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src="//img3.doubanio.com/dae/accounts/resources/851ead1/book/bundle.js" defer="defer"></script> <div id="wrapper" class="book-content review-wrapper"> <div id="content"> <div class="grid-16-8 clearfix"> <div class="article"> <h1> <span property="v:summary">铃木凉美：在自恋和自贬的两极持续摆荡</span> </h1> <div> <div class="main" id="14714159"> <a class="avatar author-avatar left" href="https://www.douban.com/people/52788102/"><img width="48" height="48" src="https://img9.doubanio.com/icon/u52788102-36.jpg"></a> <header class="main-hd"> <a href="https://www.douban.com/people/52788102/"> <span>鬼灯十四郎</span> </a> 评论 <a href="https://book.douban.com/subject/35966120/">始于极限</a> <span class="allstar40 main-title-rating" title="推荐"></span> <span class="main-title-hide">4</span> <div class="main-meta"> <span content="2022-10-19">2022-10-19 10:02:40</span> <span>已编辑</span> <span>中国香港</span> </div> <script type="application/ld+json"> { "@context": "http://schema.org/", "@type": "Review", "datePublished": "2022-10-19T10:02:40", "reviewBody": "期待已久的女性主义书信集《始于极限》终于上线了。难得编辑在这个社交网络主导的时代，想出让两位名人书信交流这么慢条斯理的玩法。铃木凉美曾担任《日经新闻》记者、AV演员，现在是一名撰稿人。她的最新小说《...", "description": "{ review.abstract(200) }", "itemReviewed": { "@type": "Book", "name": "始于极限", "url": "/subject/35966120/", "sameAs": "https://book.douban.com/subject/35966120/", "image": "https://img9.doubanio.com/view/subject/l/public/s34300626.jpg" }, "publisher": { "@type": "Organization", "name": "豆瓣(Douban)" }, "author": { "@type": "Person", "url": "https://www.douban.com/people/52788102/", "name": "鬼灯十四郎", "sameAs": "https://www.douban.com/people/52788102/" }, "reviewRating": { "@type": "Rating", "ratingValue": "4" } } </script> </header> <link rel="stylesheet" href="https://img1.doubanio.com/f/zerkalo/00ff9bf8b07d831cbe53185984b51cdaa428fbf5/css/review/list.css"> <link rel="stylesheet" href="https://img1.doubanio.com/f/zerkalo/c7323fce7e9167c8bdd415abc3acf3b458e83bba/css/review/rich_content.css"> <link rel="stylesheet" href="https://img1.doubanio.com/f/zerkalo/3aeb281ab0e4f2c7050458684acfeb6838441de9/css/review/editor/ng/setting_standalone.css" /> <div class="main-bd" id="review-14714159-content" data-ad-ext="有用105 · 没用1"> <div id="link-report-14714159"> <div class="review-content clearfix" data-author="鬼灯十四郎" data-url="https://book.douban.com/review/14714159/" data-original="1"> <div class="introduction"><p>痛了就喊痛，人的尊严就从这里开始。要对自己诚实，不要欺骗自己。</p></div><p data-align="left">期待已久的女性主义书信集《始于极限》终于上线了。