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<span class="vector-toc-numb">2</span> <span>Needs more extensive summary</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">1 comment</span> <button aria-controls="toc-Needs_more_extensive_summary-sublist" class="cdx-button cdx-button--weight-quiet cdx-button--icon-only vector-toc-toggle"> <span class="vector-icon mw-ui-icon-wikimedia-expand"></span> <span>Toggle Needs more extensive summary subsection</span> </button> <ul id="toc-Needs_more_extensive_summary-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> <li id="toc-Damasio_on_Descartes'_Error" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-2"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Damasio_on_Descartes'_Error"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">2.1</span> <span>Damasio on Descartes' Error</span> </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Damasio_on_Descartes'_Error-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Ryle_on_Descartes'_Error" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-2"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Ryle_on_Descartes'_Error"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">2.2</span> <span>Ryle on Descartes' Error</span> </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Ryle_on_Descartes'_Error-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Stewart_on_Descartes'_Error" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-2"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Stewart_on_Descartes'_Error"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">2.3</span> <span>Stewart on Descartes' Error</span> </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Stewart_on_Descartes'_Error-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-God" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#God"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">3</span> <span>God</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">1 comment</span> <ul id="toc-God-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Soul" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Soul"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">4</span> <span>Soul</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">2 comments</span> <ul id="toc-Soul-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-morale_par_provision" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#morale_par_provision"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">5</span> <span>morale par provision</span> </div> </a> <ul id="toc-morale_par_provision-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-The_scientific_method" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#The_scientific_method"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">6</span> <span>The scientific method</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">1 comment</span> <ul id="toc-The_scientific_method-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Murder?" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Murder?"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">7</span> <span>Murder?</span> </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Murder?-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-physics" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#physics"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">8</span> <span>physics</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">3 comments</span> <ul id="toc-physics-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Cleanup" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Cleanup"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">9</span> <span>Cleanup</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">1 comment</span> <ul id="toc-Cleanup-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Fly" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Fly"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">10</span> <span>Fly</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">3 comments</span> <ul id="toc-Fly-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Translation_of_the_Rene_Descartes_Murder_Page" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Translation_of_the_Rene_Descartes_Murder_Page"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">11</span> <span>Translation of the Rene Descartes Murder Page</span> </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Translation_of_the_Rene_Descartes_Murder_Page-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Mercenary?" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Mercenary?"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">12</span> <span>Mercenary?</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">4 comments</span> <ul id="toc-Mercenary?-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Cleanup_and_reorganization" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Cleanup_and_reorganization"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">13</span> <span>Cleanup and reorganization</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">3 comments</span> <ul id="toc-Cleanup_and_reorganization-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Jesuit_Collège_Royal_Henry-Le-Grand_at_La_Flèche." class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Jesuit_Collège_Royal_Henry-Le-Grand_at_La_Flèche."> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">14</span> <span>Jesuit Collège Royal Henry-Le-Grand at La Flèche.</span> </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Jesuit_Collège_Royal_Henry-Le-Grand_at_La_Flèche.-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-a_story" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#a_story"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">15</span> <span>a story</span> </div> </a> <ul id="toc-a_story-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-math" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#math"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">16</span> <span>math</span> </div> </a> <ul id="toc-math-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Nature_and_numbers" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Nature_and_numbers"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">17</span> <span>Nature and numbers</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">1 comment</span> <ul id="toc-Nature_and_numbers-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Erroneous_Quotation" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Erroneous_Quotation"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">18</span> <span>Erroneous Quotation</span> </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Erroneous_Quotation-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Trivia_item_removed." class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Trivia_item_removed."> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">19</span> <span>Trivia item removed.</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">1 comment</span> <ul id="toc-Trivia_item_removed.-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-The_date_of_Descartes'_entry_at_La_Flèche" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#The_date_of_Descartes'_entry_at_La_Flèche"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">20</span> <span>The date of Descartes' entry at La Flèche</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">1 comment</span> <ul id="toc-The_date_of_Descartes'_entry_at_La_Flèche-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Request_clarification_on_characterization_of_(Aczel,_2005)" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Request_clarification_on_characterization_of_(Aczel,_2005)"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">21</span> <span>Request clarification on characterization of (Aczel, 2005)</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">2 comments</span> <ul id="toc-Request_clarification_on_characterization_of_(Aczel,_2005)-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Descartes’_entry_into_La_Flèche" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" 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aria-labelledby='ooui-php-2' class='oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-toggleWidget oo-ui-toggleWidget-off oo-ui-toggleSwitchWidget' data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ToggleSwitchWidget","href":"\/w\/index.php?title=Talk:Ren%C3%A9_Descartes&diff=prev&oldid=81931213&diff-type=inline","value":false,"title":"Switches between inline format and two-column format"}'><span class='oo-ui-toggleSwitchWidget-glow'></span><a href='/w/index.php?title=Talk:Ren%C3%A9_Descartes&diff=prev&oldid=81931213&diff-type=inline'><span class='oo-ui-toggleSwitchWidget-grip'></span></a></div></div></div></div></div></div><table class="diff diff-type-table diff-contentalign-left diff-editfont-monospace" data-mw="interface"> <col class="diff-marker" /> <col class="diff-content" /> <col class="diff-marker" /> <col class="diff-content" /> <tr class="diff-title" lang="en"> <td colspan="2" class="diff-otitle diff-side-deleted"><div id="mw-diff-otitle1"><strong><a href="/w/index.php?title=Talk:Ren%C3%A9_Descartes&oldid=81929957" title="Talk:René Descartes">Revision as of 03:41, 17 October 2006</a> <span class="mw-diff-edit"><a href="/w/index.php?title=Talk:Ren%C3%A9_Descartes&action=edit&oldid=81929957" title="Talk:René Descartes">edit</a></span><span class="mw-diff-timestamp" data-timestamp="2006-10-17T03:41:28Z"></span></strong></div><div id="mw-diff-otitle2"><a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/74.99.38.7" class="mw-userlink mw-anonuserlink" title="Special:Contributions/74.99.38.7" data-mw-revid="81929957"><bdi>74.99.38.7</bdi></a> <span