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href="#Cabinet_members_wrong"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">2</span> <span>Cabinet members wrong</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">1 comment</span> <ul id="toc-Cabinet_members_wrong-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Announcements" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1 vector-toc-list-item-expanded"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Announcements"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">3</span> <span>Announcements</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">1 comment</span> <ul id="toc-Announcements-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Hillary_Clinton_will_be_Sec._of_State" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1 vector-toc-list-item-expanded"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Hillary_Clinton_will_be_Sec._of_State"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">4</span> <span>Hillary Clinton will 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id="toc-Template_collapse_and_Cabinet-level_officials" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1 vector-toc-list-item-expanded"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Template_collapse_and_Cabinet-level_officials"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">7</span> <span>Template collapse and Cabinet-level officials</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">21 comments</span> <ul id="toc-Template_collapse_and_Cabinet-level_officials-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Robert_Gates_will_continue_to_be_Defense_Secretary" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1 vector-toc-list-item-expanded"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Robert_Gates_will_continue_to_be_Defense_Secretary"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">8</span> <span>Robert Gates will continue to be Defense Secretary</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">6 comments</span> <ul 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If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the ongoing discussions. <style data-mw-deduplicate="TemplateStyles:r1129693374">.mw-parser-output .hlist dl,.mw-parser-output .hlist ol,.mw-parser-output .hlist ul{margin:0;padding:0}.mw-parser-output .hlist dd,.mw-parser-output .hlist dt,.mw-parser-output .hlist li{margin:0;display:inline}.mw-parser-output .hlist.inline,.mw-parser-output .hlist.inline dl,.mw-parser-output .hlist.inline ol,.mw-parser-output .hlist.inline ul,.mw-parser-output .hlist dl dl,.mw-parser-output .hlist dl ol,.mw-parser-output .hlist dl ul,.mw-parser-output .hlist ol dl,.mw-parser-output .hlist ol ol,.mw-parser-output .hlist ol ul,.mw-parser-output .hlist ul dl,.mw-parser-output .hlist ul ol,.mw-parser-output .hlist ul ul{display:inline}.mw-parser-output .hlist .mw-empty-li{display:none}.mw-parser-output .hlist dt::after{content:": "}.mw-parser-output .hlist dd::after,.mw-parser-output .hlist li::after{content:" · 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href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_United_States/Members" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject United States/Members">Become a Member</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_United_States" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject United States">Project Talk</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_United_States/Article_alerts" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject United States/Article alerts">Alerts</a></li></ul> </div><span class="metadata wpb-metadata"><span class="wpb-project">United States</span><span class="wpb-project_link">Wikipedia:WikiProject United States</span><span class="wpb-banner_name">Template:WikiProject United States</span><span class="wpb-assessment_cat">United States articles</span></span></td><td class="mbox-empty-cell"></td></tr><tr><td><figure class="mw-default-size mw-halign-center" typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Great_Seal_of_the_United_States_(obverse).svg" class="mw-file-description"><img alt="Taskforce icon" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/5c/Great_Seal_of_the_United_States_%28obverse%29.svg/50px-Great_Seal_of_the_United_States_%28obverse%29.svg.png" decoding="async" width="50" height="50" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/5c/Great_Seal_of_the_United_States_%28obverse%29.svg/75px-Great_Seal_of_the_United_States_%28obverse%29.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/5c/Great_Seal_of_the_United_States_%28obverse%29.svg/100px-Great_Seal_of_the_United_States_%28obverse%29.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="600" data-file-height="600"/></a><figcaption></figcaption></figure></td><td class="mbox-text" colspan="2">This template is supported by <b><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_United_States_Government" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject United States Government">WikiProject U.S. Government</a></b>.</td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr></tbody></table> <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1237879475"><link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1259570071"><table class="tmbox tmbox-notice mw-collapsible innercollapse wpb wpb-table inactive-wikiproject"><tbody><tr class="wpb-header"><td class="wpb-header-icon"><span typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:People_icon_dead.svg" class="mw-file-description"><img alt="WikiProject icon" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/6b/People_icon_dead.svg/25px-People_icon_dead.svg.png" decoding="async" width="25" height="25" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/6b/People_icon_dead.svg/38px-People_icon_dead.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/6b/People_icon_dead.svg/50px-People_icon_dead.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="100" data-file-height="100"/></a></span></td><td class="wpb-header-combined"><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Barack_Obama" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Barack Obama">Barack Obama</a> <span class="wpb-header-bubbles"> (<a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:INACTIVEWP" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:INACTIVEWP">inactive</a>)</span></td></tr><tr><td class="mbox-text wpb-main" colspan="2"><table><tbody><tr><td class="mbox-image wpb-image"><span typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:People_icon_dead.svg" class="mw-file-description"><img alt="WikiProject icon" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/6b/People_icon_dead.svg/40px-People_icon_dead.svg.png" decoding="async" width="40" height="40" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/6b/People_icon_dead.svg/60px-People_icon_dead.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/6b/People_icon_dead.svg/80px-People_icon_dead.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="100" data-file-height="100"/></a></span></td><td class="mbox-text">This template is within the scope of <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Barack_Obama" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Barack Obama">WikiProject Barack Obama</a>, a project which is currently considered to be <b><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:INACTIVEWP" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:INACTIVEWP">inactive</a></b>.<span class="metadata wpb-metadata"><span class="wpb-project">Barack Obama</span><span class="wpb-project_link">Wikipedia:WikiProject Barack Obama</span><span class="wpb-banner_name">Template:WikiProject Barack Obama</span><span class="wpb-assessment_cat">Barack Obama articles</span></span></td><td class="mbox-empty-cell"></td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr></tbody></table> <meta property="mw:PageProp/toc"/> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Source" data-mw-thread-id="h-Source-2008-11-05T23:45:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Source-2008-11-05T23:45:00.000Z"></span>Source<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Source-2008-11-05T23:45:00.000Z"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Template_talk:Obama_cabinet&action=edit&section=1" title="Edit section: Source"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-ABC101090-2008-11-05T23:45:00.000Z-Source"></span>What is the source for Obama`s Chief of staff? <a href="/wiki/User:ABC101090" class="mw-redirect" title="User:ABC101090">ABC101090</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:ABC101090" class="mw-redirect" title="User talk:ABC101090">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:Obama_cabinet#c-ABC101090-2008-11-05T23:45:00.000Z-Source" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:45, 5 November 2008 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-ABC101090-2008-11-05T23:45:00.000Z-Source"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-ABC101090-2008-11-05T23:45:00.000Z-Source"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Nmajdan-2008-11-06T01:58:00.000Z-ABC101090-2008-11-05T23:45:00.000Z"></span>I started this template after MSNBC said Emanuel had accepted the position. Shortly thereafter, they retracted it. So, no source that he has accepted yet. My apologies for jumping the gun. Maybe tomorrow.↔<a href="/wiki/User:Nmajdan" title="User:Nmajdan"><span style="font:bold 11px Verdana,sans-serif;">NMajdan</span></a>•<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Nmajdan" title="User talk:Nmajdan"><span style="font:9px Verdana,sans-serif; color:#000;">talk</span></a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:Obama_cabinet#c-Nmajdan-2008-11-06T01:58:00.000Z-ABC101090-2008-11-05T23:45:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:58, 6 November 2008 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Nmajdan-2008-11-06T01:58:00.000Z-ABC101090-2008-11-05T23:45:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Nmajdan-2008-11-06T01:58:00.000Z-ABC101090-2008-11-05T23:45:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Noeticsage-2008-11-06T02:00:00.000Z-Nmajdan-2008-11-06T01:58:00.000Z"></span>Here is the source: <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081106/ap_on_el_pr/obama">Yahoo! News</a> —<b><a href="/wiki/User:Noeticsage" title="User:Noeticsage"><span style="color:black;">Noetic</span></a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Noeticsage" title="User talk:Noeticsage"><span style="color:green;">Sage</span></a></b> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:Obama_cabinet#c-Noeticsage-2008-11-06T02:00:00.000Z-Nmajdan-2008-11-06T01:58:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:00, 6 November 2008 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Noeticsage-2008-11-06T02:00:00.000Z-Nmajdan-2008-11-06T01:58:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Noeticsage-2008-11-06T02:00:00.000Z-Nmajdan-2008-11-06T01:58:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-88.112.126.235-2008-11-06T05:56:00.000Z-Noeticsage-2008-11-06T02:00:00.000Z"></span>Could you reference that on the template? <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/88.112.126.235" title="Special:Contributions/88.112.126.235">88.112.126.235</a> (<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:88.112.126.235&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User talk:88.112.126.235 (page does not exist)">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:Obama_cabinet#c-88.112.126.235-2008-11-06T05:56:00.000Z-Noeticsage-2008-11-06T02:00:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">05:56, 6 November 2008 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-88.112.126.235-2008-11-06T05:56:00.000Z-Noeticsage-2008-11-06T02:00:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-88.112.126.235-2008-11-06T05:56:00.000Z-Noeticsage-2008-11-06T02:00:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-194.157.127.65-2008-11-07T20:27:00.000Z-88.112.126.235-2008-11-06T05:56:00.000Z"></span>Reportedly the position of senior adviser has also been filled. Shouldn`t this be on the template? ABC101090. <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">—Preceding <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Signatures" title="Wikipedia:Signatures">unsigned</a> comment added by <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/194.157.127.65" title="Special:Contributions/194.157.127.65">194.157.127.65</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:194.157.127.65" title="User talk:194.157.127.65">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:Obama_cabinet#c-194.157.127.65-2008-11-07T20:27:00.000Z-88.112.126.235-2008-11-06T05:56:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:27, 7 November 2008 (UTC)</a></span><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-194.157.127.65-2008-11-07T20:27:00.000Z-88.112.126.235-2008-11-06T05:56:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-194.157.127.65-2008-11-07T20:27:00.000Z-88.112.126.235-2008-11-06T05:56:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-ABC101090-2008-11-07T20:37:00.000Z-194.157.127.65-2008-11-07T20:27:00.000Z"></span>The two messages above are mine. ¨<a href="/wiki/User:ABC101090" class="mw-redirect" title="User:ABC101090">ABC101090</a> <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">—Preceding <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Signatures" title="Wikipedia:Signatures">undated</a> comment was added at <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:Obama_cabinet#c-ABC101090-2008-11-07T20:37:00.000Z-194.157.127.65-2008-11-07T20:27:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:37, 7 November 2008 (UTC)</a>.<span data-mw-comment-end="c-ABC101090-2008-11-07T20:37:00.000Z-194.157.127.65-2008-11-07T20:27:00.000Z"></span></span><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-ABC101090-2008-11-07T20:37:00.000Z-194.157.127.65-2008-11-07T20:27:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Cabinet_members_wrong" data-mw-thread-id="h-Cabinet_members_wrong-2008-11-20T23:39:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Cabinet_members_wrong-2008-11-20T23:39:00.000Z"></span>Cabinet members wrong<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Cabinet_members_wrong-2008-11-20T23:39:00.000Z"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Template_talk:Obama_cabinet&action=edit&section=2" title="Edit section: Cabinet members wrong"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-75.172.60.107-2008-11-20T23:39:00.000Z-Cabinet_members_wrong"></span>The cabinet members section is wrong, these are not his cabinet members. He doesn't have any yet. They are potential nominations. They first have to be nominated by him and then confirmed by the Senate. You can't assume they'll be confirmed months ahead of the confirmation hearings, or that he'll even decide to actually nominate them after he becomes president. <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">—Preceding <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Signatures" title="Wikipedia:Signatures">unsigned</a> comment added by <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/75.172.60.107" title="Special:Contributions/75.172.60.107">75.172.60.107</a> (<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:75.172.60.107&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User talk:75.172.60.107 (page does not exist)">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:Obama_cabinet#c-75.172.60.107-2008-11-20T23:39:00.000Z-Cabinet_members_wrong" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:39, 20 November 2008 (UTC)</a></span><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-75.172.60.107-2008-11-20T23:39:00.000Z-Cabinet_members_wrong"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-75.172.60.107-2008-11-20T23:39:00.000Z-Cabinet_members_wrong"></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Announcements" data-mw-thread-id="h-Announcements-2008-11-21T03:57:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Announcements-2008-11-21T03:57:00.000Z"></span>Announcements<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Announcements-2008-11-21T03:57:00.000Z"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Template_talk:Obama_cabinet&action=edit&section=3" title="Edit section: Announcements"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Sweet-pea-1981-2008-11-21T03:57:00.000Z-Announcements"></span>Please wait to post information here until it has been officially announced by the Obama camp. <a href="/wiki/User:Sweet-pea-1981" class="mw-redirect" title="User:Sweet-pea-1981">Sweet Pea 1981</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Sweet-pea-1981" class="mw-redirect" title="User talk:Sweet-pea-1981">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:Obama_cabinet#c-Sweet-pea-1981-2008-11-21T03:57:00.000Z-Announcements" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">03:57, 21 November 2008 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Sweet-pea-1981-2008-11-21T03:57:00.000Z-Announcements"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Sweet-pea-1981-2008-11-21T03:57:00.000Z-Announcements"></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Hillary_Clinton_will_be_Sec._of_State" data-mw-thread-id="h-Hillary_Clinton_will_be_Sec._of_State-2008-11-21T21:42:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Hillary_Clinton_will_be_Sec._of_State-2008-11-21T21:42:00.000Z"></span>Hillary Clinton will be Sec. of State<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Hillary_Clinton_will_be_Sec._of_State-2008-11-21T21:42:00.000Z"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Template_talk:Obama_cabinet&action=edit&section=4" title="Edit section: Hillary Clinton will be Sec. of State"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-RiseRobotRise-2008-11-21T21:42:00.000Z-Hillary_Clinton_will_be_Sec._of_State"></span>Its been confirmed by several different news sources that Hillary Clinton has accepted the offering of Secretary of State by the Obama transition team. They will make their formal announcement after Thanksgiving, but several different news agencies have confirmed that she will be the next Secretary of State <a rel="nofollow" class="external autonumber" href="http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/22/us/politics/22obama.html?em">[1]</a> <a rel="nofollow" class="external autonumber" href="http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/article5209634.ece">[2]</a> <a rel="nofollow" class="external autonumber" href="http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2008/11/21/report-hillary-clinton-accepts-secretary-state-nod/">[3]</a> <a rel="nofollow" class="external autonumber" href="http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=97327730">[4]</a> <a rel="nofollow" class="external autonumber" href="https://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/27832013/">[5]</a> <small><span class="autosigned">—Preceding <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Signatures" title="Wikipedia:Signatures">unsigned</a> comment added by <a href="/wiki/User:RiseRobotRise" title="User:RiseRobotRise">RiseRobotRise</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:RiseRobotRise" title="User talk:RiseRobotRise">talk</a> • <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/RiseRobotRise" title="Special:Contributions/RiseRobotRise">contribs</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:Obama_cabinet#c-RiseRobotRise-2008-11-21T21:42:00.000Z-Hillary_Clinton_will_be_Sec._of_State" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:42, 21 November 2008 (UTC)</a></span></small><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-RiseRobotRise-2008-11-21T21:42:00.000Z-Hillary_Clinton_will_be_Sec._of_State"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-RiseRobotRise-2008-11-21T21:42:00.000Z-Hillary_Clinton_will_be_Sec._of_State"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Noeticsage-2008-11-21T22:58:00.000Z-RiseRobotRise-2008-11-21T21:42:00.000Z"></span>None of those sources are confirmation - they are speculation from inside sources that Obama will extend the offer to Clinton. She has yet to accept (see <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/11/21/transition.wrap/index.html">Today's CNN article</a>) and even further she hasn't been confirmed by the Senate.