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class="vector-toc-text"> 9 pagename breakage in Module:headword </div> </a> 2 comments <ul id="toc-pagename_breakage_in_Module:headword-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Yo,_why'd_you_do_this_revert?" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Yo,_why'd_you_do_this_revert?"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 10 Yo, why'd you do this revert? </div> </a> 7 comments <ul id="toc-Yo,_why'd_you_do_this_revert?-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-In_case_you_haven't_noticed" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#In_case_you_haven't_noticed"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 11 In case you haven't noticed </div> </a> 4 comments <ul id="toc-In_case_you_haven't_noticed-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-[Untitled]" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#[Untitled]"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 12 [Untitled] </div> </a> 4 comments <ul id="toc-[Untitled]-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-ᠬᠥᠭᠵᠢᠮ" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#ᠬᠥᠭᠵᠢᠮ"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 13 ᠬᠥᠭᠵᠢᠮ </div> </a> 5 comments <ul id="toc-ᠬᠥᠭᠵᠢᠮ-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-(mock-)Persian_σάτρα" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#(mock-)Persian_σάτρα"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 14 (mock-)Persian σάτρα </div> </a> 4 comments <ul id="toc-(mock-)Persian_σάτρα-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-changelog_messages" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#changelog_messages"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 15 changelog messages </div> </a> 2 comments <ul id="toc-changelog_messages-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-'terms_with_audio_links'" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#'terms_with_audio_links'"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 16 'terms with audio links' </div> </a> 2 comments <ul id="toc-'terms_with_audio_links'-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Shit" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Shit"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 17 Shit </div> </a> 14 comments <ul id="toc-Shit-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-"you_already_know_that_we_don't_do_hard_redirects_in_mainspace"" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#"you_already_know_that_we_don't_do_hard_redirects_in_mainspace""> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 18 "you already know that we don't do hard redirects in mainspace" </div> </a> 5 comments <ul id="toc-"you_already_know_that_we_don't_do_hard_redirects_in_mainspace"-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Breath_of_Fresh_Air" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Breath_of_Fresh_Air"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 19 Breath of Fresh Air </div> </a> 1 comment <ul id="toc-Breath_of_Fresh_Air-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Template_talk:ja-pron#Add_DJR4" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Template_talk:ja-pron#Add_DJR4"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 20 Template talk:ja-pron#Add DJR4 </div> </a> 3 comments <ul id="toc-Template_talk:ja-pron#Add_DJR4-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Invalid_params_in_call_to_Template:cite-book:_tr=;_nocat=;_termlang=;_subst=;_journal=" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Invalid_params_in_call_to_Template:cite-book:_tr=;_nocat=;_termlang=;_subst=;_journal="> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 21 Invalid params in call to Template:cite-book: tr=; nocat=; termlang=; subst=; journal= </div> </a> 4 comments <ul id="toc-Invalid_params_in_call_to_Template:cite-book:_tr=;_nocat=;_termlang=;_subst=;_journal=-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Orthography_invented_for_Wikt?" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Orthography_invented_for_Wikt?"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 22 Orthography invented for Wikt? </div> </a> 6 comments <ul id="toc-Orthography_invented_for_Wikt?-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-"Use_your_brain"" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#"Use_your_brain""> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 23 "Use your brain" </div> </a> 1 comment <ul id="toc-"Use_your_brain"-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Module_timeouts_at_噫" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Module_timeouts_at_噫"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 24 Module timeouts at 噫 </div> </a> 3 comments <ul id="toc-Module_timeouts_at_噫-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-"you_couldn't_even_be_bothered_to_correct_the_lowercase_form"" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#"you_couldn't_even_be_bothered_to_correct_the_lowercase_form""> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 25 "you couldn't even be bothered to correct the lowercase form" </div> </a> 1 comment <ul id="toc-"you_couldn't_even_be_bothered_to_correct_the_lowercase_form"-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-template_parser_error" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#template_parser_error"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 26 template parser error </div> </a> 2 comments <ul id="toc-template_parser_error-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Lua_errors" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Lua_errors"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 27 Lua errors </div> </a> 2 comments <ul id="toc-Lua_errors-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Template_parser_errors" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Template_parser_errors"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 28 Template parser errors </div> </a> 2 comments <ul id="toc-Template_parser_errors-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-ancestor_vs._parent_terminology" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#ancestor_vs._parent_terminology"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 29 ancestor vs. parent terminology </div> </a> 8 comments <ul id="toc-ancestor_vs._parent_terminology-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Template_parser_fails_in_CAT:E" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Template_parser_fails_in_CAT:E"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 30 Template parser fails in CAT:E </div> </a> 3 comments <ul id="toc-Template_parser_fails_in_CAT:E-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-bug_in_Module:string" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#bug_in_Module:string"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 31 bug in Module:string </div> </a> 3 comments <ul id="toc-bug_in_Module:string-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-recent_breakages" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#recent_breakages"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 32 recent breakages </div> </a> 8 comments <ul id="toc-recent_breakages-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Thanks_for_the_help" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Thanks_for_the_help"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 33 Thanks for the help </div> </a> 2 comments <ul id="toc-Thanks_for_the_help-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-affix_breakage" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#affix_breakage"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 34 affix breakage </div> </a> 2 comments <ul id="toc-affix_breakage-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-your_snarky_comments" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#your_snarky_comments"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 35 your snarky comments </div> </a> 14 comments <ul id="toc-your_snarky_comments-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-strange_transclusions" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#strange_transclusions"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 36 strange transclusions </div> </a> 5 comments <ul id="toc-strange_transclusions-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-I" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#I"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 37 I </div> </a> 7 comments <ul id="toc-I-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-old_lombard" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#old_lombard"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 38 old lombard </div> </a> 1 comment <ul id="toc-old_lombard-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-◌͛" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#◌͛"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 39 ◌͛ </div> </a> 1 comment <ul id="toc-◌͛-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Edit_summary_on_don't_tread_on_me" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Edit_summary_on_don't_tread_on_me"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 40 Edit summary on don't tread on me </div> </a> 22 comments <button aria-controls="toc-Edit_summary_on_don't_tread_on_me-sublist" class="cdx-button cdx-button--weight-quiet cdx-button--icon-only vector-toc-toggle"> Toggle Edit summary on don't tread on me subsection </button> <ul id="toc-Edit_summary_on_don't_tread_on_me-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> <li id="toc-hot_dog_too?" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-2"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#hot_dog_too?"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 40.1 hot dog too? </div> </a> <ul id="toc-hot_dog_too?-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Stalking/harassment,_again" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Stalking/harassment,_again"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 41 Stalking/harassment, again </div> </a> 11 comments <ul id="toc-Stalking/harassment,_again-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-WhatLinksHere_Weirdness" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#WhatLinksHere_Weirdness"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 42 WhatLinksHere Weirdness </div> </a> 3 comments <ul id="toc-WhatLinksHere_Weirdness-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Enabling_"oftext"_parameter_for_{{doublet}}" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Enabling_"oftext"_parameter_for_{{doublet}}"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 43 Enabling "oftext" parameter for {{doublet}} </div> </a> 4 comments <ul id="toc-Enabling_"oftext"_parameter_for_{{doublet}}-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Etymology_of_derogatory_terms" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Etymology_of_derogatory_terms"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 44 Etymology of derogatory terms </div> </a> 4 comments <ul id="toc-Etymology_of_derogatory_terms-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-questions_about_aliases_of_parameters_with_special_properties" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#questions_about_aliases_of_parameters_with_special_properties"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 45 questions about aliases of parameters with special properties </div> </a> 3 comments <ul id="toc-questions_about_aliases_of_parameters_with_special_properties-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-usage_notes" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#usage_notes"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 46 usage notes </div> </a> 3 comments <ul id="toc-usage_notes-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Why_removed_templates?" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Why_removed_templates?"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 47 Why removed templates? </div> </a> 2 comments <ul id="toc-Why_removed_templates?-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Add_NKD2" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Add_NKD2"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 48 Add NKD2 </div> </a> 3 comments <ul id="toc-Add_NKD2-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Luftgeschaeft's_Pronounciation" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Luftgeschaeft's_Pronounciation"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 49 Luftgeschaeft's Pronounciation </div> </a> 1 comment <ul id="toc-Luftgeschaeft's_Pronounciation-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Asaf's_Pronounciation" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Asaf's_Pronounciation"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 50 Asaf's Pronounciation </div> </a> 1 comment <ul id="toc-Asaf's_Pronounciation-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-defaulting_`etym_lang_=_true`_in_Module:parameters?" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#defaulting_`etym_lang_=_true`_in_Module:parameters?"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 51 defaulting `etym_lang = true` in Module:parameters? </div> </a> 10 comments <ul id="toc-defaulting_`etym_lang_=_true`_in_Module:parameters?-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Template:kangxi-ws" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Template:kangxi-ws"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 52 Template:kangxi-ws </div> </a> 4 comments <ul id="toc-Template:kangxi-ws-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Odd_module_error_at_軍" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Odd_module_error_at_軍"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 53 Odd module error at 軍 </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Odd_module_error_at_軍-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-bad_deletion_of_fight_city_hall" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#bad_deletion_of_fight_city_hall"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 54 bad deletion of fight city hall </div> </a> 34 comments <button aria-controls="toc-bad_deletion_of_fight_city_hall-sublist" class="cdx-button cdx-button--weight-quiet cdx-button--icon-only vector-toc-toggle"> Toggle bad deletion of fight city hall subsection </button> <ul id="toc-bad_deletion_of_fight_city_hall-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> <li id="toc-busted_my_neck" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-2"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#busted_my_neck"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 54.1 busted my neck </div> </a> <ul id="toc-busted_my_neck-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Japanese_errors" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Japanese_errors"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 55 Japanese errors </div> </a> 24 comments <ul id="toc-Japanese_errors-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Edit_request" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Edit_request"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 56 Edit request </div> </a> 4 comments <ul id="toc-Edit_request-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Japanese_errors_and_categories_again" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Japanese_errors_and_categories_again"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 57 Japanese errors and categories again </div> </a> 12 comments <ul id="toc-Japanese_errors_and_categories_again-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Do_not_ever_restore_personal_attacks,_for_any_reason" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Do_not_ever_restore_personal_attacks,_for_any_reason"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 58 Do not ever restore personal attacks, for any reason </div> </a> 3 comments <ul id="toc-Do_not_ever_restore_personal_attacks,_for_any_reason-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Emptying_category" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Emptying_category"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 59 Emptying category </div> </a> 4 comments <ul id="toc-Emptying_category-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-CJKV_transclusion_fun" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#CJKV_transclusion_fun"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 60 CJKV transclusion fun </div> </a> 1 comment <ul id="toc-CJKV_transclusion_fun-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Vandal" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Vandal"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 61 Vandal </div> </a> 1 comment <ul id="toc-Vandal-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Hindustani" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Hindustani"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 62 Hindustani </div> </a> 4 comments <ul id="toc-Hindustani-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-"Terms_spelled_with"_categories" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#"Terms_spelled_with"_categories"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 63 "Terms spelled with" categories </div> </a> 2 comments <ul id="toc-"Terms_spelled_with"_categories-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Template_internals_showing_in_module_error_from_Module:category_tree/poscatboiler/data/lang-specific/jpx" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Template_internals_showing_in_module_error_from_Module:category_tree/poscatboiler/data/lang-specific/jpx"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 64 Template internals showing in module error from Module:category tree/poscatboiler/data/lang-specific/jpx </div> </a> 2 comments <ul id="toc-Template_internals_showing_in_module_error_from_Module:category_tree/poscatboiler/data/lang-specific/jpx-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-redirects" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#redirects"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 65 redirects </div> </a> 1 comment <ul id="toc-redirects-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Reconstruction:Latin/ranceo" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Reconstruction:Latin/ranceo"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 66 Reconstruction:Latin/ranceo </div> </a> 2 comments <ul id="toc-Reconstruction:Latin/ranceo-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-送り仮名" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#送り仮名"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 67 送り仮名 </div> </a> 2 comments <ul id="toc-送り仮名-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Why've_you_removed_the_prononciation_/ɛː/_for_the_SQUARE_vowel?" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Why've_you_removed_the_prononciation_/ɛː/_for_the_SQUARE_vowel?"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 68 Why've you removed the prononciation /ɛː/ for the SQUARE vowel? </div> </a> 2 comments <ul id="toc-Why've_you_removed_the_prononciation_/ɛː/_for_the_SQUARE_vowel?-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-rfap_bugfix_bugfix" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#rfap_bugfix_bugfix"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 69 rfap bugfix bugfix </div> </a> 2 comments <ul id="toc-rfap_bugfix_bugfix-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Error_thrown_but_probably_okay" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Error_thrown_but_probably_okay"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 70 Error thrown but probably okay </div> </a> 4 comments <ul id="toc-Error_thrown_but_probably_okay-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Romanization_of_炎（ほのお）" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Romanization_of_炎（ほのお）"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 71 Romanization of 炎（ほのお） </div> </a> 37 comments <ul id="toc-Romanization_of_炎（ほのお）-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-ζώω" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#ζώω"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 72 ζώω </div> </a> 1 comment <ul id="toc-ζώω-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-"not_comparable"" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#"not_comparable""> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 73 "not comparable" </div> </a> 8 comments <ul id="toc-"not_comparable"-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-CAT:E_again" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#CAT:E_again"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 74 CAT:E again </div> </a> 4 comments <ul id="toc-CAT:E_again-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-warnings" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#warnings"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 75 warnings </div> </a> 26 comments <ul id="toc-warnings-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Proposal_for_Module:Unicode_data" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Proposal_for_Module:Unicode_data"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 76 Proposal for Module:Unicode data </div> </a> 2 comments <ul id="toc-Proposal_for_Module:Unicode_data-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-"丟那媽"_is_a_euphemistic_misspelling?" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#"丟那媽"_is_a_euphemistic_misspelling?"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 77 "丟那媽" is a euphemistic misspelling? </div> </a> 3 comments <ul id="toc-"丟那媽"_is_a_euphemistic_misspelling?-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-"Japanese_terms_spelled_with"_Category" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#"Japanese_terms_spelled_with"_Category"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 78 "Japanese terms spelled with" Category </div> </a> 2 comments <ul id="toc-"Japanese_terms_spelled_with"_Category-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-cigarette" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#cigarette"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 79 cigarette </div> </a> 3 comments <ul id="toc-cigarette-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-transclude_bug?_(already_fixed)" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#transclude_bug?_(already_fixed)"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 80 transclude bug? 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href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Theknightwho&action=edit&section=1" title="Edit section: Archives">edit</a>]</div> <ul><li><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho/2021" title="User talk:Theknightwho/2021">2021</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho/2022" title="User talk:Theknightwho/2022">2022</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho/2023" title="User talk:Theknightwho/2023">2023</a></li></ul> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="huh?" data-mw-thread-id="h-huh?-20240106232400">huh?</h2>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Theknightwho&action=edit&section=2" title="Edit section: huh?">edit</a>]<div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata">Latest comment: <a href="#c-Theknightwho-20240107002700-Kwamikagami-20240107002100">10 months ago</a>6 comments2 people in discussion</div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> You wrote, "you put this in the wrong section, and isn't the first I've seen. Please go through and correct these." I have no idea what you're talking about. It looks like you moved it to the wrong section. <a href="/wiki/User:Kwamikagami" title="User:Kwamikagami">kwami</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Kwamikagami" title="User talk:Kwamikagami">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Kwamikagami-20240106232400-huh?" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:24, 6 January 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-1" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:Kwamikagami" title="User:Kwamikagami">Kwamikagami</a> The template for Ewe letters should go in the Ewe section, not at the bottom of the page. <a href="/wiki/User:Theknightwho" title="User:Theknightwho">Theknightwho</a> (<a class="mw-selflink selflink">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Theknightwho-20240106232600-Kwamikagami-20240106232400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:26, 6 January 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-2" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>Ah, I see. Yes, that was an oversight when I added a section after Ewe. <a href="/wiki/User:Kwamikagami" title="User:Kwamikagami">kwami</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Kwamikagami" title="User talk:Kwamikagami">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Kwamikagami-20240106234600-Theknightwho-20240106232600" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:46, 6 January 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-3" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:Kwamikagami" title="User:Kwamikagami">Kwamikagami</a> I’ve noticed it on quite a lot of these single-character entries you (re)organised, which is why I mentioned it. <a href="/wiki/User:Theknightwho" title="User:Theknightwho">Theknightwho</a> (<a class="mw-selflink selflink">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Theknightwho-20240107001800-Kwamikagami-20240106234600" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:18, 7 January 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-4" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>Sorry about that. When they appeared at the bottom of a page, I must've dismissed them as the kind of generic info that normally belongs there, not noticing that they were language specific. <a href="/wiki/User:Kwamikagami" title="User:Kwamikagami">kwami</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Kwamikagami" title="User talk:Kwamikagami">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Kwamikagami-20240107002100-Theknightwho-20240107001800" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:21, 7 January 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-5" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:Kwamikagami" title="User:Kwamikagami">Kwamikagami</a> It's okay. They display the alphabet for the language, though it gets a bit silly when there are a bunch of languages that only define it as a letter (as opposed to (e.g.) <a href="/wiki/a" title="a">a</a> which has lots of other senses as well). <a href="/wiki/User:Theknightwho" title="User:Theknightwho">Theknightwho</a> (<a class="mw-selflink selflink">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Theknightwho-20240107002700-Kwamikagami-20240107002100" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:27, 7 January 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-6" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Wiktionary:Grease_pit/2022/September" data-mw-thread-id="h-Wiktionary:Grease_pit/2022/September-20240108045200"><a href="/wiki/Wiktionary:Grease_pit/2022/September" title="Wiktionary:Grease pit/2022/September">Wiktionary:Grease pit/2022/September</a></h2>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Theknightwho&action=edit&section=3" title="Edit section: Wiktionary:Grease pit/2022/September">edit</a>]<div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata">Latest comment: <a href="#c-Theknightwho-20240110215700-Chuck_Entz-20240108045200">10 months ago</a>2 comments2 people in discussion</div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> It took about eight hundred null edits, but <a href="/wiki/Category:E" class="mw-redirect" title="Category:E">CAT:E</a> is now down to just this one- which is due to your deleting a sandbox module. <a href="/wiki/User:Chuck_Entz" title="User:Chuck Entz">Chuck Entz</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Chuck_Entz" title="User talk:Chuck Entz">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Chuck_Entz-20240108045200-Wiktionary:Grease_pit/2022/September" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">04:52, 8 January 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-7" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:Chuck_Entz" title="User:Chuck Entz">Chuck Entz</a> Thanks - my bad. I've commented it out. Given sandbox modules are inherently unstable, I imagine this was always going to break at some point. <a href="/wiki/User:Theknightwho" title="User:Theknightwho">Theknightwho</a> (<a class="mw-selflink selflink">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Theknightwho-20240110215700-Chuck_Entz-20240108045200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:57, 10 January 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-8" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="RC:Proto-Celtic/sexskā" data-mw-thread-id="h-RC:Proto-Celtic/sexskā-20240111181100"><a href="/wiki/Reconstruction:Proto-Celtic/sexsk%C4%81" title="Reconstruction:Proto-Celtic/sexskā">RC:Proto-Celtic/sexskā</a></h2>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Theknightwho&action=edit&section=4" title="Edit section: RC:Proto-Celtic/sexskā">edit</a>]<div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata">Latest comment: <a href="#c-Theknightwho-20240111184400-Sokkjo-20240111181100">10 months ago</a>2 comments2 people in discussion</div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> Why are you <a class="external text" href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/?diff=77605651&oldid=77605338">reverting</a> <a href="/wiki/Reconstruction:Proto-Celtic/sexsk%C4%81" title="Reconstruction:Proto-Celtic/sexskā">RC:Proto-Celtic/sexskā</a>? This is the standard header usage as stipulated in <a href="/wiki/Wiktionary:ORDER" class="mw-redirect" title="Wiktionary:ORDER">WT:ORDER</a>. -- <a href="/wiki/User:Sokkjo" class="mw-redirect" title="User:Sokkjo">Sokkjō</a> <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Sokkjo-20240111181100-RC:Proto-Celtic/sexskā" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:11, 11 January 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-9" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:Sokkjo" class="mw-redirect" title="User:Sokkjo">Sokkjo</a> Because you made the <a class="external text" href="https://en.wiktionary.org/w/index.php?title=Reconstruction:Proto-Italic/parez%C4%81&diff=prev&oldid=77605332">opposite revert</a> just before, and I wasn't aware that "alternative forms" and "alternative reconstructions" are supposed to be treated differently, which just seems like an oversight. <a href="/wiki/User:Theknightwho" title="User:Theknightwho">Theknightwho</a> (<a class="mw-selflink selflink">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Theknightwho-20240111184400-Sokkjo-20240111181100" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:44, 11 January 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-10" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Removing_transliteration_from_reference_templates" data-mw-thread-id="h-Removing_transliteration_from_reference_templates-20240119021600">Removing transliteration from reference templates</h2>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Theknightwho&action=edit&section=5" title="Edit section: Removing transliteration from reference templates">edit</a>]<div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata">Latest comment: <a href="#c-Theknightwho-20240119033900-Atitarev-20240119032700">10 months ago</a>11 comments3 people in discussion</div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> Hi, I disagree with you removing transliteration from reference templates without any discussion. If you're comfortable with Cyrillic, others are not. It's been a very long practice for most language written in scripts other than Latin. If it's to be done, need to agree with the public and do it for many other languages as well. @<a href="/wiki/User:Benwing2" title="User:Benwing2">Benwing2</a>, @<a href="/wiki/User:Vahagn_Petrosyan" title="User:Vahagn Petrosyan">Vahagn Petrosyan</a>. <a href="/wiki/User:Atitarev" title="User:Atitarev">Anatoli T.</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Atitarev" title="User talk:Atitarev">обсудить</a>/<a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Atitarev" title="Special:Contributions/Atitarev">вклад</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Atitarev-20240119021600-Removing_transliteration_from_reference_templates" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:16, 19 January 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-11" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>I agree with Anatoli here. <a href="/wiki/User:Benwing2" title="User:Benwing2">Benwing2</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Benwing2" title="User talk:Benwing2">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Benwing2-20240119022000-Atitarev-20240119021600" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:20, 19 January 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-12" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:Atitarev" title="User:Atitarev">Atitarev</a> @<a href="/wiki/User:Benwing2" title="User:Benwing2">Benwing2</a> I'm not sure what the transliteration is adding here: we give a translation (which is necessary), but not giving the original title simply makes it difficult to look up the reference work. <a href="/wiki/User:Theknightwho" title="User:Theknightwho">Theknightwho</a> (<a class="mw-selflink selflink">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Theknightwho-20240119022200-Benwing2-20240119022000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:22, 19 January 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-13" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>If you have questions about reasoning, you can always ask in <a href="/wiki/Wiktionary:BP" class="mw-redirect" title="Wiktionary:BP">WT:BP</a>. I haven't established this practice, I'm simply following it and I see why it's used. <a href="/wiki/User:Atitarev" title="User:Atitarev">Anatoli T.</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Atitarev" title="User talk:Atitarev">обсудить</a>/<a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Atitarev" title="Special:Contributions/Atitarev">вклад</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Atitarev-20240119022700-Theknightwho-20240119022200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:27, 19 January 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-14" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:Atitarev" title="User:Atitarev">Atitarev</a> Alright - I'll revert and start a BP discussion, because I think obscuring the original title is a really bad idea. <a href="/wiki/User:Theknightwho" title="User:Theknightwho">Theknightwho</a> (<a class="mw-selflink selflink">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Theknightwho-20240119022800-Atitarev-20240119022700" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:28, 19 January 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-15" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>Thanks. In some case, when the title is not too long - both the original script and transliterations can be used (IMO!). As in <code style="white-space:pre-wrap">{{<a href="/wiki/Template:R:ur:Rekhta#top" title="Template:R:ur:Rekhta">R:ur:Rekhta</a>}}</code> and <code style="white-space:pre-wrap">{{<a href="/wiki/Template:R:ur:UDB#top" title="Template:R:ur:UDB">R:ur:UDB</a>}}</code>:</dd> <dd>Would it be even possible for you to remember these references if they were written only in Urdu? ریخْتَہ لُغَت (rexta luġat) and اُردُو لُغَت (urdū luġat). No-one reverted my edits there yet. <a href="/wiki/User:Atitarev" title="User:Atitarev">Anatoli T.</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Atitarev" title="User talk:Atitarev">обсудить</a>/<a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Atitarev" title="Special:Contributions/Atitarev">вклад</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Atitarev-20240119023500-Theknightwho-20240119022800" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:35, 19 January 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-16" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:Atitarev" title="User:Atitarev">Atitarev</a> So my preference would be that we should use transliteration + original script if there's no available translation (e.g. it's a proper noun or some weird coinage), but otherwise we should put original title + translation. I wouldn't remember the Urdu reference (since I can't read Urdu), but I definitely would remember the translation. <a href="/wiki/User:Theknightwho" title="User:Theknightwho">Theknightwho</a> (<a class="mw-selflink selflink">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Theknightwho-20240119023900-Atitarev-20240119023500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:39, 19 January 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-17" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>In case of <code style="white-space:pre-wrap">{{<a href="/wiki/Template:R:ur:UDB#top" title="Template:R:ur:UDB">R:ur:UDB</a>}}</code> it's just "UDB". "Urdu lughat" is the name dictionary is known by (=urdū luġat), which simply means "Urdu dictionary".</dd> <dd>"Orfoepičeskij slovarʹ russkovo jazyka" can be memorised by users having no exposure to Russian and used to refer to to native speakers. Native speakers may have no knowledge of [Orthoepic Dictionary of the Russian Language] or think of some other works. There are pros and cons, the decision was to use the translit. Browse through some <a href="/wiki/Category:Armenian_reference_templates" title="Category:Armenian reference templates">Category:Armenian reference templates</a>, you will probably get an idea. <a href="/wiki/User:Atitarev" title="User:Atitarev">Anatoli T.</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Atitarev" title="User talk:Atitarev">обсудить</a>/<a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Atitarev" title="Special:Contributions/Atitarev">вклад</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Atitarev-20240119024800-Theknightwho-20240119023900" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:48, 19 January 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-18" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:Atitarev" title="User:Atitarev">Atitarev</a> Alright. Whether or not we use transliterations, I'll raise a BP disucssion about including the original title, since I think that should always be included. <a href="/wiki/User:Theknightwho" title="User:Theknightwho">Theknightwho</a> (<a class="mw-selflink selflink">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Theknightwho-20240119025300-Atitarev-20240119024800" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:53, 19 January 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-19" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:Theknightwho" title="User:Theknightwho">Theknightwho</a>: I personally have no objections on including the original title. The question that may arise is whether to include the author, institution, etc. (original text, transliteration). There are some complex templates. <a href="/wiki/User:Atitarev" title="User:Atitarev">Anatoli T.</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Atitarev" title="User talk:Atitarev">обсудить</a>/<a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Atitarev" title="Special:Contributions/Atitarev">вклад</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Atitarev-20240119032700-Theknightwho-20240119025300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">03:27, 19 January 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-20" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:Atitarev" title="User:Atitarev">Atitarev</a> Yeah, it could get very messy, and we don't want ridiculously long references that are hard to use. <a href="/wiki/User:Theknightwho" title="User:Theknightwho">Theknightwho</a> (<a class="mw-selflink selflink">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Theknightwho-20240119033900-Atitarev-20240119032700" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">03:39, 19 January 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-21" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Good_idea" data-mw-thread-id="h-Good_idea-20240130170300">Good idea</h2>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Theknightwho&action=edit&section=6" title="Edit section: Good idea">edit</a>]<div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata">Latest comment: <a href="#c-Theknightwho-20240130170300-Good_idea">9 months ago</a>1 comment1 person in discussion</div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> (Withdrawn) 17:00, 30 January 2024 (UTC) <dl><dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:Geographyinitiative" title="User:Geographyinitiative">Geographyinitiative</a> It's not a big deal, but it's how we display WG in Chinese entries, so I thought it made sense to make them match. I only did it since I was using the same etymology for other WG-derived forms of <a href="/wiki/fanqie#English" title="fanqie">fanqie</a> (of which there are several, since English-speakers tend to mangle the apostrophes and dashes). <a href="/wiki/User:Theknightwho" title="User:Theknightwho">Theknightwho</a> (<a class="mw-selflink selflink">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Theknightwho-20240130170300-Good_idea" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:03, 30 January 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-22" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Ordering" data-mw-thread-id="h-Ordering-20240202063000">Ordering</h2>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Theknightwho&action=edit&section=7" title="Edit section: Ordering">edit</a>]<div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata">Latest comment: <a href="#c-Widsith-20240219082100-Benwing2-20240211204000">9 months ago</a>7 comments3 people in discussion</div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> "I am consistently baffled by your ordering of etymologies in entries. The top 3 etymologies are all inherited from Middle English, so I see no obvious reason to put them in reverse order of notability." Well, let me unbaffle you. They're not in "reverse order of notability" – I'm not sure what that even means – but in chronological order, the same way every historical dictionary orders their senses. "Bill" the weapon is a very old word that appears in, for example, Beowulf, which is why I had it first. A bird's bill also goes back to Old English. The others come later, from other sources. I see you have changed it, but I'm not sure what your plan is. "Notability"? Is that just a subjective judgement or are you quantifying it somehow? <a href="/wiki/User:Widsith" title="User:Widsith">Ƿidsiþ</a> <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Widsith-20240202063000-Ordering" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">06:30, 2 February 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-23" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:Widsith" title="User:Widsith">Widsith</a> I understand why you've done that, but all three were inherited into English from Middle English, so the chronological argument doesn't hold since we treat the two as separate languages. This is of course arbitrary to some extent, but it does reduce its importance, since to an average English speaker all have been an established part of the language for the whole period of which they are able to understand.</dd> <dd><div class="paragraphbreak" style="margin-top:0.5em"></div></dd> <dd>Notability is determined by use. No, I haven't quantified it here, but I am reasonably certain that the order in which I've placed them is the order in which they are most used.</dd> <dd><div class="paragraphbreak" style="margin-top:0.5em"></div></dd> <dd>We've had this discussion before, with <a href="/wiki/brake#English" title="brake">brake</a>, and I've spotted quite a few others. For example, at <a href="/wiki/pink#English" title="pink">pink</a> the colour was at <a class="external text" href="https://en.wiktionary.org/w/index.php?title=pink&oldid=75049578">etymology 4, sense 3</a>, below regional and obsolete terms. That makes sense if you are only concerned with etymology and chronological order, but there are other concerns to balance against that, too. <a href="/wiki/User:Theknightwho" title="User:Theknightwho">Theknightwho</a> (<a class="mw-selflink selflink">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Theknightwho-20240209153700-Widsith-20240202063000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:37, 9 February 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-24" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:Widsith" title="User:Widsith">Widsith</a> In this case I agree with <a href="/wiki/User:Theknightwho" title="User:Theknightwho">User:Theknightwho</a>. It is normal to put rarer etymologies after more common ones. You will see for example that under <a href="/wiki/bay" title="bay">bay</a> and <a href="/wiki/flag" title="flag">flag</a>, the etymologies associated with the obvious meanings are first irrespective of whether the terms are inherited from Old English or borrowed from French. <a href="/wiki/User:Benwing2" title="User:Benwing2">Benwing2</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Benwing2" title="User talk:Benwing2">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Benwing2-20240210023700-Theknightwho-20240209153700" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:37, 10 February 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-25" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>This is not a method that I find useful or sustainable in a dictionary, but I understand that everyone has their own preferences. I just find it annoying to have things moved around as though Wiktionary had a policy on this matter, which as far as I know it doesn't. I'm also not at all sure how people plan to decide on the most ‘notable’ sense of words like <a href="/wiki/set" title="set">set</a> or <a href="/wiki/run" title="run">run</a>. <a href="/wiki/User:Widsith" title="User:Widsith">Ƿidsiþ</a> <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Widsith-20240211165800-Benwing2-20240210023700" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:58, 11 February 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-26" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:Widsith" title="User:Widsith">Widsith</a> For what it's worth, I would much rather this was done by user preference. i.e. have some (possibly subjective) ordering as the default, but it would display chronologically if the user's preferences are set that way and the info is there, since I appreciate that the current approach is an unhappy compromise between incompatible needs. It would take some heavy duty work to achieve it, though.<a href="/wiki/User:Theknightwho" title="User:Theknightwho">Theknightwho</a> (<a class="mw-selflink selflink">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Theknightwho-20240211170400-Widsith-20240211165800" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:04, 11 February 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-27" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:Widsith" title="User:Widsith">Widsith</a> I think it's fine to order meanings within an Etymology section chronologically or according to some logical order, e.g. literal before figurative, as long as there is appropriate verbiage, like originally .... The issue above has to do with different Etymology sections, and I'm not sure there are multiple such sections for <a href="/wiki/run" title="run">run</a> or <a href="/wiki/set" title="set">set</a>. <a href="/wiki/User:Benwing2" title="User:Benwing2">Benwing2</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Benwing2" title="User talk:Benwing2">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Benwing2-20240211204000-Theknightwho-20240211170400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:40, 11 February 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-28" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:Theknightwho" title="User:Theknightwho">Theknightwho</a>, yes we've talked about the desirability of implementing this before, but as far as I know no one has yet come up with a solution that doesn't involve putting the editing work behind some daunting coding. @<a href="/wiki/User:Benwing2" title="User:Benwing2">Benwing2</a>, I agree that ordering within an Etymology section is the more important issue. <a href="/wiki/User:Widsith" title="User:Widsith">Ƿidsiþ</a> <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Widsith-20240219082100-Benwing2-20240211204000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">08:21, 19 February 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-29" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Solombala_English" data-mw-thread-id="h-Solombala_English-20240209172200">Solombala English</h2>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Theknightwho&action=edit&section=8" title="Edit section: Solombala English">edit</a>]<div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata">Latest comment: <a href="#c-Tollef_Salemann-20240209173500-Theknightwho-20240209172600">9 months ago</a>3 comments2 people in discussion</div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> Hi! Do you know how to add new language code for Solombala English? It is a very poorly attested pidgin language, so I'm not sure if it worths it to add it, and I don't know how to do it. There are totally 20 words known in this language, and 1 of them is misprinted, and 1 other is very piquant in the original source, but this fact is ignored by the later translators. <a href="/wiki/User:Tollef_Salemann" title="User:Tollef Salemann">Tollef Salemann</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Tollef_Salemann" title="User talk:Tollef Salemann">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Tollef_Salemann-20240209172200-Solombala_English" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:22, 9 February 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-30" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:Tollef_Salemann" title="User:Tollef Salemann">Tollef Salemann</a> Hiya - it's best to request this at <a href="/wiki/Wiktionary:RFM" class="mw-redirect" title="Wiktionary:RFM">WT:RFM</a>, to get consensus. <a href="/wiki/User:Theknightwho" title="User:Theknightwho">Theknightwho</a> (<a class="mw-selflink selflink">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Theknightwho-20240209172600-Tollef_Salemann-20240209172200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:26, 9 February 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-31" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>Thanks! <a href="/wiki/User:Tollef_Salemann" title="User:Tollef Salemann">Tollef Salemann</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Tollef_Salemann" title="User talk:Tollef Salemann">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Tollef_Salemann-20240209173500-Theknightwho-20240209172600" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:35, 9 February 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-32" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="pagename_breakage_in_Module:headword" data-mw-thread-id="h-pagename_breakage_in_Module:headword-20240210023400">pagename breakage in <a href="/wiki/Module:headword" title="Module:headword">Module:headword</a></h2>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Theknightwho&action=edit&section=9" title="Edit section: pagename breakage in Module:headword">edit</a>]<div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata">Latest comment: <a href="#c-Theknightwho-20240210024900-Benwing2-20240210023400">9 months ago</a>2 comments2 people in discussion</div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> Hi. After I revamped <a href="/wiki/Module:headword" title="Module:headword">Module:headword</a> and added support for overriding the pagename using `data.pagename`, you made a bunch of changes to this module that broke this support. The pagename in `data.pagename` is now partly ignored in favor of a pagename taken from <a href="/wiki/Module:headword/data" title="Module:headword/data">Module:headword/data</a>, which always uses the actual pagename. What is the reason for this? Is it to do with unsupported titles? If so we need to restore this support as it's important for testing purposes. <a href="/wiki/User:Benwing2" title="User:Benwing2">Benwing2</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Benwing2" title="User talk:Benwing2">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Benwing2-20240210023400-pagename_breakage_in_Module:headword" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:34, 10 February 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-33" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:Benwing2" title="User:Benwing2">Benwing2</a> My bad - yes, it's to do with unsupported titles. The pagename in <a href="/wiki/Module:headword/data" title="Module:headword/data">Module:headword/data</a> is a normalised form of the page title which is supposed to be used in place of <code>mw.title.getCurrentTitle().subpageText</code> in all circumstances. <a href="/wiki/User:Theknightwho" title="User:Theknightwho">Theknightwho</a> (<a class="mw-selflink selflink">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Theknightwho-20240210024900-Benwing2-20240210023400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:49, 10 February 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-34" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Yo,_why'd_you_do_this_revert?" data-mw-thread-id="h-Yo,_why'd_you_do_this_revert?-20240216001800">Yo, why'd you do this revert?</h2>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Theknightwho&action=edit&section=10" title="Edit section: Yo, why'd you do this revert?">edit</a>]<div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata">Latest comment: <a href="#c-Heyandwhoa-20240216004000-Theknightwho-20240216002800">9 months ago</a>7 comments2 people in discussion</div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <a class="external free" href="https://en.wiktionary.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:hshs&diff=prev&oldid=78117814&title=Talk%3Ahshs&diffonly=1">https://en.wiktionary.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:hshs&diff=prev&oldid=78117814&title=Talk%3Ahshs&diffonly=1</a>, If I'm the person who made the diss then I should be able to delete it, right? Problem solved..? <a href="/wiki/User:Heyandwhoa" title="User:Heyandwhoa">Heyandwhoa</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Heyandwhoa" title="User talk:Heyandwhoa">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Heyandwhoa-20240216001800-Yo,_why'd_you_do_this_revert?" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:18, 16 February 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-35" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:Heyandwhoa" title="User:Heyandwhoa">Heyandwhoa</a> It was a thread involving multiple people, so it's best to keep it. <a href="/wiki/User:Theknightwho" title="User:Theknightwho">Theknightwho</a> (<a class="mw-selflink selflink">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Theknightwho-20240216002000-Heyandwhoa-20240216001800" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:20, 16 February 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-36" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:Theknightwho" title="User:Theknightwho">Theknightwho</a> But technically the problem's already solved? <a href="/wiki/User:Heyandwhoa" title="User:Heyandwhoa">Heyandwhoa</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Heyandwhoa" title="User talk:Heyandwhoa">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Heyandwhoa-20240216002200-Theknightwho-20240216002000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:22, 16 February 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-37" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:Heyandwhoa" title="User:Heyandwhoa">Heyandwhoa</a> Sure, but we still don't delete the discussion. <a href="/wiki/User:Theknightwho" title="User:Theknightwho">Theknightwho</a> (<a class="mw-selflink selflink">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Theknightwho-20240216002400-Heyandwhoa-20240216002200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:24, 16 February 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-38" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:Theknightwho" title="User:Theknightwho">Theknightwho</a> Then what's the reason of keeping it? (There's page history?) <a href="/wiki/User:Heyandwhoa" title="User:Heyandwhoa">Heyandwhoa</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Heyandwhoa" title="User talk:Heyandwhoa">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Heyandwhoa-20240216002600-Theknightwho-20240216002400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:26, 16 February 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-39" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:Heyandwhoa" title="User:Heyandwhoa">Heyandwhoa</a> Because it's much easier to find if we ever need to refer to it. We tend to prefer transparency when it comes to discussions, and I don't see any reason to delete this. <a href="/wiki/User:Theknightwho" title="User:Theknightwho">Theknightwho</a> (<a class="mw-selflink selflink">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Theknightwho-20240216002800-Heyandwhoa-20240216002600" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:28, 16 February 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-40" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>Hmm, okay then. <a href="/wiki/User:Heyandwhoa" title="User:Heyandwhoa">Heyandwhoa</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Heyandwhoa" title="User talk:Heyandwhoa">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Heyandwhoa-20240216004000-Theknightwho-20240216002800" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:40, 16 February 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-41" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="In_case_you_haven't_noticed" data-mw-thread-id="h-In_case_you_haven't_noticed-20240216231900">In case you haven't noticed</h2>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Theknightwho&action=edit&section=11" title="Edit section: In case you haven't noticed">edit</a>]<div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata">Latest comment: <a href="#c-Theknightwho-20240218175000-Chuck_Entz-20240217021700">9 months ago</a>4 comments2 people in discussion</div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <a href="/wiki/Wiktionary:LOL" class="mw-redirect" title="Wiktionary:LOL">WT:LOL</a> is in <a href="/wiki/Category:E" class="mw-redirect" title="Category:E">CAT:E</a>, and your edits to <a href="/wiki/Module:families/data" title="Module:families/data">Module:families/data</a> and <a href="/wiki/Module:languages/data/exceptional" title="Module:languages/data/exceptional">Module:languages/data/exceptional</a> are the only recent changes in the transclusion list for the section with the error. <a href="/wiki/User:Chuck_Entz" title="User:Chuck Entz">Chuck Entz</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Chuck_Entz" title="User talk:Chuck Entz">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Chuck_Entz-20240216231900-In_case_you_haven't_noticed" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:19, 16 February 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-42" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:Chuck_Entz" title="User:Chuck Entz">Chuck Entz</a> Thanks - it was <a class="external text" href="https://en.wiktionary.org/w/index.php?title=Module%3Alanguages%2Fdata%2Fexceptional%2Fextra&diff=78129617&oldid=78126459">this bug</a>, which was down to me as well. <a href="/wiki/User:Theknightwho" title="User:Theknightwho">Theknightwho</a> (<a class="mw-selflink selflink">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Theknightwho-20240216233600-Chuck_Entz-20240216231900" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:36, 16 February 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-43" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd>While you're at it, could you take a look at <a href="/wiki/Module:translations/multi-nowiki/documentation" title="Module:translations/multi-nowiki/documentation">Module:translations/multi-nowiki/documentation</a>? I realize it's the wee hours in your time zone, so whenever you have the time. Thanks! <a href="/wiki/User:Chuck_Entz" title="User:Chuck Entz">Chuck Entz</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Chuck_Entz" title="User talk:Chuck Entz">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Chuck_Entz-20240217021700-Theknightwho-20240216233600" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:17, 17 February 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-44" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:Chuck_Entz" title="User:Chuck Entz">Chuck Entz</a> Thanks - that’s caused by recent changes to the template parser. It’s complex, but template validity is determined at two different points: <ul><li>The first checks the whole page and finds any template blocks (<code>{{...}}</code>), so any that don’t even register as a template block fail at this stage: e.g. <code>{{ [[ }}</code> fails outright, since the parser sees the <code>}}</code> as part of the “wikilink” opened by <code>]]</code>, even though the wikilink will (later) be deemed invalid. Those were already being caught.</li> <li>The second checks the template name is a valid title. This was harder to check for, since we want to exclude invalid titles, but not parser functions like <code style="white-space:pre-wrap">{{<a href="https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Help:Extension:ParserFunctions##if" class="extiw" title="mw:Help:Extension:ParserFunctions">#if</a>:}}</code>, since “#if:” is not a valid title. Another issue is that the first argument for a parser function (argument “0”) comes after the colon, not after the first pipe.</li></ul></dd> <dd><div class="paragraphbreak" style="margin-top:0.5em"></div></dd> <dd>On top of this, there are transclusion modifiers like <code style="white-space:pre-wrap">{{subst:}}</code>, <code style="white-space:pre-wrap">{{safesubst:}}</code> etc. I haven’t added support for these yet, partly because you can’t even save a subst call (though you can use clever transclusion to make one), and also because I thought it wasn’t needed yet. However, the documentation for <a href="/wiki/Module:translations/multi-nowiki" title="Module:translations/multi-nowiki">Module:translations/multi-nowiki</a> has some kind of example involving subst, which is now failing: <code style="white-space:pre-wrap">{{<a href="https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Substitution" class="extiw" title="mw:Manual:Substitution">subst</a>:<a href="https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Scribunto#Usage" class="extiw" title="mw:Extension:Scribunto">#invoke</a>:<a href="/wiki/Module:languages/templates#top" title="Module:languages/templates">languages/templates</a>}}</code>.