CINXE.COM

<!DOCTYPE html> <html class="client-nojs vector-feature-language-in-header-enabled vector-feature-language-in-main-page-header-disabled vector-feature-sticky-header-disabled vector-feature-page-tools-pinned-disabled vector-feature-toc-pinned-clientpref-1 vector-feature-main-menu-pinned-disabled vector-feature-limited-width-clientpref-1 vector-feature-limited-width-content-enabled vector-feature-custom-font-size-clientpref-1 vector-feature-appearance-pinned-clientpref-1 vector-feature-night-mode-enabled skin-theme-clientpref-day vector-toc-available" lang="en" dir="ltr"> <head> <meta charset="UTF-8"> <title>Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Medicine/Archive 136 - Wikipedia</title> <script>(function(){var className="client-js vector-feature-language-in-header-enabled vector-feature-language-in-main-page-header-disabled vector-feature-sticky-header-disabled vector-feature-page-tools-pinned-disabled vector-feature-toc-pinned-clientpref-1 vector-feature-main-menu-pinned-disabled vector-feature-limited-width-clientpref-1 vector-feature-limited-width-content-enabled vector-feature-custom-font-size-clientpref-1 vector-feature-appearance-pinned-clientpref-1 vector-feature-night-mode-enabled skin-theme-clientpref-day vector-toc-available";var cookie=document.cookie.match(/(?:^|; )enwikimwclientpreferences=([^;]+)/);if(cookie){cookie[1].split('%2C').forEach(function(pref){className=className.replace(new RegExp('(^| )'+pref.replace(/-clientpref-\w+$|[^\w-]+/g,'')+'-clientpref-\\w+( |$)'),'$1'+pref+'$2');});}document.documentElement.className=className;}());RLCONF={"wgBreakFrames":false,"wgSeparatorTransformTable":["",""],"wgDigitTransformTable":["",""],"wgDefaultDateFormat":"dmy", "wgMonthNames":["","January","February","March","April","May","June","July","August","September","October","November","December"],"wgRequestId":"dde720a7-7ff0-4904-aa5a-c2d8b2c8835f","wgCanonicalNamespace":"Project_talk","wgCanonicalSpecialPageName":false,"wgNamespaceNumber":5,"wgPageName":"Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_136","wgTitle":"WikiProject Medicine/Archive 136","wgCurRevisionId":1189628412,"wgRevisionId":1189628412,"wgArticleId":63991061,"wgIsArticle":true,"wgIsRedirect":false,"wgAction":"view","wgUserName":null,"wgUserGroups":["*"],"wgCategories":[],"wgPageViewLanguage":"en","wgPageContentLanguage":"en","wgPageContentModel":"wikitext","wgRelevantPageName":"Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_136","wgRelevantArticleId":63991061,"wgIsProbablyEditable":true,"wgRelevantPageIsProbablyEditable":true,"wgRestrictionEdit":[],"wgRestrictionMove":[],"wgNoticeProject":"wikipedia","wgCiteReferencePreviewsActive":false,"wgFlaggedRevsParams":{"tags":{"status":{"levels": 1}}},"wgMediaViewerOnClick":true,"wgMediaViewerEnabledByDefault":true,"wgPopupsFlags":0,"wgVisualEditor":{"pageLanguageCode":"en","pageLanguageDir":"ltr","pageVariantFallbacks":"en"},"wgMFDisplayWikibaseDescriptions":{"search":true,"watchlist":true,"tagline":false,"nearby":true},"wgWMESchemaEditAttemptStepOversample":false,"wgWMEPageLength":200000,"wgRelatedArticlesCompat":[],"wgEditSubmitButtonLabelPublish":true,"wgDiscussionToolsFeaturesEnabled":{"replytool":false,"newtopictool":true,"sourcemodetoolbar":true,"topicsubscription":false,"autotopicsub":false,"visualenhancements":false,"visualenhancements_reply":false,"visualenhancements_pageframe":false},"wgDiscussionToolsFallbackEditMode":"source","wgULSPosition":"interlanguage","wgULSisCompactLinksEnabled":false,"wgVector2022LanguageInHeader":true,"wgULSisLanguageSelectorEmpty":true,"wgCheckUserClientHintsHeadersJsApi":["brands","architecture","bitness","fullVersionList","mobile","model","platform","platformVersion"], "GEHomepageSuggestedEditsEnableTopics":true,"wgGETopicsMatchModeEnabled":false,"wgGEStructuredTaskRejectionReasonTextInputEnabled":false,"wgGELevelingUpEnabledForUser":false};RLSTATE={"ext.globalCssJs.user.styles":"ready","site.styles":"ready","user.styles":"ready","ext.globalCssJs.user":"ready","user":"ready","user.options":"loading","ext.cite.styles":"ready","ext.tmh.player.styles":"ready","ext.discussionTools.init.styles":"ready","skins.vector.search.codex.styles":"ready","skins.vector.styles":"ready","skins.vector.icons":"ready","jquery.makeCollapsible.styles":"ready","ext.wikimediamessages.styles":"ready","ext.visualEditor.desktopArticleTarget.noscript":"ready","ext.uls.interlanguage":"ready","ext.wikimediaBadges":"ready"};RLPAGEMODULES=["ext.cite.ux-enhancements","mediawiki.page.media","ext.tmh.player","site","mediawiki.page.ready","jquery.makeCollapsible","mediawiki.toc","skins.vector.js","ext.centralNotice.geoIP","ext.centralNotice.startUp","ext.gadget.ReferenceTooltips", "ext.gadget.switcher","ext.urlShortener.toolbar","ext.centralauth.centralautologin","mmv.bootstrap","ext.popups","ext.visualEditor.desktopArticleTarget.init","ext.visualEditor.targetLoader","ext.echo.centralauth","ext.discussionTools.init","ext.eventLogging","ext.wikimediaEvents","ext.navigationTiming","ext.uls.interface","ext.cx.eventlogging.campaigns","ext.checkUser.clientHints"];</script> <script>(RLQ=window.RLQ||[]).push(function(){mw.loader.impl(function(){return["user.options@12s5i",function($,jQuery,require,module){mw.user.tokens.set({"patrolToken":"+\\","watchToken":"+\\","csrfToken":"+\\"}); }];});});</script> <link rel="stylesheet" href="/w/load.php?lang=en&modules=ext.cite.styles%7Cext.discussionTools.init.styles%7Cext.tmh.player.styles%7Cext.uls.interlanguage%7Cext.visualEditor.desktopArticleTarget.noscript%7Cext.wikimediaBadges%7Cext.wikimediamessages.styles%7Cjquery.makeCollapsible.styles%7Cskins.vector.icons%2Cstyles%7Cskins.vector.search.codex.styles&only=styles&skin=vector-2022"> <script async="" src="/w/load.php?lang=en&modules=startup&only=scripts&raw=1&skin=vector-2022"></script> <meta name="ResourceLoaderDynamicStyles" content=""> <link rel="stylesheet" href="/w/load.php?lang=en&modules=site.styles&only=styles&skin=vector-2022"> <meta name="generator" content="MediaWiki 1.44.0-wmf.5"> <meta name="referrer" content="origin"> <meta name="referrer" content="origin-when-cross-origin"> <meta name="robots" content="max-image-preview:standard"> <meta name="format-detection" content="telephone=no"> <meta name="viewport" content="width=1120"> <meta property="og:title" content="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Medicine/Archive 136 - Wikipedia"> <meta property="og:type" content="website"> <link rel="preconnect" href="//upload.wikimedia.org"> <link rel="alternate" media="only screen and (max-width: 640px)" href="//en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_136"> <link rel="alternate" type="application/x-wiki" title="Edit this page" href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_136&action=edit"> <link rel="apple-touch-icon" href="/static/apple-touch/wikipedia.png"> <link rel="icon" href="/static/favicon/wikipedia.ico"> <link rel="search" type="application/opensearchdescription+xml" href="/w/rest.php/v1/search" title="Wikipedia (en)"> <link rel="EditURI" type="application/rsd+xml" href="//en.wikipedia.org/w/api.php?action=rsd"> <link rel="canonical" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_136"> <link rel="license" href="https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/deed.en"> <link rel="alternate" type="application/atom+xml" title="Wikipedia Atom feed" href="/w/index.php?title=Special:RecentChanges&feed=atom"> <link rel="dns-prefetch" href="//meta.wikimedia.org" /> <link rel="dns-prefetch" href="//login.wikimedia.org"> </head> <body class="ext-discussiontools-newtopictool-enabled ext-discussiontools-sourcemodetoolbar-enabled skin--responsive skin-vector skin-vector-search-vue mediawiki ltr sitedir-ltr mw-hide-empty-elt ns-5 ns-talk mw-editable page-Wikipedia_talk_WikiProject_Medicine_Archive_136 rootpage-Wikipedia_talk_WikiProject_Medicine skin-vector-2022 action-view"><a class="mw-jump-link" href="#bodyContent">Jump to content</a> <div class="vector-header-container"> <header class="vector-header mw-header"> <div class="vector-header-start"> <nav class="vector-main-menu-landmark" aria-label="Site"> <div id="vector-main-menu-dropdown" class="vector-dropdown vector-main-menu-dropdown vector-button-flush-left vector-button-flush-right" > <input type="checkbox" id="vector-main-menu-dropdown-checkbox" role="button" aria-haspopup="true" data-event-name="ui.dropdown-vector-main-menu-dropdown" class="vector-dropdown-checkbox " aria-label="Main menu" > <label id="vector-main-menu-dropdown-label" for="vector-main-menu-dropdown-checkbox" class="vector-dropdown-label cdx-button cdx-button--fake-button cdx-button--fake-button--enabled cdx-button--weight-quiet cdx-button--icon-only " aria-hidden="true" ><span class="vector-icon mw-ui-icon-menu mw-ui-icon-wikimedia-menu"></span> <span class="vector-dropdown-label-text">Main menu</span> </label> <div class="vector-dropdown-content"> <div id="vector-main-menu-unpinned-container" class="vector-unpinned-container"> <div id="vector-main-menu" class="vector-main-menu vector-pinnable-element"> <div class="vector-pinnable-header vector-main-menu-pinnable-header vector-pinnable-header-unpinned" data-feature-name="main-menu-pinned" data-pinnable-element-id="vector-main-menu" data-pinned-container-id="vector-main-menu-pinned-container" data-unpinned-container-id="vector-main-menu-unpinned-container" > <div class="vector-pinnable-header-label">Main menu</div> <button class="vector-pinnable-header-toggle-button vector-pinnable-header-pin-button" data-event-name="pinnable-header.vector-main-menu.pin">move to sidebar</button> <button class="vector-pinnable-header-toggle-button vector-pinnable-header-unpin-button" data-event-name="pinnable-header.vector-main-menu.unpin">hide</button> </div> <div id="p-navigation" class="vector-menu mw-portlet mw-portlet-navigation" > <div class="vector-menu-heading"> Navigation </div> <div class="vector-menu-content"> <ul class="vector-menu-content-list"> <li id="n-mainpage-description" class="mw-list-item"><a href="/wiki/Main_Page" title="Visit the main page [z]" accesskey="z"><span>Main page</span></a></li><li id="n-contents" class="mw-list-item"><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Contents" title="Guides to browsing Wikipedia"><span>Contents</span></a></li><li id="n-currentevents" class="mw-list-item"><a href="/wiki/Portal:Current_events" title="Articles related to current events"><span>Current events</span></a></li><li id="n-randompage" class="mw-list-item"><a href="/wiki/Special:Random" title="Visit a randomly selected article [x]" accesskey="x"><span>Random article</span></a></li><li id="n-aboutsite" class="mw-list-item"><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:About" title="Learn about Wikipedia and how it works"><span>About Wikipedia</span></a></li><li id="n-contactpage" class="mw-list-item"><a href="//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Contact_us" title="How to contact Wikipedia"><span>Contact us</span></a></li> </ul> </div> </div> <div id="p-interaction" class="vector-menu mw-portlet mw-portlet-interaction" > <div class="vector-menu-heading"> Contribute </div> <div class="vector-menu-content"> <ul class="vector-menu-content-list"> <li id="n-help" class="mw-list-item"><a href="/wiki/Help:Contents" title="Guidance on how to use and edit Wikipedia"><span>Help</span></a></li><li id="n-introduction" class="mw-list-item"><a href="/wiki/Help:Introduction" title="Learn how to edit Wikipedia"><span>Learn to edit</span></a></li><li id="n-portal" class="mw-list-item"><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Community_portal" title="The hub for editors"><span>Community portal</span></a></li><li id="n-recentchanges" class="mw-list-item"><a href="/wiki/Special:RecentChanges" title="A list of recent changes to Wikipedia [r]" accesskey="r"><span>Recent changes</span></a></li><li id="n-upload" class="mw-list-item"><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:File_upload_wizard" title="Add images or other media for use on Wikipedia"><span>Upload file</span></a></li> </ul> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </nav> <a href="/wiki/Main_Page" class="mw-logo"> <img class="mw-logo-icon" src="/static/images/icons/wikipedia.png" alt="" aria-hidden="true" height="50" width="50"> <span class="mw-logo-container skin-invert"> <img class="mw-logo-wordmark" alt="Wikipedia" src="/static/images/mobile/copyright/wikipedia-wordmark-en.svg" style="width: 7.5em; height: 1.125em;"> <img class="mw-logo-tagline" alt="The Free Encyclopedia" src="/static/images/mobile/copyright/wikipedia-tagline-en.svg" width="117" height="13" style="width: 7.3125em; height: 0.8125em;"> </span> </a> </div> <div class="vector-header-end"> <div id="p-search" role="search" class="vector-search-box-vue vector-search-box-collapses vector-search-box-show-thumbnail vector-search-box-auto-expand-width vector-search-box"> <a href="/wiki/Special:Search" class="cdx-button cdx-button--fake-button cdx-button--fake-button--enabled cdx-button--weight-quiet cdx-button--icon-only search-toggle" title="Search Wikipedia [f]" accesskey="f"><span class="vector-icon mw-ui-icon-search mw-ui-icon-wikimedia-search"></span> <span>Search</span> </a> <div class="vector-typeahead-search-container"> <div class="cdx-typeahead-search cdx-typeahead-search--show-thumbnail cdx-typeahead-search--auto-expand-width"> <form action="/w/index.php" id="searchform" class="cdx-search-input cdx-search-input--has-end-button"> <div id="simpleSearch" class="cdx-search-input__input-wrapper" data-search-loc="header-moved"> <div class="cdx-text-input cdx-text-input--has-start-icon"> <input class="cdx-text-input__input" type="search" name="search" placeholder="Search Wikipedia" aria-label="Search Wikipedia" autocapitalize="sentences" title="Search Wikipedia [f]" accesskey="f" id="searchInput" > <span class="cdx-text-input__icon cdx-text-input__start-icon"></span> </div> <input type="hidden" name="title" value="Special:Search"> </div> <button class="cdx-button cdx-search-input__end-button">Search</button> </form> </div> </div> </div> <nav class="vector-user-links vector-user-links-wide" aria-label="Personal tools"> <div class="vector-user-links-main"> <div id="p-vector-user-menu-preferences" class="vector-menu mw-portlet emptyPortlet" > <div class="vector-menu-content"> <ul class="vector-menu-content-list"> </ul> </div> </div> <div id="p-vector-user-menu-userpage" class="vector-menu mw-portlet emptyPortlet" > <div class="vector-menu-content"> <ul class="vector-menu-content-list"> </ul> </div> </div> <nav class="vector-appearance-landmark" aria-label="Appearance"> <div id="vector-appearance-dropdown" class="vector-dropdown " title="Change the appearance of the page's font size, width, and color" > <input type="checkbox" id="vector-appearance-dropdown-checkbox" role="button" aria-haspopup="true" data-event-name="ui.dropdown-vector-appearance-dropdown" class="vector-dropdown-checkbox " aria-label="Appearance" > <label id="vector-appearance-dropdown-label" for="vector-appearance-dropdown-checkbox" class="vector-dropdown-label cdx-button cdx-button--fake-button cdx-button--fake-button--enabled cdx-button--weight-quiet cdx-button--icon-only " aria-hidden="true" ><span class="vector-icon mw-ui-icon-appearance mw-ui-icon-wikimedia-appearance"></span> <span class="vector-dropdown-label-text">Appearance</span> </label> <div class="vector-dropdown-content"> <div id="vector-appearance-unpinned-container" class="vector-unpinned-container"> </div> </div> </div> </nav> <div id="p-vector-user-menu-notifications" class="vector-menu mw-portlet emptyPortlet" > <div class="vector-menu-content"> <ul class="vector-menu-content-list"> </ul> </div> </div> <div id="p-vector-user-menu-overflow" class="vector-menu mw-portlet" > <div class="vector-menu-content"> <ul class="vector-menu-content-list"> <li id="pt-sitesupport-2" class="user-links-collapsible-item mw-list-item user-links-collapsible-item"><a data-mw="interface" href="https://donate.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:FundraiserRedirector?utm_source=donate&utm_medium=sidebar&utm_campaign=C13_en.wikipedia.org&uselang=en" class=""><span>Donate</span></a> </li> <li id="pt-createaccount-2" class="user-links-collapsible-item mw-list-item user-links-collapsible-item"><a data-mw="interface" href="/w/index.php?title=Special:CreateAccount&returnto=Wikipedia+talk%3AWikiProject+Medicine%2FArchive+136" title="You are encouraged to create an account and log in; however, it is not mandatory" class=""><span>Create account</span></a> </li> <li id="pt-login-2" class="user-links-collapsible-item mw-list-item user-links-collapsible-item"><a data-mw="interface" href="/w/index.php?title=Special:UserLogin&returnto=Wikipedia+talk%3AWikiProject+Medicine%2FArchive+136" title="You're encouraged to log in; however, it's not mandatory. [o]" accesskey="o" class=""><span>Log in</span></a> </li> </ul> </div> </div> </div> <div id="vector-user-links-dropdown" class="vector-dropdown vector-user-menu vector-button-flush-right vector-user-menu-logged-out" title="Log in and more options" > <input type="checkbox" id="vector-user-links-dropdown-checkbox" role="button" aria-haspopup="true" data-event-name="ui.dropdown-vector-user-links-dropdown" class="vector-dropdown-checkbox " aria-label="Personal tools" > <label id="vector-user-links-dropdown-label" for="vector-user-links-dropdown-checkbox" class="vector-dropdown-label cdx-button cdx-button--fake-button cdx-button--fake-button--enabled cdx-button--weight-quiet cdx-button--icon-only " aria-hidden="true" ><span class="vector-icon mw-ui-icon-ellipsis mw-ui-icon-wikimedia-ellipsis"></span> <span class="vector-dropdown-label-text">Personal tools</span> </label> <div class="vector-dropdown-content"> <div id="p-personal" class="vector-menu mw-portlet mw-portlet-personal user-links-collapsible-item" title="User menu" > <div class="vector-menu-content"> <ul class="vector-menu-content-list"> <li id="pt-sitesupport" class="user-links-collapsible-item mw-list-item"><a href="https://donate.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:FundraiserRedirector?utm_source=donate&utm_medium=sidebar&utm_campaign=C13_en.wikipedia.org&uselang=en"><span>Donate</span></a></li><li id="pt-createaccount" class="user-links-collapsible-item mw-list-item"><a href="/w/index.php?title=Special:CreateAccount&returnto=Wikipedia+talk%3AWikiProject+Medicine%2FArchive+136" title="You are encouraged to create an account and log in; however, it is not mandatory"><span class="vector-icon mw-ui-icon-userAdd mw-ui-icon-wikimedia-userAdd"></span> <span>Create account</span></a></li><li id="pt-login" class="user-links-collapsible-item mw-list-item"><a href="/w/index.php?title=Special:UserLogin&returnto=Wikipedia+talk%3AWikiProject+Medicine%2FArchive+136" title="You're encouraged to log in; however, it's not mandatory. [o]" accesskey="o"><span class="vector-icon mw-ui-icon-logIn mw-ui-icon-wikimedia-logIn"></span> <span>Log in</span></a></li> </ul> </div> </div> <div id="p-user-menu-anon-editor" class="vector-menu mw-portlet mw-portlet-user-menu-anon-editor" > <div class="vector-menu-heading"> Pages for logged out editors <a href="/wiki/Help:Introduction" aria-label="Learn more about editing"><span>learn more</span></a> </div> <div class="vector-menu-content"> <ul class="vector-menu-content-list"> <li id="pt-anoncontribs" class="mw-list-item"><a href="/wiki/Special:MyContributions" title="A list of edits made from this IP address [y]" accesskey="y"><span>Contributions</span></a></li><li id="pt-anontalk" class="mw-list-item"><a href="/wiki/Special:MyTalk" title="Discussion about edits from this IP address [n]" accesskey="n"><span>Talk</span></a></li> </ul> </div> </div> </div> </div> </nav> </div> </header> </div> <div class="mw-page-container"> <div class="mw-page-container-inner"> <div class="vector-sitenotice-container"> <div id="siteNotice"></div> </div> <div class="vector-column-start"> <div class="vector-main-menu-container"> <div id="mw-navigation"> <nav id="mw-panel" class="vector-main-menu-landmark" aria-label="Site"> <div id="vector-main-menu-pinned-container" class="vector-pinned-container"> </div> </nav> </div> </div> <div class="vector-sticky-pinned-container"> <nav id="mw-panel-toc" aria-label="Contents" data-event-name="ui.sidebar-toc" class="mw-table-of-contents-container vector-toc-landmark"> <div id="vector-toc-pinned-container" class="vector-pinned-container"> <div id="vector-toc" class="vector-toc vector-pinnable-element"> <div class="vector-pinnable-header vector-toc-pinnable-header vector-pinnable-header-pinned" data-feature-name="toc-pinned" data-pinnable-element-id="vector-toc" > <h2 class="vector-pinnable-header-label">Contents</h2> <button class="vector-pinnable-header-toggle-button vector-pinnable-header-pin-button" data-event-name="pinnable-header.vector-toc.pin">move to sidebar</button> <button class="vector-pinnable-header-toggle-button vector-pinnable-header-unpin-button" data-event-name="pinnable-header.vector-toc.unpin">hide</button> </div> <ul class="vector-toc-contents" id="mw-panel-toc-list"> <li id="toc-mw-content-text" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a href="#" class="vector-toc-link"> <div class="vector-toc-text">(Top)</div> </a> </li> <li id="toc-Tuberculosis" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Tuberculosis"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">1</span> <span>Tuberculosis</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">4 comments</span> <ul id="toc-Tuberculosis-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Biomedical_material_based_on_non-MEDRS_sourcing" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Biomedical_material_based_on_non-MEDRS_sourcing"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">2</span> <span>Biomedical material based on non-MEDRS sourcing</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">7 comments</span> <ul id="toc-Biomedical_material_based_on_non-MEDRS_sourcing-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Online_medical_symposium_-_COVID-19_-_Wiki_NYC" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Online_medical_symposium_-_COVID-19_-_Wiki_NYC"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">3</span> <span>Online medical symposium - COVID-19 - Wiki NYC</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">3 comments</span> <ul id="toc-Online_medical_symposium_-_COVID-19_-_Wiki_NYC-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-A_thank_you" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#A_thank_you"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">4</span> <span>A thank you</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">5 comments</span> <ul id="toc-A_thank_you-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Shepard_Hurwitz" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Shepard_Hurwitz"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">5</span> <span>Shepard Hurwitz</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">2 comments</span> <ul id="toc-Shepard_Hurwitz-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Image_needing_MEDRS?" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Image_needing_MEDRS?"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">6</span> <span>Image needing MEDRS?</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">22 comments</span> <ul id="toc-Image_needing_MEDRS?-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Lente_insulin_Comment" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Lente_insulin_Comment"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">7</span> <span>Lente insulin Comment</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">8 comments</span> <ul id="toc-Lente_insulin_Comment-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Paediatric_multisystem_inflammatory_syndrome" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Paediatric_multisystem_inflammatory_syndrome"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">8</span> <span>Paediatric multisystem inflammatory syndrome</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">3 comments</span> <ul id="toc-Paediatric_multisystem_inflammatory_syndrome-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Operation_Warp_Speed" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Operation_Warp_Speed"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">9</span> <span>Operation Warp Speed</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">3 comments</span> <ul id="toc-Operation_Warp_Speed-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Circumcision_etc" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Circumcision_etc"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">10</span> <span>Circumcision etc</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">11 comments</span> <ul id="toc-Circumcision_etc-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-What_are_Immunoglobulins_(Antibodies)_and_its_role_in_Covid-19_neutralization?" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#What_are_Immunoglobulins_(Antibodies)_and_its_role_in_Covid-19_neutralization?"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">11</span> <span>What are Immunoglobulins (Antibodies) and its role in Covid-19 neutralization?</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">5 comments</span> <ul id="toc-What_are_Immunoglobulins_(Antibodies)_and_its_role_in_Covid-19_neutralization?-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-RFC_on_pharmaceutical_drug_prices_/currently_at_ArbCom" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#RFC_on_pharmaceutical_drug_prices_/currently_at_ArbCom"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">12</span> <span>RFC on pharmaceutical drug prices /<span>currently at ArbCom</span></span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">135 comments</span> <button aria-controls="toc-RFC_on_pharmaceutical_drug_prices_/currently_at_ArbCom-sublist" class="cdx-button cdx-button--weight-quiet cdx-button--icon-only vector-toc-toggle"> <span class="vector-icon mw-ui-icon-wikimedia-expand"></span> <span>Toggle RFC on pharmaceutical drug prices /<span>currently at ArbCom</span> subsection</span> </button> <ul id="toc-RFC_on_pharmaceutical_drug_prices_/currently_at_ArbCom-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> <li id="toc-Concerns_about_timing_of_this_discussion_due_to_the_COVID-19_pandemic" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-2"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Concerns_about_timing_of_this_discussion_due_to_the_COVID-19_pandemic"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">12.1</span> <span>Concerns about timing of this discussion due to the COVID-19 pandemic</span> </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Concerns_about_timing_of_this_discussion_due_to_the_COVID-19_pandemic-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Uncertainties_about_bias_//_Implementation" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-2"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Uncertainties_about_bias_//_Implementation"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">12.2</span> <span>Uncertainties about bias // Implementation</span> </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Uncertainties_about_bias_//_Implementation-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Implementation" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-2"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Implementation"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">12.3</span> <span>Implementation</span> </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Implementation-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Housekeeping" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-2"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Housekeeping"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">12.4</span> <span>Housekeeping</span> </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Housekeeping-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Conclusions" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-2"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Conclusions"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">12.5</span> <span>Conclusions</span> </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Conclusions-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Drug_price_databases_rejected_as_the_sole_source" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-2"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Drug_price_databases_rejected_as_the_sole_source"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">12.6</span> <span>Drug price databases rejected as the sole source</span> </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Drug_price_databases_rejected_as_the_sole_source-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Simvastatin" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-2"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Simvastatin"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">12.7</span> <span>Simvastatin</span> </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Simvastatin-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> <li id="toc-RfC" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-3"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#RfC"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">12.7.1</span> <span>RfC</span> </div> </a> <ul id="toc-RfC-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Atorvastatin" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-2"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Atorvastatin"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">12.8</span> <span>Atorvastatin</span> </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Atorvastatin-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-List_of_pharmaceutical_prices_edited" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-2"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#List_of_pharmaceutical_prices_edited"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">12.9</span> <span>List of pharmaceutical prices edited</span> </div> </a> <ul id="toc-List_of_pharmaceutical_prices_edited-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Ethosuximide" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-2"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Ethosuximide"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">12.10</span> <span>Ethosuximide</span> </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Ethosuximide-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Pyrimethamine" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-2"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Pyrimethamine"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">12.11</span> <span>Pyrimethamine</span> </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Pyrimethamine-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Trimethoprim/sulfamethoxazole" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-2"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Trimethoprim/sulfamethoxazole"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">12.12</span> <span>Trimethoprim/sulfamethoxazole</span> </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Trimethoprim/sulfamethoxazole-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Notice_of_ArbCom_Request" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-2"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Notice_of_ArbCom_Request"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">12.13</span> <span>Notice of ArbCom Request</span> </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Notice_of_ArbCom_Request-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Propose_postponement_due_to_COVID-19" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-2"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Propose_postponement_due_to_COVID-19"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">12.14</span> <span>Propose postponement due to COVID-19</span> </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Propose_postponement_due_to_COVID-19-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Next_steps?" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-2"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Next_steps?"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">12.15</span> <span>Next steps?</span> </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Next_steps?-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Areas_where_clarification_and_further_discussion_may_be_needed" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-2"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Areas_where_clarification_and_further_discussion_may_be_needed"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">12.16</span> <span>Areas where clarification and further discussion may be needed</span> </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Areas_where_clarification_and_further_discussion_may_be_needed-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Scope_of_problem" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-2"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Scope_of_problem"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">12.17</span> <span>Scope of problem</span> </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Scope_of_problem-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Recent_additions/expansions_of_pricing_information" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-2"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Recent_additions/expansions_of_pricing_information"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">12.18</span> <span>Recent additions/expansions of pricing information</span> </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Recent_additions/expansions_of_pricing_information-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-List_of_plants_used_in_herbalism" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#List_of_plants_used_in_herbalism"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">13</span> <span>List of plants used in herbalism</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">4 comments</span> <ul id="toc-List_of_plants_used_in_herbalism-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Nascent_iodine_(dietary_supplement)#Criticism" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Nascent_iodine_(dietary_supplement)#Criticism"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">14</span> <span>Nascent_iodine_(dietary_supplement)#Criticism</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">4 comments</span> <ul id="toc-Nascent_iodine_(dietary_supplement)#Criticism-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Johann_Lahodny" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Johann_Lahodny"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">15</span> <span>Johann Lahodny</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">2 comments</span> <ul id="toc-Johann_Lahodny-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Patricia_Stallings" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Patricia_Stallings"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">16</span> <span>Patricia Stallings</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">6 comments</span> <ul id="toc-Patricia_Stallings-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Category:Medical_outbreaks_by_country_has_been_nominated_for_renaming" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Category:Medical_outbreaks_by_country_has_been_nominated_for_renaming"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">17</span> <span>Category:Medical outbreaks by country has been nominated for renaming</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">2 comments</span> <ul id="toc-Category:Medical_outbreaks_by_country_has_been_nominated_for_renaming-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Insulin_pen" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Insulin_pen"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">18</span> <span>Insulin pen</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">7 comments</span> <ul id="toc-Insulin_pen-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Category:Epidemics_has_been_nominated_for_merging_to_Category:Disease_outbreaks,_along_with_similar_merges_and_renamings_for_its_sub-categories." class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Category:Epidemics_has_been_nominated_for_merging_to_Category:Disease_outbreaks,_along_with_similar_merges_and_renamings_for_its_sub-categories."> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">19</span> <span>Category:Epidemics has been nominated for merging to Category:Disease outbreaks, along with similar merges and renamings for its sub-categories.</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">2 comments</span> <ul id="toc-Category:Epidemics_has_been_nominated_for_merging_to_Category:Disease_outbreaks,_along_with_similar_merges_and_renamings_for_its_sub-categories.-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> </ul> </div> </div> </nav> </div> </div> <div class="mw-content-container"> <main id="content" class="mw-body"> <header class="mw-body-header vector-page-titlebar"> <nav aria-label="Contents" class="vector-toc-landmark"> <div id="vector-page-titlebar-toc" class="vector-dropdown vector-page-titlebar-toc vector-button-flush-left" > <input type="checkbox" id="vector-page-titlebar-toc-checkbox" role="button" aria-haspopup="true" data-event-name="ui.dropdown-vector-page-titlebar-toc" class="vector-dropdown-checkbox " aria-label="Toggle the table of contents" > <label id="vector-page-titlebar-toc-label" for="vector-page-titlebar-toc-checkbox" class="vector-dropdown-label cdx-button cdx-button--fake-button cdx-button--fake-button--enabled cdx-button--weight-quiet cdx-button--icon-only " aria-hidden="true" ><span class="vector-icon mw-ui-icon-listBullet mw-ui-icon-wikimedia-listBullet"></span> <span class="vector-dropdown-label-text">Toggle the table of contents</span> </label> <div class="vector-dropdown-content"> <div id="vector-page-titlebar-toc-unpinned-container" class="vector-unpinned-container"> </div> </div> </div> </nav> <h1 id="firstHeading" class="firstHeading mw-first-heading"><span class="mw-page-title-namespace">Wikipedia talk</span><span class="mw-page-title-separator">:</span><span class="mw-page-title-main">WikiProject Medicine/Archive 136</span></h1> <div id="p-lang-btn" class="vector-dropdown mw-portlet mw-portlet-lang mw-portlet-lang-icon-only" > <input type="checkbox" id="p-lang-btn-checkbox" role="button" aria-haspopup="true" data-event-name="ui.dropdown-p-lang-btn" class="vector-dropdown-checkbox mw-interlanguage-selector-empty" aria-label="This article exist only in this language. Add the article for other languages" > <label id="p-lang-btn-label" for="p-lang-btn-checkbox" class="vector-dropdown-label cdx-button cdx-button--fake-button cdx-button--fake-button--enabled cdx-button--weight-quiet cdx-button--icon-only mw-portlet-lang-heading-empty" aria-hidden="true" ><span class="vector-icon mw-ui-icon-language mw-ui-icon-wikimedia-language"></span> <span class="vector-dropdown-label-text">Add languages</span> </label> <div class="vector-dropdown-content"> <div class="mw-portlet-empty-language-selector-body"> Page contents not supported in other languages. </div> </div> </div> </header> <div class="vector-page-toolbar"> <div class="vector-page-toolbar-container"> <div id="left-navigation"> <nav aria-label="Namespaces"> <div id="p-associated-pages" class="vector-menu vector-menu-tabs mw-portlet mw-portlet-associated-pages" > <div class="vector-menu-content"> <ul class="vector-menu-content-list"> <li id="ca-nstab-project" class="new vector-tab-noicon mw-list-item"><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_136&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="View the project page (page does not exist) [c]" accesskey="c"><span>Project page</span></a></li><li id="ca-talk" class="selected vector-tab-noicon mw-list-item"><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_136" rel="discussion" title="Discuss improvements to the content page [t]" accesskey="t"><span>Talk</span></a></li> </ul> </div> </div> <div id="vector-variants-dropdown" class="vector-dropdown emptyPortlet" > <input type="checkbox" id="vector-variants-dropdown-checkbox" role="button" aria-haspopup="true" data-event-name="ui.dropdown-vector-variants-dropdown" class="vector-dropdown-checkbox " aria-label="Change language variant" > <label id="vector-variants-dropdown-label" for="vector-variants-dropdown-checkbox" class="vector-dropdown-label cdx-button cdx-button--fake-button cdx-button--fake-button--enabled cdx-button--weight-quiet" aria-hidden="true" ><span class="vector-dropdown-label-text">English</span> </label> <div class="vector-dropdown-content"> <div id="p-variants" class="vector-menu mw-portlet mw-portlet-variants emptyPortlet" > <div class="vector-menu-content"> <ul class="vector-menu-content-list"> </ul> </div> </div> </div> </div> </nav> </div> <div id="right-navigation" class="vector-collapsible"> <nav aria-label="Views"> <div id="p-views" class="vector-menu vector-menu-tabs mw-portlet mw-portlet-views" > <div class="vector-menu-content"> <ul class="vector-menu-content-list"> <li id="ca-view" class="selected vector-tab-noicon mw-list-item"><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_136"><span>Read</span></a></li><li id="ca-edit" class="istalk vector-tab-noicon mw-list-item"><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_136&action=edit" title="Edit this page [e]" accesskey="e"><span>Edit</span></a></li><li id="ca-history" class="vector-tab-noicon mw-list-item"><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_136&action=history" title="Past revisions of this page [h]" accesskey="h"><span>View history</span></a></li> </ul> </div> </div> </nav> <nav class="vector-page-tools-landmark" aria-label="Page tools"> <div id="vector-page-tools-dropdown" class="vector-dropdown vector-page-tools-dropdown" > <input type="checkbox" id="vector-page-tools-dropdown-checkbox" role="button" aria-haspopup="true" data-event-name="ui.dropdown-vector-page-tools-dropdown" class="vector-dropdown-checkbox " aria-label="Tools" > <label id="vector-page-tools-dropdown-label" for="vector-page-tools-dropdown-checkbox" class="vector-dropdown-label cdx-button cdx-button--fake-button cdx-button--fake-button--enabled cdx-button--weight-quiet" aria-hidden="true" ><span class="vector-dropdown-label-text">Tools</span> </label> <div class="vector-dropdown-content"> <div id="vector-page-tools-unpinned-container" class="vector-unpinned-container"> <div id="vector-page-tools" class="vector-page-tools vector-pinnable-element"> <div class="vector-pinnable-header vector-page-tools-pinnable-header vector-pinnable-header-unpinned" data-feature-name="page-tools-pinned" data-pinnable-element-id="vector-page-tools" data-pinned-container-id="vector-page-tools-pinned-container" data-unpinned-container-id="vector-page-tools-unpinned-container" > <div class="vector-pinnable-header-label">Tools</div> <button class="vector-pinnable-header-toggle-button vector-pinnable-header-pin-button" data-event-name="pinnable-header.vector-page-tools.pin">move to sidebar</button> <button class="vector-pinnable-header-toggle-button vector-pinnable-header-unpin-button" data-event-name="pinnable-header.vector-page-tools.unpin">hide</button> </div> <div id="p-cactions" class="vector-menu mw-portlet mw-portlet-cactions emptyPortlet vector-has-collapsible-items" title="More options" > <div class="vector-menu-heading"> Actions </div> <div class="vector-menu-content"> <ul class="vector-menu-content-list"> <li id="ca-more-view" class="selected vector-more-collapsible-item mw-list-item"><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_136"><span>Read</span></a></li><li id="ca-more-edit" class="istalk vector-more-collapsible-item mw-list-item"><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_136&action=edit" title="Edit this page [e]" accesskey="e"><span>Edit</span></a></li><li id="ca-more-history" class="vector-more-collapsible-item mw-list-item"><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_136&action=history"><span>View history</span></a></li> </ul> </div> </div> <div id="p-tb" class="vector-menu mw-portlet mw-portlet-tb" > <div class="vector-menu-heading"> General </div> <div class="vector-menu-content"> <ul class="vector-menu-content-list"> <li id="t-whatlinkshere" class="mw-list-item"><a href="/wiki/Special:WhatLinksHere/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_136" title="List of all English Wikipedia pages containing links to this page [j]" accesskey="j"><span>What links here</span></a></li><li id="t-recentchangeslinked" class="mw-list-item"><a href="/wiki/Special:RecentChangesLinked/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_136" rel="nofollow" title="Recent changes in pages linked from this page [k]" accesskey="k"><span>Related changes</span></a></li><li id="t-upload" class="mw-list-item"><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:File_Upload_Wizard" title="Upload files [u]" accesskey="u"><span>Upload file</span></a></li><li id="t-specialpages" class="mw-list-item"><a href="/wiki/Special:SpecialPages" title="A list of all special pages [q]" accesskey="q"><span>Special pages</span></a></li><li id="t-permalink" class="mw-list-item"><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_136&oldid=1189628412" title="Permanent link to this revision of this page"><span>Permanent link</span></a></li><li id="t-info" class="mw-list-item"><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_136&action=info" title="More information about this page"><span>Page information</span></a></li><li id="t-urlshortener" class="mw-list-item"><a href="/w/index.php?title=Special:UrlShortener&url=https%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FWikipedia_talk%3AWikiProject_Medicine%2FArchive_136"><span>Get shortened URL</span></a></li><li id="t-urlshortener-qrcode" class="mw-list-item"><a href="/w/index.php?title=Special:QrCode&url=https%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FWikipedia_talk%3AWikiProject_Medicine%2FArchive_136"><span>Download QR code</span></a></li> </ul> </div> </div> <div id="p-coll-print_export" class="vector-menu mw-portlet mw-portlet-coll-print_export" > <div class="vector-menu-heading"> Print/export </div> <div class="vector-menu-content"> <ul class="vector-menu-content-list"> <li id="coll-download-as-rl" class="mw-list-item"><a href="/w/index.php?title=Special:DownloadAsPdf&page=Wikipedia_talk%3AWikiProject_Medicine%2FArchive_136&action=show-download-screen" title="Download this page as a PDF file"><span>Download as PDF</span></a></li><li id="t-print" class="mw-list-item"><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_136&printable=yes" title="Printable version of this page [p]" accesskey="p"><span>Printable version</span></a></li> </ul> </div> </div> <div id="p-wikibase-otherprojects" class="vector-menu mw-portlet mw-portlet-wikibase-otherprojects emptyPortlet" > <div class="vector-menu-heading"> In other projects </div> <div class="vector-menu-content"> <ul class="vector-menu-content-list"> </ul> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </nav> </div> </div> </div> <div class="vector-column-end"> <div class="vector-sticky-pinned-container"> <nav class="vector-page-tools-landmark" aria-label="Page tools"> <div id="vector-page-tools-pinned-container" class="vector-pinned-container"> </div> </nav> <nav class="vector-appearance-landmark" aria-label="Appearance"> <div id="vector-appearance-pinned-container" class="vector-pinned-container"> <div id="vector-appearance" class="vector-appearance vector-pinnable-element"> <div class="vector-pinnable-header vector-appearance-pinnable-header vector-pinnable-header-pinned" data-feature-name="appearance-pinned" data-pinnable-element-id="vector-appearance" data-pinned-container-id="vector-appearance-pinned-container" data-unpinned-container-id="vector-appearance-unpinned-container" > <div class="vector-pinnable-header-label">Appearance</div> <button class="vector-pinnable-header-toggle-button vector-pinnable-header-pin-button" data-event-name="pinnable-header.vector-appearance.pin">move to sidebar</button> <button class="vector-pinnable-header-toggle-button vector-pinnable-header-unpin-button" data-event-name="pinnable-header.vector-appearance.unpin">hide</button> </div> </div> </div> </nav> </div> </div> <div id="bodyContent" class="vector-body" aria-labelledby="firstHeading" data-mw-ve-target-container> <div class="vector-body-before-content"> <div class="mw-indicators"> </div> <div id="siteSub" class="noprint">From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia</div> </div> <div id="contentSub"><div id="mw-content-subtitle"><div class="subpages">< <bdi dir="ltr"><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Medicine">Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Medicine</a></bdi></div></div></div> <div id="mw-content-text" class="mw-body-content"><div class="mw-content-ltr mw-parser-output" lang="en" dir="ltr"><style data-mw-deduplicate="TemplateStyles:r1237879475">.mw-parser-output .tmbox{margin:4px 0;border-collapse:collapse;border:1px solid #c0c090;background-color:#f8eaba;box-sizing:border-box}.mw-parser-output .tmbox.mbox-small{font-size:88%;line-height:1.25em}.mw-parser-output .tmbox-speedy{border:2px solid #b32424;background-color:#fee7e6}.mw-parser-output .tmbox-delete{border:2px solid #b32424}.mw-parser-output .tmbox-content{border:2px solid #f28500}.mw-parser-output .tmbox-style{border:2px solid #fc3}.mw-parser-output .tmbox-move{border:2px solid #9932cc}.mw-parser-output .tmbox .mbox-text{border:none;padding:0.25em 0.9em;width:100%}.mw-parser-output .tmbox .mbox-image{border:none;padding:2px 0 2px 0.9em;text-align:center}.mw-parser-output .tmbox .mbox-imageright{border:none;padding:2px 0.9em 2px 0;text-align:center}.mw-parser-output .tmbox .mbox-empty-cell{border:none;padding:0;width:1px}.mw-parser-output .tmbox .mbox-invalid-type{text-align:center}@media(min-width:720px){.mw-parser-output .tmbox{margin:4px 10%}.mw-parser-output .tmbox.mbox-small{clear:right;float:right;margin:4px 0 4px 1em;width:238px}}@media screen{html.skin-theme-clientpref-night .mw-parser-output .tmbox{background-color:#2e2505}html.skin-theme-clientpref-night .mw-parser-output .tmbox-speedy{background-color:#310402}}@media screen and (prefers-color-scheme:dark){html.skin-theme-clientpref-os .mw-parser-output .tmbox{background-color:#2e2505}html.skin-theme-clientpref-os .mw-parser-output .tmbox-speedy{background-color:#310402}}body.skin--responsive .mw-parser-output table.tmbox img{max-width:none!important}</style><table class="plainlinks tmbox tmbox-notice" role="presentation"><tbody><tr><td class="mbox-image"><span typeof="mw:File"><span><img alt="" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/2/2a/Replacement_filing_cabinet.svg/40px-Replacement_filing_cabinet.svg.png" decoding="async" width="40" height="40" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/2/2a/Replacement_filing_cabinet.svg/60px-Replacement_filing_cabinet.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/2/2a/Replacement_filing_cabinet.svg/80px-Replacement_filing_cabinet.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="200" data-file-height="200"/></span></span></td><td class="mbox-text" style="text-align:center">This is an <b><a href="/wiki/Help:Archiving_a_talk_page" title="Help:Archiving a talk page">archive</a></b> of past discussions on <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Medicine" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Medicine">Wikipedia:WikiProject Medicine</a>. <b>Do not edit the contents of this page.</b> If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Medicine">current talk page</a>.</td></tr></tbody></table> <table style="text-align:center;margin:0 auto 0.5em;max-width:50em;width:100%;width:-moz-available;width:-webkit-fill-available;width:stretch"><tbody><tr><td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_130" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Medicine/Archive 130">Archive 130</a></td><td>←</td><td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_134" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Medicine/Archive 134">Archive 134</a></td><td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_135" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Medicine/Archive 135">Archive 135</a></td><td><span style="font-size:115%;"><a class="mw-selflink selflink">Archive 136</a></span></td><td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_137" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Medicine/Archive 137">Archive 137</a></td><td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_138" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Medicine/Archive 138">Archive 138</a></td><td>→</td><td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_140" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Medicine/Archive 140">Archive 140</a></td></tr></tbody></table> <meta property="mw:PageProp/toc"/> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Tuberculosis" data-mw-thread-id="h-Tuberculosis-2020-05-06T08:43:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Tuberculosis-2020-05-06T08:43:00.000Z"></span>Tuberculosis<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Tuberculosis-2020-05-06T08:43:00.000Z"></span></h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-PaleoNeonate-2020-05-06T08:43:00.000Z-Tuberculosis"></span>Just a notice that it's possible that the article or Covid-19 related ones will have some related editing, since it's in the news.<sup id="cite_ref-1" class="reference"><a href="#cite_note-1"><span class="cite-bracket">[</span>1<span class="cite-bracket">]</span></a></sup> While I don't think the danger of tuberculosis should be minimized, the concern in relation to the Covid pandemic also shouldn't be. One person's experience doesn't amount to world statistics, but while I never personally met someone known to suffer from tuberculosis, I know at least two people close to me who almost died from this pandemic that has not yet reached its peak (one still in critical state under sedation on a ventilator, but who at least fortunately could get access to proper ICU care, thanks to the somewhat successful flattening of the curve in my area)... —<a href="/wiki/User:PaleoNeonate" title="User:PaleoNeonate"><span style="font-variant:small-caps;color:#44a;text-shadow:2px 2px 3px DimGray;">Paleo</span></a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:PaleoNeonate" title="User talk:PaleoNeonate"><span style="font-variant:small-caps;color:#272;text-shadow:2px 2px 3px DimGray;">Neonate</span></a> – <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_136#c-PaleoNeonate-2020-05-06T08:43:00.000Z-Tuberculosis" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">08:43, 6 May 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-PaleoNeonate-2020-05-06T08:43:00.000Z-Tuberculosis"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-PaleoNeonate-2020-05-06T08:43:00.000Z-Tuberculosis"></span> </p> <span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-WhatamIdoing-2020-05-06T16:22:00.000Z-Tuberculosis"></span><style data-mw-deduplicate="TemplateStyles:r1232521257">.mw-parser-output .reflist-talk{margin:auto 0;border:1px dashed var(--border-color-base,#a2a9b1);padding:4px;padding-left:1em}.mw-parser-output .reflist-talk-title{font-weight:bold}</style><div class="reflist-talk"> <p class="reflist-talk-title">References</p> <style data-mw-deduplicate="TemplateStyles:r1239543626">.mw-parser-output .reflist{margin-bottom:0.5em;list-style-type:decimal}@media screen{.mw-parser-output .reflist{font-size:90%}}.mw-parser-output .reflist .references{font-size:100%;margin-bottom:0;list-style-type:inherit}.mw-parser-output .reflist-columns-2{column-width:30em}.mw-parser-output .reflist-columns-3{column-width:25em}.mw-parser-output .reflist-columns{margin-top:0.3em}.mw-parser-output .reflist-columns ol{margin-top:0}.mw-parser-output .reflist-columns li{page-break-inside:avoid;break-inside:avoid-column}.mw-parser-output .reflist-upper-alpha{list-style-type:upper-alpha}.mw-parser-output .reflist-upper-roman{list-style-type:upper-roman}.mw-parser-output .reflist-lower-alpha{list-style-type:lower-alpha}.mw-parser-output .reflist-lower-greek{list-style-type:lower-greek}.mw-parser-output .reflist-lower-roman{list-style-type:lower-roman}</style><div class="reflist"> <div class="mw-references-wrap"><ol class="references"> <li id="cite_note-1"><span class="mw-cite-backlink"><b><a href="#cite_ref-1">^</a></b></span> <span class="reference-text"><style data-mw-deduplicate="TemplateStyles:r1238218222">.mw-parser-output cite.citation{font-style:inherit;word-wrap:break-word}.mw-parser-output .citation q{quotes:"\"""\"""'""'"}.mw-parser-output .citation:target{background-color:rgba(0,127,255,0.133)}.mw-parser-output .id-lock-free.id-lock-free a{background:url("//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/65/Lock-green.svg")right 0.1em center/9px no-repeat}.mw-parser-output .id-lock-limited.id-lock-limited a,.mw-parser-output .id-lock-registration.id-lock-registration a{background:url("//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d6/Lock-gray-alt-2.svg")right 0.1em center/9px no-repeat}.mw-parser-output .id-lock-subscription.id-lock-subscription a{background:url("//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/aa/Lock-red-alt-2.svg")right 0.1em center/9px no-repeat}.mw-parser-output .cs1-ws-icon a{background:url("//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4c/Wikisource-logo.svg")right 0.1em center/12px no-repeat}body:not(.skin-timeless):not(.skin-minerva) .mw-parser-output .id-lock-free a,body:not(.skin-timeless):not(.skin-minerva) .mw-parser-output .id-lock-limited a,body:not(.skin-timeless):not(.skin-minerva) .mw-parser-output .id-lock-registration a,body:not(.skin-timeless):not(.skin-minerva) .mw-parser-output .id-lock-subscription a,body:not(.skin-timeless):not(.skin-minerva) .mw-parser-output .cs1-ws-icon a{background-size:contain;padding:0 1em 0 0}.mw-parser-output .cs1-code{color:inherit;background:inherit;border:none;padding:inherit}.mw-parser-output .cs1-hidden-error{display:none;color:var(--color-error,#d33)}.mw-parser-output .cs1-visible-error{color:var(--color-error,#d33)}.mw-parser-output .cs1-maint{display:none;color:#085;margin-left:0.3em}.mw-parser-output .cs1-kern-left{padding-left:0.2em}.mw-parser-output .cs1-kern-right{padding-right:0.2em}.mw-parser-output .citation .mw-selflink{font-weight:inherit}@media screen{.mw-parser-output .cs1-format{font-size:95%}html.skin-theme-clientpref-night .mw-parser-output .cs1-maint{color:#18911f}}@media screen and (prefers-color-scheme:dark){html.skin-theme-clientpref-os .mw-parser-output .cs1-maint{color:#18911f}}</style><cite id="CITEREFFord2020" class="citation news cs1">Ford, Liz (6 May 2020). <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2020/may/06/millions-develop-tuberculosis-tb-covid-19-lockdown">"Millions predicted to develop tuberculosis as result of Covid-19 lockdown"</a>. <i>The Guardian</i>.</cite><span title="ctx_ver=Z39.88-2004&rft_val_fmt=info%3Aofi%2Ffmt%3Akev%3Amtx%3Ajournal&rft.genre=article&rft.jtitle=The+Guardian&rft.atitle=Millions+predicted+to+develop+tuberculosis+as+result+of+Covid-19+lockdown&rft.date=2020-05-06&rft.aulast=Ford&rft.aufirst=Liz&rft_id=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.theguardian.com%2Fglobal-development%2F2020%2Fmay%2F06%2Fmillions-develop-tuberculosis-tb-covid-19-lockdown&rfr_id=info%3Asid%2Fen.wikipedia.org%3AWikipedia+talk%3AWikiProject+Medicine%2FArchive+136" class="Z3988"></span></span> </li> </ol></div></div> </div> <dl><dd>Pageviews at <a href="/wiki/Tuberculosis" title="Tuberculosis">Tuberculosis</a> are down (noticeably) compared to March. <a href="/wiki/User:WhatamIdoing" title="User:WhatamIdoing">WhatamIdoing</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:WhatamIdoing" title="User talk:WhatamIdoing">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_136#c-WhatamIdoing-2020-05-06T16:22:00.000Z-Tuberculosis" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:22, 6 May 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-WhatamIdoing-2020-05-06T16:22:00.000Z-Tuberculosis"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-WhatamIdoing-2020-05-06T16:22:00.000Z-Tuberculosis"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Whispyhistory-2020-05-06T19:33:00.000Z-WhatamIdoing-2020-05-06T16:22:00.000Z"></span>Thanks for bringing to attention. <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://www.who.int/tb/COVID_19considerations_tuberculosis_services.pdf">this</a> may be of interest. <a href="/wiki/User:Whispyhistory" title="User:Whispyhistory">Whispyhistory</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Whispyhistory" title="User talk:Whispyhistory">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_136#c-Whispyhistory-2020-05-06T19:33:00.000Z-WhatamIdoing-2020-05-06T16:22:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:33, 6 May 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Whispyhistory-2020-05-06T19:33:00.000Z-WhatamIdoing-2020-05-06T16:22:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Whispyhistory-2020-05-06T19:33:00.000Z-WhatamIdoing-2020-05-06T16:22:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Whispyhistory-2020-05-07T19:41:00.000Z-Whispyhistory-2020-05-06T19:33:00.000Z"></span>I was wondering whether there was a section or page on the differentials of COVID-19...