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<span class="vector-toc-numb">6</span> <span>Mihirangi Portion</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">6 comments</span> <ul id="toc-Mihirangi_Portion-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Buytric_Acid_censorship" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1 vector-toc-list-item-expanded"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Buytric_Acid_censorship"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">7</span> <span>Buytric Acid censorship</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">1 comment</span> <ul id="toc-Buytric_Acid_censorship-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Criticism_of_Whale_Wars_television_series,_Ok_--_Criticism_of_Sea_Shepherd,_No." class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1 vector-toc-list-item-expanded"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Criticism_of_Whale_Wars_television_series,_Ok_--_Criticism_of_Sea_Shepherd,_No."> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">8</span> <span>Criticism of Whale Wars television series, Ok -- Criticism of Sea Shepherd, No.</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">18 comments</span> <ul id="toc-Criticism_of_Whale_Wars_television_series,_Ok_--_Criticism_of_Sea_Shepherd,_No.-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Considerable_and_excessive_edits_by_User:Cubrilovic" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1 vector-toc-list-item-expanded"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Considerable_and_excessive_edits_by_User:Cubrilovic"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">9</span> <span>Considerable and excessive edits by User:Cubrilovic</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">2 comments</span> <ul id="toc-Considerable_and_excessive_edits_by_User:Cubrilovic-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Animal_Planet_disclaimer" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1 vector-toc-list-item-expanded"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Animal_Planet_disclaimer"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">10</span> <span>Animal Planet disclaimer</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">4 comments</span> <ul id="toc-Animal_Planet_disclaimer-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Minor_updates_to_the_"Shooting_Controversy"" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1 vector-toc-list-item-expanded"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Minor_updates_to_the_"Shooting_Controversy""> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">11</span> <span>Minor updates to the "Shooting Controversy"</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">1 comment</span> <ul id="toc-Minor_updates_to_the_"Shooting_Controversy"-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-"Shooting_Controversy"" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1 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class='oo-ui-layout oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-fieldLayout oo-ui-fieldLayout-align-left' data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.FieldLayout","fieldWidget":{"tag":"mw-diffPage-inline-toggle-switch"},"$overlay":true,"label":"Inline","title":"Switches between inline format and two-column format"}'><div class='oo-ui-fieldLayout-body'><span class='oo-ui-fieldLayout-header'><label title='Switches between inline format and two-column format' id='ooui-php-2' class='oo-ui-labelElement-label'>Inline</label></span><div class='oo-ui-fieldLayout-field'><div id='mw-diffPage-inline-toggle-switch' title='Switches between inline format and two-column format' aria-checked='false' tabindex='0' role='switch' aria-labelledby='ooui-php-2' class='oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-toggleWidget oo-ui-toggleWidget-off oo-ui-toggleSwitchWidget' data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ToggleSwitchWidget","href":"\/w\/index.php?title=Talk:Whale_Wars&diff=prev&oldid=331514450&diff-type=inline","value":false,"title":"Switches between inline format and two-column format"}'><span class='oo-ui-toggleSwitchWidget-glow'></span><a href='/w/index.php?title=Talk:Whale_Wars&diff=prev&oldid=331514450&diff-type=inline'><span class='oo-ui-toggleSwitchWidget-grip'></span></a></div></div></div></div></div></div><table class="diff diff-type-table diff-contentalign-left diff-editfont-monospace" data-mw="interface"> <col class="diff-marker" /> <col class="diff-content" /> <col class="diff-marker" /> <col class="diff-content" /> <tr class="diff-title" lang="en"> <td colspan="2" class="diff-otitle diff-side-deleted"><div id="mw-diff-otitle1"><strong><a href="/w/index.php?title=Talk:Whale_Wars&oldid=331401840" title="Talk:Whale Wars">Revision as of 08:42, 13 December 2009</a> <span class="mw-diff-edit"><a href="/w/index.php?title=Talk:Whale_Wars&action=edit&oldid=331401840" title="Talk:Whale Wars">edit</a></span><span class="mw-diff-timestamp" data-timestamp="2009-12-13T08:42:33Z"></span></strong></div><div id="mw-diff-otitle2"><a href="/wiki/User:Cptnono" class="mw-userlink" title="User:Cptnono" data-mw-revid="331401840"><bdi>Cptnono</bdi></a> <span class="mw-usertoollinks">(<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Cptnono" class="mw-usertoollinks-talk" title="User talk:Cptnono">talk</a> | <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Cptnono" class="mw-usertoollinks-contribs" title="Special:Contributions/Cptnono">contribs</a>)</span><div class="mw-diff-usermetadata"><div class="mw-diff-userroles"><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Autopatrolled" title="Wikipedia:Autopatrolled">Autopatrolled</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Extended_confirmed_editors" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:Extended confirmed editors">Extended confirmed users</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Reviewing_pending_changes" title="Wikipedia:Reviewing pending changes">Pending changes reviewers</a></div><div class="mw-diff-usereditcount"><span>26,588</span> edits</div></div></div><div id="mw-diff-otitle3"> <span class="comment comment--without-parentheses"><span class="autocomment"><a href="#Jane_Taylor">→<bdi dir="ltr">Jane Taylor</bdi></a></span></span></div><div id="mw-diff-otitle5"></div><div id="mw-diff-otitle4"><a href="/w/index.php?title=Talk:Whale_Wars&diff=prev&oldid=331401840" title="Talk:Whale Wars" id="differences-prevlink">← Previous edit</a></div></td> <td colspan="2" class="diff-ntitle diff-side-added"><div id="mw-diff-ntitle1"><strong><a href="/w/index.php?title=Talk:Whale_Wars&oldid=331514450" title="Talk:Whale Wars">Revision as of 23:21, 13 December 2009</a> <span class="mw-diff-edit"><a href="/w/index.php?title=Talk:Whale_Wars&action=edit&oldid=331514450" title="Talk:Whale Wars">edit</a></span><span class="mw-diff-timestamp" data-timestamp="2009-12-13T23:21:21Z"></span> <span class="mw-diff-undo"><a href="/w/index.php?title=Talk:Whale_Wars&action=edit&undoafter=331401840&undo=331514450" title=""Undo" reverts this edit and opens the edit form in preview mode. It allows adding a reason in the summary.">undo</a></span></strong></div><div id="mw-diff-ntitle2"><a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/24.119.210.17" class="mw-userlink mw-anonuserlink" title="Special:Contributions/24.119.210.17" data-mw-revid="331514450"><bdi>24.119.210.17</bdi></a> <span class="mw-usertoollinks">(<a href="/wiki/User_talk:24.119.210.17" class="mw-usertoollinks-talk" title="User talk:24.119.210.17">talk</a>)</span><div class="mw-diff-usermetadata"></div></div><div id="mw-diff-ntitle3"> <span class="comment comment--without-parentheses"><span class="autocomment"><a href="#Jane_Taylor">→<bdi dir="ltr">Jane Taylor</bdi></a></span></span></div><div id="mw-diff-ntitle5"></div><div id="mw-diff-ntitle4"><a href="/w/index.php?title=Talk:Whale_Wars&diff=next&oldid=331514450" title="Talk:Whale Wars" id="differences-nextlink">Next edit →</a></div></td> </tr><tr> <td colspan="2" class="diff-lineno">Line 9:</td> <td colspan="2" class="diff-lineno">Line 9:</td> </tr> <tr> <td class="diff-marker"></td> <td class="diff-context diff-side-deleted"><div>:sign your comments with 4 thingys: "<nowiki>~~~~</nowiki>" and commenting at the bottom of the page is the norm. </div></td> <td class="diff-marker"></td> <td class="diff-context diff-side-added"><div>:sign your comments with 4 thingys: "<nowiki>~~~~</nowiki>" and commenting at the bottom of the page is the norm. </div></td> </tr> <tr> <td class="diff-marker"></td> <td class="diff-context diff-side-deleted"><div>:Do you have a source? The whole section could use one but I would love to know the back story and verify.[[User:Cptnono|Cptnono]] ([[User talk:Cptnono|talk]]) 08:42, 13 December 2009 (UTC)</div></td> <td class="diff-marker"></td> <td class="diff-context diff-side-added"><div>:Do you have a source? The whole section could use one but I would love to know the back story and verify.[[User:Cptnono|Cptnono]] ([[User talk:Cptnono|talk]]) 08:42, 13 December 2009 (UTC)</div></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" class="diff-empty diff-side-deleted"></td> <td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td> <td class="diff-addedline diff-side-added"><br /></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" class="diff-empty diff-side-deleted"></td> <td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td> <td class="diff-addedline diff-side-added"><div>Look at her Myspace for a source. I can't find it right now, but I assure you it is true. There has also been a lot of drama over Watson's new cyber girlfriend, Mia, dissing a lot of SSCS members and supporters. Even wrting nasty emails to them and telling them to kill themselves. She WAS gong ot go on the trip but decided to stay on land and play around with his Myspace account. You will notice that she is very self-centered and jealous</div></td> </tr> <tr> <td class="diff-marker"></td> <td class="diff-context diff-side-deleted"><br /></td> <td class="diff-marker"></td> <td class="diff-context diff-side-added"><br /></td> </tr> <tr> <td class="diff-marker"></td> <td class="diff-context diff-side-deleted"><div>== Controversy section is full of personal opinions with no citation! ==</div></td> <td class="diff-marker"></td> <td class="diff-context diff-side-added"><div>== Controversy section is full of personal opinions with no citation! ==</div></td> </tr> </table><hr class='diff-hr' id='mw-oldid' /> <h2 class='diff-currentversion-title'>Revision as of 23:21, 13 December 2009</h2> <div class="mw-content-ltr mw-parser-output" lang="en" dir="ltr"><style data-mw-deduplicate="TemplateStyles:r1237879475">.mw-parser-output .tmbox{margin:4px 0;border-collapse:collapse;border:1px solid #c0c090;background-color:#f8eaba;box-sizing:border-box}.mw-parser-output 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.class-unassessed{background-color:#DCDCDC}.mw-parser-output .conflict{border:0.2em solid red}.mw-parser-output .inactive-wikiproject .wpb-header-bubbles{color:inherit}@media screen{html.skin-theme-clientpref-night .mw-parser-output .wpb-category-box{background-color:#0a0a0a}html.skin-theme-clientpref-night .mw-parser-output .wpbs .wpb .wpb-main,html.skin-theme-clientpref-night .mw-parser-output .wpbs .wpb-header{background-color:#302f2d}html.skin-theme-clientpref-night .mw-parser-output .wpbs .banner-shell-inner{background-color:#2e2505}}@media screen and (prefers-color-scheme:dark){html.skin-theme-clientpref-os .mw-parser-output .wpb-category-box{background-color:#0a0a0a}html.skin-theme-clientpref-os .mw-parser-output .wpbs .wpb .wpb-main,html.skin-theme-clientpref-os .mw-parser-output .wpbs .wpb-header{background-color:#302f2d}html.skin-theme-clientpref-os .mw-parser-output .wpbs .banner-shell-inner{background-color:#2e2505}}</style><table class="tmbox tmbox-notice mw-collapsible innercollapse wpb wpb-table"><tbody><tr class="wpb-header"><td class="wpb-header-icon"><span typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:TV-icon-2.svg" class="mw-file-description"><img alt="WikiProject icon" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/b6/TV-icon-2.svg/35px-TV-icon-2.svg.png" decoding="async" width="35" height="24" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/b6/TV-icon-2.svg/53px-TV-icon-2.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/b6/TV-icon-2.svg/70px-TV-icon-2.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="138" data-file-height="96"/></a></span></td><td class="wpb-header-combined"><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Television" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Television">Television</a> <span class="wpb-header-bubbles class-unassessed">Unassessed</span></td></tr><tr><td class="mbox-text wpb-main" colspan="2"><table><tbody><tr><td class="mbox-image wpb-image"><span typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:TV-icon-2.svg" 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//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/8c/Blank_television_set.svg/64px-Blank_television_set.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="138" data-file-height="92"/></a></span></span><span class="portalbox-link"><a href="/wiki/Portal:Television" title="Portal:Television">Television portal</a></span></li></ul>This article is within the scope of <b><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Television" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Television">WikiProject Television</a></b>, a collaborative effort to develop and improve Wikipedia articles about <a href="/wiki/Television_show" title="Television show">television programs</a>. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page where you can <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Television" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Television">join the discussion</a>. To improve this article, please refer to the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style/Television" title="Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Television">style guidelines</a> for the type of work.<span class="metadata wpb-metadata"><span class="wpb-project">Television</span><span class="wpb-project_link">Wikipedia:WikiProject Television</span><span class="wpb-banner_name">Template:WikiProject Television</span><span class="wpb-assessment_cat">television articles</span></span></td><td class="mbox-empty-cell"></td></tr><tr><td class="assess class-unassessed"><a href="/wiki/Category:Unassessed_television_articles" title="Category:Unassessed television articles">???</a></td><td class="mbox-text" colspan="2">This article has not yet received a rating on Wikipedia's <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Content_assessment" title="Wikipedia:Content assessment">content assessment</a> scale.</td></tr><tr><td class="assess import-unknown"><a href="/wiki/Category:Unknown-importance_television_articles" title="Category:Unknown-importance television articles">???</a></td><td class="mbox-text" colspan="2">This article has not yet received a rating on the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Television/Assessment#Importance_scale" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Television/Assessment">project's importance scale</a>.</td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr></tbody></table> <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1237879475"><link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1259570071"><table class="tmbox tmbox-notice mw-collapsible innercollapse wpb wpb-table"><tbody><tr class="wpb-header"><td class="wpb-header-icon"><span typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Loxodonta_africana_in_Serengeti.jpg" class="mw-file-description"><img alt="WikiProject icon" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/65/Loxodonta_africana_in_Serengeti.jpg/35px-Loxodonta_africana_in_Serengeti.jpg" decoding="async" width="35" height="23" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/65/Loxodonta_africana_in_Serengeti.jpg/53px-Loxodonta_africana_in_Serengeti.jpg 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/65/Loxodonta_africana_in_Serengeti.jpg/70px-Loxodonta_africana_in_Serengeti.jpg 2x" data-file-width="1024" data-file-height="683"/></a></span></td><td class="wpb-header-combined"><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Animals" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Animals">Animals</a> <span class="wpb-header-bubbles class-c">C‑class</span> <span class="wpb-header-bubbles import-low">Low‑importance</span></td></tr><tr><td class="mbox-text wpb-main" colspan="2"><table><tbody><tr><td class="mbox-image wpb-image"><span typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Loxodonta_africana_in_Serengeti.jpg" class="mw-file-description"><img alt="WikiProject icon" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/65/Loxodonta_africana_in_Serengeti.jpg/60px-Loxodonta_africana_in_Serengeti.jpg" decoding="async" width="60" height="40" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/65/Loxodonta_africana_in_Serengeti.jpg/90px-Loxodonta_africana_in_Serengeti.jpg 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/65/Loxodonta_africana_in_Serengeti.jpg/120px-Loxodonta_africana_in_Serengeti.jpg 2x" data-file-width="1024" data-file-height="683"/></a></span></td><td class="mbox-text"><link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1259569809"><ul role="navigation" aria-label="Portals" class="noprint portalbox portalborder portalright"> <li class="portalbox-entry"><span class="portalbox-image"><span class="noviewer" typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Wapiti_from_Wagon_Trails.jpg" class="mw-file-description"><img alt="icon" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/44/Wapiti_from_Wagon_Trails.jpg/32px-Wapiti_from_Wagon_Trails.jpg" decoding="async" width="32" height="22" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/44/Wapiti_from_Wagon_Trails.jpg/48px-Wapiti_from_Wagon_Trails.jpg 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/44/Wapiti_from_Wagon_Trails.jpg/64px-Wapiti_from_Wagon_Trails.jpg 2x" data-file-width="2064" data-file-height="1413"/></a></span></span><span class="portalbox-link"><a href="/wiki/Portal:Animals" title="Portal:Animals">Animals portal</a></span></li></ul><i><b>Whale Wars</b></i> is within the scope of <b><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Animals" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Animals">WikiProject Animals</a></b>, an attempt to better organize information in articles related to <a href="/wiki/Animal" title="Animal">animals</a> and <a href="/wiki/Zoology" title="Zoology">zoology</a>. For more information, visit the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Animals" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Animals">project page</a>.<span class="metadata wpb-metadata"><span class="wpb-project">Animals</span><span class="wpb-project_link">Wikipedia:WikiProject Animals</span><span class="wpb-banner_name">Template:WikiProject Animals</span><span class="wpb-assessment_cat">animal articles</span></span></td><td class="mbox-empty-cell"></td></tr><tr><td class="assess class-c"><a href="/wiki/Category:C-Class_animal_articles" title="Category:C-Class animal articles">C</a></td><td class="mbox-text" colspan="2">This article has been rated as <b>C-class</b> on Wikipedia's <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Content_assessment" title="Wikipedia:Content assessment">content assessment</a> scale.</td></tr><tr><td class="assess import-low"><a href="/wiki/Category:Low-importance_animal_articles" title="Category:Low-importance animal articles">Low</a></td><td class="mbox-text" colspan="2">This article has been rated as <b>Low-importance</b> on the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Animals/Assessment#Importance_scale" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Animals/Assessment">project's importance scale</a>.</td></tr><tr><td colspan="3" style="padding:0"><table class="mw-collapsible mw-collapsed" style="background:transparent;width:100%"><tbody><tr><th style="text-align:left;padding:0.2em 2px 0.2em 0">WikiProject Animals <a href="/wiki/Template:Animal_tasks" title="Template:Animal tasks">To-do</a>:</th></tr><tr><td style="text-align:left;padding:5px;background-color:white;border:1px solid #c0c090;margin-top:5px"><style data-mw-deduplicate="TemplateStyles:r1129693374">.mw-parser-output .hlist dl,.mw-parser-output .hlist ol,.mw-parser-output .hlist ul{margin:0;padding:0}.mw-parser-output .hlist dd,.mw-parser-output .hlist dt,.mw-parser-output .hlist li{margin:0;display:inline}.mw-parser-output .hlist.inline,.mw-parser-output .hlist.inline dl,.mw-parser-output .hlist.inline ol,.mw-parser-output .hlist.inline ul,.mw-parser-output .hlist dl dl,.mw-parser-output .hlist dl ol,.mw-parser-output .hlist dl ul,.mw-parser-output .hlist ol dl,.mw-parser-output .hlist ol ol,.mw-parser-output .hlist ol ul,.mw-parser-output .hlist ul dl,.mw-parser-output .hlist ul ol,.mw-parser-output .hlist ul ul{display:inline}.mw-parser-output .hlist .mw-empty-li{display:none}.mw-parser-output .hlist dt::after{content:": "}.mw-parser-output .hlist dd::after,.mw-parser-output .hlist li::after{content:" · ";font-weight:bold}.mw-parser-output .hlist dd:last-child::after,.mw-parser-output .hlist dt:last-child::after,.mw-parser-output .hlist li:last-child::after{content:none}.mw-parser-output .hlist dd dd:first-child::before,.mw-parser-output .hlist dd dt:first-child::before,.mw-parser-output .hlist dd li:first-child::before,.mw-parser-output .hlist dt dd:first-child::before,.mw-parser-output .hlist dt dt:first-child::before,.mw-parser-output .hlist dt li:first-child::before,.mw-parser-output .hlist li dd:first-child::before,.mw-parser-output .hlist li dt:first-child::before,.mw-parser-output .hlist li li:first-child::before{content:" (";font-weight:normal}.mw-parser-output .hlist dd dd:last-child::after,.mw-parser-output .hlist dd dt:last-child::after,.mw-parser-output .hlist dd li:last-child::after,.mw-parser-output .hlist dt dd:last-child::after,.mw-parser-output .hlist dt dt:last-child::after,.mw-parser-output .hlist dt li:last-child::after,.mw-parser-output .hlist li dd:last-child::after,.mw-parser-output .hlist li dt:last-child::after,.mw-parser-output .hlist li li:last-child::after{content:")";font-weight:normal}.mw-parser-output .hlist ol{counter-reset:listitem}.mw-parser-output .hlist ol>li{counter-increment:listitem}.mw-parser-output .hlist ol>li::before{content:" "counter(listitem)"\a0 "}.mw-parser-output .hlist dd ol>li:first-child::before,.mw-parser-output .hlist dt ol>li:first-child::before,.mw-parser-output .hlist li ol>li:first-child::before{content:" ("counter(listitem)"\a0 "}</style><div class="hlist plainlinks" style="text-align:center;font-size:90%;"><ul><li><a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Template%3AAnimal_tasks&action=edit">edit</a></li><li><a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Template%3AAnimal_tasks&action=history">history</a></li><li><a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Template%3AAnimal_tasks&action=watch">watch</a></li><li><a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Template%3AAnimal_tasks&action=purge">purge</a></li></ul> </div> <table style="width:99%; margin:0 auto"> <tbody><tr> <td> <p><span class="mw-default-size" typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Clipboard.svg" class="mw-file-description"><img alt="" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/1/1f/Clipboard.svg/48px-Clipboard.svg.png" decoding="async" width="48" height="48" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/1/1f/Clipboard.svg/72px-Clipboard.