CINXE.COM

<!DOCTYPE html> <html class="client-nojs vector-feature-language-in-header-enabled vector-feature-language-in-main-page-header-disabled vector-feature-sticky-header-disabled vector-feature-page-tools-pinned-disabled vector-feature-toc-pinned-clientpref-1 vector-feature-main-menu-pinned-disabled vector-feature-limited-width-clientpref-1 vector-feature-limited-width-content-enabled vector-feature-custom-font-size-clientpref-1 vector-feature-appearance-pinned-clientpref-1 vector-feature-night-mode-enabled skin-theme-clientpref-day vector-toc-available" lang="en" dir="ltr"> <head> <meta charset="UTF-8"> <title>User talk:Victor Engel - Wikipedia</title> <script>(function(){var className="client-js vector-feature-language-in-header-enabled vector-feature-language-in-main-page-header-disabled vector-feature-sticky-header-disabled vector-feature-page-tools-pinned-disabled vector-feature-toc-pinned-clientpref-1 vector-feature-main-menu-pinned-disabled vector-feature-limited-width-clientpref-1 vector-feature-limited-width-content-enabled vector-feature-custom-font-size-clientpref-1 vector-feature-appearance-pinned-clientpref-1 vector-feature-night-mode-enabled skin-theme-clientpref-day vector-toc-available";var cookie=document.cookie.match(/(?:^|; )enwikimwclientpreferences=([^;]+)/);if(cookie){cookie[1].split('%2C').forEach(function(pref){className=className.replace(new RegExp('(^| )'+pref.replace(/-clientpref-\w+$|[^\w-]+/g,'')+'-clientpref-\\w+( |$)'),'$1'+pref+'$2');});}document.documentElement.className=className;}());RLCONF={"wgBreakFrames":false,"wgSeparatorTransformTable":["",""],"wgDigitTransformTable":["",""],"wgDefaultDateFormat":"dmy", "wgMonthNames":["","January","February","March","April","May","June","July","August","September","October","November","December"],"wgRequestId":"05d18896-9337-492e-baaf-8cc4aa929f31","wgCanonicalNamespace":"User_talk","wgCanonicalSpecialPageName":false,"wgNamespaceNumber":3,"wgPageName":"User_talk:Victor_Engel","wgTitle":"Victor Engel","wgCurRevisionId":1258257631,"wgRevisionId":1258257631,"wgArticleId":297207,"wgIsArticle":true,"wgIsRedirect":false,"wgAction":"view","wgUserName":null,"wgUserGroups":["*"],"wgCategories":[],"wgPageViewLanguage":"en","wgPageContentLanguage":"en","wgPageContentModel":"wikitext","wgRelevantPageName":"User_talk:Victor_Engel","wgRelevantArticleId":297207,"wgIsProbablyEditable":true,"wgRelevantPageIsProbablyEditable":true,"wgRestrictionEdit":[],"wgRestrictionMove":[],"wgRelevantUserName":"Victor Engel","wgNoticeProject":"wikipedia","wgCiteReferencePreviewsActive":false,"wgFlaggedRevsParams":{"tags":{"status":{"levels":1}}},"wgMediaViewerOnClick":true, "wgMediaViewerEnabledByDefault":true,"wgPopupsFlags":0,"wgVisualEditor":{"pageLanguageCode":"en","pageLanguageDir":"ltr","pageVariantFallbacks":"en"},"wgMFDisplayWikibaseDescriptions":{"search":true,"watchlist":true,"tagline":false,"nearby":true},"wgWMESchemaEditAttemptStepOversample":false,"wgWMEPageLength":40000,"wgRelatedArticlesCompat":[],"wgCentralAuthMobileDomain":false,"wgEditSubmitButtonLabelPublish":true,"wgDiscussionToolsFeaturesEnabled":{"replytool":true,"newtopictool":true,"sourcemodetoolbar":true,"topicsubscription":false,"autotopicsub":false,"visualenhancements":false,"visualenhancements_reply":false,"visualenhancements_pageframe":false},"wgDiscussionToolsFallbackEditMode":"source","wgULSPosition":"interlanguage","wgULSisCompactLinksEnabled":false,"wgVector2022LanguageInHeader":true,"wgULSisLanguageSelectorEmpty":true,"wgCheckUserClientHintsHeadersJsApi":["brands","architecture","bitness","fullVersionList","mobile","model","platform","platformVersion"], "GEHomepageSuggestedEditsEnableTopics":true,"wgGETopicsMatchModeEnabled":false,"wgGEStructuredTaskRejectionReasonTextInputEnabled":false,"wgGELevelingUpEnabledForUser":false};RLSTATE={"ext.globalCssJs.user.styles":"ready","site.styles":"ready","user.styles":"ready","ext.globalCssJs.user":"ready","user":"ready","user.options":"loading","ext.discussionTools.init.styles":"ready","oojs-ui-core.styles":"ready","oojs-ui.styles.indicators":"ready","mediawiki.widgets.styles":"ready","oojs-ui-core.icons":"ready","skins.vector.search.codex.styles":"ready","skins.vector.styles":"ready","skins.vector.icons":"ready","ext.wikimediamessages.styles":"ready","ext.visualEditor.desktopArticleTarget.noscript":"ready","ext.uls.interlanguage":"ready","ext.wikimediaBadges":"ready"};RLPAGEMODULES=["site","mediawiki.page.ready","mediawiki.toc","skins.vector.js","ext.centralNotice.geoIP","ext.centralNotice.startUp","ext.gadget.ReferenceTooltips","ext.gadget.switcher","ext.urlShortener.toolbar", "ext.centralauth.centralautologin","mmv.bootstrap","ext.popups","ext.visualEditor.desktopArticleTarget.init","ext.visualEditor.targetLoader","ext.echo.centralauth","ext.discussionTools.init","ext.eventLogging","ext.wikimediaEvents","ext.navigationTiming","ext.uls.interface","ext.cx.eventlogging.campaigns","ext.checkUser.clientHints"];</script> <script>(RLQ=window.RLQ||[]).push(function(){mw.loader.impl(function(){return["user.options@12s5i",function($,jQuery,require,module){mw.user.tokens.set({"patrolToken":"+\\","watchToken":"+\\","csrfToken":"+\\"}); }];});});</script> <link rel="stylesheet" href="/w/load.php?lang=en&modules=ext.discussionTools.init.styles%7Cext.uls.interlanguage%7Cext.visualEditor.desktopArticleTarget.noscript%7Cext.wikimediaBadges%7Cext.wikimediamessages.styles%7Cmediawiki.widgets.styles%7Coojs-ui-core.icons%2Cstyles%7Coojs-ui.styles.indicators%7Cskins.vector.icons%2Cstyles%7Cskins.vector.search.codex.styles&only=styles&skin=vector-2022"> <script async="" src="/w/load.php?lang=en&modules=startup&only=scripts&raw=1&skin=vector-2022"></script> <meta name="ResourceLoaderDynamicStyles" content=""> <link rel="stylesheet" href="/w/load.php?lang=en&modules=site.styles&only=styles&skin=vector-2022"> <meta name="generator" content="MediaWiki 1.44.0-wmf.4"> <meta name="referrer" content="origin"> <meta name="referrer" content="origin-when-cross-origin"> <meta name="robots" content="noindex,follow,max-image-preview:standard"> <meta name="format-detection" content="telephone=no"> <meta name="viewport" content="width=1120"> <meta property="og:title" content="User talk:Victor Engel - Wikipedia"> <meta property="og:type" content="website"> <link rel="preconnect" href="//upload.wikimedia.org"> <link rel="alternate" media="only screen and (max-width: 640px)" href="//en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Victor_Engel"> <link rel="alternate" type="application/x-wiki" title="Edit this page" href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Victor_Engel&action=edit"> <link rel="apple-touch-icon" href="/static/apple-touch/wikipedia.png"> <link rel="icon" href="/static/favicon/wikipedia.ico"> <link rel="search" type="application/opensearchdescription+xml" href="/w/rest.php/v1/search" title="Wikipedia (en)"> <link rel="EditURI" type="application/rsd+xml" href="//en.wikipedia.org/w/api.php?action=rsd"> <link rel="canonical" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Victor_Engel"> <link rel="license" href="https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/deed.en"> <link rel="alternate" type="application/atom+xml" title="Wikipedia Atom feed" href="/w/index.php?title=Special:RecentChanges&feed=atom"> <link rel="dns-prefetch" href="//meta.wikimedia.org" /> <link rel="dns-prefetch" href="//login.wikimedia.org"> </head> <body class="ext-discussiontools-replytool-enabled ext-discussiontools-newtopictool-enabled ext-discussiontools-sourcemodetoolbar-enabled skin--responsive skin-vector skin-vector-search-vue mediawiki ltr sitedir-ltr mw-hide-empty-elt ns-3 ns-talk mw-editable page-User_talk_Victor_Engel rootpage-User_talk_Victor_Engel skin-vector-2022 action-view"><a class="mw-jump-link" href="#bodyContent">Jump to content</a> <div class="vector-header-container"> <header class="vector-header mw-header"> <div class="vector-header-start"> <nav class="vector-main-menu-landmark" aria-label="Site"> <div id="vector-main-menu-dropdown" class="vector-dropdown vector-main-menu-dropdown vector-button-flush-left vector-button-flush-right" > <input type="checkbox" id="vector-main-menu-dropdown-checkbox" role="button" aria-haspopup="true" data-event-name="ui.dropdown-vector-main-menu-dropdown" class="vector-dropdown-checkbox " aria-label="Main menu" > <label id="vector-main-menu-dropdown-label" for="vector-main-menu-dropdown-checkbox" class="vector-dropdown-label cdx-button cdx-button--fake-button cdx-button--fake-button--enabled cdx-button--weight-quiet cdx-button--icon-only " aria-hidden="true" ><span class="vector-icon mw-ui-icon-menu mw-ui-icon-wikimedia-menu"></span> <span class="vector-dropdown-label-text">Main menu</span> </label> <div class="vector-dropdown-content"> <div id="vector-main-menu-unpinned-container" class="vector-unpinned-container"> <div id="vector-main-menu" class="vector-main-menu vector-pinnable-element"> <div class="vector-pinnable-header vector-main-menu-pinnable-header vector-pinnable-header-unpinned" data-feature-name="main-menu-pinned" data-pinnable-element-id="vector-main-menu" data-pinned-container-id="vector-main-menu-pinned-container" data-unpinned-container-id="vector-main-menu-unpinned-container" > <div class="vector-pinnable-header-label">Main menu</div> <button class="vector-pinnable-header-toggle-button vector-pinnable-header-pin-button" data-event-name="pinnable-header.vector-main-menu.pin">move to sidebar</button> <button class="vector-pinnable-header-toggle-button vector-pinnable-header-unpin-button" data-event-name="pinnable-header.vector-main-menu.unpin">hide</button> </div> <div id="p-navigation" class="vector-menu mw-portlet mw-portlet-navigation" > <div class="vector-menu-heading"> Navigation </div> <div class="vector-menu-content"> <ul class="vector-menu-content-list"> <li id="n-mainpage-description" class="mw-list-item"><a href="/wiki/Main_Page" title="Visit the main page [z]" accesskey="z"><span>Main page</span></a></li><li id="n-contents" class="mw-list-item"><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Contents" title="Guides to browsing Wikipedia"><span>Contents</span></a></li><li id="n-currentevents" class="mw-list-item"><a href="/wiki/Portal:Current_events" title="Articles related to current events"><span>Current events</span></a></li><li id="n-randompage" class="mw-list-item"><a href="/wiki/Special:Random" title="Visit a randomly selected article [x]" accesskey="x"><span>Random article</span></a></li><li id="n-aboutsite" class="mw-list-item"><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:About" title="Learn about Wikipedia and how it works"><span>About Wikipedia</span></a></li><li id="n-contactpage" class="mw-list-item"><a href="//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Contact_us" title="How to contact Wikipedia"><span>Contact us</span></a></li> </ul> </div> </div> <div id="p-interaction" class="vector-menu mw-portlet mw-portlet-interaction" > <div class="vector-menu-heading"> Contribute </div> <div class="vector-menu-content"> <ul class="vector-menu-content-list"> <li id="n-help" class="mw-list-item"><a href="/wiki/Help:Contents" title="Guidance on how to use and edit Wikipedia"><span>Help</span></a></li><li id="n-introduction" class="mw-list-item"><a href="/wiki/Help:Introduction" title="Learn how to edit Wikipedia"><span>Learn to edit</span></a></li><li id="n-portal" class="mw-list-item"><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Community_portal" title="The hub for editors"><span>Community portal</span></a></li><li id="n-recentchanges" class="mw-list-item"><a href="/wiki/Special:RecentChanges" title="A list of recent changes to Wikipedia [r]" accesskey="r"><span>Recent changes</span></a></li><li id="n-upload" class="mw-list-item"><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:File_upload_wizard" title="Add images or other media for use on Wikipedia"><span>Upload file</span></a></li> </ul> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </nav> <a href="/wiki/Main_Page" class="mw-logo"> <img class="mw-logo-icon" src="/static/images/icons/wikipedia.png" alt="" aria-hidden="true" height="50" width="50"> <span class="mw-logo-container skin-invert"> <img class="mw-logo-wordmark" alt="Wikipedia" src="/static/images/mobile/copyright/wikipedia-wordmark-en.svg" style="width: 7.5em; height: 1.125em;"> <img class="mw-logo-tagline" alt="The Free Encyclopedia" src="/static/images/mobile/copyright/wikipedia-tagline-en.svg" width="117" height="13" style="width: 7.3125em; height: 0.8125em;"> </span> </a> </div> <div class="vector-header-end"> <div id="p-search" role="search" class="vector-search-box-vue vector-search-box-collapses vector-search-box-show-thumbnail vector-search-box-auto-expand-width vector-search-box"> <a href="/wiki/Special:Search" class="cdx-button cdx-button--fake-button cdx-button--fake-button--enabled cdx-button--weight-quiet cdx-button--icon-only search-toggle" title="Search Wikipedia [f]" accesskey="f"><span class="vector-icon mw-ui-icon-search mw-ui-icon-wikimedia-search"></span> <span>Search</span> </a> <div class="vector-typeahead-search-container"> <div class="cdx-typeahead-search cdx-typeahead-search--show-thumbnail cdx-typeahead-search--auto-expand-width"> <form action="/w/index.php" id="searchform" class="cdx-search-input cdx-search-input--has-end-button"> <div id="simpleSearch" class="cdx-search-input__input-wrapper" data-search-loc="header-moved"> <div class="cdx-text-input cdx-text-input--has-start-icon"> <input class="cdx-text-input__input" type="search" name="search" placeholder="Search Wikipedia" aria-label="Search Wikipedia" autocapitalize="sentences" title="Search Wikipedia [f]" accesskey="f" id="searchInput" > <span class="cdx-text-input__icon cdx-text-input__start-icon"></span> </div> <input type="hidden" name="title" value="Special:Search"> </div> <button class="cdx-button cdx-search-input__end-button">Search</button> </form> </div> </div> </div> <nav class="vector-user-links vector-user-links-wide" aria-label="Personal tools"> <div class="vector-user-links-main"> <div id="p-vector-user-menu-preferences" class="vector-menu mw-portlet emptyPortlet" > <div class="vector-menu-content"> <ul class="vector-menu-content-list"> </ul> </div> </div> <div id="p-vector-user-menu-userpage" class="vector-menu mw-portlet emptyPortlet" > <div class="vector-menu-content"> <ul class="vector-menu-content-list"> </ul> </div> </div> <nav class="vector-appearance-landmark" aria-label="Appearance"> <div id="vector-appearance-dropdown" class="vector-dropdown " title="Change the appearance of the page's font size, width, and color" > <input type="checkbox" id="vector-appearance-dropdown-checkbox" role="button" aria-haspopup="true" data-event-name="ui.dropdown-vector-appearance-dropdown" class="vector-dropdown-checkbox " aria-label="Appearance" > <label id="vector-appearance-dropdown-label" for="vector-appearance-dropdown-checkbox" class="vector-dropdown-label cdx-button cdx-button--fake-button cdx-button--fake-button--enabled cdx-button--weight-quiet cdx-button--icon-only " aria-hidden="true" ><span class="vector-icon mw-ui-icon-appearance mw-ui-icon-wikimedia-appearance"></span> <span class="vector-dropdown-label-text">Appearance</span> </label> <div class="vector-dropdown-content"> <div id="vector-appearance-unpinned-container" class="vector-unpinned-container"> </div> </div> </div> </nav> <div id="p-vector-user-menu-notifications" class="vector-menu mw-portlet emptyPortlet" > <div class="vector-menu-content"> <ul class="vector-menu-content-list"> </ul> </div> </div> <div id="p-vector-user-menu-overflow" class="vector-menu mw-portlet" > <div class="vector-menu-content"> <ul class="vector-menu-content-list"> <li id="pt-sitesupport-2" class="user-links-collapsible-item mw-list-item user-links-collapsible-item"><a data-mw="interface" href="https://donate.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:FundraiserRedirector?utm_source=donate&utm_medium=sidebar&utm_campaign=C13_en.wikipedia.org&uselang=en" class=""><span>Donate</span></a> </li> <li id="pt-createaccount-2" class="user-links-collapsible-item mw-list-item user-links-collapsible-item"><a data-mw="interface" href="/w/index.php?title=Special:CreateAccount&returnto=User+talk%3AVictor+Engel" title="You are encouraged to create an account and log in; however, it is not mandatory" class=""><span>Create account</span></a> </li> <li id="pt-login-2" class="user-links-collapsible-item mw-list-item user-links-collapsible-item"><a data-mw="interface" href="/w/index.php?title=Special:UserLogin&returnto=User+talk%3AVictor+Engel" title="You're encouraged to log in; however, it's not mandatory. [o]" accesskey="o" class=""><span>Log in</span></a> </li> </ul> </div> </div> </div> <div id="vector-user-links-dropdown" class="vector-dropdown vector-user-menu vector-button-flush-right vector-user-menu-logged-out" title="Log in and more options" > <input type="checkbox" id="vector-user-links-dropdown-checkbox" role="button" aria-haspopup="true" data-event-name="ui.dropdown-vector-user-links-dropdown" class="vector-dropdown-checkbox " aria-label="Personal tools" > <label id="vector-user-links-dropdown-label" for="vector-user-links-dropdown-checkbox" class="vector-dropdown-label cdx-button cdx-button--fake-button cdx-button--fake-button--enabled cdx-button--weight-quiet cdx-button--icon-only " aria-hidden="true" ><span class="vector-icon mw-ui-icon-ellipsis mw-ui-icon-wikimedia-ellipsis"></span> <span class="vector-dropdown-label-text">Personal tools</span> </label> <div class="vector-dropdown-content"> <div id="p-personal" class="vector-menu mw-portlet mw-portlet-personal user-links-collapsible-item" title="User menu" > <div class="vector-menu-content"> <ul class="vector-menu-content-list"> <li id="pt-sitesupport" class="user-links-collapsible-item mw-list-item"><a href="https://donate.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:FundraiserRedirector?utm_source=donate&utm_medium=sidebar&utm_campaign=C13_en.wikipedia.org&uselang=en"><span>Donate</span></a></li><li id="pt-createaccount" class="user-links-collapsible-item mw-list-item"><a href="/w/index.php?title=Special:CreateAccount&returnto=User+talk%3AVictor+Engel" title="You are encouraged to create an account and log in; however, it is not mandatory"><span class="vector-icon mw-ui-icon-userAdd mw-ui-icon-wikimedia-userAdd"></span> <span>Create account</span></a></li><li id="pt-login" class="user-links-collapsible-item mw-list-item"><a href="/w/index.php?title=Special:UserLogin&returnto=User+talk%3AVictor+Engel" title="You're encouraged to log in; however, it's not mandatory. [o]" accesskey="o"><span class="vector-icon mw-ui-icon-logIn mw-ui-icon-wikimedia-logIn"></span> <span>Log in</span></a></li> </ul> </div> </div> <div id="p-user-menu-anon-editor" class="vector-menu mw-portlet mw-portlet-user-menu-anon-editor" > <div class="vector-menu-heading"> Pages for logged out editors <a href="/wiki/Help:Introduction" aria-label="Learn more about editing"><span>learn more</span></a> </div> <div class="vector-menu-content"> <ul class="vector-menu-content-list"> <li id="pt-anoncontribs" class="mw-list-item"><a href="/wiki/Special:MyContributions" title="A list of edits made from this IP address [y]" accesskey="y"><span>Contributions</span></a></li><li id="pt-anontalk" class="mw-list-item"><a href="/wiki/Special:MyTalk" title="Discussion about edits from this IP address [n]" accesskey="n"><span>Talk</span></a></li> </ul> </div> </div> </div> </div> </nav> </div> </header> </div> <div class="mw-page-container"> <div class="mw-page-container-inner"> <div class="vector-sitenotice-container"> <div id="siteNotice"></div> </div> <div class="vector-column-start"> <div class="vector-main-menu-container"> <div id="mw-navigation"> <nav id="mw-panel" class="vector-main-menu-landmark" aria-label="Site"> <div id="vector-main-menu-pinned-container" class="vector-pinned-container"> </div> </nav> </div> </div> <div class="vector-sticky-pinned-container"> <nav id="mw-panel-toc" aria-label="Contents" data-event-name="ui.sidebar-toc" class="mw-table-of-contents-container vector-toc-landmark"> <div id="vector-toc-pinned-container" class="vector-pinned-container"> <div id="vector-toc" class="vector-toc vector-pinnable-element"> <div class="vector-pinnable-header vector-toc-pinnable-header vector-pinnable-header-pinned" data-feature-name="toc-pinned" data-pinnable-element-id="vector-toc" > <h2 class="vector-pinnable-header-label">Contents</h2> <button class="vector-pinnable-header-toggle-button vector-pinnable-header-pin-button" data-event-name="pinnable-header.vector-toc.pin">move to sidebar</button> <button class="vector-pinnable-header-toggle-button vector-pinnable-header-unpin-button" data-event-name="pinnable-header.vector-toc.unpin">hide</button> </div> <ul class="vector-toc-contents" id="mw-panel-toc-list"> <li id="toc-mw-content-text" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a href="#" class="vector-toc-link"> <div class="vector-toc-text">(Top)</div> </a> </li> <li id="toc-Belated_welcome" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1 vector-toc-list-item-expanded"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Belated_welcome"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">1</span> <span>Belated welcome</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">1 comment</span> <ul id="toc-Belated_welcome-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Belated_welcome,_and_Thanks_for_the_note_on_Fabartus" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1 vector-toc-list-item-expanded"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Belated_welcome,_and_Thanks_for_the_note_on_Fabartus"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">2</span> <span>Belated welcome, and Thanks for the note on Fabartus</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">1 comment</span> <ul id="toc-Belated_welcome,_and_Thanks_for_the_note_on_Fabartus-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Wholesale_deletion?" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1 vector-toc-list-item-expanded"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Wholesale_deletion?"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">3</span> <span>Wholesale deletion?</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">5 comments</span> <ul id="toc-Wholesale_deletion?-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Digital_Photography_edit_undone" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1 vector-toc-list-item-expanded"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Digital_Photography_edit_undone"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">4</span> <span>Digital Photography edit undone</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">3 comments</span> <ul id="toc-Digital_Photography_edit_undone-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Notification:_changes_to_"Mark_my_edits_as_minor_by_default"_preference" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1 vector-toc-list-item-expanded"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Notification:_changes_to_"Mark_my_edits_as_minor_by_default"_preference"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">5</span> <span>Notification: changes to "Mark my edits as minor by default" preference</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">1 comment</span> <ul id="toc-Notification:_changes_to_"Mark_my_edits_as_minor_by_default"_preference-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Hi" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1 vector-toc-list-item-expanded"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Hi"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">6</span> <span>Hi</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">2 comments</span> <ul id="toc-Hi-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Edit_conflict_at_Eclipse_cycle" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1 vector-toc-list-item-expanded"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Edit_conflict_at_Eclipse_cycle"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">7</span> <span>Edit conflict at Eclipse cycle</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">2 comments</span> <ul id="toc-Edit_conflict_at_Eclipse_cycle-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-The_Problem_with_the_Octaeteris" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1 vector-toc-list-item-expanded"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#The_Problem_with_the_Octaeteris"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">8</span> <span>The Problem with the Octaeteris</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">5 comments</span> <ul id="toc-The_Problem_with_the_Octaeteris-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Math_vs._Science" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1 vector-toc-list-item-expanded"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Math_vs._Science"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">9</span> <span>Math vs. Science</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">3 comments</span> <ul id="toc-Math_vs._Science-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Your_article_has_been_moved_to_AfC_space" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1 vector-toc-list-item-expanded"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Your_article_has_been_moved_to_AfC_space"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">10</span> <span>Your article has been moved to AfC space</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">1 comment</span> <ul id="toc-Your_article_has_been_moved_to_AfC_space-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Your_submission_at_Articles_for_creation" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1 vector-toc-list-item-expanded"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Your_submission_at_Articles_for_creation"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">11</span> <span>Your submission at Articles for creation</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">1 comment</span> <ul id="toc-Your_submission_at_Articles_for_creation-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Editing_interface" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1 vector-toc-list-item-expanded"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Editing_interface"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">12</span> <span>Editing interface</span> </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Editing_interface-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Zenfolio" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1 vector-toc-list-item-expanded"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Zenfolio"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">13</span> <span>Zenfolio</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">3 comments</span> <ul id="toc-Zenfolio-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Your_submission_at_Articles_for_creation_2" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1 vector-toc-list-item-expanded"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Your_submission_at_Articles_for_creation_2"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">14</span> <span>Your submission at Articles for creation</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">1 comment</span> <ul id="toc-Your_submission_at_Articles_for_creation_2-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Talkback" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1 vector-toc-list-item-expanded"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Talkback"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">15</span> <span>Talkback</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">2 comments</span> <ul id="toc-Talkback-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Speedy_deletion_nomination_of_Zenfolio" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1 vector-toc-list-item-expanded"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Speedy_deletion_nomination_of_Zenfolio"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">16</span> <span>Speedy deletion nomination of Zenfolio</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">1 comment</span> <ul id="toc-Speedy_deletion_nomination_of_Zenfolio-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Zenfolio_article_deleted?" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1 vector-toc-list-item-expanded"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Zenfolio_article_deleted?"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">17</span> <span>Zenfolio article deleted?</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">11 comments</span> <ul id="toc-Zenfolio_article_deleted?-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-ArbCom_elections_are_now_open!" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1 vector-toc-list-item-expanded"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#ArbCom_elections_are_now_open!"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">18</span> <span>ArbCom elections are now open!</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">1 comment</span> <ul id="toc-ArbCom_elections_are_now_open!-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-ArbCom_Elections_2016:_Voting_now_open!" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1 vector-toc-list-item-expanded"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#ArbCom_Elections_2016:_Voting_now_open!"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">19</span> <span>ArbCom Elections 2016: Voting now open!</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">1 comment</span> <ul id="toc-ArbCom_Elections_2016:_Voting_now_open!-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-ArbCom_Elections_2016:_Voting_now_open!_2" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1 vector-toc-list-item-expanded"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#ArbCom_Elections_2016:_Voting_now_open!_2"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">20</span> <span>ArbCom Elections 2016: Voting now open!</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">1 comment</span> <ul id="toc-ArbCom_Elections_2016:_Voting_now_open!_2-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-ArbCom_2017_election_voter_message" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1 vector-toc-list-item-expanded"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#ArbCom_2017_election_voter_message"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">21</span> <span>ArbCom 2017 election voter message</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">1 comment</span> <ul id="toc-ArbCom_2017_election_voter_message-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-ArbCom_2018_election_voter_message" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1 vector-toc-list-item-expanded"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#ArbCom_2018_election_voter_message"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">22</span> <span>ArbCom 2018 election voter message</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">1 comment</span> <ul id="toc-ArbCom_2018_election_voter_message-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-ArbCom_2024_Elections_voter_message" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1 vector-toc-list-item-expanded"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#ArbCom_2024_Elections_voter_message"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">23</span> <span>ArbCom 2024 Elections voter message</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">1 comment</span> <ul id="toc-ArbCom_2024_Elections_voter_message-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> </ul> </div> </div> </nav> </div> </div> <div class="mw-content-container"> <main id="content" class="mw-body"> <header class="mw-body-header vector-page-titlebar"> <nav aria-label="Contents" class="vector-toc-landmark"> <div id="vector-page-titlebar-toc" class="vector-dropdown vector-page-titlebar-toc vector-button-flush-left" > <input type="checkbox" id="vector-page-titlebar-toc-checkbox" role="button" aria-haspopup="true" data-event-name="ui.dropdown-vector-page-titlebar-toc" class="vector-dropdown-checkbox " aria-label="Toggle the table of contents" > <label id="vector-page-titlebar-toc-label" for="vector-page-titlebar-toc-checkbox" class="vector-dropdown-label cdx-button cdx-button--fake-button cdx-button--fake-button--enabled cdx-button--weight-quiet cdx-button--icon-only " aria-hidden="true" ><span class="vector-icon mw-ui-icon-listBullet mw-ui-icon-wikimedia-listBullet"></span> <span class="vector-dropdown-label-text">Toggle the table of contents</span> </label> <div class="vector-dropdown-content"> <div id="vector-page-titlebar-toc-unpinned-container" class="vector-unpinned-container"> </div> </div> </div> </nav> <h1 id="firstHeading" class="firstHeading mw-first-heading"><span class="mw-page-title-namespace">User talk</span><span class="mw-page-title-separator">:</span><span class="mw-page-title-main">Victor Engel</span></h1> <div id="p-lang-btn" class="vector-dropdown mw-portlet mw-portlet-lang mw-portlet-lang-icon-only" > <input type="checkbox" id="p-lang-btn-checkbox" role="button" aria-haspopup="true" data-event-name="ui.dropdown-p-lang-btn" class="vector-dropdown-checkbox mw-interlanguage-selector-empty" aria-label="This article exist only in this language. Add the article for other languages" > <label id="p-lang-btn-label" for="p-lang-btn-checkbox" class="vector-dropdown-label cdx-button cdx-button--fake-button cdx-button--fake-button--enabled cdx-button--weight-quiet cdx-button--icon-only mw-portlet-lang-heading-empty" aria-hidden="true" ><span class="vector-icon mw-ui-icon-language mw-ui-icon-wikimedia-language"></span> <span class="vector-dropdown-label-text">Add languages</span> </label> <div class="vector-dropdown-content"> <div class="mw-portlet-empty-language-selector-body"> Page contents not supported in other languages. </div> </div> </div> </header> <div class="vector-page-toolbar"> <div class="vector-page-toolbar-container"> <div id="left-navigation"> <nav aria-label="Namespaces"> <div id="p-associated-pages" class="vector-menu vector-menu-tabs mw-portlet mw-portlet-associated-pages" > <div class="vector-menu-content"> <ul class="vector-menu-content-list"> <li id="ca-nstab-user" class="new vector-tab-noicon mw-list-item"><a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Victor_Engel&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="View the user page (page does not exist) [c]" accesskey="c"><span>User page</span></a></li><li id="ca-talk" class="selected vector-tab-noicon mw-list-item"><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Victor_Engel" rel="discussion" title="Discuss improvements to the content page [t]" accesskey="t"><span>Talk</span></a></li> </ul> </div> </div> <div id="vector-variants-dropdown" class="vector-dropdown emptyPortlet" > <input type="checkbox" id="vector-variants-dropdown-checkbox" role="button" aria-haspopup="true" data-event-name="ui.dropdown-vector-variants-dropdown" class="vector-dropdown-checkbox " aria-label="Change language variant" > <label id="vector-variants-dropdown-label" for="vector-variants-dropdown-checkbox" class="vector-dropdown-label cdx-button cdx-button--fake-button cdx-button--fake-button--enabled cdx-button--weight-quiet" aria-hidden="true" ><span class="vector-dropdown-label-text">English</span> </label> <div class="vector-dropdown-content"> <div id="p-variants" class="vector-menu mw-portlet mw-portlet-variants emptyPortlet" > <div class="vector-menu-content"> <ul class="vector-menu-content-list"> </ul> </div> </div> </div> </div> </nav> </div> <div id="right-navigation" class="vector-collapsible"> <nav aria-label="Views"> <div id="p-views" class="vector-menu vector-menu-tabs mw-portlet mw-portlet-views" > <div class="vector-menu-content"> <ul class="vector-menu-content-list"> <li id="ca-view" class="selected vector-tab-noicon mw-list-item"><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Victor_Engel"><span>Read</span></a></li><li id="ca-edit" class="istalk vector-tab-noicon mw-list-item"><a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Victor_Engel&action=edit" title="Edit this page [e]" accesskey="e"><span>Edit</span></a></li><li id="ca-addsection" class="vector-tab-noicon mw-list-item"><a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Victor_Engel&action=edit&section=new" title="Start a new section [+]" accesskey="+"><span>Add topic</span></a></li><li id="ca-history" class="vector-tab-noicon mw-list-item"><a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Victor_Engel&action=history" title="Past revisions of this page [h]" accesskey="h"><span>View history</span></a></li> </ul> </div> </div> </nav> <nav class="vector-page-tools-landmark" aria-label="Page tools"> <div id="vector-page-tools-dropdown" class="vector-dropdown vector-page-tools-dropdown" > <input type="checkbox" id="vector-page-tools-dropdown-checkbox" role="button" aria-haspopup="true" data-event-name="ui.dropdown-vector-page-tools-dropdown" class="vector-dropdown-checkbox " aria-label="Tools" > <label id="vector-page-tools-dropdown-label" for="vector-page-tools-dropdown-checkbox" class="vector-dropdown-label cdx-button cdx-button--fake-button cdx-button--fake-button--enabled cdx-button--weight-quiet" aria-hidden="true" ><span class="vector-dropdown-label-text">Tools</span> </label> <div class="vector-dropdown-content"> <div id="vector-page-tools-unpinned-container" class="vector-unpinned-container"> <div id="vector-page-tools" class="vector-page-tools vector-pinnable-element"> <div class="vector-pinnable-header vector-page-tools-pinnable-header vector-pinnable-header-unpinned" data-feature-name="page-tools-pinned" data-pinnable-element-id="vector-page-tools" data-pinned-container-id="vector-page-tools-pinned-container" data-unpinned-container-id="vector-page-tools-unpinned-container" > <div class="vector-pinnable-header-label">Tools</div> <button class="vector-pinnable-header-toggle-button vector-pinnable-header-pin-button" data-event-name="pinnable-header.vector-page-tools.pin">move to sidebar</button> <button class="vector-pinnable-header-toggle-button vector-pinnable-header-unpin-button" data-event-name="pinnable-header.vector-page-tools.unpin">hide</button> </div> <div id="p-cactions" class="vector-menu mw-portlet mw-portlet-cactions emptyPortlet vector-has-collapsible-items" title="More options" > <div class="vector-menu-heading"> Actions </div> <div class="vector-menu-content"> <ul class="vector-menu-content-list"> <li id="ca-more-view" class="selected vector-more-collapsible-item mw-list-item"><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Victor_Engel"><span>Read</span></a></li><li id="ca-more-edit" class="istalk vector-more-collapsible-item mw-list-item"><a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Victor_Engel&action=edit" title="Edit this page [e]" accesskey="e"><span>Edit</span></a></li><li id="ca-more-addsection" class="vector-more-collapsible-item mw-list-item"><a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Victor_Engel&action=edit&section=new"><span>Add topic</span></a></li><li id="ca-more-history" class="vector-more-collapsible-item mw-list-item"><a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Victor_Engel&action=history"><span>View history</span></a></li> </ul> </div> </div> <div id="p-tb" class="vector-menu mw-portlet mw-portlet-tb" > <div class="vector-menu-heading"> General </div> <div class="vector-menu-content"> <ul class="vector-menu-content-list"> <li id="t-whatlinkshere" class="mw-list-item"><a href="/wiki/Special:WhatLinksHere/User_talk:Victor_Engel" title="List of all English Wikipedia pages containing links to this page [j]" accesskey="j"><span>What links here</span></a></li><li id="t-recentchangeslinked" class="mw-list-item"><a href="/wiki/Special:RecentChangesLinked/User_talk:Victor_Engel" rel="nofollow" title="Recent changes in pages linked from this page [k]" accesskey="k"><span>Related changes</span></a></li><li id="t-contributions" class="mw-list-item"><a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Victor_Engel" title="A list of contributions by this user"><span>User contributions</span></a></li><li id="t-log" class="mw-list-item"><a href="/wiki/Special:Log/Victor_Engel" title="A list of logged actions by this user"><span>User logs</span></a></li><li id="t-userrights" class="mw-list-item"><a href="/wiki/Special:UserRights/Victor_Engel"><span>View user groups</span></a></li><li id="t-upload" class="mw-list-item"><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:File_Upload_Wizard" title="Upload files [u]" accesskey="u"><span>Upload file</span></a></li><li id="t-specialpages" class="mw-list-item"><a href="/wiki/Special:SpecialPages" title="A list of all special pages [q]" accesskey="q"><span>Special pages</span></a></li><li id="t-permalink" class="mw-list-item"><a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Victor_Engel&oldid=1258257631" title="Permanent link to this revision of this page"><span>Permanent link</span></a></li><li id="t-info" class="mw-list-item"><a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Victor_Engel&action=info" title="More information about this page"><span>Page information</span></a></li><li id="t-urlshortener" class="mw-list-item"><a href="/w/index.php?title=Special:UrlShortener&url=https%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FUser_talk%3AVictor_Engel"><span>Get shortened URL</span></a></li><li id="t-urlshortener-qrcode" class="mw-list-item"><a href="/w/index.php?title=Special:QrCode&url=https%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FUser_talk%3AVictor_Engel"><span>Download QR code</span></a></li> </ul> </div> </div> <div id="p-coll-print_export" class="vector-menu mw-portlet mw-portlet-coll-print_export" > <div class="vector-menu-heading"> Print/export </div> <div class="vector-menu-content"> <ul class="vector-menu-content-list"> <li id="coll-download-as-rl" class="mw-list-item"><a href="/w/index.php?title=Special:DownloadAsPdf&page=User_talk%3AVictor_Engel&action=show-download-screen" title="Download this page as a PDF file"><span>Download as PDF</span></a></li><li id="t-print" class="mw-list-item"><a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Victor_Engel&printable=yes" title="Printable version of this page [p]" accesskey="p"><span>Printable version</span></a></li> </ul> </div> </div> <div id="p-wikibase-otherprojects" class="vector-menu mw-portlet mw-portlet-wikibase-otherprojects emptyPortlet" > <div class="vector-menu-heading"> In other projects </div> <div class="vector-menu-content"> <ul class="vector-menu-content-list"> </ul> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </nav> </div> </div> </div> <div class="vector-column-end"> <div class="vector-sticky-pinned-container"> <nav class="vector-page-tools-landmark" aria-label="Page tools"> <div id="vector-page-tools-pinned-container" class="vector-pinned-container"> </div> </nav> <nav class="vector-appearance-landmark" aria-label="Appearance"> <div id="vector-appearance-pinned-container" class="vector-pinned-container"> <div id="vector-appearance" class="vector-appearance vector-pinnable-element"> <div class="vector-pinnable-header vector-appearance-pinnable-header vector-pinnable-header-pinned" data-feature-name="appearance-pinned" data-pinnable-element-id="vector-appearance" data-pinned-container-id="vector-appearance-pinned-container" data-unpinned-container-id="vector-appearance-unpinned-container" > <div class="vector-pinnable-header-label">Appearance</div> <button class="vector-pinnable-header-toggle-button vector-pinnable-header-pin-button" data-event-name="pinnable-header.vector-appearance.pin">move to sidebar</button> <button class="vector-pinnable-header-toggle-button vector-pinnable-header-unpin-button" data-event-name="pinnable-header.vector-appearance.unpin">hide</button> </div> </div> </div> </nav> </div> </div> <div id="bodyContent" class="vector-body" aria-labelledby="firstHeading" data-mw-ve-target-container> <div class="vector-body-before-content"> <div class="mw-indicators"> </div> <div id="siteSub" class="noprint">From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia</div> </div> <div id="contentSub"><div id="mw-content-subtitle"></div></div> <div id="mw-content-text" class="mw-body-content"><div class="mw-content-ltr mw-parser-output" lang="en" dir="ltr"><meta property="mw:PageProp/toc"/> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Belated_welcome" data-mw-thread-id="h-Belated_welcome-2006-12-19T02:45:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Belated_welcome-2006-12-19T02:45:00.000Z"></span>Belated welcome<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Belated_welcome-2006-12-19T02:45:00.000Z"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Victor_Engel&action=edit&section=1" title="Edit section: Belated welcome"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Fabartus-2006-12-19T02:45:00.000Z-Belated_welcome"></span>Hello, <b>Victor Engel</b>, and <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Welcome,_newcomers" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:Welcome, newcomers">welcome</a> to Wikipedia. Thank you for <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Victor_Engel" title="Special:Contributions/Victor Engel">your contributions</a>. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. If you are stuck, and looking for help, please come to the <b><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:New_contributors%27_help_page" title="Wikipedia:New contributors' help page">New contributors' help page</a></b>, where experienced Wikipedians can answer any queries you have! Or, you can just type <b><code>{{helpme}}</code></b> and your question on your user talk page, and someone will show up shortly to answer. Here are a few good links for newcomers: </p> <ul><li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Five_pillars" title="Wikipedia:Five pillars">The Five Pillars of Wikipedia</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:How_to_edit_a_page" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:How to edit a page">How to edit a page</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Tutorial" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:Tutorial">Editing tutorial</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Picture_tutorial" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:Picture tutorial">Picture tutorial</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:How_to_write_a_great_article" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:How to write a great article">How to write a great article</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Naming_conventions" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:Naming conventions">Naming conventions</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style" title="Wikipedia:Manual of Style">Manual of Style</a></li></ul> <p>I hope you enjoy editing here and being a <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedians" title="Wikipedia:Wikipedians">Wikipedian</a>! By the way, you can sign your name on talk and vote pages using four tildes, like this: ~~~~. If you have any questions, see the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Help" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:Help">help pages</a>, add a question to the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Village_pump" title="Wikipedia:Village pump">village pump</a> or ask me on my talk page. Again, welcome! // <b><a href="/wiki/User:Fabartus" title="User:Fabartus">Fra</a></b><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Fabartus" title="User talk:Fabartus"><span style="color:green;">nkB</span></a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Victor_Engel#c-Fabartus-2006-12-19T02:45:00.000Z-Belated_welcome" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:45, 19 December 2006 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Fabartus-2006-12-19T02:45:00.000Z-Belated_welcome"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Fabartus-2006-12-19T02:45:00.000Z-Belated_welcome"></span> </p><p>"Full moon cycle" or "moon cycle" would be good names. But "fumocy" is not (yet at least) a widely-accepted term for this; thus it cannot be used as an article title or linked to (but it could be mentioned as a proposed name of the concept). The article was not deleted; It's right <a href="/wiki/User:Tom_Peters/Fumocy" title="User:Tom Peters/Fumocy">here</a>. Just use the "move page" feature. --<a href="/wiki/User:Maveric149" class="mw-redirect" title="User:Maveric149">mav</a> 20:06, 15 Aug 2003 (UTC) </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Belated_welcome,_and_Thanks_for_the_note_on_Fabartus" data-mw-thread-id="h-Belated_welcome,_and_Thanks_for_the_note_on_Fabartus-2006-12-19T02:44:00.000Z"><span id="Belated_welcome.2C_and_Thanks_for_the_note_on_Fabartus"></span><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Belated_welcome,_and_Thanks_for_the_note_on_Fabartus-2006-12-19T02:44:00.000Z"></span>Belated welcome, and Thanks for the note on <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Fabartus" title="User talk:Fabartus">Fabartus</a><span data-mw-comment-end="h-Belated_welcome,_and_Thanks_for_the_note_on_Fabartus-2006-12-19T02:44:00.000Z"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Victor_Engel&action=edit&section=2" title="Edit section: Belated welcome, and Thanks for the note on Fabartus"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Fabartus-2006-12-19T02:44:00.000Z-Belated_welcome,_and_Thanks_for_the_note_on_Fabartus"></span>Typos and misspellings are a likely thing. You probably shouldn't make a practice of throwing minor mistakes like that in peoples faces, just fix them.</dd></dl> <ul><li>Not sure what <b>plain dates</b> I obscured,</li></ul> <dl><dd><dl><dd>Since this is my own talk page (thanks for setting it up), I'll experiment here with editing. I know there's a sandbox -- I just haven't played in it enough. The dates I was referring to were, e.g., changing "2000-01-01 00:00:00" to "two thousandths (2000 <a href="/wiki/AD" class="mw-redirect" title="AD">AD</a>) very first second". Was that supposed to be easier to understand? It actually took me several readings before I understood what you were trying to do.</dd></dl></dd></dl> <dl><dd>so far as I can see on a re-read, as intended, I introduced the concept of Terrestrial time, which was only linked as an abbreviation,</dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd>It seems to me being linked as an abbreviation is sufficient. If you're not familiar with the concept, simply follow the link, conveniently located at the appropriate spot, and read up. That's the whole beauty of hypertext.</dd></dl></dd></dl> <dl><dd><br/><br/><span class="nowrap"> </span>Moreover, like the little fixup I did, the paragraph needs to be carefully worded to introduce terms, <u>then</u> use them,</dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd>Doesn't hypertext do that automatically? It seems to me that it's possible to define terms to excess. If the intended publication were print, I might have a different opinion, but wikipedia is intended for browser use, as far as I know.</dd></dl></dd></dl> <dl><dd>Sorry if you thought I in any way thought of that as a completed edit for that section.</dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd>I didn't think of it as a completed edit. I did, however, think you thought it an improvement, else why do the edit at all. I thought the article was much harder to read after the edit than before. I would have reverted it, had I known how to do so.</dd></dl></dd></dl> <dl><dd>Refer to the Village Pump (Policy) for other thoughts. <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:VPP" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:VPP">WP:VPP</a> <br/><br/><span class="nowrap"> </span>I did (for me) much worse 'damage' on <a href="/wiki/Full_Moon" class="mw-redirect" title="Full Moon">Full Moon</a>, as like the paragraph I suggested needed written more carefully, I found the whole section was poorly self-integrated for the lay person. In general, I'd extend that comment to the next section on both articles. In any event, I abhor 'IN-YOUR-FACE' templates as a rule, but when time (or knowledge) limitations press in this <a href="/wiki/Leisure" title="Leisure">volunteer service</a>, I will (regretfully) occasionally resort to such.</dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd>Fortunately for you, perhaps, I'm not sure what you mean by 'IN-YOUR-FACE' templates, but I can guess.</dd></dl></dd></dl> <dl><dd>Basically, the two articles should share the same text so far as I'm concerned,</dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd>As far as that goes, "full moon cycle" would be equivalent to "new moon cycle". Well, at least they have the same period. The details of the variation would differ. For example, the maximum interval between new moons is not the same as the maximum interval between full moons even though their mean intervals are the same.</dd></dl></dd></dl> <dl><dd>as I commented plainly on <a href="/wiki/Talk:Full_moon" title="Talk:Full moon">Talk:Full moon</a>. Note I also stated a three-point set of deficiencies, but also that only the third was 'Real important', the other two are matters of taste.<br/><br/><span class="nowrap"> </span>Now being a new editor, note that it's preferable to do a complete edit, but if you can't, it's important to state what you percieve is wrong, and if possible (like points 1 & 2) suggest what may be a corrective measure. People edit in an area to which they tend to specialize. Most articles are patrolled or watched by people making a contribution on them, but that doesn't mean a wandering editor has no place or valid view point. Some matters, especially technical ones like this can benefit from a view from another's shoes. The idea is to work together, and minimize friction (See <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:CIV" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:CIV">WP:CIV</a>), not expect everyone to be perfect everytime. It is part of our culture that any non-user page is subject to being <b>edited mercilessly</b>. So edit out my misspelling, don't bitch about it.</dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd>I was at work at the time and didn't have the time. My decision to contact you directly was to point out something that I perceived was a sloppy edit by you that you may have been unaware of. I tried contacting you in as private a way as I could identify. Consider my comment to you to have been terse, but not rude, please.</dd></dl></dd></dl> <dl><dd>If you have the time to work on the article flow and present the dates, do so. No one owns any article on wp, and the troubles follow if and only if one begins to feel possessive of them. In the meantime, I'll leave you a welcome message above, which has some useful links. Best regards // <b><a href="/wiki/User:Fabartus" title="User:Fabartus">Fra</a></b><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Fabartus" title="User talk:Fabartus"><span style="color:green;">nkB</span></a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Victor_Engel#c-Fabartus-2006-12-19T02:44:00.000Z-Belated_welcome,_and_Thanks_for_the_note_on_Fabartus" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:44, 19 December 2006 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Fabartus-2006-12-19T02:44:00.000Z-Belated_welcome,_and_Thanks_for_the_note_on_Fabartus"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Fabartus-2006-12-19T02:44:00.000Z-Belated_welcome,_and_Thanks_for_the_note_on_Fabartus"></span></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd>Thanks for the welcome message. I will use it.</dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Wholesale_deletion?" data-mw-thread-id="h-Wholesale_deletion?-2006-12-26T19:39:00.000Z"><span id="Wholesale_deletion.3F"></span><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Wholesale_deletion?-2006-12-26T19:39:00.000Z"></span>Wholesale deletion?<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Wholesale_deletion?-2006-12-26T19:39:00.000Z"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Victor_Engel&action=edit&section=3" title="Edit section: Wholesale deletion?"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Robert_A_West-2006-12-26T20:23:00.000Z-Wholesale_deletion?"></span>You added comments to <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Village%20pump%20%28policy%29&oldid=96669826#self-appointed_gatekeepers_">Wikipedia:Village pump (policy)#self-appointed gatekeepers </a> with the edit comment, "Restoring wholesale deletion of my comment." I looked at the history/diffs, and it does not look like your remarks were previously added, so I am puzzled what you mean by "Wholesale deletion." <a href="/wiki/User:Robert_A_West" title="User:Robert A West">Robert A.West</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Robert_A_West" title="User talk:Robert A West">Talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Victor_Engel#c-Robert_A_West-2006-12-26T20:23:00.000Z-Wholesale_deletion?" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:23, 26 December 2006 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Robert_A_West-2006-12-26T20:23:00.000Z-Wholesale_deletion?"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Robert_A_West-2006-12-26T20:23:00.000Z-Wholesale_deletion?"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Victor_Engel-2006-12-26T22:10:00.000Z-Robert_A_West-2006-12-26T20:23:00.000Z"></span>I am puzzled, too. I only added that remark after I verified that my change was edited out (by the change currently after it). It appeared both in the current view and the history view. Like you, I now can see no evidence of my ever having made such a change. Have I accidentally run into a wiki bug? What happens if two people make an edit to the same page at the same time, by the way? <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Victor_Engel&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Victor Engel (page does not exist)">Victor Engel</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Victor_Engel#c-Victor_Engel-2006-12-26T22:10:00.000Z-Robert_A_West-2006-12-26T20:23:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:10, 26 December 2006 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Victor_Engel-2006-12-26T22:10:00.000Z-Robert_A_West-2006-12-26T20:23:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Victor_Engel-2006-12-26T22:10:00.000Z-Robert_A_West-2006-12-26T20:23:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Robert_A_West-2006-12-26T22:21:00.000Z-Victor_Engel-2006-12-26T22:10:00.000Z"></span>If both editors make identical edits (as in two reverts of the same vandalism), one will be ignored; otherwise, the second one to save should get an <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Edit_conflict" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:Edit conflict">edit conflict</a> page, which that editor has to resolve manually. My edit (immediately following yours in space, but preceding it in time) was an edit conflict, and I thought that perhaps I had inadvertantly wiped out your edit in resolving the conflict. When I saw that it wasn't so, I looked further. I have seen odd things happen when there are multiple edit conflicts on a page -- perhaps that is what happened in this instance. <a href="/wiki/User:Robert_A_West" title="User:Robert A West">Robert A.West</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Robert_A_West" title="User talk:Robert A West">Talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Victor_Engel#c-Robert_A_West-2006-12-26T22:21:00.000Z-Victor_Engel-2006-12-26T22:10:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:21, 26 December 2006 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Robert_A_West-2006-12-26T22:21:00.000Z-Victor_Engel-2006-12-26T22:10:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Robert_A_West-2006-12-26T22:21:00.000Z-Victor_Engel-2006-12-26T22:10:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Victor_Engel-2006-12-26T23:55:00.000Z-Robert_A_West-2006-12-26T22:21:00.000Z"></span>Perhaps. In any case, I wasn't particularly worried about it. In the worst case scenario, it would have been an illustration for the subject the commentary was about. For what it's worth, I thought you said much more eloquently essentially what I was trying to say. Perhaps I shouldn't have said "Wholesale deletion". That was out of frustration with having lost the changes I'd just made. <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Victor_Engel&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Victor Engel (page does not exist)">Victor Engel</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Victor_Engel#c-Victor_Engel-2006-12-26T23:55:00.000Z-Robert_A_West-2006-12-26T22:21:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:55, 26 December 2006 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Victor_Engel-2006-12-26T23:55:00.000Z-Robert_A_West-2006-12-26T22:21:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Victor_Engel-2006-12-26T23:55:00.000Z-Robert_A_West-2006-12-26T22:21:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Robert_A_West-2006-12-26T19:39:00.000Z-Robert_A_West-2006-12-26T22:21:00.000Z"></span>There seems to have been an additional problem. Your comment, "Yes, there are some articles that are infested by POV-warriors who keep down reasonable edits, but they are outnumbered by the articles that are guarded by knowledgable, responsible editors. <a href="/wiki/User:Robert_A_West" title="User:Robert A West">Robert A.West</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Robert_A_West" title="User talk:Robert A West">Talk</a>) 19:39, 26 December 2006 (UTC)" does not appear in the current version. I did not delete it. In fact, I want to pains to ensure it remained, since it was not my comment, and it included your sig. I thought I'd better post this, so you knew there was no intention on my part to delete it. <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Victor_Engel&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Victor Engel (page does not exist)">Victor Engel</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Victor_Engel#c-Robert_A_West-2006-12-26T19:39:00.000Z-Robert_A_West-2006-12-26T22:21:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:33, 27 December 2006 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Robert_A_West-2006-12-26T19:39:00.000Z-Robert_A_West-2006-12-26T22:21:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Robert_A_West-2006-12-26T19:39:00.000Z-Robert_A_West-2006-12-26T22:21:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <p><br/> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Digital_Photography_edit_undone" data-mw-thread-id="h-Digital_Photography_edit_undone-2007-01-08T01:06:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Digital_Photography_edit_undone-2007-01-08T01:06:00.000Z"></span>Digital Photography edit undone<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Digital_Photography_edit_undone-2007-01-08T01:06:00.000Z"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Victor_Engel&action=edit&section=4" title="Edit section: Digital Photography edit undone"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Victor_Engel-2007-01-08T01:06:00.000Z-Digital_Photography_edit_undone"></span>I undid your edit to the digital photography article. I don't think the edit substantially improved the article. Furthermore, the illustration was an animated GIF. GIF images are not appropriate for photographs because of quantization issues. I realize GIF was used to do get the animation to work. However, animations are also annoying to many people, and I think in this context having two separate pictures side-by-side would be more appropriate. The animation would be completely lost to anyone reading through quickly, having a browser with animation turned off, or for a printed version of the article. <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Victor_Engel&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Victor Engel (page does not exist)">Victor Engel</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Victor_Engel#c-Victor_Engel-2007-01-08T01:06:00.000Z-Digital_Photography_edit_undone" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:06, 8 January 2007 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Victor_Engel-2007-01-08T01:06:00.000Z-Digital_Photography_edit_undone"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Victor_Engel-2007-01-08T01:06:00.000Z-Digital_Photography_edit_undone"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Mactographer-2007-01-08T03:53:00.000Z-Victor_Engel-2007-01-08T01:06:00.000Z"></span>Thank you for your memo. Most editors don't bother to do such. And I understand the various arguments against animated gifs, but I've seen it used in many other articles here on Wikipedia.