<a href="/wiki/User:Whispyhistory" title="User:Whispyhistory">Whispyhistory</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Whispyhistory" title="User talk:Whispyhistory">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_136#c-Whispyhistory-2020-05-07T19:41:00.000Z-Whispyhistory-2020-05-06T19:33:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:41, 7 May 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Whispyhistory-2020-05-07T19:41:00.000Z-Whispyhistory-2020-05-06T19:33:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Whispyhistory-2020-05-07T19:41:00.000Z-Whispyhistory-2020-05-06T19:33:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Biomedical_material_based_on_non-MEDRS_sourcing" data-mw-thread-id="h-Biomedical_material_based_on_non-MEDRS_sourcing-2020-05-09T10:50:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Biomedical_material_based_on_non-MEDRS_sourcing-2020-05-09T10:50:00.000Z"></span>Biomedical material based on non-MEDRS sourcing<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Biomedical_material_based_on_non-MEDRS_sourcing-2020-05-09T10:50:00.000Z"></span></h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Girth_Summit-2020-05-09T10:50:00.000Z-Biomedical_material_based_on_non-MEDRS_sourcing"></span>Hi - I recently declined a draft article about a medical issue associated with breast feeding which was supported largely by links to Reddit and other online forums. Its author told me that they thought that was alright, because Reddit was cited as a source at <a href="/wiki/Dysphoric_milk_ejection_reflex" title="Dysphoric milk ejection reflex">Dysphoric milk ejection reflex</a>. I have taken a quick look, and am not super-concerned about the solitary link to Reddit (it's not supporting any significant assertion), but some of the other sourcing looks a bit on the ropey side - in the '<a href="/wiki/Dysphoric_milk_ejection_reflex#Misconceptions" title="Dysphoric milk ejection reflex">Misconceptions</a>' section there are a number of biomedical assertions sourced to support groups' websites and what appear to be blogs (expert blogs perhaps). I wondered whether someone with better subject knowledge than me, and perhaps access to better sourcing, might be willing to take a look and see whether any of this material needs removing or bolstering with better sources. Cheers <a href="/wiki/User:Girth_Summit" title="User:Girth Summit"><span style="font-family:Impact;color:#294;">Girth</span><span style="font-family:Impact;color:#42c;">Summit</span></a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Girth_Summit" title="User talk:Girth Summit"><sub style="font-family:script;color:blue;"> (blether)</sub></a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_136#c-Girth_Summit-2020-05-09T10:50:00.000Z-Biomedical_material_based_on_non-MEDRS_sourcing" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">10:50, 9 May 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Girth_Summit-2020-05-09T10:50:00.000Z-Biomedical_material_based_on_non-MEDRS_sourcing"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Girth_Summit-2020-05-09T10:50:00.000Z-Biomedical_material_based_on_non-MEDRS_sourcing"></span> </p> <dl><dd><a href="/wiki/User:Girth_Summit" title="User:Girth Summit"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Doc_James-2020-05-11T15:09:00.000Z-Girth_Summit-2020-05-09T10:50:00.000Z"></span>User:Girth Summit</a> the article <a href="/wiki/Dysphoric_milk_ejection_reflex" title="Dysphoric milk ejection reflex">Dysphoric milk ejection reflex</a> appear to be written by the author of a self published book using the self published book.<a rel="nofollow" class="external autonumber" href="https://www.amazon.ca/Before-Letdown-Dysphoric-Ejection-Breastfeeding/dp/1973480999/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=Before+the+letdown%3A+dysphoric+milk+ejection+reflex+and+the+breastfeeding+mother&qid=1589209646&sr=8-1">[1]</a></dd> <dd>There are zero secondary sources on pubmed.<a rel="nofollow" class="external autonumber" href="https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/?term=Dysphoric+milk+ejection+reflex">[2]</a> And only 4 primary sources one written by the other. <a href="/wiki/User:Doc_James" title="User:Doc James"><span style="color:#0000f1"><b>Doc James</b></span></a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Doc_James" title="User talk:Doc James">talk</a> · <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Doc_James" title="Special:Contributions/Doc James">contribs</a> · <a href="/wiki/Special:EmailUser/Doc_James" title="Special:EmailUser/Doc James">email</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_136#c-Doc_James-2020-05-11T15:09:00.000Z-Girth_Summit-2020-05-09T10:50:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:09, 11 May 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Doc_James-2020-05-11T15:09:00.000Z-Girth_Summit-2020-05-09T10:50:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Doc_James-2020-05-11T15:09:00.000Z-Girth_Summit-2020-05-09T10:50:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><a href="/wiki/User:Doc_James" title="User:Doc James"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Girth_Summit-2020-05-11T15:12:00.000Z-Doc_James-2020-05-11T15:09:00.000Z"></span>Doc James</a>, that's a bit worrying. Is this an AfD do you think, if we have zero MEDRS-compliant sources? <a href="/wiki/User:Girth_Summit" title="User:Girth Summit"><span style="font-family:Impact;color:#294;">Girth</span><span style="font-family:Impact;color:#42c;">Summit</span></a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Girth_Summit" title="User talk:Girth Summit"><sub style="font-family:script;color:blue;"> (blether)</sub></a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_136#c-Girth_Summit-2020-05-11T15:12:00.000Z-Doc_James-2020-05-11T15:09:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:12, 11 May 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Girth_Summit-2020-05-11T15:12:00.000Z-Doc_James-2020-05-11T15:09:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Girth_Summit-2020-05-11T15:12:00.000Z-Doc_James-2020-05-11T15:09:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Doc_James-2020-05-11T15:17:00.000Z-Girth_Summit-2020-05-11T15:12:00.000Z"></span>I have found a textbooks that touches on it <a rel="nofollow" class="external autonumber" href="https://www.google.com/books/edition/Breastfeeding_E_Book/S6y6CgAAQBAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=%22Dysphoric+milk+ejection+reflex%22&pg=PA626">[3]</a>. <a href="/wiki/User:Girth_Summit" title="User:Girth Summit">User:Girth Summit</a> likely needs a rewrite. <a href="/wiki/User:Doc_James" title="User:Doc James"><span style="color:#0000f1"><b>Doc James</b></span></a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Doc_James" title="User talk:Doc James">talk</a> · <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Doc_James" title="Special:Contributions/Doc James">contribs</a> · <a href="/wiki/Special:EmailUser/Doc_James" title="Special:EmailUser/Doc James">email</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_136#c-Doc_James-2020-05-11T15:17:00.000Z-Girth_Summit-2020-05-11T15:12:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:17, 11 May 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Doc_James-2020-05-11T15:17:00.000Z-Girth_Summit-2020-05-11T15:12:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Doc_James-2020-05-11T15:17:00.000Z-Girth_Summit-2020-05-11T15:12:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Girth_Summit-2020-05-11T15:19:00.000Z-Doc_James-2020-05-11T15:17:00.000Z"></span>OK <a href="/wiki/User:Doc_James" title="User:Doc James">Doc James</a>, if there are sources I'll leave it in your hands then. Let me know if I can help. <a href="/wiki/User:Girth_Summit" title="User:Girth Summit"><span style="font-family:Impact;color:#294;">Girth</span><span style="font-family:Impact;color:#42c;">Summit</span></a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Girth_Summit" title="User talk:Girth Summit"><sub style="font-family:script;color:blue;"> (blether)</sub></a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_136#c-Girth_Summit-2020-05-11T15:19:00.000Z-Doc_James-2020-05-11T15:17:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:19, 11 May 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Girth_Summit-2020-05-11T15:19:00.000Z-Doc_James-2020-05-11T15:17:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Girth_Summit-2020-05-11T15:19:00.000Z-Doc_James-2020-05-11T15:17:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Doc_James-2020-05-11T15:41:00.000Z-Girth_Summit-2020-05-11T15:19:00.000Z"></span>Added the one source. Otherwise are welcome to jump in. As it is covered in the textbook consider it to reach notability. <a href="/wiki/User:Doc_James" title="User:Doc James"><span style="color:#0000f1"><b>Doc James</b></span></a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Doc_James" title="User talk:Doc James">talk</a> · <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Doc_James" title="Special:Contributions/Doc James">contribs</a> · <a href="/wiki/Special:EmailUser/Doc_James" title="Special:EmailUser/Doc James">email</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_136#c-Doc_James-2020-05-11T15:41:00.000Z-Girth_Summit-2020-05-11T15:19:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:41, 11 May 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Doc_James-2020-05-11T15:41:00.000Z-Girth_Summit-2020-05-11T15:19:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Doc_James-2020-05-11T15:41:00.000Z-Girth_Summit-2020-05-11T15:19:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Clayoquot-2020-05-11T23:11:00.000Z-Doc_James-2020-05-11T15:41:00.000Z"></span>Doc James did great work cleaning this up. It reads much better now. <a href="/wiki/User:Clayoquot" title="User:Clayoquot">Clayoquot</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Clayoquot" title="User talk:Clayoquot">talk</a> | <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Clayoquot" title="Special:Contributions/Clayoquot">contribs</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_136#c-Clayoquot-2020-05-11T23:11:00.000Z-Doc_James-2020-05-11T15:41:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:11, 11 May 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Clayoquot-2020-05-11T23:11:00.000Z-Doc_James-2020-05-11T15:41:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Clayoquot-2020-05-11T23:11:00.000Z-Doc_James-2020-05-11T15:41:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Online_medical_symposium_-_COVID-19_-_Wiki_NYC" data-mw-thread-id="h-Online_medical_symposium_-_COVID-19_-_Wiki_NYC-2020-05-11T22:12:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Online_medical_symposium_-_COVID-19_-_Wiki_NYC-2020-05-11T22:12:00.000Z"></span>Online medical symposium - COVID-19 - Wiki NYC<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Online_medical_symposium_-_COVID-19_-_Wiki_NYC-2020-05-11T22:12:00.000Z"></span></h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Bluerasberry-2020-05-11T22:12:00.000Z-Online_medical_symposium_-_COVID-19_-_Wiki_NYC"></span><figure class="mw-halign-right" typeof="mw:File/Thumb"><span><video id="mwe_player_0" poster="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/1b/Symposium_on_Wikipedia_and_COVID-19.webm/400px--Symposium_on_Wikipedia_and_COVID-19.webm.jpg" controls="" preload="none" data-mw-tmh="" class="mw-file-element" width="400" height="225" data-durationhint="7988" data-mwtitle="Symposium_on_Wikipedia_and_COVID-19.webm" data-mwprovider="wikimediacommons" resource="/wiki/File:Symposium_on_Wikipedia_and_COVID-19.webm"><source src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/transcoded/1/1b/Symposium_on_Wikipedia_and_COVID-19.webm/Symposium_on_Wikipedia_and_COVID-19.webm.480p.vp9.webm" type="video/webm; codecs="vp9, opus"" data-transcodekey="480p.vp9.webm" data-width="854" data-height="480"/><source src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/transcoded/1/1b/Symposium_on_Wikipedia_and_COVID-19.webm/Symposium_on_Wikipedia_and_COVID-19.webm.720p.vp9.webm" type="video/webm; codecs="vp9, opus"" data-transcodekey="720p.vp9.webm" data-width="1280" data-height="720"/><source src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/1b/Symposium_on_Wikipedia_and_COVID-19.webm" type="video/webm; codecs="vp9, opus"" data-width="1280" data-height="720"/><source src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/transcoded/1/1b/Symposium_on_Wikipedia_and_COVID-19.webm/Symposium_on_Wikipedia_and_COVID-19.webm.240p.vp9.webm" type="video/webm; codecs="vp9, opus"" data-transcodekey="240p.vp9.webm" data-width="426" data-height="240"/><source src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/transcoded/1/1b/Symposium_on_Wikipedia_and_COVID-19.webm/Symposium_on_Wikipedia_and_COVID-19.webm.360p.vp9.webm" type="video/webm; codecs="vp9, opus"" data-transcodekey="360p.vp9.webm" data-width="640" data-height="360"/><source src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/transcoded/1/1b/Symposium_on_Wikipedia_and_COVID-19.webm/Symposium_on_Wikipedia_and_COVID-19.webm.360p.webm" type="video/webm; codecs="vp8, vorbis"" data-transcodekey="360p.webm" data-width="640" data-height="360"/></video></span><figcaption>Symposium on Wikipedia and COVID-19</figcaption></figure> <p>See the event page. </p> <ul><li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Meetup/NYC/Symposium_on_Wikipedia_and_COVID-19" title="Wikipedia:Meetup/NYC/Symposium on Wikipedia and COVID-19">Wikipedia:Meetup/NYC/Symposium on Wikipedia and COVID-19</a></li></ul> <p>Hello, I wanted to share a video of an online medical symposium. I am one of the speakers. Enjoy! </p><p>Here is more context: I am a member and regular attendee of events with <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Meetup/NYC" title="Wikipedia:Meetup/NYC">Wikimedia New York City</a>. Since about 2014 this organization has hosted about 100 in-person Wikipedia events every year. See documentation on the organization's page. In the context of COVID-19 people still wish to meet, but that has to happen online. The organization is developing various models of online meetups, including for socializing, coworking, running governance meetings, and now this, a symposium. </p><p>I am sharing this here because this is medicine themed, and also because there is a good appetite for more of these. Organizing this 2-hour talk from planning to publishing probably took 50-80 labor hours from all the people involved which is more than many of us expected. In the future that number could go down, but if anyone asks and for reference, please set expectations to that amount of labor from experienced event organizers for this kind of presentation with multiple speakers and some typical organizing. In my opinion Wiki NYC is efficient with events, and stripped to no preparation this could have just been published casually, but now what we have the experience we can replicate this with either more or less planning. </p><p>I am sharing this here because I think there is a great demand for online medical talks. I think this live broadcasting model made for some fun engagement. </p><p>Check it out now, and sometime, let's find a way for this WikiProject to join in organizing some talks about whatever people here want to share. Thanks. <a href="/wiki/User:Bluerasberry" title="User:Bluerasberry"><span style="background:#cedff2;color:#11e"><b> Blue Rasberry </b></span></a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Bluerasberry" title="User talk:Bluerasberry"><span style="background:#cedff2;color:#11e">(talk)</span></a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_136#c-Bluerasberry-2020-05-11T22:12:00.000Z-Online_medical_symposium_-_COVID-19_-_Wiki_NYC" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:12, 11 May 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Bluerasberry-2020-05-11T22:12:00.000Z-Online_medical_symposium_-_COVID-19_-_Wiki_NYC"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Bluerasberry-2020-05-11T22:12:00.000Z-Online_medical_symposium_-_COVID-19_-_Wiki_NYC"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Ozzie10aaaa-2020-05-12T00:50:00.000Z-Bluerasberry-2020-05-11T22:12:00.000Z"></span>very informative, thanks Blue Rasberry--<a href="/wiki/User:Ozzie10aaaa" title="User:Ozzie10aaaa">Ozzie10aaaa</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Ozzie10aaaa" title="User talk:Ozzie10aaaa">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_136#c-Ozzie10aaaa-2020-05-12T00:50:00.000Z-Bluerasberry-2020-05-11T22:12:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:50, 12 May 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Ozzie10aaaa-2020-05-12T00:50:00.000Z-Bluerasberry-2020-05-11T22:12:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Ozzie10aaaa-2020-05-12T00:50:00.000Z-Bluerasberry-2020-05-11T22:12:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Evolution_and_evolvability-2020-05-13T04:48:00.000Z-Ozzie10aaaa-2020-05-12T00:50:00.000Z"></span>I really enjoyed this, and I think there is great scope for more outward-facing material that informs people about how Wikipedia works and may even bring in new wikipedians and partner organisations. Also check out <a href="https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_Weekly_Network" class="extiw" title="metawiki:Wikipedia Weekly Network">Wikipedia weekly</a> and <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="http://wikipediapodden.se/">Wikipediapodden</a> podcasts. There have also been a few conferences/symposia in the past (<a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://uk.cochrane.org/news/wikipedia-science-conference">example</a>). Also consider joining an <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://bcc2020.github.io/cofest/">upcoming online conference</a> which may include a couple of days of wiki workshops focused on covid-19 and bioinformatics (more info at <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Molecular_Biology#Wikidata_at_the_Bioinformatics_Community_Conference_2020?" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Molecular Biology">WT:MOLBIO</a>). <a href="/wiki/User:Evolution_and_evolvability" title="User:Evolution and evolvability">T.Shafee(Evo<small>&</small>Evo)</a><sup><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Evolution_and_evolvability" title="User talk:Evolution and evolvability">talk</a></sup> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_136#c-Evolution_and_evolvability-2020-05-13T04:48:00.000Z-Ozzie10aaaa-2020-05-12T00:50:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">04:48, 13 May 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Evolution_and_evolvability-2020-05-13T04:48:00.000Z-Ozzie10aaaa-2020-05-12T00:50:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Evolution_and_evolvability-2020-05-13T04:48:00.000Z-Ozzie10aaaa-2020-05-12T00:50:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="A_thank_you" data-mw-thread-id="h-A_thank_you-2020-05-11T13:09:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-A_thank_you-2020-05-11T13:09:00.000Z"></span>A thank you<span data-mw-comment-end="h-A_thank_you-2020-05-11T13:09:00.000Z"></span></h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Adrian_J._Hunter-2020-05-11T13:09:00.000Z-A_thank_you"></span>This was just posted at <a href="/wiki/Talk:Introduction_to_viruses" title="Talk:Introduction to viruses">Talk:Introduction to viruses</a>: </p> <blockquote class="quote-frame pullquote" style="font-size: 95%; padding: 0.5em 2em; background-color: var( --background-color-neutral-subtle, #f8f9fa ); color: var( --color-base, black ); border: 1px solid #aaa; display:table; float:none;"><div style="padding: 0.6em 1em;">== Thank you! == As an intelligent, non scientific adult who is keen to better understand this pandemic, I'm grateful to all of you -- writers, editors - who have developed this article. Plain language intended for non-scientists is exactly what we need. Too many scientific Wikipedia articles are written by scientists for scientists - and continue to mystify the masses. THank you,thank you, thank you. <small class="autosigned">— Preceding <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Signatures" title="Wikipedia:Signatures">unsigned</a> comment added by <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/2607:FEA8:BEA0:D640:B036:6B5:AF34:D50" title="Special:Contributions/2607:FEA8:BEA0:D640:B036:6B5:AF34:D50">2607:FEA8:BEA0:D640:B036:6B5:AF34:D50</a> (<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:2607:FEA8:BEA0:D640:B036:6B5:AF34:D50&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User talk:2607:FEA8:BEA0:D640:B036:6B5:AF34:D50 (page does not exist)">talk</a>) 10:50, 11 May 2020 (UTC)</small></div></blockquote> <p><a href="/wiki/User:Adrian_J._Hunter" title="User:Adrian J. Hunter">Adrian <b>J.</b> Hunter</a><sup>(<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Adrian_J._Hunter" title="User talk:Adrian J. Hunter">talk</a>•<a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Adrian_J._Hunter" title="Special:Contributions/Adrian J. Hunter">contribs</a>)</sup> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_136#c-Adrian_J._Hunter-2020-05-11T13:09:00.000Z-A_thank_you" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">13:09, 11 May 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Adrian_J._Hunter-2020-05-11T13:09:00.000Z-A_thank_you"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Adrian_J._Hunter-2020-05-11T13:09:00.000Z-A_thank_you"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-WhatamIdoing-2020-05-11T14:39:00.000Z-Adrian_J._Hunter-2020-05-11T13:09:00.000Z"></span>Thank you for sharing this. Pinging <a href="/wiki/User:Graham_Beards" title="User:Graham Beards">User:Graham Beards</a>, although I suspect he'll see it the original first. <a href="/wiki/User:WhatamIdoing" title="User:WhatamIdoing">WhatamIdoing</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:WhatamIdoing" title="User talk:WhatamIdoing">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_136#c-WhatamIdoing-2020-05-11T14:39:00.000Z-Adrian_J._Hunter-2020-05-11T13:09:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">14:39, 11 May 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-WhatamIdoing-2020-05-11T14:39:00.000Z-Adrian_J._Hunter-2020-05-11T13:09:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-WhatamIdoing-2020-05-11T14:39:00.000Z-Adrian_J._Hunter-2020-05-11T13:09:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Graham_Beards-2020-05-11T16:07:00.000Z-WhatamIdoing-2020-05-11T14:39:00.000Z"></span>Yes, I saw it earlier today. I was really pleased to read it. <a href="/wiki/User:Graham_Beards" title="User:Graham Beards">Graham Beards</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Graham_Beards" title="User talk:Graham Beards">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_136#c-Graham_Beards-2020-05-11T16:07:00.000Z-WhatamIdoing-2020-05-11T14:39:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:07, 11 May 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Graham_Beards-2020-05-11T16:07:00.000Z-WhatamIdoing-2020-05-11T14:39:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Graham_Beards-2020-05-11T16:07:00.000Z-WhatamIdoing-2020-05-11T14:39:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Evolution_and_evolvability-2020-05-13T04:40:00.000Z-Graham_Beards-2020-05-11T16:07:00.000Z"></span>Nice! Also rather raises the question as to whether its useful to have additional <a href="/wiki/Template:Introductory_science_articles" title="Template:Introductory science articles">Introductory science articles</a>. There seems to be a value to them (<a class="external text" href="https://tools.wmflabs.org/pageviews/?project=en.wikipedia.org&platform=all-access&agent=user&redirects=0&range=latest-365&pages=Introduction_to_viruses%7CVirus">pageview example</a>), especially since the underutilisation of simple English Wikipedia (<a class="external text" href="https://tools.wmflabs.org/pageviews/?project=simple.wikipedia.org&platform=all-access&agent=user&redirects=0&range=latest-365&pages=Virus">pageviews example</a>, which still includes pretty complex phrases). However the risk is content duplication of the main articles, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Outlines" title="Wikipedia:Outlines">outline pages</a>, <a href="/wiki/Category:Indexes_of_science_articles" title="Category:Indexes of science articles">index pages</a>, and <a href="/wiki/Portal:Viruses" title="Portal:Viruses">portal pages</a> which can have significant maintenance and updating overheads. Some articles have also included an introduction/lay summary section (e.g. <a href="/wiki/Higgs_boson" title="Higgs boson">Higgs_boson</a>). <a href="/wiki/User:Evolution_and_evolvability" title="User:Evolution and evolvability">T.Shafee(Evo<small>&</small>Evo)</a><sup><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Evolution_and_evolvability" title="User talk:Evolution and evolvability">talk</a></sup> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_136#c-Evolution_and_evolvability-2020-05-13T04:40:00.000Z-Graham_Beards-2020-05-11T16:07:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">04:40, 13 May 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Evolution_and_evolvability-2020-05-13T04:40:00.000Z-Graham_Beards-2020-05-11T16:07:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Evolution_and_evolvability-2020-05-13T04:40:00.000Z-Graham_Beards-2020-05-11T16:07:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-WhatamIdoing-2020-05-13T05:02:00.000Z-Evolution_and_evolvability-2020-05-13T04:40:00.000Z"></span>I think it's useful, but it's probably most useful when the subject is fairly technical and needs to be understood for a variety of articles (e.g., for viruses, but not for the common cold), and when the editors are deliberately writing for educational purposes, rather than as a comprehensive description of the subject. We don't have very many editors with a background in science education. <a href="/wiki/User:WhatamIdoing" title="User:WhatamIdoing">WhatamIdoing</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:WhatamIdoing" title="User talk:WhatamIdoing">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_136#c-WhatamIdoing-2020-05-13T05:02:00.000Z-Evolution_and_evolvability-2020-05-13T04:40:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">05:02, 13 May 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-WhatamIdoing-2020-05-13T05:02:00.000Z-Evolution_and_evolvability-2020-05-13T04:40:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-WhatamIdoing-2020-05-13T05:02:00.000Z-Evolution_and_evolvability-2020-05-13T04:40:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Shepard_Hurwitz" data-mw-thread-id="h-Shepard_Hurwitz-2020-05-12T10:25:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Shepard_Hurwitz-2020-05-12T10:25:00.000Z"></span><a href="/wiki/Shepard_Hurwitz" title="Shepard Hurwitz">Shepard Hurwitz</a><span data-mw-comment-end="h-Shepard_Hurwitz-2020-05-12T10:25:00.000Z"></span></h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Anne_Delong-2020-05-12T10:25:00.000Z-Shepard_Hurwitz"></span>Hello medical experts. I came across this article about a doctor, and I wasn't able to find much in newspapers or books to improve the referencing or add any information. Maybe someone with access to medical journals can do better?—<a href="/wiki/User:Anne_Delong" title="User:Anne Delong">Anne Delong</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Anne_Delong" title="User talk:Anne Delong">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_136#c-Anne_Delong-2020-05-12T10:25:00.000Z-Shepard_Hurwitz" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">10:25, 12 May 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Anne_Delong-2020-05-12T10:25:00.000Z-Shepard_Hurwitz"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Anne_Delong-2020-05-12T10:25:00.000Z-Shepard_Hurwitz"></span> </p> <dl><dd><a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/?term=Hurwitz%20S%20R"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Ozzie10aaaa-2020-05-13T21:08:00.000Z-Anne_Delong-2020-05-12T10:25:00.000Z"></span>journals</a>, but nothing else--<a href="/wiki/User:Ozzie10aaaa" title="User:Ozzie10aaaa">Ozzie10aaaa</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Ozzie10aaaa" title="User talk:Ozzie10aaaa">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_136#c-Ozzie10aaaa-2020-05-13T21:08:00.000Z-Anne_Delong-2020-05-12T10:25:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:08, 13 May 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Ozzie10aaaa-2020-05-13T21:08:00.000Z-Anne_Delong-2020-05-12T10:25:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Ozzie10aaaa-2020-05-13T21:08:00.000Z-Anne_Delong-2020-05-12T10:25:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Image_needing_MEDRS?" data-mw-thread-id="h-Image_needing_MEDRS?-2020-05-07T01:04:00.000Z"><span id="Image_needing_MEDRS.3F"></span><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Image_needing_MEDRS?-2020-05-07T01:04:00.000Z"></span>Image needing MEDRS?<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Image_needing_MEDRS?-2020-05-07T01:04:00.000Z"></span></h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-HLHJ-2020-05-07T01:04:00.000Z-Image_needing_MEDRS?"></span><figure class="mw-default-size" typeof="mw:File/Thumb"><a href="/wiki/File:Masks_against_the_transmission_of_droplet_infections_and_aerosols.png" class="mw-file-description"><img src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/97/Masks_against_the_transmission_of_droplet_infections_and_aerosols.png/220px-Masks_against_the_transmission_of_droplet_infections_and_aerosols.png" decoding="async" width="220" height="187" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/97/Masks_against_the_transmission_of_droplet_infections_and_aerosols.png/330px-Masks_against_the_transmission_of_droplet_infections_and_aerosols.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/97/Masks_against_the_transmission_of_droplet_infections_and_aerosols.png/440px-Masks_against_the_transmission_of_droplet_infections_and_aerosols.png 2x" data-file-width="1010" data-file-height="858"/></a><figcaption></figcaption></figure> <p>Views on this image? It does cite sources on Commons. <a href="/wiki/User:HLHJ" title="User:HLHJ">HLHJ</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:HLHJ" title="User talk:HLHJ">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_136#c-HLHJ-2020-05-07T01:04:00.000Z-Image_needing_MEDRS?" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:04, 7 May 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-HLHJ-2020-05-07T01:04:00.000Z-Image_needing_MEDRS?"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-HLHJ-2020-05-07T01:04:00.000Z-Image_needing_MEDRS?"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-WhatamIdoing-2020-05-07T03:24:00.000Z-HLHJ-2020-05-07T01:04:00.000Z"></span>Images are generally supposed to illustrate content that is already explained in the text. In that situation, it's not necessary to duplicate the references in the caption. When the content isn't explained in the text – well, maybe it should be? But if it isn't, then you can add the refs in a short caption if you want, although I think that many editors think that is not, strictly speaking, required (as the refs are one click away, and so it is "verifiABLE" even if it's not "already cited").</dd> <dd>For <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Accessibility" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:Accessibility">WP:Accessibility</a> reasons, it might be good to crop the image, and put some or all of the text in the caption. Imagine, e.g., having the first three faces with a caption that says "Surgical masks, homemade masks, and scarves provide a little protection for the wearer and some protection for people around them", and the last two faces with a caption that says "Respiratory masks provide high protection to the wearer. The ones without a valve provide high protection to other people, but the ones with a valve provide no protection to other people". <a href="/wiki/User:WhatamIdoing" title="User:WhatamIdoing">WhatamIdoing</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:WhatamIdoing" title="User talk:WhatamIdoing">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_136#c-WhatamIdoing-2020-05-07T03:24:00.000Z-HLHJ-2020-05-07T01:04:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">03:24, 7 May 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-WhatamIdoing-2020-05-07T03:24:00.000Z-HLHJ-2020-05-07T01:04:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-WhatamIdoing-2020-05-07T03:24:00.000Z-HLHJ-2020-05-07T01:04:00.000Z"></span></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Colin-2020-05-07T07:56:00.000Z-HLHJ-2020-05-07T01:04:00.000Z"></span>I'm uncomfortable whether this image is in fact permitted. Looking at <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://www.hessenschau.de/panorama/coronavirus--hessen-fuehrt-maskenpflicht-ein--maskentypen-im-ueberblick--buchmesse-soll-stattfinden-,corona-hessen-ticker-178.html#Maskentypen">the first source</a> these look extremely similar. I appreciate they have been "redrawn" that doesn't stop them being a copyvio. The model, the masks and the arrangement of the poster are all essentially identical. Further, the rigid masks look actually rigid in the original whereas in the copy they are just a solid block of cream colour. -- <a href="/wiki/User:Colin" title="User:Colin">Colin</a>°<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Colin" title="User talk:Colin"><sup>Talk</sup></a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_136#c-Colin-2020-05-07T07:56:00.000Z-HLHJ-2020-05-07T01:04:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">07:56, 7 May 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Colin-2020-05-07T07:56:00.000Z-HLHJ-2020-05-07T01:04:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Colin-2020-05-07T07:56:00.000Z-HLHJ-2020-05-07T01:04:00.000Z"></span></dd> <dd><span class="template-ping"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-RexxS-2020-05-07T22:55:00.000Z-HLHJ-2020-05-07T01:04:00.000Z"></span>@<a href="/wiki/User:HLHJ" title="User:HLHJ">HLHJ</a>:</span> They look too similar to the copyrighted originals for me. My biggest issue though is that I can't read the text at thumbnail size. The need to follow a link to another page to read the information is poor design, particularly for mobile users and those with low bandwidths. Wouldn't a wikitable containing text with images just of the masks be smaller and more convenient for readers? --<a href="/wiki/User:RexxS" title="User:RexxS">RexxS</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:RexxS" title="User talk:RexxS">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_136#c-RexxS-2020-05-07T22:55:00.000Z-HLHJ-2020-05-07T01:04:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:55, 7 May 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-RexxS-2020-05-07T22:55:00.000Z-HLHJ-2020-05-07T01:04:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-RexxS-2020-05-07T22:55:00.000Z-HLHJ-2020-05-07T01:04:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-HLHJ-2020-05-08T00:44:00.000Z-RexxS-2020-05-07T22:55:00.000Z"></span>Thank you all for your comments. The illustrator, <a href="/wiki/User:Sciencia58" title="User:Sciencia58">Sciencia58</a>, has <a href="https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Sciencia58#Respiratory_masks_against_the_transmission_of_SARS-CoV-2.png" class="extiw" title="commons:User talk:Sciencia58">responded</a>. She says she modified it from an image copyrighted by the <a href="/wiki/Robert_Koch_Institute" title="Robert Koch Institute">Robert Koch Institute</a>, available from <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://www.hz.de/noise/vergleich-welche-schutzmasken-am-besten-vor-corona-schuetzen-45474087.html">this source</a>, and only the area around the eyes is unchanged. She also modified the captions with reference to the recent literature cited. It is possible that the Robert Koch Institute might be willing to donate the image. I will ask them if people here concur.</dd> <dd>Separately, having individual images of the different types of masks might be useful for a table, which I agree might be a good format, and it would mean we could add new data and even new masks (like the <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.04.17.20069567v3">sheer-nylon-stocking-over-cotton mask</a>, active-coating cloth masks, or cloth masks with electret filter inserts) more easily. I agree with <a href="/wiki/User:Colin" title="User:Colin">Colin</a> that shading helps depict the rigid masks (which I've only seen in white). I think that Sciencia58 has done a better job than the original at distinguishing the surgical mask from the cloth mask by depicting the drape. Adding patterns to the cloth masks (tartan, say, or a traditional cotton sprigged print) might also make their materials more obvious.</dd> <dd>I'm most concerned about MEDRS for the captions. They seem to be sourced from <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://www.baua.de/DE/Themen/Arbeitsgestaltung-im-Betrieb/Coronavirus/pdf/Schutzmasken.pdf?__blob=publicationFile&v=13">this BAUA</a> page. BAUA (the German <a href="/wiki/Federal_Institute_for_Occupational_Safety_and_Health" title="Federal Institute for Occupational Safety and Health">Federal Institute for Occupational Safety and Health</a>) may count as MEDRS, but public health agencies seem to have have issued contradictory statements on this topic. The literature is understandably mostly proxy measures rather than actual infections of anything (why has no public health authority randomized paired communities to mandatory-homemade-masks-in-public and none? if you don't know, it seems the ethical thing to do). Is an electret-filter-interlayer surgical mask no better than a homemade cotton mask or bandanna? I<s>f</s><u>s</u> there evidence that rigid electret respirators are better in practical use than electret surgical masks? Are there any MEDRS on this? These are very important questions. If we can make MEDRS-supported statements about the effectiveness of different types of masks for COVID-19 prevention, we should add that in prose to <a href="/wiki/Face_masks_during_the_COVID-19_pandemic" title="Face masks during the COVID-19 pandemic">Face masks during the COVID-19 pandemic</a>. <a href="/wiki/User:HLHJ" title="User:HLHJ">HLHJ</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:HLHJ" title="User talk:HLHJ">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_136#c-HLHJ-2020-05-08T00:44:00.000Z-RexxS-2020-05-07T22:55:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:44, 8 May 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-HLHJ-2020-05-08T00:44:00.000Z-RexxS-2020-05-07T22:55:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-HLHJ-2020-05-08T00:44:00.000Z-RexxS-2020-05-07T22:55:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Amakuha-2020-05-08T10:37:00.000Z-HLHJ-2020-05-07T01:04:00.000Z"></span>I am most concerned that this image equates surgical masks to mere bandanas, whereas in practice surgical masks are as good as respirators. (<link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1238218222"><a href="/wiki/Doi_(identifier)" class="mw-redirect" title="Doi (identifier)">doi</a>:<a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://doi.org/10.1111%2Fjebm.12381">10.1111/jebm.12381</a>) Therefore, I think, the image is misleading. And that's why I removed it from English Wikipedia. --<a href="/wiki/User:Amakuha" title="User:Amakuha">Amakuha</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Amakuha" title="User talk:Amakuha">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_136#c-Amakuha-2020-05-08T10:37:00.000Z-HLHJ-2020-05-07T01:04:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">10:37, 8 May 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Amakuha-2020-05-08T10:37:00.000Z-HLHJ-2020-05-07T01:04:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Amakuha-2020-05-08T10:37:00.000Z-HLHJ-2020-05-07T01:04:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><a href="/wiki/User:Amakuha" title="User:Amakuha"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-WhatamIdoing-2020-05-08T15:50:00.000Z-Amakuha-2020-05-08T10:37:00.000Z"></span>User:Amakuha</a>, that looks a bit tricky. They mostly didn't get statistically significant results for their top-line results (except for bacterial infections, where N95s were superior). There are only four sentences that include a p-value of the accepted level: <ul><li>The results of subgroup analyses indicated that statistically significant superiority of N95 respirators over surgical masks against influenza like illness (RR = 0.37, 95% CI 0.20‐0.71, P < .05) in the community (only one RCT).</li> <li>However, the sensitivity analysis after excluding the trial by Loeb et al showed a significant effect of N95 respirators on preventing respiratory viral infections (RR = 0.61, 95% CI 0.39‐0.98, P < .05).</li> <li>Meta‐analysis with fixed‐effects model revealed that compared with surgical masks, N95 respirators significantly reduced bacterial colonization in hospitals (RR = 0.58, 95% CI 0.43‐0.78, P < .05)</li> <li>However, the sensitivity analysis after excluding the trial by Radonovich et al showed a significant effect of N95 respirators on preventing respiratory infection (RR = 0.53, 95% CI 0.35‐0.82, P < .05).</li></ul></dd> <dd>All of the sentences saying that the two types are comparable are not statistically significant results. In every instance of statistically significant numbers, it appears that the N95s are better than the surgical masks. I think that it might be fairer to interpret the lack of statistically significant results for viral infections as meaning "no strong evidence that they're better" or "a chance that they're equally effective" than "masks are as good as respirators". <a href="/wiki/User:WhatamIdoing" title="User:WhatamIdoing">WhatamIdoing</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:WhatamIdoing" title="User talk:WhatamIdoing">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_136#c-WhatamIdoing-2020-05-08T15:50:00.000Z-Amakuha-2020-05-08T10:37:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:50, 8 May 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-WhatamIdoing-2020-05-08T15:50:00.000Z-Amakuha-2020-05-08T10:37:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-WhatamIdoing-2020-05-08T15:50:00.000Z-Amakuha-2020-05-08T10:37:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl> <table class="wikitable" align="right"> <caption><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Amakuha-2020-05-08T17:36:00.000Z-Image_needing_MEDRS?"></span>Effectiveness of N95 respirators versus surgical masks against laboratory‐confirmed influenza </caption> <tbody><tr> <th rowspan="2">RCT</th> <th colspan="2">Experimental (N95)</th> <th colspan="2">Control (Surgical) </th></tr> <tr> <th>Cases</th> <th>Total</th> <th>Cases</th> <th>Total </th></tr> <tr> <td>Loeb (2009)</td> <td>48</td> <td>221</td> <td>50</td> <td>225 </td></tr> <tr> <td>MacIntyre (2011)</td> <td>3</td> <td>949</td> <td>5</td> <td>492 </td></tr> <tr> <td>MacIntyre (2013)</td> <td>3</td> <td>581</td> <td>2</td> <td>516 </td></tr> <tr> <td>Radonovich (2019)</td> <td>207</td> <td>2512</td> <td>193</td> <td>2668 </td></tr> <tr> <td>MacIntyre (2009)</td> <td>3</td> <td>186</td> <td>1</td> <td>94 </td></tr> <tr> <th><b>Total</b> </th> <td><b>264</b></td> <td><b>4449</b></td> <td><b>251</b></td> <td><b>3995</b> </td></tr></tbody></table> <dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd>Thanks for pointing it out! Of course, you are right. But I just wanted to point some things out.</dd> <dd>Firstly, I meant the viral infection context (because the image is related to SARS-CoV-2). Bacterial infections (and, thus, general infections) are of lesser interest in regards to the image.</dd> <dd>Secondly, I indeed made a mistake of taking the result for influenza as basis for my statement.</dd> <dd>Thirdly, I am not strong in understanding why would <a href="/wiki/P-value" title="P-value">p-value</a> matter that much. I see these numbers from different good randomized control trials (RCTs) for the flu, and they strongly suggest to me that surgical masks are indeed not worse than N95. (see the table)</dd> <dd>Lastly, my argument was only that surgical masks can be quite effective, almost reaching the levels of protection of N95 (especially if SARS-CoV-2 interacts with masks like a flu). --<a href="/wiki/User:Amakuha" title="User:Amakuha">Amakuha</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Amakuha" title="User talk:Amakuha">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_136#c-Amakuha-2020-05-08T17:36:00.000Z-Image_needing_MEDRS?" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:36, 8 May 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Amakuha-2020-05-08T17:36:00.000Z-Image_needing_MEDRS?"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Amakuha-2020-05-08T17:36:00.000Z-Image_needing_MEDRS?"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-HLHJ-2020-05-08T18:52:00.000Z-Amakuha-2020-05-08T17:36:00.000Z"></span>Another literature review (though for some reason Pubmed does not class it as one): "Most studies on prior respiratory virus epidemic to date suggest surgical masks not to be inferior compared with N95 respirators in terms of protective efficacy among health care workers"<a rel="nofollow" class="external autonumber" href="https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7184993/">[4]</a>(<a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7184993/pdf/main.pdf">temporarily-free PDF</a>). Of course, this says nothing about the risk to <i>patients</i>, a remarkably common flaw in the medical literature on PPE. Have not looked at it closely yet. <a href="/wiki/User:HLHJ" title="User:HLHJ">HLHJ</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:HLHJ" title="User talk:HLHJ">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_136#c-HLHJ-2020-05-08T18:52:00.000Z-Amakuha-2020-05-08T17:36:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:52, 8 May 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-HLHJ-2020-05-08T18:52:00.000Z-Amakuha-2020-05-08T17:36:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-HLHJ-2020-05-08T18:52:00.000Z-Amakuha-2020-05-08T17:36:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-HLHJ-2020-05-09T04:38:00.000Z-HLHJ-2020-05-08T18:52:00.000Z"></span>That review wasn't very useful, but this one is very useful:</dd> <dd><link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1238218222"><cite id="CITEREFGodoyJonesAndersonFisher2020" class="citation journal cs1">Godoy, Laura R. Garcia; Jones, Amy E.; Anderson, Taylor N.; Fisher, Cameron L.; Seeley, Kylie M. L.; Beeson, Erynn A.; Zane, Hannah K.; Peterson, Jaime W.; Sullivan, Peter D. (1 May 2020). <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://gh.bmj.com/content/5/5/e002553">"Facial protection for healthcare workers during pandemics: a scoping review"</a>. <i>BMJ Global Health</i>. <b>5</b> (5): e002553. <a href="/wiki/Doi_(identifier)" class="mw-redirect" title="Doi (identifier)">doi</a>:<a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://doi.org/10.1136%2Fbmjgh-2020-002553">10.1136/bmjgh-2020-002553</a>. <a href="/wiki/ISSN_(identifier)" class="mw-redirect" title="ISSN (identifier)">ISSN</a> <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://search.worldcat.org/issn/2059-7908">2059-7908</a>. <a href="/wiki/PMC_(identifier)" class="mw-redirect" title="PMC (identifier)">PMC</a> <span class="id-lock-free" title="Freely accessible"><a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7228486">7228486</a></span>. <a href="/wiki/PMID_(identifier)" class="mw-redirect" title="PMID (identifier)">PMID</a> <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32371574">32371574</a><span class="reference-accessdate">. Retrieved <span class="nowrap">8 May</span> 2020</span>.</cite><span title="ctx_ver=Z39.88-2004&rft_val_fmt=info%3Aofi%2Ffmt%3Akev%3Amtx%3Ajournal&rft.genre=article&rft.jtitle=BMJ+Global+Health&rft.atitle=Facial+protection+for+healthcare+workers+during+pandemics%3A+a+scoping+review&rft.volume=5&rft.issue=5&rft.pages=e002553&rft.date=2020-05-01&rft_id=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov%2Fpmc%2Farticles%2FPMC7228486%23id-name%3DPMC&rft.issn=2059-7908&rft_id=info%3Apmid%2F32371574&rft_id=info%3Adoi%2F10.1136%2Fbmjgh-2020-002553&rft.aulast=Godoy&rft.aufirst=Laura+R.+Garcia&rft.au=Jones%2C+Amy+E.&rft.au=Anderson%2C+Taylor+N.&rft.au=Fisher%2C+Cameron+L.&rft.au=Seeley%2C+Kylie+M.+L.&rft.au=Beeson%2C+Erynn+A.&rft.au=Zane%2C+Hannah+K.&rft.au=Peterson%2C+Jaime+W.&rft.au=Sullivan%2C+Peter+D.&rft_id=https%3A%2F%2Fgh.bmj.com%2Fcontent%2F5%2F5%2Fe002553&rfr_id=info%3Asid%2Fen.wikipedia.org%3AWikipedia+talk%3AWikiProject+Medicine%2FArchive+136" class="Z3988"></span></dd> <dd>I've added a lot of info from it to <a href="/wiki/Face_masks_during_the_COVID-19_pandemic" title="Face masks during the COVID-19 pandemic">the article</a> (review very welcome). Including the aforementioned sheer-stocking mask, for which I have requested an image.</dd> <dd>On the topic of discussion, it says:"Compared with surgical masks, N95 respirators perform better in laboratory testing, may provide superior protection in inpatient settings and are equivalent in outpatient settings" and "However, studies comparing efficacy of different types of medical-grade masks in the inpatient setting have conflicting results. One non-inferiority RCT of nurses working in medical and paediatric inpatient units found that use of a surgical mask compared with a fit-tested N95 respirator resulted in non-inferior rates of laboratory-confirmed influenza.[22] Several other RCTs found that rates of respiratory infection illness were lower in healthcare workers who used fit-tested N95 respirators compared with those who used surgical masks.[23–25] Similarly, N95 respirators have been shown to provide superior protection against respiratory bacterial infections or bacterial-viral coinfections when compared with surgical masks.[26] The literature regarding mask fit in the inpatient setting is limited to one study. An RCT comparing fit-tested and non-fit-tested N95 respirators found no significant difference in ability to protect against respiratory illness, despite in vitro evidence of significant reduction in filtration efficacy with peripheral air leakage.[24][27] Furthermore, non-fit-tested N95 respirators were significantly more protective than surgical masks.[24]"</dd> <dd>The review is also pretty clear that improvised cloth masks are not as good as commercial disposables, thought it hints at the possibility of making reusable cloth masks to an equally high standard. <a href="/wiki/User:HLHJ" title="User:HLHJ">HLHJ</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:HLHJ" title="User talk:HLHJ">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_136#c-HLHJ-2020-05-09T04:38:00.000Z-HLHJ-2020-05-08T18:52:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">04:38, 9 May 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-HLHJ-2020-05-09T04:38:00.000Z-HLHJ-2020-05-08T18:52:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-HLHJ-2020-05-09T04:38:00.000Z-HLHJ-2020-05-08T18:52:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-HLHJ-2020-05-09T14:56:00.000Z-HLHJ-2020-05-09T04:38:00.000Z"></span>We have an adaptable PD image at <a href="/wiki/File:Three_Key_Factors_Required_for_a_Respirator_to_be_Effective.pdf" title="File:Three Key Factors Required for a Respirator to be Effective.pdf">File:Three Key Factors Required for a Respirator to be Effective.pdf</a>. A full set of individual SVG images of different types of mask would be useful; text to be updated as the info comes. <a href="/wiki/User:HLHJ" title="User:HLHJ">HLHJ</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:HLHJ" title="User talk:HLHJ">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_136#c-HLHJ-2020-05-09T14:56:00.000Z-HLHJ-2020-05-09T04:38:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">14:56, 9 May 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-HLHJ-2020-05-09T14:56:00.000Z-HLHJ-2020-05-09T04:38:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-HLHJ-2020-05-09T14:56:00.000Z-HLHJ-2020-05-09T04:38:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-WhatamIdoing-2020-05-10T06:43:00.000Z-HLHJ-2020-05-08T18:52:00.000Z"></span>I think we should avoid sounding too certain about any of this. We don't know that surgical masks are either inferior <em>or</em> equivalent to N95 respirators. It's possible that both are true, e.g., that they're equivalent for one setting/population/circumstance and inferior in another setting/population/circumstance. It's also possible that the effect size varies by setting/population/circumstance. Perhaps it will turn out like <a href="/wiki/Anti-lock_braking_system" title="Anti-lock braking system">Anti-lock braking systems</a>, which probably save lives overall but which promoted riskier behavior in taxi drivers, so the safety device produced net harms in that population (when they were a new idea; I doubt that it was the case after even a couple of years' experience). People who think they're wearing the "good" PPE may engage in riskier behaviors, too. They may wash their hands less, touch their faces more, spend more time close to contagious people, etc.</dd> <dd>This started not so much with a concern about surgical masks being differentiated from N95s as with surgical masks being equated to a loose scarf. I don't know if that has been studied at all outside the lab. <a href="/wiki/User:WhatamIdoing" title="User:WhatamIdoing">WhatamIdoing</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:WhatamIdoing" title="User talk:WhatamIdoing">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_136#c-WhatamIdoing-2020-05-10T06:43:00.000Z-HLHJ-2020-05-08T18:52:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">06:43, 10 May 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-WhatamIdoing-2020-05-10T06:43:00.000Z-HLHJ-2020-05-08T18:52:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-WhatamIdoing-2020-05-10T06:43:00.000Z-HLHJ-2020-05-08T18:52:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Sciencia58-2020-05-12T12:05:00.000Z-Image_needing_MEDRS?"></span><figure class="mw-default-size" typeof="mw:File/Thumb"><a href="/wiki/File:Materialien_f%C3%BCr_Masken_-_Filterwirkung.png" class="mw-file-description"><img src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/67/Materialien_f%C3%BCr_Masken_-_Filterwirkung.png/220px-Materialien_f%C3%BCr_Masken_-_Filterwirkung.png" decoding="async" width="220" height="193" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/67/Materialien_f%C3%BCr_Masken_-_Filterwirkung.png/330px-Materialien_f%C3%BCr_Masken_-_Filterwirkung.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/67/Materialien_f%C3%BCr_Masken_-_Filterwirkung.png/440px-Materialien_f%C3%BCr_Masken_-_Filterwirkung.png 2x" data-file-width="1740" data-file-height="1528"/></a><figcaption></figcaption></figure></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <p>I made some more changes in the coloured image. I also completed the labeling so it doesn't look like the homemade ones are equivalent to the normal surgical masks. Today I made this grafic comparing different materials <a rel="nofollow" class="external autonumber" href="https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7108646/">[5]</a>. I can make the same in english later. One this grafic one can see, that the surgery masks are more effectiv. The authors of the literature source write that they did not want to use too dangerous pathogens for this test in order not to endanger the people present. The filter effect in the series of experiments with the virus-containing aerosol can be considered exemplary. The results are transferable to aerosols containing other viruses. Table in the literature source: The filter effect with the bacterium (left column) is higher because bacteria are considerably larger than viruses and can only be present in droplets of a corresponding size. The larger droplets are better captured by the substance used. <a href="/wiki/User:Sciencia58" title="User:Sciencia58">Sciencia58</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Sciencia58" title="User talk:Sciencia58">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_136#c-Sciencia58-2020-05-12T12:05:00.000Z-Image_needing_MEDRS?" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">12:05, 12 May 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Sciencia58-2020-05-12T12:05:00.000Z-Image_needing_MEDRS?"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Sciencia58-2020-05-12T12:05:00.000Z-Image_needing_MEDRS?"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Sciencia58-2020-05-12T10:32:00.000Z-Sciencia58-2020-05-12T12:05:00.000Z"></span>Can you please delete all older versions of this image <a class="external autonumber" href="https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Respiratory_masks_against_the_transmission_of_SARS-CoV-2.png">[6]</a> and this image <a class="external autonumber" href="https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Masken_gegen_die_%C3%9Cbertragung_von_Corona-Viren.png">[7]</a> and delete this one completely <a class="external autonumber" href="https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Masken_-_Schutz_vor_Viren.png">[8]</a>. The latest versions in German and English are different enough from the template. The older ones aren't. <a href="/wiki/User:Sciencia58" title="User:Sciencia58">Sciencia58</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Sciencia58" title="User talk:Sciencia58">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_136#c-Sciencia58-2020-05-12T10:32:00.000Z-Sciencia58-2020-05-12T12:05:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">10:32, 12 May 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Sciencia58-2020-05-12T10:32:00.000Z-Sciencia58-2020-05-12T12:05:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Sciencia58-2020-05-12T10:32:00.000Z-Sciencia58-2020-05-12T12:05:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-WhatamIdoing-2020-05-13T04:58:00.000Z-Sciencia58-2020-05-12T10:32:00.000Z"></span>I don't know if they will get deleted. Commons has strange rules, and "not accurate" is usually not considered a reason for deletion there. <a href="/wiki/User:WhatamIdoing" title="User:WhatamIdoing">WhatamIdoing</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:WhatamIdoing" title="User talk:WhatamIdoing">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_136#c-WhatamIdoing-2020-05-13T04:58:00.000Z-Sciencia58-2020-05-12T10:32:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">04:58, 13 May 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-WhatamIdoing-2020-05-13T04:58:00.000Z-Sciencia58-2020-05-12T10:32:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-WhatamIdoing-2020-05-13T04:58:00.000Z-Sciencia58-2020-05-12T10:32:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Sciencia58-2020-05-12T12:08:00.000Z-Image_needing_MEDRS?"></span><figure class="mw-default-size mw-halign-left" typeof="mw:File/Thumb"><a href="/wiki/File:Materials_for_homemade_masks_-_efficiency.png" class="mw-file-description"><img src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c0/Materials_for_homemade_masks_-_efficiency.png/220px-Materials_for_homemade_masks_-_efficiency.png" decoding="async" width="220" height="193" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c0/Materials_for_homemade_masks_-_efficiency.png/330px-Materials_for_homemade_masks_-_efficiency.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c0/Materials_for_homemade_masks_-_efficiency.png/440px-Materials_for_homemade_masks_-_efficiency.png 2x" data-file-width="1740" data-file-height="1528"/></a><figcaption>Efficiency of different materials for homemade masks</figcaption></figure></dd></dl> <p>Here it is, showing the differece between surgical masks and homemade masks, but also showing, that the homemade masks are better than nothing. <a href="/wiki/User:Sciencia58" title="User:Sciencia58">Sciencia58</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Sciencia58" title="User talk:Sciencia58">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_136#c-Sciencia58-2020-05-12T12:08:00.000Z-Image_needing_MEDRS?" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">12:08, 12 May 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Sciencia58-2020-05-12T12:08:00.000Z-Image_needing_MEDRS?"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Sciencia58-2020-05-12T12:08:00.000Z-Image_needing_MEDRS?"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Sciencia58-2020-05-12T18:53:00.000Z-Sciencia58-2020-05-12T12:08:00.000Z"></span>I made some more changes to the labeling of the coloured image above, now it should be in accordance with the technical literature and the grey table. <a href="/wiki/User:Sciencia58" title="User:Sciencia58">Sciencia58</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Sciencia58" title="User talk:Sciencia58">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_136#c-Sciencia58-2020-05-12T18:53:00.000Z-Sciencia58-2020-05-12T12:08:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:53, 12 May 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Sciencia58-2020-05-12T18:53:00.000Z-Sciencia58-2020-05-12T12:08:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Sciencia58-2020-05-12T18:53:00.000Z-Sciencia58-2020-05-12T12:08:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-HLHJ-2020-05-13T05:10:00.000Z-Sciencia58-2020-05-12T18:53:00.000Z"></span>I agree with <a href="/wiki/User:WhatamIdoing" title="User:WhatamIdoing">WhatamIdoing</a> on the uncertainty. <a href="/wiki/Face_masks_during_the_COVID-19_pandemic" title="Face masks during the COVID-19 pandemic">Face masks during the COVID-19 pandemic</a> currently says "Although they [improvised cloth masks] are less effective than medical-grade masks... Improvised cloth masks seem to be worse than standard commercial disposable masks, but better than nothing. There is, however, little good evidence on them... However, in practice, with respect to some infections like influenza surgical masks appear as effective as respirators (such as N95 or FFP masks)". The MEDRS at the moment are largely low-level descriptions of individual studies. On your graph, <a href="/wiki/User:Sciencia58" title="User:Sciencia58">Sciencia58</a>, I'm afraid it may also be afflicted by that uncertainty. It seems scarves are often high-porosity and not very useful filters, although scarves vary widely. T-shirts and bedsheets also vary widely. See <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://smartairfilters.com/en/blog/best-diy-coronavirus-homemade-mask-material-covid/">this reliable-looking but non-peer-reviewed source</a>.</dd> <dd>Frankly, I doubt we can give hard-and-fast info until someone develops standards-supported washable mask material (this is actually happening, it seems). General rules, like a preference for fabrics with small-diameter, rough-textured fibers, fine weaves/nonwoven textures, and no large pores, would probably be more useful than raw primary lab data. However, supporting such statements with MEDRS is currently difficult. We have a problem that the medics writing the medrs have no idea how to functionally describe cloth; they need some textile-engineer co-authors.