class="mw-usertoollinks">(<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:74.99.38.7&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new mw-usertoollinks-talk" title="User talk:74.99.38.7 (page does not exist)">talk</a>)</span><div class="mw-diff-usermetadata"></div></div><div id="mw-diff-otitle3"> <span class="comment comment--without-parentheses">Animals as soulless machines</span></div><div id="mw-diff-otitle5"></div><div id="mw-diff-otitle4"><a href="/w/index.php?title=Talk:Ren%C3%A9_Descartes&diff=prev&oldid=81929957" title="Talk:René Descartes" id="differences-prevlink">← Previous edit</a></div></td> <td colspan="2" class="diff-ntitle diff-side-added"><div id="mw-diff-ntitle1"><strong><a href="/w/index.php?title=Talk:Ren%C3%A9_Descartes&oldid=81931213" title="Talk:René Descartes">Revision as of 03:50, 17 October 2006</a> <span class="mw-diff-edit"><a href="/w/index.php?title=Talk:Ren%C3%A9_Descartes&action=edit&oldid=81931213" title="Talk:René Descartes">edit</a></span><span class="mw-diff-timestamp" data-timestamp="2006-10-17T03:50:35Z"></span> <span class="mw-diff-undo"><a href="/w/index.php?title=Talk:Ren%C3%A9_Descartes&action=edit&undoafter=81929957&undo=81931213" title=""Undo" reverts this edit and opens the edit form in preview mode. It allows adding a reason in the summary.">undo</a></span></strong></div><div id="mw-diff-ntitle2"><a href="/wiki/User:R_Lee_E" class="mw-userlink" title="User:R Lee E" data-mw-revid="81931213"><bdi>R Lee E</bdi></a> <span class="mw-usertoollinks">(<a href="/wiki/User_talk:R_Lee_E" class="mw-usertoollinks-talk" title="User talk:R Lee E">talk</a> | <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/R_Lee_E" class="mw-usertoollinks-contribs" title="Special:Contributions/R Lee E">contribs</a>)</span><div class="mw-diff-usermetadata"><div class="mw-diff-userroles"></div><div class="mw-diff-usereditcount"><span>1,264</span> edits</div></div></div><div id="mw-diff-ntitle3"> <span class="comment comment--without-parentheses"><span class="autocomment"><a href="#Animals_as_soulless_machines">→<bdi dir="ltr">Animals as soulless machines</bdi></a></span></span></div><div id="mw-diff-ntitle5"></div><div id="mw-diff-ntitle4"><a href="/w/index.php?title=Talk:Ren%C3%A9_Descartes&diff=next&oldid=81931213" title="Talk:René Descartes" id="differences-nextlink">Next edit →</a></div></td> </tr><tr> <td colspan="2" class="diff-lineno">Line 270:</td> <td colspan="2" class="diff-lineno">Line 270:</td> </tr> <tr> <td class="diff-marker"></td> <td class="diff-context diff-side-deleted"><div>This article is seriously incomplete. Descartes (along with others at the time) believed that animals did not have souls and therefore were beast machines. He thought that not having a soul meant no higher mental experiences. So when a dog had its paws nailed to a board and it yelped, it was not actually in pain, just exhibiting the external mechanical response that we perceive to be signs of pain. See Nicolaas Rupke, "Vivisection in Historical Perspective", London, Routledge, 1990.</div></td> <td class="diff-marker"></td> <td class="diff-context diff-side-added"><div>This article is seriously incomplete. Descartes (along with others at the time) believed that animals did not have souls and therefore were beast machines. He thought that not having a soul meant no higher mental experiences. So when a dog had its paws nailed to a board and it yelped, it was not actually in pain, just exhibiting the external mechanical response that we perceive to be signs of pain. See Nicolaas Rupke, "Vivisection in Historical Perspective", London, Routledge, 1990.</div></td> </tr> <tr> <td class="diff-marker"></td> <td class="diff-context diff-side-deleted"><div>I'm not a vegetarian dog-loving, cruelty hating hippy who is complaining that Descartes needs to be portrayed as an ass. I'm just saying that it was an important part of Descartes' work. -elliot</div></td> <td class="diff-marker"></td> <td class="diff-context diff-side-added"><div>I'm not a vegetarian dog-loving, cruelty hating hippy who is complaining that Descartes needs to be portrayed as an ass. I'm just saying that it was an important part of Descartes' work. -elliot</div></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" class="diff-empty diff-side-deleted"></td> <td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td> <td class="diff-addedline diff-side-added"><br /></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" class="diff-empty diff-side-deleted"></td> <td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td> <td class="diff-addedline diff-side-added"><br /></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" class="diff-empty diff-side-deleted"></td> <td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td> <td class="diff-addedline diff-side-added"><div>Yeah. I don't hate cruelty either. - [[User:R_Lee_E|R_Lee_E]] [[Image:Flag of the United States.svg|25px]] ([http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:R_Lee_E talk], [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/R_Lee_E contribs]) 03:50, 17 October 2006 (UTC)</div></td> </tr> </table><hr class='diff-hr' id='mw-oldid' /> <h2 class='diff-currentversion-title'>Revision as of 03:50, 17 October 2006</h2> <div class="mw-content-ltr mw-parser-output" lang="en" dir="ltr"><p>~<style data-mw-deduplicate="TemplateStyles:r1237879475">.mw-parser-output .tmbox{margin:4px 0;border-collapse:collapse;border:1px solid #c0c090;background-color:#f8eaba;box-sizing:border-box}.mw-parser-output .tmbox.mbox-small{font-size:88%;line-height:1.25em}.mw-parser-output .tmbox-speedy{border:2px solid #b32424;background-color:#fee7e6}.mw-parser-output .tmbox-delete{border:2px solid #b32424}.mw-parser-output .tmbox-content{border:2px solid #f28500}.mw-parser-output .tmbox-style{border:2px solid #fc3}.mw-parser-output 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</p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Needs_more_extensive_summary" data-mw-thread-id="h-Needs_more_extensive_summary-2006-01-20T21:46:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Needs_more_extensive_summary-2006-01-20T21:46:00.000Z"></span>Needs more extensive summary<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Needs_more_extensive_summary-2006-01-20T21:46:00.000Z"></span></h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p>I have only taken a glance at this article and I can already see that it is inadequate. Descartes is considered one of the founders of modern philosophy. He is recognized as of equal (or more) importance than Kant. This warrents an extensive in depth overview of his most fundamental ideas. </p><p>Most importantly, there should be an in depth section regarding Cartesian dualism (i.e. the clear demarcation of mind and body as separate from each other). This has had a profound influence on modern and contemporary philosophy. Indeed, much contemporary philosophy is staged with respect to fundamental cartesian dualism. There should, then, be an extensive section overviewing this, written perhaps by a student of philosophy who has studied Descartes thoroughly. </p><p><br/> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading3"><h3 id="Damasio_on_Descartes'_Error" data-mw-thread-id="h-Damasio_on_Descartes'_Error-Needs_more_extensive_summary"><span id="Damasio_on_Descartes.27_Error"></span><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Damasio_on_Descartes'_Error-Needs_more_extensive_summary"></span>Damasio on Descartes' Error<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Damasio_on_Descartes'_Error-Needs_more_extensive_summary"></span></h3></div> <p>Kindly see <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Descartes%27_Error#Damasio_on_Descartes_Error">Damasio on Descartes<i> Error</i></a><i>. </i> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading3"><h3 id="Ryle_on_Descartes'_Error" data-mw-thread-id="h-Ryle_on_Descartes'_Error-Needs_more_extensive_summary"><span id="Ryle_on_Descartes.27_Error"></span><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Ryle_on_Descartes'_Error-Needs_more_extensive_summary"></span>Ryle on Descartes' Error<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Ryle_on_Descartes'_Error-Needs_more_extensive_summary"></span></h3></div> <p>Kindly see <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Descartes%27_Error#Ryle_on_Descartes_Error">Ryle on Descartes' Error</a>. </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading3"><h3 id="Stewart_on_Descartes'_Error" data-mw-thread-id="h-Stewart_on_Descartes'_Error-Needs_more_extensive_summary-2006-01-20T21:46:00.000Z"><span id="Stewart_on_Descartes.27_Error"></span><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Stewart_on_Descartes'_Error-Needs_more_extensive_summary-2006-01-20T21:46:00.000Z"></span>Stewart on Descartes' Error<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Stewart_on_Descartes'_Error-Needs_more_extensive_summary-2006-01-20T21:46:00.000Z"></span></h3></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Yesselman-2006-01-20T21:46:00.000Z-Stewart_on_Descartes'_Error"></span>Kindly see <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Descartes%27_Error#Stewart_on_Descartes.27_Error">Stewart on Descartes' Error</a>. </p><p><br/> <a href="/wiki/User:Yesselman" title="User:Yesselman">Yesselman</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Ren%C3%A9_Descartes#c-Yesselman-2006-01-20T21:46:00.000Z-Stewart_on_Descartes'_Error" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:46, 20 January 2006 