难得编辑在这个社交网络主导的时代，想出让两位名人书信交流这么慢条斯理的玩法。</p><p data-align="left">铃木凉美曾担任《日经新闻》记者、AV演员，现在是一名撰稿人。她的最新小说《资优》入选第167回芥川赏。书信交流对象则是著名女性主义者、社会学家，目前任教于东京大学社会学系的上野千鹤子教授。</p><div class="separator"><hr/></div><h3 data-align="left" id="在自恋与自贬的两极摆荡">在自恋与自贬的两极摆荡</h3><p data-align="left">我满怀期待打开第一封信，但是这种期待很快就落空。</p><p data-align="left">铃木凉美采用繁复的辞藻，引用大量学术概念，堆砌起一封长信，但是总结起来就是想要脱离“被害者”的身份，同时也鄙视那些以“被害者”自居并从中获益的女性。读到这里，我感觉到了强烈的不适，作者似乎想要证明自己跟别人不同，不惜将其他女人一起鄙视。</p><p data-align="left">但是，她对上野又是那样恭敬，字里行间渴望对话。</p><p data-align="left">这种自恋又自卑的态度，流淌在文章的每一个角落，读来令人不舒服。好像一会儿赶你去热烘烘的桑拿房，一会儿又叫你出来参加冰桶挑战。</p><p data-align="left">上野的回信很不客气。有人点评说：“感觉上野不怎么喜欢铃木呢？之前在《从零开始的女性主义》里也是对话体，但是没有这么严厉。” 对此我深表赞同。上野在信中直白地表示，她原本对铃木的毕业论文《“AV女演员”的社会学》很有期待，以为会出现AV从业者当事人视角的新表达。读了之后很失望，没想到作者是以旁观者的视角来写的，和其他研究相比，没有多少学术上的创新。而且指出，自称“受害者”不是软弱的表现，反而是强大的证明。</p><blockquote data-align="left">痛了就喊痛，人的尊严就从这里开始。要对自己诚实，不要欺骗自己。</blockquote><p data-align="left">拒绝承认，也不允许别人承认，实际上是在“恐弱”，这和“恐同”没什么两样。</p><p data-align="left"> 看到回信的铃木受到不小的打击，调整状态写了第二封信。在这里，铃木进入了自贬状态。也许是因为上野是她尊重的教授，曾偶然地用一句话救赎了这个姑娘。在这封信中，铃木有点讨好地回答上野的提问，说了很多关于母亲和自己的事，用的全是贬低的措辞。这些是她不愿意在媒体面前提及的。</p><p data-align="left">我看得特别难过，不由地去想，她在那个看似完美的家庭中，在残酷的AV产业中，究竟经历了怎样的折磨，才会如此熟练地做到自贬和讨好。</p><p data-align="left">上野针对这封信的回复也变得温和许多，时不时宽慰，甚至鲜见地提到自己对性的感受，引导铃木谈这个方面的内容。</p><p data-align="left">但是，铃木的第三封来信又回到的第一封的状态，全篇飘散着一种“我很有思想深度”，既愤世嫉俗又漫不经心的态度。</p><p data-align="left">上野也对此感到失望，再次直白地在回信中表示对方寄来的新书文笔不错，内容毫无新意。并且指出在上一次谈“性”主题，铃木不够坦诚，完全避开了预期的所有问题。</p><p data-align="left"> 经过这次批评，铃木的第四封信又回到了自贬状态，其中有一句话让我心惊。</p><blockquote data-align="left">对买方而言，我是一个方便的厕所，是一个稍微花点小钱就能随意摆布的性对象。</blockquote><p data-align="left">明明知道“厕所”、“R*器”是某些男人意淫女性的蔑称，她为什么要用这样的词描述自己呢？她是不是还处在几种观念的撕扯中？我的情绪又被铃木带走了，很想朝着她大喊：“不要这样说自己啊！” </p><p data-align="left"> </p><div class="separator"><hr/></div><h3 data-align="left" id="挥之不去的男性凝视">挥之不去的男性凝视</h3><p data-align="left">当我以为铃木的情绪摆荡终于结束时，她在第七封信中又发表了令人难以理解的言论。</p><p data-align="left">信中提到，日本有网友抗议某连裤袜品牌的宣传图有性消费的嫌疑，最后品牌方撤下了引发争议的图片。有网友表示：</p><blockquote data-align="left">女性购买这种商品是为了时尚穿搭和保暖，品牌方却把男性会喜欢的性暗示图片放在网上，岂有此理。</blockquote><p data-align="left">对此，铃木表示自己差点下意识地提笔写道：</p><blockquote data-align="left">把连裤袜套在头上搞笑的谐星和撕坏大量连裤袜的男性 AV助理导演，都是厚木的优质客户啊。我不想侵犯他们的抗议自由，但也不想被扣上“前AV女演员为色情图片辩护”的大帽子，所以犹豫了一下。</blockquote><p data-align="left">这句话激怒了许多读者，电子书下面涌现出一片质疑声：这个想法的动机和立场是什么啊？不抖这个机灵就难受吗？能不能反省一下为什么你的第一反应是为男权开脱？女性群体的感受就不是感受了吗？其中网友“我有许多小秘密”的评论尤为一针见血：</p><blockquote data-align="left">其他人抗议发声，让随意性化女性衣物投射男性凝视的现象被严肃化、被重视，你还想着跳出来背刺他人。开玩笑很有意思是吧？女人被随意开玩笑取乐几千年，现在你仗着自己的写作能力，也想跟着开玩笑。上一篇是男人有价值的爱，这一篇是女性的第二性价值不能变，所以也想跟着往火海上浇油。