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No further edits should be made to this section.'' :''The result of the discussion was:'' '''delete'''. [[User:Good Olfactory|Good Ol’factory]] <sup>[[User talk:Good Olfactory|(talk)]]</sup> 00:19, 7 February 2013 (UTC) :* '''Propose deleting''' {{Lc|Military equipment of the Falklands War}}<br /> :* '''Propose deletion''' [[:Category:Falklands War military equipment of Argentina]] :* '''Propose deletion''' [[:Category:Falklands War vehicles]] :'''Nominator's rationale:''': Categorizing a type of weapon by a war in which it's been used is against [[WP:DEFINING]] and [[WP:OC#PERFORM]]. See also [[Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2012_December_31#Category:Falklands_War_weapons]] and [[Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2013_January_7#Category:Falklands_War_aircraft]]. Note: The 2 categories containing articles about individual ships are not included in this nom. [[User:DexDor|DexDor]] ([[User talk:DexDor|talk]]) 23:53, 24 January 2013 (UTC) *'''Listify''' to whatever article contains the equipment lists for the order of battle. -- [[Special:Contributions/76.65.128.43|76.65.128.43]] ([[User talk:76.65.128.43|talk]]) 01:48, 25 January 2013 (UTC) *'''Delete''' - these are "performance by performer". Service in a conflict will only very, very, very rarely be defining for a weapons system - it should be covered in lists and articles, not categories. - [[User:The Bushranger|The Bushranger]] <sub>[[User talk:The Bushranger|<span style="color:maroon;">One ping only</span>]]</sub> 02:39, 25 January 2013 (UTC) *:'''Reply'''. Use in the Falklands is very much defining for the [[Sea Harrier]] and the [[Exocet missile]]. I am not a military history buff, but there may well be other weapon systems for which this conflict is defining. --[[User:BrownHairedGirl|<span style="color:#663200;">Brown</span>HairedGirl]] <small>[[User talk:BrownHairedGirl|(talk)]] • ([[Special:Contributions/BrownHairedGirl|contribs]])</small> 20:05, 28 January 2013 (UTC) *::Which leaves it as [[WP:SMALLCAT]]. - [[User:The Bushranger|The Bushranger]] <sub>[[User talk:The Bushranger|<span style="color:maroon;">One ping only</span>]]</sub> 01:18, 29 January 2013 (UTC) *::The Sea Harrier and Exocet are both weapon types that have been used (I believe) in several conflicts of which the Falklands War is the most well known (best documented etc). If we were to categorise weapon types by "war for which the weapon type is best known" then this would be both subjective and non-permanent. [[User:DexDor|DexDor]] ([[User talk:DexDor|talk]]) 06:35, 29 January 2013 (UTC) *'''Delete''' These are what performances by performer cats would be like if we had articles on [[British actors of Indian descent]] and then put that article into something like [[:Category:Harry Potter actors]]. Not that I am sure that would be the right thing, but the problem here is that the articles are not on individual things like actor articles, but mass produced things that there were generally a few hundred copies of.[[User:Johnpacklambert|John Pack Lambert]] ([[User talk:Johnpacklambert|talk]]) 05:38, 26 January 2013 (UTC) *'''Listify then delete''' -- These are performacne by performer categories. [[User:Peterkingiron|Peterkingiron]] ([[User talk:Peterkingiron|talk]]) 16:24, 26 January 2013 (UTC) *'''Keep'''. These categories are part of a well-developed series under [[:Category:Military equipment by conflict]]. I see nothing in the nomination which explains why we can have categories for military equipment of the [[:Category:Military equipment of the Chaco War|Chaco War]], the [[:Category:Military equipment of the Iraq War|Iraq War]], the [[:Category:Military equipment of the Iran–Iraq War‎|Iran–Iraq War‎]], the [[:Category:Military equipment of the Spanish Civil War‎|Spanish Civil War‎]] etc ... but not the Falklands War.<br />Unless there are particular reasons to make the Falklands War an exception, the sub-categories of [[:Category:Military equipment by conflict]] should either be all deleted or all kept. --[[User:BrownHairedGirl|<span style="color:#663200;">Brown</span>HairedGirl]] <small>[[User talk:BrownHairedGirl|(talk)]] • ([[Special:Contributions/BrownHairedGirl|contribs]])</small> 19:54, 28 January 2013 (UTC) *:<small>[[Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Military history|WikiProject Military history]] has been [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia_talk%3AWikiProject_Military_history&diff=535395423&oldid=535378912 notified]. --[[User:BrownHairedGirl|<span style="color:#663200;">Brown</span>HairedGirl]] <small>[[User talk:BrownHairedGirl|(talk)]] • ([[Special:Contributions/BrownHairedGirl|contribs]])</small> 20:16, 28 January 2013 (UTC)</small> **That entire tree needs to go, as it is all performer by performance, and ''none'' of those are defining. [[WP:DEMOLISH|It's just being done one step at a time]]. - [[User:The Bushranger|The Bushranger]] <sub>[[User talk:The Bushranger|<span style="color:maroon;">One ping only</span>]]</sub> 01:17, 29 January 2013 (UTC) ***You link to [[WP:DEMOLISH]], but that's an essay on ''not'' demolishing a structure while it's being built. In this case, you want to demolish a whole structure, so which is the opposite of that essay's subject. So [[WP:DEMOLISH]] doesn't apply.<br />If you want to demolish the whole thing, rather than pruning out what you (or the nominator) consider to be weak parts, then nominate the whole thing. Doing it one step at a time just leads to the same discussion being repeated in several places, with less participation. --[[User:BrownHairedGirl|<span style="color:#663200;">Brown</span>HairedGirl]] <small>[[User talk:BrownHairedGirl|(talk)]] • ([[Special:Contributions/BrownHairedGirl|contribs]])</small> 01:32, 29 January 2013 (UTC) ****The next step (assuming that these 2 CFDs succeed) may well be to propose deleting much of the whole structure (possibly moving WWI / WW2 under a by period/era category). IMO it's generally better to try deleting some example categories to establish the principle before nominating dozens of categories in one go. [[User:DexDor|DexDor]] ([[User talk:DexDor|talk]]) 06:35, 29 January 2013 (UTC) *****The category system works by maintaining consistency. Consistency in naming, consistency in what makes an appropriate characteristic, consistency in intersections. In this case, we have two adjacent discussions on very similar categories, and so far as I can see no editor supporting deletion has offered any reason to distinguish these two categories from the other similar categories. So on this page we have a duplicated discussion, which is a disruptive waste of editors time (same comments get posted in 2 places) ... and because there are several other very similar categories which the nominator proposes to discuss at a later date, we risk inconsistent decisions. I respect the reasons for seeking this change (an arguable case has been made) ... but this is no way to go about such a change. --[[User:BrownHairedGirl|<span style="color:#663200;">Brown</span>HairedGirl]] <small>[[User