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Yesselman-2006-01-20T21:46:00.000Z-Stewart_on_Descartes'_Error"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Yesselman-2006-01-20T21:46:00.000Z-Stewart_on_Descartes'_Error"></span> </p><p><br/> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="God" data-mw-thread-id="h-God-2005-11-12T21:05:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-God-2005-11-12T21:05:00.000Z"></span>God<span data-mw-comment-end="h-God-2005-11-12T21:05:00.000Z"></span></h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Revised-2005-11-12T21:05:00.000Z-God"></span>In the section on Significance, the paragraph stating how Descartes attempts to prove the existence of God ends with "Why must any God be benevolent? Why can't any God want to deceive him/us?" Is this a quote or somesuch from Descartes? If so, could someone more knowledgeable than I please include where it came from? If not, I think it is fairly POV, and should be at the very least deitalicized and rewritten as something like "Some people since, however, feel that Descartes fails to fully explain why God must be benevolent" or something of the like. If no one can bring up a reason not to, I will do so in a week or so. <a href="/wiki/User:Whooper" title="User:Whooper">Whooper</a> 06:44, 17 Sep 2004 (UTC) </p> <dl><dd>to answer your question, Descartes is writing this to religious figures of the time, meaning he cant very well say that God doesnt exist or is anything but benevolent. and also by God he means the idea of God that they all have... which is a perfect being that can never be evil, and since lying to descartes about his senses would be considered evil, it cant be done. God is a perfectly not-evil being. so thats why he doesnt explain why god has benevolent, its just understood. <a href="/wiki/User:Rabiddog2420" title="User:Rabiddog2420">rabiddog2420</a> 9:21, 13 Oct 2006 (UTC)</dd></dl> <p>I've been told that a more accurant translation is "I doubt, therefore, I am." Can anyone support or refute this? <a href="/wiki/User:Kingturtle" title="User:Kingturtle">Kingturtle</a> 02:38 Apr 9, 2003 (UTC) </p> <dl><dd><i>cogito</i> could be translated <i>I think</i>, <i>I deliberate</i>, <i>I reflect</i>, <i>I ponder</i>, <i>I consider</i>, <i>I imagine</i>, or any of a number of synonyms, but I think the person translating it as <i>I doubt</i> would be more likely to be trying to make a personal point rather than to be trying to render the phrase with exquisite accuracy... <i>I doubt</i> would correspond directly with <i>dubito</i>. -- <a href="/wiki/User:Someone_else" title="User:Someone else">Someone else</a> 02:57 Apr 9, 2003 (UTC)</dd></dl> <p>Someone suggested retitling this to <a href="/wiki/Ren%C3%A9_Descartes" title="René Descartes">René Descartes</a> on <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Votes_for_deletion" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:Votes for deletion">wikipedia:votes for deletion</a>. </p> <dl><dd>Descartes actually wrote it in French (matching the French title of his Discourse de la methode). Je pense donc je suis. <i>I think</i> is pretty good for <i>je pense</i>. Translating from Latin is quite another matter - you have to work out first of all how it went into Latin to begin with.</dd></dl> <dl><dd>I just deleted the rather jejune joke with which the article ended. If anyone wants to restore it, though, we can discuss that. Here it is:</dd> <dd>--<a href="/wiki/User:Christofurio" title="User:Christofurio">Christofurio</a> 00:06, May 4, 2004 (UTC)</dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd>Descartes and Humor</dd> <dd>Descartes' saying, cogito ergo sum (I think, therefore I am), has been so commonly repeated that an oft-repeated joke based on it has arisen:</dd></dl></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd>Descartes walks into a bar. The bartender asks if he'd like a beer, and he finishes it. The bartender asks if he would like another. He says, "I think not" and disappears.</dd></dl></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd>That's a good joke, but you were right in deciding that it doesn't have a place in the article.--<a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Revised&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Revised (page does not exist)">Revised</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Ren%C3%A9_Descartes#c-Revised-2005-11-12T21:05:00.000Z-God" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:05, 12 November 2005 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Revised-2005-11-12T21:05:00.000Z-God"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Revised-2005-11-12T21:05:00.000Z-God"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Soul" data-mw-thread-id="h-Soul-2006-03-10T19:10:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Soul-2006-03-10T19:10:00.000Z"></span>Soul<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Soul-2006-03-10T19:10:00.000Z"></span></h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Goclenius-2006-03-10T19:10:00.000Z-Soul"></span>From a random web page: </p> <dl><dd><dl><dd>Descartes' argument was that only beings with a soul can possess consciousness or feel pain. Furthermore, he argued that the ultimate test for if someone possesses a soul is whether or not they have the capacity for rational thought. He also argued that the ultimate test for the capacity for rational thought is whether or not an individual had the potential to understand a written language. The widely accepted belief at the time was that black people did not have the mental capacity to learn to read or write. (Although some African blacks had been writing in Arabic centuries earlier, this fact was unknown to the Europeans at the time.) Therefore, Descartes and many of his contemporaries concluded that black people did not possess a soul, were not the descendants of Adam and Eve, and did not have the capacity to feel pain, suffering, love, or a desire to live.</dd></dl></dd></dl> <p>Correct or not? <a href="/wiki/User:Orthogonal" title="User:Orthogonal">-- orthogonal</a> 17:50, 10 Sep 2004 (UTC) </p> <dl><dd>There’s no evidence that I know of for Descartes’ having believed any such thing. <a href="/wiki/User:Goclenius" title="User:Goclenius">Goclenius</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Ren%C3%A9_Descartes#c-Goclenius-2006-03-10T19:10:00.000Z-Soul" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:10, 10 March 2006 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Goclenius-2006-03-10T19:10:00.000Z-Soul"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Goclenius-2006-03-10T19:10:00.000Z-Soul"></span></dd></dl> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-137.82.40.16-2006-10-10T23:54:00.000Z-Soul"></span>I don't think that there is any evidence that Descartes thought this. The Meditations are meant to be done first person as everyone knows, so determining whether others are thinking is not what is intended by the cogito. "You think, therefore you exist" is not resistant to doubt like "I think, therefore I am" is. Anyway, there is evidence in the Meditations that Descartes actually does not believe in souls. In Meditation II he discusses what he formerly thought himself to be and considers a body, and a soul with various attributes. He argues that if we consider the soul to be some "rarified I-know-not-what, like a wind, or a fire," i.e. some mysterious entity, then it is clearly open to doubt, just as the body is. Now if we mean by a soul, just a mind, something that thinks, broadly construed, then that does exist and is not open to doubt. Thinking under this definition of a soul, is not an indication of a soul, but it is a soul. Further, Descartes argues that the mind can exist without the body. So the mind can live on beyond the physical death, as Descartes notes in Meditation VI. As for the bit about non-europeans, I am not sure if Descartes expresses this anywhere. Either way, it is not central to his thinking. </p> <dl><dd>I <i>think</i> he may have thought that about animals, but I've never come across anything suggesting he thought that about other humans.<a href="/w/index.php?title=User:137.82.40.16&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:137.82.40.16 (page does not exist)">137.82.40.16</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Ren%C3%A9_Descartes#c-137.82.40.16-2006-10-10T23:54:00.000Z-Soul" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:54, 10 October 2006 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-137.82.40.16-2006-10-10T23:54:00.000Z-Soul"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-137.82.40.16-2006-10-10T23:54:00.000Z-Soul"></span></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="morale_par_provision" data-mw-thread-id="h-morale_par_provision"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-morale_par_provision"></span>morale par provision<span data-mw-comment-end="h-morale_par_provision"></span></h2></div> <p>Someone please add a chapter on "morale par provision" aka provisional moral code </p> <dl><dd>Maybe <i>you</i> could help us do just that. :) <a href="/wiki/User:Func" title="User:Func"><tt>func</tt></a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Func" title="User talk:Func"><tt>(talk)</tt></a> 21:26, 12 Apr 2005 (UTC)</dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="The_scientific_method" data-mw-thread-id="h-The_scientific_method-2005-05-11T08:02:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-The_scientific_method-2005-05-11T08:02:00.000Z"></span>The scientific method<span data-mw-comment-end="h-The_scientific_method-2005-05-11T08:02:00.000Z"></span></h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-ChrisSteinbach-2005-05-11T08:02:00.000Z-The_scientific_method"></span>Some material has been added to the History section if the <a href="/wiki/Scientific_method" title="Scientific method">scientific method</a> article concerning Descartes. If someone here has a chance to look over it I would be gateful. <a href="/wiki/User:ChrisSteinbach" title="User:ChrisSteinbach">Chris</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Ren%C3%A9_Descartes#c-ChrisSteinbach-2005-05-11T08:02:00.000Z-The_scientific_method" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">08:02, 11 May 2005 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-ChrisSteinbach-2005-05-11T08:02:00.000Z-The_scientific_method"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-ChrisSteinbach-2005-05-11T08:02:00.000Z-The_scientific_method"></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Murder?" data-mw-thread-id="h-Murder?"