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If you would like to support the project, please visit the project page, where you can get more details on how you can help, and where you can join the <b><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Philosophy" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Philosophy">general discussion</a></b> about philosophy content on Wikipedia.<span class="metadata wpb-metadata"><span class="wpb-project">Philosophy</span><span class="wpb-project_link">Wikipedia:WikiProject Philosophy</span><span class="wpb-banner_name">Template:WikiProject Philosophy</span><span class="wpb-assessment_cat">Philosophy articles</span></span></td><td class="mbox-empty-cell"></td></tr><tr><td colspan="3" class="wpb-collapsed-notes"><table class="mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"><tbody><tr><th colspan="3" class="wpb-collapsed-head">Associated task forces:</th></tr><tr><td class="mbox-image wpb-gutter" style="min-width:50px"><span class="wpb-iefix">/ </span></td><td></td><td></td></tr><tr><td><figure class="mw-halign-center" typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Location_dot_dark_red.svg" class="mw-file-description"><img alt="Taskforce icon" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c3/Location_dot_dark_red.svg/15px-Location_dot_dark_red.svg.png" decoding="async" width="15" height="15" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c3/Location_dot_dark_red.svg/23px-Location_dot_dark_red.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c3/Location_dot_dark_red.svg/30px-Location_dot_dark_red.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="30" data-file-height="30"/></a><figcaption></figcaption></figure></td><td class="mbox-text" colspan="2"><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Philosophy/Religion" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Philosophy/Religion">Philosophy of religion</a></td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr></tbody></table> <meta property="mw:PageProp/toc"/> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Like_it!" data-mw-thread-id="h-Like_it!-2007-09-08T23:51:00.000Z"><span id="Like_it.21"></span><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Like_it!-2007-09-08T23:51:00.000Z"></span>Like it!<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Like_it!-2007-09-08T23:51:00.000Z"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Template_talk:Irreligion&action=edit&section=1" title="Edit section: Like it!"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><a href="/wiki/User:Gregbard" title="User:Gregbard"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Gregbard-2007-09-08T23:51:00.000Z-Like_it!"></span>Gregbard</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:Irreligion#c-Gregbard-2007-09-08T23:51:00.000Z-Like_it!" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:51, 8 September 2007 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Gregbard-2007-09-08T23:51:00.000Z-Like_it!"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Gregbard-2007-09-08T23:51:00.000Z-Like_it!"></span> </p><p><br/> It's Ok I would change some things about it but it ok- Jane Doe </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Don't" data-mw-thread-id="h-Don't-2007-09-09T08:36:00.000Z"><span id="Don.27t"></span><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Don't-2007-09-09T08:36:00.000Z"></span>Don't<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Don't-2007-09-09T08:36:00.000Z"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Template_talk:Irreligion&action=edit&section=2" title="Edit section: Don't"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Roy_Brumback-2007-09-09T08:36:00.000Z-Don't"></span>Since many classify atheism and agnostism as religions isn't it POV to claim they are irreligious? Shouldn't you just have one atheism and one agnostism template. And could we please delete links to <i>groups</i> which are not belief systems, since beliefs are thoughts and groups are bunches of people, as well as jokes like FSM, which is not a belief system, since people don't actually believe in it. <a href="/wiki/User:Roy_Brumback" title="User:Roy Brumback">Roy Brumback</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:Irreligion#c-Roy_Brumback-2007-09-09T08:36:00.000Z-Don't" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">08:36, 9 September 2007 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Roy_Brumback-2007-09-09T08:36:00.000Z-Don't"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Roy_Brumback-2007-09-09T08:36:00.000Z-Don't"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Mdwh-2007-10-07T13:27:00.000Z-Roy_Brumback-2007-09-09T08:36:00.000Z"></span>Some people think that Creationism is a science or Iraq isn't located in the Middle East, but that doesn't mean they are right. NPOV doesn't mean we can't say anything because someone somewhere might disagree with accepted definitions. I agree though that it doesn't seem right to link to FSM etc. <a href="/wiki/User:Mdwh" title="User:Mdwh">Mdwh</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:Irreligion#c-Mdwh-2007-10-07T13:27:00.000Z-Roy_Brumback-2007-09-09T08:36:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">13:27, 7 October 2007 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Mdwh-2007-10-07T13:27:00.000Z-Roy_Brumback-2007-09-09T08:36:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Mdwh-2007-10-07T13:27:00.000Z-Roy_Brumback-2007-09-09T08:36:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-ConfuciusOrnis-2007-10-07T13:45:00.000Z-Mdwh-2007-10-07T13:27:00.000Z"></span>Why not? Parody religions are expressions of irreligion. In any case the template isn't called Irreligious belief systems anymore, it's simply called Irreligion. <a href="/wiki/User:ConfuciusOrnis" title="User:ConfuciusOrnis"><span style="color: #737CA1; font-family: arial black;"> – ornis</span></a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:ConfuciusOrnis" title="User talk:ConfuciusOrnis"><span style="color: #C11B17; font-size: small;">⚙</span></a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:Irreligion#c-ConfuciusOrnis-2007-10-07T13:45:00.000Z-Mdwh-2007-10-07T13:27:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">13:45, 7 October 2007 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-ConfuciusOrnis-2007-10-07T13:45:00.000Z-Mdwh-2007-10-07T13:27:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-ConfuciusOrnis-2007-10-07T13:45:00.000Z-Mdwh-2007-10-07T13:27:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-JimWae-2007-09-09T17:39:00.000Z-Don't"></span>Calling all these <i>belief systems</i> is a misleading misnomer. Many involve non-belief or disbelief in something, rather than belief in something. Also several are not "systems" but single positions on certain purported propositions. I have the same objection to including atheism in the belief systems template. How about "irreligious perspectives" or "irreligious viewpoints"? --<a href="/wiki/User:JimWae" title="User:JimWae">JimWae</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:Irreligion#c-JimWae-2007-09-09T17:39:00.000Z-Don't" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:39, 9 September 2007 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-JimWae-2007-09-09T17:39:00.000Z-Don't"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-JimWae-2007-09-09T17:39:00.000Z-Don't"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-ConfuciusOrnis-2007-10-08T16:00:00.000Z-JimWae-2007-09-09T17:39:00.000Z"></span>I've renamed it <b>Irreligion</b>. It's short, to the point and covers everything on the template while remaining focused. <a href="/wiki/User:ConfuciusOrnis" title="User:ConfuciusOrnis"><span style="color: #737CA1; font-family: arial black;"> – ornis</span></a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:ConfuciusOrnis" title="User