</dd> <dd>There is also exactly one RCT of cloth masks, and it gives only one datapoint describing the masks, a generic filtration efficiency, which is very low compared to the other measurements of cloth masks in the literature. It also seems to have a fair number of statistical problems. The evidence base in the effects of cloth masks on actual disease spread is almost non-existent, despite the widespread non-epidemic use of unstandardized cloth masks, essentially mass-produced improvised cloth masks, in poorer countries. <a href="/wiki/User:HLHJ" title="User:HLHJ">HLHJ</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:HLHJ" title="User talk:HLHJ">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_136#c-HLHJ-2020-05-13T05:10:00.000Z-Sciencia58-2020-05-12T18:53:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">05:10, 13 May 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-HLHJ-2020-05-13T05:10:00.000Z-Sciencia58-2020-05-12T18:53:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-HLHJ-2020-05-13T05:10:00.000Z-Sciencia58-2020-05-12T18:53:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Sciencia58-2020-05-13T06:11:00.000Z-HLHJ-2020-05-13T05:10:00.000Z"></span>The number of layers of fabric and whether the mask fits tightly all around so that no breathing air escapes at the sides or upwards also plays a role. The word scarf has little meaning because there are thin and thick scarves. If an infected person has a thick scarf over his mouth and nose, he can certainly reduce the amount of droplets released. The fact that homemade masks get damp on the inside when worn is proof that they absorb released droplets. For the time being, we have to live with the fact that we do not yet have any studies that clearly describe the types of materials of cloth-masks. We are currently working on this article in the German Wikipedia <a class="external autonumber" href="https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alltagsmaske">[9]</a>. <a href="/wiki/Christian_Drosten" title="Christian Drosten">Christian Drosten</a> says, and this is also my experience, that wearing a mask is very effective in promoting social distancing because it reminds other people that they have to keep their distance. So wearing a homemade fabric mask is also an important social gesture, because we are not used to behaving like this and quickly forget it if we are not reminded. My overview with the colored pictures should only serve to make it easier for the layman to recognize and distinguish the mask types and to know the designations. In the past this was only relevant for medical staff, today everybody has to be familiar with it. The more precise distinctions can be found in the article texts. The 2020 study found that oral and nasal protection significantly reduces the release of influenza viruses and seasonal corona viruses, especially when not only the staff, but especially the infected person is equipped with it, and that transmission can thus be reduced <a rel="nofollow" class="external autonumber" href="https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-020-0843-2">[10]</a>. This also applies for homemade masks, although they are less effectiv. It should be emphasized in the article texts, that it is about protecting the other people. <a href="/wiki/User:Sciencia58" title="User:Sciencia58">Sciencia58</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Sciencia58" title="User talk:Sciencia58">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_136#c-Sciencia58-2020-05-13T06:11:00.000Z-HLHJ-2020-05-13T05:10:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">06:11, 13 May 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Sciencia58-2020-05-13T06:11:00.000Z-HLHJ-2020-05-13T05:10:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Sciencia58-2020-05-13T06:11:00.000Z-HLHJ-2020-05-13T05:10:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Sciencia58-2020-05-13T06:43:00.000Z-HLHJ-2020-05-13T05:10:00.000Z"></span>The bad thing about SARS-CoV-2 is that it is already contagious at the end of the incubation period. I do not know when my first cough will come. Coughing is a reflex, it can come as a surprise to myself. So I can be glad to have a cloth around my mouth and nose. Video: <a rel="nofollow" class="external autonumber" href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jgoTMOgb3Ds">[11]</a> <a href="/wiki/User:Sciencia58" title="User:Sciencia58">Sciencia58</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Sciencia58" title="User talk:Sciencia58">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_136#c-Sciencia58-2020-05-13T06:43:00.000Z-HLHJ-2020-05-13T05:10:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">06:43, 13 May 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Sciencia58-2020-05-13T06:43:00.000Z-HLHJ-2020-05-13T05:10:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Sciencia58-2020-05-13T06:43:00.000Z-HLHJ-2020-05-13T05:10:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Sciencia58-2020-05-13T07:06:00.000Z-HLHJ-2020-05-13T05:10:00.000Z"></span>Thank you for this link <a rel="nofollow" class="external autonumber" href="https://smartairfilters.com/en/blog/best-diy-coronavirus-homemade-mask-material-covid/">[12]</a>. <a href="/wiki/User:Sciencia58" title="User:Sciencia58">Sciencia58</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Sciencia58" title="User talk:Sciencia58">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_136#c-Sciencia58-2020-05-13T07:06:00.000Z-HLHJ-2020-05-13T05:10:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">07:06, 13 May 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Sciencia58-2020-05-13T07:06:00.000Z-HLHJ-2020-05-13T05:10:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Sciencia58-2020-05-13T07:06:00.000Z-HLHJ-2020-05-13T05:10:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-HLHJ-2020-05-14T00:30:00.000Z-Sciencia58-2020-05-13T07:06:00.000Z"></span>No problem. Actually, all of that <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://smartairfilters.com/en/blog/tag/covid-19/">SmartAir</a> website is interesting; COVID-19 masks from the perspective of the HVAC engineers of a <a href="/wiki/Social_enterprise" title="Social enterprise">social enterprise</a> against air pollution.</dd> <dd>I would be utterly fascinated by MEDRS on the effect of masks on social distancing compliance. I like the idea of having coloured pictures of mask types, but if they were individual images without caption text in the image, it would be easier to update as the research advances. I won't be around here for a bit, but I favour getting clearly copyright-unencumbered pictures of mask types like yours. <a href="/wiki/User:HLHJ" title="User:HLHJ">HLHJ</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:HLHJ" title="User talk:HLHJ">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_136#c-HLHJ-2020-05-14T00:30:00.000Z-Sciencia58-2020-05-13T07:06:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:30, 14 May 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-HLHJ-2020-05-14T00:30:00.000Z-Sciencia58-2020-05-13T07:06:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-HLHJ-2020-05-14T00:30:00.000Z-Sciencia58-2020-05-13T07:06:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Lente_insulin_Comment" data-mw-thread-id="h-Lente_insulin_Comment-2020-05-12T00:32:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Lente_insulin_Comment-2020-05-12T00:32:00.000Z"></span><a href="/wiki/Lente_insulin" title="Lente insulin">Lente insulin</a> Comment<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Lente_insulin_Comment-2020-05-12T00:32:00.000Z"></span></h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Berchanhimez-2020-05-12T00:32:00.000Z-Lente_insulin_Comment"></span>Hi there. I think I may have bit off more than I can chew. Long story short, a few weeks ago, I was poking around and realized that Wikipedia only had a couple sentences on ultralente insulin and no article at all on lente insulin. I spent a couple weeks (in my "free" time - much more loosely defined during COVID as when the conference call is being derailed and I can't be bothered to pay full attention) reading up on how to make an article... and decided to just go for it. I'm not sure if I could've created this as a Draft: article because the pages already existed (lente redirected to list of diabetes terms and ultralente was a short stub) - if so I apologize (and if it needs changed please fix my mistakes). But, now that I've actually gotten into writing the information, trying to follow PHARMMOS and MEDRS which are the two things I've found that look to me to be the policy behind medical related articles... it's hard. I'm not sure I'm doing exactly what I'm supposed to with regards to the sourcing, the citations themselves, and the sectioning of the page - heck, I'm not even sure if I'm making a step in the right direction. </p><p>Is there any way someone experienced in medical articles could either pop and take a look, or even better be willing to help me make the <a href="/wiki/Lente_insulin" title="Lente insulin">Lente insulin</a> article? Any advice at all would be helpful, no matter how small. I have lots of extra time on my hands due to COVID and figured since I noticed this wasn't something in Wikipedia I'd try to help fix that - but it's very daunting to try and do everything properly. <span title="How to pronounce Berchanhimez in the International Phonetic Alphabet (IPA)" class="IPA">bɜ:ʳkənhɪmez</span> (<a href="/wiki/User:Berchanhimez" title="User:Berchanhimez">User</a>/<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Berchanhimez" title="User talk:Berchanhimez">say hi!</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_136#c-Berchanhimez-2020-05-12T00:32:00.000Z-Lente_insulin_Comment" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:32, 12 May 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Berchanhimez-2020-05-12T00:32:00.000Z-Lente_insulin_Comment"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Berchanhimez-2020-05-12T00:32:00.000Z-Lente_insulin_Comment"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-WhatamIdoing-2020-05-13T05:09:00.000Z-Berchanhimez-2020-05-12T00:32:00.000Z"></span>Welcome to Wikipedia, <a href="/wiki/User:Berchanhimez" title="User:Berchanhimez">Berchanhimez</a>, and welcome to WikiProject Medicine. (A <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject">WP:WikiProject</a> is a group of editors that wants to work together.) I am just amazed and impressed with what you've already accomplished. You should be proud to have managed so much in just two days. Congratulations. <a href="/wiki/User:WhatamIdoing" title="User:WhatamIdoing">WhatamIdoing</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:WhatamIdoing" title="User talk:WhatamIdoing">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_136#c-WhatamIdoing-2020-05-13T05:09:00.000Z-Berchanhimez-2020-05-12T00:32:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">05:09, 13 May 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-WhatamIdoing-2020-05-13T05:09:00.000Z-Berchanhimez-2020-05-12T00:32:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-WhatamIdoing-2020-05-13T05:09:00.000Z-Berchanhimez-2020-05-12T00:32:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Berchanhimez-2020-05-13T06:02:00.000Z-WhatamIdoing-2020-05-13T05:09:00.000Z"></span>I had to look up how to give you a notifitcation (I think this is it? <span class="template-ping">@<a href="/wiki/User:WhatamIdoing" title="User:WhatamIdoing">WhatamIdoing</a>:</span>) but thanks! It came after a lot of reservation (I never had enough time to actually get into it aside from minor unregistered typoes and stuff) until COVID and this situation gave me the time and I noticed an article that wasn't there. I'm guessing that means that I'm at least doing moderately okay? <span title="How to pronounce Berchanhimez in the International Phonetic Alphabet (IPA)" class="IPA">bɜ:ʳkənhɪmez</span> (<a href="/wiki/User:Berchanhimez" title="User:Berchanhimez">User</a>/<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Berchanhimez" title="User talk:Berchanhimez">say hi!</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_136#c-Berchanhimez-2020-05-13T06:02:00.000Z-WhatamIdoing-2020-05-13T05:09:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">06:02, 13 May 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Berchanhimez-2020-05-13T06:02:00.000Z-WhatamIdoing-2020-05-13T05:09:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Berchanhimez-2020-05-13T06:02:00.000Z-WhatamIdoing-2020-05-13T05:09:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-WhatamIdoing-2020-05-13T20:02:00.000Z-Berchanhimez-2020-05-13T06:02:00.000Z"></span>It's looking pretty good, and it looks like a couple of other editors have made a few edits, too. What's next on your list? <a href="/wiki/User:WhatamIdoing" title="User:WhatamIdoing">WhatamIdoing</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:WhatamIdoing" title="User talk:WhatamIdoing">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_136#c-WhatamIdoing-2020-05-13T20:02:00.000Z-Berchanhimez-2020-05-13T06:02:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:02, 13 May 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-WhatamIdoing-2020-05-13T20:02:00.000Z-Berchanhimez-2020-05-13T06:02:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-WhatamIdoing-2020-05-13T20:02:00.000Z-Berchanhimez-2020-05-13T06:02:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-WhatamIdoing-2020-05-13T20:04:00.000Z-WhatamIdoing-2020-05-13T20:02:00.000Z"></span>Oh, <a href="/wiki/User:Berchanhimez" title="User:Berchanhimez">Berchanhimez</a>, do you have any interest in seeing this new article mentioned on the <a href="/wiki/Main_Page" title="Main Page">Main Page</a>? The <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Did_you_know" title="Wikipedia:Did you know">Wikipedia:Did you know</a> section is for brand-new articles. <a href="/wiki/User:WhatamIdoing" title="User:WhatamIdoing">WhatamIdoing</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:WhatamIdoing" title="User talk:WhatamIdoing">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_136#c-WhatamIdoing-2020-05-13T20:04:00.000Z-WhatamIdoing-2020-05-13T20:02:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:04, 13 May 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-WhatamIdoing-2020-05-13T20:04:00.000Z-WhatamIdoing-2020-05-13T20:02:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-WhatamIdoing-2020-05-13T20:04:00.000Z-WhatamIdoing-2020-05-13T20:02:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><a href="/wiki/User:WhatamIdoing" title="User:WhatamIdoing"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Berchanhimez-2020-05-13T20:06:00.000Z-WhatamIdoing-2020-05-13T20:04:00.000Z"></span>User:WhatamIdoing</a> - that would be neat to have it, but I'm not really sure what that would entail. <span title="How to pronounce Berchanhimez in the International Phonetic Alphabet (IPA)" class="IPA">bɜ:ʳkənhɪmez</span> (<a href="/wiki/User:Berchanhimez" title="User:Berchanhimez">User</a>/<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Berchanhimez" title="User talk:Berchanhimez">say hi!</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_136#c-Berchanhimez-2020-05-13T20:06:00.000Z-WhatamIdoing-2020-05-13T20:04:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:06, 13 May 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Berchanhimez-2020-05-13T20:06:00.000Z-WhatamIdoing-2020-05-13T20:04:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Berchanhimez-2020-05-13T20:06:00.000Z-WhatamIdoing-2020-05-13T20:04:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><a href="/wiki/User:Berchanhimez" title="User:Berchanhimez"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-WhatamIdoing-2020-05-13T23:22:00.000Z-Berchanhimez-2020-05-13T20:06:00.000Z"></span>Berchanhimez</a>, the DYK process is very old and therefore a bit kludgy, but I think you can manage it. Start with the directions at <a href="/wiki/Template_talk:Did_you_know#How_to_list_a_new_nomination" title="Template talk:Did you know">Template talk:Did you know#How to list a new nomination</a>. It's not as hard as it looks. You need to come up with a "fun" question that begins with the words "Did you know..." This is your first DYK nomination, so you don't need to worry about reviewing anyone else's. Don't worry about getting the process wrong. If it doesn't end up in the right place, there will always be someone who can help you sort it out. <a href="/wiki/User:WhatamIdoing" title="User:WhatamIdoing">WhatamIdoing</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:WhatamIdoing" title="User talk:WhatamIdoing">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_136#c-WhatamIdoing-2020-05-13T23:22:00.000Z-Berchanhimez-2020-05-13T20:06:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:22, 13 May 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-WhatamIdoing-2020-05-13T23:22:00.000Z-Berchanhimez-2020-05-13T20:06:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-WhatamIdoing-2020-05-13T23:22:00.000Z-Berchanhimez-2020-05-13T20:06:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Berchanhimez-2020-05-14T01:38:00.000Z-Lente_insulin_Comment"></span>Thanks <span class="template-ping">@<a href="/wiki/User:WhatamIdoing" title="User:WhatamIdoing">WhatamIdoing</a>:</span>, I’ve tried to do that so maybe it can make something happen. There’s a lot more to Wikipedia than just writing - but I’m glad I’m able to make a meaningful contribution! Thanks for your help! Will keep working on the article and eventually on some others that I’ve noticed as well. <span title="How to pronounce Berchanhimez in the International Phonetic Alphabet (IPA)" class="IPA">bɜ:ʳkənhɪmez</span> (<a href="/wiki/User:Berchanhimez" title="User:Berchanhimez">User</a>/<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Berchanhimez" title="User talk:Berchanhimez">say hi!</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_136#c-Berchanhimez-2020-05-14T01:38:00.000Z-Lente_insulin_Comment" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:38, 14 May 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Berchanhimez-2020-05-14T01:38:00.000Z-Lente_insulin_Comment"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Berchanhimez-2020-05-14T01:38:00.000Z-Lente_insulin_Comment"></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Paediatric_multisystem_inflammatory_syndrome" data-mw-thread-id="h-Paediatric_multisystem_inflammatory_syndrome-2020-05-14T10:27:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Paediatric_multisystem_inflammatory_syndrome-2020-05-14T10:27:00.000Z"></span><a href="/wiki/Paediatric_multisystem_inflammatory_syndrome" class="mw-redirect" title="Paediatric multisystem inflammatory syndrome">Paediatric multisystem inflammatory syndrome</a><span data-mw-comment-end="h-Paediatric_multisystem_inflammatory_syndrome-2020-05-14T10:27:00.000Z"></span></h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-86.134.212.26-2020-05-14T10:27:00.000Z-Paediatric_multisystem_inflammatory_syndrome"></span>Commented at <a href="/wiki/Talk:Paediatric_multisystem_inflammatory_syndrome#Need_to_follow_reliable_medical_sourcing" class="mw-redirect" title="Talk:Paediatric multisystem inflammatory syndrome">Talk:Paediatric multisystem inflammatory syndrome#Need to follow reliable medical sourcing</a>. <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/86.134.212.26" title="Special:Contributions/86.134.212.26">86.134.212.26</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:86.134.212.26" title="User talk:86.134.212.26">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_136#c-86.134.212.26-2020-05-14T10:27:00.000Z-Paediatric_multisystem_inflammatory_syndrome" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">10:27, 14 May 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-86.134.212.26-2020-05-14T10:27:00.000Z-Paediatric_multisystem_inflammatory_syndrome"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-86.134.212.26-2020-05-14T10:27:00.000Z-Paediatric_multisystem_inflammatory_syndrome"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-WhatamIdoing-2020-05-14T18:26:00.000Z-86.134.212.26-2020-05-14T10:27:00.000Z"></span>Behind this bland title is the "COVID toes in kids" thing. <a href="/wiki/User:WhatamIdoing" title="User:WhatamIdoing">WhatamIdoing</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:WhatamIdoing" title="User talk:WhatamIdoing">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_136#c-WhatamIdoing-2020-05-14T18:26:00.000Z-86.134.212.26-2020-05-14T10:27:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:26, 14 May 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-WhatamIdoing-2020-05-14T18:26:00.000Z-86.134.212.26-2020-05-14T10:27:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-WhatamIdoing-2020-05-14T18:26:00.000Z-86.134.212.26-2020-05-14T10:27:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-86.134.212.26-2020-05-15T19:30:00.000Z-WhatamIdoing-2020-05-14T18:26:00.000Z"></span>(<a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/11455294/rare-coronavirus-symptom-covid-toes-kids/">no kidding</a> WAID? - scarcely MEDRS-compliant though... ;-) <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/86.134.212.26" title="Special:Contributions/86.134.212.26">86.134.212.26</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:86.134.212.26" title="User talk:86.134.212.26">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_136#c-86.134.212.26-2020-05-15T19:30:00.000Z-WhatamIdoing-2020-05-14T18:26:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:30, 15 May 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-86.134.212.26-2020-05-15T19:30:00.000Z-WhatamIdoing-2020-05-14T18:26:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-86.134.212.26-2020-05-15T19:30:00.000Z-WhatamIdoing-2020-05-14T18:26:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Operation_Warp_Speed" data-mw-thread-id="h-Operation_Warp_Speed-2020-05-16T01:06:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Operation_Warp_Speed-2020-05-16T01:06:00.000Z"></span><a href="/wiki/Operation_Warp_Speed" title="Operation Warp Speed">Operation Warp Speed</a><span data-mw-comment-end="h-Operation_Warp_Speed-2020-05-16T01:06:00.000Z"></span></h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Buckshot06-2020-05-16T01:06:00.000Z-Operation_Warp_Speed"></span>Dear WP Medicine, I have just created this article. I am overwhelmingly a military editor, so my expertise is all in that area. Please feel free to fix, amend, update, etc. <a href="/wiki/User:Buckshot06" title="User:Buckshot06">Buckshot06</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Buckshot06" title="User talk:Buckshot06">(talk)</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_136#c-Buckshot06-2020-05-16T01:06:00.000Z-Operation_Warp_Speed" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:06, 16 May 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Buckshot06-2020-05-16T01:06:00.000Z-Operation_Warp_Speed"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Buckshot06-2020-05-16T01:06:00.000Z-Operation_Warp_Speed"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Markworthen-2020-05-16T04:32:00.000Z-Buckshot06-2020-05-16T01:06:00.000Z"></span>Thank you <a href="/wiki/User:Buckshot06" title="User:Buckshot06">Buckshot06</a>. :) I added some more content to the article (<a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Operation_Warp_Speed&type=revision&diff=956940815&oldid=956918493&diffmode=source">diff</a>), added a short description, and assessed the article as Start-class. <a href="/wiki/User:Markworthen" title="User:Markworthen"><span style="color:#539;"> - Mark D Worthen PsyD</span></a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Markworthen" title="User talk:Markworthen"><span style="color:#64B;">(talk)</span></a> <small><small>(I'm a man—traditional male pronouns are fine.)</small></small> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_136#c-Markworthen-2020-05-16T04:32:00.000Z-Buckshot06-2020-05-16T01:06:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">04:32, 16 May 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Markworthen-2020-05-16T04:32:00.000Z-Buckshot06-2020-05-16T01:06:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Markworthen-2020-05-16T04:32:00.000Z-Buckshot06-2020-05-16T01:06:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Buckshot06-2020-05-16T06:58:00.000Z-Markworthen-2020-05-16T04:32:00.000Z"></span>Thankyou. I hope for the sake of the people of the United States of America that some or other arrangements actually improve the response to this pandemic. The USA is being pretty hard hit right now. <a href="/wiki/User:Buckshot06" title="User:Buckshot06">Buckshot06</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Buckshot06" title="User talk:Buckshot06">(talk)</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_136#c-Buckshot06-2020-05-16T06:58:00.000Z-Markworthen-2020-05-16T04:32:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">06:58, 16 May 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Buckshot06-2020-05-16T06:58:00.000Z-Markworthen-2020-05-16T04:32:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Buckshot06-2020-05-16T06:58:00.000Z-Markworthen-2020-05-16T04:32:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Circumcision_etc" data-mw-thread-id="h-Circumcision_etc-2020-05-15T08:18:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Circumcision_etc-2020-05-15T08:18:00.000Z"></span>Circumcision etc<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Circumcision_etc-2020-05-15T08:18:00.000Z"></span></h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <ul><li><span class="plainlinks"><a href="/wiki/Brian_Morris_(biologist)" title="Brian Morris (biologist)"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Alexbrn-2020-05-15T08:18:00.000Z-Circumcision_etc"></span>Brian Morris (biologist)</a> <span class="plainlinks">(<a href="/wiki/Special:EditPage/Brian_Morris_(biologist)" title="Special:EditPage/Brian Morris (biologist)">edit</a> | <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Brian_Morris_(biologist)&veaction=edit">visual edit</a> | <a href="/wiki/Special:PageHistory/Brian_Morris_(biologist)" title="Special:PageHistory/Brian Morris (biologist)">history</a>)</span> <b>·</b> <a href="/wiki/Talk:Brian_Morris_(biologist)" title="Talk:Brian Morris (biologist)"><b>Article talk</b></a> <span class="plainlinks">(<a href="/wiki/Special:EditPage/Talk:Brian_Morris_(biologist)" title="Special:EditPage/Talk:Brian Morris (biologist)">edit</a> | <a href="/wiki/Special:PageHistory/Talk:Brian_Morris_(biologist)" title="Special:PageHistory/Talk:Brian Morris (biologist)">history</a>)</span> <b>·</b> <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Brian_Morris_(biologist)&action=watch"><b>Watch</b></a></span></li></ul> <p>Got a new account repeatedly trying to alter Morris's bio - could use eyes. As a circumcision researcher he attracts a lot of attention. More generally, the circumcision articles could do with being on more watchlists I think. They're on mine and the work this entails makes me think I'm being punished for some transgression in a past life ... <a href="/wiki/User:Alexbrn" class="mw-redirect" title="User:Alexbrn">Alexbrn</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Alexbrn" class="mw-redirect" title="User talk:Alexbrn">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_136#c-Alexbrn-2020-05-15T08:18:00.000Z-Circumcision_etc" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">08:18, 15 May 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Alexbrn-2020-05-15T08:18:00.000Z-Circumcision_etc"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Alexbrn-2020-05-15T08:18:00.000Z-Circumcision_etc"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-CV9933-2020-05-15T11:14:00.000Z-Alexbrn-2020-05-15T08:18:00.000Z"></span>In the meantime, I didn't notice your name <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Unsuccessful_adminship_candidacies/A">here</a>, perhaps you just need the bit to do your job more effectively? <a href="/wiki/User:CV9933" title="User:CV9933">CV9933</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:CV9933" title="User talk:CV9933">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_136#c-CV9933-2020-05-15T11:14:00.000Z-Alexbrn-2020-05-15T08:18:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">11:14, 15 May 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-CV9933-2020-05-15T11:14:00.000Z-Alexbrn-2020-05-15T08:18:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-CV9933-2020-05-15T11:14:00.000Z-Alexbrn-2020-05-15T08:18:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><small><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Alexbrn-2020-05-15T11:25:00.000Z-CV9933-2020-05-15T11:14:00.000Z"></span>Surely my past life transgressions aren't <u>so</u> bad as to deserve an RfA? <a href="/wiki/User:Alexbrn" class="mw-redirect" title="User:Alexbrn">Alexbrn</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Alexbrn" class="mw-redirect" title="User talk:Alexbrn">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_136#c-Alexbrn-2020-05-15T11:25:00.000Z-CV9933-2020-05-15T11:14:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">11:25, 15 May 2020 (UTC)</a></small><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Alexbrn-2020-05-15T11:25:00.000Z-CV9933-2020-05-15T11:14:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Alexbrn-2020-05-15T11:25:00.000Z-CV9933-2020-05-15T11:14:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><small><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Natureium-2020-05-17T02:33:00.000Z-Alexbrn-2020-05-15T11:25:00.000Z"></span> Saying that your name belongs on the list of unsuccessful RfAs does seem a bit cruel. <a href="/wiki/User:Natureium" title="User:Natureium">Natureium</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Natureium" title="User talk:Natureium">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_136#c-Natureium-2020-05-17T02:33:00.000Z-Alexbrn-2020-05-15T11:25:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:33, 17 May 2020 (UTC)</a> </small><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Natureium-2020-05-17T02:33:00.000Z-Alexbrn-2020-05-15T11:25:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Natureium-2020-05-17T02:33:00.000Z-Alexbrn-2020-05-15T11:25:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><small><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-CV9933-2020-05-17T12:11:00.000Z-Natureium-2020-05-17T02:33:00.000Z"></span> Who said that then? <a href="/wiki/User:CV9933" title="User:CV9933">CV9933</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:CV9933" title="User talk:CV9933">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_136#c-CV9933-2020-05-17T12:11:00.000Z-Natureium-2020-05-17T02:33:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">12:11, 17 May 2020 (UTC)</a> </small><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-CV9933-2020-05-17T12:11:00.000Z-Natureium-2020-05-17T02:33:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-CV9933-2020-05-17T12:11:00.000Z-Natureium-2020-05-17T02:33:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><small><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-WhatamIdoing-2020-05-17T23:24:00.000Z-CV9933-2020-05-17T12:11:00.000Z"></span>I think this comment is because you linked to the list of <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Unsuccessful_adminship_candidacies" title="Wikipedia:Unsuccessful adminship candidacies">Wikipedia:Unsuccessful adminship candidacies</a>. I do like Alex's idea that we're using RFA to punish editors. <a href="/wiki/No_good_deed_goes_unpunished" title="No good deed goes unpunished">No good deed goes unpunished</a>, and maybe some bad ones could be handled the same way. "Oh, you screwed up big time? It's off to <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:RFA" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:RFA">WP:RFA</a> with you, pal." <a href="/wiki/User:WhatamIdoing" title="User:WhatamIdoing">WhatamIdoing</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:WhatamIdoing" title="User talk:WhatamIdoing">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_136#c-WhatamIdoing-2020-05-17T23:24:00.000Z-CV9933-2020-05-17T12:11:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:24, 17 May 2020 (UTC)</a></small><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-WhatamIdoing-2020-05-17T23:24:00.000Z-CV9933-2020-05-17T12:11:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-WhatamIdoing-2020-05-17T23:24:00.000Z-CV9933-2020-05-17T12:11:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><small><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-RexxS-2020-05-18T03:59:00.000Z-WhatamIdoing-2020-05-17T23:24:00.000Z"></span>Don't you Yanks have some sort of prohibition against <a href="/wiki/Eighth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution" title="Eighth Amendment to the United States Constitution">cruel and unusual punishment</a>? --<a href="/wiki/User:RexxS" title="User:RexxS">RexxS</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:RexxS" title="User talk:RexxS">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_136#c-RexxS-2020-05-18T03:59:00.000Z-WhatamIdoing-2020-05-17T23:24:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">03:59, 18 May 2020 (UTC)</a></small><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-RexxS-2020-05-18T03:59:00.000Z-WhatamIdoing-2020-05-17T23:24:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-RexxS-2020-05-18T03:59:00.000Z-WhatamIdoing-2020-05-17T23:24:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><small><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-WhatamIdoing-2020-05-18T04:33:00.000Z-RexxS-2020-05-18T03:59:00.000Z"></span>I think that only restricts the government's actions. Friends and loved ones are still <a href="/wiki/Don%27t_Be_Cruel" title="Don't Be Cruel">allowed to be cruel</a> and <a href="/wiki/The_Odd_Couple_(play)" title="The Odd Couple (play)">unusual</a>. <a href="/wiki/User:WhatamIdoing" title="User:WhatamIdoing">WhatamIdoing</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:WhatamIdoing" title="User talk:WhatamIdoing">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_136#c-WhatamIdoing-2020-05-18T04:33:00.000Z-RexxS-2020-05-18T03:59:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">04:33, 18 May 2020 (UTC)</a></small><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-WhatamIdoing-2020-05-18T04:33:00.000Z-RexxS-2020-05-18T03:59:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-WhatamIdoing-2020-05-18T04:33:00.000Z-RexxS-2020-05-18T03:59:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><small><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-CV9933-2020-05-18T10:16:00.000Z-WhatamIdoing-2020-05-18T04:33:00.000Z"></span>Why are we whispering? I was just making an observation that there are some tough topics to deal with and Alex steps up to the plate to deal with them even though most of us would shy away. You need the tools to help with that. It’s a pity that in an RfA, not only do we expect candidates to draw the sword from the stone, we also expect them to do it on a pogo stick with a Ford Transit strapped to their back.<a href="/wiki/User:CV9933" title="User:CV9933">CV9933</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:CV9933" title="User talk:CV9933">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_136#c-CV9933-2020-05-18T10:16:00.000Z-WhatamIdoing-2020-05-18T04:33:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">10:16, 18 May 2020 (UTC)</a><span data-mw-comment-end="c-CV9933-2020-05-18T10:16:00.000Z-WhatamIdoing-2020-05-18T04:33:00.000Z"></span></small><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-CV9933-2020-05-18T10:16:00.000Z-WhatamIdoing-2020-05-18T04:33:00.000Z"></span></dd> <dd><small><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-WhatamIdoing-2020-05-18T18:15:00.000Z-WhatamIdoing-2020-05-18T04:33:00.000Z"></span> 1) Because it's fun. 2) I thought it was any cargo van, not specifically a Transit. <a href="/wiki/User:WhatamIdoing" title="User:WhatamIdoing">WhatamIdoing</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:WhatamIdoing" title="User talk:WhatamIdoing">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_136#c-WhatamIdoing-2020-05-18T18:15:00.000Z-WhatamIdoing-2020-05-18T04:33:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:15, 18 May 2020 (UTC)</a></small><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-WhatamIdoing-2020-05-18T18:15:00.000Z-WhatamIdoing-2020-05-18T04:33:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-WhatamIdoing-2020-05-18T18:15:00.000Z-WhatamIdoing-2020-05-18T04:33:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><small><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Roxy_the_dog-2020-05-18T19:06:00.000Z-WhatamIdoing-2020-05-18T18:15:00.000Z"></span>Ah, <a href="/wiki/FGM" class="mw-redirect" title="FGM">FGM</a> for men. -<a href="/wiki/User:Roxy_the_dog" title="User:Roxy the dog"><b>Roxy</b> <small>the effin dog </small>.</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Roxy_the_dog" title="User talk:Roxy the dog"><b>wooF</b></a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_136#c-Roxy_the_dog-2020-05-18T19:06:00.000Z-WhatamIdoing-2020-05-18T18:15:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:06, 18 May 2020 (UTC)</a><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Roxy_the_dog-2020-05-18T19:06:00.000Z-WhatamIdoing-2020-05-18T18:15:00.000Z"></span></small><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Roxy_the_dog-2020-05-18T19:06:00.000Z-WhatamIdoing-2020-05-18T18:15:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="What_are_Immunoglobulins_(Antibodies)_and_its_role_in_Covid-19_neutralization?" data-mw-thread-id="h-What_are_Immunoglobulins_(Antibodies)_and_its_role_in_Covid-19_neutralization?-2020-05-16T19:11:00.000Z"><span id="What_are_Immunoglobulins_.28Antibodies.29_and_its_role_in_Covid-19_neutralization.3F"></span><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-What_are_Immunoglobulins_(Antibodies)_and_its_role_in_Covid-19_neutralization?-2020-05-16T19:11:00.000Z"></span>What are Immunoglobulins (Antibodies) and its role in Covid-19 neutralization?<span data-mw-comment-end="h-What_are_Immunoglobulins_(Antibodies)_and_its_role_in_Covid-19_neutralization?-2020-05-16T19:11:00.000Z"></span></h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-KJRMOR-2020-05-16T19:11:00.000Z-What_are_Immunoglobulins_(Antibodies)_and_its_role_in_Covid-19_neutralization?"></span>Israel Develops An Antibody That Attacks The Corona Virus In A Monoclonal Way.The news was published on 7th may 2020. </p><p><a rel="nofollow" class="external free" href="https://www.crosstownnews.in/post/50678/good-news-israel-develops-an-antibody-that-attacks-the-virus-in-a-monoclonal-way-.html">https://www.crosstownnews.in/post/50678/good-news-israel-develops-an-antibody-that-attacks-the-virus-in-a-monoclonal-way-.html</a> </p><p>(<a href="/wiki/User:KJRMOR" title="User:KJRMOR">KJRMOR</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:KJRMOR" title="User talk:KJRMOR">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_136#c-KJRMOR-2020-05-16T19:11:00.000Z-What_are_Immunoglobulins_(Antibodies)_and_its_role_in_Covid-19_neutralization?" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:11, 16 May 2020 (UTC)</a>)<span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-KJRMOR-2020-05-16T19:11:00.000Z-What_are_Immunoglobulins_(Antibodies)_and_its_role_in_Covid-19_neutralization?"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-KJRMOR-2020-05-16T19:11:00.000Z-What_are_Immunoglobulins_(Antibodies)_and_its_role_in_Covid-19_neutralization?"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Klbrain-2020-05-19T08:04:00.000Z-KJRMOR-2020-05-16T19:11:00.000Z"></span>This describes the use of an antibody (traditionally <a href="/wiki/Antiserum" title="Antiserum">antiserum</a>) to generate (short term) <a href="/wiki/Passive_immunity" title="Passive immunity">passive immunity</a>, which might be helpful for people who already have the disease (particularly if given early). The term <i>passive vaccine</i> has been used to describe such approaches. Using <a href="/wiki/Monoclonal_antibody" title="Monoclonal antibody">monoclonal antibodies</a> is likely to be safer than using the serum from recovering patient. Such as an approach is a potentially helpful way of treating the disease,<sup id="cite_ref-2" class="reference"><a href="#cite_note-2"><span class="cite-bracket">[</span>1<span class="cite-bracket">]</span></a></sup> so it's great to hear that such approaches might be becoming a reality for COVID-19. Whether or not it can be given soon enough to actually help patients is something that remains to be seen. I don't see much on Wikipedia on passive immunization for COVID-19; has anyone else spotted it? If not, perhaps adding something about this topic would be helpful. <a href="/wiki/User:Klbrain" title="User:Klbrain">Klbrain</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Klbrain" title="User talk:Klbrain">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_136#c-Klbrain-2020-05-19T08:04:00.000Z-KJRMOR-2020-05-16T19:11:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">08:04, 19 May 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Klbrain-2020-05-19T08:04:00.000Z-KJRMOR-2020-05-16T19:11:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Klbrain-2020-05-19T08:04:00.000Z-KJRMOR-2020-05-16T19:11:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl> <span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-KJRMOR-2020-05-19T17:55:00.000Z-What_are_Immunoglobulins_(Antibodies)_and_its_role_in_Covid-19_neutralization?"></span><link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1232521257"><div class="reflist-talk"> <p class="reflist-talk-title">References</p> <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1239543626"><div class="reflist"> <div class="mw-references-wrap"><ol class="references"> <li id="cite_note-2"><span class="mw-cite-backlink"><b><a href="#cite_ref-2">^</a></b></span> <span class="reference-text"><link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1238218222"><cite id="CITEREFFischerZänkervan_GriensvenSchneider2020" class="citation journal cs1">Fischer, Johannes C.; Zänker, Kurt; van Griensven, Martijn; Schneider, Marion; Kindgen-Milles, Detlef; Knoefel, Wolfram Trudo; Lichtenberg, Artur; Tamaskovics, Balint; Djiepmo-Njanang, Freddy Joel; Budach, Wilfried; Corradini, Stefanie; Ganswindt, Ute; Häussinger, Dieter; Feldt, Torsten; Schelzig, Hubert; Bojar, Hans; Peiper, Matthias; Bölke, Edwin; Haussmann, Jan; Matuschek, Christiane (13 May 2020). <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7220618">"The role of passive immunization in the age of SARS-CoV-2: an update"</a>. <i>European Journal of Medical Research</i>. <b>25</b> (1): 16. <a href="/wiki/Doi_(identifier)" class="mw-redirect" title="Doi (identifier)">doi</a>:<span class="id-lock-free" title="Freely accessible"><a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://doi.org/10.1186%2Fs40001-020-00414-5">10.1186/s40001-020-00414-5</a></span>. <a href="/wiki/PMC_(identifier)" class="mw-redirect" title="PMC (identifier)">PMC</a> <span class="id-lock-free" title="Freely accessible"><a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7220618">7220618</a></span>. <a href="/wiki/PMID_(identifier)" class="mw-redirect" title="PMID (identifier)">PMID</a> <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32404189">32404189</a>.</cite><span title="ctx_ver=Z39.88-2004&rft_val_fmt=info%3Aofi%2Ffmt%3Akev%3Amtx%3Ajournal&rft.genre=article&rft.jtitle=European+Journal+of+Medical+Research&rft.atitle=The+role+of+passive+immunization+in+the+age+of+SARS-CoV-2%3A+an+update&rft.volume=25&rft.issue=1&rft.pages=16&rft.date=2020-05-13&rft_id=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov%2Fpmc%2Farticles%2FPMC7220618%23id-name%3DPMC&rft_id=info%3Apmid%2F32404189&rft_id=info%3Adoi%2F10.1186%2Fs40001-020-00414-5&rft.aulast=Fischer&rft.aufirst=Johannes+C.&rft.au=Z%C3%A4nker%2C+Kurt&rft.au=van+Griensven%2C+Martijn&rft.au=Schneider%2C+Marion&rft.au=Kindgen-Milles%2C+Detlef&rft.au=Knoefel%2C+Wolfram+Trudo&rft.au=Lichtenberg%2C+Artur&rft.au=Tamaskovics%2C+Balint&rft.au=Djiepmo-Njanang%2C+Freddy+Joel&rft.au=Budach%2C+Wilfried&rft.au=Corradini%2C+Stefanie&rft.au=Ganswindt%2C+Ute&rft.au=H%C3%A4ussinger%2C+Dieter&rft.au=Feldt%2C+Torsten&rft.au=Schelzig%2C+Hubert&rft.au=Bojar%2C+Hans&rft.au=Peiper%2C+Matthias&rft.au=B%C3%B6lke%2C+Edwin&rft.au=Haussmann%2C+Jan&rft.au=Matuschek%2C+Christiane&rft_id=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov%2Fpmc%2Farticles%2FPMC7220618&rfr_id=info%3Asid%2Fen.wikipedia.org%3AWikipedia+talk%3AWikiProject+Medicine%2FArchive+136" class="Z3988"></span></span> </li> </ol></div></div> </div> <dl><dd>Monoclonal antibodies are useful in treatment of infectious diseases.<sup id="cite_ref-3" class="reference"><a href="#cite_note-3"><span class="cite-bracket">[</span>1<span class="cite-bracket">]</span></a></sup>Doctors have used passive immunization, to stop or to treat infections for over a century for diseases like rabies, diphtheria, tetanus, hepatitis B.<sup id="cite_ref-4" class="reference"><a href="#cite_note-4"><span class="cite-bracket">[</span>2<span class="cite-bracket">]</span></a></sup>"Immunoglobulin’s" are mostly useful in passive immunity .DrY.Sreehari and his group of scientists invented an injection for Covid-19.The injection under clinical trail, the injection based on mechanism passive immunisation<sup id="cite_ref-5" class="reference"><a href="#cite_note-5"><span class="cite-bracket">[</span>3<span class="cite-bracket">]</span></a></sup>. IgG antibodies in this injection neutralizes Virus..<sup id="cite_ref-6" class="reference"><a href="#cite_note-6"><span class="cite-bracket">[</span>4<span class="cite-bracket">]</span></a></sup> High-Dose Intravenous IgG useful in Treatment of Severe Surgical Infections<sup id="cite_ref-7" class="reference"><a href="#cite_note-7"><span class="cite-bracket">[</span>5<span class="cite-bracket">]</span></a></sup>IVIg is safe and effective in treating several humandiseases. <sup id="cite_ref-8" class="reference"><a href="#cite_note-8"><span class="cite-bracket">[</span>6<span class="cite-bracket">]</span></a></sup></dd></dl> <p>(<a href="/wiki/User:KJRMOR" title="User:KJRMOR">KJRMOR</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:KJRMOR" title="User talk:KJRMOR">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_136#c-KJRMOR-2020-05-19T17:55:00.000Z-What_are_Immunoglobulins_(Antibodies)_and_its_role_in_Covid-19_neutralization?" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:55, 19 May 2020 (UTC)</a>)<span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-KJRMOR-2020-05-19T17:55:00.000Z-What_are_Immunoglobulins_(Antibodies)_and_its_role_in_Covid-19_neutralization?"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-KJRMOR-2020-05-19T17:55:00.000Z-What_are_Immunoglobulins_(Antibodies)_and_its_role_in_Covid-19_neutralization?"></span> </p> <span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Boghog-2020-05-19T20:49:00.000Z-What_are_Immunoglobulins_(Antibodies)_and_its_role_in_Covid-19_neutralization?"></span><link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1232521257"><div class="reflist-talk"> <p class="reflist-talk-title">References</p> <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1239543626"><div class="reflist"> <div class="mw-references-wrap"><ol class="references"> <li id="cite_note-3"><span class="mw-cite-backlink"><b><a href="#cite_ref-3">^</a></b></span> <span class="reference-text"> <a rel="nofollow" class="external free" href="https://www.who.int/immunization/research/forums_and_initiatives/1_MFriede_mAbs_infectious_diseases_gvirf16.pdf?ua=1">https://www.who.int/immunization/research/forums_and_initiatives/1_MFriede_mAbs_infectious_diseases_gvirf16.pdf?ua=1</a></span> </li> <li id="cite_note-4"><span class="mw-cite-backlink"><b><a href="#cite_ref-4">^</a></b></span> <span class="reference-text"><link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1238218222"><cite id="CITEREFSparrowFriedeSheikhTorvaldsen2017" class="citation journal cs1">Sparrow, E.; Friede, M.; Sheikh, M.; Torvaldsen, S. (2017). <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5328111">"Therapeutic antibodies for infectious diseases"</a>. <i>Bulletin of the World Health Organization</i>. <b>95</b> (3): 235–237. <a href="/wiki/Doi_(identifier)" class="mw-redirect" title="Doi (identifier)">doi</a>:<a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://doi.org/10.2471%2FBLT.16.178061">10.2471/BLT.16.178061</a>. <a href="/wiki/PMC_(identifier)" class="mw-redirect" title="PMC (identifier)">PMC</a> <span class="id-lock-free" title="Freely accessible"><a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5328111">5328111</a></span>. <a href="/wiki/PMID_(identifier)" class="mw-redirect" title="PMID (identifier)">PMID</a> <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/28250538">28250538</a>.</cite><span title="ctx_ver=Z39.88-2004&rft_val_fmt=info%3Aofi%2Ffmt%3Akev%3Amtx%3Ajournal&rft.genre=article&rft.jtitle=Bulletin+of+the+World+Health+Organization&rft.atitle=Therapeutic+antibodies+for+infectious+diseases&rft.volume=95&rft.issue=3&rft.pages=235-237&rft.date=2017&rft_id=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov%2Fpmc%2Farticles%2FPMC5328111%23id-name%3DPMC&rft_id=info%3Apmid%2F28250538&rft_id=info%3Adoi%2F10.2471%2FBLT.16.178061&rft.aulast=Sparrow&rft.aufirst=E.&rft.au=Friede%2C+M.&rft.au=Sheikh%2C+M.&rft.au=Torvaldsen%2C+S.&rft_id=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov%2Fpmc%2Farticles%2FPMC5328111&rfr_id=info%3Asid%2Fen.wikipedia.org%3AWikipedia+talk%3AWikiProject+Medicine%2FArchive+136" class="Z3988"></span></span> </li> <li id="cite_note-5"><span class="mw-cite-backlink"><b><a href="#cite_ref-5">^</a></b></span> <span class="reference-text"><a rel="nofollow" class="external free" href="https://www.nyoooz.com/news/hyderabad/1440050/hyderabadfirm-awaits-approval-for-covid-injection-trial./">https://www.nyoooz.com/news/hyderabad/1440050/hyderabadfirm-awaits-approval-for-covid-injection-trial./</a></span> </li> <li id="cite_note-6"><span class="mw-cite-backlink"><b><a href="#cite_ref-6">^</a></b></span> <span class="reference-text"><link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1238218222"><cite class="citation web cs1"><a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://www.newindianexpress.com/cities/hyderabad/2020/apr/30/hyderabad-firm-awaits-approval-for-covid-injection-trial-2137160.html">"Hyderabad firm awaits approval for Covid injection trial"</a>.</cite><span title="ctx_ver=Z39.88-2004&rft_val_fmt=info%3Aofi%2Ffmt%3Akev%3Amtx%3Abook&rft.genre=unknown&rft.btitle=Hyderabad+firm+awaits+approval+for+Covid+injection+trial&rft_id=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.newindianexpress.com%2Fcities%2Fhyderabad%2F2020%2Fapr%2F30%2Fhyderabad-firm-awaits-approval-for-covid-injection-trial-2137160.html&rfr_id=info%3Asid%2Fen.wikipedia.org%3AWikipedia+talk%3AWikiProject+Medicine%2FArchive+136" class="Z3988"></span></span> </li> <li id="cite_note-7"><span class="mw-cite-backlink"><b><a href="#cite_ref-7">^</a></b></span> <span class="reference-text"><a rel="nofollow" class="external free" href="https://www.karger.com/Article/PDF/172479/">https://www.karger.com/Article/PDF/172479/</a></span> </li> <li id="cite_note-8"><span class="mw-cite-backlink"><b><a href="#cite_ref-8">^</a></b></span> <span class="reference-text"><a rel="nofollow" class="external free" href="https://www.cell.com/trends/pharmacological-sciences/pdf/S0165-6147(04)00098-7.pdf">https://www.cell.com/trends/pharmacological-sciences/pdf/S0165-6147(04)00098-7.pdf</a></span> </li> </ol></div></div> </div> <dl><dd><a href="/wiki/Antiviral_monoclonal_antibody" class="mw-redirect" title="Antiviral monoclonal antibody">Antiviral monoclonal antibody</a> already covers this topic in a general way. As there are on-going efforts to develop a Covid-19 MAbs, they should probably mentioned in this section. <a href="/wiki/User:Boghog" title="User:Boghog">Boghog</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Boghog" title="User talk:Boghog">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_136#c-Boghog-2020-05-19T20:49:00.000Z-What_are_Immunoglobulins_(Antibodies)_and_its_role_in_Covid-19_neutralization?" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:49, 19 May 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Boghog-2020-05-19T20:49:00.000Z-What_are_Immunoglobulins_(Antibodies)_and_its_role_in_Covid-19_neutralization?"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Boghog-2020-05-19T20:49:00.000Z-What_are_Immunoglobulins_(Antibodies)_and_its_role_in_Covid-19_neutralization?"></span></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Boghog-2020-05-19T21:00:00.000Z-Boghog-2020-05-19T20:49:00.000Z"></span>There are a number of groups working on such MAbs including Vanderbilt-AstraZeneca and Regeneron Pharmaceuticals.<sup id="cite_ref-Cohen_2020_9-0" class="reference"><a href="#cite_note-Cohen_2020-9"><span class="cite-bracket">[</span>1<span class="cite-bracket">]</span></a></sup> <a href="/wiki/User:Boghog" title="User:Boghog">Boghog</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Boghog" title="User talk:Boghog">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_136#c-Boghog-2020-05-19T21:00:00.000Z-Boghog-2020-05-19T20:49:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:00, 19 May 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Boghog-2020-05-19T21:00:00.000Z-Boghog-2020-05-19T20:49:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Boghog-2020-05-19T21:00:00.000Z-Boghog-2020-05-19T20:49:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl> <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1232521257"><div class="reflist-talk"> <p class="reflist-talk-title">References</p> <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1239543626"><div class="reflist"> <div class="mw-references-wrap"><ol class="references"> <li id="cite_note-Cohen_2020-9"><span class="mw-cite-backlink"><b><a href="#cite_ref-Cohen_2020_9-0">^</a></b></span> <span class="reference-text"><link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1238218222"><cite id="CITEREFCohen2020" class="citation journal cs1">Cohen J (May 2020). "The race is on for antibodies that stop the new coronavirus". <i>Science</i>. <b>368</b> (6491). New York, N.Y.: 564–565. <a href="/wiki/Bibcode_(identifier)" class="mw-redirect" title="Bibcode (identifier)">Bibcode</a>:<a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://ui.adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/2020Sci...368..564C">2020Sci...368..564C</a>. <a href="/wiki/Doi_(identifier)" class="mw-redirect" title="Doi (identifier)">doi</a>:<a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://doi.org/10.1126%2Fscience.368.6491.564">10.1126/science.368.6491.564</a>. <a href="/wiki/PMID_(identifier)" class="mw-redirect" title="PMID (identifier)">PMID</a> <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32381697">32381697</a>.</cite><span title="ctx_ver=Z39.88-2004&rft_val_fmt=info%3Aofi%2Ffmt%3Akev%3Amtx%3Ajournal&rft.genre=article&rft.jtitle=Science&rft.atitle=The+race+is+on+for+antibodies+that+stop+the+new+coronavirus&rft.volume=368&rft.issue=6491&rft.pages=564-565&rft.date=2020-05&rft_id=info%3Apmid%2F32381697&rft_id=info%3Adoi%2F10.1126%2Fscience.368.6491.564&rft_id=info%3Abibcode%2F2020Sci...368..564C&rft.aulast=Cohen&rft.aufirst=J&rfr_id=info%3Asid%2Fen.wikipedia.org%3AWikipedia+talk%3AWikiProject+Medicine%2FArchive+136" class="Z3988"></span></span> </li> </ol></div></div> </div> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="RFC_on_pharmaceutical_drug_prices_/currently_at_ArbCom" data-mw-thread-id="h-RFC_on_pharmaceutical_drug_prices_/currently_at_ArbCom-2020-03-28T18:42:00.000Z"><span id="RFC_on_pharmaceutical_drug_prices_.2Fcurrently_at_ArbCom"></span><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-RFC_on_pharmaceutical_drug_prices_/currently_at_ArbCom-2020-03-28T18:42:00.000Z"></span><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style/Medicine-related_articles/RFC_on_pharmaceutical_drug_prices" title="Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Medicine-related articles/RFC on pharmaceutical drug prices">RFC on pharmaceutical drug prices</a> /<a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Medicine"><span style="color:green;">currently at ArbCom</span></a><span data-mw-comment-end="h-RFC_on_pharmaceutical_drug_prices_/currently_at_ArbCom-2020-03-28T18:42:00.000Z"></span></h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Colin-2020-03-28T18:42:00.000Z-RFC_on_pharmaceutical_drug_prices_/currently_at_ArbCom"></span>The RFC has concluded. Here is my interpretation. Drug price information should nearly always not be included in the lead. The method used, of creating drug prices from raw database sources fails <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Verifiability" title="Wikipedia:Verifiability">Wikipedia:Verifiability</a>. The presentation of the price for one particular formulation of the drug, often from very few suppliers, claiming this to be generally representative of all formulations of a drug, an entire world region (e.g. developing world), and all possible indications of use of the drug is false and misleading to our readers. Were those claims to be reworded to be specific, they would fail <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WEIGHT" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:WEIGHT">WP:WEIGHT</a>. This applies no matter where a price appears in the article. The inclusion of price in the body, should that even be necessary to make a point, requires extensive discussion in secondary sources, which is what <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:NOTPRICE" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:NOTPRICE">WP:NOTPRICE</a> has always insisted. Prices should not be added to info boxes. </p><p>I see there has been discussion at <span class="nowrap">{{</span><a href="/wiki/Template:Infobox_drug" title="Template:Infobox drug">Infobox drug</a><span class="nowrap">}}</span> about including GoodRX prices and/or links. There is no consensus for this, and I'm sure the wider community would be against infobox links to a commercial US-only price-comparison service. From what I understand, there are approximately three people in a population of 300 million in the US who have not heard of or use GoodRX, so there lacks any encyclopaedic value in an international project. Finding the cheapest local price for your medicines is not the job of an encyclopaedia. </p><p>I would be interested to know what plans those editors who added drug prices to our articles... Doc James ... have for their removal in compliance with the RFC conclusion. I hope they will acknowledge the community result and desist from adding prices to medical articles except in the most unusual and non-controversial cases. -- <a href="/wiki/User:Colin" title="User:Colin">Colin</a>°<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Colin" title="User talk:Colin"><sup>Talk</sup></a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_136#c-Colin-2020-03-28T18:42:00.000Z-RFC_on_pharmaceutical_drug_prices_/currently_at_ArbCom" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:42, 28 March 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Colin-2020-03-28T18:42:00.000Z-RFC_on_pharmaceutical_drug_prices_/currently_at_ArbCom"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Colin-2020-03-28T18:42:00.000Z-RFC_on_pharmaceutical_drug_prices_/currently_at_ArbCom"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-28T19:17:00.000Z-Colin-2020-03-28T18:42:00.000Z"></span>Colin, I agree this is the best place to hold a discussion, but before continuing the discussion here, it would be wise to hear from <a href="/wiki/User:Barkeep49" title="User:Barkeep49">Barkeep49</a> if the restriction that all discussion of drug pricing was confined to a single remit, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:MEDMOS" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia talk:MEDMOS">WT:MEDMOS</a>, is relaxed now that the RFC is closed. Can drug pricing RFC followup be discussed here instead, or does it have to stay back at <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:MEDMOS" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia talk:MEDMOS">WT:MEDMOS</a> ? <a href="/wiki/User:SandyGeorgia" title="User:SandyGeorgia"><b>Sandy</b><span style="color: green;">Georgia</span></a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:SandyGeorgia" title="User talk:SandyGeorgia">Talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_136#c-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-28T19:17:00.000Z-Colin-2020-03-28T18:42:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:17, 28 March 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-28T19:17:00.000Z-Colin-2020-03-28T18:42:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-28T19:17:00.000Z-Colin-2020-03-28T18:42:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Barkeep49-2020-03-28T20:36:00.000Z-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-28T19:17:00.000Z"></span>Yes now that the RfC is complete I don't think the moratorium or requirement of discussion at a single venue apply though MOSMED discussion is still probably best held there, but that's just my personal opinion. Best, <a href="/wiki/User:Barkeep49" title="User:Barkeep49">Barkeep49</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Barkeep49" title="User talk:Barkeep49">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_136#c-Barkeep49-2020-03-28T20:36:00.000Z-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-28T19:17:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:36, 28 March 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Barkeep49-2020-03-28T20:36:00.000Z-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-28T19:17:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Barkeep49-2020-03-28T20:36:00.000Z-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-28T19:17:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><a href="/wiki/User:Barkeep49" title="User:Barkeep49"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Colin-2020-03-28T20:48:00.000Z-Barkeep49-2020-03-28T20:36:00.000Z"></span>Barkeep49</a>, the <i>only</i> reason the price discussion was ever on <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:MEDMOS" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia talk:MEDMOS">WT:MEDMOS</a> was because a, now blocked, editor <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia%3AManual_of_Style%2FMedicine-related_articles&type=revision&diff=919066463&oldid=918868308">added price advocacy statements</a> to <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:MEDMOS" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:MEDMOS">WP:MEDMOS</a> and edit warred over them. The inclusion of price in an article isn't a MOS issue, and though the prices had been inserted into the lead (without <i>any</i> mention of cost in the body) in violation of <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:LEAD" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:LEAD">WP:LEAD</a>, what goes in the lead or the body isn't a medical matter. Drug prices have previously been discussed on this page, and most of the issues that led to the RFC result are general core policy matters, not a question of style (i.e how to format text). The discussion is over anyway, and what matters now, is what members of this project are going to do about the result. Hence, it's a project matter. -- <a href="/wiki/User:Colin" title="User:Colin">Colin</a>°<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Colin" title="User talk:Colin"><sup>Talk</sup></a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_136#c-Colin-2020-03-28T20:48:00.000Z-Barkeep49-2020-03-28T20:36:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:48, 28 March 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Colin-2020-03-28T20:48:00.000Z-Barkeep49-2020-03-28T20:36:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Colin-2020-03-28T20:48:00.000Z-Barkeep49-2020-03-28T20:36:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading3"><h3 id="Concerns_about_timing_of_this_discussion_due_to_the_COVID-19_pandemic" data-mw-thread-id="h-Concerns_about_timing_of_this_discussion_due_to_the_COVID-19_pandemic-RFC_on_pharmaceutical_drug_prices_/currently_at_ArbCom-2020-03-28T19:22:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Concerns_about_timing_of_this_discussion_due_to_the_COVID-19_pandemic-RFC_on_pharmaceutical_drug_prices_/currently_at_ArbCom-2020-03-28T19:22:00.000Z"></span>Concerns about timing of this discussion due to the COVID-19 pandemic<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Concerns_about_timing_of_this_discussion_due_to_the_COVID-19_pandemic-RFC_on_pharmaceutical_drug_prices_/currently_at_ArbCom-2020-03-28T19:22:00.000Z"></span></h3></div> <span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-CFCF-2020-03-28T19:22:00.000Z-Concerns_about_timing_of_this_discussion_due_to_the_COVID-19_pandemic"></span><figure typeof="mw:File/Thumb"><a href="/wiki/File:Novel_Coronavirus_SARS-CoV-2.jpg" class="mw-file-description"><img src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/76/Novel_Coronavirus_SARS-CoV-2.jpg/100px-Novel_Coronavirus_SARS-CoV-2.jpg" decoding="async" width="100" height="78" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/76/Novel_Coronavirus_SARS-CoV-2.jpg/150px-Novel_Coronavirus_SARS-CoV-2.jpg 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/76/Novel_Coronavirus_SARS-CoV-2.jpg/200px-Novel_Coronavirus_SARS-CoV-2.jpg 2x" data-file-width="3060" data-file-height="2390"/></a><figcaption>Novel Coronavirus SARS-CoV-2</figcaption></figure> <ul><li><u>I don't think this discussion will be given much attention right now</u> in the middle of the <a href="/wiki/COVID-19_pandemic" title="COVID-19 pandemic">COVID-19 pandemic</a>. It would be wise to avoid drastic actions of any kind until <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:MED" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:MED">WP:MED</a>-editors are able to return to their normal duties and interests. The pandemic is currently, and quite understandably, taking a disproportionate amount of time from editors here. <br/><a href="/wiki/User:CFCF" class="mw-redirect" title="User:CFCF"><span style="color:#014225;font-family: sans-serif;background:#D0F0C0"><b>Carl Fredrik</b></span></a><span style="font-size: .90em;"><a href="/wiki/User_talk:CFCF" title="User talk:CFCF"><sup> talk</sup></a></span> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_136#c-CFCF-2020-03-28T19:22:00.000Z-Concerns_about_timing_of_this_discussion_due_to_the_COVID-19_pandemic" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:22, 28 March 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-CFCF-2020-03-28T19:22:00.000Z-Concerns_about_timing_of_this_discussion_due_to_the_COVID-19_pandemic"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-CFCF-2020-03-28T19:22:00.000Z-Concerns_about_timing_of_this_discussion_due_to_the_COVID-19_pandemic"></span> <ul><li><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-28T19:28:00.000Z-CFCF-2020-03-28T19:22:00.000Z"></span>I'm not sure that is broadly true; some editors have more time than usual right now, because of stay-at-home, and others have given up on the COVID articles, as most of them are being edited in irretrievably hopeless ways, MEDRS out the door, and mostly politics. They are being mostly edited by non-medical editors. That is, I don't see the need to hold off this discussion, which is not likely to be very complicated considering the RFC close. But I am worried about <i>where</i> to hold the discussion. CFCF, could you please refrain from adding excess markup to your talk page posts? <a href="/wiki/User:SandyGeorgia" title="User:SandyGeorgia"><b>Sandy</b><span style="color: green;">Georgia</span></a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:SandyGeorgia" title="User talk:SandyGeorgia">Talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_136#c-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-28T19:28:00.000Z-CFCF-2020-03-28T19:22:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:28, 28 March 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-28T19:28:00.000Z-CFCF-2020-03-28T19:22:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-28T19:28:00.000Z-CFCF-2020-03-28T19:22:00.000Z"></span> <ul><li><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-RexxS-2020-03-28T21:09:00.000Z-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-28T19:28:00.000Z"></span>I think there is going to be a wide variation on the impact of the pandemic on different editors, ranging from folks like <a href="/wiki/User:Soupvector" title="User:Soupvector">Soupvector</a> (who I know has been the Covid-19 inpatient attending for some time and expects not to be relieved until sometime next week) to many students who will have time on their hands for the rest of the academic year. Jenny is managing to do some editing, despite having to home-school her three kids and work at the same time. James is getting ready for a massive upturn in his work demands for obvious reasons. I'm really lucky in that it hasn't affected me much, but I think we'll have to accept that not all of the regulars will be responding quickly to on-wiki events. --<a href="/wiki/User:RexxS" title="User:RexxS">RexxS</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:RexxS" title="User talk:RexxS">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_136#c-RexxS-2020-03-28T21:09:00.000Z-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-28T19:28:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:09, 28 March 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-RexxS-2020-03-28T21:09:00.000Z-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-28T19:28:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-RexxS-2020-03-28T21:09:00.000Z-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-28T19:28:00.000Z"></span> <ul><li><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-CFCF-2020-03-28T21:34:00.000Z-RexxS-2020-03-28T21:09:00.000Z"></span>I have to second <a href="/wiki/User:RexxS" title="User:RexxS">RexxS</a>'s observation here: most clinicians will be preparing for a massively increased work-load, with many non-clinician MDs and nurses likely also facing having to care for COVID-19 patients. So your point, <a href="/wiki/User:SandyGeorgia" title="User:SandyGeorgia">SandyGeorgia</a>, about it not being "broadly true" is all the more reason to avoid discussion right now. <u>MD/RN-editors are less likely to respond<u> and the outcome might therefore be </u>severely biased</u>, discounting their views.