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id="toc-Current_disputes-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> <li id="toc-Wesean_Student_Federation" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-2"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Wesean_Student_Federation"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">1.1</span> <span>Wesean Student Federation</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">3 comments</span> <ul id="toc-Wesean_Student_Federation-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> <li id="toc-Summary_of_dispute_by_Flyingphoenixchips" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-3"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Summary_of_dispute_by_Flyingphoenixchips"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">1.1.1</span> <span>Summary of dispute by Flyingphoenixchips</span> </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Summary_of_dispute_by_Flyingphoenixchips-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Summary_of_dispute_by_Kautilya3" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-3"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Summary_of_dispute_by_Kautilya3"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">1.1.2</span> <span>Summary of dispute by Kautilya3</span> </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Summary_of_dispute_by_Kautilya3-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Wesean_Student_Federation_discussion" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-3"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Wesean_Student_Federation_discussion"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">1.1.3</span> <span>Wesean Student Federation discussion</span> </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Wesean_Student_Federation_discussion-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Charyapada" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-2"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Charyapada"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">1.2</span> <span>Charyapada</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">6 comments</span> <ul id="toc-Charyapada-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> <li id="toc-Summary_of_dispute_by_CharlesWain" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-3"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Summary_of_dispute_by_CharlesWain"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">1.2.1</span> <span>Summary of dispute by CharlesWain</span> </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Summary_of_dispute_by_CharlesWain-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Charyapada_discussion" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-3"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Charyapada_discussion"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">1.2.2</span> <span>Charyapada discussion</span> </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Charyapada_discussion-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Statement_by_Third_Opinion_editor_Manuductive" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-3"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Statement_by_Third_Opinion_editor_Manuductive"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">1.2.3</span> <span>Statement by Third Opinion editor Manuductive</span> </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Statement_by_Third_Opinion_editor_Manuductive-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Malcolm_Sargent" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-2"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Malcolm_Sargent"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">1.3</span> <span>Malcolm Sargent</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">14 comments</span> <ul id="toc-Malcolm_Sargent-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> <li id="toc-Summary_of_dispute_by_Ssilvers" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-3"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Summary_of_dispute_by_Ssilvers"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">1.3.1</span> <span>Summary of dispute by Ssilvers</span> </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Summary_of_dispute_by_Ssilvers-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Summary_of_dispute_by_Tim_riley" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-3"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Summary_of_dispute_by_Tim_riley"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">1.3.2</span> <span>Summary of dispute by Tim riley</span> </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Summary_of_dispute_by_Tim_riley-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Summary_of_dispute_by_SchroCat" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-3"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Summary_of_dispute_by_SchroCat"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">1.3.3</span> <span>Summary of dispute by SchroCat</span> </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Summary_of_dispute_by_SchroCat-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Malcolm_Sargent_discussion" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-3"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Malcolm_Sargent_discussion"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">1.3.4</span> <span>Malcolm Sargent discussion</span> </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Malcolm_Sargent_discussion-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Zeroth_statement_by_volunteer_(Malcolm_Sargent)" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-3"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Zeroth_statement_by_volunteer_(Malcolm_Sargent)"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">1.3.5</span> <span>Zeroth statement by volunteer (Malcolm Sargent)</span> </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Zeroth_statement_by_volunteer_(Malcolm_Sargent)-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Zeroth_statements_by_editors_(Malcolm_Sargent)" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-3"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Zeroth_statements_by_editors_(Malcolm_Sargent)"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">1.3.6</span> <span>Zeroth statements by editors (Malcolm Sargent)</span> </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Zeroth_statements_by_editors_(Malcolm_Sargent)-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-First_statement_by_moderator_(Malcolm_Sargent)" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-3"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#First_statement_by_moderator_(Malcolm_Sargent)"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">1.3.7</span> <span>First statement by moderator (Malcolm Sargent)</span> </div> </a> <ul id="toc-First_statement_by_moderator_(Malcolm_Sargent)-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-First_statements_by_editors_(Malcolm_Sargent)" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-3"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#First_statements_by_editors_(Malcolm_Sargent)"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">1.3.8</span> <span>First statements by editors (Malcolm Sargent)</span> </div> </a> <ul id="toc-First_statements_by_editors_(Malcolm_Sargent)-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Second_statement_by_moderator_(Malcolm_Sargent)" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-3"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Second_statement_by_moderator_(Malcolm_Sargent)"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">1.3.9</span> <span>Second statement by moderator (Malcolm Sargent)</span> </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Second_statement_by_moderator_(Malcolm_Sargent)-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Second_statements_by_editors_(Malcolm_Sargent)" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-3"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Second_statements_by_editors_(Malcolm_Sargent)"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">1.3.10</span> <span>Second statements by editors (Malcolm Sargent)</span> </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Second_statements_by_editors_(Malcolm_Sargent)-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Third_statement_by_moderator_(Malcolm_Sargent)" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-3"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Third_statement_by_moderator_(Malcolm_Sargent)"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">1.3.11</span> <span>Third statement by moderator (Malcolm Sargent)</span> </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Third_statement_by_moderator_(Malcolm_Sargent)-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Third_statements_by_editors_(Malcolm_Sargent)" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-3"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Third_statements_by_editors_(Malcolm_Sargent)"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">1.3.12</span> <span>Third statements by editors (Malcolm Sargent)</span> </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Third_statements_by_editors_(Malcolm_Sargent)-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Fourth_statement_by_moderator_(Malcolm_Sargent)" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-3"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Fourth_statement_by_moderator_(Malcolm_Sargent)"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">1.3.13</span> <span>Fourth statement by moderator (Malcolm Sargent)</span> </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Fourth_statement_by_moderator_(Malcolm_Sargent)-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Fourth_statements_by_editors_(Malcolm_Sargent)" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-3"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Fourth_statements_by_editors_(Malcolm_Sargent)"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">1.3.14</span> <span>Fourth statements by editors (Malcolm Sargent)</span> </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Fourth_statements_by_editors_(Malcolm_Sargent)-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Taylor_Lorenz" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-2"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Taylor_Lorenz"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">1.4</span> <span>Taylor Lorenz</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">19 comments</span> <ul id="toc-Taylor_Lorenz-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> <li id="toc-First_statement_by_volunteer_(Taylor_Lorenz)" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-3"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#First_statement_by_volunteer_(Taylor_Lorenz)"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">1.4.1</span> <span>First statement by volunteer (Taylor Lorenz)</span> </div> </a> <ul id="toc-First_statement_by_volunteer_(Taylor_Lorenz)-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Taylor_Lorenz_discussion" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-3"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Taylor_Lorenz_discussion"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">1.4.2</span> <span>Taylor Lorenz discussion</span> </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Taylor_Lorenz_discussion-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Aristides_de_Sousa_Mendes" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-2"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Aristides_de_Sousa_Mendes"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">1.5</span> <span>Aristides de Sousa Mendes</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">6 comments</span> <ul id="toc-Aristides_de_Sousa_Mendes-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> <li id="toc-Summary_of_dispute_by_JPratas" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-3"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Summary_of_dispute_by_JPratas"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">1.5.1</span> <span>Summary of dispute by JPratas</span> </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Summary_of_dispute_by_JPratas-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Summary_of_dispute_by_Joséángel006." class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-3"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Summary_of_dispute_by_Joséángel006."> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">1.5.2</span> <span>Summary of dispute by Joséángel006.</span> </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Summary_of_dispute_by_Joséángel006.-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Aristides_de_Sousa_Mendes_discussion" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-3"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Aristides_de_Sousa_Mendes_discussion"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">1.5.3</span> <span>Aristides de Sousa Mendes discussion</span> </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Aristides_de_Sousa_Mendes_discussion-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Zeroth_statement_by_moderator" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-3"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Zeroth_statement_by_moderator"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">1.5.4</span> <span>Zeroth statement by moderator</span> </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Zeroth_statement_by_moderator-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-The_Simpsons_season_36" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-2"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#The_Simpsons_season_36"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">1.6</span> <span>The Simpsons season 36</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">16 comments</span> <ul id="toc-The_Simpsons_season_36-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> <li id="toc-Summary_of_dispute_by_U-Mos" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-3"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Summary_of_dispute_by_U-Mos"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">1.6.1</span> <span>Summary of dispute by U-Mos</span> </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Summary_of_dispute_by_U-Mos-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-The_Simpsons_season_36_discussion" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-3"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#The_Simpsons_season_36_discussion"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">1.6.2</span> <span>The Simpsons season 36 discussion</span> </div> </a> <ul id="toc-The_Simpsons_season_36_discussion-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-First_statement_by_possible_moderator_(Simpsons)" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-3"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#First_statement_by_possible_moderator_(Simpsons)"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">1.6.3</span> <span>First statement by possible moderator (Simpsons)</span> </div> </a> <ul id="toc-First_statement_by_possible_moderator_(Simpsons)-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-First_statements_by_editors_(Simpsons)" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-3"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#First_statements_by_editors_(Simpsons)"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">1.6.4</span> <span>First statements by editors (Simpsons)</span> </div> </a> <ul id="toc-First_statements_by_editors_(Simpsons)-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Second_statement_by_moderator_(Simpsons)" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-3"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Second_statement_by_moderator_(Simpsons)"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">1.6.5</span> <span>Second statement by moderator (Simpsons)</span> </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Second_statement_by_moderator_(Simpsons)-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Second_statements_by_editors_(Simpsons)" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-3"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Second_statements_by_editors_(Simpsons)"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">1.6.6</span> <span>Second statements by editors (Simpsons)</span> </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Second_statements_by_editors_(Simpsons)-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Third_statement_by_moderator_(Simpsons)" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-3"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Third_statement_by_moderator_(Simpsons)"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">1.6.7</span> <span>Third statement by moderator (Simpsons)</span> </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Third_statement_by_moderator_(Simpsons)-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Third_statements_by_editors_(Simpsons)" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-3"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Third_statements_by_editors_(Simpsons)"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">1.6.8</span> <span>Third statements by editors (Simpsons)</span> </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Third_statements_by_editors_(Simpsons)-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Symphony_No._2_(Walton)" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-2"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Symphony_No._2_(Walton)"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">1.7</span> <span>Symphony No. 2 (Walton)</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">5 comments</span> <ul id="toc-Symphony_No._2_(Walton)-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> <li id="toc-Summary_of_dispute_by_Tim_riley_2" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-3"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Summary_of_dispute_by_Tim_riley_2"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">1.7.1</span> <span>Summary of dispute by Tim riley</span> </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Summary_of_dispute_by_Tim_riley_2-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Summary_of_dispute_by_SchroCat_2" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-3"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Summary_of_dispute_by_SchroCat_2"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">1.7.2</span> <span>Summary of dispute by SchroCat</span> </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Summary_of_dispute_by_SchroCat_2-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Symphony_No._2_(Walton)_discussion" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-3"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Symphony_No._2_(Walton)_discussion"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">1.7.3</span> <span>Symphony No. 2 (Walton) discussion</span> </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Symphony_No._2_(Walton)_discussion-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Sean_Combs" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-2"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Sean_Combs"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">1.8</span> <span>Sean Combs</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">1 comment</span> <ul id="toc-Sean_Combs-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> <li id="toc-Summary_of_dispute_by_Cena332" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-3"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Summary_of_dispute_by_Cena332"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">1.8.1</span> <span>Summary of dispute by Cena332</span> </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Summary_of_dispute_by_Cena332-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Summary_of_dispute_by_HumansRightsIsCool" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-3"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Summary_of_dispute_by_HumansRightsIsCool"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">1.8.2</span> <span>Summary of dispute by HumansRightsIsCool</span> </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Summary_of_dispute_by_HumansRightsIsCool-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Sean_Combs_discussion" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-3"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Sean_Combs_discussion"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">1.8.3</span> <span>Sean Combs discussion</span> </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Sean_Combs_discussion-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Amdo" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-2"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Amdo"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">1.9</span> <span>Amdo</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">1 comment</span> <ul id="toc-Amdo-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> <li id="toc-Summary_of_dispute_by_NicolasTn" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-3"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Summary_of_dispute_by_NicolasTn"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">1.9.1</span> <span>Summary of dispute by NicolasTn</span> </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Summary_of_dispute_by_NicolasTn-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Amdo_discussion" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-3"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Amdo_discussion"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">1.9.2</span> <span>Amdo discussion</span> </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Amdo_discussion-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Elysian_Valley,_Los_Angeles" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-2"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Elysian_Valley,_Los_Angeles"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">1.10</span> <span>Elysian Valley,_Los_Angeles</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">2 comments</span> <ul id="toc-Elysian_Valley,_Los_Angeles-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> <li id="toc-Summary_of_dispute_by_phatblackmama" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-3"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Summary_of_dispute_by_phatblackmama"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">1.10.1</span> <span>Summary of dispute by phatblackmama</span> </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Summary_of_dispute_by_phatblackmama-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Elysian_Valley,_Los_Angeles_discussion" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-3"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Elysian_Valley,_Los_Angeles_discussion"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">1.10.2</span> <span>Elysian Valley,_Los_Angeles discussion</span> </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Elysian_Valley,_Los_Angeles_discussion-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Mikheil_Kavelashvili" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-2"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Mikheil_Kavelashvili"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">1.11</span> <span>Mikheil Kavelashvili</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">1 comment</span> <ul id="toc-Mikheil_Kavelashvili-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> <li id="toc-Summary_of_dispute_by_Tahomaru" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-3"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Summary_of_dispute_by_Tahomaru"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">1.11.1</span> <span>Summary of dispute by Tahomaru</span> </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Summary_of_dispute_by_Tahomaru-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Summary_of_dispute_by_Labrang." class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-3"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Summary_of_dispute_by_Labrang."> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">1.11.2</span> <span>Summary of dispute by Labrang.</span> </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Summary_of_dispute_by_Labrang.-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Mikheil_Kavelashvili_discussion" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-3"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Mikheil_Kavelashvili_discussion"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">1.11.3</span> <span>Mikheil Kavelashvili discussion</span> </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Mikheil_Kavelashvili_discussion-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Gulf_of_Mexico" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-2"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Gulf_of_Mexico"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">1.12</span> <span>Gulf of_Mexico</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">1 comment</span> <ul id="toc-Gulf_of_Mexico-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> <li id="toc-Summary_of_dispute_by_Valereee" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-3"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Summary_of_dispute_by_Valereee"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">1.12.1</span> <span>Summary of dispute by Valereee</span> </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Summary_of_dispute_by_Valereee-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Summary_of_dispute_by_Objective3000" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-3"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Summary_of_dispute_by_Objective3000"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">1.12.2</span> <span>Summary of dispute by Objective3000</span> </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Summary_of_dispute_by_Objective3000-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Summary_of_dispute_by_Simonm223" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-3"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Summary_of_dispute_by_Simonm223"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">1.12.3</span> <span>Summary of dispute by Simonm223</span> </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Summary_of_dispute_by_Simonm223-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Gulf_of_Mexico_discussion" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-3"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Gulf_of_Mexico_discussion"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">1.12.4</span> <span>Gulf of_Mexico discussion</span> </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Gulf_of_Mexico_discussion-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> </ul> </li> </ul> </li> </ul> </div> </div> </nav> </div> </div> <div class="mw-content-container"> <main id="content" class="mw-body"> <header class="mw-body-header vector-page-titlebar"> <nav aria-label="Contents" class="vector-toc-landmark"> <div id="vector-page-titlebar-toc" class="vector-dropdown vector-page-titlebar-toc vector-button-flush-left" 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diff-side-deleted"><div id="mw-diff-otitle1"><strong><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard&oldid=1276500395" title="Wikipedia:Dispute resolution noticeboard">Revision as of 06:02, 19 February 2025</a> <span class="mw-diff-edit"><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard&action=edit&oldid=1276500395" title="Wikipedia:Dispute resolution noticeboard">edit</a></span><span class="mw-diff-timestamp" data-timestamp="2025-02-19T06:02:34Z"></span></strong></div><div id="mw-diff-otitle2"><a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Malev_oleg&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new mw-userlink" title="User:Malev oleg (page does not exist)" data-mw-revid="1276500395"><bdi>Malev oleg</bdi></a> <span class="mw-usertoollinks">(<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Malev_oleg" class="mw-usertoollinks-talk" title="User talk:Malev oleg">talk</a> | <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Malev_oleg" class="mw-usertoollinks-contribs" title="Special:Contributions/Malev oleg">contribs</a>)</span><div class="mw-diff-usermetadata"><div class="mw-diff-userroles"></div><div class="mw-diff-usereditcount"><span>36</span> edits</div></div></div><div id="mw-diff-otitle3"> <span class="comment comment--without-parentheses"><span class="autocomment"><a href="#Mikheil_Kavelashvili">→<bdi dir="ltr">Mikheil Kavelashvili</bdi></a>: </span> new section</span></div><div id="mw-diff-otitle5"></div><div id="mw-diff-otitle4"><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard&diff=prev&oldid=1276500395" title="Wikipedia:Dispute resolution noticeboard" id="differences-prevlink">← Previous edit</a></div></td> <td colspan="2" class="diff-ntitle diff-side-added"><div id="mw-diff-ntitle1"><strong><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard&oldid=1276537810" title="Wikipedia:Dispute resolution noticeboard">Revision as of 12:42, 19 February 2025</a> <span class="mw-diff-edit"><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard&action=edit&oldid=1276537810" title="Wikipedia:Dispute resolution noticeboard">edit</a></span><span class="mw-diff-timestamp" data-timestamp="2025-02-19T12:42:29Z"></span> <span class="mw-diff-undo"><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard&action=edit&undoafter=1276500395&undo=1276537810" title=""Undo" reverts this edit and opens the edit form in preview mode. It allows adding a reason in the summary.">undo</a></span></strong></div><div id="mw-diff-ntitle2"><a href="/wiki/User:Lincoln2020" class="mw-userlink" title="User:Lincoln2020" data-mw-revid="1276537810"><bdi>Lincoln2020</bdi></a> <span class="mw-usertoollinks">(<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Lincoln2020" class="mw-usertoollinks-talk" title="User talk:Lincoln2020">talk</a> | <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Lincoln2020" class="mw-usertoollinks-contribs" title="Special:Contributions/Lincoln2020">contribs</a>)</span><div class="mw-diff-usermetadata"><div class="mw-diff-userroles"></div><div class="mw-diff-usereditcount"><span>121</span> edits</div></div></div><div id="mw-diff-ntitle3"> <span class="comment comment--without-parentheses"><span class="autocomment"><a href="#Gulf_of_Mexico">→<bdi dir="ltr">Gulf of_Mexico</bdi></a>: </span> new section</span></div><div id="mw-diff-ntitle5"></div><div id="mw-diff-ntitle4"><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard&diff=next&oldid=1276537810" title="Wikipedia:Dispute resolution noticeboard" id="differences-nextlink">Next edit →</a></div></td> </tr><tr> <td colspan="2" class="diff-lineno">Line 673:</td> <td colspan="2" class="diff-lineno">Line 673:</td> </tr> <tr> <td class="diff-marker"></td> <td class="diff-context diff-side-deleted"><br /></td> <td class="diff-marker"></td> <td class="diff-context diff-side-added"><br /></td> </tr> <tr> <td class="diff-marker"></td> <td class="diff-context diff-side-deleted"><div>=== Mikheil Kavelashvili discussion ===</div></td> <td class="diff-marker"></td> <td class="diff-context diff-side-added"><div>=== Mikheil Kavelashvili discussion ===</div></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" class="diff-empty diff-side-deleted"></td> <td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td> <td class="diff-addedline diff-side-added"><div><div style="font-size:smaller">Please keep discussion to a minimum before being opened by a volunteer. Continue on article talk page if necessary.</div></div></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" class="diff-empty diff-side-deleted"></td> <td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td> <td class="diff-addedline diff-side-added"><br /></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" class="diff-empty diff-side-deleted"></td> <td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td> <td class="diff-addedline diff-side-added"><div>== Gulf of_Mexico ==</div></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" class="diff-empty diff-side-deleted"></td> <td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td> <td class="diff-addedline diff-side-added"><br /></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" class="diff-empty diff-side-deleted"></td> <td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td> <td class="diff-addedline diff-side-added"><div>{{DR case status}}</div></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" class="diff-empty diff-side-deleted"></td> <td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td> <td class="diff-addedline diff-side-added"><div>{{User:ClueBot III/DoNotArchiveUntil|1742388149}}</div></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" class="diff-empty diff-side-deleted"></td> <td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td> <td class="diff-addedline diff-side-added"><div>{{drn filing editor|Lincoln2020|12:42, 19 February 2025 (UTC)}}</div></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" class="diff-empty diff-side-deleted"></td> <td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td> <td class="diff-addedline diff-side-added"><br /></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" class="diff-empty diff-side-deleted"></td> <td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td> <td class="diff-addedline diff-side-added"><div><span style="font-size:110%">'''Have you discussed this on a talk page?'''</span></div></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" class="diff-empty diff-side-deleted"></td> <td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td> <td class="diff-addedline diff-side-added"><br /></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" class="diff-empty diff-side-deleted"></td> <td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td> <td class="diff-addedline diff-side-added"><div>Yes, I have discussed this issue on a talk page already.</div></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" class="diff-empty diff-side-deleted"></td> <td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td> <td class="diff-addedline diff-side-added"><br /></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" class="diff-empty diff-side-deleted"></td> <td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td> <td class="diff-addedline diff-side-added"><div><span style="font-size:110%">'''Location of dispute'''</span></div></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" class="diff-empty diff-side-deleted"></td> <td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td> <td class="diff-addedline diff-side-added"><div>* {{pagelinks|Gulf of_Mexico}}</div></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" class="diff-empty diff-side-deleted"></td> <td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td> <td class="diff-addedline diff-side-added"><div><span style="font-size:110%">'''Users involved'''</span></div></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" class="diff-empty diff-side-deleted"></td> <td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td> <td class="diff-addedline diff-side-added"><div>* {{User|Lincoln2020}}</div></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" class="diff-empty diff-side-deleted"></td> <td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td> <td class="diff-addedline diff-side-added"><div>* {{User|Valereee}}</div></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" class="diff-empty diff-side-deleted"></td> <td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td> <td class="diff-addedline diff-side-added"><div>* {{User|Objective3000}}</div></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" class="diff-empty diff-side-deleted"></td> <td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td> <td class="diff-addedline diff-side-added"><div>* {{User|Simonm223}}</div></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" class="diff-empty diff-side-deleted"></td> <td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td> <td class="diff-addedline diff-side-added"><div><span style="font-size:110%">'''Dispute overview'''</span></div></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" class="diff-empty diff-side-deleted"></td> <td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td> <td class="diff-addedline diff-side-added"><br /></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" class="diff-empty diff-side-deleted"></td> <td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td> <td class="diff-addedline diff-side-added"><div>Recently, the Gulf of Mexico (The Gulf of America) underwent an official name change in the United States. This was followed by changes in official systems as well as changes in the largest map providers' platforms (Google, Apple, etc.).</div></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" class="diff-empty diff-side-deleted"></td> <td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td> <td class="diff-addedline diff-side-added"><br /></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" class="diff-empty diff-side-deleted"></td> <td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td> <td class="diff-addedline diff-side-added"><div>I think many assumed Wikipedia would reflect this name change, somehow, or at least acknowledge that the largest English speaking nation bordering the Gulf has made an attempt to officially change its name.