talk:ConfuciusOrnis"><span style="color: #C11B17; font-size: small;">⚙</span></a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:Irreligion#c-ConfuciusOrnis-2007-10-08T16:00:00.000Z-JimWae-2007-09-09T17:39:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:00, 8 October 2007 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-ConfuciusOrnis-2007-10-08T16:00:00.000Z-JimWae-2007-09-09T17:39:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-ConfuciusOrnis-2007-10-08T16:00:00.000Z-JimWae-2007-09-09T17:39:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Avenue-2008-03-01T03:09:00.000Z-ConfuciusOrnis-2007-10-08T16:00:00.000Z"></span>It is also offensive to some. -- <a href="/wiki/User:Avenue" title="User:Avenue">Avenue</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Avenue" title="User talk:Avenue">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:Irreligion#c-Avenue-2008-03-01T03:09:00.000Z-ConfuciusOrnis-2007-10-08T16:00:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">03:09, 1 March 2008 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Avenue-2008-03-01T03:09:00.000Z-ConfuciusOrnis-2007-10-08T16:00:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Avenue-2008-03-01T03:09:00.000Z-ConfuciusOrnis-2007-10-08T16:00:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Arnoutf-2008-01-11T15:26:00.000Z-ConfuciusOrnis-2007-10-08T16:00:00.000Z"></span>It has been relabeled Secularism. That is plainly ridiculous. One is perfectly able to be religious and still be a strong supporter of division between state and church. You don't have to be a non-believer to be in favour of secular law (ie no legal status for church law or sharia law). <a href="/wiki/User:Arnoutf" title="User:Arnoutf">Arnoutf</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Arnoutf" title="User talk:Arnoutf">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:Irreligion#c-Arnoutf-2008-01-11T15:26:00.000Z-ConfuciusOrnis-2007-10-08T16:00:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:26, 11 January 2008 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Arnoutf-2008-01-11T15:26:00.000Z-ConfuciusOrnis-2007-10-08T16:00:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Arnoutf-2008-01-11T15:26:00.000Z-ConfuciusOrnis-2007-10-08T16:00:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl> <p><br/> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading3"><h3 id="Summary_of_defs_for_IRRELIGION" data-mw-thread-id="h-Summary_of_defs_for_IRRELIGION-Don't-2008-01-16T06:14:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Summary_of_defs_for_IRRELIGION-Don't-2008-01-16T06:14:00.000Z"></span>Summary of defs for IRRELIGION<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Summary_of_defs_for_IRRELIGION-Don't-2008-01-16T06:14:00.000Z"></span></h3><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Template_talk:Irreligion&action=edit&section=3" title="Edit section: Summary of defs for IRRELIGION"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-JimWae-2008-01-16T06:14:00.000Z-Summary_of_defs_for_IRRELIGION"></span>SUMMARY from <a rel="nofollow" class="external free" href="http://www.onelook.com/?w=irreligion&ls=a">http://www.onelook.com/?w=irreligion&ls=a</a> and <a rel="nofollow" class="external free" href="http://www.onelook.com/?w=irreligious&ls=a">http://www.onelook.com/?w=irreligious&ls=a</a> </p><p>NEGATIVE </p> <ul><li>lack or want of religion</li> <li>hostility to religion</li> <li>neglectful of religion</li> <li>lacking religious emotions, doctrines or practices</li> <li>impiety, impiousness</li> <li>unrighteousness by virtue of lacking respect for a god</li> <li>Contrary to religious beliefs, practices and morals</li></ul> <p>NEUTRAL </p> <ul><li>absence of religion</li> <li>Describing a conscious rejection of religion.</li> <li>Having no relation to religion; non-religious.</li></ul> <p>NOT CLEARLY NEUTRAL </p> <ul><li>quality of not being devout</li> <li>indifference to religion</li></ul> <p>I think there has been an attempt to persuasively use this term as a neutral term. I do not think it is clearly such. People (Brights, Deists, Agnostic theists) are objecting to being included in the { {Template:Irreligion} }. I can see why. Otoh, non-theistic Buddhists ARE religious & it is unclear where they go. All the positions in the Irreligion Template are THEOLOGICAL positions - but there is already a template { {Template:Belief systems} } which is TOO broad & has the working title, theological positions. Perhaps we need a merge. --<a href="/wiki/User:JimWae" title="User:JimWae">JimWae</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:JimWae" title="User talk:JimWae">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:Irreligion#c-JimWae-2008-01-16T06:14:00.000Z-Summary_of_defs_for_IRRELIGION" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">06:14, 16 January 2008 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-JimWae-2008-01-16T06:14:00.000Z-Summary_of_defs_for_IRRELIGION"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-JimWae-2008-01-16T06:14:00.000Z-Summary_of_defs_for_IRRELIGION"></span> </p> <div class="navbox-styles"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Avenue-2008-03-01T03:09:00.000Z-Summary_of_defs_for_IRRELIGION"></span><style 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data-mw-deduplicate="TemplateStyles:r1239400231">.mw-parser-output .navbar{display:inline;font-size:88%;font-weight:normal}.mw-parser-output .navbar-collapse{float:left;text-align:left}.mw-parser-output .navbar-boxtext{word-spacing:0}.mw-parser-output .navbar ul{display:inline-block;white-space:nowrap;line-height:inherit}.mw-parser-output .navbar-brackets::before{margin-right:-0.125em;content:"[ "}.mw-parser-output .navbar-brackets::after{margin-left:-0.125em;content:" ]"}.mw-parser-output .navbar li{word-spacing:-0.125em}.mw-parser-output .navbar a>span,.mw-parser-output .navbar a>abbr{text-decoration:inherit}.mw-parser-output .navbar-mini abbr{font-variant:small-caps;border-bottom:none;text-decoration:none;cursor:inherit}.mw-parser-output .navbar-ct-full{font-size:114%;margin:0 7em}.mw-parser-output .navbar-ct-mini{font-size:114%;margin:0 4em}html.skin-theme-clientpref-night .mw-parser-output .navbar li a abbr{color:var(--color-base)!important}@media(prefers-color-scheme:dark){html.skin-theme-clientpref-os .mw-parser-output .navbar li a abbr{color:var(--color-base)!important}}@media print{.mw-parser-output .navbar{display:none!important}}</style><div class="navbar plainlinks hlist navbar-mini"><ul><li class="nv-view"><a href="/wiki/Template:Irreligion" title="Template:Irreligion"><abbr title="View this template">v</abbr></a></li><li class="nv-talk"><a class="mw-selflink selflink"><abbr title="Discuss this template">t</abbr></a></li><li class="nv-edit"><a href="/wiki/Special:EditPage/Template:Irreligion" title="Special:EditPage/Template:Irreligion"><abbr title="Edit this template">e</abbr></a></li></ul></div><div id="Irreligion" style="font-size:114%;margin:0 4em"><a href="/wiki/Irreligion" title="Irreligion">Irreligion</a></div></th></tr><tr><th scope="row" class="navbox-group" style="width:1%"><a href="/wiki/Irreligion" title="Irreligion">Irreligion</a></th><td class="navbox-list-with-group navbox-list navbox-odd hlist" style="width:100%;padding:0"><div style="padding:0 0.25em"> <ul><li><a href="/wiki/Antireligion" title="Antireligion">Antireligion</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Anti-clericalism" title="Anti-clericalism">Anti-clericalism</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Criticism_of_religion" title="Criticism of religion">Criticism of religion</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Freethought" title="Freethought">Freethought</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Organized_secularism" title="Organized secularism">Organized