<br/>My initial point was more about how this discussion wouldn't be prioritized in the current editing climate which is focused towards COVID-articles, but the above is an even more pressing reason to shelve the issue for the time being, in order to avoid <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:DISRUPTION" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:DISRUPTION">disruption</a>.<br/><a href="/wiki/User:CFCF" class="mw-redirect" title="User:CFCF"><span style="color:#014225;font-family: sans-serif;background:#D0F0C0"><b>Carl Fredrik</b></span></a><span style="font-size: .90em;"><a href="/wiki/User_talk:CFCF" title="User talk:CFCF"><sup> talk</sup></a></span> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_136#c-CFCF-2020-03-28T21:34:00.000Z-RexxS-2020-03-28T21:09:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:34, 28 March 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-CFCF-2020-03-28T21:34:00.000Z-RexxS-2020-03-28T21:09:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-CFCF-2020-03-28T21:34:00.000Z-RexxS-2020-03-28T21:09:00.000Z"></span></li> <li><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-28T21:48:00.000Z-RexxS-2020-03-28T21:09:00.000Z"></span>I agree with RexxS that there will be a wide variation, and that "not all of the regulars will be responding quickly". That will be the new normal for, likely, a long time to come, so while it is good reason to allow more time for discussions to unfold, and wait longer for responses, it doesn't mean we stop discussing or stop editing. Many will recall that quite a few participants in the formulation of the RFC were absent for days to weeks at a time, even before the pandemic; we don't stop regular editing because some editors are less available, although I agree we need to allow much more time for responses, and before implementing anything. No, people carrying on with their regular editing, as they always have, do not have to stop doing so. <div class="paragraphbreak" style="margin-top:0.5em"></div> At any rate, <a href="/wiki/User:Seppi333" title="User:Seppi333">Seppi333</a> was asking on James' talk page what to do about the infobox for drug prices, and it seems that we can give them that answer (no prices in infoboxes). The database sources are not supported per WP:V. What else needs to be decided now, besides who is going to get all of the 530 database prices out of the articles? Can someone do that by bot, or do we need to manually go through all 530? <div class="paragraphbreak" style="margin-top:0.5em"></div> <b>CFCF, could you please stop adding excess markup to your posts? Most of us can read without the added emphasis.</b> (do you see how irritating it is to be Told We Must Pay Attention To Certain Text Because It Is Bolded, Underlined or All Capped?) <a href="/wiki/User:SandyGeorgia" title="User:SandyGeorgia"><b>Sandy</b><span style="color: green;">Georgia</span></a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:SandyGeorgia" title="User talk:SandyGeorgia">Talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_136#c-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-28T21:48:00.000Z-RexxS-2020-03-28T21:09:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:48, 28 March 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-28T21:48:00.000Z-RexxS-2020-03-28T21:09:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-28T21:48:00.000Z-RexxS-2020-03-28T21:09:00.000Z"></span></li></ul></li></ul></li></ul></li></ul> <dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><small><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-CFCF-2020-03-29T10:53:00.000Z-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-28T21:48:00.000Z"></span>I ask you not to comment on the format of my discussion where I highlight the most salient points, a practice which I believe to be very much in line with the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Talk_page_guidelines" title="Wikipedia:Talk page guidelines">WP:Talk page guidelines</a>. <a href="/wiki/User:CFCF" class="mw-redirect" title="User:CFCF"><span style="color:#014225;font-family: sans-serif;background:#D0F0C0"><b>Carl Fredrik</b></span></a><span style="font-size: .90em;"><a href="/wiki/User_talk:CFCF" title="User talk:CFCF"><sup> talk</sup></a></span> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_136#c-CFCF-2020-03-29T10:53:00.000Z-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-28T21:48:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">10:53, 29 March 2020 (UTC)</a><span data-mw-comment-end="c-CFCF-2020-03-29T10:53:00.000Z-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-28T21:48:00.000Z"></span></small><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-CFCF-2020-03-29T10:53:00.000Z-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-28T21:48:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-29T16:44:00.000Z-CFCF-2020-03-29T10:53:00.000Z"></span>You have been asked to stop. Similarly, please stop personalizing discussions: focus on content. Separately, please stop adding non-neutral headings to discussions. A neutral heading for this discussion would look more like "Timing of discussion"; it is not helpful to add your personal opinions to headings. <a href="/wiki/User:SandyGeorgia" title="User:SandyGeorgia"><b>Sandy</b><span style="color: green;">Georgia</span></a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:SandyGeorgia" title="User talk:SandyGeorgia">Talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_136#c-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-29T16:44:00.000Z-CFCF-2020-03-29T10:53:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:44, 29 March 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-29T16:44:00.000Z-CFCF-2020-03-29T10:53:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-29T16:44:00.000Z-CFCF-2020-03-29T10:53:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-CFCF-2020-03-29T17:05:00.000Z-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-29T16:44:00.000Z"></span>You added a non-neutral header and move my comment <a href="/wiki/User:SandyGeorgia" title="User:SandyGeorgia">SandyGeorgia</a>, implying that it was my personal "RFC interpretation", cutting it off from the necessary context. As for the other things you accuse me of, it's disingenuous, untrue and <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:UNCIVIL" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:UNCIVIL">WP:UNCIVIL</a>.<br/>We must be able to have disagreement, even disagree about personal actions and edits without calling it personalization and resorting to <i>ad hominem</i>, which is what you are doing when you question the format or language in my edits.<br/>That's just a case of the pot calling the kettle black. <a href="/wiki/User:CFCF" class="mw-redirect" title="User:CFCF"><span style="color:#014225;font-family: sans-serif;background:#D0F0C0"><b>Carl Fredrik</b></span></a><span style="font-size: .90em;"><a href="/wiki/User_talk:CFCF" title="User talk:CFCF"><sup> talk</sup></a></span> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_136#c-CFCF-2020-03-29T17:05:00.000Z-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-29T16:44:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:05, 29 March 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-CFCF-2020-03-29T17:05:00.000Z-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-29T16:44:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-CFCF-2020-03-29T17:05:00.000Z-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-29T16:44:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading3"><h3 id="Uncertainties_about_bias_//_Implementation" data-mw-thread-id="h-Uncertainties_about_bias_//_Implementation-RFC_on_pharmaceutical_drug_prices_/currently_at_ArbCom-2020-03-29T06:09:00.000Z"><span id="Uncertainties_about_bias_.2F.2F_Implementation"></span><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Uncertainties_about_bias_//_Implementation-RFC_on_pharmaceutical_drug_prices_/currently_at_ArbCom-2020-03-29T06:09:00.000Z"></span>Uncertainties about bias // Implementation<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Uncertainties_about_bias_//_Implementation-RFC_on_pharmaceutical_drug_prices_/currently_at_ArbCom-2020-03-29T06:09:00.000Z"></span></h3></div><p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-WhatamIdoing-2020-03-29T06:09:00.000Z-Uncertainties_about_bias_//_Implementation"></span> I'm not sure what sort of bias could be produced by not having people with a physician's or nursing license involved. The result of the RFC begins with the sentence <span class="example" style="font-family: Georgia, 'DejaVu Serif', serif; color: var(--color-content-added, #006400);">"Editors are generally opposed to inclusion of prices in the lede."</span> I can't really think of how, e.g., a good editor who is a nurse and an equally good editor who is not a nurse would interpret that sentence differently. AFAICT the only "discussion" to be had at this stage is whether any editors want to <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:VOLUNTEER" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:VOLUNTEER">WP:VOLUNTEER</a> to implement the RFC's conclusion in a systematic, organized manner, or not (NB: "or not" includes letting any interested individual volunteer do it all himself/herself, doing it haphazardly, doing it when a given page is being overhauled anyway, etc. It doesn't include rejecting the RFC's conclusions or trying to have the discussion about whether it's a good idea all over again). </p><div class="paragraphbreak" style="margin-top:0.5em"></div><p> As for my own opinion on Colin's actual question, the RFC's conclusions ought to be implemented in the affected articles. Separately, someday I'll take them into account when I propose some content about prices for MEDMOS (and maybe also a sentence or two for MEDRS). But I don't actually care whether we organize the process of updating these articles. <a href="/wiki/User:WhatamIdoing" title="User:WhatamIdoing">WhatamIdoing</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:WhatamIdoing" title="User talk:WhatamIdoing">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_136#c-WhatamIdoing-2020-03-29T06:09:00.000Z-Uncertainties_about_bias_//_Implementation" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">06:09, 29 March 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-WhatamIdoing-2020-03-29T06:09:00.000Z-Uncertainties_about_bias_//_Implementation"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-WhatamIdoing-2020-03-29T06:09:00.000Z-Uncertainties_about_bias_//_Implementation"></span> </p><dl><dd><a href="/wiki/User:WhatamIdoing" title="User:WhatamIdoing"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-CFCF-2020-03-29T09:30:00.000Z-WhatamIdoing-2020-03-29T06:09:00.000Z"></span>WhatamIdoing</a>, I'm not implying that you would be intentionally biased in any way. But the very nature of systemic bias ensures that we do not know how it would affect us. I am pointing out that the current time is very exceptional, and that large-scale edits or discussion on other topics should be avoided, if there is likelyhood a large portion of ordinary editors will not be able to engage in discussion. Wikipedia isn't about "snagging consensus" as soon as one sees the opportunity, and we would certainly be better off if we did not have to redo <b>any</b> discussion because of even the accusation of a one-sided consensus. <a href="/wiki/User:CFCF" class="mw-redirect" title="User:CFCF"><span style="color:#014225;font-family: sans-serif;background:#D0F0C0"><b>Carl Fredrik</b></span></a><span style="font-size: .90em;"><a href="/wiki/User_talk:CFCF" title="User talk:CFCF"><sup> talk</sup></a></span> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_136#c-CFCF-2020-03-29T09:30:00.000Z-WhatamIdoing-2020-03-29T06:09:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">09:30, 29 March 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-CFCF-2020-03-29T09:30:00.000Z-WhatamIdoing-2020-03-29T06:09:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-CFCF-2020-03-29T09:30:00.000Z-WhatamIdoing-2020-03-29T06:09:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><a href="/wiki/User:WhatamIdoing" title="User:WhatamIdoing"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Colin-2020-03-29T09:04:00.000Z-CFCF-2020-03-29T09:30:00.000Z"></span>WhatamIdoing</a>, I think we should create a list of drugs that have notable high-cost issues and we can together all examine if there are problems surrounding the presentation or sourcing of prices on those drugs that need MEDMOS/MEDRS guidance. It may be that editors are doing a reasonable job with that, or existing general guidelines already inform, or the few problematic articles can be resolved without the need for further legislation in a guideline page. As I noted at the RFC, I think we have focused too much on a dollar.cent price figure and not enough on providing encyclopaedic information to our readers about general comments on affordability, availability and relative cost vs other treatments, which are probably best made at the disease article's treatment section. So I'd caution against specifically dealing with "price" at MEDMOS. The word "price" has us reaching for the $ symbol on the keyboard, and perhaps mostly we don't need it to inform our readers.</dd> <dd>As for volunteering, someone once said "If you want a job done well, do it yourself". So I guess... -- <a href="/wiki/User:Colin" title="User:Colin">Colin</a>°<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Colin" title="User talk:Colin"><sup>Talk</sup></a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_136#c-Colin-2020-03-29T09:04:00.000Z-CFCF-2020-03-29T09:30:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">09:04, 29 March 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Colin-2020-03-29T09:04:00.000Z-CFCF-2020-03-29T09:30:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Colin-2020-03-29T09:04:00.000Z-CFCF-2020-03-29T09:30:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-CFCF-2020-03-29T09:41:00.000Z-Colin-2020-03-29T09:04:00.000Z"></span>And <a href="/wiki/User:Colin" title="User:Colin">Colin</a> — I would point out that regardless of the outcome, major editing across many articles, should be avoided if there is any suspicion that it would be controversial. This isn't about "restricting" what people can edit about, but more about advanced warning that major revisions at a time when consensus is difficult to gauge, can be very <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Disruptive" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:Disruptive">disruptive</a> if we later have to revert all of it: because it went too far; or because it was judged to misinterpret consensus at a later stage.<br/><u>We should always strive for the broadest possible consensus, which is not possible at the moment</u>, and this issue being a non emergency, it can clearly wait — whereas a lot of other things can't. <br/><u>I implore you to be cautious and avoid major changes across multiple articles right now</u>. It looks like you're going to get what you wanted, but without room for discussion right now, there is serious risk of overshooting. This is directed to you, or to anyone involved, because I don't want anyone to come back and say "no one said anything" or "I didn't know". The COVID-pandemic is an exceptional situation for <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:MED" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:MED">WP:MED</a>, and major changes to our body of other articles would benefit from being put on hold. <a href="/wiki/User:CFCF" class="mw-redirect" title="User:CFCF"><span style="color:#014225;font-family: sans-serif;background:#D0F0C0"><b>Carl Fredrik</b></span></a><span style="font-size: .90em;"><a href="/wiki/User_talk:CFCF" title="User talk:CFCF"><sup> talk</sup></a></span> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_136#c-CFCF-2020-03-29T09:41:00.000Z-Colin-2020-03-29T09:04:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">09:41, 29 March 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-CFCF-2020-03-29T09:41:00.000Z-Colin-2020-03-29T09:04:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-CFCF-2020-03-29T09:41:00.000Z-Colin-2020-03-29T09:04:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Colin-2020-03-29T10:14:00.000Z-CFCF-2020-03-29T09:41:00.000Z"></span>Carl, the RFC, in which you chose not to participate, is over and there is already a clear conclusion of community consensus weighed by two uninvolved admins. The only "discussion" now is about who wants to do the work, and a request that those who have previously edit warred over this matter acknowledge the consensus. The prices will be removed from the lead of nearly all drug articles, and prices sourced to raw database sources will also be removed from the article body. Carl, it is clear what you are doing here. Get over it, move on. I do not intend to discuss the matter further with you. -- <a href="/wiki/User:Colin" title="User:Colin">Colin</a>°<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Colin" title="User talk:Colin"><sup>Talk</sup></a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_136#c-Colin-2020-03-29T10:14:00.000Z-CFCF-2020-03-29T09:41:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">10:14, 29 March 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Colin-2020-03-29T10:14:00.000Z-CFCF-2020-03-29T09:41:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Colin-2020-03-29T10:14:00.000Z-CFCF-2020-03-29T09:41:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><a href="/wiki/User:Colin" title="User:Colin"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-CFCF-2020-03-29T10:45:00.000Z-Colin-2020-03-29T10:14:00.000Z"></span>Colin</a> — Those accusations are to me a clear rejection of <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Assume_good_faith" title="Wikipedia:Assume good faith">WP:assume good faith</a>. You rightfully point out that I chose not to participate in the RfC, but there is no reason why that would matter.<br/>I am not rejecting the RfC — but pointing out that large-scale major edits over many articles, which may be controversial — are not appropriate at the moment, and are not supported by the RfC.<br/>As anyone is able to see upon reviewing the link at the very top here: <b>The closing message of the RfC is not as straight forward as you make it.</b><br/>There is mention of "no consensus" in several places and the phrase "unlikely to find consensus", not "consensus against". There are also use of phrasing such as "in most cases", which <u>imply a need to go through articles on a case-by-case basis</u>. Each article that is assessed must of course take into account the RfC-result, but from what I understand you were suggesting a quick run-down of all articles in one fell swoop.<br/>What I'm saying is for those cases where consensus isn't 100% clear (quite a substantial number where secondary sources are included): don't go overboard. <br/>For example, how should we treat secondary sources discussing medication prices, such as those from the World Health Organization? Those things aren't simple and we need to properly discuss them, taking time in expense that we simply don't have right now.<br/>I can't debate this further now, because it is a complicated issue and one that requires quite a lot of reading and familiarizing with sources.<br/>The reason why I'm saying this is because the RfC didn't come with a clear "Do this" result, and even if that is not your intent: using the current timing may be perceived as an attempt to avoid scrutiny by a sizable proportion of those editors who <u>did not agree</u> with your take in the RfC.<br/>TL;DR: <b>The RfC resulted in a mixed consensus, not a ratification of <a href="/wiki/User:Colin" title="User:Colin">Colin</a>'s position.</b><br/><a href="/wiki/User:CFCF" class="mw-redirect" title="User:CFCF"><span style="color:#014225;font-family: sans-serif;background:#D0F0C0"><b>Carl Fredrik</b></span></a><span style="font-size: .90em;"><a href="/wiki/User_talk:CFCF" title="User talk:CFCF"><sup> talk</sup></a></span> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_136#c-CFCF-2020-03-29T10:45:00.000Z-Colin-2020-03-29T10:14:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">10:45, 29 March 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-CFCF-2020-03-29T10:45:00.000Z-Colin-2020-03-29T10:14:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-CFCF-2020-03-29T10:45:00.000Z-Colin-2020-03-29T10:14:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-29T15:08:00.000Z-CFCF-2020-03-29T10:45:00.000Z"></span>Perhaps you will consider re-reading the RFC after a few days; let's not re-litigate it post-closing. The time to enter an opinion was during the RFC, not after. <a href="/wiki/User:SandyGeorgia" title="User:SandyGeorgia"><b>Sandy</b><span style="color: green;">Georgia</span></a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:SandyGeorgia" title="User talk:SandyGeorgia">Talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_136#c-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-29T15:08:00.000Z-CFCF-2020-03-29T10:45:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:08, 29 March 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-29T15:08:00.000Z-CFCF-2020-03-29T10:45:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-29T15:08:00.000Z-CFCF-2020-03-29T10:45:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-CFCF-2020-03-29T16:58:00.000Z-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-29T15:08:00.000Z"></span>That reiterates my point — the RfC is extremely lengthy, and if one is expected to read the entire thing to interpret the closing and to implement it, it will not be done quickly.<br/>I'm not interested in entering an opinion, which should be evident in that I did not engage in the RfC — but I am interested in ensuring that the current situation with most MD/RD-editors being away doesn't mean a lot of poor choices are made with incomplete consensus — which we later have to revert. <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:THEREISNODEADLINE" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:THEREISNODEADLINE">WP:THEREISNODEADLINE</a> <a href="/wiki/User:CFCF" class="mw-redirect" title="User:CFCF"><span style="color:#014225;font-family: sans-serif;background:#D0F0C0"><b>Carl Fredrik</b></span></a><span style="font-size: .90em;"><a href="/wiki/User_talk:CFCF" title="User talk:CFCF"><sup> talk</sup></a></span> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_136#c-CFCF-2020-03-29T16:58:00.000Z-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-29T15:08:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:58, 29 March 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-CFCF-2020-03-29T16:58:00.000Z-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-29T15:08:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-CFCF-2020-03-29T16:58:00.000Z-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-29T15:08:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-29T17:01:00.000Z-CFCF-2020-03-29T16:58:00.000Z"></span>It was the job of the admins to read the "extremely lengthy" RFC and their summary and conclusions are not long at all; it is quite consise, and not hard to understand. We don't re-litigate a closed RFC, which was widely advertised. For now, could you please take on board the need to avoid battleground, and allow neutral discussion, under neutral headings, to continue about how to best implement the consensus? Thanks, <a href="/wiki/User:SandyGeorgia" title="User:SandyGeorgia"><b>Sandy</b><span style="color: green;">Georgia</span></a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:SandyGeorgia" title="User talk:SandyGeorgia">Talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_136#c-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-29T17:01:00.000Z-CFCF-2020-03-29T16:58:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:01, 29 March 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-29T17:01:00.000Z-CFCF-2020-03-29T16:58:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-29T17:01:00.000Z-CFCF-2020-03-29T16:58:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><dl><dd><b><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-CFCF-2020-03-29T17:11:00.000Z-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-29T17:01:00.000Z"></span>If it was the job of the admins, then why did you ask me to re-read it?</b></dd> <dd>All I've said was:</dd> <dd>1) That the timing is wrong for introducing major changes in the middle of a pandemic where many editors are not present</dd> <dd>and</dd> <dd>2) That the RfC certainly isn't as straight forward when 2 out of 3 points in the closing summary point to a <b>lack of consensus</b> or <b>no consensus</b>.</dd> <dd>I have no further comments.</dd> <dd><a href="/wiki/User:CFCF" class="mw-redirect" title="User:CFCF"><span style="color:#014225;font-family: sans-serif;background:#D0F0C0"><b>Carl Fredrik</b></span></a><span style="font-size: .90em;"><a href="/wiki/User_talk:CFCF" title="User talk:CFCF"><sup> talk</sup></a></span> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_136#c-CFCF-2020-03-29T17:11:00.000Z-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-29T17:01:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:11, 29 March 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-CFCF-2020-03-29T17:11:00.000Z-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-29T17:01:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-CFCF-2020-03-29T17:11:00.000Z-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-29T17:01:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-29T15:14:00.000Z-CFCF-2020-03-29T10:45:00.000Z"></span>Separately, you have <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine&diff=947946934&oldid=947945876">personalized unnecessarily in this post.</a> I am not going to requote the unnecessary wording that risks derailing the discussion from matters at hand, but I do suggest you may want to strike that portion, and comment on content, not contributor going forward. <a href="/wiki/User:SandyGeorgia" title="User:SandyGeorgia"><b>Sandy</b><span style="color: green;">Georgia</span></a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:SandyGeorgia" title="User talk:SandyGeorgia">Talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_136#c-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-29T15:14:00.000Z-CFCF-2020-03-29T10:45:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:14, 29 March 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-29T15:14:00.000Z-CFCF-2020-03-29T10:45:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-29T15:14:00.000Z-CFCF-2020-03-29T10:45:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading3"><h3 id="Implementation" data-mw-thread-id="h-Implementation-RFC_on_pharmaceutical_drug_prices_/currently_at_ArbCom-2020-03-29T15:03:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Implementation-RFC_on_pharmaceutical_drug_prices_/currently_at_ArbCom-2020-03-29T15:03:00.000Z"></span>Implementation<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Implementation-RFC_on_pharmaceutical_drug_prices_/currently_at_ArbCom-2020-03-29T15:03:00.000Z"></span></h3></div><p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-29T15:03:00.000Z-Implementation"></span> Back on topic. <style data-mw-deduplicate="TemplateStyles:r1248585704">@media screen{html.skin-theme-clientpref-night .mw-parser-output .inline-quote-talk{color:#00B785}}@media screen and (prefers-color-scheme:dark){html.skin-theme-clientpref-os .mw-parser-output .inline-quote-talk{color:#00B785}}.mw-parser-output .inline-quote-talk{font-family:Georgia,"DejaVu Serif",serif;color:#008560;quotes:none}.mw-parser-output .inline-quote-talk-italic{font-family:inherit;font-style:italic}.mw-parser-output .inline-quote-talk-marks{quotes:"\"""\""}</style><q class="inline-quote-talk">I think we should create a list of drugs that have notable high-cost issues and we can together all examine if there are problems surrounding the presentation or sourcing of prices on those drugs that need MEDMOS/MEDRS guidance.</q> Colin, unless I am misunderstanding, you are proposing here that we should <i>separately</i> do something to examine those cases where our drug articles <i>do</i> have notable high-cost issues that should be covered? During the RFC formulation, we did find that in many instances-- where articles should be discussing pricing as a V, WEIGHT, reliably sourced issue-- they were not.</p><div class="paragraphbreak" style="margin-top:0.5em"></div><p> In the rest of the cases, on implementing the RFC, there are several things I think we need to have feedback on: </p><ul><li>First, we should hear if the people who made the edits to the 530 articles have a plan to remove them themselves. That would solve the implementation problem with no further need for discussion or a lot of work from other editors.</li> <li>Second, if not, then we can discuss how to approach the <a href="/wiki/User:Colin/PriceEdits" title="User:Colin/PriceEdits">530 articles</a>. Can that list be edited down to include just the articles and the text?</li> <li>Then third, we need an approach to doing the work. Because many people are under stay-at-home orders, I don't think it will be difficult to find volunteers, but we should not initiate work until there is an agreed approach. <a href="/wiki/User:SandyGeorgia" title="User:SandyGeorgia"><b>Sandy</b><span style="color: green;">Georgia</span></a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:SandyGeorgia" title="User talk:SandyGeorgia">Talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_136#c-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-29T15:03:00.000Z-Implementation" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:03, 29 March 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-29T15:03:00.000Z-Implementation"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-29T15:03:00.000Z-Implementation"></span> <div class="paragraphbreak" style="margin-top:0.5em"></div><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-29T17:49:00.000Z-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-29T15:03:00.000Z"></span> Adding clarification: This is NOT to say that we need agreement to implement the RFC-- only that we need to hear first whether those who added the disputed text are willing to delete it themselves, or whether we will need to find another way to divide up the work, whether alphabetically, etc. <a href="/wiki/User:SandyGeorgia" title="User:SandyGeorgia"><b>Sandy</b><span style="color: green;">Georgia</span></a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:SandyGeorgia" title="User talk:SandyGeorgia">Talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_136#c-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-29T17:49:00.000Z-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-29T15:03:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:49, 29 March 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-29T17:49:00.000Z-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-29T15:03:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-29T17:49:00.000Z-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-29T15:03:00.000Z"></span></li></ul> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Colin-2020-03-29T16:35:00.000Z-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-29T15:03:00.000Z"></span>My remark concerns WhatamIdoing comment about (at a future date) to "propose some content about prices for MEDMOS (and maybe also a sentence or two for MEDRS)." That's very much a no-rush matter. As with all guidelines, we need to look at current practice, best practice, bad practice, and work out even if guidelines are needed. That's why I suggested making a list of articles that might be worth reviewing. And yes there are social, economic and health-service issues surrounding pharmaceutical treatments that our articles neglect, so editors might want to work on that as an area to improve and suggest for MEDMOS. -- <a href="/wiki/User:Colin" title="User:Colin">Colin</a>°<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Colin" title="User talk:Colin"><sup>Talk</sup></a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_136#c-Colin-2020-03-29T16:35:00.000Z-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-29T15:03:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:35, 29 March 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Colin-2020-03-29T16:35:00.000Z-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-29T15:03:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Colin-2020-03-29T16:35:00.000Z-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-29T15:03:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-29T16:46:00.000Z-Colin-2020-03-29T16:35:00.000Z"></span>OK, I see now why you added that. We may already need a re-boot to focus on how to implement the RFC, as the discussion went off-track quickly. Perhaps WhatamIdoing can use her skills to figure out how best to re-focus the discussion. <a href="/wiki/User:SandyGeorgia" title="User:SandyGeorgia"><b>Sandy</b><span style="color: green;">Georgia</span></a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:SandyGeorgia" title="User talk:SandyGeorgia">Talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_136#c-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-29T16:46:00.000Z-Colin-2020-03-29T16:35:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:46, 29 March 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-29T16:46:00.000Z-Colin-2020-03-29T16:35:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-29T16:46:00.000Z-Colin-2020-03-29T16:35:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-WhatamIdoing-2020-03-29T16:51:00.000Z-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-29T16:46:00.000Z"></span>Yes, that will have to happen later, possibly months from now. For one thing, I'll want to re-read the entire 49,000-word-long RFC first. I'm a fast reader, but that step alone will likely take a couple of weeks. <a href="/wiki/User:WhatamIdoing" title="User:WhatamIdoing">WhatamIdoing</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:WhatamIdoing" title="User talk:WhatamIdoing">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_136#c-WhatamIdoing-2020-03-29T16:51:00.000Z-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-29T16:46:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:51, 29 March 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-WhatamIdoing-2020-03-29T16:51:00.000Z-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-29T16:46:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-WhatamIdoing-2020-03-29T16:51:00.000Z-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-29T16:46:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-WhatamIdoing-2020-03-29T16:47:00.000Z-Colin-2020-03-29T16:35:00.000Z"></span>In re <span class="example" style="font-family: Georgia, 'DejaVu Serif', serif; color: var(--color-content-added, #006400);">"major editing across many articles, should be avoided if there is any suspicion that it would be controversial"</span>: Carl, I don't think that it's generally considered "controversial" to (conservatively) implement the conclusion of an unusually long, unusually well-attended RFC. Do you? I mean, we have pretty much unanimous agreement (including from the person who originally added it) that when the database gives a price for a single African country, that nobody ought to write that it's the price in the entire developing world (=80% of the world's population). I really struggle to see how anyone would think removing that is controversial or in need of yet more discussion. At least a third of the prices sourced to that website are similarly bad. I can understand that drug price content feels less urgent to you (and to many people) than the COVID-19 articles, but does it genuinely seem <i>controversial</i> to you? <a href="/wiki/User:WhatamIdoing" title="User:WhatamIdoing">WhatamIdoing</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:WhatamIdoing" title="User talk:WhatamIdoing">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_136#c-WhatamIdoing-2020-03-29T16:47:00.000Z-Colin-2020-03-29T16:35:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:47, 29 March 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-WhatamIdoing-2020-03-29T16:47:00.000Z-Colin-2020-03-29T16:35:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-WhatamIdoing-2020-03-29T16:47:00.000Z-Colin-2020-03-29T16:35:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><a href="/wiki/User:WhatamIdoing" title="User:WhatamIdoing"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-CFCF-2020-03-29T17:22:00.000Z-WhatamIdoing-2020-03-29T16:47:00.000Z"></span>WhatamIdoing</a> — No, that does not sound controversial, but it was also not what I understood the intent of the original post to be. There was nothing about conservative implementation of the least controversial points from the RfC. I'm totally fine with it, as long as we implement what is actually not disputed first, and then we can discuss the things that remain disputed, or that the RfC failed to answer later. From what I understand, the only really clear point is the first one about the general opposition towards prices in the lede.<br/>I don't have time to comment further, and truly hope that it isn't a mistake to drop the issue for now. I believe I've made my points heard about being careful and going slowly, and can't contribute more. <a href="/wiki/User:CFCF" class="mw-redirect" title="User:CFCF"><span style="color:#014225;font-family: sans-serif;background:#D0F0C0"><b>Carl Fredrik</b></span></a><span style="font-size: .90em;"><a href="/wiki/User_talk:CFCF" title="User talk:CFCF"><sup> talk</sup></a></span> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_136#c-CFCF-2020-03-29T17:22:00.000Z-WhatamIdoing-2020-03-29T16:47:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:22, 29 March 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-CFCF-2020-03-29T17:22:00.000Z-WhatamIdoing-2020-03-29T16:47:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-CFCF-2020-03-29T17:22:00.000Z-WhatamIdoing-2020-03-29T16:47:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-WhatamIdoing-2020-03-29T18:40:00.000Z-CFCF-2020-03-29T17:22:00.000Z"></span>This RFC was specifically about content sourced to <a href="/wiki/Special:LinkSearch/*.mshpriceguide.org" title="Special:LinkSearch/*.mshpriceguide.org">Special:LinkSearch/*.mshpriceguide.org</a>. While the discussion covered much wider range (there's no way to keep Wikipedians from talking about whatever they think is important), the primary conclusions are about (mis)using that single source, and especially about having misleading content from it in the introduction of an article. I think that fixing up that much could be implemented (especially in the most obvious cases) by anyone at any time. Most price content should move out of the lead (all editors to use best judgment, nobody to engage in <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:POINT" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:POINT">WP:POINTy</a> or mindless editing, etc.), and the price content from that one specific source should be reviewed with an eye towards removal (if the database had limited information for that drug) or correction/clarification (all the rest). The removals will be easier, so it might make sense to do those first, but <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:There_is_no_deadline" title="Wikipedia:There is no deadline">Wikipedia:There is no deadline</a>. It's been there for five or six years, so another couple of months doesn't really matter. For the rest (e.g., infoboxes), that's all food for thought at a future date. <a href="/wiki/User:WhatamIdoing" title="User:WhatamIdoing">WhatamIdoing</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:WhatamIdoing" title="User talk:WhatamIdoing">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_136#c-WhatamIdoing-2020-03-29T18:40:00.000Z-CFCF-2020-03-29T17:22:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:40, 29 March 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-WhatamIdoing-2020-03-29T18:40:00.000Z-CFCF-2020-03-29T17:22:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-WhatamIdoing-2020-03-29T18:40:00.000Z-CFCF-2020-03-29T17:22:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-29T18:18:00.000Z-WhatamIdoing-2020-03-29T16:47:00.000Z"></span>To answer WAID, the conclusions of the RFC are pretty clear, and I am not seeing this "controversy". I have suggested that CFCF might want to <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style/Medicine-related_articles/RFC_on_pharmaceutical_drug_prices" title="Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Medicine-related articles/RFC on pharmaceutical drug prices">revisit the conclusions of the admins</a> after a few days' reflection-- sometimes things can be seen more clearly with a few days' distance. On the other hand, I don't think anyone is advocating moving forward without a deliberative discussion and approach about how to go about approaching the work that needs to be done. That text in the leads sourced to these databases goes is indisputable from the RFC close. The closing admins also concluded that pricing text anywhere in the articles does not enjoy consensus that it meets policy (V or WEIGHT). Those wanting to add content need to demonstrate that the content meets policy, not the other way around. These are not controversial statements. The text in these articles now does not enjoy consensus is the conclusion, and <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1248585704"><q class="inline-quote-talk">where there is little discussion of pricing in secondary sources, it generally should not be included</q>. <div class="paragraphbreak" style="margin-top:0.5em"></div> That how to undertake this work on 530 articles needs to be discussed goes without saying, because it is a lot of work. The idea that we can't even talk about this because a small number of medical editors are attempting to keep up with <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:NOTNEWS" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:NOTNEWS">NOTNEWS</a> yet <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:ITN" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:ITN">InTheNews</a> edits across hundreds of COVID articles is a sample of confirmation bias. I am seeing editors engaging on non-COVID medical articles to an extent that I hadn't seen in years, so it is apparent to me that there are plenty of editors with more free time now. We can move forward to discussing how to implement the RFC conclusions; IMO, it would be preferable to first hear whether the editors who added the text will help get it removed, and I accept that it may take additional time, due to the pandemic, to get an answer to that query. Our time will also be better spent if we deal with the housekeeping issues here, lest we see another five-month detour through ANI. <a href="/wiki/User:SandyGeorgia" title="User:SandyGeorgia"><b>Sandy</b><span style="color: green;">Georgia</span></a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:SandyGeorgia" title="User talk:SandyGeorgia">Talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_136#c-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-29T18:18:00.000Z-WhatamIdoing-2020-03-29T16:47:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:18, 29 March 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-29T18:18:00.000Z-WhatamIdoing-2020-03-29T16:47:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-29T18:18:00.000Z-WhatamIdoing-2020-03-29T16:47:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-WhatamIdoing-2020-03-29T18:55:00.000Z-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-29T18:18:00.000Z"></span>I don't think we need to have big discussions. I think we just need to move slowly. Nobody should try to edit hundreds of drug articles today, or even this week, because it's not nice to flood people's watchlists. We should fix the "obvious" problems first. It may take a long time to get decent price content into articles, but that's okay; we can make some of it better soon. For right now, just getting mediocre-to-bad content from the one source out of the introduction is a simple, feasible edit that dozens of us are capable of doing. Probably the fastest way to do that is to go to <a href="/wiki/User:Colin/MSHData#Raw_data" title="User:Colin/MSHData">User:Colin/MSHData#Raw data</a>, sort by the number of suppliers, and start with the ones that have zero suppliers or just one supplier. All of those require (mostly) removal or (sometimes) correction. If anyone is interested in doing this, but isn't sure what to do, then pick an article from the list, make your best-guess edit, and bring the diff here with your questions (or ping me for an informal second opinion). We could probably even ping the closing admins with a few diffs to make sure that the changes we make are what they expected. We do more complicated editing every day of the week. We shouldn't overcomplicate this. <a href="/wiki/User:WhatamIdoing" title="User:WhatamIdoing">WhatamIdoing</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:WhatamIdoing" title="User talk:WhatamIdoing">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_136#c-WhatamIdoing-2020-03-29T18:55:00.000Z-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-29T18:18:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:55, 29 March 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-WhatamIdoing-2020-03-29T18:55:00.000Z-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-29T18:18:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-WhatamIdoing-2020-03-29T18:55:00.000Z-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-29T18:18:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-CFCF-2020-03-29T19:50:00.000Z-WhatamIdoing-2020-03-29T18:55:00.000Z"></span>I support this take by <a href="/wiki/User:WhatamIdoing" title="User:WhatamIdoing">WhatamIdoing</a>. <a href="/wiki/User:CFCF" class="mw-redirect" title="User:CFCF"><span style="color:#014225;font-family: sans-serif;background:#D0F0C0"><b>Carl Fredrik</b></span></a><span style="font-size: .90em;"><a href="/wiki/User_talk:CFCF" title="User talk:CFCF"><sup> talk</sup></a></span> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_136#c-CFCF-2020-03-29T19:50:00.000Z-WhatamIdoing-2020-03-29T18:55:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:50, 29 March 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-CFCF-2020-03-29T19:50:00.000Z-WhatamIdoing-2020-03-29T18:55:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-CFCF-2020-03-29T19:50:00.000Z-WhatamIdoing-2020-03-29T18:55:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-29T20:49:00.000Z-WhatamIdoing-2020-03-29T18:55:00.000Z"></span>WAID, I don't suspect there is a current risk that anyone will run out and edit hundreds of articles any time soon. We do need to get the work done, but I think/hope we all understand that we need time to hear from all involved considering the current world environment. I do suspect we all appreciate the need for a systematic, deliberative, and coordinated effort, when we are talking about 530 articles. I don't want to see us getting in each other's way, duplicating work, duplicating checking of work, confusing editors who didn't know about the RFC, or in a situation where multiple editors are reviewing the same articles. I also submit, as an optimist perhaps, that the last time we found ourselves (WPMED) in a similar position, the editor who had added all of the disputed content voluntarily removed all of it themselves, so there remains a chance we don't have to undertake this work. <div class="paragraphbreak" style="margin-top:0.5em"></div> If we do, we can approach this systematically to save time. That is:<div class="paragraphbreak" style="margin-top:0.5em"></div>I suggest a sorting of the list of the 530 articles (by source used, then by article name), placed somewhere in project space, and set up in a format that each editor can indicate what they have addressed, and include a diff. (Similar to how Copyvio investigations proceed.) I also suggest we come up with a shared, common edit summary for this work-- one that links back to the RFC-- for two reasons: 1) recall that there were several dozen editors who had tried to remove this price data in the past but who were apparently unaware of the RFC (and were intentionally not pinged to the RFC per canvassing), who may be watching articles and unaware of why the changes are being made, and; this allows the rest of us to easily see the common edits and know what has already been done, avoiding duplication of work. Again, a reminder that we have seen work on similar problems where edit summaries were not used, and that will make it harder on everyone.<div class="paragraphbreak" style="margin-top:0.5em"></div> Starting with the MSH-sourced articles first may make sense, but the RFC also concluded that there is no consensus for drug prices to be in articles at all, so we should proceed carefully enough that we have a broader system in place to deal with all 530 database-sourced prices when the time comes. Again, all of this work could be negated, though, if the editor who added them voluntarily removed them. <a href="/wiki/User:SandyGeorgia" title="User:SandyGeorgia"><b>Sandy</b><span style="color: green;">Georgia</span></a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:SandyGeorgia" title="User talk:SandyGeorgia">Talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_136#c-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-29T20:49:00.000Z-WhatamIdoing-2020-03-29T18:55:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:49, 29 March 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-29T20:49:00.000Z-WhatamIdoing-2020-03-29T18:55:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-29T20:49:00.000Z-WhatamIdoing-2020-03-29T18:55:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading3"><h3 id="Housekeeping" data-mw-thread-id="h-Housekeeping-RFC_on_pharmaceutical_drug_prices_/currently_at_ArbCom-2020-03-29T17:59:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Housekeeping-RFC_on_pharmaceutical_drug_prices_/currently_at_ArbCom-2020-03-29T17:59:00.000Z"></span>Housekeeping<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Housekeeping-RFC_on_pharmaceutical_drug_prices_/currently_at_ArbCom-2020-03-29T17:59:00.000Z"></span></h3></div><p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-29T17:59:00.000Z-Housekeeping"></span> It appears that we as a Project are going to have to take on some housekeeping issues here, unless we want another trip to ANI. Less than a week after the RFC closed, we are seeing a return to earlier behaviors.</p><div class="paragraphbreak" style="margin-top:0.5em"></div><p> Our task is to decide how to implement the close of the RFC; not to re-litigate conclusions reached by the neutral admins who closed it. I am concerned that there is already opposition to even <i>discussion</i> of how to implement the RFC, and particularly at a time when many editors are stuck at home and have enough free time on their hands to go about getting the work done. I am particularly concerned that we are already seeing personalization of issues, unstruck battleground accusations that one editor is "going to get what you wanted" (what the RFC concluded), and non-neutral framing and re-editing of section headings that impede productive discussion of how to implement the RFC. The entire discussion has now been reformatted with non-neutral section headings impeding discussion. I do not intend to try to continue to address the reformatting of the sections to one editor's interpretation, but think that we might consider, as a group, ways to get it to stop so we don't end up at ANI again. We need some ideas here on how to reign in these issues so that discussion can proceed. <a href="/wiki/User:SandyGeorgia" title="User:SandyGeorgia"><b>Sandy</b><span style="color: green;">Georgia</span></a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:SandyGeorgia" title="User talk:SandyGeorgia">Talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_136#c-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-29T17:59:00.000Z-Housekeeping" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:59, 29 March 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-29T17:59:00.000Z-Housekeeping"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-29T17:59:00.000Z-Housekeeping"></span> </p><dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-29T18:33:00.000Z-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-29T17:59:00.000Z"></span>My suggestions: <ol><li>The first section heading here, "Wrong time to be having this debate (COVID-19 pandemic)" is quite a leading heading, discouraging discussion. I suggest it be changed to a neutral "Timing of discussion".</li> <li>Ditto for second, and I suggest changing, "Uncertainties about bias // Implementation" to a more neutral and general "Implementation concerns".</li> <li>My final suggestion is that we, as a group, make a determination here to get this re-formatting of sections and other people's posts to stop. We should be sufficiently grown up that we shouldn't need to go to outside admins to hold a productive discussion without excess markup, reformatting, and posts advocating that we cannot even hold a discussion.</li></ol></dd> <dd><a href="/wiki/User:SandyGeorgia" title="User:SandyGeorgia"><b>Sandy</b><span style="color: green;">Georgia</span></a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:SandyGeorgia" title="User talk:SandyGeorgia">Talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_136#c-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-29T18:33:00.000Z-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-29T17:59:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:33, 29 March 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-29T18:33:00.000Z-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-29T17:59:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-29T18:33:00.000Z-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-29T17:59:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-CFCF-2020-03-29T21:45:00.000Z-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-29T18:33:00.000Z"></span>The one who has been doing most of the reformatting of others' discussions and sections here has been you, SandyGeorgia, having intentionally ignored responses and indenting — placing lengthy comments above or at the same level as those of others, repeatedly squirreling away what you find "irrelevant" or "personalized" under various trivializing headers.</dd> <dd>Adding unrelated and loaded euphemisms to headers is also not useful, as you did in: <code>=== RfC interpretation ===</code>, implying that the section was independent from the rest of the discussion, and represented a minority or fringe view: <span class="plainlinks"><a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=&diff=prev&oldid=947985213">[13]</a></span> — after which you followed with a comment that simultaneously moved the section away and ignored the concerns: <span class="plainlinks"><a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=&diff=prev&oldid=947986433">[14]</a></span>, starting with: "<link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1248585704"><q class="inline-quote-talk"><b>Back on topic</b></q>".<br/>Or here, where you again implied that others were "off topic" in the edit summary upon concerns over whether it was a good idea to be debating when so many editors were absent: <span class="plainlinks"><a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=&diff=prev&oldid=947985060">[15]</a></span>; adding a pointy break: <code>=== Implementing RFC conclusions ===</code></dd> <dd>Growing up, I was taught the phrase: "people who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones", which seems apt here.