</div></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" class="diff-empty diff-side-deleted"></td> <td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td> <td class="diff-addedline diff-side-added"><br /></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" class="diff-empty diff-side-deleted"></td> <td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td> <td class="diff-addedline diff-side-added"><div>However in reviewing the changes, there was not only no change, but a very lengthy discussion page. This included an improperly conducted RFC. This RFC is now being used as a cudgel, shutting down any conversation of consensus or compromise.</div></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" class="diff-empty diff-side-deleted"></td> <td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td> <td class="diff-addedline diff-side-added"><br /></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" class="diff-empty diff-side-deleted"></td> <td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td> <td class="diff-addedline diff-side-added"><div>Why the RFC was improperly conducted:</div></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" class="diff-empty diff-side-deleted"></td> <td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td> <td class="diff-addedline diff-side-added"><div>-In reviewing active and archived RFCs, I do not see an RFC for The Gulf of Mexico (or America). </div></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" class="diff-empty diff-side-deleted"></td> <td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td> <td class="diff-addedline diff-side-added"><div>-The rationale listed for closing the 'RFC', and thus finding a consensus, seems to have some policy violations, or at least rationale inconsistent with the RFC and Consensus pages.</div></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" class="diff-empty diff-side-deleted"></td> <td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td> <td class="diff-addedline diff-side-added"><div>--Great weight was given toward voting/majority. "Consensus on Wikipedia (is not the) result of a vote." Wikipedia:Consensus</div></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" class="diff-empty diff-side-deleted"></td> <td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td> <td class="diff-addedline diff-side-added"><div>---"Most cogent policy reasons" ... "but they were vastly in the minority"</div></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" class="diff-empty diff-side-deleted"></td> <td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td> <td class="diff-addedline diff-side-added"><div>---Many opinions went against wiki policy WP:TPNO</div></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" class="diff-empty diff-side-deleted"></td> <td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td> <td class="diff-addedline diff-side-added"><div>----Eg:"I sincerely oppose any name change to Gulf of America. I am a US citizen and I do NOT agree to the name change whatsoever and I sincerely hope Wikipedia does NOT feel intimidated by Trump to change it"</div></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" class="diff-empty diff-side-deleted"></td> <td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td> <td class="diff-addedline diff-side-added"><div>--"Recentism" was listed as the rationale for closing it. I think this would have been appropriate if, say, one official mentioned this body of water by a different name. Yet as noted, official sources have changed it. Recentism's page also notes that recentism shouldn't be an argument against updating pages with new developments (noting a trial which changed daily, for example).</div></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" class="diff-empty diff-side-deleted"></td> <td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td> <td class="diff-addedline diff-side-added"><br /></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" class="diff-empty diff-side-deleted"></td> <td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td> <td class="diff-addedline diff-side-added"><div>Wikipedia's neutrality is at stake here. Clearly doing nothing is unreasonable. Ty. Probably applies to Denali too.</div></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" class="diff-empty diff-side-deleted"></td> <td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td> <td class="diff-addedline diff-side-added"><br /></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" class="diff-empty diff-side-deleted"></td> <td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td> <td class="diff-addedline diff-side-added"><br /></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" class="diff-empty diff-side-deleted"></td> <td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td> <td class="diff-addedline diff-side-added"><br /></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" class="diff-empty diff-side-deleted"></td> <td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td> <td class="diff-addedline diff-side-added"><br /></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" class="diff-empty diff-side-deleted"></td> <td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td> <td class="diff-addedline diff-side-added"><div><span style="font-size:110%">'''How have you tried to resolve this dispute before coming here?'''</span></div></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" class="diff-empty diff-side-deleted"></td> <td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td> <td class="diff-addedline diff-side-added"><br /></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" class="diff-empty diff-side-deleted"></td> <td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td> <td class="diff-addedline diff-side-added"><div>Have tried having rational discussions on the merits but currently there's an attempt to silence any dissent with a moratorium conversation.</div></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" class="diff-empty diff-side-deleted"></td> <td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td> <td class="diff-addedline diff-side-added"><br /></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" class="diff-empty diff-side-deleted"></td> <td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td> <td class="diff-addedline diff-side-added"><div><span style="font-size:110%">'''How do you think we can help resolve the dispute?'''</span></div></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" class="diff-empty diff-side-deleted"></td> <td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td> <td class="diff-addedline diff-side-added"><br /></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" class="diff-empty diff-side-deleted"></td> <td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td> <td class="diff-addedline diff-side-added"><div>Honestly I'm not sure. Wikipedia is supposed to be an unbiased, neutral source for information. Anyone can see that today, it's clearly not that, and that's really frustrating and unfortunate. </div></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" class="diff-empty diff-side-deleted"></td> <td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td> <td class="diff-addedline diff-side-added"><br /></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" class="diff-empty diff-side-deleted"></td> <td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td> <td class="diff-addedline diff-side-added"><div>At the very least, the article should have reference to the major changes which have occurred. Whether or not they're lasting, it becomes its main name, whatever, I'm not sure ... but I don't see any sort of reasonable explanation for not having it mentioned.</div></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" class="diff-empty diff-side-deleted"></td> <td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td> <td class="diff-addedline diff-side-added"><br /></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" class="diff-empty diff-side-deleted"></td> <td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td> <td class="diff-addedline diff-side-added"><div>==== Summary of dispute by Valereee ====</div></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" class="diff-empty diff-side-deleted"></td> <td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td> <td class="diff-addedline diff-side-added"><div><div style="font-size:smaller">Please keep it brief - less than 2000 characters if possible, it helps us help you quicker.</div></div></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" class="diff-empty diff-side-deleted"></td> <td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td> <td class="diff-addedline diff-side-added"><br /></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" class="diff-empty diff-side-deleted"></td> <td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td> <td class="diff-addedline diff-side-added"><div>==== Summary of dispute by Objective3000 ====</div></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" class="diff-empty diff-side-deleted"></td> <td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td> <td class="diff-addedline diff-side-added"><div><div style="font-size:smaller">Please keep it brief - less than 2000 characters if possible, it helps us help you quicker.</div></div></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" class="diff-empty diff-side-deleted"></td> <td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td> <td class="diff-addedline diff-side-added"><br /></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" class="diff-empty diff-side-deleted"></td> <td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td> <td class="diff-addedline diff-side-added"><div>==== Summary of dispute by Simonm223 ====</div></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" class="diff-empty diff-side-deleted"></td> <td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td> <td class="diff-addedline diff-side-added"><div><div style="font-size:smaller">Please keep it brief - less than 2000 characters if possible, it helps us help you quicker.</div></div></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" class="diff-empty diff-side-deleted"></td> <td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td> <td class="diff-addedline diff-side-added"><br /></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" class="diff-empty diff-side-deleted"></td> <td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td> <td class="diff-addedline diff-side-added"><div>=== Gulf of_Mexico discussion ===</div></td> </tr> <tr> <td class="diff-marker"></td> <td class="diff-context diff-side-deleted"><div><div style="font-size:smaller">Please keep discussion to a minimum before being opened by a volunteer. Continue on article talk page if necessary.</div></div></td> <td class="diff-marker"></td> <td class="diff-context diff-side-added"><div><div style="font-size:smaller">Please keep discussion to a minimum before being opened by a volunteer. Continue on article talk page if necessary.</div></div></td> </tr>  </table><hr class='diff-hr' id='mw-oldid' /> <h2 class='diff-currentversion-title'>Revision as of 12:42, 19 February 2025</h2> <div class="mw-content-ltr mw-parser-output" lang="en" dir="ltr"><div class="shortdescription nomobile noexcerpt noprint searchaux" style="display:none">Informal venue for resolving content disputes</div> <style data-mw-deduplicate="TemplateStyles:r1236090951">.mw-parser-output .hatnote{font-style:italic}.mw-parser-output div.hatnote{padding-left:1.6em;margin-bottom:0.5em}.mw-parser-output .hatnote i{font-style:normal}.mw-parser-output .hatnote+link+.hatnote{margin-top:-0.5em}@media print{body.ns-0 .mw-parser-output .hatnote{display:none!important}}</style><div role="note" class="hatnote navigation-not-searchable">"WP:DRN" redirects here. 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href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Proposed_article_mergers" title="Wikipedia:Proposed article mergers">Mergers</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Proposed_article_splits" title="Wikipedia:Proposed article splits">Splits</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Requested_moves" title="Wikipedia:Requested moves">Moves</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Requests_for_page_protection" title="Wikipedia:Requests for page protection">Protection</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Requests_for_page_importation" title="Wikipedia:Requests for page importation">Importation</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Deletion_process" title="Wikipedia:Deletion process">XfD</a> <ul><li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion" title="Wikipedia:Articles for deletion">Articles</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Redirects_for_discussion" title="Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion">Redirects</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion" title="Wikipedia:Categories for discussion">Categories</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Templates_for_discussion" title="Wikipedia:Templates for discussion">Templates</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Files_for_discussion" title="Wikipedia:Files for discussion">Files</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Miscellany_for_deletion" title="Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion">Miscellany</a></li></ul></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Requests_for_undeletion" title="Wikipedia:Requests for undeletion">Undeletion</a></li></ul> </div></td></tr><tr><th scope="row" class="navbox-group" style="width:1%;background-color: #cae1ff;">User conduct</th><td class="navbox-list-with-group navbox-list navbox-even hlist" style="width:100%;padding:0"><div style="padding:0 0.25em"> <ul><li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Conflict_of_interest/Noticeboard" title="Wikipedia:Conflict of interest/Noticeboard">Conflict of interest</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Contributor_copyright_investigations" title="Wikipedia:Contributor copyright investigations">Contributor copyright</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Edit_warring" title="Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Edit warring">Edit warring and 3RR</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Sanctions" title="Wikipedia:Sanctions">Sanctions</a> <ul><li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Editing_restrictions" title="Wikipedia:Editing restrictions">Personal restrictions</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:General_sanctions" title="Wikipedia:General sanctions">General sanctions</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Contentious_topics" title="Wikipedia:Contentious topics">Contentious topics</a></li></ul></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Sockpuppet_investigations" title="Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations">Sockpuppets</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Usernames_for_administrator_attention" title="Wikipedia:Usernames for administrator attention">Usernames</a> (<a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Requests_for_comment/User_names" title="Wikipedia:Requests for comment/User names">Requests for comment</a>)</li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrator_intervention_against_vandalism" title="Wikipedia:Administrator intervention against vandalism">Vandalism</a></li></ul> </div></td></tr><tr><th scope="row" class="navbox-group" style="width:1%;background-color: #cae1ff;">Other</th><td class="navbox-list-with-group navbox-list navbox-odd hlist" style="width:100%;padding:0"><div style="padding:0 0.25em"> <ul><li>Arbitration <ul><li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration_Committee/Noticeboard" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration Committee/Noticeboard">Committee noticeboard</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests">Requests</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement">Enforcement</a></li></ul></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Edit_filter_noticeboard" title="Wikipedia:Edit filter noticeboard">Edit filters</a> <ul><li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Edit_filter/Requested" title="Wikipedia:Edit filter/Requested">Requested</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Edit_filter/False_positives" title="Wikipedia:Edit filter/False positives">False positives</a></li></ul></li> <li>Questions <ul><li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Help_desk" title="Wikipedia:Help desk">Help desk</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Teahouse" title="Wikipedia:Teahouse">Teahouse</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk" title="Wikipedia:Reference desk">Reference desk</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Articles_for_creation/Help_desk" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Articles for creation/Help desk">New articles</a></li></ul></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Requests_for_comment/All" title="Wikipedia:Requests for comment/All">Requests for comment</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Village_pump" title="Wikipedia:Village pump">Village pump</a> <ul><li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Village_pump_(policy)" title="Wikipedia:Village pump (policy)">Policy</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Village_pump_(technical)" title="Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)">Technical</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Village_pump_(proposals)" title="Wikipedia:Village pump (proposals)">Proposals</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Village_pump_(idea_lab)" title="Wikipedia:Village pump (idea lab)">Idea lab</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Village_pump_(WMF)" title="Wikipedia:Village pump (WMF)">WMF</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Village_pump_(miscellaneous)" title="Wikipedia:Village pump (miscellaneous)">Miscellaneous</a></li></ul></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Council/Proposals" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Council/Proposals">WikiProject proposals</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Discussions_for_discussion" title="Wikipedia:Discussions for discussion">Discussions for discussion</a></li></ul> </div></td></tr><tr><td class="navbox-abovebelow" colspan="2" style="background-color: #cae1ff;"><div><b> <a href="/wiki/Category:Wikipedia_noticeboards" title="Category:Wikipedia noticeboards">Category:Wikipedia noticeboards</a></b></div></td></tr></tbody></table></div><style data-mw-deduplicate="TemplateStyles:r1214005174">body.skin-vector-2022 .mw-parser-output .skip-to-toc,body.skin-timeless .mw-parser-output .skip-to-bottom,.mw-parser-output .skip-to-bottom-timeless{display:none}body.skin-timeless .mw-parser-output .skip-to-bottom-timeless{display:inline}</style> <ul></ul> <div style="margin: 2px 0 0.5em; padding: 0.5em; border: 1px solid #A0A5AD; background-color: var(--background-color-progressive-subtle, #eaf3ff); color: inherit;"> <div style="padding: 0.25em 0; text-align: center; font-size: 120%; border-radius: 3px; font-weight: bold; background-color: var(--background-color-content-added, #aad1ff); color: inherit;">Welcome to the dispute resolution noticeboard (DRN)</div> <div style="margin: 0.5em 0;"><style data-mw-deduplicate="TemplateStyles:r1252059228">.mw-parser-output .module-shortcutboxplain{float:right;margin:0 0 0 1em;border:1px solid var(--border-color-base,#a2a9b1);background-color:var(--background-color-base,#fff);padding:0.3em 0.6em 0.2em 0.6em;text-align:center;font-size:85%}.mw-parser-output .module-shortcutboxleft{float:left;margin:0 1em 0 0}.mw-parser-output .module-shortcutlist{display:inline-block;border-bottom:1px solid var(--border-color-base,#a2a9b1);margin-bottom:0.2em}.mw-parser-output .module-shortcutboxplain ul{font-weight:bold}.mw-parser-output .module-shortcutanchordiv{position:relative;top:-3em}.mw-parser-output li .module-shortcutanchordiv{float:right}.mw-parser-output .mbox-imageright .module-shortcutboxplain{padding:0.4em 1em 0.4em 1em;line-height:1.3;margin:0}</style><div class="module-shortcutanchordiv"><span id="WP:DRN"></span><span id="WP:DR/N"></span></div><div class="module-shortcutboxplain noprint" role="note"><div class="module-shortcutlist"><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Shortcut" title="Wikipedia:Shortcut">Shortcuts</a></div><style data-mw-deduplicate="TemplateStyles:r1126788409">.mw-parser-output .plainlist ol,.mw-parser-output .plainlist ul{line-height:inherit;list-style:none;margin:0;padding:0}.mw-parser-output .plainlist ol li,.mw-parser-output .plainlist ul li{margin-bottom:0}</style><div class="plainlist"><ul><li><span class="plainlinks"><a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:DRN&redirect=no">WP:DRN</a></span></li><li><span class="plainlinks"><a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:DR/N&redirect=no">WP:DR/N</a></span></li></ul></div></div></div> <p>This is an <i>informal</i> place to resolve <b>content disputes</b> as part of <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution" title="Wikipedia:Dispute resolution">dispute resolution</a>. It may also be used as a tool to direct certain discussions to more appropriate forums, such as <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Requests_for_comment" title="Wikipedia:Requests for comment">requests for comment</a>, or other noticeboards. You can ask a question on the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard" title="Wikipedia talk:Dispute resolution noticeboard">talk page</a>. This is an early stop for most disputes on Wikipedia. You are <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard/FAQ" title="Wikipedia:Dispute resolution noticeboard/FAQ">not required to participate</a>, however, the case filer must participate in all aspects of the dispute or the matter will be considered failed. Any editor may volunteer! Click this button <span class="mw-default-size" typeof="mw:File"><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard/Volunteering#List_of_the_DRN_volunteers"><img src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/5f/Button_rediriger.png" decoding="async" width="23" height="22" class="mw-file-element" data-file-width="23" data-file-height="22" /></a></span> to add your name! You don't need to volunteer to help. Please feel free to comment below on any case. <b>Be civil and remember; Maintain Wikipedia policy</b>: <b>it is usually a misuse of a <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Talk_page_guidelines" title="Wikipedia:Talk page guidelines">talk page</a> to continue to argue any point that has not met <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Policies_and_guidelines" title="Wikipedia:Policies and guidelines">policy requirements</a>. Editors must take particular care adding <i><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Biographies_of_living_persons" title="Wikipedia:Biographies of living persons">information about living persons</a></i> to <i>any</i> Wikipedia page. This may also apply to some <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:BLPGROUP" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:BLPGROUP">groups</a>.</b> </p> <div style="text-align:center"><i><b>Noticeboards should not be a substitute for talk pages. Editors are expected to have had extensive discussion on a talk page (not just through edit summaries) to work out the issues before coming to DRN.</b></i></div> <table> <tbody><tr style="background-color: #cae1ff; font-size: 125%;"> <th colspan="3" style="width: 50%">Do you need assistance? </th> <th colspan="3" style="width: 50%">Would you like to help? </th></tr> <tr style="vertical-align: top; background-color: #f0f8ff;"> <td colspan="3"> <div style="margin: 1.125rem 0; text-align: center;"><span class="plainlinks clickbutton"><a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard/request?withJS=MediaWiki:DRN-wizard.js&withCSS=MediaWiki:DRN-wizard.css"><span class="mw-ui-button mw-ui-progressive">Request dispute resolution</span></a></span></div> <p>If we can't help you, a volunteer will point you in the right direction. Discussions should be <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Civility" title="Wikipedia:Civility">civil</a>, calm, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Too_long;_didn%27t_read" title="Wikipedia:Too long; didn't read">concise</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Neutral_point_of_view" title="Wikipedia:Neutral point of view">neutral</a>, objective and as nice as possible. </p> <ul><li><b>This noticeboard is for content disputes only.</b> Comment on the contributions, not the contributors. Off-topic or uncivil behavior may garner a warning, improper material may be struck-out, collapsed, or deleted, and a participant could be asked to step back from the discussion.</li> <li><b>We cannot accept disputes that are</b> <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Consensus#FORUMSHOP" title="Wikipedia:Consensus">already under discussion</a> at other content or conduct <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution" title="Wikipedia:Dispute resolution">dispute resolution forums</a> or in decision-making processes such as <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Requests_for_comment" title="Wikipedia:Requests for comment">Requests for comments</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion" title="Wikipedia:Articles for deletion">Articles for deletion</a>, or <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Requested_moves" title="Wikipedia:Requested moves">Requested moves</a>.</li> <li><b>The dispute must have been</b> <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Talk_page_guidelines" title="Wikipedia:Talk page guidelines"><b>recently discussed extensively</b> on a talk page</a> (not just through edit summaries) to be eligible for help at DRN. The discussion should have been on the article talk page. Discussion on a user talk page is useful but not sufficient, because the article talk page may be watched by other editors who may be able to comment. Discussion normally should have taken at least two days, with more than one post by each editor.</li> <li><b>Ensure that you deliver a notice to each person you add to the case filing by leaving a notice on their user talk page</b>. DRN has a notice template you can post to their user talk page by using the code shown here: {{<a href="/wiki/Template:DRN-notice" title="Template:DRN-notice">subst:drn-notice</a>}}. Be sure to sign and date each notice with four tildes (~~~~). Giving notice on the article talk page in dispute or relying on linking their names here will <i>not</i> suffice.</li> <li><b>Do not add your own formatting</b> in the conversation. Let the moderators (DRN Volunteers) handle the formatting of the discussion as they may not be ready for the next session.</li> <li><b>Follow moderator instructions</b> There will be times when the moderator may issue an instruction. It is expected of you to follow their instruction and you can always ask the volunteer on their talk page for clarification, if not already provided. Examples are about civility, don't bite the newcomers, etc.</li></ul> <div class="center" style="width:auto; margin-left:auto; margin-right:auto;"><b>If you need help:</b></div> <p>If you need a helping hand just ask a <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard/Volunteers" title="Wikipedia:Dispute resolution noticeboard/Volunteers">volunteer</a>, who will assist you. </p> <ul><li>This is not a court with judges or arbitrators that issue binding decisions: we focus on resolving disputes through consensus, compromise, and advice about policy.</li> <li>For general questions relating to the dispute resolution process, please see our <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard/FAQ" title="Wikipedia:Dispute resolution noticeboard/FAQ">FAQ page</a>.</li></ul> </td> <td colspan="3"> <div style="margin: 1.125rem 0; text-align: center;"><span class="plainlinks clickbutton"><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard/Volunteer" title="Wikipedia:Dispute resolution noticeboard/Volunteer"><span class="mw-ui-button mw-ui-progressive">Become a volunteer</span></a></span></div> <p><b>We are always looking for new volunteers</b> and everyone is welcome. Click the volunteer button above to join us, and read over the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard/Volunteering" title="Wikipedia:Dispute resolution noticeboard/Volunteering">volunteer guide</a> to learn how to get started. Being a <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard/Volunteers" title="Wikipedia:Dispute resolution noticeboard/Volunteers">volunteer</a> on this page is not formal in any respect, and it is not necessary to have any previous dispute resolution experience. However, having a calm and patient demeanor and a good knowledge of Wikipedia policies and guidelines is very important. It's not mandatory to list yourself as a volunteer to help here, anyone is welcome to provide input. </p> <div class="center" style="width:auto; margin-left:auto; margin-right:auto;"><b>Volunteers should remember:</b></div> <ul><li>Volunteers should <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Please_do_not_bite_the_newcomers" title="Wikipedia:Please do not bite the newcomers">gently and politely</a> help the participant fix problems. Suggest alternative venues if needed. Try to be nice and engage the participants.</li> <li>Volunteers do not have any special powers, privileges, or authority in DRN or in Wikipedia, except as noted <b><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Mediation#Control_of_mediation" title="Wikipedia:Mediation">here</a></b>. Volunteers who have had past dealings with the article, subject matter, or with the editors involved in a dispute which would bias their response must not act as a volunteer on that dispute. If any editor objects to a volunteer's participation in a dispute, the volunteer must either withdraw or take the objection to the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard" title="Wikipedia talk:Dispute resolution noticeboard">DRN talk page</a> to let the community comment upon whether or not the volunteer should continue in that dispute.</li> <li>Listed volunteers open a case by signing a comment in the new filing. When closing a dispute, please mark it as "closed" in the status template (see the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard/Volunteering" title="Wikipedia:Dispute resolution noticeboard/Volunteering">volunteer guide</a> for more information), remove the entire line about 'donotarchive' so that the bot will archive it after 48 hours with no other edits.</li></ul> <div class="center" style="width:auto; margin-left:auto; margin-right:auto;"><b>Open/close quick reference</b></div> <ul><li>To open, replace {{DR case status}} with {{DR case status|open}}</li> <li>To close, replace the "open" with "resolved", "failed", or "closed". Add {{DRN archive top|reason=(reason here) ~~~~}} beneath the case status template, and add {{DRN archive bottom}} at the bottom of the case. Remember to remove the DoNotArchive bit line (the entire line).</li></ul> </td></tr></tbody></table> <div style="clear:both;" class=""></div></div> <div style="margin-bottom: 1rem; float: left;"> <table class="wikitable collapsible sortable"> <tbody><tr> <th colspan="2">Case</th> <th colspan="2">Created</th> <th colspan="2">Last volunteer edit</th> <th colspan="2">Last modified</th> </tr> <tr> <th>Title</th> <th>Status</th> <th>User</th> <th>Time</th> <th>User</th> <th>Time</th> <th>User</th> <th>Time</th> </tr> <tr style="background-color: #FFFFFF;"> <td><a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#Charyapada">Charyapada</a></td> <td data-sort-value="1">New</td> <td><a href="/wiki/User:Ixudi" title="User:Ixudi">Ixudi</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Ixudi" title="User talk:Ixudi">t</a>)</td> <td data-sort-value="">35 days, 6 hours</td> <td><a href="/wiki/User:Steven_Crossin" title="User:Steven Crossin">Steven Crossin</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Steven_Crossin" title="User talk:Steven Crossin">t</a>)</td> <td data-sort-value="">35 days, 3 hours</td> <td><a href="/wiki/User:CharlesWain" title="User:CharlesWain">CharlesWain</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:CharlesWain" title="User talk:CharlesWain">t</a>)</td> <td data-sort-value="">34 days, 7 hours</td> </tr> <tr style="background-color: #ADD8E6;"> <td><a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#Aristides_de_Sousa_Mendes">Aristides de Sousa Mendes</a></td> <td data-sort-value="2">In Progress</td> <td><a href="/wiki/User:Benji1207" title="User:Benji1207">Benji1207</a> (<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Benji1207&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User talk:Benji1207 (page does not exist)">t</a>)</td> <td data-sort-value="">24 days, 7 hours</td> <td><a href="/wiki/User:Robert_McClenon" title="User:Robert McClenon">Robert McClenon</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Robert_McClenon" title="User talk:Robert McClenon">t</a>)</td> <td data-sort-value="">1 days, 5 hours</td> <td><a href="/wiki/User:Jos%C3%A9%C3%A1ngel006" title="User:Joséángel006">Joséángel006</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Jos%C3%A9%C3%A1ngel006" title="User talk:Joséángel006">t</a>)</td> <td data-sort-value="">14 hours</td> </tr> <tr style="background-color: #D0F0C0;"> <td><a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#The_Simpsons_season_36">The Simpsons season 36</a></td> <td data-sort-value="6">Resolved</td> <td><a href="/wiki/User:Lado85" title="User:Lado85">Lado85</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Lado85" title="User talk:Lado85">t</a>)</td> <td data-sort-value="">23 days, 11 hours</td> <td><a href="/wiki/User:Robert_McClenon" title="User:Robert McClenon">Robert McClenon</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Robert_McClenon" title="User talk:Robert McClenon">t</a>)</td> <td data-sort-value="">1 days, 15 hours</td> <td><a href="/wiki/User:Robert_McClenon" title="User:Robert McClenon">Robert McClenon</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Robert_McClenon" title="User talk:Robert McClenon">t</a>)</td> <td data-sort-value="">1 days, 15 hours</td> </tr> <tr style="background-color: #D3D3D3;"> <td><a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#Elysian_Valley,_Los_Angeles">Elysian Valley, Los Angeles</a></td> <td data-sort-value="7">Closed</td> <td><a href="/w/index.php?title=User:2603:8000:DCF0:95D0:D5C0:7CB3:844E:FF60&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:2603:8000:DCF0:95D0:D5C0:7CB3:844E:FF60 (page does not exist)">2603:8000:DCF0:95D0:D5C0:7CB3:844E:FF60</a> (<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:2603:8000:DCF0:95D0:D5C0:7CB3:844E:FF60&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User talk:2603:8000:DCF0:95D0:D5C0:7CB3:844E:FF60 (page does not exist)">t</a>)</td> <td data-sort-value="">13 days, 1 hours</td> <td><a href="/wiki/User:Robert_McClenon" title="User:Robert McClenon">Robert McClenon</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Robert_McClenon" title="User talk:Robert McClenon">t</a>)</td> <td data-sort-value="">1 days, 5 hours</td> <td><a href="/wiki/User:Robert_McClenon" title="User:Robert McClenon">Robert McClenon</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Robert_McClenon" title="User talk:Robert McClenon">t</a>)</td> <td data-sort-value="">1 days, 5 hours</td> </tr> <tr style="background-color: #ADD8E6;"> <td><a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#Bahmani–Vijayanagar_War_(1443)">Bahmani–Vijayanagar War (1443)</a></td> <td data-sort-value="2">In Progress</td> <td><a href="/wiki/User:Example" title="User:Example">Example</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Example" title="User talk:Example">t</a>)</td> <td data-sort-value=""><b>Unknown</b></td> <td><a href="/wiki/User:Robert_McClenon" title="User:Robert McClenon">Robert McClenon</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Robert_McClenon" title="User talk:Robert McClenon">t</a>)</td> <td data-sort-value="">1 days, 5 hours</td> <td><a href="/wiki/User:Robert_McClenon" title="User:Robert McClenon">Robert McClenon</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Robert_McClenon" title="User talk:Robert McClenon">t</a>)</td> <td data-sort-value="">1 days, 5 hours</td> </tr> <tr style="background-color: #D3D3D3;"> <td><a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#Ricky_Rich">Ricky Rich</a></td> <td data-sort-value="7">Closed</td> <td><a href="/wiki/User:Surayeproject3" title="User:Surayeproject3">Surayeproject3</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Surayeproject3" title="User talk:Surayeproject3">t</a>)</td> <td data-sort-value="">12 days, 8 hours</td> <td><a href="/wiki/User:Robert_McClenon" title="User:Robert McClenon">Robert McClenon</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Robert_McClenon" title="User talk:Robert McClenon">t</a>)</td> <td data-sort-value="">21 hours</td> <td><a href="/wiki/User:Robert_McClenon" title="User:Robert McClenon">Robert McClenon</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Robert_McClenon" title="User talk:Robert McClenon">t</a>)</td> <td data-sort-value="">21 hours</td> </tr> <tr style="background-color: #FFFFFF;"> <td><a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#Sheba,_Dʿmt">Sheba, Dʿmt</a></td> <td data-sort-value="1">New</td> <td><a href="/wiki/User:Abo_Yemen" title="User:Abo Yemen">Abo Yemen</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Abo_Yemen" title="User talk:Abo Yemen">t</a>)</td> <td data-sort-value="">4 days, 8 hours</td> <td><a href="/wiki/User:Robert_McClenon" title="User:Robert McClenon">Robert McClenon</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Robert_McClenon" title="User talk:Robert McClenon">t</a>)</td> <td data-sort-value="">3 days, 13 hours</td> <td><a href="/wiki/User:Robert_McClenon" title="User:Robert McClenon">Robert McClenon</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Robert_McClenon" title="User talk:Robert McClenon">t</a>)</td> <td data-sort-value="">3 days, 13 hours</td> </tr> <tr style="background-color: #FFFFFF;"> <td><a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#Geography">Geography</a></td> <td data-sort-value="1">New</td> <td><a href="/wiki/User:Interstellarity" title="User:Interstellarity">Interstellarity</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Interstellarity" title="User talk:Interstellarity">t</a>)</td> <td data-sort-value="">3 days, 22 hours</td> <td><a href="/wiki/User:Robert_McClenon" title="User:Robert McClenon">Robert McClenon</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Robert_McClenon" title="User talk:Robert McClenon">t</a>)</td> <td data-sort-value="">21 hours</td> <td><a href="/wiki/User:GeogSage" title="User:GeogSage">GeogSage</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:GeogSage" title="User talk:GeogSage">t</a>)</td> <td data-sort-value="">18 hours</td> </tr> </tbody></table> <p><small>If you would like a regularly-updated copy of this status box on your user page or talk page, put <span class="nowrap">{{<a href="/wiki/Template:DRN_case_status" title="Template:DRN case status">DRN case status</a>}}</span> on your page. Click on that link for more options.