—<b><a href="/wiki/User:Noeticsage" title="User:Noeticsage"><span style="color:black;">Noetic</span></a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Noeticsage" title="User talk:Noeticsage"><span style="color:green;">Sage</span></a></b> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:Obama_cabinet#c-Noeticsage-2008-11-21T22:58:00.000Z-RiseRobotRise-2008-11-21T21:42:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:58, 21 November 2008 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Noeticsage-2008-11-21T22:58:00.000Z-RiseRobotRise-2008-11-21T21:42:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Noeticsage-2008-11-21T22:58:00.000Z-RiseRobotRise-2008-11-21T21:42:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Noeticsage-2008-11-22T01:31:00.000Z-Noeticsage-2008-11-21T22:58:00.000Z"></span>Due to what seems to be now <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:EW" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:EW">edit warring</a>, we should not be adding Hillary Clinton until there is <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:CONSENSUS" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:CONSENSUS">consensus</a> that she is confirmed. Please post here before you make changes to the template.—<b><a href="/wiki/User:Noeticsage" title="User:Noeticsage"><span style="color:black;">Noetic</span></a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Noeticsage" title="User talk:Noeticsage"><span style="color:green;">Sage</span></a></b> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:Obama_cabinet#c-Noeticsage-2008-11-22T01:31:00.000Z-Noeticsage-2008-11-21T22:58:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:31, 22 November 2008 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Noeticsage-2008-11-22T01:31:00.000Z-Noeticsage-2008-11-21T22:58:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Noeticsage-2008-11-22T01:31:00.000Z-Noeticsage-2008-11-21T22:58:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Graestan-2008-11-22T03:26:00.000Z-Noeticsage-2008-11-22T01:31:00.000Z"></span>It's <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=97322819">confirmed</a>. They were saying it on NPR just a while ago that she had accepted his offer. <a href="/wiki/User:Graestan" title="User:Graestan">Graestan</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Graestan" title="User talk:Graestan">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:Obama_cabinet#c-Graestan-2008-11-22T03:26:00.000Z-Noeticsage-2008-11-22T01:31:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">03:26, 22 November 2008 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Graestan-2008-11-22T03:26:00.000Z-Noeticsage-2008-11-22T01:31:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Graestan-2008-11-22T03:26:00.000Z-Noeticsage-2008-11-22T01:31:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Graestan-2008-11-22T03:29:00.000Z-Graestan-2008-11-22T03:26:00.000Z"></span>And my first edit to the template was made after I'd heard it was confirmed, too. You might want to pay closer attention to the news if you're going to patrol this template so vigilantly. <a href="/wiki/User:Graestan" title="User:Graestan"><span style="color: #004500;"><b>Graestan</b></span></a><sup>(<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Graestan" title="User talk:Graestan"><span style="color: #004500;"><b>Talk</b></span></a>)</sup> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:Obama_cabinet#c-Graestan-2008-11-22T03:29:00.000Z-Graestan-2008-11-22T03:26:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">03:29, 22 November 2008 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Graestan-2008-11-22T03:29:00.000Z-Graestan-2008-11-22T03:26:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Graestan-2008-11-22T03:29:00.000Z-Graestan-2008-11-22T03:26:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-RiseRobotRise-2008-11-22T04:59:00.000Z-Noeticsage-2008-11-21T22:58:00.000Z"></span>I'm glad Graestan switched it back to Hillary Clinton listed as secretary of state. The CNN link had been posted before the articles I've given links to. They were absolute confirmations, the New York Times article clearly states this in the headline "Clinton Is Said to Accept Offer of Secretary of State Position", in the first paragraph alone it states "Hillary Rodham Clinton has decided to give up her Senate seat to become secretary of state in the Obama administration". The times of London article I linked to says it in its headline "Hillary Clinton agrees to be Secretary of State under Barack Obama". I may have provided the wrong link to the NPR article, but when I went to the NPR page, right there on the front it stated that Hillary Clinton accepts the Secretary of State. The Story broke out about 42 minutes after I made changes to the template, I made sure to back it up with a heavy amount of sources. <a href="/wiki/User:RiseRobotRise" title="User:RiseRobotRise">RiseRobotRise</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:RiseRobotRise" title="User talk:RiseRobotRise">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:Obama_cabinet#c-RiseRobotRise-2008-11-22T04:59:00.000Z-Noeticsage-2008-11-21T22:58:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">04:59, 22 November 2008 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-RiseRobotRise-2008-11-22T04:59:00.000Z-Noeticsage-2008-11-21T22:58:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-RiseRobotRise-2008-11-22T04:59:00.000Z-Noeticsage-2008-11-21T22:58:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Anson2995-2008-11-23T19:43:00.000Z-RiseRobotRise-2008-11-22T04:59:00.000Z"></span>These aren't "absolute confirmations." They are reputable sources reporting speculation, and the fact that the speculation has been confirmed doesn't make the story itself confirmed. What would make it confirmed is if a member of Clinton's staff or Obama's transition team made an actual announcement. That hasn't happened. Until then, confirmed speculation is still just speculation, and I think this whole exercise is very un-encylopedic. <a href="/wiki/User:Anson2995" title="User:Anson2995">Anson2995</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Anson2995" title="User talk:Anson2995">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:Obama_cabinet#c-Anson2995-2008-11-23T19:43:00.000Z-RiseRobotRise-2008-11-22T04:59:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:43, 23 November 2008 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Anson2995-2008-11-23T19:43:00.000Z-RiseRobotRise-2008-11-22T04:59:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Anson2995-2008-11-23T19:43:00.000Z-RiseRobotRise-2008-11-22T04:59:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Columns" data-mw-thread-id="h-Columns-2008-11-21T23:20:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Columns-2008-11-21T23:20:00.000Z"></span>Columns<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Columns-2008-11-21T23:20:00.000Z"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Template_talk:Obama_cabinet&action=edit&section=5" title="Edit section: Columns"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Markles-2008-11-21T23:20:00.000Z-Columns"></span>Why remove the columns I'd put in? I thought they looked nice and nicely compacted the box.—<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Markles&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User talk:Markles (page does not exist)">Markles</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:Obama_cabinet#c-Markles-2008-11-21T23:20:00.000Z-Columns" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:20, 21 November 2008 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Markles-2008-11-21T23:20:00.000Z-Columns"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Markles-2008-11-21T23:20:00.000Z-Columns"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Zntrip-2008-11-22T00:48:00.000Z-Markles-2008-11-21T23:20:00.000Z"></span>They did, but on IE they looked terrible. The rows are display just fine on IE and Mozilla and it isn't that much different from the columns. – <a href="/wiki/User:Zntrip" title="User:Zntrip">Zntrip</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:Obama_cabinet#c-Zntrip-2008-11-22T00:48:00.000Z-Markles-2008-11-21T23:20:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:48, 22 November 2008 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Zntrip-2008-11-22T00:48:00.000Z-Markles-2008-11-21T23:20:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Zntrip-2008-11-22T00:48:00.000Z-Markles-2008-11-21T23:20:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl> <ul><li><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Markles-2008-11-22T01:54:00.000Z-Markles-2008-11-21T23:20:00.000Z"></span>Bummer. —<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Markles&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User talk:Markles (page does not exist)">Markles</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:Obama_cabinet#c-Markles-2008-11-22T01:54:00.000Z-Markles-2008-11-21T23:20:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:54, 22 November 2008 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Markles-2008-11-22T01:54:00.000Z-Markles-2008-11-21T23:20:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Markles-2008-11-22T01:54:00.000Z-Markles-2008-11-21T23:20:00.000Z"></span> <ul><li><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-TonyTheTiger-2008-11-22T22:32:00.000Z-Markles-2008-11-22T01:54:00.000Z"></span>It was a good innovation. It is unfortunate the MSIE can't handle it.--<a href="/wiki/User:TonyTheTiger" title="User:TonyTheTiger">TonyTheTiger</a> <small>(<a href="/wiki/User_talk:TonyTheTiger" title="User talk:TonyTheTiger">t</a>/<a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/TonyTheTiger" title="Special:Contributions/TonyTheTiger">c</a>/<a href="/wiki/User:TonyTheTiger/Antonio_Vernon" class="mw-redirect" title="User:TonyTheTiger/Antonio Vernon">bio</a>/<a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:CHICAGO" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:CHICAGO">WP:CHICAGO</a>/<a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:LOTM" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:LOTM">WP:LOTM</a>) </small> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:Obama_cabinet#c-TonyTheTiger-2008-11-22T22:32:00.000Z-Markles-2008-11-22T01:54:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:32, 22 November 2008 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-TonyTheTiger-2008-11-22T22:32:00.000Z-Markles-2008-11-22T01:54:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-TonyTheTiger-2008-11-22T22:32:00.000Z-Markles-2008-11-22T01:54:00.000Z"></span></li></ul></li></ul> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Renaming" data-mw-thread-id="h-Renaming-2008-11-22T23:52:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Renaming-2008-11-22T23:52:00.000Z"></span>Renaming<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Renaming-2008-11-22T23:52:00.000Z"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Template_talk:Obama_cabinet&action=edit&section=6" title="Edit section: Renaming"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-ABC101090-2008-11-22T23:52:00.000Z-Renaming"></span>I suggest that this template, for the time being, be renamed to "prospective Obama Cabinet" or something similar. <a href="/wiki/User:ABC101090" class="mw-redirect" title="User:ABC101090">ABC101090</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:ABC101090" class="mw-redirect" title="User talk:ABC101090">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:Obama_cabinet#c-ABC101090-2008-11-22T23:52:00.000Z-Renaming" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:52, 22 November 2008 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-ABC101090-2008-11-22T23:52:00.000Z-Renaming"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-ABC101090-2008-11-22T23:52:00.000Z-Renaming"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Therequiembellishere-2008-11-23T00:00:00.000Z-ABC101090-2008-11-22T23:52:00.000Z"></span>That would be pointless because we'd just have to work our way through a redirect to put it back to the current title in less than two months. <a href="/wiki/User:Therequiembellishere" title="User:Therequiembellishere">Therequiembellishere</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Therequiembellishere" title="User talk:Therequiembellishere">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:Obama_cabinet#c-Therequiembellishere-2008-11-23T00:00:00.000Z-ABC101090-2008-11-22T23:52:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:00, 23 November 2008 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Therequiembellishere-2008-11-23T00:00:00.000Z-ABC101090-2008-11-22T23:52:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Therequiembellishere-2008-11-23T00:00:00.000Z-ABC101090-2008-11-22T23:52:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-ABC101090-2008-11-23T10:06:00.000Z-Therequiembellishere-2008-11-23T00:00:00.000Z"></span>Yes, I know. However, for the time being, I believe my suggestion would bring clarity to the template with there being some fighting over the question of whether names should be included. I believe doing a redirect isn`t that hard. <a href="/wiki/User:ABC101090" class="mw-redirect" title="User:ABC101090">ABC101090</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:ABC101090" class="mw-redirect" title="User talk:ABC101090">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:Obama_cabinet#c-ABC101090-2008-11-23T10:06:00.000Z-Therequiembellishere-2008-11-23T00:00:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">10:06, 23 November 2008 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-ABC101090-2008-11-23T10:06:00.000Z-Therequiembellishere-2008-11-23T00:00:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-ABC101090-2008-11-23T10:06:00.000Z-Therequiembellishere-2008-11-23T00:00:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Chaser-2008-11-24T00:01:00.000Z-ABC101090-2008-11-23T10:06:00.000Z"></span>It's a template, not an article. There's no cause to retitle it b/c it's not something people see unless they edit it.--<a href="/wiki/User:Chaser" title="User:Chaser">chaser</a> - <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Chaser" title="User talk:Chaser">t</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:Obama_cabinet#c-Chaser-2008-11-24T00:01:00.000Z-ABC101090-2008-11-23T10:06:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:01, 24 November 2008 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Chaser-2008-11-24T00:01:00.000Z-ABC101090-2008-11-23T10:06:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Chaser-2008-11-24T00:01:00.000Z-ABC101090-2008-11-23T10:06:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Template_collapse_and_Cabinet-level_officials" data-mw-thread-id="h-Template_collapse_and_Cabinet-level_officials-2008-11-24T17:47:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Template_collapse_and_Cabinet-level_officials-2008-11-24T17:47:00.000Z"></span>Template collapse and Cabinet-level officials<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Template_collapse_and_Cabinet-level_officials-2008-11-24T17:47:00.000Z"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Template_talk:Obama_cabinet&action=edit&section=7" title="Edit section: Template collapse and Cabinet-level officials"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Chaser-2008-11-24T17:47:00.000Z-Template_collapse_and_Cabinet-level_officials"></span>I understand the division into Cabinet and Cabinet-level, but is there any reason those two are set to autocollapse inside the already autocollapsed template? I find it annoying to have to expand the both of them. I suppose someone might not see the Cabinet-level officials, but perhaps we could remove them like in the <a href="/w/index.php?title=List_of_United_States_Cabinets&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="List of United States Cabinets (page does not exist)">templates for Cabinets before W. Bush's</a> and have just one expansion step for this template. Thoughts?--<a href="/wiki/User:Chaser" title="User:Chaser">chaser</a> - <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Chaser" title="User talk:Chaser">t</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:Obama_cabinet#c-Chaser-2008-11-24T17:47:00.000Z-Template_collapse_and_Cabinet-level_officials" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:47, 24 November 2008 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Chaser-2008-11-24T17:47:00.000Z-Template_collapse_and_Cabinet-level_officials"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Chaser-2008-11-24T17:47:00.000Z-Template_collapse_and_Cabinet-level_officials"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Therequiembellishere-2008-11-24T17:50:00.000Z-Chaser-2008-11-24T17:47:00.000Z"></span>I did that just because it was quite a large template that people might not want to see. I'm very against deleting the Cabinet-rank members because it's misleading and I've been working on adding them others to the previous templates but I need to find out exactly what was a cabinet-rank office and from when to when. If anyone could help me identify these, it would be much appreciated. <a href="/wiki/User:Therequiembellishere" title="User:Therequiembellishere">Therequiembellishere</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Therequiembellishere" title="User talk:Therequiembellishere">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:Obama_cabinet#c-Therequiembellishere-2008-11-24T17:50:00.000Z-Chaser-2008-11-24T17:47:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:50, 24 November 2008 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Therequiembellishere-2008-11-24T17:50:00.000Z-Chaser-2008-11-24T17:47:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Therequiembellishere-2008-11-24T17:50:00.000Z-Chaser-2008-11-24T17:47:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Lestatdelc-2008-11-24T18:45:00.000Z-Therequiembellishere-2008-11-24T17:50:00.000Z"></span>I added the NSA position to the template albeit the syntax needed some help) so that the positions listed this template would include the ones in the cabinet infobox template used in all the U.S. Presidency articles. <a href="/wiki/User:Lestatdelc" title="User:Lestatdelc">Lestatdelc</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Lestatdelc" title="User talk:Lestatdelc">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:Obama_cabinet#c-Lestatdelc-2008-11-24T18:45:00.000Z-Therequiembellishere-2008-11-24T17:50:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:45, 24 November 2008 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Lestatdelc-2008-11-24T18:45:00.000Z-Therequiembellishere-2008-11-24T17:50:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Lestatdelc-2008-11-24T18:45:00.000Z-Therequiembellishere-2008-11-24T17:50:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Therequiembellishere-2008-11-24T19:10:00.000Z-Lestatdelc-2008-11-24T18:45:00.000Z"></span>Then it should be removed from the cabinet infobox templates, not falsely added to this one. <a href="/wiki/User:Therequiembellishere" title="User:Therequiembellishere">Therequiembellishere</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Therequiembellishere" title="User