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href="#c-Ahri_Boy-20241124022100-Shovel_Shenanigans-20241124013300">52 minutes ago</a> by Ahri Boy in topic <a href="#Disclaimer">Disclaimer</a></div></div> </div> <div id="bodyContent" class="content"> <div id="mw-content-text" class="mw-body-content"><script>function mfTempOpenSection(id){var block=document.getElementById("mf-section-"+id);block.className+=" open-block";block.previousSibling.className+=" open-block";}</script><div class="mw-content-ltr mw-parser-output" lang="en" dir="ltr"><section class="mf-section-0" id="mf-section-0"><div class="shortdescription nomobile noexcerpt noprint searchaux" style="display:none">Notices of interest to administrators</div> <div class="navbox-styles"><style data-mw-deduplicate="TemplateStyles:r1129693374">.mw-parser-output .hlist dl,.mw-parser-output .hlist ol,.mw-parser-output .hlist ul{margin:0;padding:0}.mw-parser-output .hlist dd,.mw-parser-output .hlist dt,.mw-parser-output .hlist li{margin:0;display:inline}.mw-parser-output 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href="/wiki/Template:Noticeboard_links" title="Template:Noticeboard links"><abbr title="View this template">v</abbr></a></li><li class="nv-talk"><a href="/wiki/Template_talk:Noticeboard_links" title="Template talk:Noticeboard links"><abbr title="Discuss this template">t</abbr></a></li><li class="nv-edit"><a href="/wiki/Special:EditPage/Template:Noticeboard_links" title="Special:EditPage/Template:Noticeboard links"><abbr title="Edit this template">e</abbr></a></li></ul></div><div id="Noticeboards" style="font-size:114%;margin:0 4em"><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Noticeboards" title="Wikipedia:Noticeboards">Noticeboards</a></div></th></tr><tr><td class="navbox-abovebelow" colspan="2" style="background-color: #cae1ff;"><div>Wikipedia's centralized <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Request_directory" title="Wikipedia:Request directory">discussion, request, and help venues</a>. For a listing of ongoing discussions and current requests, see the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Dashboard" title="Wikipedia:Dashboard">dashboard</a>. For a related set of forums which do not function as noticeboards see <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Processes#Formal_review" title="Wikipedia:Processes">formal review processes</a>.</div></td></tr><tr><th scope="row" class="navbox-group" style="width:1%;background-color: #cae1ff;">General</th><td class="navbox-list-with-group navbox-list navbox-odd hlist" style="width:100%;padding:0"><div style="padding:0 0.25em"> <ul><li>Administrators <ul><li><a class="mw-selflink selflink">Main</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Incidents" title="Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents">Incidents</a></li></ul></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Bots/Noticeboard" title="Wikipedia:Bots/Noticeboard">Bots</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Bureaucrats%27_noticeboard" title="Wikipedia:Bureaucrats' noticeboard">Bureaucrats</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Centralized_discussion" title="Wikipedia:Centralized discussion">Centralized discussion</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Closure_requests" title="Wikipedia:Closure requests">Closure requests</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Education_noticeboard" title="Wikipedia:Education noticeboard">Education</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Interface_administrators%27_noticeboard" title="Wikipedia:Interface administrators' noticeboard">Interface admins</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Main_Page/Errors" title="Wikipedia:Main Page/Errors">Main Page errors</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_on_open_proxies" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject on open proxies">Open proxies</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:VRT_noticeboard" title="Wikipedia:VRT noticeboard">VRT</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Requests_for_oversight" title="Wikipedia:Requests for oversight">Oversight</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Requests_for_permissions" title="Wikipedia:Requests for permissions">User permissions</a></li></ul> </div></td></tr><tr><th scope="row" class="navbox-group" style="width:1%;background-color: #cae1ff;">Articles and content</th><td class="navbox-list-with-group navbox-list navbox-even hlist" style="width:100%;padding:0"><div style="padding:0 0.25em"> <ul><li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Biographies_of_living_persons/Noticeboard" title="Wikipedia:Biographies of living persons/Noticeboard">Biographies of living persons</a></li> <li>Copyrights <ul><li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Media_copyright_questions" title="Wikipedia:Media copyright questions">Questions on media</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Copyright_problems" title="Wikipedia:Copyright problems">Problems</a></li></ul></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard" title="Wikipedia:Dispute resolution noticeboard">Dispute resolution</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:External_links/Noticeboard" title="Wikipedia:External links/Noticeboard">External links</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Fringe_theories/Noticeboard" title="Wikipedia:Fringe theories/Noticeboard">Fringe theories</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Neutral_point_of_view/Noticeboard" title="Wikipedia:Neutral point of view/Noticeboard">Neutral point of view</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:No_original_research/Noticeboard" title="Wikipedia:No original research/Noticeboard">Original research</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Pending_changes" title="Wikipedia talk:Pending changes">Pending changes</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Reliable_sources/Noticeboard" title="Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Noticeboard">Reliable sources</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Resource_Exchange/Resource_Request" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Resource Exchange/Resource Request">Resource requests</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:SVG_help" title="Wikipedia:SVG help">Scalable vector graphics</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Spam" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Spam">Spam</a> <ul><li><a href="/wiki/MediaWiki_talk:Spam-blacklist" title="MediaWiki talk:Spam-blacklist">Blacklist</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/MediaWiki_talk:Spam-whitelist" title="MediaWiki talk:Spam-whitelist">Whitelist</a></li></ul></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Manual_of_Style" title="Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style">Style</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/MediaWiki_talk:Titleblacklist" title="MediaWiki talk:Titleblacklist">Titleblacklist</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Pages_needing_translation_into_English" title="Wikipedia:Pages needing translation into English">Translation</a></li></ul> </div></td></tr><tr><th scope="row" class="navbox-group" style="width:1%;background-color: #cae1ff;">Page handling</th><td class="navbox-list-with-group navbox-list navbox-odd hlist" style="width:100%;padding:0"><div style="padding:0 0.25em"> <ul><li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Requests_for_history_merge" title="Wikipedia:Requests for history merge">History merges</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Proposed_article_mergers" title="Wikipedia:Proposed article mergers">Mergers</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Proposed_article_splits" title="Wikipedia:Proposed article splits">Splits</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Requested_moves" title="Wikipedia:Requested moves">Moves</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Requests_for_page_protection" title="Wikipedia:Requests for page protection">Protection</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Requests_for_page_importation" title="Wikipedia:Requests for page importation">Importation</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Deletion_process" title="Wikipedia:Deletion process">XfD</a> <ul><li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion" title="Wikipedia:Articles for deletion">Articles</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Redirects_for_discussion" title="Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion">Redirects</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion" title="Wikipedia:Categories for discussion">Categories</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Templates_for_discussion" title="Wikipedia:Templates for discussion">Templates</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Files_for_discussion" title="Wikipedia:Files for discussion">Files</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Miscellany_for_deletion" title="Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion">Miscellany</a></li></ul></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Requests_for_undeletion" title="Wikipedia:Requests for undeletion">Undeletion</a></li></ul> </div></td></tr><tr><th scope="row" class="navbox-group" style="width:1%;background-color: #cae1ff;">User conduct</th><td class="navbox-list-with-group navbox-list navbox-even hlist" style="width:100%;padding:0"><div style="padding:0 0.25em"> <ul><li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Conflict_of_interest/Noticeboard" title="Wikipedia:Conflict of interest/Noticeboard">Conflict of interest</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Contributor_copyright_investigations" title="Wikipedia:Contributor copyright investigations">Contributor copyright</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Edit_warring" title="Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Edit warring">Edit warring and 3RR</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Sanctions" title="Wikipedia:Sanctions">Sanctions</a> <ul><li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Editing_restrictions" title="Wikipedia:Editing restrictions">Personal restrictions</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:General_sanctions" title="Wikipedia:General sanctions">General sanctions</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Contentious_topics" title="Wikipedia:Contentious topics">Contentious topics</a></li></ul></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Sockpuppet_investigations" title="Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations">Sockpuppets</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Usernames_for_administrator_attention" title="Wikipedia:Usernames for administrator attention">Usernames</a> (<a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Requests_for_comment/User_names" title="Wikipedia:Requests for comment/User names">Requests for comment</a>)</li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrator_intervention_against_vandalism" title="Wikipedia:Administrator intervention against vandalism">Vandalism</a></li></ul> </div></td></tr><tr><th scope="row" class="navbox-group" style="width:1%;background-color: #cae1ff;">Other</th><td class="navbox-list-with-group navbox-list navbox-odd hlist" style="width:100%;padding:0"><div style="padding:0 0.25em"> <ul><li>Arbitration <ul><li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration_Committee/Noticeboard" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration Committee/Noticeboard">Committee noticeboard</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests">Requests</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement">Enforcement</a></li></ul></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Edit_filter_noticeboard" title="Wikipedia:Edit filter noticeboard">Edit filters</a> <ul><li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Edit_filter/Requested" title="Wikipedia:Edit filter/Requested">Requested</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Edit_filter/False_positives" title="Wikipedia:Edit filter/False positives">False positives</a></li></ul></li> <li>Questions <ul><li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Help_desk" title="Wikipedia:Help desk">Help desk</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Teahouse" title="Wikipedia:Teahouse">Teahouse</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk" title="Wikipedia:Reference desk">Reference desk</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Articles_for_creation/Help_desk" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Articles for creation/Help desk">New articles</a></li></ul></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Requests_for_comment/All" title="Wikipedia:Requests for comment/All">Requests for comment</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Village_pump" title="Wikipedia:Village pump">Village pump</a> <ul><li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Village_pump_(policy)" title="Wikipedia:Village pump (policy)">Policy</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Village_pump_(technical)" title="Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)">Technical</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Village_pump_(proposals)" title="Wikipedia:Village pump (proposals)">Proposals</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Village_pump_(idea_lab)" title="Wikipedia:Village pump (idea lab)">Idea lab</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Village_pump_(WMF)" title="Wikipedia:Village pump (WMF)">WMF</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Village_pump_(miscellaneous)" title="Wikipedia:Village pump (miscellaneous)">Miscellaneous</a></li></ul></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Council/Proposals" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Council/Proposals">WikiProject proposals</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Discussions_for_discussion" title="Wikipedia:Discussions for discussion">Discussions for discussion</a></li></ul> </div></td></tr><tr><td class="navbox-abovebelow" colspan="2" style="background-color: #cae1ff;"><div> <a href="/wiki/Category:Wikipedia_noticeboards" title="Category:Wikipedia noticeboards">Category:Wikipedia noticeboards</a></div></td></tr></tbody></table></div><style data-mw-deduplicate="TemplateStyles:r1214005174">body.skin-vector-2022 .mw-parser-output .skip-to-toc,body.skin-timeless .mw-parser-output .skip-to-bottom,.mw-parser-output .skip-to-bottom-timeless{display:none}body.skin-timeless .mw-parser-output .skip-to-bottom-timeless{display:inline}</style> <ul></ul> <table style="width: 100%; margin: 2px 0 0.5em; padding: 1px; border: 1px solid #A0A5AD; background-color: var(--background-color-progressive-subtle, #eaf3ff); color: var(--color-base, #000);"> <tbody><tr> <th style="padding: 0.25em 0; text-align: center; font-size: 120%; border-radius: 3px; background-color: var(--background-color-content-added, #aad1ff); color: var(--color-base, #000);">Welcome — post issues of interest to <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators" title="Wikipedia:Administrators">administrators</a>. </th></tr> <tr> <td style="padding: 0 0.375em;"> <div style="margin: 0.5em 0;"><style data-mw-deduplicate="TemplateStyles:r1252059228">.mw-parser-output .module-shortcutboxplain{float:right;margin:0 0 0 1em;border:1px solid var(--border-color-base,#a2a9b1);background-color:var(--background-color-base,#fff);padding:0.3em 0.6em 0.2em 0.6em;text-align:center;font-size:85%}.mw-parser-output .module-shortcutboxleft{float:left;margin:0 1em 0 0}.mw-parser-output .module-shortcutlist{display:inline-block;border-bottom:1px solid var(--border-color-base,#a2a9b1);margin-bottom:0.2em}.mw-parser-output .module-shortcutboxplain ul{font-weight:bold}.mw-parser-output .module-shortcutanchordiv{position:relative;top:-3em}.mw-parser-output li .module-shortcutanchordiv{float:right}.mw-parser-output .mbox-imageright .module-shortcutboxplain{padding:0.4em 1em 0.4em 1em;line-height:1.3;margin:0}</style><div class="module-shortcutanchordiv"></div><div class="module-shortcutboxplain noprint" role="note"><div class="module-shortcutlist"><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Shortcut" title="Wikipedia:Shortcut">Shortcuts</a></div><style data-mw-deduplicate="TemplateStyles:r1126788409">.mw-parser-output .plainlist ol,.mw-parser-output .plainlist ul{line-height:inherit;list-style:none;margin:0;padding:0}.mw-parser-output .plainlist ol li,.mw-parser-output .plainlist ul li{margin-bottom:0}</style><div class="plainlist"><ul><li><a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:AN&redirect=no">WP:AN</a></li><li><a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:ANB&redirect=no">WP:ANB</a></li></ul></div></div></div> <ul><li>For urgent incidents and chronic, intractable behavioral problems, use <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Incidents" title="Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents">Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents</a>.</li> <li>If you are new, try the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Teahouse" title="Wikipedia:Teahouse">Wikipedia:Teahouse</a> instead.</li> <li>Do not report breaches of personal information on this highly visible page – instead, follow the instructions on <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Requests_for_oversight" title="Wikipedia:Requests for oversight">Wikipedia:Requests for oversight</a>.</li> <li>For administrative backlogs add <code>{{<a href="/wiki/Template:Admin_backlog" title="Template:Admin backlog">Admin backlog</a>}}</code> to the backlogged page; post here only if urgent.</li> <li>Do not post <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:RFPP" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:RFPP">requests for page protection</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:XFD" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:XFD">deletion requests</a>, or <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:BLOCKREQUESTS" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:BLOCKREQUESTS">block requests</a> here.</li> <li>Just want an admin? Contact a <a class="external text" href="https://apersonbot.toolforge.org/recently-active/?admins">recently active admin</a> directly.</li> <li>If opening a close appeal, use <code>{{<a href="/wiki/Template:RfC_closure_review" title="Template:RfC closure review">RfC closure review</a>}}</code></li></ul> <div class="skin-invert" style="width: 70%; margin: 1em auto; padding: 0 1em; border: 2px solid #ff0000; text-align: center; background-color: #ffeeee; color: #000000;"> When you start a discussion about an editor, you must leave a notice on their talk page. <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:PING" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:PING">Pinging</a> is <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Archive281#Difference_between_a_ping_and_a_noticeboard_notice" title="Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Archive281">not enough</a>. You may use <code>{{<a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Substitution" title="Wikipedia:Substitution">subst</a>:<a href="/wiki/Template:AN-notice" title="Template:AN-notice">AN-notice</a>}} ~~~~</code> to do so. </div> Sections inactive for over seven days are <a href="/wiki/Help:Archiving_a_talk_page" title="Help:Archiving a talk page">archived</a> by <a href="/wiki/User:Lowercase_sigmabot_III" title="User:Lowercase sigmabot III">Lowercase sigmabot III</a>.<style data-mw-deduplicate="TemplateStyles:r1150407293">body:not(.skin-minerva) .mw-parser-output .ifmobile>.mobile{display:none}body.skin-minerva .mw-parser-output .ifmobile>.nomobile{display:inherit;display:initial}</style>(<a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Archives" title="Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Archives">archives</a>, <a href="/wiki/Template:Administrators%27_noticeboard_archives/Search" title="Template:Administrators' noticeboard archives/Search">search</a>) <div style="border: 1px solid #aaaaaa; background-color: var(--color-inverted, #fff); text-align: center; font-size: 125%; padding-top:0.8em;padding-bottom:0.8em;"> <a href="/wiki/Special:NewSection/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard" title="Special:NewSection/Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard">Start a new discussion</a></div> </td></tr></tbody></table> <div id="toc" class="toc" role="navigation" aria-labelledby="mw-toc-heading"><input type="checkbox" role="button" id="toctogglecheckbox" class="toctogglecheckbox" style="display:none"><div class="toctitle" lang="en" dir="ltr"><h2 id="mw-toc-heading">Contents</h2><label class="toctogglelabel" for="toctogglecheckbox"></label></div> <ul> <li class="toclevel-1 tocsection-1"><a href="#Open_tasks">1 Open tasks</a></li> <li class="toclevel-1 tocsection-2"><a href="#Unban_request_for_Wikiuser1314">2 Unban request for Wikiuser1314</a></li> <li class="toclevel-1 tocsection-3"><a href="#Closure_request_for_Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard/Archive366#IBAN_appeal">3 Closure request for Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Archive366#IBAN appeal</a></li> <li class="toclevel-1 tocsection-4"><a href="#Seeking_opinions:_protection_of_the_help_desk_and_teahouse">4 Seeking opinions: protection of the help desk and teahouse</a> <ul> <li class="toclevel-2 tocsection-5"><a href="#Proposal:_Ask_the_WMF_to_evaluate_legal_remedies">4.1 Proposal: Ask the WMF to evaluate legal remedies</a></li> </ul> </li> <li class="toclevel-1 tocsection-6"><a href="#InfoWars_link">5 InfoWars link</a></li> <li class="toclevel-1 tocsection-7"><a href="#Need_an_RFC_closed">6 Need an RFC closed</a></li> <li class="toclevel-1 tocsection-8"><a href="#Unban/unblock_request_for_Albertpda">7 Unban/unblock request for Albertpda</a></li> <li class="toclevel-1 tocsection-9"><a href="#Courtesy_un-pblock_for_deceased_user">8 Courtesy un-pblock for deceased user</a></li> <li class="toclevel-1 tocsection-10"><a href="#Deacon_of_Pndapetzim">9 Deacon of Pndapetzim</a></li> <li class="toclevel-1 tocsection-11"><a href="#Appeal_for_Lifting_Topic_Ban">10 Appeal for Lifting Topic Ban</a></li> <li class="toclevel-1 tocsection-12"><a href="#TP:ACEMM_not_subbing_properly">11 TP:ACEMM not subbing properly</a></li> <li class="toclevel-1 tocsection-13"><a href="#Revdel?_(Can%E2%80%99t_use_oversight)">12 Revdel? (Can’t use oversight)</a></li> <li class="toclevel-1 tocsection-14"><a href="#Most_active_administrators">13 Most active administrators</a></li> <li class="toclevel-1 tocsection-15"><a href="#Request_to_Review_and_Remove_%22Ilsa,_She_Wolf_of_the_SS%22">14 Request to Review and Remove "Ilsa, She Wolf of the SS"</a></li> <li class="toclevel-1 tocsection-16"><a href="#Thanks!">15 Thanks!</a></li> <li class="toclevel-1 tocsection-17"><a href="#User:AnubisIbizu_requesting_an_unblock">16 User:AnubisIbizu requesting an unblock</a></li> <li class="toclevel-1 tocsection-18"><a href="#WickedFanAccount_%22outing%22_and_digging_through_my_social_media">17 WickedFanAccount "outing" and digging through my social media</a></li> <li class="toclevel-1 tocsection-19"><a href="#Discussion_at_Wikipedia:Village_pump_(proposals)_%C2%A7_RfC:_Enable_the_mergehistory_permission_for_importers">18 Discussion at Wikipedia:Village pump (proposals) § RfC: Enable the mergehistory permission for importers</a></li> <li class="toclevel-1 tocsection-20"><a href="#Cut-and-paste_move_and_draftification;_unclear_how_to_proceed">19 Cut-and-paste move and draftification; unclear how to proceed</a></li> <li class="toclevel-1 tocsection-21"><a href="#Is_WP:RECALL_a_policy?">20 Is WP:RECALL a policy?</a></li> <li class="toclevel-1 tocsection-22"><a href="#Notification_of_a_request_for_transwiki_importer_rights">21 Notification of a request for transwiki importer rights</a></li> <li class="toclevel-1 tocsection-23"><a href="#User:ReflexSpray_violating_General_sanctions">22 User:ReflexSpray violating General sanctions</a></li> <li class="toclevel-1 tocsection-24"><a href="#Wikizilla">23 Wikizilla</a></li> <li class="toclevel-1 tocsection-25"><a href="#MissionWar123">24 MissionWar123</a></li> <li class="toclevel-1 tocsection-26"><a href="#History_merge">25 History merge</a></li> <li class="toclevel-1 tocsection-27"><a href="#Edit_request_for_protected_page">26 Edit request for protected page</a></li> <li class="toclevel-1 tocsection-28"><a href="#Self-reporting_rollback">27 Self-reporting rollback</a></li> <li class="toclevel-1 tocsection-29"><a href="#Block/unblock_review_scifaxEditor">28 Block/unblock review scifaxEditor</a></li> <li class="toclevel-1 tocsection-30"><a href="#Disclaimer">29 Disclaimer</a></li> </ul> </div> </section><div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section section-heading" onclick="mfTempOpenSection(1)"><h2 id="Open_tasks" data-mw-thread-id="h-Open_tasks">Open tasks</h2> <a role="button" href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard&action=edit&section=1" title="Edit section: Open tasks" class="cdx-button cdx-button--size-large cdx-button--fake-button cdx-button--fake-button--enabled cdx-button--icon-only cdx-button--weight-quiet "> edit </a> <span id='ooui-php-413' class='ext-discussiontools-init-section-overflowMenuButton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-buttonWidget' data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonMenuSelectWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"ellipsis","data":{"itemConfigs":[{"id":"edit","data":{"id":"edit"},"icon":"edit","label":"Edit"}],"resourceLoaderModules":[]},"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-section-overflowMenuButton"]}'><a role='button' tabindex='0' rel='nofollow' class='oo-ui-buttonElement-button'></a></div><section class="mf-section-1 collapsible-block" id="mf-section-1"> <style data-mw-deduplicate="TemplateStyles:r1246091330">.mw-parser-output .sidebar{width:22em;float:right;clear:right;margin:0.5em 0 1em 1em;background:var(--background-color-neutral-subtle,#f8f9fa);border:1px solid var(--border-color-base,#a2a9b1);padding:0.2em;text-align:center;line-height:1.4em;font-size:88%;border-collapse:collapse;display:table}body.skin-minerva .mw-parser-output .sidebar{display:table!important;float:right!important;margin:0.5em 0 1em 1em!important}.mw-parser-output .sidebar-subgroup{width:100%;margin:0;border-spacing:0}.mw-parser-output .sidebar-left{float:left;clear:left;margin:0.5em 1em 1em 0}.mw-parser-output .sidebar-none{float:none;clear:both;margin:0.5em 1em 1em 0}.mw-parser-output .sidebar-outer-title{padding:0 0.4em 0.2em;font-size:125%;line-height:1.2em;font-weight:bold}.mw-parser-output .sidebar-top-image{padding:0.4em}.mw-parser-output .sidebar-top-caption,.mw-parser-output .sidebar-pretitle-with-top-image,.mw-parser-output .sidebar-caption{padding:0.2em 0.4em 0;line-height:1.2em}.mw-parser-output .sidebar-pretitle{padding:0.4em 0.4em 0;line-height:1.2em}.mw-parser-output .sidebar-title,.mw-parser-output .sidebar-title-with-pretitle{padding:0.2em 0.8em;font-size:145%;line-height:1.2em}.mw-parser-output .sidebar-title-with-pretitle{padding:0.1em 0.4em}.mw-parser-output .sidebar-image{padding:0.2em 0.4em 0.4em}.mw-parser-output .sidebar-heading{padding:0.1em 0.4em}.mw-parser-output .sidebar-content{padding:0 0.5em 0.4em}.mw-parser-output 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.sidebar-list-title,html.skin-theme-clientpref-night .mw-parser-output .sidebar:not(.notheme) .sidebar-title-with-pretitle{background:transparent!important}html.skin-theme-clientpref-night .mw-parser-output .sidebar:not(.notheme) .sidebar-title-with-pretitle a{color:var(--color-progressive)!important}}@media screen and (prefers-color-scheme:dark){html.skin-theme-clientpref-os .mw-parser-output .sidebar:not(.notheme) .sidebar-list-title,html.skin-theme-clientpref-os .mw-parser-output .sidebar:not(.notheme) .sidebar-title-with-pretitle{background:transparent!important}html.skin-theme-clientpref-os .mw-parser-output .sidebar:not(.notheme) .sidebar-title-with-pretitle a{color:var(--color-progressive)!important}}@media print{body.ns-0 .mw-parser-output .sidebar{display:none!important}}</style><style data-mw-deduplicate="TemplateStyles:r1232920458">.mw-parser-output .centralized-discussion{width:45%;min-width:10em;border:1px solid var(--border-color-base,#a2a9b1);font-weight:bold;background-color:var(--background-color-base,#fff);color:var(--color-base,#202122);font-size:100%;padding:0;line-height:inherit;display:block}body.skin-minerva .mw-parser-output .centralized-discussion{display:block!important}.mw-parser-output .centralized-discussion-center{float:none;clear:both;margin:0 auto}.mw-parser-output .centralized-discussion-title{background-color:#D6EFFC;padding:3px 5px;font-size:larger}.mw-parser-output .centralized-discussion-image{border-bottom:1px solid var(--border-color-base,#a2a9b1);padding:3px 5px}.mw-parser-output .centralized-discussion-vps{background-color:#D6EFFC;font-size:85%;padding-bottom:0.2em}.mw-parser-output .centralized-discussion-list{border-top:1px solid var(--border-color-base,#a2a9b1);font-size:90%;font-weight:normal;text-align:left}.mw-parser-output .centralized-discussion-local{margin:0 5px}.mw-parser-output .centralized-discussion-meta{border-top:1px solid var(--border-color-base,#a2a9b1);margin:0 5px}.mw-parser-output .centralized-discussion-ongoing{padding-bottom:0.2em;line-height:1.3em;border-top:1px solid var(--border-color-base,#a2a9b1);font-style:italic;font-weight:bold;text-align:center}.mw-parser-output .centralized-discussion-navbar{border-top:1px solid var(--border-color-base,#a2a9b1);background-color:#D6EFFC;padding:0 5px;font-size:85%;text-align:center}html.skin-theme-clientpref-night .mw-parser-output .centralized-discussion-title,html.skin-theme-clientpref-night .mw-parser-output .centralized-discussion-vps,html.skin-theme-clientpref-night .mw-parser-output .centralized-discussion-navbar{background-color:#082849}html.skin-theme-clientpref-night .mw-parser-output .centralized-discussion-image{filter:brightness(0.6)}@media screen and (prefers-color-scheme:dark){html.skin-theme-clientpref-os .mw-parser-output .centralized-discussion-title,html.skin-theme-clientpref-os .mw-parser-output .centralized-discussion-vps,html.skin-theme-clientpref-os .mw-parser-output .centralized-discussion-navbar{background-color:#082849}html.skin-theme-clientpref-os .mw-parser-output .centralized-discussion-image{filter:brightness(0.6)}}</style> <div role="navigation" aria-label="centralized-discussion-label" class="sidebar sidebar-wraplinks centralized-discussion sidebar-left"> <div id="centralized-discussion-label" class="centralized-discussion-title"><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Centralized_discussion" title="Wikipedia:Centralized discussion">Centralized discussion</a></div> <div class="centralized-discussion-list"> <div class="centralized-discussion-local"> <ul><li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Village_pump_(proposals)#RfC:_Enable_the_mergehistory_permission_for_importers" title="Wikipedia:Village pump (proposals)">Should mergehistory be enabled for importers?</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Article_titles#Request_for_comment_on_the_relationship_between_WP:CRITERIA_and_WP:TITLEFORMAT" title="Wikipedia talk:Article titles">Should WP:TITLEFORMAT take precedence over WP:CRITERIA?</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:2024_open_letter_to_the_Wikimedia_Foundation" title="Wikipedia:2024 open letter to the Wikimedia Foundation">Open letter regarding the Wikimedia Foundation's potential disclosure of editors' personal information</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Village_pump_(proposals)#RfC:_Extended_confirmed_pending_changes_(PCECP)" title="Wikipedia:Village pump (proposals)">Extended-confirmed pending changes and preemptive protection in contentious topics</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Village_pump_(policy)#Date_redirects_to_portals?" title="Wikipedia:Village pump (policy)">Are portals encyclopedic, and are they appropriate redirect targets?</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Administrator_recall#RfC:_Should_we_add_text_prescribing_just_signatures,_no_discussion?" title="Wikipedia talk:Administrator recall">Should recall petitions be limited to signatures only?</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Requests_for_comment/Shorten_recall_petition_period" title="Wikipedia:Requests for comment/Shorten recall petition period">Should the length of recall petitions be shortened?</a></li></ul> </div> </div> </div> <div style="float: right; clear: right; margin: 0 0 1em 1em; text-align: right"> <table class="noprint skin-invert" style="background-color: #fdfdfd; clear: both; padding: 1px; box-sizing: border-box; border: 1px solid #a2a9b1; font-size:88%; line-height:1.2em; margin:0; width:auto; text-align:center"> <caption>Noticeboard archives </caption> <tbody><tr> <th style="background-color: #ccf; font-size: 111%; line-height: 1.25em;" colspan="10"><a class="mw-selflink selflink">Administrators'</a> (<a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Archives" title="Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Archives">archives</a>, <a href="/wiki/Template:Administrators%27_noticeboard_archives/Search" title="Template:Administrators' noticeboard archives/Search">search</a>) </th></tr> <tr> <td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Archive347" title="Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Archive347">347</a> </td> <td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Archive348" title="Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Archive348">348</a> </td> <td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Archive349" title="Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Archive349">349</a> </td> <td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Archive350" title="Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Archive350">350</a> </td> <td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Archive351" title="Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Archive351">351</a> </td> <td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Archive352" title="Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Archive352">352</a> </td> <td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Archive353" title="Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Archive353">353</a> </td> <td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Archive354" title="Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Archive354">354</a> </td> <td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Archive355" title="Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Archive355">355</a> </td> <td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Archive356" title="Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Archive356">356</a> </td></tr> <tr> <td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Archive357" title="Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Archive357">357</a> </td> <td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Archive358" title="Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Archive358">358</a> </td> <td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Archive359" title="Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Archive359">359</a> </td> <td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Archive360" title="Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Archive360">360</a> </td> <td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Archive361" title="Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Archive361">361</a> </td> <td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Archive362" title="Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Archive362">362</a> </td> <td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Archive363" title="Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Archive363">363</a> </td> <td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Archive364" title="Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Archive364">364</a> </td> <td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Archive365" title="Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Archive365">365</a> </td> <td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Archive366" title="Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Archive366">366</a> </td></tr> <tr> <th style="background-color: #ccf; font-size: 111%; line-height: 1.25em;" colspan="10"><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Incidents" title="Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents">Incidents</a> (<a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/IncidentArchives" title="Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/IncidentArchives">archives</a>, <a href="/wiki/Template:Administrators%27_noticeboard_archives/Search" title="Template:Administrators' noticeboard archives/Search">search</a>) </th></tr> <tr> <td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/IncidentArchive1153" title="Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/IncidentArchive1153">1153</a> </td> <td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/IncidentArchive1154" title="Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/IncidentArchive1154">1154</a> </td> <td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/IncidentArchive1155" title="Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/IncidentArchive1155">1155</a> </td> <td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/IncidentArchive1156" title="Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/IncidentArchive1156">1156</a> </td> <td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/IncidentArchive1157" title="Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/IncidentArchive1157">1157</a> </td> <td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/IncidentArchive1158" title="Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/IncidentArchive1158">1158</a> </td> <td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/IncidentArchive1159" title="Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/IncidentArchive1159">1159</a> </td> <td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/IncidentArchive1160" title="Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/IncidentArchive1160">1160</a> </td> <td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/IncidentArchive1161" title="Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/IncidentArchive1161">1161</a> </td> <td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/IncidentArchive1162" title="Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/IncidentArchive1162">1162</a> </td></tr> <tr> <td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/IncidentArchive1163" title="Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/IncidentArchive1163">1163</a> </td> <td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/IncidentArchive1164" title="Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/IncidentArchive1164">1164</a> </td> <td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/IncidentArchive1165" title="Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/IncidentArchive1165">1165</a> </td> <td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/IncidentArchive1166" title="Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/IncidentArchive1166">1166</a> </td> <td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/IncidentArchive1167" title="Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/IncidentArchive1167">1167</a> </td> <td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/IncidentArchive1168" title="Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/IncidentArchive1168">1168</a> </td> <td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/IncidentArchive1169" title="Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/IncidentArchive1169">1169</a> </td> <td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/IncidentArchive1170" title="Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/IncidentArchive1170">1170</a> </td> <td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/IncidentArchive1171" title="Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/IncidentArchive1171">1171</a> </td> <td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/IncidentArchive1172" title="Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/IncidentArchive1172">1172</a> </td></tr> <tr> <th style="background-color: #ccf; font-size: 111%; line-height: 1.25em;" colspan="10"><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Edit_warring" title="Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Edit warring">Edit-warring/3RR</a> (<a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/3RRArchives" title="Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/3RRArchives">archives</a>, <a href="/wiki/Template:Administrators%27_noticeboard_archives/Search" title="Template:Administrators' noticeboard archives/Search">search</a>) </th></tr> <tr> <td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/3RRArchive470" title="Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/3RRArchive470">470</a> </td> <td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/3RRArchive471" title="Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/3RRArchive471">471</a> </td> <td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/3RRArchive472" title="Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/3RRArchive472">472</a> </td> <td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/3RRArchive473" title="Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/3RRArchive473">473</a> </td> <td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/3RRArchive474" title="Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/3RRArchive474">474</a> </td> <td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/3RRArchive475" title="Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/3RRArchive475">475</a> </td> <td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/3RRArchive476" title="Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/3RRArchive476">476</a> </td> <td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/3RRArchive477" title="Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/3RRArchive477">477</a> </td> <td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/3RRArchive478" title="Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/3RRArchive478">478</a> </td> <td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/3RRArchive479" title="Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/3RRArchive479">479</a> </td></tr> <tr> <td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/3RRArchive480" title="Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/3RRArchive480">480</a> </td> <td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/3RRArchive481" title="Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/3RRArchive481">481</a> </td> <td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/3RRArchive482" title="Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/3RRArchive482">482</a> </td> <td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/3RRArchive483" title="Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/3RRArchive483">483</a> </td> <td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/3RRArchive484" title="Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/3RRArchive484">484</a> </td> <td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/3RRArchive485" title="Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/3RRArchive485">485</a> </td> <td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/3RRArchive486" title="Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/3RRArchive486">486</a> </td> <td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/3RRArchive487" title="Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/3RRArchive487">487</a> </td> <td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/3RRArchive488" title="Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/3RRArchive488">488</a> </td> <td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/3RRArchive489" title="Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/3RRArchive489">489</a> </td></tr> <tr> <th style="background-color: #ccf; font-size: 111%; line-height: 1.25em;" colspan="10"><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement">Arbitration enforcement</a> (<a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive">archives</a>) </th></tr> <tr> <td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive325" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive325">325</a> </td> <td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive326" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive326">326</a> </td> <td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive327" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive327">327</a> </td> <td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive328" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive328">328</a> </td> <td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive329" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive329">329</a> </td> <td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive330" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive330">330</a> </td> <td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive331" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive331">331</a> </td> <td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive332" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive332">332</a> </td> <td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive333" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive333">333</a> </td> <td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive334" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive334">334</a> </td></tr> <tr> <td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive335" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive335">335</a> </td> <td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive336" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive336">336</a> </td> <td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive337" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive337">337</a> </td> <td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive338" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive338">338</a> </td> <td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive339" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive339">339</a> </td> <td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive340" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive340">340</a> </td> <td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive341" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive341">341</a> </td> <td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive342" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive342">342</a> </td> <td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive343" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive343">343</a> </td> <td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive344" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive344">344</a> </td></tr> <tr> <th style="background-color: #ccf; font-size: 111%; line-height: 1.25em;" colspan="10">Other links </th></tr> <tr> <td colspan="10" style="text-align: center;"><link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1129693374"><div class="hlist"><ul><li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Administrators%27_noticeboard" title="Wikipedia talk:Administrators' noticeboard">Talk</a></li><li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Sockpuppet_investigations" title="Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations">Sockpuppet investigations</a></li><li><a href="/wiki/Category:Administrative_backlog" title="Category:Administrative backlog">Backlog</a></li></ul></div> </td></tr> <tr> <th colspan="10" style="white-space: nowrap;"><div class="mw-inputbox-centered" style=""><form name="searchbox" class="searchbox mw-inputbox-form-inline" action="/wiki/Special:Search"><div class="cdx-text-input"><input class="mw-searchInput searchboxInput cdx-text-input__input" name="search" placeholder="Search noticeboards archives" size="32" dir="ltr"></div><input type="hidden" value="Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard" name="prefix"> <input type="submit" name="fulltext" value="Search" class="cdx-button"><input type="hidden" value="Search" name="fulltext"></form></div> </th></tr></tbody></table> </div> <div style="clear:both;" class=""></div> <style data-mw-deduplicate="TemplateStyles:r1158435425">.mw-parser-output .xfd-backlog{font-size:92%;text-align:center}.mw-parser-output .xfd-backlog tr td:last-child{font-weight:bold}@media(min-width:720px){.mw-parser-output .xfd-backlog{width:20em;margin:0 1em 1em 1em}.mw-parser-output .xfd-backlog-right{float:right;margin:0 0 1em 1em;clear:right}.mw-parser-output .xfd-backlog-left{float:left;margin:0 1em 1em 0}}</style> <table class="wikitable xfd-backlog xfd-backlog-left"> <caption>XFD backlog </caption> <tbody><tr> <th scope="col"><abbr title="Venue">V</abbr> </th> <th scope="col">Aug </th> <th scope="col">Sep </th> <th scope="col">Oct </th> <th scope="col">Nov </th> <th scope="col">Total </th></tr> <tr> <th scope="row"><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion" title="Wikipedia:Categories for discussion">CfD</a> </th> <td>0 </td> <td>0 </td> <td>0 </td> <td>26 </td> <td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion#Discussions_awaiting_closure" title="Wikipedia:Categories for discussion">26</a> </td></tr> <tr> <th scope="row"><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Templates_for_discussion" title="Wikipedia:Templates for discussion">TfD</a> </th> <td>0 </td> <td>0 </td> <td>0 </td> <td>14 </td> <td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Templates_for_discussion#Old_discussions" title="Wikipedia:Templates for discussion">14</a> </td></tr> <tr> <th scope="row"><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Miscellany_for_deletion" title="Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion">MfD</a> </th> <td>0 </td> <td>0 </td> <td>0 </td> <td>3 </td> <td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Miscellany_for_deletion#Old_business" title="Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion">3</a> </td></tr> <tr> <th scope="row"><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Files_for_discussion" title="Wikipedia:Files for discussion">FfD</a> </th> <td>0 </td> <td>0 </td> <td>0 </td> <td>9 </td> <td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Files_for_discussion#Old_discussions" title="Wikipedia:Files for discussion">9</a> </td></tr> <tr> <th scope="row"><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Redirects_for_discussion" title="Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion">RfD</a> </th> <td>0 </td> <td>0 </td> <td>0 </td> <td>71 </td> <td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Redirects_for_discussion#toc" title="Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion">71</a> </td></tr> <tr> <th scope="row"><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion" title="Wikipedia:Articles for deletion">AfD</a> </th> <td>0 </td> <td>0 </td> <td>0 </td> <td>0 </td> <td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion#Old_discussions_(open)" title="Wikipedia:Articles for deletion">0</a> </td></tr></tbody></table> <style data-mw-deduplicate="TemplateStyles:r1184024115">.mw-parser-output .div-col{margin-top:0.3em;column-width:30em}.mw-parser-output .div-col-small{font-size:90%}.mw-parser-output .div-col-rules{column-rule:1px solid #aaa}.mw-parser-output .div-col dl,.mw-parser-output .div-col ol,.mw-parser-output .div-col ul{margin-top:0}.mw-parser-output .div-col li,.mw-parser-output .div-col dd{page-break-inside:avoid;break-inside:avoid-column}</style><div class="div-col" style="column-width: 20em;"> <ul><li>6 <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Usernames_for_administrator_attention/Bot" title="Wikipedia:Usernames for administrator attention/Bot">bot-reported usernames for administrator attention</a></li> <li>2 <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Usernames_for_administrator_attention" title="Wikipedia:Usernames for administrator attention">user-reported usernames for administrator attention</a></li> <li>2 <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrator_intervention_against_vandalism/TB2" title="Wikipedia:Administrator intervention against vandalism/TB2">bot-generated requests for intervention against vandalism</a></li> <li>1 <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrator_intervention_against_vandalism" title="Wikipedia:Administrator intervention against vandalism">user-generated requests for intervention against vandalism</a></li> <li>19 <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Sockpuppet_investigations" title="Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations">sockpuppet investigations</a></li> <li>3 <a href="/wiki/Category:Candidates_for_speedy_deletion" title="Category:Candidates for speedy deletion">Candidates for speedy deletion</a></li> <li>1 <a href="/wiki/User:AnomieBOT/PERTable" title="User:AnomieBOT/PERTable">Fully protected edit requests</a></li> <li>0 <a href="/wiki/Category:Candidates_for_history_merging" title="Category:Candidates for history merging">Candidates for history merging</a></li> <li>0 <a href="/wiki/Category:Requested_RD1_redactions" title="Category:Requested RD1 redactions">requests for RD1 redaction</a></li> <li>26 <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Requested_moves/Current_discussions#Elapsed_listings" title="Wikipedia:Requested moves/Current discussions">elapsed requested moves</a></li> <li>2 <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Move_review#Active_discussions" title="Wikipedia:Move review">Pages at move review</a></li> <li>10 <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Closure_requests" title="Wikipedia:Closure requests">requested closures</a></li> <li>101 <a href="/wiki/Category:Requests_for_unblock" title="Category:Requests for unblock">requests for unblock</a></li> <li>0 <a href="/wiki/Category:Wikipedians_looking_for_help_from_administrators" title="Category:Wikipedians looking for help from administrators">Wikipedians looking for help from administrators</a></li> <li>7 <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Copyright_problems" title="Wikipedia:Copyright problems">Copyright problems</a></li></ul> </div> <div style="clear:both;" class=""></div> </section><div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section section-heading" onclick="mfTempOpenSection(2)"><h2 id="Unban_request_for_Wikiuser1314" data-mw-thread-id="h-Unban_request_for_Wikiuser1314-20241104125600">Unban request for Wikiuser1314</h2> <a role="button" href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard&action=edit&section=2" title="Edit section: Unban request for Wikiuser1314" class="cdx-button cdx-button--size-large cdx-button--fake-button cdx-button--fake-button--enabled cdx-button--icon-only cdx-button--weight-quiet "> edit </a> <span id='ooui-php-414' class='ext-discussiontools-init-section-overflowMenuButton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-buttonWidget' data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonMenuSelectWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"ellipsis","data":{"itemConfigs":[{"id":"edit","data":{"id":"edit"},"icon":"edit","label":"Edit"}],"resourceLoaderModules":[]},"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-section-overflowMenuButton"]}'><a role='button' tabindex='0' rel='nofollow' class='oo-ui-buttonElement-button'></a><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata">Latest comment: <a href="#c-Capitals00-20241123032900-Yamla-20241109121400">23 hours ago</a>12 comments8 people in discussion</div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div><section class="mf-section-2 collapsible-block" id="mf-section-2"> <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Wikiuser1314">Wikiuser1314</a> is <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:CBAN" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:CBAN">banned by the community</a> under <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:3X" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:3X">WP:3X</a>. They were initially blocked as a sock of <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:WorldCreaterFighter">WorldCreaterFighter</a> who has a long-term abuse page, see <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Long-term_abuse/WorldCreaterFighter" title="Wikipedia:Long-term abuse/WorldCreaterFighter">Wikipedia:Long-term abuse/WorldCreaterFighter</a>. They claim to be unrelated, but admit a long string of sockpuppets. As a <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:CHECKUSER" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:CHECKUSER">WP:CHECKUSER</a>, I see no evidence of recent block evasion. I solicited feedback from other checkusers on the cu mailing list but did not get a response. --<a href="/wiki/User:Yamla" title="User:Yamla">Yamla</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Yamla" title="User talk:Yamla">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Yamla-20241111210800-Unban_request_for_Wikiuser1314" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:08, 11 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-1" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>Hello Wikipedia community! At first I want to apologize for my past mistakes. I want to face my past and work to regain the trust of the community. Quite some time has passed, and I fully understand my wrongdoings now. After waiting the mandatory six months since the block of this account, I sincerely ask for a <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:UNBAN" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:UNBAN">WP:UNBAN</a> process. – To better understand and summarize my past mistakes, I will try to exlpain how it started: my first account <a href="/wiki/User:Satoshi_Kondo" title="User:Satoshi Kondo">user:Satoshi Kondo</a> (no access anymore), which initially got blocked because I stupidly created two other accounts at that time <a href="/wiki/User:%EC%9D%BC%EC%84%B1%EA%B0%95" title="User:일성강">user:일성강</a> and <a href="/wiki/User:Kumasojin_%E7%86%8A%E8%A5%B2" title="User:Kumasojin 熊襲">user:Kumasojin 熊襲</a> simultaneously. I attribute these quite stupid actions to my then quite young age of 15 years old in 2016. After some time, those three accounts got correctly blocked as confirmed to each other, but later got merged into the "WorldCreatorFighter" sock-zoo, which now is confirmed to represent (at least) two distinct users (the other being <a href="/wiki/User:Vamlos" title="User:Vamlos">user:Vamlos</a>). I was however to dump and too impatient at that time to explain or wait and apply for a standard offer. As such, the misery started, paired with other rule violations and childish behavior on my side, such as being too impatient and too fixated on my personal views (regardless of if they were correct/sourced or not) and did aggressively try to implement them here. – My blockes were justified and I am ashamed of my past mistakes. Since late 2022, and with this account (Wikiuser1314), I learned a lot, not only here on Wikipedia, but also in real life. I improved myself, became more patient, more cooperative and appreciated to work together with other users. In short, I got older and learned from my past. For that, please also take a look at my talk page and edits of this account (Wikiuser1314). – I really want to constructively and positively edit and contribute to the Wikipedia project, together with fellow Wikipedians, and according to the rules. I do not want to run away anymore and hope to get a chance to prove myself. I am ready to fully cooperate with the Wikipedia community to regain trust. I am also ready to reveal my real identity to administrators and get in contact with them, to explain myself and for further details if it is necessary. Thanks. Sincerely – <a href="/wiki/User:Wikiuser1314" title="User:Wikiuser1314">Wikiuser1314</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Wikiuser1314#top" title="User talk:Wikiuser1314">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Wikiuser1314-20241104125600-Yamla-20241111210800" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">12:56, 4 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-2" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd></dl> I then asked, Please list all of the accounts you've used. A good place to start is <a href="/wiki/Category:Suspected_Wikipedia_sockpuppets_of_WorldCreaterFighter" title="Category:Suspected Wikipedia sockpuppets of WorldCreaterFighter">Category:Suspected Wikipedia sockpuppets of WorldCreaterFighter</a> and <a href="/wiki/Category:Wikipedia_sockpuppets_of_WorldCreaterFighter" title="Category:Wikipedia sockpuppets of WorldCreaterFighter">Category:Wikipedia sockpuppets of WorldCreaterFighter</a>. I'm primarily interested in accounts you've used in the past year that we haven't listed there and primarily interested in accounts you claim do not belong to you. --<a href="/wiki/User:Yamla" title="User:Yamla">Yamla</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Yamla" title="User talk:Yamla">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Yamla-20241109121400-Unban_request_for_Wikiuser1314" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">12:14, 9 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-3" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:Yamla" title="User:Yamla">Yamla</a>: Embarrassing for me, but here are the accounts I once used: <a href="/wiki/User:Banjardar" title="User:Banjardar">User:Banjardar</a>, <a href="/wiki/User:Bharat99x2" title="User:Bharat99x2">User:Bharat99x2</a>, <a href="/wiki/User:Kumasojin_%E7%86%8A%E8%A5%B2" title="User:Kumasojin 熊襲">User:Kumasojin 熊襲</a>, <a href="/wiki/User:Kush3897" title="User:Kush3897">User:Kush3897</a>, <a href="/wiki/User:Ogbuago" title="User:Ogbuago">User:Ogbuago</a>, <a href="/wiki/User:SapmiSamo" title="User:SapmiSamo">User:SapmiSamo</a>, <a href="/wiki/User:WhiteTeaWiki" title="User:WhiteTeaWiki">User:WhiteTeaWiki</a>, <a href="/wiki/User:X_Aterui_x" title="User:X Aterui x">User:X Aterui x</a>, <a href="/wiki/User:%EC%9D%BC%EC%84%B1%EA%B0%95" title="User:일성강">User:일성강</a>, <a href="/wiki/User:%E7%AA%81%E5%8E%A5_%E5%93%88%E8%90%A8%E5%85%8B%E6%97%8F" title="User:突厥哈萨克族">User:突厥哈萨克族</a>, <a href="/wiki/User:2001.4bc9.824.e0e4" title="User:2001.4bc9.824.e0e4">User:2001.4bc9.824.e0e4</a>, <a href="/wiki/User:AmurTiger18" title="User:AmurTiger18">User:AmurTiger18</a>, <a href="/wiki/User:AntiTuranism1908" title="User:AntiTuranism1908">User:AntiTuranism1908</a>, <a href="/wiki/User:Ape-huchi" title="User:Ape-huchi">User:Ape-huchi</a>, <a href="/wiki/User:Arario" title="User:Arario">User:Arario</a>, <a href="/wiki/User:Arkiat" title="User:Arkiat">User:Arkiat</a>, <a href="/wiki/User:AsadalEditor" title="User:AsadalEditor">User:AsadalEditor</a>, <a href="/wiki/User:AustronesianTaiwan" title="User:AustronesianTaiwan">User:AustronesianTaiwan</a>, <a href="/wiki/User:Azazmeh" title="User:Azazmeh">User:Azazmeh</a>, <a href="/wiki/User:Baikal13" title="User:Baikal13">User:Baikal13</a>, <a href="/wiki/User:BaiulyQz" title="User:BaiulyQz">User:BaiulyQz</a>, <a href="/wiki/User:Bayan_Khagan" title="User:Bayan Khagan">User:Bayan Khagan</a>, <a href="/wiki/User:Benjamin_Samasa" title="User:Benjamin Samasa">User:Benjamin Samasa</a>?, <a href="/wiki/User:Benji887" title="User:Benji887">User:Benji887</a>, <a href="/wiki/User:ChampaDroid" title="User:ChampaDroid">User:ChampaDroid</a>, <a href="/wiki/User:DeEnTranslator" title="User:DeEnTranslator">User:DeEnTranslator</a>?, <a href="/wiki/User:GanjDareh4" title="User:GanjDareh4">User:GanjDareh4</a>, <a href="/wiki/User:GoguryeoHistorian" title="User:GoguryeoHistorian">User:GoguryeoHistorian</a>, <a href="/wiki/User:Gyatso1" title="User:Gyatso1">User:Gyatso1</a>, <a href="/wiki/User:HainanTai" title="User:HainanTai">User:HainanTai</a>, <a href="/wiki/User:Heiwajima20Ip" title="User:Heiwajima20Ip">User:Heiwajima20Ip</a>, <a href="/wiki/User:HlaaluTW" title="User:HlaaluTW">User:HlaaluTW</a>, <a href="/wiki/User:Hmoob_Yao" title="User:Hmoob Yao">User:Hmoob Yao</a>, <a href="/wiki/User:J%C3%A4kke34" title="User:Jäkke34">User:Jäkke34</a>, <a href="/wiki/User:JihoHone" title="User:JihoHone">User:JihoHone</a>, <a href="/wiki/User:KalifFR" title="User:KalifFR">User:KalifFR</a>?, <a href="/wiki/User:Kang_Sung-Tae" title="User:Kang Sung-Tae">User:Kang Sung-Tae</a>, <a href="/wiki/User:KinhyaKing" title="User:KinhyaKing">User:KinhyaKing</a>, <a href="/wiki/User:KuroZetsu_oho" title="User:KuroZetsu oho">User:KuroZetsu oho</a>, <a href="/wiki/User:KwestaPC" title="User:KwestaPC">User:KwestaPC</a>, <a href="/wiki/User:Lankaman20" title="User:Lankaman20">User:Lankaman20</a>, <a href="/wiki/User:LenguaEditar" title="User:LenguaEditar">User:LenguaEditar</a>?, <a href="/wiki/User:Lord_Huynh" title="User:Lord Huynh">User:Lord Huynh</a>, <a href="/wiki/User:Magyarrider" title="User:Magyarrider">User:Magyarrider</a>, <a href="/wiki/User:Manasam98" title="User:Manasam98">User:Manasam98</a>, <a href="/wiki/User:Mandari9" title="User:Mandari9">User:Mandari9</a>, <a href="/wiki/User:Masamannamasam" title="User:Masamannamasam">User:Masamannamasam</a>, <a href="/wiki/User:MLx22" title="User:MLx22">User:MLx22</a>, <a href="/wiki/User:MomotaniSS" title="User:MomotaniSS">User:MomotaniSS</a>, <a href="/wiki/User:MomotaniYY" title="User:MomotaniYY">User:MomotaniYY</a>, <a href="/wiki/User:Nam_Vi%E1%BB%87t_18" title="User:Nam Việt 18">User:Nam Việt 18</a>, <a href="/wiki/User:OghurBushi" title="User:OghurBushi">User:OghurBushi</a>, <a href="/wiki/User:Quapaw" title="User:Quapaw">User:Quapaw</a>, <a href="/wiki/User:Rimisibaqwa" title="User:Rimisibaqwa">User:Rimisibaqwa</a>, <a href="/wiki/User:RobertoY20" title="User:RobertoY20">User:RobertoY20</a>, <a href="/wiki/User:Ruuchuu" title="User:Ruuchuu">User:Ruuchuu</a>, <a href="/wiki/User:Sakushain" title="User:Sakushain">User:Sakushain</a>, <a href="/wiki/User:Satoshi_Kondo" title="User:Satoshi Kondo">User:Satoshi Kondo</a>, <a href="/wiki/User:Saxhleel" title="User:Saxhleel">User:Saxhleel</a>, <a href="/wiki/User:Shatuo" title="User:Shatuo">User:Shatuo</a>, <a href="/wiki/User:ShiroEmishi" title="User:ShiroEmishi">User:ShiroEmishi</a>, <a href="/wiki/User:Skaalra" title="User:Skaalra">User:Skaalra</a>, <a href="/wiki/User:Takeshima42" title="User:Takeshima42">User:Takeshima42</a>, <a href="/wiki/User:TAMILinJAPAN" title="User:TAMILinJAPAN">User:TAMILinJAPAN</a>, <a href="/wiki/User:TamizhUser" title="User:TamizhUser">User:TamizhUser</a>, <a href="/wiki/User:Tiberiussan" title="User:Tiberiussan">User:Tiberiussan</a>, <a href="/wiki/User:Tomislav22" title="User:Tomislav22">User:Tomislav22</a>, <a href="/wiki/User:T%C3%BCrkSamurai" title="User:TürkSamurai">User:TürkSamurai</a>, <a href="/wiki/User:Turukkaean" title="User:Turukkaean">User:Turukkaean</a>, <a href="/wiki/User:Whhu22" title="User:Whhu22">User:Whhu22</a>, <a href="/wiki/User:WikiEdit2204" title="User:WikiEdit2204">User:WikiEdit2204</a>, <a href="/wiki/User:Wikiworkbot2.0" title="User:Wikiworkbot2.0">User:Wikiworkbot2.0</a>, and <a href="/wiki/User:YonaguniFan" title="User:YonaguniFan">User:YonaguniFan</a>.