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id="toc-Delirium_caused_by_Anticholinergic_medications-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Fake_AI-generated_article?" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1 vector-toc-list-item-expanded"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Fake_AI-generated_article?"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">8</span> <span>Fake AI-generated article?</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">3 comments</span> <ul id="toc-Fake_AI-generated_article?-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Bots_tagging_"outdated"_Cochrane_reviews" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1 vector-toc-list-item-expanded"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Bots_tagging_"outdated"_Cochrane_reviews"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">9</span> <span>Bots tagging "outdated" Cochrane reviews</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">6 comments</span> <ul 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align-items: left; justify-content: space-around; border: 4px solid #0077BE; background: #E7FEFF; width: 99.5%;"> <div style="display:inline-block; flex: 1 1 490px; padding:5px 10px; max-width:800px"> <style data-mw-deduplicate="TemplateStyles:r1252059228">.mw-parser-output .module-shortcutboxplain{float:right;margin:0 0 0 1em;border:1px solid var(--border-color-base,#a2a9b1);background-color:var(--background-color-base,#fff);padding:0.3em 0.6em 0.2em 0.6em;text-align:center;font-size:85%}.mw-parser-output .module-shortcutboxleft{float:left;margin:0 1em 0 0}.mw-parser-output .module-shortcutlist{display:inline-block;border-bottom:1px solid var(--border-color-base,#a2a9b1);margin-bottom:0.2em}.mw-parser-output .module-shortcutboxplain ul{font-weight:bold}.mw-parser-output .module-shortcutanchordiv{position:relative;top:-3em}.mw-parser-output li .module-shortcutanchordiv{float:right}.mw-parser-output .mbox-imageright .module-shortcutboxplain{padding:0.4em 1em 0.4em 1em;line-height:1.3;margin:0}</style><div class="module-shortcutanchordiv"><span id="WT:MED"></span></div><div class="module-shortcutboxplain noprint" role="note"><div class="module-shortcutlist"><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Shortcut" title="Wikipedia:Shortcut">Shortcut</a></div><style data-mw-deduplicate="TemplateStyles:r1126788409">.mw-parser-output .plainlist ol,.mw-parser-output .plainlist ul{line-height:inherit;list-style:none;margin:0;padding:0}.mw-parser-output .plainlist ol li,.mw-parser-output .plainlist ul li{margin-bottom:0}</style><div class="plainlist"><ul><li><span class="plainlinks"><a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia_talk:MED&redirect=no">WT:MED</a></span></li></ul></div></div> <p><b>Welcome to the WikiProject Medicine talk page</b>. If you have comments or believe something can be improved, feel free to post. Also feel free to introduce yourself if you plan on becoming an active editor! </p><p>We do not provide <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Medical_disclaimer" title="Wikipedia:Medical disclaimer">medical advice</a>; please see a health professional. </p> <ul><li>Unsure about something? Make sure to look at our <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:MEDMOS" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:MEDMOS">style</a> and <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:MEDRS" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:MEDRS">source</a> guidelines.</li> <li><a href="/wiki/Caps_lock" class="mw-redirect" title="Caps lock">Please don't shout</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Civility" title="Wikipedia:Civility">remain civil</a>, be respectful to all, and <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Assume_good_faith" title="Wikipedia:Assume good faith">assume good faith</a>.</li> <li>Put new text under old text. <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine&action=edit&section=new">Click here to start a new topic</a>.</li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Signatures" title="Wikipedia:Signatures">Please sign and date your posts</a> by typing four tildes (<code>~~~~</code>).</li> <li>Threads older than 30 days are automatically archived.</li> <li>Please see <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Medicine/Newsletter/Mailing_list" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Medicine/Newsletter/Mailing list">Wikipedia:WikiProject_Medicine/Newsletter/Mailing_list</a></li></ul> </div> <table class="mw-collapsible mw-collapsed" style="background: transparent; text-align: left; margin: 0.2em auto auto; width:50%; clear:both ; padding: 1px;"> <tbody><tr> <th style="background:#4682B4; color:white; padding:0.2em 0.3em; text-align:center; width:80%;">List of archives </th> <td> </td></tr> <tr> <td style="border: solid 1px transparent; padding: 8p; background: white;"> <ul><li>Merged Archive WikiProject Preclinical medicine: <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Preclinical_Medicine/Archive_1" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Preclinical Medicine/Archive 1">1</a></li> <li>Merged Archive WikiProject Clinical medicine: <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Clinical_medicine/Archive_1" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Clinical medicine/Archive 1">1</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Clinical_medicine/Archive_2" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Clinical medicine/Archive 2">2</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Clinical_medicine/Archive_3" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Clinical medicine/Archive 3">3</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Clinical_medicine/Archive_4" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Clinical medicine/Archive 4">4</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Clinical_medicine/Archive_5" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Clinical medicine/Archive 5">5</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Clinical_medicine/Archive_6" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Clinical medicine/Archive 6">6</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Clinical_medicine/Archive_7" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Clinical medicine/Archive 7">7</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Clinical_medicine/Archive_8" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Clinical medicine/Archive 8">8</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Clinical_medicine/Archive_9" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Clinical medicine/Archive 9">9</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Clinical_medicine/Archive_10" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Clinical medicine/Archive 10">10</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Clinical_medicine/Archive_11" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Clinical medicine/Archive 11">11</a></li> <li>WikiProject Medicine <a href="/wiki/Help:Archiving_a_talk_page" title="Help:Archiving a talk page">Archives</a>: <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_index" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Medicine/Archive index">Index</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_1" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Medicine/Archive 1">1</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_2" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Medicine/Archive 2">2</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_3" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Medicine/Archive 3">3</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_4" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Medicine/Archive 4">4</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_5" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Medicine/Archive 5">5</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_6" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Medicine/Archive 6">6</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_7" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Medicine/Archive 7">7</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_8" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Medicine/Archive 8">8</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_9" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Medicine/Archive 9">9</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_10" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Medicine/Archive 10">10</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_11" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Medicine/Archive 11">11</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_12" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Medicine/Archive 12">12</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_13" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Medicine/Archive 13">13</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_14" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Medicine/Archive 14">14</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_15" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Medicine/Archive 15">15</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_16" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Medicine/Archive 16">16</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_17" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Medicine/Archive 17">17</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_18" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Medicine/Archive 18">18</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_19" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Medicine/Archive 19">19</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_20" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Medicine/Archive 20">20</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_21" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Medicine/Archive 21">21</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_22" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Medicine/Archive 22">22</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_23" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Medicine/Archive 23">23</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_24" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Medicine/Archive 24">24</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_25" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Medicine/Archive 25">25</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_26" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Medicine/Archive 26">26</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_27" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Medicine/Archive 27">27</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_28" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Medicine/Archive 28">28</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_29" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Medicine/Archive 29">29</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_30" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Medicine/Archive 30">30</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_31" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Medicine/Archive 31">31</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_32" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Medicine/Archive 32">32</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_33" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Medicine/Archive 33">33</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_34" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Medicine/Archive 34">34</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_35" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Medicine/Archive 35">35</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_36" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Medicine/Archive 36">36</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_37" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Medicine/Archive 37">37</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_38" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Medicine/Archive 38">38</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_39" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Medicine/Archive 39">39</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_40" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Medicine/Archive 40">40</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_41" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Medicine/Archive 41">41</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_42" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Medicine/Archive 42">42</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_43" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Medicine/Archive 43">43</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_44" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Medicine/Archive 44">44</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_45" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Medicine/Archive 45">45</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_46" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Medicine/Archive 46">46</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_47" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Medicine/Archive 47">47</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_48" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Medicine/Archive 48">48</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_49" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Medicine/Archive 49">49</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_50" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Medicine/Archive 50">50</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_51" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Medicine/Archive 51">51</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_52" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Medicine/Archive 52">52</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_53" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Medicine/Archive 53">53</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_54" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Medicine/Archive 54">54</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_55" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Medicine/Archive 55">55</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_56" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Medicine/Archive 56">56</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_57" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Medicine/Archive 57">57</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_58" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Medicine/Archive 58">58</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_59" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Medicine/Archive 59">59</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_60" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Medicine/Archive 60">60</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_61" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Medicine/Archive 61">61</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_62" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Medicine/Archive 62">62</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_63" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Medicine/Archive 63">63</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_64" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Medicine/Archive 64">64</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_65" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Medicine/Archive 65">65</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_66" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Medicine/Archive 66">66</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_67" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Medicine/Archive 67">67</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_68" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Medicine/Archive 68">68</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_69" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Medicine/Archive 69">69</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_70" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Medicine/Archive 70">70</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_71" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Medicine/Archive 71">71</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_72" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Medicine/Archive 72">72</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_73" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Medicine/Archive 73">73</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_74" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Medicine/Archive 74">74</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_75" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Medicine/Archive 75">75</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_76" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Medicine/Archive 76">76</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_77" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Medicine/Archive 77">77</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_78" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Medicine/Archive 78">78</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_79" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Medicine/Archive 79">79</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_80" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Medicine/Archive 80">80</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_81" title="Wikipedia 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title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Medicine/Archive 89">89</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_90" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Medicine/Archive 90">90</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_91" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Medicine/Archive 91">91</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_92" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Medicine/Archive 92">92</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_93" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Medicine/Archive 93">93</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_94" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Medicine/Archive 94">94</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_95" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Medicine/Archive 95">95</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_96" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Medicine/Archive 96">96</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_97" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Medicine/Archive 