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id="toc-Voting_for_WikiProject_Military_history_coordinators_is_now_open!" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1 vector-toc-list-item-expanded"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Voting_for_WikiProject_Military_history_coordinators_is_now_open!"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">6</span> <span>Voting for WikiProject Military history coordinators is now open!</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">1 comment</span> <ul id="toc-Voting_for_WikiProject_Military_history_coordinators_is_now_open!-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-The_Signpost:_26_September_2024" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1 vector-toc-list-item-expanded"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#The_Signpost:_26_September_2024"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">7</span> <span><i>The Signpost</i>: 26 September 2024</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">1 comment</span> <ul id="toc-The_Signpost:_26_September_2024-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Good_article_reassessment_for_Kekal" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1 vector-toc-list-item-expanded"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Good_article_reassessment_for_Kekal"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">8</span> <span>Good article reassessment for Kekal</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">1 comment</span> <ul id="toc-Good_article_reassessment_for_Kekal-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-The_Signpost:_19_October_2024" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1 vector-toc-list-item-expanded"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#The_Signpost:_19_October_2024"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">9</span> <span><i>The Signpost</i>: 19 October 2024</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">1 comment</span> <ul id="toc-The_Signpost:_19_October_2024-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-The_Signpost:_6_November_2024" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1 vector-toc-list-item-expanded"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#The_Signpost:_6_November_2024"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">10</span> <span><i>The Signpost</i>: 6 November 2024</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">1 comment</span> <ul id="toc-The_Signpost:_6_November_2024-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Always_precious" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1 vector-toc-list-item-expanded"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Always_precious"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">11</span> <span>Always precious</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">1 comment</span> <ul id="toc-Always_precious-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Books_&_Bytes_–_Issue_65" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1 vector-toc-list-item-expanded"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Books_&_Bytes_–_Issue_65"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">12</span> <span>Books & Bytes – Issue 65</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">1 comment</span> <ul id="toc-Books_&_Bytes_–_Issue_65-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-List_of_Christian_metal" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1 vector-toc-list-item-expanded"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#List_of_Christian_metal"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">13</span> <span>List of Christian metal</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">26 comments</span> <ul id="toc-List_of_Christian_metal-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Nominations_now_open_for_the_WikiProject_Military_history_newcomer_of_the_year_and_military_historian_of_the_year" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1 vector-toc-list-item-expanded"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Nominations_now_open_for_the_WikiProject_Military_history_newcomer_of_the_year_and_military_historian_of_the_year"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">14</span> <span>Nominations now open for the WikiProject Military history newcomer of the year and military historian of the year</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">1 comment</span> <ul id="toc-Nominations_now_open_for_the_WikiProject_Military_history_newcomer_of_the_year_and_military_historian_of_the_year-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Disambiguation_link_notification_for_November_16" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1 vector-toc-list-item-expanded"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Disambiguation_link_notification_for_November_16"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">15</span> <span>Disambiguation link notification for November 16</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">1 comment</span> <ul id="toc-Disambiguation_link_notification_for_November_16-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Symphony_of_Heaven" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1 vector-toc-list-item-expanded"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Symphony_of_Heaven"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">16</span> <span>Symphony of Heaven</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">4 comments</span> <ul id="toc-Symphony_of_Heaven-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-The_Signpost:_18_November_2024" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1 vector-toc-list-item-expanded"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#The_Signpost:_18_November_2024"> <div 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class="diff-marker" /> <col class="diff-content" /> <tr class="diff-title" lang="en"> <td colspan="2" class="diff-otitle diff-side-deleted"><div id="mw-diff-otitle1"><strong><a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:3family6&oldid=1259978372" title="User talk:3family6">Revision as of 03:37, 28 November 2024</a> <span class="mw-diff-edit"><a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:3family6&action=edit&oldid=1259978372" title="User talk:3family6">edit</a></span><span class="mw-diff-timestamp" data-timestamp="2024-11-28T03:37:34Z"></span></strong></div><div id="mw-diff-otitle2"><a href="/wiki/User:Toa_Nidhiki05" class="mw-userlink" title="User:Toa Nidhiki05" data-mw-revid="1259978372"><bdi>Toa Nidhiki05</bdi></a> <span class="mw-usertoollinks">(<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Toa_Nidhiki05" class="mw-usertoollinks-talk" title="User talk:Toa Nidhiki05">talk</a> | <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Toa_Nidhiki05" class="mw-usertoollinks-contribs" title="Special:Contributions/Toa Nidhiki05">contribs</a>)</span><div class="mw-diff-usermetadata"><div class="mw-diff-userroles"><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Extended_confirmed_editors" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:Extended confirmed editors">Extended confirmed users</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Reviewing_pending_changes" title="Wikipedia:Reviewing pending changes">Pending changes reviewers</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Rollback" title="Wikipedia:Rollback">Rollbackers</a></div><div class="mw-diff-usereditcount"><span>26,800</span> edits</div></div></div><div id="mw-diff-otitle3"> <span class="comment comment--without-parentheses"><span class="autocomment"><a href="#Phantom_Tollbooth_source">→<bdi dir="ltr">Phantom Tollbooth source</bdi></a></span></span></div><div id="mw-diff-otitle5"></div><div id="mw-diff-otitle4"><a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:3family6&diff=prev&oldid=1259978372" title="User talk:3family6" id="differences-prevlink">← Previous edit</a></div></td> <td colspan="2" class="diff-ntitle diff-side-added"><div id="mw-diff-ntitle1"><strong><a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:3family6&oldid=1259979492" title="User talk:3family6">Revision as of 03:49, 28 November 2024</a> <span class="mw-diff-edit"><a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:3family6&action=edit&oldid=1259979492" title="User talk:3family6">edit</a></span><span class="mw-diff-timestamp" data-timestamp="2024-11-28T03:49:13Z"></span> <span class="mw-diff-undo"><a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:3family6&action=edit&undoafter=1259978372&undo=1259979492" title=""Undo" reverts this edit and opens the edit form in preview mode. It allows adding a reason in the summary.">undo</a></span></strong></div><div id="mw-diff-ntitle2"><a href="/wiki/User:3family6" class="mw-userlink" title="User:3family6" data-mw-revid="1259979492"><bdi>3family6</bdi></a> <span class="mw-usertoollinks">(<a href="/wiki/User_talk:3family6" class="mw-usertoollinks-talk" title="User talk:3family6">talk</a> | <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/3family6" class="mw-usertoollinks-contribs" title="Special:Contributions/3family6">contribs</a>)</span><div class="mw-diff-usermetadata"><div class="mw-diff-userroles"><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Autopatrolled" title="Wikipedia:Autopatrolled">Autopatrolled</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Extended_confirmed_editors" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:Extended confirmed editors">Extended confirmed users</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Mass_message_senders" title="Wikipedia:Mass message senders">Mass message senders</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Reviewing_pending_changes" title="Wikipedia:Reviewing pending changes">Pending changes reviewers</a></div><div class="mw-diff-usereditcount"><span>26,398</span> edits</div></div></div><div id="mw-diff-ntitle3"> <span class="comment comment--without-parentheses"><span class="autocomment"><a href="#Phantom_Tollbooth_source">→<bdi dir="ltr">Phantom Tollbooth source</bdi></a>: </span> Reply</span></div><div id="mw-diff-ntitle5"><span class="mw-tag-markers"><a href="/wiki/Special:Tags" title="Special:Tags">Tags</a>: <span class="mw-tag-marker mw-tag-marker-mobile_edit">Mobile edit</span> <span class="mw-tag-marker mw-tag-marker-mobile_app_edit">Mobile app edit</span> <span class="mw-tag-marker mw-tag-marker-android_app_edit">Android app edit</span> <span class="mw-tag-marker mw-tag-marker-app-talk-reply"><a class="external text" href="https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Apps/Mobile_App_Edits_Revision_Tags#app-talk-reply">App talk reply</a></span></span></div><div id="mw-diff-ntitle4"><a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:3family6&diff=next&oldid=1259979492" title="User talk:3family6" id="differences-nextlink">Next edit →</a></div></td> </tr><tr> <td colspan="2" class="diff-lineno">Line 226:</td> <td colspan="2" class="diff-lineno">Line 226:</td> </tr> <tr> <td class="diff-marker"></td> <td class="diff-context diff-side-deleted"><div>:@[[User:Toa Nidhiki05|Toa Nidhiki05]] this one I've presumed was reliable because it was listed at the Christian music sources before I was active as an editor, over 14 years ago. Functionally I don't see how it's any different from other sites deemed reliable, as it had a site operator and joint editorial staff with other people underneath. I was thinking today about how I don't think I've ever actually looked into use by others of this source. But I don't see a reason to automatically reject it. I guess it's a question of do you think that these reviews are going to improve the article at all?--[[User:3family6|<b style="color:navy">3family6</b>]] ([[User talk:3family6|<u style="color:black">Talk to me</u>]] &#124; [[Special:Contributions/3family6|<small style="color:purple">See what I have done</small>]]) 03:32, 28 November 2024 (UTC)</div></td> <td class="diff-marker"></td> <td class="diff-context diff-side-added"><div>:@[[User:Toa Nidhiki05|Toa Nidhiki05]] this one I've presumed was reliable because it was listed at the Christian music sources before I was active as an editor, over 14 years ago. Functionally I don't see how it's any different from other sites deemed reliable, as it had a site operator and joint editorial staff with other people underneath. I was thinking today about how I don't think I've ever actually looked into use by others of this source. But I don't see a reason to automatically reject it. I guess it's a question of do you think that these reviews are going to improve the article at all?--[[User:3family6|<b style="color:navy">3family6</b>]] ([[User talk:3family6|<u style="color:black">Talk to me</u>]] &#124; [[Special:Contributions/3family6|<small style="color:purple">See what I have done</small>]]) 03:32, 28 November 2024 (UTC)</div></td> </tr> <tr> <td class="diff-marker"></td> <td class="diff-context diff-side-deleted"><div>::Fair enough! I don't think I'll be using it in the improved article - the reviews don't add much here, aside from emphasizing how much they think Mac Powell sounds like Eddie Vedder and Third Day sounds like Pearl Jam - but I looked in archive and they did have some decently impressive interviews. Just curious, since I've never actually used it for anything and rarely seen it ever used. '''[[User:Toa Nidhiki05|<i style="color: green; font-family: Mistral;">Toa</i>]] [[User talk:Toa Nidhiki05|<i style="color: green; font-family: Mistral;">Nidhiki05</i>]]''' 03:37, 28 November 2024 (UTC)</div></td> <td class="diff-marker"></td> <td class="diff-context diff-side-added"><div>::Fair enough! I don't think I'll be using it in the improved article - the reviews don't add much here, aside from emphasizing how much they think Mac Powell sounds like Eddie Vedder and Third Day sounds like Pearl Jam - but I looked in archive and they did have some decently impressive interviews. Just curious, since I've never actually used it for anything and rarely seen it ever used. '''[[User:Toa Nidhiki05|<i style="color: green; font-family: Mistral;">Toa</i>]] [[User talk:Toa Nidhiki05|<i style="color: green; font-family: Mistral;">Nidhiki05</i>]]''' 03:37, 28 November 2024 (UTC)</div></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" class="diff-empty diff-side-deleted"></td> <td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td> <td class="diff-addedline diff-side-added"><div>:::@[[User:Toa Nidhiki05|Toa Nidhiki05]] "and rarely seen it ever used" - you don't read my articles, then, lol (I don't mind) [[User:3family6|<b style="color:navy">3family6</b>]] ([[User talk:3family6|<u style="color:black">Talk to me</u>]] &#124; [[Special:Contributions/3family6|<small style="color:purple">See what I have done</small>]]) 03:49, 28 November 2024 (UTC)</div></td> </tr> </table><hr class='diff-hr' id='mw-oldid' /> <h2 class='diff-currentversion-title'>Revision as of 03:49, 28 November 2024</h2> <div class="mw-content-ltr mw-parser-output" lang="en" dir="ltr"><p class="mw-empty-elt"> </p> <style data-mw-deduplicate="TemplateStyles:r1238436933">.mw-parser-output .ombox{margin:4px 0;border-collapse:collapse;border:1px solid #a2a9b1;background-color:var(--background-color-neutral-subtle,#f8f9fa);box-sizing:border-box;color:var(--color-base,#202122)}.mw-parser-output .ombox.mbox-small{font-size:88%;line-height:1.25em}.mw-parser-output .ombox-speedy{border:2px solid #b32424;background-color:#fee7e6}.mw-parser-output .ombox-delete{border:2px solid #b32424}.mw-parser-output .ombox-content{border:1px solid #f28500}.mw-parser-output .ombox-style{border:1px solid #fc3}.mw-parser-output .ombox-move{border:1px solid #9932cc}.mw-parser-output .ombox-protection{border:2px solid #a2a9b1}.mw-parser-output .ombox .mbox-text{border:none;padding:0.25em 0.9em;width:100%}.mw-parser-output .ombox .mbox-image{border:none;padding:2px 0 2px 0.9em;text-align:center}.mw-parser-output .ombox .mbox-imageright{border:none;padding:2px 0.9em 2px 0;text-align:center}.mw-parser-output .ombox .mbox-empty-cell{border:none;padding:0;width:1px}.mw-parser-output .ombox .mbox-invalid-type{text-align:center}@media(min-width:720px){.mw-parser-output .ombox{margin:4px 10%}.mw-parser-output .ombox.mbox-small{clear:right;float:right;margin:4px 0 4px 1em;width:238px}}body.skin--responsive .mw-parser-output table.ombox img{max-width:none!important}@media screen{html.skin-theme-clientpref-night .mw-parser-output .ombox-speedy{background-color:#310402}}@media screen and (prefers-color-scheme:dark){html.skin-theme-clientpref-os .mw-parser-output .ombox-speedy{background-color:#310402}}</style><table class="plainlinks ombox ombox-notice" role="presentation" style="border:1px solid var(--border-color-warning, #ffc9c9); background-color:var(--background-color-warning-subtle, #fffff3); color:var(--color-base, inherit); margin-left:0; margin-right:0;"><tbody><tr><td class="mbox-empty-cell"></td><td class="mbox-text" style="font-size:85%; text-align:center;"><b>This is a <span style="white-space:nowrap;"><span>Wiki</span><span>pedia</span></span> <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Talk_page_guidelines#User_talk_pages" title="Wikipedia:Talk page guidelines">user talk page</a>.