</dd></dl> <dl><dd><a class="external free" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Jupiter_Great_Red_Spot_Animation.gif">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Jupiter_Great_Red_Spot_Animation.gif</a><br/></dd> <dd><a class="external free" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Rivertree_thirds_md.gif">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Rivertree_thirds_md.gif</a><br/></dd> <dd><a class="external free" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:AnimECHECS-Le-coup-du-Berger3.gif">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:AnimECHECS-Le-coup-du-Berger3.gif</a><br/></dd></dl> <dl><dd>I also believe the very nature of animated web media lends itself to more advantages than disadvantages. We are using browsers on electronic machines, not pen an paper or books to view the web, thus the media is different. I also think seeing the dramatic differences in such an image has more impact than doing a side by side comparison as you suggested. Someone can look at the various areas of the image and see exactly where the changes were made with an animation. This is much more difficult and less noticeable with a side by side illustration. To completely disregard the benefits of web media for the sake of deferring to "old" media is, in my opinion, to try to grandfather the need for buggy whips when the automobile has clearly made the need for buggies obsolete.</dd></dl> <dl><dd>Thus in this case, I default to the Wiki <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Ignore_all_rules" title="Wikipedia:Ignore all rules">no firm rules</a> policy.</dd></dl> <dl><dd>--<a href="/wiki/User:Mactographer" title="User:Mactographer">Mactographer</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Victor_Engel#c-Mactographer-2007-01-08T03:53:00.000Z-Victor_Engel-2007-01-08T01:06:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">03:53, 8 January 2007 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Mactographer-2007-01-08T03:53:00.000Z-Victor_Engel-2007-01-08T01:06:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Mactographer-2007-01-08T03:53:00.000Z-Victor_Engel-2007-01-08T01:06:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Victor_Engel-2007-01-08T05:58:00.000Z-Mactographer-2007-01-08T03:53:00.000Z"></span>In this instance, I think a mouseover action would be far more effective. I have no idea how to do that on wikipedia, however. By the way, I think the animation of the River tree thirds also suffers the same problem as the image I removed. However, in the case of the Digital photography article, in addition, the accompanying text didn't improve the article. <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Victor_Engel&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Victor Engel (page does not exist)">Victor Engel</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Victor_Engel#c-Victor_Engel-2007-01-08T05:58:00.000Z-Mactographer-2007-01-08T03:53:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">05:58, 8 January 2007 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Victor_Engel-2007-01-08T05:58:00.000Z-Mactographer-2007-01-08T03:53:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Victor_Engel-2007-01-08T05:58:00.000Z-Mactographer-2007-01-08T03:53:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Notification:_changes_to_"Mark_my_edits_as_minor_by_default"_preference" data-mw-thread-id="h-Notification:_changes_to_"Mark_my_edits_as_minor_by_default"_preference-2011-03-14T21:19:00.000Z"><span id="Notification:_changes_to_.22Mark_my_edits_as_minor_by_default.22_preference"></span><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Notification:_changes_to_"Mark_my_edits_as_minor_by_default"_preference-2011-03-14T21:19:00.000Z"></span>Notification: changes to "Mark my edits as minor by default" preference<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Notification:_changes_to_"Mark_my_edits_as_minor_by_default"_preference-2011-03-14T21:19:00.000Z"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Victor_Engel&action=edit&section=5" title="Edit section: Notification: changes to "Mark my edits as minor by default" preference"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-LivingBot-2011-03-14T21:19:00.000Z-Notification:_changes_to_"Mark_my_edits_as_minor_by_default"_preference"></span>Hello there. This is an automated message to tell you about the gradual phasing out of the preference entitled "Mark all edits minor by default", which you currently have (or very recently had) enabled. </p><p>On 13 March 2011, this preference was hidden from the user preferences screen as part of efforts to prevent its accidental misuse (<a href="/wiki/Help_talk:Minor_edit#Should_we_remove_the_Preference_setting_to_.22Mark_all_edits_minor_by_default.22_.3F" title="Help talk:Minor edit">consensus discussion</a>). This had the effect of locking users in to their existing preference, which, in your case, was <code>true</code>. To complete the process, your preference will automatically be changed to <code>false</code> in the next few days. This does <i>not</i> require any intervention on your part and you will still be able to manually mark your edits as being 'minor'. The only thing that's changed is that you will no longer have them marked as minor by default. </p><p>For established users such as yourself there is a workaround available involving custom JavaScript. If you are familiar with the contents of <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:MINOR" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:MINOR">WP:MINOR</a>, and believe that it is still beneficial to the encyclopedia to have all your edits marked as such by default, then <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Village_pump_(technical)/Archive_78#Preference_to_mark_all_edits_minor_by_default_asked_to_be_removed_in_bugzilla:24313" title="Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)/Archive 78">this discussion</a> will give you the details you need to continue with this functionality indefinitely. If you have any problems, feel free to drop me a note. </p><p>Thank you for your understanding and happy editing :) Editing on behalf of <a href="/wiki/User:Jarry1250" title="User:Jarry1250">User:Jarry1250</a>, <a href="/wiki/User:LivingBot" title="User:LivingBot">LivingBot</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:LivingBot" class="mw-redirect" title="User talk:LivingBot">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Victor_Engel#c-LivingBot-2011-03-14T21:19:00.000Z-Notification:_changes_to_"Mark_my_edits_as_minor_by_default"_preference" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:19, 14 March 2011 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-LivingBot-2011-03-14T21:19:00.000Z-Notification:_changes_to_"Mark_my_edits_as_minor_by_default"_preference"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-LivingBot-2011-03-14T21:19:00.000Z-Notification:_changes_to_"Mark_my_edits_as_minor_by_default"_preference"></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Hi" data-mw-thread-id="h-Hi-2011-04-07T04:18:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Hi-2011-04-07T04:18:00.000Z"></span>Hi<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Hi-2011-04-07T04:18:00.000Z"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Victor_Engel&action=edit&section=6" title="Edit section: Hi"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Mfield-2011-04-07T04:18:00.000Z-Hi"></span>Hey Victor Just noticed your post on a page i was editing about <a href="/wiki/Air_France_Flight_447" title="Air France Flight 447">AF447</a> and am guessing you must be the same name i recognize from dpreview. Small worlds and all that. Matthew Field. <a href="/wiki/User:Mfield" title="User:Mfield">Mfield</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Mfield" title="User talk:Mfield">Oi!</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Victor_Engel#c-Mfield-2011-04-07T04:18:00.000Z-Hi" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">04:18, 7 April 2011 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Mfield-2011-04-07T04:18:00.000Z-Hi"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Mfield-2011-04-07T04:18:00.000Z-Hi"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Victor_Engel-2011-04-07T15:37:00.000Z-Mfield-2011-04-07T04:18:00.000Z"></span>There are others with my name, but you are correct. <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Victor_Engel&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Victor Engel (page does not exist)">Victor Engel</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Victor_Engel#c-Victor_Engel-2011-04-07T15:37:00.000Z-Mfield-2011-04-07T04:18:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:37, 7 April 2011 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Victor_Engel-2011-04-07T15:37:00.000Z-Mfield-2011-04-07T04:18:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Victor_Engel-2011-04-07T15:37:00.000Z-Mfield-2011-04-07T04:18:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Edit_conflict_at_Eclipse_cycle" data-mw-thread-id="h-Edit_conflict_at_Eclipse_cycle-2011-06-20T22:08:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Edit_conflict_at_Eclipse_cycle-2011-06-20T22:08:00.000Z"></span>Edit conflict at <a href="/wiki/Eclipse_cycle" title="Eclipse cycle">Eclipse cycle</a><span data-mw-comment-end="h-Edit_conflict_at_Eclipse_cycle-2011-06-20T22:08:00.000Z"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Victor_Engel&action=edit&section=7" title="Edit section: Edit conflict at Eclipse cycle"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Timl2k4-2011-06-20T22:08:00.000Z-Edit_conflict_at_Eclipse_cycle"></span>Just wanted to let you know we were both editing <a href="/wiki/Eclipse_cycle" title="Eclipse cycle">Eclipse cycle</a> simultaneously. I was lazy and overwrote your edits but they have been restored. Thanks. --<a href="/wiki/User:Timl2k4" class="mw-redirect" title="User:Timl2k4">TimL</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Timl2k4" class="mw-redirect" title="User talk:Timl2k4">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Victor_Engel#c-Timl2k4-2011-06-20T22:08:00.000Z-Edit_conflict_at_Eclipse_cycle" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:08, 20 June 2011 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Timl2k4-2011-06-20T22:08:00.000Z-Edit_conflict_at_Eclipse_cycle"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Timl2k4-2011-06-20T22:08:00.000Z-Edit_conflict_at_Eclipse_cycle"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Victor_Engel-2011-06-21T19:53:00.000Z-Timl2k4-2011-06-20T22:08:00.000Z"></span>Thanks for letting me know. <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Victor_Engel&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Victor Engel (page does not exist)">Victor Engel</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Victor_Engel#c-Victor_Engel-2011-06-21T19:53:00.000Z-Timl2k4-2011-06-20T22:08:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:53, 21 June 2011 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Victor_Engel-2011-06-21T19:53:00.000Z-Timl2k4-2011-06-20T22:08:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Victor_Engel-2011-06-21T19:53:00.000Z-Timl2k4-2011-06-20T22:08:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="The_Problem_with_the_Octaeteris" data-mw-thread-id="h-The_Problem_with_the_Octaeteris-2011-07-22T22:03:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-The_Problem_with_the_Octaeteris-2011-07-22T22:03:00.000Z"></span>The Problem with the Octaeteris<span data-mw-comment-end="h-The_Problem_with_the_Octaeteris-2011-07-22T22:03:00.000Z"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Victor_Engel&action=edit&section=8" title="Edit section: The Problem with the Octaeteris"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Timl2k4-2011-07-22T22:03:00.000Z-The_Problem_with_the_Octaeteris"></span>It has 8.434 eclipse years. Would that not make it fail as an eclipse cycle? I could see the possibility of an eclipse occurring on Octaeteris after another, but than that's it, no more. So the significance seems to be this, based on your data, after an eclipse there is a 65% chance of another eclipse (lunar instead of solar and vice versa) occurring exactly <a href="/wiki/Octaeteris" title="Octaeteris">8 years, 1 day later</a>. That does not seem to me to qualify as an eclipse cycle. A predictor? Yes. A reliable one? No. At least a fortnight guarantees an eclipse 100% of the time. :) Do you think it's still significant enough to maybe add it as a note in the article? --<a href="/wiki/User:Timl2k4" class="mw-redirect" title="User:Timl2k4">TimL</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Timl2k4" class="mw-redirect" title="User talk:Timl2k4">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Victor_Engel#c-Timl2k4-2011-07-22T22:03:00.000Z-The_Problem_with_the_Octaeteris" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:03, 22 July 2011 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Timl2k4-2011-07-22T22:03:00.000Z-The_Problem_with_the_Octaeteris"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Timl2k4-2011-07-22T22:03:00.000Z-The_Problem_with_the_Octaeteris"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Victor_Engel-2011-07-22T22:47:00.000Z-Timl2k4-2011-07-22T22:03:00.000Z"></span>Actually, what I said was that an eclipse has a 65% chance of being preceded OR followed by another eclipse. That chance that an eclipse is followed by another eclipse one octaeteris later is about half that. I don't know if it's significant to re-add or not. I'll leave that up to more knowledgeable folks. <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Victor_Engel&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Victor Engel (page does not exist)">Victor Engel</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Victor_Engel#c-Victor_Engel-2011-07-22T22:47:00.000Z-Timl2k4-2011-07-22T22:03:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:47, 22 July 2011 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Victor_Engel-2011-07-22T22:47:00.000Z-Timl2k4-2011-07-22T22:03:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Victor_Engel-2011-07-22T22:47:00.000Z-Timl2k4-2011-07-22T22:03:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Timl2k4-2011-07-22T22:57:00.000Z-Victor_Engel-2011-07-22T22:47:00.000Z"></span>OK. That makes more sense to me, given the deviation from the half-integer eclipse year. So there is a 33% chance that an eclipse would be followed by <strike> an eclipse of opposite type </strike> another eclipse. I think that's pretty much the nail in the coffin. Do you mind if I add a summary of our discussions to the eclipse cycle talk page? Thanks. --<a href="/wiki/User:Timl2k4" class="mw-redirect" title="User:Timl2k4">TimL</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Timl2k4" class="mw-redirect" title="User talk:Timl2k4">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Victor_Engel#c-Timl2k4-2011-07-22T22:57:00.000Z-Victor_Engel-2011-07-22T22:47:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:57, 22 July 2011 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Timl2k4-2011-07-22T22:57:00.000Z-Victor_Engel-2011-07-22T22:47:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Timl2k4-2011-07-22T22:57:00.000Z-Victor_Engel-2011-07-22T22:47:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Victor_Engel-2011-07-22T23:13:00.000Z-Timl2k4-2011-07-22T22:57:00.000Z"></span>Go ahead. P.S. How many occurrences are there in a fortnight cycle?<a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Victor_Engel&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Victor Engel (page does not exist)">Victor Engel</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Victor_Engel#c-Victor_Engel-2011-07-22T23:13:00.000Z-Timl2k4-2011-07-22T22:57:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:13, 22 July 2011 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Victor_Engel-2011-07-22T23:13:00.000Z-Timl2k4-2011-07-22T22:57:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Victor_Engel-2011-07-22T23:13:00.000Z-Timl2k4-2011-07-22T22:57:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Timl2k4-2011-07-22T23:20:00.000Z-Victor_Engel-2011-07-22T23:13:00.000Z"></span>2 or 3. Just part of the (shameless plug) <a href="/wiki/Eclipse_season" title="Eclipse season">eclipse season</a>. Love any feedback you might give me on that article. --<a href="/wiki/User:Timl2k4" class="mw-redirect" title="User:Timl2k4">TimL</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Timl2k4" class="mw-redirect" title="User talk:Timl2k4">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Victor_Engel#c-Timl2k4-2011-07-22T23:20:00.000Z-Victor_Engel-2011-07-22T23:13:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:20, 22 July 2011 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Timl2k4-2011-07-22T23:20:00.000Z-Victor_Engel-2011-07-22T23:13:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Timl2k4-2011-07-22T23:20:00.000Z-Victor_Engel-2011-07-22T23:13:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Math_vs._Science" data-mw-thread-id="h-Math_vs._Science-2011-07-26T18:57:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Math_vs._Science-2011-07-26T18:57:00.000Z"></span>Math vs. Science<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Math_vs._Science-2011-07-26T18:57:00.000Z"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Victor_Engel&action=edit&section=9" title="Edit section: Math vs. Science"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Victor_Engel-2011-07-26T18:57:00.000Z-Math_vs._Science"></span><style data-mw-deduplicate="TemplateStyles:r1235781174">.mw-parser-output .hmbox-outer{margin-left:1em}.mw-parser-output .hmbox-inner{display:inline-block;color:var(--color-base,#202122);border:1px solid var(--border-color-base,#a2a9b1);background-color:var(--background-color-interactive-subtle,#f8f9fa);margin-right:0.5em;padding:0.3em 0.5em}</style><div role="note" class="hmbox-outer unresolved"><div class="hmbox-inner"><span typeof="mw:File"><span><img alt="" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/ea/Purple_arrow_down.svg/20px-Purple_arrow_down.svg.png" decoding="async" width="20" height="20" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/ea/Purple_arrow_down.svg/30px-Purple_arrow_down.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/ea/Purple_arrow_down.svg/40px-Purple_arrow_down.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="250" data-file-height="250"/></span></span> Moved from <a href="/wiki/Talk:Eclipse_cycle" title="Talk:Eclipse cycle">Talk:Eclipse cycle</a></div></div> <p>Interesting. It almost seems like an oxymoron to be a science natural and hate math. In my mind, the two are inseparable. <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Victor_Engel&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Victor Engel (page does not exist)">Victor Engel</a> (<a class="mw-selflink selflink">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Victor_Engel#c-Victor_Engel-2011-07-26T18:57:00.000Z-Math_vs._Science" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:57, 26 July 2011 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Victor_Engel-2011-07-26T18:57:00.000Z-Math_vs._Science"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Victor_Engel-2011-07-26T18:57:00.000Z-Math_vs._Science"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Timl2k4-2011-07-26T19:32:00.000Z-Victor_Engel-2011-07-26T18:57:00.000Z"></span>Interesting! I think totally the opposite, the two overlap but I don't think understanding math is necessary to understanding science. Yes, they are very complimentary, if I wanted to do a my own science experiment I'm going to possibly need to polish up my math skills, but there are so many scientific concepts that require little to no math skill at all, but it helps (I sometimes wonder if opponents to evolution are merely incapable of imagining large numbers, like 4 billion years). In my case I was tested by a professional for various aptitudes, I'm relatively weak in math and <i>very</i> strong in science as well as verbal. Same with ACT and SAT tests, relatively weak in math very strong in science and verbal. So math is my "weakest link", the hardest thing (relatively again) for my brain to do, although their are other aspects my mind is weaker at still that fall under the concept of <a href="/wiki/Emotional_intelligence" title="Emotional intelligence">EQ</a>. --<a href="/wiki/User:Timl2k4" class="mw-redirect" title="User:Timl2k4">TimL</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Timl2k4" class="mw-redirect" title="User talk:Timl2k4">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Victor_Engel#c-Timl2k4-2011-07-26T19:32:00.000Z-Victor_Engel-2011-07-26T18:57:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:32, 26 July 2011 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Timl2k4-2011-07-26T19:32:00.000Z-Victor_Engel-2011-07-26T18:57:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Timl2k4-2011-07-26T19:32:00.000Z-Victor_Engel-2011-07-26T18:57:00.000Z"></span></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Timl2k4-2011-07-26T20:58:00.000Z-Victor_Engel-2011-07-26T18:57:00.000Z"></span>E.g. I can draw you an illustration that shows why the number of solar eclipses and lunar eclipses <b>must</b> be roughly equal, no math involved. I'm cheating though because the illustration relies on basic geometry. :) --<a href="/wiki/User:Timl2k4" class="mw-redirect" title="User:Timl2k4">TimL</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Timl2k4" class="mw-redirect" title="User talk:Timl2k4">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Victor_Engel#c-Timl2k4-2011-07-26T20:58:00.000Z-Victor_Engel-2011-07-26T18:57:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:58, 26 July 2011 