97">97</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_98" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Medicine/Archive 98">98</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_99" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Medicine/Archive 99">99</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_100" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Medicine/Archive 100">100</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_101" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Medicine/Archive 101">101</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_102" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Medicine/Archive 102">102</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_103" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Medicine/Archive 103">103</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_104" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Medicine/Archive 104">104</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_105" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Medicine/Archive 105">105</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_106" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Medicine/Archive 106">106</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_107" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Medicine/Archive 107">107</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_108" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Medicine/Archive 108">108</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_109" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Medicine/Archive 109">109</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_110" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Medicine/Archive 110">110</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_111" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Medicine/Archive 111">111</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_112" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Medicine/Archive 112">112</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_113" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Medicine/Archive 113">113</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_114" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Medicine/Archive 114">114</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_115" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Medicine/Archive 115">115</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_116" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Medicine/Archive 116">116</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_117" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Medicine/Archive 117">117</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_118" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Medicine/Archive 118">118</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_119" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Medicine/Archive 119">119</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_120" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Medicine/Archive 120">120</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_121" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Medicine/Archive 121">121</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_122" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Medicine/Archive 122">122</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_123" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Medicine/Archive 123">123</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_124" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Medicine/Archive 124">124</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_125" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Medicine/Archive 125">125</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_126" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Medicine/Archive 126">126</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_127" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject 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title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Medicine/Archive 135">135</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_136" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Medicine/Archive 136">136</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_137" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Medicine/Archive 137">137</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_138" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Medicine/Archive 138">138</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_139" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Medicine/Archive 139">139</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_140" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Medicine/Archive 140">140</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_141" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Medicine/Archive 141">141</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_142" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Medicine/Archive 142">142</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_143" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Medicine/Archive 143">143</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_144" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Medicine/Archive 144">144</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_145" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Medicine/Archive 145">145</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_146" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Medicine/Archive 146">146</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_147" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Medicine/Archive 147">147</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_148" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Medicine/Archive 148">148</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_149" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Medicine/Archive 149">149</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_150" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Medicine/Archive 150">150</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_151" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Medicine/Archive 151">151</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_152" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Medicine/Archive 152">152</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_153" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Medicine/Archive 153">153</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_154" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Medicine/Archive 154">154</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_155" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Medicine/Archive 155">155</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_156" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Medicine/Archive 156">156</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_157" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Medicine/Archive 157">157</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_158" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Medicine/Archive 158">158</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_159" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Medicine/Archive 159">159</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_160" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Medicine/Archive 160">160</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_161" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Medicine/Archive 161">161</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_162" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Medicine/Archive 162">162</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_163" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Medicine/Archive 163">163</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_164" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Medicine/Archive 164">164</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_165" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Medicine/Archive 165">165</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_166" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Medicine/Archive 166">166</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_167" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Medicine/Archive 167">167</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_168" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Medicine/Archive 168">168</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_169" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Medicine/Archive 169">169</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_170" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Medicine/Archive 170">170</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_171" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Medicine/Archive 171">171</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_172" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Medicine/Archive 172">172</a></li></ul> </td></tr></tbody></table> <div class="mw-inputbox-centered" style=""><form 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.hidden-title{font-weight:bold;line-height:1.6;text-align:left}.mw-parser-output .hidden-content{text-align:left}@media all and (max-width:500px){.mw-parser-output .hidden-begin{width:auto!important;clear:none!important;float:none!important}}</style><div class="hidden-begin mw-collapsible mw-collapsed" style=""><div class="hidden-title skin-nightmode-reset-color" style="">This page has been <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Press_coverage" title="Wikipedia:Press coverage">mentioned by a media organization</a>:</div><div class="hidden-content mw-collapsible-content" style=""> <ul><li><style data-mw-deduplicate="TemplateStyles:r1238218222">.mw-parser-output cite.citation{font-style:inherit;word-wrap:break-word}.mw-parser-output .citation q{quotes:"\"""\"""'""'"}.mw-parser-output .citation:target{background-color:rgba(0,127,255,0.133)}.mw-parser-output .id-lock-free.id-lock-free a{background:url("//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/65/Lock-green.svg")right 0.1em center/9px no-repeat}.mw-parser-output .id-lock-limited.id-lock-limited a,.mw-parser-output .id-lock-registration.id-lock-registration a{background:url("//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d6/Lock-gray-alt-2.svg")right 0.1em center/9px no-repeat}.mw-parser-output .id-lock-subscription.id-lock-subscription a{background:url("//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/aa/Lock-red-alt-2.svg")right 0.1em center/9px no-repeat}.mw-parser-output .cs1-ws-icon a{background:url("//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4c/Wikisource-logo.svg")right 0.1em center/12px no-repeat}body:not(.skin-timeless):not(.skin-minerva) .mw-parser-output .id-lock-free a,body:not(.skin-timeless):not(.skin-minerva) .mw-parser-output .id-lock-limited a,body:not(.skin-timeless):not(.skin-minerva) .mw-parser-output .id-lock-registration a,body:not(.skin-timeless):not(.skin-minerva) .mw-parser-output .id-lock-subscription a,body:not(.skin-timeless):not(.skin-minerva) .mw-parser-output .cs1-ws-icon a{background-size:contain;padding:0 1em 0 0}.mw-parser-output .cs1-code{color:inherit;background:inherit;border:none;padding:inherit}.mw-parser-output .cs1-hidden-error{display:none;color:var(--color-error,#d33)}.mw-parser-output .cs1-visible-error{color:var(--color-error,#d33)}.mw-parser-output .cs1-maint{display:none;color:#085;margin-left:0.3em}.mw-parser-output .cs1-kern-left{padding-left:0.2em}.mw-parser-output .cs1-kern-right{padding-right:0.2em}.mw-parser-output .citation .mw-selflink{font-weight:inherit}@media screen{.mw-parser-output .cs1-format{font-size:95%}html.skin-theme-clientpref-night .mw-parser-output .cs1-maint{color:#18911f}}@media screen and (prefers-color-scheme:dark){html.skin-theme-clientpref-os .mw-parser-output .cs1-maint{color:#18911f}}</style><cite class="citation news cs1">Sarah Shamim, Dwayne Oxford (June 14, 2024). <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2024/6/14/wikipedia-war-fierce-row-erupts-over-israels-deadly-nuseirat-assault">"Wikipedia war: Fierce row erupts over Israel's deadly Nuseirat assault"</a>. <a href="/wiki/Al_Jazeera_English" title="Al Jazeera English">Al Jazeera English</a><span class="reference-accessdate">. Retrieved <span class="nowrap">June 14,</span> 2024</span>. <q>Wikipedia was able to address the issue of misinformation about the virus spreading on its platform, however, with projects like Wiki Project Medicine, a community of doctors and scientists,working to correct wrong information.</q></cite><span title="ctx_ver=Z39.88-2004&rft_val_fmt=info%3Aofi%2Ffmt%3Akev%3Amtx%3Ajournal&rft.genre=article&rft.atitle=Wikipedia+war%3A+Fierce+row+erupts+over+Israel%E2%80%99s+deadly+Nuseirat+assault&rft.date=2024-06-14&rft.au=Sarah+Shamim%2C+Dwayne+Oxford&rft_id=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.aljazeera.com%2Fnews%2F2024%2F6%2F14%2Fwikipedia-war-fierce-row-erupts-over-israels-deadly-nuseirat-assault&rfr_id=info%3Asid%2Fen.wikipedia.org%3AWikipedia+talk%3AWikiProject+Medicine" class="Z3988"></span></li></ul> </div></div></td></tr></tbody></table> <meta property="mw:PageProp/toc"/> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Marburg_outbreak" data-mw-thread-id="h-Marburg_outbreak-20240929133200"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Marburg_outbreak-20240929133200"></span>Marburg outbreak<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Marburg_outbreak-20240929133200"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine&action=edit&section=1" title="Edit section: Marburg outbreak"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Ozzie10aaaa-20240929133200-Marburg_outbreak"></span>have started <a href="/wiki/Rwanda_Marburg_disease_outbreak" class="mw-redirect" title="Rwanda Marburg disease outbreak">Rwanda Marburg disease outbreak</a> , it should be noted this is the first time this occurs in Rwanda (and in recent years in other countries) please feel free to add/delete, thank you--<a href="/wiki/User:Ozzie10aaaa" title="User:Ozzie10aaaa">Ozzie10aaaa</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Ozzie10aaaa" title="User talk:Ozzie10aaaa">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine#c-Ozzie10aaaa-20240929133200-Marburg_outbreak" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">13:32, 29 September 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Ozzie10aaaa-20240929133200-Marburg_outbreak"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Ozzie10aaaa-20240929133200-Marburg_outbreak"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-HLHJ-20241003025600-Ozzie10aaaa-20240929133200"></span>Added stuff on the socioeconomic/legal reasons that we don't have a vaccine in production yet. See also <a href="/wiki/Economics_of_vaccines" title="Economics of vaccines">economics of vaccines</a>.</dd></dl> <dl><dd>I should like to see an analysis of whether the existence of legal monopolies in the biomedical field is a net benefit to taxpayers, because it clearly has enormous negative externalities. This is doubly important because, outside the chemical and pharma sector, patents seem not to be a net benefit <i>even to their owners</i> (in the US, as of 2008;<sup id="cite_ref-1" class="reference"><a href="#cite_note-1"><span class="cite-bracket">[</span>1<span class="cite-bracket">]</span></a></sup> from <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Archives/Science/2021_January_26#How_not_to_patent_does_help_in_further_the_advancement_of_science?" title="Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Science/2021 January 26">a Refdesk query</a>). So the onus is rather on patents to show that they should exist. <a href="/wiki/User:HLHJ" title="User:HLHJ">HLHJ</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:HLHJ" title="User talk:HLHJ">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine#c-HLHJ-20241003025600-Ozzie10aaaa-20240929133200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:56, 3 October 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-HLHJ-20241003025600-Ozzie10aaaa-20240929133200"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-HLHJ-20241003025600-Ozzie10aaaa-20240929133200"></span></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Noxoug1-20241031080600-Ozzie10aaaa-20240929133200"></span>I will also add some material, thanks for starting it <a href="/wiki/User:Noxoug1" title="User:Noxoug1">Noxoug1</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Noxoug1" title="User talk:Noxoug1">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine#c-Noxoug1-20241031080600-Ozzie10aaaa-20240929133200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">08:06, 31 October 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Noxoug1-20241031080600-Ozzie10aaaa-20240929133200"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Noxoug1-20241031080600-Ozzie10aaaa-20240929133200"></span></dd></dl> <span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-HLHJ-20241003040000-Marburg_outbreak"></span><style data-mw-deduplicate="TemplateStyles:r1232521257">.mw-parser-output .reflist-talk{margin:auto 0;border:1px dashed var(--border-color-base,#a2a9b1);padding:4px;padding-left:1em}.mw-parser-output .reflist-talk-title{font-weight:bold}</style><div class="reflist-talk"> <p class="reflist-talk-title">References</p> <style data-mw-deduplicate="TemplateStyles:r1239543626">.mw-parser-output .reflist{margin-bottom:0.5em;list-style-type:decimal}@media screen{.mw-parser-output .reflist{font-size:90%}}.mw-parser-output .reflist .references{font-size:100%;margin-bottom:0;list-style-type:inherit}.mw-parser-output .reflist-columns-2{column-width:30em}.mw-parser-output .reflist-columns-3{column-width:25em}.mw-parser-output .reflist-columns{margin-top:0.3em}.mw-parser-output .reflist-columns ol{margin-top:0}.mw-parser-output .reflist-columns li{page-break-inside:avoid;break-inside:avoid-column}.mw-parser-output .reflist-upper-alpha{list-style-type:upper-alpha}.mw-parser-output .reflist-upper-roman{list-style-type:upper-roman}.mw-parser-output .reflist-lower-alpha{list-style-type:lower-alpha}.mw-parser-output .reflist-lower-greek{list-style-type:lower-greek}.mw-parser-output .reflist-lower-roman{list-style-type:lower-roman}</style><div class="reflist"> <div class="mw-references-wrap"><ol class="references"> <li id="cite_note-1"><span class="mw-cite-backlink"><b><a href="#cite_ref-1">^</a></b></span> <span class="reference-text"><link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1238218222"><cite id="CITEREFBessenMeurer2008" class="citation book cs1">Bessen, James; Meurer, Michael J. (2008). "1". <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="http://www.researchoninnovation.org/dopatentswork/"><i>Patent failure : how judges, bureaucrats, and lawyers put innovators at risk</i></a>. Princeton: Princeton University Press. <a href="/wiki/ISBN_(identifier)" class="mw-redirect" title="ISBN (identifier)">ISBN</a> <a href="/wiki/Special:BookSources/9780691143217" title="Special:BookSources/9780691143217"><bdi>9780691143217</bdi></a><span class="reference-accessdate">. Retrieved <span class="nowrap">28 January</span> 2021</span>.