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href="#Comments_for_LING_1100-108_project"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">2</span> <span>Comments for LING 1100-108 project</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">1 comment</span> <ul id="toc-Comments_for_LING_1100-108_project-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-V_syllables" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1 vector-toc-list-item-expanded"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#V_syllables"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">3</span> <span>V syllables</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">2 comments</span> <ul id="toc-V_syllables-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Lontara's_origin_from_Kawi" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1 vector-toc-list-item-expanded"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Lontara's_origin_from_Kawi"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">4</span> <span>Lontara's origin from Kawi</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">3 comments</span> <ul id="toc-Lontara's_origin_from_Kawi-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-More_Ling_1100-108_comments" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1 vector-toc-list-item-expanded"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#More_Ling_1100-108_comments"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">5</span> <span>More Ling 1100-108 comments</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">1 comment</span> <ul id="toc-More_Ling_1100-108_comments-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-W_not_labial" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1 vector-toc-list-item-expanded"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#W_not_labial"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">6</span> <span>W not labial</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">5 comments</span> <ul id="toc-W_not_labial-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Incorrect_encoding_in_chart_for_vowel_/e/_(U+1A19)" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1 vector-toc-list-item-expanded"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Incorrect_encoding_in_chart_for_vowel_/e/_(U+1A19)"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">7</span> <span>Incorrect encoding in chart for vowel /e/ (U+1A19)</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">5 comments</span> <ul id="toc-Incorrect_encoding_in_chart_for_vowel_/e/_(U+1A19)-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Phonology" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1 vector-toc-list-item-expanded"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Phonology"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">8</span> <span>Phonology</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">1 comment</span> <ul id="toc-Phonology-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> 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view">Neutral point of view</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:No_original_research" title="Wikipedia:No original research">No original research</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Verifiability" title="Wikipedia:Verifiability">Verifiability</a></li></ul> </div> </div> </div> </td> </tr><tr><td style="border-top: 1px solid #c0c090; padding: 1px 3px;"><span class="plainlinks"><i>Find sources:</i> <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://www.google.com/search?as_eq=wikipedia&q=%22Lontara+script%22">Google</a> (<a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://www.google.com/search?tbs=bks:1&q=%22Lontara+script%22+-wikipedia">books</a> <b>·</b> <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://www.google.com/search?tbm=nws&q=%22Lontara+script%22+-wikipedia&tbs=ar:1">news</a> <b>·</b> <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=%22Lontara+script%22">scholar</a> <b>·</b> <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" 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innercollapse wpb wpb-table"><tbody><tr class="wpb-header"><td class="wpb-header-icon"><span typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Flag_of_Indonesia.svg" class="mw-file-description"><img alt="WikiProject icon" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/9f/Flag_of_Indonesia.svg/35px-Flag_of_Indonesia.svg.png" decoding="async" width="35" height="23" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/9f/Flag_of_Indonesia.svg/53px-Flag_of_Indonesia.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/9f/Flag_of_Indonesia.svg/70px-Flag_of_Indonesia.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="900" data-file-height="600"/></a></span></td><td class="wpb-header-combined"><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Indonesia" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Indonesia">Indonesia</a> <span class="wpb-header-bubbles import-low">Low‑importance</span></td></tr><tr><td class="mbox-text wpb-main" colspan="2"><table><tbody><tr><td class="mbox-image wpb-image"><span 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srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/9f/Flag_of_Indonesia.svg/48px-Flag_of_Indonesia.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/9f/Flag_of_Indonesia.svg/64px-Flag_of_Indonesia.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="900" data-file-height="600"/></span></span></span><span class="portalbox-link"><a href="/wiki/Portal:Indonesia" title="Portal:Indonesia">Indonesia portal</a></span></li></ul>This article is within the scope of <b><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Indonesia" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Indonesia">WikiProject Indonesia</a></b>, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of <a href="/wiki/Indonesia" title="Indonesia">Indonesia</a> and <a href="/wiki/Category:Indonesia" title="Category:Indonesia">Indonesia-related</a> topics on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Indonesia" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Indonesia">the discussion</a> and see a list of open tasks.<span class="metadata wpb-metadata"><span class="wpb-project">Indonesia</span><span class="wpb-project_link">Wikipedia:WikiProject Indonesia</span><span class="wpb-banner_name">Template:WikiProject Indonesia</span><span class="wpb-assessment_cat">Indonesia articles</span></span></td><td class="mbox-empty-cell"></td></tr><tr><td class="assess import-low"><a href="/wiki/Category:Low-importance_Indonesia_articles" title="Category:Low-importance Indonesia articles">Low</a></td><td class="mbox-text" colspan="2">This article has been rated as <b>Low-importance</b> on the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Indonesia/Assessment#Importance_scale" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Indonesia/Assessment">project's importance scale</a>.