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<!DOCTYPE html> <html lang="en" class=" story nytapp-vi-article " xmlns:og="http://opengraphprotocol.org/schema/"> <head> <meta charset="utf-8" /> <title data-rh="true">Introducing: The Improvement Association - The New York Times</title> <meta data-rh="true" name="robots" content="noarchive, max-image-preview:large"/><meta data-rh="true" name="description" content="A true story about election fraud."/><meta data-rh="true" property="twitter:url" content="https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/22/podcasts/election-fraud-improvement-association.html"/><meta data-rh="true" property="twitter:title" content="Introducing: The Improvement Association (Published 2021)"/><meta data-rh="true" property="twitter:description" content="A true story about election fraud."/><meta data-rh="true" property="twitter:image" 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14.8903C16.5163 14.1769 17.3004 13.5959 18.1773 13.1811L18.1438 13.0827C13.6299 14.053 9.25 17.4029 9.25 22.4311C9.25 28.2263 14.2461 32.2645 20.0659 32.2645C26.2206 32.2645 29.7165 28.2459 29.75 22.3852L29.6428 22.3655Z" fill="white"></path></g></svg><p class="css-1i65h1o">For more audio journalism and storytelling,<!-- --> <span class="css-mz3kxp">download New York Times Audio</span>, a new iOS app available for news subscribers.</p></div></a></div></div></div></div><div aria-live="polite"><div class="css-1dv1kvn">You have a preview view of this article while we are checking your access. When we have confirmed access, the full article content will load.</div></div><div style="position:absolute;width:0;height:0;visibility:hidden;display:none"></div><header class="css-1vwfk9f" data-breakpoint=""><div style="width:100%" data-testid="default-layout"><div style="background-image:url(https://static01.nyt.com/images/2021/02/17/podcasts/tia-serial-albumartwork/tia-serial-albumartwork-videoFifteenBySeven2610.jpg)" class="css-18qqsen e1eullfg0"><div class="css-1hmsypo e1eullfg2"><div class="css-131hid3 e1eullfg3"><div class="css-1uhi299 e1eullfg1"></div><div class="css-1tloyb6"><div class="css-1djf3wc ehra6vc0"><a href="https://www.nytimes.com/column/the-improvement-association" class="css-2ne0py"><span class="css-4oqdoz"><img alt="The Improvement Association logo" src="https://static01.nyt.com/images/2021/02/17/podcasts/tia-serial-albumartwork/tia-serial-albumartwork-square320.png"/><span>The Improvement Association</span></span></a></div></div><div class="css-1r0dpua e1eullfg4"><div class="css-1bnu8al edye5kn0"><div><h1 class="css-1be2yon edye5kn2">Introducing: The Improvement Association</h1><h2 class="css-corlih edye5kn3">A true story about election fraud.</h2></div><span class="css-39l1fe edye5kn4"></span></div><div class="css-1g7y0i5 e1drnplw0"><button tabindex="100" class="css-1rtlxy" type="button" aria-label="close"><svg width="60" height="60" viewBox="0 0 60 60" fill="none"><circle cx="30" cy="30" r="30" fill="white" fill-opacity="0.9"></circle><path fill-rule="evenodd" clip-rule="evenodd" d="M38.4844 20.1006L39.8986 21.5148L21.5138 39.8996L20.0996 38.4854L38.4844 20.1006Z" fill="black"></path><path fill-rule="evenodd" clip-rule="evenodd" d="M21.5156 20.1006L20.1014 21.5148L38.4862 39.8996L39.9004 38.4854L21.5156 20.1006Z" fill="black"></path></svg></button><div class="css-rdbib0 e1drnplw1"></div><div class="css-18ow4sz e1drnplw2"><div aria-labelledby="modal-title" role="region"><header class="css-1bzlfz"><div class="css-mln36k" id="modal-title">transcript</div><button type="button" class="css-1igvuto"><div class="css-f40pzg"></div><span>Back to The Improvement Association</span></button><div class="css-f6lhej" data-testid="transcript-playback-controls"><div class="css-1ialerq"><button tabindex="99" type="button" class="css-1eut9gw" aria-label="play"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none"><path fill-rule="evenodd" clip-rule="evenodd" d="M8 13.7683V6L14.5 9.88415L8 13.7683Z" fill="var(--color-content-secondary,#363636)"></path><circle cx="10" cy="10" r="9.25" stroke="var(--color-stroke-primary,#121212)" stroke-width="1.5"></circle></svg></button><div class="css-1701swk"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" viewBox="0 0 40 36" id="el_0kpS9qL_S"><title>bars</title><g id="el_oZ84Hna1GC_65hRV2Qwn" class="css-1fxvzwo" data-animator-group="true" data-animator-type="0"><g id="el_oZ84Hna1GC_ILVvi2tqx" class="css-1wnday1" ata-animator-group="true" 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href="https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/22/podcasts/election-fraud-improvement-association.html?action=click&amp;module=audio-series-bar&amp;region=header&amp;pgtype=Article"><img alt="" src="https://static01.nyt.com/images/2021/04/22/podcasts/tia-serial-promoart/tia-serial-promoart-thumbLarge-v3.png" class="css-17x2avq e1gfokfg4"/><div class="css-14o8mz7 e1gfokfg2"><span><svg width="40" height="40" viewBox="0 0 40 40" fill="none" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"><path d="M40 20C40 31.0457 31.0457 40 20 40C8.9543 40 0 31.0457 0 20C0 8.9543 8.9543 0 20 0C31.0457 0 40 8.9543 40 20Z" fill="black" fill-opacity="0.2"></path><path fill-rule="evenodd" clip-rule="evenodd" d="M20 38C29.9411 38 38 29.9411 38 20C38 10.0589 29.9411 2 20 2C10.0589 2 2 10.0589 2 20C2 29.9411 10.0589 38 20 38ZM20 40C31.0457 40 40 31.0457 40 20C40 8.9543 31.0457 0 20 0C8.9543 0 0 8.9543 0 20C0 31.0457 8.9543 40 20 40Z" fill="white"></path><path fill-rule="evenodd" clip-rule="evenodd" d="M9.91667 5.83333L0 11.6667V0L9.91667 5.83333Z" transform="translate(17.082 14.1666)" fill="white"></path></svg></span></div><div class="css-1qq8bvn"><time class="css-155ecpy">March 30, 2021<span>  <span class="css-orcm78">•</span>  <!-- -->2:47</span></time><span class="css-i5svdo">Introducing: The Improvement Association</span></div></a></div><div data-recirc-bar-item="true" class="css-uq6cyc e1gfokfg3"><a href="https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/13/podcasts/the-improvement-association-chapter-one-the-big-shadoo.html?action=click&amp;module=audio-series-bar&amp;region=header&amp;pgtype=Article"><img alt="" src="https://static01.nyt.com/images/2021/04/22/podcasts/tia-serial-promoart/tia-serial-promoart-thumbLarge-v3.png" class="css-17x2avq e1gfokfg4"/><div class="css-14o8mz7 e1gfokfg2"><span><svg width="40" height="40" viewBox="0 0 40 40" fill="none" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"><path d="M40 20C40 31.0457 31.0457 40 20 40C8.9543 40 0 31.0457 0 20C0 8.9543 8.9543 0 20 0C31.0457 0 40 8.9543 40 20Z" fill="black" fill-opacity="0.2"></path><path fill-rule="evenodd" clip-rule="evenodd" d="M20 38C29.9411 38 38 29.9411 38 20C38 10.0589 29.9411 2 20 2C10.0589 2 2 10.0589 2 20C2 29.9411 10.0589 38 20 38ZM20 40C31.0457 40 40 31.0457 40 20C40 8.9543 31.0457 0 20 0C8.9543 0 0 8.9543 0 20C0 31.0457 8.9543 40 20 40Z" fill="white"></path><path fill-rule="evenodd" clip-rule="evenodd" d="M9.91667 5.83333L0 11.6667V0L9.91667 5.83333Z" transform="translate(17.082 14.1666)" fill="white"></path></svg></span></div><div class="css-1qq8bvn"><time class="css-155ecpy">April 13, 2021<span>  <span class="css-orcm78">•</span>  <!-- -->46:10</span></time><span class="css-i5svdo">The Improvement Association, Chapter One: ‘The Big Shadoo’</span></div></a></div><div data-recirc-bar-item="true" class="css-uq6cyc e1gfokfg3"><a href="https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/15/podcasts/the-improvement-association-chapter-two.html?action=click&amp;module=audio-series-bar&amp;region=header&amp;pgtype=Article"><img alt="" src="https://static01.nyt.com/images/2021/04/22/podcasts/tia-serial-promoart/tia-serial-promoart-thumbLarge-v3.png" class="css-17x2avq e1gfokfg4"/><div class="css-14o8mz7 e1gfokfg2"><span><svg width="40" height="40" viewBox="0 0 40 40" fill="none" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"><path d="M40 20C40 31.0457 31.0457 40 20 40C8.9543 40 0 31.0457 0 20C0 8.9543 8.9543 0 20 0C31.0457 0 40 8.9543 40 20Z" fill="black" fill-opacity="0.2"></path><path fill-rule="evenodd" clip-rule="evenodd" d="M20 38C29.9411 38 38 29.9411 38 20C38 10.0589 29.9411 2 20 2C10.0589 2 2 10.0589 2 20C2 29.9411 10.0589 38 20 38ZM20 40C31.0457 40 40 31.0457 40 20C40 8.9543 31.0457 0 20 0C8.9543 0 0 8.9543 0 20C0 31.0457 8.9543 40 20 40Z" fill="white"></path><path fill-rule="evenodd" clip-rule="evenodd" d="M9.91667 5.83333L0 11.6667V0L9.91667 5.83333Z" transform="translate(17.082 14.1666)" fill="white"></path></svg></span></div><div class="css-1qq8bvn"><time class="css-155ecpy">April 15, 2021<span>  <span class="css-orcm78">•</span>  <!-- -->46:07</span></time><span class="css-i5svdo">The Improvement Association, Chapter Two: ‘Where Is Your Choice?’</span></div></a></div><div data-recirc-bar-item="true" class="css-uq6cyc e1gfokfg3"><a href="https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/20/podcasts/the-improvement-association-election-fraud.html?action=click&amp;module=audio-series-bar&amp;region=header&amp;pgtype=Article"><img alt="" src="https://static01.nyt.com/images/2021/04/22/podcasts/tia-serial-promoart/tia-serial-promoart-thumbLarge-v3.png" class="css-17x2avq e1gfokfg4"/><div class="css-14o8mz7 e1gfokfg2"><span><svg width="40" height="40" viewBox="0 0 40 40" fill="none" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"><path d="M40 20C40 31.0457 31.0457 40 20 40C8.9543 40 0 31.0457 0 20C0 8.9543 8.9543 0 20 0C31.0457 0 40 8.9543 40 20Z" fill="black" fill-opacity="0.2"></path><path fill-rule="evenodd" clip-rule="evenodd" d="M20 38C29.9411 38 38 29.9411 38 20C38 10.0589 29.9411 2 20 2C10.0589 2 2 10.0589 2 20C2 29.9411 10.0589 38 20 38ZM20 40C31.0457 40 40 31.0457 40 20C40 8.9543 31.0457 0 20 0C8.9543 0 0 8.9543 0 20C0 31.0457 8.9543 40 20 40Z" fill="white"></path><path fill-rule="evenodd" clip-rule="evenodd" d="M9.91667 5.83333L0 11.6667V0L9.91667 5.83333Z" transform="translate(17.082 14.1666)" fill="white"></path></svg></span></div><div class="css-1qq8bvn"><time class="css-155ecpy">April 20, 2021<span>  <span class="css-orcm78">•</span>  <!-- -->41:33</span></time><span class="css-i5svdo">The Improvement Association, Chapter Three: The Ballad of the Nursing Home Ballots</span></div></a></div><div data-recirc-bar-item="true" class="css-uq6cyc e1gfokfg3"><a href="https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/22/podcasts/the-improvement-association-election-fraud.html?action=click&amp;module=audio-series-bar&amp;region=header&amp;pgtype=Article"><img alt="" src="https://static01.nyt.com/images/2021/04/22/podcasts/tia-serial-promoart/tia-serial-promoart-thumbLarge-v3.png" class="css-17x2avq e1gfokfg4"/><div class="css-14o8mz7 e1gfokfg2"><span><svg width="40" height="40" viewBox="0 0 40 40" fill="none" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"><path d="M40 20C40 31.0457 31.0457 40 20 40C8.9543 40 0 31.0457 0 20C0 8.9543 8.9543 0 20 0C31.0457 0 40 8.9543 40 20Z" fill="black" fill-opacity="0.2"></path><path fill-rule="evenodd" clip-rule="evenodd" d="M20 38C29.9411 38 38 29.9411 38 20C38 10.0589 29.9411 2 20 2C10.0589 2 2 10.0589 2 20C2 29.9411 10.0589 38 20 38ZM20 40C31.0457 40 40 31.0457 40 20C40 8.9543 31.0457 0 20 0C8.9543 0 0 8.9543 0 20C0 31.0457 8.9543 40 20 40Z" fill="white"></path><path fill-rule="evenodd" clip-rule="evenodd" d="M9.91667 5.83333L0 11.6667V0L9.91667 5.83333Z" transform="translate(17.082 14.1666)" fill="white"></path></svg></span></div><div class="css-1qq8bvn"><time class="css-155ecpy">April 22, 2021<span>  <span class="css-orcm78">•</span>  <!-- -->52:59</span></time><span class="css-i5svdo">The Improvement Association, Chapter Four: ‘Let Them Pull the Red Wagon’</span></div></a></div><div data-recirc-bar-item="true" class="css-uq6cyc e1gfokfg3"><a href="https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/27/podcasts/the-improvement-association-election-fraud.html?action=click&amp;module=audio-series-bar&amp;region=header&amp;pgtype=Article"><img alt="" src="https://static01.nyt.com/images/2021/04/22/podcasts/tia-serial-promoart/tia-serial-promoart-thumbLarge-v3.png" class="css-17x2avq e1gfokfg4"/><div class="css-14o8mz7 e1gfokfg2"><span><svg width="40" height="40" viewBox="0 0 40 40" fill="none" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"><path d="M40 20C40 31.0457 31.0457 40 20 40C8.9543 40 0 31.0457 0 20C0 8.9543 8.9543 0 20 0C31.0457 0 40 8.9543 40 20Z" fill="black" fill-opacity="0.2"></path><path fill-rule="evenodd" clip-rule="evenodd" d="M20 38C29.9411 38 38 29.9411 38 20C38 10.0589 29.9411 2 20 2C10.0589 2 2 10.0589 2 20C2 29.9411 10.0589 38 20 38ZM20 40C31.0457 40 40 31.0457 40 20C40 8.9543 31.0457 0 20 0C8.9543 0 0 8.9543 0 20C0 31.0457 8.9543 40 20 40Z" fill="white"></path><path fill-rule="evenodd" clip-rule="evenodd" d="M9.91667 5.83333L0 11.6667V0L9.91667 5.83333Z" transform="translate(17.082 14.1666)" fill="white"></path></svg></span></div><div class="css-1qq8bvn"><time class="css-155ecpy">April 27, 2021<span>  <span class="css-orcm78">•</span>  <!-- -->50:45</span></time><span class="css-i5svdo">The Improvement Association, Chapter Five: ‘Democrat, Republican, White, Black, Green’</span></div></a></div><div data-recirc-bar-item="true" class="css-uq6cyc e1gfokfg3"><div class="css-1o3broy"><a href="https://www.nytimes.com/column/the-improvement-association" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer"><span class="css-l790rr">See All Episodes of</span><span class="css-cbc4vz">The Improvement Association</span></a></div></div></div><button type="button" class="css-1anqzt0"><span class="css-1ly73wi e1tej78p0">Next</span><svg width="13" height="23" viewBox="0 0 13 23" fill="none" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"><path 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fill-rule="nonzero"></path></svg><span class="css-1re6eyk"><a href="/2021/04/22/podcasts/election-fraud-improvement-association.html">29</a></span></div></span></li></ul></div></div></div><section name="articleBody" class="meteredContent css-1r7ky0e"><div class="css-s99gbd StoryBodyCompanionColumn" data-testid="companionColumn-0"><div class="css-53u6y8"><div class="css-zera2v"><div class="css-p6m5rf"><div class="byline-container css-1e2jphy epjyd6m2"><div class="css-233int epjyd6m1"><p class="css-1xuzukf e1jsehar1"><span class="byline-prefix">Reporting by </span><span class="css-1baulvz last-byline" itemProp="name">Zoe Chace</span></p><p class="css-1xuzukf e1jsehar1"><span class="byline-prefix">Produced by </span><span class="css-1baulvz last-byline" itemProp="name">Nancy Updike</span></p><p class="css-1xuzukf e1jsehar1"><span class="byline-prefix">With </span><span class="css-1baulvz last-byline" itemProp="name">Amy Pedulla</span></p><p class="css-1xuzukf e1jsehar1"><span class="byline-prefix">Edited by </span><span class="css-1m8js5u" itemProp="name">Julie Snyder</span><span class="css-1m8js5u" itemProp="name">Sarah Koenig</span><span class="css-1baulvz" itemProp="name">Neil Drumming</span> and <span class="css-1baulvz last-byline" itemProp="name">Ira Glass</span></p><p class="css-1xuzukf e1jsehar1"><span class="byline-prefix">Original music by </span><span class="css-1baulvz last-byline" itemProp="name">Kwame Brandt-Pierce</span></p><p class="css-1xuzukf e1jsehar1"><span class="byline-prefix">Engineered by </span><span class="css-1baulvz last-byline" itemProp="name">Phoebe Wang</span></p><div class="css-1gqes1i epjyd6m0"></div></div></div></div></div><h3 class="css-1vs5pxi e1gnsphs0" id="link-1fffad5c"><span><strong class="css-8qgvsz ebyp5n10"><em class="css-2fg4z9 e1gzwzxm0">Listen and follow The Improvement Association.</em></strong><br/><strong class="css-8qgvsz ebyp5n10"><a class="css-yywogo" href="https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-improvement-association/id1556533149" title="" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank"><em class="css-2fg4z9 e1gzwzxm0">Apple Podcasts</em></a></strong><strong class="css-8qgvsz ebyp5n10"><em class="css-2fg4z9 e1gzwzxm0"> | </em></strong><strong class="css-8qgvsz ebyp5n10"><a class="css-yywogo" href="https://open.spotify.com/show/05IaQthMEh8NSqpbfaO12y" title="" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank"><em class="css-2fg4z9 e1gzwzxm0">Spotify</em></a></strong><strong class="css-8qgvsz ebyp5n10"><em class="css-2fg4z9 e1gzwzxm0"> | </em></strong><strong class="css-8qgvsz ebyp5n10"><a class="css-yywogo" href="https://www.stitcher.com/show/the-improvement-association" title="" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank"><em class="css-2fg4z9 e1gzwzxm0">Stitcher</em></a></strong><strong class="css-8qgvsz ebyp5n10"><em class="css-2fg4z9 e1gzwzxm0"> | </em></strong><strong class="css-8qgvsz ebyp5n10"><a class="css-yywogo" href="https://feeds.simplecast.com/zG20qvRw" title="" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank"><em class="css-2fg4z9 e1gzwzxm0">RSS</em></a></strong></span></h3><h3 class="css-15h6bi9 e1gnsphs0" id="link-2cd4062a"><span>From the makers of Serial and The New York Times: The Improvement Association. In this five-part audio series, join the reporter Zoe Chace as she travels to Bladen County, N.C., to investigate the power of election fraud allegations — even when they’re not substantiated.</span></h3><p class="css-at9mc1 evys1bk0">A few years ago, Bladen County, N.C., made national headlines. In 2018, Mark Harris, a Republican, beat out his Democratic opponent for a congressional seat, but the <a class="css-yywogo" href="https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/21/us/mark-harris-nc-voter-fraud.html" title="">election was later thrown out</a> and a new election was called after his campaign was investigated over suspicions of absentee-ballot fraud.</p><p class="css-at9mc1 evys1bk0">But according to some local residents, the authorities got it all wrong. They say there’s a powerful group still at work in the county, tampering with elections, bullying voters and stealing votes — a Black advocacy group, the Bladen County Improvement Association PAC. These accusations have never been substantiated, but they persist.</p><p class="css-at9mc1 evys1bk0">Join Zoe Chace as she travels to Bladen County to find out what’s behind all this suspicion. Who exactly is making the accusations? And in small-town politics, where rumors and allegations abound, how can you be sure who is telling the truth?</p><h2 class="css-1u37br4 eoo0vm40" id="link-306658e">Chapter 1: ‘The Big Shadoo’</h2></div><aside class="css-ew4tgv" aria-label="companion column"></aside></div><div data-testid="AudioBlock-1"><figure class="margins-h css-1nhp71k"><figcaption class="css-5soref"><div class="audioFigureHeading"><h3 class="css-71086k">Listen to Chapter One.</h3><span class="css-xhi848">Who’s been cheating in Bladen County?</span></div></figcaption><div class="css-1ijhom3"><div><div class="css-1g7y0i5 e1drnplw0"><button tabindex="100" class="css-1rtlxy" type="button" aria-label="close"><svg width="60" height="60" viewBox="0 0 60 60" fill="none"><circle cx="30" cy="30" r="30" fill="white" fill-opacity="0.9"></circle><path fill-rule="evenodd" clip-rule="evenodd" d="M38.4844 20.1006L39.8986 21.5148L21.5138 39.8996L20.0996 38.4854L38.4844 20.1006Z" fill="black"></path><path fill-rule="evenodd" clip-rule="evenodd" d="M21.5156 20.1006L20.1014 21.5148L38.4862 39.8996L39.9004 38.4854L21.5156 20.1006Z" fill="black"></path></svg></button><div class="css-rdbib0 e1drnplw1"></div><div class="css-18ow4sz e1drnplw2"><div aria-labelledby="modal-title" role="region"><header class="css-1bzlfz"><div class="css-mln36k" id="modal-title">transcript</div><button type="button" class="css-1igvuto"><div class="css-f40pzg"></div><span>Back to The Improvement Association</span></button><div class="css-f6lhej" data-testid="transcript-playback-controls"><div class="css-1ialerq"><button tabindex="99" type="button" class="css-1eut9gw" aria-label="play"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none"><path fill-rule="evenodd" clip-rule="evenodd" d="M8 13.7683V6L14.5 9.88415L8 13.7683Z" fill="var(--color-content-secondary,#363636)"></path><circle cx="10" cy="10" r="9.25" stroke="var(--color-stroke-primary,#121212)" stroke-width="1.5"></circle></svg></button><div class="css-1701swk"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" viewBox="0 0 40 36" id="el_0kpS9qL_S"><title>bars</title><g id="el_oZ84Hna1GC_65hRV2Qwn" class="css-1fxvzwo" data-animator-group="true" data-animator-type="0"><g id="el_oZ84Hna1GC_ILVvi2tqx" class="css-1wnday1" ata-animator-group="true" data-animator-type="2"><g id="el_oZ84Hna1GC"><rect x="34" width="6" height="36" id="el_qw_T_tngXw"></rect></g></g></g><g id="el_mYVjkduhMU_p_9Pm85Ac" class="css-fwki7z" data-animator-group="true" data-animator-type="0"><g id="el_mYVjkduhMU_WxG3R40yd" class="css-t3i5e6" data-animator-group="true" data-animator-type="2"><g id="el_mYVjkduhMU"><rect x="22.67" width="6" height="36" id="el_lf9GrROk6j"></rect></g></g></g><g id="el_o-EuxhgoAw_kYNRGDfcw" class="css-t9te0w" data-animator-group="true" data-animator-type="0"><g id="el_o-EuxhgoAw_3c3bzSjOJ" class="css-1r5375t" ata-animator-group="true" data-animator-type="2"><g id="el_o-EuxhgoAw"><rect x="11.33" width="6" height="36" id="el_-iueO8klO0"></rect></g></g></g><g id="el_F7mSMPhqpC_y_fKcpSxn" class="css-qknaag" data-animator-group="true" data-animator-type="0"><g id="el_F7mSMPhqpC_R6bNB6_Ys" class="css-1ruvd04" ata-animator-group="true" data-animator-type="2"><g id="el_F7mSMPhqpC"><rect width="6" height="36" id="el_dS5TKNZZ5w"></rect></g></g></g></svg></div><div><div class="css-1t7yl1y">0:00<!-- -->/<!-- -->46:10</div><div class="css-og85jy">-<!-- -->46:10</div></div></div></div></header><div class="css-uzyn7p"><div class="css-1vxywau"><p class="css-1nng8z9">transcript</p><h2 class="css-8p0vwh">Listen to Chapter One.</h2><h4 class="css-qsd3hm">Who’s been cheating in Bladen County?</h4></div><dl class="css-p98d0w"><dl class="css-1jysr6y"><dt class="css-safvus">archived recording</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">From Serial Productions and The New York Times, this is The Improvement Association.</p></dd></dl><dt class="css-safvus">zoe chace</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Prologue, “Other People’s Ballots.” [MUSIC] There is one glaring example — one — of an election fraud case that Republicans and Democrats agree happened. It was 2018 in North Carolina, the only time in recent history — recent like the last 80 years — that a congressional election was thrown out for fraud. Democrats like to talk about this case because it was Republicans who did the cheating. Republicans like to talk about it without mentioning who did the cheating because it proves that election fraud does happen, which it does. Not very often, but it does. I like to talk about this case because of how personal the whole thing was, how rooted in this one county. It wasn’t the result of some complex, national conspiracy to rig voting machines. It was individual people in a tight-knit place, using their relationships to either make money or take revenge or both. It looks like this. In the midterm election of 2018, this guy, Mark Harris, white, Republican, former Baptist pastor, ran for Congress in North Carolina. It seemed at first like he definitely won. He beat the Democrat by 905 votes. But in one of the counties in his district, Bladen County, the number of absentee ballots was suspiciously high, way out of whack with the rest of the district. Before the election was even over, wild complaints from voters were pouring in. People said their absentee ballots had been taken from their homes, and then their ballots had never made it into the Board of Elections to be counted, or that they handed their blank ballots to others to be filled out, or that their signatures were forged. The State Board of Elections held a big hearing to figure out what was going on. That’s when I clicked into it because I know Bladen County. Two years earlier, I had done a radio story on a small election scandal in this exact same place. Ever since, I’d had a Google alert on the guy at the center of both cases, McCrae Dowless. This quiet white guy in a windbreaker, smoking a cigarette, a real operator, an elections pro, who seemed to specialize in getting out the vote via absentee ballot. Now here he was, turning up again at this big state hearing about cheating.</p></dd><dl class="css-1jysr6y"><dt class="css-safvus">archived recording</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">I think we’re ready to start, and I think we’ll start —</p></dd></dl><dt class="css-safvus">zoe chace</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">To me, the hearing was riveting because of the testimony. Now McCrae is basically an elections professional, who loves politics, but the people who worked for him who took the stand and testified, they were not like that. This was a job they did for a few weeks or a few months, for a little extra money. And they all seemed kind of dazed and upset that this side gig had landed them here, facing a long table of lawyers.</p></dd><dl class="css-1jysr6y"><dt class="css-safvus">archived recording</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Thank you.</p></dd></dl><dt class="css-safvus">zoe chace</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">One young woman, named Kelly Hendricks, with a baby face, looked so nervous when she took the stand. I saw her take this deep breath and carefully exhale before she began talking. The state investigator asked her if she worked for McCrae Dowless in the 2018 election.</p></dd><dl class="css-1jysr6y"><dt class="css-safvus">archived recording (kelly hendricks)</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Yes, ma’am.</p></dd></dl><dt class="css-safvus">zoe chace</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">And at the very next question —</p></dd><dl class="css-1jysr6y"><dt class="css-safvus">archived recording</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">And could you tell the board how you first met Mr. McCrae Dowless?</p></dd></dl><dt class="css-safvus">zoe chace</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">— Kelly’s face crumpled up just like a kid, and she started to cry. It was hard to watch. She grabbed a tissue and tried to talk through it. She said she’d been working at Hardee’s, and McCrae came through the drive-thru. That’s how they first met.</p></dd><dl class="css-1jysr6y"><dt class="css-safvus">archived recording (kelly hendricks)</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">And just from there, he resembled my dad so much that I just — I connected with him. I mean, from there, that’s how I met him.</p></dd></dl><dt class="css-safvus">zoe chace</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Kelly ended up working get out the vote for McCrae. She offered absentee request forms to family members, her boyfriend’s family, a Hardy’s customer. She said she’d picked up absentee ballots, which is illegal in North Carolina, and that she’d brought the ballots back to McCrae, instead of to the Board of Elections. Sometimes, she said, he asked her to sign as a witness on absentee ballots she had not actually witnessed when they were being filled out. So much of the testimony was emotional. You got this real sense of betrayal. McCrae’s whole Get Out the Vote operation seemed to lean heavily on people who were close to him. One of McCrae’s workers was a stepdaughter. Another was his ex-wife, the stepdaughter’s mom. When Lisa Britt, the stepdaughter, took the stand for most of the day, she looked miserable, like her head was almost too heavy for her hand to hold up. She testified that she’d taken ballots from people’s homes — again, illegal in North Carolina. And she’d filled ballots out for voters after the fact — illegal everywhere in the United States of America.</p></dd><dl class="css-1jysr6y"><dt class="css-safvus">archived recording</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">So you were filling in the ovals and voting for other people, right?</p></dd><dt class="css-safvus">archived recording (lisa britt)</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Yes, sir.</p></dd><dt class="css-safvus">archived recording</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">You were voting other people’s ballots?</p></dd><dt class="css-safvus">archived recording (lisa britt)</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Yes, sir.</p></dd><dt class="css-safvus">archived recording</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">All right. I assume you knew that it was not legal to vote other people’s ballots.</p></dd><dt class="css-safvus">archived recording (lisa britt)</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Right. We were doing what we were paid to do.</p></dd><dt class="css-safvus">archived recording</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">I understand, but you were paid to do something that you knew was wrong.</p></dd><dt class="css-safvus">archived recording (lisa britt)</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Yes, sir.</p></dd></dl><dt class="css-safvus">zoe chace</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Why didn’t you ask any questions about what McCrae was asking you to do, the lawyer started to say at one point. And Lisa snapped at him.</p></dd><dl class="css-1jysr6y"><dt class="css-safvus">archived recording (lisa britt)</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Mr. Dowless has been a father figure to me for 30 years. So, no, there’s a lot of things that you kind of would place trust in, in someone that’s your father that’s not going to put you out here to do something illegal, I mean.</p></dd></dl><dt class="css-safvus">zoe chace</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">McCrae didn’t take the stand. He also declined very politely my interview requests. At the end of four days of hearings, Mark Harris, the Republican candidate McCrae was working for, announced he was stepping aside, and he himself called for a new election. The state of North Carolina agreed and set a date for a special election.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">The whole scene made me sad. It felt very human-sized. Meeting up at the Hardee’s drive-thru? McCrae Dowless was indicted on 13 counts, including perjury, obstruction. He has yet to plead.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">OK, so you know how in TV shows, sometimes there’s a minor character who later goes on to have a whole show built around them? That character from this hearing is a man named Horace Munn. During the hearing, Horace Munn made a tiny guest appearance. McCrae’s stepdaughter talked about him. She said she’d seen this guy Horace in McCrae’s office while the election was going on. He’d been making copies of absentee ballot request forms for some reason, she said. She believed he’d been coordinating with McCrae. Horace was in the audience while she was saying this, one of the only Black guys in the audience, it looked like. At the request of the state board, she pointed him out.</p></dd><dl class="css-1jysr6y"><dt class="css-safvus">archived recording</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Can we get his name, please, for the record?</p></dd><dt class="css-safvus">archived recording (lisa britt)</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">The gentleman’s name is Horace Munn.</p></dd><dt class="css-safvus">archived recording</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Are you Mr. Munn?</p></dd><dt class="css-safvus">archived recording (horace munn)</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Yes, sir, I am.</p></dd><dt class="css-safvus">archived recording</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">All right, thank you, sir.</p></dd></dl><dt class="css-safvus">zoe chace</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">When I saw Horace pop up in the hearing, I was like, what the hell? Because I knew Horace. He was part of that story I did a few years earlier in Bladen County. I knew he was the head of the political arm of a black Democratic organization in Bladen called the Bladen County Improvement Association. And I knew Horace and McCrae were huge political rivals. I knew they couldn’t stand each other. Watching this hearing, Horace’s name only came up a bit, but the name of his organization was invoked a lot. It was weird every time. People were claiming that the Bladen County Improvement Association had been working with McCrae and that they must be cheaters, too. But why would a Democratic organization be conspiring with a Republican operator on absentee ballot fraud to benefit the Republican candidate? The Bladen Improvement Group wasn’t the focus of this hearing. This was about the fraud McCrae’s team had allegedly perpetrated for the Republicans. And yet, in the closing remarks for the hearing, it seemed the state board had somehow landed on a both sides conclusion.</p></dd><dl class="css-1jysr6y"><dt class="css-safvus">archived recording</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">And I just wanted to say to the North Carolina voters that this board of election will work and continue to work until the activities of individuals such as McCrae Dowless and organizations such as the Bladen County Improvement Association no longer create any confusion and chaos in our elections. Thank you, sir.</p></dd></dl><dt class="css-safvus">zoe chace</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Not long after this all happened, I got a call in the middle of the night.</p></dd><dl class="css-1jysr6y"><dt class="css-safvus">archived recording (horace munn)</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Hello, Ms. Chace. This is Horace, the person you talked to a couple of years ago.</p></dd></dl><dt class="css-safvus">zoe chace</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">It was Horace Munn, head of Bladen Improvement. He had something he wanted to explain to me about that hearing. He wanted to explain the entire world it had come from. He texted, “Hi. Just thinking and wanted to know if you would consider doing an article about the South and Bladen County.” I did consider it. From Serial Productions, I’m Zoe Chace, and this is The Improvement Association, a true story about election fraud.</p></dd><dt class="css-safvus">[music]</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd"></p><p class="css-8hvvyd">Chapter One, The Big Shadoo.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">Bladen is a rural county in the southeastern part of North Carolina. Beautiful, a lot of green open land when you drive through. Some of it’s farms, some tiny towns. Often, when I want to talk to someone there, people don’t tell me how to reach them, but where to find them. Oh, Mike. He’s at the barber shop in Elizabethtown. Oh, that guy. He hangs out outside the hardware store. There’s bad cell service, not great internet. People do a lot of business face-to-face. And the election fights are like that, too, face-to-face — or hand-to-hand, really. I’m going to tell you the story of how this place ended up becoming the only place in modern times that threw out a congressional election for fraud. What led to that election is a series of elections, all of them on the ground gritty, like the place itself. And what underlies all of it is the very oldest fight in Bladen County — the fight to control the Black vote.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">The idea that some people cheat is something people here talk about all the time, that someone’s getting over, someone’s cutting corners, someone’s breaking the rules, specifically, when it comes to elections. When I first headed down here after the text from Horace, my questions were simple. Was he in on some kind of conspiracy with McCrae? And what did he want to tell me? And I thought that’s what I’d be talking about — election corruption or something — with this group of people Horace Munn told me I needed to meet. He’d said, come down here. I got two county commissioners, a former Board of Elections person, and a former sheriff, all ready to talk. So I showed up in the tiny town hall of the tiny town of East Arcadia.</p></dd><dl class="css-1jysr6y"><dt class="css-safvus">speaker</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">That was in the late ‘80s, early ‘90s.</p></dd></dl><dt class="css-safvus">zoe chace</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Everyone was already talking when I got there. They’re all deep into local politics. And listening to them is like when basketball fans talk about March Madness or something. I don’t know the teams. I don’t know the players. The small talk is really hard for me to follow.</p></dd><dl class="css-1jysr6y"><dt class="css-safvus">speaker</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">And another person ran.</p></dd><dt class="css-safvus">zoe chace</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Which office was this?</p></dd><dt class="css-safvus">speaker</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">And that was the county commissioner.</p></dd><dt class="css-safvus">zoe chace</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">OK.</p></dd><dt class="css-safvus">speaker</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">He ran for county commissioner.</p></dd></dl><dt class="css-safvus">zoe chace</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Almost everyone here is a member of Horace’s organization, the full name of which is the Bladen County Improvement Association PAC. Members of the PAC generally just call it the PAC, even though it’s not a PAC the way people usually think of a PAC. It’s not a sluice for dark money. It doesn’t bankroll TV commercials. This is what it is — a local group that runs get out the vote campaigns during elections for and by Black people in Bladen County. They endorse candidates. Sometimes they get money from candidates — not every single time — and usually they get money from the state Democratic party. The meeting is awkward at first. I expected Horace to sort of take the lead here, but he’s hanging back, sitting at the furthest corner of the table, quiet. Horace, kind of short, stocky, almost always with his trademark accessories of sunglasses and cap, even indoors. I don’t want you to see my eyes, he said once. And I was like, but that makes it way harder for me to see how you’re feeling. That’s the point, he told me. Horace is private. He does not like to feel things in public. He grew up here in this little town of East Arcadia. He’s retired now. He was career army, but he’s pretty involved in this town. He’s on the town council, has been for 10 years. He’s the volunteer fire chief. During elections, he’s running the Bladen County Improvement Association PAC. Anyway, I kept waiting for Horace or someone to haul off like, and here’s what we want to tell you about the cheating, reporter. But it’s not happening. So, finally, I’m like —</p></dd><dl class="css-1jysr6y"><dt class="css-safvus">zoe chace</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Well, I’m happy to take you guys through the questions I have, but I also do want to say that when Horace and I spoke, he said that there were some things that some of you guys had on your mind that you wanted to discuss. And a big part of the reason I came down here today for this meeting specifically was to find out what that is, hear what you’re thinking about.</p></dd></dl><dt class="css-safvus">zoe chace</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Long pause, then a little more chatting, until, finally, Horace’s friend, Cogdell, George Michael Cogdell — everyone calls him Cogdell — kind of takes over the meeting, as he’s want to do. He’s been in the Bladen Improvement PAC even longer than Horace. Cogdell’s an intense guy, a fast talker.</p></dd><dl class="css-1jysr6y"><dt class="css-safvus">george michael cogdell</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">I’m going to say this. And I may be wrong, but I’m going to say it. They’ve been trying to get rid of us ever since I’ve been associated with the PAC because it’s very simple. If they don’t endorse you, you can’t win.</p></dd></dl><dt class="css-safvus">zoe chace</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">If they don’t endorse you, actually meaning if we don’t endorse you, we the Bladen Improvement PAC. If the PAC doesn’t endorse you, you can’t win, Cogdell is saying. For years, the PAC has been a powerful force in Bladen politics, because the pack reliably delivers votes, Black votes. Politicians, both white and Black, often court the PAC because their endorsement is so valuable. It can swing elections. That’s why the Bladen Improvement PAC is coming under attack, Cogdell is saying, because we’re too powerful. The thing Cogdell and Horace want to tell me is this. Republicans have been cheating down here. And each election, they get bolder. And each time, Republicans and Bladen try to paint the PAC with the crimes that they themselves are committing. This is how these guys see it. That’s what was going on in Raleigh, Horace says, during the state hearing about McCrae Dowless. Republicans bring up the PAC to distract from McCrae, he says. It’s a strategy.</p></dd><dl class="css-1jysr6y"><dt class="css-safvus">george michael cogdell</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">They were fully aware of what McCrae was doing. But what they would do to throw off from McCrae, they would always talk about the Bladen Improvement PAC doing illegal activities. They would keep the heat off of him by putting it on the Bladen Improvement PAC. And they’re doing the same thing again. They made a big shadoo ‘cause there was just so much publicity and they do nothing with it.</p></dd></dl><dt class="css-safvus">zoe chace</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">They made a big shadoo about McCrae because they had to, but what they really want to talk about is us, Cogdell is saying. And he waves around his big mug of ice. The hearing, Horace says, was just more of the same, except bigger, in order to bring the PAC down once and for all, in order to weaken its power or just kill it off. But why, I’m asking him, and Horace interrupts.</p></dd><dl class="css-1jysr6y"><dt class="css-safvus">horace munn</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Let me explain something to you, to go back to 2010.</p></dd></dl><dt class="css-safvus">zoe chace</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Let me explain something to you, Horace says. Let’s go back to 2010. And this is where Horace really pipes up. Horace leans across the table to tell me what he sees as the origin story of how that 2018 congressional race blew up, what’s behind all of these election fraud allegations in Bladen, and what the Republicans have been up to for the last 10 years here. He wants to tell me what all that has to do with the PAC and with him. In 2010, the PAC fought to get Horace’s friend, Prentis Benston, elected as the first Black Sheriff in Bladen County’s history. Horace had just become the president of the PAC, and he had this big plan.</p></dd><dl class="css-1jysr6y"><dt class="css-safvus">horace munn</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">I knew that it was going to be a hard campaign for him to win.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">Knowing the breakdown of Bladen County, i.e., the racial breakdown, we knew it to be tough. He couldn’t win with just Black votes. He had to have white votes.</p></dd></dl><dt class="css-safvus">zoe chace</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Bladen County, around 35,000 people, is about 30% Black and 60% white. So usually, white people decided who was Sheriff. Horace knew, as a rule, white people didn’t vote for Black candidates in this county. So if you’re running a Black candidate in a countywide race, trying to win a majority of the county, and the majority of the county is white, you’ll definitely lose. But Horace thought Prentis Benston was different. He had a real chance to pick up some white voters. There was this feeling at the time, Horace says. Obama had just been elected president. He’d won North Carolina. Some white people would vote for a Black man to be in charge. And Prentis was a good candidate. He’d been a Sheriff’s deputy for 22 years. He was a captain, had a lot of friends in the department. He had a business degree. He knew how to manage people. People liked him.</p></dd><dl class="css-1jysr6y"><dt class="css-safvus">horace munn</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">It was not really just about having the first Black Sheriff. Prentis is an outgoing person, a nice person. When it comes to carrying out his duties to serve, he worked in the White communities, as well as the Black communities. When you looked at those who were running, he was the most qualified.</p></dd></dl><dt class="css-safvus">zoe chace</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Prentis Benston was also a Democrat, which may be sounds like a disadvantage in a conservative rural southern county, but at the local level, Bladen County back then was almost all Democrats. Plenty of people would vote for Republican candidates for president, but local elections in Bladen, they were all decided in the Democratic primary pretty much.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">When I was in Bladen, one thing I kept hearing about that time was the real split in the county was between the Democrats who did not want to change the system and the Democrats who did, the good old boy system, which everyone talks about down here. And basically, it boils down to white favoritism, sort of two parts letting things slide, one part hooking people up — a job, contract, an off the books approval, stuff like that. But Horace was betting that some white people in Bladen, maybe just enough, were feeling like the good old boy system was not working great for them, like they weren’t benefiting. They weren’t getting the favors or the passes. And a couple of the people it wasn’t working for were other Sheriff’s deputies — white guys who knew Prentis and ended up throwing themselves into the campaign. One became his campaign manager. They tell other skeptical white people Prentis Benston is fair. He’s not a good old boy, obviously. And don’t worry, he’s not just going to start favoring the Black people. He’s just straight ahead, same rules for everyone. Wouldn’t that be a nice change?</p></dd><dt class="css-safvus">[music]</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd"></p><p class="css-8hvvyd">So, in the primary for Sheriff, there were five people running. The leading candidate was this white deputy named Eric Bryan. By all accounts, Eric Bryan was funny. He was a tease, popular. The outgoing Sheriff endorsed him. I think it’s fair to say that most people in the county pretty much just assumed that Eric Bryan would win. And Eric Bryan did win the primary, but not by enough. He didn’t get enough votes to clinch it. By law, there had to be a runoff election between the two highest vote getters. And the second highest vote getter was Prentis Benston. That’s where things get super intense in Bladen County. Horace was like, oh, we could actually win. We got so close. This could really happen. We got to get people to vote in the runoff. But getting people to vote in a runoff election is hard. Turnout usually goes down in a runoff. And Horace had a big problem.</p></dd><dl class="css-1jysr6y"><dt class="css-safvus">horace munn</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">When it came to the runoff, you only had one polling site. That was in Elizabethtown.</p></dd></dl><dt class="css-safvus">zoe chace</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Elizabethtown is in the center of the county. Horace’s hometown, East Arcadia, is a smooth half-hour drive south. The whole southern part of the county is primarily Black. It’s a lot of gas to Elizabethtown and back. And in a poor spread out rural county, that can be a real factor in whether people will cast a vote. This was a big deal.</p></dd><dl class="css-1jysr6y"><dt class="css-safvus">horace munn</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">For us, it put us at a disadvantage because most of your minorities are in any outlying areas other than Elizabethtown. And the distance from here for someone to go to E-town and vote early is not going to happen. Whereas, for people in Dublin, Bladenboro, they’re close to Elizabethtown. And those are your majority white areas. So we had to figure out a strategy to level the playing field.</p></dd></dl><dt class="css-safvus">zoe chace</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">The way Horace tells it, the strategy hit him like a bolt of lightning. He loves to tell this story about his stroke of genius. It was the middle of the night. Horace has insomnia. He doesn’t sleep much.</p></dd><dl class="css-1jysr6y"><dt class="css-safvus">horace munn</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">This particular night, I was lying there. And about 3 o’clock, 3:30 in the morning, I called Prentis. Are you asleep? You asleep? I said, wake up. I figured it out. He said figured out what, Horace?</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">I said, we can win. He said, how? I said, absentee ballots.</p></dd></dl><dt class="css-safvus">zoe chace</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Absentee ballots as a get out the vote strategy. That was the idea. You’re familiar with this a-ha moment now, I think, here in 2021. The entire Democratic Party was struck by this exact same idea when the pandemic hit to deal with a possible low turnout, because COVID, crank up the number of votes by absentee ballot. But 10 years ago in North Carolina, absentee voting wasn’t that common. So Horace had this new idea. He was amped. His dad had been a big part of the Bladen Improvement PAC. And after Horace retired from the army and came home, he and his dad talked politics a lot — strategy. And now, the year of the Sheriff’s race, Horace was the brand new president of the PAC. And he mobilized the group around his absentee ballot idea like it was some kind of military opp. It was going to be a whole different thing.</p></dd><dl class="css-1jysr6y"><dt class="css-safvus">horace munn</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">In order to do absentee ballots, we had never done it before as an organization. So it’s a new adventure. So I actually got a copy of the law, governing how to complete an absentee ballot the legal way. And I took all the information, I studied it. And then at my next scheduled meeting of the Bladen Improvement, I gave a class. And at first, there were some that were questioning it, saying, oh, you have to be sick or out of town. I said, that’s not so. That’s not the law.</p></dd></dl><dt class="css-safvus">zoe chace</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Horace is a big fan of rules, of the statutes, which, when it comes to absentee ballots, can be extensive. His time in the military makes him a little straight-backed. He also has this thing where he’s always watching out for people trying to trip him up. He told me that once in the army, an officer was ordering weapons parts for himself illegally and tried to get Horace to look the other way, expecting him to go along to get along. Horace is not into that. He’s cautious and he’s suspicious, because he knows people are suspicious of him.</p></dd><dl class="css-1jysr6y"><dt class="css-safvus">horace munn</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">I dot every I, and I cross every T. I cannot stand someone having something that they can use to hurt me or control me. No one can control me. That’s why I operate in accordance with the statutes with this Board of Election stuff. Any time I involve myself in something, I read the regulations first.</p></dd></dl><dt class="css-safvus">zoe chace</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Horace had to contend with a lot of suspicion. First of all, suspicion from Black voters. They weren’t used to the whole absentee ballot process. So the PAC hired workers from Black areas to fan out across the county and knock on the doors in their own neighborhoods, driving through all the spread out parts, across big tobacco and sunflower fields.</p></dd><dl class="css-1jysr6y"><dt class="css-safvus">horace munn</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Certain areas that we felt that were critical to the election, that’s where we would train the people and sent them back into their hometowns.</p></dd></dl><dt class="css-safvus">zoe chace</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Then Horace had to contend with the suspicion of the County Board of Elections members. He figured they’d raise their eyebrows at a whole bunch of new absentee ballot requests coming in from anywhere, but especially his PAC. At the same time, Horace was also deeply suspicious of them. He believed the board members were part of the good old boy system, and he took it on faith that they’d be trying to help the other side, Eric Bryan, white candidate. And that if the Board of Elections people figured out what Horace and the PAC were doing with absentee ballots, using them as a get out the vote strategy, they’d mess with them or tip off the opposition.</p></dd><dl class="css-1jysr6y"><dt class="css-safvus">horace munn</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">I told the members to keep it low key, that we wanted to operate under the radar. And that when they figured out what’s going on, it will be too late to react. That’s what happened.</p></dd></dl><dt class="css-safvus">zoe chace</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">To keep it low key, Horace and Cogdell would drop off the absentee ballot request forms in small batches, a few at a time, from disparate parts of the county, so it’d take longer for the board to catch on that there was a thing. Eventually, of course, people did notice that the Bladen Improvement PAC was doing something. And apparently, that was news.</p></dd><dl class="css-1jysr6y"><dt class="css-safvus">archived recording</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">It’s called the Bladen County Improvement Association, and it’s been operating for at least 30 years. But who exactly runs this organization is a mystery to many residents.</p></dd></dl><dt class="css-safvus">zoe chace</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">This is a local TV news segment, pretty typical of local news coverage of the PAC around that time. It features close-ups of official looking documents. And then, cut to a guy in his dining room, talking to a TV reporter, with those documents artfully spread out on the table before him.</p></dd><dl class="css-1jysr6y"><dt class="css-safvus">archived recording (benny callahan)</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">They say they’re Bladen County Improvement Association. And if they are, I might would want to be a member. I want to improve Bladen County. I would like to see it grow and be beautiful. But I’ve never seen a park that they cleaned up, never seen any playground equipment — and I’m not saying they’ve not done this. But if they have, I don’t have any knowledge of it.</p></dd><dt class="css-safvus">archived recording</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Instead, the only thing resident Benny Callahan sees this group do is work to influence the outcome of the elections.</p></dd></dl><dt class="css-safvus">zoe chace</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">It’s a one-interview story with one random white guy in the county. Not the mayor, not a politician. He’s a literal rando. But now that I’ve talked to a lot of people in Bladen County, I do think his view actually did represent how lots of white conservatives were feeling about the Association.</p></dd><dl class="css-1jysr6y"><dt class="css-safvus">archived recording</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Benny Callahan thinks the group holds far too much sway and literally controls who gets elected through a group of hundreds of residents who vote exactly the way they’re told.</p></dd><dt class="css-safvus">archived recording (benny callahan)</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">They control our day-to-day lives. And they’re electing people that maybe I don’t want and maybe a lot of the people in Bladen County don’t want.</p></dd></dl><dt class="css-safvus">zoe chace</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">The TV story didn’t mention the Bladen Improvement is an all-Black political organization in a majority white county. But of course, that was the central dynamic of this election. Bladen had been living with the power of the PAC for years, and they did have a lot of influence. But using that to put the first Black guy in the Sheriff’s office brought a lot to the surface. Things got vicious inside the Sheriff’s department. Wanda Monroe, a Black Sheriff’s deputy who’s in the PAC, said she was used to getting along with everybody at work. But once her white colleagues realized that Eric Bryan, the white candidate, might lose and Prentis could win, things got bad.</p></dd><dl class="css-1jysr6y"><dt class="css-safvus">wanda monroe</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Caucasians that were for Eric did not mind making it known that they did not want to be ruled by a Black Sheriff, not in their lifetime. “Bladen County never had one, they don’t need one,” was some of the words that I had heard.</p></dd><dt class="css-safvus">zoe chace</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">So people, were they saying that out in the open? How were people making that known?</p></dd><dt class="css-safvus">wanda monroe</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Yeah, they are bold.</p></dd><dt class="css-safvus">zoe chace</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">So did people come up to you and say it to your face?</p></dd><dt class="css-safvus">wanda monroe</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Yes, because they were looking for a reaction because they wanted to know who I was endorsing.</p></dd></dl><dt class="css-safvus">zoe chace</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Prentis told me he started to worry for his safety. He declined an offer to go to the firing range with some white deputies at one point. He just didn’t trust people, he said. He started taking precautions, stopped eating at certain places. The reason so many people were agitated over this election is because we’re talking about the Sheriff’s office. It is hard to overstate the power a Sheriff’s office has in a place like this. In a rural county with tiny or nonexistent local police forces in the few towns that exist, the Sheriff is a sort of king, deciding what law enforcement looks like in the county, whose businesses are getting busted for bending the rules, whose kids are getting a verbal warning, whose kids are getting arrested. One time, I was sitting with Horace’s friend Cogdell there in his truck to get out of the cold, and we were talking about all the opposition to Prentis. And he brought up another aspect of the Sheriff’s power that I hadn’t even considered. A Sheriff is as close as you can get to omniscient in a rumory place like this one.</p></dd><dl class="css-1jysr6y"><dt class="css-safvus">cogdell</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">You’ve got to understand, when you get into certain positions, Zoe, here what you open up. It’s just like this. In my house, I’m the head of my house. When things happen in my house, it comes by me. When you’re in the leadership role, everything must come by you. All the knowledge and all the secrets and everything have to come by you. So at that point in time, ain’t no more secrets.</p></dd><dt class="css-safvus">zoe chace</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">So what’s that have to do with Prentis running for sheriff?</p></dd><dt class="css-safvus">cogdell</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Everything he had, they didn’t want him knowing everything that came through that system.</p></dd></dl><dt class="css-safvus">zoe chace</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">The Sheriff knows people’s business in the county, the human part, the embarrassing, or the tragic, as well as the criminal or the unethical. That kind of power is not something any Black person in Bladen County had ever had before, so far as I can tell.</p></dd><dl class="css-1jysr6y"><dt class="css-safvus">cogdell</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">If your child had committed the crime, if your child had some drug issues, if you were writing bad checks and they going all over the place, and you high and mighty. So who would know it? Prentis would have to know all of it.</p></dd></dl><dt class="css-safvus">zoe chace</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">The day of the runoff came. There were 17 polling places open. The PAC had workers at 16 of them. One was a church. They didn’t want electioneering on the property. Horace did what he does every Election Day. He started around 7:30 and drove around to all the polling places, checked in with the poll workers, dropped off their checks. The PAC poll workers are paid by the PAC a stipend for gas and food. He was probably asking everyone, have you seen a lot of minorities voting today? He does that. And then when he finished his rounds, he waited. Bladen County always gathers to watch election returns at the County Courthouse. And that night, it was packed and also silent as the results clicked in. Nearly every Black voter cast a vote for Prentis Benston, plus a few white voters. And Prentis Benston won by almost 300 votes. Horace’s strategy had worked. It was the absentee ballots that made the difference. Wanda Monroe, the Sheriff’s deputy who’s in the PAC, she remembers that night.</p></dd><dl class="css-1jysr6y"><dt class="css-safvus">wanda monroe</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">This is strictly opinion, you know that, right? But it was almost like they realized that we weren’t dumb. [LAUGHS] That we are living, breathing human beings with brains.</p></dd><dt class="css-safvus">zoe chace</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">That’s what it felt like?</p></dd><dt class="css-safvus">wanda monroe</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Yes. Like OK, they smart.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">They may be too smart for their own good. [LAUGHS]</p></dd></dl><dt class="css-safvus">[music]</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd"></p></dd><dt class="css-safvus">zoe chace</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">In the days following the election, Horace, who should have been celebrating up and down the county, was upset.</p></dd><dl class="css-1jysr6y"><dt class="css-safvus">horace munn</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">I felt like it was highway robbery. I felt they had done Prentis wrong. I was angry.</p></dd></dl><dt class="css-safvus">zoe chace</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Prentis’s victory was short-lived. Horace had a whole other problem on his hands. That’s after the break.</p></dd><dt class="css-safvus">[music]</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd"></p><p class="css-8hvvyd">Prentis Benston had won the runoff for the Democratic primary. He’d beat Eric Bryan. And throughout the race, the county government had been saying, whoever won the runoff would be the Sheriff. Because in Bladen County, the Democratic primary was the election when it came to the Sheriff’s race. A Republican challenger for Sheriff, if there even was one, had no chance. So Horace says that he’d been told, that everyone had been told, the primary winner would be appointed right away to serve through the general election.</p></dd><dl class="css-1jysr6y"><dt class="css-safvus">horace munn</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">But they were under the assumption that Eric Bryan was going to win. And he lost. And all of a sudden, I hear rumors that we’re going to bring somebody else in.</p></dd></dl><dt class="css-safvus">zoe chace</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">OK, real quick, what happened next is like a little play within a play farce of small town politics. But I’m going to tell you because it’s an illustration of how badly it seems people in power did not want Prentis Benston to take office. First, the county commission doesn’t see them. Instead, the commission votes on an interim Sheriff, this guy Earl Storms, to serve till December. He’s a former Sheriff from the ‘80s. But what the commissioners don’t all account for, apparently, is that Earl Storms is a Prentis Benston booster. He’d hired him back when. And so Earl Storms’s first move as Sheriff is to let go of Deputy Eric Bryan, the candidate Prentis Benston has just beat in the runoff, and also four other deputies who are Eric Bryan supporters. Poof. Suddenly, they were out of jobs. Interim Sheriff Storms reportedly posts a memo telling everyone, answer to Prentis Benston, not to me. Then the commission is like, this isn’t what we wanted to happen and tries to get rid of Earl Storms. It was like, who’s in charge? Everyone’s mad. There were big angry meetings covered by local news.</p></dd><dl class="css-1jysr6y"><dt class="css-safvus">archived recording</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">While commissioners appointed him to the job, it seems state law won’t allow the board to fire him. We can ask him to resign, but we can’t make him resign. We can’t do nothing with him. What was supposed to be calm has only spawned storms.</p></dd></dl><dt class="css-safvus">zoe chace</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">In the meantime, a petition surfaces to get a guy onto the ballot in time for the general election, a former highway patrolman, this white guy, Billy Ward, a Democrat who filed as an independent, who suddenly had a lot of muscle behind him. Finally, finally, it’s election night again, this time in November, after Horace and everyone else has cranked out a third get out the vote effort for the same election, the whole shadoo all over again. And now, everyone’s gathered in the courthouse.</p></dd><dl class="css-1jysr6y"><dt class="css-safvus">archived recording</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">I’m John Ruman. I’m at the courthouse in Elizabethtown in Bladen County. And pardon the pun, but there’s a new Sheriff in town in Bladen County. And it’s Prentis Benston. Congratulations tonight. How does this sound, Sheriff Prentis Benston?</p></dd><dt class="css-safvus">archived recording (prentis benston)</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">That sounds good. Certainly, John, it’s a great day, a great night for Bladen County, for me.</p></dd><dt class="css-safvus">horace munn</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Did you know that when Prentis actually won, I stayed home?</p></dd><dt class="css-safvus">zoe chace</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">On the night of the general?</p></dd><dt class="css-safvus">horace munn</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Yes.</p></dd><dt class="css-safvus">zoe chace</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Why?</p></dd><dt class="css-safvus">horace munn</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">I stayed home.</p></dd></dl><dt class="css-safvus">zoe chace</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Horace gets a little starry-eyed when he talks about the victory.</p></dd><dl class="css-1jysr6y"><dt class="css-safvus">horace munn</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">I don’t think — I would have gotten so emotional if he lost. So I stayed home. Yeah.</p></dd><dt class="css-safvus">zoe chace</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">So what happened when Prentis called you that night?</p></dd><dt class="css-safvus">horace munn</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Oh, I was ecstatic. Oh, I remember it. It’s like yesterday.</p></dd><dt class="css-safvus">zoe chace</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">What happened?</p></dd><dt class="css-safvus">horace munn</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Oh, I was jumping for joy. Unbelievable. Dream come true. Hard work that paid off. I think the next day, I slept. And I think — I said, you know what? I’m so excited, I went and bought me a new car. [LAUGHS]</p></dd><dt class="css-safvus">zoe chace</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Are you serious?</p></dd><dt class="css-safvus">horace munn</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Yes. That’s my brother’s SUV I’m driving.</p></dd><dt class="css-safvus">zoe chace</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">The which that you’re driving?</p></dd><dt class="css-safvus">horace munn</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">The SUV.</p></dd><dt class="css-safvus">zoe chace</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Oh, yeah.</p></dd><dt class="css-safvus">horace munn</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Yeah, I bought that car after the election. Sure did.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">Yeah, I remember.</p></dd></dl><dt class="css-safvus">zoe chace</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Winning is so sweet, but this victory is not the point of the story. It’s not why Horace is telling it to me. The whole point of Horace’s story is what happened next. After the first Black Sheriff in Bladen County was elected with the help of a slew of absentee votes, the point of the story is this. Horace got a visit from a local guy, a guy who worked during the Sheriff’s race for Prentis’s opponent. This man came to see Horace after the race was over, shook his hand, was like, good game. It was McCrae Dowless.</p></dd><dl class="css-1jysr6y"><dt class="css-safvus">horace munn</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">It was McCrae. McCrae, once the election was over, he say, Horace, you got me. He wasn’t a sore loser. We talked about it. And he actually befriended us and started hanging around.</p></dd><dt class="css-safvus">zoe chace</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">How so?</p></dd><dt class="css-safvus">horace munn</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">At the time, he was a Democrat.</p></dd><dt class="css-safvus">zoe chace</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Right.</p></dd><dt class="css-safvus">horace munn</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">So he dealt with us through the Democrat Party. So he befriended us and hung around long enough to learn a little bit, how we were doing what we’re doing. It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to do it. But he kind of hung around a little bit.</p></dd><dt class="css-safvus">zoe chace</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">But like, what does hang around mean?</p></dd><dt class="css-safvus">horace munn</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Come to the Democratic meetings and talk about — congratulate sometimes our success with the absentee ballots and stuff like that.</p></dd></dl><dt class="css-safvus">zoe chace</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Horace and McCrae shared an obsession with Bladen County politics, which I, too, now share. They talked on the phone a lot. They talked about the absentee ballot, get out the vote strategy, how exactly it worked. They were on the same side for a little while. But then, just four years later, as more and more people in Bladen County were starting to vote Republican in local elections, a viable Republican candidate ran for Sheriff. That Republican campaign for Sheriff ended up working with McCrae Dowless to get out the vote. And how did McCrae get out the vote? He ran an absentee ballot get out the vote program very much like the one the PAC had run four years earlier to get Prentis elected. McCrae’s involvement is spelled out in court documents, including an affidavit from McCrae. Lots of absentee ballots poured in that year, but Prentis lost. Prentis’s Sherriff’s term was the shortest in more than 80 years.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">The way Horace sees it, the 2010 Sheriff’s race in Bladen County began an escalating absentee ballot war between the PAC and McCrae Dowless that culminated spectacularly in the 2018 congressional scandal, where Bladen County became famous for alleged election cheating.</p></dd><dl class="css-1jysr6y"><dt class="css-safvus">horace munn</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">So basically what happened was, McCrae decided to take our strategy and use it against us. We will operate within the law. He was operating outside of the law.</p></dd></dl><dt class="css-safvus">zoe chace</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">That’s Horace’s story of how the fraud started here as a white reaction to Black voters putting a Black man in charge. But of course, that’s not how everyone in Bladen County sees it. I’d venture to say not even how most people in Bladen County see it.</p></dd><dl class="css-1jysr6y"><dt class="css-safvus">speaker</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">I don’t know who trained who. [LAUGHS] But if you think Horace Munn is less guilty than McCrae Dowless, you’re smoking some strange stuff. [LAUGHS]</p></dd></dl><dt class="css-safvus">zoe chace</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">That’s next time on the Improvement Association.</p></dd><dt class="css-safvus">[music]</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd"></p><p class="css-8hvvyd">The Improvement Association is produced by Nancy Updike and me. Neil Drumming is our managing editor. Julie Snyder is the executive editor. Additional editing by Sarah Koenig and Ira Glass. R.L. Nave is our editorial consultant. Fact-checking and research by Ben Phelan. Music supervision and mixing by Phoebe Wang. Amy Pedulla is our associate producer. Ndeye Thioubou is the supervising producer. Original music composed by Kwame Brandt-Pierce. Additional support from the staff at This American Life, including Emanuele Berry, Julie Whitaker, Cassie Howley, Seth Lind and Frances Swanson. At The New York Times, Sam Dolnick, Lauren Jackson, Elizabeth Davis-Moore, Alena Cerro and Nora Keller. Special thanks to Tim Tyson, Michael Bitzer, Hakeem Brown, Joe Bruno, Dr. Niambi Carter, Al Daniels, Herman Dunn, Mark Elias, Steve Lasseigne, Jens Loots, Eric Ostermeier, Kenny Simmons, and Zach St. Louis. The Improvement Association is produced by Serial Productions and The New York Times. [MUSIC]</p></dd></dl></div></div></div></div><script type="application/ld+json">{"@context":"https://schema.org","@type":"AudioObject","@id":"https://nyt.simplecastaudio.com/d7b66137-c66c-4a78-a832-79703f55da09/episodes/fbc5762e-acfd-438b-b027-858139a7d70f/audio/128/default.mp3?awCollectionId=d7b66137-c66c-4a78-a832-79703f55da09&awEpisodeId=fbc5762e-acfd-438b-b027-858139a7d70f","description":"Who’s been cheating in Bladen County?","name":"Listen to Chapter One.","contentUrl":"https://nyt.simplecastaudio.com/d7b66137-c66c-4a78-a832-79703f55da09/episodes/fbc5762e-acfd-438b-b027-858139a7d70f/audio/128/default.mp3?awCollectionId=d7b66137-c66c-4a78-a832-79703f55da09&awEpisodeId=fbc5762e-acfd-438b-b027-858139a7d70f","uploadDate":"2021-04-07T21:45:39.000Z","duration":"PT2.77S"}</script></div></div></figure></div><div data-testid="Dropzone-2"></div><div class="css-s99gbd StoryBodyCompanionColumn" data-testid="companionColumn-1"><div class="css-53u6y8"><p class="css-at9mc1 evys1bk0">During a <a class="css-yywogo" href="https://www.nytimes.com/2019/07/30/us/mccrae-dowless-indictment.html" title="">hearing that followed</a> the notorious case of election fraud in Bladen County, the Bladen Improvement PAC was mentioned and dragged into the scandal. Later, Horace Munn, one of the PAC’s leaders, reached out to Zoe with an invitation to come down to North Carolina and hear what’s behind all these cheating allegations.</p></div><aside class="css-ew4tgv" aria-label="companion column"></aside></div><div data-testid="ImageBlock-4"><div data-testid="imageblock-wrapper"><figure class="img-sz-medium css-d754w4 e1g7ppur0" aria-label="media" role="group"><div class="css-1xdhyk6 erfvjey0" data-testid="photoviewer-children-figure"><span class="css-1ly73wi e1tej78p0">Image</span><picture><source media="(max-width: 599px) and (min-device-pixel-ratio: 3),(max-width: 599px) and (min-resolution: 3dppx),(max-width: 599px) and (min-resolution: 288dpi)" srcSet="https://static01.nyt.com/images/2021/04/07/podcasts/tia-scene-5/tia-scene-5-mobileMasterAt3x.jpg?quality=75&amp;auto=webp&amp;disable=upscale&amp;width=1800"/><source media="(max-width: 599px) and (min-device-pixel-ratio: 2),(max-width: 599px) and (min-resolution: 2dppx),(max-width: 599px) and (min-resolution: 192dpi)" srcSet="https://static01.nyt.com/images/2021/04/07/podcasts/tia-scene-5/tia-scene-5-mobileMasterAt3x.jpg?quality=75&amp;auto=webp&amp;disable=upscale&amp;width=1200"/><source media="(max-width: 599px) and (min-device-pixel-ratio: 1),(max-width: 599px) and (min-resolution: 1dppx),(max-width: 599px) and (min-resolution: 96dpi)" srcSet="https://static01.nyt.com/images/2021/04/07/podcasts/tia-scene-5/tia-scene-5-mobileMasterAt3x.jpg?quality=75&amp;auto=webp&amp;disable=upscale&amp;width=600"/><img alt="" class="css-r3fift" src="https://static01.nyt.com/images/2021/04/07/podcasts/tia-scene-5/tia-scene-5-articleLarge.jpg?quality=75&amp;auto=webp&amp;disable=upscale" srcSet="https://static01.nyt.com/images/2021/04/07/podcasts/tia-scene-5/tia-scene-5-articleLarge.jpg?quality=75&amp;auto=webp 600w,https://static01.nyt.com/images/2021/04/07/podcasts/tia-scene-5/tia-scene-5-jumbo.jpg?quality=75&amp;auto=webp 1024w,https://static01.nyt.com/images/2021/04/07/podcasts/tia-scene-5/tia-scene-5-superJumbo.jpg?quality=75&amp;auto=webp 2048w" sizes="((min-width: 600px) and (max-width: 1004px)) 84vw, (min-width: 1005px) 60vw, 100vw" uri="nyt://image/04ebb07f-9df1-5902-a077-af4cc05827ab" decoding="async" width="600" height="480"/></picture></div><figcaption data-testid="photoviewer-children-caption" class="css-gbc9ki ewdxa0s0"><span class="css-jevhma e13ogyst0">A tree in the water at Jones Lake State Park in Bladen County, N.C.</span><span class="css-14fe1uy e1z0qqy90"><span class="css-1ly73wi e1tej78p0">Credit...</span><span><span aria-hidden="false">Jeremy M. Lange for The New York Times</span></span></span></figcaption></figure></div></div><div data-testid="Optimistic-5"><div class="css-1336jj"><div class="css-121kum4"><div class="css-171quhb"></div><div class="css-asuuk5"><noscript><div class="css-7axq9l" data-testid="optimistic-truncator-noscript"><svg width="24" height="24" viewBox="0 0 24 24" aria-hidden="true" class="css-1b5b8u1"><path fill="currentColor" fill-rule="evenodd" d="M2.5 12a9.5 9.5 0 1 1 19 0 9.5 9.5 0 0 1-19 0Zm8.5 1.75v-7.5h2v7.5h-2Zm0 2v2h2v-2h-2Z" clip-rule="evenodd"></path></svg><div data-testid="optimistic-truncator-noscript-message" class="css-6yo1no"><p class="css-3kpklk">We are having trouble retrieving the article content.</p><p class="css-3kpklk">Please enable JavaScript in your browser settings.</p></div></div></noscript><div class="css-1dv1kvn" id="optimistic-truncator-a11y" tabindex="-1"><hr/><p>Thank you for your patience while we verify access. 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In this five-part audio series, join the reporter Zoe Chace as she travels to Bladen County, N.C., to investigate the power of election fraud allegations — even when they’re not substantiated."}],"textAlign":"LEFT"},{"__typename":"ParagraphBlock","content":[{"__typename":"TextInline","formats":[],"text":"A few years ago, Bladen County, N.C., made national headlines. In 2018, Mark Harris, a Republican, beat out his Democratic opponent for a congressional seat, but the "},{"__typename":"TextInline","formats":[{"__typename":"LinkFormat","title":"","uri":null,"url":"https:\u002F\u002Fwww.nytimes.com\u002F2019\u002F02\u002F21\u002Fus\u002Fmark-harris-nc-voter-fraud.html"}],"text":"election was later thrown out"},{"__typename":"TextInline","formats":[],"text":" and a new election was called after his campaign was investigated over suspicions of absentee-ballot fraud."}],"textAlign":"LEFT"},{"__typename":"Dropzone","adsDesktop":false,"adsDesktopHoldout":false,"adsHybrid":false,"adsMobile":false,"adsMobileHoldout":false,"bad":false,"index":0},{"__typename":"ParagraphBlock","content":[{"__typename":"TextInline","formats":[],"text":"But according to some local residents, the authorities got it all wrong. They say there’s a powerful group still at work in the county, tampering with elections, bullying voters and stealing votes — a Black advocacy group, the Bladen County Improvement Association PAC. These accusations have never been substantiated, but they persist."}],"textAlign":"LEFT"},{"__typename":"Dropzone","adsDesktop":false,"adsDesktopHoldout":false,"adsHybrid":false,"adsMobile":false,"adsMobileHoldout":false,"bad":false,"index":1},{"__typename":"ParagraphBlock","content":[{"__typename":"TextInline","formats":[],"text":"Join Zoe Chace as she travels to Bladen County to find out what’s behind all this suspicion. Who exactly is making the accusations? And in small-town politics, where rumors and allegations abound, how can you be sure who is telling the truth?"}],"textAlign":"LEFT"},{"__typename":"Dropzone","adsDesktop":false,"adsDesktopHoldout":false,"adsHybrid":false,"adsMobile":false,"adsMobileHoldout":true,"bad":false,"index":2},{"__typename":"Heading2Block","content":[{"__typename":"TextInline","formats":[],"text":"Chapter 1: ‘The Big Shadoo’"}],"textAlign":"LEFT"},{"__typename":"AudioBlock","media":{"__typename":"Audio","audioTranscript":{"__typename":"AudioTranscript","transcriptFragment":[{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING^","text":"From Serial Productions and The New York Times, this is The Improvement Association.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":6.17,"start":0}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Prologue, \"Other People's Ballots.\"","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":9.105,"start":6.17}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"[MUSIC]","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":12.67,"start":9.105}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"There is one glaring example --","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":14.77,"start":12.67}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"one -- of an election fraud case that Republicans and Democrats agree happened.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":21.84,"start":14.77}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"It was 2018 in North Carolina, the only time in recent history --","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":26.59,"start":21.84}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"recent like the last 80 years --","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":28.78,"start":26.59}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"that a congressional election was thrown out for fraud.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":32.65,"start":28.78}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Democrats like to talk about this case because it was Republicans who did the cheating.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":37.15,"start":32.65}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Republicans like to talk about it without mentioning who did the cheating because it proves that election fraud does happen, which it does.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":45.31,"start":37.15}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Not very often, but it does.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":47.59,"start":45.31}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"I like to talk about this case because of how personal the whole thing was, how rooted in this one county.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":54.4,"start":47.59}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"It wasn't the result of some complex, national conspiracy to rig voting machines.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":59.47,"start":54.4}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"It was individual people in a tight-knit place, using their relationships to either make money or take revenge or both.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":68.25,"start":59.47}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"It looks like this.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":69.96,"start":68.25}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"In the midterm election of 2018, this guy, Mark Harris, white, Republican, former Baptist pastor, ran for Congress in North Carolina.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":80.34,"start":69.96}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"It seemed at first like he definitely won.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":82.95,"start":80.34}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"He beat the Democrat by 905 votes.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":86.82,"start":82.95}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"But in one of the counties in his district, Bladen County, the number of absentee ballots was suspiciously high, way out of whack with the rest of the district.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":98.06,"start":86.82}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Before the election was even over, wild complaints from voters were pouring in.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":103.58,"start":98.06}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"People said their absentee ballots had been taken from their homes, and then their ballots had never made it into the Board of Elections to be counted, or that they handed their blank ballots to others to be filled out, or that their signatures were forged.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":117.56,"start":103.58}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"The State Board of Elections held a big hearing to figure out what was going on.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":122.24,"start":117.56}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"That's when I clicked into it because I know Bladen County.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":126.02,"start":122.24}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Two years earlier, I had done a radio story on a small election scandal in this exact same place.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":133.31,"start":126.02}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Ever since, I'd had a Google alert on the guy at the center of both cases, McCrae Dowless.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":139.52,"start":133.31}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"This quiet white guy in a windbreaker, smoking a cigarette, a real operator, an elections pro, who seemed to specialize in getting out the vote via absentee ballot.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":150.62,"start":139.52}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Now here he was, turning up again at this big state hearing about cheating.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":154.57,"start":150.62}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING^","text":"I think we're ready to start, and I think we'll start --","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":157.82,"start":154.57}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"To me, the hearing was riveting because of the testimony.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":162.21,"start":157.82}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Now McCrae is basically an elections professional, who loves politics, but the people who worked for him who took the stand and testified, they were not like that.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":171.89,"start":162.21}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"This was a job they did for a few weeks or a few months, for a little extra money.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":176.78,"start":171.89}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"And they all seemed kind of dazed and upset that this side gig had landed them here, facing a long table of lawyers.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":183.217,"start":176.78}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING^","text":"Thank you.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":184.55,"start":183.217}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"One young woman, named Kelly Hendricks, with a baby face, looked so nervous when she took the stand.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":191.09,"start":184.55}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"I saw her take this deep breath and carefully exhale before she began talking.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":196.67,"start":191.09}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"The state investigator asked her if she worked for McCrae Dowless in the 2018 election.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":201.415,"start":196.67}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING (KELLY HENDRICKS)^","text":"Yes, ma'am.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":203.54,"start":201.415}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"And at the very next question --","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":206.14,"start":203.54}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING^","text":"And could you tell the board how you first met Mr. McCrae Dowless?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":210.47,"start":206.14}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"-- Kelly's face crumpled up just like a kid, and she started to cry.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":216.02,"start":210.47}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"It was hard to watch.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":217.8,"start":216.02}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"She grabbed a tissue and tried to talk through it.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":220.82,"start":217.8}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"She said she'd been working at Hardee's, and McCrae came through the drive-thru.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":224.93,"start":220.82}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"That's how they first met.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":226.4,"start":224.93}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING (KELLY HENDRICKS)^","text":"And just from there, he resembled my dad so much that I just --","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":239.66,"start":226.4}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING (KELLY HENDRICKS)^","text":"I connected with him.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":241.04,"start":239.66}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING (KELLY HENDRICKS)^","text":"I mean, from there, that's how I met him.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":245.9,"start":241.04}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Kelly ended up working get out the vote for McCrae.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":248.87,"start":245.9}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"She offered absentee request forms to family members, her boyfriend's family, a Hardy's customer.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":255.05,"start":248.87}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"She said she'd picked up absentee ballots, which is illegal in North Carolina, and that she'd brought the ballots back to McCrae, instead of to the Board of Elections.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":264.44,"start":255.05}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Sometimes, she said, he asked her to sign as a witness on absentee ballots she had not actually witnessed when they were being filled out.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":272.63,"start":264.44}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"So much of the testimony was emotional.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":276.89,"start":272.63}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"You got this real sense of betrayal.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":279.23,"start":276.89}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"McCrae's whole Get Out the Vote operation seemed to lean heavily on people who were close to him.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":284.72,"start":279.23}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"One of McCrae's workers was a stepdaughter.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":286.97,"start":284.72}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Another was his ex-wife, the stepdaughter's mom.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":290.54,"start":286.97}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"When Lisa Britt, the stepdaughter, took the stand for most of the day, she looked miserable, like her head was almost too heavy for her hand to hold up.