</cite><span title="ctx_ver=Z39.88-2004&rft_val_fmt=info%3Aofi%2Ffmt%3Akev%3Amtx%3Abook&rft.genre=bookitem&rft.atitle=1&rft.btitle=Patent+failure+%3A+how+judges%2C+bureaucrats%2C+and+lawyers+put+innovators+at+risk&rft.place=Princeton&rft.pub=Princeton+University+Press&rft.date=2008&rft.isbn=9780691143217&rft.aulast=Bessen&rft.aufirst=James&rft.au=Meurer%2C+Michael+J.&rft_id=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.researchoninnovation.org%2Fdopatentswork%2F&rfr_id=info%3Asid%2Fen.wikipedia.org%3AWikipedia+talk%3AWikiProject+Medicine" class="Z3988"></span> (from fulltext of chapter one available at URL as a free sample)}}</span> </li> </ol></div></div> </div> <dl><dd>Also started <a href="/wiki/Marburg_vaccine" title="Marburg vaccine">Marburg vaccine</a>, just by copy-pasting from existing articles, because we have <a href="/wiki/Ebola_vaccine" title="Ebola vaccine">Ebola vaccine</a> and did before one was in production, and because organizationally, a central place for that information would be good. <a href="/wiki/User:HLHJ" title="User:HLHJ">HLHJ</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:HLHJ" title="User talk:HLHJ">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine#c-HLHJ-20241003040000-Marburg_outbreak" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">04:00, 3 October 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-HLHJ-20241003040000-Marburg_outbreak"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-HLHJ-20241003040000-Marburg_outbreak"></span></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="DMOZ_and_Curlie_in_External_links" data-mw-thread-id="h-DMOZ_and_Curlie_in_External_links-20241020070000"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-DMOZ_and_Curlie_in_External_links-20241020070000"></span>DMOZ and Curlie in External links<span data-mw-comment-end="h-DMOZ_and_Curlie_in_External_links-20241020070000"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine&action=edit&section=2" title="Edit section: DMOZ and Curlie in External links"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-WhatamIdoing-20241020070000-DMOZ_and_Curlie_in_External_links"></span>For a long while, this group has encouraged people to add a link to a <a href="/wiki/DMOZ" title="DMOZ">DMOZ</a> or its successor, <a href="/wiki/Curlie" class="mw-redirect" title="Curlie">Curlie</a>. The advantage is that having a link to a <a href="/wiki/Web_directory" title="Web directory">Web directory</a> means we had less on-wiki maintenance to do and could redirect any spammy promoters to those websites. However, the nearly moribund Curlie has finally shut down, and after a <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:TFD" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:TFD">WP:TFD</a> discussion, all of these links are being removed by bot. </p><p>If you want to add <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:External_links" title="Wikipedia:External links">Wikipedia:External links</a> to an article, please consider a web directory. You should pick the best site you can find, even if it's not an "official" webpage in any way. Alternatively, pick a small number of websites that <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:ELNO#EL1" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:ELNO">do not substitute for article content</a>. Finally, if you decide that the best result for that article is no links, then consider moving any bulky sister link templates up into the top of the previous section (whatever that is), and then remove the ==External links== section heading. <a href="/wiki/User:WhatamIdoing" title="User:WhatamIdoing">WhatamIdoing</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:WhatamIdoing" title="User talk:WhatamIdoing">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine#c-WhatamIdoing-20241020070000-DMOZ_and_Curlie_in_External_links" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">07:00, 20 October 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-WhatamIdoing-20241020070000-DMOZ_and_Curlie_in_External_links"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-WhatamIdoing-20241020070000-DMOZ_and_Curlie_in_External_links"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Ajpolino-20241025174000-WhatamIdoing-20241020070000"></span>Thank you for the update WAID. Any chance someone who isn't afraid of template syntax could remove Curlie support from <span class="nowrap">{{</span><a href="/wiki/Template:Medical_resources" title="Template:Medical resources">Medical resources</a><span class="nowrap">}}</span>? It's <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Template_protection" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:Template protection">template protected</a> so you'll need to be a <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Template_editor" title="Wikipedia:Template editor">template editor</a> or administrator (or setup an edit request, which should be fairly straightforward; I can sort the latter out, I just thought it might be smoother coming from someone who understands templates).</dd> <dd>I <i>think</i> that's the only change needed in our guidance docs. I removed the Curlie recommendation at MEDMOS relatively recently. <a href="/wiki/User:Ajpolino" title="User:Ajpolino">Ajpolino</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Ajpolino" title="User talk:Ajpolino">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine#c-Ajpolino-20241025174000-WhatamIdoing-20241020070000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:40, 25 October 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Ajpolino-20241025174000-WhatamIdoing-20241020070000"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Ajpolino-20241025174000-WhatamIdoing-20241020070000"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-WhatamIdoing-20241025180000-Ajpolino-20241025174000"></span>It looks like it'll be pretty easy to strip out. I've posted an edit request with the necessary details, as best as I can make out. <a href="/wiki/User:WhatamIdoing" title="User:WhatamIdoing">WhatamIdoing</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:WhatamIdoing" title="User talk:WhatamIdoing">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine#c-WhatamIdoing-20241025180000-Ajpolino-20241025174000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:00, 25 October 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-WhatamIdoing-20241025180000-Ajpolino-20241025174000"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-WhatamIdoing-20241025180000-Ajpolino-20241025174000"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Ajpolino-20241025182500-WhatamIdoing-20241025180000"></span>Thank you, that did make it look easy! <a href="/wiki/User:Ajpolino" title="User:Ajpolino">Ajpolino</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Ajpolino" title="User talk:Ajpolino">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine#c-Ajpolino-20241025182500-WhatamIdoing-20241025180000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:25, 25 October 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Ajpolino-20241025182500-WhatamIdoing-20241025180000"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Ajpolino-20241025182500-WhatamIdoing-20241025180000"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Request_for_Help:_Expanding_Psychological_and_Neurodevelopmental_Disorders_Section_in_NF1_Article" data-mw-thread-id="h-Request_for_Help:_Expanding_Psychological_and_Neurodevelopmental_Disorders_Secti-20241020212900"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Request_for_Help:_Expanding_Psychological_and_Neurodevelopmental_Disorders_Secti-20241020212900"></span>Request for Help: Expanding Psychological and Neurodevelopmental Disorders Section in NF1 Article<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Request_for_Help:_Expanding_Psychological_and_Neurodevelopmental_Disorders_Secti-20241020212900"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine&action=edit&section=3" title="Edit section: Request for Help: Expanding Psychological and Neurodevelopmental Disorders Section in NF1 Article"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Fechu93-20241020212900-Request_for_Help:_Expanding_Psychological_and_Neurodevelopmental_Disorders_Secti"></span>Hello everyone, </p><p>I am currently working on improving the <a href="/wiki/Neurofibromatosis_type_I#Psychological_and_Neurodevelopmental_Disorders" title="Neurofibromatosis type I">Psychological and Neurodevelopmental Disorders section of the Neurofibromatosis Type 1 (NF1) </a> article. Specifically, I need assistance with finding reliable resources and expanding the content related to Autism Spectrum Disorder (ASD) and Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder (ADHD) in NF1. </p><p>Both ASD and ADHD are highly prevalent in individuals with NF1, and they often exhibit distinct characteristics compared to idiopathic forms. I believe that enhancing this section will be especially useful for parents of affected children, as it could provide valuable insights into these unique challenges. </p><p>If anyone has access to relevant studies or publications, or if you have experience with this subject, I would greatly appreciate your guidance in improving this section. </p><p>I have found articles about ADHD in NF1, such as the one by Lion-François et al. (2020), which discusses the differences between ADHD and the syndromic ADHD in NF1. Honestly, I feel like this topic is a bit beyond my understanding, and I don't want to make mistakes when editing the article. If anyone has a good grasp of this issue, I would greatly appreciate your collaboration. </p><p>Thank you in advance for your support! <small class="autosigned">— Preceding <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Signatures" title="Wikipedia:Signatures">unsigned</a> comment added by <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Fechu93&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Fechu93 (page does not exist)">Fechu93</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Fechu93#top" title="User talk:Fechu93">talk</a> • <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Fechu93" title="Special:Contributions/Fechu93">contribs</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine#c-Fechu93-20241020212900-Request_for_Help:_Expanding_Psychological_and_Neurodevelopmental_Disorders_Secti" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:29, 20 October 2024 (UTC)</a></small><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Fechu93-20241020212900-Request_for_Help:_Expanding_Psychological_and_Neurodevelopmental_Disorders_Secti"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Fechu93-20241020212900-Request_for_Help:_Expanding_Psychological_and_Neurodevelopmental_Disorders_Secti"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Ozzie10aaaa-20241103131000-Fechu93-20241020212900"></span>maybe this...<link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1238218222"><cite id="CITEREFWalshVélezKardelImas2013" class="citation journal cs1">Walsh, Karin S.; Vélez, Jorge I.; Kardel, Peter G.; Imas, Daniel M.; Muenke, Maximilian; Packer, Roger J.; Castellanos, Francisco X.; Acosta, Maria T. (February 2013). <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/23163951/">"Symptomatology of autism spectrum disorder in a population with neurofibromatosis type 1"</a>. <i>Developmental Medicine and Child Neurology</i>. <b>55</b> (2): 131–138. <a href="/wiki/Doi_(identifier)" class="mw-redirect" title="Doi (identifier)">doi</a>:<a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://doi.org/10.1111%2Fdmcn.12038">10.1111/dmcn.12038</a>. <a href="/wiki/ISSN_(identifier)" class="mw-redirect" title="ISSN (identifier)">ISSN</a> <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://search.worldcat.org/issn/1469-8749">1469-8749</a><span class="reference-accessdate">. Retrieved <span class="nowrap">3 November</span> 2024</span>.</cite><span title="ctx_ver=Z39.88-2004&rft_val_fmt=info%3Aofi%2Ffmt%3Akev%3Amtx%3Ajournal&rft.genre=article&rft.jtitle=Developmental+Medicine+and+Child+Neurology&rft.atitle=Symptomatology+of+autism+spectrum+disorder+in+a+population+with+neurofibromatosis+type+1&rft.volume=55&rft.issue=2&rft.pages=131-138&rft.date=2013-02&rft_id=info%3Adoi%2F10.1111%2Fdmcn.12038&rft.issn=1469-8749&rft.aulast=Walsh&rft.aufirst=Karin+S.&rft.au=V%C3%A9lez%2C+Jorge+I.&rft.au=Kardel%2C+Peter+G.&rft.au=Imas%2C+Daniel+M.&rft.au=Muenke%2C+Maximilian&rft.au=Packer%2C+Roger+J.&rft.au=Castellanos%2C+Francisco+X.&rft.au=Acosta%2C+Maria+T.&rft_id=https%3A%2F%2Fpubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov%2F23163951%2F&rfr_id=info%3Asid%2Fen.wikipedia.org%3AWikipedia+talk%3AWikiProject+Medicine" class="Z3988"></span>--<a href="/wiki/User:Ozzie10aaaa" title="User:Ozzie10aaaa">Ozzie10aaaa</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Ozzie10aaaa" title="User talk:Ozzie10aaaa">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine#c-Ozzie10aaaa-20241103131000-Fechu93-20241020212900" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">13:10, 3 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Ozzie10aaaa-20241103131000-Fechu93-20241020212900"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Ozzie10aaaa-20241103131000-Fechu93-20241020212900"></span></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="EviCore" data-mw-thread-id="h-EviCore-20241025224700"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-EviCore-20241025224700"></span><a href="/wiki/EviCore" title="EviCore">EviCore</a><span data-mw-comment-end="h-EviCore-20241025224700"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine&action=edit&section=4" title="Edit section: EviCore"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Thriley-20241025224700-EviCore"></span>I recently created a stub for <a href="/wiki/EviCore" title="EviCore">EviCore</a>, a medical benefits management company. The company is the subject of a recent article by <a href="/wiki/ProPublica" title="ProPublica">ProPublica</a> titled <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://www.propublica.org/article/evicore-health-insurance-denials-cigna-unitedhealthcare-aetna-prior-authorizations">“Not Medically Necessary”: Inside the Company Helping America’s Biggest Health Insurers Deny Coverage for Care</a>. It may be of interest to members of this project. <a href="/wiki/User:Thriley" title="User:Thriley">Thriley</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Thriley" title="User talk:Thriley">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine#c-Thriley-20241025224700-EviCore" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:47, 25 October 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Thriley-20241025224700-EviCore"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Thriley-20241025224700-EviCore"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Ozzie10aaaa-20241028013100-Thriley-20241025224700"></span>interesting article, thanks--<a href="/wiki/User:Ozzie10aaaa" title="User:Ozzie10aaaa">Ozzie10aaaa</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Ozzie10aaaa" title="User talk:Ozzie10aaaa">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine#c-Ozzie10aaaa-20241028013100-Thriley-20241025224700" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:31, 28 October 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Ozzie10aaaa-20241028013100-Thriley-20241025224700"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Ozzie10aaaa-20241028013100-Thriley-20241025224700"></span></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Peer_review_request_for_Crohn's_disease" data-mw-thread-id="h-Peer_review_request_for_Crohn's_disease-20241027132500"><span id="Peer_review_request_for_Crohn.27s_disease"></span><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Peer_review_request_for_Crohn's_disease-20241027132500"></span><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Peer_review" title="Wikipedia:Peer review">Peer review</a> request for <a href="/wiki/Crohn%27s_disease" title="Crohn's disease">Crohn's disease</a><span data-mw-comment-end="h-Peer_review_request_for_Crohn's_disease-20241027132500"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine&action=edit&section=5" title="Edit section: Peer review request for Crohn's disease"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Ajpolino-20241027132500-Peer_review_request_for_Crohn's_disease"></span>Hi all, <a href="/wiki/User:AdeptLearner123" title="User:AdeptLearner123">AdeptLearner123</a> is requesting feedback on <a href="/wiki/Crohn%27s_disease" title="Crohn's disease">Crohn's disease</a> at <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Peer_review/Crohn%27s_disease/archive2" title="Wikipedia:Peer review/Crohn's disease/archive2">Wikipedia:Peer review/Crohn's disease/archive2</a>. Please have a look to help with their efforts to improve the article. <a href="/wiki/User:Ajpolino" title="User:Ajpolino">Ajpolino</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Ajpolino" title="User talk:Ajpolino">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine#c-Ajpolino-20241027132500-Peer_review_request_for_Crohn's_disease" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">13:25, 27 October 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Ajpolino-20241027132500-Peer_review_request_for_Crohn's_disease"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Ajpolino-20241027132500-Peer_review_request_for_Crohn's_disease"></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="DOIs_vs_PMIDs" data-mw-thread-id="h-DOIs_vs_PMIDs-20241030063600"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-DOIs_vs_PMIDs-20241030063600"></span>DOIs vs PMIDs<span data-mw-comment-end="h-DOIs_vs_PMIDs-20241030063600"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine&action=edit&section=6" title="Edit section: DOIs vs PMIDs"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Bon_courage-20241030063600-DOIs_vs_PMIDs"></span>Given the choice we should be preferring the former I think as it is an International Standard not a proprietary one. I suppose there may be a risk that PMIDs stop working if the US govt has its resourcing pulled? <a href="/wiki/User:Bon_courage" title="User:Bon courage">Bon courage</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Bon_courage" title="User talk:Bon courage">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine#c-Bon_courage-20241030063600-DOIs_vs_PMIDs" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">06:36, 30 October 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Bon_courage-20241030063600-DOIs_vs_PMIDs"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Bon_courage-20241030063600-DOIs_vs_PMIDs"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Colin-20241031091200-Bon_courage-20241030063600"></span>But they aren't equivalent. <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1238218222"><a href="/wiki/PMID_(identifier)" class="mw-redirect" title="PMID (identifier)">PMID</a> <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/37111210">37111210</a> takes me to the PubMed website with its own copy of the abstract and author details and other links and information. <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1238218222"><a href="/wiki/Doi_(identifier)" class="mw-redirect" title="Doi (identifier)">doi</a>:<a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://doi.org/10.3390%2Fnu15081991">10.3390/nu15081991</a> takes me to the publisher website's copy of the article. Surely there's a similar risk that a publisher might go under or suffer a Crowdstrike-like systems failure. And if PubMed stops being funded, who's to say International DOI Foundation might have some big falling out or loss of funding too, meaning all our doi.org links stop working. I don't know why you are asking us to prefer one or the other. Let's have both. -- <a href="/wiki/User:Colin" title="User:Colin">Colin</a>°<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Colin" title="User talk:Colin"><sup>Talk</sup></a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine#c-Colin-20241031091200-Bon_courage-20241030063600" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">09:12, 31 October 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Colin-20241031091200-Bon_courage-20241030063600"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Colin-20241031091200-Bon_courage-20241030063600"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Bon_courage-20241031111800-Colin-20241031091200"></span>Both sounds a safe option. I suppose I'm feeling jittery after seeing what problems the disappearance of the Internet Archive caused, which it was easy to assume was a permanent part of the Web, and because it's apparent the PUBMED infrastructure is subject to one government's ideals, which might change in odd ways.