</small><br /> </p> </div> <div style="float: right"> <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1238436933" /> <table id="archivebox" role="presentation" class="ombox ombox-notice mbox-small mw-collapsible mw-collapsed" style="text-align: center; padding: 1em; width:200px;"> <tbody><tr> <td style="padding:0.6em 0 0.25em;"> <div style="width:100%; overflow:hidden;"><span typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Replacement_filing_cabinet.svg" class="mw-file-description"><img alt="Archiving icon" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/2/2a/Replacement_filing_cabinet.svg/40px-Replacement_filing_cabinet.svg.png" decoding="async" width="40" height="40" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/2/2a/Replacement_filing_cabinet.svg/60px-Replacement_filing_cabinet.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/2/2a/Replacement_filing_cabinet.svg/80px-Replacement_filing_cabinet.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="200" data-file-height="200" /></a></span><br /><b>Archived DRN Cases</b></div> </td></tr><tr> <td class="plainlinks"> <p><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard/Archive_1" title="Wikipedia:Dispute resolution noticeboard/Archive 1">1</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard/Archive_2" title="Wikipedia:Dispute resolution noticeboard/Archive 2">2</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard/Archive_3" title="Wikipedia:Dispute resolution noticeboard/Archive 3">3</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard/Archive_4" title="Wikipedia:Dispute resolution noticeboard/Archive 4">4</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard/Archive_5" title="Wikipedia:Dispute resolution noticeboard/Archive 5">5</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard/Archive_6" title="Wikipedia:Dispute resolution noticeboard/Archive 6">6</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard/Archive_7" title="Wikipedia:Dispute resolution noticeboard/Archive 7">7</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard/Archive_8" title="Wikipedia:Dispute resolution noticeboard/Archive 8">8</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard/Archive_9" title="Wikipedia:Dispute resolution noticeboard/Archive 9">9</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard/Archive_10" title="Wikipedia:Dispute resolution noticeboard/Archive 10">10</a><br /><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard/Archive_11" title="Wikipedia:Dispute resolution noticeboard/Archive 11">11</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard/Archive_12" title="Wikipedia:Dispute resolution noticeboard/Archive 12">12</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard/Archive_13" title="Wikipedia:Dispute resolution noticeboard/Archive 13">13</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard/Archive_14" title="Wikipedia:Dispute resolution noticeboard/Archive 14">14</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard/Archive_15" title="Wikipedia:Dispute resolution noticeboard/Archive 15">15</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard/Archive_16" title="Wikipedia:Dispute resolution noticeboard/Archive 16">16</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard/Archive_17" title="Wikipedia:Dispute resolution noticeboard/Archive 17">17</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard/Archive_18" title="Wikipedia:Dispute resolution noticeboard/Archive 18">18</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard/Archive_19" title="Wikipedia:Dispute resolution noticeboard/Archive 19">19</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard/Archive_20" title="Wikipedia:Dispute resolution noticeboard/Archive 20">20</a><br /><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard/Archive_21" title="Wikipedia:Dispute resolution noticeboard/Archive 21">21</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard/Archive_22" title="Wikipedia:Dispute resolution noticeboard/Archive 22">22</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard/Archive_23" title="Wikipedia:Dispute resolution noticeboard/Archive 23">23</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard/Archive_24" title="Wikipedia:Dispute resolution noticeboard/Archive 24">24</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard/Archive_25" title="Wikipedia:Dispute resolution noticeboard/Archive 25">25</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard/Archive_26" title="Wikipedia:Dispute resolution noticeboard/Archive 26">26</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard/Archive_27" title="Wikipedia:Dispute resolution noticeboard/Archive 27">27</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard/Archive_28" title="Wikipedia:Dispute resolution noticeboard/Archive 28">28</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard/Archive_29" title="Wikipedia:Dispute resolution noticeboard/Archive 29">29</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard/Archive_30" title="Wikipedia:Dispute resolution noticeboard/Archive 30">30</a><br /><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard/Archive_31" title="Wikipedia:Dispute resolution noticeboard/Archive 31">31</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard/Archive_32" title="Wikipedia:Dispute resolution noticeboard/Archive 32">32</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard/Archive_33" title="Wikipedia:Dispute resolution noticeboard/Archive 33">33</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard/Archive_34" title="Wikipedia:Dispute resolution noticeboard/Archive 34">34</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard/Archive_35" title="Wikipedia:Dispute resolution noticeboard/Archive 35">35</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard/Archive_36" title="Wikipedia:Dispute resolution noticeboard/Archive 36">36</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard/Archive_37" title="Wikipedia:Dispute resolution noticeboard/Archive 37">37</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard/Archive_38" title="Wikipedia:Dispute resolution noticeboard/Archive 38">38</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard/Archive_39" title="Wikipedia:Dispute resolution noticeboard/Archive 39">39</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard/Archive_40" title="Wikipedia:Dispute resolution noticeboard/Archive 40">40</a><br /><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard/Archive_41" title="Wikipedia:Dispute resolution noticeboard/Archive 41">41</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard/Archive_42" title="Wikipedia:Dispute resolution noticeboard/Archive 42">42</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard/Archive_43" title="Wikipedia:Dispute resolution noticeboard/Archive 43">43</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard/Archive_44" title="Wikipedia:Dispute resolution noticeboard/Archive 44">44</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard/Archive_45" title="Wikipedia:Dispute resolution noticeboard/Archive 45">45</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard/Archive_46" title="Wikipedia:Dispute resolution noticeboard/Archive 46">46</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard/Archive_47" title="Wikipedia:Dispute resolution noticeboard/Archive 47">47</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard/Archive_48" title="Wikipedia:Dispute resolution noticeboard/Archive 48">48</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard/Archive_49" title="Wikipedia:Dispute resolution noticeboard/Archive 49">49</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard/Archive_50" title="Wikipedia:Dispute resolution noticeboard/Archive 50">50</a><br /><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard/Archive_51" title="Wikipedia:Dispute resolution noticeboard/Archive 51">51</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard/Archive_52" title="Wikipedia:Dispute resolution noticeboard/Archive 52">52</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard/Archive_53" title="Wikipedia:Dispute resolution noticeboard/Archive 53">53</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard/Archive_54" title="Wikipedia:Dispute resolution noticeboard/Archive 54">54</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard/Archive_55" title="Wikipedia:Dispute resolution noticeboard/Archive 55">55</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard/Archive_56" title="Wikipedia:Dispute resolution noticeboard/Archive 56">56</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard/Archive_57" title="Wikipedia:Dispute resolution noticeboard/Archive 57">57</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard/Archive_58" title="Wikipedia:Dispute resolution noticeboard/Archive 58">58</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard/Archive_59" title="Wikipedia:Dispute resolution noticeboard/Archive 59">59</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard/Archive_60" title="Wikipedia:Dispute resolution noticeboard/Archive 60">60</a><br /><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard/Archive_61" title="Wikipedia:Dispute resolution noticeboard/Archive 61">61</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard/Archive_62" title="Wikipedia:Dispute resolution noticeboard/Archive 62">62</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard/Archive_63" title="Wikipedia:Dispute resolution noticeboard/Archive 63">63</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard/Archive_64" title="Wikipedia:Dispute resolution noticeboard/Archive 64">64</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard/Archive_65" title="Wikipedia:Dispute resolution noticeboard/Archive 65">65</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard/Archive_66" title="Wikipedia:Dispute resolution noticeboard/Archive 66">66</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard/Archive_67" title="Wikipedia:Dispute resolution noticeboard/Archive 67">67</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard/Archive_68" title="Wikipedia:Dispute resolution noticeboard/Archive 68">68</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard/Archive_69" title="Wikipedia:Dispute resolution noticeboard/Archive 69">69</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard/Archive_70" title="Wikipedia:Dispute resolution noticeboard/Archive 70">70</a><br /><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard/Archive_71" title="Wikipedia:Dispute resolution noticeboard/Archive 71">71</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard/Archive_72" title="Wikipedia:Dispute resolution noticeboard/Archive 72">72</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard/Archive_73" title="Wikipedia:Dispute resolution noticeboard/Archive 73">73</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard/Archive_74" title="Wikipedia:Dispute resolution noticeboard/Archive 74">74</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard/Archive_75" title="Wikipedia:Dispute resolution noticeboard/Archive 75">75</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard/Archive_76" title="Wikipedia:Dispute resolution noticeboard/Archive 76">76</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard/Archive_77" title="Wikipedia:Dispute resolution noticeboard/Archive 77">77</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard/Archive_78" title="Wikipedia:Dispute resolution noticeboard/Archive 78">78</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard/Archive_79" title="Wikipedia:Dispute resolution noticeboard/Archive 79">79</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard/Archive_80" title="Wikipedia:Dispute resolution noticeboard/Archive 80">80</a><br /><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard/Archive_81" title="Wikipedia:Dispute resolution noticeboard/Archive 81">81</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard/Archive_82" title="Wikipedia:Dispute resolution noticeboard/Archive 82">82</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard/Archive_83" title="Wikipedia:Dispute resolution noticeboard/Archive 83">83</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard/Archive_84" title="Wikipedia:Dispute resolution noticeboard/Archive 84">84</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard/Archive_85" title="Wikipedia:Dispute resolution noticeboard/Archive 85">85</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard/Archive_86" title="Wikipedia:Dispute resolution noticeboard/Archive 86">86</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard/Archive_87" title="Wikipedia:Dispute resolution noticeboard/Archive 87">87</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard/Archive_88" title="Wikipedia:Dispute resolution noticeboard/Archive 88">88</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard/Archive_89" title="Wikipedia:Dispute resolution noticeboard/Archive 89">89</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard/Archive_90" title="Wikipedia:Dispute resolution noticeboard/Archive 90">90</a><br /><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard/Archive_91" title="Wikipedia:Dispute resolution noticeboard/Archive 91">91</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard/Archive_92" title="Wikipedia:Dispute resolution noticeboard/Archive 92">92</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard/Archive_93" title="Wikipedia:Dispute resolution noticeboard/Archive 93">93</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard/Archive_94" title="Wikipedia:Dispute resolution noticeboard/Archive 94">94</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard/Archive_95" title="Wikipedia:Dispute resolution noticeboard/Archive 95">95</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard/Archive_96" title="Wikipedia:Dispute resolution noticeboard/Archive 96">96</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard/Archive_97" title="Wikipedia:Dispute resolution noticeboard/Archive 97">97</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard/Archive_98" title="Wikipedia:Dispute resolution noticeboard/Archive 98">98</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard/Archive_99" title="Wikipedia:Dispute resolution noticeboard/Archive 99">99</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard/Archive_100" title="Wikipedia:Dispute resolution noticeboard/Archive 100">100</a><br /><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard/Archive_101" title="Wikipedia:Dispute resolution noticeboard/Archive 101">101</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard/Archive_102" title="Wikipedia:Dispute resolution noticeboard/Archive 102">102</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard/Archive_103" title="Wikipedia:Dispute resolution noticeboard/Archive 103">103</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard/Archive_104" title="Wikipedia:Dispute resolution noticeboard/Archive 104">104</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard/Archive_105" title="Wikipedia:Dispute resolution noticeboard/Archive 105">105</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard/Archive_106" title="Wikipedia:Dispute resolution noticeboard/Archive 106">106</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard/Archive_107" title="Wikipedia:Dispute resolution noticeboard/Archive 107">107</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard/Archive_108" title="Wikipedia:Dispute resolution noticeboard/Archive 108">108</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard/Archive_109" title="Wikipedia:Dispute resolution noticeboard/Archive 109">109</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard/Archive_110" title="Wikipedia:Dispute resolution noticeboard/Archive 110">110</a><br /><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard/Archive_111" title="Wikipedia:Dispute resolution noticeboard/Archive 111">111</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard/Archive_112" title="Wikipedia:Dispute resolution noticeboard/Archive 112">112</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard/Archive_113" title="Wikipedia:Dispute resolution noticeboard/Archive 113">113</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard/Archive_114" title="Wikipedia:Dispute resolution noticeboard/Archive 114">114</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard/Archive_115" title="Wikipedia:Dispute resolution noticeboard/Archive 115">115</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard/Archive_116" title="Wikipedia:Dispute resolution noticeboard/Archive 116">116</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard/Archive_117" title="Wikipedia:Dispute resolution noticeboard/Archive 117">117</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard/Archive_118" title="Wikipedia:Dispute resolution noticeboard/Archive 118">118</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard/Archive_119" title="Wikipedia:Dispute resolution noticeboard/Archive 119">119</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard/Archive_120" title="Wikipedia:Dispute resolution noticeboard/Archive 120">120</a><br /><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard/Archive_121" title="Wikipedia:Dispute resolution noticeboard/Archive 121">121</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard/Archive_122" title="Wikipedia:Dispute resolution noticeboard/Archive 122">122</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard/Archive_123" title="Wikipedia:Dispute resolution noticeboard/Archive 123">123</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard/Archive_124" title="Wikipedia:Dispute resolution noticeboard/Archive 124">124</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard/Archive_125" title="Wikipedia:Dispute resolution noticeboard/Archive 125">125</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard/Archive_126" title="Wikipedia:Dispute resolution noticeboard/Archive 126">126</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard/Archive_127" title="Wikipedia:Dispute resolution noticeboard/Archive 127">127</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard/Archive_128" title="Wikipedia:Dispute resolution noticeboard/Archive 128">128</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard/Archive_129" title="Wikipedia:Dispute resolution noticeboard/Archive 129">129</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard/Archive_130" title="Wikipedia:Dispute resolution noticeboard/Archive 130">130</a><br /><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard/Archive_131" title="Wikipedia:Dispute resolution noticeboard/Archive 131">131</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard/Archive_132" title="Wikipedia:Dispute resolution noticeboard/Archive 132">132</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard/Archive_133" title="Wikipedia:Dispute resolution noticeboard/Archive 133">133</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard/Archive_134" title="Wikipedia:Dispute resolution noticeboard/Archive 134">134</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard/Archive_135" title="Wikipedia:Dispute resolution noticeboard/Archive 135">135</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard/Archive_136" title="Wikipedia:Dispute resolution noticeboard/Archive 136">136</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard/Archive_137" title="Wikipedia:Dispute resolution noticeboard/Archive 137">137</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard/Archive_138" title="Wikipedia:Dispute resolution noticeboard/Archive 138">138</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard/Archive_139" title="Wikipedia:Dispute resolution noticeboard/Archive 139">139</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard/Archive_140" title="Wikipedia:Dispute resolution noticeboard/Archive 140">140</a><br /><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard/Archive_141" title="Wikipedia:Dispute resolution noticeboard/Archive 141">141</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard/Archive_142" title="Wikipedia:Dispute resolution noticeboard/Archive 142">142</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard/Archive_143" title="Wikipedia:Dispute resolution noticeboard/Archive 143">143</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard/Archive_144" title="Wikipedia:Dispute resolution noticeboard/Archive 144">144</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard/Archive_145" title="Wikipedia:Dispute resolution noticeboard/Archive 145">145</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard/Archive_146" title="Wikipedia:Dispute resolution noticeboard/Archive 146">146</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard/Archive_147" title="Wikipedia:Dispute resolution noticeboard/Archive 147">147</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard/Archive_148" title="Wikipedia:Dispute resolution noticeboard/Archive 148">148</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard/Archive_149" title="Wikipedia:Dispute resolution noticeboard/Archive 149">149</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard/Archive_150" title="Wikipedia:Dispute resolution noticeboard/Archive 150">150</a><br /><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard/Archive_151" title="Wikipedia:Dispute resolution noticeboard/Archive 151">151</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard/Archive_152" title="Wikipedia:Dispute resolution noticeboard/Archive 152">152</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard/Archive_153" title="Wikipedia:Dispute resolution noticeboard/Archive 153">153</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard/Archive_154" title="Wikipedia:Dispute resolution noticeboard/Archive 154">154</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard/Archive_155" title="Wikipedia:Dispute resolution noticeboard/Archive 155">155</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard/Archive_156" title="Wikipedia:Dispute resolution noticeboard/Archive 156">156</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard/Archive_157" title="Wikipedia:Dispute resolution noticeboard/Archive 157">157</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard/Archive_158" title="Wikipedia:Dispute resolution noticeboard/Archive 158">158</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard/Archive_159" title="Wikipedia:Dispute resolution noticeboard/Archive 159">159</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard/Archive_160" title="Wikipedia:Dispute resolution noticeboard/Archive 160">160</a><br /><a 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href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard/Archive_252" title="Wikipedia:Dispute resolution noticeboard/Archive 252">252</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard/Archive_253" title="Wikipedia:Dispute resolution noticeboard/Archive 253">253</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard/Archive_254" title="Wikipedia:Dispute resolution noticeboard/Archive 254">254</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard/Archive_255" title="Wikipedia:Dispute resolution noticeboard/Archive 255">255</a> </p> </td> </tr><tr><td style="padding-bottom:11px"><div class="mw-inputbox-centered" style=""><form name="searchbox" class="searchbox mw-inputbox-form" action="/wiki/Special:Search"><div class="cdx-text-input"><input class="mw-inputbox-input mw-searchInput searchboxInput cdx-text-input__input" name="search" placeholder="" size="22" dir="ltr" /></div><input type="hidden" value="Wikipedia:Dispute resolution noticeboard" name="prefix" /><br /><input type="submit" name="fulltext" value="Search archives" class="cdx-button" /><input type="hidden" value="Search" name="fulltext" /></form></div> </td></tr><tr><td style="padding:0px 10px; font-size:11.9px;"> <hr /> This page has archives. Sections may be automatically archived by <span class="nowraplinks"><a href="/wiki/User:Lowercase_sigmabot_III" title="User:Lowercase sigmabot III">Lowercase sigmabot III</a></span> when more than 1 section is present.</td></tr> </tbody></table> </div> <p><br /> </p> <div style="clear:left;" class=""></div> <meta property="mw:PageProp/toc" /> <div style="clear:both;" class=""></div> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading1"><h1 id="Current_disputes" data-mw-thread-id="h-Current_disputes-20250117142100"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Current_disputes-20250117142100"></span>Current disputes<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Current_disputes-20250117142100"></span></h1></div> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Wesean_Student_Federation" data-mw-thread-id="h-Wesean_Student_Federation-Current_disputes-20250117142100"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Wesean_Student_Federation-Current_disputes-20250117142100"></span>Wesean Student Federation<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Wesean_Student_Federation-Current_disputes-20250117142100"></span></h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <div style="float: right; clear: right; padding: 1px; margin: 0.2em 0 0.2em 1.4em;"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-EmeraldRange-20250117142100-Wesean_Student_Federation"></span><span style="background-color:#ECD872;border:darkgrey solid 1px;padding:4px"><span typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Pictogram_voting_comment.png" class="mw-file-description"><img src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/40/Pictogram_voting_comment.png/20px-Pictogram_voting_comment.png" decoding="async" width="20" height="20" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/40/Pictogram_voting_comment.png/30px-Pictogram_voting_comment.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/40/Pictogram_voting_comment.png/40px-Pictogram_voting_comment.png 2x" data-file-width="250" data-file-height="250" /></a></span> – This request has been placed on hold.</span></div> <div style="float: right; clear: right; margin: 0.5em 0 0.7em 1.4em;">Filed by <a href="/wiki/User:EmeraldRange" title="User:EmeraldRange">EmeraldRange</a> on <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard#c-EmeraldRange-20250117142100-Wesean_Student_Federation" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">14:21, 17 January 2025 (UTC)</a>.<span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-EmeraldRange-20250117142100-Wesean_Student_Federation"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-EmeraldRange-20250117142100-Wesean_Student_Federation"></span></div> <p><span style="font-size:110%"><b>Have you discussed this on a talk page?</b></span> </p><p>Yes, I have discussed this issue on a talk page already. </p><p><span style="font-size:110%"><b>Location of dispute</b></span> </p> <ul><li><span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wesean_Student_Federation&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Wesean Student Federation (page does not exist)">Wesean Student Federation</a> <span class="plainlinks lx">(<a href="/wiki/Special:EditPage/Wesean_Student_Federation" title="Special:EditPage/Wesean Student Federation">edit</a> | <a href="/w/index.php?title=Talk:Wesean_Student_Federation&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Talk:Wesean Student Federation (page does not exist)">talk</a> | <a href="/wiki/Special:PageHistory/Wesean_Student_Federation" title="Special:PageHistory/Wesean Student Federation">history</a> | <a href="/wiki/Special:WhatLinksHere/Wesean_Student_Federation" title="Special:WhatLinksHere/Wesean Student Federation">links</a> | <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wesean_Student_Federation&action=watch">watch</a> | <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3ALog&page=Wesean+Student+Federation">logs</a>)</span></span></li></ul> <p><span style="font-size:110%"><b>Users involved</b></span> </p> <ul><li><a href="/wiki/User:EmeraldRange" title="User:EmeraldRange">EmeraldRange</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:EmeraldRange" title="User talk:EmeraldRange">talk</a> <b>·</b> <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/EmeraldRange" title="Special:Contributions/EmeraldRange">contribs</a>)</li> <li><a href="/wiki/User:Flyingphoenixchips" title="User:Flyingphoenixchips">Flyingphoenixchips</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Flyingphoenixchips" title="User talk:Flyingphoenixchips">talk</a> <b>·</b> <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Flyingphoenixchips" title="Special:Contributions/Flyingphoenixchips">contribs</a>)</li> <li><a href="/wiki/User:Kautilya3" title="User:Kautilya3">Kautilya3</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Kautilya3" title="User talk:Kautilya3">talk</a> <b>·</b> <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Kautilya3" title="Special:Contributions/Kautilya3">contribs</a>)</li></ul> <p><span style="font-size:110%"><b>Dispute overview</b></span> </p><p>A couple days of edit warring between a couple of users, myself included. Specifically the dispute surrounds the inclusion of content regarding the etymology of "Wesea" being linked to separatist organisations. Five editors have expressed support to reduce the coverage of separatists organisations on this page about a student union solely based on incidental name similarities. One editor has consistent reverted demanding a consensus before removing content arguing that removing said content is censorship to promote an extreme POV normalising the term "Wesea". </p><p>Third party opinion was solicited, but there are more than two editors involved. I am following content resolution guidelines as parties have been mostly civil in discussing the consensus before asking for a formal RfC. </p><p>Additionally, there is a deletion discussion underway, but it is separate to this content dispute and is itself leaning towards keep (or at least not approaching a deletion consensus) </p><p><span style="font-size:110%"><b>How have you tried to resolve this dispute before coming here?</b></span> </p><p><a href="/w/index.php?title=Talk:Wesean_Student_Federation&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Talk:Wesean Student Federation (page does not exist)">Talk:Wesean Student Federation#Third Opinion requested</a>, <a href="/w/index.php?title=Talk:Wesean_Student_Federation&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Talk:Wesean Student Federation (page does not exist)">Talk:Wesean Student Federation#POV Based Content: Possible Original Research</a>, <a href="/w/index.php?title=Talk:Wesean_Student_Federation&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Talk:Wesean Student Federation (page does not exist)">Talk:Wesean Student Federation#Removal of the etymology section</a>, <a href="/w/index.php?title=Talk:Wesean_Student_Federation&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Talk:Wesean Student Federation (page does not exist)">Talk:Wesean Student Federation#Request for Review: Insurgency-Related Content</a> </p><p><span style="font-size:110%"><b>How do you think we can help resolve the dispute?</b></span> </p><p>Provide additional unbiased perspectives and review of sources to reach consensus on content dispute, or recommend more formal processes </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading4"><h4 id="Summary_of_dispute_by_Flyingphoenixchips" data-mw-thread-id="h-Summary_of_dispute_by_Flyingphoenixchips-Wesean_Student_Federation"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Summary_of_dispute_by_Flyingphoenixchips-Wesean_Student_Federation"></span>Summary of dispute by Flyingphoenixchips<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Summary_of_dispute_by_Flyingphoenixchips-Wesean_Student_Federation"></span></h4></div> <p>My argument was basically that this constitutes <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:COATRACK" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:COATRACK">WP:COATRACK</a> as the current information, gets away from its nominal subject which is the organization, and instead gives more attention to one or more connected but tangential subjects. It was alleged that by not talking about the term makes this a Fansite. There are no sources added that links the use of the term by the organisation in the context of separatism, and its not relevant to include unless a source establishes it in context of the "organization". <b>Not talking about separatists doesn't make the article a fansite because the focus remains on the student group and its activities, adhering to the topic's scope.</b> Even amongst the sources cited, they only mention Wesea once or twice <b>(Wesea is not the primary or even secondary subject of the sources)</b>, and there is no source that explicitly is only about Wesea (from what I found). However if anyone find sources, that links this particular organisation with insurgents, then for sure and definitely must include this information, protecting Wikipedia's integrity. Also as another other user had brought this up, <b>I would also agree with that user for the addition of etymology in the article, provided there are third party sources, that talks about the term in context of the Organization thats the subject of the article.</b> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading4"><h4 id="Summary_of_dispute_by_Kautilya3" data-mw-thread-id="h-Summary_of_dispute_by_Kautilya3-Wesean_Student_Federation"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Summary_of_dispute_by_Kautilya3-Wesean_Student_Federation"></span>Summary of dispute by Kautilya3<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Summary_of_dispute_by_Kautilya3-Wesean_Student_Federation"></span></h4></div> <div style="font-size:smaller">Please keep it brief - less than 2000 characters if possible, it helps us help you quicker.</div> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading3"><h3 id="Wesean_Student_Federation_discussion" data-mw-thread-id="h-Wesean_Student_Federation_discussion-Wesean_Student_Federation-20250117142900"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Wesean_Student_Federation_discussion-Wesean_Student_Federation-20250117142900"></span>Wesean Student Federation discussion<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Wesean_Student_Federation_discussion-Wesean_Student_Federation-20250117142900"></span></h3></div> <div style="font-size:smaller"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Steven_Crossin-20250117142900-Wesean_Student_Federation_discussion"></span>Please keep discussion to a minimum before being opened by a volunteer. Continue on article talk page if necessary.</div> <p>Hey there, I’m Steve, and a volunteer here at DRN. Just noting I intend to provide some assistance with this dispute, and I’ll wait for the comments of the involved editors before reviewing more fully. Also, I’ve noted the in progress AFD, so I may decide to put this on hold until there’s a clearer consensus on the status of this article, but given the good-faith dispute resolution attempts that have taken thus far, I’m not inclined to close this in just yet. Of course, if the AFD is closed as delete, this would be moot, but I agree it doesn’t look to be trending that way as of this moment. Thanks! <span style="font-family:Verdana"><a href="/wiki/User:Steven_Crossin" title="User:Steven Crossin"><span style="color:#078330">Steven</span></a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Steven_Crossin" title="User talk:Steven Crossin"><span style="color:#27a">Crossin</span></a> <sup><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:DRN/V" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:DRN/V"><span style="color:#d81">Help resolve disputes!</span></a></sup></span> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard#c-Steven_Crossin-20250117142900-Wesean_Student_Federation_discussion" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">14:29, 17 January 2025 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Steven_Crossin-20250117142900-Wesean_Student_Federation_discussion"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Steven_Crossin-20250117142900-Wesean_Student_Federation_discussion"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Steven_Crossin-20250208012300-Steven_Crossin-20250117142900"></span>Noting that the AFD is still open. Will re-evaluate once that closes in a week or so. <span style="font-family:Verdana"><a href="/wiki/User:Steven_Crossin" title="User:Steven Crossin"><span style="color:#078330">Steven</span></a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Steven_Crossin" title="User talk:Steven Crossin"><span style="color:#27a">Crossin</span></a> <sup><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:DRN/V" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:DRN/V"><span style="color:#d81">Help resolve disputes!