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href="#Draft:Post-resignation_violence_against_Hindus_in_Bangladesh,_2024"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">3</span> <span>Draft:Post-resignation violence against Hindus in Bangladesh, 2024</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">3 comments</span> <ul id="toc-Draft:Post-resignation_violence_against_Hindus_in_Bangladesh,_2024-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Canines_Cushing-syndrome" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Canines_Cushing-syndrome"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">4</span> <span>Canines Cushing-syndrome</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">2 comments</span> <ul id="toc-Canines_Cushing-syndrome-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Happy_First_Edit_Day!" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Happy_First_Edit_Day!"> <div 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class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#My_style_of_writing"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">7</span> <span>My style of writing</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">4 comments</span> <ul id="toc-My_style_of_writing-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Orders_of_magnitude" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Orders_of_magnitude"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">8</span> <span>Orders of magnitude</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">2 comments</span> <ul id="toc-Orders_of_magnitude-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Deleting_page_Baron_of_the_Bachuil" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Deleting_page_Baron_of_the_Bachuil"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">9</span> <span>Deleting page Baron of the Bachuil</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">10 comments</span> <ul id="toc-Deleting_page_Baron_of_the_Bachuil-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/List_of_windmills_in_Friesland_(T–V)" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/List_of_windmills_in_Friesland_(T–V)"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">10</span> <span>Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of windmills in Friesland (T–V)</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">3 comments</span> <ul id="toc-Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/List_of_windmills_in_Friesland_(T–V)-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-New_pages_patrol_September_2024_Backlog_drive" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#New_pages_patrol_September_2024_Backlog_drive"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">11</span> <span>New pages patrol September 2024 Backlog drive</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">1 comment</span> <ul id="toc-New_pages_patrol_September_2024_Backlog_drive-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Disambiguation_link_notification_for_September_2" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Disambiguation_link_notification_for_September_2"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">12</span> <span>Disambiguation link notification for September 2</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">1 comment</span> <ul id="toc-Disambiguation_link_notification_for_September_2-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Missing_something" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Missing_something"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">13</span> <span>Missing something</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">2 comments</span> <ul id="toc-Missing_something-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-olive_branch" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#olive_branch"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">14</span> <span>olive branch</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">2 comments</span> <ul id="toc-olive_branch-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-A_barnstar_for_you!" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#A_barnstar_for_you!"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">15</span> <span>A barnstar for you!</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">1 comment</span> <ul id="toc-A_barnstar_for_you!-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Hostility_on_Baidwan_sept_of_Jat-Sikh_lineage" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Hostility_on_Baidwan_sept_of_Jat-Sikh_lineage"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">16</span> <span>Hostility on Baidwan sept of Jat-Sikh lineage</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">6 comments</span> <ul id="toc-Hostility_on_Baidwan_sept_of_Jat-Sikh_lineage-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Unreliable_Sources-_Appendix_N" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Unreliable_Sources-_Appendix_N"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">17</span> <span>Unreliable Sources- Appendix N</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">5 comments</span> <ul id="toc-Unreliable_Sources-_Appendix_N-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Question_on_reliability_of_a_certain_source" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Question_on_reliability_of_a_certain_source"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">18</span> <span>Question on reliability of a certain source</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">9 comments</span> <ul id="toc-Question_on_reliability_of_a_certain_source-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Declined_speedy_deletion" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Declined_speedy_deletion"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">19</span> <span>Declined speedy deletion</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">2 comments</span> <ul id="toc-Declined_speedy_deletion-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-De-PRODing_2015_World_Youth_Championships_in_Athletics_–_Boys'_high_jump" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#De-PRODing_2015_World_Youth_Championships_in_Athletics_–_Boys'_high_jump"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">20</span> <span>De-PRODing 2015 World Youth Championships in Athletics – Boys' high jump</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">3 comments</span> <ul id="toc-De-PRODing_2015_World_Youth_Championships_in_Athletics_–_Boys'_high_jump-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Speedy_deletion_nomination_of_Category:1342_in_art" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Speedy_deletion_nomination_of_Category:1342_in_art"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">21</span> <span>Speedy deletion nomination of Category:1342 in art</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">1 comment</span> <ul id="toc-Speedy_deletion_nomination_of_Category:1342_in_art-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Speedy_deletion_nomination_of_Category:1344_in_art" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Speedy_deletion_nomination_of_Category:1344_in_art"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">22</span> <span>Speedy deletion nomination of Category:1344 in art</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">1 comment</span> <ul id="toc-Speedy_deletion_nomination_of_Category:1344_in_art-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Speedy_deletion_nomination_of_Category:1414_in_art" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Speedy_deletion_nomination_of_Category:1414_in_art"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">23</span> <span>Speedy deletion nomination of Category:1414 in art</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">1 comment</span> <ul id="toc-Speedy_deletion_nomination_of_Category:1414_in_art-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-My_formal_apology_regarding_something_you_don't_care_about_(or_even_remember)" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#My_formal_apology_regarding_something_you_don't_care_about_(or_even_remember)"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">24</span> <span>My formal apology regarding something you don't care about (or even remember)</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">2 comments</span> <ul id="toc-My_formal_apology_regarding_something_you_don't_care_about_(or_even_remember)-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-English_Qaballa" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#English_Qaballa"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">25</span> <span>English Qaballa</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">2 comments</span> <ul id="toc-English_Qaballa-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Speedy_deletion_nomination_of_Category:2010_establishments_in_Saint_Vincent_and_the_Grenadines" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Speedy_deletion_nomination_of_Category:2010_establishments_in_Saint_Vincent_and_the_Grenadines"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">26</span> <span>Speedy deletion nomination of Category:2010 establishments in Saint Vincent and the Grenadines</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">1 comment</span> <ul id="toc-Speedy_deletion_nomination_of_Category:2010_establishments_in_Saint_Vincent_and_the_Grenadines-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Invitation_to_participate_in_a_research" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Invitation_to_participate_in_a_research"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">27</span> <span>Invitation to participate in a research</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">11 comments</span> <ul id="toc-Invitation_to_participate_in_a_research-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Speedy_deletion_nomination_of_Dawn's_Landscape_XL" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Speedy_deletion_nomination_of_Dawn's_Landscape_XL"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">28</span> <span>Speedy deletion nomination of Dawn's Landscape XL</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">1 comment</span> <ul id="toc-Speedy_deletion_nomination_of_Dawn's_Landscape_XL-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Resubmitting_drafts" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Resubmitting_drafts"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">29</span> <span>Resubmitting drafts</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">2 comments</span> <ul id="toc-Resubmitting_drafts-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Upcoming_expiry_of_your_ipblock-exempt_right" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Upcoming_expiry_of_your_ipblock-exempt_right"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">30</span> <span>Upcoming expiry of your ipblock-exempt right</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">1 comment</span> <ul id="toc-Upcoming_expiry_of_your_ipblock-exempt_right-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-@Fram_taking_up_the_battle_vs_SafariScribe" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#@Fram_taking_up_the_battle_vs_SafariScribe"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">31</span> <span>@Fram taking up the battle vs SafariScribe</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">3 comments</span> <ul id="toc-@Fram_taking_up_the_battle_vs_SafariScribe-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Capitalization_campaign?" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Capitalization_campaign?"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">32</span> <span>Capitalization campaign?</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">9 comments</span> <ul id="toc-Capitalization_campaign?-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Let_me_just_add_the_sources,_what_kind_of_vandalising_are_you_talking_about?" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Let_me_just_add_the_sources,_what_kind_of_vandalising_are_you_talking_about?"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">33</span> <span>Let me just add the sources, what kind of vandalising are you talking about?</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">20 comments</span> <ul id="toc-Let_me_just_add_the_sources,_what_kind_of_vandalising_are_you_talking_about?-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Re:quotes_in_question_to_Primefac" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Re:quotes_in_question_to_Primefac"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">34</span> <span>Re:quotes in question to Primefac</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">2 comments</span> <ul id="toc-Re:quotes_in_question_to_Primefac-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Jorge_Kurchan" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Jorge_Kurchan"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">35</span> <span>Jorge Kurchan</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">2 comments</span> <ul id="toc-Jorge_Kurchan-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Disambiguation_link_notification_for_November_14" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Disambiguation_link_notification_for_November_14"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">36</span> <span>Disambiguation link notification for November 14</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">1 comment</span> <ul id="toc-Disambiguation_link_notification_for_November_14-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Talk:Qaboos_bin_Said." class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Talk:Qaboos_bin_Said."> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">37</span> <span>Talk:Qaboos bin Said.</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">3 comments</span> <ul id="toc-Talk:Qaboos_bin_Said.-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-ArbCom_2024_Elections_voter_message" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#ArbCom_2024_Elections_voter_message"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">38</span> <span>ArbCom 2024 Elections voter message</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">1 comment</span> <ul id="toc-ArbCom_2024_Elections_voter_message-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-African_English_and_AI_(ANI)" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#African_English_and_AI_(ANI)"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">39</span> <span>African English and AI (ANI)</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">3 comments</span> <ul id="toc-African_English_and_AI_(ANI)-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Regarding_Patsho" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Regarding_Patsho"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">40</span> <span>Regarding Patsho</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">14 comments</span> <ul id="toc-Regarding_Patsho-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-AfD" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#AfD"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">41</span> <span>AfD</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">2 comments</span> <ul id="toc-AfD-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-A_cup_of_tea_for_you!" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#A_cup_of_tea_for_you!"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">42</span> <span>A cup of tea for you!</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">2 comments</span> <ul id="toc-A_cup_of_tea_for_you!-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Alon_Mindlin" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Alon_Mindlin"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">43</span> <span>Alon Mindlin</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">2 comments</span> <ul id="toc-Alon_Mindlin-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-ANI" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#ANI"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">44</span> <span>ANI</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">9 comments</span> <ul id="toc-ANI-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-You've_got_mail" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#You've_got_mail"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">45</span> <span>You've got mail</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">1 comment</span> <ul id="toc-You've_got_mail-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Speedy_deletion_nomination_of_Category:1962_establishments_in_Montenegro" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Speedy_deletion_nomination_of_Category:1962_establishments_in_Montenegro"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">46</span> <span>Speedy deletion nomination of Category:1962 establishments in Montenegro</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">1 comment</span> <ul id="toc-Speedy_deletion_nomination_of_Category:1962_establishments_in_Montenegro-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-The_recent_drought_page_split_suggestions" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#The_recent_drought_page_split_suggestions"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">47</span> <span>The recent drought page split suggestions</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">2 comments</span> <ul id="toc-The_recent_drought_page_split_suggestions-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Accidental_recreation_of_Big_and_medium_cats_in_Sindh" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Accidental_recreation_of_Big_and_medium_cats_in_Sindh"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">48</span> <span>Accidental recreation of Big and medium cats in Sindh</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">3 comments</span> <ul id="toc-Accidental_recreation_of_Big_and_medium_cats_in_Sindh-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Speedy_deletion_declined:_Amar_Hoskote" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Speedy_deletion_declined:_Amar_Hoskote"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">49</span> <span>Speedy deletion declined: Amar Hoskote</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">1 comment</span> <ul id="toc-Speedy_deletion_declined:_Amar_Hoskote-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> </ul> </div> </div> </nav> </div> </div> <div class="mw-content-container"> <main id="content" class="mw-body"> <header class="mw-body-header vector-page-titlebar"> <nav aria-label="Contents" class="vector-toc-landmark"> <div id="vector-page-titlebar-toc" class="vector-dropdown vector-page-titlebar-toc vector-button-flush-left" > <input type="checkbox" id="vector-page-titlebar-toc-checkbox" role="button" aria-haspopup="true" data-event-name="ui.dropdown-vector-page-titlebar-toc" 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href="/wiki/User_talk:Fram/Archive_11" title="User talk:Fram/Archive 11">March - April 2008</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Fram/Archive_12" title="User talk:Fram/Archive 12">May - June 2008</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Fram/Archive_13" title="User talk:Fram/Archive 13">July - August 2008</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Fram/Archive_14" title="User talk:Fram/Archive 14">September 2008</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Fram/Archive_15" title="User talk:Fram/Archive 15">October 2008</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Fram/Archive_16" title="User talk:Fram/Archive 16">November 2008 - January 2009</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Fram/Archive_17" title="User talk:Fram/Archive 17">February - March 2009</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Fram/Archive_18" title="User talk:Fram/Archive 18">April - August 2009</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Fram/Archive_19" title="User talk:Fram/Archive 19">September 2009 - February 2010</a></li> <li><a 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<li><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Fram/Archive_29" title="User talk:Fram/Archive 29">June - November 2013</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Fram/Archive_30" title="User talk:Fram/Archive 30">December 2013 - April 2014</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Fram/Archive_31" title="User talk:Fram/Archive 31">May - August 2014</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Fram/Archive_32" title="User talk:Fram/Archive 32">September - November 2014</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Fram/Archive_33" title="User talk:Fram/Archive 33">December 2014 - December 2015</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Fram/Archive_34" title="User talk:Fram/Archive 34">January - August 2016</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Fram/Archive_35" title="User talk:Fram/Archive 35">September 2016 - August 2017</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Fram/Archive_36" title="User talk:Fram/Archive 36">September 2017 - June 2019</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Fram/Archive_37" title="User talk:Fram/Archive 37">July 2019 - December 2020</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Fram/Archive_38" title="User talk:Fram/Archive 38">January 2021 - August 2021</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Fram/Archive_39" title="User talk:Fram/Archive 39">August 2021 - April 2022</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Fram/Archive_40" title="User talk:Fram/Archive 40">April 2022 - January 2023</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Fram/Archive_41" title="User talk:Fram/Archive 41">February - December 2023</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Fram/Archive_42" title="User talk:Fram/Archive 42">January - July 2024</a></li></ul> </td> </tr><tr><td style="padding-bottom:11px"><div class="mw-inputbox-centered" style=""><form name="searchbox" class="searchbox mw-inputbox-form" action="/wiki/Special:Search"><div class="cdx-text-input"><input class="mw-inputbox-input mw-searchInput searchboxInput cdx-text-input__input" name="search" placeholder="" size="22" dir="ltr"/></div><input type="hidden" value="User talk:Fram/" name="prefix"/><br/><input type="submit" name="fulltext" value="Search archives" class="cdx-button"/><input type="hidden" value="Search" name="fulltext"/></form></div> </td></tr> </tbody></table> <meta property="mw:PageProp/toc"/> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="List_of_American_suffragists_by_state" data-mw-thread-id="h-List_of_American_suffragists_by_state-20240801201400"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-List_of_American_suffragists_by_state-20240801201400"></span>List of American suffragists by state<span data-mw-comment-end="h-List_of_American_suffragists_by_state-20240801201400"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Fram&action=edit&section=1" title="Edit section: List of American suffragists by state"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Megalibrarygirl-20240801201400-List_of_American_suffragists_by_state"></span>Hi Fram! I just reverted one of your edits and will be reverting a few more. I appreciate you putting the smaller lists inline for the list of American suffragists by state, but it's not going to work in the long run. I am doing a long-term project where I am listing all suffragists by either state or national level. Many of the suffragists on the national page need to go to the smaller pages. These lists, like the one for NY will get very long very quickly. Please leave individual state lists as stand-alone. Thank you! :) <a href="/wiki/User:Megalibrarygirl" title="User:Megalibrarygirl">Megalibrarygirl</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Megalibrarygirl" title="User talk:Megalibrarygirl">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Fram#c-Megalibrarygirl-20240801201400-List_of_American_suffragists_by_state" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:14, 1 August 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Megalibrarygirl-20240801201400-List_of_American_suffragists_by_state"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Megalibrarygirl-20240801201400-List_of_American_suffragists_by_state"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Fram-20240802071200-Megalibrarygirl-20240801201400"></span>The right thing would then have been to split them again <i>in the long run</i>, at the time when the length of a state list overwhelmed the general page. Not what you did now. I'll not revert as it is rather tiring to go against so insisting on the need for separate pages for some reason, but it really is not the right way to deal with these things. Please don't create other one-person lists. <a href="/wiki/User:Fram" class="mw-redirect" title="User:Fram">Fram</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Fram#c-Fram-20240802071200-Megalibrarygirl-20240801201400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">07:12, 2 August 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Fram-20240802071200-Megalibrarygirl-20240801201400"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Fram-20240802071200-Megalibrarygirl-20240801201400"></span></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="CfD_nomination_at_Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2024_August_3_§_Early_Austria_disestablishment_categories" data-mw-thread-id="h-CfD_nomination_at_Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2024_August_3_§_Early-20240803185700"><span id="CfD_nomination_at_Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion.2FLog.2F2024_August_3_.C2.A7_Early_Austria_disestablishment_categories"></span><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-CfD_nomination_at_Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2024_August_3_§_Early-20240803185700"></span>CfD nomination at <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2024_August_3#Early_Austria_disestablishment_categories" title="Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2024 August 3">Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2024 August 3 § Early Austria disestablishment categories</a><span data-mw-comment-end="h-CfD_nomination_at_Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2024_August_3_§_Early-20240803185700"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Fram&action=edit&section=2" title="Edit section: CfD nomination at Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2024 August 3 § Early Austria disestablishment categories"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <div class="floatleft" style="margin-bottom:0"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-HouseBlaster-20240803185700-CfD_nomination_at_Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2024_August_3_§_Early"></span><span typeof="mw:File"><span><img alt="" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/5/5f/Ambox_warning_orange.svg/48px-Ambox_warning_orange.svg.png" decoding="async" width="48" height="41" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/5/5f/Ambox_warning_orange.svg/72px-Ambox_warning_orange.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/5/5f/Ambox_warning_orange.svg/96px-Ambox_warning_orange.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="378" data-file-height="326"/></span></span></div><p>A category or categories you have created have been nominated for possible deletion, merging, or renaming. A discussion is taking place to decide whether this proposal complies with the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Categorization" title="Wikipedia:Categorization">categorization</a> guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at <b><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2024_August_3#Early_Austria_disestablishment_categories" title="Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2024 August 3">Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2024 August 3 § Early Austria disestablishment categories</a></b> on the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion" title="Wikipedia:Categories for discussion">categories for discussion</a> page. Thank you. <b><a href="/wiki/User:HouseBlaster" title="User:HouseBlaster">House</a><a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/HouseBlaster" title="Special:Contributions/HouseBlaster"><span style="color:#7D066B;">Blaster</span></a></b> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:HouseBlaster" title="User talk:HouseBlaster">talk</a> · he/they) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Fram#c-HouseBlaster-20240803185700-CfD_nomination_at_Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2024_August_3_§_Early" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:57, 3 August 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-HouseBlaster-20240803185700-CfD_nomination_at_Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2024_August_3_§_Early"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-HouseBlaster-20240803185700-CfD_nomination_at_Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2024_August_3_§_Early"></span> </p><div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Draft:Post-resignation_violence_against_Hindus_in_Bangladesh,_2024" data-mw-thread-id="h-Draft:Post-resignation_violence_against_Hindus_in_Bangladesh,_2024-20240806162100"><span id="Draft:Post-resignation_violence_against_Hindus_in_Bangladesh.2C_2024"></span><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Draft:Post-resignation_violence_against_Hindus_in_Bangladesh,_2024-20240806162100"></span>Draft:Post-resignation violence against Hindus in Bangladesh, 2024<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Draft:Post-resignation_violence_against_Hindus_in_Bangladesh,_2024-20240806162100"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Fram&action=edit&section=3" title="Edit section: Draft:Post-resignation violence against Hindus in Bangladesh, 2024"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><a href="/wiki/User:ZeetBaralWiki" class="mw-redirect" title="User:ZeetBaralWiki"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-ZeetBaralWiki-20240806162100-Draft:Post-resignation_violence_against_Hindus_in_Bangladesh,_2024"></span>ZeetBaralWiki</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:ZeetBaralWiki" class="mw-redirect" title="User talk:ZeetBaralWiki">talk</a>) 16:21, 6 August 2024 (UTC) Hi, Fram. You told 'While this topic deserves an article, it shouldn't be this one. A blatantly one-sided, very badly sourced instead of a neutral, factual one where the sources actually reference the paragraphs they follow instead of being seemingly randomly inserted' I have checked the references. There are many mistakes in them. I am removing those and inserting the correct references. How the government is viewing the matter, what steps they have taken, what international organizations and countries have commented—I can mention these with references. Also, I can include the opinions of those who are attacking. I think that will make it impartial and unbiased. Will I proceed with the article - <a href="/w/index.php?title=Draft:Post-resignation_violence_against_Hindus_in_Bangladesh,_2024&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Draft:Post-resignation violence against Hindus in Bangladesh, 2024 (page does not exist)">Post-resignation violence against Hindus in Bangladesh, 2024</a>? <small class="autosigned">— Preceding <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Signatures" title="Wikipedia:Signatures">unsigned</a> comment added by <a href="/wiki/User:ZeetBaralWiki" class="mw-redirect" title="User:ZeetBaralWiki">ZeetBaralWiki</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:ZeetBaralWiki#top" class="mw-redirect" title="User talk:ZeetBaralWiki">talk</a> • <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/ZeetBaralWiki" title="Special:Contributions/ZeetBaralWiki">contribs</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Fram#c-ZeetBaralWiki-20240806162100-Draft:Post-resignation_violence_against_Hindus_in_Bangladesh,_2024" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:31, 6 August 2024 (UTC)</a></small><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-ZeetBaralWiki-20240806162100-Draft:Post-resignation_violence_against_Hindus_in_Bangladesh,_2024"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-ZeetBaralWiki-20240806162100-Draft:Post-resignation_violence_against_Hindus_in_Bangladesh,_2024"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Fram-20240807063400-ZeetBaralWiki-20240806162100"></span>You are copying sentences and paragraphs straight from the sources. This is a copyright violation and not allowed on Wikipedia. You need to write the article in your own words, summarizing the sources. <a href="/wiki/User:Fram" class="mw-redirect" title="User:Fram">Fram</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Fram#c-Fram-20240807063400-ZeetBaralWiki-20240806162100" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">06:34, 7 August 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Fram-20240807063400-ZeetBaralWiki-20240806162100"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Fram-20240807063400-ZeetBaralWiki-20240806162100"></span> <dl><dd><a href="/wiki/User:ZeetBaralWiki" class="mw-redirect" title="User:ZeetBaralWiki"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Cullen328-20240807065400-Fram-20240807063400"></span>ZeetBaralWiki</a>, this is a very important topic that needs to be covered properly. If you engage in copyright violations or any other significant policy violations, that will only delay the coverage of this topic on Wikipedia. So please be careful to follow Wikipedia's <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:PAG" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:PAG">policies and guidelines</a>. <a href="/wiki/User:Cullen328" title="User:Cullen328">Cullen328</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Cullen328" title="User talk:Cullen328">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Fram#c-Cullen328-20240807065400-Fram-20240807063400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">06:54, 7 August 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Cullen328-20240807065400-Fram-20240807063400"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Cullen328-20240807065400-Fram-20240807063400"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Canines_Cushing-syndrome" data-mw-thread-id="h-Canines_Cushing-syndrome-20240814190500"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Canines_Cushing-syndrome-20240814190500"></span>Canines Cushing-syndrome<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Canines_Cushing-syndrome-20240814190500"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Fram&action=edit&section=4" title="Edit section: Canines Cushing-syndrome"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Traumnovelle-20240814190500-Canines_Cushing-syndrome"></span>The reason for that mess of a title is that the editor was paid to use AI to translate an article with 0 incentive to anything more than get it past AfC. <a href="/wiki/User:Traumnovelle" title="User:Traumnovelle">Traumnovelle</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Traumnovelle" title="User talk:Traumnovelle">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Fram#c-Traumnovelle-20240814190500-Canines_Cushing-syndrome" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:05, 14 August 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Traumnovelle-20240814190500-Canines_Cushing-syndrome"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Traumnovelle-20240814190500-Canines_Cushing-syndrome"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Fram-20240816070700-Traumnovelle-20240814190500"></span>Ah yes, I know of that problematic project, recently I have taken one of their creations to AfD for being unscientific, outdated, and completely unchecked by the translator. Sounds like easy money for them! <a href="/wiki/User:Fram" class="mw-redirect" title="User:Fram">Fram</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Fram#c-Fram-20240816070700-Traumnovelle-20240814190500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">07:07, 16 August 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Fram-20240816070700-Traumnovelle-20240814190500"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Fram-20240816070700-Traumnovelle-20240814190500"></span></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Happy_First_Edit_Day!" data-mw-thread-id="h-Happy_First_Edit_Day!