<a rel="nofollow" class="external autonumber" href="https://edition.cnn.com/2024/10/29/politics/rfk-trump-control-hhs-usda/index.html">[1]</a> <a href="/wiki/User:Bon_courage" title="User:Bon courage">Bon courage</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Bon_courage" title="User talk:Bon courage">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine#c-Bon_courage-20241031111800-Colin-20241031091200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">11:18, 31 October 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Bon_courage-20241031111800-Colin-20241031091200"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Bon_courage-20241031111800-Colin-20241031091200"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Colin-20241031161400-Bon_courage-20241031111800"></span>I suspect if PubMed lost funding from US Gov then it would be important enough to the international community to keep alive elsewhere. We'd have to rewrite the URLs from <b>pubmed.ncbi.nlm.gov</b> to <b>pubmed.org</b> or something, but that's a problem for the templates. -- <a href="/wiki/User:Colin" title="User:Colin">Colin</a>°<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Colin" title="User talk:Colin"><sup>Talk</sup></a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine#c-Colin-20241031161400-Bon_courage-20241031111800" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:14, 31 October 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Colin-20241031161400-Bon_courage-20241031111800"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Colin-20241031161400-Bon_courage-20241031111800"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Boghog-20241031164900-Colin-20241031161400"></span>At least part of PubMed is already mirrored by <a href="/wiki/Europe_PubMed_Central" title="Europe PubMed Central">Europe PubMed Central</a>. If PubMed lost funding from the U.S. government, then we are in a real world of [<a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://www.science.org/content/article/researchers-state-panic-after-robert-f-kennedy-jr-says-trump-will-hand-him-health">hurt</a>]. <a href="/wiki/User:Boghog" title="User:Boghog">Boghog</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Boghog" title="User talk:Boghog">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine#c-Boghog-20241031164900-Colin-20241031161400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:49, 31 October 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Boghog-20241031164900-Colin-20241031161400"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Boghog-20241031164900-Colin-20241031161400"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Bondegezou-20241031170700-Colin-20241031091200"></span>That sounds like a reason to prefer DOI to PMID. DOI represents the publisher's intention. <a href="/wiki/User:Bondegezou" title="User:Bondegezou">Bondegezou</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Bondegezou" title="User talk:Bondegezou">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine#c-Bondegezou-20241031170700-Colin-20241031091200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:07, 31 October 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Bondegezou-20241031170700-Colin-20241031091200"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Bondegezou-20241031170700-Colin-20241031091200"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Boghog-20241031171100-Bondegezou-20241031170700"></span>Both are useful for different reasons. There is no reason to prefer one over the other. <a href="/wiki/User:Boghog" title="User:Boghog">Boghog</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Boghog" title="User talk:Boghog">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine#c-Boghog-20241031171100-Bondegezou-20241031170700" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:11, 31 October 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Boghog-20241031171100-Bondegezou-20241031170700"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Boghog-20241031171100-Bondegezou-20241031170700"></span></dd> <dd><a href="/wiki/PubMed" title="PubMed"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Boghog-20241031172000-Bondegezou-20241031170700"></span>PubMed</a> provides a lot of useful information that is often lacking in the publisher sites, such as related citations, cited by, indexing (<a href="/wiki/MeSH" class="mw-redirect" title="MeSH">MeSH</a>, <a href="/wiki/HUGO_Gene_Nomenclature_Committee" title="HUGO Gene Nomenclature Committee">gene ID</a>, etc.). <a href="/wiki/User:Boghog" title="User:Boghog">Boghog</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Boghog" title="User talk:Boghog">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine#c-Boghog-20241031172000-Bondegezou-20241031170700" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:20, 31 October 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Boghog-20241031172000-Bondegezou-20241031170700"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Boghog-20241031172000-Bondegezou-20241031170700"></span></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Boghog-20241031172600-Bondegezou-20241031170700"></span>Not to mention links from PubMed to <a href="/wiki/PubMedCentral" class="mw-redirect" title="PubMedCentral">PubMedCentral</a> which contains full text that is sometimes missing from the publisher site. <a href="/wiki/User:Boghog" title="User:Boghog">Boghog</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Boghog" title="User talk:Boghog">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine#c-Boghog-20241031172600-Bondegezou-20241031170700" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:26, 31 October 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Boghog-20241031172600-Bondegezou-20241031170700"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Boghog-20241031172600-Bondegezou-20241031170700"></span></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Boghog-20241031174500-Bondegezou-20241031170700"></span>What makes PubMedCentral so valuable is the <a href="/wiki/NIH_Public_Access_Policy" title="NIH Public Access Policy">NIH Public Access Policy</a>. In short, any publication resulting from research funded by the NIH must be freely available to the public through PubMedCentral. <a href="/wiki/User:Boghog" title="User:Boghog">Boghog</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Boghog" title="User talk:Boghog">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine#c-Boghog-20241031174500-Bondegezou-20241031170700" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:45, 31 October 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Boghog-20241031174500-Bondegezou-20241031170700"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Boghog-20241031174500-Bondegezou-20241031170700"></span></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Colin-20241101083700-Bondegezou-20241031170700"></span>In the event of an announcement that PubMed was closing (it surely wouldn't happen by surprise overnight) then one of our bot wizards could look up all the PMID links to extract the DOI on the PubMed page, and add any missing DOI parameters/link to our references. Maybe there's a bot doing that already? If I use the Cite Journal editing tool, and supply a PMID, it can fill in the citation fields and the DOI. But if I supply a DOI then it can't lookup the PMID. So arguably the PMID is more useful at the moment, as it unlocks information about the other IDs that a DOI can't. I remain puzzled why we are being asked to prefer one. -- <a href="/wiki/User:Colin" title="User:Colin">Colin</a>°<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Colin" title="User talk:Colin"><sup>Talk</sup></a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine#c-Colin-20241101083700-Bondegezou-20241031170700" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">08:37, 1 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Colin-20241101083700-Bondegezou-20241031170700"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Colin-20241101083700-Bondegezou-20241031170700"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Boghog-20241101094900-Colin-20241101083700"></span>Yes, <a href="/wiki/User:Citation_bot" title="User:Citation bot">User:Citation bot</a> already does this. If at least one of <code class="tpl-para" style="word-break:break-word;">|pmid=</code>, <code class="tpl-para" style="word-break:break-word;">|pmc=</code>, or <code class="tpl-para" style="word-break:break-word;">|doi=</code> is specified, it can usually fill in the missing ones if they exist. <a href="/wiki/User:Boghog" title="User:Boghog">Boghog</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Boghog" title="User talk:Boghog">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine#c-Boghog-20241101094900-Colin-20241101083700" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">09:49, 1 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Boghog-20241101094900-Colin-20241101083700"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Boghog-20241101094900-Colin-20241101083700"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Delirium_caused_by_Anticholinergic_medications" data-mw-thread-id="h-Delirium_caused_by_Anticholinergic_medications-20241101060000"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Delirium_caused_by_Anticholinergic_medications-20241101060000"></span>Delirium caused by Anticholinergic medications<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Delirium_caused_by_Anticholinergic_medications-20241101060000"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine&action=edit&section=7" title="Edit section: Delirium caused by Anticholinergic medications"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Noam_Atadgy-20241101060000-Delirium_caused_by_Anticholinergic_medications"></span>Hello. An experienced Doctor recommended I ask for help with the Delirium article here, he says he isnt available and very busy. </p><p>Delirium, as most of you know, is a disorder / syndrome which occurs mostly in old / elderly people above age 70 or so. However, there is another type of Delirium caused by anticholinergic medications, and the Delirium article confuses readers by talking about mostly the elderly part of age over 70 people who have Delirium, not the other type caused by anticholinergic medications. </p><p>I came here to ask for help with improving the Delirium article for that. Are there any people who can possibly help me improve Delirium article? Doctors I prefer of course, but anyone with medical knowledge generally. <a href="/wiki/User:Noam_Atadgy" class="mw-redirect" title="User:Noam Atadgy">Noam Atadgy</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Noam_Atadgy" class="mw-redirect" title="User talk:Noam Atadgy">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine#c-Noam_Atadgy-20241101060000-Delirium_caused_by_Anticholinergic_medications" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">06:00, 1 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Noam_Atadgy-20241101060000-Delirium_caused_by_Anticholinergic_medications"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Noam_Atadgy-20241101060000-Delirium_caused_by_Anticholinergic_medications"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Noam_Atadgy-20241101060100-Noam_Atadgy-20241101060000"></span>I forgot to say. I've improved Delirium article myself by alot! But theres some work needs to be done. <a href="/wiki/User:Noam_Atadgy" class="mw-redirect" title="User:Noam Atadgy">Noam Atadgy</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Noam_Atadgy" class="mw-redirect" title="User talk:Noam Atadgy">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine#c-Noam_Atadgy-20241101060100-Noam_Atadgy-20241101060000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">06:01, 1 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Noam_Atadgy-20241101060100-Noam_Atadgy-20241101060000"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Noam_Atadgy-20241101060100-Noam_Atadgy-20241101060000"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Bon_courage-20241101073300-Noam_Atadgy-20241101060100"></span>I suppose there are many substances which can cause acute delirium.<a rel="nofollow" class="external autonumber" href="https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33040861/">[2]</a> These should be mentioned in context without giving undue weight among the many causes overall.<a rel="nofollow" class="external autonumber" href="https://www.nhsinform.scot/illnesses-and-conditions/brain-nerves-and-spinal-cord/delirium/">[3]</a> <a href="/wiki/User:Bon_courage" title="User:Bon courage">Bon courage</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Bon_courage" title="User talk:Bon courage">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine#c-Bon_courage-20241101073300-Noam_Atadgy-20241101060100" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">07:33, 1 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Bon_courage-20241101073300-Noam_Atadgy-20241101060100"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Bon_courage-20241101073300-Noam_Atadgy-20241101060100"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-WhatamIdoing-20241102015000-Bon_courage-20241101073300"></span>Perhaps the redirect <a href="/wiki/Substance-induced_delirium" title="Substance-induced delirium">Substance-induced delirium</a> (also <a href="/wiki/ICU_delirium" class="mw-redirect" title="ICU delirium">ICU delirium</a>) should be turned into a separate article. <a href="/wiki/User:G.J.ThomThom" title="User:G.J.ThomThom">G.J.ThomThom</a>, the latter might be a good option for your students. <a href="/wiki/Category:Redirects_with_possibilities" title="Category:Redirects with possibilities">Category:Redirects with possibilities</a> might be an interesting place to find likely missing articles. <a href="/wiki/User:WhatamIdoing" title="User:WhatamIdoing">WhatamIdoing</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:WhatamIdoing" title="User talk:WhatamIdoing">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine#c-WhatamIdoing-20241102015000-Bon_courage-20241101073300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:50, 2 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-WhatamIdoing-20241102015000-Bon_courage-20241101073300"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-WhatamIdoing-20241102015000-Bon_courage-20241101073300"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Noam_Atadgy-20241102020600-WhatamIdoing-20241102015000"></span>Thats an amazing idea. I had no clue this redirect even exists. If a doctor can help write the basic info and start that new article it'd help alot. Although the current Delirium article talks about delirium caused by medication as well, it doesnt go into full details about it. Readers who read Delirium article, read about the one in old / elderly 70+ patients in hospitals. We need to separate the 2 types of Delirium.</dd> <dd>Another thing is. In the past Delirium was also called "Acute confusional state"? What does that mean? <a href="/wiki/User:Noam_Atadgy" class="mw-redirect" title="User:Noam Atadgy">Noam Atadgy</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Noam_Atadgy" class="mw-redirect" title="User talk:Noam Atadgy">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine#c-Noam_Atadgy-20241102020600-WhatamIdoing-20241102015000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:06, 2 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Noam_Atadgy-20241102020600-WhatamIdoing-20241102015000"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Noam_Atadgy-20241102020600-WhatamIdoing-20241102015000"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-WhatamIdoing-20241106192000-Noam_Atadgy-20241102020600"></span>@<a href="/wiki/User:Noam_Atadgy" class="mw-redirect" title="User:Noam Atadgy">Noam Atadgy</a>, if we wait for one of the physicians to do this, it could be years. Why don't you try putting together a very short article in <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Noam_Atadgy/sandbox&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Noam Atadgy/sandbox (page does not exist)">User:Noam Atadgy/sandbox</a>, just to get us started? You can copy relevant text and sources out of the main article. You can make a list of substances from <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://www.google.com/books/edition/The_Treatment_Of_Psychiatric_Disorders/jnt0DwAAQBAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=anticholinergic+delirium&pg=PT25&printsec=frontcover">this book</a>. <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://www.google.com/books/edition/The_American_Psychiatric_Association_Pub/-WZnDwAAQBAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=anticholinergic+delirium&pg=PA1159&printsec=frontcover">This book</a> has two long paragraphs specifically about anticholinergic delirium, which you could probably summarize in two or three simpler sentences. I think you could be successful in creating this page. <a href="/wiki/User:WhatamIdoing" title="User:WhatamIdoing">WhatamIdoing</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:WhatamIdoing" title="User talk:WhatamIdoing">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine#c-WhatamIdoing-20241106192000-Noam_Atadgy-20241102020600" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:20, 6 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-WhatamIdoing-20241106192000-Noam_Atadgy-20241102020600"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-WhatamIdoing-20241106192000-Noam_Atadgy-20241102020600"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Fake_AI-generated_article?" data-mw-thread-id="h-Fake_AI-generated_article?