talk:BrownHairedGirl|(talk)]] • ([[Special:Contributions/BrownHairedGirl|contribs]])</small> 15:10, 29 January 2013 (UTC) ******@BHG: I take the point that it might have been better if I'd combined these two noms, but I was just expecting a few delete !votes. However this is a discussion about whether or not to delete these categories - it's not the best place to discuss procedure. Regarding ''"no editor ... has offered any reason to distinguish these two categories from the other similar categories"'' - I wasn't aware that the nom was expected to include the reason for not proposing deletion of [[WP:OTHERSTUFF]]. I expect this tree to be demolished, but for some of the categories in it a move or a merge (e.g. to [[:Category:20th-century military equipment]]) may be more appropriate than deletion hence the reason for taking this step-by-step (although I'll take larger steps from here). If you now accept the reasons for deletion of these categories will you strike your keep !votes ? [[User:DexDor|DexDor]] ([[User talk:DexDor|talk]]) 21:48, 29 January 2013 (UTC) *******Actually, any perceived procedural failings of an XFD are factor routinely discussed in that XFD, because they have a critical impact on its outcome. --[[User:BrownHairedGirl|<span style="color:#663200;">Brown</span>HairedGirl]] <small>[[User talk:BrownHairedGirl|(talk)]] • ([[Special:Contributions/BrownHairedGirl|contribs]])</small> 19:42, 1 February 2013 (UTC) ---- :''The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''</div> ==== Category:Military equipment of the Iran–Iraq War ==== <div class="boilerplate vfd" style="background:#bff9fc; margin:0 auto; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #AAAAAA;"> :''The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.'' :''The result of the discussion was:'' '''delete'''. [[User:Good Olfactory|Good Ol’factory]] <sup>[[User talk:Good Olfactory|(talk)]]</sup> 00:22, 7 February 2013 (UTC) :* '''Propose deleting''' {{Lc|Military equipment of the Iran–Iraq War}}<br /> * '''Propose deleting''' [[:Category:Weapons of the Iran–Iraq War]] * '''Propose deleting''' [[:Category:Iran–Iraq War guided missiles]] * '''Propose deleting''' [[:Category:Iran–Iraq War artillery]] :'''Nominator's rationale:''' Categorizing a weapon type by a war in which it's been used is against [[WP:DEFINING]] and [[WP:OC#PERFORM]]. See also [[Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2012_December_31#Category:Falklands_War_weapons]]. [[User:DexDor|DexDor]] ([[User talk:DexDor|talk]]) 23:42, 24 January 2013 (UTC) *'''Delete''' per nom and precedent; a form of perfomer by performance. [[User:Carlossuarez46|Carlossuarez46]] ([[User talk:Carlossuarez46|talk]]) 23:45, 24 January 2013 (UTC) *'''Listify''' to whatever article contains the equipment lists for the order of battle. -- [[Special:Contributions/76.65.128.43|76.65.128.43]] ([[User talk:76.65.128.43|talk]]) 01:50, 25 January 2013 (UTC) *'''Delete''' - these are "performance by performer". Service in a conflict will only very, very, very rarely be defining for a weapons system - it should be covered in lists and articles, not categories. - [[User:The Bushranger|The Bushranger]] <sub>[[User talk:The Bushranger|<span style="color:maroon;">One ping only</span>]]</sub> 02:39, 25 January 2013 (UTC) *'''Delete''' per my explanation of this being a really bad category idea in the discussion on the Falkland War category.[[User:Johnpacklambert|John Pack Lambert]] ([[User talk:Johnpacklambert|talk]]) 05:38, 26 January 2013 (UTC) *'''Listify then delete''' as performance by performer categories; per Falkand Islands war precedent. [[User:Peterkingiron|Peterkingiron]] ([[User talk:Peterkingiron|talk]]) 16:25, 26 January 2013 (UTC) *'''Keep'''. These categories are part of a well-developed series under [[:Category:Military equipment by conflict]]. I see nothing in the nomination which explains why we can have categories for military equipment of the [[:Category:Military equipment of the Chaco War|Chaco War]], the [[:Category:Military equipment of the Iraq War|Iraq War]], the [[:Category:Military equipment of the Second Boer War‎|Second Boer War‎]], the [[:Category:Military equipment of the Spanish Civil War‎|Spanish Civil War‎]] etc ... but not the Iran–Iraq War.<br />Unless there are particular reasons to make the Iran–Iraq War an exception, the sub-categories of [[:Category:Military equipment by conflict]] should either be all deleted or all kept. --[[User:BrownHairedGirl|<span style="color:#663200;">Brown</span>HairedGirl]] <small>[[User talk:BrownHairedGirl|(talk)]] • ([[Special:Contributions/BrownHairedGirl|contribs]])</small> 20:18, 28 January 2013 (UTC) **That entire tree needs to go, as it is all performer by performance, and ''none'' of those are defining. [[WP:DEMOLISH|It's just being done one step at a time]]. - [[User:The Bushranger|The Bushranger]] <sub>[[User talk:The Bushranger|<span style="color:maroon;">One ping only</span>]]</sub> 01:17, 29 January 2013 (UTC) ***You link to [[WP:DEMOLISH]], but that's an essay on ''not'' demolishing a structure while it's being built. In this case, you want to demolish a whole structure, so which is the opposite of that essay's subject. So [[WP:DEMOLISH]] doesn't apply.<br />If you want to demolish the whole thing, rather than pruning out what you (or the nominator) consider to be weak parts, then nominate the whole thing. Doing it one step at a time just leads to the same discussion being repeated in several places, with less participation. --[[User:BrownHairedGirl|<span style="color:#663200;">Brown</span>HairedGirl]] <small>[[User talk:BrownHairedGirl|(talk)]] • ([[Special:Contributions/BrownHairedGirl|contribs]])</small> 01:32, 29 January 2013 (UTC) ****The fly in that ointment has been my observation that if you nominate the whole thing, you get opposes based on the fact you nominated the whole thing, instead of individually... - [[User:The Bushranger|The Bushranger]] <sub>[[User talk:The Bushranger|<span style="color:maroon;">One ping only</span>]]</sub> 22:10, 29 January 2013 (UTC) ---- :''The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''</div> ==== Category:Elementary mathematics ==== <div class="boilerplate vfd" style="background:#bff9fc; margin:0 auto; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #AAAAAA;"> :''The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.'' :''The result of the discussion was:'' '''keep''' [[:Category:Elementary algebra]] and [[:Category:Elementary geometry]], '''no consensus''' on the others. – [[User:Fayenatic london|Fayenatic]] '''[[Special:Contributions/Fayenatic london|<span style="color:#FF0000;">L</span>]]'''[[User talk:Fayenatic london|ondon]] 19:48, 27 February 2013 (UTC) :* '''Propose deleting''' {{Lc|Elementary mathematics}}<br /> :* '''Propose deleting''' [[:Category:Elementary algebra]] :* '''Propose deleting''' [[:Category:Elementary arithmetic]] :* '''Propose deleting''' [[:Category:Elementary geometry]] :* '''Propose deleting''' [[:Category:Elementary number theory]] :* <strike>'''Propose deleting''' [[:Category:Elementary special functions]]</strike> :'''Nominator's rationale:''' This