</dd> <dd><div class="paragraphbreak" style="margin-top:0.5em"></div></dd> <dd>What happens is that the template parser doesn’t know subst is special, so it thinks a template call starting with that should be treated as a conventional call to a template with a name starting <code>subst:</code> (which is in fact valid). Template calls work a bit like links, so everything after a <code>#</code> gets treated as a fragment, which is ignored, so the template parser thinks this is a call to the template <code>subst:</code>. Multitrans-nowiki then strips off the <code>subst:</code>, giving the empty string, which eventually leads to an error since that isn’t a valid template name.</dd> <dd><div class="paragraphbreak" style="margin-top:0.5em"></div></dd> <dd>I’m reluctant to spend too long as this since there’s no clear need for multitrans-nowiki in the near future, so if there’s no quick fix I’ll just comment the documentation’s use of it out for now. <a href="/wiki/User:Theknightwho" title="User:Theknightwho">Theknightwho</a> (<a class="mw-selflink selflink">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Theknightwho-20240218175000-Chuck_Entz-20240217021700" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:50, 18 February 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-45" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="[Untitled]" data-mw-thread-id="h-[Untitled]-20240219042700">[Untitled]</h2>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Theknightwho&action=edit&section=12" title="Edit section: [Untitled]">edit</a>]<div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata">Latest comment: <a href="#c-Equinox-20240219115100-Theknightwho-20240219065800">9 months ago</a>4 comments2 people in discussion</div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> Stop censoring users talking to people on user talk pages. It's against wiki's policies <dl><dd>I can delete what I like from my own talkpage, but since you're complaining about censorship on Wikipedia, all I can actually see is you <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Vaccine_Choice_Canada&action=history">repeatedly trying to censor criticism</a> of some anti-vaccine group in Canada. <a href="/wiki/User:Theknightwho" title="User:Theknightwho">Theknightwho</a> (<a class="mw-selflink selflink">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Theknightwho-20240219042700-[Untitled]" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">04:27, 19 February 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-46" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd></dl> Thank you for just proving my point. You're using my activity on a vaccine post where I'm trying to work AGAINST censoring the other side of the issue... to influence your decision on my editting a word "sapristi" which has nothing at all to do with vaccines. See the bias? See the evil? See why users online hate wikipedia editors? So go ahead and delete my comments to prove my point. Go ahead and prove that you can't take criticism and you just shut down opinions and editors that you dont' agree with. Have a nice day. <dl><dd>Firstly, I only looked at your editing history after you randomly accused me of censoring you on Wikipedia. Secondly, you removing content because you don't like it is not "work[ing] AGAINST censoring the other side" - it's just censorship and shutting down opinions that you don't agree with. Thirdly, your contribution at <a href="/wiki/sapristi#French" title="sapristi">sapristi</a> was removed because it wasn't in line with <a href="/wiki/Wiktionary:Entry_layout" title="Wiktionary:Entry layout">WT:Entry layout</a>. You were invited to add the same content in the proper manner, but instead you've chosen to have a childish tantrum about it instead. Grow up; it's pretty clear to any well-adjusted person that you're spending way too much time online. <a href="/wiki/User:Theknightwho" title="User:Theknightwho">Theknightwho</a> (<a class="mw-selflink selflink">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Theknightwho-20240219044000-[Untitled]" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">04:40, 19 February 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-47" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd></dl> No, what's obvious to anyone reading this transaction is that Wikipedia is a censorious body. You editors say: "everyone is welcome" and then you say: "you just didn't speak to us the correct way... you need to put your comments in a talk page first." Then when the user goes to edit a talk page, the content is deleted by yet another wikipedia editor who says: "the talk page content you provide is hateful or not wanted" even though this 3rd editor has nothing to do with the original issue. Ever heard of 'mob rule'? That's wikipedia. Stop insulting users that are trying to fix your censorship with comments like "spend less time online". Why don't you do the same and stop censoring everyone that disagrees with you. It's the 3rd time in 3 days that I've been called a 5 year old by a wikipedia editor. Perhaps you've heard of projection? <dl><dd>So let me get this straight: you're being censored because you were prevented from removing criticism of an anti-vaccine group. Did I get that right? <a href="/wiki/User:Theknightwho" title="User:Theknightwho">Theknightwho</a> (<a class="mw-selflink selflink">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Theknightwho-20240219065800-[Untitled]" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">06:58, 19 February 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-48" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd></dl> <dl><dd>"It's the 3rd time in 3 days that I've been called a 5 year old by a wikipedia editor." Maybe listen then. <a href="/wiki/User:Equinox" title="User:Equinox">Equinox</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Equinox" title="User talk:Equinox">◑</a> <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Equinox-20240219115100-Theknightwho-20240219065800" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">11:51, 19 February 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-49" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="ᠬᠥᠭᠵᠢᠮ" data-mw-thread-id="h-ᠬᠥᠭᠵᠢᠮ-20240219114500">ᠬᠥᠭᠵᠢᠮ</h2>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Theknightwho&action=edit&section=13" title="Edit section: ᠬᠥᠭᠵᠢᠮ">edit</a>]<div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata">Latest comment: <a href="#c-Bathrobe-20240219194000-Theknightwho-20240219185100">9 months ago</a>5 comments2 people in discussion</div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> Knight, this is very strange. At the editing stage ᠬᠥᠭᠵᠢᠮ rendered correctly. But after editing was finished, on the completed page, it rendered as two teeth (no dots to indicate voicing). I don't know what the problem is, but it might be the computer (operating system) I'm using -- that is a Macbook. At any rate, I won't try to "fix" this kind of issue again. <a href="/wiki/User:Bathrobe" title="User:Bathrobe">Bathrobe</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Bathrobe" title="User talk:Bathrobe">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Bathrobe-20240219114500-ᠬᠥᠭᠵᠢᠮ" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">11:45, 19 February 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-50" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:Bathrobe" title="User:Bathrobe">Bathrobe</a> That makes sense. The whole state of Mongolian encoding is a mess, so I imagine there are many entries which are genuinely wrong. <a href="/wiki/User:Theknightwho" title="User:Theknightwho">Theknightwho</a> (<a class="mw-selflink selflink">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Theknightwho-20240219115300-Bathrobe-20240219114500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">11:53, 19 February 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-51" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>This is actually the first one I've encountered so far. I'll look out for others.</dd> <dd>There might be a problem with Wiktionary's rendering system. After all, the fact that it renders correctly at the editing stage, and even renders correctly on this page (although not in the heading to this section) suggests to me that the issue lies with Wiktionary. <a href="/wiki/User:Bathrobe" title="User:Bathrobe">Bathrobe</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Bathrobe" title="User talk:Bathrobe">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Bathrobe-20240219183800-Theknightwho-20240219115300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:38, 19 February 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-52" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:Bathrobe" title="User:Bathrobe">Bathrobe</a> The heading renders okay to me - I suspect it’s a browser or font issue. <a href="/wiki/User:Theknightwho" title="User:Theknightwho">Theknightwho</a> (<a class="mw-selflink selflink">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Theknightwho-20240219185100-Bathrobe-20240219183800" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:51, 19 February 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-53" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>Another example I've found is өгөх, that is ᠥᠭᠬᠦ, which renders wrongly at the page on 'give'. <a href="/wiki/User:Bathrobe" title="User:Bathrobe">Bathrobe</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Bathrobe" title="User talk:Bathrobe">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Bathrobe-20240219194000-Theknightwho-20240219185100" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:40, 19 February 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-54" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="(mock-)Persian_σάτρα" data-mw-thread-id="h-(mock-)Persian_σάτρα-20240228075700">(mock-)Persian <a href="/wiki/%CF%83%CE%AC%CF%84%CF%81%CE%B1" title="σάτρα">σάτρα</a></h2>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Theknightwho&action=edit&section=14" title="Edit section: (mock-)Persian σάτρα">edit</a>]<div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata">Latest comment: <a href="#c-Victar-20240229090600-AntiquatedMan-20240228075700">8 months ago</a>4 comments4 people in discussion</div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> Hey, I was wondering if you had some suggestions how to deal with <a href="/wiki/%CF%83%CE%AC%CF%84%CF%81%CE%B1" title="σάτρα">σάτρα</a>, which according to the dictionaries is either a Persian or mock-Persian word, but is currently included as an Ancient Greek word? It was, to my knowledge, never actually borrowed into Greek, since it's a hapax in a comedy line. The quote (from a Comedy) there also is technically also non-Greek, though there is disagreement as to whether it can be interpretted as a real Persian quote, or if it is just meant to sound vaguely like Persian to an Ancient Greek audience. Thanks! <a href="/wiki/User:AntiquatedMan" title="User:AntiquatedMan">AntiquatedMan</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:AntiquatedMan" title="User talk:AntiquatedMan">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-AntiquatedMan-20240228075700-(mock-)Persian_σάτρα" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">07:57, 28 February 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-55" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:AntiquatedMan" title="User:AntiquatedMan">AntiquatedMan</a> Hiya - something similar recently came up on the Beer Parlour in <a href="/wiki/Wiktionary:Beer_parlour#κινούβοιλα_(Dacian)" title="Wiktionary:Beer parlour">this thread</a>, actually, but @<a href="/wiki/User:Nicodene" title="User:Nicodene">Nicodene</a> is much better placed to help you than I am, so I'll let them respond. <a href="/wiki/User:Theknightwho" title="User:Theknightwho">Theknightwho</a> (<a class="mw-selflink selflink">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Theknightwho-20240228080300-AntiquatedMan-20240228075700" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">08:03, 28 February 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-56" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd> <dd>Well, it's certainly not Greek. I would ask our Indo-Iranian editors what to do with it. <a href="/wiki/User:Nicodene" title="User:Nicodene">Nicodene</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Nicodene" title="User talk:Nicodene">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Nicodene-20240228085100-AntiquatedMan-20240228075700" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">08:51, 28 February 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-57" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd> <dd>Huh, def not the <a href="/wiki/%F0%90%8E%AD%F0%90%8E%BC%F0%90%8E%B4%F0%90%8E%B9" title="𐎭𐎼𐎴𐎹">Old Persian word for gold</a>. Will have to look into it. --<code>{{<a href="/wiki/User:Victar" title="User:Victar">victar</a>|<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Victar" title="User talk:Victar">talk</a>}}</code> <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Victar-20240229090600-AntiquatedMan-20240228075700" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">09:06, 29 February 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-58" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="changelog_messages" data-mw-thread-id="h-changelog_messages-20240229041600">changelog messages</h2>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Theknightwho&action=edit&section=15" title="Edit section: changelog messages">edit</a>]<div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata">Latest comment: <a href="#c-Theknightwho-20240229232100-Benwing2-20240229041600">8 months ago</a>2 comments2 people in discussion</div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> Just want to say, I notice you've gotten a lot better about changelog messages. You can see it for example in <a href="/wiki/Module:languages/data/3/k" title="Module:languages/data/3/k">Module:languages/data/3/k</a>, where all your changes made in the last 3 months as well as most of them after March 2023 or so have changelog messages. Thank you; this is very helpful both when trying to understand why a particular change was made and when scanning the history to get the gist of what was changed over a period of time. <a href="/wiki/User:Benwing2" title="User:Benwing2">Benwing2</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Benwing2" title="User talk:Benwing2">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Benwing2-20240229041600-changelog_messages" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">04:16, 29 February 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-59" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>Thanks. <a href="/wiki/User:Theknightwho" title="User:Theknightwho">Theknightwho</a> (<a class="mw-selflink selflink">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Theknightwho-20240229232100-Benwing2-20240229041600" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:21, 29 February 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-60" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="'terms_with_audio_links'" data-mw-thread-id="h-'terms_with_audio_links'-20240304062600">'terms with audio links'</h2>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Theknightwho&action=edit&section=16" title="Edit section: 'terms with audio links'">edit</a>]<div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata">Latest comment: <a href="#c-Theknightwho-20240304113300-Benwing2-20240304062600">8 months ago</a>2 comments2 people in discussion</div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> 123 pages e.g. <a href="/wiki/%E5%BE%8C%E4%BE%86" title="後來">後來</a> are generating a category named 'terms with audio links' with the language name missing. The correct language seems to be Teochew, but I'm not sure why this is getting left out. <a href="/wiki/User:Benwing2" title="User:Benwing2">Benwing2</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Benwing2" title="User talk:Benwing2">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Benwing2-20240304062600-'terms_with_audio_links'" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">06:26, 4 March 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-61" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:Benwing2" title="User:Benwing2">Benwing2</a> Thanks, and fixed. It was down to an old hack in <a href="/wiki/Module:zh-pron" title="Module:zh-pron">Module:zh-pron</a> caused by trying to determine the parent of an etymology-only language by taking the first 3 letters of the code, which never got updated when Teochew got converted to a full language several years ago. Until now, I think they were being categorised as Min Nan audio. <a href="/wiki/User:Theknightwho" title="User:Theknightwho">Theknightwho</a> (<a class="mw-selflink selflink">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Theknightwho-20240304113300-Benwing2-20240304062600" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">11:33, 4 March 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-62" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Shit" data-mw-thread-id="h-Shit-20240305034000">Shit</h2>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Theknightwho&action=edit&section=17" title="Edit section: Shit">edit</a>]<div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata">Latest comment: <a href="#c-Kwamikagami-20240308044900-Theknightwho-20240306111800">8 months ago</a>14 comments5 people in discussion</div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> What kind of "shit" are you talking about? If you don't have the temperament to play with other kids, you should find your own sandbox. <a href="/wiki/User:Kwamikagami" title="User:Kwamikagami">kwami</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Kwamikagami" title="User talk:Kwamikagami">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Kwamikagami-20240305034000-Shit" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">03:40, 5 March 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-63" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:Kwamikagami" title="User:Kwamikagami">Kwamikagami</a> You can clearly see what change I made to <a href="/wiki/%E2%97%8C%CC%80" title="◌̀">◌̀</a>, where you were so careless in your editing that you left the Ancient Greek section looking like <a class="external text" href="https://en.m.wiktionary.org/w/index.php?title=%E2%97%8C%CC%80&oldid=77786736#Ancient_Greek">this</a> for months. Either you didn’t notice or didn’t care, but time and again I have found you leaving big messes like this on single-character pages, and you just don’t seem to give a shit about being more careful with your editing. Instead, you focus on making massive, sweeping changes without consensus, and treat anyone who objects with contempt (as can be seen in your message here, where you care more about the word “shit” than the entry you messed up for months). You will eventually find yourself blocked if you carry on. Pinging @<a href="/wiki/User:Benwing2" title="User:Benwing2">Benwing2</a>, @<a href="/wiki/User:Vininn126" title="User:Vininn126">Vininn126</a> and @<a href="/wiki/User:AG202" title="User:AG202">AG202</a> who have all expressed serious concerns about this before. <a href="/wiki/User:Theknightwho" title="User:Theknightwho">Theknightwho</a> (<a class="mw-selflink selflink">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Theknightwho-20240305101900-Kwamikagami-20240305034000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">10:19, 5 March 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-64" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>I mean, I don't know why they've been allowed to keep doing this. <a href="/wiki/User:AG202" title="User:AG202">AG202</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:AG202" title="User talk:AG202">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-AG202-20240305131300-Theknightwho-20240305101900" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">13:13, 5 March 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-65" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:AG202" title="User:AG202">AG202</a> At the very least, I don't think they should be autopatrolled. <a href="/wiki/User:Theknightwho" title="User:Theknightwho">Theknightwho</a> (<a class="mw-selflink selflink">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Theknightwho-20240305131500-AG202-20240305131300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">13:15, 5 March 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-66" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>I agree with removing the autopatroller status. Do you mind starting a thread in the BP about this? <a href="/wiki/User:Benwing2" title="User:Benwing2">Benwing2</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Benwing2" title="User talk:Benwing2">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Benwing2-20240306035500-Theknightwho-20240305131500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">03:55, 6 March 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-67" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd> <dd>Agreed. <a href="/wiki/User:Vininn126" title="User:Vininn126">Vininn126</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Vininn126" title="User talk:Vininn126">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Vininn126-20240306082600-Theknightwho-20240305131500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">08:26, 6 March 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-68" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd> <dd>I don't know how to use all the templates. It's not obvious what {{{10}}} is supposed to mean, for example. So I do the best I can. Something is better than nothing, unless you prefer aesthetics to content.</dd> <dd>Perhaps you might consider making the templates functional to people who don't know their backstory? WK is supposed to be for anyone to edit, not just for the people who create the interface.</dd> <dd>WP suffers a similar problem with declining participation because it's become less accessible to newbies. Yes, I know I'm not a newbie here, but I am when it comes to stuff like this. If an error is made with a template, the template should explain what the error is -- "X is missing", "Y is not permitted", etc. Not gibberish like "{{{10}}}". What kind of an error message is that? If you create templates that generate gibberish, then you're going to be stuck cleaning up after people who don't understand the gibberish. <a href="/wiki/User:Kwamikagami" title="User:Kwamikagami">kwami</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Kwamikagami" title="User talk:Kwamikagami">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Kwamikagami-20240306051800-Theknightwho-20240305101900" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">05:18, 6 March 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-69" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:Kwamikagami" title="User:Kwamikagami">Kwamikagami</a> This is a volunteer-led project and things aren't perfect, including the documentation. You have been around Wikipedia for quite awhile now and should know this. When you run into an issue, ask for help. I haven't seen you do this, or admit when you've made mistakes, or care about whether your changes are sloppy or break things. Instead you continue to make major changes without consensus and leave things in a messed-up state, as Theknightwho points out. I have tried to make it clear to you that Wiktionary is much more consensus driven than Wikipedia and so you can't just push your changes without consensus and expect to win out in a war of attrition, as people often do at Wikipedia. Doing that will lead to you being blocked. But you continue to do the same thing; sooner or later this will result in you getting blocked long-term. <a href="/wiki/User:Benwing2" title="User:Benwing2">Benwing2</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Benwing2" title="User talk:Benwing2">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Benwing2-20240306054500-Kwamikagami-20240306051800" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">05:45, 6 March 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-70" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>But this wasn't a major change, and there was no war of attrition. And I make mistakes all the time. When have I ever denied that? Yes, I should've asked for help in this case, but we're talking about one edit here, from almost a year ago. I don't know that I even noticed it at the time, but all Theknightwho had to do was say I'd left a mess and should clean it up. They didn't have to "clear up this kind of shit." If I make a mistake, just tell me. <a href="/wiki/User:Kwamikagami" title="User:Kwamikagami">kwami</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Kwamikagami" title="User talk:Kwamikagami">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Kwamikagami-20240306083900-Benwing2-20240306054500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">08:39, 6 March 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-71" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>People have and this is the exact behavior you have displayed then, too. You're not taking responsibility for what happened. <a href="/wiki/User:Vininn126" title="User:Vininn126">Vininn126</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Vininn126" title="User talk:Vininn126">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Vininn126-20240306084100-Kwamikagami-20240306083900" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">08:41, 6 March 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-72" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:Kwamikagami" title="User:Kwamikagami">Kwamikagami</a> has displayed this precise evasive behaviour going back years, and it clearly shows a contempt for other users. I really don’t see how they can be trusted to edit anymore, as the amount of work they create for others is enormous. The clean-up job will take months. This isn’t just one edit, and they know it’s not just about one edit, and pretending otherwise is just insulting. <a href="/wiki/User:Theknightwho" title="User:Theknightwho">Theknightwho</a> (<a class="mw-selflink selflink">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Theknightwho-20240306111800-Vininn126-20240306084100" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">11:18, 6 March 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-73" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>I've said this before, and I'll say it again. We need to stop coddling users that have shown time and time again that they will continue to behave in a disruptive manner. It makes other users not want to participate if they see that problematic users have free rein to mess things up, leaving others to clean up the mess. I don't care how long a user has been editing here, if anything, that gives more reason for stricter enforcement. This discussion shouldn't even be needed; they should've been blocked indefinitely when it was made clear many times that nothing will change. Y'all have the power to do so, so use it. Talking about it over and over again gets us nowhere. <a href="/wiki/User:AG202" title="User:AG202">AG202</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:AG202" title="User talk:AG202">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-AG202-20240306164800-Theknightwho-20240306111800" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:48, 6 March 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-74" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>If there are no plans to block, please don't ping me again in these discussions, as they only frustrate me even more. <a href="/wiki/User:AG202" title="User:AG202">AG202</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:AG202" title="User talk:AG202">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-AG202-20240306165000-AG202-20240306164800" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:50, 6 March 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-75" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd></dl></dd> <dd>No, I don't "know it’s not just about one edit." You've given one edit from a year ago that I don't even remember. But evidently you have seen others, so could you point some out? If it's going to "take months" to clean up my mess, you must have seen a lot of them. As I said, I'm happy to fix my errors if I know about them. I can't fix errors I don't know about. <a href="/wiki/User:Kwamikagami" title="User:Kwamikagami">kwami</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Kwamikagami" title="User talk:Kwamikagami">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Kwamikagami-20240308044900-Theknightwho-20240306111800" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">04:49, 8 March 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-76" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id=""you_already_know_that_we_don't_do_hard_redirects_in_mainspace"" data-mw-thread-id="h-"you_already_know_that_we_don't_do_hard_redirects_in_mainspace"-20240311043400">"you already know that we don't do hard redirects in mainspace"</h2>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Theknightwho&action=edit&section=18" title="Edit section: "you already know that we don't do hard redirects in mainspace"">edit</a>]<div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata">Latest comment: <a href="#c-Benwing2-20240311053200-Theknightwho-20240311052800">8 months ago</a>5 comments3 people in discussion</div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> That's false. We've done that for years. But then, I expect such things from you any more, like claiming bad faith when I try to accommodate conflicting demands. <a href="/wiki/User:Kwamikagami" title="User:Kwamikagami">kwami</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Kwamikagami" title="User talk:Kwamikagami">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Kwamikagami-20240311043400-"you_already_know_that_we_don't_do_hard_redirects_in_mainspace"" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">04:34, 11 March 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-77" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>Really, do we @<a href="/wiki/User:Benwing2" title="User:Benwing2">Benwing2</a>? That's news to me, @<a href="/wiki/User:Kwamikagami" title="User:Kwamikagami">Kwamikagami</a>. <a href="/wiki/User:Theknightwho" title="User:Theknightwho">Theknightwho</a> (<a class="mw-selflink selflink">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Theknightwho-20240311043800-Kwamikagami-20240311043400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">04:38, 11 March 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-78" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>Not sure what this is in reference to. We do generally avoid mainspace hard redirects, preferring soft redirects. Some people have argued that hard redirects are acceptable when they involve characters that are unique to a given language, on the principle that no other language could possibly have the term in question in it. Sometimes hard redirects outside of this case exist as well, but IMO they should not, and often come about because editors either don't know the rules about hard redirects or are too lazy to care. <a href="/wiki/User:Benwing2" title="User:Benwing2">Benwing2</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Benwing2" title="User talk:Benwing2">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Benwing2-20240311045200-Theknightwho-20240311043800" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">04:52, 11 March 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-79" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:Benwing2" title="User:Benwing2">Benwing2</a> In this particular case, it was redirecting <a href="/wiki/%D2%A7" title="ҧ">ҧ‎</a> to <a href="/wiki/%D4%A5" title="ԥ">ԥ</a>, which would be like hard redirecting variant Chinese characters. Even though the literal meaning is the same, they're still different, because you can't just interchange them in every context. <a href="/wiki/User:Theknightwho" title="User:Theknightwho">Theknightwho</a> (<a class="mw-selflink selflink">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Theknightwho-20240311052800-Benwing2-20240311045200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">05:28, 11 March 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-80" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>Agreed, in this case (and in general all cases with single characters) there should not be any hard redirects. <a href="/wiki/User:Benwing2" title="User:Benwing2">Benwing2</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Benwing2" title="User talk:Benwing2">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Benwing2-20240311053200-Theknightwho-20240311052800" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">05:32, 11 March 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-81" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Breath_of_Fresh_Air" data-mw-thread-id="h-Breath_of_Fresh_Air-20240314002400">Breath of Fresh Air</h2>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Theknightwho&action=edit&section=19" title="Edit section: Breath of Fresh Air">edit</a>]<div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata">Latest comment: <a href="#c-Theknightwho-20240314002400-Breath_of_Fresh_Air">8 months ago</a>1 comment1 person in discussion</div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> (Withdrawn) 00:20, 14 March 2024 (UTC) <dl><dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:Geographyinitiative" title="User:Geographyinitiative">Geographyinitiative</a> Thanks! <a href="/wiki/User:Theknightwho" title="User:Theknightwho">Theknightwho</a> (<a class="mw-selflink selflink">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Theknightwho-20240314002400-Breath_of_Fresh_Air" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:24, 14 March 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-82" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Template_talk:ja-pron#Add_DJR4" data-mw-thread-id="h-Template_talk:ja-pron#Add_DJR4-20240315054300"><a href="/wiki/Template_talk:ja-pron#Add_DJR4" title="Template talk:ja-pron">Template talk:ja-pron#Add DJR4</a></h2>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Theknightwho&action=edit&section=20" title="Edit section: Template talk:ja-pron#Add DJR4">edit</a>]<div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata">Latest comment: <a href="#c-Lugria-20240318004900-Theknightwho-20240317172900">8 months ago</a>3 comments2 people in discussion</div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> I do not have a right to edit <a href="/wiki/Module:ja-pron" title="Module:ja-pron">Module:ja-pron</a>, so could you please add <code>['DJR4'] = 'R:Daijirin4',</code> in ref_template_name_data instead of me? <a href="/wiki/User:Lugria" title="User:Lugria"><ruby><rb style="font-family:Optima">Lugria</rb><rt lang="ja" style="font-family:serif">ルグリア</rt></ruby></a> [<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Lugria" title="User talk:Lugria">会話</a>／<a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Lugria" title="Special:Contributions/Lugria">貢献</a>] <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Lugria-20240315054300-Template_talk:ja-pron#Add_DJR4" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">05:43, 15 March 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-83" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:Lugria" title="User:Lugria">Lugria</a> <a href="/wiki/File:Yes_check.svg" class="mw-file-description"><img alt="Done" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/fb/Yes_check.svg/15px-Yes_check.svg.png" decoding="async" width="15" height="15" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/fb/Yes_check.svg/23px-Yes_check.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/fb/Yes_check.svg/30px-Yes_check.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="600" data-file-height="600"/></a> Done <a href="/wiki/User:Theknightwho" title="User:Theknightwho">Theknightwho</a> (<a class="mw-selflink selflink">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Theknightwho-20240317172900-Lugria-20240315054300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:29, 17 March 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-84" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>Thank you. <a href="/wiki/User:Lugria" title="User:Lugria"><ruby><rb style="font-family:Optima">Lugria</rb><rt lang="ja" style="font-family:serif">ルグリア</rt></ruby></a> [<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Lugria" title="User talk:Lugria">会話</a>／<a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Lugria" title="Special:Contributions/Lugria">貢献</a>] <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Lugria-20240318004900-Theknightwho-20240317172900" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:49, 18 March 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-85" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Invalid_params_in_call_to_Template:cite-book:_tr=;_nocat=;_termlang=;_subst=;_journal=" data-mw-thread-id="h-Invalid_params_in_call_to_Template:cite-book:_tr=;_nocat=;_termlang=;_subst=;_jo-20240317072500">Invalid params in call to Template:cite-book: tr=; nocat=; termlang=; subst=; journal=</h2>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Theknightwho&action=edit&section=21" title="Edit section: Invalid params in call to Template:cite-book: tr=; nocat=; termlang=; subst=; journal=">edit</a>]<div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata">Latest comment: <a href="#c-Chuck_Entz-20240317221500-JeffDoozan-20240317203800">8 months ago</a>4 comments4 people in discussion</div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> Technically I have not called parameters. But with the catch-my-attention gadget I now see suchlike in every of many templates which are both reference and citation templates, e.g. <a href="/wiki/Template:R:sem-eth:Littmann" title="Template:R:sem-eth:Littmann">T:R:sem-eth:Littmann</a>, including in the mainspace wherever they are included, interestingly here only for the parts choosing cite-book and quote-book, not cite-journal and quote-journal, so there is probably just an omission copypasto in some Module check. Some people do bot runs to remove alleged invalid parameters, but these are conditionally invalid and would need to be passed first to be invalid. <a href="/wiki/User:Fay_Freak" title="User:Fay Freak">Fay Freak</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Fay_Freak" title="User talk:Fay Freak">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Fay_Freak-20240317072500-Invalid_params_in_call_to_Template:cite-book:_tr=;_nocat=;_termlang=;_subst=;_jo" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">07:25, 17 March 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-86" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:Fay_Freak" title="User:Fay Freak">Fay Freak</a> I think @<a href="/wiki/User:JeffDoozan" title="User:JeffDoozan">JeffDoozan</a> may be able to help - I'm not very familiar with these templates. <a href="/wiki/User:Theknightwho" title="User:Theknightwho">Theknightwho</a> (<a class="mw-selflink selflink">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Theknightwho-20240317200100-Fay_Freak-20240317072500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:01, 17 March 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-87" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:Fay_Freak" title="User:Fay Freak">Fay Freak</a> I added the attention seeking warnings to cite-book and am actively cleaning up uses of cite-book with bad params with the goal of making it more compatible with quote-book. I've adjusted cite-book to handle/ignore most of the parameters that quote-book handles, which removed the warnings on <a href="/wiki/Template:R:sem-eth:Littmann" title="Template:R:sem-eth:Littmann">T:R:sem-eth:Littmann</a>. <a href="/wiki/User:JeffDoozan" title="User:JeffDoozan">JeffDoozan</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:JeffDoozan" title="User talk:JeffDoozan">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-JeffDoozan-20240317203800-Theknightwho-20240317200100" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:38, 17 March 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-88" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:JeffDoozan" title="User:JeffDoozan">JeffDoozan</a>: <code style="white-space:pre-wrap">{{<a href="/wiki/Template:R:cu:ESJS#top" title="Template:R:cu:ESJS">R:cu:ESJS</a>}}</code> started throwing an invisible module error at about the same time you did this, and I suspect these changes are somehow involved. I don't really understand what's going on, but tinkering with html comments has narrowed it down to <code style="white-space:pre-wrap">{{<a href="/wiki/Template:interval#top" title="Template:interval">interval</a>}}</code> in the <code>|entryurl=</code> code throwing an error when <code>|2=</code> for the main template is missing, and <code>|entryurl=</code> not being displayed when <code>|1=</code> is missing. I have no clue why the module error didn't show up until now, since neither <code style="white-space:pre-wrap">{{<a href="/wiki/Template:R:cu:ESJS#top" title="Template:R:cu:ESJS">R:cu:ESJS</a>}}</code> nor <code style="white-space:pre-wrap">{{<a href="/wiki/Template:interval#top" title="Template:interval">interval</a>}}</code>/<a href="/wiki/Module:interval" title="Module:interval">Module:interval</a> have been edited recently and I didn't see anything about your edits that should have affected the <code>|entryurl=</code> parameter in <code style="white-space:pre-wrap">{{<a href="/wiki/Template:cite-book#top" title="Template:cite-book">cite book</a>}}</code> as used in this template. I'm obviously missing something. <a href="/wiki/User:Chuck_Entz" title="User:Chuck Entz">Chuck Entz</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Chuck_Entz" title="User talk:Chuck Entz">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Chuck_Entz-20240317221500-JeffDoozan-20240317203800" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:15, 17 March 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-89" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Orthography_invented_for_Wikt?" data-mw-thread-id="h-Orthography_invented_for_Wikt?-20240318020500">Orthography invented for Wikt?</h2>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Theknightwho&action=edit&section=22" title="Edit section: Orthography invented for Wikt?">edit</a>]<div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata">Latest comment: <a href="#c-Kwamikagami-20240318174500-Thadh-20240318082800">8 months ago</a>6 comments3 people in discussion</div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> I deleted the Ubykh entry from <a href="/wiki/%D3%84" title="ӄ">ӄ</a>, thinking it was a hoax, but after seeing other contributions by the author and your (and others') comments on their talk page, reverted myself. But the source does not support the orthography, which appears to have been invented for Wiktionary. It's one thing to give words in an invented orthography, as how else would we represent unwritten languages, but another to claim that a letter is in the alphabet when the language has no alphabet. So, what's happening? <a href="/wiki/User:Kwamikagami" title="User:Kwamikagami">kwami</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Kwamikagami" title="User talk:Kwamikagami">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Kwamikagami-20240318020500-Orthography_invented_for_Wikt?" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:05, 18 March 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-90" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:Thadh" title="User:Thadh">Thadh</a> can comment on this better than I can. However, the Ubykh entry at <a href="/wiki/%D3%84" title="ӄ">ӄ</a> appears to be a one-letter word. Deleting it and then complaining about made-up letter entries is precisely the kind of impulsive behaviour that got your autoconfirmed status stripped. <a href="/wiki/User:Theknightwho" title="User:Theknightwho">Theknightwho</a> (<a class="mw-selflink selflink">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Theknightwho-20240318030200-Kwamikagami-20240318020500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">03:02, 18 March 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-91" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>Ah, yes, that went right over my head. I do wonder why we would present words in invented non-Latin alphabets on Wk-en, but it's not the error I thought it was. <a href="/wiki/User:Kwamikagami" title="User:Kwamikagami">kwami</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Kwamikagami" title="User talk:Kwamikagami">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Kwamikagami-20240318030700-Theknightwho-20240318030200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">03:07, 18 March 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-92" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:Kwamikagami" title="User:Kwamikagami">Kwamikagami</a>: I was not working on this language, so you're better off asking the ones who did, but in case a language is not documented in anything but a linguistic transcription system, I do believe that we should normalise it to something useful. That is no different from normalising languages with inconsistent orthographies, and also something any other dictionary would do as well. Considering Ubykh was only spoken on the territory of Russia, Cyrillic is the orthography most likely used by its people, and so even if this is an "invented" orthography (I don't know about that, it could be based on some already existing one), it would be along the lines what I would propose as well. <a href="/wiki/User:Thadh" title="User:Thadh">Thadh</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Thadh" title="User talk:Thadh">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Thadh-20240318082800-Kwamikagami-20240318030700" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">08:28, 18 March 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-93" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>There are discussions here on changing our orthography and deciding which Cyrillic letters should be used for which sounds. "How about X?"</dd> <dd>Ubykh was only spoken in the territory of Turkey when recorded. The language was unwritten, and apparently unwritten when it was spoken in Russia. If there was any writing in Russia, it was presumably in Arabic script, not Cyrillic. AFAICT, Cyrillic alphabets were not created for W Caucasian languages until the 1930s (it was Latin in the 1920s), and the Ubykh fled en masse to the Ottoman Empire in the 1860s. <a href="/wiki/User:Kwamikagami" title="User:Kwamikagami">kwami</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Kwamikagami" title="User talk:Kwamikagami">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Kwamikagami-20240318174500-Thadh-20240318082800" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:45, 18 March 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-94" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd> <dd>Or rather, it appears to be a one-letter morpheme. AFAIK verbal roots do not occur without affixes; that is, ӄ cannot be a word. I could be wrong about that, but the source does give the lemma as <a href="/w/index.php?title=q-&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="q- (page does not exist)">q-</a>. By analogy with English <a href="/wiki/-ly" title="-ly">-ly</a> and other bound forms, should this be hyphenated as well? <a href="/wiki/User:Kwamikagami" title="User:Kwamikagami">kwami</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Kwamikagami" title="User talk:Kwamikagami">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Kwamikagami-20240318034500-Theknightwho-20240318030200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">03:45, 18 March 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-95" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id=""Use_your_brain"" data-mw-thread-id="h-"Use_your_brain"-20240318031400">"Use your brain"</h2>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Theknightwho&action=edit&section=23" title="Edit section: "Use your brain"">edit</a>]<div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata">Latest comment: <a href="#c-219.91.32.60-20240318031400-"Use_your_brain"">8 months ago</a>1 comment1 person in discussion</div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> I don't appreciate your tone in the edit's comment <a class="external free" href="https://en.wiktionary.org/w/index.php?title=%E7%9B%B4&diff=prev&oldid=78507420">https://en.wiktionary.org/w/index.php?title=%E7%9B%B4&diff=prev&oldid=78507420</a> Thanks ~~ <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/219.91.32.60" title="Special:Contributions/219.91.32.60">219.91.32.60</a> <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-219.91.32.60-20240318031400-"Use_your_brain"" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">03:14, 18 March 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-96" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Module_timeouts_at_噫" data-mw-thread-id="h-Module_timeouts_at_噫-20240320151400">Module timeouts at <a href="/wiki/%E5%99%AB" title="噫">噫</a></h2>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Theknightwho&action=edit&section=24" title="Edit section: Module timeouts at 噫">edit</a>]<div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata">Latest comment: <a href="#c-Theknightwho-20240320173300-Theknightwho-20240320162700">8 months ago</a>3 comments2 people in discussion</div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> This involves <code style="white-space:pre-wrap">{{<a href="/wiki/Template:quote-book#top" title="Template:quote-book">quote-book</a>}}</code>, <code style="white-space:pre-wrap">{{<a href="/wiki/Template:ruby#top" title="Template:ruby">ruby</a>}}</code> and the template parser in the Hanja section of Korean Etymology 1. Commenting out everything but the quotes doesn't fix it, but commenting out different combinations of the quotes and different combinations of <code style="white-space:pre-wrap">{{<a href="/wiki/Template:ruby#top" title="Template:ruby">ruby</a>}}</code> gives wildly different results- either everything takes less than a second or each instance of <code style="white-space:pre-wrap">{{<a href="/wiki/Template:ruby#top" title="Template:ruby">ruby</a>}}</code> takes over a second. It's some kind of interaction, but I haven't had time to track it down. <a href="/wiki/User:Chuck_Entz" title="User:Chuck Entz">Chuck Entz</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Chuck_Entz" title="User talk:Chuck Entz">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Chuck_Entz-20240320151400-Module_timeouts_at_噫" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:14, 20 March 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-97" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:Chuck_Entz" title="User:Chuck Entz">Chuck Entz</a> Thanks - I've narrowed it down, and it's actually <a href="/wiki/Module:template_parser" title="Module:template parser">Module:template parser</a> after I did a major rewrite yesterday in order to speed it up; on the pages I tested (including <a href="/wiki/a" title="a">a</a> and <a href="/wiki/%E4%BA%BA" title="人">人</a>) it's about 50% faster than before. However, there's definitely some kind of bug which the code in the Korean section of that page is triggering; I'm not sure if it's a true infinite loop or some kind of <a href="/wiki/catastrophic_backtracking" title="catastrophic backtracking">catastrophic backtracking</a>, because certain truncated snippets of the page code take way longer than expected, even though they do return before timing out. For comparison, the old version could parse this page hundreds of times without timing out (though still a lot fewer times than I expected, given the length, suggesting there's something weird in the code causing a lot more backtracking than usual).</dd> <dd><div class="paragraphbreak" style="margin-top:0.5em"></div></dd> <dd>The reason the page is throwing errors right at the start is because I recently (before this latest update) added full heading parsing capabilities as well, because that needs to be totally accurate for things like automatic self-links, <a href="/wiki/Category:Entries_with_incorrect_language_header_by_language" title="Category:Entries with incorrect language header by language">Category:Entries with incorrect language header by language</a> etc. to work properly. Templates find out what section they're in by getting a section count from the native parser, and then calling some function which counts all the headers it sees on the page, then cross-comparing. However, doing a naive parse for anything that looks like a heading can result in false positives (and, in very weird situations, false negatives); for example, headers nested inside templates don't iterate the native parser's section count, since the count is done before templates are expanded, which does sometimes occur with pages using <code style="white-space:pre-wrap">{{<a href="/wiki/Template:multitrans#top" title="Template:multitrans">multitrans</a>}}</code>. The new function in <a href="/wiki/Module:template_parser" title="Module:template parser">Module:template parser</a> does the count properly, since the native parser also happens to parse headings and templates at the same time. (Incidentally, this is why section edit buttons don't appear next to headings inside templates.)</dd> <dd><div class="paragraphbreak" style="margin-top:0.5em"></div></dd> <dd>To avoid avoid massive repetition of work, the section counts for every L2 are calculated by <a href="/wiki/Module:headword/data" title="Module:headword/data">Module:headword/data</a> and stored for other modules to access, which means that the template parser is now being called on basically every page. Thankfully, whatever code on <a href="/wiki/%E5%99%AB" title="噫">噫</a> which is triggering this bug must be quite rare. <a href="/wiki/User:Theknightwho" title="User:Theknightwho">Theknightwho</a> (<a class="mw-selflink selflink">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Theknightwho-20240320162700-Chuck_Entz-20240320151400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:27, 20 March 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-98" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:Chuck_Entz" title="User:Chuck Entz">Chuck Entz</a> I've fixed the bug, which related to instances of <code>[[[</code> appearing on the page, which occurs in some of the rubytext code; each time it occurred, the problem would get exponentially worse. I'm not sure what was causing the old version to be so slow, but the new version is about 10 times faster (which is the expected time for a page of that length). <a href="/wiki/User:Theknightwho" title="User:Theknightwho">Theknightwho</a> (<a class="mw-selflink selflink">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Theknightwho-20240320173300-Theknightwho-20240320162700" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:33, 20 March 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-99" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id=""you_couldn't_even_be_bothered_to_correct_the_lowercase_form"" data-mw-thread-id="h-"you_couldn't_even_be_bothered_to_correct_the_lowercase_form"-20240321200200">"you couldn't even be bothered to correct the lowercase form"</h2>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Theknightwho&action=edit&section=25" title="Edit section: "you couldn't even be bothered to correct the lowercase form"">edit</a>]<div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata">Latest comment: <a href="#c-Kwamikagami-20240321200200-"you_couldn't_even_be_bothered_to_correct_the_lowercase_form"">8 months ago</a>1 comment1 person in discussion</div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <Ꜹ> is the usual capital form of <ꜷ>, so it's not as simple as blindly following Unicode. <a href="/wiki/User:Kwamikagami" title="User:Kwamikagami">kwami</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Kwamikagami" title="User talk:Kwamikagami">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Kwamikagami-20240321200200-"you_couldn't_even_be_bothered_to_correct_the_lowercase_form"" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:02, 21 March 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-100" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="template_parser_error" data-mw-thread-id="h-template_parser_error-20240322032700">template parser error</h2>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Theknightwho&action=edit&section=26" title="Edit section: template parser error">edit</a>]<div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata">Latest comment: <a href="#c-Theknightwho-20240322155700-Benwing2-20240322032700">8 months ago</a>2 comments2 people in discussion</div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> Hi, please take a look at <a href="/wiki/Category:E" class="mw-redirect" title="Category:E">CAT:E</a>; there are 38 errors currently and many of the refer to an undefined __pairs() function. <a href="/wiki/User:Benwing2" title="User:Benwing2">Benwing2</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Benwing2" title="User talk:Benwing2">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Benwing2-20240322032700-template_parser_error" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">03:27, 22 March 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-101" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:Benwing2" title="User:Benwing2">Benwing2</a> Thanks - fixed. To reduce traversal time, the new version of the <code style="white-space:pre-wrap;" class="mw-highlight mw-highlight-lang-lua mw-content-ltr" dir="ltr">Wikitext:new()</code> method will try to avoid generating wikitext nodes where they're not necessary, since they're only needed as containers for other nodes: e.g. the raw input <code style="white-space:pre-wrap;" class="mw-highlight mw-highlight-lang-lua mw-content-ltr" dir="ltr">"foo{{bar}}baz"</code> becomes the wikitext node <code style="white-space:pre-wrap;" class="mw-highlight mw-highlight-lang-lua mw-content-ltr" dir="ltr">{ "foo", {{bar}}, "baz" }</code>, where <code style="white-space:pre-wrap;" class="mw-highlight mw-highlight-lang-lua mw-content-ltr" dir="ltr">{{bar}}</code> is a template node. It does this in two ways: firstly, by checking that a container is actually needed (e.g. if the input stack layer is <code style="white-space:pre-wrap;" class="mw-highlight mw-highlight-lang-lua mw-content-ltr" dir="ltr">{ "foo" }</code> or <code style="white-space:pre-wrap;" class="mw-highlight mw-highlight-lang-lua mw-content-ltr" dir="ltr">{ {{foo}} }</code>, it simply outputs whatever's at index 1), and then it calls <code style="white-space:pre-wrap;" class="mw-highlight mw-highlight-lang-lua mw-content-ltr" dir="ltr">pcall(table.concat, layer)</code>, which converts inputs like <code style="white-space:pre-wrap;" class="mw-highlight mw-highlight-lang-lua mw-content-ltr" dir="ltr">{ "foo", "bar", "baz" }</code> to <code style="white-space:pre-wrap;" class="mw-highlight mw-highlight-lang-lua mw-content-ltr" dir="ltr">"foobarbaz"</code>.</dd> <dd><div class="paragraphbreak" style="margin-top:0.5em"></div></dd> <dd><code style="white-space:pre-wrap;" class="mw-highlight mw-highlight-lang-lua mw-content-ltr" dir="ltr">Wikitext:new()</code> is also called on the final output from the parse, but this was causing problems with plain inputs since they were getting converted to strings, which the iterator functions weren't expecting. To get around this, I've added a <code>force_node</code> parameter to <code style="white-space:pre-wrap;" class="mw-highlight mw-highlight-lang-lua mw-content-ltr" dir="ltr">Wikitext:new()</code> that causes the output to be wrapped in a Wikitext node if it wouldn't otherwise have been a node (e.g. <code style="white-space:pre-wrap;" class="mw-highlight mw-highlight-lang-lua mw-content-ltr" dir="ltr">{ "foo", "bar", "baz" }</code> becomes <code style="white-space:pre-wrap;" class="mw-highlight mw-highlight-lang-lua mw-content-ltr" dir="ltr">{ "foobarbaz" }</code>, but <code style="white-space:pre-wrap;" class="mw-highlight mw-highlight-lang-lua mw-content-ltr" dir="ltr">{ {{foo}} }</code> still becomes <code style="white-space:pre-wrap;" class="mw-highlight mw-highlight-lang-lua mw-content-ltr" dir="ltr">{{foo}}</code>).