</dd> <dd>—</dd> <dd>The others in both lists are unrelated to me. (Not me:<a href="/wiki/User:WorldCreaterFighter" title="User:WorldCreaterFighter">User:WorldCreaterFighter</a>, <a href="/wiki/User:ConspiracyThinkerPeople" title="User:ConspiracyThinkerPeople">User:ConspiracyThinkerPeople</a>, <a href="/wiki/User:Dddcg" title="User:Dddcg">User:Dddcg</a>, <a href="/wiki/User:DerekHistorian" title="User:DerekHistorian">User:DerekHistorian</a>, <a href="/wiki/User:DragoniteLeopard" title="User:DragoniteLeopard">User:DragoniteLeopard</a>, <a href="/wiki/User:Jinjin555" title="User:Jinjin555">User:Jinjin555</a>, <a href="/wiki/User:KnowledgeAndPeace" title="User:KnowledgeAndPeace">User:KnowledgeAndPeace</a>, <a href="/wiki/User:Lynch_Kevin_de_Le%C3%B3n" title="User:Lynch Kevin de León">User:Lynch Kevin de León</a>, <a href="/wiki/User:TechnichalProblems" title="User:TechnichalProblems">User:TechnichalProblems</a>, <a href="/wiki/User:WorkingCatDog123" title="User:WorkingCatDog123">User:WorkingCatDog123</a>, <a href="/wiki/User:Adygeheipeople" title="User:Adygeheipeople">User:Adygeheipeople</a>, <a href="/wiki/User:BoxRec9" title="User:BoxRec9">User:BoxRec9</a>, <a href="/wiki/User:CantoneseMaster" title="User:CantoneseMaster">User:CantoneseMaster</a>, <a href="/wiki/User:ChowChowWong" title="User:ChowChowWong">User:ChowChowWong</a>, <a href="/wiki/User:Dan_Capoccia" title="User:Dan Capoccia">User:Dan Capoccia</a>, <a href="/wiki/User:Deccodabo" title="User:Deccodabo">User:Deccodabo</a>, <a href="/wiki/User:DrKoraKora" title="User:DrKoraKora">User:DrKoraKora</a>, <a href="/wiki/User:Gailververgailqqq" title="User:Gailververgailqqq">User:Gailververgailqqq</a>, <a href="/wiki/User:HeichtiSmech" title="User:HeichtiSmech">User:HeichtiSmech</a>, <a href="/wiki/User:InternationalAffairs3" title="User:InternationalAffairs3">User:InternationalAffairs3</a>, <a href="/wiki/User:LemanderOrange" title="User:LemanderOrange">User:LemanderOrange</a>, <a href="/wiki/User:MasterChai" title="User:MasterChai">User:MasterChai</a>, <a href="/wiki/User:Namela123" title="User:Namela123">User:Namela123</a>, <a href="/wiki/User:OrenburgNative" title="User:OrenburgNative">User:OrenburgNative</a>, <a href="/wiki/User:OttoKhan" title="User:OttoKhan">User:OttoKhan</a>, <a href="/wiki/User:PeopleTaking11" title="User:PeopleTaking11">User:PeopleTaking11</a>, <a href="/wiki/User:Pinoy123xaaa" title="User:Pinoy123xaaa">User:Pinoy123xaaa</a>, <a href="/wiki/User:Robela2" title="User:Robela2">User:Robela2</a>, <a href="/wiki/User:Spiritclaymore" title="User:Spiritclaymore">User:Spiritclaymore</a>, <a href="/wiki/User:SushigirlJessice" title="User:SushigirlJessice">User:SushigirlJessice</a>, <a href="/wiki/User:TelephoneBaby" title="User:TelephoneBaby">User:TelephoneBaby</a>, <a href="/wiki/User:ToRespond" title="User:ToRespond">User:ToRespond</a>, <a href="/wiki/User:TurkicDelight" title="User:TurkicDelight">User:TurkicDelight</a>, <a href="/wiki/User:Verakhu" title="User:Verakhu">User:Verakhu</a>, <a href="/wiki/User:WayneMacleod1" title="User:WayneMacleod1">User:WayneMacleod1</a>, and <a href="/wiki/User:WuyueDNApeople" title="User:WuyueDNApeople">User:WuyueDNApeople</a>. )</dd> <dd>—</dd> <dd>Accounts once associated with me, but not blocked/listed here should be these: <a href="/wiki/User:Orange172212" title="User:Orange172212">User:Orange172212</a>, <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Noble4c2&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Noble4c2 (page does not exist)">User:Noble4c2</a>, and <a href="/wiki/User:Krause96" title="User:Krause96">User:Krause96</a>. – <a href="/wiki/User:Wikiuser1314" title="User:Wikiuser1314">Wikiuser1314</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Wikiuser1314#top" title="User talk:Wikiuser1314">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Wikiuser1314-20241109164200-Yamla-20241109121400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:42, 9 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-4" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd></dl> <ul><li>If this user is really distinct from the master of the WorldCreaterFighter sockfarm, we couldn't distinguish them by behaviour nor by technical data, and we have a lot of those data points. At some point when we get into the hundreds of accounts that both look and act the same, we stop bothering to carefully distinguish one account from another, because they've collectively been so disruptive over such a long period of time that there's practically zero chance of them ever being unblocked, and each new one is just adding to the garbage heap. So maybe Wikiuser1234 is a different person, maybe they're not; to me it's irrelevant, and <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Requests_for_arbitration/Regarding_Ted_Kennedy#Sockpuppets" title="Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Regarding Ted Kennedy">policy supports this irrelevancy</a>. This case goes back over a decade, has been persistent throughout that time, and involves pushing fringe theories in a sensitive subject. I'm inclined to say never here, but I'd like to hear from people who edit that topic and have had to put up with this for a decade. <a href="/wiki/User:Ivanvector" title="User:Ivanvector">Ivanvector</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Ivanvector" title="User talk:Ivanvector">Talk</a>/<a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Ivanvector" title="Special:Contributions/Ivanvector">Edits</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Ivanvector-20241112191400-Yamla-20241109121400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:14, 12 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-5" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>Do we know when the most recent sock was? There's too many here for me to hunt-and-peck looking for it. <a href="/wiki/User:Just_Step_Sideways" title="User:Just Step Sideways">Just Step Sideways</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Just_Step_Sideways" title="User talk:Just Step Sideways">from this world ..... today</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Just_Step_Sideways-20241112211600-Ivanvector-20241112191400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:16, 12 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-6" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>Based on manual investigation (!!!) of the self-declared socks, <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Wikiuser1314">Wikiuser1314</a> last edited articles on 2024-04-22. Prior to that account, <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Krause96">Krause96</a> on 2023-08-02. --<a href="/wiki/User:Yamla" title="User:Yamla">Yamla</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Yamla" title="User talk:Yamla">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Yamla-20241112212500-Just_Step_Sideways-20241112211600" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:25, 12 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-7" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd></dl></dd></dl></li></ul> <ul><li>Wikiuser1314: what do you plan to edit if unblocked? Articles, topic areas, etc... what are your interests? <a href="/wiki/User:ProcrastinatingReader" title="User:ProcrastinatingReader">ProcrastinatingReader</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:ProcrastinatingReader" title="User talk:ProcrastinatingReader">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-ProcrastinatingReader-20241112203300-Yamla-20241109121400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:33, 12 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-8" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>The user is blocked and thus unable to respond, but <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Wikiuser1314" title="Special:Contributions/Wikiuser1314">Special:Contributions/Wikiuser1314</a> gives us a pretty good idea of their interests. Once unblocked, their immediate plans are probably to finish off the draft <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Wikiuser1314/sandbox">in their sandbox</a> that they were actively working on when their past caught up with them. <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/78.28.44.127" title="Special:Contributions/78.28.44.127">78.28.44.127</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:78.28.44.127" title="User talk:78.28.44.127">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-78.28.44.127-20241120234600-ProcrastinatingReader-20241112203300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:46, 20 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-9" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd></dl></li> <li>Support There's every indication that the user is ready to be reintegrated into the Wikipedia community. They waited out the required six months patiently, made a perfectly reasonable unban request, and came clean about their past accounts. Their most recent account, <a href="/wiki/User:Wikiuser1314" title="User:Wikiuser1314">User:Wikiuser1314</a>, made over 1500 edits over a period of 1.5 years without causing any disruption. I don't see any value in preventing them from continuing to positively contribute to the project. <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/78.28.44.127" title="Special:Contributions/78.28.44.127">78.28.44.127</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:78.28.44.127" title="User talk:78.28.44.127">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-78.28.44.127-20241113121500-Yamla-20241109121400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">12:15, 13 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-10" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></li> <li>Support. A solid six-month wait and a strong value to future constructive contributions seem that the user will not repeat the same mistake he did before. Welcome back. The community might trust you again. <a href="/wiki/User:Ahri_Boy" title="User:Ahri Boy">Ahri Boy</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Ahri_Boy" title="User talk:Ahri Boy">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Ahri_Boy-20241114053900-Yamla-20241109121400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">05:39, 14 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-11" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></li> <li>Oppose - Socked for too long. Let him prove he can productively edit any sister wiki before requesting unblock here again. <a href="/wiki/User:Capitals00" class="mw-redirect" title="User:Capitals00">Capitals00</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Capitals00" title="User talk:Capitals00">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Capitals00-20241123032900-Yamla-20241109121400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">03:29, 23 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-12" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></li></ul> </section><div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section section-heading" onclick="mfTempOpenSection(3)"><h2 id="Closure_request_for_Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard/Archive366#IBAN_appeal" data-mw-thread-id="h-Closure_request_for_Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard/Archive366#IBAN_appeal-20241113222400">Closure request for <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Archive366#IBAN_appeal" title="Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Archive366">Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Archive366#IBAN appeal</a></h2> <a role="button" href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard&action=edit&section=3" title="Edit section: Closure request for Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Archive366#IBAN appeal" class="cdx-button cdx-button--size-large cdx-button--fake-button cdx-button--fake-button--enabled cdx-button--icon-only cdx-button--weight-quiet "> edit </a> <span id='ooui-php-415' class='ext-discussiontools-init-section-overflowMenuButton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-buttonWidget' data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonMenuSelectWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"ellipsis","data":{"itemConfigs":[{"id":"edit","data":{"id":"edit"},"icon":"edit","label":"Edit"}],"resourceLoaderModules":[]},"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-section-overflowMenuButton"]}'><a role='button' tabindex='0' rel='nofollow' class='oo-ui-buttonElement-button'></a><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata">Latest comment: <a href="#c-78.28.44.127-20241122235500-Compassionate727-20241122210800">1 day ago</a>22 comments9 people in discussion</div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div><section class="mf-section-3 collapsible-block" id="mf-section-3"> Would an administrator please close <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Archive366#IBAN_appeal" title="Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Archive366">Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Archive366#IBAN appeal</a>? I am not brave enough to test whether it is socially acceptable yet for non-admins to close discussions involving bans. —<a href="/wiki/User:Compassionate727" title="User:Compassionate727">Compassionate727</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Compassionate727" title="User talk:Compassionate727">T</a>·<a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Compassionate727" title="Special:Contributions/Compassionate727">C</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Compassionate727-20241113222400-Closure_request_for_Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard/Archive366#IBAN_appeal" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:24, 13 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-13" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>There is a <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:RFA" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:RFA">secret third option</a>, if you are feeling brave.— <a href="/wiki/User:Red-tailed_hawk" title="User:Red-tailed hawk">Red-tailed hawk</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Red-tailed_hawk" title="User talk:Red-tailed hawk">(nest)</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Red-tailed_hawk-20241113224400-Compassionate727-20241113222400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:44, 13 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-14" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd><a href="/wiki/User:Compassionate727" title="User:Compassionate727">Compassionate727</a>, complaints that have been archived are not edited so closing an archived discussion would not be appropriate because, basically, it would be hidden from view and, as I said, archives are not edited unless it is to revert vandalism to them.</dd> <dd>I would consider "unarchiving" this discussion and reposting the case here. But, regarding your main question, I don't think it's appropriate for a non-admin to close a discussion about imposing or lifting a ban or block although I'd like to hear from other admins here about this. <a href="/wiki/User:Liz" title="User:Liz">Liz</a> <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Liz" title="Special:Contributions/Liz">Read!</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Liz" title="User talk:Liz">Talk!</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Liz-20241114005100-Red-tailed_hawk-20241113224400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:51, 14 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-15" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>At one point it was unarchived, but then someone commented at CR that this was unnecessary, so nothing was done when it was automatically archived again. In my observation, editors split about 50-50 on whether it is okay to close an archived discussion without first unarchiving it (usually, a courtesy note is left on the active page when leaving it archived). At any rate, I don't care about the implementation details, as long as someone closes it. —<a href="/wiki/User:Compassionate727" title="User:Compassionate727">Compassionate727</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Compassionate727" title="User talk:Compassionate727">T</a>·<a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Compassionate727" title="Special:Contributions/Compassionate727">C</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Compassionate727-20241114005700-Liz-20241114005100" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:57, 14 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-16" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>Well, if this query is not about a desired discussion outcome and more about your need for closure, then I think this request will not solicit any response from admins who review this noticeboard. Discussions on AN and ANI often get archived without any closure or action being taken. It's something you'll need to accept. <a href="/wiki/User:Liz" title="User:Liz">Liz</a> <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Liz" title="Special:Contributions/Liz">Read!</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Liz" title="User talk:Liz">Talk!</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Liz-20241114032400-Compassionate727-20241114005700" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">03:24, 14 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-17" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>With five people supporting an unban vs. two opposing, one of two things should happen: the ban be lifted, or an explanation of why the opposing side's arguments were stronger be given. I don't think it's fair to the appellant that a consensus to unban seemingly have formed, yet the ban never formally be lifted because no admin could be bothered to take responsibility for it. That is why I posted here. —<a href="/wiki/User:Compassionate727" title="User:Compassionate727">Compassionate727</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Compassionate727" title="User talk:Compassionate727">T</a>·<a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Compassionate727" title="Special:Contributions/Compassionate727">C</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Compassionate727-20241114170300-Liz-20241114032400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:03, 14 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-18" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd> <dd><style data-mw-deduplicate="TemplateStyles:r1248585704">@media screen{html.skin-theme-clientpref-night .mw-parser-output .inline-quote-talk{color:#00B785}}@media screen and (prefers-color-scheme:dark){html.skin-theme-clientpref-os .mw-parser-output .inline-quote-talk{color:#00B785}}.mw-parser-output .inline-quote-talk{font-family:Georgia,"DejaVu Serif",serif;color:#008560;quotes:none}.mw-parser-output .inline-quote-talk-italic{font-family:inherit;font-style:italic}.mw-parser-output .inline-quote-talk-marks{quotes:"\"""\""}</style><q class="inline-quote-talk">archives are not edited unless it is to revert vandalism to them.</q> Based on what happened at <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Reliable_sources/Noticeboard/Archive_444" title="Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Noticeboard/Archive 444">Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Noticeboard/Archive 444</a>, I would say that usually they are not edited unless it is for vandalism. Rare for discussions to be closed after being archived, but it happens. --<a href="/wiki/User:Super_Goku_V" title="User:Super Goku V">Super Goku V</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Super_Goku_V" title="User talk:Super Goku V">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Super_Goku_V-20241114040500-Liz-20241114005100" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">04:05, 14 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-19" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd><a href="/wiki/User:Super_Goku_V" title="User:Super Goku V">Super Goku V</a>, I find this surprising. Do any examples come to mind right now? <a href="/wiki/User:Liz" title="User:Liz">Liz</a> <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Liz" title="Special:Contributions/Liz">Read!</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Liz" title="User talk:Liz">Talk!</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Liz-20241114043100-Super_Goku_V-20241114040500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">04:31, 14 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-20" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>Other examples, not immediately. But I should be able to get a list of some discussions <s>in the next 30-ish minutes</s>. (Going to go digging at <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Closure_requests" title="Wikipedia:Closure requests">Wikipedia:Closure requests</a>.) --<a href="/wiki/User:Super_Goku_V" title="User:Super Goku V">Super Goku V</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Super_Goku_V" title="User talk:Super Goku V">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Super_Goku_V-20241114043900-Liz-20241114043100" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">04:39, 14 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-21" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>Thanks. Consider this detective work, not homework. <a href="/wiki/User:Liz" title="User:Liz">Liz</a> <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Liz" title="Special:Contributions/Liz">Read!</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Liz" title="User talk:Liz">Talk!</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Liz-20241114053500-Super_Goku_V-20241114043900" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">05:35, 14 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-22" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>Gotcha. Since this is would likely take half a day to type up, I will just list the results from Archive 1 and Archive 39 for Closure requests and some additional notes for the others typed up afterwards. (I was using the search results, hence the jump between multiple archives in the notes.) Collapsed for convenience. --<a href="/wiki/User:Super_Goku_V" title="User:Super Goku V">Super Goku V</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Super_Goku_V" title="User talk:Super Goku V">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Super_Goku_V-20241114062300-Liz-20241114053500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">06:23, 14 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-23" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <style data-mw-deduplicate="TemplateStyles:r1256386598">.mw-parser-output .cot-header-mainspace{background:#F0F2F5;color:inherit}.mw-parser-output .cot-header-other{background:#CCFFCC;color:inherit}@media screen{html.skin-theme-clientpref-night .mw-parser-output .cot-header-mainspace{background:#14181F;color:inherit}html.skin-theme-clientpref-night .mw-parser-output .cot-header-other{background:#003500;color:inherit}}@media screen and (prefers-color-scheme:dark){html.skin-theme-clientpref-os .mw-parser-output .cot-header-mainspace{background:#14181F;color:inherit}html.skin-theme-clientpref-os .mw-parser-output .cot-header-other{background:#003500;color:inherit}}</style> <div style="margin-left:0"> <table class="mw-collapsible mw-archivedtalk mw-collapsed" style="color:inherit; background: transparent; text-align: left; border: 1px solid Silver; margin: 0.2em auto auto; width:100%; clear: both; padding: 1px;"> <tbody><tr> <th class="cot-header-other" style="; font-size:87%; padding:0.2em 0.3em; text-align:center;"><div style="font-size:115%;margin:0 4em">Search results. --<a href="/wiki/User:Super_Goku_V" title="User:Super Goku V">Super Goku V</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Super_Goku_V" title="User talk:Super Goku V">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Super_Goku_V-20241114062300-Closure_request_for_Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard/Archive366#IBAN_appeal" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">06:23, 14 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-24" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></div> </th></tr> <tr> <td style="color:inherit; border: solid 1px Silver; padding: 0.6em; background: var(--background-color-base, #fff);"> <ol><li><a href="/wiki/Special:Diff/460424723" title="Special:Diff/460424723">Village pump (proposals)/Archive 78</a> (<a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Closure_requests/Archive_1#October_2011" title="Wikipedia:Closure requests/Archive 1">Request</a>)</li> <li><a href="/wiki/Special:Diff/483347597" title="Special:Diff/483347597">Taiwan/Archive 20</a>[A] (<a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Closure_requests/Archive_1#Talk:Taiwan#Requested_Move_(February_2012)" title="Wikipedia:Closure requests/Archive 1">Request</a>)</li> <li><a href="/wiki/Special:Diff/483601639" title="Special:Diff/483601639">Notability (people)/Archive 2012</a> (<a href="/wiki/Special:Diff/483686214" title="Special:Diff/483686214">Additional edit</a>; <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Closure_requests/Archive_1#Wikipedia_talk:Notability_(people)#Improving_PORNBIO" title="Wikipedia:Closure requests/Archive 1">Request</a>)</li> <li><a href="/wiki/Special:Diff/483617804" title="Special:Diff/483617804">Pakistan/Archive 14</a> (<a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Closure_requests/Archive_1#Talk:Pakistan#Request_for_comment" title="Wikipedia:Closure requests/Archive 1">Request</a>)</li> <li><a href="/wiki/Special:Diff/485736745" title="Special:Diff/485736745">Talk:Circumcision/Archive 70</a> (<a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Closure_requests/Archive_1#Talk:Circumcision#RfC:_how_should_the_lead_summarise_positions_of_medical_associations?" title="Wikipedia:Closure requests/Archive 1">Request</a>)</li> <li><a href="/wiki/Special:Diff/1250934609" title="Special:Diff/1250934609">Reliable sources/Noticeboard/Archive 444</a>[B] (<a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Closure_requests/Archive_39#Wikipedia:Reliable_sources/Noticeboard/Archive_444#RFC:_The_Telegraph_on_trans_issues" title="Wikipedia:Closure requests/Archive 39">Request</a>)</li> <li><a href="/wiki/Special:Diff/1253281055" title="Special:Diff/1253281055">Administrators' noticeboard/IncidentArchive1169</a>(-1170?)[C] (<a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Closure_requests/Archive_39#Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard/IncidentArchive1169#Proposed_topic_ban_on_Adamantine123_from_caste_topics" title="Wikipedia:Closure requests/Archive 39">Request</a>)</li></ol> Other results: <ul><li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Closure_requests/Archive_1#Wikipedia_talk:Non-free_content/Archive_52/Archives/_42#RFC:_Clarifying_policy_on_pictures_of_deceased_persons" title="Wikipedia:Closure requests/Archive 1">Request refers to an archive (of a archive?)</a>, but the closure <a href="/wiki/Special:Diff/465621660" title="Special:Diff/465621660">does not appear to have been done within an archive.</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Closure_requests/Archive_1#talk:Azad_Kashmir/Archives/2012/June#Merger_proposal" title="Wikipedia:Closure requests/Archive 1">Request refers to an archive</a>, but the closure <a href="/wiki/Special:Diff/469618907" title="Special:Diff/469618907">does not appear to have been done within an archive.</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Closure_requests/Archive_1#Admins_needed_at_WT:NOT" title="Wikipedia:Closure requests/Archive 1">Later comments request multiple closures within archives</a>, but it was declined.</li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Closure_requests/Archive_39#Wikipedia:Reliable_sources/Noticeboard/Archive_453#RFC_on_The_South_African" title="Wikipedia:Closure requests/Archive 39">Request refers to an archive</a>, but it was declined.</li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Closure_requests/Archive_39#Wikipedia:Village_pump_(policy)/Archive_194#Notifying_Wikiprojects_and_WP:CANVASS" title="Wikipedia:Closure requests/Archive 39">Request refers to an archive</a>, but it was not done.</li></ul> Notes: <ul><li>[A] Taiwan/Archive 20 is abnormal. Between 45 and 50 edits were made in March 2012 with the majority involving closing discussion.</li> <li>[B] Specifically un-archived when closed.</li> <li>[C] Discussion is abnormal. <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/IncidentArchive1169" title="Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/IncidentArchive1169">Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/IncidentArchive1169</a> has a version with the sub-topic closed and the original discussion still open when archived. <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/IncidentArchive1170" title="Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/IncidentArchive1170">Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/IncidentArchive1170</a> has a version with the sub-topic never closed and the original discussion closed. Unusual duplicate.</li></ul> Additional details: <ul><li>Archive 4: 8 requests with all being done.</li> <li>Archive 5: 6 requests with 5 done and 1 modified.</li> <li>Archive 14: 17 requests.</li> <li>Archive 19: 28 or so requests. Multiple done and a few not done.</li> <li>Archive 22: 58 or 59 requests. Multiple done, few already done, at least 1 not done.</li> <li>Archive 25: 20 requests.</li> <li>Archive 30: 30 requests.</li> <li>Total requests from Archives 1, 4, 5, 14, 19, 22, 25, and 30: 179 or 180.</li></ul> </td></tr></tbody></table></div> <dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd>I'm not sure of how exactly to interpret this information but I appreciate your efforts and I think some of our data-loving administrators will find it interesting, too. <a href="/wiki/User:Liz" title="User:Liz">Liz</a> <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Liz" title="Special:Contributions/Liz">Read!</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Liz" title="User talk:Liz">Talk!</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Liz-20241114065000-Super_Goku_V-20241114062300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">06:50, 14 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-25" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>Archive 444 was the first example mention, but that was a bit of an exception. RSN regularly grows to an unmanageable size, so restoring a near half megabytes discussion would have (and did) make the page semi-broken. It shouldn't be taken as any kind of precedent. Also notices where posted on RSN that the close(s) had taken place. -- LCU <a href="/wiki/User:ActivelyDisinterested" title="User:ActivelyDisinterested">ActivelyDisinterested</a> «<a href="/wiki/User_talk:ActivelyDisinterested" title="User talk:ActivelyDisinterested">@</a>» °<a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/ActivelyDisinterested" title="Special:Contributions/ActivelyDisinterested">∆t</a>° <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-ActivelyDisinterested-20241114123100-Liz-20241114065000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">12:31, 14 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-26" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>But at the same time, there are closes that occur after a discussion has found itself archived for one reason or another. <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Closure_requests/Archive_22" title="Wikipedia:Closure requests/Archive 22">Wikipedia:Closure requests/Archive 22</a> is the best example that I know of with over 50 requests. --<a href="/wiki/User:Super_Goku_V" title="User:Super Goku V">Super Goku V</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Super_Goku_V" title="User talk:Super Goku V">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Super_Goku_V-20241114233500-ActivelyDisinterested-20241114123100" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:35, 14 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-27" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd> <dd><noscript><img alt="👍" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/68/Wikipedia_like_SVG.svg/25px-Wikipedia_like_SVG.svg.png" decoding="async" width="25" height="26" class="mw-file-element" data-file-width="180" data-file-height="185"></noscript><span class="lazy-image-placeholder" style="width: 25px;height: 26px;" data-src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/68/Wikipedia_like_SVG.svg/25px-Wikipedia_like_SVG.svg.png" data-alt="👍" data-width="25" data-height="26" data-srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/68/Wikipedia_like_SVG.svg/38px-Wikipedia_like_SVG.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/68/Wikipedia_like_SVG.svg/50px-Wikipedia_like_SVG.svg.png 2x" data-class="mw-file-element">  Like <a href="/wiki/User:Queen_of_Hearts_mobile" title="User:Queen of Hearts mobile">charlotte</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Queen_of_Hearts_mobile" class="mw-redirect" title="User talk:Queen of Hearts mobile">👸♥📱</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Queen_of_Hearts_mobile-20241116071300-Liz-20241114065000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">07:13, 16 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-28" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd></dl></dd></dl> <ul><li>There's a consensus to vacate the sanction, but the other side of the IBAN opposes the idea. What's the play here other than to quietly allow status quo to remain undisturbed? I'd argue that it would be reckless to close that discussion. And as for closing archived threads, I've always felt that only archived threads should be closed since their archival indicates nobody had anything more to say meaning they're actually ready to be closed. <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/78.28.44.127" title="Special:Contributions/78.28.44.127">78.28.44.127</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:78.28.44.127" title="User talk:78.28.44.127">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-78.28.44.127-20241115002200-Super_Goku_V-20241114062300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:22, 15 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-29" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>That would just allow parties to drag the discussion on indefinitely, avoiding a result. — <a href="/wiki/User:HandThatFeeds" title="User:HandThatFeeds">The Hand That Feeds You</a>:<a href="/wiki/User_talk:HandThatFeeds" title="User talk:HandThatFeeds">Bite</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-HandThatFeeds-20241116190200-78.28.44.127-20241115002200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:02, 16 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-30" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>I agree. While it is important to listen carefully to the other party's concerns, I think that properly stops short of giving them a veto. —<a href="/wiki/User:Compassionate727" title="User:Compassionate727">Compassionate727</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Compassionate727" title="User talk:Compassionate727">T</a>·<a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Compassionate727" title="Special:Contributions/Compassionate727">C</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Compassionate727-20241117190900-HandThatFeeds-20241116190200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:09, 17 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-31" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd></dl></dd></dl></li> <li>(Non-administrator comment) I'd characterise the participation in (and material content of) the archived thread as sufficient to warrant a formal closure, and the byte weight of the thread as insufficient to disrupt this page. Anyone feel like unarchiving and closing? We've got like twelve new admins, right? <a href="/wiki/User:Folly_Mox" title="User:Folly Mox">Folly Mox</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Folly_Mox" title="User talk:Folly Mox">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Folly_Mox-20241121132700-Super_Goku_V-20241114062300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">13:27, 21 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-32" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>I don't wish to be cynical, but my observation is that administrators tend to be risk-averse and reluctant to make difficult closes, which I believe is because risk aversion is what enables them to pass RfA in the first place. —<a href="/wiki/User:Compassionate727" title="User:Compassionate727">Compassionate727</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Compassionate727" title="User talk:Compassionate727">T</a>·<a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Compassionate727" title="Special:Contributions/Compassionate727">C</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Compassionate727-20241122210800-Folly_Mox-20241121132700" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:08, 22 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-33" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>Where you see risk aversion, I see prudence. It's counter-intuitive to lift a two-way IBAN when one of the parties is explicitly against it; I'd go so far as to say that it would effectively invite the opposing party to subtly annoy the other until they request its reinstatement. I don't know if <a href="/wiki/User:MaranoFan" title="User:MaranoFan">User:MaranoFan</a> would accept such an invitation, but I'd certainly find it more than a little tempting. <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/78.28.44.127" title="Special:Contributions/78.28.44.127">78.28.44.127</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:78.28.44.127" title="User talk:78.28.44.127">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-78.28.44.127-20241122235500-Compassionate727-20241122210800" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:55, 22 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-34" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd></dl></dd></dl></li></ul> </section><div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section section-heading" onclick="mfTempOpenSection(4)"><h2 id="Seeking_opinions:_protection_of_the_help_desk_and_teahouse" data-mw-thread-id="h-Seeking_opinions:_protection_of_the_help_desk_and_teahouse-20241114144200">Seeking opinions: protection of the help desk and teahouse</h2> <a role="button" href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard&action=edit&section=4" title="Edit section: Seeking opinions: protection of the help desk and teahouse" class="cdx-button cdx-button--size-large cdx-button--fake-button cdx-button--fake-button--enabled cdx-button--icon-only cdx-button--weight-quiet "> edit </a> <span id='ooui-php-416' class='ext-discussiontools-init-section-overflowMenuButton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-buttonWidget' data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonMenuSelectWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"ellipsis","data":{"itemConfigs":[{"id":"edit","data":{"id":"edit"},"icon":"edit","label":"Edit"}],"resourceLoaderModules":[]},"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-section-overflowMenuButton"]}'><a role='button' tabindex='0' rel='nofollow' class='oo-ui-buttonElement-button'></a><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata">Latest comment: <a href="#c-Remsense-20241121042400-Voorts-20241121041900">2 days ago</a>39 comments20 people in discussion</div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div><section class="mf-section-4 collapsible-block" id="mf-section-4"> Most of you have probably seen threads here or on the incidents board about MidAtlanticBaby (MAB for short), a long-term attention troll who targets the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:HELPDESK" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:HELPDESK">help desk</a> and <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:TEAHOUSE" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:TEAHOUSE">teahouse</a>. They're the one that rapidly cycles through open proxies to repost their whine about being banned everywhere and blocked on IRC and not getting responses when they email the Foundation. They're banned from all those channels because any attempt to communicate with them is met with spamming death threats to the user, <a class="external text" href="https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Drmies&diff=prev&oldid=885194403">like this</a>. Don't try to talk to them, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:RBI" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:RBI">WP:RBI</a> is the only appropriate response. For the past couple weeks they've been spamming those two new user pages. Look through the history and you'll see many instances of an IP posting a message in an alternate unicode font, being reverted and blocked, and a new IP restoring the message within minutes. This can go on for hours, and only stops if the page is protected, which of course means that legitimate new users also can't post to those pages. Earlier in the week I set both pages to pending changes, thinking that this would allow new users to post through PC moderation but also starve MAB of the attention they crave. It seems to be working - they are active but have not tried to post on those pages - but at the same time there have not been many legitimate posts from anonymous users hitting the moderation queue either. <a href="/wiki/User:Pigsonthewing" title="User:Pigsonthewing">Pigsonthewing</a> asked on the Teahouse talk page to remove the protection, and other users have suggested that we should just let MAB run amok since someone has to revert them anyway even if their edits are paused in the PC queue. I'm on the fence myself if the protection is net positive. I'd like to hear what other users think. <a href="/wiki/User:Ivanvector" title="User:Ivanvector">Ivanvector</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Ivanvector" title="User talk:Ivanvector">Talk</a>/<a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Ivanvector" title="Special:Contributions/Ivanvector">Edits</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Ivanvector-20241114144200-Seeking_opinions:_protection_of_the_help_desk_and_teahouse" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">14:42, 14 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-35" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>I was actually just combing through the logs to look at who implemented pending changes, to start a discussion with them. I don't think pending changes really makes sense in this specific circumstance, since MAB's ostensible goal is to harass specific editors, and logged-in editors can see their posts through PC protection regardless of whether those posts have been approved or not, so PC doesn't really do anything to protect MAB's main targets. <a href="/wiki/User:Writ_Keeper" title="User:Writ Keeper">Writ Keeper</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Writ_Keeper" title="User talk:Writ Keeper">⚇</a><a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Writ_Keeper" title="Special:Contributions/Writ Keeper">♔</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Writ_Keeper-20241114144800-Ivanvector-20241114144200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">14:48, 14 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-36" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd></dl> <ul><li>I think admins should be free tho deal with MAB as they see fit: short protections, blocks, and why not pending changes protection? There is no ideal solution, and being flexible in responses is a way to go imho. My take on pending changes has always been that it takes out the "immediate reward" part of trolling...I actually let the pending changes review lag for some minutes before reverting; some people have short attention spans. Anyway: pending changes is another way to deal with him, I would just shorten the time of protection. <a href="/wiki/User:Lectonar" title="User:Lectonar">Lectonar</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Lectonar" title="User talk:Lectonar">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Lectonar-20241114145700-Ivanvector-20241114144200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">14:57, 14 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-37" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>To be clear, I'm not opposed in principle to PC protection being used for this purpose (and certainly I don't think there was anything untoward with Ivanvector's use of it), I'm just unsure of the efficacy. <a href="/wiki/User:Writ_Keeper" title="User:Writ Keeper">Writ Keeper</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Writ_Keeper" title="User talk:Writ Keeper">⚇</a><a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Writ_Keeper" title="Special:Contributions/Writ Keeper">♔</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Writ_Keeper-20241114150800-Lectonar-20241114145700" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:08, 14 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-38" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>I didn't take it as being against pending-changes protection in principle; I just think that there's no right way to go about it, but also no wrong way. And as the WMF isn't moving, we are stuck with the instruments we have. <a href="/wiki/User:Lectonar" title="User:Lectonar">Lectonar</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Lectonar" title="User talk:Lectonar">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Lectonar-20241114151300-Writ_Keeper-20241114150800" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:13, 14 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-39" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd></dl></dd></dl></li> <li>(<a href="/wiki/Help:Edit_conflict" title="Help:Edit conflict">edit conflict</a>) As one of MAB's favorites, I understand the frustration in dealing with him. (Look at the > 100,000 byte edits on my talk page for examples.) I am pleased that he's found other ways to express himself while being saddened that others have to clean up his messes. What worked on my talk page was very brief semi protection combined with RBI and proxy blocks. Wish I had something better to offer. <a href="/wiki/User:Deepfriedokra" title="User:Deepfriedokra">-- Deepfriedokra</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Deepfriedokra" title="User talk:Deepfriedokra">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Deepfriedokra-20241114150100-Ivanvector-20241114144200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:01, 14 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-40" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></li></ul> <dl><dd>I'm more or less in agreement with Writ Keeper. I don't want to go into too many details about how I normally try and deal with them, and unfortunately there's very limited ways to get admin coordination on the response.</dd> <dd>I'm more concerned that this harassment can keep up for months and there's no support from WMF to get the lists of residential proxies they're using, e.g. vpngate and massblock them. That shouldn't be foisted onto individual communities and bot operators. There are other LTAs that use similar methods to harass people, including non-editors, and we really need to be able to shut that down. <a href="/wiki/User:ScottishFinnishRadish" title="User:ScottishFinnishRadish">ScottishFinnishRadish</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:ScottishFinnishRadish" title="User talk:ScottishFinnishRadish">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-ScottishFinnishRadish-20241114145800-Ivanvector-20241114144200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">14:58, 14 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-41" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>Amen, brother. Amen. <a href="/wiki/User:Deepfriedokra" title="User:Deepfriedokra">-- Deepfriedokra</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Deepfriedokra" title="User talk:Deepfriedokra">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Deepfriedokra-20241114150200-ScottishFinnishRadish-20241114145800" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:02, 14 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-42" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>I echo ScottishFinnishRadish's point that we need more support to deal with long-term abuse like this. It's time-consuming and exhausting for admins to handle, and this is clearly MAB's goal. Well, that and to normalise death threats. MAB has kept this up for literally months, if (perhaps) not years. And admins shouldn't have to deal with this garbage. Every approach I've seen so far has simply moved him from one venue to another, but hasn't meaningfully reduced the frequency. I think if we bulk shut down all VPNgate proxies, that has a chance of working. I don't think anything less than this has a chance, but I support any attempts, including Ivanvector's approach. We need a much firmer approach with MAB. --<a href="/wiki/User:Yamla" title="User:Yamla">Yamla</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Yamla" title="User talk:Yamla">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Yamla-20241114150700-Deepfriedokra-20241114150200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:07, 14 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-43" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>Yeah, I think PC is the least bad option here. <a href="/wiki/User:331dot" title="User:331dot">331dot</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:331dot" title="User talk:331dot">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-331dot-20241114152900-Yamla-20241114150700" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:29, 14 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-44" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>This is exactly what I mentioned <a href="https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Research_talk:Wikipedia_Administrator_Recruitment,_Retention,_and_Attrition#Retention_strategy" class="extiw" title="meta:Research talk:Wikipedia Administrator Recruitment, Retention, and Attrition">on Meta for admin retention strategy</a>, which includes more resources from WMF to support admins dealing with persistent, long-term abuse. <a href="/wiki/User:OhanaUnited" title="User:OhanaUnited">OhanaUnited</a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:OhanaUnited" title="User talk:OhanaUnited">Talk page</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-OhanaUnited-20241114220400-331dot-20241114152900" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:04, 14 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-45" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd> <dd>Double amen on getting the proxies list. Ridiculous that we don't have it. — <a href="/wiki/User:Rsjaffe" title="User:Rsjaffe">rsjaffe</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Rsjaffe" title="User talk:Rsjaffe">🗣️</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Rsjaffe-20241114194400-ScottishFinnishRadish-20241114145800" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:44, 14 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-46" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd></dl></dd> <dd>Putting PC on the Teahouse in particular has a detrimental effect on its target audience - new, inexperienced users. As I said in the original discussion, if used in the case described, it should be for hours at a time, not a month. <a href="/wiki/User:Pigsonthewing" title="User:Pigsonthewing">Andy Mabbett</a> (Pigsonthewing); <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Pigsonthewing" title="User talk:Pigsonthewing">Talk to Andy</a>; <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing" title="Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing">Andy's edits</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Pigsonthewing-20241114172200-Ivanvector-20241114144200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:22, 14 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-47" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>Indeed. MAB gets frustrated quickly and moves along. <a href="/wiki/User:Deepfriedokra" title="User:Deepfriedokra">-- Deepfriedokra</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Deepfriedokra" title="User talk:Deepfriedokra">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Deepfriedokra-20241114172400-Pigsonthewing-20241114172200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:24, 14 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-48" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>The conundrum here is that if we protect for a short amount of time, or for a long time, MAB comes back within hours of the protection expiring. I agree that our goal here is to limit the disruption to new users, and I guess the question is: is it more disruptive to new users to have to submit their questions to a queue for approval (pending changes), or not be able to submit questions at all for a period of time (semiprotection), or to be frustrated by edit conflicts when MAB is active and spamming the page? We don't have a lot of good options here. <a href="/wiki/User:Ivanvector" title="User:Ivanvector">Ivanvector</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Ivanvector" title="User talk:Ivanvector">Talk</a>/<a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Ivanvector" title="Special:Contributions/Ivanvector">Edits</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Ivanvector-20241114191100-Deepfriedokra-20241114172400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:11, 14 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-49" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>I think pending changes works perfectly well for this and don't really understand the opposition to it. It's not like newbies posting at the teahouse get immediate responses. They can also survive not getting immediate posting access. But semi-protection for an extended period of time is a bad idea, imo. -- <a href="/wiki/User:Asilvering" title="User:Asilvering">asilvering</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Asilvering" title="User talk:Asilvering">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Asilvering-20241114192500-Ivanvector-20241114191100" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:25, 14 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-50" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>For me, the issue is that they're normally reverted and blocked very quickly. Adding PC to that adds additional labor even when they're not actively trying to disrupt the noticeboards. I don't strongly object to PC, but I don't think it's actually benefiting us. <a href="/wiki/User:ScottishFinnishRadish" title="User:ScottishFinnishRadish">ScottishFinnishRadish</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:ScottishFinnishRadish" title="User talk:ScottishFinnishRadish">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-ScottishFinnishRadish-20241114194000-Asilvering-20241114192500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:40, 14 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-51" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>Hm, that's fair. I don't really feel like periodically approving some pending changes is a lot of work, but I see what you mean. I'll be the "don't strongly support" to your "don't strongly object". -- <a href="/wiki/User:Asilvering" title="User:Asilvering">asilvering</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Asilvering" title="User talk:Asilvering">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Asilvering-20241114194800-ScottishFinnishRadish-20241114194000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:48, 14 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-52" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>A question in that vein: are users seeing a message that discourages them from editing pages under PC protection? I haven't been able to check, I'm on a corporate VPN. I can report that the message that logged-out editors get on proxy-blocked IPs is fairly discouraging. <a href="/wiki/User:Ivanvector" title="User:Ivanvector">Ivanvector</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Ivanvector" title="User talk:Ivanvector">Talk</a>/<a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Ivanvector" title="Special:Contributions/Ivanvector">Edits</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Ivanvector-20241114201100-Asilvering-20241114194800" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:11, 14 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-53" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>Logged into my testalt – appears there's a list of info with the following wording:</dd> <dd>"Note: Edits to this page from new or unregistered users are subject to review prior to publication (help link).</dd> <dd>[Protection log entry for PC]</dd> <dd>The latest accepted version was reviewed on xyz date. There are x pending revisions awaiting review.</dd> <dd>The edit form below includes changes that have not yet been accepted. (show those changes)"</dd> <dd>It's all listed next to an information icon, so no red warning signs or (excessively) giant text for what it's worth. I can't say whether or not that deters any editors, though. <a href="/wiki/User:Perfect4th" title="User:Perfect4th">Perfect4th</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Perfect4th" title="User talk:Perfect4th">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Perfect4th-20241115021000-Ivanvector-20241114201100" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:10, 15 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-54" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <ul><li>I know the edit filter is not a fix-all solution, but might it be useful in this case? --<a href="/wiki/User:Floquenbeam" title="User:Floquenbeam">Floquenbeam</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Floquenbeam" title="User talk:Floquenbeam">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Floquenbeam-20241114191900-Ivanvector-20241114144200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:19, 14 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-55" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>Without going into detail, it's already being used. <a href="/wiki/User:Writ_Keeper" title="User:Writ Keeper">Writ Keeper</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Writ_Keeper" title="User talk:Writ Keeper">⚇</a><a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Writ_Keeper" title="Special:Contributions/Writ Keeper">♔</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Writ_Keeper-20241114192400-Floquenbeam-20241114191900" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:24, 14 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-56" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>I see. Well, in that case, (1) I would certainly defer to the judgement of people dealing with this user, but (2) if outside opinions are actively being solicited, I think I come down on the side of making Teahouse and Help desk more available to new editors, even if it means having to deal with more MAB posts. If we keep pending changes, asking more PCR's to watch both pages for legit questions might help. If we remove PC, then asking more admins to watch those pages and RBI might help. That's ... pretty useless advice, but it's all I've got. <a href="/wiki/User:Floquenbeam" title="User:Floquenbeam">Floquenbeam</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Floquenbeam" title="User talk:Floquenbeam">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Floquenbeam-20241114193300-Writ_Keeper-20241114192400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:33, 14 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-57" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>I'm an administrator with over 11,600 edits to the Teahouse and it is definitely frustrating to deal with this driven individual. Rapid reverting and blocking is the obvious approach and trying to engage is an especially poor idea in this particular case. Personally, I find pending changes a clunky solution that may well deter new good faith editors. I agree with Floquenbeam that more adminstrator eyes on the Teahouse and the Help Desk would be a good thing, and if this conversation accomplishes that, then that is a positive outcome. <a href="/wiki/User:Cullen328" title="User:Cullen328">Cullen328</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Cullen328" title="User talk:Cullen328">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Cullen328-20241114202000-Floquenbeam-20241114193300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:20, 14 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-58" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>I do not recommend engagement. It proved counter productive. <a href="/wiki/User:Deepfriedokra" title="User:Deepfriedokra">-- Deepfriedokra</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Deepfriedokra" title="User talk:Deepfriedokra">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Deepfriedokra-20241114202800-Cullen328-20241114202000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:28, 14 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-59" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd> <dd>(<a href="/wiki/Help:Edit_conflict" title="Help:Edit conflict">edit conflict</a>) I thought I saw your face come up in the header yesterday. <a href="/wiki/User:Ivanvector" title="User:Ivanvector">Ivanvector</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Ivanvector" title="User talk:Ivanvector">Talk</a>/<a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Ivanvector" title="Special:Contributions/Ivanvector">Edits</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Ivanvector-20241114202800-Cullen328-20241114202000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:28, 14 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-60" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></li></ul> <dl><dd>If possible, I immediately unwatch all pages under PC (I really, really hate PC) so I am no longer watching the Teahouse or the Help Desk. Certainly protection of any kind for newbie-facing pages like these should be as short as possible. If we are fighting a single troll, I expect they will sleep every now and then so protection should be not longer than 16 or 20 hours at a time. —<a href="/wiki/User:Kusma" title="User:Kusma">Kusma</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Kusma" title="User talk:Kusma">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Kusma-20241114224900-Ivanvector-20241114144200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:49, 14 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-61" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd></dl> My suggested approach to this type of individual has always that the Foundation should bring a legal proceeding seeking injunctive relief. I do not know whether that might be practicable in this instance nor whether the possibility has been explored. <a href="/wiki/User:Newyorkbrad" title="User:Newyorkbrad">Newyorkbrad</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Newyorkbrad" title="User talk:Newyorkbrad">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Newyorkbrad-20241114203000-Seeking_opinions:_protection_of_the_help_desk_and_teahouse" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:30, 14 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-62" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>I admit to some curiosity about how this would be possible but it seems like a <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:BEANS" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:BEANS">WP:BEANS</a> issue to discuss here. -- <a href="/wiki/User:Asilvering" title="User:Asilvering">asilvering</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Asilvering" title="User talk:Asilvering">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Asilvering-20241114204200-Newyorkbrad-20241114203000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:42, 14 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-63" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd></dl> <ul><li>I think we're in agreement here that protection on these pages is not ideal, especially not long protection. I'll lower it on both pages momentarily. Might I suggest that when MAB shows up again, short periods of PC would be preferred to short periods of semi? Or is consensus that we should not protect these pages at all and revert when needed instead? <a href="/wiki/User:Ivanvector" title="User:Ivanvector">Ivanvector</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Ivanvector" title="User talk:Ivanvector">Talk</a>/<a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Ivanvector" title="Special:Contributions/Ivanvector">Edits</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Ivanvector-20241114203300-Newyorkbrad-20241114203000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:33, 14 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-64" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>I think we should at the very least protect the pages for long enough to get them to go elsewhere. I don't think that needs to be a long time - 10 or 15 minutes worked for me last time. -- <a href="/wiki/User:Asilvering" title="User:Asilvering">asilvering</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Asilvering" title="User talk:Asilvering">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Asilvering-20241114204100-Ivanvector-20241114203300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:41, 14 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-65" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>If we protect, it should be PC, not semi. Don't want to close the door on a newbie. That could have a lasting effect on the editor. — <a href="/wiki/User:Rsjaffe" title="User:Rsjaffe">rsjaffe</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Rsjaffe" title="User talk:Rsjaffe">🗣️</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Rsjaffe-20241114210000-Asilvering-20241114204100" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:00, 14 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-66" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>And we don't care about the effect on established editors? <a href="/wiki/User:Johnuniq" title="User:Johnuniq">Johnuniq</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Johnuniq" title="User talk:Johnuniq">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Johnuniq-20241114231800-Rsjaffe-20241114210000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:18, 14 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-67" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></li> <li>I emailed <a href="/wiki/User:JKoerner_(WMF)" title="User:JKoerner (WMF)">JKoerner (WMF)</a> a couple of weeks ago after seeing <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Village_pump_(miscellaneous)/Archive_80#Relaunch_of_the_Community_Safety_Survey" title="Wikipedia:Village pump (miscellaneous)/Archive 80">Relaunch of the Community Safety Survey</a>. I gave brief examples of abuse and wrote <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1248585704"><q class="inline-quote-talk">Asking "have you felt unsafe or uncomfortable contributing to Wikipedia" is not appropriate when such extreme abuse cannot be prevented.