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/1/1f/Clipboard.svg/96px-Clipboard.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="48" data-file-height="48"/></a></span><br/> </p> <div style="width:25px;height:0px;"></div> </td> <td> <div style="position:relative;left:-15px;margin-right:-10px;z-index:15">Here are some <i><b><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Animals/Task_list" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Animals/Task list">Open Tasks</a></b></i> :<ul style="font-size:85%;padding:.3em 0 .3em 25px;margin:0"> <li><b><a href="/wiki/Category:Wikipedia_articles_needing_copy_edit" title="Category:Wikipedia articles needing copy edit">Copyedit</a>:</b> </li> <li> <b>Merge:</b> <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:GLAM/ARKive" title="Wikipedia:GLAM/ARKive">GLAM/ARKive donated texts</a> into articles about endangered species. </li> <li><b><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Guide_to_improving_articles" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:Guide to improving articles">Improve</a>:</b> <a href="/wiki/Photoperiodism" title="Photoperiodism">Photoperiodism</a>, <a href="/wiki/Tool_use_by_non-human_animals" class="mw-redirect" title="Tool use by non-human animals">Tool use by non-human animals</a>, <a href="/wiki/Omnivore" title="Omnivore">Omnivore</a>, <a href="/wiki/Animal_suicide" title="Animal suicide">Animal suicide</a>, <i><a href="/wiki/Sphaerium_beckmani" title="Sphaerium beckmani">Sphaerium beckmani</a></i> (a species in family <a href="/wiki/Sphaeriidae" title="Sphaeriidae">Sphaeriidae</a>), </li> <li><b><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Animals/Article_requests" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Animals/Article requests">Requests</a>:</b> <ul> <li><b>Mammals:</b> </li><li><b>Invertebrates:</b> <a href="/wiki/Campocraspedon" title="Campocraspedon">Campocraspedon</a> </li><li><b>Fishes:</b> <a href="/wiki/Zaniolepis_frenata" title="Zaniolepis frenata">Zaniolepis frenata</a> </li></ul> </li> <li><b>Merge:</b> <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:GLAM/ARKive" title="Wikipedia:GLAM/ARKive">GLAM/ARKive donated texts</a> into articles about endangered species.</li> <li><b><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Animals/Expansion_requests" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Animals/Expansion requests">Expand</a>:</b> <a href="/wiki/Junqueira_cow" class="mw-redirect" title="Junqueira cow">Junqueira cow</a>, <a href="/wiki/Atka_mackerel" title="Atka mackerel">Atka mackerel</a> </li> <li><b>Nominate and vote:</b> <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Science_collaboration_of_the_Month" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:Science collaboration of the Month">Science collaboration of the month</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Article_Improvement_Drive" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:Article Improvement Drive">Article Improvement Drive</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Animals/Collaboration" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Animals/Collaboration">WikiProject Animals Collaboration</a> </li> </ul></div> </td></tr></tbody></table> </td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr></tbody></table> <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1237879475"><table class="plainlinks tmbox tmbox-content tmbox-not-a-forum" role="presentation"><tbody><tr><td class="mbox-image"><span typeof="mw:File"><span><img alt="" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/b/b4/Ambox_important.svg/40px-Ambox_important.svg.png" decoding="async" width="40" height="40" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/b/b4/Ambox_important.svg/60px-Ambox_important.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/b/b4/Ambox_important.svg/80px-Ambox_important.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="40" data-file-height="40"/></span></span></td><td class="mbox-text">This page is <strong><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:What_Wikipedia_is_not#FORUM" title="Wikipedia:What Wikipedia is not">not a forum</a></strong> for general discussion about <a href="/wiki/Whale_Wars" title="Whale Wars">Whale Wars</a>. Any such comments <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Talk_page_guidelines#EDIT" title="Wikipedia:Talk page guidelines">may be removed</a> or <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Refactoring_talk_pages" title="Wikipedia:Refactoring talk pages">refactored</a>. Please limit discussion to improvement of this article. You may wish to ask factual questions about <a href="/wiki/Whale_Wars" title="Whale Wars">Whale Wars</a> at the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk" title="Wikipedia:Reference desk">Reference desk</a>.</td></tr></tbody></table> <meta property="mw:PageProp/toc"/> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Jane_Taylor" data-mw-thread-id="h-Jane_Taylor-2009-12-13T08:42:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Jane_Taylor-2009-12-13T08:42:00.000Z"></span>Jane Taylor<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Jane_Taylor-2009-12-13T08:42:00.000Z"></span></h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Cptnono-2009-12-13T08:42:00.000Z-Jane_Taylor"></span>I removed Jane Taylor from the Crew list and moved her to the former crew list because she was told by Watson that she was not welcomed back because she made teh SSCS look bad. </p> <dl><dd>sign your comments with 4 thingys: "~~~~" and commenting at the bottom of the page is the norm.</dd> <dd>Do you have a source? The whole section could use one but I would love to know the back story and verify.<a href="/wiki/User:Cptnono" title="User:Cptnono">Cptnono</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Cptnono" title="User talk:Cptnono">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Whale_Wars#c-Cptnono-2009-12-13T08:42:00.000Z-Jane_Taylor" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">08:42, 13 December 2009 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Cptnono-2009-12-13T08:42:00.000Z-Jane_Taylor"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Cptnono-2009-12-13T08:42:00.000Z-Jane_Taylor"></span></dd></dl> <p>Look at her Myspace for a source. I can't find it right now, but I assure you it is true. There has also been a lot of drama over Watson's new cyber girlfriend, Mia, dissing a lot of SSCS members and supporters. Even wrting nasty emails to them and telling them to kill themselves. She WAS gong ot go on the trip but decided to stay on land and play around with his Myspace account. You will notice that she is very self-centered and jealous </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Controversy_section_is_full_of_personal_opinions_with_no_citation!" data-mw-thread-id="h-Controversy_section_is_full_of_personal_opinions_with_no_citation!-2009-10-30T22:13:00.000Z"><span id="Controversy_section_is_full_of_personal_opinions_with_no_citation.21"></span><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Controversy_section_is_full_of_personal_opinions_with_no_citation!-2009-10-30T22:13:00.000Z"></span>Controversy section is full of personal opinions with no citation!<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Controversy_section_is_full_of_personal_opinions_with_no_citation!-2009-10-30T22:13:00.000Z"></span></h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-207.224.8.251-2009-10-30T22:13:00.000Z-Controversy_section_is_full_of_personal_opinions_with_no_citation!"></span>For example: </p><p>- "Watson is well known for resorting to fabrication and deceit in order to further his cause" </p><p>- "Paul Watson faked being shot by the Japanese crew or coast guard personnel" <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">—Preceding <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Signatures" title="Wikipedia:Signatures">unsigned</a> comment added by <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/207.224.8.251" title="Special:Contributions/207.224.8.251">207.224.8.251</a> (<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:207.224.8.251&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User talk:207.224.8.251 (page does not exist)">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Whale_Wars#c-207.224.8.251-2009-10-30T22:13:00.000Z-Controversy_section_is_full_of_personal_opinions_with_no_citation!" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:13, 30 October 2009 (UTC)</a></span><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-207.224.8.251-2009-10-30T22:13:00.000Z-Controversy_section_is_full_of_personal_opinions_with_no_citation!"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-207.224.8.251-2009-10-30T22:13:00.000Z-Controversy_section_is_full_of_personal_opinions_with_no_citation!"></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Australia-Japan_relations" data-mw-thread-id="h-Australia-Japan_relations-2008-11-15T03:03:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Australia-Japan_relations-2008-11-15T03:03:00.000Z"></span>Australia-Japan relations<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Australia-Japan_relations-2008-11-15T03:03:00.000Z"></span></h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Villa88-2008-11-15T03:03:00.000Z-Australia-Japan_relations"></span>Should we add the Controversial kidnapping of the 2 activists on how its affecting the Australian and Japanese relations?--<a href="/wiki/User:Villa88" title="User:Villa88">Villa88</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Villa88" title="User talk:Villa88">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Whale_Wars#c-Villa88-2008-11-15T03:03:00.000Z-Australia-Japan_relations" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">03:03, 15 November 2008 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Villa88-2008-11-15T03:03:00.000Z-Australia-Japan_relations"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Villa88-2008-11-15T03:03:00.000Z-Australia-Japan_relations"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-24.119.210.17-2008-12-10T03:43:00.000Z-Villa88-2008-11-15T03:03:00.000Z"></span>They were not kidnapped, They willingly boarded the ship after attacking it. They were detained and were to be turned over to Japanese police but the Austrlian government stepped in after Watson spin his tale to the media <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">—Preceding <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Signatures" title="Wikipedia:Signatures">unsigned</a> comment added by <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/24.119.210.17" title="Special:Contributions/24.119.210.17">24.119.210.17</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:24.119.210.17" title="User talk:24.119.210.17">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Whale_Wars#c-24.119.210.17-2008-12-10T03:43:00.000Z-Villa88-2008-11-15T03:03:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">03:43, 10 December 2008 (UTC)</a><span data-mw-comment-end="c-24.119.210.17-2008-12-10T03:43:00.000Z-Villa88-2008-11-15T03:03:00.000Z"></span></span><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-24.119.210.17-2008-12-10T03:43:00.000Z-Villa88-2008-11-15T03:03:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-24.119.210.17-2008-12-10T05:29:00.000Z-Villa88-2008-11-15T03:03:00.000Z"></span>Again. NOT KIDNAPPED. The terrorists illegally boarded a ship and were detained. <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">—Preceding <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Signatures" title="Wikipedia:Signatures">unsigned</a> comment added by <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/24.119.210.17" title="Special:Contributions/24.119.210.17">24.119.210.17</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:24.119.210.17" title="User talk:24.119.210.17">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Whale_Wars#c-24.119.210.17-2008-12-10T05:29:00.000Z-Villa88-2008-11-15T03:03:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">05:29, 10 December 2008 (UTC)</a></span><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-24.119.210.17-2008-12-10T05:29:00.000Z-Villa88-2008-11-15T03:03:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-24.119.210.17-2008-12-10T05:29:00.000Z-Villa88-2008-11-15T03:03:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Fhue-2009-06-13T05:52:00.000Z-24.119.210.17-2008-12-10T05:29:00.000Z"></span>they're far from terrorists. the correct term is activists, whether or not you agree with their (non-violent) tactics. but yes i agree they were not kidnapped. <a href="/wiki/User:Fhue" class="mw-redirect" title="User:Fhue">Fhue</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Fhue" class="mw-redirect" title="User talk:Fhue">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Whale_Wars#c-Fhue-2009-06-13T05:52:00.000Z-24.119.210.17-2008-12-10T05:29:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">05:52, 13 June 2009 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Fhue-2009-06-13T05:52:00.000Z-24.119.210.17-2008-12-10T05:29:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Fhue-2009-06-13T05:52:00.000Z-24.119.210.17-2008-12-10T05:29:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Sundive-2009-07-30T17:59:00.000Z-Fhue-2009-06-13T05:52:00.000Z"></span>Terrorism - the calculated use of violence (or the threat of violence) against civilians in order to attain goals that are political or religious / Violence - an act of aggression / Aggression - deliberately unfriendly behavior / Terrorist - a radical who employs terror as a political weapon / Terror - a person who inspires fear or dread / Sure seems like they're terrorists to me. I hope they make another raid attempt on a boat. Then they can be declared pirates and shot. That'd make for an interesting show. Where can I sign up with a research vessel? <a href="/wiki/User:Sundive" title="User:Sundive">Sundive</a> (<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Sundive&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User talk:Sundive (page does not exist)">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Whale_Wars#c-Sundive-2009-07-30T17:59:00.000Z-Fhue-2009-06-13T05:52:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:59, 30 July 2009 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Sundive-2009-07-30T17:59:00.000Z-Fhue-2009-06-13T05:52:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Sundive-2009-07-30T17:59:00.000Z-Fhue-2009-06-13T05:52:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-BarkerJr-2008-12-21T06:37:00.000Z-Villa88-2008-11-15T03:03:00.000Z"></span>The point isn't if they were kidnapped, is it? The point is that it affected international relations. I think it's worthy of noting, but doesn't have as much to do with the TV show as the organization itself, and should be on the <a href="/wiki/Sea_Shepherd" class="mw-redirect" title="Sea Shepherd">Sea Shepherd</a> page, instead. --<a href="/wiki/User:BarkerJr" title="User:BarkerJr">BarkerJr</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:BarkerJr" title="User talk:BarkerJr">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Whale_Wars#c-BarkerJr-2008-12-21T06:37:00.000Z-Villa88-2008-11-15T03:03:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">06:37, 21 December 2008 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-BarkerJr-2008-12-21T06:37:00.000Z-Villa88-2008-11-15T03:03:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-BarkerJr-2008-12-21T06:37:00.000Z-Villa88-2008-11-15T03:03:00.000Z"></span></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-66.60.137.134-2008-12-22T18:45:00.000Z-Villa88-2008-11-15T03:03:00.000Z"></span>I disagree with the above. This is worthy of mention in this article because the boarding of the ship was the focus of one of the episodes. --<a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/66.60.137.134" title="Special:Contributions/66.60.137.134">66.60.137.134</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:66.60.137.134" title="User talk:66.60.137.134">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Whale_Wars#c-66.60.137.134-2008-12-22T18:45:00.000Z-Villa88-2008-11-15T03:03:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:45, 22 December 2008 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-66.60.137.134-2008-12-22T18:45:00.000Z-Villa88-2008-11-15T03:03:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-66.60.137.134-2008-12-22T18:45:00.000Z-Villa88-2008-11-15T03:03:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-CharmsDad-2008-12-27T04:19:00.000Z-66.60.137.134-2008-12-22T18:45:00.000Z"></span>This absolutely was a focus of one show, and the one sided presentation attempting to claim these individuals were kidnapped (clearly for publicity purposes.) In spite of the claim that Wikipedia is supposed to be informational and not political, the presentation on this page suggests otherwise. This show has clearly created a great deal of animosity from once loyal Animal Planet fans.<a href="/w/index.php?title=User:CharmsDad&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:CharmsDad (page does not exist)">CharmsDad</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:CharmsDad" title="User talk:CharmsDad">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Whale_Wars#c-CharmsDad-2008-12-27T04:19:00.000Z-66.60.137.134-2008-12-22T18:45:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">04:19, 27 December 2008 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-CharmsDad-2008-12-27T04:19:00.000Z-66.60.137.134-2008-12-22T18:45:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-CharmsDad-2008-12-27T04:19:00.000Z-66.60.137.134-2008-12-22T18:45:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Fhue-2009-06-13T05:52:00.000Z-CharmsDad-2008-12-27T04:19:00.000Z"></span>your last point is questionable, at best: "..great deal of animosity from once loyal Animal Planet fans" is over-generalizing and thus misleading. <a href="/wiki/User:Fhue" class="mw-redirect" title="User:Fhue">Fhue</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Fhue" class="mw-redirect" title="User talk:Fhue">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Whale_Wars#c-Fhue-2009-06-13T05:52:00.000Z-CharmsDad-2008-12-27T04:19:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">05:52, 13 June 2009 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Fhue-2009-06-13T05:52:00.000Z-CharmsDad-2008-12-27T04:19:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Fhue-2009-06-13T05:52:00.000Z-CharmsDad-2008-12-27T04:19:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Cptnono-2009-07-30T21:01:00.000Z-Fhue-2009-06-13T05:52:00.000Z"></span>Any concerns as is? It looks fine to me. We can add a line and it could work fine, too. We could also add a wikilink to that subsections on the SSCS page.<a href="/wiki/User:Cptnono" title="User:Cptnono">Cptnono</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Cptnono" title="User talk:Cptnono">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Whale_Wars#c-Cptnono-2009-07-30T21:01:00.000Z-Fhue-2009-06-13T05:52:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:01, 30 July 2009 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Cptnono-2009-07-30T21:01:00.000Z-Fhue-2009-06-13T05:52:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Cptnono-2009-07-30T21:01:00.000Z-Fhue-2009-06-13T05:52:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-CharmsDad-2009-10-12T20:14:00.000Z-CharmsDad-2008-12-27T04:19:00.000Z"></span>Could your post demonstrate bias any more clearly? It is blatently clear that this show is one sided in its presentation. My point is both clear and accurate. Your statement is more a personal attack than differing opinion.<a href="/w/index.php?title=User:CharmsDad&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:CharmsDad (page does not exist)">CharmsDad</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:CharmsDad" title="User talk:CharmsDad">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Whale_Wars#c-CharmsDad-2009-10-12T20:14:00.000Z-CharmsDad-2008-12-27T04:19:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:14, 12 October 2009 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-CharmsDad-2009-10-12T20:14:00.000Z-CharmsDad-2008-12-27T04:19:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-CharmsDad-2009-10-12T20:14:00.000Z-CharmsDad-2008-12-27T04:19:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Vandalism_&_Rating" data-mw-thread-id="h-Vandalism_&_Rating-2008-11-25T06:44:00.000Z"><span id="Vandalism_.26_Rating"></span><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Vandalism_&_Rating-2008-11-25T06:44:00.000Z"></span>Vandalism & Rating<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Vandalism_&_Rating-2008-11-25T06:44:00.000Z"></span></h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Sparky-sama-2008-11-25T06:44:00.000Z-Vandalism_&_Rating"></span>I think we may need to consider getting an admin to (temporarily) semi-protect this article, since there are a lot of anonymous vandalism going on.