</dd> <dd><div class="paragraphbreak" style="margin-top:0.5em"></div></dd> <dd>As a side point, I'm going to see if it's faster to compress inputs like <code style="white-space:pre-wrap;" class="mw-highlight mw-highlight-lang-lua mw-content-ltr" dir="ltr">{ "foo", "bar", {{baz}} }</code> to <code style="white-space:pre-wrap;" class="mw-highlight mw-highlight-lang-lua mw-content-ltr" dir="ltr">{ "foobar", {{baz}} }</code>, but I suspect it'll be a false economy. <a href="/wiki/User:Theknightwho" title="User:Theknightwho">Theknightwho</a> (<a class="mw-selflink selflink">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Theknightwho-20240322155700-Benwing2-20240322032700" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:57, 22 March 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-102" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Lua_errors" data-mw-thread-id="h-Lua_errors-20240326073400">Lua errors</h2>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Theknightwho&action=edit&section=27" title="Edit section: Lua errors">edit</a>]<div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata">Latest comment: <a href="#c-17lcxdudu-20240326103300-17lcxdudu-20240326073400">8 months ago</a>2 comments1 person in discussion</div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> Errors appear in <code style="white-space:pre-wrap">{{<a href="/wiki/Template:link#top" title="Template:link">l</a>|*|tr=}}</code>. Something like Lua error in Module:headword/data at <a href="/wiki/Module:headword/data#L-1134" title="Module:headword/data">line 1134</a>: table index is nil Seemly caused by recent edits in <a href="/wiki/Module:headword" title="Module:headword">Module:headword</a> <a href="/wiki/User:17lcxdudu" title="User:17lcxdudu">17lcxdudu</a> (<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:17lcxdudu&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User talk:17lcxdudu (page does not exist)">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-17lcxdudu-20240326073400-Lua_errors" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">07:34, 26 March 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-103" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>Seemly be solved now. <a href="/wiki/User:17lcxdudu" title="User:17lcxdudu">17lcxdudu</a> (<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:17lcxdudu&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User talk:17lcxdudu (page does not exist)">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-17lcxdudu-20240326103300-17lcxdudu-20240326073400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">10:33, 26 March 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-104" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Template_parser_errors" data-mw-thread-id="h-Template_parser_errors-20240328223500">Template parser errors</h2>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Theknightwho&action=edit&section=28" title="Edit section: Template parser errors">edit</a>]<div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata">Latest comment: <a href="#c-Theknightwho-20240328224300-Benwing2-20240328223500">7 months ago</a>2 comments2 people in discussion</div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> There are some errors now in Wiktionary space reading e.g. * Lua error in Module:template_parser at <a href="/wiki/Module:template_parser#L-54" title="Module:template parser">line 54</a>: 'for' limit must be a number. <a href="/wiki/User:Benwing2" title="User:Benwing2">Benwing2</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Benwing2" title="User talk:Benwing2">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Benwing2-20240328223500-Template_parser_errors" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:35, 28 March 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-105" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:Benwing2" title="User:Benwing2">Benwing2</a> Thanks - I've reverted the change which caused this, since was just a minor time-saving measure anyway. <a href="/wiki/User:Theknightwho" title="User:Theknightwho">Theknightwho</a> (<a class="mw-selflink selflink">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Theknightwho-20240328224300-Benwing2-20240328223500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:43, 28 March 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-106" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="ancestor_vs._parent_terminology" data-mw-thread-id="h-ancestor_vs._parent_terminology-20240405084400">ancestor vs. parent terminology</h2>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Theknightwho&action=edit&section=29" title="Edit section: ancestor vs. parent terminology">edit</a>]<div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata">Latest comment: <a href="#c-Benwing2-20240411234800--sche-20240411211200">7 months ago</a>8 comments2 people in discussion</div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> Now that we're renaming "etymology-only language" to "language variety" (and similarly, "etymology-only family" will become "family variety"), I think it's time to revisit the terms "parent" and "ancestor". These terms are confusing to me because normally in computer science, an "ancestor" is simply an nth level parent where n >= 1, i.e. it could be a parent, parent's parent, etc. With the current definitions of parent and ancestor, however, there's no clear way to refer to the nth-level parent or to distinguish first-level ancestor from nth-level ancestor. I propose renaming these terms: <ol><li>parent -> containment parent</li> <li>ancestor -> inheritance parent</li></ol> Corrrespondingly, ancestor becomes either containment ancestor or inheritance ancestor. IMO these terms clarify the conceptual difference between the current "parent" (expresses a containment relationship, i.e. "Y is X's parent" means "X is-a Y") and "ancestor" (expresses an inheritance relationship, i.e. "Y is X's ancestor" means "X inherits terms from Y", either directly or through a chain, depending on whether a first-level or nth-level "ancestor" is intended). I frequently get confused about them given the current names (and I imagine I'm not the only one). Thoughts? Another way to think about it is that "containment" is a spatial relationship while "inheritance" is a temporal relationship. <a href="/wiki/User:Benwing2" title="User:Benwing2">Benwing2</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Benwing2" title="User talk:Benwing2">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Benwing2-20240405084400-ancestor_vs._parent_terminology" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">08:44, 5 April 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-107" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>For my part, I would find "containment parent" and "inheritance parent" more confusing than "parent" and "ancestor". Maybe "containment parent" is a phrase that makes sense to programmers?—though when I google it, the results even on sites about code are like <code>{ containment: "parent" }</code>, collocations of the two words rather than use of "containment parent"—but I would love to know if it makes sense to anyone else. Would it work to just rename <a href="/wiki/Module:etymology_languages/data" title="Module:etymology languages/data">Module:etymology languages/data</a>'s "parent" field to something like "IsAVarietyOf", so it's clearly different from "ancestor"? (Would I be right to infer that "parent" is the more problematic of the two names? Latin really is an "ancestor" of French, but it's perhaps confusing to call Latin, the L2 that includes New Latin, the "parent" of Old Latin; Latin is just the thing Old Latin is a variety of.) <a href="/wiki/User:-sche" title="User:-sche">- -sche</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:-sche" title="User talk:-sche">(discuss)</a> <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c--sche-20240407060000-Benwing2-20240405084400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">06:00, 7 April 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-108" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:-sche" title="User:-sche">-sche</a> Yeah I have made up the term "containment parent" as an attempt to convey that's it's (a) in a containment ("is-a") relationship, and (b) a direct parent (vs. an indirect or any-level parent). I would somewhat agree that "parent" is maybe the more problematic, but "ancestor" is also problematic in that there's then no way to distinguish an nth-level "parent" or "ancestor" from a single-level one. But I think if we can ditch the term "parent" it will be a good first start. I think "is-a-variety-of" (in whatever casing style), or just "is-a", will work in place of "parent", and maybe we use "direct" (or "single-level") vs. "any-level" to distinguish what in computer science terminology are normally termed "parent" and "ancestor" vis-a-vis trees. Then <code style="white-space:pre-wrap;" class="mw-highlight mw-highlight-lang-text mw-content-ltr" dir="ltr">hasParent</code> becomes <code style="white-space:pre-wrap;" class="mw-highlight mw-highlight-lang-text mw-content-ltr" dir="ltr">isAVarietyOf</code> (at any level, unless a flag <code style="white-space:pre-wrap;" class="mw-highlight mw-highlight-lang-text mw-content-ltr" dir="ltr">direct</code>/<code style="white-space:pre-wrap;" class="mw-highlight mw-highlight-lang-text mw-content-ltr" dir="ltr">singleLevel</code> is passed in), and similarly <code style="white-space:pre-wrap;" class="mw-highlight mw-highlight-lang-text mw-content-ltr" dir="ltr">hasChild</code> becomes <code style="white-space:pre-wrap;" class="mw-highlight mw-highlight-lang-text mw-content-ltr" dir="ltr">hasVariety</code>, etc. <a href="/wiki/User:Benwing2" title="User:Benwing2">Benwing2</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Benwing2" title="User talk:Benwing2">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Benwing2-20240407062100--sche-20240407060000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">06:21, 7 April 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-109" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>Hmm, what are the situations where we need a way to refer to the 1st vs 2nd vs 4th level ancestor, that "containment..." vs "inheritance..." would be more helpful with than just calling them "1st level ancestor", "2nd level ancestor", etc (or "ancestor-lvl-1" or whatever other name/casing)? <a href="/wiki/User:-sche" title="User:-sche">- -sche</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:-sche" title="User talk:-sche">(discuss)</a> <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c--sche-20240407163400-Benwing2-20240407062100" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:34, 7 April 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-110" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:-sche" title="User:-sche">-sche</a> Maybe my last response wasn't phrased well, as I'm proposing using your terminology of essentially "is-a-variety-of" and "ancestor" rather than "containment"/"inheritance". <a href="/wiki/User:Benwing2" title="User:Benwing2">Benwing2</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Benwing2" title="User talk:Benwing2">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Benwing2-20240407191800--sche-20240407163400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:18, 7 April 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-111" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:-sche" title="User:-sche">-sche</a> What do you think of replacing "parent" with "container" rather than "isAVarietyOf" or similar? Then we have "containers" and "ancestors" which hopefully is clear enough. <a href="/wiki/User:Benwing2" title="User:Benwing2">Benwing2</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Benwing2" title="User talk:Benwing2">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Benwing2-20240411091300-Benwing2-20240407191800" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">09:13, 11 April 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-112" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>It still seems a little odd to call e.g. Latin a "container", but it's not being used in anything reader-facing, yes? so I guess it's fine, it's intelligible what it means. <a href="/wiki/User:-sche" title="User:-sche">- -sche</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:-sche" title="User talk:-sche">(discuss)</a> <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c--sche-20240411211200-Benwing2-20240411091300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:12, 11 April 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-113" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:-sche" title="User:-sche">-sche</a> Yeah I've sort of thought better of this. Maybe "isAVarietyOf" is fine. <a href="/wiki/User:Theknightwho" title="User:Theknightwho">User:Theknightwho</a> what do you think? <a href="/wiki/User:Benwing2" title="User:Benwing2">Benwing2</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Benwing2" title="User talk:Benwing2">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Benwing2-20240411234800--sche-20240411211200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:48, 11 April 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-114" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Template_parser_fails_in_CAT:E" data-mw-thread-id="h-Template_parser_fails_in_CAT:E-20240406180500">Template parser fails in <a href="/wiki/Category:E" class="mw-redirect" title="Category:E">CAT:E</a></h2>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Theknightwho&action=edit&section=30" title="Edit section: Template parser fails in CAT:E">edit</a>]<div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata">Latest comment: <a href="#c-Benwing2-20240407051400-Theknightwho-20240406181500">7 months ago</a>3 comments3 people in discussion</div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> I've only been doing spot-checks so far, but it looks like all the invocations of <a href="/wiki/Module:zlw-lch-headword" title="Module:zlw-lch-headword">Module:zlw-lch-headword</a> and <a href="/wiki/Module:pt-headword" title="Module:pt-headword">Module:pt-headword</a> outside of mainspace are throwing errors,though most of them haven't hit the <a href="/wiki/Category:E" class="mw-redirect" title="Category:E">CAT:E</a> page itself yet. The usual "string expected, got nil" stuff. <a href="/wiki/User:Chuck_Entz" title="User:Chuck Entz">Chuck Entz</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Chuck_Entz" title="User talk:Chuck Entz">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Chuck_Entz-20240406180500-Template_parser_fails_in_CAT:E" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:05, 6 April 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-115" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:Chuck_Entz" title="User:Chuck Entz">Chuck Entz</a> The error here lies somewhere in <a href="/wiki/Module:headword/page" title="Module:headword/page">Module:headword/page</a>, since it's feeding <code style="white-space:pre-wrap;" class="mw-highlight mw-highlight-lang-lua mw-content-ltr" dir="ltr">nil</code> into the template parser. @<a href="/wiki/User:Benwing2" title="User:Benwing2">Benwing2</a> may know better than me why that's happening, as he recently split out whole-page processing from <a href="/wiki/Module:headword/data" title="Module:headword/data">Module:headword/data</a>. I'll see what I can do, though. <a href="/wiki/User:Theknightwho" title="User:Theknightwho">Theknightwho</a> (<a class="mw-selflink selflink">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Theknightwho-20240406181500-Chuck_Entz-20240406180500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:15, 6 April 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-116" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:Chuck_Entz" title="User:Chuck Entz">Chuck Entz</a> I added a better error in <a href="/wiki/Module:headword/page" title="Module:headword/page">Module:headword/page</a>, but this really needs fixing in a bunch of headword modules (almost all written by me) because I've been sloppy in handling the distinction between subpage names, pagenames without namespace prefixes, and full pagenames with namespace prefixes. The reason this doesn't occur on mainspace pages is that generally all three of the preceding are the same for them. An additional complication arises from unsupported titles. I put in a preliminary fix for the Lechitic, Portuguese and French headword modules but there are many more, and the fixes I put in for those three modules need to be redone. I will see if within the next day or so I can come up with the proper solution and then implement this for at least the 10 most major headword modules. Yet another reason why we really need a headword module library/framework, so when we discover issues like this we don't have to repeat the fix across 100 modules, each slightly different (you are in a maze of twisty little passages, all alike ...). But such a beast will be tricky to design because there are so many variations in the way existing headword modules work (some of which can and should be harmonized but some of which are due to language-specific differences). <a href="/wiki/User:Benwing2" title="User:Benwing2">Benwing2</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Benwing2" title="User talk:Benwing2">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Benwing2-20240407051400-Theknightwho-20240406181500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">05:14, 7 April 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-117" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="bug_in_Module:string" data-mw-thread-id="h-bug_in_Module:string-20240411234700">bug in <a href="/wiki/Module:string" title="Module:string">Module:string</a></h2>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Theknightwho&action=edit&section=31" title="Edit section: bug in Module:string">edit</a>]<div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata">Latest comment: <a href="#c-Theknightwho-20240412082200-Benwing2-20240412031600">7 months ago</a>3 comments2 people in discussion</div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> Your recent change to <a href="/wiki/Module:string" title="Module:string">Module:string</a> has caused some issues, e.g. in <a href="/wiki/Federwei%C3%9Fer" title="Federweißer">Federweißer</a>, where <code style="white-space:pre-wrap">{{<a href="/w/index.php?title=Template:alt-de-ch&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Template:alt-de-ch (page does not exist)">alt-de-ch</a>}}</code> is throwing an error that it didn't use to. <a href="/wiki/User:Benwing2" title="User:Benwing2">Benwing2</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Benwing2" title="User talk:Benwing2">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Benwing2-20240411234700-bug_in_Module:string" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:47, 11 April 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-118" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>FYI, this diff <a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wiktionary.org/w/index.php?title=Module:string&diff=prev&oldid=78841793">[1]</a> caused the error. <a href="/wiki/User:Benwing2" title="User:Benwing2">Benwing2</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Benwing2" title="User talk:Benwing2">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Benwing2-20240412031600-Benwing2-20240411234700" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">03:16, 12 April 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-119" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:Benwing2" title="User:Benwing2">Benwing2</a> My bad - I'd put <code style="white-space:pre-wrap;" class="mw-highlight mw-highlight-lang-lua mw-content-ltr" dir="ltr">replacement_escape(pattern)</code> instead of <code style="white-space:pre-wrap;" class="mw-highlight mw-highlight-lang-lua mw-content-ltr" dir="ltr">replacement_escape(replace)</code>... <a href="/wiki/User:Theknightwho" title="User:Theknightwho">Theknightwho</a> (<a class="mw-selflink selflink">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Theknightwho-20240412082200-Benwing2-20240412031600" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">08:22, 12 April 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-120" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="recent_breakages" data-mw-thread-id="h-recent_breakages-20240421012600">recent breakages</h2>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Theknightwho&action=edit&section=32" title="Edit section: recent breakages">edit</a>]<div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata">Latest comment: <a href="#c-Theknightwho-20240422131300-Benwing2-20240422061600">7 months ago</a>8 comments2 people in discussion</div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> One of your recent changes has broken <code style="white-space:pre-wrap">{{<a href="https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Scribunto#Usage" class="extiw" title="mw:Extension:Scribunto">#invoke</a>:<a href="/wiki/Module:User:MewBot#top" title="Module:User:MewBot">User:MewBot</a>|getLanguageData}}</code>. I get this error from my Python script: <dl><dd><code>Lua error in Module:string_utilities at [[Module:string_utilities#L-621|line 621]]: bad argument #1 to '_find' (string expected, got table)</code>. This is coming from <code style="white-space:pre-wrap;" class="mw-highlight mw-highlight-lang-text mw-content-ltr" dir="ltr">getScriptCodes</code> in <a href="/wiki/Module:languages" title="Module:languages">Module:languages</a>. Can you take a look? <a href="/wiki/User:Benwing2" title="User:Benwing2">Benwing2</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Benwing2" title="User talk:Benwing2">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Benwing2-20240421012600-recent_breakages" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:26, 21 April 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-121" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd></dl> <dl><dd>Also <a href="/wiki/Module:data_consistency_check" title="Module:data consistency check">Module:data consistency check</a> has broken in that it doesn't know about Hants. <a href="/wiki/User:Benwing2" title="User:Benwing2">Benwing2</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Benwing2" title="User talk:Benwing2">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Benwing2-20240421012900-Benwing2-20240421012600" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:29, 21 April 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-122" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd> <dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:Benwing2" title="User:Benwing2">Benwing2</a> Seems to be something to do with the other special code <code>"All"</code> - I'll have a look. <a href="/wiki/User:Theknightwho" title="User:Theknightwho">Theknightwho</a> (<a class="mw-selflink selflink">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Theknightwho-20240421013800-Benwing2-20240421012600" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:38, 21 April 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-123" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:Benwing2" title="User:Benwing2">Benwing2</a> Should be fixed: <a href="/wiki/Module:languages/data/all" title="Module:languages/data/all">Module:languages/data/all</a> had special handling of <code>"All"</code> so that it returned a table with every script code, but I changed <a href="/wiki/Module:languages" title="Module:languages">Module:languages</a> so that it only expects a string from the raw data. I didn't notice it because Module:languages/data/all isn't used in mainspace. <a href="/wiki/User:Theknightwho" title="User:Theknightwho">Theknightwho</a> (<a class="mw-selflink selflink">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Theknightwho-20240421014700-Theknightwho-20240421013800" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:47, 21 April 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-124" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>Thanks! <a href="/wiki/User:Benwing2" title="User:Benwing2">Benwing2</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Benwing2" title="User talk:Benwing2">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Benwing2-20240421014900-Theknightwho-20240421014700" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:49, 21 April 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-125" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>Just FYI, it broke again with <code style="white-space:pre-wrap;" class="mw-highlight mw-highlight-lang-text mw-content-ltr" dir="ltr">Lua error in Module:scripts at [[Module:scripts#L-252|line 252]]: bad argument #1 to 'pairs' (table expected, got nil)</code>. <a href="/wiki/User:Benwing2" title="User:Benwing2">Benwing2</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Benwing2" title="User talk:Benwing2">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Benwing2-20240422061300-Benwing2-20240421014900" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">06:13, 22 April 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-126" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>This time coming from <code style="white-space:pre-wrap">{{<a href="https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Scribunto#Usage" class="extiw" title="mw:Extension:Scribunto">#invoke</a>:<a href="/wiki/Module:User:MewBot#top" title="Module:User:MewBot">User:MewBot</a>|getScriptData}}</code>. <a href="/wiki/User:Benwing2" title="User:Benwing2">Benwing2</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Benwing2" title="User talk:Benwing2">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Benwing2-20240422061600-Benwing2-20240422061300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">06:16, 22 April 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-127" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:Benwing2" title="User:Benwing2">Benwing2</a> Thanks for fixing this.</dd> <dd><div class="paragraphbreak" style="margin-top:0.5em"></div></dd> <dd>This reminds me of a change I'd like to make to language/script/family objects, which is to replace some of the methods with literal data in cases where the result is simply a string, as it adds unnecessary overhead that starts to become noticeable in loops (e.g. <code style="white-space:pre-wrap;" class="mw-highlight mw-highlight-lang-lua mw-content-ltr" dir="ltr">lang:getCode()</code> is about 7 times slower than simply accessing <code style="white-space:pre-wrap;" class="mw-highlight mw-highlight-lang-lua mw-content-ltr" dir="ltr">lang._code</code>, and I don't see any ways to optimise it). Even accessing via a metamethod is about twice as slow, which increases to 25 times as slow when comparing <code style="white-space:pre-wrap;" class="mw-highlight mw-highlight-lang-lua mw-content-ltr" dir="ltr">require</code> to <code style="white-space:pre-wrap;" class="mw-highlight mw-highlight-lang-lua mw-content-ltr" dir="ltr">mw.loadData</code>. Obviously this only starts to make a difference across hundreds of thousands/millions of calls, but you reach that pretty quickly with anything that iterates over large amounts of data.</dd> <dd><div class="paragraphbreak" style="margin-top:0.5em"></div></dd> <dd>I assume the logic of the current setup is to ensure that the data remains immutable by hiding where it's really stored, but we don't seem to have any issues with title or frame objects, even though you could trash a frame object by changing <code style="white-space:pre-wrap;" class="mw-highlight mw-highlight-lang-lua mw-content-ltr" dir="ltr">frame.args</code> or whatever. <a href="/wiki/User:Theknightwho" title="User:Theknightwho">Theknightwho</a> (<a class="mw-selflink selflink">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Theknightwho-20240422131300-Benwing2-20240422061600" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">13:13, 22 April 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-128" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Thanks_for_the_help" data-mw-thread-id="h-Thanks_for_the_help-20240421024100">Thanks for the help</h2>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Theknightwho&action=edit&section=33" title="Edit section: Thanks for the help">edit</a>]<div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata">Latest comment: <a href="#c-Theknightwho-20240421024600-BillHPike-20240421024100">7 months ago</a>2 comments2 people in discussion</div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> Thanks for cleaning up my new entries. I appreciate the help learning the local conventions. <a href="/wiki/User:BillHPike" title="User:BillHPike">BillHPike</a> (<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:BillHPike&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User talk:BillHPike (page does not exist)">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-BillHPike-20240421024100-Thanks_for_the_help" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:41, 21 April 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-129" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:BillHPike" title="User:BillHPike">BillHPike</a> No problem - let me know if you need help with anything. <a href="/wiki/User:Theknightwho" title="User:Theknightwho">Theknightwho</a> (<a class="mw-selflink selflink">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Theknightwho-20240421024600-BillHPike-20240421024100" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:46, 21 April 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-130" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="affix_breakage" data-mw-thread-id="h-affix_breakage-20240422062600">affix breakage</h2>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Theknightwho&action=edit&section=34" title="Edit section: affix breakage">edit</a>]<div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata">Latest comment: <a href="#c-Theknightwho-20240422134100-Benwing2-20240422062600">7 months ago</a>2 comments2 people in discussion</div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> OK, I fixed the issue with <a href="/wiki/Module:scripts" title="Module:scripts">Module:scripts</a> but there's breakage in <a href="/wiki/Module:affix" title="Module:affix">Module:affix</a> due to your recent changes. See for example <a href="/wiki/%D0%BA%D0%B5%D0%BC%D0%B8%D1%82%D0%BC%D0%B5" title="кемитме">кемитме</a>, where the use of an embedded link is causing the page to get added to <a href="/w/index.php?title=Category:Kyrgyz_terms_prefixed_with_Unsupported_titles/%D0%BA%D0%B5%D0%BC%D0%B8%D1%82%D2%AF%D2%AF%60vert%60%D0%BA%D0%B5%D0%BC%D0%B8%D1%82-&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category:Kyrgyz terms prefixed with Unsupported titles/кемитүү`vert`кемит- (page does not exist)">Category:Kyrgyz terms prefixed with Unsupported titles/кемитүү`vert`кемит-</a>. You might want to add a check in the category-formatting code for unsupported titles showing up in categories, because this is essentially never correct; if you throw an error in that case, you'll discover bugs related to insufficiently handled embedded links more quickly. <a href="/wiki/User:Benwing2" title="User:Benwing2">Benwing2</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Benwing2" title="User talk:Benwing2">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Benwing2-20240422062600-affix_breakage" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">06:26, 22 April 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-131" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:Benwing2" title="User:Benwing2">Benwing2</a> Thanks - this was actually caused by my changes to <code style="white-space:pre-wrap;" class="mw-highlight mw-highlight-lang-lua mw-content-ltr" dir="ltr">export.get_fragment</code> in <a href="/wiki/Module:links" title="Module:links">Module:links</a> a few days ago: I separated out most of the work into a local function, with the externally-callable function now only doing a pre-screen for embedded links before it calls the local one (since that check isn't necessary when calling <code style="white-space:pre-wrap;" class="mw-highlight mw-highlight-lang-lua mw-content-ltr" dir="ltr">get_fragment</code> locally). As part of that, I made the check a bit smarter so that it removes redundant links, but I must have forgotten about piped links because <code style="white-space:pre-wrap;" class="mw-highlight mw-highlight-lang-lua mw-content-ltr" dir="ltr">"[[кемитүү|кемит-]]"</code> was being converted to <code style="white-space:pre-wrap;" class="mw-highlight mw-highlight-lang-lua mw-content-ltr" dir="ltr">"кемитүү|кемит-"</code>, so it was as though the input was <code style="white-space:pre-wrap;" class="mw-highlight mw-highlight-lang-text mw-content-ltr" dir="ltr">{{affix|ky|кемитүү{{!}}кемит-|-ма|alt2=-ме|t1=to add}}</code>. <a href="/wiki/User:Theknightwho" title="User:Theknightwho">Theknightwho</a> (<a class="mw-selflink selflink">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Theknightwho-20240422134100-Benwing2-20240422062600" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">13:41, 22 April 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-132" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="your_snarky_comments" data-mw-thread-id="h-your_snarky_comments-20240422121300">your snarky comments</h2>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Theknightwho&action=edit&section=35" title="Edit section: your snarky comments">edit</a>]<div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata">Latest comment: <a href="#c-Kwamikagami-20240423113900-Theknightwho-20240423112600">7 months ago</a>14 comments3 people in discussion</div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> Why don't you make an effort so the rest of us have a guideline to follow? I did make an effort there, but couldn't figure out how to format it; rather than formatting it badly, I left it unformatted. Or do you really prefer corrupted entries? Where is our MOS on how to format this stuff? <a href="/wiki/User:Kwamikagami" title="User:Kwamikagami">kwami</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Kwamikagami" title="User talk:Kwamikagami">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Kwamikagami-20240422121300-your_snarky_comments" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">12:13, 22 April 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-133" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> For <a href="/wiki/me" title="me">me</a>, per J3133's demand, I moved the quote to its own section (since it doesn't illustrate 'me' as a subject). No idea what the definition should be, though, since it's a fixed phrase, so I tagged it as definition needed. <a href="/wiki/User:Kwamikagami" title="User:Kwamikagami">kwami</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Kwamikagami" title="User talk:Kwamikagami">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Kwamikagami-20240422122000-your_snarky_comments" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">12:20, 22 April 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-134" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:Kwamikagami" title="User:Kwamikagami">Kwamikagami</a> I would have more sympathy if this was a problem that a lot of long-term users experience, but it isn't; you keep leaving problems that other users have to clear up over and over, and it is extremely tiresome to deal with because I see no indication that it's ever going to improve. Even if you were still doing it, I would mind a lot less if you showed some appreciation for why it's a problem.</dd> <dd><div class="paragraphbreak" style="margin-top:0.5em"></div></dd> <dd>If you don't know how to do something, you know about the <a href="/wiki/Wiktionary:Information_desk" title="Wiktionary:Information desk">WT:Information desk</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wiktionary:Beer_parlour" title="Wiktionary:Beer parlour">WT:Beer parlour</a> and <a href="/wiki/Wiktionary:Grease_pit" title="Wiktionary:Grease pit">WT:Grease pit</a>, where questions are regularly answered every day. You could also add <code style="white-space:pre-wrap">{{<a href="/wiki/Template:attention#top" title="Template:attention">attention</a>|langcode}}</code>, which is invisible but categorises the entry in (e.g.) <a href="/wiki/Category:Requests_for_attention_concerning_Translingual" title="Category:Requests for attention concerning Translingual">Category:Requests for attention concerning Translingual</a>, though YMMV on it being dealt with, as some languages are patrolled a lot more often than others. If it's a larger issue, there is also <code style="white-space:pre-wrap">{{<a href="/wiki/Template:rfc#top" title="Template:rfc">rfc</a>|langcode|optional reason}}</code> (Requests for Cleanup), which should go under the L2 header (or sometimes the relevant etymology heading if it's a long entry), which adds a banner requesting clean-up and categorises the entry in (e.g.) <a href="/wiki/Category:Requests_for_cleanup_in_Translingual_entries" title="Category:Requests for cleanup in Translingual entries">Category:Requests for cleanup in Translingual entries</a>. There's also <code style="white-space:pre-wrap">{{<a href="/wiki/Template:rfc-sense#top" title="Template:rfc-sense">rfc-sense</a>|langcode}}</code>, which is used when you only want to tag a specific sense: it adds the category, but it uses inline formatting instead of the banner. You could also list it at <a href="/wiki/Wiktionary:Requests_for_cleanup" title="Wiktionary:Requests for cleanup">WT:Requests for cleanup</a>, but it's probably not a good idea to do that if the problem is something you've just added yourself. <a href="/wiki/User:Theknightwho" title="User:Theknightwho">Theknightwho</a> (<a class="mw-selflink selflink">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Theknightwho-20240422124100-Kwamikagami-20240422122000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">12:41, 22 April 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-135" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd><a href="/wiki/Wiktionary:Todo/Lists/Template_language_code_does_not_match_header_(sorted_by_language)#Assiniboine_(asb)" title="Wiktionary:Todo/Lists/Template language code does not match header (sorted by language)">Wiktionary:Todo/Lists/Template language code does not match header (sorted by language)#Assiniboine (asb)</a> <a href="/wiki/User:Chuck_Entz" title="User:Chuck Entz">Chuck Entz</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Chuck_Entz" title="User talk:Chuck Entz">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Chuck_Entz-20240422133400-Theknightwho-20240422124100" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">13:34, 22 April 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-136" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>I'll clean that up. <a href="/wiki/User:Kwamikagami" title="User:Kwamikagami">kwami</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Kwamikagami" title="User talk:Kwamikagami">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Kwamikagami-20240422134100-Chuck_Entz-20240422133400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">13:41, 22 April 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-137" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd></dl></dd> <dd>But also <a href="/wiki/Wiktionary:Christmas_Competition_2017" title="Wiktionary:Christmas Competition 2017">Wiktionary:Christmas Competition 2017</a>. <a href="/wiki/User:Chuck_Entz" title="User:Chuck Entz">Chuck Entz</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Chuck_Entz" title="User talk:Chuck Entz">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Chuck_Entz-20240422133700-Theknightwho-20240422124100" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">13:37, 22 April 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-138" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:Chuck_Entz" title="User:Chuck Entz">Chuck Entz</a> I'll deal with this. It's something to do with my recent changes to <code style="white-space:pre-wrap;" class="mw-highlight mw-highlight-lang-lua mw-content-ltr" dir="ltr">:findBestScript()</code> in <a href="/wiki/Module:languages" title="Module:languages">Module:languages</a>; the only change I made that could have affected outputs was that it now only removes ASCII punctuation before doing the count, instead of everything categorised as punctuation by Unicode, since some of them are script-specific. It's not clear how that could be causing issues here, but it's got to be something to do with ‘ in "c‘k‘seir", which is non-ASCII punctuation. <a href="/wiki/User:Theknightwho" title="User:Theknightwho">Theknightwho</a> (<a class="mw-selflink selflink">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Theknightwho-20240422134800-Chuck_Entz-20240422133700" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">13:48, 22 April 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-139" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>Turns out this was a completely unrelated issue caused by a change to Armenian transliteration. Now fixed. <a href="/wiki/User:Theknightwho" title="User:Theknightwho">Theknightwho</a> (<a class="mw-selflink selflink">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Theknightwho-20240422140800-Theknightwho-20240422134800" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">14:08, 22 April 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-140" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd> <dd>In this case, you complained before anyone on those boards would've had a chance to respond.</dd> <dd>It's ridiculous to have to go to those boards over and over again, or to rely on you to tell me which template to use for every little thing. Where are the basic rules for how to construct an entry? Where's the outline to follow? I don't mind formatting things properly, my problem is having to hunt through an unorganized mishmash. Sometimes I can find what I'm looking for, often I can't. You complain about me leaving a mess, but all you offer are one-off instructions. What do I do next time, leave a mess and drop a note on your talk page so you can tell me how to clean it up? That's not a solution. <a href="/wiki/User:Kwamikagami" title="User:Kwamikagami">kwami</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Kwamikagami" title="User talk:Kwamikagami">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Kwamikagami-20240422134700-Theknightwho-20240422124100" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">13:47, 22 April 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-141" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd> <dd>BTW, telling me once isn't enough. I'll forget. Or do the wrong thing because that's what someone else told me to do. There needs to be someplace a normal user can go to figure things out on their own without bothering others. <a href="/wiki/User:Kwamikagami" title="User:Kwamikagami">kwami</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Kwamikagami" title="User talk:Kwamikagami">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Kwamikagami-20240422135300-Theknightwho-20240422124100" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">13:53, 22 April 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-142" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>Quit whinging. Provide me guidelines to follow, and I'll follow them. If there are no guidelines, except scattered around where only the people who wrote them know to find them, then I'm not going to have much luck getting them right. <a href="/wiki/User:Kwamikagami" title="User:Kwamikagami">kwami</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Kwamikagami" title="User talk:Kwamikagami">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Kwamikagami-20240423101300-Kwamikagami-20240422135300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">10:13, 23 April 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-143" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:Kwamikagami" title="User:Kwamikagami">Kwamikagami</a> I have already told you where to go. Stop demanding things from me.</dd> <dd><div class="paragraphbreak" style="margin-top:0.5em"></div></dd> <dd>I also don’t know what prompted this extra comment, but right now you seem to be blaming me for your years (and it is years) of lazy editing in which you have blatantly ignored the norms of the site because you can’t be bothered to learn them, and bleating about how it’s impossible to learn is just your trademark abdication of responsibility for everything you do, since no-one else seems to suffer from this problem. Many, many other editors have expressed the same opinion I have of your edits, so stop acting like you’re a victim and maybe do some reflection on why everyone seems to think you’re a problem-editor. <a href="/wiki/User:Theknightwho" title="User:Theknightwho">Theknightwho</a> (<a class="mw-selflink selflink">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Theknightwho-20240423112600-Kwamikagami-20240423101300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">11:26, 23 April 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-144" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>It was in response to yet another of your complaints.</dd> <dd>If you've told me where a guideline is, I apologize. I have no memory of that. Could you tell me again? I'll put a link on my user page. Also, it would be useful if you linked to it from the Help page, so that people could find it without demanding it of you.</dd> <dd>Expressing frustration is not "acting like a victim". I'm expressing frustration at your constant criticisms without providing any remedy for rectifying what you criticize. <a href="/wiki/User:Kwamikagami" title="User:Kwamikagami">kwami</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Kwamikagami" title="User talk:Kwamikagami">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Kwamikagami-20240423113900-Theknightwho-20240423112600" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">11:39, 23 April 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-145" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd> <dd>In that particular case, we'd just had a problem with mismatching from placing templates for specific languages under 'translingual'. But now I'm supposed to do that. How am I supposed to know when to do something that's had a history of causing problems and shouldn't be done? Guidelines. We need guidelines. The people who decide on them should write them up so the rest of us know what to do. <a href="/wiki/User:Kwamikagami" title="User:Kwamikagami">kwami</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Kwamikagami" title="User talk:Kwamikagami">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Kwamikagami-20240423102000-Kwamikagami-20240422135300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">10:20, 23 April 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-146" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="strange_transclusions" data-mw-thread-id="h-strange_transclusions-20240422225900">strange transclusions</h2>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Theknightwho&action=edit&section=36" title="Edit section: strange transclusions">edit</a>]<div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata">Latest comment: <a href="#c-Benwing2-20240422233000-Theknightwho-20240422232500">7 months ago</a>5 comments2 people in discussion</div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <a href="/wiki/Reconstruction:Proto-Slavic/para" title="Reconstruction:Proto-Slavic/para">Reconstruction:Proto-Slavic/para</a> is transcluding <code style="white-space:pre-wrap">{{<a href="/wiki/Template:tl-adj#top" title="Template:tl-adj">tl-adj</a>}}</code> and other strange things. I think what must be happening is the code at <a href="/wiki/Module:headword/page" title="Module:headword/page">Module:headword/page</a> is transcluding <a href="/wiki/para" title="para">para</a> rather than <a href="/wiki/Reconstruction:Proto-Slavic/para" title="Reconstruction:Proto-Slavic/para">Reconstruction:Proto-Slavic/para</a>, which contains Tagalog and other entries. Do you have any idea what's going on? I will also take a look. I factored out <a href="/wiki/Module:headword/page" title="Module:headword/page">Module:headword/page</a> from <a href="/wiki/Module:headword/data" title="Module:headword/data">Module:headword/data</a> but I don't completely understand the code in it. <a href="/wiki/User:Benwing2" title="User:Benwing2">Benwing2</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Benwing2" title="User talk:Benwing2">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Benwing2-20240422225900-strange_transclusions" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:59, 22 April 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-147" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:Benwing2" title="User:Benwing2">Benwing2</a> I think it's because of <code style="white-space:pre-wrap">{{<a href="/wiki/Template:descendants_tree#top" title="Template:descendants tree">desctree</a>|zlw-opl|para|id=steam|t=steam}}</code>. When the template parser iterates over templates, it normalises the returned template name by grabbing the title object and resolving redirects etc. It avoids having to worry about arbitrary (non-ASCII) whitespace or what counts as a valid title, and so on. If a given template turns out to be invalid, it's skipped. <a href="/wiki/User:Theknightwho" title="User:Theknightwho">Theknightwho</a> (<a class="mw-selflink selflink">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Theknightwho-20240422230700-Benwing2-20240422225900" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:07, 22 April 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-148" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>I see. So I guess it's harmless but there's no way to avoid the templates showing up as transclusions? <a href="/wiki/User:Benwing2" title="User:Benwing2">Benwing2</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Benwing2" title="User talk:Benwing2">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Benwing2-20240422232000-Theknightwho-20240422230700" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:20, 22 April 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-149" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:Benwing2" title="User:Benwing2">Benwing2</a> The best way is probably for desctree to be more precise about what it puts through the template parser. The <code style="white-space:pre-wrap;" class="mw-highlight mw-highlight-lang-lua mw-content-ltr" dir="ltr">get_section</code> function in <a href="/wiki/Module:utilities" title="Module:utilities">Module:utilities</a> is probably the best way to do it, as you can tell it you want the Descendants section under Foo L2. <a href="/wiki/User:Theknightwho" title="User:Theknightwho">Theknightwho</a> (<a class="mw-selflink selflink">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Theknightwho-20240422232500-Benwing2-20240422232000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:25, 22 April 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-150" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>I see, thanks, something to work on :) ... <a href="/wiki/User:Benwing2" title="User:Benwing2">Benwing2</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Benwing2" title="User talk:Benwing2">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Benwing2-20240422233000-Theknightwho-20240422232500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:30, 22 April 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-151" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="I" data-mw-thread-id="h-I-20240502200300">I</h2>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Theknightwho&action=edit&section=37" title="Edit section: I">edit</a>]<div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata">Latest comment: <a href="#c-AG202-20240503024300-HistorienCanadien-20240502204800">6 months ago</a>7 comments3 people in discussion</div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> you said my transcription wasn't phonemic what do you mean by that? <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:HistorienCanadien&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:HistorienCanadien (page does not exist)">HistorienCanadien</a> (<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:HistorienCanadien&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User talk:HistorienCanadien (page does not exist)">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-HistorienCanadien-20240502200300-I" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:03, 2 May 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-152" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>@<a href="/w/index.php?title=User:HistorienCanadien&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:HistorienCanadien (page does not exist)">HistorienCanadien</a> Phonemic transcriptions should only show features that are phonemically contrastive in a language: /äi̞̯/ isn't correct as a phonemic transcription, because it implies it could be contrastive with /äi̯/, /äi/ or /ai/, but these distinctions don't exist in Canadian English. Even as a phonetic transcription, [äi̞̯] is way too narrow. <a href="/wiki/User:Theknightwho" title="User:Theknightwho">Theknightwho</a> (<a class="mw-selflink selflink">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Theknightwho-20240502201000-HistorienCanadien-20240502200300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:10, 2 May 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-153" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>why way too narrow? <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:HistorienCanadien&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:HistorienCanadien (page does not exist)">HistorienCanadien</a> (<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:HistorienCanadien&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User talk:HistorienCanadien (page does not exist)">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-HistorienCanadien-20240502201900-Theknightwho-20240502201000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:19, 2 May 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-154" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>@<a href="/w/index.php?title=User:HistorienCanadien&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:HistorienCanadien (page does not exist)">HistorienCanadien</a> [äi̯] is plausible, but there's no way that everyone who speak Canadian English says [äi̞̯]. It's way too fine a distinction. <a href="/wiki/User:Theknightwho" title="User:Theknightwho">Theknightwho</a> (<a class="mw-selflink selflink">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Theknightwho-20240502202300-HistorienCanadien-20240502201900" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:23, 2 May 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-155" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>i was editing General American not Canadian. unless another General American speaker says their pronunciation is different i feel that my phonetic transcription should stay <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:HistorienCanadien&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:HistorienCanadien (page does not exist)">HistorienCanadien</a> (<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:HistorienCanadien&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User talk:HistorienCanadien (page does not exist)">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-HistorienCanadien-20240502204800-Theknightwho-20240502202300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:48, 2 May 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-156" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>@<a href="/w/index.php?title=User:HistorienCanadien&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:HistorienCanadien (page does not exist)">HistorienCanadien</a> It's way too narrow for General American as well. Your position is not the default until proven otherwise - that's not how it works. <a href="/wiki/User:Theknightwho" title="User:Theknightwho">Theknightwho</a> (<a class="mw-selflink selflink">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Theknightwho-20240502205500-HistorienCanadien-20240502204800" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:55, 2 May 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-157" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd> <dd>@<a href="/w/index.php?title=User:HistorienCanadien&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:HistorienCanadien (page does not exist)">HistorienCanadien</a>: Hi, GenAm speaker here. [äi̞̯] is too narrow for our current practices. As for /ʌ/ in GenAm, there's currently not a consensus, and there've been many discussions about it. I support changing it to the schwa, but there are competing arguments. I'll point you to the vote that's yet to start, which has links to previous discussions: <a href="/wiki/Wiktionary:Votes/2023-12/Represent_the_GenAm_NURSE_and_STRUT_vowels_as_schwa" title="Wiktionary:Votes/2023-12/Represent the GenAm NURSE and STRUT vowels as schwa">Wiktionary:Votes/2023-12/Represent the GenAm NURSE and STRUT vowels as schwa</a>. <a href="/wiki/User:AG202" title="User:AG202">AG202</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:AG202" title="User talk:AG202">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-AG202-20240503024300-HistorienCanadien-20240502204800" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:43, 3 May 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-158" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="old_lombard" data-mw-thread-id="h-old_lombard-20240510041100">old lombard</h2>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Theknightwho&action=edit&section=38" title="Edit section: old lombard">edit</a>]<div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata">Latest comment: <a href="#c-That_Northern_Irish_Historian-20240510041100-old_lombard">6 months ago</a>1 comment1 person in discussion</div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> idk why old lombard wasn't working, as i put (<a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_Lombard_language" class="extiw" title="w:Old Lombard language">Old Lombard</a>) in articles like Jesu, zinqui, and giaçça. <a href="/wiki/User:That_Northern_Irish_Historian" title="User:That Northern Irish Historian">That Northern Irish Historian</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:That_Northern_Irish_Historian" title="User talk:That Northern Irish Historian">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-That_Northern_Irish_Historian-20240510041100-old_lombard" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">04:11, 10 May 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-159" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="◌͛" data-mw-thread-id="h-◌͛-20240510211100"><a href="/wiki/%E2%97%8C%CD%9B" title="◌͛">◌͛</a></h2>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Theknightwho&action=edit&section=39" title="Edit section: ◌͛">edit</a>]<div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata">Latest comment: <a href="#c-Kwamikagami-20240510211100-◌͛">6 months ago</a>1 comment1 person in discussion</div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> Thanks for catching that. It should probably be under Translingual. Texts on Lithuanian dialectology are primarily but not exclusively written in Lithuanian. It would also be fine IMO to list it under Lithuanian, but if so we should move the other Lithuanian-dialectology conventions to Lithuanian headers as well. <a href="/wiki/User:Kwamikagami" title="User:Kwamikagami">kwami</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Kwamikagami" title="User talk:Kwamikagami">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Kwamikagami-20240510211100-◌͛" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:11, 10 May 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-160" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Edit_summary_on_don't_tread_on_me" data-mw-thread-id="h-Edit_summary_on_don't_tread_on_me-20240525211800">Edit summary on <a href="/wiki/don%27t_tread_on_me" title="don't tread on me">don't tread on me</a></h2>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Theknightwho&action=edit&section=40" title="Edit section: Edit summary on don't tread on me">edit</a>]<div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata">Latest comment: <a href="#c-Purplebackpack89-20240526112900-Theknightwho-20240526112300">6 months ago</a>22 comments3 people in discussion</div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> FWIW, some of the things you removed at that entry weren't added by me. And was that long and that big a swipe really necessary? <a href="/wiki/User:Purplebackpack89#top" title="User:Purplebackpack89">Purple</a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Purplebackpack89" title="User talk:Purplebackpack89">backpack89</a> <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Purplebackpack89-20240525211800-Edit_summary_on_don't_tread_on_me" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:18, 25 May 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-161" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:Purplebackpack89" title="User:Purplebackpack89">Purplebackpack89</a> It was constructive criticism, so please take it on board. <a href="/wiki/User:Theknightwho" title="User:Theknightwho">Theknightwho</a> (<a class="mw-selflink selflink">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Theknightwho-20240525212100-Purplebackpack89-20240525211800" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:21, 25 May 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-162" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd>Please stop following me around. <a href="/wiki/User:Purplebackpack89#top" title="User:Purplebackpack89">Purple</a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Purplebackpack89" title="User talk:Purplebackpack89">backpack89</a> <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Purplebackpack89-20240525212500-Theknightwho-20240525212100" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:25, 25 May 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-163" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:Purplebackpack89" title="User:Purplebackpack89">Purplebackpack89</a> You commented on my talkpage haha. If you're referring to me removing your invalid vote, that's because you had just posted about it on the <a href="/wiki/Wiktionary:Beer_parlour" title="Wiktionary:Beer parlour">WT:Beer parlour</a> (i.e. the most public place on Wiktionary), and it's completely fair to remove procedurally invalid votes. I suggest you stop trying to pick fights like this. <a href="/wiki/User:Theknightwho" title="User:Theknightwho">Theknightwho</a> (<a class="mw-selflink selflink">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Theknightwho-20240525212900-Purplebackpack89-20240525212500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:29, 25 May 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-164" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd><dl><dd>ME the one picking fights? You tinkered with my edits in three different places in the span of only a few minutes, which is only explicable if you're intentionally checking out my edits. Leave me alone. If my edits need modification, somebody else can do it. <a href="/wiki/User:Purplebackpack89#top" title="User:Purplebackpack89">Purple</a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Purplebackpack89" title="User talk:Purplebackpack89">backpack89</a> <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Purplebackpack89-20240525213300-Theknightwho-20240525212900" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:33, 25 May 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-165" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:Purplebackpack89" title="User:Purplebackpack89">Purplebackpack89</a>: You have legally licensed your contributions according to the free wiki licence and anybody may edit and improve them. <a href="/wiki/User:Equinox" title="User:Equinox">Equinox</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Equinox" title="User talk:Equinox">◑</a> <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Equinox-20240525213500-Purplebackpack89-20240525213300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:35, 25 May 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-166" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>That shouldn't be interpreted as a license to harass. Other Wikimedia projects have an anti-harassment policy for a reason...</dd> <dd>But I suppose you think this is the Wild West where you and Knight think you're entitled to harass me, call me a moron, and try to ride me out of town on a rail.</dd> <dd>Well, that's not going to work. I'm staying and I'm going to try to enact policies that clean up behavior. <a href="/wiki/User:Purplebackpack89#top" title="User:Purplebackpack89">Purple</a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Purplebackpack89" title="User talk:Purplebackpack89">backpack89</a> <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Purplebackpack89-20240525214500-Equinox-20240525213500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:45, 25 May 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-167" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:Purplebackpack89" title="User:Purplebackpack89">Purplebackpack89</a> Two of the edits were correcting things you did that were procedurally invalid, and one offered you constructive criticism about how to make better edits in the future. Please grow thicker skin. What you're doing right now is pretty clear-cut misuse of the anti-harassment policy. <a href="/wiki/User:Theknightwho" title="User:Theknightwho">Theknightwho</a> (<a class="mw-selflink selflink">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Theknightwho-20240525215000-Purplebackpack89-20240525214500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:50, 25 May 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-168" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>It was procedurally invalid for me...</dd> <dd>...to close a discussion that was itself procedurally invalid? I closed an RFD that should never have been started because the OP wasn't asking for anything to be deleted.