[savnet] Re: Shepherd review of draft-ietf-savnet-intra-domain-problem-statement

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href="mailto:savnet@ietf.org?subject=Re: [savnet] Re: Shepherd review of draft-ietf-savnet-intra-domain-problem-statement" class="reply-link" title="Reply"><i class="fas fa-reply fa-lg"></i></a> <a href="/arch/msg/savnet/4HLkxzY2f6kWpmHE8Q0gN4udU_k/download/" class="download-link" title="Message Download"><i class="fa fa-download fa-lg"></i></a> <a href="https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/savnet/4HLkxzY2f6kWpmHE8Q0gN4udU_k/" class="detail-link" title="Message Detail"><i class="fa fa-link fa-lg"></i></a> </div> <h3>[savnet] Re: Shepherd review of draft-ietf-savnet-intra-domain-problem-statement</h3> <p id="msg-info" class="msg-header"> <span id="msg-from" class="pipe">Joel Halpern <jmh@joelhalpern.com></span> <span id="msg-date" class="pipe">Tue, 19 November 2024 16:51 UTC</span> </p> <div id="msg-header" class="msg-header"> <p> Return-Path: <jmh@joelhalpern.com><br /> X-Original-To: savnet@ietfa.amsl.com<br /> Delivered-To: savnet@ietfa.amsl.com<br /> Received: from localhost 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<zLiZ7XHppzMB><br /> X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavis at a1.tigertech.net<br /> Received: from [192.168.20.148] (unknown [50.233.136.230]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by maila1.tigertech.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4Xt9Vg2sQ6z4TDnq; Tue, 19 Nov 2024 08:51:04 -0800 (PST)<br /> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------xIsc9eKFA1Oi31H6qK0ofSNG"<br /> Message-ID: <b1f01e7e-de39-4a1c-8062-a9b1db66b41f@joelhalpern.com><br /> Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2024 11:51:03 -0500<br /> MIME-Version: 1.0<br /> User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird<br /> To: Lancheng <qinlc@mail.zgclab.edu.cn>, Joel Halpern <jmh@joelhalpern.com><br /> References: <20241119115418352jbPpBkRuWaM2Vr-2uQr3f@zte.com.cn> <502042ab.c801.19343ad0047.Coremail.qinlc@mail.zgclab.edu.cn> <241f6fb7-99e9-412d-a8ae-25df7b2685fa@joelhalpern.com> <45df7ee2.d471.19344f2cff1.Coremail.qinlc@mail.zgclab.edu.cn><br /> Content-Language: en-US<br /> From: Joel Halpern <jmh@joelhalpern.com><br /> In-Reply-To: <45df7ee2.d471.19344f2cff1.Coremail.qinlc@mail.zgclab.edu.cn><br /> Message-ID-Hash: P7SB6M7ERRBGYXOYUIQVFDCG4FZCWT54<br /> X-Message-ID-Hash: P7SB6M7ERRBGYXOYUIQVFDCG4FZCWT54<br /> X-MailFrom: jmh@joelhalpern.com<br /> X-Mailman-Rule-Misses: dmarc-mitigation; no-senders; approved; emergency; loop; banned-address; member-moderation; nonmember-moderation; administrivia; implicit-dest; max-recipients; max-size; news-moderation; no-subject; digests; suspicious-header<br /> CC: Lancheng <qinlc=40mail.zgclab.edu.cn@dmarc.ietf.org>, song.xueyan2@zte.com.cn, draft-ietf-savnet-intra-domain-problem-statement@ietf.org, savnet@ietf.org<br /> X-Mailman-Version: 3.3.9rc6<br /> Precedence: list<br /> Subject: [savnet] Re: Shepherd review of draft-ietf-savnet-intra-domain-problem-statement<br /> List-Id: Source Address Validation in Intra-domain and Inter-domain Networks <savnet.ietf.org><br /> Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/savnet/4HLkxzY2f6kWpmHE8Q0gN4udU_k><br /> List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/savnet><br /> List-Help: <mailto:savnet-request@ietf.org?subject=help><br /> List-Owner: <mailto:savnet-owner@ietf.org><br /> List-Post: <mailto:savnet@ietf.org><br /> List-Subscribe: <mailto:savnet-join@ietf.org><br /> List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:savnet-leave@ietf.org><br /> </p> </div> <div class="msg-payload"> <pre class="wordwrap">It is largely up to you. Using either just IPv6 or both IPv4 and IPv6 are current practices. Personally, unless I think