<a href="/wiki/User:Sparky-sama" title="User:Sparky-sama">Kyprosサマ</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Sparky-sama" title="User talk:Sparky-sama">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Whale_Wars#c-Sparky-sama-2008-11-25T06:44:00.000Z-Vandalism_&_Rating" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">06:44, 25 November 2008 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Sparky-sama-2008-11-25T06:44:00.000Z-Vandalism_&_Rating"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Sparky-sama-2008-11-25T06:44:00.000Z-Vandalism_&_Rating"></span> </p> <dl><dd>Declined – There is not enough recent disruptive activity to justify protection at this time. If there's significantly more disruptive activity in the future, consider relisting. There are numerous good-faith IP edits here, which should not be discouraged unless really necessary. Kusma (talk) 16:26, 29 November 2008 (UTC)</dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Episode_Summary" data-mw-thread-id="h-Episode_Summary-2008-11-29T14:47:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Episode_Summary-2008-11-29T14:47:00.000Z"></span>Episode Summary<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Episode_Summary-2008-11-29T14:47:00.000Z"></span></h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Sparky-sama-2008-11-29T14:47:00.000Z-Episode_Summary"></span>Any thoughts on adding a breif summary on each episode? <a href="/wiki/User:Sparky-sama" title="User:Sparky-sama">Kyprosサマ</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Sparky-sama" title="User talk:Sparky-sama">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Whale_Wars#c-Sparky-sama-2008-11-29T14:47:00.000Z-Episode_Summary" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">14:47, 29 November 2008 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Sparky-sama-2008-11-29T14:47:00.000Z-Episode_Summary"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Sparky-sama-2008-11-29T14:47:00.000Z-Episode_Summary"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Theflyer-2008-11-30T22:10:00.000Z-Sparky-sama-2008-11-29T14:47:00.000Z"></span>No reason why not. Seems to be common practice across WP. Here is one example, <a href="/wiki/The_Office_(US_TV_series)_season_1" class="mw-redirect" title="The Office (US TV series) season 1">The Office (US TV series) season 1</a>, from which you could get the episode table and begin compiling the info. <a href="/wiki/User:Theflyer" title="User:Theflyer">Theflyer</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Theflyer" title="User talk:Theflyer">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Whale_Wars#c-Theflyer-2008-11-30T22:10:00.000Z-Sparky-sama-2008-11-29T14:47:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:10, 30 November 2008 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Theflyer-2008-11-30T22:10:00.000Z-Sparky-sama-2008-11-29T14:47:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Theflyer-2008-11-30T22:10:00.000Z-Sparky-sama-2008-11-29T14:47:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Mihirangi_Portion" data-mw-thread-id="h-Mihirangi_Portion-2008-12-10T08:17:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Mihirangi_Portion-2008-12-10T08:17:00.000Z"></span>Mihirangi Portion<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Mihirangi_Portion-2008-12-10T08:17:00.000Z"></span></h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-SSPirate-2008-12-10T08:17:00.000Z-Mihirangi_Portion"></span>To the moderators- Why has this been taken off? "Also controversial on the voyage was the decision to dedicate an entire day of Operation Migaloo to creating a music video by singer <a href="/w/index.php?title=Mihirangi&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Mihirangi (page does not exist)">Mihirangi</a> in the Southern Ocean for her single <i>No War</i>.<sup id="cite_ref-1" class="reference"><a href="#cite_note-1"><span class="cite-bracket">[</span>1<span class="cite-bracket">]</span></a></sup> Mihirangi was aboard the <a href="/wiki/MY_Steve_Irwin" title="MY Steve Irwin">MV <i>Steve Irwin</i></a> to support its cause, as the <a href="/wiki/Sea_Shepherd_Conservation_Society" title="Sea Shepherd Conservation Society">Sea Shepherd Conservation Society</a> commonly has celebrities involved in their campaigns.<sup id="cite_ref-2" class="reference"><a href="#cite_note-2"><span class="cite-bracket">[</span>2<span class="cite-bracket">]</span></a></sup> In return for her support, she was given access to the cameras and the helicopter to film her video, which was entirely acquired and purchased with money from donors, all of which she then used to locate and be brought on top of an iceberg, where she filmed her video. She soon left the crew shortly after the MV <i>Steve Irwin</i> returned to port to fix its engine roughly halfway through its voyage for unknown reasons. Although this was not covered in the final cut of the show, she was filmed by the camera crew and edited out during production of the series." </p><p>It has been cited, and vandalized, and criticized by lots of people. That makes it controversial- and also true. To any members of the Sea Shepherd Conservation Society- Why don't you want people to know about this?? (<a href="/wiki/User:SSPirate" title="User:SSPirate">SSPirate</a> (<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:SSPirate&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User talk:SSPirate (page does not exist)">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Whale_Wars#c-SSPirate-2008-12-10T08:17:00.000Z-Mihirangi_Portion" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">08:17, 10 December 2008 (UTC)</a>)<span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-SSPirate-2008-12-10T08:17:00.000Z-Mihirangi_Portion"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-SSPirate-2008-12-10T08:17:00.000Z-Mihirangi_Portion"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Terrillja-2008-12-10T12:12:00.000Z-SSPirate-2008-12-10T08:17:00.000Z"></span>It was taken off because it is original research. See <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:OR" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:OR">WP:OR</a> and the section on synthesis in particular. You took a source saying she was going south and a music video link (of questionable copyright), and somehow came up with the fact that she used SS resources and they spent a day shooting her video. Nowhere in the sources does it say that, so therefore it is original research, and it was removed as such. --<a href="/wiki/User:Terrillja" title="User:Terrillja"><font color="003300">Terrillja</font></a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Terrillja" title="User talk:Terrillja"><font color="black"><sub> talk</sub></font></a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Whale_Wars#c-Terrillja-2008-12-10T12:12:00.000Z-SSPirate-2008-12-10T08:17:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">12:12, 10 December 2008 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Terrillja-2008-12-10T12:12:00.000Z-SSPirate-2008-12-10T08:17:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Terrillja-2008-12-10T12:12:00.000Z-SSPirate-2008-12-10T08:17:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-SSPirate-2008-12-12T09:01:00.000Z-Terrillja-2008-12-10T12:12:00.000Z"></span>Ok, for the sake of all the folks reading this- and following all WP rules, including synthesis and Original Research, I'm going to lay down my case very carefully(<a href="/wiki/User:SSPirate" title="User:SSPirate">SSPirate</a> (<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:SSPirate&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User talk:SSPirate (page does not exist)">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Whale_Wars#c-SSPirate-2008-12-12T09:01:00.000Z-Terrillja-2008-12-10T12:12:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">09:01, 12 December 2008 (UTC)</a>)<span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-SSPirate-2008-12-12T09:01:00.000Z-Terrillja-2008-12-10T12:12:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-SSPirate-2008-12-12T09:01:00.000Z-Terrillja-2008-12-10T12:12:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-SSPirate-2008-12-12T09:01:00.000Z-Mihirangi_Portion"></span>(1)We know that Mihirangi planned to go aboard, and made it aboard the ship for Operation Migaloo. This is referenced <a rel="nofollow" class="external free" href="http://www.seashepherd.org/news-and-media/news-071119-1.html">http://www.seashepherd.org/news-and-media/news-071119-1.html</a> That is her planning to get aboard. This is her blog post <i>while aboard the ship</i> <<a rel="nofollow" class="external free" href="http://www.seashepherd.org/migaloo/blog/blog_071216_Mihirangi.html">http://www.seashepherd.org/migaloo/blog/blog_071216_Mihirangi.html</a> so one could imply that she actually made it aboard. Finally, these are multiple articles <a rel="nofollow" class="external free" href="http://www.goldcoast.com.au/article/2008/04/22/10285_gossip-news.html">http://www.goldcoast.com.au/article/2008/04/22/10285_gossip-news.html</a> <a rel="nofollow" class="external free" href="http://www.thedaily.com.au/news/2008/may/03/born-music/">http://www.thedaily.com.au/news/2008/may/03/born-music/</a> <a rel="nofollow" class="external free" href="http://www.echo.net.au/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=82&Itemid=542">http://www.echo.net.au/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=82&Itemid=542</a> confirming that not only did she go down to antactica with the sea shepherd, but she also shot her video there. Furthermore <a rel="nofollow" class="external free" href="http://www.echo.net.au/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=82&Itemid=542">http://www.echo.net.au/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=82&Itemid=542</a> states that <i>Whilst down there she was fortunate to film footage for her new clip working with producer Peter Brown</i>. Which leads me to my second point (2)Peter Brown is/was the 1st Mate during the Operation Migaloo <a rel="nofollow" class="external free" href="http://animalplanet.mlogic.mobi/me_ww/detail/27696821;jsessionid=D64F10C9E15D1C9473377F8632122C06.anmplt">http://animalplanet.mlogic.mobi/me_ww/detail/27696821;jsessionid=D64F10C9E15D1C9473377F8632122C06.anmplt</a>. If it was produced by him, that would certainly imply that he spent time with Mihirangi working on the video while on board the Steve Irwin. However, being that the Sea Shepherd is 100% funded by donations <a rel="nofollow" class="external free" href="http://seashepherdgig.com/">http://seashepherdgig.com/</a> "<i>To this day, Sea Shepherd remains totally funded by donation and staffed by volunteers.</i>", that implies that whatever resources used was donated by their financiers, because Mihirangi was a volunteer <a rel="nofollow" class="external free" href="http://www.seashepherd.org/news-and-media/news-080102-1.html">http://www.seashepherd.org/news-and-media/news-080102-1.html</a> "<i>The consequences of returning to port in the middle of a campaign with a volunteer crew are that we were bound to lose a few. ... Mihirangi, Brad Axiak, and Simon King had to leave because the delay cut into the time in February when they had events or appointments scheduled</i>", and not paying to be aboard. Because there was only one helicopter on board, and Mihirangi used it for the express purpose of videotaping her music video, its safe to say she didn't bring it on board. About the only thing I can't prove is the exact time it took to actually film the video. Although getting ready, flying up to the top of the iceberg, then further flying while filming, then flying back would be a pretty substantial amount of time. For the sake of argument, I'm going to say something like "while aboard the Steve Irwin, Mihirangi and 1st Mate Peter Brown took a detour from their campaign to film a music video for Mihirangi's song <i>No War</i>."(<a href="/wiki/User:SSPirate" title="User:SSPirate">SSPirate</a> (<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:SSPirate&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User talk:SSPirate (page does not exist)">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Whale_Wars#c-SSPirate-2008-12-12T09:01:00.000Z-Mihirangi_Portion" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">09:01, 12 December 2008 (UTC)</a>)<span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-SSPirate-2008-12-12T09:01:00.000Z-Mihirangi_Portion"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-SSPirate-2008-12-12T09:01:00.000Z-Mihirangi_Portion"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-SSPirate-2008-12-12T09:01:00.000Z-SSPirate-2008-12-12T09:01:00.000Z"></span>To recap- We've established that Mihirangi planned to board the Steve Irwin. She got aboard the ship. She made a music video while the Steve Irwin was supposed to be on campaigning(Notice the reference was in Feb that she left- the campaign ended in March...). She used the resources aboard the ship that were donated to facilitate the intervention of whaling. After looking at all this evidence (there are 8 references for that one topic alone) its pretty easy to infer that she received all of these resources in lieu of her support <i>quid pro quo</i>. Because she was aboard, and the Whale Wars crew was aboard as well, she must have been at some point filmed by the crew. Because she didn't actually make it on the show implies she was edited out. If anyone has any objections after this "proof" please post your hesitations here.(<a href="/wiki/User:SSPirate" title="User:SSPirate">SSPirate</a> (<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:SSPirate&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User talk:SSPirate (page does not exist)">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Whale_Wars#c-SSPirate-2008-12-12T09:01:00.000Z-SSPirate-2008-12-12T09:01:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">09:01, 12 December 2008 (UTC)</a>)<span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-SSPirate-2008-12-12T09:01:00.000Z-SSPirate-2008-12-12T09:01:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-SSPirate-2008-12-12T09:01:00.000Z-SSPirate-2008-12-12T09:01:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Seaphoto-2008-12-14T01:53:00.000Z-SSPirate-2008-12-12T09:01:00.000Z"></span>I added a fact tag to the controversy portion. I think the fact that a video was made is well documented. It needs a source to show that the decision to assist in the making of the video was controversial however, otherwise it should be included in the general section about that particular trip.<a href="/wiki/User:Seaphoto" title="User:Seaphoto"><font color="3333cc"><b>Sea</b></font><font color="330099"><b>photo</b></font></a><sup><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Seaphoto" title="User talk:Seaphoto"><font color="3333cc">Talk</font></a></sup> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Whale_Wars#c-Seaphoto-2008-12-14T01:53:00.000Z-SSPirate-2008-12-12T09:01:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:53, 14 December 2008 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Seaphoto-2008-12-14T01:53:00.000Z-SSPirate-2008-12-12T09:01:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Seaphoto-2008-12-14T01:53:00.000Z-SSPirate-2008-12-12T09:01:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Buytric_Acid_censorship" data-mw-thread-id="h-Buytric_Acid_censorship-2008-12-11T05:14:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Buytric_Acid_censorship-2008-12-11T05:14:00.000Z"></span>Buytric Acid censorship<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Buytric_Acid_censorship-2008-12-11T05:14:00.000Z"></span></h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-24.119.210.17-2008-12-11T05:14:00.000Z-Buytric_Acid_censorship"></span>Why has the statistics of Buytric acid keep getting removed? It is confirmed to he a harmful substance, potentially deadly to sea creatures. <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">—Preceding <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Signatures" title="Wikipedia:Signatures">unsigned</a> comment added by <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/24.119.210.17" title="Special:Contributions/24.119.210.17">24.119.210.17</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:24.119.210.17" title="User talk:24.119.210.17">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Whale_Wars#c-24.119.210.17-2008-12-11T05:14:00.000Z-Buytric_Acid_censorship" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">05:14, 11 December 2008 (UTC)</a></span><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-24.119.210.17-2008-12-11T05:14:00.000Z-Buytric_Acid_censorship"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-24.119.210.17-2008-12-11T05:14:00.000Z-Buytric_Acid_censorship"></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Criticism_of_Whale_Wars_television_series,_Ok_--_Criticism_of_Sea_Shepherd,_No." data-mw-thread-id="h-Criticism_of_Whale_Wars_television_series,_Ok_--_Criticism_of_Sea_Shepherd,_No.-2008-12-19T06:39:00.000Z"><span id="Criticism_of_Whale_Wars_television_series.2C_Ok_--_Criticism_of_Sea_Shepherd.2C_No."></span><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Criticism_of_Whale_Wars_television_series,_Ok_--_Criticism_of_Sea_Shepherd,_No.-2008-12-19T06:39:00.000Z"></span>Criticism of Whale Wars television series, Ok -- Criticism of Sea Shepherd, No.<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Criticism_of_Whale_Wars_television_series,_Ok_--_Criticism_of_Sea_Shepherd,_No.-2008-12-19T06:39:00.000Z"></span></h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-TheFSaviator-2009-06-05T23:42:00.000Z-Criticism_of_Whale_Wars_television_series,_Ok_--_Criticism_of_Sea_Shepherd,_No."></span>"'Critic response has been generally positive'"?! This is blatantly biased, IMO. check this link <a rel="nofollow" class="external free" href="http://www.nydailynews.com/entertainment/tv/2008/11/06/2008-11-06_whale_wars_reality_show_gets_a_seaplus.html">http://www.nydailynews.com/entertainment/tv/2008/11/06/2008-11-06_whale_wars_reality_show_gets_a_seaplus.html</a>. Not so positive. The way all of the reviews are shown in mediate context feels like an ad on animal planet. <a href="/wiki/User:TheFSaviator" title="User:TheFSaviator">-|->TheFSaviator-|-></a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:TheFSaviator" title="User talk:TheFSaviator">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Whale_Wars#c-TheFSaviator-2009-06-05T23:42:00.000Z-Criticism_of_Whale_Wars_television_series,_Ok_--_Criticism_of_Sea_Shepherd,_No." class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:42, 5 June 2009 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-TheFSaviator-2009-06-05T23:42:00.000Z-Criticism_of_Whale_Wars_television_series,_Ok_--_Criticism_of_Sea_Shepherd,_No."><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-TheFSaviator-2009-06-05T23:42:00.000Z-Criticism_of_Whale_Wars_television_series,_Ok_--_Criticism_of_Sea_Shepherd,_No."></span> </p><p><br/><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-RomaC-2008-12-19T06:39:00.000Z-Criticism_of_Whale_Wars_television_series,_Ok_--_Criticism_of_Sea_Shepherd,_No."></span> Isn't this an article about a television show? Why is there a section criticizing a Sea Shepherd's campaign? Propose removal of this irrelevant and unsourced content. <a href="/wiki/User:RomaC" title="User:RomaC">RomaC</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:RomaC" title="User talk:RomaC">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Whale_Wars#c-RomaC-2008-12-19T06:39:00.000Z-Criticism_of_Whale_Wars_television_series,_Ok_--_Criticism_of_Sea_Shepherd,_No." class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">06:39, 19 December 2008 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-RomaC-2008-12-19T06:39:00.000Z-Criticism_of_Whale_Wars_television_series,_Ok_--_Criticism_of_Sea_Shepherd,_No."><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-RomaC-2008-12-19T06:39:00.000Z-Criticism_of_Whale_Wars_television_series,_Ok_--_Criticism_of_Sea_Shepherd,_No."></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Seaphoto-2008-12-19T16:15:00.000Z-RomaC-2008-12-19T06:39:00.000Z"></span>Valid point. While there is no doubt that this is a controversial organization, the appropriate place to list such criticism would be the article on the Sea Shepherd's activities. The only thing I would leave, <b>if</b> it can be documented, would be the criticism over the music video, as the decision to edit it out of the show reflects on the program.<a href="/wiki/User:Seaphoto" title="User:Seaphoto"><font color="3333cc"><b>Sea</b></font><font color="330099"><b>photo</b></font></a><sup><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Seaphoto" title="User talk:Seaphoto"><font color="3333cc">Talk</font></a></sup> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Whale_Wars#c-Seaphoto-2008-12-19T16:15:00.000Z-RomaC-2008-12-19T06:39:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:15, 19 December 2008 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Seaphoto-2008-12-19T16:15:00.000Z-RomaC-2008-12-19T06:39:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Seaphoto-2008-12-19T16:15:00.000Z-RomaC-2008-12-19T06:39:00.000Z"></span></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-BarkerJr-2008-12-21T06:44:00.000Z-RomaC-2008-12-19T06:39:00.000Z"></span>Lets not remove it entirely, as it provides a good launching point to the other article. The section should be trimmed to a single paragraph. Text under "main article" notes is generally just a couple sentences summarizing the content of the other page. We don't want duplicate content. --<a href="/wiki/User:BarkerJr" title="User:BarkerJr">BarkerJr</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:BarkerJr" title="User talk:BarkerJr">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Whale_Wars#c-BarkerJr-2008-12-21T06:44:00.000Z-RomaC-2008-12-19T06:39:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">06:44, 21 December 2008 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-BarkerJr-2008-12-21T06:44:00.000Z-RomaC-2008-12-19T06:39:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-BarkerJr-2008-12-21T06:44:00.000Z-RomaC-2008-12-19T06:39:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-RobertGary1-2008-12-21T07:10:00.000Z-RomaC-2008-12-19T06:39:00.000Z"></span>I agree. There is enough information on the criticism of <a href="/wiki/Sea_Shepherd" class="mw-redirect" title="Sea Shepherd">Sea Shepherd</a> on their page. This page should focus on the TV show. --<a href="/w/index.php?title=User:RobertGary1&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:RobertGary1 (page does not exist)">RobertGary1</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:RobertGary1" title="User talk:RobertGary1">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Whale_Wars#c-RobertGary1-2008-12-21T07:10:00.000Z-RomaC-2008-12-19T06:39:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">07:10, 21 December 2008 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-RobertGary1-2008-12-21T07:10:00.000Z-RomaC-2008-12-19T06:39:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-RobertGary1-2008-12-21T07:10:00.000Z-RomaC-2008-12-19T06:39:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Scottsteffens-2008-12-22T07:15:00.000Z-RomaC-2008-12-19T06:39:00.000Z"></span>I agree. Much of the criticism of the Sea Sheperd is unsourced and too irrelevant for the TV series page. And the music video portion needs to be clearer about why it's controversial. <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Scottsteffens&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Scottsteffens (page does not exist)">scotts</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Scottsteffens" title="User talk:Scottsteffens">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Whale_Wars#c-Scottsteffens-2008-12-22T07:15:00.000Z-RomaC-2008-12-19T06:39:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">07:15, 22 December 2008 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Scottsteffens-2008-12-22T07:15:00.000Z-RomaC-2008-12-19T06:39:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Scottsteffens-2008-12-22T07:15:00.000Z-RomaC-2008-12-19T06:39:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-RomaC-2008-12-23T01:09:00.000Z-Criticism_of_Whale_Wars_television_series,_Ok_--_Criticism_of_Sea_Shepherd,_No."