categorization fails [[WP:DEFINING]] (for example the [[Integer]] article should not be under [[:Category:Education]]), is not a useful way to categorise things (for example [[:Category:Trigonometry]] includes articles about aspects of trigonometry that are unlikely to be taught in schools). The contents of a mathcs curriculum will vary from year to year and from country to country. If someone wants to create a list of mathematics topics taught in schools (in a particular country/period) then that would be fine - as long as it's referenced of course. Apart from the [[Elementary mathematics]] article there should be no need to upmerge as it's unlikely that any/many of these articles are not already in more appropriate places under [[:Category:Mathematics]]. We don't (AFAIK) have any other similar categories for other subjects (Category:Introductory physics [[Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2012_December_29#Category:Introductory_physics| was deleted a while back]]). [[User:DexDor|DexDor]] ([[User talk:DexDor|talk]]) 23:23, 24 January 2013 (UTC) ::I've withdrawn [[:Category:Elementary special functions]] from the nom as result of discussions below. [[User:DexDor|DexDor]] ([[User talk:DexDor|talk]]) 22:07, 29 January 2013 (UTC) *'''<s>Oppose</s>''' <small>more detailed vote below</small> The second article I checked, [[Semicircle]] had only [[:Category:Elementary geometry]]. I agree 'elementary' is not the clearest name, but either deleting or upmerging leaves a categorisation basically useless to readers, with articles like [[Addition]] having their only category one which contains things like [[Nijenhuis–Richardson bracket]]. This is one example of many where articles belong in elementary algebra/arithmetic (or some similar category) and also somewhere in the abstract algebra tree, when the majority of readers who might be interested in the article know nothing of abstract algebra. It is possible that the geometry category could be merged, with some work on properly categorising exceptions, into [[:Category:Euclidean geometry]], but overall these categories serve a purpose which has no replacement offered. --[[User:Qetuth|Qetuth]] ([[User talk:Qetuth|talk]]) 00:20, 25 January 2013 (UTC) ::By the way, [[:Category:Elementary special functions]] is a completely different beast to the others. It is well defined, not based on educational levels, and should not be part of this nomination, nor I believe a subcategory of [[:Category:Elementary mathematics]], although I can't quite pick where it should go instead without more thought. --[[User:Qetuth|Qetuth]] ([[User talk:Qetuth|talk]]) 00:26, 25 January 2013 (UTC) :::Which probably goes to show we should get rid of this whole tree.[[User:Johnpacklambert|John Pack Lambert]] ([[User talk:Johnpacklambert|talk]]) 05:43, 26 January 2013 (UTC) *'''Upmerge''' to the various mathmatics parents articles. This is a misguided way to categorize these topics. Math curriculum will varry, especially on the secondary level. I find the well reasoned arguments for why this is bad categorizing very well explained.[[User:Johnpacklambert|John Pack Lambert]] ([[User talk:Johnpacklambert|talk]]) 05:42, 26 January 2013 (UTC) *Revised vote after examining contents in more detail: :'''No opposition''' to upmerging [[:Category:Elementary arithmetic]] or [[:Category:Elementary number theory]] to their non-elementary counterparts. Also check what articles in the latter would need to be readded to the [[:Category:Number theory]] tree. :'''Strongly oppose''' doing anything with [[:Category:Elementary special functions]] besides removing it from [[:Category:Elementary mathematics]], as this is a completely different use of the word 'elementary' and irrelevant to this discussion. :'''Oppose''' a simple upmerge or deletion of [[:Category:Elementary algebra]] or [[:Category:Elementary geometry]], but agree that a rename/resort might be a good idea. The problem with these is that there is a very big difference between the contents of these categories and their non-elementary parents. What schools call 'algebra', and what mathematicians call 'algebra', are in practice different topics, although there are links between them, so merging these would be categorisation by shared name. This is not so much a matter of WP separating things out because they are on a school curriculum, as both WP and schools separating things out because they are of a different nature, and WP then linking the school curriculum to show a more objective definition. :'''Selectively upmerge''' the contents of [[:Category:Elementary mathematics]] to [[:Category:Mathematics]], [[:Category:History of mathematics]] and [[:Category:Elementary algebra]]. Currently [[:Category:Mathematics]] is kept virtually empty, there is no reason it could not hold most of these basic concepts. --[[User:Qetuth|Qetuth]] ([[User talk:Qetuth|talk]]) 10:11, 26 January 2013 (UTC) *'''Oppose''' upmerging elementary algebra and geometry to their parent categories (because there is a huge difference between what "algebra" and "geometry" mean to a school student and to a professional mathematician, and these category differences largely reflect that distinction). Also oppose upmerging elementary mathematics to mathematics for a different reason: I think the main mathematics category should be reserved for major branches of mathematics (i.e. the few articles there now should be diffused to lower categories), and the articles now in elementary mathematics just don't belong at that level of prominence within the mathematics hierarchy. And of course oppose any change to elementary special functions: that's a different usage of the word "elementary", a term of art for a very specific topic, and is almost as far off-topic for this CfD as [[:Category:Elementary schools in the United States]] would have been. I would support removing the elementary special functions category from being a child of the elementary mathematics category, though, because that seems to reflect the same confusion rather than being a natural subcategory relation. —[[User:David Eppstein|David Eppstein]] ([[User talk:David Eppstein|talk]]) 03:27, 27 January 2013 (UTC) *'''Oppose''' all proposed remedies. The purpose of categories is to provide readers with a useful way to navigate between pages on related topics that share a defining characteristic. It seems clear to me that "Elementary geometry" and "Elementary algebra" are such useful navigation aids. I don't buy the argument that "elementary" is not a defining characteristic, in the sense that what people learn in school called "algebra" is a different subject from what mathematicians call "algebra", and there should be separate categories for these different notions. Readers will want to navigate related pages that include things like [[addition]] and [[multiplication]], but exclude things like the [[Fundamental theorem of Galois theory]]. So it seems to me that these categories serve a clear purpose. I don't agree with an upmerge of [[:Category:Elementary mathematics]], basically for the same reasons articulated by David Eppstein, but that category could use