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Baseline EVC at 512p is close to the efficiency of the most efficient codec, VVC, but has very low complexity and no royalties." /><link rel="canonical" href="https://www.physicsforums.com/insights/lcevc-8k-tv/" /><meta property="og:locale" content="en_US" /><meta property="og:type" content="article" /><meta property="og:title" content="The LCEVC Coding Standard and 8K Television" /><meta property="og:description" content="Here I will be talking about LCEVC and baseline EVC. Baseline EVC at 512p is close to the efficiency of the most efficient codec, VVC, but has very low complexity and no royalties." /><meta property="og:url" content="https://www.physicsforums.com/insights/lcevc-8k-tv/" /><meta property="og:site_name" content="Physics Forums Insights" /><meta property="article:publisher" content="https://www.facebook.com/physicsforums" /><meta property="article:published_time" content="2021-06-19T23:00:08+00:00" /><meta property="article:modified_time" content="2024-08-18T14:28:33+00:00" /><meta property="og:image" content="https://www.physicsforums.com/insights/wp-content/uploads/2021/06/LCEVC-8k-tv.png" /><meta property="og:image:width" content="240" /><meta property="og:image:height" content="135" /><meta property="og:image:type" content="image/png" /><meta name="author" content="Bill Hobba" /><meta name="twitter:card" content="summary_large_image" /><meta name="twitter:creator" content="@physicsforums" /><meta name="twitter:site" content="@physicsforums" /><meta name="twitter:label1" content="Written by" /><meta name="twitter:data1" content="Bill Hobba" /><meta name="twitter:label2" content="Est. reading time" /><meta name="twitter:data2" content="5 minutes" /> <script type="application/ld+json" class="yoast-schema-graph">{"@context":"https://schema.org","@graph":[{"@type":"TechArticle","@id":"https://www.physicsforums.com/insights/lcevc-8k-tv/#article","isPartOf":{"@id":"https://www.physicsforums.com/insights/lcevc-8k-tv/"},"author":{"name":"Bill Hobba","@id":"https://www.physicsforums.com/insights/#/schema/person/23552452cc70a4b8b87843add8612718"},"headline":"The LCEVC Coding Standard and 8K Television","datePublished":"2021-06-19T23:00:08+00:00","dateModified":"2024-08-18T14:28:33+00:00","mainEntityOfPage":{"@id":"https://www.physicsforums.com/insights/lcevc-8k-tv/"},"wordCount":1012,"commentCount":4,"publisher":{"@id":"https://www.physicsforums.com/insights/#organization"},"image":{"@id":"https://www.physicsforums.com/insights/lcevc-8k-tv/#primaryimage"},"thumbnailUrl":"https://www.physicsforums.com/insights/wp-content/uploads/2021/06/LCEVC-8k-tv.png","keywords":["technology"],"articleSection":["Technology Guides"],"inLanguage":"en-US","potentialAction":[{"@type":"CommentAction","name":"Comment","target":["https://www.physicsforums.com/insights/lcevc-8k-tv/#respond"]}]},{"@type":"WebPage","@id":"https://www.physicsforums.com/insights/lcevc-8k-tv/","url":"https://www.physicsforums.com/insights/lcevc-8k-tv/","name":"The LCEVC Coding Standard and 8K Television","isPartOf":{"@id":"https://www.physicsforums.com/insights/#website"},"primaryImageOfPage":{"@id":"https://www.physicsforums.com/insights/lcevc-8k-tv/#primaryimage"},"image":{"@id":"https://www.physicsforums.com/insights/lcevc-8k-tv/#primaryimage"},"thumbnailUrl":"https://www.physicsforums.com/insights/wp-content/uploads/2021/06/LCEVC-8k-tv.png","datePublished":"2021-06-19T23:00:08+00:00","dateModified":"2024-08-18T14:28:33+00:00","description":"Here I will be talking about LCEVC and baseline EVC. 