><span id="Murder.3F"></span><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Murder?"></span>Murder?<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Murder?"></span></h2></div> <p>I don't speak Spanish, but here's one source of the arsenic poisoning bit: <a rel="nofollow" class="external free" href="http://www.muyinteresante.es/canales/muy_esp/grandes_misterios/muertes_sospe1.htm">http://www.muyinteresante.es/canales/muy_esp/grandes_misterios/muertes_sospe1.htm</a> </p><p>I can translate this: </p><p>Murder Suspects </p><p>Could Descartes be murdered out? And the Duchess of Dawn? What intrigues hide after the murder of Rudolf of Hapsburg, Napolean or Kennedy? History is full of mysterious cases that still await solution. </p><p><br/> I think it is implying that Renė was murdered. </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="physics" data-mw-thread-id="h-physics-2005-08-10T15:05:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-physics-2005-08-10T15:05:00.000Z"></span>physics<span data-mw-comment-end="h-physics-2005-08-10T15:05:00.000Z"></span></h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Michael_Hardy-2005-08-10T15:05:00.000Z-physics"></span>Why doesn't the article mention that Descartes proposed a theory of physics, later discredited? <a href="/wiki/User:Michael_Hardy" title="User:Michael Hardy">Michael Hardy</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Ren%C3%A9_Descartes#c-Michael_Hardy-2005-08-10T15:05:00.000Z-physics" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:05, 10 August 2005 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Michael_Hardy-2005-08-10T15:05:00.000Z-physics"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Michael_Hardy-2005-08-10T15:05:00.000Z-physics"></span> </p><p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-K_of_slinky-2005-08-22T20:15:00.000Z-physics"></span>Or anything about his work in optics (which is still used)? Why not mention his accomplishments in physics as well?? </p><p><a href="/wiki/User:K_of_slinky" title="User:K of slinky">K of Slinky</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Ren%C3%A9_Descartes#c-K_of_slinky-2005-08-22T20:15:00.000Z-physics" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:15, 22 August 2005 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-K_of_slinky-2005-08-22T20:15:00.000Z-physics"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-K_of_slinky-2005-08-22T20:15:00.000Z-physics"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Cdyson37-2005-08-31T13:32:00.000Z-K_of_slinky-2005-08-22T20:15:00.000Z"></span>Have added an example of his contributions to optics, something we can all relate to! Remembered it from my physics textbook. <a href="/wiki/User:Cdyson37" title="User:Cdyson37">Cdyson37</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Ren%C3%A9_Descartes#c-Cdyson37-2005-08-31T13:32:00.000Z-K_of_slinky-2005-08-22T20:15:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">13:32, 31 August 2005 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Cdyson37-2005-08-31T13:32:00.000Z-K_of_slinky-2005-08-22T20:15:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Cdyson37-2005-08-31T13:32:00.000Z-K_of_slinky-2005-08-22T20:15:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl> <p><br/> what does spainish have to do with anything its all french to me...... </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Cleanup" data-mw-thread-id="h-Cleanup-2005-11-12T21:15:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Cleanup-2005-11-12T21:15:00.000Z"></span>Cleanup<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Cleanup-2005-11-12T21:15:00.000Z"></span></h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Revised-2005-11-12T21:15:00.000Z-Cleanup"></span>The article is rather messy. The "Descartes' Life" section coul especially use organizing. The paragraphs seem to be composed of sentences that are dates and occurences. Perhaps the section should be split into smaller sections, like 'family life', 'education' etc. etc. </p><p>I wish I could help, but I have little time to dedicate to Wikipedia currently. </p><p><br/> </p> <dl><dd>I wholeheartedly agree with you. Especially the section on his writings in his biography, which is painful to read. Perhaps you could slim down that section and add all of those writings into the Writings By Descartes section at the end ot he article That said, I think that the signifigance section is a nice part of the article and has some useful information. --<a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Revised&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Revised (page does not exist)">Revised</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Ren%C3%A9_Descartes#c-Revised-2005-11-12T21:15:00.000Z-Cleanup" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:15, 12 November 2005 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Revised-2005-11-12T21:15:00.000Z-Cleanup"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Revised-2005-11-12T21:15:00.000Z-Cleanup"></span></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Fly" data-mw-thread-id="h-Fly-2005-09-15T04:55:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Fly-2005-09-15T04:55:00.000Z"></span>Fly<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Fly-2005-09-15T04:55:00.000Z"></span></h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Pharos-2005-09-15T04:55:00.000Z-Fly"></span>From <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Science" title="Wikipedia:Reference desk/Science">Wikipedia:Reference desk/Science</a>: </p> <ul><li><a href="/wiki/Ren%C3%A9_Descartes" title="René Descartes">René Descartes</a> actually got the idea for his <a href="/wiki/Cartesian_coordinate_system" title="Cartesian coordinate system">Cartesian coordinate system</a> while lying down and looking up to a fly crawling across his ceiling, and realized that he could define the position of the fly by just two numbers: the distances of the fly from each of the two nearby walls.-- <a href="/wiki/User:Pharos" title="User:Pharos">Pharos</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Ren%C3%A9_Descartes#c-Pharos-2005-09-15T04:55:00.000Z-Fly" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">04:55, 15 September 2005 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Pharos-2005-09-15T04:55:00.000Z-Fly"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Pharos-2005-09-15T04:55:00.000Z-Fly"></span></li></ul> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Cdyson37-2005-09-24T11:00:00.000Z-Fly"></span>Can anyone confirm that this is true, and, if so, add to the article. -- <a href="/wiki/User:ALoan" title="User:ALoan">ALoan</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:ALoan" title="User talk:ALoan">(Talk)</a> </p> <ul><li>I've certainly heard it before, but it might be a sort of urban myth among mathematicians. If I get the time, I'll look René up in Men Of Mathematics and see if there's any source on that <a href="/wiki/User:Cdyson37" title="User:Cdyson37">Cdyson37</a> | <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Cdyson37" title="User talk:Cdyson37">(Talk)</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Ren%C3%A9_Descartes#c-Cdyson37-2005-09-24T11:00:00.000Z-Fly" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">11:00, 24 September 2005 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Cdyson37-2005-09-24T11:00:00.000Z-Fly"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Cdyson37-2005-09-24T11:00:00.000Z-Fly"></span></li></ul> <dl><dd><dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Banno-2005-09-24T21:45:00.000Z-Cdyson37-2005-09-24T11:00:00.000Z"></span>It certainly is a common story, so if it cannot be verified, id suggest keeping it and labelling it as apocryphal rather than deleting. <a href="/wiki/User:Banno" title="User:Banno">Banno</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Ren%C3%A9_Descartes#c-Banno-2005-09-24T21:45:00.000Z-Cdyson37-2005-09-24T11:00:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:45, 24 September 2005 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Banno-2005-09-24T21:45:00.000Z-Cdyson37-2005-09-24T11:00:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Banno-2005-09-24T21:45:00.000Z-Cdyson37-2005-09-24T11:00:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Translation_of_the_Rene_Descartes_Murder_Page" data-mw-thread-id="h-Translation_of_the_Rene_Descartes_Murder_Page"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Translation_of_the_Rene_Descartes_Murder_Page"></span>Translation of the Rene Descartes Murder Page<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Translation_of_the_Rene_Descartes_Murder_Page"></span></h2></div> <p>If you want the page translated simply copy the URL and paste it into yahoo search. It should bring up one result, next to the link should be a translate button, click it and it will translate the text to English.. </p><p>A. Sandy </p><p>If it has a capital R in Rule it is their translation of Descartes. </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Mercenary?" data-mw-thread-id="h-Mercenary?