-20240818013700"><span id="Happy_First_Edit_Day.21"></span><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Happy_First_Edit_Day!-20240818013700"></span>Happy First Edit Day!<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Happy_First_Edit_Day!-20240818013700"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Fram&action=edit&section=5" title="Edit section: Happy First Edit Day!"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-The_Herald-20240818013700-Happy_First_Edit_Day!"></span><style data-mw-deduplicate="TemplateStyles:r1238436933">.mw-parser-output .ombox{margin:4px 0;border-collapse:collapse;border:1px solid #a2a9b1;background-color:var(--background-color-neutral-subtle,#f8f9fa);box-sizing:border-box;color:var(--color-base,#202122)}.mw-parser-output .ombox.mbox-small{font-size:88%;line-height:1.25em}.mw-parser-output .ombox-speedy{border:2px solid #b32424;background-color:#fee7e6}.mw-parser-output .ombox-delete{border:2px solid #b32424}.mw-parser-output .ombox-content{border:1px solid #f28500}.mw-parser-output .ombox-style{border:1px solid #fc3}.mw-parser-output .ombox-move{border:1px solid #9932cc}.mw-parser-output .ombox-protection{border:2px solid #a2a9b1}.mw-parser-output .ombox .mbox-text{border:none;padding:0.25em 0.9em;width:100%}.mw-parser-output .ombox .mbox-image{border:none;padding:2px 0 2px 0.9em;text-align:center}.mw-parser-output .ombox .mbox-imageright{border:none;padding:2px 0.9em 2px 0;text-align:center}.mw-parser-output .ombox .mbox-empty-cell{border:none;padding:0;width:1px}.mw-parser-output .ombox .mbox-invalid-type{text-align:center}@media(min-width:720px){.mw-parser-output .ombox{margin:4px 10%}.mw-parser-output .ombox.mbox-small{clear:right;float:right;margin:4px 0 4px 1em;width:238px}}body.skin--responsive .mw-parser-output table.ombox img{max-width:none!important}@media screen{html.skin-theme-clientpref-night .mw-parser-output .ombox-speedy{background-color:#310402}}@media screen and (prefers-color-scheme:dark){html.skin-theme-clientpref-os .mw-parser-output .ombox-speedy{background-color:#310402}}</style><table class="box-First_Edit_Day plainlinks ombox ombox-notice" role="presentation" style="border: 2px solid CornflowerBlue; background: linear-gradient(to left, #c6ffdd, #fbd786, LightPink);"><tbody><tr><td class="mbox-image"><span typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Twemoji2_1f5d3.svg" class="mw-file-description"><img alt="Calendar emoji" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/22/Twemoji2_1f5d3.svg/50px-Twemoji2_1f5d3.svg.png" decoding="async" width="50" height="50" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/22/Twemoji2_1f5d3.svg/75px-Twemoji2_1f5d3.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/22/Twemoji2_1f5d3.svg/100px-Twemoji2_1f5d3.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="512" data-file-height="512"/></a></span></td><td class="mbox-text" style="padding: 0.75em; text-align:center;"><big><b>Happy First Edit Day!</b></big><br/>Hi Fram! On behalf of the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Birthday_Committee" title="Wikipedia:Birthday Committee">Birthday Committee</a>, I'd like to wish you a very happy anniversary of the day you made <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Contributions/Fram&dir=prev&limit=1">your first edit</a> and became a Wikipedian! <a href="/wiki/User:The_Herald" class="mw-redirect" title="User:The Herald">The Herald (Benison)</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:The_Herald" class="mw-redirect" title="User talk:The Herald">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Fram#c-The_Herald-20240818013700-Happy_First_Edit_Day!" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:37, 18 August 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-The_Herald-20240818013700-Happy_First_Edit_Day!"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-The_Herald-20240818013700-Happy_First_Edit_Day!"></span></td><td class="mbox-imageright"><span typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Twemoji2_1f389.svg" class="mw-file-description"><img alt="Party popper emoji" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/95/Twemoji2_1f389.svg/50px-Twemoji2_1f389.svg.png" decoding="async" width="50" height="50" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/95/Twemoji2_1f389.svg/75px-Twemoji2_1f389.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/95/Twemoji2_1f389.svg/100px-Twemoji2_1f389.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="512" data-file-height="512"/></a></span></td></tr></tbody></table> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Speedy_deletion_nomination_of_Category:1850s_disestablishments_in_the_German_Confederation" data-mw-thread-id="h-Speedy_deletion_nomination_of_Category:1850s_disestablishments_in_the_German_Con-20240819070800"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Speedy_deletion_nomination_of_Category:1850s_disestablishments_in_the_German_Con-20240819070800"></span><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Criteria_for_speedy_deletion" title="Wikipedia:Criteria for speedy deletion">Speedy deletion</a> nomination of <a href="/wiki/Category:1850s_disestablishments_in_the_German_Confederation" title="Category:1850s disestablishments in the German Confederation">Category:1850s disestablishments in the German Confederation</a><span data-mw-comment-end="h-Speedy_deletion_nomination_of_Category:1850s_disestablishments_in_the_German_Con-20240819070800"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Fram&action=edit&section=6" title="Edit section: Speedy deletion nomination of Category:1850s disestablishments in the German Confederation"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Liz-20240819070800-Speedy_deletion_nomination_of_Category:1850s_disestablishments_in_the_German_Con"></span><figure class="mw-halign-left" typeof="mw:File"><span><img alt="" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/1/15/Ambox_warning_pn.svg/48px-Ambox_warning_pn.svg.png" decoding="async" width="48" height="42" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/1/15/Ambox_warning_pn.svg/72px-Ambox_warning_pn.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/1/15/Ambox_warning_pn.svg/96px-Ambox_warning_pn.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="512" data-file-height="445"/></span><figcaption></figcaption></figure> <p>A tag has been placed on <a href="/wiki/Category:1850s_disestablishments_in_the_German_Confederation" title="Category:1850s disestablishments in the German Confederation">Category:1850s disestablishments in the German Confederation</a> indicating that it is currently empty, and is not a <a href="/wiki/Category:Disambiguation_categories" title="Category:Disambiguation categories">disambiguation category</a>, a <a href="/wiki/Category:Wikipedia_soft_redirected_categories" title="Category:Wikipedia soft redirected categories">category redirect</a>, a <a href="/wiki/Category:Wikipedia_featured_topics_categories" title="Category:Wikipedia featured topics categories">featured topics category</a>, under discussion at <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion" title="Wikipedia:Categories for discussion">Categories for discussion</a>, or a project category that by its nature may become empty on occasion. If it remains empty for seven days or more, it may be deleted under <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:CSD#C1" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:CSD">section C1 of the criteria for speedy deletion</a>. </p><p>If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason you may <b>contest the nomination</b> by <a href="/wiki/Category:1850s_disestablishments_in_the_German_Confederation" title="Category:1850s disestablishments in the German Confederation">visiting the page</a> and removing the speedy deletion tag. <span style="font-family:Papyrus; color:#800080;"><a href="/wiki/User:Liz" title="User:Liz"><i><b>L</b></i>iz</a></span> <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;"><a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Liz" title="Special:Contributions/Liz"><i><b>Read!</b></i></a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Liz" title="User talk:Liz"><i><b>Talk!</b></i></a></sup> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Fram#c-Liz-20240819070800-Speedy_deletion_nomination_of_Category:1850s_disestablishments_in_the_German_Con" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">07:08, 19 August 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Liz-20240819070800-Speedy_deletion_nomination_of_Category:1850s_disestablishments_in_the_German_Con"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Liz-20240819070800-Speedy_deletion_nomination_of_Category:1850s_disestablishments_in_the_German_Con"></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="My_style_of_writing" data-mw-thread-id="h-My_style_of_writing-20240819170600"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-My_style_of_writing-20240819170600"></span>My style of writing<span data-mw-comment-end="h-My_style_of_writing-20240819170600"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Fram&action=edit&section=7" title="Edit section: My style of writing"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Abishe-20240819170600-My_style_of_writing"></span>Hi Fram, I just dropped you a lengthy explanation on why I use technical complex wordings to exaggerate the content articles as I also think of the fact that it is paramount important for me to convert the stub class article into a start class article by capitalizing on my strength in the form of writing. I also take inspiration from English literature subject where I have learnt the basic literary techniques like metaphors, similes, euphemism, paradox and I also take note of some of the prominent writers works such as <a href="/wiki/Maya_Angelou" title="Maya Angelou">Maya Angelou</a>, <a href="/wiki/Cat_Stevens" title="Cat Stevens">Cat Stevens</a>, <a href="/wiki/Edward_Lowbury" title="Edward Lowbury">Edward Lowbury</a>, <a href="/wiki/Gabriel_Okara" title="Gabriel Okara">Gabriel Okara</a>, <a href="/wiki/Jacques_Prevert" class="mw-redirect" title="Jacques Prevert">Jacques Prevert</a>, <a href="/wiki/Gabriela_Mistral" title="Gabriela Mistral">Gabriela Mistral</a>, <a href="/wiki/Yasmine_Gooneratne" title="Yasmine Gooneratne">Yasmine Gooneratne</a>, <a href="/wiki/Sonali_Deraniyagala" title="Sonali Deraniyagala">Sonali Deraniyagala</a> and <a href="/wiki/Wis%C5%82awa_Szymborska" title="Wisława Szymborska">Wisława Szymborska</a> on how they captured the plight of daily life situations through their exceptional writing framework. In addition to listening to cricket commentary, I have also given so much emphasis to the prominent notable literary works of the some of the highly talented writers as I have mentioned earlier. I also ended up writing an article about <a href="/wiki/Barnewall_Two-way_Model" title="Barnewall Two-way Model">Barnewall Two-way Model</a> few months ago which I in fact learnt as part of my <a href="/wiki/Behavioral_finance" class="mw-redirect" title="Behavioral finance">behavioral finance</a> module in Business Management. I literally referred to all the notes and tutes and compiled a fresh article right from the scratch and presented it a one step destination so that it can be used as an education tool by others to get a basic idea of what that model is all about. <a href="/wiki/User:Abishe" title="User:Abishe">Abishe</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Abishe" title="User talk:Abishe">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Fram#c-Abishe-20240819170600-My_style_of_writing" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:06, 19 August 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Abishe-20240819170600-My_style_of_writing"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Abishe-20240819170600-My_style_of_writing"></span> </p> <dl><dd><small><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Serial_Number_54129-20240819175900-Abishe-20240819170600"></span>I think, in terms of technique, you might want to think about <i><a href="/wiki/Finnegans_Wake" title="Finnegans Wake">Finnegans Wake</a></i> :D <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Serial_Number_54129" title="User talk:Serial Number 54129"><b style="color:#7a0427;">SerialNumber</b></a><i><a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Serial_Number_54129" title="Special:Contributions/Serial Number 54129"><b style="color:#17662c;">54129</b></a></i> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Fram#c-Serial_Number_54129-20240819175900-Abishe-20240819170600" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:59, 19 August 2024 (UTC)</a></small><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Serial_Number_54129-20240819175900-Abishe-20240819170600"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Serial_Number_54129-20240819175900-Abishe-20240819170600"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Fram-20240820071300-Serial_Number_54129-20240819175900"></span>I've taken a look at <a href="/wiki/Barnewall_Two-way_Model" title="Barnewall Two-way Model">Barnewall Two-way Model</a> as not only your writing <i>style</i> is a problem, but the contents of that article were frankly dreadful. Things like "Passive investors do not have the bargaining ability to make crucial decisions as they work under bosses on a contractual basis and are obliged to comply with the terms and conditions set by their employers. " or "However, there is no guarantee that passive investors can have the ability to enhance their level of independence, and they will not be able to make their own decisions as they always have to depend on what their superiors instruct and act accordingly." are not supported by the sources <i>at all</i>. Never mind the nonsense of "Generally it is perceived and assumed that people who have fewer economic resources and especially those who have little to no access to even basic facilities tend to become passive investors." People with no access to basic facilities are not the people discussed by the model or the sources... I will keep an eye on your new creations and may request removal of your user rights as I don't think you are the kind of editor who should be autopatrolled or who should be reviewing new pages or pending changes. <a href="/wiki/User:Fram" class="mw-redirect" title="User:Fram">Fram</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Fram#c-Fram-20240820071300-Serial_Number_54129-20240819175900" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">07:13, 20 August 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Fram-20240820071300-Serial_Number_54129-20240819175900"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Fram-20240820071300-Serial_Number_54129-20240819175900"></span> <dl><dd><dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Abishe-20240820152900-Fram-20240820071300"></span>This is an eye opener for me as my article has been termed as delusional and my writing pattern lacks the basic common sense. I admit my mistakes and I take the responsibility for it. I thought of always applying whatever I studied at school or college level to full effect in practical aspects and as a result I decided to execute my knowledge prowess through such encyclopediac articles. I am always keen on enhancing knowledge and to share the same with others without expecting anything in return. Maybe I was overexcited and pumped up whenever I get an opportunity to use my knowledge to the best of my efforts. I also admit the fact that my style of writing has also been influenced with the advent of college semester report writing, assignments as we are expected to give an in-depth analysis on explaining a particular segment to gain more marks and also to top the rankings like first class honours etc. My knack of writing is clearly evident with how you are making suggestions on the necessity to trim down unnecessary wordings and to ensure a neutral point of view. I am always eager to apply whatever knowledge I have at my disposal which can benefit me and others and that is why I feel maybe I have exaggerated my style of writing. Hopefully I can turn things around to stay alive and remain upbeat about the weight of expectations on me. Hopefully I can see a glimmer of hope and possibly see light at the end of the tunnel. I strive with the emphasis on improving myself and I guarantee that I can make a resilient comeback and become an inevitable Wikipedia editor. <a href="/wiki/User:Abishe" title="User:Abishe">Abishe</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Abishe" title="User talk:Abishe">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Fram#c-Abishe-20240820152900-Fram-20240820071300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:29, 20 August 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Abishe-20240820152900-Fram-20240820071300"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Abishe-20240820152900-Fram-20240820071300"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Orders_of_magnitude" data-mw-thread-id="h-Orders_of_magnitude-20240822092600"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Orders_of_magnitude-20240822092600"></span>Orders of magnitude<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Orders_of_magnitude-20240822092600"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Fram&action=edit&section=8" title="Edit section: Orders of magnitude"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Solomonfromfinland-20240822092600-Orders_of_magnitude"></span>You nominated the article "<a href="/w/index.php?title=Orders_of_magnitude_(angular_frequency)&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Orders of magnitude (angular frequency) (page does not exist)">Orders of magnitude (angular frequency)</a>" for deletion. Why? Why is this article any less desirable than all the other articles titled "Orders of magnitude (quantity)"? <a href="/wiki/User:Solomonfromfinland" title="User:Solomonfromfinland">Solomonfromfinland</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Solomonfromfinland" title="User talk:Solomonfromfinland">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Fram#c-Solomonfromfinland-20240822092600-Orders_of_magnitude" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">09:26, 22 August 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Solomonfromfinland-20240822092600-Orders_of_magnitude"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Solomonfromfinland-20240822092600-Orders_of_magnitude"></span> </p> <dl><dd><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Fram-20240822092800-Solomonfromfinland-20240822092600"></span>WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS</a>. I have no idea if the other ones are better or deserve deletion or redirecting as well, but the one you created is, like I said, a random selection of examples, not based on an overarching source. An article which exists only of examples is not an encyclopedic article. <a href="/wiki/User:Fram" class="mw-redirect" title="User:Fram">Fram</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Fram#c-Fram-20240822092800-Solomonfromfinland-20240822092600" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">09:28, 22 August 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Fram-20240822092800-Solomonfromfinland-20240822092600"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Fram-20240822092800-Solomonfromfinland-20240822092600"></span></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Deleting_page_Baron_of_the_Bachuil" data-mw-thread-id="h-Deleting_page_Baron_of_the_Bachuil-20240822151000"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Deleting_page_Baron_of_the_Bachuil-20240822151000"></span>Deleting page Baron of the Bachuil<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Deleting_page_Baron_of_the_Bachuil-20240822151000"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Fram&action=edit&section=9" title="Edit section: Deleting page Baron of the Bachuil"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Kellycrak88-20240822151000-Deleting_page_Baron_of_the_Bachuil"></span>Fram, I noticed that you deleted the premier baron of the realm page that I created it's the oldest extant title of nobility. Rather than outright deletion, I believe it would have been more constructive to start a discussion about any concerns you had (as you have often poked at me), particularly given the historic significance of the title and the numerous sources included in the article. I've observed that we've had several interactions in the past, and it seems like you might be closely monitoring my contributions. I can't help but feel that this might be causing unnecessary friction between us. I would appreciate it if we could focus on constructive dialogue moving forward, rather than actions that could be seen as disruptive. <a href="/wiki/User:Kellycrak88" title="User:Kellycrak88">Kellycrak88</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Kellycrak88" title="User talk:Kellycrak88">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Fram#c-Kellycrak88-20240822151000-Deleting_page_Baron_of_the_Bachuil" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:10, 22 August 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Kellycrak88-20240822151000-Deleting_page_Baron_of_the_Bachuil"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Kellycrak88-20240822151000-Deleting_page_Baron_of_the_Bachuil"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Fram-20240822152900-Kellycrak88-20240822151000"></span>First, you should not have created the text someone else created as your own in mainspace, such copy-paste moves are not allowed. Secondly, the first source in the article, claimed to be checkec today, was a weird commercial casino page, not a reliable source at all, where the source was vaguely related to the pahe subject but not to the facts it sourced at all. You are an experienced editor, you should do better. And no, I wasn't "closely monitoring your contributions", I saw the page among the new pages which I was checking. The page was created at 13:33, 22 August 2024, I also edited a page created at 14:19, 22 August 2024, one from 14:03, 22 August 2024, one from 14:46, 22 August 2024, one from 11:22, 22 August 2024, ... <a href="/wiki/User:Fram" class="mw-redirect" title="User:Fram">Fram</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Fram#c-Fram-20240822152900-Kellycrak88-20240822151000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:29, 22 August 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Fram-20240822152900-Kellycrak88-20240822151000"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Fram-20240822152900-Kellycrak88-20240822151000"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Kellycrak88-20240822154200-Fram-20240822152900"></span>Plumber and I collaborated on the article, and he asked me to publish it. I wasn’t aware that this approach violated any specific rules, but I appreciate you bringing it to my attention. I'll review the sources with Plumber to ensure they meet Wikipedia's standards, and we'll work together to address any issues so we can move forward with getting the article live. <a href="/wiki/User:Kellycrak88" title="User:Kellycrak88">Kellycrak88</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Kellycrak88" title="User talk:Kellycrak88">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Fram#c-Kellycrak88-20240822154200-Fram-20240822152900" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:42, 22 August 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Kellycrak88-20240822154200-Fram-20240822152900"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Kellycrak88-20240822154200-Fram-20240822152900"></span></dd></dl></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Fram-20240822153000-Kellycrak88-20240822151000"></span>Oh, and moving a page to draft is not "deleting" a page, it's making sure that it isn't in the mainspace when the sourcing is so dubious. It hasn't been in the mainspace since 2001, a few more days or weeks won't hurt. <a href="/wiki/User:Fram" class="mw-redirect" title="User:Fram">Fram</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Fram#c-Fram-20240822153000-Kellycrak88-20240822151000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:30, 22 August 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Fram-20240822153000-Kellycrak88-20240822151000"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Fram-20240822153000-Kellycrak88-20240822151000"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Kellycrak88-20240822154200-Fram-20240822153000"></span>I stand corrected, thanks for the clarification. <a href="/wiki/User:Kellycrak88" title="User:Kellycrak88">Kellycrak88</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Kellycrak88" title="User talk:Kellycrak88">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Fram#c-Kellycrak88-20240822154200-Fram-20240822153000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:42, 22 August 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Kellycrak88-20240822154200-Fram-20240822153000"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Kellycrak88-20240822154200-Fram-20240822153000"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Fram-20240822154300-Kellycrak88-20240822151000"></span>(edit confmict)Finally, even without the sourcing issus, it is really not a good article. It starts with some general vague text about 1556, instead of kdiscussing the history of the actual barony, which is claimed in the infobox to be from the 9th century. Reading the article doesn't really inform readers about the barony, which should be the purpose after all. It's a jumble of largely unrelated paragraphs, e.g. suddenly talking about " In a 1951 ruling, the Lord Lyon found that the Coarbs of St Moluag had existed for centuries without acknowledging any secular authority or hierarchical structure." without any indication what this is about or why this is important. It's a lot more informative to read the existing article on <a href="/wiki/Clan_Livingstone" title="Clan Livingstone">Clan Livingstone</a>. <a href="/wiki/User:Fram" class="mw-redirect" title="User:Fram">Fram</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Fram#c-Fram-20240822154300-Kellycrak88-20240822151000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:43, 22 August 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Fram-20240822154300-Kellycrak88-20240822151000"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Fram-20240822154300-Kellycrak88-20240822151000"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Daniel_Plumber-20240823072400-Fram-20240822154300"></span>While I concur regarding the absence of the history section, I do not consider the text in question (which is a dedicated section) to be vague. Initially, it elucidates the essence of baronial allodial fiefdoms in Scotland, where the holders are barons <i>par la grâce de Dieu</i> (by the Grace of God), owing to the allodial nature of their fiefs and their refusal to acknowledge any superiors.</dd> <dd>Moreover, I contend that the title stands as one of the oldest in the introduction. To reinforce this claim, I cite an instance where the Duke of Argyll addressed the Baron as "my lord", highlighting the antiquity of the barony and its significant seniority (allodial in origin, predating Scottish feudalism). I have appropriately attributed this information to credible sources.</dd> <dd>Furthermore, the ruling by Lord Lyon is not arbitrary but grounded in specific findings. He observed that the Coarb of St. Moluag (Baron of the Bachuil) recognised no higher authority, as their fief is allodial, affirming the Livingstones' status. The concluding paragraph underscores the heraldic privileges linked with an allodial barony, which the Livingstones possess, thereby solidifying their position as barons "by the Grace of God".