secularism</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Parody_religion" title="Parody religion">Parody religion</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Secular_humanism" title="Secular humanism">Secular humanism</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Secular_liberalism" title="Secular liberalism">Secular liberalism</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Secular_state" title="Secular state">Secular state</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Secularism" title="Secularism">Secularism</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Secularity" title="Secularity">Secularity</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Secularization" title="Secularization">Secularization</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Separation_of_church_and_state" title="Separation of church and state">Separation of church and state</a></li></ul></div></td></tr><tr><th scope="row" class="navbox-group" style="width:1%"><a href="/wiki/Atheism" title="Atheism">Atheism</a></th><td class="navbox-list-with-group navbox-list navbox-even hlist" style="width:100%;padding:0"><div style="padding:0 0.25em"> <li><a href="/wiki/Demographics_of_atheism" title="Demographics of atheism">Demographics</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Atheism_and_religion" title="Atheism and religion">Religion</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/History_of_atheism" title="History of atheism">History</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/State_atheism" title="State atheism">State</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/New_Atheism" title="New Atheism">New</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Criticism_of_atheism" title="Criticism of atheism">Criticism</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Discrimination_against_atheists" title="Discrimination against atheists">Discrimination/Persecution</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Implicit_and_explicit_atheism" title="Implicit and explicit atheism">Implicit and explicit</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Negative_and_positive_atheism" title="Negative and positive atheism">Negative and positive</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Existence_of_God" title="Existence of God">Existence of God</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Antitheism" title="Antitheism">Antitheism</a></li> </div></td></tr><tr><th scope="row" class="navbox-group" style="width:1%"><a href="/wiki/Agnosticism" title="Agnosticism">Agnosticism</a></th><td class="navbox-list-with-group navbox-list navbox-odd hlist" style="width:100%;padding:0"><div style="padding:0 0.25em"> <ul><li><a href="/wiki/Strong_agnosticism" class="mw-redirect" title="Strong agnosticism">Strong</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Weak_agnosticism" class="mw-redirect" title="Weak agnosticism">Weak</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Agnostic_atheism" title="Agnostic atheism">Agnostic atheism</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Apatheism" title="Apatheism">Apatheism</a></li></ul> </div></td></tr><tr><th scope="row" class="navbox-group" style="width:1%">People</th><td class="navbox-list-with-group navbox-list navbox-even hlist" style="width:100%;padding:0"><div style="padding:0 0.25em"> <ul><li><a href="/wiki/Lists_of_atheists" title="Lists of atheists">Atheists</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/List_of_agnostics" title="List of agnostics">Agnostics</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/List_of_secular_humanists" title="List of secular humanists">Humanists</a></li></ul> </div></td></tr><tr><th scope="row" class="navbox-group" style="width:1%"><a href="/wiki/Category:Books_about_atheism" title="Category:Books about atheism">Books</a></th><td class="navbox-list-with-group navbox-list navbox-odd hlist" style="width:100%;padding:0"><div style="padding:0 0.25em"> <ul><li><i><a href="/wiki/The_Age_of_Reason" title="The Age of Reason">The Age of Reason</a></i></li> <li><i><a href="/wiki/Breaking_the_Spell:_Religion_as_a_Natural_Phenomenon" class="mw-redirect" title="Breaking the Spell: Religion as a Natural Phenomenon">Breaking the Spell</a></i></li> <li><i><a href="/wiki/The_Demon-Haunted_World" title="The Demon-Haunted World">The Demon-Haunted World</a></i></li> <li><i><a href="/wiki/The_End_of_Faith" title="The End of Faith">The End of Faith</a></i></li> <li><i><a href="/wiki/The_God_Delusion" title="The God Delusion">The God Delusion</a></i></li> <li><i><a href="/wiki/God_Is_Not_Great" title="God Is Not Great">God Is Not Great</a></i></li> <li><i><a href="/wiki/Letter_to_a_Christian_Nation" title="Letter to a Christian Nation">Letter to a Christian Nation</a></i></li> <li><i><a href="/wiki/The_System_of_Nature" title="The System of Nature">The System of Nature</a></i></li> <li><i><a href="/wiki/Why_I_Am_Not_a_Christian" title="Why I Am Not a Christian">Why I Am Not a Christian</a></i></li> <li><i><a href="/wiki/Why_I_Am_Not_a_Muslim" title="Why I Am Not a Muslim">Why I Am Not a Muslim</a></i></li> <li><i><a href="/wiki/Why_I_Am_an_Atheist" title="Why I Am an Atheist">Why I Am an Atheist</a></i></li></ul></div></td></tr><tr><th scope="row" class="navbox-group" style="width:1%"><a href="/wiki/List_of_secularist_organizations" class="mw-redirect" title="List of secularist organizations">Organizations</a></th><td class="navbox-list-with-group navbox-list navbox-even hlist" style="width:100%;padding:0"><div style="padding:0 0.25em"> <li><a href="/wiki/American_Atheists" title="American Atheists">American Atheists</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/American_Humanist_Association" title="American Humanist Association">American Humanist Association</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Atheist_Alliance_International" title="Atheist Alliance International">Atheist Alliance International</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Center_for_Inquiry" title="Center for Inquiry">Center for Inquiry</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Freedom_From_Religion_Foundation" title="Freedom From Religion Foundation">Freedom From Religion Foundation</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Humanists_International" title="Humanists International">Humanists International</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Humanists_UK" title="Humanists UK">Humanists UK</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Rational_Response_Squad" title="Rational Response Squad">Rational Response Squad</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Recovering_from_Religion" title="Recovering from Religion">Recovering from Religion</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Brazilian_Association_of_Atheists_and_Agnostics" title="Brazilian Association of Atheists and Agnostics">Brazilian Association of Atheists and Agnostics</a></li></div></td></tr><tr><th scope="row" class="navbox-group" style="width:1%">Related topics</th><td class="navbox-list-with-group navbox-list navbox-odd hlist" style="width:100%;padding:0"><div style="padding:0 0.25em"> <li><a href="/wiki/List_of_countries_by_irreligion" title="List of countries by irreligion">Countries by irreligion</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Disestablishmentarianism" title="Disestablishmentarianism">Disestablishmentarianism</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Secular_ethics" title="Secular ethics">Secular ethics</a></li></div></td></tr></tbody></table></div> <div class="navbox-styles"><link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1129693374"><link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1236075235"></div><div role="navigation" class="navbox" aria-labelledby="Belief_systems" style="padding:3px"><table