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itemscope="itemscope" itemtype="https://schema.org/Blog" ><article class="post-entry post-entry-type-standard post-entry-38983 post-loop-1 post-parity-odd post-entry-last single-big with-slider post-38983 post type-post status-publish format-standard has-post-thumbnail hentry category-technology-guides tag-technology" itemscope="itemscope" itemtype="https://schema.org/BlogPosting" itemprop="blogPost" ><div class="big-preview single-big" itemprop="image" itemscope="itemscope" itemtype="https://schema.org/ImageObject" ><a href="https://www.physicsforums.com/insights/wp-content/uploads/2021/06/LCEVC-8k-tv.png" title="LCEVC-8k-tv" ><img data-lazyloaded="1" src="data:image/svg+xml;base64,PHN2ZyB4bWxucz0iaHR0cDovL3d3dy53My5vcmcvMjAwMC9zdmciIHdpZHRoPSIyNDAiIGhlaWdodD0iMTM1IiB2aWV3Qm94PSIwIDAgMjQwIDEzNSI+PHJlY3Qgd2lkdGg9IjEwMCUiIGhlaWdodD0iMTAwJSIgZmlsbD0iI2NmZDRkYiIvPjwvc3ZnPg==" loading="lazy" width="240" height="135" data-src="https://www.physicsforums.com/insights/wp-content/uploads/2021/06/LCEVC-8k-tv.png" class="wp-image-39030 avia-img-lazy-loading-39030 attachment-entry_with_sidebar size-entry_with_sidebar wp-post-image" alt="LCEVC 8k tv" decoding="async" /><noscript><img loading="lazy" width="240" height="135" src="https://www.physicsforums.com/insights/wp-content/uploads/2021/06/LCEVC-8k-tv.png" class="wp-image-39030 avia-img-lazy-loading-39030 attachment-entry_with_sidebar size-entry_with_sidebar wp-post-image" alt="LCEVC 8k tv" decoding="async" /></noscript></a></div><div class="blog-meta"></div><div class='entry-content-wrapper clearfix standard-content'><header class="entry-content-header" aria-label="Post: The LCEVC Coding Standard and 8K Television"><h1 class='post-title entry-title ' itemprop="headline" >The LCEVC Coding Standard and 8K Television<span class="post-format-icon minor-meta"></span></h1><span class="post-meta-infos"><time class="date-container minor-meta updated" itemprop="datePublished" datetime="2021-06-19T18:00:08-05:00" >June 19, 2021</time><span class="text-sep">/</span><span class="comment-container minor-meta"><a href="https://www.physicsforums.com/insights/lcevc-8k-tv/#comments" class="comments-link" >4 Comments</a></span><span class="text-sep">/</span><span class="blog-categories minor-meta">in <a href="https://www.physicsforums.com/insights/science-math-guides/technology-guides/" rel="tag">Technology Guides</a></span><span class="text-sep">/</span><span class="blog-author minor-meta">by <span class="entry-author-link" itemprop="author" ><span class="author"><span class="fn"><a href="https://www.physicsforums.com/insights/author/bhobba/" title="Posts by Bill Hobba" rel="author">Bill Hobba</a></span></span></span></span></span></header><div class="entry-content" itemprop="text" ><div><strong>Estimated Read Time:</strong> 4 minute(s)</div><div><strong>Common Topics:</strong> lcevc, link, video, using, codec</div><div><div id="ez-toc-container" class="ez-toc-v2_0_72 counter-hierarchy ez-toc-counter ez-toc-custom ez-toc-container-direction"><p class="ez-toc-title" style="cursor:inherit">Table of Contents</p> <label for="ez-toc-cssicon-toggle-item-67b599c3f0826" class="ez-toc-cssicon-toggle-label"><span class="ez-toc-cssicon"><span class="eztoc-hide" style="display:none;">Toggle</span><span class="ez-toc-icon-toggle-span"><svg style="fill: #4c4c4c;color:#4c4c4c" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" class="list-377408" width="20px" height="20px" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none"><path d="M6 6H4v2h2V6zm14 0H8v2h12V6zM4 11h2v2H4v-2zm16 0H8v2h12v-2zM4 16h2v2H4v-2zm16 0H8v2h12v-2z" fill="currentColor"></path></svg><svg style="fill: #4c4c4c;color:#4c4c4c" class="arrow-unsorted-368013" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="10px" height="10px" viewBox="0 0 24 24" version="1.2" baseProfile="tiny"><path d="M18.2 9.3l-6.2-6.3-6.2 6.3c-.2.2-.3.4-.3.7s.1.5.3.7c.2.2.4.3.7.3h11c.3 0 .5-.1.7-.3.2-.2.3-.5.3-.7s-.1-.5-.3-.7zM5.8 14.7l6.2 6.3 6.2-6.3c.2-.2.3-.5.3-.7s-.1-.5-.3-.7c-.2-.2-.4-.3-.7-.3h-11c-.3 0-.5.1-.7.3-.2.2-.3.5-.3.7s.1.5.3.7z"/></svg></span></span></label><input type="checkbox" id="ez-toc-cssicon-toggle-item-67b599c3f0826" aria-label="Toggle" /><nav><ul class='ez-toc-list ez-toc-list-level-1 ' ><li class='ez-toc-page-1 ez-toc-heading-level-2'><a class="ez-toc-link ez-toc-heading-1" href="#Introduction" title="Introduction">Introduction</a></li><li class='ez-toc-page-1 ez-toc-heading-level-2'><a class="ez-toc-link ez-toc-heading-2" href="#LCEVC-and-baseline-EVC" title="LCEVC and baseline EVC">LCEVC and baseline EVC</a></li><li class='ez-toc-page-1 ez-toc-heading-level-2'><a class="ez-toc-link ez-toc-heading-3" href="#My-Opinions" title="My Opinions">My Opinions</a><ul