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class="fl-module-content fl-node-content"> <h1 class="fl-heading"> <span class="fl-heading-text">Converting SaaS Trials from Organic Search with Ahrefs CMO Tim Soulo</span> </h1> </div> </div> <div class="fl-module fl-module-photo fl-node-5d966bd137ac2" data-node="5d966bd137ac2"> <div class="fl-module-content fl-node-content"> <div class="fl-photo fl-photo-align-center" itemscope itemtype="https://schema.org/ImageObject"> <div class="fl-photo-content fl-photo-img-jpg"> <img loading="lazy" decoding="async" class="fl-photo-img wp-image-23090 size-full" src="https://www.ericschwartzman.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/01/tim-soulo.jpg" alt="tim-soulo" itemprop="image" height="400" width="661" title="tim-soulo" srcset="https://www.ericschwartzman.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/01/tim-soulo.jpg 661w, https://www.ericschwartzman.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/01/tim-soulo-300x182.jpg 300w" sizes="auto, (max-width: 661px) 100vw, 661px" /> </div> <div class="fl-photo-caption fl-photo-caption-below" itemprop="caption"></div> </div> </div> </div> <div class="fl-module fl-module-fl-post-info fl-node-5d966456a5881 single-blog-meta" data-node="5d966456a5881"> <div class="fl-module-content fl-node-content"> <span class="fl-post-info-author"><a href="https://www.ericschwartzman.com/author/eschwartzman/">Eric Schwartzman</a></span> </div> </div> <div class="fl-module fl-module-fl-author-bio fl-node-5d96701b8898c blog-post-meta-author" data-node="5d96701b8898c"> <div class="fl-module-content fl-node-content"> <div class="fl-author-bio-thumb"> <img alt='' src='https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/67aea78ae8f7e547b6b7c230126f3787?s=100&d=mm&r=g' srcset='https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/67aea78ae8f7e547b6b7c230126f3787?s=200&d=mm&r=g 2x' class='avatar avatar-100 photo' height='100' width='100' loading='lazy' decoding='async'/></div> <div class="fl-author-bio-content"> <h3 class="fl-author-bio-name">Eric Schwartzman</h3> <div class="fl-author-bio-text">Eric Schwartzman is the principal consult at Schwartzman & Associates, a boutique public relations, SEO, and content marketing agency. He is also the author of 2 best selling books, an international keynote speaker, and a contributor at Adweek, Fast Company, TechCrunch, Yale Climate Connections, The Healdsburg Tribune, and many others.</div> </div> </div> </div> <div class="fl-module fl-module-fl-post-content fl-node-5d966456a587e blog-post-content" data-node="5d966456a587e"> <div class="fl-module-content fl-node-content"> <iframe loading="lazy" src="https://player.blubrry.com/?media_url=https%3A%2F%2Fmedia.blubrry.com%2Fb2b_lead_gen_podcast%2Fins.blubrry.com%2Fb2b_lead_gen_podcast%2FTim_Soulo_Full_Episode.mp3&podcast_link=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ericschwartzman.com%2Fahrefs-tim-soulo%2F#mode-Light&border-000000&progress-000000" scrolling="no" width="100%" height="165" frameborder="0" id="blubrryplayer-1" class="blubrryplayer" title="Blubrry Podcast Player"></iframe><p class="powerpress_links powerpress_links_mp3" style="margin-bottom: 1px !important;">Podcast: <a href="https://media.blubrry.com/b2b_lead_gen_podcast/ins.blubrry.com/b2b_lead_gen_podcast/Tim_Soulo_Full_Episode.mp3" class="powerpress_link_pinw" target="_blank" title="Play in new window" onclick="return powerpress_pinw('https://www.ericschwartzman.com/?powerpress_pinw=23085-podcast');" rel="nofollow">Play in new window</a> | <a href="https://media.blubrry.com/b2b_lead_gen_podcast/ins.blubrry.com/b2b_lead_gen_podcast/Tim_Soulo_Full_Episode.mp3" class="powerpress_link_d" title="Download" rel="nofollow" download="Tim_Soulo_Full_Episode.mp3">Download</a> (Duration: 40:21 — 37.0MB) | <a href="#" class="powerpress_link_e" title="Embed" onclick="return powerpress_show_embed('23085-podcast');" rel="nofollow">Embed</a></p><p class="powerpress_embed_box" id="powerpress_embed_23085-podcast" style="display: none;"><input id="powerpress_embed_23085-podcast_t" type="text" value="<iframe