</b><br/>This is not an encyclopedia article or the talk page for an encyclopedia article. 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padding: 1em;"> <tbody><tr> <td style="padding:0.6em 0 0.25em;"> <div style="width:100%; overflow:hidden;"><span typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Replacement_filing_cabinet.svg" class="mw-file-description"><img src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/2/2a/Replacement_filing_cabinet.svg/40px-Replacement_filing_cabinet.svg.png" decoding="async" width="40" height="40" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/2/2a/Replacement_filing_cabinet.svg/60px-Replacement_filing_cabinet.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/2/2a/Replacement_filing_cabinet.svg/80px-Replacement_filing_cabinet.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="200" data-file-height="200"/></a></span><br/><b>Archives</b></div> </td></tr><tr> <td class="plainlinks"> <p><a href="/wiki/User_talk:3family6/Archive_1" title="User talk:3family6/Archive 1">1</a>, <a href="/wiki/User_talk:3family6/Archive_2" title="User talk:3family6/Archive 2">2</a>, <a href="/wiki/User_talk:3family6/Archive_3" title="User talk:3family6/Archive 3">3</a>, <a href="/wiki/User_talk:3family6/Archive_4" title="User talk:3family6/Archive 4">4</a>, <a href="/wiki/User_talk:3family6/Archive_5" title="User talk:3family6/Archive 5">5</a>, <a href="/wiki/User_talk:3family6/Archive_6" title="User talk:3family6/Archive 6">6</a>, <a href="/wiki/User_talk:3family6/Archive_7" title="User talk:3family6/Archive 7">7</a>, <a href="/wiki/User_talk:3family6/Archive_8" title="User talk:3family6/Archive 8">8</a>, <a href="/wiki/User_talk:3family6/Archive_9" title="User talk:3family6/Archive 9">9</a>, <a href="/wiki/User_talk:3family6/Archive_10" title="User talk:3family6/Archive 10">10</a><br/><a href="/wiki/User_talk:3family6/Archive_11" title="User talk:3family6/Archive 11">11</a>, <a href="/wiki/User_talk:3family6/Archive_12" title="User talk:3family6/Archive 12">12</a>, <a href="/wiki/User_talk:3family6/Archive_13" title="User talk:3family6/Archive 13">13</a>, <a href="/wiki/User_talk:3family6/Archive_14" title="User talk:3family6/Archive 14">14</a>, <a href="/wiki/User_talk:3family6/Archive_15" title="User talk:3family6/Archive 15">15</a>, <a href="/wiki/User_talk:3family6/Archive_16" title="User talk:3family6/Archive 16">16</a>, <a href="/wiki/User_talk:3family6/Archive_17" title="User talk:3family6/Archive 17">17</a>, <a href="/wiki/User_talk:3family6/Archive_18" title="User talk:3family6/Archive 18">18</a>, <a href="/wiki/User_talk:3family6/Archive_19" title="User talk:3family6/Archive 19">19</a>, <a href="/wiki/User_talk:3family6/Archive_20" title="User talk:3family6/Archive 20">20</a><br/><a href="/wiki/User_talk:3family6/Archive_21" title="User talk:3family6/Archive 21">21</a>, <a href="/wiki/User_talk:3family6/Archive_22" title="User talk:3family6/Archive 22">22</a>, <a href="/wiki/User_talk:3family6/Archive_23" title="User talk:3family6/Archive 23">23</a> </p> </td> </tr><tr><td style="padding-bottom:11px"><div class="mw-inputbox-centered" style=""><form name="searchbox" class="searchbox mw-inputbox-form" action="/wiki/Special:Search"><div class="cdx-text-input"><input class="mw-inputbox-input mw-searchInput searchboxInput cdx-text-input__input" name="search" placeholder="" size="22" dir="ltr"/></div><input type="hidden" value="User talk:3family6/" name="prefix"/><br/><input type="submit" name="fulltext" value="Search archives" class="cdx-button"/><input type="hidden" value="Search" name="fulltext"/></form></div> </td></tr><tr><td style="padding:0px 10px; font-size:11.9px;"> <hr/> This page has archives. Sections older than <b>100 days</b> may be automatically archived by <span class="nowraplinks"><a href="/wiki/User:Lowercase_sigmabot_III" title="User:Lowercase sigmabot III">Lowercase sigmabot III</a></span> when more than 4 sections are present.</td></tr> </tbody></table> <meta property="mw:PageProp/toc"/> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Books_&_Bytes_–_Issue_63" data-mw-thread-id="h-Books_&_Bytes_–_Issue_63-20240718121500"><span id="Books_.26_Bytes_.E2.80.93_Issue_63"></span><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Books_&_Bytes_–_Issue_63-20240718121500"></span>Books & Bytes – Issue 63<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Books_&_Bytes_–_Issue_63-20240718121500"></span></h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <div lang="en" dir="ltr" class="mw-content-ltr"> <div style="font-size: 1.5em; margin: 0 100px;"> <span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-MediaWiki_message_delivery-20240718121500-Books_&_Bytes_–_Issue_63"></span><figure class="mw-halign-right" typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Bookshelf.jpg" class="mw-file-description"><img src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/2b/Bookshelf.jpg/175px-Bookshelf.jpg" decoding="async" width="175" height="116" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/2b/Bookshelf.jpg/263px-Bookshelf.jpg 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/2b/Bookshelf.jpg/350px-Bookshelf.jpg 2x" data-file-width="2987" data-file-height="1986"/></a><figcaption></figcaption></figure></div> <div style="line-height: 1.2;"> <p><span style="font-size: 2em; font-family: Copperplate, 'Copperplate Gothic Light', serif"><b>The Wikipedia Library</b>: <i>Books & Bytes</i></span><br/> Issue 63, May – June 2024 </p> </div> <div style="margin-top: 1.5em; border: 3px solid #ae8c55; border-radius: .5em; padding: 1em 1.5em; font-size: 1.2em;"> <ul><li>One new partner</li> <li>1Lib1Ref</li> <li>Spotlight: References check</li></ul> <p><big><b><a href="https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/The_Wikipedia_Library/Newsletter/May-June_2024" class="extiw" title="m:The Wikipedia Library/Newsletter/May-June 2024">Read the full newsletter</a></b></big> </p> </div> </div> <p><small>Sent by <a href="https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:MediaWiki_message_delivery" class="extiw" title="m:User:MediaWiki message delivery">MediaWiki message delivery</a> on behalf of The Wikipedia Library team --<a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:3family6#c-MediaWiki_message_delivery-20240718121500-Books_&_Bytes_–_Issue_63" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">12:15, 18 July 2024 (UTC)</a></small><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-MediaWiki_message_delivery-20240718121500-Books_&_Bytes_–_Issue_63"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-MediaWiki_message_delivery-20240718121500-Books_&_Bytes_–_Issue_63"></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Voting_for_coordinators_is_now_open!" data-mw-thread-id="h-Voting_for_coordinators_is_now_open!-20240901064000"><span id="Voting_for_coordinators_is_now_open.21"></span><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Voting_for_coordinators_is_now_open!-20240901064000"></span>Voting for coordinators is now open!<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Voting_for_coordinators_is_now_open!-20240901064000"></span></h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-MediaWiki_message_delivery-20240901064000-Voting_for_coordinators_is_now_open!"></span>Nominations for the upcoming project coordinator election have opened. A team of up to ten coordinators will be elected for the next coordination year. The project coordinators are the designated points of contact for issues concerning the project, and are responsible for maintaining our internal structure and processes. They do not, however, have any authority over article content or editor conduct, or any other special powers. More information on being a coordinator is available <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Military_history/Academy/Becoming_a_coordinator" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Military history/Academy/Becoming a coordinator">here</a>. If you are interested in running, please sign up <b><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Military_history/Coordinators/September_2024" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Military history/Coordinators/September 2024">here</a></b> by 23:59 UTC on 14 September! Voting will commence on 15 September. If you have any questions, you can contact any member of the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Military_history/Coordinators" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Military history/Coordinators">current coord team</a>. <a href="/wiki/User:MediaWiki_message_delivery" title="User:MediaWiki message delivery">MediaWiki message delivery</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:MediaWiki_message_delivery" title="User talk:MediaWiki message delivery">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:3family6#c-MediaWiki_message_delivery-20240901064000-Voting_for_coordinators_is_now_open!" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">06:40, 1 September 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-MediaWiki_message_delivery-20240901064000-Voting_for_coordinators_is_now_open!"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-MediaWiki_message_delivery-20240901064000-Voting_for_coordinators_is_now_open!"></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="The_Signpost:_4_September_2024" data-mw-thread-id="h-The_Signpost:_4_September_2024-20240904132400"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-The_Signpost:_4_September_2024-20240904132400"></span><i>The Signpost</i>: 4 September 2024<span data-mw-comment-end="h-The_Signpost:_4_September_2024-20240904132400"></span></h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <div lang="en" dir="ltr" class="mw-content-ltr"><div style="column-count:2;"> <ul><li><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-MediaWiki_message_delivery-20240904132400-The_Signpost:_4_September_2024"></span>News and notes: <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/2024-09-04/News_and_notes" title="Wikipedia:Wikipedia Signpost/2024-09-04/News and notes">WikiCup enters final round, MCDC wraps up activities, 17-year-old hoax article unmasked</a></li></ul> <ul><li>In the media: <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/2024-09-04/In_the_media" title="Wikipedia:Wikipedia Signpost/2024-09-04/In the media">AI is not playing games anymore. Is Wikipedia ready?</a></li></ul> <ul><li>Recent research: <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/2024-09-04/Recent_research" title="Wikipedia:Wikipedia Signpost/2024-09-04/Recent research">Simulated Wikipedia seen as less credible than ChatGPT and Alexa in experiment</a></li></ul> <ul><li>News from the WMF: <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/2024-09-04/News_from_the_WMF" title="Wikipedia:Wikipedia Signpost/2024-09-04/News from the WMF">Meet the 12 candidates running in the WMF Board of Trustees election</a></li></ul> <ul><li>Wikimania: <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/2024-09-04/Wikimania" title="Wikipedia:Wikipedia Signpost/2024-09-04/Wikimania">A month after Wikimania 2024</a></li></ul> <ul><li>Serendipity: <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/2024-09-04/Serendipity" title="Wikipedia:Wikipedia Signpost/2024-09-04/Serendipity">What it's like to be Wikimedian of the Year</a></li></ul> <ul><li>Traffic report: <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/2024-09-04/Traffic_report" title="Wikipedia:Wikipedia Signpost/2024-09-04/Traffic report">After the gold rush</a></li></ul> <ul><li>Humour: <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/2024-09-04/Humour" title="Wikipedia:Wikipedia Signpost/2024-09-04/Humour">Local man halfway through rude reply no longer able to recall why he hates other editor</a> </li></ul></div> <div class="hlist" style="margin-top:10px; font-size:90%; padding-left:5px; font-family:Georgia, Palatino, Palatino Linotype, Times, Times New Roman, serif;"> * <b><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost" title="Wikipedia:Wikipedia Signpost">Read this Signpost in full</a></b> * <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/Single/2024-09-04" title="Wikipedia:Wikipedia Signpost/Single/2024-09-04">Single-page</a> * <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/Subscribe" title="Wikipedia:Wikipedia Signpost/Subscribe">Unsubscribe</a> * <a href="/wiki/User:MediaWiki_message_delivery" title="User:MediaWiki message delivery">MediaWiki message delivery</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:MediaWiki_message_delivery" title="User talk:MediaWiki message delivery">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:3family6#c-MediaWiki_message_delivery-20240904132400-The_Signpost:_4_September_2024" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">13:24, 4 September 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-MediaWiki_message_delivery-20240904132400-The_Signpost:_4_September_2024"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-MediaWiki_message_delivery-20240904132400-The_Signpost:_4_September_2024"></span> </div></div> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Speedy_deletion_nomination_of_Category:Egypt_school_user_templates" data-mw-thread-id="h-Speedy_deletion_nomination_of_Category:Egypt_school_user_templates-20240910174600"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Speedy_deletion_nomination_of_Category:Egypt_school_user_templates-20240910174600"></span><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Criteria_for_speedy_deletion" title="Wikipedia:Criteria for speedy deletion">Speedy deletion</a> nomination of <a href="/w/index.php?title=Category:Egypt_school_user_templates&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category:Egypt school user templates (page does not exist)">Category:Egypt school user templates</a><span data-mw-comment-end="h-Speedy_deletion_nomination_of_Category:Egypt_school_user_templates-20240910174600"></span></h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Liz-20240910174600-Speedy_deletion_nomination_of_Category:Egypt_school_user_templates"></span><figure class="mw-halign-left" typeof="mw:File"><span><img alt="" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/1/15/Ambox_warning_pn.svg/48px-Ambox_warning_pn.svg.png" decoding="async" width="48" height="42" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/1/15/Ambox_warning_pn.svg/72px-Ambox_warning_pn.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/1/15/Ambox_warning_pn.svg/96px-Ambox_warning_pn.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="512" data-file-height="445"/></span><figcaption></figcaption></figure> <p>A tag has been placed on <a href="/w/index.php?title=Category:Egypt_school_user_templates&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category:Egypt school user templates (page does not exist)">Category:Egypt school user templates</a> indicating that it is currently empty, and is not a <a href="/wiki/Category:Disambiguation_categories" title="Category:Disambiguation categories">disambiguation category</a>, a <a href="/wiki/Category:Wikipedia_soft_redirected_categories" title="Category:Wikipedia soft redirected categories">category redirect</a>, a <a href="/wiki/Category:Wikipedia_featured_topics_categories" title="Category:Wikipedia featured topics categories">featured topics category</a>, under discussion at <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion" title="Wikipedia:Categories for discussion">Categories for discussion</a>, or a project category that by its nature may become empty on occasion. If it remains empty for seven days or more, it may be deleted under <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:CSD#C1" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:CSD">section C1 of the criteria for speedy deletion</a>. </p><p>If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason you may <b>contest the nomination</b> by <a href="/w/index.php?title=Category:Egypt_school_user_templates&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category:Egypt school user templates (page does not exist)">visiting the page</a> and removing the speedy deletion tag. <span style="font-family:Papyrus; color:#800080;"><a href="/wiki/User:Liz" title="User:Liz"><i><b>L</b></i>iz</a></span> <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;"><a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Liz" title="Special:Contributions/Liz"><i><b>Read!</b></i></a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Liz" title="User talk:Liz"><i><b>Talk!