some trimming and diffusing into subcategories. [[User:Sławomir Biały|<span style="text-shadow:grey 0.3em 0.3em 0.1em; class=texhtml">Sławomir Biały</span>]] ([[User talk:Sławomir Biały|talk]]) 22:46, 18 February 2013 (UTC) *'''Oppose''' merger or deletion per David Eppstein and Sławomir Biały. Nominator argues that the categories are not useful. They may not be useful to {{{gender:DexDor|him|her|xyr}}}, but they are certainly useful to whomever created them. And I personally think that they are more useful than upmerging or simply deleting them. -[[User:Nathan Johnson|Nathan Johnson]] ([[User talk:Nathan Johnson|talk]]) 05:23, 19 February 2013 (UTC) ---- :''The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''</div> ==== Category:Recipients of the Philippe Chatrier Award ==== <div class="boilerplate vfd" style="background:#bff9fc; margin:0 auto; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #AAAAAA;"> :''The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.'' :''The result of the discussion was:'' '''listify and delete'''. I will invite the nominator to consider creating the list. --[[User:BrownHairedGirl|<span style="color:#663200;">Brown</span>HairedGirl]] <small>[[User talk:BrownHairedGirl|(talk)]] • ([[Special:Contributions/BrownHairedGirl|contribs]])</small> 13:12, 1 February 2013 (UTC) ::Listified by DexDor to [[Talk:Philippe Chatrier#Award_category]], as [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:DexDor&oldid=536080044#Recipients_of_the_Philippe_Chatrier_Award explained here]. --[[User:BrownHairedGirl|<span style="color:#663200;">Brown</span>HairedGirl]] <small>[[User talk:BrownHairedGirl|(talk)]] • ([[Special:Contributions/BrownHairedGirl|contribs]])</small> 20:46, 1 February 2013 (UTC) ---- :* '''Propose deleting''' {{Lc|Recipients of the Philippe Chatrier Award}}<br /> :'''Nominator's rationale:''' [[WP:OC#AWARD]]. It's also a strange categorization scheme that puts [[NEC|a Japanese multinational]] below [[:Category:Tennis players]]. [[User:DexDor|DexDor]] ([[User talk:DexDor|talk]]) 23:03, 24 January 2013 (UTC) * '''Delete''' – pending an article to tell us how important the [[Philippe Chatrier Award]] might be. (Not mentioned in [[Philippe Chatrier]].) [[User:Oculi|Oculi]] ([[User talk:Oculi|talk]]) 23:13, 24 January 2013 (UTC) ::It's not strange categorisation it's listed ABC. It just so happend that the NEC won the award for services to wheelchair tennis. [[User:GAtechnical|GAtechnical]] ([[User talk:GAtechnical|talk]]) 13:43, 25 January 2013 (UTC) ::: So the mysterious award is not limited to tennis players, and accordingly [[:Category:Tennis players]] is not a parent category. [[User:Oculi|Oculi]] ([[User talk:Oculi|talk]]) 15:34, 25 January 2013 (UTC) *'''Delete''' We have a very high bar for awards cats, although it has never been officially set. It is way above having an article on the award, and more something like being the prevmier, at least national if not international award, in a very broad field, with very broad recognition that you can get enough editors to believe is a truly worthwhile thing to have a category and vote keep on. This award does not come anywhere near that. It may or may not be notable enough to have an article, but certainly does not need a category.[[User:Johnpacklambert|John Pack Lambert]] ([[User talk:Johnpacklambert|talk]]) 05:47, 26 January 2013 (UTC) *'''Listify and then delete''', as we invariably do with award categories. Lists do the job better than categories as they can place the people in date order. As we do not have [[Philippe Chatrier Award]], whatever it may be, plain deletion would destroy potentially valuable information. [[User:Peterkingiron|Peterkingiron]] ([[User talk:Peterkingiron|talk]]) 16:30, 26 January 2013 (UTC) ---- :''The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''</div> ==== Category:Eurovision Song Contest venues ==== <div class="boilerplate vfd" style="background:#bff9fc; margin:0 auto; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #AAAAAA;"> :''The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.'' :''The result of the discussion was:'' '''delete'''. [[User:The Bushranger|The Bushranger]] <sub>[[User talk:The Bushranger|<span style="color:maroon;">One ping only</span>]]</sub> 01:08, 1 February 2013 (UTC) :* '''Propose deleting''' {{Lc|Eurovision Song Contest venues}}<br /> :<strike>'''Nominator's rationale:''' [[WP:OC#AWARD]] [[User:DexDor|DexDor]] ([[User talk:DexDor|talk]]) 23:01, 24 January 2013 (UTC)</strike> :'''Nominator's rationale:''' [[WP:OC#VENUES]] [[User:DexDor|DexDor]] ([[User talk:DexDor|talk]]) 06:27, 25 January 2013 (UTC) *'''Delete''' per nom. Location by performer is a form of over categorizations; [[:Category:Beatles concert venues]], [[:Category:Super Bowl venues]], [[:Category:Witch trial venues]], [[:Category:Marian apparition venues]], etc., would all be reasonable creations if this is kept. [[User:Carlossuarez46|Carlossuarez46]] ([[User talk:Carlossuarez46|talk]]) 23:47, 24 January 2013 (UTC) *'''Delete''' per [[WP:OC#VENUES]]; I think that's the section of the guidelines the nominator must have meant to reference. [[User:Good Olfactory|Good Ol’factory]] <sup>[[User talk:Good Olfactory|(talk)]]</sup> 04:13, 25 January 2013 (UTC) *'''Note''' The category was only created temporarily to assist myself in a task on behalf of [[WP:ESC|ProjectEurovision]] to roll out templates across the correct articles using ATB. I pointed out a few months ago that the project on a whole didn't have all articles assigned to them. And thus we set about this task to get the correct contest templates placed on the respective articles. I was informed the category would have been deleted a couple of months afterwards, but it seems this hasn't been the case. Apologies for any inconvenience. [[User:Wesley Mouse|<span style="font-size:15px;font-family:Foco;color:#621f48">'''Wesley'''</span>]]♦[[User talk:Wesley Mouse|<sup><span style="font-size:12px;font-family:Foco;color:#c91b25">'''''Mouse'''''</span></sup>]] 13:41, 25 January 2013 (UTC) *'''Keep''' I dont see a problem in having a category and list of the host venues of the worlds largest music competition. Neither do I see any issue with having a super bowl venues category if someone makes one. Lets not make everything into a problem. I would assume that had the Eurovision been the US biggest show then no one would object to this category. --[[User:BabbaQ|BabbaQ]] ([[User talk:BabbaQ|talk]]) 13:44, 25 January 2013 (UTC) *'''Delete''' per [[WP:OC#VENUES]], which is clear on the issue. [[User:Oculi|Oculi]] ([[User talk:Oculi|talk]]) 15:37, 25 January 2013 (UTC) *'''Delete''' clearly fails the venues rules.