-20241102161300"><span id="Fake_AI-generated_article.3F"></span><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Fake_AI-generated_article?-20241102161300"></span>Fake AI-generated article?<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Fake_AI-generated_article?-20241102161300"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine&action=edit&section=8" title="Edit section: Fake AI-generated article?"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-108.2.108.191-20241102161300-Fake_AI-generated_article?"></span>I'm concerned about the content of <a href="/wiki/Canfosfamide" title="Canfosfamide">canfosfamide</a>. I noticed that the references for this article have broken DOIs. Upon investigation, I found that the titles of the references cannot be found by a Google search. This type of real-looking but fake references is characteristic of what is written by ChatGTP and other AI text generators. I suspect that this article was largely written by AI. Other medical articles started by Ashleythesciencenerd may have the same problem (<a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Cancer_exodus_hypothesis&diff=prev&oldid=1251633723">example</a>). <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/108.2.108.191" title="Special:Contributions/108.2.108.191">108.2.108.191</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:108.2.108.191" title="User talk:108.2.108.191">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine#c-108.2.108.191-20241102161300-Fake_AI-generated_article?" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:13, 2 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-108.2.108.191-20241102161300-Fake_AI-generated_article?"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-108.2.108.191-20241102161300-Fake_AI-generated_article?"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Boghog-20241102183300-108.2.108.191-20241102161300"></span>Yep, this article contains AI-generated fake references. While the topic is legitimate, the entire article needs to be rewritten. It appears that ChatGPT was used to create this content, which is cannot be used for reliable sourcing. Perplexity is generally a much more reliable option for generating accurate references. Regardless, if an AI tool is used to create content, it must be carefully checked by editors before posting. <a href="/wiki/User:Boghog" title="User:Boghog">Boghog</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Boghog" title="User talk:Boghog">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine#c-Boghog-20241102183300-108.2.108.191-20241102161300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:33, 2 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Boghog-20241102183300-108.2.108.191-20241102161300"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Boghog-20241102183300-108.2.108.191-20241102161300"></span></dd> <dd><a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Canfosfamide&diff=1255045051&oldid=1255009206"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Boghog-20241102212400-108.2.108.191-20241102161300"></span>Rewritten</a> sported by real citations. <a href="/wiki/User:Boghog" title="User:Boghog">Boghog</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Boghog" title="User talk:Boghog">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine#c-Boghog-20241102212400-108.2.108.191-20241102161300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:24, 2 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Boghog-20241102212400-108.2.108.191-20241102161300"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Boghog-20241102212400-108.2.108.191-20241102161300"></span></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Bots_tagging_"outdated"_Cochrane_reviews" data-mw-thread-id="h-Bots_tagging_"outdated"_Cochrane_reviews-20241103073100"><span id="Bots_tagging_.22outdated.22_Cochrane_reviews"></span><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Bots_tagging_"outdated"_Cochrane_reviews-20241103073100"></span>Bots tagging "outdated" Cochrane reviews<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Bots_tagging_"outdated"_Cochrane_reviews-20241103073100"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine&action=edit&section=9" title="Edit section: Bots tagging "outdated" Cochrane reviews"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Moribundum-20241103073100-Bots_tagging_"outdated"_Cochrane_reviews"></span>Hello, </p><p>This bot-tagging of Cochrane reviews when they are updated with newer ones is a helpful feature to keep wp up to date. However I have a situation where both the older review and the updated one are cited. Therefore, the bot's actions are unhelpful. I reverted one such bot edit already, but now it happened again. </p><p>Here is the section in question: <a href="/wiki/Ventral_rectopexy#Controversy_regarding_use_of_mesh" title="Ventral rectopexy">Ventral_rectopexy#Controversy_regarding_use_of_mesh</a> </p><p>This section of the article is a "background" or "history" of the development of the procedure. I thought the earlier Cochrane review was an important landmark publication to include in this section. The latest Cochrane review is cited in the next sentence. Thoughts? Thank you <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Moribundum&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Moribundum (page does not exist)">Moribundum</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Moribundum" title="User talk:Moribundum">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine#c-Moribundum-20241103073100-Bots_tagging_"outdated"_Cochrane_reviews" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">07:31, 3 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Moribundum-20241103073100-Bots_tagging_"outdated"_Cochrane_reviews"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Moribundum-20241103073100-Bots_tagging_"outdated"_Cochrane_reviews"></span> </p> <dl><dd><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Medicine/Cochrane_update" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Medicine/Cochrane update"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Thincat-20241103120600-Moribundum-20241103073100"></span>Wikipedia:WikiProject Medicine/Cochrane update</a> tells you how to stop the bot repeating the tag. I think maybe the bot's edit comment should point this out. <a href="/wiki/User:Thincat" title="User:Thincat">Thincat</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Thincat" title="User talk:Thincat">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine#c-Thincat-20241103120600-Moribundum-20241103073100" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">12:06, 3 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Thincat-20241103120600-Moribundum-20241103073100"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Thincat-20241103120600-Moribundum-20241103073100"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Moribundum-20241104054500-Thincat-20241103120600"></span>Thanks for answer. <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Moribundum&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Moribundum (page does not exist)">Moribundum</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Moribundum" title="User talk:Moribundum">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine#c-Moribundum-20241104054500-Thincat-20241103120600" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">05:45, 4 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Moribundum-20241104054500-Thincat-20241103120600"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Moribundum-20241104054500-Thincat-20241103120600"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Headbomb-20241104065800-Moribundum-20241104054500"></span>See also <a href="#How_to_use_withdrawn_Cochrane_reviews">#How to use withdrawn Cochrane reviews</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/2024-06-08/Special_report" title="Wikipedia:Wikipedia Signpost/2024-06-08/Special report">Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/2024-06-08/Special_report</a>, and <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/2024-06-08/Special_report#c-Tom_Morris-20240609163300-Compassionate727-20240609004800" title="Wikipedia:Wikipedia Signpost/2024-06-08/Special report">this comment</a>. <span style="font-variant:small-caps; whitespace:nowrap;"><a href="/wiki/User:Headbomb" title="User:Headbomb">Headbomb</a> {<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Headbomb" title="User talk:Headbomb">t</a> · <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Headbomb" title="Special:Contributions/Headbomb">c</a> · <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:PHYS" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:PHYS">p</a> · <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WBOOKS" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:WBOOKS">b</a>}</span> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine#c-Headbomb-20241104065800-Moribundum-20241104054500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">06:58, 4 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Headbomb-20241104065800-Moribundum-20241104054500"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Headbomb-20241104065800-Moribundum-20241104054500"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-JenOttawa-20241106174700-Moribundum-20241103073100"></span>Thank you for flagging. Great to see these articles being improved. I do the following in these instances (shared on the bot project page) "If we wish to use the old review in an article (e.g.: in the historical context), the reference can be marked with , where PMID is the Pubmed ID for the reference, and the bot will ignore it." <a href="/wiki/User:JenOttawa" title="User:JenOttawa">JenOttawa</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:JenOttawa" title="User talk:JenOttawa">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine#c-JenOttawa-20241106174700-Moribundum-20241103073100" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:47, 6 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-JenOttawa-20241106174700-Moribundum-20241103073100"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-JenOttawa-20241106174700-Moribundum-20241103073100"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-JenOttawa-20241106175100-JenOttawa-20241106174700"></span>Sorry to be so late, I see that this was figured out. This edit looks good to me <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Moribundum&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Moribundum (page does not exist)">Moribundum</a>! [<a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Ventral_rectopexy&diff=1255300867&oldid=1255078723">[4]</a>] If it get's re-flagged please let me know and I can get some help looking for another solution.<a href="/wiki/User:JenOttawa" title="User:JenOttawa">JenOttawa</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:JenOttawa" title="User talk:JenOttawa">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine#c-JenOttawa-20241106175100-JenOttawa-20241106174700" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:51, 6 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-JenOttawa-20241106175100-JenOttawa-20241106174700"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-JenOttawa-20241106175100-JenOttawa-20241106174700"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Recent_edits_by_AdeptLearner123" data-mw-thread-id="h-Recent_edits_by_AdeptLearner123-20241105005300"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Recent_edits_by_AdeptLearner123-20241105005300"></span>Recent edits by AdeptLearner123<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Recent_edits_by_AdeptLearner123-20241105005300"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine&action=edit&section=10" title="Edit section: Recent edits by AdeptLearner123"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><a href="/wiki/User:AdeptLearner123" title="User:AdeptLearner123"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-WikiOriginal-9-20241105005300-Recent_edits_by_AdeptLearner123"></span>AdeptLearner123</a> recently cut down <a href="/wiki/Crohn%27s_disease" title="Crohn's disease">Crohn's disease</a> from <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Crohn%27s_disease&oldid=1251397700#External_links">257 references</a> to only <i><b>45</b></i>. I didn't go through all 243 of their recent edits to that page, but it seems unlikely this is an improvement. Thoughts? <s>They cut down <a href="/wiki/Tumor_necrosis_factor" title="Tumor necrosis factor">Tumor necrosis factor</a> as well.</s> An IP also left <a href="/wiki/Talk:Crohn%27s_disease#Article_stripped_of_most_of_its_content" title="Talk:Crohn's disease">a comment</a> on the Crohn's disease talk page about this issue. <a href="/wiki/User:WikiOriginal-9" title="User:WikiOriginal-9"><span style="color: blue"><i><b>~WikiOriginal-9~</b></i></span></a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:WikiOriginal-9" title="User talk:WikiOriginal-9"><span style="color: blue"><b>talk</b></span></a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine#c-WikiOriginal-9-20241105005300-Recent_edits_by_AdeptLearner123" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:53, 5 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-WikiOriginal-9-20241105005300-Recent_edits_by_AdeptLearner123"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-WikiOriginal-9-20241105005300-Recent_edits_by_AdeptLearner123"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-AdeptLearner123-20241105005700-WikiOriginal-9-20241105005300"></span>The majority of those references were from unreviewed webpages, or outdated papers. I have focused the references around a smaller number of articles from highly reputed journals, such as Nature and Mayo Clinic. <a href="/wiki/User:AdeptLearner123" title="User:AdeptLearner123">AdeptLearner123</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:AdeptLearner123" title="User talk:AdeptLearner123">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine#c-AdeptLearner123-20241105005700-WikiOriginal-9-20241105005300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:57, 5 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-AdeptLearner123-20241105005700-WikiOriginal-9-20241105005300"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-AdeptLearner123-20241105005700-WikiOriginal-9-20241105005300"></span></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-AdeptLearner123-20241105010800-WikiOriginal-9-20241105005300"></span>I did not cut down the tumor necrosis factor article; the prose increased from 250 to 300 kB. My changes brought the TNF article to GA status. <a href="/wiki/User:AdeptLearner123" title="User:AdeptLearner123">AdeptLearner123</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:AdeptLearner123" title="User talk:AdeptLearner123">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine#c-AdeptLearner123-20241105010800-WikiOriginal-9-20241105005300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:08, 5 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-AdeptLearner123-20241105010800-WikiOriginal-9-20241105005300"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-AdeptLearner123-20241105010800-WikiOriginal-9-20241105005300"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-WikiOriginal-9-20241105011500-AdeptLearner123-20241105010800"></span>Fair enough. I was just looking at the number of references (83 to 40). <a href="/wiki/User:WikiOriginal-9" title="User:WikiOriginal-9"><span style="color: blue"><i><b>~WikiOriginal-9~</b></i></span></a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:WikiOriginal-9" title="User talk:WikiOriginal-9"><span style="color: blue"><b>talk</b></span></a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine#c-WikiOriginal-9-20241105011500-AdeptLearner123-20241105010800" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:15, 5 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-WikiOriginal-9-20241105011500-AdeptLearner123-20241105010800"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-WikiOriginal-9-20241105011500-AdeptLearner123-20241105010800"></span></dd></dl></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-IntentionallyDense-20241105012000-WikiOriginal-9-20241105005300"></span>Although I haven’t looked through the Crohn’s disease article it’s not uncommon to remove sources for various reasons. For example according to <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:MEDDATE" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:MEDDATE">WP:MEDDATE</a> articles over 5 years old should be replaced with newer sources. So perhaps maybe a couple older refs were replaced in favour of newer more comprehensive sources? It’s also not uncommon to have one comprehensive article replace several smaller less comprehensive sources. Pretty much what I’m trying to say is although it may look odd, removing sources isn’t always a bad thing especially with medical articles. <a href="/wiki/User:IntentionallyDense" title="User:IntentionallyDense">IntentionallyDense</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:IntentionallyDense" title="User talk:IntentionallyDense">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine#c-IntentionallyDense-20241105012000-WikiOriginal-9-20241105005300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:20, 5 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-IntentionallyDense-20241105012000-WikiOriginal-9-20241105005300"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-IntentionallyDense-20241105012000-WikiOriginal-9-20241105005300"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Noxoug1-20241105120600-IntentionallyDense-20241105012000"></span>@<a href="/wiki/User:IntentionallyDense" title="User:IntentionallyDense">IntentionallyDense</a> if there aren`t any newer sources, is it ok to keep the existing ones? what would be recommended? <a href="/wiki/User:Noxoug1" title="User:Noxoug1">Noxoug1</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Noxoug1" title="User talk:Noxoug1">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine#c-Noxoug1-20241105120600-IntentionallyDense-20241105012000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">12:06, 5 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Noxoug1-20241105120600-IntentionallyDense-20241105012000"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Noxoug1-20241105120600-IntentionallyDense-20241105012000"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-IntentionallyDense-20241105150700-Noxoug1-20241105120600"></span>If there is no newer sources then use the most recent, reliable and comprehensive source you can find. <a href="/wiki/User:IntentionallyDense" title="User:IntentionallyDense">IntentionallyDense</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:IntentionallyDense" title="User talk:IntentionallyDense">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine#c-IntentionallyDense-20241105150700-Noxoug1-20241105120600" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:07, 5 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-IntentionallyDense-20241105150700-Noxoug1-20241105120600"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-IntentionallyDense-20241105150700-Noxoug1-20241105120600"></span></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-WhatamIdoing-20241106194100-Noxoug1-20241105120600"></span>I agree with IntentionallyDense: Use the best sources you can, and remember that MEDDATE is trying to guide you to the best sources, rather than providing a hard and fast cut off date. Usually, in a heavily researched area (think <a href="/wiki/Hypercholesterolemia" title="Hypercholesterolemia">Hypercholesterolemia</a>), you can write a great article using only <a href="/wiki/Review_articles" class="mw-redirect" title="Review articles">review articles</a> from the top-ranked journals and the best med school textbooks, every source published in the last five years, and still have plenty of high-quality sources left over. In a less popular area, you may need to stretch that: maybe the sources need to be from mid-ranked journals. Maybe you need a couple of primary sources. Maybe you need sources that are 10 years old.