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Timl2k4-2011-07-26T20:58:00.000Z-Victor_Engel-2011-07-26T18:57:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Timl2k4-2011-07-26T20:58:00.000Z-Victor_Engel-2011-07-26T18:57:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Your_article_has_been_moved_to_AfC_space" data-mw-thread-id="h-Your_article_has_been_moved_to_AfC_space-2012-03-08T21:32:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Your_article_has_been_moved_to_AfC_space-2012-03-08T21:32:00.000Z"></span>Your article has been moved to AfC space<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Your_article_has_been_moved_to_AfC_space-2012-03-08T21:32:00.000Z"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Victor_Engel&action=edit&section=10" title="Edit section: Your article has been moved to AfC space"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-ArticlesForCreationBot-2012-03-08T21:32:00.000Z-Your_article_has_been_moved_to_AfC_space"></span>Hi! I would like to inform you that the Articles for Creation submission which was previously located here: <a href="/wiki/User:Victor_Engel/Zenfolio" title="User:Victor Engel/Zenfolio">User:Victor Engel/Zenfolio</a> has been moved to <a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia_talk:Articles_for_creation/Zenfolio&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Wikipedia talk:Articles for creation/Zenfolio (page does not exist)">Wikipedia talk:Articles for creation/Zenfolio</a>, this move was made automatically and doesn't affect your article, if you have any questions please ask on my talk page! Have a nice day. <a href="/wiki/User:ArticlesForCreationBot" title="User:ArticlesForCreationBot">ArticlesForCreationBot</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:ArticlesForCreationBot" title="User talk:ArticlesForCreationBot">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Victor_Engel#c-ArticlesForCreationBot-2012-03-08T21:32:00.000Z-Your_article_has_been_moved_to_AfC_space" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:32, 8 March 2012 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-ArticlesForCreationBot-2012-03-08T21:32:00.000Z-Your_article_has_been_moved_to_AfC_space"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-ArticlesForCreationBot-2012-03-08T21:32:00.000Z-Your_article_has_been_moved_to_AfC_space"></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Your_submission_at_Articles_for_creation" data-mw-thread-id="h-Your_submission_at_Articles_for_creation-2012-03-10T14:00:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Your_submission_at_Articles_for_creation-2012-03-10T14:00:00.000Z"></span>Your submission at <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:AFC" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:AFC">Articles for creation</a><span data-mw-comment-end="h-Your_submission_at_Articles_for_creation-2012-03-10T14:00:00.000Z"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Victor_Engel&action=edit&section=11" title="Edit section: Your submission at Articles for creation"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <div style="border:solid 1px #9accf6;background:#f1f9ff;padding:1em;padding-top:0.5em;padding-bottom:0.5em;width:20em;color:black;margin-bottom: 1.5em;margin-left: 1.5em;width: 90%;"> <span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Happysailor-2012-03-10T14:00:00.000Z-Your_submission_at_Articles_for_creation"></span><figure class="mw-halign-left" typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:AFC-Logo_Decline.svg" class="mw-file-description"><img src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/7e/AFC-Logo_Decline.svg/50px-AFC-Logo_Decline.svg.png" decoding="async" width="50" height="50" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/7e/AFC-Logo_Decline.svg/75px-AFC-Logo_Decline.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/7e/AFC-Logo_Decline.svg/100px-AFC-Logo_Decline.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="48" data-file-height="48"/></a><figcaption></figcaption></figure>Thank you for your recent submission to <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:AFC" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:AFC">Articles for Creation</a>. Your article submission has been reviewed. Unfortunately, it has not been accepted at this time. Please view your submission to see the comments left by the reviewer. You are welcome to edit the submission to address the issues raised, and resubmit once you feel they have been resolved. <p><br/> </p> <ul><li>If you would like to continue working on the submission, you can find it at <a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia_talk:Articles_for_creation/Zenfolio&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Wikipedia talk:Articles for creation/Zenfolio (page does not exist)">Wikipedia talk:Articles for creation/Zenfolio</a>.</li> <li>To edit the submission, click on the "Edit" tab at the top of the window.</li> <li>If you need any assistance, you can ask for help at the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Articles_for_creation/Help_desk" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Articles for creation/Help desk">help desk</a> or via <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="http://webchat.freenode.net/?channels=wikipedia-en-help">live help</a></li></ul> <dl><dd>Thank you for your contributions to Wikipedia! - <a href="/wiki/User:Happysailor" title="User:Happysailor"><span style="color:#8B0000"><b>Happysailor</b></span></a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Happysailor" title="User talk:Happysailor"><sup><span style="color:Green"><i>(Talk)</i></span></sup></a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Victor_Engel#c-Happysailor-2012-03-10T14:00:00.000Z-Your_submission_at_Articles_for_creation" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">14:00, 10 March 2012 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Happysailor-2012-03-10T14:00:00.000Z-Your_submission_at_Articles_for_creation"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Happysailor-2012-03-10T14:00:00.000Z-Your_submission_at_Articles_for_creation"></span></dd></dl></div> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Editing_interface" data-mw-thread-id="h-Editing_interface"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Editing_interface"></span>Editing interface<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Editing_interface"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Victor_Engel&action=edit&section=12" title="Edit section: Editing interface"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span></div> <p>Depending on your browser, you should have a basic set of citation tools at the top right edge of the text editor window, which are discussed a little bit at <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:CITE" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:CITE">WP:CITE</a>. More information about integrating more advanced text editors can be found at <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Text_editor_support" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:Text editor support">Wikipedia:Text editor support</a>. </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Zenfolio" data-mw-thread-id="h-Zenfolio-2012-03-13T06:07:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Zenfolio-2012-03-13T06:07:00.000Z"></span>Zenfolio<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Zenfolio-2012-03-13T06:07:00.000Z"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Victor_Engel&action=edit&section=13" title="Edit section: Zenfolio"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-VQuakr-2012-03-13T06:07:00.000Z-Zenfolio"></span>To expand a bit on the discussion at <a href="/wiki/Talk:List_of_photo_sharing_websites" class="mw-redirect" title="Talk:List of photo sharing websites">Talk:List of photo sharing websites</a>, my opinion is that the notability concerns with <a href="/w/index.php?title=Zenfolio&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Zenfolio (page does not exist)">Zenfolio</a> need to be addressed before it is added to the list. Writing the article about the subject before adding it to lists is pretty standard practice, and unfortunately I am not convinced that this website meets the criteria at <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:GNG" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:GNG">WP:GNG</a> or <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WEB" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:WEB">WP:WEB</a>. None of the sources currently in the article at AfC appear to simultaneously meet the significant coverage and reliable source clauses of the GNG. The previous deletion of this article due to notability probably is getting it more attention from me than the other sites on the list; if you think some should not be there feel free to bring them up for discussion or <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:BOLD" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:BOLD">boldly</a> remove them yourself. Kind regards! <a href="/wiki/User:VQuakr" title="User:VQuakr">VQuakr</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:VQuakr" title="User talk:VQuakr">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Victor_Engel#c-VQuakr-2012-03-13T06:07:00.000Z-Zenfolio" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">06:07, 13 March 2012 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-VQuakr-2012-03-13T06:07:00.000Z-Zenfolio"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-VQuakr-2012-03-13T06:07:00.000Z-Zenfolio"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Victor_Engel-2012-03-13T14:50:00.000Z-VQuakr-2012-03-13T06:07:00.000Z"></span>This is absurd. Is a PC World review not relevant? PC World is a long term relevant publication both on the web and in print. I should remove other sites from a list because you are nitpicking Zenfolio? Using your same criteria, pbase should be deleted. I certainly don't think it should be deleted, though. It is just as notable a site as Zenfolio. The only reason Zenfolio is not as notable as pbase is that it is not as old. In my opinion, Zenfolio is more notable than the vast majority of sites listed there for professional photographers. Perhaps the list is intended to be a list of free photo sharing sites for amateurs? In that case, Zenfolio doesn't qualify, but only because it's not free.<a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Victor_Engel&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Victor Engel (page does not exist)">Victor Engel</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Victor_Engel#c-Victor_Engel-2012-03-13T14:50:00.000Z-VQuakr-2012-03-13T06:07:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">14:50, 13 March 2012 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Victor_Engel-2012-03-13T14:50:00.000Z-VQuakr-2012-03-13T06:07:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Victor_Engel-2012-03-13T14:50:00.000Z-VQuakr-2012-03-13T06:07:00.000Z"></span></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Victor_Engel-2012-03-13T15:12:00.000Z-Zenfolio"></span>Maybe you need more print sources?</dd></dl> <ul><li>Duncan Grove, Pro Photo Magazine (UK) July 2010</li> <li>George Schaub, Shutterbug July 2010</li> <li>Curtis Joe Walker, Professional Photographer, January 2010</li></ul> <p><a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Victor_Engel&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Victor Engel (page does not exist)">Victor Engel</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Victor_Engel#c-Victor_Engel-2012-03-13T15:12:00.000Z-Zenfolio" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:12, 13 March 2012 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Victor_Engel-2012-03-13T15:12:00.000Z-Zenfolio"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Victor_Engel-2012-03-13T15:12:00.000Z-Zenfolio"></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Your_submission_at_Articles_for_creation_2" data-mw-thread-id="h-Your_submission_at_Articles_for_creation_2-2012-03-13T19:22:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Your_submission_at_Articles_for_creation_2-2012-03-13T19:22:00.000Z"></span>Your submission at <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:AFC" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:AFC">Articles for creation</a><span data-mw-comment-end="h-Your_submission_at_Articles_for_creation_2-2012-03-13T19:22:00.000Z"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Victor_Engel&action=edit&section=14" title="Edit section: Your submission at Articles for creation"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <div style="border:solid 1px #9accf6;background:#f1f9ff;padding:1em;padding-top:0.5em;padding-bottom:0.5em;width:20em;color:black;margin-bottom: 1.5em;margin-left: 1.5em;width: 90%;"> <span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Hallows_AG-2012-03-13T19:22:00.000Z-Your_submission_at_Articles_for_creation_2"></span><figure class="mw-halign-left" typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:AFC-Logo_Decline.svg" class="mw-file-description"><img src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/7e/AFC-Logo_Decline.svg/50px-AFC-Logo_Decline.svg.png" decoding="async" width="50" height="50" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/7e/AFC-Logo_Decline.svg/75px-AFC-Logo_Decline.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/7e/AFC-Logo_Decline.svg/100px-AFC-Logo_Decline.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="48" data-file-height="48"/></a><figcaption></figcaption></figure>Thank you for your recent submission to <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:AFC" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:AFC">Articles for Creation</a>. Your article submission has been reviewed. Unfortunately, it has not been accepted at this time. Please view your submission to see the comments left by the reviewer. You are welcome to edit the submission to address the issues raised, and resubmit once you feel they have been resolved. <p><br/> </p> <ul><li>If you would like to continue working on the submission, you can find it at <a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia_talk:Articles_for_creation/Zenfolio&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Wikipedia talk:Articles for creation/Zenfolio (page does not exist)">Wikipedia talk:Articles for creation/Zenfolio</a>.</li> <li>To edit the submission, click on the "Edit" tab at the top of the window.</li> <li>If you need any assistance, you can ask for help at the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Articles_for_creation/Help_desk" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Articles for creation/Help desk">help desk</a> or via <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="http://webchat.freenode.net/?channels=wikipedia-en-help">live help</a></li></ul> <dl><dd>Thank you for your contributions to Wikipedia! <a href="/wiki/User:Hallows_AG" title="User:Hallows AG"><span style="font-family: "Trebuchet MS"; color:#008000">Hallows</span></a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Hallows_AG" title="User talk:Hallows AG"><span style="font-family: "Trebuchet MS"; color:#003200">ask your question about your article here</span></a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Victor_Engel#c-Hallows_AG-2012-03-13T19:22:00.000Z-Your_submission_at_Articles_for_creation_2" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:22, 13 March 2012 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Hallows_AG-2012-03-13T19:22:00.000Z-Your_submission_at_Articles_for_creation_2"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Hallows_AG-2012-03-13T19:22:00.000Z-Your_submission_at_Articles_for_creation_2"></span></dd></dl></div> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Talkback" data-mw-thread-id="h-Talkback-2012-03-19T21:11:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Talkback-2012-03-19T21:11:00.000Z"></span>Talkback<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Talkback-2012-03-19T21:11:00.000Z"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Victor_Engel&action=edit&section=15" title="Edit section: Talkback"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Hallows_AG-2012-03-19T21:11:00.000Z-Talkback"></span><style data-mw-deduplicate="TemplateStyles:r1256396942">.mw-parser-output .umbox{background-color:var(--background-color-content-added,#a3d3ff);border:1px solid var(--border-color-progressive,#36c);padding:0.5em 1em;margin:2em 0 1em;font-weight:bold;overflow:auto;vertical-align:middle}</style> <div class="umbox"><figure class="mw-halign-left" typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Hallows_AG" title="User talk:Hallows AG"><img src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/23/Nuvola_apps_edu_languages.svg/40px-Nuvola_apps_edu_languages.svg.png" decoding="async" width="40" height="40" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/23/Nuvola_apps_edu_languages.svg/60px-Nuvola_apps_edu_languages.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/23/Nuvola_apps_edu_languages.svg/80px-Nuvola_apps_edu_languages.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="128" data-file-height="128"/></a><figcaption></figcaption></figure>Hello, Victor Engel. You have new messages at <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Hallows_AG" title="User talk:Hallows AG">Hallows AG's talk page</a>.<br/><span style="font-size: 88%; font-weight: normal;">Message added <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Victor_Engel#c-Hallows_AG-2012-03-19T21:11:00.000Z-Talkback" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:11, 19 March 2012 (UTC)</a>. You can <a href="/wiki/Special:EditPage/User_talk:Victor_Engel" title="Special:EditPage/User talk:Victor Engel">remove this notice</a> at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.<span data-mw-comment-end="c-Hallows_AG-2012-03-19T21:11:00.000Z-Talkback"></span></span><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Hallows_AG-2012-03-19T21:11:00.000Z-Talkback"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span></div> <p><a href="/wiki/User:Hallows_AG" title="User:Hallows AG"><span style="font-family: "Trebuchet MS"; color:#008000"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Hallows_AG-2012-03-19T21:11:00.000Z-Talkback-1"></span>Hallows Aktiengesellschaft</span></a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Hallows_AG" title="User talk:Hallows AG"><span style="font-family: "Trebuchet MS"; color:#003200">talk</span></a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Victor_Engel#c-Hallows_AG-2012-03-19T21:11:00.000Z-Talkback-1" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:11, 19 March 2012 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Hallows_AG-2012-03-19T21:11:00.000Z-Talkback-1"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Hallows_AG-2012-03-19T21:11:00.000Z-Talkback-1"></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Speedy_deletion_nomination_of_Zenfolio" data-mw-thread-id="h-Speedy_deletion_nomination_of_Zenfolio-2012-03-20T11:41:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Speedy_deletion_nomination_of_Zenfolio-2012-03-20T11:41:00.000Z"></span><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Criteria_for_speedy_deletion" title="Wikipedia:Criteria for speedy deletion">Speedy deletion</a> nomination of <a href="/w/index.php?title=Zenfolio&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Zenfolio (page does not exist)">Zenfolio</a><span data-mw-comment-end="h-Speedy_deletion_nomination_of_Zenfolio-2012-03-20T11:41:00.000Z"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Victor_Engel&action=edit&section=16" title="Edit section: Speedy deletion nomination of Zenfolio"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Hallows_AG-2012-03-20T11:41:00.000Z-Speedy_deletion_nomination_of_Zenfolio"></span><figure class="mw-halign-left" typeof="mw:File"><span><img alt="" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/1/15/Ambox_warning_pn.svg/48px-Ambox_warning_pn.svg.png" decoding="async" width="48" height="42" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/1/15/Ambox_warning_pn.svg/72px-Ambox_warning_pn.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/1/15/Ambox_warning_pn.svg/96px-Ambox_warning_pn.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="512" data-file-height="445"/></span><figcaption></figcaption></figure> <style data-mw-deduplicate="TemplateStyles:r1224211176">.mw-parser-output .quotebox{background-color:#F9F9F9;border:1px solid #aaa;box-sizing:border-box;padding:10px;font-size:88%;max-width:100%}.mw-parser-output .quotebox.floatleft{margin:.5em 1.4em .8em 0}.mw-parser-output .quotebox.floatright{margin:.5em 0 .8em 1.4em}.mw-parser-output .quotebox.centered{overflow:hidden;position:relative;margin:.5em auto .8em auto}.mw-parser-output .quotebox.floatleft span,.mw-parser-output .quotebox.floatright span{font-style:inherit}.mw-parser-output .quotebox>blockquote{margin:0;padding:0;border-left:0;font-family:inherit;font-size:inherit}.mw-parser-output .quotebox-title{text-align:center;font-size:110%;font-weight:bold}.mw-parser-output .quotebox-quote>:first-child{margin-top:0}.mw-parser-output .quotebox-quote:last-child>:last-child{margin-bottom:0}.mw-parser-output .quotebox-quote.quoted:before{font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;font-weight:bold;font-size:large;color:gray;content:" “ ";vertical-align:-45%;line-height:0}.mw-parser-output .quotebox-quote.quoted:after{font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;font-weight:bold;font-size:large;color:gray;content:" ” ";line-height:0}.mw-parser-output .quotebox .left-aligned{text-align:left}.mw-parser-output .quotebox .right-aligned{text-align:right}.mw-parser-output .quotebox .center-aligned{text-align:center}.mw-parser-output .quotebox .quote-title,.mw-parser-output .quotebox .quotebox-quote{display:block}.mw-parser-output .quotebox cite{display:block;font-style:normal}@media screen and (max-width:640px){.mw-parser-output .quotebox{width:100%!important;margin:0 0 .8em!important;float:none!important}}</style><div class="quotebox pullquote floatright" style="width:20%; ;"> <blockquote class="quotebox-quote left-aligned" style=""> <p>If this is the first article that you have created, you may want to read <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Your_first_article" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:Your first article">the guide to writing your first article</a>.