-2005-10-12T19:22:00.000Z"><span id="Mercenary.3F"></span><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Mercenary?-2005-10-12T19:22:00.000Z"></span>Mercenary?<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Mercenary?-2005-10-12T19:22:00.000Z"></span></h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-FranksValli-2005-10-12T19:22:00.000Z-Mercenary?"></span>How is he in <a href="/wiki/Category:Mercenaries" title="Category:Mercenaries">Category:Mercenaries</a>? The article only says he intended to carry a military career. Did he go in actual combat? </p> <dl><dd><dl><dd>I'm reading a book now called "A New History of Philosophy: Volume 2 (Descartes to Searle)" and at the start of chapter 37, on Leibniz (pg. 383), it says this about Descartes: <dl><dd><dl><dd><i>Gottfried Wilhelm Leibniz was born in Leipzig in 1646, two years before the end of the Thirty Years' War in whose opening campaigns Descartes had taken part.</i></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd> <dd>So it looks like he was a mercenary! :)</dd> <dd><a href="/wiki/User:FranksValli" title="User:FranksValli">FranksValli</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Ren%C3%A9_Descartes#c-FranksValli-2005-10-12T19:22:00.000Z-Mercenary?" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:22, 12 October 2005 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-FranksValli-2005-10-12T19:22:00.000Z-Mercenary?"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-FranksValli-2005-10-12T19:22:00.000Z-Mercenary?"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl> <p><br/><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-FranksValli-2005-10-12T23:35:00.000Z-Mercenary?"></span> - respond - Descartes did not see combat, as it is written to the introduction of Discourse on Method and Meditations on First Philosophy Donald A. Cress Translator </p><p><br/> "In 1618 Descartes joined the army of Prince Maurice of Nassau as an unpaid volunteer, but apparently he never saw combat." </p><p>Cress goes on to say that Descartes seemingly wanted to see the world and travel, but I find that speculative without any citation. </p> <dl><dd><dl><dd>Interesting! Ok, do whatever you need to do I guess. Maybe mercenary is too strong of a word to use? Should we say noncombatant? <a href="/wiki/User:FranksValli" title="User:FranksValli">FranksValli</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Ren%C3%A9_Descartes#c-FranksValli-2005-10-12T23:35:00.000Z-Mercenary?" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:35, 12 October 2005 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-FranksValli-2005-10-12T23:35:00.000Z-Mercenary?"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-FranksValli-2005-10-12T23:35:00.000Z-Mercenary?"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-FranksValli-2005-11-04T03:46:00.000Z-Mercenary?"></span>In any case, is this appropriate for the first sentence of the article? It may deserve a passing mention in the biographical sections, but are people going to take Wikipedia seriously as long as its description of Rene Descartes is "French philosopher, mathematician, and part-time mercenary." ~Lurker </p> <dl><dd>Good point, it is very awkward in that sentence. <a href="/wiki/User:FranksValli" title="User:FranksValli">FranksValli</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Ren%C3%A9_Descartes#c-FranksValli-2005-11-04T03:46:00.000Z-Mercenary?" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">03:46, 4 November 2005 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-FranksValli-2005-11-04T03:46:00.000Z-Mercenary?"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-FranksValli-2005-11-04T03:46:00.000Z-Mercenary?"></span></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Shaggorama-2006-02-07T01:26:00.000Z-FranksValli-2005-11-04T03:46:00.000Z"></span>regardless of whether or not he saw battle, a) partaking in a war does not make you a mercenary, and b) even if he were a mercenary, that fact is not particularly significant to the article. If someone were browsing through the mercenary category, I seriously doubt they would care to stumble across an article on a philosopher with one sentence relating his experiences in wartime. Because it is still a contenitous topic I will hold off on removing it, but I think it's kind of a ridiculous point to argue. <a href="/wiki/User:Shaggorama" title="User:Shaggorama">Shaggorama</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Ren%C3%A9_Descartes#c-Shaggorama-2006-02-07T01:26:00.000Z-FranksValli-2005-11-04T03:46:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:26, 7 February 2006 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Shaggorama-2006-02-07T01:26:00.000Z-FranksValli-2005-11-04T03:46:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Shaggorama-2006-02-07T01:26:00.000Z-FranksValli-2005-11-04T03:46:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd>Actually, I take that back. It doesn't look particularly contentious anymore. Removing it presently.</dd></dl></dd> <dd>Descartes' military service was primarily devoted to helping calculate trajectories for artillery.</dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Cleanup_and_reorganization" data-mw-thread-id="h-Cleanup_and_reorganization-2005-11-28T01:09:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Cleanup_and_reorganization-2005-11-28T01:09:00.000Z"></span>Cleanup and reorganization<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Cleanup_and_reorganization-2005-11-28T01:09:00.000Z"></span></h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Uriah923-2005-11-28T01:09:00.000Z-Cleanup_and_reorganization"></span>I rewrote much of the Biography section and cleaned-up the article on the whole. I took the liberty of removing the cleanup tag. I plan on adding more content to his philosophical and mathematical additions later. <a href="/wiki/User:Uriah923" title="User:Uriah923">uriah923</a><sup>(<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Uriah923" title="User talk:Uriah923">talk</a>)</sup> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Ren%C3%A9_Descartes#c-Uriah923-2005-11-28T01:09:00.000Z-Cleanup_and_reorganization" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:09, 28 November 2005 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Uriah923-2005-11-28T01:09:00.000Z-Cleanup_and_reorganization"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Uriah923-2005-11-28T01:09:00.000Z-Cleanup_and_reorganization"></span> </p><p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Jade_Knight-2005-12-09T00:23:00.000Z-Cleanup_and_reorganization"></span>Ah, maybe we overlapped - I corrected some spelling in that section. I assumed the mis-spelling within english quotations was NOT in the original John </p><p>The side information overlaps some of the article text for me. I don't know how to go about fixing this, but it's a problem. <a href="/wiki/User:Jade_Knight" title="User:Jade Knight">The Jade Knight</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Ren%C3%A9_Descartes#c-Jade_Knight-2005-12-09T00:23:00.000Z-Cleanup_and_reorganization" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:23, 9 December 2005 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Jade_Knight-2005-12-09T00:23:00.000Z-Cleanup_and_reorganization"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Jade_Knight-2005-12-09T00:23:00.000Z-Cleanup_and_reorganization"></span> </p><p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Gogino-2006-05-25T04:43:00.000Z-Cleanup_and_reorganization"></span>User 205.188.116.202 added "quoted more fairly distributed then common sense: no one thinks he needs more of it than he already has." which is not a full sentence but a fragment. I cannot access the article at <a href="/wiki/Ren%C3%A9_Descartes" title="René Descartes">René_Descartes</a>. I do not know if these things are related. I am not sure how to fix it. --<a href="/wiki/User:Gogino" title="User:Gogino">Gogino</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Ren%C3%A9_Descartes#c-Gogino-2006-05-25T04:43:00.000Z-Cleanup_and_reorganization" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">04:43, 25 May 2006 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Gogino-2006-05-25T04:43:00.000Z-Cleanup_and_reorganization"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Gogino-2006-05-25T04:43:00.000Z-Cleanup_and_reorganization"></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Jesuit_Collège_Royal_Henry-Le-Grand_at_La_Flèche." data-mw-thread-id="h-Jesuit_Collège_Royal_Henry-Le-Grand_at_La_Flèche."><span id="Jesuit_Coll.C3.A8ge_Royal_Henry-Le-Grand_at_La_Fl.C3.A8che."></span><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Jesuit_Collège_Royal_Henry-Le-Grand_at_La_Flèche."></span>Jesuit Collège Royal Henry-Le-Grand at La Flèche.<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Jesuit_Collège_Royal_Henry-Le-Grand_at_La_Flèche."