</b></i></a></sup> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:3family6#c-Liz-20240910174600-Speedy_deletion_nomination_of_Category:Egypt_school_user_templates" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:46, 10 September 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Liz-20240910174600-Speedy_deletion_nomination_of_Category:Egypt_school_user_templates"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Liz-20240910174600-Speedy_deletion_nomination_of_Category:Egypt_school_user_templates"></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Books_&_Bytes_–_Issue_64" data-mw-thread-id="h-Books_&_Bytes_–_Issue_64-20240911163300"><span id="Books_.26_Bytes_.E2.80.93_Issue_64"></span><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Books_&_Bytes_–_Issue_64-20240911163300"></span>Books & Bytes – Issue 64<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Books_&_Bytes_–_Issue_64-20240911163300"></span></h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <div lang="en" dir="ltr" class="mw-content-ltr"> <div style="font-size: 1.5em; margin: 0 100px;"> <span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-MediaWiki_message_delivery-20240911163300-Books_&_Bytes_–_Issue_64"></span><figure class="mw-halign-right" typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Bookshelf.jpg" class="mw-file-description"><img src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/2b/Bookshelf.jpg/175px-Bookshelf.jpg" decoding="async" width="175" height="116" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/2b/Bookshelf.jpg/263px-Bookshelf.jpg 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/2b/Bookshelf.jpg/350px-Bookshelf.jpg 2x" data-file-width="2987" data-file-height="1986"/></a><figcaption></figcaption></figure></div> <div style="line-height: 1.2;"> <p><span style="font-size: 2em; font-family: Copperplate, 'Copperplate Gothic Light', serif"><b>The Wikipedia Library</b>: <i>Books & Bytes</i></span><br/> Issue 64, July – August 2024 </p> </div> <div style="margin-top: 1.5em; border: 3px solid #ae8c55; border-radius: .5em; padding: 1em 1.5em; font-size: 1.2em;"> <ul><li>The Hindu Group joins The Wikipedia Library</li> <li>Wikimania presentation</li> <li>New user script for easily searching The Wikipedia Library</li></ul> <p><big><b><a href="https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/The_Wikipedia_Library/Newsletter/July-August_2024" class="extiw" title="m:The Wikipedia Library/Newsletter/July-August 2024">Read the full newsletter</a></b></big> </p> </div> </div> <p><small>Sent by <a href="https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:MediaWiki_message_delivery" class="extiw" title="m:User:MediaWiki message delivery">MediaWiki message delivery</a> on behalf of The Wikipedia Library team --<a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:3family6#c-MediaWiki_message_delivery-20240911163300-Books_&_Bytes_–_Issue_64" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:33, 11 September 2024 (UTC)</a></small><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-MediaWiki_message_delivery-20240911163300-Books_&_Bytes_–_Issue_64"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-MediaWiki_message_delivery-20240911163300-Books_&_Bytes_–_Issue_64"></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Voting_for_WikiProject_Military_history_coordinators_is_now_open!" data-mw-thread-id="h-Voting_for_WikiProject_Military_history_coordinators_is_now_open!-20240918183300"><span id="Voting_for_WikiProject_Military_history_coordinators_is_now_open.21"></span><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Voting_for_WikiProject_Military_history_coordinators_is_now_open!-20240918183300"></span>Voting for WikiProject Military history coordinators is now open!<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Voting_for_WikiProject_Military_history_coordinators_is_now_open!-20240918183300"></span></h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-MediaWiki_message_delivery-20240918183300-Voting_for_WikiProject_Military_history_coordinators_is_now_open!"></span>Voting for WikiProject Military history coordinators is now open! A team of up to ten coordinators will be elected for the next coordination year. Register your vote <b><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Military_history/Coordinators/September_2024" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Military history/Coordinators/September 2024">here</a></b> by 23:59 UTC on 29 September! <a href="/wiki/User:MediaWiki_message_delivery" title="User:MediaWiki message delivery">MediaWiki message delivery</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:MediaWiki_message_delivery" title="User talk:MediaWiki message delivery">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:3family6#c-MediaWiki_message_delivery-20240918183300-Voting_for_WikiProject_Military_history_coordinators_is_now_open!" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:33, 18 September 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-MediaWiki_message_delivery-20240918183300-Voting_for_WikiProject_Military_history_coordinators_is_now_open!"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-MediaWiki_message_delivery-20240918183300-Voting_for_WikiProject_Military_history_coordinators_is_now_open!"></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="The_Signpost:_26_September_2024" data-mw-thread-id="h-The_Signpost:_26_September_2024-20240926200700"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-The_Signpost:_26_September_2024-20240926200700"></span><i>The Signpost</i>: 26 September 2024<span data-mw-comment-end="h-The_Signpost:_26_September_2024-20240926200700"></span></h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <div lang="en" dir="ltr" class="mw-content-ltr"><div style="column-count:2;"> <ul><li><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-MediaWiki_message_delivery-20240926200700-The_Signpost:_26_September_2024"></span>In the media: <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/2024-09-26/In_the_media" title="Wikipedia:Wikipedia Signpost/2024-09-26/In the media">Courts order Wikipedia to give up names of editors, legal strain anticipated from "online safety laws"</a></li></ul> <ul><li>Community view: <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/2024-09-26/Community_view" title="Wikipedia:Wikipedia Signpost/2024-09-26/Community view">Indian courts order Wikipedia to take down name of crime victim, editors strive towards consensus</a></li></ul> <ul><li>Serendipity: <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/2024-09-26/Serendipity" title="Wikipedia:Wikipedia Signpost/2024-09-26/Serendipity">A Wikipedian at the 2024 Paralympics</a></li></ul> <ul><li>Opinion: <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/2024-09-26/Opinion" title="Wikipedia:Wikipedia Signpost/2024-09-26/Opinion">asilvering's RfA debriefing</a></li></ul> <ul><li>News and notes: <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/2024-09-26/News_and_notes" title="Wikipedia:Wikipedia Signpost/2024-09-26/News and notes">Are you ready for admin elections?</a></li></ul> <ul><li>Gallery: <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/2024-09-26/Gallery" title="Wikipedia:Wikipedia Signpost/2024-09-26/Gallery">Are Ludd<i>ai</i>tes defending the English Wikipedia?</a></li></ul> <ul><li>Recent research: <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/2024-09-26/Recent_research" title="Wikipedia:Wikipedia Signpost/2024-09-26/Recent research">Article-writing AI is less "prone to reasoning errors (or hallucinations)" than human Wikipedia editors</a></li></ul> <ul><li>Traffic report: <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/2024-09-26/Traffic_report" title="Wikipedia:Wikipedia Signpost/2024-09-26/Traffic report">Jump in the line, rock your body in time</a> </li></ul></div> <div class="hlist" style="margin-top:10px; font-size:90%; padding-left:5px; font-family:Georgia, Palatino, Palatino Linotype, Times, Times New Roman, serif;"> * <b><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost" title="Wikipedia:Wikipedia Signpost">Read this Signpost in full</a></b> * <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/Single/2024-09-26" title="Wikipedia:Wikipedia Signpost/Single/2024-09-26">Single-page</a> * <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/Subscribe" title="Wikipedia:Wikipedia Signpost/Subscribe">Unsubscribe</a> * <a href="/wiki/User:MediaWiki_message_delivery" title="User:MediaWiki message delivery">MediaWiki message delivery</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:MediaWiki_message_delivery" title="User talk:MediaWiki message delivery">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:3family6#c-MediaWiki_message_delivery-20240926200700-The_Signpost:_26_September_2024" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:07, 26 September 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-MediaWiki_message_delivery-20240926200700-The_Signpost:_26_September_2024"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-MediaWiki_message_delivery-20240926200700-The_Signpost:_26_September_2024"></span> </div></div> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Good_article_reassessment_for_Kekal" data-mw-thread-id="h-Good_article_reassessment_for_Kekal-20241013152800"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Good_article_reassessment_for_Kekal-20241013152800"></span>Good article reassessment for <a href="/wiki/Kekal" title="Kekal">Kekal</a><span data-mw-comment-end="h-Good_article_reassessment_for_Kekal-20241013152800"></span></h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><a href="/wiki/Kekal" title="Kekal"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Z1720-20241013152800-Good_article_reassessment_for_Kekal"></span>Kekal</a> has been nominated for a good article reassessment. If you are interested in the discussion, please participate by adding your comments to the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Good_article_reassessment/Kekal/1" title="Wikipedia:Good article reassessment/Kekal/1">reassessment page</a>. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, the good article status may be removed from the article. <a href="/wiki/User:Z1720" title="User:Z1720">Z1720</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Z1720" title="User talk:Z1720">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:3family6#c-Z1720-20241013152800-Good_article_reassessment_for_Kekal" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:28, 13 October 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Z1720-20241013152800-Good_article_reassessment_for_Kekal"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Z1720-20241013152800-Good_article_reassessment_for_Kekal"></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="The_Signpost:_19_October_2024" data-mw-thread-id="h-The_Signpost:_19_October_2024-20241019111200"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-The_Signpost:_19_October_2024-20241019111200"></span><i>The Signpost</i>: 19 October 2024<span data-mw-comment-end="h-The_Signpost:_19_October_2024-20241019111200"></span></h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <div lang="en" dir="ltr" class="mw-content-ltr"><div style="column-count:2;"> <ul><li><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-MediaWiki_message_delivery-20241019111200-The_Signpost:_19_October_2024"></span>News and notes: <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/2024-10-19/News_and_notes" title="Wikipedia:Wikipedia Signpost/2024-10-19/News and notes">One election's end, another election's beginning</a></li></ul> <ul><li>Recent research: <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/2024-10-19/Recent_research" title="Wikipedia:Wikipedia Signpost/2024-10-19/Recent research">"As many as 5%" of new English Wikipedia articles "contain significant AI-generated content", says paper</a></li></ul> <ul><li>In the media: <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/2024-10-19/In_the_media" title="Wikipedia:Wikipedia Signpost/2024-10-19/In the media">Off to the races! Wikipedia wins!</a></li></ul> <ul><li>Contest: <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/2024-10-19/Contest" title="Wikipedia:Wikipedia Signpost/2024-10-19/Contest">A WikiCup for the Global South</a></li></ul> <ul><li>Traffic report: <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/2024-10-19/Traffic_report" title="Wikipedia:Wikipedia Signpost/2024-10-19/Traffic report">A scream breaks the still of the night</a></li></ul> <ul><li>Book review: <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/2024-10-19/Book_review" title="Wikipedia:Wikipedia Signpost/2024-10-19/Book review"><i>The Editors</i></a></li></ul> <ul><li>Humour: <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/2024-10-19/Humour" title="Wikipedia:Wikipedia Signpost/2024-10-19/Humour"><i>The Newspaper Editors</i></a></li></ul> <ul><li>Crossword: <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/2024-10-19/Crossword" title="Wikipedia:Wikipedia Signpost/2024-10-19/Crossword">Spilled Coffee Mug</a> </li></ul></div> <div class="hlist" style="margin-top:10px; font-size:90%; padding-left:5px; font-family:Georgia, Palatino, Palatino Linotype, Times, Times New Roman, serif;"> * <b><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost" title="Wikipedia:Wikipedia Signpost">Read this Signpost in full</a></b> * <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/Single/2024-10-19" title="Wikipedia:Wikipedia Signpost/Single/2024-10-19">Single-page</a> * <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/Subscribe" title="Wikipedia:Wikipedia Signpost/Subscribe">Unsubscribe</a> * <a href="/wiki/User:MediaWiki_message_delivery" title="User:MediaWiki message delivery">MediaWiki message delivery</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:MediaWiki_message_delivery" title="User talk:MediaWiki message delivery">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:3family6#c-MediaWiki_message_delivery-20241019111200-The_Signpost:_19_October_2024" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">11:12, 19 October 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-MediaWiki_message_delivery-20241019111200-The_Signpost:_19_October_2024"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-MediaWiki_message_delivery-20241019111200-The_Signpost:_19_October_2024"></span> </div></div> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="The_Signpost:_6_November_2024" data-mw-thread-id="h-The_Signpost:_6_November_2024-20241106080300"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-The_Signpost:_6_November_2024-20241106080300"></span><i>The Signpost</i>: 6 November 2024<span data-mw-comment-end="h-The_Signpost:_6_November_2024-20241106080300"></span></h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <div lang="en" dir="ltr" class="mw-content-ltr"><div style="column-count:2;"> <ul><li><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-MediaWiki_message_delivery-20241106080300-The_Signpost:_6_November_2024"></span>From the editors: <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/2024-11-06/From_the_editors" title="Wikipedia:Wikipedia Signpost/2024-11-06/From the editors">Editing Wikipedia should not be a crime</a></li></ul> <ul><li>News and notes: <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/2024-11-06/News_and_notes" title="Wikipedia:Wikipedia Signpost/2024-11-06/News and notes">Wikimedia Foundation shares ANI lawsuit updates; first admin elections appoint eleven sysops; first admin recalls opened; temporary accounts coming soon?</a></li></ul> <ul><li>In the media: <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/2024-11-06/In_the_media" title="Wikipedia:Wikipedia Signpost/2024-11-06/In the media">An old scrimmage, politics and purported libel</a></li></ul> <ul><li>Special report: <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/2024-11-06/Special_report" title="Wikipedia:Wikipedia Signpost/2024-11-06/Special report">Wikipedia editors face litigation, censorship</a></li></ul> <ul><li>Gallery: <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/2024-11-06/Gallery" title="Wikipedia:Wikipedia Signpost/2024-11-06/Gallery">Why you should take more photos and upload them</a></li></ul> <ul><li>In focus: <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/2024-11-06/In_focus" title="Wikipedia:Wikipedia Signpost/2024-11-06/In focus">Questions and answers about the court case</a></li></ul> <ul><li>Traffic report: <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/2024-11-06/Traffic_report" title="Wikipedia:Wikipedia Signpost/2024-11-06/Traffic report">Twisted tricks or tempting treats?