</span></a></sup></span> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard#c-Steven_Crossin-20250208012300-Steven_Crossin-20250117142900" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:23, 8 February 2025 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Steven_Crossin-20250208012300-Steven_Crossin-20250117142900"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Steven_Crossin-20250208012300-Steven_Crossin-20250117142900"></span></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Charyapada" data-mw-thread-id="h-Charyapada-Current_disputes-20250127160400"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Charyapada-Current_disputes-20250127160400"></span>Charyapada<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Charyapada-Current_disputes-20250127160400"></span></h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <div style="float: right; clear: right; padding: 1px; margin: 0.2em 0 0.2em 1.4em;"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Ixudi-20250127160400-Charyapada"></span><span style="border:darkgrey solid 1px;padding:4px"><span typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Symbol_wait_old.png" class="mw-file-description"><img src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c3/Symbol_wait_old.png/20px-Symbol_wait_old.png" decoding="async" width="20" height="21" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c3/Symbol_wait_old.png/30px-Symbol_wait_old.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c3/Symbol_wait_old.png/40px-Symbol_wait_old.png 2x" data-file-width="180" data-file-height="185" /></a></span> – New discussion.</span></div> <div style="float: right; clear: right; margin: 0.5em 0 0.7em 1.4em;">Filed by <a href="/wiki/User:Ixudi" title="User:Ixudi">Ixudi</a> on <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard#c-Ixudi-20250127160400-Charyapada" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:04, 27 January 2025 (UTC)</a>.<span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Ixudi-20250127160400-Charyapada"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Ixudi-20250127160400-Charyapada"></span></div> <p><span style="font-size:110%"><b>Have you discussed this on a talk page?</b></span> </p><p>Yes, I have discussed this issue on a talk page already. </p><p><span style="font-size:110%"><b>Location of dispute</b></span> </p> <ul><li><span><a href="/wiki/Charyapada" title="Charyapada">Charyapada</a> <span class="plainlinks lx">(<a href="/wiki/Special:EditPage/Charyapada" title="Special:EditPage/Charyapada">edit</a> | <a href="/wiki/Talk:Charyapada" title="Talk:Charyapada">talk</a> | <a href="/wiki/Special:PageHistory/Charyapada" title="Special:PageHistory/Charyapada">history</a> | <a href="/wiki/Special:WhatLinksHere/Charyapada" title="Special:WhatLinksHere/Charyapada">links</a> | <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Charyapada&action=watch">watch</a> | <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3ALog&page=Charyapada">logs</a>)</span></span></li></ul> <p><span style="font-size:110%"><b>Users involved</b></span> </p> <ul><li><a href="/wiki/User:Ixudi" title="User:Ixudi">Ixudi</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Ixudi" title="User talk:Ixudi">talk</a> <b>·</b> <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Ixudi" title="Special:Contributions/Ixudi">contribs</a>)</li> <li><a href="/wiki/User:CharlesWain" title="User:CharlesWain">CharlesWain</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:CharlesWain" title="User talk:CharlesWain">talk</a> <b>·</b> <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/CharlesWain" title="Special:Contributions/CharlesWain">contribs</a>)</li></ul> <p><span style="font-size:110%"><b>Third Opinion editor</b></span> </p> <ul><li><a href="/wiki/User:Manuductive" title="User:Manuductive">Manuductive</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Manuductive" title="User talk:Manuductive">talk</a> <b>·</b> <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Manuductive" title="Special:Contributions/Manuductive">contribs</a>)</li></ul> <p><span style="font-size:110%"><b>Users involved</b></span> </p><p>Content dispute relating to the lead of the article. The current lead gives the impression that is emphasising the connection between the Charyapadas and Bengali. The previous lead edited by myself provided a more balanced opinion using more recent, reliable sources that there is differing opinions regarding the language of the Charyapadas: <a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Charyapada&diff=prev&oldid=1272121029">[1]</a> </p><p>I have raised this to 3rd opinion however no consensus has been reached. The other editor is now also trying to prevent edits made with reliable sources being added to the main article body. </p><p><span style="font-size:110%"><b>How have you tried to resolve this dispute before coming here?</b></span> </p><p><a href="/wiki/Talk:Charyapada#Undue_emphasis" title="Talk:Charyapada">Talk:Charyapada#Undue emphasis</a> </p><p><span style="font-size:110%"><b>How do you think we can help resolve the dispute?</b></span> </p><p>We need at least a few other editors to provide their opinion on both the current and previous versions of the article to help resolve this content dispute. </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading4"><h4 id="Summary_of_dispute_by_CharlesWain" data-mw-thread-id="h-Summary_of_dispute_by_CharlesWain-Charyapada-20250128151800"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Summary_of_dispute_by_CharlesWain-Charyapada-20250128151800"></span>Summary of dispute by CharlesWain<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Summary_of_dispute_by_CharlesWain-Charyapada-20250128151800"></span></h4></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-CharlesWain-20250128151800-Summary_of_dispute_by_CharlesWain"></span>I have already cited half a dozen reliable sources and added quotations. I believe the issue is not as contentious as my fellow editor is making it out to be. This editor removed this source of <a class="external text" href="https://en.m.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?diff=1271544879&oldid=1271520811&title=Charyapada">Ramawatar Yadav</a>, and added unsourced content. He is persistently pushing unsourced/<a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:OR" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:OR">original research</a>. I requested for wider discussion <a class="external text" href="https://en.m.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?diff=1271962175&oldid=1271958471&title=Wikipedia_talk:Noticeboard_for_India-related_topics">here</a>. Another editor Orientls rejected <a class="external text" href="https://en.m.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?diff=1272076216&oldid=1271739993&title=Charyapada">this POV</a>, But he is edit warring to re-add it. No editor is able to verify the content he is pushing, and it seems like misrepresentation of source. Scholars generally agree that Charyapada is the ancestor of three languages- Assamese, Bengali, Odia. Some scholars even include Maithili. But these opinions can not be said to be contradictory because as per scholars these languages are related to each other, or <a href="/wiki/Dialect_continuum" title="Dialect continuum">Dialect continuum</a>. I have again quoted from reliable <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:TERTIARY" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:TERTIARY">tertiary sources</a>, as due weight can be easily determined from these. Please check <a href="/wiki/Talk:Charyapada#DUE_and_TERTIARY_source" title="Talk:Charyapada">Talk: Charyapada #DUE and TERTIARY source</a>. Thanks.<a href="/wiki/User:CharlesWain" title="User:CharlesWain">CharlesWain</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:CharlesWain" title="User talk:CharlesWain">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard#c-CharlesWain-20250128151800-Summary_of_dispute_by_CharlesWain" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:18, 28 January 2025 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-CharlesWain-20250128151800-Summary_of_dispute_by_CharlesWain"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-CharlesWain-20250128151800-Summary_of_dispute_by_CharlesWain"></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading3"><h3 id="Charyapada_discussion" data-mw-thread-id="h-Charyapada_discussion-Charyapada-20250127175100"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Charyapada_discussion-Charyapada-20250127175100"></span>Charyapada discussion<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Charyapada_discussion-Charyapada-20250127175100"></span></h3></div> <div style="font-size:smaller"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Robert_McClenon-20250127175100-Charyapada_discussion"></span>Please keep discussion to a minimum before being opened by a volunteer. Continue on article talk page if necessary.</div> <ul><li><b>Volunteer Note</b> - It appears that a <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:3O" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:3O">Third Opinion</a> was provided. The editor who provided the Third Opinion should be included in any discussion. Also, the filing editor says that "consensus has been reached". Is that based on the Third Opinion? I am neither opening nor closing this case at this time, but any discussion should include all of the editors who have been involved. <a href="/wiki/User:Robert_McClenon" title="User:Robert McClenon">Robert McClenon</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Robert_McClenon" title="User talk:Robert McClenon">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard#c-Robert_McClenon-20250127175100-Charyapada_discussion" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:51, 27 January 2025 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Robert_McClenon-20250127175100-Charyapada_discussion"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Robert_McClenon-20250127175100-Charyapada_discussion"></span></li></ul> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Ixudi-20250127181800-Robert_McClenon-20250127175100"></span>Apologies. That’s a typo. I meant “no consensus”. Will fix now. <a href="/wiki/User:Ixudi" title="User:Ixudi">Ixudi</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Ixudi" title="User talk:Ixudi">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard#c-Ixudi-20250127181800-Robert_McClenon-20250127175100" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:18, 27 January 2025 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Ixudi-20250127181800-Robert_McClenon-20250127175100"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Ixudi-20250127181800-Robert_McClenon-20250127175100"></span></dd></dl> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Steven_Crossin-20250127190200-Robert_McClenon-20250127175100"></span>Hi there, I’m Steve, and I’m one of the volunteer mediators here at DRN. Thanks for providing some context on this dispute. I’ll await the other editor to post a brief summary here first, but noting my intention to take a look at this one pending that. As there’s a disagreement about the lede section, this might end up being an ideal one to use my workshop method to draft proposed revisions, but I’ll wait for the other editor. Thanks! <span style="font-family:Verdana"><a href="/wiki/User:Steven_Crossin" title="User:Steven Crossin"><span style="color:#078330">Steven</span></a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Steven_Crossin" title="User talk:Steven Crossin"><span style="color:#27a">Crossin</span></a> <sup><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:DRN/V" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:DRN/V"><span style="color:#d81">Help resolve disputes!</span></a></sup></span> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard#c-Steven_Crossin-20250127190200-Robert_McClenon-20250127175100" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:02, 27 January 2025 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Steven_Crossin-20250127190200-Robert_McClenon-20250127175100"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Steven_Crossin-20250127190200-Robert_McClenon-20250127175100"></span></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading3"><h3 id="Statement_by_Third_Opinion_editor_Manuductive" data-mw-thread-id="h-Statement_by_Third_Opinion_editor_Manuductive-Charyapada-20250127201800"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Statement_by_Third_Opinion_editor_Manuductive-Charyapada-20250127201800"></span>Statement by Third Opinion editor Manuductive<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Statement_by_Third_Opinion_editor_Manuductive-Charyapada-20250127201800"></span></h3></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Manuductive-20250127201800-Statement_by_Third_Opinion_editor_Manuductive"></span>It seems like this is a contentious topic with scholarly opinion divided along ethnic lines regarding the question of which particular contemporary language has the best claim to being the successor to the language that the Charyapada was written in. I wasn't able to discern myself what the appropriate weights ought to be for the different points of view (although there is quite a bit out there saying that Bengali should take it) so I suggested that they get into a mediation over it. It seems like the article already acknowledges the nuanced reality of it, how the Charyapada had contributions of authors from a variety of different dialects and vernaculars of the day, and in a time when the languages of the region had yet to differentiate into the forms we see today, making it a bit difficult to pin down a decisive answer to the contemporary dispute. I think it's important to distinguish between the original oral tradition that it probably started out with (these were chants or songs) in a variety of different vernaculars, before being ultimately written down in a particular language. <small class="autosigned">— Preceding <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Signatures" title="Wikipedia:Signatures">unsigned</a> comment added by <a href="/wiki/User:Manuductive" title="User:Manuductive">Manuductive</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Manuductive#top" title="User talk:Manuductive">talk</a> • <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Manuductive" title="Special:Contributions/Manuductive">contribs</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard#c-Manuductive-20250127201800-Statement_by_Third_Opinion_editor_Manuductive" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:18, 27 January 2025 (UTC)</a></small><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Manuductive-20250127201800-Statement_by_Third_Opinion_editor_Manuductive"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Manuductive-20250127201800-Statement_by_Third_Opinion_editor_Manuductive"></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Malcolm_Sargent" data-mw-thread-id="h-Malcolm_Sargent-Current_disputes-20250127222800"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Malcolm_Sargent-Current_disputes-20250127222800"></span>Malcolm Sargent<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Malcolm_Sargent-Current_disputes-20250127222800"></span></h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <div style="float: right; clear: right; padding: 1px; margin: 0.2em 0 0.2em 1.4em;"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-CurryTime7-24-20250127222800-Malcolm_Sargent"></span><span style="background-color:#d0f0c0;border:darkgrey solid 1px;padding:4px"><span typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Pictogram_voting_keep-green.svg" class="mw-file-description"><img src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/84/Pictogram_voting_keep-green.svg/20px-Pictogram_voting_keep-green.svg.png" decoding="async" width="20" height="20" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/84/Pictogram_voting_keep-green.svg/30px-Pictogram_voting_keep-green.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/84/Pictogram_voting_keep-green.svg/40px-Pictogram_voting_keep-green.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="256" data-file-height="256" /></a></span> Dispute resolved successfully. See comments for reasoning.</span></div> <div style="float: right; clear: right; margin: 0.5em 0 0.7em 1.4em;">Filed by <a href="/wiki/User:CurryTime7-24" title="User:CurryTime7-24">CurryTime7-24</a> on <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard#c-CurryTime7-24-20250127222800-Malcolm_Sargent" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:28, 27 January 2025 (UTC)</a>.<span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-CurryTime7-24-20250127222800-Malcolm_Sargent"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-CurryTime7-24-20250127222800-Malcolm_Sargent"></span></div> <div style="margin-left:0px"> <span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Robert_McClenon-20250218200400-Malcolm_Sargent"></span><link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1238436933" /><table class="box-Notice plainlinks ombox ombox-notice" role="presentation"><tbody><tr><td class="mbox-image"><span typeof="mw:File"><span><img alt="" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/1/1d/Information_icon4.svg/40px-Information_icon4.svg.png" decoding="async" width="40" height="40" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/1/1d/Information_icon4.svg/60px-Information_icon4.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/1/1d/Information_icon4.svg/80px-Information_icon4.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="620" data-file-height="620" /></span></span></td><td class="mbox-text" style="text-align: left;">Closed as resolved. There was no disagreement with the wording proposed by CurryTime7-24, which maintains <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:V" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:V">verifiability</a> and <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:NPOV" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:NPOV">neutral point of view</a> by using the words used by the commenters. <a href="/wiki/User:Robert_McClenon" title="User:Robert McClenon">Robert McClenon</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Robert_McClenon" title="User talk:Robert McClenon">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard#c-Robert_McClenon-20250218200400-Malcolm_Sargent" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:04, 18 February 2025 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Robert_McClenon-20250218200400-Malcolm_Sargent"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Robert_McClenon-20250218200400-Malcolm_Sargent"></span></td></tr></tbody></table> <table class="mw-collapsible mw-collapsed mw-archivedtalk" style="width: 100%; border: 1px solid silver; margin-top: 0.2em;"> <tbody><tr> <th style="background-color: #CFC; font-size:112%;">Closed discussion </th></tr> <tr> <td style="border: solid 1px silver; padding: 8px; background-color: white;"> <div class="boilerplate metadata" style="background-color: #edeaff; padding: 0px 10px 0px 10px; border: 1px solid #8779DD;"> <dl><dd><i>The following discussion is closed. <span style="color:red"><b>Please do not modify it.</b></span> Subsequent comments should be made on the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard" title="Wikipedia talk:Dispute resolution noticeboard">dispute resolution noticeboard's talk page</a>. No further edits should be made to this discussion.</i></dd></dl> <hr /> <p><span style="font-size:110%"><b>Have you discussed this on a talk page?</b></span> </p><p>Yes, I have discussed this issue on a talk page already. </p><p><span style="font-size:110%"><b>Location of dispute</b></span> </p> <ul><li><span><a href="/wiki/Malcolm_Sargent" title="Malcolm Sargent">Malcolm Sargent</a> <span class="plainlinks lx">(<a href="/wiki/Special:EditPage/Malcolm_Sargent" title="Special:EditPage/Malcolm Sargent">edit</a> | <a href="/wiki/Talk:Malcolm_Sargent" title="Talk:Malcolm Sargent">talk</a> | <a href="/wiki/Special:PageHistory/Malcolm_Sargent" title="Special:PageHistory/Malcolm Sargent">history</a> | <a href="/wiki/Special:WhatLinksHere/Malcolm_Sargent" title="Special:WhatLinksHere/Malcolm Sargent">links</a> | <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Malcolm_Sargent&action=watch">watch</a> | <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3ALog&page=Malcolm+Sargent">logs</a>)</span></span></li></ul> <p><span style="font-size:110%"><b>Users involved</b></span> </p> <ul><li><a href="/wiki/User:CurryTime7-24" title="User:CurryTime7-24">CurryTime7-24</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:CurryTime7-24" title="User talk:CurryTime7-24">talk</a> <b>·</b> <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/CurryTime7-24" title="Special:Contributions/CurryTime7-24">contribs</a>)</li> <li><a href="/wiki/User:Ssilvers" title="User:Ssilvers">Ssilvers</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Ssilvers" title="User talk:Ssilvers">talk</a> <b>·</b> <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Ssilvers" title="Special:Contributions/Ssilvers">contribs</a>)</li> <li><a href="/wiki/User:Tim_riley" title="User:Tim riley">Tim riley</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Tim_riley" title="User talk:Tim riley">talk</a> <b>·</b> <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Tim_riley" title="Special:Contributions/Tim riley">contribs</a>)</li> <li><a href="/wiki/User:SchroCat" title="User:SchroCat">SchroCat</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:SchroCat" title="User talk:SchroCat">talk</a> <b>·</b> <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/SchroCat" title="Special:Contributions/SchroCat">contribs</a>)</li> <li><a href="/wiki/User:Hugh7" title="User:Hugh7">Hugh7</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Hugh7" title="User talk:Hugh7">talk</a> <b>·</b> <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Hugh7" title="Special:Contributions/Hugh7">contribs</a>)</li></ul> <p><span style="font-size:110%"><b>Dispute overview</b></span> </p><p>The first paragraph of the "Private life" section, which discusses subject's marriage and extramarital relationships, concludes: "Less savory encounters are alluded to by the young woman who said, 'Promise me that whatever happens I shan't have to go home alone in a taxi with Malcolm Sargent.'" The implication of this passage is uncertain. Given the context of both article and cited source, it could either imply that the subject was a persistent womanizer or that his behavior was possibly criminal. Unfortunately, sources are also vague on this matter and open to interpretation. It seemed to me that the passage could be removed based on <a href="/wiki/MOS:EUPHEMISM" class="mw-redirect" title="MOS:EUPHEMISM">MOS:EUPHEMISM</a>, <a href="/wiki/MOS:WEASEL" class="mw-redirect" title="MOS:WEASEL">MOS:WEASEL</a>; or that the accusations needed to be substantiated or at least attributed, rather than presented in wikivoice. My edits were reverted by two other editors; in the article talk page, another has voiced their objections to my concerns. If I'm wrong on this matter or if my behavior has not been conducive to collaboration, I'm ready to apologize to other involved editors and refrain from making any further edits to this article. </p><p><span style="font-size:110%"><b>How have you tried to resolve this dispute before coming here?</b></span> </p><p><a href="/wiki/Talk:Malcolm_Sargent#Some_room_for_improvement..." title="Talk:Malcolm Sargent">Talk:Malcolm Sargent#Some room for improvement...</a> </p><p><span style="font-size:110%"><b>How do you think we can help resolve the dispute?</b></span> </p><p>A proposal to either keep the passage in question as is, eliminate it, or help provide a reworded compromise version that appeases the concerns of everybody involved. </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading4"><h4 id="Summary_of_dispute_by_Ssilvers" data-mw-thread-id="h-Summary_of_dispute_by_Ssilvers-Malcolm_Sargent-20250128063800"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Summary_of_dispute_by_Ssilvers-Malcolm_Sargent-20250128063800"></span>Summary of dispute by Ssilvers<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Summary_of_dispute_by_Ssilvers-Malcolm_Sargent-20250128063800"></span></h4></div> <div style="font-size:smaller"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Ssilvers-20250128063800-Summary_of_dispute_by_Ssilvers"></span>Please keep it brief - less than 2000 characters if possible, it helps us help you quicker.</div> <p>The article attempts to summarize Sargent's reputation as a cad who would, for example, touch women sexually in taxis, or at least this was such common knowledge at the time that women were afraid this would happen. It is true that the press of the time was not explicit in reporting what, exactly, Sargent did to these women, but the article summarizes the sources at no more than appropriate length (and probably more ink would be warranted about Sargent's reputation as a "bounder", but it would also suffer from the vague way in which such allegations were reported in the press of the day). Deleting the sentence would be highly misleading. The person who initiated this DRN has been requested more than once to supply any better/clearer sources that they can find, but apparently they have not found any. -- <a href="/wiki/User:Ssilvers" title="User:Ssilvers">Ssilvers</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Ssilvers" title="User talk:Ssilvers">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard#c-Ssilvers-20250128063800-Summary_of_dispute_by_Ssilvers" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">06:38, 28 January 2025 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Ssilvers-20250128063800-Summary_of_dispute_by_Ssilvers"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Ssilvers-20250128063800-Summary_of_dispute_by_Ssilvers"></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading4"><h4 id="Summary_of_dispute_by_Tim_riley" data-mw-thread-id="h-Summary_of_dispute_by_Tim_riley-Malcolm_Sargent-20250128094800"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Summary_of_dispute_by_Tim_riley-Malcolm_Sargent-20250128094800"></span>Summary of dispute by Tim riley<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Summary_of_dispute_by_Tim_riley-Malcolm_Sargent-20250128094800"></span></h4></div> <div style="font-size:smaller"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Tim_riley-20250128094800-Summary_of_dispute_by_Tim_riley"></span>Please keep it brief - less than 2000 characters if possible, it helps us help you quicker.</div> <p>We have provided the complainant with an impeccable corroborative second source for the allegation that women feared to go in taxis with Sargent. The description "Less savoury" (not "savory", which is a herb) was added in March last year by an editor who has not been invited to the present discussion. The previous text (drafted by me, I think) was "More casual" but the alteration seemed and still seems to me appropriate. We cannot know precisely what Sargent was guilty of but the sources are wholly clear that it was something reprehensible and non-consensual. <s>The complainant falsely claims in his/her last edit summary not to have access to the cited source despite being informed that it is available in the Internet Archive.</s> (Chronological sequence of exchanges: that edit summary came before the complainant was told where to go to find the source.) <b><span style="font-family:Trebuchet MS;"><a href="/wiki/User:Tim_riley" title="User:Tim riley"><span style="color:# 660066">Tim riley</span></a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Tim_riley" title="User talk:Tim riley"><span style="color:#848484"> talk</span></a></span></b> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard#c-Tim_riley-20250128094800-Summary_of_dispute_by_Tim_riley" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">09:48, 28 January 2025 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Tim_riley-20250128094800-Summary_of_dispute_by_Tim_riley"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Tim_riley-20250128094800-Summary_of_dispute_by_Tim_riley"></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading4"><h4 id="Summary_of_dispute_by_SchroCat" data-mw-thread-id="h-Summary_of_dispute_by_SchroCat-Malcolm_Sargent-20250127225900"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Summary_of_dispute_by_SchroCat-Malcolm_Sargent-20250127225900"></span>Summary of dispute by SchroCat<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Summary_of_dispute_by_SchroCat-Malcolm_Sargent-20250127225900"></span></h4></div> <div style="font-size:smaller"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-SchroCat-20250127225900-Summary_of_dispute_by_SchroCat"></span>Please keep it brief - less than 2000 characters if possible, it helps us help you quicker.</div> <p>The passage reflects the sources, which is all we can do as editors. If the sources do not go into the details, we can’t just make them up to satisfy one editor’s needs. Removal would be a poor step. These are matters that are reported in more than one source, so it would be dishonest of us to censor this aspect of the subject. - <a href="/wiki/User:SchroCat" title="User:SchroCat">SchroCat</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:SchroCat" title="User talk:SchroCat">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard#c-SchroCat-20250127225900-Summary_of_dispute_by_SchroCat" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:59, 27 January 2025 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-SchroCat-20250127225900-Summary_of_dispute_by_SchroCat"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-SchroCat-20250127225900-Summary_of_dispute_by_SchroCat"></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading3"><h3 id="Malcolm_Sargent_discussion" data-mw-thread-id="h-Malcolm_Sargent_discussion-Malcolm_Sargent"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Malcolm_Sargent_discussion-Malcolm_Sargent"></span>Malcolm Sargent discussion<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Malcolm_Sargent_discussion-Malcolm_Sargent"></span></h3></div> <div style="font-size:smaller">Please keep discussion to a minimum before being opened by a volunteer. Continue on article talk page if necessary.</div> <p><br /> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading3"><h3 id="Zeroth_statement_by_volunteer_(Malcolm_Sargent)" data-mw-thread-id="h-Zeroth_statement_by_volunteer_(Malcolm_Sargent)-Malcolm_Sargent-20250204152300"><span id="Zeroth_statement_by_volunteer_.28Malcolm_Sargent.29"></span><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Zeroth_statement_by_volunteer_(Malcolm_Sargent)-Malcolm_Sargent-20250204152300"></span>Zeroth statement by volunteer (Malcolm Sargent)<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Zeroth_statement_by_volunteer_(Malcolm_Sargent)-Malcolm_Sargent-20250204152300"></span></h3></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Robert_McClenon-20250204152300-Zeroth_statement_by_volunteer_(Malcolm_Sargent)"></span>I am ready to try to facilitate the resolution of this dispute. I will start by asking my usual opening question. The purpose of moderated discussion, or any activity intended to resolve a content dispute, is to improve the article. Please state what changes you want to make to the article that another editor wants to leave the same, or what you want to leave unchanged that another editor wants to change. It appears that the main issue is how to summarize Malcolm Sargent's reputation for what in the twenty-first century would be called sexual harassment. </p><p>Are there any other issues? Are there any questions? <a href="/wiki/User:Robert_McClenon" title="User:Robert McClenon">Robert McClenon</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Robert_McClenon" title="User talk:Robert McClenon">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard#c-Robert_McClenon-20250204152300-Zeroth_statement_by_volunteer_(Malcolm_Sargent)" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:23, 4 February 2025 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Robert_McClenon-20250204152300-Zeroth_statement_by_volunteer_(Malcolm_Sargent)"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Robert_McClenon-20250204152300-Zeroth_statement_by_volunteer_(Malcolm_Sargent)"></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading3"><h3 id="Zeroth_statements_by_editors_(Malcolm_Sargent)" data-mw-thread-id="h-Zeroth_statements_by_editors_(Malcolm_Sargent)-Malcolm_Sargent-20250205195700"><span id="Zeroth_statements_by_editors_.28Malcolm_Sargent.29"></span><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Zeroth_statements_by_editors_(Malcolm_Sargent)-Malcolm_Sargent-20250205195700"></span>Zeroth statements by editors (Malcolm Sargent)<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Zeroth_statements_by_editors_(Malcolm_Sargent)-Malcolm_Sargent-20250205195700"></span></h3></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-CurryTime7-24-20250205195700-Zeroth_statements_by_editors_(Malcolm_Sargent)"></span>"Less savory encounters are alluded to" needs to be clearly explained per <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:EUPHEMISM" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:EUPHEMISM">WP:EUPHEMISM</a>. However, both sources that I've consulted (one of which is cited in the article) at best only <i>possibly</i> imply "sexual harassment". <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://www.classical-music.com/features/artists/malcolm-sargent">One which was presented in the talk page</a> states that Sargent was a "terror to women", but this occurs in a section titled "Extramarital liaisons", the implication then that this remark was in reference to his indefatigable womanizing. The use of "bounder" in the cited source suggests as much (adultery was viewed far more negatively in Sargent's time). Affirming or even implying one interpretation over the other, however, is <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:SYNTH" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:SYNTH">WP:SYNTH</a>. </p><p>Ideally, the passage would be reworded so as to adhere strictly to what the sources say and let the reader make up their own minds. Something like: "According to the music critic <a href="/wiki/Michael_Kennedy_(music_critic)" title="Michael Kennedy (music critic)">Michael Kennedy</a>, Sargent was 'a terror to women'. In a letter to <a href="/wiki/George_Lyttelton_(teacher)" title="George Lyttelton (teacher)">George Lyttelton</a>, Sir <a href="/wiki/Rupert_Hart-Davis" title="Rupert Hart-Davis">Rupert Hart-Davis</a> recalled a young woman he once met at a party who approached him with a request: 'Promise me that whatever happens I shan't have to go home alone in a taxi with Malcolm Sargent'." </p><p>No other questions at this time. There were other disputes in the talk page, but this was the biggest one. I'm confident that if this is resolved, the others can be worked on in amicable collaboration. —<a href="/wiki/User:CurryTime7-24" title="User:CurryTime7-24">CurryTime7-24</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:CurryTime7-24" title="User talk:CurryTime7-24">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard#c-CurryTime7-24-20250205195700-Zeroth_statements_by_editors_(Malcolm_Sargent)" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:57, 5 February 2025 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-CurryTime7-24-20250205195700-Zeroth_statements_by_editors_(Malcolm_Sargent)"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-CurryTime7-24-20250205195700-Zeroth_statements_by_editors_(Malcolm_Sargent)"></span> </p><p><br /> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading3"><h3 id="First_statement_by_moderator_(Malcolm_Sargent)" data-mw-thread-id="h-First_statement_by_moderator_(Malcolm_Sargent)-Malcolm_Sargent-20250209014600"><span id="First_statement_by_moderator_.28Malcolm_Sargent.29"></span><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-First_statement_by_moderator_(Malcolm_Sargent)-Malcolm_Sargent-20250209014600"></span>First statement by moderator (Malcolm Sargent)<span data-mw-comment-end="h-First_statement_by_moderator_(Malcolm_Sargent)-Malcolm_Sargent-20250209014600"></span></h3></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Robert_McClenon-20250209014600-First_statement_by_moderator_(Malcolm_Sargent)"></span>The only editor who has commented is <a href="/wiki/User:CurryTime7-24" title="User:CurryTime7-24">User:CurryTime7-24</a>, who has made what seems to be a reasonable suggestion to state exactly what the sources say that two people said about <a href="/wiki/Malcolm_Sargent" title="Malcolm Sargent">Malcolm Sargent</a>. Does anyone disagree? If no one disagrees, I will close this discussion by saying that there is a rough consensus (one-to-zero is a rough consensus) to change the wording as proposed. </p><p>Are there any other questions? <a href="/wiki/User:Robert_McClenon" title="User:Robert McClenon">Robert McClenon</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Robert_McClenon" title="User talk:Robert McClenon">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard#c-Robert_McClenon-20250209014600-First_statement_by_moderator_(Malcolm_Sargent)" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:46, 9 February 2025 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Robert_McClenon-20250209014600-First_statement_by_moderator_(Malcolm_Sargent)"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Robert_McClenon-20250209014600-First_statement_by_moderator_(Malcolm_Sargent)"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Tim_riley-20250212182500-Robert_McClenon-20250209014600"></span>I should feel unhappy if the editor who made the change to which CurryTime724 objects, <a href="/wiki/User:Hugh7" title="User:Hugh7">User:Hugh7</a>, were not consulted before his/her addition is reverted. <b><span style="font-family:Trebuchet MS;"><a href="/wiki/User:Tim_riley" title="User:Tim riley"><span style="color:# 660066">Tim riley</span></a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Tim_riley" title="User talk:Tim riley"><span style="color:#848484"> talk</span></a></span></b> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard#c-Tim_riley-20250212182500-Robert_McClenon-20250209014600" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:25, 12 February 2025 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Tim_riley-20250212182500-Robert_McClenon-20250209014600"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Tim_riley-20250212182500-Robert_McClenon-20250209014600"></span></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading3"><h3 id="First_statements_by_editors_(Malcolm_Sargent)" data-mw-thread-id="h-First_statements_by_editors_(Malcolm_Sargent)-Malcolm_Sargent-20250212185200"><span id="First_statements_by_editors_.28Malcolm_Sargent.29"></span><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-First_statements_by_editors_(Malcolm_Sargent)-Malcolm_Sargent-20250212185200"></span>First statements by editors (Malcolm Sargent)<span data-mw-comment-end="h-First_statements_by_editors_(Malcolm_Sargent)-Malcolm_Sargent-20250212185200"></span></h3></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-CurryTime7-24-20250212185200-First_statements_by_editors_(Malcolm_Sargent)"></span>I can wait a few more days for the other editor to chime in, although their edit history suggests that they contribute sporadically and, therefore, may not reply in a timely fashion. Even if they do, the problem at hand remains: their edit merely replaced one euphemistic phrasing and synthesized implication with another. My proposed alteration is clear, adheres strictly to what the sources say, and eliminates any persuasive language or synthesis. Aside from this, I have no further questions and concerns. All other outstanding issues can be resolved amicably in the article talk page. If not, we can always come back to the DRN. :) —<a href="/wiki/User:CurryTime7-24" title="User:CurryTime7-24">CurryTime7-24</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:CurryTime7-24" title="User talk:CurryTime7-24">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard#c-CurryTime7-24-20250212185200-First_statements_by_editors_(Malcolm_Sargent)" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:52, 12 February 2025 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-CurryTime7-24-20250212185200-First_statements_by_editors_(Malcolm_Sargent)"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-CurryTime7-24-20250212185200-First_statements_by_editors_(Malcolm_Sargent)"></span> </p><p><br /> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading3"><h3 id="Second_statement_by_moderator_(Malcolm_Sargent)" data-mw-thread-id="h-Second_statement_by_moderator_(Malcolm_Sargent)-Malcolm_Sargent-20250213045400"><span id="Second_statement_by_moderator_.28Malcolm_Sargent.29"></span><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Second_statement_by_moderator_(Malcolm_Sargent)-Malcolm_Sargent-20250213045400"></span>Second statement by moderator (Malcolm Sargent)<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Second_statement_by_moderator_(Malcolm_Sargent)-Malcolm_Sargent-20250213045400"></span></h3></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Robert_McClenon-20250213045400-Second_statement_by_moderator_(Malcolm_Sargent)"></span>I am confused. Have I missed something, or has <a href="/wiki/User:Tim_riley" title="User:Tim riley">User:Tim riley</a> missed something? Tim riley writes: <style data-mw-deduplicate="TemplateStyles:r1248585704">@media screen{html.skin-theme-clientpref-night .mw-parser-output .inline-quote-talk{color:#00B785}}@media screen and (prefers-color-scheme:dark){html.skin-theme-clientpref-os .mw-parser-output .inline-quote-talk{color:#00B785}}.mw-parser-output .inline-quote-talk{font-family:Georgia,"DejaVu Serif",serif;color:#008560;quotes:none}.mw-parser-output .inline-quote-talk-italic{font-family:inherit;font-style:italic}.mw-parser-output .inline-quote-talk-marks{quotes:"\"""\""}</style><q class="inline-quote-talk">I should feel unhappy if the editor who made the change to which CurryTime724 objects, <a href="/wiki/User:Hugh7" title="User:Hugh7">User:Hugh7</a>, were not consulted before his/her addition is reverted.