</dd> <dd>Our advice is to aim for the ideal, but to do what's practical. <a href="/wiki/User:WhatamIdoing" title="User:WhatamIdoing">WhatamIdoing</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:WhatamIdoing" title="User talk:WhatamIdoing">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine#c-WhatamIdoing-20241106194100-Noxoug1-20241105120600" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:41, 6 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-WhatamIdoing-20241106194100-Noxoug1-20241105120600"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-WhatamIdoing-20241106194100-Noxoug1-20241105120600"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Ajpolino-20241105201200-WikiOriginal-9-20241105005300"></span>When I updated <a href="/wiki/Prostate_cancer" title="Prostate cancer">prostate cancer</a> and brought it to <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:FA" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:FA">featured article</a> status, the number of references dropped from 355 to 128. Some of that was trimming material, but much of that loss was updating the sourcing to more recent, higher-quality references. When an article grows bit-by-bit you often get 100 facts with 100 references. When sections or whole articles are updated at once you might get 100 facts with 20 references. Neither is inherently better. I'd suggest picking a section of <a href="/wiki/Crohn%27s_disease" title="Crohn's disease">Crohn's disease</a> (or any other article you're concerned about) and comparing the text/sources before and after to see if you feel it's improving or not. Hopefully you'll find it is (I haven't looked at it myself). If you find particular concerns, we'll have more to discuss here. <a href="/wiki/User:Ajpolino" title="User:Ajpolino">Ajpolino</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Ajpolino" title="User talk:Ajpolino">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine#c-Ajpolino-20241105201200-WikiOriginal-9-20241105005300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:12, 5 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Ajpolino-20241105201200-WikiOriginal-9-20241105005300"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Ajpolino-20241105201200-WikiOriginal-9-20241105005300"></span></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="WP:MED_articles_with_no_references" data-mw-thread-id="h-WP:MED_articles_with_no_references-20241105214000"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-WP:MED_articles_with_no_references-20241105214000"></span>WP:MED articles with no references<span data-mw-comment-end="h-WP:MED_articles_with_no_references-20241105214000"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine&action=edit&section=11" title="Edit section: WP:MED articles with no references"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Ajpolino-20241105214000-WP:MED_articles_with_no_references"></span>Hi all, WikiProject Unreferenced articles is holding a <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Unreferenced_articles/Backlog_drives/November_2024" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Unreferenced articles/Backlog drives/November 2024">backlog drive</a> this month to further reduce the number of articles tagged as completely lacking sources. This number has fallen precipitously over the last several years: from 153180 (Nov 2021) to 135232 (Nov 2022) to 1169778 (Nov 2023) to 78548 today. Perhaps we can help them out by taking a look at the <a href="/wiki/User:Ajpolino/sandbox2" title="User:Ajpolino/sandbox2">138 articles</a> currently tagged with our project's tag and <span class="nowrap">{{</span><a href="/wiki/Template:Unreferenced" title="Template:Unreferenced">unreferenced</a><span class="nowrap">}}</span>. A single reference to backup material in the article is sufficient to remove the tag. That list is at my sandbox, feel free to edit/comment that list directly or post here if you prefer. <a href="/wiki/User:Ajpolino" title="User:Ajpolino">Ajpolino</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Ajpolino" title="User talk:Ajpolino">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine#c-Ajpolino-20241105214000-WP:MED_articles_with_no_references" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:40, 5 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Ajpolino-20241105214000-WP:MED_articles_with_no_references"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Ajpolino-20241105214000-WP:MED_articles_with_no_references"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Noxoug1-20241106081100-Ajpolino-20241105214000"></span>I will put some time aside this month to look at these articles. Thanks for flagging @<a href="/wiki/User:Ajpolino" title="User:Ajpolino">Ajpolino</a> <a href="/wiki/User:Noxoug1" title="User:Noxoug1">Noxoug1</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Noxoug1" title="User talk:Noxoug1">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine#c-Noxoug1-20241106081100-Ajpolino-20241105214000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">08:11, 6 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Noxoug1-20241106081100-Ajpolino-20241105214000"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Noxoug1-20241106081100-Ajpolino-20241105214000"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Whispyhistory-20241106145200-Noxoug1-20241106081100"></span>Thank you... I will try and help too. <a href="/wiki/User:Whispyhistory" title="User:Whispyhistory">Whispyhistory</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Whispyhistory" title="User talk:Whispyhistory">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine#c-Whispyhistory-20241106145200-Noxoug1-20241106081100" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">14:52, 6 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Whispyhistory-20241106145200-Noxoug1-20241106081100"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Whispyhistory-20241106145200-Noxoug1-20241106081100"></span></dd></dl></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-WhatamIdoing-20241106194900-Ajpolino-20241105214000"></span>If I make a list of promising new-ish editors who have recently edited medicine-related articles, is someone willing to invite them to help out? This seems like a good project for someone who would like to help but aren't sure where to start. Also, can we send out a new <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Medicine/Newsletter" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Medicine/Newsletter">Wikipedia:WikiProject Medicine/Newsletter</a>? <a href="/wiki/User:WhatamIdoing" title="User:WhatamIdoing">WhatamIdoing</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:WhatamIdoing" title="User talk:WhatamIdoing">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine#c-WhatamIdoing-20241106194900-Ajpolino-20241105214000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:49, 6 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-WhatamIdoing-20241106194900-Ajpolino-20241105214000"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-WhatamIdoing-20241106194900-Ajpolino-20241105214000"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Ajpolino-20241106212500-WhatamIdoing-20241106194900"></span>Of course, I'm happy to help. Also I can put together a new newsletter this week. If anyone has thoughts/suggestions for newsletter topics or alternative formats that would make the newsletter more useful, please share them at <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Newsletter" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Medicine/Newsletter">Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Medicine/Newsletter</a>. <a href="/wiki/User:Ajpolino" title="User:Ajpolino">Ajpolino</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Ajpolino" title="User talk:Ajpolino">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine#c-Ajpolino-20241106212500-WhatamIdoing-20241106194900" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:25, 6 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Ajpolino-20241106212500-WhatamIdoing-20241106194900"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Ajpolino-20241106212500-WhatamIdoing-20241106194900"></span></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Ajpolino-20241110223200-WhatamIdoing-20241106194900"></span><span typeof="mw:File"><span><img alt="Yes" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/97/Crystal_message2.png/20px-Crystal_message2.png" decoding="async" width="20" height="20" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/97/Crystal_message2.png/30px-Crystal_message2.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/97/Crystal_message2.png/40px-Crystal_message2.png 2x" data-file-width="64" data-file-height="64"/></span></span> <b>Sent</b>. If you don't subscribe to the newsletter, you can change that by adding your name to <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Medicine/Newsletter/Mailing_list" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Medicine/Newsletter/Mailing list">the mailing list</a>. Apologies if the height of the side-by-side boxes looks janky at your screen width (you'll be comforted to know it looks great with my settings). If someone knows how to come up with a more universal solution, please do let me know. <a href="/wiki/User:Ajpolino" title="User:Ajpolino">Ajpolino</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Ajpolino" title="User talk:Ajpolino">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine#c-Ajpolino-20241110223200-WhatamIdoing-20241106194900" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:32, 10 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Ajpolino-20241110223200-WhatamIdoing-20241106194900"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Ajpolino-20241110223200-WhatamIdoing-20241106194900"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Article_on_subjective_refraction" data-mw-thread-id="h-Article_on_subjective_refraction-20241107011300"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Article_on_subjective_refraction-20241107011300"></span>Article on subjective refraction<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Article_on_subjective_refraction-20241107011300"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine&action=edit&section=12" title="Edit section: Article on subjective refraction"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-RTao-20241107011300-Article_on_subjective_refraction"></span>Hello - as there does not seem to be an optometry WikiProject I am asking here instead in the hopes that someone has the necessary expertise. The article <a href="/wiki/Subjective_refraction" title="Subjective refraction">Subjective refraction</a>, despite being (as far as I know) a fairly important topic in optometry, is in a rather unacceptable state. The vast majority of the article is written as a how-to guide and not a well-formatted one at that. Some content is probably salvageable, but everything else needs to be completely rewritten, so I think this will require some subject matter expertise. There seems to be a list of medical textbooks in the references. Thanks. — <a href="/wiki/User:RTao" title="User:RTao"><span style="font-variant:small-caps">RTao</span></a> <small>(<a href="/wiki/User_talk:RTao" title="User talk:RTao">talk</a> • <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/RTao" title="Special:Contributions/RTao">contribs</a>)</small> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine#c-RTao-20241107011300-Article_on_subjective_refraction" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:13, 7 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-RTao-20241107011300-Article_on_subjective_refraction"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-RTao-20241107011300-Article_on_subjective_refraction"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-IntentionallyDense-20241107013400-RTao-20241107011300"></span>Contrary to popular belief you don’t need any medical expertise to edit medical articles on Wikipedia. I understand you may not be comfortable editing such a technical area but I encourage you to try! <a href="/wiki/User:IntentionallyDense" title="User:IntentionallyDense">IntentionallyDense</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:IntentionallyDense" title="User talk:IntentionallyDense">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine#c-IntentionallyDense-20241107013400-RTao-20241107011300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:34, 7 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-IntentionallyDense-20241107013400-RTao-20241107011300"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-IntentionallyDense-20241107013400-RTao-20241107011300"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-RTao-20241107025600-IntentionallyDense-20241107013400"></span>@<a href="/wiki/User:IntentionallyDense" title="User:IntentionallyDense">IntentionallyDense</a> Fair point. I have edited in areas I know little about before, and I should probably do some of the basic cleanup there if I have time. Nevertheless, I hope someone with topic knowledge will contribute to making the eventual article more comprehensive/balanced. — <a href="/wiki/User:RTao" title="User:RTao"><span style="font-variant:small-caps">RTao</span></a> <small>(<a href="/wiki/User_talk:RTao" title="User talk:RTao">talk</a> • <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/RTao" title="Special:Contributions/RTao">contribs</a>)</small> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine#c-RTao-20241107025600-IntentionallyDense-20241107013400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:56, 7 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-RTao-20241107025600-IntentionallyDense-20241107013400"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-RTao-20241107025600-IntentionallyDense-20241107013400"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="California_opioid_crisis" data-mw-thread-id="h-California_opioid_crisis-20241108145400"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-California_opioid_crisis-20241108145400"></span>California opioid crisis<span data-mw-comment-end="h-California_opioid_crisis-20241108145400"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine&action=edit&section=13" title="Edit section: California opioid crisis"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Klbrain-20241108145400-California_opioid_crisis"></span>It would be helpful to have some more views on a proposal to merge <a href="/wiki/Fentanyl_crisis_in_San_Francisco" title="Fentanyl crisis in San Francisco">Fentanyl crisis in San Francisco</a> into <a href="/wiki/California_opioid_crisis" title="California opioid crisis">California opioid crisis</a>, the case being <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:MERGEREASON" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:MERGEREASON">short text, context, and overlap</a>. The discussion is at <a href="/wiki/Talk:California_opioid_crisis#Fentanyl_crisis_in_San_Francisco" title="Talk:California opioid crisis">Talk:California opioid crisis#Fentanyl crisis in San Francisco</a>. <a href="/wiki/User:Klbrain" title="User:Klbrain">Klbrain</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Klbrain" title="User talk:Klbrain">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine#c-Klbrain-20241108145400-California_opioid_crisis" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">14:54, 8 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Klbrain-20241108145400-California_opioid_crisis"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Klbrain-20241108145400-California_opioid_crisis"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Ozzie10aaaa-20241113114800-Klbrain-20241108145400"></span>thank you for posting--<a href="/wiki/User:Ozzie10aaaa" title="User:Ozzie10aaaa">Ozzie10aaaa</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Ozzie10aaaa" title="User talk:Ozzie10aaaa">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine#c-Ozzie10aaaa-20241113114800-Klbrain-20241108145400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">11:48, 13 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Ozzie10aaaa-20241113114800-Klbrain-20241108145400"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Ozzie10aaaa-20241113114800-Klbrain-20241108145400"></span></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Could_you_please_see_if_these_changes_violate_MEDRS?" data-mw-thread-id="h-Could_you_please_see_if_these_changes_violate_MEDRS?-20241110203700"><span id="Could_you_please_see_if_these_changes_violate_MEDRS.3F"></span><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Could_you_please_see_if_these_changes_violate_MEDRS?-20241110203700"></span>Could you please see if these changes violate MEDRS?<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Could_you_please_see_if_these_changes_violate_MEDRS?-20241110203700"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine&action=edit&section=14" title="Edit section: Could you please see if these changes violate MEDRS?"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-143.208.239.58-20241110203700-Could_you_please_see_if_these_changes_violate_MEDRS?"></span>I initially posted this at <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Helpdesk#Could_someone_who_knows_WP:MEDRS,_please_look_at_these_changes?" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:Helpdesk">WP:Helpdesk#Could someone who knows WP:MEDRS, please look at these changes?