Ipv4 examples are necessary, I prefer to use just IPv6. Yours, Joel On 11/19/2024 10:03 AM, Lancheng wrote: > > Thanks. Now I understand Xueyan's suggestions. Can I just use IPv6 in > Section 3.1.1? or use IPv4 in Section 3.1.1 and use IPv6 in Section > 3.1.2? > > > Best > > Lancheng > > > > -----Original Messages----- > *From:* "Joel Halpern" <a href="mailto:&lt;jmh@joelhalpern.com&gt;"><jmh@joelhalpern.com></a> > *Send time:* Tuesday, 11/19/2024 22:52:22 > *To:* Lancheng <a href="mailto:&lt;qinlc=40mail.zgclab.edu.cn@dmarc.ietf.org&gt;"><qinlc=40mail.zgclab.edu.cn@dmarc.ietf.org></a>, > <a href="mailto:song.xueyan2@zte.com.cn">song.xueyan2@zte.com.cn</a> > *Cc:* <a href="mailto:draft-ietf-savnet-intra-domain-problem-statement@ietf.org">draft-ietf-savnet-intra-domain-problem-statement@ietf.org</a>, > <a href="mailto:savnet@ietf.org">savnet@ietf.org</a> > *Subject:* [savnet] Re: Shepherd review of > draft-ietf-savnet-intra-domain-problem-statement > > Common current IETF practice is to either provide examples only > with IPv6 or with both IPv4 and IPv6. > > Yours, > > Joel > > On 11/19/2024 4:07 AM, Lancheng wrote: >> >> Hi Xueyan, >> >> >Do you think the IPv6 addresses are in the scope of SAVNET >> inter-domain? >> >> Lancheng: Yes, both IPv4 and IPv6 are in the scope of >> intra-domain SAV. In Section 1, we say that "Validating both IPv4 >> and IPv6 addresses." >> >> >If yes, would you consider to add IPv6 examples to section 3.1.1 >> or add a new section to cover it? >> >> I do not think we need another IPv6 example/figure to describe >> the same problem of section 3.1.1, which would be redundant. Can >> I change the statement to "It owns *an IPv4 or IPv6 prefix (e.g., >> 192.0.2.0/24 [RFC6890])* and is attached to two intra-domain >> routers, i.e., Router 1 and Router 2."? >> >> Best, >> >> Lancheng >> >> >> >> >> -----Original Messages----- >> *From:* <a href="mailto:song.xueyan2@zte.com.cn">song.xueyan2@zte.com.cn</a> >> *Send time:* Tuesday, 11/19/2024 11:54:18 >> *To:* <a href="mailto:qinlc=40mail.zgclab.edu.cn@dmarc.ietf.org">qinlc=40mail.zgclab.edu.cn@dmarc.ietf.org</a> >> *Cc:* >> <a href="mailto:draft-ietf-savnet-intra-domain-problem-statement@ietf.org">draft-ietf-savnet-intra-domain-problem-statement@ietf.org</a>, >> <a href="mailto:savnet@ietf.org">savnet@ietf.org</a> >> *Subject:* [savnet] Re: Shepherd review of >> draft-ietf-savnet-intra-domain-problem-statement >> >> Hi Lancheng and authors, >> >> When checking the idnits of the document, it uses examples >> using IPv4 addresses according to RFC6890, but no examples >> using IPv6 addresses. Do you think the IPv6 addresses are in >> the scope of SAVNET inter-domain? If yes, would you consider >> to add IPv6 examples to section 3.1.1 or add a new section to >> cover it? >> >> >> Best regards, >> >> Xueyan >> >> >> Original >> *From: *宋雪雁00038118 >> *To: *Lancheng <a href="mailto:&lt;qinlc=40mail.zgclab.edu.cn@dmarc.ietf.org&gt;"><qinlc=40mail.zgclab.edu.cn@dmarc.ietf.org></a>; >> *Cc: >> <a href="mailto:*draft-ietf-savnet-intra-domain-problem-statement@ietf.org">*draft-ietf-savnet-intra-domain-problem-statement@ietf.org</a> >> <draft-ietf-savnet-intra-domain-problem-statement@ietf.org>;savnet@ietf.org >> <a href="mailto:&lt;savnet@ietf.org&gt;"><savnet@ietf.org></a>; >> *Date: *2024年11月12日 20:27 >> *Subject: **Re: [savnet] Re: Shepherd review of >> draft-ietf-savnet-intra-domain-problem-statement* >> >> Thank you Lancheng, the updated version looks good to me. >> >> I will make updates and submit the final-version for write-up >> answers. >> >> >> Best regards, >> >> Xueyan >> >> >> *From: *Lancheng <a href="mailto:&lt;qinlc=40mail.zgclab.edu.cn@dmarc.ietf.org&gt;"><qinlc=40mail.zgclab.edu.cn@dmarc.ietf.org></a> >> *To: *宋雪雁00038118; >> *Cc: >> <a