</q> I don't see any edits by Hugh7 either to the article or to the talk page. Please provide me with a diff or a link to the edit that CurryTime7-24 is taking issue with. </p><p>Are there any other questions? <a href="/wiki/User:Robert_McClenon" title="User:Robert McClenon">Robert McClenon</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Robert_McClenon" title="User talk:Robert McClenon">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard#c-Robert_McClenon-20250213045400-Second_statement_by_moderator_(Malcolm_Sargent)" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">04:54, 13 February 2025 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Robert_McClenon-20250213045400-Second_statement_by_moderator_(Malcolm_Sargent)"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Robert_McClenon-20250213045400-Second_statement_by_moderator_(Malcolm_Sargent)"></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading3"><h3 id="Second_statements_by_editors_(Malcolm_Sargent)" data-mw-thread-id="h-Second_statements_by_editors_(Malcolm_Sargent)-Malcolm_Sargent-20250213051800"><span id="Second_statements_by_editors_.28Malcolm_Sargent.29"></span><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Second_statements_by_editors_(Malcolm_Sargent)-Malcolm_Sargent-20250213051800"></span>Second statements by editors (Malcolm Sargent)<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Second_statements_by_editors_(Malcolm_Sargent)-Malcolm_Sargent-20250213051800"></span></h3></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-CurryTime7-24-20250213051800-Second_statements_by_editors_(Malcolm_Sargent)"></span>I think <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Malcolm_Sargent&diff=prev&oldid=1211329455">this is the edit in question</a>. —<a href="/wiki/User:CurryTime7-24" title="User:CurryTime7-24">CurryTime7-24</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:CurryTime7-24" title="User talk:CurryTime7-24">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard#c-CurryTime7-24-20250213051800-Second_statements_by_editors_(Malcolm_Sargent)" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">05:18, 13 February 2025 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-CurryTime7-24-20250213051800-Second_statements_by_editors_(Malcolm_Sargent)"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-CurryTime7-24-20250213051800-Second_statements_by_editors_(Malcolm_Sargent)"></span> </p><p><br /> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading3"><h3 id="Third_statement_by_moderator_(Malcolm_Sargent)" data-mw-thread-id="h-Third_statement_by_moderator_(Malcolm_Sargent)-Malcolm_Sargent-20250213061400"><span id="Third_statement_by_moderator_.28Malcolm_Sargent.29"></span><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Third_statement_by_moderator_(Malcolm_Sargent)-Malcolm_Sargent-20250213061400"></span>Third statement by moderator (Malcolm Sargent)<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Third_statement_by_moderator_(Malcolm_Sargent)-Malcolm_Sargent-20250213061400"></span></h3></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Robert_McClenon-20250213061400-Third_statement_by_moderator_(Malcolm_Sargent)"></span>I asked if I had missed something. I missed something, and was shown something that I had missed. It was one edit, almost a year ago. I will add <a href="/wiki/User:Hugh7" title="User:Hugh7">User:Hugh7</a> to the list of participants and invite them to this discussion. </p><p>I will again ask whether there is any objection to the wording proposed by <a href="/wiki/User:CurryTime7-24" title="User:CurryTime7-24">User:CurryTime7-24</a>, which maintains <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:V" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:V">verifiability</a>. </p><p>Are there any other questions? <a href="/wiki/User:Robert_McClenon" title="User:Robert McClenon">Robert McClenon</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Robert_McClenon" title="User talk:Robert McClenon">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard#c-Robert_McClenon-20250213061400-Third_statement_by_moderator_(Malcolm_Sargent)" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">06:14, 13 February 2025 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Robert_McClenon-20250213061400-Third_statement_by_moderator_(Malcolm_Sargent)"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Robert_McClenon-20250213061400-Third_statement_by_moderator_(Malcolm_Sargent)"></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading3"><h3 id="Third_statements_by_editors_(Malcolm_Sargent)" data-mw-thread-id="h-Third_statements_by_editors_(Malcolm_Sargent)-Malcolm_Sargent"><span id="Third_statements_by_editors_.28Malcolm_Sargent.29"></span><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Third_statements_by_editors_(Malcolm_Sargent)-Malcolm_Sargent"></span>Third statements by editors (Malcolm Sargent)<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Third_statements_by_editors_(Malcolm_Sargent)-Malcolm_Sargent"></span></h3></div> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading3"><h3 id="Fourth_statement_by_moderator_(Malcolm_Sargent)" data-mw-thread-id="h-Fourth_statement_by_moderator_(Malcolm_Sargent)-Malcolm_Sargent-20250217053400"><span id="Fourth_statement_by_moderator_.28Malcolm_Sargent.29"></span><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Fourth_statement_by_moderator_(Malcolm_Sargent)-Malcolm_Sargent-20250217053400"></span>Fourth statement by moderator (Malcolm Sargent)<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Fourth_statement_by_moderator_(Malcolm_Sargent)-Malcolm_Sargent-20250217053400"></span></h3></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Robert_McClenon-20250217053400-Fourth_statement_by_moderator_(Malcolm_Sargent)"></span>I will be closing this thread in 24 hours as resolved by the acceptance of the wording proposed by CurryTime24-7, which maintains <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:NPOV" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:NPOV">neutral point of view</a> and <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:V" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:V">verifiability</a>. <a href="/wiki/User:Robert_McClenon" title="User:Robert McClenon">Robert McClenon</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Robert_McClenon" title="User talk:Robert McClenon">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard#c-Robert_McClenon-20250217053400-Fourth_statement_by_moderator_(Malcolm_Sargent)" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">05:34, 17 February 2025 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Robert_McClenon-20250217053400-Fourth_statement_by_moderator_(Malcolm_Sargent)"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Robert_McClenon-20250217053400-Fourth_statement_by_moderator_(Malcolm_Sargent)"></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading3"><h3 id="Fourth_statements_by_editors_(Malcolm_Sargent)" data-mw-thread-id="h-Fourth_statements_by_editors_(Malcolm_Sargent)-Malcolm_Sargent"><span id="Fourth_statements_by_editors_.28Malcolm_Sargent.29"></span><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Fourth_statements_by_editors_(Malcolm_Sargent)-Malcolm_Sargent"></span>Fourth statements by editors (Malcolm Sargent)<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Fourth_statements_by_editors_(Malcolm_Sargent)-Malcolm_Sargent"></span></h3></div> <hr /> <dl><dd><i>The discussion above is closed. <span style="color:red"><b>Please do not modify it.</b></span> Subsequent comments should be made on the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard" title="Wikipedia talk:Dispute resolution noticeboard">dispute resolution noticeboard's talk page</a>. No further edits should be made to this discussion.</i></dd></dl></div> </td></tr></tbody></table></div> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Taylor_Lorenz" data-mw-thread-id="h-Taylor_Lorenz-Current_disputes-20250130003300"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Taylor_Lorenz-Current_disputes-20250130003300"></span>Taylor Lorenz<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Taylor_Lorenz-Current_disputes-20250130003300"></span></h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <div style="float: right; clear: right; padding: 1px; margin: 0.2em 0 0.2em 1.4em;"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Delectopierre-20250130003300-Taylor_Lorenz"></span><span style="background-color:#ECD872;border:darkgrey solid 1px;padding:4px"><span typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Pictogram_voting_comment.png" class="mw-file-description"><img src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/40/Pictogram_voting_comment.png/20px-Pictogram_voting_comment.png" decoding="async" width="20" height="20" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/40/Pictogram_voting_comment.png/30px-Pictogram_voting_comment.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/40/Pictogram_voting_comment.png/40px-Pictogram_voting_comment.png 2x" data-file-width="250" data-file-height="250" /></a></span> – This request has been placed on hold.</span></div> <div style="float: right; clear: right; margin: 0.5em 0 0.7em 1.4em;">Filed by <a href="/wiki/User:Delectopierre" title="User:Delectopierre">Delectopierre</a> on <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard#c-Delectopierre-20250130003300-Taylor_Lorenz" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:33, 30 January 2025 (UTC)</a>.<span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Delectopierre-20250130003300-Taylor_Lorenz"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Delectopierre-20250130003300-Taylor_Lorenz"></span></div> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Delectopierre-20250130003700-Delectopierre-20250130003300"></span>For full transparency, please note that <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/IncidentArchive1175#Wikihounding_by_Awshort" title="Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/IncidentArchive1175">this</a> previously occurred. I do not know if it is relevant, and I do not know if it is proper procedure to provide this or not. But I figure it is better to over communicate than under communicate. <a href="/wiki/User:Delectopierre" title="User:Delectopierre">Delectopierre</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Delectopierre" title="User talk:Delectopierre">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard#c-Delectopierre-20250130003700-Delectopierre-20250130003300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:37, 30 January 2025 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Delectopierre-20250130003700-Delectopierre-20250130003300"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Delectopierre-20250130003700-Delectopierre-20250130003300"></span></dd></dl> <p><span style="font-size:110%"><b><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Robert_McClenon-20250131004400-Taylor_Lorenz"></span>Have you discussed this on a talk page?</b></span> </p><p>Yes, I have discussed this issue on a talk page already. </p><p><span style="font-size:110%"><b>Location of dispute</b></span> </p> <ul><li><span><a href="/wiki/Taylor_Lorenz" title="Taylor Lorenz">Taylor Lorenz</a> <span class="plainlinks lx">(<a href="/wiki/Special:EditPage/Taylor_Lorenz" title="Special:EditPage/Taylor Lorenz">edit</a> | <a href="/wiki/Talk:Taylor_Lorenz" title="Talk:Taylor Lorenz">talk</a> | <a href="/wiki/Special:PageHistory/Taylor_Lorenz" title="Special:PageHistory/Taylor Lorenz">history</a> | <a href="/wiki/Special:WhatLinksHere/Taylor_Lorenz" title="Special:WhatLinksHere/Taylor Lorenz">links</a> | <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Taylor_Lorenz&action=watch">watch</a> | <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3ALog&page=Taylor+Lorenz">logs</a>)</span></span></li></ul> <p><span style="font-size:110%"><b>Users involved</b></span> </p> <ul><li><a href="/wiki/User:Delectopierre" title="User:Delectopierre">delectopierre</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Delectopierre" title="User talk:Delectopierre">talk</a> <b>·</b> <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/delectopierre" title="Special:Contributions/delectopierre">contribs</a>)</li> <li><a href="/wiki/User:Awshort" title="User:Awshort">Awshort</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Awshort" title="User talk:Awshort">talk</a> <b>·</b> <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Awshort" title="Special:Contributions/Awshort">contribs</a>)</li></ul> <p><span style="font-size:110%"><b>Dispute overview</b></span> </p><p>Taylor Lorenz (a journalist) left traditional media to focus on her substack recently. She's had a substack for a long time. I noticed that the article said 'launch' her substack, so started a conversation about that on the talk page. I didn't get much engagement, so I went ahead and made the change from 'launch' to 'focus.' (<a class="external free" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Taylor_Lorenz&diff=1268665510&oldid=1268399409">https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Taylor_Lorenz&diff=1268665510&oldid=1268399409</a>) </p><p>Awshort seems to believe that this shouldn't be the case, and manually reverted citing a number of a policies, without participating in the talk page conversation. </p><p>I changed it back, asked them to participate, and Awshort has told me it cannot be 'focus on'. </p><p><span style="font-size:110%"><b>How have you tried to resolve this dispute before coming here?</b></span> </p><p><a class="external free" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Taylor_Lorenz#Substack">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Taylor_Lorenz#Substack</a> </p><p><span style="font-size:110%"><b>How do you think we can help resolve the dispute?</b></span> </p><p>Perhaps someone can help us have a conversation about the merits of wording it one way vs. another without anyone throwing policies and not specifying their relevance? Honestly, I'm not sure though. </p> <dl><dt>Summary of dispute by delectopierre</dt></dl> <div style="font-size:smaller">Awshort keeps moving the goalposts. First telling me that I'm using a primary source which is not okay. I showed them that it is okay in this instance. Rather than replying with anything of substance, they then said something like 'actually it's a BPL violation, I'm reverting it.' <p>I asked them to revert their reversion and post a thread here so that we could discuss with someone's help. </p><p>At different times they've made reverts <i>during</i> conversations on the talk page, and then justified it post hoc with BPL. The fact that that type of reversion requires controversial material doesn't seem to be part of the policy they care to abide by. </p><p>I would also like to note that they were participating in other conversations on the talk page during that time, so they had plenty of opportunity to weigh in on the talk page discussion, rather than unilaterally making a change. </p> </div> <dl><dt>Summary of dispute by Awshort</dt></dl> <div style="font-size:smaller">Please keep it brief - less than 2000 characters if possible, it helps us help you quicker.</div> <p>I wasn't notified on my talk page, but noticed the ping for this from the talk page. I'm unsure where we should discuss the issues with the article, since DP's issue is with wording and my issues are with other<a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk%3ATaylor_Lorenz%2FArchive_2#Harassment_section">material</a> in the article that I feel has DUE issues as a whole and any attempts to edit it to be more neutral are reverted. I recently brought it to BLPN <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Biographies_of_living_persons/Noticeboard/Archive365#Taylor_Lorenz_BLP_issues_and_harassment_of_subject_based_on_article_contents">here</a> but it ended up being DP and I discussing it with no outside help. </p><p>If you could mediate a discussion, that may help reach a common ground between us. </p><p>03:37, 31 January 2025 (UTC) </p> <style data-mw-deduplicate="TemplateStyles:r1256386598">.mw-parser-output .cot-header-mainspace{background:#F0F2F5;color:inherit}.mw-parser-output .cot-header-other{background:#CCFFCC;color:inherit}@media screen{html.skin-theme-clientpref-night .mw-parser-output .cot-header-mainspace{background:#14181F;color:inherit}html.skin-theme-clientpref-night .mw-parser-output .cot-header-other{background:#003500;color:inherit}}@media screen and (prefers-color-scheme:dark){html.skin-theme-clientpref-os .mw-parser-output .cot-header-mainspace{background:#14181F;color:inherit}html.skin-theme-clientpref-os .mw-parser-output .cot-header-other{background:#003500;color:inherit}}</style> <div style="margin-left:0"> <table class="mw-collapsible mw-archivedtalk mw-collapsed" style="color:inherit; background: transparent; text-align: left; border: 1px solid Silver; margin: 0.2em auto auto; width:100%; clear: both; padding: 1px;"> <tbody><tr> <th class="cot-header-other" style="; font-size:87%; padding:0.2em 0.3em; text-align:center;"><div style="font-size:115%;margin:0 4em">Previous discussion archived</div> </th></tr> <tr> <td style="color:inherit; border: solid 1px Silver; padding: 0.6em; background: var(--background-color-base, #fff);"> <dl><dt>Taylor Lorenz original discussion</dt></dl> <div style="font-size:smaller">Please keep discussion to a minimum before being opened by a volunteer. Continue on article talk page if necessary.</div> <ul><li><b>Volunteer Note</b> - Is this primarily an issue about the choice of words? There are two editors in this dispute. A <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:3O" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:3O">Third Opinion</a> might be a quicker way to resolve this dispute if both parties will agree to the advice of a third editor. <a href="/wiki/User:Robert_McClenon" title="User:Robert McClenon">Robert McClenon</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Robert_McClenon" title="User talk:Robert McClenon">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard#c-Robert_McClenon-20250131004400-Taylor_Lorenz" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:44, 31 January 2025 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Robert_McClenon-20250131004400-Taylor_Lorenz"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Robert_McClenon-20250131004400-Taylor_Lorenz"></span></li></ul> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Delectopierre-20250131032300-Robert_McClenon-20250131004400"></span>My sense is that it’s primarily about policies. I am open to discussion with the other editor about word choice, and invited them to share their thoughts on it. <a href="/wiki/User:Delectopierre" title="User:Delectopierre">Delectopierre</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Delectopierre" title="User talk:Delectopierre">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard#c-Delectopierre-20250131032300-Robert_McClenon-20250131004400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">03:23, 31 January 2025 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Delectopierre-20250131032300-Robert_McClenon-20250131004400"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Delectopierre-20250131032300-Robert_McClenon-20250131004400"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Delectopierre-20250131032400-Delectopierre-20250131032300"></span>Also, as an aside, I think the template might be broken. The hat note about the Ottoman Empire wasn’t something I added. <a href="/wiki/User:Delectopierre" title="User:Delectopierre">Delectopierre</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Delectopierre" title="User talk:Delectopierre">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard#c-Delectopierre-20250131032400-Delectopierre-20250131032300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">03:24, 31 January 2025 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Delectopierre-20250131032400-Delectopierre-20250131032300"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Delectopierre-20250131032400-Delectopierre-20250131032300"></span></dd></dl></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Delectopierre-20250204024000-Robert_McClenon-20250131004400"></span>Just a note: @<a href="/wiki/User:Awshort" title="User:Awshort">Awshort</a> posted <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:No_original_research/Noticeboard#Taylor_Lorenz_and_SYNTH" title="Wikipedia:No original research/Noticeboard">this thread at NORN</a> but I am going to hold off engaging there until we have gone through this process. Thanks. <a href="/wiki/User:Delectopierre" title="User:Delectopierre">Delectopierre</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Delectopierre" title="User talk:Delectopierre">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard#c-Delectopierre-20250204024000-Robert_McClenon-20250131004400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:40, 4 February 2025 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Delectopierre-20250204024000-Robert_McClenon-20250131004400"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Delectopierre-20250204024000-Robert_McClenon-20250131004400"></span> <dl><dd><span class="template-ping"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Awshort-20250204031200-Taylor_Lorenz"></span>@<a href="/w/index.php?title=User:DelectoPierre&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:DelectoPierre (page does not exist)">DelectoPierre</a>:</span> The moderator suggested we go for a third opinion. As far as I can tell, there isn't really mediation here so I posted to a noticeboard to speed up the process for both of us, since Robert is busy. If I am wrong in my application of policies, I would like to know. If an outside opinion can provide guidance in how you are reading policies and agrees/disagrees with that reading, it seems like it would help.</dd></dl></dd></dl> <p><a href="/wiki/User:Awshort" title="User:Awshort">Awshort</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Awshort" title="User talk:Awshort">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard#c-Awshort-20250204031200-Taylor_Lorenz" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">03:12, 4 February 2025 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Awshort-20250204031200-Taylor_Lorenz"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Awshort-20250204031200-Taylor_Lorenz"></span> </p> <dl><dt>Zeroth statement by volunteer (Taylor Lorenz)</dt></dl> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Robert_McClenon-20250204053200-Taylor_Lorenz"></span>I am willing to try to facilitate a solution to this dispute. Before we take any further action on this dispute, I am asking each editor to read the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:BLP" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:BLP">policy on biographies of living persons</a>. I am asking each editor to make a brief statement as to what they think the issue or issues are. If there is a policy question, please ask the policy question concisely. If there is an issue about wording, I will ask my usual opening question, which is what wording in the article you want to change that the other editor wants to leave the same, or what wording in the article you want to leave the same that the other editor wants to change. Once each editor states what they think the issues are, I will have a better idea whether DRN is the forum for this dispute, and, if so, how to proceed. <a href="/wiki/User:Robert_McClenon" title="User:Robert McClenon">Robert McClenon</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Robert_McClenon" title="User talk:Robert McClenon">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard#c-Robert_McClenon-20250204053200-Taylor_Lorenz" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">05:32, 4 February 2025 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Robert_McClenon-20250204053200-Taylor_Lorenz"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Robert_McClenon-20250204053200-Taylor_Lorenz"></span> </p> <dl><dt>Zeroth statements by editors (Taylor Lorenz)</dt></dl> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Awshort-20250208071600-Taylor_Lorenz"></span>There are two seperate issues - the Substack section and the Harassment section. Delecto wants the wording in the substack section to read that she left to "focus on" her Substack under WP:PRIMARY (reasoning being that existence of archives on her site of past posts are "a straightforward, description of facts") I think it should reflect what multiple reliable sources and Lorenz herself labeled it as, which was that she left to "launch" her Substack, and using the before mentioned description relies on synthing and not sourcing. Does using research such as this justify ignoring what RS state, or would policy suggest we repeat what multiple reliable sources state? </p><p>The harassment section (prior discussion <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk%3ATaylor_Lorenz%2FArchive_2#Harassment_section">here</a>) has a header that fails NPOV (coordinated attacks), is only supported through sources that are either WP:SPS or fail WP:PUBLICFIGURE, and gives undue focus to a WP:MINORASPECT of the subject. (This is not including the Carlson information) Would removing it under WP:NOCON until the NPOV issues are resolved be within policy, since it involves a BLP and the requirements for following npov are more strict? The alternative I suggested to fold the material into the article to be more neutral was rejected by Delecto previously. <a href="/wiki/User:Awshort" title="User:Awshort">Awshort</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Awshort" title="User talk:Awshort">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard#c-Awshort-20250208071600-Taylor_Lorenz" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">07:16, 8 February 2025 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Awshort-20250208071600-Taylor_Lorenz"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Awshort-20250208071600-Taylor_Lorenz"></span> </p><p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Delectopierre-20250209055900-Taylor_Lorenz"></span>Apologies for the delay. I have read the BPL policy again, per your request <a href="/wiki/User:Robert_McClenon" title="User:Robert McClenon">Robert McClenon</a>. </p><p>Here are the policy questions, so far as I can tell: </p><p>1. Is a primary source -- in this instance, the existence of blog posts prior to Lorenz's announcement of her substack launch -- a sufficient reliable source to word her wiki article 'focus on' vs. 'launch' regarding her substack. I <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Taylor_Lorenz#c-Delectopierre-20250128022800-Awshort-20250128021900">say yes</a>, Awshort <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Taylor_Lorenz#c-Awshort-20250128020000-Delectopierre-20250128014900">says no</a>. </p><p>I will note here the distinction between a product release and a product launch. See eg: <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://www.pragmaticinstitute.com/resources/articles/product/look-before-you-launch/">1</a>, <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://www.prodpad.com/blog/product-release-vs-product-launch/">2</a>, <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://www.atlassian.com/agile/product-management/product-release">3</a>. </p><p>2. Does WP:BLPREMOVE apply to the wording of focus on vs. launch? My reading is that it only applies to potentially contentious material, which I read as contentious to the subject of the article (as opposed to contentious on wikipedia, as that standard could then be applied to <i>anything</i> that was challenged on WP.) Awshort says BLPREMOVE applies (as they applied it) and I say no. </p><p>3. It would be helpful to have some clarification about consensus on talk pages. In both instances that Awshort mentions, my perspective is that <i>during</i> active conversations, Awshort made changes. To me, the fact that there was a conversation ongoing, implies by definition was not a clear consensus yet. I need to double check, but I recall that they were both conversations just between the two of us. </p><p>4. In both the harassment section debate, and the debate about the wording of Lorenz's substack, Awshort removed something from the article that had implied consensus and then said that the burden/onus was on me if I wanted it back in the article. Can you provide some feedback on if this is the correct use of policy? I believe that once something has implied consensus, ONUS/Burden shifts, so long as the material doesn't violate other policies. </p><p>See eg: <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Taylor_Lorenz#c-Awshort-20250128090600-Delectopierre-20250128024100">1</a>, <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Taylor_Lorenz/Archive_1#c-Awshort-20241202154700-Delectopierre-20241201215200">2</a>, <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Taylor_Lorenz/Archive_2#c-Awshort-20241214192200-Delectopierre-20241213231000">3</a>. </p><p><a href="/wiki/User:Delectopierre" title="User:Delectopierre">Delectopierre</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Delectopierre" title="User talk:Delectopierre">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard#c-Delectopierre-20250209055900-Taylor_Lorenz" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">05:59, 9 February 2025 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Delectopierre-20250209055900-Taylor_Lorenz"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Delectopierre-20250209055900-Taylor_Lorenz"></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading3"><h3 id="First_statement_by_volunteer_(Taylor_Lorenz)" data-mw-thread-id="h-First_statement_by_volunteer_(Taylor_Lorenz)-Taylor_Lorenz-20250209044900"><span id="First_statement_by_volunteer_.28Taylor_Lorenz.29"></span><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-First_statement_by_volunteer_(Taylor_Lorenz)-Taylor_Lorenz-20250209044900"></span>First statement by volunteer (Taylor Lorenz)<span data-mw-comment-end="h-First_statement_by_volunteer_(Taylor_Lorenz)-Taylor_Lorenz-20250209044900"></span></h3></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Robert_McClenon-20250209044900-First_statement_by_volunteer_(Taylor_Lorenz)"></span>This content dispute is about a <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:BLP" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:BLP">biography of a living person</a>, and has been described as having two parts. One part, which has to do with the phrasing to describe her effort on her blog, is an issue about possible <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:SYNTH" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:SYNTH">synthesis</a>. The other part has to do with the harassment section and is a <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:BLP" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:BLP">biographies of living persons</a> issue. I will be opening a thread at the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:BLPN" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:BLPN">biographies of living persons</a> noticeboard about the issue about harassment. Please discuss there. </p><p>While we are waiting for advice from <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:BLPN" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:BLPN">BLPN</a>, we can discuss the issue of the wording about the blog. I have two questions for <a href="/wiki/User:Delectopierre" title="User:Delectopierre">User:Delectopierre</a>. The first is what the policy issue is that they mentioned above. The second is what their reply is to the statement by <a href="/wiki/User:Awshort" title="User:Awshort">User:Awshort</a> about <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:SYNTH" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:SYNTH">synthesis</a> amounting to <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:OR" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:OR">original research</a>. </p><p>Are there any other questions? <a href="/wiki/User:Robert_McClenon" title="User:Robert McClenon">Robert McClenon</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Robert_McClenon" title="User talk:Robert McClenon">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard#c-Robert_McClenon-20250209044900-First_statement_by_volunteer_(Taylor_Lorenz)" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">04:49, 9 February 2025 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Robert_McClenon-20250209044900-First_statement_by_volunteer_(Taylor_Lorenz)"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Robert_McClenon-20250209044900-First_statement_by_volunteer_(Taylor_Lorenz)"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Delectopierre-20250209064200-Robert_McClenon-20250209044900"></span>Apologies for the delay.