</p><p>You may want to consider using the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Article_wizard" title="Wikipedia:Article wizard">Article Wizard</a> to help you create articles.</p> </blockquote> </div> <p>A tag has been placed on <a href="/w/index.php?title=Zenfolio&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Zenfolio (page does not exist)">Zenfolio</a>, requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:CSD#G11" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:CSD">section G11 of the criteria for speedy deletion</a>, because the page seems to be unambiguous advertising which only promotes a company, product, group, service or person and would need to be fundamentally rewritten in order to become an encyclopedia article. Please read <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Spam" title="Wikipedia:Spam">the guidelines on spam</a> and <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:FAQ/Business" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:FAQ/Business">Wikipedia:FAQ/Business</a> for more information. </p><p>If you think that the page was nominated in error, contest the nomination by clicking on the button labelled "Click here to contest this speedy deletion" in the speedy deletion tag. Doing so will take you to the talk page where you can explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. You can also visit <b><a href="/w/index.php?title=Talk:Zenfolio&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Talk:Zenfolio (page does not exist)">the page's talk page directly</a></b> to give your reasons, but be aware that once a page is tagged for speedy deletion, it may be removed without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag yourself, but do not hesitate to add information that is consistent with <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:List_of_policies" title="Wikipedia:List of policies">Wikipedia's policies and guidelines</a>. If the page is deleted, you can contact <a href="/wiki/Category:Wikipedia_administrators_who_will_provide_copies_of_deleted_articles" title="Category:Wikipedia administrators who will provide copies of deleted articles">one of these administrators</a> to request that the administrator <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Userfication#Userfication_of_deleted_content" title="Wikipedia:Userfication">userfy</a> the page or email a copy to you. <a href="/wiki/User:Hallows_AG" title="User:Hallows AG"><span style="font-family: "Trebuchet MS"; color:#008000">Hallows Aktiengesellschaft</span></a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Hallows_AG" title="User talk:Hallows AG"><span style="font-family: "Trebuchet MS"; color:#003200">talk</span></a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Victor_Engel#c-Hallows_AG-2012-03-20T11:41:00.000Z-Speedy_deletion_nomination_of_Zenfolio" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">11:41, 20 March 2012 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Hallows_AG-2012-03-20T11:41:00.000Z-Speedy_deletion_nomination_of_Zenfolio"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Hallows_AG-2012-03-20T11:41:00.000Z-Speedy_deletion_nomination_of_Zenfolio"></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Zenfolio_article_deleted?" data-mw-thread-id="h-Zenfolio_article_deleted?-2012-03-21T16:40:00.000Z"><span id="Zenfolio_article_deleted.3F"></span><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Zenfolio_article_deleted?-2012-03-21T16:40:00.000Z"></span>Zenfolio article deleted?<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Zenfolio_article_deleted?-2012-03-21T16:40:00.000Z"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Victor_Engel&action=edit&section=17" title="Edit section: Zenfolio article deleted?"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span class="nowrap"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Victor_Engel-2012-03-21T16:40:00.000Z-Zenfolio_article_deleted?"></span>{{</span><a href="/wiki/Template:Help_me" title="Template:Help me">Help me</a><span class="nowrap">}}</span>This has been an immensely frustration process for me. I'm trying to contribute to wikipedia, but at each step, I seem to be stepped on by people with more power than courtesy. The latest instance involves the apparent deletion of the article I was asked to create in order to add an entry to a different article. The article apparently was deleted before I could correct the article. The person asking me to correct the article did not instruct me on how to correct it despite repeated requests. I consider this an abuse of power, and I expect an apology and assistance in moving forward with the article. I have spent time on this article, and that time is valuable to me. So simply throwing it out without giving me the chance to correct it is like stealing my time.<a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Victor_Engel&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Victor Engel (page does not exist)">Victor Engel</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Victor_Engel#c-Victor_Engel-2012-03-21T16:40:00.000Z-Zenfolio_article_deleted?" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:40, 21 March 2012 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Victor_Engel-2012-03-21T16:40:00.000Z-Zenfolio_article_deleted?"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Victor_Engel-2012-03-21T16:40:00.000Z-Zenfolio_article_deleted?"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Hghyux-2012-03-21T17:55:00.000Z-Victor_Engel-2012-03-21T16:40:00.000Z"></span>Was the intention of the article to promote a company? Or was it written in that tone? <a href="/wiki/User:Hghyux" title="User:Hghyux">Hghyux</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Hghyux" title="User talk:Hghyux">talk to me</a>)(<a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Y" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:Y">talk to others</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Victor_Engel#c-Hghyux-2012-03-21T17:55:00.000Z-Victor_Engel-2012-03-21T16:40:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:55, 21 March 2012 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Hghyux-2012-03-21T17:55:00.000Z-Victor_Engel-2012-03-21T16:40:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Hghyux-2012-03-21T17:55:00.000Z-Victor_Engel-2012-03-21T16:40:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Victor_Engel-2012-03-21T18:40:00.000Z-Hghyux-2012-03-21T17:55:00.000Z"></span>First, let me say that although I've edited a number of articles, this is the first one I've created from scratch. I created it because when I added Zenfolio to <a href="/wiki/List_of_photo_sharing_websites" class="mw-redirect" title="List of photo sharing websites">List of photo sharing websites</a>, my addition was removed due to lack of notability of Zenfolio. I went back and forth trying to support the notability, and finally, the person who removed it, added it back after he did his own research. I was also told that there should be an article before the company is added to that list, so I started an article based on that direction. Having never created an article before, I used the article of another site on that same list as a template and modified it with Zenfolio data. Since I'm more comfortable editing existing articles than creating new ones, my goal was to create a basic one with limited information at first, and then add more using edits I'm more familiar with later. My article was declined based on notability and references, so I started adding citations. As I stated somewhere, I don't want the article to simply be a big list of citations. It seems like one good one should be sufficient to establish notability (which has been established a separate way in the list article as well). I have dozens of citations at hand, which I'm just waiting to start amending to the article. So it's frustrating to find the article simply deleted. I am not, nor have I have I ever been, an employee of Zenfolio. I have nothing to gain by advertising for them. Thank you for your assistance.<a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Victor_Engel&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Victor Engel (page does not exist)">Victor Engel</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Victor_Engel#c-Victor_Engel-2012-03-21T18:40:00.000Z-Hghyux-2012-03-21T17:55:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:40, 21 March 2012 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Victor_Engel-2012-03-21T18:40:00.000Z-Hghyux-2012-03-21T17:55:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Victor_Engel-2012-03-21T18:40:00.000Z-Hghyux-2012-03-21T17:55:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Hghyux-2012-03-22T21:33:00.000Z-Victor_Engel-2012-03-21T18:40:00.000Z"></span>Go to <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:REFUND" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:REFUND">WP:REFUND</a> to try and get it back. <a href="/wiki/User:Hghyux" title="User:Hghyux">Hghyux</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Hghyux" title="User talk:Hghyux">talk to me</a>)(<a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Y" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:Y">talk to others</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Victor_Engel#c-Hghyux-2012-03-22T21:33:00.000Z-Victor_Engel-2012-03-21T18:40:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:33, 22 March 2012 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Hghyux-2012-03-22T21:33:00.000Z-Victor_Engel-2012-03-21T18:40:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Hghyux-2012-03-22T21:33:00.000Z-Victor_Engel-2012-03-21T18:40:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Victor_Engel-2012-03-24T02:07:00.000Z-Hghyux-2012-03-22T21:33:00.000Z"></span>Thanks. Done. Now I know what Userfy means. Also, for some reason, the first time I followed <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:REFUND" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:REFUND">WP:REFUND</a> I couldn't figure out what to do. It turned out the form I needed to enter the article name in was so prominent I didn't see it. How embarrassing. <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Victor_Engel&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Victor Engel (page does not exist)">Victor Engel</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Victor_Engel#c-Victor_Engel-2012-03-24T02:07:00.000Z-Hghyux-2012-03-22T21:33:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:07, 24 March 2012 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Victor_Engel-2012-03-24T02:07:00.000Z-Hghyux-2012-03-22T21:33:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Victor_Engel-2012-03-24T02:07:00.000Z-Hghyux-2012-03-22T21:33:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Skier_Dude-2012-03-21T20:12:00.000Z-Victor_Engel-2012-03-21T16:40:00.000Z"></span>Since this was deleted because of a deletion discussion <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Zenfolio" title="Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Zenfolio">Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Zenfolio</a> - the first step must be taking the issue to <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Deletion_review" title="Wikipedia:Deletion review">Wikipedia:Deletion review</a>. Recreations of the article will probably be deleted without going through that step. They (Del Review watchers) will also be able to give very specific feedback for the article's restoration. <a href="/wiki/User:Skier_Dude" title="User:Skier Dude"><span style="color:ForestGreen">Skier Dude</span></a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Skier_Dude" title="User talk:Skier Dude"><span style="color:SaddleBrown">talk</span></a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Victor_Engel#c-Skier_Dude-2012-03-21T20:12:00.000Z-Victor_Engel-2012-03-21T16:40:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:12, 21 March 2012 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Skier_Dude-2012-03-21T20:12:00.000Z-Victor_Engel-2012-03-21T16:40:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Skier_Dude-2012-03-21T20:12:00.000Z-Victor_Engel-2012-03-21T16:40:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Victor_Engel-2012-03-21T20:31:00.000Z-Skier_Dude-2012-03-21T20:12:00.000Z"></span>Right, that is the page I was looking at when I added the help me tag, as suggested on that page. What confuses me is how the article could have been set up for speedy deletion when as far as I knew, it hadn't even yet been approved as an article in the first place. The last I knew, I had resubmitted the article after addressing specific issues that were pointed out, and I was waiting for feedback to see if I had addressed them completely. If not, the appropriate thing to do would have been to address those issues, not to delete the not-quite-yet-an-article.<a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Victor_Engel&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Victor Engel (page does not exist)">Victor Engel</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Victor_Engel#c-Victor_Engel-2012-03-21T20:31:00.000Z-Skier_Dude-2012-03-21T20:12:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:31, 21 March 2012 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Victor_Engel-2012-03-21T20:31:00.000Z-Skier_Dude-2012-03-21T20:12:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Victor_Engel-2012-03-21T20:31:00.000Z-Skier_Dude-2012-03-21T20:12:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-VQuakr-2012-03-22T01:42:00.000Z-Victor_Engel-2012-03-21T20:31:00.000Z"></span>I believe it was moved into article space by an Articles for Creation volunteer, then subsequently deleted. This obviously represents a bit of a disconnect between AfC and the deleting admin; there may be an opportunity here to improve coordination between AfC and New Page Patrol/practice for speedy deletions. Are you planning to submit this one to <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:DRV" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:DRV">WP:DRV</a>? If not, I might run with trying to bring up the more general AfC/NPP coordination issue. In any case, I apologize for my part in your frustration. <a href="/wiki/User:VQuakr" title="User:VQuakr">VQuakr</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:VQuakr" title="User talk:VQuakr">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Victor_Engel#c-VQuakr-2012-03-22T01:42:00.000Z-Victor_Engel-2012-03-21T20:31:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:42, 22 March 2012 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-VQuakr-2012-03-22T01:42:00.000Z-Victor_Engel-2012-03-21T20:31:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-VQuakr-2012-03-22T01:42:00.000Z-Victor_Engel-2012-03-21T20:31:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Victor_Engel-2012-03-22T03:39:00.000Z-VQuakr-2012-03-22T01:42:00.000Z"></span>Thanks for the reply. At this point, everything is in such a mess that I don't know what the best approach is. I do think it's important that the article be created, and I will do my part to help craft it. The state I last left it was never intended to be a final and complete article, but you need to start somewhere, right? At this point, can I let you decide what is best to do in this case? If so, I'll follow your lead. One idea would be to restore things to the way they were when the article was rejected the last time but still existed. That way, it would be available for improving. If it would be better to start from scratch, I guess I'm OK with that, too, but I don't want to go down this same road again, so I'd like to know what I could do differently to keep that from happening. By the way, I never saw the deletion discussion (far less participated in it), so I don't know what was said there. It never dawned on me that there would even be one, since that presumed the article had to first be created, which last I checked hadn't happened.<a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Victor_Engel&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Victor Engel (page does not exist)">Victor Engel</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Victor_Engel#c-Victor_Engel-2012-03-22T03:39:00.000Z-VQuakr-2012-03-22T01:42:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">03:39, 22 March 2012 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Victor_Engel-2012-03-22T03:39:00.000Z-VQuakr-2012-03-22T01:42:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Victor_Engel-2012-03-22T03:39:00.000Z-VQuakr-2012-03-22T01:42:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-VQuakr-2012-03-24T04:33:00.000Z-Victor_Engel-2012-03-22T03:39:00.000Z"></span>I took a first pass at rewriting the article at <a href="/wiki/User:Victor_Engel/Zenfolio" title="User:Victor Engel/Zenfolio">User:Victor Engel/Zenfolio</a>. I removed the existing secondary sources because they did not meet <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:RS" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:RS">WP:RS</a>; instead adding a couple others including the PC World article that you mentioned. Let me know what you think, and if you have any other similar sources, adding them would be helpful. When this article is ready for review, a request should be started at <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:DRV" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:DRV">deletion review</a> to avoid speedy deletion per <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:CSD#G4" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:CSD">WP:CSD#G4</a>. I can assist with that when the time comes. <a href="/wiki/User:VQuakr" title="User:VQuakr">VQuakr</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:VQuakr" title="User talk:VQuakr">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Victor_Engel#c-VQuakr-2012-03-24T04:33:00.000Z-Victor_Engel-2012-03-22T03:39:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">04:33, 24 March 2012 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-VQuakr-2012-03-24T04:33:00.000Z-Victor_Engel-2012-03-22T03:39:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-VQuakr-2012-03-24T04:33:00.000Z-Victor_Engel-2012-03-22T03:39:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Victor_Engel-2012-03-31T02:45:00.000Z-VQuakr-2012-03-24T04:33:00.000Z"></span>Thank you. I haven't taken a look yet, since I've been very busy at work. As it happens, today was my last day at work, so I'll have time presently to take a closer look.<a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Victor_Engel&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Victor Engel (page does not exist)">Victor Engel</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Victor_Engel#c-Victor_Engel-2012-03-31T02:45:00.000Z-VQuakr-2012-03-24T04:33:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:45, 31 March 2012 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Victor_Engel-2012-03-31T02:45:00.000Z-VQuakr-2012-03-24T04:33:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Victor_Engel-2012-03-31T02:45:00.000Z-VQuakr-2012-03-24T04:33:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="ArbCom_elections_are_now_open!" data-mw-thread-id="h-ArbCom_elections_are_now_open!-2015-11-23T08:51:00.000Z"><span id="ArbCom_elections_are_now_open.21"></span><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-ArbCom_elections_are_now_open!-2015-11-23T08:51:00.000Z"></span><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:ACE2015" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:ACE2015">ArbCom elections are now open!</a><span data-mw-comment-end="h-ArbCom_elections_are_now_open!-2015-11-23T08:51:00.000Z"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Victor_Engel&action=edit&section=18" title="Edit section: ArbCom elections are now open!"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-MediaWiki_message_delivery-2015-11-23T08:51:00.000Z-ArbCom_elections_are_now_open!"