class='ez-toc-list-level-3' ><li class='ez-toc-heading-level-3'><a class="ez-toc-link ez-toc-heading-4" href="#More-Related-Articles" title="More Related Articles">More Related Articles</a></li></ul></li></ul></nav></div><h2><span class="ez-toc-section" id="Introduction"></span>Introduction<span class="ez-toc-section-end"></span></h2><p>First, for background, here is an overview of the most common video compression standard in use today, H264: <a class="link link--external" href="https://www.maketecheasier.com/how-video-compression-works/" target="_blank" rel="noopener">https://www.maketecheasier.com/how-video-compression-works/</a></p><p>H265 has improved on this, but for various reasons, it was a bit of a flop. It is in use and will continue to grow, but royalty issues are a problem. To try and address these, 3 new video standards have been approved by MPEG: <a class="link link--external" href="https://ottverse.com/vvc-evc-lcevc-mpeg-video-codecs/" target="_blank" rel="noopener">https://ottverse.com/vvc-evc-lcevc-mpeg-video-codecs/</a></p><p>A consortium of companies has also endorsed a royalty-free codec called AV1. Here though, I will be talking mostly about the EVC baseline used at a resolution of 512p. Although differences exist between codec efficiency at that resolution, which is called SD resolution, it is not big – only about 20% between worst and best (not including H264). These days, it is not used much – people are moving to HD (720p) or Full HD (1024p). It continues with 4K now becoming common on streaming services like Netflix, and the push is on for 8K. At these higher resolutions, there is a big difference between codec efficiency and complexity. The bitrate for 4k over the internet has been solved, but 8k, up until now, has been a problem. It is hoped the new codecs will help to tame it to something like 20mbps. 4k is about 15mbps, although Netflix recommends 25mbps to be on the safe side. However, with new technology like shot-based encoding, Netflix has made it even more efficient: <a class="link link--external" href="https://hackaday.com/2020/09/16/decoding-the-netflix-announcement-explaining-optimized-shot-based-encoding-for-4k/" target="_blank" rel="noopener">https://hackaday.com/2020/09/16/dec…laining-optimized-shot-based-encoding-for-4k/</a></p><h2><span class="ez-toc-section" id="LCEVC-and-baseline-EVC"></span>LCEVC and baseline EVC<span class="ez-toc-section-end"></span></h2><p>Here I will be talking about LCEVC and baseline EVC. Baseline EVC at 512p is close to the efficiency of the most efficient codec, VVC, but has very low complexity and no royalties. It is mostly an arbitrary choice; any codec will do and not make much difference to efficiency.</p><p>The secret sauce of LCEVC is traditional video codecs do not compress the high-frequency part of video well. To fix it, a company called V-Nova came up with LCEVC. Using the following link, you can find a lot of information: <a class="link link--external" href="https://www.lcevc.org/" target="_blank" rel="noopener">https://www.lcevc.org/</a></p><p>For an overview, see: <a class="link link--external" href="https://www.lcevc.org/how-lcevc-works/" target="_blank" rel="noopener">https://www.lcevc.org/how-lcevc-works/</a></p><p>The video is downscaled by 4 and encoded using a standard codec (EVC baseline in this writeup), but any codec will do. That is transmitted. Also added is the difference between the original and downscaled version. The method used to restore the original is to upscale it by 2, then add in the difference between the original downscaled by 2 and the upscaled version. When corrected, it is upscaled by 2 again, and the differences are added to get the original. It is flexible in that you can skip the second downscale if you wish, plus add extra downscaling steps (although I do not believe V-Nova has done a 3 downscale version yet – but IMHO, it would be advantageous with 8k as explained later). They developed some ‘tricky’ techniques, such as M-Prediction and using the previous frame to guess the difference to make it more efficient. You can get the details from the patent: <a class="link link--external" href="https://patents.google.com/patent/WO2020188273A1/en" target="_blank" rel="noopener">https://patents.google.com/patent/WO2020188273A1/en</a></p><p>I have read it – it does take a while but is the only way to get exactly what is going on.