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":300.17,"start":290.54}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"She testified that she'd taken ballots from people's homes --","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":304.22,"start":300.17}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"again, illegal in North Carolina.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":307.1,"start":304.22}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"And she'd filled ballots out for voters after the fact --","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":310.89,"start":307.1}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"illegal everywhere in the United States of America.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":314.15,"start":310.89}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING^","text":"So you were filling in the ovals and voting for other people, right?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":318.707,"start":314.15}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING (LISA BRITT)^","text":"Yes, sir.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":320.54,"start":318.707}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING^","text":"You were voting other people's ballots?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":321.77,"start":320.54}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING (LISA BRITT)^","text":"Yes, sir.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":322.605,"start":321.77}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING^","text":"All right.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":323.02,"start":322.605}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING^","text":"I assume you knew that it was not legal to vote other people's ballots.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":326.88,"start":323.02}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING (LISA BRITT)^","text":"Right.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":327.23,"start":326.88}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING (LISA BRITT)^","text":"We were doing what we were paid to do.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":328.813,"start":327.23}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING^","text":"I understand, but you were paid to do something that you knew was wrong.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":333.767,"start":328.813}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING (LISA BRITT)^","text":"Yes, sir.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":335.6,"start":333.767}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Why didn't you ask any questions about what McCrae was asking you to do, the lawyer started to say at one point.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":342.38,"start":335.6}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"And Lisa snapped at him.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":345.838,"start":342.38}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING (LISA BRITT)^","text":"Mr. Dowless has been a father figure to me for 30 years.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":349.63,"start":345.838}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING (LISA BRITT)^","text":"So, no, there's a lot of things that you kind of would place trust in, in someone that's your father that's not going to put you out here to do something illegal, I mean.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":358.97,"start":349.63}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"McCrae didn't take the stand.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":364.1,"start":362.09}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"He also declined very politely my interview requests.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":368.12,"start":364.1}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"At the end of four days of hearings, Mark Harris, the Republican candidate McCrae was working for, announced he was stepping aside, and he himself called for a new election.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":378,"start":368.12}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"The state of North Carolina agreed and set a date for a special election.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":381.47,"start":378}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"The whole scene made me sad.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":386.21,"start":384.05}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"It felt very human-sized.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":388.64,"start":386.21}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Meeting up at the Hardee's drive-thru?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":391.85,"start":388.64}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"McCrae Dowless was indicted on 13 counts, including perjury, obstruction.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":397.31,"start":391.85}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"He has yet to plead.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":398.45,"start":397.31}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"OK, so you know how in TV shows, sometimes there's a minor character who later goes on to have a whole show built around them?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":414.27,"start":405.03}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"That character from this hearing is a man named Horace Munn.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":419,"start":414.27}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"During the hearing, Horace Munn made a tiny guest appearance.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":423.35,"start":419}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"McCrae's stepdaughter talked about him.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":425.72,"start":423.35}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"She said she'd seen this guy Horace in McCrae's office while the election was going on.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":430.82,"start":425.72}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"He'd been making copies of absentee ballot request forms for some reason, she said.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":435.77,"start":430.82}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"She believed he'd been coordinating with McCrae.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":439.16,"start":435.77}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Horace was in the audience while she was saying this, one of the only Black guys in the audience, it looked like.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":445.46,"start":439.16}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"At the request of the state board, she pointed him out.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":448.58,"start":445.46}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING^","text":"Can we get his name, please, for the record?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":452.272,"start":448.58}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING (LISA BRITT)^","text":"The gentleman's name is Horace Munn.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":455.235,"start":452.272}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING^","text":"Are you Mr. Munn?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":456.86,"start":455.235}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING (HORACE MUNN)^","text":"Yes, sir, I am.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":457.58,"start":456.86}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING^","text":"All right, thank you, sir.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":459.7,"start":457.58}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"When I saw Horace pop up in the hearing, I was like, what the hell?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":463.69,"start":459.7}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Because I knew Horace.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":465.13,"start":463.69}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"He was part of that story I did a few years earlier in Bladen County.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":469.15,"start":465.13}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"I knew he was the head of the political arm of a black Democratic organization in Bladen called the Bladen County Improvement Association.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":477.49,"start":469.15}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"And I knew Horace and McCrae were huge political rivals.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":480.91,"start":477.49}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"I knew they couldn't stand each other.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":483.43,"start":480.91}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Watching this hearing, Horace's name only came up a bit, but the name of his organization was invoked a lot.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":490.99,"start":483.43}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"It was weird every time.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":493.12,"start":490.99}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"People were claiming that the Bladen County Improvement Association had been working with McCrae and that they must be cheaters, too.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":500.41,"start":493.12}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"But why would a Democratic organization be conspiring with a Republican operator on absentee ballot fraud to benefit the Republican candidate?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":509.42,"start":500.41}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"The Bladen Improvement Group wasn't the focus of this hearing.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":512.36,"start":509.42}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"This was about the fraud McCrae's team had allegedly perpetrated for the Republicans.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":517.28,"start":512.36}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"And yet, in the closing remarks for the hearing, it seemed the state board had somehow landed on a both sides conclusion.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":525.11,"start":517.28}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING^","text":"And I just wanted to say to the North Carolina voters that this board of election will work and continue to work until the activities of individuals such as McCrae Dowless and organizations such as the Bladen County Improvement Association no longer create any confusion","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":540.14,"start":525.11}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING^","text":"and chaos in our elections.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":542.69,"start":540.14}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING^","text":"Thank you, sir.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":545.06,"start":542.69}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Not long after this all happened, I got a call in the middle of the night.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":549.752,"start":545.06}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING (HORACE MUNN)^","text":"Hello, Ms. Chace.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":551.96,"start":549.752}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING (HORACE MUNN)^","text":"This is Horace, the person you talked to a couple of years ago.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":555.98,"start":551.96}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"It was Horace Munn, head of Bladen Improvement.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":559.19,"start":555.98}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"He had something he wanted to explain to me about that hearing.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":563.24,"start":559.19}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"He wanted to explain the entire world it had come from.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":567.44,"start":563.24}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"He texted, \"Hi.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":569.45,"start":567.44}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Just thinking and wanted to know if you would consider doing an article about the South and Bladen County.\"","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":577.64,"start":569.45}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"I did consider it.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":579.8,"start":577.64}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"From Serial Productions, I'm Zoe Chace, and this is The Improvement Association, a true story about election fraud.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":587.733,"start":579.8}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[MUSIC]","text":"","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":592.17,"start":587.733}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[MUSIC]","text":"Chapter One, The Big Shadoo.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":615.99,"start":613.89}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[MUSIC]","text":"Bladen is a rural county in the southeastern part of North Carolina.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":625.26,"start":620.74}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[MUSIC]","text":"Beautiful, a lot of green open land when you drive through.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":629.05,"start":625.26}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[MUSIC]","text":"Some of it's farms, some tiny towns.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":632.29,"start":629.05}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[MUSIC]","text":"Often, when I want to talk to someone there, people don't tell me how to reach them, but where to find them.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":638.62,"start":632.29}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[MUSIC]","text":"Oh, Mike.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":639.34,"start":638.62}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[MUSIC]","text":"He's at the barber shop in Elizabethtown.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":641.87,"start":639.34}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[MUSIC]","text":"Oh, that guy.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":642.94,"start":641.87}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[MUSIC]","text":"He hangs out outside the hardware store.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":645.67,"start":642.94}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[MUSIC]","text":"There's bad cell service, not great internet.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":648.76,"start":645.67}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[MUSIC]","text":"People do a lot of business face-to-face.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":651.67,"start":648.76}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[MUSIC]","text":"And the election fights are like that, too, face-to-face --","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":655.18,"start":651.67}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[MUSIC]","text":"or hand-to-hand, really.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":658.09,"start":655.18}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[MUSIC]","text":"I'm going to tell you the story of how this place ended up becoming the only place in modern times that threw out a congressional election for fraud.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":667.84,"start":658.09}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[MUSIC]","text":"What led to that election is a series of elections, all of them on the ground gritty, like the place itself.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":674.47,"start":667.84}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[MUSIC]","text":"And what underlies all of it is the very oldest fight in Bladen County --","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":679.63,"start":674.47}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[MUSIC]","text":"the fight to control the Black vote.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":681.43,"start":679.63}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[MUSIC]","text":"The idea that some people cheat is something people here talk about all the time, that someone's getting over, someone's cutting corners, someone's breaking the rules, specifically, when it comes to elections.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":696.98,"start":684.35}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[MUSIC]","text":"When I first headed down here after the text from Horace, my questions were simple.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":702.2,"start":696.98}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[MUSIC]","text":"Was he in on some kind of conspiracy with McCrae?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":705.62,"start":702.2}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[MUSIC]","text":"And what did he want to tell me?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":707.36,"start":705.62}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[MUSIC]","text":"And I thought that's what I'd be talking about --","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":709.49,"start":707.36}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[MUSIC]","text":"election corruption or something --","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":712.07,"start":709.49}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[MUSIC]","text":"with this group of people Horace Munn told me I needed to meet.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":715.85,"start":712.07}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[MUSIC]","text":"He'd said, come down here.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":717.17,"start":715.85}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[MUSIC]","text":"I got two county commissioners, a former Board of Elections person, and a former sheriff, all ready to talk.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":723.92,"start":717.17}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[MUSIC]","text":"So I showed up in the tiny town hall of the tiny town of East Arcadia.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":728.57,"start":723.92}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^SPEAKER^","text":"That was in the late '80s, early '90s.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":730.875,"start":728.57}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Everyone was already talking when I got there.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":733.25,"start":730.875}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"They're all deep into local politics.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":734.96,"start":733.25}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"And listening to them is like when basketball fans talk about March Madness or something.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":740.542,"start":734.96}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"I don't know the teams.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":741.5,"start":740.542}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"I don't know the players.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":742.542,"start":741.5}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"The small talk is really hard for me to follow.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":744.92,"start":742.542}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^SPEAKER^","text":"And another person ran.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":746.54,"start":744.92}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ZOE CHACE^","text":"Which office was this?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":748.04,"start":746.54}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^SPEAKER^","text":"And that was the county commissioner.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":749.33,"start":748.04}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ZOE CHACE^","text":"OK.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":749.81,"start":749.33}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^SPEAKER^","text":"He ran for county commissioner.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":751.61,"start":749.81}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Almost everyone here is a member of Horace's organization, the full name of which is the Bladen County Improvement Association PAC.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":760.61,"start":751.61}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Members of the PAC generally just call it the PAC, even though it's not a PAC the way people usually think of a PAC.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":766.7,"start":760.61}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"It's not a sluice for dark money.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":768.32,"start":766.7}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"It doesn't bankroll TV commercials.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":771.14,"start":768.32}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"This is what it is --","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":772.43,"start":771.14}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"a local group that runs get out the vote campaigns during elections for and by Black people in Bladen County.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":779.24,"start":772.43}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"They endorse candidates.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":780.5,"start":779.24}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Sometimes they get money from candidates -- not every single time --","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":783.98,"start":780.5}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"and usually they get money from the state Democratic party.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":789.38,"start":783.98}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"The meeting is awkward at first.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":791.45,"start":789.38}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"I expected Horace to sort of take the lead here, but he's hanging back, sitting at the furthest corner of the table, quiet.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":799.79,"start":791.45}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Horace, kind of short, stocky, almost always with his trademark accessories of sunglasses and cap, even indoors.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":807.68,"start":799.79}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"I don't want you to see my eyes, he said once.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":810.2,"start":807.68}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"And I was like, but that makes it way harder for me to see how you're feeling.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":814.13,"start":810.2}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"That's the point, he told me.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":816.53,"start":814.13}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Horace is private.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":817.76,"start":816.53}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"He does not like to feel things in public.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":820.41,"start":817.76}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"He grew up here in this little town of East Arcadia.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":823.22,"start":820.41}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"He's retired now.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":824.42,"start":823.22}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"He was career army, but he's pretty involved in this town.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":827.87,"start":824.42}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"He's on the town council, has been for 10 years.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":830.64,"start":827.87}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"He's the volunteer fire chief.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":832.64,"start":830.64}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"During elections, he's running the Bladen County Improvement Association PAC.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":837.32,"start":832.64}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Anyway, I kept waiting for Horace or someone to haul off like, and here's what we want to tell you about the cheating, reporter.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":845.57,"start":837.32}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"But it's not happening.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":846.96,"start":845.57}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"So, finally, I'm like --","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":848.6,"start":846.96}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ZOE CHACE^","text":"Well, I'm happy to take you guys through the questions I have, but I also do want to say that when Horace and I spoke, he said that there were some things that some of you guys had on your mind that you wanted to discuss.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":861.05,"start":848.6}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ZOE CHACE^","text":"And a big part of the reason I came down here today for this meeting specifically was to find out what that is, hear what you're thinking about.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":871.07,"start":861.05}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Long pause, then a little more chatting, until, finally, Horace's friend, Cogdell, George Michael Cogdell --","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":885.68,"start":877.16}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"everyone calls him Cogdell --","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":887.54,"start":885.68}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"kind of takes over the meeting, as he's want to do.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":890.73,"start":887.54}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"He's been in the Bladen Improvement PAC even longer than Horace.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":894.26,"start":890.73}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Cogdell's an intense guy, a fast talker.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":895.927,"start":894.26}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^GEORGE MICHAEL COGDELL^","text":"I'm going to say this.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":897.927,"start":895.927}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^GEORGE MICHAEL COGDELL^","text":"And I may be wrong, but I'm going to say it.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":899.81,"start":897.927}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^GEORGE MICHAEL COGDELL^","text":"They've been trying to get rid of us ever since I've been associated with the PAC because it's very simple.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":906.95,"start":899.81}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^GEORGE MICHAEL COGDELL^","text":"If they don't endorse you, you can't win.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":909.89,"start":906.95}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"If they don't endorse you, actually meaning if we don't endorse you, we the Bladen Improvement PAC.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":916.34,"start":909.89}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"If the PAC doesn't endorse you, you can't win, Cogdell is saying.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":920.63,"start":916.34}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"For years, the PAC has been a powerful force in Bladen politics, because the pack reliably delivers votes, Black votes.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":927.95,"start":920.63}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Politicians, both white and Black, often court the PAC because their endorsement is so valuable.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":933.29,"start":927.95}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"It can swing elections.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":935.15,"start":933.29}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"That's why the Bladen Improvement PAC is coming under attack, Cogdell is saying, because we're too powerful.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":941.6,"start":935.15}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"The thing Cogdell and Horace want to tell me is this.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":944.96,"start":941.6}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Republicans have been cheating down here.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":947.63,"start":944.96}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"And each election, they get bolder.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":949.85,"start":947.63}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"And each time, Republicans and Bladen try to paint the PAC with the crimes that they themselves are committing.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":956.69,"start":949.85}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"This is how these guys see it.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":958.82,"start":956.69}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"That's what was going on in Raleigh, Horace says, during the state hearing about McCrae Dowless.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":964.85,"start":958.82}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Republicans bring up the PAC to distract from McCrae, he says.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":968.54,"start":964.85}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"It's a strategy.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":969.768,"start":968.54}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^GEORGE MICHAEL COGDELL^","text":"They were fully aware of what McCrae was doing.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":972.81,"start":969.768}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^GEORGE MICHAEL COGDELL^","text":"But what they would do to throw off from McCrae, they would always talk about the Bladen Improvement PAC doing illegal activities.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":980.697,"start":972.81}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^GEORGE MICHAEL COGDELL^","text":"They would keep the heat off of him by putting it on the Bladen Improvement PAC.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":984.03,"start":980.697}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^GEORGE MICHAEL COGDELL^","text":"And they're doing the same thing again.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":985.728,"start":984.03}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^GEORGE MICHAEL COGDELL^","text":"They made a big shadoo 'cause there was just so much publicity and they do nothing with it.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":989.52,"start":985.728}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"They made a big shadoo about McCrae because they had to, but what they really want to talk about is us, Cogdell is saying.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":996.03,"start":989.52}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"And he waves around his big mug of ice.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":998.91,"start":996.03}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"The hearing, Horace says, was just more of the same, except bigger, in order to bring the PAC down once and for all, in order to weaken its power or just kill it off.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1010.67,"start":998.91}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"But why, I'm asking him, and Horace interrupts.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1013.677,"start":1010.67}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^HORACE MUNN^","text":"Let me explain something to you, to go back to 2010.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1016.94,"start":1013.677}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Let me explain something to you, Horace says.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1020.06,"start":1016.94}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Let's go back to 2010.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1022.13,"start":1020.06}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"And this is where Horace really pipes up.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1024.95,"start":1022.13}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Horace leans across the table to tell me what he sees as the origin story of how that 2018 congressional race blew up, what's behind all of these election fraud allegations in Bladen, and what the Republicans have been up to for the last 10 years here.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1039.47,"start":1024.95}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"He wants to tell me what all that has to do with the PAC and with him.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1043.96,"start":1039.47}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"In 2010, the PAC fought to get Horace's friend, Prentis Benston, elected as the first Black Sheriff in Bladen County's history.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1052.66,"start":1043.96}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Horace had just become the president of the PAC, and he had this big plan.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1057.7,"start":1052.66}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^HORACE MUNN^","text":"I knew that it was going to be a hard campaign for him to win.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1061.6,"start":1057.7}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^HORACE MUNN^","text":"Knowing the breakdown of Bladen County, i.e., the racial breakdown, we knew it to be tough.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1074.08,"start":1064.33}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^HORACE MUNN^","text":"He couldn't win with just Black votes.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1075.93,"start":1074.08}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^HORACE MUNN^","text":"He had to have white votes.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1077.79,"start":1075.93}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Bladen County, around 35,000 people, is about 30% Black and 60% white.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1084.39,"start":1077.79}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"So usually, white people decided who was Sheriff.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1087.72,"start":1084.39}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Horace knew, as a rule, white people didn't vote for Black candidates in this county.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1093.18,"start":1087.72}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"So if you're running a Black candidate in a countywide race, trying to win a majority of the county, and the majority of the county is white, you'll definitely lose.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1102.81,"start":1093.18}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"But Horace thought Prentis Benston was different.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1106.18,"start":1102.81}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"He had a real chance to pick up some white voters.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1109.14,"start":1106.18}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"There was this feeling at the time, Horace says.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1112.59,"start":1109.14}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Obama had just been elected president.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1114.69,"start":1112.59}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"He'd won North Carolina.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1116.79,"start":1114.69}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Some white people would vote for a Black man to be in charge.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1120.27,"start":1116.79}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"And Prentis was a good candidate.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1122.07,"start":1120.27}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"He'd been a Sheriff's deputy for 22 years.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1124.41,"start":1122.07}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"He was a captain, had a lot of friends in the department.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1127.5,"start":1124.41}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"He had a business degree.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1128.76,"start":1127.5}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"He knew how to manage people.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1130.32,"start":1128.76}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"People liked him.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1131.43,"start":1130.32}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^HORACE MUNN^","text":"It was not really just about having the first Black Sheriff.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1136.31,"start":1131.43}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^HORACE MUNN^","text":"Prentis is an outgoing person, a nice person.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1141.49,"start":1136.31}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^HORACE MUNN^","text":"When it comes to carrying out his duties to serve, he worked in the White communities, as well as the Black communities.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1149.62,"start":1141.49}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^HORACE MUNN^","text":"When you looked at those who were running, he was the most qualified.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1152.98,"start":1149.62}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Prentis Benston was also a Democrat, which may be sounds like a disadvantage in a conservative rural southern county, but at the local level, Bladen County back then was almost all Democrats.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1166.6,"start":1152.98}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Plenty of people would vote for Republican candidates for president, but local elections in Bladen, they were all decided in the Democratic primary pretty much.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1176.05,"start":1166.6}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"When I was in Bladen, one thing I kept hearing about that time was the real split in the county was between the Democrats who did not want to change the system and the Democrats who did, the good old boy system, which everyone talks about down here.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1193.05,"start":1178.76}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"And basically, it boils down to white favoritism, sort of two parts letting things slide, one part hooking people up --","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1200.93,"start":1193.05}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"a job, contract, an off the books approval, stuff like that.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1206.39,"start":1200.93}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"But Horace was betting that some white people in Bladen, maybe just enough, were feeling like the good old boy system was not working great for them, like they weren't benefiting.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1216.34,"start":1206.39}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"They weren't getting the favors or the passes.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1219.19,"start":1216.34}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"And a couple of the people it wasn't working for were other Sheriff's deputies --","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1223.45,"start":1219.19}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"white guys who knew Prentis and ended up throwing themselves into the campaign.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1227.86,"start":1223.45}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"One became his campaign manager.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1230.26,"start":1227.86}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"They tell other skeptical white people Prentis Benston is fair.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1234.67,"start":1230.26}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"He's not a good old boy, obviously.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1237.4,"start":1234.67}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"And don't worry, he's not just going to start favoring the Black people.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1241.21,"start":1237.4}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"He's just straight ahead, same rules for everyone.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1245.08,"start":1241.21}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Wouldn't that be a nice change?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1247,"start":1245.08}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[MUSIC]","text":"","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1250.824,"start":1247}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[MUSIC]","text":"So, in the primary for Sheriff, there were five people running.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1258.7,"start":1254.66}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[MUSIC]","text":"The leading candidate was this white deputy named Eric Bryan.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1262.72,"start":1258.7}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[MUSIC]","text":"By all accounts, Eric Bryan was funny.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1265.06,"start":1262.72}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[MUSIC]","text":"He was a tease, popular.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1267.28,"start":1265.06}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[MUSIC]","text":"The outgoing Sheriff endorsed him.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1269.29,"start":1267.28}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[MUSIC]","text":"I think it's fair to say that most people in the county pretty much just assumed that Eric Bryan would win.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1275.59,"start":1269.29}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[MUSIC]","text":"And Eric Bryan did win the primary, but not by enough.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1280.24,"start":1275.59}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[MUSIC]","text":"He didn't get enough votes to clinch it.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1283.03,"start":1280.24}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[MUSIC]","text":"By law, there had to be a runoff election between the two highest vote getters.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1287.71,"start":1283.03}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[MUSIC]","text":"And the second highest vote getter was Prentis Benston.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1291.46,"start":1287.71}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[MUSIC]","text":"That's where things get super intense in Bladen County.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1294.86,"start":1291.46}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[MUSIC]","text":"Horace was like, oh, we could actually win.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1297.56,"start":1294.86}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[MUSIC]","text":"We got so close.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1298.67,"start":1297.56}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[MUSIC]","text":"This could really happen.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1300.11,"start":1298.67}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[MUSIC]","text":"We got to get people to vote in the runoff.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1302.66,"start":1300.11}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[MUSIC]","text":"But getting people to vote in a runoff election is hard.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1306.2,"start":1302.66}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[MUSIC]","text":"Turnout usually goes down in a runoff.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1308.75,"start":1306.2}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[MUSIC]","text":"And Horace had a big problem.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1310.76,"start":1308.75}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^HORACE MUNN^","text":"When it came to the runoff, you only had one polling site.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1316.2,"start":1310.76}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^HORACE MUNN^","text":"That was in Elizabethtown.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1317.52,"start":1316.2}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Elizabethtown is in the center of the county.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1320.43,"start":1317.52}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Horace's hometown, East Arcadia, is a smooth half-hour drive south.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1325.11,"start":1320.43}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"The whole southern part of the county is primarily Black.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1328.05,"start":1325.11}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"It's a lot of gas to Elizabethtown and back.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1330.75,"start":1328.05}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"And in a poor spread out rural county, that can be a real factor in whether people will cast a vote.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1337.12,"start":1330.75}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"This was a big deal.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1338.22,"start":1337.12}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^HORACE MUNN^","text":"For us, it put us at a disadvantage because most of your minorities are in any outlying areas other than Elizabethtown.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1346.37,"start":1338.22}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^HORACE MUNN^","text":"And the distance from here for someone to go to E-town and vote early is not going to happen.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1352.46,"start":1346.37}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^HORACE MUNN^","text":"Whereas, for people in Dublin, Bladenboro, they're close to Elizabethtown.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1356.03,"start":1352.46}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^HORACE MUNN^","text":"And those are your majority white areas.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1359.79,"start":1356.03}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^HORACE MUNN^","text":"So we had to figure out a strategy to level the playing field.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1363.62,"start":1359.79}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"The way Horace tells it, the strategy hit him like a bolt of lightning.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1367.68,"start":1363.62}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"He loves to tell this story about his stroke of genius.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1371.87,"start":1367.68}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"It was the middle of the night.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1373.37,"start":1371.87}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Horace has insomnia.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1374.245,"start":1373.37}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"He doesn't sleep much.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1376.61,"start":1374.245}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^HORACE MUNN^","text":"This particular night, I was lying there.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1380.15,"start":1376.61}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^HORACE MUNN^","text":"And about 3 o'clock, 3:30 in the morning, I called Prentis.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1384.151,"start":1380.15}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^HORACE MUNN^","text":"Are you asleep?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1384.776,"start":1384.151}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^HORACE MUNN^","text":"You asleep?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1386.03,"start":1384.776}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^HORACE MUNN^","text":"I said, wake up.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1387.68,"start":1386.03}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^HORACE MUNN^","text":"I figured it out.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1388.855,"start":1387.68}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^HORACE MUNN^","text":"He said figured out what, Horace?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1390.23,"start":1388.855}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^HORACE MUNN^","text":"I said, we can win.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1396.035,"start":1393.59}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^HORACE MUNN^","text":"He said, how?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1397.815,"start":1396.035}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^HORACE MUNN^","text":"I said, absentee ballots.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1400.09,"start":1397.815}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Absentee ballots as a get out the vote strategy.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1403.66,"start":1400.09}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"That was the idea.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1405.34,"start":1403.66}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"You're familiar with this a-ha moment now, I think, here in 2021.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1410.08,"start":1405.34}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"The entire Democratic Party was struck by this exact same idea when the pandemic hit to deal with a possible low turnout, because COVID, crank up the number of votes by absentee ballot.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1421.9,"start":1410.08}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"But 10 years ago in North Carolina, absentee voting wasn't that common.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1426.92,"start":1421.9}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"So Horace had this new idea.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1429.4,"start":1426.92}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"He was amped.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1430.87,"start":1429.4}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"His dad had been a big part of the Bladen Improvement PAC.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1433.87,"start":1430.87}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"And after Horace retired from the army and came home, he and his dad talked politics a lot --","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1439.48,"start":1433.87}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"strategy.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1441.29,"start":1439.48}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"And now, the year of the Sheriff's race, Horace was the brand new president of the PAC.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1446.11,"start":1441.29}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"And he mobilized the group around his absentee ballot idea like it was some kind of military opp.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1451.338,"start":1446.11}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"It was going to be a whole different thing.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1453.13,"start":1451.338}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^HORACE MUNN^","text":"In order to do absentee ballots, we had never done it before as an organization.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1459.02,"start":1453.13}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^HORACE MUNN^","text":"So it's a new adventure.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1460.51,"start":1459.02}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^HORACE MUNN^","text":"So I actually got a copy of the law, governing how to complete an absentee ballot the legal way.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1469.24,"start":1460.51}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^HORACE MUNN^","text":"And I took all the information, I studied it.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1472.18,"start":1469.24}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^HORACE MUNN^","text":"And then at my next scheduled meeting of the Bladen Improvement, I gave a class.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1478.21,"start":1472.18}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^HORACE MUNN^","text":"And at first, there were some that were questioning it, saying, oh, you have to be sick or out of town.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1482.663,"start":1478.21}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^HORACE MUNN^","text":"I said, that's not so.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1483.58,"start":1482.663}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^HORACE MUNN^","text":"That's not the law.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1485.2,"start":1483.58}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Horace is a big fan of rules, of the statutes, which, when it comes to absentee ballots, can be extensive.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1492.16,"start":1485.2}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"His time in the military makes him a little straight-backed.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1495.49,"start":1492.16}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"He also has this thing where he's always watching out for people trying to trip him up.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1500.14,"start":1495.49}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"He told me that once in the army, an officer was ordering weapons parts for himself illegally and tried to get Horace to look the other way, expecting him to go along to get along.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1510.55,"start":1500.14}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Horace is not into that.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1512.26,"start":1510.55}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"He's cautious and he's suspicious, because he knows people are suspicious of him.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1516.88,"start":1512.26}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^HORACE MUNN^","text":"I dot every I, and I cross every T. I cannot stand someone having something that they can use to hurt me or control me.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1527.33,"start":1516.88}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^HORACE MUNN^","text":"No one can control me.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1529.31,"start":1527.33}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^HORACE MUNN^","text":"That's why I operate in accordance with the statutes with this Board of Election stuff.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1535.16,"start":1529.31}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^HORACE MUNN^","text":"Any time I involve myself in something, I read the regulations first.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1538.83,"start":1535.16}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Horace had to contend with a lot of suspicion.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1541.98,"start":1538.83}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"First of all, suspicion from Black voters.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1544.6,"start":1541.98}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"They weren't used to the whole absentee ballot process.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1547.83,"start":1544.6}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"So the PAC hired workers from Black areas to fan out across the county and knock on the doors in their own neighborhoods, driving through all the spread out parts, across big tobacco and sunflower fields.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1559.78,"start":1547.83}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^HORACE MUNN^","text":"Certain areas that we felt that were critical to the election, that's where we would train the people and sent them back into their hometowns.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1567.63,"start":1559.78}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Then Horace had to contend with the suspicion of the County Board of Elections members.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1572.55,"start":1567.63}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"He figured they'd raise their eyebrows at a whole bunch of new absentee ballot requests coming in from anywhere, but especially his PAC.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1580.11,"start":1572.55}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"At the same time, Horace was also deeply suspicious of them.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1583.95,"start":1580.11}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"He believed the board members were part of the good old boy system, and he took it on faith that they'd be trying to help the other side, Eric Bryan, white candidate.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1591.96,"start":1583.95}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"And that if the Board of Elections people figured out what Horace and the PAC were doing with absentee ballots, using them as a get out the vote strategy, they'd mess with them or tip off the opposition.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1602.37,"start":1591.96}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^HORACE MUNN^","text":"I told the members to keep it low key, that we wanted to operate under the radar.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1609.18,"start":1602.37}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^HORACE MUNN^","text":"And that when they figured out what's going on, it will be too late to react.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1613.53,"start":1609.18}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^HORACE MUNN^","text":"That's what happened.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1615.09,"start":1613.53}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"To keep it low key, Horace and Cogdell would drop off the absentee ballot request forms in small batches, a few at a time, from disparate parts of the county, so it'd take longer for the board to catch on that there was a thing.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1628.71,"start":1615.09}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Eventually, of course, people did notice that the Bladen Improvement PAC was doing something.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1634.59,"start":1628.71}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"And apparently, that was news.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1636.57,"start":1634.59}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING^","text":"It's called the Bladen County Improvement Association, and it's been operating for at least 30 years.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1642.9,"start":1636.57}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING^","text":"But who exactly runs this organization is a mystery to many residents.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1647.97,"start":1642.9}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"This is a local TV news segment, pretty typical of local news coverage of the PAC around that time.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1654.3,"start":1647.97}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"It features close-ups of official looking documents.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1657.54,"start":1654.3}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"And then, cut to a guy in his dining room, talking to a TV reporter, with those documents artfully spread out on the table before him.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1665.653,"start":1657.54}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING (BENNY CALLAHAN)^","text":"They say they're Bladen County Improvement Association.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1669.57,"start":1665.653}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING (BENNY CALLAHAN)^","text":"And if they are, I might would want to be a member.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1672.84,"start":1669.57}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING (BENNY CALLAHAN)^","text":"I want to improve Bladen County.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1674.64,"start":1672.84}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING (BENNY CALLAHAN)^","text":"I would like to see it grow and be beautiful.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1676.83,"start":1674.64}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING (BENNY CALLAHAN)^","text":"But I've never seen a park that they cleaned up, never seen any playground equipment -- and I'm not saying they've not done this.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1684.12,"start":1676.83}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING (BENNY CALLAHAN)^","text":"But if they have, I don't have any knowledge of it.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1686.58,"start":1684.12}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING^","text":"Instead, the only thing resident Benny Callahan sees this group do is work to influence the outcome of the elections.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1693.93,"start":1686.58}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"It's a one-interview story with one random white guy in the county.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1698.55,"start":1693.93}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Not the mayor, not a politician.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1700.72,"start":1698.55}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"He's a literal rando.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1702.63,"start":1700.72}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"But now that I've talked to a lot of people in Bladen County, I do think his view actually did represent how lots of white conservatives were feeling about the Association.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1712.54,"start":1702.63}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING^","text":"Benny Callahan thinks the group holds far too much sway and literally controls who gets elected through a group of hundreds of residents who vote exactly the way they're told.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1721.548,"start":1712.54}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING (BENNY CALLAHAN)^","text":"They control our day-to-day lives.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1724.59,"start":1721.548}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING (BENNY CALLAHAN)^","text":"And they're electing people that maybe I don't want and maybe a lot of the people in Bladen County don't want.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1731.61,"start":1724.59}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"The TV story didn't mention the Bladen Improvement is an all-Black political organization in a majority white county.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1742.17,"start":1735.06}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"But of course, that was the central dynamic of this election.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1747.19,"start":1742.17}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Bladen had been living with the power of the PAC for years, and they did have a lot of influence.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1752.2,"start":1747.19}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"But using that to put the first Black guy in the Sheriff's office brought a lot to the surface.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1758.23,"start":1752.2}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Things got vicious inside the Sheriff's department.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1761.28,"start":1758.23}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Wanda Monroe, a Black Sheriff's deputy who's in the PAC, said she was used to getting along with everybody at work.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1768.03,"start":1761.28}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"But once her white colleagues realized that Eric Bryan, the white candidate, might lose and Prentis could win, things got bad.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1776.61,"start":1768.03}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^WANDA MONROE^","text":"Caucasians that were for Eric did not mind making it known that they did not want to be ruled by a Black Sheriff, not in their lifetime.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1789.54,"start":1776.61}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^WANDA MONROE^","text":"\"Bladen County never had one, they don't need one,\" was some of the words that I had heard.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1795.69,"start":1789.54}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ZOE CHACE^","text":"So people, were they saying that out in the open?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1799.23,"start":1795.69}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ZOE CHACE^","text":"How were people making that known?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1801.22,"start":1799.23}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^WANDA MONROE^","text":"Yeah, they are bold.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1802.95,"start":1801.22}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ZOE CHACE^","text":"So did people come up to you and say it to your face?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1806.46,"start":1802.95}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^WANDA MONROE^","text":"Yes, because they were looking for a reaction because they wanted to know who I was endorsing.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1811.05,"start":1806.46}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Prentis told me he started to worry for his safety.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1818.08,"start":1814.87}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"He declined an offer to go to the firing range with some white deputies at one point.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1823.09,"start":1818.08}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"He just didn't trust people, he said.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1825.04,"start":1823.09}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"He started taking precautions, stopped eating at certain places.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1831.2,"start":1825.04}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"The reason so many people were agitated over this election is because we're talking about the Sheriff's office.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1838.97,"start":1831.2}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"It is hard to overstate the power a Sheriff's office has in a place like this.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1843.98,"start":1838.97}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"In a rural county with tiny or nonexistent local police forces in the few towns that exist, the Sheriff is a sort of king, deciding what law enforcement looks","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1853.79,"start":1843.98}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"like in the county, whose businesses are getting busted for bending the rules, whose kids are getting a verbal warning, whose kids are getting arrested.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1862.36,"start":1853.79}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"One time, I was sitting with Horace's friend Cogdell there in his truck to get out of the cold, and we were talking about all the opposition to Prentis.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1870.49,"start":1862.36}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"And he brought up another aspect of the Sheriff's power that I hadn't even considered.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1875.38,"start":1870.49}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"A Sheriff is as close as you can get to omniscient in a rumory place like this one.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1880.42,"start":1875.38}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^COGDELL^","text":"You've got to understand, when you get into certain positions, Zoe, here what you open up.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1887.81,"start":1880.42}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^COGDELL^","text":"It's just like this.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1889.01,"start":1887.81}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^COGDELL^","text":"In my house, I'm the head of my house.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1891.5,"start":1889.01}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^COGDELL^","text":"When things happen in my house, it comes by me.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1894.53,"start":1891.5}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^COGDELL^","text":"When you're in the leadership role, everything must come by you.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1899.72,"start":1894.53}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^COGDELL^","text":"All the knowledge and all the secrets and everything have to come by you.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1904.55,"start":1899.72}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^COGDELL^","text":"So at that point in time, ain't no more secrets.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1907.55,"start":1904.55}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ZOE CHACE^","text":"So what's that have to do with Prentis running for sheriff?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1909.29,"start":1907.55}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^COGDELL^","text":"Everything he had, they didn't want him knowing everything that came through that system.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1913.64,"start":1909.29}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"The Sheriff knows people's business in the county, the human part, the embarrassing, or the tragic, as well as the criminal or the unethical.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1921.98,"start":1913.64}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"That kind of power is not something any Black person in Bladen County had ever had before, so far as I can tell.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1928.73,"start":1921.98}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^COGDELL^","text":"If your child had committed the crime, if your child had some drug issues, if you were writing bad checks and they going all over the place, and you high and mighty.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1941.9,"start":1928.73}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^COGDELL^","text":"So who would know it?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1943.1,"start":1941.9}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^COGDELL^","text":"Prentis would have to know all of it.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1944.83,"start":1943.1}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"The day of the runoff came.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1951.47,"start":1949.33}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"There were 17 polling places open.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1954.17,"start":1951.47}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"The PAC had workers at 16 of them.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1956.58,"start":1954.17}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"One was a church.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1957.45,"start":1956.58}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"They didn't want electioneering on the property.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1960.47,"start":1957.45}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Horace did what he does every Election Day.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1963.5,"start":1960.47}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"He started around 7:30 and drove around to all the polling places, checked in with the poll workers, dropped off their checks.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1971.54,"start":1963.5}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"The PAC poll workers are paid by the PAC a stipend for gas and food.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1976.34,"start":1971.54}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"He was probably asking everyone, have you seen a lot of minorities voting today?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1980.69,"start":1976.34}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"He does that.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1982.07,"start":1980.69}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"And then when he finished his rounds, he waited.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1986.09,"start":1982.07}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Bladen County always gathers to watch election returns at the County Courthouse.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1990.53,"start":1986.09}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"And that night, it was packed and also silent as the results clicked in.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1996.87,"start":1990.53}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Nearly every Black voter cast a vote for Prentis Benston, plus a few white voters.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2003.32,"start":1996.87}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"And Prentis Benston won by almost 300 votes.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2007.49,"start":2003.32}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Horace's strategy had worked.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2009.71,"start":2007.49}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"It was the absentee ballots that made the difference.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2013.46,"start":2009.71}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Wanda Monroe, the Sheriff's deputy who's in the PAC, she remembers that night.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2017.87,"start":2013.46}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^WANDA MONROE^","text":"This is strictly opinion, you know that, right?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2020.6,"start":2017.87}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^WANDA MONROE^","text":"But it was almost like they realized that we weren't dumb.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2029.03,"start":2020.6}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^WANDA MONROE^","text":"[LAUGHS] That we are living, breathing human beings with brains.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2037.347,"start":2029.03}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ZOE CHACE^","text":"That's what it felt like?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2038.93,"start":2037.347}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^WANDA MONROE^","text":"Yes.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2040.4,"start":2038.93}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^WANDA MONROE^","text":"Like OK, they smart.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2042.56,"start":2040.4}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^WANDA MONROE^","text":"They may be too smart for their own good.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2047.05,"start":2045.34}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^WANDA MONROE^","text":"[LAUGHS]","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2049.495,"start":2047.05}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[MUSIC]","text":"","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2053.407,"start":2049.495}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"In the days following the election, Horace, who should have been celebrating up and down the county, was upset.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2063.73,"start":2056.83}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^HORACE MUNN^","text":"I felt like it was highway robbery.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2066.52,"start":2063.73}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^HORACE MUNN^","text":"I felt they had done Prentis wrong.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2068.02,"start":2066.52}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^HORACE MUNN^","text":"I was angry.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2069.07,"start":2068.02}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Prentis's victory was short-lived.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2071.719,"start":2069.07}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Horace had a whole other problem on his hands.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2074.44,"start":2071.719}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"That's after the break.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2075.859,"start":2074.44}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[MUSIC]","text":"","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2079.771,"start":2075.859}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[MUSIC]","text":"Prentis Benston had won the runoff for the Democratic primary.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2095.5,"start":2091.51}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[MUSIC]","text":"He'd beat Eric Bryan.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2097.05,"start":2095.5}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[MUSIC]","text":"And throughout the race, the county government had been saying, whoever won the runoff would be the Sheriff.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2103.69,"start":2097.05}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[MUSIC]","text":"Because in Bladen County, the Democratic primary was the election when it came to the Sheriff's race.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2109.33,"start":2103.69}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[MUSIC]","text":"A Republican challenger for Sheriff, if there even was one, had no chance.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2114.22,"start":2109.33}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[MUSIC]","text":"So Horace says that he'd been told, that everyone had been told, the primary winner would be appointed right away to serve through the general election.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2122.86,"start":2114.22}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^HORACE MUNN^","text":"But they were under the assumption that Eric Bryan was going to win.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2126.87,"start":2122.86}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^HORACE MUNN^","text":"And he lost.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2129.18,"start":2126.87}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^HORACE MUNN^","text":"And all of a sudden, I hear rumors that we're going to bring somebody else in.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2133.98,"start":2129.18}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"OK, real quick, what happened next is like a little play within a play farce of small town politics.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2140.58,"start":2133.98}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"But I'm going to tell you because it's an illustration of how badly it seems people in power did not want Prentis Benston to take office.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2150.99,"start":2140.58}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"First, the county commission doesn't see them.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2154.14,"start":2150.99}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Instead, the commission votes on an interim Sheriff, this guy Earl Storms, to serve till December.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2160.05,"start":2154.14}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"He's a former Sheriff from the '80s.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2162.54,"start":2160.05}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"But what the commissioners don't all account for, apparently, is that Earl Storms is a Prentis Benston booster.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2168.69,"start":2162.54}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"He'd hired him back when.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2170.52,"start":2168.69}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"And so Earl Storms's first move as Sheriff is to let go of Deputy Eric Bryan, the candidate Prentis Benston has just beat in the runoff, and also four other deputies who are Eric Bryan supporters.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2182.64,"start":2170.52}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Poof.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2183.36,"start":2182.64}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Suddenly, they were out of jobs.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2185.01,"start":2183.36}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Interim Sheriff Storms reportedly posts a memo telling everyone, answer to Prentis Benston, not to me.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2191.61,"start":2185.01}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Then the commission is like, this isn't what we wanted to happen and tries to get rid of Earl Storms.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2196.23,"start":2191.61}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"It was like, who's in charge?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2197.52,"start":2196.23}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Everyone's mad.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2198.48,"start":2197.52}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"There were big angry meetings covered by local news.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2201.058,"start":2198.48}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING^","text":"While commissioners appointed him to the job, it seems state law won't allow the board to fire him.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2206.1,"start":2201.058}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING^","text":"We can ask him to resign, but we can't make him resign.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2209.64,"start":2206.1}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING^","text":"We can't do nothing with him.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2211.5,"start":2209.64}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING^","text":"What was supposed to be calm has only spawned storms.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2215.91,"start":2211.5}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"In the meantime, a petition surfaces to get a guy onto the ballot in time for the general election, a former highway patrolman, this white guy, Billy Ward, a Democrat who filed as an independent, who suddenly had a lot of muscle behind him.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2231.54,"start":2215.91}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Finally, finally, it's election night again, this time in November, after Horace and everyone else has cranked out a third get out the vote effort for the same election, the whole shadoo all over again.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2245.4,"start":2231.54}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"And now, everyone's gathered in the courthouse.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2248.898,"start":2245.4}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING^","text":"I'm John Ruman.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2250.44,"start":2248.898}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING^","text":"I'm at the courthouse in Elizabethtown in Bladen County.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2252.78,"start":2250.44}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING^","text":"And pardon the pun, but there's a new Sheriff in town in Bladen County.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2256.86,"start":2252.78}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING^","text":"And it's Prentis Benston.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2258.51,"start":2256.86}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING^","text":"Congratulations tonight.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2260.76,"start":2258.51}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING^","text":"How does this sound, Sheriff Prentis Benston?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2263.455,"start":2260.76}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING (PRENTIS BENSTON)^","text":"That sounds good.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2265.83,"start":2263.455}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING (PRENTIS BENSTON)^","text":"Certainly, John, it's a great day, a great night for Bladen County, for me.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2271.14,"start":2265.83}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^HORACE MUNN^","text":"Did you know that when Prentis actually won, I stayed home?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2275.642,"start":2271.14}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ZOE CHACE^","text":"On the night of the general?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2277.35,"start":2275.642}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^HORACE MUNN^","text":"Yes.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2279.71,"start":2277.35}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ZOE CHACE^","text":"Why?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2280.82,"start":2279.71}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^HORACE MUNN^","text":"I stayed home.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2282.82,"start":2280.82}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Horace gets a little starry-eyed when he talks about the victory.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2286.358,"start":2282.82}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^HORACE MUNN^","text":"I don't think --","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2287.65,"start":2286.358}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^HORACE MUNN^","text":"I would have gotten so emotional if he lost.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2290.64,"start":2287.65}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^HORACE MUNN^","text":"So I stayed home.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2293.06,"start":2290.64}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^HORACE MUNN^","text":"Yeah.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2294.452,"start":2293.06}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ZOE CHACE^","text":"So what happened when Prentis called you that night?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2297.16,"start":2294.452}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^HORACE MUNN^","text":"Oh, I was ecstatic.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2298.577,"start":2297.16}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^HORACE MUNN^","text":"Oh, I remember it.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2300.15,"start":2298.577}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^HORACE MUNN^","text":"It's like yesterday.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2302.14,"start":2300.15}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ZOE CHACE^","text":"What happened?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2303.49,"start":2302.14}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^HORACE MUNN^","text":"Oh, I was jumping for joy.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2306.14,"start":2303.49}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^HORACE MUNN^","text":"Unbelievable.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2307.8,"start":2306.14}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^HORACE MUNN^","text":"Dream come true.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2309.03,"start":2307.8}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^HORACE MUNN^","text":"Hard work that paid off.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2311.82,"start":2309.03}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^HORACE MUNN^","text":"I think the next day, I slept.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2314.94,"start":2311.82}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^HORACE MUNN^","text":"And I think --","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2315.72,"start":2314.94}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^HORACE MUNN^","text":"I said, you know what?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2317.22,"start":2315.72}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^HORACE MUNN^","text":"I'm so excited, I went and bought me a new car.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2319.68,"start":2317.22}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^HORACE MUNN^","text":"[LAUGHS]","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2321.462,"start":2319.68}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ZOE CHACE^","text":"Are you serious?