</a></li></ul> <ul><li>Technology report: <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/2024-11-06/Technology_report" title="Wikipedia:Wikipedia Signpost/2024-11-06/Technology report">Wikimedia tech, the Asian News International case, and the ultra-rare BLACKLOCK</a></li></ul> <ul><li>Humour: <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/2024-11-06/Humour" title="Wikipedia:Wikipedia Signpost/2024-11-06/Humour">Man quietly slinks away from talk page argument after realizing his argument dumb, wrong</a> </li></ul></div> <div class="hlist" style="margin-top:10px; font-size:90%; padding-left:5px; font-family:Georgia, Palatino, Palatino Linotype, Times, Times New Roman, serif;"> * <b><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost" title="Wikipedia:Wikipedia Signpost">Read this Signpost in full</a></b> * <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/Single/2024-11-06" title="Wikipedia:Wikipedia Signpost/Single/2024-11-06">Single-page</a> * <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/Subscribe" title="Wikipedia:Wikipedia Signpost/Subscribe">Unsubscribe</a> * <a href="/wiki/User:MediaWiki_message_delivery" title="User:MediaWiki message delivery">MediaWiki message delivery</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:MediaWiki_message_delivery" title="User talk:MediaWiki message delivery">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:3family6#c-MediaWiki_message_delivery-20241106080300-The_Signpost:_6_November_2024" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">08:03, 6 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-MediaWiki_message_delivery-20241106080300-The_Signpost:_6_November_2024"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-MediaWiki_message_delivery-20241106080300-The_Signpost:_6_November_2024"></span> </div></div> <div style="clear:both;" class=""></div> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Always_precious" data-mw-thread-id="h-Always_precious-20241106080900"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Always_precious-20241106080900"></span>Always precious<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Always_precious-20241106080900"></span></h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Gerda_Arendt-20241106080900-Always_precious"></span><figure class="mw-default-size mw-halign-right" typeof="mw:File/Frameless"><a href="/wiki/File:Yogo2783_Close_crop.JPG" class="mw-file-description"><img src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/0a/Yogo2783_Close_crop.JPG/110px-Yogo2783_Close_crop.JPG" decoding="async" width="110" height="110" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/0a/Yogo2783_Close_crop.JPG/165px-Yogo2783_Close_crop.JPG 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/0a/Yogo2783_Close_crop.JPG/220px-Yogo2783_Close_crop.JPG 2x" data-file-width="1000" data-file-height="1000"/></a><figcaption></figcaption></figure> <p>Ten years ago, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Quality_Article_Improvement/Precious#3family6" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Quality Article Improvement/Precious">you</a> were found precious. That's what you are, always. --<a href="/wiki/User:Gerda_Arendt" title="User:Gerda Arendt">Gerda Arendt</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Gerda_Arendt" title="User talk:Gerda Arendt">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:3family6#c-Gerda_Arendt-20241106080900-Always_precious" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">08:09, 6 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Gerda_Arendt-20241106080900-Always_precious"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Gerda_Arendt-20241106080900-Always_precious"></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Books_&_Bytes_–_Issue_65" data-mw-thread-id="h-Books_&_Bytes_–_Issue_65-20241112124900"><span id="Books_.26_Bytes_.E2.80.93_Issue_65"></span><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Books_&_Bytes_–_Issue_65-20241112124900"></span>Books & Bytes – Issue 65<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Books_&_Bytes_–_Issue_65-20241112124900"></span></h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <div lang="en" dir="ltr" class="mw-content-ltr"> <div style="font-size: 1.5em; margin: 0 100px;"> <span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-MediaWiki_message_delivery-20241112124900-Books_&_Bytes_–_Issue_65"></span><figure class="mw-halign-right" typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Bookshelf.jpg" class="mw-file-description"><img src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/2b/Bookshelf.jpg/175px-Bookshelf.jpg" decoding="async" width="175" height="116" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/2b/Bookshelf.jpg/263px-Bookshelf.jpg 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/2b/Bookshelf.jpg/350px-Bookshelf.jpg 2x" data-file-width="2987" data-file-height="1986"/></a><figcaption></figcaption></figure></div> <div style="line-height: 1.2;"> <p><span style="font-size: 2em; font-family: Copperplate, 'Copperplate Gothic Light', serif"><b>The Wikipedia Library</b>: <i>Books & Bytes</i></span><br/> Issue 65, September – October 2024 </p> </div> <div style="margin-top: 1.5em; border: 3px solid #ae8c55; border-radius: .5em; padding: 1em 1.5em; font-size: 1.2em;"> <ul><li>Hindu Tamil Thisai joins The Wikipedia Library</li> <li>Frankfurt Book Fair 2024 report</li> <li>Tech tip: Mass downloads</li></ul> <p><big><b><a href="https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/The_Wikipedia_Library/Newsletter/September-October_2024" class="extiw" title="m:The Wikipedia Library/Newsletter/September-October 2024">Read the full newsletter</a></b></big> </p> </div> </div> <p><small>Sent by <a href="https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:MediaWiki_message_delivery" class="extiw" title="m:User:MediaWiki message delivery">MediaWiki message delivery</a> on behalf of The Wikipedia Library team --<a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:3family6#c-MediaWiki_message_delivery-20241112124900-Books_&_Bytes_–_Issue_65" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">12:49, 12 November 2024 (UTC)</a></small><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-MediaWiki_message_delivery-20241112124900-Books_&_Bytes_–_Issue_65"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-MediaWiki_message_delivery-20241112124900-Books_&_Bytes_–_Issue_65"></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="List_of_Christian_metal" data-mw-thread-id="h-List_of_Christian_metal-20241114143900"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-List_of_Christian_metal-20241114143900"></span>List of Christian metal<span data-mw-comment-end="h-List_of_Christian_metal-20241114143900"></span></h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Graywalls-20241114143900-List_of_Christian_metal"></span>One source is more than sufficient, if even needed at all. The idea is that if you were to put "tomato" into "list of fruits", you'd visit the article <a href="/wiki/Tomato" title="Tomato">tomato</a> and the connection is verified there, so it's unnecessary to re-confirm something that's already verifiable in the target article, let alone have multiple sources. I think using one bland book, and citing it repeatedly though would deter refspamming. I don't think Indie Vision Music meets <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:RS" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:RS">WP:RS</a>, but has there been a discussion somewhere? Please see huge COI between a major contributor and that publication at <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Conflict_of_interest/Noticeboard#User:Metalworker14" title="Wikipedia:Conflict of interest/Noticeboard">Wikipedia:Conflict_of_interest/Noticeboard#User:Metalworker14</a> <a href="/wiki/User:Graywalls" title="User:Graywalls">Graywalls</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Graywalls" title="User talk:Graywalls">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:3family6#c-Graywalls-20241114143900-List_of_Christian_metal" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">14:39, 14 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Graywalls-20241114143900-List_of_Christian_metal"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Graywalls-20241114143900-List_of_Christian_metal"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-3family6-20241114145000-Graywalls-20241114143900"></span>@<a href="/wiki/User:Graywalls" title="User:Graywalls">Graywalls</a> I'm fine with it being reduced to one citation, and bands cited in the lead not needing one. The list is contentious, so there do need to be citations.</dd> <dd>I was unaware of that COI, but I've used Indie Vision Music for years here. It meets the criteria for RS and it's listed at <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Christian_music/Sources" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Christian music/Sources">Wikipedia:WikiProject_Christian_music/Sources</a>--<a href="/wiki/User:3family6" title="User:3family6"><b style="color:navy">3family6</b></a> (<a class="mw-selflink selflink"><u style="color:black">Talk to me</u></a> | <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/3family6" title="Special:Contributions/3family6"><small style="color:purple">See what I have done</small></a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:3family6#c-3family6-20241114145000-Graywalls-20241114143900" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">14:50, 14 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-3family6-20241114145000-Graywalls-20241114143900"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-3family6-20241114145000-Graywalls-20241114143900"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Graywalls-20241114145300-3family6-20241114145000"></span>I say that if the only verification is entirely self-proclaimed... and work towards purging some of the bands through AfD or PROD as many are likely non-notable as well. <a href="/wiki/User:Graywalls" title="User:Graywalls">Graywalls</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Graywalls" title="User talk:Graywalls">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:3family6#c-Graywalls-20241114145300-3family6-20241114145000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">14:53, 14 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Graywalls-20241114145300-3family6-20241114145000"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Graywalls-20241114145300-3family6-20241114145000"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-3family6-20241114150000-Graywalls-20241114145300"></span>@<a href="/wiki/User:Graywalls" title="User:Graywalls">Graywalls</a> Or you could, you know, use the sources that were on the list to rescue the articles. Come on, dude.--<a href="/wiki/User:3family6" title="User:3family6"><b style="color:navy">3family6</b></a> (<a class="mw-selflink selflink"><u style="color:black">Talk to me</u></a> | <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/3family6" title="Special:Contributions/3family6"><small style="color:purple">See what I have done</small></a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:3family6#c-3family6-20241114150000-Graywalls-20241114145300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:00, 14 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-3family6-20241114150000-Graywalls-20241114145300"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-3family6-20241114150000-Graywalls-20241114145300"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Graywalls-20241114150300-3family6-20241114150000"></span>I was talking verifiability wise. There are plenty that passes genre verification while not passing NALBUM. <a href="/wiki/User:Graywalls" title="User:Graywalls">Graywalls</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Graywalls" title="User talk:Graywalls">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:3family6#c-Graywalls-20241114150300-3family6-20241114150000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:03, 14 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Graywalls-20241114150300-3family6-20241114150000"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Graywalls-20241114150300-3family6-20241114150000"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-3family6-20241114150600-Graywalls-20241114150300"></span>@<a href="/wiki/User:Graywalls" title="User:Graywalls">Graywalls</a> if they've made it onto the list, they're reliable. Respectfully, I've been working in this particular niche on this project since 2010. A lot of entries need rescuing, but there's plenty of sourcing for it (some of it now on Internet Archive, unfortunately, making it harder to access, but still).--<a href="/wiki/User:3family6" title="User:3family6"><b style="color:navy">3family6</b></a> (<a class="mw-selflink selflink"><u style="color:black">Talk to me</u></a> | <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/3family6" title="Special:Contributions/3family6"><small style="color:purple">See what I have done</small></a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:3family6#c-3family6-20241114150600-Graywalls-20241114150300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:06, 14 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-3family6-20241114150600-Graywalls-20241114150300"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-3family6-20241114150600-Graywalls-20241114150300"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-3family6-20241115144300-3family6-20241114150600"></span>I'm cleaning up the refs, and I agree that some of the "newer" entries (added less than ≈8 years ago) might not be up to notability standards. I was a bit annoyed yesterday, because of long-term burnout from trying to hold up this subject area mostly alone now, I apologize for getting a bit snippy.--<a href="/wiki/User:3family6" title="User:3family6"><b style="color:navy">3family6</b></a> (<a class="mw-selflink selflink"><u style="color:black">Talk to me</u></a> | <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/3family6" title="Special:Contributions/3family6"><small style="color:purple">See what I have done</small></a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:3family6#c-3family6-20241115144300-3family6-20241114150600" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">14:43, 15 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-3family6-20241115144300-3family6-20241114150600"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-3family6-20241115144300-3family6-20241114150600"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-3family6-20241114150300-Graywalls-20241114145300"></span>@<a href="/wiki/User:Graywalls" title="User:Graywalls">Graywalls</a> Over the years, this or that band will get removed (or added) by an editor, plus these are BLP statements that involve deeply personal beliefs. Those issues are why there's been long-standing consensus that every entry needs a citation proving the band is metal and is considered Christian.--<a href="/wiki/User:3family6" title="User:3family6"><b style="color:navy">3family6</b></a> (<a class="mw-selflink selflink"><u style="color:black">Talk to me</u></a> | <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/3family6" title="Special:Contributions/3family6"><small style="color:purple">See what I have done</small></a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:3family6#c-3family6-20241114150300-Graywalls-20241114145300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:03, 14 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-3family6-20241114150300-Graywalls-20241114145300"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-3family6-20241114150300-Graywalls-20241114145300"></span></dd></dl></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-3family6-20241114145400-3family6-20241114145000"></span>Indie Vision Music isn't mentioned in that COI--<a href="/wiki/User:3family6" title="User:3family6"><b style="color:navy">3family6</b></a> (<a class="mw-selflink selflink"><u style="color:black">Talk to me</u></a> | <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/3family6" title="Special:Contributions/3family6"><small style="color:purple">See what I have done</small></a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:3family6#c-3family6-20241114145400-3family6-20241114145000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">14:54, 14 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-3family6-20241114145400-3family6-20241114145000"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-3family6-20241114145400-3family6-20241114145000"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Graywalls-20241114150000-3family6-20241114145400"></span>I have not figured out a good way to add it there and link the two together without violating <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:OUTING" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:OUTING">WP:OUTING</a>. Although, the Metalworker14 and IVM COI should be fairly easy to figure out using Google and a bit of subject area knowledge. Also, I suspect <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:RS" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:RS">WP:RS</a> status, because I am not sure if authors' posts make it into public space similar to <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:FORBESCON" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:FORBESCON">Forbes</a> and <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:HUFFPOCON" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:HUFFPOCON">HuffPo</a> contributor articles or they go through editorial board with qualified editors comparable to say <a href="/wiki/Vogue_magazine" class="mw-redirect" title="Vogue magazine">Vogue magazine</a>. Can you explain their editorial process since you're vouching for them as reliable? <a href="/wiki/User:Graywalls" title="User:Graywalls">Graywalls</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Graywalls" title="User talk:Graywalls">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:3family6#c-Graywalls-20241114150000-3family6-20241114145400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:00, 14 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Graywalls-20241114150000-3family6-20241114145400"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Graywalls-20241114150000-3family6-20241114145400"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-3family6-20241114150400-Graywalls-20241114150000"></span>@<a href="/wiki/User:Graywalls" title="User:Graywalls">Graywalls</a> will do, I believe it's been discussed somewhere, too <a href="/wiki/User:3family6" title="User:3family6"><b style="color:navy">3family6</b></a> (<a class="mw-selflink selflink"><u style="color:black">Talk to me</u></a> | <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/3family6" title="Special:Contributions/3family6"><small style="color:purple">See what I have done</small></a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:3family6#c-3family6-20241114150400-Graywalls-20241114150000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:04, 14 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-3family6-20241114150400-Graywalls-20241114150000"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-3family6-20241114150400-Graywalls-20241114150000"></span></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-3family6-20241114150800-Graywalls-20241114150000"></span>@<a href="/wiki/User:Graywalls" title="User:Graywalls">Graywalls</a> I used IVM prior to Metalworker14, I believe, and I'm not affiliated with it, anyway, so it's not a COI for me.