href="mailto:*draft-ietf-savnet-intra-domain-problem-statement@ietf.org">*draft-ietf-savnet-intra-domain-problem-statement@ietf.org</a> >> <draft-ietf-savnet-intra-domain-problem-statement@ietf.org>;savnet@ietf.org >> <a href="mailto:&lt;savnet@ietf.org&gt;"><savnet@ietf.org></a>; >> *Date: *2024年11月11日 21:01 >> *Subject: **[savnet] Re: Shepherd review of >> draft-ietf-savnet-intra-domain-problem-statement* >> -- >> savnet mailing list -- <a href="mailto:savnet@ietf.org">savnet@ietf.org</a> >> To unsubscribe send an email to <a href="mailto:savnet-leave@ietf.org">savnet-leave@ietf.org</a> >> >> Dear Xueyan and all, >> >> >> We have updated this document according to shepherd's comments. >> >> >> Thanks, >> >> Lancheng >> >> >> Internet-Draft draft-ietf-savnet-intra-domain-problem-statement-07.txt is now available. It is a work item of the Source Address Validation in Intra-domain and Inter-domain Networks (SAVNET) WG of the IETF. Title: Source Address Validation in Intra-domain Networks Gap Analysis, Problem Statement, and Requirements Authors: Dan Li Jianping Wu Lancheng Qin Mingqing Huang Nan Geng Name: draft-ietf-savnet-intra-domain-problem-statement-07.txt Pages: 16 Dates: 2024-11-11 Abstract: This document provides the gap analysis of existing intra-domain source address validation mechanisms, describes the fundamental problems, and defines the requirements for technical improvements. The IETF datatracker status page for this Internet-Draft <a href="http://is:https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-savnet-intra-domain-problem-statement/" rel="nofollow">is:https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-savnet-intra-domain-problem-statement/</a> There is also an HTML version available <a href="http://at:https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-ietf-savnet-intra-domain-problem-statement-07.html" rel="nofollow">at:https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-ietf-savnet-intra-domain-problem-statement-07.html</a> A diff from the previous version is available <a href="http://at:https://author-tools.ietf.org/iddiff?url2=draft-ietf-savnet-intra-domain-problem-statement-07" rel="nofollow">at:https://author-tools.ietf.org/iddiff?url2=draft-ietf-savnet-intra-domain-problem-statement-07</a> Internet-Drafts are also available by rsync at: rsync.ietf.org::internet-drafts -- savnet mailing list <a href="mailto:--savnet@ietf.org">--savnet@ietf.org</a> To unsubscribe send an email <a href="mailto:tosavnet-leave@ietf.org">tosavnet-leave@ietf.org</a> >> >> >> >> >> -----Original Messages----- >> *From:* <a href="mailto:song.xueyan2@zte.com.cn">song.xueyan2@zte.com.cn</a> >> *Send time:* Tuesday, 10/22/2024 15:03:06 >> *To:* <a href="mailto:qinlc@mail.zgclab.edu.cn">qinlc@mail.zgclab.edu.cn</a> >> *Cc:* >> <a href="mailto:draft-ietf-savnet-intra-domain-problem-statement@ietf.org">draft-ietf-savnet-intra-domain-problem-statement@ietf.org</a>, >> <a href="mailto:savnet@ietf.org">savnet@ietf.org</a> >> *Subject:* Re: [savnet] Shepherd review of >> draft-ietf-savnet-intra-domain-problem-statement >> >> Hi Lancheng, >> >> Thank you for resolving my concerns. Please see my >> replies inline. >> >> >> Best regards, >> >> Xueyan >> >> >> >> *From: *Lancheng <a href="mailto:&lt;qinlc@mail.zgclab.edu.cn&gt;"><qinlc@mail.zgclab.edu.cn></a> >> *To: *宋雪雁00038118; >> *Cc: >> <a href="mailto:*draft-ietf-savnet-intra-domain-problem-statement@ietf.org">*draft-ietf-savnet-intra-domain-problem-statement@ietf.org</a> >> <draft-ietf-savnet-intra-domain-problem-statement@ietf.org>;savnet@ietf.org >> <a href="mailto:&lt;savnet@ietf.org&gt;"><savnet@ietf.org></a>; >> *Date: *2024年10月21日 17:47 >> *Subject: **Re: [savnet] Shepherd review of >> draft-ietf-savnet-intra-domain-problem-statement* >> >> Dear Xueyan, >> >> >> Thank you for shepherding this document. Please see inline. >> >> >> Best, >> >> Lancheng >> >> >> >> -----Original Messages----- >> *From:* <a href="mailto:song.xueyan2@zte.com.cn">song.xueyan2@zte.com.cn</a> >> *Send time:* Friday, 10/18/2024 16:57:59 >> *To:* >> <a href="mailto:draft-ietf-savnet-intra-domain-problem-statement@ietf.org">draft-ietf-savnet-intra-domain-problem-statement@ietf.org</a> >> *Cc:* <a href="mailto:savnet@ietf.org">savnet@ietf.org</a> >> *Subject:* [savnet] Shepherd review of >> draft-ietf-savnet-intra-domain-problem-statement >> >> Hi authors, WG, >> >> >> I am assigned to take the document shepherd of >> draft-ietf-savnet-intra-domain-problem-statement. As a >> part of shepherd's work I reviewed the latest version and >> here are my feedback and comments. Hopefully they could >> be fixed to facilitate the progress of this document. >> >> >> 1. Terminology >> >> There are terms like "SAV Rule" and "SAV Table", some >> correlationships between these terms are identified in >> the draft. But there is only term definition for "SAV >> Table" with no use in the whole text, what's the >> consideration here? Because the two terms are similar and >> may bring some misunderstanding and not been used once I >> would propose to delete term "SAV Table". >> >> [Lancheng:] Thanks for reminding. We (co-authors) will >> delete this term in Terminology Section. >> >> >> 2. Scope >> >> Section 6 "Intra-domain SAV Scope", I would like to >> propose to move this section to before "introduction" >> section. The scope is recommended to make reference to >> the charter. >> >> [Lancheng:] The current Section 6 describes the work >> scope of intra-domain SAV (which is a background part) >> and restricts that the new solutions SHOULD avoid >> data-plane packet modification (which is a restriction >> part referring to the charter). Can we move the >> background part into the Introduction Section and move >> the restriction part into the Requirement Section? I >> would like to learn your suggestions. >> >> [Xueyan] Good point. It's applicable to move these two >> aspects to introduction and requirements section separately. >> >> >> 3. Security >> >> For section 7, about the attacks "Compromised or >> misconfigured intra-domain routers will not only affect >> SAV, but also disrupt the whole intra-domain routing >> domain, which is beyond the capability of intra-domain >> SAV", it may be beneficial to add some description to >> resolve this issue, such as "SAV filtering policy is >> recommended to deploy on all routers which advertise or >> receive routes to protect the network to mitigate >> misconfiguration attacks." >> >> [Lancheng:] This section describes the security/trust >> model of intra-domain SAV. Similar to intra-domain >> routing protocols, intra-domain SAV does not aim to >> provide protection against compromised or misconfigured >> intra-domain routers. I agree that operational >> recommendations may help reduce misconfiguration, but >> they are relevant to the design of the solution. >> Therefore, we may not be able to resolve this issue in >> the PS document. >> >> [Xueyan] Considering the consequece from these security >> attacks, some additions for clarification may be >> necessary. My proposal: >> >> /*Old text:*/ >> >> /Similar to the security scope of intra-domain routing >> protocols,//intra-domain SAV mechanisms should ensure >> integrity and //authentication of protocol messages that >> deliver the required SAV //information, but it is not >> necessary to provide protection against //compromised or >> misconfigured intra-domain routers which poison >> //existing control or management plane protocols. >> Compromised or //misconfigured intra-domain routers will >> not only affect SAV, but also //disrupt the whole >> intra-domain routing domain, which is beyond the >> //capability of intra-domain SAV./ >> >> /*New text:*/ >> >> /Similar