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2322.67,"start":2321.462}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^HORACE MUNN^","text":"Yes.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2324.48,"start":2322.67}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^HORACE MUNN^","text":"That's my brother's SUV I'm driving.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2326.018,"start":2324.48}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ZOE CHACE^","text":"The which that you're driving?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2327.81,"start":2326.018}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^HORACE MUNN^","text":"The SUV.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2328.768,"start":2327.81}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ZOE CHACE^","text":"Oh, yeah.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2329.69,"start":2328.768}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^HORACE MUNN^","text":"Yeah, I bought that car after the election.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2332.46,"start":2329.69}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^HORACE MUNN^","text":"Sure did.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2332.96,"start":2332.46}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^HORACE MUNN^","text":"Yeah, I remember.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2339.52,"start":2336.624}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Winning is so sweet, but this victory is not the point of the story.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2345.51,"start":2339.52}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"It's not why Horace is telling it to me.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2347.71,"start":2345.51}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"The whole point of Horace's story is what happened next.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2351.7,"start":2347.71}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"After the first Black Sheriff in Bladen County was elected with the help of a slew of absentee votes, the point of the story is this.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2359.95,"start":2351.7}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Horace got a visit from a local guy, a guy who worked during the Sheriff's race for Prentis's opponent.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2366.04,"start":2359.95}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"This man came to see Horace after the race was over, shook his hand, was like, good game.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2371.44,"start":2366.04}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"It was McCrae Dowless.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2373.84,"start":2371.44}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^HORACE MUNN^","text":"It was McCrae.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2375.25,"start":2373.84}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^HORACE MUNN^","text":"McCrae, once the election was over, he say, Horace, you got me.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2379.78,"start":2375.25}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^HORACE MUNN^","text":"He wasn't a sore loser.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2381.85,"start":2379.78}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^HORACE MUNN^","text":"We talked about it.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2383.83,"start":2381.85}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^HORACE MUNN^","text":"And he actually befriended us and started hanging around.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2389.627,"start":2383.83}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ZOE CHACE^","text":"How so?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2390.46,"start":2389.627}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^HORACE MUNN^","text":"At the time, he was a Democrat.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2391.833,"start":2390.46}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ZOE CHACE^","text":"Right.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2392.625,"start":2391.833}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^HORACE MUNN^","text":"So he dealt with us through the Democrat Party.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2395.68,"start":2392.625}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^HORACE MUNN^","text":"So he befriended us and hung around long enough to learn a little bit, how we were doing what we're doing.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2404.107,"start":2395.68}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^HORACE MUNN^","text":"It doesn't take a rocket scientist to do it.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2405.94,"start":2404.107}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^HORACE MUNN^","text":"But he kind of hung around a little bit.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2407.88,"start":2405.94}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ZOE CHACE^","text":"But like, what does hang around mean?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2410.19,"start":2407.88}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^HORACE MUNN^","text":"Come to the Democratic meetings and talk about --","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2413.48,"start":2410.19}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^HORACE MUNN^","text":"congratulate sometimes our success with the absentee ballots and stuff like that.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2417.42,"start":2413.48}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Horace and McCrae shared an obsession with Bladen County politics, which I, too, now share.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2424.14,"start":2417.42}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"They talked on the phone a lot.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2425.97,"start":2424.14}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"They talked about the absentee ballot, get out the vote strategy, how exactly it worked.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2430.89,"start":2425.97}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"They were on the same side for a little while.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2434.04,"start":2430.89}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"But then, just four years later, as more and more people in Bladen County were starting to vote Republican in local elections, a viable Republican candidate ran for Sheriff.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2444.93,"start":2434.04}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"That Republican campaign for Sheriff ended up working with McCrae Dowless to get out the vote.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2450.84,"start":2444.93}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"And how did McCrae get out the vote?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2452.85,"start":2450.84}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"He ran an absentee ballot get out the vote program very much like the one the PAC had run four years earlier to get Prentis elected.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2461.25,"start":2452.85}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"McCrae's involvement is spelled out in court documents, including an affidavit from McCrae.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2466.94,"start":2461.25}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Lots of absentee ballots poured in that year, but Prentis lost.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2473.04,"start":2466.94}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Prentis's Sherriff's term was the shortest in more than 80 years.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2477.12,"start":2473.04}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"The way Horace sees it, the 2010 Sheriff's race in Bladen County began an escalating absentee ballot war between the PAC and McCrae Dowless that culminated spectacularly in the 2018 congressional scandal, where Bladen County became famous for alleged election cheating.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2498.37,"start":2480.76}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^HORACE MUNN^","text":"So basically what happened was, McCrae decided to take our strategy and use it against us.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2504.01,"start":2498.37}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^HORACE MUNN^","text":"We will operate within the law.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2506.35,"start":2504.01}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^HORACE MUNN^","text":"He was operating outside of the law.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2509.74,"start":2506.35}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"That's Horace's story of how the fraud started here as a white reaction to Black voters putting a Black man in charge.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2518.26,"start":2509.74}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"But of course, that's not how everyone in Bladen County sees it.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2522.19,"start":2518.26}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"I'd venture to say not even how most people in Bladen County see it.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2527.513,"start":2522.19}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^SPEAKER^","text":"I don't know who trained who.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2529.18,"start":2527.513}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^SPEAKER^","text":"[LAUGHS] But if you think Horace Munn is less guilty than McCrae Dowless, you're smoking some strange stuff.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2541.51,"start":2529.18}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^SPEAKER^","text":"[LAUGHS]","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2546.14,"start":2541.51}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"That's next time on the Improvement Association.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2549.484,"start":2546.14}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[MUSIC]","text":"","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2553.436,"start":2549.484}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[MUSIC]","text":"The Improvement Association is produced by Nancy Updike and me.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2578.35,"start":2574.2}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[MUSIC]","text":"Neil Drumming is our managing editor.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2580.24,"start":2578.35}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[MUSIC]","text":"Julie Snyder is the executive editor.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2582.25,"start":2580.24}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[MUSIC]","text":"Additional editing by Sarah Koenig and Ira Glass.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2585.31,"start":2582.25}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[MUSIC]","text":"R.L. Nave is our editorial consultant.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2587.77,"start":2585.31}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[MUSIC]","text":"Fact-checking and research by Ben Phelan.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2589.96,"start":2587.77}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[MUSIC]","text":"Music supervision and mixing by Phoebe Wang.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2592.81,"start":2589.96}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[MUSIC]","text":"Amy Pedulla is our associate producer.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2595.1,"start":2592.81}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[MUSIC]","text":"Ndeye Thioubou is the supervising producer.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2597.76,"start":2595.1}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[MUSIC]","text":"Original music composed by Kwame Brandt-Pierce.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2601.27,"start":2597.76}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[MUSIC]","text":"Additional support from the staff at This American Life, including Emanuele Berry, Julie Whitaker, Cassie Howley, Seth Lind and Frances Swanson.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2609.37,"start":2601.27}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[MUSIC]","text":"At The New York Times, Sam Dolnick, Lauren Jackson, Elizabeth Davis-Moore, Alena Cerro and Nora Keller.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2616.24,"start":2609.37}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[MUSIC]","text":"Special thanks to Tim Tyson, Michael Bitzer, Hakeem Brown, Joe Bruno, Dr. Niambi Carter, Al Daniels, Herman Dunn, Mark Elias, Steve Lasseigne, Jens Loots, Eric Ostermeier, Kenny Simmons, and Zach St. Louis.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2631.61,"start":2616.24}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[MUSIC]","text":"The Improvement Association is produced by Serial Productions and The New York Times.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2637.09,"start":2631.61}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[MUSIC]","text":"[MUSIC]","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2641.04,"start":2637.09}}]},"credit":"","fileUrl":"https:\u002F\u002Fnyt.simplecastaudio.com\u002Fd7b66137-c66c-4a78-a832-79703f55da09\u002Fepisodes\u002Ffbc5762e-acfd-438b-b027-858139a7d70f\u002Faudio\u002F128\u002Fdefault.mp3?awCollectionId=d7b66137-c66c-4a78-a832-79703f55da09&awEpisodeId=fbc5762e-acfd-438b-b027-858139a7d70f","firstPublished":"2021-04-07T21:45:39.000Z","headline":{"__typename":"CreativeWorkHeadline","default":"Listen to Chapter One."},"id":"QXVkaW86bnl0Oi8vYXVkaW8vN2E5OTkzMDEtZjYyYi01NmJiLWJkMTItOWVmMjA2ODgyNmEx","length":2770,"podcastSeries":{"__typename":"AudioPodcastSeries","image":{"__typename":"Image","crops":[{"__typename":"ImageCrop","renditions":[{"__typename":"ImageRendition","height":75,"name":"thumbStandard","url":"https:\u002F\u002Fstatic01.nyt.com\u002Fimages\u002F2021\u002F02\u002F17\u002Fpodcasts\u002Ftia-serial-albumartwork\u002Ftia-serial-albumartwork-thumbStandard.png","width":75},{"__typename":"ImageRendition","height":150,"name":"thumbLarge","url":"https:\u002F\u002Fstatic01.nyt.com\u002Fimages\u002F2021\u002F02\u002F17\u002Fpodcasts\u002Ftia-serial-albumartwork\u002Ftia-serial-albumartwork-thumbLarge.png","width":150}]}],"id":"SW1hZ2U6bnl0Oi8vaW1hZ2UvYTY1NTkxMGItZjVhZC01ZGZkLThmMTMtZDQ0NTNlMTAzNTRk"},"name":"The-Improvement-Association","summary":"TKTKTKTKTKTKTKTKTKTKTKTKTKTKTK","title":"The Improvement Association"},"promotionalHeadline":"Listen to Chapter One.","section":{"__typename":"Section","id":"U2VjdGlvbjpueXQ6Ly9zZWN0aW9uLzExMDc5OTg3LWFlOGQtNWY1Zi04YzJlLThjNjZkMzM3ZDJiYQ==","name":"podcasts"},"sourceId":"100000007696879","summary":"Who’s been cheating in Bladen County?","uri":"nyt:\u002F\u002Faudio\u002F7a999301-f62b-56bb-bd12-9ef2068826a1"}},{"__typename":"Dropzone","adsDesktop":true,"adsDesktopHoldout":true,"adsHybrid":true,"adsMobile":true,"adsMobileHoldout":false,"bad":false,"index":3},{"__typename":"ParagraphBlock","content":[{"__typename":"TextInline","formats":[],"text":"During a "},{"__typename":"TextInline","formats":[{"__typename":"LinkFormat","title":"","uri":null,"url":"https:\u002F\u002Fwww.nytimes.com\u002F2019\u002F07\u002F30\u002Fus\u002Fmccrae-dowless-indictment.html"}],"text":"hearing that followed"},{"__typename":"TextInline","formats":[],"text":" the notorious case of election fraud in Bladen County, the Bladen Improvement PAC was mentioned and dragged into the scandal. Later, Horace Munn, one of the PAC’s leaders, reached out to Zoe with an invitation to come down to North Carolina and hear what’s behind all these cheating allegations."}],"textAlign":"LEFT"},{"__typename":"Dropzone","adsDesktop":false,"adsDesktopHoldout":false,"adsHybrid":false,"adsMobile":false,"adsMobileHoldout":false,"bad":true,"index":4},{"__typename":"ImageBlock","media":{"__typename":"Image","altText":"","caption":{"__typename":"TextOnlyDocumentBlock","content":[{"__typename":"ParagraphBlock","content":[{"__typename":"TextInline","formats":[],"text":"A tree in the water at Jones Lake State Park in Bladen County, N.C."}]}],"text":"A tree in the water at Jones Lake State Park in Bladen County, N.C."},"credit":"Jeremy M. Lange for The New York Times","crops":[{"__typename":"ImageCrop","renditions":[{"__typename":"ImageRendition","height":480,"name":"articleLarge","url":"https:\u002F\u002Fstatic01.nyt.com\u002Fimages\u002F2021\u002F04\u002F07\u002Fpodcasts\u002Ftia-scene-5\u002Ftia-scene-5-articleLarge.jpg","width":600},{"__typename":"ImageRendition","height":500,"name":"popup","url":"https:\u002F\u002Fstatic01.nyt.com\u002Fimages\u002F2021\u002F04\u002F07\u002Fpodcasts\u002Ftia-scene-5\u002Ftia-scene-5-popup.jpg","width":625},{"__typename":"ImageRendition","height":819,"name":"jumbo","url":"https:\u002F\u002Fstatic01.nyt.com\u002Fimages\u002F2021\u002F04\u002F07\u002Fpodcasts\u002Ftia-scene-5\u002Ftia-scene-5-jumbo.jpg","width":1024},{"__typename":"ImageRendition","height":1638,"name":"superJumbo","url":"https:\u002F\u002Fstatic01.nyt.com\u002Fimages\u002F2021\u002F04\u002F07\u002Fpodcasts\u002Ftia-scene-5\u002Ftia-scene-5-superJumbo.jpg","width":2048}]},{"__typename":"ImageCrop","renditions":[{"__typename":"ImageRendition","height":150,"name":"thumbLarge","url":"https:\u002F\u002Fstatic01.nyt.com\u002Fimages\u002F2021\u002F04\u002F07\u002Fpodcasts\u002Ftia-scene-5\u002Ftia-scene-5-thumbLarge.jpg","width":150}]},{"__typename":"ImageCrop","renditions":[{"__typename":"ImageRendition","height":152,"name":"articleInline","url":"https:\u002F\u002Fstatic01.nyt.com\u002Fimages\u002F2021\u002F04\u002F07\u002Fpodcasts\u002Ftia-scene-5\u002Ftia-scene-5-articleInline.jpg","width":190}]},{"__typename":"ImageCrop","renditions":[{"__typename":"ImageRendition","height":1440,"name":"mobileMasterAt3x","url":"https:\u002F\u002Fstatic01.nyt.com\u002Fimages\u002F2021\u002F04\u002F07\u002Fpodcasts\u002Ftia-scene-5\u002Ftia-scene-5-mobileMasterAt3x.jpg","width":1800}]}],"id":"SW1hZ2U6bnl0Oi8vaW1hZ2UvMDRlYmIwN2YtOWRmMS01OTAyLWEwNzctYWY0Y2MwNTgyN2Fi","imageType":"photo","legacyHtmlCaption":"A tree in the water at Jones Lake State Park in Bladen County, N.C.","timesTags":[],"uri":"nyt:\u002F\u002Fimage\u002F04ebb07f-9df1-5902-a077-af4cc05827ab","url":"\u002Fimagepages\u002F2021\u002F04\u002F07\u002Fpodcasts\u002Ftia-scene-5.html"},"size":"MEDIUM"},{"__typename":"Dropzone","adsDesktop":false,"adsDesktopHoldout":false,"adsHybrid":false,"adsMobile":false,"adsMobileHoldout":false,"bad":true,"index":5},{"__typename":"Heading2Block","content":[{"__typename":"TextInline","formats":[],"text":"Chapter Two: ‘Where Is Your Choice?’"}],"textAlign":"LEFT"},{"__typename":"AudioBlock","media":{"__typename":"Audio","audioTranscript":{"__typename":"AudioTranscript","transcriptFragment":[{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING^","text":"From Serial Productions and The New York Times, this is The Improvement Association.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":6.63,"start":0}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Chapter 2, Where's Your Choice?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":8.925,"start":6.63}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Being the chair of the Bladen County Board of Elections is a pretty intense job in a place where accusations of election fraud are as common as American flags.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":21.27,"start":11.62}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"All the accusations come to the board, and then they have to sort out what to go after and what's just election noise.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":28.11,"start":21.27}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"In 2018, the year of the big congressional race crack-up, the chair of the elections board was a man named Bobby Ludlum.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":35.64,"start":28.11}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Republican, a white guy.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":37.32,"start":35.64}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"He'd served on the Board of Elections for years.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":40.39,"start":37.32}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"And during early voting that year, Bobby noticed something unusual was happening with absentee ballot request forms.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":47.88,"start":40.39}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Bladen always saw an unusually high number of absentee ballot requests come in.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":52.44,"start":47.88}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"And Bobby knew that a local elections guy, McCrae Dowless, had some people working for him, dropping off absentee request forms in big stacks every couple of days.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":62.76,"start":52.44}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"That's not illegal and, in Bladen County, not that weird.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":66.99,"start":62.76}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"But, one day, workers at the Board of Elections were going through this pile of request forms and came across this one absentee ballot request for the 94-year-old mother-in-law of someone who worked at the Board of Elections, a person they knew did not vote.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":84.42,"start":66.99}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"One of the workers reported this to Bobby Ludlum, the chairman.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":87.96,"start":84.42}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"And he said, bring me the stack.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":89.94,"start":87.96}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"I'll look at them.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":91.35,"start":89.94}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^BOBBY LUDLUM^","text":"I started going through them.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":93.33,"start":91.35}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^BOBBY LUDLUM^","text":"And all of a sudden, here's my grandson.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":96.082,"start":93.33}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^BOBBY LUDLUM^","text":"[LAUGHS] And he has absolutely no intention of voting.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":103.92,"start":96.082}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^BOBBY LUDLUM^","text":"So I called Harley, my grandson.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":108.97,"start":106.48}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^BOBBY LUDLUM^","text":"I said, Harley, did you find a request for an absentee ballot?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":114.82,"start":108.97}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^BOBBY LUDLUM^","text":"And he basically said, what's that?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":119.47,"start":114.82}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Bobby Ludlum explained to his grandson, Harley, what an absentee ballot request form was.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":125.74,"start":119.47}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"And Harley said, oh, yeah, I remember what happened.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":129.07,"start":125.74}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^BOBBY LUDLUM^","text":"He said that two women came to -- he was at his friend's house, and they were in the pool.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":136.84,"start":129.07}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^BOBBY LUDLUM^","text":"And he said one of the ladies got out of the van, came up, and asked him to sign the --","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":143.68,"start":136.84}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^BOBBY LUDLUM^","text":"and they refused to sign them.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":146.697,"start":143.68}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ZOE CHACE^","text":"Did they -- she worked --","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":148.28,"start":146.697}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^BOBBY LUDLUM^","text":"For McCrae.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":149.12,"start":148.28}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ZOE CHACE^","text":"Right.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":149.912,"start":149.12}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^BOBBY LUDLUM^","text":"And her last name was Dowless.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":151.962,"start":149.912}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ZOE CHACE^","text":"Jessica Dowless.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":153.17,"start":151.962}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^BOBBY LUDLUM^","text":"Hmm?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":153.77,"start":153.17}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ZOE CHACE^","text":"Jessica.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":154.71,"start":153.77}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^BOBBY LUDLUM^","text":"Yeah, yeah, yeah.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":156.17,"start":154.71}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Jessica Dowless is married to a distant relative of McCrae Dowless.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":160.2,"start":156.17}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"She was working for him during the election.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":163.01,"start":160.2}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"The signature on the request form was not Bobby's grandson's signature, but somehow, the form had his Social Security number on it.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":171.61,"start":163.01}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"So, Bobby called the State Board of Elections, which had already been hearing some things about Bladen County that year.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":178.78,"start":171.61}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"And they sent investigators to Bladen to look into what was happening.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":183.01,"start":178.78}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"The result was the big state board of elections hearing, where workers for McCrae Dowless testified they'd been paid to pick up people's ballots, sometimes fill in other people's ballots, which led to indictments.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":196.75,"start":183.01}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"But the reason I tell you this story is because Bobby Ludlum --","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":200.59,"start":196.75}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Bobby, whose own grandson was a victim of alleged election fraud --","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":205.69,"start":200.59}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Bobby, who was overseeing elections in Bladen County --","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":209.89,"start":205.69}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Bobby thinks McCrae got a raw deal because --","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":213.7,"start":209.89}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^BOBBY LUDLUM^","text":"Bladen Improvement Group has done at least as bad and maybe worse.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":219.97,"start":213.7}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Bobby thinks the Bladen County Improvement Association, and specifically, Horace Munn, as the head of its political arm, the Bladen Improvement PAC, has been up to election shenanigans for years.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":232.27,"start":219.97}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"So many people in Bladen have said something like this to me.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":236.71,"start":232.27}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"I'd ask about the 2018 congressional race and absentee ballots and McCrae Dowless.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":241.96,"start":236.71}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"They'd say, yeah, but what about the other side?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":244.69,"start":241.96}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"The Democrats, they were just as bad -- worse.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":247.63,"start":244.69}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"And they've gotten off.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":248.89,"start":247.63}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Nothing's happened to them.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":250.12,"start":248.89}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"One day, I was in Elizabethtown, the county seat.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":256.079,"start":252.9}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"I was down there reporting on a special election, standing outside the polling place at the gym with a couple of TV reporters.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":263.1,"start":256.079}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"And this woman flew up the block at us and just launched into it.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":267.27,"start":263.1}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^JANE PAIT^","text":"I'm sorry, but I'm going to tell y'all, I've had enough.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":271.003,"start":267.27}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ZOE CHACE^","text":"Enough of what?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":272.17,"start":271.003}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^JANE PAIT^","text":"I've had enough of all the craziness here in this county.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":275.37,"start":272.17}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^JANE PAIT^","text":"And I'm going to tell you something else.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":277.36,"start":275.37}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^JANE PAIT^","text":"I have reported it.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":278.52,"start":277.36}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^JANE PAIT^","text":"Every year as the judge that I served --","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":280.617,"start":278.52}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ZOE CHACE^","text":"A poll judge?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":281.7,"start":280.617}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^JANE PAIT^","text":"Yes.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":282.2,"start":281.7}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ZOE CHACE^","text":"Uh-huh.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":282.75,"start":282.2}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^JANE PAIT^","text":"And the records are up there in Raleigh.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":284.958,"start":282.75}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^JANE PAIT^","text":"The records are over there at the board.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":286.86,"start":284.958}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^JANE PAIT^","text":"And let me tell you something, it wasn't the Republican Party.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":289.86,"start":286.86}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^JANE PAIT^","text":"That's what I think, and I don't care if you're taping me.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":292.47,"start":289.86}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Oh, I'm taping you, I told her.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":294.84,"start":292.47}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"I had my microphone out.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":297.06,"start":294.84}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"This is Jane Pait, a long-time Republican.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":300.57,"start":297.06}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Jane's been pretty upset since McCrae Dowless got in trouble.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":303.93,"start":300.57}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"She's sure McCrae got targeted only because he was working for Republicans, when, for years, Democrats have been doing the same thing.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":311.4,"start":303.93}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^JANE PAIT^","text":"Let me tell you something.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":313.097,"start":311.4}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^JANE PAIT^","text":"[SCOFFS] [GRUMBLES] There were two people in the election before the last one --","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":319.59,"start":313.097}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ZOE CHACE^","text":"2016.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":320.49,"start":319.59}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^JANE PAIT^","text":"-- that they could have actually brought charges against and didn't.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":324.9,"start":320.49}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ZOE CHACE^","text":"Who was that?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":326.22,"start":324.9}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^JANE PAIT^","text":"I can't name them.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":327.63,"start":326.22}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^JANE PAIT^","text":"Go to the board, get their names.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":330.2,"start":327.63}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ZOE CHACE^","text":"I think that was the Bladen Improvement Association.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":334.02,"start":330.2}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ZOE CHACE^","text":"Right?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":334.52,"start":334.02}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ZOE CHACE^","text":"Is that what you're talking about?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":335.937,"start":334.52}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^JANE PAIT^","text":"I'm pretty sure that's who they were with.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":338.237,"start":335.937}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ZOE CHACE^","text":"Uh-huh.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":339.07,"start":338.237}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^JANE PAIT^","text":"If you really want to do a story on this, we need to sit down and talk.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":344.347,"start":339.07}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ZOE CHACE^","text":"I am doing --","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":345.43,"start":344.347}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^JANE PAIT^","text":"And let me pull up my files.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":346.69,"start":345.43}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ZOE CHACE^","text":"I am doing a story on this.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":348.5,"start":346.69}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ZOE CHACE^","text":"So let's talk.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":351.57,"start":348.5}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"From Serial Productions, I'm Zoe Chace.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":354.54,"start":351.57}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"This is The Improvement Association, a true story about election fraud.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":359.979,"start":354.54}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[MUSIC]","text":"","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":363.891,"start":359.979}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[MUSIC]","text":"When Horace first called me down to North Carolina, he told me Republicans keep accusing the Bladen Improvement PAC of cheating in order to deflect scrutiny from the questionable stuff McCrae Dowless has been doing for years here.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":395.93,"start":382.01}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[MUSIC]","text":"That's his story.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":397.46,"start":395.93}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[MUSIC]","text":"Jane Pait and others in Bladen have a different story, that the election cheating in Bladen County began with the Bladen Improvement PAC, that the PAC has established a culture of breaking rules in the county that goes on to this day.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":411.47,"start":397.46}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[MUSIC]","text":"I wanted to know, is that true?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":413.69,"start":411.47}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[MUSIC]","text":"What specifically were people seeing the PAC do?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":416.93,"start":413.69}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[MUSIC]","text":"So I accept Jane's invitation to come over and check her files.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":420.692,"start":416.93}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^JANE PAIT^","text":"But anyway, did you get a chance to read through all that?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":423.65,"start":420.692}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ZOE CHACE^","text":"Yeah, I started --","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":424.19,"start":423.65}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ZOE CHACE^","text":"well, not all of it, but I started looking.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":425.982,"start":424.19}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ZOE CHACE^","text":"I was wondering --","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":426.98,"start":425.982}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"As soon as I arrive, Jane gets right into what she's seen.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":430.55,"start":426.98}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Her complaints are organized in a folder of papers she's laid out on her dining room table for me to look through.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":437.93,"start":430.55}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"When I barge in on people like this looking for something specific, lots of times, the rest of their lives are right there, too, right next to us.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":446.9,"start":437.93}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"In Jane's living room, the furniture was all pushed back against the wall to accommodate her niece's dialysis machine.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":453.88,"start":446.9}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Jane's niece, on dialysis, stayed in Jane's living room while her father was dying.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":459.52,"start":453.88}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Jane's lost several family members over the last few years, just recently her brother.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":464.47,"start":459.52}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"She's grieving.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":466.42,"start":464.47}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Jane admits that grief fuels some of her rage right now about local politics.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":472.96,"start":466.42}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"The papers she has out are formal letters that she's written to the County Board of Elections about problems she's observed.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":479.65,"start":472.96}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Fewer than I expected, to be honest, but she says a lot of her complaints over the years have taken the form of phone calls.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":487.03,"start":479.65}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Some of what she's written are just bullet points,","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":489.55,"start":487.03}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^JANE PAIT^","text":"Name and address verification procedure not followed.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":493.03,"start":489.55}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^JANE PAIT^","text":"Voter was not required to ask for help as is stated in the law.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":496.75,"start":493.03}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Virtually all her complaints are about the PAC, the Bladen Improvement Association, which definitely makes its presence known at the polls every local election.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":506.44,"start":496.75}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"I've seen a few elections here myself at this point.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":508.78,"start":506.44}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"I've seen how the PAC works.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":510.64,"start":508.78}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"They always have people outside the main polling place during early voting and on Election Day under a tent, chatting with voters, handing out a voter guide, offering voter assistance to anyone who needs it.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":523.659,"start":510.64}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Jane and I spent more than three hours talking through her papers.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":527.35,"start":523.659}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Some of them go back 10 years, each incident, each complaint in detail.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":532.3,"start":527.35}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"And what I get from hearing her walk through them is less of a smoking gun and more a general vibe of coercion or intimidation that Jane sees.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":544.09,"start":532.3}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Jane thinks the PAC, what they're really doing, their presence at the polls, it isn't helping or supporting Black voters.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":551.53,"start":544.09}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"It's harassing them, pressuring them into voting a certain way, like this story.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":557.695,"start":551.53}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^JANE PAIT^","text":"I wrote about what was going on.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":559.57,"start":557.695}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ZOE CHACE^","text":"Tell me.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":560.86,"start":559.57}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^JANE PAIT^","text":"Well, I'll just read it to you.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":563.57,"start":560.86}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ZOE CHACE^","text":"Great.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":564.43,"start":563.57}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Jane reads from her notes, an incident where she says she saw the harassment in action.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":570.05,"start":564.43}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"She's still mad about it.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":571.73,"start":570.05}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^JANE PAIT^","text":"I was disturbed -- and that's putting it lightly --","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":574.45,"start":571.73}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^JANE PAIT^","text":"to see that while I was there working Tuesday through Saturday, all curbside voting was taking place beside the Bladen Improvement PAC tent at the top of the front lawn of the library.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":587.14,"start":574.45}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"This dispute between Jane and the PAC workers --","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":589.99,"start":587.14}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"it got deep in the weeds --","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":591.73,"start":589.99}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"was over where the PAC set up its tent outside a polling place.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":595.84,"start":591.73}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"In North Carolina, voters can vote curbside.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":598.36,"start":595.84}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"If they have trouble walking, for instance, they can just fill out their ballot right in the car.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":603.23,"start":598.36}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"An election worker will bring it out to them and then bring it back inside once they're done.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":607.84,"start":603.23}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Jane says the PAC had set up its tent right next to the space reserved for the curbside voters to park --","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":614.5,"start":607.84}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"much closer than they're allowed to by law, she says.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":617.9,"start":614.5}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^JANE PAIT^","text":"The cars are pulling up right there.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":621.25,"start":617.9}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"She's moving a coffee mug around the table in front of us to show me how close the PAC tent was to the people who are pulling up to the curb to vote.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":629.77,"start":621.25}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^JANE PAIT^","text":"And the people from the tent are having easy access and they're taking it.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":633.82,"start":629.77}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"The problem was, she says, they were handing out the voter guides too close to where people actually vote.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":640.21,"start":633.82}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Jane raises this with one of the PAC volunteers, apparently, and he disagrees.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":644.65,"start":640.21}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"And they start giving people conflicting directions about where to park their cars for the curbside voting, like warring valets at a hotel.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":653.2,"start":644.65}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"All the while, she says, PAC workers were continuing to hand out the PAC's voter guide, which is fine, sort of.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":661,"start":653.2}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^JANE PAIT^","text":"You may take their voter guide.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":663.25,"start":661}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^JANE PAIT^","text":"I've actually taken Democrat voter guides.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":666.94,"start":663.25}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^JANE PAIT^","text":"Did I use them?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":668.56,"start":666.94}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^JANE PAIT^","text":"No, because they're not pro-life.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":670.888,"start":668.56}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ZOE CHACE^","text":"Right.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":671.68,"start":670.888}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^JANE PAIT^","text":"But the point of the whole thing is, I might take something from someone and not use it.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":678.25,"start":671.68}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^JANE PAIT^","text":"That's my choice.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":679.31,"start":678.25}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^JANE PAIT^","text":"Or I might use it.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":680.56,"start":679.31}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^JANE PAIT^","text":"OK.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":681.91,"start":680.56}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^JANE PAIT^","text":"If the tent is here and you're right there within one step --","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":688.38,"start":681.91}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^JANE PAIT^","text":"I'm literally one step --","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":690.38,"start":688.38}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ZOE CHACE^","text":"OK.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":691.06,"start":690.38}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^JANE PAIT^","text":"-- OK, they can see everything you're doing, they can hear every word that's said.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":695.67,"start":691.06}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^JANE PAIT^","text":"And somebody comes from your community around there and says, this is what we want you to do.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":702.42,"start":695.67}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^JANE PAIT^","text":"And they stand right there while you do it.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":705.75,"start":702.42}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^JANE PAIT^","text":"Or they stick their arm inside the car and help you do it.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":710.26,"start":705.75}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^JANE PAIT^","text":"Where's your choice?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":712.27,"start":710.26}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^JANE PAIT^","text":"You tell me where the choice is.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":714.28,"start":712.27}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"To picture this, when Jane is saying somebody comes from your community, she means the Black community, like Black voters pulling up in a car and Black PAC workers coming up to them with a voter guide, hovering by the car window while someone's voting, just being too close.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":731.02,"start":714.28}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"It's pressure, she thinks, that could manipulate the voter to vote the PAC's way.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":735.7,"start":731.02}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"What's unclear to me with Jane's story, though, is if that manipulation is what's actually happening.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":742.15,"start":735.7}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ZOE CHACE^","text":"Well, here's what I would say.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":744.43,"start":742.15}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ZOE CHACE^","text":"That sounds very intimidating if you don't want it.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":747.16,"start":744.43}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^JANE PAIT^","text":"Exactly.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":748.57,"start":747.16}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^JANE PAIT^","text":"And I was going to say this that my husband Mike would say to you.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":752.65,"start":748.57}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^JANE PAIT^","text":"He had worked for a judge for a good while.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":754.93,"start":752.65}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^JANE PAIT^","text":"And he said that people of certain community will come in.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":762.82,"start":754.93}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"OK, now we're switching to something she says her husband saw when he was working as a poll judge, how people from the PAC would interact with voters inside the polling place when they provided voter assistance.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":774.55,"start":762.82}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Now, voter assistance is a thing at the polls.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":777.79,"start":774.55}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Voters with certain disabilities, for example, they're allowed to have someone help them inside the voting booth.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":784.06,"start":777.79}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"But as Jane's husband saw it, PAC members were practically forcing voters to let them help.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":790.09,"start":784.06}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^JANE PAIT^","text":"And there'd be somebody following them.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":792.46,"start":790.09}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^JANE PAIT^","text":"I need to help you to vote.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":793.75,"start":792.46}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^JANE PAIT^","text":"I need to help you vote, all the way in the -- let me help you vote, all the way into the precinct.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":799.48,"start":793.75}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^JANE PAIT^","text":"And the person may or may not agree.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":802.84,"start":799.48}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^JANE PAIT^","text":"But if they disagree, they turn around and say, I don't need you to help me vote.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":808.06,"start":802.84}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^JANE PAIT^","text":"I need to help you vote.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":809.35,"start":808.06}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^JANE PAIT^","text":"I don't need you to help me vote.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":811.882,"start":809.35}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ZOE CHACE^","text":"Black people, that's what you're saying.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":814.09,"start":811.882}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^JANE PAIT^","text":"Well, it's PAC people.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":815.548,"start":814.09}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^JANE PAIT^","text":"Yeah, PAC people.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":817.81,"start":815.548}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^JANE PAIT^","text":"The PAC had them out there to help.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":820.42,"start":817.81}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^JANE PAIT^","text":"And they would follow the people into the precinct.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":830.47,"start":820.42}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ZOE CHACE^","text":"I guess, like I was saying, that sounds very intimidating --","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":834.957,"start":830.47}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^JANE PAIT^","text":"It is intimidating.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":836.29,"start":834.957}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ZOE CHACE^","text":"-- if you don't want it.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":837.832,"start":836.29}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^JANE PAIT^","text":"If you don't want it, it's intimidating.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":841.72,"start":837.832}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"The reason I keep saying if you don't want it to Jane is because she's making this obvious leap in these incidents where she goes from seeing rules possibly being bent or broken to assuming how voters were feeling about what she says was happening, that they were feeling bullied.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":860.2,"start":841.72}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Jane thinks what's happening at the polls, the dynamic, is that PAC workers intimidate Black voters into accepting assistance, whether they need it or not, in order to control how they vote.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":872.62,"start":860.2}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Even if the voter asks for help, it's not legit to Jane because you can't know if there's social pressure at work.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":879.13,"start":872.62}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"The way she sees it, voter assistance is more like vote stealing a lot of the time.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":884.66,"start":879.13}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"The person assisting the voter is taking the vote from the voter.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":889.21,"start":884.66}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^JANE PAIT^","text":"Whatever happened to one man, one vote?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":893.68,"start":889.21}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^JANE PAIT^","text":"That takes that and flushes it down the commode.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":896.8,"start":893.68}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^JANE PAIT^","text":"So you may think, well, that looks fairly harmless.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":900.25,"start":896.8}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^JANE PAIT^","text":"They wanted that person in there with them.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":902.89,"start":900.25}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^JANE PAIT^","text":"Did they?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":904.54,"start":902.89}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"So of course, later, I looked for complaints about this, testimony from a voter somewhere saying the PAC assisted them or harassed them, and they didn't want it.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":915.53,"start":904.54}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"I didn't find anything.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":917.26,"start":915.53}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Neither have investigators from the state who have also looked for precisely that.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":922.67,"start":917.26}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"But I think for Jane, the lack of official complaints proves her point.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":926.89,"start":922.67}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"It shows how much control this group is exerting on Black voters at the polls.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":931.72,"start":926.89}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^JANE PAIT^","text":"And you know this is human.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":934.33,"start":931.72}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^JANE PAIT^","text":"This is human stuff.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":935.89,"start":934.33}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^JANE PAIT^","text":"You live in a community, and you're a tight community.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":940.09,"start":935.89}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Again, she means the Black community.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":942.31,"start":940.09}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^JANE PAIT^","text":"And this whole community is working toward a goal.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":946.17,"start":942.31}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^JANE PAIT^","text":"Say it's a political goal --","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":947.458,"start":946.17}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^JANE PAIT^","text":"I don't care what you call it -- working toward a goal.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":949.75,"start":947.458}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^JANE PAIT^","text":"And you're not going to go along with it.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":952.3,"start":949.75}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^JANE PAIT^","text":"And you're going to have however many people want you to go along with them mad at you, right?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":956.74,"start":952.3}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^JANE PAIT^","text":"OK, so there you go.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":959.51,"start":956.74}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"I think this is at the heart of a lot of people's complaints about the Bladen Improvement PAC, their suspicion of the group --","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":966.53,"start":959.51}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"the idea that the PAC keeps black people from making their own choices as voters.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":971.66,"start":966.53}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[MUSIC]","text":"","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":975.98,"start":971.66}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[MUSIC]","text":"So there's the social pressure, but there's also this other possible coercion I heard about, another theory on how the Bladen Improvement PAC persuades Black voters to vote along with the PAC, something more direct.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":993.44,"start":979.34}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^MARY CATHERINE MAZUR^","text":"During my time as a grader, I noticed a lot of things that went on.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":998.66,"start":993.44}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"This is Mary Catherine Mazur.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1001.06,"start":998.66}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"We're on the floor of her living room, with her toddler scooting all around us.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1005.2,"start":1001.06}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Like Jane, Mary Catherine is an elections person --","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1008.08,"start":1005.2}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"white, works at polling sites, done that for years.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1012.04,"start":1008.08}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"And like Jane, Mary Catherine also has suspicions about the PAC.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1016.57,"start":1012.04}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Mary Catherine told me about one scene she witnessed.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1019.82,"start":1016.57}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"It was at a polling place a few years ago.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1022.39,"start":1019.82}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"All the candidate signs were clustered out front.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1024.91,"start":1022.39}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"The tents were around to shade the campaign workers from the sun.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1028.78,"start":1024.91}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"And she'd see Black voters walking by on their way to vote inside.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1032.947,"start":1028.78}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^MARY CATHERINE MAZUR^","text":"These people were --","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1034.78,"start":1032.947}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^MARY CATHERINE MAZUR^","text":"it was like they were lured into this tent.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1039.609,"start":1034.78}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^MARY CATHERINE MAZUR^","text":"And what would happen is, let's say John Doe came up just to vote.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1050.94,"start":1039.609}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^MARY CATHERINE MAZUR^","text":"They were given a piece of paper.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1053.01,"start":1050.94}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^MARY CATHERINE MAZUR^","text":"And they would fold it up.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1056.79,"start":1053.01}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^MARY CATHERINE MAZUR^","text":"And I can't remember if they were lime green or orange, but they stood out.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1061.09,"start":1056.79}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ZOE CHACE^","text":"I'm going to go ahead and assume that this is the Bladen County Improvement Association sample ballot that you're talking about.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1070.38,"start":1061.09}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^MARY CATHERINE MAZUR^","text":"That was the tent that I saw.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1072.66,"start":1070.38}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"The sample ballot, it's the PAC's voter guide.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1075.6,"start":1072.66}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"It's the same thing Jane Pait saw PAC workers giving out.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1078.84,"start":1075.6}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"It's made up to look like a real ballot, but it's a different color.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1082.26,"start":1078.84}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"All the little ovals are filled in next to the candidates that the PAC is supporting.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1087.27,"start":1082.26}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"PAC workers at the polling place try to give a sample ballot to most Black voters walking up to vote.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1094.01,"start":1087.27}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Mary Catherine knows the sample ballot is legal.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1097.32,"start":1094.01}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"She knows it's allowed.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1098.97,"start":1097.32}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"But the way people were handling it, they take the sample ballot into the voting booth, and then when they'd come out --","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1105.753,"start":1098.97}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^MARY CATHERINE MAZUR^","text":"I'd notice that some people would throw theirs away and not turn it back in.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1109.92,"start":1105.753}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^MARY CATHERINE MAZUR^","text":"And I saw several people go through the trash cans to get those sheets out, like poll workers for the PAC, jumping up and rifling through the trash to retrieve the ballots.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1125.42,"start":1109.92}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^MARY CATHERINE MAZUR^","text":"Then I found out they were actually numbered, so they had these things numbered.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1129.77,"start":1125.42}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^MARY CATHERINE MAZUR^","text":"I'm sorry.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1132.35,"start":1129.77}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"At just this moment, Mary Catherine's toddler, Caroline, crawled into my lap and somehow found the off button to my recorder.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1140.51,"start":1132.35}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"So, a quick reset.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1142.43,"start":1140.51}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ZOE CHACE^","text":"OK, so people pulling these sample ballots out of the garbage.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1145.67,"start":1142.43}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^MARY CATHERINE MAZUR^","text":"Right.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1146.96,"start":1145.67}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^MARY CATHERINE MAZUR^","text":"If you did not turn them back into the tent, then they were mad.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1152.11,"start":1146.96}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^MARY CATHERINE MAZUR^","text":"They were like, where's your sheet of paper?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1154.6,"start":1152.11}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^MARY CATHERINE MAZUR^","text":"These sheets of paper were numbered so they knew which one was missing and who had it and where to find it.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1161.04,"start":1154.6}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^MARY CATHERINE MAZUR^","text":"I will not say 100%, but I will say I'm pretty confident that there was something wrapped in the paper.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1177.472,"start":1164.36}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ZOE CHACE^","text":"Like what?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1178.43,"start":1177.472}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ZOE CHACE^","text":"Oh, money?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1181.58,"start":1178.43}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^MARY CATHERINE MAZUR^","text":"I'm not 100%, but there was something that enticed them to go in there and follow the procedures to the tee.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1190.1,"start":1181.58}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"She suspects the PAC may be paying people for their votes.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1193.47,"start":1190.1}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^MARY CATHERINE MAZUR^","text":"So, things like that go on outside the polling place.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1199.79,"start":1193.47}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^MARY CATHERINE MAZUR^","text":"And the more you sit out there and just look, the more you see.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1203.975,"start":1199.79}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"So we do go out there to see for myself, watch the PAC in action.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1212.78,"start":1207.89}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"And huh, I see what's making these white people so suspicious.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1218.42,"start":1212.78}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"And I think I know why.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1220.49,"start":1218.42}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"That's after the break.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1221.448,"start":1220.49}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^GEORGE MICHAEL COGDELL^","text":"You're still hanging around?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1223.698,"start":1221.448}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ZOE CHACE^","text":"I'm still hanging around.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1225.48,"start":1223.698}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ZOE CHACE^","text":"I'm still trying to get my interviews.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1227.553,"start":1225.48}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^GEORGE MICHAEL COGDELL^","text":"I didn't even have nothing to eat, though.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1242.006,"start":1239.173}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^GEORGE MICHAEL COGDELL^","text":"Whew.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1244.9,"start":1242.006}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"I'm sitting in a truck outside a polling place with Cogdell, George Michael Cogdell --","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1250.58,"start":1244.9}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"goes by Cogdell --","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1252.11,"start":1250.58}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"longtime PAC member.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1253.91,"start":1252.11}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Cogdell has been on the county commission for eight years.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1256.52,"start":1253.91}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"And he's running this year to keep his seat.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1258.98,"start":1256.52}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"We're in the truck to get out of the cold, and I'm trying to ask him about the PAC.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1263.36,"start":1258.98}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"But as voters come up to vote, Cogdell keeps leaping out of the car to talk to them and hand them one of the PAC sample ballots.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1272.48,"start":1263.36}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Then he gets right back in the truck and continues the conversation as though he never left.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1277.494,"start":1272.48}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^GEORGE MICHAEL COGDELL^","text":"But that's the thing that's there.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1279.994,"start":1277.494}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ZOE CHACE^","text":"Wow, what were those?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1281.91,"start":1280.493}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^GEORGE MICHAEL COGDELL^","text":"That's the kind of stuff that I looked at.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1283.55,"start":1281.91}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"For a while, it's like this.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1284.84,"start":1283.55}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"He's out.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1285.34,"start":1284.84}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^GEORGE MICHAEL COGDELL^","text":"Hold on, I gotta talk to Charity right here.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1288.257,"start":1285.34}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ZOE CHACE^","text":"OK.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1289.22,"start":1288.257}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Then he's in.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1290.57,"start":1289.22}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^GEORGE MICHAEL COGDELL^","text":"That's the thing, what I'm saying when they come in.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1294.98,"start":1290.57}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"I'm out here at this polling place because I want to check out how the PAC operates, and do I see the kind of stuff that Jane Pait and Mary Catherine were sure they were seeing?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1305.97,"start":1294.98}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"I didn't think I was going to witness money changing hands out here or something, like out in the open in front of a reporter.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1312.95,"start":1305.97}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"No, and I do not.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1313.98,"start":1312.95}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^GEORGE MICHAEL COGDELL^","text":"Hey.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1315.23,"start":1313.98}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"But watching out the window, every time Cogdell goes out and I get right away that for people who are suspicious of the PAC, the way Cogdell and other PAC people handle the sample ballot could confirm their suspicions that something's not right.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1332.75,"start":1315.23}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Cogdell only approaches Black voters.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1335.42,"start":1332.75}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"He goes straight up to them, gets close, and he's clutching something secret seeming, tight in his fists.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1341.135,"start":1335.42}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"He hands the sample ballot over a little surreptitiously, a quick hand-to-hand pass like a note in school.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1348.2,"start":1341.135}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"And then I see the voters take the queue and also treat it surreptitiously, folding it into a square, slipping it into a pocket, taking it inside, and then doing a hand-to-hand pass right back to the PAC workers once they come out of the polling place.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1363.38,"start":1348.2}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Finally, I jump out of the car, too.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1366.272,"start":1363.38}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"I want to know what they're saying.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1367.73,"start":1366.272}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"So I follow Cogdell over to a voter, an older Black guy in a nice suit.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1372.89,"start":1367.73}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Cogdell's tall, kind of flappy.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1375.11,"start":1372.89}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"He often towers over people when they talk.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1377.43,"start":1375.11}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^GEORGE MICHAEL COGDELL^","text":"How are you doing?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1377.85,"start":1377.43}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^GEORGE MICHAEL COGDELL^","text":"I'm Cogdell.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1378.552,"start":1377.85}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^SPEAKER^","text":"Hey there, Cogdell.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1379.802,"start":1378.552}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"He compliments the voter on his smart-looking hat, then unfolds the ballot shaped purple sheet of paper.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1386.47,"start":1379.802}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"\"What do you got there?\"","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1387.47,"start":1386.47}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"the voter says.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1388.55,"start":1387.47}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"\"Democratic ticket?\"","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1390.35,"start":1388.55}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"\"Yeah,\" Cogdell says.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1391.79,"start":1390.35}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"\"And I'm not going to tell you what to do.\"","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1394.49,"start":1391.79}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Cogdell starts pointing out names on the ballot, the people the PAC has endorsed.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1398.713,"start":1394.49}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^GEORGE MICHAEL COGDELL^","text":"Now here we go here.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1400.63,"start":1398.713}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^GEORGE MICHAEL COGDELL^","text":"That's Joseph Biden.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1402.047,"start":1400.63}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Now here we go.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1403.13,"start":1402.047}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"That's Joseph Biden, Cogdell says.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1406.1,"start":1403.13}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"He points down the row to district attorney, then the Senate race.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1409.79,"start":1406.1}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"That's a Black young lady, Erica.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1411.62,"start":1409.79}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"That's a white guy, Cunningham.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1413.3,"start":1411.62}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^GEORGE MICHAEL COGDELL^","text":"This is a Black young lady, Erica.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1414.91,"start":1413.3}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^GEORGE MICHAEL COGDELL^","text":"That's a white guy, Cunningham.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1416.22,"start":1414.91}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"And so on, all the way down the purple ballot.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1419.09,"start":1416.22}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"This candidate lives over in Chickenfoot Road.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1421.64,"start":1419.09}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"That candidate's been there forever.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1423.32,"start":1421.64}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"She's a white lady.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1424.34,"start":1423.32}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"She's fine.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1425.45,"start":1424.34}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^GEORGE MICHAEL COGDELL^","text":"Then you got Albert Kirby.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1427.7,"start":1425.45}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^GEORGE MICHAEL COGDELL^","text":"That's a Black laywer, and that's Martin Denny Now he ran last time.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1432.23,"start":1427.7}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Cogdell flips over the sheet of paper, points to the county commissioner's race, the race Cogdell himself is running in.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1439.67,"start":1432.23}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^GEORGE MICHAEL COGDELL^","text":"Then on the back, back here, that's me.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1443.66,"start":1439.67}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^GEORGE MICHAEL COGDELL^","text":"Now if you want to take that in, then you can take it in and then use it however you want to deal with it.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1446.51,"start":1443.66}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Now if you want to take that in, you can take that in and use it however you want to deal with it.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1450.55,"start":1446.51}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^GEORGE MICHAEL COGDELL^","text":"Your ballot is going to look just like this.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1453.467,"start":1450.55}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^GEORGE MICHAEL COGDELL^","text":"The only thing about it when you go in there, yours will be white, on a white sheet of paper.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1457.46,"start":1453.467}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^GEORGE MICHAEL COGDELL^","text":"But it'll look just like that.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1458.57,"start":1457.46}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^GEORGE MICHAEL COGDELL^","text":"But now if you want to take that with you, take it on in with you.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1460.49,"start":1458.57}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^SPEAKER^","text":"OK.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1461.073,"start":1460.49}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^GEORGE MICHAEL COGDELL^","text":"And when you get in there, all you got to do is open it up and you look at what you've got.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1466.06,"start":1461.073}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^GEORGE MICHAEL COGDELL^","text":"Now when you get through with that, let me get that back when you get ready to come out.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1468.03,"start":1466.06}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^SPEAKER^","text":"I will.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1468.79,"start":1468.03}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^GEORGE MICHAEL COGDELL^","text":"What's your last name?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1469.52,"start":1468.79}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^GEORGE MICHAEL COGDELL^","text":"Richardson?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1470.02,"start":1469.52}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^SPEAKER^","text":"Mm-hmm.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1470.81,"start":1470.02}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^GEORGE MICHAEL COGDELL^","text":"Are you kin to Roberts?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1473.36,"start":1470.81}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^SPEAKER^","text":"I'm the middle boy.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1474.89,"start":1473.36}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^SPEAKER^","text":"Rob's the oldest, I'm the middle, and then Kenny.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1477.617,"start":1474.89}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^GEORGE MICHAEL COGDELL^","text":"I hope you can give me a vote, if you can.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1480.45,"start":1477.617}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"I hope you can give me a vote if you can.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1483.77,"start":1480.45}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"I've watched Cogdell give the same spiel a few times now.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1488.09,"start":1483.77}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"And that is always how these exchanges end with those three elements.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1492.23,"start":1488.09}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Please vote for me.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1493.67,"start":1492.23}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Don't I know someone you're related to?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1496.28,"start":1493.67}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"And be sure to give the sample ballot back when you're done.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1500.3,"start":1496.28}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"I did not see anyone throw away their sample ballot or see PAC workers scrounge around in the trash for it, like Mary Catherine described.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1508.94,"start":1500.3}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"I definitely saw voters give the ballot right back after voting, like Cogdell asked.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1514.46,"start":1508.94}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"It's true that the PAC workers and the voters are very precious about it, like it's a classified document.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1521.15,"start":1514.46}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"And it looks weird, but there's a clear explanation.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1525.44,"start":1521.15}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^HORACE MUNN^","text":"If we don't pick them up, they're compromised.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1528.05,"start":1525.44}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Back in the PACs headquarters, the concrete, echoey building, Horace Munn, the PAC president, tells me that a fundamental part of running this PAC is tightly guarded the sample ballot.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1539.6,"start":1528.05}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Horace says he's seen people steal the PAC's ballot and use it against them.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1544.515,"start":1539.6}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^HORACE MUNN^","text":"Someone has to take the ballot.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1546.53,"start":1544.515}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^HORACE MUNN^","text":"They'll go and burn a copy, using the same color paper, and start issuing them out to minorities.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1552.915,"start":1546.53}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ZOE CHACE^","text":"Like this is from the Black PAC that you support, but actually, it's not really.