<br/><a href="/wiki/User:CFCF" class="mw-redirect" title="User:CFCF"><span style="color:#014225;font-family: sans-serif;background:#D0F0C0"><b>Carl Fredrik</b></span></a><span style="font-size: .90em;"><a href="/wiki/User_talk:CFCF" title="User talk:CFCF"><sup> talk</sup></a></span> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_136#c-CFCF-2020-03-29T21:45:00.000Z-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-29T18:33:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:45, 29 March 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-CFCF-2020-03-29T21:45:00.000Z-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-29T18:33:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-CFCF-2020-03-29T21:45:00.000Z-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-29T18:33:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-29T21:58:00.000Z-CFCF-2020-03-29T21:45:00.000Z"></span>You are entitled to your opinions and partial diffs. More significantly, thank you for partially addressing some of the headings you introduced (although removing mine, which you should refrain from doing again). Now, there is work to be done. Will you join in refraining from personalizing discussions, taking care with section headings, and allowing discussion to proceed? That would help all of our efforts. Once again, you may have the last word. <a href="/wiki/User:SandyGeorgia" title="User:SandyGeorgia"><b>Sandy</b><span style="color: green;">Georgia</span></a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:SandyGeorgia" title="User talk:SandyGeorgia">Talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_136#c-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-29T21:58:00.000Z-CFCF-2020-03-29T21:45:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:58, 29 March 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-29T21:58:00.000Z-CFCF-2020-03-29T21:45:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-29T21:58:00.000Z-CFCF-2020-03-29T21:45:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading3"><h3 id="Conclusions" data-mw-thread-id="h-Conclusions-RFC_on_pharmaceutical_drug_prices_/currently_at_ArbCom-2020-03-29T23:43:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Conclusions-RFC_on_pharmaceutical_drug_prices_/currently_at_ArbCom-2020-03-29T23:43:00.000Z"></span>Conclusions<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Conclusions-RFC_on_pharmaceutical_drug_prices_/currently_at_ArbCom-2020-03-29T23:43:00.000Z"></span></h3></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Doc_James-2020-03-29T23:43:00.000Z-Conclusions"></span>Per "There is no consensus on whether drug prices should be included in articles at all". Sure I guess they can go in the body of the article. I will get around to starting a clearer RfC eventually after <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:COVID19" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:COVID19">WP:COVID19</a>. <a href="/wiki/User:Doc_James" title="User:Doc James"><span style="color:#0000f1"><b>Doc James</b></span></a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Doc_James" title="User talk:Doc James">talk</a> · <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Doc_James" title="Special:Contributions/Doc James">contribs</a> · <a href="/wiki/Special:EmailUser/Doc_James" title="Special:EmailUser/Doc James">email</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_136#c-Doc_James-2020-03-29T23:43:00.000Z-Conclusions" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:43, 29 March 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Doc_James-2020-03-29T23:43:00.000Z-Conclusions"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Doc_James-2020-03-29T23:43:00.000Z-Conclusions"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-29T23:50:00.000Z-Doc_James-2020-03-29T23:43:00.000Z"></span>James, perhaps I am misreading, so could you expand/clarify? Your posts sounds as if you are saying you reject the conclusions of a widely advertised, community-wide RFC, so plan to re-do another RFC, formulated by you, which I find hard to understand. <a href="/wiki/User:SandyGeorgia" title="User:SandyGeorgia"><b>Sandy</b><span style="color: green;">Georgia</span></a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:SandyGeorgia" title="User talk:SandyGeorgia">Talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_136#c-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-29T23:50:00.000Z-Doc_James-2020-03-29T23:43:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:50, 29 March 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-29T23:50:00.000Z-Doc_James-2020-03-29T23:43:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-29T23:50:00.000Z-Doc_James-2020-03-29T23:43:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Doc_James-2020-03-30T00:28:00.000Z-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-29T23:50:00.000Z"></span>Per "There is no consensus on whether drug prices should be included in articles at all" means that consensus was not achieved on some stuff. Yes that is correct. Personally I think that this RfC was a mess and hard to make heads or tails of. <a href="/wiki/User:Doc_James" title="User:Doc James"><span style="color:#0000f1"><b>Doc James</b></span></a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Doc_James" title="User talk:Doc James">talk</a> · <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Doc_James" title="Special:Contributions/Doc James">contribs</a> · <a href="/wiki/Special:EmailUser/Doc_James" title="Special:EmailUser/Doc James">email</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_136#c-Doc_James-2020-03-30T00:28:00.000Z-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-29T23:50:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:28, 30 March 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Doc_James-2020-03-30T00:28:00.000Z-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-29T23:50:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Doc_James-2020-03-30T00:28:00.000Z-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-29T23:50:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-30T00:43:00.000Z-Doc_James-2020-03-30T00:28:00.000Z"></span>That is a concerning response, James; it appears that I was reading your response correctly the first time? It seems that you are saying you don't like the conclusion, so you plan to re-do the RFC yourself. I hate to drag them back in here, but perhaps the closing admins will have an opinion on that approach. <span class="template-ping">@<a href="/wiki/User:Barkeep49" title="User:Barkeep49">Barkeep49</a>, <a href="/wiki/User:Wugapodes" title="User:Wugapodes">Wugapodes</a>, and <a href="/wiki/User:Ymblanter" title="User:Ymblanter">Ymblanter</a>:</span>. <a href="/wiki/User:SandyGeorgia" title="User:SandyGeorgia"><b>Sandy</b><span style="color: green;">Georgia</span></a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:SandyGeorgia" title="User talk:SandyGeorgia">Talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_136#c-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-30T00:43:00.000Z-Doc_James-2020-03-30T00:28:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:43, 30 March 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-30T00:43:00.000Z-Doc_James-2020-03-30T00:28:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-30T00:43:00.000Z-Doc_James-2020-03-30T00:28:00.000Z"></span></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-30T00:46:00.000Z-Doc_James-2020-03-30T00:28:00.000Z"></span>Considering we have an RFC saying there is no consensus that the content added meets policy, are you accounting for the fact that the burden is on the editor wanting to add content to demonstrate that it meets policy? With a five-month-long process, wide open to the community, it is hard for me to understand how you can say that you need to re-do it yourself. <a href="/wiki/User:SandyGeorgia" title="User:SandyGeorgia"><b>Sandy</b><span style="color: green;">Georgia</span></a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:SandyGeorgia" title="User talk:SandyGeorgia">Talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_136#c-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-30T00:46:00.000Z-Doc_James-2020-03-30T00:28:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:46, 30 March 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-30T00:46:00.000Z-Doc_James-2020-03-30T00:28:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-30T00:46:00.000Z-Doc_James-2020-03-30T00:28:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Doc_James-2020-03-30T00:52:00.000Z-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-30T00:46:00.000Z"></span>Sure feel free. We need to work to clarify the situation around the body of the text. <a href="/wiki/User:Doc_James" title="User:Doc James"><span style="color:#0000f1"><b>Doc James</b></span></a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Doc_James" title="User talk:Doc James">talk</a> · <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Doc_James" title="Special:Contributions/Doc James">contribs</a> · <a href="/wiki/Special:EmailUser/Doc_James" title="Special:EmailUser/Doc James">email</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_136#c-Doc_James-2020-03-30T00:52:00.000Z-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-30T00:46:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:52, 30 March 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Doc_James-2020-03-30T00:52:00.000Z-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-30T00:46:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Doc_James-2020-03-30T00:52:00.000Z-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-30T00:46:00.000Z"></span></dd> <dd><a href="/wiki/User:SandyGeorgia" title="User:SandyGeorgia"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Barkeep49-2020-03-30T00:52:00.000Z-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-30T00:46:00.000Z"></span>SandyGeorgia</a>, just for the record I am not a closing admin on this. Wugapodes and Ymblanter did all that work. I felt it needed fresh eyes given the work I'd done to facilitate its launch. That said as long as an editor is including pricing information referenced secondary sourcing in the body of the article that seems appropriate given the conclusion of the RfC. Best, <a href="/wiki/User:Barkeep49" title="User:Barkeep49">Barkeep49</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Barkeep49" title="User talk:Barkeep49">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_136#c-Barkeep49-2020-03-30T00:52:00.000Z-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-30T00:46:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:52, 30 March 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Barkeep49-2020-03-30T00:52:00.000Z-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-30T00:46:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Barkeep49-2020-03-30T00:52:00.000Z-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-30T00:46:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-30T00:54:00.000Z-Barkeep49-2020-03-30T00:52:00.000Z"></span>Yes, I realize that ... lumping you all together under one term was a shortcut. But <a href="/wiki/User:Barkeep49" title="User:Barkeep49">Barkeep49</a>, considering you did facilitate the launch, and close the ANI, how should we interpret James' intent to re-do the RFC himself? <a href="/wiki/User:SandyGeorgia" title="User:SandyGeorgia"><b>Sandy</b><span style="color: green;">Georgia</span></a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:SandyGeorgia" title="User talk:SandyGeorgia">Talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_136#c-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-30T00:54:00.000Z-Barkeep49-2020-03-30T00:52:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:54, 30 March 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-30T00:54:00.000Z-Barkeep49-2020-03-30T00:52:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-30T00:54:00.000Z-Barkeep49-2020-03-30T00:52:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Barkeep49-2020-03-30T01:00:00.000Z-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-30T00:54:00.000Z"></span>I think it's possible an RfC that seeks consensus on an area that had no consensus could be productive. Or could be disruptive, all depends on a lot of factors. Given my faith in James I would expect it to be productive rather than disruptive. Further, James has indicated he's not going to launch soon (and given COVID could be intense for a few more months) so it's not something we need to has out now. Best, <a href="/wiki/User:Barkeep49" title="User:Barkeep49">Barkeep49</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Barkeep49" title="User talk:Barkeep49">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_136#c-Barkeep49-2020-03-30T01:00:00.000Z-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-30T00:54:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:00, 30 March 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Barkeep49-2020-03-30T01:00:00.000Z-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-30T00:54:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Barkeep49-2020-03-30T01:00:00.000Z-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-30T00:54:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Doc_James-2020-03-30T01:03:00.000Z-Barkeep49-2020-03-30T01:00:00.000Z"></span>Thanks <a href="/wiki/User:Barkeep49" title="User:Barkeep49">User:Barkeep49</a>... There are also the concerns around an editor being pushed out of Wikipedia during the drafting of the prior one and multiple people raising concerns about the formating. But will leave that to later. <a href="/wiki/User:Doc_James" title="User:Doc James"><span style="color:#0000f1"><b>Doc James</b></span></a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Doc_James" title="User talk:Doc James">talk</a> · <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Doc_James" title="Special:Contributions/Doc James">contribs</a> · <a href="/wiki/Special:EmailUser/Doc_James" title="Special:EmailUser/Doc James">email</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_136#c-Doc_James-2020-03-30T01:03:00.000Z-Barkeep49-2020-03-30T01:00:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:03, 30 March 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Doc_James-2020-03-30T01:03:00.000Z-Barkeep49-2020-03-30T01:00:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Doc_James-2020-03-30T01:03:00.000Z-Barkeep49-2020-03-30T01:00:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-30T02:06:00.000Z-Doc_James-2020-03-30T01:03:00.000Z"></span>"An editor being pushed out" is a dubious way to phrase that. <a href="/wiki/User:SandyGeorgia" title="User:SandyGeorgia"><b>Sandy</b><span style="color: green;">Georgia</span></a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:SandyGeorgia" title="User talk:SandyGeorgia">Talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_136#c-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-30T02:06:00.000Z-Doc_James-2020-03-30T01:03:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:06, 30 March 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-30T02:06:00.000Z-Doc_James-2020-03-30T01:03:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-30T02:06:00.000Z-Doc_James-2020-03-30T01:03:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Hipal-2020-03-30T01:41:00.000Z-Conclusions"></span>I read it as drug prices are not given any special priority for inclusion in articles, nor are drug prices exempt from the application of NOT and POV. --<a href="/wiki/User:Hipal" title="User:Hipal">Hipal/Ronz</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Hipal" title="User talk:Hipal">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_136#c-Hipal-2020-03-30T01:41:00.000Z-Conclusions" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:41, 30 March 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Hipal-2020-03-30T01:41:00.000Z-Conclusions"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Hipal-2020-03-30T01:41:00.000Z-Conclusions"></span> </p> <ul><li><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Seraphimblade-2020-03-30T01:48:00.000Z-Hipal-2020-03-30T01:41:00.000Z"></span>Basically, the "no consensus" close means we follow existing policy, that being <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:NOPRICES" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:NOPRICES">WP:NOPRICES</a>. Prices may be included in articles (body or otherwise) in <i>exceptional</i> circumstances where reliable and independent sources clearly consider them of significance and extensively discuss them, but not as a matter of course. And we very much should not be extrapolating from databases. <a href="/wiki/User:Seraphimblade" title="User:Seraphimblade">Seraphimblade</a> <small><sup><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Seraphimblade" title="User talk:Seraphimblade">Talk to me</a></sup></small> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_136#c-Seraphimblade-2020-03-30T01:48:00.000Z-Hipal-2020-03-30T01:41:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:48, 30 March 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Seraphimblade-2020-03-30T01:48:00.000Z-Hipal-2020-03-30T01:41:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Seraphimblade-2020-03-30T01:48:00.000Z-Hipal-2020-03-30T01:41:00.000Z"></span></li></ul> <dl><dd><dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Doc_James-2020-03-30T02:05:00.000Z-Seraphimblade-2020-03-30T01:48:00.000Z"></span>Or per the link "An article should not include product pricing or availability information unless there is an independent source and a justified reason for the mention." <a href="/wiki/User:Doc_James" title="User:Doc James"><span style="color:#0000f1"><b>Doc James</b></span></a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Doc_James" title="User talk:Doc James">talk</a> · <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Doc_James" title="Special:Contributions/Doc James">contribs</a> · <a href="/wiki/Special:EmailUser/Doc_James" title="Special:EmailUser/Doc James">email</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_136#c-Doc_James-2020-03-30T02:05:00.000Z-Seraphimblade-2020-03-30T01:48:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:05, 30 March 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Doc_James-2020-03-30T02:05:00.000Z-Seraphimblade-2020-03-30T01:48:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Doc_James-2020-03-30T02:05:00.000Z-Seraphimblade-2020-03-30T01:48:00.000Z"></span></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-30T02:06:00.000Z-Seraphimblade-2020-03-30T01:48:00.000Z"></span>Per both of you (Ronz, Seraph), this much is clear. To most of us :) <a href="/wiki/User:SandyGeorgia" title="User:SandyGeorgia"><b>Sandy</b><span style="color: green;">Georgia</span></a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:SandyGeorgia" title="User talk:SandyGeorgia">Talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_136#c-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-30T02:06:00.000Z-Seraphimblade-2020-03-30T01:48:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:06, 30 March 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-30T02:06:00.000Z-Seraphimblade-2020-03-30T01:48:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-30T02:06:00.000Z-Seraphimblade-2020-03-30T01:48:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Hipal-2020-03-30T02:24:00.000Z-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-30T02:06:00.000Z"></span><link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1248585704"><q class="inline-quote-talk">unless there is an independent source and a justified reason for the mention.</q> <b>No.</b> We tried that and it failed. NOT and POV apply. Please avoid anything that comes across as <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:IDHT" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:IDHT">WP:IDHT</a> at this point.</dd> <dd>I realize that this is a quote from NOT, but in the context of this RfC, it's not enough. Editors all along were saying they had "justification". It's clear now that they did not. Let's be more clear and careful in how we proceed. --<a href="/wiki/User:Hipal" title="User:Hipal">Hipal/Ronz</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Hipal" title="User talk:Hipal">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_136#c-Hipal-2020-03-30T02:24:00.000Z-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-30T02:06:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:24, 30 March 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Hipal-2020-03-30T02:24:00.000Z-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-30T02:06:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Hipal-2020-03-30T02:24:00.000Z-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-30T02:06:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-30T02:30:00.000Z-Hipal-2020-03-30T02:24:00.000Z"></span>Perhaps the three of you could help in the earlier sections of this discussion, that revolve around how to best proceed next. <a href="/wiki/User:SandyGeorgia" title="User:SandyGeorgia"><b>Sandy</b><span style="color: green;">Georgia</span></a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:SandyGeorgia" title="User talk:SandyGeorgia">Talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_136#c-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-30T02:30:00.000Z-Hipal-2020-03-30T02:24:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:30, 30 March 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-30T02:30:00.000Z-Hipal-2020-03-30T02:24:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-30T02:30:00.000Z-Hipal-2020-03-30T02:24:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Hipal-2020-03-30T03:32:00.000Z-Conclusions"></span>I'd hope there would be no problems with removing prices from article ledes, with the few exceptions where prices themselves were clearly part of the notability of the drug in question (eg <a href="/wiki/Pyrimethamine" title="Pyrimethamine">Pyrimethamine</a>). --<a href="/wiki/User:Hipal" title="User:Hipal">Hipal/Ronz</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Hipal" title="User talk:Hipal">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_136#c-Hipal-2020-03-30T03:32:00.000Z-Conclusions" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">03:32, 30 March 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Hipal-2020-03-30T03:32:00.000Z-Conclusions"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Hipal-2020-03-30T03:32:00.000Z-Conclusions"></span> </p> <ul><li><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Ymblanter-2020-03-30T05:25:00.000Z-Hipal-2020-03-30T03:32:00.000Z"></span>Our conclusion is that whether prices can go to the body of a specific articles is determined on case per case basis, and there is no general consensus on this. In practice, probably, as usual, if some users agree and some disagree, they should go to the talk page and sort it out, taking into account whether pricing sources are primary or secondary, their quality, the formulation of the statement etc.--<a href="/wiki/User:Ymblanter" title="User:Ymblanter">Ymblanter</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Ymblanter" title="User talk:Ymblanter">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_136#c-Ymblanter-2020-03-30T05:25:00.000Z-Hipal-2020-03-30T03:32:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">05:25, 30 March 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Ymblanter-2020-03-30T05:25:00.000Z-Hipal-2020-03-30T03:32:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Ymblanter-2020-03-30T05:25:00.000Z-Hipal-2020-03-30T03:32:00.000Z"></span></li></ul> <p><a href="/wiki/User:Ymblanter" title="User:Ymblanter"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Colin-2020-04-01T07:34:00.000Z-Conclusions"></span>Ymblanter</a> and <a href="/wiki/User:Wugapodes" title="User:Wugapodes">Wugapodes</a>, the "no consensus" part of your closing remarks is being <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case&diff=948413268&oldid=948401523">seized upon</a> as suggesting the RFC failed to reach a conclusion on the central points. My interpretation of your words is that there is indeed no consensus that prices should <b>routinely</b> be inserted in articles or <b>never</b> inserted in articles but that, as always, per <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:NOTPRICES" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:NOTPRICES">WP:NOTPRICES</a>, this is determined per drug article based on "secondary sources discuss[ing] pricing extensively" [<u>for that drug</u>] or as policy states it "mainstream media sources (not just product reviews) provide commentary on these details instead of just passing mention". Can I ask you to urgently clarify this. In my view the RFC achieved several things: </p> <ul><li>Prices should nearly always be removed from the lead.</li> <li>Prices should not be sourced solely to primary databases of raw product prices, which when interpreted leads to <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:OR" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:OR">WP:OR</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:V" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:V">WP:V</a> and even if carefully written have <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WEIGHT" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:WEIGHT">WP:WEIGHT</a> issues.</li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:NOTPRICES" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:NOTPRICES">WP:NOTPRICES</a> is reaffirmed as fully applying to drug prices.</li> <li>The suggestions by some that prices might appear in info boxes, sourced to wikidata, is likely to be a non-starter and be rejected.</li></ul> <p>In particular, it is not sufficient to find secondary sources mentioning the the cost of a drug (whether in dollars or abstractly) and then include a different price sourced to a primary database of product prices. The prices themselves must be sourced to secondary sources who make extended commentary on that price. -- <a href="/wiki/User:Colin" title="User:Colin">Colin</a>°<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Colin" title="User talk:Colin"><sup>Talk</sup></a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_136#c-Colin-2020-04-01T07:34:00.000Z-Conclusions" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">07:34, 1 April 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Colin-2020-04-01T07:34:00.000Z-Conclusions"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Colin-2020-04-01T07:34:00.000Z-Conclusions"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Ymblanter-2020-04-01T07:46:00.000Z-Colin-2020-04-01T07:34:00.000Z"></span>Yes, this is what we concluded (with an obvious comment that we only summarized the discussion at this RfC - for example, if there are some magic databases which can be taken over without interpretation, this might be a different story, but it was not a subject of this RfC).--<a href="/wiki/User:Ymblanter" title="User:Ymblanter">Ymblanter</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Ymblanter" title="User talk:Ymblanter">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_136#c-Ymblanter-2020-04-01T07:46:00.000Z-Colin-2020-04-01T07:34:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">07:46, 1 April 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Ymblanter-2020-04-01T07:46:00.000Z-Colin-2020-04-01T07:34:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Ymblanter-2020-04-01T07:46:00.000Z-Colin-2020-04-01T07:34:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><a href="/wiki/User:Ymblanter" title="User:Ymblanter"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Colin-2020-04-01T08:02:00.000Z-Ymblanter-2020-04-01T07:46:00.000Z"></span>Ymblanter</a>, thank you very much for your quick confirmation. There are no magic databases. The RFC focused on the MSH Price Guide database as a representative example of such databases. <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://www.drugs.com/price-guide/simvastatin">Drugs.com</a> and <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://bnf.nice.org.uk/medicinal-forms/simvastatin.html">BNF</a> are similar, though with an even greater choice of formulations and dose strengths as you'd expect from developed nations. The BNF also lists, for each formulation and strength, prices from many suppliers to the NHS, generic and branded, which are not all the same. The <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://data.medicaid.gov/Drug-Pricing-and-Payment/NADAC-as-of-2019-11-27/qjsh-shte">NADAC</a> prices are even worse (you can't link to a particular drug, which must be searched for by hand) and offer an oddly limited set of formulations and dose. Both NADAC and Drugs.com give official list prices (wholesale and retail respectively) and it is well known that these prices are not in fact the ones paid by pharmacies or by customers. GoodRX has more accurate retail prices, after discount coupons, though the mix of prices varies depending on which of their many partner retailers you shop at, and where you live in the US. The BNF website is unavailable outside of the UK and GoodRX is unavailable outside of the US, making their data harder for readers to verify. The mix of wholesale and retail, list and discounted prices further complicates their use on Wiki articles where prices get juxtaposed. Further, none of these sources are able to list the official price paid by health services for the extremely expensive cancer drugs (BNF give the official list price the drug company wants you to see, and includes a warning to indicate this) -- the huge discount negotiated is a commercial secret. -- <a href="/wiki/User:Colin" title="User:Colin">Colin</a>°<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Colin" title="User talk:Colin"><sup>Talk</sup></a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_136#c-Colin-2020-04-01T08:02:00.000Z-Ymblanter-2020-04-01T07:46:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">08:02, 1 April 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Colin-2020-04-01T08:02:00.000Z-Ymblanter-2020-04-01T07:46:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Colin-2020-04-01T08:02:00.000Z-Ymblanter-2020-04-01T07:46:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl> <ul><li><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Tryptofish-2020-04-13T23:08:00.000Z-Colin-2020-04-01T07:34:00.000Z"></span>Portions of this discussion have been copied to <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Manual_of_Style/Medicine-related_articles/RFC_on_pharmaceutical_drug_prices#Post_RFC_Addenda" title="Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style/Medicine-related articles/RFC on pharmaceutical drug prices">Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style/Medicine-related articles/RFC on pharmaceutical drug prices#Post RFC Addenda</a>, where I have asked a question. --<a href="/wiki/User:Tryptofish" title="User:Tryptofish">Tryptofish</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Tryptofish" title="User talk:Tryptofish">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_136#c-Tryptofish-2020-04-13T23:08:00.000Z-Colin-2020-04-01T07:34:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:08, 13 April 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Tryptofish-2020-04-13T23:08:00.000Z-Colin-2020-04-01T07:34:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Tryptofish-2020-04-13T23:08:00.000Z-Colin-2020-04-01T07:34:00.000Z"></span></li></ul> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading3"><h3 id="Drug_price_databases_rejected_as_the_sole_source" data-mw-thread-id="h-Drug_price_databases_rejected_as_the_sole_source-RFC_on_pharmaceutical_drug_prices_/currently_at_ArbCom-2020-03-30T15:43:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Drug_price_databases_rejected_as_the_sole_source-RFC_on_pharmaceutical_drug_prices_/currently_at_ArbCom-2020-03-30T15:43:00.000Z"></span>Drug price databases rejected as the sole source<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Drug_price_databases_rejected_as_the_sole_source-RFC_on_pharmaceutical_drug_prices_/currently_at_ArbCom-2020-03-30T15:43:00.000Z"></span></h3></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-WhatamIdoing-2020-03-30T15:43:00.000Z-Drug_price_databases_rejected_as_the_sole_source"></span>The RFC's conclusions also say <span class="example" style="font-family: Georgia, 'DejaVu Serif', serif; color: var(--color-content-added, #006400);">"Where pricing information is included, claims should be sourced to reliable, secondary sources and not solely primary source data from price databases."</span> This statement does not restrict itself to the introduction. It applies to all drug price content in the entire article. </p><p>In keeping with my understanding of this conclusion, I removed a claim in <a href="/wiki/Simvastatin" title="Simvastatin">Simvastatin</a> that was sourced solely to primary source data from the MSH price database. James put it back in the article with slightly different wording at <a href="/wiki/Simvastatin#Cost" title="Simvastatin">Simvastatin#Cost</a>. It is still sourced solely to primary source data from a drug price database (a database that, because they're re-organizing their website, can only be accessed via tables in a PDF at the moment). </p><p><a href="/wiki/User:Ymblanter" title="User:Ymblanter">Ymblanter</a> and <a href="/wiki/User:Wugapodes" title="User:Wugapodes">Wugapodes</a>, when you said that it's not okay to source drug price content solely to the drug price databases, did you mean to include, well, sourcing this drug price content solely to the MSH drug price database? Do you think that including that sentence, with that single source, is in keeping with the community's consensus or against it? <a href="/wiki/User:WhatamIdoing" title="User:WhatamIdoing">WhatamIdoing</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:WhatamIdoing" title="User talk:WhatamIdoing">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_136#c-WhatamIdoing-2020-03-30T15:43:00.000Z-Drug_price_databases_rejected_as_the_sole_source" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:43, 30 March 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-WhatamIdoing-2020-03-30T15:43:00.000Z-Drug_price_databases_rejected_as_the_sole_source"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-WhatamIdoing-2020-03-30T15:43:00.000Z-Drug_price_databases_rejected_as_the_sole_source"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Ymblanter-2020-03-30T15:48:00.000Z-WhatamIdoing-2020-03-30T15:43:00.000Z"></span>We believe that the RfC established that sourcing prices only from a database involves <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:OR" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:OR">original research</a>. If there are some issues (like, I do not know, one database which covers some ground and does not require interpretation) which have not been discussed during this RfC then they should be discussed at the talk page. I can not really comment on the specific case.--<a href="/wiki/User:Ymblanter" title="User:Ymblanter">Ymblanter</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Ymblanter" title="User talk:Ymblanter">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_136#c-Ymblanter-2020-03-30T15:48:00.000Z-WhatamIdoing-2020-03-30T15:43:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:48, 30 March 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Ymblanter-2020-03-30T15:48:00.000Z-WhatamIdoing-2020-03-30T15:43:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Ymblanter-2020-03-30T15:48:00.000Z-WhatamIdoing-2020-03-30T15:43:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Doc_James-2020-03-30T19:40:00.000Z-Ymblanter-2020-03-30T15:48:00.000Z"></span>Sure we can adjust these so no interpretation is required. Claims around pricing were not sololy based on price databases but based on multiple sources. <a href="/wiki/User:Doc_James" title="User:Doc James"><span style="color:#0000f1"><b>Doc James</b></span></a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Doc_James" title="User talk:Doc James">talk</a> · <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Doc_James" title="Special:Contributions/Doc James">contribs</a> · <a href="/wiki/Special:EmailUser/Doc_James" title="Special:EmailUser/Doc James">email</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_136#c-Doc_James-2020-03-30T19:40:00.000Z-Ymblanter-2020-03-30T15:48:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:40, 30 March 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Doc_James-2020-03-30T19:40:00.000Z-Ymblanter-2020-03-30T15:48:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Doc_James-2020-03-30T19:40:00.000Z-Ymblanter-2020-03-30T15:48:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><a href="/wiki/User:Doc_James" title="User:Doc James"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-WhatamIdoing-2020-03-30T21:12:00.000Z-Doc_James-2020-03-30T19:40:00.000Z"></span>Doc James</a>, the sentence I'm discussing about today is the one that currently says:</dd> <dd><span class="example" style="font-family: Georgia, 'DejaVu Serif', serif; color: var(--color-content-added, #006400);">The wholesale cost in some <a href="/wiki/LMIC" class="mw-redirect" title="LMIC">LMIC</a> is around US$0.01 to 0.15 per 20 mg dose as of 2014<sup class="plainlinks noexcerpt noprint asof-tag update" style="display:none;"><a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_136&action=edit">[update]</a></sup>.<sup id="cite_ref-IDPI2014_10-0" class="reference"><a href="#cite_note-IDPI2014-10"><span class="cite-bracket">[</span>1<span class="cite-bracket">]</span></a></sup></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1232521257"><div class="reflist-talk"> <p class="reflist-talk-title">References</p> <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1239543626"><div class="reflist"> <div class="mw-references-wrap"><ol class="references"> <li id="cite_note-IDPI2014-10"><span class="mw-cite-backlink"><b><a href="#cite_ref-IDPI2014_10-0">^</a></b></span> <span class="reference-text"><link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1238218222"><cite class="citation web cs1"><a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://apps.who.int/medicinedocs/documents/s21982en/s21982en.pdf">"Simvastatin"</a> <span class="cs1-format">(PDF)</span>. <i>International Drug Price Indicator Guide</i><span class="reference-accessdate">. Retrieved <span class="nowrap">28 November</span> 2015</span>.</cite><span title="ctx_ver=Z39.88-2004&rft_val_fmt=info%3Aofi%2Ffmt%3Akev%3Amtx%3Ajournal&rft.genre=unknown&rft.jtitle=International+Drug+Price+Indicator+Guide&rft.atitle=Simvastatin&rft_id=https%3A%2F%2Fapps.who.int%2Fmedicinedocs%2Fdocuments%2Fs21982en%2Fs21982en.pdf&rfr_id=info%3Asid%2Fen.wikipedia.org%3AWikipedia+talk%3AWikiProject+Medicine%2FArchive+136" class="Z3988"></span></span> </li> </ol></div></div> </div> <dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd>That looks like exactly one (1) citation, to a drug price database, as in a claim that is "sourced solely to primary source data from a drug price database". Are you claiming that you took this information upon some other, uncited sources? Or do you agree that this single sentence is, in fact, cited solely to a single drug database? <a href="/wiki/User:WhatamIdoing" title="User:WhatamIdoing">WhatamIdoing</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:WhatamIdoing" title="User talk:WhatamIdoing">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_136#c-WhatamIdoing-2020-03-30T21:12:00.000Z-Doc_James-2020-03-30T19:40:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:12, 30 March 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-WhatamIdoing-2020-03-30T21:12:00.000Z-Doc_James-2020-03-30T19:40:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-WhatamIdoing-2020-03-30T21:12:00.000Z-Doc_James-2020-03-30T19:40:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Doc_James-2020-03-30T21:21:00.000Z-WhatamIdoing-2020-03-30T21:12:00.000Z"></span>The discussion of prices generally is supported by a number of citations. The topic of prices is not just supported by that reference. <a href="/wiki/User:Doc_James" title="User:Doc James"><span style="color:#0000f1"><b>Doc James</b></span></a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Doc_James" title="User talk:Doc James">talk</a> · <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Doc_James" title="Special:Contributions/Doc James">contribs</a> · <a href="/wiki/Special:EmailUser/Doc_James" title="Special:EmailUser/Doc James">email</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_136#c-Doc_James-2020-03-30T21:21:00.000Z-WhatamIdoing-2020-03-30T21:12:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:21, 30 March 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Doc_James-2020-03-30T21:21:00.000Z-WhatamIdoing-2020-03-30T21:12:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Doc_James-2020-03-30T21:21:00.000Z-WhatamIdoing-2020-03-30T21:12:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Doc_James-2020-03-30T19:44:00.000Z-Drug_price_databases_rejected_as_the_sole_source"></span>Additionally there was no consensus to scrub prices for medications based on the popular press such as the BBC.<a rel="nofollow" class="external autonumber" href="http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/politics_show/7192271.stm">[16]</a> <a href="/wiki/User:Doc_James" title="User:Doc James"><span style="color:#0000f1"><b>Doc James</b></span></a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Doc_James" title="User talk:Doc James">talk</a> · <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Doc_James" title="Special:Contributions/Doc James">contribs</a> · <a href="/wiki/Special:EmailUser/Doc_James" title="Special:EmailUser/Doc James">email</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_136#c-Doc_James-2020-03-30T19:44:00.000Z-Drug_price_databases_rejected_as_the_sole_source" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:44, 30 March 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Doc_James-2020-03-30T19:44:00.000Z-Drug_price_databases_rejected_as_the_sole_source"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Doc_James-2020-03-30T19:44:00.000Z-Drug_price_databases_rejected_as_the_sole_source"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Wugapodes-2020-03-30T21:15:00.000Z-Doc_James-2020-03-30T19:44:00.000Z"></span>To add to Ymblanter's point, I took that language from <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:MEDRS" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:MEDRS">WP:MEDRS</a> which says to prefer secondary sources to primary sources. If primary sources like price databases are used anywhere in an article, they should be used with caution in line with <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:PRIMARY" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:PRIMARY">our existing guidance on the use of primary sources</a>. <small>(<a href="/wiki/Help:Edit_conflict" title="Help:Edit conflict">edit conflict</a>)</small> <span style="white-space: nowrap;">— <a href="/wiki/User:Wugapodes" title="User:Wugapodes">Wug·</a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Wugapodes" title="User talk:Wugapodes">a·po·des</a></span> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_136#c-Wugapodes-2020-03-30T21:15:00.000Z-Doc_James-2020-03-30T19:44:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:15, 30 March 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Wugapodes-2020-03-30T21:15:00.000Z-Doc_James-2020-03-30T19:44:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Wugapodes-2020-03-30T21:15:00.000Z-Doc_James-2020-03-30T19:44:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Doc_James-2020-03-30T21:42:00.000Z-Wugapodes-2020-03-30T21:15:00.000Z"></span>Per <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:MEDRS" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:MEDRS">WP:MEDRS</a> we also state "recognised standard textbooks by experts in a field". A book published by the World Health Organization definitely fits that criteria.<a rel="nofollow" class="external autonumber" href="https://www.msh.org/sites/default/files/msh-2015-international-medical-products-price-guide.pdf">[17]</a> So yes we are using appropriate caution. <a href="/wiki/User:Doc_James" title="User:Doc James"><span style="color:#0000f1"><b>Doc James</b></span></a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Doc_James" title="User talk:Doc James">talk</a> · <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Doc_James" title="Special:Contributions/Doc James">contribs</a> · <a href="/wiki/Special:EmailUser/Doc_James" title="Special:EmailUser/Doc James">email</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_136#c-Doc_James-2020-03-30T21:42:00.000Z-Wugapodes-2020-03-30T21:15:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:42, 30 March 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Doc_James-2020-03-30T21:42:00.000Z-Wugapodes-2020-03-30T21:15:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Doc_James-2020-03-30T21:42:00.000Z-Wugapodes-2020-03-30T21:15:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Colin-2020-04-01T07:18:00.000Z-Doc_James-2020-03-30T21:42:00.000Z"></span>That a price database (primary source) is published for convenience in PDF format, does not turn it into a "recognised standard textbook by experts in a field". A textbook is a tertiary source that builds upon primary and secondary material. This is basic stuff. The database-sourced prices must go. "Adjusting so no interpretation is required" was discussed extensively at the RFC and gives <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WEIGHT" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:WEIGHT">WP:WEIGHT</a> issues. This was confirmed by the closing admins "In addition, there are concerns that proper explanation of the situation for the indicated price would give the price undue weight." -- <a href="/wiki/User:Colin" title="User:Colin">Colin</a>°<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Colin" title="User talk:Colin"><sup>Talk</sup></a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_136#c-Colin-2020-04-01T07:18:00.000Z-Doc_James-2020-03-30T21:42:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">07:18, 1 April 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Colin-2020-04-01T07:18:00.000Z-Doc_James-2020-03-30T21:42:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Colin-2020-04-01T07:18:00.000Z-Doc_James-2020-03-30T21:42:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Colin-2020-04-02T07:39:00.000Z-Drug_price_databases_rejected_as_the_sole_source"></span>In James's Arbcom statement <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case&diff=948610469&oldid=948604937">he writes</a> (initially quoting the RFC's closing admin remarks) <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1248585704"><q class="inline-quote-talk">"Where pricing information is included, claims should be sourced to reliable, secondary sources and not solely primary source data from price databases." I do not take to mean that the price database cannot be used ever. If that was the case it would say this source published by the World Health Organization<a rel="nofollow" class="external autonumber" href="https://www.msh.org/sites/default/files/msh-2015-international-medical-products-price-guide.pdf">[18]</a> should never be used despite MEDRS stating source from the WHO are among the ideal</q> </p><p>This is not an accurate assertion of what MEDRS says. MEDRS mentions the WHO in the section "<b>Summarize scientific consensus</b>" and specificity holds up "statements and practice guidelines" from various bodies, including the WHO, as the place to find such consensus sources. MEDRS does not claim that any document published or produced internally by WHO is a suitable or even ideal source. The RFC concluded that the current practice and indeed any use, of product price databases as the sole source of a price in our articles is not allowed. It, as you put it, "cannot be used ever" as the sole source of a price. This was clarified by the admin above. All these price database are published by respected bodies and nobody questions they are accurate databases of individual product prices from a set of suppliers at a particular point in time. Exporting a raw price database into a PDF document does not turn it into a consensus statement or practice guideline from WHO. I ask that James remove his misleading statement about MEDRS and WHO. Further, I request that if James wishes to better understand the RFC conclusion, that he post that request here, and not at arbcom. -- <a href="/wiki/User:Colin" title="User:Colin">Colin</a>°<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Colin" title="User talk:Colin"><sup>Talk</sup></a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_136#c-Colin-2020-04-02T07:39:00.000Z-Drug_price_databases_rejected_as_the_sole_source" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">07:39, 2 April 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Colin-2020-04-02T07:39:00.000Z-Drug_price_databases_rejected_as_the_sole_source"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Colin-2020-04-02T07:39:00.000Z-Drug_price_databases_rejected_as_the_sole_source"></span> </p> <ul><li><a href="/wiki/Dengue_fever" title="Dengue fever"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-SandyGeorgia-2020-04-03T06:08:00.000Z-Colin-2020-04-02T07:39:00.000Z"></span>Dengue fever</a>, carrying a bronze star, is sourced largely to the World Health Org. <a href="/wiki/User:SandyGeorgia" title="User:SandyGeorgia"><b>Sandy</b><span style="color: green;">Georgia</span></a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:SandyGeorgia" title="User talk:SandyGeorgia">Talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_136#c-SandyGeorgia-2020-04-03T06:08:00.000Z-Colin-2020-04-02T07:39:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">06:08, 3 April 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-SandyGeorgia-2020-04-03T06:08:00.000Z-Colin-2020-04-02T07:39:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-SandyGeorgia-2020-04-03T06:08:00.000Z-Colin-2020-04-02T07:39:00.000Z"></span></li></ul> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading3"><h3 id="Simvastatin" data-mw-thread-id="h-Simvastatin-RFC_on_pharmaceutical_drug_prices_/currently_at_ArbCom-2020-03-30T20:16:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Simvastatin-RFC_on_pharmaceutical_drug_prices_/currently_at_ArbCom-2020-03-30T20:16:00.000Z"></span>Simvastatin<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Simvastatin-RFC_on_pharmaceutical_drug_prices_/currently_at_ArbCom-2020-03-30T20:16:00.000Z"></span></h3></div> <ul><li><span id="Simvastatin"></span><span class="plainlinks nourlexpansion lx"><a href="/wiki/Simvastatin" title="Simvastatin"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Hipal-2020-03-30T20:16:00.000Z-Simvastatin"></span>Simvastatin</a> (<a href="/wiki/Special:EditPage/Simvastatin" title="Special:EditPage/Simvastatin">edit</a> | <a href="/wiki/Talk:Simvastatin" title="Talk:Simvastatin">talk</a> | <a href="/wiki/Special:PageHistory/Simvastatin" title="Special:PageHistory/Simvastatin">history</a><span class="sysop-show"> | <a href="/wiki/Special:ProtectPage/Simvastatin" title="Special:ProtectPage/Simvastatin">protect</a> | <a href="/wiki/Special:DeletePage/Simvastatin" title="Special:DeletePage/Simvastatin">delete</a></span> | <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:WhatLinksHere/Simvastatin&limit=999">links</a> | <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Simvastatin&action=watch">watch</a> | <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Log&page=Simvastatin">logs</a> | <a class="external text" href="https://tools.wmflabs.org/pageviews?pages=Simvastatin&project=en.wikipedia.org">views</a>)</span></li></ul> <p>I'm very concerned that <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Simvastatin&type=revision&diff=948095488&oldid=948095069">this introduction of pricing iformation</a> is far outside anything allowed by the RfC. --<a href="/wiki/User:Hipal" title="User:Hipal">Hipal/Ronz</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Hipal" title="User talk:Hipal">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_136#c-Hipal-2020-03-30T20:16:00.000Z-Simvastatin" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:16, 30 March 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Hipal-2020-03-30T20:16:00.000Z-Simvastatin"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Hipal-2020-03-30T20:16:00.000Z-Simvastatin"></span> </p> <dl><dd><dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Doc_James-2020-03-30T20:21:00.000Z-Hipal-2020-03-30T20:16:00.000Z"></span>That is not a numerical price. Anyway I guess we have our next RfC. <a href="/wiki/User:Doc_James" title="User:Doc James"><span style="color:#0000f1"><b>Doc James</b></span></a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Doc_James" title="User talk:Doc James">talk</a> · <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Doc_James" title="Special:Contributions/Doc James">contribs</a> · <a href="/wiki/Special:EmailUser/Doc_James" title="Special:EmailUser/Doc James">email</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_136#c-Doc_James-2020-03-30T20:21:00.000Z-Hipal-2020-03-30T20:16:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:21, 30 March 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Doc_James-2020-03-30T20:21:00.000Z-Hipal-2020-03-30T20:16:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Doc_James-2020-03-30T20:21:00.000Z-Hipal-2020-03-30T20:16:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Hipal-2020-03-30T20:23:00.000Z-Doc_James-2020-03-30T20:21:00.000Z"></span>I'd rather just go to ArbCom. --<a href="/wiki/User:Hipal" title="User:Hipal">Hipal/Ronz</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Hipal" title="User talk:Hipal">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_136#c-Hipal-2020-03-30T20:23:00.000Z-Doc_James-2020-03-30T20:21:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:23, 30 March 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Hipal-2020-03-30T20:23:00.000Z-Doc_James-2020-03-30T20:21:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Hipal-2020-03-30T20:23:00.000Z-Doc_James-2020-03-30T20:21:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-CFCF-2020-03-30T20:44:00.000Z-Hipal-2020-03-30T20:16:00.000Z"></span>I'm not seeing the issue either, I don't see how it violates:</dd></dl></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1248585704"><q class="inline-quote-talk">Where secondary sources discuss pricing extensively (insulin being a frequently cited example), that information may be worth including in the article; where there is little discussion of pricing in secondary sources, it generally should not be included. Drugs which fall into the grey area between these extremes should be discussed on a case-by-case basis. Where pricing information is included, claims should be sourced to reliable, secondary sources and not solely primary source data from price databases.</q></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd>All that says is that inclusion is subject to discussion — which we rightfully can have here or at <a href="/wiki/Talk:Simvastatin" title="Talk:Simvastatin">Talk:Simvastatin</a>, if necessary.</dd> <dd>Immediately bringing up ArbCom over: a single edit, which relies on secondary sources in line with the RfC summary — certainly feels like <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:INTIMIDATION" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:INTIMIDATION">WP:INTIMIDATION</a>. I mean this is just saying "that edit's not allowed", without even going into what makes the edit forbidden — which is a conduct violation per <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:BUREAUCRACY" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:BUREAUCRACY">WP:BUREAUCRACY</a> (a policy).<br/>In addition, the skipping of discussion and simply pointing fingers — is explicitly against the RfC, which says: <b>discuss</b>.<br/>What it does look like is <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikihounding" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:Wikihounding">WP:Wikihounding</a>. <dl><dd>P.S. It's definitely Wikihounding, because there is even a clear discussion post here <a href="/wiki/Talk:Simvastatin#In_depth_discussion" title="Talk:Simvastatin">Talk:Simvastatin#In_depth_discussion</a>, predating the bringing forth of concerns here; a discussion in which the user threatening taking things to arbitration has made no attempt to engage in.</dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd><a href="/wiki/User:CFCF" class="mw-redirect" title="User:CFCF"><span style="color:#014225;font-family: sans-serif;background:#D0F0C0"><b>Carl Fredrik</b></span></a><span style="font-size: .90em;"><a href="/wiki/User_talk:CFCF" title="User talk:CFCF"><sup> talk</sup></a></span> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_136#c-CFCF-2020-03-30T20:44:00.000Z-Hipal-2020-03-30T20:16:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:44, 30 March 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-CFCF-2020-03-30T20:44:00.000Z-Hipal-2020-03-30T20:16:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-CFCF-2020-03-30T20:44:00.000Z-Hipal-2020-03-30T20:16:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Hipal-2020-03-30T21:18:00.000Z-CFCF-2020-03-30T20:44:00.000Z"></span>As I said, ArbCom. We put it off, hoping the RfC would allow us to avoid it, but clearly that's not the case.</dd> <dd>Of course, editors can at any time <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:FOC" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:FOC">WP:FOC</a> and demonstrate some understanding of the RfC and applicable policies. --<a href="/wiki/User:Hipal" title="User:Hipal">Hipal/Ronz</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Hipal" title="User talk:Hipal">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_136#c-Hipal-2020-03-30T21:18:00.000Z-CFCF-2020-03-30T20:44:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:18, 30 March 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Hipal-2020-03-30T21:18:00.000Z-CFCF-2020-03-30T20:44:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Hipal-2020-03-30T21:18:00.000Z-CFCF-2020-03-30T20:44:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-WhatamIdoing-2020-03-30T22:09:00.000Z-Hipal-2020-03-30T21:18:00.000Z"></span>I think that <a rel="nofollow" class="external free" href="http://www.onlinejacc.org/content/71/5/564">http://www.onlinejacc.org/content/71/5/564</a> is a good source. However, I'm concerned that the source doesn't actually seem to say that this specific drug has a relatively low cost (also: relative to what?). Instead, it says that most drugs (not necessarily this one) aren't affordable to most people outside of high-income countries, that WHO decided that statins (not necessarily this one) are generally cost-effective, and that MSH's <a href="/wiki/International_Medical_Products_Price_Guide" title="International Medical Products Price Guide">International Medical Products Price Guide</a> said the wholesale cost of simvastatin dropped to $40 per patient per year, compared to the $1200 that was charged while it was under patent protection. Editors can't take "most drugs aren't affordable", "statins are cost-effective", and "this price went down" and add that up into a simplistic statement that it has a "relatively low cost". <a href="/wiki/User:WhatamIdoing" title="User:WhatamIdoing">WhatamIdoing</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:WhatamIdoing" title="User talk:WhatamIdoing">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_136#c-WhatamIdoing-2020-03-30T22:09:00.000Z-Hipal-2020-03-30T21:18:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:09, 30 March 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-WhatamIdoing-2020-03-30T22:09:00.000Z-Hipal-2020-03-30T21:18:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-WhatamIdoing-2020-03-30T22:09:00.000Z-Hipal-2020-03-30T21:18:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Doc_James-2020-03-30T22:16:00.000Z-WhatamIdoing-2020-03-30T22:09:00.000Z"></span>Relatively inexpensive in the grand scheme of medication prices. This source is clearer if you need "Simvastatin, used for the treatment of hypercholesterolemia, is a universally accepted and relatively inexpensive drug."