</q> I received a nice reply but do not expect anything further. It is past time for the community to push the WMF. We need a statement that they exist to spend money on maintenance or on marketing. <a href="/wiki/User:Johnuniq" title="User:Johnuniq">Johnuniq</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Johnuniq" title="User talk:Johnuniq">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Johnuniq-20241114231800-Newyorkbrad-20241114203000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:18, 14 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-68" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>Do you think they have any money to spare?[<a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Sarcasm_is_really_helpful" title="Wikipedia:Sarcasm is really helpful">sarcasm</a>] — <a href="/wiki/User:Rsjaffe" title="User:Rsjaffe">rsjaffe</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Rsjaffe" title="User talk:Rsjaffe">🗣️</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Rsjaffe-20241115013500-Johnuniq-20241114231800" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:35, 15 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-69" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd></dl></li> <li>(Non-administrator comment) Wouldn't it be wise to discuss further this wherever admins discuss LTA matters, i.e. maybe in a less public forum? Perhaps there's a chat or something? I'm not trying to prevent non-administrators from offering opinions, but it should probably be assumed that most LTA are aware of these noticeboards and the talk pages of the pages they're disrupting and are monitoring them to see what steps are going to be taken. The Help Desk was unprotected and the posts starting appearing right away. If <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:RBI" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:RBI">WP:RBI</a> is what needs to be done with respect to LTA, then even a discussion such as this seems to somewhat be giving the LTA what its wants. -- <a href="/wiki/User:Marchjuly" title="User:Marchjuly">Marchjuly</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Marchjuly" title="User talk:Marchjuly">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Marchjuly-20241115003000-Newyorkbrad-20241114203000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:30, 15 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-70" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></li></ul> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading3"><h3 id="Proposal:_Ask_the_WMF_to_evaluate_legal_remedies" data-mw-thread-id="h-Proposal:_Ask_the_WMF_to_evaluate_legal_remedies-Seeking_opinions:_protection_of_the_help_desk_and_teahouse-20241121040500">Proposal: Ask the WMF to evaluate legal remedies</h3> <a role="button" href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard&action=edit&section=5" title="Edit section: Proposal: Ask the WMF to evaluate legal remedies" class="cdx-button cdx-button--size-large cdx-button--fake-button cdx-button--fake-button--enabled cdx-button--icon-only cdx-button--weight-quiet "> edit </a> </div> I appreciate that this is crossing a threshold into more serious waters, but I feel it's completely warranted to discuss at this point. To be clear: I am only interested in discussing whether we should ask the WMF to investigate; of course, I do not think anyone else should conduct anything themselves. While invoking the legal system is almost always a rhetorical pratfall, the internet is real life, and this level of sustained attack on Wikipedia's ability to operate warrants outside intervention. In my view, the WMF should determine whether MAB can be identified, and evaluate the merits of taking legal action against them if so. I know there has been much concern recently as regards the personal information of users, but there is no reason that seeking legal remedy against one of the most disruptive serial bad-faith actors in site history should be seen as a violation of trust or principles. Per <a href="/wiki/User:Win8x" title="User:Win8x">User:win8x</a>, it seems plausible for the WMF to contact VPNGate given <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://www.vpngate.net/en/about_abuse.aspx">their anti-abuse policy</a>. I would appreciate input regarding whether we should communicate this matter to the WMF, and if so what the best means of doing so are. <a href="/wiki/User:Remsense" title="User:Remsense">Remsense</a> ‥ <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Remsense" title="User talk:Remsense">论</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Remsense-20241121040500-Proposal:_Ask_the_WMF_to_evaluate_legal_remedies" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">04:05, 21 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-71" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>This sounds like something that ArbCom could try to talk with the WMF about. A petition should be a last resort. <a href="/wiki/User:Voorts" title="User:Voorts">voorts</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Voorts" title="User talk:Voorts">talk</a>/<a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Voorts" title="Special:Contributions/Voorts">contributions</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Voorts-20241121041900-Remsense-20241121040500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">04:19, 21 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-72" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>Right—I've clarified that I would support whatever means of communication is considered best. <a href="/wiki/User:Remsense" title="User:Remsense">Remsense</a> ‥ <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Remsense" title="User talk:Remsense">论</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Remsense-20241121042400-Voorts-20241121041900" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">04:24, 21 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-73" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd></dl></dd></dl> </section><div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section section-heading" onclick="mfTempOpenSection(5)"><h2 id="InfoWars_link" data-mw-thread-id="h-InfoWars_link-20241116025300">InfoWars link</h2> <a role="button" href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard&action=edit&section=6" title="Edit section: InfoWars link" class="cdx-button cdx-button--size-large cdx-button--fake-button cdx-button--fake-button--enabled cdx-button--icon-only cdx-button--weight-quiet "> edit </a> <span id='ooui-php-417' class='ext-discussiontools-init-section-overflowMenuButton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-buttonWidget' data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonMenuSelectWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"ellipsis","data":{"itemConfigs":[{"id":"edit","data":{"id":"edit"},"icon":"edit","label":"Edit"}],"resourceLoaderModules":[]},"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-section-overflowMenuButton"]}'><a role='button' tabindex='0' rel='nofollow' class='oo-ui-buttonElement-button'></a><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata">Latest comment: <a href="#c-Voorts-20241117181900-HandThatFeeds-20241117175500">6 days ago</a>7 comments4 people in discussion</div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div><section class="mf-section-5 collapsible-block" id="mf-section-5"> Could someone with the permission to add and edit these links please change the link at the bottom of the <a href="/wiki/InfoWars" title="InfoWars">InfoWars</a> article from <code>infowars(dot)com/contributors</code> to <code>infowars(dot)com/</code>, because the contributors page doesn't exist at the moment. Thank you. <a href="/wiki/User:Nythar" title="User:Nythar">Nythar</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Nythar" title="User talk:Nythar">💬</a>-<a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Nythar" title="Special:Contributions/Nythar">🍀</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Nythar-20241116025300-InfoWars_link" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:53, 16 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-74" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>You should make a request at <a href="/wiki/MediaWiki_talk:Spam-whitelist" title="MediaWiki talk:Spam-whitelist">MediaWiki talk:Spam-whitelist</a>. <a href="/wiki/User:Voorts" title="User:Voorts">voorts</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Voorts" title="User talk:Voorts">talk</a>/<a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Voorts" title="Special:Contributions/Voorts">contributions</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Voorts-20241116025900-Nythar-20241116025300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:59, 16 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-75" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>Well that's ... not how I thought this works. I don't want it whitelisted everywhere. Guess that's not possible then. Thanks. <a href="/wiki/User:Nythar" title="User:Nythar">Nythar</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Nythar" title="User talk:Nythar">💬</a>-<a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Nythar" title="Special:Contributions/Nythar">🍀</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Nythar-20241116031300-Voorts-20241116025900" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">03:13, 16 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-76" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>The /contributors link is whitelisted everywhere. We don't normally whitelist domain roots for reasons explained at <a href="/wiki/MediaWiki_talk:Spam-whitelist/Common_requests#The_official_homepage_of_the_subject_of_a_page" title="MediaWiki talk:Spam-whitelist/Common requests">MediaWiki talk:spam-whitelist/Common requests#The official homepage of the subject of a page</a> <a href="/wiki/User:Pppery" title="User:Pppery">* Pppery *</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Pppery" title="User talk:Pppery">it has begun...</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Pppery-20241116043300-Nythar-20241116031300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">04:33, 16 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-77" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>Apparently we can use "<link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1248585704"><q class="inline-quote-talk">a neutral landing page like the site's "about" or "information" page</q>". Their /about page is online; I'll go ahead and request a whitelisting for that. Thanks Pppery. <a href="/wiki/User:Nythar" title="User:Nythar">Nythar</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Nythar" title="User talk:Nythar">💬</a>-<a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Nythar" title="Special:Contributions/Nythar">🍀</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Nythar-20241116050200-Pppery-20241116043300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">05:02, 16 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-78" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>Of note, there's currently <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://apnews.com/article/alex-jones-infowars-auction-onion-how-d42e7b2c916205b348628686c8b8dd4a">a legal dispute</a> over the new ownership of the site, so it may be a bit premature to make any changes to whitelisting anything. — <a href="/wiki/User:HandThatFeeds" title="User:HandThatFeeds">The Hand That Feeds You</a>:<a href="/wiki/User_talk:HandThatFeeds" title="User talk:HandThatFeeds">Bite</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-HandThatFeeds-20241117175500-Nythar-20241116050200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:55, 17 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-79" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>Well we still need a link to the site and the current one is broken. Whitelisting one page briefly is easily reversed if needed. <a href="/wiki/User:Voorts" title="User:Voorts">voorts</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Voorts" title="User talk:Voorts">talk</a>/<a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Voorts" title="Special:Contributions/Voorts">contributions</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Voorts-20241117181900-HandThatFeeds-20241117175500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:19, 17 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-80" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> </section><div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section section-heading" onclick="mfTempOpenSection(6)"><h2 id="Need_an_RFC_closed" data-mw-thread-id="h-Need_an_RFC_closed-20241116063400">Need an RFC closed</h2> <a role="button" href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard&action=edit&section=7" title="Edit section: Need an RFC closed" class="cdx-button cdx-button--size-large cdx-button--fake-button cdx-button--fake-button--enabled cdx-button--icon-only cdx-button--weight-quiet "> edit </a> <span id='ooui-php-418' class='ext-discussiontools-init-section-overflowMenuButton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-buttonWidget' data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonMenuSelectWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"ellipsis","data":{"itemConfigs":[{"id":"edit","data":{"id":"edit"},"icon":"edit","label":"Edit"}],"resourceLoaderModules":[]},"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-section-overflowMenuButton"]}'><a role='button' tabindex='0' rel='nofollow' class='oo-ui-buttonElement-button'></a><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata">Latest comment: <a href="#c-WhatamIdoing-20241119164800-Compassionate727-20241116191400">4 days ago</a>5 comments3 people in discussion</div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div><section class="mf-section-6 collapsible-block" id="mf-section-6"> <style data-mw-deduplicate="TemplateStyles:r1250141580">.mw-parser-output .archive-top{background-color:#EDEAFF;color:inherit;padding:0 0.6em;border:1px solid #8779DD}.mw-parser-output .archive-top-result .side-box-abovebelow{background-color:#c3c3c3;color:inherit;text-align:center;font-size:110%;font-weight:bold}@media screen{html.skin-theme-clientpref-night .mw-parser-output .archive-top{background-color:#181424;border:1px solid #8072d6;color:#fff}html.skin-theme-clientpref-night .mw-parser-output .archive-top-result .side-box-abovebelow{background-color:#141126;color:#fff}}@media screen and (prefers-color-scheme:dark){html.skin-theme-clientpref-os .mw-parser-output .archive-top{background-color:#181424;border:1px solid #8072d6;color:#fff}html.skin-theme-clientpref-os .mw-parser-output .archive-top-result .side-box-abovebelow{background-color:#141126;color:#fff}}@media(min-width:640px){.mw-parser-output .archive-top-result{width:30%}}</style><div class="boilerplate archived archive-top mw-archivedtalk" style=""> <div class="boilerplate-header" style="margin-left: 1.6em; font-style: italic;"> The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion. </div> <hr> <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Notability_(species)#Proposal_to_adopt_this_guideline" title="Wikipedia talk:Notability (species)">Wikipedia talk:Notability (species)#Proposal to adopt this guideline</a> has been open for about a hundred days now, with no comments for the last couple of weeks. It's the oldest discussion listed at <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Closure_requests" title="Wikipedia:Closure requests">Wikipedia:Closure requests</a>. It's a long discussion, but I don't think it's the most difficult, so please let me encourage you to write a nice summary for us. Thank you, <a href="/wiki/User:WhatamIdoing" title="User:WhatamIdoing">WhatamIdoing</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:WhatamIdoing" title="User talk:WhatamIdoing">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-WhatamIdoing-20241116063400-Need_an_RFC_closed" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">06:34, 16 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-81" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>How did it go unnoticed for so long? <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/118.104.245.6" title="Special:Contributions/118.104.245.6">118.104.245.6</a> (<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:118.104.245.6&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User talk:118.104.245.6 (page does not exist)">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-118.104.245.6-20241116073200-WhatamIdoing-20241116063400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">07:32, 16 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-82" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>I don't think it's gone unnoticed. It takes a long time to read a long discussion, and not everyone can set aside a block of time. <a href="/wiki/User:WhatamIdoing" title="User:WhatamIdoing">WhatamIdoing</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:WhatamIdoing" title="User talk:WhatamIdoing">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-WhatamIdoing-20241116191100-118.104.245.6-20241116073200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:11, 16 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-83" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>I have ambitions to get to it eventually, but I committed to that mess of a discussion at <a href="/wiki/Talk:International_Churches_of_Christ" title="Talk:International Churches of Christ">Talk:International Churches of Christ</a>, so that takes priority for me. —<a href="/wiki/User:Compassionate727" title="User:Compassionate727">Compassionate727</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Compassionate727" title="User talk:Compassionate727">T</a>·<a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Compassionate727" title="Special:Contributions/Compassionate727">C</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Compassionate727-20241116191400-WhatamIdoing-20241116191100" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:14, 16 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-84" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:Tamzin" title="User:Tamzin">Tamzin</a> has closed this. <a href="/wiki/User:WhatamIdoing" title="User:WhatamIdoing">WhatamIdoing</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:WhatamIdoing" title="User talk:WhatamIdoing">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-WhatamIdoing-20241119164800-Compassionate727-20241116191400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:48, 19 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-85" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div style="padding-left: 1.6em; font-style: italic; border-top: 1px solid #a2a9b1; margin: 0.5em 0; padding-top: 0.5em">The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.</div> </div><div style="clear:both;" class=""></div> </section><div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section section-heading" onclick="mfTempOpenSection(7)"><h2 id="Unban/unblock_request_for_Albertpda" data-mw-thread-id="h-Unban/unblock_request_for_Albertpda-20241116121400">Unban/unblock request for Albertpda</h2> <a role="button" href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard&action=edit&section=8" title="Edit section: Unban/unblock request for Albertpda" class="cdx-button cdx-button--size-large cdx-button--fake-button cdx-button--fake-button--enabled cdx-button--icon-only cdx-button--weight-quiet "> edit </a> <span id='ooui-php-419' class='ext-discussiontools-init-section-overflowMenuButton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-buttonWidget' data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonMenuSelectWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"ellipsis","data":{"itemConfigs":[{"id":"edit","data":{"id":"edit"},"icon":"edit","label":"Edit"}],"resourceLoaderModules":[]},"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-section-overflowMenuButton"]}'><a role='button' tabindex='0' rel='nofollow' class='oo-ui-buttonElement-button'></a><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata">Latest comment: <a href="#c-Bradv-20241123040400-Unban/unblock_request_for_Albertpda">23 hours ago</a>25 comments10 people in discussion</div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div><section class="mf-section-7 collapsible-block" id="mf-section-7"> <ul><li><a href="/wiki/User:Albertpda" title="User:Albertpda">Albertpda</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Albertpda" title="User talk:Albertpda">talk</a> · <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Albertpda" title="Special:Contributions/Albertpda">contribs</a> · <a href="/wiki/Special:DeletedContributions/Albertpda" title="Special:DeletedContributions/Albertpda">deleted contribs</a> · <a href="/wiki/Special:Log/move/Albertpda" title="Special:Log/move/Albertpda">page moves</a> · <a href="/wiki/Special:Block/Albertpda" title="Special:Block/Albertpda">block user</a> · <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3ALog%2Fblock&page=User%3AAlbertpda">block log</a>)</li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Sockpuppet_investigations/Albertpda/Archive" title="Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Albertpda/Archive">Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Albertpda/Archive</a></li> <li>Pinging @<a href="/wiki/User:Yamla" title="User:Yamla">Yamla</a>: UTRS checkuser-in-residence.</li> <li><a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="http://utrs-beta.wmflabs.org/appeal/94970">UTRS appeal #94970 </a></li> <li>Appellant is globally locked, which will make participation by appellant slow and cumbersome.</li></ul> <dl><dd>Here then it is--</dd></dl> <s>I acknowledge that I'm banned on the English Wikipedia and wish to request WP:UNBAN. Here is my request to appeal the ban and I would like someone to post it to the appropriate area:</s> "I sincerely request to be unblocked for the first time as I haven't been unblocked before, and be given a chance to return to contribute to the community. I understand that in the past I have engaged in warring edit and using accounts to evade to continue editing after being blocked. After mustering sufficient knowledge and experience, I have come to terms with the rules and acknowledge that I must embrace a serene approach in editing and resort at all cost to discussion when disagreements arise. I will restrain myself to the one-revert rule and embrace discussion. I also understand that abusing multiple accounts only complicates the matter and I will not sockpuppet under any circumstances. I will be very appreciate if I get extra help as a startup to further immerse with the positive environment. If unblocked, I would start editing in simple articles related to sports and geographical locations, as these type of articles generally lacks controversial segments so it would be easier to get used to the editing process. If disagreements arise, I have read and know how to use the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:3O" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:3O">WP:3O</a> to soliciate third opinions for a consensus-reaching process. I also read and understand <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:DR" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:DR">WP:DR</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:MEDIATE" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:MEDIATE">WP:MEDIATE</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:RFC" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:RFC">WP:RFC</a> and other policies and will strictly resort to and abide by these when disagreements arise. I will ask questions whenever necessary. After all, Wikipedia is an environment of collaborative editing and positive exchange. I now understand this well. We strike to construct a friendly environment. I learn to understand and respect other people's stances on matter. Warring edit counters this aspect and should be absolutely avoided in my mind. When I was first blocked I was a completely new editor to a new environment so I have yet to foster any experience and therefore engage in warring edit without knowing that contested edit must reach consensus. I now have read thoroughly the editing process and the policies to understand what I must abide by to create constructive and positive collaboration. I have never been unblocked, so it is worth it to give me a chance to prove that I will be a great contributor." <dl><dd>Carried over <a href="/wiki/User:Deepfriedokra" title="User:Deepfriedokra">-- Deepfriedokra</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Deepfriedokra" title="User talk:Deepfriedokra">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Deepfriedokra-20241116121400-Unban/unblock_request_for_Albertpda" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">12:14, 16 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-86" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd></dl> <ul><li> tentative and hope filled support unblock.<a href="/wiki/User:Deepfriedokra" title="User:Deepfriedokra">-- Deepfriedokra</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Deepfriedokra" title="User talk:Deepfriedokra">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Deepfriedokra-20241116150700-Unban/unblock_request_for_Albertpda" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:07, 16 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-87" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></li> <li>Is it confirmed that there has been no sockpuppetry recently? —<a href="/wiki/User:Compassionate727" title="User:Compassionate727">Compassionate727</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Compassionate727" title="User talk:Compassionate727">T</a>·<a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Compassionate727" title="Special:Contributions/Compassionate727">C</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Compassionate727-20241116201600-Unban/unblock_request_for_Albertpda" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:16, 16 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-88" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>I was hoping Yamla would pop in. He did not comment on this UTRS. {{<a href="/wiki/Template:Checkuser_needed" title="Template:Checkuser needed">checkuser needed</a>}} to be certain. <a href="/wiki/User:Deepfriedokra" title="User:Deepfriedokra">-- Deepfriedokra</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Deepfriedokra" title="User talk:Deepfriedokra">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Deepfriedokra-20241116203100-Compassionate727-20241116201600" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:31, 16 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-89" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>CU isn't much use here. The Albertpda account is <noscript><img alt="" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/6c/Time2wait.svg/16px-Time2wait.svg.png" decoding="async" width="16" height="16" class="mw-file-element" data-file-width="180" data-file-height="185"></noscript><span class="lazy-image-placeholder" style="width: 16px;height: 16px;" data-src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/6c/Time2wait.svg/16px-Time2wait.svg.png" data-alt="" data-width="16" data-height="16" data-srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/6c/Time2wait.svg/24px-Time2wait.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/6c/Time2wait.svg/32px-Time2wait.svg.png 2x" data-class="mw-file-element">  Stale, which would be expected as it's globally locked. I don't have CU access on UTRS and am not sure how that works but maybe that would be more helpful.<div class="paragraphbreak" style="margin-top:0.5em"></div>I would be extremely hesitant to unblock this user even if CU comes up clear. The socking history is <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Wikipedia_sockpuppets_of_Albertpda">extensive</a> and their edits are pretty much all disruptive, see <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/Orgoto">the most recent sock listed at SPI</a> for example. This doesn't seem like a situation where someone is trying to make valid contributions but keeps getting blocked for block evasion. I do not see the point in unblocking someone who's likely going to go around indiscriminately blanking articles. <a href="/wiki/User:Spicy" title="User:Spicy">Spicy</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Spicy" title="User talk:Spicy">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Spicy-20241117133600-Deepfriedokra-20241116203100" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">13:36, 17 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-90" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>The CU data from the UTRS request shows that it is coming in from a spur.us confirmed residential proxy. The particular IP address range is hard-blocked on en.wiki. There's been no evasion from the IP address range, but that's a truism as it's been hard-blocked. Based on the UTRS CU evidence, I can't even be sure the UTRS is coming from Albertpda (but have no evidence it isn't). --<a href="/wiki/User:Yamla" title="User:Yamla">Yamla</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Yamla" title="User talk:Yamla">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Yamla-20241117134300-Spicy-20241117133600" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">13:43, 17 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-91" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></li> <li>Weak support per above. Given that the user has no recent sockpuppetry on any Wikimedia wiki, then the user might be unlocked soon. <a href="/wiki/User:Ahri_Boy" title="User:Ahri Boy">Ahri Boy</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Ahri_Boy" title="User talk:Ahri Boy">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Ahri_Boy-20241116224400-Unban/unblock_request_for_Albertpda" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:44, 16 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-92" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></li> <li>I'm landing, with some hesitation, on <s>oppose</s>. I feel slightly guilty doing this because I cannot really articulate why, but I feel in my gut that unblocking would be a mistake. Something about the request… I don't know, it kinda feels like someone who knows what types of things they should say in an appeal but isn't exactly sincere. The fact that it can't meaningfully be demonstrated that he has repented of the sockpuppetry and disruption only exacerbates my concerns. I'm sorry. —<a href="/wiki/User:Compassionate727" title="User:Compassionate727">Compassionate727</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Compassionate727" title="User talk:Compassionate727">T</a>·<a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Compassionate727" title="Special:Contributions/Compassionate727">C</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Compassionate727-20241117180200-Unban/unblock_request_for_Albertpda" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:02, 17 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-93" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:Compassionate727" title="User:Compassionate727">Compassionate727</a>: I cannot rationally articulate my tentative support, so we are even. <a href="/wiki/User:Deepfriedokra" title="User:Deepfriedokra">-- Deepfriedokra</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Deepfriedokra" title="User talk:Deepfriedokra">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Deepfriedokra-20241117181000-Compassionate727-20241117180200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:10, 17 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-94" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd><dl><dd>Reply to Compassionate727 carried over-</dd></dl></dd> <dd>"Thank you but you should or may have not also bring in the first two sentence that are not in the quotation marks, can you remove them from the request on the noticeboard, because it may make the request looks somewhat awkward. Can you kindly carry over my reply to Compassionate727 in the noticeboard as follows: Compassionate727, I'm really, really sincere about being unblocked. I really regret the edit warring I did and the subsequent block evasion. It's important to note that I have never been unblocked so why is giving someone a chance so hard? I can be easily blocked again if I infringe the rules again. Why would I take all this time to write the request and wait just to be insincere and blocked again? Anyone can mature greatly, please give me the opportunity to be positively productive. I first created my account 9 years ago. The primary reason for my block was because of edit warring. All the other accounts were blocked only because of block evasion. I addressed above how to avoid edit warring in the future, and especially I will restrict myself to the one-revert restriction. 9 years ago I was younger and not as clear headed. If you unblock me, you can either get a vandal that easily blocked after seconds (which is a very small risk) or a positive contributor who contribute positively for years (which is a very reasonable great positive exchange). I promise you with my hearts I will be on the latter side." <dl><dd>Carried over by me. <a href="/wiki/User:Deepfriedokra" title="User:Deepfriedokra">-- Deepfriedokra</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Deepfriedokra" title="User talk:Deepfriedokra">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Deepfriedokra-20241118060800-Deepfriedokra-20241117181000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">06:08, 18 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-95" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:Compassionate727" title="User:Compassionate727">Compassionate727</a>: <a href="/wiki/User:Deepfriedokra" title="User:Deepfriedokra">-- Deepfriedokra</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Deepfriedokra" title="User talk:Deepfriedokra">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Deepfriedokra-20241119031100-Deepfriedokra-20241118060800" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">03:11, 19 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-96" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></li> <li>Noting Global lock has been down-graded to a global block. Hopefully, Albertpda can now edit his talk page. <a href="/wiki/User:Deepfriedokra" title="User:Deepfriedokra">-- Deepfriedokra</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Deepfriedokra" title="User talk:Deepfriedokra">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Deepfriedokra-20241118154800-Unban/unblock_request_for_Albertpda" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:48, 18 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-97" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>I disabled the global block locally. Hopefully, that fixed it. <a href="/wiki/User:Deepfriedokra" title="User:Deepfriedokra">-- Deepfriedokra</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Deepfriedokra" title="User talk:Deepfriedokra">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Deepfriedokra-20241119031200-Deepfriedokra-20241118154800" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">03:12, 19 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-98" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>Noting to hold the archival bot at bay that I'd hoped for greater participation. 😢 <a href="/wiki/User:Deepfriedokra" title="User:Deepfriedokra">-- Deepfriedokra</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Deepfriedokra" title="User talk:Deepfriedokra">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Deepfriedokra-20241120082600-Deepfriedokra-20241119031200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">08:26, 20 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-99" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd></dl></dd></dl></li> <li>Oppose, the unblock statement says "If unblocked, I would start editing in simple articles related to sports and geographical locations, as these type of articles generally lacks controversial segments so it would be easier to get used to the editing process." I do not know about sports, but my interactions with this user (specifically various socks) were disruption in geographic articles. Someone saying a topic that they have created large numbers of sockpuppets to war in "generally lacks controversial segments" inspires no confidence. If they want to be unblocked, they should pledge to avoid this area that has clearly caused huge issues, not pledge to specifically go back to it. <a href="/wiki/User:Chipmunkdavis" title="User:Chipmunkdavis">CMD</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Chipmunkdavis" title="User talk:Chipmunkdavis">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Chipmunkdavis-20241120091700-Unban/unblock_request_for_Albertpda" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">09:17, 20 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-100" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd><dl><dd>reply carried over</dd></dl></dd> <dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:Chipmunkdavis" title="User:Chipmunkdavis">Chipmunkdavis</a>:: I pledge to avoid editing in the area of geography for a period of a year while making at least 1000 good faith non-disruptive edits in other areas. I also pledge to be restricted to a one-revert restriction rule. May you accept it? <dl><dd>reply carried over</dd></dl></dd> <dd><a href="/wiki/User:Deepfriedokra" title="User:Deepfriedokra">-- Deepfriedokra</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Deepfriedokra" title="User talk:Deepfriedokra">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Deepfriedokra-20241120125000-Chipmunkdavis-20241120091700" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">12:50, 20 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-101" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>A year and 1000 non-disruptive edits? It's not up to me to accept, but if an unblocking admin wants to take that on I won't stop them. <a href="/wiki/User:Chipmunkdavis" title="User:Chipmunkdavis">CMD</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Chipmunkdavis" title="User talk:Chipmunkdavis">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Chipmunkdavis-20241120141500-Deepfriedokra-20241120125000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">14:15, 20 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-102" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd><dl><dd>reply carried over-</dd></dl></dd> <dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:Chipmunkdavis" title="User:Chipmunkdavis">Chipmunkdavis</a>: So may you support the appeal with the addition of this condition? <a href="/wiki/User:Deepfriedokra" title="User:Deepfriedokra">-- Deepfriedokra</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Deepfriedokra" title="User talk:Deepfriedokra">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Deepfriedokra-20241121021600-Chipmunkdavis-20241120141500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:16, 21 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-103" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>I am unsure if I would support the appeal, but as above an admin is welcome to disregard my oppose to the original request given the modifications. <a href="/wiki/User:Chipmunkdavis" title="User:Chipmunkdavis">CMD</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Chipmunkdavis" title="User talk:Chipmunkdavis">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Chipmunkdavis-20241121022400-Deepfriedokra-20241121021600" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:24, 21 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-104" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></li> <li>You know what, I'm convinced. I'll support if a one year 1RR restriction is imposed, and I'm neutral otherwise. No opinion on the TBAN from geography, I'd need to understand this user's history better than I do. —<a href="/wiki/User:Compassionate727" title="User:Compassionate727">Compassionate727</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Compassionate727" title="User talk:Compassionate727">T</a>·<a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Compassionate727" title="Special:Contributions/Compassionate727">C</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Compassionate727-20241121125000-Unban/unblock_request_for_Albertpda" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">12:50, 21 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-105" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></li> <li>Support, they have put in the time to learn about the project and understand their mistakes. It seems that they've grown and matured; I believe they deserve a second chance. <a href="/wiki/User:StartGrammarTime" title="User:StartGrammarTime">StartGrammarTime</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:StartGrammarTime" title="User talk:StartGrammarTime">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-StartGrammarTime-20241121153600-Unban/unblock_request_for_Albertpda" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:36, 21 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-106" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></li> <li>Weak support hold them to their word. You've got some rope...use it well. <a href="/wiki/User:Buffs" title="User:Buffs">Buffs</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Buffs" title="User talk:Buffs">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Buffs-20241121155100-Unban/unblock_request_for_Albertpda" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:51, 21 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-107" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></li> <li>Oppose Socked for too long. Let him prove he can productively edit any sister wiki before requesting unblock here again. <a href="/wiki/User:Capitals00" class="mw-redirect" title="User:Capitals00">Capitals00</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Capitals00" title="User talk:Capitals00">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Capitals00-20241123032700-Unban/unblock_request_for_Albertpda" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">03:27, 23 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-108" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>Can't. Globally blocked. I disabled it locally so he could participate in this discussion. <a href="/wiki/User:Deepfriedokra" title="User:Deepfriedokra">-- Deepfriedokra</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Deepfriedokra" title="User talk:Deepfriedokra">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Deepfriedokra-20241123033000-Capitals00-20241123032700" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">03:30, 23 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-109" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd></dl></li> <li>Support. I'm an optimist. I'll support this, with a 1RR restriction for one year, and a 1 account restriction indefinitely (i.e. no <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:LEGITSOCK" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:LEGITSOCK">WP:LEGITSOCKs</a>). – <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Bradv" title="User talk:Bradv">bradv</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Bradv-20241123040400-Unban/unblock_request_for_Albertpda" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">04:04, 23 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-110" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></li></ul> </section><div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section section-heading" onclick="mfTempOpenSection(8)"><h2 id="Courtesy_un-pblock_for_deceased_user" data-mw-thread-id="h-Courtesy_un-pblock_for_deceased_user-20241116221200">Courtesy un-pblock for deceased user</h2> <a role="button" href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard&action=edit&section=9" title="Edit section: Courtesy un-pblock for deceased user" class="cdx-button cdx-button--size-large cdx-button--fake-button cdx-button--fake-button--enabled cdx-button--icon-only cdx-button--weight-quiet "> edit </a> <span id='ooui-php-420' class='ext-discussiontools-init-section-overflowMenuButton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-buttonWidget' data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonMenuSelectWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"ellipsis","data":{"itemConfigs":[{"id":"edit","data":{"id":"edit"},"icon":"edit","label":"Edit"}],"resourceLoaderModules":[]},"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-section-overflowMenuButton"]}'><a role='button' tabindex='0' rel='nofollow' class='oo-ui-buttonElement-button'></a><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata">Latest comment: <a href="#c-Star_Mississippi-20241117182100-Courtesy_un-pblock_for_deceased_user">6 days ago</a>4 comments3 people in discussion</div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div><section class="mf-section-8 collapsible-block" id="mf-section-8"> <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1250141580"><div class="boilerplate archived archive-top mw-archivedtalk" style=""><style data-mw-deduplicate="TemplateStyles:r1235681985">.mw-parser-output .side-box{margin:4px 0;box-sizing:border-box;border:1px solid #aaa;font-size:88%;line-height:1.25em;background-color:var(--background-color-interactive-subtle,#f8f9fa);display:flow-root}.mw-parser-output .side-box-abovebelow,.mw-parser-output .side-box-text{padding:0.25em 0.9em}.mw-parser-output .side-box-image{padding:2px 0 2px 0.9em;text-align:center}.mw-parser-output .side-box-imageright{padding:2px 0.9em 2px 0;text-align:center}@media(min-width:500px){.mw-parser-output .side-box-flex{display:flex;align-items:center}.mw-parser-output .side-box-text{flex:1;min-width:0}}@media(min-width:720px){.mw-parser-output .side-box{width:238px}.mw-parser-output .side-box-right{clear:right;float:right;margin-left:1em}.mw-parser-output .side-box-left{margin-right:1em}}</style><div class="side-box metadata side-box-right archive-top-result" style="padding: 10px; line-height: inherit;"> <div class="side-box-flex"> <div class="side-box-text" style="padding: 0;">Unblocked per original admin's request, nothing further needed here. <a href="/wiki/User:Star_Mississippi" title="User:Star Mississippi">Star</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Star_Mississippi" title="User talk:Star Mississippi">Mississippi</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Star_Mississippi-20241117182100-Courtesy_un-pblock_for_deceased_user" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:21, 17 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-111" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></div></div> </div> <div class="boilerplate-header" style="margin-left: 1.6em; font-style: italic;"> The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion. </div> <hr> Hey all. Back in July 2022, I partially blocked <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:JohnClarknew">JohnClarknew</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:JohnClarknew" title="User talk:JohnClarknew">talk</a> · <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/JohnClarknew" title="Special:Contributions/JohnClarknew">contribs</a> · <a href="/wiki/Special:DeletedContributions/JohnClarknew" title="Special:DeletedContributions/JohnClarknew">deleted contribs</a> · <a href="/wiki/Special:Nuke/JohnClarknew" title="Special:Nuke/JohnClarknew">nuke contribs</a> · <a href="/wiki/Special:Log/JohnClarknew" title="Special:Log/JohnClarknew">logs</a> · <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3AAbuseLog&wpSearchUser=JohnClarknew">filter log</a> · <a href="/wiki/Special:Block/JohnClarknew" title="Special:Block/JohnClarknew">block user</a> · <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3ALog%2Fblock&page=User%3AJohnClarknew">block log</a>) from three articles that he had been editing in violation of <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:COI" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:COI">WP:COI</a>, including his disclosed IRL identity, <a href="/wiki/John_Clark_(English_actor)" title="John Clark (English actor)">John Clark (English actor)</a>. I didn't love making that block, as Clark was one of our oldest active editors (89 at the time), but there was no way around it. It came to my attention today that <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://archive.ph/20230802213223/https://www.facebook.com/johnclarknew/posts/pfbid02p4Tubdt4M2gtrYe8T8jSwZBBiyEErjyGgLuamxJC4zzycSMR8k6isLmnWQiNvqH9l">Clark died</a> about a year after that. While he's far from the first blocked user to die, in other cases where I've seen that happen it's been someone who was siteblocked and not really part of the community anymore. Clark, though, was still an editor in good standing at the time of his death, would even still have been eligible to vote in ArbCom elections if he hit activity requirements. So given his 3,000-plus mostly-positive edits and the fact that the block cannot any longer serve any purpose, would a current admin consider lifting the block I placed? Thanks. -- <a href="/wiki/User:Tamzin" title="User:Tamzin">Tamzin</a>[<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Tamzin" title="User talk:Tamzin">cetacean needed</a>] (<a href="/wiki/User:Tamzin/%F0%9F%A4%B7" class="mw-redirect" title="User:Tamzin/🤷">they|xe</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Tamzin-20241116221200-Courtesy_un-pblock_for_deceased_user" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:12, 16 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-112" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>Unblocked, will request glock. Is it norm to create a redlinked userpage for a deceased editor with {{<a href="/wiki/Template:Deceased" class="mw-redirect" title="Template:Deceased">deceased</a>}}? <a href="/wiki/User:Queen_of_Hearts" class="mw-redirect" title="User:Queen of Hearts">charlotte</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Queen_of_Hearts" title="User talk:Queen of Hearts">👸♥</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Queen_of_Hearts-20241116221600-Tamzin-20241116221200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:16, 16 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-113" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>I don't actually recall a time I've dealt dealt with a deceased user with a redlinked userpage, but I've gone and created one with {{<a href="/wiki/Template:Deceased" class="mw-redirect" title="Template:Deceased">deceased</a>}} and a link to his mainspace bio. I'll add something brief at least to <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Deceased_Wikipedians/2023" title="Wikipedia:Deceased Wikipedians/2023">Wikipedia:Deceased Wikipedians/2023</a>. -- <a href="/wiki/User:Tamzin" title="User:Tamzin">Tamzin</a>[<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Tamzin" title="User talk:Tamzin">cetacean needed</a>] (<a href="/wiki/User:Tamzin/%F0%9F%A4%B7" class="mw-redirect" title="User:Tamzin/🤷">they|xe</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Tamzin-20241116222500-Queen_of_Hearts-20241116221600" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:25, 16 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-114" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div style="padding-left: 1.6em; font-style: italic; border-top: 1px solid #a2a9b1; margin: 0.5em 0; padding-top: 0.5em">The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.</div> </div><div style="clear:both;" class=""></div> </section><div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section section-heading" onclick="mfTempOpenSection(9)"><h2 id="Deacon_of_Pndapetzim" data-mw-thread-id="h-Deacon_of_Pndapetzim-20241118184300">Deacon of Pndapetzim</h2> <a role="button" href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard&action=edit&section=10" title="Edit section: Deacon of Pndapetzim" class="cdx-button cdx-button--size-large cdx-button--fake-button cdx-button--fake-button--enabled cdx-button--icon-only cdx-button--weight-quiet "> edit </a> <span id='ooui-php-421' class='ext-discussiontools-init-section-overflowMenuButton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-buttonWidget' data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonMenuSelectWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"ellipsis","data":{"itemConfigs":[{"id":"edit","data":{"id":"edit"},"icon":"edit","label":"Edit"}],"resourceLoaderModules":[]},"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-section-overflowMenuButton"]}'><a role='button' tabindex='0' rel='nofollow' class='oo-ui-buttonElement-button'></a><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata">Latest comment: <a href="#c-Asilvering-20241119181200-Liz-20241119051300">4 days ago</a>64 comments17 people in discussion</div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div><section class="mf-section-9 collapsible-block" id="mf-section-9"> Administrator <a href="/wiki/User:Deacon_of_Pndapetzim" title="User:Deacon of Pndapetzim">Deacon of Pndapetzim</a> has doubled-down on uncivil and canvassing behavior at <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Dachuna" title="Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Dachuna">Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Dachuna</a>. <ul><li>When the article was AfD'd, they took it very personally, as indicated by their initial response on their talk page expressing exasperation and questioning the nominator's motives (<a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=&diff=prev&oldid=1258177179">diff</a>).</li> <li>Posted <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Dachuna&diff=prev&oldid=1258178345">this patronizing comment</a> suggesting that non-historians shouldn't weigh in on historicity of the subject (deeply ironic not only because I am a historian, but because the nomination explicitly cited high-quality historiography to justify deletion)</li> <li>Canvassed <a href="/wiki/User:Ealdgyth" title="User:Ealdgyth">Ealdgyth</a>—who, according to AfD stats, had not !voted in an AfD for over a year and has only !voted five times in as many years—to counter a perceived conspiracy of <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1248585704"><q class="inline-quote-talk">deletionists</q> (<a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=&diff=prev&oldid=1258179198">diff</a>)</li> <li>When confronted about this uncivil behavior, they respond by deleting it as <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1248585704"><q class="inline-quote-talk">trolling</q> (<a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=&diff=prev&oldid=1258198581">diff</a>)</li></ul> Deacon of Pndapetzim recently increased their participation on the project after an extended lull in contributions. I think they should be admonished and instructed to relearn the relevant policies. ~ <a href="/wiki/User:Pbritti" title="User:Pbritti">Pbritti</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Pbritti" title="User talk:Pbritti">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Pbritti-20241118184300-Deacon_of_Pndapetzim" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:43, 18 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-115" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>Pbritti is evidently very unhappy that I informed Ealdgyth of the discussion and how Ealdgyth responded. Ealdgyth is as far as I'm aware the main editor on medieval English religious topics. Pbritti seems to have come here trying to escalate things & create drama following <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia%3AArticles_for_deletion%2FDachuna&diff=1258203979&oldid=1258200361">a threat to do so that he made on the discussion page</a>. Also, if anyone wants to explain what canvassing actually is to this user please feel free. <a href="/wiki/User:Deacon_of_Pndapetzim" title="User:Deacon of Pndapetzim">Deacon of Pndapetzim</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Deacon_of_Pndapetzim" title="User talk:Deacon of Pndapetzim">Talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Deacon_of_Pndapetzim-20241118184800-Pbritti-20241118184300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:48, 18 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-116" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>Posting a non-neutral note seeking to affect the outcome of a discussion is canvassing per <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:INAPPNOTE" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:INAPPNOTE">WP:INAPPNOTE</a>. Your comments were also not very civil and anyone can participate in a discussion, notwithstanding whether they're professional historians. <a href="/wiki/User:Voorts" title="User:Voorts">voorts</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Voorts" title="User talk:Voorts">talk</a>/<a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Voorts" title="Special:Contributions/Voorts">contributions</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Voorts-20241118190400-Deacon_of_Pndapetzim-20241118184800" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:04, 18 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-117" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>Nope. Read 'It is perfectly acceptable to notify other editors of ongoing discussions, provided that it be done with the intent to improve the quality of the discussion by broadening participation' That's what I intended to do and what I did. Not discussing this point any more, it's silly to suggest that one cannot inform other interested users and note their own concerns, esp. when the guideline page actually encourages it. <a href="/wiki/User:Deacon_of_Pndapetzim" title="User:Deacon of Pndapetzim">Deacon of Pndapetzim</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Deacon_of_Pndapetzim" title="User talk:Deacon of Pndapetzim">Talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Deacon_of_Pndapetzim-20241118192800-Voorts-20241118190400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:28, 18 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-118" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>(Lest I be extremely hypocritical, I'll note that I saw this discussion mentioned in passing on Discord, but participated on my own accord without being asked :p) That's a very select quote from the canvassing policy, and ignores the context of the rest of the page. Ealdgyth is certainly an accomplished editor in the field, but you informed her and only her in a clearly biased way and urged her to participate on your side of the argument. There's miles between that and popping in with a "Hey, there's an AfD in your area of expertise" without commentary. <a href="/wiki/User:Generalissima" title="User:Generalissima">Generalissima</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Generalissima" title="User talk:Generalissima">talk</a>) (it/she) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Generalissima-20241118193600-Deacon_of_Pndapetzim-20241118192800" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:36, 18 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-119" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>What?! Selective? It's from the top of the page my friend, summarising the most important points. If you disagree with it, go try and have it removed, then and there I think you will learn what the actual consensus about the policy is. If you are successful, come back. <a href="/wiki/User:Deacon_of_Pndapetzim" title="User:Deacon of Pndapetzim">Deacon of Pndapetzim</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Deacon_of_Pndapetzim" title="User talk:Deacon of Pndapetzim">Talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Deacon_of_Pndapetzim-20241118195100-Generalissima-20241118193600" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:51, 18 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-120" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>From lower down the page: <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1248585704"><q class="inline-quote-talk"><a href="/wiki/Campaign_advertising" title="Campaign advertising">Campaigning</a> is an attempt to sway the person reading the message, conveyed through the use of tone, wording, or intent. While this may be appropriate as part of a specific individual discussion, it is inappropriate to canvass with such messages.</q> See also <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:VOTESTACKING" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:VOTESTACKING">WP:VOTESTACKING</a>: <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1248585704"><q class="inline-quote-talk">Votestacking is an attempt to sway consensus by selectively notifying editors who have or are thought to have a predetermined point of view or opinion (which may be determined, among other ways, from a userpage notice, such as a <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Userboxes" title="Wikipedia:Userboxes">userbox</a>, or from <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:User_categories" title="Wikipedia:User categories">user categorization</a>), and thus encouraging them to participate in the discussion.