src="https://player.blubrry.com/?media_url=https%3A%2F%2Fmedia.blubrry.com%2Fb2b_lead_gen_podcast%2Fins.blubrry.com%2Fb2b_lead_gen_podcast%2FTim_Soulo_Full_Episode.mp3&podcast_link=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ericschwartzman.com%2Fahrefs-tim-soulo%2F#mode-Light&border-000000&progress-000000" scrolling="no" width="100%" height="165" frameborder="0" id="blubrryplayer-2" class="blubrryplayer" title="Blubrry Podcast Player"></iframe>" onclick="javascript: this.select();" onfocus="javascript: this.select();" style="width: 70%;" readOnly></p><p class="powerpress_links powerpress_subscribe_links">Subscribe: <a href="https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/b2b-lead-gen-podcast/id1506667247?mt=2&ls=1" class="powerpress_link_subscribe powerpress_link_subscribe_itunes" target="_blank" title="Subscribe on Apple Podcasts" rel="nofollow">Apple Podcasts</a> | <a href="https://open.spotify.com/show/0JgwlRUHejTS7e3DKelY8j" class="powerpress_link_subscribe powerpress_link_subscribe_spotify" target="_blank" title="Subscribe on Spotify" rel="nofollow">Spotify</a> | <a href="https://www.ericschwartzman.com/category/b2blg/feed/" class="powerpress_link_subscribe powerpress_link_subscribe_rss" target="_blank" title="Subscribe via RSS" rel="nofollow">RSS</a> | <a href="https://www.ericschwartzman.com/b2b-lead-gen-podcast-subscriber/" class="powerpress_link_subscribe powerpress_link_subscribe_more" target="_blank" title="Subscribe" rel="nofollow">Subscribe</a></p> <hr class="wp-block-separator is-style-wide"/> <p><strong><a aria-label="undefined (opens in a new tab)" href="https://twitter.com/timsoulo" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener nofollow">Tim Soulo</a> is CMO at<a href="https://ahrefs.com/"> </a><a aria-label="undefined (opens in a new tab)" href="https://ahrefs.com/" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener nofollow">Ahrefs</a>, an industry-leading keyword research tool. With nearly 10 years of experience in SEO and digital marketing, Tim speaks at conferences around the world and publishes content on the <a aria-label="undefined (opens in a new tab)" href="https://ahrefs.com/blog/" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener nofollow">Ahrefs Blog</a>. </strong></p> <p>He’s also authored SEO research studies and digital marketing guides. In this interview, we discuss AI, domain authority, and conversion rate optimization.</p> <hr class="wp-block-separator has-text-color has-background has-cyan-bluish-gray-background-color has-cyan-bluish-gray-color is-style-wide"/> <figure class="wp-block-image size-large"><a href="/essentialskills/"><img loading="lazy" decoding="async" width="1024" height="251" src="https://www.ericschwartzman.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/01/Essential-Guide-Promo-1-1024x251.png" alt="" class="wp-image-23137" srcset="https://www.ericschwartzman.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/01/Essential-Guide-Promo-1-1024x251.png 1024w, https://www.ericschwartzman.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/01/Essential-Guide-Promo-1-300x74.png 300w, https://www.ericschwartzman.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/01/Essential-Guide-Promo-1-768x189.png 768w, https://www.ericschwartzman.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/01/Essential-Guide-Promo-1.png 1466w" sizes="auto, (max-width: 1024px) 100vw, 1024px" /></a></figure> <hr class="wp-block-separator has-text-color has-background has-cyan-bluish-gray-background-color has-cyan-bluish-gray-color is-style-wide"/> <p>Ahref’s has been upgrading their hardware and investing in AI, because “it really does give you and edge.” As big data processing gets easier, search engines will get “smarter and smarter, being able to factor in more ranking factors and blend them in a more sophisticated way. </p> <p>So basically, the word ‘more’ is what AI means to SEO.” While everything will be more complicated, hopefully, it will be more useful, too. But Ahrefs needs more processing power, which means more hardware on the backend, to get there.