</dd> <dd>Regarding the mention of the King of Scots, I included it solely to offer additional context (the King of Scots filled a high king position, not superior among equals, emphasising the allodial aspect in medieval Scotland). It merely serves as a starting point for the actual content. However, I agree that the Duke of Argyll's inclusion in the section is irrelevant though. <a href="/wiki/User:Daniel_Plumber" title="User:Daniel Plumber">Daniel Plumber</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Daniel_Plumber" title="User talk:Daniel Plumber">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Fram#c-Daniel_Plumber-20240823072400-Fram-20240822154300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">07:24, 23 August 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Daniel_Plumber-20240823072400-Fram-20240822154300"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Daniel_Plumber-20240823072400-Fram-20240822154300"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Fram-20240823075000-Daniel_Plumber-20240823072400"></span>The Lord Lyon line came completely out of the blue, no indication at all was given what the "Coarbs of St Moluag" are or what they had to do with the Barony. <a href="/wiki/User:Fram" class="mw-redirect" title="User:Fram">Fram</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Fram#c-Fram-20240823075000-Daniel_Plumber-20240823072400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">07:50, 23 August 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Fram-20240823075000-Daniel_Plumber-20240823072400"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Fram-20240823075000-Daniel_Plumber-20240823072400"></span></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Fram-20240823075900-Daniel_Plumber-20240823072400"></span>It also helps if you link to the sources you use wherever possible (e.g. <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://journals.socantscot.org/index.php/psas/article/view/8229/8197">this</a>), and please try to write in your own words instead of closely paraphrasing, like you did here (see how e.g. the aside "- which itself was a developed form of tribalism in Western Europe -" compares to the similar aside in the source "—which we shall see was, inWestern Europe at any rate, itself a developed form of tribalism—"). See <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Close_paraphrasing" title="Wikipedia:Close paraphrasing">Wikipedia:Close paraphrasing</a>. <a href="/wiki/User:Fram" class="mw-redirect" title="User:Fram">Fram</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Fram#c-Fram-20240823075900-Daniel_Plumber-20240823072400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">07:59, 23 August 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Fram-20240823075900-Daniel_Plumber-20240823072400"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Fram-20240823075900-Daniel_Plumber-20240823072400"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Daniel_Plumber-20240823094100-Fram-20240823075900"></span>Alright, thanks for the advice. <a href="/wiki/User:Daniel_Plumber" title="User:Daniel Plumber">Daniel Plumber</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Daniel_Plumber" title="User talk:Daniel Plumber">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Fram#c-Daniel_Plumber-20240823094100-Fram-20240823075900" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">09:41, 23 August 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Daniel_Plumber-20240823094100-Fram-20240823075900"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Daniel_Plumber-20240823094100-Fram-20240823075900"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/List_of_windmills_in_Friesland_(T–V)" data-mw-thread-id="h-Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/List_of_windmills_in_Friesland_(T–V)-20240825052300"><span id="Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion.2FList_of_windmills_in_Friesland_.28T.E2.80.93V.29"></span><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/List_of_windmills_in_Friesland_(T–V)-20240825052300"></span><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/List_of_windmills_in_Friesland_(T%E2%80%93V)" title="Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of windmills in Friesland (T–V)">Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of windmills in Friesland (T–V)</a><span data-mw-comment-end="h-Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/List_of_windmills_in_Friesland_(T–V)-20240825052300"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Fram&action=edit&section=10" title="Edit section: Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of windmills in Friesland (T–V)"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Liz-20240825052300-Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/List_of_windmills_in_Friesland_(T–V)"></span>Hello, Fram, </p><p>I just noticed that this bundled nomination is not formatted correctly. This will result in our editing tool, XFDcloser, taking action on the article in the title and ignoring the other articles you meant to include. You can't just arrange the articles in a list, they have to have the proper formatting to be a real bundled nomination that will allow XFDcloser to take action on all of the articles. Luckily, the necessary changes aren't complicated. Just go review, the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:AFD" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:AFD">WP:AFD</a> section on nominating multiple articles and follow the instructions there to redo your list of articles to be considered. It should only take a few minutes but it will save the eventual discussion closer a lot of headaches if you take care of this prior to closure. Thank you. <span style="font-family:Papyrus; color:#800080;"><a href="/wiki/User:Liz" title="User:Liz"><i><b>L</b></i>iz</a></span> <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;"><a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Liz" title="Special:Contributions/Liz"><i><b>Read!</b></i></a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Liz" title="User talk:Liz"><i><b>Talk!</b></i></a></sup> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Fram#c-Liz-20240825052300-Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/List_of_windmills_in_Friesland_(T–V)" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">05:23, 25 August 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Liz-20240825052300-Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/List_of_windmills_in_Friesland_(T–V)"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Liz-20240825052300-Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/List_of_windmills_in_Friesland_(T–V)"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Liz-20240825053900-Liz-20240825052300"></span>Here's what a correctly formatted bundled nomination looks like: <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Korea_Jesus_Presbyterian_Church" title="Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Korea Jesus Presbyterian Church">Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Korea Jesus Presbyterian Church</a>. <span style="font-family:Papyrus; color:#800080;"><a href="/wiki/User:Liz" title="User:Liz"><i><b>L</b></i>iz</a></span> <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;"><a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Liz" title="Special:Contributions/Liz"><i><b>Read!</b></i></a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Liz" title="User talk:Liz"><i><b>Talk!</b></i></a></sup> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Fram#c-Liz-20240825053900-Liz-20240825052300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">05:39, 25 August 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Liz-20240825053900-Liz-20240825052300"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Liz-20240825053900-Liz-20240825052300"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Fram-20240826071500-Liz-20240825053900"></span>Done, can't recall having seen this before when I did multi-noms. <a href="/wiki/User:Fram" class="mw-redirect" title="User:Fram">Fram</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Fram#c-Fram-20240826071500-Liz-20240825053900" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">07:15, 26 August 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Fram-20240826071500-Liz-20240825053900"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Fram-20240826071500-Liz-20240825053900"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="New_pages_patrol_September_2024_Backlog_drive" data-mw-thread-id="h-New_pages_patrol_September_2024_Backlog_drive-20240826170900"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-New_pages_patrol_September_2024_Backlog_drive-20240826170900"></span>New pages patrol September 2024 Backlog drive<span data-mw-comment-end="h-New_pages_patrol_September_2024_Backlog_drive-20240826170900"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Fram&action=edit&section=11" title="Edit section: New pages patrol September 2024 Backlog drive"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <table style="border: 5px solid #ABCDEF ; background-color: #FFF; color: #000; padding:10px 15px 0"> <tbody><tr> <td style="padding: 0; vertical-align: middle; height: 1.1em; font-size:130%"><b><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:New_pages_patrol" title="Wikipedia:New pages patrol"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-MediaWiki_message_delivery-20240826170900-New_pages_patrol_September_2024_Backlog_drive"></span>New pages patrol</a> |</b> <span style="font-size:85%"><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:New_pages_patrol/Backlog_drives/September_2024" title="Wikipedia:New pages patrol/Backlog drives/September 2024">September 2024 Backlog Drive</a></span> </td> <td rowspan="3"><figure class="mw-halign-right" typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:NPP_Barnstar.png" class="mw-file-description"><img src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/1a/NPP_Barnstar.png/80px-NPP_Barnstar.png" decoding="async" width="80" height="76" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/1a/NPP_Barnstar.png/120px-NPP_Barnstar.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/1a/NPP_Barnstar.png/160px-NPP_Barnstar.png 2x" data-file-width="2000" data-file-height="1900"/></a><figcaption></figcaption></figure> </td></tr> <tr> <td> <ul><li>On 1 September 2024, a one-month backlog drive for new pages patrol will begin.</li> <li>Barnstars will be awarded based on the number of articles and redirects patrolled.</li> <li>Barnstars will also be granted for re-reviewing articles previously reviewed by other patrollers during the drive.</li> <li>Each article review will earn 1 point, and each redirect review will earn 0.2 points.</li> <li>Interested in taking part? <b><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:New_pages_patrol/Backlog_drives/September_2024/Participants" title="Wikipedia:New pages patrol/Backlog drives/September 2024/Participants">Sign up here</a></b>.</li></ul> </td></tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" style="font-size:85%; padding-top:15px;">You're receiving this message because you are a new page patroller. To opt-out of future mailings, please remove yourself <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:New_pages_patrol/Reviewers/Newsletter_list" title="Wikipedia:New pages patrol/Reviewers/Newsletter list">here.</a> </td></tr></tbody></table> <p><a href="/wiki/User:MediaWiki_message_delivery" title="User:MediaWiki message delivery">MediaWiki message delivery</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:MediaWiki_message_delivery" title="User talk:MediaWiki message delivery">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Fram#c-MediaWiki_message_delivery-20240826170900-New_pages_patrol_September_2024_Backlog_drive" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:09, 26 August 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-MediaWiki_message_delivery-20240826170900-New_pages_patrol_September_2024_Backlog_drive"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-MediaWiki_message_delivery-20240826170900-New_pages_patrol_September_2024_Backlog_drive"></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Disambiguation_link_notification_for_September_2" data-mw-thread-id="h-Disambiguation_link_notification_for_September_2-20240902075300"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Disambiguation_link_notification_for_September_2-20240902075300"></span>Disambiguation link notification for September 2<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Disambiguation_link_notification_for_September_2-20240902075300"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Fram&action=edit&section=12" title="Edit section: Disambiguation link notification for September 2"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-DPL_bot-20240902075300-Disambiguation_link_notification_for_September_2"></span>An automated process has detected that when you recently edited <a href="/wiki/Austro-Daimler" title="Austro-Daimler">Austro-Daimler</a>, you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page <a href="/wiki/Austrian" class="mw-disambig" title="Austrian">Austrian</a>. </p><p>(<a href="/wiki/User:DPL_bot" title="User:DPL bot">Opt-out instructions</a>.) --<a href="/wiki/User:DPL_bot" title="User:DPL bot">DPL bot</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:DPL_bot" title="User talk:DPL bot">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Fram#c-DPL_bot-20240902075300-Disambiguation_link_notification_for_September_2" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">07:53, 2 September 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-DPL_bot-20240902075300-Disambiguation_link_notification_for_September_2"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-DPL_bot-20240902075300-Disambiguation_link_notification_for_September_2"></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Missing_something" data-mw-thread-id="h-Missing_something-20240904041900"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Missing_something-20240904041900"></span>Missing something<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Missing_something-20240904041900"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Fram&action=edit&section=13" title="Edit section: Missing something"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Polygnotus-20240904041900-Missing_something"></span><style data-mw-deduplicate="TemplateStyles:r1248585704">@media screen{html.skin-theme-clientpref-night .mw-parser-output .inline-quote-talk{color:#00B785}}@media screen and (prefers-color-scheme:dark){html.skin-theme-clientpref-os .mw-parser-output .inline-quote-talk{color:#00B785}}.mw-parser-output .inline-quote-talk{font-family:Georgia,"DejaVu Serif",serif;color:#008560;quotes:none}.mw-parser-output .inline-quote-talk-italic{font-family:inherit;font-style:italic}.mw-parser-output .inline-quote-talk-marks{quotes:"\"""\""}</style><q class="inline-quote-talk">The title is claimed to be exactly years old</q> <a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Asilvering#c-Fram-20240902164700-Need_Guidance_on_Bias_and_Admin_Issues_in_Baronage_Guidelines_Discussion">[1]</a> <a href="/wiki/User:Polygnotus" title="User:Polygnotus">Polygnotus</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Polygnotus" title="User talk:Polygnotus">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Fram#c-Polygnotus-20240904041900-Missing_something" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">04:19, 4 September 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Polygnotus-20240904041900-Missing_something"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Polygnotus-20240904041900-Missing_something"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Fram-20240904064400-Polygnotus-20240904041900"></span>numlock issues. From 1624, so exactly 400 years old! At least, that's what the infobox says... <a href="/wiki/User:Fram" class="mw-redirect" title="User:Fram">Fram</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Fram#c-Fram-20240904064400-Polygnotus-20240904041900" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">06:44, 4 September 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Fram-20240904064400-Polygnotus-20240904041900"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Fram-20240904064400-Polygnotus-20240904041900"></span></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="olive_branch" data-mw-thread-id="h-olive_branch-20240906164900"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-olive_branch-20240906164900"></span>olive branch<span data-mw-comment-end="h-olive_branch-20240906164900"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Fram&action=edit&section=14" title="Edit section: olive branch"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Kellycrak88-20240906164900-olive_branch"></span>Hi Fram, </p><p>I wanted to extend an olive branch and reach out directly. I know we’ve had our differences in various discussions, and things may have escalated more than they should. My intention is always to contribute constructively, and although we may not always agree, I’m hoping we can find some common ground moving forward. I’m committed to improving my contributions and continuing to learn. I’d really like to turn this into a more collaborative relationship. </p><p>Thank you for considering this, and I hope we can move forward positively. </p><p>Best regards, </p><p>Kellycrak88 <a href="/wiki/User:Kellycrak88" title="User:Kellycrak88">Kellycrak88</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Kellycrak88" title="User talk:Kellycrak88">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Fram#c-Kellycrak88-20240906164900-olive_branch" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:49, 6 September 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Kellycrak88-20240906164900-olive_branch"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Kellycrak88-20240906164900-olive_branch"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Fram-20240909064800-Kellycrak88-20240906164900"></span>I have no problem with you wanting to edit constructively, and have stated in my ANi post explicitly that you are a good-faith editor. But I do hope that in the future, you will try to learn from issues you encounter, and keep your promises of being more careful and going slower, instead of just continuing in the same vein, which was what lead me to the ANI report. Articles should be factually correct, well sourced, neutral, free from copyright violations, and essentially about their title subject, not a vehicle to add loads of unrelated information or to focus on one tiny aspect only. <a href="/wiki/User:Fram" class="mw-redirect" title="User:Fram">Fram</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Fram#c-Fram-20240909064800-Kellycrak88-20240906164900" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">06:48, 9 September 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Fram-20240909064800-Kellycrak88-20240906164900"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Fram-20240909064800-Kellycrak88-20240906164900"></span></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="A_barnstar_for_you!" data-mw-thread-id="h-A_barnstar_for_you!-20240917100900"><span id="A_barnstar_for_you.21"></span><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-A_barnstar_for_you!-20240917100900"></span>A barnstar for you!<span data-mw-comment-end="h-A_barnstar_for_you!-20240917100900"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Fram&action=edit&section=15" title="Edit section: A barnstar for you!"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <table style="background-color: #fdffe7; border: 1px solid #fceb92;"> <tbody><tr> <td rowspan="2" style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 5px;"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Frost-20240917100900-A_barnstar_for_you!"></span><span typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Barnstar_of_Diligence_Hires.png" class="mw-file-description"><img src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/8c/Barnstar_of_Diligence_Hires.png/100px-Barnstar_of_Diligence_Hires.png" decoding="async" width="100" height="95" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/8c/Barnstar_of_Diligence_Hires.png/150px-Barnstar_of_Diligence_Hires.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/8c/Barnstar_of_Diligence_Hires.png/200px-Barnstar_of_Diligence_Hires.png 2x" data-file-width="2000" data-file-height="1900"/></a></span> </td> <td style="font-size: x-large; padding: 3px 3px 0 3px; height: 1.5em;"><b>The Barnstar of Diligence</b> </td></tr> <tr> <td style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 3px;">For your tireless efforts in keeping the 'pedia clean, I truly appreciate your work. <pre><a href="/wiki/User:Frost" class="mw-redirect" title="User:Frost"><span style="text-shadow: -1px -1px 2px #0B00C2, 1px -1px 2px #5000EB, -1px 1px 2px #0044cc, 1px 1px 2px #56CFF5; color: white; font-family: Typewriter;"><i><b>Frost</b></i></span></a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Fram#c-Frost-20240917100900-A_barnstar_for_you!" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">10:09, 17 September 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Frost-20240917100900-A_barnstar_for_you!"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Frost-20240917100900-A_barnstar_for_you!"></span> </pre> </td></tr></tbody></table> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Hostility_on_Baidwan_sept_of_Jat-Sikh_lineage" data-mw-thread-id="h-Hostility_on_Baidwan_sept_of_Jat-Sikh_lineage-20240917180800"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Hostility_on_Baidwan_sept_of_Jat-Sikh_lineage-20240917180800"></span>Hostility on <a href="/w/index.php?title=Baidwan_sept_of_Jat-Sikh_lineage&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Baidwan sept of Jat-Sikh lineage (page does not exist)">Baidwan sept of Jat-Sikh lineage</a><span data-mw-comment-end="h-Hostility_on_Baidwan_sept_of_Jat-Sikh_lineage-20240917180800"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Fram&action=edit&section=16" title="Edit section: Hostility on Baidwan sept of Jat-Sikh lineage"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Asilvering-20240917180800-Hostility_on_Baidwan_sept_of_Jat-Sikh_lineage"></span>Hi Fram, you mentioned getting hostility and claims of vandalism at <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Baidwan_sept_of_Jat-Sikh_lineage" title="Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Baidwan sept of Jat-Sikh lineage">Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Baidwan sept of Jat-Sikh lineage</a>, do you mean the edit summary the sockpuppet gave you in the edit summary when they reverted you? Or did you also get something somewhere else? Might be an unaccounted for sock if so. -- <a href="/wiki/User:Asilvering" title="User:Asilvering">asilvering</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Asilvering" title="User talk:Asilvering">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Fram#c-Asilvering-20240917180800-Hostility_on_Baidwan_sept_of_Jat-Sikh_lineage" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:08, 17 September 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Asilvering-20240917180800-Hostility_on_Baidwan_sept_of_Jat-Sikh_lineage"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Asilvering-20240917180800-Hostility_on_Baidwan_sept_of_Jat-Sikh_lineage"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Fram-20240917181700-Asilvering-20240917180800"></span>The edit summaries (most of them were machine generated it seems, but a few were accusations of COI, move vandalism, ...). BTW, thank you for not letting my oppose stop you from working together like here, I've always tried to forget whoever supported or opposed me in particular discussions (even RFAs) as to not let that cloud later actions or interactions, and it's nice to see others act the same. <a href="/wiki/User:Fram" class="mw-redirect" title="User:Fram">Fram</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Fram#c-Fram-20240917181700-Asilvering-20240917180800" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:17, 17 September 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Fram-20240917181700-Asilvering-20240917180800"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Fram-20240917181700-Asilvering-20240917180800"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Asilvering-20240917193800-Fram-20240917181700"></span>Always. (Honestly, I'm glad you voted as you did. A well-earned oppose from someone you respect is a badge of honour.) -- <a href="/wiki/User:Asilvering" title="User:Asilvering">asilvering</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Asilvering" title="User talk:Asilvering">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Fram#c-Asilvering-20240917193800-Fram-20240917181700" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:38, 17 September 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Asilvering-20240917193800-Fram-20240917181700"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Asilvering-20240917193800-Fram-20240917181700"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Fram-20240918071200-Asilvering-20240917193800"></span>And it's more realistic to be 99.5% perfect than to be 100% perfect! <a href="/wiki/User:Fram" class="mw-redirect" title="User:Fram">Fram</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Fram#c-Fram-20240918071200-Asilvering-20240917193800" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">07:12, 18 September 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Fram-20240918071200-Asilvering-20240917193800"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Fram-20240918071200-Asilvering-20240917193800"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Fram-20240918080900-Hostility_on_Baidwan_sept_of_Jat-Sikh_lineage"></span>Oh, and about the hostility, see <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Repulsive_hegemony_card" title="User talk:Repulsive hegemony card">User talk:Repulsive hegemony card</a> (section "Answer Me !! My Lowkey opinion whats going on with you @<a href="/wiki/User:Frost" class="mw-redirect" title="User:Frost">User:Frost</a> &<a href="/wiki/User:Fram" class="mw-redirect" title="User:Fram">Fram</a>", direct link doesn't work. Top of the talk page says "humanist", but apparently not then... <a href="/wiki/User:Fram" class="mw-redirect" title="User:Fram">Fram</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Fram#c-Fram-20240918080900-Hostility_on_Baidwan_sept_of_Jat-Sikh_lineage" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">08:09, 18 September 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Fram-20240918080900-Hostility_on_Baidwan_sept_of_Jat-Sikh_lineage"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Fram-20240918080900-Hostility_on_Baidwan_sept_of_Jat-Sikh_lineage"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Asilvering-20240918161200-Fram-20240918080900"></span>Geez. I spent a while yesterday trying to figure out what was going on with all the page moves in their contribution history, but I decided I was too tired to work it out and gave up. Glad to see some admins have popped by in the meantime. Can't imagine they'll keep their talk page access for long. -- <a href="/wiki/User:Asilvering" title="User:Asilvering">asilvering</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Asilvering" title="User talk:Asilvering">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Fram#c-Asilvering-20240918161200-Fram-20240918080900" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:12, 18 September 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Asilvering-20240918161200-Fram-20240918080900"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Asilvering-20240918161200-Fram-20240918080900"></span></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Unreliable_Sources-_Appendix_N" data-mw-thread-id="h-Unreliable_Sources-_Appendix_N-20240918142700"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Unreliable_Sources-_Appendix_N-20240918142700"></span>Unreliable Sources- Appendix N<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Unreliable_Sources-_Appendix_N-20240918142700"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Fram&action=edit&section=17" title="Edit section: Unreliable Sources- Appendix N"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-46.208.1.154-20240918142700-Unreliable_Sources-_Appendix_N"></span>Hi,you've flagged the Appendix N article with unreliable sources. Please could you specify which sources so they can be investigated? <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/46.208.1.154" title="Special:Contributions/46.208.1.154">46.208.1.154</a> (<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:46.208.1.154&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User talk:46.208.1.154 (page does not exist)">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Fram#c-46.208.1.154-20240918142700-Unreliable_Sources-_Appendix_N" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">14:27, 18 September 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-46.208.1.154-20240918142700-Unreliable_Sources-_Appendix_N"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-46.208.1.154-20240918142700-Unreliable_Sources-_Appendix_N"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Fram-20240918143000-46.208.1.154-20240918142700"></span>Blogs, fandom wiki, perhaps others (I haven't checked them all, but if there are fora, fan websites, personal websites from non-recognised experts, ... then these as well). <a href="/wiki/User:Fram" class="mw-redirect" title="User:Fram">Fram</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Fram#c-Fram-20240918143000-46.208.1.154-20240918142700" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">14:30, 18 September 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Fram-20240918143000-46.208.1.154-20240918142700"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Fram-20240918143000-46.208.1.154-20240918142700"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Silverwood-20240918151400-Fram-20240918143000"></span>Thanks for clarifying, Fram. How does it look to you now? I have removed the fandom wiki and one of the blog references. I left one blog reference in for the blog by games designer Martin Ralya in the "Legacy and cultural impact" section at the end as I thought it provided evidence of a notable person's involvement, but we can remove that as well if you think it is holding the article back from having the flag removed. <a href="/wiki/User:Silverwood" title="User:Silverwood">Silverwood</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Silverwood" title="User talk:Silverwood">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Fram#c-Silverwood-20240918151400-Fram-20240918143000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:14, 18 September 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Silverwood-20240918151400-Fram-20240918143000"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Silverwood-20240918151400-Fram-20240918143000"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Fram-20240918153600-Silverwood-20240918151400"></span>I think <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://jeffro.wordpress.com/2015/10/12/appendix-n-survey-complete/">this</a> needs to go, and I don't see the value of <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://therpgpundit.blogspot.com/2014/10/screw-appendix-n.html">this</a>. A link to a store<a rel="nofollow" class="external autonumber" href="https://goodman-games.com/store/product/dungeon-crawl-classics-84-peril-on-the-purple-planet-pdf/">[2]</a> to make some point that this release is related to Appendix N, even though it nowhere says that, seems more like <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:OR" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:OR">WP:OR</a> than something worth including. Yes, the inspirations for D&D will inspire D&D, that seems rather logical. The Hugo Award nomination can be removed as well, as the article clearly notes that they are a mockery of the original process, making nominations virtually worthless or meaningless. I doubt that the inclusion of <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://sanctum.media/blog/">this</a> is warranted either, a random blog (of some quality). Otherwise feel free to remove the tag, it's just my opinion. <a href="/wiki/User:Fram" class="mw-redirect" title="User:Fram">Fram</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Fram#c-Fram-20240918153600-Silverwood-20240918151400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:36, 18 September 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Fram-20240918153600-Silverwood-20240918151400"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Fram-20240918153600-Silverwood-20240918151400"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Silverwood-20240918171600-Fram-20240918153600"></span>These are all fair points. The release in question was a different RPG rather than D&D, and was directly inspired by Appendix N rather than by D&D, but your point is correct that the link does not support the claim, so it needs a better source or it should be removed. I will remove all of those links you have mentioned and will remove the relevant text unless I can find better sources before I consider removing the tag. It's for the best if people don't remove these kind of tags without getting input from a second editor first, so thanks for the input. <a href="/wiki/User:Silverwood" title="User:Silverwood">Silverwood</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Silverwood" title="User talk:Silverwood">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Fram#c-Silverwood-20240918171600-Fram-20240918153600" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:16, 18 September 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Silverwood-20240918171600-Fram-20240918153600"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Silverwood-20240918171600-Fram-20240918153600"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Question_on_reliability_of_a_certain_source" data-mw-thread-id="h-Question_on_reliability_of_a_certain_source-20240920145700"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Question_on_reliability_of_a_certain_source-20240920145700"></span>Question on reliability of a certain source<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Question_on_reliability_of_a_certain_source-20240920145700"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Fram&action=edit&section=18" title="Edit section: Question on reliability of a certain source"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-N1TH_Music-20240920145700-Question_on_reliability_of_a_certain_source"></span>Hello again, I wanted to once again make some changes to the article for <a href="/wiki/Contern" title="Contern">Contern</a> this time adding stuff about the economy, and I stumbled across a source which looked useful, <a rel="nofollow" class="external autonumber" href="https://luxtoday.lu/en/knowledge/contern-commune-in-luxembourg%7Cthis">[3]</a>. And while the data itself seems mostly sound and well sourced, one of the sections is literally directly copied from what I wrote in the article right here on wikipedia. So before using it I thought it would be best to ask you if that disqualifies the source from being usable, thanks <a href="/wiki/User:N1TH_Music" title="User:N1TH Music">N1TH Music</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:N1TH_Music" title="User talk:N1TH Music">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Fram#c-N1TH_Music-20240920145700-Question_on_reliability_of_a_certain_source" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">14:57, 20 September 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-N1TH_Music-20240920145700-Question_on_reliability_of_a_certain_source"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-N1TH_Music-20240920145700-Question_on_reliability_of_a_certain_source"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Fram-20240920152100-N1TH_Music-20240920145700"></span>It's hard to be certain, but it looks computer-generated to me. Something like "The town boasts great schools, like the Contern Um Ewent Primary School, " while noting further down that this is the only school, is bizarre if it was written by a human. Compared to e.g. <a rel="nofollow" class="external autonumber" href="https://luxtoday.lu/en/knowledge/leudelange-commune-in-luxembourg">[4]</a> from the same site, I note e.g.