</dd> <dd>Also, on what planet do you think that saying things like "grow thicker skin" is going to make me MORE disposed to listening to you? <a href="/wiki/User:Purplebackpack89#top" title="User:Purplebackpack89">Purple</a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Purplebackpack89" title="User talk:Purplebackpack89">backpack89</a> <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Purplebackpack89-20240525215300-Theknightwho-20240525215000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:53, 25 May 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-169" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:Purplebackpack89" title="User:Purplebackpack89">Purplebackpack89</a> It's very clear, at this point, that there is no combination of words I could say that you would actually listen to. I will continue to change bad edits as I encounter them, and I will leave alone good ones; I don't really care who made them. <a href="/wiki/User:Theknightwho" title="User:Theknightwho">Theknightwho</a> (<a class="mw-selflink selflink">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Theknightwho-20240525215600-Purplebackpack89-20240525215300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:56, 25 May 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-170" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>If you're editing PAGES, that's fine. If you're snooping through an individual EDITOR'S contributions on multiple WikiProjects (which you've more or less said you're doing), that's harassment <a href="/wiki/User:Purplebackpack89#top" title="User:Purplebackpack89">Purple</a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Purplebackpack89" title="User talk:Purplebackpack89">backpack89</a> <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Purplebackpack89-20240525220400-Theknightwho-20240525215600" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:04, 25 May 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-171" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:Purplebackpack89" title="User:Purplebackpack89">Purplebackpack89</a>: Absolutely untrue. Editor contributions are publicly shared on purpose. Seeing one bad edit by a user may be a red flag that others also need attention. <a href="/wiki/User:Equinox" title="User:Equinox">Equinox</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Equinox" title="User talk:Equinox">◑</a> <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Equinox-20240525220800-Purplebackpack89-20240525220400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:08, 25 May 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-172" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd> <dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:Purplebackpack89" title="User:Purplebackpack89">Purplebackpack89</a> All three were on, or had been linked to from, highly prominent public forums in recent threads, so it's not particularly surprising that I came across them. I only checked your contributions after I noticed you were picking fights with multiple editors (not least because I have Equinox and SGConlaw's talkpages on my watchlist). It's very clear that the only thing you're really interested in here is feeling like you're winning the argument, or that you're the victim, or some similar self-focused aim that's purely about your ego, but that's not something any of the rest of us have any obligation to care about. Feel free to keep complaining on my talkpage, but I won't be responding any further. <a href="/wiki/User:Theknightwho" title="User:Theknightwho">Theknightwho</a> (<a class="mw-selflink selflink">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Theknightwho-20240525221000-Purplebackpack89-20240525220400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:10, 25 May 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-173" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:Purplebackpack89" title="User:Purplebackpack89">Purplebackpack89</a> That isn't how it works - you don't get to declare yourself immune from scrutiny, particularly when you decided to start making waves on the most highly-trafficked pages. I see you have a long history of this kind of behaviour here and on Wikipedia, too. <a href="/wiki/User:Theknightwho" title="User:Theknightwho">Theknightwho</a> (<a class="mw-selflink selflink">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Theknightwho-20240525213600-Purplebackpack89-20240525213300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:36, 25 May 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-174" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <dl><dd>A search for Purplebackpack and "hounding" finds many examples of his false hyperbolic claims of "harassment": <a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wiktionary.org/w/index.php?search=%22purplebackpack89%22+%22hounding%22&title=Special%3ASearch&profile=advanced&fulltext=1&ns0=1&ns1=1&ns2=1&ns3=1&ns4=1&ns5=1&ns6=1&ns7=1&ns8=1&ns9=1&ns10=1&ns11=1&ns12=1&ns13=1&ns14=1&ns15=1&ns90=1&ns91=1&ns92=1&ns93=1&ns100=1&ns101=1&ns106=1&ns107=1&ns108=1&ns109=1&ns110=1&ns111=1&ns114=1&ns115=1&ns116=1&ns117=1&ns118=1&ns119=1&ns710=1&ns711=1&ns828=1&ns829=1">[2]</a>. <a href="/wiki/User:Equinox" title="User:Equinox">Equinox</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Equinox" title="User talk:Equinox">◑</a> <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Equinox-20240525221000-Purplebackpack89-20240525211800" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:10, 25 May 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-175" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>You did that search WHY? I stand by each of those claims 110%. Also, that's another personal attack... <a href="/wiki/User:Purplebackpack89#top" title="User:Purplebackpack89">Purple</a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Purplebackpack89" title="User talk:Purplebackpack89">backpack89</a> <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Purplebackpack89-20240525222100-Equinox-20240525221000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:21, 25 May 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-176" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading3"><h3 id="hot_dog_too?" data-mw-thread-id="h-hot_dog_too?-Edit_summary_on_don't_tread_on_me-20240526104800"><a href="/wiki/hot_dog" title="hot dog">hot dog</a> too?</h3>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Theknightwho&action=edit&section=41" title="Edit section: hot dog too?">edit</a>]</div> Knight, if you wanted to give the impression that you're NOT stalking me, you're failing. And that one isn't a high-profile page or your previous excuse. You're clearly stalking my edits <a href="/wiki/User:Purplebackpack89#top" title="User:Purplebackpack89">Purple</a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Purplebackpack89" title="User talk:Purplebackpack89">backpack89</a> <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Purplebackpack89-20240526104800-hot_dog_too?" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">10:48, 26 May 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-177" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> Furthermore, some people think of a hot dog as a sandwich and some do not. It's not necessary to include the word "sandwich" in the definition. I see that your edit had to be modified by another editor only a few minutes after you made it. <a href="/wiki/User:Purplebackpack89#top" title="User:Purplebackpack89">Purple</a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Purplebackpack89" title="User talk:Purplebackpack89">backpack89</a> <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Purplebackpack89-20240526105100-hot_dog_too?" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">10:51, 26 May 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-178" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:Purplebackpack89" title="User:Purplebackpack89">Purplebackpack89</a> The only harassment I see here is from you having a meltdown any time someone tries to correct you: “entree” was unhelpful at best. <a href="/wiki/User:Theknightwho" title="User:Theknightwho">Theknightwho</a> (<a class="mw-selflink selflink">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Theknightwho-20240526111500-Purplebackpack89-20240526105100" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">11:15, 26 May 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-179" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>Sandwich is controversial and had to be removed. Hence why your edit was modified only six minutes later. <a href="/wiki/User:Purplebackpack89#top" title="User:Purplebackpack89">Purple</a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Purplebackpack89" title="User talk:Purplebackpack89">backpack89</a> <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Purplebackpack89-20240526112100-Theknightwho-20240526111500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">11:21, 26 May 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-180" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:Purplebackpack89" title="User:Purplebackpack89">Purplebackpack89</a> To something else - again, this just reinforces the fact the only thing you actually care about is feeling like you’re right. <a href="/wiki/User:Theknightwho" title="User:Theknightwho">Theknightwho</a> (<a class="mw-selflink selflink">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Theknightwho-20240526112300-Purplebackpack89-20240526112100" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">11:23, 26 May 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-181" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>Untrue. I care about Wiktionary have as many good, uncontroversial definitions as possible <a href="/wiki/User:Purplebackpack89#top" title="User:Purplebackpack89">Purple</a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Purplebackpack89" title="User talk:Purplebackpack89">backpack89</a> <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Purplebackpack89-20240526112900-Theknightwho-20240526112300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">11:29, 26 May 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-182" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Stalking/harassment,_again" data-mw-thread-id="h-Stalking/harassment,_again-20240527154700">Stalking/harassment, again</h2>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Theknightwho&action=edit&section=42" title="Edit section: Stalking/harassment, again">edit</a>]<div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata">Latest comment: <a href="#c-Purplebackpack89-20240602131100-Chuck_Entz-20240529151900">5 months ago</a>11 comments4 people in discussion</div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <ol><li>You really don't care about perception, do you? You're clearly stalking/harassing me at this point</li> <li>Some of those deletions are...questionable. For example, it is acceptable to redirect a conjugation of a verb to an entry of an infinite or another conjugation of a verb</li></ol> <a href="/wiki/User:Purplebackpack89#top" title="User:Purplebackpack89">Purple</a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Purplebackpack89" title="User talk:Purplebackpack89">backpack89</a> <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Purplebackpack89-20240527154700-Stalking/harassment,_again" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:47, 27 May 2024 (UTC)</a>!<span id="ooui-php-183" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>Reviewing someone's contributions is not stalking or harassment. <a href="/wiki/User:Theknightwho" title="User:Theknightwho">Theknightwho</a> (<a class="mw-selflink selflink">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Theknightwho-20240527154900-Purplebackpack89-20240527154700" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:49, 27 May 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-184" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>In this case, it is. PERIOD. If the contributions were that egregiously wrong, somebody else can deal with them. Again, you don't seem to care how I feel or how you're perceived. <a href="/wiki/User:Purplebackpack89#top" title="User:Purplebackpack89">Purple</a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Purplebackpack89" title="User talk:Purplebackpack89">backpack89</a> <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Purplebackpack89-20240527155900-Theknightwho-20240527154900" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:59, 27 May 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-185" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>I review lots of users' contributions - it's nothing particular about you. <a href="/wiki/User:Theknightwho" title="User:Theknightwho">Theknightwho</a> (<a class="mw-selflink selflink">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Theknightwho-20240527160100-Purplebackpack89-20240527155900" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:01, 27 May 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-186" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>The "duck test" would suggest it IS something particular about me. Please also address concern #2 <a href="/wiki/User:Purplebackpack89#top" title="User:Purplebackpack89">Purple</a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Purplebackpack89" title="User talk:Purplebackpack89">backpack89</a> <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Purplebackpack89-20240527160700-Theknightwho-20240527160100" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:07, 27 May 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-187" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>Try reviewing my contributions, and see how many of them relate to you. <a href="/wiki/User:Theknightwho" title="User:Theknightwho">Theknightwho</a> (<a class="mw-selflink selflink">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Theknightwho-20240527162200-Purplebackpack89-20240527160700" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:22, 27 May 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-188" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd> <dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:Purplebackpack89" title="User:Purplebackpack89">Purplebackpack89</a>: Let me point out that you are accusing TKW of bad faith and of lying about it. That's basically a personal attack and should be your last resort, not the first thing you say when someone reverts or deletes your edits. You've been doing this kind of thing constantly for as long as I can remember. It annoys people and seriously damages your credibility. <a href="/wiki/User:Chuck_Entz" title="User:Chuck Entz">Chuck Entz</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Chuck_Entz" title="User talk:Chuck Entz">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Chuck_Entz-20240529151900-Purplebackpack89-20240527160700" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:19, 29 May 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-189" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>Maybe the language was a little too severe, but @<a href="/wiki/User:Chuck_Entz" title="User:Chuck Entz">Chuck Entz</a> I stand by my assertion that Knight was overdoing it and didn't seem to have any regard for my feelings. And remember I'm not the only editor who has problems with Knight. This project has a problem with "the guardians" not being nice to other editors and Knight is part of that problem. <a href="/wiki/User:Purplebackpack89#top" title="User:Purplebackpack89">Purple</a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Purplebackpack89" title="User talk:Purplebackpack89">backpack89</a> <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Purplebackpack89-20240529162900-Chuck_Entz-20240529151900" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:29, 29 May 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-190" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd> <dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:Chuck_Entz" title="User:Chuck Entz">Chuck Entz</a> At BEST, Theknightwho doesn't either know or care about descalation. The beer parlour thread has proven it...several editors have given him suggestions on how to do it and he's ignored them. Theknightwho could've easily avoided any appearance of harassment if he avoided editing pages I created for awhile. Instead, he literally did the exact opposite. <a href="/wiki/User:Purplebackpack89#top" title="User:Purplebackpack89">Purple</a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Purplebackpack89" title="User talk:Purplebackpack89">backpack89</a> <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Purplebackpack89-20240602131100-Chuck_Entz-20240529151900" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">13:11, 2 June 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-191" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <ul><li>Sorry to butt in here. I'm going to look through Purple's contributions. <a href="/wiki/User:Denazz" title="User:Denazz">Denazz</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Denazz" title="User talk:Denazz">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Denazz-20240527224200-Purplebackpack89-20240527154700" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:42, 27 May 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-192" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>Yep, there is lots of crap made by Purply. Thanks for being a vigilant editor, TKW! <a href="/wiki/User:Denazz" title="User:Denazz">Denazz</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Denazz" title="User talk:Denazz">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Denazz-20240527224300-Denazz-20240527224200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:43, 27 May 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-193" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd></dl></li></ul> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="WhatLinksHere_Weirdness" data-mw-thread-id="h-WhatLinksHere_Weirdness-20240531205000">WhatLinksHere Weirdness</h2>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Theknightwho&action=edit&section=43" title="Edit section: WhatLinksHere Weirdness">edit</a>]<div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata">Latest comment: <a href="#c-Theknightwho-20240531212000-Theknightwho-20240531205500">5 months ago</a>3 comments2 people in discussion</div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> I've been working with the Template:Tracking subpages in <a href="/wiki/Special:WantedTemplates" title="Special:WantedTemplates">Special:WantedTemplates</a> and have managed to clear a number of them using the API-sandbox purge method in between other stuff. I haven't been able to completely clear the latest one: <a href="/wiki/Special:WhatLinksHere/Template:tracking/inflection_of/tag/m" title="Special:WhatLinksHere/Template:tracking/inflection of/tag/m">Special:WhatLinksHere/Template:tracking/inflection_of/tag/m</a> still has 10 entries (e.g., <a href="/wiki/wiener_breath" title="wiener breath">wiener breath</a>) that I can't seem to affect at all. Apparently they're links rather than transclusions, but I can't find any reference to the pseudo-template in the entries themselves- not in the wikitext, not in the transclusion list below the edit window, not in the HTML- not anywhere. And why these 10 entries, but not others? A side issue: going through the transclusion list at <a href="/wiki/wiener_breath" title="wiener breath">wiener breath</a> I noticed <a href="/wiki/Module:languages/data/3/m" title="Module:languages/data/3/m">Module:languages/data/3/m</a>, which shouldn't be there at all- "en" is the only language code in the wikitext. <a href="/wiki/Special:WhatLinksHere/Module:languages/data/3/m" title="Special:WhatLinksHere/Module:languages/data/3/m">Special:WhatLinksHere/Module:languages/data/3/m</a> currently has <a class="external text" href="https://linkcount.toolforge.org/?project=en.wiktionary.org&page=Module%3Alanguages%2Fdata%2F3%2Fm">8,190,877</a> entries- it looks like a whole lot more than all the entries with references to languages having three-letter codes that start with "m". <a href="/wiki/User:Chuck_Entz" title="User:Chuck Entz">Chuck Entz</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Chuck_Entz" title="User talk:Chuck Entz">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Chuck_Entz-20240531205000-WhatLinksHere_Weirdness" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:50, 31 May 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-194" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>Hmm - I suspect something is defaulting to <code style="white-space:pre-wrap;" class="mw-highlight mw-highlight-lang-text mw-content-ltr" dir="ltr">mul</code> somewhere, which would explain <a href="/wiki/Module:languages/data/3/m" title="Module:languages/data/3/m">Module:languages/data/3/m</a>. I'll have a look. <a href="/wiki/User:Theknightwho" title="User:Theknightwho">Theknightwho</a> (<a class="mw-selflink selflink">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Theknightwho-20240531205500-Chuck_Entz-20240531205000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:55, 31 May 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-195" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:Chuck_Entz" title="User:Chuck Entz">Chuck Entz</a> I think it might be something weird server-side, as I managed to fix <a href="/wiki/contruded" title="contruded">contruded</a> by removing <code style="white-space:pre-wrap">{{<a href="/wiki/Template:inflection_of#top" title="Template:inflection of">infl of</a>}}</code>, and it hasn't reappeared since I restored the page back to its original state. Hopefully they'll filter out naturally soon. <a href="/wiki/User:Theknightwho" title="User:Theknightwho">Theknightwho</a> (<a class="mw-selflink selflink">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Theknightwho-20240531212000-Theknightwho-20240531205500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:20, 31 May 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-196" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Enabling_"oftext"_parameter_for_{{doublet}}" data-mw-thread-id="h-Enabling_"oftext"_parameter_for_{{doublet}}-20240602205000">Enabling "oftext" parameter for <code style="white-space:pre-wrap">{{<a href="/wiki/Template:doublet#top" title="Template:doublet">doublet</a>}}</code></h2>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Theknightwho&action=edit&section=44" title="Edit section: Enabling "oftext" parameter for {{doublet}}">edit</a>]<div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata">Latest comment: <a href="#c-Theknightwho-20240603144600-Brusquedandelion-20240603143800">5 months ago</a>4 comments2 people in discussion</div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> If you look at the <a href="/wiki/Module:etymology/templates/doublet" title="Module:etymology/templates/doublet">corresponding module</a> there's a bit of code (line 116) that checks the frame for a parameter called <code style="white-space:pre-wrap;" class="mw-highlight mw-highlight-lang-lua mw-content-ltr" dir="ltr">oftext</code> and uses that, if it exists, in place of the word "of", so that for example if <code style="white-space:pre-wrap;" class="mw-highlight mw-highlight-lang-lua mw-content-ltr" dir="ltr">oftext="is"</code> the template will generate an output that starts with "Doublet is..." instead of "Doublet of... ". However it appears that one cannot currently use this parameter with the template because the <code style="white-space:pre-wrap;" class="mw-highlight mw-highlight-lang-lua mw-content-ltr" dir="ltr">oftext</code> parameter is not actually declared as part of the frame (circa lines 68-99). I am unable to edit the module due to page protection settings; can you change it so that this parameter works? Thank you. <a href="/wiki/User:Brusquedandelion" title="User:Brusquedandelion">Brusquedandelion</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Brusquedandelion" title="User talk:Brusquedandelion">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Brusquedandelion-20240602205000-Enabling_"oftext"_parameter_for_{{doublet}}" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:50, 2 June 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-197" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:Brusquedandelion" title="User:Brusquedandelion">Brusquedandelion</a> So my understanding is that <code style="white-space:pre-wrap;" class="mw-highlight mw-highlight-lang-text mw-content-ltr" dir="ltr">oftext=</code> is a parameter for the frame, not for the parent frame. I'm not sure how familiar you are with modules and templates (so forgive me if I'm over-explaining here), but the <code style="white-space:pre-wrap">{{<a href="/wiki/Template:doublet#top" title="Template:doublet">doublet</a>}}</code> template calls the module with <code style="white-space:pre-wrap">{{<a href="https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Scribunto#Usage" class="extiw" title="mw:Extension:Scribunto">#invoke</a>:}}</code>. The frame arguments are those which are passed directly to <code style="white-space:pre-wrap">{{<a href="https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Scribunto#Usage" class="extiw" title="mw:Extension:Scribunto">#invoke</a>:}}</code> from inside the template itself (e.g. one of them is <code style="white-space:pre-wrap;" class="mw-highlight mw-highlight-lang-text mw-content-ltr" dir="ltr">cat=doublets</code>, which ensures that the page is always added to the "[langname] doublets" category). On the other hand, the parent frame arguments are those are passed to the <code style="white-space:pre-wrap">{{<a href="/wiki/Template:doublet#top" title="Template:doublet">doublet</a>}}</code> template from the entry (i.e. the template's actual parameters).</dd> <dd><div class="paragraphbreak" style="margin-top:0.5em"></div></dd> <dd>The reason it's set up like this is because the output is generated using the <code style="white-space:pre-wrap;" class="mw-highlight mw-highlight-lang-lua mw-content-ltr" dir="ltr">misc_variant_multiple_terms</code> function in the module, which is generic, and the frame arguments are used to customise it for each template (though the only other one we seem to have at the moment is <code style="white-space:pre-wrap">{{<a href="/wiki/Template:piecewise_doublet#top" title="Template:piecewise doublet">piecewise doublet</a>}}</code>); the <code style="white-space:pre-wrap;" class="mw-highlight mw-highlight-lang-text mw-content-ltr" dir="ltr">oftext=</code> parameter has been included to facilitate that kind of customisaton.</dd> <dd><div class="paragraphbreak" style="margin-top:0.5em"></div></dd> <dd>That being said, it wouldn't be difficult to add support for custom text to <code style="white-space:pre-wrap">{{<a href="/wiki/Template:doublet#top" title="Template:doublet">doublet</a>}}</code>, but before I add it it would be helpful if you could let me know what you're trying to do, as it might be that there's already a better way to do it. <a href="/wiki/User:Theknightwho" title="User:Theknightwho">Theknightwho</a> (<a class="mw-selflink selflink">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Theknightwho-20240603142000-Brusquedandelion-20240602205000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">14:20, 3 June 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-198" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>I'm not super familiar with templates/modules so I appreciate the explanation, though all that basically accords with my understanding. I went to modify the template itself in order to pass along an oftext argument but from glancing at the module code I got the impression that wouldn't work. Am I wrong?</dd> <dd>At any rate, what I am trying to do is suppress the "of" altogether, so that, in combination with the nocaps parameter, I get something that says "doublet X", as that is what would makes sense in the running text I am writing for an entry (specifically, the collocation "Compare inherited doublet X).</dd> <dd>Thanks again for your help. <a href="/wiki/User:Brusquedandelion" title="User:Brusquedandelion">Brusquedandelion</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Brusquedandelion" title="User talk:Brusquedandelion">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Brusquedandelion-20240603143800-Theknightwho-20240603142000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">14:38, 3 June 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-199" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:Brusquedandelion" title="User:Brusquedandelion">Brusquedandelion</a> I'd do it like this (using an English example):<pre>Compare inherited {{doublet|en|nocap=1}} {{m|en|term}}.</pre> This gives you: "Compare inherited <a href="/wiki/Appendix:Glossary#doublet" title="Appendix:Glossary">doublet</a> <a href="/wiki/term#English" title="term">term</a>." This ensures you still get the doublet link + category, without tying you to a specific wording. <a href="/wiki/User:Theknightwho" title="User:Theknightwho">Theknightwho</a> (<a class="mw-selflink selflink">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Theknightwho-20240603144600-Brusquedandelion-20240603143800" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">14:46, 3 June 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Etymology_of_derogatory_terms" data-mw-thread-id="h-Etymology_of_derogatory_terms-20240611001900">Etymology of derogatory terms</h2>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Theknightwho&action=edit&section=45" title="Edit section: Etymology of derogatory terms">edit</a>]<div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata">Latest comment: <a href="#c-Chuck_Entz-20240611045400--sche-20240611015100">5 months ago</a>4 comments4 people in discussion</div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> Hello, I wanted to address the two pages you reverted about the etymology of <a href="/wiki/red_man" title="red man">red man</a> and <a href="/wiki/redskin" title="redskin">redskin</a>. I'm at a restaurant right now, so there's not much I can do. How can I attest that these terms were indeed from the history of skinning and scalping? I tried to add a resource to back up my claim. I am Native American, and my friend and I care to make people aware about the history. What would be good resources to add? I can get onto my computer when I get home or have another person help with defining the etymology. Thank you <a href="/wiki/User:Flame,_not_lame" title="User:Flame, not lame">Flame, not lame</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Flame,_not_lame" title="User talk:Flame, not lame">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Flame,_not_lame-20240611001900-Etymology_of_derogatory_terms" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:19, 11 June 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-201" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:Flame,_not_lame" title="User:Flame, not lame">Flame, not lame</a> I did read the link you provided (<a rel="nofollow" class="external autonumber" href="https://thisweekinlibraries.com/the-history-of-skinning-people-alive/">[3]</a>), but it doesn't talk about the terms <a href="/wiki/redskin#English" title="redskin">redskin</a> or <a href="/wiki/red_man#English" title="red man">red man</a>, or why red was historically used to describe Native Americans. I'm particularly conscious that derogatory terms often generate <a href="/wiki/folk_etymology" title="folk etymology">folk etymologies</a> that aren't actually true, so it would be good to see a source that provides a factual basis for the claim. @<a href="/wiki/User:Chuck_Entz" title="User:Chuck Entz">Chuck Entz</a> may have some thoughts on this. <a href="/wiki/User:Theknightwho" title="User:Theknightwho">Theknightwho</a> (<a class="mw-selflink selflink">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Theknightwho-20240611002700-Flame,_not_lame-20240611001900" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:27, 11 June 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-202" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd></dl> <dl><dd>(@Flame) As far as I have found (although even after my edits to the entry just now, it has been several years since I made a thorough review of information about this subject), the skinning/scalping theory has not been accepted by scholars as plausible, in part because the other explanation (that it's a reference to skin colour) is supported by the documentary evidence that both Europeans and Natives long referred to Natives' skin colour as red and Europeans' skin as white (and Africans' skin as black). This in no way affects the extent to which the terms are now offensive. It's just that (as far as I've seen) there's not historical evidence that scalping has anything to do with why either Natives or Europeans referred to Natives as redskins, red men or red. If there are scholars advancing the argument that scalping/skinning is the etymological origin of the terms, with evidence, it would be useful to bring that to bear so it can be discussed and weighed against the scholarship pointing to the skin-color etymology. <a href="/wiki/User:-sche" title="User:-sche">- -sche</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:-sche" title="User talk:-sche">(discuss)</a> <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c--sche-20240611015100-Flame,_not_lame-20240611001900" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:51, 11 June 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-203" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>There's so much nonsense out there about scalping already- why make up more of it? I vaguely remember something about scalping having originated during wars between the French and the English as a way to verify that the Indians were really killing the people they were being paid to kill- but it's been decades since I've read anything on the subject. Besides, I'm more interested about cultures in the western US, which have never had anything to do with such things. <a href="/wiki/User:Chuck_Entz" title="User:Chuck Entz">Chuck Entz</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Chuck_Entz" title="User talk:Chuck Entz">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Chuck_Entz-20240611045400--sche-20240611015100" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">04:54, 11 June 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-204" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="questions_about_aliases_of_parameters_with_special_properties" data-mw-thread-id="h-questions_about_aliases_of_parameters_with_special_properties-20240614050200">questions about aliases of parameters with special properties</h2>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Theknightwho&action=edit&section=46" title="Edit section: questions about aliases of parameters with special properties">edit</a>]<div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata">Latest comment: <a href="#c-Benwing2-20240614203900-Theknightwho-20240614200600">5 months ago</a>3 comments2 people in discussion</div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> Since you've done a lot of work on <a href="/wiki/Module:parameters" title="Module:parameters">Module:parameters</a>, I figure you might know the answer to this. If <code>|bar=</code> is an alias of <code>|foo=</code>, and <code>|foo=</code> has special properties such as <code style="white-space:pre-wrap;" class="mw-highlight mw-highlight-lang-text mw-content-ltr" dir="ltr">list = true</code>, <code style="white-space:pre-wrap;" class="mw-highlight mw-highlight-lang-text mw-content-ltr" dir="ltr">separate_no_index = true</code>, <code style="white-space:pre-wrap;" class="mw-highlight mw-highlight-lang-text mw-content-ltr" dir="ltr">type = "script"</code>, etc., do those special properties have to be duplicated in the alias spec (in this case the spec for <code>|bar=</code>), or does the module pick them up automatically from the aliasee (in this case <code>|foo=</code>)? It's hard to tell from reading the code. If they are supposed to be duplicated in the alias spec, what happens if they're not? I do see a comment in the code about non-list aliases of list params, which suggests that at least <code style="white-space:pre-wrap;" class="mw-highlight mw-highlight-lang-text mw-content-ltr" dir="ltr">list = true</code> needs to be duplicated on both params, but I don't know if that holds everywhere. Definitely this should be documented in the documentation for <a href="/wiki/Module:parameters" title="Module:parameters">Module:parameters</a>, as it's been a constant source of confusion for me. <a href="/wiki/User:Benwing2" title="User:Benwing2">Benwing2</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Benwing2" title="User talk:Benwing2">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Benwing2-20240614050200-questions_about_aliases_of_parameters_with_special_properties" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">05:02, 14 June 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-205" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:Benwing2" title="User:Benwing2">Benwing2</a> I can't remember exactly without looking in detail, but I think all the special properties other than <code style="white-space:pre-wrap;" class="mw-highlight mw-highlight-lang-text mw-content-ltr" dir="ltr">list</code> get picked up automatically (i.e. they don't need to be specified), but it wasn't possible to enable that for lists since there are cases where the alias only applies to the first item in the list, meaning that if you want the alias to apply to the whole list you have to specify it for that as well.</dd> <dd><div class="paragraphbreak" style="margin-top:0.5em"></div></dd> <dd>That being said, nothing will go wrong if you over-specify anything for the alias (though there might be undefined behaviour if you give the main param and alias contradictory properties). <a href="/wiki/User:Theknightwho" title="User:Theknightwho">Theknightwho</a> (<a class="mw-selflink selflink">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Theknightwho-20240614200600-Benwing2-20240614050200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:06, 14 June 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-206" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>Thanks! <a href="/wiki/User:Benwing2" title="User:Benwing2">Benwing2</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Benwing2" title="User talk:Benwing2">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Benwing2-20240614203900-Theknightwho-20240614200600" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:39, 14 June 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-207" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="usage_notes" data-mw-thread-id="h-usage_notes-20240615071800">usage notes</h2>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Theknightwho&action=edit&section=47" title="Edit section: usage notes">edit</a>]<div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata">Latest comment: <a href="#c-Theknightwho-20240618190500-Kwamikagami-20240617070500">5 months ago</a>3 comments2 people in discussion</div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> Hi. I think the usage notes at <a href="/wiki/%F0%9F%94%9A" title="🔚">🔚</a> and <a href="/wiki/%F0%9F%94%99" title="🔙">🔙</a> should be deleted. Color of emojis is font dependent, not OS dependent (and that's rather trivial anyway); also, with translingual coverage, there are not "other" languages because no language is defined to begin with. (I reverted myself on this because of the possibility that deleting wording, even if it's nonsense, might constitute reason for a block.) Thanks, <a href="/wiki/User:Kwamikagami" title="User:Kwamikagami">kwami</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Kwamikagami" title="User talk:Kwamikagami">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Kwamikagami-20240615071800-usage_notes" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">07:18, 15 June 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-208" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>No objection here, so I went ahead and removed. <a href="/wiki/User:Kwamikagami" title="User:Kwamikagami">kwami</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Kwamikagami" title="User talk:Kwamikagami">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Kwamikagami-20240617070500-Kwamikagami-20240615071800" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">07:05, 17 June 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-209" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:Kwamikagami" title="User:Kwamikagami">Kwamikagami</a> Sorry, I missed this due to the thread below being posted as well. I agree with the change. <a href="/wiki/User:Theknightwho" title="User:Theknightwho">Theknightwho</a> (<a class="mw-selflink selflink">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Theknightwho-20240618190500-Kwamikagami-20240617070500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:05, 18 June 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-210" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Why_removed_templates?" data-mw-thread-id="h-Why_removed_templates?-20240615094800">Why removed templates?</h2>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Theknightwho&action=edit&section=48" title="Edit section: Why removed templates?">edit</a>]<div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata">Latest comment: <a href="#c-Theknightwho-20240615134100-Miwako_Sato-20240615094800">5 months ago</a>2 comments2 people in discussion</div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> Just saw you removed lite templates and want to ask why these templates should be removed/replaced? Thank you. -- <a href="/wiki/User:Miwako_Sato" title="User:Miwako Sato">Miwako Sato</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Miwako_Sato" title="User talk:Miwako Sato">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Miwako_Sato-20240615094800-Why_removed_templates?" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">09:48, 15 June 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-211" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:Miwako_Sato" title="User:Miwako Sato">Miwako Sato</a> Because they're no longer needed, as their original purpose (to save resources) is no longer applicable. Using them in Thai entries causes transliterations not to work, and the correct script formatting is not applied. <a href="/wiki/User:Theknightwho" title="User:Theknightwho">Theknightwho</a> (<a class="mw-selflink selflink">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Theknightwho-20240615134100-Miwako_Sato-20240615094800" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">13:41, 15 June 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-212" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Add_NKD2" data-mw-thread-id="h-Add_NKD2-20240619071200">Add NKD2</h2>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Theknightwho&action=edit&section=49" title="Edit section: Add NKD2">edit</a>]<div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata">Latest comment: <a href="#c-TongcyDai-20240619071800-Theknightwho-20240619071500">5 months ago</a>3 comments2 people in discussion</div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> Hi, since <a href="/wiki/Module:ja-pron" title="Module:ja-pron">Module:ja-pron</a> is fully-protected, can you add <code style="white-space:pre-wrap">{{<a href="/wiki/Template:R:Nihon_Kokugo_Daijiten_2_Online#top" title="Template:R:Nihon Kokugo Daijiten 2 Online">R:Nihon Kokugo Daijiten 2 Online</a>}}</code> as <code>NKD2</code> to the reference? --<a href="/wiki/User:TongcyDai" title="User:TongcyDai">TongcyDai</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:TongcyDai" title="User talk:TongcyDai">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-TongcyDai-20240619071200-Add_NKD2" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">07:12, 19 June 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-213" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:TongcyDai" title="User:TongcyDai">TongcyDai</a> Done. <a href="/wiki/User:Theknightwho" title="User:Theknightwho">Theknightwho</a> (<a class="mw-selflink selflink">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Theknightwho-20240619071500-TongcyDai-20240619071200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">07:15, 19 June 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-214" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>Thank you! --<a href="/wiki/User:TongcyDai" title="User:TongcyDai">TongcyDai</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:TongcyDai" title="User talk:TongcyDai">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-TongcyDai-20240619071800-Theknightwho-20240619071500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">07:18, 19 June 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-215" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Luftgeschaeft's_Pronounciation" data-mw-thread-id="h-Luftgeschaeft's_Pronounciation-20240619194100">Luftgeschaeft's Pronounciation</h2>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Theknightwho&action=edit&section=50" title="Edit section: Luftgeschaeft's Pronounciation">edit</a>]<div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata">Latest comment: <a href="#c-Shokomoshiko-20240619194100-Luftgeschaeft's_Pronounciation">5 months ago</a>1 comment1 person in discussion</div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> Hi, Please explain why have you deleted the pronounciation. If you felt that the IPA was sonewhat wrong, pelase update it and explain why. <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Shokomoshiko&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Shokomoshiko (page does not exist)">Shokomoshiko</a> (<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Shokomoshiko&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User talk:Shokomoshiko (page does not exist)">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Shokomoshiko-20240619194100-Luftgeschaeft's_Pronounciation" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:41, 19 June 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-216" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Asaf's_Pronounciation" data-mw-thread-id="h-Asaf's_Pronounciation-20240619194800">Asaf's Pronounciation</h2>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Theknightwho&action=edit&section=51" title="Edit section: Asaf's Pronounciation">edit</a>]<div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata">Latest comment: <a href="#c-Shokomoshiko-20240619194800-Asaf's_Pronounciation">5 months ago</a>1 comment1 person in discussion</div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> Hi again, you also deleted the pronounciation there. Please explain yourself. IDK if you're targetting me beacuse another community member specifically liked my addition. <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Shokomoshiko&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Shokomoshiko (page does not exist)">Shokomoshiko</a> (<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Shokomoshiko&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User talk:Shokomoshiko (page does not exist)">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Shokomoshiko-20240619194800-Asaf's_Pronounciation" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:48, 19 June 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-217" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="defaulting_`etym_lang_=_true`_in_Module:parameters?" data-mw-thread-id="h-defaulting_`etym_lang_=_true`_in_Module:parameters?-20240621083800">defaulting `etym_lang = true` in <a href="/wiki/Module:parameters" title="Module:parameters">Module:parameters</a>?</h2>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Theknightwho&action=edit&section=52" title="Edit section: defaulting `etym_lang = true` in Module:parameters?">edit</a>]<div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata">Latest comment: <a href="#c-Babr-20240720195500-Benwing2-20240622015900">4 months ago</a>10 comments3 people in discussion</div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> I'm doing a bit more work on <a href="/wiki/Module:parameters" title="Module:parameters">Module:parameters</a> and it occurs to me that it might either make sense to default `etym_lang = true` or maybe create another type that accepts languages and etym languages; maybe even make "language" do this and create another type "full language" that means "only full languages". Either way, we could (more or less programmatically) find all the cases that currently use 'type = "language"', convert the ones that don't explicitly allow etym languages to use `etym_lang = false` or `type = "full language"` (whatever we adopt) and then change the defaults. Then we audit the ones that don't accept etym languages and see how to make them accept them. I think the end goal is for all templates to accept etym languages and do the right thing with them (which in practice means converting to full languages when generating categories names containing the language; not sure what else needs to be done). Thoughts? <a href="/wiki/User:Benwing2" title="User:Benwing2">Benwing2</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Benwing2" title="User talk:Benwing2">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Benwing2-20240621083800-defaulting_`etym_lang_=_true`_in_Module:parameters?" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">08:38, 21 June 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-218" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:Benwing2" title="User:Benwing2">Benwing2</a> I agree with the change to have etym-only langs be allowed by default, but I don't know whether we'd ever want headword templates to accept them, since that's basically what defines the difference between full langs and etym-only langs (but I'm open to being persuaded otherwise). <a href="/wiki/User:Theknightwho" title="User:Theknightwho">Theknightwho</a> (<a class="mw-selflink selflink">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Theknightwho-20240621084600-Benwing2-20240621083800" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">08:46, 21 June 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-219" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>As it happens, <code style="white-space:pre-wrap">{{<a href="/wiki/Template:head#top" title="Template:head">head</a>}}</code> already accepts etym languages; I added that support with the thought that e.g. Dari-only or Classical-Persian-only terms might use the appropriate etym variant code to get the Dari or Classical Persian translit. But I agree that this might not make sense. What do you think as for whether full-language-only templates should use `etym_lang = false` or `type = "full language"`? I'm leaning towards the latter but could be persuaded otherwise. <a href="/wiki/User:Benwing2" title="User:Benwing2">Benwing2</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Benwing2" title="User talk:Benwing2">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Benwing2-20240621223400-Theknightwho-20240621084600" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:34, 21 June 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-220" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:Benwing2" title="User:Benwing2">Benwing2</a> Definitely the latter, since Lua's <code style="white-space:pre-wrap;" class="mw-highlight mw-highlight-lang-text mw-content-ltr" dir="ltr">nil</code> is falsy, so it fits the framework better.</dd> <dd><div class="paragraphbreak" style="margin-top:0.5em"></div></dd> <dd>In terms of etym-codes with <code style="white-space:pre-wrap">{{<a href="/wiki/Template:head#top" title="Template:head">head</a>}}</code>, I think there's scope for doing that more widely if we integrate <code style="white-space:pre-wrap">{{<a href="/wiki/Template:term-label#top" title="Template:term-label">tlb</a>}}</code> into it and automate labels if an etym-lang code is used. Is there any reason why Classical Persian can't be split out as its own L2 at this point? It seems to have separate separate handling for pretty much everything by now. <a href="/wiki/User:Theknightwho" title="User:Theknightwho">Theknightwho</a> (<a class="mw-selflink selflink">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Theknightwho-20240621224300-Benwing2-20240621223400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:43, 21 June 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-221" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:Theknightwho" title="User:Theknightwho">Theknightwho</a> You'd have to ask <a href="/wiki/User:Babr" title="User:Babr">User:Babr</a> about how similar written modern Persian and Classical Persian are. I note however that Dari has similar translit handling to Classical Persian but it's not clear to me it would be right to split out Dari since Dari and Iranian Persian are almost completely mutually intelligible and share the same written form.</dd> <dd>BTW on the topic of extending <code style="white-space:pre-wrap">{{<a href="/wiki/Template:head#top" title="Template:head">head</a>}}</code>: I've been thinking of creating a new version of <code style="white-space:pre-wrap">{{<a href="/wiki/Template:head#top" title="Template:head">head</a>}}</code>, maybe called <code style="white-space:pre-wrap">{{<a href="/w/index.php?title=Template:h%2B&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Template:h+ (page does not exist)">h+</a>}}</code> or something (or alternatively, repurpose <code style="white-space:pre-wrap">{{<a href="/wiki/Template:head#top" title="Template:head">h</a>}}</code> for this, since <code style="white-space:pre-wrap">{{<a href="/wiki/Template:head#top" title="Template:head">h</a>}}</code> is currently just an alias for <code style="white-space:pre-wrap">{{<a href="/wiki/Template:head#top" title="Template:head">head</a>}}</code> and used on only about 500 pages). It would have more modern-style args handling, e.g. there would be a single argument for each inflection with a separator between the name of the inflection and its value, and further inflection properties specified via inline modifiers rather than the awkward <code>|f3tr=</code> and such. Genders would be specified using a single <code>|g=</code> argument with comma-separated genders rather than <code>|g=</code>, <code>|g2=</code>, etc. Maybe we could even consider combining the POS and <code>|head=</code> arguments as well, I dunno. <a href="/wiki/User:Benwing2" title="User:Benwing2">Benwing2</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Benwing2" title="User talk:Benwing2">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Benwing2-20240621230600-Theknightwho-20240621224300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:06, 21 June 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-222" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:Benwing2" title="User:Benwing2">Benwing2</a> I like this idea, but if we're going to rebuild the template I'd prefer if we did something a bit more radical, by creating a framework for integrating language-specific modules. In other words, languages would all (very roughly) follow the same format in their headword template layouts, but custom parameters, functionality and display would be available. In most cases, I'd like it so that the only change to the end user would be from <code style="white-space:pre-wrap">{{<a href="/w/index.php?title=Template:xx-noun&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Template:xx-noun (page does not exist)">xx-noun</a>}}</code> to <code style="white-space:pre-wrap">{{<a href="/wiki/Template:head#top" title="Template:head">h</a>|xx|noun}}</code>.</dd> <dd><div class="paragraphbreak" style="margin-top:0.5em"></div></dd> <dd>The two major advantages are: <ol><li>This would ideally end the incentive for people to create pointless, underpowered headword templates, because I think most of it is basically just "they've got one, we should have one too".</li> <li>It would be an opportunity to create a framework for common features useful for certain language families or certain (sets of) scripts, so that smaller languages would more easily be able to take advantage of features developed for larger cousins without copy and pasting (i.e. forking). We've seen a bit of this already, with your work on Romance languages and the retrofitting of some Japanese modules to be language-neutral for the Ryukyuan languages, but it's a problem that'll keep recurring so long as most features are siloed off into language-specific modules.</li></ol></dd> <dd><a href="/wiki/User:Theknightwho" title="User:Theknightwho">Theknightwho</a> (<a class="mw-selflink selflink">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Theknightwho-20240622143800-Benwing2-20240621230600" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">14:38, 22 June 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-223" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>Yup, I think this is a good idea. I started writing a library a few months ago to help with creating language-specific headword modules, similar in spirit to the more-recently created <a href="/wiki/Module:parameter_utilities" title="Module:parameter utilities">Module:parameter utilities</a>. The intention at the time was to make it easier to create lang-specific headword templates in a more standardized fashion but I think having the support built into a new <code style="white-space:pre-wrap">{{<a href="/wiki/Template:head#top" title="Template:head">h</a>}}</code> would be even better. <a href="/wiki/User:Benwing2" title="User:Benwing2">Benwing2</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Benwing2" title="User talk:Benwing2">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Benwing2-20240622215100-Theknightwho-20240622143800" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:51, 22 June 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-224" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd> <dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:Theknightwho" title="User:Theknightwho">Theknightwho</a> @<a href="/wiki/User:Benwing2" title="User:Benwing2">Benwing2</a> this has come up before and there is pretty much unanimous consensus that splitting Persian would be more of a hassle for editors of all varieties than beneficial. If we split Persian the vast majority of entries would be the exact same spelling, with the exact same definitions and the exact same etymologies, with the only discernible difference being that they use different transliterations in the headword.</dd> <dd>Additionally, there would be a lot of logistical issues with how we would split modern varieties of Persian. The differences between modern varieties pretty much boils down to their reflexed pronunciations from Classical Persian, and while Iranian Persian had pretty extensive phonemic mergers, Tajik and Dari by-and-large did not (they did have phonemic mergers but not to the same extent). A split would be more plausible if those phonemic mergers were indicated in writing, but they arent.</dd> <dd>The solution, that @<a href="/wiki/User:Saranamd" title="User:Saranamd">Saranamd</a> and I have discussed and suggested before, is that because the reflexed pronunciations are typically very simple to predict, we could enter the classical transit and produce multiple transliterations. For example on the entry for 'lion' we would currently enter <code style="white-space:pre-wrap">{{<a href="/wiki/Template:fa-noun#top" title="Template:fa-noun">fa-noun</a>|tr=šir}}</code>, but because of phonemic mergers in IP, there is no way to decern any information relevant to other varieties from that. Whereas, if it was possible to enter the classical transliterations, we could enter something like <code style="white-space:pre-wrap">{{<a href="/wiki/Template:fa-noun#top" title="Template:fa-noun">fa-noun</a>|tr=šēr}}</code> and generate something like: <a href="/w/index.php?title=Template:User:Sameerhameedy/Sandbox&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Template:User:Sameerhameedy/Sandbox (page does not exist)">Template:User:Sameerhameedy/Sandbox</a>, from only filling out one parameter. Or, as another example, <a href="/w/index.php?title=Template:User:Sameerhameedy/Sandbox&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Template:User:Sameerhameedy/Sandbox (page does not exist)">Template:User:Sameerhameedy/Sandbox</a> by only entering <code style="white-space:pre-wrap">{{<a href="/wiki/Template:fa-noun#top" title="Template:fa-noun">fa-noun</a>|tr=bōra}}</code>. fa-IPA already generates multiple transliterations from the classical transliteration, so such a template would only need to fetch such romanizations, not generate them itself. — <a href="/wiki/User:Babr" title="User:Babr"> BABR</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Babr" title="User talk:Babr">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Babr-20240622014700-Theknightwho-20240621224300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:47, 22 June 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-225" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:Babr" title="User:Babr">Babr</a> I am generally in favor of such a solution although it would take some thinking to make sure it works transparently everywhere. <a href="/wiki/User:Benwing2" title="User:Benwing2">Benwing2</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Benwing2" title="User talk:Benwing2">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Benwing2-20240622015900-Babr-20240622014700" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:59, 22 June 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-226" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:Benwing2" title="User:Benwing2">Benwing2</a>, @<a href="/wiki/User:Theknightwho" title="User:Theknightwho">Theknightwho</a>, So, returning to this, I did make <a href="/wiki/Module:fa-translit" title="Module:fa-translit">Module:fa-translit</a> which can output two transliterations. I am not sure if this is a good solution but it was the only one I could think of that did not require rewriting hundreds of modules. However, if we consider using this, there are a few points that would need to be addressed: <ul><li>There is no way to override the Iranian romanization when it is incorrect.</li> <li>Ideally diacritics would be hidden when using the language codes <code>fa</code> or <code>prs</code> (though Saranamd requested that diacritics be removed for all varieties, which I am fine with TBH). <ul><li>For <code>fa</code>: this is because diacritics are used very differently in modern Iranian Persian vs how they were used in Classical Persian texts centuries ago, so showing diacritics could be confusing to readers.</li> <li>For <code>prs</code>: this is because there is no standardized diacritical notation; The classical notation is used for simplicity, but in reality, there are many different ways to vocalize the same text in Dari.</li></ul></li> <li>not sure what separator should be used between transliterations <code>; / ,</code> or <code>,</code>? There doesn't seem to be an agreed upon standard for this but FWIW Chinese uses <code>／</code> to separate traditional and simplified.