></span></h2></div> <pre>"At the age of eight, he entered the Jesuit Collège Royal Henry-Le-Grand at La Flèche." </pre> <p>In a book I am reading called Descartes' Secret Notebook it says he enrolled in spring of 1607, and it repeatedly talks about him being elevenish at this time. and the article for the school says we went there from starting in 1607. so i changed it but you can change it back if it is wrong. </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="a_story" data-mw-thread-id="h-a_story"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-a_story"></span>a story<span data-mw-comment-end="h-a_story"></span></h2></div> <p>René Descartes was on a train. When asked if he'd like some coffee, he said "I think not", and vanished. </p><p><br/> There is another derivative of that joke in the article. </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="math" data-mw-thread-id="h-math"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-math"></span>math<span data-mw-comment-end="h-math"></span></h2></div> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Nature_and_numbers" data-mw-thread-id="h-Nature_and_numbers-2006-02-07T05:47:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Nature_and_numbers-2006-02-07T05:47:00.000Z"></span>Nature and numbers<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Nature_and_numbers-2006-02-07T05:47:00.000Z"></span></h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Willardo-2006-02-07T05:47:00.000Z-Nature_and_numbers"></span>In the article there is a quote of Descartes, "Nature can be defined through numbers." Does anyone know of the source for this? I can find similar things in the Meditations on First Philosophy, but not the direct line. <a href="/wiki/User:Willardo" title="User:Willardo">Willardo</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Ren%C3%A9_Descartes#c-Willardo-2006-02-07T05:47:00.000Z-Nature_and_numbers" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">05:47, 7 February 2006 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Willardo-2006-02-07T05:47:00.000Z-Nature_and_numbers"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Willardo-2006-02-07T05:47:00.000Z-Nature_and_numbers"></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Erroneous_Quotation" data-mw-thread-id="h-Erroneous_Quotation"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Erroneous_Quotation"></span>Erroneous Quotation<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Erroneous_Quotation"></span></h2></div> <p>I just tried to confirm the quotation attributed to Descartes in this article "Nature can be defined through numbers." After searching full text of Descartes' writings, as well as the internet at large, the only results returned for that were links to this wikipedia article and other web sites that quote it. </p><p>While Descartes might have reflected the sentiment present in this quotation, I can find no evidence that he actually said it. Since I am merely a student of political theory, I ask that someone with more experience investigate this matter and make corrections if need be. </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Trivia_item_removed." data-mw-thread-id="h-Trivia_item_removed.-2006-03-11T18:00:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Trivia_item_removed.-2006-03-11T18:00:00.000Z"></span>Trivia item removed.<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Trivia_item_removed.-2006-03-11T18:00:00.000Z"></span></h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Goclenius-2006-03-11T18:00:00.000Z-Trivia_item_removed."></span>I have removed a trivia item according to which Descartes "envied" Spinoza's lens-making. Spinoza was just 18 when Descartes died. I doubt that Descartes ever heard of him. Moreover Spinoza worked in the family business, which dealt in commodities like dried fruit, until 1656; there is no evidence of his work on lenses before 1661. <a href="/wiki/User:Goclenius" title="User:Goclenius">Goclenius</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Ren%C3%A9_Descartes#c-Goclenius-2006-03-11T18:00:00.000Z-Trivia_item_removed." class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:00, 11 March 2006 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Goclenius-2006-03-11T18:00:00.000Z-Trivia_item_removed."><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Goclenius-2006-03-11T18:00:00.000Z-Trivia_item_removed."></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="The_date_of_Descartes'_entry_at_La_Flèche" data-mw-thread-id="h-The_date_of_Descartes'_entry_at_La_Flèche-2006-03-11T18:20:00.000Z"><span id="The_date_of_Descartes.27_entry_at_La_Fl.C3.A8che"></span><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-The_date_of_Descartes'_entry_at_La_Flèche-2006-03-11T18:20:00.000Z"></span>The date of Descartes' entry at La Flèche<span data-mw-comment-end="h-The_date_of_Descartes'_entry_at_La_Flèche-2006-03-11T18:20:00.000Z"></span></h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Goclenius-2006-03-11T18:20:00.000Z-The_date_of_Descartes'_entry_at_La_Flèche"></span>According to Gaukroger (<i>Descartes</i>, p38), Descartes entered La Flèche in 1606. He was ten years old at the time. Gaukroger notes that there is disagreement about the period of Descartes' schooling at La Flèche, with either 1605 or 1606 possible for the time of entry. Following Henri Gouhier (<i>Les premières pensées de Descartes</i>, 1958, p158–9), he settles on 1606 as the most likely. <a href="/wiki/User:Goclenius" title="User:Goclenius">Goclenius</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Ren%C3%A9_Descartes#c-Goclenius-2006-03-11T18:20:00.000Z-The_date_of_Descartes'_entry_at_La_Flèche" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:20, 11 March 2006 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Goclenius-2006-03-11T18:20:00.000Z-The_date_of_Descartes'_entry_at_La_Flèche"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Goclenius-2006-03-11T18:20:00.000Z-The_date_of_Descartes'_entry_at_La_Flèche"></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Request_clarification_on_characterization_of_(Aczel,_2005)" data-mw-thread-id="h-Request_clarification_on_characterization_of_(Aczel,_2005)-2006-03-17T22:18:00.000Z"><span id="Request_clarification_on_characterization_of_.28Aczel.2C_2005.29"></span><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Request_clarification_on_characterization_of_(Aczel,_2005)-2006-03-17T22:18:00.000Z"></span>Request clarification on characterization of (Aczel, 2005)<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Request_clarification_on_characterization_of_(Aczel,_2005)-2006-03-17T22:18:00.000Z"></span></h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Jon_Awbrey-2006-03-17T22:18:00.000Z-Request_clarification_on_characterization_of_(Aczel,_2005)"></span>JA: Ric Maazel removed the bib entry for (Aczel, 2005): <style data-mw-deduplicate="TemplateStyles:r1238218222">.mw-parser-output cite.citation{font-style:inherit;word-wrap:break-word}.mw-parser-output .citation q{quotes:"\"""\"""'""'"}.mw-parser-output .citation:target{background-color:rgba(0,127,255,0.133)}.mw-parser-output .id-lock-free.id-lock-free a{background:url("//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/65/Lock-green.svg")right 0.1em center/9px no-repeat}.mw-parser-output .id-lock-limited.id-lock-limited a,.mw-parser-output .id-lock-registration.id-lock-registration a{background:url("//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d6/Lock-gray-alt-2.svg")right 0.1em center/9px no-repeat}.mw-parser-output .id-lock-subscription.id-lock-subscription a{background:url("//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/aa/Lock-red-alt-2.svg")right 0.1em center/9px no-repeat}.mw-parser-output .cs1-ws-icon a{background:url("//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4c/Wikisource-logo.svg")right 0.1em center/12px no-repeat}body:not(.skin-timeless):not(.skin-minerva) .mw-parser-output .id-lock-free a,body:not(.skin-timeless):not(.skin-minerva) .mw-parser-output .id-lock-limited a,body:not(.skin-timeless):not(.skin-minerva) .mw-parser-output .id-lock-registration a,body:not(.skin-timeless):not(.skin-minerva) .mw-parser-output .id-lock-subscription a,body:not(.skin-timeless):not(.skin-minerva) .mw-parser-output .cs1-ws-icon a{background-size:contain;padding:0 1em 0 0}.mw-parser-output .cs1-code{color:inherit;background:inherit;border:none;padding:inherit}.mw-parser-output .cs1-hidden-error{display:none;color:var(--color-error,#d33)}.mw-parser-output .cs1-visible-error{color:var(--color-error,#d33)}.mw-parser-output .cs1-maint{display:none;color:#085;margin-left:0.3em}.mw-parser-output .cs1-kern-left{padding-left:0.2em}.mw-parser-output .cs1-kern-right{padding-right:0.2em}.mw-parser-output .citation .mw-selflink{font-weight:inherit}@media screen{.mw-parser-output .cs1-format{font-size:95%}html.skin-theme-clientpref-night .mw-parser-output .cs1-maint{color:#18911f}}@media screen and (prefers-color-scheme:dark){html.skin-theme-clientpref-os .mw-parser-output .cs1-maint{color:#18911f}}</style><cite id="CITEREFAczel2005" class="citation book cs1">Aczel, Amir (2005). <i>Descartes’ Secret Notebook</i>. New York: Broadway Books. ISBN 0-7679-2033-3.