</dd></dl> <ul><li>"Contern presents the advantage of offering a pleasant rural environment, close to nature and removed from the hustle and bustle of the capital, yet conveniently located just a short distance away, with considerably more affordable prices."</li></ul> <dl><dd>vs.</dd></dl> <ul><li>"Leudelange presents an appealing residential option, offering a village-like ambiance away from the hustle of the capital yet conveniently close, and with significantly more affordable prices. "</li></ul> <dl><dd>This reads to me as AI-generated text, superficially different but using the exact same, rather hollow phrases. And it is typical for AI texts to take part of their info from Wikipedia, which makes it unreliable (circular referencing). So I wouldn't consider it a reliable source, but try to track down where it got its information from and you may find good sources (e.g. the history section of the Leudelange AI page is translated and slightly summarized from <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://www.leudelange.lu/fr/commune-de-leudelange/blog/vie-sociale/2020/08/leudelange-et-son-histoire">here</a>. <a href="/wiki/User:Fram" class="mw-redirect" title="User:Fram">Fram</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Fram#c-Fram-20240920152100-N1TH_Music-20240920145700" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:21, 20 September 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Fram-20240920152100-N1TH_Music-20240920145700"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Fram-20240920152100-N1TH_Music-20240920145700"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-N1TH_Music-20240920155900-Fram-20240920152100"></span>So I should try to track down the original source of the data of median income if I wish add the information to the article? <a href="/wiki/User:N1TH_Music" title="User:N1TH Music">N1TH Music</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:N1TH_Music" title="User talk:N1TH Music">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Fram#c-N1TH_Music-20240920155900-Fram-20240920152100" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:59, 20 September 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-N1TH_Music-20240920155900-Fram-20240920152100"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-N1TH_Music-20240920155900-Fram-20240920152100"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Fram-20240920160700-N1TH_Music-20240920155900"></span>If that is even necessary for a 4000-person community. Not every last detail needs to be included. But if you want to include it, yes, either get a reliable primary source for it, or a newspaper or so commenting on it. <a href="/wiki/User:Fram" class="mw-redirect" title="User:Fram">Fram</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Fram#c-Fram-20240920160700-N1TH_Music-20240920155900" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:07, 20 September 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Fram-20240920160700-N1TH_Music-20240920155900"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Fram-20240920160700-N1TH_Music-20240920155900"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-N1TH_Music-20240920162800-Fram-20240920160700"></span>Alright yes I've found the primary source. And on the topic of whether it's necessary, I understand there's not much point to adding so much information to an article about a small commune but surely if it's all correct, encyclopedic and well sourced then there's nothing detrimental about adding it if I so please, especially since editing wikipedia is merely a hobby for me afterall. But also I was inclined to add this information after hearing some friends of mine discussing which communes were the richest, so this seems to be pretty useful information. And wouldn't having articles which have loads of detailed information about every aspect of them as is the case for Contern or also say <a href="/wiki/Siddington,_Gloucestershire" title="Siddington, Gloucestershire">Siddington, Gloucestershire</a> set a precedent that all articles about similar municipalities and towns should strive to be of similar quality. If in the future, all articles about parishes in England were written to the same standard as Siddington, that's beneficial for wikipedia no? <a href="/wiki/User:N1TH_Music" title="User:N1TH Music">N1TH Music</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:N1TH_Music" title="User talk:N1TH Music">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Fram#c-N1TH_Music-20240920162800-Fram-20240920160700" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:28, 20 September 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-N1TH_Music-20240920162800-Fram-20240920160700"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-N1TH_Music-20240920162800-Fram-20240920160700"></span></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-N1TH_Music-20240925205900-Fram-20240920160700"></span>Also one more thing, I've noticed Contern is still listed as a stub, when it obviously no longer is. How does one go about changing that? Thanks <a href="/wiki/User:N1TH_Music" title="User:N1TH Music">N1TH Music</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:N1TH_Music" title="User talk:N1TH Music">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Fram#c-N1TH_Music-20240925205900-Fram-20240920160700" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:59, 25 September 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-N1TH_Music-20240925205900-Fram-20240920160700"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-N1TH_Music-20240925205900-Fram-20240920160700"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Fram-20240926070700-N1TH_Music-20240925205900"></span>I don't see it listed as a stub? Normally, near the bottom you would have a stub template (Luxembourg-stub or something similar), you can simply remove this once the article is no longer a stub. <a href="/wiki/User:Fram" class="mw-redirect" title="User:Fram">Fram</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Fram#c-Fram-20240926070700-N1TH_Music-20240925205900" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">07:07, 26 September 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Fram-20240926070700-N1TH_Music-20240925205900"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Fram-20240926070700-N1TH_Music-20240925205900"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-N1TH_Music-20240926091700-Fram-20240926070700"></span>Well a while ago I removed the template there but on the talk page it still says the article has been evaluated as stub class on wikiproject:Luxembourg. I’m wondering as to how it can be reevaluated. <a href="/wiki/User:N1TH_Music" title="User:N1TH Music">N1TH Music</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:N1TH_Music" title="User talk:N1TH Music">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Fram#c-N1TH_Music-20240926091700-Fram-20240926070700" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">09:17, 26 September 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-N1TH_Music-20240926091700-Fram-20240926070700"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-N1TH_Music-20240926091700-Fram-20240926070700"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Fram-20240926093000-N1TH_Music-20240926091700"></span>I removed it. Evaluation is not really that important between stub and GA/FA, no one really cares if an article is C-class or B-class. <a href="/wiki/User:Fram" class="mw-redirect" title="User:Fram">Fram</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Fram#c-Fram-20240926093000-N1TH_Music-20240926091700" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">09:30, 26 September 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Fram-20240926093000-N1TH_Music-20240926091700"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Fram-20240926093000-N1TH_Music-20240926091700"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Declined_speedy_deletion" data-mw-thread-id="h-Declined_speedy_deletion-20241001143200"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Declined_speedy_deletion-20241001143200"></span>Declined speedy deletion<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Declined_speedy_deletion-20241001143200"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Fram&action=edit&section=19" title="Edit section: Declined speedy deletion"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-ComplexRational-20241001143200-Declined_speedy_deletion"></span>Hi Fram, I declined your <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:CSD#A3" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:CSD">WP:CSD#A3</a> nomination for <a href="/wiki/St._Mary%27s_Cemetery_(Washington,_D.C.)" title="St. Mary's Cemetery (Washington, D.C.)">St. Mary's Cemetery (Washington, D.C.)</a> because the page is not devoid of content, and meets the bare minimum standard for a stub. As a friendly reminder, "no content" as stated in A3 means "no content at all, in any form", which was not the case here. If you believe the topic lacks notability, please use a different deletion process. Thanks, <sup><a href="/wiki/User:ComplexRational" title="User:ComplexRational"><b><span style="color:#0039a6">Complex</span></b></a></sup>/<sub><a href="/wiki/User_talk:ComplexRational" title="User talk:ComplexRational"><b><span style="color:#000000">Rational</span></b></a></sub> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Fram#c-ComplexRational-20241001143200-Declined_speedy_deletion" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">14:32, 1 October 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-ComplexRational-20241001143200-Declined_speedy_deletion"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-ComplexRational-20241001143200-Declined_speedy_deletion"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Fram-20241001143400-ComplexRational-20241001143200"></span>I just posted on your talk page, basically your interpretation of A3 is incorrect, as it also includes articles which have nothing <i>but</i> a rephrasing of the title, as was here the case. The title and the one sentence were quasi-identical. <a href="/wiki/User:Fram" class="mw-redirect" title="User:Fram">Fram</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Fram#c-Fram-20241001143400-ComplexRational-20241001143200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">14:34, 1 October 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Fram-20241001143400-ComplexRational-20241001143200"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Fram-20241001143400-ComplexRational-20241001143200"></span></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="De-PRODing_2015_World_Youth_Championships_in_Athletics_–_Boys'_high_jump" data-mw-thread-id="h-De-PRODing_2015_World_Youth_Championships_in_Athletics_–_Boys'_high_jump-20241002140300"><span id="De-PRODing_2015_World_Youth_Championships_in_Athletics_.E2.80.93_Boys.27_high_jump"></span><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-De-PRODing_2015_World_Youth_Championships_in_Athletics_–_Boys'_high_jump-20241002140300"></span>De-PRODing <a href="/wiki/2015_World_Youth_Championships_in_Athletics_%E2%80%93_Boys%27_high_jump" title="2015 World Youth Championships in Athletics – Boys' high jump">2015 World Youth Championships in Athletics – Boys' high jump</a><span data-mw-comment-end="h-De-PRODing_2015_World_Youth_Championships_in_Athletics_–_Boys'_high_jump-20241002140300"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Fram&action=edit&section=20" title="Edit section: De-PRODing 2015 World Youth Championships in Athletics – Boys' high jump"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Habst-20241002140300-De-PRODing_2015_World_Youth_Championships_in_Athletics_–_Boys'_high_jump"></span>Hi, thank you for doing a PROD of <a href="/wiki/2015_World_Youth_Championships_in_Athletics_%E2%80%93_Boys%27_high_jump" title="2015 World Youth Championships in Athletics – Boys' high jump">2015 World Youth Championships in Athletics – Boys' high jump</a>. I took a look at the article, and I don't think the PROD was justified. Part of the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:PRODNOM" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:PRODNOM">WP:PRODNOM</a> process is to consider <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:ATD" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:ATD">alternatives to deletion</a> before nomination, which includes improving the page by editing it. I found several independent sources covering the competition in-depth, for example <a rel="nofollow" class="external autonumber" href="https://worldathletics.org/competitions/world-athletics-u18-championships/news/cali-2015-boys-high-jump1">[5]</a><a rel="nofollow" class="external autonumber" href="https://www.correre.it/mondiali-allievi-oro-di-sottile-nel-salto-in-alto/">[6]</a><a rel="nofollow" class="external autonumber" href="https://uzathletics.uz/news/news_post/9th-iaaf-world-youth-championships-4-den">[7]</a><a rel="nofollow" class="external autonumber" href="https://www.gazzetta.it/Atletica/19-07-2015/atletica-mondiali-allievi-colombia-sottile-salto-sull-oro-dell-alto-220-120618419170.shtml?refresh_ce-cp">[8]</a><a rel="nofollow" class="external autonumber" href="https://www.atleticabergamo59.it/press/150720Gazzetta.pdf">[9]</a>, so I added them to the article. Thanks, --<a href="/wiki/User:Habst" title="User:Habst">Habst</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Habst" title="User talk:Habst">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Fram#c-Habst-20241002140300-De-PRODing_2015_World_Youth_Championships_in_Athletics_–_Boys'_high_jump" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">14:03, 2 October 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Habst-20241002140300-De-PRODing_2015_World_Youth_Championships_in_Athletics_–_Boys'_high_jump"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Habst-20241002140300-De-PRODing_2015_World_Youth_Championships_in_Athletics_–_Boys'_high_jump"></span> </p> <dl><dd><a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://uzathletics.uz/news/news_post/9th-iaaf-world-youth-championships-4-den"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Fram-20241002142100-Habst-20241002140300"></span>This</a> is hardly "in-depth" coverage of the Boys' high jump competition though. And <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://worldathletics.org/competitions/world-athletics-u18-championships/news/cali-2015-boys-high-jump1">this</a> obviously isn't independent so doesn't help for notability either. The others are comparable to what we had at the linked other AfD, i.e. discussion of one competitor, not really a discussion of the competition. <a href="/wiki/User:Fram" class="mw-redirect" title="User:Fram">Fram</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Fram#c-Fram-20241002142100-Habst-20241002140300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">14:21, 2 October 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Fram-20241002142100-Habst-20241002140300"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Fram-20241002142100-Habst-20241002140300"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Habst-20241002152700-Fram-20241002142100"></span>Thanks -- that's fine, I just think the appropriate venue for discussion of these differences is at AfD. The gazzetta.it and corriere.it coverage certainly discuss many competitors, including all the medalists which is the focus of the article. I can't perform machine translation of the newspaper scan but it looks like many competitors are discussed there as well. --<a href="/wiki/User:Habst" title="User:Habst">Habst</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Habst" title="User talk:Habst">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Fram#c-Habst-20241002152700-Fram-20241002142100" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:27, 2 October 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Habst-20241002152700-Fram-20241002142100"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Habst-20241002152700-Fram-20241002142100"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Speedy_deletion_nomination_of_Category:1342_in_art" data-mw-thread-id="h-Speedy_deletion_nomination_of_Category:1342_in_art-20241003013000"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Speedy_deletion_nomination_of_Category:1342_in_art-20241003013000"></span><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Criteria_for_speedy_deletion" title="Wikipedia:Criteria for speedy deletion">Speedy deletion</a> nomination of <a href="/wiki/Category:1342_in_art" title="Category:1342 in art">Category:1342 in art</a><span data-mw-comment-end="h-Speedy_deletion_nomination_of_Category:1342_in_art-20241003013000"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Fram&action=edit&section=21" title="Edit section: Speedy deletion nomination of Category:1342 in art"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Explicit-20241003013000-Speedy_deletion_nomination_of_Category:1342_in_art"></span><figure class="mw-halign-left" typeof="mw:File"><span><img alt="" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/1/15/Ambox_warning_pn.svg/48px-Ambox_warning_pn.svg.png" decoding="async" width="48" height="42" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/1/15/Ambox_warning_pn.svg/72px-Ambox_warning_pn.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/1/15/Ambox_warning_pn.svg/96px-Ambox_warning_pn.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="512" data-file-height="445"/></span><figcaption></figcaption></figure> <p>A tag has been placed on <a href="/wiki/Category:1342_in_art" title="Category:1342 in art">Category:1342 in art</a> indicating that it is currently empty, and is not a <a href="/wiki/Category:Disambiguation_categories" title="Category:Disambiguation categories">disambiguation category</a>, a <a href="/wiki/Category:Wikipedia_soft_redirected_categories" title="Category:Wikipedia soft redirected categories">category redirect</a>, under discussion at <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion" title="Wikipedia:Categories for discussion">Categories for discussion</a>, or a project category that by its nature may become empty on occasion. If it remains empty for seven days or more, it may be deleted under <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:CSD#C1" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:CSD">section C1 of the criteria for speedy deletion</a>. </p><p>If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason you may <b>contest the nomination</b> by <a href="/wiki/Category:1342_in_art" title="Category:1342 in art">visiting the page</a> and removing the speedy deletion tag. <a href="/wiki/User:Explicit" title="User:Explicit"><span style="color:#000000">✗</span></a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Explicit" title="User talk:Explicit"><span style="color:white;background:black;font-family:felix titling;font-size:80%">plicit</span></a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Fram#c-Explicit-20241003013000-Speedy_deletion_nomination_of_Category:1342_in_art" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:30, 3 October 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Explicit-20241003013000-Speedy_deletion_nomination_of_Category:1342_in_art"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Explicit-20241003013000-Speedy_deletion_nomination_of_Category:1342_in_art"></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Speedy_deletion_nomination_of_Category:1344_in_art" data-mw-thread-id="h-Speedy_deletion_nomination_of_Category:1344_in_art-20241003013000"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Speedy_deletion_nomination_of_Category:1344_in_art-20241003013000"></span><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Criteria_for_speedy_deletion" title="Wikipedia:Criteria for speedy deletion">Speedy deletion</a> nomination of <a href="/wiki/Category:1344_in_art" title="Category:1344 in art">Category:1344 in art</a><span data-mw-comment-end="h-Speedy_deletion_nomination_of_Category:1344_in_art-20241003013000"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Fram&action=edit&section=22" title="Edit section: Speedy deletion nomination of Category:1344 in art"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Explicit-20241003013000-Speedy_deletion_nomination_of_Category:1344_in_art"></span><figure class="mw-halign-left" typeof="mw:File"><span><img alt="" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/1/15/Ambox_warning_pn.svg/48px-Ambox_warning_pn.svg.png" decoding="async" width="48" height="42" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/1/15/Ambox_warning_pn.svg/72px-Ambox_warning_pn.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/1/15/Ambox_warning_pn.svg/96px-Ambox_warning_pn.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="512" data-file-height="445"/></span><figcaption></figcaption></figure> <p>A tag has been placed on <a href="/wiki/Category:1344_in_art" title="Category:1344 in art">Category:1344 in art</a> indicating that it is currently empty, and is not a <a href="/wiki/Category:Disambiguation_categories" title="Category:Disambiguation categories">disambiguation category</a>, a <a href="/wiki/Category:Wikipedia_soft_redirected_categories" title="Category:Wikipedia soft redirected categories">category redirect</a>, under discussion at <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion" title="Wikipedia:Categories for discussion">Categories for discussion</a>, or a project category that by its nature may become empty on occasion. If it remains empty for seven days or more, it may be deleted under <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:CSD#C1" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:CSD">section C1 of the criteria for speedy deletion</a>. </p><p>If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason you may <b>contest the nomination</b> by <a href="/wiki/Category:1344_in_art" title="Category:1344 in art">visiting the page</a> and removing the speedy deletion tag. <a href="/wiki/User:Explicit" title="User:Explicit"><span style="color:#000000">✗</span></a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Explicit" title="User talk:Explicit"><span style="color:white;background:black;font-family:felix titling;font-size:80%">plicit</span></a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Fram#c-Explicit-20241003013000-Speedy_deletion_nomination_of_Category:1344_in_art" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:30, 3 October 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Explicit-20241003013000-Speedy_deletion_nomination_of_Category:1344_in_art"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Explicit-20241003013000-Speedy_deletion_nomination_of_Category:1344_in_art"></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Speedy_deletion_nomination_of_Category:1414_in_art" data-mw-thread-id="h-Speedy_deletion_nomination_of_Category:1414_in_art-20241003013000"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Speedy_deletion_nomination_of_Category:1414_in_art-20241003013000"></span><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Criteria_for_speedy_deletion" title="Wikipedia:Criteria for speedy deletion">Speedy deletion</a> nomination of <a href="/wiki/Category:1414_in_art" title="Category:1414 in art">Category:1414 in art</a><span data-mw-comment-end="h-Speedy_deletion_nomination_of_Category:1414_in_art-20241003013000"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Fram&action=edit&section=23" title="Edit section: Speedy deletion nomination of Category:1414 in art"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Explicit-20241003013000-Speedy_deletion_nomination_of_Category:1414_in_art"></span><figure class="mw-halign-left" typeof="mw:File"><span><img alt="" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/1/15/Ambox_warning_pn.svg/48px-Ambox_warning_pn.svg.png" decoding="async" width="48" height="42" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/1/15/Ambox_warning_pn.svg/72px-Ambox_warning_pn.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/1/15/Ambox_warning_pn.svg/96px-Ambox_warning_pn.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="512" data-file-height="445"/></span><figcaption></figcaption></figure> <p>A tag has been placed on <a href="/wiki/Category:1414_in_art" title="Category:1414 in art">Category:1414 in art</a> indicating that it is currently empty, and is not a <a href="/wiki/Category:Disambiguation_categories" title="Category:Disambiguation categories">disambiguation category</a>, a <a href="/wiki/Category:Wikipedia_soft_redirected_categories" title="Category:Wikipedia soft redirected categories">category redirect</a>, under discussion at <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion" title="Wikipedia:Categories for discussion">Categories for discussion</a>, or a project category that by its nature may become empty on occasion. If it remains empty for seven days or more, it may be deleted under <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:CSD#C1" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:CSD">section C1 of the criteria for speedy deletion</a>. </p><p>If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason you may <b>contest the nomination</b> by <a href="/wiki/Category:1414_in_art" title="Category:1414 in art">visiting the page</a> and removing the speedy deletion tag. <a href="/wiki/User:Explicit" title="User:Explicit"><span style="color:#000000">✗</span></a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Explicit" title="User talk:Explicit"><span style="color:white;background:black;font-family:felix titling;font-size:80%">plicit</span></a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Fram#c-Explicit-20241003013000-Speedy_deletion_nomination_of_Category:1414_in_art" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:30, 3 October 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Explicit-20241003013000-Speedy_deletion_nomination_of_Category:1414_in_art"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Explicit-20241003013000-Speedy_deletion_nomination_of_Category:1414_in_art"></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="My_formal_apology_regarding_something_you_don't_care_about_(or_even_remember)" data-mw-thread-id="h-My_formal_apology_regarding_something_you_don't_care_about_(or_even_remember)-20241009063800"><span id="My_formal_apology_regarding_something_you_don.27t_care_about_.28or_even_remember.29"></span><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-My_formal_apology_regarding_something_you_don't_care_about_(or_even_remember)-20241009063800"></span>My formal apology regarding something you don't care about (or even remember)<span data-mw-comment-end="h-My_formal_apology_regarding_something_you_don't_care_about_(or_even_remember)-20241009063800"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Fram&action=edit&section=24" title="Edit section: My formal apology regarding something you don't care about (or even remember)"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Miscellany_for_deletion/Wikipedia:Stop_Trying" title="Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/Wikipedia:Stop Trying"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Panini!-20241009063800-My_formal_apology_regarding_something_you_don't_care_about_(or_even_remember)"></span>Remember this</a>? Yeah, sorry about that. 4 years ago from now I was fresh into 9th grade when I wrote this article. I was very upset that it was deleted because I thought it was very funny. In fact, when I got the notification I chose not to look at it, and haven't looked at it since to spare myself the embarrassment. I've chose to keep it swept under the rug, but now I've decided to finally just own up to it. Pinging <a href="/wiki/User:Johnuniq" title="User:Johnuniq">Johnuniq</a>, <a href="/wiki/User:Bduke" title="User:Bduke">Bduke</a>, <a href="/wiki/User:Thy_Pyrometer" class="mw-redirect" title="User:Thy Pyrometer">Thy Pyrometer</a>, <a href="/wiki/User:SmokeyJoe" title="User:SmokeyJoe">SmokeyJoe</a>, and <a href="/wiki/User:Hut_8.5" title="User:Hut 8.5">Hut 8.5</a> who all commented on the MfD. Not that this matters at all, I'm just doing it for my sake, so I can finally stop pretending like this didn't happen. </p><p>This is me self-trouting myself for creating such a stupid article in the first place. I apologize for making it, and wasting your time with lousy, 9th-grader humor. I'm certain the article was a hard read. I think the worst part of all for me was that I cracked jokes at the expense of others, which looking back I did quite a lot unfortunately. I try to lead my life with a high regard to humility. I'm a changed man. I am funny now, I swear. I'm also very humble now. Very. No barnstars, please. </p><p>4 years may not seem like much of an age difference, but maturity-wise for teens it definitely is, and I hope you could forgive me for such a blunder. I hope you all can see me in a new light? Beyond whatever this article was? Because at this point I don't even remember what the article looked like (and at this point I never do). <a href="/wiki/User:Panini!" title="User:Panini!"><span style="color:#F40">Panini!</span></a> <span style="color:#F40">•</span> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Panini!" title="User talk:Panini!">🥪</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Fram#c-Panini!