></span>Removed the content per this discussion. There remains only (yet unsourced) specific criticism of the show. About the music video, I saw no sources that were critical. Reports in the bigger media seemed <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="http://www.thedaily.com.au/news/2008/may/03/born-music/">favourable</a>. <a href="/wiki/User:RomaC" title="User:RomaC">RomaC</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:RomaC" title="User talk:RomaC">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Whale_Wars#c-RomaC-2008-12-23T01:09:00.000Z-Criticism_of_Whale_Wars_television_series,_Ok_--_Criticism_of_Sea_Shepherd,_No." class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:09, 23 December 2008 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-RomaC-2008-12-23T01:09:00.000Z-Criticism_of_Whale_Wars_television_series,_Ok_--_Criticism_of_Sea_Shepherd,_No."><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-RomaC-2008-12-23T01:09:00.000Z-Criticism_of_Whale_Wars_television_series,_Ok_--_Criticism_of_Sea_Shepherd,_No."></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Seaphoto-2008-12-23T05:06:00.000Z-RomaC-2008-12-23T01:09:00.000Z"></span>Good edit. We need to take a look at the shooting section as well, which needs to be both shorter and better referenced as well. Most of the criticism belongs on the Sea Shepherd page, not on this article.<a href="/wiki/User:Seaphoto" title="User:Seaphoto"><font color="3333cc"><b>Sea</b></font><font color="330099"><b>photo</b></font></a><sup><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Seaphoto" title="User talk:Seaphoto"><font color="3333cc">Talk</font></a></sup> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Whale_Wars#c-Seaphoto-2008-12-23T05:06:00.000Z-RomaC-2008-12-23T01:09:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">05:06, 23 December 2008 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Seaphoto-2008-12-23T05:06:00.000Z-RomaC-2008-12-23T01:09:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Seaphoto-2008-12-23T05:06:00.000Z-RomaC-2008-12-23T01:09:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-CharmsDad-2008-12-27T04:15:00.000Z-Criticism_of_Whale_Wars_television_series,_Ok_--_Criticism_of_Sea_Shepherd,_No."></span>The comment that criticism has come largely from parties normally critical of Sea Sheppard is blatently false. Numerous sources are easy to find, many from conservation organizations and their supporters, which are highly critical of this show and its one sided blatant endorsement of these terrorist activities.<a href="/w/index.php?title=User:CharmsDad&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:CharmsDad (page does not exist)">CharmsDad</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:CharmsDad" title="User talk:CharmsDad">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Whale_Wars#c-CharmsDad-2008-12-27T04:15:00.000Z-Criticism_of_Whale_Wars_television_series,_Ok_--_Criticism_of_Sea_Shepherd,_No." class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">04:15, 27 December 2008 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-CharmsDad-2008-12-27T04:15:00.000Z-Criticism_of_Whale_Wars_television_series,_Ok_--_Criticism_of_Sea_Shepherd,_No."><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-CharmsDad-2008-12-27T04:15:00.000Z-Criticism_of_Whale_Wars_television_series,_Ok_--_Criticism_of_Sea_Shepherd,_No."></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Fhue-2009-06-13T06:10:00.000Z-CharmsDad-2008-12-27T04:15:00.000Z"></span>the show is not endorsing the SS efforts, they are documenting it -- subtle difference, perhaps, but important one nonetheless. and to repeat what i've written above: they're far from terrorists. the correct term is activists, whether or not you agree with their (non-violent) tactics. <a href="/wiki/User:Fhue" class="mw-redirect" title="User:Fhue">Fhue</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Fhue" class="mw-redirect" title="User talk:Fhue">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Whale_Wars#c-Fhue-2009-06-13T06:10:00.000Z-CharmsDad-2008-12-27T04:15:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">06:10, 13 June 2009 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Fhue-2009-06-13T06:10:00.000Z-CharmsDad-2008-12-27T04:15:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Fhue-2009-06-13T06:10:00.000Z-CharmsDad-2008-12-27T04:15:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd><ol><li><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-NRen2k5-2009-06-15T01:08:00.000Z-Fhue-2009-06-13T06:10:00.000Z"></span>Wrong. Sea Shepherd does exert a certain amount of editorial control over the series.</li> <li>They absolutely fit the definition of “terrorists”; the only reason we don’t use the term is because it’s pejorative (read: POV). To quote a fellow wikipedian, “One man’s terrorist is another man’s freedom fighter”.</li> <li>SSCS rams, boards, launches harmful chemicals at and scuttles whalers’, fishers’ and sealers’ ships. To call their actions “non-violent” is just downright ridiculous. — <em><a href="/wiki/User:NRen2k5" class="mw-redirect" title="User:NRen2k5">NRen2k5</a></em><sup>(<a href="/wiki/User_talk:NRen2k5" class="mw-redirect" title="User talk:NRen2k5">TALK</a>)</sup>, <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Whale_Wars#c-NRen2k5-2009-06-15T01:08:00.000Z-Fhue-2009-06-13T06:10:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:08, 15 June 2009 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-NRen2k5-2009-06-15T01:08:00.000Z-Fhue-2009-06-13T06:10:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-NRen2k5-2009-06-15T01:08:00.000Z-Fhue-2009-06-13T06:10:00.000Z"></span></li></ol></dd></dl></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><ol><li><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Fhue-2009-06-15T19:42:00.000Z-NRen2k5-2009-06-15T01:08:00.000Z"></span>What's your source on this claim? From what I've read and seen in interviews, the film crew is independent of the SSCS. Take the shooting controversy, for example. The show included Watson's allegations, but they also balanced it with skepticism. Judging from the footage alone, I don't believe he was shot.</li> <li>and 3) The terms "terrorist" and "violent" denote, first and foremost, more than just property damage. Again you're arguing for the wider connotations, which is just as misleading as "non-violent" .. but what is the middle ground? "eco-terrorist" is too close to the former.</li></ol> <dl><dd>Unfortunately, no one is coming up with better, more neutral terms. I use "non-violent" to mean that they don't harm people, but admittedly it is lacking. And I agree they do use violent <a href="/wiki/Direct_action" title="Direct action">direct action</a> tactics, but it is restrained in the sense that they dont attack the people, just the property. so "violent" is misleading, as well. <a href="/wiki/User:Fhue" class="mw-redirect" title="User:Fhue">Fhue</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Fhue" class="mw-redirect" title="User talk:Fhue">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Whale_Wars#c-Fhue-2009-06-15T19:42:00.000Z-NRen2k5-2009-06-15T01:08:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:42, 15 June 2009 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Fhue-2009-06-15T19:42:00.000Z-NRen2k5-2009-06-15T01:08:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Fhue-2009-06-15T19:42:00.000Z-NRen2k5-2009-06-15T01:08:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-CharmsDad-2009-10-12T06:58:00.000Z-Fhue-2009-06-15T19:42:00.000Z"></span>The film crew is from Discovery/Animal Planet. Animal Planet (as part of The Discovery Channel) produces and films this program (as noted in various articles on Discovery Channels web site example: <a rel="nofollow" class="external free" href="http://www.discoverychannel.co.uk/web/whale-wars/about/about-whale-wars/">http://www.discoverychannel.co.uk/web/whale-wars/about/about-whale-wars/</a>). Attempting to disable the propulsion, guidance, control and/or communication capabilities of a ship at sea is a direct action threatening the lives of all individuals on that ship. Attempting to board a ship underway at sea without permission is, by definition, an act of piracy. That is not restraint and these individuals are terrorist by any definition. Animal Planet's one sided presentation makes it clear their corporate position is to endorse these actions no matter what feeble "disclaimer" they post to disguise it. It would be appropriate to note in the main article after the Animal Planet disclaimer that that channel produces the program and has control over content.<a href="/w/index.php?title=User:CharmsDad&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:CharmsDad (page does not exist)">CharmsDad</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:CharmsDad" title="User talk:CharmsDad">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Whale_Wars#c-CharmsDad-2009-10-12T06:58:00.000Z-Fhue-2009-06-15T19:42:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">06:58, 12 October 2009 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-CharmsDad-2009-10-12T06:58:00.000Z-Fhue-2009-06-15T19:42:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-CharmsDad-2009-10-12T06:58:00.000Z-Fhue-2009-06-15T19:42:00.000Z"></span></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-24.235.213.213-2009-11-05T00:31:00.000Z-Fhue-2009-06-15T19:42:00.000Z"></span>Spending several years in Marine Search and Rescue any attempt to damage a vessle on the water threatens the lives of all people onboard. The water is an harsh mistress and the slightest failure, especially in extreme conditions, can mean death to everyone involved. Attacking the vessle is terrorism. Boarding is Piracy. <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">—Preceding <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Signatures" title="Wikipedia:Signatures">unsigned</a> comment added by <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/24.235.213.213" title="Special:Contributions/24.235.213.213">24.235.213.213</a> (<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:24.235.213.213&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User talk:24.235.213.213 (page does not exist)">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Whale_Wars#c-24.235.213.213-2009-11-05T00:31:00.000Z-Fhue-2009-06-15T19:42:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:31, 5 November 2009 (UTC)</a><span data-mw-comment-end="c-24.235.213.213-2009-11-05T00:31:00.000Z-Fhue-2009-06-15T19:42:00.000Z"></span></span><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-24.235.213.213-2009-11-05T00:31:00.000Z-Fhue-2009-06-15T19:42:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-CharmsDad-2009-10-12T20:18:00.000Z-CharmsDad-2008-12-27T04:15:00.000Z"></span>None of these responses address the original point - the statement on the main page that criticism has come largely from parties normally critical of Sea Sheppard is an unsubstantiated opinion. There are numerous criticisms of this show based on its one sided presentation. Apparently opinion is accepted on Wikipedia if it expresses the "right" view.<a href="/w/index.php?title=User:CharmsDad&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:CharmsDad (page does not exist)">CharmsDad</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:CharmsDad" title="User talk:CharmsDad">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Whale_Wars#c-CharmsDad-2009-10-12T20:18:00.000Z-CharmsDad-2008-12-27T04:15:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:18, 12 October 2009 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-CharmsDad-2009-10-12T20:18:00.000Z-CharmsDad-2008-12-27T04:15:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-CharmsDad-2009-10-12T20:18:00.000Z-CharmsDad-2008-12-27T04:15:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Fhue-2009-06-14T20:42:00.000Z-Criticism_of_Whale_Wars_television_series,_Ok_--_Criticism_of_Sea_Shepherd,_No."></span>Can we somehow merge the two sections on criticism? The second section (simply entitled "Criticism") is primarily based on forum comments. Personally I dont object to including a summary of negative commentary, but it should be qualified: viewers who criticize the show are not automatically promoted to status of "critics." (I just made the semantic changes, but I'm not sure if this second section still stands up to scrutiny.) <a href="/wiki/User:Fhue" class="mw-redirect" title="User:Fhue">Fhue</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Fhue" class="mw-redirect" title="User talk:Fhue">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Whale_Wars#c-Fhue-2009-06-14T20:42:00.000Z-Criticism_of_Whale_Wars_television_series,_Ok_--_Criticism_of_Sea_Shepherd,_No." class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:42, 14 June 2009 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Fhue-2009-06-14T20:42:00.000Z-Criticism_of_Whale_Wars_television_series,_Ok_--_Criticism_of_Sea_Shepherd,_No."><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Fhue-2009-06-14T20:42:00.000Z-Criticism_of_Whale_Wars_television_series,_Ok_--_Criticism_of_Sea_Shepherd,_No."></span> </p> <dl><dd><dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Cptnono-2009-06-15T20:07:00.000Z-Fhue-2009-06-14T20:42:00.000Z"></span>Good catch. Forum postings are not appropriate sources. Please see my recent edit summary on the article.<a href="/wiki/User:Cptnono" title="User:Cptnono">Cptnono</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Cptnono" title="User talk:Cptnono">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Whale_Wars#c-Cptnono-2009-06-15T20:07:00.000Z-Fhue-2009-06-14T20:42:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:07, 15 June 2009 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Cptnono-2009-06-15T20:07:00.000Z-Fhue-2009-06-14T20:42:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Cptnono-2009-06-15T20:07:00.000Z-Fhue-2009-06-14T20:42:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Cptnono-2009-06-19T04:58:00.000Z-Cptnono-2009-06-15T20:07:00.000Z"></span>After some thought, I agree with you. The 1 source in the section is used slightly out of context (see below though). There is a whole section criticizing the group at the Sea Shepherd article. Unfortunately, it is easy to lump it in here since most people probably Google whale wars instead of the group. I believe the best way to let the reader know that there is substantial amounts of criticism is to work the Wikilink back in (I'm not sure if it is OK to have a subsection with just a link. Anyone else know for sure?) I also think it would be very easy to change the format on the reception subsection. The WSJ review has plenty of critique directly related to the show so maybe we should expand the section past the quotes since there were several other aspects not mentioned in the single line.</dd> <dd>Also, we need to figure out how to put the above mentioned source from the cameraman in somewhere because it gives amazing insight to the actual production: Hinckley, David (6 November 2008), "Television Review – ‘Whale Wars’ reality show gets a sea-plus", NY Daily News <a rel="nofollow" class="external free" href="http://www.huffingtonpost.com/ashley-dunn/i-wasnt-ready-to-drown-so_b_211559.html">http://www.huffingtonpost.com/ashley-dunn/i-wasnt-ready-to-drown-so_b_211559.html</a> I feel like a hippie now :( <a href="/wiki/User:Cptnono" title="User:Cptnono">Cptnono</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Cptnono" title="User talk:Cptnono">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Whale_Wars#c-Cptnono-2009-06-19T04:58:00.000Z-Cptnono-2009-06-15T20:07:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">04:58, 19 June 2009 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Cptnono-2009-06-19T04:58:00.000Z-Cptnono-2009-06-15T20:07:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Cptnono-2009-06-19T04:58:00.000Z-Cptnono-2009-06-15T20:07:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Considerable_and_excessive_edits_by_User:Cubrilovic" data-mw-thread-id="h-Considerable_and_excessive_edits_by_User:Cubrilovic-2008-12-23T11:52:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Considerable_and_excessive_edits_by_User:Cubrilovic-2008-12-23T11:52:00.000Z"></span>Considerable and excessive edits by User:Cubrilovic<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Considerable_and_excessive_edits_by_User:Cubrilovic-2008-12-23T11:52:00.000Z"></span></h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><a href="/wiki/User:Cubrilovic" title="User:Cubrilovic"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-66.74.135.168-2008-12-23T11:52:00.000Z-Considerable_and_excessive_edits_by_User:Cubrilovic"></span>User:Cubrilovic</a> has replaced so much content edited by so many with only his own. <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">—Preceding <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Signatures" title="Wikipedia:Signatures">unsigned</a> comment added by <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/66.74.135.168" title="Special:Contributions/66.74.135.168">66.74.135.168</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:66.74.135.168" title="User talk:66.74.135.168">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Whale_Wars#c-66.74.135.168-2008-12-23T11:52:00.000Z-Considerable_and_excessive_edits_by_User:Cubrilovic" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">11:52, 23 December 2008 (UTC)</a></span><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-66.74.135.168-2008-12-23T11:52:00.000Z-Considerable_and_excessive_edits_by_User:Cubrilovic"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-66.74.135.168-2008-12-23T11:52:00.000Z-Considerable_and_excessive_edits_by_User:Cubrilovic"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Seaphoto-2008-12-24T03:54:00.000Z-66.74.135.168-2008-12-23T11:52:00.000Z"></span>That is the nature of Wikipedia - it is a dynamic encyclopedia, which everyone can edit. The question is not if someone re-writes an article, but if that edit stands up. Remember <b>you</b> have the ability to edit the article as well! <a href="/wiki/User:Seaphoto" title="User:Seaphoto"><font color="3333cc"><b>Sea</b></font><font color="330099"><b>photo</b></font></a><sup><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Seaphoto" title="User talk:Seaphoto"><font color="3333cc">Talk</font></a></sup> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Whale_Wars#c-Seaphoto-2008-12-24T03:54:00.000Z-66.74.135.168-2008-12-23T11:52:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">03:54, 24 December 2008 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Seaphoto-2008-12-24T03:54:00.000Z-66.74.135.168-2008-12-23T11:52:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Seaphoto-2008-12-24T03:54:00.000Z-66.74.135.168-2008-12-23T11:52:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Animal_Planet_disclaimer" data-mw-thread-id="h-Animal_Planet_disclaimer-2008-12-27T04:25:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Animal_Planet_disclaimer-2008-12-27T04:25:00.000Z"></span>Animal Planet disclaimer<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Animal_Planet_disclaimer-2008-12-27T04:25:00.000Z"></span></h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-CharmsDad-2008-12-27T04:25:00.000Z-Animal_Planet_disclaimer"></span>I think it should be noted that, though they provide this (rather weak) disclaimer, Animal Planet created, developed and produces this show. As such, they have complete creative control over the show's content so making any claim that it does not represent their views is rather feeble.<a href="/w/index.php?title=User:CharmsDad&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:CharmsDad (page does not exist)">CharmsDad</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:CharmsDad" title="User talk:CharmsDad">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Whale_Wars#c-CharmsDad-2008-12-27T04:25:00.000Z-Animal_Planet_disclaimer" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">04:25, 27 December 2008 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-CharmsDad-2008-12-27T04:25:00.000Z-Animal_Planet_disclaimer"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-CharmsDad-2008-12-27T04:25:00.000Z-Animal_Planet_disclaimer"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Fhue-2009-06-13T06:16:00.000Z-CharmsDad-2008-12-27T04:25:00.000Z"></span>please provide your source for claiming that AP "created [and] developed" the show. As far as i can tell, they document the SS actions and edit the film later for airing. According to wikipedia's own pages, <a href="/wiki/Sea_Shepherd_Conservation_Society" title="Sea Shepherd Conservation Society">Sea Shepherd Conservation Society</a> (1977) pre-dates <a href="/wiki/Animal_Planet" title="Animal Planet">Animal Planet</a> (1996). <a href="/wiki/User:Fhue" class="mw-redirect" title="User:Fhue">Fhue</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Fhue" class="mw-redirect" title="User talk:Fhue">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Whale_Wars#c-Fhue-2009-06-13T06:16:00.000Z-CharmsDad-2008-12-27T04:25:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">06:16, 13 June 2009 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Fhue-2009-06-13T06:16:00.000Z-CharmsDad-2008-12-27T04:25:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Fhue-2009-06-13T06:16:00.000Z-CharmsDad-2008-12-27T04:25:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-CharmsDad-2009-10-12T07:08:00.000Z-Fhue-2009-06-13T06:16:00.000Z"></span>Per the numerous articles on Discovery's web site and per your own post, Animal Planet films the events (you say "document") and edits the film for airing. That means they are controlling the content and how it is presented AND, by not presenting opposing views, are controlling the message. Articles on Discovery's web site clearly record the history of development and production for this show. The show is a separate entity from the organization it is "documenting". Do you not understand the difference?