</td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr></tbody></table> <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1237879475"><link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1256394742"><table class="tmbox tmbox-notice mw-collapsible innercollapse wpb wpb-table"><tbody><tr class="wpb-header"><td class="wpb-header-icon"><span typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:%E6%9B%B8.svg" class="mw-file-description"><img alt="WikiProject icon" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/86/%E6%9B%B8.svg/25px-%E6%9B%B8.svg.png" decoding="async" width="25" height="25" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/86/%E6%9B%B8.svg/38px-%E6%9B%B8.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/86/%E6%9B%B8.svg/50px-%E6%9B%B8.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="512" data-file-height="512"/></a></span></td><td class="wpb-header-combined"><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Writing_systems" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Writing systems">Writing systems</a> <span class="wpb-header-bubbles import-high">High‑importance</span></td></tr><tr><td class="mbox-text wpb-main" colspan="2"><table><tbody><tr><td class="mbox-image wpb-image"><span typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:%E6%9B%B8.svg" class="mw-file-description"><img alt="WikiProject icon" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/86/%E6%9B%B8.svg/80px-%E6%9B%B8.svg.png" decoding="async" width="80" height="80" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/86/%E6%9B%B8.svg/120px-%E6%9B%B8.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/86/%E6%9B%B8.svg/160px-%E6%9B%B8.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="512" data-file-height="512"/></a></span></td><td class="mbox-text"><link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1239009302"><ul role="navigation" aria-label="Portals" class="noprint portalbox portalborder portalright"> <li class="portalbox-entry"><span class="portalbox-image"><span class="noviewer" typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Nuvola_apps_kmessedwords.png" class="mw-file-description"><img alt="icon" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/9a/Nuvola_apps_kmessedwords.png/28px-Nuvola_apps_kmessedwords.png" decoding="async" width="28" height="28" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/9a/Nuvola_apps_kmessedwords.png/42px-Nuvola_apps_kmessedwords.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/9a/Nuvola_apps_kmessedwords.png/56px-Nuvola_apps_kmessedwords.png 2x" data-file-width="128" data-file-height="128"/></a></span></span><span class="portalbox-link"><a href="/wiki/Portal:Writing" title="Portal:Writing">Writing portal</a></span></li></ul>This article falls within the scope of <b><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Writing_systems" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Writing systems">WikiProject Writing systems</a></b>, a <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject">WikiProject</a> interested in improving the encyclopaedic coverage and content of articles relating to <a href="/wiki/Writing_system" title="Writing system">writing systems</a> on Wikipedia. If you would like to help out, you are welcome to drop by <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Writing_systems" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Writing systems">the project page</a> and/or leave a query at <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Writing_systems" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Writing systems">the project’s talk page</a>.<span class="metadata wpb-metadata"><span class="wpb-project">Writing systems</span><span class="wpb-project_link">Wikipedia:WikiProject Writing systems</span><span class="wpb-banner_name">Template:WikiProject Writing systems</span><span class="wpb-assessment_cat">Writing system articles</span></span></td><td class="mbox-empty-cell"></td></tr><tr><td class="assess import-high"><a href="/wiki/Category:High-importance_Writing_system_articles" title="Category:High-importance Writing system articles">High</a></td><td class="mbox-text" colspan="2">This article has been rated as <b>High-importance</b> on the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Writing_systems/Assessment#Importance_scale" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Writing systems/Assessment">project's importance scale</a>.</td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr></tbody></table> <meta property="mw:PageProp/toc"/> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="comments" data-mw-thread-id="h-comments-2008-11-06T01:58:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-comments-2008-11-06T01:58:00.000Z"></span>comments<span data-mw-comment-end="h-comments-2008-11-06T01:58:00.000Z"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Talk:Lontara_script&action=edit&section=1" title="Edit section: comments"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Bob0513-2008-11-06T01:58:00.000Z-comments"></span>I added the sections 'Structure' and 'Usage' as well as some minor edits throughout the article. Feedback is appreciated. <a href="/wiki/User:Bob0513" title="User:Bob0513">Bob0513</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Bob0513" title="User talk:Bob0513">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Lontara_script#c-Bob0513-2008-11-06T01:58:00.000Z-comments" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:58, 6 November 2008 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Bob0513-2008-11-06T01:58:00.000Z-comments"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Bob0513-2008-11-06T01:58:00.000Z-comments"></span> <br/><br/><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Bob0513-2008-12-04T06:30:00.000Z-comments"></span> I forgot to log in, IP#128.84.73.128 is me. I added a much longer sample text, as well as did some minor edits throughout the page, such as adding info on the pallawa punctuation character. <a href="/wiki/User:Bob0513" title="User:Bob0513">Bob0513</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Bob0513" title="User talk:Bob0513">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Lontara_script#c-Bob0513-2008-12-04T06:30:00.000Z-comments" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">06:30, 4 December 2008 