class="nowraplinks mw-collapsible autocollapse navbox-inner" style="border-spacing:0;background:transparent;color:inherit"><tbody><tr><th scope="col" class="navbox-title" colspan="2"><link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1129693374"><link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1239400231"><div class="navbar plainlinks hlist navbar-mini"><ul><li class="nv-view"><a href="/wiki/Template:Belief_systems" title="Template:Belief systems"><abbr title="View this template">v</abbr></a></li><li class="nv-talk"><a href="/wiki/Template_talk:Belief_systems" title="Template talk:Belief systems"><abbr title="Discuss this template">t</abbr></a></li><li class="nv-edit"><a href="/wiki/Special:EditPage/Template:Belief_systems" title="Special:EditPage/Template:Belief systems"><abbr title="Edit this template">e</abbr></a></li></ul></div><div id="Belief_systems" style="font-size:114%;margin:0 4em"><a href="/wiki/Belief" title="Belief">Belief systems</a></div></th></tr><tr><td colspan="2" class="navbox-list navbox-odd hlist" style="width:100%;padding:0"><div style="padding:0 0.25em"> <ul><li><a href="/wiki/Abrahamic_religions" title="Abrahamic religions">Abrahamism</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Acosmism" title="Acosmism">Acosmism</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Agnosticism" title="Agnosticism">Agnosticism</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Animism" title="Animism">Animism</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Antireligion" title="Antireligion">Antireligion</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Atheism" title="Atheism">Atheism</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Deism" title="Deism">Deism</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Dharma" title="Dharma">Dharmism</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Dualistic_cosmology" class="mw-redirect" title="Dualistic cosmology">Dualism</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Western_esotericism" title="Western esotericism">Esotericism</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Feminist_theology" title="Feminist theology">Feminist theology</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Gnosticism" title="Gnosticism">Gnosticism</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Henotheism" title="Henotheism">Henotheism</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Immanence" title="Immanence">Immanence</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Monism" title="Monism">Monism</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Monolatry" title="Monolatry">Monolatry</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Monotheism" title="Monotheism">Monotheism</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Mysticism" title="Mysticism">Mysticism</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Neoplatonism" title="Neoplatonism">Neoplatonism</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/New_Age" title="New Age">New Age</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/New_Thought" title="New Thought">New Thought</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Nonduality_(spirituality)" class="mw-redirect" title="Nonduality (spirituality)">Nondualism</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Pandeism" title="Pandeism">Pandeism</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Pantheism" title="Pantheism">Pantheism</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Panentheism" title="Panentheism">Panentheism</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Polytheism" title="Polytheism">Polytheism</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Process_theology" title="Process theology">Process theology</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Religious_naturalism" title="Religious naturalism">Religious naturalism</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Shamanism" title="Shamanism">Shamanism</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/%C5%9Arama%E1%B9%87a" title="Śramaṇa">Shramanism</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/East_Asian_religions" title="East Asian religions">Taoic</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Theism" title="Theism">Theism</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Transcendence_(religion)" title="Transcendence (religion)">Transcendence</a></li> <li><i><a href="/wiki/List_of_philosophies" title="List of philosophies">more</a></i></li></ul> </div></td></tr></tbody></table></div> <p><br/> </p> <dl><dd>Yes, "irreligion" certainly has negative connotations. It is therefore not a suitable name for this template; witness the attempted deletions, apparently by an offended <a href="/wiki/Brights_movement" title="Brights movement">Bright</a>. I think the topics listed here are a sensible grouping, so I don't support a merge, but something needs to be done. Would "Non-religious theolological positions" be acceptable? -- <a href="/wiki/User:Avenue" title="User:Avenue">Avenue</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Avenue" title="User talk:Avenue">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:Irreligion#c-Avenue-2008-03-01T03:09:00.000Z-Summary_of_defs_for_IRRELIGION" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">03:09, 1 March 2008 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Avenue-2008-03-01T03:09:00.000Z-Summary_of_defs_for_IRRELIGION"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Avenue-2008-03-01T03:09:00.000Z-Summary_of_defs_for_IRRELIGION"></span></dd></dl> <p><b><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-JimWae-2008-03-01T05:57:00.000Z-Summary_of_defs_for_IRRELIGION"></span>Non-theistic positions</b> could even include nontheistic religions --<a href="/wiki/User:JimWae" title="User:JimWae">JimWae</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:JimWae" title="User talk:JimWae">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:Irreligion#c-JimWae-2008-03-01T05:57:00.000Z-Summary_of_defs_for_IRRELIGION" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">05:57, 1 March 2008 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-JimWae-2008-03-01T05:57:00.000Z-Summary_of_defs_for_IRRELIGION"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-JimWae-2008-03-01T05:57:00.000Z-Summary_of_defs_for_IRRELIGION"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Masterpiece2000-2008-03-04T06:00:00.000Z-JimWae-2008-03-01T05:57:00.000Z"></span>Yes, we must also include UFO religions like <a href="/wiki/Ra%C3%ABlism" title="Raëlism">Raëlism</a> in the template because it is a non-theist religion. User:PGbright1 make comment like 'The Brights' Net is not an "irreligious" organization', which is simply incorrect. If you call yourself a cultural Christian and don't believe in the religious aspect of Christianity, you are still an irreligious guy. People call themselves 'irreligious Christian', 'irreligious Jews', etc. Even <a href="/wiki/Richard_Dawkins" title="Richard Dawkins">Richard Dawkins</a> describes himself as a "cultural Christian" <a rel="nofollow" class="external autonumber" href="http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7136682.stm">[1]</a>. I think the name should be changed to irreligion. <a href="/wiki/User:Masterpiece2000" title="User:Masterpiece2000">Masterpiece2000</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Masterpiece2000" title="User talk:Masterpiece2000">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:Irreligion#c-Masterpiece2000-2008-03-04T06:00:00.000Z-JimWae-2008-03-01T05:57:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">06:00, 4 March 2008 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Masterpiece2000-2008-03-04T06:00:00.000Z-JimWae-2008-03-01T05:57:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Masterpiece2000-2008-03-04T06:00:00.000Z-JimWae-2008-03-01T05:57:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Masterpiece2000-2008-03-04T06:10:00.000Z-Summary_of_defs_for_IRRELIGION"></span>I