<a href="/w/index.php?title=User:CharmsDad&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:CharmsDad (page does not exist)">CharmsDad</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:CharmsDad" title="User talk:CharmsDad">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Whale_Wars#c-CharmsDad-2009-10-12T07:08:00.000Z-Fhue-2009-06-13T06:16:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">07:08, 12 October 2009 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-CharmsDad-2009-10-12T07:08:00.000Z-Fhue-2009-06-13T06:16:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-CharmsDad-2009-10-12T07:08:00.000Z-Fhue-2009-06-13T06:16:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Seaphoto-2009-11-05T02:44:00.000Z-CharmsDad-2009-10-12T07:08:00.000Z"></span>If your point is that the show has a particular POV, I think that it is fair. The hard part is to document that in a neutral way suitable for Wikipedia, avoiding OR (such as comparing percentages of time given to either side to present their message). The ideal method would be to find a verifiable major media criticism of the show and work that in.--<a href="/wiki/User:Seaphoto" title="User:Seaphoto"><font color="3333cc"><b>Sea</b></font><font color="330099"><b>photo</b></font></a><sup><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Seaphoto" title="User talk:Seaphoto"><font color="3333cc">Talk</font></a></sup> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Whale_Wars#c-Seaphoto-2009-11-05T02:44:00.000Z-CharmsDad-2009-10-12T07:08:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:44, 5 November 2009 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Seaphoto-2009-11-05T02:44:00.000Z-CharmsDad-2009-10-12T07:08:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Seaphoto-2009-11-05T02:44:00.000Z-CharmsDad-2009-10-12T07:08:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Minor_updates_to_the_"Shooting_Controversy"" data-mw-thread-id="h-Minor_updates_to_the_"Shooting_Controversy"-2009-06-05T05:36:00.000Z"><span id="Minor_updates_to_the_.22Shooting_Controversy.22"></span><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Minor_updates_to_the_"Shooting_Controversy"-2009-06-05T05:36:00.000Z"></span>Minor updates to the "Shooting Controversy"<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Minor_updates_to_the_"Shooting_Controversy"-2009-06-05T05:36:00.000Z"></span></h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Cptnono-2009-06-05T05:36:00.000Z-Minor_updates_to_the_"Shooting_Controversy""></span>Hi. New on Wiki: I noted some minor and I'm certain unintentional discrepancies in the Shooting Controversy section relative to the reported articles, so I did some clean-up. No trouble; glad to help. Cheers, GeoffP1974 ~~ </p> <dl><dd><dl><dd>Certain lines in the section are not supported by the sources. One of the sources is not inline with wikipedia's reliability guidelines (might also be copyright but not sure of those rules). Look to be the viewers interpretation of the event which is a concern when it is contentious. Removing a few lines which are not currently supported. <dl><dd>Follow-up (regarding retraction not if it was a bullet): The Australian Foreign Minister offered 2 media releases on March 7 2008. One states "Japan has advised the Australian Embassy in Tokyo that a crew member on board the Japanese whaling vessel fired warning shots." while the later says: "Japanese officials have now advised the Australian Embassy in Tokyo that during the incident in the Southern Ocean this afternoon, three 'warning balls' – also known as 'flashbangs' – had been fired." Reuters and BBC reported off different ones but reliable source does not support a recant. It might have been simply a poor translation but until a reliable source says either way, let the facts speak for themselves. Three articles mention that it was a retraction and all need to be cleaned up. Any thoughts on how to clean this up to not lead the reader in either direction? Linking other discussion pages here. Sources: <b>Press release 1)</b> <a rel="nofollow" class="external free" href="http://www.foreignminister.gov.au/releases/2008/fa-s048_08.html">http://www.foreignminister.gov.au/releases/2008/fa-s048_08.html</a> <b>Press release 2)</b> <a rel="nofollow" class="external free" href="http://www.foreignminister.gov.au/releases/2008/fa-s049_08.html">http://www.foreignminister.gov.au/releases/2008/fa-s049_08.html</a> <b>Reuters</b> <a rel="nofollow" class="external free" href="http://www.reuters.com/article/latestCrisis/idUSSYD154936">http://www.reuters.com/article/latestCrisis/idUSSYD154936</a> <b>BBC</b> <a rel="nofollow" class="external free" href="http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/7282760.stm">http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/7282760.stm</a> <a href="/wiki/User:Cptnono" title="User:Cptnono">Cptnono</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Cptnono" title="User talk:Cptnono">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Whale_Wars#c-Cptnono-2009-06-05T05:36:00.000Z-Minor_updates_to_the_"Shooting_Controversy"" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">05:36, 5 June 2009 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Cptnono-2009-06-05T05:36:00.000Z-Minor_updates_to_the_"Shooting_Controversy""><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Cptnono-2009-06-05T05:36:00.000Z-Minor_updates_to_the_"Shooting_Controversy""></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id=""Shooting_Controversy"" data-mw-thread-id="h-"Shooting_Controversy"-2009-06-06T00:51:00.000Z"><span id=".22Shooting_Controversy.22"></span><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-"Shooting_Controversy"-2009-06-06T00:51:00.000Z"></span>"Shooting Controversy"<span data-mw-comment-end="h-"Shooting_Controversy"-2009-06-06T00:51:00.000Z"></span></h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-SpudHawg948-2009-06-06T00:51:00.000Z-"Shooting_Controversy""></span>Notice how there is absolutely NO bruising under the vest. If it was a bullet, there would have been bruising. Also, the piece of metal removed was a thin, curved, hollow piece of metal. The Japanese statement that a real shot would have staggered Watson and left bruising was 100% accurate. As a member of the USAF's Security Police, I know a gunshot stopped by a vest when I see one. Open your eyes people! Don't blindly follow what these people tell you. <a href="/wiki/User:SpudHawg948" title="User:SpudHawg948">SpudHawg948</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:SpudHawg948" title="User talk:SpudHawg948">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Whale_Wars#c-SpudHawg948-2009-06-06T00:51:00.000Z-"Shooting_Controversy"" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:51, 6 June 2009 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-SpudHawg948-2009-06-06T00:51:00.000Z-"Shooting_Controversy""><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-SpudHawg948-2009-06-06T00:51:00.000Z-"Shooting_Controversy""></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Cptnono-2009-06-06T01:28:00.000Z-SpudHawg948-2009-06-06T00:51:00.000Z"></span>Your perception does not matter at all for the article. I agree with you but until a source says one way or the other it cannot go in.<a href="/wiki/User:Cptnono" title="User:Cptnono">Cptnono</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Cptnono" title="User talk:Cptnono">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Whale_Wars#c-Cptnono-2009-06-06T01:28:00.000Z-SpudHawg948-2009-06-06T00:51:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:28, 6 June 2009 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Cptnono-2009-06-06T01:28:00.000Z-SpudHawg948-2009-06-06T00:51:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Cptnono-2009-06-06T01:28:00.000Z-SpudHawg948-2009-06-06T00:51:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-NRen2k5-2009-06-11T02:57:00.000Z-Cptnono-2009-06-06T01:28:00.000Z"></span>I agree with Cptnono. And on the other hand, no proof has been provided that Watson was shot, so I’ve been checking WP articles that mention the controversy, to make sure it’s made clear that these are only allegations from Watson and his crew at this point. — <em><a href="/wiki/User:NRen2k5" class="mw-redirect" title="User:NRen2k5">NRen2k5</a></em><sup>(<a href="/wiki/User_talk:NRen2k5" class="mw-redirect" title="User talk:NRen2k5">TALK</a>)</sup>, <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Whale_Wars#c-NRen2k5-2009-06-11T02:57:00.000Z-Cptnono-2009-06-06T01:28:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:57, 11 June 2009 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-NRen2k5-2009-06-11T02:57:00.000Z-Cptnono-2009-06-06T01:28:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-NRen2k5-2009-06-11T02:57:00.000Z-Cptnono-2009-06-06T01:28:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Cptnono-2009-07-07T06:28:00.000Z-NRen2k5-2009-06-11T02:57:00.000Z"></span>The worst part is all of the articles related to the group. As NRen2k5 knows, the amount of work needed to get them all up to par is surprising.<a href="/wiki/User:Cptnono" title="User:Cptnono">Cptnono</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Cptnono" title="User talk:Cptnono">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Whale_Wars#c-Cptnono-2009-07-07T06:28:00.000Z-NRen2k5-2009-06-11T02:57:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">06:28, 7 July 2009 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Cptnono-2009-07-07T06:28:00.000Z-NRen2k5-2009-06-11T02:57:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Cptnono-2009-07-07T06:28:00.000Z-NRen2k5-2009-06-11T02:57:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-75.176.0.72-2009-08-01T09:23:00.000Z-"Shooting_Controversy""></span>If you scroll down to the "see also" section and click on "Nisshin Marru." after going to that page, they also talk about the shooting incident and say that they did testing that showed the bullet was shot well before the incident into the vest and that the case was dropped due to the crew not wanting to cooperate anymore. <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">—Preceding <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Signatures" title="Wikipedia:Signatures">unsigned</a> comment added by <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/75.176.0.72" title="Special:Contributions/75.176.0.72">75.176.0.72</a> (<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:75.176.0.72&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User talk:75.176.0.72 (page does not exist)">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Whale_Wars#c-75.176.0.72-2009-08-01T09:23:00.000Z-"Shooting_Controversy"" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">09:23, 1 August 2009 (UTC)</a></span><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-75.176.0.72-2009-08-01T09:23:00.000Z-"Shooting_Controversy""><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-75.176.0.72-2009-08-01T09:23:00.000Z-"Shooting_Controversy""></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-NRen2k5-2009-08-02T01:30:00.000Z-75.176.0.72-2009-08-01T09:23:00.000Z"></span>That was unsourced information added by a first-time editor. <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/68.104.206.212" title="Special:Contributions/68.104.206.212">Special:Contributions/68.104.206.212</a> — <em><a href="/wiki/User:NRen2k5" class="mw-redirect" title="User:NRen2k5">NRen2k5</a></em><sup>(<a href="/wiki/User_talk:NRen2k5" class="mw-redirect" title="User talk:NRen2k5">TALK</a>)</sup>, <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Whale_Wars#c-NRen2k5-2009-08-02T01:30:00.000Z-75.176.0.72-2009-08-01T09:23:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:30, 2 August 2009 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-NRen2k5-2009-08-02T01:30:00.000Z-75.176.0.72-2009-08-01T09:23:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-NRen2k5-2009-08-02T01:30:00.000Z-75.176.0.72-2009-08-01T09:23:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Infobox_image" data-mw-thread-id="h-Infobox_image-2009-06-11T02:51:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Infobox_image-2009-06-11T02:51:00.000Z"></span>Infobox image<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Infobox_image-2009-06-11T02:51:00.000Z"></span></h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-NRen2k5-2009-06-11T02:51:00.000Z-Infobox_image"></span>I’m thinking the show’s title card is more appropriate to use in the infobox than the DVD sleeve is. Anybody else care to weigh in? — <em><a href="/wiki/User:NRen2k5" class="mw-redirect" title="User:NRen2k5">NRen2k5</a></em><sup>(<a href="/wiki/User_talk:NRen2k5" class="mw-redirect" title="User talk:NRen2k5">TALK</a>)</sup>, <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Whale_Wars#c-NRen2k5-2009-06-11T02:51:00.000Z-Infobox_image" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:51, 11 June 2009 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-NRen2k5-2009-06-11T02:51:00.000Z-Infobox_image"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-NRen2k5-2009-06-11T02:51:00.000Z-Infobox_image"></span> </p><p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-63.68.134.132-2009-06-11T16:11:00.000Z-Infobox_image"></span>I am down about ten pounds since my last weigh-in, but I have more to lose. <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">—Preceding <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Signatures" title="Wikipedia:Signatures">unsigned</a> comment added by <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/63.68.134.132" title="Special:Contributions/63.68.134.132">63.68.134.132</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:63.68.134.132" title="User talk:63.68.134.132">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Whale_Wars#c-63.68.134.132-2009-06-11T16:11:00.000Z-Infobox_image" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:11, 11 June 2009 (UTC)</a></span><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-63.68.134.132-2009-06-11T16:11:00.000Z-Infobox_image"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-63.68.134.132-2009-06-11T16:11:00.000Z-Infobox_image"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Jedibob5-2009-06-13T01:04:00.000Z-63.68.134.132-2009-06-11T16:11:00.000Z"></span>Yeah, really helpful... But yeah, the title card is more appropriate to identify the show than the DVD case. <a href="/wiki/User:Jedibob5" title="User:Jedibob5">Jedibob5</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Jedibob5" title="User talk:Jedibob5">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Whale_Wars#c-Jedibob5-2009-06-13T01:04:00.000Z-63.68.134.132-2009-06-11T16:11:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:04, 13 June 2009 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Jedibob5-2009-06-13T01:04:00.000Z-63.68.134.132-2009-06-11T16:11:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Jedibob5-2009-06-13T01:04:00.000Z-63.68.134.132-2009-06-11T16:11:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Piracy?" data-mw-thread-id="h-Piracy?-2009-06-13T01:04:00.000Z"><span id="Piracy.3F"></span><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Piracy?-2009-06-13T01:04:00.000Z"></span>Piracy?<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Piracy?-2009-06-13T01:04:00.000Z"></span></h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Jedibob5-2009-06-13T01:04:00.000Z-Piracy?"></span>Can anyone explain to me how the attacking and "stink bombing" ships of another nation doesn't qualify as piracy? How do they get away with this stuff? <a href="/wiki/User:Jedibob5" title="User:Jedibob5">Jedibob5</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Jedibob5" title="User talk:Jedibob5">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Whale_Wars#c-Jedibob5-2009-06-13T01:04:00.000Z-Piracy?" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:04, 13 June 2009 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Jedibob5-2009-06-13T01:04:00.000Z-Piracy?"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Jedibob5-2009-06-13T01:04:00.000Z-Piracy?"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-NRen2k5-2009-06-13T01:26:00.000Z-Jedibob5-2009-06-13T01:04:00.000Z"></span>Depends on your definition of piracy, I guess. Interestingly enough, SSCS matches Wikipedia’s definition of piracy pretty well. But I digress. Talk pages are made to discuss improving the article, not to discuss the subject matter itself. Discovery Communications has a set of forums discussing the show <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="http://community.discovery.com/eve/forums/a/cfrm/f/1991967099">here</a>. — <em><a href="/wiki/User:NRen2k5" class="mw-redirect" title="User:NRen2k5">NRen2k5</a></em><sup>(<a href="/wiki/User_talk:NRen2k5" class="mw-redirect" title="User talk:NRen2k5">TALK</a>)</sup>, <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Whale_Wars#c-NRen2k5-2009-06-13T01:26:00.000Z-Jedibob5-2009-06-13T01:04:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:26, 13 June 2009 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-NRen2k5-2009-06-13T01:26:00.000Z-Jedibob5-2009-06-13T01:04:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-NRen2k5-2009-06-13T01:26:00.000Z-Jedibob5-2009-06-13T01:04:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-98.193.191.134-2009-07-27T04:40:00.000Z-NRen2k5-2009-06-13T01:26:00.000Z"></span>But is does matter in the language and presentation of this material. If SSCS matches Wikipedia's definition of piracy, then in order to maintain a NPOV and not show a preferences for a group with which one may agree, then this article should use Wikipedia's standardized language, no? <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">—Preceding <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Signatures" title="Wikipedia:Signatures">unsigned</a> comment added by <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/98.193.191.134" title="Special:Contributions/98.193.191.134">98.193.191.134</a> (<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:98.193.191.134&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User talk:98.193.191.134 (page does not exist)">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Whale_Wars#c-98.193.191.134-2009-07-27T04:40:00.000Z-NRen2k5-2009-06-13T01:26:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">04:40, 27 July 2009 (UTC)</a><span data-mw-comment-end="c-98.193.191.134-2009-07-27T04:40:00.000Z-NRen2k5-2009-06-13T01:26:00.000Z"></span></span><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-98.193.191.134-2009-07-27T04:40:00.000Z-NRen2k5-2009-06-13T01:26:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span></dd></dl></dd></dl> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-78.23.115.29-2009-07-25T12:18:00.000Z-Piracy?"></span>1. Piracy would be boarding a ship (which they indeed did at one moment), not just harrassing them. 2. Under international law, it is allowed for private organisations to enforce the law if no government is doing so. Therefore, they are simply, legally, enforcing the law prohibiting whaling in the sanctuary. But indeed, this should be about the article, not its topic. <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">—Preceding <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Signatures" title="Wikipedia:Signatures">unsigned</a> comment added by <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/78.23.115.29" title="Special:Contributions/78.23.115.29">78.23.115.29</a> (<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:78.23.115.29&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User talk:78.23.115.29 (page does not exist)">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Whale_Wars#c-78.23.115.29-2009-07-25T12:18:00.000Z-Piracy?" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">12:18, 25 July 2009 (UTC)</a></span><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-78.23.115.29-2009-07-25T12:18:00.000Z-Piracy?"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-78.23.115.29-2009-07-25T12:18:00.000Z-Piracy?"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Cptnono-2009-07-27T05:25:00.000Z-78.23.115.29-2009-07-25T12:18:00.000Z"></span>The unbinding moratorium and unrecognized treaty claims really screw up most "enforcement" arguments but if unbiased reliable sources state that SSCS claims it while discussing the show that this article is about then it should be OK for inclusion. Same goes for "piracy" only it is inflammatory so it should be treated with the extra caution dictated by <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:EXTREMIST" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:EXTREMIST">WP:EXTREMIST</a>. If Jedibob5 wants to, "piracy" claims are not yet included at <a href="/wiki/Sea_Shepherd_Conservation_Society" title="Sea Shepherd Conservation Society">Sea Shepherd Conservation Society</a>. Eco-terrorism, vigilante, and others are mentioned, though. This might be a good opportunity to bring in some more info on the laws involved with the organization's operations.