--<a href="/wiki/User:3family6" title="User:3family6"><b style="color:navy">3family6</b></a> (<a class="mw-selflink selflink"><u style="color:black">Talk to me</u></a> | <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/3family6" title="Special:Contributions/3family6"><small style="color:purple">See what I have done</small></a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:3family6#c-3family6-20241114150800-Graywalls-20241114150000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:08, 14 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-3family6-20241114150800-Graywalls-20241114150000"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-3family6-20241114150800-Graywalls-20241114150000"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Graywalls-20241114153700-3family6-20241114150800"></span>I'll check on the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:RS" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:RS">WP:RS</a> status on RS/N. I see the list in your question don't have many editor participation, as number of editors overseeing it. As a hypothetical example, f you ask Wiki Project Trains, they might say some rail fanning book on trains sold through Author House is reliable as fans consider that author an expert even if that said author's formal citation creds don't satisfy <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:EXPERTSPS" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:EXPERTSPS">WP:EXPERTSPS</a> <a href="/wiki/User:Graywalls" title="User:Graywalls">Graywalls</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Graywalls" title="User talk:Graywalls">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:3family6#c-Graywalls-20241114153700-3family6-20241114150800" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:37, 14 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Graywalls-20241114153700-3family6-20241114150800"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Graywalls-20241114153700-3family6-20241114150800"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-3family6-20241114154300-Graywalls-20241114153700"></span>@<a href="/wiki/User:Graywalls" title="User:Graywalls">Graywalls</a> there's long been a lack of active editors in this subject, which is also why I'm a bit annoyed that you would just delete articles rather than helping rescue them. Often it's just me now in this subject area and I don't have the time that I once did. I for one vet sources and there's been many I've rejected and removed.--<a href="/wiki/User:3family6" title="User:3family6"><b style="color:navy">3family6</b></a> (<a class="mw-selflink selflink"><u style="color:black">Talk to me</u></a> | <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/3family6" title="Special:Contributions/3family6"><small style="color:purple">See what I have done</small></a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:3family6#c-3family6-20241114154300-Graywalls-20241114153700" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:43, 14 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-3family6-20241114154300-Graywalls-20241114153700"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-3family6-20241114154300-Graywalls-20241114153700"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-3family6-20241114155700-3family6-20241114154300"></span>My process, which has been a long-standing process and how it's done at the RS noticeboard, is to check for editorial staff, if there's a print version, and see if other, already established RS either refers to or uses content from that source (thus demonstrating a reputation of trustworthiness) or otherwise discuss the source (for instance, very recently I added Angelic Warlord because, in addition to the multiple staff for the site, an academic journal article said it's an accurate source). I do try to get consensus from other editors, it's been increasingly difficult as I'm often the lone person doing it (and the more recent contributor Metalworker14 is apparently a COI and likely paid editor).--<a href="/wiki/User:3family6" title="User:3family6"><b style="color:navy">3family6</b></a> (<a class="mw-selflink selflink"><u style="color:black">Talk to me</u></a> | <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/3family6" title="Special:Contributions/3family6"><small style="color:purple">See what I have done</small></a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:3family6#c-3family6-20241114155700-3family6-20241114154300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:57, 14 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-3family6-20241114155700-3family6-20241114154300"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-3family6-20241114155700-3family6-20241114154300"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Graywalls-20241116011400-3family6-20241114150800"></span>That user Metalworker14 was just blocked today after their undisclosed paid editing allegation was substantiated. <a href="/wiki/User:Graywalls" title="User:Graywalls">Graywalls</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Graywalls" title="User talk:Graywalls">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:3family6#c-Graywalls-20241116011400-3family6-20241114150800" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:14, 16 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Graywalls-20241116011400-3family6-20241114150800"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Graywalls-20241116011400-3family6-20241114150800"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-3family6-20241116015500-Graywalls-20241116011400"></span>@<a href="/wiki/User:Graywalls" title="User:Graywalls">Graywalls</a> thank you. I saw that. Also, while working on tidying the Christian metal list I saw an article (I can't remember which one, I'll find it again) which was created by them and had a COI notice from 2015! I think the now-blocked editor Walter Görlitz put it up. Why that didn't get escalated I have no idea. Metalworker14 might have very well been engaging in undisclosed paid editing for 10 years! Well, it's finally addressed, now. I guess the only thing for it is to clean up, salvage, and possibly, if need be, demolish what they've left after all</dd> <dd>this.<a href="/wiki/User:3family6" title="User:3family6"><b style="color:navy">3family6</b></a> (<a class="mw-selflink selflink"><u style="color:black">Talk to me</u></a> | <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/3family6" title="Special:Contributions/3family6"><small style="color:purple">See what I have done</small></a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:3family6#c-3family6-20241116015500-Graywalls-20241116011400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:55, 16 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-3family6-20241116015500-Graywalls-20241116011400"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-3family6-20241116015500-Graywalls-20241116011400"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Graywalls-20241116020600-3family6-20241116015500"></span>All <b>record labels</b> that do not meet <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:NCORP" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:NCORP">WP:NCORP</a> should be deleted. As for bands, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:NBAND" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:NBAND">WP:NBAND</a> 5&6 are rubbish in my opinion and I am currently challenging to have that removed. <a href="/wiki/User:Graywalls" title="User:Graywalls">Graywalls</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Graywalls" title="User talk:Graywalls">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:3family6#c-Graywalls-20241116020600-3family6-20241116015500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:06, 16 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Graywalls-20241116020600-3family6-20241116015500"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Graywalls-20241116020600-3family6-20241116015500"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-3family6-20241116114000-Graywalls-20241116020600"></span>@<a href="/wiki/User:Graywalls" title="User:Graywalls">Graywalls</a> I agree to both of those --<a href="/wiki/User:3family6" title="User:3family6"><b style="color:navy">3family6</b></a> (<a class="mw-selflink selflink"><u style="color:black">Talk to me</u></a> | <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/3family6" title="Special:Contributions/3family6"><small style="color:purple">See what I have done</small></a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:3family6#c-3family6-20241116114000-Graywalls-20241116020600" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">11:40, 16 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-3family6-20241116114000-Graywalls-20241116020600"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-3family6-20241116114000-Graywalls-20241116020600"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-3family6-20241114154100-Graywalls-20241114150000"></span>@<a href="/wiki/User:Graywalls" title="User:Graywalls">Graywalls</a> ah, I agree about the COI. I figured out which individual you were referring to. That certainly would make that individual unreliable for anything regarding the bands they are part of. I wouldn't say that disqualifies the publication, or author (unless paid editing) just as <i><a href="/wiki/HM_(magazine)" title="HM (magazine)">HM</a></i> and Doug Van Pelt are reliable, just not for <a href="/wiki/Lust_Control" title="Lust Control">Lust Control</a>. Incidentally, the founder of IVM (different from the suspected Symphony of Heaven COI individual) writes for "HM" as well, which is one reason (in addition to the fact that there's a staff and it's not just one lone person) that I and others have long-presumed IVM being reliable (<i>HM</i> is <i>Vogue</i> for Christian metal).--<a href="/wiki/User:3family6" title="User:3family6"><b style="color:navy">3family6</b></a> (<a class="mw-selflink selflink"><u style="color:black">Talk to me</u></a> | <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/3family6" title="Special:Contributions/3family6"><small style="color:purple">See what I have done</small></a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:3family6#c-3family6-20241114154100-Graywalls-20241114150000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:41, 14 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-3family6-20241114154100-Graywalls-20241114150000"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-3family6-20241114154100-Graywalls-20241114150000"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Graywalls-20241114155300-3family6-20241114154100"></span>That's not quite how it works. If you and I were both auto enthusiasts who track race together and we buddy up with you being the writer and me being the editor, that's not sufficient to make our web zine as a <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:RS" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:RS">WP:RS</a> with editorial oversight and I feel that many of these music zines/magazines are of comparable setup and are only a notch above a one person blog and comparable to <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:FORBESCON" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:FORBESCON">WP:FORBESCON</a>. <a href="/wiki/User:Graywalls" title="User:Graywalls">Graywalls</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Graywalls" title="User talk:Graywalls">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:3family6#c-Graywalls-20241114155300-3family6-20241114154100" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:53, 14 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Graywalls-20241114155300-3family6-20241114154100"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Graywalls-20241114155300-3family6-20241114154100"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-3family6-20241114155900-Graywalls-20241114155300"></span>@<a href="/wiki/User:Graywalls" title="User:Graywalls">Graywalls</a> the connection I did above, with <i>HM</i> referencing IVM and sharing writers is how demonstrating the reputation of accuracy has been done. For at least a decade now. Volunteer staff are explicitly allowed, as well.--<a href="/wiki/User:3family6" title="User:3family6"><b style="color:navy">3family6</b></a> (<a class="mw-selflink selflink"><u style="color:black">Talk to me</u></a> | <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/3family6" title="Special:Contributions/3family6"><small style="color:purple">See what I have done</small></a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:3family6#c-3family6-20241114155900-Graywalls-20241114155300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:59, 14 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-3family6-20241114155900-Graywalls-20241114155300"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-3family6-20241114155900-Graywalls-20241114155300"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Graywalls-20241114160400-3family6-20241114155900"></span>I'll leave IVM alone for the time being. I'll run it through RS/N when I have a moment, or you can if you'd like. <a href="/wiki/User:Graywalls" title="User:Graywalls">Graywalls</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Graywalls" title="User talk:Graywalls">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:3family6#c-Graywalls-20241114160400-3family6-20241114155900" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:04, 14 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Graywalls-20241114160400-3family6-20241114155900"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Graywalls-20241114160400-3family6-20241114155900"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-3family6-20241114160600-Graywalls-20241114160400"></span>@<a href="/wiki/User:Graywalls" title="User:Graywalls">Graywalls</a> I'll run it. It'll be later as right now I'm on mobile and that'll be easier to do on PC --<a href="/wiki/User:3family6" title="User:3family6"><b style="color:navy">3family6</b></a> (<a class="mw-selflink selflink"><u style="color:black">Talk to me</u></a> | <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/3family6" title="Special:Contributions/3family6"><small style="color:purple">See what I have done</small></a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:3family6#c-3family6-20241114160600-Graywalls-20241114160400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:06, 14 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-3family6-20241114160600-Graywalls-20241114160400"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-3family6-20241114160600-Graywalls-20241114160400"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-3family6-20241114222000-3family6-20241114160600"></span>Done. See the discussion. Thanks for bringing this up, as I'm using IVM in an article draft and have used them countless times over the past 11+ years.