talk:Therequiembellishere">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:Obama_cabinet#c-Therequiembellishere-2008-11-24T19:10:00.000Z-Lestatdelc-2008-11-24T18:45:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:10, 24 November 2008 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Therequiembellishere-2008-11-24T19:10:00.000Z-Lestatdelc-2008-11-24T18:45:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Therequiembellishere-2008-11-24T19:10:00.000Z-Lestatdelc-2008-11-24T18:45:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><b><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Lestatdelc-2008-11-24T19:55:00.000Z-Therequiembellishere-2008-11-24T19:10:00.000Z"></span>Strongly disagree</b>: Technically the Chief of Staff to the President is not a confirmable position "cabinet" position yet is almost always listed as cabinet-rank. Witness <a href="/wiki/Administrator_of_the_Environmental_Protection_Agency" title="Administrator of the Environmental Protection Agency">Administrator of the Environmental Protection Agency</a> which is accorded cabinet rank but is not a Secretary head. What is or is not cabinet rank is not technically determined by whether it is confirmable by Senate (Chief of Staff, Director of OMB) or whether it is a Secretary head (EPA). <a href="/wiki/User:Lestatdelc" title="User:Lestatdelc">Lestatdelc</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Lestatdelc" title="User talk:Lestatdelc">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:Obama_cabinet#c-Lestatdelc-2008-11-24T19:55:00.000Z-Therequiembellishere-2008-11-24T19:10:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:55, 24 November 2008 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Lestatdelc-2008-11-24T19:55:00.000Z-Therequiembellishere-2008-11-24T19:10:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Lestatdelc-2008-11-24T19:55:00.000Z-Therequiembellishere-2008-11-24T19:10:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Therequiembellishere-2008-11-24T20:15:00.000Z-Lestatdelc-2008-11-24T19:55:00.000Z"></span>Cabinet-rank it not defined by a Senate confirmation but by whether they have been accorded the rank or not. If they sit on the Cabinet but are not one of the fifteen heads of the executive departments, then they are of Cabinet-rank. There are six of these and they are in the template, as such. <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://www.whitehouse.gov/government/cabinet.html">Whitehouse.gov</a> lists them all, so if any changes are made, they will be seen here upon his inauguration. However, it is POV and OR to assume what will and will not and what is and is not of rank without a definite source saying so. It is to my understanding that that right to sit on Cabinet must be given by the Senate, as the <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="http://www.paidcontent.org/entry/419-copyright-czar-to-get-cabinet-level-position-at-the-white-house/">recent bill</a> being pushed to add another Cabinet-rank position is currently being put underway. Therefore, I strongly believe that if President-elect Obama intended to remove or add a Cabinet-rank position, it must be done with the Senates approval. As he has stated no such manoeuvre, it can be assumed that the six will remain Cabinet-rank position and are to remain on the template. <a href="/wiki/User:Therequiembellishere" title="User:Therequiembellishere">Therequiembellishere</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Therequiembellishere" title="User talk:Therequiembellishere">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:Obama_cabinet#c-Therequiembellishere-2008-11-24T20:15:00.000Z-Lestatdelc-2008-11-24T19:55:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:15, 24 November 2008 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Therequiembellishere-2008-11-24T20:15:00.000Z-Lestatdelc-2008-11-24T19:55:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Therequiembellishere-2008-11-24T20:15:00.000Z-Lestatdelc-2008-11-24T19:55:00.000Z"></span></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Therequiembellishere-2008-11-24T20:21:00.000Z-Lestatdelc-2008-11-24T19:55:00.000Z"></span>REVISION: I just found <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="http://www.huffingtonpost.com/shelly-palmer/obama-would-create-cabine_b_136473.html">an article</a> about Obama's plan to create a Cabinet-rank Chief Technology Officer, however it doesn't state how it would be done or when. <a href="/wiki/User:Therequiembellishere" title="User:Therequiembellishere">Therequiembellishere</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Therequiembellishere" title="User talk:Therequiembellishere">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:Obama_cabinet#c-Therequiembellishere-2008-11-24T20:21:00.000Z-Lestatdelc-2008-11-24T19:55:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:21, 24 November 2008 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Therequiembellishere-2008-11-24T20:21:00.000Z-Lestatdelc-2008-11-24T19:55:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Therequiembellishere-2008-11-24T20:21:00.000Z-Lestatdelc-2008-11-24T19:55:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Lestatdelc-2008-11-24T20:37:00.000Z-Therequiembellishere-2008-11-24T20:21:00.000Z"></span>As noted in the <a href="/wiki/United_States_Cabinet#Current_Cabinet" class="mw-redirect" title="United States Cabinet">article on the cabinet</a>: <dl><dd>"Though the Cabinet is still an important organ of bureaucratic management, in recent years, the Cabinet has generally declined in relevance as a policy making body. Starting with President Franklin Roosevelt, the trend has been for Presidents to act through the Executive Office of the President or the National Security Council rather than through the Cabinet. This has created a situation in which non-Cabinet officials such as the White House Chief of Staff, the Director of the Office of Management and Budget, and the National Security Advisor are now as powerful as or more powerful than some Cabinet officials."</dd></dl></dd> <dd>and <dl><dd><b>The Cabinet in federal law</b></dd> <dd>There is no explicit definition of the term "Cabinet" in either the United States Code or the Code of Federal Regulations. However, there are occasional references to "cabinet-level officers" or "secretaries", which when viewed in context appear to refer to the heads of the "executive departments" as listed in 5 U.S.C. § 101.</dd> <dd>Under 5 U.S.C. § 3110 federal officials are prohibited from appointing family members to certain governmental posts, including seats in the Cabinet. Passed in 1967, the law is apparently a response to John F. Kennedy's appointment of Robert F. Kennedy to the post of Attorney General of the United States of America.</dd></dl></dd> <dd>In short, there is not exact definition and throughout wikipedia and in many circles, Director of OMB, EPA, NSA, Chief of Staff are considered and listed as "cabinet-rank" though they are not specifcialy in the cabinet. <a href="/wiki/User:Lestatdelc" title="User:Lestatdelc">Lestatdelc</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Lestatdelc" title="User talk:Lestatdelc">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:Obama_cabinet#c-Lestatdelc-2008-11-24T20:37:00.000Z-Therequiembellishere-2008-11-24T20:21:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:37, 24 November 2008 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Lestatdelc-2008-11-24T20:37:00.000Z-Therequiembellishere-2008-11-24T20:21:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Lestatdelc-2008-11-24T20:37:00.000Z-Therequiembellishere-2008-11-24T20:21:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Therequiembellishere-2008-11-24T20:41:00.000Z-Template_collapse_and_Cabinet-level_officials"></span>Wikipedia is not a reputable source and <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://www.whitehouse.gov/government/cabinet.html">this</a> would argue otherwise. <a href="/wiki/User:Therequiembellishere" title="User:Therequiembellishere">Therequiembellishere</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Therequiembellishere" title="User talk:Therequiembellishere">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:Obama_cabinet#c-Therequiembellishere-2008-11-24T20:41:00.000Z-Template_collapse_and_Cabinet-level_officials" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:41, 24 November 2008 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Therequiembellishere-2008-11-24T20:41:00.000Z-Template_collapse_and_Cabinet-level_officials"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Therequiembellishere-2008-11-24T20:41:00.000Z-Template_collapse_and_Cabinet-level_officials"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Therequiembellishere-2008-11-24T20:42:00.000Z-Therequiembellishere-2008-11-24T20:41:00.000Z"></span>Also, the mention of recent post, such as NSA having more POWER than the Cabinet has nothing to do with their placement upon it. <a href="/wiki/User:Therequiembellishere" title="User:Therequiembellishere">Therequiembellishere</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Therequiembellishere" title="User talk:Therequiembellishere">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:Obama_cabinet#c-Therequiembellishere-2008-11-24T20:42:00.000Z-Therequiembellishere-2008-11-24T20:41:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:42, 24 November 2008 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Therequiembellishere-2008-11-24T20:42:00.000Z-Therequiembellishere-2008-11-24T20:41:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Therequiembellishere-2008-11-24T20:42:00.000Z-Therequiembellishere-2008-11-24T20:41:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Lestatdelc-2008-11-25T01:39:00.000Z-Therequiembellishere-2008-11-24T20:42:00.000Z"></span>I am not placing them "in it" I am placing NSA in the Cabinet-rank category (which is used throughout wikipedia) which, like CoS, OMB, EPA, etc. are not "in the Cabinet" but denoted as being the top levels of the "<a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/5/usc_sec_05_00000104----000-.html">Independent establishments</a>", agency and staff within the executive branch. This is used throughout wikipedia as a <b>navigational</b> guide to relevant articles. <a href="/wiki/User:Lestatdelc" title="User:Lestatdelc">Lestatdelc</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Lestatdelc" title="User talk:Lestatdelc">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:Obama_cabinet#c-Lestatdelc-2008-11-25T01:39:00.000Z-Therequiembellishere-2008-11-24T20:42:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:39, 25 November 2008 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Lestatdelc-2008-11-25T01:39:00.000Z-Therequiembellishere-2008-11-24T20:42:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Lestatdelc-2008-11-25T01:39:00.000Z-Therequiembellishere-2008-11-24T20:42:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Therequiembellishere-2008-11-24T20:45:00.000Z-Therequiembellishere-2008-11-24T20:41:00.000Z"></span>Finally, it is still POV to say that NSA is even considered a Cabinet-rank to the degree the other offices you mentioned because NOWHERE does it say that it is. <a href="/wiki/User:Therequiembellishere" title="User:Therequiembellishere">Therequiembellishere</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Therequiembellishere" title="User talk:Therequiembellishere">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:Obama_cabinet#c-Therequiembellishere-2008-11-24T20:45:00.000Z-Therequiembellishere-2008-11-24T20:41:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:45, 24 November 2008 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Therequiembellishere-2008-11-24T20:45:00.000Z-Therequiembellishere-2008-11-24T20:41:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Therequiembellishere-2008-11-24T20:45:00.000Z-Therequiembellishere-2008-11-24T20:41:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Lestatdelc-2008-11-25T01:39:00.000Z-Therequiembellishere-2008-11-24T20:45:00.000Z"></span>Nonsense. It is almost always noted that Chief of Staff is ranked as Cabinet-level even though it, like National Security Advisor is neither Department Secretaries or Agency Heads. Again, there is no explicit definition of the term "Cabinet" in either the United States Code or the Code of Federal Regulations. If an administration styles CoS as Cabinet-rank it can do so. Just as Ford did when he unilateral made the United States Trade Representative "Cabinet level". That said (again) this is a navigational box, and throughout the articles on all the Presidencies here on wikipedia it includes the NSA, like OMB, etc. into "Cabinet-level" sub-categories within the Cabinet infobox. <a href="/wiki/User:Lestatdelc" title="User:Lestatdelc">Lestatdelc</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Lestatdelc" title="User talk:Lestatdelc">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:Obama_cabinet#c-Lestatdelc-2008-11-25T01:39:00.000Z-Therequiembellishere-2008-11-24T20:45:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:39, 25 November 2008 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Lestatdelc-2008-11-25T01:39:00.000Z-Therequiembellishere-2008-11-24T20:45:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Lestatdelc-2008-11-25T01:39:00.000Z-Therequiembellishere-2008-11-24T20:45:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Chaser-2008-11-25T02:44:00.000Z-Template_collapse_and_Cabinet-level_officials"></span>We learned about the Cabinet during my public administration class in undergrad. In brief, the 15 leaders of "executive departments" (that's what's mentioned in the Constitution) make up the Cabinet, plus (by tradition) the VP, heads of the EPA and OMB, drug czar, and trade rep. Presidents ask other officials to sit in on their weekly Cabinet meetings, which is how those officials get "Cabinet-rank". The Senate has nothing to do with it (though the Senate may confirm the officials for the jobs they have, this doesn't directly effect whether or not they become Cabinet-rank, which remains Presidential prerogative). Though this article is aimed at high school students, it helpfully lays out these points <a rel="nofollow" class="external autonumber" href="http://bensguide.gpo.gov/9-12/government/national/cabinet.html">[6]</a>. Additionally, my understanding is that the modern all-powerful chief of staff is always at Cabinet meetings. Bush's chiefs were less powerful, but were still apparently Cabinet-level. </p><p>As to whether the NSA is a Cabinet-level official, only Obama can make that decision. <a href="/wiki/George_W._Bush_Cabinet" class="mw-redirect" title="George W. Bush Cabinet">Bush's Cabinet</a> did not include the NSA. I have no idea what Clinton did. I'd say that it would probably be best to wait and see what Obama does before adding anything that's not part of the Cabinet tradition and that the current President hasn't done.--<a href="/wiki/User:Chaser" title="User:Chaser">chaser</a> - <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Chaser" title="User talk:Chaser">t</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:Obama_cabinet#c-Chaser-2008-11-25T02:44:00.000Z-Template_collapse_and_Cabinet-level_officials" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:44, 25 November 2008 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Chaser-2008-11-25T02:44:00.000Z-Template_collapse_and_Cabinet-level_officials"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Chaser-2008-11-25T02:44:00.000Z-Template_collapse_and_Cabinet-level_officials"></span> </p><p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Lestatdelc-2008-11-25T05:08:00.000Z-Template_collapse_and_Cabinet-level_officials"></span>As I noted above, there is no explicit definition of the term "Cabinet" in either the United States Code or the Code of Federal Regulations. And Presidents define what they term as Cabinet-level. As many acknowledge, the Chief of Staff to the President is not the head of any Agency or Department and in modern times has been considered Cabinet-level. Presidents have unilaterally elevated positions within the Executive to be considered Cabinet level. Ford for example made the made the United States Trade Representative "Cabinet level" though not "in" the Cabinet itself. Under President George W. Bush, Cabinet-level rank also has been accorded to the Administrator, Environmental Protection Agency; Director, Office of Management and Budget; and the Director of National Drug Control Policy. But a clear example of an Administration considering the National Security Advisor as "Cabinet-Level" is from the <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/ws/index.php?pid=7076">archives</a> of the Carter Presidency offical statement: </p> <blockquote><p>Personal Statements of Cabinet and <b>Cabinet-Level Officers</b> Announcement of Release of the Documents.<br/> </p><p> February 25, 1977<br/> <br/> The White House today released, in an unprecedented action, personal statements from 15 Cabinet and <b>Cabinet-level officers</b> disclosing their financial situations, detailing steps they are taking to avoid conflicts of interest, and expressing their commitment to avoid certain activities following their Federal service.<br/> <br/> The release of the documents fulfilled a campaign promise by President Carter and represented the first time a President had required public disclosure of such information from his top officials.<br/> The statements came from:<br/> <br/> SECRETARY OF AGRICULTURE BOB S. BERGLAND<br/> SECRETARY OF COMMERCE JUANITA M. KREPS<br/> SECRETARY OF DEFENSE HAROLD BROWN<br/> SECRETARY OF HEALTH, EDUCATION, AND WELFARE JOSEPH A. CALIFANO, JR.<br/> SECRETARY OF HOUSING AND URBAN DEVELOPMENT PATRICIA ROBERTS HARRIS<br/> SECRETARY OF THE INTERIOR CECIL D. ANDRUS<br/> ATTORNEY GENERAL GRIFFIN B. BELL<br/> SECRETARY OF LABOR F. RAY MARSHALL<br/> SECRETARY OF STATE CYRUS R. VANCE<br/> SECRETARY OF TRANSPORTATION BROCK ADAMS<br/> SECRETARY OF THE TREASURY W. MICHAEL M. BLUMENTHAL<br/> CHAIRMAN OF THE COUNCIL OF ECONOMIC ADVISERS CHARLES L. SCHULTZE<br/> <b>NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER ZBIGNIEW BRZEZINSKI</b><br/> DIRECTOR OF THE OFFICE OF MANAGEMENT AND BUDGET THOMAS B. LANCE<br/> <br/> U.S. REPRESENTATIVE TO THE UNITED NATIONS ANDREW YOUNG<br/> <br/> </p><p> Each statement consists of five parts. These are: a summary of action taken to avoid possible conflicts of interest, a statement of net worth, a statement of 1976 income, a statement of personal affiliations, and a letter of commitment to the President.