-20241009063800-My_formal_apology_regarding_something_you_don't_care_about_(or_even_remember)" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">06:38, 9 October 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Panini!-20241009063800-My_formal_apology_regarding_something_you_don't_care_about_(or_even_remember)"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Panini!-20241009063800-My_formal_apology_regarding_something_you_don't_care_about_(or_even_remember)"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Johnuniq-20241009072600-Panini!-20241009063800"></span>Hey, no problem, happy editing! <a href="/wiki/User:Johnuniq" title="User:Johnuniq">Johnuniq</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Johnuniq" title="User talk:Johnuniq">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Fram#c-Johnuniq-20241009072600-Panini!-20241009063800" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">07:26, 9 October 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Johnuniq-20241009072600-Panini!-20241009063800"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Johnuniq-20241009072600-Panini!-20241009063800"></span></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="English_Qaballa" data-mw-thread-id="h-English_Qaballa-20241015152200"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-English_Qaballa-20241015152200"></span>English Qaballa<span data-mw-comment-end="h-English_Qaballa-20241015152200"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Fram&action=edit&section=25" title="Edit section: English Qaballa"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Skyerise-20241015152200-English_Qaballa"></span>The sources say "discovered". Again, if you want to change it to "invented", you need to supply a source. Please stop edit warring without sources. <a href="/wiki/User:Skyerise" title="User:Skyerise">Skyerise</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Skyerise" title="User talk:Skyerise">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Fram#c-Skyerise-20241015152200-English_Qaballa" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:22, 15 October 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Skyerise-20241015152200-English_Qaballa"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Skyerise-20241015152200-English_Qaballa"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Fram-20241015171900-Skyerise-20241015152200"></span>I asked for a reliable source for "discovered", and you provided Cath Thompson, "an English Qaballist and Stellar Magickian of thirty-seven years experience"<a rel="nofollow" class="external autonumber" href="https://www.occultlibrary.org/caththompson">[10]</a>, neither an independent nor a reliable source. <a href="/wiki/User:Fram" class="mw-redirect" title="User:Fram">Fram</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Fram#c-Fram-20241015171900-Skyerise-20241015152200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:19, 15 October 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Fram-20241015171900-Skyerise-20241015152200"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Fram-20241015171900-Skyerise-20241015152200"></span></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Speedy_deletion_nomination_of_Category:2010_establishments_in_Saint_Vincent_and_the_Grenadines" data-mw-thread-id="h-Speedy_deletion_nomination_of_Category:2010_establishments_in_Saint_Vincent_and-20241015172700"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Speedy_deletion_nomination_of_Category:2010_establishments_in_Saint_Vincent_and-20241015172700"></span><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Criteria_for_speedy_deletion" title="Wikipedia:Criteria for speedy deletion">Speedy deletion</a> nomination of <a href="/wiki/Category:2010_establishments_in_Saint_Vincent_and_the_Grenadines" title="Category:2010 establishments in Saint Vincent and the Grenadines">Category:2010 establishments in Saint Vincent and the Grenadines</a><span data-mw-comment-end="h-Speedy_deletion_nomination_of_Category:2010_establishments_in_Saint_Vincent_and-20241015172700"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Fram&action=edit&section=26" title="Edit section: Speedy deletion nomination of Category:2010 establishments in Saint Vincent and the Grenadines"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Liz-20241015172700-Speedy_deletion_nomination_of_Category:2010_establishments_in_Saint_Vincent_and"></span><figure class="mw-halign-left" typeof="mw:File"><span><img alt="" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/1/15/Ambox_warning_pn.svg/48px-Ambox_warning_pn.svg.png" decoding="async" width="48" height="42" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/1/15/Ambox_warning_pn.svg/72px-Ambox_warning_pn.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/1/15/Ambox_warning_pn.svg/96px-Ambox_warning_pn.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="512" data-file-height="445"/></span><figcaption></figcaption></figure> <p>A tag has been placed on <a href="/wiki/Category:2010_establishments_in_Saint_Vincent_and_the_Grenadines" title="Category:2010 establishments in Saint Vincent and the Grenadines">Category:2010 establishments in Saint Vincent and the Grenadines</a> indicating that it is currently empty, and is not a <a href="/wiki/Category:Disambiguation_categories" title="Category:Disambiguation categories">disambiguation category</a>, a <a href="/wiki/Category:Wikipedia_soft_redirected_categories" title="Category:Wikipedia soft redirected categories">category redirect</a>, under discussion at <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion" title="Wikipedia:Categories for discussion">Categories for discussion</a>, or a project category that by its nature may become empty on occasion. If it remains empty for seven days or more, it may be deleted under <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:CSD#C1" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:CSD">section C1 of the criteria for speedy deletion</a>. </p><p>If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason you may <b>contest the nomination</b> by <a href="/wiki/Category:2010_establishments_in_Saint_Vincent_and_the_Grenadines" title="Category:2010 establishments in Saint Vincent and the Grenadines">visiting the page</a> and removing the speedy deletion tag. <span style="font-family:Papyrus; color:#800080;"><a href="/wiki/User:Liz" title="User:Liz"><i><b>L</b></i>iz</a></span> <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;"><a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Liz" title="Special:Contributions/Liz"><i><b>Read!</b></i></a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Liz" title="User talk:Liz"><i><b>Talk!</b></i></a></sup> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Fram#c-Liz-20241015172700-Speedy_deletion_nomination_of_Category:2010_establishments_in_Saint_Vincent_and" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:27, 15 October 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Liz-20241015172700-Speedy_deletion_nomination_of_Category:2010_establishments_in_Saint_Vincent_and"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Liz-20241015172700-Speedy_deletion_nomination_of_Category:2010_establishments_in_Saint_Vincent_and"></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Invitation_to_participate_in_a_research" data-mw-thread-id="h-Invitation_to_participate_in_a_research-20241023192800"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Invitation_to_participate_in_a_research-20241023192800"></span>Invitation to participate in a research<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Invitation_to_participate_in_a_research-20241023192800"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Fram&action=edit&section=27" title="Edit section: Invitation to participate in a research"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-BGerdemann_(WMF)-20241023192800-Invitation_to_participate_in_a_research"></span>Hello, </p><p>The Wikimedia Foundation is conducting a survey of Wikipedians to better understand what draws administrators to contribute to Wikipedia, and what affects administrator retention. We will use this research to improve experiences for Wikipedians, and address common problems and needs. We have identified you as a good candidate for this research, and would greatly appreciate your participation in this <b><a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://wikimediafoundation.limesurvey.net/962595?lang=en">anonymous survey</a></b>. </p><p>You do not have to be an Administrator to participate. </p><p>The survey should take around 10-15 minutes to complete. You may read more about the study on its <a href="https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:MyLanguage/Research:Wikipedia_Administrator_Recruitment,_Retention,_and_Attrition" class="extiw" title="m:Special:MyLanguage/Research:Wikipedia Administrator Recruitment, Retention, and Attrition">Meta page</a> and view its <a href="https://foundation.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:MyLanguage/Legal:Administrator_Experiences_2024_Survey_Privacy_Statement" class="extiw" title="wmf:Special:MyLanguage/Legal:Administrator Experiences 2024 Survey Privacy Statement">privacy statement</a> . </p><p>Please find our contact on the project Meta page if you have any questions or concerns. </p><p>Kind Regards, </p><p><a href="https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Special:MyLanguage/Wikimedia_Research" class="extiw" title="mw:Special:MyLanguage/Wikimedia Research">WMF Research Team</a> </p><p><bdi lang="en" dir="ltr"><a href="/wiki/User:BGerdemann_(WMF)" title="User:BGerdemann (WMF)">BGerdemann (WMF)</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:BGerdemann_(WMF)" title="User talk:BGerdemann (WMF)">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Fram#c-BGerdemann_(WMF)-20241023192800-Invitation_to_participate_in_a_research" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:28, 23 October 2024 (UTC)</a> </bdi><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-BGerdemann_(WMF)-20241023192800-Invitation_to_participate_in_a_research"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-BGerdemann_(WMF)-20241023192800-Invitation_to_participate_in_a_research"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span class="template-ping"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Fram-20241024074800-BGerdemann_(WMF)-20241023192800"></span>@<a href="/wiki/User:UOzurumba_(WMF)" title="User:UOzurumba (WMF)">UOzurumba (WMF)</a>:</span> you are probably only the messenger, so this message is in general, not specifically for you: but do you have any idea how fucking offensive it is to ask the only admin you (WMF) have desysopped out of process, with a total lack of evidence, without a chance to defend themselves, while spreading false rumours of "off-wiki" evidence, and probably based on requests from people from the WMF inner circle, "what affects administrator retention"??? <a href="/wiki/User:Fram" class="mw-redirect" title="User:Fram">Fram</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Fram#c-Fram-20241024074800-BGerdemann_(WMF)-20241023192800" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">07:48, 24 October 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Fram-20241024074800-BGerdemann_(WMF)-20241023192800"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Fram-20241024074800-BGerdemann_(WMF)-20241023192800"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-BGerdemann_(WMF)-20241104193900-Fram-20241024074800"></span>@<a href="/wiki/User:Fram" class="mw-redirect" title="User:Fram">Fram</a>. I apologize for any confusion and offense we may have caused. The project meta page describes the definitions we used to guide our queries, and though we took a lot of time and care to arrive at the criteria, we obviously missed some considerations. In your case, your username was part of the random sample drawn from the en.wiki potential admin category (which is to say, people who meet the general requirements to be an admin but aren't. We did not take into account why each person wasn't). Regardless of your specific situation, we would still like to hear from you in the survey if you are willing to respond. If we re-run this survey, we will do our best to take into account the history of people's admin status when compiling our samples. <a href="/wiki/User:BGerdemann_(WMF)" title="User:BGerdemann (WMF)">BGerdemann (WMF)</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:BGerdemann_(WMF)" title="User talk:BGerdemann (WMF)">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Fram#c-BGerdemann_(WMF)-20241104193900-Fram-20241024074800" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:39, 4 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-BGerdemann_(WMF)-20241104193900-Fram-20241024074800"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-BGerdemann_(WMF)-20241104193900-Fram-20241024074800"></span> <dl><dd><span class="template-ping"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Fram-20241105081800-BGerdemann_(WMF)-20241104193900"></span>@<a href="/wiki/User:BGerdemann_(WMF)" title="User:BGerdemann (WMF)">BGerdemann (WMF)</a>:</span> thank you for coming here and the apology, it's never easy coming someone where you (or your organisation) gets scolded. I'll not respond in the survey, but thank you anyway. <a href="/wiki/User:Fram" class="mw-redirect" title="User:Fram">Fram</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Fram#c-Fram-20241105081800-BGerdemann_(WMF)-20241104193900" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">08:18, 5 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Fram-20241105081800-BGerdemann_(WMF)-20241104193900"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Fram-20241105081800-BGerdemann_(WMF)-20241104193900"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd> <dd><span class="template-ping"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Fram-20241024075000-BGerdemann_(WMF)-20241023192800"></span>@<a href="/wiki/User:BGerdemann_(WMF)" title="User:BGerdemann (WMF)">BGerdemann (WMF)</a>:</span> as somehow you have signed this, but haven't sent this? <a href="/wiki/User:Fram" class="mw-redirect" title="User:Fram">Fram</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Fram#c-Fram-20241024075000-BGerdemann_(WMF)-20241023192800" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">07:50, 24 October 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Fram-20241024075000-BGerdemann_(WMF)-20241023192800"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Fram-20241024075000-BGerdemann_(WMF)-20241023192800"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Graham87-20241024095700-Fram-20241024075000"></span>It's the <a href="https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/MassMessage" class="extiw" title="m:MassMessage">MassMessage</a> extension, just like, um, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Arbitration_Committee/Noticeboard/Archive_40#Return_of_permissions_to_administrators_notice" title="Wikipedia talk:Arbitration Committee/Noticeboard/Archive 40">this ArbCom fiasco</a>, except this time used on a global scale. Per <a href="https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:redirect/logid/57660383" class="extiw" title="m:Special:redirect/logid/57660383">this log entry</a>, you were listed at the Meta page <a href="https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/UOzurumba_(WMF)/sandbox_Research_announcement_list_for_enwiki_Potential_Admins" class="extiw" title="m:UOzurumba (WMF)/sandbox Research announcement list for enwiki Potential Admins">UOzurumba (WMF)/sandbox Research announcement list for enwiki Potential Admins</a> (yes, with that namespace), presumably because of your edit count. <a href="/wiki/User:Graham87" title="User:Graham87">Graham87</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Graham87" title="User talk:Graham87">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Fram#c-Graham87-20241024095700-Fram-20241024075000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">09:57, 24 October 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Graham87-20241024095700-Fram-20241024075000"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Graham87-20241024095700-Fram-20241024075000"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Fram-20241024103500-Graham87-20241024095700"></span>One would hope that they would look beyond mere edit count, but oh well... <a href="/wiki/User:Fram" class="mw-redirect" title="User:Fram">Fram</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Fram#c-Fram-20241024103500-Graham87-20241024095700" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">10:35, 24 October 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Fram-20241024103500-Graham87-20241024095700"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Fram-20241024103500-Graham87-20241024095700"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Yngvadottir-20241027221400-Fram-20241024103500"></span>Saw this accidentally. I did the survey, and one screen is all about why one hasn't run for admin. I am also a former admin, so this was annoying. Off-wiki, an admin who was selected to do the survey says the corresponding screen in the version they got was about whether they enjoy being an admin. WMF staffers are horribly, insultingly oblivious. In addition ... the survey I got asked me whether I had done moderation/admin work on other websites. And had a box to list them! <div class="paragraphbreak" style="margin-top:0.5em"></div>Have you ever received an apology from the WMF for being desysopped and blocked? <a href="/wiki/User:Yngvadottir" title="User:Yngvadottir">Yngvadottir</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Yngvadottir" title="User talk:Yngvadottir">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Fram#c-Yngvadottir-20241027221400-Fram-20241024103500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:14, 27 October 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Yngvadottir-20241027221400-Fram-20241024103500"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Yngvadottir-20241027221400-Fram-20241024103500"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Fram-20241028074500-Yngvadottir-20241027221400"></span>I didn't even receive an apology for this invitation, never mind for the ban (quite an honour to be the only one ever to receive that kind of ban though). I don't expect one either, an explanation would be a nice start. That the survey is problematic doesn't come as a surprise, and the conclusions they will draw from it will not follow from the raw numbers at all, if it follows the habits they acquired over the years. <a href="/wiki/User:Fram" class="mw-redirect" title="User:Fram">Fram</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Fram#c-Fram-20241028074500-Yngvadottir-20241027221400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">07:45, 28 October 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Fram-20241028074500-Yngvadottir-20241027221400"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Fram-20241028074500-Yngvadottir-20241027221400"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Yngvadottir-20241028093900-Fram-20241028074500"></span>Yeah, they are so consistently incompetent, it's effectively part of their identity. That's shameful. I had hoped someone from the WMF would at least have apologised to you personally. <a href="/wiki/User:Yngvadottir" title="User:Yngvadottir">Yngvadottir</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Yngvadottir" title="User talk:Yngvadottir">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Fram#c-Yngvadottir-20241028093900-Fram-20241028074500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">09:39, 28 October 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Yngvadottir-20241028093900-Fram-20241028074500"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Yngvadottir-20241028093900-Fram-20241028074500"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Andy_Dingley-20241028152200-Invitation_to_participate_in_a_research"></span><span typeof="mw:File"><span><img alt="Information icon" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/1/1d/Information_icon4.svg/25px-Information_icon4.svg.png" decoding="async" width="25" height="25" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/1/1d/Information_icon4.svg/38px-Information_icon4.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/1/1d/Information_icon4.svg/50px-Information_icon4.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="620" data-file-height="620"/></span></span> There is currently a discussion at <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Incidents" title="Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents">Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents</a> regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you. <a href="/wiki/User:Andy_Dingley" title="User:Andy Dingley">Andy Dingley</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Andy_Dingley" title="User talk:Andy Dingley">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Fram#c-Andy_Dingley-20241028152200-Invitation_to_participate_in_a_research" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:22, 28 October 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Andy_Dingley-20241028152200-Invitation_to_participate_in_a_research"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Andy_Dingley-20241028152200-Invitation_to_participate_in_a_research"></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Speedy_deletion_nomination_of_Dawn's_Landscape_XL" data-mw-thread-id="h-Speedy_deletion_nomination_of_Dawn's_Landscape_XL-20241029153700"><span id="Speedy_deletion_nomination_of_Dawn.27s_Landscape_XL"></span><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Speedy_deletion_nomination_of_Dawn's_Landscape_XL-20241029153700"></span>Speedy deletion nomination of Dawn's Landscape XL<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Speedy_deletion_nomination_of_Dawn's_Landscape_XL-20241029153700"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Fram&action=edit&section=28" title="Edit section: Speedy deletion nomination of Dawn's Landscape XL"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-CFA-20241029153700-Speedy_deletion_nomination_of_Dawn's_Landscape_XL"></span>Hello Fram, </p><p>I wanted to let you know that I just tagged <a href="/wiki/Dawn%27s_Landscape_XL" title="Dawn's Landscape XL">Dawn's Landscape XL</a> for deletion, because it's a redirect from an article title to a <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Namespace" title="Wikipedia:Namespace">namespace</a> that's not for articles. </p><p>If you don't want Dawn's Landscape XL to be deleted, you can <span class="plainlinks"><b><a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk%3ADawn%27s+Landscape+XL&action=edit&section=new&preload=Template:Hangon_preload&preloadtitle=This+page+should+not+be+speedy+deleted+because...+">contest this deletion</a></b></span>, but don't remove the speedy deletion tag from the top. </p><p>You can leave a note on <a href="/wiki/User_talk:CFA" title="User talk:CFA">my talk page</a> if you have questions. Thanks! </p><p><small>Message delivered via the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Page_Curation/Help" title="Wikipedia:Page Curation/Help">Page Curation</a> tool, on behalf of the reviewer.</small> </p><p><span style="white-space:nowrap;"><a href="/wiki/User:CFA" title="User:CFA"><span style="background-color:#e0f7fa;padding:2px 5px;border-radius:5px;font-family:Arial black"><span style="color:#00c">C</span> <span style="color:red">F</span> <span style="color:#5ac18e">A</span></span></a> <span style="background-color:#e6e6fa;padding:2px 5px;border-radius:5px;font-family:Arial black"><a href="/wiki/User_talk:CFA" title="User talk:CFA">💬</a></span></span> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Fram#c-CFA-20241029153700-Speedy_deletion_nomination_of_Dawn's_Landscape_XL" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:37, 29 October 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-CFA-20241029153700-Speedy_deletion_nomination_of_Dawn's_Landscape_XL"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-CFA-20241029153700-Speedy_deletion_nomination_of_Dawn's_Landscape_XL"></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Resubmitting_drafts" data-mw-thread-id="h-Resubmitting_drafts-20241030190600"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Resubmitting_drafts-20241030190600"></span>Resubmitting drafts<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Resubmitting_drafts-20241030190600"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Fram&action=edit&section=29" title="Edit section: Resubmitting drafts"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-S0091-20241030190600-Resubmitting_drafts"></span>Hi again Fram. I am posting this here rather than Safari's tp because it has nothing to do with their reviews. If you want to resubmit a draft on behalf of another user, you can use {{subst:submit|Creator's username}}, then accept (or even if you are not sure but think another review is warranted by another reviewer). The other option is to click the Resubmit button then change the User (u=) from your name to theirs. That way they will get the AfC communications rather than you. <a href="/wiki/User:S0091" title="User:S0091">S0091</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:S0091" title="User talk:S0091">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Fram#c-S0091-20241030190600-Resubmitting_drafts" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:06, 30 October 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-S0091-20241030190600-Resubmitting_drafts"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-S0091-20241030190600-Resubmitting_drafts"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Fram-20241031082100-S0091-20241030190600"></span>Thanks! <a href="/wiki/User:Fram" class="mw-redirect" title="User:Fram">Fram</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Fram#c-Fram-20241031082100-S0091-20241030190600" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">08:21, 31 October 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Fram-20241031082100-S0091-20241030190600"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Fram-20241031082100-S0091-20241030190600"></span></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Upcoming_expiry_of_your_ipblock-exempt_right" data-mw-thread-id="h-Upcoming_expiry_of_your_ipblock-exempt_right-20241031063300"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Upcoming_expiry_of_your_ipblock-exempt_right-20241031063300"></span>Upcoming expiry of your ipblock-exempt right<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Upcoming_expiry_of_your_ipblock-exempt_right-20241031063300"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Fram&action=edit&section=30" title="Edit section: Upcoming expiry of your ipblock-exempt right"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Leaderbot-20241031063300-Upcoming_expiry_of_your_ipblock-exempt_right"></span>Hi, this is an automated reminder as part of <a href="https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Global_reminder_bot" class="extiw" title="metawiki:Global reminder bot">Global reminder bot</a> to let you know that your <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:IPBE" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:IPBE">WP:IPBE</a> right which gave you the ability to bypass IP address blocks will expire on 17:57, 6 November 2024 (UTC). If your IP is still blocked (which you can test by trying to edit when logged-out), please renew by following the instructions at the IPBE page; otherwise, you do not need to do anything. <small><span style="color:gray">To opt out of user right expiry notifications, add yourself to <a href="https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Global_reminder_bot/Exclusion" class="extiw" title="m:Global reminder bot/Exclusion">m:Global reminder bot/Exclusion</a>.</span></small> <a href="/wiki/User:Leaderbot" title="User:Leaderbot">Leaderbot</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Leaderbot" class="mw-redirect" title="User talk:Leaderbot">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Fram#c-Leaderbot-20241031063300-Upcoming_expiry_of_your_ipblock-exempt_right" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">06:33, 31 October 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Leaderbot-20241031063300-Upcoming_expiry_of_your_ipblock-exempt_right"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Leaderbot-20241031063300-Upcoming_expiry_of_your_ipblock-exempt_right"></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="@Fram_taking_up_the_battle_vs_SafariScribe" data-mw-thread-id="h-@Fram_taking_up_the_battle_vs_SafariScribe-20241031145500"><span id=".40Fram_taking_up_the_battle_vs_SafariScribe"></span><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-@Fram_taking_up_the_battle_vs_SafariScribe-20241031145500"></span>@Fram taking up the battle vs SafariScribe<span data-mw-comment-end="h-@Fram_taking_up_the_battle_vs_SafariScribe-20241031145500"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Fram&action=edit&section=31" title="Edit section: @Fram taking up the battle vs SafariScribe"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Refineryguycanada-20241031145500-@Fram_taking_up_the_battle_vs_SafariScribe"></span>Hello @Fram - thank you for taking the battle for the newbies against SafariScribe. I received a rejection from SafariScriber a few days ago on <a href="/wiki/Draft:Phil_Rinaldi" class="mw-redirect" title="Draft:Phil Rinaldi">Draft:Phil Rinaldi</a> based on WP:CNG and possible promotional tone. The article is not promotional at all and I doubt that Rinaldi would be very happy to see it. However, it is about a important man who has flown under the radar for decades while controlling very large businesses (some with bad outcomes). I read your research thread on SafariScribe's talk page and feel that something is a bit off with the reviewer. I would like to get your opinion on my article if you have time. Best regards. Also I see that S0091 is in the mix above (I have history with the editor and respect his/her opinions). <a href="/wiki/User:Refineryguycanada" title="User:Refineryguycanada">Refineryguycanada</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Refineryguycanada" title="User talk:Refineryguycanada">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Fram#c-Refineryguycanada-20241031145500-@Fram_taking_up_the_battle_vs_SafariScribe" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">14:55, 31 October 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Refineryguycanada-20241031145500-@Fram_taking_up_the_battle_vs_SafariScribe"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Refineryguycanada-20241031145500-@Fram_taking_up_the_battle_vs_SafariScribe"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Fram-20241031153900-Refineryguycanada-20241031145500"></span>I've raised the issue at <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Articles_for_creation" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Articles for creation">Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Articles for creation</a>. <a href="/wiki/User:Fram" class="mw-redirect" title="User:Fram">Fram</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Fram#c-Fram-20241031153900-Refineryguycanada-20241031145500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:39, 31 October 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Fram-20241031153900-Refineryguycanada-20241031145500"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Fram-20241031153900-Refineryguycanada-20241031145500"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Refineryguycanada-20241031171300-Fram-20241031153900"></span>Thanks. I just read your post. I will hope for the best.</dd> <dd>Please do take a look at my Phil Rinaldi article and let me know if you think I have problems with it when you can. Best regards <a href="/wiki/User:Refineryguycanada" title="User:Refineryguycanada">Refineryguycanada</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Refineryguycanada" title="User talk:Refineryguycanada">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Fram#c-Refineryguycanada-20241031171300-Fram-20241031153900" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:13, 31 October 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Refineryguycanada-20241031171300-Fram-20241031153900"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Refineryguycanada-20241031171300-Fram-20241031153900"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Capitalization_campaign?" data-mw-thread-id="h-Capitalization_campaign?