--<a href="/wiki/User:3family6" title="User:3family6"><b style="color:navy">3family6</b></a> (<a class="mw-selflink selflink"><u style="color:black">Talk to me</u></a> | <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/3family6" title="Special:Contributions/3family6"><small style="color:purple">See what I have done</small></a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:3family6#c-3family6-20241114222000-3family6-20241114160600" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:20, 14 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-3family6-20241114222000-3family6-20241114160600"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-3family6-20241114222000-3family6-20241114160600"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd> <dd><a href="/wiki/User:Graywalls" title="User:Graywalls"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-3family6-20241115131900-3family6-20241114154100"></span>Graywalls</a> I noticed that the individual in question no longer writes for IVM since they joined a particular band (which you have referenced elsewhere) <a href="/wiki/User:3family6" title="User:3family6"><b style="color:navy">3family6</b></a> (<a class="mw-selflink selflink"><u style="color:black">Talk to me</u></a> | <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/3family6" title="Special:Contributions/3family6"><small style="color:purple">See what I have done</small></a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:3family6#c-3family6-20241115131900-3family6-20241114154100" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">13:19, 15 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-3family6-20241115131900-3family6-20241114154100"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-3family6-20241115131900-3family6-20241114154100"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Nominations_now_open_for_the_WikiProject_Military_history_newcomer_of_the_year_and_military_historian_of_the_year" data-mw-thread-id="h-Nominations_now_open_for_the_WikiProject_Military_history_newcomer_of_the_year_a-20241116042000"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Nominations_now_open_for_the_WikiProject_Military_history_newcomer_of_the_year_a-20241116042000"></span>Nominations now open for the WikiProject Military history newcomer of the year and military historian of the year<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Nominations_now_open_for_the_WikiProject_Military_history_newcomer_of_the_year_a-20241116042000"></span></h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-MediaWiki_message_delivery-20241116042000-Nominations_now_open_for_the_WikiProject_Military_history_newcomer_of_the_year_a"></span>Nominations now open for the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Military_History" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Military History">WikiProject Military History</a> <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Military_history/Awards/MHNOTY" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Military history/Awards/MHNOTY">newcomer of the year</a> and <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Military_history/Awards/MHOTY" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Military history/Awards/MHOTY">military historian of the year</a> awards for 2024! The the top editors will be awarded the coveted Gold Wiki. Nominations are open <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Military_history#Nominations_for_military_history_newcomer_of_the_year_for_2024_are_open!" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Military history">here</a> and <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Military_history#Nominations_for_military_historian_of_the_year_for_2024_are_open!" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Military history">here</a> respectively. The nomination period closes at 23:59 on 30 November 2024 when voting begins. On behalf of the coordinators, wishing you the very best for the festive season and the new year. MediaWiki message delivery via <a href="/wiki/User:MediaWiki_message_delivery" title="User:MediaWiki message delivery">MediaWiki message delivery</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:MediaWiki_message_delivery" title="User talk:MediaWiki message delivery">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:3family6#c-MediaWiki_message_delivery-20241116042000-Nominations_now_open_for_the_WikiProject_Military_history_newcomer_of_the_year_a" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">04:20, 16 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-MediaWiki_message_delivery-20241116042000-Nominations_now_open_for_the_WikiProject_Military_history_newcomer_of_the_year_a"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-MediaWiki_message_delivery-20241116042000-Nominations_now_open_for_the_WikiProject_Military_history_newcomer_of_the_year_a"></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Disambiguation_link_notification_for_November_16" data-mw-thread-id="h-Disambiguation_link_notification_for_November_16-20241116075400"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Disambiguation_link_notification_for_November_16-20241116075400"></span>Disambiguation link notification for November 16<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Disambiguation_link_notification_for_November_16-20241116075400"></span></h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-DPL_bot-20241116075400-Disambiguation_link_notification_for_November_16"></span>An automated process has detected that when you recently edited <a href="/wiki/List_of_Christian_metal_artists" title="List of Christian metal artists">List of Christian metal artists</a>, you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page <a href="/wiki/Alternative_Press" class="mw-redirect mw-disambig" title="Alternative Press">Alternative Press</a>. </p><p>(<a href="/wiki/User:DPL_bot" title="User:DPL bot">Opt-out instructions</a>.) --<a href="/wiki/User:DPL_bot" title="User:DPL bot">DPL bot</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:DPL_bot" title="User talk:DPL bot">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:3family6#c-DPL_bot-20241116075400-Disambiguation_link_notification_for_November_16" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">07:54, 16 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-DPL_bot-20241116075400-Disambiguation_link_notification_for_November_16"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-DPL_bot-20241116075400-Disambiguation_link_notification_for_November_16"></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Symphony_of_Heaven" data-mw-thread-id="h-Symphony_of_Heaven-20241117214600"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Symphony_of_Heaven-20241117214600"></span>Symphony of Heaven<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Symphony_of_Heaven-20241117214600"></span></h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Graywalls-20241117214600-Symphony_of_Heaven"></span>The more I look at it, the shakier it's looking. The most recent edit, the author of the source I removed was former/current band member. This band is from Indiana. A lot of edits other than logged-in edits by Metalworker14 are anonymous IP edits from the US State of Indiana. It's possible the band is actually NOT notable all many of these non-independent sources are there to <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:MASK" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:MASK">mask</a> the lack of notability or to present things in a way the band wants to present it. Do you feel this article has a successful chance of deletion with AfD? <a href="/wiki/User:Graywalls" title="User:Graywalls">Graywalls</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Graywalls" title="User talk:Graywalls">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:3family6#c-Graywalls-20241117214600-Symphony_of_Heaven" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:46, 17 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Graywalls-20241117214600-Symphony_of_Heaven"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Graywalls-20241117214600-Symphony_of_Heaven"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-3family6-20241117223300-Graywalls-20241117214600"></span>@<a href="/wiki/User:Graywalls" title="User:Graywalls">Graywalls</a> in the current state, absolutely it would get deleted. I would say to check and see if other, more clearly established/agreed, reliable or independent sources provide coverage - <i>HM</i>, Cross Rhythms, Jesus Freak Hideout, etc. if you're still not seeing anything, then absolutely go for it.--<a href="/wiki/User:3family6" title="User:3family6"><b style="color:navy">3family6</b></a> (<a class="mw-selflink selflink"><u style="color:black">Talk to me</u></a> | <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/3family6" title="Special:Contributions/3family6"><small style="color:purple">See what I have done</small></a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:3family6#c-3family6-20241117223300-Graywalls-20241117214600" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:33, 17 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-3family6-20241117223300-Graywalls-20241117214600"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-3family6-20241117223300-Graywalls-20241117214600"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-3family6-20241117224200-3family6-20241117223300"></span>As an aside, well done on catching that COI and paid editing. I think they'd been doing this in some capacity since at least 2014-15. Again, I have to go back and find the article, but I think Walter Görlitz (now blocked for sockpuppeting) I noticed something fishy and tagged the article with a COI notice. it's a shame that they ended up getting blocked for an unrelated disputed, because I think their input for both the Indie Vision Music discussion and this issue would have been very helpful. Ah, well, what's happened has happened. I appreciate that you've the galvanized me to get back into a bit of editing (I was actually working on a piece in my sandbox, which I paused on because I rely on Indie Vision Music for some of it). I'll try and help do some cleanup and tagging, I already got to a few articles from the Christian metal list.--<a href="/wiki/User:3family6" title="User:3family6"><b style="color:navy">3family6</b></a> (<a class="mw-selflink selflink"><u style="color:black">Talk to me</u></a> | <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/3family6" title="Special:Contributions/3family6"><small style="color:purple">See what I have done</small></a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:3family6#c-3family6-20241117224200-3family6-20241117223300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:42, 17 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-3family6-20241117224200-3family6-20241117223300"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-3family6-20241117224200-3family6-20241117223300"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-3family6-20241118000700-3family6-20241117224200"></span>I've done a search, <a href="/wiki/User:Graywalls" title="User:Graywalls">Graywalls</a>, and I can only find two sources of good coverage - <i>HM</i> and The Metal Resource. Generally, at least three sources are needed to prove notability. I think it's safe to nominate for deletion, personally.--<a href="/wiki/User:3family6" title="User:3family6"><b style="color:navy">3family6</b></a> (<a class="mw-selflink selflink"><u style="color:black">Talk to me</u></a> | <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/3family6" title="Special:Contributions/3family6"><small style="color:purple">See what I have done</small></a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:3family6#c-3family6-20241118000700-3family6-20241117224200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:07, 18 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-3family6-20241118000700-3family6-20241117224200"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-3family6-20241118000700-3family6-20241117224200"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="The_Signpost:_18_November_2024" data-mw-thread-id="h-The_Signpost:_18_November_2024-20241118234000"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-The_Signpost:_18_November_2024-20241118234000"></span><i>The Signpost</i>: 18 November 2024<span data-mw-comment-end="h-The_Signpost:_18_November_2024-20241118234000"></span></h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <div lang="en" dir="ltr" class="mw-content-ltr"><div style="column-count:2;"> <ul><li><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-MediaWiki_message_delivery-20241118234000-The_Signpost:_18_November_2024"></span>News and notes: <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/2024-11-18/News_and_notes" title="Wikipedia:Wikipedia Signpost/2024-11-18/News and notes">Open letter to WMF about court case breaks one thousand signatures, big arb case declined, U4C begins accepting cases</a></li></ul> <ul><li>In the media: <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/2024-11-18/In_the_media" title="Wikipedia:Wikipedia Signpost/2024-11-18/In the media">Summons issued for Wikipedia editors by Indian court, "Gaza genocide" RfC close in news, old admin Gwern now big AI guy, and a "spectrum of reluctance" over Australian place names</a></li></ul> <ul><li>Recent research: <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/2024-11-18/Recent_research" title="Wikipedia:Wikipedia Signpost/2024-11-18/Recent research">SPINACH: AI help for asking Wikidata "challenging real-world questions"</a></li></ul> <ul><li>News from the WMF: <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/2024-11-18/News_from_the_WMF" title="Wikipedia:Wikipedia Signpost/2024-11-18/News from the WMF">Wikimedia Foundation and Wikimedia Endowment audit reports: FY 2023–2024</a></li></ul> <ul><li>Traffic report: <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/2024-11-18/Traffic_report" title="Wikipedia:Wikipedia Signpost/2024-11-18/Traffic report">Well, let us share with you our knowledge, about the electoral college</a> </li></ul></div> <div class="hlist" style="margin-top:10px; 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border: 1px solid #a2a9b1; background-color: #fdf2d5; padding: 0.5em; display: flex; align-items: center;"> <div class="ivmbox-image noresize" style="padding-left:1px; padding-right:0.5em;"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-MediaWiki_message_delivery-20241119002300-ArbCom_2024_Elections_voter_message"></span><span typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Scale_of_justice_2.svg" class="mw-file-description"><img src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/0e/Scale_of_justice_2.svg/40px-Scale_of_justice_2.svg.png" decoding="async" width="40" height="41" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/0e/Scale_of_justice_2.svg/60px-Scale_of_justice_2.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/0e/Scale_of_justice_2.svg/80px-Scale_of_justice_2.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="204" data-file-height="208"/></a></span></div> <div class="ivmbox-text"> <p>Hello! Voting in the <b><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:ACE2024" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:ACE2024">2024 Arbitration Committee elections</a></b> is now open until 23:59 (UTC) on Monday, 2 December 2024. All <b><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration_Committee_Elections_December_2024#Election_timeline" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration Committee Elections December 2024">eligible users</a></b> are allowed to vote. Users with alternate accounts may only vote once. </p><p>The <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:ARBCOM" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:ARBCOM">Arbitration Committee</a> is the panel of editors responsible for conducting the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration">Wikipedia arbitration process</a>. It has the authority to impose binding solutions to disputes between editors, primarily for serious conduct disputes the community has been unable to resolve. 