</q> <a href="/wiki/User:Voorts" title="User:Voorts">voorts</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Voorts" title="User talk:Voorts">talk</a>/<a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Voorts" title="Special:Contributions/Voorts">contributions</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Voorts-20241118200000-Deacon_of_Pndapetzim-20241118195100" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:00, 18 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-121" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd><dl><dd><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:IDIDNTHEARTHAT" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:IDIDNTHEARTHAT">WP:IDIDNTHEARTHAT</a> vibes here, getting a bit robotic as well. It is perfectly acceptable to notify other editors of ongoing discussions, provided that it be done with the intent to improve the quality of the discussion by broadening participation Posting to Ealdgyth was not canvassing or vote stacking, Pbritti may not see it like that because of what Ealdgyth ended up saying but that doesn't change anything. <a href="/wiki/User:Deacon_of_Pndapetzim" title="User:Deacon of Pndapetzim">Deacon of Pndapetzim</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Deacon_of_Pndapetzim" title="User talk:Deacon of Pndapetzim">Talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Deacon_of_Pndapetzim-20241118200700-Voorts-20241118200000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:07, 18 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-122" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>Quoting <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:AGF" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:AGF">WP:AGF</a> while question another editor's motivations for a reasonable AfD and then quoting <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:IDIDNTHEARTHAT" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:IDIDNTHEARTHAT">WP:IDIDNTHEARTHAT</a> when nobody is convinced by your misinterpretation of policy. I change my recommended response to this from a formal warning to favoring thanking Deacon for their 16 years as admin and desysoping. ~ <a href="/wiki/User:Pbritti" title="User:Pbritti">Pbritti</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Pbritti" title="User talk:Pbritti">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Pbritti-20241118201200-Deacon_of_Pndapetzim-20241118200700" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:12, 18 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-123" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>Admins can't desysop another admin: that proposal needs to be handled by ArbCom or recall. <a href="/wiki/User:Voorts" title="User:Voorts">voorts</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Voorts" title="User talk:Voorts">talk</a>/<a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Voorts" title="Special:Contributions/Voorts">contributions</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Voorts-20241118201600-Pbritti-20241118201200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:16, 18 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-124" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="outdent-template" style="position:relative;left:1px;"></div>Unless there's a huge reform in their behavior, I think we're heading there. ~ <a href="/wiki/User:Pbritti" title="User:Pbritti">Pbritti</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Pbritti" title="User talk:Pbritti">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Pbritti-20241118201800-Deacon_of_Pndapetzim" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:18, 18 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-125" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>I'm sad that you dislike me so much, but I can tell you one thing from being here 20 years, Pbritti, conflict forum escalation and grievance drama mongering will only take you so far and eventually bring you more trouble than it's worth. Only the Machiavellians & folk with no interest in content get on with people 100% of the time. <a href="/wiki/User:Deacon_of_Pndapetzim" title="User:Deacon of Pndapetzim">Deacon of Pndapetzim</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Deacon_of_Pndapetzim" title="User talk:Deacon of Pndapetzim">Talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Deacon_of_Pndapetzim-20241118202800-Pbritti-20241118201800" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:28, 18 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-126" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>Please stop assuming anything about me. You have accused me of a number of things yet haven't provided evidence for any of it. I encourage you focus on your behavior and how you can adopt current policy/guidelines into your behavior on-project. Thank you for your years of content creation. ~ <a href="/wiki/User:Pbritti" title="User:Pbritti">Pbritti</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Pbritti" title="User talk:Pbritti">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Pbritti-20241118205300-Deacon_of_Pndapetzim-20241118202800" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:53, 18 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-127" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd></dl></dd></dl> <ul><li>(after edit conflict) I'm going to repeat my comment I made at Deacon's talk page <a href="/wiki/Special:Diff/1258197301" title="Special:Diff/1258197301">here</a> "I have Deacon's talk page watchlisted, I was already aware of the AfD (I saw it in my morning reading of my watchlist over breakfast before Deacon posted on my talk page). I had planned to weigh in, but I had to feed farm animals and batten down the hatches this morning in front of a large storm headed my way." I'll further note I had noticed the prod notices and even before the AfD was filed, was predicting that one would be filed and had begun to look at the article during my overnight bout of insomnia (where, I also weighed in on Barkeep's talk page on a totally unrelated matter, thus confirming I was actually up at some ungodly hour of the morning), before Deacon posted on my talk page. <a href="/wiki/User:Ealdgyth" title="User:Ealdgyth">Ealdgyth</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Ealdgyth" title="User talk:Ealdgyth">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Ealdgyth-20241118185200-Pbritti-20241118201800" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:52, 18 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-128" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>You proved nothing except that you only intervened in this AfD once prompted. Rather humorously, you even mirrored Deacon's unusual !vote of <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1248585704"><q class="inline-quote-talk">Oppose</q> (rather than a typical "Keep") further suggesting that your involvement is reliant on Deacon's prompting. ~ <a href="/wiki/User:Pbritti" title="User:Pbritti">Pbritti</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Pbritti" title="User talk:Pbritti">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Pbritti-20241118185800-Ealdgyth-20241118185200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:58, 18 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-129" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>What I see from DoP: a mild mannered exasperated response to an AFD; the comment about 'historians' was not patronising; the 'canvass' message was just (just!) the right side of breaching CANVASS, but in any event the person who was targeted has said they were not actually canvassed; and I can totally understand why they removed your talk page post (which was patronising), but describing it as 'trolling' was inappropriate.</dd> <dd>All in all I'd politely suggest DoP take a deep breath in future when dealing with similar situations, but that's about it. <a href="/wiki/User:GiantSnowman" title="User:GiantSnowman">Giant</a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:GiantSnowman" title="User talk:GiantSnowman">Snowman</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-GiantSnowman-20241118190300-Pbritti-20241118185800" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:03, 18 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-130" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>The comment about historians was absolutely patronizing and completely improper: an admin should not tell editors they can't participate in a deletion discussion because they're not specialists in a particular area. <a href="/wiki/User:Voorts" title="User:Voorts">voorts</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Voorts" title="User talk:Voorts">talk</a>/<a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Voorts" title="Special:Contributions/Voorts">contributions</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Voorts-20241118190500-GiantSnowman-20241118190300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:05, 18 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-131" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>No-one should tell editors they shouldn't comment on a particular area, doesn't matter if they are an admin or not. <a href="/wiki/User:Deacon_of_Pndapetzim" title="User:Deacon of Pndapetzim">Deacon of Pndapetzim</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Deacon_of_Pndapetzim" title="User talk:Deacon of Pndapetzim">Talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Deacon_of_Pndapetzim-20241118192100-Voorts-20241118190500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:21, 18 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-132" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd><dl><dd>Posting templated 'warnings' on the pages of experienced users, it's patronising but trolling too surely, at least with a lower case 't'. What good can any experienced user reasonably expect except to arouse some sort of emotional reaction? Re the historian comment, no it has nothing to do with do not participate, it was a response to naive assertions about the historical issues relating to the talk. I did not act with any admin powers on that thread so I don't understand this obsession with me having the mop. I'm honest and sometimes tough in my approach to those things, I got my mop with that being a well established thing about me. <a href="/wiki/User:Deacon_of_Pndapetzim" title="User:Deacon of Pndapetzim">Deacon of Pndapetzim</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Deacon_of_Pndapetzim" title="User talk:Deacon of Pndapetzim">Talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Deacon_of_Pndapetzim-20241118191400-Deacon_of_Pndapetzim-20241118192100" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:14, 18 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-133" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>neither Pbritti nor i posted any templated warnings on your talk page - i don't generally do that, and prefer to use my own words when there's an issue, as i did in this case. i PRODed and nominated the article for deletion with <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Twinkle" title="Wikipedia:Twinkle">WP:Twinkle</a>, which automatically places notice templates on the creator's talk page. those are not warnings. ... <a href="/wiki/User:Sawyer777" title="User:Sawyer777">sawyer</a> * he/they * <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Sawyer777" title="User talk:Sawyer777">talk</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Sawyer777-20241118191800-Deacon_of_Pndapetzim-20241118191400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:18, 18 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-134" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd> <dd>More than that, I explicitly avoided a template and anny of those garish warning signs, even offering my appreciation for your return to content work in my personalized message. ~ <a href="/wiki/User:Pbritti" title="User:Pbritti">Pbritti</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Pbritti" title="User talk:Pbritti">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Pbritti-20241118192900-Deacon_of_Pndapetzim-20241118191400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:29, 18 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-135" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>I did notice the offering of appreciation, but it was accompanied by the 'warning' header and more trollish stuff, and I felt you were trying to escalate conflict, so I removed it and I would also remove other such comments in future if I felt the same way, it's my talk page I'm entitled to do that. <a href="/wiki/User:Deacon_of_Pndapetzim" title="User:Deacon of Pndapetzim">Deacon of Pndapetzim</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Deacon_of_Pndapetzim" title="User talk:Deacon of Pndapetzim">Talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Deacon_of_Pndapetzim-20241118194000-Pbritti-20241118192900" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:40, 18 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-136" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>What, exactly, was <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1248585704"><q class="inline-quote-talk">trollish</q>? That seems like a pretty serious <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Aspersion" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:Aspersion">aspersion</a>. ~ <a href="/wiki/User:Pbritti" title="User:Pbritti">Pbritti</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Pbritti" title="User talk:Pbritti">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Pbritti-20241118200200-Deacon_of_Pndapetzim-20241118194000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:02, 18 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-137" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd> <dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:Deacon_of_Pndapetzim" title="User:Deacon of Pndapetzim">Deacon of Pndapetzim</a> Policy expects that administrators <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:ADMINCOND" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:ADMINCOND">lead by example</a>, and they are expected to be role models for the community and to be civil at all times. Having the tools means that your words and behavior are scrutinized more because you have measurable "soft power" in discussions. While <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:NOBIGDEAL" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:NOBIGDEAL">WP:NOBIGDEAL</a> has been cited by numerous people participating in RfAs, uncivil behavior has led to admins being desysoped. Accusing someone of trolling in response to good-faith concerns about your behavior and editing their comments breaches basic policies and guidelines. <a href="/wiki/User:Fathoms_Below" title="User:Fathoms Below">Fathoms Below</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Fathoms_Below" title="User talk:Fathoms Below">(talk)</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Fathoms_Below-20241118193300-Deacon_of_Pndapetzim-20241118191400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:33, 18 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-138" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd> <dd>Also the fact that the canvassed editor intended to participate anyways is irrelevant. DoP couldn't have know that when the message was posted. <a href="/wiki/User:Voorts" title="User:Voorts">voorts</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Voorts" title="User talk:Voorts">talk</a>/<a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Voorts" title="Special:Contributions/Voorts">contributions</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Voorts-20241118190600-Voorts-20241118190500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:06, 18 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-139" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>She wasn't canvassed, why are you proceeding with that notion like it's some established fact? <a href="/wiki/User:Deacon_of_Pndapetzim" title="User:Deacon of Pndapetzim">Deacon of Pndapetzim</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Deacon_of_Pndapetzim" title="User talk:Deacon of Pndapetzim">Talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Deacon_of_Pndapetzim-20241118191600-Voorts-20241118190600" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:16, 18 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-140" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd></dl></dd> <dd>I don't interpret his comment about historians as saying 'do not participate in the AFD'. <a href="/wiki/User:GiantSnowman" title="User:GiantSnowman">Giant</a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:GiantSnowman" title="User talk:GiantSnowman">Snowman</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-GiantSnowman-20241118190700-Voorts-20241118190500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:07, 18 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-141" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>I think the statement speaks for itself: <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1248585704"><q class="inline-quote-talk">It might be useful if people here who aren't historians stop commenting on the historicity of the saint, neither of you know what you are talking about.</q> <a href="/wiki/User:Voorts" title="User:Voorts">voorts</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Voorts" title="User talk:Voorts">talk</a>/<a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Voorts" title="Special:Contributions/Voorts">contributions</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Voorts-20241118190900-GiantSnowman-20241118190700" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:09, 18 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-142" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>Evidently not. The deletion discussion wasn't about the notability of this specific saint, not the historicity; that issue was being raised in naive and unhelpful way, that's why I suggested the issue be avoided. Make sense? <a href="/wiki/User:Deacon_of_Pndapetzim" title="User:Deacon of Pndapetzim">Deacon of Pndapetzim</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Deacon_of_Pndapetzim" title="User talk:Deacon of Pndapetzim">Talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Deacon_of_Pndapetzim-20241118192500-Voorts-20241118190900" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:25, 18 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-143" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>the crux of my argument is not about the historicity of the saint - that is simply one aspect i mentioned in the nomination. the crux of my argument is the lack of sources, i.e. non-notability. ... <a href="/wiki/User:Sawyer777" title="User:Sawyer777">sawyer</a> * he/they * <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Sawyer777" title="User talk:Sawyer777">talk</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Sawyer777-20241118192800-Deacon_of_Pndapetzim-20241118192500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:28, 18 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-144" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>The historians comment wasn't about the crux. Honestly, I think that's relatively clear, but I've clarified now in case there was any confusion. <a href="/wiki/User:Deacon_of_Pndapetzim" title="User:Deacon of Pndapetzim">Deacon of Pndapetzim</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Deacon_of_Pndapetzim" title="User talk:Deacon of Pndapetzim">Talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Deacon_of_Pndapetzim-20241118193100-Sawyer777-20241118192800" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:31, 18 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-145" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd> <dd>Especially patronizing, considering that sawyer777 (who nom'd) has worked diligently in the medieval saint subject area and has contributed FA- and GA-level content. ~ <a href="/wiki/User:Pbritti" title="User:Pbritti">Pbritti</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Pbritti" title="User talk:Pbritti">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Pbritti-20241118192300-Voorts-20241118190900" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:23, 18 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-146" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></li> <li>i said i would disengage until further prompted, and apparently here's my prompting. i nominated the article for deletion earlier today after my PROD was contested yesterday, and during the discussion (& on user talk pages) Deacon has made comments such as:</li></ul> <dl><dd><ul><li>"this selective attempt to impose deletionist maximalism" (<a href="/wiki/Special:Diff/1258199133" title="Special:Diff/1258199133">diff</a>)</li> <li>"The deletionists going for the kill here could be emboldened to go after a lot more" (<a href="/wiki/Special:Diff/1258179198" title="Special:Diff/1258179198">diff</a>)</li> <li>"It might be useful if people here who aren't historians stop commenting on the historicity of the saint, you don't know what you are talking about." twice (<a href="/wiki/Special:Diff/1258182286" title="Special:Diff/1258182286">diff</a>, <a href="/wiki/Special:Diff/1258177539" title="Special:Diff/1258177539">diff</a>)</li> <li>"if you want to call yourself a historian" ... "I'm sorry if this hurts your feelings but this is a public encyclopedia used by millions of people and the lack of relevant competence is important" (<a href="/wiki/Special:Diff/1258200361" title="Special:Diff/1258200361">diff</a>)</li> <li>"I didn't want this discussion to have no input from knowledgable people & just be me and the two of you" (<a href="/wiki/Special:Diff/1258204607" title="Special:Diff/1258204607">diff</a>)</li></ul></dd> <dd>i left Deacon <a href="/wiki/Special:Diff/1258202903" title="Special:Diff/1258202903">a message</a> regarding his conduct, and he both edited my comment and replied in the same <a href="/wiki/Special:Diff/1258203706" title="Special:Diff/1258203706">diff</a> (edit summary: "rm trolling & ugly format, resp"), which changed the meaning significantly by cutting out multiple sentences. i <a href="/wiki/Special:Diff/1258205538" title="Special:Diff/1258205538">restored</a> my comment and linked <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:OTHERSCOMMENTS" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:OTHERSCOMMENTS">WP:OTHERSCOMMENTS</a>, and was <a href="/wiki/Special:Diff/1258206053" title="Special:Diff/1258206053">reverted</a> with the edit summary "rv, please don't troll or put ugly format on my talkpage. if you think your meaning has been changed remove the comment". that's not how this works. i am not imposing "deletionist maximalism" or "going for the kill" i just don't think this supposed saint is notable. speculating about my competence, accusing me of trolling, and editing my comments is creating a hostile editing environment. ... <a href="/wiki/User:Sawyer777" title="User:Sawyer777">sawyer</a> * he/they * <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Sawyer777" title="User talk:Sawyer777">talk</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Sawyer777-20241118190900-Pbritti-20241118201800" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:09, 18 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-147" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>forgot one: <ul><li>"Regarding being a historian, I don't care if you're not a historian [...] I made the comment because you were saying nonsense things about something that is much more complex than you seemed to understand. Personally I think if one is editing articles on a project like this one should be [...] honest about where and how one can contribute competently." (<a href="/wiki/Special:Diff/1258203706" title="Special:Diff/1258203706">diff</a>)</li></ul></dd> <dd>i don't even know how to engage with this. ... <a href="/wiki/User:Sawyer777" title="User:Sawyer777">sawyer</a> * he/they * <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Sawyer777" title="User talk:Sawyer777">talk</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Sawyer777-20241118194200-Sawyer777-20241118190900" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:42, 18 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-148" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>It's certainly inappropriate to edit another user's message, and it's even more inappropriate to accuse an editor of good standing, making a good faith edit, to be trolling. <a href="/wiki/User:Hey_man_im_josh" title="User:Hey man im josh">Hey man im josh</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Hey_man_im_josh" title="User talk:Hey man im josh">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Hey_man_im_josh-20241118205100-Sawyer777-20241118194200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:51, 18 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-149" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>This is astonishingly poor behaviour. -- <a href="/wiki/User:Asilvering" title="User:Asilvering">asilvering</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Asilvering" title="User talk:Asilvering">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Asilvering-20241118232200-Hey_man_im_josh-20241118205100" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:22, 18 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-150" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd> <dd>No comment on the article (here), but I think that <a href="/wiki/User:Deacon_of_Pndapetzim" title="User:Deacon of Pndapetzim">Deacon of Pndapetzim</a> should probably re-calibrate back into the relative obscurity they have enjoyed for most of the past, err, 12 years. Community expectations of discourse, collegiality and communication may have moved on since then. <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Serial_Number_54129" title="User talk:Serial Number 54129">SerialNumber</a><a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Serial_Number_54129" title="Special:Contributions/Serial Number 54129">54129</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Serial_Number_54129-20241119135500-Hey_man_im_josh-20241118205100" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">13:55, 19 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-151" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <ul><li>I'm not sure what the goal is here with this complaint. Is it to admonish Deacon of Pndapetzim and ask them to be more civil, to not give the appearance of canvassing or be condescending, to not accuse your fellow editors of trolling and to assume good faith on their part? Deacon of Pndapetzim, even if you don't agree with these charges, do not do those things in the future. None of us should behave in these ways and this complaint is a reminder of this to us all that even in the midst of a dispute, we need to treat each other with respect and civility.</li></ul> <dl><dd>If the goal is to de-sysop them, well, you would have to show a pattern of misconduct, Pbritti, and while some of the behavior cited here is inappropriate, for a regular editor or for an admin, I don't think you have shown misconduct beyond their reaction to this one AFD. Additionally, at most, if there was a lot of agreement with your position, there might be a recommendation to take this complaint to arbitration or to start a recall petition but so far, I don't see a groundswell of support here yet and I don't think either a request for arbitration or a recall effort would be successful. <a href="/wiki/User:Liz" title="User:Liz">Liz</a> <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Liz" title="Special:Contributions/Liz">Read!</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Liz" title="User talk:Liz">Talk!</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Liz-20241118202100-Pbritti-20241118201800" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:21, 18 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-152" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>I believe the focus is the civility, the implication that only historians should participate in that discussion, and the canvassing. At least that's my read of it. In my opinion, you do want complaints prior to recalls, so as to not appear to be jumping the gun and to give an admin a chance to grow and adjust based on feedback given. <a href="/wiki/User:Hey_man_im_josh" title="User:Hey man im josh">Hey man im josh</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Hey_man_im_josh" title="User talk:Hey man im josh">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Hey_man_im_josh-20241118204100-Liz-20241118202100" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:41, 18 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-153" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>HMIJ summarizes my rationale for opening the AN. Without this posted to AN, there would be no formal acknowledgment of their inappropriate behavior. I think Deacon's persistent refusal to acknowledge that their behavior was inappropriate here suggests their status as an admin should be changed. Above, I say that a reform in their behavior could prevent this step, but it should happen sooner than later. ~ <a href="/wiki/User:Pbritti" title="User:Pbritti">Pbritti</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Pbritti" title="User talk:Pbritti">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Pbritti-20241118204900-Hey_man_im_josh-20241118204100" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:49, 18 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-154" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>I'm also finding their inappropriate edit summaries (stating a genuine comment by an editor in good standing is trolling), and editing other user's comments to be very inappropriate. <a href="/wiki/User:Hey_man_im_josh" title="User:Hey man im josh">Hey man im josh</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Hey_man_im_josh" title="User talk:Hey man im josh">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Hey_man_im_josh-20241118205000-Pbritti-20241118204900" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:50, 18 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-155" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd></dl></dd> <dd>Hello, <a href="/wiki/User:Hey_man_im_josh" title="User:Hey man im josh">Josh</a>, I hope it didn't seem like I was trying to shut down a discussion. That wasn't my intent. But I think it's helpful to know why a complaint is filed, what the goal of it is. If it is bringing to light misbehavior, I thought that had been accomplished early in this discussion. If the goal was seeking to de-sysop this administrator, then this is the wrong place for that discussion. But I do agree that, for arbitration, editors are advised to try other avenues for redress before opening an arbitration case request. <a href="/wiki/User:Liz" title="User:Liz">Liz</a> <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Liz" title="Special:Contributions/Liz">Read!</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Liz" title="User talk:Liz">Talk!</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Liz-20241119051300-Hey_man_im_josh-20241118204100" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">05:13, 19 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-156" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>No, I definitely didn't view that as the intent of your message @<a href="/wiki/User:Liz" title="User:Liz">Liz</a>, especially given our past interactions I know better than to assume something like that from you. I just wanted to share my perspective on the matter. <a href="/wiki/User:Hey_man_im_josh" title="User:Hey man im josh">Hey man im josh</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Hey_man_im_josh" title="User talk:Hey man im josh">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Hey_man_im_josh-20241119131700-Liz-20241119051300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">13:17, 19 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-157" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd> <dd>The complaint is presumably targeted at getting consensus that obvious incivility and canvassing is in appropriate, and below community expectations. We shouldn't create the expectation that the next step after bringing to light misbehavior is recall. <a href="/wiki/User:Chipmunkdavis" title="User:Chipmunkdavis">CMD</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Chipmunkdavis" title="User talk:Chipmunkdavis">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Chipmunkdavis-20241119142900-Liz-20241119051300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">14:29, 19 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-158" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd> <dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:Liz" title="User:Liz">Liz</a>, I think the goal was articulated at the end of the initial post: <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1248585704"><q class="inline-quote-talk">I think they should be admonished and instructed to relearn the relevant policies.</q> -- <a href="/wiki/User:Asilvering" title="User:Asilvering">asilvering</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Asilvering" title="User talk:Asilvering">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Asilvering-20241119181200-Liz-20241119051300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:12, 19 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-159" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <ul><li>I have to concur Deacon of Pndapetzim's comments in the AfD fall below the collegial standards I think we should strive to maintain in discussions. Comments should be about the arguments, not the participants. (I do admit this might be easy for me to say from the sidelines, especially as someone who is more of a reader than someone who writes content.)Regarding <a href="/wiki/Special:Diff/1258179198" title="Special:Diff/1258179198">the comment DoP sent to Ealdgyth</a>, to me it clearly crosses the line into non-neutral. There's no reason not to say simply "As someone interested in and knowledgeable about the topic area, you might be interested in participating in this AfD"; arguments about the precedent and consequences of deletion can and should be made in the discussion itself.While I do offer my feedback in the hope DoP changes his approach, some of the back-and-forth discussion above doesn't necessarily seem to be benefiting anyone. Talking about RECALL also seems excessive at this time. <a href="/wiki/User:Retro" title="User:Retro">Retro</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Retro#top" title="User talk:Retro">talk</a> | <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Retro" title="Special:Contributions/Retro">contribs</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Retro-20241118204700-Pbritti-20241118201800" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:47, 18 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-160" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>I actually think the discussion is at the right time, given the number of different issues that are evident conduct wise. RECALL may be premature, but you should start a discussion about someone's conduct before doing so, and this is the opportunity for DoP to adjust their behaviour appropriately. Unfortunately, their responses are falling quite short of <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:ADMINCOND" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:ADMINCOND">WP:ADMINCOND</a> at this point in time. <a href="/wiki/User:Hey_man_im_josh" title="User:Hey man im josh">Hey man im josh</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Hey_man_im_josh" title="User talk:Hey man im josh">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Hey_man_im_josh-20241118205300-Retro-20241118204700" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:53, 18 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-161" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd></dl></li></ul> <dl><dd><dl><dd>Feel like there's a meme here</dd> <dd>Wikipedia: Why are there so few admins, this is a crisis.</dd> <dd>Also Wikipedia: That guy told someone about a discussion & someone felt attacked, they're an admin, get them to the stake.</dd> <dd>I feel like defending myself had just been feeding the drama beast, I'll leave this be, please don't tag me in any posts unless it is necessary. <a href="/wiki/User:Deacon_of_Pndapetzim" title="User:Deacon of Pndapetzim">Deacon of Pndapetzim</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Deacon_of_Pndapetzim" title="User talk:Deacon of Pndapetzim">Talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Deacon_of_Pndapetzim-20241118210300-Retro-20241118204700" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:03, 18 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-162" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:Deacon_of_Pndapetzim" title="User:Deacon of Pndapetzim">Deacon of Pndapetzim</a> Is this how you intend to respond when people raise questions about your conduct in future? <a href="/wiki/User:GreenLipstickLesbian" title="User:GreenLipstickLesbian">GreenLipstickLesbian</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:GreenLipstickLesbian" title="User talk:GreenLipstickLesbian">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-GreenLipstickLesbian-20241118210500-Deacon_of_Pndapetzim-20241118210300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:05, 18 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-163" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:Deacon_of_Pndapetzim" title="User:Deacon of Pndapetzim">Deacon of Pndapetzim</a> I'm asking you again, since you have apparently chosen not to respond. Is this the way which you intend to conduct yourself when people raise questions about your behaviour in the future? This is a yes or no question. <a href="/wiki/User:GreenLipstickLesbian" title="User:GreenLipstickLesbian">GreenLipstickLesbian</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:GreenLipstickLesbian" title="User talk:GreenLipstickLesbian">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-GreenLipstickLesbian-20241119035800-GreenLipstickLesbian-20241118210500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">03:58, 19 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-164" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd></dl></dd> <dd>Whether on wiki or in real life, perhaps you should consider taking criticism to heart and hearing people out instead of being dismissive @<a href="/wiki/User:Deacon_of_Pndapetzim" title="User:Deacon of Pndapetzim">Deacon of Pndapetzim</a>. Fwiw, part of the reason people believe there's not a need for more admins (a view I disagree with) is because so many old admins hold onto tools but don't utilize them, hence the misleading number of admins vs active admin numbers we have. <a href="/wiki/User:Hey_man_im_josh" title="User:Hey man im josh">Hey man im josh</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Hey_man_im_josh" title="User talk:Hey man im josh">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Hey_man_im_josh-20241118211100-Deacon_of_Pndapetzim-20241118210300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:11, 18 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-165" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> Without evaluating the whole thread, I will renew a concern I've expressed before about overbroad use of the anti-canvassing guideline. I understand the purpose of the guideline, but it should not be interpreted to prevent bringing a discussion to the attention of the people best able to comment knowledgeably. For comparison, I am a known authority on the author Rex Stout. If someone proposed deleting an article relating to Stout and I missed the AfD notice, I would like to be told about it; and if I then commented, I would not feel that either I or anyone else did anything wrong. Likewise, if an AfD concerns a disputed personage in medieval history, why would we want to disallow seeking input from a major contributor to our medieval history articles? <a href="/wiki/User:Newyorkbrad" title="User:Newyorkbrad">Newyorkbrad</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Newyorkbrad" title="User talk:Newyorkbrad">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Newyorkbrad-20241118212000-Deacon_of_Pndapetzim" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:20, 18 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-166" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>You do make a good point, but the biggest issue in this notification is the non-neutral way in which it was done. <a href="/wiki/User:Hey_man_im_josh" title="User:Hey man im josh">Hey man im josh</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Hey_man_im_josh" title="User talk:Hey man im josh">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Hey_man_im_josh-20241118213000-Newyorkbrad-20241118212000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:30, 18 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-167" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd> <dd>just speaking for myself, i have no issues per se with him notifying Ealdgyth - she is, as you say, a major contributor in the medieval history area (and someone i have a lot of respect for). the issue Pbritti and others have taken with the talk page message is the tone and content, especially the parts that say <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1248585704"><q class="inline-quote-talk">I'm pretty worried about the level and type of reasoning being used and the precedent potentially being added</q> and <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1248585704"><q class="inline-quote-talk">The deletionists going for the kill here could be emboldened to go after a lot more, including the many place-filler bishop articles we've created over the years.</q> in my view, that clearly indicates an intent to bring a "friendly" editor to be backup in a debate, rather than a simple notification of a relevant discussion. it's a fine line, and i agree that it's not uncommon to see overzealousness with the anti-canvassing guideline, but i do think this crosses into problematic territory. ... <a href="/wiki/User:Sawyer777" title="User:Sawyer777">sawyer</a> * he/they * <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Sawyer777" title="User talk:Sawyer777">talk</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Sawyer777-20241118213100-Newyorkbrad-20241118212000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:31, 18 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-168" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>I would not have phrased the notification with words like "going for the kill," nor would I have made any reference to "trolling." However, much of what was said on the user talkpage could equally have been said in the deletion discussion itself, which the "canvassed" editor would have looked at anyway, so I don't see why the location of the comments should make a big difference. And a comment suggesting that "if A is deleted, then by that logic B, C, and D could be deleted on the same grounds, which would damage our coverage of such-and-such topic-area" is hardly outside the limits of normal XfD discussion. <a href="/wiki/User:Newyorkbrad" title="User:Newyorkbrad">Newyorkbrad</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Newyorkbrad" title="User talk:Newyorkbrad">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Newyorkbrad-20241118215300-Sawyer777-20241118213100" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:53, 18 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-169" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>You're assuming that Deacon knew the canvassed editor would see the AfD anyway, which is contradicted by the mere fact that they posted that notice. This is exacerbated by the uncivil responses both before and after the canvassing. ~ <a href="/wiki/User:Pbritti" title="User:Pbritti">Pbritti</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Pbritti" title="User talk:Pbritti">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Pbritti-20241118215700-Newyorkbrad-20241118215300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:57, 18 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-170" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>I'm actually assuming that even if the canvassed editor might have missed the AfD notice to begin with, once it was mentioned to her, she would then have looked at the contents of the AFD discussion regardless of how the notice was phrased. <a href="/wiki/User:Newyorkbrad" title="User:Newyorkbrad">Newyorkbrad</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Newyorkbrad" title="User talk:Newyorkbrad">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Newyorkbrad-20241118220400-Pbritti-20241118215700" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:04, 18 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-171" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>Are you saying this isn't canvassing because a non-neutral notice posted to a friendly editor's talk page might spur the friendly editor to look at the discussion and then get involved? That is canvassing. ~ <a href="/wiki/User:Pbritti" title="User:Pbritti">Pbritti</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Pbritti" title="User talk:Pbritti">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Pbritti-20241118220900-Newyorkbrad-20241118220400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:09, 18 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-172" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>I took Brad to be saying that this is ideally how the canvassing rules should be interpreted or rewritten (but please correct me if I'm wrong Brad). I'm agnostic on that point and could be persuaded either way, but as of this moment, I don't think the community interprets CANVAS this way. <a href="/wiki/User:Voorts" title="User:Voorts">voorts</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Voorts" title="User talk:Voorts">talk</a>/<a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Voorts" title="Special:Contributions/Voorts">contributions</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Voorts-20241118221200-Pbritti-20241118220900" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:12, 18 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-173" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd> <dd>(e/c) I understand your point, which has some validity under the guideline. But the point I'm making is that the effect of a "neutral" notification and a "non-neutral" notification, at least in this instance, would have been exactly the same, so whether or not the notice was "canvassing" strikes me as a peripheral aspect of the discussion. Put differently, if the editor posted "ABCD" in the notification, as opposed to posting "A" in the notification and "BCD" in the AfD itself, would that have changed the analysis? (And with that I may bow out of the discussion, lest I give too much attention to what I've just said should be a minor aspect of the thread.) <a href="/wiki/User:Newyorkbrad" title="User:Newyorkbrad">Newyorkbrad</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Newyorkbrad" title="User talk:Newyorkbrad">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Newyorkbrad-20241118221400-Pbritti-20241118220900" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:14, 18 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-174" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>Ah, this makes sense. I think I disagree with you on the idea that a neutral notice has the same effect as a non-neutral one (especially when it is only sent to a single friendly editor), but I can fully see why you might feel otherwise. Thanks for taking the time to rephrase that for me! ~ <a href="/wiki/User:Pbritti" title="User:Pbritti">Pbritti</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Pbritti" title="User talk:Pbritti">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Pbritti-20241118221600-Newyorkbrad-20241118221400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:16, 18 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-175" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> I'm not really a fan of bringing to a noticeboard every example of someone getting upset that the article they've created is at AFD, but ... DoP is being so pointlessly aggressive, unfair, and patronizing here (and it's likely to end up being counter-productive to keeping the article), that I guess I can't really fault it too much. I suppose I'll say (a) DoP and his adversaries (for lack of a better word) should minimize contact outside the AFD, including here; and (b) if his aggression continues in the AFD, I'll just partially block him from participating there further. I've got it watchlisted now. The non-neutral canvassing, while not great, is less of a concern to me, both for reasons outlined by NYB, and because not every single policy violation needs to be admonished/punished. I know @<a href="/wiki/User:Deacon_of_Pndapetzim" title="User:Deacon of Pndapetzim">Deacon of Pndapetzim</a>: asked not to be pinged unnecessarily, but since I'm warning him that I might block him from the AFD, I guess I need to. Sorry. --<a href="/wiki/User:Floquenbeam" title="User:Floquenbeam">Floquenbeam</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Floquenbeam" title="User talk:Floquenbeam">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Floquenbeam-20241118232300-Deacon_of_Pndapetzim" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:23, 18 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-176" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>I've created over 1000 articles, I don't actually mind if an article I created is deleted per se, esp. one that short, you're speculating inaccurately. The users in question were making historical points based on some serious misunderstandings, I could've spent more time explaining if I wasn't so busy earlier today (honestly thought it would be nipped in the bud earlier) and if I'd been nicer there wouldn't have been so much escalation on their part, but it's neither here not there as far as the Dachuna discussion is concerned. I'm not going to participate in that discussion any more because I have been threatened by yourself and based on your assessment above I don't trust you to be judicious. <a href="/wiki/User:Deacon_of_Pndapetzim" title="User:Deacon of Pndapetzim">Deacon of Pndapetzim</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Deacon_of_Pndapetzim" title="User talk:Deacon of Pndapetzim">Talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Deacon_of_Pndapetzim-20241119003100-Floquenbeam-20241118232300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:31, 19 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-177" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>Further assumptions of bad faith, despite several comments encouraging others to assume good faith in the last day or so... <a href="/wiki/User:Hey_man_im_josh" title="User:Hey man im josh">Hey man im josh</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Hey_man_im_josh" title="User talk:Hey man im josh">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Hey_man_im_josh-20241119030300-Deacon_of_Pndapetzim-20241119003100" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">03:03, 19 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-178" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd></dl></dd></dl> </section><div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section section-heading" onclick="mfTempOpenSection(10)"><h2 id="Appeal_for_Lifting_Topic_Ban" data-mw-thread-id="h-Appeal_for_Lifting_Topic_Ban-20241118222800">Appeal for Lifting Topic Ban</h2> <a role="button" href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard&action=edit&section=11" title="Edit section: Appeal for Lifting Topic Ban" class="cdx-button cdx-button--size-large cdx-button--fake-button cdx-button--fake-button--enabled cdx-button--icon-only cdx-button--weight-quiet "> edit </a> <span id='ooui-php-422' class='ext-discussiontools-init-section-overflowMenuButton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-buttonWidget' data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonMenuSelectWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"ellipsis","data":{"itemConfigs":[{"id":"edit","data":{"id":"edit"},"icon":"edit","label":"Edit"}],"resourceLoaderModules":[]},"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-section-overflowMenuButton"]}'><a role='button' tabindex='0' rel='nofollow' class='oo-ui-buttonElement-button'></a><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata">Latest comment: <a href="#c-Star_Mississippi-20241122153600-Appeal_for_Lifting_Topic_Ban">1 day ago</a>21 comments10 people in discussion</div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div><section class="mf-section-10 collapsible-block" id="mf-section-10"> <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1250141580"><div class="boilerplate archived archive-top mw-archivedtalk" style=""><link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1235681985"><div class="side-box metadata side-box-right archive-top-result" style="padding: 10px; line-height: inherit;"> <div class="side-box-flex"> <div class="side-box-text" style="padding: 0;">There is consensus against lifting the topic ban. Editor is cautioned against repeating the 2023 edits which, had they been noticed at the time, they would have been blocked for. <a href="/wiki/User:Star_Mississippi" title="User:Star Mississippi">Star</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Star_Mississippi" title="User talk:Star Mississippi">Mississippi</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Star_Mississippi-20241122153600-Appeal_for_Lifting_Topic_Ban" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:36, 22 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-179" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></div></div> </div> <div class="boilerplate-header" style="margin-left: 1.6em; font-style: italic;"> The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion. </div> <hr> Subject: Appeal for Lifting Topic Ban Dear Wikipedia Administrators, I am writing to formally request a reconsideration of the topic ban imposed on my account three years ago due to discussions on the English Wikipedia talk pages. I acknowledge that my use of language at the time was inappropriate and that I made amateurish mistakes. These errors stemmed from a lack of experience and familiarity with Wikipedia's standards and guidelines. Over the past three years, I have actively worked on improving my skills in both editing and communication, as well as my proficiency in English. During this time, I have consistently contributed to the Turkish Wikipedia, adhering to its standards and guidelines. This experience has not only enhanced my understanding of Wikipedia’s expectations but also reinforced my commitment to respectful and constructive collaboration. I genuinely believe that I can now contribute positively and meaningfully to the English Wikipedia. I am fully committed to abiding by Wikipedia’s principles of civility, neutrality, and verifiability. If given the opportunity, I will ensure that my contributions align with these standards and add value to the community. I kindly request you to reconsider my topic ban and allow me to demonstrate my commitment to these principles through constructive edits. I am open to further discussion and willing to comply with any additional conditions to regain editing privileges. Thank you for taking the time to review my appeal. I appreciate your consideration and look forward to your response. Sincerely, <a href="/wiki/User:Cengizsogutlu" title="User:Cengizsogutlu">Cengizsogutlu</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Cengizsogutlu" title="User talk:Cengizsogutlu">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Cengizsogutlu-20241118222800-Appeal_for_Lifting_Topic_Ban" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:28, 18 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-180" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> The notification is still on this page; <a class="external free" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Incidents&oldid=1025564072#Cengizsogutlu">https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Incidents&oldid=1025564072#Cengizsogutlu</a> <a href="/wiki/User:Cengizsogutlu" title="User:Cengizsogutlu">Cengizsogutlu</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Cengizsogutlu" title="User talk:Cengizsogutlu">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Cengizsogutlu-20241118222800-Appeal_for_Lifting_Topic_Ban-1" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:28, 18 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-181" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <ul><li>Leaning decline - no activity on en.wiki since 2023 and their last edits here were violations of the tban. Edits at tr.wiki look fine but unremarkable, and they haven't been very active there either: essentially no talk page discussions, some decent translations but they haven't even reached EC yet. Meanwhile, the appeal here doesn't even come close to fully acknowledging the issues that led first to their ban and then to repeated blocks due to violations of the ban. signed, <a href="/wiki/User:Rosguill" title="User:Rosguill">Rosguill</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Rosguill" title="User talk:Rosguill">talk</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/User:Cengizsogutlu" title="User:Cengizsogutlu">Cengizsogutlu</a>, you haven't done much editing on the English Wikipedia since your topic ban so it's hard to judge whether or not it has affected your editing here. Have you made any substantial contributions to other WikiMedia projects? <a href="/wiki/User:Liz" title="User:Liz">Liz</a> <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Liz" title="Special:Contributions/Liz">Read!</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Liz" title="User talk:Liz">Talk!</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Liz-20241119030700-Cengizsogutlu-20241118222800" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">03:07, 19 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-182" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>My current interests include military equipment, the defense industry, military history, culture, and architecture of Belgium (the country I live in). Due to a topic ban related to Turkey and the Turkish Armed Forces, I am currently unable to edit on these subjects. Additionally, Belgian-related topics are often edited by Dutch authors, even in areas where I have substantial expertise.</dd> <dd>I have contributed to Turkish Wikipedia in these areas and continue to do so. Having completed my education recently, my English has improved significantly, and I’ve also developed a hobby in photography. What I want to express is that, if given a chance, I would like to contribute edits in these fields and upload my photographs to Wikimedia.</dd> <dd>To be honest, I feel that I’ve matured with age and assure you that I will avoid engaging in childish disputes. In the near future, I plan to travel to Cyprus and Turkey, where I will attend military parades and would be grateful if I am allowed to upload historical and military-related photos from these events.</dd> <dd>Apart from this, I am also interested in participating in several WikiProjects to further contribute to Wikipedia.I intend to focus solely on technological and cultural topics without engaging in ethnic or controversial discussions. If you wish, you can monitor my future edits in these areas, and based on that, you can decide on a permanent solution.</dd> <dd>Kind regards<a href="/wiki/User:Cengizsogutlu" title="User:Cengizsogutlu">Cengizsogutlu</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Cengizsogutlu" title="User talk:Cengizsogutlu">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Cengizsogutlu-20241119060300-Liz-20241119030700" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">06:03, 19 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-183" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd></dl></li> <li>Leaning decline I blocked Cengizsogutlu for topic ban violations in 2021, but pretty much every one of the 30-odd edits they made in 2023 were also topic ban violations which no-one noticed at the time, or I suspect they would have been indefinitely blocked. Now they have returned after a year and want to edit on those topics? I would suggest we need to see continued evidence of productive editing in other areas first. <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Black_Kite" title="User talk:Black Kite">Black Kite (talk)</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Black_Kite-20241119113600-Cengizsogutlu-20241118222800" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">11:36, 19 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-184" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>Thank you for your feedback. As I mentioned above, I have very little interest or knowledge in other areas, so I can mostly contribute to Wikipedia in these specific fields. Regards. <a href="/wiki/User:Cengizsogutlu" title="User:Cengizsogutlu">Cengizsogutlu</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Cengizsogutlu" title="User talk:Cengizsogutlu">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Cengizsogutlu-20241119221500-Black_Kite-20241119113600" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:15, 19 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-185" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd></dl></li> <li>After being topic-banned from Turkey-related topics on 28 May 2021, the editor made <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3AContributions&target=Cengizsogutlu&namespace=0&tagfilter=&start=2021-05-21&end=2024-11-19&limit=500">a number of edits</a> prohibited by the ban. They appear to <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Diff/1168904999">have misunderstood the scope of their topic ban</a>, a misunderstanding which was corrected in August 2023. That was their first breach of the ban and we should assume that it was a legitimate mistake. However, they have scarcely edited since, so this appeal is coming very soon and with very little fresh editing to assess. There is no evidence that the problems with competence, unsound sourcing, and pro-Turkish POV have been addressed. It is asserted in the appeal that the user has gained a fresh understanding of our policies and that their language and editing skills have improved. However, to support that, the only edits we have are this appeal, one reply in this thread, and one translated new article. I wouldn't be comfortable overturning with just that. Decline for now. <a href="/wiki/User:Arcticocean" title="User:Arcticocean">arcticocean ■</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Arcticocean-20241119152900-Cengizsogutlu-20241118222800" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:29, 19 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-186" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></li></ul> <dl><dd><ul><li>In the block appeal from 2021, the replying admin stated very clearly that "If a topic has anything to do with Turkey at all, you cannot edit it", so they can't really say it was a misunderstanding. <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Black_Kite" title="User talk:Black Kite">Black Kite (talk)</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Black_Kite-20241120121700-Arcticocean-20241119152900" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">12:17, 20 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-187" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></li></ul></dd></dl> <ul><li><a href="/wiki/User:Cengizsogutlu" title="User:Cengizsogutlu">Cengizsogutlu</a>, your topic ban on the English Wikipedia does not apply to Wikimedia Commons. You can upload photos that you take on your upcoming trip to Cyprus and Turkey to Wikimedia Commons as long as you comply with their policies and guidelines. <a href="/wiki/User:Cullen328" title="User:Cullen328">Cullen328</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Cullen328" title="User talk:Cullen328">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Cullen328-20241119205100-Cengizsogutlu-20241118222800" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:51, 19 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-188" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>After uploading the photos I take to Wikimedia, I also want to upload them to English Wikipedia to make edits and adjustments. That’s why the photos I upload will have such a connection. The main purpose is to upload photos to support editing. Just as buying paint and a canvas but not actually painting serves no purpose, these efforts would also be ineffective. However, other users can, of course, eventually use and edit these contributions. But I believe doing both simultaneously will prevent providing an impactful contribution. Best regards. <a href="/wiki/User:Cengizsogutlu" title="User:Cengizsogutlu">Cengizsogutlu</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Cengizsogutlu" title="User talk:Cengizsogutlu">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Cengizsogutlu-20241119221100-Cullen328-20241119205100" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:11, 19 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-189" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd><a href="/wiki/User:Cengizsogutlu" title="User:Cengizsogutlu">Cengizsogutlu</a>, you can add those photos to the Turkish Wikipedia and other language versions as well. The English Wikipedia is not the "boss Wikipedia" or the "most important Wikipedia". If you establish a consistent track record of editing the English Wikipedia productively outside the areas of your topic ban, then you can come back here in six months or a year to appeal your topic ban again. <a href="/wiki/User:Cullen328" title="User:Cullen328">Cullen328</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Cullen328" title="User talk:Cullen328">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Cullen328-20241120003600-Cengizsogutlu-20241119221100" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:36, 20 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-190" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd></dl></dd></dl></li> <li>This appeal is clearly AI-generated. No. <a href="/wiki/User:Pppery" title="User:Pppery">* Pppery *</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Pppery" title="User talk:Pppery">it has begun...</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Pppery-20241120050400-Cengizsogutlu-20241118222800" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">05:04, 20 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-191" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>Not saying it is or isn't, but do you have evidence of that? <a href="/wiki/User:Buffs" title="User:Buffs">Buffs</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Buffs" title="User talk:Buffs">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Buffs-20241121194000-Pppery-20241120050400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:40, 21 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-192" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>I've run it through four different AI detectors. All agree that it was AI-generated, with a high level of confidence. One detector thinks the first couple of sentences are not AI-generated. <a rel="nofollow" class="external free" href="https://quillbot.com/ai-content-detector">https://quillbot.com/ai-content-detector</a> <a rel="nofollow" class="external free" href="https://originality.ai/ai-checker">https://originality.ai/ai-checker</a> <a rel="nofollow" class="external free" href="https://app.gptzero.me/">https://app.gptzero.me/</a> <a rel="nofollow" class="external free" href="https://copyleaks.com/ai-content-detector">https://copyleaks.com/ai-content-detector</a> — <a href="/wiki/User:Rsjaffe" title="User:Rsjaffe">rsjaffe</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Rsjaffe" title="User talk:Rsjaffe">🗣️</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Rsjaffe-20241121200500-Buffs-20241121194000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:05, 21 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-193" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>Thank you for this list, <a href="/wiki/User:Rsjaffe" title="User:Rsjaffe">rsjaffe</a>, I've never known where to go to check and see if content is likely AI-generated. <a href="/wiki/User:Liz" title="User:Liz">Liz</a> <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Liz" title="Special:Contributions/Liz">Read!</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Liz" title="User talk:Liz">Talk!