</dd> <dd>Regarding the BLP section, my question would be: what will the BLP thread question be? I ask because <a href="/wiki/User:Awshort" title="User:Awshort">Awshort</a>'s statement -- in my view -- contains supposition and I want to ensure the framing of the question is agreeable to all parties.</dd> <dd>I think that my zeroth statement may suffice as a reply to @<a href="/wiki/User:Awshort" title="User:Awshort">Awshort</a>'s statement about synthesis, for the most part, with the following exceptions: <ul><li><link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1248585704" /><q class="inline-quote-talk">Delecto wants the wording in the substack section to read that she left to "focus on"</q> I think that 'focus on' is more accurate, however I am open to discussion about which might be better stylistically, for accuracy. etc. That said, my experience is that @<a href="/wiki/User:Awshort" title="User:Awshort">Awshort</a> would not discuss the pros/cons of the wording, and rather claimed it could not be 'focus on' on policy grounds that I do not agree with, detailed above.</li> <li>The sources that <a href="/wiki/User:Awshort" title="User:Awshort">Awshort</a> claims we <i>must</i> use in this <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:No_original_research/Noticeboard#c-Awshort-20250203102300-Taylor_Lorenz_and_SYNTH" title="Wikipedia:No original research/Noticeboard">post</a>, and in their statement above, all attribute their reporting to statements by Lorenz. See below (emphasis mine). Doesn't that make these WP:PRIMARY as well?</li></ul> <dl><dd><ul><li>"Lorenz, who is leaving the newspaper to launch the publication, <b><u>says</u></b> that it will "cover technology from the user side," in contrast to traditional coverage of social media."</li> <li>"Taylor Lorenz, the high-profile tech columnist for The Washington Post, <b><u>said</u></b> on Tuesday that she was leaving the publication to start her own subscription newsletter on Substack."</li> <li>"Taylor Lorenz, a Washington Post technology columnist, <b><u>announced</u></b> Tuesday that she is leaving the paper to launch a new publication on Substack, bringing to a close a 2½-year stint"</li></ul></dd></dl> <ul><li>Additionally, prior to making my change (from 'launch' to 'focus on') I started a discussion about this exact topic on the talk page. Rather than participating in the discussion (despite participating in other discussions on the talk page) Awshort reverted my changes to the wording. I'd just like to note that this conversation should have happened there, before their changes were made. It is quite frustrating for me to have Awshort revert my changes whether I use the BRD method (for the harassment section) or attempt to discuss proposed changes first on the talk page. In both instances, Awshort cited <i>many</i> policies, but from my perspective, wasn't engaging in a substantive discussion.</li></ul></dd> <dd>Lastly, Awshort continues to <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Taylor_Lorenz&diff=prev&oldid=1274346294">make modifications</a> to additions I've made on the Lorenz article. Can I request a moratorium while we're going through this process? From my perspective, it seems like an edit war, as this is the <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Taylor_Lorenz&diff=prev&oldid=1272227050">second time</a> they have gone through and made changes to this specific sentence, with different reasoning each time. Given that I have attempted to discuss our differences, and <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Awshort#c-Delectopierre-20250128015900-Would_appreciate_future_reversions_are_discussed_first" title="User talk:Awshort">extended an olive branch</a>, but have been met with what I experience to be Wikilawyering, I would like to request a moratorium while in this process, at a minimum. <a href="/wiki/User:Delectopierre" title="User:Delectopierre">Delectopierre</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Delectopierre" title="User talk:Delectopierre">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard#c-Delectopierre-20250209064200-Robert_McClenon-20250209044900" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">06:42, 9 February 2025 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Delectopierre-20250209064200-Robert_McClenon-20250209044900"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Delectopierre-20250209064200-Robert_McClenon-20250209044900"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Delectopierre-20250209064400-Delectopierre-20250209064200"></span>Whoops. I saw your post at BLPN after posting this reply. Given that you did not provide any framing, just pointed to the dispute, I am completely fine with it. Again, apologies for the delay. <a href="/wiki/User:Delectopierre" title="User:Delectopierre">Delectopierre</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Delectopierre" title="User talk:Delectopierre">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard#c-Delectopierre-20250209064400-Delectopierre-20250209064200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">06:44, 9 February 2025 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Delectopierre-20250209064400-Delectopierre-20250209064200"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Delectopierre-20250209064400-Delectopierre-20250209064200"></span></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Awshort-20250209072600-Delectopierre-20250209064200"></span>"Extended an olive branch" by asking another user to check in with them before making edits to anything they have added/edited is <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:OWN" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:OWN">WP:OWN</a> behavior. No one is obligated to check in with another editor before making edits, and I don't get how they think it is acceptable to ask someone to do that. I've been accused so far of moving goalposts, Wikilawyering, and I would respectfully ask Robert to either close this so that we can start a conduct discussion on ANI, or emsure that Delecto sticks to content issues.</dd> <dd>The edit I made was to reflect what a source said, and I didn't remove anything. If Delecto has a problem with editors ensuring accuracy of material they add, then I believe this needs to be discussed on a suitable noticeboard. Fixing a misquote to accurately reflect what someone states in the proper context shouldn't be that big of an issue.</dd> <dd><a href="/wiki/User:Awshort" title="User:Awshort">Awshort</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Awshort" title="User talk:Awshort">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard#c-Awshort-20250209072600-Delectopierre-20250209064200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">07:26, 9 February 2025 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Awshort-20250209072600-Delectopierre-20250209064200"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Awshort-20250209072600-Delectopierre-20250209064200"></span></dd></dl></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Delectopierre-20250209075400-Robert_McClenon-20250209044900"></span>Please note, I just posted this about an unrelated topic. I am unsure how to proceed.</dd> <dd><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Incidents#Harrasment_by_Awshort,_Round_2" title="Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents">Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents#Harrasment by Awshort, Round 2</a> <a href="/wiki/User:Delectopierre" title="User:Delectopierre">Delectopierre</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Delectopierre" title="User talk:Delectopierre">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard#c-Delectopierre-20250209075400-Robert_McClenon-20250209044900" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">07:54, 9 February 2025 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Delectopierre-20250209075400-Robert_McClenon-20250209044900"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Delectopierre-20250209075400-Robert_McClenon-20250209044900"></span></dd></dl> <dl><dt>Second statement by volunteer (Taylor Lorenz)</dt></dl> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Robert_McClenon-20250210211000-First_statement_by_volunteer_(Taylor_Lorenz)"></span>I am placing this case on hold because I do not intend to mediate it any further. If another volunteer at this noticeboard is willing to take over, they may be able to help. I see that there is bad blood between <a href="/wiki/User:Delectopierre" title="User:Delectopierre">User:Delectopierre</a> and <a href="/wiki/User:Awshort" title="User:Awshort">User:Awshort</a>, and that Delectopierre has reported Awshort to <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:ANI" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:ANI">WP:ANI</a> for harassment a second time. I am aware that this is said to be an unrelated topic, but I am not ready to try to handle a content dispute between two users when there is also a conduct dispute between them. Either another volunteer who will take this case, who either knows how to work with hostile editors, or who does not care about the hostility between editors, or no other volunteer will take this case, in which case it will be archived while it is still on hold. I advise the editors to discuss the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:BLP" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:BLP">BLP</a> issue at <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:BLPN" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:BLPN">BLPN</a>, and to read <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:BOOMERANG" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:BOOMERANG">the boomerang essay</a> before filing any more reports at <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:ANI" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:ANI">WP:ANI</a>. <a href="/wiki/User:Robert_McClenon" title="User:Robert McClenon">Robert McClenon</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Robert_McClenon" title="User talk:Robert McClenon">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard#c-Robert_McClenon-20250210211000-First_statement_by_volunteer_(Taylor_Lorenz)" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:10, 10 February 2025 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Robert_McClenon-20250210211000-First_statement_by_volunteer_(Taylor_Lorenz)"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Robert_McClenon-20250210211000-First_statement_by_volunteer_(Taylor_Lorenz)"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Delectopierre-20250211010300-Robert_McClenon-20250210211000"></span>Understood. Thank you for the time you already spent on this. <a href="/wiki/User:Delectopierre" title="User:Delectopierre">Delectopierre</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Delectopierre" title="User talk:Delectopierre">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard#c-Delectopierre-20250211010300-Robert_McClenon-20250210211000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:03, 11 February 2025 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Delectopierre-20250211010300-Robert_McClenon-20250210211000"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Delectopierre-20250211010300-Robert_McClenon-20250210211000"></span></dd></dl> <dl><dt>Second statements by editors (Taylor Lorenz)</dt></dl> </td></tr></tbody></table></div> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading3"><h3 id="Taylor_Lorenz_discussion" data-mw-thread-id="h-Taylor_Lorenz_discussion-Taylor_Lorenz-20250212204900"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Taylor_Lorenz_discussion-Taylor_Lorenz-20250212204900"></span>Taylor Lorenz discussion<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Taylor_Lorenz_discussion-Taylor_Lorenz-20250212204900"></span></h3></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Steven_Crossin-20250212204900-Taylor_Lorenz_discussion"></span>Hi I'm Steve, a volunteer here at DRN. I've collapsed the prior conversation and while I'll review, prefer a fresh start. I'll need a day to review the discussions and then will come back with my thoughts/next steps. Thanks! <span style="font-family:Verdana"><a href="/wiki/User:Steven_Crossin" title="User:Steven Crossin"><span style="color:#078330">Steven</span></a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Steven_Crossin" title="User talk:Steven Crossin"><span style="color:#27a">Crossin</span></a> <sup><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:DRN/V" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:DRN/V"><span style="color:#d81">Help resolve disputes!</span></a></sup></span> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard#c-Steven_Crossin-20250212204900-Taylor_Lorenz_discussion" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:49, 12 February 2025 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Steven_Crossin-20250212204900-Taylor_Lorenz_discussion"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Steven_Crossin-20250212204900-Taylor_Lorenz_discussion"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Delectopierre-20250213040200-Steven_Crossin-20250212204900"></span>Hi Steve, thanks for letting us know. I'll keep an eye out. <a href="/wiki/User:Delectopierre" title="User:Delectopierre">Delectopierre</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Delectopierre" title="User talk:Delectopierre">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard#c-Delectopierre-20250213040200-Steven_Crossin-20250212204900" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">04:02, 13 February 2025 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Delectopierre-20250213040200-Steven_Crossin-20250212204900"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Delectopierre-20250213040200-Steven_Crossin-20250212204900"></span></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Aristides_de_Sousa_Mendes" data-mw-thread-id="h-Aristides_de_Sousa_Mendes-Current_disputes-20250207152300"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Aristides_de_Sousa_Mendes-Current_disputes-20250207152300"></span>Aristides de Sousa Mendes<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Aristides_de_Sousa_Mendes-Current_disputes-20250207152300"></span></h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <div style="float: right; clear: right; padding: 1px; margin: 0.2em 0 0.2em 1.4em;"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Benji1207-20250207152300-Aristides_de_Sousa_Mendes"></span><span style="background-color:#ECD872;border:darkgrey solid 1px;padding:4px"><span typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Pictogram_voting_comment.png" class="mw-file-description"><img src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/40/Pictogram_voting_comment.png/20px-Pictogram_voting_comment.png" decoding="async" width="20" height="20" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/40/Pictogram_voting_comment.png/30px-Pictogram_voting_comment.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/40/Pictogram_voting_comment.png/40px-Pictogram_voting_comment.png 2x" data-file-width="250" data-file-height="250" /></a></span> – This request has been placed on hold.</span></div> <div style="float: right; clear: right; margin: 0.5em 0 0.7em 1.4em;">Filed by <a href="/wiki/User:Benji1207" title="User:Benji1207">Benji1207</a> on <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard#c-Benji1207-20250207152300-Aristides_de_Sousa_Mendes" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:23, 7 February 2025 (UTC)</a>.<span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Benji1207-20250207152300-Aristides_de_Sousa_Mendes"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Benji1207-20250207152300-Aristides_de_Sousa_Mendes"></span></div> <p><span style="font-size:110%"><b>Have you discussed this on a talk page?</b></span> </p><p>Yes, I have discussed this issue on a talk page already. </p><p><span style="font-size:110%"><b>Location of dispute</b></span> </p> <ul><li><span><a href="/wiki/Aristides_de_Sousa_Mendes" title="Aristides de Sousa Mendes">Aristides de Sousa Mendes</a> <span class="plainlinks lx">(<a href="/wiki/Special:EditPage/Aristides_de_Sousa_Mendes" title="Special:EditPage/Aristides de Sousa Mendes">edit</a> | <a href="/wiki/Talk:Aristides_de_Sousa_Mendes" title="Talk:Aristides de Sousa Mendes">talk</a> | <a href="/wiki/Special:PageHistory/Aristides_de_Sousa_Mendes" title="Special:PageHistory/Aristides de Sousa Mendes">history</a> | <a href="/wiki/Special:WhatLinksHere/Aristides_de_Sousa_Mendes" title="Special:WhatLinksHere/Aristides de Sousa Mendes">links</a> | <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Aristides_de_Sousa_Mendes&action=watch">watch</a> | <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3ALog&page=Aristides+de+Sousa+Mendes">logs</a>)</span></span></li></ul> <p><span style="font-size:110%"><b>Users involved</b></span> </p> <ul><li><a href="/wiki/User:Benji1207" title="User:Benji1207">Benji1207</a> (<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Benji1207&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User talk:Benji1207 (page does not exist)">talk</a> <b>·</b> <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Benji1207" title="Special:Contributions/Benji1207">contribs</a>)</li> <li><a href="/wiki/User:JPratas" title="User:JPratas">JPratas</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:JPratas" title="User talk:JPratas">talk</a> <b>·</b> <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/JPratas" title="Special:Contributions/JPratas">contribs</a>)</li> <li><a href="/wiki/User:Jos%C3%A9%C3%A1ngel006" title="User:Joséángel006">Joséángel006</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Jos%C3%A9%C3%A1ngel006" title="User talk:Joséángel006">talk</a> <b>·</b> <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Jos%C3%A9%C3%A1ngel006" title="Special:Contributions/Joséángel006">contribs</a>)</li></ul> <p><span style="font-size:110%"><b>Dispute overview</b></span> </p><p>User JPratas has been reverting my edits and those of another user called "Joséángel006" despite referencing credible sources including his own sources that he is using to revert the edit of myself and the other user (Joséángel006). The issue at hand is as follows: JPratas has been refusing to acknowledge that the term "thousands" is well-documented in the case of the famous Holocaust rescuer Aristides de Sousa Mendes concerning the number of visas issued. </p><p><span style="font-size:110%"><b>How have you tried to resolve this dispute before coming here?</b></span> </p><p><a class="external free" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Aristides_de_Sousa_Mendes#c-Benji1207-20250124150100-Undetermined_vs._thousands">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Aristides_de_Sousa_Mendes#c-Benji1207-20250124150100-Undetermined_vs._thousands</a> </p><p><span style="font-size:110%"><b>How do you think we can help resolve the dispute?</b></span> </p><p>Please look at the evidence provided on the talk page. You will see exact quotes given from multiple reputable historians, including from one of JPratas' main sources (Avraham Milgram). </p><p>Thank you for your time and consideration. </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading4"><h4 id="Summary_of_dispute_by_JPratas" data-mw-thread-id="h-Summary_of_dispute_by_JPratas-Aristides_de_Sousa_Mendes"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Summary_of_dispute_by_JPratas-Aristides_de_Sousa_Mendes"></span>Summary of dispute by JPratas<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Summary_of_dispute_by_JPratas-Aristides_de_Sousa_Mendes"></span></h4></div> <div style="font-size:smaller">Please keep it brief - less than 2000 characters if possible, it helps us help you quicker.</div> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading4"><h4 id="Summary_of_dispute_by_Joséángel006." data-mw-thread-id="h-Summary_of_dispute_by_Joséángel006.-Aristides_de_Sousa_Mendes-20250212155400"><span id="Summary_of_dispute_by_Jos.C3.A9.C3.A1ngel006."></span><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Summary_of_dispute_by_Joséángel006.-Aristides_de_Sousa_Mendes-20250212155400"></span>Summary of dispute by Joséángel006.<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Summary_of_dispute_by_Joséángel006.-Aristides_de_Sousa_Mendes-20250212155400"></span></h4></div> <div style="font-size:smaller"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Joséángel006-20250212155400-Summary_of_dispute_by_Joséángel006."></span>Please keep it brief - less than 2000 characters if possible, it helps us help you quicker.</div> <p>The dispute is about whether the article should say that Aristides issued an undetermined number or thousands of visas. Recently I had the opportunity to have a look at many reliable sources regarding Aristides de Sousa Mendes, which I quoted on the Talk page of the article. Thank you for taking a look! <small class="autosigned">— Preceding <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Signatures" title="Wikipedia:Signatures">unsigned</a> comment added by <a href="/wiki/User:Jos%C3%A9%C3%A1ngel006" title="User:Joséángel006">Joséángel006</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Jos%C3%A9%C3%A1ngel006#top" title="User talk:Joséángel006">talk</a> • <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Jos%C3%A9%C3%A1ngel006" title="Special:Contributions/Joséángel006">contribs</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard#c-Joséángel006-20250212155400-Summary_of_dispute_by_Joséángel006." class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:54, 12 February 2025 (UTC)</a></small><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Joséángel006-20250212155400-Summary_of_dispute_by_Joséángel006."><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Joséángel006-20250212155400-Summary_of_dispute_by_Joséángel006."></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading3"><h3 id="Aristides_de_Sousa_Mendes_discussion" data-mw-thread-id="h-Aristides_de_Sousa_Mendes_discussion-Aristides_de_Sousa_Mendes"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Aristides_de_Sousa_Mendes_discussion-Aristides_de_Sousa_Mendes"></span>Aristides de Sousa Mendes discussion<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Aristides_de_Sousa_Mendes_discussion-Aristides_de_Sousa_Mendes"></span></h3></div> <div style="font-size:smaller">Please keep discussion to a minimum before being opened by a volunteer. Continue on article talk page if necessary.</div> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading3"><h3 id="Zeroth_statement_by_moderator" data-mw-thread-id="h-Zeroth_statement_by_moderator-Aristides_de_Sousa_Mendes-20250208052500"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Zeroth_statement_by_moderator-Aristides_de_Sousa_Mendes-20250208052500"></span>Zeroth statement by moderator<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Zeroth_statement_by_moderator-Aristides_de_Sousa_Mendes-20250208052500"></span></h3></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-SkullyWasHere-20250208052500-Zeroth_statement_by_moderator"></span>I am willing to facilitate moderated discussion between editors if they are ready for discussion. Please read <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:DRN_Rule_C" title="Wikipedia:DRN Rule C">DRN Rule C</a> and indicate whether you agree to these rules. Be civil, comment on content not contributors, and do not engage in back-and-forth discussion. I will ask questions, editors will answer. Do not make any reports / inquiries at any other noticeboard. - <a href="/wiki/User:SkullyWasHere" title="User:SkullyWasHere">skully!</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:SkullyWasHere" title="User talk:SkullyWasHere">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard#c-SkullyWasHere-20250208052500-Zeroth_statement_by_moderator" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">05:25, 8 February 2025 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-SkullyWasHere-20250208052500-Zeroth_statement_by_moderator"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-SkullyWasHere-20250208052500-Zeroth_statement_by_moderator"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Benji1207-20250209163300-SkullyWasHere-20250208052500"></span>Thank you for the reply. I am ready for discussion. <a href="/wiki/User:Benji1207" title="User:Benji1207">Benji1207</a> (<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Benji1207&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User talk:Benji1207 (page does not exist)">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard#c-Benji1207-20250209163300-SkullyWasHere-20250208052500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:33, 9 February 2025 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Benji1207-20250209163300-SkullyWasHere-20250208052500"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Benji1207-20250209163300-SkullyWasHere-20250208052500"></span></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Joséángel006-20250211193700-SkullyWasHere-20250208052500"></span>Sounds great! I am also ready. <a href="/wiki/User:Jos%C3%A9%C3%A1ngel006" title="User:Joséángel006">Joséángel006</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Jos%C3%A9%C3%A1ngel006" title="User talk:Joséángel006">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard#c-Joséángel006-20250211193700-SkullyWasHere-20250208052500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:37, 11 February 2025 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Joséángel006-20250211193700-SkullyWasHere-20250208052500"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Joséángel006-20250211193700-SkullyWasHere-20250208052500"></span></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-SkullyWasHere-20250216005800-SkullyWasHere-20250208052500"></span>JPratas has not made a response to this statement, only on their talk page. I will be reminding them that they need to talk about this issue here at the DRN. Once I get a response from them, I will resume this discussion so we can begin. <a href="/wiki/User:SkullyWasHere" title="User:SkullyWasHere">skully!</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:SkullyWasHere" title="User talk:SkullyWasHere">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard#c-SkullyWasHere-20250216005800-SkullyWasHere-20250208052500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:58, 16 February 2025 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-SkullyWasHere-20250216005800-SkullyWasHere-20250208052500"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-SkullyWasHere-20250216005800-SkullyWasHere-20250208052500"></span></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="The_Simpsons_season_36" data-mw-thread-id="h-The_Simpsons_season_36-Current_disputes-20250208110000"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-The_Simpsons_season_36-Current_disputes-20250208110000"></span>The Simpsons season 36<span data-mw-comment-end="h-The_Simpsons_season_36-Current_disputes-20250208110000"></span></h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <div style="float: right; clear: right; padding: 1px; margin: 0.2em 0 0.2em 1.4em;"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Lado85-20250208110000-The_Simpsons_season_36"></span><span style="border:darkgrey solid 1px;padding:4px"><span typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Symbol_wait_old.png" class="mw-file-description"><img src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c3/Symbol_wait_old.png/20px-Symbol_wait_old.png" decoding="async" width="20" height="21" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c3/Symbol_wait_old.png/30px-Symbol_wait_old.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c3/Symbol_wait_old.png/40px-Symbol_wait_old.png 2x" data-file-width="180" data-file-height="185" /></a></span> – New discussion.</span></div> <div style="float: right; clear: right; margin: 0.5em 0 0.7em 1.4em;">Filed by <a href="/wiki/User:Lado85" title="User:Lado85">Lado85</a> on <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard#c-Lado85-20250208110000-The_Simpsons_season_36" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">11:00, 8 February 2025 (UTC)</a>.<span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Lado85-20250208110000-The_Simpsons_season_36"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Lado85-20250208110000-The_Simpsons_season_36"></span></div> <p><span style="font-size:110%"><b>Have you discussed this on a talk page?</b></span> </p><p>Yes, I have discussed this issue on a talk page already. </p><p><span style="font-size:110%"><b>Location of dispute</b></span> </p> <ul><li><span><a href="/wiki/The_Simpsons_season_36" title="The Simpsons season 36">The Simpsons season 36</a> <span class="plainlinks lx">(<a href="/wiki/Special:EditPage/The_Simpsons_season_36" title="Special:EditPage/The Simpsons season 36">edit</a> | <a href="/wiki/Talk:The_Simpsons_season_36" title="Talk:The Simpsons season 36">talk</a> | <a href="/wiki/Special:PageHistory/The_Simpsons_season_36" title="Special:PageHistory/The Simpsons season 36">history</a> | <a href="/wiki/Special:WhatLinksHere/The_Simpsons_season_36" title="Special:WhatLinksHere/The Simpsons season 36">links</a> | <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=The_Simpsons_season_36&action=watch">watch</a> | <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3ALog&page=The+Simpsons+season+36">logs</a>)</span></span></li></ul> <p><span style="font-size:110%"><b>Users involved</b></span> </p> <ul><li><a href="/wiki/User:Lado85" title="User:Lado85">Lado85</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Lado85" title="User talk:Lado85">talk</a> <b>·</b> <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Lado85" title="Special:Contributions/Lado85">contribs</a>)</li> <li><a href="/wiki/User:Morten_Haan" title="User:Morten Haan">Morten Haan</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Morten_Haan" title="User talk:Morten Haan">talk</a> <b>·</b> <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Morten_Haan" title="Special:Contributions/Morten Haan">contribs</a>)</li> <li><a href="/wiki/User:U-Mos" class="mw-redirect" title="User:U-Mos">U-Mos</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:U-Mos" title="User talk:U-Mos">talk</a> <b>·</b> <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/U-Mos" title="Special:Contributions/U-Mos">contribs</a>)</li> <li><a href="/wiki/User:Sophisticatedevening" title="User:Sophisticatedevening">Sophisticatedevening</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Sophisticatedevening" title="User talk:Sophisticatedevening">talk</a> <b>·</b> <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Sophisticatedevening" title="Special:Contributions/Sophisticatedevening">contribs</a>)</li></ul> <p><span style="font-size:110%"><b>Dispute overview</b></span> </p><p>In 36th season of Simpsons some episodes are released exclusively on Disney+, but they are part of season an must be listed like standard episodes, like it is now. Those aren't movies or shorts, they're episodes with regular production codes and normal episode lenghth, they just aired on a different platform. If some sources just list and count the network episodes, let them do that. Another user (U-Mos) says they must be separated. </p><p><span style="font-size:110%"><b>How have you tried to resolve this dispute before coming here?</b></span> </p> <ul><li><a href="/wiki/Talk:The_Simpsons_season_36#WP:BOLD_edit_reverted_-_separating_Disney+_episodes" title="Talk:The Simpsons season 36">Talk:The Simpsons season 36#WP:BOLD edit reverted - separating Disney+ episodes</a></li></ul> <p><span style="font-size:110%"><b>How do you think we can help resolve the dispute?</b></span> </p><p>I did provide some sources. There is nothing that confirms that this episodes must be separated. </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading4"><h4 id="Summary_of_dispute_by_U-Mos" data-mw-thread-id="h-Summary_of_dispute_by_U-Mos-The_Simpsons_season_36-20250208111500"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Summary_of_dispute_by_U-Mos-The_Simpsons_season_36-20250208111500"></span>Summary of dispute by U-Mos<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Summary_of_dispute_by_U-Mos-The_Simpsons_season_36-20250208111500"></span></h4></div> <div style="font-size:smaller"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-U-Mos-20250208111500-Summary_of_dispute_by_U-Mos"></span>Please keep it brief - less than 2000 characters if possible, it helps us help you quicker.</div> <p>I suggested Lado may wish to proceed with dispute resolution here as he was not satisfied with the previous third opinion, kindly provided by <a href="/wiki/User:Sophisticatedevening" title="User:Sophisticatedevening">Sophisticatedevening</a>, which indicated that the substance of my bold edit (listing the Disney+ episodes below those broadcast on Fox) should stand. I believe I've been clear at the linked talk page why this change is supported by the weight of secondary sources, which crucially show that the four episodes in question were an entirely separate commission to the Fox broadcast season, in addition to their separate release/marketing. Sources differ on the episode numbering within the season, as has been shown through the talk page discussion. I am happy to adjust for Lado's objection to listing the episodes under the term "specials", per <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=The_Simpsons_season_36&oldid=1274296839">this version</a> (currently reverted, as Lado re-engaged with the discussion). <a href="/wiki/User:U-Mos" class="mw-redirect" title="User:U-Mos">U-Mos</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:U-Mos" title="User talk:U-Mos">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard#c-U-Mos-20250208111500-Summary_of_dispute_by_U-Mos" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">11:15, 8 February 2025 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-U-Mos-20250208111500-Summary_of_dispute_by_U-Mos"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-U-Mos-20250208111500-Summary_of_dispute_by_U-Mos"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-U-Mos-20250208160500-U-Mos-20250208111500"></span>A quick additional note following Lado's edit to the dispute summary: I do think that's a very straw man argument and a misrepresentation of the matter. I am not and at no point have suggested that these episodes shouldn't be listed as part of the main episode table at this article, as the version link above shows. <a href="/wiki/User:U-Mos" class="mw-redirect" title="User:U-Mos">U-Mos</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:U-Mos" title="User talk:U-Mos">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard#c-U-Mos-20250208160500-U-Mos-20250208111500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:05, 8 February 2025 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-U-Mos-20250208160500-U-Mos-20250208111500"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-U-Mos-20250208160500-U-Mos-20250208111500"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Lado85-20250208161500-U-Mos-20250208160500"></span>I didn't change anything, only did dispute overview most сlear to understand. The version link shows separated episodes, not as regular episodes, like they are listed know. <a href="/wiki/User:Lado85" title="User:Lado85">Lado85</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Lado85" title="User talk:Lado85">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard#c-Lado85-20250208161500-U-Mos-20250208160500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:15, 8 February 2025 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Lado85-20250208161500-U-Mos-20250208160500"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Lado85-20250208161500-U-Mos-20250208160500"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading3"><h3 id="The_Simpsons_season_36_discussion" data-mw-thread-id="h-The_Simpsons_season_36_discussion-The_Simpsons_season_36-20250209014800"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-The_Simpsons_season_36_discussion-The_Simpsons_season_36-20250209014800"></span>The Simpsons season 36 discussion<span data-mw-comment-end="h-The_Simpsons_season_36_discussion-The_Simpsons_season_36-20250209014800"></span></h3></div> <div style="font-size:smaller"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Robert_McClenon-20250209014800-The_Simpsons_season_36_discussion"></span>Please keep discussion to a minimum before being opened by a volunteer. Continue on article talk page if necessary.