<a rel="nofollow" class="external autonumber" href="https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23066263">[19]</a> <a href="/wiki/User:Doc_James" title="User:Doc James"><span style="color:#0000f1"><b>Doc James</b></span></a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Doc_James" title="User talk:Doc James">talk</a> · <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Doc_James" title="Special:Contributions/Doc James">contribs</a> · <a href="/wiki/Special:EmailUser/Doc_James" title="Special:EmailUser/Doc James">email</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_136#c-Doc_James-2020-03-30T22:16:00.000Z-WhatamIdoing-2020-03-30T22:09:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:16, 30 March 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Doc_James-2020-03-30T22:16:00.000Z-WhatamIdoing-2020-03-30T22:09:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Doc_James-2020-03-30T22:16:00.000Z-WhatamIdoing-2020-03-30T22:09:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <ul><li><a href="/wiki/User:Doc_James" title="User:Doc James"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-30T22:08:00.000Z-Hipal-2020-03-30T20:16:00.000Z"></span>James</a>, could you please begin to use edit summaries? Editors removing the text per the RFC most kindly used full and descriptive edit summaries about why the text was being removed. <a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Simvastatin&diff=prev&oldid=947925558">[20]</a> <a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Simvastatin&diff=948185292&oldid=948097756">[21]</a> This is helpful for the several dozen editors who tried over years to remove drug price text and may not know why these edits are happening. Since there are 530 articles to be reviewed, these edit summaries are helpful. <div class="paragraphbreak" style="margin-top:0.5em"></div> When reinstating text already removed once, per the RFC-- knowing that this reinstatement is controversial-- an <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Simvastatin&diff=948064020&oldid=947925558">edit summary should be more descriptive than "adjusted"</a>. Thanks, <a href="/wiki/User:SandyGeorgia" title="User:SandyGeorgia"><b>Sandy</b><span style="color: green;">Georgia</span></a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:SandyGeorgia" title="User talk:SandyGeorgia">Talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_136#c-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-30T22:08:00.000Z-Hipal-2020-03-30T20:16:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:08, 30 March 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-30T22:08:00.000Z-Hipal-2020-03-30T20:16:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-30T22:08:00.000Z-Hipal-2020-03-30T20:16:00.000Z"></span></li></ul> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading4"><h4 id="RfC" data-mw-thread-id="h-RfC-Simvastatin-2020-03-30T21:34:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-RfC-Simvastatin-2020-03-30T21:34:00.000Z"></span>RfC<span data-mw-comment-end="h-RfC-Simvastatin-2020-03-30T21:34:00.000Z"></span></h4></div> <ul><li><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Doc_James-2020-03-30T21:34:00.000Z-RfC"></span>Started the RfC here <a href="/wiki/Talk:Simvastatin#Clarification_of_RfC" title="Talk:Simvastatin">Talk:Simvastatin#Clarification_of_RfC</a>. <a href="/wiki/User:Doc_James" title="User:Doc James"><span style="color:#0000f1"><b>Doc James</b></span></a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Doc_James" title="User talk:Doc James">talk</a> · <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Doc_James" title="Special:Contributions/Doc James">contribs</a> · <a href="/wiki/Special:EmailUser/Doc_James" title="Special:EmailUser/Doc James">email</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_136#c-Doc_James-2020-03-30T21:34:00.000Z-RfC" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:34, 30 March 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Doc_James-2020-03-30T21:34:00.000Z-RfC"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Doc_James-2020-03-30T21:34:00.000Z-RfC"></span></li></ul> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading3"><h3 id="Atorvastatin" data-mw-thread-id="h-Atorvastatin-RFC_on_pharmaceutical_drug_prices_/currently_at_ArbCom-2020-03-30T22:07:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Atorvastatin-RFC_on_pharmaceutical_drug_prices_/currently_at_ArbCom-2020-03-30T22:07:00.000Z"></span>Atorvastatin<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Atorvastatin-RFC_on_pharmaceutical_drug_prices_/currently_at_ArbCom-2020-03-30T22:07:00.000Z"></span></h3></div> <ul><li><span id="Atorvastatin"></span><span class="plainlinks nourlexpansion lx"><a href="/wiki/Atorvastatin" title="Atorvastatin"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Hipal-2020-03-30T22:07:00.000Z-Atorvastatin"></span>Atorvastatin</a> (<a href="/wiki/Special:EditPage/Atorvastatin" title="Special:EditPage/Atorvastatin">edit</a> | <a href="/wiki/Talk:Atorvastatin" title="Talk:Atorvastatin">talk</a> | <a href="/wiki/Special:PageHistory/Atorvastatin" title="Special:PageHistory/Atorvastatin">history</a><span class="sysop-show"> | <a href="/wiki/Special:ProtectPage/Atorvastatin" title="Special:ProtectPage/Atorvastatin">protect</a> | <a href="/wiki/Special:DeletePage/Atorvastatin" title="Special:DeletePage/Atorvastatin">delete</a></span> | <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:WhatLinksHere/Atorvastatin&limit=999">links</a> | <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Atorvastatin&action=watch">watch</a> | <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Log&page=Atorvastatin">logs</a> | <a class="external text" href="https://tools.wmflabs.org/pageviews?pages=Atorvastatin&project=en.wikipedia.org">views</a>)</span></li></ul> <p>Too near the edit to Simvastatin: <a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Atorvastatin&diff=prev&oldid=948234764">[22]</a> --<a href="/wiki/User:Hipal" title="User:Hipal">Hipal/Ronz</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Hipal" title="User talk:Hipal">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_136#c-Hipal-2020-03-30T22:07:00.000Z-Atorvastatin" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:07, 30 March 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Hipal-2020-03-30T22:07:00.000Z-Atorvastatin"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Hipal-2020-03-30T22:07:00.000Z-Atorvastatin"></span> </p> <ul><li><a href="/wiki/User:Doc_James" title="User:Doc James"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-30T22:11:00.000Z-Hipal-2020-03-30T22:07:00.000Z"></span>James</a>, edit summaries once again:<a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Atorvastatin&diff=948234764&oldid=948222124">[23]</a>. When you are inserting text that is known to be controversial, an edit summary of "adjusted" is insufficient. <a href="/wiki/User:SandyGeorgia" title="User:SandyGeorgia"><b>Sandy</b><span style="color: green;">Georgia</span></a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:SandyGeorgia" title="User talk:SandyGeorgia">Talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_136#c-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-30T22:11:00.000Z-Hipal-2020-03-30T22:07:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:11, 30 March 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-30T22:11:00.000Z-Hipal-2020-03-30T22:07:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-30T22:11:00.000Z-Hipal-2020-03-30T22:07:00.000Z"></span></li></ul> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading3"><h3 id="List_of_pharmaceutical_prices_edited" data-mw-thread-id="h-List_of_pharmaceutical_prices_edited-RFC_on_pharmaceutical_drug_prices_/currently_at_ArbCom-2020-03-30T22:47:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-List_of_pharmaceutical_prices_edited-RFC_on_pharmaceutical_drug_prices_/currently_at_ArbCom-2020-03-30T22:47:00.000Z"></span>List of pharmaceutical prices edited<span data-mw-comment-end="h-List_of_pharmaceutical_prices_edited-RFC_on_pharmaceutical_drug_prices_/currently_at_ArbCom-2020-03-30T22:47:00.000Z"></span></h3></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-30T22:47:00.000Z-List_of_pharmaceutical_prices_edited"></span>So much for a systematic method of processing through the RFC conclusion. These are the articles edited so far, best I can tell. The list is likely incomplete because of an absence of edit summaries; please add any (alphabetical) I missed. <a href="/wiki/User:SandyGeorgia" title="User:SandyGeorgia"><b>Sandy</b><span style="color: green;">Georgia</span></a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:SandyGeorgia" title="User talk:SandyGeorgia">Talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_136#c-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-30T22:47:00.000Z-List_of_pharmaceutical_prices_edited" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:47, 30 March 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-30T22:47:00.000Z-List_of_pharmaceutical_prices_edited"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-30T22:47:00.000Z-List_of_pharmaceutical_prices_edited"></span> </p> <dl><dd><s><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-31T00:36:00.000Z-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-30T22:47:00.000Z"></span>I have not had a chance to look at Pyrimethamine or Trimethoprim; will leave them to others.</s> <a href="/wiki/User:SandyGeorgia" title="User:SandyGeorgia"><b>Sandy</b><span style="color: green;">Georgia</span></a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:SandyGeorgia" title="User talk:SandyGeorgia">Talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_136#c-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-31T00:36:00.000Z-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-30T22:47:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:36, 31 March 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-31T00:36:00.000Z-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-30T22:47:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-31T00:36:00.000Z-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-30T22:47:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-31T02:05:00.000Z-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-31T00:36:00.000Z"></span>Finished, below. <a href="/wiki/User:SandyGeorgia" title="User:SandyGeorgia"><b>Sandy</b><span style="color: green;">Georgia</span></a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:SandyGeorgia" title="User talk:SandyGeorgia">Talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_136#c-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-31T02:05:00.000Z-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-31T00:36:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:05, 31 March 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-31T02:05:00.000Z-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-31T00:36:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-31T02:05:00.000Z-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-31T00:36:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl> <ul><li><span><a href="/wiki/Atorvastatin" title="Atorvastatin">Atorvastatin</a> <span class="plainlinks lx">(<a href="/wiki/Special:EditPage/Atorvastatin" title="Special:EditPage/Atorvastatin">edit</a> | <a href="/wiki/Talk:Atorvastatin" title="Talk:Atorvastatin">talk</a> | <a href="/wiki/Special:PageHistory/Atorvastatin" title="Special:PageHistory/Atorvastatin">history</a> | <a href="/wiki/Special:WhatLinksHere/Atorvastatin" title="Special:WhatLinksHere/Atorvastatin">links</a> | <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Atorvastatin&action=watch">watch</a> | <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3ALog&page=Atorvastatin">logs</a>)</span></span> <dl><dd><a href="/wiki/Talk:Atorvastatin#Price_information" title="Talk:Atorvastatin">Talk:Atorvastatin#Price_information</a></dd></dl></li> <li><span><a href="/wiki/Ethosuximide" title="Ethosuximide">Ethosuximide</a> <span class="plainlinks lx">(<a href="/wiki/Special:EditPage/Ethosuximide" title="Special:EditPage/Ethosuximide">edit</a> | <a href="/wiki/Talk:Ethosuximide" title="Talk:Ethosuximide">talk</a> | <a href="/wiki/Special:PageHistory/Ethosuximide" title="Special:PageHistory/Ethosuximide">history</a> | <a href="/wiki/Special:WhatLinksHere/Ethosuximide" title="Special:WhatLinksHere/Ethosuximide">links</a> | <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Ethosuximide&action=watch">watch</a> | <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3ALog&page=Ethosuximide">logs</a>)</span></span> <dl><dd><a href="/wiki/Talk:Ethosuximide#RfC" title="Talk:Ethosuximide">Talk:Ethosuximide#RfC</a></dd></dl></li> <li><span><a href="/wiki/Pyrimethamine" title="Pyrimethamine">Pyrimethamine</a> <span class="plainlinks lx">(<a href="/wiki/Special:EditPage/Pyrimethamine" title="Special:EditPage/Pyrimethamine">edit</a> | <a href="/wiki/Talk:Pyrimethamine" title="Talk:Pyrimethamine">talk</a> | <a href="/wiki/Special:PageHistory/Pyrimethamine" title="Special:PageHistory/Pyrimethamine">history</a> | <a href="/wiki/Special:WhatLinksHere/Pyrimethamine" title="Special:WhatLinksHere/Pyrimethamine">links</a> | <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Pyrimethamine&action=watch">watch</a> | <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3ALog&page=Pyrimethamine">logs</a>)</span></span> <dl><dd><a href="/wiki/Talk:Pyrimethamine#Multiple_problems" title="Talk:Pyrimethamine">Talk:Pyrimethamine#Multiple_problems</a></dd></dl></li> <li><span><a href="/wiki/Simvastatin" title="Simvastatin">Simvastatin</a> <span class="plainlinks lx">(<a href="/wiki/Special:EditPage/Simvastatin" title="Special:EditPage/Simvastatin">edit</a> | <a href="/wiki/Talk:Simvastatin" title="Talk:Simvastatin">talk</a> | <a href="/wiki/Special:PageHistory/Simvastatin" title="Special:PageHistory/Simvastatin">history</a> | <a href="/wiki/Special:WhatLinksHere/Simvastatin" title="Special:WhatLinksHere/Simvastatin">links</a> | <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Simvastatin&action=watch">watch</a> | <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3ALog&page=Simvastatin">logs</a>)</span></span> <dl><dd><a href="/wiki/Talk:Simvastatin#Clarification_of_RfC" title="Talk:Simvastatin">Talk:Simvastatin#Clarification_of_RfC</a></dd></dl></li> <li><span><a href="/wiki/Trimethoprim/sulfamethoxazole" title="Trimethoprim/sulfamethoxazole">Trimethoprim/sulfamethoxazole</a> <span class="plainlinks lx">(<a href="/wiki/Special:EditPage/Trimethoprim/sulfamethoxazole" title="Special:EditPage/Trimethoprim/sulfamethoxazole">edit</a> | <a href="/wiki/Talk:Trimethoprim/sulfamethoxazole" title="Talk:Trimethoprim/sulfamethoxazole">talk</a> | <a href="/wiki/Special:PageHistory/Trimethoprim/sulfamethoxazole" title="Special:PageHistory/Trimethoprim/sulfamethoxazole">history</a> | <a href="/wiki/Special:WhatLinksHere/Trimethoprim/sulfamethoxazole" title="Special:WhatLinksHere/Trimethoprim/sulfamethoxazole">links</a> | <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Trimethoprim/sulfamethoxazole&action=watch">watch</a> | <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3ALog&page=Trimethoprim%2Fsulfamethoxazole">logs</a>)</span></span> <dl><dd><a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Trimethoprim%2Fsulfamethoxazole&type=revision&diff=948100708&oldid=943851269">[24]</a></dd></dl></li></ul> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading3"><h3 id="Ethosuximide" data-mw-thread-id="h-Ethosuximide-RFC_on_pharmaceutical_drug_prices_/currently_at_ArbCom-2020-03-30T23:08:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Ethosuximide-RFC_on_pharmaceutical_drug_prices_/currently_at_ArbCom-2020-03-30T23:08:00.000Z"></span><a href="/wiki/Ethosuximide" title="Ethosuximide">Ethosuximide</a><span data-mw-comment-end="h-Ethosuximide-RFC_on_pharmaceutical_drug_prices_/currently_at_ArbCom-2020-03-30T23:08:00.000Z"></span></h3></div> <p><a href="/wiki/User:Doc_James" title="User:Doc James"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-30T23:08:00.000Z-Ethosuximide"></span>James</a>, I am starting through the list above (others have already looked at atorvastatin and simvastatin). </p><div class="paragraphbreak" style="margin-top:0.5em"></div><p> I am concerned that <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Ethosuximide&oldid=948102937#Cost">this addition</a> you made at <a href="/wiki/Ethosuximide" title="Ethosuximide">ethosuximide</a> is firmly against the conclusions of the RFC on many levels. The RFC concerned itself with making sure our drug pricing content upholds important policies of <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:V" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:V">WP:V</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WEIGHT" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:WEIGHT">WP:WEIGHT</a> and <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:NOT" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:NOT">WP:NOT</a>. Why would we present <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://www.google.com/books/edition/The_Treatment_of_Epilepsy/vFQFePTM-oAC?hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=Ethosuximide+cost&pg=PA147">2001 data from one country, Italy</a> ("costs are based on 2001 retail prices in Italy")? How does that help our readers? This is the very situation we just discussed at the RFC, yet you added a statement as of 2008 that used 2001 data from one country, Italy, which is not "most of the world" and is dated? That is specifically what we discussed in the RFC. How does this source verify "Ethosuximide, along with phenobarbital and phenytoin, is one of the few antiepileptic medications that people can generally afford in most areas of the world as of 2008"? What am I missing? <a href="/wiki/User:SandyGeorgia" title="User:SandyGeorgia"><b>Sandy</b><span style="color: green;">Georgia</span></a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:SandyGeorgia" title="User talk:SandyGeorgia">Talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_136#c-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-30T23:08:00.000Z-Ethosuximide" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:08, 30 March 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-30T23:08:00.000Z-Ethosuximide"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-30T23:08:00.000Z-Ethosuximide"></span> </p><dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Doc_James-2020-03-30T23:12:00.000Z-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-30T23:08:00.000Z"></span>The RfC says:</dd> <dd>"There is no consensus on whether drug prices should be included in articles at all."</dd> <dd>Ie there is no prohibition against including medication price information in the body of the article</dd> <dd>"Where secondary sources discuss pricing extensively (insulin being a frequently cited example), that information may be worth including in the article; where there is little discussion of pricing in secondary sources, it generally should not be included."</dd> <dd>We have lots of secondary sources that discuss the costs / pricing of medications and thus extensive discussion for inclusion in the body of the text.</dd> <dd>"Drugs which fall into the grey area between these extremes should be discussed on a case-by-case basis."</dd> <dd>Sure we can go through these with RfCs one by one.</dd> <dd>"Where pricing information is included, claims should be sourced to reliable, secondary sources and not solely primary source data from price databases."</dd> <dd>Yes some secondary sources are required before including any pricing information. These are not hard to find for essential medicines at least. <a href="/wiki/User:Doc_James" title="User:Doc James"><span style="color:#0000f1"><b>Doc James</b></span></a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Doc_James" title="User talk:Doc James">talk</a> · <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Doc_James" title="Special:Contributions/Doc James">contribs</a> · <a href="/wiki/Special:EmailUser/Doc_James" title="Special:EmailUser/Doc James">email</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_136#c-Doc_James-2020-03-30T23:12:00.000Z-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-30T23:08:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:12, 30 March 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Doc_James-2020-03-30T23:12:00.000Z-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-30T23:08:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Doc_James-2020-03-30T23:12:00.000Z-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-30T23:08:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><a href="/wiki/User:Doc_James" title="User:Doc James"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-30T23:28:00.000Z-Doc_James-2020-03-30T23:12:00.000Z"></span>James</a>, yes, I understand your take on the RFC (which others disagree with). That is not the question I asked. <div class="paragraphbreak" style="margin-top:0.5em"></div>You have added a statement saying, "Ethosuximide, along with phenobarbital and phenytoin, is one of the few antiepileptic medications that people can generally afford in most areas of the world as of 2008", that is based on <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://www.google.com/books/edition/The_Treatment_of_Epilepsy/vFQFePTM-oAC?hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=Ethosuximide+cost&pg=PA147">2001 data from one country, Italy</a>. How does that meet WP:V and WP:WEIGHT? <a href="/wiki/User:SandyGeorgia" title="User:SandyGeorgia"><b>Sandy</b><span style="color: green;">Georgia</span></a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:SandyGeorgia" title="User talk:SandyGeorgia">Talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_136#c-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-30T23:28:00.000Z-Doc_James-2020-03-30T23:12:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:28, 30 March 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-30T23:28:00.000Z-Doc_James-2020-03-30T23:12:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-30T23:28:00.000Z-Doc_James-2020-03-30T23:12:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Doc_James-2020-03-30T23:34:00.000Z-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-30T23:28:00.000Z"></span>No not based on 2011 data Italy. The text says "For most patients living in these countries, only phenobarbital, phenytoin, and ethosuximdie may be avaliable at prices affordable by the general population" Referring to countries with 40% of the global population. I can start another RfC. <a href="/wiki/User:Doc_James" title="User:Doc James"><span style="color:#0000f1"><b>Doc James</b></span></a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Doc_James" title="User talk:Doc James">talk</a> · <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Doc_James" title="Special:Contributions/Doc James">contribs</a> · <a href="/wiki/Special:EmailUser/Doc_James" title="Special:EmailUser/Doc James">email</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_136#c-Doc_James-2020-03-30T23:34:00.000Z-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-30T23:28:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:34, 30 March 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Doc_James-2020-03-30T23:34:00.000Z-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-30T23:28:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Doc_James-2020-03-30T23:34:00.000Z-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-30T23:28:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><a href="/wiki/User:Doc_James" title="User:Doc James"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-30T23:46:00.000Z-Doc_James-2020-03-30T23:34:00.000Z"></span>James</a>. No, we don't need to bring in more non-WPMED editors to have a discussion about the long-standing standards upon which the reputation of our medical content was built. Is it your opinion that a source that uses 2001 data from one country (Italy) should be used to source a statement about the cost of a drug in "most areas of the world", and relevant to the year 2020? Please, directly answering the question is MUCH preferable to another RFC. TRUE discussion is always the best way to resolve content issues. Why do you consider that this source meets WEIGHT and is relevant ? As medical editors, we are accustomed to closely examining our sources and making sure the data we add is relevant and supported by the text. Regardless of whether this text is outside of the remit of MEDRS, do you believe that data (2001, one country) supports that text for the purposes of 2020? <a href="/wiki/User:SandyGeorgia" title="User:SandyGeorgia"><b>Sandy</b><span style="color: green;">Georgia</span></a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:SandyGeorgia" title="User talk:SandyGeorgia">Talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_136#c-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-30T23:46:00.000Z-Doc_James-2020-03-30T23:34:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:46, 30 March 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-30T23:46:00.000Z-Doc_James-2020-03-30T23:34:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-30T23:46:00.000Z-Doc_James-2020-03-30T23:34:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Doc_James-2020-03-30T23:51:00.000Z-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-30T23:46:00.000Z"></span>Do I think a 2008 textbook published by Wiley is a suitable source for discussion of the social and cultural aspects of a medication? Yes, yes I do. I use lots of textbooks for medical content, particularly social and cultural content. Part of the reason why I like the textbook is you can see it via google books. Sure I guess I can move to newer textbooks with less access. <a href="/wiki/User:Doc_James" title="User:Doc James"><span style="color:#0000f1"><b>Doc James</b></span></a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Doc_James" title="User talk:Doc James">talk</a> · <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Doc_James" title="Special:Contributions/Doc James">contribs</a> · <a href="/wiki/Special:EmailUser/Doc_James" title="Special:EmailUser/Doc James">email</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_136#c-Doc_James-2020-03-30T23:51:00.000Z-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-30T23:46:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:51, 30 March 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Doc_James-2020-03-30T23:51:00.000Z-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-30T23:46:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Doc_James-2020-03-30T23:51:00.000Z-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-30T23:46:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><a href="/wiki/User:Doc_James" title="User:Doc James"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-30T23:58:00.000Z-Doc_James-2020-03-30T23:51:00.000Z"></span>James</a> OK, you are happy using 2001 data to make a statement in 2020. Got that part (and I hope we don't source other medical content to that standard), but that is only one part of the question. How is WEIGHT met by the fact that this seems to be the only mention found to support a statement about cost relevant to 2020? As you know, we would NEVER allow this kind of logic for other content; why do you feel it OK to allow it for pricing? <a href="/wiki/User:SandyGeorgia" title="User:SandyGeorgia"><b>Sandy</b><span style="color: green;">Georgia</span></a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:SandyGeorgia" title="User talk:SandyGeorgia">Talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_136#c-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-30T23:58:00.000Z-Doc_James-2020-03-30T23:51:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:58, 30 March 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-30T23:58:00.000Z-Doc_James-2020-03-30T23:51:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-30T23:58:00.000Z-Doc_James-2020-03-30T23:51:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Doc_James-2020-03-31T00:03:00.000Z-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-30T23:58:00.000Z"></span>Actually this is generally what we do. We find major medical textbooks and we paraphrase them. I am using a high quality 2008 textbook. My job is not verify that the textbook got it right. Also you do not need to ping me (ie if I am not clear enough please stop pinging me). <a href="/wiki/User:Doc_James" title="User:Doc James"><span style="color:#0000f1"><b>Doc James</b></span></a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Doc_James" title="User talk:Doc James">talk</a> · <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Doc_James" title="Special:Contributions/Doc James">contribs</a> · <a href="/wiki/Special:EmailUser/Doc_James" title="Special:EmailUser/Doc James">email</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_136#c-Doc_James-2020-03-31T00:03:00.000Z-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-30T23:58:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:03, 31 March 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Doc_James-2020-03-31T00:03:00.000Z-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-30T23:58:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Doc_James-2020-03-31T00:03:00.000Z-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-30T23:58:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-31T00:16:00.000Z-Doc_James-2020-03-31T00:03:00.000Z"></span>Happy to stop pinging you, since I hate those things myself. But, you are surely aware that it was hard to solicit your participation during the RFC because you disallowed pings and were not keeping up with discussion, so I wanted to make sure you were following this discussion. OK, I believe I have the answers now. You believe that 2001 data from one country published in one book <s>almost</s> more than a decade ago meets WEIGHT and V to support a broad statement about prices in many countries. I guess we will have to agree to disagree on that point. Thanks for answering, <a href="/wiki/User:SandyGeorgia" title="User:SandyGeorgia"><b>Sandy</b><span style="color: green;">Georgia</span></a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:SandyGeorgia" title="User talk:SandyGeorgia">Talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_136#c-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-31T00:16:00.000Z-Doc_James-2020-03-31T00:03:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:16, 31 March 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-31T00:16:00.000Z-Doc_James-2020-03-31T00:03:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-31T00:16:00.000Z-Doc_James-2020-03-31T00:03:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Doc_James-2020-03-31T00:19:00.000Z-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-31T00:16:00.000Z"></span>I would suggest people read the book themselves and make up their own mind. Will work on another RfC. <a href="/wiki/User:Doc_James" title="User:Doc James"><span style="color:#0000f1"><b>Doc James</b></span></a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Doc_James" title="User talk:Doc James">talk</a> · <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Doc_James" title="Special:Contributions/Doc James">contribs</a> · <a href="/wiki/Special:EmailUser/Doc_James" title="Special:EmailUser/Doc James">email</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_136#c-Doc_James-2020-03-31T00:19:00.000Z-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-31T00:16:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:19, 31 March 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Doc_James-2020-03-31T00:19:00.000Z-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-31T00:16:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Doc_James-2020-03-31T00:19:00.000Z-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-31T00:16:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-31T00:26:00.000Z-Doc_James-2020-03-31T00:19:00.000Z"></span>Please don't. I have a dismal record when it comes to formulating RFCs, but you give me a run for my money, and we don't need another malformed RFC at this particular moment. Perhaps you will wait until more editors have offered opinions on this one, as it is rather obviously problematic. <a href="/wiki/User:SandyGeorgia" title="User:SandyGeorgia"><b>Sandy</b><span style="color: green;">Georgia</span></a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:SandyGeorgia" title="User talk:SandyGeorgia">Talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_136#c-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-31T00:26:00.000Z-Doc_James-2020-03-31T00:19:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:26, 31 March 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-31T00:26:00.000Z-Doc_James-2020-03-31T00:19:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-31T00:26:00.000Z-Doc_James-2020-03-31T00:19:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Doc_James-2020-03-31T00:42:00.000Z-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-31T00:26:00.000Z"></span>Apologies already have <a href="/wiki/Talk:Ethosuximide#RfC" title="Talk:Ethosuximide">Talk:Ethosuximide#RfC</a>. <a href="/wiki/User:Doc_James" title="User:Doc James"><span style="color:#0000f1"><b>Doc James</b></span></a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Doc_James" title="User talk:Doc James">talk</a> · <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Doc_James" title="Special:Contributions/Doc James">contribs</a> · <a href="/wiki/Special:EmailUser/Doc_James" title="Special:EmailUser/Doc James">email</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_136#c-Doc_James-2020-03-31T00:42:00.000Z-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-31T00:26:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:42, 31 March 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Doc_James-2020-03-31T00:42:00.000Z-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-31T00:26:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Doc_James-2020-03-31T00:42:00.000Z-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-31T00:26:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-31T01:22:00.000Z-Doc_James-2020-03-31T00:42:00.000Z"></span>There are five articles (listed above) edited already, and 530 disputed. Do you plan to start RFCs on every drug article edited, and do you think this is the most useful approach? <a href="/wiki/User:SandyGeorgia" title="User:SandyGeorgia"><b>Sandy</b><span style="color: green;">Georgia</span></a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:SandyGeorgia" title="User talk:SandyGeorgia">Talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_136#c-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-31T01:22:00.000Z-Doc_James-2020-03-31T00:42:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:22, 31 March 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-31T01:22:00.000Z-Doc_James-2020-03-31T00:42:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-31T01:22:00.000Z-Doc_James-2020-03-31T00:42:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Doc_James-2020-03-31T05:07:00.000Z-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-31T01:22:00.000Z"></span>I imagine we will get closer to consensus as time goes on. <a href="/wiki/User:Doc_James" title="User:Doc James"><span style="color:#0000f1"><b>Doc James</b></span></a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Doc_James" title="User talk:Doc James">talk</a> · <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Doc_James" title="Special:Contributions/Doc James">contribs</a> · <a href="/wiki/Special:EmailUser/Doc_James" title="Special:EmailUser/Doc James">email</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_136#c-Doc_James-2020-03-31T05:07:00.000Z-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-31T01:22:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">05:07, 31 March 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Doc_James-2020-03-31T05:07:00.000Z-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-31T01:22:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Doc_James-2020-03-31T05:07:00.000Z-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-31T01:22:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-WhatamIdoing-2020-03-31T01:32:00.000Z-Ethosuximide"></span>Meta comment: Speaking as one of the long-time unofficial coordinators of the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:RFC" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:RFC">WP:RFC</a> process, we're talking about the problem of overuse/misuse of RFCs again. Some of the proposals are to have a limit on the number of RFCs that any individual editor can start (e.g., no more than three a month) or to require pre-approval of RFCs (e.g., to make sure that there's a decent question, and that editors aren't jumping to a sitewide RFC without trying a normal discussion for a few days first). This ongoing discussion is partly prompted by the behavior by two WPMED-related editors, who have set records for the volume of RFCs started. I would really like to <u>not</u> have any more examples of WPMED-related editors opening multiple RFCs per week. <a href="/wiki/User:WhatamIdoing" title="User:WhatamIdoing">WhatamIdoing</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:WhatamIdoing" title="User talk:WhatamIdoing">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_136#c-WhatamIdoing-2020-03-31T01:32:00.000Z-Ethosuximide" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:32, 31 March 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-WhatamIdoing-2020-03-31T01:32:00.000Z-Ethosuximide"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-WhatamIdoing-2020-03-31T01:32:00.000Z-Ethosuximide"></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading3"><h3 id="Pyrimethamine" data-mw-thread-id="h-Pyrimethamine-RFC_on_pharmaceutical_drug_prices_/currently_at_ArbCom-2020-03-31T01:57:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Pyrimethamine-RFC_on_pharmaceutical_drug_prices_/currently_at_ArbCom-2020-03-31T01:57:00.000Z"></span>Pyrimethamine<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Pyrimethamine-RFC_on_pharmaceutical_drug_prices_/currently_at_ArbCom-2020-03-31T01:57:00.000Z"></span></h3></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-31T01:57:00.000Z-Pyrimethamine"></span>James <s>added</s> <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Pyrimethamine&diff=next&oldid=948212019">here</a> moved but left existing pricing data specifically sourced to a press release from the manufacturer, which is directly addressed at <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:NOPRICE" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:NOPRICE">WP:NOPRICE</a>. <a href="/wiki/User:SandyGeorgia" title="User:SandyGeorgia"><b>Sandy</b><span style="color: green;">Georgia</span></a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:SandyGeorgia" title="User talk:SandyGeorgia">Talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_136#c-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-31T01:57:00.000Z-Pyrimethamine" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:57, 31 March 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-31T01:57:00.000Z-Pyrimethamine"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-31T01:57:00.000Z-Pyrimethamine"></span> </p> <dl><dd><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:SOAP" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:SOAP"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Hipal-2020-03-31T02:01:00.000Z-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-31T01:57:00.000Z"></span>WP:SOAP</a> as well. --<a href="/wiki/User:Hipal" title="User:Hipal">Hipal/Ronz</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Hipal" title="User talk:Hipal">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_136#c-Hipal-2020-03-31T02:01:00.000Z-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-31T01:57:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:01, 31 March 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Hipal-2020-03-31T02:01:00.000Z-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-31T01:57:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Hipal-2020-03-31T02:01:00.000Z-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-31T01:57:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Doc_James-2020-03-31T05:09:00.000Z-Hipal-2020-03-31T02:01:00.000Z"></span>I was actually grouping content by country. The <a rel="nofollow" class="external free" href="https://www.prnewswire.com">https://www.prnewswire.com</a> was in the article before and I just moved it. <a href="/wiki/User:Doc_James" title="User:Doc James"><span style="color:#0000f1"><b>Doc James</b></span></a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Doc_James" title="User talk:Doc James">talk</a> · <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Doc_James" title="Special:Contributions/Doc James">contribs</a> · <a href="/wiki/Special:EmailUser/Doc_James" title="Special:EmailUser/Doc James">email</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_136#c-Doc_James-2020-03-31T05:09:00.000Z-Hipal-2020-03-31T02:01:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">05:09, 31 March 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Doc_James-2020-03-31T05:09:00.000Z-Hipal-2020-03-31T02:01:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Doc_James-2020-03-31T05:09:00.000Z-Hipal-2020-03-31T02:01:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-31T05:22:00.000Z-Doc_James-2020-03-31T05:09:00.000Z"></span>Struck and corrected above, with my apologies. I am curious why you did not remove the text, since that sort of content (company press release) is quite specifically addressed in the policy page, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:NOPRICE" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:NOPRICE">WP:NOPRICE</a>, and as far as I know was never disputed during the RFC. Could you clarify whether you also consider the PRnewswire source to be usable for price content? Also, this is another example where an edit summary would be helpful. Many (most?) editors when moving content, indicate that in edit summary. Because you used the same edit summary (adjusted) <a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Pyrimethamine&diff=next&oldid=948212019">[25]</a> that you used when reinstating other price content (in the articles above), I mistakenly assumed this was another reinstatement. <a href="/wiki/User:SandyGeorgia" title="User:SandyGeorgia"><b>Sandy</b><span style="color: green;">Georgia</span></a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:SandyGeorgia" title="User talk:SandyGeorgia">Talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_136#c-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-31T05:22:00.000Z-Doc_James-2020-03-31T05:09:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">05:22, 31 March 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-31T05:22:00.000Z-Doc_James-2020-03-31T05:09:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-31T05:22:00.000Z-Doc_James-2020-03-31T05:09:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Doc_James-2020-03-31T05:37:00.000Z-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-31T05:22:00.000Z"></span>I did not look at the sources. That source sucks. I was just grouping content about price by country. Removed it. <a href="/wiki/User:Doc_James" title="User:Doc James"><span style="color:#0000f1"><b>Doc James</b></span></a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Doc_James" title="User talk:Doc James">talk</a> · <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Doc_James" title="Special:Contributions/Doc James">contribs</a> · <a href="/wiki/Special:EmailUser/Doc_James" title="Special:EmailUser/Doc James">email</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_136#c-Doc_James-2020-03-31T05:37:00.000Z-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-31T05:22:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">05:37, 31 March 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Doc_James-2020-03-31T05:37:00.000Z-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-31T05:22:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Doc_James-2020-03-31T05:37:00.000Z-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-31T05:22:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><s><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-31T06:04:00.000Z-Doc_James-2020-03-31T05:37:00.000Z"></span>Glad to hear that!</s>(Oops, I see a problem there, added below). Ok, there are other problems there. We have an ungrammatical sentence in the lead, so I went to the sources to try to figure out what it meant to be saying. <ul><li><style data-mw-deduplicate="TemplateStyles:r1237805129">.mw-parser-output .talkquote{color:var(--color-base,#202122);background-color:#eaf8f4;border-left:3px solid #008560;padding:0 .8em;margin:0}.mw-parser-output .talkquote-by,.mw-parser-output .talkquote-source{margin-left:1.6em}.mw-parser-output .skin-vector-2022 .talkquote>:last-child{padding-bottom:0}@media screen{html.skin-theme-clientpref-night .mw-parser-output .talkquote{background-color:#0d261f}}@media screen and (prefers-color-scheme:dark){html.skin-theme-clientpref-os .mw-parser-output .talkquote{background-color:#0d261f}}</style><blockquote class="talkquote"><p>In the United States in 2015, when it was not available as a <a href="/wiki/Generic_medication" class="mw-redirect" title="Generic medication">generic medication</a>, and the price was increased from US$13.50 to $750 a tablet ($75,000 for a course of treatment), resulting in criticism.<sup id="cite_ref-Ric2015_11-0" class="reference"><a href="#cite_note-Ric2015-11"><span class="cite-bracket">[</span>1<span class="cite-bracket">]</span></a></sup><sup id="cite_ref-12" class="reference"><a href="#cite_note-12"><span class="cite-bracket">[</span>2<span class="cite-bracket">]</span></a></sup><sup id="cite_ref-13" class="reference"><a href="#cite_note-13"><span class="cite-bracket">[</span>3<span class="cite-bracket">]</span></a></sup></p></blockquote></li></ul></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <style data-mw-deduplicate="TemplateStyles:r1256386598">.mw-parser-output .cot-header-mainspace{background:#F0F2F5;color:inherit}.mw-parser-output .cot-header-other{background:#CCFFCC;color:inherit}@media screen{html.skin-theme-clientpref-night .mw-parser-output .cot-header-mainspace{background:#14181F;color:inherit}html.skin-theme-clientpref-night .mw-parser-output .cot-header-other{background:#003500;color:inherit}}@media screen and (prefers-color-scheme:dark){html.skin-theme-clientpref-os .mw-parser-output .cot-header-mainspace{background:#14181F;color:inherit}html.skin-theme-clientpref-os .mw-parser-output .cot-header-other{background:#003500;color:inherit}}</style> <div style="margin-left:0"> <table class="mw-collapsible mw-archivedtalk mw-collapsed" style="color:inherit; background: transparent; text-align: left; border: 1px solid Silver; margin: 0.2em auto auto; width:100%; clear: both; padding: 1px;"> <tbody><tr> <th class="cot-header-other" style="; font-size:87%; padding:0.2em 0.3em; text-align:center;"><div style="font-size:115%;margin:0 4em">Sources</div> </th></tr> <tr> <td style="color:inherit; border: solid 1px Silver; padding: 0.6em; background: var(--background-color-base, #fff);"> <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1239543626"><div class="reflist"> <div class="mw-references-wrap"><ol class="references"> <li id="cite_note-Ric2015-11"><span class="mw-cite-backlink"><b><a href="#cite_ref-Ric2015_11-0">^</a></b></span> <span class="reference-text"><link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1238218222"><cite id="CITEREFHamilton2015" class="citation book cs1">Hamilton, Richart (2015). <i>Tarascon Pocket Pharmacopoeia 2015 Deluxe Lab-Coat Edition</i>. Jones & Bartlett Learning. p. 54. <a href="/wiki/ISBN_(identifier)" class="mw-redirect" title="ISBN (identifier)">ISBN</a> <a href="/wiki/Special:BookSources/9781284057560" title="Special:BookSources/9781284057560"><bdi>9781284057560</bdi></a>.</cite><span title="ctx_ver=Z39.88-2004&rft_val_fmt=info%3Aofi%2Ffmt%3Akev%3Amtx%3Abook&rft.genre=book&rft.btitle=Tarascon+Pocket+Pharmacopoeia+2015+Deluxe+Lab-Coat+Edition&rft.pages=54&rft.pub=Jones+%26+Bartlett+Learning&rft.date=2015&rft.isbn=9781284057560&rft.aulast=Hamilton&rft.aufirst=Richart&rfr_id=info%3Asid%2Fen.wikipedia.org%3AWikipedia+talk%3AWikiProject+Medicine%2FArchive+136" class="Z3988"></span></span> </li> <li id="cite_note-12"><span class="mw-cite-backlink"><b><a href="#cite_ref-12">^</a></b></span> <span class="reference-text"><link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1238218222"><cite id="CITEREFMullin" class="citation news cs1">Mullin, Emily. <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://www.forbes.com/sites/emilymullin/2015/12/21/turing-pharma-says-daraprim-availability-will-be-unaffected-by-shkreli-arrest/#2c0b2be12e82">"Turing Pharma Says Daraprim Availability Will Be Unaffected By Shkreli Arrest"</a>. <i>Forbes</i>. <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20161110120131/http://www.forbes.com/sites/emilymullin/2015/12/21/turing-pharma-says-daraprim-availability-will-be-unaffected-by-shkreli-arrest/#2c0b2be12e82">Archived</a> from the original on 2016-11-10<span class="reference-accessdate">. Retrieved <span class="nowrap">2016-11-10</span></span>.</cite><span title="ctx_ver=Z39.88-2004&rft_val_fmt=info%3Aofi%2Ffmt%3Akev%3Amtx%3Ajournal&rft.genre=article&rft.jtitle=Forbes&rft.atitle=Turing+Pharma+Says+Daraprim+Availability+Will+Be+Unaffected+By+Shkreli+Arrest&rft.aulast=Mullin&rft.aufirst=Emily&rft_id=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.forbes.com%2Fsites%2Femilymullin%2F2015%2F12%2F21%2Fturing-pharma-says-daraprim-availability-will-be-unaffected-by-shkreli-arrest%2F%232c0b2be12e82&rfr_id=info%3Asid%2Fen.wikipedia.org%3AWikipedia+talk%3AWikiProject+Medicine%2FArchive+136" class="Z3988"></span></span> </li> <li id="cite_note-13"><span class="mw-cite-backlink"><b><a href="#cite_ref-13">^</a></b></span> <span class="reference-text"><link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1238218222"><cite id="CITEREFAlpernSongStauffer2016" class="citation journal cs1">Alpern, JD; Song, J; Stauffer, WM (19 May 2016). "Essential Medicines in the United States--Why Access Is Diminishing". <i>The New England Journal of Medicine</i>. <b>374</b> (20): 1904–7. <a href="/wiki/Doi_(identifier)" class="mw-redirect" title="Doi (identifier)">doi</a>:<a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://doi.org/10.1056%2Fnejmp1601559">10.1056/nejmp1601559</a>. <a href="/wiki/PMID_(identifier)" class="mw-redirect" title="PMID (identifier)">PMID</a> <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/27192669">27192669</a>.</cite><span title="ctx_ver=Z39.88-2004&rft_val_fmt=info%3Aofi%2Ffmt%3Akev%3Amtx%3Ajournal&rft.genre=article&rft.jtitle=The+New+England+Journal+of+Medicine&rft.atitle=Essential+Medicines+in+the+United+States--Why+Access+Is+Diminishing.&rft.volume=374&rft.issue=20&rft.pages=1904-7&rft.date=2016-05-19&rft_id=info%3Adoi%2F10.1056%2Fnejmp1601559&rft_id=info%3Apmid%2F27192669&rft.aulast=Alpern&rft.aufirst=JD&rft.au=Song%2C+J&rft.au=Stauffer%2C+WM&rfr_id=info%3Asid%2Fen.wikipedia.org%3AWikipedia+talk%3AWikiProject+Medicine%2FArchive+136" class="Z3988"></span></span> </li> </ol></div></div> </td></tr></tbody></table></div> <dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd>I don't know what is in the first source (request quote). The second source is a Forbes contributor opinion piece, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:RSP" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:RSP">which are generally considered unreliable for ANY text</a> on Wikipedia. The third source does not verify the content; it mentions the cost of treating one patient at one hospital, as an example, and does not state that $75,000 is generally the cost of treatment. So, even in a case where there may be reason to include price data in the lead, we haven't done it in a policy-compliant way. This is why a systematic approach to checking all of these problems is needed; it appears that there has been too much very hurried editing of price content. <a href="/wiki/User:SandyGeorgia" title="User:SandyGeorgia"><b>Sandy</b><span style="color: green;">Georgia</span></a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:SandyGeorgia" title="User talk:SandyGeorgia">Talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_136#c-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-31T06:04:00.000Z-Doc_James-2020-03-31T05:37:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">06:04, 31 March 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-31T06:04:00.000Z-Doc_James-2020-03-31T05:37:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-31T06:04:00.000Z-Doc_James-2020-03-31T05:37:00.000Z"></span></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-31T06:20:00.000Z-Doc_James-2020-03-31T05:37:00.000Z"></span>And there's another problem <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Pyrimethamine&diff=next&oldid=948229602">with the text you deleted here.</a> As I mentioned above, the source (a company press release) was not <s>reliable</s> compliant with <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:NOT" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:NOT">WP:NOT</a>, but instead of tagging or replacing or removing the citation (the press release), you also removed the entire content, which does seem to be relevant to the pricing problem that happened there. It is not good practice to remove text that can be cited, as in this case, <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://www.cnbc.com/2015/11/30/express-scripts-imprimis-to-offer-daraprim-alternative.html">that text can be cited</a> to CNBC. The edit summary was "trimmed press release" which might better have been "removed text cited to press release", as that would trigger other editors to know that an alternate source might be (in fact, should be) sought. <div class="paragraphbreak" style="margin-top:0.5em"></div> I think a careful examination of the editing in the first five pharmaceutical pricing articles suggests that a much slower approach would be helpful. <a href="/wiki/User:SandyGeorgia" title="User:SandyGeorgia"><b>Sandy</b><span style="color: green;">Georgia</span></a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:SandyGeorgia" title="User talk:SandyGeorgia">Talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_136#c-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-31T06:20:00.000Z-Doc_James-2020-03-31T05:37:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">06:20, 31 March 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-31T06:20:00.000Z-Doc_James-2020-03-31T05:37:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-31T06:20:00.000Z-Doc_James-2020-03-31T05:37:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading3"><h3 id="Trimethoprim/sulfamethoxazole" data-mw-thread-id="h-Trimethoprim/sulfamethoxazole-RFC_on_pharmaceutical_drug_prices_/currently_at_ArbCom-2020-03-31T02:04:00.000Z"><span id="Trimethoprim.2Fsulfamethoxazole"></span><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Trimethoprim/sulfamethoxazole-RFC_on_pharmaceutical_drug_prices_/currently_at_ArbCom-2020-03-31T02:04:00.000Z"></span>Trimethoprim/sulfamethoxazole<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Trimethoprim/sulfamethoxazole-RFC_on_pharmaceutical_drug_prices_/currently_at_ArbCom-2020-03-31T02:04:00.000Z"></span></h3></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-31T02:04:00.000Z-Trimethoprim/sulfamethoxazole"></span>With <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Trimethoprim/sulfamethoxazole&diff=948100708&oldid=943851269">this edit</a> to <a href="/wiki/Trimethoprim/sulfamethoxazole" title="Trimethoprim/sulfamethoxazole">Trimethoprim/sulfamethoxazole</a>, vague text about pricing is left in the lead (unclear to what countries this applies), although IMO the requirements per the RFC and in accordance with policy to include price date in the lead of this article are not met. (<a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:LEAD" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:LEAD">WP:LEAD</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WEIGHT" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:WEIGHT">WP:WEIGHT</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:NOPRICE" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:NOPRICE">WP:NOPRICE</a>). The cost of this drug has not been the subject of significant secondary coverage worthy of mention in the lead. <a href="/wiki/User:SandyGeorgia" title="User:SandyGeorgia"><b>Sandy</b><span style="color: green;">Georgia</span></a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:SandyGeorgia" title="User talk:SandyGeorgia">Talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_136#c-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-31T02:04:00.000Z-Trimethoprim/sulfamethoxazole" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:04, 31 March 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-31T02:04:00.000Z-Trimethoprim/sulfamethoxazole"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-31T02:04:00.000Z-Trimethoprim/sulfamethoxazole"></span> </p><p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-31T02:04:00.000Z-Trimethoprim/sulfamethoxazole-1"></span>Summary: those are the five articles edited so far; this is NOT a systematic or healthy approach to implementing the RFC. <a href="/wiki/User:SandyGeorgia" title="User:SandyGeorgia"><b>Sandy</b><span style="color: green;">Georgia</span></a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:SandyGeorgia" title="User talk:SandyGeorgia">Talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_136#c-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-31T02:04:00.000Z-Trimethoprim/sulfamethoxazole-1" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:04, 31 March 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-31T02:04:00.000Z-Trimethoprim/sulfamethoxazole-1"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-31T02:04:00.000Z-Trimethoprim/sulfamethoxazole-1"></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading3"><h3 id="Notice_of_ArbCom_Request" data-mw-thread-id="h-Notice_of_ArbCom_Request-RFC_on_pharmaceutical_drug_prices_/currently_at_ArbCom-2020-03-31T03:39:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Notice_of_ArbCom_Request-RFC_on_pharmaceutical_drug_prices_/currently_at_ArbCom-2020-03-31T03:39:00.000Z"></span>Notice of ArbCom Request<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Notice_of_ArbCom_Request-RFC_on_pharmaceutical_drug_prices_/currently_at_ArbCom-2020-03-31T03:39:00.000Z"></span></h3></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Barkeep49-2020-03-31T03:39:00.000Z-Notice_of_ArbCom_Request"></span>Given the events of the last day I have filed an <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case#Medical_pricing" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case">ArbCom Case request</a>. <a href="/wiki/User:Barkeep49" title="User:Barkeep49">Barkeep49</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Barkeep49" title="User talk:Barkeep49">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_136#c-Barkeep49-2020-03-31T03:39:00.000Z-Notice_of_ArbCom_Request" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">03:39, 31 March 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Barkeep49-2020-03-31T03:39:00.000Z-Notice_of_ArbCom_Request"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Barkeep49-2020-03-31T03:39:00.000Z-Notice_of_ArbCom_Request"></span> </p><p><br/> </p> <ul><li><mark><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Medicine" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Medicine"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Ozzie10aaaa-2020-05-21T10:34:00.000Z-Barkeep49-2020-03-31T03:39:00.000Z"></span>Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Medicine</a></mark> (reposted /PD not ready till May 25)--<a href="/wiki/User:Ozzie10aaaa" title="User:Ozzie10aaaa">Ozzie10aaaa</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Ozzie10aaaa" title="User talk:Ozzie10aaaa">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_136#c-Ozzie10aaaa-2020-05-21T10:34:00.000Z-Barkeep49-2020-03-31T03:39:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">10:34, 21 May 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Ozzie10aaaa-2020-05-21T10:34:00.000Z-Barkeep49-2020-03-31T03:39:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Ozzie10aaaa-2020-05-21T10:34:00.000Z-Barkeep49-2020-03-31T03:39:00.000Z"></span></li></ul> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading3"><h3 id="Propose_postponement_due_to_COVID-19" data-mw-thread-id="h-Propose_postponement_due_to_COVID-19-RFC_on_pharmaceutical_drug_prices_/currently_at_ArbCom-2020-03-31T13:21:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Propose_postponement_due_to_COVID-19-RFC_on_pharmaceutical_drug_prices_/currently_at_ArbCom-2020-03-31T13:21:00.000Z"></span>Propose postponement due to COVID-19<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Propose_postponement_due_to_COVID-19-RFC_on_pharmaceutical_drug_prices_/currently_at_ArbCom-2020-03-31T13:21:00.000Z"></span></h3></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Bluerasberry-2020-03-31T13:21:00.000Z-Propose_postponement_due_to_COVID-19"></span>I would like to request delay on this topic until further notice due to COVID-19. This issue concerns WikiProject Medicine and the focus of that project right now is COVID-19. The primary outcome of this issue being discussed anywhere will be distraction from developing COVID-19 content. The matter of price is not urgent and has been pending for years. No harm comes from postponement. </p> <ul><li>Archive this discussion</li> <li>Immediately remove any following price discussion</li> <li>Delay taking action regarding prices</li> <li>Edit COVID-19 or anything else peacefully</li></ul> <ol><li><b>Support as proposer</b> <a href="/wiki/User:Bluerasberry" title="User:Bluerasberry"><span style="background:#cedff2;color:#11e"><b> Blue Rasberry </b></span></a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Bluerasberry" title="User talk:Bluerasberry"><span style="background:#cedff2;color:#11e">(talk)</span></a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_136#c-Bluerasberry-2020-03-31T13:21:00.000Z-Propose_postponement_due_to_COVID-19" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">13:21, 31 March 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Bluerasberry-2020-03-31T13:21:00.000Z-Propose_postponement_due_to_COVID-19"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Bluerasberry-2020-03-31T13:21:00.000Z-Propose_postponement_due_to_COVID-19"></span></li> <li><b><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Doc_James-2020-03-31T19:09:00.000Z-Bluerasberry-2020-03-31T13:21:00.000Z"></span>Support</b> Not unreasonable. The issues are much larger than just the pricing ones and we will need to get back to them eventually I imagine. <a href="/wiki/User:Doc_James" title="User:Doc James"><span style="color:#0000f1"><b>Doc James</b></span></a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Doc_James" title="User talk:Doc James">talk</a> · <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Doc_James" title="Special:Contributions/Doc James">contribs</a> · <a href="/wiki/Special:EmailUser/Doc_James" title="Special:EmailUser/Doc James">email</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_136#c-Doc_James-2020-03-31T19:09:00.000Z-Bluerasberry-2020-03-31T13:21:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:09, 31 March 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Doc_James-2020-03-31T19:09:00.000Z-Bluerasberry-2020-03-31T13:21:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Doc_James-2020-03-31T19:09:00.000Z-Bluerasberry-2020-03-31T13:21:00.000Z"></span></li> <li><b><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-DrVogel-2020-03-31T19:49:00.000Z-Bluerasberry-2020-03-31T13:21:00.000Z"></span>Support</b> With all the information and especially the <i>mis</i>information going round, I feel that our coverage of the pandemic is extremely important. <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:DrVogel&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:DrVogel (page does not exist)">Dr. Vogel</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:DrVogel" title="User talk:DrVogel">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_136#c-DrVogel-2020-03-31T19:49:00.000Z-Bluerasberry-2020-03-31T13:21:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:49, 31 March 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-DrVogel-2020-03-31T19:49:00.000Z-Bluerasberry-2020-03-31T13:21:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-DrVogel-2020-03-31T19:49:00.000Z-Bluerasberry-2020-03-31T13:21:00.000Z"></span></li> <li><b><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Cerevisae-2020-04-12T00:17:00.000Z-Bluerasberry-2020-03-31T13:21:00.000Z"></span>Support</b> in view of the current covid-19 condition. BTW, it is useful to add drug prices to the Wikipedia pages. For me, it is one way for clinic doctors assess patients' financial burden when purchasing the branded ones and to write letters of support to the welfare department for financial assistance if the patient cannot afford it. I think it will be useful if the Wikipedia includes information whether the drug patent expires or not and whether it is available in generic forms. Generic drugs are definitely cheaper than branded name drugs.