</p></blockquote> <p>(emphasis mine) </p><p>With that showing that at least one modern Administration made public statements that the NSA is a "Cabinet-level" position within that administration, I would also point out that the <a href="/wiki/Template:Infobox_U.S._Cabinet" title="Template:Infobox U.S. Cabinet">Template:Infobox U.S. Cabinet</a> itself is set up already to include the NSA, as well as Postmaster General, Veterans Affairs, Secretary of the Navy, Chairman of the Joint Chiefs as well as heads of the CIA and FBI. While that in and of itself can be argued that it is not a valid source, I posit this point of this infobox is a navigation tool for the use of readers to find the top positions within an administration which includes those explicitly named as being in the Cabinet itself, as well as those while not named as being '<i>in</i> the Cabinet, are "Cabinet-Level" as matter of import, scope and/or power within an administration. So while I have cited a direct example of an Administration issuing statements that the NSA "Cabinet-Level", I would argue that we keep and use the infobox parameters which include the NSA as well as other "Cabinet-Level" positions as it already has set up. <a href="/wiki/User:Lestatdelc" title="User:Lestatdelc">Lestatdelc</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Lestatdelc" title="User talk:Lestatdelc">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:Obama_cabinet#c-Lestatdelc-2008-11-25T05:08:00.000Z-Template_collapse_and_Cabinet-level_officials" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">05:08, 25 November 2008 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Lestatdelc-2008-11-25T05:08:00.000Z-Template_collapse_and_Cabinet-level_officials"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Lestatdelc-2008-11-25T05:08:00.000Z-Template_collapse_and_Cabinet-level_officials"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Therequiembellishere-2008-11-25T05:18:00.000Z-Lestatdelc-2008-11-25T05:08:00.000Z"></span>Let's just wait for whitehouse.gov to say who's in his cabinet and who isn't. <a href="/wiki/User:Therequiembellishere" title="User:Therequiembellishere">Therequiembellishere</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Therequiembellishere" title="User talk:Therequiembellishere">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:Obama_cabinet#c-Therequiembellishere-2008-11-25T05:18:00.000Z-Lestatdelc-2008-11-25T05:08:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">05:18, 25 November 2008 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Therequiembellishere-2008-11-25T05:18:00.000Z-Lestatdelc-2008-11-25T05:08:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Therequiembellishere-2008-11-25T05:18:00.000Z-Lestatdelc-2008-11-25T05:08:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Chaser-2008-11-25T05:33:00.000Z-Therequiembellishere-2008-11-25T05:18:00.000Z"></span>I agree. The reason the default template has many of these things is that Cabinets from long past contained those members. The <a href="/wiki/United_States_Secretary_of_the_Navy" title="United States Secretary of the Navy">Navy Secretary</a> still exists, but hasn't been in the Cabinet since 1947 (when the Defense Department was created). The last President to include the Postmaster General was LBJ. Cabinet-level doesn't mean important as established by some Wikipedian's opinion (even <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:MrPrada&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:MrPrada (page does not exist)">MrPrada</a>). It means those that attend the weekly meetings and get their photos put on <a rel="nofollow" class="external free" href="https://www.whitehouse.gov/government/cabinet.html">http://www.whitehouse.gov/government/cabinet.html</a> Anything else is too arbitrary to meaningfully choose when we already have such a clear way of determining it.--<a href="/wiki/User:Chaser" title="User:Chaser">chaser</a> - <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Chaser" title="User talk:Chaser">t</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:Obama_cabinet#c-Chaser-2008-11-25T05:33:00.000Z-Therequiembellishere-2008-11-25T05:18:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">05:33, 25 November 2008 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Chaser-2008-11-25T05:33:00.000Z-Therequiembellishere-2008-11-25T05:18:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Chaser-2008-11-25T05:33:00.000Z-Therequiembellishere-2008-11-25T05:18:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Lestatdelc-2008-11-25T05:39:00.000Z-Chaser-2008-11-25T05:33:00.000Z"></span>I am trying not to sound snide (as I am not being snide) but doesn't the fact the the Carter Administration issuing public statements that National Security Adviser Zbigniew Brzezinski was considered "Cabinet-Level" count? <a href="/wiki/User:Lestatdelc" title="User:Lestatdelc">Lestatdelc</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Lestatdelc" title="User talk:Lestatdelc">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:Obama_cabinet#c-Lestatdelc-2008-11-25T05:39:00.000Z-Chaser-2008-11-25T05:33:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">05:39, 25 November 2008 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Lestatdelc-2008-11-25T05:39:00.000Z-Chaser-2008-11-25T05:33:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Lestatdelc-2008-11-25T05:39:00.000Z-Chaser-2008-11-25T05:33:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Therequiembellishere-2008-11-25T05:47:00.000Z-Therequiembellishere-2008-11-25T05:18:00.000Z"></span>Yes, it did. But for the Carter administration. I sent an email a few months back pertaining to cabinet-rank offices (which ones and for how long each time) but my response were unhelpful quick-links. If you know how we can find which other office were considered cabinet-rank by which administrations I be very grateful. <a href="/wiki/User:Therequiembellishere" title="User:Therequiembellishere">Therequiembellishere</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Therequiembellishere" title="User talk:Therequiembellishere">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:Obama_cabinet#c-Therequiembellishere-2008-11-25T05:47:00.000Z-Therequiembellishere-2008-11-25T05:18:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">05:47, 25 November 2008 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Therequiembellishere-2008-11-25T05:47:00.000Z-Therequiembellishere-2008-11-25T05:18:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Therequiembellishere-2008-11-25T05:47:00.000Z-Therequiembellishere-2008-11-25T05:18:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Chaser-2008-11-26T02:32:00.000Z-Template_collapse_and_Cabinet-level_officials"></span>This conflict seems to be over. I've also found a way to put the Cabinet level officials side by side with the Cabinet officials. I tested it in Firefox, IE and Chrome, but please let me know if there are any glitches.--<a href="/wiki/User:Chaser" title="User:Chaser">chaser</a> - <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Chaser" title="User talk:Chaser">t</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:Obama_cabinet#c-Chaser-2008-11-26T02:32:00.000Z-Template_collapse_and_Cabinet-level_officials" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:32, 26 November 2008 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Chaser-2008-11-26T02:32:00.000Z-Template_collapse_and_Cabinet-level_officials"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Chaser-2008-11-26T02:32:00.000Z-Template_collapse_and_Cabinet-level_officials"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Therequiembellishere-2008-11-26T03:28:00.000Z-Chaser-2008-11-26T02:32:00.000Z"></span>Checked in latest Firefox, Explorer, Chrome and Safari browsers. The columns work fine on all. <a href="/wiki/User:Therequiembellishere" title="User:Therequiembellishere">Therequiembellishere</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Therequiembellishere" title="User talk:Therequiembellishere">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:Obama_cabinet#c-Therequiembellishere-2008-11-26T03:28:00.000Z-Chaser-2008-11-26T02:32:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">03:28, 26 November 2008 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Therequiembellishere-2008-11-26T03:28:00.000Z-Chaser-2008-11-26T02:32:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Therequiembellishere-2008-11-26T03:28:00.000Z-Chaser-2008-11-26T02:32:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Robert_Gates_will_continue_to_be_Defense_Secretary" data-mw-thread-id="h-Robert_Gates_will_continue_to_be_Defense_Secretary-2008-11-25T23:00:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Robert_Gates_will_continue_to_be_Defense_Secretary-2008-11-25T23:00:00.000Z"></span>Robert Gates will continue to be Defense Secretary<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Robert_Gates_will_continue_to_be_Defense_Secretary-2008-11-25T23:00:00.000Z"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Template_talk:Obama_cabinet&action=edit&section=8" title="Edit section: Robert Gates will continue to be Defense Secretary"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Spongesquid-2008-11-25T23:00:00.000Z-Robert_Gates_will_continue_to_be_Defense_Secretary"></span>Someone should change the templete accordingly.<a rel="nofollow" class="external autonumber" href="http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1108/15986.html">[7]</a> <small><span class="autosigned">—Preceding <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Signatures" title="Wikipedia:Signatures">unsigned</a> comment added by <a href="/wiki/User:Spongesquid" title="User:Spongesquid">Spongesquid</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Spongesquid" title="User talk:Spongesquid">talk</a> • <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Spongesquid" title="Special:Contributions/Spongesquid">contribs</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:Obama_cabinet#c-Spongesquid-2008-11-25T23:00:00.000Z-Robert_Gates_will_continue_to_be_Defense_Secretary" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:00, 25 November 2008 (UTC)</a></span></small><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Spongesquid-2008-11-25T23:00:00.000Z-Robert_Gates_will_continue_to_be_Defense_Secretary"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Spongesquid-2008-11-25T23:00:00.000Z-Robert_Gates_will_continue_to_be_Defense_Secretary"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Mr_Beale-2008-11-26T01:11:00.000Z-Spongesquid-2008-11-25T23:00:00.000Z"></span>Agreed. According to the current standard, which allows Hillary Clinton to be listed even though Obama has not officially nominated her, Gates should be listed as well.--<a href="/wiki/User:Mr_Beale" title="User:Mr Beale">Mr Beale</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Mr_Beale" title="User talk:Mr Beale">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:Obama_cabinet#c-Mr_Beale-2008-11-26T01:11:00.000Z-Spongesquid-2008-11-25T23:00:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:11, 26 November 2008 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Mr_Beale-2008-11-26T01:11:00.000Z-Spongesquid-2008-11-25T23:00:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Mr_Beale-2008-11-26T01:11:00.000Z-Spongesquid-2008-11-25T23:00:00.000Z"></span></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Spongesquid-2008-11-26T01:57:00.000Z-Spongesquid-2008-11-25T23:00:00.000Z"></span>Plus, since he is already Secretary of Defense, he wouldn't need to be renominated. <small><span class="autosigned">—Preceding <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Signatures" title="Wikipedia:Signatures">unsigned</a> comment added by <a href="/wiki/User:Spongesquid" title="User:Spongesquid">Spongesquid</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Spongesquid" title="User talk:Spongesquid">talk</a> • <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Spongesquid" title="Special:Contributions/Spongesquid">contribs</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:Obama_cabinet#c-Spongesquid-2008-11-26T01:57:00.000Z-Spongesquid-2008-11-25T23:00:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:57, 26 November 2008 (UTC)</a></span></small><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Spongesquid-2008-11-26T01:57:00.000Z-Spongesquid-2008-11-25T23:00:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Spongesquid-2008-11-26T01:57:00.000Z-Spongesquid-2008-11-25T23:00:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Therequiembellishere-2008-11-26T03:28:00.000Z-Spongesquid-2008-11-26T01:57:00.000Z"></span>Should we have his starting date as 2006? He's won't have started the Obama administration until 2009. <a href="/wiki/User:Therequiembellishere" title="User:Therequiembellishere">Therequiembellishere</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Therequiembellishere" title="User talk:Therequiembellishere">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:Obama_cabinet#c-Therequiembellishere-2008-11-26T03:28:00.000Z-Spongesquid-2008-11-26T01:57:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">03:28, 26 November 2008 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Therequiembellishere-2008-11-26T03:28:00.000Z-Spongesquid-2008-11-26T01:57:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Therequiembellishere-2008-11-26T03:28:00.000Z-Spongesquid-2008-11-26T01:57:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Hoshie-2008-11-27T06:24:00.000Z-Therequiembellishere-2008-11-26T03:28:00.000Z"></span>I think the 2009 date should stay. Most books and sites I've seen in the past that list the cabinet have the member listed under the President that appointed them and under the President that retained them.</dd> <dd>For example, Bush 41 kept Reagan's Treasury, AG, and Education secretaries. The latest copy of the <i>World Almanac</i> lists each with the date Reagan appointed them and then again under Bush 41 with year as 1989. Other books do something like this. The 2001 edition of William DeGregorio's <i>The Complete Book of U.S. Presidents</i> ends each profile in the Reagan chapter with "He stayed on in the Bush Administration". In the Bush 41 chapter, DeGregorio begins each profile with "A holdover from the Reagan Administration..." and goes on their story.</dd> <dd>The website Infoplease does the same thing as the <i>World Almanac</i>: Under Reagan it lists each guy and year they were appointed <a rel="nofollow" class="external autonumber" href="http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0101271.html">[8]</a> and under Bush 41 the page lists them again and uses "(Cont.)" for the term <a rel="nofollow" class="external autonumber" href="http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0101273.html">[9]</a>. The IPL's website POTUS does the same thing but uses '1989' for the start of the term; see <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="http://www.potus.com/rwreagan.html">Reagan</a> and <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="http://www.potus.com/ghwbush.html">Bush 41</a>. Encarta does the same as the <i>World Almanac</i> and POTUS on this topic; see <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://encarta.msn.com/media_461520309/ronald_reagan%E2%80%99s_cabinet.html">Reagan</a> and <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://encarta.msn.com/media_461520310/george_h_w_bush%E2%80%99s_cabinet.html">Bush 41</a>.</dd> <dd>For those wondering if this has happened before, it has. Besides Bush 41, Presidents John Adams, Jefferson, Madison, Monroe, Van Buren, Tyler, Andrew Johnson, Arthur, Theodore Roosevelt, Coolidge, Hoover, Truman, Lyndon Johnson, and Ford kept all or part of their predecessors' cabinet. The books and websites do the same thing for the other Presidents as well. - Thanks, <i><a href="/wiki/User:Hoshie" title="User:Hoshie">Hos</a></i><b><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Hoshie" title="User talk:Hoshie">hie</a></b> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:Obama_cabinet#c-Hoshie-2008-11-27T06:24:00.000Z-Therequiembellishere-2008-11-26T03:28:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">06:24, 27 November 2008 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Hoshie-2008-11-27T06:24:00.000Z-Therequiembellishere-2008-11-26T03:28:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Hoshie-2008-11-27T06:24:00.000Z-Therequiembellishere-2008-11-26T03:28:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Chaser-2008-11-27T07:38:00.000Z-Hoshie-2008-11-27T06:24:00.000Z"></span>I changed it to 2009 some time ago.--<a href="/wiki/User:Chaser" title="User:Chaser">chaser</a> - <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Chaser" title="User talk:Chaser">t</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:Obama_cabinet#c-Chaser-2008-11-27T07:38:00.000Z-Hoshie-2008-11-27T06:24:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">07:38, 27 November 2008 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Chaser-2008-11-27T07:38:00.000Z-Hoshie-2008-11-27T06:24:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Chaser-2008-11-27T07:38:00.000Z-Hoshie-2008-11-27T06:24:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="UN_Ambassador_to_be_restored_to_Cabinet_level" data-mw-thread-id="h-UN_Ambassador_to_be_restored_to_Cabinet_level-2008-12-01T23:29:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-UN_Ambassador_to_be_restored_to_Cabinet_level-2008-12-01T23:29:00.000Z"></span>UN Ambassador to be restored to Cabinet level<span data-mw-comment-end="h-UN_Ambassador_to_be_restored_to_Cabinet_level-2008-12-01T23:29:00.000Z"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Template_talk:Obama_cabinet&action=edit&section=9" title="Edit section: UN Ambassador to be restored to Cabinet level"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Lestatdelc-2008-12-01T23:29:00.000Z-UN_Ambassador_to_be_restored_to_Cabinet_level"></span>According to <a href="/wiki/NPR" title="NPR">NPR</a>'s article <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=97661695&ft=1&f=1003">U.N. Envoy Nominee Rice Known As Smart, Tough</a>: </p><p>"The head of the United Nations Foundation, a Washington-based advocacy group, released a statement praising Rice as well as Obama's decision to make the post of U.N. ambassador a Cabinet-level position once again — as it was during the Clinton years." </p><p>The position should most definitely be added back into the template. <a href="/wiki/User:Lestatdelc" title="User:Lestatdelc">Lestatdelc</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Lestatdelc" title="User talk:Lestatdelc">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:Obama_cabinet#c-Lestatdelc-2008-12-01T23:29:00.000Z-UN_Ambassador_to_be_restored_to_Cabinet_level" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:29, 1 December 2008 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Lestatdelc-2008-12-01T23:29:00.000Z-UN_Ambassador_to_be_restored_to_Cabinet_level"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Lestatdelc-2008-12-01T23:29:00.000Z-UN_Ambassador_to_be_restored_to_Cabinet_level"></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Xavier_Becerra" data-mw-thread-id="h-Xavier_Becerra"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Xavier_Becerra"></span>Xavier Becerra<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Xavier_Becerra"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Template_talk:Obama_cabinet&action=edit&section=10" title="Edit section: Xavier Becerra"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span></div> <p><a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="http://www.cqpolitics.com/wmspage.cfm?parm1=5&docID=news-000002992696">Rep. Becerra Offered Trade Representative Post</a> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Eric_Shinseki_-_Veterans_Affairs_pick" data-mw-thread-id="h-Eric_Shinseki_-_Veterans_Affairs_pick-2008-12-06T23:44:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Eric_Shinseki_-_Veterans_Affairs_pick-2008-12-06T23:44:00.000Z"></span>Eric Shinseki - Veterans Affairs pick<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Eric_Shinseki_-_Veterans_Affairs_pick-2008-12-06T23:44:00.000Z"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Template_talk:Obama_cabinet&action=edit&section=11" title="Edit section: Eric Shinseki - Veterans Affairs pick"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="http://voices.washingtonpost.com/the-trail/2008/12/06/shinseki_slated_to_head_va_dem.html?hpid=topnews"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-75.180.235.209-2008-12-06T23:44:00.000Z-Eric_Shinseki_-_Veterans_Affairs_pick"></span>WaPo</a>, <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5jf1fwNqUroMCL73o7QaYXiyzC_EwD94TFVB80">AP</a>, <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2008/12/obama-taps-shin.html">ABC</a>, <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/12/06/obama-to-nominate-shinseki-as-veterans-affairs-secretary/">CNN</a>, <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/28086691/">MSNBC</a>, and <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2008/12/06/obama-veterans-affairs-secretary-pearl-harbor-event/">FNC</a> have all anounced that Gen. Eric Shinseki will be chosen as the Veterans Secretary. Should he be added? <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/75.180.235.209" title="Special:Contributions/75.180.235.209">75.180.235.209</a> (<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:75.180.235.209&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User talk:75.180.235.209 (page does not exist)">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:Obama_cabinet#c-75.180.235.209-2008-12-06T23:44:00.000Z-Eric_Shinseki_-_Veterans_Affairs_pick" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:44, 6 December 2008 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-75.180.235.209-2008-12-06T23:44:00.000Z-Eric_Shinseki_-_Veterans_Affairs_pick"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-75.180.235.209-2008-12-06T23:44:00.000Z-Eric_Shinseki_-_Veterans_Affairs_pick"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-ABC101090-2008-12-07T01:06:00.000Z-75.180.235.209-2008-12-06T23:44:00.000Z"></span>I've entered him hidden until he is announced. Some sources believe he will be announced tomorrow and it is my guess that with change.gov's recent focue on health care that Daschle will be announced as well, possibly alongside an entire Health Policy Team. 23:56, 6 December 2008 (UTC) <dl><dd>I can´t see the post of Sec. of veterans affairs on my computer. It jumps from se. of energy to sec of homeland security. However, in the edit page-view vteran affair sec. can be seen. I use IE.