</p><p>Since the encoding is done at a lower resolution, it is computationally quick. Slower presets that give better compression can be used and overall still encode quicker. Because the ‘upscaling’ is done using 2X2 or 4X4 blocks, the upscale can use many concurrent threads. Generally speaking, it adds little to the decoding time (with one exception I will mention later).</p><p>Even using just one downscale (I would expect better results with 2 or 3 downscales), performance has been impressive: <a class="link link--external" href="https://www.lcevc.org/wp-content/uploads/MPEG-Verification-Test-Report-on-the-Compression-Performance-of-LCEVC-Meeting-MPEG-134-May-2021.pdf" target="_blank" rel="noopener">https://www.lcevc.org/wp-content/up…rmance-of-LCEVC-Meeting-MPEG-134-May-2021.pdf</a></p><h2><span class="ez-toc-section" id="My-Opinions"></span>My Opinions<span class="ez-toc-section-end"></span></h2><p>With 8k content, one should use 3 downscales. The encoder can do the base codec at 512p. At that resolution, the difference between the performance of codecs is minimal compared to the enhancement data – especially with the newer codecs. For example, royalty-free baseline EVC is only about 15% worse than the most efficient but complex VVC, with all its royalty woes. At the cost of increased processing, one can use task-aware upscaling (TAU) and downscaling, giving smaller corrections after upscaling and greater efficiency: <a class="link link--external" href="https://cv.snu.ac.kr/research/taid/" target="_blank" rel="noopener">https://cv.snu.ac.kr/research/taid/</a>.</p><p>Experiments done by Samsung with its Scalenet technology (a version of Task Aware Upscaling) show that using this in going from 4k to 8k, it is very, very difficult to tell the difference (I have heard it has a VMAF of nearly 100 and PSNR of a bit below 40). Considering it is hard to detect the difference between 8k and downscaled to 4k, the third layer will not be doing much work – it will all be in the first and second layers. Since they will also be using Task Aware Upscaling for the other upscales, they will also be more efficient. The downside is the amount of processing power required – but processing power is still getting cheaper – so it will likely happen. Still, even without the assistance of superresolution, reductions in bitrates of 40% to 50% are entirely possible. See: <a class="link link--external" href="https://8kassociation.com/lcevc-licensing-offers-different-model-to-kickstart-8k-market/" target="_blank" rel="noopener">https://8kassociation.com/lcevc-licensing-offers-different-model-to-kickstart-8k-market/</a></p><p>VMAF 93 and above is generally considered to be for all practical purposes indistinguishable from the original, and using H265 with LCEVC was achieved at about 20mbs. 8K transmission is entirely possible now at bit rates nearly everyone has available. By Per Scene Encoding Netflix has made it even more efficient: <a class="link link--external" href="https://hackaday.com/2020/09/16/decoding-the-netflix-announcement-explaining-optimized-shot-based-encoding-for-4k/" target="_blank" rel="noopener">https://hackaday.com/2020/09/16/dec…laining-optimized-shot-based-encoding-for-4k/</a></p><p>Look for even 20mbps to be reduced significantly. Companies are working on integrating it with Content Adaptive Encoding (CAE) that lowers it even further: <a class="link link--external" href="https://blog.beamr.com/2019/09/11/cabr-content-adaptive-rate-control/" target="_blank" rel="noopener">https://blog.beamr.com/2019/09/11/cabr-content-adaptive-rate-control/</a></p><p>Harmonic managed to get 8K at about 25mbps using just CAE – no LCEVC. It is working on combining it with LCEVC at the moment. Combining all these ‘tricks’ means in the future, distributing 8K content will be not an issue at all. Even now, it is not an issue – we need the content to make it worthwhile and some new infrastructure.