</li> <li>only somewhat related, but it would be nice to have a template similar to <code style="white-space:pre-wrap">{{<a href="/wiki/Template:zh-q#top" title="Template:zh-q">zh-q</a>}}</code> that would automatically mark what transliteration is being used based on the lang code. I don't have the coding ability necessary to do such a thing right now but, as adding quotations is currently quite a hassle, I hope creating such a module is considered in the future.</li></ul></dd> <dd>Anyways, if either one of you has the time, please let me know your thoughts.</dd> <dd>— <a href="/wiki/User:Babr" title="User:Babr"> BABR</a>・<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Babr" title="User talk:Babr">talk</a> <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Babr-20240720195500-Benwing2-20240622015900" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:55, 20 July 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-227" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Template:kangxi-ws" data-mw-thread-id="h-Template:kangxi-ws-20240622182500"><a href="/wiki/Template:kangxi-ws" title="Template:kangxi-ws">Template:kangxi-ws</a></h2>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Theknightwho&action=edit&section=53" title="Edit section: Template:kangxi-ws">edit</a>]<div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata">Latest comment: <a href="#c-Theknightwho-20240622190000-MJL-20240622183200">5 months ago</a>4 comments2 people in discussion</div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> Check the <a class="external text" href="https://en.wiktionary.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3AWhatLinksHere%2FTemplate%3Akangxi-ws&hidelinks=1&hideredirs=1">transclusions</a> of this template. <a href="/wiki/Special:Diff/80461936" title="Special:Diff/80461936">This</a> completely breaks the links. –<a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:MJL" class="extiw" title="w:User:MJL">MJL</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:MJL" title="User talk:MJL">‐Talk‐</a><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:MJL/P" class="extiw" title="w:User:MJL/P">☖</a> <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-MJL-20240622182500-Template:kangxi-ws" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:25, 22 June 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-228" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:MJL" title="User:MJL">MJL</a> Alright - I'll do a proper fix. <a href="/wiki/User:Theknightwho" title="User:Theknightwho">Theknightwho</a> (<a class="mw-selflink selflink">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Theknightwho-20240622182800-MJL-20240622182500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:28, 22 June 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-229" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>Great; thank you. <abbr title="Smiling face" style="border-bottom: none;"><img src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/79/Face-smile.svg/18px-Face-smile.svg.png" decoding="async" width="18" height="18" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/79/Face-smile.svg/27px-Face-smile.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/79/Face-smile.svg/36px-Face-smile.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="48" data-file-height="48"/></abbr> –<a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:MJL" class="extiw" title="w:User:MJL">MJL</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:MJL" title="User talk:MJL">‐Talk‐</a><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:MJL/P" class="extiw" title="w:User:MJL/P">☖</a> <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-MJL-20240622183200-Theknightwho-20240622182800" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:32, 22 June 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-230" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:MJL" title="User:MJL">MJL</a> You may have to hang on a bit - I'm going to integrate <code style="white-space:pre-wrap">{{<a href="/wiki/Template:kangxi-ws#top" title="Template:kangxi-ws">kangxi-ws</a>}}</code> and <code style="white-space:pre-wrap">{{<a href="/wiki/Template:wikisource#top" title="Template:wikisource">wikisource</a>}}</code> into <a href="/wiki/Module:interproject" title="Module:interproject">Module:interproject</a>, but it might not be today, depending on how much time I have. <a href="/wiki/User:Theknightwho" title="User:Theknightwho">Theknightwho</a> (<a class="mw-selflink selflink">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Theknightwho-20240622190000-MJL-20240622183200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:00, 22 June 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-231" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Odd_module_error_at_軍" data-mw-thread-id="h-Odd_module_error_at_軍">Odd module error at <a href="/wiki/%E8%BB%8D" title="軍">軍</a></h2>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Theknightwho&action=edit&section=54" title="Edit section: Odd module error at 軍">edit</a>]</div> <a href="/wiki/Module:wuu-pron" title="Module:wuu-pron">Module:wuu-pron</a> is throwing an error with the message Lua error in Module wuu-pron at <a href="/wiki/Module:wuu-pron#L-131" title="Module:wuu-pron">line 131</a>: Invalid final: "iuwn". While it's true that @<a href="/wiki/User:Musetta6729" title="User:Musetta6729">Musetta6729</a> removed that final from <a href="/wiki/Module:wuu-pron/data" title="Module:wuu-pron/data">Module:wuu-pron/data</a> earlier in the day, there's no trace of it in the entry, and I can't follow the code well enough to figure out where it comes in. Complicating things has been work by @<a href="/wiki/User:Benwing2" title="User:Benwing2">Benwing2</a> on very basic parameter-related modules that might have interacted with something (there's also what bears all the marks of a massively-transcluded bug that probably lasted only a few <a href="/wiki/ohnosecond" title="ohnosecond">ohnoseconds</a> before it was fixed, but that has no bearing on this). Any ideas? <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="bad_deletion_of_fight_city_hall" data-mw-thread-id="h-bad_deletion_of_fight_city_hall-20240627023700">bad deletion of <a href="/w/index.php?title=fight_city_hall&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="fight city hall (page does not exist)">fight city hall</a></h2>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Theknightwho&action=edit&section=55" title="Edit section: bad deletion of fight city hall">edit</a>]<div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata">Latest comment: <a href="#c-Benwing2-20240627043900-Purplebackpack89-20240627042800">5 months ago</a>34 comments5 people in discussion</div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> Hello, I believe your deletion of <a href="/w/index.php?title=fight_city_hall&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="fight city hall (page does not exist)">fight city hall</a> was in error as it as an acceptable use of a redirect. As such, I am going to recreate it. Please do not delete it again without discussion <a href="/wiki/User:Purplebackpack89#top" title="User:Purplebackpack89">Purple</a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Purplebackpack89" title="User talk:Purplebackpack89">backpack89</a> <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Purplebackpack89-20240627023700-bad_deletion_of_fight_city_hall" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:37, 27 June 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-232" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>Furthermore, I believe some of your other redirect deletions were also in error, and were motivated by thoughts on creator, not content, so they will also be coming back, and, again, if you believe they should be deleted, start a discussion. <a href="/wiki/User:Purplebackpack89#top" title="User:Purplebackpack89">Purple</a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Purplebackpack89" title="User talk:Purplebackpack89">backpack89</a> <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Purplebackpack89-20240627024900-Purplebackpack89-20240627023700" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:49, 27 June 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-233" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:Purplebackpack89" title="User:Purplebackpack89">Purplebackpack89</a> All this tells me is that you're personally offended that I deleted something you created. Please stop creating redirects in mainspace. <a href="/wiki/User:Theknightwho" title="User:Theknightwho">Theknightwho</a> (<a class="mw-selflink selflink">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Theknightwho-20240627025100-Purplebackpack89-20240627024900" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:51, 27 June 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-234" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>Please stop deleting redirects in mainspace. If you believe consensus favors their deletion, RfD them instead of deleting them. <a href="/wiki/User:Purplebackpack89#top" title="User:Purplebackpack89">Purple</a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Purplebackpack89" title="User talk:Purplebackpack89">backpack89</a> <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Purplebackpack89-20240627025700-Theknightwho-20240627025100" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:57, 27 June 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-235" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:Purplebackpack89" title="User:Purplebackpack89">Purplebackpack89</a> It's impossible to have any kind of discussion with you about anything. <a href="/wiki/User:Theknightwho" title="User:Theknightwho">Theknightwho</a> (<a class="mw-selflink selflink">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Theknightwho-20240627025900-Purplebackpack89-20240627025700" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:59, 27 June 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-236" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd></dl></dd> <dd>Ha! Look in the mirror! YOU are literally the one avoiding discussion by speedy-deleting instead of RfDing. If you believe they should be deleted, what's the goddamn harm in starting an RfD? <a href="/wiki/User:Purplebackpack89#top" title="User:Purplebackpack89">Purple</a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Purplebackpack89" title="User talk:Purplebackpack89">backpack89</a> <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Purplebackpack89-20240627030100-Theknightwho-20240627025100" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">03:01, 27 June 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-237" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd> <dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:Purplebackpack89" title="User:Purplebackpack89">Purplebackpack89</a> We don't do redirects like that in mainspace, because this is a verb. <a href="/wiki/User:Theknightwho" title="User:Theknightwho">Theknightwho</a> (<a class="mw-selflink selflink">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Theknightwho-20240627025000-Purplebackpack89-20240627023700" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:50, 27 June 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-238" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>There is nothing in policy preventing those redirects. You either just don't like them, or you don't like me. You WOULDN'T have deleted them if they hadn't been created by another editor. <a href="/wiki/User:Purplebackpack89#top" title="User:Purplebackpack89">Purple</a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Purplebackpack89" title="User talk:Purplebackpack89">backpack89</a> <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Purplebackpack89-20240627025300-Theknightwho-20240627025000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:53, 27 June 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-239" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:Purplebackpack89" title="User:Purplebackpack89">Purplebackpack89</a> Yes I would. You just try to make every argument personal as a way to <a href="/wiki/poison_the_well" title="poison the well">poison the well</a>, and have done since you started contributing. You're not that special. <a href="/wiki/User:Theknightwho" title="User:Theknightwho">Theknightwho</a> (<a class="mw-selflink selflink">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Theknightwho-20240627025400-Purplebackpack89-20240627025300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:54, 27 June 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-240" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>Ugh, @<a href="/wiki/User:Benwing2" title="User:Benwing2">Benwing2</a>: I hate to ping you, but can we please get another admin monitoring this conflict? And to both parties, this clearly isn't going to go anywhere. And to Purplebackpack89, from my understanding, Theknightwho is correct in his assessment about redirects. <a href="/wiki/User:AG202" title="User:AG202">AG202</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:AG202" title="User talk:AG202">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-AG202-20240627025800-Theknightwho-20240627025400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:58, 27 June 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-241" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>Purplebackpack89 needs a long block, and if I need to I will happily show the substantial evidence that this is how they've behaved towards numerous contributors the entire time they've been contributing to Wiktionary. It's combative, manipulative and completely unacceptable. <a href="/wiki/User:Theknightwho" title="User:Theknightwho">Theknightwho</a> (<a class="mw-selflink selflink">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Theknightwho-20240627030100-AG202-20240627025800" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">03:01, 27 June 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-242" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>By the same logic, Theknightwho needs an equally-long block, and needs his tools taken away. There was a discussion of this only a few weeks ago, and no consensus to block emerged. And @<a href="/wiki/User:AG202" title="User:AG202">AG202</a>, I would disagree with that assessment, and what's the harm anyway in Theknightwho RfDing instead of speedy deleting. Again, I ask AG202, TheKnightwho, Benwing, anyone: what's the harm in just RfDing instead of speedy deletion? Why won't you answer this question? <a href="/wiki/User:Purplebackpack89#top" title="User:Purplebackpack89">Purple</a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Purplebackpack89" title="User talk:Purplebackpack89">backpack89</a> <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Purplebackpack89-20240627030400-Theknightwho-20240627030100" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">03:04, 27 June 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-243" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>You made this personal; not me. <a href="/wiki/User:Theknightwho" title="User:Theknightwho">Theknightwho</a> (<a class="mw-selflink selflink">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Theknightwho-20240627031200-Purplebackpack89-20240627030400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">03:12, 27 June 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-244" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>Cap. If these redirects really needed deletion, somebody else would have done it. It didn't have to be you. Some of the redirects you deleted had existed for months or even years and you're the only one who took issue. <a href="/wiki/User:Purplebackpack89#top" title="User:Purplebackpack89">Purple</a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Purplebackpack89" title="User talk:Purplebackpack89">backpack89</a> <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Purplebackpack89-20240627032100-Theknightwho-20240627031200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">03:21, 27 June 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-245" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:Purplebackpack89" title="User:Purplebackpack89">Purplebackpack89</a> This is another tactic you've tried many times before with other admins in the past: Metaknowledge, Ungoliant, Mglovesfun etc. etc. You make things personal any time anyone disagrees with you, so that you can claim you're being victimised. <a href="/wiki/User:Theknightwho" title="User:Theknightwho">Theknightwho</a> (<a class="mw-selflink selflink">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Theknightwho-20240627032700-Purplebackpack89-20240627032100" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">03:27, 27 June 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-246" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>Well, in some of those cases, it was true. <a href="/wiki/User:Purplebackpack89#top" title="User:Purplebackpack89">Purple</a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Purplebackpack89" title="User talk:Purplebackpack89">backpack89</a> <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Purplebackpack89-20240627033300-Theknightwho-20240627032700" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">03:33, 27 June 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-247" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd> <dd>Also, you've ignored the fundamental question: if the redirects were bad, why didn't somebody else delete em? <a href="/wiki/User:Purplebackpack89#top" title="User:Purplebackpack89">Purple</a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Purplebackpack89" title="User talk:Purplebackpack89">backpack89</a> <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Purplebackpack89-20240627033400-Theknightwho-20240627032700" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">03:34, 27 June 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-248" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>Because they probably didn't notice them. None of them had any views in the month prior to them being deleted. <a href="/wiki/User:Theknightwho" title="User:Theknightwho">Theknightwho</a> (<a class="mw-selflink selflink">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Theknightwho-20240627034500-Purplebackpack89-20240627033400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">03:45, 27 June 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-249" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd> <dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:AG202" title="User:AG202">AG202</a> Thanks for the ping. Here are my thoughts: <ol><li>As a general rule we disprefer hard redirects in favor of soft ones using <code style="white-space:pre-wrap">{{<a href="/wiki/Template:alternative_form_of#top" title="Template:alternative form of">alt form</a>}}</code> or the like.</li> <li>It seems to me it's OK to have <a href="/w/index.php?title=fight_City_Hall&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="fight City Hall (page does not exist)">fight City Hall</a> (note caps) and maybe <a href="/w/index.php?title=fight_city_hall&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="fight city hall (page does not exist)">fight city hall</a> as a soft redirect to <a href="/wiki/you_can%27t_fight_City_Hall" title="you can't fight City Hall">you can't fight City Hall</a>, because they occur in expressions like "it's impossible to fight City Hall" and "sometimes one can fight City Hall". OTOH, <a href="/wiki/busted_my_neck" title="busted my neck">busted my neck</a> (which I see was also deleted by <a href="/wiki/User:Theknightwho" title="User:Theknightwho">User:Theknightwho</a>) is not acceptable even as a soft redirect because it uses the past tense, and verbs are lemmatized in the infinitive.</li> <li><a href="/wiki/User:Purplebackpack89" title="User:Purplebackpack89">User:Purplebackpack89</a>, please assume good faith on the part of <a href="/wiki/User:Theknightwho" title="User:Theknightwho">User:Theknightwho</a>. It's not helpful to claim he's personally targeting you or that he should refrain from reviewing your changes just because it's you.</li> <li>As a general rule, edit warring is a no-no, and may well result in blocking. What that means is that if you believe a change to your contribution was made erroneously, you should not redo your contribution (which would be edit warring), but contact the person who made the change on their talk page, and if that doesn't seem to be working, bring it up in the Beer parlour.</li></ol></dd> <dd><a href="/wiki/User:Benwing2" title="User:Benwing2">Benwing2</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Benwing2" title="User talk:Benwing2">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Benwing2-20240627033400-Theknightwho-20240627031200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">03:34, 27 June 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-250" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>OTOH, this could've also been avoided if Knight had RfDed the redirects instead of speedily-deleting. Isn't speedy-deleting mostly supposed to be used for just vandalism anyway? <a href="/wiki/User:Purplebackpack89#top" title="User:Purplebackpack89">Purple</a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Purplebackpack89" title="User talk:Purplebackpack89">backpack89</a> <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Purplebackpack89-20240627034500-Benwing2-20240627033400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">03:45, 27 June 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-251" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd> <dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:Benwing2" title="User:Benwing2">Benwing2</a> There is some level of harassment going on here: PB89 has now written on multiple users' talkpages about this particular incident (<a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wiktionary.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Chuck_Entz&diff=prev&oldid=80523015">[4]</a> <a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wiktionary.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:AG202&diff=prev&oldid=80522929">[5]</a>) and originally wrote a BP thread (since removed) (<a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wiktionary.org/w/index.php?title=Wiktionary:Beer_parlour/2024/June&diff=prev&oldid=80522890">[6]</a>). This kind of thing happened last time, and it's quite frustrating that this keeps getting written off as tit-for-tat, when they've been doing this kind of thing to multiple contributors for many years. <a href="/wiki/User:Theknightwho" title="User:Theknightwho">Theknightwho</a> (<a class="mw-selflink selflink">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Theknightwho-20240627034900-Benwing2-20240627033400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">03:49, 27 June 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-252" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading3"><h3 id="busted_my_neck" data-mw-thread-id="h-busted_my_neck-bad_deletion_of_fight_city_hall-20240627040600"><a href="/wiki/busted_my_neck" title="busted my neck">busted my neck</a></h3>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Theknightwho&action=edit&section=56" title="Edit section: busted my neck">edit</a>]</div> FYI, the most recent creation of <a href="/wiki/busted_my_neck" title="busted my neck">busted my neck</a> is a conjugation/inflection, not a redirect, so your rationale is in error. Also, half of what you said was an attack. If you want to RfD the inflection, please start a different RfD. 04:00, 27 June 2024 (UTC) <dl><dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:Benwing2" title="User:Benwing2">Benwing2</a> since you're being tagged in everything, please note that Theknightwho made an inaccurate RfD. <a href="/wiki/User:Purplebackpack89#top" title="User:Purplebackpack89">Purple</a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Purplebackpack89" title="User talk:Purplebackpack89">backpack89</a> <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Purplebackpack89-20240627040600-busted_my_neck" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">04:06, 27 June 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-253" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:Purplebackpack89" title="User:Purplebackpack89">Purplebackpack89</a> It's a soft redirect, which is what Ben refers to above, too. Do not remove nominations at RFD by other contributors as you did here (<a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wiktionary.org/w/index.php?title=Wiktionary:Requests_for_deletion/English&diff=prev&oldid=80523148">[7]</a>), even if you disagree with them. <a href="/wiki/User:Theknightwho" title="User:Theknightwho">Theknightwho</a> (<a class="mw-selflink selflink">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Theknightwho-20240627040700-Purplebackpack89-20240627040600" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">04:07, 27 June 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-254" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>OK, I'll instead close it as speedy keep <a href="/wiki/User:Purplebackpack89#top" title="User:Purplebackpack89">Purple</a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Purplebackpack89" title="User talk:Purplebackpack89">backpack89</a> <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Purplebackpack89-20240627040900-Theknightwho-20240627040700" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">04:09, 27 June 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-255" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>Could an uninvolved admin please handle this? Deleting a thread at RFD and intentionally misunderstanding what a soft-redirect is to wrongly speedy keep something is block-worthy behaviour, in my view. @<a href="/wiki/User:Vininn126" title="User:Vininn126">Vininn126</a> @<a href="/wiki/User:Thadh" title="User:Thadh">Thadh</a> @<a href="/wiki/User:Chuck_Entz" title="User:Chuck Entz">Chuck Entz</a> <a href="/wiki/User:Theknightwho" title="User:Theknightwho">Theknightwho</a> (<a class="mw-selflink selflink">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Theknightwho-20240627041200-Purplebackpack89-20240627040900" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">04:12, 27 June 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-256" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>Could an uninvolved admin please handle TheKnightwho? He should've backed away from this awhile back but he keeps just ramping it up, ramping it up, ramping it up. Any block of me should be met with a block of equal length of Theknightwho. <a href="/wiki/User:Purplebackpack89#top" title="User:Purplebackpack89">Purple</a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Purplebackpack89" title="User talk:Purplebackpack89">backpack89</a> <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Purplebackpack89-20240627041500-Theknightwho-20240627041200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">04:15, 27 June 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-257" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>You asked me to RFD them instead of speedy deleting them, so I did. You recreated <a href="/wiki/busted_my_neck#English" title="busted my neck">busted my neck</a> as a soft redirect after Benwing2 explicitly told you that it wouldn't be acceptable as one, so I pointed out that you were being disruptive. Which are you.</dd> <dd><div class="paragraphbreak" style="margin-top:0.5em"></div></dd> <dd>There's no winning with you - whatever anyone does, you'll always claim to be a victim if you don't get exactly what you want. <a href="/wiki/User:Theknightwho" title="User:Theknightwho">Theknightwho</a> (<a class="mw-selflink selflink">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Theknightwho-20240627042400-Purplebackpack89-20240627041500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">04:24, 27 June 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-258" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd> <dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:Purplebackpack89" title="User:Purplebackpack89">Purplebackpack89</a> Do not do that. You know (or should know) about <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WP:Point" class="extiw" title="w:WP:Point">WP:Point</a>. Just because you don't like an RFD doesn't give you license to delete the RFD, speedy-close an RFD as kept or otherwise act disruptively. In this case I agree with <a href="/wiki/User:Theknightwho" title="User:Theknightwho">User:Theknightwho</a> that your behavior is getting to the point of being block-worthy. <a href="/wiki/User:Benwing2" title="User:Benwing2">Benwing2</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Benwing2" title="User talk:Benwing2">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Benwing2-20240627041500-Purplebackpack89-20240627040900" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">04:15, 27 June 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-259" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:Benwing2" title="User:Benwing2">Benwing2</a> So Theknightwho is allowed to create an RfD that's an attack of me and I'm not allowed any recourse? The RfD itself was disruptive. We are in a content dispute and both of us are equally guilty here. Furthermore, what policy prevents a speedy close such as that? NONE. <a href="/wiki/User:Purplebackpack89#top" title="User:Purplebackpack89">Purple</a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Purplebackpack89" title="User talk:Purplebackpack89">backpack89</a> <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Purplebackpack89-20240627041700-Benwing2-20240627041500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">04:17, 27 June 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-260" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:Purplebackpack89" title="User:Purplebackpack89">Purplebackpack89</a> I don't understand why creating an RFD is an attack. You actually suggested yourself above that <a href="/wiki/User:Theknightwho" title="User:Theknightwho">User:Theknightwho</a> should create an RFD instead of speedy-deleting a hard redirect. As I mentioned above, you need to assume good faith, which you don't seem to be doing in the case of Theknightwho. <a href="/wiki/User:Benwing2" title="User:Benwing2">Benwing2</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Benwing2" title="User talk:Benwing2">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Benwing2-20240627042500-Purplebackpack89-20240627041700" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">04:25, 27 June 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-261" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>Did you read the nomination? Knight uses the RfD to attack me and make claims that I am being disruptive. <a href="/wiki/User:Purplebackpack89#top" title="User:Purplebackpack89">Purple</a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Purplebackpack89" title="User talk:Purplebackpack89">backpack89</a> <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Purplebackpack89-20240627042800-Benwing2-20240627042500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">04:28, 27 June 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-262" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:Purplebackpack89" title="User:Purplebackpack89">Purplebackpack89</a> TKW expressed his personal opinion ("in my view") that your actions are disruptive. IMO that's not an attack (not to mention that your actions since then *have* been disruptive). If he did it repeatedly and without good reason it might well be a personal attack but not in this single instance. I have asked you repeatedly to assume good faith, and you have repeatedly ignored this request. Assume Good Faith is a cornerstone principle that is absolutely necessary for harmonious interactions in a wiki; without it, things rapidly degenerate into flame wars. <a href="/wiki/User:Benwing2" title="User:Benwing2">Benwing2</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Benwing2" title="User talk:Benwing2">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Benwing2-20240627043900-Purplebackpack89-20240627042800" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">04:39, 27 June 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-263" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd> <dd>Purple, in my view the way you handed the situation was not appropriate. Frankly, since you are a Wikipedia editor and closing/deleting RFD's you are involved in is a block-able offense over there, I think you should have known that it wasn't appropriate. That being said, please look at <a href="/wiki/Wiktionary:Redirections#Acceptable_uses" title="Wiktionary:Redirections">WT:Redirections#Acceptable uses</a>, there are very few situations where redirections are considered appropriate on WT. If you feel that this was an appropriate situation you can mention that on the RFD, but please stop edit warring. — <a href="/wiki/User:Babr" title="User:Babr"> BABR</a>・<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Babr" title="User talk:Babr">talk</a> <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Babr-20240627042900-Purplebackpack89-20240627041700" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">04:29, 27 June 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-264" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd></dl></dd> <dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:Benwing2" title="User:Benwing2">Benwing2</a> Just FYI, they (effectively) edit-warred me reinstating the RFD by immediately trying to close it as a speedy keep (<a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wiktionary.org/w/index.php?title=Wiktionary:Requests_for_deletion/English&diff=prev&oldid=80523226">[8]</a>), and after I reversed that (<a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wiktionary.org/w/index.php?title=Wiktionary:Requests_for_deletion/English&diff=prev&oldid=80523234">[9]</a>) they then removed the RFD notice at the entry anyway (<a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wiktionary.org/w/index.php?title=busted_my_neck&diff=prev&oldid=80523237">[10]</a>). They objectively are being extremely disruptive: it's a statement of fact, not an attack. <a href="/wiki/User:Theknightwho" title="User:Theknightwho">Theknightwho</a> (<a class="mw-selflink selflink">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Theknightwho-20240627042000-Benwing2-20240627041500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">04:20, 27 June 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-265" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Japanese_errors" data-mw-thread-id="h-Japanese_errors-20240628050800">Japanese errors</h2>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Theknightwho&action=edit&section=57" title="Edit section: Japanese errors">edit</a>]<div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata">Latest comment: <a href="#c-Benwing2-20240629072800-Theknightwho-20240629065000">4 months ago</a>24 comments2 people in discussion</div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> Hi. Are you going to fix the Japanese yomi-related errors? They keep increasing. <a href="/wiki/User:Benwing2" title="User:Benwing2">Benwing2</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Benwing2" title="User talk:Benwing2">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Benwing2-20240628050800-Japanese_errors" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">05:08, 28 June 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-266" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:Benwing2" title="User:Benwing2">Benwing2</a> Yes, but the actual entries need fixing. <a href="/wiki/User:Theknightwho" title="User:Theknightwho">Theknightwho</a> (<a class="mw-selflink selflink">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Theknightwho-20240628051200-Benwing2-20240628050800" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">05:12, 28 June 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-267" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>Sure, I get that. It's just that these sorts of errors have been sitting there since I logged on c. 12 hours ago. <a href="/wiki/User:Benwing2" title="User:Benwing2">Benwing2</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Benwing2" title="User talk:Benwing2">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Benwing2-20240628051600-Theknightwho-20240628051200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">05:16, 28 June 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-268" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>Hey also, <a href="/wiki/Special:WantedCategories" title="Special:WantedCategories">Special:WantedCategories</a> just refreshed and there are quite a lot of new categories of the form <a href="/wiki/Category:Japanese_terms_spelled_with_%E7%B4%97_read_as_%E3%81%95" title="Category:Japanese terms spelled with 紗 read as さ">Category:Japanese terms spelled with 紗 read as さ</a>. I checked one of the terms in this category and it looks legit; was there a mistake in the category generation before that was causing a lot of these categories to be missed? BTW I have a script that tries to autopopulate the correct reading type for categories of this nature. If all the new categories of this form in <a href="/wiki/Special:WantedCategories" title="Special:WantedCategories">Special:WantedCategories</a> are legit, I'll go ahead and run the script. <a href="/wiki/User:Benwing2" title="User:Benwing2">Benwing2</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Benwing2" title="User talk:Benwing2">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Benwing2-20240628054500-Benwing2-20240628051600" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">05:45, 28 June 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-269" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:Benwing2" title="User:Benwing2">Benwing2</a> So I've basically been sorting out some of the messiness in <a href="/wiki/Module:kanjitab" title="Module:kanjitab">Module:kanjitab</a>, as I wanted to sync up <a href="/wiki/Module:category_tree/poscatboiler/data/lang-specific/jpx" title="Module:category tree/poscatboiler/data/lang-specific/jpx">Module:category tree/poscatboiler/data/lang-specific/jpx</a> with it in terms of how yomi (readings) get handled, but in the process I did a heavy rewrite of that part of the module. The main things are: <ul><li>The new errors are due to an extra safety check on jukujikun, which are (by definition) compound readings. Quite a few instances of <code style="white-space:pre-wrap">{{<a href="/wiki/Template:ja-kanjitab#top" title="Template:ja-kanjitab">ja-kanjitab</a>}}</code> have had the relevant characters marked as jukujikun, but the reading has been apportioned between them instead of being shared as an indivisible unit, so it now throws an error if you say that a single kanji reading is jukujikun, and explains how to solve it.</li> <li>Previously, only <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/j%C5%8Dy%C5%8D_kanji" class="extiw" title="w:jōyō kanji">jōyō kanji</a> "with exceptions" had categorisation for individual readings, but the exception list had grown so massive that I just removed it altogether. Given some of the largest uncreated categories have >100 members, I think this was justified. Most seem to be <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ky%C5%ABjitai" class="extiw" title="w:kyūjitai">kyūjitai</a>, but that's by-the-by.</li> <li>I've extracted the yomi data into <a href="/wiki/Module:kanjitab/data" title="Module:kanjitab/data">Module:kanjitab/data</a>, and it's shared between that and the jpx category tree module, which enables full synchronisation. The last thing to do is to synchronise the input yomi parameter for <code style="white-space:pre-wrap">{{<a href="/wiki/Template:auto_cat#top" title="Template:auto cat">auto cat</a>}}</code> for categories like <a href="/wiki/Category:Japanese_terms_spelled_with_%E7%B4%97_read_as_%E3%81%95" title="Category:Japanese terms spelled with 紗 read as さ">Category:Japanese terms spelled with 紗 read as さ</a>, because it makes sense for that to accept the same inputs as kanjitab (e.g. <code style="white-space:pre-wrap">{{<a href="/wiki/Template:auto_cat#top" title="Template:auto cat">auto cat</a>|k}}</code> would be treated as kun'yomi), and for it to throw an error if an invalid yomi type is entered. This also means we can get rid of the disjoint between <a href="/w/index.php?title=Category:Japanese_terms_spelled_with_kanji_with_on_readings&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category:Japanese terms spelled with kanji with on readings (page does not exist)">Category:Japanese terms spelled with kanji with on readings</a> (terms with at least one on'yomi kanji) and <a href="/wiki/Category:Japanese_terms_read_with_on%27yomi" title="Category:Japanese terms read with on'yomi">Category:Japanese terms read with on'yomi</a> (terms that only have on'yomi kanji), by moving the former to <a href="/wiki/Category:Japanese_terms_spelled_with_kanji_with_on%27yomi_readings" title="Category:Japanese terms spelled with kanji with on'yomi readings">Category:Japanese terms spelled with kanji with on'yomi readings</a>, as the only reason it uses "on" is because there are hundreds of instances of <code style="white-space:pre-wrap">{{<a href="/wiki/Template:auto_cat#top" title="Template:auto cat">auto cat</a>|on}}</code> treating "on" as literal.</li> <li>If we ever have need to add new yomi types in the future, adding them to the data module will add them to kanjitab and the category tree at the same time.</li></ul></dd> <dd>Given <a href="/wiki/Module:kanjitab/data" title="Module:kanjitab/data">Module:kanjitab/data</a> has quite a few fields that are only relevant to the category tree, it might be better at some other location, but I'm not sure where yet. <a href="/wiki/User:Theknightwho" title="User:Theknightwho">Theknightwho</a> (<a class="mw-selflink selflink">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Theknightwho-20240628061100-Benwing2-20240628054500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">06:11, 28 June 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-270" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>OK thanks for the detailed info. What are your plans for the remaining work and do you need my help? As I mentioned, I have a script that I've been running periodically to populate the reading type in the <code style="white-space:pre-wrap">{{<a href="/wiki/Template:auto_cat#top" title="Template:auto cat">auto cat</a>}}</code> call for the 'Japanese terms spelled with FOO read as BAR' categories, since <code style="white-space:pre-wrap">{{<a href="/wiki/Template:auto_cat#top" title="Template:auto cat">auto cat</a>}}</code> will throw an error otherwise. The script is here: <a rel="nofollow" class="external autonumber" href="https://github.com/benwing2/RuNounChanges/blob/master/add_ja_terms_spelled_with_cats.py">[11]</a> and it looks both in <code style="white-space:pre-wrap">{{<a href="/wiki/Template:ja-readings#top" title="Template:ja-readings">ja-readings</a>}}</code> and <code style="white-space:pre-wrap">{{<a href="/wiki/Template:ja-kanjitab#top" title="Template:ja-kanjitab">ja-kanjitab</a>}}</code>. I presume that script will need updating (maybe?), since you are planning on changing the reading abbreviations. Let me know when you want me to run that script and how to fix it up to account for the new abbreviations. In terms of making the actual abbreviation change in the <code style="white-space:pre-wrap">{{<a href="/wiki/Template:auto_cat#top" title="Template:auto cat">auto cat</a>}}</code> call, that would require another bot script but it should be extremely easy. <a href="/wiki/User:Benwing2" title="User:Benwing2">Benwing2</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Benwing2" title="User talk:Benwing2">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Benwing2-20240628062200-Theknightwho-20240628061100" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">06:22, 28 June 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-271" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:Benwing2" title="User:Benwing2">Benwing2</a> I'm just working out the final snags on the <code style="white-space:pre-wrap">{{<a href="/wiki/Template:auto_cat#top" title="Template:auto cat">auto cat</a>}}</code> parameter, and then I'll start the clean-up work in entries.</dd> <dd><div class="paragraphbreak" style="margin-top:0.5em"></div></dd> <dd>In terms of the reading abbreviations, we might need to change them for some of the less common ones, since kanjitab's set of inputs is a bit eclectic. I'll document the kanjitab data module, as that should make it straightforward for you to update your script, but the short version is that each yomi's data value exists in the table under every alias key, since that means it can be treated as a lookup table. <a href="/wiki/User:Theknightwho" title="User:Theknightwho">Theknightwho</a> (<a class="mw-selflink selflink">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Theknightwho-20240628063500-Benwing2-20240628062200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">06:35, 28 June 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-272" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>OK thanks! I'll wait to run my script until you've indicated how to update it. As long as it gets done within 3 days (which is the update frequency for <a href="/wiki/Special:WantedCategories" title="Special:WantedCategories">Special:WantedCategories</a>) it should be fine. <a href="/wiki/User:Benwing2" title="User:Benwing2">Benwing2</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Benwing2" title="User talk:Benwing2">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Benwing2-20240628063800-Theknightwho-20240628063500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">06:38, 28 June 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-273" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:Benwing2" title="User:Benwing2">Benwing2</a> I've just checked, and it breaks any that have apostrophes and macrons (since kanjitab never supported those as raw inputs). Given that affects most of them, I'll set all the canonical names as aliases which should avoid the issue. I think it would be sensible to sort out the kanjitab yomi specs at some point, as they're arbitrary and unintuitive: kun'yomi is <code style="white-space:pre-wrap;" class="mw-highlight mw-highlight-lang-text mw-content-ltr" dir="ltr">kun</code> or <code style="white-space:pre-wrap;" class="mw-highlight mw-highlight-lang-text mw-content-ltr" dir="ltr">k</code>, kan'yōon is <code style="white-space:pre-wrap;" class="mw-highlight mw-highlight-lang-text mw-content-ltr" dir="ltr">kan</code>, which means kan'on (10x as common) has to be <code style="white-space:pre-wrap;" class="mw-highlight mw-highlight-lang-text mw-content-ltr" dir="ltr">kanon</code>, and so on. <a href="/wiki/User:Theknightwho" title="User:Theknightwho">Theknightwho</a> (<a class="mw-selflink selflink">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Theknightwho-20240628064700-Benwing2-20240628063800" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">06:47, 28 June 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-274" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>Sorry, what do you mean by "it breaks any that have apostrophes and macrons"? <a href="/wiki/User:Benwing2" title="User:Benwing2">Benwing2</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Benwing2" title="User talk:Benwing2">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Benwing2-20240628065100-Theknightwho-20240628064700" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">06:51, 28 June 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-275" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:Benwing2" title="User:Benwing2">Benwing2</a> So <code style="white-space:pre-wrap">{{<a href="/wiki/Template:auto_cat#top" title="Template:auto cat">auto cat</a>}}</code> currently treats the inputs as literals, which means you have to put <code style="white-space:pre-wrap">{{<a href="/wiki/Template:auto_cat#top" title="Template:auto cat">auto cat</a>|tōon}}</code> or whatever. Since kanjitab's aliases were all lowercase ASCII, fully synchronising auto cat and kanjitab causes any inputs like that one to throw an error, since it doesn't see them in the list of valid yomi inputs. Out of the 8 valid yomi types for those kinds of categories, 6 have an apostrophe and/or macron, so I've changed <a href="/wiki/Module:kanjitab/data" title="Module:kanjitab/data">Module:kanjitab/data</a> to add the canonical names as an alias for each type, which fixes the problem. <a href="/wiki/User:Theknightwho" title="User:Theknightwho">Theknightwho</a> (<a class="mw-selflink selflink">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Theknightwho-20240628070500-Benwing2-20240628065100" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">07:05, 28 June 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-276" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>Thanks! <a href="/wiki/User:Benwing2" title="User:Benwing2">Benwing2</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Benwing2" title="User talk:Benwing2">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Benwing2-20240628075200-Theknightwho-20240628070500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">07:52, 28 June 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-277" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>Do you mind if I run my script to infer the correct reading types? I think the only things needing changing, if anything, are the following settings at the top:</dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <pre>allowed_reading_types = ["goon", "kanon", "toon", "soon", "kanyoon", "on", "kun", "nanori"] canonicalize_reading_types = { "kanon": "kan'on", "toon": "tōon", "soon": "sōon", "kanyoon": "kan'yōon", } </pre> <dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd>along with this table farther down:</dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <pre> yomi_to_canonical_reading_type = { "o": "on", "on": "on", "kanon": "kanon", "goon": "goon", "soon": "soon", "toon": "toon", "kan": "kanyoon", "kanyo": "kanyoon", "kanyoon": "kanyoon", "k": "kun", "kun": "kun", "juku": "jukujikun", "jukuji": "jukujikun", "jukujikun": "jukujikun", "n": "nanori", "nanori": "nanori", "ok": "jubakoyomi", "j": "jubakoyomi", "ko": "yutoyomi", "y": "yutoyomi", "irr": "irregular", "irreg": "irregular", "irregular": "irregular", } </pre> Note that the <code style="white-space:pre-wrap;" class="mw-highlight mw-highlight-lang-text mw-content-ltr" dir="ltr">canonicalize_reading_types</code> map operates on the output of <code style="white-space:pre-wrap;" class="mw-highlight mw-highlight-lang-text mw-content-ltr" dir="ltr">yomi_to_canonical_reading_type</code>, so an original yomi value of <code style="white-space:pre-wrap;" class="mw-highlight mw-highlight-lang-text mw-content-ltr" dir="ltr">kan</code> maps to <code style="white-space:pre-wrap;" class="mw-highlight mw-highlight-lang-text mw-content-ltr" dir="ltr">kanyoon</code> and then to <code style="white-space:pre-wrap;" class="mw-highlight mw-highlight-lang-text mw-content-ltr" dir="ltr">kan'yōon</code>, which goes into the <code style="white-space:pre-wrap">{{<a href="/wiki/Template:auto_cat#top" title="Template:auto cat">auto cat</a>}}</code> call. <a href="/wiki/User:Benwing2" title="User:Benwing2">Benwing2</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Benwing2" title="User talk:Benwing2">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Benwing2-20240629024300-Japanese_errors" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:43, 29 June 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-278" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:Benwing2" title="User:Benwing2">Benwing2</a> Go ahead. As of yesterday <code style="white-space:pre-wrap">{{<a href="/wiki/Template:auto_cat#top" title="Template:auto cat">auto cat</a>}}</code> now accepts all the same inputs as <code style="white-space:pre-wrap">{{<a href="/wiki/Template:ja-kanjitab#top" title="Template:ja-kanjitab">ja-kanjitab</a>}}</code>, so you don't need to canonicalise from <code style="white-space:pre-wrap;" class="mw-highlight mw-highlight-lang-text mw-content-ltr" dir="ltr">kanyoon</code> to <code style="white-space:pre-wrap;" class="mw-highlight mw-highlight-lang-text mw-content-ltr" dir="ltr">kan'yōon</code> etc. It was just necessary to grandfather that in so that we didn't need to amend hundreds of pre-existing categories that already use the canonical name. You don't even need to bother with the first step either - it'd be easier to just use whatever codes have been put into kanjitab, since the codes for the two templates are directly synchronised via <a href="/wiki/Module:kanjitab/data" title="Module:kanjitab/data">Module:kanjitab/data</a>. <a href="/wiki/User:Theknightwho" title="User:Theknightwho">Theknightwho</a> (<a class="mw-selflink selflink">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Theknightwho-20240629024700-Benwing2-20240629024300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:47, 29 June 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-279" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>OK, I'll disable the step that runs the <code style="white-space:pre-wrap;" class="mw-highlight mw-highlight-lang-text mw-content-ltr" dir="ltr">canonicalize_reading_types</code> mapping. <a href="/wiki/User:Benwing2" title="User:Benwing2">Benwing2</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Benwing2" title="User talk:Benwing2">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Benwing2-20240629025100-Theknightwho-20240629024700" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:51, 29 June 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-280" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>OK just one more question, are the existing errors in <a href="/wiki/Category:E" class="mw-redirect" title="Category:E">CAT:E</a> going to cause issues, e.g. <a href="/wiki/%E7%94%B2%E7%83%8F%E8%B3%8A" title="甲烏賊">甲烏賊</a>? I don't really understand what the issue is regarding these errors or why they're difficult to fix. <a href="/wiki/User:Benwing2" title="User:Benwing2">Benwing2</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Benwing2" title="User talk:Benwing2">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Benwing2-20240629025400-Benwing2-20240629025100" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:54, 29 June 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-281" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:Benwing2" title="User:Benwing2">Benwing2</a> They shouldn't, because they're all caused by jukujikun being applied to single kanji, as the template now restricts it to indivisible multi-kanji readings, since that's (by definition) what they are. We don't generate categories for jukujikun other than the general "spelled with" and "read with" categories, since they can't apply to individual kanji.