<a href="/wiki/User:ABC101090" class="mw-redirect" title="User:ABC101090">ABC101090</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:ABC101090" class="mw-redirect" title="User talk:ABC101090">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:Obama_cabinet#c-ABC101090-2008-12-07T01:06:00.000Z-75.180.235.209-2008-12-06T23:44:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:06, 7 December 2008 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-ABC101090-2008-12-07T01:06:00.000Z-75.180.235.209-2008-12-06T23:44:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-ABC101090-2008-12-07T01:06:00.000Z-75.180.235.209-2008-12-06T23:44:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-ABC101090-2008-12-07T01:08:00.000Z-ABC101090-2008-12-07T01:06:00.000Z"></span>Solved. I added TBD in that section. Now it can be seen.<a href="/wiki/User:ABC101090" class="mw-redirect" title="User:ABC101090">ABC101090</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:ABC101090" class="mw-redirect" title="User talk:ABC101090">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:Obama_cabinet#c-ABC101090-2008-12-07T01:08:00.000Z-ABC101090-2008-12-07T01:06:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:08, 7 December 2008 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-ABC101090-2008-12-07T01:08:00.000Z-ABC101090-2008-12-07T01:06:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-ABC101090-2008-12-07T01:08:00.000Z-ABC101090-2008-12-07T01:06:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-ABC101090-2008-12-07T16:47:00.000Z-ABC101090-2008-12-07T01:08:00.000Z"></span>Please keep shinseki hidden until OFFICIAL announcement.<a href="/wiki/User:ABC101090" class="mw-redirect" title="User:ABC101090">ABC101090</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:ABC101090" class="mw-redirect" title="User talk:ABC101090">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:Obama_cabinet#c-ABC101090-2008-12-07T16:47:00.000Z-ABC101090-2008-12-07T01:08:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:47, 7 December 2008 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-ABC101090-2008-12-07T16:47:00.000Z-ABC101090-2008-12-07T01:08:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-ABC101090-2008-12-07T16:47:00.000Z-ABC101090-2008-12-07T01:08:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Shaun_Donovan" data-mw-thread-id="h-Shaun_Donovan-2008-12-13T12:12:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Shaun_Donovan-2008-12-13T12:12:00.000Z"></span>Shaun Donovan<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Shaun_Donovan-2008-12-13T12:12:00.000Z"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Template_talk:Obama_cabinet&action=edit&section=12" title="Edit section: Shaun Donovan"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Cassandro-2008-12-13T12:12:00.000Z-Shaun_Donovan"></span>Pres.-elect Obama announced him today as new Sec. of HUD. Shouldn't it be in the template? <a href="/wiki/User:Cassandro" title="User:Cassandro">Cassandro</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Cassandro" title="User talk:Cassandro">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:Obama_cabinet#c-Cassandro-2008-12-13T12:12:00.000Z-Shaun_Donovan" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">12:12, 13 December 2008 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Cassandro-2008-12-13T12:12:00.000Z-Shaun_Donovan"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Cassandro-2008-12-13T12:12:00.000Z-Shaun_Donovan"></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Education_Sec." data-mw-thread-id="h-Education_Sec.-2008-12-16T18:12:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Education_Sec.-2008-12-16T18:12:00.000Z"></span>Education Sec.<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Education_Sec.-2008-12-16T18:12:00.000Z"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Template_talk:Obama_cabinet&action=edit&section=13" title="Edit section: Education Sec."><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Briaboru-2008-12-16T18:12:00.000Z-Education_Sec."></span>The Prresident-Elect chose Arne Duncan as Education Sec. --<a href="/wiki/User:Briaboru" title="User:Briaboru">Briaboru</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Briaboru" title="User talk:Briaboru">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:Obama_cabinet#c-Briaboru-2008-12-16T18:12:00.000Z-Education_Sec." class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:12, 16 December 2008 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Briaboru-2008-12-16T18:12:00.000Z-Education_Sec."><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Briaboru-2008-12-16T18:12:00.000Z-Education_Sec."></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Official_announcement_and_WP:V" data-mw-thread-id="h-Official_announcement_and_WP:V-2008-12-17T23:16:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Official_announcement_and_WP:V-2008-12-17T23:16:00.000Z"></span>Official announcement and <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:V" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:V">WP:V</a><span data-mw-comment-end="h-Official_announcement_and_WP:V-2008-12-17T23:16:00.000Z"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Template_talk:Obama_cabinet&action=edit&section=14" title="Edit section: Official announcement and WP:V"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Chaser-2008-12-17T23:16:00.000Z-Official_announcement_and_WP:V"></span>Various folks have been removing cabinet picks that the press has reported on but that the campaign has not yet officially announced <a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Template:Obama_cabinet&diff=258549188&oldid=258548608">[10]</a> <a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Template:Obama_cabinet&diff=257229714&oldid=257227365">[11]</a>. I think this is improper. The standard for inclusion of information is <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:V" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:V">verifiability</a>, as for everything else on Wikipedia. If we were going by "official" nominations, then this template should be empty despite the announcements. Obama can't submit <i>any</i> names to the Senate until he takes office (not that that will stop them from holding hearings so as to get the cabinet confirmed quickly). As to Lahood, there is plenty of verification that he is Obama's Transportation nominee <a rel="nofollow" class="external autonumber" href="http://voices.washingtonpost.com/the-trail/2008/12/17/lahood_accepts_transportation.html?hpid=topnews">[12]</a> <a rel="nofollow" class="external autonumber" href="http://www.usatoday.com/news/politics/2008-12-17-lahood_N.htm">[13]</a> <a rel="nofollow" class="external autonumber" href="http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/nation/politics/bal-transportation1217,0,5403077.story">[14]</a>.--<a href="/wiki/User:Chaser" title="User:Chaser">chaser</a> - <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Chaser" title="User talk:Chaser">t</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:Obama_cabinet#c-Chaser-2008-12-17T23:16:00.000Z-Official_announcement_and_WP:V" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:16, 17 December 2008 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Chaser-2008-12-17T23:16:00.000Z-Official_announcement_and_WP:V"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Chaser-2008-12-17T23:16:00.000Z-Official_announcement_and_WP:V"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-ABC101090-2008-12-18T17:06:00.000Z-Chaser-2008-12-17T23:16:00.000Z"></span>The best source, in my opinion, is Obama`s web page. Although it is clear Obama can not at present nominate anyone, it is clear that he intends to nominate them once he is president. Therefore the template can include also those that are not "official", but on the condition that the are announced by Obama. This is my opinion. <a href="/wiki/User:ABC101090" class="mw-redirect" title="User:ABC101090">ABC101090</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:ABC101090" class="mw-redirect" title="User talk:ABC101090">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:Obama_cabinet#c-ABC101090-2008-12-18T17:06:00.000Z-Chaser-2008-12-17T23:16:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:06, 18 December 2008 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-ABC101090-2008-12-18T17:06:00.000Z-Chaser-2008-12-17T23:16:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-ABC101090-2008-12-18T17:06:00.000Z-Chaser-2008-12-17T23:16:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Chaser-2008-12-18T17:19:00.000Z-ABC101090-2008-12-18T17:06:00.000Z"></span>I think the problem is that the policy clashes with that. WP:V says that material that doesn't cite a reliable source can be challenged and removed. The logical corollary (which isn't explicitly stated) is that material that does cite a reliable source can stay, provided it's notable, etc. In other words, whatever is good enough for the major press is good enough for us. In this case, we don't use citations in templates, so the only question is whether reliable sources report that Lahood is Obama's nominee. Here, Democratic and Republican officials have confirmed to multiple news sources that LaHood is Obama's pick and will be announced "in the coming days" <a rel="nofollow" class="external autonumber" href="http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/chi-lahooddec18,0,4429068.story">[15]</a>. According to <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:RS" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:RS">our guideline on sources</a>, the press is a reliable source for this information, even if in this specific case it is not the best source.--<a href="/wiki/User:Chaser" title="User:Chaser">chaser</a> - <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Chaser" title="User talk:Chaser">t</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:Obama_cabinet#c-Chaser-2008-12-18T17:19:00.000Z-ABC101090-2008-12-18T17:06:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:19, 18 December 2008 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Chaser-2008-12-18T17:19:00.000Z-ABC101090-2008-12-18T17:06:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Chaser-2008-12-18T17:19:00.000Z-ABC101090-2008-12-18T17:06:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-ABC101090-2008-12-18T17:30:00.000Z-Chaser-2008-12-18T17:19:00.000Z"></span>I believe that those names are to be considered speculation, because nobody in the Obama team has said it will be so. I think WP:V and WP:RS should changed to mean only the most important news agencies and newspapers, because they have a better chance, I believe, of getting it right. The only news agencies I tend to trust are those that are internationally recognised as "good". <a href="/wiki/User:ABC101090" class="mw-redirect" title="User:ABC101090">ABC101090</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:ABC101090" class="mw-redirect" title="User talk:ABC101090">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:Obama_cabinet#c-ABC101090-2008-12-18T17:30:00.000Z-Chaser-2008-12-18T17:19:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:30, 18 December 2008 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-ABC101090-2008-12-18T17:30:00.000Z-Chaser-2008-12-18T17:19:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-ABC101090-2008-12-18T17:30:00.000Z-Chaser-2008-12-18T17:19:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5jHoEcRA7KhrK-fdVY36m-xIQeBOQD95511T80"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Chaser-2008-12-18T18:11:00.000Z-ABC101090-2008-12-18T17:30:00.000Z"></span>The Associated Press</a> and <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/12/18/transition.wrap/">CNN</a> have already reported on this. In any case, if you think we should change a policy or guideline, then they each have discussion pages for that purpose. But until they're changed, we follow them as written.--<a href="/wiki/User:Chaser" title="User:Chaser">chaser</a> - <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Chaser" title="User talk:Chaser">t</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:Obama_cabinet#c-Chaser-2008-12-18T18:11:00.000Z-ABC101090-2008-12-18T17:30:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:11, 18 December 2008 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Chaser-2008-12-18T18:11:00.000Z-ABC101090-2008-12-18T17:30:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Chaser-2008-12-18T18:11:00.000Z-ABC101090-2008-12-18T17:30:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Duplicated_template?" data-mw-thread-id="h-Duplicated_template?-2008-12-26T20:20:00.000Z"><span id="Duplicated_template.3F"></span><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Duplicated_template?-2008-12-26T20:20:00.000Z"></span>Duplicated template?<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Duplicated_template?-2008-12-26T20:20:00.000Z"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Template_talk:Obama_cabinet&action=edit&section=15" title="Edit section: Duplicated template?"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Psantora-2008-12-26T20:20:00.000Z-Duplicated_template?"></span>Aside from pointing out which positions are cabinet-level vs. actually being in the cabinet (which can easily be amended), doesn't this template duplicate <a href="/wiki/Template:Obama_Administration_personnel" title="Template:Obama Administration personnel">Template:Obama Administration personnel</a> or at least the child template <a href="/wiki/Template:Obama_personnel,_Cabinet-level_child-template" title="Template:Obama personnel, Cabinet-level child-template">Template:Obama personnel, Cabinet-level child-template</a>? ~ <a href="/wiki/User:Psantora" title="User:Psantora">Paul</a><small><sup><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Psantora" title="User talk:Psantora">T</a><span class="plainlinks"><a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Psantora&action=edit">+</a></span></sup>/<sub><a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Psantora" title="Special:Contributions/Psantora">C</a></sub></small> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:Obama_cabinet#c-Psantora-2008-12-26T20:20:00.000Z-Duplicated_template?" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:20, 26 December 2008 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Psantora-2008-12-26T20:20:00.000Z-Duplicated_template?"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Psantora-2008-12-26T20:20:00.000Z-Duplicated_template?"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Nmajdan-2008-12-26T21:03:00.000Z-Psantora-2008-12-26T20:20:00.000Z"></span>This template follows the scheme set forth by its predecessors': <a href="/w/index.php?title=Category:United_States_Executive_Cabinet_by_President_navigational_boxes&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category:United States Executive Cabinet by President navigational boxes (page does not exist)">Category:United States Executive Cabinet by President navigational boxes</a>. I think <a href="/wiki/Template:Obama_personnel,_Cabinet-level_child-template" title="Template:Obama personnel, Cabinet-level child-template">Template:Obama personnel, Cabinet-level child-template</a> should be deleted while the other is a more in depth listing suitable for articles specifically about the Obama administration.↔<a href="/wiki/User:Nmajdan" title="User:Nmajdan"><span style="font:bold 11px Verdana,sans-serif;">NMajdan</span></a>•<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Nmajdan" title="User talk:Nmajdan"><span style="font:9px Verdana,sans-serif; color:#000;">talk</span></a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:Obama_cabinet#c-Nmajdan-2008-12-26T21:03:00.000Z-Psantora-2008-12-26T20:20:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:03, 26 December 2008 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Nmajdan-2008-12-26T21:03:00.000Z-Psantora-2008-12-26T20:20:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Nmajdan-2008-12-26T21:03:00.000Z-Psantora-2008-12-26T20:20:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Psantora-2008-12-26T21:38:00.000Z-Nmajdan-2008-12-26T21:03:00.000Z"></span>The child template is used in the administration personnel template. As it stands right now, since noone has been replaced and there is one entry per position, this template looks awkward. Seriously, which one looks better?</dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="navbox-styles"><link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1129693374"><style data-mw-deduplicate="TemplateStyles:r1236075235">.mw-parser-output .navbox{box-sizing:border-box;border:1px solid #a2a9b1;width:100%;clear:both;font-size:88%;text-align:center;padding:1px;margin:1em auto 0}.mw-parser-output .navbox .navbox{margin-top:0}.mw-parser-output .navbox+.navbox,.mw-parser-output .navbox+.navbox-styles+.navbox{margin-top:-1px}.mw-parser-output .navbox-inner,.mw-parser-output .navbox-subgroup{width:100%}.mw-parser-output .navbox-group,.mw-parser-output .navbox-title,.mw-parser-output .navbox-abovebelow{padding:0.25em 1em;line-height:1.5em;text-align:center}.mw-parser-output .navbox-group{white-space:nowrap;text-align:right}.mw-parser-output .navbox,.mw-parser-output .navbox-subgroup{background-color:#fdfdfd}.mw-parser-output .navbox-list{line-height:1.5em;border-color:#fdfdfd}.mw-parser-output .navbox-list-with-group{text-align:left;border-left-width:2px;border-left-style:solid}.mw-parser-output tr+tr>.navbox-abovebelow,.mw-parser-output tr+tr>.navbox-group,.mw-parser-output tr+tr>.navbox-image,.mw-parser-output tr+tr>.navbox-list{border-top:2px solid #fdfdfd}.mw-parser-output .navbox-title{background-color:#ccf}.mw-parser-output .navbox-abovebelow,.mw-parser-output .navbox-group,.mw-parser-output .navbox-subgroup .navbox-title{background-color:#ddf}.mw-parser-output .navbox-subgroup .navbox-group,.mw-parser-output .navbox-subgroup .navbox-abovebelow{background-color:#e6e6ff}.mw-parser-output .navbox-even{background-color:#f7f7f7}.mw-parser-output .navbox-odd{background-color:transparent}.mw-parser-output .navbox .hlist td dl,.mw-parser-output .navbox .hlist td ol,.mw-parser-output .navbox .hlist td ul,.mw-parser-output .navbox td.hlist dl,.mw-parser-output .navbox td.hlist ol,.mw-parser-output .navbox td.hlist ul{padding:0.125em 0}.mw-parser-output .navbox .navbar{display:block;font-size:100%}.mw-parser-output .navbox-title .navbar{float:left;text-align:left;margin-right:0.5em}body.skin--responsive .mw-parser-output .navbox-image img{max-width:none!important}@media print{body.ns-0 .mw-parser-output .navbox{display:none!important}}</style><style data-mw-deduplicate="TemplateStyles:r1236090951">.mw-parser-output .hatnote{font-style:italic}.mw-parser-output div.hatnote{padding-left:1.6em;margin-bottom:0.5em}.mw-parser-output .hatnote i{font-style:normal}.mw-parser-output .hatnote+link+.hatnote{margin-top:-0.5em}@media print{body.ns-0 .mw-parser-output .hatnote{display:none!important}}</style></div><div role="navigation" class="navbox" aria-labelledby="Cabinet_of_President_Barack_Obama_(2009–2017)" style="padding:3px"><table class="nowraplinks hlist mw-collapsible expanded navbox-inner" style="border-spacing:0;background:transparent;color:inherit"><tbody><tr><th scope="col" class="navbox-title" colspan="2"><link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1129693374"><style data-mw-deduplicate="TemplateStyles:r1239400231">.mw-parser-output .navbar{display:inline;font-size:88%;font-weight:normal}.mw-parser-output .navbar-collapse{float:left;text-align:left}.mw-parser-output .navbar-boxtext{word-spacing:0}.mw-parser-output .navbar ul{display:inline-block;white-space:nowrap;line-height:inherit}.mw-parser-output .navbar-brackets::before{margin-right:-0.125em;content:"[ "}.mw-parser-output .navbar-brackets::after{margin-left:-0.125em;content:" ]"}.mw-parser-output .navbar li{word-spacing:-0.125em}.mw-parser-output .navbar a>span,.mw-parser-output .navbar a>abbr{text-decoration:inherit}.mw-parser-output .navbar-mini abbr{font-variant:small-caps;border-bottom:none;text-decoration:none;cursor:inherit}.mw-parser-output .navbar-ct-full{font-size:114%;margin:0 7em}.mw-parser-output .navbar-ct-mini{font-size:114%;margin:0 4em}html.skin-theme-clientpref-night .mw-parser-output .navbar li a abbr{color:var(--color-base)!important}@media(prefers-color-scheme:dark){html.skin-theme-clientpref-os .mw-parser-output .navbar li a abbr{color:var(--color-base)!important}}@media print{.mw-parser-output .navbar{display:none!important}}</style><div class="navbar plainlinks hlist navbar-mini"><ul><li class="nv-view"><a href="/wiki/Template:Obama_cabinet" title="Template:Obama cabinet"><abbr title="View this template">v</abbr></a></li><li class="nv-talk"><a class="mw-selflink selflink"><abbr title="Discuss this template">t</abbr></a></li><li class="nv-edit"><a href="/wiki/Special:EditPage/Template:Obama_cabinet" title="Special:EditPage/Template:Obama cabinet"><abbr title="Edit this template">e</abbr></a></li></ul></div><div id="Cabinet_of_President_Barack_Obama_(2009–2017)" style="font-size:114%;margin:0 4em"><a href="/wiki/Cabinet_of_the_United_States" title="Cabinet of the United States">Cabinet</a> of <a href="/wiki/President_of_the_United_States" title="President of the United States">President</a> <a href="/wiki/Barack_Obama" title="Barack Obama">Barack Obama</a> (2009–2017)</div></th></tr><tr><td colspan="2" class="navbox-list navbox-odd" style="width:100%;padding:0"><div style="padding:0 0.25em"></div><table class="nowraplinks mw-collapsible expanded navbox-subgroup" style="border-spacing:0"><tbody><tr><th scope="col" class="navbox-title" colspan="3"><div id="Cabinet" style="font-size:114%;margin:0 4em">Cabinet</div></th></tr><tr><th scope="row" class="navbox-group" style="width:1%"><a href="/wiki/Vice_President_of_the_United_States" title="Vice President of the United States">Vice President</a></th><td class="navbox-list-with-group navbox-list navbox-odd" style="width:100%;padding:0"><div style="padding:0 0.25em"> <ul><li><span class="nowrap"><a href="/wiki/Joe_Biden" title="Joe Biden">Joe Biden</a> (2009–2017)</span></li></ul> </div></td><td class="noviewer navbox-image" rowspan="16" style="width:1px;padding:0 0 0 2px"><div><span typeof="mw:File"><span><img alt="" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/55/President_Barack_Obama%2C_2012_portrait_crop.jpg/100px-President_Barack_Obama%2C_2012_portrait_crop.jpg" decoding="async" width="100" height="130" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/55/President_Barack_Obama%2C_2012_portrait_crop.jpg/150px-President_Barack_Obama%2C_2012_portrait_crop.jpg 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/55/President_Barack_Obama%2C_2012_portrait_crop.jpg/200px-President_Barack_Obama%2C_2012_portrait_crop.jpg 2x" data-file-width="1338" data-file-height="1739"/></span></span></div></td></tr><tr><th scope="row" class="navbox-group" style="width:1%"><a href="/wiki/United_States_Secretary_of_State" title="United States Secretary of State">Secretary of State</a></th><td class="navbox-list-with-group navbox-list navbox-even" style="width:100%;padding:0"><div style="padding:0 0.25em"> <ul><li><span class="nowrap"><a href="/wiki/Hillary_Clinton" title="Hillary Clinton">Hillary Clinton</a> (2009–2013)</span> <ul><li><span class="nowrap"><a href="/wiki/Hillary_Clinton%27s_tenure_as_Secretary_of_State" title="Hillary Clinton's tenure as Secretary of State">tenure</a></span></li></ul></li> <li><span class="nowrap"><a href="/wiki/John_Kerry" title="John Kerry">John Kerry</a> (2013–2017)</span></li></ul> </div></td></tr><tr><th scope="row" class="navbox-group" style="width:1%"><a href="/wiki/United_States_Secretary_of_the_Treasury" title="United States Secretary of the Treasury">Secretary of the Treasury</a></th><td class="navbox-list-with-group navbox-list navbox-odd" style="width:100%;padding:0"><div style="padding:0 0.25em"> <ul><li><span class="nowrap"><a href="/wiki/Timothy_Geithner" title="Timothy Geithner">Timothy Geithner</a> (2009–2013)</span></li> <li><span class="nowrap"><a href="/wiki/Jack_Lew" title="Jack Lew">Jack Lew</a> (2013–2017)</span></li></ul> </div></td></tr><tr><th scope="row" class="navbox-group" style="width:1%"><a href="/wiki/United_States_Secretary_of_Defense" title="United States Secretary of Defense">Secretary of Defense</a></th><td class="navbox-list-with-group navbox-list navbox-even" style="width:100%;padding:0"><div style="padding:0 0.25em"> <ul><li><span class="nowrap"><a href="/wiki/Robert_Gates" title="Robert Gates">Robert Gates</a> (2009–2011)</span></li> <li><span class="nowrap"><a href="/wiki/Leon_Panetta" title="Leon Panetta">Leon Panetta</a> (2011–2013)</span></li> <li><span class="nowrap"><a href="/wiki/Chuck_Hagel" title="Chuck Hagel">Chuck Hagel</a> (2013–2015)</span></li> <li><span class="nowrap"><a href="/wiki/Ash_Carter" title="Ash Carter">Ash Carter</a> (2015–2017)</span></li></ul> </div></td></tr><tr><th scope="row" class="navbox-group" style="width:1%"><a href="/wiki/United_States_Attorney_General" title="United States Attorney General">Attorney General</a></th><td class="navbox-list-with-group navbox-list navbox-odd" style="width:100%;padding:0"><div style="padding:0 0.25em"> <ul><li><span class="nowrap"><a href="/wiki/Eric_Holder" title="Eric Holder">Eric Holder</a> (2009–2015)</span></li> <li><span class="nowrap"><a href="/wiki/Loretta_Lynch" title="Loretta Lynch">Loretta Lynch</a> (2015–2017)</span></li></ul> </div></td></tr><tr><th scope="row" class="navbox-group" style="width:1%"><a href="/wiki/United_States_Secretary_of_the_Interior" title="United States Secretary of the Interior">Secretary of the Interior</a></th><td class="navbox-list-with-group navbox-list navbox-even" style="width:100%;padding:0"><div style="padding:0 0.25em"> <ul><li><span class="nowrap"><a href="/wiki/Ken_Salazar" title="Ken Salazar">Ken Salazar</a> (2009–2013)</span></li> <li><span class="nowrap"><a href="/wiki/Sally_Jewell" title="Sally Jewell">Sally Jewell</a> (2013–2017)</span></li></ul> </div></td></tr><tr><th scope="row" class="navbox-group" style="width:1%"><a href="/wiki/United_States_Secretary_of_Agriculture" title="United States Secretary of Agriculture">Secretary of Agriculture</a></th><td class="navbox-list-with-group navbox-list navbox-odd" style="width:100%;padding:0"><div style="padding:0 0.25em"> <ul><li><span class="nowrap"><a href="/wiki/Tom_Vilsack" title="Tom Vilsack">Tom Vilsack</a> (2009–2017)</span></li></ul> </div></td></tr><tr><th scope="row" class="navbox-group" style="width:1%"><a href="/wiki/United_States_Secretary_of_Commerce" title="United States Secretary of Commerce">Secretary of Commerce</a></th><td class="navbox-list-with-group navbox-list navbox-even" style="width:100%;padding:0"><div style="padding:0 0.25em"> <ul><li><span class="nowrap"><a href="/wiki/Gary_Locke" title="Gary Locke">Gary Locke</a> (2009–2011)</span></li> <li><span class="nowrap"><a href="/wiki/John_Bryson" title="John Bryson">John Bryson</a> (2011–2012)</span></li> <li><span class="nowrap"><a href="/wiki/Penny_Pritzker" title="Penny Pritzker">Penny Pritzker</a> (2013–2017)</span></li></ul> </div></td></tr><tr><th scope="row" class="navbox-group" style="width:1%"><a href="/wiki/United_States_Secretary_of_Labor" title="United States Secretary of Labor">Secretary of Labor</a></th><td class="navbox-list-with-group navbox-list navbox-odd" style="width:100%;padding:0"><div style="padding:0 0.25em"> <ul><li><span class="nowrap"><a href="/wiki/Hilda_Solis" title="Hilda Solis">Hilda Solis</a> (2009–2013)</span></li> <li><span class="nowrap"><a href="/wiki/Tom_Perez" title="Tom Perez">Tom Perez</a> (2013–2017)</span></li></ul> </div></td></tr><tr><th scope="row" class="navbox-group" style="width:1%"><a href="/wiki/United_States_Secretary_of_Health_and_Human_Services" title="United States Secretary of Health and Human Services">Secretary of Health and Human Services</a></th><td class="navbox-list-with-group navbox-list navbox-even" style="width:100%;padding:0"><div style="padding:0 0.25em"> <ul><li><span class="nowrap"><a href="/wiki/Kathleen_Sebelius" title="Kathleen Sebelius">Kathleen Sebelius</a> (2009–2014)</span></li> <li><span class="nowrap"><a href="/wiki/Sylvia_Mathews_Burwell" title="Sylvia Mathews Burwell">Sylvia Mathews Burwell</a> (2014–2017)</span></li></ul> </div></td></tr><tr><th scope="row" class="navbox-group" style="width:1%"><a href="/wiki/United_States_Secretary_of_Housing_and_Urban_Development" title="United States Secretary of Housing and Urban Development">Secretary of Housing and Urban Development</a></th><td class="navbox-list-with-group navbox-list navbox-odd" style="width:100%;padding:0"><div style="padding:0 0.25em"> <ul><li><span class="nowrap"><a href="/wiki/Shaun_Donovan" title="Shaun Donovan">Shaun Donovan</a> (2009–2014)</span></li> <li><span class="nowrap"><a href="/wiki/Julian_Castro" title="Julian Castro">Julian Castro</a> (2014–2017)</span></li></ul> </div></td></tr><tr><th scope="row" class="navbox-group" style="width:1%"><a href="/wiki/United_States_Secretary_of_Transportation" title="United States Secretary of Transportation">Secretary of Transportation</a></th><td class="navbox-list-with-group navbox-list navbox-even" style="width:100%;padding:0"><div style="padding:0 0.25em"> <ul><li><span class="nowrap"><a href="/wiki/Ray_LaHood" title="Ray LaHood">Ray LaHood</a> (2009–2013)</span></li> <li><span class="nowrap"><a href="/wiki/Anthony_Foxx" title="Anthony Foxx">Anthony Foxx</a> (2013–2017)</span></li></ul> </div></td></tr><tr><th scope="row" class="navbox-group" style="width:1%"><a href="/wiki/United_States_Secretary_of_Energy" title="United States Secretary of Energy">Secretary of Energy</a></th><td class="navbox-list-with-group navbox-list navbox-odd" style="width:100%;padding:0"><div style="padding:0 0.25em"> <ul><li><span class="nowrap"><a href="/wiki/Steven_Chu" title="Steven Chu">Steven Chu</a> (2009–2013)</span></li> <li><span class="nowrap"><a href="/wiki/Ernest_Moniz" title="Ernest Moniz">Ernest Moniz</a> (2013–2017)</span></li></ul> </div></td></tr><tr><th scope="row" class="navbox-group" style="width:1%"><a href="/wiki/United_States_Secretary_of_Education" title="United States Secretary of Education">Secretary of Education</a></th><td class="navbox-list-with-group navbox-list navbox-even" style="width:100%;padding:0"><div style="padding:0 0.25em"> <ul><li><span class="nowrap"><a href="/wiki/Arne_Duncan" title="Arne Duncan">Arne Duncan</a> (2009–2016)</span></li> <li><span class="nowrap"><a href="/wiki/John_King_Jr." title="John King Jr.">John King Jr.</a> (2016–2017)</span></li></ul> </div></td></tr><tr><th scope="row" class="navbox-group" style="width:1%"><a href="/wiki/United_States_Secretary_of_Veterans_Affairs" title="United States Secretary of Veterans Affairs">Secretary of Veterans Affairs</a></th><td class="navbox-list-with-group navbox-list navbox-odd" style="width:100%;padding:0"><div style="padding:0 0.25em"> <ul><li><span class="nowrap"><a href="/wiki/Eric_Shinseki" title="Eric Shinseki">Eric Shinseki</a> (2009–2014)</span></li> <li><span class="nowrap"><a href="/wiki/Bob_McDonald_(businessman)" title="Bob McDonald (businessman)">Bob McDonald</a> (2014–2017)</span></li></ul> </div></td></tr><tr><th scope="row" class="navbox-group" style="width:1%"><a href="/wiki/United_States_Secretary_of_Homeland_Security" title="United States Secretary of Homeland Security">Secretary of Homeland Security</a></th><td class="navbox-list-with-group navbox-list navbox-even" style="width:100%;padding:0"><div style="padding:0 0.25em"> <ul><li><span class="nowrap"><a href="/wiki/Janet_Napolitano" title="Janet Napolitano">Janet Napolitano</a> (2009–2013)</span></li> <li><span class="nowrap"><a href="/wiki/Jeh_Johnson" title="Jeh Johnson">Jeh Johnson</a> (2013–2017)</span></li></ul> </div></td></tr></tbody></table><div></div></td></tr><tr><td colspan="2" class="navbox-list navbox-odd" style="width:100%;padding:0"><div style="padding:0 0.25em"></div><table class="nowraplinks mw-collapsible expanded navbox-subgroup" style="border-spacing:0"><tbody><tr><th scope="col" class="navbox-title" colspan="3"><div id="Cabinet-level" style="font-size:114%;margin:0 4em">Cabinet-level</div></th></tr><tr><th scope="row" class="navbox-group" style="width:1%"><a href="/wiki/Administrator_of_the_Environmental_Protection_Agency" title="Administrator of the Environmental Protection Agency">Administrator of the Environmental Protection Agency</a></th><td class="navbox-list-with-group navbox-list navbox-odd" style="width:100%;padding:0"><div style="padding:0 0.25em"> <ul><li><span class="nowrap"><a href="/wiki/Lisa_P._Jackson" title="Lisa P. Jackson">Lisa P. Jackson</a> (2009–2013)</span></li> <li><span class="nowrap"><a href="/wiki/Gina_McCarthy" title="Gina McCarthy">Gina McCarthy</a> (2013–2017)</span></li></ul> </div></td><td class="noviewer navbox-image" rowspan="7" style="width:1px;padding:0 0 0 2px"><div><span typeof="mw:File"><span><img alt="" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/5e/US-WhiteHouse-Logo.svg/100px-US-WhiteHouse-Logo.svg.png" decoding="async" width="100" height="70" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/5e/US-WhiteHouse-Logo.svg/150px-US-WhiteHouse-Logo.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/5e/US-WhiteHouse-Logo.svg/200px-US-WhiteHouse-Logo.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="83" data-file-height="58"/></span></span></div></td></tr><tr><th scope="row" class="navbox-group" style="width:1%"><a href="/wiki/Office_of_Management_and_Budget" title="Office of Management and Budget">Director of the Office of Management and Budget</a></th><td class="navbox-list-with-group navbox-list navbox-even" style="width:100%;padding:0"><div style="padding:0 0.25em"> <ul><li><span class="nowrap"><a href="/wiki/Peter_R._Orszag" title="Peter R. Orszag">Peter R. Orszag</a> (2009–2010)</span></li> <li><span class="nowrap"><a href="/wiki/Jack_Lew" title="Jack Lew">Jack Lew</a> (2010–2012)</span></li> <li><span class="nowrap"><a href="/wiki/Sylvia_Mathews_Burwell" title="Sylvia Mathews Burwell">Sylvia Mathews Burwell</a> (2013–2014)</span></li> <li><span class="nowrap"><a href="/wiki/Shaun_Donovan" title="Shaun Donovan">Shaun Donovan</a> (2014–2017)</span></li></ul> </div></td></tr><tr><th scope="row" class="navbox-group" style="width:1%"><a href="/wiki/Office_of_the_United_States_Trade_Representative" title="Office of the United States Trade Representative">Trade Representative</a></th><td class="navbox-list-with-group navbox-list navbox-odd" style="width:100%;padding:0"><div style="padding:0 0.25em"> <ul><li><span class="nowrap"><a href="/wiki/Ron_Kirk" title="Ron Kirk">Ron Kirk</a> (2009–2013)</span></li> <li><span class="nowrap"><a href="/wiki/Michael_Froman" title="Michael Froman">Michael Froman</a> (2013–2017)</span></li></ul> </div></td></tr><tr><th scope="row" class="navbox-group" style="width:1%"><a href="/wiki/List_of_ambassadors_of_the_United_States_to_the_United_Nations" title="List of ambassadors of the United States to the United Nations">Ambassador to the United Nations</a></th><td class="navbox-list-with-group navbox-list navbox-even" style="width:100%;padding:0"><div style="padding:0 0.25em"> <ul><li><span class="nowrap"><a href="/wiki/Susan_Rice" title="Susan Rice">Susan Rice</a> (2009–2013)</span></li> <li><span class="nowrap"><a href="/wiki/Samantha_Power" title="Samantha Power">Samantha Power</a> (2013–2017)</span></li></ul> </div></td></tr><tr><th scope="row" class="navbox-group" style="width:1%"><a href="/wiki/Council_of_Economic_Advisers" title="Council of Economic Advisers">Chair of the Council of Economic Advisers</a></th><td class="navbox-list-with-group navbox-list navbox-odd" style="width:100%;padding:0"><div style="padding:0 0.25em"> <ul><li><span class="nowrap"><a href="/wiki/Christina_Romer" title="Christina Romer">Christina Romer</a> (2009–2010)</span></li> <li><span class="nowrap"><a href="/wiki/Austan_Goolsbee" title="Austan Goolsbee">Austan Goolsbee</a> (2010–2011)</span></li> <li><span class="nowrap"><a href="/wiki/Alan_Krueger" title="Alan Krueger">Alan Krueger</a> (2011–2013)</span></li> <li><span class="nowrap"><a href="/wiki/Jason_Furman" title="Jason Furman">Jason Furman</a> (2013–2017)</span></li></ul> </div></td></tr><tr><th scope="row" class="navbox-group" style="width:1%"><a href="/wiki/Administrator_of_the_Small_Business_Administration" title="Administrator of the Small Business Administration">Administrator of the Small Business Administration</a></th><td class="navbox-list-with-group navbox-list navbox-even" style="width:100%;padding:0"><div style="padding:0 0.25em"> <ul><li><span class="nowrap"><a href="/wiki/Karen_Mills" title="Karen Mills">Karen Mills</a> (2012–2013)*</span></li> <li><span class="nowrap"><a href="/wiki/Maria_Contreras-Sweet" title="Maria Contreras-Sweet">Maria Contreras-Sweet</a> (2014–2017)</span></li></ul> </div></td></tr><tr><th scope="row" class="navbox-group" style="width:1%"><a href="/wiki/White_House_Chief_of_Staff" title="White House Chief of Staff">White House Chief of Staff</a></th><td class="navbox-list-with-group navbox-list navbox-odd" style="width:100%;padding:0"><div style="padding:0 0.25em"> <ul><li><span class="nowrap"><a href="/wiki/Rahm_Emanuel" title="Rahm Emanuel">Rahm Emanuel</a> (2009–2010)</span></li> <li><span class="nowrap"><a href="/wiki/William_M._Daley" title="William M. Daley">William M. Daley</a> (2011–2012)</span></li> <li><span class="nowrap"><a href="/wiki/Jack_Lew" title="Jack Lew">Jack Lew</a> (2012–2013)</span></li> <li><span class="nowrap"><a href="/wiki/Denis_McDonough" title="Denis McDonough">Denis McDonough</a> (2013–2017)</span></li></ul> </div></td></tr></tbody></table><div></div></td></tr><tr><td class="navbox-abovebelow" colspan="2"><div>* took office in 2009, raised to cabinet-rank in 2012<br/><div role="note" class="hatnote navigation-not-searchable">See also: <a href="/wiki/Confirmations_of_Barack_Obama%27s_Cabinet" class="mw-redirect" title="Confirmations of Barack Obama's Cabinet">Confirmations of Barack Obama's Cabinet</a></div></div></td></tr></tbody></table></div> <div class="navbox-styles"><link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1129693374"><link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1236075235"></div><div role="navigation" class="navbox" aria-labelledby="Cabinet_of_Barack_Obama" style="text-align:left;padding:3px"><table