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1556.79,"start":1552.915}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^HORACE MUNN^","text":"Correct.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1557.748,"start":1556.79}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Horace says in 2010, when he took over, people were putting out fake copies of the Bladen Improvement PAC ballot to mislead PAC voters --","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1566.51,"start":1557.748}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Black voters.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1567.53,"start":1566.51}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^HORACE MUNN^","text":"We'd get guys in the organization that were colluding with the whites and would come in and get the information and would get a copy of the ballot and actually change the ballot when I first started.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1579.11,"start":1567.53}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^HORACE MUNN^","text":"That's why I changed the concept and the process.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1582.41,"start":1579.11}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Horace says over the years, he's seen a few fakes.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1585.65,"start":1582.41}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"So now he keeps extra vigilance over these ballots.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1589.37,"start":1585.65}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^HORACE MUNN^","text":"I don't give out the ballots.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1591.44,"start":1589.37}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^HORACE MUNN^","text":"I only give them to the poll workers.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1593.87,"start":1591.44}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^HORACE MUNN^","text":"And the ballots are --","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1595.85,"start":1593.87}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^HORACE MUNN^","text":"you won't know what color they are until we start.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1598.52,"start":1595.85}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^HORACE MUNN^","text":"They're in a certain color.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1600.65,"start":1598.52}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^HORACE MUNN^","text":"The writing on it is done meticulously.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1603.8,"start":1600.65}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^HORACE MUNN^","text":"Any time I thought it might be compromised, I switched the colors.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1607.46,"start":1603.8}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^HORACE MUNN^","text":"Always on the day of election, it's never the same color we used for early voting.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1611.63,"start":1607.46}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^HORACE MUNN^","text":"Never.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1613.25,"start":1611.63}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Talking to Horace about the sample ballot, I'm like, oh, there is an entire circle of suspicion going on.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1620.54,"start":1613.25}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Horace thinks there are people in Bladen who are actively out to get him and his PAC, like that his opponents -- white people mainly --","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1628.37,"start":1620.54}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"are going to mess with the sample ballot, because they have before.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1632.25,"start":1628.37}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"So the PAC workers and voters treat the sample ballot secretively.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1637.07,"start":1632.25}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"That then looks especially suspicious to white people, who are already on the lookout for suspicious activity by the PAC.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1644.42,"start":1637.07}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"The suspicion on the one side increases the suspicion on the other.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1648.76,"start":1644.42}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"As for voter assistance or the PAC coercing or intimidating Black voters, like what Jane Pait told me about, I didn't see any evidence of that either.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1658.48,"start":1648.76}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"I've been in Bladen for three elections now.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1660.94,"start":1658.48}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"And over the days I spent at the polling sites, I only saw one voter ever request assistance from the PAC.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1666.85,"start":1660.94}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"And once I saw a PAC worker offer it and get a polite no thanks in return.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1671.98,"start":1666.85}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"I didn't see anything like what Jane described to me, the crowding up on voters, trying to get into the voting booth with them.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1680.14,"start":1671.98}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Obviously, it's hard for me, an outsider white reporter, to say whether or not Black voters felt social pressure to vote the way the PAC wants them to vote.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1690.48,"start":1680.14}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"But I've talked with a fair number of Black voters in Bladen, and not everyone likes the PAC, but no one ever told me they felt forced into voting with the PAC.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1700.23,"start":1690.48}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Instead, what I saw over the course of three elections in Bladen County is that a lot of Black voters in Bladen want to vote the same way, to vote with one voice.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1710.46,"start":1700.23}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"And there's a reason for that, of course.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1713.44,"start":1710.46}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^GEORGE MICHAEL COGDELL^","text":"It is very challenging here in Bladen County.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1716.61,"start":1713.44}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^GEORGE MICHAEL COGDELL^","text":"This is a challenging county.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1719.25,"start":1716.61}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Cogdell and I were talking again in his truck during a slow period at the polls.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1724.39,"start":1719.25}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"I was asking him how he came to join the Improvement Association.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1728.82,"start":1724.39}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Something I love about talking to Cogdell is he will give the longest answer possible to any question, like someone taking the absolute longest route possible to get to a destination.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1740.13,"start":1728.82}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Not to torture the analogy, but it's like at the end of these long journeys of answers, you get to see the whole place.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1747.12,"start":1740.13}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Keep in mind, my question was, how did you join the association?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1751.71,"start":1747.12}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^GEORGE MICHAEL COGDELL^","text":"And when I came here, certain things there --","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1757.632,"start":1751.71}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^GEORGE MICHAEL COGDELL^","text":"how would I say it?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1759.84,"start":1757.632}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^GEORGE MICHAEL COGDELL^","text":"Certain things that were there and here, I had seen it done years ago, things like getting groceries on credit in the grocery store.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1773.61,"start":1759.84}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^GEORGE MICHAEL COGDELL^","text":"That was something that I thought that had died.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1777.12,"start":1773.61}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^GEORGE MICHAEL COGDELL^","text":"But they was here in this area doing that.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1780,"start":1777.12}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^GEORGE MICHAEL COGDELL^","text":"You follow what I'm saying?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1781.45,"start":1780}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ZOE CHACE^","text":"What's the big deal about getting credit at a grocery store?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1783.94,"start":1781.45}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^GEORGE MICHAEL COGDELL^","text":"No, this is the thing.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1785.15,"start":1783.94}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^GEORGE MICHAEL COGDELL^","text":"It was something people used to do.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1786.66,"start":1785.15}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^GEORGE MICHAEL COGDELL^","text":"You got to understand.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1788.07,"start":1786.66}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^GEORGE MICHAEL COGDELL^","text":"It used to be when people would sharecrop and work, that's how they bought their food.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1794.34,"start":1788.07}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ZOE CHACE^","text":"You saw that, and you were like, people are basically in a sharecropping situation.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1798.52,"start":1794.34}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^GEORGE MICHAEL COGDELL^","text":"Yeah, same thing.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1799.83,"start":1798.52}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^GEORGE MICHAEL COGDELL^","text":"They work, and they go get the food on credit.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1801.6,"start":1799.83}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^GEORGE MICHAEL COGDELL^","text":"The man would say, you're going to get all you want to eat today, and he would put it on the bill.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1805.683,"start":1801.6}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^GEORGE MICHAEL COGDELL^","text":"And that was a way of keeping you indebted to him all the time.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1808.75,"start":1805.683}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^GEORGE MICHAEL COGDELL^","text":"I couldn't understand because the prices were so damn elevated.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1813.14,"start":1808.75}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^GEORGE MICHAEL COGDELL^","text":"Why would you go?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1815.07,"start":1813.14}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ZOE CHACE^","text":"I mean, I understand that it's not how you would like to live your life.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1819.81,"start":1815.07}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ZOE CHACE^","text":"But it seems like you were worried that other people were living their life that way.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1823.605,"start":1819.81}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^GEORGE MICHAEL COGDELL^","text":"That's what I'm saying.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1823.98,"start":1823.605}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^GEORGE MICHAEL COGDELL^","text":"They needed to understand, be independent.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1825.81,"start":1823.98}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^GEORGE MICHAEL COGDELL^","text":"Go shop at the store.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1827.35,"start":1825.81}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^GEORGE MICHAEL COGDELL^","text":"Why do you go buy a piece of meat and pay $5 for it because you get it on credit and think that's something good, and you can go get the same piece of meat from the damn food line for $2.50.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1840.08,"start":1827.35}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^GEORGE MICHAEL COGDELL^","text":"But then I kind of found out the reason they were doing it, they had that guy so indebted to this man that they could never get enough money to do it.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1847.38,"start":1840.08}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^GEORGE MICHAEL COGDELL^","text":"Because all their money went to him.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1848.95,"start":1847.38}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ZOE CHACE^","text":"And so what did that have to do with the association?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1851.7,"start":1848.95}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^GEORGE MICHAEL COGDELL^","text":"Those were the kind of things that we were trying to change.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1854.18,"start":1851.7}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ZOE CHACE^","text":"OK.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1854.928,"start":1854.18}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[MUSIC]","text":"","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1858.84,"start":1854.928}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"At the time, this was before the PAC was formed.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1862.05,"start":1858.84}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Almost the entire county government was white.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1864.96,"start":1862.05}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"County commissioners, school board overwhelmingly white, and had been pretty much ever since the end of Reconstruction.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1872.82,"start":1864.96}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"And it's not that Black candidates wouldn't run.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1875.59,"start":1872.82}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"It's that they could almost never win.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1878.04,"start":1875.59}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"I learned this political science term while reporting this story, which is racially polarized voting.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1885.39,"start":1878.04}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"And it perfectly describes the politics of Bladen County and the existence of the PAC.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1890.68,"start":1885.39}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"It means what it sounds like -- voting is divided along racial lines.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1894.87,"start":1890.68}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"White voters vote for white candidates.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1897.42,"start":1894.87}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Black voters prefer to vote for Black.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1899.82,"start":1897.42}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"But it's not always an option.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1902.25,"start":1899.82}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Also, white voters won't even vote for white candidates that are supported by Black people.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1908.55,"start":1902.25}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"This was precisely the scenario in Bladen County when Cogdell got there.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1912.855,"start":1908.55}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"A study done in the mid '80s found that racially polarized voting was persistent and severe in Bladen County.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1920.52,"start":1912.855}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"And because of Bladen's racial demographics -- back then about 60% white, 39% Black --","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1927.09,"start":1920.52}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"majority ruled every time.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1929.34,"start":1927.09}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"A Black candidate could get 90% of the Black vote and still have no chance of winning.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1936.48,"start":1929.34}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"This was how it was until 1987, when a change in the Voting Rights Act made it possible for a few Black leaders in Bladen to sue the county, alleging their vote was utterly diluted.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1949.32,"start":1936.48}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Black voters could not pick a candidate of their choice.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1952.44,"start":1949.32}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"All over the state, county by county, Black leaders in North Carolina were filing lawsuits just like this.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1959.06,"start":1952.44}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Bladen County fought any changes especially hard and then, maybe noticing the tide of history was moving against them, abruptly settled.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1968.34,"start":1959.06}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"And the elections in Bladen changed radically.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1971.7,"start":1968.34}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"The county was cut into three districts with different racial makeups, one being majority Black.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1977.25,"start":1971.7}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"And this allowed Black voters the chance to get some representation in the county.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1982.47,"start":1977.25}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Under the new system, Black voters are usually able to elect a third of the seats for governing bodies like the county commission or the school board if, and only if, Black voters in Bladen did one thing persistently and severely.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1999.36,"start":1982.47}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^GEORGE MICHAEL COGDELL^","text":"Yeah, if you get your people to vote in what they call a block.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2003.17,"start":1999.36}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Voted together as a block with one voice.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2007.25,"start":2003.17}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"If they stuck together, they could get three county commissioners at the top of the county.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2012.32,"start":2007.25}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"That is why the Bladen Improvement PAC formed.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2015.08,"start":2012.32}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"It was created in the wake of that lawsuit to organize Black voters and get those seats, if they could.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2022.63,"start":2015.08}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"And now the Black vote is a player in just about every election in Bladen because of the PAC and its sample ballot.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2030.11,"start":2022.63}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Every election, Bladen Improvement gets as many people as possible to vote along the same lines --","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2036.2,"start":2030.11}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"for a Black candidate or for the candidate who best represents Black interests.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2040.76,"start":2036.2}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"This requires a sometimes unforgiving discipline from the PAC around this cardinal rule --","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2047.69,"start":2040.76}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"don't split the Black vote.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2050.3,"start":2047.69}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"No competition among Black candidates.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2053.36,"start":2050.3}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Cogdell tells me if you're not on the PAC sample ballot and you're Black, you shouldn't be running, period.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2060.15,"start":2053.36}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^GEORGE MICHAEL COGDELL^","text":"If you go out there and flood the market, you're going to have problems.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2064.57,"start":2060.15}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^GEORGE MICHAEL COGDELL^","text":"You see what I'm saying?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2065.57,"start":2064.57}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^GEORGE MICHAEL COGDELL^","text":"It is the way it is.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2066.92,"start":2065.57}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^GEORGE MICHAEL COGDELL^","text":"You can't win.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2068.929,"start":2066.92}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ZOE CHACE^","text":"You can't have too many Black people running for the same seat because then it'll dilute the power of the block.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2074.485,"start":2068.929}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^GEORGE MICHAEL COGDELL^","text":"You will lose every time.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2076.61,"start":2074.485}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"If Black voters don't vote together, if they split over two different Black candidates, say, a white candidate could run up the middle and capture the seat.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2085.34,"start":2076.61}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^GEORGE MICHAEL COGDELL^","text":"That's the reason why sometimes I think the PAC gets a name because we ally together and we try and keep it a consistent block, and we don't deviate from it a lot.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2098.65,"start":2085.34}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"The way the PAC runs is pretty tight and not open to criticism because the piece of turf they've managed to carve out is small.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2108.64,"start":2101.17}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"And the stakes are high.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2110.86,"start":2108.64}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"I don't mean to sound like the PAC does something unusual or exotic.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2115.03,"start":2110.86}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Holding an interest group together with discipline is literally politics.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2120.19,"start":2115.03}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Knowing the specific history of the PAC in this county did help me understand the precarious position the PAC holds in Bladen politics and why they're so urgent about getting Black voters here to vote together, although history, of course, is open to interpretation.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2140.14,"start":2120.19}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^JANE PAIT^","text":"I know the history.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2142.06,"start":2140.14}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^JANE PAIT^","text":"And I know that it took years to overcome all that stuff.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2148.09,"start":2142.06}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"When I was in Jane Pait's dining room talking with her about why she thinks the PAC is cheating, she brought up history, too.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2155.41,"start":2148.09}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^JANE PAIT^","text":"I believe with all my heart this whole problem had its seeds in what happened in North Carolina in the far past with the Jim Crow laws.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2167.65,"start":2155.41}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^JANE PAIT^","text":"And then everybody's trying to make up for it because they realized all that stuff is wrong.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2172.21,"start":2167.65}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^JANE PAIT^","text":"And then you got the '60s happen.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2174.4,"start":2172.21}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^JANE PAIT^","text":"And now everybody's trying to treat people right.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2178.15,"start":2174.4}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^JANE PAIT^","text":"And I'm talking about most of the people in this county --","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2184.93,"start":2178.15}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^JANE PAIT^","text":"I believe I can say this and be right --","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2187.3,"start":2184.93}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^JANE PAIT^","text":"were raised to respect everybody.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2190,"start":2187.3}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^JANE PAIT^","text":"It didn't matter your color, OK?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2192.55,"start":2190}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^JANE PAIT^","text":"Now there were laws on the books that allowed certain businesses to do certain things.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2197.5,"start":2192.55}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Like discriminate against Black people.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2200.15,"start":2197.5}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^JANE PAIT^","text":"And so I think in an effort to not hurt anybody or push back against people that were trying to make their place in the world and gain respect and everything, a lot of things were blanked out that were illegal in this voting stuff, is what I'm saying.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2226.07,"start":2200.15}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Jane's feeling is the people who work at the polls in Bladen County are overcorrecting for all of the sins of the past, voter suppression by whites against Blacks.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2236.99,"start":2226.07}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"They're not holding the Black political group here accountable for the ways they're breaking the rules.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2242.54,"start":2236.99}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^JANE PAIT^","text":"Nobody had the intestinal fortitude to try to change anything because they didn't want to be called bigots.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2250.49,"start":2242.54}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^JANE PAIT^","text":"They wouldn't be told they were trying to impede the vote and all that kind of mess.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2255.47,"start":2250.49}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ZOE CHACE^","text":"There's a history of voter suppression of Black people in North Carolina.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2260.01,"start":2255.47}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ZOE CHACE^","text":"And so you think that sometimes people were just letting things slide because they were afraid that they were replicating that history.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2268.007,"start":2260.01}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^JANE PAIT^","text":"That's right.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2269.09,"start":2268.007}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^JANE PAIT^","text":"The history of voter suppression, I know there was because after Reconstruction and the Northern Army went on back to wherever they came from, there was people who --","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2289.56,"start":2269.09}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^JANE PAIT^","text":"there were Black people who had offices, had been elected, and they were run out of town.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2295.72,"start":2289.56}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^JANE PAIT^","text":"And they were not run out of town in a kind manner either.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2299.67,"start":2295.72}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Jane is referring to a particularly violent period of time for Black Americans in the South after Reconstruction.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2306.78,"start":2299.67}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Jane lives only about an hour from Wilmington, North Carolina, where the Wilmington massacre, a white supremacist coup, took place in 1898, overthrowing elected Black leaders.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2318.03,"start":2306.78}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"White supremacy was the coup leaders' actual slogan.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2321.51,"start":2318.03}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"White people with guns rampaged through the city.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2324.6,"start":2321.51}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Many people were killed.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2325.99,"start":2324.6}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Black politicians, businessmen, journalists were banished from the city.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2330.75,"start":2325.99}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Soon after, state legislators changed the voting laws, ushering in the era of Jim Crow, which essentially stopped Black people from voting for the next 65 years or so.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2342.21,"start":2330.75}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"I don't know precisely how much Jane knows about what happened specifically in 1898 down here, but she has the gist of it.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2350.51,"start":2342.21}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"And she has her view about how that history is history.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2355.5,"start":2350.51}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^JANE PAIT^","text":"But I'm only speaking from my lifetime.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2357.77,"start":2355.5}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^JANE PAIT^","text":"That's all I can talk about.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2359.04,"start":2357.77}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^JANE PAIT^","text":"The only thing I have observed is my lifetime.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2362.45,"start":2359.04}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^JANE PAIT^","text":"When I was at the polls working, everybody was coming to vote.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2366.59,"start":2362.45}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^JANE PAIT^","text":"My Black friends were coming to vote.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2368.36,"start":2366.59}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^JANE PAIT^","text":"My white friends were coming to vote.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2370.79,"start":2368.36}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^JANE PAIT^","text":"My Hispanic friends were coming to vote.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2374.72,"start":2370.79}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^JANE PAIT^","text":"Nobody was telling them they couldn't vote.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2377.83,"start":2374.72}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^JANE PAIT^","text":"Nobody was getting in their way to vote.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2381.61,"start":2377.83}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^JANE PAIT^","text":"And so it never occurred to me to think, oh, we got voter suppression.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2386.23,"start":2381.61}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^JANE PAIT^","text":"So I'm not too sure if it was, who was doing it during my lifetime, who was doing it.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2393.76,"start":2386.23}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^JANE PAIT^","text":"I know there's a history back there.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2396.05,"start":2393.76}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^JANE PAIT^","text":"I know it is.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2398.02,"start":2396.05}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^JANE PAIT^","text":"Hey, people, we have moved on.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2401.61,"start":2398.02}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^JANE PAIT^","text":"We need to move on.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2404.51,"start":2401.61}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^JANE PAIT^","text":"Start trusting each other and quit fighting.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2407.72,"start":2404.51}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^JANE PAIT^","text":"What is the deal?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2408.83,"start":2407.72}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^JANE PAIT^","text":"Everybody, just go vote.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2410.015,"start":2408.83}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"When Jane talks about voter suppression, what it is, it's very literal, almost like if there's not a big burly guy at the polls hurling people into bushes who are trying to vote, then no one's being prevented from voting.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2426,"start":2412.59}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"But of course, there are other ways to prevent people from voting.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2429.96,"start":2426}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"It can be done with laws and procedures, something like having only one polling place in Elizabethtown far from where a majority of Black people in the county live.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2439.35,"start":2429.96}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"That's something that could keep a significant number of Black people from voting, without anyone having to get in anyone's face at the polls.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2447.36,"start":2439.35}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Right now, as I speak these words, there are a slew of state legislatures working on new voting bills that make it harder to vote.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2456.22,"start":2447.36}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"These laws are being talked about so much right now.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2458.91,"start":2456.22}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Some of the changes being proposed, cutting back on early voting days, not letting voters vote at a precinct, requiring certain kinds of ID to vote, a bunch more stuff like that that all add up to making voting trickier.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2473.19,"start":2458.91}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"So many elections experts have said these laws are little more than voter suppression, targeting Black voters specifically.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2481.17,"start":2473.19}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Jane and I didn't talk about that stuff, though, mainly because sitting at her dining room table with all her files laid out in front of me, I was still struggling to understand what exactly was her evidence that the Bladen Improvement Association PAC cheats.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2497.79,"start":2481.17}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Arguments about parking spaces at curbside voting, insinuations that Black voters are being somehow controlled by the PAC --","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2506.48,"start":2497.79}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"it's not evidence, it's just suspicion.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2510.06,"start":2506.48}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"But no matter, because I think a lot of people in Bladen County think Black people are getting a pass now because of past wrongs.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2518.4,"start":2510.06}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Or they see the PAC motivating large numbers of Black people to act in unison, and it just looks fishy to them.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2525.91,"start":2518.4}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Whatever the reason, they're just so ready to believe the PAC is cheating.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2530.97,"start":2525.91}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"And that creates an environment where any one of the many accusations that are thrown at the PAC can take hold and grow.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2539.37,"start":2530.97}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"And even a provably false accusation can be turned into a powerful weapon and be used to tactical advantage by their enemies.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2549.4,"start":2539.37}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"That's next time on The Improvement Association.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2552.415,"start":2549.4}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[MUSIC]","text":"","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2556.375,"start":2552.415}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[MUSIC]","text":"The Improvement Association is produced and edited by Nancy Updike and me.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2579.37,"start":2574.21}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[MUSIC]","text":"Neil Drumming is our managing editor.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2581.32,"start":2579.37}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[MUSIC]","text":"Julie Snyder is executive editor.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2583.3,"start":2581.32}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[MUSIC]","text":"Additional editing by Sarah Koenig and Ira Glass.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2586.48,"start":2583.3}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[MUSIC]","text":"R.L. Nave is our editorial consultant.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2589.03,"start":2586.48}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[MUSIC]","text":"Fact-checking and research by Ben Phelan.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2591.4,"start":2589.03}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[MUSIC]","text":"Music supervision and mixing by Phoebe Wang.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2594.22,"start":2591.4}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[MUSIC]","text":"Amy Pedulla is our associate producer.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2596.47,"start":2594.22}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[MUSIC]","text":"Ndeye Thioubou is the supervising producer.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2599.35,"start":2596.47}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[MUSIC]","text":"Original music composed by Kwame Brandt-Pierce.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2602.89,"start":2599.35}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[MUSIC]","text":"Additional support from the staff at This American Life, including Emanuele Berry, Julie Whitaker, Cassie Howley, Seth Lind, and Frances Swanson.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2611.44,"start":2602.89}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[MUSIC]","text":"At The New York Times, Sam Dolnick, Lauren Jackson, Elizabeth Davis Moore, Alena Cerro, and Nora Keller.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2618.46,"start":2611.44}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[MUSIC]","text":"Special thanks to Delilah Blanks, G.K. Butterfield, Mary Glendinning, Patrick Gannon, Noah Grant, Alex L. Hess III, Ryan Koresko at WECT, Morgan Kousser, Josh Lawson, Reginald Speight, Christopher Williams, Jim Wall and Leslie Winner.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2632.32,"start":2618.46}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[MUSIC]","text":"The Improvement Association is produced by Serial Productions and The New York Times.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2643.92,"start":2632.32}}]},"credit":"","fileUrl":"https:\u002F\u002Fnyt.simplecastaudio.com\u002Fd7b66137-c66c-4a78-a832-79703f55da09\u002Fepisodes\u002F5e0c9579-1e27-41fc-ac86-62dc631325c0\u002Faudio\u002F128\u002Fdefault.mp3?awCollectionId=d7b66137-c66c-4a78-a832-79703f55da09&awEpisodeId=5e0c9579-1e27-41fc-ac86-62dc631325c0","firstPublished":"2021-04-15T09:55:05.000Z","headline":{"__typename":"CreativeWorkHeadline","default":"Listen to Chapter Two."},"id":"QXVkaW86bnl0Oi8vYXVkaW8vZDVhZmRhYzItM2JiMi01N2IxLTllNTUtMDg4ZGQ1YjRhNWRj","length":2767,"podcastSeries":{"__typename":"AudioPodcastSeries","image":{"__typename":"Image","crops":[{"__typename":"ImageCrop","renditions":[{"__typename":"ImageRendition","height":75,"name":"thumbStandard","url":"https:\u002F\u002Fstatic01.nyt.com\u002Fimages\u002F2021\u002F02\u002F17\u002Fpodcasts\u002Ftia-serial-albumartwork\u002Ftia-serial-albumartwork-thumbStandard.png","width":75},{"__typename":"ImageRendition","height":150,"name":"thumbLarge","url":"https:\u002F\u002Fstatic01.nyt.com\u002Fimages\u002F2021\u002F02\u002F17\u002Fpodcasts\u002Ftia-serial-albumartwork\u002Ftia-serial-albumartwork-thumbLarge.png","width":150}]}],"id":"SW1hZ2U6bnl0Oi8vaW1hZ2UvYTY1NTkxMGItZjVhZC01ZGZkLThmMTMtZDQ0NTNlMTAzNTRk"},"name":"The-Improvement-Association","summary":"TKTKTKTKTKTKTKTKTKTKTKTKTKTKTK","title":"The Improvement Association"},"promotionalHeadline":"Listen to Chapter Two.","section":{"__typename":"Section","id":"U2VjdGlvbjpueXQ6Ly9zZWN0aW9uLzExMDc5OTg3LWFlOGQtNWY1Zi04YzJlLThjNjZkMzM3ZDJiYQ==","name":"podcasts"},"sourceId":"100000007696880","summary":"Suspicion breeds suspicion in Bladen County.","uri":"nyt:\u002F\u002Faudio\u002Fd5afdac2-3bb2-57b1-9e55-088dd5b4a5dc"}},{"__typename":"Dropzone","adsDesktop":false,"adsDesktopHoldout":false,"adsHybrid":true,"adsMobile":true,"adsMobileHoldout":true,"bad":false,"index":6},{"__typename":"ParagraphBlock","content":[{"__typename":"TextInline","formats":[],"text":"Zoe talks to people in North Carolina who believe the Bladen Improvement PAC has been cheating for years. She tries to get beyond the rumors and into specifics; in the process, she comes face to face with the intense suspicion and scrutiny leveled against the organization. In the middle of another election, Zoe follows members of the PAC to watch how they operate and tries to make sense of all these allegations against them."}],"textAlign":"LEFT"},{"__typename":"Dropzone","adsDesktop":false,"adsDesktopHoldout":false,"adsHybrid":false,"adsMobile":false,"adsMobileHoldout":false,"bad":true,"index":7},{"__typename":"ImageBlock","media":{"__typename":"Image","altText":"","caption":{"__typename":"TextOnlyDocumentBlock","content":[{"__typename":"ParagraphBlock","content":[{"__typename":"TextInline","formats":[],"text":"In this series, the reporter Zoe Chace describes Bladen County’s notorious case of election fraud from 2018 as “individual people, in a tight-knit place, using their relationships to either make money or take revenge. Or both.”"}]}],"text":"In this series, the reporter Zoe Chace describes Bladen County’s notorious case of election fraud from 2018 as “individual people, in a tight-knit place, using their relationships to either make money or take revenge. Or both.”"},"credit":"Jeremy M. Lange for The New York Times","crops":[{"__typename":"ImageCrop","renditions":[{"__typename":"ImageRendition","height":480,"name":"articleLarge","url":"https:\u002F\u002Fstatic01.nyt.com\u002Fimages\u002F2021\u002F04\u002F07\u002Fpodcasts\u002Ftia-scene-3\u002Ftia-scene-3-articleLarge.jpg","width":600},{"__typename":"ImageRendition","height":500,"name":"popup","url":"https:\u002F\u002Fstatic01.nyt.com\u002Fimages\u002F2021\u002F04\u002F07\u002Fpodcasts\u002Ftia-scene-3\u002Ftia-scene-3-popup.jpg","width":625},{"__typename":"ImageRendition","height":819,"name":"jumbo","url":"https:\u002F\u002Fstatic01.nyt.com\u002Fimages\u002F2021\u002F04\u002F07\u002Fpodcasts\u002Ftia-scene-3\u002Ftia-scene-3-jumbo.jpg","width":1024},{"__typename":"ImageRendition","height":1638,"name":"superJumbo","url":"https:\u002F\u002Fstatic01.nyt.com\u002Fimages\u002F2021\u002F04\u002F07\u002Fpodcasts\u002Ftia-scene-3\u002Ftia-scene-3-superJumbo.jpg","width":2048}]},{"__typename":"ImageCrop","renditions":[{"__typename":"ImageRendition","height":150,"name":"thumbLarge","url":"https:\u002F\u002Fstatic01.nyt.com\u002Fimages\u002F2021\u002F04\u002F07\u002Fpodcasts\u002Ftia-scene-3\u002Ftia-scene-3-thumbLarge.jpg","width":150}]},{"__typename":"ImageCrop","renditions":[{"__typename":"ImageRendition","height":152,"name":"articleInline","url":"https:\u002F\u002Fstatic01.nyt.com\u002Fimages\u002F2021\u002F04\u002F07\u002Fpodcasts\u002Ftia-scene-3\u002Ftia-scene-3-articleInline.jpg","width":190}]},{"__typename":"ImageCrop","renditions":[{"__typename":"ImageRendition","height":1440,"name":"mobileMasterAt3x","url":"https:\u002F\u002Fstatic01.nyt.com\u002Fimages\u002F2021\u002F04\u002F07\u002Fpodcasts\u002Ftia-scene-3\u002Ftia-scene-3-mobileMasterAt3x.jpg","width":1800}]}],"id":"SW1hZ2U6bnl0Oi8vaW1hZ2UvMjg2ZjBiN2UtY2QwZi01Nzk1LTlhMWMtYTU0NTAzN2I2MjE3","imageType":"photo","legacyHtmlCaption":"In this series, the reporter Zoe Chace describes Bladen County’s notorious case of election fraud from 2018 as “individual people, in a tight-knit place, using their relationships to either make money or take revenge. Or both.”","timesTags":[],"uri":"nyt:\u002F\u002Fimage\u002F286f0b7e-cd0f-5795-9a1c-a545037b6217","url":"\u002Fimagepages\u002F2021\u002F04\u002F07\u002Fpodcasts\u002Ftia-scene-3.html"},"size":"MEDIUM"},{"__typename":"Dropzone","adsDesktop":false,"adsDesktopHoldout":false,"adsHybrid":false,"adsMobile":false,"adsMobileHoldout":false,"bad":true,"index":8},{"__typename":"Heading2Block","content":[{"__typename":"TextInline","formats":[],"text":"Chapter Three: The Ballad of the Nursing Home Ballots"}],"textAlign":"LEFT"},{"__typename":"AudioBlock","media":{"__typename":"Audio","audioTranscript":{"__typename":"AudioTranscript","transcriptFragment":[{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING^","text":"From Serial Productions and The New York Times, this is The Improvement Association.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":6.51,"start":0}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Chapter Three, The Ballad of the Nursing Home Ballots.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":11.72,"start":6.51}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"I've been talking to Horace for two years or more.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":14.73,"start":11.72}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"And like any relationship, it goes through its warmer periods and its colder ones.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":19.67,"start":14.73}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Horace is moody.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":21.17,"start":19.67}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Sometimes he's expansive, beginning his answers with, \"Here's what you have to understand about Bladen County.\"","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":27.62,"start":21.17}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Sometimes he seems resentful and answers me short.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":30.218,"start":27.62}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^HORACE MUNN^","text":"Where is the evidence?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":31.76,"start":30.218}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"In this one conversation, I was telling Horace that a lot of people, Republicans, whenever I bring up the cheating accusations against McCrae Dowless, their rebuttal was usually whatever McCrae might have done, the Bladen PAC had been doing it way longer and worse.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":48.22,"start":31.76}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^HORACE MUNN^","text":"OK, now, if that's their defense, where is the evidence?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":53.9,"start":48.22}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^HORACE MUNN^","text":"Because, oh, the evidence is we are Black and they are white.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":57.95,"start":53.9}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^HORACE MUNN^","text":"If you're white, you're right.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":59.96,"start":57.95}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^HORACE MUNN^","text":"That's bullshit.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":61.25,"start":59.96}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^HORACE MUNN^","text":"Where is the evidence?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":63.27,"start":61.25}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"This conversation, Horace was particularly testy with me because I was asking about a particularly persistent allegation --","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":70.85,"start":63.27}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"different from the other stuff I'd heard, bigger.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":74,"start":70.85}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"It had to do with absentee ballots from residents in a nursing home, that the PAC had somehow stolen votes from vulnerable Black voters there.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":82.74,"start":74}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ZOE CHACE^","text":"Well, they talk about these nursing home ballots.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":85.92,"start":82.74}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^HORACE MUNN^","text":"That's a lie.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":87.32,"start":85.92}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^HORACE MUNN^","text":"That's all a lie.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":89.98,"start":87.32}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^HORACE MUNN^","text":"Where are they?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":91,"start":89.98}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ZOE CHACE^","text":"I don't know.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":92.94,"start":91}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ZOE CHACE^","text":"I don't know.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":94.242,"start":92.94}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ZOE CHACE^","text":"I've been trying to find out.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":95.45,"start":94.242}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^HORACE MUNN^","text":"Where are they?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":96.18,"start":95.45}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ZOE CHACE^","text":"I don't know.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":97.38,"start":96.18}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"We sound like that, a little desperate, because I've been trying to hunt down these ballots for months.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":105.57,"start":97.38}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"For some people in Bladen County, white Republicans mainly, these nursing home ballots are their origin story for how Bladen County became infamous, why it became the national poster child for election fraud.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":118.95,"start":105.57}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"All over Bladen County, if you ask who's really been cheating in elections here, where did this all begin, someone will inevitably start strumming their guitar and singing the ballad of the nursing home.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":130.889,"start":118.95}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Every rendition of the story ends the same way.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":133.98,"start":130.889}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Nothing was ever done.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":135.42,"start":133.98}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"No one looked into it.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":136.68,"start":135.42}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"The state didn't care.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":138.24,"start":136.68}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Or if they did look into it, they covered up what they found.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":142.11,"start":138.24}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"You can't touch them precious things, someone said to me once about the PAC, which I took to mean Black people.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":149.08,"start":142.11}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"You'll get called a racist if you hold them accountable, other people in the county have said to me.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":154.44,"start":149.08}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"That belief that the PAC never gets punished and it's unfair runs just as deep as the suspicion that the PAC must be cheating.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":164.01,"start":154.44}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"I felt like getting to the bottom of these nursing home ballots would be like finding the power source of the electrical grid of suspicion in Bladen.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":172.95,"start":164.01}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"And it kind of is like that, because this handful of nursing home ballots, fewer than 10, they're supercharged.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":181.08,"start":172.95}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"They energize other later allegations against the PAC.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":184.92,"start":181.08}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"They make them more believable.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":187.38,"start":184.92}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"But also, the story of these ballots --","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":189.75,"start":187.38}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"well, the story of chasing them down --","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":192.21,"start":189.75}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"it's like one of those answers that I told you Cogdell always gives, where, en route to the answer, you get a tour of the whole place.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":200.1,"start":192.21}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"You see what's really behind all the talk of cheating in Bladen County.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":205.23,"start":200.1}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"From Serial Productions, I'm Zoe Chace.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":207.75,"start":205.23}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"And this is the Improvement Association, a true story about election fraud.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":212.805,"start":207.75}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[MUSIC]","text":"","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":217.755,"start":212.805}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[MUSIC]","text":"I first heard about the nursing home allegation at Ray Britt's furniture store, Ray's Furniture and Jewelry Liquidators.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":241.73,"start":234.59}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[MUSIC]","text":"It's in the center of town, a place for local power brokers to gossip or buy a bedroom set.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":248,"start":241.73}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[MUSIC]","text":"Ray himself is sort of the center of Republican politics in Bladen, always in the mix.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":253.17,"start":248}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[MUSIC]","text":"He's currently a county commissioner, formerly on the Board of Elections, white, Republican.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":259.07,"start":253.17}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[MUSIC]","text":"You want to know about elections in Bladen County, you better go talk to Ray Britt, is what I was told over and over.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":266.55,"start":259.07}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[MUSIC]","text":"So I went to see him.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":267.55,"start":266.55}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^SPEAKER^","text":"You need to see Ray, don't you?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":269.3,"start":267.55}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ZOE CHACE^","text":"If he's here, yeah.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":270.92,"start":269.3}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"At the store is mostly leather couches and recliners, but no Ray Britt.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":275.99,"start":270.92}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"In order to find him, I had to walk down the rows of sofas and tables and chairs, which I couldn't help feeling was a power move, this pilgrimage all the way down the long aisle to see the wizard of Oz.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":288.2,"start":275.99}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"I finally found him way in the back behind a jewelry counter, next to a tall shelf of boots for shoe repair.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":294.872,"start":288.2}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^RAY BRITT^","text":"What can I do for you?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":296.33,"start":294.872}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ZOE CHACE^","text":"Hi, remember me?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":297.98,"start":296.33}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ZOE CHACE^","text":"I'm Zoe.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":298.76,"start":297.98}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^RAY BRITT^","text":"How are you?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":299.06,"start":298.76}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^RAY BRITT^","text":"Yeah.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":299.09,"start":299.06}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ZOE CHACE^","text":"Nice to see you.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":299.78,"start":299.09}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^RAY BRITT^","text":"What can I do for you?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":301.238,"start":299.78}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"This was the day after the indictments came out, charging McCrae Dowless with perjury and election fraud crimes.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":306.937,"start":301.238}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"And I got straight to the point.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":308.27,"start":306.937}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ZOE CHACE^","text":"Well, but I mean, when you read the indictments, did you think to yourself, oh, OK, I guess McCrae did do some stuff wrong?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":313.82,"start":308.27}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^RAY BRITT^","text":"No, I didn't pay no attention to any of it.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":316.1,"start":313.82}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ZOE CHACE^","text":"Really?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":316.49,"start":316.1}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ZOE CHACE^","text":"You didn't read them?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":317.365,"start":316.49}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^RAY BRITT^","text":"No, because I know what is transpired didn't happen.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":320.54,"start":317.365}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"And then Ray pivoted away from McCrae.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":323.295,"start":320.54}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^RAY BRITT^","text":"Where are some of the evidence that we're concerned about where it may be today?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":327.17,"start":323.295}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^RAY BRITT^","text":"Let's talk about ballots that was in the safe that we knew that an investigator lied in front of Mr. John David and said, oh, yes --","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":334.343,"start":327.17}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ZOE CHACE^","text":"Wait, I don't know what you're talking about.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":336.76,"start":334.343}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^RAY BRITT^","text":"No, yeah, there's a lot that the people don't know that, yes, we want told.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":340.58,"start":336.76}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"The ballots Ray was talking about here were the nursing home ballots.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":344.51,"start":340.58}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"So it took a few more conversations with him to get the whole story.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":349.28,"start":344.51}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"At maybe our second or third meeting, I managed to weedle him out from behind the counter, which seems a little momentous.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":356.51,"start":349.28}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"He motions me to sit, and he tells me the story of the nursing home ballots.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":361.58,"start":356.51}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"It starts a decade ago with Horace and the PAC launching a big absentee ballot, get out the vote, campaign to help elect the first Black sheriff in Bladen County, that same election Horace says kicked off all the finger pointing.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":374.24,"start":361.58}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"So, about two weeks before Election Day, 2010, someone comes into Ray's furniture store.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":380.29,"start":374.24}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ZOE CHACE^","text":"So, somebody comes into the store and what happens?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":385.208,"start":380.29}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^RAY BRITT^","text":"We had a pastor come into the store.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":387.25,"start":385.208}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^RAY BRITT^","text":"And I knew him, Mr. Kincey Barrow, a fine man.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":390.97,"start":387.25}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^RAY BRITT^","text":"And he come in, and he said, I got a complaint.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":393.673,"start":390.97}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Ray Britt was on the county elections board at the time, so it made sense to come to him.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":397.84,"start":393.673}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^RAY BRITT^","text":"He said there's people voting in the nursing home hadn't known a family member in years.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":402.76,"start":397.84}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^RAY BRITT^","text":"And I said I appreciate you telling me --","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":405.46,"start":402.76}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Apparently, Kincey Barrow, while visiting the nursing home, had seen some absentee ballot envelopes about to be mailed.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":412.63,"start":405.46}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"And they were from people in the nursing home that he knew who he didn't think would be capable of making their own choices, people who might not know who the president is or what day it is.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":422.68,"start":412.63}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"And he was like, I think someone is using these elderly people, filling out ballots in their name.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":428.74,"start":422.68}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"The assumption was that these addled voters, notably mostly Black voters, were being used to rack up votes for the Black candidate for sheriff, Prentis Benston.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":439.96,"start":428.74}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Ray passed this complaint to the director of the County Board of Elections, who passed it up to the State Board of Elections.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":446.44,"start":439.96}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"And then they waited.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":448.33,"start":446.44}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^RAY BRITT^","text":"We ask and ask and ask.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":449.95,"start":448.33}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^RAY BRITT^","text":"And time went on and on and on.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":452.35,"start":449.95}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Nothing was ever done, Ray says.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":454.78,"start":452.35}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"No response.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":456.53,"start":454.78}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^RAY BRITT^","text":"If you have an inquiry or a concern from a nursing home, where would you start your investigation?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":462.4,"start":456.53}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^RAY BRITT^","text":"Would you not start at that at the nursing home?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":465.49,"start":462.4}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^RAY BRITT^","text":"The nursing home hasn't heard or seen anyone in reference to that.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":471.22,"start":465.49}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^RAY BRITT^","text":"With that being said, I rest my case on that because it's just one lie right after another lie.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":477.57,"start":471.22}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Ray won't say whom he's accusing in this story.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":485.99,"start":483.05}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"He doesn't say the words Bladen Improvement PAC, but Ray is definitely talking about the PAC.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":491.01,"start":485.99}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"When I asked him directly, do you think any of this had to do with the Bladen Improvement Association, he says, oh, no question about it.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":498.54,"start":491.01}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Other people in Bladen also mention the PAC and nursing home ballots to me and repeated the idea that it hadn't been investigated.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":507.08,"start":498.54}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Now, just as if you tried to, like, fact check an old folk song, the ballad of the nursing home ballots starts to fall apart pretty quickly once I look into it.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":517.38,"start":507.08}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"First of all, had it been investigated?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":520.29,"start":517.38}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ZOE CHACE^","text":"Uh, OK, did you ever hear anything about nursing home ballots, nursing home ballot complaints?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":530.85,"start":520.29}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^MARSHALL TUTOR^","text":"Lord, yes.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":532.94,"start":530.85}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"I called the state elections investigator from back then, which is a job in North Carolina and a hard job, it sounds like.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":539.93,"start":532.94}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"From 2003 to 2018, when just about any election fraud allegation made it to the state level, this guy, Marshall Tutor, he was the guy who looked into it.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":550.37,"start":539.93}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"He has a clear memory of the nursing home ballots allegation from the 2010 sheriff's race in Bladen County.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":556.22,"start":550.37}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^MARSHALL TUTOR^","text":"And I have been asked this many times because Britt and some of that crowd down there keeps bringing it up that I did nothing related to their allegations of the rest home that I didn't even investigate it.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":571.64,"start":556.22}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^MARSHALL TUTOR^","text":"I did --","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":572.39,"start":571.64}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Marshall Tutor says he remembers getting the tip about the ballots and investigating it pretty extensively, trying to find out were these voters coerced or manipulated, did their families know they'd voted.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":584.87,"start":572.39}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^MARSHALL TUTOR^","text":"I talked to staff at the nursing home in question.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":589.55,"start":584.87}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^MARSHALL TUTOR^","text":"And I could find nothing whatsoever that was provable that anything went wrong.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":598.74,"start":589.55}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^MARSHALL TUTOR^","text":"And I found not one family member of any of those people that was upset or claimed that something was wrong.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":609.36,"start":598.74}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"I got a box of Marshall's notes from his investigations back then and also found an email Marshall wrote to his boss about his investigation, talking to staff, et cetera.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":619.56,"start":609.36}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"I asked Marshall if the PAC had been involved in this incident at the nursing home.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":624.11,"start":619.56}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"He answered no, they were not.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":626.76,"start":624.11}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"But an elections investigator is not some impartial god everyone agrees on.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":632.54,"start":626.76}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"He is just a man, like other men, with biases and sympathies.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":637.61,"start":632.54}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"And I know Ray Britt doesn't trust Marshall Tutor.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":640.73,"start":637.61}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Ray doesn't trust the whole state board of elections, thinks they're biased against Republicans.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":645.95,"start":640.73}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"So I knew Ray wouldn't believe Marshall just saying there was no there, there.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":650.9,"start":645.95}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"I needed more than Marshall's word for it.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":653.54,"start":650.9}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"And I finally found the actual ballots in question -- or the ballot envelopes, rather, because ballots themselves are secret.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":661.58,"start":653.54}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"I found them, a small stack locked in a safe at the County Board of Elections in a mislabelled file.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":668.72,"start":661.58}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"I took all the envelopes over to Kincey Barrow, the pastor who'd made the initial complaint at Ray's store.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":674.077,"start":668.72}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ZOE CHACE^","text":"Are you Mr. Barrow?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":675.41,"start":674.077}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"And he confirmed yes, these were the ballot envelopes he was talking about.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":680.34,"start":675.41}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"So together, we looked to see who helped these people vote, who signed as a witness on the ballots.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":686.3,"start":680.34}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"I asked Kincey, was it someone from the Bladen Improvement PAC?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":690.89,"start":686.3}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Well, not as far as Kincey knew.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":693.56,"start":690.89}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"He did recognize the name of the woman who signed as a witness.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":697.1,"start":693.56}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"It was a person who worked at the nursing home.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":699.17,"start":697.1}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"She's a Black woman, but Kincey said he had no idea if she was with the PAC, actually.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":704.39,"start":699.17}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"She still works at the nursing home.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":706.14,"start":704.39}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"So then I went over there to ask her.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":709.01,"start":706.14}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"She told me she did not want to talk about this.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":711.68,"start":709.01}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"But I got in one question before she shut the door.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":715.46,"start":711.68}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"When you signed those ballots, were you working for the Bladen Improvement Association PAC?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":721.13,"start":715.46}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"She looked genuinely confused and didn't seem to know what that was.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":725,"start":721.13}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Ray, though, insists she was working for the PAC.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":733.04,"start":729.78}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"So I checked the payroll for the PAC in 2010, which is generally pretty scrupulous.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":738.68,"start":733.04}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"And she wasn't listed.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":740.03,"start":738.68}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Various members of the PAC all denied separately knowing who she was.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":746.54,"start":740.03}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"It is technically illegal for nursing home staff to assist residents with ballots.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":751.97,"start":746.54}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"But 10 years ago, Marshall Tutor talked to nursing home staff and determined that this woman had made an honest mistake.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":758.84,"start":751.97}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"She was trying to help people vote who wanted to vote.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":762.55,"start":758.84}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"The most positive thing coming out of this situation, Marshall wrote in an email to his boss detailing the investigation, is that the staff member who witnessed the ballots and the nursing home administrator have, quote,","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":775.72,"start":762.55}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"\"both told me going forward things such as this will not happen again because they're more informed on what can be done for a resident related to voting and what cannot be done.\"","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":787.45,"start":775.72}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Conclusion, what happened at the nursing home did not involve the PAC, was not a big deal and not something that could or should be prosecuted, Marshall believed and still believes.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":798.49,"start":787.45}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"So he moved on --","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":801.49,"start":798.49}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"which doesn't mean nobody cheated in the sheriff's race.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":805.69,"start":801.49}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"That's after the break.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":807.135,"start":805.69}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[MUSIC]","text":"","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":811.015,"start":807.135}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[MUSIC]","text":"When I was looking through Marshall Tutor's notes and emails about his investigations, it seemed like every other week, there was an email to his bosses.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":829.72,"start":821.2}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[MUSIC]","text":"Need the van to go to Bladen County, and we're headed to Bladen County today.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":834.01,"start":829.72}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^MARSHALL TUTOR^","text":"Number one destination, shall we say, over the years.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":838,"start":834.01}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"The notes were a chronicle of years Marshall spent following up on a steady stream of accusations of someone cheating down there.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":846.19,"start":838}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"And the 2010 sheriff's race, Marshall says, that was a real bruiser.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":850.57,"start":846.19}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^MARSHALL TUTOR^","text":"I'm telling you, I couldn't put a number on the people that I interviewed down there.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":856.34,"start":850.57}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^MARSHALL TUTOR^","text":"I mean, it was just constantly interviewing and picking up tips.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":864.13,"start":856.34}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^MARSHALL TUTOR^","text":"It was continuous.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":865.66,"start":864.13}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Most of the stuff he was following up on was fairly minor, complaints that sheriff's deputies were campaigning on the clock or using county cars to put up signs --","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":875.47,"start":865.66}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"and of course, vote buying.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":878.178,"start":875.47}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^MARSHALL TUTOR^","text":"Everybody is vote buying.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":879.97,"start":878.178}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ZOE CHACE^","text":"Everybody.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":881.9,"start":879.97}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Marshall says that's a common accusation directed at the Improvement Association PAC.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":886.49,"start":881.9}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Because the PAC is powerful, Marshall says, their endorsement's powerful.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":890.48,"start":886.49}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"So whichever candidate the PAC doesn't endorse, that candidate or that candidate's supporters will accuse the PAC of vote buying.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":899.18,"start":890.48}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"So I asked him, well, is it ever true?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":902.9,"start":899.18}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Had he ever found cheating by the PAC, vote buying or something else?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":907.56,"start":902.9}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"And Marshall says no, they didn't cheat.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":911.39,"start":907.56}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"In fact, he says, Horace, president of the PAC, called him all the time, asking if they were doing things right by the book.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":919.04,"start":911.39}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"They had made mistakes.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":920.42,"start":919.04}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"There were times Marshall would come to them with irregularities.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":923.6,"start":920.42}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"For example, the PAC sample ballot, maybe it wasn't clearly identified as being from the PAC, which is required.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":930.8,"start":923.6}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"But he said they'd correct stuff like that quickly without a fuss.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":934.19,"start":930.8}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^MARSHALL TUTOR^","text":"That's just an example of working with them to make sure that they were following the letter of the law because they were under the microscope, to say the least.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":946.55,"start":934.19}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"That 2010 sheriff's race, how vicious it was, Marshall Tutor said it reminded him of the old south --","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":953.93,"start":946.55}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Black versus white.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":955.73,"start":953.93}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"In this case, fighting for the most powerful position in the county, which was partly what accounted for all of these warrantless accusations of cheating.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":964.02,"start":955.73}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"But the underlying ugliness, the racism, he says he saw that clearly in this other case he investigated back then, a case nobody really talks about, but that still upsets him.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":975.74,"start":964.02}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^MARSHALL TUTOR^","text":"Now, I will say, in the Bladen County situation, I did have a very good case.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":985.07,"start":975.74}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^MARSHALL TUTOR^","text":"And that was on people --","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":988.67,"start":985.07}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^MARSHALL TUTOR^","text":"and I'll be specific here.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":990.8,"start":988.67}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^MARSHALL TUTOR^","text":"It was white people who were well thought of in the Black community, going to Black citizens who had received an absentee ballot and picking up those ballots and throwing them away.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1011.272,"start":990.8}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[MUSIC]","text":"","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1015.08,"start":1011.272}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[MUSIC]","text":"I had statements by the Black citizens that so-and-so came, and we trust her.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1022.942,"start":1015.08}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ZOE CHACE^","text":"Hmm.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1023.65,"start":1022.942}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^MARSHALL TUTOR^","text":"And this that and the other and these ballots never got to the Board of Elections.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1030.8,"start":1023.65}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Marshall took statements from four voters.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1033.319,"start":1030.8}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Here's what he was told.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1034.92,"start":1033.319}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"At least two white women were going around knocking on voters' doors, Black voters, mostly elderly.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1041.119,"start":1034.92}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"One of the women was a probation officer, the other a former narcotics investigator.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1046.369,"start":1041.119}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Marshall found during his investigation that they both supported the white candidate for sheriff in Bladen that year.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1052.49,"start":1046.369}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"The voters Marshall interviewed told him they intended to vote for the Black candidate, Prentis Benston.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1059.42,"start":1052.49}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"But one of the voters told Marshall that one of the woman brought him a completed ballot already sealed, and he signed it.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1067.22,"start":1059.42}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Two voters Marshall interviewed said they'd marked their ballots themselves for Prentis Benston and had sealed them.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1073.85,"start":1067.22}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"They told Marshall that the white women had picked up the sealed envelopes with the ballots, but Marshall found during his investigation that the ballots never made it to the Board of Elections.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1084.05,"start":1073.85}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"So their votes for Prentis Benston weren't counted.