</blockquote><p data-align="left">是啊，为什么一旦出现性别议题，铃木女士总是不由自主地站在男性那一边呢？</p><p data-align="left">她明明说过自己最讨厌自诩“独立女性”却喜欢争取男性认同的母亲。她的做法和她鄙视的母亲之间有什么区别呢？铃木女士，你这是彻彻底底的厌女啊！你其实什么都明白，甚至能用流畅的文笔表达自己的感受，可是你偏要时不时选择闭上眼睛，假装没有看见这些不公和压迫！</p><div class="separator"><hr/></div><h3 data-align="left" id="“被绑架”的精英女性">“被绑架”的精英女性</h3><p data-align="left">这本书读起来太难受了，尤其是铃木凉美的部分。读到一半我不得不合上书，给自己一点时间，等情绪平复后，才继续读完全书。</p><p data-align="left">出身良好，上过名校的铃木凉美显然属于“精英女性”的范畴。对于精英女性，社会上总是成对出现的“自我决定与自我负责”，不允许把选择的代价归咎于任何人。在选择入行AV的时候，似乎同时放弃了成为受害者的权利。</p><p data-align="left">铃木的纠结并不鲜见。在豆瓣和小红书等平台，经常能看到女性剖析自己的内心。很多女性在恋爱中遭受的暴力，想破口大骂但又感到耻辱，认为是自己的选择，应该由自己负责，即便痛苦也不能怪任何人，不能后悔。</p><p data-align="left">我突然理解了上野在<a class="link" href="https://book.douban.com/subject/25836270/" rel="nofollow">《厌女：日本的女性嫌恶》</a>中提到的女性主义究竟意味着什么。女性主义是允许弱者存在的。我们不难发现，当今社会总在向人们传达“世界的残酷”，要求每个人努力成为强者，逼迫拥有七情六欲的人，异化成没有消极情绪的非人。在这样的世界，弱者似乎就应该被鄙视、被消灭。女人因为男权社会根深蒂固的压迫，成为了长期以来的“弱者”，进一步成为被鄙视的对象。</p><div class="subject-container"><div class="subject-wrapper"><a href="https://book.douban.com/subject/25836270/"><div class="subject-cover"><img src="https://img3.doubanio.com/view/subject/l/public/s33797467.jpg"/></div><div class="subject-info"><div class="subject-title"><span class="title-text">厌女</span></div><div class="subject-rating"><span class="rating-star1"></span><span class="rating-star1"></span><span class="rating-star1"></span><span class="rating-star1"></span><span class="rating-star2"></span><span class="rating-score">9.1</span></div><div class="subject-summary">上野千鹤子 / 2015 / 上海三联书店</div></div></a><span data-subject-interest=""></span></div></div><p data-align="left">上野提出的这个“女性主义”的目标，确实很有远见。如果弱者没有资格生存，那么即便有朝一日女性权利翻转，迎接我们的不过是一个性转的男权社会。届时，处于被压迫地位的男性也许会接着写一堆男性主义的作品，寻求崛起。两性之间的斗争将长久地持续下去，人类将全数沦为斗争的工具，失去人作为人最基本的性质。女性千百年来承受的苦痛需要理解和释放，但是如果有一条对大家都好的道路，我们为什么不可以选择呢？</p><p data-align="left">当然，这是最高理想，如果无法实现，女性表达被歧视的愤怒，仅仅寻求自身的权益也完全正当并值得奋斗。</p><p data-align="left">重读上野的回信，我的烦躁少了许多，也突然理解了铃木。</p><p data-align="left">比如，她在第一封信中她在想方设法合理化自己的选择，用精美的学术术语进行包装，用无所谓的冷酷态度来掩饰，因为她很纠结、很痛苦。她说：“AV演员可以退役，但是前AV演员的身份一辈子都会跟着你。” 我忍不住掉下泪来。多少女性在遭受性侵或者性骚扰后，痛苦地在内心咒骂那个男人，但又不敢承认那是性侵/骚扰，不敢跟任何人说出实情。为了活下去，最终选择不断合理化性侵/骚扰，不允许自己后悔和后退。现在看来，那是怎样的一种自我暴力，是举起刀刺向正在流血的自己。</p><p data-align="left"> * 标题中提到，铃木凉美曾从事AV行业，看到她在书中提到“AV演员会退役，但是前AV演员的身份会一辈子跟在身边”，其实很不想在介绍中提到这一点。可是AV身份经历者的身份对于理解这本书而言非常重要，所以还是加在了开头。 </p> </div> <div class="copyright"> © 本文版权归作者  <a href="https://www.douban.com/people/52788102/">鬼灯十四郎</a>  所有，任何形式转载请联系作者。 </div> </div> <div class="main-author"> </div> <div class="main-panel-useful" data-rid="14714159" data-is_owner="false" data-can_vote="true"> <button class="btn 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'comments': [{"is_folded":false,"has_ref":false,"ref_comment":null,"from":["豆瓣App","https:\/\/www.douban.com\/doubanapp\/"],"author":{"kind":1000,"name":"屿瑞","url":"https:\/\/www.douban.com\/people\/hapepeniess\/","gender":"F","abstract":"为内核做的一切事情","avatar":"https://img3.doubanio.com\/icon\/up130318985-53.jpg","signature":"创建情景和精神家园","id":"130318985","uid":"hapepeniess"},"text":"你把我心里的感觉写出来了！！！啊好畅快","total_replies":4,"photos":[],"entities":{"user_mentions":[],"topics":[],"urls":[],"subject_links":[]},"vote_count":0,"create_time":"2022-11-05 11:45:11","reaction_type":0,"replies":[{"is_folded":false,"has_ref":true,"ref_comment":{"is_folded":false,"has_ref":false,"ref_comment":null,"from":["豆瓣App","https:\/\/www.douban.com\/doubanapp\/"],"author":{"kind":1000,"name":"屿瑞","url":"https:\/\/www.douban.com\/people\/hapepeniess\/","gender":"F","abstract":"为内核做的一切事情","avatar":"https://img3.doubanio.com\/icon\/up130318985-53.jpg","signature":"创建情景和精神家园","id":"130318985","uid":"hapepeniess"},"text":"你把我心里的感觉写出来了！！！啊好畅快","total_replies":4,"photos":[],"entities":{"user_mentions":[],"topics":[],"urls":[],"subject_links":[]},"vote_count":0,"create_time":"2022-11-05 11:45:11","reaction_type":0,"replies":[],"ip_location":"湖南","is_deleted":false,"id":"16089534"},"from":["豆瓣App","https:\/\/www.douban.com\/doubanapp\/"],"author":{"kind":1000,"name":"鬼灯十四郎","url":"https:\/\/www.douban.com\/people\/52788102\/","gender":"F","abstract":"晨兴理荒秽，草盛豆苗稀。","avatar":"https://img9.doubanio.com\/icon\/up52788102-36.jpg","signature":"很想要做的事最后都做成啦！","id":"52788102","uid":"52788102"},"text":"对吧！有种往复对话很不顺的感觉。因为书的评分很高，我有点怀疑自己的感觉。","total_replies":0,"photos":[],"entities":{"user_mentions":[],"topics":[],"urls":[],"subject_links":[]},"vote_count":0,"create_time":"2022-11-13 10:20:53","reaction_type":0,"replies":[],"ip_location":"美国","is_deleted":false,"id":"16109121"},{"is_folded":false,"has_ref":true,"ref_comment":{"is_folded":false,"has_ref":true,"ref_comment":null,"from":["豆瓣App","https:\/\/www.douban.com\/doubanapp\/"],"author":{"kind":1000,"name":"鬼灯十四郎","url":"https:\/\/www.douban.com\/people\/52788102\/","gender":"F","abstract":"晨兴理荒秽，草盛豆苗稀。","avatar":"https://img9.doubanio.com\/icon\/up52788102-36.jpg","signature":"很想要做的事最后都做成啦！","id":"52788102","uid":"52788102"},"text":"对吧！有种往复对话很不顺的感觉。