</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Liz-20241122004300-Rsjaffe-20241121200500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:43, 22 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-194" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>Likewise <a href="/wiki/User:Buffs" title="User:Buffs">Buffs</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Buffs" title="User talk:Buffs">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Buffs-20241122014800-Liz-20241122004300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:48, 22 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-195" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>I get help from AI on most topics, what's wrong with using AI when expressing myself in a language that is not my native one. Is there such a rule on Wikipedia not using AI? <a href="/wiki/User:Cengizsogutlu" title="User:Cengizsogutlu">Cengizsogutlu</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Cengizsogutlu" title="User talk:Cengizsogutlu">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Cengizsogutlu-20241122042400-Buffs-20241122014800" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">04:24, 22 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-196" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>You are expressing an opinion that you "used language at the time was inappropriate and that I made amateurish mistakes". Using AI is a step down from having amateurish mistakes and will only compound them. You were topic banned for a reason, continued to dabble in that topic but no one caught you, and now you want to be unbanned. This isn't good logic and lends credence to the concerns to others that you aren't going to be productive. Cullen gives you a good path going forward. <a href="/wiki/User:Buffs" title="User:Buffs">Buffs</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Buffs" title="User talk:Buffs">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Buffs-20241122152700-Cengizsogutlu-20241122042400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:27, 22 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-197" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></li> <li>Suggest Decline. The appeal does not create confidence in this editor's ability to use the English language. I agree that the appeal feels AI-generated, but any other explanations for the tone and content of the appeal would also be worrisome. And, most of their recent edits were in violation of their TBAN. <a href="/wiki/User:Walsh90210" class="mw-redirect" title="User:Walsh90210">Walsh90210</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Walsh90210" title="User talk:Walsh90210">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Walsh90210-20241122011500-Cengizsogutlu-20241118222800" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:15, 22 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-198" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></li> <li>Decline per Pppery's evidence of AI involvement and lack of acknowledgement of the problem. <a href="/wiki/User:Buffs" title="User:Buffs">Buffs</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Buffs" title="User talk:Buffs">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Buffs-20241122014900-Cengizsogutlu-20241118222800" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:49, 22 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-199" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></li></ul> <div style="padding-left: 1.6em; font-style: italic; border-top: 1px solid #a2a9b1; margin: 0.5em 0; padding-top: 0.5em">The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.</div> </div><div style="clear:both;" class=""></div> </section><div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section section-heading" onclick="mfTempOpenSection(11)"><h2 id="TP:ACEMM_not_subbing_properly" data-mw-thread-id="h-TP:ACEMM_not_subbing_properly-20241118230300">TP:ACEMM not subbing properly</h2> <a role="button" href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard&action=edit&section=12" title="Edit section: TP:ACEMM not subbing properly" class="cdx-button cdx-button--size-large cdx-button--fake-button cdx-button--fake-button--enabled cdx-button--icon-only cdx-button--weight-quiet "> edit </a> <span id='ooui-php-423' class='ext-discussiontools-init-section-overflowMenuButton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-buttonWidget' data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonMenuSelectWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"ellipsis","data":{"itemConfigs":[{"id":"edit","data":{"id":"edit"},"icon":"edit","label":"Edit"}],"resourceLoaderModules":[]},"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-section-overflowMenuButton"]}'><a role='button' tabindex='0' rel='nofollow' class='oo-ui-buttonElement-button'></a><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata">Latest comment: <a href="#c-Cyberpower678-20241119014100-Izno-20241119011700">5 days ago</a>4 comments2 people in discussion</div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div><section class="mf-section-11 collapsible-block" id="mf-section-11"> I'm currently multitasking a bunch of stuff right now, and it would appear <code>{{<a href="/wiki/Template:ACEMM" title="Template:ACEMM">ACEMM</a>}}</code> is not substituting properly. The Ivmbox is not rendering in substitutions. I would normally debug this myself, but my hands are full right now. Could someone take a look at why this isn't working? —<a href="/wiki/User:Cyberpower678" title="User:Cyberpower678">CYBERPOWER</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Cyberpower678" title="User talk:Cyberpower678">Message</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Cyberpower678-20241118230300-TP:ACEMM_not_subbing_properly" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:03, 18 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:Izno" title="User:Izno">Izno</a>: since you work on this template mostly, can you check why it's not substing correctly?—<a href="/wiki/User:Cyberpower678" title="User:Cyberpower678">CYBERPOWER</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Cyberpower678" title="User talk:Cyberpower678">Message</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Cyberpower678-20241118232400-Cyberpower678-20241118230300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:24, 18 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-201" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd> <dd>I had no issue substing it on <a href="/wiki/User:Izno/Sandbox" title="User:Izno/Sandbox">User:Izno/Sandbox</a> besides the image being squished that I am looking at right now. <a href="/wiki/User:Izno" title="User:Izno">Izno</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Izno" title="User talk:Izno">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Izno-20241119011700-Cyberpower678-20241118230300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:17, 19 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-202" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>I did a bit of under the wire tinkering. The subst was leaving out ALL styling information initially. I would appreciate it if you could maybe could push my attempted repairs over the finish line? —<a href="/wiki/User:Cyberpower678" title="User:Cyberpower678">CYBERPOWER</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Cyberpower678" title="User talk:Cyberpower678">Message</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Cyberpower678-20241119014100-Izno-20241119011700" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:41, 19 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-203" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd></dl></dd></dl> </section><div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section section-heading" onclick="mfTempOpenSection(12)"><h2 id="Revdel?_(Can’t_use_oversight)" data-mw-thread-id="h-Revdel?_(Can’t_use_oversight)-20241119025800">Revdel? (Can’t use oversight)</h2> <a role="button" href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard&action=edit&section=13" title="Edit section: Revdel? (Can’t use oversight)" class="cdx-button cdx-button--size-large cdx-button--fake-button cdx-button--fake-button--enabled cdx-button--icon-only cdx-button--weight-quiet "> edit </a> <span id='ooui-php-424' class='ext-discussiontools-init-section-overflowMenuButton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-buttonWidget' data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonMenuSelectWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"ellipsis","data":{"itemConfigs":[{"id":"edit","data":{"id":"edit"},"icon":"edit","label":"Edit"}],"resourceLoaderModules":[]},"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-section-overflowMenuButton"]}'><a role='button' tabindex='0' rel='nofollow' class='oo-ui-buttonElement-button'></a><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata">Latest comment: <a href="#c-Chipmunkdavis-20241119034100-2603:8001:C2F0:7D0:F49C:577B:752D:55E2-20241119032400">4 days ago</a>6 comments3 people in discussion</div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div><section class="mf-section-12 collapsible-block" id="mf-section-12"> I read the big red box at the top, but I was directed here by people at the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Teahouse" title="Wikipedia:Teahouse">WP:TEAHOUSE</a>. I’m requesting that all of my edits under this /64 range until the ones I made after my block expired get revdeled as I am ashamed of them and want to move on. I already emailed the oversight team and they said they would not do it under any circumstance. <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/2603:8001:C2F0:7D0:F49C:577B:752D:55E2" title="Special:Contributions/2603:8001:C2F0:7D0:F49C:577B:752D:55E2">2603:8001:C2F0:7D0:F49C:577B:752D:55E2</a> (<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:2603:8001:C2F0:7D0:F49C:577B:752D:55E2&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User talk:2603:8001:C2F0:7D0:F49C:577B:752D:55E2 (page does not exist)">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-2603:8001:C2F0:7D0:F49C:577B:752D:55E2-20241119025800-Revdel?_(Can%E2%80%99t_use_oversight)" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:58, 19 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-204" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>If it helps IP, no-one here knows who is behind a particular IP, your IP keeps changing, and it is a vanishingly small number of people who will ever see the contributions from an IP range. The easiest way to move on is just to move on, nobody else will be thinking about the edits. <a href="/wiki/User:Chipmunkdavis" title="User:Chipmunkdavis">CMD</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Chipmunkdavis" title="User talk:Chipmunkdavis">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Chipmunkdavis-20241119031500-2603:8001:C2F0:7D0:F49C:577B:752D:55E2-20241119025800" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">03:15, 19 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-205" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>I’m really not sure. I know people have monitored my /64 in the past, and it is easily searchable by users (even if I don’t know how to do it myself). <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/2603:8001:C2F0:7D0:F49C:577B:752D:55E2" title="Special:Contributions/2603:8001:C2F0:7D0:F49C:577B:752D:55E2">2603:8001:C2F0:7D0:F49C:577B:752D:55E2</a> (<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:2603:8001:C2F0:7D0:F49C:577B:752D:55E2&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User talk:2603:8001:C2F0:7D0:F49C:577B:752D:55E2 (page does not exist)">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-2603:8001:C2F0:7D0:F49C:577B:752D:55E2-20241119032400-Chipmunkdavis-20241119031500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">03:24, 19 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-206" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>I am sure. The people who might look up the /64 edits to Wikipedia are a subset of editors who notice an edit, of which a subset would actually check other contributions from that single IP, and an even smaller subset who would think to and know how to check higher ranges. Even of those who check, they would not assume that the other contributions on the range are from the same person. Best, <a href="/wiki/User:Chipmunkdavis" title="User:Chipmunkdavis">CMD</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Chipmunkdavis" title="User talk:Chipmunkdavis">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Chipmunkdavis-20241119034100-2603:8001:C2F0:7D0:F49C:577B:752D:55E2-20241119032400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">03:41, 19 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-207" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <dl><dd>Hello, <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/2603:8001:C2F0:7D0:F49C:577B:752D:55E2" title="Special:Contributions/2603:8001:C2F0:7D0:F49C:577B:752D:55E2">2603:8001:C2F0:7D0:F49C:577B:752D:55E2</a>,</dd> <dd>Are you the editor who was arguing about the Fictosexuality article? I was just looking at that ANI discussion from October the other day. First, I hope you are feeling better now. Secondly, if you hadn't specified an editing range, I never would have connected your current IP account with those previous edits. I doubt that you will be randomly assigned the same exact IP again. I think you can consider yourself anonymous. Finally, the Oversight team is correct, we don't revision delete edits that might be embarrassing later, only edits that are deeply offensive (racist, homophobic, etc.), violate our <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:BLP" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:BLP">Biography of living persons</a> guideline, like posting personal information or copyright infringements. I'm sure that ALL editors here have edits from their past that they wish they could erase but in the name of transparency, all of that information is logged and available for view.</dd> <dd>But, as I said before, if you don't connect your present account to that IP range, like you did here, I doubt any editor or admin will be looking into edits from that IP range. If I were you, I'd consider this as a new start and wish you luck editing on the project. <a href="/wiki/User:Liz" title="User:Liz">Liz</a> <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Liz" title="Special:Contributions/Liz">Read!</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Liz" title="User talk:Liz">Talk!</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Liz-20241119032400-2603:8001:C2F0:7D0:F49C:577B:752D:55E2-20241119025800" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">03:24, 19 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-208" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>I don’t really feel better, particularly about that topic you mentioned, but don’t worry about me.</dd> <dd>Frankly I’m just glad the embarrassing block notice that shows up when you try to edit is gone, I have other family members who share my IP. <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/2603:8001:C2F0:7D0:F49C:577B:752D:55E2" title="Special:Contributions/2603:8001:C2F0:7D0:F49C:577B:752D:55E2">2603:8001:C2F0:7D0:F49C:577B:752D:55E2</a> (<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:2603:8001:C2F0:7D0:F49C:577B:752D:55E2&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User talk:2603:8001:C2F0:7D0:F49C:577B:752D:55E2 (page does not exist)">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-2603:8001:C2F0:7D0:F49C:577B:752D:55E2-20241119033200-Liz-20241119032400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">03:32, 19 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-209" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd></dl></dd></dl> </section><div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section section-heading" onclick="mfTempOpenSection(13)"><h2 id="Most_active_administrators" data-mw-thread-id="h-Most_active_administrators-20241119091000">Most active administrators</h2> <a role="button" href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard&action=edit&section=14" title="Edit section: Most active administrators" class="cdx-button cdx-button--size-large cdx-button--fake-button cdx-button--fake-button--enabled cdx-button--icon-only cdx-button--weight-quiet "> edit </a> <span id='ooui-php-425' class='ext-discussiontools-init-section-overflowMenuButton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-buttonWidget' data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonMenuSelectWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"ellipsis","data":{"itemConfigs":[{"id":"edit","data":{"id":"edit"},"icon":"edit","label":"Edit"}],"resourceLoaderModules":[]},"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-section-overflowMenuButton"]}'><a role='button' tabindex='0' rel='nofollow' class='oo-ui-buttonElement-button'></a><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata">Latest comment: <a href="#c-Compassionate727-20241121031200-Secretlondon-20241119225400">3 days ago</a>37 comments23 people in discussion</div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div><section class="mf-section-13 collapsible-block" id="mf-section-13"> Just to remark that in the list of most active administrators of all times we now only have <s>three</s> four current human administrators, and one of those three has not edited for four months. No action yet required at this point, just FYI, since this is, well, Administrators' noticeboard. <a href="/wiki/User:Ymblanter" title="User:Ymblanter">Ymblanter</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Ymblanter" title="User talk:Ymblanter">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Ymblanter-20241119091000-Most_active_administrators" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">09:10, 19 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-210" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <ul><li><dl><dd><dl><dd>Sorry, I see now that I did not express correctly what I wanted. Out of 10 most active administrators, 4 are humans who are currently administrators, one of these 4 is inactive.--<a href="/wiki/User:Ymblanter" title="User:Ymblanter">Ymblanter</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Ymblanter" title="User talk:Ymblanter">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Ymblanter-20241119193000-Ymblanter-20241119091000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:30, 19 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-211" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd></dl></dd></dl></li> <li>And Fastily has just resigned, so the backlogs will be piling up there as well soon. <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Black_Kite" title="User talk:Black Kite">Black Kite (talk)</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Black_Kite-20241119091900-Ymblanter-20241119091000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">09:19, 19 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-212" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>Indeed, the four (I have now corrected myself) current human admins in the top ten are Explicit, Liz, Materialscientist, NawlinWiki, the latter one being inactive. We should be watching backlogs in speedy deletion.--<a href="/wiki/User:Ymblanter" title="User:Ymblanter">Ymblanter</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Ymblanter" title="User talk:Ymblanter">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Ymblanter-20241119093100-Black_Kite-20241119091900" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">09:31, 19 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-213" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd></dl></li></ul> <dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd>Fastily contributed a lot to reviewing PERM requests and FFD. We could honestly use quite a few more admins who were comfortable reviewing files and answering questions about their copyright status. I can only think of a handful of admins who work in this area of the project. <a href="/wiki/User:Liz" title="User:Liz">Liz</a> <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Liz" title="Special:Contributions/Liz">Read!</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Liz" title="User talk:Liz">Talk!</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Liz-20241119093700-Ymblanter-20241119093100" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">09:37, 19 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-214" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>Way back when I did some work in this area. I might return to it, but a way to watchlist the WP:FFD subpages as they are made would be helpful. <a href="/wiki/User:Jo-Jo_Eumerus" title="User:Jo-Jo Eumerus">Jo-Jo Eumerus</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Jo-Jo_Eumerus" title="User talk:Jo-Jo Eumerus">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Jo-Jo_Eumerus-20241119103000-Liz-20241119093700" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">10:30, 19 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-215" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>FFD pages are per day, one would need to wacthlist once per day, but I would not know how to automatize this. <a href="/wiki/User:Ymblanter" title="User:Ymblanter">Ymblanter</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Ymblanter" title="User talk:Ymblanter">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Ymblanter-20241119103600-Jo-Jo_Eumerus-20241119103000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">10:36, 19 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-216" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd></dl></dd> <dd>For anyone interested, Fastily handled most of the requests for rollback at <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:PERM/Rollback" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:PERM/Rollback">WP:PERM/Rollback</a>. <a href="/wiki/User:Hey_man_im_josh" title="User:Hey man im josh">Hey man im josh</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Hey_man_im_josh" title="User talk:Hey man im josh">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Hey_man_im_josh-20241119132700-Liz-20241119093700" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">13:27, 19 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-217" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd> <dd>For a long time, Fastily handled PERMS virtually by himself. Recently, a few more admin bods have assisted with requests. I'm assuming it is a time consuming task as it requires looking at edits and assessing their merits and asking applicants questions. He did such a good job with PERMS and obviously had a good routine. He was polite but firm about asking applicants to do more work towards PERMS.</dd> <dd>Hopefully someone will step into the void. <a href="/wiki/User:Knitsey" title="User:Knitsey">Knitsey</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Knitsey" title="User talk:Knitsey">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Knitsey-20241119171400-Liz-20241119093700" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:14, 19 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-218" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd> <dd><a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/FastilyBot" title="Special:Contributions/FastilyBot">FastilyBot</a> did a load of work too, hopefully someone else will take on some of its tasks. <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/86.23.109.101" title="Special:Contributions/86.23.109.101">86.23.109.101</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:86.23.109.101" title="User talk:86.23.109.101">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-86.23.109.101-20241119180200-Liz-20241119093700" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:02, 19 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-219" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>Seems prudent to direct anyone interested in this to <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:BOTR#Replacing_FastilyBot" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:BOTR">WP:BOTR#Replacing FastilyBot</a>. <a href="/wiki/User:WindTempos" title="User:WindTempos">WindTempos</a> <a href="/wiki/Non-binary_gender" title="Non-binary gender">they</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:WindTempos" title="User talk:WindTempos">talk</a> • <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/WindTempos" title="Special:Contributions/WindTempos">contribs</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-WindTempos-20241119181100-86.23.109.101-20241119180200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:11, 19 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-220" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd> <dd>Maybe I'm just overly optimistic, but the CSD queue cratered since we got the admin election admins and hasn't gone up since. Seems fine, at least for now. -- <a href="/wiki/User:Asilvering" title="User:Asilvering">asilvering</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Asilvering" title="User talk:Asilvering">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Asilvering-20241121023300-Ymblanter-20241119093100" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:33, 21 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-221" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd></dl></dd> <dd>It would be a good idea for admins to go through a list of all the non-admins who are likely to pass an RfA and offer to nominate them (something admins should probably be doing anyway). That would be the most efficient way to address these admin backlogs. And apparently it needs to be clearer that requesting adminship means agreeing to <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:ADMINACCT" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:ADMINACCT">WP:ADMINACCT</a>; hopefully making that clear will limit the number of times that admins make appalling decisions, refuse to acknowledge them, get way too many chances, and then get recalled (current count: 2). <a href="/wiki/User:Thebiguglyalien" title="User:Thebiguglyalien">Thebiguglyalien</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Thebiguglyalien" title="User talk:Thebiguglyalien">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Thebiguglyalien-20241119170100-Black_Kite-20241119091900" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:01, 19 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-222" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>Absolutely not, especially since these requests would tend to fall on deaf ears. (<a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:RECALL" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:RECALL">mine</a> <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:PC" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:PC">especially</a>.) You have a fair number of people who would meet those requirements but are not interested in a Hell Week. —<a href="/wiki/User:J%C3%A9sk%C3%A9_Couriano" title="User:Jéské Couriano">Jéské Couriano</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:J%C3%A9sk%C3%A9_Couriano" title="User talk:Jéské Couriano">v^_^v</a> <a href="/wiki/User:J%C3%A9sk%C3%A9_Couriano/AG" class="mw-redirect" title="User:Jéské Couriano/AG">threads</a> <a href="/wiki/User:J%C3%A9sk%C3%A9_Couriano/Decode" title="User:Jéské Couriano/Decode">critiques</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-J%C3%A9sk%C3%A9_Couriano-20241119172100-Thebiguglyalien-20241119170100" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:21, 19 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-223" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>The recent <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrator_elections" title="Wikipedia:Administrator elections">admin election results</a>, where only 1/3 of candidates were elected and only one had more than 80% support, seems to indicate there are a not-insignificant number of editors that outright do not want there to be more admins. Whether they simply have standards that don't match the actual pool of eligible candidates, or actually want fewer people with the mop, is not clear. We're going to have to have some kind of cultural change - either convincing those editors, or reaching consensus to overrule them - in order to have a larger and more sustainable number of admins.</dd> <dd>(For the record, I voted about 60% support / 30% abstain / 10% oppose, and was estimating I would be on the more cynical side. The actual totals were 37% / 37% / 26%, for an average percentage of 58%.) <a href="/wiki/User:Pi.1415926535" title="User:Pi.1415926535">Pi.1415926535</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Pi.1415926535" title="User talk:Pi.1415926535">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Pi.1415926535-20241119191300-J%C3%A9sk%C3%A9_Couriano-20241119172100" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:13, 19 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-224" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>I think the data could be analyzed in other ways. For instance, if I'm counting right, every candidate who had a nominator succeeded. That compares favorably to RfA. <a href="/wiki/User:Valereee" title="User:Valereee">Valereee</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Valereee" title="User talk:Valereee">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Valereee-20241119193900-Pi.1415926535-20241119191300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:39, 19 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-225" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd> <dd>I think that it was harder to have the confidence to vote "support" under the time limitations that come from reviewing 30+ candidates simultaneously. But still a good idea to let folks run in a group.North8000 (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:North8000#top" title="User talk:North8000">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-North8000-20241119194700-Pi.1415926535-20241119191300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:47, 19 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-226" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>I don't think we have enough data on which to base firm conclusion about the admin elections. If the experiment were re-done with some of the teething problems fixed, we would be on sturdier ground. I think the large candidate pool, while encouraging in some ways, made things more difficult but I think a re-run would have a naturally smaller pool, especially if it becomes a regular thing. <a href="/wiki/User:HJ_Mitchell" title="User:HJ Mitchell">HJ Mitchell</a> | <a href="/wiki/User_talk:HJ_Mitchell" title="User talk:HJ Mitchell">Penny for your thoughts?</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-HJ_Mitchell-20241119202000-North8000-20241119194700" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:20, 19 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-227" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>I absolutely believe some of the reason for the high number of candidates was pent-up demand. People who for the last five or ten years might have been interested, but not via RfA. <a href="/wiki/User:Valereee" title="User:Valereee">Valereee</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Valereee" title="User talk:Valereee">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Valereee-20241119203000-HJ_Mitchell-20241119202000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:30, 19 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-228" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd> <dd>I mentioned this on the election talk page at the time: I opposed a large number of candidates who I (probably) wouldn't have opposed in a normal RfA because I was concerned about the lack of scrutiny being applied in that election. Nobody else admitted it, but given how more than 600 people voted, I would be surprised if I was the only person. —<a href="/wiki/User:Compassionate727" title="User:Compassionate727">Compassionate727</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Compassionate727" title="User talk:Compassionate727">T</a>·<a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Compassionate727" title="Special:Contributions/Compassionate727">C</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Compassionate727-20241119202000-Pi.1415926535-20241119191300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:20, 19 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-229" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd> <dd>The best candidates at both Ace and aelect only had 80% support. To me, this says that there is a -20% support penalty when using secret voting. I don't think the reason is particularly important. I think we should just work around this by lowering the pass threshold. The aelect candidates in the 60 to 70 range were good, and we should make it so that they can pass in the future. An RFC for this is in the pipeline. Stay tuned. –<a href="/wiki/User:Novem_Linguae" title="User:Novem Linguae">Novem Linguae</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Novem_Linguae" title="User talk:Novem Linguae">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Novem_Linguae-20241119223400-Pi.1415926535-20241119191300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:34, 19 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-230" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>What I suspect is more likely that if an RfA is at 95%+ Support, people don't bother to oppose, because (a) they know it's not going to make any difference, and (b) they'll probably get harangued for it by supporters. <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Black_Kite" title="User talk:Black Kite">Black Kite (talk)</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Black_Kite-20241120093300-Novem_Linguae-20241119223400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">09:33, 20 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-231" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <ul><li>It's only going to get worse with RECALL in place. <a href="/wiki/User:GiantSnowman" title="User:GiantSnowman">Giant</a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:GiantSnowman" title="User talk:GiantSnowman">Snowman</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-GiantSnowman-20241119192000-Ymblanter-20241119091000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:20, 19 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-232" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></li></ul> <dl><dd>What do you mean, "Human administrators"? Aren't all administrators human? <a href="/wiki/User:GoodDay" title="User:GoodDay">GoodDay</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:GoodDay" title="User talk:GoodDay">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-GoodDay-20241119195600-Ymblanter-20241119091000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:56, 19 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-233" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:GoodDay" title="User:GoodDay">GoodDay</a> No, there are also a load of adminbots. <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/86.23.109.101" title="Special:Contributions/86.23.109.101">86.23.109.101</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:86.23.109.101" title="User talk:86.23.109.101">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-86.23.109.101-20241119195900-GoodDay-20241119195600" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:59, 19 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-234" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd> <dd>The two all-time most active administrators are actually bots. <a href="/wiki/User:Ymblanter" title="User:Ymblanter">Ymblanter</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Ymblanter" title="User talk:Ymblanter">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Ymblanter-20241119201000-GoodDay-20241119195600" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:10, 19 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-235" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd> <dd>Some of them might also be dogs. <a href="/wiki/User:Isabelle_Belato" title="User:Isabelle Belato">Isabelle Belato</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Isabelle_Belato" title="User talk:Isabelle Belato">🏳‍🌈</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Isabelle_Belato-20241119202600-GoodDay-20241119195600" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:26, 19 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-236" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd><a href="/wiki/User:Radiant!/Classification_of_admins" title="User:Radiant!/Classification of admins">User:Radiant!/Classification of admins</a> <a href="/wiki/User:Pppery" title="User:Pppery">* Pppery *</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Pppery" title="User talk:Pppery">it has begun...</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Pppery-20241120064100-Isabelle_Belato-20241119202600" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">06:41, 20 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-237" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <ul><li>@<a href="/wiki/User:Ymblanter" title="User:Ymblanter">Ymblanter</a>: can you link to where you got that stats please? :) Also, just noting that quantity is not the same as quality. Many admin actions are very easy, especially deletions (hence admin bots, hence the ability of several admins to rack up six-figure log counts) but I agree the bus factor is concerning, even accounting for the long tail. <a href="/wiki/User:HJ_Mitchell" title="User:HJ Mitchell">HJ Mitchell</a> | <a href="/wiki/User_talk:HJ_Mitchell" title="User talk:HJ Mitchell">Penny for your thoughts?</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-HJ_Mitchell-20241119203300-Ymblanter-20241119091000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:33, 19 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-238" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <ul><li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:ADMINSTATS" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:ADMINSTATS">The awful scoreboard</a>. —<a href="/wiki/User:Cryptic" class="mw-redirect" title="User:Cryptic">Cryptic</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Cryptic-20241119203500-HJ_Mitchell-20241119203300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:35, 19 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-239" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></li></ul> <dl><dd>The one I am using is <a href="/wiki/User:JamesR/AdminStats" title="User:JamesR/AdminStats">User:JamesR/AdminStats</a>, there is a big table at the end which I sort by the total number of actions and count the position manually. <a href="/wiki/User:Ymblanter" title="User:Ymblanter">Ymblanter</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Ymblanter" title="User talk:Ymblanter">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Ymblanter-20241119204400-HJ_Mitchell-20241119203300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:44, 19 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-240" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>And, yes, sure, all metrics are imperfect, but usually they still provide some useful information. <a href="/wiki/User:Ymblanter" title="User:Ymblanter">Ymblanter</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Ymblanter" title="User talk:Ymblanter">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Ymblanter-20241119205300-Ymblanter-20241119204400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:53, 19 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-241" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>Oh, I knew about ADMINSTATS. I just don't tend to look at the table at the bottom because it takes too long to load on my computer! And yes, you're correct, there is still something useful we can glean from statistics but they should be taken with a pinch of salt. <a href="/wiki/User:HJ_Mitchell" title="User:HJ Mitchell">HJ Mitchell</a> | <a href="/wiki/User_talk:HJ_Mitchell" title="User talk:HJ Mitchell">Penny for your thoughts?</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-HJ_Mitchell-20241119214600-Ymblanter-20241119205300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:46, 19 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-242" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></li></ul> Admin stats only counts the times you did something, not the times you refused to block someone, delete a page that wasn't a problem etc. We're not robots. If anything saying no is more important. <a href="/wiki/User:Secretlondon" title="User:Secretlondon">Secretlondon</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Secretlondon" title="User talk:Secretlondon">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Secretlondon-20241119225400-Most_active_administrators" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:54, 19 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-243" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>I agree. Admin actions aren't everything and it's difficult to quantify a number of tasks that some great admins work at. For example, the number of unblock requests that someone like <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:331dot">331dot</a> declines or replies to prior to unblocking, or ARBCOM time spent writing significant text or analyzing long conversations and evidence, or the admins working at <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:CFDS" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:CFDS">WP:CFDS</a> to process category renaming requests. Never the less, there is some value in admin actions, it's just not the only way to evaluate someone's contributions and we should be mindful of that. <a href="/wiki/User:Hey_man_im_josh" title="User:Hey man im josh">Hey man im josh</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Hey_man_im_josh" title="User talk:Hey man im josh">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Hey_man_im_josh-20241120163800-Secretlondon-20241119225400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:38, 20 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-244" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>I agree, too, Josh. I think of the time some admins spend talking to new editors or blocked editors, trying to explain Wikipedia's processes to them, and I think those are invaluable activities. But personal conversations, one-on-one discussions, are not quantified and don't have a "leaderboard". Or time spend on noticeboards or DRN or the Teahouse, working to resolve and deescalate disputes. Of course, many of these discussions are also done by editors, too, but I know some admins who will spend their time trying to guide confused or frustrated editors into being productive contributors and I think those actions are some of the most important that admins can take on because they can lead to more constructive editors. <a href="/wiki/User:Liz" title="User:Liz">Liz</a> <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Liz" title="Special:Contributions/Liz">Read!</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Liz" title="User talk:Liz">Talk!</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Liz-20241121013100-Hey_man_im_josh-20241120163800" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:31, 21 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-245" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd></dl></dd> <dd>Admin stats are a good way of determining how many (and which) admins are doing the high-volume, tedious, repetitive stuff. It takes a special workhorse of a person to do that stuff day-in and day-out for years. —<a href="/wiki/User:Compassionate727" title="User:Compassionate727">Compassionate727</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Compassionate727" title="User talk:Compassionate727">T</a>·<a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Compassionate727" title="Special:Contributions/Compassionate727">C</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Compassionate727-20241121031200-Secretlondon-20241119225400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">03:12, 21 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-246" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd></dl> </section><div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section section-heading" onclick="mfTempOpenSection(14)"><h2 id='Request_to_Review_and_Remove_"Ilsa,_She_Wolf_of_the_SS"' data-mw-thread-id='h-Request_to_Review_and_Remove_"Ilsa,_She_Wolf_of_the_SS"-20241119195500'>Request to Review and Remove "Ilsa, She Wolf of the SS"</h2> <a role="button" href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard&action=edit&section=15" title='Edit section: Request to Review and Remove "Ilsa, She Wolf of the SS"' class="cdx-button cdx-button--size-large cdx-button--fake-button cdx-button--fake-button--enabled cdx-button--icon-only cdx-button--weight-quiet "> edit </a> <span id='ooui-php-426' class='ext-discussiontools-init-section-overflowMenuButton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-buttonWidget' data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonMenuSelectWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"ellipsis","data":{"itemConfigs":[{"id":"edit","data":{"id":"edit"},"icon":"edit","label":"Edit"}],"resourceLoaderModules":[]},"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-section-overflowMenuButton"]}'><a role='button' tabindex='0' rel='nofollow' class='oo-ui-buttonElement-button'></a><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata">Latest comment: <a href="#c-MrSchimpf-20241120000300-Request_to_Review_and_Remove_"Ilsa,_She_Wolf_of_the_SS"">4 days ago</a>4 comments4 people in discussion</div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div><section class="mf-section-14 collapsible-block" id="mf-section-14"> <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1250141580"><div class="boilerplate archived archive-top mw-archivedtalk" style=""><link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1235681985"><div class="side-box metadata side-box-right archive-top-result" style="padding: 10px; line-height: inherit;"> <div class="side-box-flex"> <div class="side-box-text" style="padding: 0;"><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:FORUMSHOP" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:FORUMSHOP">WP:FORUMSHOP</a>, discussions relating to this and two other similar articles are underway at <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Ilsa,_She_Wolf_of_the_SS" title="Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Ilsa, She Wolf of the SS">Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Ilsa, She Wolf of the SS</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Ilsa,_the_Tigress_of_Siberia" title="Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Ilsa, the Tigress of Siberia">Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Ilsa, the Tigress of Siberia</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Ilsa,_Harem_Keeper_of_the_Oil_Sheiks" title="Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Ilsa, Harem Keeper of the Oil Sheiks">Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Ilsa, Harem Keeper of the Oil Sheiks</a> signed, <a href="/wiki/User:Rosguill" title="User:Rosguill">Rosguill</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Rosguill" title="User talk:Rosguill">talk</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Rosguill-20241119195900-Request_to_Review_and_Remove_%22Ilsa,_She_Wolf_of_the_SS%22" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:59, 19 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-247" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> ETA Both noms <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:SNOWBALL" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:SNOWBALL">WP:SNOWBALLed</a>. <a href="/wiki/User:MrSchimpf" title="User:MrSchimpf">Nate</a> • (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:MrSchimpf" title="User talk:MrSchimpf">chatter</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-MrSchimpf-20241120000300-Request_to_Review_and_Remove_%22Ilsa,_She_Wolf_of_the_SS%22" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:03, 20 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-248" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></div></div> </div> <div class="boilerplate-header" style="margin-left: 1.6em; font-style: italic;"> The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion. </div> <hr> I am requesting a review of the article "Ilsa, She Wolf of the SS" due to its explicit content and significant societal harm. The article describes a 1970s exploitation film featuring a Nazi officer engaging in sexual acts with prisoners. My concerns include: 1. **Promoting Harmful Ideologies**: The article glorifies sexual violence and Nazism, presenting these in a way that risks promoting unhealthy fantasies among immature male audiences. 2. **Stigmatization of Common Names**: The use of the name "Ilsa","Anata" and so on associates it with degrading depictions, causing real-world stigmatization and bullying for individuals with this name. 3. **Unsuitable for Public Platform**: This article is inappropriate for an open-access platform like Wikipedia, which is used by people of all ages, including minors. 4. **Timing of Creation**: The article was created decades after the film's release, in 2022, raising questions about the motivations behind its creation and its compliance with Wikipedia's policies on notability and neutrality. 5. I strongly urge the administrators to review this article and consider its removal or severe content restrictions to uphold Wikipedia's responsibility as a neutral and appropriate public platform. <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Zaimingmingde&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Zaimingmingde (page does not exist)">Zaimingmingde</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Zaimingmingde" title="User talk:Zaimingmingde">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Zaimingmingde-20241119195500-Request_to_Review_and_Remove_%22Ilsa,_She_Wolf_of_the_SS%22" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:55, 19 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-249" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>@<a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Zaimingmingde&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Zaimingmingde (page does not exist)">Zaimingmingde</a>, you've commented at <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Ilsa,_She_Wolf_of_the_SS" title="Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Ilsa, She Wolf of the SS">Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Ilsa, She Wolf of the SS</a>, which is the appropriate location. The discussion there will determine whether the article is kept or deleted. <a href="/wiki/User:Schazjmd" title="User:Schazjmd">Schazjmd</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Schazjmd" title="User talk:Schazjmd">(talk)</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Schazjmd-20241119195800-Zaimingmingde-20241119195500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:58, 19 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-250" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd></dl> <div style="padding-left: 1.6em; font-style: italic; border-top: 1px solid #a2a9b1; margin: 0.5em 0; padding-top: 0.5em">The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.</div> </div><div style="clear:both;" class=""></div> </section><div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section section-heading" onclick="mfTempOpenSection(15)"><h2 id="Thanks!" data-mw-thread-id="h-Thanks!-20241119221200">Thanks!</h2> <a role="button" href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard&action=edit&section=16" title="Edit section: Thanks!" class="cdx-button cdx-button--size-large cdx-button--fake-button cdx-button--fake-button--enabled cdx-button--icon-only cdx-button--weight-quiet "> edit </a> <span id='ooui-php-427' class='ext-discussiontools-init-section-overflowMenuButton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-buttonWidget' data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonMenuSelectWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"ellipsis","data":{"itemConfigs":[{"id":"edit","data":{"id":"edit"},"icon":"edit","label":"Edit"}],"resourceLoaderModules":[]},"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-section-overflowMenuButton"]}'><a role='button' tabindex='0' rel='nofollow' class='oo-ui-buttonElement-button'></a><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata">Latest comment: <a href="#c-Asilvering-20241121032000-Completely_Random_Guy-20241119221200">2 days ago</a>4 comments4 people in discussion</div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div><section class="mf-section-15 collapsible-block" id="mf-section-15"> Hello all Wikipedia Admins! I am just here writing to thank you all for the great work you do, and how you all make this an amazing place to be and contribute. I couldn't love more, the feeling of accomplishment and satisfaction I get from editing here and I plan to stay for as long as possible! Please keep up the good work. Have a wonderful day! <a href="/wiki/User:Completely_Random_Guy" title="User:Completely Random Guy">Completely Random Guy</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Completely_Random_Guy" title="User talk:Completely Random Guy">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Completely_Random_Guy-20241119221200-Thanks!" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:12, 19 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-251" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>Hello, <a href="/wiki/User:Completely_Random_Guy" title="User:Completely Random Guy">Completely Random Guy</a>,</dd> <dd>Speaking for admins, we don't hear a lot of "thank you"s on this noticeboard. It looked like you had a rocky start as an editor on this project but luckily, you stayed around and continued to contribute. Admins are really just here to remove disruptions to allow content creators to get to work. So thank you for your contributions! <a href="/wiki/User:Liz" title="User:Liz">Liz</a> <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Liz" title="Special:Contributions/Liz">Read!</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Liz" title="User talk:Liz">Talk!</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Liz-20241120004900-Completely_Random_Guy-20241119221200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:49, 20 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-252" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd> <dd>You're welcome. <a href="/wiki/User:Pppery" title="User:Pppery">* Pppery *</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Pppery" title="User talk:Pppery">it has begun...</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Pppery-20241120050200-Completely_Random_Guy-20241119221200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">05:02, 20 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-253" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd> <dd>Thanks for editing wikipedia! -- <a href="/wiki/User:Asilvering" title="User:Asilvering">asilvering</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Asilvering" title="User talk:Asilvering">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Asilvering-20241121032000-Completely_Random_Guy-20241119221200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">03:20, 21 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-254" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd></dl> </section><div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section section-heading" onclick="mfTempOpenSection(16)"><h2 id="User:AnubisIbizu_requesting_an_unblock" data-mw-thread-id="h-User:AnubisIbizu_requesting_an_unblock-20241120030800"><a href="/wiki/User:AnubisIbizu" title="User:AnubisIbizu">User:AnubisIbizu</a> requesting an unblock</h2> <a role="button" href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard&action=edit&section=17" title="Edit section: User:AnubisIbizu requesting an unblock" class="cdx-button cdx-button--size-large cdx-button--fake-button cdx-button--fake-button--enabled cdx-button--icon-only cdx-button--weight-quiet "> edit </a> <span id='ooui-php-428' class='ext-discussiontools-init-section-overflowMenuButton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-buttonWidget' data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonMenuSelectWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"ellipsis","data":{"itemConfigs":[{"id":"edit","data":{"id":"edit"},"icon":"edit","label":"Edit"}],"resourceLoaderModules":[]},"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-section-overflowMenuButton"]}'><a role='button' tabindex='0' rel='nofollow' class='oo-ui-buttonElement-button'></a><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata">Latest comment: <a href="#c-BD2412-20241121173300-Yamla-20241120110400">2 days ago</a>9 comments7 people in discussion</div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div><section class="mf-section-16 collapsible-block" id="mf-section-16"> Two years ago, I blocked <a href="/wiki/User:AnubisIbizu" title="User:AnubisIbizu">User:AnubisIbizu</a> pursuant to the ANI discussion now archived at <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/IncidentArchive1110#AnubisIbizu" title="Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/IncidentArchive1110">Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/IncidentArchive1110#AnubisIbizu</a>. The editor has <a href="/wiki/User_talk:AnubisIbizu#October_2022" title="User talk:AnubisIbizu">today requested an unblock</a>, expressing remorse for their prior conduct, while vehemently denying that they also engaged in sockpuppetry. Although I don't specifically remember the discussion, the sockpuppetry denial seems dubious to me, but not impossible. I would therefore prefer the input of this board before acting on this request. <a href="/wiki/User:BD2412" title="User:BD2412">BD2412</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:BD2412" title="User talk:BD2412">T</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-BD2412-20241120030800-User:AnubisIbizu_requesting_an_unblock" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">03:08, 20 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-255" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd><a href="/wiki/User:BD2412" title="User:BD2412">BD2412</a>, if I remember rightly, unblock appeals are typically posted on <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:AN" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:AN">WP:AN</a>, not ANI. <a href="/wiki/User:Liz" title="User:Liz">Liz</a> <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Liz" title="Special:Contributions/Liz">Read!</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Liz" title="User talk:Liz">Talk!</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Liz-20241120032200-BD2412-20241120030800" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">03:22, 20 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-256" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:Liz" title="User:Liz">Liz</a>: You are correct; so moved. <a href="/wiki/User:BD2412" title="User:BD2412">BD2412</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:BD2412" title="User talk:BD2412">T</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-BD2412-20241120032400-Liz-20241120032200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">03:24, 20 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-257" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd></dl></dd> <dd>Seems there was an SPI about the socks, after the block: <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Sockpuppet_investigations/AnubisIbizu/Archive" title="Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/AnubisIbizu/Archive">Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/AnubisIbizu/Archive</a> - found after reading <a href="/wiki/User_talk:ZimZalaBim/Archive_12#Alt_account?" title="User talk:ZimZalaBim/Archive 12">User talk:ZimZalaBim/Archive 12#Alt account?</a>, where @<a href="/wiki/User:Zzuuzz" title="User:Zzuuzz">Zzuuzz</a> had previously also commented about the socks.</dd> <dd>That's all I'm going to comment on as a curious user. – user in a <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/2804:F14::/32" title="Special:Contributions/2804:F14::/32">::/32 range</a>, currently <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/2804:F14:80BF:B801:8C35:ECA9:E927:764A" title="Special:Contributions/2804:F14:80BF:B801:8C35:ECA9:E927:764A">2804:F14:80BF:B801:8C35:ECA9:E927:764A</a> (<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:2804:F14:80BF:B801:8C35:ECA9:E927:764A&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User talk:2804:F14:80BF:B801:8C35:ECA9:E927:764A (page does not exist)">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-2804:F14:80BF:B801:8C35:ECA9:E927:764A-20241120035100-BD2412-20241120030800" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">03:51, 20 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-258" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>This SPI seems pretty relevant to the sockpuppetry concerns with the CheckUser comment: <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1248585704"><q class="inline-quote-talk">Traynreck and ZimAlakaZam are <noscript><img alt="" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/41/Symbol_confirmed.svg/16px-Symbol_confirmed.svg.png" decoding="async" width="16" height="16" class="mw-file-element" data-file-width="180" data-file-height="185"></noscript><span class="lazy-image-placeholder" style="width: 16px;height: 16px;" data-src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/41/Symbol_confirmed.svg/16px-Symbol_confirmed.svg.png" data-alt="" data-width="16" data-height="16" data-srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/41/Symbol_confirmed.svg/24px-Symbol_confirmed.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/41/Symbol_confirmed.svg/32px-Symbol_confirmed.svg.png 2x" data-class="mw-file-element">  Confirmed to each other. AnubisIbizu is <noscript><img alt="" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e9/Symbol_unlikely.svg/16px-Symbol_unlikely.svg.png" decoding="async" width="16" height="16" class="mw-file-element" data-file-width="180" data-file-height="185"></noscript><span class="lazy-image-placeholder" style="width: 16px;height: 16px;" data-src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e9/Symbol_unlikely.svg/16px-Symbol_unlikely.svg.png" data-alt="" data-width="16" data-height="16" data-srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e9/Symbol_unlikely.svg/24px-Symbol_unlikely.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e9/Symbol_unlikely.svg/32px-Symbol_unlikely.svg.png 2x" data-class="mw-file-element">  Unlikely or at best <a href="/wiki/File:Symbol_unsupport_vote.svg" class="mw-file-description"><noscript><img alt="" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/f6/Symbol_unsupport_vote.svg/18px-Symbol_unsupport_vote.svg.png" decoding="async" width="18" height="18" class="mw-file-element" data-file-width="200" data-file-height="200"></noscript><span class="lazy-image-placeholder" style="width: 18px;height: 18px;" data-src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/f6/Symbol_unsupport_vote.svg/18px-Symbol_unsupport_vote.svg.png" data-alt="" data-width="18" data-height="18" data-srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/f6/Symbol_unsupport_vote.svg/27px-Symbol_unsupport_vote.