</div> <ul><li><b>Volunteer Note</b> - The filing editor has not yet notified the other editors on their user talk pages. <a href="/wiki/User:Robert_McClenon" title="User:Robert McClenon">Robert McClenon</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Robert_McClenon" title="User talk:Robert McClenon">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard#c-Robert_McClenon-20250209014800-The_Simpsons_season_36_discussion" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:48, 9 February 2025 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Robert_McClenon-20250209014800-The_Simpsons_season_36_discussion"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Robert_McClenon-20250209014800-The_Simpsons_season_36_discussion"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Robert_McClenon-20250209015400-Robert_McClenon-20250209014800"></span>It is not necessary to notify the editor who has responded here. <a href="/wiki/User:Robert_McClenon" title="User:Robert McClenon">Robert McClenon</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Robert_McClenon" title="User talk:Robert McClenon">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard#c-Robert_McClenon-20250209015400-Robert_McClenon-20250209014800" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:54, 9 February 2025 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Robert_McClenon-20250209015400-Robert_McClenon-20250209014800"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Robert_McClenon-20250209015400-Robert_McClenon-20250209014800"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Lado85-20250209062800-Robert_McClenon-20250209015400"></span>Done <a href="/wiki/User:Lado85" title="User:Lado85">Lado85</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Lado85" title="User talk:Lado85">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard#c-Lado85-20250209062800-Robert_McClenon-20250209015400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">06:28, 9 February 2025 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Lado85-20250209062800-Robert_McClenon-20250209015400"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Lado85-20250209062800-Robert_McClenon-20250209015400"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></li></ul> <p><br /> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading3"><h3 id="First_statement_by_possible_moderator_(Simpsons)" data-mw-thread-id="h-First_statement_by_possible_moderator_(Simpsons)-The_Simpsons_season_36-20250212054200"><span id="First_statement_by_possible_moderator_.28Simpsons.29"></span><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-First_statement_by_possible_moderator_(Simpsons)-The_Simpsons_season_36-20250212054200"></span>First statement by possible moderator (Simpsons)<span data-mw-comment-end="h-First_statement_by_possible_moderator_(Simpsons)-The_Simpsons_season_36-20250212054200"></span></h3></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Robert_McClenon-20250212054200-First_statement_by_possible_moderator_(Simpsons)"></span>Two editors have made statements, and that is enough to begin moderated discussion. I am asking the editors first to read <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:DRN_Rule_A" title="Wikipedia:DRN Rule A">DRN Rule A</a>. You will be assumed to have read and agreed to the rules if you post after the time of this posting. Be civil and concise. Do not engage in back-and-forth discussion. The moderator will ask the questions, and the editors will address their answers to the moderator and the community. </p><p>I understand that this is a dispute about the list of episodes, about some episodes that were aired on Disney rather than on Fox. What exactly is the issue? It isn't obvious to me what the issue is, which may mean that it has not been stated clearly, and needs to be restated in what may otherwise seem to be excessive detail. Is one editor asking for the Disney episodes to be listed in a separate article, or is one editor asking to break them out from the listing of the other episodes and list them in a separate block under the main list of episodes? Please state exactly how you want these episodes listed. What exactly do each of the two editors think was the opinion of Sophisticatedevening? Please state why you agree or disagree with the Third Opinion. </p><p>Are there any other content disputes? Are there any questions? <a href="/wiki/User:Robert_McClenon" title="User:Robert McClenon">Robert McClenon</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Robert_McClenon" title="User talk:Robert McClenon">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard#c-Robert_McClenon-20250212054200-First_statement_by_possible_moderator_(Simpsons)" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">05:42, 12 February 2025 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Robert_McClenon-20250212054200-First_statement_by_possible_moderator_(Simpsons)"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Robert_McClenon-20250212054200-First_statement_by_possible_moderator_(Simpsons)"></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading3"><h3 id="First_statements_by_editors_(Simpsons)" data-mw-thread-id="h-First_statements_by_editors_(Simpsons)-The_Simpsons_season_36-20250212064900"><span id="First_statements_by_editors_.28Simpsons.29"></span><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-First_statements_by_editors_(Simpsons)-The_Simpsons_season_36-20250212064900"></span>First statements by editors (Simpsons)<span data-mw-comment-end="h-First_statements_by_editors_(Simpsons)-The_Simpsons_season_36-20250212064900"></span></h3></div> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Lado85-20250212064900-First_statements_by_editors_(Simpsons)"></span>Disney+ episodes must be like they are now, they are regular episodes. They just aired on a different platform. The source that was provides by U-Mos (Rotten Tomatoes) just lists and counts the network episodes (based on FOX page list). It can't be used as proof (like another sources with same lists). <a href="/wiki/User:Lado85" title="User:Lado85">Lado85</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Lado85" title="User talk:Lado85">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard#c-Lado85-20250212064900-First_statements_by_editors_(Simpsons)" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">06:49, 12 February 2025 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Lado85-20250212064900-First_statements_by_editors_(Simpsons)"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Lado85-20250212064900-First_statements_by_editors_(Simpsons)"></span></dd></dl> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-U-Mos-20250212101000-First_statements_by_editors_(Simpsons)"></span>The dispute is between <a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=The_Simpsons_season_36&oldid=1274296839">[2]</a> (my version) and <a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=The_Simpsons_season_36&oldid=1274422396">[3]</a> (Lado's version). Both versions list all episodes in one table in this article; my version places the Disney+ episodes below the others, underneath a heading (originally "Specials", now adjusted to "Disney+ episodes" in response to Lado's point that no sources describe them as "Specials"). I believe that this reflects the secondary sources cited in the article, that clearly demonstrate the separate commissioning, promotion and release of the episodes by different networks, i.e. that the Disney+ episodes are distinct from the Fox broadcast season. My understanding of the third opinion is that it supports my version, stating that "a reasonable compromise is to have them at the bottom under 15" (15 here refers to the most recent broadcast episode, "The Flandshees of Innersimpson"). <a href="/wiki/User:U-Mos" class="mw-redirect" title="User:U-Mos">U-Mos</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:U-Mos" title="User talk:U-Mos">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard#c-U-Mos-20250212101000-First_statements_by_editors_(Simpsons)" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">10:10, 12 February 2025 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-U-Mos-20250212101000-First_statements_by_editors_(Simpsons)"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-U-Mos-20250212101000-First_statements_by_editors_(Simpsons)"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Lado85-20250212140100-U-Mos-20250212101000"></span>And still, there is no source, that proofs this episodes must be placed below the others. This is only U-Mos's own opinion. No one more supports this version. The sources, you arl talking counts only the network episodes, but this isn't proof that Disney episodes are not regulars. They aren't movies or shorts, they're episodes with regular production codes and normal episode lenghth, they just aired on a different platform. <a href="/wiki/User:Lado85" title="User:Lado85">Lado85</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Lado85" title="User talk:Lado85">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard#c-Lado85-20250212140100-U-Mos-20250212101000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">14:01, 12 February 2025 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Lado85-20250212140100-U-Mos-20250212101000"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Lado85-20250212140100-U-Mos-20250212101000"></span></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading3"><h3 id="Second_statement_by_moderator_(Simpsons)" data-mw-thread-id="h-Second_statement_by_moderator_(Simpsons)-The_Simpsons_season_36-20250213060200"><span id="Second_statement_by_moderator_.28Simpsons.29"></span><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Second_statement_by_moderator_(Simpsons)-The_Simpsons_season_36-20250213060200"></span>Second statement by moderator (Simpsons)<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Second_statement_by_moderator_(Simpsons)-The_Simpsons_season_36-20250213060200"></span></h3></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Robert_McClenon-20250213060200-Second_statement_by_moderator_(Simpsons)"></span>I see that this is a dispute over how to arrange the listings of the episodes in the table. Disputes over the formatting of tables are often remarkably intense, but do not really affect the accuracy of the information in the encyclopedia, and so are good candidates for a Third Opinion. I will again ask each editor to restate what they think was the Third Opinion of <a href="/wiki/User:Sophisticatedevening" title="User:Sophisticatedevening">User:Sophisticatedevening</a>, and also to state why they agree or disagree with the Third Opinion. Do not engage in back-and-forth discussion, and do not respond to the post of the other editor. Please answer my questions. </p><p>Am I correct that the two versions also differ in the Number in Season, because one version includes the Disney episodes in the numbering, and the other does not assign them numbers within the season? </p><p>Are there any other questions? <a href="/wiki/User:Robert_McClenon" title="User:Robert McClenon">Robert McClenon</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Robert_McClenon" title="User talk:Robert McClenon">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard#c-Robert_McClenon-20250213060200-Second_statement_by_moderator_(Simpsons)" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">06:02, 13 February 2025 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Robert_McClenon-20250213060200-Second_statement_by_moderator_(Simpsons)"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Robert_McClenon-20250213060200-Second_statement_by_moderator_(Simpsons)"></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading3"><h3 id="Second_statements_by_editors_(Simpsons)" data-mw-thread-id="h-Second_statements_by_editors_(Simpsons)-The_Simpsons_season_36-20250213070300"><span id="Second_statements_by_editors_.28Simpsons.29"></span><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Second_statements_by_editors_(Simpsons)-The_Simpsons_season_36-20250213070300"></span>Second statements by editors (Simpsons)<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Second_statements_by_editors_(Simpsons)-The_Simpsons_season_36-20250213070300"></span></h3></div> <ol><li><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Lado85-20250213070300-Second_statements_by_editors_(Simpsons)"></span>I disagree with Third Opinion of <a href="/wiki/User:Sophisticatedevening" title="User:Sophisticatedevening">User:Sophisticatedevening</a>, she said episodes must be removed at all if there is no sources, that confirmed any version. I provided sources when all episode are listed together.</li> <li>Disney episodes have regular in season an overall numbers and regular production codes. Only difference is airing network.</li></ol> <p>No one from Simpsons articles active editors supports U-Mos's version. <a href="/wiki/User:Morten_Haan" title="User:Morten Haan">User:Morten Haan</a> commented on talk pages and supported my version (it's consensus version too). <a href="/wiki/User:Lado85" title="User:Lado85">Lado85</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Lado85" title="User talk:Lado85">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard#c-Lado85-20250213070300-Second_statements_by_editors_(Simpsons)" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">07:03, 13 February 2025 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Lado85-20250213070300-Second_statements_by_editors_(Simpsons)"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Lado85-20250213070300-Second_statements_by_editors_(Simpsons)"></span> </p><p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-U-Mos-20250213110900-Second_statements_by_editors_(Simpsons)"></span>I broadly agree with the third opinion. Sophisticatedevening states that the episodes should be mentioned in the article, which I certainly agree with. They then suggest the "reasonable compromise" of listing the episodes in question at the bottom, which concurs with my version (linked above). They then discuss the sources and notion "official" information, in light of the most recent direction of the talk page discussion at that time, emphasising that secondary sources should be retained. My understanding is this relates to the information I was discussing at the talk page, that the four episodes were commissioned separately by Disney+ (currently cited to <a rel="nofollow" class="external autonumber" href="https://www.givememyremote.com/remote/2024/12/09/the-simpsons-franchise-expansion-matt-selman-interview/">[4]</a> in the article, with <a rel="nofollow" class="external autonumber" href="https://www.thewrap.com/the-simpsons-disney-plus-episode-before-fox-return/">[5]</a> also discussed in the talk page). Reflecting that information in the presentation of the article was my aim with this edit. </p><p>You are correct that the numbering of episodes in the season differ between the two versions. Currently, the episodes are numbered chronologically by release date, with Disney+ episodes numbered 10, 11 and 14. My edit marks these episodes (as placed below the broadcast episodes) with an "X" in place of an episode number (as they do not sit within the Fox broadcast season), and amends the numbering of the Fox broadcast episodes accordingly (e.g. "The Falndeshees of Innersimpson" becomes episode 12, rather than episode 15). I did not alter the overall episode numbers (778, 779 and 782 for the Disney+ episodes). We have established on the talk page that sources differ on these episode numberings: some count only the Fox broadcast episodes, some match the current version of the article, and at least one combines the Christmas two-parter (Disney+ episodes) as a single "episode 10". Given these discrepancies, I consider the consistent and clear information regarding the episodes' commission/release to be of greater importance. I am happy to discuss this aspect further. <a href="/wiki/User:U-Mos" class="mw-redirect" title="User:U-Mos">U-Mos</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:U-Mos" title="User talk:U-Mos">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard#c-U-Mos-20250213110900-Second_statements_by_editors_(Simpsons)" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">11:09, 13 February 2025 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-U-Mos-20250213110900-Second_statements_by_editors_(Simpsons)"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-U-Mos-20250213110900-Second_statements_by_editors_(Simpsons)"></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading3"><h3 id="Third_statement_by_moderator_(Simpsons)" data-mw-thread-id="h-Third_statement_by_moderator_(Simpsons)-The_Simpsons_season_36-20250213213800"><span id="Third_statement_by_moderator_.28Simpsons.29"></span><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Third_statement_by_moderator_(Simpsons)-The_Simpsons_season_36-20250213213800"></span>Third statement by moderator (Simpsons)<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Third_statement_by_moderator_(Simpsons)-The_Simpsons_season_36-20250213213800"></span></h3></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Robert_McClenon-20250213213800-Third_statement_by_moderator_(Simpsons)"></span>I am about to ask the editors at <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Television" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Television">WikiProject Television</a> for their comments on the formatting of a television season episode list when there were different networks for a season. This referral will be less intensive of volunteer labor than a <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:RFC" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:RFC">Request for Comments</a>. After I see how that referral progresses, I will decide whether to put this discussion on hold, to close this discussion as referred to the WikiProject, or to resume discussion following input from the WikiProject. </p><p>Are there any other questions? <a href="/wiki/User:Robert_McClenon" title="User:Robert McClenon">Robert McClenon</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Robert_McClenon" title="User talk:Robert McClenon">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard#c-Robert_McClenon-20250213213800-Third_statement_by_moderator_(Simpsons)" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:38, 13 February 2025 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Robert_McClenon-20250213213800-Third_statement_by_moderator_(Simpsons)"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Robert_McClenon-20250213213800-Third_statement_by_moderator_(Simpsons)"></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading3"><h3 id="Third_statements_by_editors_(Simpsons)" data-mw-thread-id="h-Third_statements_by_editors_(Simpsons)-The_Simpsons_season_36-20250213222300"><span id="Third_statements_by_editors_.28Simpsons.29"></span><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Third_statements_by_editors_(Simpsons)-The_Simpsons_season_36-20250213222300"></span>Third statements by editors (Simpsons)<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Third_statements_by_editors_(Simpsons)-The_Simpsons_season_36-20250213222300"></span></h3></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-U-Mos-20250213222300-Third_statements_by_editors_(Simpsons)"></span>No further questions at this time. <a href="/wiki/User:U-Mos" class="mw-redirect" title="User:U-Mos">U-Mos</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:U-Mos" title="User talk:U-Mos">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard#c-U-Mos-20250213222300-Third_statements_by_editors_(Simpsons)" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:23, 13 February 2025 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-U-Mos-20250213222300-Third_statements_by_editors_(Simpsons)"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-U-Mos-20250213222300-Third_statements_by_editors_(Simpsons)"></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Symphony_No._2_(Walton)" data-mw-thread-id="h-Symphony_No._2_(Walton)-Current_disputes-20250214015500"><span id="Symphony_No._2_.28Walton.29"></span><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Symphony_No._2_(Walton)-Current_disputes-20250214015500"></span>Symphony No. 2 (Walton)<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Symphony_No._2_(Walton)-Current_disputes-20250214015500"></span></h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <div style="float: right; clear: right; padding: 1px; margin: 0.2em 0 0.2em 1.4em;"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-CurryTime7-24-20250214015500-Symphony_No._2_(Walton)"></span><span style="background-color:lightgrey; border:darkgrey solid 1px;padding:4px"><span typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Symbol_comment_vote.svg" class="mw-file-description"><img src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e0/Symbol_comment_vote.svg/20px-Symbol_comment_vote.svg.png" decoding="async" width="20" height="21" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e0/Symbol_comment_vote.svg/30px-Symbol_comment_vote.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e0/Symbol_comment_vote.svg/40px-Symbol_comment_vote.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="180" data-file-height="185" /></a></span> – General close. See comments for reasoning.</span></div> <div style="float: right; clear: right; margin: 0.5em 0 0.7em 1.4em;">Filed by <a href="/wiki/User:CurryTime7-24" title="User:CurryTime7-24">CurryTime7-24</a> on <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard#c-CurryTime7-24-20250214015500-Symphony_No._2_(Walton)" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:55, 14 February 2025 (UTC)</a>.<span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-CurryTime7-24-20250214015500-Symphony_No._2_(Walton)"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-CurryTime7-24-20250214015500-Symphony_No._2_(Walton)"></span></div> <div style="margin-left:0px"> <span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Robert_McClenon-20250214225200-Symphony_No._2_(Walton)"></span><link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1238436933" /><table class="box-Notice plainlinks ombox ombox-notice" role="presentation"><tbody><tr><td class="mbox-image"><span typeof="mw:File"><span><img alt="" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/1/1d/Information_icon4.svg/40px-Information_icon4.svg.png" decoding="async" width="40" height="40" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/1/1d/Information_icon4.svg/60px-Information_icon4.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/1/1d/Information_icon4.svg/80px-Information_icon4.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="620" data-file-height="620" /></span></span></td><td class="mbox-text" style="text-align: left;">Closed as premature. The discussion has not been going on for 24 hours. The information at the top of this noticeboard says that the discussion should have continued for two days. Sometimes either discussion or a day of reflection or a night of sleep can bring the editors closer to compromise. Continue discussion on the article talk page. If discussion is still inconclusive after 48 hours, a new request can be filed here. <a href="/wiki/User:Robert_McClenon" title="User:Robert McClenon">Robert McClenon</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Robert_McClenon" title="User talk:Robert McClenon">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard#c-Robert_McClenon-20250214225200-Symphony_No._2_(Walton)" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:52, 14 February 2025 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Robert_McClenon-20250214225200-Symphony_No._2_(Walton)"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Robert_McClenon-20250214225200-Symphony_No._2_(Walton)"></span></td></tr></tbody></table> <table class="mw-collapsible mw-collapsed mw-archivedtalk" style="width: 100%; border: 1px solid silver; margin-top: 0.2em;"> <tbody><tr> <th style="background-color: #CFC; font-size:112%;">Closed discussion </th></tr> <tr> <td style="border: solid 1px silver; padding: 8px; background-color: white;"> <div class="boilerplate metadata" style="background-color: #edeaff; padding: 0px 10px 0px 10px; border: 1px solid #8779DD;"> <dl><dd><i>The following discussion is closed. <span style="color:red"><b>Please do not modify it.</b></span> Subsequent comments should be made on the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard" title="Wikipedia talk:Dispute resolution noticeboard">dispute resolution noticeboard's talk page</a>. No further edits should be made to this discussion.</i></dd></dl> <hr /> <p><span style="font-size:110%"><b>Have you discussed this on a talk page?</b></span> </p><p>Yes, I have discussed this issue on a talk page already. </p><p><span style="font-size:110%"><b>Location of dispute</b></span> </p> <ul><li><span><a href="/wiki/Symphony_No._2_(Walton)" title="Symphony No. 2 (Walton)">Symphony No. 2 (Walton)</a> <span class="plainlinks lx">(<a href="/wiki/Special:EditPage/Symphony_No._2_(Walton)" title="Special:EditPage/Symphony No. 2 (Walton)">edit</a> | <a href="/wiki/Talk:Symphony_No._2_(Walton)" title="Talk:Symphony No. 2 (Walton)">talk</a> | <a href="/wiki/Special:PageHistory/Symphony_No._2_(Walton)" title="Special:PageHistory/Symphony No. 2 (Walton)">history</a> | <a href="/wiki/Special:WhatLinksHere/Symphony_No._2_(Walton)" title="Special:WhatLinksHere/Symphony No. 2 (Walton)">links</a> | <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Symphony_No._2_(Walton)&action=watch">watch</a> | <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3ALog&page=Symphony+No.+2+%28Walton%29">logs</a>)</span></span></li></ul> <p><span style="font-size:110%"><b>Users involved</b></span> </p> <ul><li><a href="/wiki/User:CurryTime7-24" title="User:CurryTime7-24">CurryTime7-24</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:CurryTime7-24" title="User talk:CurryTime7-24">talk</a> <b>·</b> <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/CurryTime7-24" title="Special:Contributions/CurryTime7-24">contribs</a>)</li> <li><a href="/wiki/User:Tim_riley" title="User:Tim riley">Tim riley</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Tim_riley" title="User talk:Tim riley">talk</a> <b>·</b> <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Tim_riley" title="Special:Contributions/Tim riley">contribs</a>)</li> <li><a href="/wiki/User:SchroCat" title="User:SchroCat">SchroCat</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:SchroCat" title="User talk:SchroCat">talk</a> <b>·</b> <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/SchroCat" title="Special:Contributions/SchroCat">contribs</a>)</li></ul> <p><span style="font-size:110%"><b>Dispute overview</b></span> </p><p>Yesterday, I rewrote and significantly expanded the article on the composer <a href="/wiki/William_Walton" title="William Walton">William Walton</a>'s <a href="/wiki/Symphony_No._2_(Walton)" title="Symphony No. 2 (Walton)">Second Symphony</a>. Because nearly the entire article was new (<a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://xtools.wmcloud.org/pageinfo/en.wikipedia.org/Symphony%20No.%202%20%28Walton%29">see the page statistics</a>), it seemed acceptable to use the citation style that I'm familiar with, although to be honest this was not a matter I had considered beforehand. Earlier today, another editor disputed the rewrite and the use of a new citation style at the article. They also <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Symphony_No._2_(Walton)&diff=prev&oldid=1275599068">deleted the entire new article</a>, in favor of <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Symphony_No._2_(Walton)&oldid=1275605469">the previous one</a>. I contacted the editor at <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Tim_riley&diff=prev&oldid=1275602096">their talk page</a>, then later brought the matter up at the article talk page at their suggestion. In the meantime, they deleted the newly rewritten article once more. As I was preparing to solicit a third opinion, a previously uninvolved editor <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:CurryTime7-24&curid=37034029&diff=1275617534&oldid=1273693967">sent me an edit-warring warning</a>. For context, I am also currently participating with these same editors in <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard#Malcolm_Sargent">another ongoing discussion at the DRN</a>. </p><p>While posting this, I learned that the other editor <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Symphony_No._2_(Walton)&diff=prev&oldid=1275618985">also deleted</a> the new version of the article. </p><p><span style="font-size:110%"><b>How have you tried to resolve this dispute before coming here?</b></span> </p><p><a href="/wiki/Talk:Symphony_No._2_(Walton)#Citation_style" title="Talk:Symphony No. 2 (Walton)">Talk:Symphony No. 2 (Walton)#Citation_style</a> </p><p><span style="font-size:110%"><b>How do you think we can help resolve the dispute?</b></span> </p><p>Determining whether or not the newly rewritten article needs to be jettisoned because of the citation style. If the new version is acceptable, then help is needed to determine whether the new citation style can remain, be replaced, or modified. </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading4"><h4 id="Summary_of_dispute_by_Tim_riley_2" data-mw-thread-id="h-Summary_of_dispute_by_Tim_riley_2-Symphony_No._2_(Walton)"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Summary_of_dispute_by_Tim_riley_2-Symphony_No._2_(Walton)"></span>Summary of dispute by Tim riley<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Summary_of_dispute_by_Tim_riley_2-Symphony_No._2_(Walton)"></span></h4></div> <div style="font-size:smaller">Please keep it brief - less than 2000 characters if possible, it helps us help you quicker.</div> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading4"><h4 id="Summary_of_dispute_by_SchroCat_2" data-mw-thread-id="h-Summary_of_dispute_by_SchroCat_2-Symphony_No._2_(Walton)-20250214032400"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Summary_of_dispute_by_SchroCat_2-Symphony_No._2_(Walton)-20250214032400"></span>Summary of dispute by SchroCat<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Summary_of_dispute_by_SchroCat_2-Symphony_No._2_(Walton)-20250214032400"></span></h4></div> <div style="font-size:smaller"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-SchroCat-20250214032400-Summary_of_dispute_by_SchroCat_2"></span>Please keep it brief - less than 2000 characters if possible, it helps us help you quicker.</div> <p>This is ridiculous. There has been no real effort on the talk page into coming to a suitable conclusion. There is no need to waste other people’s time without expending a little effort <b>first</b>. - <a href="/wiki/User:SchroCat" title="User:SchroCat">SchroCat</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:SchroCat" title="User talk:SchroCat">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard#c-SchroCat-20250214032400-Summary_of_dispute_by_SchroCat_2" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">03:24, 14 February 2025 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-SchroCat-20250214032400-Summary_of_dispute_by_SchroCat_2"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-SchroCat-20250214032400-Summary_of_dispute_by_SchroCat_2"></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading3"><h3 id="Symphony_No._2_(Walton)_discussion" data-mw-thread-id="h-Symphony_No._2_(Walton)_discussion-Symphony_No._2_(Walton)-20250214151100"><span id="Symphony_No._2_.28Walton.29_discussion"></span><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Symphony_No._2_(Walton)_discussion-Symphony_No._2_(Walton)-20250214151100"></span>Symphony No. 2 (Walton) discussion<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Symphony_No._2_(Walton)_discussion-Symphony_No._2_(Walton)-20250214151100"></span></h3></div> <div style="font-size:smaller"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Kovcszaln6-20250214151100-Symphony_No._2_(Walton)_discussion"></span>Please keep discussion to a minimum before being opened by a volunteer. Continue on article talk page if necessary.</div> <ul><li><b>Volunteer Note</b>: An editor <span class="plainlinks"><a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=&diff=prev&oldid=1275631314">has made</a></span> the requested compromises. Is there still a dispute? <a href="/wiki/User:Kovcszaln6" title="User:Kovcszaln6">Kovcszaln6</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Kovcszaln6" title="User talk:Kovcszaln6">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard#c-Kovcszaln6-20250214151100-Symphony_No._2_(Walton)_discussion" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:11, 14 February 2025 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Kovcszaln6-20250214151100-Symphony_No._2_(Walton)_discussion"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Kovcszaln6-20250214151100-Symphony_No._2_(Walton)_discussion"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-SchroCat-20250214151700-Kovcszaln6-20250214151100"></span>There probably wasn't really one before - this was opened ridiculously early without any effort being made on the talk page to settle this. A passing (extremely helpful) editor did what was necessary without any fuss or the additional dramah of filing at a noticeboard. - <a href="/wiki/User:SchroCat" title="User:SchroCat">SchroCat</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:SchroCat" title="User talk:SchroCat">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard#c-SchroCat-20250214151700-Kovcszaln6-20250214151100" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:17, 14 February 2025 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-SchroCat-20250214151700-Kovcszaln6-20250214151100"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-SchroCat-20250214151700-Kovcszaln6-20250214151100"></span></dd></dl></li></ul> <hr /> <dl><dd><i>The discussion above is closed. <span style="color:red"><b>Please do not modify it.</b></span> Subsequent comments should be made on the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard" title="Wikipedia talk:Dispute resolution noticeboard">dispute resolution noticeboard's talk page</a>. No further edits should be made to this discussion.</i></dd></dl></div> </td></tr></tbody></table></div> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Sean_Combs" data-mw-thread-id="h-Sean_Combs-Current_disputes-20250214044700"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Sean_Combs-Current_disputes-20250214044700"></span>Sean Combs<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Sean_Combs-Current_disputes-20250214044700"></span></h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <div style="float: right; clear: right; padding: 1px; margin: 0.2em 0 0.2em 1.4em;"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-162_etc.-20250214044700-Sean_Combs"></span><span style="border:darkgrey solid 1px;padding:4px"><span typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Symbol_wait_old.png" class="mw-file-description"><img src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c3/Symbol_wait_old.png/20px-Symbol_wait_old.png" decoding="async" width="20" height="21" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c3/Symbol_wait_old.png/30px-Symbol_wait_old.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c3/Symbol_wait_old.png/40px-Symbol_wait_old.png 2x" data-file-width="180" data-file-height="185" /></a></span> – New discussion.</span></div> <div style="float: right; clear: right; margin: 0.5em 0 0.7em 1.4em;">Filed by <a href="/wiki/User:162_etc." title="User:162 etc.">162 etc.</a> on <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard#c-162_etc.-20250214044700-Sean_Combs" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">04:47, 14 February 2025 (UTC)</a>.<span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-162_etc.-20250214044700-Sean_Combs"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-162_etc.-20250214044700-Sean_Combs"></span></div> <p><span style="font-size:110%"><b>Have you discussed this on a talk page?</b></span> </p><p>Yes, I have discussed this issue on a talk page already. </p><p><span style="font-size:110%"><b>Location of dispute</b></span> </p> <ul><li><span><a href="/wiki/Sean_Combs" title="Sean Combs">Sean Combs</a> <span class="plainlinks lx">(<a href="/wiki/Special:EditPage/Sean_Combs" title="Special:EditPage/Sean Combs">edit</a> | <a href="/wiki/Talk:Sean_Combs" title="Talk:Sean Combs">talk</a> | <a href="/wiki/Special:PageHistory/Sean_Combs" title="Special:PageHistory/Sean Combs">history</a> | <a href="/wiki/Special:WhatLinksHere/Sean_Combs" title="Special:WhatLinksHere/Sean Combs">links</a> | <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Sean_Combs&action=watch">watch</a> | <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3ALog&page=Sean+Combs">logs</a>)</span></span></li></ul> <p><span style="font-size:110%"><b>Users involved</b></span> </p> <ul><li><a href="/wiki/User:162_etc." title="User:162 etc.">162 etc.</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:162_etc." title="User talk:162 etc.">talk</a> <b>·</b> <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/162_etc." title="Special:Contributions/162 etc.">contribs</a>)</li> <li><a href="/wiki/User:Cena332" title="User:Cena332">Cena332</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Cena332" title="User talk:Cena332">talk</a> <b>·</b> <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Cena332" title="Special:Contributions/Cena332">contribs</a>)</li> <li><a href="/wiki/User:HumansRightsIsCool" title="User:HumansRightsIsCool">HumansRightsIsCool</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:HumansRightsIsCool" title="User talk:HumansRightsIsCool">talk</a> <b>·</b> <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/HumansRightsIsCool" title="Special:Contributions/HumansRightsIsCool">contribs</a>)</li></ul> <p><span style="font-size:110%"><b>Dispute overview</b></span> </p><p>Please see <a href="/wiki/Talk:Sean_Combs#Sean_"Puffy"_Combs" title="Talk:Sean Combs">Talk:Sean Combs#Sean "Puffy" Combs</a>. </p><p>Sean Combs used the stage name Sean "Puffy" Combs in his early career. This was <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Sean_Combs&diff=1273093420&oldid=1273092217">reverted</a> and then brought to the talk page, where numerous reliable sources were presented. However, there is a so-called "consensus" not to include this stage name cited by two editors. This "consensus" is not based on any Wikipedia policy or guideline, nor is it based on any reference to reliable sources. </p><p>Verified facts should be in the article. </p><p><span style="font-size:110%"><b>How have you tried to resolve this dispute before coming here?</b></span> </p><p><a href="/wiki/Talk:Sean_Combs#Sean_"Puffy"_Combs" title="Talk:Sean Combs">Talk:Sean Combs#Sean "Puffy" Combs</a> </p><p><span style="font-size:110%"><b>How do you think we can help resolve the dispute?