to the security scope of intra-domain routing >> protocols,intra-domain SAV mechanisms should ensure >> integrity and authentication of protocol messages that >> deliver the required SAV information, and consider >> avoiding unintentional misconfiguration.It is not >> necessary to provide protection against compromised or >> malicious intra-domain routers which poison existing >> control or management plane protocols. Compromised or >> malicious intra-domain routers may not only affect SAV, >> but also disrupt the whole intra-domain routing domain. >> Security solutions to prevent these attacks are beyond >> the capability of intra-domain SAV./ >> >> >> 4. References >> >> The normative references are all BCP type. From my >> perspective, except RFC2119, the other BCPs as >> informative references may be a reasonable choice. >> >> [Lancheng:] We will revise this section accordingly. >> >> >> Best regards, >> >> Xueyan >> >> >> >> </pre> </div> <div> </div> </div>  <div id="message-thread"> <ul class="thread-snippet"> <li class="depth-0"><a href="/arch/msg/savnet/0crYuhtwdb9Ejdu4b4fNzPQtqx4/">[savnet] Shepherd review of draft-ietf-savnet-int…</a>  song.xueyan2</li> <li class="depth-1"><a href="/arch/msg/savnet/dxTydgETONWawppfg4YurZeaMyc/">[savnet] Re: Shepherd review of draft-ietf-savnet…</a>  Lancheng</li> <li class="depth-2"><a href="/arch/msg/savnet/hAMzC0sy5ZyqeFGF0dgYYzKrQOQ/">[savnet] Re: Shepherd review of draft-ietf-savnet…</a>  song.xueyan2</li> <li class="depth-3"><a href="/arch/msg/savnet/lnmlpaI4hl-miTamgzZPlEjXdoE/">[savnet] Re: Shepherd review of draft-ietf-savnet…</a>  Lancheng</li> <li class="depth-3"><a href="/arch/msg/savnet/WJzeMBuSe8zfJ-dypvMusll1tgo/">[savnet] Re: Shepherd review of draft-ietf-savnet…</a>  Lancheng</li> <li class="depth-4"><a href="/arch/msg/savnet/r_mZUOZGl-A7Exr4zawdRhOo9U8/">[savnet] Re: Shepherd review of draft-ietf-savnet…</a>  song.xueyan2</li> <li class="depth-5"><a href="/arch/msg/savnet/lqD3fc199JDXLUtUxI-3dfgV8Fo/">[savnet] Re: Shepherd review of draft-ietf-savnet…</a>  song.xueyan2</li> <li class="depth-6"><a href="/arch/msg/savnet/2qduqtNrMua6ZzB0r3NeMqqP8UQ/">[savnet] Re: Shepherd review of draft-ietf-savnet…</a>  Lancheng</li> <li class="depth-6"><a href="/arch/msg/savnet/_Q2R3DBYf37zX6UtYYovyZr_mEs/">[savnet] Re: Shepherd review of draft-ietf-savnet…</a>  Joel Halpern</li> <li class="depth-6"><a href="/arch/msg/savnet/aQ_lPZCsTZphxoxgoKFodJ2q15M/">[savnet] Re: Shepherd review of draft-ietf-savnet…</a>  Lancheng</li> <li class="depth-6 current-msg"><a href="/arch/msg/savnet/4HLkxzY2f6kWpmHE8Q0gN4udU_k/">[savnet] Re: Shepherd review of draft-ietf-savnet…</a>  Joel Halpern</li> <li class="depth-6"><a href="/arch/msg/savnet/kv5nuwlUvk7gZUY4jzjk-y6I-eU/">[savnet] Re: Shepherd review of draft-ietf-savnet…</a>  Lancheng</li> </ul> </div>  <div class="d-flex justify-content-center"> <ul id="navigation" class="list-inline"> <li class="list-inline-item"> <a id="toggle-nav" class="toggle js-off" href="#">Hide Navigation Bar</a> </li> </ul> </div> </div>  <div class="msg-aside col-md-4"></div> </div>  <div class="btn-toolbar msg-detail-toolbar" role="toolbar" aria-label="..."> <div class="btn-group" role="group" aria-label="..."> <a class="btn btn-default" href="/arch/msg/savnet/aQ_lPZCsTZphxoxgoKFodJ2q15M/"> <i class="fa fa-chevron-left" aria-hidden="true"></i> </a> <a class="btn btn-default" href="">Date</a> <a class="btn btn-default" href="/arch/msg/savnet/kv5nuwlUvk7gZUY4jzjk-y6I-eU/"> <i class="fa fa-chevron-right" aria-hidden="true"></i> </a> </div> <div class="btn-group" role="group" aria-label="..."> <a class="btn btn-default" href="/arch/msg/savnet/aQ_lPZCsTZphxoxgoKFodJ2q15M/"> <i 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[savnet] Re: Shepherd review of draft-ietf-savnet-intra-domain-problem-statement