[[User:Johnpacklambert|John Pack Lambert]] ([[User talk:Johnpacklambert|talk]]) 05:49, 26 January 2013 (UTC) *'''Delete''' -- The appropriate place for the infoamtion is in a list article relating to the contest and its winners. [[User:Peterkingiron|Peterkingiron]] ([[User talk:Peterkingiron|talk]]) 16:31, 26 January 2013 (UTC) ---- :''The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''</div> ==== Category:EC 3.5.1 ==== <div class="boilerplate vfd" style="background:#bff9fc; margin:0 auto; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #AAAAAA;"> :''The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.'' :''The result of the discussion was:'' '''relisted''' at [[Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2013 February 9#Category:EC_3.5.1|CfD 2013 February 9]]. --[[User:BrownHairedGirl|<span style="color:#663200;">Brown</span>HairedGirl]] <small>[[User talk:BrownHairedGirl|(talk)]] • ([[Special:Contributions/BrownHairedGirl|contribs]])</small> 17:05, 9 February 2013 (UTC) ---- :* '''Propose renaming''' [[:Category:EC 3.5.1]] to <s>[[:Category:Triphosphoric Monoester Hydrolases]]</s> [[:Category:Linear amides]] :'''Nominator's rationale:''' '''Rename'''. Ran into this one by accident. [[EC 3.5.1]] seems to be a short hand standardized notation for [[Triphosphoric Monoester Hydrolases]]. Since neither the short form or the long form have articles, it is not clear what term should be used. This is a trial nomination. If there is a consensus, then the related categories will need renaming. Comments especially welcome. [[User:Vegaswikian|Vegaswikian]] ([[User talk:Vegaswikian|talk]]) 07:00, 14 January 2013 (UTC) *'''Comment''' Shouldn't it be [[:Category:Triphosphoric monoester hydrolases]] as classes of chemicals aren't normally title cased in WP ? [[User:DexDor|DexDor]] ([[User talk:DexDor|talk]]) 18:49, 14 January 2013 (UTC) *'''Comment''' How did you establish that that's the meaning ? [[User:DexDor|DexDor]] ([[User talk:DexDor|talk]]) 18:49, 14 January 2013 (UTC) **From [[List of EC numbers (EC 3)|this list]] after transposing some digits. Nomination is fixed to show [[linear amides]]. [[User:Vegaswikian|Vegaswikian]] ([[User talk:Vegaswikian|talk]]) 19:57, 14 January 2013 (UTC) *'''Comment'''. [[:Category:Enzymes by function]] contains a swath of these EC #.#.# categories. Do they all have name descriptors, or is the only way to describe some by the [[Enzyme Commission number]]? The current names are vague, to say the least. [[User:Good Olfactory|Good Ol’factory]] <sup>[[User talk:Good Olfactory|(talk)]]</sup> 06:29, 24 January 2013 (UTC) **Most appear to have names. In going through the list, I found this entry, ''EC 3.1.2.24: transferred entry now EC 3.13.1.3'', interesting. I think it adds support for not using this method of classification. [[User:Vegaswikian|Vegaswikian]] ([[User talk:Vegaswikian|talk]]) 01:04, 25 January 2013 (UTC) <hr style="width:55%;" /> :<span style="color:#FF4F00;">'''[[WP:RELIST|Relisted]] to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.'''</span><br /> :'''Relisting comment:''' The nom specifically asked for comments so I assume people would be ok with relisting to give the opportunity to have more discussion. It doesn't seem like enough conversation has taken place here to come up with a plan.<br /> :<small>Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, [[user:delldot|<span style="color:#990066;">delldot</span>]] <small>[[user talk:delldot|<span style="color:DarkRed;">&nabla;.</span>]]</small> 19:00, 24 January 2013 (UTC)</small> <hr style="width:55%;" /> *'''rename to [[:Category:Linear amidases]]''' per entry at [[List of EC numbers (EC 3)]] and usual syntax for enzymes. This term is also used in a couple of the articles. [[User:Mangoe|Mangoe]] ([[User talk:Mangoe|talk]]) 20:48, 24 January 2013 (UTC) **I don't know the correct form for the plural names here. So it this is it, I don't object to this. While it may mean nothing here, amides passes my spell checker, amidases does not. [[User:Vegaswikian|Vegaswikian]] ([[User talk:Vegaswikian|talk]]) 19:23, 25 January 2013 (UTC) ***Hmmmm... the [http://www.chem.qmul.ac.uk/iubmb/enzyme/EC3/5/ IUBMB standard] suggests that this ought to be [[:Category:Hydrolases action on carbon-nitrogen bonds on than peptide bonds in linear amidines]]. Maybe we should opt for [[:Category:Enzymes in the EC 3.5.1 group]] and stick a headnote on it explaining what that means. [[User:Mangoe|Mangoe]] ([[User talk:Mangoe|talk]]) 01:43, 29 January 2013 (UTC) ****Yuch! If we went with the formal definition, then it is a quadruple intersection where one of the conditions is a not something. I have to wonder at this point if deletion may be the best option for the entire series. We already have a list... [[User:Vegaswikian|Vegaswikian]] ([[User talk:Vegaswikian|talk]]) 03:21, 30 January 2013 (UTC) ---- :''The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''</div> ==== Category:WikiProject Medicine descendant projects ==== <div class="boilerplate vfd" style="background:#bff9fc; margin:0 auto; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #AAAAAA;"> :''The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.'' :''The result of the discussion was:'' '''keep'''. There was no consensus on whether the wider point of whether or not a WikiProject should have unfettered freedom to organise its own categories, but there a is a consensus that this is an appropriate way to group the large number of descendant categories of this project. --[[User:BrownHairedGirl|<span style="color:#663200;">Brown</span>HairedGirl]] <small>[[User talk:BrownHairedGirl|(talk)]] • ([[Special:Contributions/BrownHairedGirl|contribs]])</small> 12:36, 1 February 2013 (UTC) ---- :* '''Propose merging''' [[:Category:WikiProject Medicine descendant projects]] to [[:Category:WikiProject Medicine]] :'''Nominator's rationale:''' Most descendant projects are simply listed in the category of the parent project. Adding this middleman is [[WP:overcategorization|overcategorization]]. [[User:RockMagnetist|RockMagnetist]] ([[User talk:RockMagnetist|talk]]) 18:53, 24 January 2013 (UTC) *'''Keep''' there certainly are enough contents that it makes sense from an organizational standpoint, so I don't see how this is overcategorization. Since most projects don't have many descendant projects, I doubt they'd need it, but there aren't just a handful here. -- [[Special:Contributions/76.65.128.43|76.65.128.43]] ([[User talk:76.65.128.43|talk]]) 01:52, 25 January 2013 (UTC) *:For an example of a project with a lot of descendants that doesn't seem to need this subcat, see [[:Category:WikiProject Biology]]. [[User:RockMagnetist|RockMagnetist]] ([[User talk:RockMagnetist|talk]]) 03:02, 25 January 2013 (UTC) * '''Keep''' It's really up to WikiProjects to decide how to manage their stuff. OVERCAT is irrelevant, because it's about cats in the main namespace. Also, unlike WP Biology, WPMED has a lot of subcats about WPMED. Mushing 16 other WikiProjects' cats into a list that already contains 9 WPMED-specific cats (for task forces, the collaboration, etc) is just going to make it harder to find the WPMED-specific cats. [[User:WhatamIdoing|WhatamIdoing]] ([[User talk:WhatamIdoing|talk]]) 04:43, 25 January 2013 (UTC) *'''Keep''': I created the category 4.5 years ago to organize WPMED's categories, which were previously a mess - everything was dumped in {{cat|WikiProject Medicine}}. Having all of the descendant categories in a subcategory makes it easy for WPMED to determine which categories are part of WPMED, and which are dumped there for lack of a better