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class="vector-toc-numb">4</span> <span>Mother Earth</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">3 comments</span> <ul id="toc-Mother_Earth-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Europa" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1 vector-toc-list-item-expanded"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Europa"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">5</span> <span>Europa</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">3 comments</span> <ul id="toc-Europa-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Country_articles" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1 vector-toc-list-item-expanded"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Country_articles"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">6</span> <span>Country articles</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">6 comments</span> <ul id="toc-Country_articles-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> 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class="vector-body" aria-labelledby="firstHeading" data-mw-ve-target-container> <div class="vector-body-before-content"> <div class="mw-indicators"> </div> <div id="siteSub" class="noprint">From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia</div> </div> <div id="contentSub"><div id="mw-content-subtitle"></div></div> <div id="mw-content-text" class="mw-body-content"><div class="mw-content-ltr mw-parser-output" lang="en" dir="ltr"><meta property="mw:PageProp/toc" /> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="New_template_creation" data-mw-thread-id="h-New_template_creation-2009-09-14T04:58:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-New_template_creation-2009-09-14T04:58:00.000Z"></span>New template creation<span data-mw-comment-end="h-New_template_creation-2009-09-14T04:58:00.000Z"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Template_talk:National_personifications&action=edit&section=1" title="Edit section: New template creation"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Paine_Ellsworth-2009-09-14T04:58:00.000Z-New_template_creation"></span>Just created a new template to replace the one that was limited. If you check the <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Template:National_personifications&diff=prev&oldid=313556577">history</a>, you'll find that a standard Navbox template was being used. An editor had added a 21st nation, which, because they are alphabetized, pushed the US into the 21st position. Well, evidently the standard Navbox only allows 20 positions, because the US (<a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Template:National_personifications&action=edit&oldid=313556577">"Edit this page"</a>: Look for a "group21" and a "list21".) was not visibly showing after the UK entry. So I created a template that can be expanded beyond 20 nations. I also turned it into a two-column list to decrease the length. In the process of building this template I improved several of the related articles with stub templates and by adding the [[<span style="color:blue;">Category:National personifications</span>]] to the articles that lacked it, as well as several minor edits. This was <b>great</b> fun!<br />  —  Paine (<a href="/wiki/User:Paine_Ellsworth" title="User:Paine Ellsworth"><span style="color: darkblue; font-size: small; font-family: Ariel">Ellsworth's</span></a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Paine_Ellsworth" title="User talk:Paine Ellsworth"><span style="color: blue; font-family: Ariel">Climax</span></a>)  <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:National_personifications#c-Paine_Ellsworth-2009-09-14T04:58:00.000Z-New_template_creation" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">04:58, 14 September 2009 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Paine_Ellsworth-2009-09-14T04:58:00.000Z-New_template_creation"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Paine_Ellsworth-2009-09-14T04:58:00.000Z-New_template_creation"></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Template_additions_(new_countries)" data-mw-thread-id="h-Template_additions_(new_countries)-2009-09-28T05:30:00.000Z"><span id="Template_additions_.28new_countries.29"></span><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Template_additions_(new_countries)-2009-09-28T05:30:00.000Z"></span>Template additions (new countries)<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Template_additions_(new_countries)-2009-09-28T05:30:00.000Z"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Template_talk:National_personifications&action=edit&section=2" title="Edit section: Template additions (new countries)"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Paine_Ellsworth-2009-09-28T05:30:00.000Z-Template_additions_(new_countries)"></span>Yes, it is presently difficult to add countries to this Navbar. I just added <a href="/wiki/Australia" title="Australia">Australia</a>, along with their <a href="/wiki/Boxing_kangaroo" title="Boxing kangaroo">Boxing kangaroo</a>, and it was definitely a teejus task. So I just want you to know that I'm working on this problem.