</a>, so I wont repeat it here. I was recommended here, though if you'd prefer you can answer there. These were changes by a newish account that I am reluctant to revert myself, not my changes. – user usually at <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/2804:F14::/32" title="Special:Contributions/2804:F14::/32">2804:F14::/32</a>, currently <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/143.208.239.58" title="Special:Contributions/143.208.239.58">143.208.239.58</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:143.208.239.58" title="User talk:143.208.239.58">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine#c-143.208.239.58-20241110203700-Could_you_please_see_if_these_changes_violate_MEDRS?" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:37, 10 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-143.208.239.58-20241110203700-Could_you_please_see_if_these_changes_violate_MEDRS?"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-143.208.239.58-20241110203700-Could_you_please_see_if_these_changes_violate_MEDRS?"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-143.208.239.58-20241111013400-143.208.239.58-20241110203700"></span>Just to make it easier, the source they used is <a rel="nofollow" class="external free" href="https://www.acespsychiatry.com/2024/10/12/what-to-say-to-kids/">https://www.acespsychiatry.com/2024/10/12/what-to-say-to-kids/</a>. – <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/143.208.239.58" title="Special:Contributions/143.208.239.58">143.208.239.58</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:143.208.239.58" title="User talk:143.208.239.58">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine#c-143.208.239.58-20241111013400-143.208.239.58-20241110203700" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:34, 11 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-143.208.239.58-20241111013400-143.208.239.58-20241110203700"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-143.208.239.58-20241111013400-143.208.239.58-20241110203700"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-JenOttawa-20241113023400-143.208.239.58-20241111013400"></span>Hi, thanks for sharing! while the content is sourced (has references) it does not appear to be peer reviewed. In addition, on closer inspection, this is posted on a clinic website. The content itself may be helpful for improving the article. You could suggest that the person look at the reference list that the author generated for high quality secondary sources and improve the article using those if the person feels that the content is appropriate and helpful for improving the article.<a href="/wiki/User:JenOttawa" title="User:JenOttawa">JenOttawa</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:JenOttawa" title="User talk:JenOttawa">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine#c-JenOttawa-20241113023400-143.208.239.58-20241111013400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:34, 13 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-JenOttawa-20241113023400-143.208.239.58-20241111013400"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-JenOttawa-20241113023400-143.208.239.58-20241111013400"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-JenOttawa-20241113023700-JenOttawa-20241113023400"></span>I just went to your post at the help deck. Good to see this was reverted as pretty weak source! <a href="/wiki/User:JenOttawa" title="User:JenOttawa">JenOttawa</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:JenOttawa" title="User talk:JenOttawa">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine#c-JenOttawa-20241113023700-JenOttawa-20241113023400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:37, 13 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-JenOttawa-20241113023700-JenOttawa-20241113023400"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-JenOttawa-20241113023700-JenOttawa-20241113023400"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Discussion_at_Wikipedia:Redirects_for_discussion/Log/2024_November_11_§_Ro_(antigen)" data-mw-thread-id="h-Discussion_at_Wikipedia:Redirects_for_discussion/Log/2024_November_11_§_Ro_(ant-20241111100100"><span id="Discussion_at_Wikipedia:Redirects_for_discussion.2FLog.2F2024_November_11_.C2.A7_Ro_.28antigen.29"></span><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Discussion_at_Wikipedia:Redirects_for_discussion/Log/2024_November_11_§_Ro_(ant-20241111100100"></span>Discussion at <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Redirects_for_discussion/Log/2024_November_11#Ro_(antigen)" title="Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2024 November 11">Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2024 November 11 § Ro (antigen)</a><span data-mw-comment-end="h-Discussion_at_Wikipedia:Redirects_for_discussion/Log/2024_November_11_§_Ro_(ant-20241111100100"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine&action=edit&section=15" title="Edit section: Discussion at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2024 November 11 § Ro (antigen)"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Shhhnotsoloud-20241111100100-Discussion_at_Wikipedia:Redirects_for_discussion/Log/2024_November_11_§_Ro_(ant"></span><span typeof="mw:File"><span><img alt="" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/65/Symbol_watching_blue_lashes_high_contrast.svg/25px-Symbol_watching_blue_lashes_high_contrast.svg.png" decoding="async" width="25" height="26" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/65/Symbol_watching_blue_lashes_high_contrast.svg/38px-Symbol_watching_blue_lashes_high_contrast.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/65/Symbol_watching_blue_lashes_high_contrast.svg/50px-Symbol_watching_blue_lashes_high_contrast.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="180" data-file-height="185"/></span></span> You are invited to join the discussion at <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Redirects_for_discussion/Log/2024_November_11#Ro_(antigen)" title="Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2024 November 11">Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2024 November 11 § Ro (antigen)</a>. <a href="/wiki/User:Shhhnotsoloud" title="User:Shhhnotsoloud">Shhhnotsoloud</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Shhhnotsoloud" title="User talk:Shhhnotsoloud">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine#c-Shhhnotsoloud-20241111100100-Discussion_at_Wikipedia:Redirects_for_discussion/Log/2024_November_11_§_Ro_(ant" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">10:01, 11 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Shhhnotsoloud-20241111100100-Discussion_at_Wikipedia:Redirects_for_discussion/Log/2024_November_11_§_Ro_(ant"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Shhhnotsoloud-20241111100100-Discussion_at_Wikipedia:Redirects_for_discussion/Log/2024_November_11_§_Ro_(ant"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Ozzie10aaaa-20241113115000-Shhhnotsoloud-20241111100100"></span>commented--<a href="/wiki/User:Ozzie10aaaa" title="User:Ozzie10aaaa">Ozzie10aaaa</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Ozzie10aaaa" title="User talk:Ozzie10aaaa">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine#c-Ozzie10aaaa-20241113115000-Shhhnotsoloud-20241111100100" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">11:50, 13 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Ozzie10aaaa-20241113115000-Shhhnotsoloud-20241111100100"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Ozzie10aaaa-20241113115000-Shhhnotsoloud-20241111100100"></span></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Updating_Stroke" data-mw-thread-id="h-Updating_Stroke-20241112081900"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Updating_Stroke-20241112081900"></span>Updating <a href="/wiki/Stroke" title="Stroke">Stroke</a><span data-mw-comment-end="h-Updating_Stroke-20241112081900"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine&action=edit&section=16" title="Edit section: Updating Stroke"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Rotideypoc41352-20241112081900-Updating_Stroke"></span>Hello, and hope you're well. Last month, the American Heart Association/American Stroke Association published <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://doi.org/10.1161/STR.0000000000000475">"2024 Guideline for the Primary Prevention of Stroke"</a>. The abstract says the 2024 guideline <style data-mw-deduplicate="TemplateStyles:r1248585704">@media screen{html.skin-theme-clientpref-night .mw-parser-output .inline-quote-talk{color:#00B785}}@media screen and (prefers-color-scheme:dark){html.skin-theme-clientpref-os .mw-parser-output .inline-quote-talk{color:#00B785}}.mw-parser-output .inline-quote-talk{font-family:Georgia,"DejaVu Serif",serif;color:#008560;quotes:none}.mw-parser-output .inline-quote-talk-italic{font-family:inherit;font-style:italic}.mw-parser-output .inline-quote-talk-marks{quotes:"\"""\""}</style><q class="inline-quote-talk">replaces replaces the 2014 "Guidelines for the Primary Prevention of Stroke."</q> Is it just me, or does <a href="/wiki/Stroke" title="Stroke">Stroke</a> (or any other article, for that matter) not cite the 2014 guidelines at all? Thanks! <a href="/wiki/User:Rotideypoc41352" title="User:Rotideypoc41352">Rotideypoc41352</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Rotideypoc41352" title="User talk:Rotideypoc41352">talk</a> <b>·</b> <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Rotideypoc41352" title="Special:Contributions/Rotideypoc41352">contribs</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine#c-Rotideypoc41352-20241112081900-Updating_Stroke" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">08:19, 12 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Rotideypoc41352-20241112081900-Updating_Stroke"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Rotideypoc41352-20241112081900-Updating_Stroke"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-JenOttawa-20241113023800-Rotideypoc41352-20241112081900"></span>Thanks for sharing. Do you have a specific edit suggestion? I can take a look at the guideline but if you have an idea of places in the stroke article that needs to be updated with the new recommendations that would be great! <a href="/wiki/User:JenOttawa" title="User:JenOttawa">JenOttawa</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:JenOttawa" title="User talk:JenOttawa">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine#c-JenOttawa-20241113023800-Rotideypoc41352-20241112081900" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:38, 13 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-JenOttawa-20241113023800-Rotideypoc41352-20241112081900"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-JenOttawa-20241113023800-Rotideypoc41352-20241112081900"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Rotideypoc41352-20241113144200-JenOttawa-20241113023800"></span>Not really. My suggestion would've been, "Maybe I could at least replace citations of the old guideline with the current 2024 one," but I think the Stroke article does not cite the old guideline at all! I otherwise have not had a chance to closely compare the article to the current guideline; I actually heard about the update from the <i><a href="/wiki/Associated_Press" title="Associated Press">Associated Press</a></i>, but I don't know if the AP summary is accurate. I know AP itself is accurate <i>and</i> that scientific reporting in even reputable newspapers for laypeople like me can be all over the place. <a href="/wiki/User:Rotideypoc41352" title="User:Rotideypoc41352">Rotideypoc41352</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Rotideypoc41352" title="User talk:Rotideypoc41352">talk</a> <b>·</b> <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Rotideypoc41352" title="Special:Contributions/Rotideypoc41352">contribs</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine#c-Rotideypoc41352-20241113144200-JenOttawa-20241113023800" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">14:42, 13 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Rotideypoc41352-20241113144200-JenOttawa-20241113023800"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Rotideypoc41352-20241113144200-JenOttawa-20241113023800"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Human_penis_concerns" data-mw-thread-id="h-Human_penis_concerns-20241115083800"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Human_penis_concerns-20241115083800"></span>Human penis concerns<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Human_penis_concerns-20241115083800"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine&action=edit&section=17" title="Edit section: Human penis concerns"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Clovermoss-20241115083800-Human_penis_concerns"></span>Hi, I'd like someone way more knowledgeable about biology to take a look at <a href="/wiki/Human_penis#Female_phenotypic_quality" title="Human penis">Human penis#Female phenotypic quality</a>. I raised some concerns on the talk page yesterday, but no one has commented yet. <a href="/wiki/User:Clovermoss" title="User:Clovermoss"><span style="color:darkorchid">Clovermoss</span><span style="color:green">🍀</span></a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Clovermoss" title="User talk:Clovermoss">(talk)</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine#c-Clovermoss-20241115083800-Human_penis_concerns" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">08:38, 15 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Clovermoss-20241115083800-Human_penis_concerns"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Clovermoss-20241115083800-Human_penis_concerns"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-IntentionallyDense-20241115144600-Clovermoss-20241115083800"></span>@<a href="/wiki/User:Clovermoss" title="User:Clovermoss">Clovermoss</a> Thank you for bringing this to our attention! <a href="/wiki/User:IntentionallyDense" title="User:IntentionallyDense"><span style="color:#4e0d55"><b>Intentionally</b></span></a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:IntentionallyDense" title="User talk:IntentionallyDense"><span style="color:#27032b"><b>Dense</b></span></a> <sup>(<a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/IntentionallyDense" title="Special:Contributions/IntentionallyDense"><i>Contribs</i></a>)</sup> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine#c-IntentionallyDense-20241115144600-Clovermoss-20241115083800" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">14:46, 15 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-IntentionallyDense-20241115144600-Clovermoss-20241115083800"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-IntentionallyDense-20241115144600-Clovermoss-20241115083800"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-WhatamIdoing-20241115153700-IntentionallyDense-20241115144600"></span>It looks like we need to strip ancient and primary sources out of that article. <a href="/wiki/User:WhatamIdoing" title="User:WhatamIdoing">WhatamIdoing</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:WhatamIdoing" title="User talk:WhatamIdoing">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine#c-WhatamIdoing-20241115153700-IntentionallyDense-20241115144600" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:37, 15 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-WhatamIdoing-20241115153700-IntentionallyDense-20241115144600"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-WhatamIdoing-20241115153700-IntentionallyDense-20241115144600"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="About_med_school" data-mw-thread-id="h-About_med_school-20241116044300"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-About_med_school-20241116044300"></span>About med school<span data-mw-comment-end="h-About_med_school-20241116044300"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine&action=edit&section=18" title="Edit section: About med school"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-WhatamIdoing-20241116044300-About_med_school"></span>It looks like we need a few med students at <a href="https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata_talk:WikiProject_Medicine#Modelling_internship,_residency,_fellowship_of_physicians" class="extiw" title="wikidata:Wikidata talk:WikiProject Medicine">d:Wikidata talk:WikiProject Medicine#Modelling internship, residency, fellowship of physicians</a> to talk about how education and training of physicians is organized in each country (e.g., is residency "employment"?). Please join the discussion <b>over there</b>. <a href="/wiki/User:WhatamIdoing" title="User:WhatamIdoing">WhatamIdoing</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:WhatamIdoing" title="User talk:WhatamIdoing">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine#c-WhatamIdoing-20241116044300-About_med_school" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">04:43, 16 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-WhatamIdoing-20241116044300-About_med_school"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-WhatamIdoing-20241116044300-About_med_school"></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Good_article_reassessment_for_Consciousness" data-mw-thread-id="h-Good_article_reassessment_for_Consciousness-20241116161500"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Good_article_reassessment_for_Consciousness-20241116161500"></span>Good article reassessment for <a href="/wiki/Consciousness" title="Consciousness">Consciousness</a><span data-mw-comment-end="h-Good_article_reassessment_for_Consciousness-20241116161500"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine&action=edit&section=19" title="Edit section: Good article reassessment for Consciousness"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><a href="/wiki/Consciousness" title="Consciousness"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Z1720-20241116161500-Good_article_reassessment_for_Consciousness"></span>Consciousness</a> has been nominated for a good article reassessment. If you are interested in the discussion, please participate by adding your comments to the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Good_article_reassessment/Consciousness/1" title="Wikipedia:Good article reassessment/Consciousness/1">reassessment page</a>. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, the good article status may be removed from the article. <a href="/wiki/User:Z1720" title="User:Z1720">Z1720</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Z1720" title="User talk:Z1720">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine#c-Z1720-20241116161500-Good_article_reassessment_for_Consciousness" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:15, 16 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Z1720-20241116161500-Good_article_reassessment_for_Consciousness"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Z1720-20241116161500-Good_article_reassessment_for_Consciousness"></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="WHtR_below_0.4,_values_for_anorexia,_emaciated?" data-mw-thread-id="h-WHtR_below_0.4,_values_for_anorexia,_emaciated?-20241117090800"><span id="WHtR_below_0.4.2C_values_for_anorexia.2C_emaciated.3F"></span><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-WHtR_below_0.4,_values_for_anorexia,_emaciated?-20241117090800"></span>WHtR below 0.4, values for anorexia, emaciated?