<a href="/wiki/User:Cerevisae" title="User:Cerevisae">Cerevisae</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Cerevisae" title="User talk:Cerevisae">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_136#c-Cerevisae-2020-04-12T00:17:00.000Z-Bluerasberry-2020-03-31T13:21:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:17, 12 April 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Cerevisae-2020-04-12T00:17:00.000Z-Bluerasberry-2020-03-31T13:21:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Cerevisae-2020-04-12T00:17:00.000Z-Bluerasberry-2020-03-31T13:21:00.000Z"></span></li></ol> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-SandyGeorgia-2020-04-13T17:58:00.000Z-Propose_postponement_due_to_COVID-19"></span>Since we discuss, not !vote, I will not add to the tally above, as it is clearly not possible to postpone a discussion that is before the arbs. <a href="/wiki/User:SandyGeorgia" title="User:SandyGeorgia"><b>Sandy</b><span style="color: green;">Georgia</span></a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:SandyGeorgia" title="User talk:SandyGeorgia">Talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_136#c-SandyGeorgia-2020-04-13T17:58:00.000Z-Propose_postponement_due_to_COVID-19" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:58, 13 April 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-SandyGeorgia-2020-04-13T17:58:00.000Z-Propose_postponement_due_to_COVID-19"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-SandyGeorgia-2020-04-13T17:58:00.000Z-Propose_postponement_due_to_COVID-19"></span> </p> <div class="paragraphbreak" style="margin-top:0.5em"></div><p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Serial_Number_54129-2020-04-24T11:53:00.000Z-Propose_postponement_due_to_COVID-19"></span>Agree with SG, although also agree with this proposal in principle: I'm assuming that many—if not most—of the active project participants are probably to a greater or lesser degree on the front line right now, so may have less time for Wikipedia than usual. Take care and good luck everybody. <a href="/wiki/User:Serial_Number_54129" title="User:Serial Number 54129"><span style="color:black"><b>——</b></span></a><a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Serial_Number_54129" title="Special:Contributions/Serial Number 54129"><span style="color:black"><i>SN</i></span></a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Serial_Number_54129" title="User talk:Serial Number 54129"><span style="color:#8B0000">54129</span></a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_136#c-Serial_Number_54129-2020-04-24T11:53:00.000Z-Propose_postponement_due_to_COVID-19" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">11:53, 24 April 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Serial_Number_54129-2020-04-24T11:53:00.000Z-Propose_postponement_due_to_COVID-19"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Serial_Number_54129-2020-04-24T11:53:00.000Z-Propose_postponement_due_to_COVID-19"></span> </p><div class="mw-heading mw-heading3"><h3 id="Next_steps?" data-mw-thread-id="h-Next_steps?-RFC_on_pharmaceutical_drug_prices_/currently_at_ArbCom-2020-04-02T20:37:00.000Z"><span id="Next_steps.3F"></span><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Next_steps?-RFC_on_pharmaceutical_drug_prices_/currently_at_ArbCom-2020-04-02T20:37:00.000Z"></span>Next steps?<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Next_steps?-RFC_on_pharmaceutical_drug_prices_/currently_at_ArbCom-2020-04-02T20:37:00.000Z"></span></h3></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Hipal-2020-04-02T20:37:00.000Z-Next_steps?"></span>I'm hoping that the ArbCom efforts will get the behavioral problems settled out. Meanwhile, I agree that further clarification on the RfC would help. At this point I don't know how many clarification attempts have already happened, nor what outcomes we've had. Tracking them all down and following up seems like good next steps. What do others think? What other steps should we be considering? --<a href="/wiki/User:Hipal" title="User:Hipal">Hipal/Ronz</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Hipal" title="User talk:Hipal">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_136#c-Hipal-2020-04-02T20:37:00.000Z-Next_steps?" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:37, 2 April 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Hipal-2020-04-02T20:37:00.000Z-Next_steps?"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Hipal-2020-04-02T20:37:00.000Z-Next_steps?"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-SandyGeorgia-2020-04-02T20:44:00.000Z-Hipal-2020-04-02T20:37:00.000Z"></span>I always advocated for a methodical approach, and was disappointed that editing went forward without having a plan in place, but seeing how much effort was needed at <a href="/wiki/Talk:Pyrimethamine" title="Talk:Pyrimethamine">Talk:Pyrimethamine</a> (not even done yet), I even more strongly suggest that we should at least keep a list for now of what articles have been addressed, or edited without being addressed. We at least need to keep track of where we are. <a href="/wiki/User:SandyGeorgia" title="User:SandyGeorgia"><b>Sandy</b><span style="color: green;">Georgia</span></a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:SandyGeorgia" title="User talk:SandyGeorgia">Talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_136#c-SandyGeorgia-2020-04-02T20:44:00.000Z-Hipal-2020-04-02T20:37:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:44, 2 April 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-SandyGeorgia-2020-04-02T20:44:00.000Z-Hipal-2020-04-02T20:37:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-SandyGeorgia-2020-04-02T20:44:00.000Z-Hipal-2020-04-02T20:37:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Hipal-2020-05-10T16:53:00.000Z-SandyGeorgia-2020-04-02T20:44:00.000Z"></span>While I started a cursory discussion at WP:NOT (<a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:What_Wikipedia_is_not/Archive_57#Clarification_requested_for_product_pricing_(Sales_catalogues)" title="Wikipedia talk:What Wikipedia is not/Archive 57">Wikipedia_talk:What_Wikipedia_is_not/Archive_57#Clarification_requested_for_product_pricing_(Sales_catalogues)</a>), a follow-up at NPOVN makes sense to make sure we've clear consensus for addressing the 500+ articles. --<a href="/wiki/User:Hipal" title="User:Hipal">Hipal/Ronz</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Hipal" title="User talk:Hipal">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_136#c-Hipal-2020-05-10T16:53:00.000Z-SandyGeorgia-2020-04-02T20:44:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:53, 10 May 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Hipal-2020-05-10T16:53:00.000Z-SandyGeorgia-2020-04-02T20:44:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Hipal-2020-05-10T16:53:00.000Z-SandyGeorgia-2020-04-02T20:44:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading3"><h3 id="Areas_where_clarification_and_further_discussion_may_be_needed" data-mw-thread-id="h-Areas_where_clarification_and_further_discussion_may_be_needed-RFC_on_pharmaceutical_drug_prices_/currently_at_ArbCom-2020-04-06T16:21:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Areas_where_clarification_and_further_discussion_may_be_needed-RFC_on_pharmaceutical_drug_prices_/currently_at_ArbCom-2020-04-06T16:21:00.000Z"></span>Areas where clarification and further discussion may be needed<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Areas_where_clarification_and_further_discussion_may_be_needed-RFC_on_pharmaceutical_drug_prices_/currently_at_ArbCom-2020-04-06T16:21:00.000Z"></span></h3></div> <ul><li><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Hipal-2020-04-06T16:21:00.000Z-Areas_where_clarification_and_further_discussion_may_be_needed"></span>Guidelines for content in the lede <dl><dd>In my experience, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:MOSLEAD" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:MOSLEAD">WP:MOSLEAD</a> could give more guidance, so that may be part of the problem. Perhaps we just emphasize and elaborate on <a href="/wiki/MOS:LEADNO" class="mw-redirect" title="MOS:LEADNO">MOS:LEADNO</a>? --<a href="/wiki/User:Hipal" title="User:Hipal">Hipal/Ronz</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Hipal" title="User talk:Hipal">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_136#c-Hipal-2020-04-06T16:21:00.000Z-Areas_where_clarification_and_further_discussion_may_be_needed" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:21, 6 April 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Hipal-2020-04-06T16:21:00.000Z-Areas_where_clarification_and_further_discussion_may_be_needed"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Hipal-2020-04-06T16:21:00.000Z-Areas_where_clarification_and_further_discussion_may_be_needed"></span></dd></dl></li> <li><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Hipal-2020-04-06T16:21:00.000Z-Areas_where_clarification_and_further_discussion_may_be_needed-1"></span>Numerical vs non-numerical pricing <dl><dd>While some editors may have worked on this assumption, I don't recall anyone ever make it explicit. I'd be surprised if any arguments at all apply only to numerical prices. --<a href="/wiki/User:Hipal" title="User:Hipal">Hipal/Ronz</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Hipal" title="User talk:Hipal">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_136#c-Hipal-2020-04-06T16:21:00.000Z-Areas_where_clarification_and_further_discussion_may_be_needed-1" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:21, 6 April 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Hipal-2020-04-06T16:21:00.000Z-Areas_where_clarification_and_further_discussion_may_be_needed-1"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Hipal-2020-04-06T16:21:00.000Z-Areas_where_clarification_and_further_discussion_may_be_needed-1"></span></dd></dl></li></ul> <p><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Manual_of_Style/Medicine-related_articles/RFC_on_pharmaceutical_drug_prices#Post_RFC_Addenda" title="Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style/Medicine-related articles/RFC on pharmaceutical drug prices"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Hipal-2020-04-13T17:42:00.000Z-Areas_where_clarification_and_further_discussion_may_be_needed"></span>Wikipedia_talk:Manual_of_Style/Medicine-related_articles/RFC_on_pharmaceutical_drug_prices#Post_RFC_Addenda</a> lists concerns and clarifying remarks. --<a href="/wiki/User:Hipal" title="User:Hipal">Hipal/Ronz</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Hipal" title="User talk:Hipal">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_136#c-Hipal-2020-04-13T17:42:00.000Z-Areas_where_clarification_and_further_discussion_may_be_needed" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:42, 13 April 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Hipal-2020-04-13T17:42:00.000Z-Areas_where_clarification_and_further_discussion_may_be_needed"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Hipal-2020-04-13T17:42:00.000Z-Areas_where_clarification_and_further_discussion_may_be_needed"></span> </p> <ul><li><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Hipal-2020-05-03T02:52:00.000Z-Hipal-2020-04-13T17:42:00.000Z"></span>Should we attempt to have <b>recent</b> prices in every medicine article, or in every essential medicine article? --<a href="/wiki/User:Hipal" title="User:Hipal">Hipal/Ronz</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Hipal" title="User talk:Hipal">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_136#c-Hipal-2020-05-03T02:52:00.000Z-Hipal-2020-04-13T17:42:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:52, 3 May 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Hipal-2020-05-03T02:52:00.000Z-Hipal-2020-04-13T17:42:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Hipal-2020-05-03T02:52:00.000Z-Hipal-2020-04-13T17:42:00.000Z"></span></li></ul> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading3"><h3 id="Scope_of_problem" data-mw-thread-id="h-Scope_of_problem-RFC_on_pharmaceutical_drug_prices_/currently_at_ArbCom-2020-04-17T20:44:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Scope_of_problem-RFC_on_pharmaceutical_drug_prices_/currently_at_ArbCom-2020-04-17T20:44:00.000Z"></span>Scope of problem<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Scope_of_problem-RFC_on_pharmaceutical_drug_prices_/currently_at_ArbCom-2020-04-17T20:44:00.000Z"></span></h3></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Hipal-2020-04-17T20:44:00.000Z-Scope_of_problem"></span>I believe Colin did some work trying to get an idea of the scope of the problem (addition to the lead of price information)... I'll try to dig up some info. --<a href="/wiki/User:Hipal" title="User:Hipal">Hipal/Ronz</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Hipal" title="User talk:Hipal">talk</a>) 20:44, 17 April 2020 (UTC) Trying to put together a list of commonly used references: --<a href="/wiki/User:Hipal" title="User:Hipal">Hipal/Ronz</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Hipal" title="User talk:Hipal">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_136#c-Hipal-2020-04-17T20:44:00.000Z-Scope_of_problem" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:37, 20 April 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Hipal-2020-04-17T20:44:00.000Z-Scope_of_problem"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Hipal-2020-04-17T20:44:00.000Z-Scope_of_problem"></span> </p> <ul><li><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Hipal-2020-04-29T16:48:00.000Z-Hipal-2020-04-17T20:44:00.000Z"></span>British national formulary <dl><dd>498 uses as of 4/29 --<a href="/wiki/User:Hipal" title="User:Hipal">Hipal/Ronz</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Hipal" title="User talk:Hipal">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_136#c-Hipal-2020-04-29T16:48:00.000Z-Hipal-2020-04-17T20:44:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:48, 29 April 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Hipal-2020-04-29T16:48:00.000Z-Hipal-2020-04-17T20:44:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Hipal-2020-04-29T16:48:00.000Z-Hipal-2020-04-17T20:44:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></li> <li><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Hipal-2020-04-29T16:48:00.000Z-Hipal-2020-04-17T20:44:00.000Z-1"></span>drugs.com <dl><dd>4,118 uses as of 4/29. This appears to be used too much for other content to help us track the scope --<a href="/wiki/User:Hipal" title="User:Hipal">Hipal/Ronz</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Hipal" title="User talk:Hipal">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_136#c-Hipal-2020-04-29T16:48:00.000Z-Hipal-2020-04-17T20:44:00.000Z-1" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:48, 29 April 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Hipal-2020-04-29T16:48:00.000Z-Hipal-2020-04-17T20:44:00.000Z-1"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Hipal-2020-04-29T16:48:00.000Z-Hipal-2020-04-17T20:44:00.000Z-1"></span></dd></dl></li> <li><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Hipal-2020-04-29T16:48:00.000Z-Hipal-2020-04-17T20:44:00.000Z-2"></span>mshpriceguide.org <dl><dd>313 uses as of 4/29 --<a href="/wiki/User:Hipal" title="User:Hipal">Hipal/Ronz</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Hipal" title="User talk:Hipal">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_136#c-Hipal-2020-04-29T16:48:00.000Z-Hipal-2020-04-17T20:44:00.000Z-2" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:48, 29 April 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Hipal-2020-04-29T16:48:00.000Z-Hipal-2020-04-17T20:44:00.000Z-2"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Hipal-2020-04-29T16:48:00.000Z-Hipal-2020-04-17T20:44:00.000Z-2"></span></dd></dl></li> <li><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Hipal-2020-04-29T16:48:00.000Z-Hipal-2020-04-17T20:44:00.000Z-3"></span>Tarascon Pocket Pharmacopoeia 2015 Deluxe Lab-Coat Edition <dl><dd>202 uses as of 4/29 --<a href="/wiki/User:Hipal" title="User:Hipal">Hipal/Ronz</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Hipal" title="User talk:Hipal">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_136#c-Hipal-2020-04-29T16:48:00.000Z-Hipal-2020-04-17T20:44:00.000Z-3" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:48, 29 April 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Hipal-2020-04-29T16:48:00.000Z-Hipal-2020-04-17T20:44:00.000Z-3"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Hipal-2020-04-29T16:48:00.000Z-Hipal-2020-04-17T20:44:00.000Z-3"></span></dd></dl></li> <li><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Hipal-2020-04-29T16:48:00.000Z-Hipal-2020-04-17T20:44:00.000Z-4"></span>Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services <dl><dd>677 uses as of 4/29. This appears to be used too much for other content and in other contexts to help us track the scope --<a href="/wiki/User:Hipal" title="User:Hipal">Hipal/Ronz</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Hipal" title="User talk:Hipal">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_136#c-Hipal-2020-04-29T16:48:00.000Z-Hipal-2020-04-17T20:44:00.000Z-4" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:48, 29 April 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Hipal-2020-04-29T16:48:00.000Z-Hipal-2020-04-17T20:44:00.000Z-4"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Hipal-2020-04-29T16:48:00.000Z-Hipal-2020-04-17T20:44:00.000Z-4"></span></dd></dl></li></ul> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Hipal-2020-04-23T19:24:00.000Z-Scope_of_problem"></span>From a sampling of <a href="/wiki/Category:World_Health_Organization_essential_medicines" title="Category:World Health Organization essential medicines">Category:World Health Organization essential medicines</a>, I believe Doc James added pricing information to all the medicine articles listed there. --<a href="/wiki/User:Hipal" title="User:Hipal">Hipal/Ronz</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Hipal" title="User talk:Hipal">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_136#c-Hipal-2020-04-23T19:24:00.000Z-Scope_of_problem" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:24, 23 April 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Hipal-2020-04-23T19:24:00.000Z-Scope_of_problem"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Hipal-2020-04-23T19:24:00.000Z-Scope_of_problem"></span> </p><p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Hipal-2020-05-03T02:47:00.000Z-Scope_of_problem"></span>I'm estimating somewhere between 550 and 600 articles, given what <a href="/wiki/User:Colin/ExistingPrices" title="User:Colin/ExistingPrices">Colin</a> and <a href="/wiki/User:Hipal/scope" title="User:Hipal/scope">I</a> have found. --<a href="/wiki/User:Hipal" title="User:Hipal">Hipal/Ronz</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Hipal" title="User talk:Hipal">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_136#c-Hipal-2020-05-03T02:47:00.000Z-Scope_of_problem" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:47, 3 May 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Hipal-2020-05-03T02:47:00.000Z-Scope_of_problem"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Hipal-2020-05-03T02:47:00.000Z-Scope_of_problem"></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading3"><h3 id="Recent_additions/expansions_of_pricing_information" data-mw-thread-id="h-Recent_additions/expansions_of_pricing_information-RFC_on_pharmaceutical_drug_prices_/currently_at_ArbCom-2020-04-20T20:04:00.000Z"><span id="Recent_additions.2Fexpansions_of_pricing_information"></span><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Recent_additions/expansions_of_pricing_information-RFC_on_pharmaceutical_drug_prices_/currently_at_ArbCom-2020-04-20T20:04:00.000Z"></span>Recent additions/expansions of pricing information<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Recent_additions/expansions_of_pricing_information-RFC_on_pharmaceutical_drug_prices_/currently_at_ArbCom-2020-04-20T20:04:00.000Z"></span></h3></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Hipal-2020-04-20T20:04:00.000Z-Recent_additions/expansions_of_pricing_information"></span>I ran across these while looking at the scope of the problem. --<a href="/wiki/User:Hipal" title="User:Hipal">Hipal/Ronz</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Hipal" title="User talk:Hipal">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_136#c-Hipal-2020-04-20T20:04:00.000Z-Recent_additions/expansions_of_pricing_information" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:04, 20 April 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Hipal-2020-04-20T20:04:00.000Z-Recent_additions/expansions_of_pricing_information"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Hipal-2020-04-20T20:04:00.000Z-Recent_additions/expansions_of_pricing_information"></span> </p> <ul><li><span id="Sulfasalazine"></span><span class="plainlinks nourlexpansion lx"><a href="/wiki/Sulfasalazine" title="Sulfasalazine">Sulfasalazine</a> (<a href="/wiki/Special:EditPage/Sulfasalazine" title="Special:EditPage/Sulfasalazine">edit</a> | <a href="/wiki/Talk:Sulfasalazine" title="Talk:Sulfasalazine">talk</a> | <a href="/wiki/Special:PageHistory/Sulfasalazine" title="Special:PageHistory/Sulfasalazine">history</a><span class="sysop-show"> | <a href="/wiki/Special:ProtectPage/Sulfasalazine" title="Special:ProtectPage/Sulfasalazine">protect</a> | <a href="/wiki/Special:DeletePage/Sulfasalazine" title="Special:DeletePage/Sulfasalazine">delete</a></span> | <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:WhatLinksHere/Sulfasalazine&limit=999">links</a> | <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Sulfasalazine&action=watch">watch</a> | <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Log&page=Sulfasalazine">logs</a> | <a class="external text" href="https://tools.wmflabs.org/pageviews?pages=Sulfasalazine&project=en.wikipedia.org">views</a>)</span> <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Sulfasalazine&type=revision&diff=950761990&oldid=950682894">April 13</a></li> <li><span id="Methocarbamol"></span><span class="plainlinks nourlexpansion lx"><a href="/wiki/Methocarbamol" title="Methocarbamol">Methocarbamol</a> (<a href="/wiki/Special:EditPage/Methocarbamol" title="Special:EditPage/Methocarbamol">edit</a> | <a href="/wiki/Talk:Methocarbamol" title="Talk:Methocarbamol">talk</a> | <a href="/wiki/Special:PageHistory/Methocarbamol" title="Special:PageHistory/Methocarbamol">history</a><span class="sysop-show"> | <a href="/wiki/Special:ProtectPage/Methocarbamol" title="Special:ProtectPage/Methocarbamol">protect</a> | <a href="/wiki/Special:DeletePage/Methocarbamol" title="Special:DeletePage/Methocarbamol">delete</a></span> | <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:WhatLinksHere/Methocarbamol&limit=999">links</a> | <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Methocarbamol&action=watch">watch</a> | <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Log&page=Methocarbamol">logs</a> | <a class="external text" href="https://tools.wmflabs.org/pageviews?pages=Methocarbamol&project=en.wikipedia.org">views</a>)</span> - April - <a href="/wiki/Talk:Methocarbamol#Marketing_-_cost" title="Talk:Methocarbamol">Talk:Methocarbamol#Marketing_-_cost</a></li> <li><span id="Febuxostat"></span><span class="plainlinks nourlexpansion lx"><a href="/wiki/Febuxostat" title="Febuxostat">Febuxostat</a> (<a href="/wiki/Special:EditPage/Febuxostat" title="Special:EditPage/Febuxostat">edit</a> | <a href="/wiki/Talk:Febuxostat" title="Talk:Febuxostat">talk</a> | <a href="/wiki/Special:PageHistory/Febuxostat" title="Special:PageHistory/Febuxostat">history</a><span class="sysop-show"> | <a href="/wiki/Special:ProtectPage/Febuxostat" title="Special:ProtectPage/Febuxostat">protect</a> | <a href="/wiki/Special:DeletePage/Febuxostat" title="Special:DeletePage/Febuxostat">delete</a></span> | <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:WhatLinksHere/Febuxostat&limit=999">links</a> | <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Febuxostat&action=watch">watch</a> | <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Log&page=Febuxostat">logs</a> | <a class="external text" href="https://tools.wmflabs.org/pageviews?pages=Febuxostat&project=en.wikipedia.org">views</a>)</span> <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Febuxostat&type=revision&diff=951134963&oldid=951134467">April 15 </a></li> <li><span id="Salbutamol"></span><span class="plainlinks nourlexpansion lx"><a href="/wiki/Salbutamol" title="Salbutamol">Salbutamol</a> (<a href="/wiki/Special:EditPage/Salbutamol" title="Special:EditPage/Salbutamol">edit</a> | <a href="/wiki/Talk:Salbutamol" title="Talk:Salbutamol">talk</a> | <a href="/wiki/Special:PageHistory/Salbutamol" title="Special:PageHistory/Salbutamol">history</a><span class="sysop-show"> | <a href="/wiki/Special:ProtectPage/Salbutamol" title="Special:ProtectPage/Salbutamol">protect</a> | <a href="/wiki/Special:DeletePage/Salbutamol" title="Special:DeletePage/Salbutamol">delete</a></span> | <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:WhatLinksHere/Salbutamol&limit=999">links</a> | <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Salbutamol&action=watch">watch</a> | <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Log&page=Salbutamol">logs</a> | <a class="external text" href="https://tools.wmflabs.org/pageviews?pages=Salbutamol&project=en.wikipedia.org">views</a>)</span> <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Salbutamol&type=revision&diff=950428118&oldid=950379673">April 12</a></li></ul> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="List_of_plants_used_in_herbalism" data-mw-thread-id="h-List_of_plants_used_in_herbalism-2020-05-22T09:43:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-List_of_plants_used_in_herbalism-2020-05-22T09:43:00.000Z"></span><a href="/wiki/List_of_plants_used_in_herbalism" title="List of plants used in herbalism">List of plants used in herbalism</a><span data-mw-comment-end="h-List_of_plants_used_in_herbalism-2020-05-22T09:43:00.000Z"></span></h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Doug_Weller-2020-05-22T09:43:00.000Z-List_of_plants_used_in_herbalism"></span>I'm not sure where MEDRS comes into this, but I was concerned to find this edit.<a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=List_of_plants_used_in_herbalism&diff=prev&oldid=957906308">[26]</a> Or am I worrying to much? <a href="/wiki/User:Doug_Weller" title="User:Doug Weller"><span style="color:#070">Doug Weller</span></a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Doug_Weller" title="User talk:Doug Weller">talk</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_136#c-Doug_Weller-2020-05-22T09:43:00.000Z-List_of_plants_used_in_herbalism" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">09:43, 22 May 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Doug_Weller-2020-05-22T09:43:00.000Z-List_of_plants_used_in_herbalism"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Doug_Weller-2020-05-22T09:43:00.000Z-List_of_plants_used_in_herbalism"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Alexbrn-2020-05-22T14:54:00.000Z-Doug_Weller-2020-05-22T09:43:00.000Z"></span>The "used" formulation covers a multitude of sins throughout that article. We learn for example than cannabis has been "used worldwide since ancient times as treatment for" conditions such as "ADHD, autism and cancer"!! It would be better to use wording like "was thought to be useful for ..." or "was a folklore remedy for ...". Relatedly I wish we had something in MEDRS/MEDMOS saying "treat" and "treatment" are words to watch, since their secondary connotation of "cure" give them untoward colour in cases such as these. <a href="/wiki/User:Alexbrn" class="mw-redirect" title="User:Alexbrn">Alexbrn</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Alexbrn" class="mw-redirect" title="User talk:Alexbrn">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_136#c-Alexbrn-2020-05-22T14:54:00.000Z-Doug_Weller-2020-05-22T09:43:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">14:54, 22 May 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Alexbrn-2020-05-22T14:54:00.000Z-Doug_Weller-2020-05-22T09:43:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Alexbrn-2020-05-22T14:54:00.000Z-Doug_Weller-2020-05-22T09:43:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-RexxS-2020-05-22T16:10:00.000Z-Alexbrn-2020-05-22T14:54:00.000Z"></span>The edit was completely unsourced and <a href="/wiki/User:Johnbod" title="User:Johnbod">Johnbod</a> removed it. The article's sourcing is dire and the choice of sources is completely uncritical. Many of them wouldn't pass <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:RS" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:RS">WP:RS</a>, let alone <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:MEDRS" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:MEDRS">WP:MEDRS</a>. Not only that, but the information taken from the sources is cherry-picked to avoid the more ludicrous claims, and any sources indicating toxicity or other side-effects are carefully ignored. I took a closer look at just one entry at random, <i><a href="/wiki/Ageratina_altissima" title="Ageratina altissima">Ageratina altissima</a></i>, and thought I'd add one more sourced ludicrous claim to the other nonsense in there, as well as noting its well documented toxicity. The problem is that life's too short to research all 150+ plants in the article. --<a href="/wiki/User:RexxS" title="User:RexxS">RexxS</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:RexxS" title="User talk:RexxS">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_136#c-RexxS-2020-05-22T16:10:00.000Z-Alexbrn-2020-05-22T14:54:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:10, 22 May 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-RexxS-2020-05-22T16:10:00.000Z-Alexbrn-2020-05-22T14:54:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-RexxS-2020-05-22T16:10:00.000Z-Alexbrn-2020-05-22T14:54:00.000Z"></span></dd> <dd><small><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-WhatamIdoing-2020-05-22T16:18:00.000Z-Alexbrn-2020-05-22T14:54:00.000Z"></span>(<a href="/wiki/Help:Edit_conflict" title="Help:Edit conflict">edit conflict</a>)</small>I like your "folk remedy" language.</dd> <dd>That sentence is otherwise a touting disaster. You can't have a proper folk remedy for a condition that was described (only) in the modern era, so ADHD and autism would have to be removed from any such a claim, even if it really was used worldwide in ancient times, which I very seriously doubt. <a href="/wiki/User:WhatamIdoing" title="User:WhatamIdoing">WhatamIdoing</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:WhatamIdoing" title="User talk:WhatamIdoing">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_136#c-WhatamIdoing-2020-05-22T16:18:00.000Z-Alexbrn-2020-05-22T14:54:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:18, 22 May 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-WhatamIdoing-2020-05-22T16:18:00.000Z-Alexbrn-2020-05-22T14:54:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-WhatamIdoing-2020-05-22T16:18:00.000Z-Alexbrn-2020-05-22T14:54:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Nascent_iodine_(dietary_supplement)#Criticism" data-mw-thread-id="h-Nascent_iodine_(dietary_supplement)#Criticism-2020-05-22T13:50:00.000Z"><span id="Nascent_iodine_.28dietary_supplement.29.23Criticism"></span><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Nascent_iodine_(dietary_supplement)#Criticism-2020-05-22T13:50:00.000Z"></span><a href="/wiki/Nascent_iodine_(dietary_supplement)#Criticism" title="Nascent iodine (dietary supplement)">Nascent_iodine_(dietary_supplement)#Criticism</a><span data-mw-comment-end="h-Nascent_iodine_(dietary_supplement)#Criticism-2020-05-22T13:50:00.000Z"></span></h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Headbomb-2020-05-22T13:50:00.000Z-Nascent_iodine_(dietary_supplement)#Criticism"></span>There's a large section devoted to a quote from the <i><a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="http://www.orthomolecular.org/resources/omns/index.shtml">Orthomolecular Medicine News Service</a></i>. This can't possibly be a <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:MEDRS" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:MEDRS">WP:MEDRS</a>, right? <span style="font-variant:small-caps; whitespace:nowrap;"><a href="/wiki/User:Headbomb" title="User:Headbomb">Headbomb</a> {<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Headbomb" title="User talk:Headbomb">t</a> · <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Headbomb" title="Special:Contributions/Headbomb">c</a> · <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:PHYS" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:PHYS">p</a> · <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WBOOKS" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:WBOOKS">b</a>}</span> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_136#c-Headbomb-2020-05-22T13:50:00.000Z-Nascent_iodine_(dietary_supplement)#Criticism" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">13:50, 22 May 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Headbomb-2020-05-22T13:50:00.000Z-Nascent_iodine_(dietary_supplement)#Criticism"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Headbomb-2020-05-22T13:50:00.000Z-Nascent_iodine_(dietary_supplement)#Criticism"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-WhatamIdoing-2020-05-22T16:37:00.000Z-Headbomb-2020-05-22T13:50:00.000Z"></span>Do you hesitate to remove it because the unreliable source says that this snake oil is, indeed, snake oil? <a href="/wiki/User:WhatamIdoing" title="User:WhatamIdoing">WhatamIdoing</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:WhatamIdoing" title="User talk:WhatamIdoing">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_136#c-WhatamIdoing-2020-05-22T16:37:00.000Z-Headbomb-2020-05-22T13:50:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:37, 22 May 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-WhatamIdoing-2020-05-22T16:37:00.000Z-Headbomb-2020-05-22T13:50:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-WhatamIdoing-2020-05-22T16:37:00.000Z-Headbomb-2020-05-22T13:50:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Headbomb-2020-05-22T16:49:00.000Z-WhatamIdoing-2020-05-22T16:37:00.000Z"></span>No, I just want a sanity check here, that I'm not missing something before adding that to <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:UPSD" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:UPSD">WP:UPSD</a>. <a href="/wiki/Edgar_Cayce" title="Edgar Cayce">Edgar Cayce</a> and <a href="/wiki/Association_for_Research_and_Enlightenment" title="Association for Research and Enlightenment">Association for Research and Enlightenment</a> could equality get additional eyes too. <span style="font-variant:small-caps; whitespace:nowrap;"><a href="/wiki/User:Headbomb" title="User:Headbomb">Headbomb</a> {<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Headbomb" title="User talk:Headbomb">t</a> · <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Headbomb" title="Special:Contributions/Headbomb">c</a> · <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:PHYS" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:PHYS">p</a> · <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WBOOKS" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:WBOOKS">b</a>}</span> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_136#c-Headbomb-2020-05-22T16:49:00.000Z-WhatamIdoing-2020-05-22T16:37:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:49, 22 May 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Headbomb-2020-05-22T16:49:00.000Z-WhatamIdoing-2020-05-22T16:37:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Headbomb-2020-05-22T16:49:00.000Z-WhatamIdoing-2020-05-22T16:37:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-WhatamIdoing-2020-05-22T18:55:00.000Z-Headbomb-2020-05-22T16:49:00.000Z"></span>The <i><a href="/wiki/Journal_of_Orthomolecular_Medicine" title="Journal of Orthomolecular Medicine">Journal of Orthomolecular Medicine</a></i> is a distinctly <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://www.scopus.com/sourceid/50099">low-quality journal</a> by all the usual metrics. This "news service" is even less reliable. <a href="/wiki/User:WhatamIdoing" title="User:WhatamIdoing">WhatamIdoing</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:WhatamIdoing" title="User talk:WhatamIdoing">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_136#c-WhatamIdoing-2020-05-22T18:55:00.000Z-Headbomb-2020-05-22T16:49:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:55, 22 May 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-WhatamIdoing-2020-05-22T18:55:00.000Z-Headbomb-2020-05-22T16:49:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-WhatamIdoing-2020-05-22T18:55:00.000Z-Headbomb-2020-05-22T16:49:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Johann_Lahodny" data-mw-thread-id="h-Johann_Lahodny-2020-05-23T15:52:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Johann_Lahodny-2020-05-23T15:52:00.000Z"></span><a href="/wiki/Johann_Lahodny" class="mw-redirect" title="Johann Lahodny">Johann Lahodny</a><span data-mw-comment-end="h-Johann_Lahodny-2020-05-23T15:52:00.000Z"></span></h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Headbomb-2020-05-23T15:52:00.000Z-Johann_Lahodny"></span>Language is completely uncritical for a promoter of <a href="/wiki/Ozone_therapy" title="Ozone therapy">ozone therapy</a>, needs expert attention beyond what my non-expert eyes can contribute. <span style="font-variant:small-caps; whitespace:nowrap;"><a href="/wiki/User:Headbomb" title="User:Headbomb">Headbomb</a> {<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Headbomb" title="User talk:Headbomb">t</a> · <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Headbomb" title="Special:Contributions/Headbomb">c</a> · <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:PHYS" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:PHYS">p</a> · <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WBOOKS" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:WBOOKS">b</a>}</span> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_136#c-Headbomb-2020-05-23T15:52:00.000Z-Johann_Lahodny" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:52, 23 May 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Headbomb-2020-05-23T15:52:00.000Z-Johann_Lahodny"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Headbomb-2020-05-23T15:52:00.000Z-Johann_Lahodny"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Alexbrn-2020-05-23T16:17:00.000Z-Headbomb-2020-05-23T15:52:00.000Z"></span>I've boldly blanked & redirected to Ozone therapy as the sourcing for Lahodny as a person appeared suitable in relation to Ozone therapy only. Perhaps per <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:NOPAGE" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:NOPAGE">WP:NOPAGE</a> he might be worth a mention there where the context would help with <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:NPOV" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:NPOV">WP:NPOV</a> (Add: and even there I'm drawing a blank for RS - might need to AfD this). <a href="/wiki/User:Alexbrn" class="mw-redirect" title="User:Alexbrn">Alexbrn</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Alexbrn" class="mw-redirect" title="User talk:Alexbrn">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_136#c-Alexbrn-2020-05-23T16:17:00.000Z-Headbomb-2020-05-23T15:52:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:17, 23 May 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Alexbrn-2020-05-23T16:17:00.000Z-Headbomb-2020-05-23T15:52:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Alexbrn-2020-05-23T16:17:00.000Z-Headbomb-2020-05-23T15:52:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Patricia_Stallings" data-mw-thread-id="h-Patricia_Stallings-2020-05-14T21:11:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Patricia_Stallings-2020-05-14T21:11:00.000Z"></span>Patricia Stallings<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Patricia_Stallings-2020-05-14T21:11:00.000Z"></span></h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Viriditas-2020-05-14T21:11:00.000Z-Patricia_Stallings"></span>Hello. I have several questions about the fascinating piece of forensic and medical history behind <a href="/wiki/Patricia_Stallings" title="Patricia Stallings">Patricia Stallings</a>, “cited as an extreme case of a metabolic disorder that mimics a criminal act.” </p><p>In your expert opinion, was this a failure of medicine, forensics, or some combination of the above? Or could this simply be explained by the primitive nature of the overall, initial investigation given the science of the time? Could anything have been done differently, and are there similar case files for medical disorders that are misinterpreted as criminal acts? </p><p>Which brings me to my last question: if there is a body of articles or an appropriate category for such a topic, what would it be called? In other words, I would like to read about other articles like this one, but there is no good medical category for it, or at least, it is not currently categorized. Thank you. <a href="/wiki/User:Viriditas" title="User:Viriditas">Viriditas</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Viriditas" title="User talk:Viriditas">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_136#c-Viriditas-2020-05-14T21:11:00.000Z-Patricia_Stallings" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:11, 14 May 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Viriditas-2020-05-14T21:11:00.000Z-Patricia_Stallings"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Viriditas-2020-05-14T21:11:00.000Z-Patricia_Stallings"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Klbrain-2020-05-15T20:07:00.000Z-Viriditas-2020-05-14T21:11:00.000Z"></span>I'll tackle the simpler (last) question: a good place to start would be <a href="/wiki/Metabolic_disorder" title="Metabolic disorder">Metabolic disorders</a>, which is a top-level page for a set of similar rare diseases; there is also a set of <a href="/wiki/Lysosomal_storage_disease" title="Lysosomal storage disease">Lysosomal storage diseases</a> which might be of interest. <a href="/wiki/User:Klbrain" title="User:Klbrain">Klbrain</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Klbrain" title="User talk:Klbrain">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_136#c-Klbrain-2020-05-15T20:07:00.000Z-Viriditas-2020-05-14T21:11:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:07, 15 May 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Klbrain-2020-05-15T20:07:00.000Z-Viriditas-2020-05-14T21:11:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Klbrain-2020-05-15T20:07:00.000Z-Viriditas-2020-05-14T21:11:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Viriditas-2020-05-15T21:59:00.000Z-Klbrain-2020-05-15T20:07:00.000Z"></span>Thank you, Ill take a look. <a href="/wiki/User:Viriditas" title="User:Viriditas">Viriditas</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Viriditas" title="User talk:Viriditas">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_136#c-Viriditas-2020-05-15T21:59:00.000Z-Klbrain-2020-05-15T20:07:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:59, 15 May 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Viriditas-2020-05-15T21:59:00.000Z-Klbrain-2020-05-15T20:07:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Viriditas-2020-05-15T21:59:00.000Z-Klbrain-2020-05-15T20:07:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><a href="/wiki/User:Viriditas" title="User:Viriditas"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-WhatamIdoing-2020-05-16T17:30:00.000Z-Viriditas-2020-05-15T21:59:00.000Z"></span>Viriditas</a>, <a href="/wiki/Auto-brewery_syndrome" title="Auto-brewery syndrome">Auto-brewery syndrome</a> has some potential for criminal charges, though not for anything as dramatic. (People with this get arrested for drunk driving, not for murder.) Off wiki, <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/the-child-abuse-contrarian">this article in <i>The New Yorker</i></a> talks about the difficulty of differentiating between physical abuse and rare diseases such as <a href="/wiki/Osteogenesis_imperfecta" title="Osteogenesis imperfecta">Osteogenesis imperfecta</a>, and <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://coloradosun.com/2020/02/10/wrongly-accused-child-abuse/">this article in <i>The Colorado Sun</i></a> talks about fragile bones as a drug side effect in babies. <a href="/wiki/User:WhatamIdoing" title="User:WhatamIdoing">WhatamIdoing</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:WhatamIdoing" title="User talk:WhatamIdoing">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_136#c-WhatamIdoing-2020-05-16T17:30:00.000Z-Viriditas-2020-05-15T21:59:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:30, 16 May 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-WhatamIdoing-2020-05-16T17:30:00.000Z-Viriditas-2020-05-15T21:59:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-WhatamIdoing-2020-05-16T17:30:00.000Z-Viriditas-2020-05-15T21:59:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Viriditas-2020-05-20T20:29:00.000Z-WhatamIdoing-2020-05-16T17:30:00.000Z"></span>Thank you. I’m still having difficulty coming up with a name for a category. I’m thinking it would describe a broad set of medical conditions that could lead to someone either being accused of a crime or committing one, based on an organic condition. Example: <a href="/wiki/Capgras_delusion" title="Capgras delusion">Capgras delusion</a>, a delusional misidentification syndrome thought to be linked to brain damage, has been associated with some people who commit murder, who apparently thought they were killing an imposter of their loved one. I admit that’s an extreme example, but it’s the kind of thing I want to see in this proposed category. Would “Medical conditions and criminal law” be a good description of such a category? <a href="/wiki/User:Viriditas" title="User:Viriditas">Viriditas</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Viriditas" title="User talk:Viriditas">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_136#c-Viriditas-2020-05-20T20:29:00.000Z-WhatamIdoing-2020-05-16T17:30:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:29, 20 May 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Viriditas-2020-05-20T20:29:00.000Z-WhatamIdoing-2020-05-16T17:30:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Viriditas-2020-05-20T20:29:00.000Z-WhatamIdoing-2020-05-16T17:30:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Doc_James-2020-05-24T08:14:00.000Z-Viriditas-2020-05-20T20:29:00.000Z"></span>Others could include <a href="/wiki/SIDS" title="SIDS">SIDS</a>, bleeding disorders, and <a href="/wiki/Osteogenesis_imperfecta" title="Osteogenesis imperfecta">osteogenesis imperfecta</a> I would imagine. <a href="/wiki/User:Doc_James" title="User:Doc James"><span style="color:#0000f1"><b>Doc James</b></span></a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Doc_James" title="User talk:Doc James">talk</a> · <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Doc_James" title="Special:Contributions/Doc James">contribs</a> · <a href="/wiki/Special:EmailUser/Doc_James" title="Special:EmailUser/Doc James">email</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_136#c-Doc_James-2020-05-24T08:14:00.000Z-Viriditas-2020-05-20T20:29:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">08:14, 24 May 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Doc_James-2020-05-24T08:14:00.000Z-Viriditas-2020-05-20T20:29:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Doc_James-2020-05-24T08:14:00.000Z-Viriditas-2020-05-20T20:29:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <p><br/> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Category:Medical_outbreaks_by_country_has_been_nominated_for_renaming" data-mw-thread-id="h-Category:Medical_outbreaks_by_country_has_been_nominated_for_renaming-2020-05-25T18:36:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Category:Medical_outbreaks_by_country_has_been_nominated_for_renaming-2020-05-25T18:36:00.000Z"></span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Category:Medical_outbreaks_by_country&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category:Medical outbreaks by country (page does not exist)">Category:Medical outbreaks by country</a> has been nominated for renaming<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Category:Medical_outbreaks_by_country_has_been_nominated_for_renaming-2020-05-25T18:36:00.000Z"></span></h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <div class="floatleft" style="margin-bottom:0"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-BrownHairedGirl-2020-05-25T18:36:00.000Z-Category:Medical_outbreaks_by_country_has_been_nominated_for_renaming"></span><span typeof="mw:File"><span><img alt="" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/5/5f/Ambox_warning_orange.svg/48px-Ambox_warning_orange.svg.png" decoding="async" width="48" height="41" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/5/5f/Ambox_warning_orange.svg/72px-Ambox_warning_orange.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/5/5f/Ambox_warning_orange.svg/96px-Ambox_warning_orange.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="378" data-file-height="326"/></span></span></div><p><b><a href="/w/index.php?title=Category:Medical_outbreaks_by_country&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category:Medical outbreaks by country (page does not exist)">Category:Medical outbreaks by country</a></b> and <b><a href="/w/index.php?title=Category:Medical_outbreaks_by_dependent_territory&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category:Medical outbreaks by dependent territory (page does not exist)">Category:Medical outbreaks by dependent territory</a></b>, which are within the scope of this WikiProject, has been nominated for renaming to "Disease outbreaks ...", along with about 185 of their sub-categories. A discussion is taking place to decide whether this proposal complies with the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Categorization" title="Wikipedia:Categorization">categorization</a> guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at <b><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2020_May_25#Medical_outbreaks" title="Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2020 May 25">the category's entry</a></b> on the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion" title="Wikipedia:Categories for discussion">categories for discussion</a> page. Thank you. --<a href="/wiki/User:BrownHairedGirl" title="User:BrownHairedGirl"><span style="font-variant:small-caps"><span style="color:#663200;">Brown</span>HairedGirl</span></a> <small><a href="/wiki/User_talk:BrownHairedGirl" title="User talk:BrownHairedGirl">(talk)</a> • (<a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/BrownHairedGirl" title="Special:Contributions/BrownHairedGirl">contribs</a>)</small> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_136#c-BrownHairedGirl-2020-05-25T18:36:00.000Z-Category:Medical_outbreaks_by_country_has_been_nominated_for_renaming" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:36, 25 May 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-BrownHairedGirl-2020-05-25T18:36:00.000Z-Category:Medical_outbreaks_by_country_has_been_nominated_for_renaming"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-BrownHairedGirl-2020-05-25T18:36:00.000Z-Category:Medical_outbreaks_by_country_has_been_nominated_for_renaming"></span> </p><dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Ozzie10aaaa-2020-05-25T19:22:00.000Z-BrownHairedGirl-2020-05-25T18:36:00.000Z"></span>thank you for post--<a href="/wiki/User:Ozzie10aaaa" title="User:Ozzie10aaaa">Ozzie10aaaa</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Ozzie10aaaa" title="User talk:Ozzie10aaaa">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_136#c-Ozzie10aaaa-2020-05-25T19:22:00.000Z-BrownHairedGirl-2020-05-25T18:36:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:22, 25 May 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Ozzie10aaaa-2020-05-25T19:22:00.000Z-BrownHairedGirl-2020-05-25T18:36:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Ozzie10aaaa-2020-05-25T19:22:00.000Z-BrownHairedGirl-2020-05-25T18:36:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Insulin_pen" data-mw-thread-id="h-Insulin_pen-2020-05-25T22:44:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Insulin_pen-2020-05-25T22:44:00.000Z"></span><a href="/wiki/Insulin_pen" class="mw-redirect" title="Insulin pen">Insulin pen</a><span data-mw-comment-end="h-Insulin_pen-2020-05-25T22:44:00.000Z"></span></h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Berchanhimez-2020-05-25T22:44:00.000Z-Insulin_pen"></span>What would be the proper process to get this article expanded and at a more general title to cover things like <a href="/wiki/GLP-1_agonist" class="mw-redirect" title="GLP-1 agonist">GLP-1 agonists</a> and <a href="/wiki/Monoclonal_antibodies" class="mw-redirect" title="Monoclonal antibodies">monoclonal antibodies</a> that are injected via pen administration systems? I don't think insulin pens themselves need a standalone article if it can be included in a more general article title such as <a href="/wiki/Medication_pen" class="mw-redirect" title="Medication pen">medication pens</a> or something. I'm not sure what the process would be to do this - expand the article first at the incorrect title, or move it to a new title then expand it, or whether there should really be two separate articles (one for insulin, one not). Any guidance is appreciated. <span title="How to pronounce Berchanhimez in the International Phonetic Alphabet (IPA)" class="IPA">bɜ:ʳkənhɪmez</span> (<a href="/wiki/User:Berchanhimez" title="User:Berchanhimez">User</a>/<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Berchanhimez" title="User talk:Berchanhimez">say hi!</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_136#c-Berchanhimez-2020-05-25T22:44:00.000Z-Insulin_pen" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:44, 25 May 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Berchanhimez-2020-05-25T22:44:00.000Z-Insulin_pen"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Berchanhimez-2020-05-25T22:44:00.000Z-Insulin_pen"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Johnbod-2020-05-25T23:39:00.000Z-Berchanhimez-2020-05-25T22:44:00.000Z"></span>I agree a new, more general article on these devices would be better - <a href="/wiki/Pen_needles" class="mw-redirect" title="Pen needles">Pen needles</a> could be rolled into it, and any insulin-specific bits either given a section, or taken to the relevant insulin articles. What is the usual term? <a href="/wiki/Injector_pen" title="Injector pen">Injector pen</a> or <a href="/wiki/Pen_injector" class="mw-redirect" title="Pen injector">Pen injector</a>? The former seems ahead on ghits, but both are way ahead of <a href="/wiki/Medication_pen" class="mw-redirect" title="Medication pen">medication pen</a>; <a href="/wiki/Pen_injector" class="mw-redirect" title="Pen injector">Pen injector</a> redirects to <a href="/wiki/Autoinjector" title="Autoinjector">Autoinjector</a> - surely wrongly. Something with pen in it, anyway. Is it part of the definition that they are pre-filled with the drug? I think so. You could do it various ways, but I would move the current article to the new title, after proposing that/referring to this discussion on the talk. <a href="/wiki/User:Johnbod" title="User:Johnbod">Johnbod</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Johnbod" title="User talk:Johnbod">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_136#c-Johnbod-2020-05-25T23:39:00.000Z-Berchanhimez-2020-05-25T22:44:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:39, 25 May 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Johnbod-2020-05-25T23:39:00.000Z-Berchanhimez-2020-05-25T22:44:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Johnbod-2020-05-25T23:39:00.000Z-Berchanhimez-2020-05-25T22:44:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Berchanhimez-2020-05-26T00:11:00.000Z-Johnbod-2020-05-25T23:39:00.000Z"></span>I’ll do some research into what relevant journals are calling them when I get a chance in the next day or two, and see if I can come up with a conclusive “normal”, but I suspect that it’s going to be no definitive title - because the term itself is very adaptable to the sentence it’s being used in. <span title="How to pronounce Berchanhimez in the International Phonetic Alphabet (IPA)" class="IPA">bɜ:ʳkənhɪmez</span> (<a href="/wiki/User:Berchanhimez" title="User:Berchanhimez">User</a>/<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Berchanhimez" title="User talk:Berchanhimez">say hi!</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_136#c-Berchanhimez-2020-05-26T00:11:00.000Z-Johnbod-2020-05-25T23:39:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:11, 26 May 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Berchanhimez-2020-05-26T00:11:00.000Z-Johnbod-2020-05-25T23:39:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Berchanhimez-2020-05-26T00:11:00.000Z-Johnbod-2020-05-25T23:39:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span class="template-ping"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-RexxS-2020-05-26T01:18:00.000Z-Berchanhimez-2020-05-26T00:11:00.000Z"></span>@<a href="/wiki/User:Berchanhimez" title="User:Berchanhimez">Berchanhimez</a>:</span> Have you considered sketching out a draft for the proposed new article in your <a href="/wiki/User:Berchanhimez/sandbox" title="User:Berchanhimez/sandbox">sandbox</a>? You can copy chunks (or all) of existing articles as long as you say where they came from in your edit summary. Write/adapt the sections first and leave the lead until last. The process of doing that may well help you decide on a good title, as you will have read a lot of current sources by then. --<a href="/wiki/User:RexxS" title="User:RexxS">RexxS</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:RexxS" title="User talk:RexxS">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_136#c-RexxS-2020-05-26T01:18:00.000Z-Berchanhimez-2020-05-26T00:11:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:18, 26 May 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-RexxS-2020-05-26T01:18:00.000Z-Berchanhimez-2020-05-26T00:11:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-RexxS-2020-05-26T01:18:00.000Z-Berchanhimez-2020-05-26T00:11:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span class="template-ping"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Berchanhimez-2020-05-26T01:28:00.000Z-RexxS-2020-05-26T01:18:00.000Z"></span>@<a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Rexxs&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Rexxs (page does not exist)">Rexxs</a>:</span> - I can, but right now I’ve a proposed edit for a template in my sandbox. I suppose I could compose a secondary sandbox for this article, but I was more trying to gauge opinion before starting intense work on this article. It seems at least two (you and the other editor) feel that a combined article for all “pen injectors” is a good idea, so I’ll start work when I have a chance. Thanks, <span title="How to pronounce Berchanhimez in the International Phonetic Alphabet (IPA)" class="IPA">bɜ:ʳkənhɪmez</span> (<a href="/wiki/User:Berchanhimez" title="User:Berchanhimez">User</a>/<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Berchanhimez" title="User talk:Berchanhimez">say hi!</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_136#c-Berchanhimez-2020-05-26T01:28:00.000Z-RexxS-2020-05-26T01:18:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:28, 26 May 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Berchanhimez-2020-05-26T01:28:00.000Z-RexxS-2020-05-26T01:18:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Berchanhimez-2020-05-26T01:28:00.000Z-RexxS-2020-05-26T01:18:00.000Z"></span></dd> <dd><span class="template-ping"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-RexxS-2020-05-26T01:29:00.000Z-RexxS-2020-05-26T01:18:00.000Z"></span>@<a href="/wiki/User:RexxS" title="User:RexxS">RexxS</a>:</span> did I do it right this time? <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_136#c-RexxS-2020-05-26T01:29:00.000Z-RexxS-2020-05-26T01:18:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:29, 26 May 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-RexxS-2020-05-26T01:29:00.000Z-RexxS-2020-05-26T01:18:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-RexxS-2020-05-26T01:29:00.000Z-RexxS-2020-05-26T01:18:00.000Z"></span></dd> <dd><span class="template-ping"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Berchanhimez-2020-05-26T01:50:00.000Z-RexxS-2020-05-26T01:18:00.000Z"></span>@<a href="/wiki/User:RexxS" title="User:RexxS">RexxS</a>:</span> - the answer is no, for some reason it didn’t fully sign. The mobile editor is... not fun. <span title="How to pronounce Berchanhimez in the International Phonetic Alphabet (IPA)" class="IPA">bɜ:ʳkənhɪmez</span> (<a href="/wiki/User:Berchanhimez" title="User:Berchanhimez">User</a>/<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Berchanhimez" title="User talk:Berchanhimez">say hi!</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_136#c-Berchanhimez-2020-05-26T01:50:00.000Z-RexxS-2020-05-26T01:18:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:50, 26 May 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Berchanhimez-2020-05-26T01:50:00.000Z-RexxS-2020-05-26T01:18:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Berchanhimez-2020-05-26T01:50:00.000Z-RexxS-2020-05-26T01:18:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Category:Epidemics_has_been_nominated_for_merging_to_Category:Disease_outbreaks,_along_with_similar_merges_and_renamings_for_its_sub-categories." data-mw-thread-id="h-Category:Epidemics_has_been_nominated_for_merging_to_Category:Disease_outbreaks,-2020-05-26T09:37:00.000Z"><span id="Category:Epidemics_has_been_nominated_for_merging_to_Category:Disease_outbreaks.2C_along_with_similar_merges_and_renamings_for_its_sub-categories."></span><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Category:Epidemics_has_been_nominated_for_merging_to_Category:Disease_outbreaks,-2020-05-26T09:37:00.000Z"></span><a href="/wiki/Category:Epidemics" title="Category:Epidemics">Category:Epidemics</a> has been nominated for merging to <a href="/wiki/Category:Disease_outbreaks" title="Category:Disease outbreaks">Category:Disease outbreaks</a>, along with similar merges and renamings for its sub-categories.<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Category:Epidemics_has_been_nominated_for_merging_to_Category:Disease_outbreaks,-2020-05-26T09:37:00.000Z"></span></h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <div class="floatleft" style="margin-bottom:0"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-BrownHairedGirl-2020-05-26T09:37:00.000Z-Category:Epidemics_has_been_nominated_for_merging_to_Category:Disease_outbreaks,"></span><span typeof="mw:File"><span><img alt="" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/5/5f/Ambox_warning_orange.svg/48px-Ambox_warning_orange.svg.png" decoding="async" width="48" height="41" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/5/5f/Ambox_warning_orange.svg/72px-Ambox_warning_orange.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/5/5f/Ambox_warning_orange.svg/96px-Ambox_warning_orange.