[savnet] Re: Shepherd review of draft-ietf-savnet-intra-domain-problem-statement

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href="mailto:savnet@ietf.org?subject=Re: [savnet] Re: Shepherd review of draft-ietf-savnet-intra-domain-problem-statement" class="reply-link" title="Reply"><i class="fas fa-reply fa-lg"></i></a> <a href="/arch/msg/savnet/kv5nuwlUvk7gZUY4jzjk-y6I-eU/download/" class="download-link" title="Message Download"><i class="fa fa-download fa-lg"></i></a> <a href="https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/savnet/kv5nuwlUvk7gZUY4jzjk-y6I-eU/" class="detail-link" title="Message Detail"><i class="fa fa-link fa-lg"></i></a> </div> <h3>[savnet] Re: Shepherd review of draft-ietf-savnet-intra-domain-problem-statement</h3> <p id="msg-info" class="msg-header"> <span id="msg-from" class="pipe">Lancheng <qinlc@mail.zgclab.edu.cn></span> <span id="msg-date" class="pipe">Wed, 20 November 2024 09:19 UTC</span> </p> <div id="msg-header" class="msg-header"> <p> Return-Path: <qinlc@mail.zgclab.edu.cn><br /> X-Original-To: savnet@ietfa.amsl.com<br /> Delivered-To: savnet@ietfa.amsl.com<br /> Received: from localhost 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UTF-8<br /> From: Lancheng <qinlc@mail.zgclab.edu.cn><br /> To: Joel Halpern <jmh@joelhalpern.com><br /> X-Priority: 3<br /> X-Mailer: Coremail Webmail Server Version 2024.1-cmXT5 build 20240729(6d2960c6) Copyright (c) 2002-2024 www.mailtech.cn mispb-4df55a87-4b50-4a66-85a0-70f79cb6c8b5-tsinghua.edu.cn<br /> In-Reply-To: <b1f01e7e-de39-4a1c-8062-a9b1db66b41f@joelhalpern.com><br /> References: <20241119115418352jbPpBkRuWaM2Vr-2uQr3f@zte.com.cn> <502042ab.c801.19343ad0047.Coremail.qinlc@mail.zgclab.edu.cn> <241f6fb7-99e9-412d-a8ae-25df7b2685fa@joelhalpern.com> <45df7ee2.d471.19344f2cff1.Coremail.qinlc@mail.zgclab.edu.cn> <b1f01e7e-de39-4a1c-8062-a9b1db66b41f@joelhalpern.com><br /> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_202379_1185003158.1732094345911"<br /> MIME-Version: 1.0<br /> Message-ID: <25a8fa86.e3f9.19348de42b7.Coremail.qinlc@mail.zgclab.edu.cn><br /> X-Coremail-Locale: en_US<br /> X-CM-TRANSID: zAQGZQCnSeSJqT1n2ZMoAQ--.23391W<br /> X-CM-SenderInfo: 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<https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/savnet/kv5nuwlUvk7gZUY4jzjk-y6I-eU><br /> List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/savnet><br /> List-Help: <mailto:savnet-request@ietf.org?subject=help><br /> List-Owner: <mailto:savnet-owner@ietf.org><br /> List-Post: <mailto:savnet@ietf.org><br /> List-Subscribe: <mailto:savnet-join@ietf.org><br /> List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:savnet-leave@ietf.org><br /> </p> </div> <div class="msg-payload"> <pre class="wordwrap">Hi Joel and Xueyan, Thank you for your thoughtful comments. I will revise this example (i.e., just using IPv6 in Section 3.1.1) and upload the new version later. Best, Lancheng -----Original Messages----- From:"Joel Halpern" <a href="mailto:&lt;jmh@joelhalpern.com&gt;"><jmh@joelhalpern.com></a> Send time:Wednesday, 11/20/2024 00:51:03 To: Lancheng <a href="mailto:&lt;qinlc@mail.zgclab.edu.cn&gt;"><qinlc@mail.zgclab.edu.cn></a>, "Joel Halpern" <a href="mailto:&lt;jmh@joelhalpern.com&gt;"><jmh@joelhalpern.com></a> Cc: Lancheng <a href="mailto:&lt;qinlc=40mail.zgclab.edu.cn@dmarc.ietf.org&gt;"><qinlc=40mail.zgclab.edu.cn@dmarc.ietf.org></a>, <a href="mailto:song.xueyan2@zte.com.cn">song.xueyan2@zte.com.cn</a>, <a href="mailto:draft-ietf-savnet-intra-domain-problem-statement@ietf.org">draft-ietf-savnet-intra-domain-problem-statement@ietf.org</a>, <a href="mailto:savnet@ietf.org">savnet@ietf.org</a> Subject: Re: [savnet] Re: Shepherd review of draft-ietf-savnet-intra-domain-problem-statement It is largely up to you. Using either just IPv6 or both IPv4 and IPv6 are current practices. Personally, unless I think Ipv4 examples are necessary, I prefer to use just IPv6. Yours, Joel On 11/19/2024 10:03 AM, Lancheng wrote: Thanks. Now I understand Xueyan's suggestions. Can I just use IPv6 in Section 3.1.1? or use IPv4 in Section 3.1.1 