</p></div><div class="saboxplugin-wrap" itemtype="http://schema.org/Person" itemscope itemprop="author"><div class="saboxplugin-tab"><div class="saboxplugin-gravatar"></div><div class="saboxplugin-authorname"><a href="https://www.physicsforums.com/insights/author/bhobba/" class="vcard author" rel="author"><span class="fn">Bill Hobba</span></a></div><div class="saboxplugin-desc"><div itemprop="description"><p>My favourite interest is exactly how can we view the world so what science tells us is intuitive.</p></div></div><div class="clearfix"></div></div></div><style>.lwrp.link-whisper-related-posts{ margin-top: 25px; margin-bottom: 25px; } .lwrp .lwrp-title{ }.lwrp .lwrp-description{ } .lwrp .lwrp-list-container{ } .lwrp .lwrp-list-multi-container{ display: flex; } .lwrp .lwrp-list-double{ width: 48%; } .lwrp .lwrp-list-triple{ width: 32%; } .lwrp .lwrp-list-row-container{ display: flex; 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class='hidden'> <span class='av-structured-data' itemprop="image" itemscope="itemscope" itemtype="https://schema.org/ImageObject" > <span itemprop='url'>https://www.physicsforums.com/insights/wp-content/uploads/2021/06/LCEVC-8k-tv.png</span> <span itemprop='height'>135</span> <span itemprop='width'>240</span> </span> <span class='av-structured-data' itemprop="publisher" itemtype="https://schema.org/Organization" itemscope="itemscope" > <span itemprop='name'>Bill Hobba</span> <span itemprop='logo' itemscope itemtype='https://schema.org/ImageObject'> <span itemprop='url'>https://www.physicsforums.com/insights/wp-content/uploads/2019/02/Physics_Forums_Insights_logo.png</span> </span> </span><span class='av-structured-data' itemprop="author" itemscope="itemscope" itemtype="https://schema.org/Person" ><span itemprop='name'>Bill Hobba</span></span><span class='av-structured-data' itemprop="datePublished" datetime="2021-06-19T18:00:08-05:00" >2021-06-19 18:00:08</span><span class='av-structured-data' itemprop="dateModified" itemtype="https://schema.org/dateModified" >2024-08-18 09:28:33</span><span class='av-structured-data' itemprop="mainEntityOfPage" itemtype="https://schema.org/mainEntityOfPage" ><span itemprop='name'>The LCEVC Coding Standard and 8K Television</span></span></span></article><div class='single-big'></div><div class='related_posts clearfix av-related-style-full'><h5 class="related_title">You might also like</h5><div class="related_entries_container"><div class='av_one_half no_margin alpha relThumb relThumb1 relThumbOdd post-format-standard related_column'><a href='https://www.physicsforums.com/insights/quantum-computing-for-beginners/' class='relThumWrap noLightbox' title='Quantum Computing for Beginners'><span class='related_image_wrap' ><img data-lazyloaded="1" 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center-border-right'></span></div></div></div><div class='comment_container'><ol class="commentlist" id="comments"><li class="comment byuser comment-author-bhobba bypostauthor even thread-even depth-1" id="li-comment-12590"><div id="comment-12590"><article><div class="gravatar"></div><div class='comment_content'><header class="comment-header" aria-label="Comment Info" > <cite class="author_name heading"><cite class="comment_author_name">bhobba</cite></cite> <span class="says">says:</span><div class="comment-meta commentmetadata"> <a href="https://www.physicsforums.com/insights/lcevc-8k-tv/#comment-12590"> <time > July 11, 2021 at 3:13 am </time> </a></div></header><div class='comment_text entry-content-wrapper clearfix' ><div class="bbWrapper">There has been an interesting new idea in AI upscaling that would dovetail nicely with LCEVC:<br /> <a href="https://arxiv.org/pdf/2012.00650.pdf" target="_blank" class="link link--external" rel="nofollow ugc noopener">https://arxiv.org/pdf/2012.00650.pdf</a></p><p>I think it could eventually become part of the standard, leading to even greater efficiency gains and bitrate reductions. It is early days yet, and like will be even better with further development, e.g. the idea of adaptive base revolution would be easy to implement in LCEVC.