have changed the name. If you disagree, feel free to discuss. <a href="/wiki/User:Masterpiece2000" title="User:Masterpiece2000">Masterpiece2000</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Masterpiece2000" title="User talk:Masterpiece2000">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:Irreligion#c-Masterpiece2000-2008-03-04T06:10:00.000Z-Summary_of_defs_for_IRRELIGION" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">06:10, 4 March 2008 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Masterpiece2000-2008-03-04T06:10:00.000Z-Summary_of_defs_for_IRRELIGION"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Masterpiece2000-2008-03-04T06:10:00.000Z-Summary_of_defs_for_IRRELIGION"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Avenue-2008-03-04T06:37:00.000Z-Masterpiece2000-2008-03-04T06:10:00.000Z"></span>You have not addressed the offensiveness of the term. You say it's incorrect to say the Brights are not irreligious, but I think their organisation would object to being painted as hostile to religion. The ambiguity of the term "irreligion" is the problem here. But I agree "non-theistic positions" isn't a great alternative, because it's too inclusive. -- <a href="/wiki/User:Avenue" title="User:Avenue">Avenue</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Avenue" title="User talk:Avenue">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:Irreligion#c-Avenue-2008-03-04T06:37:00.000Z-Masterpiece2000-2008-03-04T06:10:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">06:37, 4 March 2008 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Avenue-2008-03-04T06:37:00.000Z-Masterpiece2000-2008-03-04T06:10:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Avenue-2008-03-04T06:37:00.000Z-Masterpiece2000-2008-03-04T06:10:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl> <ul><li><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-JimWae-2008-03-04T07:10:00.000Z-Masterpiece2000-2008-03-04T06:10:00.000Z"></span>Masterpiece, I see no response addressing the points at top of this section --<a href="/wiki/User:JimWae" title="User:JimWae">JimWae</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:JimWae" title="User talk:JimWae">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:Irreligion#c-JimWae-2008-03-04T07:10:00.000Z-Masterpiece2000-2008-03-04T06:10:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">07:10, 4 March 2008 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-JimWae-2008-03-04T07:10:00.000Z-Masterpiece2000-2008-03-04T06:10:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-JimWae-2008-03-04T07:10:00.000Z-Masterpiece2000-2008-03-04T06:10:00.000Z"></span></li> <li><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-JimWae-2008-03-04T19:37:00.000Z-Masterpiece2000-2008-03-04T06:10:00.000Z"></span>A way to deal with specific beliefs like Raelism would be to include a link to general article like <a href="/wiki/Nontheistic_religions" class="mw-redirect" title="Nontheistic religions">Nontheistic religions</a>--<a href="/wiki/User:JimWae" title="User:JimWae">JimWae</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:JimWae" title="User talk:JimWae">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:Irreligion#c-JimWae-2008-03-04T19:37:00.000Z-Masterpiece2000-2008-03-04T06:10:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:37, 4 March 2008 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-JimWae-2008-03-04T19:37:00.000Z-Masterpiece2000-2008-03-04T06:10:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-JimWae-2008-03-04T19:37:00.000Z-Masterpiece2000-2008-03-04T06:10:00.000Z"></span></li> <li><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-JimWae-2008-03-04T21:27:00.000Z-Masterpiece2000-2008-03-04T06:10:00.000Z"></span>see <a href="/wiki/Talk:Brights_movement#Irreligion" title="Talk:Brights movement">Talk:Brights_movement#Irreligion</a>--<a href="/wiki/User:JimWae" title="User:JimWae">JimWae</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:JimWae" title="User talk:JimWae">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:Irreligion#c-JimWae-2008-03-04T21:27:00.000Z-Masterpiece2000-2008-03-04T06:10:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:27, 4 March 2008 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-JimWae-2008-03-04T21:27:00.000Z-Masterpiece2000-2008-03-04T06:10:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-JimWae-2008-03-04T21:27:00.000Z-Masterpiece2000-2008-03-04T06:10:00.000Z"></span></li> <li><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-JimWae-2008-03-04T21:45:00.000Z-Masterpiece2000-2008-03-04T06:10:00.000Z"></span>and yes, <a href="/wiki/UFO_religion" title="UFO religion">UFO religions</a> give a relevant perspective to the issues of religion, gods & supernaturalism --<a href="/wiki/User:JimWae" title="User:JimWae">JimWae</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:JimWae" title="User talk:JimWae">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:Irreligion#c-JimWae-2008-03-04T21:45:00.000Z-Masterpiece2000-2008-03-04T06:10:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:45, 4 March 2008 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-JimWae-2008-03-04T21:45:00.000Z-Masterpiece2000-2008-03-04T06:10:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-JimWae-2008-03-04T21:45:00.000Z-Masterpiece2000-2008-03-04T06:10:00.000Z"></span></li></ul> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Masterpiece2000-2008-03-05T04:07:00.000Z-Masterpiece2000-2008-03-04T06:10:00.000Z"></span>Well, I think we have to find a new term. If we change the name to 'Nontheistic postions' or 'Nontheism' we must include UFO religions like <a href="/wiki/Raelism" class="mw-redirect" title="Raelism">Raelism</a>. Raelism is a non-theistic religion. However, if we include it, it will offend atheists, agnostics, and rationalists. I think we should removed 'Bright' from the template. Brights may not be hostile to religion, but they are non-religious. We have a problem! <a href="/wiki/User:Masterpiece2000" title="User:Masterpiece2000">Masterpiece2000</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Masterpiece2000" title="User talk:Masterpiece2000">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:Irreligion#c-Masterpiece2000-2008-03-05T04:07:00.000Z-Masterpiece2000-2008-03-04T06:10:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">04:07, 5 March 2008 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Masterpiece2000-2008-03-05T04:07:00.000Z-Masterpiece2000-2008-03-04T06:10:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Masterpiece2000-2008-03-05T04:07:00.000Z-Masterpiece2000-2008-03-04T06:10:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl> <ul><li><ul><li><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Sardanaphalus-2008-03-05T07:24:00.000Z-Masterpiece2000-2008-03-05T04:07:00.000Z"></span>Passing comments: <ol><li>Has "Nonreligion" been considered? (Sorry if I've missed it above or the point.)</li> <li>If "irreligion" is potentially derogatory/offensive/etc to a "significant" number of people, perhaps that should be mentioned in <a href="/wiki/Irreligion" title="Irreligion">Irreligion</a>'s opening section. Otherwise, if not, it could remain this template's name/title.