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If you no longer wish to receive these messages, you may add <code>{{<a href="/wiki/Template:NoACEMM" class="mw-redirect" title="Template:NoACEMM">NoACEMM</a>}}</code> to your user talk page. <small><a href="/wiki/User:MediaWiki_message_delivery" title="User:MediaWiki message delivery">MediaWiki message delivery</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:MediaWiki_message_delivery" title="User talk:MediaWiki message delivery">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:3family6#c-MediaWiki_message_delivery-20241119002300-ArbCom_2024_Elections_voter_message" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:23, 19 November 2024 (UTC)</a></small><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-MediaWiki_message_delivery-20241119002300-ArbCom_2024_Elections_voter_message"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-MediaWiki_message_delivery-20241119002300-ArbCom_2024_Elections_voter_message"></span> </p> </div> </div> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Tooth_&_Nail_product_catalog" data-mw-thread-id="h-Tooth_&_Nail_product_catalog-20241120163800"><span id="Tooth_.26_Nail_product_catalog"></span><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Tooth_&_Nail_product_catalog-20241120163800"></span>Tooth & Nail product catalog<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Tooth_&_Nail_product_catalog-20241120163800"></span></h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Graywalls-20241120163800-Tooth_&_Nail_product_catalog"></span>I don't want to carry on an extensive one on one on the Afd but I am not understanding your ground for saying the list is notable. Something like the iPhone, the series of this product line is notable with a reliable source like this covering the line <a rel="nofollow" class="external free" href="https://www.computerworld.com/article/1622162/evolution-of-apple-iphone.html">https://www.computerworld.com/article/1622162/evolution-of-apple-iphone.html</a> however, what indication is there leading you to believe Tooth & Nails Discography is notable? <a href="/wiki/User:Graywalls" title="User:Graywalls">Graywalls</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Graywalls" title="User talk:Graywalls">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:3family6#c-Graywalls-20241120163800-Tooth_&_Nail_product_catalog" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:38, 20 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Graywalls-20241120163800-Tooth_&_Nail_product_catalog"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Graywalls-20241120163800-Tooth_&_Nail_product_catalog"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-3family6-20241120164100-Graywalls-20241120163800"></span>@<a href="/wiki/User:Graywalls" title="User:Graywalls">Graywalls</a> there are multiple, non-trivial discussions in reliable sources about the album output (style, quantity, significance) of the label. One could create an article about that topic "Output of Tooth & Nail records".--<a href="/wiki/User:3family6" title="User:3family6"><b style="color:navy">3family6</b></a> (<a class="mw-selflink selflink"><u style="color:black">Talk to me</u></a> | <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/3family6" title="Special:Contributions/3family6"><small style="color:purple">See what I have done</small></a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:3family6#c-3family6-20241120164100-Graywalls-20241120163800" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:41, 20 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-3family6-20241120164100-Graywalls-20241120163800"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-3family6-20241120164100-Graywalls-20241120163800"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-3family6-20241120164200-3family6-20241120164100"></span>basically, there is reliable source coverage about Tooth and Nail albums as a collective, similar to that Computer World article about iPhone generations.--<a href="/wiki/User:3family6" title="User:3family6"><b style="color:navy">3family6</b></a> (<a class="mw-selflink selflink"><u style="color:black">Talk to me</u></a> | <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/3family6" title="Special:Contributions/3family6"><small style="color:purple">See what I have done</small></a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:3family6#c-3family6-20241120164200-3family6-20241120164100" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:42, 20 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-3family6-20241120164200-3family6-20241120164100"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-3family6-20241120164200-3family6-20241120164100"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Graywalls-20241120190300-3family6-20241120164200"></span>This doesn't make sense to me. Are you saying that there's only sources for T&N as an organization? "there are reliable sources"... which are? <a href="/wiki/User:Graywalls" title="User:Graywalls">Graywalls</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Graywalls" title="User talk:Graywalls">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:3family6#c-Graywalls-20241120190300-3family6-20241120164200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:03, 20 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Graywalls-20241120190300-3family6-20241120164200"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Graywalls-20241120190300-3family6-20241120164200"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-3family6-20241120191500-Graywalls-20241120190300"></span>@<a href="/wiki/User:Graywalls" title="User:Graywalls">Graywalls</a> no, I'm saying that not only are there sources for the organization, but some of those sources discuss the organization's output as a collective. <a href="/wiki/User:3family6" title="User:3family6"><b style="color:navy">3family6</b></a> (<a class="mw-selflink selflink"><u style="color:black">Talk to me</u></a> | <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/3family6" title="Special:Contributions/3family6"><small style="color:purple">See what I have done</small></a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:3family6#c-3family6-20241120191500-Graywalls-20241120190300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:15, 20 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-3family6-20241120191500-Graywalls-20241120190300"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-3family6-20241120191500-Graywalls-20241120190300"></span></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-3family6-20241121102800-Graywalls-20241120190300"></span>@<a href="/wiki/User:Graywalls" title="User:Graywalls">Graywalls</a> by the way, regarding the Solid State deletion discussion, you are correct that NCORP applies to record labels. And it absolutely should.--<a href="/wiki/User:3family6" title="User:3family6"><b style="color:navy">3family6</b></a> (<a class="mw-selflink selflink"><u style="color:black">Talk to me</u></a> | <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/3family6" title="Special:Contributions/3family6"><small style="color:purple">See what I have done</small></a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:3family6#c-3family6-20241121102800-Graywalls-20241120190300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">10:28, 21 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-3family6-20241121102800-Graywalls-20241120190300"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-3family6-20241121102800-Graywalls-20241120190300"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="N_BAND_proposal" data-mw-thread-id="h-N_BAND_proposal-20241121212500"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-N_BAND_proposal-20241121212500"></span>N BAND proposal<span data-mw-comment-end="h-N_BAND_proposal-20241121212500"></span></h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Graywalls-20241121212500-N_BAND_proposal"></span>Hello, so I am getting a vibe that you don't want anyone else touching the proposal after I struck out two of the lines at <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Band_notability_proposal" title="Wikipedia:Band notability proposal">Wikipedia:Band notability proposal</a>. Is that a fair presentation? I'm not familiar with PROPOSALs but it's in the Wikipedia space rather than your personal user space, s I was of impression that anyone can work on it without anyone overruling anyone. <a href="/wiki/User:Graywalls" title="User:Graywalls">Graywalls</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Graywalls" title="User talk:Graywalls">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:3family6#c-Graywalls-20241121212500-N_BAND_proposal" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:25, 21 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Graywalls-20241121212500-N_BAND_proposal"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Graywalls-20241121212500-N_BAND_proposal"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-3family6-20241121214600-Graywalls-20241121212500"></span>@<a href="/wiki/User:Graywalls" title="User:Graywalls">Graywalls</a> I'm not very familiar with proposals but I don't think anyone should alter it because it's actively being discussed. I asked at the discussion page if I can go ahead with altering it if no vote has been taken, but no one has responded yet. So I'm just trying to be cautious and leave it untouched until it consensus is reached. <a href="/wiki/User:3family6" title="User:3family6"><b style="color:navy">3family6</b></a> (<a class="mw-selflink selflink"><u style="color:black">Talk to me</u></a> | <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/3family6" title="Special:Contributions/3family6"><small style="color:purple">See what I have done</small></a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:3family6#c-3family6-20241121214600-Graywalls-20241121212500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:46, 21 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-3family6-20241121214600-Graywalls-20241121212500"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-3family6-20241121214600-Graywalls-20241121212500"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Graywalls-20241121214800-3family6-20241121214600"></span>Then, why aren't you doing it in your user space? I STRONGLY object to the presence if item #5/#6 carried over from the existing text. <a href="/wiki/User:Graywalls" title="User:Graywalls">Graywalls</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Graywalls" title="User talk:Graywalls">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:3family6#c-Graywalls-20241121214800-3family6-20241121214600" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:48, 21 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Graywalls-20241121214800-3family6-20241121214600"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Graywalls-20241121214800-3family6-20241121214600"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-3family6-20241121215200-Graywalls-20241121214800"></span>@<a href="/wiki/User:Graywalls" title="User:Graywalls">Graywalls</a> because proposals are made in Wikipedia space. It's not a draft, it's a final proposal that I've submitted for discussion and vote. If you object to part of it, state that at the centralized discussion at Village pump (proposals) --<a href="/wiki/User:3family6" title="User:3family6"><b style="color:navy">3family6</b></a> (<a class="mw-selflink selflink"><u style="color:black">Talk to me</u></a> | <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/3family6" title="Special:Contributions/3family6"><small style="color:purple">See what I have done</small></a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:3family6#c-3family6-20241121215200-Graywalls-20241121214800" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:52, 21 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-3family6-20241121215200-Graywalls-20241121214800"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-3family6-20241121215200-Graywalls-20241121214800"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Graywalls-20241121215400-3family6-20241121215200"></span>It's just something you went forward with, on your own terms with the discussion still going. <a href="/wiki/User:Graywalls" title="User:Graywalls">Graywalls</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Graywalls" title="User talk:Graywalls">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:3family6#c-Graywalls-20241121215400-3family6-20241121215200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:54, 21 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Graywalls-20241121215400-3family6-20241121215200"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Graywalls-20241121215400-3family6-20241121215200"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-3family6-20241121220000-Graywalls-20241121215400"></span>@<a href="/wiki/User:Graywalls" title="User:Graywalls">Graywalls</a> no, the discussion is of the proposal I created. I suggest you read about how proposals are done, I followed that process. I did skip the drafting and feedback stage, which was perhaps not the best idea. If this one fails, you're welcome to propose another.--<a href="/wiki/User:3family6" title="User:3family6"><b style="color:navy">3family6</b></a> (<a class="mw-selflink selflink"><u style="color:black">Talk to me</u></a> | <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/3family6" title="Special:Contributions/3family6"><small style="color:purple">See what I have done</small></a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:3family6#c-3family6-20241121220000-Graywalls-20241121215400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:00, 21 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-3family6-20241121220000-Graywalls-20241121215400"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-3family6-20241121220000-Graywalls-20241121215400"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Graywalls-20241121220100-3family6-20241121220000"></span>I am looking at other proposals where multiple editors have worked on it. I'm just questioning whether you can keep others from editing it. <a href="/wiki/User:Graywalls" title="User:Graywalls">Graywalls</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Graywalls" title="User talk:Graywalls">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:3family6#c-Graywalls-20241121220100-3family6-20241121220000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:01, 21 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Graywalls-20241121220100-3family6-20241121220000"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Graywalls-20241121220100-3family6-20241121220000"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-3family6-20241121220300-Graywalls-20241121220100"></span>@<a href="/wiki/User:Graywalls" title="User:Graywalls">Graywalls</a> I don't know. My concern is that if it's edited after people have voted, then there could be complaints that this is not actually what they supported.<a href="/wiki/User:3family6" title="User:3family6"><b style="color:navy">3family6</b></a> (<a class="mw-selflink selflink"><u style="color:black">Talk to me</u></a> | <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/3family6" title="Special:Contributions/3family6"><small style="color:purple">See what I have done</small></a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:3family6#c-3family6-20241121220300-Graywalls-20241121220100" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:03, 21 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-3family6-20241121220300-Graywalls-20241121220100"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-3family6-20241121220300-Graywalls-20241121220100"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Schaliach" data-mw-thread-id="h-Schaliach-20241125133700"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Schaliach-20241125133700"></span>Schaliach<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Schaliach-20241125133700"></span></h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Graywalls-20241125133700-Schaliach"></span>So, it does not show in talk page log, but when you look in the page log, it shows that it was closed alongside another AfD, then a re-direct was created, and you converted the re-direct into a page. So, given the deletion history may I suggest you try to submit the page through Article for Creation process? See: <a class="external free" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Log&page=Schaliach">https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Log&page=Schaliach</a> <a href="/wiki/User:Graywalls" title="User:Graywalls">Graywalls</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Graywalls" title="User talk:Graywalls">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:3family6#c-Graywalls-20241125133700-Schaliach" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">13:37, 25 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Graywalls-20241125133700-Schaliach"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Graywalls-20241125133700-Schaliach"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-3family6-20241125133800-Graywalls-20241125133700"></span>AfC is not required. I re-built the article from scratch. Since what was essentially a PROD was contested, challenge the article via the deletion process. Notability is demonstrated.