<span data-mw-comment-end="h-WHtR_below_0.4,_values_for_anorexia,_emaciated?-20241117090800"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine&action=edit&section=20" title="Edit section: WHtR below 0.4, values for anorexia, emaciated?"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Uwappa-20241117090800-WHtR_below_0.4,_values_for_anorexia,_emaciated?"></span>At <a href="/wiki/Waist-to-height_ratio#Recommended_boundary_values" title="Waist-to-height ratio">Waist-to-height_ratio#Recommended_boundary_values</a> there are clear boundary values 0.4, 0.5 and 0.6 and above. </p><p>Any boundaries known below WHtR 0.4? E.g. for </p> <ul><li><a href="/wiki/Anorexia_nervosa" title="Anorexia nervosa">Anorexia_nervosa</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Emaciation" title="Emaciation">Emaciation</a></li> <li>what is the lean counterpart of <a href="/wiki/Obesity-associated_morbidity" title="Obesity-associated morbidity">Obesity-associated_morbidity</a>?</li></ul> <p><a href="/wiki/User:Uwappa" title="User:Uwappa">Uwappa</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Uwappa" title="User talk:Uwappa">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine#c-Uwappa-20241117090800-WHtR_below_0.4,_values_for_anorexia,_emaciated?" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">09:08, 17 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Uwappa-20241117090800-WHtR_below_0.4,_values_for_anorexia,_emaciated?"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Uwappa-20241117090800-WHtR_below_0.4,_values_for_anorexia,_emaciated?"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-IntentionallyDense-20241117194600-Uwappa-20241117090800"></span>@<a href="/wiki/User:Uwappa" title="User:Uwappa">Uwappa</a> I’m not fully sure of your question here but I’ll try my best to answer.</dd> <dd>Anorexia is diagnosed based partially off BMI not waist to height ratio although i’m sure you could find some study that gives info on the average WHtR.</dd> <dd><a href="/wiki/Malnutrition" title="Malnutrition">Malnutrition</a>, specifically <a href="/wiki/Malnutrition#Effects" title="Malnutrition">Malnutrition#Effects</a> has information on the health effects of malnutrition. <a href="/wiki/Anorexia_nervosa#Prognosis" title="Anorexia nervosa">Anorexia nervosa#Prognosis</a> goes over the complications of anorexia as well. <a href="/wiki/User:IntentionallyDense" title="User:IntentionallyDense"><span style="color:#4e0d55"><b>Intentionally</b></span></a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:IntentionallyDense" title="User talk:IntentionallyDense"><span style="color:#27032b"><b>Dense</b></span></a> <sup>(<a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/IntentionallyDense" title="Special:Contributions/IntentionallyDense"><i>Contribs</i></a>)</sup> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine#c-IntentionallyDense-20241117194600-Uwappa-20241117090800" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:46, 17 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-IntentionallyDense-20241117194600-Uwappa-20241117090800"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-IntentionallyDense-20241117194600-Uwappa-20241117090800"></span></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-WhatamIdoing-20241117194600-Uwappa-20241117090800"></span>Doing a little quick math, for an average-height woman, it's called <a href="/wiki/Size_zero" title="Size zero">Size zero</a>. The average US woman is 5'4", and 0.4 ratio means a waist size below 25.5", which is a size 0 dress on the <a href="/wiki/Lands%27_End" title="Lands' End">Lands' End</a> website (it will be a size 2 or 4 for some other brands). It's not automatically a medical problem.</dd> <dd>I don't think there is a single lean counterpart, because causes become more important. Anorexia nervosa, BTW, can appear in any size body. It's about what happens in your head, not about the current shape of your body. <a href="/wiki/User:WhatamIdoing" title="User:WhatamIdoing">WhatamIdoing</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:WhatamIdoing" title="User talk:WhatamIdoing">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine#c-WhatamIdoing-20241117194600-Uwappa-20241117090800" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:46, 17 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-WhatamIdoing-20241117194600-Uwappa-20241117090800"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-WhatamIdoing-20241117194600-Uwappa-20241117090800"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Uwappa-20241117210900-WhatamIdoing-20241117194600"></span>Please have a look at: <a href="/wiki/Waist-to-height_ratio#Recommended_boundary_values" title="Waist-to-height ratio">Waist-to-height_ratio#Recommended_boundary_values</a> and <span typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Waist_to_height_ratio_graph.svg" class="mw-file-description"><img src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/7a/Waist_to_height_ratio_graph.svg/200px-Waist_to_height_ratio_graph.svg.png" decoding="async" width="200" height="100" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/7a/Waist_to_height_ratio_graph.svg/300px-Waist_to_height_ratio_graph.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/7a/Waist_to_height_ratio_graph.svg/400px-Waist_to_height_ratio_graph.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="512" data-file-height="256"/></a></span>.</dd> <dd>NICE defines 0.4 as the lower bound of healthy.</dd> <dd>Anything below 0.4 is unspecified, grey in the chart.</dd> <dd>Any source that defines 'yellow' and 'red' boundaries below 0.4?</dd> <dd>Is grey really grey? Unspecified? Really? <a href="/wiki/User:Uwappa" title="User:Uwappa">Uwappa</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Uwappa" title="User talk:Uwappa">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine#c-Uwappa-20241117210900-WhatamIdoing-20241117194600" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:09, 17 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Uwappa-20241117210900-WhatamIdoing-20241117194600"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Uwappa-20241117210900-WhatamIdoing-20241117194600"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-WhatamIdoing-20241117213600-Uwappa-20241117210900"></span>It might be. The thing is, especially for women, two individuals could have the same overall body composition, but because one has an hourglass figure and the other has a straight/rectangular figure, they could fall on different sides of the same line. That doesn't mean that the one with the narrower waist is more or less healthy. The cutoff lines for these things are always somewhat arbitrary. <a href="/wiki/User:WhatamIdoing" title="User:WhatamIdoing">WhatamIdoing</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:WhatamIdoing" title="User talk:WhatamIdoing">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine#c-WhatamIdoing-20241117213600-Uwappa-20241117210900" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:36, 17 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-WhatamIdoing-20241117213600-Uwappa-20241117210900"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-WhatamIdoing-20241117213600-Uwappa-20241117210900"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Uwappa-20241117215200-WhatamIdoing-20241117213600"></span>Yes, I understand all of that, especially at the high end of the scale. That is not my question.</dd> <dd>The question is: Any boundary values known below 0.4, just like above 0.5? <a href="/wiki/User:Uwappa" title="User:Uwappa">Uwappa</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Uwappa" title="User talk:Uwappa">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine#c-Uwappa-20241117215200-WhatamIdoing-20241117213600" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:52, 17 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Uwappa-20241117215200-WhatamIdoing-20241117213600"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Uwappa-20241117215200-WhatamIdoing-20241117213600"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Good_article_reassessment_for_Martha_Hughes_Cannon" data-mw-thread-id="h-Good_article_reassessment_for_Martha_Hughes_Cannon-20241119012300"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Good_article_reassessment_for_Martha_Hughes_Cannon-20241119012300"></span>Good article reassessment for <a href="/wiki/Martha_Hughes_Cannon" title="Martha Hughes Cannon">Martha Hughes Cannon</a><span data-mw-comment-end="h-Good_article_reassessment_for_Martha_Hughes_Cannon-20241119012300"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine&action=edit&section=21" title="Edit section: Good article reassessment for Martha Hughes Cannon"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><a href="/wiki/Martha_Hughes_Cannon" title="Martha Hughes Cannon"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Z1720-20241119012300-Good_article_reassessment_for_Martha_Hughes_Cannon"></span>Martha Hughes Cannon</a> has been nominated for a good article reassessment. If you are interested in the discussion, please participate by adding your comments to the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Good_article_reassessment/Martha_Hughes_Cannon/1" title="Wikipedia:Good article reassessment/Martha Hughes Cannon/1">reassessment page</a>. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, the good article status may be removed from the article. <a href="/wiki/User:Z1720" title="User:Z1720">Z1720</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Z1720" title="User talk:Z1720">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine#c-Z1720-20241119012300-Good_article_reassessment_for_Martha_Hughes_Cannon" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:23, 19 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Z1720-20241119012300-Good_article_reassessment_for_Martha_Hughes_Cannon"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Z1720-20241119012300-Good_article_reassessment_for_Martha_Hughes_Cannon"></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="PCORI_(Patient_Centered_Outcomes_Research_Institute)_as_MEDRS?" data-mw-thread-id="h-PCORI_(Patient_Centered_Outcomes_Research_Institute)_as_MEDRS?-20241121004800"><span id="PCORI_.28Patient_Centered_Outcomes_Research_Institute.29_as_MEDRS.3F"></span><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-PCORI_(Patient_Centered_Outcomes_Research_Institute)_as_MEDRS?-20241121004800"></span>PCORI (Patient Centered Outcomes Research Institute) as MEDRS?<span data-mw-comment-end="h-PCORI_(Patient_Centered_Outcomes_Research_Institute)_as_MEDRS?-20241121004800"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine&action=edit&section=22" title="Edit section: PCORI (Patient Centered Outcomes Research Institute) as MEDRS?"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Whywhenwhohow-20241121004800-PCORI_(Patient_Centered_Outcomes_Research_Institute)_as_MEDRS?"></span>Is there a consensus that using PCORI is an acceptable <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:MEDRS" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:MEDRS">WP:MEDRS</a> source? There is a six-year <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Identifying_reliable_sources_(medicine)/Archive_28#PCORI_(Patient_Centered_Outcomes_Research_Institute):_Evidence_update_for_clinicians_and_patients">old discussion about using PCORI</a> that was <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Whywhenwhohow#Recent_revert_discussion">pointed out to me</a>. -<a href="/wiki/User:Whywhenwhohow" title="User:Whywhenwhohow">Whywhenwhohow</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Whywhenwhohow" title="User talk:Whywhenwhohow">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine#c-Whywhenwhohow-20241121004800-PCORI_(Patient_Centered_Outcomes_Research_Institute)_as_MEDRS?" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:48, 21 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Whywhenwhohow-20241121004800-PCORI_(Patient_Centered_Outcomes_Research_Institute)_as_MEDRS?"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Whywhenwhohow-20241121004800-PCORI_(Patient_Centered_Outcomes_Research_Institute)_as_MEDRS?"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Jaredroach-20241121110800-Whywhenwhohow-20241121004800"></span>I place PCORI in the same category as CDC or NIH. But I have seen edit wars centered on whether or not an NIH medical dictionary was <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:MEDRS" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:MEDRS">WP:MEDRS</a>, and the resolution was not(!), so I suppose these sources in whole or in part may not be <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:MEDRS" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:MEDRS">WP:MEDRS</a>. But if none of their work product is, one starts to get very close to the conclusion that nothing is <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:MEDRS" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:MEDRS">WP:MEDRS</a>. <a href="/wiki/User:Jaredroach" title="User:Jaredroach">Jaredroach</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Jaredroach" title="User talk:Jaredroach">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine#c-Jaredroach-20241121110800-Whywhenwhohow-20241121004800" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">11:08, 21 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Jaredroach-20241121110800-Whywhenwhohow-20241121004800"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Jaredroach-20241121110800-Whywhenwhohow-20241121004800"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-WhatamIdoing-20241121182600-Jaredroach-20241121110800"></span>One of the challenges with "MEDRS" is that there is the ideal (e.g., a peer-reviewed review article published in a highly reputable journal within the last five years) and then there is the good-enough (you don't need an "ideal" source to say that the common cold is caused by a virus). Even if PCORI isn't "ideal", it might be "good enough", depending on what's being said. <a href="/wiki/User:WhatamIdoing" title="User:WhatamIdoing">WhatamIdoing</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:WhatamIdoing" title="User talk:WhatamIdoing">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine#c-WhatamIdoing-20241121182600-Jaredroach-20241121110800" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:26, 21 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-WhatamIdoing-20241121182600-Jaredroach-20241121110800"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-WhatamIdoing-20241121182600-Jaredroach-20241121110800"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Arthur_E._Hertzler" data-mw-thread-id="h-Arthur_E._Hertzler-20241121072800"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Arthur_E._Hertzler-20241121072800"></span>Arthur E. Hertzler<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Arthur_E._Hertzler-20241121072800"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine&action=edit&section=23" title="Edit section: Arthur E. Hertzler"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-The_Anome-20241121072800-Arthur_E._Hertzler"></span>I've started an article on <a href="/wiki/Arthur_E._Hertzler" title="Arthur E. Hertzler">Arthur E. Hertzler</a>. Having started to dig into the numerous references about him, there's much more there than I currently have the time to write about, particularly in material found at <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://union.ku.edu/creation-ku-med">this page</a>. There is also other material that I can see referenced, but can't read because of journal paywalls, such as <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamasurgery/article-abstract/212276">this article</a>, and there's material about him in <i>The Kansas Doctor: A Century of Pioneering</i> by Thomas Neville Bonner, which I also don't have access to. </p><p>Hertzler by all accounts seems to have lived a fascinating life, and was clearly both brilliant and quite a character. Would anyone here be interested in expanding this article? — <a href="/wiki/User:The_Anome" title="User:The Anome">The Anome</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:The_Anome" title="User talk:The Anome">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine#c-The_Anome-20241121072800-Arthur_E._Hertzler" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">07:28, 21 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-The_Anome-20241121072800-Arthur_E._Hertzler"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-The_Anome-20241121072800-Arthur_E._Hertzler"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-WhatamIdoing-20241121183100-The_Anome-20241121072800"></span>The JAMA article is available via <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:The_Wikipedia_Library" title="Wikipedia:The Wikipedia Library">Wikipedia:The Wikipedia Library</a>. After you're logged in, <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://jamanetwork-com.wikipedialibrary.idm.oclc.org/journals/jamasurgery/fullarticle/212276?resultClick=1">this direct link</a> will probably work. <a href="/wiki/User:WhatamIdoing" title="User:WhatamIdoing">WhatamIdoing</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:WhatamIdoing" title="User talk:WhatamIdoing">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine#c-WhatamIdoing-20241121183100-The_Anome-20241121072800" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:31, 21 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-WhatamIdoing-20241121183100-The_Anome-20241121072800"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-WhatamIdoing-20241121183100-The_Anome-20241121072800"></span></dd></dl>    </div><noscript><img src="https://login.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:CentralAutoLogin/start?type=1x1" alt="" width="1" height="1" style="border: none; position: absolute;"></noscript> <div class="printfooter" data-nosnippet="">Retrieved from "<a dir="ltr" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine&oldid=1259350713">https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine&oldid=1259350713</a>"</div></div> <div id="catlinks" class="catlinks" data-mw="interface"><div id="mw-normal-catlinks" class="mw-normal-catlinks"><a href="/wiki/Help:Category" title="Help:Category">Category</a>: <ul><li><a href="/wiki/Category:Wikipedia_pages_referenced_by_the_press" title="Category:Wikipedia pages referenced by the press">Wikipedia pages referenced by the press</a></li></ul></div></div> </div> </main> </div> <div class="mw-footer-container"> <footer id="footer" class="mw-footer" > <ul id="footer-info"> <li id="footer-info-lastmod"> This page was last edited on 24 November 2024, at 18:22<span class="anonymous-show"> (UTC)</span>.</li> <li id="footer-info-copyright">Text is available under the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Text_of_the_Creative_Commons_Attribution-ShareAlike_4.0_International_License" title="Wikipedia:Text of the Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike 4.0 International License">Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike 4.0 License</a>; additional terms may apply. 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