</li></ol> <dl><dd><a href="/wiki/User:Sardanaphalus" title="User:Sardanaphalus">Sardanaphalus</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Sardanaphalus" title="User talk:Sardanaphalus">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:Irreligion#c-Sardanaphalus-2008-03-05T07:24:00.000Z-Masterpiece2000-2008-03-05T04:07:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">07:24, 5 March 2008 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Sardanaphalus-2008-03-05T07:24:00.000Z-Masterpiece2000-2008-03-05T04:07:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Sardanaphalus-2008-03-05T07:24:00.000Z-Masterpiece2000-2008-03-05T04:07:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></li></ul></li></ul> <dl><dd><dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Masterpiece2000-2008-03-05T13:28:00.000Z-Masterpiece2000-2008-03-05T04:07:00.000Z"></span>Well, Nonreligion is a redirect to the article <a href="/wiki/Irreligion" title="Irreligion">Irreligion</a>. Nonreligion sounds more polite. <a href="/wiki/User:Masterpiece2000" title="User:Masterpiece2000">Masterpiece2000</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Masterpiece2000" title="User talk:Masterpiece2000">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:Irreligion#c-Masterpiece2000-2008-03-05T13:28:00.000Z-Masterpiece2000-2008-03-05T04:07:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">13:28, 5 March 2008 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Masterpiece2000-2008-03-05T13:28:00.000Z-Masterpiece2000-2008-03-05T04:07:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Masterpiece2000-2008-03-05T13:28:00.000Z-Masterpiece2000-2008-03-05T04:07:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl> <p><br/> </p> <ul><li><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-JimWae-2008-03-05T19:31:00.000Z-Masterpiece2000-2008-03-04T06:10:00.000Z"></span>Only one reference work has an entry for <i>nonreligion</i>. Guess which? <a rel="nofollow" class="external free" href="http://www.onelook.com/?w=nonreligion&ls=a">http://www.onelook.com/?w=nonreligion&ls=a</a>. It is doubtful <i>nonreligion</i> is even a word. <i>Nonreligious</i> qualifies better as a word <a rel="nofollow" class="external free" href="http://www.onelook.com/?w=nonreligious&ls=a">http://www.onelook.com/?w=nonreligious&ls=a</a> . <i>Non-religious perspectives</i> would also include <i>capitalism</i> and <i>communism</i>. The situation with Raelism & <i>Nontheistic positions</i> is quite different from the problem of Brights & Irreligion. Brights object to being labelled as irreligious. Raelians do not object to being included among nontheistic perspectives. The issue with nontheistic perspectives seems to be that some nonreligious peoples do not want to be in any grouping that might also include <a href="/wiki/UFO_religion" title="UFO religion">UFO religions</a>. (I think a consideration of UFO religions sheds light on both theism & religion, however) Why is there a presumption that members of the same category share anything more than a label that includes both. Cannot <i>German History</i> include both <i>Nazism</i> and <i>Reformation</i> without implying that one somehow is responsible for the other? Cannot <i>History of Christianity</i> include the Crusades? We need *something* other than <i>irreligion</i> - asap. Even a non-word is better than the staus quo --<a href="/wiki/User:JimWae" title="User:JimWae">JimWae</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:JimWae" title="User talk:JimWae">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:Irreligion#c-JimWae-2008-03-05T19:31:00.000Z-Masterpiece2000-2008-03-04T06:10:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:31, 5 March 2008 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-JimWae-2008-03-05T19:31:00.000Z-Masterpiece2000-2008-03-04T06:10:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-JimWae-2008-03-05T19:31:00.000Z-Masterpiece2000-2008-03-04T06:10:00.000Z"></span></li> <li><i><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-JimWae-2008-03-05T19:48:00.000Z-Masterpiece2000-2008-03-04T06:10:00.000Z"></span>Non-religious theological positions</i> seems a bit long - but just about anything is better than <i>irreligion</i>. I suspect Brights movement people might still have objections, tho. And Secular Humanism is not necessarily a theological position. For that matter, some agnostics ARE religious - even theists. At some point, most categories start to leak --<a href="/wiki/User:JimWae" title="User:JimWae">JimWae</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:JimWae" title="User talk:JimWae">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:Irreligion#c-JimWae-2008-03-05T19:48:00.000Z-Masterpiece2000-2008-03-04T06:10:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:48, 5 March 2008 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-JimWae-2008-03-05T19:48:00.000Z-Masterpiece2000-2008-03-04T06:10:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-JimWae-2008-03-05T19:48:00.000Z-Masterpiece2000-2008-03-04T06:10:00.000Z"></span></li> <li><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-JimWae-2008-03-05T20:07:00.000Z-Masterpiece2000-2008-03-04T06:10:00.000Z"></span>I am thinking the only real solution is to have a <a href="/wiki/Philosophy_of_religion" title="Philosophy of religion">Philosophy of religion</a> NAV box - but I do not wish to delay SOME change here (asap) --<a href="/wiki/User:JimWae" title="User:JimWae">JimWae</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:JimWae" title="User talk:JimWae">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:Irreligion#c-JimWae-2008-03-05T20:07:00.000Z-Masterpiece2000-2008-03-04T06:10:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:07, 5 March 2008 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-JimWae-2008-03-05T20:07:00.000Z-Masterpiece2000-2008-03-04T06:10:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-JimWae-2008-03-05T20:07:00.000Z-Masterpiece2000-2008-03-04T06:10:00.000Z"></span></li></ul> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-SP-KP-2008-03-05T23:51:00.000Z-Summary_of_defs_for_IRRELIGION"></span>Suggestions for new names for the template have been invited at <a href="/wiki/Talk:Brights_movement" title="Talk:Brights movement">Talk:Brights movement</a>, so I'd like to put forward "non-supernatural beliefs" or "rejection of supernatural beliefs" as suggestions for discussion. <a href="/wiki/User:SP-KP" title="User:SP-KP">SP-KP</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:SP-KP" title="User talk:SP-KP">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:Irreligion#c-SP-KP-2008-03-05T23:51:00.000Z-Summary_of_defs_for_IRRELIGION" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:51, 5 March 2008 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-SP-KP-2008-03-05T23:51:00.000Z-Summary_of_defs_for_IRRELIGION"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-SP-KP-2008-03-05T23:51:00.000Z-Summary_of_defs_for_IRRELIGION"></span> </p> <ul><li><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Sardanaphalus-2008-03-06T03:03:00.000Z-SP-KP-2008-03-05T23:51:00.000Z"></span>Looking at the definition I found online (and added as ref to <a href="/wiki/Irreligion" title="Irreligion">Irreligion</a>) and the Spanish, French and Portuguese interwiki links at <a href="/wiki/Irreligion" title="Irreligion">Irreligion</a> (perhaps the others too), I'm wondering just how offensive/undesirable/etc the word really is. Trying to contrive some many-syllabic/multi-worded alternative seems weaselly and perhaps misleading. I'd suggest the choice is made from "Irreligion" or "Nonreligion" (see <a href="/wiki/Irreligion" title="Irreligion">Irreligion</a>'s opening sentence) and be done with it. And add a note directing any future queries to this part of the talkpage. <a href="/wiki/User:Sardanaphalus" title="User:Sardanaphalus">Sardanaphalus</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Sardanaphalus" title="User talk:Sardanaphalus">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:Irreligion#c-Sardanaphalus-2008-03-06T03:03:00.000Z-SP-KP-2008-03-05T23:51:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">03:03, 6 March 2008 