<a href="/wiki/User:Cptnono" title="User:Cptnono">Cptnono</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Cptnono" title="User talk:Cptnono">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Whale_Wars#c-Cptnono-2009-07-27T05:25:00.000Z-78.23.115.29-2009-07-25T12:18:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">05:25, 27 July 2009 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Cptnono-2009-07-27T05:25:00.000Z-78.23.115.29-2009-07-25T12:18:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Cptnono-2009-07-27T05:25:00.000Z-78.23.115.29-2009-07-25T12:18:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-CharmsDad-2009-10-12T07:24:00.000Z-Cptnono-2009-07-27T05:25:00.000Z"></span>Under the IWC standards Japan's whaling quota is listed under research rather than commercial. Per the IWC restrictions, research whaling is NOT prohibited in the Antartic sanctuary areas. Only whaling which is defined by the IWC as "commercial" is restricted in sanctuary areas. Therefore, any claim that the Japanese are violating whaling restrictions or treaties is a blatent lie. If Animal Planet was presenting an unbiased show this would be clearly noted. It is the SSCS which is committing criminal acts. Also, contrary to other claims made on this show, a country absolutely CAN send military ships into that area if commercial ships are threatened. That's why the SSCS will not try their stunts against ships flagged to any country which maintains a solid navy (such as Russia.)<a href="/w/index.php?title=User:CharmsDad&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:CharmsDad (page does not exist)">CharmsDad</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:CharmsDad" title="User talk:CharmsDad">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Whale_Wars#c-CharmsDad-2009-10-12T07:24:00.000Z-Cptnono-2009-07-27T05:25:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">07:24, 12 October 2009 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-CharmsDad-2009-10-12T07:24:00.000Z-Cptnono-2009-07-27T05:25:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-CharmsDad-2009-10-12T07:24:00.000Z-Cptnono-2009-07-27T05:25:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Cptnono-2009-10-12T07:32:00.000Z-CharmsDad-2009-10-12T07:24:00.000Z"></span>They actually have had 2 operations against Russia. Regardless, this is not a forum for discussing SSCS or the legalities of whaling. It is a forum for discussing how to improve the Whale Wars article on Wikipeida.<a href="/wiki/User:Cptnono" title="User:Cptnono">Cptnono</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Cptnono" title="User talk:Cptnono">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Whale_Wars#c-Cptnono-2009-10-12T07:32:00.000Z-CharmsDad-2009-10-12T07:24:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">07:32, 12 October 2009 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Cptnono-2009-10-12T07:32:00.000Z-CharmsDad-2009-10-12T07:24:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Cptnono-2009-10-12T07:32:00.000Z-CharmsDad-2009-10-12T07:24:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-CharmsDad-2009-10-12T20:23:00.000Z-Cptnono-2009-10-12T07:32:00.000Z"></span>Yet it is apparently OK to include the claim of issue of legality when it is used in support of this group's activities (as in the first post in this block.) The point is the blatently biased presentation in this show.<a href="/w/index.php?title=User:CharmsDad&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:CharmsDad (page does not exist)">CharmsDad</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:CharmsDad" title="User talk:CharmsDad">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Whale_Wars#c-CharmsDad-2009-10-12T20:23:00.000Z-Cptnono-2009-10-12T07:32:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:23, 12 October 2009 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-CharmsDad-2009-10-12T20:23:00.000Z-Cptnono-2009-10-12T07:32:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-CharmsDad-2009-10-12T20:23:00.000Z-Cptnono-2009-10-12T07:32:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Cptnono-2009-10-13T00:10:00.000Z-CharmsDad-2009-10-12T20:23:00.000Z"></span>What are you talking about? <s>Do you even know what you are talking about?</s> (striking out my comment which was aggreesive itslf) Have you seen how much pro Sea Shepherd stuff got ripped out of the main article? Find some sources and work up a something for inclusion and stop using the talk page to complain about how poopey they are.<a href="/wiki/User:Cptnono" title="User:Cptnono">Cptnono</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Cptnono" title="User talk:Cptnono">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Whale_Wars#c-Cptnono-2009-10-13T00:10:00.000Z-CharmsDad-2009-10-12T20:23:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:10, 13 October 2009 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Cptnono-2009-10-13T00:10:00.000Z-CharmsDad-2009-10-12T20:23:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Cptnono-2009-10-13T00:10:00.000Z-CharmsDad-2009-10-12T20:23:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Cptnono-2009-10-13T04:17:00.000Z-Piracy?"></span>(Edit conflict. Personal attack removed by another editor) </p><p>You just broke civility guidelines and it was not appropriate. I'm going to lay this out as clearly as I can: </p> <ol><li>"The Sea Shepherd Conservation Society disputes the Japanese claim that the whaling done in the Southern Ocean Whale Sanctuary is legally accepted research and is instead banned commercially based whaling" does not assert the validity of either side.</li> <li>"In 2008, Paul Watson persuaded the Discovery Channel to make a reality show documentary about the Sea Shepherd Conservation Society's campaign against Japanese whalers off the coast of Antarctica." asserts that Watson and the channel worked together to get the show produced</li> <li><a href="/wiki/Sea_Shepherd_Conservation_Society#Organization#Controversial_direct-action_tactics" title="Sea Shepherd Conservation Society">Sea Shepherd Conservation Society#Organization#Controversial direct-action tactics</a> is the appropriate place on Wikipedia to include information on any claims of piracy or eco-terrorism.</li> <li><a href="/wiki/Sea_Shepherd_Conservation_Society#Operations#Whaling#Soviet" title="Sea Shepherd Conservation Society">Sea Shepherd Conservation Society#Operations#Whaling#Soviet</a> Is the correct place for information about Russian operations.</li> <li>The article has been changed recently so please make sure you are reviewing the current article's content and not that of several months ago.</li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Reliable_sources" title="Wikipedia:Reliable sources">Wikipedia:Reliable sources</a> is the guideline for presenting information with sources. Sources are needed.</li></ol> <p>Do you have any questions on the above or constructive ideas on how to further improve the article? <a href="/wiki/User:Cptnono" title="User:Cptnono">Cptnono</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Cptnono" title="User talk:Cptnono">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Whale_Wars#c-Cptnono-2009-10-13T04:17:00.000Z-Piracy?" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">04:17, 13 October 2009 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Cptnono-2009-10-13T04:17:00.000Z-Piracy?"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Cptnono-2009-10-13T04:17:00.000Z-Piracy?"></span> </p> <dl><dd><dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-CharmsDad-2009-10-13T05:36:00.000Z-Cptnono-2009-10-13T04:17:00.000Z"></span>And I will lay it out clearly: Apparently you are entitled to make personal attacks but I am not entitled to defend myself. You have violated the rules of civility yet are pointing your finger elsewhere. I've pointed out elsewhere: it is the IWC which defines the Japanese whaling activites as research (PER THE IWC WEB SITE: www.iwcoffice.org). Your statements are completely off subject to what I have stated. Do you have questions on this? I have made constructive suggestions, including: <dl><dd>1. Suggesting an indication on the disclaimer that Animal Planet is a producer of this program (which you now apparently admit.)</dd> <dd>2. Noting that the IWC accepts and approves the Japanese whaling program as research. The Japanese are operating within the bounds of the International Whaling Treaty (as administered by the IWC.)</dd></dl></dd> <dd>Your original comment and your last post come across as snide and condescending. You made a blatent personal attack, yet somehow it is acceptable. Apparently the rules only apply to those who aren't on the "approved side" of a discussion. Or is it just that I'm not a member of the "in crowd" for this site?<a href="/w/index.php?title=User:CharmsDad&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:CharmsDad (page does not exist)">CharmsDad</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:CharmsDad" title="User talk:CharmsDad">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Whale_Wars#c-CharmsDad-2009-10-13T05:36:00.000Z-Cptnono-2009-10-13T04:17:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">05:36, 13 October 2009 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-CharmsDad-2009-10-13T05:36:00.000Z-Cptnono-2009-10-13T04:17:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-CharmsDad-2009-10-13T05:36:00.000Z-Cptnono-2009-10-13T04:17:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Cptnono-2009-10-13T06:14:00.000Z-CharmsDad-2009-10-13T05:36:00.000Z"></span>It was snide and nothing more. If you had a problem with it you should have said so instead of making a personal attack. I also struck mine out to be a little less aggressive. We can discuss it on a civility noticeboard if you wish.</dd> <dd>1. I now admit? I never disputed it. In fact, I added the information from sources that say it was developed by an independent entity but also added a source saying their was some sort of partnership. If you don't like the disclaimer: <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:SOFIXIT" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:SOFIXIT">WP:SOFIXIT</a>. If it gets reverted by someone we can discuss it further.</dd> <dd>2. This article is not about the legality of the whale hunt and makes no assertions. Side 1 claims x and Side 2 claims y. There are several legal issues that could be discussed (unrecognized Antarctic treaty jurisdiction, an essentially nonbinding moratorium, etc) but those should be discussed at <a href="/wiki/Whaling_in_Japan" title="Whaling in Japan">Whaling in Japan</a>, <a href="/wiki/Whaling" title="Whaling">Whaling</a>, <a href="/wiki/International_Whaling_Commission" title="International Whaling Commission">International Whaling Commission</a>, or other places.</dd> <dd>You are clearly under the impression that I disagree with you on the legalities and positions of SSCS. If you took a step back and realized that you don't need to <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:SOAPBOX" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:SOAPBOX">WP:SOAPBOX</a> this will go a little smoother.<a href="/wiki/User:Cptnono" title="User:Cptnono">Cptnono</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Cptnono" title="User talk:Cptnono">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Whale_Wars#c-Cptnono-2009-10-13T06:14:00.000Z-CharmsDad-2009-10-13T05:36:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">06:14, 13 October 2009 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Cptnono-2009-10-13T06:14:00.000Z-CharmsDad-2009-10-13T05:36:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Cptnono-2009-10-13T06:14:00.000Z-CharmsDad-2009-10-13T05:36:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="intro_change" data-mw-thread-id="h-intro_change-2009-06-13T06:42:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-intro_change-2009-06-13T06:42:00.000Z"></span>intro change<span data-mw-comment-end="h-intro_change-2009-06-13T06:42:00.000Z"></span></h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Fhue-2009-06-13T06:42:00.000Z-intro_change"></span>The introduction's final words "in the name of research" give undue credence to the Japanese whaling industry; a casual reader might take away little understanding of the true conflict. The SSCS's mission is to stop the whaling, not just "deter," and thereby enforce international regulation protecting whales; the Japanese claim they are killing the whales for research but, as the show's voiceover counterclaims, this is their cover story to get around the regulations. <a href="/wiki/User:Fhue" class="mw-redirect" title="User:Fhue">Fhue</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Fhue" class="mw-redirect" title="User talk:Fhue">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Whale_Wars#c-Fhue-2009-06-13T06:42:00.000Z-intro_change" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">06:42, 13 June 2009 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Fhue-2009-06-13T06:42:00.000Z-intro_change"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Fhue-2009-06-13T06:42:00.000Z-intro_change"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Cptnono-2009-06-13T08:01:00.000Z-Fhue-2009-06-13T06:42:00.000Z"></span>They are doing it in the name of research. Bias would be to call it either "under the guise of research" or "for research"<a href="/wiki/User:Cptnono" title="User:Cptnono">Cptnono</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Cptnono" title="User talk:Cptnono">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Whale_Wars#c-Cptnono-2009-06-13T08:01:00.000Z-Fhue-2009-06-13T06:42:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">08:01, 13 June 2009 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Cptnono-2009-06-13T08:01:00.000Z-Fhue-2009-06-13T06:42:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Cptnono-2009-06-13T08:01:00.000Z-Fhue-2009-06-13T06:42:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Fhue-2009-06-14T08:02:00.000Z-Cptnono-2009-06-13T08:01:00.000Z"></span>Not really. They only claim "research" to use a loophole in the regulation. The show includes footage of the meat being packaged for sale, which has been verified by other anti-whaling groups, including Greenpeace (<a rel="nofollow" class="external free" href="http://www.greenpeace.org/usa/news/activists-charged-for-exposing">http://www.greenpeace.org/usa/news/activists-charged-for-exposing</a>). Furthermore, according to sources on the Japanese whaling page @<a class="external free" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_whaling#Scientific_research">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_whaling#Scientific_research</a>, "Japan began scientific research hunts to provide a basis for the resumption of sustainable whaling." And even this last point on sustainability is questionable, given that the source cited in that wikipedia page looks suspiciously like a marketing piece from the Japanese whaling industry & its research front, www.icrwhale.org -- the wikipedia source is a vanilla PDF from their website. <a href="/wiki/User:Fhue" class="mw-redirect" title="User:Fhue">Fhue</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Fhue" class="mw-redirect" title="User talk:Fhue">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Whale_Wars#c-Fhue-2009-06-14T08:02:00.000Z-Cptnono-2009-06-13T08:01:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">08:02, 14 June 2009 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Fhue-2009-06-14T08:02:00.000Z-Cptnono-2009-06-13T08:01:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Fhue-2009-06-14T08:02:00.000Z-Cptnono-2009-06-13T08:01:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-NRen2k5-2009-06-14T11:37:00.000Z-Fhue-2009-06-14T08:02:00.000Z"></span>Your evidence doesn’t say what you want it to. Please try to maintain at least a modicum of objectivity. — <em><a href="/wiki/User:NRen2k5" class="mw-redirect" title="User:NRen2k5">NRen2k5</a></em><sup>(<a href="/wiki/User_talk:NRen2k5" class="mw-redirect" title="User talk:NRen2k5">TALK</a>)</sup>, <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Whale_Wars#c-NRen2k5-2009-06-14T11:37:00.000Z-Fhue-2009-06-14T08:02:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">11:37, 14 June 2009 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-NRen2k5-2009-06-14T11:37:00.000Z-Fhue-2009-06-14T08:02:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-NRen2k5-2009-06-14T11:37:00.000Z-Fhue-2009-06-14T08:02:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Fhue-2009-06-14T20:16:00.000Z-NRen2k5-2009-06-14T11:37:00.000Z"></span>Since I'm a new contributor to wikipedia, i'll take your dismissive tone with a grain of salt. So here's a quote from The Times <a rel="nofollow" class="external free" href="http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/asia/article3325580.ece">http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/asia/article3325580.ece</a>, referenced on the <a href="/wiki/Whaling_in_Japan" title="Whaling in Japan">Whaling in Japan</a> page: <dl><dd>"Australia and other critics dismiss the Japanese programme as a disguise for commercial whaling, which is banned, and claim that whale meat ends up in supermarkets and restaurants."</dd></dl></dd> <dd>The direct evidence on film (in Whale Wars) points to questionable research, and thats what I'm saying. Not the other way around. <a href="/wiki/User:Fhue" class="mw-redirect" title="User:Fhue">Fhue</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Fhue" class="mw-redirect" title="User talk:Fhue">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Whale_Wars#c-Fhue-2009-06-14T20:16:00.000Z-NRen2k5-2009-06-14T11:37:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:16, 14 June 2009 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Fhue-2009-06-14T20:16:00.000Z-NRen2k5-2009-06-14T11:37:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Fhue-2009-06-14T20:16:00.000Z-NRen2k5-2009-06-14T11:37:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-NRen2k5-2009-06-15T01:22:00.000Z-Fhue-2009-06-14T20:16:00.000Z"></span>You’re imagining the Japanese’s way of thinking based on your personal interpretation of a small amount of evidence. You’re trying to present your personal conclusion and back it up with that evidence rather than just presenting the evidence. That’s <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:NPOV" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:NPOV">POV</a> and <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:NOR" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:NOR">original research</a>. — <em><a href="/wiki/User:NRen2k5" class="mw-redirect" title="User:NRen2k5">NRen2k5</a></em><sup>(<a href="/wiki/User_talk:NRen2k5" class="mw-redirect" title="User talk:NRen2k5">TALK</a>)</sup>, <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Whale_Wars#c-NRen2k5-2009-06-15T01:22:00.000Z-Fhue-2009-06-14T20:16:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:22, 15 June 2009 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-NRen2k5-2009-06-15T01:22:00.000Z-Fhue-2009-06-14T20:16:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-NRen2k5-2009-06-15T01:22:00.000Z-Fhue-2009-06-14T20:16:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Cptnono-2009-06-15T04:52:00.000Z-NRen2k5-2009-06-15T01:22:00.000Z"></span>They actually do not dipute the fact that they package it for food. But this isn't the appropriate place to debate the ethics of it or try to change anyones mind. They make the claim and we are letting the facts speak for themselves.<a href="/wiki/User:Cptnono" title="User:Cptnono">Cptnono</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Cptnono" title="User talk:Cptnono">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Whale_Wars#c-Cptnono-2009-06-15T04:52:00.000Z-NRen2k5-2009-06-15T01:22:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">04:52, 15 June 2009 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Cptnono-2009-06-15T04:52:00.000Z-NRen2k5-2009-06-15T01:22:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Cptnono-2009-06-15T04:52:00.000Z-NRen2k5-2009-06-15T01:22:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-NRen2k5-2009-06-15T05:28:00.000Z-Cptnono-2009-06-15T04:52:00.000Z"></span>Oh, I know. I’m comfortable with the way Fhue presented it in <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Whale_Wars&diff=296472536&oldid=296455063">the edit he made about an hour and a half after my comment</a>. — <em><a href="/wiki/User:NRen2k5" class="mw-redirect" title="User:NRen2k5">NRen2k5</a></em><sup>(<a href="/wiki/User_talk:NRen2k5" class="mw-redirect" title="User talk:NRen2k5">TALK</a>)</sup>, <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Whale_Wars#c-NRen2k5-2009-06-15T05:28:00.000Z-Cptnono-2009-06-15T04:52:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">05:28, 15 June 2009 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-NRen2k5-2009-06-15T05:28:00.000Z-Cptnono-2009-06-15T04:52:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-NRen2k5-2009-06-15T05:28:00.000Z-Cptnono-2009-06-15T04:52:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Fhue-2009-06-15T05:21:00.000Z-Fhue-2009-06-14T20:16:00.000Z"></span>Perhaps I was not clear enough in summarizing the issue: I'm not arguing about whether Japanese whaling "in the name of research" is legitimate, but rather that the introduction should reflect this debate. Nowhere in the main article is there mention of this conflict. Yet it is an important part of the show & should be included. And no, the conclusions are not mine. <a href="/wiki/User:Fhue" class="mw-redirect" title="User:Fhue">Fhue</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Fhue" class="mw-redirect" title="User talk:Fhue">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Whale_Wars#c-Fhue-2009-06-15T05:21:00.000Z-Fhue-2009-06-14T20:16:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">05:21, 15 June 2009 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Fhue-2009-06-15T05:21:00.000Z-Fhue-2009-06-14T20:16:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Fhue-2009-06-15T05:21:00.000Z-Fhue-2009-06-14T20:16:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Cptnono-2009-06-16T06:08:00.000Z-Fhue-2009-06-15T05:21:00.000Z"></span>adding the extra line was fine. as long as there is balance it should be good. I think "claim"(<a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Words_to_avoid#claim" title="Wikipedia talk:Words to avoid">Wikipedia talk:Words to avoid#claim</a>) needs to be removed. should be easy enough to fiddle with.