</dd> <dd><div class="paragraphbreak" style="margin-top:0.5em"></div></dd> <dd>On a separate note, I think we need to clean up the "terms spelled with Y" (contains at least one Y yomi) and "read with Y" (consists entirely of Y yomi) categories, since I honestly don't think the latter is particularly useful. <a href="/wiki/User:Theknightwho" title="User:Theknightwho">Theknightwho</a> (<a class="mw-selflink selflink">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Theknightwho-20240629030600-Benwing2-20240629025400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">03:06, 29 June 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-282" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>What's an example of the latter category? <a href="/wiki/User:Benwing2" title="User:Benwing2">Benwing2</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Benwing2" title="User talk:Benwing2">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Benwing2-20240629031900-Theknightwho-20240629030600" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">03:19, 29 June 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-283" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:Benwing2" title="User:Benwing2">Benwing2</a> For single-kanji yomi, the "spelled with kanji with X" categories are one of the umbrella categories for the "KANJI read as YOMI" categories, while the "read with X" category is just a big list of everything purely read with that yomi type. <ol><li><a href="/wiki/Category:Japanese_terms_spelled_with_kanji_with_on%27yomi_readings" title="Category:Japanese terms spelled with kanji with on'yomi readings">Category:Japanese terms spelled with kanji with on'yomi readings</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Category:Japanese_terms_read_with_on%27yomi" title="Category:Japanese terms read with on'yomi">Category:Japanese terms read with on'yomi</a></li></ol></dd> <dd>However, we've also got these two, which seems to be a mistake, since the only difference is that <code style="white-space:pre-wrap">{{<a href="/wiki/Template:ja-jukujikun#top" title="Template:ja-jukujikun">juku</a>}}</code> puts them in one, while <code style="white-space:pre-wrap">{{<a href="/wiki/Template:ja-kanjitab#top" title="Template:ja-kanjitab">ja-kanjitab</a>}}</code> puts them in the other. <ol><li><a href="/wiki/Category:Japanese_terms_spelled_with_jukujikun" title="Category:Japanese terms spelled with jukujikun">Category:Japanese terms spelled with jukujikun</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Category:Japanese_terms_read_with_jukujikun" title="Category:Japanese terms read with jukujikun">Category:Japanese terms read with jukujikun</a></li></ol></dd> <dd><a href="/wiki/User:Theknightwho" title="User:Theknightwho">Theknightwho</a> (<a class="mw-selflink selflink">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Theknightwho-20240629032600-Benwing2-20240629031900" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">03:26, 29 June 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-284" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>OK, feel free to hack away and let me know if you need any bot category deletion work. My script to autopopulate things like <a href="/wiki/Category:Japanese_terms_spelled_with_%E5%84%B2_read_as_%E3%82%82%E3%81%86" title="Category:Japanese terms spelled with 儲 read as もう">Category:Japanese terms spelled with 儲 read as もう</a> is currently running. <a href="/wiki/User:Benwing2" title="User:Benwing2">Benwing2</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Benwing2" title="User talk:Benwing2">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Benwing2-20240629033300-Theknightwho-20240629032600" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">03:33, 29 June 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-285" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>Thanks. <a href="/wiki/User:Theknightwho" title="User:Theknightwho">Theknightwho</a> (<a class="mw-selflink selflink">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Theknightwho-20240629033400-Benwing2-20240629033300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">03:34, 29 June 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-286" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>Script is done running. It processed 3,741 pages and saved <code style="white-space:pre-wrap">{{<a href="/wiki/Template:auto_cat#top" title="Template:auto cat">auto cat</a>}}</code> onto 3,634 of them. 105 were skipped due to not being able to infer the reading type; presumably the remaining 2 were already done. The ones where the reading type couldn't be inferred seem to be cases where the source pages leave out the <code>|yomi=</code> param in the <code style="white-space:pre-wrap">{{<a href="/wiki/Template:ja-kanjitab#top" title="Template:ja-kanjitab">ja-kanjitab</a>}}</code> call. These should ideally be fixed. <a href="/wiki/User:Benwing2" title="User:Benwing2">Benwing2</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Benwing2" title="User talk:Benwing2">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Benwing2-20240629061900-Theknightwho-20240629033400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">06:19, 29 June 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-287" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:Benwing2" title="User:Benwing2">Benwing2</a> Thanks - that's helpful. <a href="/wiki/User:Theknightwho" title="User:Theknightwho">Theknightwho</a> (<a class="mw-selflink selflink">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Theknightwho-20240629065000-Benwing2-20240629061900" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">06:50, 29 June 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-288" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>For reference, if you feel like tackling some of them, here's the full list (98 of them actually): <ul><li>Page 97 <a href="/wiki/Category:Japanese_terms_spelled_with_%E5%8C%A1_read_as_%E3%81%BE%E3%81%95" title="Category:Japanese terms spelled with 匡 read as まさ">Category:Japanese terms spelled with 匡 read as まさ</a></li> <li>Page 98 <a href="/wiki/Category:Japanese_terms_spelled_with_%E6%A7%98_read_as_%E3%81%95" title="Category:Japanese terms spelled with 様 read as さ">Category:Japanese terms spelled with 様 read as さ</a></li> <li>Page 196 <a href="/w/index.php?title=Category:Japanese_terms_spelled_with_%E4%BE%91_read_as_%E3%82%86&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category:Japanese terms spelled with 侑 read as ゆ (page does not exist)">Category:Japanese terms spelled with 侑 read as ゆ</a></li> <li>Page 197 <a href="/wiki/Category:Japanese_terms_spelled_with_%E6%9A%A2_read_as_%E3%81%AE%E3%81%B6" title="Category:Japanese terms spelled with 暢 read as のぶ">Category:Japanese terms spelled with 暢 read as のぶ</a></li> <li>Page 198 <a href="/wiki/Category:Japanese_terms_spelled_with_%E6%9D%8F_read_as_%E3%81%82" title="Category:Japanese terms spelled with 杏 read as あ">Category:Japanese terms spelled with 杏 read as あ</a></li> <li>Page 646 <a href="/w/index.php?title=Category:Japanese_terms_spelled_with_%E4%BA%A6_read_as_%E3%82%82&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category:Japanese terms spelled with 亦 read as も (page does not exist)">Category:Japanese terms spelled with 亦 read as も</a></li> <li>Page 647 <a href="/w/index.php?title=Category:Japanese_terms_spelled_with_%E4%BC%BC_read_as_%E3%81%AD%E3%81%97&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category:Japanese terms spelled with 似 read as ねし (page does not exist)">Category:Japanese terms spelled with 似 read as ねし</a></li> <li>Page 648 <a href="/wiki/Category:Japanese_terms_spelled_with_%E4%BE%91_read_as_%E3%82%86%E3%81%8D" title="Category:Japanese terms spelled with 侑 read as ゆき">Category:Japanese terms spelled with 侑 read as ゆき</a></li> <li>Page 649 <a href="/w/index.php?title=Category:Japanese_terms_spelled_with_%E5%85%81_read_as_%E3%81%98%E3%82%85&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category:Japanese terms spelled with 允 read as じゅ (page does not exist)">Category:Japanese terms spelled with 允 read as じゅ</a></li> <li>Page 650 <a href="/w/index.php?title=Category:Japanese_terms_spelled_with_%E5%85%81_read_as_%E3%81%BE%E3%81%95&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category:Japanese terms spelled with 允 read as まさ (page does not exist)">Category:Japanese terms spelled with 允 read as まさ</a></li> <li>Page 651 <a href="/w/index.php?title=Category:Japanese_terms_spelled_with_%E5%85%81_read_as_%E3%81%BF&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category:Japanese terms spelled with 允 read as み (page does not exist)">Category:Japanese terms spelled with 允 read as み</a></li> <li>Page 652 <a href="/w/index.php?title=Category:Japanese_terms_spelled_with_%E5%87%B5_read_as_%E3%81%86%E3%81%91%E3%81%B0%E3%81%93&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category:Japanese terms spelled with 凵 read as うけばこ (page does not exist)">Category:Japanese terms spelled with 凵 read as うけばこ</a></li> <li>Page 653 <a href="/w/index.php?title=Category:Japanese_terms_spelled_with_%E5%8A%AA_read_as_%E3%82%8A%E3%81%8D&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category:Japanese terms spelled with 努 read as りき (page does not exist)">Category:Japanese terms spelled with 努 read as りき</a></li> <li>Page 654 <a href="/w/index.php?title=Category:Japanese_terms_spelled_with_%E5%8B%89_read_as_%E3%82%8A%E3%81%8D&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category:Japanese terms spelled with 勉 read as りき (page does not exist)">Category:Japanese terms spelled with 勉 read as りき</a></li> <li>Page 655 <a href="/w/index.php?title=Category:Japanese_terms_spelled_with_%E5%8B%A7_read_as_%E3%81%8F%E3%82%8E%E3%82%93&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category:Japanese terms spelled with 勧 read as くゎん (page does not exist)">Category:Japanese terms spelled with 勧 read as くゎん</a></li> <li>Page 656 <a href="/w/index.php?title=Category:Japanese_terms_spelled_with_%E5%8F%AA_read_as_%E3%81%9F&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category:Japanese terms spelled with 只 read as た (page does not exist)">Category:Japanese terms spelled with 只 read as た</a></li> <li>Page 657 <a href="/w/index.php?title=Category:Japanese_terms_spelled_with_%E5%8F%B6_read_as_%E3%81%8B&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category:Japanese terms spelled with 叶 read as か (page does not exist)">Category:Japanese terms spelled with 叶 read as か</a></li> <li>Page 658 <a href="/w/index.php?title=Category:Japanese_terms_spelled_with_%E5%8F%B6_read_as_%E3%81%AE&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category:Japanese terms spelled with 叶 read as の (page does not exist)">Category:Japanese terms spelled with 叶 read as の</a></li> <li>Page 659 <a href="/w/index.php?title=Category:Japanese_terms_spelled_with_%E5%90%BE_read_as_%E3%82%8F%E3%81%8C&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category:Japanese terms spelled with 吾 read as わが (page does not exist)">Category:Japanese terms spelled with 吾 read as わが</a></li> <li>Page 660 <a href="/wiki/Category:Japanese_terms_spelled_with_%E5%98%89_read_as_%E3%81%8B%E3%81%9A" title="Category:Japanese terms spelled with 嘉 read as かず">Category:Japanese terms spelled with 嘉 read as かず</a></li> <li>Page 661 <a href="/w/index.php?title=Category:Japanese_terms_spelled_with_%E5%9D%90_read_as_%E3%81%8F%E3%82%89&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category:Japanese terms spelled with 坐 read as くら (page does not exist)">Category:Japanese terms spelled with 坐 read as くら</a></li> <li>Page 662 <a href="/w/index.php?title=Category:Japanese_terms_spelled_with_%E5%9F%B4_read_as_%E3%81%AF%E3%81%84&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category:Japanese terms spelled with 埴 read as はい (page does not exist)">Category:Japanese terms spelled with 埴 read as はい</a></li> <li>Page 663 <a href="/w/index.php?title=Category:Japanese_terms_spelled_with_%E5%9F%B4_read_as_%E3%81%AF%E3%81%AA&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category:Japanese terms spelled with 埴 read as はな (page does not exist)">Category:Japanese terms spelled with 埴 read as はな</a></li> <li>Page 664 <a href="/w/index.php?title=Category:Japanese_terms_spelled_with_%E5%A3%BD_read_as_%E3%81%B2%E3%82%8D&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category:Japanese terms spelled with 壽 read as ひろ (page does not exist)">Category:Japanese terms spelled with 壽 read as ひろ</a></li> <li>Page 666 <a href="/w/index.php?title=Category:Japanese_terms_spelled_with_%E5%A6%83_read_as_%E3%81%BF%E3%82%81&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category:Japanese terms spelled with 妃 read as みめ (page does not exist)">Category:Japanese terms spelled with 妃 read as みめ</a></li> <li>Page 667 <a href="/wiki/Category:Japanese_terms_spelled_with_%E5%AE%A5_read_as_%E3%81%B2%E3%82%8D" title="Category:Japanese terms spelled with 宥 read as ひろ">Category:Japanese terms spelled with 宥 read as ひろ</a></li> <li>Page 668 <a href="/w/index.php?title=Category:Japanese_terms_spelled_with_%E5%B0%96_read_as_%E3%81%95%E3%81%8D&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category:Japanese terms spelled with 尖 read as さき (page does not exist)">Category:Japanese terms spelled with 尖 read as さき</a></li> <li>Page 669 <a href="/w/index.php?title=Category:Japanese_terms_spelled_with_%E5%B3%BB_read_as_%E3%81%9F%E3%81%8B&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category:Japanese terms spelled with 峻 read as たか (page does not exist)">Category:Japanese terms spelled with 峻 read as たか</a></li> <li>Page 670 <a href="/w/index.php?title=Category:Japanese_terms_spelled_with_%E5%B6%BA_read_as_%E3%82%8C&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category:Japanese terms spelled with 嶺 read as れ (page does not exist)">Category:Japanese terms spelled with 嶺 read as れ</a></li> <li>Page 671 <a href="/w/index.php?title=Category:Japanese_terms_spelled_with_%E5%BA%B5_read_as_%E3%82%8F%E3%82%93&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category:Japanese terms spelled with 庵 read as わん (page does not exist)">Category:Japanese terms spelled with 庵 read as わん</a></li> <li>Page 672 <a href="/w/index.php?title=Category:Japanese_terms_spelled_with_%E5%BD%97_read_as_%E3%81%99&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category:Japanese terms spelled with 彗 read as す (page does not exist)">Category:Japanese terms spelled with 彗 read as す</a></li> <li>Page 673 <a href="/w/index.php?title=Category:Japanese_terms_spelled_with_%E6%80%9C_read_as_%E3%82%8C&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category:Japanese terms spelled with 怜 read as れ (page does not exist)">Category:Japanese terms spelled with 怜 read as れ</a></li> <li>Page 674 <a href="/w/index.php?title=Category:Japanese_terms_spelled_with_%E6%81%90_read_as_%E3%81%8B%E3%81%97%E3%81%93&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category:Japanese terms spelled with 恐 read as かしこ (page does not exist)">Category:Japanese terms spelled with 恐 read as かしこ</a></li> <li>Page 675 <a href="/w/index.php?title=Category:Japanese_terms_spelled_with_%E6%83%A3_read_as_%E3%81%9D&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category:Japanese terms spelled with 惣 read as そ (page does not exist)">Category:Japanese terms spelled with 惣 read as そ</a></li> <li>Page 676 <a href="/w/index.php?title=Category:Japanese_terms_spelled_with_%E6%87%89_read_as_%E3%81%AE%E3%81%86&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category:Japanese terms spelled with 應 read as のう (page does not exist)">Category:Japanese terms spelled with 應 read as のう</a></li> <li>Page 677 <a href="/w/index.php?title=Category:Japanese_terms_spelled_with_%E6%8D%B7_read_as_%E3%81%AF%E3%81%97%E3%81%93&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category:Japanese terms spelled with 捷 read as はしこ (page does not exist)">Category:Japanese terms spelled with 捷 read as はしこ</a></li> <li>Page 678 <a href="/w/index.php?title=Category:Japanese_terms_spelled_with_%E6%96%90_read_as_%E3%81%AE%E3%81%BF&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category:Japanese terms spelled with 斐 read as のみ (page does not exist)">Category:Japanese terms spelled with 斐 read as のみ</a></li> <li>Page 679 <a href="/w/index.php?title=Category:Japanese_terms_spelled_with_%E6%9A%A2_read_as_%E3%82%88%E3%81%86&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category:Japanese terms spelled with 暢 read as よう (page does not exist)">Category:Japanese terms spelled with 暢 read as よう</a></li> <li>Page 680 <a href="/w/index.php?title=Category:Japanese_terms_spelled_with_%E6%9B%B9_read_as_%E3%81%9D%E3%83%BC&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category:Japanese terms spelled with 曹 read as そー (page does not exist)">Category:Japanese terms spelled with 曹 read as そー</a></li> <li>Page 681 <a href="/w/index.php?title=Category:Japanese_terms_spelled_with_%E6%9C%80_read_as_%E3%81%8B%E3%81%AA%E3%82%81&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category:Japanese terms spelled with 最 read as かなめ (page does not exist)">Category:Japanese terms spelled with 最 read as かなめ</a></li> <li>Page 682 <a href="/w/index.php?title=Category:Japanese_terms_spelled_with_%E6%9C%8B_read_as_%E3%81%8A&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category:Japanese terms spelled with 朋 read as お (page does not exist)">Category:Japanese terms spelled with 朋 read as お</a></li> <li>Page 683 <a href="/w/index.php?title=Category:Japanese_terms_spelled_with_%E6%9D%8F_read_as_%E3%81%82%E3%81%9A&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category:Japanese terms spelled with 杏 read as あず (page does not exist)">Category:Japanese terms spelled with 杏 read as あず</a></li> <li>Page 685 <a href="/w/index.php?title=Category:Japanese_terms_spelled_with_%E6%A4%9B_read_as_%E3%81%AF%E3%81%AA&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category:Japanese terms spelled with 椛 read as はな (page does not exist)">Category:Japanese terms spelled with 椛 read as はな</a></li> <li>Page 686 <a href="/wiki/Category:Japanese_terms_spelled_with_%E6%A4%BD_read_as_%E3%81%88%E3%82%93" title="Category:Japanese terms spelled with 椽 read as えん">Category:Japanese terms spelled with 椽 read as えん</a></li> <li>Page 687 <a href="/w/index.php?title=Category:Japanese_terms_spelled_with_%E6%A5%93_read_as_%E3%81%8B&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category:Japanese terms spelled with 楓 read as か (page does not exist)">Category:Japanese terms spelled with 楓 read as か</a></li> <li>Page 688 <a href="/w/index.php?title=Category:Japanese_terms_spelled_with_%E6%A7%98_read_as_%E3%81%95%E3%81%81&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category:Japanese terms spelled with 様 read as さぁ (page does not exist)">Category:Japanese terms spelled with 様 read as さぁ</a></li> <li>Page 689 <a href="/w/index.php?title=Category:Japanese_terms_spelled_with_%E6%AC%A3_read_as_%E3%81%AE%E3%81%B6&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category:Japanese terms spelled with 欣 read as のぶ (page does not exist)">Category:Japanese terms spelled with 欣 read as のぶ</a></li> <li>Page 691 <a href="/w/index.php?title=Category:Japanese_terms_spelled_with_%E6%B1%9D_read_as_%E3%81%AA%E3%82%80&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category:Japanese terms spelled with 汝 read as なむ (page does not exist)">Category:Japanese terms spelled with 汝 read as なむ</a></li> <li>Page 692 <a href="/w/index.php?title=Category:Japanese_terms_spelled_with_%E6%B1%9D_read_as_%E3%81%AA%E3%82%93&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category:Japanese terms spelled with 汝 read as なん (page does not exist)">Category:Japanese terms spelled with 汝 read as なん</a></li> <li>Page 693 <a href="/w/index.php?title=Category:Japanese_terms_spelled_with_%E6%B3%A5_read_as_%E3%81%A7&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category:Japanese terms spelled with 泥 read as で (page does not exist)">Category:Japanese terms spelled with 泥 read as で</a></li> <li>Page 694 <a href="/w/index.php?title=Category:Japanese_terms_spelled_with_%E6%B4%B2_read_as_%E3%82%84%E3%81%99&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category:Japanese terms spelled with 洲 read as やす (page does not exist)">Category:Japanese terms spelled with 洲 read as やす</a></li> <li>Page 696 <a href="/w/index.php?title=Category:Japanese_terms_spelled_with_%E6%BC%B2_read_as_%E3%81%BF%E3%81%AA%E3%81%8E&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category:Japanese terms spelled with 漲 read as みなぎ (page does not exist)">Category:Japanese terms spelled with 漲 read as みなぎ</a></li> <li>Page 697 <a href="/w/index.php?title=Category:Japanese_terms_spelled_with_%E6%BF%83_read_as_%E3%81%93%E3%81%BE&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category:Japanese terms spelled with 濃 read as こま (page does not exist)">Category:Japanese terms spelled with 濃 read as こま</a></li> <li>Page 698 <a href="/w/index.php?title=Category:Japanese_terms_spelled_with_%E7%8E%96_read_as_%E3%81%8F%E3%81%AB&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category:Japanese terms spelled with 玖 read as くに (page does not exist)">Category:Japanese terms spelled with 玖 read as くに</a></li> <li>Page 699 <a href="/wiki/Category:Japanese_terms_spelled_with_%E7%91%9B_read_as_%E3%81%AF%E3%81%AA" title="Category:Japanese terms spelled with 瑛 read as はな">Category:Japanese terms spelled with 瑛 read as はな</a></li> <li>Page 700 <a href="/w/index.php?title=Category:Japanese_terms_spelled_with_%E7%91%9E_read_as_%E3%81%9A&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category:Japanese terms spelled with 瑞 read as ず (page does not exist)">Category:Japanese terms spelled with 瑞 read as ず</a></li> <li>Page 701 <a href="/w/index.php?title=Category:Japanese_terms_spelled_with_%E7%91%9E_read_as_%E3%81%B2%E3%82%8D&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category:Japanese terms spelled with 瑞 read as ひろ (page does not exist)">Category:Japanese terms spelled with 瑞 read as ひろ</a></li> <li>Page 702 <a href="/w/index.php?title=Category:Japanese_terms_spelled_with_%E7%91%9E_read_as_%E3%81%BF&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category:Japanese terms spelled with 瑞 read as み (page does not exist)">Category:Japanese terms spelled with 瑞 read as み</a></li> <li>Page 703 <a href="/w/index.php?title=Category:Japanese_terms_spelled_with_%E7%9A%93_read_as_%E3%81%A4%E3%81%90&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category:Japanese terms spelled with 皓 read as つぐ (page does not exist)">Category:Japanese terms spelled with 皓 read as つぐ</a></li> <li>Page 704 <a href="/w/index.php?title=Category:Japanese_terms_spelled_with_%E7%A3%85_read_as_%E3%81%BD%E3%82%93%E3%81%A9&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category:Japanese terms spelled with 磅 read as ぽんど (page does not exist)">Category:Japanese terms spelled with 磅 read as ぽんど</a></li> <li>Page 706 <a href="/wiki/Category:Japanese_terms_spelled_with_%E7%A7%80_read_as_%E3%81%B2" title="Category:Japanese terms spelled with 秀 read as ひ">Category:Japanese terms spelled with 秀 read as ひ</a></li> <li>Page 707 <a href="/w/index.php?title=Category:Japanese_terms_spelled_with_%E7%A8%80_read_as_%E3%81%AE&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category:Japanese terms spelled with 稀 read as の (page does not exist)">Category:Japanese terms spelled with 稀 read as の</a></li> <li>Page 708 <a href="/w/index.php?title=Category:Japanese_terms_spelled_with_%E7%A9%86_read_as_%E3%82%88%E3%81%97&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category:Japanese terms spelled with 穆 read as よし (page does not exist)">Category:Japanese terms spelled with 穆 read as よし</a></li> <li>Page 709 <a href="/w/index.php?title=Category:Japanese_terms_spelled_with_%E7%AB%88_read_as_%E3%81%B8&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category:Japanese terms spelled with 竈 read as へ (page does not exist)">Category:Japanese terms spelled with 竈 read as へ</a></li> <li>Page 710 <a href="/w/index.php?title=Category:Japanese_terms_spelled_with_%E7%AB%AD_read_as_%E3%81%A4&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category:Japanese terms spelled with 竭 read as つ (page does not exist)">Category:Japanese terms spelled with 竭 read as つ</a></li> <li>Page 711 <a href="/w/index.php?title=Category:Japanese_terms_spelled_with_%E7%AC%A0_read_as_%E3%81%95%E3%81%95&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category:Japanese terms spelled with 笠 read as ささ (page does not exist)">Category:Japanese terms spelled with 笠 read as ささ</a></li> <li>Page 712 <a href="/wiki/Category:Japanese_terms_spelled_with_%E7%B3%8E_read_as_%E3%81%9B%E3%82%93%E3%81%A1%E3%82%81%E3%83%BC%E3%81%A8%E3%82%8B" title="Category:Japanese terms spelled with 糎 read as せんちめーとる">Category:Japanese terms spelled with 糎 read as せんちめーとる</a></li> <li>Page 714 <a href="/w/index.php?title=Category:Japanese_terms_spelled_with_%E7%B4%97_read_as_%E3%81%95%E3%81%88&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category:Japanese terms spelled with 紗 read as さえ (page does not exist)">Category:Japanese terms spelled with 紗 read as さえ</a></li> <li>Page 715 <a href="/w/index.php?title=Category:Japanese_terms_spelled_with_%E7%B5%90_read_as_%E3%81%99%E3%81%8D&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category:Japanese terms spelled with 結 read as すき (page does not exist)">Category:Japanese terms spelled with 結 read as すき</a></li> <li>Page 716 <a href="/w/index.php?title=Category:Japanese_terms_spelled_with_%E7%B8%AE_read_as_%E3%81%A1%E3%82%8A&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category:Japanese terms spelled with 縮 read as ちり (page does not exist)">Category:Japanese terms spelled with 縮 read as ちり</a></li> <li>Page 717 <a href="/w/index.php?title=Category:Japanese_terms_spelled_with_%E7%BF%85_read_as_%E3%81%AF&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category:Japanese terms spelled with 翅 read as は (page does not exist)">Category:Japanese terms spelled with 翅 read as は</a></li> <li>Page 718 <a href="/wiki/Category:Japanese_terms_spelled_with_%E8%80%8C_read_as_%E3%81%AE" title="Category:Japanese terms spelled with 而 read as の">Category:Japanese terms spelled with 而 read as の</a></li> <li>Page 719 <a href="/w/index.php?title=Category:Japanese_terms_spelled_with_%E8%83%A1_read_as_%E3%81%82&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category:Japanese terms spelled with 胡 read as あ (page does not exist)">Category:Japanese terms spelled with 胡 read as あ</a></li> <li>Page 720 <a href="/w/index.php?title=Category:Japanese_terms_spelled_with_%E8%88%9B_read_as_%E3%81%BE%E3%81%99&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category:Japanese terms spelled with 舛 read as ます (page does not exist)">Category:Japanese terms spelled with 舛 read as ます</a></li> <li>Page 721 <a href="/w/index.php?title=Category:Japanese_terms_spelled_with_%E8%8A%A5_read_as_%E3%81%82%E3%81%8F&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category:Japanese terms spelled with 芥 read as あく (page does not exist)">Category:Japanese terms spelled with 芥 read as あく</a></li> <li>Page 722 <a href="/w/index.php?title=Category:Japanese_terms_spelled_with_%E8%8A%A6_read_as_%E3%82%88%E3%81%97&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category:Japanese terms spelled with 芦 read as よし (page does not exist)">Category:Japanese terms spelled with 芦 read as よし</a></li> <li>Page 723 <a href="/w/index.php?title=Category:Japanese_terms_spelled_with_%E8%8B%BA_read_as_%E3%81%84%E3%81%A3%E3%81%94&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category:Japanese terms spelled with 苺 read as いっご (page does not exist)">Category:Japanese terms spelled with 苺 read as いっご</a></li> <li>Page 724 <a href="/w/index.php?title=Category:Japanese_terms_spelled_with_%E8%8C%84_read_as_%E3%81%AA&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category:Japanese terms spelled with 茄 read as な (page does not exist)">Category:Japanese terms spelled with 茄 read as な</a></li> <li>Page 725 <a href="/w/index.php?title=Category:Japanese_terms_spelled_with_%E8%8F%AB_read_as_%E3%81%99%E3%81%BF&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category:Japanese terms spelled with 菫 read as すみ (page does not exist)">Category:Japanese terms spelled with 菫 read as すみ</a></li> <li>Page 726 <a href="/w/index.php?title=Category:Japanese_terms_spelled_with_%E8%91%B5_read_as_%E3%81%82%E3%81%84&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category:Japanese terms spelled with 葵 read as あい (page does not exist)">Category:Japanese terms spelled with 葵 read as あい</a></li> <li>Page 727 <a href="/wiki/Category:Japanese_terms_spelled_with_%E8%93%8D_read_as_%E3%82%81%E3%81%A9" title="Category:Japanese terms spelled with 蓍 read as めど">Category:Japanese terms spelled with 蓍 read as めど</a></li> <li>Page 728 <a href="/w/index.php?title=Category:Japanese_terms_spelled_with_%E8%95%88_read_as_%E3%81%9F%E3%81%91&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category:Japanese terms spelled with 蕈 read as たけ (page does not exist)">Category:Japanese terms spelled with 蕈 read as たけ</a></li> <li>Page 729 <a href="/wiki/Category:Japanese_terms_spelled_with_%E8%9A%BA_read_as_%E3%81%9B%E3%82%93" title="Category:Japanese terms spelled with 蚺 read as せん">Category:Japanese terms spelled with 蚺 read as せん</a></li> <li>Page 730 <a href="/wiki/Category:Japanese_terms_spelled_with_%E8%9A%BA_read_as_%E3%81%9C%E3%82%93" title="Category:Japanese terms spelled with 蚺 read as ぜん">Category:Japanese terms spelled with 蚺 read as ぜん</a></li> <li>Page 731 <a href="/w/index.php?title=Category:Japanese_terms_spelled_with_%E8%9D%A6_read_as_%E3%81%97%E3%82%83&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category:Japanese terms spelled with 蝦 read as しゃ (page does not exist)">Category:Japanese terms spelled with 蝦 read as しゃ</a></li> <li>Page 732 <a href="/wiki/Category:Japanese_terms_spelled_with_%E8%A1%9B_read_as_%E3%81%BE%E3%82%82%E3%82%8B" title="Category:Japanese terms spelled with 衛 read as まもる">Category:Japanese terms spelled with 衛 read as まもる</a></li> <li>Page 733 <a href="/w/index.php?title=Category:Japanese_terms_spelled_with_%E8%A4%8C_read_as_%E3%81%BF%E3%81%A4&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category:Japanese terms spelled with 褌 read as みつ (page does not exist)">Category:Japanese terms spelled with 褌 read as みつ</a></li> <li>Page 735 <a href="/w/index.php?title=Category:Japanese_terms_spelled_with_%E8%B4%96_read_as_%E3%81%82%E3%81%8C&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category:Japanese terms spelled with 贖 read as あが (page does not exist)">Category:Japanese terms spelled with 贖 read as あが</a></li> <li>Page 736 <a href="/w/index.php?title=Category:Japanese_terms_spelled_with_%E9%82%89_read_as_%E3%81%AA%E3%81%B9&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category:Japanese terms spelled with 邉 read as なべ (page does not exist)">Category:Japanese terms spelled with 邉 read as なべ</a></li> <li>Page 737 <a href="/w/index.php?title=Category:Japanese_terms_spelled_with_%E9%83%81_read_as_%E3%82%86&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category:Japanese terms spelled with 郁 read as ゆ (page does not exist)">Category:Japanese terms spelled with 郁 read as ゆ</a></li> <li>Page 738 <a href="/w/index.php?title=Category:Japanese_terms_spelled_with_%E9%83%A1_read_as_%E3%81%93%E3%81%86%E3%82%8A&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category:Japanese terms spelled with 郡 read as こうり (page does not exist)">Category:Japanese terms spelled with 郡 read as こうり</a></li> <li>Page 739 <a href="/w/index.php?title=Category:Japanese_terms_spelled_with_%E9%87%A7_read_as_%E3%81%8F%E3%81%97&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category:Japanese terms spelled with 釧 read as くし (page does not exist)">Category:Japanese terms spelled with 釧 read as くし</a></li> <li>Page 740 <a href="/w/index.php?title=Category:Japanese_terms_spelled_with_%E9%87%BA_read_as_%E3%81%BF%E3%82%8B&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category:Japanese terms spelled with 釺 read as みる (page does not exist)">Category:Japanese terms spelled with 釺 read as みる</a></li> <li>Page 741 <a href="/w/index.php?title=Category:Japanese_terms_spelled_with_%E9%9A%BC_read_as_%E3%81%A8%E3%81%97&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category:Japanese terms spelled with 隼 read as とし (page does not exist)">Category:Japanese terms spelled with 隼 read as とし</a></li> <li>Page 742 <a href="/w/index.php?title=Category:Japanese_terms_spelled_with_%E9%9D%92_read_as_%E3%81%8A%E3%81%86&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category:Japanese terms spelled with 青 read as おう (page does not exist)">Category:Japanese terms spelled with 青 read as おう</a></li> <li>Page 743 <a href="/wiki/Category:Japanese_terms_spelled_with_%E9%A0%81_read_as_%E3%81%BA%E3%83%BC%E3%81%98" title="Category:Japanese terms spelled with 頁 read as ぺーじ">Category:Japanese terms spelled with 頁 read as ぺーじ</a></li> <li>Page 744 <a href="/w/index.php?title=Category:Japanese_terms_spelled_with_%E9%A2%AF_read_as_%E3%81%AF%E3%82%84&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category:Japanese terms spelled with 颯 read as はや (page does not exist)">Category:Japanese terms spelled with 颯 read as はや</a></li> <li>Page 745 <a href="/wiki/Category:Japanese_terms_spelled_with_%E9%AB%AE_read_as_%E3%81%8C" title="Category:Japanese terms spelled with 髮 read as が">Category:Japanese terms spelled with 髮 read as が</a></li></ul></dd> <dd><a href="/wiki/User:Benwing2" title="User:Benwing2">Benwing2</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Benwing2" title="User talk:Benwing2">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Benwing2-20240629072800-Theknightwho-20240629065000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">07:28, 29 June 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-289" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Edit_request" data-mw-thread-id="h-Edit_request-20240630195400">Edit request</h2>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Theknightwho&action=edit&section=58" title="Edit section: Edit request">edit</a>]<div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata">Latest comment: <a href="#c-Inqilābī-20240731214600-Edit_request">3 months ago</a>4 comments2 people in discussion</div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> Hi. Could you please add ‘Bangladeshi politics’ to the <a href="/wiki/Module:labels/data/topical" title="Module:labels/data/topical">module</a> using: labels["Bangladeshi politics"] = { display "[[w:Politics of Bangladesh|Bangladeshi politics]]", topical_categories = true, } Thank you in advance! <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Inqil%C4%81b%C4%AB&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Inqilābī (page does not exist)">Inqilābī</a> <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Inqilābī-20240630195400-Edit_request" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:54, 30 June 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-290" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>@<a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Inqil%C4%81b%C4%AB&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Inqilābī (page does not exist)">Inqilābī</a> Apologies - I missed this. Now done. <a href="/wiki/User:Theknightwho" title="User:Theknightwho">Theknightwho</a> (<a class="mw-selflink selflink">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Theknightwho-20240707205100-Inqilābī-20240630195400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:51, 7 July 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-291" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>Thanks! <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Inqil%C4%81b%C4%AB&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Inqilābī (page does not exist)">Inqilābī</a> <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Inqilābī-20240707205300-Theknightwho-20240707205100" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:53, 7 July 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-292" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd></dl></dd></dl> Could you please do the same for Burmese politics using: labels["Burmese politics"] = { display "[[w:Politics of Myanmar|Burmese politics]]", topical_categories = true, } <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Inqil%C4%81b%C4%AB&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Inqilābī (page does not exist)">Inqilābī</a> <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Inqilābī-20240731214600-Edit_request" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:46, 31 July 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-293" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Japanese_errors_and_categories_again" data-mw-thread-id="h-Japanese_errors_and_categories_again-20240701082800">Japanese errors and categories again</h2>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Theknightwho&action=edit&section=59" title="Edit section: Japanese errors and categories again">edit</a>]<div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata">Latest comment: <a href="#c-Theknightwho-20240707125100-Benwing2-20240707054200">4 months ago</a>12 comments2 people in discussion</div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> Hi. I hope categories like <a href="/wiki/Category:Japanese_kanji_with_kun_reading_%E3%82%84%E3%81%99%E3%83%BB%E3%82%81%E3%82%8B" title="Category:Japanese kanji with kun reading やす・める">Category:Japanese kanji with kun reading やす・める</a> are correct because there are thousands of them being created by my bot currently due to their appearance in <a href="/wiki/Special:WantedCategories" title="Special:WantedCategories">Special:WantedCategories</a>. (What are they? Why is there a dot in the middle?) Also, what is your plan for clearing the remaining 50 or so Japanese errors? You seem to be doing a few a day; at this rate it might take 10 days, which is too long IMO. <a href="/wiki/User:Benwing2" title="User:Benwing2">Benwing2</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Benwing2" title="User talk:Benwing2">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Benwing2-20240701082800-Japanese_errors_and_categories_again" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">08:28, 1 July 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-294" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:Benwing2" title="User:Benwing2">Benwing2</a> Yes, they’re correct - they’re the ones that had hyphens in, but I moved them to using the dot because it’s what Japanese dictionaries use, and it’s way more legible. It shows the distinction between <a href="/wiki/furigana" title="furigana">furigana</a> (the actual reading) and <a href="/wiki/okurigana" title="okurigana">okurigana</a> (any following kana which are required for that reading to apply). Those subcategories are then grouped by furigana only, which is new (e.g. see <a href="/wiki/Category:Japanese_kanji_with_kun_reading_%E3%81%82" title="Category:Japanese kanji with kun reading あ">Category:Japanese kanji with kun reading あ</a> for an extreme example), but that makes up a tiny proportion of the “new” categories since there aren’t that many readings which always need okurigana, so most of those group categories already had something in them.</dd> <dd><div class="paragraphbreak" style="margin-top:0.5em"></div></dd> <dd>They’ve been slower to clear than I thought, as they’re often edge-cases, but I’ll spend more time doing it. <a href="/wiki/User:Theknightwho" title="User:Theknightwho">Theknightwho</a> (<a class="mw-selflink selflink">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Theknightwho-20240701113000-Benwing2-20240701082800" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">11:30, 1 July 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-295" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>Great, thanks, and apologies for all the questions; some of the workings of Japanese are a bit mysterious. <a href="/wiki/User:Benwing2" title="User:Benwing2">Benwing2</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Benwing2" title="User talk:Benwing2">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Benwing2-20240701212800-Theknightwho-20240701113000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:28, 1 July 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-296" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>In the process of trying to run my script on Okinawan categories I found and fixed some bugs where it was giving up too soon in certain situations. But in the process I found that some pages have "disallowed" reading types listed such as jubakoyomi. "Disallowed" means it's not in the <code style="white-space:pre-wrap;" class="mw-highlight mw-highlight-lang-text mw-content-ltr" dir="ltr">allowed_reading_types</code> list that I compiled awhile ago based on something or other (I don't remember what). In particular there are four reading types that my script knows about but doesn't have listed in <code style="white-space:pre-wrap;" class="mw-highlight mw-highlight-lang-text mw-content-ltr" dir="ltr">allowed_reading_types</code>: jukujikun, jubakoyomi, yutoyomi and irregular. Should any of these be allowed (and what are they)? <a href="/wiki/User:Benwing2" title="User:Benwing2">Benwing2</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Benwing2" title="User talk:Benwing2">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Benwing2-20240703024700-Benwing2-20240701212800" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:47, 3 July 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-297" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:Benwing2" title="User:Benwing2">Benwing2</a> They're disallowed in the sense that we shouldn't have "X terms spelled with Y read as Z" categories for those reading types, since jukujikun, jūbakoyomi and yutōyomi have to be compound readings by definition, and we don't categorise irregular readings since they should just be one-offs limited to one particular compound term (which can happen for tons of reasons: reading contractions/syncopations, kanji substitution, kanji have been swapped around etc etc). Personally, I think we should get rid of jūbakoyomi and yutōyomi in kanjitab, since they apply to two-kanji compounds that are on/kun and kun/on respectively, so they're trivial to determine automatically, and using them as inputs discourages people from giving the specific type of on'yomi + makes processing slightly trickier. <a href="/wiki/User:Theknightwho" title="User:Theknightwho">Theknightwho</a> (<a class="mw-selflink selflink">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Theknightwho-20240703025600-Benwing2-20240703024700" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:56, 3 July 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-298" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>I see, thanks. I ran into this because some of the 'X terms spelled with Y read as Z' categories do seem to be based on jūbakoyomi readings. E.g. <a href="/wiki/Category:Japanese_terms_spelled_with_%E9%A0%81_read_as_%E3%81%BA%E3%83%BC%E3%81%98" title="Category:Japanese terms spelled with 頁 read as ぺーじ">Category:Japanese terms spelled with 頁 read as ぺーじ</a> under the term <a href="/wiki/%E6%AC%A0%E9%A0%81#Japanese" title="欠頁">欠頁</a> has <code style="white-space:pre-wrap">{{<a href="/wiki/Template:ja-kanjitab#top" title="Template:ja-kanjitab">ja-kanjitab</a>|けつ|ぺーじ|yomi=j}}</code>. The following should probably be looked at:</dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <pre>Page 3 Category:Japanese terms spelled with 頁 read as ぺーじ: 欠頁: WARNING: Disallowed reading type jubakoyomi: {{ja-kanjitab|けつ|ぺーじ|yomi=j}} Page 3 Category:Japanese terms spelled with 頁 read as ぺーじ: 缺頁: WARNING: Disallowed reading type jubakoyomi: {{ja-kanjitab|けつ|ぺーじ|yomi=j}} Page 15 Category:Japanese terms spelled with 剗 read as せ: 剗海: WARNING: Unrecognized reading type : {{ja-kanjitab|せ|o1=の|うみ|yomi=,k}} Page 22 Category:Japanese terms spelled with 吾 read as わが: 吾輩: WARNING: Disallowed reading type yutoyomi: {{ja-kanjitab|わが|はい|yomi=y|alt=我輩,我が輩,吾が輩}} Page 33 Category:Japanese terms spelled with 嶺 read as れ: 嶺臣: WARNING: Disallowed reading type jubakoyomi: {{ja-kanjitab|れ|おみ|k2=お|yomi=j}} Page 36 Category:Japanese terms spelled with 怜 read as れ: 怜生: WARNING: Disallowed reading type jubakoyomi: {{ja-kanjitab|れ|お|yomi=ok}} Page 55 Category:Japanese terms spelled with 漕 read as こぎ: 阿漕: WARNING: Disallowed reading type jubakoyomi: {{ja-kanjitab|あ|こぎ|yomi=j}} Page 70 Category:Japanese terms spelled with 竈 read as へ: 黄泉竈食い: WARNING: Saw 4 chars in contents title but 3 readings よも2,へ,く, skipping: {{ja-kanjitab|よも2|o1=つ|へ|く|k3=ぐ|r=y|yomi=juku2,k,k}} Page 127 Category:Japanese terms spelled with 銜 read as くわ: 銜え煙草: WARNING: Saw 3 chars in contents title but 2 readings くわ,たばこ2, skipping: {{ja-kanjitab|くわ|たばこ2|yomi=k,juku2}} </pre> These are just the ones issued for the first 132 categories my script processed; I hit ^C after that. <a href="/wiki/User:Benwing2" title="User:Benwing2">Benwing2</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Benwing2" title="User talk:Benwing2">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Benwing2-20240703030500-Japanese_errors_and_categories_again" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">03:05, 3 July 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-299" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>Hmm, possibly the last two issues are spurious? What does e.g. the 2 in <code style="white-space:pre-wrap;" class="mw-highlight mw-highlight-lang-text mw-content-ltr" dir="ltr">よも2</code> in the first argument to <code style="white-space:pre-wrap">{{<a href="/wiki/Template:ja-kanjitab#top" title="Template:ja-kanjitab">ja-kanjitab</a>}}</code> mean? <a href="/wiki/User:Benwing2" title="User:Benwing2">Benwing2</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Benwing2" title="User talk:Benwing2">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Benwing2-20240703030700-Benwing2-20240703030500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">03:07, 3 July 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:Benwing2" title="User:Benwing2">Benwing2</a> <code style="white-space:pre-wrap;" class="mw-highlight mw-highlight-lang-text mw-content-ltr" dir="ltr">よも2</code> means it applies to two kanji, so those are spurious, yeah. <a href="/wiki/User:Theknightwho" title="User:Theknightwho">Theknightwho</a> (<a class="mw-selflink selflink">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Theknightwho-20240703030900-Benwing2-20240703030700" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">03:09, 3 July 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-301" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd></dl></dd> <dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:Benwing2" title="User:Benwing2">Benwing2</a> Thanks - I can't remember off the top of my head if kanjitab takes "jubakoyomi" and then categorises the first as "on" and the second as "kun", but it sounds like that's what it's doing.</dd> <dd><div class="paragraphbreak" style="margin-top:0.5em"></div></dd> <dd>To be honest, this is just another reason why we need to get rid of those two as inputs, as they're completely unnecessary. <a href="/wiki/User:Theknightwho" title="User:Theknightwho">Theknightwho</a> (<a class="mw-selflink selflink">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Theknightwho-20240703030800-Benwing2-20240703030500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">03:08, 3 July 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-302" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>No objections from me :) ... <a href="/wiki/User:Benwing2" title="User:Benwing2">Benwing2</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Benwing2" title="User talk:Benwing2">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Benwing2-20240703031200-Theknightwho-20240703030800" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">03:12, 3 July 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-303" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>All of the Japanese errors are gone, but I don't see you having edited all the pages in question. Did I miss this or did you change the code to not throw these errors? <a href="/wiki/User:Benwing2" title="User:Benwing2">Benwing2</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Benwing2" title="User talk:Benwing2">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Benwing2-20240707054200-Benwing2-20240703031200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">05:42, 7 July 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-304" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:Benwing2" title="User:Benwing2">Benwing2</a> I changed it to tracking temporarily since some of them were awkward and it was really slow going. I’ll restore it once they’re all fixed. <a href="/wiki/User:Theknightwho" title="User:Theknightwho">Theknightwho</a> (<a class="mw-selflink selflink">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Theknightwho-20240707125100-Benwing2-20240707054200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">12:51, 7 July 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-305" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Do_not_ever_restore_personal_attacks,_for_any_reason" data-mw-thread-id="h-Do_not_ever_restore_personal_attacks,_for_any_reason-20240707014200">Do not ever restore personal attacks, for any reason</h2>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Theknightwho&action=edit&section=60" title="Edit section: Do not ever restore personal attacks, for any reason">edit</a>]<div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata">Latest comment: <a href="#c-Benwing2-20240707054000-Theknightwho-20240707014400">4 months ago</a>3 comments3 people in discussion</div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> I carefully redacted phrases on <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Koavf" title="User talk:Koavf">User talk:Koavf</a> which I interpret as personal attacks against my person. <a class="external text" href="https://en.wiktionary.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Koavf&diff=prev&oldid=80647455">You chose to restore those personal attacks</a> on someone else's user talk page. Never do that again, or I will report you to administrators for personal attacks on your own behalf. These are not your statements to make, nor restore, nor support. Please stay out of it. <a href="/wiki/User:Elizium23" title="User:Elizium23">Elizium23</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Elizium23" title="User talk:Elizium23">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Elizium23-20240707014200-Do_not_ever_restore_personal_attacks,_for_any_reason" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:42, 7 July 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-306" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:Elizium23" title="User:Elizium23">Elizium23</a> Firstly, "random user" or "rando" is not a personal attack by any metric. Secondly, even if it was, you do not have the right to edit another user's comments to remove it anyway. I will block you if you attempt to do this again. <a href="/wiki/User:Theknightwho" title="User:Theknightwho">Theknightwho</a> (<a class="mw-selflink selflink">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Theknightwho-20240707014400-Elizium23-20240707014200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:44, 7 July 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-307" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:Elizium23" title="User:Elizium23">Elizium23</a> Theknightwho is correct here. You're not supposed to edit other people's comments, as a general rule. There may be exceptions, e.g. if someone posted doxxing material or used a slur like the n-word; in such a case the whole comment should be revdel'ed by an admin. More innocuously, sometimes I edit other people's comments to fix Lua errors caused by changes in templates that the comments make use of. But other people's comments may not be edited to change their meaning, nor to fix typos, nor to fix errors of fact, nor to remove personal attacks that fall short of the standard for revdeling, etc. <a href="/wiki/User:Benwing2" title="User:Benwing2">Benwing2</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Benwing2" title="User talk:Benwing2">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Benwing2-20240707054000-Theknightwho-20240707014400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">05:40, 7 July 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-308" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Emptying_category" data-mw-thread-id="h-Emptying_category-20240713074100">Emptying category</h2>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Theknightwho&action=edit&section=61" title="Edit section: Emptying category">edit</a>]<div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata">Latest comment: <a href="#c-Theknightwho-20240713153800-Koavf-20240713085200">4 months ago</a>4 comments2 people in discussion</div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> Is there a reason you are emptying <a href="/wiki/Category:Okinawan_Han_characters" title="Category:Okinawan Han characters">Category:Okinawan Han characters</a>? Is there a consensus to delete this? —<a href="/wiki/User:Koavf" title="User:Koavf">Justin (koavf)</a>❤<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Koavf" title="User talk:Koavf">T</a>☮<a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Koavf" title="Special:Contributions/Koavf">C</a>☺<a href="/wiki/Special:EmailUser/Koavf" title="Special:EmailUser/Koavf">M</a>☯ <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Koavf-20240713074100-Emptying_category" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">07:41, 13 July 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-309" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:Koavf" title="User:Koavf">Koavf</a> I’m not. Where are you getting that from? <a href="/wiki/User:Theknightwho" title="User:Theknightwho">Theknightwho</a> (<a class="mw-selflink selflink">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Theknightwho-20240713074700-Koavf-20240713074100" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">07:47, 13 July 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-310" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd><a class="external free" href="https://en.wiktionary.org/w/index.php?title=Category:Okinawan_kanji_with_kun_readings_missing_okurigana_designation&curid=8237915&diff=80702389&oldid=63780908">https://en.wiktionary.org/w/index.php?title=Category:Okinawan_kanji_with_kun_readings_missing_okurigana_designation&curid=8237915&diff=80702389&oldid=63780908</a> —<a href="/wiki/User:Koavf" title="User:Koavf">Justin (koavf)</a>❤<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Koavf" title="User talk:Koavf">T</a>☮<a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Koavf" title="Special:Contributions/Koavf">C</a>☺<a href="/wiki/Special:EmailUser/Koavf" title="Special:EmailUser/Koavf">M</a>☯ <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Koavf-20240713085200-Theknightwho-20240713074700" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">08:52, 13 July 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-311" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:Koavf" title="User:Koavf">Koavf</a> That’s a maintenance category, and I changed it to <code style="white-space:pre-wrap">{{<a href="/wiki/Template:auto_cat#top" title="Template:auto cat">auto cat</a>}}</code>. It belongs in entry maintenance. <a href="/wiki/User:Theknightwho" title="User:Theknightwho">Theknightwho</a> (<a class="mw-selflink selflink">talk</a>), <a href="/wiki/User:Theknightwho" title="User:Theknightwho">Theknightwho</a> (<a class="mw-selflink selflink">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Theknightwho-20240713153800-Koavf-20240713085200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:38, 13 July 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-312" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="CJKV_transclusion_fun" data-mw-thread-id="h-CJKV_transclusion_fun-20240715030900">CJKV transclusion fun</h2>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Theknightwho&action=edit&section=62" title="Edit section: CJKV transclusion fun">edit</a>]<div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata">Latest comment: <a href="#c-Chuck_Entz-20240715030900-CJKV_transclusion_fun">4 months ago</a>1 comment1 person in discussion</div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> I've been going through <a href="/wiki/Wiktionary:Todo/Lists/Entries_using_nonexistent_templates" title="Wiktionary:Todo/Lists/Entries using nonexistent templates">Wiktionary:Todo/Lists/Entries using nonexistent templates</a>, and I found 45 entries listed as using "zh-cp". Early on I found a fat-finger typo for <code style="white-space:pre-wrap">{{<a href="/wiki/Template:zh-co#top" title="Template:zh-co">zh-co</a>}}</code> in <a href="/wiki/%E9%A0%AD" title="頭">頭</a> and fixed it. After that I kept finding false positives: it was in the transclusion list but searching for "zh-cp" in the source turned up nothing. Finally, I did an insource: search for it and found nothing anywhere in mainspace. So I did null edits on all 45 pages and <a href="/wiki/Special:WhatLinksHere/%E9%A0%AD" title="Special:WhatLinksHere/頭">Special:WhatLinksHere/頭</a> went from 45 pages to none. Apparently simply linking to a Han-character entry adds all of that page's templates to the linking page's transclusion list. I believe someone mentioned that on the Grease pit, as well as a similar effect with <code style="white-space:pre-wrap">{{<a href="/wiki/Template:etymon#top" title="Template:etymon">etymon</a>}}</code>, but this is a good illustration of just how much that can affect template-related problem solving. <a href="/wiki/User:Chuck_Entz" title="User:Chuck Entz">Chuck Entz</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Chuck_Entz" title="User talk:Chuck Entz">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Chuck_Entz-20240715030900-CJKV_transclusion_fun" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">03:09, 15 July 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-313" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Vandal" data-mw-thread-id="h-Vandal-20240715174600">Vandal</h2>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Theknightwho&action=edit&section=63" title="Edit section: Vandal">edit</a>]<div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata">Latest comment: <a href="#c-Wüstenspringmaus-20240715174600-Vandal">4 months ago</a>1 comment1 person in discussion</div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> Hello, I would like to ask you (as I'm not able to edit WT:VIP) if you can block <a href="/wiki/User:Xdwev_vfre2wwd" title="User:Xdwev vfre2wwd">Xdwev vfre2wwd</a> (<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Xdwev_vfre2wwd&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User talk:Xdwev vfre2wwd (page does not exist)">talk</a> • <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Xdwev_vfre2wwd" title="Special:Contributions/Xdwev vfre2wwd">contribs</a> • <a href="https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:CentralAuth/Xdwev_vfre2wwd" class="extiw" title="m:Special:CentralAuth/Xdwev vfre2wwd">global account info</a> • <a href="/wiki/Special:DeletedContributions/Xdwev_vfre2wwd" title="Special:DeletedContributions/Xdwev vfre2wwd">deleted contribs</a> • <a href="/wiki/Special:Nuke/Xdwev_vfre2wwd" title="Special:Nuke/Xdwev vfre2wwd">nuke</a> • <a class="external text" href="https://en.wiktionary.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3AAbuseLog&wpSearchUser=Xdwev_vfre2wwd">abuse filter log</a> • <a href="/wiki/Special:Log/move/Xdwev_vfre2wwd" title="Special:Log/move/Xdwev vfre2wwd">page moves</a> • <a href="/wiki/Special:Block/Xdwev_vfre2wwd" title="Special:Block/Xdwev vfre2wwd">block</a> • <a class="external text" href="https://en.wiktionary.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3ALog&type=block&page=User%3AXdwev_vfre2wwd">block log</a> • <a href="/wiki/Special:BlockList/Xdwev_vfre2wwd" title="Special:BlockList/Xdwev vfre2wwd">active blocks</a>). This user is a cross-wiki vandal who has also vandalised here. Regards <a href="/wiki/User:W%C3%BCstenspringmaus" title="User:Wüstenspringmaus">Wüstenspringmaus</a> (<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:W%C3%BCstenspringmaus&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User talk:Wüstenspringmaus (page does not exist)">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Wüstenspringmaus-20240715174600-Vandal" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:46, 15 July 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-314" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Hindustani" data-mw-thread-id="h-Hindustani-20240718041700">Hindustani</h2>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Theknightwho&action=edit&section=64" title="Edit section: Hindustani">edit</a>]<div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata">Latest comment: <a href="#c-Theknightwho-20240718044400-Foreverknowledge-20240718044000">4 months ago</a>4 comments2 people in discussion</div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> I was not engaging in edit warring. I made one reversion only. The user provided no source to back up his claim of Urdu = Hindustani. He/she had changed definitions that had been there for a long time. See: <a class="external free" href="https://en.wiktionary.org/w/index.php?title=Hindustani&oldid=78733566">https://en.wiktionary.org/w/index.php?title=Hindustani&oldid=78733566</a>. It has been a long established Wiki consensus to treat Hindi and Urdu as lects of Hindustani rather than equate to equate one as equivalent to Hindustani. See <a href="/wiki/Talk:%E0%A4%B9%E0%A4%BF%E0%A4%82%E0%A4%A6%E0%A5%80" title="Talk:हिंदी">Talk: हिंदी</a> for a discussion on this. <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Foreverknowledge&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Foreverknowledge (page does not exist)">Foreverknowledge</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Foreverknowledge" title="User talk:Foreverknowledge">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Foreverknowledge-20240718041700-Hindustani" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">04:17, 18 July 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-315" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>@<a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Foreverknowledge&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Foreverknowledge (page does not exist)">Foreverknowledge</a> The question of how we as a dictionary use the term <a href="/wiki/Hindustani#English" title="Hindustani">Hindustani</a> is not the same as the question of whether a sense exists (or has existed historically) that deserves mention on the entry. For instance, the fact that we use the term <a href="/wiki/Bengali#English" title="Bengali">Bengali</a> instead of <a href="/wiki/Bangla#English" title="Bangla">Bangla</a> does not mean that we obliterate sense 1 (nonstandard) Synonym of Bengali (language), and neither do we delete the term <a href="/wiki/Eirish#English" title="Eirish">Eirish</a> because we choose <a href="/wiki/Irish#English" title="Irish">Irish</a> instead. You are being prescriptive, and that is not how things work. If a label like "historical" or "nonstandard" is appropriate, then that's fine, but you don't just delete it without going through the proper process. <a href="/wiki/User:Theknightwho" title="User:Theknightwho">Theknightwho</a> (<a class="mw-selflink selflink">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Theknightwho-20240718043400-Foreverknowledge-20240718041700" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">04:34, 18 July 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-316" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>The quotation should belong to the first definition, as it initially was, before being moved to the Urdu definition by that user without any support. So please make that change. <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Foreverknowledge&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Foreverknowledge (page does not exist)">Foreverknowledge</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Foreverknowledge" title="User talk:Foreverknowledge">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Foreverknowledge-20240718044000-Theknightwho-20240718043400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">04:40, 18 July 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-317" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>@<a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Foreverknowledge&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Foreverknowledge (page does not exist)">Foreverknowledge</a> Sure. <a href="/wiki/User:Theknightwho" title="User:Theknightwho">Theknightwho</a> (<a class="mw-selflink selflink">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Theknightwho-20240718044400-Foreverknowledge-20240718044000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">04:44, 18 July 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-318" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id=""Terms_spelled_with"_categories" data-mw-thread-id="h-"Terms_spelled_with"_categories-20240718145000">"Terms spelled with" categories</h2>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Theknightwho&action=edit&section=65" title="Edit section: "Terms spelled with" categories">edit</a>]<div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata">Latest comment: <a href="#c-Theknightwho-20240718164500-Chuck_Entz-20240718145000">4 months ago</a>2 comments2 people in discussion</div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> There are still 3 of these in <a href="/wiki/Category:E" class="mw-redirect" title="Category:E">CAT:E</a> that seem to be the result of changes you made a couple of days ago. <a href="/wiki/User:Chuck_Entz" title="User:Chuck Entz">Chuck Entz</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Chuck_Entz" title="User talk:Chuck Entz">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Chuck_Entz-20240718145000-"Terms_spelled_with"_categories" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">14:50, 18 July 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-319" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:Chuck_Entz" title="User:Chuck Entz">Chuck Entz</a> Thanks - fixed. <a href="/wiki/User:Theknightwho" title="User:Theknightwho">Theknightwho</a> (<a class="mw-selflink selflink">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Theknightwho-20240718164500-Chuck_Entz-20240718145000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:45, 18 July 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-320" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Template_internals_showing_in_module_error_from_Module:category_tree/poscatboiler/data/lang-specific/jpx" data-mw-thread-id="h-Template_internals_showing_in_module_error_from_Module:category_tree/poscatboile-20240719211900">Template internals showing in module error from <a href="/wiki/Module:category_tree/poscatboiler/data/lang-specific/jpx" title="Module:category tree/poscatboiler/data/lang-specific/jpx">Module:category tree/poscatboiler/data/lang-specific/jpx</a></h2>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Theknightwho&action=edit&section=66" title="Edit section: Template internals showing in module error from Module:category tree/poscatboiler/data/lang-specific/jpx">edit</a>]<div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata">Latest comment: <a href="#c-Theknightwho-20240719215000-Chuck_Entz-20240719211900">4 months ago</a>2 comments2 people in discussion</div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <a href="/wiki/Category:Japanese_terms_spelled_with_%E5%85%9C_read_as_%E3%81%A8%E3%81%86" title="Category:Japanese terms spelled with 兜 read as とう">Category:Japanese terms spelled with 兜 read as とう</a> had a rather odd module error due to <code style="white-space:pre-wrap">{{<a href="/wiki/Template:auto_cat#top" title="Template:auto cat">auto cat</a>}}</code> being used without a reading type. I fixed it by copying the reading type from the sole entry in the category, but you may want to rethink using inline formatting templates like <code style="white-space:pre-wrap">{{<a href="/wiki/Template:code#top" title="Template:code">code</a>}}</code> in error messages. The message was: Lua error in Module category_tree/poscatboiler/data/lang-specific/jpx at <a href="/wiki/Module:category_tree/poscatboiler/data/lang-specific/jpx#L-626" title="Module:category tree/poscatboiler/data/lang-specific/jpx">line 626</a>: For categories of the form "Japanese terms spelled with KANJI read as READING", at least one reading type (e.g. <syntaxhighlight inline="1" lang="text">kun</syntaxhighlight> or <syntaxhighlight inline="1" lang="text">on</syntaxhighlight>) must be specified using 1=, 2=, 3=, etc. This obviously only comes up when there's a similar category without the necessary parameters and it only affects readability, so it's not urgent. <a href="/wiki/User:Chuck_Entz" title="User:Chuck Entz">Chuck Entz</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Chuck_Entz" title="User talk:Chuck Entz">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Chuck_Entz-20240719211900-Template_internals_showing_in_module_error_from_Module:category_tree/poscatboile" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:19, 19 July 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-321" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:Chuck_Entz" title="User:Chuck Entz">Chuck Entz</a> Thanks - good to know. I'll change it. <a href="/wiki/User:Theknightwho" title="User:Theknightwho">Theknightwho</a> (<a class="mw-selflink selflink">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Theknightwho-20240719215000-Chuck_Entz-20240719211900" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:50, 19 July 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-322" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="redirects" data-mw-thread-id="h-redirects-20240724231300">redirects</h2>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Theknightwho&action=edit&section=67" title="Edit section: redirects">edit</a>]<div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata">Latest comment: <a href="#c-Kwamikagami-20240724231300-redirects">4 months ago</a>1 comment1 person in discussion</div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> I thought of this when I saw your recent edits to <a href="/wiki/%E2%86%91" title="↑">↑</a> etc. I've redirected superscript letters that are used in phonetics to the baseline letter, and describe their use there, under the phonetic definition. E.g. <a href="/wiki/%E1%B5%84" class="mw-redirect" title="ᵄ">ᵄ</a>. I did this after the example of the digits, e.g. <a href="/wiki/%E2%81%B0" class="mw-redirect" title="⁰">⁰</a>. Should I split the phonetic symbols off as separate articles? (I made exceptions for superscript letters that have more complex usage, or that are specified by the IPA for certain uses. Those have their own articles.) <a href="/wiki/User:Kwamikagami" title="User:Kwamikagami">kwami</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Kwamikagami" title="User talk:Kwamikagami">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Kwamikagami-20240724231300-redirects" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:13, 24 July 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-323" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Reconstruction:Latin/ranceo" data-mw-thread-id="h-Reconstruction:Latin/ranceo-20240726063000"><a href="/wiki/Reconstruction:Latin/ranceo" title="Reconstruction:Latin/ranceo">Reconstruction:Latin/ranceo</a></h2>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Theknightwho&action=edit&section=68" title="Edit section: Reconstruction:Latin/ranceo">edit</a>]<div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata">Latest comment: <a href="#c-Urszag-20240726065900-Chuck_Entz-20240726063000">4 months ago</a>2 comments2 people in discussion</div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> The problem with throwing an error for headwords in the Reconstruction namespace without "*" is that it doesn't account for normal languages where only the unattested forms are reconstructed. Unless I'm mistaken, that makes it pretty much impossible to use language-specific headword templates in reconstructed lemma forms. But then, I'm not sure there's a satisfactory way for headword and inflection templates in attested/normal languages to deal with forms that are in the reconstruction namespace. Since attestation patterns aren't the sort of thing that one can code for, there would have to be some kind of manual override. <a href="/wiki/User:Chuck_Entz" title="User:Chuck Entz">Chuck Entz</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Chuck_Entz" title="User talk:Chuck Entz">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Chuck_Entz-20240726063000-Reconstruction:Latin/ranceo" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">06:30, 26 July 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-324" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd><a href="/wiki/Reconstruction:Latin/ranceo" title="Reconstruction:Latin/ranceo">Reconstruction:Latin/ranceo</a> shouldn't exist: it's duplicated by <a href="/wiki/ranceo#Latin" title="ranceo">ranceō</a>, and given that non-participial forms, including "ranceo", appear in glosses or word lists later on, it makes more sense to have the entry just be in the main namespace with a usage note. However, given that Reconstruction:Latin/ranceo existed separately from 2019 up until now, I think the edit history ought to be merged into that of <a href="/wiki/ranceo" title="ranceo">ranceo</a>, but I'm not really familiar with that process, which seems to require an admin.