categorization. All of the categories directly in {{cat|WikiProject Medicine}} WPMED directly looks after and are within its scope. Anything in {{cat|WikiProject Medicine descendant projects}} WPMED does not look after. (Excluding {{cat|WikiProject Hospitals}}, which the nominator just added to {{cat|WikiProject Medicine}} today - which is likely the impetus of this CfD.) All of WPMED's categories are neatly categorized into subcategories. Throwing all of the descendent categories into the main category just adds clutter. And surely 16 categories is enough to warrant a subcategory. Looking at {{cat|WikiProject Biology}}, their category structure is a mess. You shouldn't have to look through 23 unrelated categories to find which ones are actually relevant to the project (which is likely what you are looking for in a category named for the WikiProject - not descendent projects). --[[User:Scottalter|Scott Alter]] ([[User talk:Scottalter|talk]]) 04:47, 25 January 2013 (UTC) *'''Comment''': I agree that it's up to a WikiProject to manage its own stuff, but the choice of parent category is up to the children, as is the choice of wikiproject parents. I suspect that you made the choice for them when you created this category. Also, I think that 23 subcategories doesn't really qualify as a "mess". [[User:RockMagnetist|RockMagnetist]] ([[User talk:RockMagnetist|talk]]) 17:31, 25 January 2013 (UTC) **When I made this category, I just moved all of the projects already in [[:Category:WikiProject Medicine]] to [[:Category:WikiProject Medicine descendant projects]]. The decision to place the "child" projects within WPMED was made either by the individual project's membership, or (more often) by other people trying to appropriately categorize the eponymous project categories. I would even argue that none of the projects in this category are actually children of WPMED. Because WPMED is the largest and most active of them all, it has subsumed the role of parent without actually being one. If you look at [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Medicine|WPMED]], the project does not list any children or parent projects - just "Related projects." Almost all of the former descendent projects have been converted to task forces and are now part of the project (see [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:WikiProject_Medicine&oldid=233138667#Related_WikiProjects related projects prior to WPMED task forces creation]). If the assigning of parentage is entirely necessary, all of these projects should be descendents of [[WP:Health]] (which is barely semi-active now, and had been inactive when this category was created) - not WPMED. And when I say "mess", I just mean the clutter of mixing WPMED-related articles and categories with the other projects' categories and pages. Members of one project are not necessarily interested in another, and should not have to go through a mix of content to find what you are looking for...thus leading to my related proposal linked below. --[[User:Scottalter|Scott Alter]] ([[User talk:Scottalter|talk]]) 22:35, 29 January 2013 (UTC) *'''Comment''': Scott, at [[Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Council#WikProject_category_categorization]], you have proposed an intriguing idea that is relevant to this discussion. [[User:RockMagnetist|RockMagnetist]] ([[User talk:RockMagnetist|talk]]) 16:08, 26 January 2013 (UTC) **If my proposal is followed through, this category would end up being not needed. However, that is for a different rationale - unrelated to this CfD. The two issues should be evaluated separately. This discussion will be moot if the proposal is enacted...but this CfD will likely close before the other discussion. --[[User:Scottalter|Scott Alter]] ([[User talk:Scottalter|talk]]) 22:35, 29 January 2013 (UTC) ---- :''The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''</div> ==== Category:Influential Kenyans ==== <div class="boilerplate vfd" style="background:#bff9fc; margin:0 auto; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #AAAAAA;"> :''The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.'' :''The result of the discussion was:'' '''delete'''. [[WP:SNOW]]. [[User:The Bushranger|The Bushranger]] <sub>[[User talk:The Bushranger|<span style="color:maroon;">One ping only</span>]]</sub> 01:19, 29 January 2013 (UTC) :* '''Propose deleting''' {{Lc|Influential Kenyans}}<br /> :'''Nominator's rationale:''' Not an objective categorisation. [[User:PamD|<span style="color:green;">'''''Pam'''''</span>]][[User talk:PamD|<span style="color:brown;">'''''D'''''</span>]] 13:54, 24 January 2013 (UTC) *'''delete''' Presumably any ''uninfluential'' Kenyan would not be notable. [[User:Mangoe|Mangoe]] ([[User talk:Mangoe|talk]]) 17:06, 24 January 2013 (UTC) *'''Delete''' There is no clear definition of what makes someone "influential".[[User:Johnpacklambert|John Pack Lambert]] ([[User talk:Johnpacklambert|talk]]) 18:15, 24 January 2013 (UTC) *'''Delete''' purely subjective; I assume most Kenyans, like most Fooians in general, have influence on something or somewhat - even the butterfly effect??? [[User:Carlossuarez46|Carlossuarez46]] ([[User talk:Carlossuarez46|talk]]) 23:48, 24 January 2013 (UTC) *'''Delete''' as subjective and not defining. --[[User:Qetuth|Qetuth]] ([[User talk:Qetuth|talk]]) 01:04, 25 January 2013 (UTC) *'''Delete''' And which sources would define ''influence''? [[User:Dimadick|Dimadick]] ([[User talk:Dimadick|talk]]) 09:51, 25 January 2013 (UTC) *'''Delete''' per nominator and per [[WP:OC#SUBJECTIVE]]. --[[User:BrownHairedGirl|<span style="color:#663200;">Brown</span>HairedGirl]] <small>[[User talk:BrownHairedGirl|(talk)]] • ([[Special:Contributions/BrownHairedGirl|contribs]])</small> 12:32, 25 January 2013 (UTC) *'''Delete''' -- "Influential" makews this a POV category. Both articles are already in "People from Nairobi", an appropriate Kenyan people category. [[User:Peterkingiron|Peterkingiron]] ([[User talk:Peterkingiron|talk]]) 16:34, 26 January 2013 (UTC) ---- :''The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''</div> ==== Postal history by country ==== <div class="boilerplate vfd" style="background:#bff9fc; margin:0 auto; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #AAAAAA;"> :''The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.'' :''The result of the discussion was:'' '''keep''' [[:Category:Postal history of Slovenia]], but '''merge''' all the others ''without prejudice to re-creating them if they can be populated with more than one article''. --[[User:BrownHairedGirl|<span style="color:#663200;">Brown</span>HairedGirl]] <small>[[User talk:BrownHairedGirl|(talk)]] • ([[Special:Contributions/BrownHairedGirl|contribs]])</small> 12:42, 1 February 2013 (UTC) ---- :* '''Propose merging''' [[:Category:Postal history of Bhutan]] to '''all parents''' ({{cl|Postal history by country}}, Philately of Bhutan, History of Bhutan) :* '''Propose merging''' [[:Category:Postal history of Cyprus]] to '''all parents''' :* '''Propose merging''' [[:Category:Postal history of Estonia]] to '''all parents''' :* '''Propose merging''' [[:Category:Postal history of Italy]] to '''all parents''' :* '''Propose merging''' [[:Category:Postal history of Pakistan]] to '''all parents''' :* '''Propose merging''' [[:Category:Postal history of Slovenia]] to '''all parents''' -- see discussion below on this one. :'''Nominator's rationale:''' '''Upmerge''', without prejudice to re-creation if related articles are found. Currently, these categories each only contain the like-named main article. (Note: parent categories are not uniform as some countries have a sub-cat "History of Foo by topic".) – [[User:Fayenatic london|Fayenatic]] '''[[Special:Contributions/Fayenatic london|<span style="color:#FF0000;">L</span>]]'''[[User talk:Fayenatic london|ondon]] 13:11, 24 January 2013 (UTC) *'''Upmerge''' for now. No reason to have this as one article cats where the article shares the cat name.