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1087.24,"start":1084.05}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Taking someone's ballot if you're not a family member, that's already illegal in North Carolina.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1092.49,"start":1087.24}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Like picking it up, taking it to the Board of Elections, even if you didn't tamper with it at all, that's illegal.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1098.46,"start":1092.49}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"But throwing away ballots?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1100.8,"start":1098.46}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"That was, to Marshall Tutor, the most serious kind of election crime.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1104.94,"start":1100.8}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"And that's what Marshall believed was happening, based on the totality of his investigation.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1110.13,"start":1104.94}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"In emails at the time, Marshall's boss said there appeared to be numerous felony violations.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1116.79,"start":1110.13}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Talking to Marshall Tutor and another investigator now, they both think there was a conspiracy at work to target vulnerable Black voters.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1125.07,"start":1116.79}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"That's the word they use --","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1126.39,"start":1125.07}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"\"conspiracy.\"","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1127.98,"start":1126.39}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Here were people who had intended to vote for someone, and their intention was deliberately thwarted.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1133.7,"start":1127.98}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"And yet --","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1134.2,"start":1133.7}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^MARSHALL TUTOR^","text":"In the end, all the prosecutors and the attorney general's office said that the statements from the Black citizens were hard to prove.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1148.81,"start":1134.2}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^MARSHALL TUTOR^","text":"And the Black citizens were not educated, and they were old.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1153.43,"start":1148.81}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^MARSHALL TUTOR^","text":"And so they didn't think they would stand up in court.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1156.3,"start":1153.43}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^MARSHALL TUTOR^","text":"So that was where I was most disappointed.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1160.85,"start":1156.3}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"We reached out to the two women who allegedly picked up the ballots, and they declined to talk.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1165.83,"start":1160.85}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Most of the voters who Marshall talked to are dead.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1168.83,"start":1165.83}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"We called a relative of one of them and startled her while she was at the grocery store.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1173.12,"start":1168.83}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"She said she'd blocked the incident out and moved on, didn't want to talk about it.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1177.2,"start":1173.12}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"She still seemed upset about it.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1180.43,"start":1177.2}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"This is the kind of story that I think should take top billing in the extensive election lore of Bladen County.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1187.77,"start":1180.43}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Super serious allegation, possibly a cynical disenfranchisement scheme, checked out by authorities, found by those authorities to have merit, run up the chain to more investigating authorities, who also find it has merit, and then nothing, no prosecution, no nothing.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1205.02,"start":1187.77}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"So I went back to the furniture store to talk to Ray Britt to see if I could square what he'd been telling me with everything that I knew now.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1218.85,"start":1210.09}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"What about this other investigation, the white women who might have thrown out votes for Prentis Benston?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1224.73,"start":1218.85}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ZOE CHACE^","text":"Does that sound familiar to you at all?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1227.79,"start":1224.73}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^RAY BRITT^","text":"Never heard of such.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1229.92,"start":1227.79}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^RAY BRITT^","text":"Never heard anything.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1231.9,"start":1229.92}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"After a minute or so, he did remember that other case, though.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1235.5,"start":1231.9}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Right.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1237.12,"start":1235.5}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Well, maybe he was confusing the nursing home story with this story, melding them into one.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1242.91,"start":1237.12}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Elderly Black voters, someone taking advantage of them with absentee ballots.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1247.41,"start":1242.91}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ZOE CHACE^","text":"So are we talking about two different things or the same thing?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1250.65,"start":1247.41}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^RAY BRITT^","text":"I would think from what you're saying, no, this is an entirely different incident.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1258,"start":1250.65}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Ray didn't buy my theory at all, that he'd conflated the two.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1261.93,"start":1258}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"I told him about talking to Marshall Tutor and looking at his notes.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1265.29,"start":1261.93}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Told him Marshall Tutor did look into the nursing home ballots.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1269.01,"start":1265.29}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"But like I said, Ray doesn't trust Marshall.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1272.01,"start":1269.01}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"For that matter, Ray doesn't trust me.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1274.89,"start":1272.01}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Like a lot of people in Bladen and elsewhere, he kind of hates the media because too biased.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1280.62,"start":1274.89}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"He's accused me of being a liberal before.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1283.29,"start":1280.62}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"And now, here I am, standing in front of Ray, saying that fraud story you keep telling me, the ballad of the nursing home ballots, about how the PAC is cheating, I'm not finding evidence of the Bladen Improvement PAC doing anything wrong, which, in his book, I think,","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1300.69,"start":1283.29}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"means I'm just not looking right because I have my own agenda, too.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1305.79,"start":1300.69}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"This conversation devolves into a back and forth of me begging him for evidence to back up his claim and him telling me there is much more that he knows about all this that, unfortunately, he cannot divulge, which might sound familiar.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1321.09,"start":1305.79}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"It's very voter fraud discourse of the moment.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1324.17,"start":1321.09}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Sure, you're not seeing the evidence today, but just wait.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1327.63,"start":1324.17}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"There's more.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1328.71,"start":1327.63}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"It's definitely there.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1330.13,"start":1328.71}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^RAY BRITT^","text":"I know a little more about it than what I want to tell you because I've talked to folks at the nursing home myself.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1339.72,"start":1330.13}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^RAY BRITT^","text":"I guess I should feel free to be able to talk about something that they said it was never nothing there.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1346.02,"start":1339.72}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^RAY BRITT^","text":"But I still choose not to do so because I think it's still something that needs to be addressed.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1351.39,"start":1346.02}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ZOE CHACE^","text":"My impression has always been that McCrae Dowless was accused of some things, but that some people in the county, who I've spoken to -- and you're one of them --","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1364.2,"start":1351.39}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ZOE CHACE^","text":"have been like, what's been going on in this county with Bladen County Improvement Association has been way worse and way bigger.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1371.28,"start":1364.2}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ZOE CHACE^","text":"And I've been trying to look for evidence to back that up for months now.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1378.32,"start":1371.28}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ZOE CHACE^","text":"I'm still looking.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1380.63,"start":1378.32}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ZOE CHACE^","text":"Can you help me with that at all?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1382.28,"start":1380.63}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^RAY BRITT^","text":"You probably keep on looking.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1384.372,"start":1382.28}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ZOE CHACE^","text":"Why?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1385.08,"start":1384.372}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^RAY BRITT^","text":"We just addressed some of the issues, did we not?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1387.98,"start":1385.08}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ZOE CHACE^","text":"Yeah, but that's what I'm saying, is, I tried to look to back that up because I was like, let me see what this nursing home fraud is that Mr. Britts is talking about.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1395.93,"start":1387.98}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ZOE CHACE^","text":"And then when I get the emails, I see it's not Bladen County Improvement, it's somebody else.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1399.84,"start":1395.93}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ZOE CHACE^","text":"So that's why I came back to you.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1401.215,"start":1399.84}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ZOE CHACE^","text":"Is that the investigation?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1402.35,"start":1401.215}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ZOE CHACE^","text":"You're saying, no, it's something else.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1404.37,"start":1402.35}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ZOE CHACE^","text":"So I'm like, what?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1405.68,"start":1404.37}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ZOE CHACE^","text":"Show me something.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1406.79,"start":1405.68}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ZOE CHACE^","text":"I want to see it, you know?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1409.126,"start":1406.79}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^RAY BRITT^","text":"Mm-hmm.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1411.13,"start":1409.126}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^RAY BRITT^","text":"Time will tell.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1413.01,"start":1411.13}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^RAY BRITT^","text":"Yep, time will tell.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1414.41,"start":1413.01}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ZOE CHACE^","text":"How am I going to find out about it?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1419.04,"start":1416.998}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^RAY BRITT^","text":"You may not ever.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1421.52,"start":1419.04}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^RAY BRITT^","text":"But some of us know.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1424.09,"start":1421.52}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ZOE CHACE^","text":"But why won't you tell?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1427.34,"start":1424.09}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ZOE CHACE^","text":"I guess is my question, why won't you just explain it to me so that --","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1431.605,"start":1427.34}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ZOE CHACE^","text":"I don't know -- just so I can see the full picture.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1433.73,"start":1431.605}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ZOE CHACE^","text":"Because I still feel like I'm squinting a little bit.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1435.938,"start":1433.73}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^RAY BRITT^","text":"Keep squinting.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1437.115,"start":1435.938}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^RAY BRITT^","text":"Sometimes when you squint, you can focus a little better.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1439.49,"start":1437.115}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"What happens if I squint at Ray?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1448.53,"start":1445.47}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Squinting at Ray, I see someone very motivated to throw suspicion way off the Republican Party and onto the Democrats.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1457.02,"start":1448.53}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Ray says, no way.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1459.18,"start":1457.02}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"But what I see is Ray Britt isn't simply a concerned county commissioner.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1464.52,"start":1459.18}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Ray's got a dog in this fight, not just a partisan one.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1468.09,"start":1464.52}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"It's personal.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1469.53,"start":1468.09}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Ray's a big booster of McCrae Dowless.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1472.47,"start":1469.53}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"He's hired McCrae before for one of his county commissioner campaigns.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1476.61,"start":1472.47}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"In 2017, Ray's the guy who introduced McCrae Dowless to Mark Harris, the Republican Congressman McCrae allegedly cheated for.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1485.37,"start":1476.61}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"They all met in Ray's Furniture Liquidator's a year before the campaign started.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1490.56,"start":1485.37}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Ray went and bailed McCrae out of jail after McCrae was arrested for his alleged role in the scandal.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1496.47,"start":1490.56}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"The money for bail was paid for by another Republican benefactor in the county.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1500.64,"start":1496.47}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"But Ray drove McCrae home.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1503.1,"start":1500.64}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"None of that is wrong.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1504.36,"start":1503.1}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Ray is friends with McCrae and points out every time I talk to him that McCrae has not been convicted, only indicted.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1511.62,"start":1504.36}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"It's just that for a guy who seems pretty interested in talking about election cheating, he doesn't seem very interested in talking about the evidence of McCrae's operation.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1521.43,"start":1511.62}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"When I do ask Ray about McCrae, all he says is, if McCrae did something wrong, he should apologize, holding his hands up like, how would I know, before returning yet again to the story of the nursing home ballots and the PAC.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1535.44,"start":1521.43}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"In his heart, Ray might believe the PAC is very guilty.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1539.16,"start":1535.44}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"But I also think the reason he's always telling the story of the nursing home is because that's his way of defending McCrae and deflecting attention from the Republicans.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1549.13,"start":1539.16}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"And I believe this because Ray has not just been telling the nursing home ballot story to me in his furniture store.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1557.38,"start":1549.13}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING^","text":"South Carolina's 9th congressional district race is in limbo because of irregularities with absentee ballots.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1563.77,"start":1557.38}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"This is a TV news story from back in 2018, the height of the frenzy around the 2018 congressional election and the allegations of massive fraud.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1573.84,"start":1563.77}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"And there are reporters crawling all over Bladen County, trying to understand how this little rural place managed to steal a federal congressional election.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1583.86,"start":1573.84}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"One of them was a reporter from Charlotte named Nick Ochsner.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1587.55,"start":1583.86}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"And one night, Nick scored a huge get of an interview with McCrae Dowless himself, Ray Britt and another local Republican.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1595.68,"start":1587.55}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Now Ray says Nick first brought up the 2010 nursing home ballots to him.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1601.02,"start":1595.68}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Nick says no, the whole reason he was in Bladen was to hear what had gone on in the 2018 race.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1607.57,"start":1601.02}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"That's what he wanted to know about.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1609.51,"start":1607.57}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"But he says Ray had a different story to tell about fraud that had been going on for years, but no one ever investigated it.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1617.25,"start":1609.51}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Nick went on TV that night.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1619.29,"start":1617.25}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING (NICK OCHSNER)^","text":"Yeah, Paul, specifically those concerns in 2010 centered on a bloc of votes that were cast from a nursing home.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1626.25,"start":1619.29}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING (NICK OCHSNER)^","text":"Those concerns were raised by a man named Ray Britt.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1628.92,"start":1626.25}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING (NICK OCHSNER)^","text":"Today, he tells me that all of today's problems of uncertainty may not have happened had investigators taken his concerns seriously eight years ago.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1638.31,"start":1628.92}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING (RAY BRITT)^","text":"Your citizens look for you to be accountable for them because they are aware of these things going on.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1644.46,"start":1638.31}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING (RAY BRITT)^","text":"But you're doing your job, and you submit it to no avail.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1650.64,"start":1644.46}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Nick went through the same ballot envelopes I did.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1653.49,"start":1650.64}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING (NICK OCHSNER)^","text":"We obtained these documents, which were still in the safe at the Bladen County Board of Elections Wednesday.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1659.532,"start":1653.49}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING (NICK OCHSNER)^","text":"Which show county staff sent materials to the state, but Britt says nothing was ever done.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1663.42,"start":1659.532}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING (RAY BRITT)^","text":"And all of these things are reported.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1666.81,"start":1663.42}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Nick did get a statement from the State Board of Elections, which basically said that was then, this is now.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1672.93,"start":1666.81}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Marshall Tutor doesn't work here anymore, so we don't know what happened with that, which was weak and damaging.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1679.74,"start":1672.93}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"It left Ray's accusation just as open-ended as it was when Ray made it and therefore, just as incendiary.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1687.6,"start":1679.74}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Remember, this was an allegation that had been checked out and was not substantiated.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1692.49,"start":1687.6}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"And here was the state not saying that.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1696.43,"start":1692.49}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"So the story Ray's telling --","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1698.46,"start":1696.43}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"there's cheating all over the place, and yet, the state just cracks down on McCrae --","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1703.14,"start":1698.46}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"that gets unchallenged.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1705.75,"start":1703.14}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"At the end of the segment, Nick tees Ray up for the takeaway.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1709.44,"start":1705.75}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING (NICK OCHSNER)^","text":"Do you think some of this could have been prevented had the state board started investigating eight years ago when you first tried to sound the alarm?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1715.65,"start":1709.44}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING (RAY BRITT)^","text":"Oh, without a doubt.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1717.9,"start":1715.65}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Here's what I make of this.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1722.67,"start":1720.72}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"The ballad of the nursing home ballots, it functions as cover fire for the Republicans dealing with allegations of ballot tampering on their side.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1731.64,"start":1722.67}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"The nursing home story got traction right when a different election fraud story about McCrae Dowless was all over the news.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1739.15,"start":1731.64}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"I don't think that's a coincidence.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1741.117,"start":1739.15}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[MUSIC]","text":"","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1744.933,"start":1741.117}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[MUSIC]","text":"I know a lot of people listening to this podcast now probably think it's obvious that the PAC doesn't cheat, that it's either cynical politics or general racism.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1756.76,"start":1746.85}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[MUSIC]","text":"And that's why people point their fingers at the PAC.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1759.48,"start":1756.76}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[MUSIC]","text":"But I also know not all of you listening think that, especially if you live in Bladen County.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1765.69,"start":1759.48}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[MUSIC]","text":"You think I haven't dug far enough, haven't squinted hard enough, and probably that my own biases get in the way.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1772.83,"start":1765.69}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[MUSIC]","text":"just like a big portion of the country thinks the election was stolen from Trump, a big portion of Bladen County thinks the PAC cheats.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1780.45,"start":1772.83}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[MUSIC]","text":"In Bladen's case, maybe the majority of people think that, and a lot of people in the state, too.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1787.17,"start":1780.45}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[MUSIC]","text":"But I ran down everything that I could find, not just the nursing home story, every single official complaint I could get my hands on and some unofficial ones, too, from 2010 all the way up to 2018.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1800.04,"start":1787.17}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[MUSIC]","text":"I had to.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1801.52,"start":1800.04}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[MUSIC]","text":"And here's what I can tell you real quick.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1804.06,"start":1801.52}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[MUSIC]","text":"2010 -- we already talked about that one -- no PAC cheating.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1807.9,"start":1804.06}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[MUSIC]","text":"2012, allegation of vote buying.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1810.78,"start":1807.9}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[MUSIC]","text":"Supposedly, Cogdell, one of the members of the PAC, was offering wine to voters.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1816.39,"start":1810.78}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[MUSIC]","text":"It was investigated, not substantiated.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1819.28,"start":1816.39}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[MUSIC]","text":"Plus, another nursing home allegation regarding a single ballot --","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1822.99,"start":1819.28}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[MUSIC]","text":"dismissed.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1824.67,"start":1822.99}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[MUSIC]","text":"2016, fishy handwriting on absentee ballots for a write-in candidate.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1830.13,"start":1824.67}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[MUSIC]","text":"Investigated, a hearing was held, a minor infraction, dismissed.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1835.56,"start":1830.13}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[MUSIC]","text":"Also, a handful of nursing home complaints -- always with the nursing homes --","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1839.73,"start":1835.56}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[MUSIC]","text":"they checked into that didn't add up to anything nefarious at all.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1844.64,"start":1839.73}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[MUSIC]","text":"So for the past decade, I found no evidence to back up any allegations that the PAC was cheating.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1850.75,"start":1844.64}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[MUSIC]","text":"They've made mistakes, but this is not a group that's committing election fraud.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1856.15,"start":1850.75}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[MUSIC]","text":"And yet, all the accusations and rumors have built on each other very effectively, right up to the 2018 congressional scandal and state hearing where the PAC got publicly chastised, even though most of the four days of testimony were related to McCrae's operation.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1874.59,"start":1856.15}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[MUSIC]","text":"The few specific claims about the PAC that were made during the hearing weren't any more verifiable than what I'd heard about from Ray Britt or anyone else in Bladen.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1885.27,"start":1874.59}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[MUSIC]","text":"Months after the hearing was over, I went to the investigators and the prosecutor to see if I was missing anything.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1891.96,"start":1885.27}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[MUSIC]","text":"Was there anything else that made them suspicious of the PAC that I didn't get a chance to see?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1897.61,"start":1891.96}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[MUSIC]","text":"Nope, they told me.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1899.4,"start":1897.61}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[MUSIC]","text":"And the prosecutor who's still working on this case is not investigating the PAC at all, she told me.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1906.4,"start":1899.4}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[MUSIC]","text":"But there was still one weird thing left that made me suspicious --","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1912,"start":1906.4}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[MUSIC]","text":"or curious.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1914.31,"start":1912}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[MUSIC]","text":"And it ended up making me feel like the diabolical thing about accusing someone of cheating is it can be awfully hard to prove that they don't, or they never did.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1925.06,"start":1914.31}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[MUSIC]","text":"It was the moment when Horace was asked to stand at the hearing when Lisa Britt was testifying --","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1930.66,"start":1925.06}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[MUSIC]","text":"Lisa Britt, by the way, no immediate relation to Ray Britt.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1934.44,"start":1930.66}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[MUSIC]","text":"But anyway, Lisa Britt was McCrae's stepdaughter and testified longest and most compellingly about McCrae's alleged cheating, and her own, the fake signatures, the filling in ballots, the transporting of ballots.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1947.7,"start":1934.44}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[MUSIC]","text":"And you might remember this from the prologue.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1951,"start":1947.7}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[MUSIC]","text":"At one point, Lisa Britt says Horace was working with McCrae, that she saw Horace in McCrae's office, and the two men spoke on the phone repeatedly.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1961.59,"start":1951}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[MUSIC]","text":"And then murder trial style, the state board asked her to point him out in the crowd.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1967.2,"start":1961.59}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING^","text":"Can we get his name please for the record?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1970.908,"start":1967.2}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING (LISA BRITT)^","text":"The gentleman's name is Horace Munn.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1974.21,"start":1970.908}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING^","text":"Are you Mr. Munn?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1975.42,"start":1974.21}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING (HORACE MUNN)^","text":"Yes, sir, I am.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1976.22,"start":1975.42}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING^","text":"All right, thank you, sir.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1978.49,"start":1976.22}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Horace, of course, denies all this.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1980.98,"start":1978.49}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"He told me he did not work with McCrae.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1983.38,"start":1980.98}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Said he hadn't spoken to McCrae in years.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1986.05,"start":1983.38}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"So then I asked around.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1987.73,"start":1986.05}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Did McCrae and Horace work together in the 2018 election?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1991.69,"start":1987.73}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"It baffled everyone in Bladen County, even Republicans.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1994.96,"start":1991.69}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Like, I don't think so.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1996.13,"start":1994.96}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"That doesn't make sense.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1997.81,"start":1996.13}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"I asked a woman who actually worked in the office with McCrae during the campaign, and she said no, before slamming the door.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2006.06,"start":1997.81}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Over the last two years reporting the story, I asked McCrae over and over again for an interview.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2012.66,"start":2006.06}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"And he always very gently said no.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2015.33,"start":2012.66}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"But one day last summer, I finally got this out of him.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2018.64,"start":2015.33}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^MCCRAE DOWLESS^","text":"I wouldn't even know Horace Munn's phone number, to be honest.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2022.38,"start":2018.64}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"And --","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2023.34,"start":2022.38}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^MCCRAE DOWLESS^","text":"But I can tell you this.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2025.8,"start":2023.34}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^MCCRAE DOWLESS^","text":"Horace Munn has never been to my house.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2028.678,"start":2025.8}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^HORACE MUNN^","text":"Asking me questions, and this is our last and final interview, correct?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2038.01,"start":2032.51}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"It wasn't, but I told Horace that I was probably done asking about cheating allegations against the PAC.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2044.91,"start":2038.01}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"And I had recently found out this final bit of information.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2048.179,"start":2044.91}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"I told him what McCrae had said to me about not working with them.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2052.139,"start":2048.179}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Horace's response to this revelation was pretty much, duh.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2056.4,"start":2052.139}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^HORACE MUNN^","text":"If you're innocent, you're innocent.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2059.55,"start":2056.4}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^HORACE MUNN^","text":"I mean, so --","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2061.11,"start":2059.55}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^HORACE MUNN^","text":"but I wanted you to find out and research it.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2064,"start":2061.11}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^HORACE MUNN^","text":"Get your answer not from me, from someone else.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2068.06,"start":2064}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^HORACE MUNN^","text":"And he had a choice to tell the truth about it or lie about it.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2071.03,"start":2068.06}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^HORACE MUNN^","text":"So he told the truth.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2072.46,"start":2071.03}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^HORACE MUNN^","text":"And I knew he would.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2074.3,"start":2072.46}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ZOE CHACE^","text":"I still don't know why Lisa Britt said that.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2076.699,"start":2074.3}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ZOE CHACE^","text":"I think that's confusing.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2079.429,"start":2076.699}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^HORACE MUNN^","text":"Because I think there was another person that was there.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2083.449,"start":2079.429}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^HORACE MUNN^","text":"And to white people, Black people look alike.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2086.31,"start":2083.449}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Horace thinks Lisa confused him for another Black man.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2089.929,"start":2086.31}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"I tried to ask Lisa about this, but she didn't want to talk.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2093.29,"start":2089.929}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"So, could be?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2095.499,"start":2093.29}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[MUSIC]","text":"","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2099.99,"start":2095.499}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[MUSIC]","text":"I've spent most of my time working on this story, chasing the ins and outs of cheating accusations against the PAC at the same time as the country has been blowing up over accusations of election fraud in the 2020 presidential election.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2118.39,"start":2103.99}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[MUSIC]","text":"And it's been weird, like seeing the movie version of a book I've already read, lots of different characters and scenes, but I knew where it was going.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2127.98,"start":2118.39}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[MUSIC]","text":"I was alarmed from very early on at the drumbeat from President Trump and his supporters about cheating.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2135.36,"start":2127.98}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[MUSIC]","text":"It wasn't just that Trump often singled out majority Black cities or polling places as sites where cheating was supposedly happening, though he did that.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2143.77,"start":2135.36}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[MUSIC]","text":"It was that a lot of people seemed to think these cheating accusations would all fade away if courts and public officials looked into them and found they weren't true and said that in public, or that it would go away if Trump lost or once Biden came in.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2159.33,"start":2143.77}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[MUSIC]","text":"Or even now, I just think lots of people think this belief in widespread election fraud will fade away with just sheer passage of time.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2169.38,"start":2159.33}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[MUSIC]","text":"But what I know from Bladen is this.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2172.32,"start":2169.38}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[MUSIC]","text":"In the right circumstances, once accusations have been repeated enough times, they're stuck.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2178.26,"start":2172.32}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[MUSIC]","text":"You can't unscrew the lid.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2180.27,"start":2178.26}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[MUSIC]","text":"It only goes in one direction -- tighter and tighter.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2183.99,"start":2180.27}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[MUSIC]","text":"You know the line I keep saying at the beginning of every episode?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2187.8,"start":2183.99}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[MUSIC]","text":"A true story about election fraud.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2190.5,"start":2187.8}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[MUSIC]","text":"What I mean by that is that actual election fraud, when it happens, it's usually small, self-contained, relatively easy to catch.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2200.52,"start":2190.5}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[MUSIC]","text":"But accusations of election fraud, those linger and grow.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2205.62,"start":2200.52}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[MUSIC]","text":"So the true story is that the suspicion of fraud can affect people way more directly than actual fraud, which is rare.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2214.8,"start":2205.62}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[MUSIC]","text":"","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2219.46,"start":2214.8}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[MUSIC]","text":"The reason Horace called me down to Bladen County to begin with was not just to exonerate his PAC, but for me to understand why they'd even been implicated at all, to see how hurling accusations at the PAC, creating suspicion and distrust of his organization, helps their opponents.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2237.55,"start":2219.46}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[MUSIC]","text":"In a place where accusations of election fraud have been used for more than 100 years to keep Black people from voting, that's not some kind of coincidence, Horace says.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2247.06,"start":2237.55}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[MUSIC]","text":"That's what still happens here.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2248.53,"start":2247.06}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[MUSIC]","text":"That's what I've been trying to tell you, an article he'd said about the South and Bladen County.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2256.33,"start":2248.53}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[MUSIC]","text":"And so far, this story, the story I've been telling you, this is the story Horace wanted me to tell.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2263.89,"start":2256.33}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[MUSIC]","text":"But the rest of this story, what happened next and just how the cheating accusations would weaken the PAC's strength, I don't think Horace saw that one coming.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2275.02,"start":2263.89}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[MUSIC]","text":"Because while Horace has been focused on the threat from without, the accusations were starting to cause a rot from within.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2284.21,"start":2275.02}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[MUSIC]","text":"That's next time on The Improvement Association.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2286.76,"start":2284.21}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[MUSIC]","text":"The Improvement Association is produced and edited by Nancy Updike and me.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2304.26,"start":2299.22}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[MUSIC]","text":"Neil Drumming is our managing editor.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2306.27,"start":2304.26}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[MUSIC]","text":"Julie Snyder is executive editor.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2308.67,"start":2306.27}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[MUSIC]","text":"Additional editing by Sarah Koenig and Ira Glass.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2311.76,"start":2308.67}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[MUSIC]","text":"R.L. Nave is our editorial consultant.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2314.22,"start":2311.76}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[MUSIC]","text":"Fact-checking and research by Ben Phelan.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2316.59,"start":2314.22}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[MUSIC]","text":"Music supervision and mixing by Phoebe Wang.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2319.26,"start":2316.59}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[MUSIC]","text":"Amy Pedulla is our associate producer.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2321.51,"start":2319.26}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[MUSIC]","text":"Ndeye Thioubou is the supervising producer.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2324.27,"start":2321.51}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[MUSIC]","text":"Original music composed by Kwame Brandt-Pierce.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2328.05,"start":2324.27}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[MUSIC]","text":"Additional support from the staff at This American Life, including Emanuele Berry, Julie Whitaker, Cassie Howley, Seth Lind, and Frances Swanson.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2336.69,"start":2328.05}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[MUSIC]","text":"At The New York Times, Sam Dolnick, Lauren Jackson, Elizabeth Davis Moore, Alena Cerro, and Nora Keller.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2343.56,"start":2336.69}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[MUSIC]","text":"Special thanks to Gary Bartlett, Michael Biesecker, Emery P. Dalesio, Matt Dixon, Ginger Eason, Emily Featherstone, Lorrin Freeman, Jerry Lesane, Jen Nelson, Nick Ochsner, Kim Strach, Charlotte Smith, Jeff Smith, Eddie Vye, Billy Ray Ward, Mike White, Marc Maximov and Jessica Weisberg.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2365.1,"start":2343.56}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[MUSIC]","text":"The Improvement Association is produced by Serial Productions and The New York Times.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2370.7,"start":2365.1}}]},"credit":"","fileUrl":"https:\u002F\u002Fnyt.simplecastaudio.com\u002Fd7b66137-c66c-4a78-a832-79703f55da09\u002Fepisodes\u002F3bbc722c-78cc-43d9-9bd9-17ae6f3de25f\u002Faudio\u002F128\u002Fdefault.mp3?awCollectionId=d7b66137-c66c-4a78-a832-79703f55da09&awEpisodeId=3bbc722c-78cc-43d9-9bd9-17ae6f3de25f","firstPublished":"2021-04-20T07:56:49.000Z","headline":{"__typename":"CreativeWorkHeadline","default":"Listen to Chapter Three."},"id":"QXVkaW86bnl0Oi8vYXVkaW8vY2YxZjIwOWItNDJlZS01MzRhLTlhZmEtMDBjYzE2ZTY3ODU3","length":2493,"podcastSeries":{"__typename":"AudioPodcastSeries","image":{"__typename":"Image","crops":[{"__typename":"ImageCrop","renditions":[{"__typename":"ImageRendition","height":75,"name":"thumbStandard","url":"https:\u002F\u002Fstatic01.nyt.com\u002Fimages\u002F2021\u002F02\u002F17\u002Fpodcasts\u002Ftia-serial-albumartwork\u002Ftia-serial-albumartwork-thumbStandard.png","width":75},{"__typename":"ImageRendition","height":150,"name":"thumbLarge","url":"https:\u002F\u002Fstatic01.nyt.com\u002Fimages\u002F2021\u002F02\u002F17\u002Fpodcasts\u002Ftia-serial-albumartwork\u002Ftia-serial-albumartwork-thumbLarge.png","width":150}]}],"id":"SW1hZ2U6bnl0Oi8vaW1hZ2UvYTY1NTkxMGItZjVhZC01ZGZkLThmMTMtZDQ0NTNlMTAzNTRk"},"name":"The-Improvement-Association","summary":"TKTKTKTKTKTKTKTKTKTKTKTKTKTKTK","title":"The Improvement Association"},"promotionalHeadline":"Listen to Chapter Three.","section":{"__typename":"Section","id":"U2VjdGlvbjpueXQ6Ly9zZWN0aW9uLzExMDc5OTg3LWFlOGQtNWY1Zi04YzJlLThjNjZkMzM3ZDJiYQ==","name":"podcasts"},"sourceId":"100000007696884","summary":"Which stories stick?","uri":"nyt:\u002F\u002Faudio\u002Fcf1f209b-42ee-534a-9afa-00cc16e67857"}},{"__typename":"Dropzone","adsDesktop":true,"adsDesktopHoldout":true,"adsHybrid":false,"adsMobile":false,"adsMobileHoldout":true,"bad":false,"index":9},{"__typename":"ParagraphBlock","content":[{"__typename":"TextInline","formats":[],"text":"Zoe delves into one of the most serious allegations against the Bladen Improvement PAC: an accusation about stealing votes from vulnerable people that goes back 10 years. In trying to figure out if there is any truth in this particularly persistent rumor, Zoe comes to understand how and why election cheating allegations are so sticky."}],"textAlign":"LEFT"},{"__typename":"Dropzone","adsDesktop":false,"adsDesktopHoldout":false,"adsHybrid":false,"adsMobile":false,"adsMobileHoldout":false,"bad":true,"index":10},{"__typename":"ImageBlock","media":{"__typename":"Image","altText":"","caption":{"__typename":"TextOnlyDocumentBlock","content":[{"__typename":"ParagraphBlock","content":[{"__typename":"TextInline","formats":[],"text":"Camp Clearwater Campground in Bladen County."}]}],"text":"Camp Clearwater Campground in Bladen County."},"credit":"Jeremy M. Lange for The New York 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Clearwater Campground in Bladen County.","timesTags":[],"uri":"nyt:\u002F\u002Fimage\u002Fcc0bb253-6f17-53d7-9a2b-1022f8a2b6c9","url":"\u002Fimagepages\u002F2021\u002F04\u002F07\u002Fpodcasts\u002Ftia-scene-4.html"},"size":"MEDIUM"},{"__typename":"Dropzone","adsDesktop":false,"adsDesktopHoldout":false,"adsHybrid":true,"adsMobile":true,"adsMobileHoldout":false,"bad":true,"index":11},{"__typename":"Heading2Block","content":[{"__typename":"TextInline","formats":[],"text":"Chapter Four: ‘Let Them Pull the Red Wagon’"}],"textAlign":"LEFT"},{"__typename":"AudioBlock","media":{"__typename":"Audio","audioTranscript":{"__typename":"AudioTranscript","transcriptFragment":[{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"From Serial Productions in The New York Times, this is The Improvement Association.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":5.91,"start":0}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Chapter 4.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":7.5,"start":5.91}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"\"Let Them Pull the Red Wagon.\"","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":11.196,"start":7.5}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Here we are, August 2019, the eve of a congressional election, the special election, the do-over after the cheating scandal, the one where McCrae Dowless allegedly pulled his illegal absentee ballot shenanigans.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":27.01,"start":11.196}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"After which even the Republicans had agreed, OK, throw out the results, let's try this again, so new congressional election.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":36.5,"start":27.01}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"The candidates this time around are Dan McCready, he's the same Democrat as last time, and then another Dan, Dan Bishop.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":43.64,"start":36.5}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"He's the new Republican candidate.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":45.78,"start":43.64}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING^","text":"Two of the candidates vying to represent the state's 9th congressional district.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":50.03,"start":45.78}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"It's a televised debate between the two Dans, the one and only debate of the race.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":55.25,"start":50.03}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"And at the end, they do that gimmick where both candidates are allowed to ask each other a question.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":60.4,"start":55.25}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[BACKGROUND CONVERSATION]","text":"","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":61.685,"start":60.4}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[BACKGROUND CONVERSATION]","text":"If you've ever watched a political debate, you know those questions aren't really questions.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":66.23,"start":61.685}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[BACKGROUND CONVERSATION]","text":"They're little speeches, setups to try to stick it to the other guy, make him look bad.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":71.54,"start":66.23}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[BACKGROUND CONVERSATION]","text":"To that end you might think Republican Dan Bishop would do his level best to avoid any talk of McCrae Dowless and the rollicking national embarrassment through which his party, the Republican Party,","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":83.69,"start":71.54}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[BACKGROUND CONVERSATION]","text":"had just dragged the voters of North Carolina, which caused the special election to happen.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":88.61,"start":83.69}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[BACKGROUND CONVERSATION]","text":"But no.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":89.78,"start":88.61}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[BACKGROUND CONVERSATION]","text":"He goes right there to allegations of election fraud.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":94.46,"start":89.78}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[BACKGROUND CONVERSATION]","text":"He says to the Democrat, Dan McCready, never mind McCrae Dowless.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":98.833,"start":94.46}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[BACKGROUND CONVERSATION]","text":"I want to talk about someone else.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":100.25,"start":98.833}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING (DAN BISHOP)^","text":"McCrae Dowless.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":100.79,"start":100.25}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING (DAN BISHOP)^","text":"But tonight, I want to ask you about Lola Wooten.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":103.76,"start":100.79}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Lola Wooten, she's a campaign worker in Bladen.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":107.27,"start":103.76}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Key fact here, unlike McCrae, who has 13 indictments, she has zero.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":113.39,"start":107.27}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"You can forget her name, in fact, as soon as we're done here.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":116.75,"start":113.39}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"But Republican Dan Bishop is trying some cynical rhetorical gymnastics right now at the 11th hour of the 11th hour with early voting already underway.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":126.92,"start":116.75}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Check it out.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":128.27,"start":126.92}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING (DAN BISHOP)^","text":"She turned in excess of 200 applications for absentee ballots.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":132.98,"start":128.27}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"That was perfectly legal at the time, by the way.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":135.71,"start":132.98}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING (DAN BISHOP)^","text":"She signed as a witness on the ballot envelopes for many, many people.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":139.7,"start":135.71}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Also legal.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":140.72,"start":139.7}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING (DAN BISHOP)^","text":"She was paid by the Bladen County Improvement Association.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":143.99,"start":140.72}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Also legal.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":145.04,"start":143.99}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"But no matter, there it is.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":147.2,"start":145.04}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"The PAC, on TV, associated, baselessly, with election fraud.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":152.39,"start":147.2}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Dan Bishop keeps going.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":153.74,"start":152.39}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING (DAN BISHOP)^","text":"The Bladen County Improvement Association, in turn, was paid by the federal account of the North Carolina Democratic Party.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":160.37,"start":153.74}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Legal.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":161.078,"start":160.37}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING (DAN BISHOP)^","text":"And the federal account of the North Carolina Democratic Party was funded by your campaign.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":166.328,"start":161.078}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Also legal.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":167.39,"start":166.328}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"All of it.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":169.13,"start":167.39}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Yet Dan Bishop wants to know, all gotcha like, what did you do about that, Dan McCready?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":174.68,"start":169.13}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING (DAN BISHOP)^","text":"Can you explain what steps you took to ensure that Lola Wooten wasn't harvesting ballots or influencing elderly and infirm people in the completion of their ballot?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":185,"start":174.68}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"And Democrat Dan McCready gives your basic, I'm not going to dignify that with a response response.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":190.97,"start":185}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING (DAN MCCREADY)^","text":"Let me answer this question by sharing my horror that after the largest case of election fraud in recent American history, a fraud that took place in our towns in North Carolina, where --","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":205.48,"start":190.97}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"To me, his answer is notable for what he doesn't go on to say.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":209.26,"start":205.48}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"He doesn't say the Bladen Improvement Association, a Black, get out the vote group, hasn't done anything wrong.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":216.07,"start":209.26}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"And your using their name to attack me over election fraud is not only profoundly ironic, it's race baiting.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":223.69,"start":216.07}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"He says nothing like that.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":226.17,"start":223.69}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"This pungent exchange during the debate, for one thing, it perfectly illustrated Horace's constant complaint that unfounded accusations and insinuations about the PAC have been turned into weapons by Republicans.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":239.52,"start":226.17}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"To the point that, out of all the things that a congressional candidate could choose to talk about in his closing argument to voters, the Bladen Improvement Association was the Republican's parting shot.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":251.88,"start":239.52}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"And the Democrat, Dan McCready, well, this wasn't the first time he dodged talking about the PAC.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":258.57,"start":251.88}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Throughout the race, local reporters who covered the cheating story had been asking McCready, are you working with the Bladen Improvement Association now, or did you ever?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":268.2,"start":258.57}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"And Dan McCready was, like, mm mm, nope.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":270.75,"start":268.2}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING (DAN MCCREADY)^","text":"I've not worked with them.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":273.66,"start":270.75}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING^","text":"While campaign finance records show he has not donated to them before, we asked Dan McCready if he planned on working with the group for the next election.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":281.28,"start":273.66}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING (DAN MCCREADY)^","text":"It's not something I've thought about.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":282.63,"start":281.28}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING (DAN MCCREADY)^","text":"I have not really worked with them.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":285.6,"start":282.63}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"It sounded like McCready considered the PAC a liability.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":292.83,"start":288.72}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"And it also sounded like he was saying he'd never even met those guys, which made Horace really mad, Horace and Cogdell, actually.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":300.99,"start":292.83}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"During the first congressional race, the one that ultimately got thrown out, the PAC's relationship to the McCready campaign was the normal stuff.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":309.1,"start":300.99}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"He's a Democrat.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":310.11,"start":309.1}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"They support Democratic candidates.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":312,"start":310.11}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"They endorsed McCready on their sample ballot, mobilized their get out the vote machine for him and for everyone else.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":319.21,"start":312}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"But once the allegations of fraud by McCrae Dowless started to get out, members of the PAC started getting calls from Black voters who were upset, who said they thought their votes have been tampered with by McCrae's workers.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":333.33,"start":319.21}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"So the PAC members who received those calls, motivated in part to bring down Republican operative McCrae Dowless, they went to some of those voters' homes.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":343.08,"start":333.33}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Told them, hey, this is wrong what happened to you.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":345.93,"start":343.08}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"It's important to speak up.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":347.25,"start":345.93}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Do you want to write up an affidavit?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":349.86,"start":347.25}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Some of those signed affidavits ended up central to the state hearings in Raleigh.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":355.18,"start":349.86}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"It was Democrats around the county who did this, not just PAC members.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":358.77,"start":355.18}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"But those affidavits gotten by Bladen County Improvement members, they were key, a big reason why a new election was called, the special election, in which Democrat Dan McCready was given a second shot to win the district.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":374.29,"start":358.77}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"But as the special election approached, McCready ignored the PAC.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":378.25,"start":374.29}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"And I started to hear about it from Horace.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":381.01,"start":378.25}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"A Democrat, trying to run in Bladen County who not only didn't seek an endorsement from the PAC, seemed to be actively avoiding it, like it was toxic.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":389.83,"start":381.01}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"McCready didn't send money to the PAC for get out the vote.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":392.83,"start":389.83}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"He hired his own people from outside to temporarily live and work in Bladen County.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":398.08,"start":392.83}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"And Horace was offended.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":399.64,"start":398.08}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"This wasn't how he was used to being treated.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":401.59,"start":399.64}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING (HORACE MUNN)^","text":"Once McCready was granted a new election, all of a sudden, he don't want to talk to me.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":406.99,"start":401.59}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING (HORACE MUNN)^","text":"He didn't want to be close to Cogdell.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":408.91,"start":406.99}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Horace says Cogdell told him about this one thing that happened a few months back.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":413.59,"start":408.91}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"This big Democratic gathering of local politicos from across the 9th district to support the McCready campaign --","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":418.298,"start":413.59}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING (HORACE MUNN)^","text":"They were getting ready to take a picture of him with Cogdell.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":422.382,"start":418.298}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING (HORACE MUNN)^","text":"He stepped away.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":423.07,"start":422.382}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"McCready stepped away and avoided taking a picture with Cogdell, which can be a big deal at local campaign events.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":430.87,"start":423.07}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"And then, according to Horace, McCready wouldn't talk to Cogdell when Cogdell approached him.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":436.397,"start":430.87}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING (HORACE MUNN)^","text":"Cogdell, he had a conversation about how he could win election in Bladen County.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":441.23,"start":436.397}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING (HORACE MUNN)^","text":"He said, hey, you deal with my campaign person, who was a kid that didn't know anything about Bladen County.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":448.22,"start":441.23}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING (HORACE MUNN)^","text":"All right?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":449.27,"start":448.22}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING (HORACE MUNN)^","text":"When I found out he had treated Cogdell and I found out that he didn't want to put resources here so we can run his campaign here in Bladen County, he didn't want to deal with us, I called him.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":461.27,"start":449.27}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Horace says he spoke to McCready on the phone.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":463.79,"start":461.27}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING (HORACE MUNN)^","text":"And I told him how appalled I was at what he had done.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":467.54,"start":463.79}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING (HORACE MUNN)^","text":"I said, but I notice how you act as if we are inferior now.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":471.74,"start":467.54}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING (HORACE MUNN)^","text":"But when you wanted a new election, you came to us.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":474.71,"start":471.74}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING (HORACE MUNN)^","text":"And we're the reason you have a new election.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":477.005,"start":474.71}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING (HORACE MUNN)^","text":"I said, from this point forward, don't ever deal with me again.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":479.63,"start":477.005}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[MUSIC]","text":"","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":483.6,"start":479.63}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Horace takes tremendous pride in the voting block the PAC has built. He genuinely believes it's hard for Democrats to get elected in this county without it.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":492.38,"start":483.6}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"And now this Democrat, who Horace and the PAC had supported, was helping to stoke allegations against them by deliberately distancing himself from the group, acting like Bladen Improvement was beneath him.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":505.57,"start":492.38}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"So Horace has decided, if Dan McCready doesn't have our back in public, we won't have his in this election.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":512.539,"start":505.57}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"And in this way, without Horace seeing it, the cheating allegations he's been fending off from the outside would worm their way inside the PAC and start causing havoc.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":522.395,"start":512.539}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"From Serial Productions, it's The Improvement Association, a true story about election fraud.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":536.74,"start":530.64}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"I'm Zoe Chace.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":537.6,"start":536.74}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING (PRENTIS BENSTON)^","text":"Good afternoon to everyone.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":556.36,"start":553.568}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING (PRENTIS BENSTON)^","text":"We're going to go ahead and get started.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":558.67,"start":556.36}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Prentis Benston, the former sheriff of Bladen County, calls the Bladen Improvement Association's monthly meeting to order.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":566.35,"start":558.67}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"We're about a week out from the special election and pretty quickly, the agenda turns to elections-related business.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":573.01,"start":566.35}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Walking in, I feel a wary side-eyedness in the room, like in any group or office where there's been some behind the scenes drama lately, but you haven't all been in a room together for a while.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":584.8,"start":573.01}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"And now you're all meeting and looking at each other, like, are we going to talk about what's been going on, or what?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":591.07,"start":584.8}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[SIDE CONVERSATION]","text":"","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":592.375,"start":591.07}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[SIDE CONVERSATION]","text":"The televised debate between the Dans, the congressional candidates, aired last night.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":596.8,"start":592.375}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[SIDE CONVERSATION]","text":"So with that hovering over the meeting, Horace takes over.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":601.09,"start":596.8}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING (HORACE MUNN)^","text":"This special election has turned out to be one of the most unique elections I've been a part of.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":608.96,"start":601.09}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"He has news.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":610.34,"start":608.96}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"The special election is considered tight.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":612.62,"start":610.34}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"And apparently, in these last few weeks, someone from McCready's campaign has started calling members of the PAC to ask them to help out with the election.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":621.272,"start":612.62}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING (HORACE MUNN)^","text":"But evidently, whoever is calling, they're working their way around me.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":625.73,"start":621.272}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING (HORACE MUNN)^","text":"So with that said, I'm not sure where we stand right now with this election.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":634.983,"start":629.03}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING (HORACE MUNN)^","text":"I don't know why things are happening the way they happen.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":637.4,"start":634.983}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING (HORACE MUNN)^","text":"It's a situation there, like I say, I've never experienced before.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":640.75,"start":637.4}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Meaning, I've never seen a Democrat politician blow us off like this and think they can win in Bladen County.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":647.86,"start":640.75}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Horace says, speaking just for me personally, as Horace, not as head of the organization, the way I feel --","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":654.67,"start":647.86}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING (HORACE MUNN)^","text":"If the individuals out here supporting in this campaign or the one running don't want our support, me personally, I think let them pull the red wagon.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":663.43,"start":654.67}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Let them pull the red wagon.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":666.25,"start":663.43}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Means, you made your bed.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":667.69,"start":666.25}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Now lie in it.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":669.27,"start":667.69}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"If someone wants our support, but won't approach us directly because they're ashamed or embarrassed or whatever, screw them.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":676.99,"start":669.27}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING (HORACE MUNN)^","text":"I think that this organization has been disrespected.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":681.96,"start":676.99}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING (HORACE MUNN)^","text":"That's how I feel.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":683.91,"start":681.96}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"And with that, Horace hands it over to Cogdell, the storyteller of the two of them.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":689.23,"start":683.91}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING (MICHAEL COGDELL)^","text":"The only thing that I want --","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":692.105,"start":689.23}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Cogdell starts by saying he wishes the Democrat Dan McCready well and doesn't have a vendetta against anybody.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":697.8,"start":692.105}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"But -- and it goes from quiet to quiet.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":702.48,"start":697.8}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"As Cogdell picks up speed, his story turns into a one man play, with him acting out the increasingly frantic phone calls he's been getting from the Democrats about getting out the vote for Dan McCready.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":712.11,"start":702.48}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING (MICHAEL COGDELL)^","text":"I'm sitting in the house, 11, 12 o'clock at night.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":715.86,"start":712.11}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING (MICHAEL COGDELL)^","text":"And somebody called me, Mike, hey, I need your help.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":720.48,"start":715.86}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING (MICHAEL COGDELL)^","text":"I said, what are you talking about?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":722.37,"start":720.48}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING (MICHAEL COGDELL)^","text":"We got to get the vote out.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":723.81,"start":722.37}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"This guy is calling Cogdell, like, you know, do your get out the vote program that you guys do for Dan McCready.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":729.075,"start":723.81}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING (MICHAEL COGDELL)^","text":"We got plenty of money for gas and all kind of stuff.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":732.95,"start":729.075}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING (MICHAEL COGDELL)^","text":"I said, what are you talking about?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":734.408,"start":732.95}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING (MICHAEL COGDELL)^","text":"Well, we got some money.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":735.68,"start":734.408}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING (MICHAEL COGDELL)^","text":"You can do some work, if you want to haul people to the polls and do what you need to do.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":739.53,"start":735.68}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING (MICHAEL COGDELL)^","text":"I say, you calling mighty late on this.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":742.32,"start":739.53}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Cogdell's, like, uh, no.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":743.88,"start":742.32}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"The election is in about a week.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":745.6,"start":743.88}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"And we haven't mobilized at all to help McCready, because you guys didn't want us to do that.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":750.42,"start":745.6}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"If you'd given us money for gas stipends and food, we'd have people knocking on doors and working the polls.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":756.48,"start":750.42}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"It's a whole machine.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":757.77,"start":756.48}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"We know how to crank up our machine.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":759.3,"start":757.77}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"But the machine's not cranked.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":761.28,"start":759.3}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"And we're not inclined to crank it for you now.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":763.47,"start":761.28}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING (MICHAEL COGDELL)^","text":"Then I get another phone call.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":765.72,"start":763.47}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING (MICHAEL COGDELL)^","text":"We got plenty of money, man.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":766.92,"start":765.72}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING (MICHAEL COGDELL)^","text":"Don't worry about the money.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":768.66,"start":766.92}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING (MICHAEL COGDELL)^","text":"We can get you gas.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":769.74,"start":768.66}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING (MICHAEL COGDELL)^","text":"We can come out and feed them, do a meal for them.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":772.56,"start":769.74}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING (MICHAEL COGDELL)^","text":"We can do a party for them.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":774.54,"start":772.56}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING (MICHAEL COGDELL)^","text":"We got plenty money.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":776.4,"start":774.54}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Cogdell says he reminded this guy that McCready had chosen to hire other people to get out the vote in Bladen, outsiders.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":783.99,"start":776.4}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"So the Bladen Improvement PAC was, yeah, sitting this one out.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":789.193,"start":783.99}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING (MICHAEL COGDELL)^","text":"So he said, well, what are we going to do?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":792.61,"start":789.193}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING (MICHAEL COGDELL)^","text":"I said, well, the people he gave the money for need to be trying to figure that out.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":796.8,"start":792.61}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING (MICHAEL COGDELL)^","text":"That's not for me to think out.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":798.63,"start":796.8}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING (MICHAEL COGDELL)^","text":"Because I'm not going to lose my sleep and time running at him, starting the next couple of days.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":804.06,"start":798.63}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING (MICHAEL COGDELL)^","text":"But I will encourage people to go vote and tell them to go vote.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":807.69,"start":804.06}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING (MICHAEL COGDELL)^","text":"But as far as me running around, chasing somebody, talking about lining up some gas, and doing this, and doing that --","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":813.33,"start":807.69}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING (MICHAEL COGDELL)^","text":"they told me they had that all figured out.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":816.72,"start":813.33}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING (MICHAEL COGDELL)^","text":"And I left it just that way.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":819.21,"start":816.72}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Prentis and Horace are nodding their heads.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":822.03,"start":819.21}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Cogdell's wife Barbara is nodding next to them.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":825.48,"start":822.03}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"The purpose of this whole part of the meeting seems to be to rally this room behind him and Horace, to get everyone to sign off on Horace and Cogdell's grudge against McCready, and their decision to have the PAC sit on its hands rather than help them.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":839.14,"start":825.48}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"But not everyone here is with Cogdell.