因为书的评分很高，我有点怀疑自己的感觉。","total_replies":1,"photos":[],"entities":{"user_mentions":[],"topics":[],"urls":[],"subject_links":[]},"vote_count":0,"create_time":"2022-11-13 10:20:53","reaction_type":0,"replies":[],"ip_location":"美国","is_deleted":false,"id":"16109121"},"from":["豆瓣App","https:\/\/www.douban.com\/doubanapp\/"],"author":{"kind":1000,"name":"屿瑞","url":"https:\/\/www.douban.com\/people\/hapepeniess\/","gender":"F","abstract":"为内核做的一切事情","avatar":"https://img3.doubanio.com\/icon\/up130318985-53.jpg","signature":"创建情景和精神家园","id":"130318985","uid":"hapepeniess"},"text":"对对对我在小组这么说还是有很多人过来质疑我我也有一点自我怀疑了哈哈哈不过正可能是因为这样的形式我们才看到了不一样的东西","total_replies":0,"photos":[],"entities":{"user_mentions":[],"topics":[],"urls":[],"subject_links":[]},"vote_count":0,"create_time":"2022-11-13 10:22:40","reaction_type":0,"replies":[],"ip_location":"湖南","is_deleted":false,"id":"16109123"},{"is_folded":false,"has_ref":true,"ref_comment":{"is_folded":false,"has_ref":true,"ref_comment":null,"from":["豆瓣App","https:\/\/www.douban.com\/doubanapp\/"],"author":{"kind":1000,"name":"屿瑞","url":"https:\/\/www.douban.com\/people\/hapepeniess\/","gender":"F","abstract":"为内核做的一切事情","avatar":"https://img3.doubanio.com\/icon\/up130318985-53.jpg","signature":"创建情景和精神家园","id":"130318985","uid":"hapepeniess"},"text":"对对对我在小组这么说还是有很多人过来质疑我我也有一点自我怀疑了哈哈哈不过正可能是因为这样的形式我们才看到了不一样的东西","total_replies":1,"photos":[],"entities":{"user_mentions":[],"topics":[],"urls":[],"subject_links":[]},"vote_count":0,"create_time":"2022-11-13 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18:11:49","reaction_type":0,"replies":[],"ip_location":"辽宁","is_deleted":false,"id":"17122583"},{"is_folded":false,"has_ref":false,"ref_comment":null,"from":["豆瓣App","https:\/\/www.douban.com\/doubanapp\/"],"author":{"kind":1000,"name":"豆友168773938","url":"https:\/\/www.douban.com\/people\/MOONIH\/","gender":"F","abstract":"","avatar":"https://img3.doubanio.com\/icon\/user_normal_f.jpg","signature":"","id":"168773938","uid":"MOONIH"},"text":"「内容不可见」","total_replies":0,"photos":[],"entities":{"user_mentions":[],"topics":[],"urls":[],"subject_links":[]},"vote_count":0,"create_time":"2023-12-12 02:16:08","reaction_type":0,"replies":[],"ip_location":"浙江","is_deleted":false,"id":"17183726"},{"is_folded":false,"has_ref":false,"ref_comment":null,"from":["豆瓣App","https:\/\/www.douban.com\/doubanapp\/"],"author":{"kind":1000,"name":"野弄飞肆","url":"https:\/\/www.douban.com\/people\/170401236\/","gender":"F","abstract":"me","avatar":"https://img3.doubanio.com\/icon\/up170401236-12.jpg","signature":"","id":"170401236","uid":"170401236"},"text":"我也！！！