[[User:Johnpacklambert|John Pack Lambert]] ([[User talk:Johnpacklambert|talk]]) 18:49, 24 January 2013 (UTC) *'''Upmerge''' per nom seems appropriate as there is little chance of filling the sub cats. [[User:Ww2censor|ww2censor]] ([[User talk:Ww2censor|talk]]) 21:59, 24 January 2013 (UTC) *'''Question'''. How many articles would be needed to keep a category? It's clear that these categories have the potential to grow. I see that the categories 'Postal history of Germany' and 'Postal history of Canada' have three members and have not been nominated. I've found a related article for 'Postal history of Slovenia' and can create another one (e.g. Museum of Post and Telecommunications),[http://www.culture.si/en/Museum_of_Post_and_Telecommunications] so that this category may also be kept. Would this be ok? --[[User:Eleassar|Eleassar]] <sup>[[User talk:Eleassar|my talk]]</sup> 20:47, 27 January 2013 (UTC) **Fine by me; that's why I added "without prejudice..." in the nomination. – [[User:Fayenatic london|Fayenatic]] '''[[Special:Contributions/Fayenatic london|<span style="color:#FF0000;">L</span>]]'''[[User talk:Fayenatic london|ondon]] 21:00, 29 January 2013 (UTC) ::Ok, as promised, I've created this article at [[Museum of Post and Telecommunications]] (hopefully it will be expanded through time). --[[User:Eleassar|Eleassar]] <sup>[[User talk:Eleassar|my talk]]</sup> 13:30, 30 January 2013 (UTC) ---- :''The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''</div> ==== Category:Harz Mountain geography stubs ==== <div class="boilerplate vfd" style="background:#bff9fc; margin:0 auto; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #AAAAAA;"> :''The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.'' :''The result of the discussion was:'' '''delete''' category and template. --[[User:BrownHairedGirl|<span style="color:#663200;">Brown</span>HairedGirl]] <small>[[User talk:BrownHairedGirl|(talk)]] • ([[Special:Contributions/BrownHairedGirl|contribs]])</small> 12:57, 1 February 2013 (UTC) ---- :* '''Propose deleting''' {{Lc|Harz Mountain geography stubs}}<br /> :'''Nominator's rationale:''' '''Delete'''. Unproposed template and category for an area that is not an official administrative region. All of the subcategories here are already subcategorized under the official regions. Propose deleting category and template. All articles tagged with the template should be examined for better placement in the official regions. [[User:Dawynn|Dawynn]] ([[User talk:Dawynn|talk]]) 12:46, 24 January 2013 (UTC) *'''Delete''' per nom; unofficial location stubs would mess up an well-laid out geographical stub tree. [[User:Carlossuarez46|Carlossuarez46]] ([[User talk:Carlossuarez46|talk]]) 23:49, 24 January 2013 (UTC) *'''Delete''' per nom. Quoting [[Harz]]: "The following districts (Kreise) fall wholly or partly within the Harz:" so for any 'partly' districts it would not be an appropriate parent anyway. --[[User:Qetuth|Qetuth]] ([[User talk:Qetuth|talk]]) 01:09, 25 January 2013 (UTC) ---- :''The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''</div> ==== Category:Postage by country ==== <div class="boilerplate vfd" style="background:#bff9fc; margin:0 auto; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #AAAAAA;"> :''The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.'' :''The result of the discussion was:'' '''delete'''. [[User:The Bushranger|The Bushranger]] <sub>[[User talk:The Bushranger|<span style="color:maroon;">One ping only</span>]]</sub> 01:10, 1 February 2013 (UTC) :* '''Propose deleting''' {{Lc|Postage by country}}<br /> :'''Nominator's rationale:''' '''Delete'''. Not needed; contains only 3 cats, of which 2 are already in the other one ({{cl|Postal systems by country‎}}). There is no need to upmerge to any parent either. – [[User:Fayenatic london|Fayenatic]] '''[[Special:Contributions/Fayenatic london|<span style="color:#FF0000;">L</span>]]'''[[User talk:Fayenatic london|ondon]] 12:34, 24 January 2013 (UTC) *'''Support''' Postage is a charge for sending a letter. [[User:Laurel Lodged|Laurel Lodged]] ([[User talk:Laurel Lodged|talk]]) 23:46, 24 January 2013 (UTC) *'''Delete''' not clear what would go in this category that would not fall under the postal system cat.[[User:Johnpacklambert|John Pack Lambert]] ([[User talk:Johnpacklambert|talk]]) 05:51, 26 January 2013 (UTC) ---- :''The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''</div> ==== Category:Six Flags rides ==== <div class="boilerplate vfd" style="background:#bff9fc; margin:0 auto; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #AAAAAA;"> :''The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.'' :''The result of the discussion was:'' '''rename''' - C2C, matching standard for sort of category as used in others. [[User:The Bushranger|The Bushranger]] <sub>[[User talk:The Bushranger|<span style="color:maroon;">One ping only</span>]]</sub> 02:30, 28 January 2013 (UTC) :* '''Propose renaming''' [[:Category:Six Flags rides]] to [[:Category:Six Flags attractions]] :'''Nominator's rationale:''' Category doesn't just contain rides. <span style="text-shadow:grey 0.5em 0.5em 0.6em;"> '''[[User:Astros4477|<span style="color:black;">Astros</span><span style="color:blue;">4477</span>]]''' ([[User talk:Astros4477|<span style="color:darkblue;">Talk</span>]])</span> 02:24, 24 January 2013 (UTC) *'''comment''' This is not a single park, so I'm dubious this is an appropriate level of classification. [[User:Mangoe|Mangoe]] ([[User talk:Mangoe|talk]]) 02:35, 24 January 2013 (UTC) **Other categories such as [[:Category:Walt Disney Parks and Resorts attractions]] and [[:Category:Universal Parks & Resorts attractions]] are already like this.