<a href="/wiki/User:Cptnono" title="User:Cptnono">Cptnono</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Cptnono" title="User talk:Cptnono">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Whale_Wars#c-Cptnono-2009-06-16T06:08:00.000Z-Fhue-2009-06-15T05:21:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">06:08, 16 June 2009 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Cptnono-2009-06-16T06:08:00.000Z-Fhue-2009-06-15T05:21:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Cptnono-2009-06-16T06:08:00.000Z-Fhue-2009-06-15T05:21:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-CharmsDad-2009-10-12T20:51:00.000Z-Cptnono-2009-06-13T08:01:00.000Z"></span>To be accurate: it is the International Whaling Commission (IWC) which recognizes the hunting of whales by the Japanese as research. The IWC's scientific committee reviews each country's proposal, including the goals and methods, and determines if it meets their standards before issuing the permits. And there ARE commercial whaling operations by Norway and (since 2005) Iceland which are "under objection" by the IWC. Also, to be clear, whaling is restricted by international treaty agreements and so is technically not "illegal under any international law." IWC regulations also encourage the whales taken to be "fully used", which includes use of the meat for food.<a href="/w/index.php?title=User:CharmsDad&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:CharmsDad (page does not exist)">CharmsDad</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:CharmsDad" title="User talk:CharmsDad">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Whale_Wars#c-CharmsDad-2009-10-12T20:51:00.000Z-Cptnono-2009-06-13T08:01:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:51, 12 October 2009 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-CharmsDad-2009-10-12T20:51:00.000Z-Cptnono-2009-06-13T08:01:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-CharmsDad-2009-10-12T20:51:00.000Z-Cptnono-2009-06-13T08:01:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl> <p><i><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Cptnono-2009-06-16T06:16:00.000Z-intro_change"></span>The program follows Paul Watson, founder of the Sea Shepherd Conservation Society, as he and his crew aboard the MV Steve Irwin attempt to deter Japanese ships that hunt minke and fin whales in the Southern Ocean Whale Sanctuary in the name of scientific research.[1] Environmental groups dispute the Japanese claim of research "as a disguise for commercial whaling, which is banned."</i> or </p> <ul><li><i>The program follows Paul Watson, founder of the Sea Shepherd Conservation Society, as he and his crew aboard the MV Steve Irwin attempt to deter Japanese ships that hunt minke and fin whales in the Southern Ocean Whale Sanctuary in the name of scientific research.[1] Environmental groups claim the research is a disguise for commercial whaling, which is banned.</i> (trying to make a point. bad!)</li></ul> <ul><li><i>The program follows Paul Watson, founder of the Sea Shepherd Conservation Society, as he and his crew aboard the MV Steve Irwin attempt to deter Japanese ships that hunt minke and fin whales in the Southern Ocean Whale Sanctuary. The Japanese do this in the name of research/say it is research something like that while environmental groups argue it is a "disguise for commercial whaling"</i></li></ul> <ul><li><i>The program follows Paul Watson, founder of the Sea Shepherd Conservation Society, as he and his crew aboard the MV Steve Irwin attempt to deter Japanese ships that hunt minke and fin whales in the Southern Ocean Whale Sanctuary in the name of scientific research.[1] Environmental groups argue that the whaling is "a disguise for commercial whaling, which is banned."</i></li></ul> <p>Sure there are a few options which will eliminate some of the potential concerns with words to avoid. <a href="/wiki/User:Cptnono" title="User:Cptnono">Cptnono</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Cptnono" title="User talk:Cptnono">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Whale_Wars#c-Cptnono-2009-06-16T06:16:00.000Z-intro_change" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">06:16, 16 June 2009 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Cptnono-2009-06-16T06:16:00.000Z-intro_change"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Cptnono-2009-06-16T06:16:00.000Z-intro_change"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Fhue-2009-06-16T19:11:00.000Z-Cptnono-2009-06-16T06:16:00.000Z"></span>How about the last one, with a small but important change: <br/> <i>Environmental groups argue that the research is "a disguise for commercial whaling, which is banned."</i> <br/> <a href="/wiki/User:Fhue" class="mw-redirect" title="User:Fhue">Fhue</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Fhue" class="mw-redirect" title="User talk:Fhue">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Whale_Wars#c-Fhue-2009-06-16T19:11:00.000Z-Cptnono-2009-06-16T06:16:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:11, 16 June 2009 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Fhue-2009-06-16T19:11:00.000Z-Cptnono-2009-06-16T06:16:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Fhue-2009-06-16T19:11:00.000Z-Cptnono-2009-06-16T06:16:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-NRen2k5-2009-07-14T00:32:00.000Z-Fhue-2009-06-16T19:11:00.000Z"></span>It should also be made clear that it’s difficult if not impossible to make that distinction, since IWC rules stipulate that the carcasses from whale research not be wasted. “Dismiss” is strong wording that implies that the critics’ position is more solid than just the opinion that it is. — <em><a href="/wiki/User:NRen2k5" class="mw-redirect" title="User:NRen2k5">NRen2k5</a></em><sup>(<a href="/wiki/User_talk:NRen2k5" class="mw-redirect" title="User talk:NRen2k5">TALK</a>)</sup>, <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Whale_Wars#c-NRen2k5-2009-07-14T00:32:00.000Z-Fhue-2009-06-16T19:11:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:32, 14 July 2009 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-NRen2k5-2009-07-14T00:32:00.000Z-Fhue-2009-06-16T19:11:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-NRen2k5-2009-07-14T00:32:00.000Z-Fhue-2009-06-16T19:11:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Cptnono-2009-07-29T05:45:00.000Z-NRen2k5-2009-07-14T00:32:00.000Z"></span>Please check out the base proposed in the subseciton <a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#Information_on_"battles"">below</a>.<a href="/wiki/User:Cptnono" title="User:Cptnono">Cptnono</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Cptnono" title="User talk:Cptnono">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Whale_Wars#c-Cptnono-2009-07-29T05:45:00.000Z-NRen2k5-2009-07-14T00:32:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">05:45, 29 July 2009 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Cptnono-2009-07-29T05:45:00.000Z-NRen2k5-2009-07-14T00:32:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Cptnono-2009-07-29T05:45:00.000Z-NRen2k5-2009-07-14T00:32:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Vandalism" data-mw-thread-id="h-Vandalism-2009-06-17T18:55:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Vandalism-2009-06-17T18:55:00.000Z"></span>Vandalism<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Vandalism-2009-06-17T18:55:00.000Z"></span></h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Cptnono-2009-06-17T18:55:00.000Z-Vandalism"></span>I've done my share of shit talking on other pages but so far a few of us are doing alright on this one. Lets try not accuse editors who have been actively working on this and related page of vandalism. Assume good faith or other fun guidelines can be pointed to.<a href="/wiki/User:Cptnono" title="User:Cptnono">Cptnono</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Cptnono" title="User talk:Cptnono">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Whale_Wars#c-Cptnono-2009-06-17T18:55:00.000Z-Vandalism" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:55, 17 June 2009 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Cptnono-2009-06-17T18:55:00.000Z-Vandalism"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Cptnono-2009-06-17T18:55:00.000Z-Vandalism"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Fhue-2009-06-17T19:38:00.000Z-Cptnono-2009-06-17T18:55:00.000Z"></span>I believe this to stem from NRen's mistaken affront at [<a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Sea_Shepherd_Conservation_Society&diff=296931246&oldid=296930843%7Cthis">revert of actual vandalism by anon.user</a>] when cross-editing/reverting with this article. <a href="/wiki/User:Fhue" class="mw-redirect" title="User:Fhue">Fhue</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Fhue" class="mw-redirect" title="User talk:Fhue">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Whale_Wars#c-Fhue-2009-06-17T19:38:00.000Z-Cptnono-2009-06-17T18:55:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:38, 17 June 2009 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Fhue-2009-06-17T19:38:00.000Z-Cptnono-2009-06-17T18:55:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Fhue-2009-06-17T19:38:00.000Z-Cptnono-2009-06-17T18:55:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-NRen2k5-2009-06-17T22:38:00.000Z-Fhue-2009-06-17T19:38:00.000Z"></span>You're the one who's confused, and still assuming bad faith, I see. — <em><a href="/wiki/User:NRen2k5" class="mw-redirect" title="User:NRen2k5">NRen2k5</a></em><sup>(<a href="/wiki/User_talk:NRen2k5" class="mw-redirect" title="User talk:NRen2k5">TALK</a>)</sup>, <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Whale_Wars#c-NRen2k5-2009-06-17T22:38:00.000Z-Fhue-2009-06-17T19:38:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:38, 17 June 2009 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-NRen2k5-2009-06-17T22:38:00.000Z-Fhue-2009-06-17T19:38:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-NRen2k5-2009-06-17T22:38:00.000Z-Fhue-2009-06-17T19:38:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl> <p><br/> </p> <dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-68.41.80.161-2009-07-07T04:37:00.000Z-NRen2k5-2009-06-17T22:38:00.000Z"></span>Wow.. this article looks really good and NPOV right now. So Kudos to all of you holding the fort down. --<a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/68.41.80.161" title="Special:Contributions/68.41.80.161">68.41.80.161</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:68.41.80.161" title="User talk:68.41.80.161">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Whale_Wars#c-68.41.80.161-2009-07-07T04:37:00.000Z-NRen2k5-2009-06-17T22:38:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">04:37, 7 July 2009 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-68.41.80.161-2009-07-07T04:37:00.000Z-NRen2k5-2009-06-17T22:38:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-68.41.80.161-2009-07-07T04:37:00.000Z-NRen2k5-2009-06-17T22:38:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Captain" data-mw-thread-id="h-Captain-2009-07-07T06:35:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Captain-2009-07-07T06:35:00.000Z"></span>Captain<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Captain-2009-07-07T06:35:00.000Z"></span></h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Cptnono-2009-07-07T06:35:00.000Z-Captain"></span>been thinking about this one. He is the "Captain" for the show which this article is about. Who knows if the Doctor is really an MD. For other articles, it could be argued that he is not in command of a naval or merchant vessel and he may not be licensed (don't know if he is or not) but he is the master of the ship which leads to the term. This might be more controversial to people in the maritime industry, though. I've seen it come up randomly on the web so some people do have a concern with the title. I'm on the fence for other articles but this title is at the least acceptable in the cast table for the show.<a href="/wiki/User:Cptnono" title="User:Cptnono">Cptnono</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Cptnono" title="User talk:Cptnono">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Whale_Wars#c-Cptnono-2009-07-07T06:35:00.000Z-Captain" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">06:35, 7 July 2009 (UTC)</a>06:35, 7 July 2009 (UTC)<span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Cptnono-2009-07-07T06:35:00.000Z-Captain"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Cptnono-2009-07-07T06:35:00.000Z-Captain"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-NRen2k5-2009-07-14T00:23:00.000Z-Cptnono-2009-07-07T06:35:00.000Z"></span>It’s already made perfectly clear that he’s the leader of the organization and commander of its vessels. I don’t see how respecting his wish to be referred to as “Captain Watson” adds anything to any article. — <em><a href="/wiki/User:NRen2k5" class="mw-redirect" title="User:NRen2k5">NRen2k5</a></em><sup>(<a href="/wiki/User_talk:NRen2k5" class="mw-redirect" title="User talk:NRen2k5">TALK</a>)</sup>, <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Whale_Wars#c-NRen2k5-2009-07-14T00:23:00.000Z-Cptnono-2009-07-07T06:35:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:23, 14 July 2009 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-NRen2k5-2009-07-14T00:23:00.000Z-Cptnono-2009-07-07T06:35:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-NRen2k5-2009-07-14T00:23:00.000Z-Cptnono-2009-07-07T06:35:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Cptnono-2009-07-14T02:57:00.000Z-NRen2k5-2009-07-14T00:23:00.000Z"></span>captain paul watson has been turned into Watson. Added quotes to titles in cast box. Alright fix?<a href="/wiki/User:Cptnono" title="User:Cptnono">Cptnono</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Cptnono" title="User talk:Cptnono">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Whale_Wars#c-Cptnono-2009-07-14T02:57:00.000Z-NRen2k5-2009-07-14T00:23:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:57, 14 July 2009 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Cptnono-2009-07-14T02:57:00.000Z-NRen2k5-2009-07-14T00:23:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Cptnono-2009-07-14T02:57:00.000Z-NRen2k5-2009-07-14T00:23:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-NRen2k5-2009-07-14T06:08:00.000Z-Cptnono-2009-07-14T02:57:00.000Z"></span>Sounds great. — <em><a href="/wiki/User:NRen2k5" class="mw-redirect" title="User:NRen2k5">NRen2k5</a></em><sup>(<a href="/wiki/User_talk:NRen2k5" class="mw-redirect" title="User talk:NRen2k5">TALK</a>)</sup>, <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Whale_Wars#c-NRen2k5-2009-07-14T06:08:00.000Z-Cptnono-2009-07-14T02:57:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">06:08, 14 July 2009 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-NRen2k5-2009-07-14T06:08:00.000Z-Cptnono-2009-07-14T02:57:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-NRen2k5-2009-07-14T06:08:00.000Z-Cptnono-2009-07-14T02:57:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Cptnono-2009-11-13T11:23:00.000Z-NRen2k5-2009-07-14T06:08:00.000Z"></span>These have been removed a couple times. I don't think anyone wants to edit war over it so I'll restart this conversation. RS has covered if Watson is technically a captain or not so what might look like scare quotes makes some sense. This was applied to all positions since they are a role in a casting box. We don't know if the doctor is even a doctor (I don't have any reason to believe not) but using it for all names prevents what would like POV pushing by <i>just</i> applying it to the captain. This is a minor change that makes a big difference factually. I could see replacing the POSITION column heading with ROLE if the quotes are a big problem.<a href="/wiki/User:Cptnono" title="User:Cptnono">Cptnono</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Cptnono" title="User talk:Cptnono">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Whale_Wars#c-Cptnono-2009-11-13T11:23:00.000Z-NRen2k5-2009-07-14T06:08:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">11:23, 13 November 2009 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Cptnono-2009-11-13T11:23:00.000Z-NRen2k5-2009-07-14T06:08:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Cptnono-2009-11-13T11:23:00.000Z-NRen2k5-2009-07-14T06:08:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Cptnono-2009-11-13T11:36:00.000Z-Cptnono-2009-11-13T11:23:00.000Z"></span>Follow-up: Trying ROLE. Position can imply more than their role on the vessel or the television show while role can be both. <a href="/wiki/User:Cptnono" title="User:Cptnono">Cptnono</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Cptnono" title="User talk:Cptnono">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Whale_Wars#c-Cptnono-2009-11-13T11:36:00.000Z-Cptnono-2009-11-13T11:23:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">11:36, 13 November 2009 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Cptnono-2009-11-13T11:36:00.000Z-Cptnono-2009-11-13T11:23:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Cptnono-2009-11-13T11:36:00.000Z-Cptnono-2009-11-13T11:23:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Information_on_"battles"" data-mw-thread-id="h-Information_on_"battles"-2009-07-26T15:38:00.000Z"><span id="Information_on_.22battles.22"></span><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Information_on_"battles"-2009-07-26T15:38:00.000Z"></span>Information on "battles"<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Information_on_"battles"-2009-07-26T15:38:00.000Z"></span></h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-71.191.176.207-2009-07-26T15:38:00.000Z-Information_on_"battles""></span>In reading the article, I couldn't find anything that actually described how the "battles" that are talked about consist of. Can someone please add it? <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">—Preceding <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Signatures" title="Wikipedia:Signatures">unsigned</a> comment added by <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/71.191.176.207" title="Special:Contributions/71.191.176.207">71.191.176.207</a> (<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:71.191.176.207&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User talk:71.191.176.207 (page does not exist)">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Whale_Wars#c-71.191.176.207-2009-07-26T15:38:00.000Z-Information_on_"battles"" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:38, 26 July 2009 (UTC)</a></span><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-71.191.176.207-2009-07-26T15:38:00.000Z-Information_on_"battles""><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-71.191.176.207-2009-07-26T15:38:00.000Z-Information_on_"battles""></span> </p> <dl><dd><a href="/wiki/Sea_Shepherd_Conservation_Society#Operations" title="Sea Shepherd Conservation Society"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Cptnono-2009-07-27T06:06:00.000Z-71.191.176.207-2009-07-26T15:38:00.000Z"></span>Sea Shepherd Conservation Society#Operations</a> . This made me think that the lead may need some tinkering since it doesn't give too much info:</dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd><i>Whale Wars is a one-hour weekly American documentary-style reality television series that premiered on November 7, 2008 on Animal Planet cable channel. The program follows Paul Watson, founder of the Sea Shepherd Conservation Society, as he and his crew aboard the MV Steve Irwin attempt to deter Japanese ships that hunt minke and fin whales off the coast of Antarctica.</i></dd></dl></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd><i>The Sea Shepherd Conservation Society disputes the Japanese claim that the whaling done in the Southern Ocean Whale Sanctuary is legally accepted research and is instead banned commercially based whaling. Sea Shepherd has been both criticized and praised for tactics which include throwing stink bombs at, boarding, and attempting to disable the Japanese vessels. Due to the controversial nature of the show, Animal Planet displays the disclaimer: "The following program contains commentary and opinions that do not necessarily reflect the opinions of Animal Planet."</i></dd></dl></dd></dl> <dl><dd>Any thoughts? I am going for it being concise (expansion in the subsections or appropriate wikilinks), neutral, and related to the show. If OK, it will need to be grammar checked, NPOV checked, and wikified. Also, if we are ever going to get this up to GA status we need to discuss the production and disclaimer in the main body of the article.<a href="/wiki/User:Cptnono" title="User:Cptnono">Cptnono</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Cptnono" title="User talk:Cptnono">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Whale_Wars#c-Cptnono-2009-07-27T06:06:00.000Z-71.191.176.207-2009-07-26T15:38:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">06:06, 27 July 2009 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Cptnono-2009-07-27T06:06:00.000Z-71.191.176.207-2009-07-26T15:38:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Cptnono-2009-07-27T06:06:00.000Z-71.191.176.207-2009-07-26T15:38:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Controversy_surrounding_Co-founder_GreenPeace_claims" data-mw-thread-id="h-Controversy_surrounding_Co-founder_GreenPeace_claims-2009-08-29T14:07:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Controversy_surrounding_Co-founder_GreenPeace_claims-2009-08-29T14:07:00.000Z"></span>Controversy surrounding Co-founder GreenPeace claims<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Controversy_surrounding_Co-founder_GreenPeace_claims-2009-08-29T14:07:00.000Z"></span></h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Brianrusso-2009-08-29T14:07:00.000Z-Controversy_surrounding_Co-founder_GreenPeace_claims"></span>Paul Watson has repeatedly stated he was a co-founder of greenpeace; Greenpeace currently refers to him as an 'early activist'. There is also a statement where they clarify that he was not a co-founder. However while I do not know either way (nor especially care); in this case I'm not convinced Greenpeace is actually a reliable source on their own founders - which I know sounds silly - but if the allegations of SSCS that they have engaged in historical revision in this matter - then they're simply not reliable. What we need is a third party source. Ideally a source with knowledge of what actually went on back in the 70s but has no personal interest in this matter. (<a href="/wiki/User:Brianrusso" title="User:Brianrusso">Brianrusso</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Brianrusso" title="User talk:Brianrusso">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Whale_Wars#c-Brianrusso-2009-08-29T14:07:00.000Z-Controversy_surrounding_Co-founder_GreenPeace_claims" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">14:07, 29 August 2009 (UTC)</a>)<span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Brianrusso-2009-08-29T14:07:00.000Z-Controversy_surrounding_Co-founder_GreenPeace_claims"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Brianrusso-2009-08-29T14:07:00.000Z-Controversy_surrounding_Co-founder_GreenPeace_claims"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Wilhelm_meis-2009-08-29T14:47:00.000Z-Brianrusso-2009-08-29T14:07:00.000Z"></span>Would you consider any of these (<a rel="nofollow" class="external autonumber" href="http://nl.newsbank.com/nl-search/we/Archives?p_product=NewsLibrary&p_multi=CSGB&d_place=CSGB&p_theme=newslibrary2&p_action=search&p_maxdocs=200&p_topdoc=1&p_text_direct-0=0F34BC86331E5940&p_field_direct-0=document_id&p_perpage=10&p_sort=YMD_date:D&s_trackval=GooglePM">[1]</a>, <a rel="nofollow" class="external autonumber" href="http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1P1-20694551.html">[2]</a>, <a rel="nofollow" class="external autonumber" href="http://news.scotsman.com/latestnews/Still-spouting.3687010.jp">[3]</a>) reliable sources? You might notice these articles represent a range of dates from 1989 to 2008, and two of these even use the term "Greenpeace founder" in reference to Watson in the headlines. If Greenpeace has actively denied that Watson was a co-founder, I think the most neutral approach would be to include both references that document Watson's claim that he was and Greenpeace's denial. I'm not saying we should <i>support</i> either position, but that we should <i>report</i> and verify both sides' claims. <font face="Frankenstein SF, Luftwaffe, Fraktur Plain, Fraktur, Old English Text MT" size="4"><a href="/wiki/User:Wilhelm_meis" title="User:Wilhelm meis">Wilhelm Meis</a></font> <font face="Helvetica">(<b><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Wilhelm_meis" title="User talk:Wilhelm meis">Quatsch!