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Sardanaphalus-2008-03-06T03:03:00.000Z-SP-KP-2008-03-05T23:51:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Sardanaphalus-2008-03-06T03:03:00.000Z-SP-KP-2008-03-05T23:51:00.000Z"></span></li></ul> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-JimWae-2008-03-06T03:11:00.000Z-Summary_of_defs_for_IRRELIGION"></span>Irreligion has more negative connotations than neutral ones (summarized above from <a rel="nofollow" class="external free" href="http://www.onelook.com/?w=irreligion&ls=a">http://www.onelook.com/?w=irreligion&ls=a</a> and <a rel="nofollow" class="external free" href="http://www.onelook.com/?w=irreligious&ls=a">http://www.onelook.com/?w=irreligious&ls=a</a> ), and has been found unacceptable by several editors here & by the Brights movement. If we must KISS, I suggest we reconsider nontheism and secularism as titles --<a href="/wiki/User:JimWae" title="User:JimWae">JimWae</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:JimWae" title="User talk:JimWae">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:Irreligion#c-JimWae-2008-03-06T03:11:00.000Z-Summary_of_defs_for_IRRELIGION" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">03:11, 6 March 2008 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-JimWae-2008-03-06T03:11:00.000Z-Summary_of_defs_for_IRRELIGION"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-JimWae-2008-03-06T03:11:00.000Z-Summary_of_defs_for_IRRELIGION"></span> </p><p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Stevebritgimp-2008-03-06T14:12:00.000Z-Summary_of_defs_for_IRRELIGION"></span>Flying visit - will return - just as a quick comment the Irreligion table doesn't match the Irreligion article, as the table only talks about Atheism, Agnosticism and Nontheism, while the article says you can be theist and irreligious. Also I would agree negative aspects of irreligion are not necessary relevant to the non-religious. Irreligious is a religious term for the non-religious. Be back soon, maybe on the weekend. Cheers <a href="/wiki/User:Stevebritgimp" title="User:Stevebritgimp">Stevebritgimp</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Stevebritgimp" title="User talk:Stevebritgimp">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:Irreligion#c-Stevebritgimp-2008-03-06T14:12:00.000Z-Summary_of_defs_for_IRRELIGION" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">14:12, 6 March 2008 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Stevebritgimp-2008-03-06T14:12:00.000Z-Summary_of_defs_for_IRRELIGION"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Stevebritgimp-2008-03-06T14:12:00.000Z-Summary_of_defs_for_IRRELIGION"></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="See_discussion_on_creating_a_sidebar_template_comparable_to_this_footer_template" data-mw-thread-id="h-See_discussion_on_creating_a_sidebar_template_comparable_to_this_footer_template-2010-06-09T14:29:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-See_discussion_on_creating_a_sidebar_template_comparable_to_this_footer_template-2010-06-09T14:29:00.000Z"></span>See discussion on creating a sidebar template comparable to this footer template<span data-mw-comment-end="h-See_discussion_on_creating_a_sidebar_template_comparable_to_this_footer_template-2010-06-09T14:29:00.000Z"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Template_talk:Irreligion&action=edit&section=4" title="Edit section: See discussion on creating a sidebar template comparable to this footer template"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Noleander-2010-06-09T14:29:00.000Z-See_discussion_on_creating_a_sidebar_template_comparable_to_this_footer_template"></span>Discussion at: <a href="/wiki/Template_talk:Atheism2#See_discussion_re_other_related_articles" class="mw-redirect" title="Template talk:Atheism2">Template_talk:Atheism2#See_discussion_re_other_related_articles</a>. --<a href="/wiki/User:Noleander" title="User:Noleander">Noleander</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Noleander" title="User talk:Noleander">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:Irreligion#c-Noleander-2010-06-09T14:29:00.000Z-See_discussion_on_creating_a_sidebar_template_comparable_to_this_footer_template" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">14:29, 9 June 2010 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Noleander-2010-06-09T14:29:00.000Z-See_discussion_on_creating_a_sidebar_template_comparable_to_this_footer_template"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Noleander-2010-06-09T14:29:00.000Z-See_discussion_on_creating_a_sidebar_template_comparable_to_this_footer_template"></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Militant_atheism" data-mw-thread-id="h-Militant_atheism-2011-09-27T05:43:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Militant_atheism-2011-09-27T05:43:00.000Z"></span>Militant atheism<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Militant_atheism-2011-09-27T05:43:00.000Z"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Template_talk:Irreligion&action=edit&section=5" title="Edit section: Militant atheism"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Aprock-2011-09-27T05:43:00.000Z-Militant_atheism"></span>I've removed the <a href="/wiki/Militant_atheism" class="mw-redirect" title="Militant atheism">militant atheism</a> link from the template. The article is generally redundant with <a href="/wiki/State_atheism" title="State atheism">state atheism</a> and <a href="/wiki/New_atheism" class="mw-redirect" title="New atheism">new atheism</a>, and is being used as a coatrack. General usage today is derogatory, and including it here appears to be an attempt to pursue a negative pov toward atheism. <a href="/wiki/User:Aprock" title="User:Aprock">aprock</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Aprock" title="User talk:Aprock">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:Irreligion#c-Aprock-2011-09-27T05:43:00.000Z-Militant_atheism" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">05:43, 27 September 2011 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Aprock-2011-09-27T05:43:00.000Z-Militant_atheism"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Aprock-2011-09-27T05:43:00.000Z-Militant_atheism"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Anupam-2011-09-27T05:56:00.000Z-Aprock-2011-09-27T05:43:00.000Z"></span>This is your opinion and the term is notable. We should wait until the RfC closes, which may take some time. Furthermore, even if the article is split, the article will still delve into discussion of the term. I hope this helps. With regards, <a href="/wiki/User:Anupam" title="User:Anupam">Anupam</a><sup><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Anupam" title="User talk:Anupam">Talk</a></sup> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:Irreligion#c-Anupam-2011-09-27T05:56:00.000Z-Aprock-2011-09-27T05:43:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">05:56, 27 September 2011 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Anupam-2011-09-27T05:56:00.000Z-Aprock-2011-09-27T05:43:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Anupam-2011-09-27T05:56:00.000Z-Aprock-2011-09-27T05:43:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Aprock-2011-09-27T05:59:00.000Z-Anupam-2011-09-27T05:56:00.000Z"></span>If you'd like to address the concerns I noted, you are free to do so. If you have no interest in addressing them, I will be removing the links to militant atheism in due course. <a href="/wiki/User:Aprock" title="User:Aprock">aprock</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Aprock" title="User talk:Aprock">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:Irreligion#c-Aprock-2011-09-27T05:59:00.000Z-Anupam-2011-09-27T05:56:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">05:59, 27 September 2011 