-20241104162500"><span id="Capitalization_campaign.3F"></span><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Capitalization_campaign?-20241104162500"></span>Capitalization campaign?<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Capitalization_campaign?-20241104162500"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Fram&action=edit&section=32" title="Edit section: Capitalization campaign?"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Dicklyon-20241104162500-Capitalization_campaign?"></span>It's funny that you accuse me of a capitalization campaign. Mostly I'm going the other way, and being accused of a lowercasing campaign. In general, just trying to get it right, and to avoid piping through miscapitalized redirects such as <a href="/wiki/Ij_(digraph)" class="mw-redirect" title="Ij (digraph)">Ij (digraph)</a>. <a href="/wiki/User:Dicklyon" title="User:Dicklyon">Dicklyon</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Dicklyon" title="User talk:Dicklyon">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Fram#c-Dicklyon-20241104162500-Capitalization_campaign?" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:25, 4 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Dicklyon-20241104162500-Capitalization_campaign?"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Dicklyon-20241104162500-Capitalization_campaign?"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Fram-20241104164200-Dicklyon-20241104162500"></span>I know why you do it, and how you misuse "miscapitalization" (a lowercase character isn't a "miscapitalization" at all). And your campaign is <i>about</i> capitalization, whether uppercasing or lowercasing. You don't seem to have learned a lot from your previous blocks for all of this. <a href="/wiki/User:Fram" class="mw-redirect" title="User:Fram">Fram</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Fram#c-Fram-20241104164200-Dicklyon-20241104162500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:42, 4 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Fram-20241104164200-Dicklyon-20241104162500"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Fram-20241104164200-Dicklyon-20241104162500"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Fram-20241104164800-Fram-20241104164200"></span>It isn't even indicated as a miscapitalization (because, spoiler, it isn't), it is listed as an "other" capitalization, which you certainly should leave well alone. Aren't there enough actual errors on this website which you can focus on instead of this meaningless and annoying busybody work? <a href="/wiki/User:Fram" class="mw-redirect" title="User:Fram">Fram</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Fram#c-Fram-20241104164800-Fram-20241104164200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:48, 4 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Fram-20241104164800-Fram-20241104164200"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Fram-20241104164800-Fram-20241104164200"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Dicklyon-20241104183600-Fram-20241104164800"></span>It was tagged as a miscapitalization for a bit, until yesterday. Long enough for me to notice and do some fixes. The trouble is that the lowercase "ij" doesn't make a good article title as it comes out "Ij"; and piping is needed in any case, so there's no need to link the miscapitalized Ij. <a href="/wiki/User:Dicklyon" title="User:Dicklyon">Dicklyon</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Dicklyon" title="User talk:Dicklyon">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Fram#c-Dicklyon-20241104183600-Fram-20241104164800" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:36, 4 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Dicklyon-20241104183600-Fram-20241104164800"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Dicklyon-20241104183600-Fram-20241104164800"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Fram-20241104184400-Dicklyon-20241104183600"></span>No piping was or is needed, no idea why you keep repeating this. <a href="/wiki/User:Fram" class="mw-redirect" title="User:Fram">Fram</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Fram#c-Fram-20241104184400-Dicklyon-20241104183600" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:44, 4 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Fram-20241104184400-Dicklyon-20241104183600"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Fram-20241104184400-Dicklyon-20241104183600"></span></dd></dl></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Dicklyon-20241104183800-Fram-20241104164800"></span>Maybe <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Ij_(digraph)&action=history">this edit</a> will help. It at least makes the "other" somewhat more sensible. <a href="/wiki/User:Dicklyon" title="User:Dicklyon">Dicklyon</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Dicklyon" title="User talk:Dicklyon">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Fram#c-Dicklyon-20241104183800-Fram-20241104164800" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:38, 4 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Dicklyon-20241104183800-Fram-20241104164800"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Dicklyon-20241104183800-Fram-20241104164800"></span></dd></dl></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Hey_man_im_josh-20241106131800-Fram-20241104164200"></span>I've tried to explain the difference but it seems to fall on deaf ears. I regularly find myself fixing their usage of rcats for example. <a href="/wiki/User:Hey_man_im_josh" title="User:Hey man im josh">Hey man im josh</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Hey_man_im_josh" title="User talk:Hey man im josh">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Fram#c-Hey_man_im_josh-20241106131800-Fram-20241104164200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">13:18, 6 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Hey_man_im_josh-20241106131800-Fram-20241104164200"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Hey_man_im_josh-20241106131800-Fram-20241104164200"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Dicklyon-20241104183100-Capitalization_campaign?"></span>"Don't edit war" would also be my advice to you. The point of fixing links to miscapitalized redirects such as <a href="/wiki/Ij_(digraph)" class="mw-redirect" title="Ij (digraph)">Ij (digraph)</a> is to get them off the report of linked miscapitalizations. When such a link is piped, it's completely pointless to not instead pipe directly through the article title. If we don't fix such things, the maintenance report can't be whittle down, so serves no purpose. <a href="/wiki/User:Dicklyon" title="User:Dicklyon">Dicklyon</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Dicklyon" title="User talk:Dicklyon">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Fram#c-Dicklyon-20241104183100-Capitalization_campaign?" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:31, 4 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Dicklyon-20241104183100-Capitalization_campaign?"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Dicklyon-20241104183100-Capitalization_campaign?"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Fram-20241104183800-Dicklyon-20241104183100"></span>It isn't a miscapitalized redirect, it is a different, valid capitalization. if you have some maintenance report that includes links which have no issue at all and don't need any maintenance, then change your report, don't change the mainspace. We have had this discussion in the past already, you are not doing maintenance, you are just doing utterly pointless, watchlist- and history-polluting edits. I would urge you to stop this. <a href="/wiki/User:Fram" class="mw-redirect" title="User:Fram">Fram</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Fram#c-Fram-20241104183800-Dicklyon-20241104183100" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:38, 4 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Fram-20241104183800-Dicklyon-20241104183100"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Fram-20241104183800-Dicklyon-20241104183100"></span></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Let_me_just_add_the_sources,_what_kind_of_vandalising_are_you_talking_about?" data-mw-thread-id="h-Let_me_just_add_the_sources,_what_kind_of_vandalising_are_you_talking_about?-20241107154700"><span id="Let_me_just_add_the_sources.2C_what_kind_of_vandalising_are_you_talking_about.3F"></span><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Let_me_just_add_the_sources,_what_kind_of_vandalising_are_you_talking_about?-20241107154700"></span>Let me just add the sources, what kind of vandalising are you talking about?<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Let_me_just_add_the_sources,_what_kind_of_vandalising_are_you_talking_about?-20241107154700"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Fram&action=edit&section=33" title="Edit section: Let me just add the sources, what kind of vandalising are you talking about?"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-NemorosusMens-20241107154700-Let_me_just_add_the_sources,_what_kind_of_vandalising_are_you_talking_about?"></span>These platforms and projects are real and matter to the local Yugoslav region, I am referencing proof and adding to the pages as more information as I can, allow me few days to make them shiny please. <a href="/wiki/User:NemorosusMens" title="User:NemorosusMens">NemorosusMens</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:NemorosusMens" title="User talk:NemorosusMens">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Fram#c-NemorosusMens-20241107154700-Let_me_just_add_the_sources,_what_kind_of_vandalising_are_you_talking_about?" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:47, 7 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-NemorosusMens-20241107154700-Let_me_just_add_the_sources,_what_kind_of_vandalising_are_you_talking_about?"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-NemorosusMens-20241107154700-Let_me_just_add_the_sources,_what_kind_of_vandalising_are_you_talking_about?"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Fram-20241107162700-NemorosusMens-20241107154700"></span>There is zero evidence for any of this. None at all, for either the party or the radio. <a href="/wiki/User:Fram" class="mw-redirect" title="User:Fram">Fram</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Fram#c-Fram-20241107162700-NemorosusMens-20241107154700" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:27, 7 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Fram-20241107162700-NemorosusMens-20241107154700"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Fram-20241107162700-NemorosusMens-20241107154700"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-NemorosusMens-20241107163400-Fram-20241107162700"></span>What evidence would you like? The party isn't a party per-se, it's an organisation with around 700 members and it wasn't, isn't and won't be registered in any political party registry. I never categorised it as a political party, you didn't let me finish the pages, thus I apologise for using the live pages as my sandbox - just helped me edit with more attention.</dd> <dd>On the radio, it existed since 2010 and I have full evidence regarding this. It had a Facebook page with around 8000 likes before it got removed for sharing Palestinian anti-zionist propaganda, like the ideologies of the organisations say, they're both left-wing and political.</dd> <dd>For Radio Yugoslavia, I have more than 1K of newsletter members, about the same for our music label, it's a whole structure that I was just starting to record here - finding it via normal Google searching won't return you anything back, thus I would once again apologise for using live pages as my sandbox, and please simply allow me to do it once more (this time I'll use references, historic articles, etc) and publish it during this week, and if you find it as a hoax or anything similar you're mentioning there, then feel free to remove them both and simply not have them exist here.</dd> <dd>Also, public appearance and presence online on pop-social media doesn't equal organisation legitimacy, just saying. At this very moment I have around ~100 listeners to the Radio Yugoslavia Jazz channel. This costs us money, and trying to get here will just help spread the word about the people who're curious in learning about one niche, but legit organisation from the region of Yugoslavia. <a href="/wiki/User:NemorosusMens" title="User:NemorosusMens">NemorosusMens</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:NemorosusMens" title="User talk:NemorosusMens">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Fram#c-NemorosusMens-20241107163400-Fram-20241107162700" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:34, 7 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-NemorosusMens-20241107163400-Fram-20241107162700"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-NemorosusMens-20241107163400-Fram-20241107162700"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Fram-20241107163900-NemorosusMens-20241107163400"></span>If there is zero evidence that this actually exists (and no, having a webpage which isn't even linked from anywhere else is not evidence of "existing"), the sources in the article are not about the subject, and the subject itself is highly unlikely (you are aware that Yugoslavia has been gone for 30 years?), and even the website is hardly active (half the pages are 404 errors), then why should we trust your word (as a 10-year editor who only registered last month?) that any of this is actually real and that somehow all those foreign ministries, embassies, ... know and care about your existence? <a href="/wiki/User:Fram" class="mw-redirect" title="User:Fram">Fram</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Fram#c-Fram-20241107163900-NemorosusMens-20241107163400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:39, 7 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Fram-20241107163900-NemorosusMens-20241107163400"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Fram-20241107163900-NemorosusMens-20241107163400"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Asilvering-20241107164200-Fram-20241107163900"></span>@<a href="/wiki/User:NemorosusMens" title="User:NemorosusMens">NemorosusMens</a>, I see another admin has since deleted the page as a hoax. I don't think it's a hoax as we define them, so I think that particular action was wrong, but I don't think this article ever had much hope of being a Wikipedia article. You'd have to show that the topic was <i>notable</i> - ie, that secondary sources talk about it. This is the same thing that would satisfy Fram about it being a hoax, so in the end I suppose it doesn't much matter which criteria it was deleted under. If you don't have enough sources to meet the guidelines at <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:NCORP" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:NCORP">WP:NCORP</a>, we can't have an article on the topic. -- <a href="/wiki/User:Asilvering" title="User:Asilvering">asilvering</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Asilvering" title="User talk:Asilvering">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Fram#c-Asilvering-20241107164200-Fram-20241107163900" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:42, 7 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Asilvering-20241107164200-Fram-20241107163900"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Asilvering-20241107164200-Fram-20241107163900"></span></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-NemorosusMens-20241107164300-Fram-20241107163900"></span>No, that was trash words from my sandbox. I can reference everything, and about the website - I'm currently the only sysadmin so working everything step by step. Yugoslavia has been indeed gone for lots of decades, however this is an organisation which is active in the region of Yugoslavia, not the country.</dd> <dd>Would it be okay for you to give me another chance where I don't get out of the sandbox, I appropriately reference everything as the projects and organisations have changed names, domains over the span of 1.5 decades, and simply publish everything on live pages as it should be, and then you decide if it's good or no?</dd> <dd>Would appreciate it a lot. <a href="/wiki/User:NemorosusMens" title="User:NemorosusMens">NemorosusMens</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:NemorosusMens" title="User talk:NemorosusMens">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Fram#c-NemorosusMens-20241107164300-Fram-20241107163900" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:43, 7 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-NemorosusMens-20241107164300-Fram-20241107163900"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-NemorosusMens-20241107164300-Fram-20241107163900"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <p><br/> </p> <dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Fram-20241107164500-NemorosusMens-20241107164300"></span>The substack was created 4 days ago<a rel="nofollow" class="external autonumber" href="https://radioyugoslavia.substack.com/">[11]</a>"Radio Yugoslavia Radio Yugoslavia is an international media organisation which is owned by the Communist Pirate Party of Yugoslavia, and broadcasts news, music, podcasts and more content in English language. By Andrijan · Launched 4 days ago". Everything points to something brand new, created as a joke. <a href="/wiki/User:Fram" class="mw-redirect" title="User:Fram">Fram</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Fram#c-Fram-20241107164500-NemorosusMens-20241107164300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:45, 7 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Fram-20241107164500-NemorosusMens-20241107164300"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Fram-20241107164500-NemorosusMens-20241107164300"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-NemorosusMens-20241107165000-Fram-20241107164500"></span>Like I mentioned, I will reference everything as we've changed platforms several times. I'm gonna do it in my sandbox, reference everything like I should've the first time, include also several pages which proves our existence such as:</dd> <dd><a rel="nofollow" class="external free" href="https://ra.co/events/1307399">https://ra.co/events/1307399</a> (just letting you know, 170 purchases on <a href="/wiki/Resident_Advisor" title="Resident Advisor">Resident Advisor</a> aren't a low number, especially for the location)</dd> <dd><a rel="nofollow" class="external free" href="https://it.mk/najdete-makedonska-alternativna-muzika-vo-novata-prodavnitsata-na-podzemni-frekfentsii/">https://it.mk/najdete-makedonska-alternativna-muzika-vo-novata-prodavnitsata-na-podzemni-frekfentsii/</a></dd> <dd>Article about opening up the first digital music store in Macedonia, the most south country of the Yugoslav region back in 2012...</dd> <dd>Etc, etc. Sadly they were done under different domains, but as I said, we're restructuring now - we even have contributors that come from New York, USA that write music articles for us. <a href="/wiki/User:NemorosusMens" title="User:NemorosusMens">NemorosusMens</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:NemorosusMens" title="User talk:NemorosusMens">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Fram#c-NemorosusMens-20241107165000-Fram-20241107164500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:50, 7 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-NemorosusMens-20241107165000-Fram-20241107164500"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-NemorosusMens-20241107165000-Fram-20241107164500"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Asilvering-20241107165300-NemorosusMens-20241107165000"></span>You're still going to need to find articles in mainstream sources that discuss the topic in order for it to meet <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:NCORP" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:NCORP">WP:NCORP</a>. Linking to a page about a rave or whatever isn't going to fulfil that. We mean things like newspaper articles. It looks like you're, well, underground. Underground things aren't typically able to meet the notability guidelines (see <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:42" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:42">WP:42</a>). -- <a href="/wiki/User:Asilvering" title="User:Asilvering">asilvering</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Asilvering" title="User talk:Asilvering">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Fram#c-Asilvering-20241107165300-NemorosusMens-20241107165000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:53, 7 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Asilvering-20241107165300-NemorosusMens-20241107165000"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Asilvering-20241107165300-NemorosusMens-20241107165000"></span></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Fram-20241107165700-NemorosusMens-20241107165000"></span>There is zero evidence that the brand new party (the article claimed October 2023, but the website is from October 2024, the radiostation is from a few days ago) has anything to do with these links, and even if the same people are behind it, so what? A party or organisation doesn't get credible or notable because 13 years ago the same people operated a music site or store. Your claims about being an organisation with CIA documents, 700 members, followers in embassies and foreign ministries, ... are all complete fabrications and fabulations as you haven't provided even one shred of evidence for any of these claims about the actual YCPP, not about <i>different</i> stuff. <a href="/wiki/User:Fram" class="mw-redirect" title="User:Fram">Fram</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Fram#c-Fram-20241107165700-NemorosusMens-20241107165000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:57, 7 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Fram-20241107165700-NemorosusMens-20241107165000"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Fram-20241107165700-NemorosusMens-20241107165000"></span></dd></dl></dd> <dd><a rel="nofollow" class="external free" href="https://soundcloud.com/radioyugoslavia"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-NemorosusMens-20241107165700-Fram-20241107164500"></span>https://soundcloud.com/radioyugoslavia</a></dd> <dd><a rel="nofollow" class="external free" href="https://www.youtube.com/@radioyug">https://www.youtube.com/@radioyug</a></dd> <dd>2K followers here, removed every video as it was music and simply restarting it, that's all. Bit of difficult to find when searching online because there's still no presence as strong as 'Radio Yugoslavia' (we've run as 'frekvencii' which translates to frequencies in Yugoslav languages) but our first archive is on .info.tm domain ~ as I said, we were young back then and we grew together with our audience. Our audience staid, it's just our pop-social media got wrecked.</dd> <dd><a rel="nofollow" class="external free" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20121030083558/http://frekvencii.info.tm/">https://web.archive.org/web/20121030083558/http://frekvencii.info.tm/</a></dd> <dd>There's also this, etc, etc.</dd> <dd>p.s. that's a mainstream source (it.mk) in Yugoslavia. The rave link I sent was simply to address the legitimacy and that this isn't any sort of hoax, you can see the logo and the prior name we used.</dd> <dd>Underground it was, but Radio Yugoslavia isn't underground anymore. It's why I came to Wikipedia. A regional page for Yugoslavia which is valid won't do any harm. <a href="/wiki/User:NemorosusMens" title="User:NemorosusMens">NemorosusMens</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:NemorosusMens" title="User talk:NemorosusMens">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Fram#c-NemorosusMens-20241107165700-Fram-20241107164500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:57, 7 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-NemorosusMens-20241107165700-Fram-20241107164500"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-NemorosusMens-20241107165700-Fram-20241107164500"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Asilvering-20241107170000-NemorosusMens-20241107165700"></span>No, none of this helps show notability, sorry. We really could use some more editors working in Balkans topics in general, but I urge you to drop this one and to work on articles that already exist for now, until you get more used to how <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:N" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:N">WP:N</a> and <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:V" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:V">WP:V</a> work in practice. -- <a href="/wiki/User:Asilvering" title="User:Asilvering">asilvering</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Asilvering" title="User talk:Asilvering">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Fram#c-Asilvering-20241107170000-NemorosusMens-20241107165700" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:00, 7 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Asilvering-20241107170000-NemorosusMens-20241107165700"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Asilvering-20241107170000-NemorosusMens-20241107165700"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-NemorosusMens-20241107170400-Asilvering-20241107170000"></span>Understood, sounds fair. Thank you both @<a href="/wiki/User:Asilvering" title="User:Asilvering">Asilvering</a> and @<a href="/wiki/User:Fram" class="mw-redirect" title="User:Fram">Fram</a> for being calm with me and explaining where I'm wrong, I'm gonna be sure to slowly build the platform to the standards and seek press releases on some of our friendship organisation pages, just so we can have what's WP:N and WP:V in practise - in our Radio Yugoslavia practise, so one day it can be published.</dd> <dd>Regarding edits, yes, I have written perhaps more than 50% of the Macedonian page of Josip Broz Tito under the Coolzrock username hahah. Those were times, like I said I haven't edited a thing for decades, so I apologise for just coming here and spamming - I shouldn't have left the sandbox in first place until I finished everything that's publicly available, but hey, it happens - It'll be time when it's good to go for the English Wiki.</dd> <dd>Thanks again and see you around! <a href="/wiki/User:NemorosusMens" title="User:NemorosusMens">NemorosusMens</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:NemorosusMens" title="User talk:NemorosusMens">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Fram#c-NemorosusMens-20241107170400-Asilvering-20241107170000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:04, 7 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-NemorosusMens-20241107170400-Asilvering-20241107170000"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-NemorosusMens-20241107170400-Asilvering-20241107170000"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Fram-20241107170700-NemorosusMens-20241107170400"></span>"press releases on some of our friendship organisation pages" won't help one bit to show <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:N" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:N">notability</a>, you need to read <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:RS" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:RS">WP:RS</a> to see what is needed. <a href="/wiki/User:Fram" class="mw-redirect" title="User:Fram">Fram</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Fram#c-Fram-20241107170700-NemorosusMens-20241107170400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:07, 7 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Fram-20241107170700-NemorosusMens-20241107170400"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Fram-20241107170700-NemorosusMens-20241107170400"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Fram-20241107170600-NemorosusMens-20241107165700"></span>None of this is about the party or even mentions it? You seem to have a <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:COI" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:COI">WP:COI</a> with the musician Likvidator, who has a small following and posts on these channels (and a youtube channel with 2000 followers and 300 views total is dubious anyway). How would any of these links convince me that the claims you made in the article about the party are in any way believable? <a href="/wiki/User:Fram" class="mw-redirect" title="User:Fram">Fram</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Fram#c-Fram-20241107170600-NemorosusMens-20241107165700" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:06, 7 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Fram-20241107170600-NemorosusMens-20241107165700"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Fram-20241107170600-NemorosusMens-20241107165700"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-NemorosusMens-20241107171300-Fram-20241107170600"></span>The party had a huge event on Facebook and Instagram, the Facebook event is lost because we got our page blocked. Here is for example Ontal with him tagging us, but it's just gone in thin air. I don't know if there's some archival tool for Facebook pages, the URL was /frekvencii. About Likvidator, that is my alter-ego I've been using since 2015 to make underground <a href="/wiki/Illbient" title="Illbient">illbient</a> music. Under the umbrella of Radio Yugoslavia, we have a music label called <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://milicija.bandcamp.com">Milicija</a> (.org website in progress), where you'll find more techno and stuff there from my more known moniker DJ Bazootka and more artists from around the world.</dd> <dd>The party was crashed by the cops last moment. The location wasn't published until the last hour, and we got axed by a member of BTKRSH that was responsible for reporting the police legally to the police. Yes, despite being called Illegal - it was only marketing of course, simple basic legal registration of such a huge event (back then for a rave) was a must, however what happened happened... it's now in the past.</dd> <dd>There were even some memes floating back in the times about Rawrave even being a reality. Yeah... Hit me up on private if you're into techno, I'm gonna send you links of stories so you can see the locations/etc.