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Bob0513-2008-12-04T06:30:00.000Z-comments"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Bob0513-2008-12-04T06:30:00.000Z-comments"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-109.193.161.69-2011-09-10T17:14:00.000Z-Bob0513-2008-12-04T06:30:00.000Z"></span>Hi, you should never force special fonts like here <div style="font-family:Saweri,'MPH 2B Damase',Code2000,sans-serif"> – different fonts in the same text do not look good. The browser is perfectly able to render Lontara glyphs if there is <i>one</i> font installed in the system which knows them. If there is no such font on the visitor’s computer, even forcing a font does not help. --<a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/109.193.161.69" title="Special:Contributions/109.193.161.69">109.193.161.69</a> (<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:109.193.161.69&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User talk:109.193.161.69 (page does not exist)">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Lontara_script#c-109.193.161.69-2011-09-10T17:14:00.000Z-Bob0513-2008-12-04T06:30:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:14, 10 September 2011 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-109.193.161.69-2011-09-10T17:14:00.000Z-Bob0513-2008-12-04T06:30:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-109.193.161.69-2011-09-10T17:14:00.000Z-Bob0513-2008-12-04T06:30:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Comments_for_LING_1100-108_project" data-mw-thread-id="h-Comments_for_LING_1100-108_project-2008-11-20T01:00:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Comments_for_LING_1100-108_project-2008-11-20T01:00:00.000Z"></span>Comments for LING 1100-108 project<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Comments_for_LING_1100-108_project-2008-11-20T01:00:00.000Z"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Talk:Lontara_script&action=edit&section=2" title="Edit section: Comments for LING 1100-108 project"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Mmg86-2008-11-20T01:00:00.000Z-Comments_for_LING_1100-108_project"></span>Great information on structure and usage, as well as the derivation of the name of the language. I also thought it was interesting that there is no marker for gemination, which seems to make the language kind of ambiguous.<br/> Suggestion for possible additional editing: add more about the origin and development of the writing system. Also, what other ancient languages does it relate to (others with the inherent "a" vowel)? <a href="/wiki/User:Mmg86" title="User:Mmg86">Mmg86</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Mmg86" title="User talk:Mmg86">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Lontara_script#c-Mmg86-2008-11-20T01:00:00.000Z-Comments_for_LING_1100-108_project" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:00, 20 November 2008 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Mmg86-2008-11-20T01:00:00.000Z-Comments_for_LING_1100-108_project"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Mmg86-2008-11-20T01:00:00.000Z-Comments_for_LING_1100-108_project"></span> </p><p><br/> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="V_syllables" data-mw-thread-id="h-V_syllables-2008-11-06T02:09:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-V_syllables-2008-11-06T02:09:00.000Z"></span>V syllables<span data-mw-comment-end="h-V_syllables-2008-11-06T02:09:00.000Z"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Talk:Lontara_script&action=edit&section=3" title="Edit section: V syllables"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Bob0513-2008-11-06T02:09:00.000Z-V_syllables"></span>Regarding undo's, independant vowels only can be used in the initial position. Refer to George Campbell's <u>Compendium of the World's Language</u> <a href="/wiki/User:Bob0513" title="User:Bob0513">Bob0513</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Bob0513" title="User talk:Bob0513">talk</a>) <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">—Preceding <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Signatures" title="Wikipedia:Signatures">undated</a> comment was added at <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Lontara_script#c-Bob0513-2008-11-06T02:09:00.000Z-V_syllables" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:09, 6 November 2008 (UTC)</a>.</span><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Bob0513-2008-11-06T02:09:00.000Z-V_syllables"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Bob0513-2008-11-06T02:09:00.000Z-V_syllables"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Kwamikagami-2008-11-06T06:26:00.000Z-Bob0513-2008-11-06T02:09:00.000Z"></span>Campbell discusses languages, and only gives the briefest coverage of scripts. The data here, from Daniels & Bright, contradicts that claim: ᨙᨔᨕᨘᨓ <i>seuwa</i> and ᨆᨀᨘᨋᨕᨗ <i>makunrai</i> both have internal ᨕ. <a href="/wiki/User:Kwamikagami" title="User:Kwamikagami">kwami</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Kwamikagami" title="User talk:Kwamikagami">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Lontara_script#c-Kwamikagami-2008-11-06T06:26:00.000Z-Bob0513-2008-11-06T02:09:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">06:26, 6 November 2008 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Kwamikagami-2008-11-06T06:26:00.000Z-Bob0513-2008-11-06T02:09:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Kwamikagami-2008-11-06T06:26:00.000Z-Bob0513-2008-11-06T02:09:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Lontara's_origin_from_Kawi" data-mw-thread-id="h-Lontara's_origin_from_Kawi-2008-11-07T04:34:00.000Z"><span id="Lontara.27s_origin_from_Kawi"></span><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Lontara's_origin_from_Kawi-2008-11-07T04:34:00.000Z"></span>Lontara's origin from Kawi<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Lontara's_origin_from_Kawi-2008-11-07T04:34:00.000Z"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Talk:Lontara_script&action=edit&section=4" title="Edit section: Lontara's origin from Kawi"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Kurniasan-2008-11-07T04:34:00.000Z-Lontara's_origin_from_Kawi"></span>Is there any reliable source regarding this? I've been wondering, is it true that the script based on Kawi or Brahmic since the Bugis religion before Islam is Animism. As far as I know, <a href="/wiki/Sureq_Galigo" class="mw-redirect" title="Sureq Galigo">Sureq Galigo</a> didn't mentioned anything about Hinduism (they have their own story how the world been created), and I may be wrong. Based on <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="http://www.everyculture.com/East-Southeast-Asia/Bugis-Religion-and-Expressive-Culture.html">this site</a>, some group of Bugis still practive believes based on <i>lontara</i> (not the script but the manuscript). So, I think the script being originate from Kawi script or Brahmic family is still not a fact. <a href="/wiki/User:Kurniasan" title="User:Kurniasan">Kurniasan</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Kurniasan" title="User talk:Kurniasan">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Lontara_script#c-Kurniasan-2008-11-07T04:34:00.000Z-Lontara's_origin_from_Kawi" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">04:34, 7 November 2008 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Kurniasan-2008-11-07T04:34:00.000Z-Lontara's_origin_from_Kawi"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Kurniasan-2008-11-07T04:34:00.000Z-Lontara's_origin_from_Kawi"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Matahari_Pagi-2010-02-27T03:41:00.000Z-Kurniasan-2008-11-07T04:34:00.000Z"></span>I don't know about Lontara being derived from Kawi, but it is incorrect to say that Hinduism and Buddhism never touched South Sulawesi. I can see that you're a Malaysian, so it's understandable. I'd expect Indonesians (especially the ones from South Sulawesi) to know that there have been influences of Brahmic religions prior to the coming of Islam. We have important artefacts such as the bronze Buddha statue, the name of the forefather of Gowa kingdom was "Batara Guru", and even the story you mentioned borrowed a lot of Hindu concepts. But yes, animism was stronger in Celebes than it was in Java, and later on, Islam was even stronger (it still is) that it's a bit difficult to see the traces of Hindu and Buddhist civilization in the area. <a href="/wiki/User:Matahari_Pagi" title="User:Matahari Pagi">Matahari Pagi</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Matahari_Pagi" title="User talk:Matahari Pagi">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Lontara_script#c-Matahari_Pagi-2010-02-27T03:41:00.000Z-Kurniasan-2008-11-07T04:34:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">03:41, 27 February 2010 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Matahari_Pagi-2010-02-27T03:41:00.000Z-Kurniasan-2008-11-07T04:34:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Matahari_Pagi-2010-02-27T03:41:00.000Z-Kurniasan-2008-11-07T04:34:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Alteaven-2013-06-02T11:32:00.000Z-Matahari_Pagi-2010-02-27T03:41:00.000Z"></span>I think the usage and development of Buginese script is not of religious doing, but of politics. In it's greatest extent, the Majapahit kingdom includes parts of Sulawesi. Majapahit was Hindu and used either Pallava or Kawi script for recording various official documents (not just religious). Difference between the two script are often blurry when I search it, as Kawi are just later development of Pallava with shape tweaks that can vary wildly from one inscriptions to another. So Buginese script are very likely to be based in Pallava or Kawi, but it got little to do with Animism, Hindu or Islam. It simply reached Sulawesi because of Majapahit kingdom's political extend. <a href="/wiki/User:Alteaven" title="User:Alteaven">Alteaven</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Alteaven" title="User talk:Alteaven">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Lontara_script#c-Alteaven-2013-06-02T11:32:00.000Z-Matahari_Pagi-2010-02-27T03:41:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">11:32, 2 June 2013 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Alteaven-2013-06-02T11:32:00.000Z-Matahari_Pagi-2010-02-27T03:41:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Alteaven-2013-06-02T11:32:00.000Z-Matahari_Pagi-2010-02-27T03:41:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="More_Ling_1100-108_comments" data-mw-thread-id="h-More_Ling_1100-108_comments-2008-11-20T01:42:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-More_Ling_1100-108_comments-2008-11-20T01:42:00.000Z"></span>More Ling 1100-108 comments<span data-mw-comment-end="h-More_Ling_1100-108_comments-2008-11-20T01:42:00.000Z"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Talk:Lontara_script&action=edit&section=5" title="Edit section: More Ling 1100-108 comments"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Rda2512-2008-11-20T01:42:00.000Z-More_Ling_1100-108_comments"></span>Greetings! I agree with Madison. I thought that the organization into "usage" and "structure" and I'm actually strongly considering doing that for my own. </p><p>I was just a little confused in the usage section, however, where you start talking about how the script is still used in Bugis ceremonies. How is the script itself used in ceremonies? Do you use the script to make the wedding invitations? What did this mean? Along the same lines, I also think that the information regarding the evolution of the script needs to be expanded. If there isn't more information on how it developed (such as to which script family it belongs or some specific intricacies regarding its structure development), then that's okay, but the article hardly delves into it. This can go in "Usage" or maybe a separate "History" section. </p><p>Another suggestion is to cite some sources in your "Usage" section. Which of the sources did that information come from? </p><p>That's all! Otherwise, good job! --<a href="/wiki/User:Rda2512" title="User:Rda2512">Rda2512</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Rda2512" title="User talk:Rda2512">talk</a>) 01:42, 20 November 2008 (UTC) <a href="/wiki/User:Rda2512" title="User:Rda2512">Rda2512</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Rda2512" title="User talk:Rda2512">talk</a> • <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Rda2512" title="Special:Contributions/Rda2512">contribs</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Lontara_script#c-Rda2512-2008-11-20T01:42:00.000Z-More_Ling_1100-108_comments" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:37, 20 November 2008 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Rda2512-2008-11-20T01:42:00.000Z-More_Ling_1100-108_comments"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Rda2512-2008-11-20T01:42:00.000Z-More_Ling_1100-108_comments"></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="W_not_labial" data-mw-thread-id="h-W_not_labial-2010-07-01T15:37:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-W_not_labial-2010-07-01T15:37:00.000Z"></span>W not labial<span data-mw-comment-end="h-W_not_labial-2010-07-01T15:37:00.000Z"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Talk:Lontara_script&action=edit&section=6" title="Edit section: W not labial"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-LokiClock-2010-07-01T15:37:00.000Z-W_not_labial"></span>W does not represent the <a