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":841.95,"start":839.14}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Minnie Price, the treasurer of the PAC, breaks in.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":845.75,"start":841.95}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING (MINNIE PRICE)^","text":"Are we, as Democrats in here, are we supporting McCready?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":850.23,"start":845.75}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING (MICHAEL COGDELL)^","text":"I support him.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":852.48,"start":850.23}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"The three guys who basically run this meeting, Horace, Cogdell and Prentis, all jump at once to answer the question and, it seems, try to keep her from putting out a whole new perspective on this.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":861.538,"start":852.48}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"But Minnie pushes through that.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":862.83,"start":861.538}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING (MINNIE PRICE)^","text":"Well, I volunteered.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":865.205,"start":862.83}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING (MINNIE PRICE)^","text":"I made phone calls.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":866.28,"start":865.205}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING (MINNIE PRICE)^","text":"I've been down there four different times.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":868.17,"start":866.28}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING (MINNIE PRICE)^","text":"I made phone calls.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":868.98,"start":868.17}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING (MINNIE PRICE)^","text":"And I plan to go back again.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":870.66,"start":868.98}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING (MICHAEL COGDELL)^","text":"Minnie, please --","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":871.47,"start":870.66}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING (MINNIE PRICE)^","text":"I'm not looking for any money.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":872.97,"start":871.47}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING (MICHAEL COGDELL)^","text":"Minnie, please, let me understand this.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":874.05,"start":872.97}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING (MINNIE PRICE)^","text":"Well, we need a Democrat in Washington, D.C., not a Republican.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":878.25,"start":874.05}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING (HORACE MUNN)^","text":"When the guy talked to me, I said he missed -- he made a misperception of what he was doing.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":883.29,"start":878.25}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING (HORACE MUNN)^","text":"We know how to get the vote out.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":884.85,"start":883.29}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING (HORACE MUNN)^","text":"And we can get people to go to the polls.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":886.08,"start":884.85}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING (MINNIE PRICE)^","text":"Yeah, but if --","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":886.64,"start":886.08}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING (MICHAEL COGDELL)^","text":"But wait a minute.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":887.12,"start":886.64}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING (MICHAEL COGDELL)^","text":"Wait a minute.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":887.946,"start":887.12}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING (MICHAEL COGDELL)^","text":"Ma'am, let me hear --","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":890.002,"start":887.946}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING (MICHAEL COGDELL)^","text":"let me tell you for a minute.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":891.21,"start":890.002}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING (MICHAEL COGDELL)^","text":"I understand, ma'am.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":891.66,"start":891.21}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING (MICHAEL COGDELL)^","text":"Go ahead.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":892.225,"start":891.66}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING (MINNIE PRICE)^","text":"Well, I was talking and then he interrupted me.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":895.435,"start":892.225}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING (MICHAEL COGDELL)^","text":"You finish.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":895.71,"start":895.435}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING (MICHAEL COGDELL)^","text":"You finish.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":896.9,"start":895.71}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING (MINNIE PRICE)^","text":"I was talking.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":897.79,"start":896.9}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING (MINNIE PRICE)^","text":"He interrupted me.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":898.26,"start":897.79}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING (MICHAEL COGDELL)^","text":"You finish.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":898.98,"start":898.26}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING (MICHAEL COGDELL)^","text":"You finish.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":899.48,"start":898.98}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING (MINNIE PRICE)^","text":"OK.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":901.77,"start":899.48}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING (MINNIE PRICE)^","text":"What I'm saying is this.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":904.83,"start":901.77}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING (MINNIE PRICE)^","text":"I'm making phone calls to people to support Dan McCready.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":910.17,"start":904.83}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING (MINNIE PRICE)^","text":"And I am not working for any money.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":913.35,"start":910.17}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING (MINNIE PRICE)^","text":"I'm volunteering.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":914.82,"start":913.35}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING (MINNIE PRICE)^","text":"This is my fifth time or being down there making phone calls to people that have not been out to vote.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":922.22,"start":914.82}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING (MINNIE PRICE)^","text":"And if Dan McCready said that he does not want to be associated with the Bladen County Improvement, I don't blame him.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":931.65,"start":922.22}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING (MINNIE PRICE)^","text":"Because our name is out there.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":934.98,"start":931.65}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING (MINNIE PRICE)^","text":"It's in Raleigh.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":936.87,"start":934.98}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING (MINNIE PRICE)^","text":"If I'm trying to win an election, I don't want to be associated with somebody that's been accused of doing something while I'm trying to win a campaign.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":947.46,"start":936.87}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING (MINNIE PRICE)^","text":"And we need to, as Democrats, we need to support the Democratic --","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":951.52,"start":947.46}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING^","text":"Hold on.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":952.77,"start":951.52}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING^","text":"Now --","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":953.01,"start":952.77}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING (MINNIE PRICE)^","text":"-- let me finish talking.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":954.3,"start":953.01}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING^","text":"Let her finish.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":954.671,"start":954.3}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING (MINNIE PRICE)^","text":"Let me finish talking.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":956.22,"start":954.671}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"There's more interrupting.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":957.762,"start":956.22}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"But Minnie says she wants to make this clear.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":960.69,"start":957.762}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"We're damaged goods right now because of our association with that whole fraud hearing up in Raleigh.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":967.02,"start":960.69}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Take yourselves out of this.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":968.43,"start":967.02}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Put your egos aside.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":969.93,"start":968.43}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Look at the bigger fight.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":971.1,"start":969.93}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING (MINNIE PRICE)^","text":"And I just think that we as an organization, whether we get any money or not from him, that as Democrats that we need to support him.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":983.67,"start":971.1}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Horace responds in a way I think he was hoping not to at the beginning, like, mad.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":988.005,"start":983.67}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING (HORACE MUNN)^","text":"I solicit funding for this organization to operate.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":991.63,"start":988.005}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING (HORACE MUNN)^","text":"I cannot -- it takes a budget of about $9,000 to hire workers to do early voting and to hire workers to work the polls every day during elections.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1000.38,"start":991.63}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING (HORACE MUNN)^","text":"This organization cannot fund --","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1001.73,"start":1000.38}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Horace is shouting this budget information at Minnie, the treasurer of the PAC.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1006.77,"start":1001.73}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"His leadership is being questioned here.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1008.437,"start":1006.77}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING (HORACE MUNN)^","text":"So --","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1010.145,"start":1008.437}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"You think we should help McCready, he says, even though his campaign didn't give us any money for get out the vote operation?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1016.07,"start":1010.145}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Didn't think that was important to shore up that vote here?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1019.19,"start":1016.07}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"You think people in this poor county should work for free for Dan McCready, just because this dude is a Democrat?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1024.47,"start":1019.19}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING (MINNIE PRICE)^","text":"I'm not talking about that, Horace.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1027.47,"start":1024.47}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING (MINNIE PRICE)^","text":"I'm the treasurer.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1028.339,"start":1027.47}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING (MINNIE PRICE)^","text":"So I know what you do.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1029.569,"start":1028.339}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING (MINNIE PRICE)^","text":"I'm the treasurer.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1030.38,"start":1029.569}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING (MINNIE PRICE)^","text":"I handle the money.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1031.609,"start":1030.38}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING (MINNIE PRICE)^","text":"When you get it in, it comes to me.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1033.77,"start":1031.609}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING (MINNIE PRICE)^","text":"I know.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1035.18,"start":1033.77}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING (MINNIE PRICE)^","text":"Like I stated before, if he does not want to be associated with Bladen County Improvement, don't worry about it.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1041.45,"start":1035.18}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING (HORACE MUNN)^","text":"So you think it's OK for him to not want to be associated with the organization, then come get the members and say, I want you to work with me, but not explain what's the issue?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1048.119,"start":1041.45}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING^","text":"I think what Miss Minnie is trying to say is that we should vote Democrat.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1052.119,"start":1048.119}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING^","text":"That he's the Democrat candidate.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1053.84,"start":1052.119}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING^","text":"And that we should vote for him.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1055.25,"start":1053.84}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Another woman jumps in to try to calm things down.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1058.01,"start":1055.25}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Like, hey, we're all Democrats here, right?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1060.23,"start":1058.01}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"We're on the same side.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1061.67,"start":1060.23}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"But then, that makes Cogdell explode.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1063.74,"start":1061.67}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING (MICHAEL COGDELL)^","text":"Yo.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1063.95,"start":1063.74}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING (MICHAEL COGDELL)^","text":"Yo.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1064.25,"start":1063.95}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING (MICHAEL COGDELL)^","text":"Yo.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1064.75,"start":1064.25}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING (MICHAEL COGDELL)^","text":"Wait a minute.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1065.36,"start":1064.75}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING (MICHAEL COGDELL)^","text":"Now wait a minute.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1066.16,"start":1065.36}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING (MICHAEL COGDELL)^","text":"You're saying something here that ain't making no sense at all.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1069.5,"start":1066.16}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING (MICHAEL COGDELL)^","text":"Just because you're a Democrat and you can't deal with what my perspective is, doesn't mean I have to vote for you.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1075.275,"start":1069.5}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING^","text":"Amen.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1076.4,"start":1075.275}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[INTERPOSING VOICES]","text":"","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1078.68,"start":1076.4}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"People who agree with Cogdell start laughing, and yes anding, and it gets kind of chaotic.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1084.05,"start":1078.68}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Someone else says, aren't we all Democrats?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1086.21,"start":1084.05}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Cogdell's saying, you could be a Democrat and be in the Ku Klux Klan.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1089.42,"start":1086.21}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Doesn't mean I have to vote for you.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1092.27,"start":1089.42}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"That's how Hillary Clinton lost her race in 2016, he says, by just assuming that all the Black people would turn out and vote for her.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1100.01,"start":1092.27}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"You can't just support Democrats.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1101.81,"start":1100.01}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Democrats don't necessarily have Black voters' best interests in mind.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1106.13,"start":1101.81}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"They need to work for our vote, respect us, and deliver on our issues.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1110.42,"start":1106.13}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"And that's what the PAC is for, to hold people accountable to the Black voters here.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1115.076,"start":1110.42}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[BACKGROUND CONVERSATION]","text":"","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1116.36,"start":1115.076}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[MUSIC]","text":"","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1119.44,"start":1116.36}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[MUSIC]","text":"Up until this meeting, I thought the cheating allegations were a problem for the PAC outside this room.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1125.085,"start":1119.44}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[MUSIC]","text":"I hadn't realized how they could pit everyone inside it against each other, even though the allegations weren't true.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1131.27,"start":1125.085}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[MUSIC]","text":"None of them were indicted or even under investigation.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1135.07,"start":1131.27}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[MUSIC]","text":"Not long after this, someone abruptly moves to adjourn.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1138.22,"start":1135.07}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[MUSIC]","text":"And the meeting ends.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1139.84,"start":1138.22}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[MUSIC]","text":"People leave in a hurry.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1141.49,"start":1139.84}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[MUSIC]","text":"There's not some big decision reached, no vote by the group on whether to support McCready, just people storming off to their cars.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1147.925,"start":1141.49}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[MUSIC]","text":"The one PAC person left after everyone's fled to the parking lot is Minnie Price.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1162.77,"start":1157.73}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[MUSIC]","text":"She's still fuming about Horace and Cogdell.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1165.77,"start":1162.77}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[MUSIC]","text":"She's, like, while these guys are posturing about how the Democratic candidate is ignoring Black people, this Republican candidate, Dan Bishop, is going to get in there and be another vote for Trump.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1176.58,"start":1165.77}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[MUSIC]","text":"Which, in Minnie's view, is, like, really not good for Black people.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1179.827,"start":1176.58}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING (MINNIE PRICE)^","text":"We don't need that.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1182.16,"start":1179.827}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING (MINNIE PRICE)^","text":"And I listened to that debate last night, mm mm.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1185.9,"start":1182.16}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING (MINNIE PRICE)^","text":"No.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1186.56,"start":1185.9}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING (MINNIE PRICE)^","text":"And when he brings up something to Dan McCready about Bladen County Improvement Association, no.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1191.42,"start":1186.56}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING (MINNIE PRICE)^","text":"He's doing exactly what Trumps want him to do.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1195.57,"start":1191.42}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING (MINNIE PRICE)^","text":"And he's going to support Trump's agenda.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1198.2,"start":1195.57}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING (MINNIE PRICE)^","text":"We don't need that.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1200.12,"start":1198.2}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING (MINNIE PRICE)^","text":"We're going to be back in slavery again.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1204.68,"start":1200.12}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING (MINNIE PRICE)^","text":"No.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1205.34,"start":1204.68}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING (MINNIE PRICE)^","text":"We're just celebrating 400 years?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1208.7,"start":1205.34}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING (MINNIE PRICE)^","text":"We're going to be back there.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1210.41,"start":1208.7}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING (MINNIE PRICE)^","text":"We're going to be back there with Trump in Washington, D.C.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1214.97,"start":1210.41}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"She sees Horace and Cogdell's whole thing with not supporting McCready as just petty revenge for Cogdell's hurt feelings from that picture McCready supposedly wouldn't take.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1225.02,"start":1214.97}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"She doesn't buy at all the principled argument that standing back is going to teach Democrats a lesson about taking the Black vote for granted.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1232.46,"start":1225.02}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"And she totally gets McCready's calculation about the PAC, that the PAC is damaged goods.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1236.508,"start":1232.46}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING (MINNIE PRICE)^","text":"I can't blame him.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1238.8,"start":1236.508}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING (MINNIE PRICE)^","text":"I don't blame him at all.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1240.38,"start":1238.8}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING (MINNIE PRICE)^","text":"If I was running to try to win an election, I wouldn't want to be associated with Bladen County Improvement Association, either.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1247.19,"start":1240.38}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING (MINNIE PRICE)^","text":"Because our name, the Bladen County Improvement PAC name is in Raleigh.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1253.85,"start":1247.19}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING (MINNIE PRICE)^","text":"It is out there.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1255.17,"start":1253.85}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING (MINNIE PRICE)^","text":"And people got that in their mind, that we did something wrong.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1259.89,"start":1255.17}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING (MINNIE PRICE)^","text":"Even though we did not do anything, they didn't find anything wrong that we did, our name is out there.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1267.14,"start":1259.89}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"It turns out Minnie has much bigger issues with Horace and Cogdell than the McCready thing.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1272.78,"start":1267.14}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Which should worry Horace and Cogdell, because Minnie, with her big leather briefcase and her ever present notebook, is a political force in Bladen County, all on her own, separate from the PAC.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1284.615,"start":1272.78}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"She's 77-years-old, secretary of the local NAACP chapter, and she's a very busy person.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1291.62,"start":1284.615}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"She goes to every town meeting, every county commission meeting, every board of education meeting.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1296.88,"start":1291.62}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"She runs this nonprofit.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1298.7,"start":1296.88}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"And she founded this intense charter school, the one and only public military charter school in the state.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1304.4,"start":1298.7}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"That's where we're meeting, actually, in that school building.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1307.91,"start":1304.4}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Occasionally, a bugle blurts out, telling cadets to change classes.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1313.28,"start":1307.91}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Minnie knows people in Bladen.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1315.02,"start":1313.28}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"She has influence.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1316.46,"start":1315.02}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"And Minnie will say how she feels about something or someone.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1320.75,"start":1316.46}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"And she's been mad at Horace, she tells me.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1323.54,"start":1320.75}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"We talked about it a little later.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1325.008,"start":1323.54}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"This is what she said to him not long before that meeting.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1327.425,"start":1325.008}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING (MINNIE PRICE)^","text":"I told him, you are a dictator.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1330.258,"start":1327.425}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Well, the group of them, Horace, Cogdell, Prentis and their buddy, Arthur Bullock, another county commissioner.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1336.74,"start":1330.258}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING (MINNIE PRICE)^","text":"They have this controlling thing, Horace and Cogdell.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1341.39,"start":1336.74}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING (MINNIE PRICE)^","text":"They want to control everything.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1344.12,"start":1341.39}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING (MINNIE PRICE)^","text":"When you in a meeting, you don't want to be the one that people think you always causing a problem about something.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1350.54,"start":1344.12}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING (MINNIE PRICE)^","text":"But it just got to the point where we just got fed up with sitting here with stuff being shoved down our throats.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1358.22,"start":1350.54}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"The McCready thing is just the latest in a string of decisions that Minnie felt the members had no real say in.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1364.61,"start":1358.22}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"It was her breaking point.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1366.5,"start":1364.61}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Her view for the last few years is that the four of those guys have been treating the PAC like their fiefdom.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1372.65,"start":1366.5}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"The members are basically foot soldiers that the guys expect will do as they're told.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1377.33,"start":1372.65}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Minnie says it seems to her that the four of them get together before Bladen Improvement meetings and decide what the Bladen Improvement will do, whom it will support, whom it will never support, who needs to wait their turn.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1389.3,"start":1377.33}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"The strategy stuff, like, we're not doing absentee ballots this year, or we are.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1395.07,"start":1389.3}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"The way Minnie describes it, when she joined the organization, it felt more connected to the community, more about uplift.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1402.84,"start":1395.07}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"She says the PAC would educate voters.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1404.97,"start":1402.84}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"It would do outreach to inform Black people in Bladen County who the candidates were, who might have their best interests at heart.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1411.78,"start":1404.97}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Horace and Cogdell, she thinks, have curved inward, just talk to each other about what's in the best interests of Black voters and then try to steamroll everyone else into going along.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1422.52,"start":1411.78}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ZOE CHACE^","text":"In the beginning, 15 years ago, you liked the idea of the PAC.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1426.862,"start":1422.52}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^MINNIE PRICE^","text":"It was great.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1428.07,"start":1426.862}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ZOE CHACE^","text":"Tell me.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1428.945,"start":1428.07}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ZOE CHACE^","text":"Tell me about that part.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1430.8,"start":1428.945}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^MINNIE PRICE^","text":"It was a different set of people.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1433.21,"start":1430.8}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^MINNIE PRICE^","text":"Horace was not the president.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1435.45,"start":1433.21}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^MINNIE PRICE^","text":"His daddy used to be involved.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1437.52,"start":1435.45}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^MINNIE PRICE^","text":"And there are people who are saying that if his daddy only knew what he was doing back here now, he'd be turning over in his grave.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1444.36,"start":1437.52}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^MINNIE PRICE^","text":"He wouldn't like it at all.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1446.04,"start":1444.36}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^MINNIE PRICE^","text":"Because he was different.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1447.7,"start":1446.04}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^MINNIE PRICE^","text":"He was not like Horace.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1449.07,"start":1447.7}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ZOE CHACE^","text":"Different how?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1450.613,"start":1449.07}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^MINNIE PRICE^","text":"Nicer.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1451.53,"start":1450.613}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^MINNIE PRICE^","text":"He was, you know, help people.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1453.36,"start":1451.53}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"I ran Minnie's complaints past Horace.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1455.79,"start":1453.36}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"He wasn't that bothered by them.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1457.29,"start":1455.79}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Said she was just blowing off steam.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1459.81,"start":1457.29}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"I will say, Horace does help people.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1462.87,"start":1459.81}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"He'll do unasked for favors.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1464.79,"start":1462.87}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"He's a generous neighbor.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1466.53,"start":1464.79}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"But anyway, Minnie's fed up.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1468.6,"start":1466.53}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"She's gotten to the point where she's questioning the PAC's core goal of a unified Black vote --","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1473.76,"start":1468.6}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"if unity is just code for do whatever Horace says.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1478.68,"start":1473.76}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ZOE CHACE^","text":"Do you think that it's possible that the PAC, the PAC's power is in how many people vote along the same lines.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1486.57,"start":1478.68}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ZOE CHACE^","text":"The PAC's power's that sample ballot.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1489.175,"start":1486.57}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^MINNIE PRICE^","text":"Yeah.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1490.05,"start":1489.175}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ZOE CHACE^","text":"Do you think that, with this kind of division, that the PAC could lose its power.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1496.11,"start":1490.05}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^MINNIE PRICE^","text":"I think so.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1497.59,"start":1496.11}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^MINNIE PRICE^","text":"And I think it's losing its power.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1500.16,"start":1497.59}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^MINNIE PRICE^","text":"I think so.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1501.36,"start":1500.16}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^MINNIE PRICE^","text":"And it's really because of Horace.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1504.11,"start":1501.36}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^MINNIE PRICE^","text":"I think it is because of Horace and the way that he does things.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1508.98,"start":1504.11}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^MINNIE PRICE^","text":"I think so.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1511.25,"start":1508.98}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^MINNIE PRICE^","text":"Yeah.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1512.66,"start":1511.25}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ZOE CHACE^","text":"Do you think there will be some kind of a loss to this county if this PAC falls apart?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1518.66,"start":1512.66}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^MINNIE PRICE^","text":"No.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1519.92,"start":1518.66}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^MINNIE PRICE^","text":"I don't.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1520.425,"start":1519.92}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ZOE CHACE^","text":"Why not?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1521.3,"start":1520.425}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[BUGLE PLAYING]","text":"","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1521.63,"start":1521.3}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^MINNIE PRICE^","text":"Because a lot of people don't understand it, anyway.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1524.463,"start":1521.63}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^MINNIE PRICE^","text":"A lot of people don't understand what the PAC is anyway and what they are doing.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1533.55,"start":1528.94}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ZOE CHACE^","text":"But you do.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1534.55,"start":1533.55}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^MINNIE PRICE^","text":"I understand.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1535.758,"start":1534.55}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^MINNIE PRICE^","text":"Yeah, I do.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1537.88,"start":1535.758}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"I wanted to know if Minnie minded, basically, that by criticizing the PAC or not supporting the PAC, she'd actually be helping the white political interests around here, too.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1549.37,"start":1537.88}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ZOE CHACE^","text":"I think some white people are scared of the PAC because of Black political power.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1554.41,"start":1549.37}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^MINNIE PRICE^","text":"Yeah.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1555.37,"start":1554.41}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^MINNIE PRICE^","text":"They are.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1556.72,"start":1555.37}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^MINNIE PRICE^","text":"That's why they tried to make that report, to try to find something against the PAC.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1561.52,"start":1556.72}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^MINNIE PRICE^","text":"That's what they did it for.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1563.3,"start":1561.52}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^MINNIE PRICE^","text":"But they didn't find anything wrong.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1567.44,"start":1563.3}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"She means the accusations against the PAC at the state hearing.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1570.62,"start":1567.44}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ZOE CHACE^","text":"Well, if the PAC falls apart, though, I mean, those white people will be happy.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1578.1,"start":1570.62}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^MINNIE PRICE^","text":"They will be.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1579.42,"start":1578.1}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^MINNIE PRICE^","text":"They will be.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1580.08,"start":1579.42}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^MINNIE PRICE^","text":"Because they want it --","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1581.37,"start":1580.08}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^MINNIE PRICE^","text":"they want it to fall apart.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1582.93,"start":1581.37}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ZOE CHACE^","text":"Well, how does that make you feel?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1584.888,"start":1582.93}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^MINNIE PRICE^","text":"You know, it doesn't make me feel bad.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1595.41,"start":1588.13}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^MINNIE PRICE^","text":"It really doesn't.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1596.55,"start":1595.41}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^MINNIE PRICE^","text":"It doesn't make me feel bad.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1597.9,"start":1596.55}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^MINNIE PRICE^","text":"Because maybe it'll make the people that's involved in it think about what they did, think about what they are doing, to do things different.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1608.494,"start":1597.9}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Minnie, after years of frustration, thinks that if the Bladen Improvement PAC loses some power, well, so be it.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1619.86,"start":1611.4}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Might be good.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1621.56,"start":1619.86}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Maybe that'll teach Horace and those guys a lesson.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1623.88,"start":1621.56}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"The actual day of the do over election, the special election to elect a new Congressman in Bladen's district, it was pretty quiet, sunny, breezy, slow.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1639.63,"start":1628.56}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"The results were in early.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1641.04,"start":1639.63}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"And it wasn't close.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1643.05,"start":1641.04}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING (TANYA RIVERA)^","text":"Hello, everyone.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1643.81,"start":1643.05}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING (TANYA RIVERA)^","text":"I'm Tanya Rivera.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1644.64,"start":1643.81}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING (TANYA RIVERA)^","text":"Thank you for joining us.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1645.69,"start":1644.64}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING (TANYA RIVERA)^","text":"Republican Dan Bishop has won North Carolina's special election.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1650.1,"start":1645.69}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING (TANYA RIVERA)^","text":"Bishop will now represent the state's 9th congressional district.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1653.94,"start":1650.1}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING (TANYA RIVERA)^","text":"This red district will remain in GOP hands.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1657.93,"start":1653.94}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Democrat Dan McCready lost to the Republican, Dan Bishop.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1662.22,"start":1657.93}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"And there were no signs of election fraud this time.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1665.06,"start":1662.22}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING (TANYA RIVERA)^","text":"President Trump held a rally for Bishop the night before the election.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1668.35,"start":1665.06}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING (TANYA RIVERA)^","text":"Bishop linked --","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1669.29,"start":1668.35}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^HORACE MUNN^","text":"You know what?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1670.06,"start":1669.29}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ZOE CHACE^","text":"Hang on.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1670.935,"start":1670.06}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ZOE CHACE^","text":"Let me get my phone ready.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1672.72,"start":1670.935}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Horace called me after results were in.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1674.97,"start":1672.72}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"I was driving.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1675.633,"start":1674.97}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ZOE CHACE^","text":"Tell the truth.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1676.8,"start":1675.633}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ZOE CHACE^","text":"Are you a little bit excited that Dan McCready lost?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1680.25,"start":1676.8}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^HORACE MUNN^","text":"Well, I don't want to say --","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1683.78,"start":1681.988}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^HORACE MUNN^","text":"I'm not going to say I'm excited.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1684.74,"start":1683.78}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^HORACE MUNN^","text":"I can't use that word.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1685.963,"start":1684.74}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ZOE CHACE^","text":"OK.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1687.9,"start":1685.963}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^HORACE MUNN^","text":"There's another word I could use.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1689.9,"start":1687.9}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^HORACE MUNN^","text":"I feel vindicated.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1695.54,"start":1693.44}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ZOE CHACE^","text":"Yeah.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1697.89,"start":1695.54}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Vindicated.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1699.75,"start":1697.89}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Horace has a pretty clear analysis for why McCready lost.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1702.93,"start":1699.75}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^HORACE MUNN^","text":"What he did was he distanced himself from the Blacks, he was willing to take a chance on losing a few Black votes to get a few white votes.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1714.94,"start":1702.93}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^HORACE MUNN^","text":"But they always think the Blacks, well, they gonna go along.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1719.61,"start":1714.94}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ZOE CHACE^","text":"They'll just take you for granted?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1722.27,"start":1719.61}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"It's not like Horace wanted a Republican to win the seat.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1725.99,"start":1722.27}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"But then, again, it is kind of what Horace wanted.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1729.09,"start":1725.99}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"He says to me, am I gloating?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1732.206,"start":1729.09}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^HORACE MUNN^","text":"Am I gloating?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1733.425,"start":1732.206}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ZOE CHACE^","text":"Yeah, are you?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1734.55,"start":1733.425}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^HORACE MUNN^","text":"Hm.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1736.19,"start":1734.55}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^HORACE MUNN^","text":"I don't know.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1737.24,"start":1736.19}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^HORACE MUNN^","text":"But am I upset about the election?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1738.69,"start":1737.24}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^HORACE MUNN^","text":"No.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1739.69,"start":1738.69}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[LAUGHS]","text":"","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1741.69,"start":1739.69}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[LAUGHS]","text":"No.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1742.19,"start":1741.69}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[LAUGHS]","text":"I'm not.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1744.67,"start":1742.19}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[LAUGHS]","text":"And the next person from Bladen County that want to disrespect people, the same thing will happen.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1752.901,"start":1744.67}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[LAUGHS]","text":"They're not going to get the vote.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1754.48,"start":1752.901}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[TURN SIGNAL CLICKING]","text":"","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1756.34,"start":1754.48}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[TURN SIGNAL CLICKING]","text":"I would rather lose the battle and win the war.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1760.36,"start":1756.34}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"The battle is just a congressional seat.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1763.03,"start":1760.36}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"The war is whether those politicians are listening to and accountable to Black voters.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1768.91,"start":1763.03}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"And the way that happens in Bladen County, that's through the Bladen Improvement PAC and its voting bloc.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1774.85,"start":1768.91}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"That's the lesson Horace thinks McCready learned this election.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1778.33,"start":1774.85}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"The hard way, he'd say.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1780.13,"start":1778.33}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^HORACE MUNN^","text":"We refuse to be compromised by anyone.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1785.98,"start":1780.13}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^HORACE MUNN^","text":"We refuse.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1788.61,"start":1785.98}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^HORACE MUNN^","text":"Yeah.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1789.11,"start":1788.61}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^HORACE MUNN^","text":"Yeah.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1789.61,"start":1789.11}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^HORACE MUNN^","text":"I'm fully satisfied with the election.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1791.57,"start":1789.61}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^HORACE MUNN^","text":"And hey, you know, sometimes you win.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1794.195,"start":1791.57}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^HORACE MUNN^","text":"Sometimes you lose.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1796.43,"start":1794.195}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^HORACE MUNN^","text":"But sometimes, you're made a fool.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1799.814,"start":1796.43}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[LAUGHTER]","text":"","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1805.51,"start":1799.814}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Many months later, I spoke to Dan McCready.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1808.69,"start":1805.51}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"He admitted, yes, he distanced himself from the PAC.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1812.35,"start":1808.69}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"I had to, he said.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1813.58,"start":1812.35}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"It didn't look good because of all these public accusations.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1817.96,"start":1813.58}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"I was advised, even by people in Bladen, not to work with the Bladen Improvement PAC.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1823.27,"start":1817.96}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"McCready said he didn't remember an angry call with Horace, when Horace told him never to reach out to him again.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1829.15,"start":1823.27}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"He was upset to hear, now, that members of the PAC were mad at him.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1834.73,"start":1829.15}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Did the PAC's lack of support cost him the election, though?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1838.63,"start":1834.73}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"McCready didn't think so.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1840.34,"start":1838.63}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"In the special election, McCready lost by 4,000 votes.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1844.09,"start":1840.34}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"It's very hard to imagine the PAC, who only operate in Bladen County, conquering that margin.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1850.25,"start":1844.09}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"But the math doesn't really matter, not here, in terms of how the results of this election still exploded things in Bladen County.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1858.76,"start":1850.25}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"There were Black Democrats who were really mad about how Horace and Cogdell handled the Dan McCready race.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1864.34,"start":1858.76}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Minnie and a group of seven or eight others, mainly women, quit the PAC after that meeting where they got in a fight.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1871.51,"start":1864.34}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"But Horace and Cogdell weren't chagrined by that at all, the opposite.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1876.1,"start":1871.51}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"For them, if the feeling was out there that because they stayed out of the race, McCready lost, good.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1882.7,"start":1876.1}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"That proves their point that McCready shouldn't take the Black vote for granted.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1887.38,"start":1882.7}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"They felt the McCready result confirmed how well they knew their county and knew the voters they were trying to lead, that they were on the right track, basically.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1895.84,"start":1887.38}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"And so they turned their attention to their next political fight, to try something they'd never tried before, a pretty major power shift if they could pull it off.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1905.08,"start":1895.84}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"If anyone could pull it off, it would be these two.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1907.39,"start":1905.08}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"That was their attitude.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1909.76,"start":1907.39}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"After proclaiming that McCready had taken the Black vote for granted, Horace and Cogdell walked right into that same trap.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1917.96,"start":1909.76}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"That's after the break.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1918.92,"start":1917.96}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Now Minnie Price's position on Horace and Cogdell is they're bullies and they're out of touch.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1935.35,"start":1928.39}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Horace and Cogdell, of course, feel like, no.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1938.38,"start":1935.35}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"They are the ones who get it, in a place where some people, like Minnie, do not understand how to build Black political power.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1946.1,"start":1938.38}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"They're putting their skills to the test in this little petri dish of an election that hits just two months after the McCready race was over and done.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1953.9,"start":1946.1}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Horace and Cogdell are working to change the leadership of the county seat, Elizabethtown.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1959.3,"start":1953.9}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Three seats on the Elizabethtown council are up for grabs.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1962.9,"start":1959.3}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"This isn't about the county, just one town inside the county.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1966.98,"start":1962.9}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"And I only understood why Cogdell in particular would choose to invest in what's actually a very tiny local race when he decided to drive me around Elizabethtown one day.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1975.683,"start":1966.98}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^MICHAEL COGDELL^","text":"Let me see what time it is.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1977.6,"start":1975.683}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^MICHAEL COGDELL^","text":"I got -- come on.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1978.48,"start":1977.6}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^MICHAEL COGDELL^","text":"I'm going to ride you around.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1979.15,"start":1978.48}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^MICHAEL COGDELL^","text":"Get in the car.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1979.57,"start":1979.15}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^MICHAEL COGDELL^","text":"I'm going to ride you around.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1980.24,"start":1979.57}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ZOE CHACE^","text":"Yeah.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1980.58,"start":1980.24}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ZOE CHACE^","text":"Are you sure?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1981.19,"start":1980.58}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^MICHAEL COGDELL^","text":"I'm going to show you what I'm talking about right quick.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1983.69,"start":1981.19}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ZOE CHACE^","text":"OK.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1984.45,"start":1983.69}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Bladen's little towns are mostly --","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1986.48,"start":1984.45}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"a highway runs through, alongside is a gas station, a Hardees, maybe a peanut plant, a dollar store, and then you're out of town --","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1995.15,"start":1986.48}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"America, basically.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1997.16,"start":1995.15}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"But Elizabethtown is the county seat that's got the most going on.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2001.87,"start":1997.16}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Around 3,800 people live here.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2003.94,"start":2001.87}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"It's downtown is a big T, not just the one road running through.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2008.38,"start":2003.94}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"I can sum up Cogdell's tour of Elizabethtown pretty quickly.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2011.72,"start":2008.38}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"It's about who owns what.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2013.24,"start":2011.72}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^HORACE MUNN^","text":"All right.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2013.6,"start":2013.24}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^HORACE MUNN^","text":"Here we go.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2014.29,"start":2013.6}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Four white families own the major commercial plats in Elizabethtown, the Greens, the Crosses, the Clarks and the Campbells.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2021.89,"start":2014.29}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^HORACE MUNN^","text":"All of this stuff you see right here, the Campbells own all that, that building, that building, that block right there.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2029.59,"start":2021.89}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ZOE CHACE^","text":"The Campbells own this block?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2031.34,"start":2029.59}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^HORACE MUNN^","text":"All these businesses that you see right here.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2033.84,"start":2031.34}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"We head down Poplar Street, one of the two main streets.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2036.7,"start":2033.84}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"A handful of older businesses, then KFC, Taco Bell, Bojangles, McDonald's and then Giorgio's, the only real restaurant to speak of where you can actually get a drink.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2046.9,"start":2036.7}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^MICHAEL COGDELL^","text":"This right here is owned by the Clarks, everything on both sides of the street.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2052.69,"start":2046.9}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"It's only five square miles, Elizabethtown, and it takes less than five minutes for Cogdell to sweep his hand over it.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2059.679,"start":2052.69}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"You go down and around, out towards the bypass, which is actually named after a Campbell and we're at the other Main Street, Broad Street.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2067.389,"start":2059.679}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^MICHAEL COGDELL^","text":"Now you look at this all this stuff inside this here, where Walmart at, and all we cross over there, and the restaurants in over there, that belong to the Greens.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2077.35,"start":2067.389}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Cogdell says the four families, they've owned the land for years.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2081.26,"start":2077.35}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Which is his main point.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2082.659,"start":2081.26}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"By owning much of the commercial property in Elizabethtown, these four white families have a lot of control over the commercial economy, what businesses get to come downtown, what kind of jobs are available.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2094.03,"start":2082.659}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Meanwhile, in the Black part of town, a neighborhood called Newtown, almost none of the land is zoned commercial, so people can't open businesses.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2102.67,"start":2094.03}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"There's not much investment, generally.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2105.22,"start":2102.67}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Cogdell's, like, take a look at these messed up roads.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2107.8,"start":2105.22}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"That's how you know Black people live over here.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2111.13,"start":2107.8}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Horace and Cogdell's vision for the election is simple.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2114.31,"start":2111.13}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Get Black people to vote, a lot more than usual.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2117.98,"start":2114.31}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"And then, change the zoning ordinances in Elizabethtown --","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2121.72,"start":2117.98}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Black-owned, thriving businesses, serving Black customers in the Black part of town.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2127,"start":2121.72}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Cogdell believes it's possible because of how many Black people could be voting here.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2131.293,"start":2127}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^MICHAEL COGDELL^","text":"All this is Black district.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2133.21,"start":2131.293}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^MICHAEL COGDELL^","text":"Everything through here's Black.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2135.34,"start":2133.21}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ZOE CHACE^","text":"How many -- what's the ratio of Black to white people in Elizabethtown?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2139.285,"start":2135.34}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^MICHAEL COGDELL^","text":"There's more Black registered voters in Elizabethtown than there is white.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2143.56,"start":2139.285}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^MICHAEL COGDELL^","text":"It's not much, but it's more Black than white.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2146.568,"start":2143.56}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ZOE CHACE^","text":"I just didn't know it was a majority Black town.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2149.11,"start":2146.568}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^MICHAEL COGDELL^","text":"Yeah.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2149.53,"start":2149.11}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^MICHAEL COGDELL^","text":"Majority of the registered voters, there's more registered voters Black than there is white.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2152.86,"start":2149.53}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ZOE CHACE^","text":"But the local, like, the mayor and stuff, are they white?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2155.777,"start":2152.86}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^MICHAEL COGDELL^","text":"All white.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2157.57,"start":2155.777}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^MICHAEL COGDELL^","text":"And it's a seven member board, six members and the mayor.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2162.16,"start":2157.57}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^MICHAEL COGDELL^","text":"Five of them are white and two are Black.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2166.12,"start":2162.16}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^MICHAEL COGDELL^","text":"I mean, it should be the very reverse, if you voted along demographics.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2172.293,"start":2166.12}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ZOE CHACE^","text":"It's just not enough people are voting?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2174.46,"start":2172.293}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^MICHAEL COGDELL^","text":"They just won't vote.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2175.04,"start":2174.46}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^MICHAEL COGDELL^","text":"They don't deal with a municipal election.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2176.9,"start":2175.04}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^MICHAEL COGDELL^","text":"Now you get -- most of the times you move people in the areas during general election, presidential elections.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2181.95,"start":2176.9}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^MICHAEL COGDELL^","text":"They don't usually move on municipal election.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2185.79,"start":2181.95}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"So this is their big plan.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2187.83,"start":2185.79}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Flip the town council.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2190.21,"start":2187.83}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"There are two Black members on the town council already.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2192.78,"start":2190.21}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"And three Black women have declared their candidacy, running against three white incumbents.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2198.69,"start":2192.78}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"The women are all new to politics.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2200.86,"start":2198.69}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"So Horace and Cogdell are very involved in their campaigns.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2205.68,"start":2200.86}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"The PAC, the organization, isn't even working on this as a group, just Horace and Cogdell on their own.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2212.43,"start":2205.68}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"If the women win, Black people will finally have the majority power somewhere in Bladen County.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2218.16,"start":2212.43}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"And five days before the Elizabethtown council election --","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2225.47,"start":2221.73}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^MICHAEL COGDELL^","text":"Zoe!","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2226.47,"start":2225.47}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ZOE CHACE^","text":"How are you doing?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2227.762,"start":2226.47}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"During early voting, I meet up with Cogdell and Horace at a small campaign event.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2232.2,"start":2227.762}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"They've set up a table and a tent.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2233.88,"start":2232.2}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"And some of the candidates are sitting around.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2236.07,"start":2233.88}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"It's a barbecue.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2237.36,"start":2236.07}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Cogdell's enormous smoker is here.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2240.02,"start":2237.36}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"It's on wheels and attaches to the back of Cogdell's truck.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2243.84,"start":2240.02}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"You can smoke the meat when you're driving which, of course, he has.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2248.55,"start":2243.84}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"I drove up in a truck, a rental.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2250.71,"start":2248.55}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"And Cogdell teases me when I walk over.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2253.2,"start":2250.71}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Calls me a redneck.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2254.59,"start":2253.2}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Says all I need is a gun rack on the back.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2258.45,"start":2254.59}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Cogdell's a wisecracker.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2260.1,"start":2258.45}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"He likes to poke.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2261.06,"start":2260.1}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"And with me, it's usually related to being the only white person around, which always manages to tongue tie me.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2268.14,"start":2261.06}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"He launches right into a joke about lynching.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2270.245,"start":2268.14}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^MICHAEL COGDELL^","text":"You get Horace, and you can get killed going back down East Arcadia.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2273.87,"start":2270.245}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^MICHAEL COGDELL^","text":"Every time you see him, he's standing here, talking to a white woman.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2276.24,"start":2273.87}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^MICHAEL COGDELL^","text":"They going to have him hanging up in the tree.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2278.157,"start":2276.24}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^MICHAEL COGDELL^","text":"You're going to be doing the story, Black Man Lynched at East Arcadia.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2281.77,"start":2278.157}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^HORACE MUNN^","text":"And Zoe's going to say, \"I told you you need to watch yourself.\"","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2285.062,"start":2281.77}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[LAUGHTER]","text":"","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2286.005,"start":2285.062}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^MICHAEL COGDELL^","text":"Got a modern day lynching.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2287.88,"start":2286.005}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^MICHAEL COGDELL^","text":"Donald Trump will say, you got to lynch.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2289.547,"start":2287.88}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ZOE CHACE^","text":"This is some Southern jokes.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2291.255,"start":2289.547}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[LAUGHTER]","text":"","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2291.96,"start":2291.255}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[LAUGHTER]","text":"But I don't like it.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2293.68,"start":2291.96}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"He's doing it for Horace, to make him laugh.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2296.76,"start":2293.68}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Horace can be stiff, withdrawn.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2299.01,"start":2296.76}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"But now with Cogdell, he's easily delighted.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2301.71,"start":2299.01}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"He's energized.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2303.63,"start":2301.71}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"I can see how maybe they didn't even mean to start making decisions outside the PAC together.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2309.36,"start":2303.63}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"They just talk so much and big each other up so much.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2313.177,"start":2309.36}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^HORACE MUNN^","text":"Lord.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2314.55,"start":2313.177}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"They're excited about this election plan.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2317.4,"start":2314.55}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Cogdell tells me, when he first talked to Horace about backing these women for town council, he pitched it like, look at Ferguson, Missouri, where Michael Brown was shot.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2328.17,"start":2317.4}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Horace and Cogdell describe to me how, after that happened, the Black citizens of Ferguson looked around.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2333.96,"start":2328.17}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Like, we're the majority here.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2336.34,"start":2333.96}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"But --","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2336.84,"start":2336.34}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^MICHAEL COGDELL^","text":"All the elected officials were white.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2339.66,"start":2336.84}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^MICHAEL COGDELL^","text":"And they would run the court system, legal system, police system, the county system.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2345.45,"start":2339.66}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^MICHAEL COGDELL^","text":"And they was out -- it was two to one Blacks to every white.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2348.45,"start":2345.45}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^MICHAEL COGDELL^","text":"So what Ferguson has done now, they got a Black mayor, they got a Black chief of police, a Black attorney -- everything.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2355.32,"start":2348.45}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^MICHAEL COGDELL^","text":"They found out the power was in the vote.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2357.3,"start":2355.32}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^HORACE MUNN^","text":"They did the same thing we're doing right now.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2359.1,"start":2357.3}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^HORACE MUNN^","text":"Basically, educate people on the importance of their vote.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2361.71,"start":2359.1}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^MICHAEL COGDELL^","text":"It's important to go vote.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2363.585,"start":2361.71}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"These two are trying to pull what they see as a Ferguson in Elizabethtown.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2367.47,"start":2363.585}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Turn out Black voters, and flip the leadership from white to Black.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2372.48,"start":2367.47}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"This is the early voting period.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2374.16,"start":2372.48}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"And this whole campaign event is basically a place to eat and hang out while keeping track of turnout.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2379.98,"start":2374.16}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Horace and Cogdell's assumption is Black voters will vote for the Black candidates and white voters will vote for the white incumbents.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2387.36,"start":2379.98}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Increase the number of Black voters by even a bit over the last election, and the women can win.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2393.42,"start":2387.36}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"So all day, Horace and Cogdell are taking calls and doing math.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2397.56,"start":2393.42}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"How many votes for us and how many votes for them?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2399.922,"start":2397.56}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^MICHAEL COGDELL^","text":"Do you think you can give us a rough scenario?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2402.63,"start":2399.922}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Their friend Arthur, who's been over at the Board of Elections, comes back to the barbecue with the latest round of numbers, public information.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2410.88,"start":2402.63}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Reports on who's voted early already.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2412.492,"start":2410.88}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARTHUR^","text":"I got three more pages to go through.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2414.45,"start":2412.492}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Arthur sits and goes over the list of voters, trying to estimate how many Black people versus how many white people have voted so far.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2423.25,"start":2414.45}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Sort of crowdsourcing it, with people sitting around a table under a tent, chatting about who on the list is probably Black, who's probably white, based on who lives where.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2432.81,"start":2423.25}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARTHUR^","text":"What white people live at 800 Peanut Road?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2435.51,"start":2432.81}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^SPEAKER^","text":"You got the Johnsons on Peanut Road.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2437.91,"start":2435.51}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARTHUR^","text":"Peanut Road, not Peanut Plant Road, Peanut Road.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2440.675,"start":2437.91}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^SPEAKER^","text":"What's the difference?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2442.05,"start":2440.675}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARTHUR^","text":"Peanut Plant and Peanut's different.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2443.91,"start":2442.05}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^SPEAKER^","text":"What's the difference?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2445.23,"start":2443.91}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARTHUR^","text":"Peanut Road in town.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2446.48,"start":2445.23}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARTHUR^","text":"Peanut Plant Road in the county.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2448.07,"start":2446.48}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^SPEAKER^","text":"They're on the Peanut Plant Road.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2450.303,"start":2448.07}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARTHUR^","text":"They're on Plant Peanut Road.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2452.227,"start":2450.303}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^SPEAKER^","text":"Haven't seen you in a while.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2456.06,"start":2454.435}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^SPEAKER^","text":"How you been?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2456.602,"start":2456.06}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[CHATTER]","text":"","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2462.21,"start":2456.602}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"If this election was a test of their skills, election night did not look good.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2467.43,"start":2462.21}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Horace, Prentis, Arthur and the three women who are running for town council are sitting in the Board of Elections building watching a big computer screen at the front of the room.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2477.48,"start":2467.43}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"The numbers keep going in the wrong direction.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2480.39,"start":2477.48}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"The women lose by a lot.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2483.52,"start":2480.39}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Dwight Sheppard, Democratic poll watcher, guy who makes everything that's going on in elections in Bladen his business, he's in the back of the room watching the returns.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2493.61,"start":2483.52}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"So I ask him what he's seeing.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2495.88,"start":2493.61}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"He whispers.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2496.78,"start":2495.88}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"He doesn't want to be overheard.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2499.27,"start":2496.78}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^DWIGHT SHEPARD^","text":"I can tell you that some of the people they thought were going to vote for those three ladies didn't vote for them.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2506.56,"start":2499.27}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Some of the people they thought were going to vote for those three ladies didn't vote for them, he's saying.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2512.65,"start":2506.56}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"When I ask him why, he says I really should go talk to Miss Minnie, meaning Minnie Price, the former PAC treasurer who argued with Horace and Cogdell and then quit.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2520.533,"start":2512.65}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^DWIGHT SHEPPARD^","text":"Miss Minnie could answer that question better than I can.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2523.7,"start":2520.533}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ZOE CHACE^","text":"OK.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2524.38,"start":2523.7}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ZOE CHACE^","text":"I'll ask her.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2525.426,"start":2524.38}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^DWIGHT SHEPPARD^","text":"She'll help you.