></span>Hi,<br/> You appear to be eligible to vote in the current <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:ACE2015" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:ACE2015">Arbitration Committee election</a>. The <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:ARBCOM" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:ARBCOM">Arbitration Committee</a> is the panel of editors responsible for conducting the Wikipedia <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:RFAR" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:RFAR">arbitration process</a>. It has the authority to enact binding solutions for disputes between editors, primarily related to serious behavioural issues that the community has been unable to resolve. This includes the ability to impose <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:BAN" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:BAN">site bans</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:TBAN" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:TBAN">topic bans</a>, editing restrictions, and other measures needed to maintain our editing environment. The <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:ARBPOL" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:ARBPOL">arbitration policy</a> describes the Committee's roles and responsibilities in greater detail. If you wish to participate, you are welcome to <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:ACE2015/C" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:ACE2015/C">review the candidates' statements</a> and submit your choices on <a href="/wiki/Special:SecurePoll/vote/398" title="Special:SecurePoll/vote/398">the voting page</a>. For the Election committee, <a href="/wiki/User:MediaWiki_message_delivery" title="User:MediaWiki message delivery">MediaWiki message delivery</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:MediaWiki_message_delivery" title="User talk:MediaWiki message delivery">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Victor_Engel#c-MediaWiki_message_delivery-2015-11-23T08:51:00.000Z-ArbCom_elections_are_now_open!" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">08:51, 23 November 2015 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-MediaWiki_message_delivery-2015-11-23T08:51:00.000Z-ArbCom_elections_are_now_open!"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-MediaWiki_message_delivery-2015-11-23T08:51:00.000Z-ArbCom_elections_are_now_open!"></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="ArbCom_Elections_2016:_Voting_now_open!" data-mw-thread-id="h-ArbCom_Elections_2016:_Voting_now_open!-2016-11-21T22:08:00.000Z"><span id="ArbCom_Elections_2016:_Voting_now_open.21"></span><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-ArbCom_Elections_2016:_Voting_now_open!-2016-11-21T22:08:00.000Z"></span><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:ACE2016" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:ACE2016">ArbCom Elections 2016</a>: Voting now open!<span data-mw-comment-end="h-ArbCom_Elections_2016:_Voting_now_open!-2016-11-21T22:08:00.000Z"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Victor_Engel&action=edit&section=19" title="Edit section: ArbCom Elections 2016: Voting now open!"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Mdann52-2016-11-21T22:08:00.000Z-ArbCom_Elections_2016:_Voting_now_open!"></span><style data-mw-deduplicate="TemplateStyles:r1256334245">.mw-parser-output .ivmbox{margin-bottom:1em;border:1px solid var(--border-color-base,#a2a9b1);background-color:var(--background-color-warning-subtle,#fdf2d5);padding:0.5em;display:flex;align-items:center}@media screen{html.skin-theme-clientpref-night .mw-parser-output .ivmbox[style*="background"]{background-color:var(--background-color-warning-subtle,ivory)!important;color:inherit}}@media screen and (prefers-color-scheme:dark){html.skin-theme-clientpref-os .mw-parser-output .ivmbox[style*="background"]{background-color:var(--background-color-warning-subtle,ivory)!important;color:inherit}}.mw-parser-output .ivmbox-image{padding-left:1px;padding-right:0.5em;max-width:100px;flex:1 0 25px}.mw-parser-output .ivmbox-text{padding:0.5em 0}.mw-parser-output .ivmbox-text>:first-child{margin-top:0}.mw-parser-output .ivmbox-text>:last-child{margin-bottom:0}</style><div class="ivmbox" style=""> <div class="ivmbox-image" style="flex-basis: 40px"><span typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Scale_of_justice_2.svg" class="mw-file-description"><img src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/0e/Scale_of_justice_2.svg/40px-Scale_of_justice_2.svg.png" decoding="async" width="40" height="41" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/0e/Scale_of_justice_2.svg/60px-Scale_of_justice_2.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/0e/Scale_of_justice_2.svg/80px-Scale_of_justice_2.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="204" data-file-height="208"/></a></span></div> <div class="ivmbox-text"> <p>Hello, Victor Engel. Voting in the <b><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:ACE2016" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:ACE2016">2016 Arbitration Committee elections</a></b> is open from Monday, 00:00, 21 November through Sunday, 23:59, 4 December to all unblocked users who have registered an account before Wednesday, 00:00, 28 October 2016 and have made at least 150 mainspace edits before Sunday, 00:00, 1 November 2016. </p><p>The <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:ARBCOM" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:ARBCOM">Arbitration Committee</a> is the panel of editors responsible for conducting the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration">Wikipedia arbitration process</a>. It has the authority to impose binding solutions to disputes between editors, primarily for serious conduct disputes the community has been unable to resolve. This includes the authority to impose <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:BAN" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:BAN">site bans</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:TBAN" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:TBAN">topic bans</a>, editing restrictions, and other measures needed to maintain our editing environment. The <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Policy" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Policy">arbitration policy</a> describes the Committee's roles and responsibilities in greater detail. </p><p>If you wish to participate in the 2016 election, please review <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration_Committee_Elections_December_2016/Candidates" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration Committee Elections December 2016/Candidates">the candidates' statements</a> and submit your choices on <b><a href="/wiki/Special:SecurePoll/vote/399" title="Special:SecurePoll/vote/399">the voting page</a></b>. <a href="/wiki/User:Mdann52" title="User:Mdann52">Mdann52</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Mdann52" title="User talk:Mdann52">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Victor_Engel#c-Mdann52-2016-11-21T22:08:00.000Z-ArbCom_Elections_2016:_Voting_now_open!" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:08, 21 November 2016 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Mdann52-2016-11-21T22:08:00.000Z-ArbCom_Elections_2016:_Voting_now_open!"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Mdann52-2016-11-21T22:08:00.000Z-ArbCom_Elections_2016:_Voting_now_open!"></span> </p> </div> </div> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="ArbCom_Elections_2016:_Voting_now_open!_2" data-mw-thread-id="h-ArbCom_Elections_2016:_Voting_now_open!_2-2016-11-21T22:08:00.000Z"><span id="ArbCom_Elections_2016:_Voting_now_open.21_2"></span><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-ArbCom_Elections_2016:_Voting_now_open!_2-2016-11-21T22:08:00.000Z"></span><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:ACE2016" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:ACE2016">ArbCom Elections 2016</a>: Voting now open!<span data-mw-comment-end="h-ArbCom_Elections_2016:_Voting_now_open!_2-2016-11-21T22:08:00.000Z"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Victor_Engel&action=edit&section=20" title="Edit section: ArbCom Elections 2016: Voting now open!"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-MediaWiki_message_delivery-2016-11-21T22:08:00.000Z-ArbCom_Elections_2016:_Voting_now_open!_2"></span><link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1256334245"><div class="ivmbox" style=""> <div class="ivmbox-image" style="flex-basis: 40px"><span typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Scale_of_justice_2.svg" class="mw-file-description"><img src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/0e/Scale_of_justice_2.svg/40px-Scale_of_justice_2.svg.png" decoding="async" width="40" height="41" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/0e/Scale_of_justice_2.svg/60px-Scale_of_justice_2.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/0e/Scale_of_justice_2.svg/80px-Scale_of_justice_2.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="204" data-file-height="208"/></a></span></div> <div class="ivmbox-text"> <p>Hello, Victor Engel. Voting in the <b><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:ACE2016" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:ACE2016">2016 Arbitration Committee elections</a></b> is open from Monday, 00:00, 21 November through Sunday, 23:59, 4 December to all unblocked users who have registered an account before Wednesday, 00:00, 28 October 2016 and have made at least 150 mainspace edits before Sunday, 00:00, 1 November 2016. </p><p>The <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:ARBCOM" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:ARBCOM">Arbitration Committee</a> is the panel of editors responsible for conducting the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration">Wikipedia arbitration process</a>. It has the authority to impose binding solutions to disputes between editors, primarily for serious conduct disputes the community has been unable to resolve. This includes the authority to impose <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:BAN" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:BAN">site bans</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:TBAN" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:TBAN">topic bans</a>, editing restrictions, and other measures needed to maintain our editing environment. The <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Policy" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Policy">arbitration policy</a> describes the Committee's roles and responsibilities in greater detail. </p><p>If you wish to participate in the 2016 election, please review <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration_Committee_Elections_December_2016/Candidates" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration Committee Elections December 2016/Candidates">the candidates' statements</a> and submit your choices on <b><a href="/wiki/Special:SecurePoll/vote/399" title="Special:SecurePoll/vote/399">the voting page</a></b>. <a href="/wiki/User:MediaWiki_message_delivery" title="User:MediaWiki message delivery">MediaWiki message delivery</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:MediaWiki_message_delivery" title="User talk:MediaWiki message delivery">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Victor_Engel#c-MediaWiki_message_delivery-2016-11-21T22:08:00.000Z-ArbCom_Elections_2016:_Voting_now_open!_2" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:08, 21 November 2016 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-MediaWiki_message_delivery-2016-11-21T22:08:00.000Z-ArbCom_Elections_2016:_Voting_now_open!_2"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-MediaWiki_message_delivery-2016-11-21T22:08:00.000Z-ArbCom_Elections_2016:_Voting_now_open!_2"></span> </p> </div> </div> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="ArbCom_2017_election_voter_message" data-mw-thread-id="h-ArbCom_2017_election_voter_message-2017-12-03T18:42:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-ArbCom_2017_election_voter_message-2017-12-03T18:42:00.000Z"></span>ArbCom 2017 election voter message<span data-mw-comment-end="h-ArbCom_2017_election_voter_message-2017-12-03T18:42:00.000Z"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Victor_Engel&action=edit&section=21" title="Edit section: ArbCom 2017 election voter message"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-MediaWiki_message_delivery-2017-12-03T18:42:00.000Z-ArbCom_2017_election_voter_message"></span><link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1256334245"><div class="ivmbox" style=""> <div class="ivmbox-image" style="flex-basis: 40px"><span typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Scale_of_justice_2.svg" class="mw-file-description"><img src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/0e/Scale_of_justice_2.svg/40px-Scale_of_justice_2.svg.png" decoding="async" width="40" height="41" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/0e/Scale_of_justice_2.svg/60px-Scale_of_justice_2.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/0e/Scale_of_justice_2.svg/80px-Scale_of_justice_2.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="204" data-file-height="208"/></a></span></div> <div class="ivmbox-text"> <p>Hello, Victor Engel. Voting in the <b><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:ACE2017" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:ACE2017">2017 Arbitration Committee elections</a></b> is now open until 23.59 on Sunday, 10 December. All users who registered an account before Saturday, 28 October 2017, made at least 150 mainspace edits before Wednesday, 1 November 2017 and are not currently blocked are eligible to vote. Users with alternate accounts may only vote once. </p><p>The <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:ARBCOM" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:ARBCOM">Arbitration Committee</a> is the panel of editors responsible for conducting the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration">Wikipedia arbitration process</a>. It has the authority to impose binding solutions to disputes between editors, primarily for serious conduct disputes the community has been unable to resolve. This includes the authority to impose <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:BAN" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:BAN">site bans</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:TBAN" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:TBAN">topic bans</a>, editing restrictions, and other measures needed to maintain our editing environment. The <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Policy" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Policy">arbitration policy</a> describes the Committee's roles and responsibilities in greater detail. </p><p>If you wish to participate in the 2017 election, please review <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration_Committee_Elections_December_2017/Candidates" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration Committee Elections December 2017/Candidates">the candidates</a> and submit your choices on the <b><a href="/wiki/Special:SecurePoll/vote/400" title="Special:SecurePoll/vote/400">voting page</a></b>. <a href="/wiki/User:MediaWiki_message_delivery" title="User:MediaWiki message delivery">MediaWiki message delivery</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:MediaWiki_message_delivery" title="User talk:MediaWiki message delivery">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Victor_Engel#c-MediaWiki_message_delivery-2017-12-03T18:42:00.000Z-ArbCom_2017_election_voter_message" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:42, 3 December 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-MediaWiki_message_delivery-2017-12-03T18:42:00.000Z-ArbCom_2017_election_voter_message"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-MediaWiki_message_delivery-2017-12-03T18:42:00.000Z-ArbCom_2017_election_voter_message"></span> </p> </div> </div> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="ArbCom_2018_election_voter_message" data-mw-thread-id="h-ArbCom_2018_election_voter_message-2018-11-19T18:42:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-ArbCom_2018_election_voter_message-2018-11-19T18:42:00.000Z"></span>ArbCom 2018 election voter message<span data-mw-comment-end="h-ArbCom_2018_election_voter_message-2018-11-19T18:42:00.000Z"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Victor_Engel&action=edit&section=22" title="Edit section: ArbCom 2018 election voter message"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-MediaWiki_message_delivery-2018-11-19T18:42:00.000Z-ArbCom_2018_election_voter_message"></span><link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1256334245"><div class="ivmbox" style=""> <div class="ivmbox-image" style="flex-basis: 40px"><span typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Scale_of_justice_2.svg" class="mw-file-description"><img src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/0e/Scale_of_justice_2.svg/40px-Scale_of_justice_2.svg.png" decoding="async" width="40" height="41" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/0e/Scale_of_justice_2.svg/60px-Scale_of_justice_2.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/0e/Scale_of_justice_2.svg/80px-Scale_of_justice_2.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="204" data-file-height="208"/></a></span></div> <div class="ivmbox-text"> <p>Hello, Victor Engel. Voting in the <b><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:ACE2018" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:ACE2018">2018 Arbitration Committee elections</a></b> is now open until 23.59 on Sunday, 3 December. All users who registered an account before Sunday, 28 October 2018, made at least 150 mainspace edits before Thursday, 1 November 2018 and are not currently blocked are eligible to vote. Users with alternate accounts may only vote once. </p><p>The <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:ARBCOM" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:ARBCOM">Arbitration Committee</a> is the panel of editors responsible for conducting the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration">Wikipedia arbitration process</a>. It has the authority to impose binding solutions to disputes between editors, primarily for serious conduct disputes the community has been unable to resolve. This includes the authority to impose <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:BAN" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:BAN">site bans</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:TBAN" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:TBAN">topic bans</a>, editing restrictions, and other measures needed to maintain our editing environment. The <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Policy" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Policy">arbitration policy</a> describes the Committee's roles and responsibilities in greater detail. </p><p>If you wish to participate in the 2018 election, please review <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration_Committee_Elections_December_2018/Candidates" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration Committee Elections December 2018/Candidates">the candidates</a> and submit your choices on the <b><a href="/wiki/Special:SecurePoll/vote/710" title="Special:SecurePoll/vote/710">voting page</a></b>. <a href="/wiki/User:MediaWiki_message_delivery" title="User:MediaWiki message delivery">MediaWiki message delivery</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:MediaWiki_message_delivery" title="User talk:MediaWiki message delivery">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Victor_Engel#c-MediaWiki_message_delivery-2018-11-19T18:42:00.000Z-ArbCom_2018_election_voter_message" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:42, 19 November 2018 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-MediaWiki_message_delivery-2018-11-19T18:42:00.000Z-ArbCom_2018_election_voter_message"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-MediaWiki_message_delivery-2018-11-19T18:42:00.000Z-ArbCom_2018_election_voter_message"></span> </p> </div> </div> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="ArbCom_2024_Elections_voter_message" data-mw-thread-id="h-ArbCom_2024_Elections_voter_message-20241119000400"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-ArbCom_2024_Elections_voter_message-20241119000400"></span>ArbCom 2024 Elections voter message<span data-mw-comment-end="h-ArbCom_2024_Elections_voter_message-20241119000400"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Victor_Engel&action=edit&section=23" title="Edit section: ArbCom 2024 Elections voter message"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <div class="ivmbox" style="margin-bottom: 1em; border: 1px solid #a2a9b1; background-color: #fdf2d5; padding: 0.5em; display: flex; align-items: center;"> <div class="ivmbox-image noresize" style="padding-left:1px; padding-right:0.5em;"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-MediaWiki_message_delivery-20241119000400-ArbCom_2024_Elections_voter_message"></span><span typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Scale_of_justice_2.svg" class="mw-file-description"><img src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/0e/Scale_of_justice_2.svg/40px-Scale_of_justice_2.svg.png" decoding="async" width="40" height="41" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/0e/Scale_of_justice_2.svg/60px-Scale_of_justice_2.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/0e/Scale_of_justice_2.svg/80px-Scale_of_justice_2.