href="/wiki/Bilabial_approximant" class="mw-redirect" title="Bilabial approximant">bilabial approximant</a> in the IPA. If the sound is indeed <span class="IPA nowrap" lang="und-fonipa" title="Representation in the International Phonetic Alphabet (IPA)">[<a href="/wiki/Voiced_labial%E2%80%93velar_approximant" title="Voiced labial–velar approximant">w</a>]</span>, it should be recategorized as velar. ᛭ <a href="/wiki/User:LokiClock" title="User:LokiClock">LokiClock</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:LokiClock" title="User talk:LokiClock">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Lontara_script#c-LokiClock-2010-07-01T15:37:00.000Z-W_not_labial" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:37, 1 July 2010 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-LokiClock-2010-07-01T15:37:00.000Z-W_not_labial"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-LokiClock-2010-07-01T15:37:00.000Z-W_not_labial"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Kwamikagami-2010-07-01T20:54:00.000Z-LokiClock-2010-07-01T15:37:00.000Z"></span>It's both. People don't generally bother with creating a separate column just for [w], but will place it with [kw], [gw], [xw] if they have a column. — <a href="/wiki/User:Kwamikagami" title="User:Kwamikagami">kwami</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Kwamikagami" title="User talk:Kwamikagami">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Lontara_script#c-Kwamikagami-2010-07-01T20:54:00.000Z-LokiClock-2010-07-01T15:37:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:54, 1 July 2010 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Kwamikagami-2010-07-01T20:54:00.000Z-LokiClock-2010-07-01T15:37:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Kwamikagami-2010-07-01T20:54:00.000Z-LokiClock-2010-07-01T15:37:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-LokiClock-2010-07-08T06:27:00.000Z-Kwamikagami-2010-07-01T20:54:00.000Z"></span>Okay. I reviewed IPA classification of coarticulated sounds, which affirms this usage. What's the connection with [kw], [gw], [xw]? Are those <a href="/wiki/Allophone" title="Allophone">allophonic</a> alternations of [w]? ᛭ <a href="/wiki/User:LokiClock" title="User:LokiClock">LokiClock</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:LokiClock" title="User talk:LokiClock">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Lontara_script#c-LokiClock-2010-07-08T06:27:00.000Z-Kwamikagami-2010-07-01T20:54:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">06:27, 8 July 2010 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-LokiClock-2010-07-08T06:27:00.000Z-Kwamikagami-2010-07-01T20:54:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-LokiClock-2010-07-08T06:27:00.000Z-Kwamikagami-2010-07-01T20:54:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Kwamikagami-2010-07-08T08:39:00.000Z-LokiClock-2010-07-08T06:27:00.000Z"></span>No, they're all just articulated the same way, just as [p], [b], [m] are. — <a href="/wiki/User:Kwamikagami" title="User:Kwamikagami">kwami</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Kwamikagami" title="User talk:Kwamikagami">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Lontara_script#c-Kwamikagami-2010-07-08T08:39:00.000Z-LokiClock-2010-07-08T06:27:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">08:39, 8 July 2010 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Kwamikagami-2010-07-08T08:39:00.000Z-LokiClock-2010-07-08T06:27:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Kwamikagami-2010-07-08T08:39:00.000Z-LokiClock-2010-07-08T06:27:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-LokiClock-2010-07-08T12:24:00.000Z-Kwamikagami-2010-07-08T08:39:00.000Z"></span>They are not articulated the same way. They have the same <a href="/wiki/Place_of_articulation" title="Place of articulation">place of articulation</a>, but not the same <a href="/wiki/Manner_of_articulation" title="Manner of articulation">manner of articulation</a>. ᛭ <a href="/wiki/User:LokiClock" title="User:LokiClock">LokiClock</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:LokiClock" title="User talk:LokiClock">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Lontara_script#c-LokiClock-2010-07-08T12:24:00.000Z-Kwamikagami-2010-07-08T08:39:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">12:24, 8 July 2010 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-LokiClock-2010-07-08T12:24:00.000Z-Kwamikagami-2010-07-08T08:39:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-LokiClock-2010-07-08T12:24:00.000Z-Kwamikagami-2010-07-08T08:39:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Incorrect_encoding_in_chart_for_vowel_/e/_(U+1A19)" data-mw-thread-id="h-Incorrect_encoding_in_chart_for_vowel_/e/_(U+1A19)-2011-07-23T15:15:00.000Z"><span id="Incorrect_encoding_in_chart_for_vowel_.2Fe.2F_.28U.2B1A19.29"></span><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Incorrect_encoding_in_chart_for_vowel_/e/_(U+1A19)-2011-07-23T15:15:00.000Z"></span>Incorrect encoding in chart for vowel /e/ (U+1A19)<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Incorrect_encoding_in_chart_for_vowel_/e/_(U+1A19)-2011-07-23T15:15:00.000Z"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Talk:Lontara_script&action=edit&section=7" title="Edit section: Incorrect encoding in chart for vowel /e/ (U+1A19)"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Verdy_p-2011-07-23T15:15:00.000Z-Incorrect_encoding_in_chart_for_vowel_/e/_(U+1A19)"></span>The chart incorrectly encodes the vowel /e/ (U+1A19) before the base consonnant on which it applies. Unicode clearly says that the diacritic vowel must be encoded after the base consonnant, even if it visually appears on the left of the base consonnant. I corrected the chart to exhibit the expected logical encoding order (even if it displays wrong for now on most platforms, and that's why I also added a note at the bottom of the table, and then created the next sub-section about support of the script in Unicode applications). </p><p>There's no logical-order exception defined for this preposed vowel in the Lontara/Buginese script (unlike in the Thai, Lao, and Tai Viet scripts, that are encoded using the visual order). </p><p>May be you have drawn this chart using a font like "Saweri" or "MPH 2B Damase", but these fonts are incorrect (not conforming to Unicode) about the placement of this vowel, if they are used with a TrueType-only implementation for text rendering, or with an OpenType implementation that does not recognize the script and implements at least its mandatory glyph reordering (OpenType renderers on Windows, MAcOSX and Linux still don't implement it in their text shaping/layout engine, only MacOSX can support the script but only if using