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2526.884,"start":2525.426}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ZOE CHACE^","text":"Uh huh.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2528.55,"start":2526.884}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Minnie is sitting in the very front row by herself, her own little island.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2533.95,"start":2528.55}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"She's taking notes on the results in a little notebook.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2536.62,"start":2533.95}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ZOE CHACE^","text":"So you have a theory about what happened here?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2538.555,"start":2536.62}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^MINNIE PRICE^","text":"Hm?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2538.9,"start":2538.555}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ZOE CHACE^","text":"Do you have a theory about what happened here?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2540.67,"start":2538.9}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^MINNIE PRICE^","text":"Do I have a theory?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2541.48,"start":2540.67}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ZOE CHACE^","text":"Yeah.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2542.233,"start":2541.48}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[LAUGHS]","text":"","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2543.04,"start":2542.233}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^MINNIE PRICE^","text":"No.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2543.832,"start":2543.04}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^MINNIE PRICE^","text":"I'm just glad it happened this way.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2546.19,"start":2543.832}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ZOE CHACE^","text":"Why?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2547.36,"start":2546.19}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^MINNIE PRICE^","text":"Because.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2549.77,"start":2547.36}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^MINNIE PRICE^","text":"People that was running was running for the wrong reasons.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2553.33,"start":2549.77}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^MINNIE PRICE^","text":"And take that off.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2554.32,"start":2553.33}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"She motions for me to stop recording.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2557.36,"start":2554.32}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Minnie has a few thoughts she doesn't want to say tonight, but she's told them to me on the record since.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2563.33,"start":2557.36}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"First, she thinks Cogdell's redevelopment vision is a pipe dream.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2567.53,"start":2563.33}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"There's never going to be a thriving Black downtown like there was when we grew up, she said to me.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2572.9,"start":2567.53}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"What we need to do is give Black children here the skills and education they need to leave this place.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2579.49,"start":2572.9}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"It makes her mad the way he talks, like he's selling the voters a bill of goods.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2584.64,"start":2579.49}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"But also, he just makes her really mad.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2587.4,"start":2584.64}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Her main critique of what happened here, though, she just didn't think the three women were qualified to run.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2593.82,"start":2587.4}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"They weren't involved in stuff, she says.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2596.04,"start":2593.82}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"They almost never went to town council meetings or anything.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2599.01,"start":2596.04}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Minnie goes to almost all of them.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2601.29,"start":2599.01}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"They had no clear agenda.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2602.76,"start":2601.29}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"They didn't campaign much.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2604.35,"start":2602.76}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Probably because they were new to it.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2606.46,"start":2604.35}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"But I would say, most importantly, she thought they were being used by Cogdell and Horace as just Black faces on the town council who they could control.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2618.46,"start":2606.46}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Minnie's take makes sense to me.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2620.89,"start":2618.46}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"I interviewed two of the women running.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2623.17,"start":2620.89}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"They were really nice and known in the community.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2626.09,"start":2623.17}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"One of them hosts a great gospel show on local radio.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2629.29,"start":2626.09}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"And they all definitely wanted change in Etown.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2632.32,"start":2629.29}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"But they seemed really green.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2634.66,"start":2632.32}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"And it really did seem to me like it was Cogdell's vision that was driving this whole thing forward, way more than the candidates'.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2642.25,"start":2634.66}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Some people in Etown felt like something off was going on, like Horace and Cogdell were interlopers, bigfooting into an election where they didn't belong.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2651.88,"start":2642.25}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Horace, for example, lives half an hour away from Etown.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2655.57,"start":2651.88}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Cogdell lives just outside the city limits.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2658.06,"start":2655.57}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Why were they so deep in the mix?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2660.696,"start":2658.06}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING (MICHAEL COGDELL)^","text":"-- of people that look like us that were minorities looking like you guys.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2665.53,"start":2660.696}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING (MICHAEL COGDELL)^","text":"You can do the --","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2666.238,"start":2665.53}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"I stopped by Cogdell's office a few blocks away.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2669.37,"start":2666.238}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"He and Horace and the candidates and some others are there.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2672.85,"start":2669.37}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Horace and Cogdell seemed legit taken aback.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2675.91,"start":2672.85}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Cogdell is seated on a stool in front of the group, addressing everybody like a professor and a lecturer.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2681.73,"start":2675.91}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"As he puts it to the room, we didn't lose because of white voters.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2685.81,"start":2681.73}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"It was people that look like us that took us out.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2688.212,"start":2685.81}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING (MICHAEL COGDELL)^","text":"And it wasn't them.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2690.67,"start":2688.212}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING (MICHAEL COGDELL)^","text":"It was us.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2692.212,"start":2690.67}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING (MICHAEL COGDELL)^","text":"Because I was standing there.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2693.42,"start":2692.212}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING (MICHAEL COGDELL)^","text":"It wasn't -- don't get mad with them.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2695.17,"start":2693.42}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING (MICHAEL COGDELL)^","text":"It was us.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2696.298,"start":2695.17}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[CHATTER]","text":"","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2699.286,"start":2696.298}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ZOE CHACE^","text":"Wait, Horace.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2709.61,"start":2708.527}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ZOE CHACE^","text":"Can I tape this?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2710.548,"start":2709.61}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^HORACE MUNN^","text":"You can tape it.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2711.84,"start":2710.548}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ZOE CHACE^","text":"OK.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2714.2,"start":2711.84}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"I called Horace the next day on my ride home from the airport to see how he explained this loss to himself.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2721.01,"start":2714.2}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"More Black voters did vote in the municipal election this time.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2724.64,"start":2721.01}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"But the Black candidates he'd backed still lost.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2728.15,"start":2724.64}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Horace had a few explanations for this.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2730.64,"start":2728.15}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Partly, he thought, this loss was a backlash over Dan McCready's loss.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2734.99,"start":2730.64}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Black voters who are mad at him and Cogdell for not helping a Democrat beat a Republican.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2740.21,"start":2734.99}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"They voted for the white candidates.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2742.55,"start":2740.21}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Horace also blames the results on class divisions among Black people.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2747.23,"start":2742.55}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"He says there are upper class Black people, sometimes he calls them the elites, who are fine working with the white political establishment in town, who gain from it, and who voted accordingly.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2758.18,"start":2747.23}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"And Horace suggested one other reason for what happened, a reason that quite frankly struck me as pretty wild.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2765.41,"start":2758.18}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"In light of all the accusations of vote buying that have been aimed at the PAC, he thinks some voters were getting free stuff from one of the white candidates.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2774.21,"start":2765.41}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Essentially, they were bought off.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2776.03,"start":2774.21}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^HORACE MUNN^","text":"-- to win.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2777.072,"start":2776.03}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^HORACE MUNN^","text":"And I don't know for sure, but I'm willing to bet you that some of them Black people getting free stuff that you can never imagine.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2783.882,"start":2777.072}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ZOE CHACE^","text":"You think?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2784.84,"start":2783.882}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^HORACE MUNN^","text":"Yeah.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2786.67,"start":2785.34}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^HORACE MUNN^","text":"Give me your vote.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2787.53,"start":2786.67}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^HORACE MUNN^","text":"Get what you want.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2789.01,"start":2787.53}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^HORACE MUNN^","text":"I can't prove it.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2790.38,"start":2789.01}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ZOE CHACE^","text":"OK.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2791.047,"start":2790.38}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"HORACE MUNN^","text":"But --","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2791.88,"start":2791.047}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Of course, Horace can't prove any such thing.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2794.47,"start":2791.88}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Just like in myriad elections before it, there's no proof anyone was buying votes in the municipal election.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2802.16,"start":2794.47}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"I also had a theory for why Black voters in Bladen may not have voted the way Horace expected them to vote.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2808.94,"start":2802.16}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"I broached it with him, gingerly.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2811.97,"start":2808.94}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ZOE CHACE^","text":"I just think, like, maybe the Black voters --","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2816.85,"start":2811.97}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ZOE CHACE^","text":"it's, like, you know, it's like we've talked about before.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2819.44,"start":2816.85}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ZOE CHACE^","text":"You know, everybody's not the same.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2820.98,"start":2819.44}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ZOE CHACE^","text":"They don't see it all the same way.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2822.892,"start":2820.98}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ZOE CHACE^","text":"You know, they don't just have to be bought off to see it different from you.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2826.1,"start":2822.892}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ZOE CHACE^","text":"They might just actually see it different.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2829.11,"start":2826.1}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^HORACE MUNN^","text":"Well, you don't have to be bought off to see it.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2832.14,"start":2829.11}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^HORACE MUNN^","text":"Some are bought off.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2833.88,"start":2832.14}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^HORACE MUNN^","text":"Others are reaping the benefit.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2836.83,"start":2833.88}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^HORACE MUNN^","text":"If you can reap the benefit of something for yourself and not care about the community, then same thing.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2845.423,"start":2836.83}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^HORACE MUNN^","text":"You've sold your soul.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2846.34,"start":2845.423}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"He doubled down.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2847.78,"start":2846.34}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"I did, too.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2848.53,"start":2847.78}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ZOE CHACE^","text":"But isn't it possible they could have just wanted something different from what you wanted?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2853.707,"start":2848.53}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^HORACE MUNN^","text":"I don't think so.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2855.04,"start":2853.707}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^HORACE MUNN^","text":"How can you -- how can you live in a community that's destitute, nothing's coming in, all your buildings and your community are dilapidated, no fund is coming to the community.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2867.96,"start":2855.04}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^HORACE MUNN^","text":"They're all spent in the white area, nothing in the Black area.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2870.73,"start":2867.96}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^HORACE MUNN^","text":"So how can it be?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2874.42,"start":2870.73}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^HORACE MUNN^","text":"What is it?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2875.87,"start":2874.42}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^HORACE MUNN^","text":"Do you think the Blacks just vote to say I want to be poor and live in a poor area without any development and I want to support the whites because they are right?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2884.3,"start":2875.87}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^HORACE MUNN^","text":"That's bullshit.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2886.01,"start":2884.3}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^HORACE MUNN^","text":"It's not true.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2886.64,"start":2886.01}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^HORACE MUNN^","text":"It's unfounded.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2888.09,"start":2886.64}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^HORACE MUNN^","text":"It's something else.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2889.17,"start":2888.09}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^HORACE MUNN^","text":"Think about it.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2895.99,"start":2893.69}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^HORACE MUNN^","text":"Open your mind up and look at the whole picture.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2897.99,"start":2895.99}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"It's always zero sum with Horace when it comes to politics.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2906.37,"start":2902.67}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"I've learned that.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2907.77,"start":2906.37}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"If you're not with him, you're against him.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2909.9,"start":2907.77}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"And if you're against him, you're wrong.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2912.63,"start":2909.9}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"But this is more than that.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2914.55,"start":2912.63}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"What Horace is trying to get me to see, the whole picture, as he says, it's his understanding of not just this one election, but everything that goes on in Bladen.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2924.57,"start":2914.55}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Whether it's white politicians benefiting from Black people divided by class, or white people trading goods for Black votes, there's a grand, unifying explanation for all of it.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2935.58,"start":2924.57}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"And Horace believes he's the one who sees it all, like Neo in The Matrix.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2941.43,"start":2935.58}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"But what if you don't see things the way Horace does?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2945.5,"start":2941.43}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"And you're just as determined as he is?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2947.87,"start":2945.5}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"And you're influential and have a lot of connections and think it's time for new leadership in Bladen?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2955.03,"start":2947.87}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Well, then you'd be Minnie Price.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2957.7,"start":2955.03}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING (MINNIE PRICE)^","text":"If it's going to help, I don't care if I triple split the Black vote.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2962.62,"start":2957.7}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING (MINNIE PRICE)^","text":"Why does he think that he could be the only Black running for something?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2968.873,"start":2962.62}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"That's next time.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2970.04,"start":2968.873}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"The Improvement Association is produced and edited by Nancy Updike and me.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2989.33,"start":2984.17}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Neil Drumming is our managing editor.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2991.31,"start":2989.33}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Julie Snyder is executive editor.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2993.53,"start":2991.31}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Additional editing by Sarah Koenig and Ira Glass.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2996.86,"start":2993.53}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"RL Nave is our editorial consultant.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2999.35,"start":2996.86}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Fact checking and research by Ben Phelan.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":3001.87,"start":2999.35}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Music supervision and mixing by Phoebe Wang.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":3004.84,"start":3001.87}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Amy Pedulla is our associate producer.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":3007.18,"start":3004.84}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Ndeye Thioubou is the supervising producer.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":3010.15,"start":3007.18}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Original music composed by Kwame Brandt-Pierce.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":3013.51,"start":3010.15}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Additional support from the staff at This American Life, including Emanuele Berry, Julie Whitaker, Cassie Howley, Seth Lind, and Frances Swanson.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":3021.82,"start":3013.51}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"At The New York Times, Sam Dolnick, Lauren Jackson, Elizabeth Davis-Moorer, Alena Cerro, and Nora Keller.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":3028.96,"start":3021.82}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Special thanks to Michael Aycock, Prentis Benston, Sydney Dunston, Matthew Fried, Amy Gardner, Larry Hays, David Jones, Josh Malcolm, Lorraine Minnite, Ilka McElveen, Courtney Patterson, Allison Riggs, Jeff Loperfido, Wayne Schaeffer and Cynthia Jones.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":3049,"start":3028.96}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"The Improvement Association is produced by Serial Productions and The New York Times.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":3055.14,"start":3049}}]},"credit":"","fileUrl":"https:\u002F\u002Fnyt.simplecastaudio.com\u002Fd7b66137-c66c-4a78-a832-79703f55da09\u002Fepisodes\u002F0d3f8645-748e-4c28-b927-c3f21443c433\u002Faudio\u002F128\u002Fdefault.mp3?awCollectionId=d7b66137-c66c-4a78-a832-79703f55da09&awEpisodeId=0d3f8645-748e-4c28-b927-c3f21443c433","firstPublished":"2021-04-22T09:55:05.000Z","headline":{"__typename":"CreativeWorkHeadline","default":"Listen to Chapter 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Nevertheless, Horace Munn, president of the PAC, joins with his closest allies to make a bold move by supporting a political upset at the center of the county."}],"textAlign":"LEFT"},{"__typename":"Dropzone","adsDesktop":false,"adsDesktopHoldout":true,"adsHybrid":false,"adsMobile":false,"adsMobileHoldout":false,"bad":true,"index":13},{"__typename":"ImageBlock","media":{"__typename":"Image","altText":"","caption":{"__typename":"TextOnlyDocumentBlock","content":[{"__typename":"ParagraphBlock","content":[{"__typename":"TextInline","formats":[],"text":"A forest road through Bladen Lakes State Forest."}]}],"text":"A forest road through Bladen Lakes State Forest."},"credit":"Jeremy M. Lange for The New York Times","crops":[{"__typename":"ImageCrop","renditions":[{"__typename":"ImageRendition","height":480,"name":"articleLarge","url":"https:\u002F\u002Fstatic01.nyt.com\u002Fimages\u002F2021\u002F04\u002F07\u002Fpodcasts\u002Ftia-scene-1\u002Ftia-scene-1-articleLarge.jpg","width":600},{"__typename":"ImageRendition","height":500,"name":"popup","url":"https:\u002F\u002Fstatic01.nyt.com\u002Fimages\u002F2021\u002F04\u002F07\u002Fpodcasts\u002Ftia-scene-1\u002Ftia-scene-1-popup.jpg","width":625},{"__typename":"ImageRendition","height":819,"name":"jumbo","url":"https:\u002F\u002Fstatic01.nyt.com\u002Fimages\u002F2021\u002F04\u002F07\u002Fpodcasts\u002Ftia-scene-1\u002Ftia-scene-1-jumbo.jpg","width":1024},{"__typename":"ImageRendition","height":1638,"name":"superJumbo","url":"https:\u002F\u002Fstatic01.nyt.com\u002Fimages\u002F2021\u002F04\u002F07\u002Fpodcasts\u002Ftia-scene-1\u002Ftia-scene-1-superJumbo.jpg","width":2048}]},{"__typename":"ImageCrop","renditions":[{"__typename":"ImageRendition","height":150,"name":"thumbLarge","url":"https:\u002F\u002Fstatic01.nyt.com\u002Fimages\u002F2021\u002F04\u002F07\u002Fpodcasts\u002Ftia-scene-1\u002Ftia-scene-1-thumbLarge.jpg","width":150}]},{"__typename":"ImageCrop","renditions":[{"__typename":"ImageRendition","height":152,"name":"articleInline","url":"https:\u002F\u002Fstatic01.nyt.com\u002Fimages\u002F2021\u002F04\u002F07\u002Fpodcasts\u002Ftia-scene-1\u002Ftia-scene-1-articleInline.jpg","width":190}]},{"__typename":"ImageCrop","renditions":[{"__typename":"ImageRendition","height":1440,"name":"mobileMasterAt3x","url":"https:\u002F\u002Fstatic01.nyt.com\u002Fimages\u002F2021\u002F04\u002F07\u002Fpodcasts\u002Ftia-scene-1\u002Ftia-scene-1-mobileMasterAt3x.jpg","width":1800}]}],"id":"SW1hZ2U6bnl0Oi8vaW1hZ2UvMDlmZmNhODktOTJmOS01NzA5LTljNmItMjdiM2ZkZTM3NGZh","imageType":"photo","legacyHtmlCaption":"A forest road through Bladen Lakes State Forest.","timesTags":[],"uri":"nyt:\u002F\u002Fimage\u002F09ffca89-92f9-5709-9c6b-27b3fde374fa","url":"\u002Fimagepages\u002F2021\u002F04\u002F07\u002Fpodcasts\u002Ftia-scene-1.html"},"size":"MEDIUM"},{"__typename":"Dropzone","adsDesktop":false,"adsDesktopHoldout":false,"adsHybrid":false,"adsMobile":false,"adsMobileHoldout":true,"bad":true,"index":14},{"__typename":"Heading2Block","content":[{"__typename":"TextInline","formats":[],"text":"Chapter Five: ‘Democrat, Republican, White, Black, Green’"}],"textAlign":"LEFT"},{"__typename":"AudioBlock","media":{"__typename":"Audio","audioTranscript":{"__typename":"AudioTranscript","transcriptFragment":[{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING^","text":"From Serial Productions and The New York Times, this is The Improvement Association.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":6.79,"start":0}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Chapter 5, Democrat, Republican, White, Black, Green.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":12.46,"start":6.79}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[MUSIC]","text":"","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":16.12,"start":12.46}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[MUSIC]","text":"It's the Democratic primary.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":20.29,"start":18.55}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[MUSIC]","text":"February 2020.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":22.18,"start":20.29}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[MUSIC]","text":"Bladen County, North Carolina.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":25.42,"start":22.18}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[MUSIC]","text":"There's a flurry of candidate signs stuck in the ground, mostly Bloomberg and Buttigieg, which is odd.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":31.67,"start":25.42}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[MUSIC]","text":"They're not popular here.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":33.43,"start":31.67}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[MUSIC]","text":"But no one cares about the presidential primary much.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":37.66,"start":33.43}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[MUSIC]","text":"The race that matters is the county commissioner's race.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":41.74,"start":37.66}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[MUSIC]","text":"The Bladen County Board of Commissioners is the top governing body in Bladen.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":46.12,"start":41.74}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[MUSIC]","text":"Cogdell has been commissioner for eight years.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":48.47,"start":46.12}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[MUSIC]","text":"He's running for re-election.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":50.23,"start":48.47}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[MUSIC]","text":"And he's being challenged for his seat.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":52.9,"start":50.23}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[MUSIC]","text":"In fact, he's facing the exact scenario that he and Horace were always warning about.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":58.06,"start":52.9}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[MUSIC]","text":"The main candidate challenging Cogdell is Black.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":61.12,"start":58.06}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[MUSIC]","text":"And there's another challenger in the primary, who is white.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":64.51,"start":61.12}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[MUSIC]","text":"Having two Black candidates run for the same seat here means they're in danger of splitting the Black vote between them and letting the white guy run up the middle.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":74.94,"start":64.51}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[MUSIC]","text":"The Black guy running against Cogdell has been launched at him like a grenade by none other than Minnie Price, former treasurer of the PAC, who recently quit in frustration about how Horace and Cogdell were behaving as leaders of the group.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":90.12,"start":74.94}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[MUSIC]","text":"It's Minnie's nephew running against Cogdell.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":93.03,"start":90.12}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[MUSIC]","text":"His name is Mark Gillespie.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":95.75,"start":93.03}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[MUSIC]","text":"I found out pretty quickly, this election is high drama and high stakes.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":100.22,"start":95.75}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[MUSIC]","text":"Because a win for Mark Gillespie and a loss for Cogdell would be a very public blow and a signal that the PAC's power is in decline.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":108.155,"start":100.22}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[MUSIC]","text":"It's early, but the tents are up.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":113.14,"start":111.17}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[MUSIC]","text":"The campaign workers are out.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":115.18,"start":113.14}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[MUSIC]","text":"When I get to the polling place, I run right up to Charles.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":118.28,"start":115.18}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[MUSIC]","text":"He goes by Tojo.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":119.54,"start":118.28}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^SPEAKER^","text":"Here we go again.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":120.967,"start":119.54}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"I recognize him from the last election.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":123.05,"start":120.967}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"He's usually wearing a tracksuit and always works elections every single day of early voting.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":128.337,"start":123.05}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ZOE CHACE^","text":"You got a big turnout.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":129.795,"start":128.337}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^TOJO^","text":"Oh, trust me, you ain't seen nothing yet.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":132.56,"start":129.795}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Last year, Tojo worked the Elizabethtown municipal election hard on the Horace and Cogdell side.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":139.28,"start":132.56}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"I remember him saying how he was really trying to get the vote out for these three ladies.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":145.22,"start":139.28}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"This election, the first thing Tojo did when I saw him was press a Mark Gillespie card into my hand and tell me he was done with Bladen Improvement, done with Cogdell.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":154.61,"start":145.22}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^TOJO^","text":"Because if you ain't doing nothing, we don't need you.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":157.94,"start":154.61}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^TOJO^","text":"You'll see how bad he get beat.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":160.31,"start":157.94}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"He meaning Cogdell.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":162.32,"start":160.31}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"A lot of people don't like him, you'd be surprised, Tojo told me.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":166.22,"start":162.32}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"While Cogdell, quote, \"doesn't do anything for the kids,\" Mark's really involved, Tojo said.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":172.28,"start":166.22}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"He runs the Dixie Youth Baseball League, leads the Scout troop he was in when he was a kid.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":178.43,"start":172.28}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Today's Sunday.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":179.45,"start":178.43}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"It's also the polls day.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":180.98,"start":179.45}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"A lot of people are showing up to vote in fancy dresses, church outfits.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":185.18,"start":180.98}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Tojo gives a card to every one of them.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":187.4,"start":185.18}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^TOJO^","text":"Young ladies like Mark.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":189.028,"start":187.4}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ZOE CHACE^","text":"Who are those ladies?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":190.445,"start":189.028}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ZOE CHACE^","text":"Do you know them?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":190.88,"start":190.445}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^TOJO^","text":"I don't know them.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":191.52,"start":190.88}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^TOJO^","text":"I don't know them.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":192.43,"start":191.52}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^TOJO^","text":"Them white ladies been knowing Mark for years.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":194.8,"start":192.43}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ZOE CHACE^","text":"Those two or just in general?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":196.55,"start":194.8}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^TOJO^","text":"No, a lot of them have been knowing him for years.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":199.25,"start":196.55}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ZOE CHACE^","text":"The white ladies.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":200.5,"start":199.25}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^TOJO^","text":"Yes, and a lot of them will tell you, he's a good kid.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":203.39,"start":200.5}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^TOJO^","text":"They've always said that about him.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":205.34,"start":203.39}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^TOJO^","text":"And they've been wanting him to do that.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":208.428,"start":205.34}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ZOE CHACE^","text":"To run for office.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":209.72,"start":208.428}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^TOJO^","text":"Yes.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":211.61,"start":209.72}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"White people like Mark, I file away in my head.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":214.425,"start":211.61}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^MARK GILLESPIE^","text":"Barbara, don't stay away so long.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":216.55,"start":214.425}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Mark Gillespie's here, calling out to people, joking around.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":220.64,"start":216.55}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^MARK GILLESPIE^","text":"[LAUGHS] I know!","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":224,"start":220.64}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Mark's 52, but looks younger, quick with a wide smile and a wave.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":229.13,"start":224}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"His tent definitely has the most going on, the most signs, a table with swag on it.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":234.71,"start":229.13}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"There are rows of red potato chip bags out that say, \"Vote Mark Gillespie, Bladen County Commissioner County Wide,\" with Mark's face on them.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":243.66,"start":234.71}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"They're cool.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":244.673,"start":243.66}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^MARK GILLESPIE^","text":"I had a friend of mine, who just made them up.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":247.34,"start":244.673}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^MARK GILLESPIE^","text":"And she done it for her mom's birthday, and I seen them and I like them.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":250.765,"start":247.34}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^MARK GILLESPIE^","text":"So she done them for me for that.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":252.14,"start":250.765}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ZOE CHACE^","text":"Oh, I see.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":253.098,"start":252.14}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ZOE CHACE^","text":"So you saw it at a birthday party.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":254.75,"start":253.098}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^MARK GILLESPIE^","text":"Yeah.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":255.32,"start":254.75}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ZOE CHACE^","text":"I have never seen --","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":256.61,"start":255.32}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^MARK GILLESPIE^","text":"I never have either.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":257.06,"start":256.61}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ZOE CHACE^","text":"-- a personalized potato chip bag.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":259.1,"start":257.06}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^MARK GILLESPIE^","text":"That's pretty cool.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":260.12,"start":259.1}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ZOE CHACE^","text":"It's very professional looking.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":261.86,"start":260.12}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^MARK GILLESPIE^","text":"That's what I said.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":262.67,"start":261.86}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^MARK GILLESPIE^","text":"I was amazed.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":263.66,"start":262.67}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^MARK GILLESPIE^","text":"And they're a hit so far.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":264.71,"start":263.66}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^MARK GILLESPIE^","text":"I mean, I'm just letting them try them out and they like it.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":266.48,"start":264.71}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^MARK GILLESPIE^","text":"One lady says she's going to take it home for a souvenir.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":268.855,"start":266.48}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Mark seems sweet, really leading with nice.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":274.67,"start":271.421}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"That's his brand I'm getting, gets along with everybody type guy.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":278.66,"start":274.67}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"I'm just watching him talk to people.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":281,"start":278.66}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Then Mark whispers to me apropos of nothing I noticed, you need to make light of that kind of stuff.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":285.605,"start":281}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^MARK GILLESPIE^","text":"You need to make light of that kind of stuff.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":288.23,"start":285.605}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ZOE CHACE^","text":"What?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":289.01,"start":288.23}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^MARK GILLESPIE^","text":"This whole process.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":290.552,"start":289.01}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^MARK GILLESPIE^","text":"[LAUGHS] And believe me, I want to win.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":294.29,"start":290.552}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^MARK GILLESPIE^","text":"I want to win, but it's crazy.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":295.88,"start":294.29}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^MARK GILLESPIE^","text":"The process is crazy.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":297.18,"start":295.88}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ZOE CHACE^","text":"What do you mean?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":298.43,"start":297.18}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^MARK GILLESPIE^","text":"Just the stuff that you have to go through, the antics that are pulled.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":303.86,"start":298.43}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"The stuff you have to go through, the antics that are pulled.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":307.77,"start":303.86}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"I don't know what he's talking about at this moment.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":310.59,"start":307.77}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Sure, there are three county commissioner competitors right on top of each other here.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":314.7,"start":310.59}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"But it actually feels less awkward than I would have thought.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":318.5,"start":314.7}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Mark's tense, though.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":319.64,"start":318.5}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Now I see it.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":320.96,"start":319.64}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"He does not love conflict.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":323.87,"start":320.96}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"You know who does kind of love it, though?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":326.31,"start":323.87}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"His aunt Minnie, who put him up to this.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":329.45,"start":326.31}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"She's been telling everyone around her, Cogdell has got to go.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":333.137,"start":329.45}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^MINNIE PRICE^","text":"This is the first time he ever had opposition.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":335.72,"start":333.137}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ZOE CHACE^","text":"I know.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":336.553,"start":335.72}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^MINNIE PRICE^","text":"First time.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":337.7,"start":336.553}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^MINNIE PRICE^","text":"And he's been getting by scot-free.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":340.91,"start":337.7}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^MINNIE PRICE^","text":"And he's telling people Minnie pushed Mark up to run.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":345.59,"start":340.91}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^MINNIE PRICE^","text":"She's going to make me spend some money.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":347.865,"start":345.59}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^MINNIE PRICE^","text":"Mm-hmm, I'm going to make you spend some money.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":349.85,"start":347.865}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^MINNIE PRICE^","text":"And I'm going to work hard to make sure that you don't get back in that seat.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":355.13,"start":349.85}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Minnie and Mark are making a bold calculation, given Bladen's history.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":359.78,"start":355.13}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"They're betting that Mark can get a combination of Black and white votes.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":363.92,"start":359.78}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"And it will be enough to push Cogdell out.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":367.16,"start":363.92}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^MINNIE PRICE^","text":"Mark has a lot of support from white people, I'll tell you that.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":370.55,"start":367.16}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^MINNIE PRICE^","text":"That is true.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":371.36,"start":370.55}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^MINNIE PRICE^","text":"He has a lot of support from white people.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":374.06,"start":371.36}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^MINNIE PRICE^","text":"He has a lot of support from Black people.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":377.06,"start":374.06}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^MINNIE PRICE^","text":"Because white folks and Black folks do not like Cogdell.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":382.4,"start":377.06}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^MINNIE PRICE^","text":"And they want Cogdell out of that position.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":386.62,"start":382.4}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^COGDELL^","text":"I want to beat Mark ass bad enough people would look and say, if you give him a vote, you're just wasting the vote.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":392.71,"start":386.62}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"I talked to Cogdell days later, sitting outside the polling place in his truck because it's cold.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":398.11,"start":392.71}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"He's glowering out at Mark's tent, talking about him like he's some pointless third party candidate.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":403.855,"start":398.11}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^COGDELL^","text":"That's the message that I'm hoping I can send.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":406.23,"start":403.855}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ZOE CHACE^","text":"You want to beat him, like, by a lot.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":408.49,"start":406.23}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^COGDELL^","text":"Yeah, so they'll look and say, it's just a waste of damn time.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":412.75,"start":408.49}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^COGDELL^","text":"Cogdell speaking.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":414.74,"start":412.75}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"At different times, both Horace and Cogdell tell me that Mark's gamble is a losing one.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":420.35,"start":414.74}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"White people almost never vote for Black candidates down here.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":424.5,"start":420.35}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"That's what they say, but Cogdell is clearly anxious about beating Mark.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":430.286,"start":424.5}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Because if Mark and Minnie's approach works and Mark gets elected with a coalition of white and Black voters, that means it's possible to attain Black political power in Bladen without the help of the PAC.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":443.24,"start":430.286}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"That's basically the definition of an existential threat.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":447.168,"start":443.24}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[MUSIC]","text":"","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":451.12,"start":447.168}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[MUSIC]","text":"From Serial Productions, I'm Zoe Chace.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":453.94,"start":451.12}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[MUSIC]","text":"This is The Improvement Association, a true story about election fraud.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":458.7,"start":453.94}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[MUSIC]","text":"Cogdell is an incumbent who doesn't want to lose his seat, obviously.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":479.34,"start":474.81}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[MUSIC]","text":"So just on that score, he's anti-Mark.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":483.27,"start":479.34}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[MUSIC]","text":"But it's not just that.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":484.92,"start":483.27}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[MUSIC]","text":"He and Horace see something more sinister happening here.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":488.58,"start":484.92}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[MUSIC]","text":"The first thing Horace and Cogdell told me when they heard Mark was running was, Mark is basically a front for white people in Bladen who want to get rid of Cogdell.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":499.77,"start":488.58}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[MUSIC]","text":"They're also certain that Mark, if elected, will go along with the white county commissioners and set things back for Black people in Bladen County.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":509.37,"start":499.77}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[MUSIC]","text":"They talk unequivocally about how a Mark victory would be a threat to their community.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":514.39,"start":509.37}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[MUSIC]","text":"And I was like, really?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":515.85,"start":514.39}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[MUSIC]","text":"How are you so sure?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":518.37,"start":515.85}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[MUSIC]","text":"Well, for one thing, Cogdell tells me, he's looked up Mark's campaign finance report.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":523.14,"start":518.37}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[MUSIC]","text":"And it's full of white funders, including the Clerks, the Greens, and the Campbells, three out of the four white families that, according to Cogdell, run downtown Elizabethtown.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":534.21,"start":523.14}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[MUSIC]","text":"Cogdell sees powerful white people in Bladen financially supporting his Black rival.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":540.48,"start":534.21}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[MUSIC]","text":"And he can't help but wonder.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":542.91,"start":540.48}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^COGDELL^","text":"You try not to read stuff into stuff, but you can't help but do it.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":548.52,"start":542.91}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^COGDELL^","text":"We struggled to get minority representation.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":553.65,"start":548.52}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^COGDELL^","text":"And then you see a white individual inject themselves into it.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":557.91,"start":553.65}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^COGDELL^","text":"You have to ask yourself, why would they do that?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":560.103,"start":557.91}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ZOE CHACE^","text":"Like the white people backing Mark Gillespie.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":562.52,"start":560.103}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^COGDELL^","text":"Yeah, you see them start doing stuff like that.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":563.85,"start":562.52}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^COGDELL^","text":"Why would you do that?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":565.11,"start":563.85}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"These white donors, Cogdell is saying, are only backing Mark Gillespie so they can control him.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":571.32,"start":565.11}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"He and Horace don't believe it's even up to Mark what kind of commissioner he would be.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":576.03,"start":571.32}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"His decisions would never be his own.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":578.58,"start":576.03}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"At the risk of sounding like a Tom Clancy novel, they believe Mark Gillespie to be compromised.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":585.15,"start":578.58}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"To Cogdell, this is clear from the way he says white people in Bladen talk about Mark.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":589.995,"start":585.15}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^COGDELL^","text":"He's a good boy.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":591.12,"start":589.995}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^COGDELL^","text":"Mark's a good guy.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":592.11,"start":591.12}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^COGDELL^","text":"No, he's a real good guy.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":593.452,"start":592.11}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^COGDELL^","text":"They won't say that about me.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":594.66,"start":593.452}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^COGDELL^","text":"I wonder why.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":596.45,"start":594.66}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^COGDELL^","text":"They want someone that they can control.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":599.12,"start":596.45}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"It's deeper than just campaign money, though.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":601.76,"start":599.12}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"What makes Mark the perfect choice of these white funders to run against Cogdell, in Cogdell's opinion, is Mark's job.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":609.5,"start":601.76}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Mark runs a liquor store in town, which I was like, OK, and?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":615.02,"start":609.5}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^COGDELL^","text":"That is not his store.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":616.88,"start":615.02}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^COGDELL^","text":"That store is owned by the town of Elizabethtown.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":620.846,"start":616.88}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^COGDELL^","text":"Mark manages the store.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":622.49,"start":620.846}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ZOE CHACE^","text":"And what's the problem with him managing a store that the city owns?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":628.4,"start":622.49}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^COGDELL^","text":"The people who got angry with me for trying to shake up the system was the town board who better to send at me than somebody that they pay every day.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":640.19,"start":628.4}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Cogdell says people are still mad at him and Horace for trying to shake up the Elizabethtown Council last year, when they backed those three women.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":648.05,"start":640.19}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Cogdell believes people close to the town council then pushed Mark to run against him.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":653.96,"start":648.05}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"And Cogdell's theory is, if Mark is elected, he'll have to vote the way the town wants him to because they own the store where he works.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":661.97,"start":653.96}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^COGDELL^","text":"He has no other choice, Zoe.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":665.47,"start":661.97}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^COGDELL^","text":"What choice does he have?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":666.61,"start":665.47}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^COGDELL^","text":"His livelihood.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":668.35,"start":666.61}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^COGDELL^","text":"He runs the liquor store, and that's his job.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":671.89,"start":668.35}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^COGDELL^","text":"If he doesn't do what the town board and them tell him to do, where is he going to go?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":677.56,"start":671.89}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^COGDELL^","text":"He could be out of a job.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":679.69,"start":677.56}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Now, calling your opponent a shill for corporate interests, that is not new in campaigns.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":686.17,"start":679.69}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"This is different, though.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":687.7,"start":686.17}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"For Cogdell and Horace, it's less of a tactic than a world view.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":692.31,"start":687.7}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Cogdell and Horace believe that in order for a Black-elected official to actually represent Black interests at the top of the county, he or she must be financially independent from whites.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":704.47,"start":692.31}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"There's no other way.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":706.24,"start":704.47}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"It doesn't mean you can never be paid by a white person.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":709.36,"start":706.24}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Both Cogdell and Horace have done work for and with white people over the years.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":715.55,"start":709.36}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"The point is, never depend on them.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":717.91,"start":715.55}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Don't need them.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":720.28,"start":717.91}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Financial independence means political independence.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":723.76,"start":720.28}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"To Cogdell, that equation hardly bears articulating -- so self-evident.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":728.68,"start":723.76}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"I have always known this, he says.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":732.37,"start":728.68}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Cogdell says even when his father worked at the mill for someone else, he had his own side business fixing cars.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":739.12,"start":732.37}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"His mother had a salon business.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":741.25,"start":739.12}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Horace was on the same page.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":743.53,"start":741.25}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"He likes to talk about his dad owning his farm --","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":746.08,"start":743.53}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"tobacco, corn, soybeans --","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":748.64,"start":746.08}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"and a hardware store, and a restaurant.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":751.63,"start":748.64}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Cogdell says his grandfather owned his own business.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":754.78,"start":751.63}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"And he was the model for all the kids and the grandkids.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":757.82,"start":754.78}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^COGDELL^","text":"He always worked and provided everything he had came from him.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":761.85,"start":757.82}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^COGDELL^","text":"He'd tell you, I didn't have to go ask white folks for nothing.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":764.95,"start":761.85}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^COGDELL^","text":"I had everything I wanted.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":766.33,"start":764.95}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^COGDELL^","text":"They'd come buy stuff from me.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":768.01,"start":766.33}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^COGDELL^","text":"And he just told his family, that was the way to be.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":770.91,"start":768.01}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^COGDELL^","text":"Have your own.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":771.91,"start":770.91}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Same with politics.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":773.56,"start":771.91}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Cogdell says his uncle told him, look, in politics, if someone says they want to give you money, tell them to give it to an organization with a purpose, supporting Black issues and Black people.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":785.95,"start":773.56}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Don't let anyone give you money personally.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":788.83,"start":785.95}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Because if you do, that person will think they own you.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":791.92,"start":788.83}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^COGDELL^","text":"And my dad had taught me this, Zoe.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":795.13,"start":791.92}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^COGDELL^","text":"Boy, they brought your great, great granddaddy, and they put a price tag on him and stood out and paraded him out in front of people just like a piece of meat, just like a hog or a dog.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":805.04,"start":795.13}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^COGDELL^","text":"If you sit there and let them do that to you, you ain't no better than what the white man did to your great, great granddaddy.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":810.94,"start":805.04}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^COGDELL^","text":"You have just put the price on your back.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":812.74,"start":810.94}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^COGDELL^","text":"He said the sad thing is, they didn't have a say about it.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":815.215,"start":812.74}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^COGDELL^","text":"You got a say about it.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":816.52,"start":815.215}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^COGDELL^","text":"You can say yes or no.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":819.04,"start":816.52}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^COGDELL^","text":"You don't have to.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":820,"start":819.04}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^COGDELL^","text":"You can say yes or no.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":823.09,"start":820}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"The power to say yes or no, that's the heart of it for Cogdell as county commissioner and for the PAC, especially the no part.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":832.96,"start":823.09}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Saying no is one of the PAC's most important tools on the county commission.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":837.85,"start":832.96}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"And it's what Cogdell and Horace worry that Mark would undermine if he's elected.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":843.17,"start":837.85}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Take, for example, the sales tax.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":846.14,"start":843.17}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"The sales tax is probably the best illustration of the power of the PAC's no.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":852.05,"start":846.14}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Bladen is a poor county.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":854.03,"start":852.05}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"For years, they've been trying to raise some revenue with a quarter cent sales tax increase.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":858.71,"start":854.03}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"And for years, the PAC has opposed it, put no on their sample ballot, and successfully shot it down.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":865.49,"start":858.71}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"The sales tax has been a frequent topic of frustration at county commission meetings, like this one time.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":873.4,"start":865.49}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"This is from a few years ago when the sales tax was being put on the ballot for the fourth time.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":879.54,"start":873.4}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"A local woman, Charlotte Smith, came up to the mic during the public comment section.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":885.63,"start":879.54}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Charlotte is proprietor of one of the only two media outlets in Bladen County, Bladen Online, and a property owner in the county.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":893.137,"start":885.63}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING (CHARLOTTE SMITH)^","text":"We've tried to pass the sales tax.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":896.22,"start":893.137}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING (CHARLOTTE SMITH)^","text":"This will be the fourth time.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":897.93,"start":896.22}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING (CHARLOTTE SMITH)^","text":"And our schools need help desperately.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":902.19,"start":897.93}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING (CHARLOTTE SMITH)^","text":"Our EMS needs help desperately.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":905.82,"start":902.19}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING (CHARLOTTE SMITH)^","text":"And I don't think that it's fair for the property owners to have to foot the bill all the time.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":912.81,"start":905.82}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING (CHARLOTTE SMITH)^","text":"And this is the fourth time that the PAC has put it on our ballot to vote against the sales tax.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":921.64,"start":912.81}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING (CHARLOTTE SMITH)^","text":"So my question is, why don't you support the sales tax?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":926.09,"start":921.64}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING (CHARLOTTE SMITH)^","text":"The members of the PAC.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":927.05,"start":926.09}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING (DELILAH BLANKS)^","text":"You want my response?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":932.26,"start":929.76}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING (CHARLOTTE SMITH)^","text":"Yes, ma'am.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":933.62,"start":932.26}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING (CHARLOTTE SMITH)^","text":"Sure.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":934.6,"start":933.62}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"This is Delilah Blanks, one of the founding members of the PAC.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":938.53,"start":934.6}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"She was a county commissioner then.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":940.75,"start":938.53}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"She speaks slowly, gravely, like a judge.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":944.74,"start":940.75}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING (DELILAH BLANKS)^","text":"I supported putting it on the ballot because every citizen in Bladen County should have a right to vote their conscience.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":957.6,"start":944.74}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING (DELILAH BLANKS)^","text":"But until this board decides how that money is going to be spent, I'm against it one time.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":974.3,"start":957.6}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING (DELILAH BLANKS)^","text":"I was against it the second time.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":977.12,"start":974.3}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING (DELILAH BLANKS)^","text":"I was against it the third time.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":981.4,"start":977.12}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING (DELILAH BLANKS)^","text":"I'll be against it the next time.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":985.36,"start":981.4}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING (DELILAH BLANKS)^","text":"I'm a member of the PAC and proud of it.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":989.26,"start":985.36}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING (DELILAH BLANKS)^","text":"I voted against it.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":991.63,"start":989.26}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING (DELILAH BLANKS)^","text":"I'm proud of it.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":993.475,"start":991.63}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING (DELILAH BLANKS)^","text":"And I'm encouraging everybody that I can encourage to keep on voting against it until we can commit ourselves as to how it's going to be spent.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1008.86,"start":993.475}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"What the PAC had been pushing for, for years was a public written commitment by the county commission that the sales tax money, when it came in, would be put towards specific listed goals and would be distributed in an equitable way across the county.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1028.43,"start":1012.17}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"In the past, the county has said they'd dedicate funds to majority Black areas, only to later renege.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1035.06,"start":1028.43}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"So the PAC thinks it has good reason to dig in.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1039.17,"start":1035.06}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"But to Charlotte Smith and probably a lot of people at the meeting that day, it seemed like the PAC was just being stubborn.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1046.04,"start":1039.17}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"The county is hurting.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1047.329,"start":1046.04}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"It really needs money.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1049.07,"start":1047.329}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING (CHARLOTTE SMITH)^","text":"My concern is that it seems that this PAC has a lot of power.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1053.96,"start":1049.07}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING (CHARLOTTE SMITH)^","text":"And --","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1054.47,"start":1053.96}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING (DELILAH BLANKS)^","text":"It does.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1055.07,"start":1054.47}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING (CHARLOTTE SMITH)^","text":"I know it does.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1055.99,"start":1055.07}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING (DELILAH BLANKS)^","text":"It does.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1056.486,"start":1055.99}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING (DELILAH BLANKS)^","text":"It makes sense to have it.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1057.48,"start":1056.486}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING (CHARLOTTE SMITH)^","text":"I know.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1058.62,"start":1057.48}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING (CHARLOTTE SMITH)^","text":"So in my --","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1059.12,"start":1058.62}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING (DELILAH BLANKS)^","text":"And we need to work together cooperatively to do it.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1063.62,"start":1059.12}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING (CHARLOTTE SMITH)^","text":"I would just like to say that I feel like this PAC has a lot of power.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1068.21,"start":1063.62}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING (CHARLOTTE SMITH)^","text":"And I would like to see the sales tax passed so that we can make improvements that Bladen County needs.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1074.15,"start":1068.21}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING (DELILAH BLANKS)^","text":"I agree.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1074.45,"start":1074.15}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING (CHARLOTTE SMITH)^","text":"I don't understand why this PAC can work together, but our Board of Commissioners cannot.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1079.825,"start":1074.45}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"In Bladen County, almost every dollar that passes through the county commission is contested.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1088.18,"start":1082.42}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"And the money fights often break down along racial lines.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1091.9,"start":1088.18}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"The trust level is zero, Cogdell says.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1095.65,"start":1091.9}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"The majority, at least five out of the nine commissioners is white and lately, Republican.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1101.59,"start":1095.65}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"For the last several years, there have been three Black commissioners, all PAC members, so three out of nine.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1108.13,"start":1101.59}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"They do what they can with the numbers they have.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1110.83,"start":1108.13}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"I saw this clearly when I looked through years of minutes from county commissioner meetings, like the PAC members on the commission constantly asking, where is this or that money going?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1121.36,"start":1110.83}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Is any of it going to the Black parts of the county?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1123.94,"start":1121.36}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"How much?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1125.02,"start":1123.94}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"What's being allocated for the fill-in-the-blank -- parks, school building repairs, EMS --","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1132.01,"start":1125.02}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"in majority Black areas?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1134.17,"start":1132.01}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"And that way, if they stand together, they can at least get things into the public record.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1139.1,"start":1134.17}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Sometimes they can force a compromise or marshal the people they represent, the voting bloc, to take action, like with the sales tax.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1149.09,"start":1139.1}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Mark Gillespie, Cogdell's rival in this county commission election, says he'll support the sales tax, no written commitment, like the PAC's been holding out for, no strings attached at all.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1161.05,"start":1149.09}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"He won't stand with the PAC on this.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1163.24,"start":1161.05}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"What's worse, from Horace's perspective, he worries that Mark will provide the white majority on the commission with a sort of shield.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1171.01,"start":1163.24}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Any time he votes with them, they'll have a Black person on their side in case someone tries to call them out for voting against Black interests.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1178.9,"start":1171.01}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Horace says he sees this a lot in Bladen County.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1181.78,"start":1178.9}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^HORACE^","text":"Anytime there's a controversial issue going on where, see, I, as a Black man, said, this is blatant racism, how can it be when you've got a Black man sitting at the president of the board?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1198.93,"start":1181.78}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ZOE CHACE^","text":"People like white people use him.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1201.06,"start":1198.93}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^HORACE^","text":"Correct.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1201.81,"start":1201.06}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ZOE CHACE^","text":"Throw him in front to be like, how you can say it's racist because there's a Black guy.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1205.38,"start":1201.81}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^HORACE^","text":"Because we have a Black man that's president of this board.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1207.45,"start":1205.38}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^HORACE^","text":"How can it be racism?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1208.325,"start":1207.45}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^HORACE^","text":"In Bladen County, when you find Black men that are well-liked by white people, those white people have that Black men in their pocket.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1222.012,"start":1212.2}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ZOE CHACE^","text":"That's the only explanation.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1223.72,"start":1222.012}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^HORACE^","text":"That's the only explanation.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1225.61,"start":1223.72}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"When it comes to Mark and some others in Bladen, Horace says they were born that way --","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1231.7,"start":1225.61}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"on the wrong side.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1233.44,"start":1231.7}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"It's like math for him --","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1234.85,"start":1233.44}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"incontrovertible.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1236.95,"start":1234.85}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Also, it gets really personal.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1239.86,"start":1236.95}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^HORACE^","text":"You have some guys in a little town, some men in a little town.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1244.36,"start":1239.86}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^HORACE^","text":"I mean, their parents cleaned houses for the rich people.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1248.54,"start":1244.36}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^HORACE^","text":"And they befriended --","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1250.928,"start":1248.54}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^HORACE^","text":"they were friends with their children.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1256.8,"start":1254.07}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^HORACE^","text":"They grew up together.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1258.12,"start":1256.8}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"I was kind of shocked by this, that Mark's mom's job could be another piece of evidence that Mark was compromised.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1265.39,"start":1258.12}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Horace assures me he's not looking down at what Mark's mom did for work.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1270.6,"start":1265.39}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Horace says he's just saying, this tells you something about Mark as a politician.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1276.45,"start":1270.6}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Mark's always been tight with white people.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1278.88,"start":1276.45}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"I've asked Horace about this a few times.