<br />  —  Paine (<a href="/wiki/User:Paine_Ellsworth" title="User:Paine Ellsworth"><span style="color: darkblue; font-size: small; font-family: Ariel">Ellsworth's</span></a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Paine_Ellsworth" title="User talk:Paine Ellsworth"><span style="color: blue; font-family: Ariel">Climax</span></a>)  <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:National_personifications#c-Paine_Ellsworth-2009-09-28T05:30:00.000Z-Template_additions_(new_countries)" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">05:30, 28 September 2009 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Paine_Ellsworth-2009-09-28T05:30:00.000Z-Template_additions_(new_countries)"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Paine_Ellsworth-2009-09-28T05:30:00.000Z-Template_additions_(new_countries)"></span> </p><p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Paine_Ellsworth-2009-10-03T11:32:00.000Z-Template_additions_(new_countries)"></span>I promised a new and improved template, one that is easier to edit in (add) new countries and their national personifications, and I have just finished it as promised. This new template is still a table-class Navbar. What I did was to separate the two columns into two separate "sister" tables, and then imbed them within a "mother" table. You'll see a few minor benefits and improvements. The biggest advantage is that it will now be <i>so</i> much easier for editors to add their own countries and their national personifications to the Navbar, or for them to add other countries' national personifications if they happen to come across them. <a href="/wiki/National_personifications" class="mw-redirect" title="National personifications">There are still some on this page</a> that I haven't gotten to yet, just in case you would like to give it a try. Best of everything to all who read this!<br />  —  Paine (<a href="/wiki/User:Paine_Ellsworth" title="User:Paine Ellsworth"><span style="color: darkblue; font-size: small; font-family: Ariel">Ellsworth's</span></a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Paine_Ellsworth" title="User talk:Paine Ellsworth"><span style="color: blue; font-family: Ariel">Climax</span></a>)  <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:National_personifications#c-Paine_Ellsworth-2009-10-03T11:32:00.000Z-Template_additions_(new_countries)" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">11:32, 3 October 2009 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Paine_Ellsworth-2009-10-03T11:32:00.000Z-Template_additions_(new_countries)"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Paine_Ellsworth-2009-10-03T11:32:00.000Z-Template_additions_(new_countries)"></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Lady_Liberty" data-mw-thread-id="h-Lady_Liberty-2009-10-04T01:42:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Lady_Liberty-2009-10-04T01:42:00.000Z"></span>Lady Liberty<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Lady_Liberty-2009-10-04T01:42:00.000Z"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Template_talk:National_personifications&action=edit&section=3" title="Edit section: Lady Liberty"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Paine_Ellsworth-2009-10-04T01:42:00.000Z-Lady_Liberty"></span>RandomCritic, in all honesty I can't belabor the point about the Statue of Liberty (Lady Liberty) not a personification of the US. I found several verifications of the statue personifying "liberty", but none that could make a case for Lady Liberty personifying the US itself. So I stand corrected.<br />  —  Paine (<a href="/wiki/User:Paine_Ellsworth" title="User:Paine Ellsworth"><span style="color: darkblue; font-size: small; font-family: Ariel">Ellsworth's</span></a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Paine_Ellsworth" title="User talk:Paine Ellsworth"><span style="color: blue; font-family: Ariel">Climax</span></a>)  <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:National_personifications#c-Paine_Ellsworth-2009-10-04T01:42:00.000Z-Lady_Liberty" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:42, 4 October 2009 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Paine_Ellsworth-2009-10-04T01:42:00.000Z-Lady_Liberty"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Paine_Ellsworth-2009-10-04T01:42:00.000Z-Lady_Liberty"></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Mother_Earth" data-mw-thread-id="h-Mother_Earth-2009-12-26T06:41:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Mother_Earth-2009-12-26T06:41:00.000Z"></span>Mother Earth<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Mother_Earth-2009-12-26T06:41:00.000Z"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Template_talk:National_personifications&action=edit&section=4" title="Edit section: Mother Earth"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Paine_Ellsworth-2009-12-26T06:41:00.000Z-Mother_Earth"></span>This a template about personifications invented by national entities. "Mother Earth", a personification of Earth and Nature, was also invented by national entities. Therefore "Mother Earth" has a place in this group of personifications. Since it cannot be tied to any one nation, its place is in a section of its own, which is why it has been placed in the "below" bar.  —  Paine (<a href="/wiki/User:Paine_Ellsworth" title="User:Paine Ellsworth"><span style="color: darkblue; font-size: small; font-family: Ariel">Ellsworth's</span></a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Paine_Ellsworth" title="User talk:Paine Ellsworth"><span style="color: blue; font-family: Ariel">Climax</span></a>)  <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:National_personifications#c-Paine_Ellsworth-2009-12-26T06:41:00.000Z-Mother_Earth" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">06:41, 26 December 2009 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Paine_Ellsworth-2009-12-26T06:41:00.000Z-Mother_Earth"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Paine_Ellsworth-2009-12-26T06:41:00.000Z-Mother_Earth"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-LlywelynII-2010-02-02T09:41:00.000Z-Paine_Ellsworth-2009-12-26T06:41:00.000Z"></span>Mother Earth was <i>not</i> an invention of national entities and is not a representative of any culture or group of people. She's a mythological figure or motif arising from primitive analogy between <a href="/wiki/Insemination" title="Insemination">insemination</a> and <a href="/wiki/Germination" title="Germination">germination</a> and has no place in this template above or below the bar. If the UN ever gets a cuddly mascot (Bono the Bureaucrat?), come back and add <i>it</i>. -<a href="/wiki/User:LlywelynII" title="User:LlywelynII">LlywelynII</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:LlywelynII" title="User talk:LlywelynII">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:National_personifications#c-LlywelynII-2010-02-02T09:41:00.000Z-Paine_Ellsworth-2009-12-26T06:41:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">09:41, 2 February 2010 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-LlywelynII-2010-02-02T09:41:00.000Z-Paine_Ellsworth-2009-12-26T06:41:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-LlywelynII-2010-02-02T09:41:00.000Z-Paine_Ellsworth-2009-12-26T06:41:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Paine_Ellsworth-2010-02-05T02:54:00.000Z-LlywelynII-2010-02-02T09:41:00.000Z"></span>I'm sure you read the <a href="/wiki/Mother_Nature" title="Mother Nature">Mother Earth</a> article, so I do not understand how you can seem to blow this off so easily? ALL the personifications are mythological figures or motifs! ALL the personifications arise from one primitive analogy or another! Mother Earth (or Mother Nature if one prefers) most <i><b>definitely</b></i> belongs on this template!</dd></dl></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd>However, since you are the second editor to protest, I shall not add it back in. I do hope you will reconsider your position. Thank you very much!</dd> <dd> —  Paine (<a href="/wiki/User:Paine_Ellsworth" title="User:Paine Ellsworth"><span style="color: darkblue; font-size: small; font-family: Ariel">Ellsworth's</span></a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Paine_Ellsworth" title="User talk:Paine Ellsworth"><span style="color: blue; font-family: Ariel">Climax</span></a>)  <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:National_personifications#c-Paine_Ellsworth-2010-02-05T02:54:00.000Z-LlywelynII-2010-02-02T09:41:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:54, 5 February 2010 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Paine_Ellsworth-2010-02-05T02:54:00.000Z-LlywelynII-2010-02-02T09:41:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Paine_Ellsworth-2010-02-05T02:54:00.000Z-LlywelynII-2010-02-02T09:41:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Europa" data-mw-thread-id="h-Europa-2010-02-02T09:50:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Europa-2010-02-02T09:50:00.000Z"></span>Europa<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Europa-2010-02-02T09:50:00.000Z"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Template_talk:National_personifications&action=edit&section=5" title="Edit section: Europa"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-LlywelynII-2010-02-02T09:50:00.000Z-Europa"></span>On the other hand, a link to <a href="/wiki/European_symbols#Europa" class="mw-redirect" title="European symbols">Europa</a> doesn't seem out of order. Are there other transnational symbols (e.g., Columbia for all of the Americas?) to include as a new section? or just tack her on to the end where Mother Earth was? -<a href="/wiki/User:LlywelynII" title="User:LlywelynII">LlywelynII</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:LlywelynII" title="User