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If you wish to help, you can <span class="plainlinks"><a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Collectivism_(disambiguation)&action=edit">edit the page</a></span> attached to this talk page, or visit the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Disambiguation" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Disambiguation">project page</a>, where you can join the project or contribute to the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Disambiguation" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Disambiguation">discussion</a>.<span class="metadata wpb-metadata"><span class="wpb-project">Disambiguation</span><span class="wpb-project_link">Wikipedia:WikiProject Disambiguation</span><span class="wpb-banner_name">Template:WikiProject Disambiguation</span><span class="wpb-assessment_cat">Disambiguation articles</span></span></td><td class="mbox-empty-cell"></td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr></tbody></table> <p><link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1237879475"> </p> <table id="archivebox" role="presentation" class="tmbox tmbox-notice mbox-small" style="text-align: center; padding: 1em;"> <tbody><tr> <td style="padding:0.6em 0 0.25em;"> <div style="width:100%; overflow:hidden;"><span typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Replacement_filing_cabinet.svg" class="mw-file-description"><img src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/2/2a/Replacement_filing_cabinet.svg/40px-Replacement_filing_cabinet.svg.png" decoding="async" width="40" height="40" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/2/2a/Replacement_filing_cabinet.svg/60px-Replacement_filing_cabinet.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/2/2a/Replacement_filing_cabinet.svg/80px-Replacement_filing_cabinet.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="200" data-file-height="200"/></a></span><br/><b>Archives</b></div> </td></tr><tr> <td class="plainlinks"> <table style="width: 100%; padding: 0px; text-align: center; background-color: transparent;"><tbody><tr><td><a href="/wiki/Talk:Collectivism_(disambiguation)/Archive_1" title="Talk:Collectivism (disambiguation)/Archive 1">Archive 1</a></td><td><a href="/wiki/Talk:Collectivism_(disambiguation)/Archive_2" title="Talk:Collectivism (disambiguation)/Archive 2">Archive 2</a></td><td><a href="/wiki/Talk:Collectivism_(disambiguation)/Archive_3" title="Talk:Collectivism (disambiguation)/Archive 3">Archive 3</a></td></tr></tbody></table> </td> </tr><tr><td style="padding-bottom:11px"><div class="mw-inputbox-centered" style=""><form name="searchbox" class="searchbox mw-inputbox-form" action="/wiki/Special:Search"><div class="cdx-text-input"><input class="mw-inputbox-input mw-searchInput searchboxInput cdx-text-input__input" name="search" placeholder="" size="22" dir="ltr"/></div><input type="hidden" value="Talk:Collectivism (disambiguation)/" name="prefix"/><br/><input type="submit" name="fulltext" value="Search archives" class="cdx-button"/><input type="hidden" value="Search" name="fulltext"/></form></div> </td></tr><tr><td style="padding:0px 10px; font-size:11.9px;"> <hr/> This page has archives. Sections older than <b>180 days</b> may be automatically archived by <span class="nowraplinks"><a href="/wiki/User:Lowercase_sigmabot_III" title="User:Lowercase sigmabot III">Lowercase sigmabot III</a></span> when more than 3 sections are present.</td></tr> </tbody></table> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Scope" data-mw-thread-id="h-Scope-2022-05-12T15:37:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Scope-2022-05-12T15:37:00.000Z"></span>Scope<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Scope-2022-05-12T15:37:00.000Z"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Talk:Collectivism_(disambiguation)&action=edit&section=1" title="Edit section: Scope"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Czar-2022-05-12T15:37:00.000Z-Scope"></span>This article has been in poor shape for a long time (see <a href="/wiki/Talk:Collectivism/Archive_3#Dab?" class="mw-redirect" title="Talk:Collectivism/Archive 3">Talk:Collectivism/Archive 3#Dab?</a> for example). I finally sat down to read through that student's expansion and much of it has little to do with a common conception of "collectivism"—the article instead lists different ways the term "collectivism" is invoked in a slew of academic articles. Little of it coheres to an encyclopedic topic. My take is that it still makes the most sense to cover <a href="/wiki/Collectivism_and_individualism" class="mw-redirect" title="Collectivism and individualism">collectivism and individualism</a> within the <a href="/wiki/Social_organization" title="Social organization">social organization</a> article and to make "collectivism" into a disambiguation page for the variety of meanings ascribed to the term. <span style="background:#F3F3F3; padding:3px 9px 4px"><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Czar" title="User talk:Czar"><span style="font:bold small-caps 1.2em sans-serif;color:#871E8D">czar</span></a></span> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Collectivism_(disambiguation)#c-Czar-2022-05-12T15:37:00.000Z-Scope" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:37, 12 May 2022 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Czar-2022-05-12T15:37:00.000Z-Scope"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Czar-2022-05-12T15:37:00.000Z-Scope"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-W1tchkr4ft_00-2022-05-30T16:53:00.000Z-Czar-2022-05-12T15:37:00.000Z"></span>I agree. I don't see a lot of use or reason for this article as is. Even I think re-writing it under it's current premise wouldn't be so useful.<a href="/wiki/User:W1tchkr4ft_00" title="User:W1tchkr4ft 00"><span style="background-color: black; color: white"><b>SP00KY</b></span></a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:W1tchkr4ft_00" title="User talk:W1tchkr4ft 00"><span style="background-color: black; color: white"><i><b>talk</b></i></span></a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Collectivism_(disambiguation)#c-W1tchkr4ft_00-2022-05-30T16:53:00.000Z-Czar-2022-05-12T15:37:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:53, 30 May 2022 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-W1tchkr4ft_00-2022-05-30T16:53:00.000Z-Czar-2022-05-12T15:37:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-W1tchkr4ft_00-2022-05-30T16:53:00.000Z-Czar-2022-05-12T15:37:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Czar-2022-06-12T03:47:00.000Z-W1tchkr4ft_00-2022-05-30T16:53:00.000Z"></span><span class="nowrap"><span typeof="mw:File"><span><img alt="" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/f/fb/Yes_check.svg/18px-Yes_check.svg.png" decoding="async" width="18" height="18" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/f/fb/Yes_check.svg/27px-Yes_check.