--<a href="/wiki/User:Urszag" title="User:Urszag">Urszag</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Urszag" title="User talk:Urszag">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Urszag-20240726065900-Chuck_Entz-20240726063000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">06:59, 26 July 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-325" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="送り仮名" data-mw-thread-id="h-送り仮名-20240803205800"><a href="/wiki/%E9%80%81%E3%82%8A%E4%BB%AE%E5%90%8D" title="送り仮名">送り仮名</a></h2>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Theknightwho&action=edit&section=69" title="Edit section: 送り仮名">edit</a>]<div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata">Latest comment: <a href="#c-Theknightwho-20240803210300-Chuck_Entz-20240803205800">3 months ago</a>2 comments2 people in discussion</div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> I'm guessing the transclusion module is having trouble with all of the entry-scraping done by the templates at English <a href="/wiki/okurigana#English" title="okurigana">okurigana</a>. So far, this is the only such entry in <a href="/wiki/Category:E" class="mw-redirect" title="Category:E">CAT:E</a>, but there are others transcluding the same sense that just haven't updated the category links. <a href="/wiki/User:Chuck_Entz" title="User:Chuck Entz">Chuck Entz</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Chuck_Entz" title="User talk:Chuck Entz">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Chuck_Entz-20240803205800-送り仮名" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:58, 3 August 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-326" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:Chuck_Entz" title="User:Chuck Entz">Chuck Entz</a> Thanks - I spotted this shortly before you commented here. The short-term solution is to not use <code style="white-space:pre-wrap">{{<a href="/wiki/Template:transclude#top" title="Template:transclude">tcl</a>}}</code>, as the proper fix requires a total rewrite of the transclusion module. The current one is a bit of a bodge that has special-purpose handling for a select few templates, as it pre-dates the template parser. <a href="/wiki/User:Theknightwho" title="User:Theknightwho">Theknightwho</a> (<a class="mw-selflink selflink">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Theknightwho-20240803210300-Chuck_Entz-20240803205800" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:03, 3 August 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-327" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Why've_you_removed_the_prononciation_/ɛː/_for_the_SQUARE_vowel?" data-mw-thread-id="h-Why've_you_removed_the_prononciation_/ɛː/_for_the_SQUARE_vowel?-20240804212300">Why've you removed the prononciation /ɛː/ for the SQUARE vowel?</h2>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Theknightwho&action=edit&section=70" title="Edit section: Why've you removed the prononciation /ɛː/ for the SQUARE vowel?">edit</a>]<div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata">Latest comment: <a href="#c-Theknightwho-20240804212800-UmbrellaTheLeef-20240804212300">3 months ago</a>2 comments2 people in discussion</div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> A few months ago you removed the prononciation /ɛː/ for the vowel of SQUARE, also written /ɛə/ or /eə/. You gave the reason that /ɛ/ (a separate vowel from /ɛː/) is a lax vowel and lax vowels cannot be lengthened in RP. I really don't understand this raisoning. Yes, /ɛː/ happens to share the quality of /ɛ/ a "lax vowel". But that doesn't mean that the quality [ɛ] is fundamentally lax. /ɛː/ can appear at the end of syllables in English, whereäs /ɛ/ cannot. Collins <a rel="nofollow" class="external autonumber" href="https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/square">[12]</a> and Cambridge <a rel="nofollow" class="external autonumber" href="https://dictionary.cambridge.org/pronunciation/english/square">[13]</a> both give the transcription /eəʳ/ for the word "square", but the audio is clearly [skwɛː] in both cases. The OED <a rel="nofollow" class="external autonumber" href="https://www.oed.com/information/understanding-entries/pronunciation/british-english-pronunciations">[14]</a> states that "For many RP speakers, SQUARE is not diphthongal as traditionally regarded but a tense monophthong in the region of the DRESS vowel." So it seems that the prononciation /ɛː/ for the SQUARE vowel is not nonexistant as you claim, but is in fact accepted and widespread. I think we should at least list it as an alternative prononciation. <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:UmbrellaTheLeef&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:UmbrellaTheLeef (page does not exist)">UmbrellaTheLeef</a> (<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:UmbrellaTheLeef&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User talk:UmbrellaTheLeef (page does not exist)">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-UmbrellaTheLeef-20240804212300-Why've_you_removed_the_prononciation_/ɛː/_for_the_SQUARE_vowel?" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:23, 4 August 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-328" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>@<a href="/w/index.php?title=User:UmbrellaTheLeef&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:UmbrellaTheLeef (page does not exist)">UmbrellaTheLeef</a> Different dictionaries take different approaches to representing the same phoneme. There is nothing phonemically distinct between the phonetic realisations [ɛə] and [ɛː] in English, so we shouldn't be giving them as two separate phonemic pronunciations. We need to pick /ɛə/ or /ɛː/, and I chose /ɛə/ in accordance with <a href="/wiki/Appendix:English_pronunciation" title="Appendix:English pronunciation">Appendix:English pronunciation</a>. All of the differences you refer to are phonetic, which aren't relevant in a phonemic transcription. <a href="/wiki/User:Theknightwho" title="User:Theknightwho">Theknightwho</a> (<a class="mw-selflink selflink">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Theknightwho-20240804212800-UmbrellaTheLeef-20240804212300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:28, 4 August 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-329" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="rfap_bugfix_bugfix" data-mw-thread-id="h-rfap_bugfix_bugfix-20240816114900">rfap bugfix bugfix</h2>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Theknightwho&action=edit&section=71" title="Edit section: rfap bugfix bugfix">edit</a>]<div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata">Latest comment: <a href="#c-Theknightwho-20240816115800-Ncfavier-20240816114900">3 months ago</a>2 comments2 people in discussion</div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> Hi, please double check my <a class="external text" href="https://en.wiktionary.org/w/index.php?title=Template:rfap&diff=prev&oldid=81056792">edit</a> to your bugfix to the rfap template. <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Ncfavier&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Ncfavier (page does not exist)">Ncfavier</a> (<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Ncfavier&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User talk:Ncfavier (page does not exist)">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Ncfavier-20240816114900-rfap_bugfix_bugfix" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">11:49, 16 August 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-330" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>@<a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Ncfavier&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Ncfavier (page does not exist)">Ncfavier</a> Yes, that's correct - thanks. <a href="/wiki/User:Theknightwho" title="User:Theknightwho">Theknightwho</a> (<a class="mw-selflink selflink">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Theknightwho-20240816115800-Ncfavier-20240816114900" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">11:58, 16 August 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-331" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Error_thrown_but_probably_okay" data-mw-thread-id="h-Error_thrown_but_probably_okay-20240817080400">Error thrown but probably okay</h2>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Theknightwho&action=edit&section=72" title="Edit section: Error thrown but probably okay">edit</a>]<div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata">Latest comment: <a href="#c-Theknightwho-20240817172500-FeralOink-20240817172300">3 months ago</a>4 comments2 people in discussion</div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> Hello, Knight. I noticed a puzzling <a href="/wiki/Category:Pages_with_1_entry" title="Category:Pages with 1 entry">category, named Pages with 1 entry</a> on a definition in mainspace (<a href="/wiki/laud" title="laud">laud</a> or maybe <a href="/wiki/laudative" title="laudative">laudative</a>). I clicked and was dismayed that it threw an error. So I dredged around a bit, and noticed you had created 5 new categories of the form Category:Pages with x entry/entries for x = 1 to 5 and entry = number of language(s). I also saw your reason for doing so, it was documented, to check number of Wiktionary definitions. I just wanted you to be aware re <a href="/wiki/Category:Pages_with_1_entry" title="Category:Pages with 1 entry">Category:Pages_with_1_entry</a>, as it has over 1.042 million members. Since it is a hidden category, it is probably okay, so I'm just casually mentioning it. I promise not to click on it again! <a href="/wiki/User:FeralOink" title="User:FeralOink">FeralOink</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:FeralOink" title="User talk:FeralOink">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-FeralOink-20240817080400-Error_thrown_but_probably_okay" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">08:04, 17 August 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-332" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:FeralOink" title="User:FeralOink">FeralOink</a> Thanks for letting me know - I hadn't realised this limit existed. They haven't fully populated yet, but the intention is to use these categories to determine the total number of entries by summing the number of members in each category, so the only thing that really matters is that <code style="white-space:pre-wrap">{{<a href="https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Help:Magic_words#Statistics" class="extiw" title="mw:Help:Magic words">PAGESINCATEGORY</a>:<a href="/wiki/Category:Pages_with_1_entry#top" title="Category:Pages with 1 entry">Pages with 1 entry</a>|pages}}</code> works, which it seems to for the time being. <a href="/wiki/User:Theknightwho" title="User:Theknightwho">Theknightwho</a> (<a class="mw-selflink selflink">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Theknightwho-20240817134200-FeralOink-20240817080400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">13:42, 17 August 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-333" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd>Not to be an annoyance, but Pages with 1 Entry doesn't work for me. Pages with 5 entries and 3 entries are just fine. I had tried them earlier. However, when I try to navigate to Pages with 1 entry now (I did it again to tell you, promise I won't repeat) I am still getting this error message:</dd></dl></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd>“To avoid creating high database load, this query was aborted because the duration exceeded the limit. If you are reading many items at once, try doing multiple smaller operations instead.</dd> <dd></dd> <dd>[0e35f7a0-5b4a-4d7c-9816-2f19f82f4a02] 2024-08-17 15:14:24: Fatal exception of type "Wikimedia\Rdbms\DBQueryTimeoutError.”</dd></dl></dd> <dd>I'll let you take over from here!--<a href="/wiki/User:FeralOink" title="User:FeralOink">FeralOink</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:FeralOink" title="User talk:FeralOink">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-FeralOink-20240817172300-Theknightwho-20240817134200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:23, 17 August 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-334" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:FeralOink" title="User:FeralOink">FeralOink</a> Sorry, I understand what you mean - what I meant was that so long as <code style="white-space:pre-wrap">{{<a href="https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Help:Magic_words#Statistics" class="extiw" title="mw:Help:Magic words">PAGESINCATEGORY</a>:<a href="/wiki/Category:Pages_with_1_entry#top" title="Category:Pages with 1 entry">Pages with 1 entry</a>|pages}}</code> works (e.g. 7,515,271) then the fact that the page itself won't load isn't a big deal, since what we need it for is that total number. Thanks again. <a href="/wiki/User:Theknightwho" title="User:Theknightwho">Theknightwho</a> (<a class="mw-selflink selflink">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Theknightwho-20240817172500-FeralOink-20240817172300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:25, 17 August 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-335" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Romanization_of_炎（ほのお）" data-mw-thread-id="h-Romanization_of_炎（ほのお）-20240824011000">Romanization of 炎（ほのお）</h2>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Theknightwho&action=edit&section=73" title="Edit section: Romanization of 炎（ほのお）">edit</a>]<div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata">Latest comment: <a href="#c-Sartma-20240922112200-Urszag-20240922025800">2 months ago</a>37 comments5 people in discussion</div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> Hello Theknightwho - The romanization of 炎（ほのお） is not correct. Honoo is correct, not honō. The 4th edition of the Kenkyusha's New Japanese-English Dictionary (which is the authoritative dictionnary for the Hepburn romanization used on Wiktionary) has honoo. The reason is that this word is not pronounced with a long voyel but instead the last o is pronounced on its own (of course, in rapid speach the difference may not be clear). Several accent/pronunciation dictionaries including the famous NHK accent dictionary shows ホノオ, instead of *ホノー. Thank you for reconsidering this. <a href="/wiki/User:Maidodo" title="User:Maidodo">Maidodo</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Maidodo" title="User talk:Maidodo">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Maidodo-20240824011000-Romanization_of_炎（ほのお）" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:10, 24 August 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-336" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:Maidodo" title="User:Maidodo">Maidodo</a> Alright - I’ve changed the romanisation. The main issue was the big warning you added, but I agree that the morpheme boundary means the romanisation should be “honoo”. I’ve also changed it in several other places to match, too. <a href="/wiki/User:Theknightwho" title="User:Theknightwho">Theknightwho</a> (<a class="mw-selflink selflink">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Theknightwho-20240824072200-Maidodo-20240824011000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">07:22, 24 August 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-337" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:Theknightwho" title="User:Theknightwho">Theknightwho</a> - Thank you. I am not knowledgeable about wiki conventions, so I appreciate you putting everything in order. <a href="/wiki/User:Maidodo" title="User:Maidodo">Maidodo</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Maidodo" title="User talk:Maidodo">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Maidodo-20240824084600-Theknightwho-20240824072200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">08:46, 24 August 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-338" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:Theknightwho" title="User:Theknightwho">Theknightwho</a>, @<a href="/wiki/User:Maidodo" title="User:Maidodo">Maidodo</a>, while this term derives from a compound, arguably there is no morpheme boundary anymore in modern Japanese: this word is lexicalized as a single thing, ほのお, not ほ + の + お. Much like あにい is historically an apparent result of "K" elision from あにき, leaving us with monomorphemic あにい, resultingly romanized as anī.</dd> <dd>(Minor quibble on my part, I don't feel super strongly about this.) ‑‑ <a href="/wiki/User:Eirikr" title="User:Eirikr">Eiríkr Útlendi</a> │<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Eirikr" title="User talk:Eirikr">Tala við mig</a> <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Eirikr-20240904010500-Maidodo-20240824084600" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:05, 4 September 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-339" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:Eirikr" title="User:Eirikr">Eirikr</a>: I think TKW has only mentioned morpheme boundaries on this talk page. Vance 2008:62 (The Sounds of Japanese) analyzes honoo as synchronically one morpheme but says it can be pronounced nevertheless with rearticulation between [no] and [o].--<a href="/wiki/User:Urszag" title="User:Urszag">Urszag</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Urszag" title="User talk:Urszag">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Urszag-20240904034300-Eirikr-20240904010500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">03:43, 4 September 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-340" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd> <dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:Eirikr" title="User:Eirikr">Eirikr</a> @<a href="/wiki/User:Urszag" title="User:Urszag">Urszag</a> @<a href="/wiki/User:Theknightwho" title="User:Theknightwho">Theknightwho</a> Hello. I agree that ほのお can be seen as monomorphemic for contemporary native speakers, but the NHK and Shinmeikai pronunciation dictionaries show that this is not a long vowel. My point was based on the assumption that ō should be only used for long vowels (長音). But I am aware that this is not as easy as it seems, especially when you take 遠い which is pronounced トーイ, while its past form 遠かった is pronounced トオカッタ due to the accented オ. <a href="/wiki/User:Maidodo" title="User:Maidodo">Maidodo</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Maidodo" title="User talk:Maidodo">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Maidodo-20240904090300-Eirikr-20240904010500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">09:03, 4 September 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-341" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:Urszag" title="User:Urszag">Urszag</a>, @<a href="/wiki/User:Maidodo" title="User:Maidodo">Maidodo</a>, point taken that ほのお is one morpheme, but with distinct "o" phonemes.</dd> <dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:Maidodo" title="User:Maidodo">Maidodo</a>, interesting point about とおかった. That said, the two "o" morae there do not have a downstep separating them (as we see with the latter two "o"s in ほのお), no clear phonemic break, so I feel like there is less reason to romanize the "o"s separately. Does that make sense? ‑‑ <a href="/wiki/User:Eirikr" title="User:Eirikr">Eiríkr Útlendi</a> │<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Eirikr" title="User talk:Eirikr">Tala við mig</a> <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Eirikr-20240904175900-Maidodo-20240904090300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:59, 4 September 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-342" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>It doesn't make much sense to describe the downstep as separating vowels, since the normal pattern for an accented syllable that ends in a long vowel is to show downstep before the second mora, such as [koː] in <a href="/wiki/%E6%A0%A1%E8%88%8E#Japanese" title="校舎">校舎</a> kōsha kóꜜòshà). That is why a downstep after the second mora is often taken as evidence for the vowels being in separate syllables.--<a href="/wiki/User:Urszag" title="User:Urszag">Urszag</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Urszag" title="User talk:Urszag">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Urszag-20240904181900-Eirikr-20240904175900" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:19, 4 September 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-343" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd><dl><dd>"separate syllables"</dd></dl></dd> <dd>??? I don't recall syllables being much of a consideration for standard Japanese?</dd> <dd>If we ignore downsteps entirely, then surely ほのお should be transcribed as honō, no? What other justification would we have for treating the last two "o" morae as separate, for romanization purposes? ‑‑ <a href="/wiki/User:Eirikr" title="User:Eirikr">Eiríkr Útlendi</a> │<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Eirikr" title="User talk:Eirikr">Tala við mig</a> <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Eirikr-20240904235400-Urszag-20240904181900" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:54, 4 September 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-344" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:Eirikr" title="User:Eirikr">Eirikr</a> @<a href="/wiki/User:Urszag" title="User:Urszag">Urszag</a></dd> <dd>As you probably know NHK and Shinmeikai are authoritative dictionary in terms of Japanese standard pronunciation. Both draw a difference between オ列＋長音記号 (e.g. コー in 氷) and オ列＋オ (e.g. ノオ in 炎), despite similar kana spelling (kana is not strictly phonetic, as you know). Long vowels are always rendered by a chōonpu (ー) in those dictionaries. 校舎 is コーシャ, with an accent on the first mora. The fall of pitch after コ does not make the ー part being pronounced as a separate vowel. But when the accent comes on the second mora, like in トオカッタ, then オ is clearly pronounced separately in standard / normal speed speech. In that regards, 炎 looks a very specific case, as the final /o/ is not accentuated while being pronounced as a separate vowel.</dd> <dd>With that in mind, regarding the romanization, I believe it is a matter of convention. I am now supposing that the rule on Wiktionary (contrary to the Kenkyusha's dictionary) implies that only morpheme boundaries (morphemes as understood by contemporary native speakers, regardless of etymological analysis) should prevent using a macron (like in 里親 satooya). Then, honō would be okay. That said, I believe it should be noted somewhere that ō is not always pronounced /oR/ (i.e., a long /o/) but sometimes as two distinct /o/ as in /honoo/ or /tookatta/. In other words, this convention on macro usage is not 100% based on genuine pronunciation: it is rather based on the kana spelling and the morphemic boundaries.</dd> <dd>Finally, the 現代仮名遣い rules themselves have acknowledged this ambiguity: <a rel="nofollow" class="external free" href="https://www.bunka.go.jp/kokugo_nihongo/sisaku/joho/joho/kijun/naikaku/gendaikana/honbun_dai2.html">https://www.bunka.go.jp/kokugo_nihongo/sisaku/joho/joho/kijun/naikaku/gendaikana/honbun_dai2.html</a> point #6</dd> <dd>It says that オ列＋オ is not necessarily a long vowel, and may depends on the cases. Please note that, in this remark provided by the 現代仮名遣い rules, the point is not the obvious morphemic boundaries like in the word 里親 satooya, which are clearly not long vowels.</dd> <dd>Following this convention, ō would never be ambiguous when the macron represents the kana う, but ō may be ambiguous when it represents the kana お. I guess this is worth noting this nuance somewhere in the romanization conventions. Something similar happens with the romanization of ん as 'n', while the actual pronunciation of this mora depends on the cases. Same with the nasalisation of ガ行 (<a href="/wiki/%E9%BC%BB%E6%BF%81%E9%9F%B3" title="鼻濁音">鼻濁音</a>). <a href="/wiki/User:Maidodo" title="User:Maidodo">Maidodo</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Maidodo" title="User talk:Maidodo">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Maidodo-20240905002900-Eirikr-20240904235400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:29, 5 September 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-345" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:Eirikr" title="User:Eirikr">Eirikr</a> This is a side issue, but how do Japanese dictionaries represent phonetic breaks like this? Is there a way to do it using kana?</dd> <dd><div class="paragraphbreak" style="margin-top:0.5em"></div></dd> <dd>The reason I ask is that <a href="/wiki/%E7%82%8E#Japanese" title="炎">炎</a> is categorised in <a href="/wiki/Category:Japanese_kanji_with_kun_reading_%E3%81%BB%E3%81%AE%E3%81%8A" title="Category:Japanese kanji with kun reading ほのお">Category:Japanese kanji with kun reading ほのお</a> whether we analyse it as <a href="/wiki/%E3%81%BB%E3%81%AE%E3%81%8A#Japanese" title="ほのお">ほのお</a> (honō) or <a href="/wiki/%E3%81%BB%E3%81%AE%E3%81%8A#Japanese" title="ほのお">ほのお</a> (honoo), but there are minimal pairs. e.g. <a href="/wiki/%E6%B3%B3#Japanese" title="泳"><ruby>泳<rp>(</rp><rt>えい</rt><rp>)</rp></ruby></a> (ei) [e̞ː] and <a href="/wiki/%E9%B1%8F#Japanese" title="鱏"><ruby>鱏<rp>(</rp><rt>えい</rt><rp>)</rp></ruby></a> (ei) [e̞i], which both ultimately go into <a href="/wiki/Category:Japanese_kanji_read_as_%E3%81%88%E3%81%84" title="Category:Japanese kanji read as えい">Category:Japanese kanji read as えい</a>. <a href="/wiki/User:Theknightwho" title="User:Theknightwho">Theknightwho</a> (<a class="mw-selflink selflink">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Theknightwho-20240905231100-Maidodo-20240905002900" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:11, 5 September 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-346" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>The <a href="/wiki/%E6%B3%B3#Japanese" title="泳"><ruby>泳<rp>(</rp><rt>えい</rt><rp>)</rp></ruby></a> (ei) [e̞ː] and <a href="/wiki/%E9%B1%8F#Japanese" title="鱏"><ruby>鱏<rp>(</rp><rt>えい</rt><rp>)</rp></ruby></a> (ei) [e̞i] examples are a bit different, since there we have contrasting vowel values, while in 炎 we have the same /o/ vowel in all morae.</dd> <dd>(Side note 1: The cases I'm aware of where kana ⟨ [C]ei ⟩ is realized as [e̞i] are kun'yomi, and derive from older forms with an interstitial consonant that has since elided, such as <a href="/wiki/%E5%A7%AA#Japanese" title="姪">姪</a> (mei), /mei/; whereas the on'yomi instances of kana ⟨ [C]ei ⟩ that I can think of are usually pronounced as long [e̞ː].)</dd> <dd>(Side note 2: The "fancy" editor will offer to turn copy-pasted categories from your post above into wikicode, but it doesn't handle copy-paste of <code style="white-space:pre-wrap">{{<a href="/wiki/Template:ja-r#top" title="Template:ja-r">ja-r</a>}}</code> at all, and just omits it entirely from the pasted content. Unsure if that's anything fixable...)</dd> <dd>In terms of kana notation to indicate differences in pronunciation, @<a href="/wiki/User:Maidodo" title="User:Maidodo">Maidodo</a>'s post above uses that to some extent: from what I've seen, Japanese resources that include this information are consistent in indicating long vowels with the 長音譜 or lengthening mark ー, while separate vowels are spelled out using the relevant kana. For the <a href="/wiki/%E6%B3%B3#Japanese" title="泳"><ruby>泳<rp>(</rp><rt>えい</rt><rp>)</rp></ruby></a> (ei) and <a href="/wiki/%E9%B1%8F#Japanese" title="鱏"><ruby>鱏<rp>(</rp><rt>えい</rt><rp>)</rp></ruby></a> (ei) examples above, the former would be annotated as エー, and the latter as エイ. That said, I think えい is still the "reading", inasmuch as the よみ (be it 音読み or 訓読み) is spelled that way. Reading = よみ = kana spelling, while what we're talking about in this thread has more to do with the finer points of pronunciation (発音). ‑‑ <a href="/wiki/User:Eirikr" title="User:Eirikr">Eiríkr Útlendi</a> │<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Eirikr" title="User talk:Eirikr">Tala við mig</a> <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Eirikr-20240906172800-Theknightwho-20240905231100" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:28, 6 September 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-347" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:Eirikr" title="User:Eirikr">Eirikr</a> I suppose that's true to a point, but I think we do need to make a distinction, because there's a minimal triple: <ul><li><a href="/wiki/%E6%B1%9F#Japanese" title="江"><ruby>江<rp>(</rp><rt>ええ</rt><rp>)</rp></ruby></a> (ē) [e̞ː]</li> <li><a href="/wiki/%E6%B3%B3#Japanese" title="泳"><ruby>泳<rp>(</rp><rt>えい</rt><rp>)</rp></ruby></a> (ei) [e̞ː]</li> <li><a href="/wiki/%E9%B1%8F#Japanese" title="鱏"><ruby>鱏<rp>(</rp><rt>えい</rt><rp>)</rp></ruby></a> (ei) [e̞i]</li></ul></dd> <dd>Japanese seems to retain a pretty consistent distinction between the pronunciations of <a href="/wiki/%E3%82%A8%E3%83%BC#Japanese" title="エー">エー</a> (ē) and <a href="/wiki/%E3%82%A8%E3%82%A4#Japanese" title="エイ">エイ</a> (ei) in katakana due to the influence of foreign loans (which I suspect is why 鱏, usually written エイ, has maintained [e̞i], even though it's written in katakana for a completely different reason), so I think there's a case for treating these three separately until such time that kana spelling gets updated again. <a href="/wiki/User:Theknightwho" title="User:Theknightwho">Theknightwho</a> (<a class="mw-selflink selflink">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Theknightwho-20240906175000-Eirikr-20240906172800" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:50, 6 September 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-348" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>I'm curious, where are you seeing ええ listed as a reading for 江? I'm only familiar with this kun'yomi as the single-mora え, and looking right now in my references, that's the only kun'yomi listed for this kanji. ‑‑ <a href="/wiki/User:Eirikr" title="User:Eirikr">Eiríkr Útlendi</a> │<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Eirikr" title="User talk:Eirikr">Tala við mig</a> <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Eirikr-20240906175500-Theknightwho-20240906175000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:55, 6 September 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-349" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:Eirikr" title="User:Eirikr">Eirikr</a> We list it as a nanori reading. I made a slight mistake, though - we actually list it as <a href="/wiki/%E6%B1%9F#Japanese" title="江"><ruby>江<rp>(</rp><rt>ええ</rt><rp>)</rp></ruby></a> (ee) [e̞e̞], though I've managed to find it in Jim Breen's dictionary (<a rel="nofollow" class="external autonumber" href="https://www.edrdg.org/jmwsgi/entr.py?svc=jmdict&e=1443885">[15]</a>), albeit with no clarification as to whether it's ē or ee, since that dictionary doesn't use macrons. Regardless, it's still a minimal triple. <a href="/wiki/User:Theknightwho" title="User:Theknightwho">Theknightwho</a> (<a class="mw-selflink selflink">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Theknightwho-20240906175900-Eirikr-20240906175500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:59, 6 September 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-350" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>Ah, thank you, nanori are weird ones. 😄</dd> <dd>Re-reading this, I don't see a triple? <ul><li>For ええ as pronunciation /eː/, we have nanori kana spelling ええ for <a href="/wiki/%E6%B1%9F#Japanese" title="江">江</a> and on'yomi kana spelling えい for various kanji. <ul><li>In romanization, the yomi ええ should be rendered as ⟨ ē ⟩, and the yomi えい should be rendered as ⟨ ei ⟩.</li></ul></li> <li>For えい as pronunciation /ei/, we have kun'yomi kana spelling えい for <a href="/wiki/%E9%B1%8F#Japanese" title="鱏">鱏</a>. <ul><li>In romanization, this yomi should be rendered as ⟨ ei ⟩.</li></ul></li></ul></dd> <dd>I think your underlying point is that we have mismatches between the yomi and the pronunciations, about which I agree. So long as we keep pronunciation and yomi templates separate, and have means for editors to manually specify overrides where appropriate, I think we're in the clear, no? ‑‑ <a href="/wiki/User:Eirikr" title="User:Eirikr">Eiríkr Útlendi</a> │<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Eirikr" title="User talk:Eirikr">Tala við mig</a> <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Eirikr-20240906233500-Theknightwho-20240906175900" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:35, 6 September 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-351" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:Eirikr" title="User:Eirikr">Eirikr</a> It becomes an issue with <a href="/wiki/Category:Japanese_terms_spelled_with_kanji_read_as_%E3%81%88%E3%81%84" title="Category:Japanese terms spelled with kanji read as えい">Category:Japanese terms spelled with kanji read as えい</a>, because you end up with two readings mixed together, due to the differing pronunciations. Fundamentally, I think that the pronunciation and spelling are both core aspects of a reading, which means that I see these as three separate readings: <ol><li>Spelled ええ, read [e̞ː].</li> <li>Spelled えい, read [e̞ː].</li> <li>Spelled えい, read [e̞i].</li></ol></dd> <dd>Perhaps I'm coming at this from a different angle because of my background in Chinese (where pronunciation is everything when it comes to differentiating readings), but I don't think it makes sense to only consider the kana spelling either. <a href="/wiki/User:Theknightwho" title="User:Theknightwho">Theknightwho</a> (<a class="mw-selflink selflink">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Theknightwho-20240907001400-Eirikr-20240906233500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:14, 7 September 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-352" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>Hmm, hmm. As far as Japanese lexicographic resources go, yomi = kana spelling, and as far as English-language references of Japanese go, yomi = "reading". It also follows that yomi ≠ pronunciation (at least, not as a one-to-one match). This is why those Japanese references that include pronunciation details have developed different notation for this, and list this separately from the straightforward kana spelling of the word.</dd> <dd>As for <a href="/wiki/Category:Japanese_terms_spelled_with_kanji_read_as_%E3%81%88%E3%81%84" title="Category:Japanese terms spelled with kanji read as えい">Category:Japanese terms spelled with kanji read as えい</a>, that could never (and should not) include any terms with the kana spelling of ええ, since ええ ≠ えい. That said, the category should include both 永 and 鱏, as both of these are spelled in kana as (i.e. have the yomi of) えい.</dd> <dd>I think the underlying issue is that yomi and pronunciation do not always match. We have so far categorized by yomi, not by pronunciation. <a href="/wiki/HTH#English" title="HTH">HTH</a>! ‑‑ <a href="/wiki/User:Eirikr" title="User:Eirikr">Eiríkr Útlendi</a> │<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Eirikr" title="User talk:Eirikr">Tala við mig</a> <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Eirikr-20240907003000-Theknightwho-20240907001400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:30, 7 September 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-353" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd> <dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:Eirikr" title="User:Eirikr">Eirikr</a>: Setting aside pitch accent, it's possible for two vowel sounds to be separated by a 'rearticulation' before the second vowel sound. This contrasts with a pronunciation of a single elongated vowel sound, which has no rearticulation. I put some information about this in the Wikipedia "<a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_phonology#Long_vowels_and_vowel_sequences" class="extiw" title="w:Japanese phonology">Japanese phonology</a>" article and you can see the relevant acoustic data in Vance's The Sounds of Japanese, <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://books.google.com/books?id=Hos-XSzQ87AC&pg=PA59">page 59</a>: rearticulation is not a complete pause or stop, but it is visible as a dip in intensity. So there is simply a phonetic difference that can be observed between a careful pronunciation of long [oː] and of double [o*o] (where "*" represents this kind of rearticulation; there seems to be no unambiguous IPA symbol for it), even if they have identical pitch contours. Per Vance, [o*o] can be interpreted phonologically as /o.o/, with a syllable boundary. While syllables aren't self-evident to non-linguistically trained Japanese speakers, they are recognized as a prosodic unit of Japanese by a number of linguists. Actually, even some analysts who argue against the existence of the syllable in Japanese, such as Laurence Labrune, don't dispute that there can be a phonetic distinction between double vowels and long vowels (The Phonology of Japanese, 2012, <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://books.google.com/books?id=ix9r6CbEl6IC&pg=PA45">page 45</a>). I hope that helps clarify why one might use the transcription "honoo" as opposed to "honō".--<a href="/wiki/User:Urszag" title="User:Urszag">Urszag</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Urszag" title="User talk:Urszag">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Urszag-20240905231600-Urszag-20240904181900" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:16, 5 September 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-354" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:Urszag" title="User:Urszag">Urszag</a>, I appreciate the further detail. I am familiar with the basics of the phenomenon, as seen for instance in the nonce sentence, <a href="/wiki/%E9%B3%B3%E5%87%B0#Japanese" title="鳳凰"><ruby>鳳凰<rp>(</rp><rt>ほうおう</rt><rp>)</rp></ruby></a><a href="/wiki/%E3%82%92#Japanese" title="を">を</a><a href="/wiki/%E8%BF%BD%E3%81%86#Japanese" title="追う"><ruby>追<rp>(</rp><rt>お</rt><rp>)</rp></ruby>う</a><a href="/wiki/%E7%8E%8B#Japanese" title="王"><ruby>王<rp>(</rp><rt>おお</rt><rp>)</rp></ruby></a><a href="/wiki/%E3%82%92#Japanese" title="を">を</a><a href="/wiki/%E8%A6%86%E3%81%86#Japanese" title="覆う"><ruby>覆<rp>(</rp><rt>おお</rt><rp>)</rp></ruby>おう</a> (hōō o ou ō o ōō, “let's hide the king who is chasing the phoenix”). What I'm trying to tease out here (albeit without having articulated it well) is some kind of clear guideline or set of criteria for how we [WT JA editors] determine the romanization of doubled vowels in a given term — something we [those of us in this thread] could add to the <a href="/wiki/Wiktionary:JA_TR" class="mw-redirect" title="Wiktionary:JA TR">WT:JA TR</a> page. ‑‑ <a href="/wiki/User:Eirikr" title="User:Eirikr">Eiríkr Útlendi</a> │<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Eirikr" title="User talk:Eirikr">Tala við mig</a> <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Eirikr-20240906174300-Urszag-20240905231600" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:43, 6 September 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-355" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:Eirikr" title="User:Eirikr">Eiríkr</a> Since it’s a (minor) ambiguity in the spelling system, there isn’t guaranteed to be any simple rule for when words spelled with o-line kana + お are pronounced with "ō" vs. "oo" other than "look up the pronunciation in a pronunciation dictionary and see if it uses ー", as @<a href="/wiki/User:Maidodo" title="User:Maidodo">Maidodo</a> mentioned. (Compare the need to use references for pronunciation information in languages like English, French, etc., rather than just assuming the pronunciation based on the spelling.) But as a practical rule of thumb, the pronunciation with separate vowels "oo" almost never occurs except across a morpheme boundary: ほのお is a rare exception, not part of any well-defined larger category of systematic exceptions to my knowledge. So the guideline I'd like to see followed would be "following the pronunciations given in pronunciation dictionaries, romanize long おー as ō and double おお as oo; if that is unavailable, romanize as ō within a morpheme, oo across morpheme boundaries." I'm not sure which specific dictionaries are the best sources. Another example I can think of is <a href="/wiki/%E9%A0%88%E4%BD%90%E4%B9%8B%E7%94%B7#Japanese" title="須佐之男">須佐之男</a> where the romanization Susanoo, reflecting the pronunciation with two short [o] sounds, is preferred over Susanō. Distinguishing "ō" and "oo" strictly on the basis of morphology, with zero reference to actual pronunciation, doesn't make as much sense to me as a prescribed norm of romanization: even if that criterion is slightly easier to apply, it isn't completely simple since morpheme boundaries aren't always obvious, and the information it conveys to the reader doesn't seem particularly useful or simple to interpret. That said, actual practice seems to be somewhat unsettled. I found these documents online that discuss the use of the macron: <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://www.eastasianlib.org/ctp/Subcommittees/sub_JapaneseRomanization/JRomanDiacriticsCEALresponseJan222012finalRev.pdf">CEAL Response to “Clarification of LC practice concerning the use of diacritical marks in Japanese romanization”</a> (January 22, 2012: "Appendix E: Another diacritic mark: the Macron") and <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="http://www2.hawaii.edu/~dni/CTP/Subcommittees/sub_JapaneseRomanization/JRTRevProposalTFResponseJune132012.pdf">CTP/CJM Joint Task Force’s Response to LC’s “Proposed Revision of the ALA-LC Japanese Romanization Table”</a> (June 13, 2012). Some proposed formal criteria for use of ō vs. oo are discussed in these.--<a href="/wiki/User:Urszag" title="User:Urszag">Urszag</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Urszag" title="User talk:Urszag">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Urszag-20240906190600-Eirikr-20240906174300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:06, 6 September 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-356" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:Eirikr" title="User:Eirikr">Eirikr</a> @<a href="/wiki/User:Urszag" title="User:Urszag">Urszag</a> It occurs to me that this is partially automatable without the need for special formatting like <code style="white-space:pre-wrap;" class="mw-highlight mw-highlight-lang-text mw-content-ltr" dir="ltr">.</code> so long as a module has access to both the kanji and kana inputs (as with <code style="white-space:pre-wrap">{{<a href="/wiki/Template:ja-pos#top" title="Template:ja-pos">ja-pos</a>}}</code> and <code style="white-space:pre-wrap">{{<a href="/wiki/Template:ja-r#top" title="Template:ja-r">ja-r</a>}}</code>), by simply blocking long vowels if they would occur across a kanji boundary. This wouldn't catch all cases, but it would catch quite a few of them. A quick-and-dirty solution would be for the module to simply add <code style="white-space:pre-wrap;" class="mw-highlight mw-highlight-lang-text mw-content-ltr" dir="ltr">.</code> in all the relevant places before feeding it through to the main transliteration module, since it doesn't matter if they're redundant. <a href="/wiki/User:Theknightwho" title="User:Theknightwho">Theknightwho</a> (<a class="mw-selflink selflink">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Theknightwho-20240906193000-Urszag-20240906190600" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:30, 6 September 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-357" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd> <dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:Urszag" title="User:Urszag">Urszag</a> @<a href="/wiki/User:Eirikr" title="User:Eirikr">Eirikr</a> @<a href="/wiki/User:Theknightwho" title="User:Theknightwho">Theknightwho</a> As you pointed out, the romanization ei is also another example where romanization, as well as kana orthography, is ambiguous in terms of phonological interpretation within morphemes. <a href="/wiki/Sino-Xenic" title="Sino-Xenic">Sino-Xenic</a> words can always be pronounced エ列＋長音符号 (/eR/ = a long 'e'), while dictionaries like the Shinmeikai Nihongo-Akusento note that pronouncing it as /ei/ is somehow common but is not standard except in low-speed speech (Ref: introductive commentaries, p.25). The Shinmeikai dictionnary has a specific notation using a sub-scripted ★ : this mark indicates that the standard pronunciation is /eR/ (long vowel) but that is is okay to pronounce it /ei/ in low speed. For example, 栄 is エイ★ while 'ray' (fish) is エイ. (I am ignoring the accents). As you know, ray is not a Sino-Xenic term (ei is a kun'yomi). As said by @<a href="/wiki/User:Eirikr" title="User:Eirikr">Eirikr</a>, within morphemes, the kun'yomi-based words have other cases like 'ray', but it doesn't mean that everything is pronounced /ei/ in the non-Sino-Xenic realm : sometimes it is identical to Sino-Xenic behaviors (e.g. アカエイ (fish) pronounced アカエイ★ ; or 稼いで pronounced カセイ★デ), sometimes it is a mere long vowel (e.g. 中背 pronounced チューゼー). In my view, it is often influenced by the pitch accent pattern. Regarding 'ei', to sum up I would say that the cases a morpheme is exclusively pronounced /ei/ are limited to kun'yomi and are very rare.</dd> <dd>Back to the お列＋お discussion, thank you for the phonetic details on 'rearticulation'. It's worth noting that, when we say double vowel, it is actually a phonological abstraction, since, in reality, the pronunciation is more subtle and may vary depending on situations, notably speed. @<a href="/wiki/User:Urszag" title="User:Urszag">Urszag</a>'s proposal makes a lot of sense, to my view. I am just slightly amending it using katakana following the Japanese custom of using hiragana for orthography (<a href="/wiki/%E4%BB%AE%E5%90%8D%E9%81%A3%E3%81%84" title="仮名遣い">仮名遣い</a>) and katakana for pronunciation. "Following the pronunciations given in pronunciation dictionaries, romanize long オー as ō and double オオ as oo; if that is unavailable, romanize as ō within a morpheme, oo across morpheme boundaries." The only difficulty I see is when there are several accepted pronunciations based on distinct pitch accent usage. Those cases are probably not so numerous, but I can think about 覆う, which is pronounced either オオウ or オーウ: the former has an accent on the second mora, while the later is not accentuated (平板型). What I would suggest is that, when accepted pronunciations includes one with a long vowel (オ列＋長音符号), then ō is chosen as the standard romanization. The reason is that ō is a kind of default romanization for お列＋お and we do not want to create numerous exceptions. Then, we would have ōu, tōi, but tookatta, because, indisputably, トオカッタ is the only standard pronunciation of the past form of 遠い.</dd> <dd>Finally, you may be aware that the Japanese government is now working on a revised standard rōmaji system to replace the currently official <a href="/wiki/%E8%A8%93%E4%BB%A4%E5%BC%8F%E3%83%AD%E3%83%BC%E3%83%9E%E5%AD%97%E7%B6%B4%E3%82%8A%E6%96%B9" title="訓令式ローマ字綴り方">kunrei-shiki rōmaji</a> which is not used a lot in practice. The discussions are still ongoing, as you can see here <a rel="nofollow" class="external free" href="https://www.bunka.go.jp/seisaku/bunkashingikai/kokugo/roman/roman_03/94105001.html">https://www.bunka.go.jp/seisaku/bunkashingikai/kokugo/roman/roman_03/94105001.html</a> (latest meeting was on August 29 this year), but it seems almost certain that the long vowel will be shown using a diacritical mark on the vowel (長音は、これまでと同様、母音字に長音符号を付して表す), but I am not sure what will be decided regarding え列＋い and お列＋お. My guess is that え列＋い will never use diacritical mark. Regarding お列＋お, I guess that ō will be chosen, but I am curious of the way it will treat the cases were お列＋お is actually a double vowel within a morpheme, like with ほのう. Those subtleties are explicitly mentioned in the 仮名遣い rules, so logically, they should at least be mentioned in the romanization system to be published – but we will see. A dictionary like Wiktionary can also be more accurate than the government, anyway. <a href="/wiki/User:Maidodo" title="User:Maidodo">Maidodo</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Maidodo" title="User talk:Maidodo">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Maidodo-20240906220500-Urszag-20240906190600" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:05, 6 September 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-358" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:Urszag" title="User:Urszag">Urszag</a>, @<a href="/wiki/User:Maidodo" title="User:Maidodo">Maidodo</a>, I support your proposals, with one caveat: <ul><li>"if that is unavailable, romanize as..."</li></ul></dd> <dd>What does "that" refer to here? Do you mean, "if you do not have access to a pronunciation dictionary that gives pronunciations in kana notation"?</dd> <dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:Theknightwho" title="User:Theknightwho">Theknightwho</a>, I confess I don't entirely follow, but from what little I think I understand, it sounds good to me. 😄 ‑‑ <a href="/wiki/User:Eirikr" title="User:Eirikr">Eiríkr Útlendi</a> │<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Eirikr" title="User talk:Eirikr">Tala við mig</a> <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Eirikr-20240906234400-Maidodo-20240906220500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:44, 6 September 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-359" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>Yes, that's what I had in mind: using morphological structure as a fallback criterion if there's no available entry for a term in a pronunciation dictionary.--<a href="/wiki/User:Urszag" title="User:Urszag">Urszag</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Urszag" title="User talk:Urszag">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Urszag-20240906235400-Eirikr-20240906234400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:54, 6 September 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-360" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:Urszag" title="User:Urszag">Urszag</a> When there are several standard/accepted pronunciations including one with a long vowel like 覆う (オーウ / オオウ) should we choose the macron as I suggested? <a href="/wiki/User:Maidodo" title="User:Maidodo">Maidodo</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Maidodo" title="User talk:Maidodo">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Maidodo-20240907004400-Urszag-20240906235400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:44, 7 September 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-361" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:Maidodo" title="User:Maidodo">Maidodo</a> I don't have a strong preference between just using a macron or showing both forms (e.g. "ōu or oou"), although maybe the latter would look too crowded.--<a href="/wiki/User:Urszag" title="User:Urszag">Urszag</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Urszag" title="User talk:Urszag">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Urszag-20240907005700-Maidodo-20240907004400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:57, 7 September 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-362" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>Understood. By the way, I can't understand why おおやけ is shown as おおやけ in the pronunction section, while 生命 is shown as せーめー. It would be more consistant in my opinion to have おーやけ. It would also align with Japanese pronunciation dictionaries. <a href="/wiki/User:Maidodo" title="User:Maidodo">Maidodo</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Maidodo" title="User talk:Maidodo">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Maidodo-20240907031700-Urszag-20240907005700" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">03:17, 7 September 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-363" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd> <dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:Eirikr" title="User:Eirikr">Eirikr</a> @<a href="/wiki/User:Theknightwho" title="User:Theknightwho">Theknightwho</a> @<a href="/wiki/User:Urszag" title="User:Urszag">Urszag</a></dd> <dd>Since this is a different topic (not about rōmaji), I have started a new discussion here, if you are interested.</dd> <dd><a href="/wiki/Template_talk:ja-pron#Confirmation_of_Convention_for_Indicating_Long_Vowels_in_Pronunciation_Sections_Using_This_Template_(in_kana)" title="Template talk:ja-pron">Template talk:ja-pron#Confirmation of Convention for Indicating Long Vowels in Pronunciation Sections Using This Template (in kana)</a> <a href="/wiki/User:Maidodo" title="User:Maidodo">Maidodo</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Maidodo" title="User talk:Maidodo">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Maidodo-20240907082100-Urszag-20240907005700" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">08:21, 7 September 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-364" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:Maidodo" title="User:Maidodo">Maidodo</a> @<a href="/wiki/User:Urszag" title="User:Urszag">Urszag</a> My preference would be for us to use ー for long vowels, and to use a new kana for instances where the vowel is reiterated, like <a href="/wiki/%E3%81%BB%E3%81%AE%E3%81%8A#Japanese" title="ほのお">ほのお</a> (honoo). This would only be for pronunciation sections and categories that give kana readings, but it would help keep things separate in cases where the orthography is ambiguous. The one exception is that while おう and えい can be normalised to おー and えー in pronunciation sections, that wouldn't be helpful (or correct) in kana reading categories so those should remain as-is. <a href="/wiki/User:Theknightwho" title="User:Theknightwho">Theknightwho</a> (<a class="mw-selflink selflink">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Theknightwho-20240907143200-Maidodo-20240907082100" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">14:32, 7 September 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-365" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:Theknightwho" title="User:Theknightwho">Theknightwho</a> ― Sorry if I am not correctly comprehending your point. It seems that the conversation is now about the kana-represented pronunciation (these notations remain designed /phonologically/ and not [phonetically]; for example ん will be always noted as ン).</dd> <dd>Is there a structural difference between {お列＋お} and {え列＋い}? In my view, there isn't. The former is [オ列ー], the latter is [エ列ー], with exceptions (ほのお、えい(the fish)). I suppose that such exceptions can be handled by inserting a period in the code before the second kana.</dd> <dd>I wonder if making a synthetic document summarizing all cases and covering both kana-represented pronunciation and rōmaji could be helpful. If yes, I can work on it. <a href="/wiki/User:Maidodo" title="User:Maidodo">Maidodo</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Maidodo" title="User talk:Maidodo">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Maidodo-20240907234400-Theknightwho-20240907143200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:44, 7 September 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-366" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:Maidodo" title="User:Maidodo">Maidodo</a>: The conversation so far has been about the kana pronunciation section. In addition to this, Theknightwho wanted to discuss what spellings to use in the title of categories such as <a href="/wiki/Category:Japanese_kanji_with_kun_reading_%E3%81%BB%E3%81%AE%E3%81%8A" title="Category:Japanese kanji with kun reading ほのお">Category:Japanese kanji with kun reading ほのお</a>, <a href="/wiki/Category:Japanese_kanji_with_on_reading_%E3%81%8A%E3%81%86" title="Category:Japanese kanji with on reading おう">Category:Japanese kanji with on reading おう</a>, etc.--<a href="/wiki/User:Urszag" title="User:Urszag">Urszag</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Urszag" title="User talk:Urszag">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Urszag-20240908001100-Maidodo-20240907234400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:11, 8 September 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-367" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:Eirikr" title="User:Eirikr">Eirikr</a> @<a href="/wiki/User:Urszag" title="User:Urszag">Urszag</a> my thanks! Does it mean that ほのお would be still automatically transcripted as honō on this categorie page? I think I understand the technical difficulty. <a href="/wiki/User:Maidodo" title="User:Maidodo">Maidodo</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Maidodo" title="User talk:Maidodo">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Maidodo-20240908013100-Urszag-20240908001100" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:31, 8 September 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-368" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd> <dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:Theknightwho" title="User:Theknightwho">Theknightwho</a>, I feel like something might be getting off track?</dd> <dd>You'd stated (emphasis mine):</dd> <dd><blockquote style="border:1px solid gray;padding:4px">My preference would be for us to use ー for long vowels, and to use a new kana for instances where the vowel is reiterated, like ほのお (honoo). This would only be for pronunciation sections and categories that give kana readings, [...]</blockquote></dd> <dd>"Reading" in Japanese lexicography has always and only (to my knowledge) been the kana rendering of the term. This is relevant for collation, for kana spelling, and for knowing how to pronounce kanji, with certain caveats as mentioned to some extent in this thread. Our categories for Japanese terms that use the term "read" or "reading", such as <a href="/wiki/Category:Japanese_terms_spelled_with_%E7%B4%97_read_as_%E3%81%95" title="Category:Japanese terms spelled with 紗 read as さ">Category:Japanese terms spelled with 紗 read as さ</a> or <a href="/wiki/Category:Japanese_terms_spelled_with_%E5%84%B2_read_as_%E3%82%82%E3%81%86" title="Category:Japanese terms spelled with 儲 read as もう">Category:Japanese terms spelled with 儲 read as もう</a>, have been organized based on this same principle, using the standard kana orthography for the term.</dd> <dd>If I understand you correctly, you appear to be proposing that we change this so that our categories would instead use a pronunciation-based kana rendering with the nobashi ("lengthener" or the ー bar) for long vowels.</dd> <dd>This would represent a major change from how we have operated for years, and it would also be a significant departure from how other resources organize their information. Consequently, I cannot support using the nobashi for the "reading" categories. That said, I have zero objection to using the nobashi for pronunciation sections. ‑‑ <a href="/wiki/User:Eirikr" title="User:Eirikr">Eiríkr Útlendi</a> │<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Eirikr" title="User talk:Eirikr">Tala við mig</a> <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Eirikr-20240909170200-Theknightwho-20240907143200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:02, 9 September 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-369" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd> <dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:Maidodo" title="User:Maidodo">Maidodo</a>, @<a href="/wiki/User:Eirikr" title="User:Eirikr">Eirikr</a>, @<a href="/wiki/User:Urszag" title="User:Urszag">Urszag</a>, @<a href="/wiki/User:Theknightwho" title="User:Theknightwho">Theknightwho</a>: I didn't read the whole thread, but the reason why 炎 must be transliterated as hónoo and not <del>hónō</del> is very simple: the syllabic breakdown of that word is /ho.no.o/ and not /ho.noo/. This is clear from the different phonetic behaviour when compared with other words ending in -ō (i.e. /-oo/): <ol><li>炎 (hónoo) + 会 (-kai) = 炎会 (honoókai) > /ho.no.ó.kai/</li> <li>運動 (undō) + 会 (-kai) = 運動会 (undôkai) > /uɴ.dóo.kai/</li></ol></dd> <dd>The suffix 会 (-́kai) forces an accent in the preceding syllable. If 炎 (hónoo) was to be analysed as /hó.noo/, and therefore transliterated hónō, we would expect it to behave like 運動 (undō), becoming 炎会 (honôkai) (/ho.nóo.kai/, but that's not the case. Instead we have 炎会 (honoókai) > /ho.no.ó.kai/, from which we clearly see that the final /o/ is a syllable on its own. — <a href="/wiki/User:Sartma" title="User:Sartma">Sartma</a> 【<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Sartma" title="User talk:Sartma">𒁾𒁉</a> ● <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Sartma" title="Special:Contributions/Sartma">𒊭 𒌑𒊑𒀉𒁲</a>】 <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Sartma-20240921161700-Maidodo-20240824011000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:17, 21 September 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-370" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:Sartma" title="User:Sartma">Sartma</a>: That's good evidence, although in principle, the syllabification of a suffixed form isn't necessarily guaranteed to be identical to that of the unsuffixed form. Even if the suffixed form indicates the root contains something underlying different from a long vowel, it would be possible for this distinction to be phonetically neutralized in the base word: that it isn't is an empirical matter. (I notice that the <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://books.google.com/books?id=p7tIAQAAMAAJ&pg=PA177">5th edition of Hepburn's dictionary</a> transcribes the word as honō, although whether this reflects a change over time in the pronunciation, a change in arbitrary transcription conventions, or just an error is something I am not sure of.)