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/f6/Symbol_unsupport_vote.svg/36px-Symbol_unsupport_vote.svg.png 2x" data-class="mw-file-element"> </a> Inconclusive to those two: different devices and different regions of the same country (though possibly could be explained by having a corporate VPN of some kind, but my confidence in that possibility is not high). I didn't find any other accounts. Honestly, could this be a joe job? Someone at the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Incidents#AnubisIbizu" title="Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents">ANI thread</a> linked above even suggested the possibility. [...] <a href="/wiki/User:Mz7" title="User:Mz7">Mz7</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Mz7" title="User talk:Mz7">talk</a>) 22:55, 12 October 2022 (UTC)</q> and it was later closed without tagging. <a href="/wiki/User:Retro" title="User:Retro">Retro</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Retro#top" title="User talk:Retro">talk</a> | <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Retro" title="Special:Contributions/Retro">contribs</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Retro-20241120054100-2804:F14:80BF:B801:8C35:ECA9:E927:764A-20241120035100" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">05:41, 20 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-259" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd></dl></dd> <dd>Given the SPI evidence, it looks like we ought to be unblocking, though given the ANI, some reminders about what AGF means and how to sort out content disputes wouldn't go amiss. -- <a href="/wiki/User:Asilvering" title="User:Asilvering">asilvering</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Asilvering" title="User talk:Asilvering">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Asilvering-20241120064500-BD2412-20241120030800" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">06:45, 20 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-260" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd> <dd>Commenting because I was pinged and previously commented. In the absence of other facts (which I haven't looked for) my previous comments should not get in the way of any unblock. My comments were not so different to the conclusions of the SPI, but were perhaps a bit more committed. The comments are what they are and I have no subsequent amendments to them, but that was like two years ago and as far as I know the only such incident. Courtesy pings for <a href="/wiki/User:Spicy" title="User:Spicy">Spicy</a> and <a href="/wiki/User:Mz7" title="User:Mz7">Mz7</a>. -- <a href="/wiki/User:Zzuuzz" title="User:Zzuuzz">zzuuzz</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Zzuuzz" title="User talk:Zzuuzz">(talk)</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Zzuuzz-20241120071800-BD2412-20241120030800" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">07:18, 20 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-261" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>There's no immediately obvious recent block evasion from this user, based on <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:CHECKUSER" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:CHECKUSER">technical evidence</a>. Looks clear from that perspective. --<a href="/wiki/User:Yamla" title="User:Yamla">Yamla</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Yamla" title="User talk:Yamla">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Yamla-20241120110400-Zzuuzz-20241120071800" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">11:04, 20 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-262" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>Unblocking now, then. <a href="/wiki/User:BD2412" title="User:BD2412">BD2412</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:BD2412" title="User talk:BD2412">T</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-BD2412-20241121173300-Yamla-20241120110400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:33, 21 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-263" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> </section><div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section section-heading" onclick="mfTempOpenSection(17)"><h2 id='WickedFanAccount_"outing"_and_digging_through_my_social_media' data-mw-thread-id='h-WickedFanAccount_"outing"_and_digging_through_my_social_media-20241120101600'>WickedFanAccount "outing" and digging through my social media</h2> <a role="button" href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard&action=edit&section=18" title='Edit section: WickedFanAccount "outing" and digging through my social media' class="cdx-button cdx-button--size-large cdx-button--fake-button cdx-button--fake-button--enabled cdx-button--icon-only cdx-button--weight-quiet "> edit </a> <span id='ooui-php-429' class='ext-discussiontools-init-section-overflowMenuButton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-buttonWidget' data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonMenuSelectWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"ellipsis","data":{"itemConfigs":[{"id":"edit","data":{"id":"edit"},"icon":"edit","label":"Edit"}],"resourceLoaderModules":[]},"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-section-overflowMenuButton"]}'><a role='button' tabindex='0' rel='nofollow' class='oo-ui-buttonElement-button'></a><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata">Latest comment: <a href="#c-Botto-20241123204900-WickedFanAccount_"outing"_and_digging_through_my_social_media">6 hours ago</a>26 comments9 people in discussion</div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div><section class="mf-section-17 collapsible-block" id="mf-section-17"> <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1250141580"><div class="boilerplate archived archive-top mw-archivedtalk" style=""><link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1235681985"><div class="side-box metadata side-box-right archive-top-result" style="padding: 10px; line-height: inherit;"> <div class="side-box-abovebelow" style="padding: 0;"> NON-ADMIN CLOSURE</div> <div class="side-box-flex"> <div class="side-box-text" style="padding: 0;">User has been indefinitely blocked. <a href="/wiki/User:Botto" title="User:Botto">BOTTO</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Botto" title="User talk:Botto">T</a>•<a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Botto" title="Special:Contributions/Botto">C</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Botto-20241123204900-WickedFanAccount_%22outing%22_and_digging_through_my_social_media" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:49, 23 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-264" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></div></div> </div> <div class="boilerplate-header" style="margin-left: 1.6em; font-style: italic;"> The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion. </div> <hr> <a class="external free" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia%3AConflict_of_interest%2FNoticeboard&diff=1258483252&oldid=1258483166">https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia%3AConflict_of_interest%2FNoticeboard&diff=1258483252&oldid=1258483166</a> <a href="/wiki/User:WickedFanAccount" title="User:WickedFanAccount">User:WickedFanAccount</a> has dug through my social media post and made disparaging comments about me saying I'm "foaming at the mouth" at having met the cast of the Wicked play. As @<a href="/wiki/User:Trailblazer101" title="User:Trailblazer101">Trailblazer101</a> mentioned this could be a form of <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:OUTING" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:OUTING">WP:OUTING</a>. Please <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:PING" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:PING">WP:PING</a> me if there's a reply as I'm not watching this page. <a href="/wiki/User:Tyw7" title="User:Tyw7">Tyw7</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Tyw7" title="User talk:Tyw7">🗣️ Talk</a>) — If (reply) then (<a href="/wiki/Help:Notifications#Mentions" title="Help:Notifications">ping me</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Tyw7-20241120101600-WickedFanAccount_%22outing%22_and_digging_through_my_social_media" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">10:16, 20 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-265" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>What's the point in reporting a user if you're not even watching the page? Anyway, this presumably involves off-wiki evidence so you should <a href="/wiki/Special:EmailUser/Arbitration_Committee" title="Special:EmailUser/Arbitration Committee">email the arbitration committee</a>. Or find a pliable admin :) Cheers, <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Serial_Number_54129" title="User talk:Serial Number 54129">SerialNumber</a><a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Serial_Number_54129" title="Special:Contributions/Serial Number 54129">54129</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Serial_Number_54129-20241120104500-Tyw7-20241120101600" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">10:45, 20 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-266" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>I occasionally check beck but not watching it.</dd> <dd>But as @<a href="/wiki/User:Happily888" title="User:Happily888">Happily888</a> <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Conflict_of_interest/Noticeboard&oldid=1258559405">mentions</a> "I'd agree with above too. I believe this user just doesn't want to edit <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:CIVIL" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:CIVIL">WP:CIVILly</a> and that they think all their edits are factual, right and correct, even when they are not, and are instead disregarding policies like <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:VERIFIABILITY" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:VERIFIABILITY">WP:VERIFIABILITY</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:CON" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:CON">WP:CON</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:OWN" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:OWN">WP:OWN</a> and <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:EW" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:EW">WP:EW</a>. "</dd></dl></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd>Anyway, an admin seems to have expunged the edit mentioning my Reddit account. But the other concerns still remain.</dd></dl></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd>Edit: Ooo it seems I can subscribe to one topic only. That's great!<a href="/wiki/User:Tyw7" title="User:Tyw7">Tyw7</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Tyw7" title="User talk:Tyw7">🗣️ Talk</a>) — If (reply) then (<a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:PING" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:PING">ping me</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Tyw7-20241120104600-Serial_Number_54129-20241120104500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">10:46, 20 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-267" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>I admit the editor seems unlikely to enjoy a long career here. <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Serial_Number_54129" title="User talk:Serial Number 54129">SerialNumber</a><a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Serial_Number_54129" title="Special:Contributions/Serial Number 54129">54129</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Serial_Number_54129-20241120110100-Tyw7-20241120104600" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">11:01, 20 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-268" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>Just noting that on-wiki outing should go through <a href="/wiki/Special:EmailUser/Oversight" title="Special:EmailUser/Oversight">Special:EmailUser/Oversight</a> as that team has more members and a faster response time than ArbCom. <a href="/wiki/User:Primefac" title="User:Primefac">Primefac</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Primefac" title="User talk:Primefac">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Primefac-20241120113800-Serial_Number_54129-20241120110100" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">11:38, 20 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-269" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>Yeah course, I was thinking of a Case. <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Serial_Number_54129" title="User talk:Serial Number 54129">SerialNumber</a><a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Serial_Number_54129" title="Special:Contributions/Serial Number 54129">54129</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Serial_Number_54129-20241120120900-Primefac-20241120113800" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">12:09, 20 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-270" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd> <dd>You have the same username. You accused me of not being allowed to edit articles of things I am a fan of when you yourself proved you are a mega fan. I was simply stating what I noticed in the pictures. <a href="/wiki/User:WickedFanAccount" title="User:WickedFanAccount">WickedFanAccount</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:WickedFanAccount" title="User talk:WickedFanAccount">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-WickedFanAccount-20241120201000-Tyw7-20241120101600" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:10, 20 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-271" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>You accused me of "foaming at the mouth." Plus I don't go around digging your social accounts.</dd> <dd>Plus it isn't just me who have a concern with you. @<a href="/wiki/User:Happily888" title="User:Happily888">Happily888</a> does too. <a href="/wiki/User:Tyw7" title="User:Tyw7">Tyw7</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Tyw7" title="User talk:Tyw7">🗣️ Talk</a>) — If (reply) then (<a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:PING" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:PING">ping me</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Tyw7-20241120202000-WickedFanAccount-20241120201000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:20, 20 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-272" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd> <dd>Having the same username isn't enough. Unless someone explicitly connects the identity to external accounts or their real name, it isn't permitted. And using language like "foaming at the mouth" is a violation of <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:NPA" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:NPA">WP:NPA</a>. <a href="/wiki/User:Guettarda" title="User:Guettarda">Guettarda</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Guettarda" title="User talk:Guettarda">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Guettarda-20241120202200-WickedFanAccount-20241120201000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:22, 20 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-273" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd> <dd>Though I disagree with the basis for the COI concerns and understand your frustration, you stepped way over the line by doxxing another editor. If you aren't blocked for this, my hope is that you'll know better so you won't do this again. <a href="/wiki/User:Botto" title="User:Botto">BOTTO</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Botto" title="User talk:Botto">T</a>•<a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Botto" title="Special:Contributions/Botto">C</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Botto-20241120210900-WickedFanAccount-20241120201000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:09, 20 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-274" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>Is it doxing if they are using the same username on a public account with similar interests that line up exactly with their contributions on Wikipedia? <a href="/wiki/User:WickedFanAccount" title="User:WickedFanAccount">WickedFanAccount</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:WickedFanAccount" title="User talk:WickedFanAccount">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-WickedFanAccount-20241120221100-Botto-20241120210900" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:11, 20 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-275" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>YES <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:OUTING" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:OUTING">WP:OUTING</a> <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1248585704"><q class="inline-quote-talk">Posting another editor's personal information is harassment, unless that person has voluntarily posted their own information, or links to such information, on Wikipedia.</q> — <a href="/wiki/User:Rsjaffe" title="User:Rsjaffe">rsjaffe</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Rsjaffe" title="User talk:Rsjaffe">🗣️</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Rsjaffe-20241120221600-WickedFanAccount-20241120221100" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:16, 20 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-276" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>It's the SAME username. He literally put his username ON Wikipedia and matched that with his PUBLIC profiles. <a href="/wiki/User:WickedFanAccount" title="User:WickedFanAccount">WickedFanAccount</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:WickedFanAccount" title="User talk:WickedFanAccount">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-WickedFanAccount-20241120222600-Rsjaffe-20241120221600" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:26, 20 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-277" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>It's <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:OUTING" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:OUTING">WP:OUTING</a>. It's critically important you understand this. It's <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:OUTING" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:OUTING">WP:OUTING</a>. --<a href="/wiki/User:Yamla" title="User:Yamla">Yamla</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Yamla" title="User talk:Yamla">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Yamla-20241120222700-WickedFanAccount-20241120222600" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:27, 20 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-278" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>Plus it's <a href="/wiki/Ad_hominem" title="Ad hominem">Ad hominem</a> and <a href="/wiki/Tu_quoque" title="Tu quoque">Tu quoque</a> arguments. I thought it was a partial conflict of interest based on the name and the fact that you're frequently editing articles related to Wicked. Then you went ahead and made a <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:PERSONALATTACK" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:PERSONALATTACK">personal ad hominem</a> attack and use tu quoque to deflect my concern. And as other said you went ahead and linked to my Reddit account, meaning you were stalking me since that post was probably on the second page of my profile. <a href="/wiki/User:Tyw7" title="User:Tyw7">Tyw7</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Tyw7" title="User talk:Tyw7">🗣️ Talk</a>) — If (reply) then (<a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:PING" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:PING">ping me</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Tyw7-20241120223000-Yamla-20241120222700" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:30, 20 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-279" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd></dl></dd> <dd>I'll also note a match like this isn't conclusive. I literally blocked someone today for a username indicating they were <a href="/wiki/Megan_Thee_Stallion" title="Megan Thee Stallion">Megan Thee Stallion</a>. But even if it was conclusive, it's <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:OUTING" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:OUTING">WP:OUTING</a> and you must not do it. --<a href="/wiki/User:Yamla" title="User:Yamla">Yamla</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Yamla" title="User talk:Yamla">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Yamla-20241120222900-WickedFanAccount-20241120222600" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:29, 20 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-280" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd> <dd>If you don’t understand this basic protection for users, then you should be blocked to prevent you from outing other users in the future. — <a href="/wiki/User:Rsjaffe" title="User:Rsjaffe">rsjaffe</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Rsjaffe" title="User talk:Rsjaffe">🗣️</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Rsjaffe-20241120230100-WickedFanAccount-20241120222600" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:01, 20 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-281" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>Apparently the user has now stuck a "retired" notice on their user page with the message "This user is no longer active on Wikipedia ~~ Everyone here is soft and does not appreciate my truthful edits. I used this site a lot 10 years ago. I returned just this month, and I realized why I left. It's worse then than it is now. I am leaving this site for good.." Based on that comment, I suspect they maybe a puppet or have another account as this account only start editing on November 10, 2024. <a href="/wiki/User:Tyw7" title="User:Tyw7">Tyw7</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Tyw7" title="User talk:Tyw7">🗣️ Talk</a>) — If (reply) then (<a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:PING" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:PING">ping me</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Tyw7-20241120230800-Rsjaffe-20241120230100" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:08, 20 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-282" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>To avoid ANI flu issues, I have blocked for harassment indefinitely. I invite review by other admins as I am new to the mop. Alterations or reversion of the block is fine. — <a href="/wiki/User:Rsjaffe" title="User:Rsjaffe">rsjaffe</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Rsjaffe" title="User talk:Rsjaffe">🗣️</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Rsjaffe-20241120231500-Tyw7-20241120230800" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:15, 20 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-283" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>Just curious, what's ANI flu issues? <a href="/wiki/User:Tyw7" title="User:Tyw7">Tyw7</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Tyw7" title="User talk:Tyw7">🗣️ Talk</a>) — If (reply) then (<a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:PING" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:PING">ping me</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Tyw7-20241120231700-Rsjaffe-20241120231500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:17, 20 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-284" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:ANIFLU" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:ANIFLU">WP:ANIFLU</a> — <a href="/wiki/User:Rsjaffe" title="User:Rsjaffe">rsjaffe</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Rsjaffe" title="User talk:Rsjaffe">🗣️</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Rsjaffe-20241120232300-Tyw7-20241120231700" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:23, 20 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-285" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>Thanks. <a href="/wiki/User:Tyw7" title="User:Tyw7">Tyw7</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Tyw7" title="User talk:Tyw7">🗣️ Talk</a>) — If (reply) then (<a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:PING" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:PING">ping me</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Tyw7-20241120233100-Rsjaffe-20241120232300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:31, 20 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-286" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd><a href="/wiki/User:Rsjaffe" title="User:Rsjaffe">rsjaffe</a>, my only comment is that, as I understand this situation, they were blocked for one instance of outing on one noticeboard. One very, VERY inappropriate edit. "Harrassment" implies more extensive editing focused on intentionally annoying a fellow editor and interfering with their editing which I don't see here. If anything, I think they were unnecessarily bothered with a totally ludicrous COIN case that argued that because they were a fan of a musical, they shouldn't be editing an article about it without disclosing they had a COI. If that's the case, then we should inform all of the Doctor Who fans who are editors that they are banned from editing any articles connected with that TV series. This was a frivolous noticeboard dispute and if it hadn't happened, the editor probably wouldn't have outed the filing editor and they wouldn't be blocked right now. I'm not defending what they did, outing is a red line none of us can cross without severe consequences, but this whole situation didn't have to happen. I think we have to do more to discourage editors from bringing minor disputes to the public forum of noticeboards. <a href="/wiki/User:Liz" title="User:Liz">Liz</a> <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Liz" title="Special:Contributions/Liz">Read!</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Liz" title="User talk:Liz">Talk!</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Liz-20241121042700-Tyw7-20241120233100" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">04:27, 21 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-287" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>It's more their name that I was thinking that might have a conflict of interest. <a href="/wiki/User:Tyw7" title="User:Tyw7">Tyw7</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Tyw7" title="User talk:Tyw7">🗣️ Talk</a>) — If (reply) then (<a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:PING" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:PING">ping me</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Tyw7-20241121082300-Liz-20241121042700" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">08:23, 21 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-288" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd> <dd>Any mops may want to close the thread at <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Conflict_of_interest/Noticeboard" title="Wikipedia:Conflict of interest/Noticeboard">Wikipedia:Conflict_of_interest/Noticeboard</a> too <a href="/wiki/User:Tyw7" title="User:Tyw7">Tyw7</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Tyw7" title="User talk:Tyw7">🗣️ Talk</a>) — If (reply) then (<a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:PING" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:PING">ping me</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Tyw7-20241120234700-Tyw7-20241120101600" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:47, 20 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-289" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd></dl> <div style="padding-left: 1.6em; font-style: italic; border-top: 1px solid #a2a9b1; margin: 0.5em 0; padding-top: 0.5em">The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.</div> </div><div style="clear:both;" class=""></div> </section><div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section section-heading" onclick="mfTempOpenSection(18)"><h2 id="Discussion_at_Wikipedia:Village_pump_(proposals)_§_RfC:_Enable_the_mergehistory_permission_for_importers" data-mw-thread-id="h-Discussion_at_Wikipedia:Village_pump_(proposals)_§_RfC:_Enable_the_mergehistory-20241120122900">Discussion at <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Village_pump_(proposals)#RfC:_Enable_the_mergehistory_permission_for_importers" title="Wikipedia:Village pump (proposals)">Wikipedia:Village pump (proposals) § RfC: Enable the mergehistory permission for importers</a></h2> <a role="button" href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard&action=edit&section=19" title="Edit section: Discussion at Wikipedia:Village pump (proposals) § RfC: Enable the mergehistory permission for importers" class="cdx-button cdx-button--size-large cdx-button--fake-button cdx-button--fake-button--enabled cdx-button--icon-only cdx-button--weight-quiet "> edit </a> <span id='ooui-php-430' class='ext-discussiontools-init-section-overflowMenuButton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-buttonWidget' data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonMenuSelectWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"ellipsis","data":{"itemConfigs":[{"id":"edit","data":{"id":"edit"},"icon":"edit","label":"Edit"}],"resourceLoaderModules":[]},"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-section-overflowMenuButton"]}'><a role='button' tabindex='0' rel='nofollow' class='oo-ui-buttonElement-button'></a><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata">Latest comment: <a href="#c-Chaotic_Enby-20241120122900-Discussion_at_Wikipedia:Village_pump_(proposals)_§_RfC:_Enable_the_mergehistory">3 days ago</a>1 comment1 person in discussion</div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div><section class="mf-section-18 collapsible-block" id="mf-section-18"> <noscript><img alt="" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/65/Symbol_watching_blue_lashes_high_contrast.svg/25px-Symbol_watching_blue_lashes_high_contrast.svg.png" decoding="async" width="25" height="26" class="mw-file-element" data-file-width="180" data-file-height="185"></noscript><span class="lazy-image-placeholder" style="width: 25px;height: 26px;" data-src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/65/Symbol_watching_blue_lashes_high_contrast.svg/25px-Symbol_watching_blue_lashes_high_contrast.svg.png" data-alt="" data-width="25" data-height="26" data-srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/65/Symbol_watching_blue_lashes_high_contrast.svg/38px-Symbol_watching_blue_lashes_high_contrast.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/65/Symbol_watching_blue_lashes_high_contrast.svg/50px-Symbol_watching_blue_lashes_high_contrast.svg.png 2x" data-class="mw-file-element">  You are invited to join the discussion at <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Village_pump_(proposals)#RfC:_Enable_the_mergehistory_permission_for_importers" title="Wikipedia:Village pump (proposals)">Wikipedia:Village pump (proposals) § RfC: Enable the mergehistory permission for importers</a>. <a href="/wiki/User:Chaotic_Enby" title="User:Chaotic Enby">Chaotic Enby</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Chaotic_Enby" title="User talk:Chaotic Enby">talk</a> · <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Chaotic_Enby" title="Special:Contributions/Chaotic Enby">contribs</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Chaotic_Enby-20241120122900-Discussion_at_Wikipedia:Village_pump_(proposals)_%C2%A7_RfC:_Enable_the_mergehistory" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">12:29, 20 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-290" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> </section><div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section section-heading" onclick="mfTempOpenSection(19)"><h2 id="Cut-and-paste_move_and_draftification;_unclear_how_to_proceed" data-mw-thread-id="h-Cut-and-paste_move_and_draftification;_unclear_how_to_proceed-20241121023600">Cut-and-paste move and draftification; unclear how to proceed</h2> <a role="button" href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard&action=edit&section=20" title="Edit section: Cut-and-paste move and draftification; unclear how to proceed" class="cdx-button cdx-button--size-large cdx-button--fake-button cdx-button--fake-button--enabled cdx-button--icon-only cdx-button--weight-quiet "> edit </a> <span id='ooui-php-431' class='ext-discussiontools-init-section-overflowMenuButton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-buttonWidget' data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonMenuSelectWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"ellipsis","data":{"itemConfigs":[{"id":"edit","data":{"id":"edit"},"icon":"edit","label":"Edit"}],"resourceLoaderModules":[]},"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-section-overflowMenuButton"]}'><a role='button' tabindex='0' rel='nofollow' class='oo-ui-buttonElement-button'></a><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata">Latest comment: <a href="#c-JJPMaster-20241121030100-Voorts-20241121025500">3 days ago</a>3 comments2 people in discussion</div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div><section class="mf-section-19 collapsible-block" id="mf-section-19"> <a href="/wiki/User:MD_Hydrogen_123" title="User:MD Hydrogen 123">MD Hydrogen 123</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:MD_Hydrogen_123" title="User talk:MD Hydrogen 123">talk</a> · <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/MD_Hydrogen_123" title="Special:Contributions/MD Hydrogen 123">contribs</a> · <a href="/wiki/Special:DeletedContributions/MD_Hydrogen_123" title="Special:DeletedContributions/MD Hydrogen 123">deleted contribs</a> · <a href="/wiki/Special:Log/MD_Hydrogen_123" title="Special:Log/MD Hydrogen 123">logs</a> · <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3AAbuseLog&wpSearchUser=MD+Hydrogen+123">filter log</a> · <a href="/wiki/Special:Block/MD_Hydrogen_123" title="Special:Block/MD Hydrogen 123">block user</a> · <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3ALog%2Fblock&page=User%3AMD+Hydrogen+123">block log</a>) did a <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:C%26P" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:C&P">cut-and-paste move</a> of <a href="/w/index.php?title=2024%E2%80%9325_Federation_Cup_(Bangladesh)_group_A&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="2024–25 Federation Cup (Bangladesh) group A (page does not exist)">2024–25 Federation Cup (Bangladesh) group A</a> to <a href="/wiki/Template:2024%E2%80%9325_Federation_Cup_(Bangladesh)_group_A" title="Template:2024–25 Federation Cup (Bangladesh) group A">Template:2024–25 Federation Cup (Bangladesh) group A</a> following a message placed on their talk page asking if they meant to create the article there. I then requested a <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:HISTMERGE" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:HISTMERGE">history merge</a> on the latter page, but withdrew this request after reading <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:NOTHISTMERGE" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:NOTHISTMERGE">WP:NOTHISTMERGE</a>, since MD was the only significant contributor to either page. Between the request and withdrawal, <a href="/wiki/User:Cooldudeseven7" title="User:Cooldudeseven7">Cooldudeseven7</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Cooldudeseven7" title="User talk:Cooldudeseven7">talk</a> · <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Cooldudeseven7" title="Special:Contributions/Cooldudeseven7">contribs</a> · <a href="/wiki/Special:DeletedContributions/Cooldudeseven7" title="Special:DeletedContributions/Cooldudeseven7">deleted contribs</a> · <a href="/wiki/Special:Log/Cooldudeseven7" title="Special:Log/Cooldudeseven7">logs</a> · <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3AAbuseLog&wpSearchUser=Cooldudeseven7">filter log</a> · <a href="/wiki/Special:Block/Cooldudeseven7" title="Special:Block/Cooldudeseven7">block user</a> · <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3ALog%2Fblock&page=User%3ACooldudeseven7">block log</a>), unaware of the C&P move, draftified <a href="/w/index.php?title=Draft:2024%E2%80%9325_Federation_Cup_(Bangladesh)_group_A&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Draft:2024–25 Federation Cup (Bangladesh) group A (page does not exist)">the page</a>, meaning that the original page and the moved page now had diverging histories. I was going to nominate the now draft for G6 deletion, but I don't think that applies, because it is not holding up a clean move. <a href="/wiki/User:JJPMaster" title="User:JJPMaster">JJP</a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:JJPMaster" title="User talk:JJPMaster">Mas</a><a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/JJPMaster" title="Special:Contributions/JJPMaster">ter</a> (<a href="/wiki/She_(pronoun)" title="She (pronoun)">she</a>/<a href="/wiki/Singular_they" title="Singular they">they</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-JJPMaster-20241121023600-Cut-and-paste_move_and_draftification;_unclear_how_to_proceed" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:36, 21 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-291" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>I've deleted the draft per G6 as it was created in the incorrect namespace and no other substantive edits were made to the page requiring a HISTMERGE. <a href="/wiki/User:Voorts" title="User:Voorts">voorts</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Voorts" title="User talk:Voorts">talk</a>/<a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Voorts" title="Special:Contributions/Voorts">contributions</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Voorts-20241121025500-JJPMaster-20241121023600" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:55, 21 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-292" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>Thank you! <a href="/wiki/User:JJPMaster" title="User:JJPMaster">JJP</a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:JJPMaster" title="User talk:JJPMaster">Mas</a><a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/JJPMaster" title="Special:Contributions/JJPMaster">ter</a> (<a href="/wiki/She_(pronoun)" title="She (pronoun)">she</a>/<a href="/wiki/Singular_they" title="Singular they">they</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-JJPMaster-20241121030100-Voorts-20241121025500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">03:01, 21 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-293" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd></dl></dd></dl> </section><div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section section-heading" onclick="mfTempOpenSection(20)"><h2 id="Is_WP:RECALL_a_policy?" data-mw-thread-id="h-Is_WP:RECALL_a_policy?-20241028191400">Is WP:RECALL a policy?</h2> <a role="button" href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard&action=edit&section=21" title="Edit section: Is WP:RECALL a policy?" class="cdx-button cdx-button--size-large cdx-button--fake-button cdx-button--fake-button--enabled cdx-button--icon-only cdx-button--weight-quiet "> edit </a> <span id='ooui-php-432' class='ext-discussiontools-init-section-overflowMenuButton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-buttonWidget' data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonMenuSelectWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"ellipsis","data":{"itemConfigs":[{"id":"edit","data":{"id":"edit"},"icon":"edit","label":"Edit"}],"resourceLoaderModules":[]},"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-section-overflowMenuButton"]}'><a role='button' tabindex='0' rel='nofollow' class='oo-ui-buttonElement-button'></a><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata">Latest comment: <a href="#c-Compassionate727-20241121142900-Is_WP:RECALL_a_policy?">2 days ago</a>72 comments42 people in discussion</div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div><section class="mf-section-20 collapsible-block" id="mf-section-20"> <div class="boilerplate discussion-archived mw-archivedtalk" style="background-color: var(--background-color-progressive-subtle, #f5f3ef); color: var(--color-base, inherit); overflow:auto; margin: 1em 0 0 0; padding: 0 10px 0 10px; border: 1px solid var(--border-color-subtle, #aaa)"> <div class="boilerplate-header"> <dl><dd>The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section. A summary of the conclusions reached follows. <dl><dd>There is a consensus that <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrator_recall" title="Wikipedia:Administrator recall">Wikipedia:Administrator recall</a> should not be marked as policy. Some editors noted that the discussion adopting it as policy was widely advertised and disapproved of this discussion being a basis to undo that. Other editors countered that said discussion was not a sufficiently robust basis to establish <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrator_recall" title="Wikipedia:Administrator recall">Wikipedia:Administrator recall</a> as policy because many were nevertheless unaware of the discussion, some people did not participate because the question was confusing, and the RfC was not specifically about whether the procedure should be policy (rather, it was about whether to have a process). Many editors find it idiosyncratic that a procedure like recall could have binding force but not be policy, but other editors noted that <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Requests_for_adminship" title="Wikipedia:Requests for adminship">Wikipedia:Requests for adminship</a> is the same way; editors also noted that <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Policy" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:Policy">Wikipedia:Policy</a> defines a policy by <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1248585704"><q class="inline-quote-talk">wide acceptance among editors</q>, which the turmoil from the recent recall petitions shows that <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrator_recall" title="Wikipedia:Administrator recall">Wikipedia:Administrator recall</a> does not yet have. Overall, the arguments that the discussion did not establish the <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1248585704"><q class="inline-quote-talk">high level of consensus from the entire community</q> (<a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:PROPOSAL" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:PROPOSAL">WP:PROPOSAL</a>) required to adopt it as such were stronger than the arguments that it did.<div class="paragraphbreak" style="margin-top:0.5em"></div>Nothing about this closure should be construed as disestablishing the recall process, which remains in force. (<a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Non-admin_closure" title="Wikipedia:Non-admin closure">non-admin closure</a>) —<a href="/wiki/User:Compassionate727" title="User:Compassionate727">Compassionate727</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Compassionate727" title="User talk:Compassionate727">T</a>·<a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Compassionate727" title="Special:Contributions/Compassionate727">C</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Compassionate727-20241121142900-Is_WP:RECALL_a_policy?" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">14:29, 21 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-294" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd></dl></dd></dl> <hr> </div> In her otherwise decent close of <a href="/wiki/Special:PermanentLink/1253547916#Administrator_Recall" title="Special:PermanentLink/1253547916">Special:PermanentLink/1253547916#Administrator Recall</a>, <a href="/wiki/User:Maddy_from_Celeste" title="User:Maddy from Celeste">Maddy from Celeste</a> specified that <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1248585704"><q class="inline-quote-talk">Wikipedia:Administrator recall shall be marked as a policy</q> and then <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Administrator_recall&diff=prev&oldid=1253548400">did so</a>. The problem is that the RfC did not ask if the page should be upgraded to a policy nor did anyone in the discussion subsequently propose it, making this aspect of the close a <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:SUPERVOTE" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:SUPERVOTE">supervote</a>. This perhaps happened because Maddy mistook the discussion for a change to an existing policy (<link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1248585704"><q class="inline-quote-talk">On the English Wikipedia, there are no formal requirements for policy changes [...] this RfC is a valid way of figuring out where we want to set the threshold for this particular policy amendment</q>) and/or, as they acknowledged when I <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Maddy_from_Celeste#Admin_recall" title="User talk:Maddy from Celeste">asked about it on their talk page</a>, because they forgot that we have an <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:PAG#Proposals" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:PAG">explicit process for proposing new policies</a>. Nevertheless Maddy has said that <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1248585704"><q class="inline-quote-talk">given the significant developments these last two days, [they] do not feel comfortable making any unilateral changes [to the close] at this point</q>. So as a partial challenge of that close, I'm asking: is <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrator_recall" title="Wikipedia:Administrator recall">Wikipedia:Administrator recall</a> a policy page? – <a href="/wiki/User:Joe_Roe" title="User:Joe Roe">Joe</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Joe_Roe" title="User talk:Joe Roe">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Joe_Roe-20241028191400-Is_WP:RECALL_a_policy?" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:14, 28 October 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-295" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>You are misrepresenting what I wrote. I refer to my comments <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Maddy_from_Celeste#Admin_recall" title="User talk:Maddy from Celeste">on my talk page</a>. -- <a href="/wiki/User:Maddy_from_Celeste" title="User:Maddy from Celeste">Maddy from Celeste</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Maddy_from_Celeste" title="User talk:Maddy from Celeste">WAVEDASH</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Maddy_from_Celeste-20241028192000-Joe_Roe-20241028191400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:20, 28 October 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-296" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>Ah, the third (for now) active discussion about RECALL live at AN - shows that it's totally not a controversial idea at all! <a href="/wiki/User:GiantSnowman" title="User:GiantSnowman">Giant</a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:GiantSnowman" title="User talk:GiantSnowman">Snowman</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-GiantSnowman-20241028192300-Maddy_from_Celeste-20241028192000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:23, 28 October 2024 (UTC)</a> <span id="ooui-php-297" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>I am currently running a pool on when RECALL will be brought to ArbCom. Squares are filling up fast. Contact me for information on how to bet, and how to send me the money for safekeeping in the mean time. <a href="/wiki/User:Floquenbeam" title="User:Floquenbeam">Floquenbeam</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Floquenbeam" title="User talk:Floquenbeam">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Floquenbeam-20241028192900-GiantSnowman-20241028192300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:29, 28 October 2024 (UTC)</a> <span id="ooui-php-298" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <ul><li>Per <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:POLICIES" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:POLICIES">WP:POLICIES</a>, "Policies have wide acceptance among editors". It seems clear to me that this is not the case with this recall process. <a href="/wiki/User:Sandstein" title="User:Sandstein"> Sandstein </a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Sandstein-20241028194000-Joe_Roe-20241028191400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:40, 28 October 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-299" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></li> <li>There's probably no one who argued more strongly than me against making this trainwreck into a policy. But Maddy correctly read the consensus as saying that this should be adopted and put into effect (and not simply as a trial). So if the community has reached a consensus to put something into effect, that can lead to a desysop, I cannot see how that would be anything other than a policy. If other editors are just now waking up to the fact that they should have joined me in speaking up earlier, well, it's too late now. At some point, we will have to have an RfC to revoke this policy, but for the time being, it's a policy. --<a href="/wiki/User:Tryptofish" title="User:Tryptofish">Tryptofish</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Tryptofish" title="User talk:Tryptofish">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Tryptofish-20241028200000-Joe_Roe-20241028191400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:00, 28 October 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd><link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1248585704"><q class="inline-quote-talk">This should be adopted and put into effect</q> – I agree with that, it's the "policy" designation that seems unwarranted, given the lack of an explicit proposal to adopt it as one. I want to avoid on the one hand watering down the definition of a policy as those guidelines and processes which have the highest level of consensus on the project (because come on, this is clearly not that!) and on the other making it harder to improve the current process through normal editing and consensus-building. Pretty much everyone seems to agree that this process needs amendment, but usually the way to make non-trivial amendments to a policy is through an RfC, and pretty much everyone also agrees that we don't want more RfCs on this... – <a href="/wiki/User:Joe_Roe" title="User:Joe Roe">Joe</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Joe_Roe" title="User talk:Joe Roe">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Joe_Roe-20241028200600-Tryptofish-20241028200000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:06, 28 October 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-301" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>I see that distinction as wikilawyering. --<a href="/wiki/User:Tryptofish" title="User:Tryptofish">Tryptofish</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Tryptofish" title="User talk:Tryptofish">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Tryptofish-20241028201000-Joe_Roe-20241028200600" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:10, 28 October 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-302" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>We would have done if we had been aware of it! (see previous section re:lack of notice). <a href="/wiki/User:GiantSnowman" title="User:GiantSnowman">Giant</a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:GiantSnowman" title="User talk:GiantSnowman">Snowman</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-GiantSnowman-20241028204200-Tryptofish-20241028201000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:42, 28 October 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-303" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>Yeah, that's an issue. But the people who pushed this through insisted that they did everything required in order to publicize the discussions, and they have a point. --<a href="/wiki/User:Tryptofish" title="User:Tryptofish">Tryptofish</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Tryptofish" title="User talk:Tryptofish">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Tryptofish-20241028204800-GiantSnowman-20241028204200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:48, 28 October 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-304" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></li> <li>Does it matter if it's a policy vs. a procedure? Is RFA a policy? ~~ <a href="/wiki/User:Jessintime" title="User:Jessintime">Jessintime</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Jessintime" title="User talk:Jessintime">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Jessintime-20241028200700-Joe_Roe-20241028191400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:07, 28 October 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-305" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>Yes, in practice it's considerably harder to change a page tagged as a policy; and nope. – <a href="/wiki/User:Joe_Roe" title="User:Joe Roe">Joe</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Joe_Roe" title="User talk:Joe Roe">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Joe_Roe-20241028203300-Jessintime-20241028200700" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:33, 28 October 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-306" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd></dl></li> <li>As a process (or policy) it's far from ready, as the Graham87 petition and all the various discussions around the project-space are showing. It's not a case of ironing out small details; the very fundamentals are being questioned and challenged. More workshopping is needed. WP:AR should be returned to draft policy status and discussion centralised on its talk page. <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/SuperMarioMan" title="Special:Contributions/SuperMarioMan">SuperMarioMan</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:SuperMarioMan" title="User talk:SuperMarioMan">Talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-SuperMarioMan-20241028201100-Joe_Roe-20241028191400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:11, 28 October 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-307" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>What parts are far from ready? What aspects of admin recall that haven't already been discussed during phases I and II of the RfA 2024 discussion and subsequently still need to be hashed out? <a href="/wiki/User:Voorts" title="User:Voorts">voorts</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Voorts" title="User talk:Voorts">talk</a>/<a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Voorts" title="Special:Contributions/Voorts">contributions</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Voorts-20241028212400-SuperMarioMan-20241028201100" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:24, 28 October 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-308" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>Well, within the last 48 hours alone, questions posed on WT:AR have included timing of petition closures, the structure of the petition page and naming of its sections, the maximum runtime for petitions, early closure rules (or lack thereof), and the applicability of <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:SNOW" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:SNOW">WP:SNOW</a> (now at WP:VPP). Valid, key questions. I think a large part of why they're being asked now is because up until now, no one had much idea of how the policy/process would actually work in practice. As currently presented, the content of WP:AR feels scant, hardly a solid foundation for launching petitions. And the attempted early close and subsequent re-opening of the Graham87 petition further damage the process's credibility. <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/SuperMarioMan" title="Special:Contributions/SuperMarioMan">SuperMarioMan</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:SuperMarioMan" title="User talk:SuperMarioMan">Talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-SuperMarioMan-20241028224200-Voorts-20241028212400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:42, 28 October 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-309" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd></dl></dd></dl></li> <li>"<a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:POLICIES" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:POLICIES">Policies have wide acceptance among editors</a>". This policy/procedure does not have that level of support, as has been evident over the past 48 hours. Per SuperMarioMan above, this policy/procedure should be temporarily put on hold and then workshopped extensively to make it better. <a href="/wiki/User:Daniel" title="User:Daniel">Daniel</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Daniel" title="User talk:Daniel">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Daniel-20241028201700-Joe_Roe-20241028191400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:17, 28 October 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-310" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>Agree with this take, assuming it can even be made better, which I'm not sold on. <a href="/wiki/User:Swatjester" title="User:Swatjester">⇒</a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Swatjester" title="User talk:Swatjester">SWATJester</a> Shoot Blues, Tell VileRat! <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Swatjester-20241028220600-Daniel-20241028201700" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:06, 28 October 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-311" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd> <dd>Opposition largely seems to be coming from admins, which makes sense but is hardly representative of editors at large. I would advise admins to take a step back and accept the wider community's opinion here. <a href="/wiki/User:Horse_Eye%27s_Back" title="User:Horse Eye's Back">Horse Eye's Back</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Horse_Eye%27s_Back" title="User talk:Horse Eye's Back">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Horse_Eye's_Back-20241028204600-Daniel-20241028201700" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:46, 28 October 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-312" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>I kind of have to agree? I know it's a surprise that the policy made it through but it appears to have done so on a legitimate basis? To those folks challenging the close, is there any example of irregularity or a flawed read of consensus? <a href="/wiki/User:Andrevan" class="mw-redirect" title="User:Andrevan">Andre</a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Andrevan" class="mw-redirect" title="User talk:Andrevan">🚐</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Andrevan-20241028205200-Horse_Eye's_Back-20241028204600" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:52, 28 October 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-313" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd> <dd>While it is true that because this involves admins and thus admins shouldn't try to discourage the process, it still is a matter that this recall process will need to be managed by admins and thus has to confirm within the framework of other processes across the board, and that's where the debate seems to be happening, that as currently written and executed, it leaves a lot of missteps that need to be addressed with the help of admins to make sure the process is able to actually work. I don't see this as admins opposing any recall process, just that this one does not have the rigor thst admins experienced in P&G writing can bring to tighten it up and avoid the pitfalls happening now. — <a href="/wiki/User:Masem" title="User:Masem">Masem</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Masem" title="User talk:Masem">t</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Masem-20241029133300-Horse_Eye's_Back-20241028204600" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">13:33, 29 October 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-314" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd></dl></dd></dl></li> <li>No, process not policy. The original proposal didn't include listing it as a policy, most of the !voters didn't opine on whether it should be a policy, and similar pages like <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:RFA" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:RFA">WP:RFA</a> are not policies. The policy is <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators" title="Wikipedia:Administrators">Wikipedia:Administrators</a>, which links to <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:RECALL" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:RECALL">WP:RECALL</a>. That's all we need. — <samp><a href="/wiki/User:Rhododendrites" title="User:Rhododendrites">Rhododendrites</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Rhododendrites" title="User talk:Rhododendrites">talk</a></samp> \\ <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Rhododendrites-20241028205900-Joe_Roe-20241028191400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:59, 28 October 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-315" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> Adding: This isn't to say it shouldn't have the same "force" as <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:RFA" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:RFA">WP:RFA</a>. And regarding notice, being an RfC at VPP and linked from CENT checks enough boxes. IMO the RfC was presented in a confusing way (consensus-for-consensus with a handful of lengthy, fragmented discussions summarized in the background section), but that might just be me, and neither I nor others adequately objected on "this is confusing" grounds to constitute a real obstacle to consensus [about consensus] forming. — <samp><a href="/wiki/User:Rhododendrites" title="User:Rhododendrites">Rhododendrites</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Rhododendrites" title="User talk:Rhododendrites">talk</a></samp> \\ <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Rhododendrites-20241029131600-Joe_Roe-20241028191400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">13:16, 29 October 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-316" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>+1 to both of these comments by Rhododendrites. -- <a href="/wiki/User:Asilvering" title="User:Asilvering">asilvering</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Asilvering" title="User talk:Asilvering">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Asilvering-20241029190400-Rhododendrites-20241029131600" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:04, 29 October 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-317" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd></dl></li> <li>Who's going to be the first non-admin blocked for the lèse-majesté of seeking to recall an admin, per this policy? <a href="/wiki/User:Andy_Dingley" title="User:Andy Dingley">Andy Dingley</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Andy_Dingley" title="User talk:Andy Dingley">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Andy_Dingley-20241028210200-Joe_Roe-20241028191400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:02, 28 October 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-318" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></li> <li>For those editors who say that they didn't know that this was being discussed, I expressed my concerns to <a href="/wiki/User:Theleekycauldron" title="User:Theleekycauldron">theleekycauldron</a>, the admin who oversaw the process, months ago, and you can see that discussion here: <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Theleekycauldron/Archive/2024/May#My_concerns_about_Phase_2" title="User talk:Theleekycauldron/Archive/2024/May">link</a>. Here's a link to a discussion where I tried to get a better process for deciding whether or not it would be policy: <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Administrator_recall/Archive_1#When_is_this_policy?" title="Wikipedia talk:Administrator recall/Archive 1">link</a>. At that time, I think editors really were looking to conduct the decision process more carefully. But that got short-circuited by the RfC here: <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Village_pump_(policy)#Administrator_Recall" title="Wikipedia:Village pump (policy)">link</a>, which established the present consensus (however one wants to characterize that). You will see me arguing strenuously, but to little effect, that this was going to go badly. I and others argued that it was premature to hold that RfC, but <a href="/wiki/User:Barkeep49" title="User:Barkeep49">Barkeep49</a> insisted that the time was right. That discussion was at Village pump (policy), and was advertised on CENT, so I really do think editors should have been aware of this earlier. --<a href="/wiki/User:Tryptofish" title="User:Tryptofish">Tryptofish</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Tryptofish" title="User talk:Tryptofish">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Tryptofish-20241028211100-Joe_Roe-20241028191400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:11, 28 October 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-319" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <ul><li>CENT is a bit useless, though. If it had been advertised via a watchlist notice I think there would have been far more participation. <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Black_Kite" title="User talk:Black Kite">Black Kite (talk)</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Black_Kite-20241028211700-Tryptofish-20241028211100" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:17, 28 October 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-320" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>CENT is at the top of this page, right under "Open tasks". Why do we put a useless box at the top of AN and other noticeboards? <a href="/wiki/User:Voorts" title="User:Voorts">voorts</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Voorts" title="User talk:Voorts">talk</a>/<a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Voorts" title="Special:Contributions/Voorts">contributions</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Voorts-20241028212100-Black_Kite-20241028211700" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:21, 28 October 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-321" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <ul><li>Except it isn't very visible, because the AN templates at the top and the TOC pushes it way down below the fold. I tend to notice Watchlist and Sitenotice messages, but not CENT ones. It would probably be useful to transclude CENT to watchlists. <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Black_Kite" title="User talk:Black Kite">Black Kite (talk)</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Black_Kite-20241028213400-Voorts-20241028212100" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:34, 28 October 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-322" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>+1 to adding it to the top of watchlists (or at least someone creating a userscript that does that). <a href="/wiki/User:Voorts" title="User:Voorts">voorts</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Voorts" title="User talk:Voorts">talk</a>/<a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Voorts" title="Special:Contributions/Voorts">contributions</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Voorts-20241028213600-Black_Kite-20241028213400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:36, 28 October 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-323" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd></dl></li></ul></dd></dl></li></ul> <dl><dd>I was aware of RFC3 thanks to T:CENT, but the wording of the question in RFC3 was confusing to me, and led me not to comment. I thought it wanted me to read an old RFC and summarize what the consensus was in that, rather than coming to a fresh consensus. –<a href="/wiki/User:Novem_Linguae" title="User:Novem Linguae">Novem Linguae</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Novem_Linguae" title="User talk:Novem Linguae">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Novem_Linguae-20241029060700-Tryptofish-20241028211100" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">06:07, 29 October 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-324" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd></dl></li> <li>I believe Maddy's closure was appropriate. However, the first application of the policy left a lot to be desired. I would like to see the normal editing called out in the close to refine the policy become a lot more vigorous as a result. In particular, we need to decide if petitions are allowed to devolve into a RRFA prequel (in which case 30 days is ridiculous) or if they are not (in which case stricter guidance on commentary and discussion is sorely missing).