talk:LlywelynII">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:National_personifications#c-LlywelynII-2010-02-02T09:50:00.000Z-Europa" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">09:50, 2 February 2010 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-LlywelynII-2010-02-02T09:50:00.000Z-Europa"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-LlywelynII-2010-02-02T09:50:00.000Z-Europa"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Paine_Ellsworth-2010-02-05T03:12:00.000Z-LlywelynII-2010-02-02T09:50:00.000Z"></span>I can find that Europa, also out of <i>mythology</i>, was a Phoenician princess; however, I cannot find any reference to her as a "personification" of Europe. Have you found such a reference? If so, and if you reconsider your opinion about Mother Earth/Mother Nature, then perhaps both of them would be appropriate for the "Below" section?</dd></dl> <dl><dd>Also, I find in the <a href="/wiki/Columbia_(name)" class="mw-redirect" title="Columbia (name)">Columbia</a> article that she definitely is a <i>personification</i> of the USA. So when I get time, I shall add Columbia, unless you would like to do the honors, LlywelynII.</dd> <dd> —  Paine (<a href="/wiki/User:Paine_Ellsworth" title="User:Paine Ellsworth"><span style="color: darkblue; font-size: small; font-family: Ariel">Ellsworth's</span></a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Paine_Ellsworth" title="User talk:Paine Ellsworth"><span style="color: blue; font-family: Ariel">Climax</span></a>)  <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:National_personifications#c-Paine_Ellsworth-2010-02-05T03:12:00.000Z-LlywelynII-2010-02-02T09:50:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">03:12, 5 February 2010 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Paine_Ellsworth-2010-02-05T03:12:00.000Z-LlywelynII-2010-02-02T09:50:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Paine_Ellsworth-2010-02-05T03:12:00.000Z-LlywelynII-2010-02-02T09:50:00.000Z"></span></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Ssolbergj-2010-12-29T23:00:00.000Z-LlywelynII-2010-02-02T09:50:00.000Z"></span>You should check out <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="http://europesname.eu/">this website</a>, it has tens of images showing Europa's historical role as a personification of Europe. - <span style="font-variant:small-caps; text-shadow:blue 0em 0em 0.2em; font-style:italic"><a href="/wiki/User:Ssolbergj" class="mw-redirect" title="User:Ssolbergj">SSJ</a> <sup><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Ssolbergj" title="User talk:Ssolbergj">t</a></sup></span> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:National_personifications#c-Ssolbergj-2010-12-29T23:00:00.000Z-LlywelynII-2010-02-02T09:50:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:00, 29 December 2010 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Ssolbergj-2010-12-29T23:00:00.000Z-LlywelynII-2010-02-02T09:50:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Ssolbergj-2010-12-29T23:00:00.000Z-LlywelynII-2010-02-02T09:50:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Country_articles" data-mw-thread-id="h-Country_articles-2010-01-09T01:15:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Country_articles-2010-01-09T01:15:00.000Z"></span>Country articles<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Country_articles-2010-01-09T01:15:00.000Z"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Template_talk:National_personifications&action=edit&section=6" title="Edit section: Country articles"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Apoc2400-2010-01-09T01:15:00.000Z-Country_articles"></span>This is interesting, but not very relevant at the bottom of country articles. I will remove it from there. --<a href="/wiki/User:Apoc2400" title="User:Apoc2400">Apoc2400</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Apoc2400" title="User talk:Apoc2400">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:National_personifications#c-Apoc2400-2010-01-09T01:15:00.000Z-Country_articles" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:15, 9 January 2010 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Apoc2400-2010-01-09T01:15:00.000Z-Country_articles"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Apoc2400-2010-01-09T01:15:00.000Z-Country_articles"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Paine_Ellsworth-2010-01-11T01:32:00.000Z-Apoc2400-2010-01-09T01:15:00.000Z"></span>Why? It is very relevant to the country articles to include their national personifications! Please allow them to keep this marked improvement!