啊啊啊啊半夜读得我好生气啊！我感觉铃木凉美蠢蠢的，这能说吗。有点傲慢，说媒体消费自己的经历，但她又在每一封心里提到自己拍片的经历。给自己开脱，但我又感觉她依然享受自己什么上夜班的环节。我觉得她脑子有问题，跟全嘻嘻没差，只是没结婚而已。","total_replies":0,"photos":[],"entities":{"user_mentions":[],"topics":[],"urls":[],"subject_links":[]},"vote_count":0,"create_time":"2024-08-17 23:38:41","reaction_type":0,"replies":[],"ip_location":"江苏","is_deleted":false,"id":"17673599"}], 'total': 20, 'start': 0, 'count': 100, 'user': null, 'author': {"intro":"晨兴理荒秽，草盛豆苗稀。","uid":"52788102","is_friend":false,"signature":"很想要做的事最后都做成啦！","url":"https:\/\/www.douban.com\/people\/52788102\/","gender":"F","id":"52788102","avatar":"https://img9.doubanio.com\/icon\/up52788102-36.jpg","name":"鬼灯十四郎"}, 'target': {"is_book_jury_review":false,"kind":1012,"reply_limit":"A","hidden_nonfriend_comments":false,"forbidden_comment_message":"","id":"14714159","can_add_comment":false}, 'options': { 'only_comment_at_the_end_of_pages': false, 'enable_comment_sync_to_status': true, 'can_upload_file': true, 'report_type': 'subject,comment' }, 'needEscape': true } </script> </div> <div class="aside">  <div id="dale_book_review_top_right"></div> <div id="dale_book_review_middle_mini"></div>  <div class="sidebar-info-wrapper"> <div class="sidebar-copy"> </div> <div class="subject-title"> <a href="https://book.douban.com/subject/35966120/">> 始于极限</a> </div> <div class="subject-img"> <a href="https://book.douban.com/subject/35966120/"> <img alt="始于极限" title="始于极限" src="https://img9.doubanio.com/view/subject/l/public/s34300626.jpg" rel="v:image"> </a> </div> <div class="subject-info book-info"> <ul class="info-list"> <li class="info-item"> <span class="info-item-key">作者:</span> <span class="info-item-val">[日] 上野千鹤子 / [日] 铃木凉美</span> </li> <li class="info-item"> <span class="info-item-key">出版:</span> <span class="info-item-val">新星出版社</span> </li> <li class="info-item"> <span class="info-item-key">定价:</span> <span class="info-item-val">59.00元</span> </li> <li class="info-item"> <span class="info-item-key">装帧:</span> <span class="info-item-val">平装</span> </li> <li class="info-item"> <span class="info-item-key">页数:</span> <span class="info-item-val">304</span> </li> <li class="info-item"> <span class="info-item-key">时间:</span> <span class="info-item-val">2022-9-20</span> </li> </ul> </div> </div> </div> <div class="extra"> </div> </div> </div> <div id="footer"> <div class="footer-extra"></div> <span id="icp" class="fleft gray-link"> © 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