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Aprock-2011-09-27T05:59:00.000Z-Anupam-2011-09-27T05:56:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Aprock-2011-09-27T05:59:00.000Z-Anupam-2011-09-27T05:56:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Anupam-2011-09-27T06:03:00.000Z-Aprock-2011-09-27T05:59:00.000Z"></span>Your concerns are being discussed at the talk page for the main article. Also, it has been demonstrated that the term is used in scholarly discourse as demonstrated by the <a href="/wiki/Militant_atheism#Concepts" class="mw-redirect" title="Militant atheism">references in the concepts section of the article</a>. The term does not have use as a pejorative term exclusively. As such, we should wait before relinking any terms in the article until the RfC is closed. I would appreciate if you could honour this good faith request. With regards, <a href="/wiki/User:Anupam" title="User:Anupam">Anupam</a><sup><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Anupam" title="User talk:Anupam">Talk</a></sup> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:Irreligion#c-Anupam-2011-09-27T06:03:00.000Z-Aprock-2011-09-27T05:59:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">06:03, 27 September 2011 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Anupam-2011-09-27T06:03:00.000Z-Aprock-2011-09-27T05:59:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Anupam-2011-09-27T06:03:00.000Z-Aprock-2011-09-27T05:59:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Aprock-2011-09-27T06:14:00.000Z-Anupam-2011-09-27T06:03:00.000Z"></span>My concerns here relate to the addition of militant atheism to the template, not to the RfC. If you are not interested in discussing the concerns relating to the template, I cannot compel you to do so. <a href="/wiki/User:Aprock" title="User:Aprock">aprock</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Aprock" title="User talk:Aprock">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:Irreligion#c-Aprock-2011-09-27T06:14:00.000Z-Anupam-2011-09-27T06:03:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">06:14, 27 September 2011 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Aprock-2011-09-27T06:14:00.000Z-Anupam-2011-09-27T06:03:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Aprock-2011-09-27T06:14:00.000Z-Anupam-2011-09-27T06:03:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Anupam-2011-09-27T06:18:00.000Z-Aprock-2011-09-27T06:14:00.000Z"></span>I'm not sure I understand what you're saying. You stated that the general usage of the term is derogatory and that's why you removed it from the template. I informed you that this is not the case and provided several references for you to study. You cannot respond with a legimate reason for removing a relevant term from the template but instead, appeal to personal dislike of the term. As such, the wikilink will remain on the template. In the event that the RfC closes to delete the article, it might be helpful to remove the link from the template then. Thanks for your cooperation in this matter, <a href="/wiki/User:Anupam" title="User:Anupam">Anupam</a><sup><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Anupam" title="User talk:Anupam">Talk</a></sup> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:Irreligion#c-Anupam-2011-09-27T06:18:00.000Z-Aprock-2011-09-27T06:14:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">06:18, 27 September 2011 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Anupam-2011-09-27T06:18:00.000Z-Aprock-2011-09-27T06:14:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Anupam-2011-09-27T06:18:00.000Z-Aprock-2011-09-27T06:14:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Aprock-2011-09-27T06:27:00.000Z-Anupam-2011-09-27T06:18:00.000Z"></span>I did not say "general usage", I said "general usage today". I appreciate that some sources do use the term when discussing state sponsored atheism. The significant overlap, and the low quality of <a href="/wiki/Militant_atheism" class="mw-redirect" title="Militant atheism">militant atheism</a> is why the link is not only unnecessary, but also problematic. Given the discussions at the talk page of that article, your addition of that link to the template is at best questionable. <a href="/wiki/User:Aprock" title="User:Aprock">aprock</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Aprock" title="User talk:Aprock">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:Irreligion#c-Aprock-2011-09-27T06:27:00.000Z-Anupam-2011-09-27T06:18:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">06:27, 27 September 2011 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Aprock-2011-09-27T06:27:00.000Z-Anupam-2011-09-27T06:18:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Aprock-2011-09-27T06:27:00.000Z-Anupam-2011-09-27T06:18:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Tryptofish-2011-09-27T18:36:00.000Z-Militant_atheism"></span>I suggest leaving the template in whatever is The Wrong Version for now. Perhaps the Militant atheism article will eventually go out of existence, in which case the argument become moot. --<a href="/wiki/User:Tryptofish" title="User:Tryptofish">Tryptofish</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Tryptofish" title="User talk:Tryptofish">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:Irreligion#c-Tryptofish-2011-09-27T18:36:00.000Z-Militant_atheism" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:36, 27 September 2011 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Tryptofish-2011-09-27T18:36:00.000Z-Militant_atheism"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Tryptofish-2011-09-27T18:36:00.000Z-Militant_atheism"></span> </p>    </div><noscript><img src="https://login.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:CentralAutoLogin/start?type=1x1" alt="" width="1" height="1" style="border: none; position: absolute;"></noscript> <div class="printfooter" data-nosnippet="">Retrieved from "<a dir="ltr" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Template_talk:Irreligion&oldid=1232187653">https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Template_talk:Irreligion&oldid=1232187653</a>"</div></div> <div id="catlinks" class="catlinks" data-mw="interface"><div id="mw-normal-catlinks" class="mw-normal-catlinks"><a href="/wiki/Help:Category" title="Help:Category">Categories</a>: <ul><li><a href="/wiki/Category:Template-Class_Philosophy_articles" title="Category:Template-Class Philosophy articles">Template-Class Philosophy articles</a></li><li><a href="/wiki/Category:NA-importance_Philosophy_articles" title="Category:NA-importance Philosophy articles">NA-importance Philosophy articles</a></li><li><a href="/wiki/Category:Template-Class_philosophy_of_religion_articles" title="Category:Template-Class philosophy of religion articles">Template-Class philosophy of religion articles</a></li><li><a href="/wiki/Category:NA-importance_philosophy_of_religion_articles" title="Category:NA-importance philosophy of religion articles">NA-importance philosophy of religion articles</a></li><li><a href="/wiki/Category:Philosophy_of_religion_task_force_articles" title="Category:Philosophy of religion task force articles">Philosophy of religion task force articles</a></li></ul></div></div> </div> </main> </div> <div class="mw-footer-container"> <footer id="footer" class="mw-footer" > <ul id="footer-info"> <li id="footer-info-lastmod"> This page was last edited on 2 July 2024, at 12:16<span class="anonymous-show"> (UTC)</span>.</li> <li id="footer-info-copyright">Text is available under the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Text_of_the_Creative_Commons_Attribution-ShareAlike_4.0_International_License" title="Wikipedia:Text of the Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike 4.0 International License">Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike 4.0 License</a>; additional terms may apply. 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