</dd> <dd><a rel="nofollow" class="external free" href="https://www.instagram.com/p/CKUXJQJLR9l/">https://www.instagram.com/p/CKUXJQJLR9l/</a></dd> <dd>Ahhh, those were good times. But learnt a lot, would do it xBillion times better now with all under my experience. <a href="/wiki/User:NemorosusMens" title="User:NemorosusMens">NemorosusMens</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:NemorosusMens" title="User talk:NemorosusMens">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Fram#c-NemorosusMens-20241107171300-Fram-20241107170600" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:13, 7 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-NemorosusMens-20241107171300-Fram-20241107170600"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-NemorosusMens-20241107171300-Fram-20241107170600"></span></dd> <dd><a rel="nofollow" class="external free" href="https://www.facebook.com/ontalmusic/posts/tonightrawrave-skopje-raves-illegal/2509863225770598/"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-NemorosusMens-20241107171400-Fram-20241107170600"></span>https://www.facebook.com/ontalmusic/posts/tonightrawrave-skopje-raves-illegal/2509863225770598/</a> <a href="/wiki/User:NemorosusMens" title="User:NemorosusMens">NemorosusMens</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:NemorosusMens" title="User talk:NemorosusMens">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Fram#c-NemorosusMens-20241107171400-Fram-20241107170600" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:14, 7 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-NemorosusMens-20241107171400-Fram-20241107170600"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-NemorosusMens-20241107171400-Fram-20241107170600"></span></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-NemorosusMens-20241107171600-Fram-20241107170600"></span>Ah yeah, also, everyone from the line-up was a local underground DJ with exception of <a href="/wiki/E-Saggila" class="mw-redirect" title="E-Saggila">E-Saggila</a>, she was our only international guest, but she cancelled her whole tour like two weeks before the rave date. So yeah, it is what it is. Also, I must mention, I'm not any sorta DJ - I got on the lineup through an adventure, it shouldn't have never been me there, I was the organiser and backbones of this, I'm a producer mostly in the music sphere. I have no freaking clue how to DJ. <a href="/wiki/User:NemorosusMens" title="User:NemorosusMens">NemorosusMens</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:NemorosusMens" title="User talk:NemorosusMens">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Fram#c-NemorosusMens-20241107171600-Fram-20241107170600" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:16, 7 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-NemorosusMens-20241107171600-Fram-20241107170600"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-NemorosusMens-20241107171600-Fram-20241107170600"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Fram-20241107172000-NemorosusMens-20241107171600"></span>As I expected, again nothing about the YCPP, only about your music and radio station. Please stop posting links to things <i>not</i> even mentioning the party, never mind supporting the claim in the deleted article about it; it doesn't interest me one iota, and makes it only more obvious that your claims about the party were wishful thinking. Oh, and if you intend to continue to contribute here, please see <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:COI" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:COI">WP:COI</a>; it is best not to write about your own creations, organisations, work, ... in Wikipedia articles. <a href="/wiki/User:Fram" class="mw-redirect" title="User:Fram">Fram</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Fram#c-Fram-20241107172000-NemorosusMens-20241107171600" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:20, 7 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Fram-20241107172000-NemorosusMens-20241107171600"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Fram-20241107172000-NemorosusMens-20241107171600"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-NemorosusMens-20241107172300-Fram-20241107172000"></span>The structure page isn't public so you can view it, however, it's YCPP/KPPJ > Radio Yugoslavia > Milicija + sublabels. Either way, I forgot I was proving the existence of the KPPJ/YCPP, I just dived into the talk.</dd> <dd>Have a nice day/night ahead, and see you around Wiki. <a href="/wiki/User:NemorosusMens" title="User:NemorosusMens">NemorosusMens</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:NemorosusMens" title="User talk:NemorosusMens">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Fram#c-NemorosusMens-20241107172300-Fram-20241107172000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:23, 7 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-NemorosusMens-20241107172300-Fram-20241107172000"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-NemorosusMens-20241107172300-Fram-20241107172000"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Re:quotes_in_question_to_Primefac" data-mw-thread-id="h-Re:quotes_in_question_to_Primefac-20241113170000"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Re:quotes_in_question_to_Primefac-20241113170000"></span>Re:quotes in question to Primefac<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Re:quotes_in_question_to_Primefac-20241113170000"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Fram&action=edit&section=34" title="Edit section: Re:quotes in question to Primefac"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Barkeep49-20241113170000-Re:quotes_in_question_to_Primefac"></span>Hi Fram. Would you consider linking to the statements you're highlighting in your question to Primefac? I definitely recall reading them, but I didn't find <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1248585704"><q class="inline-quote-talk inline-quote-talk-marks">as I was recused from the get-go I was not following the case</q> when looking at the talk page of the decision or the proposed decision, on the questions page, or in his candidate statement (I did not search for the second quote). The context may be helpful to others as they consider your question and Primefac's response. Thanks for the consideration, <a href="/wiki/User:Barkeep49" title="User:Barkeep49">Barkeep49</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Barkeep49" title="User talk:Barkeep49">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Fram#c-Barkeep49-20241113170000-Re:quotes_in_question_to_Primefac" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:00, 13 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Barkeep49-20241113170000-Re:quotes_in_question_to_Primefac"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Barkeep49-20241113170000-Re:quotes_in_question_to_Primefac"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Fram-20241113171800-Barkeep49-20241113170000"></span>Thanks for asking, done. If there are other things I should link, just let me know. <a href="/wiki/User:Fram" class="mw-redirect" title="User:Fram">Fram</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Fram#c-Fram-20241113171800-Barkeep49-20241113170000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:18, 13 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Fram-20241113171800-Barkeep49-20241113170000"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Fram-20241113171800-Barkeep49-20241113170000"></span></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Jorge_Kurchan" data-mw-thread-id="h-Jorge_Kurchan-20241113211300"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Jorge_Kurchan-20241113211300"></span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Jorge_Kurchan&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Jorge Kurchan (page does not exist)">Jorge Kurchan</a><span data-mw-comment-end="h-Jorge_Kurchan-20241113211300"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Fram&action=edit&section=35" title="Edit section: Jorge Kurchan"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-HitroMilanese-20241113211300-Jorge_Kurchan"></span>Hi Fram, </p><p>I wanted to seek your opinion on whether this submission should be accepted at AfC given the current sourcing. Five citations are directly from the French Wikipedia, one from Google Scholar, and several others are authored by the subject. I would appreciate your perspective on this. </p><p>Regards. <a href="/wiki/User:HitroMilanese" title="User:HitroMilanese"><b style="color:Green; font-family:Times New Roman">Hitro</b></a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:HitroMilanese" title="User talk:HitroMilanese"><b style="color:#FF00FF; font-family:courier; font-size:small"> talk</b></a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Fram#c-HitroMilanese-20241113211300-Jorge_Kurchan" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:13, 13 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-HitroMilanese-20241113211300-Jorge_Kurchan"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-HitroMilanese-20241113211300-Jorge_Kurchan"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Fram-20241114081400-HitroMilanese-20241113211300"></span>Moved back to draft, should obviously not have been accepted like that (notable subject though). <a href="/wiki/User:Fram" class="mw-redirect" title="User:Fram">Fram</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Fram#c-Fram-20241114081400-HitroMilanese-20241113211300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">08:14, 14 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Fram-20241114081400-HitroMilanese-20241113211300"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Fram-20241114081400-HitroMilanese-20241113211300"></span></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Disambiguation_link_notification_for_November_14" data-mw-thread-id="h-Disambiguation_link_notification_for_November_14-20241114195400"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Disambiguation_link_notification_for_November_14-20241114195400"></span>Disambiguation link notification for November 14<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Disambiguation_link_notification_for_November_14-20241114195400"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Fram&action=edit&section=36" title="Edit section: Disambiguation link notification for November 14"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-DPL_bot-20241114195400-Disambiguation_link_notification_for_November_14"></span>An automated process has detected that when you recently edited <a href="/wiki/Romilly_(given_name)" title="Romilly (given name)">Romilly (given name)</a>, you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page <a href="/wiki/Romilly" class="mw-disambig" title="Romilly">Romilly</a>. </p><p>(<a href="/wiki/User:DPL_bot" title="User:DPL bot">Opt-out instructions</a>.) --<a href="/wiki/User:DPL_bot" title="User:DPL bot">DPL bot</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:DPL_bot" title="User talk:DPL bot">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Fram#c-DPL_bot-20241114195400-Disambiguation_link_notification_for_November_14" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:54, 14 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-DPL_bot-20241114195400-Disambiguation_link_notification_for_November_14"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-DPL_bot-20241114195400-Disambiguation_link_notification_for_November_14"></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Talk:Qaboos_bin_Said." data-mw-thread-id="h-Talk:Qaboos_bin_Said.-20241115135200"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Talk:Qaboos_bin_Said.-20241115135200"></span>Talk:Qaboos bin Said.<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Talk:Qaboos_bin_Said.-20241115135200"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Fram&action=edit&section=37" title="Edit section: Talk:Qaboos bin Said."><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Ip_says-20241115135200-Talk:Qaboos_bin_Said."></span>Hi Fram. It seems maybe there's canvassing going on in the Rfc. I don't know, but if you look at the history page of the instigator it could look like a SPA with prior experience here. Best regards <a href="/wiki/User:Ip_says" title="User:Ip says">Ip says: Work Better yes.</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Ip_says" title="User talk:Ip says">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Fram#c-Ip_says-20241115135200-Talk:Qaboos_bin_Said." class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">13:52, 15 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Ip_says-20241115135200-Talk:Qaboos_bin_Said."><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Ip_says-20241115135200-Talk:Qaboos_bin_Said."></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Fram-20241118080500-Ip_says-20241115135200"></span>Hi IP says, while it's of course impossible to rule out canvassing, the people who have commented are experienced, long-term editors and I see no reason to believe that they were canvassed. <a href="/wiki/User:Fram" class="mw-redirect" title="User:Fram">Fram</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Fram#c-Fram-20241118080500-Ip_says-20241115135200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">08:05, 18 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Fram-20241118080500-Ip_says-20241115135200"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Fram-20241118080500-Ip_says-20241115135200"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Ip_says-20241118133300-Fram-20241118080500"></span>I apologise for the inconvenience, thanks for looking at it. <a href="/wiki/User:Ip_says" title="User:Ip says">Ip says: Work Better yes.</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Ip_says" title="User talk:Ip says">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Fram#c-Ip_says-20241118133300-Fram-20241118080500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">13:33, 18 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Ip_says-20241118133300-Fram-20241118080500"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Ip_says-20241118133300-Fram-20241118080500"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="ArbCom_2024_Elections_voter_message" data-mw-thread-id="h-ArbCom_2024_Elections_voter_message-20241119000500"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-ArbCom_2024_Elections_voter_message-20241119000500"></span>ArbCom 2024 Elections voter message<span data-mw-comment-end="h-ArbCom_2024_Elections_voter_message-20241119000500"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Fram&action=edit&section=38" title="Edit section: ArbCom 2024 Elections voter message"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <div class="ivmbox" style="margin-bottom: 1em; border: 1px solid #a2a9b1; background-color: #fdf2d5; padding: 0.5em; display: flex; align-items: center;"> <div class="ivmbox-image noresize" style="padding-left:1px; padding-right:0.5em;"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-MediaWiki_message_delivery-20241119000500-ArbCom_2024_Elections_voter_message"></span><span typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Scale_of_justice_2.svg" class="mw-file-description"><img src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/0e/Scale_of_justice_2.svg/40px-Scale_of_justice_2.svg.png" decoding="async" width="40" height="41" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/0e/Scale_of_justice_2.svg/60px-Scale_of_justice_2.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/0e/Scale_of_justice_2.svg/80px-Scale_of_justice_2.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="204" data-file-height="208"/></a></span></div> <div class="ivmbox-text"> <p>Hello! 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If you no longer wish to receive these messages, you may add <code>{{<a href="/wiki/Template:NoACEMM" class="mw-redirect" title="Template:NoACEMM">NoACEMM</a>}}</code> to your user talk page. <small><a href="/wiki/User:MediaWiki_message_delivery" title="User:MediaWiki message delivery">MediaWiki message delivery</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:MediaWiki_message_delivery" title="User talk:MediaWiki message delivery">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Fram#c-MediaWiki_message_delivery-20241119000500-ArbCom_2024_Elections_voter_message" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:05, 19 November 2024 (UTC)</a></small><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-MediaWiki_message_delivery-20241119000500-ArbCom_2024_Elections_voter_message"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-MediaWiki_message_delivery-20241119000500-ArbCom_2024_Elections_voter_message"></span> </p> </div> </div> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="African_English_and_AI_(ANI)" data-mw-thread-id="h-African_English_and_AI_(ANI)-20241119163500"><span id="African_English_and_AI_.28ANI.29"></span><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-African_English_and_AI_(ANI)-20241119163500"></span>African English and AI (ANI)<span data-mw-comment-end="h-African_English_and_AI_(ANI)-20241119163500"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Fram&action=edit&section=39" title="Edit section: African English and AI (ANI)"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Twochutes-20241119163500-African_English_and_AI_(ANI)"></span>Just a heads-up: A lot of the linguistic quirks associated with LLMs are also associated with English in Africa (most notably "delve" and Nigeria). Given who was on the other end of mturk and the various other low budget, mass action training platforms that underpinned the AI boom it makes sense... but also means that when the context is English speakers in Africa, word choice is a less suitable AI-indicator than usual. <a href="/wiki/User:Twochutes" title="User:Twochutes">Twochutes</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Twochutes" title="User talk:Twochutes">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Fram#c-Twochutes-20241119163500-African_English_and_AI_(ANI)" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:35, 19 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Twochutes-20241119163500-African_English_and_AI_(ANI)"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Twochutes-20241119163500-African_English_and_AI_(ANI)"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Fram-20241119164400-Twochutes-20241119163500"></span>Could be, but it's not only the choice of words, it's also the use of many words to convey very little. In the end, it doesn't really matter. <a href="/wiki/User:Fram" class="mw-redirect" title="User:Fram">Fram</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Fram#c-Fram-20241119164400-Twochutes-20241119163500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:44, 19 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Fram-20241119164400-Twochutes-20241119163500"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Fram-20241119164400-Twochutes-20241119163500"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Twochutes-20241119165300-Fram-20241119164400"></span>Agreed it's likely here nor there, simply an FYI! <a href="/wiki/User:Twochutes" title="User:Twochutes">Twochutes</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Twochutes" title="User talk:Twochutes">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Fram#c-Twochutes-20241119165300-Fram-20241119164400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:53, 19 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Twochutes-20241119165300-Fram-20241119164400"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Twochutes-20241119165300-Fram-20241119164400"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Regarding_Patsho" data-mw-thread-id="h-Regarding_Patsho-20241119171200"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Regarding_Patsho-20241119171200"></span>Regarding Patsho<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Regarding_Patsho-20241119171200"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Fram&action=edit&section=40" title="Edit section: Regarding Patsho"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-ExfactoLexander-20241119171200-Regarding_Patsho"></span>This topic has been already discussed last year. Regarding author, She is from Patsho village currently resides in Tuensang. Sports: self research includes. Could you please move back? I can work on this. <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:ExfactoLexander&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:ExfactoLexander (page does not exist)">ExfactoLexander</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:ExfactoLexander" title="User talk:ExfactoLexander">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Fram#c-ExfactoLexander-20241119171200-Regarding_Patsho" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:12, 19 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-ExfactoLexander-20241119171200-Regarding_Patsho"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-ExfactoLexander-20241119171200-Regarding_Patsho"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Fram-20241119172500-ExfactoLexander-20241119171200"></span>"self research" = <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:OR" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:OR">original research</a>, which isn't allowed on Wikipedia. The author; the source doesn't mention Patsho, and the only source I could find gave a different village. The article needs lots of work before it is ready for the mainspace. And in general, <i>please</i> check all the weblinks of your sources, way too many don't work at all, in all your articles. E.g. in <a href="/wiki/L%C3%BCmuoking" title="Lümuoking">Lümuoking</a>, the first source gives me <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://www.indiagrowing.com/Topbet369/">this</a>, in <a href="/wiki/Ahangk%C3%BCha" title="Ahangküha">Ahangküha</a> you have (besides Linkedin, which you really shouldn't use as a source) things like <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://wwwe.lib.cam.ac.uk/nagas/record/r68552.html/">this</a> error, <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://www.google.com/search?q=the+pangsha+letter&oq=the+pangsha+letter&aqs=chrome..69i57.11816j0j9&client=ms-android-vivo&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8">this</a> Google search (link to the actual website please, not to Google search). <a href="/wiki/User:Fram" class="mw-redirect" title="User:Fram">Fram</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Fram#c-Fram-20241119172500-ExfactoLexander-20241119171200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:25, 19 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Fram-20241119172500-ExfactoLexander-20241119171200"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Fram-20241119172500-ExfactoLexander-20241119171200"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-ExfactoLexander-20241119175900-Fram-20241119172500"></span>History of Patsho:</dd> <dd>Starting from Panso which is an exonym. You will find this in the books of <i>The Pangsha letter</i> or <i>Through the unexplored mountains of Assam-Burma border</i>. Then there exist Pathso A, Pathso B, Panso Town. After some years <i>Pathso Nokeng</i> and <i>Pathso</i> came into being. later <i>Ekhao</i> was bifurcated from <i>Pathso B</i>.</dd> <dd>The spelling of <i>Patsho</i> was evolved with the inception of ongoing <i>Patsho Khiamniungan dictionary project</i>. If I am not mistaken we had discussed this already last year.</dd> <dd>Above all, it's a right thing to deliver what needs to be done on Wikipedia. I believe you did the same moving this Patsho page to draft space, if this does not meet Wikipedia standard. I gave my best on this article thinking its my own village. Still I couldn't make it. Let's others work on this and I am sure, they can make bring out the best. 🙏🏻 <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:ExfactoLexander&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:ExfactoLexander (page does not exist)">ExfactoLexander</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:ExfactoLexander" title="User talk:ExfactoLexander">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Fram#c-ExfactoLexander-20241119175900-Fram-20241119172500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:59, 19 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-ExfactoLexander-20241119175900-Fram-20241119172500"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-ExfactoLexander-20241119175900-Fram-20241119172500"></span></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-ExfactoLexander-20241119190000-Fram-20241119172500"></span>Okay. I will check your concern on <a href="/wiki/L%C3%BCmuoking" title="Lümuoking">Lümuoking</a> and <a href="/wiki/Ahangk%C3%BCha" title="Ahangküha">Ahangküha</a>. <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:ExfactoLexander&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:ExfactoLexander (page does not exist)">ExfactoLexander</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:ExfactoLexander" title="User talk:ExfactoLexander">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Fram#c-ExfactoLexander-20241119190000-Fram-20241119172500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:00, 19 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-ExfactoLexander-20241119190000-Fram-20241119172500"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-ExfactoLexander-20241119190000-Fram-20241119172500"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-ExfactoLexander-20241120001800-ExfactoLexander-20241119190000"></span>Hello Sir</dd> <dd>I deleted all your concerns and resolved the issues on Sources. Please keep as it is for now. I will keep working constantly. Thank you. <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:ExfactoLexander&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:ExfactoLexander (page does not exist)">ExfactoLexander</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:ExfactoLexander" title="User talk:ExfactoLexander">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Fram#c-ExfactoLexander-20241120001800-ExfactoLexander-20241119190000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:18, 20 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-ExfactoLexander-20241120001800-ExfactoLexander-20241119190000"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-ExfactoLexander-20241120001800-ExfactoLexander-20241119190000"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Fram-20241120082400-ExfactoLexander-20241120001800"></span>No you didn't, I have no idea why you claim you did. I have no idea what "The nomenclature Patsho is a cryptogenic origin " means, I have no idea what you mean with "Friendliness especially towards outsiders or foreigners excel in the olden days." and the source for that doesn't work, and I stopped and readded the "rewrite needed" taf which you previously removed, as the article is a complete mess and needs complete checking and rewriting. <a href="/wiki/User:Fram" class="mw-redirect" title="User:Fram">Fram</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Fram#c-Fram-20241120082400-ExfactoLexander-20241120001800" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">08:24, 20 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Fram-20241120082400-ExfactoLexander-20241120001800"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Fram-20241120082400-ExfactoLexander-20241120001800"></span></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Fram-20241120083500-ExfactoLexander-20241120001800"></span>And when you use sources like <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://wwwe.lib.cam.ac.uk/nagas/record/r74310.html">this</a> please indicate on which page one can verify the information. I couldn't easily find anything about Paksho in there, but with a page number or numbers it would be more feasible to actually check. <a href="/wiki/User:Fram" class="mw-redirect" title="User:Fram">Fram</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Fram#c-Fram-20241120083500-ExfactoLexander-20241120001800" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">08:35, 20 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Fram-20241120083500-ExfactoLexander-20241120001800"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Fram-20241120083500-ExfactoLexander-20241120001800"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-ExfactoLexander-20241120191000-Fram-20241120083500"></span>Regarding "The nomenclature Patsho is a cryptogenic origin ", what I supposed to mean is that, till now have not found in any books or other sources who actually coined the term "Patsho". I tried asking villagers as many as possible but the result is still negative. That's the reason why I concluded "cryptogenic origin", like obscure/unknown. You may please rewrite the sentence accordingly. <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:ExfactoLexander&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:ExfactoLexander (page does not exist)">ExfactoLexander</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:ExfactoLexander" title="User talk:ExfactoLexander">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Fram#c-ExfactoLexander-20241120191000-Fram-20241120083500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:10, 20 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-ExfactoLexander-20241120191000-Fram-20241120083500"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-ExfactoLexander-20241120191000-Fram-20241120083500"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-ExfactoLexander-20241120191800-ExfactoLexander-20241120191000"></span>One request, could you please not mind reverting an article on "Hokthie"? The exact word Hokthie can't be found in sources at the moment but that's what we actually called. It is written according to our dictionary so you may not find elsewhere. As you may have seen in picture too, that it's not exactly leggings? So better use Hokthie for now and shall we keep this article going if you don't mind? <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:ExfactoLexander&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:ExfactoLexander (page does not exist)">ExfactoLexander</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:ExfactoLexander" title="User talk:ExfactoLexander">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Fram#c-ExfactoLexander-20241120191800-ExfactoLexander-20241120191000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:18, 20 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-ExfactoLexander-20241120191800-ExfactoLexander-20241120191000"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-ExfactoLexander-20241120191800-ExfactoLexander-20241120191000"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Fram-20241121081100-ExfactoLexander-20241120191800"></span>If there are no sources for Hokthie, then it shouldn't have an article. <a href="/wiki/User:Fram" class="mw-redirect" title="User:Fram">Fram</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Fram#c-Fram-20241121081100-ExfactoLexander-20241120191800" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">08:11, 21 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Fram-20241121081100-ExfactoLexander-20241120191800"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Fram-20241121081100-ExfactoLexander-20241120191800"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-ExfactoLexander-20241121110800-Fram-20241121081100"></span>Okay then let's leave it. We can publish it when there is a source. <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:ExfactoLexander&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:ExfactoLexander (page does not exist)">ExfactoLexander</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:ExfactoLexander" title="User talk:ExfactoLexander">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Fram#c-ExfactoLexander-20241121110800-Fram-20241121081100" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">11:08, 21 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-ExfactoLexander-20241121110800-Fram-20241121081100"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-ExfactoLexander-20241121110800-Fram-20241121081100"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Fram-20241121081100-ExfactoLexander-20241120191000"></span>I now checked <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://pahar.in/pahar/Books%20and%20Articles/Indian%20Subcontinent/1938%20Explored%20Mountains%20of%20Assam-Burma%20Border%20by%20Haimendorf%20from%20GJv91%20s.pdf">this</a> with the page number you gave. You use it to reference three statements; the one "Friendliness especially towards outsiders or foreigners excel in the olden days." is based on one writer who was welcomed, and described a feast they gave <i>after the burning of a neighbouring village". An anecdote makes no rule, and burning villages is hardly excelling at friendliness. The second statement you reference is copied literally from the source, which is a <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:COPYVIO" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:COPYVIO">WP:COPYVIO</a> and not allowed. And the third, about the two exogamous clans Shiu and Lam: the source says there are 3, not 2 such clans, and doesn't name them. Like I said, the article needs complete checking and rewriting. <a href="/wiki/User:Fram" class="mw-redirect" title="User:Fram">Fram</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Fram#c-Fram-20241121081100-ExfactoLexander-20241120191000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">08:11, 21 November 2024 (UTC)</a></i><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Fram-20241121081100-ExfactoLexander-20241120191000"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Fram-20241121081100-ExfactoLexander-20241120191000"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-ExfactoLexander-20241121112400-Fram-20241121081100"></span>Regarding the clans please check [<a rel="nofollow" class="external autonumber" href="https://www.google.com/search?q=tribal+affairs+shiu+and+lam+marriage&oq=tribal+affairs+shiu+and+lam+marriage+&aqs=chrome..69i57.18480j0j9&client=ms-android-vivo&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8#vhid=zephyr:0&vssid=atritem-https://repository.tribal.gov.in/bitstream/123456789/75173/1/oral_history.pdf%7Cthis">[12]</a>]. Both the sources differs. But I support the two largest clans as we now live by this. <i>Could you please help Sir, I cannot directly linked it as reference</i>, it just appear list of web pages.