--<span style="text-shadow:grey 0.5em 0.5em 0.6em;"> '''[[User:Astros4477|<span style="color:black;">Astros</span><span style="color:blue;">4477</span>]]''' ([[User talk:Astros4477|<span style="color:darkblue;">Talk</span>]])</span> 02:47, 24 January 2013 (UTC) ---- :''The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''</div> ==== Category:Cedar Fair rides ==== <div class="boilerplate vfd" style="background:#bff9fc; margin:0 auto; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #AAAAAA;"> :''The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.'' :''The result of the discussion was:'' '''rename''' - C2C, matching standard for sort of category as used in others. [[User:The Bushranger|The Bushranger]] <sub>[[User talk:The Bushranger|<span style="color:maroon;">One ping only</span>]]</sub> 02:30, 28 January 2013 (UTC) :* '''Propose renaming''' [[:Category:Cedar Fair rides]] to [[:Category:Cedar Fair attractions]] :'''Nominator's rationale:''' Category doesn't just contain rides. <span style="text-shadow:grey 0.5em 0.5em 0.6em;"> '''[[User:Astros4477|<span style="color:black;">Astros</span><span style="color:blue;">4477</span>]]''' ([[User talk:Astros4477|<span style="color:darkblue;">Talk</span>]])</span> 02:08, 24 January 2013 (UTC) *'''comment''' This is not a single park, so I'm dubious this is an appropriate level of classification. [[User:Mangoe|Mangoe]] ([[User talk:Mangoe|talk]]) 02:35, 24 January 2013 (UTC) **Other categories such as [[:Category:Walt Disney Parks and Resorts attractions]] and [[:Category:Universal Parks & Resorts attractions]] are already like this.--<span style="text-shadow:grey 0.5em 0.5em 0.6em;"> '''[[User:Astros4477|<span style="color:black;">Astros</span><span style="color:blue;">4477</span>]]''' ([[User talk:Astros4477|<span style="color:darkblue;">Talk</span>]])</span> 02:47, 24 January 2013 (UTC) ---- :''The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''</div> ==== Category:Films about dragons ==== <div class="boilerplate vfd" style="background:#bff9fc; margin:0 auto; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #AAAAAA;"> :''The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.'' :''The result of the discussion was:'' <s>'''keep'''</s> '''procedural keep'''. The only editor to support the nominator's proposal to delete asked "how much about dragons must the film be?", which does not appear to be a fully resolved question. However, since the same editor noted that this question also applies to most "films about Foo" categories, there is no particular reason to single this category out from all the other "films about Foo" categories, or from the huge set of categories under [[:Category:Works by topic]].<br />Since [[:Category:Works by topic]] is a huge category tree, a group nomination of such categories would be unwieldy. Editors who want to discuss appropriateness of this type of categorisation may want to consider opening a [[WP:RFC]] on the subject. --[[User:BrownHairedGirl|<span style="color:#663200;">Brown</span>HairedGirl]] <small>[[User talk:BrownHairedGirl|(talk)]] • ([[Special:Contributions/BrownHairedGirl|contribs]])</small> 13:29, 1 February 2013 (UTC) ::'''PS'''. I note that in any case, this category had not been tagged to indicate that it was the subject of a deletion discussion, so the result of this discussion cannot be considered to represent a consensus. I have therefore changed the result of this discussion to "procedural keep" ... and will administer a {{tl|minnow}} to the nominator for this oversight. --[[User:BrownHairedGirl|<span style="color:#663200;">Brown</span>HairedGirl]] <small>[[User talk:BrownHairedGirl|(talk)]] • ([[Special:Contributions/BrownHairedGirl|contribs]])</small> 13:34, 1 February 2013 (UTC) ---- *'''Delete''' [[:Category:Films about dragons]] *'''Nominator's rationale''' when I realized that [[The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey]] was in here, I just knew this category was over used. The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey is not in anyway about a dragon, it just happens to have a dragon as a character. We do not want to categorize films by all the characters who appear in them, so this is just a bad idea and should be deleted. The fact that that film is not in [[:Category:Films about Dwarves]], [[:Category:Films about goblins]] and [[:Category:Films about elves]] and even [[:Category:Films about wizards]], since we see multiple of all of those beings in the film and only one dragon, and since those other beings have arguably larger roles, just makes one wonder why this category exists. The good news is we do not have those categories, so I see no reason to have this one.[[User:Johnpacklambert|John Pack Lambert]] ([[User talk:Johnpacklambert|talk]]) 00:34, 24 January 2013 (UTC) *'''Keep''' as a justifiable sub-cat of [[:Category:Dragons in popular culture]], [[:Category:Films about animals]] and [[:Category:Works about dragons]]. There are also categories for {{cl|Elves in popular culture}}, {{cl|Dwarves in popular culture}} and {{cl|Wizards in film}}; the last two are currently under-populated, but they all look justifiable to me. This franchise should probably be in them all. As for goblins, [[:Category:Fictional goblins]] which includes [[Orc (Middle-earth)]] may be enough. – [[User:Fayenatic london|Fayenatic]] '''[[Special:Contributions/Fayenatic london|<span style="color:#FF0000;">L</span>]]'''[[User talk:Fayenatic london|ondon]] 13:44, 24 January 2013 (UTC) *'''Keep and cleanup'''—While I agree that the Hobbit films don't belong here as the films are not "about" Smaug, many of the contents are appropriate. [[User:Beeswaxcandle|Beeswaxcandle]] ([[User talk:Beeswaxcandle|talk]]) 17:35, 24 January 2013 (UTC) *'''Delete''' per nom; suffers the same problem as most "films about Foo"; how much about dragons mus the film be? and what reliable source tells us that it is at least that much? Take [[The Hobbit (2012 film)]] which is in this category, but not in [[:Category:Films about horses]], despite the length of time horses appear is multiple times the length of time the dragon (singular) appears; so someone is making some subjective judgments - and in category space, that's not permitted (see [[WP:SUBJ]] and [[WP:POV]]. [[User:Carlossuarez46|Carlossuarez46]] ([[User talk:Carlossuarez46|talk]]) 23:54, 24 January 2013 (UTC) ::This is a good point. Is [[The Lord of the Rings: The Two Towers]] in the Horses category, because that film has at least one horse with a specific name, maybe more.[[User:Johnpacklambert|John Pack Lambert]] ([[User talk:Johnpacklambert|talk]]) 05:54, 26 January 2013 (UTC) *'''Keep''' per Fayenatic london. To address Carlossuarez46s concern, 4 different paragraphs in the plot section of the article in question mention a dragon, and the lead links to [[Dragon (Middle-earth)]], yet no mention of horses is given at all. To address JPLs question, again no mention of horses (or Dragons) in that article that I can see, but if it were to be added to the Horses category (which I am ''not'' suggesting) I think being largely set in [[Rohan (Middle-earth)]] would be a stronger argument than the clearly undefining "has a named horse". --[[User:Qetuth|Qetuth]] ([[User talk:Qetuth|talk]]) 00:32, 27 January 2013 (UTC) *'''Keep''' The characteristic is a defining one and should be based on reliable and verifiable sources supporting the description. Borderline cases -- if any exist -- should be addressed on the talk pages of any article in question, and the excuse is never a valid reason to delete a category. [[User:Alansohn|Alansohn]] ([[User talk:Alansohn|talk]]) 21:33, 27 January 2013 (UTC) ---- :''The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). 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