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/f/fb/Yes_check.svg/36px-Yes_check.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="600" data-file-height="600"/></span></span><b> Done</b></span> All should feel free to expand further with other definitions and at <a href="/wiki/Collectivism_and_individualism" class="mw-redirect" title="Collectivism and individualism">collectivism and individualism</a>. <span style="background:#F3F3F3; padding:3px 9px 4px"><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Czar" title="User talk:Czar"><span style="font:bold small-caps 1.2em sans-serif;color:#871E8D">czar</span></a></span> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Collectivism_(disambiguation)#c-Czar-2022-06-12T03:47:00.000Z-W1tchkr4ft_00-2022-05-30T16:53:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">03:47, 12 June 2022 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Czar-2022-06-12T03:47:00.000Z-W1tchkr4ft_00-2022-05-30T16:53:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Czar-2022-06-12T03:47:00.000Z-W1tchkr4ft_00-2022-05-30T16:53:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Certes-2022-06-13T13:54:00.000Z-Czar-2022-06-12T03:47:00.000Z"></span>Also, please feel free to <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:FIXDABLINKS" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:FIXDABLINKS">fix</a> the <a href="/wiki/Special:WhatLinksHere/Collectivism" title="Special:WhatLinksHere/Collectivism">1,582 articles</a> which now link to the new disambiguation page. <a href="/wiki/User:Certes" title="User:Certes">Certes</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Certes" title="User talk:Certes">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Collectivism_(disambiguation)#c-Certes-2022-06-13T13:54:00.000Z-Czar-2022-06-12T03:47:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">13:54, 13 June 2022 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Certes-2022-06-13T13:54:00.000Z-Czar-2022-06-12T03:47:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Certes-2022-06-13T13:54:00.000Z-Czar-2022-06-12T03:47:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="POV" data-mw-thread-id="h-POV-2022-05-28T16:25:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-POV-2022-05-28T16:25:00.000Z"></span>POV<span data-mw-comment-end="h-POV-2022-05-28T16:25:00.000Z"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Talk:Collectivism_(disambiguation)&action=edit&section=2" title="Edit section: POV"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-79.100.144.23-2022-05-28T16:25:00.000Z-POV"></span>The very definition immediately presupposes with its wordings that individualism is only right and good and collectivism is only wrong and bad - individuals 'realise' the truth, while collectivists don't get it, can't do what individualists can, etc. This seems like crude ideology. A single citation is not a justification for this. It should be possible to define these things without obvious value judgements.--<a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/79.100.144.23" title="Special:Contributions/79.100.144.23">79.100.144.23</a> (<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:79.100.144.23&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User talk:79.100.144.23 (page does not exist)">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Collectivism_(disambiguation)#c-79.100.144.23-2022-05-28T16:25:00.000Z-POV" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:25, 28 May 2022 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-79.100.144.23-2022-05-28T16:25:00.000Z-POV"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-79.100.144.23-2022-05-28T16:25:00.000Z-POV"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-W1tchkr4ft_00-2022-05-30T16:45:00.000Z-79.100.144.23-2022-05-28T16:25:00.000Z"></span>And on top of being imprecise the lead is not even concise. It would be nice if you or somebody else who feels they have the ability to write something better than this to do so. <a href="/wiki/User:W1tchkr4ft_00" title="User:W1tchkr4ft 00"><span style="background-color: black; color: white"><b>SP00KY</b></span></a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:W1tchkr4ft_00" title="User talk:W1tchkr4ft 00"><span style="background-color: black; color: white"><i><b>talk</b></i></span></a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Collectivism_(disambiguation)#c-W1tchkr4ft_00-2022-05-30T16:45:00.000Z-79.100.144.23-2022-05-28T16:25:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:45, 30 May 2022 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-W1tchkr4ft_00-2022-05-30T16:45:00.000Z-79.100.144.23-2022-05-28T16:25:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-W1tchkr4ft_00-2022-05-30T16:45:00.000Z-79.100.144.23-2022-05-28T16:25:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Bias" data-mw-thread-id="h-Bias-2022-05-28T22:59:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Bias-2022-05-28T22:59:00.000Z"></span>Bias<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Bias-2022-05-28T22:59:00.000Z"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Talk:Collectivism_(disambiguation)&action=edit&section=3" title="Edit section: Bias"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-207.53.252.145-2022-05-28T22:59:00.000Z-Bias"></span>This definition is incredibly biased, as the point entitled "POV" has already observed. <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/207.53.252.145" title="Special:Contributions/207.53.252.145">207.53.252.145</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:207.53.252.145" title="User talk:207.53.252.145">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Collectivism_(disambiguation)#c-207.53.252.145-2022-05-28T22:59:00.000Z-Bias" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:59, 28 May 2022 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-207.53.252.145-2022-05-28T22:59:00.000Z-Bias"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-207.53.252.145-2022-05-28T22:59:00.000Z-Bias"></span> </p>    </div><noscript><img src="https://login.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:CentralAutoLogin/start?type=1x1" alt="" width="1" height="1" style="border: none; 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