</p><p>Thanks<br /> Bill</div> <a rel="nofollow" class="comment-reply-login" href="https://www.physicsforums.com/insights/wp-login.php?redirect_to=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.physicsforums.com%2Finsights%2Flcevc-8k-tv%2F">Log in to Reply</a></div></div></article></div></li><li class="comment byuser comment-author-bhobba bypostauthor odd alt thread-odd thread-alt depth-1" id="li-comment-12588"><div id="comment-12588"><article><div class="gravatar"></div><div class='comment_content'><header class="comment-header" aria-label="Comment Info" > <cite class="author_name heading"><cite class="comment_author_name">bhobba</cite></cite> <span class="says">says:</span><div class="comment-meta commentmetadata"> <a href="https://www.physicsforums.com/insights/lcevc-8k-tv/#comment-12588"> <time > July 3, 2021 at 10:09 am </time> </a></div></header><div class='comment_text entry-content-wrapper clearfix' ><div class="bbWrapper">"<br /> WTF! Isn't that exactly what Compuserve did with the GIF format? The whole point of patent pools is to stop corporations from doing that by having the cumulative rights worked out in advance. Lawyers make communism look good every day.<br /> "</p><p>I am sure it is a common tactic. The point is new codecs want to avoid it – at least try anyway.</p><p>Thanks<br /> Bill</div> <a rel="nofollow" class="comment-reply-login" href="https://www.physicsforums.com/insights/wp-login.php?redirect_to=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.physicsforums.com%2Finsights%2Flcevc-8k-tv%2F">Log in to Reply</a></div></div></article></div></li><li class="comment byuser comment-author-bhobba bypostauthor even thread-even depth-1" id="li-comment-12585"><div id="comment-12585"><article><div class="gravatar"></div><div class='comment_content'><header class="comment-header" aria-label="Comment Info" > <cite class="author_name heading"><cite class="comment_author_name">bhobba</cite></cite> <span class="says">says:</span><div class="comment-meta commentmetadata"> <a href="https://www.physicsforums.com/insights/lcevc-8k-tv/#comment-12585"> <time > July 2, 2021 at 1:32 am </time> </a></div></header><div class='comment_text entry-content-wrapper clearfix' ><div class="bbWrapper">"<br /> Yes, but that is what people were doing in the 1990s. The text is written as if this was a new idea for H266.<br /> "<br /> Many compression ideas have been around for a long time – many over the 20 years royalties apply. The simple compression method I gave is just one of them. That is the idea behind the EVC baseline I mentioned. It uses nothing but ideas whose patent/royalty has expired. The interesting thing about EVC (baseline) is that it encodes very fast and has compression efficiency nearly as good as HEVC, loaded with royalty problems. In fact, perceptually, it could be as good as HEVC:</p><p><span data-s9e-mediaembed="youtube"><span><iframe allowfullscreen="" scrolling="no" allow="autoplay" style="background:linear-gradient(0deg,rgba(0,0,0,0) 0,rgba(0,0,0,0) 72%,rgba(0,0,0,.04) 79%,rgba(0,0,0,.1) 83%,rgba(0,0,0,.25) 88%,rgba(0,0,0,.67) 100%),url(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/oTXbl2e7ufU/hqdefault.jpg) 50% 50% / cover" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/oTXbl2e7ufU" data-s9e-mediaembed-c2l="youtube" data-s9e-mediaembed-c2l-oembed-id="oTXbl2e7ufU" data-s9e-mediaembed-c2l-src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/oTXbl2e7ufU?autoplay=1"></iframe></span></span></p><p> HEVC bought about the paradigm shift to considering patent/royalty issues. It used a lot of then-new ideas in the standard, which was ratified in 2013. At first, everything was fine, but the patent holders of those ideas were 'sneaky'. What they did is wait until HEVC was widely adapted. Then wham – hit users with royalties for their patent. I have heard in discussions (but do not hold me to it) big companies like Samsung have teams of lawyers just working on that alone. Nobody (except maybe the patent holders) wants a repeat of that debacle. That is not to say HEVC will not be in use for some time. At the moment, X264 is the dominant codec, but it is expected over the next few years, HEVC will be the dominant codec – then it too will fade, being replaced by newer codecs. But the lesson has been learned – royalties must be simplified, and a lot of effort is going into doing just that. VVC is the natural successor to HEVC and builds on it. In doing so, it is loaded with the same royalty issues as HEVC. The codec developers are aware of it and will do all they can to ensure it is manageable. But it may not succeed. EVC handles it differently by having the baseline and the main profile. The main profile uses techniques that can be switched on or off. If the same royalty tactics that were used with HEVC is tried, they switch it off.