and use IPv6 in Section 3.1.2? Best Lancheng -----Original Messages----- From:"Joel Halpern" <a href="mailto:&lt;jmh@joelhalpern.com&gt;"><jmh@joelhalpern.com></a> Send time:Tuesday, 11/19/2024 22:52:22 To: Lancheng <a href="mailto:&lt;qinlc=40mail.zgclab.edu.cn@dmarc.ietf.org&gt;"><qinlc=40mail.zgclab.edu.cn@dmarc.ietf.org></a>, <a href="mailto:song.xueyan2@zte.com.cn">song.xueyan2@zte.com.cn</a> Cc:draft-ietf-savnet-intra-domain-problem-statement@ietf.org, <a href="mailto:savnet@ietf.org">savnet@ietf.org</a> Subject: [savnet] Re: Shepherd review of draft-ietf-savnet-intra-domain-problem-statement Common current IETF practice is to either provide examples only with IPv6 or with both IPv4 and IPv6. Yours, Joel On 11/19/2024 4:07 AM, Lancheng wrote: Hi Xueyan, >Do you think the IPv6 addresses are in the scope of SAVNET inter-domain? Lancheng: Yes, both IPv4 and IPv6 are in the scope of intra-domain SAV. In Section 1, we say that "Validating both IPv4 and IPv6 addresses." >If yes, would you consider to add IPv6 examples to section 3.1.1 or add a new section to cover it? I do not think we need another IPv6 example/figure to describe the same problem of section 3.1.1, which would be redundant. Can I change the statement to "It owns an IPv4 or IPv6 prefix (e.g., 192.0.2.0/24 [RFC6890]) and is attached to two intra-domain routers, i.e., Router 1 and Router 2."? Best, Lancheng -----Original Messages----- From:song.xueyan2@zte.com.cn Send time:Tuesday, 11/19/2024 11:54:18 To:qinlc=40mail.zgclab.edu.cn@dmarc.ietf.org Cc:draft-ietf-savnet-intra-domain-problem-statement@ietf.org, <a href="mailto:savnet@ietf.org">savnet@ietf.org</a> Subject: [savnet] Re: Shepherd review of draft-ietf-savnet-intra-domain-problem-statement Hi Lancheng and authors, When checking the idnits of the document, it uses examples using IPv4 addresses according to RFC6890, but no examples using IPv6 addresses. Do you think the IPv6 addresses are in the scope of SAVNET inter-domain? If yes, would you consider to add IPv6 examples to section 3.1.1 or add a new section to cover it? Best regards, Xueyan Original From: 宋雪雁00038118 To: Lancheng <a href="mailto:&lt;qinlc=40mail.zgclab.edu.cn@dmarc.ietf.org&gt;"><qinlc=40mail.zgclab.edu.cn@dmarc.ietf.org></a>; Cc: draft-ietf-savnet-intra-domain-problem-statement@ietf.org<draft-ietf-savnet-intra-domain-problem-statement@ietf.org>;savnet@ietf.org<savnet@ietf.org>; Date: 2024年11月12日 20:27 Subject: Re: [savnet] Re: Shepherd review of draft-ietf-savnet-intra-domain-problem-statement Thank you Lancheng, the updated version looks good to me. I will make updates and submit the final-version for write-up answers. Best regards, Xueyan From: Lancheng <a href="mailto:&lt;qinlc=40mail.zgclab.edu.cn@dmarc.ietf.org&gt;"><qinlc=40mail.zgclab.edu.cn@dmarc.ietf.org></a> To: 宋雪雁00038118; Cc: draft-ietf-savnet-intra-domain-problem-statement@ietf.org<draft-ietf-savnet-intra-domain-problem-statement@ietf.org>;savnet@ietf.org<savnet@ietf.org>; Date: 2024年11月11日 21:01 Subject: [savnet] Re: Shepherd review of draft-ietf-savnet-intra-domain-problem-statement -- savnet mailing list -- <a href="mailto:savnet@ietf.org">savnet@ietf.org</a> To unsubscribe send an email to <a href="mailto:savnet-leave@ietf.org">savnet-leave@ietf.org</a> Dear Xueyan and all, We have updated this document according to shepherd's comments. Thanks, Lancheng Internet-Draft draft-ietf-savnet-intra-domain-problem-statement-07.txt is now available. It is a work item of the Source Address Validation in Intra-domain and Inter-domain Networks (SAVNET) WG of the IETF. Title: Source Address Validation in Intra-domain Networks Gap Analysis, Problem Statement, and Requirements Authors: Dan Li Jianping Wu Lancheng Qin Mingqing Huang Nan Geng Name: draft-ietf-savnet-intra-domain-problem-statement-07.txt Pages: 16 Dates: 2024-11-11 Abstract: This document provides the gap analysis of existing intra-domain source address validation mechanisms, describes the fundamental problems, and defines the requirements for technical improvements. The IETF datatracker status page for this Internet-Draft is: <a