</p> <p>While neural networks that make decisions in specific scenarios aren’t that intelligent, Tim doesn’t see that as a limitation for Google when it comes to applying AI to its search algorithm. On the other hand, the raw amount of data that must be processed is a real challenge. </p> <figure class="wp-block-embed-youtube wp-block-embed is-type-video is-provider-youtube wp-embed-aspect-16-9 wp-has-aspect-ratio"><div class="wp-block-embed__wrapper"> <iframe loading="lazy" title="Ahrefs CMO Tim Soulo on Organic SEO" width="500" height="281" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/ZgyZzIPrIhc?feature=oembed" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture; web-share" referrerpolicy="strict-origin-when-cross-origin" allowfullscreen></iframe> </div></figure> <p>Ahrefs is currently working on a metric that calculates how hard it would be to rank for a search query based on how many backlinks the top ten pages have. This has to encompass hundreds of millions of queries, which is hard enough to factor for backlinks. The formula demands exponentially more processing power.</p> <p>In their <a href="https://static.googleusercontent.com/media/guidelines.raterhub.com/en//searchqualityevaluatorguidelines.pdf">page quality rater’s guidelines</a>, Google uses “Expertise, Authoritativeness, and Trustworthiness” to rate the quality of webpages. Tim says that no one’s quite sure about how Google exactly defines “authority”, but it’s probably not as simple as the number of backlinks a given page gets. </p> <figure class="wp-block-embed-youtube wp-block-embed is-type-video is-provider-youtube wp-embed-aspect-16-9 wp-has-aspect-ratio"><div class="wp-block-embed__wrapper"> <iframe loading="lazy" title="Ahrefs CMO Tim Soulo on Organic SEO" width="500" height="281" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/ZgyZzIPrIhc?feature=oembed" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture; web-share" referrerpolicy="strict-origin-when-cross-origin" allowfullscreen></iframe> </div></figure> <p>Tim speculates that the algorithms also factor in how many times authors are mentioned on other pages, or how many people search their names, follow or write about them on social networks. But no one knows how Google prioritizes these signals.</p> <p>In terms of which online outlets SEOs should be pitching, Tim says, “it boils down to what you have to say, and is the publication that you want to get a link from interested in that?” </p> <p>Regarding domain authority, Tim reflects that Ahrefs’ approach is somewhat removed from that concept, stating that the rank boost you get from backlinks doesn’t come from domain authority, but from page authority. For instance, if you publish at TechCrunch and nobody reads or links to it, that page will have very low authority. </p> <figure class="wp-block-embed-youtube wp-block-embed is-type-video is-provider-youtube wp-embed-aspect-16-9 wp-has-aspect-ratio"><div class="wp-block-embed__wrapper"> <iframe loading="lazy" title="SEO: How Has It Changed?" width="500" height="281" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/IZCzBOsdBw8?feature=oembed" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture; web-share" referrerpolicy="strict-origin-when-cross-origin" allowfullscreen></iframe> </div></figure> <p>There are no shortcuts to creating content that withstands the test of time. But consistently valuable content is the goal. Slow and steady wins the race. When it comes to leveraging AI, the lack of regulations around digital privacy in China means they have more data to inform algorithms than we do in the west. So I asked Tim if he thought the Chinese would dominate in AI. For his answer, listen to this podcast on <a href="/ahrefs-tim-soulo">SaaS marketing through SEO</a>.