</p><p>Then we have AV1:<br /> <a href="https://research.mozilla.org/av1-media-codecs/" target="_blank" class="link link--external" rel="nofollow ugc noopener">https://research.mozilla.org/av1-media-codecs/</a></p><p>Everything in it is royalty-free. It compresses better than the EVC baseline. Its problem is compression time – it is horrid. Work is being done to reduce it, with some success. Many think it will become the dominant codec.</p><p>Now let's return to LCEVC. The straightforward compression method I detailed is likely royalty-free. But the tricks developed by V-Nova to make it better are not. V-Nova is very aware of the royalty issue and has released the royalties they will charge, which the industry, in general, seems to be happy with:<br /> <a href="https://www.streamingmedia.com/Articles/ReadArticle.aspx?ArticleID=147003" target="_blank" class="link link--external" rel="nofollow ugc noopener">https://www.streamingmedia.com/Articles/ReadArticle.aspx?ArticleID=147003</a></p><p>Although I mentioned baseline EVC in my insights article, many think it is a natural fit for AV1. But when operating at 1/4 resolution, the differences in codec compression efficiency not as big an issue – it exists, of course, but the information in the enhancement layer compensates to some extent – it is the same regardless of codec. The big benefit of using LCEVC with the newer codecs is that encoding time is drastically reduced as it operates at lower resolutions. So by using AV1 at 1/4 resolution encoding, AV1 encoding time is manageable. Also, AV1 is a complex codec, where a lot can go wrong and frame dropouts occur. Experiments using it with and without LCEVC has been interesting:<br /> <a href="https://www.lcevc.org/wp-content/uploads/AV1-with-LCEVC-pub-1.pdf" target="_blank" class="link link--external" rel="nofollow ugc noopener">https://www.lcevc.org/wp-content/uploads/AV1-with-LCEVC-pub-1.pdf</a></p><p>With a royalty structure the industry is happy with, the increase in compression efficiency, reduction in encoding time and dropout reduction in complex codecs, LCEVC looks to have a bright future.</p><p>Thanks<br /> Bill</div> <a rel="nofollow" class="comment-reply-login" href="https://www.physicsforums.com/insights/wp-login.php?redirect_to=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.physicsforums.com%2Finsights%2Flcevc-8k-tv%2F">Log in to Reply</a></div></div></article></div></li><li class="comment byuser comment-author-bhobba bypostauthor odd alt thread-odd thread-alt depth-1" id="li-comment-12583"><div id="comment-12583"><article><div class="gravatar"></div><div class='comment_content'><header class="comment-header" aria-label="Comment Info" > <cite class="author_name heading"><cite class="comment_author_name">bhobba</cite></cite> <span class="says">says:</span><div class="comment-meta commentmetadata"> <a href="https://www.physicsforums.com/insights/lcevc-8k-tv/#comment-12583"> <time > June 30, 2021 at 11:58 am </time> </a></div></header><div class='comment_text entry-content-wrapper clearfix' ><div class="bbWrapper">"<br /> Some of the information above reads rather strangely. The stuff about downscaling the video and sending the high frequencies separately is a tautology: We compressed the file by separating the high frequencies and compressing them. But how?