OpenType fonts containing AAT layout tables, which are specific to the MacOSX platform and ignored on other platforms). Note that I also don't know if the script can be supported in other platforms, using TrueType fonts containing SIL Graphite feature tables, rather than OpenType feature tables, and a Graphite-enabled application (such as OpenOffice), and I also don't know if such TrueType font with Graphite features exists for now (it does not seem to be the case). </p><p>Still, you should not encode the vowel blindly before the consonnant because it breaks the analysis of grapheme cluster boundaries, (in the chart, the vowel currently appears combined with the previous space; this should not occur, because the vowel may also occur in the middle of a word and must be correctly ordered). </p><p>A temporary workaround is possible, but it requires encoding the vowel E as a separate letter in isolation, using a non-breaking space to hold it. But this has caveats, notably because it breaks the logical ordering of words, and does not warranty that the letter shown in isolation this way will not have spacing on both sides, increasing the normal side-bearings (unless the TrueType or OpenType font contains a special kerning or positioning pair for the space glyph followed by the spacing glyph of the diacritic vowel, to properly adjust the width and placement of the combination; but for now, no TrueType or OpenType font contain such kerning pair, despite of the fact that the Unicode standard specifies that all diacritics should be properly shown in isolation by encoding it after a space (either U+0020 for the usual space or the stronlgly recommanded non-breaking space U+00A0). </p><p>This issue is in fact <b>not</b> specific to the Buginese script, but occurs with any Brahmic script that uses prepended diacritics (for example the Devanagari script, also for a vowel, requires reordering support in the text layout/shaping engine itself rather than within tweaked tables in TrueType/OpenType fonts; all other solutions are not portable and will break the Unicode conformance for correctly supporting the script). </p><p><a href="/wiki/User:Verdy_p" title="User:Verdy p">verdy_p</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Verdy_p" title="User talk:Verdy p">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Lontara_script#c-Verdy_p-2011-07-23T15:15:00.000Z-Incorrect_encoding_in_chart_for_vowel_/e/_(U+1A19)" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:15, 23 July 2011 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Verdy_p-2011-07-23T15:15:00.000Z-Incorrect_encoding_in_chart_for_vowel_/e/_(U+1A19)"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Verdy_p-2011-07-23T15:15:00.000Z-Incorrect_encoding_in_chart_for_vowel_/e/_(U+1A19)"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Alteaven-2013-06-02T11:48:00.000Z-Verdy_p-2011-07-23T15:15:00.000Z"></span>I think parts describing the rendering of vowel /e/ is too exhaustive. By comparison, pages of other native Indonesian writing system (which also render vowel /e/ before consonants) such as Javanese and Balinese, do not go to such extend explaining this fact. Maybe it should be simplified into "Vowel e is written preceding a consonant, which may cause rendering error in unsupported fonts. These can be solved by...". Something like that, perhaps. <a href="/wiki/User:Alteaven" title="User:Alteaven">Alteaven</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Alteaven" title="User talk:Alteaven">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Lontara_script#c-Alteaven-2013-06-02T11:48:00.000Z-Verdy_p-2011-07-23T15:15:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">11:48, 2 June 2013 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Alteaven-2013-06-02T11:48:00.000Z-Verdy_p-2011-07-23T15:15:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Alteaven-2013-06-02T11:48:00.000Z-Verdy_p-2011-07-23T15:15:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Yahya_Abdal-Aziz-2022-05-08T04:40:00.000Z-Incorrect_encoding_in_chart_for_vowel_/e/_(U+1A19)"></span>I agree with <a href="/wiki/User:Alteaven" title="User:Alteaven">Alteaven</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Alteaven" title="User talk:Alteaven">talk</a> <b>·</b> <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Alteaven" title="Special:Contributions/Alteaven">contribs</a>), and also wonder whether the <a href="/wiki/Lontara_script#Rendering_issues" title="Lontara script">§ Rendering issues</a> might not be <sup class="noprint Inline-Template" style="white-space:nowrap;">[<i><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:No_original_research" title="Wikipedia:No original research"><span title="The material near this tag possibly contains original research.">original research?</span></a></i>]</sup>? </p> <pre><a href="/wiki/User:Yahya_Abdal-Aziz" title="User:Yahya Abdal-Aziz">yoyo</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Yahya_Abdal-Aziz" title="User talk:Yahya Abdal-Aziz">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Lontara_script#c-Yahya_Abdal-Aziz-2022-05-08T04:40:00.000Z-Incorrect_encoding_in_chart_for_vowel_/e/_(U+1A19)" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">04:40, 8 May 2022 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Yahya_Abdal-Aziz-2022-05-08T04:40:00.000Z-Incorrect_encoding_in_chart_for_vowel_/e/_(U+1A19)"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Yahya_Abdal-Aziz-2022-05-08T04:40:00.000Z-Incorrect_encoding_in_chart_for_vowel_/e/_(U+1A19)"></span> </pre> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Yahya_Abdal-Aziz-2022-05-08T04:43:00.000Z-Incorrect_encoding_in_chart_for_vowel_/e/_(U+1A19)"></span>I meant <a href="/wiki/User:Alteaven" title="User:Alteaven">Alteaven</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Alteaven" title="User talk:Alteaven">talk</a> <b>·</b> <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Alteaven" title="Special:Contributions/Alteaven">contribs</a>) but couldn't preview before publishing! 