<a href="/wiki/User:Tazerdadog" title="User:Tazerdadog">Tazerdadog</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Tazerdadog" title="User talk:Tazerdadog">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Tazerdadog-20241028214500-Joe_Roe-20241028191400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:45, 28 October 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-325" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></li> <li>Comment: If editors believe that admin recall should not have the force of policy, at this point there are two options as I see it: <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:CLOSECHALLENGE" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:CLOSECHALLENGE">close review</a> of the RfC or start a new RfC seeking to strip admin recall of its status. Demanding that the policy status of admin recall be immediately stripped and that it be sent back to the drawing board is not how we establish and maintain consensus. <a href="/wiki/User:Voorts" title="User:Voorts">voorts</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Voorts" title="User talk:Voorts">talk</a>/<a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Voorts" title="Special:Contributions/Voorts">contributions</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Voorts-20241028222000-Joe_Roe-20241028191400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:20, 28 October 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-326" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>That's what this is. A close review. – <a href="/wiki/User:Joe_Roe" title="User:Joe Roe">Joe</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Joe_Roe" title="User talk:Joe Roe">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Joe_Roe-20241029073500-Voorts-20241028222000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">07:35, 29 October 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-327" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>If only people read a little past the heading before commenting. -- <a href="/wiki/User:Maddy_from_Celeste" title="User:Maddy from Celeste">Maddy from Celeste</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Maddy_from_Celeste" title="User talk:Maddy from Celeste">WAVEDASH</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Maddy_from_Celeste-20241029085000-Joe_Roe-20241029073500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">08:50, 29 October 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-328" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>Oops. My bad. <a href="/wiki/Template:Self-trout" title="Template:Self-trout"><noscript><img alt="trout" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/16/Rainbow_trout_transparent.png/20px-Rainbow_trout_transparent.png" decoding="async" width="20" height="20" class="mw-file-element" data-file-width="327" data-file-height="327"></noscript><span class="lazy-image-placeholder" style="width: 20px;height: 20px;" data-src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/16/Rainbow_trout_transparent.png/20px-Rainbow_trout_transparent.png" data-alt="trout" data-width="20" data-height="20" data-srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/16/Rainbow_trout_transparent.png/30px-Rainbow_trout_transparent.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/16/Rainbow_trout_transparent.png/40px-Rainbow_trout_transparent.png 2x" data-class="mw-file-element"> </a> Self-trout. <a href="/wiki/User:Voorts" title="User:Voorts">voorts</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Voorts" title="User talk:Voorts">talk</a>/<a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Voorts" title="Special:Contributions/Voorts">contributions</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Voorts-20241029172800-Maddy_from_Celeste-20241029085000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:28, 29 October 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-329" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:CONLEVEL" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:CONLEVEL">WP:CONLEVEL</a> is pretty clear that <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1248585704"><q class="inline-quote-talk">Consensus among a limited group of editors, at one place and time, cannot override community consensus on a wider scale.</q> It's overwhelmingly clear from the response to the recall attempt on Graham that there's not actually a favorable community consensus on a wider scale than the couple of dozen editors who happened to respond to that not-particularly well-publicized RFC. Instead of demanding that we force through a bad process, perhaps consider that the original close was not reflective of what the broader community actually feels about this. <a href="/wiki/User:Swatjester" title="User:Swatjester">⇒</a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Swatjester" title="User talk:Swatjester">SWATJester</a> Shoot Blues, Tell VileRat! <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Swatjester-20241028223300-Joe_Roe-20241028191400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:33, 28 October 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-330" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>You're conflating two different things; I oppose the recall attempt but generally support the process, even though it's not perfect. (I haven't reviewed the discussion and don't have an opinion on the policy or not question yet.) <a href="/wiki/User:Legoktm" title="User:Legoktm">Legoktm</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Legoktm" title="User talk:Legoktm">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Legoktm-20241028234500-Swatjester-20241028223300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:45, 28 October 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-331" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>As someone who also opposes the specific recall, I'll add my much more noncommittal +1 to that. I don't really care too much about the specifics of the process and I'm supportive of considering it much more fluid and amendable than typical until a few months and/or recall petitions have passed, but I am overall supportive of having a process even if it's one that needs to be worked on (and even if I do believe we have another community initiated process that's sufficient, albeit only as a side effect and with likely a much higher... "activation energy", so to speak). <a href="/wiki/User:Alpha3031" title="User:Alpha3031">Alpha3031</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Alpha3031" title="User talk:Alpha3031">t</a> • <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Alpha3031" title="Special:Contributions/Alpha3031">c</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Alpha3031-20241029060600-Legoktm-20241028234500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">06:06, 29 October 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-332" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd></dl></dd> <dd>This (and a bunch of other comments here) seem to be a back-channel way to revert the consensus process rather than any of the official ways to revert an RFC. Everyone agrees that this has been an incredibly rocky start for the process, other people are trying to fix it. But a bunch of editors suddenly complaining about the process, no matter how respected, does not suddenly revert consensus. In these three threads, editors who have concerns about this project are (rightfully) way more likely to comment now than the editors who already agree with calling it a policy. I encourage the former to follow the proper way instead of claiming lack of consensus without proof. <a href="/wiki/User:Soni" title="User:Soni">Soni</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Soni" title="User talk:Soni">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Soni-20241029024500-Swatjester-20241028223300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:45, 29 October 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-333" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd> <dd>It was well advertised, I was aware of it but didn't comment or read much of it. If a well-publicised well-attended RfC closed less than a week ago is 'limited consensus at one place and time' then I have no clue what the wider community consensus ever could be.</dd> <dd>If you didn't participate in an RfC for whatever reason and disagree with the result there are ways to go about it, citing CONLEVEL isn't one of them. <a href="/wiki/User:Traumnovelle" title="User:Traumnovelle">Traumnovelle</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Traumnovelle" title="User talk:Traumnovelle">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Traumnovelle-20241029055200-Swatjester-20241028223300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">05:52, 29 October 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-334" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd></dl></li> <li>The distinction between policy and procedure in this case may well be worth diggin into, but the idea that this has to stop because "admins didn't know about it" is the fault of those admins, as it was on CENT and in the last issue of the admin newsletter, and the overall RFA 2024 process has been going on for.... I dunno feels like forever. I didn't think it would pass, and I think this first attempt at using it has thrown some serious issues with it into the public eye, but this wasn't snuck in any back door. <a href="/wiki/User:Just_Step_Sideways" title="User:Just Step Sideways">Just Step Sideways</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Just_Step_Sideways" title="User talk:Just Step Sideways">from this world ..... today</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Just_Step_Sideways-20241029022500-Joe_Roe-20241028191400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:25, 29 October 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-335" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></li> <li>Yes, it is policy and enjoys consensus. The whole process was well advertised and had a lot of participation. Could it of been more? Sure, but it was sufficient. There are things that can be worked out with the process as shown, but there is no question that there is consensus to have a process. So basically, since this is a close review, Endorse the close. <a href="/wiki/User:PackMecEng" title="User:PackMecEng">PackMecEng</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:PackMecEng" title="User talk:PackMecEng">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-PackMecEng-20241029131600-Joe_Roe-20241028191400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">13:16, 29 October 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-336" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></li> <li>The policy modified is primarily <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators" title="Wikipedia:Administrators">Wikipedia:Administrators</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:RECALL" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:RECALL">WP:RECALL</a> is really just the procedures for how to follow the policy. — <a href="/wiki/User:Xaosflux" title="User:Xaosflux">xaosflux</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Xaosflux" title="User talk:Xaosflux">Talk</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Xaosflux-20241029133100-Joe_Roe-20241028191400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">13:31, 29 October 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-337" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></li> <li>Fourth time is the charm huh? Yes, it is a policy. How many times do we need to ask this question before we accept it as such? <a href="/wiki/User:Fanfanboy" title="User:Fanfanboy">fanfanboy</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Fanfanboy" title="User talk:Fanfanboy">(<s>block</s> talk)</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Fanfanboy-20241029135400-Joe_Roe-20241028191400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">13:54, 29 October 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-338" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>This question has not been asked before. Please read the top of the section if you have not already. – <a href="/wiki/User:Joe_Roe_(mobile)" class="mw-redirect" title="User:Joe Roe (mobile)">Joe</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Joe_Roe_(mobile)" class="mw-redirect" title="User talk:Joe Roe (mobile)">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Joe_Roe_(mobile)-20241029184400-Fanfanboy-20241029135400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:44, 29 October 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-339" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd></dl></li> <li>On the actual question Joe is asking, namely "should <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:RECALL" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:RECALL">WP:RECALL</a> have a {{<a href="/wiki/Template:Policy" title="Template:Policy">policy</a>}} tag, my response is that I don't especially care one way or the other; the tag at the top of the page doesn't change what actually matters, which is that the process has teeth (i.e. if an RRFA is failed, a bureaucrat will actually desysop the admin in question). But since at least Joe cares, sure, remove the tag, it was never authorized to be there. <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Mach61" title="User talk:Mach61">Mach61</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Mach61-20241029144300-Joe_Roe-20241028191400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">14:43, 29 October 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-340" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></li> <li>Maddy's close was correct. I happen to think it's more process than policy because it's a process Admin X goes through to keep or lose their Admin flag. It's not a policy because there's no clear X/Y outcome. It's petition pass/fail, RRFA pass/fail. As both of those are subjective, it is not a policy situation. However it is a policy in that (using the current example) Graham cannot close Diletantte's petition because they filed it per the framework established. It has bugs as any new process does. Let it run and sort it out before the next. Disclosure, current petition opposer but not involved in RFCs as far as I can recall <a href="/wiki/User:Star_Mississippi" title="User:Star Mississippi">Star</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Star_Mississippi" title="User talk:Star Mississippi">Mississippi</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Star_Mississippi-20241029153900-Joe_Roe-20241028191400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:39, 29 October 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-341" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></li> <li>Is <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:RFA" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:RFA">WP:RFA</a> a policy? No. Is <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:ADMINELECT" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:ADMINELECT">WP:ADMINELECT</a> a policy? No. Is <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:RECALL" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:RECALL">WP:RECALL</a> a policy? Also no. <a href="/wiki/User:AirshipJungleman29" title="User:AirshipJungleman29">~~ AirshipJungleman29</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:AirshipJungleman29" title="User talk:AirshipJungleman29">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-AirshipJungleman29-20241029154300-Joe_Roe-20241028191400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:43, 29 October 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-342" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></li></ul> <dl><dd>Yes, admin recall is a policy: it has wide acceptance ("<a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:CONLEVEL" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:CONLEVEL">global consensus</a>") and was thoroughly vetted by the community. Three separate RFCs over the course of a year, with over 100 editors participating, advertised at the Village Pump, AN, CENT, the Admin Newsletter, user talk page notices, and watchlist notices. If that doesn't count as thorough vetting and wide acceptance, then nothing will. Admin recall is a standard that must be followed (subject to IAR)--bureaucrats shall desysop following a successful recall--so it's not like a guideline or essay. And anyway, the mechanism by which advanced permissions like sysop are added and removed obviously must be done by policy and not by any lower level of consensus. The reason <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:RECALL" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:RECALL">WP:RECALL</a> should have a {{<a href="/wiki/Template:Policy" title="Template:Policy">policy</a>}} tag is because it's the page that documents the policy. To the extent this is a close review (I'm not sure about that), endorse and (involved). <a href="/wiki/User:Levivich" title="User:Levivich">Levivich</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Levivich" title="User talk:Levivich">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Levivich-20241029163200-Joe_Roe-20241028191400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:32, 29 October 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-343" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>Another reason it's policy: the third RFC was held at VPP, which is the page for changing policies. AFAIK nobody at any point suggested this was the wrong page. <a href="/wiki/User:Levivich" title="User:Levivich">Levivich</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Levivich" title="User talk:Levivich">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Levivich-20241031191800-Levivich-20241029163200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:18, 31 October 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-344" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd></dl></dd> <dd>No, it's not a policy This is blatantly obvious. The RfC that was concluded indicating it is a policy did NOT include any mention whatsoever of asking if it should be policy. None. Nada. Zip. Nothing. In fact, several people who commented on the RfC noted that details of the policy still needed to be hashed out. The fact is, there was no vote to make this policy. <a href="/wiki/User:Maddy_from_Celeste" title="User:Maddy from Celeste">User:Maddy from Celeste</a>, I appreciate the effort you put into making this close, but this close is a mistake in making this a policy. The question was whether the recall process has consensus, NOT if the recall process should be policy. --<a href="/wiki/User:Hammersoft" title="User:Hammersoft">Hammersoft</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Hammersoft" title="User talk:Hammersoft">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Hammersoft-20241029183000-Joe_Roe-20241028191400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:30, 29 October 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-345" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd></dl> <ul><li>I don't really mind whether the contents of <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:RRfA" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:RRfA">WP:RRfA</a> are moved into <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:ADMIN" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:ADMIN">WP:ADMIN</a> instead, but that particular sub-section I think has the status of a procedural policy. I also don't feel all policies have the same barrier to change, if that's the main concern. Changing a fundamental part of <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:NPOV" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:NPOV">WP:NPOV</a> requires a very different level of consensus compared to a policy with 15 talk page watchers. There are things with admin recall that will likely need tweaking; I think reasonably advertised talk page discussion has the ability to make such change. Re procedure: I don't think procedural policies need an explicit vote to that effect. Many current procedural policies didn't, eg AFAICT <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:File_mover" title="Wikipedia:File mover">WP:File mover</a> was promoted after <a href="/wiki/User:Xaosflux" title="User:Xaosflux">xaosflux</a> <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:File_mover/Archive_1#Not_an_essay_-_move_to_upgrade_status">noticed</a> felt it shouldn't be tagged as an essay, and nobody objected. Ditto with <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:IPBE" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:IPBE">WP:IPBE</a> per <a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Village_pump_(policy)/Archive_37#IP_block_exemption%2C_last_call">[1]</a><a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:IP_block_exemption&diff=prev&oldid=196823153">[2]</a>.<div class="paragraphbreak" style="margin-top:0.5em"></div>Ultimately, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:RRFA" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:RRFA">WP:RRFA</a> details procedure on a process that many in the community likely care about the details of, and said thing is built up by defined rules approved by consensus, as opposed to fuzzy conventions built up over time by trial-and-error. I think these are the some of the hallmarks of procedural policy. <a href="/wiki/User:ProcrastinatingReader" title="User:ProcrastinatingReader">ProcrastinatingReader</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:ProcrastinatingReader" title="User talk:ProcrastinatingReader">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-ProcrastinatingReader-20241029231100-Joe_Roe-20241028191400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:11, 29 October 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-346" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd><link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1248585704"><q class="inline-quote-talk">WP:File mover was promoted after xaosflux noticed felt it shouldn't be tagged as an essay, and nobody objected</q>. <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:FMR" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:FMR">WP:FMR</a> appears to still be an essay. If you read the box at the top of the page carefully, I don't think it's claiming to be a policy or guideline. Instead, someone wrote a custom ombox that seems to be rather unclear, instead of using the standard {{<a href="/wiki/Template:Information_page" title="Template:Information page">Information page</a>}} tag. –<a href="/wiki/User:Novem_Linguae" title="User:Novem Linguae">Novem Linguae</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Novem_Linguae" title="User talk:Novem Linguae">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Novem_Linguae-20241030043200-ProcrastinatingReader-20241029231100" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">04:32, 30 October 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-347" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>It's categorised under <a href="/wiki/Category:Wikipedia_procedural_policies" title="Category:Wikipedia procedural policies">Category:Wikipedia procedural policies</a> and listed at <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:List_of_policies#Procedural" title="Wikipedia:List of policies">Wikipedia:List_of_policies#Procedural</a>. In any case, there's <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:IPBE" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:IPBE">WP:IPBE</a> and these are just the first two I checked. <a href="/wiki/User:ProcrastinatingReader" title="User:ProcrastinatingReader">ProcrastinatingReader</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:ProcrastinatingReader" title="User talk:ProcrastinatingReader">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-ProcrastinatingReader-20241030071200-Novem_Linguae-20241030043200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">07:12, 30 October 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-348" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd> <dd>I suspect all the userright procedural policies fall under the same bucket. The RfC behind them usually just asked if such a userright should be created / unbundled. The creation of a procedural policy page was either done by a single editor, or said by the closer to be done as in <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Page_mover/Archive_1#RFC_-_Proposed:_%22Page_mover%22_permission_to_be_created" title="Wikipedia talk:Page mover/Archive 1">page mover's case</a>, but was not the RfC question explicitly, and until the closer mentioned it, nobody else did afaict. My point being, I suspect very few of the current procedural policies had explicit confirmation votes. <a href="/wiki/User:ProcrastinatingReader" title="User:ProcrastinatingReader">ProcrastinatingReader</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:ProcrastinatingReader" title="User talk:ProcrastinatingReader">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-ProcrastinatingReader-20241030071700-Novem_Linguae-20241030043200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">07:17, 30 October 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-349" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>I've started <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:File_mover#Is_this_page_a_policy?" title="Wikipedia talk:File mover">Wikipedia_talk:File_mover#Is_this_page_a_policy?</a> to work on fixing these odd pages that have a policy category but no policy template and little original talk page discussion about promoting them to policies. –<a href="/wiki/User:Novem_Linguae" title="User:Novem Linguae">Novem Linguae</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Novem_Linguae" title="User talk:Novem Linguae">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Novem_Linguae-20241030214300-ProcrastinatingReader-20241030071700" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:43, 30 October 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-350" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></li> <li>It's a rule, but it's not ready to be policy yet. Let the procedure evolve into a more final form and let the naysayers finish processing their defeat. Then hold a RfC about promoting it to policy.—<a href="/wiki/User:S_Marshall" title="User:S Marshall">S Marshall</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:S_Marshall" title="User talk:S Marshall">T</a>/<a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/S_Marshall" title="Special:Contributions/S Marshall">C</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-S_Marshall-20241030164300-Joe_Roe-20241028191400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:43, 30 October 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-351" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></li></ul> <ul><li>Leaving aside the questions of whether it has consensus or not (I personally think the final version of the procedure should have been put to an up or down discussion rather than having a weird RfC to determine if a previous RfC had consensus, which would’ve avoided the issues we have now), I don’t see how we can ask crats to desysop admins under this procedure without it having the force of policy. <a href="/wiki/User:Galobtter" title="User:Galobtter">Galobtter</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Galobtter" title="User talk:Galobtter">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Galobtter-20241030203400-Joe_Roe-20241028191400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:34, 30 October 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-352" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>That's a very good, and important, point. If, hypothetically, an admin has a petition that reaches the required number, and either refuses to engage in a new RfA or fails to pass it, there could be a real question as to whether any bureaucrat has the authority to take action. --<a href="/wiki/User:Tryptofish" title="User:Tryptofish">Tryptofish</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Tryptofish" title="User talk:Tryptofish">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Tryptofish-20241030204600-Galobtter-20241030203400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:46, 30 October 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-353" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd></dl></li></ul> <dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd>Given that the RfC wasn't worded to ask to make it policy, the answer is no. There is no policy that supports a bureaucrat having the authority to remove the flag based on this procedure. --<a href="/wiki/User:Hammersoft" title="User:Hammersoft">Hammersoft</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Hammersoft" title="User talk:Hammersoft">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Hammersoft-20241030205100-Tryptofish-20241030204600" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:51, 30 October 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-354" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>It's a nonsense! <a href="/wiki/User:GiantSnowman" title="User:GiantSnowman">Giant</a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:GiantSnowman" title="User talk:GiantSnowman">Snowman</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-GiantSnowman-20241030213000-Hammersoft-20241030205100" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:30, 30 October 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-355" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>I've <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:BN#Role_of_bureaucrats_in_administrator_recall_process" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:BN">asked the 'crats</a>. <a href="/wiki/User:Levivich" title="User:Levivich">Levivich</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Levivich" title="User talk:Levivich">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Levivich-20241030213200-GiantSnowman-20241030213000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:32, 30 October 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-356" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd> <dd>I guess that will be up to the crats. One of their roles is to provide a final sanity check on sysops/desysops, so I don't think it's a bad thing to allow them some discretion during the first few runs of this new process. – <a href="/wiki/User:Joe_Roe" title="User:Joe Roe">Joe</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Joe_Roe" title="User talk:Joe Roe">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Joe_Roe-20241031070200-Galobtter-20241030203400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">07:02, 31 October 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-357" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd></dl></dd></dl> <ul><li>Remove the "policy" designation I think that the close was a pretty good one for it's narrow scope in the chain of events that led to this, albeit requiring some expert derivation because the question was not clearly in the RFC making it what I would call an edge case regarding being the right close. But in the big picture (including that chain of events), a high impact policy should be something which had every sentence in it carefully reviewed, has been optimized, and has had wide advertisement/participation to adopt it, and where considering it to be policy a clear part of the question. IMO none or hardly none of those criteria has been satisfied. Further, the initial general decision (in essence saying that there shall be a recall process) was only the starting point of what should have been a thorough process that included all of the above and which in my opinion it wasn't and didn't include all of the above. Let's just take a little extra time to do all of the above instead of having this cloud eternally hanging over the recall process. Sincerely, North8000 (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:North8000#top" title="User talk:North8000">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-North8000-20241030213200-Joe_Roe-20241028191400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:32, 30 October 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-358" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></li></ul> The ship has been launched, so let it sail for a whole year. Than review it. <a href="/wiki/User:GoodDay" title="User:GoodDay">GoodDay</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:GoodDay" title="User talk:GoodDay">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-GoodDay-20241030213800-Is_WP:RECALL_a_policy?" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:38, 30 October 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-359" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>Fingers crossed there's an iceberg soon... <a href="/wiki/User:GiantSnowman" title="User:GiantSnowman">Giant</a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:GiantSnowman" title="User talk:GiantSnowman">Snowman</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-GiantSnowman-20241030215300-GoodDay-20241030213800" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:53, 30 October 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-360" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>I think the current petition could well be described that way. --<a href="/wiki/User:Tryptofish" title="User:Tryptofish">Tryptofish</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Tryptofish" title="User talk:Tryptofish">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Tryptofish-20241030223000-GiantSnowman-20241030215300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:30, 30 October 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-361" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>What an interesting mixed metaphor ... <a href="/wiki/User:Pppery" title="User:Pppery">* Pppery *</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Pppery" title="User talk:Pppery">it has begun...</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Pppery-20241031034100-Tryptofish-20241030223000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">03:41, 31 October 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-362" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>Well despite some initial doubt over the wisdom of the first recall including by me, things have turned out different so the process whatever you want to call it is actually being tested quite a bit. We'll see what happens next, I think our initial doubts have shown it's a mistake to jump to hasty conclusions so I'll leave it at that. <a href="/wiki/User:Nil_Einne" title="User:Nil Einne">Nil Einne</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Nil_Einne" title="User talk:Nil Einne">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Nil_Einne-20241107143400-Pppery-20241031034100" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">14:34, 7 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-363" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>I think you raise an interesting point. For me, it's more like bad cases make bad law, because I think the new developments would have quickly come under scrutiny under the old processes as well. I don't really believe that the recall petition brought forth anything that would not have come forth just as quickly without it. --<a href="/wiki/User:Tryptofish" title="User:Tryptofish">Tryptofish</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Tryptofish" title="User talk:Tryptofish">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Tryptofish-20241107205900-Nil_Einne-20241107143400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:59, 7 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-364" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd> <dd>You volunteering as Captain Smith, <a href="/wiki/User:GiantSnowman" title="User:GiantSnowman">GiantSnowman</a> :D (Orig. sig: User:Serial Number 54129, 19:25, 31 October 2024 (UTC)) <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Serial_Number_54129" title="User talk:Serial Number 54129">SerialNumber</a><a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Serial_Number_54129" title="Special:Contributions/Serial Number 54129">54129</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-GiantSnowman-20241031192500-GiantSnowman-20241030215300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">14:11, 1 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-365" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div style="padding-left: 1.6em; font-style: italic; border-top: 1px solid #a2a9b1; margin: 0.5em 0; padding-top: 0.5em">The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.</div> </div><div style="clear:both;" class=""></div> </section><div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section section-heading" onclick="mfTempOpenSection(21)"><h2 id="Notification_of_a_request_for_transwiki_importer_rights" data-mw-thread-id="h-Notification_of_a_request_for_transwiki_importer_rights-20241121151200">Notification of a request for transwiki importer rights</h2> <a role="button" href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard&action=edit&section=22" title="Edit section: Notification of a request for transwiki importer rights" class="cdx-button cdx-button--size-large cdx-button--fake-button cdx-button--fake-button--enabled cdx-button--icon-only cdx-button--weight-quiet "> edit </a> <span id='ooui-php-433' class='ext-discussiontools-init-section-overflowMenuButton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-buttonWidget' data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonMenuSelectWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"ellipsis","data":{"itemConfigs":[{"id":"edit","data":{"id":"edit"},"icon":"edit","label":"Edit"}],"resourceLoaderModules":[]},"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-section-overflowMenuButton"]}'><a role='button' tabindex='0' rel='nofollow' class='oo-ui-buttonElement-button'></a><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata">Latest comment: <a href="#c-EggRoll97-20241121151200-Notification_of_a_request_for_transwiki_importer_rights">2 days ago</a>1 comment1 person in discussion</div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div><section class="mf-section-21 collapsible-block" id="mf-section-21"> A request for the assignment of transwiki importer rights is occurring at <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Requests_for_page_importation#Request_for_transwiki-importer_-_EggRoll97" title="Wikipedia talk:Requests for page importation">Wikipedia talk:Requests for page importation#Request for transwiki-importer - EggRoll97</a>. To participate, please see the linked section. <a href="/wiki/User:EggRoll97" title="User:EggRoll97">EggRoll97</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:EggRoll97" title="User talk:EggRoll97">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-EggRoll97-20241121151200-Notification_of_a_request_for_transwiki_importer_rights" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:12, 21 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-366" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> </section><div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section section-heading" onclick="mfTempOpenSection(22)"><h2 id="User:ReflexSpray_violating_General_sanctions" data-mw-thread-id="h-User:ReflexSpray_violating_General_sanctions-20241122030800"><a href="/w/index.php?title=User:ReflexSpray&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:ReflexSpray (page does not exist)">User:ReflexSpray</a> violating <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:GS" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:GS">General sanctions</a></h2> <a role="button" href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard&action=edit&section=23" title="Edit section: User:ReflexSpray violating General sanctions" class="cdx-button cdx-button--size-large cdx-button--fake-button cdx-button--fake-button--enabled cdx-button--icon-only cdx-button--weight-quiet "> edit </a> <span id='ooui-php-434' class='ext-discussiontools-init-section-overflowMenuButton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-buttonWidget' data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonMenuSelectWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"ellipsis","data":{"itemConfigs":[{"id":"edit","data":{"id":"edit"},"icon":"edit","label":"Edit"}],"resourceLoaderModules":[]},"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-section-overflowMenuButton"]}'><a role='button' tabindex='0' rel='nofollow' class='oo-ui-buttonElement-button'></a><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata">Latest comment: <a href="#c-ThatIPEditor-20241122030800-User:ReflexSpray_violating_General_sanctions">2 days ago</a>1 comment1 person in discussion</div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div><section class="mf-section-22 collapsible-block" id="mf-section-22"> <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:ReflexSpray&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:ReflexSpray (page does not exist)">ReflexSpray</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:ReflexSpray" title="User talk:ReflexSpray">talk</a> · <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/ReflexSpray" title="Special:Contributions/ReflexSpray">contribs</a> · <a href="/wiki/Special:DeletedContributions/ReflexSpray" title="Special:DeletedContributions/ReflexSpray">deleted contribs</a> · <a href="/wiki/Special:Log/ReflexSpray" title="Special:Log/ReflexSpray">logs</a> · <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3AAbuseLog&wpSearchUser=ReflexSpray">filter log</a> · <a href="/wiki/Special:Block/ReflexSpray" title="Special:Block/ReflexSpray">block user</a> · <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3ALog%2Fblock&page=User%3AReflexSpray">block log</a>) <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:ReflexSpray&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:ReflexSpray (page does not exist)">User:ReflexSpray</a> has violated general sanctions numerous times (in fact, their entire contrib history is entirely GS-violating content) imposed on <a href="/wiki/Russo-Ukrainian_War" title="Russo-Ukrainian War">Russo-Ukrainian War</a> and related topics, despite formal notification <a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:ReflexSpray&oldid=1256393897">[3]</a>. <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:RUSUKR" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:RUSUKR">WP:RUSUKR</a> dictates that "non-extended-confirmed editors may not make edits to internal project discussions related to the topic area". Notwithstanding <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:RUSUKR" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:RUSUKR">WP:RUSUKR</a>, ReflexSpray has been commenting on edit requests and an RfC. <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:ThatIPEditor&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:ThatIPEditor (page does not exist)">ThatIPEditor</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:ThatIPEditor" title="User talk:ThatIPEditor">Talk</a> · <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/ThatIPEditor" title="Special:Contributions/ThatIPEditor">Contribs</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-ThatIPEditor-20241122030800-User:ReflexSpray_violating_General_sanctions" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">03:08, 22 November 2024 (UTC)</a>, made non-material changes on 04:41, 22 November 2024 (UTC)<span id="ooui-php-367" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> </section><div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section section-heading" onclick="mfTempOpenSection(23)"><h2 id="Wikizilla" data-mw-thread-id="h-Wikizilla-20241122093600">Wikizilla</h2> <a role="button" href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard&action=edit&section=24" title="Edit section: Wikizilla" class="cdx-button cdx-button--size-large cdx-button--fake-button cdx-button--fake-button--enabled cdx-button--icon-only cdx-button--weight-quiet "> edit </a> <span id='ooui-php-435' class='ext-discussiontools-init-section-overflowMenuButton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-buttonWidget' data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonMenuSelectWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"ellipsis","data":{"itemConfigs":[{"id":"edit","data":{"id":"edit"},"icon":"edit","label":"Edit"}],"resourceLoaderModules":[]},"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-section-overflowMenuButton"]}'><a role='button' tabindex='0' rel='nofollow' class='oo-ui-buttonElement-button'></a><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata">Latest comment: <a href="#c-Animal_lover_666-20241124005900-Diannaa-20241123151600">2 hours ago</a>16 comments6 people in discussion</div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div><section class="mf-section-23 collapsible-block" id="mf-section-23"> Wikizilla is basically wikipedia, but based on <a href="/wiki/Godzilla_(franchise)" title="Godzilla (franchise)">Godzilla</a>, <a href="/wiki/Mothra" title="Mothra">Mothra</a> and <a href="/wiki/King_Kong_(franchise)" title="King Kong (franchise)">King Kong</a> related stuff. What I've noticed is that people claim that the <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Kong_(Monsterverse)&diff=prev&oldid=1255561477">text</a> <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Shin_Godzilla_(character)&diff=prev&oldid=1250793663">from</a> Wikizilla is copyrighted, though per <a href="/wiki/User:CactusWriter" title="User:CactusWriter"><bdi>CactusWriter</bdi></a>'s <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Tiamat_(Godzilla)&oldid=1255479176">claim on this revision on Tiamat</a> shows that Wikizilla licenses text under Creative Commons Attribution-Sharealike 3.0 Unported License (CC-BY-SA). <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:GojiraFan1954&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:GojiraFan1954 (page does not exist)">GojiraFan1954</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:GojiraFan1954" title="User talk:GojiraFan1954">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-GojiraFan1954-20241122093600-Wikizilla" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">09:36, 22 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-368" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd><a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://wikizilla.org/wiki/Wikizilla:Copyrights">Wikizilla:Copyrights</a> is what CactusWriter probably used as the source. <a href="/wiki/User:1AmNobody24" title="User:1AmNobody24">Nobody</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:1AmNobody24" title="User talk:1AmNobody24">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-1AmNobody24-20241122100800-GojiraFan1954-20241122093600" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">10:08, 22 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-369" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd> <dd>Well, <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://wikizilla.org/wiki/Wikizilla:Copyrights">they claim</a> that Wikizilla's text and many of its images are co-licensed under the Creative Commons Attribution-Sharealike 3.0 Unported License (CC-BY-SA), although there seem to be a couple of caveats which I don't know whether have been adhered to as I can't see the deleted material (and of course, per Bastun's edit-summary, the main condition—that it was attributed (i.e. sourced)—was not met). I think more importantly, why are we using it as any kind or source—perhaps excepting on itself—at all? It's a wiki, a fansite, with no editorial oversight and like WP, <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://wikizilla.org/wiki/Wikizilla:General_disclaimer">it admits</a> to not being a reliable source. <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Serial_Number_54129" title="User talk:Serial Number 54129">SerialNumber</a><a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Serial_Number_54129" title="Special:Contributions/Serial Number 54129">54129</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Serial_Number_54129-20241122101000-GojiraFan1954-20241122093600" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">10:10, 22 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-370" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>I was wondering how I could gain said consensus to get it off the copyvios list. If Fandom doesn't give us copyright strikes, then what about Wikizilla? <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:GojiraFan1954&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:GojiraFan1954 (page does not exist)">GojiraFan1954</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:GojiraFan1954" title="User talk:GojiraFan1954">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-GojiraFan1954-20241122111700-Serial_Number_54129-20241122101000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">11:17, 22 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-371" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>It won't go off the copyvios list because it still needs to be checked if the right <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Plagiarism#Copying_material_from_free_sources" title="Wikipedia:Plagiarism">attribution</a> was added. <a href="/wiki/User:1AmNobody24" title="User:1AmNobody24">Nobody</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:1AmNobody24" title="User talk:1AmNobody24">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-1AmNobody24-20241122113400-GojiraFan1954-20241122111700" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">11:34, 22 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-372" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd> <dd>I'm not sure what the copyvios list is. I'm also not sure what copyright strikes are. But if you mean, what are the circumstances under which we can re-use Wikizilla material then, as IaN24 says, it will only be after their criteria for re-use, and our policy of attribution, is adhered to. But as to whether we would ever want to use their material, regardless of attribution: I'm wholly unconvinced of the necessity to do so. If we want to write about Godzilla et al., there must be plenty of non-fansites AKA actual reliable, independent third-part sources available. <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Serial_Number_54129" title="User talk:Serial Number 54129">SerialNumber</a><a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Serial_Number_54129" title="Special:Contributions/Serial Number 54129">54129</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Serial_Number_54129-20241122121800-GojiraFan1954-20241122111700" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">12:18, 22 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-373" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>The copyvios list is technically any link that's not on the <a href="https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:CopyPatrolBot/UrlIgnoreList" class="extiw" title="meta:User:CopyPatrolBot/UrlIgnoreList">Url Ignore List</a>. Copyright strike sounds like the <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://support.google.com/youtube/answer/2814000">youtube thing</a>. <a href="/wiki/User:1AmNobody24" title="User:1AmNobody24">Nobody</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:1AmNobody24" title="User talk:1AmNobody24">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-1AmNobody24-20241122123200-Serial_Number_54129-20241122121800" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">12:32, 22 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-374" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd></dl></dd> <dd><s>I can't find any evidencde that Wikizilla is licensed. I checked when CactusWriter declined the G12 and checked again now: the website has no copyright notice, no terms of use page, no licensing info anywhere. That means it is copyright and we can't copy it there.</s> <a href="/wiki/User:Diannaa" title="User:Diannaa">Diannaa</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Diannaa" title="User talk:Diannaa">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Diannaa-20241122131100-GojiraFan1954-20241122111700" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">13:11, 22 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-375" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:Diannaa" title="User:Diannaa">Diannaa</a>: Sorry if I'm missing something; but their page ("Wikizila:Copyrights") was linked a couple of times above? <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Serial_Number_54129" title="User talk:Serial Number 54129">SerialNumber</a><a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Serial_Number_54129" title="Special:Contributions/Serial Number 54129">54129</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Serial_Number_54129-20241122133900-Diannaa-20241122131100" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">13:39, 22 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-376" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>Yes, I see it now. Sorry for the mistake. I have struck my comment.<a href="/wiki/User:Diannaa" title="User:Diannaa">Diannaa</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Diannaa" title="User talk:Diannaa">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Diannaa-20241122134300-Serial_Number_54129-20241122133900" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">13:43, 22 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-377" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>No worries. I was worried I was completely losing it, which is always on the cards :) <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Serial_Number_54129" title="User talk:Serial Number 54129">SerialNumber</a><a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Serial_Number_54129" title="Special:Contributions/Serial Number 54129">54129</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Serial_Number_54129-20241122135000-Diannaa-20241122134300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">13:50, 22 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-378" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="outdent-template" style="position:relative;left:1px;"></div>I did decline the G12 CSD on <a href="/wiki/Tiamat_(Godzilla)" title="Tiamat (Godzilla)">Tiamat (Godzilla)</a> by investigating the source and finding Wikizilla is licensed CC-BY-SA 3.0. However, that was only in response to the CSD tag, not on the value of the text. I really should have tagged the article for the reliability and sourcing issues. And informed the article editor, as well. I agree that no Wiki should be used as a reliable source -- but rather only as a basis for finding possible good sources referenced by the article -- just like we do Wikipedia. Perhaps we can include an entry about Wikizilla at <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:RSP" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:RSP">WP:RSP</a>? — <a href="/wiki/User:CactusWriter" title="User:CactusWriter">CactusWriter </a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:CactusWriter" title="User talk:CactusWriter">(talk)</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-CactusWriter-20241122163300-Wikizilla" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:33, 22 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-379" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:CactusWriter" title="User:CactusWriter">CactusWriter</a>: <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Reliable_sources/Noticeboard#Wikizilla" title="Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Noticeboard">Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Noticeboard#Wikizilla</a>... ready and waiting :) <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Serial_Number_54129" title="User talk:Serial Number 54129">SerialNumber</a><a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Serial_Number_54129" title="Special:Contributions/Serial Number 54129">54129</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Serial_Number_54129-20241122164300-CactusWriter-20241122163300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:43, 22 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-380" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>Excellent. Thanks, SN. — <a href="/wiki/User:CactusWriter" title="User:CactusWriter">CactusWriter </a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:CactusWriter" title="User talk:CactusWriter">(talk)</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-CactusWriter-20241122165200-Serial_Number_54129-20241122164300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:52, 22 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-381" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd></dl></dd> <dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:CactusWriter" title="User:CactusWriter">CactusWriter</a>, When copying from licensed material, attribution is required. So if you are going to decline a G12 because the copied material is compatibly licensed, it would be a good idea to add the required attribution template. I attempted to do that on <a href="/wiki/Tiamat_(Godzilla)" title="Tiamat (Godzilla)">Tiamat (Godzilla)</a> but someone subsequently removed it. <a href="/wiki/User:Diannaa" title="User:Diannaa">Diannaa</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Diannaa" title="User talk:Diannaa">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Diannaa-20241123151600-CactusWriter-20241122163300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:16, 23 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-382" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>G12 is for material we are not legally allowed, with our licensing, to host, or which we have no means to verify that we are. Compatible unattributed material should get attributed, not G12-deleted. Of course, this doesn't exclude any other deletion reason, speedy or otherwise. <a href="/wiki/User:Animal_lover_666" title="User:Animal lover 666">Animal lover</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Animal_lover_666" title="User talk:Animal lover 666">|666|</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Animal_lover_666-20241124005900-Diannaa-20241123151600" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:59, 24 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-383" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd></dl></dd></dl> </section><div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section section-heading" onclick="mfTempOpenSection(24)"><h2 id="MissionWar123" data-mw-thread-id="h-MissionWar123-20241122122400">MissionWar123</h2> <a role="button" href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard&action=edit&section=25" title="Edit section: MissionWar123" class="cdx-button cdx-button--size-large cdx-button--fake-button cdx-button--fake-button--enabled cdx-button--icon-only cdx-button--weight-quiet "> edit </a> <span id='ooui-php-436' class='ext-discussiontools-init-section-overflowMenuButton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-buttonWidget' data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonMenuSelectWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"ellipsis","data":{"itemConfigs":[{"id":"edit","data":{"id":"edit"},"icon":"edit","label":"Edit"}],"resourceLoaderModules":[]},"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-section-overflowMenuButton"]}'><a role='button' tabindex='0' rel='nofollow' class='oo-ui-buttonElement-button'></a><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata">Latest comment: <a href="#c-Black_Kite-20241122125800-Viennese_Waltz-20241122122400">1 day ago</a>2 comments2 people in discussion</div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div><section class="mf-section-24 collapsible-block" id="mf-section-24"> <a href="/wiki/User:MissionWar123" title="User:MissionWar123">User:MissionWar123</a>, a recently opened account, may be the same editor who has been posting barely coherent diatribes about plot holes in Indian TV soap operas from Indian IP addresses for some time. See <a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia%3AReference_desk%2FEntertainment&diff=1256122479&oldid=1256119189">[4]</a> and <a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia%3AReference_desk%2FEntertainment&diff=1234579782&oldid=1234562981">[5]</a> for a couple of recent examples. These posts have been reverted by concerned editors. Now the same kind of posts have begun appearing on the entertainment ref desk under the given account name. They have also been posting abusive messages on my and other editors' talk pages, see <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk%3AViennese_Waltz&diff=1258930812&oldid=1258930784">here</a> for example. Can an administrator assist, please? Many thanks. --<a href="/wiki/User:Viennese_Waltz" title="User:Viennese Waltz">Viennese Waltz</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Viennese_Waltz-20241122122400-MissionWar123" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">12:24, 22 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-384" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <ul><li>Yeah, that's the very definition of NOTHERE, especially the talkpage abuse. Indeffed. <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Black_Kite" title="User talk:Black Kite">Black Kite (talk)</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Black_Kite-20241122125800-Viennese_Waltz-20241122122400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">12:58, 22 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-385" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></li></ul> </section><div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section section-heading" onclick="mfTempOpenSection(25)"><h2 id="History_merge" data-mw-thread-id="h-History_merge-20241122143400">History merge</h2> <a role="button" href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard&action=edit&section=26" title="Edit section: History merge" class="cdx-button cdx-button--size-large cdx-button--fake-button cdx-button--fake-button--enabled cdx-button--icon-only cdx-button--weight-quiet "> edit </a> <span id='ooui-php-437' class='ext-discussiontools-init-section-overflowMenuButton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-buttonWidget' data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonMenuSelectWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"ellipsis","data":{"itemConfigs":[{"id":"edit","data":{"id":"edit"},"icon":"edit","label":"Edit"}],"resourceLoaderModules":[]},"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-section-overflowMenuButton"]}'><a role='button' tabindex='0' rel='nofollow' class='oo-ui-buttonElement-button'></a><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata">Latest comment: <a href="#c-Crazycomputers-20241122153900-Crazycomputers-20241122153500">1 day ago</a>3 comments2 people in discussion</div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div><section class="mf-section-25 collapsible-block" id="mf-section-25"> Last night an LTA moved my user and talk page around a bunch and my talk page history got deleted in the mess. Could someone find out where it ended up and merge it back into the proper page? Thanks. <a href="/wiki/User:CFA" title="User:CFA">C</a> F <a href="/wiki/User_talk:CFA" title="User talk:CFA">A</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-CFA-20241122143400-History_merge" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">14:34, 22 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-386" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:CFA" title="User:CFA">CFA</a>: I am working on this now. --Chris | <a href="/wiki/User:Crazycomputers" title="User:Crazycomputers">Crazycomputers</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Crazycomputers" title="User talk:Crazycomputers">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Crazycomputers-20241122153500-CFA-20241122143400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:35, 22 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-387" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:CFA" title="User:CFA">CFA</a>: <noscript><img alt="" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/f/fb/Yes_check.svg/18px-Yes_check.svg.png" decoding="async" width="18" height="18" class="mw-file-element" data-file-width="600" data-file-height="600"></noscript><span class="lazy-image-placeholder" style="width: 18px;height: 18px;" data-src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/f/fb/Yes_check.svg/18px-Yes_check.svg.png" data-alt="" data-width="18" data-height="18" data-srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/f/fb/Yes_check.svg/27px-Yes_check.