</dd> <dd> —  Paine (<a href="/wiki/User:Paine_Ellsworth" title="User:Paine Ellsworth"><span style="color: darkblue; font-size: small; font-family: Ariel">Ellsworth's</span></a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Paine_Ellsworth" title="User talk:Paine Ellsworth"><span style="color: blue; font-family: Ariel">Climax</span></a>)  <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:National_personifications#c-Paine_Ellsworth-2010-01-11T01:32:00.000Z-Apoc2400-2010-01-09T01:15:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:32, 11 January 2010 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Paine_Ellsworth-2010-01-11T01:32:00.000Z-Apoc2400-2010-01-09T01:15:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Paine_Ellsworth-2010-01-11T01:32:00.000Z-Apoc2400-2010-01-09T01:15:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Apoc2400-2010-01-11T01:40:00.000Z-Paine_Ellsworth-2010-01-11T01:32:00.000Z"></span>Mentioning that countrys national personification would make sense, but not a box with other countries personifications. This template is fine in the articles about personifications though. --<a href="/wiki/User:Apoc2400" title="User:Apoc2400">Apoc2400</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Apoc2400" title="User talk:Apoc2400">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:National_personifications#c-Apoc2400-2010-01-11T01:40:00.000Z-Paine_Ellsworth-2010-01-11T01:32:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:40, 11 January 2010 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Apoc2400-2010-01-11T01:40:00.000Z-Paine_Ellsworth-2010-01-11T01:32:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Apoc2400-2010-01-11T01:40:00.000Z-Paine_Ellsworth-2010-01-11T01:32:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Paine_Ellsworth-2010-01-11T01:55:00.000Z-Apoc2400-2010-01-11T01:40:00.000Z"></span>The reason that I believe that this template improves the national pages is that it shows readers <i><b>of those countries</b></i>, who come and read Wikipedia, that they're not the only ones who have a personification of their country. They are shown that it is a common and good thing to personify their nation. I think this template promotes more friendliness in the world!</dd> <dd> —  Paine (<a href="/wiki/User:Paine_Ellsworth" title="User:Paine Ellsworth"><span style="color: darkblue; font-size: small; font-family: Ariel">Ellsworth's</span></a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Paine_Ellsworth" title="User talk:Paine Ellsworth"><span style="color: blue; font-family: Ariel">Climax</span></a>)  <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:National_personifications#c-Paine_Ellsworth-2010-01-11T01:55:00.000Z-Apoc2400-2010-01-11T01:40:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:55, 11 January 2010 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Paine_Ellsworth-2010-01-11T01:55:00.000Z-Apoc2400-2010-01-11T01:40:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Paine_Ellsworth-2010-01-11T01:55:00.000Z-Apoc2400-2010-01-11T01:40:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-LlywelynII-2010-02-02T09:53:00.000Z-Paine_Ellsworth-2010-01-11T01:55:00.000Z"></span>He's right. The appropriate thing to do would be to be sure to mention and link the country's personifications on the its page (eg, I'd never heard of <a href="/wiki/Brother_Jonathan" title="Brother Jonathan">Brother Jonathan</a> before seeing this template) and then include this template only on the personification's page, so you see it once you click through. It might also be appropriate on some pages about national culture and transnational organizations. -<a href="/wiki/User:LlywelynII" title="User:LlywelynII">LlywelynII</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:LlywelynII" title="User talk:LlywelynII">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:National_personifications#c-LlywelynII-2010-02-02T09:53:00.000Z-Paine_Ellsworth-2010-01-11T01:55:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">09:53, 2 February 2010 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-LlywelynII-2010-02-02T09:53:00.000Z-Paine_Ellsworth-2010-01-11T01:55:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-LlywelynII-2010-02-02T09:53:00.000Z-Paine_Ellsworth-2010-01-11T01:55:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Paine_Ellsworth-2010-02-05T02:47:00.000Z-LlywelynII-2010-02-02T09:53:00.000Z"></span>Again, I must disagree. By your own admission, you learned something by seeing this template, something that you didn't know yesterday. Isn't this what we're all about? Informing the readers? If a reader can walk away from Wikipedia thinking, 'I learned something new today,' then haven't we done our jobs as editors? This template is an improvement to all of the articles it links to.