</p> <p>If you want to support this podcast, rate and comment on us at Apple Podcasts <a href="https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/earned-media-hour-with-eric-schwartzman/id1508403705">here</a>. </p> </div> </div> <div class="fl-module fl-module-uabb-social-share fl-node-5ef9733177509 blog-post-social-share share-top" data-node="5ef9733177509"> <div class="fl-module-content fl-node-content"> <div class="uabb-social-share-wrap uabb-social-share-horizontal uabb-ss uabb-ss-column-auto uabb-ss-column-medium- uabb-ss-column-responsive-"> <div class="uabb-social-share-link-wrap"><a class="uabb-social-share-link uabb-social-share-1" href="https://www.facebook.com/sharer.php?u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ericschwartzman.com%2Fahrefs-tim-soulo%2F" target="_blank" onclick="window.open(this.href,'social-share','left=20,top=20,width=500,height=500,toolbar=1,resizable=0');return false;"><div 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</div> <div class="fl-row-content fl-row-fixed-width fl-node-content"> <div class="fl-col-group fl-node-5d82815d62660" data-node="5d82815d62660"> <div class="fl-col fl-node-5d82815d62661" data-node="5d82815d62661"> <div class="fl-col-content fl-node-content"><div class="fl-module fl-module-rich-text fl-node-5d82815d62662" data-node="5d82815d62662"> <div class="fl-module-content fl-node-content"> <div class="fl-rich-text"> <p style="text-align: center;">© 2024 Schwartzman & Associates Inc. 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class="fl-heading-text">Services</span> </h2> </div> </div> <div class="fl-module fl-module-rich-text fl-node-ke0m1iy4fsvd" data-node="ke0m1iy4fsvd"> <div class="fl-module-content fl-node-content"> <div class="fl-rich-text"> <p><span style="display: none;" aria-hidden="true" data-nosnippet="">Schwartzman & Associates offers </span><strong>Digital Marketing</strong> <span style="display: none;" aria-hidden="true" data-nosnippet="">services </span>at the intersection of <strong>SEO</strong>, <strong>Public Relations</strong>, and <strong>Content Marketing</strong><span style="display: none;" aria-hidden="true" data-nosnippet=""> for competitive advantage.</span></p> </div> </div> </div> <div class="fl-col-group fl-node-yth1wug7s340 fl-col-group-nested fl-col-group-equal-height fl-col-group-align-top" data-node="yth1wug7s340"> <div class="fl-col fl-node-1iklj9s27amg fl-col-small" data-node="1iklj9s27amg"> <div class="fl-col-content fl-node-content"><div class="fl-module fl-module-callout 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<li><a href="https://www.ericschwartzman.com/wine-marketing-agency/">Wine SEO</a></li> <li><a href="https://www.ericschwartzman.com/areas-served/">Local SEO</a></li> <li><a href="https://www.ericschwartzman.com/los-angeles-seo/">Los Angeles SEO</a></li> <li><a href="https://www.ericschwartzman.com/new-york-seo-company/">New York SEO</a><br /> <span style="display: none;" aria-hidden="true" data-nosnippet="">consulting services.</span></li> </ul> </div></div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> <div class="fl-col fl-node-6s2g75hcib8w fl-col-small" data-node="6s2g75hcib8w"> <div class="fl-col-content fl-node-content"><div class="fl-module fl-module-callout fl-node-s1ntlx60fezq" data-node="s1ntlx60fezq"> <div class="fl-module-content fl-node-content"> <div class="fl-callout fl-callout-has-icon fl-callout-icon-left-title"> <div class="fl-callout-content"> <h3 class="fl-callout-title"><a href="/public-relations-agency/" target="_self" class="fl-callout-title-link fl-callout-title-text"> <span class="fl-icon"> <i class="fas fa-bullhorn" aria-hidden="true"></i> </span> <span>Public Relations<span style="display:none" aria-hidden="true" data-nosnippet> Agency Services</span></span></a></h3><div class="fl-callout-text-wrap"><div class="fl-callout-text"><p><span style="display: none;" aria-hidden="true" data-nosnippet=""><strong>PR Firm</strong> specializing in:</span></p> <ul> <li><a href="https://www.ericschwartzman.com/digital-pr-consultant/">Digital PR</a></li> <li><a href="https://www.ericschwartzman.com/public-relations-agency/">Product launches</a></li> <li><a href="https://www.ericschwartzman.com/public-relations-agency/">Red carpets</a></li> <li><a href="https://www.ericschwartzman.com/public-relations-agency/">Press release distribution</a></li> <li><a