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1280.683,"start":1278.88}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ZOE CHACE^","text":"What should I conclude from that?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1282.6,"start":1280.683}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ZOE CHACE^","text":"What does that mean about Mark that his mom was a maid for the white people?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1285.767,"start":1282.6}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^HORACE^","text":"I'm saying that that's and white people.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1288.78,"start":1285.767}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^HORACE^","text":"They grew up together to --","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1290.13,"start":1288.78}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^HORACE^","text":"if his mama was the maid, he got to be around white people, and they befriended each other.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1294.69,"start":1290.13}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^HORACE^","text":"So Mark is one of them, in a sense.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1296.76,"start":1294.69}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^HORACE^","text":"He's not a Black person like me.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1299.976,"start":1296.76}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[MUSIC]","text":"","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1303.42,"start":1299.976}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^MARK GILLESPIE^","text":"They say that I'm the white man's boy or the white man's, you know, whatever.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1312.33,"start":1304.41}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Mark just isn't surprised by any of these attacks.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1316.26,"start":1312.33}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"He's lived here his whole life.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1317.83,"start":1316.26}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"He's had this job at the liquor store for 20 years.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1320.61,"start":1317.83}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"He's heard this stuff.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1322.2,"start":1320.61}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"And he says it's politics.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1324.26,"start":1322.2}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^MARK GILLESPIE^","text":"You mentioned to me before that they said that because I work for the town of Elizabethtown, that I worked for the ABC store that I can be controlled, that crowd, the Bladen Improvement crowd, anybody who's not part of that organization that runs for an office,","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1340.38,"start":1324.26}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^MARK GILLESPIE^","text":"they're going to work hard against them.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1342.05,"start":1340.38}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^MARK GILLESPIE^","text":"I don't care where they work at.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1344.71,"start":1342.05}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^MARK GILLESPIE^","text":"Regardless of what some people in the PAC thinks, it was not white people that asked me to run.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1349.46,"start":1344.71}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^MARK GILLESPIE^","text":"It was Black people that asked me to run, Black people that were tired of them that asked me to run.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1356.34,"start":1349.46}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^MARK GILLESPIE^","text":"And it was several of them.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1358.18,"start":1356.34}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^MARK GILLESPIE^","text":"It was not one or two.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1360.63,"start":1358.18}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^MARK GILLESPIE^","text":"It was several of them asking me to run.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1363.12,"start":1360.63}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ZOE CHACE^","text":"It wasn't like Mac --","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1365.16,"start":1363.12}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ZOE CHACE^","text":"did Mac Campbell call you and say we want to take Cogdell out?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1367.743,"start":1365.16}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^MARK GILLESPIE^","text":"Mac Campbell never called me and asked me to run.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1370.535,"start":1367.743}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^MARK GILLESPIE^","text":"And that's Cogdell.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1371.4,"start":1370.535}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^MARK GILLESPIE^","text":"And I don't like calling his name.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1372.99,"start":1371.4}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^MARK GILLESPIE^","text":"But that's his favorite thing he's telling everybody.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1375.54,"start":1372.99}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^MARK GILLESPIE^","text":"But regardless of what he says, no, I was asked by Black people to run, not Mr. Campbell and his family, who I've known all my life, grew up with his boys.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1385.89,"start":1375.54}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^MARK GILLESPIE^","text":"Once they found out, then they supported me.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1389.07,"start":1385.89}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^MARK GILLESPIE^","text":"But they did not ask me to run.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1390.69,"start":1389.07}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^MARK GILLESPIE^","text":"And there's nothing wrong with them supporting me.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1394.18,"start":1390.69}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"For Mark's part, he's like, that's rich, having Horace and Cogdell accuse him of being controlled by his white supporters.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1402.28,"start":1394.18}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"That's exactly the sort of control the PAC exerts over its candidates.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1406.66,"start":1402.28}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"The candidates the PAC endorses have to vote the way the PAC wants, or they won't get endorsed the next time.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1412.27,"start":1406.66}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"That's the main criterion for whom they choose.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1415.3,"start":1412.27}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^MARK GILLESPIE^","text":"Anybody they can control, that's what I think.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1419.65,"start":1415.3}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^MARK GILLESPIE^","text":"Anybody that thinks like they think and votes the way they want them to vote, no matter what, whether it's an issue that's really not nothing you should be voting against, but because the PAC don't support it, then you are not going to support it.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1434.562,"start":1419.65}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ZOE CHACE^","text":"Like, for example, that sales tax.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1436.52,"start":1434.562}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^MARK GILLESPIE^","text":"Right, the sales tax.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1437.65,"start":1436.52}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^MARK GILLESPIE^","text":"That was the right thing to do.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1439.06,"start":1437.65}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^MARK GILLESPIE^","text":"But they encouraged people to vote against it because it was not designed the way they exactly wanted.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1444.73,"start":1439.06}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"For Mark, the sales tax is straightforward.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1447.41,"start":1444.73}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"The county needs the money.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1449.14,"start":1447.41}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Mark doesn't automatically distrust what other county commissioners say.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1453.34,"start":1449.14}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"If they say it'll go to schools, he believes them.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1456.04,"start":1453.34}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"And he believes it'll be done fairly.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1458.14,"start":1456.04}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Mark was actually a county commissioner once before.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1461.8,"start":1458.14}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"And while Horace likes to say that Mark always voted with the white majority back then, I looked at his past votes and saw that sometimes he did, sometimes he didn't.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1471.625,"start":1461.8}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Mark says he's an independent thinker.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1474.68,"start":1471.625}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"He doesn't align with just one group.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1476.96,"start":1474.68}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"And even though he's running as a Democrat, he doesn't align with just one party either.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1481.482,"start":1476.96}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^MARK GILLESPIE^","text":"I know a lot of people.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1483.19,"start":1481.482}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^MARK GILLESPIE^","text":"I've been around a lot of people.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1484.565,"start":1483.19}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^MARK GILLESPIE^","text":"I treat everybody the same.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1486.22,"start":1484.565}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^MARK GILLESPIE^","text":"I don't care if they're Democrat, Republican, white, Black, green.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1490.15,"start":1486.22}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^MARK GILLESPIE^","text":"Everybody's the same in my eyes, unless they do something to me that prove that they're not.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1494.83,"start":1490.15}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^MARK GILLESPIE^","text":"Yes, there are Republicans that support me.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1497.71,"start":1494.83}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^MARK GILLESPIE^","text":"I got my signs in Republican people's yards.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1500.68,"start":1497.71}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^MARK GILLESPIE^","text":"They said, can you put that sign up?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1503.95,"start":1500.68}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ZOE CHACE^","text":"Who said?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1504.97,"start":1503.95}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^MARK GILLESPIE^","text":"People that own the property where all the Republican signs are at, they asked me to put a sign up there.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1510.19,"start":1504.97}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^MARK GILLESPIE^","text":"And then Republican votes are just as good as Democrat votes.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1514.45,"start":1510.19}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"For Mark, those signs are the perfect symbol of how he plans to be as commissioner -- building coalitions not beholden to any group in particular, open to everyone.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1525.282,"start":1514.45}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"And I mean everyone.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1526.421,"start":1525.282}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING^","text":"Has anybody watched this whole thing on Hunter Biden?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1529.546,"start":1526.421}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING^","text":"Yeah!","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1531.49,"start":1529.546}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING^","text":"Could you imagine if that was me?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1533.782,"start":1531.49}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"At a Trump campaign event in Bladen, Eric Trump was the featured speaker.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1537.82,"start":1533.782}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"I ran into one of Mark's boosters, Ray Britt, Ray Britt of the furniture store in The Ballad of the Nursing Home Ballots.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1545.345,"start":1537.82}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^RAY BRITT^","text":"I look forward to working with him.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1547.345,"start":1545.345}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^RAY BRITT^","text":"Mark Gillespie will be a commissioner.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1549.56,"start":1547.345}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ZOE CHACE^","text":"Oh, you think so?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1550.81,"start":1549.56}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^RAY BRITT^","text":"Mark Gillespie will be a commissioner.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1554.35,"start":1550.81}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Ray was one of the incumbents running for re-election for the county commission himself.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1559.61,"start":1554.35}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"He was in a good mood, seemed relaxed about his own re-election chances.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1563.71,"start":1559.61}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"He was like, if I lose, then God has answered my wife's prayers.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1568.36,"start":1563.71}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Ray was psyched at the prospect of Mark Gillespie being on the board and psyched about who he'd probably replace.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1574.48,"start":1568.36}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^RAY BRITT^","text":"I'm looking forward to his personality, his attitude, and to help everybody.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1582.04,"start":1574.48}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^RAY BRITT^","text":"And I can get more with that than I can Mr. Cogdell.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1586.4,"start":1582.04}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^RAY BRITT^","text":"And I say that with all due respect.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1588.1,"start":1586.4}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^RAY BRITT^","text":"But, you know, when things aren't working, it's time to make a change.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1592.25,"start":1588.1}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^RAY BRITT^","text":"And I think people have seen it's time to make a change.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1594.61,"start":1592.25}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"And it wasn't so much Ray's enthusiasm for Mark, but the way Ray characterized Mark that I noticed as a Black guy who won't only be looking out for Black people.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1605.44,"start":1594.61}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"That's the kind of thing that makes Horace and Cogdell suspicious of Mark.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1609.025,"start":1605.44}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^RAY BRITT^","text":"And Mark Gillespie is one that we can set down and we can do things for this county.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1614.2,"start":1609.025}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^RAY BRITT^","text":"And party won't have anything to do with it.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1616.9,"start":1614.2}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^RAY BRITT^","text":"Race won't have anything to do with it.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1619.18,"start":1616.9}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^RAY BRITT^","text":"Humanity will have a lot to do with it.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1622.3,"start":1619.18}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Ray told me he thought people in the county were tired of Cogdell.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1626.41,"start":1622.3}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"He's done, was Ray's assessment.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1630.01,"start":1626.41}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"More about who's done or isn't done after the break.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1634.24,"start":1630.01}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[MUSIC]","text":"","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1639.97,"start":1638.056}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[MUSIC]","text":"OK, it's time to talk about Willie Lynch.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1644.77,"start":1639.97}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[MUSIC]","text":"In the storefront where the PAC meets, Cogdell's office, there's very little decoration.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1650.47,"start":1644.77}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[MUSIC]","text":"There's a whiteboard and this laminated poster.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1653.32,"start":1650.47}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[MUSIC]","text":"It looks like a manifesto on an old scroll.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1656.62,"start":1653.32}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[MUSIC]","text":"I asked Cogdell about it.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1658.12,"start":1656.62}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^COGDELL^","text":"I'm trying to figure out where I got that thing from.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1661.1,"start":1658.12}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^COGDELL^","text":"Online or somebody's friend gave it to me, or somewhere ... somewhere.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1664.078,"start":1661.1}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^COGDELL^","text":"I can't remember where I got it from.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1665.62,"start":1664.078}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"The poster is an excerpt from a speech, supposedly given in Virginia in the 1700s by this white guy named Willie Lynch, talking to other slave owners about how to solve their, quote unquote, \"problems with slaves,\" how to control them.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1681.47,"start":1665.62}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"The Willie Lynch speech is a known thing.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1683.66,"start":1681.47}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"It's been around.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1684.73,"start":1683.66}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"People quote it.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1685.78,"start":1684.73}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Rappers rap about it.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1687.79,"start":1685.78}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Scholars agree it is definitely not from 300 years ago.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1691.97,"start":1687.79}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"The consensus is, it was probably written by someone in the 1960s.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1696.28,"start":1691.97}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"It resonates.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1697.87,"start":1696.28}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Cogdell thinks what's on this poster explains absolutely what is going on right now between himself and Mark Gillespie in the commissioner race.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1708.13,"start":1697.87}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"He's like, look at the whole picture.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1710.98,"start":1708.13}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"This election is just part of a much larger, much older dynamic.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1715.195,"start":1710.98}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^COGDELL^","text":"Look at this here.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1721.125,"start":1718.21}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^COGDELL^","text":"You're looking at me and Mark run.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1722.77,"start":1721.125}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ZOE CHACE^","text":"Yeah.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1723.52,"start":1722.77}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Cogdell spreads the poster with the speech on it out on the table and starts reading it to me.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1731.5,"start":1725.74}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"This part is offering specific advice about how to best maintain control over enslaved Black people by turning them against each other.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1741.19,"start":1731.5}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^COGDELL^","text":"Don't forget you must pit the old Black versus the young Black males, the young Black males against the old Black males.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1751.03,"start":1741.19}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^COGDELL^","text":"You must use the dark-skinned slaves against the light-skinned slaves, and light-skinned slaves against the dark skinned.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1758.89,"start":1751.03}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^COGDELL^","text":"You must use the female versus the male, and the male versus the female.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1765.01,"start":1758.89}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^COGDELL^","text":"What's wrong with that statement that you don't see happening today?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1768.45,"start":1765.01}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^COGDELL^","text":"Tell me.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1769.62,"start":1768.45}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ZOE CHACE^","text":"No, you tell me.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1771.69,"start":1769.62}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^COGDELL^","text":"It always happens every day.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1773.95,"start":1771.69}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^COGDELL^","text":"Every day.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1776.17,"start":1773.95}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^COGDELL^","text":"You see Mark, a young man running against an old man.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1778.75,"start":1776.17}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^COGDELL^","text":"Pit the old against the young.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1780.68,"start":1778.75}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^COGDELL^","text":"You got Minnie Price, old lady, white lady, male against a male -- female.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1786.697,"start":1780.68}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^COGDELL^","text":"Every time you see that, my position is happening right there.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1789.28,"start":1786.697}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^COGDELL^","text":"They keep that type of thing going all the time.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1791.53,"start":1789.28}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ZOE CHACE^","text":"You think that's a design of the white --","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1793.78,"start":1791.53}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^COGDELL^","text":"It's designed.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1794.68,"start":1793.78}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ZOE CHACE^","text":"Political interests?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1796.055,"start":1794.68}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^COGDELL^","text":"Yes, it is.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1798.12,"start":1796.055}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^COGDELL^","text":"That's the way it is.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1801.08,"start":1798.12}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"That's the way it is.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1802.67,"start":1801.08}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"That's the way it has always been.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1805.95,"start":1802.67}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^MINNIE PRICE^","text":"The Willie Lynch situation with Mark is just totally ignorant and out of place.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1812.25,"start":1805.95}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^MINNIE PRICE^","text":"Leave that Willie Lynch thing alone, and start thinking times have changed.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1819.03,"start":1812.25}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Minnie Price has a different view.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1821.85,"start":1819.03}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"For one thing, she does not believe that taking money from white donors makes her nephew into some sort of pawn in the white man's master plan.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1830.43,"start":1821.85}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"The PAC takes money from white people all the time, she says.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1833.79,"start":1830.43}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"It's not different.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1834.93,"start":1833.79}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Voters aren't going to see it as different.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1837.36,"start":1834.93}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Minnie sees no reason why Mark should be embarrassed about where the bulk of his campaign money came from.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1843.15,"start":1837.36}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^MINNIE PRICE^","text":"Cogdell wants to make everything about Black and white, and so does Horace.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1848.57,"start":1843.15}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^MINNIE PRICE^","text":"That's the impression that I get from them, really.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1851.72,"start":1848.57}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^MINNIE PRICE^","text":"They have that mentality that if a white man give you something, you got to do whatever he tells you to do when you get in that position.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1860.48,"start":1851.72}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^MINNIE PRICE^","text":"But that's not the way that I see it.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1863.27,"start":1860.48}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^MINNIE PRICE^","text":"That's slavery.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1864.34,"start":1863.27}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^MINNIE PRICE^","text":"I mean, that's a slavery mentality.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1866.69,"start":1864.34}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^MINNIE PRICE^","text":"They think that it's back in slavery time, and it's not.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1872.46,"start":1866.69}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^MINNIE PRICE^","text":"You might think that we're in slavery.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1874.26,"start":1872.46}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^MINNIE PRICE^","text":"I mean, sometimes they act like or treat us like that.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1877.5,"start":1874.26}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^MINNIE PRICE^","text":"But it's not slavery anymore.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1880.13,"start":1877.5}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ZOE CHACE^","text":"Wait, so slavery mentality.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1882.32,"start":1880.13}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ZOE CHACE^","text":"Can you define that for me?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1883.56,"start":1882.32}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ZOE CHACE^","text":"What is that?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1884.212,"start":1883.56}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^MINNIE PRICE^","text":"What I'm saying is like the white man, you out there working for the white man.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1888.17,"start":1884.212}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^MINNIE PRICE^","text":"You're sharecropping.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1889.045,"start":1888.17}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^MINNIE PRICE^","text":"You got to do what he says.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1890.36,"start":1889.045}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^MINNIE PRICE^","text":"He tells you to do this, you got to do it.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1892.705,"start":1890.36}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ZOE CHACE^","text":"Because you owe him.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1894.08,"start":1892.705}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ZOE CHACE^","text":"You're on his land or whatever.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1895.372,"start":1894.08}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^MINNIE PRICE^","text":"Yeah.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1896.98,"start":1895.372}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Minnie Price and Horace and Cogdell are not that far apart in age or experience.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1903.61,"start":1896.98}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"They have overlapping histories when it comes to dealing with race and racism around here.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1908.38,"start":1903.61}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"And then they all left the area.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1910.15,"start":1908.38}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"They went and lived their adult lives far from Bladen County for many years.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1915.28,"start":1910.15}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Those years away landed them in very different places when it comes to the fundamental issue of when, how, or even if you can trust and work with white people.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1925.96,"start":1915.28}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"When Horace recalls his time in the army serving all over the world, he talks a lot about the racism he experienced from white officers, even though, obviously, they were all supposed to be on the same side.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1938.68,"start":1925.96}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"When Minnie talks about New York City, where she lived and worked for 18 years, she tells stories about hanging out with co-workers, who were mostly white, getting a Coke after work, going out to eat.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1951.07,"start":1938.68}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"She made friends.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1952.06,"start":1951.07}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"She had a good job.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1952.99,"start":1952.06}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"She got promoted.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1954.19,"start":1952.99}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"She built a life on the idea that she could work with white people, be the boss of white people, and get what she wanted.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1961.18,"start":1954.19}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"She finally returned to Bladen County with that mindset intact.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1965.77,"start":1961.18}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"You can see it manifested outside the charter school she founded.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1969.37,"start":1965.77}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Recently engraved on a stone outside is not Minnie's name, but the name Mac Campbell.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1975.58,"start":1969.37}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"She needed help with the school's gym.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1977.59,"start":1975.58}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"And she got a donation from rich white Matt Campbell, the same Campbell who's given money to her nephew Mark's campaign.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1985.666,"start":1977.59}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Horace and Cogdell see that Stone with Campbell's name on it, that donation, as cynical, a way to control her.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1993.31,"start":1985.666}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"They figure that's why she's now trying to take Cogdell out, because she's beholden to Mac Campbell.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1998.86,"start":1993.31}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"And Campbell has it out for Cogdell.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2001.86,"start":1998.86}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"To them, it's a clear case of Willie Lynch in action.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2006.65,"start":2001.86}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Minnie says she doesn't feel controlled.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2009.19,"start":2006.65}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"She feels like she got something done through connections, just like a lot of people do.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2014.12,"start":2009.19}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"She wishes Horace and Cogdell would take another view sometimes.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2017.96,"start":2014.12}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"For instance, look at Mark's relationships with white people differently, as a possible advantage in getting things done around here.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2025.16,"start":2017.96}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^MINNIE PRICE^","text":"If they had a different -- would take a different attitude and approach and just try to get along with Mark, it could be a whole lot different.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2036.028,"start":2025.16}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ZOE CHACE^","text":"It could be.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2037.07,"start":2036.028}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^MINNIE PRICE^","text":"It could be a whole lot different if they would just get rid of that animosity that they have in them and try to deal with Mark.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2043.94,"start":2037.07}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^MINNIE PRICE^","text":"Because Mark is open to dealing with them, but they are not open to dealing with him because they think that he's going to be the white man's little token.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2053.96,"start":2043.94}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^MINNIE PRICE^","text":"And that's not true.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2057.19,"start":2053.96}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^MINNIE PRICE^","text":"But he's been dealing with white folks all of his life.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2061.199,"start":2057.19}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^MINNIE PRICE^","text":"All of his life, he's dealt with them.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2063.63,"start":2061.199}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^MINNIE PRICE^","text":"He knows how to deal with them.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2065.19,"start":2063.63}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"On election night, I figured there'd be a ton of people at the Board of Elections to see how this big race plays out.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2077.01,"start":2070.01}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"But no.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2077.78,"start":2077.01}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"COVID has made this election night cold and isolated.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2081.38,"start":2077.78}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Instead of gathering at the Board of Elections, the counties decided to hold the election results watching party in a middle school gym with social distancing.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2090.32,"start":2081.38}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"When I get there, it's only reporters.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2092.9,"start":2090.32}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Charlotte Smith with Bladen Online, who'd spoken up about the sales tax in that county commission meeting, a few others, and me.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2101.36,"start":2092.9}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"There's three county commissioner spots open, five people running.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2105.8,"start":2101.36}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Cogdell and Mark could both lose.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2108.08,"start":2105.8}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"That's a possibility.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2109.49,"start":2108.08}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Also, they could maybe both win.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2113.63,"start":2109.49}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Cogdell and Mark could both end up on the county commission together after this long, bitter campaign.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2121.45,"start":2113.63}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"There's a big screen in front of the gym that keeps updating as results come in from the various precincts.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2127.99,"start":2121.45}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Finally, Cogdell bursts in, looking distracted.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2131.47,"start":2127.99}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"He's the only candidate here.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2133.42,"start":2131.47}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"He pulls up a folding chair to the top of the key -- we're on a basketball court --","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2137.74,"start":2133.42}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"and asked me where he's at.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2139.734,"start":2137.74}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Um, well, you're behind Mark and Ray, I'm saying.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2143.44,"start":2139.734}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^COGDELL^","text":"[INAUDIBLE]:","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2145.368,"start":2143.44}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[PHONE RINGING]","text":"","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2148.75,"start":2145.368}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[PHONE RINGING]","text":"Hello?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2149.77,"start":2148.75}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^HORACE^","text":"You'll be all right.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2151.02,"start":2149.77}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^COGDELL^","text":"Why do you figure that?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2152.437,"start":2151.02}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"It's Horace.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2153.55,"start":2152.437}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"He says, you'll be all right.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2155.44,"start":2153.55}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"And Cogdell's like, how do you figure that?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2158.14,"start":2155.44}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Cogdell looks a little stressed, holding the phone loosely to his ear, eyes fixed on the results.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2164.17,"start":2158.14}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Horace gets into detail about what areas have voted, what's been counted.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2168.25,"start":2164.17}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Basically says, just wait.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2170.02,"start":2168.25}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"It looks like you're down, but the Black areas haven't come in yet.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2173.92,"start":2170.02}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Horace is like a coach shaking the shoulders of his man, like you're still in the game.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2179.02,"start":2173.92}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"But Ray Britt and Mark Gillespie seem to be running away with it.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2183.31,"start":2179.02}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Cogdell and this Republican, David Gooden, are vying for the last open spot on the commission.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2189.19,"start":2183.31}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"There are very few votes between Cogdell and Gooden.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2192.4,"start":2189.19}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Cogdell is ahead for the moment.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2195.52,"start":2192.4}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Charlotte Smith with Bladen Online, she sees this as imminent victory for Cogdell and comes over to get his comment.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2202.57,"start":2195.52}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"She's got her phone up horizontal.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2204.7,"start":2202.57}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"She's doing a Facebook Live, narrating as she wanders around the gym.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2208.96,"start":2204.7}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Mr. Cogdell, you're in the lead right now, she's saying.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2212.05,"start":2208.96}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^CHARLOTTE SMITH^","text":"Mr. Cogdell, you are in the lead right now, um, keeping your seat so far.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2217.87,"start":2212.05}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^CHARLOTTE SMITH^","text":"How are you feeling about the race?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2219.61,"start":2217.87}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^COGDELL^","text":"Yeah, it's a good race.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2222.19,"start":2219.61}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^COGDELL^","text":"I'm saying it's a good one.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2223.315,"start":2222.19}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^COGDELL^","text":"I'm sitting here watching it.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2224.73,"start":2223.315}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^CHARLOTTE SMITH^","text":"Yeah.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2225.73,"start":2224.73}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^COGDELL^","text":"And see what it's going to end up in.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2227.74,"start":2225.73}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^COGDELL^","text":"See who coming in here, what's going to come in last.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2230.83,"start":2227.74}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^COGDELL^","text":"Still got, how many, three more precincts to come in.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2233.41,"start":2230.83}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^CHARLOTTE SMITH^","text":"Yes, sir.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2234.976,"start":2233.41}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^COGDELL^","text":"See where we got.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2236.47,"start":2234.976}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^CHARLOTTE SMITH^","text":"What's your goal if you get re-elected?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2239.32,"start":2236.47}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^CHARLOTTE SMITH^","text":"Have you worked with any of --","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2240.61,"start":2239.32}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"It's awkward.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2242.02,"start":2240.61}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Charlotte is talking to Cogdell as if he's the victor, but Cogdell seems kind of freaked out, while he vaguely lists his political goals.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2249.417,"start":2242.02}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^CHARLOTTE SMITH^","text":"Do you have any goals in mind that you want to --","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2252.25,"start":2249.417}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^COGDELL^","text":"Well, just do some economic development stuff in the county.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2257.8,"start":2252.25}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^COGDELL^","text":"If I can squeeze in, I might be squeezing out of the door.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2263.14,"start":2257.8}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^COGDELL^","text":"But I think I might be all right.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2266.29,"start":2263.14}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Does he?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2267.85,"start":2266.29}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"It's not that he looks upset.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2269.59,"start":2267.85}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"It's that the mischievous part of his face is totally absent, the part I'm used to.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2275.14,"start":2269.59}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"He doesn't want to make jokes.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2277.03,"start":2275.14}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"These numbers he's watching, what if they don't add up?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2280.42,"start":2277.03}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Not just for him personally, but what if they don't add up for the whole thing?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2285.19,"start":2280.42}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"The PAC, the limited power they've managed to wrest out of a system that really is stacked against them.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2291.4,"start":2285.19}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Finally, all the precincts are in.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2297.33,"start":2295.35}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"And all of us, about 10 of us there, just watch the projector.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2302.076,"start":2297.33}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^COGDELL^","text":"This is it right here.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2303.57,"start":2302.076}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ZOE CHACE^","text":"This is it.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2304.65,"start":2303.57}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^COGDELL^","text":"This is make or break it.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2307.504,"start":2304.65}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[PHONE RINGING]","text":"","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2310.77,"start":2307.504}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[PHONE RINGING]","text":"Hello?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2311.79,"start":2310.77}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"It's Horace again.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2313.44,"start":2311.79}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Cogdell is in by 15 votes.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2316.65,"start":2313.44}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"15-vote win.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2319.31,"start":2316.65}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"I can hear Horace on the other end.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2322.04,"start":2319.31}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Damn, them bastards, Horace says.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2324.98,"start":2322.04}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Them bastards.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2326.99,"start":2324.98}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"They were shooting at me hard, Cogdell says.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2329.93,"start":2326.99}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"I didn't see it coming, Horace says.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2332.37,"start":2329.93}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"I told you they were going at me as hard as they could, Cogdell says.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2336.65,"start":2332.37}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"I don't know whether it's going to hold up or not.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2338.93,"start":2336.65}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Do you reckon?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2341.57,"start":2338.93}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"So yeah, like I said, three seats, five people running.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2346.19,"start":2341.57}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Cogdell won by a hair.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2348.14,"start":2346.19}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"But Mark was in, too, by a lot more votes.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2351.92,"start":2348.14}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"On the hour long drive from Elizabethtown to my hotel that night, Minnie called to talk about just that.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2358.58,"start":2351.92}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"I held my microphone up to the speaker with one hand while driving.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2362.72,"start":2358.58}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"She sounded psyched.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2364.49,"start":2362.72}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Mark's win was her victory, too.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2367.077,"start":2364.49}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^MINNIE PRICE^","text":"Ma'am, this is Minnie.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2368.66,"start":2367.077}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ZOE CHACE^","text":"Are you in a good mood?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2373.04,"start":2371.51}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^MINNIE PRICE^","text":"I'll be very good mood.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2375.29,"start":2373.04}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^MINNIE PRICE^","text":"My nephew came in second place.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2377.96,"start":2375.29}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ZOE CHACE^","text":"He got a lot of votes.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2379.49,"start":2377.96}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^MINNIE PRICE^","text":"Almost 400 more than Cogdell.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2382.64,"start":2379.49}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^MINNIE PRICE^","text":"You got two blocks on there.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2384.62,"start":2382.64}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^MINNIE PRICE^","text":"And Cogdell worried about splitting the votes.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2387.594,"start":2384.62}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^MINNIE PRICE^","text":"And I'm glad.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2388.136,"start":2387.594}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^MINNIE PRICE^","text":"I mean, Cogdell is on there.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2389.78,"start":2388.136}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^MINNIE PRICE^","text":"My nephew's on there.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2390.8,"start":2389.78}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^MINNIE PRICE^","text":"That's good.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2391.49,"start":2390.8}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^MINNIE PRICE^","text":"Like I told you, either way, it's fine with me.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2396.05,"start":2391.49}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"For the record, Minnie has never said to me that Cogdell being on the board is fine with her.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2402.68,"start":2396.05}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Minnie keeps careful track of voting patterns as best she can, just like the PAC.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2407.72,"start":2402.68}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Who do you think voted for him?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2409.29,"start":2407.72}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"I asked her.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2410.03,"start":2409.29}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Did you get a black-white coalition?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2412.363,"start":2410.03}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^MINNIE PRICE^","text":"Black and white --","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2413.78,"start":2412.363}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^MINNIE PRICE^","text":"Black and white voted for Mark, young and old.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2418.085,"start":2413.78}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^MINNIE PRICE^","text":"A lot of young people voted for Mark.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2420.98,"start":2418.085}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"If she's right, this would be something remarkable in this county.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2425.24,"start":2420.98}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Black and white voters putting a Black county commissioner into office.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2429.17,"start":2425.24}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[BEEPING]","text":"","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2430.146,"start":2429.17}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ZOE CHACE^","text":"You did.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2431.122,"start":2430.146}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^MINNIE PRICE^","text":"I did.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2433.57,"start":2431.122}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"That's Horace calling me on the other line.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2436.495,"start":2433.57}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"I say my goodbyes to Minnie and click over.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2440.05,"start":2436.495}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Even though Cogdell kept his seat, Horace's vibe is like the polar opposite of Minnie's.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2445.63,"start":2440.05}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ZOE CHACE^","text":"Did Mark take Black votes from Cogdell, I guess, is my question.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2450.86,"start":2445.63}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^HORACE^","text":"Yeah, a lot.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2452.02,"start":2450.86}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^HORACE^","text":"He got about 2000 and Ray Britt probably got a few too.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2459.48,"start":2452.02}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ZOE CHACE^","text":"Well, how did it get to this point, do you think?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2463.18,"start":2459.48}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^HORACE^","text":"Minnie Price.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2465.05,"start":2463.18}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^HORACE^","text":"She's been very destructive towards the organization.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2467.86,"start":2465.05}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^HORACE^","text":"We got a mess right now.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2470.12,"start":2467.86}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^HORACE^","text":"We have a mess.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2471.397,"start":2470.12}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^HORACE^","text":"What we're going to do is we're going to regroup, go back to the drawing boards.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2474.73,"start":2471.397}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^HORACE^","text":"See what happened.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2476.41,"start":2474.73}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Horace starts listing off the stuff Cogdell does when he's not running for office --","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2481.21,"start":2476.41}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"working with felons on getting their records expunged, helping people get funding to rebuild after back to back hurricanes down here.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2489.63,"start":2481.21}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"I ask Horace about Cogdell, how he's doing.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2493.98,"start":2489.63}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^HORACE^","text":"He has a feeling, just down, just knowing that all his credentials, trying to help people, especially people of color, and for them to just turn on him like that.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2504.595,"start":2493.98}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^HORACE^","text":"It has to be disheartening, you know?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2509.21,"start":2504.595}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^HORACE^","text":"It has to be.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2512.76,"start":2509.21}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"By the time I get back to my hotel room, Horace was still talking, repeating himself, worrying.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2519.12,"start":2512.76}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"I almost never hear him sound vulnerable.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2521.91,"start":2519.12}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"He talks about how he just wants to help Black people down here, where he's from.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2526.71,"start":2521.91}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"And why don't they want his help?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2528.36,"start":2526.71}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^HORACE^","text":"It's sad.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2529.152,"start":2528.36}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^HORACE^","text":"It's so sad.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2533.826,"start":2531.82}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^HORACE^","text":"It's a step back for my organization.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2537.24,"start":2533.826}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^HORACE^","text":"It's a step back for Black people in my county.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2542.19,"start":2537.24}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^HORACE^","text":"But I can only say it to you.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2543.69,"start":2542.19}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^HORACE^","text":"All I can do is keep fighting.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2545.255,"start":2543.69}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^HORACE^","text":"That's all we can do.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2546.13,"start":2545.255}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^HORACE^","text":"With that said, Ms. Zoe Chace --","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2551.02,"start":2548.77}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ZOE CHACE^","text":"Yes.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2552.07,"start":2551.02}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^HORACE^","text":"-- God bless you.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2553.195,"start":2552.07}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^HORACE^","text":"Have a nice night.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2554.03,"start":2553.195}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ZOE CHACE^","text":"OK.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2555.01,"start":2554.03}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ZOE CHACE^","text":"I'll talk to you tomorrow, though, OK?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2556.978,"start":2555.01}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^HORACE^","text":"Sure, OK.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2557.77,"start":2556.978}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Two years ago, when Horace first called me down to Bladen, he and Cogdell were emphatic.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2566.74,"start":2560.86}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"They're out to get us, take us down.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2569.62,"start":2566.74}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"And now here we are.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2571.36,"start":2569.62}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Like Horace says, it's a mess.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2574.36,"start":2571.36}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"You can draw a direct line --","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2576.34,"start":2574.36}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"I have -- from the cheating allegations that have dogged the PAC for years to the hearing in Raleigh about the 2018 congressional race to Democratic candidate Dan McCready distancing himself from the PAC, which then led to a crackup within the PAC,","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2591.85,"start":2576.34}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"which led to a deliberate splitting of the Black vote in Mark's election engineered by the former PAC treasurer, Minnie Price.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2601.58,"start":2591.85}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Horace and Cogdell couldn't have possibly predicted this exact sequence of events when we first met.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2607.25,"start":2601.58}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"They just knew something bad was coming.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2609.75,"start":2607.25}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"And after Minnie's big success, the question I had was, if the PAC falls apart, does it matter?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2616.7,"start":2609.75}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Is its voting bloc still the best way to build Black political power in Bladen County?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2622.85,"start":2616.7}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Is the PAC still technically necessary?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2626.75,"start":2622.85}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"One way to think about that is to look at whether racially polarized voting is still the norm in Bladen County.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2635.01,"start":2626.75}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"A while ago, I asked the same guy who did the study back in 1987, around when the PAC was formed, were white voters still only voting for white candidates?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2646.47,"start":2635.01}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Can you look again and tell me how much has changed here actually in how people vote?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2652.86,"start":2646.47}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"His answer was not a lot.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2655.89,"start":2652.86}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Not a lot has changed.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2657.8,"start":2655.89}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"I sent him a handful of elections from the last 10 years that I could find of a white versus a Black candidate in Bladen County.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2665.16,"start":2657.8}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"He sent me back the results with this bleak conclusion.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2669.42,"start":2665.16}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"If these contests are representative of all those taking place recently in the county, it appears that voters are approximately as polarized today as they were 40 years ago.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2681.67,"start":2669.42}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"If that's the case, Horace and Cogdell know their corner of North Carolina.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2687.31,"start":2681.67}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"The PAC and its voting bloc is still a big deal and, it seems, still necessary.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2694.57,"start":2687.31}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"But the voting bloc is just people.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2697.61,"start":2694.57}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"And people are ornery and particular and egotistical and fickle.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2702.175,"start":2697.61}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"They're what makes the voting bloc powerful and vulnerable.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2706.54,"start":2702.175}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"It's like the cheating allegations kicked at the PAC and found a hornet's nest.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2711.61,"start":2706.54}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Everyone inside got agitated and jumped up and zoomed around in different directions.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2717.64,"start":2711.61}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Minnie went on the attack.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2719.44,"start":2717.64}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"Horace and Cogdell dug in.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2721.78,"start":2719.44}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"ZOE CHACE","text":"People split, and I don't know if Cogdell and Horace can keep everyone together or if people will splinter further, especially since the suspicion in Bladen, the suspicion of cheating, the suspicion that someone's getting away with something, that's not going away.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2740.13,"start":2721.78}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[MUSIC]","text":"","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2746.318,"start":2742.986}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[MUSIC]","text":"I submit to you this last quick story --","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2751.8,"start":2747.75}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[MUSIC]","text":"call it The Epilogue.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2754.46,"start":2751.8}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[MUSIC]","text":"This past election, the Mark Gillespie one, November 2020, I went through all the complaints filed at the Bladen Board of Elections, saw some familiar names in there, including Jane Pait and Bobby Ludlum.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2768.89,"start":2754.46}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[MUSIC]","text":"Bobby wrote up a complaint about Cogdell for improper voter assistance.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2774.05,"start":2768.89}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[MUSIC]","text":"Nothing ever happened, I heard.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2776,"start":2774.05}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[MUSIC]","text":"Nothing was done.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2777.41,"start":2776}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[MUSIC]","text":"So I called the Bladen Board of Elections and talked to the current director, Chris Williams, who investigated the complaint himself.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2785.7,"start":2777.41}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[MUSIC]","text":"He said he'd gone over to the polling place, talked to the poll judge.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2790.1,"start":2785.7}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[MUSIC]","text":"She said she hadn't seen Cogdell in there.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2793.16,"start":2790.1}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[MUSIC]","text":"He then drew a diagram of the polling place, determined this was very unlikely to have happened the way Bobby described it, and Chris wrote it all up.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2802.92,"start":2793.16}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[MUSIC]","text":"The election board members considered it and decided not to hold a hearing.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2809.79,"start":2802.92}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[MUSIC]","text":"So this being Bladen County, I'm sure that's the end of that.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2814.05,"start":2809.79}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[MUSIC]","text":"","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2826.82,"start":2823.87}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[MUSIC]","text":"The Improvement Association is produced and edited by Nancy Updike and me.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2832.37,"start":2826.82}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[MUSIC]","text":"Neil Drumming is our managing editor.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2834.5,"start":2832.37}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[MUSIC]","text":"Julie Snyder is executive editor.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2836.81,"start":2834.5}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[MUSIC]","text":"Additional editing by Sarah Koenig and Ira Glass.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2840.35,"start":2836.81}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[MUSIC]","text":"R.L. Nave is our editorial consultant.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2843.17,"start":2840.35}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[MUSIC]","text":"Fact-checking and research by Ben Phelan.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2845.57,"start":2843.17}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[MUSIC]","text":"Music supervision and mixing by Phoebe Wang.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2848.75,"start":2845.57}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[MUSIC]","text":"Amy Pedulla is our associate producer.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2851.12,"start":2848.75}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[MUSIC]","text":"Ndeye Thioubou is the supervising producer.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2853.97,"start":2851.12}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[MUSIC]","text":"Original music composed by Kwame Brandt-Pierce.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2857.51,"start":2853.97}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[MUSIC]","text":"Additional support from the staff at This American Life, including Emanuele Berry, Julie Whitaker, Cassie Howley, Seth Lind and Frances Swanson.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2866.51,"start":2857.51}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[MUSIC]","text":"At The New York Times, Sam Dolnick, Lauren Jackson, Elizabeth Davis-Moorer, Alena Cerro and Nora Keller.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2873.98,"start":2866.51}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[MUSIC]","text":"Special thanks to Matt Tierney, Stowe Nelson, Mary Frances Berry, Lizzy Berryman, Mac Campbell, George Dunlap, Maria Edwards, Emily Featherstun, Lindsey Gauzza, Dana Green, Bob Hall, Kevin Leonard, Greg Martin, Pat Melvin, Phoebe Judge, Sarah Price, Dr. Ophelia Munn-Goins, Ricky Price, Alexandra Settelmayer, Patsy Shepard, Al-Amyn Sumar and Greg Taylor.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2896.81,"start":2873.98}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[MUSIC]","text":"And to all my colleagues at This American Life, thank you so much for your patience and support.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2909.57,"start":2902.63}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[MUSIC]","text":"And to everyone in Bladen County, North Carolina, for your incredible generosity with your time.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2917.06,"start":2909.57}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[MUSIC]","text":"The Improvement Association is produced by Serial Productions and The New York Times.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2923.62,"start":2917.06}}]},"credit":"","fileUrl":"https:\u002F\u002Fdts.podtrac.com\u002Fredirect.mp3\u002Fchrt.fm\u002Ftrack\u002F8DB4DB\u002Fpdst.fm\u002Fe\u002Fnyt.simplecastaudio.com\u002Fd7b66137-c66c-4a78-a832-79703f55da09\u002Fepisodes\u002F7363e0ba-3a27-4ac3-996a-705bad4985fd\u002Faudio\u002F128\u002Fdefault.mp3?awCollectionId=d7b66137-c66c-4a78-a832-79703f55da09&awEpisodeId=7363e0ba-3a27-4ac3-996a-705bad4985fd","firstPublished":"2021-04-27T08:36:45.000Z","headline":{"__typename":"CreativeWorkHeadline","default":"Listen to Chapter Five."},"id":"QXVkaW86bnl0Oi8vYXVkaW8vY2ZlODg0MWEtZjI1ZC01NDExLWEyZmItNzkwM2IzZGQ5MWM4","length":3045,"podcastSeries":{"__typename":"AudioPodcastSeries","image":{"__typename":"Image","crops":[{"__typename":"ImageCrop","renditions":[{"__typename":"ImageRendition","height":75,"name":"thumbStandard","url":"https:\u002F\u002Fstatic01.nyt.com\u002Fimages\u002F2021\u002F02\u002F17\u002Fpodcasts\u002Ftia-serial-albumartwork\u002Ftia-serial-albumartwork-thumbStandard.png","width":75},{"__typename":"ImageRendition","height":150,"name":"thumbLarge","url":"https:\u002F\u002Fstatic01.nyt.com\u002Fimages\u002F2021\u002F02\u002F17\u002Fpodcasts\u002Ftia-serial-albumartwork\u002Ftia-serial-albumartwork-thumbLarge.png","width":150}]}],"id":"SW1hZ2U6bnl0Oi8vaW1hZ2UvYTY1NTkxMGItZjVhZC01ZGZkLThmMTMtZDQ0NTNlMTAzNTRk"},"name":"The-Improvement-Association","summary":"TKTKTKTKTKTKTKTKTKTKTKTKTKTKTK","title":"The Improvement Association"},"promotionalHeadline":"Listen to Chapter Five.","section":{"__typename":"Section","id":"U2VjdGlvbjpueXQ6Ly9zZWN0aW9uLzExMDc5OTg3LWFlOGQtNWY1Zi04YzJlLThjNjZkMzM3ZDJiYQ==","name":"podcasts"},"sourceId":"100000007696892","summary":"The Bladen Improvement PAC faces a new challenge — but how new is it really?","uri":"nyt:\u002F\u002Faudio\u002Fcfe8841a-f25d-5411-a2fb-7903b3dd91c8"}},{"__typename":"Dropzone","adsDesktop":true,"adsDesktopHoldout":false,"adsHybrid":true,"adsMobile":true,"adsMobileHoldout":false,"bad":false,"index":15},{"__typename":"ParagraphBlock","content":[{"__typename":"TextInline","formats":[],"text":"The Bladen Improvement PAC’s power is threatened when an unlikely candidate enters the race for county commissioner. People outside the PAC are starting to make clear that they have their own ideas about how to build Black political power in the county."}],"textAlign":"LEFT"},{"__typename":"Dropzone","adsDesktop":false,"adsDesktopHoldout":false,"adsHybrid":false,"adsMobile":false,"adsMobileHoldout":false,"bad":true,"index":16},{"__typename":"ImageBlock","media":{"__typename":"Image","altText":"","caption":{"__typename":"TextOnlyDocumentBlock","content":[{"__typename":"ParagraphBlock","content":[{"__typename":"TextInline","formats":[],"text":"A view along Hwy. 87 in Bladen County."}]}],"text":"A view along Hwy. 87 in Bladen County."},"credit":"Jeremy M. Lange for The New York 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view along Hwy. 87 in Bladen County.","timesTags":[],"uri":"nyt:\u002F\u002Fimage\u002F11097054-5da3-56c4-9dd7-564a10f5dee0","url":"\u002Fimagepages\u002F2021\u002F04\u002F07\u002Fpodcasts\u002Ftia-scene-6.html"},"size":"MEDIUM"},{"__typename":"Dropzone","adsDesktop":false,"adsDesktopHoldout":false,"adsHybrid":false,"adsMobile":false,"adsMobileHoldout":false,"bad":true,"index":17},{"__typename":"RuleBlock","type":null},{"__typename":"Dropzone","adsDesktop":false,"adsDesktopHoldout":true,"adsHybrid":false,"adsMobile":false,"adsMobileHoldout":true,"bad":false,"index":18},{"__typename":"Heading3Block","content":[{"__typename":"TextInline","formats":[{"__typename":"BoldFormat","type":null}],"text":"Behind this series:"}],"textAlign":"LEFT"},{"__typename":"ImageBlock","media":{"__typename":"Image","altText":"","caption":{"__typename":"TextOnlyDocumentBlock","content":[{"__typename":"ParagraphBlock","content":[{"__typename":"TextInline","formats":[],"text":"From left, Nancy Updike, the producer for this series, and Zoe Chace, the reporter for this series.&nbsp;"}]}],"text":"From left, Nancy Updike, the producer for this series, and Zoe Chace, the reporter for this series.&nbsp;"},"credit":"Sandy 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left, Nancy Updike, the producer for this series, and Zoe Chace, the reporter for this series.&nbsp;","timesTags":[],"uri":"nyt:\u002F\u002Fimage\u002F77cd6918-2487-5076-9b8c-c2795aa3d454","url":"\u002Fimagepages\u002F2021\u002F03\u002F29\u002Fpodcasts\u002F30tia-launch-headshots.html"},"size":"MEDIUM"},{"__typename":"Dropzone","adsDesktop":false,"adsDesktopHoldout":false,"adsHybrid":true,"adsMobile":true,"adsMobileHoldout":false,"bad":true,"index":19},{"__typename":"ParagraphBlock","content":[{"__typename":"TextInline","formats":[{"__typename":"BoldFormat","type":null}],"text":"Zoe Chace"},{"__typename":"TextInline","formats":[],"text":", the reporter for this series, has been a producer at This American Life since 2015. Before that, she was a reporter for NPR’s Planet Money team, as well as an NPR producer."}],"textAlign":"LEFT"},{"__typename":"Dropzone","adsDesktop":false,"adsDesktopHoldout":false,"adsHybrid":false,"adsMobile":false,"adsMobileHoldout":false,"bad":false,"index":20},{"__typename":"ParagraphBlock","content":[{"__typename":"TextInline","formats":[{"__typename":"BoldFormat","type":null}],"text":"Nancy Updike, "},{"__typename":"TextInline","formats":[],"text":"the producer for this series, is a senior editor at This American Life and one of the founding producers of the show."}],"textAlign":"LEFT"},{"__typename":"DetailBlock","content":[{"__typename":"TextInline","formats":[{"__typename":"BoldFormat","type":null}],"text":"Transcripts of each episode of The Improvement Association will be available by the next workday after an episode publishes."}],"textAlign":"LEFT"},{"__typename":"Dropzone","adsDesktop":false,"adsDesktopHoldout":false,"adsHybrid":false,"adsMobile":false,"adsMobileHoldout":false,"bad":true,"index":21},{"__typename":"RelatedLinksBlock","description":[{"__typename":"TextInline","formats":[{"__typename":"ItalicFormat","type":null}],"text":"Tune in, and tell us what you think at "},{"__typename":"TextInline","formats":[{"__typename":"ItalicFormat","type":null},{"__typename":"LinkFormat","title":"","uri":null,"url":"mailto:improvementassociation@nytimes.com"}],"text":"improvementassociation@nytimes.com"},{"__typename":"TextInline","formats":[{"__typename":"ItalicFormat","type":null}],"text":". For corrections, email: "},{"__typename":"TextInline","formats":[{"__typename":"ItalicFormat","type":null},{"__typename":"LinkFormat","title":"","uri":null,"url":"mailto:nytnews@nytimes.com"}],"text":"nytnews@nytimes.com"},{"__typename":"TextInline","formats":[{"__typename":"ItalicFormat","type":null}],"text":". Follow Zoe Chace on Twitter: "},{"__typename":"TextInline","formats":[{"__typename":"ItalicFormat","type":null},{"__typename":"LinkFormat","title":"","uri":null,"url":"https:\u002F\u002Ftwitter.com\u002Fzchace?lang=en"}],"text":"@zchace"},{"__typename":"TextInline","formats":[{"__typename":"ItalicFormat","type":null}],"text":"."}],"displayStyle":"COMPACT","related":[],"title":[{"__typename":"TextInline","formats":[],"text":"We want to hear from you."}]},{"__typename":"Dropzone","adsDesktop":false,"adsDesktopHoldout":false,"adsHybrid":false,"adsMobile":false,"adsMobileHoldout":false,"bad":true,"index":22},{"__typename":"RuleBlock","type":null},{"__typename":"DetailBlock","content":[{"__typename":"TextInline","formats":[],"text":"The Improvement Association was reported by Zoe Chace; produced by Nancy Updike, with help from Amy Pedulla; edited by Julie Snyder, Sarah Koenig, Neil Drumming and Ira Glass; editorial consulting by R.L. Nave and Tim Tyson; fact-checking and research by Ben Phelan; and sound design and mix by Phoebe Wang."}],"textAlign":"LEFT"},{"__typename":"DetailBlock","content":[{"__typename":"TextInline","formats":[],"text":"The original score for The Improvement Association was written and performed by Kwame Brandt-Pierce."}],"textAlign":"LEFT"},{"__typename":"DetailBlock","content":[{"__typename":"TextInline","formats":[],"text":"Special thanks to Sam Dolnick, Julie Whitaker, Seth Lind, Julia Simon, Nora Keller, Emanuele Berry, Ndeye Thioubou, Alena Cerro and Lauren Jackson."}],"textAlign":"LEFT"}]},"storyFormat":null,"storylines":[{"__typename":"AssociatedStoryline","ruleName":"styln-trump-administration","storyline":{"__typename":"Storyline","context":null,"displayName":"Trump Administration","experimentalJsonBlob":"{\"data\":[{\"version\":1,\"type\":\"experimentalJsonBlob\",\"data\":[{\"version\":1,\"type\":\"guide\",\"data\":{\"title\":\"The Trump Administration’s First 100 Days\",\"leadIn\":\"\",\"sections\":[{\"section\":[{\"type\":\"bulletedList\",\"value\":[\"\u003Cstrong\u003EJD Vance:\u003C\u002Fstrong\u003E A day after the vice president urged German leaders to end their isolation of far-right parties, \u003Ca href=\\\"https:\u002F\u002Fwww.nytimes.com\u002F2025\u002F02\u002F15\u002Fworld\u002Feurope\u002Fscholz-vance-munich-germany.html\\\"\u003EChancellor Olaf Scholz rebuked him\u003C\u002Fa\u003E for supporting a political party that many in the country consider to be \u003Ca href=\\\"https:\u002F\u002Fwww.nytimes.com\u002F2025\u002F02\u002F15\u002Fworld\u002Feurope\u002Fvance-musk-nazis-afd-munich.html\\\"\u003Edangerously descended from Nazism\u003C\u002Fa\u003E.\",\"\u003Cstrong\u003EIn Trump’s Crosshairs:\u003C\u002Fstrong\u003E Through the first month of his administration, President Trump has carried out \u003Ca href=\\\"https:\u002F\u002Fwww.nytimes.com\u002F2025\u002F02\u002F17\u002Fus\u002Fpolitics\u002Ftrump-retribution-list.html\\\"\u003Ea campaign of revenge and retribution\u003C\u002Fa\u003E that has little analogue in American history.\",\"\u003Cstrong\u003EFiring Spree:\u003C\u002Fstrong\u003E The first test of President Trump’s power to fire officials \u003Ca href=\\\"https:\u002F\u002Fwww.nytimes.com\u002F2025\u002F02\u002F16\u002Fus\u002Ftrump-supreme-court-special-counsel.html\\\"\u003Ehas reached the Supreme Court\u003C\u002Fa\u003E. 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This comes after laying off "},{"__typename":"TextInline","formats":[{"__typename":"LinkFormat","uri":"nyt:\u002F\u002Farticle\u002F2ff590df-7257-58db-acdb-847c63426d22","url":"https:\u002F\u002Fwww.nytimes.com\u002F2025\u002F02\u002F15\u002Fclimate\u002Fus-forest-service-layoffs-wildfires.html"}],"text":"forest service workers"},{"__typename":"TextInline","formats":[],"text":" and "},{"__typename":"TextInline","formats":[{"__typename":"LinkFormat","uri":"nyt:\u002F\u002Farticle\u002F78b3d5d5-4299-582c-bbf6-90d5bc5d3c18","url":"https:\u002F\u002Fwww.nytimes.com\u002F2025\u002F02\u002F15\u002Fus\u002Fpolitics\u002Ftrump-administration-continues-immigration-court-crackdown-with-judge-firings.html"}],"text":"judges"},{"__typename":"TextInline","formats":[],"text":", and "},{"__typename":"TextInline","formats":[{"__typename":"LinkFormat","uri":"nyt:\u002F\u002Farticle\u002F5baff2bf-f181-50cc-b39b-0f82bd9dea8d","url":"https:\u002F\u002Fwww.nytimes.com\u002F2025\u002F02\u002F16\u002Fus\u002Fpolitics\u002Ftrump-national-nuclear-security-administration-employees-firings.html"}],"text":"firing (then unfiring) federal employees charged with the readiness of America’s nuclear arsenal"},{"__typename":"TextInline","formats":[],"text":"."}]}]},{"__typename":"ListItemBlock","content":[{"__typename":"ParagraphBlock","content":[{"__typename":"TextInline","formats":[{"__typename":"BoldFormat"}],"text":"Obamacare:"},{"__typename":"TextInline","formats":[],"text":" The administration "},{"__typename":"TextInline","formats":[{"__typename":"LinkFormat","uri":"nyt:\u002F\u002Farticle\u002F06d0e6ac-62c0-578a-b37b-90457e55c15e","url":"https:\u002F\u002Fwww.nytimes.com\u002F2025\u002F02\u002F14\u002Fus\u002Fpolitics\u002Ftrump-obamacare-navigators.html"}],"text":"said it would drastically cut annual spending on so-called navigator groups"},{"__typename":"TextInline","formats":[],"text":" that help Americans enroll in health insurance plans, from around $100 million to just $10 million."}]}]},{"__typename":"ListItemBlock","content":[{"__typename":"ParagraphBlock","content":[{"__typename":"TextInline","formats":[{"__typename":"BoldFormat"}],"text":"Project 2025:"},{"__typename":"TextInline","formats":[],"text":" The Times "},{"__typename":"TextInline","formats":[{"__typename":"LinkFormat","uri":"nyt:\u002F\u002Finteractive\u002Fa19cdbf6-f8f5-5103-9203-e3a5a0a58aa3","url":"https:\u002F\u002Fwww.nytimes.com\u002Finteractive\u002F2025\u002F02\u002F14\u002Fus\u002Fpolitics\u002Fproject-2025-trump-actions.html"}],"text":"found more than 60 major moves made by the administration in its first 23 days"},{"__typename":"TextInline","formats":[],"text":" that align with proposals in the right-wing blueprint for overhauling the government."}]}]},{"__typename":"ListItemBlock","content":[{"__typename":"ParagraphBlock","content":[{"__typename":"TextInline","formats":[{"__typename":"BoldFormat"}],"text":"‘The Boss of Everyone and Everything’: "},{"__typename":"TextInline","formats":[],"text":"President Trump is increasingly trying to enforce his will "},{"__typename":"TextInline","formats":[{"__typename":"LinkFormat","uri":"nyt:\u002F\u002Farticle\u002Fef85b5b6-c1ce-5d66-9292-4b67b40be058","url":"https:\u002F\u002Fwww.nytimes.com\u002F2025\u002F02\u002F13\u002Fus\u002Fpolitics\u002Ftrump-influence.html"}],"text":"on areas like the arts, sports, news, private companies and college 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