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="378" data-file-height="326"/></span></span></div><p><b><a href="/wiki/Category:Epidemics" title="Category:Epidemics">Category:Epidemics</a></b>, which is within the scope of this WikiProject, has been nominated for merging to <a href="/wiki/Category:Disease_outbreaks" title="Category:Disease outbreaks">Category:Disease outbreaks</a>, along with similar merges and renamings for its sub-categories.. A discussion is taking place to decide whether this proposal complies with the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Categorization" title="Wikipedia:Categorization">categorization</a> guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at <b><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2020_May_25#Disease_outbreaks" title="Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2020 May 25">the category's entry</a></b> on the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion" title="Wikipedia:Categories for discussion">categories for discussion</a> page. Thank you. --<a href="/wiki/User:BrownHairedGirl" title="User:BrownHairedGirl"><span style="font-variant:small-caps"><span style="color:#663200;">Brown</span>HairedGirl</span></a> <small><a href="/wiki/User_talk:BrownHairedGirl" title="User talk:BrownHairedGirl">(talk)</a> • (<a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/BrownHairedGirl" title="Special:Contributions/BrownHairedGirl">contribs</a>)</small> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_136#c-BrownHairedGirl-2020-05-26T09:37:00.000Z-Category:Epidemics_has_been_nominated_for_merging_to_Category:Disease_outbreaks," class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">09:37, 26 May 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-BrownHairedGirl-2020-05-26T09:37:00.000Z-Category:Epidemics_has_been_nominated_for_merging_to_Category:Disease_outbreaks,"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-BrownHairedGirl-2020-05-26T09:37:00.000Z-Category:Epidemics_has_been_nominated_for_merging_to_Category:Disease_outbreaks,"></span> </p><dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Ozzie10aaaa-2020-05-26T12:34:00.000Z-BrownHairedGirl-2020-05-26T09:37:00.000Z"></span>thank you for post--<a href="/wiki/User:Ozzie10aaaa" title="User:Ozzie10aaaa">Ozzie10aaaa</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Ozzie10aaaa" title="User talk:Ozzie10aaaa">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_136#c-Ozzie10aaaa-2020-05-26T12:34:00.000Z-BrownHairedGirl-2020-05-26T09:37:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">12:34, 26 May 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Ozzie10aaaa-2020-05-26T12:34:00.000Z-BrownHairedGirl-2020-05-26T09:37:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Ozzie10aaaa-2020-05-26T12:34:00.000Z-BrownHairedGirl-2020-05-26T09:37:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl>    </div><noscript><img src="https://login.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:CentralAutoLogin/start?type=1x1&useformat=desktop" alt="" width="1" height="1" style="border: none; position: absolute;"></noscript> <div class="printfooter" data-nosnippet="">Retrieved from "<a dir="ltr" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_136&oldid=1189628412">https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_136&oldid=1189628412</a>"</div></div> <div id="catlinks" class="catlinks catlinks-allhidden" data-mw="interface"></div> </div> </main> </div> <div class="mw-footer-container"> <footer id="footer" class="mw-footer" > <ul id="footer-info"> <li id="footer-info-lastmod"> This page was last edited on 13 December 2023, at 01:15<span class="anonymous-show"> (UTC)</span>.</li> <li id="footer-info-copyright">Text is available under the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Text_of_the_Creative_Commons_Attribution-ShareAlike_4.0_International_License" title="Wikipedia:Text of the Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike 4.0 International License">Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike 4.0 License</a>; additional terms may apply. By using this site, you agree to the <a href="https://foundation.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:MyLanguage/Policy:Terms_of_Use" class="extiw" title="foundation:Special:MyLanguage/Policy:Terms of Use">Terms of Use</a> and <a href="https://foundation.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:MyLanguage/Policy:Privacy_policy" class="extiw" title="foundation:Special:MyLanguage/Policy:Privacy policy">Privacy Policy</a>. Wikipedia® is a registered trademark of the <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://wikimediafoundation.org/">Wikimedia Foundation, Inc.</a>, a non-profit organization.</li> </ul> <ul id="footer-places"> <li id="footer-places-privacy"><a href="https://foundation.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:MyLanguage/Policy:Privacy_policy">Privacy policy</a></li> <li id="footer-places-about"><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:About">About Wikipedia</a></li> <li id="footer-places-disclaimers"><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:General_disclaimer">Disclaimers</a></li> <li id="footer-places-contact"><a href="//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Contact_us">Contact Wikipedia</a></li> <li id="footer-places-wm-codeofconduct"><a href="https://foundation.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:MyLanguage/Policy:Universal_Code_of_Conduct">Code of Conduct</a></li> <li id="footer-places-developers"><a href="https://developer.wikimedia.org">Developers</a></li> <li id="footer-places-statslink"><a href="https://stats.wikimedia.org/#/en.wikipedia.org">Statistics</a></li> <li id="footer-places-cookiestatement"><a href="https://foundation.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:MyLanguage/Policy:Cookie_statement">Cookie statement</a></li> <li id="footer-places-mobileview"><a href="//en.m.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_136&mobileaction=toggle_view_mobile" class="noprint stopMobileRedirectToggle">Mobile view</a></li> </ul> <ul id="footer-icons" class="noprint"> <li id="footer-copyrightico"><a href="https://wikimediafoundation.org/" class="cdx-button cdx-button--fake-button cdx-button--size-large cdx-button--fake-button--enabled"><img src="/static/images/footer/wikimedia-button.svg" width="84" height="29" alt="Wikimedia Foundation" loading="lazy"></a></li> <li id="footer-poweredbyico"><a href="https://www.mediawiki.org/" class="cdx-button cdx-button--fake-button cdx-button--size-large cdx-button--fake-button--enabled"><img src="/w/resources/assets/poweredby_mediawiki.svg" alt="Powered by MediaWiki" width="88" height="31" loading="lazy"></a></li> </ul> </footer> </div> </div> </div> <div class="vector-settings" id="p-dock-bottom"> <ul></ul> </div><script>(RLQ=window.RLQ||[]).push(function(){mw.config.set({"wgHostname":"mw-web.codfw.main-7fc47fc68d-97t9b","wgBackendResponseTime":1384,"wgDiscussionToolsPageThreads":[{"headingLevel":2,"name":"h-PaleoNeonate-2020-05-06T08:43:00.000Z","type":"heading","level":0,"id":"h-Tuberculosis-2020-05-06T08:43:00.000Z","replies":[{"timestamp":"2020-05-06T08:43:00.000Z","author":"PaleoNeonate","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-PaleoNeonate-2020-05-06T08:43:00.000Z-Tuberculosis","replies":[],"displayName":"Paleo"},{"timestamp":"2020-05-06T16:22:00.000Z","author":"WhatamIdoing","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-WhatamIdoing-2020-05-06T16:22:00.000Z-Tuberculosis","replies":[{"timestamp":"2020-05-06T19:33:00.000Z","author":"Whispyhistory","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Whispyhistory-2020-05-06T19:33:00.000Z-WhatamIdoing-2020-05-06T16:22:00.000Z","replies":[{"timestamp":"2020-05-07T19:41:00.000Z","author":"Whispyhistory","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Whispyhistory-2020-05-07T19:41:00.000Z-Whispyhistory-2020-05-06T19:33:00.000Z","replies":[]}]}]}],"uneditableSection":true},{"headingLevel":2,"name":"h-Girth_Summit-2020-05-09T10:50:00.000Z","type":"heading","level":0,"id":"h-Biomedical_material_based_on_non-MEDRS_sourcing-2020-05-09T10:50:00.000Z","replies":[{"timestamp":"2020-05-09T10:50:00.000Z","author":"Girth Summit","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Girth_Summit-2020-05-09T10:50:00.000Z-Biomedical_material_based_on_non-MEDRS_sourcing","replies":[{"timestamp":"2020-05-11T15:09:00.000Z","author":"Doc James","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Doc_James-2020-05-11T15:09:00.000Z-Girth_Summit-2020-05-09T10:50:00.000Z","replies":[{"timestamp":"2020-05-11T15:12:00.000Z","author":"Girth Summit","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Girth_Summit-2020-05-11T15:12:00.000Z-Doc_James-2020-05-11T15:09:00.000Z","replies":[{"timestamp":"2020-05-11T15:17:00.000Z","author":"Doc James","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Doc_James-2020-05-11T15:17:00.000Z-Girth_Summit-2020-05-11T15:12:00.000Z","replies":[{"timestamp":"2020-05-11T15:19:00.000Z","author":"Girth Summit","type":"comment","level":5,"id":"c-Girth_Summit-2020-05-11T15:19:00.000Z-Doc_James-2020-05-11T15:17:00.000Z","replies":[{"timestamp":"2020-05-11T15:41:00.000Z","author":"Doc James","type":"comment","level":6,"id":"c-Doc_James-2020-05-11T15:41:00.000Z-Girth_Summit-2020-05-11T15:19:00.000Z","replies":[{"timestamp":"2020-05-11T23:11:00.000Z","author":"Clayoquot","type":"comment","level":7,"id":"c-Clayoquot-2020-05-11T23:11:00.000Z-Doc_James-2020-05-11T15:41:00.000Z","replies":[]}]}],"displayName":"GirthSummit"}]}],"displayName":"GirthSummit"}]}],"displayName":"GirthSummit"}],"uneditableSection":true},{"headingLevel":2,"name":"h-Bluerasberry-2020-05-11T22:12:00.000Z","type":"heading","level":0,"id":"h-Online_medical_symposium_-_COVID-19_-_Wiki_NYC-2020-05-11T22:12:00.000Z","replies":[{"timestamp":"2020-05-11T22:12:00.000Z","author":"Bluerasberry","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Bluerasberry-2020-05-11T22:12:00.000Z-Online_medical_symposium_-_COVID-19_-_Wiki_NYC","replies":[{"timestamp":"2020-05-12T00:50:00.000Z","author":"Ozzie10aaaa","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Ozzie10aaaa-2020-05-12T00:50:00.000Z-Bluerasberry-2020-05-11T22:12:00.000Z","replies":[{"timestamp":"2020-05-13T04:48:00.000Z","author":"Evolution and evolvability","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Evolution_and_evolvability-2020-05-13T04:48:00.000Z-Ozzie10aaaa-2020-05-12T00:50:00.000Z","replies":[],"displayName":"T.Shafee(Evo\u0026Evo)"}]}],"displayName":"Blue Rasberry"}],"uneditableSection":true},{"headingLevel":2,"name":"h-Adrian_J._Hunter-2020-05-11T13:09:00.000Z","type":"heading","level":0,"id":"h-A_thank_you-2020-05-11T13:09:00.000Z","replies":[{"timestamp":"2020-05-11T13:09:00.000Z","author":"Adrian J. Hunter","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Adrian_J._Hunter-2020-05-11T13:09:00.000Z-A_thank_you","replies":[{"timestamp":"2020-05-11T14:39:00.000Z","author":"WhatamIdoing","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-WhatamIdoing-2020-05-11T14:39:00.000Z-Adrian_J._Hunter-2020-05-11T13:09:00.000Z","replies":[{"timestamp":"2020-05-11T16:07:00.000Z","author":"Graham Beards","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Graham_Beards-2020-05-11T16:07:00.000Z-WhatamIdoing-2020-05-11T14:39:00.000Z","replies":[{"timestamp":"2020-05-13T04:40:00.000Z","author":"Evolution and evolvability","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Evolution_and_evolvability-2020-05-13T04:40:00.000Z-Graham_Beards-2020-05-11T16:07:00.000Z","replies":[{"timestamp":"2020-05-13T05:02:00.000Z","author":"WhatamIdoing","type":"comment","level":5,"id":"c-WhatamIdoing-2020-05-13T05:02:00.000Z-Evolution_and_evolvability-2020-05-13T04:40:00.000Z","replies":[]}],"displayName":"T.Shafee(Evo\u0026Evo)"}]}]}],"displayName":"Adrian J. Hunter"}],"uneditableSection":true},{"headingLevel":2,"name":"h-Anne_Delong-2020-05-12T10:25:00.000Z","type":"heading","level":0,"id":"h-Shepard_Hurwitz-2020-05-12T10:25:00.000Z","replies":[{"timestamp":"2020-05-12T10:25:00.000Z","author":"Anne Delong","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Anne_Delong-2020-05-12T10:25:00.000Z-Shepard_Hurwitz","replies":[{"timestamp":"2020-05-13T21:08:00.000Z","author":"Ozzie10aaaa","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Ozzie10aaaa-2020-05-13T21:08:00.000Z-Anne_Delong-2020-05-12T10:25:00.000Z","replies":[]}]}],"uneditableSection":true},{"headingLevel":2,"name":"h-HLHJ-2020-05-07T01:04:00.000Z","type":"heading","level":0,"id":"h-Image_needing_MEDRS?-2020-05-07T01:04:00.000Z","replies":[{"timestamp":"2020-05-07T01:04:00.000Z","author":"HLHJ","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-HLHJ-2020-05-07T01:04:00.000Z-Image_needing_MEDRS?","replies":[{"timestamp":"2020-05-07T03:24:00.000Z","author":"WhatamIdoing","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-WhatamIdoing-2020-05-07T03:24:00.000Z-HLHJ-2020-05-07T01:04:00.000Z","replies":[]},{"timestamp":"2020-05-07T07:56:00.000Z","author":"Colin","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Colin-2020-05-07T07:56:00.000Z-HLHJ-2020-05-07T01:04:00.000Z","replies":[]},{"timestamp":"2020-05-07T22:55:00.000Z","author":"RexxS","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-RexxS-2020-05-07T22:55:00.000Z-HLHJ-2020-05-07T01:04:00.000Z","replies":[{"timestamp":"2020-05-08T00:44:00.000Z","author":"HLHJ","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-HLHJ-2020-05-08T00:44:00.000Z-RexxS-2020-05-07T22:55:00.000Z","replies":[]}]},{"timestamp":"2020-05-08T10:37:00.000Z","author":"Amakuha","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Amakuha-2020-05-08T10:37:00.000Z-HLHJ-2020-05-07T01:04:00.000Z","replies":[{"timestamp":"2020-05-08T15:50:00.000Z","author":"WhatamIdoing","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-WhatamIdoing-2020-05-08T15:50:00.000Z-Amakuha-2020-05-08T10:37:00.000Z","replies":[]}]}]},{"timestamp":"2020-05-08T17:36:00.000Z","author":"Amakuha","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Amakuha-2020-05-08T17:36:00.000Z-Image_needing_MEDRS?","replies":[{"timestamp":"2020-05-08T18:52:00.000Z","author":"HLHJ","type":"comment","level":5,"id":"c-HLHJ-2020-05-08T18:52:00.000Z-Amakuha-2020-05-08T17:36:00.000Z","replies":[{"timestamp":"2020-05-09T04:38:00.000Z","author":"HLHJ","type":"comment","level":6,"id":"c-HLHJ-2020-05-09T04:38:00.000Z-HLHJ-2020-05-08T18:52:00.000Z","replies":[{"timestamp":"2020-05-09T14:56:00.000Z","author":"HLHJ","type":"comment","level":7,"id":"c-HLHJ-2020-05-09T14:56:00.000Z-HLHJ-2020-05-09T04:38:00.000Z","replies":[]}]},{"timestamp":"2020-05-10T06:43:00.000Z","author":"WhatamIdoing","type":"comment","level":6,"id":"c-WhatamIdoing-2020-05-10T06:43:00.000Z-HLHJ-2020-05-08T18:52:00.000Z","replies":[]}]}]},{"timestamp":"2020-05-12T12:05:00.000Z","author":"Sciencia58","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Sciencia58-2020-05-12T12:05:00.000Z-Image_needing_MEDRS?","replies":[{"timestamp":"2020-05-12T10:32:00.000Z","author":"Sciencia58","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Sciencia58-2020-05-12T10:32:00.000Z-Sciencia58-2020-05-12T12:05:00.000Z","replies":[{"timestamp":"2020-05-13T04:58:00.000Z","author":"WhatamIdoing","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-WhatamIdoing-2020-05-13T04:58:00.000Z-Sciencia58-2020-05-12T10:32:00.000Z","replies":[]}]}]},{"timestamp":"2020-05-12T12:08:00.000Z","author":"Sciencia58","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Sciencia58-2020-05-12T12:08:00.000Z-Image_needing_MEDRS?","replies":[{"timestamp":"2020-05-12T18:53:00.000Z","author":"Sciencia58","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Sciencia58-2020-05-12T18:53:00.000Z-Sciencia58-2020-05-12T12:08:00.000Z","replies":[{"timestamp":"2020-05-13T05:10:00.000Z","author":"HLHJ","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-HLHJ-2020-05-13T05:10:00.000Z-Sciencia58-2020-05-12T18:53:00.000Z","replies":[{"timestamp":"2020-05-13T06:11:00.000Z","author":"Sciencia58","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Sciencia58-2020-05-13T06:11:00.000Z-HLHJ-2020-05-13T05:10:00.000Z","replies":[]},{"timestamp":"2020-05-13T06:43:00.000Z","author":"Sciencia58","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Sciencia58-2020-05-13T06:43:00.000Z-HLHJ-2020-05-13T05:10:00.000Z","replies":[]},{"timestamp":"2020-05-13T07:06:00.000Z","author":"Sciencia58","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Sciencia58-2020-05-13T07:06:00.000Z-HLHJ-2020-05-13T05:10:00.000Z","replies":[{"timestamp":"2020-05-14T00:30:00.000Z","author":"HLHJ","type":"comment","level":5,"id":"c-HLHJ-2020-05-14T00:30:00.000Z-Sciencia58-2020-05-13T07:06:00.000Z","replies":[]}]}]}]}]}],"uneditableSection":true},{"headingLevel":2,"name":"h-Berchanhimez-2020-05-12T00:32:00.000Z","type":"heading","level":0,"id":"h-Lente_insulin_Comment-2020-05-12T00:32:00.000Z","replies":[{"timestamp":"2020-05-12T00:32:00.000Z","author":"Berchanhimez","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Berchanhimez-2020-05-12T00:32:00.000Z-Lente_insulin_Comment","replies":[{"timestamp":"2020-05-13T05:09:00.000Z","author":"WhatamIdoing","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-WhatamIdoing-2020-05-13T05:09:00.000Z-Berchanhimez-2020-05-12T00:32:00.000Z","replies":[{"timestamp":"2020-05-13T06:02:00.000Z","author":"Berchanhimez","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Berchanhimez-2020-05-13T06:02:00.000Z-WhatamIdoing-2020-05-13T05:09:00.000Z","replies":[{"timestamp":"2020-05-13T20:02:00.000Z","author":"WhatamIdoing","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-WhatamIdoing-2020-05-13T20:02:00.000Z-Berchanhimez-2020-05-13T06:02:00.000Z","replies":[{"timestamp":"2020-05-13T20:04:00.000Z","author":"WhatamIdoing","type":"comment","level":5,"id":"c-WhatamIdoing-2020-05-13T20:04:00.000Z-WhatamIdoing-2020-05-13T20:02:00.000Z","replies":[{"timestamp":"2020-05-13T20:06:00.000Z","author":"Berchanhimez","type":"comment","level":6,"id":"c-Berchanhimez-2020-05-13T20:06:00.000Z-WhatamIdoing-2020-05-13T20:04:00.000Z","replies":[{"timestamp":"2020-05-13T23:22:00.000Z","author":"WhatamIdoing","type":"comment","level":7,"id":"c-WhatamIdoing-2020-05-13T23:22:00.000Z-Berchanhimez-2020-05-13T20:06:00.000Z","replies":[]}],"displayName":"User"}]}]}],"displayName":"User"}]}],"displayName":"User"},{"timestamp":"2020-05-14T01:38:00.000Z","author":"Berchanhimez","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Berchanhimez-2020-05-14T01:38:00.000Z-Lente_insulin_Comment","replies":[],"displayName":"User"}],"uneditableSection":true},{"headingLevel":2,"name":"h-86.134.212.26-2020-05-14T10:27:00.000Z","type":"heading","level":0,"id":"h-Paediatric_multisystem_inflammatory_syndrome-2020-05-14T10:27:00.000Z","replies":[{"timestamp":"2020-05-14T10:27:00.000Z","author":"86.134.212.26","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-86.134.212.26-2020-05-14T10:27:00.000Z-Paediatric_multisystem_inflammatory_syndrome","replies":[{"timestamp":"2020-05-14T18:26:00.000Z","author":"WhatamIdoing","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-WhatamIdoing-2020-05-14T18:26:00.000Z-86.134.212.26-2020-05-14T10:27:00.000Z","replies":[{"timestamp":"2020-05-15T19:30:00.000Z","author":"86.134.212.26","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-86.134.212.26-2020-05-15T19:30:00.000Z-WhatamIdoing-2020-05-14T18:26:00.000Z","replies":[]}]}]}],"uneditableSection":true},{"headingLevel":2,"name":"h-Buckshot06-2020-05-16T01:06:00.000Z","type":"heading","level":0,"id":"h-Operation_Warp_Speed-2020-05-16T01:06:00.000Z","replies":[{"timestamp":"2020-05-16T01:06:00.000Z","author":"Buckshot06","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Buckshot06-2020-05-16T01:06:00.000Z-Operation_Warp_Speed","replies":[{"timestamp":"2020-05-16T04:32:00.000Z","author":"Markworthen","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Markworthen-2020-05-16T04:32:00.000Z-Buckshot06-2020-05-16T01:06:00.000Z","replies":[{"timestamp":"2020-05-16T06:58:00.000Z","author":"Buckshot06","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Buckshot06-2020-05-16T06:58:00.000Z-Markworthen-2020-05-16T04:32:00.000Z","replies":[]}],"displayName":"- Mark D Worthen PsyD"}]}],"uneditableSection":true},{"headingLevel":2,"name":"h-Alexbrn-2020-05-15T08:18:00.000Z","type":"heading","level":0,"id":"h-Circumcision_etc-2020-05-15T08:18:00.000Z","replies":[{"timestamp":"2020-05-15T08:18:00.000Z","author":"Alexbrn","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Alexbrn-2020-05-15T08:18:00.000Z-Circumcision_etc","replies":[{"timestamp":"2020-05-15T11:14:00.000Z","author":"CV9933","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-CV9933-2020-05-15T11:14:00.000Z-Alexbrn-2020-05-15T08:18:00.000Z","replies":[{"timestamp":"2020-05-15T11:25:00.000Z","author":"Alexbrn","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Alexbrn-2020-05-15T11:25:00.000Z-CV9933-2020-05-15T11:14:00.000Z","replies":[{"timestamp":"2020-05-17T02:33:00.000Z","author":"Natureium","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Natureium-2020-05-17T02:33:00.000Z-Alexbrn-2020-05-15T11:25:00.000Z","replies":[{"timestamp":"2020-05-17T12:11:00.000Z","author":"CV9933","type":"comment","level":5,"id":"c-CV9933-2020-05-17T12:11:00.000Z-Natureium-2020-05-17T02:33:00.000Z","replies":[{"timestamp":"2020-05-17T23:24:00.000Z","author":"WhatamIdoing","type":"comment","level":6,"id":"c-WhatamIdoing-2020-05-17T23:24:00.000Z-CV9933-2020-05-17T12:11:00.000Z","replies":[{"timestamp":"2020-05-18T03:59:00.000Z","author":"RexxS","type":"comment","level":7,"id":"c-RexxS-2020-05-18T03:59:00.000Z-WhatamIdoing-2020-05-17T23:24:00.000Z","replies":[{"timestamp":"2020-05-18T04:33:00.000Z","author":"WhatamIdoing","type":"comment","level":8,"id":"c-WhatamIdoing-2020-05-18T04:33:00.000Z-RexxS-2020-05-18T03:59:00.000Z","replies":[{"timestamp":"2020-05-18T10:16:00.000Z","author":"CV9933","type":"comment","level":9,"id":"c-CV9933-2020-05-18T10:16:00.000Z-WhatamIdoing-2020-05-18T04:33:00.000Z","replies":[]},{"timestamp":"2020-05-18T18:15:00.000Z","author":"WhatamIdoing","type":"comment","level":9,"id":"c-WhatamIdoing-2020-05-18T18:15:00.000Z-WhatamIdoing-2020-05-18T04:33:00.000Z","replies":[{"timestamp":"2020-05-18T19:06:00.000Z","author":"Roxy the dog","type":"comment","level":10,"id":"c-Roxy_the_dog-2020-05-18T19:06:00.000Z-WhatamIdoing-2020-05-18T18:15:00.000Z","replies":[],"displayName":"Roxy the effin dog ."}]}]}]}]}]}]}]}]}]}],"uneditableSection":true},{"headingLevel":2,"name":"h-KJRMOR-2020-05-16T19:11:00.000Z","type":"heading","level":0,"id":"h-What_are_Immunoglobulins_(Antibodies)_and_its_role_in_Covid-19_neutralization?-2020-05-16T19:11:00.000Z","replies":[{"timestamp":"2020-05-16T19:11:00.000Z","author":"KJRMOR","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-KJRMOR-2020-05-16T19:11:00.000Z-What_are_Immunoglobulins_(Antibodies)_and_its_role_in_Covid-19_neutralization?","replies":[{"timestamp":"2020-05-19T08:04:00.000Z","author":"Klbrain","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Klbrain-2020-05-19T08:04:00.000Z-KJRMOR-2020-05-16T19:11:00.000Z","replies":[]}]},{"timestamp":"2020-05-19T17:55:00.000Z","author":"KJRMOR","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-KJRMOR-2020-05-19T17:55:00.000Z-What_are_Immunoglobulins_(Antibodies)_and_its_role_in_Covid-19_neutralization?","replies":[]},{"timestamp":"2020-05-19T20:49:00.000Z","author":"Boghog","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Boghog-2020-05-19T20:49:00.000Z-What_are_Immunoglobulins_(Antibodies)_and_its_role_in_Covid-19_neutralization?","replies":[{"timestamp":"2020-05-19T21:00:00.000Z","author":"Boghog","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Boghog-2020-05-19T21:00:00.000Z-Boghog-2020-05-19T20:49:00.000Z","replies":[]}]}],"uneditableSection":true},{"headingLevel":2,"name":"h-Colin-2020-03-28T18:42:00.000Z","type":"heading","level":0,"id":"h-RFC_on_pharmaceutical_drug_prices_/currently_at_ArbCom-2020-03-28T18:42:00.000Z","replies":[{"timestamp":"2020-03-28T18:42:00.000Z","author":"Colin","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Colin-2020-03-28T18:42:00.000Z-RFC_on_pharmaceutical_drug_prices_/currently_at_ArbCom","replies":[{"timestamp":"2020-03-28T19:17:00.000Z","author":"SandyGeorgia","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-28T19:17:00.000Z-Colin-2020-03-28T18:42:00.000Z","replies":[{"timestamp":"2020-03-28T20:36:00.000Z","author":"Barkeep49","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Barkeep49-2020-03-28T20:36:00.000Z-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-28T19:17:00.000Z","replies":[{"timestamp":"2020-03-28T20:48:00.000Z","author":"Colin","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Colin-2020-03-28T20:48:00.000Z-Barkeep49-2020-03-28T20:36:00.000Z","replies":[]}]}]}]},{"headingLevel":3,"name":"h-CFCF-2020-03-28T19:22:00.000Z","type":"heading","level":0,"id":"h-Concerns_about_timing_of_this_discussion_due_to_the_COVID-19_pandemic-RFC_on_pharmaceutical_drug_prices_/currently_at_ArbCom-2020-03-28T19:22:00.000Z","replies":[{"timestamp":"2020-03-28T19:22:00.000Z","author":"CFCF","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-CFCF-2020-03-28T19:22:00.000Z-Concerns_about_timing_of_this_discussion_due_to_the_COVID-19_pandemic","replies":[{"timestamp":"2020-03-28T19:28:00.000Z","author":"SandyGeorgia","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-28T19:28:00.000Z-CFCF-2020-03-28T19:22:00.000Z","replies":[{"timestamp":"2020-03-28T21:09:00.000Z","author":"RexxS","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-RexxS-2020-03-28T21:09:00.000Z-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-28T19:28:00.000Z","replies":[{"timestamp":"2020-03-28T21:34:00.000Z","author":"CFCF","type":"comment","level":5,"id":"c-CFCF-2020-03-28T21:34:00.000Z-RexxS-2020-03-28T21:09:00.000Z","replies":[],"displayName":"Carl Fredrik"},{"timestamp":"2020-03-28T21:48:00.000Z","author":"SandyGeorgia","type":"comment","level":5,"id":"c-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-28T21:48:00.000Z-RexxS-2020-03-28T21:09:00.000Z","replies":[{"timestamp":"2020-03-29T10:53:00.000Z","author":"CFCF","type":"comment","level":6,"id":"c-CFCF-2020-03-29T10:53:00.000Z-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-28T21:48:00.000Z","replies":[{"timestamp":"2020-03-29T16:44:00.000Z","author":"SandyGeorgia","type":"comment","level":7,"id":"c-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-29T16:44:00.000Z-CFCF-2020-03-29T10:53:00.000Z","replies":[{"timestamp":"2020-03-29T17:05:00.000Z","author":"CFCF","type":"comment","level":8,"id":"c-CFCF-2020-03-29T17:05:00.000Z-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-29T16:44:00.000Z","replies":[],"displayName":"Carl Fredrik"}]}],"displayName":"Carl Fredrik"}]}]}]}],"displayName":"Carl Fredrik"}]},{"headingLevel":3,"name":"h-WhatamIdoing-2020-03-29T06:09:00.000Z","type":"heading","level":0,"id":"h-Uncertainties_about_bias_//_Implementation-RFC_on_pharmaceutical_drug_prices_/currently_at_ArbCom-2020-03-29T06:09:00.000Z","replies":[{"timestamp":"2020-03-29T06:09:00.000Z","author":"WhatamIdoing","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-WhatamIdoing-2020-03-29T06:09:00.000Z-Uncertainties_about_bias_//_Implementation","replies":[{"timestamp":"2020-03-29T09:30:00.000Z","author":"CFCF","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-CFCF-2020-03-29T09:30:00.000Z-WhatamIdoing-2020-03-29T06:09:00.000Z","replies":[{"timestamp":"2020-03-29T09:04:00.000Z","author":"Colin","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Colin-2020-03-29T09:04:00.000Z-CFCF-2020-03-29T09:30:00.000Z","replies":[{"timestamp":"2020-03-29T09:41:00.000Z","author":"CFCF","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-CFCF-2020-03-29T09:41:00.000Z-Colin-2020-03-29T09:04:00.000Z","replies":[{"timestamp":"2020-03-29T10:14:00.000Z","author":"Colin","type":"comment","level":5,"id":"c-Colin-2020-03-29T10:14:00.000Z-CFCF-2020-03-29T09:41:00.000Z","replies":[{"timestamp":"2020-03-29T10:45:00.000Z","author":"CFCF","type":"comment","level":6,"id":"c-CFCF-2020-03-29T10:45:00.000Z-Colin-2020-03-29T10:14:00.000Z","replies":[{"timestamp":"2020-03-29T15:08:00.000Z","author":"SandyGeorgia","type":"comment","level":7,"id":"c-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-29T15:08:00.000Z-CFCF-2020-03-29T10:45:00.000Z","replies":[{"timestamp":"2020-03-29T16:58:00.000Z","author":"CFCF","type":"comment","level":8,"id":"c-CFCF-2020-03-29T16:58:00.000Z-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-29T15:08:00.000Z","replies":[{"timestamp":"2020-03-29T17:01:00.000Z","author":"SandyGeorgia","type":"comment","level":9,"id":"c-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-29T17:01:00.000Z-CFCF-2020-03-29T16:58:00.000Z","replies":[{"timestamp":"2020-03-29T17:11:00.000Z","author":"CFCF","type":"comment","level":11,"id":"c-CFCF-2020-03-29T17:11:00.000Z-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-29T17:01:00.000Z","replies":[],"displayName":"Carl Fredrik"}]}],"displayName":"Carl Fredrik"}]},{"timestamp":"2020-03-29T15:14:00.000Z","author":"SandyGeorgia","type":"comment","level":7,"id":"c-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-29T15:14:00.000Z-CFCF-2020-03-29T10:45:00.000Z","replies":[]}],"displayName":"Carl Fredrik"}]}],"displayName":"Carl Fredrik"}]}],"displayName":"Carl Fredrik"}]}]},{"headingLevel":3,"name":"h-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-29T15:03:00.000Z","type":"heading","level":0,"id":"h-Implementation-RFC_on_pharmaceutical_drug_prices_/currently_at_ArbCom-2020-03-29T15:03:00.000Z","replies":[{"timestamp":"2020-03-29T15:03:00.000Z","author":"SandyGeorgia","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-29T15:03:00.000Z-Implementation","replies":[{"timestamp":"2020-03-29T17:49:00.000Z","author":"SandyGeorgia","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-29T17:49:00.000Z-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-29T15:03:00.000Z","replies":[]},{"timestamp":"2020-03-29T16:35:00.000Z","author":"Colin","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Colin-2020-03-29T16:35:00.000Z-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-29T15:03:00.000Z","replies":[{"timestamp":"2020-03-29T16:46:00.000Z","author":"SandyGeorgia","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-29T16:46:00.000Z-Colin-2020-03-29T16:35:00.000Z","replies":[{"timestamp":"2020-03-29T16:51:00.000Z","author":"WhatamIdoing","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-WhatamIdoing-2020-03-29T16:51:00.000Z-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-29T16:46:00.000Z","replies":[]}]},{"timestamp":"2020-03-29T16:47:00.000Z","author":"WhatamIdoing","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-WhatamIdoing-2020-03-29T16:47:00.000Z-Colin-2020-03-29T16:35:00.000Z","replies":[{"timestamp":"2020-03-29T17:22:00.000Z","author":"CFCF","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-CFCF-2020-03-29T17:22:00.000Z-WhatamIdoing-2020-03-29T16:47:00.000Z","replies":[{"timestamp":"2020-03-29T18:40:00.000Z","author":"WhatamIdoing","type":"comment","level":5,"id":"c-WhatamIdoing-2020-03-29T18:40:00.000Z-CFCF-2020-03-29T17:22:00.000Z","replies":[]}],"displayName":"Carl Fredrik"},{"timestamp":"2020-03-29T18:18:00.000Z","author":"SandyGeorgia","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-29T18:18:00.000Z-WhatamIdoing-2020-03-29T16:47:00.000Z","replies":[{"timestamp":"2020-03-29T18:55:00.000Z","author":"WhatamIdoing","type":"comment","level":5,"id":"c-WhatamIdoing-2020-03-29T18:55:00.000Z-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-29T18:18:00.000Z","replies":[{"timestamp":"2020-03-29T19:50:00.000Z","author":"CFCF","type":"comment","level":6,"id":"c-CFCF-2020-03-29T19:50:00.000Z-WhatamIdoing-2020-03-29T18:55:00.000Z","replies":[],"displayName":"Carl Fredrik"},{"timestamp":"2020-03-29T20:49:00.000Z","author":"SandyGeorgia","type":"comment","level":6,"id":"c-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-29T20:49:00.000Z-WhatamIdoing-2020-03-29T18:55:00.000Z","replies":[]}]}]}]}]}]}]},{"headingLevel":3,"name":"h-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-29T17:59:00.000Z","type":"heading","level":0,"id":"h-Housekeeping-RFC_on_pharmaceutical_drug_prices_/currently_at_ArbCom-2020-03-29T17:59:00.000Z","replies":[{"timestamp":"2020-03-29T17:59:00.000Z","author":"SandyGeorgia","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-29T17:59:00.000Z-Housekeeping","replies":[{"timestamp":"2020-03-29T18:33:00.000Z","author":"SandyGeorgia","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-29T18:33:00.000Z-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-29T17:59:00.000Z","replies":[{"timestamp":"2020-03-29T21:45:00.000Z","author":"CFCF","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-CFCF-2020-03-29T21:45:00.000Z-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-29T18:33:00.000Z","replies":[{"timestamp":"2020-03-29T21:58:00.000Z","author":"SandyGeorgia","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-29T21:58:00.000Z-CFCF-2020-03-29T21:45:00.000Z","replies":[]}],"displayName":"Carl Fredrik"}]}]}]},{"headingLevel":3,"name":"h-Doc_James-2020-03-29T23:43:00.000Z","type":"heading","level":0,"id":"h-Conclusions-RFC_on_pharmaceutical_drug_prices_/currently_at_ArbCom-2020-03-29T23:43:00.000Z","replies":[{"timestamp":"2020-03-29T23:43:00.000Z","author":"Doc James","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Doc_James-2020-03-29T23:43:00.000Z-Conclusions","replies":[{"timestamp":"2020-03-29T23:50:00.000Z","author":"SandyGeorgia","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-29T23:50:00.000Z-Doc_James-2020-03-29T23:43:00.000Z","replies":[{"timestamp":"2020-03-30T00:28:00.000Z","author":"Doc James","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Doc_James-2020-03-30T00:28:00.000Z-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-29T23:50:00.000Z","replies":[{"timestamp":"2020-03-30T00:43:00.000Z","author":"SandyGeorgia","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-30T00:43:00.000Z-Doc_James-2020-03-30T00:28:00.000Z","replies":[]},{"timestamp":"2020-03-30T00:46:00.000Z","author":"SandyGeorgia","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-30T00:46:00.000Z-Doc_James-2020-03-30T00:28:00.000Z","replies":[{"timestamp":"2020-03-30T00:52:00.000Z","author":"Doc James","type":"comment","level":5,"id":"c-Doc_James-2020-03-30T00:52:00.000Z-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-30T00:46:00.000Z","replies":[]},{"timestamp":"2020-03-30T00:52:00.000Z","author":"Barkeep49","type":"comment","level":5,"id":"c-Barkeep49-2020-03-30T00:52:00.000Z-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-30T00:46:00.000Z","replies":[{"timestamp":"2020-03-30T00:54:00.000Z","author":"SandyGeorgia","type":"comment","level":6,"id":"c-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-30T00:54:00.000Z-Barkeep49-2020-03-30T00:52:00.000Z","replies":[{"timestamp":"2020-03-30T01:00:00.000Z","author":"Barkeep49","type":"comment","level":7,"id":"c-Barkeep49-2020-03-30T01:00:00.000Z-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-30T00:54:00.000Z","replies":[{"timestamp":"2020-03-30T01:03:00.000Z","author":"Doc James","type":"comment","level":8,"id":"c-Doc_James-2020-03-30T01:03:00.000Z-Barkeep49-2020-03-30T01:00:00.000Z","replies":[{"timestamp":"2020-03-30T02:06:00.000Z","author":"SandyGeorgia","type":"comment","level":9,"id":"c-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-30T02:06:00.000Z-Doc_James-2020-03-30T01:03:00.000Z","replies":[]}]}]}]}]}]}]}]}]},{"timestamp":"2020-03-30T01:41:00.000Z","author":"Hipal","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Hipal-2020-03-30T01:41:00.000Z-Conclusions","replies":[{"timestamp":"2020-03-30T01:48:00.000Z","author":"Seraphimblade","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Seraphimblade-2020-03-30T01:48:00.000Z-Hipal-2020-03-30T01:41:00.000Z","replies":[{"timestamp":"2020-03-30T02:05:00.000Z","author":"Doc James","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Doc_James-2020-03-30T02:05:00.000Z-Seraphimblade-2020-03-30T01:48:00.000Z","replies":[]},{"timestamp":"2020-03-30T02:06:00.000Z","author":"SandyGeorgia","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-30T02:06:00.000Z-Seraphimblade-2020-03-30T01:48:00.000Z","replies":[{"timestamp":"2020-03-30T02:24:00.000Z","author":"Hipal","type":"comment","level":5,"id":"c-Hipal-2020-03-30T02:24:00.000Z-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-30T02:06:00.000Z","replies":[{"timestamp":"2020-03-30T02:30:00.000Z","author":"SandyGeorgia","type":"comment","level":6,"id":"c-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-30T02:30:00.000Z-Hipal-2020-03-30T02:24:00.000Z","replies":[]}],"displayName":"Hipal/Ronz"}]}]}],"displayName":"Hipal/Ronz"},{"timestamp":"2020-03-30T03:32:00.000Z","author":"Hipal","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Hipal-2020-03-30T03:32:00.000Z-Conclusions","replies":[{"timestamp":"2020-03-30T05:25:00.000Z","author":"Ymblanter","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Ymblanter-2020-03-30T05:25:00.000Z-Hipal-2020-03-30T03:32:00.000Z","replies":[]}],"displayName":"Hipal/Ronz"},{"timestamp":"2020-04-01T07:34:00.000Z","author":"Colin","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Colin-2020-04-01T07:34:00.000Z-Conclusions","replies":[{"timestamp":"2020-04-01T07:46:00.000Z","author":"Ymblanter","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Ymblanter-2020-04-01T07:46:00.000Z-Colin-2020-04-01T07:34:00.000Z","replies":[{"timestamp":"2020-04-01T08:02:00.000Z","author":"Colin","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Colin-2020-04-01T08:02:00.000Z-Ymblanter-2020-04-01T07:46:00.000Z","replies":[]}]},{"timestamp":"2020-04-13T23:08:00.000Z","author":"Tryptofish","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Tryptofish-2020-04-13T23:08:00.000Z-Colin-2020-04-01T07:34:00.000Z","replies":[]}]}]},{"headingLevel":3,"name":"h-WhatamIdoing-2020-03-30T15:43:00.000Z","type":"heading","level":0,"id":"h-Drug_price_databases_rejected_as_the_sole_source-RFC_on_pharmaceutical_drug_prices_/currently_at_ArbCom-2020-03-30T15:43:00.000Z","replies":[{"timestamp":"2020-03-30T15:43:00.000Z","author":"WhatamIdoing","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-WhatamIdoing-2020-03-30T15:43:00.000Z-Drug_price_databases_rejected_as_the_sole_source","replies":[{"timestamp":"2020-03-30T15:48:00.000Z","author":"Ymblanter","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Ymblanter-2020-03-30T15:48:00.000Z-WhatamIdoing-2020-03-30T15:43:00.000Z","replies":[{"timestamp":"2020-03-30T19:40:00.000Z","author":"Doc James","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Doc_James-2020-03-30T19:40:00.000Z-Ymblanter-2020-03-30T15:48:00.000Z","replies":[{"timestamp":"2020-03-30T21:12:00.000Z","author":"WhatamIdoing","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-WhatamIdoing-2020-03-30T21:12:00.000Z-Doc_James-2020-03-30T19:40:00.000Z","replies":[{"timestamp":"2020-03-30T21:21:00.000Z","author":"Doc James","type":"comment","level":5,"id":"c-Doc_James-2020-03-30T21:21:00.000Z-WhatamIdoing-2020-03-30T21:12:00.000Z","replies":[]}]}]}]}]},{"timestamp":"2020-03-30T19:44:00.000Z","author":"Doc James","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Doc_James-2020-03-30T19:44:00.000Z-Drug_price_databases_rejected_as_the_sole_source","replies":[{"timestamp":"2020-03-30T21:15:00.000Z","author":"Wugapodes","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Wugapodes-2020-03-30T21:15:00.000Z-Doc_James-2020-03-30T19:44:00.000Z","replies":[{"timestamp":"2020-03-30T21:42:00.000Z","author":"Doc James","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Doc_James-2020-03-30T21:42:00.000Z-Wugapodes-2020-03-30T21:15:00.000Z","replies":[{"timestamp":"2020-04-01T07:18:00.000Z","author":"Colin","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Colin-2020-04-01T07:18:00.000Z-Doc_James-2020-03-30T21:42:00.000Z","replies":[]}]}],"displayName":"Wug·"}]},{"timestamp":"2020-04-02T07:39:00.000Z","author":"Colin","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Colin-2020-04-02T07:39:00.000Z-Drug_price_databases_rejected_as_the_sole_source","replies":[{"timestamp":"2020-04-03T06:08:00.000Z","author":"SandyGeorgia","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-SandyGeorgia-2020-04-03T06:08:00.000Z-Colin-2020-04-02T07:39:00.000Z","replies":[]}]}]},{"headingLevel":3,"name":"h-Hipal-2020-03-30T20:16:00.000Z","type":"heading","level":0,"id":"h-Simvastatin-RFC_on_pharmaceutical_drug_prices_/currently_at_ArbCom-2020-03-30T20:16:00.000Z","replies":[{"timestamp":"2020-03-30T20:16:00.000Z","author":"Hipal","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Hipal-2020-03-30T20:16:00.000Z-Simvastatin","replies":[{"timestamp":"2020-03-30T20:21:00.000Z","author":"Doc James","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Doc_James-2020-03-30T20:21:00.000Z-Hipal-2020-03-30T20:16:00.000Z","replies":[{"timestamp":"2020-03-30T20:23:00.000Z","author":"Hipal","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Hipal-2020-03-30T20:23:00.000Z-Doc_James-2020-03-30T20:21:00.000Z","replies":[],"displayName":"Hipal/Ronz"}]},{"timestamp":"2020-03-30T20:44:00.000Z","author":"CFCF","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-CFCF-2020-03-30T20:44:00.000Z-Hipal-2020-03-30T20:16:00.000Z","replies":[{"timestamp":"2020-03-30T21:18:00.000Z","author":"Hipal","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Hipal-2020-03-30T21:18:00.000Z-CFCF-2020-03-30T20:44:00.000Z","replies":[{"timestamp":"2020-03-30T22:09:00.000Z","author":"WhatamIdoing","type":"comment","level":5,"id":"c-WhatamIdoing-2020-03-30T22:09:00.000Z-Hipal-2020-03-30T21:18:00.000Z","replies":[{"timestamp":"2020-03-30T22:16:00.000Z","author":"Doc James","type":"comment","level":7,"id":"c-Doc_James-2020-03-30T22:16:00.000Z-WhatamIdoing-2020-03-30T22:09:00.000Z","replies":[]}]}],"displayName":"Hipal/Ronz"}],"displayName":"Carl Fredrik"},{"timestamp":"2020-03-30T22:08:00.000Z","author":"SandyGeorgia","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-30T22:08:00.000Z-Hipal-2020-03-30T20:16:00.000Z","replies":[]}],"displayName":"Hipal/Ronz"},{"headingLevel":4,"name":"h-Doc_James-2020-03-30T21:34:00.000Z","type":"heading","level":0,"id":"h-RfC-Simvastatin-2020-03-30T21:34:00.000Z","replies":[{"timestamp":"2020-03-30T21:34:00.000Z","author":"Doc James","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Doc_James-2020-03-30T21:34:00.000Z-RfC","replies":[]}]}]},{"headingLevel":3,"name":"h-Hipal-2020-03-30T22:07:00.000Z","type":"heading","level":0,"id":"h-Atorvastatin-RFC_on_pharmaceutical_drug_prices_/currently_at_ArbCom-2020-03-30T22:07:00.000Z","replies":[{"timestamp":"2020-03-30T22:07:00.000Z","author":"Hipal","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Hipal-2020-03-30T22:07:00.000Z-Atorvastatin","replies":[{"timestamp":"2020-03-30T22:11:00.000Z","author":"SandyGeorgia","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-30T22:11:00.000Z-Hipal-2020-03-30T22:07:00.000Z","replies":[]}],"displayName":"Hipal/Ronz"}]},{"headingLevel":3,"name":"h-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-30T22:47:00.000Z","type":"heading","level":0,"id":"h-List_of_pharmaceutical_prices_edited-RFC_on_pharmaceutical_drug_prices_/currently_at_ArbCom-2020-03-30T22:47:00.000Z","replies":[{"timestamp":"2020-03-30T22:47:00.000Z","author":"SandyGeorgia","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-30T22:47:00.000Z-List_of_pharmaceutical_prices_edited","replies":[{"timestamp":"2020-03-31T00:36:00.000Z","author":"SandyGeorgia","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-31T00:36:00.000Z-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-30T22:47:00.000Z","replies":[{"timestamp":"2020-03-31T02:05:00.000Z","author":"SandyGeorgia","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-31T02:05:00.000Z-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-31T00:36:00.000Z","replies":[]}]}]}]},{"headingLevel":3,"name":"h-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-30T23:08:00.000Z","type":"heading","level":0,"id":"h-Ethosuximide-RFC_on_pharmaceutical_drug_prices_/currently_at_ArbCom-2020-03-30T23:08:00.000Z","replies":[{"timestamp":"2020-03-30T23:08:00.000Z","author":"SandyGeorgia","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-30T23:08:00.000Z-Ethosuximide","replies":[{"timestamp":"2020-03-30T23:12:00.000Z","author":"Doc James","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Doc_James-2020-03-30T23:12:00.000Z-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-30T23:08:00.000Z","replies":[{"timestamp":"2020-03-30T23:28:00.000Z","author":"SandyGeorgia","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-30T23:28:00.000Z-Doc_James-2020-03-30T23:12:00.000Z","replies":[{"timestamp":"2020-03-30T23:34:00.000Z","author":"Doc James","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Doc_James-2020-03-30T23:34:00.000Z-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-30T23:28:00.000Z","replies":[{"timestamp":"2020-03-30T23:46:00.000Z","author":"SandyGeorgia","type":"comment","level":5,"id":"c-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-30T23:46:00.000Z-Doc_James-2020-03-30T23:34:00.000Z","replies":[{"timestamp":"2020-03-30T23:51:00.000Z","author":"Doc James","type":"comment","level":6,"id":"c-Doc_James-2020-03-30T23:51:00.000Z-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-30T23:46:00.000Z","replies":[{"timestamp":"2020-03-30T23:58:00.000Z","author":"SandyGeorgia","type":"comment","level":7,"id":"c-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-30T23:58:00.000Z-Doc_James-2020-03-30T23:51:00.000Z","replies":[{"timestamp":"2020-03-31T00:03:00.000Z","author":"Doc James","type":"comment","level":9,"id":"c-Doc_James-2020-03-31T00:03:00.000Z-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-30T23:58:00.000Z","replies":[{"timestamp":"2020-03-31T00:16:00.000Z","author":"SandyGeorgia","type":"comment","level":10,"id":"c-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-31T00:16:00.000Z-Doc_James-2020-03-31T00:03:00.000Z","replies":[{"timestamp":"2020-03-31T00:19:00.000Z","author":"Doc James","type":"comment","level":11,"id":"c-Doc_James-2020-03-31T00:19:00.000Z-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-31T00:16:00.000Z","replies":[{"timestamp":"2020-03-31T00:26:00.000Z","author":"SandyGeorgia","type":"comment","level":12,"id":"c-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-31T00:26:00.000Z-Doc_James-2020-03-31T00:19:00.000Z","replies":[{"timestamp":"2020-03-31T00:42:00.000Z","author":"Doc James","type":"comment","level":13,"id":"c-Doc_James-2020-03-31T00:42:00.000Z-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-31T00:26:00.000Z","replies":[{"timestamp":"2020-03-31T01:22:00.000Z","author":"SandyGeorgia","type":"comment","level":14,"id":"c-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-31T01:22:00.000Z-Doc_James-2020-03-31T00:42:00.000Z","replies":[{"timestamp":"2020-03-31T05:07:00.000Z","author":"Doc James","type":"comment","level":15,"id":"c-Doc_James-2020-03-31T05:07:00.000Z-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-31T01:22:00.000Z","replies":[]}]}]}]}]}]}]}]}]}]}]}]}]}]},{"timestamp":"2020-03-31T01:32:00.000Z","author":"WhatamIdoing","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-WhatamIdoing-2020-03-31T01:32:00.000Z-Ethosuximide","replies":[]}]},{"headingLevel":3,"name":"h-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-31T01:57:00.000Z","type":"heading","level":0,"id":"h-Pyrimethamine-RFC_on_pharmaceutical_drug_prices_/currently_at_ArbCom-2020-03-31T01:57:00.000Z","replies":[{"timestamp":"2020-03-31T01:57:00.000Z","author":"SandyGeorgia","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-31T01:57:00.000Z-Pyrimethamine","replies":[{"timestamp":"2020-03-31T02:01:00.000Z","author":"Hipal","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Hipal-2020-03-31T02:01:00.000Z-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-31T01:57:00.000Z","replies":[{"timestamp":"2020-03-31T05:09:00.000Z","author":"Doc James","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Doc_James-2020-03-31T05:09:00.000Z-Hipal-2020-03-31T02:01:00.000Z","replies":[{"timestamp":"2020-03-31T05:22:00.000Z","author":"SandyGeorgia","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-31T05:22:00.000Z-Doc_James-2020-03-31T05:09:00.000Z","replies":[{"timestamp":"2020-03-31T05:37:00.000Z","author":"Doc James","type":"comment","level":5,"id":"c-Doc_James-2020-03-31T05:37:00.000Z-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-31T05:22:00.000Z","replies":[{"timestamp":"2020-03-31T06:04:00.000Z","author":"SandyGeorgia","type":"comment","level":6,"id":"c-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-31T06:04:00.000Z-Doc_James-2020-03-31T05:37:00.000Z","replies":[]},{"timestamp":"2020-03-31T06:20:00.000Z","author":"SandyGeorgia","type":"comment","level":6,"id":"c-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-31T06:20:00.000Z-Doc_James-2020-03-31T05:37:00.000Z","replies":[]}]}]}]}],"displayName":"Hipal/Ronz"}]}]},{"headingLevel":3,"name":"h-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-31T02:04:00.000Z","type":"heading","level":0,"id":"h-Trimethoprim/sulfamethoxazole-RFC_on_pharmaceutical_drug_prices_/currently_at_ArbCom-2020-03-31T02:04:00.000Z","replies":[{"timestamp":"2020-03-31T02:04:00.000Z","author":"SandyGeorgia","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-31T02:04:00.000Z-Trimethoprim/sulfamethoxazole","replies":[]},{"timestamp":"2020-03-31T02:04:00.000Z","author":"SandyGeorgia","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-SandyGeorgia-2020-03-31T02:04:00.000Z-Trimethoprim/sulfamethoxazole-1","replies":[]}]},{"headingLevel":3,"name":"h-Barkeep49-2020-03-31T03:39:00.000Z","type":"heading","level":0,"id":"h-Notice_of_ArbCom_Request-RFC_on_pharmaceutical_drug_prices_/currently_at_ArbCom-2020-03-31T03:39:00.000Z","replies":[{"timestamp":"2020-03-31T03:39:00.000Z","author":"Barkeep49","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Barkeep49-2020-03-31T03:39:00.000Z-Notice_of_ArbCom_Request","replies":[{"timestamp":"2020-05-21T10:34:00.000Z","author":"Ozzie10aaaa","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Ozzie10aaaa-2020-05-21T10:34:00.000Z-Barkeep49-2020-03-31T03:39:00.000Z","replies":[]}]}]},{"headingLevel":3,"name":"h-Bluerasberry-2020-03-31T13:21:00.000Z","type":"heading","level":0,"id":"h-Propose_postponement_due_to_COVID-19-RFC_on_pharmaceutical_drug_prices_/currently_at_ArbCom-2020-03-31T13:21:00.000Z","replies":[{"timestamp":"2020-03-31T13:21:00.000Z","author":"Bluerasberry","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Bluerasberry-2020-03-31T13:21:00.000Z-Propose_postponement_due_to_COVID-19","replies":[{"timestamp":"2020-03-31T19:09:00.000Z","author":"Doc James","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Doc_James-2020-03-31T19:09:00.000Z-Bluerasberry-2020-03-31T13:21:00.000Z","replies":[]},{"timestamp":"2020-03-31T19:49:00.000Z","author":"DrVogel","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-DrVogel-2020-03-31T19:49:00.000Z-Bluerasberry-2020-03-31T13:21:00.000Z","replies":[],"displayName":"Dr. Vogel"},{"timestamp":"2020-04-12T00:17:00.000Z","author":"Cerevisae","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Cerevisae-2020-04-12T00:17:00.000Z-Bluerasberry-2020-03-31T13:21:00.000Z","replies":[]}],"displayName":"Blue Rasberry"},{"timestamp":"2020-04-13T17:58:00.000Z","author":"SandyGeorgia","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-SandyGeorgia-2020-04-13T17:58:00.000Z-Propose_postponement_due_to_COVID-19","replies":[]},{"timestamp":"2020-04-24T11:53:00.000Z","author":"Serial Number 54129","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Serial_Number_54129-2020-04-24T11:53:00.000Z-Propose_postponement_due_to_COVID-19","replies":[],"displayName":"——"}]},{"headingLevel":3,"name":"h-Hipal-2020-04-02T20:37:00.000Z","type":"heading","level":0,"id":"h-Next_steps?-RFC_on_pharmaceutical_drug_prices_/currently_at_ArbCom-2020-04-02T20:37:00.000Z","replies":[{"timestamp":"2020-04-02T20:37:00.000Z","author":"Hipal","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Hipal-2020-04-02T20:37:00.000Z-Next_steps?","replies":[{"timestamp":"2020-04-02T20:44:00.000Z","author":"SandyGeorgia","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-SandyGeorgia-2020-04-02T20:44:00.000Z-Hipal-2020-04-02T20:37:00.000Z","replies":[{"timestamp":"2020-05-10T16:53:00.000Z","author":"Hipal","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Hipal-2020-05-10T16:53:00.000Z-SandyGeorgia-2020-04-02T20:44:00.000Z","replies":[],"displayName":"Hipal/Ronz"}]}],"displayName":"Hipal/Ronz"}]},{"headingLevel":3,"name":"h-Hipal-2020-04-06T16:21:00.000Z","type":"heading","level":0,"id":"h-Areas_where_clarification_and_further_discussion_may_be_needed-RFC_on_pharmaceutical_drug_prices_/currently_at_ArbCom-2020-04-06T16:21:00.000Z","replies":[{"timestamp":"2020-04-06T16:21:00.000Z","author":"Hipal","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Hipal-2020-04-06T16:21:00.000Z-Areas_where_clarification_and_further_discussion_may_be_needed","replies":[],"displayName":"Hipal/Ronz"},{"timestamp":"2020-04-06T16:21:00.000Z","author":"Hipal","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Hipal-2020-04-06T16:21:00.000Z-Areas_where_clarification_and_further_discussion_may_be_needed-1","replies":[],"displayName":"Hipal/Ronz"},{"timestamp":"2020-04-13T17:42:00.000Z","author":"Hipal","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Hipal-2020-04-13T17:42:00.000Z-Areas_where_clarification_and_further_discussion_may_be_needed","replies":[{"timestamp":"2020-05-03T02:52:00.000Z","author":"Hipal","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Hipal-2020-05-03T02:52:00.000Z-Hipal-2020-04-13T17:42:00.000Z","replies":[],"displayName":"Hipal/Ronz"}],"displayName":"Hipal/Ronz"}]},{"headingLevel":3,"name":"h-Hipal-2020-04-17T20:44:00.000Z","type":"heading","level":0,"id":"h-Scope_of_problem-RFC_on_pharmaceutical_drug_prices_/currently_at_ArbCom-2020-04-17T20:44:00.000Z","replies":[{"timestamp":"2020-04-17T20:44:00.000Z","author":"Hipal","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Hipal-2020-04-17T20:44:00.000Z-Scope_of_problem","replies":[{"timestamp":"2020-04-29T16:48:00.000Z","author":"Hipal","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Hipal-2020-04-29T16:48:00.000Z-Hipal-2020-04-17T20:44:00.000Z","replies":[],"displayName":"Hipal/Ronz"},{"timestamp":"2020-04-29T16:48:00.000Z","author":"Hipal","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Hipal-2020-04-29T16:48:00.000Z-Hipal-2020-04-17T20:44:00.000Z-1","replies":[],"displayName":"Hipal/Ronz"},{"timestamp":"2020-04-29T16:48:00.000Z","author":"Hipal","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Hipal-2020-04-29T16:48:00.000Z-Hipal-2020-04-17T20:44:00.000Z-2","replies":[],"displayName":"Hipal/Ronz"},{"timestamp":"2020-04-29T16:48:00.000Z","author":"Hipal","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Hipal-2020-04-29T16:48:00.000Z-Hipal-2020-04-17T20:44:00.000Z-3","replies":[],"displayName":"Hipal/Ronz"},{"timestamp":"2020-04-29T16:48:00.000Z","author":"Hipal","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Hipal-2020-04-29T16:48:00.000Z-Hipal-2020-04-17T20:44:00.000Z-4","replies":[],"displayName":"Hipal/Ronz"}],"displayName":"Hipal/Ronz"},{"timestamp":"2020-04-23T19:24:00.000Z","author":"Hipal","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Hipal-2020-04-23T19:24:00.000Z-Scope_of_problem","replies":[],"displayName":"Hipal/Ronz"},{"timestamp":"2020-05-03T02:47:00.000Z","author":"Hipal","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Hipal-2020-05-03T02:47:00.000Z-Scope_of_problem","replies":[],"displayName":"Hipal/Ronz"}]},{"headingLevel":3,"name":"h-Hipal-2020-04-20T20:04:00.000Z","type":"heading","level":0,"id":"h-Recent_additions/expansions_of_pricing_information-RFC_on_pharmaceutical_drug_prices_/currently_at_ArbCom-2020-04-20T20:04:00.000Z","replies":[{"timestamp":"2020-04-20T20:04:00.000Z","author":"Hipal","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Hipal-2020-04-20T20:04:00.000Z-Recent_additions/expansions_of_pricing_information","replies":[],"displayName":"Hipal/Ronz"}]}],"uneditableSection":true},{"headingLevel":2,"name":"h-Doug_Weller-2020-05-22T09:43:00.000Z","type":"heading","level":0,"id":"h-List_of_plants_used_in_herbalism-2020-05-22T09:43:00.000Z","replies":[{"timestamp":"2020-05-22T09:43:00.000Z","author":"Doug Weller","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Doug_Weller-2020-05-22T09:43:00.000Z-List_of_plants_used_in_herbalism","replies":[{"timestamp":"2020-05-22T14:54:00.000Z","author":"Alexbrn","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Alexbrn-2020-05-22T14:54:00.000Z-Doug_Weller-2020-05-22T09:43:00.000Z","replies":[{"timestamp":"2020-05-22T16:10:00.000Z","author":"RexxS","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-RexxS-2020-05-22T16:10:00.000Z-Alexbrn-2020-05-22T14:54:00.000Z","replies":[]},{"timestamp":"2020-05-22T16:18:00.000Z","author":"WhatamIdoing","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-WhatamIdoing-2020-05-22T16:18:00.000Z-Alexbrn-2020-05-22T14:54:00.000Z","replies":[]}]}]}],"uneditableSection":true},{"headingLevel":2,"name":"h-Headbomb-2020-05-22T13:50:00.000Z","type":"heading","level":0,"id":"h-Nascent_iodine_(dietary_supplement)#Criticism-2020-05-22T13:50:00.000Z","replies":[{"timestamp":"2020-05-22T13:50:00.000Z","author":"Headbomb","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Headbomb-2020-05-22T13:50:00.000Z-Nascent_iodine_(dietary_supplement)#Criticism","replies":[{"timestamp":"2020-05-22T16:37:00.000Z","author":"WhatamIdoing","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-WhatamIdoing-2020-05-22T16:37:00.000Z-Headbomb-2020-05-22T13:50:00.000Z","replies":[{"timestamp":"2020-05-22T16:49:00.000Z","author":"Headbomb","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Headbomb-2020-05-22T16:49:00.000Z-WhatamIdoing-2020-05-22T16:37:00.000Z","replies":[{"timestamp":"2020-05-22T18:55:00.000Z","author":"WhatamIdoing","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-WhatamIdoing-2020-05-22T18:55:00.000Z-Headbomb-2020-05-22T16:49:00.000Z","replies":[]}]}]}]}],"uneditableSection":true},{"headingLevel":2,"name":"h-Headbomb-2020-05-23T15:52:00.000Z","type":"heading","level":0,"id":"h-Johann_Lahodny-2020-05-23T15:52:00.000Z","replies":[{"timestamp":"2020-05-23T15:52:00.000Z","author":"Headbomb","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Headbomb-2020-05-23T15:52:00.000Z-Johann_Lahodny","replies":[{"timestamp":"2020-05-23T16:17:00.000Z","author":"Alexbrn","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Alexbrn-2020-05-23T16:17:00.000Z-Headbomb-2020-05-23T15:52:00.000Z","replies":[]}]}],"uneditableSection":true},{"headingLevel":2,"name":"h-Viriditas-2020-05-14T21:11:00.000Z","type":"heading","level":0,"id":"h-Patricia_Stallings-2020-05-14T21:11:00.000Z","replies":[{"timestamp":"2020-05-14T21:11:00.000Z","author":"Viriditas","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Viriditas-2020-05-14T21:11:00.000Z-Patricia_Stallings","replies":[{"timestamp":"2020-05-15T20:07:00.000Z","author":"Klbrain","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Klbrain-2020-05-15T20:07:00.000Z-Viriditas-2020-05-14T21:11:00.000Z","replies":[{"timestamp":"2020-05-15T21:59:00.000Z","author":"Viriditas","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Viriditas-2020-05-15T21:59:00.000Z-Klbrain-2020-05-15T20:07:00.000Z","replies":[{"timestamp":"2020-05-16T17:30:00.000Z","author":"WhatamIdoing","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-WhatamIdoing-2020-05-16T17:30:00.000Z-Viriditas-2020-05-15T21:59:00.000Z","replies":[{"timestamp":"2020-05-20T20:29:00.000Z","author":"Viriditas","type":"comment","level":5,"id":"c-Viriditas-2020-05-20T20:29:00.000Z-WhatamIdoing-2020-05-16T17:30:00.000Z","replies":[{"timestamp":"2020-05-24T08:14:00.000Z","author":"Doc James","type":"comment","level":6,"id":"c-Doc_James-2020-05-24T08:14:00.000Z-Viriditas-2020-05-20T20:29:00.000Z","replies":[]}]}]}]}]}]}],"uneditableSection":true},{"headingLevel":2,"name":"h-BrownHairedGirl-2020-05-25T18:36:00.000Z","type":"heading","level":0,"id":"h-Category:Medical_outbreaks_by_country_has_been_nominated_for_renaming-2020-05-25T18:36:00.000Z","replies":[{"timestamp":"2020-05-25T18:36:00.000Z","author":"BrownHairedGirl","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-BrownHairedGirl-2020-05-25T18:36:00.000Z-Category:Medical_outbreaks_by_country_has_been_nominated_for_renaming","replies":[{"timestamp":"2020-05-25T19:22:00.000Z","author":"Ozzie10aaaa","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Ozzie10aaaa-2020-05-25T19:22:00.000Z-BrownHairedGirl-2020-05-25T18:36:00.000Z","replies":[]}]}],"uneditableSection":true},{"headingLevel":2,"name":"h-Berchanhimez-2020-05-25T22:44:00.000Z","type":"heading","level":0,"id":"h-Insulin_pen-2020-05-25T22:44:00.000Z","replies":[{"timestamp":"2020-05-25T22:44:00.000Z","author":"Berchanhimez","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Berchanhimez-2020-05-25T22:44:00.000Z-Insulin_pen","replies":[{"timestamp":"2020-05-25T23:39:00.000Z","author":"Johnbod","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Johnbod-2020-05-25T23:39:00.000Z-Berchanhimez-2020-05-25T22:44:00.000Z","replies":[{"timestamp":"2020-05-26T00:11:00.000Z","author":"Berchanhimez","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Berchanhimez-2020-05-26T00:11:00.000Z-Johnbod-2020-05-25T23:39:00.000Z","replies":[{"timestamp":"2020-05-26T01:18:00.000Z","author":"RexxS","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-RexxS-2020-05-26T01:18:00.000Z-Berchanhimez-2020-05-26T00:11:00.000Z","replies":[{"timestamp":"2020-05-26T01:28:00.000Z","author":"Berchanhimez","type":"comment","level":5,"id":"c-Berchanhimez-2020-05-26T01:28:00.000Z-RexxS-2020-05-26T01:18:00.000Z","replies":[],"displayName":"User"},{"timestamp":"2020-05-26T01:29:00.000Z","author":"RexxS","type":"comment","level":5,"id":"c-RexxS-2020-05-26T01:29:00.000Z-RexxS-2020-05-26T01:18:00.000Z","replies":[]},{"timestamp":"2020-05-26T01:50:00.000Z","author":"Berchanhimez","type":"comment","level":5,"id":"c-Berchanhimez-2020-05-26T01:50:00.000Z-RexxS-2020-05-26T01:18:00.000Z","replies":[],"displayName":"User"}]}],"displayName":"User"}]}],"displayName":"User"}],"uneditableSection":true},{"headingLevel":2,"name":"h-BrownHairedGirl-2020-05-26T09:37:00.000Z","type":"heading","level":0,"id":"h-Category:Epidemics_has_been_nominated_for_merging_to_Category:Disease_outbreaks,-2020-05-26T09:37:00.000Z","replies":[{"timestamp":"2020-05-26T09:37:00.000Z","author":"BrownHairedGirl","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-BrownHairedGirl-2020-05-26T09:37:00.000Z-Category:Epidemics_has_been_nominated_for_merging_to_Category:Disease_outbreaks,","replies":[{"timestamp":"2020-05-26T12:34:00.000Z","author":"Ozzie10aaaa","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Ozzie10aaaa-2020-05-26T12:34:00.000Z-BrownHairedGirl-2020-05-26T09:37:00.000Z","replies":[]}]}],"uneditableSection":true}],"wgPageParseReport":{"discussiontools":{"limitreport-timeusage":"0.148"},"limitreport":{"cputime":"0.940","walltime":"1.178","ppvisitednodes":{"value":3962,"limit":1000000},"postexpandincludesize":{"value":60210,"limit":2097152},"templateargumentsize":{"value":7736,"limit":2097152},"expansiondepth":{"value":14,"limit":100},"expensivefunctioncount":{"value":16,"limit":500},"unstrip-depth":{"value":1,"limit":20},"unstrip-size":{"value":54572,"limit":5000000},"entityaccesscount":{"value":0,"limit":400},"timingprofile":["100.00% 610.467 1 -total"," 43.76% 267.140 6 Template:Reflist"," 30.48% 186.068 2 Template:Reflist-talk"," 26.43% 161.350 2 Template:Cite_news"," 19.10% 116.611 1 Template:Aan"," 9.31% 56.847 3 Template:Reflist_talk"," 7.98% 48.713 5 Template:Cite_journal"," 6.69% 40.854 2 Template:Is_redirect"," 3.90% 23.788 6 Template:Tq"," 3.49% 21.309 18 Template:Encodefirst"]},"scribunto":{"limitreport-timeusage":{"value":"0.287","limit":"10.000"},"limitreport-memusage":{"value":5672170,"limit":52428800}},"cachereport":{"origin":"mw-web.codfw.main-7fc47fc68d-97t9b","timestamp":"20241128185635","ttl":864000,"transientcontent":true}}});});</script> </body> </html>