href="https://www.ericschwartzman.com/public-relations-agency/">Reputation/crisis management</a></li> <li><a href="https://www.ericschwartzman.com/public-relations-agency/">Public affairs campaigns</a></li> <li><a href="https://www.ericschwartzman.com/public-relations-agency/">Market research</a></li> </ul> </div></div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> <div class="fl-col fl-node-93ctr6y5bl2s fl-col-small" data-node="93ctr6y5bl2s"> <div class="fl-col-content fl-node-content"><div class="fl-module fl-module-callout fl-node-uxphan8cz3dw" data-node="uxphan8cz3dw"> <div class="fl-module-content fl-node-content"> <div class="fl-callout fl-callout-has-icon fl-callout-icon-left-title"> <div class="fl-callout-content"> <h3 class="fl-callout-title"><a href="/content-marketing-agency/" target="_self" class="fl-callout-title-link fl-callout-title-text"> <span class="fl-icon"> <i class="fas fa-magnet" aria-hidden="true"></i> </span> <span>Content Marketing <span style="display:none" aria-hidden="true" data-nosnippet>Agency</span></span></a></h3><div class="fl-callout-text-wrap"><div class="fl-callout-text"><ul> <li><a href="https://www.ericschwartzman.com/content-marketing-agency/">DTC content marketing</a></li> <li><a href="https://www.ericschwartzman.com/why-b2b-content-marketing-is-important/">B2B content marketing</a></li> <li><a href="https://www.ericschwartzman.com/why-b2b-content-marketing-is-important/">Technology white papers</a></li> <li><a href="https://www.ericschwartzman.com/why-b2b-content-marketing-is-important/">Policy white papers</a></li> <li><a href="https://www.ericschwartzman.com/content-marketing-agency/">Infographic design & production</a></li> <li><a href="https://www.ericschwartzman.com/why-b2b-content-marketing-is-important/">Video production</a></li> <li><a href="https://www.ericschwartzman.com/why-b2b-content-marketing-is-important/">Lead generation strategy</a></li> </ul> </div></div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> <div class="fl-col-group fl-node-q6dxoy3sp8f1 fl-col-group-nested fl-col-group-equal-height fl-col-group-align-top" data-node="q6dxoy3sp8f1"> <div class="fl-col fl-node-37lcvx4qoztd fl-col-small" data-node="37lcvx4qoztd"> <div class="fl-col-content fl-node-content"><div class="fl-module fl-module-callout fl-node-d6q3ngbkua5t" data-node="d6q3ngbkua5t"> <div class="fl-module-content fl-node-content"> <div class="fl-callout fl-callout-has-icon fl-callout-icon-left-title"> <div class="fl-callout-content"> <h3 class="fl-callout-title"><a href="/website-marketing-company/" target="_self" class="fl-callout-title-link fl-callout-title-text"> <span class="fl-icon"> <i class="fi-target" aria-hidden="true"></i> </span> <span>Digital Marketing <span style="display:none" aria-hidden="true" data-nosnippet>Company Consulting</span></span></a></h3><div class="fl-callout-text-wrap"><div class="fl-callout-text"><p><span style="display: none;" aria-hidden="true" data-nosnippet="">Digital marketing agency services for:</span></p> <ul> <li><a 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class="fl-module-content fl-node-content"> <div class="fl-rich-text"> <p>We help clients grow their revenue 2-5x in 6-12 months through digital marketing training, digital marketing campaigns, PR agency services, SEO and content marketing.</p> </div> </div> </div> <div class="fl-col-group fl-node-gr6f2s0huj1a fl-col-group-nested fl-col-group-equal-height fl-col-group-align-top" data-node="gr6f2s0huj1a"> <div class="fl-col fl-node-2ym40j9e3bri fl-col-small" data-node="2ym40j9e3bri"> <div class="fl-col-content fl-node-content"><div class="fl-module fl-module-callout fl-node-rg2v7fb5locz" data-node="rg2v7fb5locz"> <div class="fl-module-content fl-node-content"> <div class="fl-callout fl-callout-has-icon fl-callout-icon-left-title"> <div class="fl-callout-content"> <h3 class="fl-callout-title"><a href="/author/" target="_self" class="fl-callout-title-link fl-callout-title-text"> <span class="fl-icon"> <i class="fi-star" aria-hidden="true"></i> </span> <span><span style="display:none" 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