href="https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-savnet-intra-domain-problem-statement/" rel="nofollow">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-savnet-intra-domain-problem-statement/</a> There is also an HTML version available at: <a href="https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-ietf-savnet-intra-domain-problem-statement-07.html" rel="nofollow">https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-ietf-savnet-intra-domain-problem-statement-07.html</a> A diff from the previous version is available at: <a href="https://author-tools.ietf.org/iddiff?url2=draft-ietf-savnet-intra-domain-problem-statement-07" rel="nofollow">https://author-tools.ietf.org/iddiff?url2=draft-ietf-savnet-intra-domain-problem-statement-07</a> Internet-Drafts are also available by rsync at: rsync.ietf.org::internet-drafts -- savnet mailing list -- <a href="mailto:savnet@ietf.org">savnet@ietf.org</a> To unsubscribe send an email to <a href="mailto:savnet-leave@ietf.org">savnet-leave@ietf.org</a> -----Original Messages----- From:song.xueyan2@zte.com.cn Send time:Tuesday, 10/22/2024 15:03:06 To:qinlc@mail.zgclab.edu.cn Cc:draft-ietf-savnet-intra-domain-problem-statement@ietf.org, <a href="mailto:savnet@ietf.org">savnet@ietf.org</a> Subject: Re: [savnet] Shepherd review of draft-ietf-savnet-intra-domain-problem-statement Hi Lancheng, Thank you for resolving my concerns. Please see my replies inline. Best regards, Xueyan From: Lancheng <a href="mailto:&lt;qinlc@mail.zgclab.edu.cn&gt;"><qinlc@mail.zgclab.edu.cn></a> To: 宋雪雁00038118; Cc: draft-ietf-savnet-intra-domain-problem-statement@ietf.org<draft-ietf-savnet-intra-domain-problem-statement@ietf.org>;savnet@ietf.org<savnet@ietf.org>; Date: 2024年10月21日 17:47 Subject: Re: [savnet] Shepherd review of draft-ietf-savnet-intra-domain-problem-statement Dear Xueyan, Thank you for shepherding this document. Please see inline. Best, Lancheng -----Original Messages----- From:song.xueyan2@zte.com.cn Send time:Friday, 10/18/2024 16:57:59 To:draft-ietf-savnet-intra-domain-problem-statement@ietf.org Cc:savnet@ietf.org Subject: [savnet] Shepherd review of draft-ietf-savnet-intra-domain-problem-statement Hi authors, WG, I am assigned to take the document shepherd of draft-ietf-savnet-intra-domain-problem-statement. As a part of shepherd's work I reviewed the latest version and here are my feedback and comments. Hopefully they could be fixed to facilitate the progress of this document. 1. Terminology There are terms like "SAV Rule" and "SAV Table", some correlationships between these terms are identified in the draft. But there is only term definition for "SAV Table" with no use in the whole text, what's the consideration here? Because the two terms are similar and may bring some misunderstanding and not been used once I would propose to delete term "SAV Table". [Lancheng:] Thanks for reminding. We (co-authors) will delete this term in Terminology Section. 2. Scope Section 6 "Intra-domain SAV Scope", I would like to propose to move this section to before "introduction" section. The scope is recommended to make reference to the charter. [Lancheng:] The current Section 6 describes the work scope of intra-domain SAV (which is a background part) and restricts that the new solutions SHOULD avoid data-plane packet modification (which is a restriction part referring to the charter). Can we move the background part into the Introduction Section and move the restriction part into the Requirement Section? I would like to learn your suggestions. [Xueyan] Good point. It's applicable to move these two aspects to introduction and requirements section separately. 