</cite><span title="ctx_ver=Z39.88-2004&rft_val_fmt=info%3Aofi%2Ffmt%3Akev%3Amtx%3Abook&rft.genre=book&rft.btitle=Descartes%E2%80%99+Secret+Notebook&rft.place=New+York&rft.pub=Broadway+Books&rft.date=2005&rft.aulast=Aczel&rft.aufirst=Amir&rfr_id=info%3Asid%2Fen.wikipedia.org%3ATalk%3ARen%C3%A9+Descartes" class="Z3988"></span> with the following comment in the edit line: </p> <blockquote> <p>(Alphabetize secondary literature. Remove Aczel: inaccurate, misleading. Replace with Costabel.) </p> </blockquote> <p>JA: I found the book to be an entertaining popular account, mostly known information, but with a few details not reported elsewhere. Can someone provide an authoritative review that would justify excluding the book altogether without even the benefit of corrective comment? Thank you, <a href="/wiki/User:Jon_Awbrey" title="User:Jon Awbrey">Jon Awbrey</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Ren%C3%A9_Descartes#c-Jon_Awbrey-2006-03-17T22:18:00.000Z-Request_clarification_on_characterization_of_(Aczel,_2005)" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:18, 17 March 2006 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Jon_Awbrey-2006-03-17T22:18:00.000Z-Request_clarification_on_characterization_of_(Aczel,_2005)"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Jon_Awbrey-2006-03-17T22:18:00.000Z-Request_clarification_on_characterization_of_(Aczel,_2005)"></span> </p><p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Ric_Maazel-2006-06-30T15:22:00.000Z-Request_clarification_on_characterization_of_(Aczel,_2005)"></span>RM: Where to begin? First of all, the contents of the <i>Secret Handbook</i> are entirely misrepresented. What Descartes actually proved was a theorem about the sum of the so-called angle defects of the solid angles of a polyhedron. It turns out that this implies a theorem of Euler's of a century later, that V-E+F=2 for all polyhedra, where V=number of vertices, E=number of edges, F=number of faces. The two theorems, as well as their proofs, are entirely different. Aczel actually describes Euler's theorem and proof, which is combinatirial and topological, instead of Descartes', which is entirely geometrical. He even says that Descartes counted edges, which he never did, and does so in a really slimy way that _implies_ that the stuff is in the secret notebook, when it was never there. </p><p>RM: In the post WWI years, it was fashionable for French mathematicians to call Euler's theorem Descartes' theorem. Either Aczel can't tell the difference between the theorems, because he's only done secondary research, or he has bought into this chauvenistic and now discredited viewpoint. He even invents "facts" about Euler, spfcifically that he visited Hanover in 1730, where he might have seen Leibniz' copy of the Notebook. There's absolutely no basis for this claim. Tellingly, he gives no citation for it. </p><p>RM: The most foolish thing is his claim that Descartes' compass-and-straightedge construction of the square root "was one of his greatest achievements in mathematics ... which would have stunned the ancient Greeks since they could construct only much simpler things." The construction is in fact in Euclid's Elements and would have been well known to any of Descartes' contemporaries. But apparently not to Aczel. This construction is explained in Wikipedia's <a href="/wiki/Square_root" title="Square root">Square root</a> entry. </p><p>RM: The list goes on and on: Plato's cosmology, the dates of Eudoxus and Eratosthenes, achievements of Renaissance Italian mathematicians. Clearly, no historian of mathematics reivewed the manuscript, as would have been done if any reputable academic publisher had released this book. It's a slipshod piece of scholarship and has no place in this article. As you yourself noted, the book is mostly derivative. However, the misrepresentations and errors are entirely original. --<a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Ric_Maazel&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Ric Maazel (page does not exist)">Ric Maazel</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Ren%C3%A9_Descartes#c-Ric_Maazel-2006-06-30T15:22:00.000Z-Request_clarification_on_characterization_of_(Aczel,_2005)" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:22, 30 June 2006 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Ric_Maazel-2006-06-30T15:22:00.000Z-Request_clarification_on_characterization_of_(Aczel,_2005)"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Ric_Maazel-2006-06-30T15:22:00.000Z-Request_clarification_on_characterization_of_(Aczel,_2005)"></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Descartes’_entry_into_La_Flèche" data-mw-thread-id="h-Descartes’_entry_into_La_Flèche"><span id="Descartes.E2.80.99_entry_into_La_Fl.C3.A8che"></span><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Descartes’_entry_into_La_Flèche"></span>Descartes’ entry into La Flèche<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Descartes’_entry_into_La_Flèche"></span></h2></div> <p>Somebody changed the date to 1604 (by implication). Here’s the story from three recent biographies: </p><p>(i) Gaukroger (1995:424n1) and Watson have Easter 1606; if Easter was in April, then Descartes was ten. </p><p>(ii) Rodis-Lewis has Easter 1607 (Rodis-Lewis 1995:25). She notes (like Gaukroger) that Baillet’s date 1604 is certainly wrong, but doesn't argue for 1607 as against 1606. (I think the reason is that Charlet, the director of the school during Descartes' time there, didn't arrive until October 1606. Charlet is supposed to have ensured that Descartes received special treatment in view of his sickliness.) </p><p>In short, there is no reason to prefer 1604 to the other dates, and some reason to reject it. </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Criteria_for_inclusion_in_the_"influenced"_section_of_the_Infobox" data-mw-thread-id="h-Criteria_for_inclusion_in_the_"influenced"_section_of_the_Infobox-2006-04-14T01:42:00.000Z"><span id="Criteria_for_inclusion_in_the_.22influenced.22_section_of_the_Infobox"></span><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Criteria_for_inclusion_in_the_"influenced"_section_of_the_Infobox-2006-04-14T01:42:00.000Z"></span>Criteria for inclusion in the "influenced" section of the Infobox<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Criteria_for_inclusion_in_the_"influenced"_section_of_the_Infobox-2006-04-14T01:42:00.000Z"></span></h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Goclenius-2006-04-14T01:42:00.000Z-Criteria_for_inclusion_in_the_"influenced"_section_of_the_Infobox"></span>Laurence BonJour was added to the "influenced" section of the Infobox. It seems to me that if that section is to be kept within bounds (and if it isn't, it won't be of much use), some criteria for inclusion need to be agreed upon. </p><p>Here's a suggestion: </p> <ol><li>To be included, a philosopher must be a major philosopher.</li> <li>Descartes' work must be a principal and immediate influence on the philosopher in question. (Descartes influenced Malebranche, who was a major influence on Hume, but I don't think Descartes is a principal or immediate influence on Hume.) "Influence", in the required sense, is not a transitive relation.</li></ol> <p>BonJour is, by comparison with the other figures on the list, not a major philosopher. Moreover, although any post-Cartesian philosopher who discusses foundationalism will undoubtedly have read Descartes, it's not clear that Descartes is either a principal or an immediate influence on BonJour. <i>In defence of pure reason</i> has only two not very significant mentions; <i>Epistemic justification</i> mentions Descartes only in passing, and Sosa has more to say about Descartes than BonJour. You can, of course, be influenced by someone even if you don't mention their name very often. But I think BonJour's principal and immediate influences are more recent than the 17th century. <a href="/wiki/User:Goclenius" title="User:Goclenius">Goclenius</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Ren%C3%A9_Descartes#c-Goclenius-2006-04-14T01:42:00.000Z-Criteria_for_inclusion_in_the_"influenced"_section_of_the_Infobox" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:42, 14 April 2006 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Goclenius-2006-04-14T01:42:00.000Z-Criteria_for_inclusion_in_the_"influenced"_section_of_the_Infobox"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Goclenius-2006-04-14T01:42:00.000Z-Criteria_for_inclusion_in_the_"influenced"_section_of_the_Infobox"></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="The_Cartesian_Subject?" data-mw-thread-id="h-The_Cartesian_Subject?-2006-07-08T23:50:00.000Z"><span id="The_Cartesian_Subject.3F"></span><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-The_Cartesian_Subject?-2006-07-08T23:50:00.000Z"></span>The Cartesian Subject?<span data-mw-comment-end="h-The_Cartesian_Subject?-2006-07-08T23:50:00.000Z"></span></h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-R_Lee_E-2006-07-08T23:50:00.000Z-The_Cartesian_Subject?"></span>What is meant by the term "Cartesian Subject?" - <a href="/wiki/User:R_Lee_E" title="User:R Lee E">R_Lee_E</a> <span typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Flag_of_the_United_States.svg" class="mw-file-description"><img src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/a/a4/Flag_of_the_United_States.svg/25px-Flag_of_the_United_States.svg.png" decoding="async" width="25" height="13" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/a/a4/Flag_of_the_United_States.svg/38px-Flag_of_the_United_States.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/a/a4/Flag_of_the_United_States.svg/50px-Flag_of_the_United_States.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="1235" data-file-height="650"/></a></span> (<a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:R_Lee_E">talk</a>, <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/R_Lee_E">contribs</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Ren%C3%A9_Descartes#c-R_Lee_E-2006-07-08T23:50:00.000Z-The_Cartesian_Subject?" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:50, 8 July 2006 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-R_Lee_E-2006-07-08T23:50:00.000Z-The_Cartesian_Subject?"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-R_Lee_E-2006-07-08T23:50:00.000Z-The_Cartesian_Subject?"></span> </p><p><br/> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Trivia..." data-mw-thread-id="h-Trivia...-2006-09-18T23:09:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Trivia...-2006-09-18T23:09:00.000Z"></span>Trivia...<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Trivia...-2006-09-18T23:09:00.000Z"></span></h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Mikkerpikker-2006-09-18T23:09:00.000Z-Trivia..."