</dd> <dd> —  Paine (<a href="/wiki/User:Paine_Ellsworth" title="User:Paine Ellsworth"><span style="color: darkblue; font-size: small; font-family: Ariel">Ellsworth's</span></a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Paine_Ellsworth" title="User talk:Paine Ellsworth"><span style="color: blue; font-family: Ariel">Climax</span></a>)  <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:National_personifications#c-Paine_Ellsworth-2010-02-05T02:47:00.000Z-LlywelynII-2010-02-02T09:53:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:47, 5 February 2010 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Paine_Ellsworth-2010-02-05T02:47:00.000Z-LlywelynII-2010-02-02T09:53:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Paine_Ellsworth-2010-02-05T02:47:00.000Z-LlywelynII-2010-02-02T09:53:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Ukraine" data-mw-thread-id="h-Ukraine-2010-02-22T21:04:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Ukraine-2010-02-22T21:04:00.000Z"></span>Ukraine<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Ukraine-2010-02-22T21:04:00.000Z"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Template_talk:National_personifications&action=edit&section=7" title="Edit section: Ukraine"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Yonkie-2010-02-22T21:04:00.000Z-Ukraine"></span>Is it worth to add? <a href="/wiki/Mother_Motherland,_Kiev" class="mw-redirect" title="Mother Motherland, Kiev">Mother Motherland, Kiev</a> --<a href="/wiki/User:Yonkie" title="User:Yonkie">Yonkie</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Yonkie" title="User talk:Yonkie">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:National_personifications#c-Yonkie-2010-02-22T21:04:00.000Z-Ukraine" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:04, 22 February 2010 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Yonkie-2010-02-22T21:04:00.000Z-Ukraine"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Yonkie-2010-02-22T21:04:00.000Z-Ukraine"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Paine_Ellsworth-2010-02-24T03:11:00.000Z-Yonkie-2010-02-22T21:04:00.000Z"></span>Hi, Yonkie. My understanding is that most of the links involved are to sculptures with the name "Mother Motherland", and that Mother Motherland was used in place of Mother Russia (already included in this template) while the USSR was still intact. Does <a href="/wiki/Cossack_Mamay" title="Cossack Mamay">Cossack Mamay</a> hold a position as a national personification of Ukraine? Would that not be a better choice than Mother Motherland? If so, then I support the addition of Cossack Mamay.</dd> <dd> —  Paine (<a href="/wiki/User:Paine_Ellsworth" title="User:Paine Ellsworth"><span style="color: darkblue; font-size: small; font-family: Ariel">Ellsworth's</span></a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Paine_Ellsworth" title="User talk:Paine Ellsworth"><span style="color: blue; font-family: Ariel">Climax</span></a>)  <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:National_personifications#c-Paine_Ellsworth-2010-02-24T03:11:00.000Z-Yonkie-2010-02-22T21:04:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">03:11, 24 February 2010 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Paine_Ellsworth-2010-02-24T03:11:00.000Z-Yonkie-2010-02-22T21:04:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Paine_Ellsworth-2010-02-24T03:11:00.000Z-Yonkie-2010-02-22T21:04:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Animal_as_national_personification?" data-mw-thread-id="h-Animal_as_national_personification?-2010-07-06T14:34:00.000Z"><span id="Animal_as_national_personification.3F"></span><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Animal_as_national_personification?-2010-07-06T14:34:00.000Z"></span>Animal as national personification?<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Animal_as_national_personification?-2010-07-06T14:34:00.000Z"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Template_talk:National_personifications&action=edit&section=8" title="Edit section: Animal as national personification?"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Gunkarta-2010-07-06T14:34:00.000Z-Animal_as_national_personification?"></span>Did animal or national animal passed to be a National Personification? For example that <a href="/wiki/Boxing_Kangaroo" class="mw-redirect" title="Boxing Kangaroo">Boxing Kangaroo</a> for Australia. Nobody will doubt that <a href="/wiki/Uncle_Sam" title="Uncle Sam">Uncle Sam</a> is USA National Personification, but how about Bald Eagle? also UK's <a href="/wiki/Lion_and_Unicorn" class="mw-redirect" title="Lion and Unicorn">Lion and Unicorn</a> and Malaysian <a href="/wiki/Harimau_Malaya" class="mw-redirect" title="Harimau Malaya">Harimau Malaya</a>, it's national animal, not national personification. If animal is not valid, I suggest to remove all animal-based National personification since it is about person. (<a href="/wiki/User:Gunkarta" title="User:Gunkarta">Gunkarta</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Gunkarta" title="User talk:Gunkarta">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:National_personifications#c-Gunkarta-2010-07-06T14:34:00.000Z-Animal_as_national_personification?" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">14:34, 6 July 2010 (UTC)</a>).<span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Gunkarta-2010-07-06T14:34:00.000Z-Animal_as_national_personification?"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Gunkarta-2010-07-06T14:34:00.000Z-Animal_as_national_personification?"