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/f/fb/Yes_check.svg/36px-Yes_check.svg.png 2x" data-class="mw-file-element">  Done. Let me know if anything looks out of place. --Chris | <a href="/wiki/User:Crazycomputers" title="User:Crazycomputers">Crazycomputers</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Crazycomputers" title="User talk:Crazycomputers">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Crazycomputers-20241122153900-Crazycomputers-20241122153500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:39, 22 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-388" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd></dl></dd></dl> </section><div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section section-heading" onclick="mfTempOpenSection(26)"><h2 id="Edit_request_for_protected_page" data-mw-thread-id="h-Edit_request_for_protected_page-20241122143700">Edit request for protected page</h2> <a role="button" href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard&action=edit&section=27" title="Edit section: Edit request for protected page" class="cdx-button cdx-button--size-large cdx-button--fake-button cdx-button--fake-button--enabled cdx-button--icon-only cdx-button--weight-quiet "> edit </a> <span id='ooui-php-438' class='ext-discussiontools-init-section-overflowMenuButton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-buttonWidget' data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonMenuSelectWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"ellipsis","data":{"itemConfigs":[{"id":"edit","data":{"id":"edit"},"icon":"edit","label":"Edit"}],"resourceLoaderModules":[]},"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-section-overflowMenuButton"]}'><a role='button' tabindex='0' rel='nofollow' class='oo-ui-buttonElement-button'></a><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata">Latest comment: <a href="#c-JJPMaster-20241122150700-Pigsonthewing-20241122143700">1 day ago</a>3 comments3 people in discussion</div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div><section class="mf-section-26 collapsible-block" id="mf-section-26"> <a href="/wiki/User:Example" title="User:Example">User:Example</a> and its talk page are protected. On the former, please change: <div class="mw-highlight mw-highlight-lang-moin mw-content-ltr" dir="ltr"><pre>== See also == * [[Wikipedia:User pages]] </pre></div> to: <div class="mw-highlight mw-highlight-lang-moin mw-content-ltr" dir="ltr"><pre>== See also == * [[User:Red link example]] * [[Wikipedia:User pages]] </pre></div> -- <a href="/wiki/User:Pigsonthewing" title="User:Pigsonthewing">Andy Mabbett</a> (Pigsonthewing); <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Pigsonthewing" title="User talk:Pigsonthewing">Talk to Andy</a>; <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing" title="Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing">Andy's edits</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Pigsonthewing-20241122143700-Edit_request_for_protected_page" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">14:37, 22 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-389" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd><noscript><img alt="" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/f/fb/Yes_check.svg/18px-Yes_check.svg.png" decoding="async" width="18" height="18" class="mw-file-element" data-file-width="600" data-file-height="600"></noscript><span class="lazy-image-placeholder" style="width: 18px;height: 18px;" data-src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/f/fb/Yes_check.svg/18px-Yes_check.svg.png" data-alt="" data-width="18" data-height="18" data-srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/f/fb/Yes_check.svg/27px-Yes_check.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/f/fb/Yes_check.svg/36px-Yes_check.svg.png 2x" data-class="mw-file-element">  Done <a href="/wiki/User:RickinBaltimore" title="User:RickinBaltimore">RickinBaltimore</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:RickinBaltimore" title="User talk:RickinBaltimore">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-RickinBaltimore-20241122143800-Pigsonthewing-20241122143700" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">14:38, 22 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-390" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd> <dd>Note for <a href="/wiki/User:Pigsonthewing" title="User:Pigsonthewing">you</a> in the future: <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Requests_for_page_protection#Current_requests_for_edits_to_a_protected_page" title="Wikipedia:Requests for page protection">Wikipedia:Requests for page protection#Current requests for edits to a protected page</a> also works for this sort of request. <a href="/wiki/User:JJPMaster" title="User:JJPMaster">JJP</a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:JJPMaster" title="User talk:JJPMaster">Mas</a><a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/JJPMaster" title="Special:Contributions/JJPMaster">ter</a> (<a href="/wiki/She_(pronoun)" title="She (pronoun)">she</a>/<a href="/wiki/Singular_they" title="Singular they">they</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-JJPMaster-20241122150700-Pigsonthewing-20241122143700" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:07, 22 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-391" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd></dl> </section><div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section section-heading" onclick="mfTempOpenSection(27)"><h2 id="Self-reporting_rollback" data-mw-thread-id="h-Self-reporting_rollback-20241122145400">Self-reporting rollback</h2> <a role="button" href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard&action=edit&section=28" title="Edit section: Self-reporting rollback" class="cdx-button cdx-button--size-large cdx-button--fake-button cdx-button--fake-button--enabled cdx-button--icon-only cdx-button--weight-quiet "> edit </a> <span id='ooui-php-439' class='ext-discussiontools-init-section-overflowMenuButton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-buttonWidget' data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonMenuSelectWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"ellipsis","data":{"itemConfigs":[{"id":"edit","data":{"id":"edit"},"icon":"edit","label":"Edit"}],"resourceLoaderModules":[]},"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-section-overflowMenuButton"]}'><a role='button' tabindex='0' rel='nofollow' class='oo-ui-buttonElement-button'></a><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata">Latest comment: <a href="#c-SarekOfVulcan-20241122151600-Serial_Number_54129-20241122145400">1 day ago</a>2 comments2 people in discussion</div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div><section class="mf-section-27 collapsible-block" id="mf-section-27"> hi i rolled back <a href="/wiki/User:RJJ4y7" title="User:RJJ4y7">user:RJJ4y7</a>'s most <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/RJJ4y7" title="Special:Contributions/RJJ4y7">recent contribs</a>, as talk page spam, apologies if this was excessive. (Albeit I've just realised I missed half of them—no idea why how, but will leave em.) <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Serial_Number_54129" title="User talk:Serial Number 54129">SerialNumber</a><a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Serial_Number_54129" title="Special:Contributions/Serial Number 54129">54129</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Serial_Number_54129-20241122145400-Self-reporting_rollback" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">14:54, 22 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-392" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>I think both the reversions and your decision to stop for now were good. --<a href="/wiki/User_talk:SarekOfVulcan" title="User talk:SarekOfVulcan">SarekOfVulcan (talk)</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-SarekOfVulcan-20241122151600-Serial_Number_54129-20241122145400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:16, 22 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-393" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd></dl> </section><div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section section-heading" onclick="mfTempOpenSection(28)"><h2 id="Block/unblock_review_scifaxEditor" data-mw-thread-id="h-Block/unblock_review_scifaxEditor-20241123154900">Block/unblock review scifaxEditor</h2> <a role="button" href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard&action=edit&section=29" title="Edit section: Block/unblock review scifaxEditor" class="cdx-button cdx-button--size-large cdx-button--fake-button cdx-button--fake-button--enabled cdx-button--icon-only cdx-button--weight-quiet "> edit </a> <span id='ooui-php-440' class='ext-discussiontools-init-section-overflowMenuButton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-buttonWidget' data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonMenuSelectWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"ellipsis","data":{"itemConfigs":[{"id":"edit","data":{"id":"edit"},"icon":"edit","label":"Edit"}],"resourceLoaderModules":[]},"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-section-overflowMenuButton"]}'><a role='button' tabindex='0' rel='nofollow' class='oo-ui-buttonElement-button'></a><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata">Latest comment: <a href="#c-Orangemike-20241124010600-Rsjaffe-20241123224500">2 hours ago</a>12 comments9 people in discussion</div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div><section class="mf-section-28 collapsible-block" id="mf-section-28"> My actions have stirred up controversy, so wanted them reviewed here. An editor, <a href="/wiki/User:ScifaxEditor" title="User:ScifaxEditor">ScifaxEditor</a>, who had predeclared their COI, wrote a draft on Scifax Publishing. I soft blocked for promotional name. I was later persuaded that it did not designate a role account, but rather a person at Scifax, and unblocked. <a href="/wiki/Special:PermanentLink/1259131871#User-reported" title="Special:PermanentLink/1259131871">Special:Permalink/1259131871#User-reported</a> Shows the ensuing conversation. (Later addition) see <a href="/wiki/Special:PermanentLink/1258413577#Changing_username" title="Special:PermanentLink/1258413577">Special:Permalink/1258413577#Changing username</a> which had the opposite conclusion for another ambiguous possible role name. — <a href="/wiki/User:Rsjaffe" title="User:Rsjaffe">rsjaffe</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Rsjaffe" title="User talk:Rsjaffe">🗣️</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Rsjaffe-20241123154900-Block/unblock_review_scifaxEditor" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:49, 23 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-394" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>I haven't handled any UAA blocks yet, but ScifaxEditor, coupled with the disclosure of the COI, implies to me that this is an account that is being used by a single person at Scifax to write about the company and thus does not run afoul of the promotional username policy.<div class="paragraphbreak" style="margin-top:0.5em"></div>I do not believe that the draft should have been deleted. This editor did what we instruct COI editors to do: declared their COI, wrote in draftspace, and submitted for AfC review. This editor was not being disruptive, nor were they trying to push the draft through to mainspace. Looking at the draft that was deleted, I highly doubt that this company is notable, but there's no harm in letting it get rejected a few times and then having it get deleted after 6 months when the COI editor gets the message. <a href="/wiki/User:Voorts" title="User:Voorts">voorts</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Voorts" title="User talk:Voorts">talk</a>/<a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Voorts" title="Special:Contributions/Voorts">contributions</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Voorts-20241123160100-Rsjaffe-20241123154900" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:01, 23 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-395" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd> <dd>This conversation regarding an earlier block of mine, where the name is ambiguous (rep sr) I took to mean senior rep), colored my thinking. <a href="/wiki/Special:PermanentLink/1258413577#Changing_username" title="Special:PermanentLink/1258413577">Special:Permalink/1258413577#Changing username</a> — <a href="/wiki/User:Rsjaffe" title="User:Rsjaffe">rsjaffe</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Rsjaffe" title="User talk:Rsjaffe">🗣️</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Rsjaffe-20241123160700-Rsjaffe-20241123154900" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:07, 23 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-396" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd> <dd>I would be a bit concerned that "ScifaxEditor" is a position and that the account is a role account, one that can be handed off to a successor. But as of now I'd probably just let it be. <a href="/wiki/User:331dot" title="User:331dot">331dot</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:331dot" title="User talk:331dot">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-331dot-20241123161300-Rsjaffe-20241123154900" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:13, 23 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-397" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd> <dd>While I (eventually) understood how this can not be a role account (I thought for sure it was before reading the arguments), 'editor' IS a role at Scifax <a rel="nofollow" class="external autonumber" href="https://scifax.com/#:~:text=Our%20team%20of-,experienced%20editors,-provides%20comprehensive%20editing">[6]</a> (under "Scientific Publishing Services").</dd> <dd>I'd say it's at least ambiguous, in this specific case, given that fact. – <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/2804:F14:80CD:F701:2028:9813:C9AF:F143" title="Special:Contributions/2804:F14:80CD:F701:2028:9813:C9AF:F143">2804:F1...AF:F143</a> (<a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/2804:F14::/32" title="Special:Contributions/2804:F14::/32">::/32</a>) (<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:2804:F14:80CD:F701:2028:9813:C9AF:F143&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User talk:2804:F14:80CD:F701:2028:9813:C9AF:F143 (page does not exist)">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-2804:F14:80CD:F701:2028:9813:C9AF:F143-20241123161800-Rsjaffe-20241123154900" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:18, 23 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-398" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd> <dd>Sure looks like a role account to me. -- <a href="/wiki/User:Asilvering" title="User:Asilvering">asilvering</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Asilvering" title="User talk:Asilvering">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Asilvering-20241123181300-Rsjaffe-20241123154900" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:13, 23 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-399" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd></dl> UAA is there to deal with blatant violations of the username policy and literally nothing else. I think this falls under what has been called the "Mark at Alcoa" exemption to the policy, in that it appears to identify an individual rather than a group. If there is concern that it may be a role account, that can be discussed but the username on its own is not a violation. <a href="/wiki/User:Just_Step_Sideways" title="User:Just Step Sideways">Just Step Sideways</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Just_Step_Sideways" title="User talk:Just Step Sideways">from this world ..... today</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Just_Step_Sideways-20241123191500-Block/unblock_review_scifaxEditor" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:15, 23 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:Deb" title="User:Deb">Deb</a>: blocked <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:OxervEditor">OxervEditor</a> (a user in this same shoe) for a username policy violation earlier today, even though <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Rsjaffe#ScifaxEditor_block" title="User talk:Rsjaffe">I pointed out earlier</a> that it isn't a literal username policy violation. Just wanted to point out as I think Deb is not aware of this situation too. Although, it appears OxervEditor is <a href="/wiki/User_talk:OxervEditor#Block_notice" title="User talk:OxervEditor">already asking for a rename</a> as a result of the block. <a href="/wiki/User:Vanderwaalforces" title="User:Vanderwaalforces">Vanderwaalforces</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Vanderwaalforces" title="User talk:Vanderwaalforces">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Vanderwaalforces-20241123222800-Just_Step_Sideways-20241123191500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:28, 23 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-401" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>There are reasonable people who disagree on this particular name pattern, and context matters, as this pattern could represent a role account for some. Also, if you mention the actions of another editor, you must notify them. I’ll take care of the notification. — <a href="/wiki/User:Rsjaffe" title="User:Rsjaffe">rsjaffe</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Rsjaffe" title="User talk:Rsjaffe">🗣️</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Rsjaffe-20241123224500-Vanderwaalforces-20241123222800" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:45, 23 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-402" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:Rsjaffe" title="User:Rsjaffe">Rsjaffe</a> Whoops, thank you for handling that! <a href="/wiki/User:Vanderwaalforces" title="User:Vanderwaalforces">Vanderwaalforces</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Vanderwaalforces" title="User talk:Vanderwaalforces">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Vanderwaalforces-20241123234600-Rsjaffe-20241123224500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:46, 23 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-403" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd> <dd>I agree with this. To me, this username strongly implies a role account, and I would not be surprised if I've blocked others with this same username pattern. If the company has any kind of "editor" position then I'd lean heavily towards it being a violation; if the company doesn't, it still screams "role account" to me. I think this pattern is uniquely confusing because the term "editor" in this context can be overloaded. I think there is enough room for interpretation here that if another admin reviewed a UAA report as "not a violation" I would not object; likewise, I'd not expect a block (especially a soft one) to generate this level of controversy. --Chris | <a href="/wiki/User:Crazycomputers" title="User:Crazycomputers">Crazycomputers</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Crazycomputers" title="User talk:Crazycomputers">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Crazycomputers-20241123235000-Rsjaffe-20241123224500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:50, 23 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-404" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd> <dd>Such a name is very much a role account, one that could be passed on to another editor or shared by everybody who has the job of editor there. "Fred at Scifax" or "Scifax' First Wiki-editor" might pass muster, but not something so obviously a role rather than an identity. --<a href="/wiki/User:Orangemike" title="User:Orangemike">Orange Mike</a> | <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Orangemike" title="User talk:Orangemike">Talk</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Orangemike-20241124010600-Rsjaffe-20241123224500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:06, 24 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-405" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> </section><div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section section-heading" onclick="mfTempOpenSection(29)"><h2 id="Disclaimer" data-mw-thread-id="h-Disclaimer-20241123234500">Disclaimer</h2> <a role="button" href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard&action=edit&section=30" title="Edit section: Disclaimer" class="cdx-button cdx-button--size-large cdx-button--fake-button cdx-button--fake-button--enabled cdx-button--icon-only cdx-button--weight-quiet "> edit </a> <span id='ooui-php-441' class='ext-discussiontools-init-section-overflowMenuButton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-buttonWidget' data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonMenuSelectWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"ellipsis","data":{"itemConfigs":[{"id":"edit","data":{"id":"edit"},"icon":"edit","label":"Edit"}],"resourceLoaderModules":[]},"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-section-overflowMenuButton"]}'><a role='button' tabindex='0' rel='nofollow' class='oo-ui-buttonElement-button'></a><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata">Latest comment: <a href="#c-Ahri_Boy-20241124022100-Shovel_Shenanigans-20241124013300">52 minutes ago</a>7 comments5 people in discussion</div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div><section class="mf-section-29 collapsible-block" id="mf-section-29"> Hi, I sent this message to a few Wikipedia admins to make sure it gets seen, and now I am putting it here. My brother, who lives with me, has mentioned that he intends on vandalizing Wikipedia articles. He hasn't specified (to the best of my knowledge) what articles he intends to vandalize. Knowing him, it's likely to be anything relating to Donald Trump, and other things relating to the republican party. I wanted to bring this to your attention in part because he and I live together and share an IP address (I don't want to be stuck with the blame), and because I value the integrity of Wikipedia. Thank you. <a href="/wiki/User:Shovel_Shenanigans" title="User:Shovel Shenanigans">Shovel Shenanigans</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Shovel_Shenanigans" title="User talk:Shovel Shenanigans">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Shovel_Shenanigans-20241123234500-Disclaimer" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:45, 23 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-406" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>If he does, you will be blocked. See WP:BROTHER. You could still prevent this. <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Serial_Number_54129" title="User talk:Serial Number 54129">SerialNumber</a><a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Serial_Number_54129" title="Special:Contributions/Serial Number 54129">54129</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Serial_Number_54129-20241124003300-Shovel_Shenanigans-20241123234500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:33, 24 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-407" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>Believe me, I am trying, but you don't quite know him like I do. He goes out of his way to do the exact opposite of almost anything I ask of him. If he does get me banned, I'll instantly request it to be undone, but it is obviously not the preferred outcome. I'm aware that it is a widely used excuse, which is unfortunate for those of us who are actually encountering this issue. <a href="/wiki/User:Shovel_Shenanigans" title="User:Shovel Shenanigans">Shovel Shenanigans</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Shovel_Shenanigans" title="User talk:Shovel Shenanigans">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Shovel_Shenanigans-20241124004200-Serial_Number_54129-20241124003300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:42, 24 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-408" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>One important thing to do is to be absolutely sure he has no access to your account. Never leave any computer he has access to logged in, nor allow it to have your password saved. Do not use any password he would be likely to guess. You may be able to convince someone that your IP address is shared and that you are not responsible for all its actions, but certainly not your account. <a href="/wiki/User:Animal_lover_666" title="User:Animal lover 666">Animal lover</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Animal_lover_666" title="User talk:Animal lover 666">|666|</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Animal_lover_666-20241124010900-Shovel_Shenanigans-20241124004200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:09, 24 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-409" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>I am sure my account is secure from him (I made sure, since I know that's the kind of thing he's likely to do), and I plan on changing my password once a month for extra security. I'll still do what I can to keep him away. <a href="/wiki/User:Shovel_Shenanigans" title="User:Shovel Shenanigans">Shovel Shenanigans</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Shovel_Shenanigans" title="User talk:Shovel Shenanigans">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Shovel_Shenanigans-20241124013300-Animal_lover_666-20241124010900" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:33, 24 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-410" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>Recommended using 2FA (see <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:2FA" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:2FA">WP:2FA</a>) on all of your accounts. Never use your phone number as 2FA. <a href="/wiki/User:Ahri_Boy" title="User:Ahri Boy">Ahri Boy</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Ahri_Boy" title="User talk:Ahri Boy">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Ahri_Boy-20241124022100-Shovel_Shenanigans-20241124013300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:21, 24 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-411" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd> <dd>Would it bother anyone if I blocked this troll now? Or do we need to let him screw with us for longer first? <a href="/wiki/User:Floquenbeam" title="User:Floquenbeam">Floquenbeam</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Floquenbeam" title="User talk:Floquenbeam">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Floquenbeam-20241124020400-Shovel_Shenanigans-20241123234500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:04, 24 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-412" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd></dl>    </section></div> <noscript><img 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topic</a></div> <div class="printfooter" data-nosnippet="">Retrieved from "<a dir="ltr" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard&oldid=1259231726">https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard&oldid=1259231726</a>"</div></div> </div> <div class="post-content" id="page-secondary-actions"> </div> </main> <footer class="mw-footer minerva-footer" role="contentinfo"> <a class="last-modified-bar" href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard&action=history"> <div class="post-content last-modified-bar__content"> Last edited on 24 November 2024, at 02:21 </div> </a> <div class="post-content footer-content"> <div id="p-lang"> <h4>Languages</h4> <section> <ul id="p-variants" class="minerva-languages"></ul> <ul class="minerva-languages"><li class="interlanguage-link interwiki-ar mw-list-item"><a href="https://ar.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D9%88%D9%8A%D9%83%D9%8A%D8%A8%D9%8A%D8%AF%D9%8A%D8%A7:%D8%A5%D8%AE%D8%B7%D8%A7%D8%B1_%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%A5%D8%AF%D8%A7%D8%B1%D9%8A%D9%8A%D9%86" title="ويكيبيديا:إخطار الإداريين – Arabic" lang="ar" hreflang="ar" data-title="ويكيبيديا:إخطار الإداريين" data-language-autonym="العربية" data-language-local-name="Arabic" class="interlanguage-link-target">العربية</a></li><li class="interlanguage-link interwiki-az mw-list-item"><a href="https://az.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vikipediya:%C4%B0nzibat%C3%A7%C4%B1lara_m%C3%BCraci%C9%99t" title="Vikipediya:İnzibatçılara müraciət – Azerbaijani" lang="az" hreflang="az" data-title="Vikipediya:İnzibatçılara müraciət" data-language-autonym="Azərbaycanca" data-language-local-name="Azerbaijani" class="interlanguage-link-target">Azərbaycanca</a></li><li class="interlanguage-link interwiki-azb mw-list-item"><a href="https://azb.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D9%88%DB%8C%DA%A9%DB%8C%E2%80%8C%D9%BE%D8%AF%DB%8C%D8%A7:%D8%A7%DB%8C%D8%AF%D8%A7%D8%B1%D9%87%E2%80%8C%DA%86%DB%8C%D9%84%D8%B1_%D8%A8%DB%8C%D9%84%D8%AF%DB%8C%D8%B1%DB%8C_%D8%AA%D8%A7%D8%A8%D9%84%D9%88%D8%B3%D9%88" title="ویکی‌پدیا:ایداره‌چیلر بیلدیری تابلوسو – South Azerbaijani" lang="azb" hreflang="azb" data-title="ویکی‌پدیا:ایداره‌چیلر بیلدیری تابلوسو" data-language-autonym="تۆرکجه" data-language-local-name="South Azerbaijani" class="interlanguage-link-target">تۆرکجه</a></li><li class="interlanguage-link interwiki-bn mw-list-item"><a href="https://bn.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E0%A6%89%E0%A6%87%E0%A6%95%E0%A6%BF%E0%A6%AA%E0%A6%BF%E0%A6%A1%E0%A6%BF%E0%A6%AF%E0%A6%BC%E0%A6%BE:%E0%A6%AA%E0%A7%8D%E0%A6%B0%E0%A6%B6%E0%A6%BE%E0%A6%B8%E0%A6%95%E0%A6%A6%E0%A7%87%E0%A6%B0_%E0%A6%86%E0%A6%B2%E0%A7%8B%E0%A6%9A%E0%A6%A8%E0%A6%BE%E0%A6%B8%E0%A6%AD%E0%A6%BE" title="উইকিপিডিয়া:প্রশাসকদের আলোচনাসভা – Bangla" lang="bn" hreflang="bn" data-title="উইকিপিডিয়া:প্রশাসকদের আলোচনাসভা" data-language-autonym="বাংলা" data-language-local-name="Bangla" class="interlanguage-link-target">বাংলা</a></li><li class="interlanguage-link interwiki-bjn mw-list-item"><a href="https://bjn.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipidia:PPP" title="Wikipidia:PPP – Banjar" lang="bjn" hreflang="bjn" data-title="Wikipidia:PPP" data-language-autonym="Banjar" data-language-local-name="Banjar" class="interlanguage-link-target">Banjar</a></li><li class="interlanguage-link interwiki-bh mw-list-item"><a href="https://bh.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E0%A4%B5%E0%A4%BF%E0%A4%95%E0%A4%BF%E0%A4%AA%E0%A5%80%E0%A4%A1%E0%A4%BF%E0%A4%AF%E0%A4%BE:%E0%A4%AA%E0%A5%8D%E0%A4%B0%E0%A4%AC%E0%A4%82%E0%A4%A7%E0%A4%95_%E0%A4%B8%E0%A5%82%E0%A4%9A%E0%A4%A8%E0%A4%BE%E0%A4%AA%E0%A4%9F" title="विकिपीडिया:प्रबंधक सूचनापट – Bhojpuri" lang="bh" hreflang="bh" data-title="विकिपीडिया:प्रबंधक सूचनापट" data-language-autonym="भोजपुरी" data-language-local-name="Bhojpuri" class="interlanguage-link-target">भोजपुरी</a></li><li class="interlanguage-link interwiki-br mw-list-item"><a href="https://br.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Goulenn_ouzh_ar_verourien" title="Wikipedia:Goulenn ouzh ar verourien – Breton" lang="br" hreflang="br" data-title="Wikipedia:Goulenn ouzh ar verourien" data-language-autonym="Brezhoneg" data-language-local-name="Breton" class="interlanguage-link-target">Brezhoneg</a></li><li class="interlanguage-link interwiki-ca mw-list-item"><a href="https://ca.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viquip%C3%A8dia:Sala_dels_administradors" title="Viquipèdia:Sala dels administradors – Catalan" lang="ca" hreflang="ca" data-title="Viquipèdia:Sala dels administradors" data-language-autonym="Català" data-language-local-name="Catalan" class="interlanguage-link-target">Català</a></li><li class="interlanguage-link interwiki-cs mw-list-item"><a href="https://cs.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedie:N%C3%A1st%C4%9Bnka_spr%C3%A1vc%C5%AF" title="Wikipedie:Nástěnka správců – Czech" lang="cs" hreflang="cs" data-title="Wikipedie:Nástěnka správců" data-language-autonym="Čeština" data-language-local-name="Czech" class="interlanguage-link-target">Čeština</a></li><li class="interlanguage-link interwiki-cy mw-list-item"><a href="https://cy.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wicipedia:Negesfwrdd_gweinyddiaeth" title="Wicipedia:Negesfwrdd gweinyddiaeth – Welsh" lang="cy" hreflang="cy" data-title="Wicipedia:Negesfwrdd gweinyddiaeth" data-language-autonym="Cymraeg" data-language-local-name="Welsh" class="interlanguage-link-target">Cymraeg</a></li><li class="interlanguage-link interwiki-pdc mw-list-item"><a href="https://pdc.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrator_Requests" title="Wikipedia:Administrator Requests – Pennsylvania German" lang="pdc" hreflang="pdc" data-title="Wikipedia:Administrator Requests" data-language-autonym="Deitsch" data-language-local-name="Pennsylvania German" class="interlanguage-link-target">Deitsch</a></li><li class="interlanguage-link interwiki-de mw-list-item"><a href="https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administratoren/Notizen" title="Wikipedia:Administratoren/Notizen – German" lang="de" hreflang="de" data-title="Wikipedia:Administratoren/Notizen" data-language-autonym="Deutsch" data-language-local-name="German" class="interlanguage-link-target">Deutsch</a></li><li class="interlanguage-link interwiki-el mw-list-item"><a href="https://el.wikipedia.org/wiki/%CE%92%CE%B9%CE%BA%CE%B9%CF%80%CE%B1%CE%AF%CE%B4%CE%B5%CE%B9%CE%B1:%CE%A3%CE%B7%CE%BC%CE%B5%CE%B9%CF%89%CE%BC%CE%B1%CF%84%CE%AC%CF%81%CE%B9%CE%BF_%CE%B4%CE%B9%CE%B1%CF%87%CE%B5%CE%B9%CF%81%CE%B9%CF%83%CF%84%CF%8E%CE%BD" title="Βικιπαίδεια:Σημειωματάριο διαχειριστών – Greek" lang="el" hreflang="el" data-title="Βικιπαίδεια:Σημειωματάριο διαχειριστών" data-language-autonym="Ελληνικά" data-language-local-name="Greek" class="interlanguage-link-target">Ελληνικά</a></li><li class="interlanguage-link interwiki-es mw-list-item"><a href="https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Tabl%C3%B3n_de_anuncios_de_los_bibliotecarios/Portal/Archivo/Miscel%C3%A1nea/Actual" title="Wikipedia:Tablón de anuncios de los bibliotecarios/Portal/Archivo/Miscelánea/Actual – Spanish" lang="es" hreflang="es" data-title="Wikipedia:Tablón de anuncios de los bibliotecarios/Portal/Archivo/Miscelánea/Actual" data-language-autonym="Español" data-language-local-name="Spanish" class="interlanguage-link-target">Español</a></li><li class="interlanguage-link interwiki-eo mw-list-item"><a href="https://eo.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vikipedio:Diskutejo/Administrejo" title="Vikipedio:Diskutejo/Administrejo – Esperanto" lang="eo" hreflang="eo" data-title="Vikipedio:Diskutejo/Administrejo" data-language-autonym="Esperanto" data-language-local-name="Esperanto" class="interlanguage-link-target">Esperanto</a></li><li class="interlanguage-link interwiki-fa mw-list-item"><a href="https://fa.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D9%88%DB%8C%DA%A9%DB%8C%E2%80%8C%D9%BE%D8%AF%DB%8C%D8%A7:%D8%AA%D8%A7%D8%A8%D9%84%D9%88%DB%8C_%D8%A7%D8%B9%D9%84%D8%A7%D9%86%D8%A7%D8%AA_%D9%85%D8%AF%DB%8C%D8%B1%D8%A7%D9%86" title="ویکی‌پدیا:تابلوی اعلانات مدیران – Persian" lang="fa" hreflang="fa" data-title="ویکی‌پدیا:تابلوی اعلانات مدیران" data-language-autonym="فارسی" data-language-local-name="Persian" class="interlanguage-link-target">فارسی</a></li><li class="interlanguage-link interwiki-fr mw-list-item"><a href="https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikip%C3%A9dia:Bulletin_des_administrateurs" title="Wikipédia:Bulletin des administrateurs – French" lang="fr" hreflang="fr" data-title="Wikipédia:Bulletin des administrateurs" data-language-autonym="Français" data-language-local-name="French" class="interlanguage-link-target">Français</a></li><li class="interlanguage-link interwiki-gag mw-list-item"><a href="https://gag.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vikipediya:%C3%96nderciner_ba%C5%9Fvurma" title="Vikipediya:Önderciner başvurma – Gagauz" lang="gag" hreflang="gag" data-title="Vikipediya:Önderciner başvurma" data-language-autonym="Gagauz" data-language-local-name="Gagauz" class="interlanguage-link-target">Gagauz</a></li><li class="interlanguage-link interwiki-gl mw-list-item"><a href="https://gl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Taboleiro_dos_administradores" title="Wikipedia:Taboleiro dos administradores – Galician" lang="gl" hreflang="gl" data-title="Wikipedia:Taboleiro dos administradores" data-language-autonym="Galego" data-language-local-name="Galician" class="interlanguage-link-target">Galego</a></li><li class="interlanguage-link interwiki-gu mw-list-item"><a href="https://gu.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E0%AA%B5%E0%AA%BF%E0%AA%95%E0%AA%BF%E0%AA%AA%E0%AB%80%E0%AA%A1%E0%AA%BF%E0%AA%AF%E0%AA%BE:%E0%AA%AA%E0%AB%8D%E0%AA%B0%E0%AA%AC%E0%AA%82%E0%AA%A7%E0%AA%95%E0%AB%8B%E0%AA%A8%E0%AB%81%E0%AA%82_%E0%AA%B8%E0%AB%82%E0%AA%9A%E0%AA%A8%E0%AA%AA%E0%AA%9F" title="વિકિપીડિયા:પ્રબંધકોનું સૂચનપટ – Gujarati" lang="gu" hreflang="gu" data-title="વિકિપીડિયા:પ્રબંધકોનું સૂચનપટ" data-language-autonym="ગુજરાતી" data-language-local-name="Gujarati" class="interlanguage-link-target">ગુજરાતી</a></li><li class="interlanguage-link interwiki-ko mw-list-item"><a href="https://ko.wikipedia.org/wiki/%EC%9C%84%ED%82%A4%EB%B0%B1%EA%B3%BC:%EA%B4%80%EB%A6%AC%EC%9E%90_%EC%95%8C%EB%A6%BC%ED%8C%90" title="위키백과:관리자 알림판 – Korean" lang="ko" hreflang="ko" data-title="위키백과:관리자 알림판" data-language-autonym="한국어" data-language-local-name="Korean" class="interlanguage-link-target">한국어</a></li><li class="interlanguage-link interwiki-hy mw-list-item"><a href="https://hy.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D5%8E%D5%AB%D6%84%D5%AB%D5%BA%D5%A5%D5%A4%D5%AB%D5%A1:%D4%B1%D5%A4%D5%B4%D5%AB%D5%B6%D5%AB%D5%BD%D5%BF%D6%80%D5%A1%D5%BF%D5%B8%D6%80%D5%B6%D5%A5%D6%80%D5%AB_%D5%BF%D5%A5%D5%B2%D5%A5%D5%AF%D5%A1%D5%BF%D5%A1%D5%AD%D5%BF%D5%A1%D5%AF" title="Վիքիպեդիա:Ադմինիստրատորների տեղեկատախտակ – Armenian" lang="hy" hreflang="hy" data-title="Վիքիպեդիա:Ադմինիստրատորների տեղեկատախտակ" data-language-autonym="Հայերեն" data-language-local-name="Armenian" class="interlanguage-link-target">Հայերեն</a></li><li class="interlanguage-link interwiki-hi mw-list-item"><a href="https://hi.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E0%A4%B5%E0%A4%BF%E0%A4%95%E0%A4%BF%E0%A4%AA%E0%A5%80%E0%A4%A1%E0%A4%BF%E0%A4%AF%E0%A4%BE:%E0%A4%AA%E0%A5%8D%E0%A4%B0%E0%A4%AC%E0%A4%A8%E0%A5%8D%E0%A4%A7%E0%A4%95_%E0%A4%B8%E0%A5%82%E0%A4%9A%E0%A4%A8%E0%A4%BE%E0%A4%AA%E0%A4%9F" title="विकिपीडिया:प्रबन्धक सूचनापट – Hindi" lang="hi" hreflang="hi" data-title="विकिपीडिया:प्रबन्धक सूचनापट" data-language-autonym="हिन्दी" data-language-local-name="Hindi" class="interlanguage-link-target">हिन्दी</a></li><li class="interlanguage-link interwiki-hr mw-list-item"><a href="https://hr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedija:Na_pa%C5%BEnju_administratorima" title="Wikipedija:Na pažnju administratorima – Croatian" lang="hr" hreflang="hr" data-title="Wikipedija:Na pažnju administratorima" data-language-autonym="Hrvatski" data-language-local-name="Croatian" class="interlanguage-link-target">Hrvatski</a></li><li class="interlanguage-link interwiki-bpy mw-list-item"><a href="https://bpy.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E0%A6%89%E0%A6%87%E0%A6%95%E0%A6%BF%E0%A6%AA%E0%A6%BF%E0%A6%A1%E0%A6%BF%E0%A6%AF%E0%A6%BC%E0%A6%BE:%E0%A6%AA%E0%A7%8D%E0%A6%B0%E0%A6%B6%E0%A6%BE%E0%A6%B8%E0%A6%95%E0%A6%A6%E0%A7%87%E0%A6%B0_%E0%A6%86%E0%A6%B2%E0%A7%8B%E0%A6%9A%E0%A6%A8%E0%A6%BE%E0%A6%B8%E0%A6%AD%E0%A6%BE" title="উইকিপিডিয়া:প্রশাসকদের আলোচনাসভা – Bishnupriya" lang="bpy" hreflang="bpy" data-title="উইকিপিডিয়া:প্রশাসকদের আলোচনাসভা" data-language-autonym="বিষ্ণুপ্রিয়া মণিপুরী" data-language-local-name="Bishnupriya" class="interlanguage-link-target">বিষ্ণুপ্রিয়া মণিপুরী</a></li><li class="interlanguage-link interwiki-id mw-list-item"><a href="https://id.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Permintaan_perhatian_pengurus" title="Wikipedia:Permintaan perhatian pengurus – Indonesian" lang="id" hreflang="id" data-title="Wikipedia:Permintaan perhatian pengurus" data-language-autonym="Bahasa Indonesia" data-language-local-name="Indonesian" class="interlanguage-link-target">Bahasa Indonesia</a></li><li class="interlanguage-link interwiki-he badge-Q70894304 mw-list-item" title=""><a href="https://he.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D7%95%D7%99%D7%A7%D7%99%D7%A4%D7%93%D7%99%D7%94:AN" title="ויקיפדיה:AN – Hebrew" lang="he" hreflang="he" data-title="ויקיפדיה:AN" data-language-autonym="עברית" data-language-local-name="Hebrew" class="interlanguage-link-target">עברית</a></li><li class="interlanguage-link interwiki-jv mw-list-item"><a href="https://jv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikip%C3%A9dia:Panyuwunan_kawigat%C3%A8n_panata" title="Wikipédia:Panyuwunan kawigatèn panata – Javanese" lang="jv" hreflang="jv" data-title="Wikipédia:Panyuwunan kawigatèn panata" data-language-autonym="Jawa" data-language-local-name="Javanese" class="interlanguage-link-target">Jawa</a></li><li class="interlanguage-link interwiki-ks mw-list-item"><a href="https://ks.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D9%88%D9%90%DA%A9%DB%8C%D9%96%D9%BE%DB%8C%D9%96%DA%88%DB%8C%D8%A7:%D8%A7%D9%90%D9%86%D8%AA%D9%90%D8%B8%D9%B2%D9%85%D8%A0_%D8%A7%D9%90%D8%B7%D9%84%D8%A7%D8%B9_%D8%A7%D9%8E%D9%86%D8%AC%D9%8F%D9%85%D9%8E%D9%86" title="وِکیٖپیٖڈیا:اِنتِظٲمؠ اِطلاع اَنجُمَن – Kashmiri" lang="ks" hreflang="ks" data-title="وِکیٖپیٖڈیا:اِنتِظٲمؠ اِطلاع اَنجُمَن" data-language-autonym="कॉशुर / کٲشُر" data-language-local-name="Kashmiri" class="interlanguage-link-target">कॉशुर / کٲشُر</a></li><li class="interlanguage-link interwiki-kk mw-list-item"><a href="https://kk.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%A3%D0%B8%D0%BA%D0%B8%D0%BF%D0%B5%D0%B4%D0%B8%D1%8F:%D0%A4%D0%BE%D1%80%D1%83%D0%BC/%D0%90%D0%B4%D0%BC%D0%B8%D0%BD%D0%B8%D1%81%D1%82%D1%80%D0%B0%D1%82%D0%BE%D1%80%D0%BB%D0%B0%D1%80_%D1%84%D0%BE%D1%80%D1%83%D0%BC%D1%8B" title="Уикипедия:Форум/Администраторлар форумы – Kazakh" lang="kk" hreflang="kk" data-title="Уикипедия:Форум/Администраторлар форумы" data-language-autonym="Қазақша" data-language-local-name="Kazakh" class="interlanguage-link-target">Қазақша</a></li><li class="interlanguage-link interwiki-lo mw-list-item"><a href="https://lo.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E0%BA%A7%E0%BA%B4%E0%BA%81%E0%BA%B4%E0%BA%9E%E0%BA%B5%E0%BB%80%E0%BA%94%E0%BA%8D:%E0%BB%81%E0%BA%88%E0%BB%89%E0%BA%87%E0%BA%9C%E0%BA%B9%E0%BB%89%E0%BA%94%E0%BA%B9%E0%BB%81%E0%BA%A5%E0%BA%A5%E0%BA%B0%E0%BA%9A%E0%BA%BB%E0%BA%9A" title="ວິກິພີເດຍ:ແຈ້ງຜູ້ດູແລລະບົບ – Lao" lang="lo" hreflang="lo" data-title="ວິກິພີເດຍ:ແຈ້ງຜູ້ດູແລລະບົບ" data-language-autonym="ລາວ" data-language-local-name="Lao" class="interlanguage-link-target">ລາວ</a></li><li class="interlanguage-link interwiki-lv mw-list-item"><a href="https://lv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vikip%C4%93dija:Administratoru_zi%C5%86ojumu_d%C4%93lis" title="Vikipēdija:Administratoru ziņojumu dēlis – Latvian" lang="lv" hreflang="lv" data-title="Vikipēdija:Administratoru ziņojumu dēlis" data-language-autonym="Latviešu" data-language-local-name="Latvian" class="interlanguage-link-target">Latviešu</a></li><li class="interlanguage-link interwiki-hu mw-list-item"><a href="https://hu.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikip%C3%A9dia:Adminisztr%C3%A1torok_%C3%BCzen%C5%91fala" title="Wikipédia:Adminisztrátorok üzenőfala – Hungarian" lang="hu" hreflang="hu" data-title="Wikipédia:Adminisztrátorok üzenőfala" data-language-autonym="Magyar" data-language-local-name="Hungarian" class="interlanguage-link-target">Magyar</a></li><li class="interlanguage-link interwiki-mai mw-list-item"><a href="https://mai.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E0%A4%B5%E0%A4%BF%E0%A4%95%E0%A4%BF%E0%A4%AA%E0%A4%BF%E0%A4%A1%E0%A4%BF%E0%A4%AF%E0%A4%BE:%E0%A4%AA%E0%A5%8D%E0%A4%B0%E0%A4%AC%E0%A4%A8%E0%A5%8D%E0%A4%A7%E0%A4%95_%E0%A4%B8%E0%A5%82%E0%A4%9A%E0%A4%A8%E0%A4%BE%E0%A4%AA%E0%A4%9F%E0%A5%8D%E0%A4%9F" title="विकिपिडिया:प्रबन्धक सूचनापट्ट – Maithili" lang="mai" hreflang="mai" data-title="विकिपिडिया:प्रबन्धक सूचनापट्ट" data-language-autonym="मैथिली" data-language-local-name="Maithili" class="interlanguage-link-target">मैथिली</a></li><li class="interlanguage-link interwiki-mk mw-list-item"><a href="https://mk.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%92%D0%B8%D0%BA%D0%B8%D0%BF%D0%B5%D0%B4%D0%B8%D1%98%D0%B0:%D0%9E%D0%B3%D0%BB%D0%B0%D1%81%D0%BD%D0%B0_%D1%82%D0%B0%D0%B1%D0%BB%D0%B0_%D0%B7%D0%B0_%D0%B0%D0%B4%D0%BC%D0%B8%D0%BD%D0%B8%D1%81%D1%82%D1%80%D0%B0%D1%82%D0%BE%D1%80%D0%B8" title="Википедија:Огласна табла за администратори – Macedonian" lang="mk" hreflang="mk" data-title="Википедија:Огласна табла за администратори" data-language-autonym="Македонски" data-language-local-name="Macedonian" class="interlanguage-link-target">Македонски</a></li><li class="interlanguage-link interwiki-ml mw-list-item"><a href="https://ml.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E0%B4%B5%E0%B4%BF%E0%B4%95%E0%B5%8D%E0%B4%95%E0%B4%BF%E0%B4%AA%E0%B5%80%E0%B4%A1%E0%B4%BF%E0%B4%AF:%E0%B4%95%E0%B4%BE%E0%B4%B0%E0%B5%8D%E0%B4%AF%E0%B4%A8%E0%B4%BF%E0%B5%BC%E0%B4%B5%E0%B4%BE%E0%B4%B9%E0%B4%95%E0%B5%BC%E0%B4%95%E0%B5%8D%E0%B4%95%E0%B5%81%E0%B4%B3%E0%B5%8D%E0%B4%B3_%E0%B4%A8%E0%B5%8B%E0%B4%9F%E0%B5%8D%E0%B4%9F%E0%B5%80%E0%B4%B8%E0%B5%8D_%E0%B4%AC%E0%B5%8B%E0%B5%BC%E0%B4%A1%E0%B5%8D" title="വിക്കിപീഡിയ:കാര്യനിർവാഹകർക്കുള്ള നോട്ടീസ് ബോർഡ് – Malayalam" lang="ml" hreflang="ml" data-title="വിക്കിപീഡിയ:കാര്യനിർവാഹകർക്കുള്ള നോട്ടീസ് ബോർഡ്" data-language-autonym="മലയാളം" data-language-local-name="Malayalam" class="interlanguage-link-target">മലയാളം</a></li><li class="interlanguage-link interwiki-mr mw-list-item"><a href="https://mr.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E0%A4%B5%E0%A4%BF%E0%A4%95%E0%A4%BF%E0%A4%AA%E0%A5%80%E0%A4%A1%E0%A4%BF%E0%A4%AF%E0%A4%BE:%E0%A4%9A%E0%A4%BE%E0%A4%B5%E0%A4%A1%E0%A5%80/%E0%A4%AA%E0%A5%8D%E0%A4%B0%E0%A4%9A%E0%A4%BE%E0%A4%B2%E0%A4%95%E0%A4%BE%E0%A4%82%E0%A4%A8%E0%A4%BE_%E0%A4%A8%E0%A4%BF%E0%A4%B5%E0%A5%87%E0%A4%A6%E0%A4%A8" title="विकिपीडिया:चावडी/प्रचालकांना निवेदन – Marathi" lang="mr" hreflang="mr" data-title="विकिपीडिया:चावडी/प्रचालकांना निवेदन" data-language-autonym="मराठी" data-language-local-name="Marathi" class="interlanguage-link-target">मराठी</a></li><li class="interlanguage-link interwiki-arz mw-list-item"><a href="https://arz.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D9%88%D9%8A%D9%83%D9%8A%D8%A8%D9%8A%D8%AF%D9%8A%D8%A7:%D8%A7%D8%AF%D8%A7%D8%B1%D9%8A%D9%8A%D9%86/%D8%AA%D8%B5%D8%B1%D9%81_%D8%B6%D8%AF_%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%AA%D8%AE%D8%B1%D9%8A%D8%A8" title="ويكيبيديا:اداريين/تصرف ضد التخريب – Egyptian Arabic" lang="arz" hreflang="arz" data-title="ويكيبيديا:اداريين/تصرف ضد التخريب" data-language-autonym="مصرى" data-language-local-name="Egyptian Arabic" class="interlanguage-link-target">مصرى</a></li><li class="interlanguage-link interwiki-mzn mw-list-item"><a href="https://mzn.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D9%88%DB%8C%DA%A9%DB%8C%E2%80%8C%D9%BE%D8%AF%DB%8C%D8%A7:%D9%85%D8%AF%DB%8C%D8%B1%D9%88%D9%86_%D8%A7%D8%B9%D9%84%D8%A7%D9%86%D8%A7%D8%AA_%D8%AA%D8%A7%D8%A8%D9%84%D9%88" title="ویکی‌پدیا:مدیرون اعلانات تابلو – Mazanderani" lang="mzn" hreflang="mzn" data-title="ویکی‌پدیا:مدیرون اعلانات تابلو" data-language-autonym="مازِرونی" data-language-local-name="Mazanderani" class="interlanguage-link-target">مازِرونی</a></li><li class="interlanguage-link interwiki-ms mw-list-item"><a href="https://ms.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Penyelia/Papan_kenyataan" title="Wikipedia:Penyelia/Papan kenyataan – Malay" lang="ms" hreflang="ms" data-title="Wikipedia:Penyelia/Papan kenyataan" data-language-autonym="Bahasa Melayu" data-language-local-name="Malay" class="interlanguage-link-target">Bahasa Melayu</a></li><li class="interlanguage-link interwiki-mwl mw-list-item"><a href="https://mwl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biquip%C3%A9dia:Pedidos_als_admenistradores" title="Biquipédia:Pedidos als admenistradores – Mirandese" lang="mwl" hreflang="mwl" data-title="Biquipédia:Pedidos als admenistradores" data-language-autonym="Mirandés" data-language-local-name="Mirandese" class="interlanguage-link-target">Mirandés</a></li><li class="interlanguage-link interwiki-my mw-list-item"><a href="https://my.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E1%80%9D%E1%80%AE%E1%80%80%E1%80%AE%E1%80%95%E1%80%AE%E1%80%B8%E1%80%92%E1%80%AE%E1%80%B8%E1%80%9A%E1%80%AC%E1%80%B8:%E1%80%85%E1%80%AE%E1%80%99%E1%80%B6%E1%80%81%E1%80%94%E1%80%B7%E1%80%BA%E1%80%81%E1%80%BD%E1%80%B2%E1%80%9E%E1%80%B0%E1%80%99%E1%80%BB%E1%80%AC%E1%80%B8_%E1%80%9E%E1%80%84%E1%80%BA%E1%80%95%E1%80%AF%E1%80%94%E1%80%BA%E1%80%B8" title="ဝီကီပီးဒီးယား:စီမံခန့်ခွဲသူများ သင်ပုန်း – Burmese" lang="my" hreflang="my" data-title="ဝီကီပီးဒီးယား:စီမံခန့်ခွဲသူများ သင်ပုန်း" data-language-autonym="မြန်မာဘာသာ" data-language-local-name="Burmese" class="interlanguage-link-target">မြန်မာဘာသာ</a></li><li class="interlanguage-link interwiki-ja mw-list-item"><a href="https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:%E7%AE%A1%E7%90%86%E8%80%85%E4%BC%9D%E8%A8%80%E6%9D%BF" title="Wikipedia:管理者伝言板 – Japanese" lang="ja" hreflang="ja" data-title="Wikipedia:管理者伝言板" data-language-autonym="日本語" data-language-local-name="Japanese" class="interlanguage-link-target">日本語</a></li><li class="interlanguage-link interwiki-ce mw-list-item"><a href="https://ce.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%92%D0%B8%D0%BA%D0%B8%D0%BF%D0%B5%D0%B4%D0%B8:%D0%90%D0%B4%D0%BC%D0%B8%D0%BD%D0%B8%D1%81%D1%82%D1%80%D0%B0%D1%82%D0%BE%D1%80%D0%B8%D0%B9%D0%BD_%D1%84%D0%BE%D1%80%D1%83%D0%BC" title="Википеди:Администраторийн форум – Chechen" lang="ce" hreflang="ce" data-title="Википеди:Администраторийн форум" data-language-autonym="Нохчийн" data-language-local-name="Chechen" class="interlanguage-link-target">Нохчийн</a></li><li class="interlanguage-link interwiki-no mw-list-item"><a href="https://no.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administratorenes_oppslagstavle" title="Wikipedia:Administratorenes oppslagstavle – Norwegian Bokmål" lang="nb" hreflang="nb" data-title="Wikipedia:Administratorenes oppslagstavle" data-language-autonym="Norsk bokmål" data-language-local-name="Norwegian Bokmål" class="interlanguage-link-target">Norsk bokmål</a></li><li class="interlanguage-link interwiki-nn mw-list-item"><a href="https://nn.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Vaktmeistertenester" title="Wikipedia:Vaktmeistertenester – Norwegian Nynorsk" lang="nn" hreflang="nn" data-title="Wikipedia:Vaktmeistertenester" data-language-autonym="Norsk nynorsk" data-language-local-name="Norwegian Nynorsk" class="interlanguage-link-target">Norsk nynorsk</a></li><li class="interlanguage-link interwiki-oc mw-list-item"><a href="https://oc.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikip%C3%A8dia:Coordinacion_dels_admins" title="Wikipèdia:Coordinacion dels admins – Occitan" lang="oc" hreflang="oc" data-title="Wikipèdia:Coordinacion dels admins" data-language-autonym="Occitan" data-language-local-name="Occitan" class="interlanguage-link-target">Occitan</a></li><li class="interlanguage-link interwiki-mhr mw-list-item"><a href="https://mhr.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%92%D0%B8%D0%BA%D0%B8%D0%BF%D0%B5%D0%B4%D0%B8%D0%B9:%D0%92%D0%B8%D0%BA%D1%82%D0%B0%D1%80%D1%8B%D1%88%D0%B5_%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BA%D0%B5_%D0%B9%D0%BE%D0%B4%D1%8B%D1%88" title="Википедий:Виктарыше деке йодыш – Eastern Mari" lang="mhr" hreflang="mhr" data-title="Википедий:Виктарыше деке йодыш" data-language-autonym="Олык марий" data-language-local-name="Eastern Mari" class="interlanguage-link-target">Олык марий</a></li><li class="interlanguage-link interwiki-uz mw-list-item"><a href="https://uz.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vikipediya:Administratorlar_forumi" title="Vikipediya:Administratorlar forumi – Uzbek" lang="uz" hreflang="uz" data-title="Vikipediya:Administratorlar forumi" data-language-autonym="Oʻzbekcha / ўзбекча" data-language-local-name="Uzbek" class="interlanguage-link-target">Oʻzbekcha / ўзбекча</a></li><li class="interlanguage-link interwiki-ps mw-list-item"><a href="https://ps.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D9%88%D9%8A%DA%A9%D9%8A%D9%BE%DB%90%DA%89%D9%8A%D8%A7:%D8%AF_%D9%BE%D8%A7%D8%B2%D9%88%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%A7%D9%86%D9%88_%D8%AF_%D8%A7%D8%B9%D9%84%D8%A7%D9%86%D8%A7%D8%AA%D9%88_%D8%AA%D8%AE%D8%AA%D9%87" title="ويکيپېډيا:د پازوالانو د اعلاناتو تخته – Pashto" lang="ps" hreflang="ps" data-title="ويکيپېډيا:د پازوالانو د اعلاناتو تخته" data-language-autonym="پښتو" data-language-local-name="Pashto" class="interlanguage-link-target">پښتو</a></li><li class="interlanguage-link interwiki-km mw-list-item"><a href="https://km.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E1%9E%9C%E1%9E%B7%E1%9E%82%E1%9E%B8%E1%9E%97%E1%9E%B8%E1%9E%8C%E1%9E%B6:%E1%9E%87%E1%9E%BC%E1%9E%93%E1%9E%8A%E1%9F%86%E1%9E%8E%E1%9E%B9%E1%9E%84%E1%9E%8A%E1%9E%9B%E1%9F%8B%E1%9E%A2%E1%9F%92%E1%9E%93%E1%9E%80%E1%9E%A2%E1%9E%97%E1%9E%B7%E1%9E%94%E1%9E%B6%E1%9E%9B" title="វិគីភីឌា:ជូនដំណឹងដល់អ្នកអភិបាល – Khmer" lang="km" hreflang="km" data-title="វិគីភីឌា:ជូនដំណឹងដល់អ្នកអភិបាល" data-language-autonym="ភាសាខ្មែរ" data-language-local-name="Khmer" class="interlanguage-link-target">ភាសាខ្មែរ</a></li><li class="interlanguage-link interwiki-pt mw-list-item"><a href="https://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikip%C3%A9dia:Pedidos/Outros" title="Wikipédia:Pedidos/Outros – Portuguese" lang="pt" hreflang="pt" data-title="Wikipédia:Pedidos/Outros" data-language-autonym="Português" data-language-local-name="Portuguese" class="interlanguage-link-target">Português</a></li><li class="interlanguage-link interwiki-ro mw-list-item"><a href="https://ro.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Afi%C8%99ierul_administratorilor" title="Wikipedia:Afișierul administratorilor – Romanian" lang="ro" hreflang="ro" data-title="Wikipedia:Afișierul administratorilor" data-language-autonym="Română" data-language-local-name="Romanian" class="interlanguage-link-target">Română</a></li><li class="interlanguage-link interwiki-ru mw-list-item"><a href="https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%92%D0%B8%D0%BA%D0%B8%D0%BF%D0%B5%D0%B4%D0%B8%D1%8F:%D0%A4%D0%BE%D1%80%D1%83%D0%BC_%D0%B0%D0%B4%D0%BC%D0%B8%D0%BD%D0%B8%D1%81%D1%82%D1%80%D0%B0%D1%82%D0%BE%D1%80%D0%BE%D0%B2" title="Википедия:Форум администраторов – Russian" lang="ru" hreflang="ru" data-title="Википедия:Форум администраторов" data-language-autonym="Русский" data-language-local-name="Russian" class="interlanguage-link-target">Русский</a></li><li class="interlanguage-link interwiki-sah mw-list-item"><a href="https://sah.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%91%D0%B8%D0%BA%D0%B8%D0%BF%D0%B8%D1%8D%D0%B4%D1%8C%D0%B8%D0%B9%D1%8D:%D0%94%D1%8C%D0%B0%D2%BB%D0%B0%D0%B1%D1%8B%D0%BB%D0%BB%D0%B0%D1%80%D0%B3%D0%B0_%D0%BA%D3%A9%D1%80%D0%B4%D3%A9%D0%B1%D2%AF%D0%BB%D0%BB%D1%8D%D1%80" title="Бикипиэдьийэ:Дьаһабылларга көрдөбүллэр – Yakut" lang="sah" hreflang="sah" data-title="Бикипиэдьийэ:Дьаһабылларга көрдөбүллэр" data-language-autonym="Саха тыла" data-language-local-name="Yakut" class="interlanguage-link-target">Саха тыла</a></li><li class="interlanguage-link interwiki-sa mw-list-item"><a href="https://sa.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E0%A4%B5%E0%A4%BF%E0%A4%95%E0%A4%BF%E0%A4%AA%E0%A5%80%E0%A4%A1%E0%A4%BF%E0%A4%AF%E0%A4%BE:%E0%A4%AA%E0%A5%8D%E0%A4%B0%E0%A4%AC%E0%A4%A8%E0%A5%8D%E0%A4%A7%E0%A4%95%E0%A4%B8%E0%A5%82%E0%A4%9A%E0%A4%A8%E0%A4%BE%E0%A4%AA%E0%A4%9F%E0%A4%83" title="विकिपीडिया:प्रबन्धकसूचनापटः – Sanskrit" lang="sa" hreflang="sa" data-title="विकिपीडिया:प्रबन्धकसूचनापटः" data-language-autonym="संस्कृतम्" data-language-local-name="Sanskrit" class="interlanguage-link-target">संस्कृतम्</a></li><li class="interlanguage-link interwiki-skr mw-list-item"><a href="https://skr.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D9%88%DA%A9%DB%8C%D9%BE%DB%8C%DA%88%DB%8C%D8%A7:%D8%A7%DB%8C%DA%88%D9%85%D9%86%D8%B3%D9%B9%D8%B1%DB%8C%D9%B9%D8%B1_%D9%86%D9%88%D9%B9%D8%B3_%D8%A8%D9%88%D8%B1%DA%88" title="وکیپیڈیا:ایڈمنسٹریٹر نوٹس بورڈ – Saraiki" lang="skr" hreflang="skr" data-title="وکیپیڈیا:ایڈمنسٹریٹر نوٹس بورڈ" data-language-autonym="سرائیکی" data-language-local-name="Saraiki" class="interlanguage-link-target">سرائیکی</a></li><li class="interlanguage-link interwiki-sco mw-list-item"><a href="https://sco.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticebuird" title="Wikipedia:Administrators' noticebuird – Scots" lang="sco" hreflang="sco" data-title="Wikipedia:Administrators' noticebuird" data-language-autonym="Scots" data-language-local-name="Scots" class="interlanguage-link-target">Scots</a></li><li class="interlanguage-link interwiki-si mw-list-item"><a href="https://si.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E0%B7%80%E0%B7%92%E0%B6%9A%E0%B7%92%E0%B6%B4%E0%B7%93%E0%B6%A9%E0%B7%92%E0%B6%BA%E0%B7%8F:%E0%B6%B4%E0%B6%BB%E0%B7%92%E0%B6%B4%E0%B7%8F%E0%B6%BD%E0%B6%9A%E0%B7%80%E0%B6%BB%E0%B7%94%E0%B6%B1%E0%B7%8A%E0%B6%9C%E0%B7%9A_%E0%B6%AF%E0%B7%90%E0%B6%B1%E0%B7%8A%E0%B7%80%E0%B7%93%E0%B6%B8%E0%B7%8A_%E0%B6%B4%E0%B7%94%E0%B7%80%E0%B6%BB%E0%B7%94%E0%B7%80" title="විකිපීඩියා:පරිපාලකවරුන්ගේ දැන්වීම් පුවරුව – Sinhala" lang="si" hreflang="si" data-title="විකිපීඩියා:පරිපාලකවරුන්ගේ දැන්වීම් පුවරුව" data-language-autonym="සිංහල" data-language-local-name="Sinhala" class="interlanguage-link-target">සිංහල</a></li><li class="interlanguage-link interwiki-simple mw-list-item"><a href="https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard" title="Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard – Simple English" lang="en-simple" hreflang="en-simple" data-title="Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard" data-language-autonym="Simple English" data-language-local-name="Simple English" class="interlanguage-link-target">Simple English</a></li><li class="interlanguage-link interwiki-sd mw-list-item"><a href="https://sd.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D9%88%DA%AA%D9%8A%D9%BE%D9%8A%DA%8A%D9%8A%D8%A7:%D9%85%D9%86%D8%AA%D8%B8%D9%85%D9%8A%D9%86_%27%D9%86%D9%88%D9%BD%D8%B3_%D8%A8%D9%88%D8%B1%DA%8A" title="وڪيپيڊيا:منتظمين 'نوٽس بورڊ – Sindhi" lang="sd" hreflang="sd" data-title="وڪيپيڊيا:منتظمين 'نوٽس بورڊ" data-language-autonym="سنڌي" data-language-local-name="Sindhi" class="interlanguage-link-target">سنڌي</a></li><li class="interlanguage-link interwiki-sk mw-list-item"><a href="https://sk.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikip%C3%A9dia:N%C3%A1stenka_spr%C3%A1vcov" title="Wikipédia:Nástenka správcov – Slovak" lang="sk" hreflang="sk" data-title="Wikipédia:Nástenka správcov" data-language-autonym="Slovenčina" data-language-local-name="Slovak" class="interlanguage-link-target">Slovenčina</a></li><li class="interlanguage-link interwiki-so mw-list-item"><a href="https://so.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Ogaysiiska_Maamulka" title="Wikipedia:Ogaysiiska Maamulka – Somali" lang="so" hreflang="so" data-title="Wikipedia:Ogaysiiska Maamulka" data-language-autonym="Soomaaliga" data-language-local-name="Somali" class="interlanguage-link-target">Soomaaliga</a></li><li class="interlanguage-link interwiki-ckb mw-list-item"><a href="https://ckb.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D9%88%DB%8C%DA%A9%DB%8C%D9%BE%DB%8C%D8%AF%DB%8C%D8%A7:%DA%86%D8%A7%D9%88%D8%AF%DB%8E%D8%B1%DB%8C%DB%8C_%D8%A8%DB%95%DA%95%DB%8E%D9%88%DB%95%D8%A8%DB%95%D8%B1%D8%A7%DB%8C%DB%95%D8%AA%DB%8C" title="ویکیپیدیا:چاودێریی بەڕێوەبەرایەتی – Central Kurdish" lang="ckb" hreflang="ckb" data-title="ویکیپیدیا:چاودێریی بەڕێوەبەرایەتی" data-language-autonym="کوردی" data-language-local-name="Central Kurdish" class="interlanguage-link-target">کوردی</a></li><li class="interlanguage-link interwiki-sr mw-list-item"><a href="https://sr.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%92%D0%B8%D0%BA%D0%B8%D0%BF%D0%B5%D0%B4%D0%B8%D1%98%D0%B0:%D0%90%D0%B4%D0%BC%D0%B8%D0%BD%D0%B8%D1%81%D1%82%D1%80%D0%B0%D1%82%D0%BE%D1%80%D1%81%D0%BA%D0%B0_%D1%82%D0%B0%D0%B1%D0%BB%D0%B0" title="Википедија:Администраторска табла – Serbian" lang="sr" hreflang="sr" data-title="Википедија:Администраторска табла" data-language-autonym="Српски / srpski" data-language-local-name="Serbian" class="interlanguage-link-target">Српски / srpski</a></li><li class="interlanguage-link interwiki-sh mw-list-item"><a href="https://sh.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedija:Administratorska_tabla" title="Wikipedija:Administratorska tabla – Serbo-Croatian" lang="sh" hreflang="sh" data-title="Wikipedija:Administratorska tabla" data-language-autonym="Srpskohrvatski / српскохрватски" data-language-local-name="Serbo-Croatian" class="interlanguage-link-target">Srpskohrvatski / српскохрватски</a></li><li class="interlanguage-link interwiki-su mw-list-item"><a href="https://su.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Pamundut_perhatosan_kunc%C3%A9n" title="Wikipedia:Pamundut perhatosan kuncén – Sundanese" lang="su" hreflang="su" data-title="Wikipedia:Pamundut perhatosan kuncén" data-language-autonym="Sunda" data-language-local-name="Sundanese" class="interlanguage-link-target">Sunda</a></li><li class="interlanguage-link interwiki-fi mw-list-item"><a href="https://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Yll%C3%A4pit%C3%A4jien_ilmoitustaulu" title="Wikipedia:Ylläpitäjien ilmoitustaulu – Finnish" lang="fi" hreflang="fi" data-title="Wikipedia:Ylläpitäjien ilmoitustaulu" data-language-autonym="Suomi" data-language-local-name="Finnish" class="interlanguage-link-target">Suomi</a></li><li class="interlanguage-link interwiki-sv mw-list-item"><a href="https://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Kommentarer_om_administrationen_av_Wikipedia" title="Wikipedia:Kommentarer om administrationen av Wikipedia – Swedish" lang="sv" hreflang="sv" data-title="Wikipedia:Kommentarer om administrationen av Wikipedia" data-language-autonym="Svenska" data-language-local-name="Swedish" class="interlanguage-link-target">Svenska</a></li><li class="interlanguage-link interwiki-ta mw-list-item"><a href="https://ta.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E0%AE%B5%E0%AE%BF%E0%AE%95%E0%AF%8D%E0%AE%95%E0%AE%BF%E0%AE%AA%E0%AF%8D%E0%AE%AA%E0%AF%80%E0%AE%9F%E0%AE%BF%E0%AE%AF%E0%AE%BE:%E0%AE%A8%E0%AE%BF%E0%AE%B0%E0%AF%81%E0%AE%B5%E0%AE%BE%E0%AE%95%E0%AE%BF%E0%AE%95%E0%AE%B3%E0%AF%81%E0%AE%95%E0%AF%8D%E0%AE%95%E0%AE%BE%E0%AE%A9_%E0%AE%85%E0%AE%B1%E0%AE%BF%E0%AE%B5%E0%AE%BF%E0%AE%AA%E0%AF%8D%E0%AE%AA%E0%AF%81%E0%AE%AA%E0%AF%8D%E0%AE%AA%E0%AE%B2%E0%AE%95%E0%AF%88" title="விக்கிப்பீடியா:நிருவாகிகளுக்கான அறிவிப்புப்பலகை – Tamil" lang="ta" hreflang="ta" data-title="விக்கிப்பீடியா:நிருவாகிகளுக்கான அறிவிப்புப்பலகை" data-language-autonym="தமிழ்" data-language-local-name="Tamil" class="interlanguage-link-target">தமிழ்</a></li><li class="interlanguage-link interwiki-tt mw-list-item"><a href="https://tt.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%92%D0%B8%D0%BA%D0%B8%D0%BF%D0%B5%D0%B4%D0%B8%D1%8F:%D0%98%D0%B4%D0%B0%D1%80%D3%99%D1%87%D0%B5%D0%BB%D3%99%D1%80_%D1%84%D0%BE%D1%80%D1%83%D0%BC%D1%8B" title="Википедия:Идарәчеләр форумы – Tatar" lang="tt" hreflang="tt" data-title="Википедия:Идарәчеләр форумы" data-language-autonym="Татарча / tatarça" data-language-local-name="Tatar" class="interlanguage-link-target">Татарча / tatarça</a></li><li class="interlanguage-link interwiki-te mw-list-item"><a href="https://te.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E0%B0%B5%E0%B0%BF%E0%B0%95%E0%B1%80%E0%B0%AA%E0%B1%80%E0%B0%A1%E0%B0%BF%E0%B0%AF%E0%B0%BE:%E0%B0%A8%E0%B0%BF%E0%B0%B0%E0%B1%8D%E0%B0%B5%E0%B0%BE%E0%B0%B9%E0%B0%95%E0%B1%81%E0%B0%B2_%E0%B0%A8%E0%B1%8B%E0%B0%9F%E0%B1%80%E0%B0%B8%E0%B1%81_%E0%B0%AC%E0%B1%8B%E0%B0%B0%E0%B1%8D%E0%B0%A1%E0%B1%81" title="వికీపీడియా:నిర్వాహకుల నోటీసు బోర్డు – Telugu" lang="te" hreflang="te" data-title="వికీపీడియా:నిర్వాహకుల నోటీసు బోర్డు" data-language-autonym="తెలుగు" data-language-local-name="Telugu" class="interlanguage-link-target">తెలుగు</a></li><li class="interlanguage-link interwiki-th mw-list-item"><a href="https://th.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E0%B8%A7%E0%B8%B4%E0%B8%81%E0%B8%B4%E0%B8%9E%E0%B8%B5%E0%B9%80%E0%B8%94%E0%B8%B5%E0%B8%A2:%E0%B9%81%E0%B8%88%E0%B9%89%E0%B8%87%E0%B8%9C%E0%B8%B9%E0%B9%89%E0%B8%94%E0%B8%B9%E0%B9%81%E0%B8%A5%E0%B8%A3%E0%B8%B0%E0%B8%9A%E0%B8%9A" title="วิกิพีเดีย:แจ้งผู้ดูแลระบบ – Thai" lang="th" hreflang="th" data-title="วิกิพีเดีย:แจ้งผู้ดูแลระบบ" data-language-autonym="ไทย" data-language-local-name="Thai" class="interlanguage-link-target">ไทย</a></li><li class="interlanguage-link interwiki-tg mw-list-item"><a href="https://tg.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%92%D0%B8%D0%BA%D0%B8%D0%BF%D0%B5%D0%B4%D0%B8%D0%B0:%D2%9A%D0%B0%D2%B3%D0%B2%D0%B0%D1%85%D0%BE%D0%BD%D0%B0%D0%B8_%D0%BC%D1%83%D0%B4%D0%B8%D1%80%D0%BE%D0%BD" title="Википедиа:Қаҳвахонаи мудирон – Tajik" lang="tg" hreflang="tg" data-title="Википедиа:Қаҳвахонаи мудирон" data-language-autonym="Тоҷикӣ" data-language-local-name="Tajik" class="interlanguage-link-target">Тоҷикӣ</a></li><li class="interlanguage-link interwiki-tr mw-list-item"><a href="https://tr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vikipedi:Hizmetli_duyuru_panosu" title="Vikipedi:Hizmetli duyuru panosu – Turkish" lang="tr" hreflang="tr" data-title="Vikipedi:Hizmetli duyuru panosu" data-language-autonym="Türkçe" data-language-local-name="Turkish" class="interlanguage-link-target">Türkçe</a></li><li class="interlanguage-link interwiki-tw mw-list-item"><a href="https://tw.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikpedia:Mmoa" title="Wikpedia:Mmoa – Twi" lang="tw" hreflang="tw" data-title="Wikpedia:Mmoa" data-language-autonym="Twi" data-language-local-name="Twi" class="interlanguage-link-target">Twi</a></li><li class="interlanguage-link interwiki-uk mw-list-item"><a href="https://uk.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%92%D1%96%D0%BA%D1%96%D0%BF%D0%B5%D0%B4%D1%96%D1%8F:%D0%9A%D0%BD%D0%B0%D0%B9%D0%BF%D0%B0_(%D0%B0%D0%B4%D0%BC%D1%96%D0%BD%D1%96%D1%81%D1%82%D1%80%D1%83%D0%B2%D0%B0%D0%BD%D0%BD%D1%8F)" title="Вікіпедія:Кнайпа (адміністрування) – Ukrainian" lang="uk" hreflang="uk" data-title="Вікіпедія:Кнайпа (адміністрування)" data-language-autonym="Українська" data-language-local-name="Ukrainian" class="interlanguage-link-target">Українська</a></li><li class="interlanguage-link interwiki-ur mw-list-item"><a href="https://ur.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D9%88%DB%8C%DA%A9%DB%8C%D9%BE%DB%8C%DA%88%DB%8C%D8%A7:%D8%AF%DB%8C%D9%88%D8%A7%D9%86_%D8%AE%D8%A7%D8%B5" title="ویکیپیڈیا:دیوان خاص – Urdu" lang="ur" hreflang="ur" data-title="ویکیپیڈیا:دیوان خاص" data-language-autonym="اردو" data-language-local-name="Urdu" class="interlanguage-link-target">اردو</a></li><li class="interlanguage-link interwiki-vec mw-list-item"><a href="https://vec.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Aministradori/Domande_par_i_aministradori" title="Wikipedia:Aministradori/Domande par i aministradori – Venetian" lang="vec" hreflang="vec" data-title="Wikipedia:Aministradori/Domande par i aministradori" data-language-autonym="Vèneto" data-language-local-name="Venetian" 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