</b></span> </p><p>A second opinion is needed to break this impasse. </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading4"><h4 id="Summary_of_dispute_by_Cena332" data-mw-thread-id="h-Summary_of_dispute_by_Cena332-Sean_Combs"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Summary_of_dispute_by_Cena332-Sean_Combs"></span>Summary of dispute by Cena332<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Summary_of_dispute_by_Cena332-Sean_Combs"></span></h4></div> <div style="font-size:smaller">Please keep it brief - less than 2000 characters if possible, it helps us help you quicker.</div> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading4"><h4 id="Summary_of_dispute_by_HumansRightsIsCool" data-mw-thread-id="h-Summary_of_dispute_by_HumansRightsIsCool-Sean_Combs"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Summary_of_dispute_by_HumansRightsIsCool-Sean_Combs"></span>Summary of dispute by HumansRightsIsCool<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Summary_of_dispute_by_HumansRightsIsCool-Sean_Combs"></span></h4></div> <div style="font-size:smaller">Please keep it brief - less than 2000 characters if possible, it helps us help you quicker.</div> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading3"><h3 id="Sean_Combs_discussion" data-mw-thread-id="h-Sean_Combs_discussion-Sean_Combs"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Sean_Combs_discussion-Sean_Combs"></span>Sean Combs discussion<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Sean_Combs_discussion-Sean_Combs"></span></h3></div> <div style="font-size:smaller">Please keep discussion to a minimum before being opened by a volunteer. Continue on article talk page if necessary.</div> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Amdo" data-mw-thread-id="h-Amdo-Current_disputes-20250218210500"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Amdo-Current_disputes-20250218210500"></span>Amdo<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Amdo-Current_disputes-20250218210500"></span></h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <div style="float: right; clear: right; padding: 1px; margin: 0.2em 0 0.2em 1.4em;"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Vacosea-20250218210500-Amdo"></span><span style="border:darkgrey solid 1px;padding:4px"><span typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Symbol_wait_old.png" class="mw-file-description"><img src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c3/Symbol_wait_old.png/20px-Symbol_wait_old.png" decoding="async" width="20" height="21" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c3/Symbol_wait_old.png/30px-Symbol_wait_old.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c3/Symbol_wait_old.png/40px-Symbol_wait_old.png 2x" data-file-width="180" data-file-height="185" /></a></span> – New discussion.</span></div> <div style="float: right; clear: right; margin: 0.5em 0 0.7em 1.4em;">Filed by <a href="/wiki/User:Vacosea" title="User:Vacosea">Vacosea</a> on <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard#c-Vacosea-20250218210500-Amdo" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:05, 18 February 2025 (UTC)</a>.<span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Vacosea-20250218210500-Amdo"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Vacosea-20250218210500-Amdo"></span></div> <p><span style="font-size:110%"><b>Have you discussed this on a talk page?</b></span> </p><p>Yes, I have discussed this issue on a talk page already. </p><p><span style="font-size:110%"><b>Location of dispute</b></span> </p> <ul><li><span><a href="/wiki/Amdo" title="Amdo">Amdo</a> <span class="plainlinks lx">(<a href="/wiki/Special:EditPage/Amdo" title="Special:EditPage/Amdo">edit</a> | <a href="/wiki/Talk:Amdo" title="Talk:Amdo">talk</a> | <a href="/wiki/Special:PageHistory/Amdo" title="Special:PageHistory/Amdo">history</a> | <a href="/wiki/Special:WhatLinksHere/Amdo" title="Special:WhatLinksHere/Amdo">links</a> | <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Amdo&action=watch">watch</a> | <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3ALog&page=Amdo">logs</a>)</span></span></li></ul> <p><span style="font-size:110%"><b>Users involved</b></span> </p> <ul><li><a href="/w/index.php?title=User:NicolasTn&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:NicolasTn (page does not exist)">NicolasTn</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:NicolasTn" title="User talk:NicolasTn">talk</a> <b>·</b> <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/NicolasTn" title="Special:Contributions/NicolasTn">contribs</a>)</li></ul> <p><span style="font-size:110%"><b>Dispute overview</b></span> </p><p>Should the details of the region's names go into the lead paragraph, its connection with China qualified by repeating statements already present in the lead and other parts of the article, are NicolasTn's own descriptions such as "Tibetan speakers of non-Tibetan origin" and "such description is of question" as well as other changes accurate and neutral? They are represented by these two revisions of the article <a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Amdo&diff=prev&oldid=1272486070">[6]</a> <a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Amdo&diff=prev&oldid=1276132885">[7]</a>. </p><p><span style="font-size:110%"><b>How have you tried to resolve this dispute before coming here?</b></span> </p><p><a href="/wiki/Talk:Amdo#Disputed_edits_September_2024" title="Talk:Amdo">Talk:Amdo#Disputed edits September 2024</a> <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard#Unresponsive_editor" title="Wikipedia talk:Dispute resolution noticeboard">Wikipedia talk:Dispute resolution noticeboard#Unresponsive editor</a> <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/IncidentArchive1175#Tendentious_editor" title="Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/IncidentArchive1175">Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/IncidentArchive1175#Tendentious editor</a> </p><p><span style="font-size:110%"><b>How do you think we can help resolve the dispute?</b></span> </p><p>There is not a lot of prior discussion due to NicolasTn's reluctance to engage, but this has been suggested by an admin so I thought it may be worth a try. </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading4"><h4 id="Summary_of_dispute_by_NicolasTn" data-mw-thread-id="h-Summary_of_dispute_by_NicolasTn-Amdo"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Summary_of_dispute_by_NicolasTn-Amdo"></span>Summary of dispute by NicolasTn<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Summary_of_dispute_by_NicolasTn-Amdo"></span></h4></div> <div style="font-size:smaller">Please keep it brief - less than 2000 characters if possible, it helps us help you quicker.</div> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading3"><h3 id="Amdo_discussion" data-mw-thread-id="h-Amdo_discussion-Amdo"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Amdo_discussion-Amdo"></span>Amdo discussion<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Amdo_discussion-Amdo"></span></h3></div> <div style="font-size:smaller">Please keep discussion to a minimum before being opened by a volunteer. Continue on article talk page if necessary.</div> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Elysian_Valley,_Los_Angeles" data-mw-thread-id="h-Elysian_Valley,_Los_Angeles-Current_disputes-20250218215400"><span id="Elysian_Valley.2C_Los_Angeles"></span><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Elysian_Valley,_Los_Angeles-Current_disputes-20250218215400"></span>Elysian Valley,_Los_Angeles<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Elysian_Valley,_Los_Angeles-Current_disputes-20250218215400"></span></h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <div style="float: right; clear: right; padding: 1px; margin: 0.2em 0 0.2em 1.4em;"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-2603:8000:DCF0:95D0:D5C0:7CB3:844E:FF60-20250218215400-Elysian_Valley,_Los_Angeles"></span><span style="border:darkgrey solid 1px;padding:4px"><span typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Symbol_wait_old.png" class="mw-file-description"><img src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c3/Symbol_wait_old.png/20px-Symbol_wait_old.png" decoding="async" width="20" height="21" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c3/Symbol_wait_old.png/30px-Symbol_wait_old.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c3/Symbol_wait_old.png/40px-Symbol_wait_old.png 2x" data-file-width="180" data-file-height="185" /></a></span> – New discussion.</span></div> <div style="float: right; clear: right; margin: 0.5em 0 0.7em 1.4em;">Filed by <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:2603:8000:DCF0:95D0:D5C0:7CB3:844E:FF60&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:2603:8000:DCF0:95D0:D5C0:7CB3:844E:FF60 (page does not exist)">2603:8000:DCF0:95D0:D5C0:7CB3:844E:FF60</a> on <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard#c-2603:8000:DCF0:95D0:D5C0:7CB3:844E:FF60-20250218215400-Elysian_Valley,_Los_Angeles" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:54, 18 February 2025 (UTC)</a>.<span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-2603:8000:DCF0:95D0:D5C0:7CB3:844E:FF60-20250218215400-Elysian_Valley,_Los_Angeles"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-2603:8000:DCF0:95D0:D5C0:7CB3:844E:FF60-20250218215400-Elysian_Valley,_Los_Angeles"></span></div> <p><span style="font-size:110%"><b>Have you discussed this on a talk page?</b></span> </p><p>Yes, I have discussed this issue on a talk page already. </p><p><span style="font-size:110%"><b>Location of dispute</b></span> </p> <ul><li><span><a href="/wiki/Elysian_Valley,_Los_Angeles" title="Elysian Valley, Los Angeles">Elysian Valley, Los Angeles</a> <span class="plainlinks lx">(<a href="/wiki/Special:EditPage/Elysian_Valley,_Los_Angeles" title="Special:EditPage/Elysian Valley, Los Angeles">edit</a> | <a href="/wiki/Talk:Elysian_Valley,_Los_Angeles" title="Talk:Elysian Valley, Los Angeles">talk</a> | <a href="/wiki/Special:PageHistory/Elysian_Valley,_Los_Angeles" title="Special:PageHistory/Elysian Valley, Los Angeles">history</a> | <a href="/wiki/Special:WhatLinksHere/Elysian_Valley,_Los_Angeles" title="Special:WhatLinksHere/Elysian Valley, Los Angeles">links</a> | <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Elysian_Valley,_Los_Angeles&action=watch">watch</a> | <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3ALog&page=Elysian+Valley%2C+Los+Angeles">logs</a>)</span></span></li> <li><span><a href="/wiki/Los_Angeles" title="Los Angeles">Los Angeles</a> <span class="plainlinks lx">(<a href="/wiki/Special:EditPage/Los_Angeles" title="Special:EditPage/Los Angeles">edit</a> | <a href="/wiki/Talk:Los_Angeles" title="Talk:Los Angeles">talk</a> | <a href="/wiki/Special:PageHistory/Los_Angeles" title="Special:PageHistory/Los Angeles">history</a> | <a href="/wiki/Special:WhatLinksHere/Los_Angeles" title="Special:WhatLinksHere/Los Angeles">links</a> | <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Los_Angeles&action=watch">watch</a> | <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3ALog&page=Los+Angeles">logs</a>)</span></span></li></ul> <p><span style="font-size:110%"><b>Users involved</b></span> </p> <ul><li><a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Phatblackmama&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Phatblackmama (page does not exist)">phatblackmama</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Phatblackmama" title="User talk:Phatblackmama">talk</a> <b>·</b> <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/phatblackmama" title="Special:Contributions/phatblackmama">contribs</a>)</li></ul> <p><span style="font-size:110%"><b>Dispute overview</b></span> </p><p>A user named "phatblackmama" continuously and immediately reverts edits and it is evidenced in the history that this user has done that for many years. This user is not actively compromising or taken into consideration input from someone actually familiar with the community, despite being provided with legitimate sources and respectful disagreement. Corrections to formatting and sourcing are understandable, but the user will not compromise on many other items, and will not consider other input. Though it's evidenced they edit Wikipedia pages full-time and have for many, many, years, my goal is only to make sure a specific Wikipedia page for a neighborhood I know well and love is accurately represented. In addition, this user has posted inaccurate information and has been incorrect in some of their claims, furthering my argument that they should not solely control the page. </p><p><span style="font-size:110%"><b>How have you tried to resolve this dispute before coming here?</b></span> </p><p><a class="external free" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Elysian_Valley,_Los_Angeles#February_2025_changes">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Elysian_Valley,_Los_Angeles#February_2025_changes</a> </p><p><span style="font-size:110%"><b>How do you think we can help resolve the dispute?</b></span> </p><p>Please review the discussion, edits, and sources, and consider allowing my edits. They are justifiable and accurate, and I've provided legitimate sources and reasonable opinion, but my edits are consistently and immediately undone by user phatblackmama. </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading4"><h4 id="Summary_of_dispute_by_phatblackmama" data-mw-thread-id="h-Summary_of_dispute_by_phatblackmama-Elysian_Valley,_Los_Angeles-20250218233800"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Summary_of_dispute_by_phatblackmama-Elysian_Valley,_Los_Angeles-20250218233800"></span>Summary of dispute by phatblackmama<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Summary_of_dispute_by_phatblackmama-Elysian_Valley,_Los_Angeles-20250218233800"></span></h4></div> <div style="font-size:smaller"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Phatblackmama-20250218233800-Summary_of_dispute_by_phatblackmama"></span>Please keep it brief - less than 2000 characters if possible, it helps us help you quicker.</div> <p>Not sure what the specific problem is. </p> <ul><li>The user wanted to add a statement about "distinctive steel orange bridge". They added a citation. The statement is there.</li></ul> <ul><li>The user added the following statement to the lede: "Elysian Valley is located between the Golden State Freeway (Interstate 5) and the Los Angeles River. This distinctive geographic positioning has significantly contributed to the neighborhood's unique character." Nowhere else in the article did it explain how "distinctive geographic positioning has significantly contributed to the neighborhood's unique character." The statement was just sitting there as an unexplained concept. An explanation is <a href="/wiki/Elysian_Valley,_Los_Angeles#Geography" title="Elysian Valley, Los Angeles">there now</a> in the geography section, with a citation that I provided from the <a href="/wiki/Los_Angeles_Times" title="Los Angeles Times">Los Angeles Times </a> explaining what "distinctive geography" means for this neighborhood.</li></ul> <ul><li>I have explained multiple times that a lede " is an introduction to an article and a summary of its most important contents". It does not focus simply on the geography. That is what the geography section is for.</li></ul> <ul><li>I do disagree with their deletions of the history of the Elysian theater. It has a 100-year-old history in this community, starting as a silent movie house. That history is reflected in its entry. They stated on the Talk Page that the photo was from a previous theater company. I had no problem with it. But it bothered them. And it is gone.</li></ul> <ul><li>I also disagree with the heading they wish to place the <a href="/wiki/Elysian_Valley,_Los_Angeles#Arts_and_culture" title="Elysian Valley, Los Angeles">Elysian theater</a> under. Rather than under the heading of "Arts and culture", they want it under the heading of "Non-profits in Elysian Valley"<a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Elysian_Valley,_Los_Angeles&oldid=1275999863">[8]</a>. I have explained to them that this theater should be listed by its purpose, not its funding. The <a href="/wiki/Geffen_Playhouse" title="Geffen Playhouse">Geffen Playhouse</a>, which is also a non-profit, is listed in <a href="/wiki/Westwood,_Los_Angeles#Entertainment_and_cultural_facilities" title="Westwood, Los Angeles">Westwood</a> and sits under the heading "Entertainment and cultural facilities" -- not under the heading "Non-profits in Westwood".</li></ul> <ul><li>I am not sure what edits I made that are "incorrect". Perhaps they are referring to when the user deleted the <a href="/wiki/Suay_Sew_Shop" title="Suay Sew Shop">Suay Sew Shop</a> without stating a reason in an edit summary. Since it was a notable business, I restored it and said to discuss it on Talk page. They then posted on the Talk Page that it moved to another neighborhood. Simple. Now it stays out.</li></ul> <ul><li>On the Talk Page, I have asked this user to make individual changes with edit summaries and not group twenty different changes into one edit. They complied with that request in their most recent edits.</li></ul> <p><a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Phatblackmama&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Phatblackmama (page does not exist)">Phatblackmama</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Phatblackmama" title="User talk:Phatblackmama">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard#c-Phatblackmama-20250218233800-Summary_of_dispute_by_phatblackmama" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:38, 18 February 2025 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Phatblackmama-20250218233800-Summary_of_dispute_by_phatblackmama"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Phatblackmama-20250218233800-Summary_of_dispute_by_phatblackmama"></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading3"><h3 id="Elysian_Valley,_Los_Angeles_discussion" data-mw-thread-id="h-Elysian_Valley,_Los_Angeles_discussion-Elysian_Valley,_Los_Angeles"><span id="Elysian_Valley.2C_Los_Angeles_discussion"></span><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Elysian_Valley,_Los_Angeles_discussion-Elysian_Valley,_Los_Angeles"></span>Elysian Valley,_Los_Angeles discussion<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Elysian_Valley,_Los_Angeles_discussion-Elysian_Valley,_Los_Angeles"></span></h3></div> <div style="font-size:smaller">Please keep discussion to a minimum before being opened by a volunteer. Continue on article talk page if necessary.</div> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Mikheil_Kavelashvili" data-mw-thread-id="h-Mikheil_Kavelashvili-Current_disputes-20250219060200"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Mikheil_Kavelashvili-Current_disputes-20250219060200"></span>Mikheil Kavelashvili<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Mikheil_Kavelashvili-Current_disputes-20250219060200"></span></h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <div style="float: right; clear: right; padding: 1px; margin: 0.2em 0 0.2em 1.4em;"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Malev_oleg-20250219060200-Mikheil_Kavelashvili"></span><span style="border:darkgrey solid 1px;padding:4px"><span typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Symbol_wait_old.png" class="mw-file-description"><img src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c3/Symbol_wait_old.png/20px-Symbol_wait_old.png" decoding="async" width="20" height="21" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c3/Symbol_wait_old.png/30px-Symbol_wait_old.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c3/Symbol_wait_old.png/40px-Symbol_wait_old.png 2x" data-file-width="180" data-file-height="185" /></a></span> – New discussion.</span></div> <div style="float: right; clear: right; margin: 0.5em 0 0.7em 1.4em;">Filed by <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Malev_oleg&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Malev oleg (page does not exist)">Malev oleg</a> on <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard#c-Malev_oleg-20250219060200-Mikheil_Kavelashvili" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">06:02, 19 February 2025 (UTC)</a>.<span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Malev_oleg-20250219060200-Mikheil_Kavelashvili"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Malev_oleg-20250219060200-Mikheil_Kavelashvili"></span></div> <p><span style="font-size:110%"><b>Have you discussed this on a talk page?</b></span> </p><p>Yes, I have discussed this issue on a talk page already. </p><p><span style="font-size:110%"><b>Location of dispute</b></span> </p> <ul><li><span><a href="/wiki/Mikheil_Kavelashvili" title="Mikheil Kavelashvili">Mikheil Kavelashvili</a> <span class="plainlinks lx">(<a href="/wiki/Special:EditPage/Mikheil_Kavelashvili" title="Special:EditPage/Mikheil Kavelashvili">edit</a> | <a href="/wiki/Talk:Mikheil_Kavelashvili" title="Talk:Mikheil Kavelashvili">talk</a> | <a href="/wiki/Special:PageHistory/Mikheil_Kavelashvili" title="Special:PageHistory/Mikheil Kavelashvili">history</a> | <a href="/wiki/Special:WhatLinksHere/Mikheil_Kavelashvili" title="Special:WhatLinksHere/Mikheil Kavelashvili">links</a> | <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Mikheil_Kavelashvili&action=watch">watch</a> | <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3ALog&page=Mikheil+Kavelashvili">logs</a>)</span></span></li></ul> <p><span style="font-size:110%"><b>Users involved</b></span> </p> <ul><li><a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Malev_oleg&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Malev oleg (page does not exist)">Malev oleg</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Malev_oleg" title="User talk:Malev oleg">talk</a> <b>·</b> <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Malev_oleg" title="Special:Contributions/Malev oleg">contribs</a>)</li> <li><a href="/wiki/User:Tahomaru" title="User:Tahomaru">Tahomaru</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Tahomaru" title="User talk:Tahomaru">talk</a> <b>·</b> <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Tahomaru" title="Special:Contributions/Tahomaru">contribs</a>)</li> <li><a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Labrang.&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Labrang. (page does not exist)">Labrang.</a> (<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Labrang.&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User talk:Labrang. (page does not exist)">talk</a> <b>·</b> <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Labrang." title="Special:Contributions/Labrang.">contribs</a>)</li></ul> <p><span style="font-size:110%"><b>Dispute overview</b></span> </p><p>The dispute concerns whether the infobox of the Mikheil Kavelashvili article should include the term "disputed" when referring to his presidency. Some editors argue that the 2024 Georgian parliamentary elections were widely challenged and that Kavelashvili’s position should be marked as disputed in the infobox. However, while international organizations such as the OSCE and the European Parliament have expressed concerns over electoral integrity, no authoritative body has officially declared the election results invalid or unrecognized. </p><p>Wikipedia's Neutral Point of View (NPOV) and Verifiability policies require that such a label be based on explicit attribution from reliable sources. The sources cited describe serious election concerns, but they do not categorically label Kavelashvili’s presidency as disputed in a legal or official sense. Instead, these concerns are best represented within the article body and through explanatory footnotes, rather than in the infobox, which should provide a neutral summary. </p><p>Despite extensive talk page discussions, some editors continue to insist on using the "disputed" label in a way that overstates the available evidence. Attempts to reach a compromise—such as detailing concerns in the text rather than the infobox—have been met with resistance. </p><p><span style="font-size:110%"><b>How have you tried to resolve this dispute before coming here?</b></span> </p><p><a class="external free" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Labrang#Claimed_president">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Labrang#Claimed_president</a> </p><p><span style="font-size:110%"><b>How do you think we can help resolve the dispute?</b></span> </p><p>A neutral third-party review is needed to determine whether the "disputed" label in the infobox aligns with Wikipedia's Neutrality (NPOV) and Verifiability policies. The resolution should clarify whether concerns raised by international bodies are sufficient to justify using "disputed" in the infobox or whether these issues should be confined to the article body and footnotes. </p><p>A ruling on how to apply dispute-related terminology consistently across Georgian political articles would also be good </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading4"><h4 id="Summary_of_dispute_by_Tahomaru" data-mw-thread-id="h-Summary_of_dispute_by_Tahomaru-Mikheil_Kavelashvili"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Summary_of_dispute_by_Tahomaru-Mikheil_Kavelashvili"></span>Summary of dispute by Tahomaru<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Summary_of_dispute_by_Tahomaru-Mikheil_Kavelashvili"></span></h4></div> <div style="font-size:smaller">Please keep it brief - less than 2000 characters if possible, it helps us help you quicker.</div> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading4"><h4 id="Summary_of_dispute_by_Labrang." data-mw-thread-id="h-Summary_of_dispute_by_Labrang.-Mikheil_Kavelashvili"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Summary_of_dispute_by_Labrang.-Mikheil_Kavelashvili"></span>Summary of dispute by Labrang.<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Summary_of_dispute_by_Labrang.-Mikheil_Kavelashvili"></span></h4></div> <div style="font-size:smaller">Please keep it brief - less than 2000 characters if possible, it helps us help you quicker.</div> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading3"><h3 id="Mikheil_Kavelashvili_discussion" data-mw-thread-id="h-Mikheil_Kavelashvili_discussion-Mikheil_Kavelashvili"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Mikheil_Kavelashvili_discussion-Mikheil_Kavelashvili"></span>Mikheil Kavelashvili discussion<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Mikheil_Kavelashvili_discussion-Mikheil_Kavelashvili"></span></h3></div> <div style="font-size:smaller">Please keep discussion to a minimum before being opened by a volunteer. Continue on article talk page if necessary.</div> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Gulf_of_Mexico" data-mw-thread-id="h-Gulf_of_Mexico-Current_disputes-20250219124200"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Gulf_of_Mexico-Current_disputes-20250219124200"></span>Gulf of_Mexico<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Gulf_of_Mexico-Current_disputes-20250219124200"></span></h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <div style="float: right; clear: right; padding: 1px; margin: 0.2em 0 0.2em 1.4em;"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Lincoln2020-20250219124200-Gulf_of_Mexico"></span><span style="border:darkgrey solid 1px;padding:4px"><span typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Symbol_wait_old.png" class="mw-file-description"><img src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c3/Symbol_wait_old.png/20px-Symbol_wait_old.png" decoding="async" width="20" height="21" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c3/Symbol_wait_old.png/30px-Symbol_wait_old.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c3/Symbol_wait_old.png/40px-Symbol_wait_old.png 2x" data-file-width="180" data-file-height="185" /></a></span> – New discussion.</span></div> <div style="float: right; clear: right; margin: 0.5em 0 0.7em 1.4em;">Filed by <a href="/wiki/User:Lincoln2020" title="User:Lincoln2020">Lincoln2020</a> on <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard#c-Lincoln2020-20250219124200-Gulf_of_Mexico" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">12:42, 19 February 2025 (UTC)</a>.<span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Lincoln2020-20250219124200-Gulf_of_Mexico"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Lincoln2020-20250219124200-Gulf_of_Mexico"></span></div> <p><span style="font-size:110%"><b>Have you discussed this on a talk page?</b></span> </p><p>Yes, I have discussed this issue on a talk page already. </p><p><span style="font-size:110%"><b>Location of dispute</b></span> </p> <ul><li><span><a href="/wiki/Gulf_of_Mexico" title="Gulf of Mexico">Gulf of Mexico</a> <span class="plainlinks lx">(<a href="/wiki/Special:EditPage/Gulf_of_Mexico" title="Special:EditPage/Gulf of Mexico">edit</a> | <a href="/wiki/Talk:Gulf_of_Mexico" title="Talk:Gulf of Mexico">talk</a> | <a href="/wiki/Special:PageHistory/Gulf_of_Mexico" title="Special:PageHistory/Gulf of Mexico">history</a> | <a href="/wiki/Special:WhatLinksHere/Gulf_of_Mexico" title="Special:WhatLinksHere/Gulf of Mexico">links</a> | <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Gulf_of_Mexico&action=watch">watch</a> | <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3ALog&page=Gulf+of+Mexico">logs</a>)</span></span></li></ul> <p><span style="font-size:110%"><b>Users involved</b></span> </p> <ul><li><a href="/wiki/User:Lincoln2020" title="User:Lincoln2020">Lincoln2020</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Lincoln2020" title="User talk:Lincoln2020">talk</a> <b>·</b> <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Lincoln2020" title="Special:Contributions/Lincoln2020">contribs</a>)</li> <li><a href="/wiki/User:Valereee" title="User:Valereee">Valereee</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Valereee" title="User talk:Valereee">talk</a> <b>·</b> <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Valereee" title="Special:Contributions/Valereee">contribs</a>)</li> <li><a href="/wiki/User:Objective3000" title="User:Objective3000">Objective3000</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Objective3000" title="User talk:Objective3000">talk</a> <b>·</b> <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Objective3000" title="Special:Contributions/Objective3000">contribs</a>)</li> <li><a href="/wiki/User:Simonm223" title="User:Simonm223">Simonm223</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Simonm223" title="User talk:Simonm223">talk</a> <b>·</b> <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Simonm223" title="Special:Contributions/Simonm223">contribs</a>)</li></ul> <p><span style="font-size:110%"><b>Dispute overview</b></span> </p><p>Recently, the Gulf of Mexico (The Gulf of America) underwent an official name change in the United States. This was followed by changes in official systems as well as changes in the largest map providers' platforms (Google, Apple, etc.). </p><p>I think many assumed Wikipedia would reflect this name change, somehow, or at least acknowledge that the largest English speaking nation bordering the Gulf has made an attempt to officially change its name. </p><p>However in reviewing the changes, there was not only no change, but a very lengthy discussion page. This included an improperly conducted RFC. This RFC is now being used as a cudgel, shutting down any conversation of consensus or compromise. </p><p>Why the RFC was improperly conducted: -In reviewing active and archived RFCs, I do not see an RFC for The Gulf of Mexico (or America). -The rationale listed for closing the 'RFC', and thus finding a consensus, seems to have some policy violations, or at least rationale inconsistent with the RFC and Consensus pages. --Great weight was given toward voting/majority. "Consensus on Wikipedia (is not the) result of a vote." Wikipedia:Consensus ---"Most cogent policy reasons" ... "but they were vastly in the minority" ---Many opinions went against wiki policy WP:TPNO </p> <hr /><p>Eg:"I sincerely oppose any name change to Gulf of America. I am a US citizen and I do NOT agree to the name change whatsoever and I sincerely hope Wikipedia does NOT feel intimidated by Trump to change it" </p><p>--"Recentism" was listed as the rationale for closing it. I think this would have been appropriate if, say, one official mentioned this body of water by a different name. Yet as noted, official sources have changed it. Recentism's page also notes that recentism shouldn't be an argument against updating pages with new developments (noting a trial which changed daily, for example). </p><p>Wikipedia's neutrality is at stake here. Clearly doing nothing is unreasonable. Ty. Probably applies to Denali too. </p><p><br /> </p><p><br /> <span style="font-size:110%"><b>How have you tried to resolve this dispute before coming here?</b></span> </p><p>Have tried having rational discussions on the merits but currently there's an attempt to silence any dissent with a moratorium conversation. </p><p><span style="font-size:110%"><b>How do you think we can help resolve the dispute?</b></span> </p><p>Honestly I'm not sure. Wikipedia is supposed to be an unbiased, neutral source for information. Anyone can see that today, it's clearly not that, and that's really frustrating and unfortunate. </p><p>At the very least, the article should have reference to the major changes which have occurred. Whether or not they're lasting, it becomes its main name, whatever, I'm not sure ... but I don't see any sort of reasonable explanation for not having it mentioned. </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading4"><h4 id="Summary_of_dispute_by_Valereee" data-mw-thread-id="h-Summary_of_dispute_by_Valereee-Gulf_of_Mexico"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Summary_of_dispute_by_Valereee-Gulf_of_Mexico"></span>Summary of dispute by Valereee<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Summary_of_dispute_by_Valereee-Gulf_of_Mexico"></span></h4></div> <div style="font-size:smaller">Please keep it brief - less than 2000 characters if possible, it helps us help you quicker.</div> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading4"><h4 id="Summary_of_dispute_by_Objective3000" data-mw-thread-id="h-Summary_of_dispute_by_Objective3000-Gulf_of_Mexico"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Summary_of_dispute_by_Objective3000-Gulf_of_Mexico"></span>Summary of dispute by Objective3000<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Summary_of_dispute_by_Objective3000-Gulf_of_Mexico"></span></h4></div> <div style="font-size:smaller">Please keep it brief - less than 2000 characters if possible, it helps us help you quicker.</div> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading4"><h4 id="Summary_of_dispute_by_Simonm223" data-mw-thread-id="h-Summary_of_dispute_by_Simonm223-Gulf_of_Mexico"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Summary_of_dispute_by_Simonm223-Gulf_of_Mexico"></span>Summary of dispute by Simonm223<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Summary_of_dispute_by_Simonm223-Gulf_of_Mexico"></span></h4></div> <div style="font-size:smaller">Please keep it brief - less than 2000 characters if possible, it helps us help you quicker.</div> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading3"><h3 id="Gulf_of_Mexico_discussion" data-mw-thread-id="h-Gulf_of_Mexico_discussion-Gulf_of_Mexico"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Gulf_of_Mexico_discussion-Gulf_of_Mexico"></span>Gulf of_Mexico discussion<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Gulf_of_Mexico_discussion-Gulf_of_Mexico"></span></h3></div> <div style="font-size:smaller">Please keep discussion to a minimum before being opened by a volunteer. Continue on article talk page if necessary.</div></div><noscript><img src="https://login.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:CentralAutoLogin/start?useformat=desktop&type=1x1&usesul3=0" alt="" width="1" height="1" style="border: none; position: absolute;"></noscript> <div class="printfooter" data-nosnippet="">Retrieved from "<a dir="ltr" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard&oldid=1276537810">https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard&oldid=1276537810</a>"</div></div> <div id="catlinks" class="catlinks" data-mw="interface"><div id="mw-normal-catlinks" class="mw-normal-catlinks"><a href="/wiki/Help:Category" title="Help:Category">Categories</a>: <ul><li><a href="/wiki/Category:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard" title="Category:Dispute resolution noticeboard">Dispute resolution noticeboard</a></li><li><a href="/wiki/Category:Wikipedia_noticeboards" title="Category:Wikipedia noticeboards">Wikipedia noticeboards</a></li></ul></div><div id="mw-hidden-catlinks" class="mw-hidden-catlinks mw-hidden-cats-hidden">Hidden categories: <ul><li><a href="/wiki/Category:Noindexed_pages" title="Category:Noindexed pages">Noindexed pages</a></li><li><a href="/wiki/Category:Wikipedia_move-protected_project_pages" title="Category:Wikipedia move-protected project pages">Wikipedia move-protected project pages</a></li><li><a href="/wiki/Category:Non-talk_pages_that_are_automatically_signed" title="Category:Non-talk pages that are automatically signed">Non-talk pages that are automatically signed</a></li><li><a href="/wiki/Category:Pages_that_should_not_be_manually_archived" title="Category:Pages that should not be manually archived">Pages that should not be manually archived</a></li></ul></div></div> </div> </main> </div> <div class="mw-footer-container"> <footer id="footer" class="mw-footer" > <ul id="footer-info"> <li id="footer-info-lastmod"> This page was last edited on 19 February 2025, at 12:42<span class="anonymous-show"> (UTC)</span>.</li> <li id="footer-info-copyright"><span class="nowraplinks">This version of the page has been <a href="/wiki/Help:Page_history" title="Help:Page history">revised</a>. 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