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="204" data-file-height="208"/></a></span></div> <div class="ivmbox-text"> <p>Hello! Voting in the <b><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:ACE2024" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:ACE2024">2024 Arbitration Committee elections</a></b> is now open until 23:59 (UTC) on Monday, 2 December 2024. All <b><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration_Committee_Elections_December_2024#Election_timeline" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration Committee Elections December 2024">eligible users</a></b> are allowed to vote. Users with alternate accounts may only vote once. </p><p>The <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:ARBCOM" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:ARBCOM">Arbitration Committee</a> is the panel of editors responsible for conducting the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration">Wikipedia arbitration process</a>. It has the authority to impose binding solutions to disputes between editors, primarily for serious conduct disputes the community has been unable to resolve. This includes the authority to impose <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:BAN" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:BAN">site bans</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:TBAN" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:TBAN">topic bans</a>, editing restrictions, and other measures needed to maintain our editing environment. The <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Policy" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Policy">arbitration policy</a> describes the Committee's roles and responsibilities in greater detail. </p><p>If you wish to participate in the 2024 election, please review <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration_Committee_Elections_December_2024/Candidates" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration Committee Elections December 2024/Candidates">the candidates</a> and submit your choices on the <b><a href="/wiki/Special:SecurePoll/vote/813" title="Special:SecurePoll/vote/813">voting page</a></b>. If you no longer wish to receive these messages, you may add <code>{{<a href="/wiki/Template:NoACEMM" class="mw-redirect" title="Template:NoACEMM">NoACEMM</a>}}</code> to your user talk page. <small><a href="/wiki/User:MediaWiki_message_delivery" title="User:MediaWiki message delivery">MediaWiki message delivery</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:MediaWiki_message_delivery" title="User talk:MediaWiki message delivery">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Victor_Engel#c-MediaWiki_message_delivery-20241119000400-ArbCom_2024_Elections_voter_message" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:04, 19 November 2024 (UTC)</a></small><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-MediaWiki_message_delivery-20241119000400-ArbCom_2024_Elections_voter_message"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-MediaWiki_message_delivery-20241119000400-ArbCom_2024_Elections_voter_message"></span> </p> </div> </div>    </div><noscript><img src="https://login.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:CentralAutoLogin/start?type=1x1" alt="" width="1" height="1" style="border: none; position: absolute;"></noscript> <div class="printfooter" data-nosnippet="">Retrieved from "<a dir="ltr" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Victor_Engel&oldid=1258257631">https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Victor_Engel&oldid=1258257631</a>"</div></div> <div id="catlinks" class="catlinks catlinks-allhidden" data-mw="interface"></div> </div> </main> </div> <div class="mw-footer-container"> <footer id="footer" class="mw-footer" > <ul id="footer-info"> <li id="footer-info-lastmod"> This page was last edited on 19 November 2024, at 00:04<span class="anonymous-show"> (UTC)</span>.</li> <li id="footer-info-copyright">Text is available under the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Text_of_the_Creative_Commons_Attribution-ShareAlike_4.0_International_License" title="Wikipedia:Text of the Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike 4.0 International License">Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike 4.0 License</a>; additional terms may apply. By using this site, you agree to the <a href="https://foundation.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:MyLanguage/Policy:Terms_of_Use" class="extiw" title="foundation:Special:MyLanguage/Policy:Terms of Use">Terms of Use</a> and <a href="https://foundation.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:MyLanguage/Policy:Privacy_policy" class="extiw" title="foundation:Special:MyLanguage/Policy:Privacy policy">Privacy Policy</a>. Wikipedia® is a registered trademark of the <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://wikimediafoundation.org/">Wikimedia Foundation, Inc.</a>, a non-profit organization.</li> </ul> <ul id="footer-places"> <li id="footer-places-privacy"><a href="https://foundation.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:MyLanguage/Policy:Privacy_policy">Privacy policy</a></li> <li id="footer-places-about"><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:About">About Wikipedia</a></li> <li id="footer-places-disclaimers"><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:General_disclaimer">Disclaimers</a></li> <li id="footer-places-contact"><a href="//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Contact_us">Contact Wikipedia</a></li> <li id="footer-places-wm-codeofconduct"><a href="https://foundation.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:MyLanguage/Policy:Universal_Code_of_Conduct">Code of Conduct</a></li> <li id="footer-places-developers"><a href="https://developer.wikimedia.org">Developers</a></li> <li id="footer-places-statslink"><a href="https://stats.wikimedia.org/#/en.wikipedia.org">Statistics</a></li> <li id="footer-places-cookiestatement"><a href="https://foundation.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:MyLanguage/Policy:Cookie_statement">Cookie statement</a></li> <li id="footer-places-mobileview"><a href="//en.m.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Victor_Engel&mobileaction=toggle_view_mobile" class="noprint stopMobileRedirectToggle">Mobile view</a></li> </ul> <ul id="footer-icons" class="noprint"> <li id="footer-copyrightico"><a href="https://wikimediafoundation.org/" class="cdx-button cdx-button--fake-button cdx-button--size-large cdx-button--fake-button--enabled"><img src="/static/images/footer/wikimedia-button.svg" width="84" height="29" alt="Wikimedia Foundation" loading="lazy"></a></li> <li id="footer-poweredbyico"><a href="https://www.mediawiki.org/" class="cdx-button cdx-button--fake-button cdx-button--size-large cdx-button--fake-button--enabled"><img src="/w/resources/assets/poweredby_mediawiki.svg" alt="Powered by MediaWiki" width="88" height="31" loading="lazy"></a></li> </ul> </footer> </div> </div> </div> <div class="vector-settings" id="p-dock-bottom"> <ul></ul> </div><script>(RLQ=window.RLQ||[]).push(function(){mw.config.set({"wgHostname":"mw-web.codfw.main-694cf4987f-jqmkk","wgBackendResponseTime":215,"wgDiscussionToolsPageThreads":[{"headingLevel":2,"name":"h-Fabartus-2006-12-19T02:45:00.000Z","type":"heading","level":0,"id":"h-Belated_welcome-2006-12-19T02:45:00.000Z","replies":[{"timestamp":"2006-12-19T02:45:00.000Z","author":"Fabartus","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Fabartus-2006-12-19T02:45:00.000Z-Belated_welcome","replies":[],"displayName":"Fra"}]},{"headingLevel":2,"name":"h-Fabartus-2006-12-19T02:44:00.000Z","type":"heading","level":0,"id":"h-Belated_welcome,_and_Thanks_for_the_note_on_Fabartus-2006-12-19T02:44:00.000Z","replies":[{"timestamp":"2006-12-19T02:44:00.000Z","author":"Fabartus","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Fabartus-2006-12-19T02:44:00.000Z-Belated_welcome,_and_Thanks_for_the_note_on_Fabartus","replies":[],"displayName":"Fra"}]},{"headingLevel":2,"name":"h-Robert_A_West-2006-12-26T19:39:00.000Z","type":"heading","level":0,"id":"h-Wholesale_deletion?-2006-12-26T19:39:00.000Z","replies":[{"timestamp":"2006-12-26T20:23:00.000Z","author":"Robert A West","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Robert_A_West-2006-12-26T20:23:00.000Z-Wholesale_deletion?","replies":[{"timestamp":"2006-12-26T22:10:00.000Z","author":"Victor Engel","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Victor_Engel-2006-12-26T22:10:00.000Z-Robert_A_West-2006-12-26T20:23:00.000Z","replies":[{"timestamp":"2006-12-26T22:21:00.000Z","author":"Robert A West","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Robert_A_West-2006-12-26T22:21:00.000Z-Victor_Engel-2006-12-26T22:10:00.000Z","replies":[{"timestamp":"2006-12-26T23:55:00.000Z","author":"Victor Engel","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Victor_Engel-2006-12-26T23:55:00.000Z-Robert_A_West-2006-12-26T22:21:00.000Z","replies":[]},{"timestamp":"2006-12-26T19:39:00.000Z","author":"Robert A West","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Robert_A_West-2006-12-26T19:39:00.000Z-Robert_A_West-2006-12-26T22:21:00.000Z","replies":[],"displayName":"Robert A.West"}],"displayName":"Robert A.West"}]}],"displayName":"Robert A.West"}]},{"headingLevel":2,"name":"h-Victor_Engel-2007-01-08T01:06:00.000Z","type":"heading","level":0,"id":"h-Digital_Photography_edit_undone-2007-01-08T01:06:00.000Z","replies":[{"timestamp":"2007-01-08T01:06:00.000Z","author":"Victor Engel","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Victor_Engel-2007-01-08T01:06:00.000Z-Digital_Photography_edit_undone","replies":[{"timestamp":"2007-01-08T03:53:00.000Z","author":"Mactographer","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Mactographer-2007-01-08T03:53:00.000Z-Victor_Engel-2007-01-08T01:06:00.000Z","replies":[{"timestamp":"2007-01-08T05:58:00.000Z","author":"Victor Engel","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Victor_Engel-2007-01-08T05:58:00.000Z-Mactographer-2007-01-08T03:53:00.000Z","replies":[]}]}]}]},{"headingLevel":2,"name":"h-LivingBot-2011-03-14T21:19:00.000Z","type":"heading","level":0,"id":"h-Notification:_changes_to_\"Mark_my_edits_as_minor_by_default\"_preference-2011-03-14T21:19:00.000Z","replies":[{"timestamp":"2011-03-14T21:19:00.000Z","author":"LivingBot","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-LivingBot-2011-03-14T21:19:00.000Z-Notification:_changes_to_\"Mark_my_edits_as_minor_by_default\"_preference","replies":[]}]},{"headingLevel":2,"name":"h-Mfield-2011-04-07T04:18:00.000Z","type":"heading","level":0,"id":"h-Hi-2011-04-07T04:18:00.000Z","replies":[{"timestamp":"2011-04-07T04:18:00.000Z","author":"Mfield","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Mfield-2011-04-07T04:18:00.000Z-Hi","replies":[{"timestamp":"2011-04-07T15:37:00.000Z","author":"Victor Engel","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Victor_Engel-2011-04-07T15:37:00.000Z-Mfield-2011-04-07T04:18:00.000Z","replies":[]}]}]},{"headingLevel":2,"name":"h-Timl2k4-2011-06-20T22:08:00.000Z","type":"heading","level":0,"id":"h-Edit_conflict_at_Eclipse_cycle-2011-06-20T22:08:00.000Z","replies":[{"timestamp":"2011-06-20T22:08:00.000Z","author":"Timl2k4","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Timl2k4-2011-06-20T22:08:00.000Z-Edit_conflict_at_Eclipse_cycle","replies":[{"timestamp":"2011-06-21T19:53:00.000Z","author":"Victor Engel","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Victor_Engel-2011-06-21T19:53:00.000Z-Timl2k4-2011-06-20T22:08:00.000Z","replies":[]}],"displayName":"TimL"}]},{"headingLevel":2,"name":"h-Timl2k4-2011-07-22T22:03:00.000Z","type":"heading","level":0,"id":"h-The_Problem_with_the_Octaeteris-2011-07-22T22:03:00.000Z","replies":[{"timestamp":"2011-07-22T22:03:00.000Z","author":"Timl2k4","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Timl2k4-2011-07-22T22:03:00.000Z-The_Problem_with_the_Octaeteris","replies":[{"timestamp":"2011-07-22T22:47:00.000Z","author":"Victor Engel","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Victor_Engel-2011-07-22T22:47:00.000Z-Timl2k4-2011-07-22T22:03:00.000Z","replies":[{"timestamp":"2011-07-22T22:57:00.000Z","author":"Timl2k4","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Timl2k4-2011-07-22T22:57:00.000Z-Victor_Engel-2011-07-22T22:47:00.000Z","replies":[{"timestamp":"2011-07-22T23:13:00.000Z","author":"Victor Engel","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Victor_Engel-2011-07-22T23:13:00.000Z-Timl2k4-2011-07-22T22:57:00.000Z","replies":[{"timestamp":"2011-07-22T23:20:00.000Z","author":"Timl2k4","type":"comment","level":5,"id":"c-Timl2k4-2011-07-22T23:20:00.000Z-Victor_Engel-2011-07-22T23:13:00.000Z","replies":[],"displayName":"TimL"}]}],"displayName":"TimL"}]}],"displayName":"TimL"}]},{"headingLevel":2,"name":"h-Victor_Engel-2011-07-26T18:57:00.000Z","type":"heading","level":0,"id":"h-Math_vs._Science-2011-07-26T18:57:00.000Z","replies":[{"timestamp":"2011-07-26T18:57:00.000Z","author":"Victor Engel","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Victor_Engel-2011-07-26T18:57:00.000Z-Math_vs._Science","replies":[{"timestamp":"2011-07-26T19:32:00.000Z","author":"Timl2k4","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Timl2k4-2011-07-26T19:32:00.000Z-Victor_Engel-2011-07-26T18:57:00.000Z","replies":[],"displayName":"TimL"},{"timestamp":"2011-07-26T20:58:00.000Z","author":"Timl2k4","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Timl2k4-2011-07-26T20:58:00.000Z-Victor_Engel-2011-07-26T18:57:00.000Z","replies":[],"displayName":"TimL"}]}]},{"headingLevel":2,"name":"h-ArticlesForCreationBot-2012-03-08T21:32:00.000Z","type":"heading","level":0,"id":"h-Your_article_has_been_moved_to_AfC_space-2012-03-08T21:32:00.000Z","replies":[{"timestamp":"2012-03-08T21:32:00.000Z","author":"ArticlesForCreationBot","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-ArticlesForCreationBot-2012-03-08T21:32:00.000Z-Your_article_has_been_moved_to_AfC_space","replies":[]}]},{"headingLevel":2,"name":"h-Happysailor-2012-03-10T14:00:00.000Z","type":"heading","level":0,"id":"h-Your_submission_at_Articles_for_creation-2012-03-10T14:00:00.000Z","replies":[{"timestamp":"2012-03-10T14:00:00.000Z","author":"Happysailor","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Happysailor-2012-03-10T14:00:00.000Z-Your_submission_at_Articles_for_creation","replies":[]}]},{"headingLevel":2,"name":"h-","type":"heading","level":0,"id":"h-Editing_interface","replies":[]},{"headingLevel":2,"name":"h-VQuakr-2012-03-13T06:07:00.000Z","type":"heading","level":0,"id":"h-Zenfolio-2012-03-13T06:07:00.000Z","replies":[{"timestamp":"2012-03-13T06:07:00.000Z","author":"VQuakr","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-VQuakr-2012-03-13T06:07:00.000Z-Zenfolio","replies":[{"timestamp":"2012-03-13T14:50:00.000Z","author":"Victor Engel","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Victor_Engel-2012-03-13T14:50:00.000Z-VQuakr-2012-03-13T06:07:00.000Z","replies":[]}]},{"timestamp":"2012-03-13T15:12:00.000Z","author":"Victor Engel","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Victor_Engel-2012-03-13T15:12:00.000Z-Zenfolio","replies":[]}]},{"headingLevel":2,"name":"h-Hallows_AG-2012-03-13T19:22:00.000Z","type":"heading","level":0,"id":"h-Your_submission_at_Articles_for_creation_2-2012-03-13T19:22:00.000Z","replies":[{"timestamp":"2012-03-13T19:22:00.000Z","author":"Hallows AG","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Hallows_AG-2012-03-13T19:22:00.000Z-Your_submission_at_Articles_for_creation_2","replies":[],"displayName":"Hallows"}]},{"headingLevel":2,"name":"h-Hallows_AG-2012-03-19T21:11:00.000Z","type":"heading","level":0,"id":"h-Talkback-2012-03-19T21:11:00.000Z","replies":[{"timestamp":"2012-03-19T21:11:00.000Z","author":"Hallows AG","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Hallows_AG-2012-03-19T21:11:00.000Z-Talkback","replies":[]},{"timestamp":"2012-03-19T21:11:00.000Z","author":"Hallows AG","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Hallows_AG-2012-03-19T21:11:00.000Z-Talkback-1","replies":[],"displayName":"Hallows Aktiengesellschaft"}]},{"headingLevel":2,"name":"h-Hallows_AG-2012-03-20T11:41:00.000Z","type":"heading","level":0,"id":"h-Speedy_deletion_nomination_of_Zenfolio-2012-03-20T11:41:00.000Z","replies":[{"timestamp":"2012-03-20T11:41:00.000Z","author":"Hallows AG","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Hallows_AG-2012-03-20T11:41:00.000Z-Speedy_deletion_nomination_of_Zenfolio","replies":[],"displayName":"Hallows Aktiengesellschaft"}]},{"headingLevel":2,"name":"h-Victor_Engel-2012-03-21T16:40:00.000Z","type":"heading","level":0,"id":"h-Zenfolio_article_deleted?-2012-03-21T16:40:00.000Z","replies":[{"timestamp":"2012-03-21T16:40:00.000Z","author":"Victor Engel","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Victor_Engel-2012-03-21T16:40:00.000Z-Zenfolio_article_deleted?","replies":[{"timestamp":"2012-03-21T17:55:00.000Z","author":"Hghyux","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Hghyux-2012-03-21T17:55:00.000Z-Victor_Engel-2012-03-21T16:40:00.000Z","replies":[{"timestamp":"2012-03-21T18:40:00.000Z","author":"Victor Engel","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Victor_Engel-2012-03-21T18:40:00.000Z-Hghyux-2012-03-21T17:55:00.000Z","replies":[{"timestamp":"2012-03-22T21:33:00.000Z","author":"Hghyux","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Hghyux-2012-03-22T21:33:00.000Z-Victor_Engel-2012-03-21T18:40:00.000Z","replies":[{"timestamp":"2012-03-24T02:07:00.000Z","author":"Victor Engel","type":"comment","level":5,"id":"c-Victor_Engel-2012-03-24T02:07:00.000Z-Hghyux-2012-03-22T21:33:00.000Z","replies":[]}]}]}]},{"timestamp":"2012-03-21T20:12:00.000Z","author":"Skier Dude","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Skier_Dude-2012-03-21T20:12:00.000Z-Victor_Engel-2012-03-21T16:40:00.000Z","replies":[{"timestamp":"2012-03-21T20:31:00.000Z","author":"Victor Engel","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Victor_Engel-2012-03-21T20:31:00.000Z-Skier_Dude-2012-03-21T20:12:00.000Z","replies":[{"timestamp":"2012-03-22T01:42:00.000Z","author":"VQuakr","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-VQuakr-2012-03-22T01:42:00.000Z-Victor_Engel-2012-03-21T20:31:00.000Z","replies":[{"timestamp":"2012-03-22T03:39:00.000Z","author":"Victor Engel","type":"comment","level":5,"id":"c-Victor_Engel-2012-03-22T03:39:00.000Z-VQuakr-2012-03-22T01:42:00.000Z","replies":[{"timestamp":"2012-03-24T04:33:00.000Z","author":"VQuakr","type":"comment","level":6,"id":"c-VQuakr-2012-03-24T04:33:00.000Z-Victor_Engel-2012-03-22T03:39:00.000Z","replies":[{"timestamp":"2012-03-31T02:45:00.000Z","author":"Victor Engel","type":"comment","level":7,"id":"c-Victor_Engel-2012-03-31T02:45:00.000Z-VQuakr-2012-03-24T04:33:00.000Z","replies":[]}]}]}]}]}]}]}]},{"headingLevel":2,"name":"h-MediaWiki_message_delivery-2015-11-23T08:51:00.000Z","type":"heading","level":0,"id":"h-ArbCom_elections_are_now_open!-2015-11-23T08:51:00.000Z","replies":[{"timestamp":"2015-11-23T08:51:00.000Z","author":"MediaWiki message delivery","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-MediaWiki_message_delivery-2015-11-23T08:51:00.000Z-ArbCom_elections_are_now_open!","replies":[]}]},{"headingLevel":2,"name":"h-Mdann52-2016-11-21T22:08:00.000Z","type":"heading","level":0,"id":"h-ArbCom_Elections_2016:_Voting_now_open!-2016-11-21T22:08:00.000Z","replies":[{"timestamp":"2016-11-21T22:08:00.000Z","author":"Mdann52","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Mdann52-2016-11-21T22:08:00.000Z-ArbCom_Elections_2016:_Voting_now_open!","replies":[]}]},{"headingLevel":2,"name":"h-MediaWiki_message_delivery-2016-11-21T22:08:00.000Z","type":"heading","level":0,"id":"h-ArbCom_Elections_2016:_Voting_now_open!_2-2016-11-21T22:08:00.000Z","replies":[{"timestamp":"2016-11-21T22:08:00.000Z","author":"MediaWiki message delivery","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-MediaWiki_message_delivery-2016-11-21T22:08:00.000Z-ArbCom_Elections_2016:_Voting_now_open!_2","replies":[]}]},{"headingLevel":2,"name":"h-MediaWiki_message_delivery-2017-12-03T18:42:00.000Z","type":"heading","level":0,"id":"h-ArbCom_2017_election_voter_message-2017-12-03T18:42:00.000Z","replies":[{"timestamp":"2017-12-03T18:42:00.000Z","author":"MediaWiki message delivery","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-MediaWiki_message_delivery-2017-12-03T18:42:00.000Z-ArbCom_2017_election_voter_message","replies":[]}]},{"headingLevel":2,"name":"h-MediaWiki_message_delivery-2018-11-19T18:42:00.000Z","type":"heading","level":0,"id":"h-ArbCom_2018_election_voter_message-2018-11-19T18:42:00.000Z","replies":[{"timestamp":"2018-11-19T18:42:00.000Z","author":"MediaWiki message delivery","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-MediaWiki_message_delivery-2018-11-19T18:42:00.000Z-ArbCom_2018_election_voter_message","replies":[]}]},{"headingLevel":2,"name":"h-MediaWiki_message_delivery-20241119000400","type":"heading","level":0,"id":"h-ArbCom_2024_Elections_voter_message-20241119000400","replies":[{"timestamp":"20241119000400","author":"MediaWiki message delivery","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-MediaWiki_message_delivery-20241119000400-ArbCom_2024_Elections_voter_message","replies":[]}]}],"wgPageParseReport":{"discussiontools":{"limitreport-timeusage":"0.037"},"limitreport":{"cputime":"0.173","walltime":"0.235","ppvisitednodes":{"value":1115,"limit":1000000},"postexpandincludesize":{"value":13550,"limit":2097152},"templateargumentsize":{"value":6976,"limit":2097152},"expansiondepth":{"value":12,"limit":100},"expensivefunctioncount":{"value":1,"limit":500},"unstrip-depth":{"value":0,"limit":20},"unstrip-size":{"value":6319,"limit":5000000},"entityaccesscount":{"value":0,"limit":400},"timingprofile":["100.00% 100.957 1 -total"," 27.28% 27.545 1 Template:Moved_discussion_from"," 22.97% 23.189 1 Template:Hmbox"," 18.46% 18.637 4 Template:Ivmbox"," 16.46% 16.619 1 Template:Quote_box"," 13.47% 13.600 3 Template:Space"," 9.56% 9.655 12 Template:Ifsubst"," 9.33% 9.422 1 Template:Format_linkr"," 8.82% 8.909 1 Template:Talkback"," 7.82% 7.895 1 Template:Replace"]},"scribunto":{"limitreport-timeusage":{"value":"0.009","limit":"10.000"},"limitreport-memusage":{"value":960266,"limit":52428800}},"cachereport":{"origin":"mw-web.codfw.main-6b786b4b4d-729ml","timestamp":"20241119035646","ttl":864000,"transientcontent":true}}});});</script> </body> </html>