</dd> <dd>I will delete the <i>friendliness tag</i> as I revisit the page. <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:ExfactoLexander&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:ExfactoLexander (page does not exist)">ExfactoLexander</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:ExfactoLexander" title="User talk:ExfactoLexander">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Fram#c-ExfactoLexander-20241121112400-Fram-20241121081100" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">11:24, 21 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-ExfactoLexander-20241121112400-Fram-20241121081100"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-ExfactoLexander-20241121112400-Fram-20241121081100"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-ExfactoLexander-20241121115800-ExfactoLexander-20241121112400"></span>I instead rephrase the sentence that may seem more acceptable. Actually there were two people visiting the village together. One is the reference I have given and the other person is the one who is associated with "The Pangsha letter".(Google Search). If I am not mistaken, some sepoys? came along with them and a person to aid translation from other neighbouring community by the name <i>Chingmak</i>?. If you are interested, you may find about the <i>burning villages</i> a bit more in detail here.</dd> <dd>Above all, Thanks for helping me get to know Wikipedia more and more. <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:ExfactoLexander&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:ExfactoLexander (page does not exist)">ExfactoLexander</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:ExfactoLexander" title="User talk:ExfactoLexander">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Fram#c-ExfactoLexander-20241121115800-ExfactoLexander-20241121112400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">11:58, 21 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-ExfactoLexander-20241121115800-ExfactoLexander-20241121112400"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-ExfactoLexander-20241121115800-ExfactoLexander-20241121112400"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="AfD" data-mw-thread-id="h-AfD-20241119225000"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-AfD-20241119225000"></span>AfD<span data-mw-comment-end="h-AfD-20241119225000"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Fram&action=edit&section=41" title="Edit section: AfD"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-HHH_Pedrigree-20241119225000-AfD"></span>I have seen you nominated for deletion some wrestling articles. Just in case, the user also created other similar articles. <a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/Anthony_Pi%C3%B1eiro">[13]</a> <a href="/wiki/User:HHH_Pedrigree" title="User:HHH Pedrigree">HHH Pedrigree</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:HHH_Pedrigree" title="User talk:HHH Pedrigree">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Fram#c-HHH_Pedrigree-20241119225000-AfD" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:50, 19 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-HHH_Pedrigree-20241119225000-AfD"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-HHH_Pedrigree-20241119225000-AfD"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Fram-20241120082200-HHH_Pedrigree-20241119225000"></span>Thanks, I'll first wait and see how these two AfDs go! <a href="/wiki/User:Fram" class="mw-redirect" title="User:Fram">Fram</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Fram#c-Fram-20241120082200-HHH_Pedrigree-20241119225000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">08:22, 20 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Fram-20241120082200-HHH_Pedrigree-20241119225000"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Fram-20241120082200-HHH_Pedrigree-20241119225000"></span></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="A_cup_of_tea_for_you!" data-mw-thread-id="h-A_cup_of_tea_for_you!-20241121021800"><span id="A_cup_of_tea_for_you.21"></span><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-A_cup_of_tea_for_you!-20241121021800"></span>A cup of tea for you!<span data-mw-comment-end="h-A_cup_of_tea_for_you!-20241121021800"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Fram&action=edit&section=42" title="Edit section: A cup of tea for you!"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <table style="background-color: #fdffe7; border: 1px solid #fceb92;"> <tbody><tr> <td style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 5px;"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-XRozuRozu-20241121021800-A_cup_of_tea_for_you!"></span><span typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Meissen-teacup_pinkrose01.jpg" class="mw-file-description"><img src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/fc/Meissen-teacup_pinkrose01.jpg/120px-Meissen-teacup_pinkrose01.jpg" decoding="async" width="120" height="90" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/fc/Meissen-teacup_pinkrose01.jpg/180px-Meissen-teacup_pinkrose01.jpg 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/fc/Meissen-teacup_pinkrose01.jpg/240px-Meissen-teacup_pinkrose01.jpg 2x" data-file-width="2000" data-file-height="1500"/></a></span> </td> <td style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 3px;">thank you for your contributions!! :) <a href="/wiki/User:XRozuRozu" title="User:XRozuRozu">xRozuRozu</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:XRozuRozu" title="User talk:XRozuRozu">t</a> • <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/XRozuRozu" title="Special:Contributions/XRozuRozu">c</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Fram#c-XRozuRozu-20241121021800-A_cup_of_tea_for_you!" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:18, 21 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-XRozuRozu-20241121021800-A_cup_of_tea_for_you!"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-XRozuRozu-20241121021800-A_cup_of_tea_for_you!"></span> </td></tr></tbody></table> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Fram-20241121081200-A_cup_of_tea_for_you!"></span>Thank you! <a href="/wiki/User:Fram" class="mw-redirect" title="User:Fram">Fram</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Fram#c-Fram-20241121081200-A_cup_of_tea_for_you!" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">08:12, 21 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Fram-20241121081200-A_cup_of_tea_for_you!"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Fram-20241121081200-A_cup_of_tea_for_you!"></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Alon_Mindlin" data-mw-thread-id="h-Alon_Mindlin-20241121023200"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Alon_Mindlin-20241121023200"></span><a href="/wiki/Alon_Mindlin" title="Alon Mindlin">Alon Mindlin</a><span data-mw-comment-end="h-Alon_Mindlin-20241121023200"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Fram&action=edit&section=43" title="Edit section: Alon Mindlin"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Yoavd-20241121023200-Alon_Mindlin"></span>I read your remark and added 8 articles about his contribution to chess; the reason I did not so before is because they are written in Hebrew, a ninth mentioning Mindlin is in Spanish. I am trying to find similar articles in English. <a href="/wiki/User:Yoavd" title="User:Yoavd">Yoavd</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Yoavd" title="User talk:Yoavd">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Fram#c-Yoavd-20241121023200-Alon_Mindlin" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:32, 21 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Yoavd-20241121023200-Alon_Mindlin"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Yoavd-20241121023200-Alon_Mindlin"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Fram-20241121080200-Yoavd-20241121023200"></span>Thank you. I can't access all of them and some are just passing mentions<a rel="nofollow" class="external autonumber" href="https://www.ice.co.il/career/news/article/921325">[14]</a>, but something like <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://www.calcalist.co.il/local_news/article/ryqs5itrn">this</a> really has information about him and is great to use. While of course it would be easier if we had sources in English, this is not a requirement at all and articles may be completely based on non-English sources. It would be great if you could integrate some of these in the article as references, but that's just advice, not some obligation :-) Thank you! <a href="/wiki/User:Fram" class="mw-redirect" title="User:Fram">Fram</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Fram#c-Fram-20241121080200-Yoavd-20241121023200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">08:02, 21 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Fram-20241121080200-Yoavd-20241121023200"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Fram-20241121080200-Yoavd-20241121023200"></span></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="ANI" data-mw-thread-id="h-ANI-20241121131700"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-ANI-20241121131700"></span>ANI<span data-mw-comment-end="h-ANI-20241121131700"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Fram&action=edit&section=44" title="Edit section: ANI"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Black_Kite-20241121131700-ANI"></span>Do you want me to revdel that section in the meantime? I presume it's to do with the blocked editors. <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Black_Kite" title="User talk:Black Kite">Black Kite (talk)</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Fram#c-Black_Kite-20241121131700-ANI" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">13:17, 21 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Black_Kite-20241121131700-ANI"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Black_Kite-20241121131700-ANI"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Fram-20241121131800-Black_Kite-20241121131700"></span>It's already suppressed, very swift work by the suppression team, thanks! And thank you Black Kite for the offer, would have been good otherwise. <a href="/wiki/User:Fram" class="mw-redirect" title="User:Fram">Fram</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Fram#c-Fram-20241121131800-Black_Kite-20241121131700" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">13:18, 21 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Fram-20241121131800-Black_Kite-20241121131700"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Fram-20241121131800-Black_Kite-20241121131700"></span></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Writ_Keeper-20241121131800-Black_Kite-20241121131700"></span>I already did, BK, and I believe it's been suppressed. Was under active discussion on the -en-revdel IRC channel. Thanks for reverting it, Fram. <a href="/wiki/User:Writ_Keeper" title="User:Writ Keeper">Writ Keeper</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Writ_Keeper" title="User talk:Writ Keeper">⚇</a><a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Writ_Keeper" title="Special:Contributions/Writ Keeper">♔</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Fram#c-Writ_Keeper-20241121131800-Black_Kite-20241121131700" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">13:18, 21 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Writ_Keeper-20241121131800-Black_Kite-20241121131700"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Writ_Keeper-20241121131800-Black_Kite-20241121131700"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Black_Kite-20241121132000-Writ_Keeper-20241121131800"></span>So my next question is; did Explicit see my final warning for his <i>really</i> nasty personal attack on Liz? Hmmm. <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Black_Kite" title="User talk:Black Kite">Black Kite (talk)</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Fram#c-Black_Kite-20241121132000-Writ_Keeper-20241121131800" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">13:20, 21 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Black_Kite-20241121132000-Writ_Keeper-20241121131800"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Black_Kite-20241121132000-Writ_Keeper-20241121131800"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Fram-20241121132100-Black_Kite-20241121132000"></span>You can always post it on his talk page. <a href="/wiki/User:Fram" class="mw-redirect" title="User:Fram">Fram</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Fram#c-Fram-20241121132100-Black_Kite-20241121132000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">13:21, 21 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Fram-20241121132100-Black_Kite-20241121132000"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Fram-20241121132100-Black_Kite-20241121132000"></span></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Fram-20241121132100-Black_Kite-20241121132000-1"></span>And if I recall correctly, it was not only a nasty PA but a badly sexist one at that. <a href="/wiki/User:Fram" class="mw-redirect" title="User:Fram">Fram</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Fram#c-Fram-20241121132100-Black_Kite-20241121132000-1" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">13:21, 21 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Fram-20241121132100-Black_Kite-20241121132000-1"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Fram-20241121132100-Black_Kite-20241121132000-1"></span></dd></dl></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Fram-20241121132100-Writ_Keeper-20241121131800"></span>No problem, was a bit amazed it stayed up for so long, but apparently multiple editors were thinking the same as me at about the same time, e.g. <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Explicit#You've_got_mail" title="User talk:Explicit">User_talk:Explicit#You've_got_mail</a>. <a href="/wiki/User:Fram" class="mw-redirect" title="User:Fram">Fram</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Fram#c-Fram-20241121132100-Writ_Keeper-20241121131800" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">13:21, 21 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Fram-20241121132100-Writ_Keeper-20241121131800"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Fram-20241121132100-Writ_Keeper-20241121131800"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Writ_Keeper-20241121132200-Fram-20241121132100"></span>Yeah, honestly I was a bit too, I was working on redacting the usernames when I saw that you had just removed the thread (a more than reasonable call). I think the oversighters might restore the thread, with the sensitive info in question redacted. <a href="/wiki/User:Writ_Keeper" title="User:Writ Keeper">Writ Keeper</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Writ_Keeper" title="User talk:Writ Keeper">⚇</a><a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Writ_Keeper" title="Special:Contributions/Writ Keeper">♔</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Fram#c-Writ_Keeper-20241121132200-Fram-20241121132100" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">13:22, 21 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Writ_Keeper-20241121132200-Fram-20241121132100"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Writ_Keeper-20241121132200-Fram-20241121132100"></span> <dl><dd><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Incidents#User:Liz_is_wheel_warring" title="Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Writ_Keeper-20241121132600-Writ_Keeper-20241121132200"></span>Section has been restored, with the appropriate redactions</a>. <a href="/wiki/User:Writ_Keeper" title="User:Writ Keeper">Writ Keeper</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Writ_Keeper" title="User talk:Writ Keeper">⚇</a><a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Writ_Keeper" title="Special:Contributions/Writ Keeper">♔</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Fram#c-Writ_Keeper-20241121132600-Writ_Keeper-20241121132200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">13:26, 21 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Writ_Keeper-20241121132600-Writ_Keeper-20241121132200"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Writ_Keeper-20241121132600-Writ_Keeper-20241121132200"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="You've_got_mail" data-mw-thread-id="h-You've_got_mail-20241121132200"><span id="You.27ve_got_mail"></span><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-You've_got_mail-20241121132200"></span>You've got mail<span data-mw-comment-end="h-You've_got_mail-20241121132200"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Fram&action=edit&section=45" title="Edit section: You've got mail"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Qcne-20241121132200-You've_got_mail"></span><style data-mw-deduplicate="TemplateStyles:r1256396942">.mw-parser-output .umbox{background-color:var(--background-color-content-added,#a3d3ff);border:1px solid var(--border-color-progressive,#36c);padding:0.5em 1em;margin:2em 0 1em;font-weight:bold;overflow:auto;vertical-align:middle}</style> <div class="umbox"><figure class="mw-halign-left" typeof="mw:File"><span><img src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/49/Mail-message-new.svg/40px-Mail-message-new.svg.png" decoding="async" width="40" height="40" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/49/Mail-message-new.svg/60px-Mail-message-new.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/49/Mail-message-new.svg/80px-Mail-message-new.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="48" data-file-height="48"/></span><figcaption></figcaption></figure>Hello, Fram. Please check your email; you've got mail! <br/><span class="plainlinks" style="font-size: 88%; font-weight: normal;"> It may take a few minutes from the time the email is sent for it to show up in your inbox. You can <span class="noprint plainlinks" title="Edit {{{1}}}"><a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Fram&action=edit">remove this notice</a></span> at any time by removing the <span class="nowrap">{{</span><a href="/wiki/Template:You%27ve_got_mail" title="Template:You've got mail">You've got mail</a><span class="nowrap">}}</span> or <span class="nowrap">{{</span><a href="/wiki/Template:Ygm" class="mw-redirect" title="Template:Ygm">ygm</a><span class="nowrap">}}</span> template.</span> <span style="background-color: RoyalBlue; border-radius: 1em; padding: 3px 3px 3px 3px;"><b><a href="/wiki/User:Qcne" title="User:Qcne"><span style="color: GhostWhite">qcne</span></a></b> <small><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Qcne" title="User talk:Qcne"><span style="color: GhostWhite">(talk)</span></a></small></span> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Fram#c-Qcne-20241121132200-You've_got_mail" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">13:22, 21 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Qcne-20241121132200-You've_got_mail"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Qcne-20241121132200-You've_got_mail"></span></div> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Speedy_deletion_nomination_of_Category:1962_establishments_in_Montenegro" data-mw-thread-id="h-Speedy_deletion_nomination_of_Category:1962_establishments_in_Montenegro-20241122110000"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Speedy_deletion_nomination_of_Category:1962_establishments_in_Montenegro-20241122110000"></span><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Criteria_for_speedy_deletion" title="Wikipedia:Criteria for speedy deletion">Speedy deletion</a> nomination of <a href="/wiki/Category:1962_establishments_in_Montenegro" title="Category:1962 establishments in Montenegro">Category:1962 establishments in Montenegro</a><span data-mw-comment-end="h-Speedy_deletion_nomination_of_Category:1962_establishments_in_Montenegro-20241122110000"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Fram&action=edit&section=46" title="Edit section: Speedy deletion nomination of Category:1962 establishments in Montenegro"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Explicit-20241122110000-Speedy_deletion_nomination_of_Category:1962_establishments_in_Montenegro"></span><figure class="mw-halign-left" typeof="mw:File"><span><img alt="" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/1/15/Ambox_warning_pn.svg/48px-Ambox_warning_pn.svg.png" decoding="async" width="48" height="42" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/1/15/Ambox_warning_pn.svg/72px-Ambox_warning_pn.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/1/15/Ambox_warning_pn.svg/96px-Ambox_warning_pn.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="512" data-file-height="445"/></span><figcaption></figcaption></figure> <p>A tag has been placed on <a href="/wiki/Category:1962_establishments_in_Montenegro" title="Category:1962 establishments in Montenegro">Category:1962 establishments in Montenegro</a> indicating that it is currently empty, and is not a <a href="/wiki/Category:Disambiguation_categories" title="Category:Disambiguation categories">disambiguation category</a>, a <a href="/wiki/Category:Wikipedia_soft_redirected_categories" title="Category:Wikipedia soft redirected categories">category redirect</a>, under discussion at <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion" title="Wikipedia:Categories for discussion">Categories for discussion</a>, or a project category that by its nature may become empty on occasion. If it remains empty for seven days or more, it may be deleted under <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:CSD#C1" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:CSD">section C1 of the criteria for speedy deletion</a>. </p><p>If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason you may <b>contest the nomination</b> by <a href="/wiki/Category:1962_establishments_in_Montenegro" title="Category:1962 establishments in Montenegro">visiting the page</a> and removing the speedy deletion tag. <a href="/wiki/User:Explicit" title="User:Explicit"><span style="color:#000000">✗</span></a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Explicit" title="User talk:Explicit"><span style="color:white;background:black;font-family:felix titling;font-size:80%">plicit</span></a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Fram#c-Explicit-20241122110000-Speedy_deletion_nomination_of_Category:1962_establishments_in_Montenegro" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">11:00, 22 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Explicit-20241122110000-Speedy_deletion_nomination_of_Category:1962_establishments_in_Montenegro"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Explicit-20241122110000-Speedy_deletion_nomination_of_Category:1962_establishments_in_Montenegro"></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="The_recent_drought_page_split_suggestions" data-mw-thread-id="h-The_recent_drought_page_split_suggestions-20241122172500"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-The_recent_drought_page_split_suggestions-20241122172500"></span>The recent drought page split suggestions<span data-mw-comment-end="h-The_recent_drought_page_split_suggestions-20241122172500"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Fram&action=edit&section=47" title="Edit section: The recent drought page split suggestions"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Tropical_Storm_Angela-20241122172500-The_recent_drought_page_split_suggestions"></span>What is reason under which the 1950s--1960s North American drought should be broken in two? And why doesn't Wikipedia treat the page as one? <a href="/wiki/User:Tropical_Storm_Angela" title="User:Tropical Storm Angela"><span style="color:purple">Angela Kate Maureen</span></a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Tropical_Storm_Angela" title="User talk:Tropical Storm Angela"><span style="color:pink">Pears</span></a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Fram#c-Tropical_Storm_Angela-20241122172500-The_recent_drought_page_split_suggestions" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:25, 22 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Tropical_Storm_Angela-20241122172500-The_recent_drought_page_split_suggestions"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Tropical_Storm_Angela-20241122172500-The_recent_drought_page_split_suggestions"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Fram-20241122172700-Tropical_Storm_Angela-20241122172500"></span>All the sources you list treat them as two separate events (or more precisely, deal with either the 1950s one, or the 1960s one), so why should we turn them into one? <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:SYNTH" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:SYNTH">WP:SYNTH</a> comes into play here, don't lump things together when reliable sources don't treat them as one. <a href="/wiki/User:Fram" class="mw-redirect" title="User:Fram">Fram</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Fram#c-Fram-20241122172700-Tropical_Storm_Angela-20241122172500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:27, 22 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Fram-20241122172700-Tropical_Storm_Angela-20241122172500"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Fram-20241122172700-Tropical_Storm_Angela-20241122172500"></span></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Accidental_recreation_of_Big_and_medium_cats_in_Sindh" data-mw-thread-id="h-Accidental_recreation_of_Big_and_medium_cats_in_Sindh-20241126075000"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Accidental_recreation_of_Big_and_medium_cats_in_Sindh-20241126075000"></span>Accidental recreation of <a href="/wiki/Big_and_medium_cats_in_Sindh" title="Big and medium cats in Sindh">Big and medium cats in Sindh</a><span data-mw-comment-end="h-Accidental_recreation_of_Big_and_medium_cats_in_Sindh-20241126075000"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Fram&action=edit&section=48" title="Edit section: Accidental recreation of Big and medium cats in Sindh"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Rchard2scout-20241126075000-Accidental_recreation_of_Big_and_medium_cats_in_Sindh"></span>Hi Fram, it looks like I accidentally recreated an article I was editing it at while you moved it to draftspace. Then you draftified the duplicate, which has since been un-draftified by the creator, so now we have both <a href="/wiki/Big_and_medium_cats_in_Sindh" title="Big and medium cats in Sindh">Big and medium cats in Sindh</a> and <a href="/wiki/Draft:Wild_felids_in_Sindh" class="mw-redirect" title="Draft:Wild felids in Sindh">Draft:Wild felids in Sindh</a>. One of them should be deleted (or history-merged?), the mainspace article has already been draftified and un-draftified once, and I'm not sure of the proper next steps. Does a CSD apply here? Does PROD apply here? Does this need AfD? I don't know, and I'm hoping you do. Thanks! --<a href="/wiki/User:Rchard2scout" title="User:Rchard2scout">rchard2scout</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Rchard2scout" title="User talk:Rchard2scout">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Fram#c-Rchard2scout-20241126075000-Accidental_recreation_of_Big_and_medium_cats_in_Sindh" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">07:50, 26 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Rchard2scout-20241126075000-Accidental_recreation_of_Big_and_medium_cats_in_Sindh"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Rchard2scout-20241126075000-Accidental_recreation_of_Big_and_medium_cats_in_Sindh"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Fram-20241126075400-Rchard2scout-20241126075000"></span>Hi! <a href="/wiki/Draft:Wild_felids_in_Sindh" class="mw-redirect" title="Draft:Wild felids in Sindh">Draft:Wild felids in Sindh</a> needs to be hist-merged with <a href="/wiki/Big_and_medium_cats_in_Sindh" title="Big and medium cats in Sindh">Big and medium cats in Sindh</a> (not a good title I think). While I'm no fan of the article, I think it would survive an AfD, so I just leave it alone... <a href="/wiki/User:Fram" class="mw-redirect" title="User:Fram">Fram</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Fram#c-Fram-20241126075400-Rchard2scout-20241126075000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">07:54, 26 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Fram-20241126075400-Rchard2scout-20241126075000"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Fram-20241126075400-Rchard2scout-20241126075000"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Rchard2scout-20241126080500-Fram-20241126075400"></span>Thanks, I've tagged it as such. --<a href="/wiki/User:Rchard2scout" title="User:Rchard2scout">rchard2scout</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Rchard2scout" title="User talk:Rchard2scout">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Fram#c-Rchard2scout-20241126080500-Fram-20241126075400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">08:05, 26 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Rchard2scout-20241126080500-Fram-20241126075400"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Rchard2scout-20241126080500-Fram-20241126075400"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Speedy_deletion_declined:_Amar_Hoskote" data-mw-thread-id="h-Speedy_deletion_declined:_Amar_Hoskote-20241126104400"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Speedy_deletion_declined:_Amar_Hoskote-20241126104400"></span>Speedy deletion declined: <a href="/wiki/Amar_Hoskote" title="Amar Hoskote">Amar Hoskote</a><span data-mw-comment-end="h-Speedy_deletion_declined:_Amar_Hoskote-20241126104400"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Fram&action=edit&section=49" title="Edit section: Speedy deletion declined: Amar Hoskote"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Shirt58-20241126104400-Speedy_deletion_declined:_Amar_Hoskote"></span>Hello Fram. I am just letting you know that I declined the speedy deletion of <a href="/wiki/Amar_Hoskote" title="Amar Hoskote">Amar Hoskote</a>, a page you tagged for speedy deletion, because of the following concern: I think we should let <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Amar_Hoskote" title="Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Amar Hoskote">Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Amar Hoskote</a> run its course. <span class="template-ping">@<a href="/wiki/User:Fram" class="mw-redirect" title="User:Fram">Fram</a>:</span> While this speedy decline is not specifically intended to annoy you, it may well have that affect. . <a href="/wiki/User:Shirt58" title="User:Shirt58">Shirt58</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Shirt58" title="User talk:Shirt58">talk</a>) 🦘 10:44, 26 November 2024 (UTC). Thank you. <a href="/wiki/User:Shirt58" title="User:Shirt58">Shirt58</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Shirt58" title="User talk:Shirt58">talk</a>) 🦘 <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Fram#c-Shirt58-20241126104400-Speedy_deletion_declined:_Amar_Hoskote" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">10:44, 26 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Shirt58-20241126104400-Speedy_deletion_declined:_Amar_Hoskote"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Shirt58-20241126104400-Speedy_deletion_declined:_Amar_Hoskote"></span> </p>    </div><noscript><img src="https://login.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:CentralAutoLogin/start?type=1x1" alt="" width="1" height="1" style="border: none; position: absolute;"></noscript> <div class="printfooter" data-nosnippet="">Retrieved from "<a dir="ltr" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Fram&oldid=1259669789">https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Fram&oldid=1259669789</a>"</div></div> <div id="catlinks" class="catlinks catlinks-allhidden" data-mw="interface"></div> </div> </main> </div> <div class="mw-footer-container"> <footer id="footer" class="mw-footer" > <ul id="footer-info"> <li id="footer-info-lastmod"> This page was last edited on 26 November 2024, at 12:31<span class="anonymous-show"> (UTC)</span>.</li> <li id="footer-info-copyright">Text is available under the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Text_of_the_Creative_Commons_Attribution-ShareAlike_4.0_International_License" title="Wikipedia:Text of the Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike 4.0 International License">Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike 4.0 License</a>; additional terms may apply. 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