class="nowraplinks mw-collapsible expanded navbox-inner" style="border-spacing:0;background:transparent;color:inherit"><tbody><tr><th scope="col" class="navbox-title" colspan="2"><link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1129693374"><link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1239400231"><div class="navbar plainlinks hlist navbar-mini"><ul><li class="nv-view"><a href="/wiki/Template:Obama_personnel,_Cabinet-level_child-template" title="Template:Obama personnel, Cabinet-level child-template"><abbr title="View this template">v</abbr></a></li><li class="nv-talk"><a href="/wiki/Template_talk:Obama_personnel,_Cabinet-level_child-template" title="Template talk:Obama personnel, Cabinet-level child-template"><abbr title="Discuss this template">t</abbr></a></li><li class="nv-edit"><a href="/wiki/Special:EditPage/Template:Obama_personnel,_Cabinet-level_child-template" title="Special:EditPage/Template:Obama personnel, Cabinet-level child-template"><abbr title="Edit this template">e</abbr></a></li></ul></div><div id="Cabinet_of_Barack_Obama" style="font-size:114%;margin:0 4em"><a href="/wiki/Cabinet_of_the_United_States" title="Cabinet of the United States">Cabinet</a> of <a href="/wiki/Barack_Obama" title="Barack Obama">Barack Obama</a></div></th></tr><tr><td colspan="2" class="navbox-list navbox-odd" style="width:100%;padding:0;padding:0"><div style="padding:0 0.25em"><div><table style="font-size:100%; width:100%; border-collapse:collapse;"><tbody><tr style="vertical-align:top"><td class="navbox-abovebelow" style="font-weight:bold; text-align:center; border-left:2px #fafafa solid; border-right:2px #fafafa solid;;width:18%"> Office</td><td class="navbox-abovebelow" style="font-weight:bold; text-align:center; border-left:2px #fafafa solid; border-right:2px #fafafa solid;;width:8%"> Name</td><td class="navbox-abovebelow" style="font-weight:bold; text-align:center; border-left:2px #fafafa solid; border-right:2px #fafafa solid;;width:8%"> Term</td><td class="navbox-abovebelow" style="font-weight:bold; text-align:center; border-left:2px #fafafa solid; border-right:2px #fafafa solid;;width:18%"> Office</td><td class="navbox-abovebelow" style="font-weight:bold; text-align:center; border-left:2px #fafafa solid; border-right:2px #fafafa solid;;width:8%"> Name</td><td class="navbox-abovebelow" style="font-weight:bold; text-align:center; border-left:2px #fafafa solid; border-right:2px #fafafa solid;;width:8%"> Term</td></tr><tr style="vertical-align:top"><td style="width:18%"> <a href="/wiki/United_States_Secretary_of_State" title="United States Secretary of State">Secretary of State</a></td><td style="width:8%"> <a href="/wiki/John_Kerry" title="John Kerry">John Kerry</a></td><td style="width:8%"> 2013–2017</td><td style="width:18%"> <a href="/wiki/United_States_Secretary_of_the_Treasury" title="United States Secretary of the Treasury">Secretary of Treasury</a></td><td style="width:8%"> <a href="/wiki/Jack_Lew" title="Jack Lew">Jack Lew</a></td><td style="width:8%"> 2013–2017</td></tr><tr style="vertical-align:top"><td style="width:18%"> <a href="/wiki/United_States_Secretary_of_Defense" title="United States Secretary of Defense">Secretary of Defense</a></td><td style="width:8%"> <a href="/wiki/Ash_Carter" title="Ash Carter">Ashton Carter</a></td><td style="width:8%"> 2015–2017</td><td style="width:18%"> <a href="/wiki/United_States_Attorney_General" title="United States Attorney General">Attorney General</a></td><td style="width:8%"> <a href="/wiki/Loretta_Lynch" title="Loretta Lynch">Loretta Lynch</a></td><td style="width:8%"> 2015–2017</td></tr><tr style="vertical-align:top"><td style="width:18%"> <a href="/wiki/United_States_Secretary_of_the_Interior" title="United States Secretary of the Interior">Secretary of the Interior</a></td><td style="width:8%"> <a href="/wiki/Sally_Jewell" title="Sally Jewell">Sally Jewell</a></td><td style="width:8%"> 2013–2017</td><td style="width:18%"> <a href="/wiki/United_States_Secretary_of_Agriculture" title="United States Secretary of Agriculture">Secretary of Agriculture</a></td><td style="width:8%"> <a href="/wiki/Tom_Vilsack" title="Tom Vilsack">Tom Vilsack</a></td><td style="width:8%"> 2009–2017</td></tr><tr style="vertical-align:top"><td style="width:18%"> <a href="/wiki/United_States_Secretary_of_Commerce" title="United States Secretary of Commerce">Secretary of Commerce</a></td><td style="width:8%"> <a href="/wiki/Penny_Pritzker" title="Penny Pritzker">Penny Pritzker</a></td><td style="width:8%"> 2013–2017</td><td style="width:18%"> <a href="/wiki/United_States_Secretary_of_Labor" title="United States Secretary of Labor">Secretary of Labor</a></td><td style="width:8%"> <a href="/wiki/Tom_Perez" title="Tom Perez">Thomas Perez</a></td><td style="width:8%"> 2013–2017</td></tr><tr style="vertical-align:top"><td style="width:18%"> <a href="/wiki/United_States_Secretary_of_Health_and_Human_Services" title="United States Secretary of Health and Human Services">Secretary of Health and<br/> Human Services</a></td><td style="width:8%"> <a href="/wiki/Sylvia_Mathews_Burwell" title="Sylvia Mathews Burwell">Sylvia Mathews Burwell</a></td><td style="width:8%"> 2014–2017</td><td style="width:18%"> <a href="/wiki/United_States_Secretary_of_Education" title="United States Secretary of Education">Secretary of Education</a><br/><a href="/wiki/United_States_Secretary_of_Transportation" title="United States Secretary of Transportation">Secretary of Transportation</a></td><td style="width:8%"> <a href="/wiki/John_King_Jr." title="John King Jr.">John King Jr.</a><br/><a href="/wiki/Anthony_Foxx" title="Anthony Foxx">Anthony Foxx</a></td><td style="width:8%"> 2016–2017<br/>2013–2017</td></tr><tr style="vertical-align:top"><td style="width:18%"> <a href="/wiki/United_States_Secretary_of_Housing_and_Urban_Development" title="United States Secretary of Housing and Urban Development">Secretary of Housing and Urban<br/> Development</a></td><td style="width:8%"> <a href="/wiki/Julian_Castro" title="Julian Castro">Julian Castro</a></td><td style="width:8%"> 2014–2017</td><td style="width:18%"> <a href="/wiki/United_States_Secretary_of_Veterans_Affairs" title="United States Secretary of Veterans Affairs">Secretary of Veterans Affairs</a></td><td style="width:8%"> <a href="/wiki/Robert_A._McDonald" class="mw-redirect" title="Robert A. McDonald">Robert A. McDonald</a></td><td style="width:8%"> 2014–2017</td></tr><tr style="vertical-align:top"><td style="padding-bottom: 0.25em; border-bottom: 2px solid #ddf;;width:18%"> <a href="/wiki/United_States_Secretary_of_Energy" title="United States Secretary of Energy">Secretary of Energy</a></td><td style="padding-bottom: 0.25em; border-bottom: 2px solid #ddf;;width:8%"> <a href="/wiki/Ernest_Moniz" title="Ernest Moniz">Ernest Moniz</a></td><td style="padding-bottom: 0.25em; border-bottom: 2px solid #ddf;;width:8%"> 2013–2017</td><td style="padding-bottom: 0.25em; border-bottom: 2px solid #ddf;;width:18%"> <a href="/wiki/United_States_Secretary_of_Homeland_Security" title="United States Secretary of Homeland Security">Secretary of Homeland Security</a></td><td style="padding-bottom: 0.25em; border-bottom: 2px solid #ddf;;width:8%"> <a href="/wiki/Jeh_Johnson" title="Jeh Johnson">Jeh Johnson</a></td><td style="padding-bottom: 0.25em; border-bottom: 2px solid #ddf;;width:8%"> 2013–2017</td></tr><tr style="vertical-align:top"><td style="width:18%"> <a href="/wiki/Vice_President_of_the_United_States" title="Vice President of the United States">Vice President</a></td><td style="width:8%"> <a href="/wiki/Joe_Biden" title="Joe Biden">Joe Biden</a></td><td style="width:8%"> 2009–2017</td><td style="width:18%"> <a href="/wiki/White_House_Chief_of_Staff" title="White House Chief of Staff">White House Chief of Staff</a></td><td style="width:8%"> <a href="/wiki/Denis_McDonough" title="Denis McDonough">Denis McDonough</a></td><td style="width:8%"> 2013–2017</td></tr><tr style="vertical-align:top"><td style="width:18%"> <a href="/wiki/Office_of_Management_and_Budget" title="Office of Management and Budget">Director of the Office of Management and<br/> Budget</a></td><td style="width:8%"> <a href="/wiki/Shaun_Donovan" title="Shaun Donovan">Shaun Donovan</a></td><td style="width:8%"> 2014–2017</td><td style="width:18%"> <a href="/wiki/Administrator_of_the_Environmental_Protection_Agency" title="Administrator of the Environmental Protection Agency">Administrator of the Environmental<br/> Protection Agency</a></td><td style="width:8%"> <a href="/wiki/Gina_McCarthy" title="Gina McCarthy">Gina McCarthy</a></td><td style="width:8%"> 2013–2017</td></tr><tr style="vertical-align:top"><td style="width:18%"> <a href="/wiki/United_States_Ambassador_to_the_United_Nations" class="mw-redirect" title="United States Ambassador to the United Nations">Ambassador to the United Nations</a></td><td style="width:8%"> <a href="/wiki/Samantha_Power" title="Samantha Power">Samantha Power</a></td><td style="width:8%"> 2013–2017</td><td style="width:18%"> <a href="/wiki/Council_of_Economic_Advisers" title="Council of Economic Advisers">Chair of the Council of Economic<br/> Advisers</a></td><td style="width:8%"> <a href="/wiki/Jason_Furman" title="Jason Furman">Jason Furman</a></td><td style="width:8%"> 2013–2017</td></tr><tr style="vertical-align:top"><td style="width:18%"> <a href="/wiki/Office_of_the_United_States_Trade_Representative" title="Office of the United States Trade Representative">Trade Representative</a></td><td style="width:8%"> <a href="/wiki/Michael_Froman" title="Michael Froman">Michael Froman</a></td><td style="width:8%"> 2013–2017</td><td style="width:18%"> <a href="/wiki/Administrator_of_the_Small_Business_Administration" title="Administrator of the Small Business Administration">Administrator of the Small Business Administration</a></td><td style="width:8%"> <a href="/wiki/Maria_Contreras-Sweet" title="Maria Contreras-Sweet">Maria Contreras-Sweet</a></td><td style="width:8%"> 2014–2017</td></tr></tbody></table></div></div></td></tr><tr><td class="navbox-abovebelow" colspan="2"><div><small><i>Below solid line: Granted <a href="/wiki/Cabinet_of_the_United_States#Cabinet-level_officers" title="Cabinet of the United States">Cabinet rank</a> although not automatically part of the Cabinet. See also: <a href="/wiki/Confirmations_of_Barack_Obama%27s_Cabinet" class="mw-redirect" title="Confirmations of Barack Obama's Cabinet">Confirmations of Barack Obama's Cabinet</a></i></small></div></td></tr></tbody></table></div> <dl><dd><dl><dd>I think <span class="nowrap">{{</span><a href="/wiki/Template:Obama_cabinet" title="Template:Obama cabinet">Obama cabinet</a><span class="nowrap">}}</span> will become more useful and look <b>a lot</b> better in a year or two, but for now I can't see any reason not to use <span class="nowrap">{{</span><a href="/wiki/Template:Obama_personnel,_Cabinet-level_child-template" title="Template:Obama personnel, Cabinet-level child-template">Obama personnel, Cabinet-level child-template</a><span class="nowrap">}}</span> instead. It uses space much more efficiently and is much easier to read. ~ <a href="/wiki/User:Psantora" title="User:Psantora">Paul</a><small><sup><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Psantora" title="User talk:Psantora">T</a><span class="plainlinks"><a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Psantora&action=edit">+</a></span></sup>/<sub><a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Psantora" title="Special:Contributions/Psantora">C</a></sub></small> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:Obama_cabinet#c-Psantora-2008-12-26T21:38:00.000Z-Nmajdan-2008-12-26T21:03:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:38, 26 December 2008 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Psantora-2008-12-26T21:38:00.000Z-Nmajdan-2008-12-26T21:03:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Psantora-2008-12-26T21:38:00.000Z-Nmajdan-2008-12-26T21:03:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Confirmations_of_Barack_Obama's_Cabinet" data-mw-thread-id="h-Confirmations_of_Barack_Obama's_Cabinet-2009-02-04T02:10:00.000Z"><span id="Confirmations_of_Barack_Obama.27s_Cabinet"></span><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Confirmations_of_Barack_Obama's_Cabinet-2009-02-04T02:10:00.000Z"></span><a href="/wiki/Confirmations_of_Barack_Obama%27s_Cabinet" class="mw-redirect" title="Confirmations of Barack Obama's Cabinet">Confirmations of Barack Obama's Cabinet</a><span data-mw-comment-end="h-Confirmations_of_Barack_Obama's_Cabinet-2009-02-04T02:10:00.000Z"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Template_talk:Obama_cabinet&action=edit&section=16" title="Edit section: Confirmations of Barack Obama's Cabinet"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Spinach_Monster-2009-02-04T02:10:00.000Z-Confirmations_of_Barack_Obama's_Cabinet"></span>Is there a way we can put that article into this template or some similar template? <a href="/wiki/User:Spinach_Monster" title="User:Spinach Monster">Spinach Monster</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Spinach_Monster" title="User talk:Spinach Monster">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:Obama_cabinet#c-Spinach_Monster-2009-02-04T02:10:00.000Z-Confirmations_of_Barack_Obama's_Cabinet" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:10, 4 February 2009 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Spinach_Monster-2009-02-04T02:10:00.000Z-Confirmations_of_Barack_Obama's_Cabinet"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Spinach_Monster-2009-02-04T02:10:00.000Z-Confirmations_of_Barack_Obama's_Cabinet"></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Robert_Gates" data-mw-thread-id="h-Robert_Gates-2009-02-07T23:57:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Robert_Gates-2009-02-07T23:57:00.000Z"></span>Robert Gates<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Robert_Gates-2009-02-07T23:57:00.000Z"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Template_talk:Obama_cabinet&action=edit&section=17" title="Edit section: Robert Gates"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-GoodDay-2009-02-07T23:57:00.000Z-Robert_Gates"></span>Gates tenure in Obama's cabinet, as Secy of Defense, begins in 2009. We've done this with other cabinet officials who've served from one cabinet to the next 'no stop'. For example: see <a href="/wiki/William_Seward" class="mw-redirect" title="William Seward">William Seward</a> or <a href="/wiki/Dean_Rusk" title="Dean Rusk">Dean Rusk</a>. <a href="/wiki/User:GoodDay" title="User:GoodDay">GoodDay</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:GoodDay" title="User talk:GoodDay">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:Obama_cabinet#c-GoodDay-2009-02-07T23:57:00.000Z-Robert_Gates" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:57, 7 February 2009 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-GoodDay-2009-02-07T23:57:00.000Z-Robert_Gates"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-GoodDay-2009-02-07T23:57:00.000Z-Robert_Gates"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Hoshie-2009-02-22T22:49:00.000Z-GoodDay-2009-02-07T23:57:00.000Z"></span>I agree with this change. For example, Bush 41 kept Reagan's AG, Treasury, and Education secretaries. They are listed in the Bush 41 template with the date their service began under the new President began and not the date they were appointed by the previous Pres. See <a href="/wiki/Template:GHW_Bush_cabinet" title="Template:GHW Bush cabinet">Template:GHW Bush cabinet</a>. If the other templates such as the one for <a href="/wiki/Template:Ford_cabinet" title="Template:Ford cabinet">Ford</a> and <a href="/wiki/Template:LBJohnson_cabinet" class="mw-redirect" title="Template:LBJohnson cabinet">LBJ</a> do it, then this one should too. - Thanks, <i><a href="/wiki/User:Hoshie" title="User:Hoshie">Hos</a></i><b><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Hoshie" title="User talk:Hoshie">hie</a></b> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:Obama_cabinet#c-Hoshie-2009-02-22T22:49:00.000Z-GoodDay-2009-02-07T23:57:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:49, 22 February 2009 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Hoshie-2009-02-22T22:49:00.000Z-GoodDay-2009-02-07T23:57:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Hoshie-2009-02-22T22:49:00.000Z-GoodDay-2009-02-07T23:57:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Vice_President" data-mw-thread-id="h-Vice_President-2011-05-31T01:11:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Vice_President-2011-05-31T01:11:00.000Z"></span>Vice President<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Vice_President-2011-05-31T01:11:00.000Z"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Template_talk:Obama_cabinet&action=edit&section=18" title="Edit section: Vice President"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-96.25.248.210-2011-05-31T01:11:00.000Z-Vice_President"></span>According to the White House website, the Vice President is part of the cabinet (not just cabinet level): "The Cabinet includes the Vice President and the heads of 15 executive departments" <a rel="nofollow" class="external autonumber" href="https://www.whitehouse.gov/administration/cabinet">[16]</a>. This should be fixed in the template. <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/96.25.248.210" title="Special:Contributions/96.25.248.210">96.25.248.210</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:96.25.248.210" title="User talk:96.25.248.210">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:Obama_cabinet#c-96.25.248.210-2011-05-31T01:11:00.000Z-Vice_President" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:11, 31 May 2011 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-96.25.248.210-2011-05-31T01:11:00.000Z-Vice_President"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-96.25.248.210-2011-05-31T01:11:00.000Z-Vice_President"></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Edit_request_on_4_May_2012" data-mw-thread-id="h-Edit_request_on_4_May_2012-2012-05-04T03:20:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Edit_request_on_4_May_2012-2012-05-04T03:20:00.000Z"></span>Edit request on 4 May 2012<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Edit_request_on_4_May_2012-2012-05-04T03:20:00.000Z"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Template_talk:Obama_cabinet&action=edit&section=19" title="Edit section: Edit request on 4 May 2012"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-71.92.50.160-2012-05-04T03:20:00.000Z-Edit_request_on_4_May_2012"></span><link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1237879475"><table class="plainlinks tmbox mbox-small tmbox-notice editrequest" role="presentation" data-origlevel="semi"><tbody><tr><td class="mbox-image"><span typeof="mw:File"><span><img alt="" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/1/1d/Information_icon4.svg/30px-Information_icon4.svg.png" decoding="async" width="30" height="30" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/1/1d/Information_icon4.svg/45px-Information_icon4.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/1/1d/Information_icon4.svg/60px-Information_icon4.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="620" data-file-height="620"/></span></span></td><td class="mbox-text">This <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Edit_requests" title="Wikipedia:Edit requests">edit request</a> has been answered. Set the <code style="white-space: nowrap;">|answered=</code> or <code style="white-space: nowrap;">|ans=</code> parameter to <b>no</b> to reactivate your request.