<br /> "<br /> Here is a simple explanation. Indeed downscaling means getting rid of the high-frequency information. One way of doing it is to average 4 pixels and send that. That downscales it by 2. Then to upscale it back, duplicate each pixel 4 times. But you have lost the 'high frequency' or 'detail' information. To restore that, you transmit the difference between the average in the downscaled 4 pixels and the original image. It is a better way of doing it since normal compressing methods are not efficient at compressing the high frequency or 'detail' information. An interesting thing about videos is the 'detail' information (i.e. high-frequency information) is sparse – i.e. is mostly zeros. This allows very efficient run-length encoding to be used:<br /> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Run-length_encoding" target="_blank" class="link link--external" rel="nofollow ugc noopener">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Run-length_encoding</a></p><p>The above would work, but various tricks can be used to make it even better. One trick is to use bicubic (or others) upscaling and downscaling:<br /> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image_scaling" target="_blank" class="link link--external" rel="nofollow ugc noopener">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image_scaling</a></p><p>The difference information would be smaller, so it is more efficient.</p><p>A very sophisticated method would be using AI (in this context, a Convolutional Neural Network). That would be something like Tad-Tau I mentioned before:<br /> <a href="https://cv.snu.ac.kr/research/taid/" target="_blank" class="link link--external" rel="nofollow ugc noopener">https://cv.snu.ac.kr/research/taid/</a></p><p>Still, other tricks can be used. For example, guessing the difference from pixels near it and the previous frame.</p><p>All these can be used in LCEVC – the detail can be found in the patent I linked to. As I posted, the bottom line is that using the HEVC codec and LCEVC; one can transmit a virtually identical 8k picture (93 VMAF) at 20mbs. The modern measure of how good a video is perceptually is called VMAF. Anything above 93 is considered imperceptibly different from the original. It is the early stages of LCEVC use, and things will get better. But as of now, 8k is possible at speeds a lot of people have.</p><p>HEVC is a 'failure' because of royalty problems, not technical issues:<br /> <a href="https://www.streamingmedia.com/Articles/ReadArticle.aspx?ArticleID=122983" target="_blank" class="link link--external" rel="nofollow ugc noopener">https://www.streamingmedia.com/Articles/ReadArticle.aspx?ArticleID=122983</a></p><p>Thanks<br /> Bill</div> <a rel="nofollow" class="comment-reply-login" href="https://www.physicsforums.com/insights/wp-login.php?redirect_to=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.physicsforums.com%2Finsights%2Flcevc-8k-tv%2F">Log in to Reply</a></div></div></article></div></li></ol></div><div class="comment_container"><h3 class='miniheading '>Leave a Reply</h3><span class="minitext">Want to join the discussion?<br />Feel free to contribute!</span><div id="respond" class="comment-respond"><h3 id="reply-title" class="comment-reply-title">Leave a Reply <small><a rel="nofollow" id="cancel-comment-reply-link" href="/insights/lcevc-8k-tv/#respond" style="display:none;">Cancel reply</a></small></h3><p class="must-log-in">You must be <a href="https://www.physicsforums.com/insights/wp-login.php?redirect_to=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.physicsforums.com%2Finsights%2Flcevc-8k-tv%2F">logged in</a> to post a comment.</p></div></div></div></main><aside class='sidebar sidebar_right smartphones_sidebar_active alpha units' aria-label="Sidebar" role="complementary" itemscope="itemscope" itemtype="https://schema.org/WPSideBar" ><div class="inner_sidebar extralight-border"><section id="custom_html-2" class="widget_text widget clearfix widget_custom_html"><div class="textwidget custom-html-widget"><h2 class="widgettitle">Trending Articles</h2><ul class="wpp-list wpp-sunset"><li class="" style="--item-position: 1;--total-items: 10"><div class="item-position"></div><div class="item-data"><a href="https://www.physicsforums.com/insights/what-is-a-tensor/" class="wpp-post-title" target="_self">What Is a Tensor? 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