--<a href="/wiki/User:3family6" title="User:3family6"><b style="color:navy">3family6</b></a> (<a class="mw-selflink selflink"><u style="color:black">Talk to me</u></a> | <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/3family6" title="Special:Contributions/3family6"><small style="color:purple">See what I have done</small></a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:3family6#c-3family6-20241125133800-Graywalls-20241125133700" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">13:38, 25 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-3family6-20241125133800-Graywalls-20241125133700"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-3family6-20241125133800-Graywalls-20241125133700"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-3family6-20241125134000-3family6-20241125133800"></span>Note that that was a deletion discussion of Fleshkiller, not the Schaliach article as it stands.--<a href="/wiki/User:3family6" title="User:3family6"><b style="color:navy">3family6</b></a> (<a class="mw-selflink selflink"><u style="color:black">Talk to me</u></a> | <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/3family6" title="Special:Contributions/3family6"><small style="color:purple">See what I have done</small></a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:3family6#c-3family6-20241125134000-3family6-20241125133800" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">13:40, 25 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-3family6-20241125134000-3family6-20241125133800"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-3family6-20241125134000-3family6-20241125133800"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Graywalls-20241125135000-3family6-20241125134000"></span>That's the page log for <a href="/wiki/Schaliach" title="Schaliach">Schaliach</a>. So why was it deleted? <a href="/wiki/User:Graywalls" title="User:Graywalls">Graywalls</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Graywalls" title="User talk:Graywalls">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:3family6#c-Graywalls-20241125135000-3family6-20241125134000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">13:50, 25 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Graywalls-20241125135000-3family6-20241125134000"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Graywalls-20241125135000-3family6-20241125134000"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-3family6-20241125140300-Graywalls-20241125135000"></span>I don't know. But, the article now is a complete re-build by myself. It was not created by Metalwork14.--<a href="/wiki/User:3family6" title="User:3family6"><b style="color:navy">3family6</b></a> (<a class="mw-selflink selflink"><u style="color:black">Talk to me</u></a> | <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/3family6" title="Special:Contributions/3family6"><small style="color:purple">See what I have done</small></a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:3family6#c-3family6-20241125140300-Graywalls-20241125135000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">14:03, 25 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-3family6-20241125140300-Graywalls-20241125135000"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-3family6-20241125140300-Graywalls-20241125135000"></span></dd></dl></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-3family6-20241125140600-3family6-20241125134000"></span>Also, the consensus was that Fleshiller <i>at the time</i> was not notable. It certainly was not <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:SALT" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:SALT">salted</a> or anything close to that.--<a href="/wiki/User:3family6" title="User:3family6"><b style="color:navy">3family6</b></a> (<a class="mw-selflink selflink"><u style="color:black">Talk to me</u></a> | <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/3family6" title="Special:Contributions/3family6"><small style="color:purple">See what I have done</small></a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:3family6#c-3family6-20241125140600-3family6-20241125134000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">14:06, 25 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-3family6-20241125140600-3family6-20241125134000"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-3family6-20241125140600-3family6-20241125134000"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-3family6-20241125134200-Graywalls-20241125133700"></span>AfC says "Established users are encouraged to create articles on their own if they do not need support from reviewers." I've been an active editor on here for 14 years and have created hundreds of articles and have brought an article up to FA status. Respectfully, I think your prejudice against Metalworker14 (which is valid) is clouding your judgment here.--<a href="/wiki/User:3family6" title="User:3family6"><b style="color:navy">3family6</b></a> (<a class="mw-selflink selflink"><u style="color:black">Talk to me</u></a> | <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/3family6" title="Special:Contributions/3family6"><small style="color:purple">See what I have done</small></a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:3family6#c-3family6-20241125134200-Graywalls-20241125133700" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">13:42, 25 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-3family6-20241125134200-Graywalls-20241125133700"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-3family6-20241125134200-Graywalls-20241125133700"></span></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-3family6-20241125135000-Graywalls-20241125133700"></span>You do realize that I was the first person to comment on that AfD, and recommended deleting Fleshkiller at that time? Do your due diligence and properly read through those discussions and ALSO check for sources. That's basic AfD etiquette.--<a href="/wiki/User:3family6" title="User:3family6"><b style="color:navy">3family6</b></a> (<a class="mw-selflink selflink"><u style="color:black">Talk to me</u></a> | <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/3family6" title="Special:Contributions/3family6"><small style="color:purple">See what I have done</small></a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:3family6#c-3family6-20241125135000-Graywalls-20241125133700" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">13:50, 25 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-3family6-20241125135000-Graywalls-20241125133700"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-3family6-20241125135000-Graywalls-20241125133700"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Graywalls-20241125140700-3family6-20241125135000"></span>Before you make assumptions about my judgment being clouded by who created the article, look at the supposedly "created from scratch" article. Just as a starter, it contained sourcing to a freaking <i>personal website</i>. Also, there's telltale sign of notability bombing, like has been compared with big name, another big name, yet another big name... by borderline internet fanzine from the early 2000s/late 90s when simply being a printed publication was an indication of something. So those things were taken into account of doubtful notability. <a href="/wiki/User:Graywalls" title="User:Graywalls">Graywalls</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Graywalls" title="User talk:Graywalls">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:3family6#c-Graywalls-20241125140700-3family6-20241125135000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">14:07, 25 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Graywalls-20241125140700-3family6-20241125135000"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Graywalls-20241125140700-3family6-20241125135000"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-3family6-20241125141700-Graywalls-20241125140700"></span>The "a freaking <i>personal website</i>" is by a professional music journalist, and is mentioned multiple reliable sources including an academic book. And that's one source.--<a href="/wiki/User:3family6" title="User:3family6"><b style="color:navy">3family6</b></a> (<a class="mw-selflink selflink"><u style="color:black">Talk to me</u></a> | <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/3family6" title="Special:Contributions/3family6"><small style="color:purple">See what I have done</small></a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:3family6#c-3family6-20241125141700-Graywalls-20241125140700" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">14:17, 25 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-3family6-20241125141700-Graywalls-20241125140700"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-3family6-20241125141700-Graywalls-20241125140700"></span></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-3family6-20241125141800-Graywalls-20241125140700"></span>The names mentioned are the sonic comparisons, they aren't name-dropping.--<a href="/wiki/User:3family6" title="User:3family6"><b style="color:navy">3family6</b></a> (<a class="mw-selflink selflink"><u style="color:black">Talk to me</u></a> | <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/3family6" title="Special:Contributions/3family6"><small style="color:purple">See what I have done</small></a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:3family6#c-3family6-20241125141800-Graywalls-20241125140700" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">14:18, 25 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-3family6-20241125141800-Graywalls-20241125140700"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-3family6-20241125141800-Graywalls-20241125140700"></span></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-3family6-20241125142000-Graywalls-20241125140700"></span>@<a href="/wiki/User:Graywalls" title="User:Graywalls">Graywalls</a> I created the article, you know you can just ask me about these things, right?--<a href="/wiki/User:3family6" title="User:3family6"><b style="color:navy">3family6</b></a> (<a class="mw-selflink selflink"><u style="color:black">Talk to me</u></a> | <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/3family6" title="Special:Contributions/3family6"><small style="color:purple">See what I have done</small></a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:3family6#c-3family6-20241125142000-Graywalls-20241125140700" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">14:20, 25 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-3family6-20241125142000-Graywalls-20241125140700"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-3family6-20241125142000-Graywalls-20241125140700"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Phantom_Tollbooth_source" data-mw-thread-id="h-Phantom_Tollbooth_source-20241128031200"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Phantom_Tollbooth_source-20241128031200"></span>Phantom Tollbooth source<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Phantom_Tollbooth_source-20241128031200"></span></h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Toa_Nidhiki05-20241128031200-Phantom_Tollbooth_source"></span>Hey, just picking your brain on this - what are your thoughts on The Phantom Tollbooth as a source? I'm reworking an article that uses it as a source (<i><a href="/wiki/Conspiracy_No._5" title="Conspiracy No. 5">Conspiracy No. 5</a></i>), but frankly I'm not sure it passes muster from an editorial standpoint. Take a look at it here - <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20160304075143/http://www.tollbooth.org/mini/thirday2.html">three reviews</a>, and it seems kinda amateurish. Today it just seems like a blog. Is there a cutoff point for reliability? <b><a href="/wiki/User:Toa_Nidhiki05" title="User:Toa Nidhiki05"><i style="color: green; font-family: Mistral;">Toa</i></a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Toa_Nidhiki05" title="User talk:Toa Nidhiki05"><i style="color: green; font-family: Mistral;">Nidhiki05</i></a></b> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:3family6#c-Toa_Nidhiki05-20241128031200-Phantom_Tollbooth_source" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">03:12, 28 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Toa_Nidhiki05-20241128031200-Phantom_Tollbooth_source"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Toa_Nidhiki05-20241128031200-Phantom_Tollbooth_source"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-3family6-20241128033200-Toa_Nidhiki05-20241128031200"></span>@<a href="/wiki/User:Toa_Nidhiki05" title="User:Toa Nidhiki05">Toa Nidhiki05</a> this one I've presumed was reliable because it was listed at the Christian music sources before I was active as an editor, over 14 years ago. Functionally I don't see how it's any different from other sites deemed reliable, as it had a site operator and joint editorial staff with other people underneath. I was thinking today about how I don't think I've ever actually looked into use by others of this source. But I don't see a reason to automatically reject it. I guess it's a question of do you think that these reviews are going to improve the article at all?--<a href="/wiki/User:3family6" title="User:3family6"><b style="color:navy">3family6</b></a> (<a class="mw-selflink selflink"><u style="color:black">Talk to me</u></a> | <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/3family6" title="Special:Contributions/3family6"><small style="color:purple">See what I have done</small></a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:3family6#c-3family6-20241128033200-Toa_Nidhiki05-20241128031200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">03:32, 28 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-3family6-20241128033200-Toa_Nidhiki05-20241128031200"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-3family6-20241128033200-Toa_Nidhiki05-20241128031200"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Toa_Nidhiki05-20241128033700-3family6-20241128033200"></span>Fair enough! I don't think I'll be using it in the improved article - the reviews don't add much here, aside from emphasizing how much they think Mac Powell sounds like Eddie Vedder and Third Day sounds like Pearl Jam - but I looked in archive and they did have some decently impressive interviews. Just curious, since I've never actually used it for anything and rarely seen it ever used. <b><a href="/wiki/User:Toa_Nidhiki05" title="User:Toa Nidhiki05"><i style="color: green; font-family: Mistral;">Toa</i></a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Toa_Nidhiki05" title="User talk:Toa Nidhiki05"><i style="color: green; font-family: Mistral;">Nidhiki05</i></a></b> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:3family6#c-Toa_Nidhiki05-20241128033700-3family6-20241128033200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">03:37, 28 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Toa_Nidhiki05-20241128033700-3family6-20241128033200"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Toa_Nidhiki05-20241128033700-3family6-20241128033200"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-3family6-20241128034900-Toa_Nidhiki05-20241128033700"></span>@<a href="/wiki/User:Toa_Nidhiki05" title="User:Toa Nidhiki05">Toa Nidhiki05</a> "and rarely seen it ever used" - you don't read my articles, then, lol (I don't mind) <a href="/wiki/User:3family6" title="User:3family6"><b style="color:navy">3family6</b></a> (<a class="mw-selflink selflink"><u style="color:black">Talk to me</u></a> | <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/3family6" title="Special:Contributions/3family6"><small style="color:purple">See what I have done</small></a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:3family6#c-3family6-20241128034900-Toa_Nidhiki05-20241128033700" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">03:49, 28 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-3family6-20241128034900-Toa_Nidhiki05-20241128033700"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-3family6-20241128034900-Toa_Nidhiki05-20241128033700"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></div><noscript><img src="https://login.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:CentralAutoLogin/start?type=1x1&useformat=desktop" alt="" width="1" height="1" style="border: none; position: absolute;"></noscript> <div class="printfooter" data-nosnippet="">Retrieved from "<a dir="ltr" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:3family6&oldid=1259979492">https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:3family6&oldid=1259979492</a>"</div></div> <div id="catlinks" class="catlinks catlinks-allhidden" data-mw="interface"></div> </div> </main> </div> <div class="mw-footer-container"> <footer id="footer" class="mw-footer" > <ul id="footer-info"> <li id="footer-info-lastmod"> This page was last edited on 28 November 2024, at 03:49<span class="anonymous-show"> (UTC)</span>.</li> <li id="footer-info-copyright"><span class="nowraplinks">This version of the page has been <a href="/wiki/Help:Page_history" title="Help:Page history">revised</a>. 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