😞 <a href="/wiki/User:Yahya_Abdal-Aziz" title="User:Yahya Abdal-Aziz">yoyo</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Yahya_Abdal-Aziz" title="User talk:Yahya Abdal-Aziz">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Lontara_script#c-Yahya_Abdal-Aziz-2022-05-08T04:43:00.000Z-Incorrect_encoding_in_chart_for_vowel_/e/_(U+1A19)" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">04:43, 8 May 2022 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Yahya_Abdal-Aziz-2022-05-08T04:43:00.000Z-Incorrect_encoding_in_chart_for_vowel_/e/_(U+1A19)"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Yahya_Abdal-Aziz-2022-05-08T04:43:00.000Z-Incorrect_encoding_in_chart_for_vowel_/e/_(U+1A19)"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span class="template-ping"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Austronesier-2022-05-08T07:47:00.000Z-Yahya_Abdal-Aziz-2022-05-08T04:43:00.000Z"></span>@<a href="/wiki/User:Yahya_Abdal-Aziz" title="User:Yahya Abdal-Aziz">Yahya Abdal-Aziz</a>:</span> Agree. The section "Form" is about the inherent characteristics of the script; rendering issues are just an artefact of digital processing. I'm not sure if all of <a href="/wiki/Lontara_script#Rendering_issues" title="Lontara script">§ Rendering issues</a> is OR or maybe just badly undersourced. I wouldn't miss it if thrown out completely. –<a href="/wiki/User:Austronesier" title="User:Austronesier">Austronesier</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Austronesier" title="User talk:Austronesier">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Lontara_script#c-Austronesier-2022-05-08T07:47:00.000Z-Yahya_Abdal-Aziz-2022-05-08T04:43:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">07:47, 8 May 2022 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Austronesier-2022-05-08T07:47:00.000Z-Yahya_Abdal-Aziz-2022-05-08T04:43:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Austronesier-2022-05-08T07:47:00.000Z-Yahya_Abdal-Aziz-2022-05-08T04:43:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Phonology" data-mw-thread-id="h-Phonology-2012-06-19T15:20:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Phonology-2012-06-19T15:20:00.000Z"></span>Phonology<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Phonology-2012-06-19T15:20:00.000Z"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Talk:Lontara_script&action=edit&section=8" title="Edit section: Phonology"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Kurniasan-2012-06-19T15:20:00.000Z-Phonology"></span>I moved the Phonology section into the <a href="/wiki/Buginese_language" title="Buginese language">Buginese language</a> article since it seems to be more suitable there. --<a href="/wiki/User:Kurniasan" title="User:Kurniasan">Kurniasan</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Kurniasan" title="User talk:Kurniasan">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Lontara_script#c-Kurniasan-2012-06-19T15:20:00.000Z-Phonology" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:20, 19 June 2012 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Kurniasan-2012-06-19T15:20:00.000Z-Phonology"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Kurniasan-2012-06-19T15:20:00.000Z-Phonology"></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Interesting_fact_but_where's_the_reference?" data-mw-thread-id="h-Interesting_fact_but_where's_the_reference?-2012-07-14T16:08:00.000Z"><span id="Interesting_fact_but_where.27s_the_reference.3F"></span><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Interesting_fact_but_where's_the_reference?-2012-07-14T16:08:00.000Z"></span>Interesting fact but where's the reference?<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Interesting_fact_but_where's_the_reference?-2012-07-14T16:08:00.000Z"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Talk:Lontara_script&action=edit&section=9" title="Edit section: Interesting fact but where's the reference?"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-180.194.240.1-2012-07-14T16:08:00.000Z-Interesting_fact_but_where's_the_reference?"></span>I am interested in finding out what the reference was for the following statement I read in the wiki entry on the Buginese Language which perhaps should be included in this entry on the Lontara alphabet: </p><p>"Older texts, however, usually did not use diacritics at all, and readers were expected to identify words from context and thus provide the correct pronunciation. As one might expect, this led to erroneous readings; for example, bolo could be misread as bala by new readers." </p><p>Could anyone help in finding a source or reference? <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">— Preceding <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Signatures" title="Wikipedia:Signatures">unsigned</a> comment added by <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/180.194.240.1" title="Special:Contributions/180.194.240.1">180.194.240.1</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:180.194.240.1" title="User talk:180.194.240.1">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Lontara_script#c-180.194.240.1-2012-07-14T16:08:00.000Z-Interesting_fact_but_where's_the_reference?" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:08, 14 July 2012 (UTC)</a></span><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-180.194.240.1-2012-07-14T16:08:00.000Z-Interesting_fact_but_where's_the_reference?"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-180.194.240.1-2012-07-14T16:08:00.000Z-Interesting_fact_but_where's_the_reference?"></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Name_of_Article" data-mw-thread-id="h-Name_of_Article-2013-06-02T22:28:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Name_of_Article-2013-06-02T22:28:00.000Z"></span>Name of Article<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Name_of_Article-2013-06-02T22:28:00.000Z"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Talk:Lontara_script&action=edit&section=10" title="Edit section: Name of Article"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Alteaven-2013-06-02T22:28:00.000Z-Name_of_Article"></span>Buginese is not an alphabet, but an abugida. Although it's a common misconception, it shouldn't be the tittle as it is misleading. <a href="/wiki/User:Alteaven" title="User:Alteaven">Alteaven</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Alteaven" title="User talk:Alteaven">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Lontara_script#c-Alteaven-2013-06-02T22:28:00.000Z-Name_of_Article" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:28, 2 June 2013 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Alteaven-2013-06-02T22:28:00.000Z-Name_of_Article"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Alteaven-2013-06-02T22:28:00.000Z-Name_of_Article"></span> </p><p><br/><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Kiwehtin-2014-06-21T20:08:00.000Z-Name_of_Article"></span> About the image with this caption: </p><p>"Sample of a handwritten book, written in Makassarese language with the Lontara script, of a diary of the Princes of Gowa. The palláwa punctuation signs, typical of this script, are drawn and colored in red, as well as a few proper names and some inserts in Arabic." </p><p>I should point out that the text in the illustrated pages is not typical lontara', but jangang-jangang script. Since JJ was only used to write Makassarese, it would be more