></span>Renaming trivia to "X in popular culture" <i>doesn't</i> make it any more trivial. Please see <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:TRIVIA" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:TRIVIA">WP:TRIVIA</a>. I'm deleting the whole section (again). <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Mikkerpikker&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Mikkerpikker (page does not exist)">Mi<font color="darkred">kk</font>er</a> <a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Mikkerpikker&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User talk:Mikkerpikker (page does not exist)"><sup>(...)</sup></a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Ren%C3%A9_Descartes#c-Mikkerpikker-2006-09-18T23:09:00.000Z-Trivia..." class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:09, 18 September 2006 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Mikkerpikker-2006-09-18T23:09:00.000Z-Trivia..."><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Mikkerpikker-2006-09-18T23:09:00.000Z-Trivia..."></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Gwern-2006-09-19T15:18:00.000Z-Mikkerpikker-2006-09-18T23:09:00.000Z"></span>WP:TRIVIA has never been policy. -- <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Gwern" title="User talk:Gwern">Gwern</a> <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Gwern" title="Special:Contributions/Gwern"> (contribs)</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Ren%C3%A9_Descartes#c-Gwern-2006-09-19T15:18:00.000Z-Mikkerpikker-2006-09-18T23:09:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:18, 19 September 2006 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Gwern-2006-09-19T15:18:00.000Z-Mikkerpikker-2006-09-18T23:09:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Gwern-2006-09-19T15:18:00.000Z-Mikkerpikker-2006-09-18T23:09:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Mikkerpikker-2006-09-20T22:36:00.000Z-Gwern-2006-09-19T15:18:00.000Z"></span>Fantastic. But <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:NOT" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:NOT">WP:NOT</a> <i>is</i> policy. And WP:NOT a bunch of silly crap like jokes... <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Mikkerpikker&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Mikkerpikker (page does not exist)">Mi<font color="darkred">kk</font>er</a> <a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Mikkerpikker&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User talk:Mikkerpikker (page does not exist)"><sup>(...)</sup></a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Ren%C3%A9_Descartes#c-Mikkerpikker-2006-09-20T22:36:00.000Z-Gwern-2006-09-19T15:18:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:36, 20 September 2006 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Mikkerpikker-2006-09-20T22:36:00.000Z-Gwern-2006-09-19T15:18:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Mikkerpikker-2006-09-20T22:36:00.000Z-Gwern-2006-09-19T15:18:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="History_of_the_molecule" data-mw-thread-id="h-History_of_the_molecule-2006-09-20T03:06:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-History_of_the_molecule-2006-09-20T03:06:00.000Z"></span>History of the molecule<span data-mw-comment-end="h-History_of_the_molecule-2006-09-20T03:06:00.000Z"></span></h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Sadi_Carnot-2006-09-20T03:06:00.000Z-History_of_the_molecule"></span>Hi, I'm working on writing the <a href="/wiki/History_of_the_molecule" class="mw-redirect" title="History of the molecule">History of the molecule</a> article. Does anyone know: </p> <ol><li>Where and where did Descartes first use the word <a href="/wiki/Molecule" title="Molecule">molecule</a>?</li> <li>When and where Descartes formulated his "hook-and-eye" atom bonding diagrams?</li></ol> <p>Also, did he draw out these images or just write about them. He seems to be the origin of the concept of the idea of a <b>molecule</b>. Please leave comment if you can help? Thanks: --<a href="/wiki/User:Sadi_Carnot" title="User:Sadi Carnot">Sadi Carnot</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Ren%C3%A9_Descartes#c-Sadi_Carnot-2006-09-20T03:06:00.000Z-History_of_the_molecule" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">03:06, 20 September 2006 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Sadi_Carnot-2006-09-20T03:06:00.000Z-History_of_the_molecule"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Sadi_Carnot-2006-09-20T03:06:00.000Z-History_of_the_molecule"></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="EMO_Comment?" data-mw-thread-id="h-EMO_Comment?-2006-09-26T03:33:00.000Z"><span id="EMO_Comment.3F"></span><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-EMO_Comment?-2006-09-26T03:33:00.000Z"></span>EMO Comment?<span data-mw-comment-end="h-EMO_Comment?-2006-09-26T03:33:00.000Z"></span></h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Gwern-2006-09-26T03:33:00.000Z-EMO_Comment?"></span>Under the heading "Biography," it states that Descartes was "Emo and cut himself while listening to FOB." I'm new, and I don't know how to get rid of it. It doesn't show up the "edit" page for some reason. Thanks. </p> <dl><dd>Because it'd already been gotten rid of. Thanks for telling us though. -- <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Gwern" title="User talk:Gwern">Gwern</a> <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Gwern" title="Special:Contributions/Gwern"> (contribs)</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Ren%C3%A9_Descartes#c-Gwern-2006-09-26T03:33:00.000Z-EMO_Comment?" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">03:33, 26 September 2006 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Gwern-2006-09-26T03:33:00.000Z-EMO_Comment?"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Gwern-2006-09-26T03:33:00.000Z-EMO_Comment?"></span></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Sem--protect" data-mw-thread-id="h-Sem--protect-2006-10-02T19:55:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Sem--protect-2006-10-02T19:55:00.000Z"></span>Sem--protect<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Sem--protect-2006-10-02T19:55:00.000Z"></span></h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Banno-2006-10-02T19:55:00.000Z-Sem--protect"></span>Out of the last fifty edits, all but a half-dozen are either vandalism or reverts of vandalism, the vast majority from IPs. Semi-protect for a while. <a href="/wiki/User:Banno" title="User:Banno">Banno</a> 19:55, 2 October 2006 (UTC) <a href="/wiki/User:Rabiddog2420" title="User:Rabiddog2420">Rabiddog2420</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Ren%C3%A9_Descartes#c-Banno-2006-10-02T19:55:00.000Z-Sem--protect" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">04:19, 14 October 2006 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Banno-2006-10-02T19:55:00.000Z-Sem--protect"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Banno-2006-10-02T19:55:00.000Z-Sem--protect"></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Animals_as_soulless_machines" data-mw-thread-id="h-Animals_as_soulless_machines-2006-10-17T03:50:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Animals_as_soulless_machines-2006-10-17T03:50:00.000Z"></span>Animals as soulless machines<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Animals_as_soulless_machines-2006-10-17T03:50:00.000Z"></span></h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-R_Lee_E-2006-10-17T03:50:00.000Z-Animals_as_soulless_machines"></span>This article is seriously incomplete. Descartes (along with others at the time) believed that animals did not have souls and therefore were beast machines. He thought that not having a soul meant no higher mental experiences. So when a dog had its paws nailed to a board and it yelped, it was not actually in pain, just exhibiting the external mechanical response that we perceive to be signs of pain. See Nicolaas Rupke, "Vivisection in Historical Perspective", London, Routledge, 1990. I'm not a vegetarian dog-loving, cruelty hating hippy who is complaining that Descartes needs to be portrayed as an ass. I'm just saying that it was an important part of Descartes' work. -elliot </p><p><br/> Yeah. I don't hate cruelty either. - <a href="/wiki/User:R_Lee_E" title="User:R Lee E">R_Lee_E</a> <span typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Flag_of_the_United_States.svg" class="mw-file-description"><img src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/a/a4/Flag_of_the_United_States.svg/25px-Flag_of_the_United_States.svg.png" decoding="async" width="25" height="13" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/a/a4/Flag_of_the_United_States.svg/38px-Flag_of_the_United_States.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/a/a4/Flag_of_the_United_States.svg/50px-Flag_of_the_United_States.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="1235" data-file-height="650"/></a></span> (<a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:R_Lee_E">talk</a>, <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/R_Lee_E">contribs</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Ren%C3%A9_Descartes#c-R_Lee_E-2006-10-17T03:50:00.000Z-Animals_as_soulless_machines" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">03:50, 17 October 2006 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-R_Lee_E-2006-10-17T03:50:00.000Z-Animals_as_soulless_machines"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-R_Lee_E-2006-10-17T03:50:00.000Z-Animals_as_soulless_machines"></span> </p></div><noscript><img src="https://login.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:CentralAutoLogin/start?type=1x1" alt="" width="1" height="1" style="border: none; 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