></span> </p> <dl><dd><dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-RandomCritic-2010-07-06T20:28:00.000Z-Gunkarta-2010-07-06T14:34:00.000Z"></span>It seems reasonable that a national <i>personification</i> should be limited to a representation of a <i>person</i>. <a href="/wiki/User:RandomCritic" title="User:RandomCritic">RandomCritic</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:RandomCritic" title="User talk:RandomCritic">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:National_personifications#c-RandomCritic-2010-07-06T20:28:00.000Z-Gunkarta-2010-07-06T14:34:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:28, 6 July 2010 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-RandomCritic-2010-07-06T20:28:00.000Z-Gunkarta-2010-07-06T14:34:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-RandomCritic-2010-07-06T20:28:00.000Z-Gunkarta-2010-07-06T14:34:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Condensing?" data-mw-thread-id="h-Condensing?-2017-01-27T14:19:00.000Z"><span id="Condensing.3F"></span><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Condensing?-2017-01-27T14:19:00.000Z"></span>Condensing?<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Condensing?-2017-01-27T14:19:00.000Z"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Template_talk:National_personifications&action=edit&section=9" title="Edit section: Condensing?"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-46.226.49.232-2017-01-27T14:19:00.000Z-Condensing?"></span>Should we consider flags instead of each country name? The template is getting longer and longer. <small class="autosigned">— Preceding <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Signatures" title="Wikipedia:Signatures">unsigned</a> comment added by <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/46.226.49.232" title="Special:Contributions/46.226.49.232">46.226.49.232</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:46.226.49.232#top" title="User talk:46.226.49.232">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:National_personifications#c-46.226.49.232-2017-01-27T14:19:00.000Z-Condensing?" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">14:19, 27 January 2017 (UTC)</a></small><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-46.226.49.232-2017-01-27T14:19:00.000Z-Condensing?"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-46.226.49.232-2017-01-27T14:19:00.000Z-Condensing?"></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Gods" data-mw-thread-id="h-Gods-20240320090100"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Gods-20240320090100"></span>Gods<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Gods-20240320090100"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Template_talk:National_personifications&action=edit&section=10" title="Edit section: Gods"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-49.255.252.131-20240320090100-Gods"></span>Why are there gods in the list? Surely national deities is a different concept to national personifications. Otherwise why don't you have national deities of every nation in the old world in the list? --<a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/49.255.252.131" title="Special:Contributions/49.255.252.131">49.255.252.131</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:49.255.252.131" title="User talk:49.255.252.131">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:National_personifications#c-49.255.252.131-20240320090100-Gods" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">09:01, 20 March 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-49.255.252.131-20240320090100-Gods"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-49.255.252.131-20240320090100-Gods"></span> </p>    </div><noscript><img src="https://login.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:CentralAutoLogin/start?useformat=desktop&type=1x1&usesul3=0" alt="" width="1" height="1" style="border: none; position: absolute;"></noscript> <div class="printfooter" data-nosnippet="">Retrieved from "<a dir="ltr" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Template_talk:National_personifications&oldid=1214654323">https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Template_talk:National_personifications&oldid=1214654323</a>"</div></div> <div id="catlinks" class="catlinks catlinks-allhidden" data-mw="interface"></div> </div> </main> </div> <div class="mw-footer-container"> <footer id="footer" class="mw-footer" > <ul id="footer-info"> <li id="footer-info-lastmod"> This page was last edited on 20 March 2024, at 09:01<span class="anonymous-show"> (UTC)</span>.</li> <li id="footer-info-copyright">Text is available under the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Text_of_the_Creative_Commons_Attribution-ShareAlike_4.0_International_License" title="Wikipedia:Text of the Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike 4.0 International License">Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike 4.0 License</a>; additional terms may apply. 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