appropriate to use the Makassarese term for the divider, which is 'passimbang' and not 'pallawa', as in Bugis. The illustration comes from the manuscript generally referred to (to myself and other colleagues working in the field) by its reference number 668-216, and is part of the holdings of the KITLV Tropenmuseum in Amsterdam. Jangang-jangang actually merits an article of its own, since it is a quite different script from Bugis-Makassarese lontara': the two have slightly different spelling conventions (among them the innovation of "angka", the Arabic 2 numeral, as a null-consonant vowel-bearer to "double" a previous consonant when one of two syllables beginning with the same consonant has /a/ as its vowel; in BM script, you can only double up vowel signs on a shared initial consonant letter if neither syllable has /a/). Also, JJ is in all likelihood (despite the term "lontara' beru" i.e. "new lontara'") a younger script dating back to the mid-to late 1500s and based directly on a decorative, vertical "Gaja Muda" style of South Sumatran script with a very few borrowings from Javanese script in a style used around the very early 1600s. (See my work on this at <a rel="nofollow" class="external free" href="https://independent.academia.edu/ChristopherRayMiller">https://independent.academia.edu/ChristopherRayMiller</a>; I am preparing a manuscript following on my presentation at the Tokyo University of Foreign Studies symposium on Endangered Scripts of Island Southeast Asia last February-March that deals with the origins of Jangang-jangang and lontara' in greater detail.) </p><p><a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Kiwehtin&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Kiwehtin (page does not exist)">Kiwehtin</a> (<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Kiwehtin&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User talk:Kiwehtin (page does not exist)">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Lontara_script#c-Kiwehtin-2014-06-21T20:08:00.000Z-Name_of_Article" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:08, 21 June 2014 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Kiwehtin-2014-06-21T20:08:00.000Z-Name_of_Article"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Kiwehtin-2014-06-21T20:08:00.000Z-Name_of_Article"></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Lontara_alphabet_or_rather_Lontara_script?" data-mw-thread-id="h-Lontara_alphabet_or_rather_Lontara_script?-2017-05-13T17:16:00.000Z"><span id="Lontara_alphabet_or_rather_Lontara_script.3F"></span><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Lontara_alphabet_or_rather_Lontara_script?-2017-05-13T17:16:00.000Z"></span>Lontara alphabet or rather Lontara script?<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Lontara_alphabet_or_rather_Lontara_script?-2017-05-13T17:16:00.000Z"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Talk:Lontara_script&action=edit&section=11" title="Edit section: Lontara alphabet or rather Lontara script?"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Zalmoksis-2017-05-13T17:16:00.000Z-Lontara_alphabet_or_rather_Lontara_script?"></span>Shouldn't the entry be titled <b>Lontara script</b> rather than <b>Lontara alphabet</b>, reserving the term "alphabet" for true alphabets like Latin, Greek, Cyrillic, Georgian or even Hangul. As for now there seems to be a mess -- there's <a href="/wiki/Brahmi_script" title="Brahmi script">Brahmi script</a> and <a href="/wiki/Kawi_script" title="Kawi script">Kawi script</a>, but <a href="/wiki/Pallava_alphabet" class="mw-redirect" title="Pallava alphabet">Pallava alphabet</a> and <a href="/wiki/Lontara_alphabet" class="mw-redirect" title="Lontara alphabet">Lontara alphabet</a> although they are all abugidas working more or less the same way. <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Zalmoksis&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Zalmoksis (page does not exist)">Zalmoksis</a> (<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Zalmoksis&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User talk:Zalmoksis (page does not exist)">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Lontara_script#c-Zalmoksis-2017-05-13T17:16:00.000Z-Lontara_alphabet_or_rather_Lontara_script?" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:16, 13 May 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Zalmoksis-2017-05-13T17:16:00.000Z-Lontara_alphabet_or_rather_Lontara_script?"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Zalmoksis-2017-05-13T17:16:00.000Z-Lontara_alphabet_or_rather_Lontara_script?"></span> </p>    </div><noscript><img src="https://login.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:CentralAutoLogin/start?type=1x1" alt="" width="1" height="1" style="border: none; position: absolute;"></noscript> <div class="printfooter" data-nosnippet="">Retrieved from "<a dir="ltr" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Lontara_script&oldid=1258577854">https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Lontara_script&oldid=1258577854</a>"</div></div> <div id="catlinks" class="catlinks" data-mw="interface"><div id="mw-normal-catlinks" class="mw-normal-catlinks"><a href="/wiki/Help:Category" title="Help:Category">Categories</a>: <ul><li><a href="/wiki/Category:B-Class_Indonesia_articles" title="Category:B-Class Indonesia articles">B-Class Indonesia articles</a></li><li><a href="/wiki/Category:Low-importance_Indonesia_articles" title="Category:Low-importance Indonesia articles">Low-importance Indonesia articles</a></li><li><a href="/wiki/Category:WikiProject_Indonesia_articles" title="Category:WikiProject Indonesia articles">WikiProject Indonesia articles</a></li><li><a href="/wiki/Category:B-Class_Writing_system_articles" title="Category:B-Class Writing system articles">B-Class Writing system articles</a></li><li><a href="/wiki/Category:High-importance_Writing_system_articles" title="Category:High-importance Writing system articles">High-importance Writing system articles</a></li></ul></div></div> </div> </main> </div> <div class="mw-footer-container"> <footer id="footer" class="mw-footer" > <ul id="footer-info"> <li id="footer-info-lastmod"> This page was last edited on 20 November 2024, at 13:40<span class="anonymous-show"> (UTC)</span>.</li> <li id="footer-info-copyright">Text is available under the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Text_of_the_Creative_Commons_Attribution-ShareAlike_4.0_International_License" title="Wikipedia:Text of the Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike 4.0 International License">Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike 4.0 License</a>; additional terms may apply. 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