</td></tr></tbody></table> <p>Please change the link to cabinet members from "cabinet of the United Kingdom" to "Cabinet of the United States" </p> <dl><dd>Reasoning should be obvious</dd></dl> <p><a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/71.92.50.160" title="Special:Contributions/71.92.50.160">71.92.50.160</a> (<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:71.92.50.160&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User talk:71.92.50.160 (page does not exist)">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:Obama_cabinet#c-71.92.50.160-2012-05-04T03:20:00.000Z-Edit_request_on_4_May_2012" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">03:20, 4 May 2012 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-71.92.50.160-2012-05-04T03:20:00.000Z-Edit_request_on_4_May_2012"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-71.92.50.160-2012-05-04T03:20:00.000Z-Edit_request_on_4_May_2012"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Dru_of_Id-2012-05-04T05:56:00.000Z-71.92.50.160-2012-05-04T03:20:00.000Z"></span><span typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Pictogram_voting_keep.svg" class="mw-file-description"><img alt="" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/0e/Pictogram_voting_keep.svg/18px-Pictogram_voting_keep.svg.png" decoding="async" width="18" height="18" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/0e/Pictogram_voting_keep.svg/27px-Pictogram_voting_keep.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/0e/Pictogram_voting_keep.svg/36px-Pictogram_voting_keep.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="250" data-file-height="250"/></a></span><b> Fixed</b> Error by user during recent change. <a href="/wiki/User:Dru_of_Id" title="User:Dru of Id">Dru of Id</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Dru_of_Id" title="User talk:Dru of Id">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:Obama_cabinet#c-Dru_of_Id-2012-05-04T05:56:00.000Z-71.92.50.160-2012-05-04T03:20:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">05:56, 4 May 2012 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Dru_of_Id-2012-05-04T05:56:00.000Z-71.92.50.160-2012-05-04T03:20:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Dru_of_Id-2012-05-04T05:56:00.000Z-71.92.50.160-2012-05-04T03:20:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Acting_Secretaries" data-mw-thread-id="h-Acting_Secretaries"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Acting_Secretaries"></span>Acting Secretaries<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Acting_Secretaries"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Template_talk:Obama_cabinet&action=edit&section=20" title="Edit section: Acting Secretaries"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span></div> <p>Do we keep acting Secretaries listed once the office is filled after the nominee is confirmed? Or will those persons than be removed. On the one hand it's strange to list people who in the turnover from first term to second term were acting Secretaries for less than a month (for instance Poneman in the timespan between the time Chu's resignation became effective and Moniz's confirmation by the Senate), on the other hand Rebecca Blank has been acting Secretary for nearly a year already... I propose to delete SHORT TERM acting Secretaries once the office they were acting for has been filled by a confimed Secterary but to have the acting Secretay listed as long as they are acting in such function. I would also make an exception to acting secretaries who are long term acting like Blank or Zients. -- <a href="/wiki/User:Fdewaele" title="User:Fdewaele">fdewaele</a>, 17 May 2013, 9:03 CET. </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Template-protected_edit_request_on_21_January_2017" data-mw-thread-id="h-Template-protected_edit_request_on_21_January_2017-2017-01-21T01:33:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Template-protected_edit_request_on_21_January_2017-2017-01-21T01:33:00.000Z"></span>Template-protected edit request on 21 January 2017<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Template-protected_edit_request_on_21_January_2017-2017-01-21T01:33:00.000Z"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Template_talk:Obama_cabinet&action=edit&section=21" title="Edit section: Template-protected edit request on 21 January 2017"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-AmaryllisGardener-2017-01-21T01:33:00.000Z-Template-protected_edit_request_on_21_January_2017"></span><link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1237879475"><table class="plainlinks tmbox mbox-small tmbox-notice editrequest" role="presentation" data-origlevel="template"><tbody><tr><td class="mbox-image"><span typeof="mw:File"><span><img alt="" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/1/1d/Information_icon4.svg/30px-Information_icon4.svg.png" decoding="async" width="30" height="30" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/1/1d/Information_icon4.svg/45px-Information_icon4.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/1/1d/Information_icon4.svg/60px-Information_icon4.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="620" data-file-height="620"/></span></span></td><td class="mbox-text">This <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Edit_requests" title="Wikipedia:Edit requests">edit request</a> has been answered. Set the <code style="white-space: nowrap;">|answered=</code> or <code style="white-space: nowrap;">|ans=</code> parameter to <b>no</b> to reactivate your request.</td></tr></tbody></table> <p>Change "since 2009" to "2009-2017", per Trump's inauguration. Also update each of the cabinet members entries year brackets, with them ending in 2017. All Obama cabinet members are out of office, with either Trump's nominees or a stand-in in their places. <a href="/wiki/User:AmaryllisGardener" title="User:AmaryllisGardener"><b><span style="color:#E0115F">Amaryllis</span><span style="color:#74C365">Gardener</span></b></a> <sup><a href="/wiki/User_talk:AmaryllisGardener" title="User talk:AmaryllisGardener"><b>talk</b></a></sup> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:Obama_cabinet#c-AmaryllisGardener-2017-01-21T01:33:00.000Z-Template-protected_edit_request_on_21_January_2017" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:33, 21 January 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-AmaryllisGardener-2017-01-21T01:33:00.000Z-Template-protected_edit_request_on_21_January_2017"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-AmaryllisGardener-2017-01-21T01:33:00.000Z-Template-protected_edit_request_on_21_January_2017"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-JJMC89-2017-01-21T01:48:00.000Z-AmaryllisGardener-2017-01-21T01:33:00.000Z"></span><span typeof="mw:File"><span><img alt="" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/f/fb/Yes_check.svg/20px-Yes_check.svg.png" decoding="async" width="20" height="20" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/f/fb/Yes_check.svg/30px-Yes_check.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/f/fb/Yes_check.svg/40px-Yes_check.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="600" data-file-height="600"/></span></span> <b>Done</b> — <a href="/wiki/User:JJMC89" title="User:JJMC89">JJMC89</a> <small>(<a href="/wiki/User_talk:JJMC89" title="User talk:JJMC89">T</a><b>·</b><a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/JJMC89" title="Special:Contributions/JJMC89">C</a>)</small> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:Obama_cabinet#c-JJMC89-2017-01-21T01:48:00.000Z-AmaryllisGardener-2017-01-21T01:33:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:48, 21 January 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-JJMC89-2017-01-21T01:48:00.000Z-AmaryllisGardener-2017-01-21T01:33:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-JJMC89-2017-01-21T01:48:00.000Z-AmaryllisGardener-2017-01-21T01:33:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Template-protected_edit_request_on_25_February_2017" data-mw-thread-id="h-Template-protected_edit_request_on_25_February_2017-2017-02-25T23:02:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Template-protected_edit_request_on_25_February_2017-2017-02-25T23:02:00.000Z"></span>Template-protected edit request on 25 February 2017<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Template-protected_edit_request_on_25_February_2017-2017-02-25T23:02:00.000Z"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Template_talk:Obama_cabinet&action=edit&section=22" title="Edit section: Template-protected edit request on 25 February 2017"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-AmorPatiturMoras-2017-02-25T23:02:00.000Z-Template-protected_edit_request_on_25_February_2017"></span>Article links that need changing: Thomas Perez → Tom Perez; John King, Jr. → John King Jr. <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:AmorPatiturMoras&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:AmorPatiturMoras (page does not exist)">APM</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:AmorPatiturMoras" title="User talk:AmorPatiturMoras">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:Obama_cabinet#c-AmorPatiturMoras-2017-02-25T23:02:00.000Z-Template-protected_edit_request_on_25_February_2017" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:02, 25 February 2017 (UTC)</a>AmorPatiturMoras<span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-AmorPatiturMoras-2017-02-25T23:02:00.000Z-Template-protected_edit_request_on_25_February_2017"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-AmorPatiturMoras-2017-02-25T23:02:00.000Z-Template-protected_edit_request_on_25_February_2017"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Matt_Fitzpatrick-2018-02-02T00:20:00.000Z-AmorPatiturMoras-2017-02-25T23:02:00.000Z"></span><span typeof="mw:File"><span><img alt="" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/f/fb/Yes_check.svg/20px-Yes_check.svg.png" decoding="async" width="20" height="20" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/f/fb/Yes_check.svg/30px-Yes_check.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/f/fb/Yes_check.svg/40px-Yes_check.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="600" data-file-height="600"/></span></span> <b>Done</b> Sorry for the long delay. See <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Edit_requests" title="Wikipedia:Edit requests">Wikipedia:Edit requests</a> for information on getting more visibility for requests. <a href="/wiki/User:Matt_Fitzpatrick" title="User:Matt Fitzpatrick">Matt Fitzpatrick</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Matt_Fitzpatrick" title="User talk:Matt Fitzpatrick">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:Obama_cabinet#c-Matt_Fitzpatrick-2018-02-02T00:20:00.000Z-AmorPatiturMoras-2017-02-25T23:02:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:20, 2 February 2018 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Matt_Fitzpatrick-2018-02-02T00:20:00.000Z-AmorPatiturMoras-2017-02-25T23:02:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Matt_Fitzpatrick-2018-02-02T00:20:00.000Z-AmorPatiturMoras-2017-02-25T23:02:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Template-protected_edit_request_on_25_January_2021" data-mw-thread-id="h-Template-protected_edit_request_on_25_January_2021-2021-01-25T01:52:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Template-protected_edit_request_on_25_January_2021-2021-01-25T01:52:00.000Z"></span>Template-protected edit request on 25 January 2021<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Template-protected_edit_request_on_25_January_2021-2021-01-25T01:52:00.000Z"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Template_talk:Obama_cabinet&action=edit&section=23" title="Edit section: Template-protected edit request on 25 January 2021"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-2600:1700:2390:D50:8037:A261:859:B418-2021-01-25T01:52:00.000Z-Template-protected_edit_request_on_25_January_2021"></span><link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1237879475"><table class="plainlinks tmbox mbox-small tmbox-notice editrequest" role="presentation" data-origlevel="template"><tbody><tr><td class="mbox-image"><span typeof="mw:File"><span><img alt="" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/1/1d/Information_icon4.svg/30px-Information_icon4.svg.png" decoding="async" width="30" height="30" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/1/1d/Information_icon4.svg/45px-Information_icon4.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/1/1d/Information_icon4.svg/60px-Information_icon4.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="620" data-file-height="620"/></span></span></td><td class="mbox-text">This <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Edit_requests" title="Wikipedia:Edit requests">edit request</a> has been answered. Set the <code style="white-space: nowrap;">|answered=</code> or <code style="white-space: nowrap;">|ans=</code> parameter to <b>no</b> to reactivate your request.</td></tr></tbody></table> <p>I would recommend moving the "Vice President" row to the top of the "Cabinet" section rather than have it listed under the "Cabinet-level" section. <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/2600:1700:2390:D50:8037:A261:859:B418" title="Special:Contributions/2600:1700:2390:D50:8037:A261:859:B418">2600:1700:2390:D50:8037:A261:859:B418</a> (<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:2600:1700:2390:D50:8037:A261:859:B418&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User talk:2600:1700:2390:D50:8037:A261:859:B418 (page does not exist)">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:Obama_cabinet#c-2600:1700:2390:D50:8037:A261:859:B418-2021-01-25T01:52:00.000Z-Template-protected_edit_request_on_25_January_2021" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:52, 25 January 2021 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-2600:1700:2390:D50:8037:A261:859:B418-2021-01-25T01:52:00.000Z-Template-protected_edit_request_on_25_January_2021"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-2600:1700:2390:D50:8037:A261:859:B418-2021-01-25T01:52:00.000Z-Template-protected_edit_request_on_25_January_2021"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Jonesey95-2021-01-25T15:40:00.000Z-2600:1700:2390:D50:8037:A261:859:B418-2021-01-25T01:52:00.000Z"></span><span typeof="mw:File"><span><img alt="" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/1f/Red_information_icon_with_gradient_background.svg/20px-Red_information_icon_with_gradient_background.svg.png" decoding="async" width="20" height="20" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/1f/Red_information_icon_with_gradient_background.svg/30px-Red_information_icon_with_gradient_background.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/1f/Red_information_icon_with_gradient_background.svg/40px-Red_information_icon_with_gradient_background.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="62" data-file-height="62"/></span></span> <b>Not done for now:</b> please establish a <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Consensus" title="Wikipedia:Consensus">consensus</a> for this alteration <b><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Edit_requests" title="Wikipedia:Edit requests">before</a></b> using the <code>{{<a href="/wiki/Template:Edit_template-protected" title="Template:Edit template-protected">edit template-protected</a>}}</code> template. – <a href="/wiki/User:Jonesey95" title="User:Jonesey95">Jonesey95</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Jonesey95" title="User talk:Jonesey95">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:Obama_cabinet#c-Jonesey95-2021-01-25T15:40:00.000Z-2600:1700:2390:D50:8037:A261:859:B418-2021-01-25T01:52:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:40, 25 January 2021 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Jonesey95-2021-01-25T15:40:00.000Z-2600:1700:2390:D50:8037:A261:859:B418-2021-01-25T01:52:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Jonesey95-2021-01-25T15:40:00.000Z-2600:1700:2390:D50:8037:A261:859:B418-2021-01-25T01:52:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Semi-protected_edit_request_on_27_February_2021" data-mw-thread-id="h-Semi-protected_edit_request_on_27_February_2021-2021-02-27T00:35:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Semi-protected_edit_request_on_27_February_2021-2021-02-27T00:35:00.000Z"></span>Semi-protected edit request on 27 February 2021<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Semi-protected_edit_request_on_27_February_2021-2021-02-27T00:35:00.000Z"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Template_talk:Obama_cabinet&action=edit&section=24" title="Edit section: Semi-protected edit request on 27 February 2021"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-67.173.23.66-2021-02-27T00:35:00.000Z-Semi-protected_edit_request_on_27_February_2021"></span><link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1237879475"><table class="plainlinks tmbox mbox-small tmbox-notice editrequest" role="presentation" data-origlevel="semi"><tbody><tr><td class="mbox-image"><span typeof="mw:File"><span><img alt="" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/1/1d/Information_icon4.svg/30px-Information_icon4.svg.png" decoding="async" width="30" height="30" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/1/1d/Information_icon4.svg/45px-Information_icon4.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/1/1d/Information_icon4.svg/60px-Information_icon4.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="620" data-file-height="620"/></span></span></td><td class="mbox-text">This <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Edit_requests" title="Wikipedia:Edit requests">edit request</a> has been answered. Set the <code style="white-space: nowrap;">|answered=</code> or <code style="white-space: nowrap;">|ans=</code> parameter to <b>no</b> to reactivate your request.</td></tr></tbody></table> <p>Please remove the following note as it is not used.: </p><p>* Acting <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/67.173.23.66" title="Special:Contributions/67.173.23.66">67.173.23.66</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:67.173.23.66" title="User talk:67.173.23.66">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:Obama_cabinet#c-67.173.23.66-2021-02-27T00:35:00.000Z-Semi-protected_edit_request_on_27_February_2021" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:35, 27 February 2021 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-67.173.23.66-2021-02-27T00:35:00.000Z-Semi-protected_edit_request_on_27_February_2021"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-67.173.23.66-2021-02-27T00:35:00.000Z-Semi-protected_edit_request_on_27_February_2021"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Bestagon-2021-02-27T02:53:00.000Z-67.173.23.66-2021-02-27T00:35:00.000Z"></span><span typeof="mw:File"><span><img alt="" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/f/fb/Yes_check.svg/20px-Yes_check.svg.png" decoding="async" width="20" height="20" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/f/fb/Yes_check.svg/30px-Yes_check.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/f/fb/Yes_check.svg/40px-Yes_check.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="600" data-file-height="600"/></span></span> <b>Done</b> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Bestagon" title="User talk:Bestagon">Bestagon</a> ⬡ <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:Obama_cabinet#c-Bestagon-2021-02-27T02:53:00.000Z-67.173.23.66-2021-02-27T00:35:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:53, 27 February 2021 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Bestagon-2021-02-27T02:53:00.000Z-67.173.23.66-2021-02-27T00:35:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Bestagon-2021-02-27T02:53:00.000Z-67.173.23.66-2021-02-27T00:35:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl>    </div><noscript><img src="https://login.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:CentralAutoLogin/start?type=1x1&useformat=desktop" alt="" width="1" height="1" style="border: none; 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