</a></b>)</font> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Whale_Wars#c-Wilhelm_meis-2009-08-29T14:47:00.000Z-Brianrusso-2009-08-29T14:07:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">14:47, 29 August 2009 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Wilhelm_meis-2009-08-29T14:47:00.000Z-Brianrusso-2009-08-29T14:07:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Wilhelm_meis-2009-08-29T14:47:00.000Z-Brianrusso-2009-08-29T14:07:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Brianrusso-2009-08-29T14:57:00.000Z-Controversy_surrounding_Co-founder_GreenPeace_claims"></span>I don't really consider any of those good sources, as quite likely they just took him at his word. Frankly I don't think this is the sort of thing that can be solved using google; I think someone would have to do actual research/investigation - and frankly may not be worth it since the more I read I see a lot of terms like 'founder, co-founder, founder member, founding member, early member, influential member'. It's all a pretty ambiguous thing considering that from what I've read Greenpeace's origins were pretty 'organic' anyway; not really being formalized and it not even being very objective at which point it was really founded. By all sources I've found Paul Watson was not on the first ship to go to amchitka to 'observe' nuclear testing by the US; but that wasn't really Greenpeace per se and it didn't actually become greenpeace until some years later. </p><p>Anyway, I just added a note in the article that it's disputed and referenced greenpeace's news bit about their PoV. This discussion really belongs in the [Paul Watson] article and it's already mentioned there anyway. One alternative is to remove it entirely and redo the 'featured cast' part so it doesn't mention it. That said, it is mentioned in the show relatively frequently. Perhaps leaving it as-is now with the mention of dispute is okay and let the readers decide? Like I said, I don't think there's going to be any easily found, reliable source for this online. (<a href="/wiki/User:Brianrusso" title="User:Brianrusso">Brianrusso</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Brianrusso" title="User talk:Brianrusso">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Whale_Wars#c-Brianrusso-2009-08-29T14:57:00.000Z-Controversy_surrounding_Co-founder_GreenPeace_claims" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">14:57, 29 August 2009 (UTC)</a>)<span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Brianrusso-2009-08-29T14:57:00.000Z-Controversy_surrounding_Co-founder_GreenPeace_claims"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Brianrusso-2009-08-29T14:57:00.000Z-Controversy_surrounding_Co-founder_GreenPeace_claims"></span> </p> <dl><dd><dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Cptnono-2009-08-30T01:12:00.000Z-Brianrusso-2009-08-29T14:57:00.000Z"></span>I just removed it. This doesn't belong in the comment box regarding his role for the show. Sea Shepherd, Paul Watson, and maybe a line somewhere else would be OK places for it. Also, if you do want to adjust those pages, Watson says he is. Greenpeace says he is an early member but not a "founder". An early and influential member seems to work.<a href="/wiki/User:Cptnono" title="User:Cptnono">Cptnono</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Cptnono" title="User talk:Cptnono">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Whale_Wars#c-Cptnono-2009-08-30T01:12:00.000Z-Brianrusso-2009-08-29T14:57:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:12, 30 August 2009 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Cptnono-2009-08-30T01:12:00.000Z-Brianrusso-2009-08-29T14:57:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Cptnono-2009-08-30T01:12:00.000Z-Brianrusso-2009-08-29T14:57:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl> <p><br/><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Brianrusso-2009-08-31T11:10:00.000Z-Controversy_surrounding_Co-founder_GreenPeace_claims"></span> Fine with me (<a href="/wiki/User:Brianrusso" title="User:Brianrusso">Brianrusso</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Brianrusso" title="User talk:Brianrusso">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Whale_Wars#c-Brianrusso-2009-08-31T11:10:00.000Z-Controversy_surrounding_Co-founder_GreenPeace_claims" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">11:10, 31 August 2009 (UTC)</a>)<span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Brianrusso-2009-08-31T11:10:00.000Z-Controversy_surrounding_Co-founder_GreenPeace_claims"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Brianrusso-2009-08-31T11:10:00.000Z-Controversy_surrounding_Co-founder_GreenPeace_claims"></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="South_Park_critique" data-mw-thread-id="h-South_Park_critique-2009-10-29T04:17:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-South_Park_critique-2009-10-29T04:17:00.000Z"></span>South Park critique<span data-mw-comment-end="h-South_Park_critique-2009-10-29T04:17:00.000Z"></span></h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Alatari-2009-10-29T04:17:00.000Z-South_Park_critique"></span>This weeks South Park episode lampoons Whale Wars and the captain. South Park focuses on him lying, the ineffectiveness of their methods, infers the show is boring and implies the show is on the verge of cancellation. They hold no punches in their criticism of Paul Watson. Howto source this and should we include the critiques in the cultural section. <a href="/wiki/User:Alatari" title="User:Alatari">Alatari</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Alatari" title="User talk:Alatari">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Whale_Wars#c-Alatari-2009-10-29T04:17:00.000Z-South_Park_critique" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">04:17, 29 October 2009 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Alatari-2009-10-29T04:17:00.000Z-South_Park_critique"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Alatari-2009-10-29T04:17:00.000Z-South_Park_critique"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Cptnono-2009-10-29T05:18:00.000Z-Alatari-2009-10-29T04:17:00.000Z"></span>This is hilarious! The reception section needs to be expanded into prose. This might be a good reason to start and include it there. We can cite episode to pull quotes but we could easily fall into the trap of making up our own commentary. I would reccomend waiting until a reivew comes out and going from there but we could try being really really cautious . <a href="/wiki/User:Cptnono" title="User:Cptnono">Cptnono</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Cptnono" title="User talk:Cptnono">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Whale_Wars#c-Cptnono-2009-10-29T05:18:00.000Z-Alatari-2009-10-29T04:17:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">05:18, 29 October 2009 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Cptnono-2009-10-29T05:18:00.000Z-Alatari-2009-10-29T04:17:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Cptnono-2009-10-29T05:18:00.000Z-Alatari-2009-10-29T04:17:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Alatari-2009-10-30T08:47:00.000Z-South_Park_critique"></span>I added the South Park critique including some sources and it was revised down to almost nothing. I'm restoring a better sourced extended version. The new source is from a reliable one; The Christian Science Monitor. Transcripts are not available from the episode but the criticisms are made at the 9:00 "Whale Wars get better...", 9:23 "new captain not a big fat liar", 11:29 "incompetent vegan ....", 11:34 has an actual picture of Paul Watson and states "Paul Watson is an unorganized, incompetent, media whore who thought lying to everyone was OK as long as it served his cause". If we want to debate whether South Parks critiques are notable I'm sure that can easily be resolved as it has been debated before. The sources I posted and which were deleted are just a few. <a href="/wiki/User:Alatari" title="User:Alatari">Alatari</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Alatari" title="User talk:Alatari">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Whale_Wars#c-Alatari-2009-10-30T08:47:00.000Z-South_Park_critique" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">08:47, 30 October 2009 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Alatari-2009-10-30T08:47:00.000Z-South_Park_critique"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Alatari-2009-10-30T08:47:00.000Z-South_Park_critique"></span> </p><p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Alatari-2009-11-11T06:45:00.000Z-South_Park_critique"></span>Here's Paul's views: <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="http://www.seashepherd.org/news-and-media/news-091103-1.html">The See Shepherd Society's printing of Paul Watson's response to the episode</a>. I've never watched the show and look forward to it so maybe it's getting the South Park 'bump'. <a href="/wiki/User:Alatari" title="User:Alatari">Alatari</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Alatari" title="User talk:Alatari">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Whale_Wars#c-Alatari-2009-11-11T06:45:00.000Z-South_Park_critique" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">06:45, 11 November 2009 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Alatari-2009-11-11T06:45:00.000Z-South_Park_critique"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Alatari-2009-11-11T06:45:00.000Z-South_Park_critique"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Cptnono-2009-11-11T08:57:00.000Z-Alatari-2009-11-11T06:45:00.000Z"></span>This isn't a forum. Both seashepherd.com and myspace are not RS.<a href="/wiki/User:Cptnono" title="User:Cptnono">Cptnono</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Cptnono" title="User talk:Cptnono">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Whale_Wars#c-Cptnono-2009-11-11T08:57:00.000Z-Alatari-2009-11-11T06:45:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">08:57, 11 November 2009 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Cptnono-2009-11-11T08:57:00.000Z-Alatari-2009-11-11T06:45:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Cptnono-2009-11-11T08:57:00.000Z-Alatari-2009-11-11T06:45:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Cptnono-2009-11-11T08:57:00.000Z-Cptnono-2009-11-11T08:57:00.000Z"></span>Follow-up. Don't touch other people's comments. You can use the template or check the edit history. <a href="/wiki/User:Cptnono" title="User:Cptnono">Cptnono</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Cptnono" title="User talk:Cptnono">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Whale_Wars#c-Cptnono-2009-11-11T08:57:00.000Z-Cptnono-2009-11-11T08:57:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">08:57, 11 November 2009 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Cptnono-2009-11-11T08:57:00.000Z-Cptnono-2009-11-11T08:57:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Cptnono-2009-11-11T08:57:00.000Z-Cptnono-2009-11-11T08:57:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Alatari-2009-11-11T09:02:00.000Z-South_Park_critique"></span>Looked like vandalism; just random comments from an IP. Anyways Seashepard.com response from Paul Watson might be self-published but is certainly a reliable source for this article. <a href="/wiki/User:Alatari" title="User:Alatari">Alatari</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Alatari" title="User talk:Alatari">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Whale_Wars#c-Alatari-2009-11-11T09:02:00.000Z-South_Park_critique" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">09:02, 11 November 2009 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Alatari-2009-11-11T09:02:00.000Z-South_Park_critique"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Alatari-2009-11-11T09:02:00.000Z-South_Park_critique"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Cptnono-2009-11-11T10:07:00.000Z-Alatari-2009-11-11T09:02:00.000Z"></span>It is unduly self serving (see <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:SELFPUB" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:SELFPUB">WP:SELFPUB</a> and such) and isn't required since there is reasonable independent coverage to take its place. It has also proven to not be reliable since there is an admission to not telling the truth. They have a goal and they are trying to reach it which is OK but unfortunately it doesn't work for our purposes (encyclopedic unbiased facts). Their response also isn't important. Makers of a cartoon said they sucked. The end. <a href="/wiki/User:Cptnono" title="User:Cptnono">Cptnono</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Cptnono" title="User talk:Cptnono">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Whale_Wars#c-Cptnono-2009-11-11T10:07:00.000Z-Alatari-2009-11-11T09:02:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">10:07, 11 November 2009 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Cptnono-2009-11-11T10:07:00.000Z-Alatari-2009-11-11T09:02:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Cptnono-2009-11-11T10:07:00.000Z-Alatari-2009-11-11T09:02:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Cptnono-2009-11-11T10:18:00.000Z-Cptnono-2009-11-11T10:07:00.000Z"></span>Folow-up: It is also appropriate to link to conversations you are taking off the discussion pagein the attempt to gain approval. Over there, I also made sure to mention bullet point number four: "there is no reasonable doubt as to its authenticity". Please don't make a big deal out of this unless you really are trying to get the source you mentioned in the article. If you are, then we have to discuss SEWLFPUB more + weight iussues. Do you really want that source in?<a href="/wiki/User:Cptnono" title="User:Cptnono">Cptnono</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Cptnono" title="User talk:Cptnono">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Whale_Wars#c-Cptnono-2009-11-11T10:18:00.000Z-Cptnono-2009-11-11T10:07:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">10:18, 11 November 2009 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Cptnono-2009-11-11T10:18:00.000Z-Cptnono-2009-11-11T10:07:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Cptnono-2009-11-11T10:18:00.000Z-Cptnono-2009-11-11T10:07:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Alatari-2009-11-11T10:25:00.000Z-South_Park_critique"></span>I didn't have time yet to link that discussion here and posting outside discussion links here is not mandatory. <a href="/wiki/User:Alatari" title="User:Alatari">Alatari</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Alatari" title="User talk:Alatari">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Whale_Wars#c-Alatari-2009-11-11T10:25:00.000Z-South_Park_critique" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">10:25, 11 November 2009 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Alatari-2009-11-11T10:25:00.000Z-South_Park_critique"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Alatari-2009-11-11T10:25:00.000Z-South_Park_critique"></span> </p><p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Alatari-2009-11-11T10:19:00.000Z-South_Park_critique"></span>My point is that he seems to take it in stride and thinks it furthers his cause and helps Whale Wars. You are saying that the organization/person being attacked response is unimportant? I am saying that a heavy handed, bruising criticism of a person or organization does allow for a defense from that person/organization. <a href="/wiki/User:Alatari" title="User:Alatari">Alatari</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Alatari" title="User talk:Alatari">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Whale_Wars#c-Alatari-2009-11-11T10:19:00.000Z-South_Park_critique" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">10:19, 11 November 2009 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Alatari-2009-11-11T10:19:00.000Z-South_Park_critique"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Alatari-2009-11-11T10:19:00.000Z-South_Park_critique"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Cptnono-2009-11-11T10:36:00.000Z-Alatari-2009-11-11T10:19:00.000Z"></span>I know it sounds harsh but in a way yes. I am not making a claim to importance, though. I believe we should limit the amount of links to a site that provides inaccurate information. The reliable sources already provide neutrally base commentary and if they don't it is our job to summarize it as such. If we used their site as a rebuttal to every piece of criticism levied against them we would be spitting in the face of the principles that guide undue weight and fringe theory. It would disrupt our ability to provide a balanced article and would provide the group a platform on Wikipedia that is better left on their webpage. That being said, it is not an excuse to have open season on the group or related topics. We need ot pick our sources carefully and make sure to use discretion when summarizing them. I also think you should attempt to find other sources. One thing I have noticed with the group is that their is plenty of press coverage that is sympathetic to their cause or will balance out their own criticism with appropriate quotes. From looking at the topic for an extended period of time I have realized that we do not <i>need</i> to ise their site just like we don't <i>need</i> to use the harshest press releases from their critics. The New Yorker and National Geographic are two perfect examples of RS that have done the job without their website. We also have external links for SSCS.</dd> <dd>And there is a difference between mandatory and good form especially when claims of forum shopping (not that I am making it) could be made. Play nice and honest and everything should work out just fine.<a href="/wiki/User:Cptnono" title="User:Cptnono">Cptnono</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Cptnono" title="User talk:Cptnono">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Whale_Wars#c-Cptnono-2009-11-11T10:36:00.000Z-Alatari-2009-11-11T10:19:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">10:36, 11 November 2009 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Cptnono-2009-11-11T10:36:00.000Z-Alatari-2009-11-11T10:19:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Cptnono-2009-11-11T10:36:00.000Z-Alatari-2009-11-11T10:19:00.000Z"></span></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Cptnono-2009-11-11T10:38:00.000Z-Alatari-2009-11-11T10:19:00.000Z"></span>I also attempt to be neuteral (see this edit from seconds ago <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Paul_Watson&action=historysubmit&diff=325222726&oldid=325222295">diff</a>)<a href="/wiki/User:Cptnono" title="User:Cptnono">Cptnono</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Cptnono" title="User talk:Cptnono">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Whale_Wars#c-Cptnono-2009-11-11T10:38:00.000Z-Alatari-2009-11-11T10:19:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">10:38, 11 November 2009 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Cptnono-2009-11-11T10:38:00.000Z-Alatari-2009-11-11T10:19:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Cptnono-2009-11-11T10:38:00.000Z-Alatari-2009-11-11T10:19:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Alatari-2009-11-11T11:06:00.000Z-South_Park_critique"></span>Hmmm, this is a new aspect of sourcing to me and if I do nothing more still some lessons learned. <a href="/wiki/User:Alatari" title="User:Alatari">Alatari</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Alatari" title="User talk:Alatari">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Whale_Wars#c-Alatari-2009-11-11T11:06:00.000Z-South_Park_critique" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">11:06, 11 November 2009 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Alatari-2009-11-11T11:06:00.000Z-South_Park_critique"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Alatari-2009-11-11T11:06:00.000Z-South_Park_critique"></span> </p> <div class="mw-references-wrap"><ol class="references"> <li id="cite_note-1"><span class="mw-cite-backlink"><b><a href="#cite_ref-1">^</a></b></span> <span class="reference-text"><a rel="nofollow" class="external free" href="http://www.amplifier.co.nz/video,40154,2.do">http://www.amplifier.co.nz/video,40154,2.do</a></span> </li> <li id="cite_note-2"><span class="mw-cite-backlink"><b><a href="#cite_ref-2">^</a></b></span> <span class="reference-text"><a rel="nofollow" class="external free" href="http://www.seashepherd.org/news-and-media/news-071119-1.html">http://www.seashepherd.org/news-and-media/news-071119-1.html</a></span> </li> </ol></div></div><noscript><img src="https://login.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:CentralAutoLogin/start?type=1x1" alt="" width="1" height="1" style="border: none; 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