3. Security For section 7, about the attacks "Compromised or misconfigured intra-domain routers will not only affect SAV, but also disrupt the whole intra-domain routing domain, which is beyond the capability of intra-domain SAV", it may be beneficial to add some description to resolve this issue, such as "SAV filtering policy is recommended to deploy on all routers which advertise or receive routes to protect the network to mitigate misconfiguration attacks." [Lancheng:] This section describes the security/trust model of intra-domain SAV. Similar to intra-domain routing protocols, intra-domain SAV does not aim to provide protection against compromised or misconfigured intra-domain routers. I agree that operational recommendations may help reduce misconfiguration, but they are relevant to the design of the solution. Therefore, we may not be able to resolve this issue in the PS document. [Xueyan] Considering the consequece from these security attacks, some additions for clarification may be necessary. My proposal: Old text: Similar to the security scope of intra-domain routing protocols,intra-domain SAV mechanisms should ensure integrity and authentication of protocol messages that deliver the required SAV information, but it is not necessary to provide protection against compromised or misconfigured intra-domain routers which poison existing control or management plane protocols. Compromised or misconfigured intra-domain routers will not only affect SAV, but also disrupt the whole intra-domain routing domain, which is beyond the capability of intra-domain SAV. New text: Similar to the security scope of intra-domain routing protocols,intra-domain SAV mechanisms should ensure integrity and authentication of protocol messages that deliver the required SAV information, and consider avoiding unintentional misconfiguration.It is not necessary to provide protection against compromised or malicious intra-domain routers which poison existing control or management plane protocols. Compromised or malicious intra-domain routers may not only affect SAV, but also disrupt the whole intra-domain routing domain. Security solutions to prevent these attacks are beyond the capability of intra-domain SAV. 4. References The normative references are all BCP type. From my perspective, except RFC2119, the other BCPs as informative references may be a reasonable choice. [Lancheng:] We will revise this section accordingly. Best regards, Xueyan </pre> </div> <div> </div> </div>  <div id="message-thread"> <ul class="thread-snippet"> <li class="depth-0"><a href="/arch/msg/savnet/0crYuhtwdb9Ejdu4b4fNzPQtqx4/">[savnet] Shepherd review of draft-ietf-savnet-int…</a>  song.xueyan2</li> <li class="depth-1"><a href="/arch/msg/savnet/dxTydgETONWawppfg4YurZeaMyc/">[savnet] Re: Shepherd review of draft-ietf-savnet…</a>  Lancheng</li> <li class="depth-2"><a href="/arch/msg/savnet/hAMzC0sy5ZyqeFGF0dgYYzKrQOQ/">[savnet] Re: Shepherd review of draft-ietf-savnet…</a>  song.xueyan2</li> <li class="depth-3"><a href="/arch/msg/savnet/lnmlpaI4hl-miTamgzZPlEjXdoE/">[savnet] Re: Shepherd review of draft-ietf-savnet…</a>  Lancheng</li> <li class="depth-3"><a href="/arch/msg/savnet/WJzeMBuSe8zfJ-dypvMusll1tgo/">[savnet] Re: Shepherd review of draft-ietf-savnet…</a>  Lancheng</li> <li class="depth-4"><a href="/arch/msg/savnet/r_mZUOZGl-A7Exr4zawdRhOo9U8/">[savnet] Re: Shepherd review of draft-ietf-savnet…</a>  song.xueyan2</li> <li class="depth-5"><a href="/arch/msg/savnet/lqD3fc199JDXLUtUxI-3dfgV8Fo/">[savnet] Re: Shepherd review of draft-ietf-savnet…</a>  song.xueyan2</li> <li class="depth-6"><a href="/arch/msg/savnet/2qduqtNrMua6ZzB0r3NeMqqP8UQ/">[savnet] Re: Shepherd review of draft-ietf-savnet…</a>  Lancheng</li> <li class="depth-6"><a href="/arch/msg/savnet/_Q2R3DBYf37zX6UtYYovyZr_mEs/">[savnet] Re: Shepherd review of draft-ietf-savnet…</a>  Joel Halpern</li> <li class="depth-6"><a href="/arch/msg/savnet/aQ_lPZCsTZphxoxgoKFodJ2q15M/">[savnet] Re: Shepherd review of draft-ietf-savnet…</a>  Lancheng</li> <li class="depth-6"><a href="/arch/msg/savnet/4HLkxzY2f6kWpmHE8Q0gN4udU_k/">[savnet] Re: Shepherd review of draft-ietf-savnet…</a>  Joel Halpern</li> <li class="depth-6 current-msg"><a href="/arch/msg/savnet/kv5nuwlUvk7gZUY4jzjk-y6I-eU/">[savnet] Re: Shepherd review of draft-ietf-savnet…</a>  Lancheng</li> </ul> </div>  <div class="d-flex justify-content-center"> <ul id="navigation" class="list-inline"> 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[savnet] Re: Shepherd review of draft-ietf-savnet-intra-domain-problem-statement