--<a href="/wiki/User:Urszag" title="User:Urszag">Urszag</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Urszag" title="User talk:Urszag">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Urszag-20240922025800-Sartma-20240921161700" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:58, 22 September 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-371" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>Hi @<a href="/wiki/User:Urszag" title="User:Urszag">Urszag</a>. Sorry, I'm not sure I follow your argument. Can you give some examples of what you mean? As for the Hepburn's dictionary: it was printed 130 years ago, I wouldn't quote it on anything related to phonetics... — <a href="/wiki/User:Sartma" title="User:Sartma">Sartma</a> 【<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Sartma" title="User talk:Sartma">𒁾𒁉</a> ● <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Sartma" title="Special:Contributions/Sartma">𒊭 𒌑𒊑𒀉𒁲</a>】 <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Sartma-20240922112200-Urszag-20240922025800" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">11:22, 22 September 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-372" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="ζώω" data-mw-thread-id="h-ζώω-20240829183600">ζώω</h2>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Theknightwho&action=edit&section=74" title="Edit section: ζώω">edit</a>]<div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata">Latest comment: <a href="#c-Theknightwho-20240829183600-ζώω">2 months ago</a>1 comment1 person in discussion</div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> Hi -- I undid your revert, started a discussion on the talk page, and added a reference. -Ben <dl><dd>If you're disputing the existence of Ancient Greek <a href="/wiki/%CE%B6%CE%AC%CF%89#Ancient_Greek" title="ζάω">ζάω</a> (záō), the way to do that is not by claiming it's fake at the page for <a href="/wiki/%CE%B6%CF%8E%CF%89#Ancient_Greek" title="ζώω">ζώω</a> (zṓō), because all you've done then is make the two entries contradict each other. <a href="/wiki/User:Theknightwho" title="User:Theknightwho">Theknightwho</a> (<a class="mw-selflink selflink">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Theknightwho-20240829183600-ζώω" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:36, 29 August 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-373" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id=""not_comparable"" data-mw-thread-id="h-"not_comparable"-20240904001300">"not comparable"</h2>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Theknightwho&action=edit&section=75" title="Edit section: "not comparable"">edit</a>]<div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata">Latest comment: <a href="#c-Theknightwho-20240904010200-Kwamikagami-20240904004700">2 months ago</a>8 comments2 people in discussion</div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> For rare adjectives, shouldn't we remain agnostic rather than positively claiming they're not comparable? There's no reason something like "more Iapetian" couldn't exist, and if it could, then it's comparable. <a href="/wiki/User:Kwamikagami" title="User:Kwamikagami">kwami</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Kwamikagami" title="User talk:Kwamikagami">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Kwamikagami-20240904001300-"not_comparable"" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:13, 4 September 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-374" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:Kwamikagami" title="User:Kwamikagami">Kwamikagami</a> Even theoretically, how could <a href="/wiki/Iapetian#English" title="Iapetian">Iapetian</a> be used comparatively given the current meaning? <a href="/wiki/User:Theknightwho" title="User:Theknightwho">Theknightwho</a> (<a class="mw-selflink selflink">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Theknightwho-20240904001500-Kwamikagami-20240904001300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:15, 4 September 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-375" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>A more Iapetian albedo contrast, for the moon; for the titan, a greater degree of any quality associated with the titan. Not that anyone has necessarily used a comparative form in the entire history of English, but there's no reason they couldn't in a context they thought made sense. Certainly in poetry it wouldn't even need to make literal sense. "Not comparable" suggests the comparative form is ungrammatical, not unattested. I wouldn't want to list a comparative form either, if we can't attest to it, but we could simply leave it out. <a href="/wiki/User:Kwamikagami" title="User:Kwamikagami">kwami</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Kwamikagami" title="User talk:Kwamikagami">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Kwamikagami-20240904003200-Theknightwho-20240904001500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:32, 4 September 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-376" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd> <dd>I found "Japetian" as an old synonym for Indo-European, with "Japetian type" of grammatical structure. That might also plausibly be used in the comparative. Though it's a different etymology, from Japhet rather than Iapetus. <a href="/wiki/User:Kwamikagami" title="User:Kwamikagami">kwami</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Kwamikagami" title="User talk:Kwamikagami">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Kwamikagami-20240904003500-Theknightwho-20240904001500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:35, 4 September 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-377" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>That took me to <a href="/wiki/Japhetic" title="Japhetic">Japhetic</a>, which we also claimed was not comparable. But GBooks has several instances of "more Japhetic" and possibly one of "most" (there's no preview on that one). <a href="/wiki/User:Kwamikagami" title="User:Kwamikagami">kwami</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Kwamikagami" title="User talk:Kwamikagami">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Kwamikagami-20240904004300-Kwamikagami-20240904003500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:43, 4 September 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-378" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd> <dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:Kwamikagami" title="User:Kwamikagami">Kwamikagami</a> The issue is that you can do that for (almost) all incomparable adjectives. To be honest, this is something we should probably raise at the <a href="/wiki/Wiktionary:BP" class="mw-redirect" title="Wiktionary:BP">WT:BP</a>, because I'm not fully convinced that comparability is something we should be showing in the headword line unless there are inflected forms. <a href="/wiki/User:Theknightwho" title="User:Theknightwho">Theknightwho</a> (<a class="mw-selflink selflink">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Theknightwho-20240904004300-Kwamikagami-20240904003500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:43, 4 September 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-379" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>I agree with you there. There might be exceptions where the expected inflected forms are not possible, but we could mention that in usage notes. E.g. in my dialect, *funner and *funnest are ungrammatical. I don't know if there might be words that are like that across most English varieties, but if so there can't be very many. <a href="/wiki/User:Kwamikagami" title="User:Kwamikagami">kwami</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Kwamikagami" title="User talk:Kwamikagami">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Kwamikagami-20240904004700-Theknightwho-20240904004300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:47, 4 September 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-380" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:Kwamikagami" title="User:Kwamikagami">Kwamikagami</a> That's a good point. Whatever we decide, we definitely need to do something about incomparable adjectives. There are situations where we decide to treat certain things as quirks of the language rather than a true quality of the term (e.g. any uncountable noun can be used countably when comparing types of that thing, but that doesn't stop them being uncountable), so it might be that we just need to hash out exactly what we mean by "not comparable". <a href="/wiki/User:Theknightwho" title="User:Theknightwho">Theknightwho</a> (<a class="mw-selflink selflink">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Theknightwho-20240904010200-Kwamikagami-20240904004700" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:02, 4 September 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-381" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="CAT:E_again" data-mw-thread-id="h-CAT:E_again-20240906193200"><a href="/wiki/Category:E" class="mw-redirect" title="Category:E">CAT:E</a> again</h2>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Theknightwho&action=edit&section=76" title="Edit section: CAT:E again">edit</a>]<div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata">Latest comment: <a href="#c-Theknightwho-20240907135500-Benwing2-20240907032400">2 months ago</a>4 comments3 people in discussion</div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> There are 2 entries (<a href="/wiki/k%C3%B6lsch" title="kölsch">kölsch</a> and <a href="/wiki/natt" title="natt">natt</a>) due to <a href="/wiki/Module:li-headword-eup" title="Module:li-headword-eup">Module:li-headword-eup</a> passing a parameter in a way that <a href="/wiki/Module:parameters" title="Module:parameters">Module:parameters</a> no longer accepts, and a number of Devanagari entries due to <a href="/wiki/Module:new-IPA" title="Module:new-IPA">Module:new-IPA</a> using a character that <a href="/wiki/Module:IPA" title="Module:IPA">Module:IPA</a> no longer accepts. Then there are the Wiktionary-space instances of wikilinks that <a href="/wiki/Module:IPA" title="Module:IPA">Module:IPA</a> no longer accepts. This has been obscured by what was apparently a widely transcluded error corrected after about .0053 <a href="/wiki/ohnosecond" title="ohnosecond">ohnoseconds</a>. That flooded the category, which was easily cleared using the API Sandbox purge method only to be flooded again. There are also a couple (<a href="/wiki/Bie%C5%82aru%C5%9B" title="Biełaruś">Biełaruś</a> and <a href="/wiki/%C5%9Bviat%C5%82o" title="śviatło">śviatło</a>) that seem to be the results of @<a href="/wiki/User:Benwing2" title="User:Benwing2">Benwing2</a> completely reworking inflection modules just before going on vacation. <a href="/wiki/User:Chuck_Entz" title="User:Chuck Entz">Chuck Entz</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Chuck_Entz" title="User talk:Chuck Entz">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Chuck_Entz-20240906193200-CAT:E_again" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:32, 6 September 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-382" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>Hi Chuck. I know about those two Belarusian entries; my apologies that I haven't fixed them sooner. <a href="/wiki/User:Benwing2" title="User:Benwing2">Benwing2</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Benwing2" title="User talk:Benwing2">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Benwing2-20240906194900-Chuck_Entz-20240906193200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:49, 6 September 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-383" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:Chuck_Entz" title="User:Chuck Entz">Chuck Entz</a> TKW and I have resolved most of these issues. The ones remaining are the two Belarusian terms and a couple of Wiktionary-space pages. <a href="/wiki/User:Benwing2" title="User:Benwing2">Benwing2</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Benwing2" title="User talk:Benwing2">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Benwing2-20240907032400-Benwing2-20240906194900" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">03:24, 7 September 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-384" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:Benwing2" title="User:Benwing2">Benwing2</a> @<a href="/wiki/User:Chuck_Entz" title="User:Chuck Entz">Chuck Entz</a> I'll deal with the Wiktionary-space ones. It because I disallowed links in IPA inputs, because they were overcomplicating the code and nothing was using them in mainspace. <a href="/wiki/User:Theknightwho" title="User:Theknightwho">Theknightwho</a> (<a class="mw-selflink selflink">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Theknightwho-20240907135500-Benwing2-20240907032400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">13:55, 7 September 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-385" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="warnings" data-mw-thread-id="h-warnings-20240913050200">warnings</h2>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Theknightwho&action=edit&section=77" title="Edit section: warnings">edit</a>]<div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata">Latest comment: <a href="#c-Kwamikagami-20240913221900-Theknightwho-20240913220600">2 months ago</a>26 comments3 people in discussion</div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> There are so many warnings, most of them trivial and inconsistent and often contradicted by Wiktionary:Entry layout, that they just become a pink blur. Like leaving or not leaving a blank line before the first header - how is anyone supposed to know when to and when not to? If I add a blank line, I get a warning not to add it, and if I remove it, I get a warning to add it. If I copy and paste the formatting from an article, I'll get masses of warning even though there are none when I edit the original. As for manually adding a generic boilerplate, shouldn't that be automated? Certainly the "cleanup" can be automated. <a href="/wiki/User:Kwamikagami" title="User:Kwamikagami">kwami</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Kwamikagami" title="User talk:Kwamikagami">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Kwamikagami-20240913050200-warnings" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">05:02, 13 September 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-386" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:Kwamikagami" title="User:Kwamikagami">Kwamikagami</a> You are literally the only long-term user who struggles with this. Enough with the excuses. Adding <code style="white-space:pre-wrap">{{<a href="/wiki/Template:auto_cat#top" title="Template:auto cat">auto cat</a>}}</code> is something newbies learn within a month (tops), yet somehow these basic skills manage to still evade you. The fact the layout confuses you is honestly baffling - you trigger those edit filters 10 times more than any other user, when the layout is not complicated, so you obviously just cannot be bothered to learn it. It says a lot about how sloppy your editing is, quite frankly. <a href="/wiki/User:Theknightwho" title="User:Theknightwho">Theknightwho</a> (<a class="mw-selflink selflink">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Theknightwho-20240913050700-Kwamikagami-20240913050200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">05:07, 13 September 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-387" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>It's new to me. It wasn't used on the categories I learned on. It's easier than choosing them manually, actually, and I'll try to remember to it. I don't mind that. What's annoying are your constant passive-aggressive complains when simple corrections would be easier all around, e.g. "use {auto cat} rather than manual cats" or some such. <a href="/wiki/User:Kwamikagami" title="User:Kwamikagami">kwami</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Kwamikagami" title="User talk:Kwamikagami">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Kwamikagami-20240913051500-Theknightwho-20240913050700" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">05:15, 13 September 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-388" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:Kwamikagami" title="User:Kwamikagami">Kwamikagami</a> I'm not being passive-aggressive; I'm actively telling you I am annoyed. I'm not expecting perfection, but I'd be a lot less annoyed if you didn't argue about it every time. <a href="/wiki/User:Theknightwho" title="User:Theknightwho">Theknightwho</a> (<a class="mw-selflink selflink">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Theknightwho-20240913052000-Kwamikagami-20240913051500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">05:20, 13 September 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-389" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>Whinging, then. If I'm doing something wrong, just tell me what is wrong. I'm perfectly happy to follow a simple, consistent instruction like "use {auto cat} rather than adding categories manually."</dd> <dd>As for the layout confusing me, yes, if I get an auto-warning for leaving a blank line, so I remove it and then get a warning for not leaving a blank line, I give up. <a href="/wiki/User:Kwamikagami" title="User:Kwamikagami">kwami</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Kwamikagami" title="User talk:Kwamikagami">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Kwamikagami-20240913054400-Theknightwho-20240913052000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">05:44, 13 September 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-390" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:Kwamikagami" title="User:Kwamikagami">Kwamikagami</a> I tried that several times, and it made absolutely no difference. This is precisely the kind of attitude I was referring to: there's always an excuse, it's always someone else's fault, and the only common theme is that you're never to blame. It's predictable and boring. <a href="/wiki/User:Theknightwho" title="User:Theknightwho">Theknightwho</a> (<a class="mw-selflink selflink">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Theknightwho-20240913060600-Kwamikagami-20240913054400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">06:06, 13 September 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-391" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>I don't recall you ever telling me about this before. If you have, my bad. A reminder is now on my user page.</dd> <dd>I'm often to blame. I'm often wrong. I just respond better if people correct me with a simple correction rather than pinging me with (what you say is not) passive-aggressive complaints of how I'm forcing them to do something, without ever telling me how I can do it myself -- e.g. you still haven't replied below on where I can find this list I've generated, so I can take responsibility for it. Complain that I'm making you do something, but don't provide me with the details so I can do it myself -- that's why I called it "passive-agressive". <a href="/wiki/User:Kwamikagami" title="User:Kwamikagami">kwami</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Kwamikagami" title="User talk:Kwamikagami">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Kwamikagami-20240913061900-Theknightwho-20240913060600" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">06:19, 13 September 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-392" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:Kwamikagami" title="User:Kwamikagami">Kwamikagami</a> I never said there was a list of issues you've caused (something you made up out of nowhere) - I said that you need to stop forcing the rest of us to clear up after you, because I have (repeatedly) found myself having to clear up large numbers of issues caused by you; something other people have pointed out as well, which is why you received a long block not that long ago. <a href="/wiki/User:Theknightwho" title="User:Theknightwho">Theknightwho</a> (<a class="mw-selflink selflink">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Theknightwho-20240913062500-Kwamikagami-20240913061900" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">06:25, 13 September 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-393" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>An assumption, based on the last time that you complained I was forcing you to do things but wouldn't tell me how to fix it myself. That time I found the list on my own and went through and cleaned up my mess. This time you said I "trigger those edit filters 10 times more than any other user". I assume that means there's a list somewhere to tell you that; otherwise I don't know how you could possibly tell. <a href="/wiki/User:Kwamikagami" title="User:Kwamikagami">kwami</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Kwamikagami" title="User talk:Kwamikagami">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Kwamikagami-20240913063600-Theknightwho-20240913062500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">06:36, 13 September 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-394" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:Kwamikagami" title="User:Kwamikagami">Kwamikagami</a> All edit filters log hits. The publicly available logs are here: <a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Special:AbuseLog">[16]</a>. <a href="/wiki/User:Theknightwho" title="User:Theknightwho">Theknightwho</a> (<a class="mw-selflink selflink">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Theknightwho-20240913153500-Kwamikagami-20240913063600" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:35, 13 September 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-395" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>Thank you. I'll see what I can clean up. <a href="/wiki/User:Kwamikagami" title="User:Kwamikagami">kwami</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Kwamikagami" title="User talk:Kwamikagami">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Kwamikagami-20240913181900-Theknightwho-20240913153500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:19, 13 September 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-396" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd> <dd>Weird. Found a series of errors to correct, but they do not exist in the edit history of the article. So, if I get a warning that e.g. I misspelled a header, it generates an error even if I fix the error before I save? The way I was adding refs, I was using the warning to provide me with the text to post on the page as the quickest way to do that. <a href="/wiki/User:Kwamikagami" title="User:Kwamikagami">kwami</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Kwamikagami" title="User talk:Kwamikagami">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Kwamikagami-20240913183700-Theknightwho-20240913153500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:37, 13 September 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-397" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:Kwamikagami" title="User:Kwamikagami">Kwamikagami</a> Oversimplifying things, there are three "levels" of abuse filter: level 1 just tags the edit in the edit summary (e.g. "new-L2"), and level 3 simply disallows the edit altogether (e.g. trying to add a raw replacement character �). Level 2 prevents the edit and issues a warning the first time the user presses save, but will allow the edit to go through if they press save again. That's the setting we use for the <a href="/wiki/Wiktionary:NORM" class="mw-redirect" title="Wiktionary:NORM">WT:NORM</a> filters. The first and second save attempts both get recorded in the logs, but the first will say "Actions taken: Warn", and the second "Actions taken: None". The ones that need fixing will be the second kind. <a href="/wiki/User:Theknightwho" title="User:Theknightwho">Theknightwho</a> (<a class="mw-selflink selflink">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Theknightwho-20240913192100-Kwamikagami-20240913183700" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:21, 13 September 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-398" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd> <dd>Thanks. I assume there's a way to filter the results for quicker review, but I'll leave that for another day.</dd> <dd>I'm going down a rabbit hole with the errors caused by adding {auto cat}. I would think that phonetic symbols (IPA, UPA, NAPA etc.) would be under the 'communication' topic, but I think I should leave that to someone who knows what they're doing. <a href="/wiki/User:Kwamikagami" title="User:Kwamikagami">kwami</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Kwamikagami" title="User talk:Kwamikagami">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Kwamikagami-20240913192600-Kwamikagami-20240913183700" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:26, 13 September 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-399" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>It's hard for me to be sure, since I see all the options that ordinary users can't, but I believe you should have a link from your contributions page for just your abuse-log hits. <a href="/wiki/User:Chuck_Entz" title="User:Chuck Entz">Chuck Entz</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Chuck_Entz" title="User talk:Chuck Entz">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Chuck_Entz-20240913194500-Kwamikagami-20240913192600" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:45, 13 September 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>Yes, that works, thanks. From there it's easy to filter out e.g. 'new/fewer L2s' by eye, since that's 90% them. <a href="/wiki/User:Kwamikagami" title="User:Kwamikagami">kwami</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Kwamikagami" title="User talk:Kwamikagami">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Kwamikagami-20240913195300-Chuck_Entz-20240913194500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:53, 13 September 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-401" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd></dl></dd> <dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:Kwamikagami" title="User:Kwamikagami">Kwamikagami</a> So the category tree is divided into two parts, which are (for reasons of convention) distinguished by their name formats: "NAME X" categories are sets of terms which are strictly described by the name of the category (e.g. <a href="/wiki/Category:English_adjectives" title="Category:English adjectives">Category:English adjectives</a> contains all adjectives in English), whereas "CODE:X" categories are any terms that relate to that particular topic (e.g. <a href="/wiki/Category:en:Adjectives" title="Category:en:Adjectives">Category:en:Adjectives</a> contains English terms relating to adjectives, which don't have to be adjectives themselves - in fact, they're mostly types of adjective, i.e. nouns). This means <a href="/wiki/Category:IPA_symbols" title="Category:IPA symbols">Category:IPA symbols</a>, <a href="/wiki/Category:UPA_symbols" title="Category:UPA symbols">Category:UPA symbols</a> etc. would best fit under <a href="/wiki/Category:Translingual_symbols" title="Category:Translingual symbols">Category:Translingual symbols</a>, in my view, since their members are literal symbols. <a href="/wiki/User:Theknightwho" title="User:Theknightwho">Theknightwho</a> (<a class="mw-selflink selflink">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Theknightwho-20240913195600-Kwamikagami-20240913192600" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:56, 13 September 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-402" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>That's the category I added to them manually, but in order for {auto cat} not to generate an error, I need to add them, with that category, under one of the few dozen general topics in the tree. I assume that would be 'communication'? I didn't want to do that without being sure. <a href="/wiki/User:Kwamikagami" title="User:Kwamikagami">kwami</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Kwamikagami" title="User talk:Kwamikagami">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Kwamikagami-20240913200200-Theknightwho-20240913195600" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:02, 13 September 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-403" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:Kwamikagami" title="User:Kwamikagami">Kwamikagami</a> What I mean is that <a href="/wiki/Category:IPA_symbols" title="Category:IPA symbols">Category:IPA symbols</a>, <a href="/wiki/Category:UPA_symbols" title="Category:UPA symbols">Category:UPA symbols</a> etc. should be categorised in <a href="/wiki/Category:Translingual_symbols" title="Category:Translingual symbols">Category:Translingual symbols</a>. I can change the relevant submodule of <a href="/wiki/Module:category_tree" title="Module:category tree">Module:category tree</a> to facilitate that. <a href="/wiki/User:Theknightwho" title="User:Theknightwho">Theknightwho</a> (<a class="mw-selflink selflink">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Theknightwho-20240913201700-Kwamikagami-20240913200200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:17, 13 September 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-404" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>Okay. I'll remove the manual category. <a href="/wiki/User:Kwamikagami" title="User:Kwamikagami">kwami</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Kwamikagami" title="User talk:Kwamikagami">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Kwamikagami-20240913202100-Theknightwho-20240913201700" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:21, 13 September 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-405" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd> <dd>It's weird that some pages, such as <a href="/wiki/%E1%B4%AB" title="ᴫ">ᴫ</a>, don't care if there's a blank line before the first header. <a href="/wiki/User:Kwamikagami" title="User:Kwamikagami">kwami</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Kwamikagami" title="User talk:Kwamikagami">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Kwamikagami-20240913203800-Theknightwho-20240913201700" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:38, 13 September 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-406" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:Kwamikagami" title="User:Kwamikagami">Kwamikagami</a> What do you mean? <a href="/wiki/User:Theknightwho" title="User:Theknightwho">Theknightwho</a> (<a class="mw-selflink selflink">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Theknightwho-20240913205900-Kwamikagami-20240913203800" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:59, 13 September 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-407" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>It's had a blank line since <a class="external text" href="https://en.wiktionary.org/w/index.php?title=%E1%B4%AB&diff=next&oldid=72989823">this edit</a> in May, until I removed it today, and AFAICT has never generated a warning. I've noticed that elsewhere, e.g. when copying and pasting the structure/outline, one article will be fine, then the next will generate an error. <a href="/wiki/User:Kwamikagami" title="User:Kwamikagami">kwami</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Kwamikagami" title="User talk:Kwamikagami">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Kwamikagami-20240913214000-Theknightwho-20240913205900" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:40, 13 September 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-408" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:Kwamikagami" title="User:Kwamikagami">Kwamikagami</a> I significantly revamped that edit filter towards the end of 2023 - the old version would miss things like this. Checking that edit against the filter's regex using <a rel="nofollow" class="external free" href="https://regex101.com/">https://regex101.com/</a>, the current version would have caught it. The <a href="/wiki/Wiktionary:NORM" class="mw-redirect" title="Wiktionary:NORM">WT:NORM</a> filters also only trigger if it's a new issue (i.e. once the blank line is already there, it won't issue a new warning every time the page is edited). <a href="/wiki/User:Theknightwho" title="User:Theknightwho">Theknightwho</a> (<a class="mw-selflink selflink">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Theknightwho-20240913220600-Kwamikagami-20240913214000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:06, 13 September 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-409" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>Okay. It'll take me some time to get used to which errors get generated every time and which don't, though I can always check my abuse filter. <a href="/wiki/User:Kwamikagami" title="User:Kwamikagami">kwami</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Kwamikagami" title="User talk:Kwamikagami">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Kwamikagami-20240913221900-Theknightwho-20240913220600" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:19, 13 September 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-410" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd> <dd>And if you point me to a cleanup list that I generated, I can clean it up. <a href="/wiki/User:Kwamikagami" title="User:Kwamikagami">kwami</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Kwamikagami" title="User talk:Kwamikagami">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Kwamikagami-20240913051800-Theknightwho-20240913050700" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">05:18, 13 September 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-411" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Proposal_for_Module:Unicode_data" data-mw-thread-id="h-Proposal_for_Module:Unicode_data-20240913161000">Proposal for <a href="/wiki/Module:Unicode_data" title="Module:Unicode data">Module:Unicode data</a></h2>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Theknightwho&action=edit&section=78" title="Edit section: Proposal for Module:Unicode data">edit</a>]<div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata">Latest comment: <a href="#c-Theknightwho-20240913162200-Ekirahardian-20240913161000">2 months ago</a>2 comments2 people in discussion</div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> Hi, I see you're updating <a href="/wiki/Appendix:Unicode" title="Appendix:Unicode">Appendix:Unicode</a>, would you mind if I ask you to add new patterns for <a href="/wiki/Appendix:Unicode/Variation_Selectors" title="Appendix:Unicode/Variation Selectors">Appendix:Unicode/Variation_Selectors</a> and <a href="/wiki/Appendix:Unicode/Egyptian_Hieroglyphs_Extended-A" title="Appendix:Unicode/Egyptian Hieroglyphs Extended-A">Appendix:Unicode/Egyptian_Hieroglyphs_Extended-A</a> at <a href="/wiki/Module:Unicode_data" title="Module:Unicode data">Module:Unicode data</a>? Specifically something like this: <ul><li><a href="https://id.wiktionary.org/wiki/Special:diff/1068018/1068061" class="extiw" title="id:Special:diff/1068018/1068061">Egyptian Hieroglyphs Extended-A</a></li> <li><a href="https://id.wiktionary.org/wiki/Special:diff/1042169/1042580" class="extiw" title="id:Special:diff/1042169/1042580">Variation Selectors</a></li></ul> The purpose is so the names will be automatically generated and don't need to be manually defined at Module:Unicode_data/names. I have tested and added the patterns for Indonesian Wiktionary's version of the appendix and it's proven to work. Thank you! <a href="/wiki/User:Ekirahardian" title="User:Ekirahardian">Ekirahardian</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Ekirahardian" title="User talk:Ekirahardian">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Ekirahardian-20240913161000-Proposal_for_Module:Unicode_data" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:10, 13 September 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-412" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:Ekirahardian" title="User:Ekirahardian">Ekirahardian</a> Sure - that's fine, since they're procedurally generated. <a href="/wiki/User:Theknightwho" title="User:Theknightwho">Theknightwho</a> (<a class="mw-selflink selflink">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Theknightwho-20240913162200-Ekirahardian-20240913161000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:22, 13 September 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-413" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id=""丟那媽"_is_a_euphemistic_misspelling?" data-mw-thread-id="h-"丟那媽"_is_a_euphemistic_misspelling?-20240918231200">"丟那媽" is a euphemistic misspelling?</h2>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Theknightwho&action=edit&section=79" title="Edit section: "丟那媽" is a euphemistic misspelling?">edit</a>]<div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata">Latest comment: <a href="#c-Dengzeren08-20240928035200-Theknightwho-20240918232300">1 month ago</a>3 comments2 people in discussion</div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> You added '丟那媽" to the compounds section on the page for 媽. I wanted to ask if you knew where this phrase came from so that I could create a page for it calling it a euphemistic misspelling. But want I want to know is if you know it's a common misspelling or a common euphemism that needs its own entry. <a href="/wiki/User:Dengzeren08" title="User:Dengzeren08">Dengzeren08</a> (<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Dengzeren08&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User talk:Dengzeren08 (page does not exist)">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Dengzeren08-20240918231200-"丟那媽"_is_a_euphemistic_misspelling?" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:12, 18 September 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-414" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:Dengzeren08" title="User:Dengzeren08">Dengzeren08</a> It comes from <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://www.zdic.net/hant/%E4%B8%9F%E9%82%A3%E5%AA%BD">here</a>. <a href="/wiki/User:Theknightwho" title="User:Theknightwho">Theknightwho</a> (<a class="mw-selflink selflink">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Theknightwho-20240918232300-Dengzeren08-20240918231200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:23, 18 September 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-415" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>I made the page for <a href="/wiki/%E4%B8%9F%E9%82%A3%E5%AA%BD" title="丟那媽">丟那媽</a>, Let me know if you see any flaws <a href="/wiki/User:Dengzeren08" title="User:Dengzeren08">Dengzeren08</a> (<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Dengzeren08&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User talk:Dengzeren08 (page does not exist)">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Dengzeren08-20240928035200-Theknightwho-20240918232300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">03:52, 28 September 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-416" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id=""Japanese_terms_spelled_with"_Category" data-mw-thread-id="h-"Japanese_terms_spelled_with"_Category-20240926031700">"Japanese terms spelled with" Category</h2>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Theknightwho&action=edit&section=80" title="Edit section: "Japanese terms spelled with" Category">edit</a>]<div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata">Latest comment: <a href="#c-Theknightwho-20240926115300-YeBoy371-20240926031700">2 months ago</a>2 comments2 people in discussion</div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <ul><li><a href="/wiki/Category:Japanese_terms_spelled_with_%E5%88%8E_read_as_%E3%81%B5%E3%82%93" title="Category:Japanese terms spelled with 刎 read as ふん">Category:Japanese terms spelled with 刎 read as ふん</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Category:Japanese_terms_spelled_with_%E5%8C%A1_read_as_%E3%81%BE%E3%81%95" title="Category:Japanese terms spelled with 匡 read as まさ">Category:Japanese terms spelled with 匡 read as まさ</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Category:Japanese_terms_spelled_with_%E9%A0%81_read_as_%E3%81%BA%E3%83%BC%E3%81%98" title="Category:Japanese terms spelled with 頁 read as ぺーじ">Category:Japanese terms spelled with 頁 read as ぺーじ‎</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Category:Japanese_terms_spelled_with_%E9%AB%AE_read_as_%E3%81%8C" title="Category:Japanese terms spelled with 髮 read as が">Category:Japanese terms spelled with 髮 read as が</a></li></ul> Would like to know if the information written on the classification page is correct. <a href="/wiki/User:YeBoy371" title="User:YeBoy371">YeBoy371</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:YeBoy371" title="User talk:YeBoy371">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-YeBoy371-20240926031700-"Japanese_terms_spelled_with"_Category" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">03:17, 26 September 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-417" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:YeBoy371" title="User:YeBoy371">YeBoy371</a> These are added by the <code style="white-space:pre-wrap">{{<a href="/wiki/Template:ja-kanjitab#top" title="Template:ja-kanjitab">ja-kanjitab</a>}}</code> template, which is the box with kanji on the right of the entry. <a href="/wiki/User:Theknightwho" title="User:Theknightwho">Theknightwho</a> (<a class="mw-selflink selflink">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Theknightwho-20240926115300-YeBoy371-20240926031700" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">11:53, 26 September 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-418" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="cigarette" data-mw-thread-id="h-cigarette-20240927192300"><a href="/wiki/cigarette" title="cigarette">cigarette</a></h2>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Theknightwho&action=edit&section=81" title="Edit section: cigarette">edit</a>]<div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata">Latest comment: <a href="#c-Mynewfiles-20240927193500-Theknightwho-20240927193000">2 months ago</a>3 comments2 people in discussion</div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> Thank you for correcting my mistake. Are you able to combine both lines 1 and 2 of the definition so they do not appear broken? The entry currently appears this way: 1. A small cigar consisting of 2. tobacco or another substance, wrapped up in a thin roll with paper, intended for smoking. <a href="/wiki/User:Mynewfiles" class="mw-redirect" title="User:Mynewfiles">mynewfiles</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Mynewfiles" class="mw-redirect" title="User talk:Mynewfiles">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Mynewfiles-20240927192300-cigarette" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:23, 27 September 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-419" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:Mynewfiles" class="mw-redirect" title="User:Mynewfiles">Mynewfiles</a> My bad - I meant to move it to the start of the line, but accidentally copied it instead. <a href="/wiki/User:Theknightwho" title="User:Theknightwho">Theknightwho</a> (<a class="mw-selflink selflink">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Theknightwho-20240927193000-Mynewfiles-20240927192300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:30, 27 September 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-420" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>No problem, thank you kindly for your help. <a href="/wiki/User:Mynewfiles" class="mw-redirect" title="User:Mynewfiles">mynewfiles</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Mynewfiles" class="mw-redirect" title="User talk:Mynewfiles">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Mynewfiles-20240927193500-Theknightwho-20240927193000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:35, 27 September 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-421" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="transclude_bug?_(already_fixed)" data-mw-thread-id="h-transclude_bug?_(already_fixed)-20241001125500">transclude bug? (already fixed)</h2>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Theknightwho&action=edit&section=82" title="Edit section: transclude bug? (already fixed)">edit</a>]<div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata">Latest comment: <a href="#c-Sérgio_R_R_Santos-20241001141100-Theknightwho-20241001133500">1 month ago</a>3 comments2 people in discussion</div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> Well this is kinda moot, since the problem seems to have already been solved by either you or @<a href="/wiki/User:Benwing2" title="User:Benwing2">Benwing2</a>, but just to make sure it was the problem I encountered: in the page <a href="/wiki/%D7%A9%D7%A4%D7%94" title="שפה">שפה</a> there was this error in the first definition that uses the tcl template: <style data-mw-deduplicate="TemplateStyles:r76151215">.mw-parser-output .inline-quote-talk{font-family:Georgia,"DejaVu Serif",serif;color:#008560;quotes:none}.mw-parser-output .inline-quote-talk-italic{font-family:inherit;font-style:italic}.mw-parser-output .inline-quote-talk-marks{quotes:"\"""\""}</style><q class="inline-quote-talk">error(("No id specified and saw two definition lines '%s' and '%s' for source language '%s' on page <a href="/w/index.php?title=%25s&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="%s (page does not exist)">%s</a>"):format(</q> (<a href="/wiki/Module:transclude#L-319" title="Module:transclude">Module:transclude#L-319</a>); I had found an ad-hoc solution for the problem, which consisted of going to the english entry for <a href="/wiki/language" title="language">language</a> and adding a paragraph space before the second definition; that was yesterday, today i had undid (is this a propper sentence?) my edits to that page so as to go back to the hebrew page an copy the error message to show it in the Grease Pit, but all of a sudden the error message no longer appeared, so I'm assuming your or Benwing's recent edits to the module related to that problem. Just to make sure. <a href="/wiki/User:S%C3%A9rgio_R_R_Santos" title="User:Sérgio R R Santos">Sérgio R R Santos</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:S%C3%A9rgio_R_R_Santos" title="User talk:Sérgio R R Santos">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Sérgio_R_R_Santos-20241001125500-transclude_bug?_(already_fixed)" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">12:55, 1 October 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-422" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:S%C3%A9rgio_R_R_Santos" title="User:Sérgio R R Santos">Sérgio R R Santos</a> Yeah, it was fixed by Benwing2 - I was modifying it so that you can just use parameter 3 instead of <code style="white-space:pre-wrap;" class="mw-highlight mw-highlight-lang-text mw-content-ltr" dir="ltr">id=</code>, and didn't test it properly. It works, though - I just forgot to change a couple of variable names over. <a href="/wiki/User:Theknightwho" title="User:Theknightwho">Theknightwho</a> (<a class="mw-selflink selflink">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Theknightwho-20241001133500-Sérgio_R_R_Santos-20241001125500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">13:35, 1 October 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-423" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>OK, then, I just wanted to make sure since I'm not that "programming inclined", or in other words I'm an idiot when it comes to programming. I do manage to pick up some things here and there, but only basic stuff. <a href="/wiki/User:S%C3%A9rgio_R_R_Santos" title="User:Sérgio R R Santos">Sérgio R R Santos</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:S%C3%A9rgio_R_R_Santos" title="User talk:Sérgio R R Santos">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Sérgio_R_R_Santos-20241001141100-Theknightwho-20241001133500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">14:11, 1 October 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-424" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Module:languages_help" data-mw-thread-id="h-Module:languages_help-20241001214300">Module:languages help</h2>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Theknightwho&action=edit&section=83" title="Edit section: Module:languages help">edit</a>]<div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata">Latest comment: <a href="#c-আফতাবুজ্জামান-20241001214300-Module:languages_help">1 month ago</a>1 comment1 person in discussion</div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> Hi, here on enwiktionary, {{bn-noun}} gives <code>বই • (boi)</code> (see <a href="/wiki/%E0%A6%AC%E0%A6%87#Noun" title="বই">বই#Noun</a>). On bnwiktionary, we don't need the <code>translit</code> part for Bengali word (in this example, the <code>(boi)</code> part). So, i comment out <a class="external text" href="https://bn.wiktionary.org/w/index.php?title=%E0%A6%AE%E0%A6%A1%E0%A6%BF%E0%A6%89%E0%A6%B2:languages/data/2&diff=prev&oldid=306100">translit part from languages/data module</a>. But the template still says "Transliteration required". How can we remove it? (We still want "Transliteration required" for other languages but not for Bengali language.) <a href="/wiki/User:%E0%A6%86%E0%A6%AB%E0%A6%A4%E0%A6%BE%E0%A6%AC%E0%A7%81%E0%A6%9C%E0%A7%8D%E0%A6%9C%E0%A6%BE%E0%A6%AE%E0%A6%BE%E0%A6%A8" title="User:আফতাবুজ্জামান">আফতাবুজ্জামান</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:%E0%A6%86%E0%A6%AB%E0%A6%A4%E0%A6%BE%E0%A6%AC%E0%A7%81%E0%A6%9C%E0%A7%8D%E0%A6%9C%E0%A6%BE%E0%A6%AE%E0%A6%BE%E0%A6%A8" title="User talk:আফতাবুজ্জামান">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-আফতাবুজ্জামান-20241001214300-Module:languages_help" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:43, 1 October 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-425" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Category:Entries_with_incorrect_language_header_by_language_a.k.a._User:Theknightwho/sandbox17" data-mw-thread-id="h-Category:Entries_with_incorrect_language_header_by_language_a.k.a._User:Theknigh-20241017061100"><a href="/wiki/Category:Entries_with_incorrect_language_header_by_language" title="Category:Entries with incorrect language header by language">Category:Entries with incorrect language header by language</a> a.k.a. <a href="/wiki/User:Theknightwho/sandbox17" title="User:Theknightwho/sandbox17">User:Theknightwho/sandbox17</a></h2>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Theknightwho&action=edit&section=84" title="Edit section: Category:Entries with incorrect language header by language a.k.a. User:Theknightwho/sandbox17">edit</a>]<div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata">Latest comment: <a href="#c-Theknightwho-20241017104300-Chuck_Entz-20241017061100">1 month ago</a>2 comments2 people in discussion</div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> As far as I can tell, there are 182 out of the current 393 subcategories that have one or more members. Your sandbox is in 175 of those. That leaves at least 7 that have other pages in them- but which are they? You really should exclude userspace (and the Appendix namespace while you're at it). Thanks. <a href="/wiki/User:Chuck_Entz" title="User:Chuck Entz">Chuck Entz</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Chuck_Entz" title="User talk:Chuck Entz">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Chuck_Entz-20241017061100-Category:Entries_with_incorrect_language_header_by_language_a.k.a._User:Theknigh" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">06:11, 17 October 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-426" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:Chuck_Entz" title="User:Chuck Entz">Chuck Entz</a> They are excluded - the problem is that the page is pretending to be a page which it isn't (as I've been testing a major upgrade to the template parser: that's the entire content of "a" loading within the time limit). That being said, I probably shouldn't just leave it in that state when I'm not actively testing. <a href="/wiki/User:Theknightwho" title="User:Theknightwho">Theknightwho</a> (<a class="mw-selflink selflink">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Theknightwho-20241017104300-Chuck_Entz-20241017061100" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">10:43, 17 October 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-427" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id=""Broccolini"_not_derived_from_Japanese?" data-mw-thread-id="h-"Broccolini"_not_derived_from_Japanese?-20241027080300">"Broccolini" not derived from Japanese?</h2>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Theknightwho&action=edit&section=85" title="Edit section: "Broccolini" not derived from Japanese?">edit</a>]<div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata">Latest comment: <a href="#c-Theknightwho-20241028015200-Emanuele6-20241028013900">30 days ago</a>18 comments2 people in discussion</div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> In <a href="/wiki/Special:Diff/82498289" title="Special:Diff/82498289">82498289</a>, you remove ブロッコリーニ from the Etymology section claiming that "broccolini" does not derive from japanese "Not derived from Japanese", but wikipedia disagrees with you and links sources: <a class="external free" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Broccolini">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Broccolini</a> I will undo that change; if you believe that broccolini does not derive from the Japanese ブロッコリーニ please explain your reasoning. <a href="/wiki/User:Emanuele6" title="User:Emanuele6">Emanuele6</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Emanuele6" title="User talk:Emanuele6">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Emanuele6-20241027080300-"Broccolini"_not_derived_from_Japanese?" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">08:03, 27 October 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-428" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:Emanuele6" title="User:Emanuele6">Emanuele6</a> Because it was developed by a Japanese company who sold it to an American company who then marketed it as “broccolini”. I see no evidence it was called ブロッコリーニ first. <a href="/wiki/User:Theknightwho" title="User:Theknightwho">Theknightwho</a> (<a class="mw-selflink selflink">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Theknightwho-20241027141600-Emanuele6-20241027080300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">14:16, 27 October 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-429" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:Emanuele6" title="User:Emanuele6">Emanuele6</a> As a secondary point, restoring your original edit with the other problems I pointed out was unhelpful. Please do not do that in future. <a href="/wiki/User:Theknightwho" title="User:Theknightwho">Theknightwho</a> (<a class="mw-selflink selflink">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Theknightwho-20241027202100-Theknightwho-20241027141600" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:21, 27 October 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-430" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>The problem you pointed was "If you think the link is wrong, link to the correct term - don't just remove the link and leave the same term in place, please."</dd> <dd>You then added links for ブロッコリー and ニ on top of the word ブロッコリーニ. So your suggestion is to add a link for the letter ニ as if it had meaning, and it weren't just a letter. I don't understand how it makes sense to link the letter ニ if it is just a letter used to spell the word.</dd> <dd>I don't have any strong evidence for ブロッコリーニ being the original spelling, but it really doesn't seem you have either.</dd> <dd>All the sources on wikipedia are a few years more recent than the origin of Broccolini in Japan, and don't predate the commercialisation in America so it is not unlikely that the term is an American invention and the original Japanese name was different, but the reverse is not unlikely either.</dd> <dd>If you want to just remove the mention, that is fine, but I still don't believe it would have made any sense to link ニ separately as you insist, unless you believe "broccoli"+"two" story.</dd> <dd><hr/></dd> <dd>Since you didn't like that I revert your change there, I will disclose that before that I also reverted those two changes you did: <ul><li>I reverted your edits on Italian <a href="/wiki/s%C3%AC" title="sì">sì</a> of moving the "Usage notes" and "Derived terms" from being a subsection of Particle to Noun. They are clearly related to the particle, and Noun is the least likely thing they are related to. <a href="/wiki/Special:Diff/82500631" title="Special:Diff/82500631">82500631</a></li> <li>And I reverted, your change of <code>{{it-conj|a/à+}}</code> => <code>{{it-conj-rfc|a/à+}}</code>, despite the fact that <code>{{it-verb-rfc|a/à+}}</code> was already changed to <code>{{it-verb|a/à+}}</code>. <a href="/wiki/Special:Diff/82498071" title="Special:Diff/82498071">82498071</a></li></ul></dd> <dd>I believe your edits there were obviously wrong, so it is fine that I reverted them, right? <a href="/wiki/User:Emanuele6" title="User:Emanuele6">Emanuele6</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Emanuele6" title="User talk:Emanuele6">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Emanuele6-20241027224200-Theknightwho-20241027202100" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:42, 27 October 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-431" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:Emanuele6" title="User:Emanuele6">Emanuele6</a> What are you talking about? I removed the claim that <a href="/wiki/broccolini#English" title="broccolini">broccolini</a> came from Japanese, so complaining that "I still don't believe it would have made any sense to link ニ separately as you insist" is total nonsense, because I clearly don't insist that if I've removed it. The fact that I initially misread ニ as 二 based on the translation "broccoli two" is irrelevant, since that edit was only there for a few minutes. If you "don't have any strong evidence for ブロッコリーニ being the original spelling" then we should remove it - not include it based on a hunch, when nothing on Wikipedia actually shows it went by that name in Japanese before it was sold to an American company. You also mistakenly reverted my edit on <a href="/wiki/s%C3%AC#Italian" title="sì">sì</a>, reverted yourself, then moved the usage note, so please don't misrepresent what your changes were. <a href="/wiki/User:Theknightwho" title="User:Theknightwho">Theknightwho</a> (<a class="mw-selflink selflink">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Theknightwho-20241027233200-Emanuele6-20241027224200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:32, 27 October 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-432" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>You were just complaining "restoring your original edit with the other problems I pointed out was unhelpful". What could "the other problem" be if not linking the letter ニ? I cannot understand what it would be. So please if you want me to understand what you mean, be more explicit.</dd> <dd><hr/></dd> <dd>I don't believe I am misinterpreting anything; this is the edit you reverted on <a href="/wiki/s%C3%AC" title="sì">sì</a>:</dd> <dd><a class="external free" href="https://en.wiktionary.org/w/index.php?title=s%C3%AC&diff=prev&oldid=82497871">https://en.wiktionary.org/w/index.php?title=s%C3%AC&diff=prev&oldid=82497871</a></dd> <dd>"Particle goes after Noun alphabetically; also Usage notes and Derived terms were for the particle, not the noun (meaning e.g. "give me a yes", "yeses are better than nos", "it is nice to receive a yes", etc)"</dd> <dd>This is the state you left the page in after your edits:</dd> <dd><a class="external free" href="https://en.wiktionary.org/w/index.php?title=s%C3%AC&oldid=82498018">https://en.wiktionary.org/w/index.php?title=s%C3%AC&oldid=82498018</a></dd> <dd>With "Derived terms" and "Usage notes" again wrongly under "Noun".</dd> <dd>Please be more careful. <a href="/wiki/User:Emanuele6" title="User:Emanuele6">Emanuele6</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Emanuele6" title="User talk:Emanuele6">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Emanuele6-20241028001900-Theknightwho-20241027233200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:19, 28 October 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-433" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:Emanuele6" title="User:Emanuele6">Emanuele6</a> Those usage notes were already under the noun section before either of us made any changes (<a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wiktionary.org/w/index.php?title=s%C3%AC&oldid=82405747">[17]</a>), so the only impression I'm getting here is that you don't like the fact I reverted you in the first place, even though you <a class="external text" href="https://en.wiktionary.org/w/index.php?title=s%C3%AC&diff=82497871&oldid=82405747">messed up the adverb section</a> and used the wrong headword template for the new particle section. As for <a href="/wiki/broccolini#English" title="broccolini">broccolini</a>, I specifically told you that you needed to link to the correct term if you believed the link was wrong, not to just remove the link altogether, yet you removed the link by blindly reverting me anyway, suggesting - again- that you just don't like the fact I reverted you in the first place. <a href="/wiki/User:Theknightwho" title="User:Theknightwho">Theknightwho</a> (<a class="mw-selflink selflink">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Theknightwho-20241028002800-Emanuele6-20241028001900" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:28, 28 October 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-434" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>They should be under particle; they are now under particle; I moved them under particle in the edits you reverted, because they were incorrectly under Noun instead of particle; before my edits the particle was mislabled as Adverb instead of Particle.</dd> <dd>I have zero problems, with you adding the head tag I forgot "Particle" and reordering "Particle" before everything else.</dd> <dd>What I have a problem with is you moving "Derived terms" and "Usage notes" again hierarchically under Noun, which I had fixed. They should be under Particle.</dd> <dd><hr/></dd> <dd>> As for broccolini, I specifically told you that you needed to link to the correct term if you believed the link was wrong, not to just remove the link altogether.</dd> <dd>There is no page for ブロッコリーニ to link, I would have linked it if there were one. There were also other terms mentioned without a link before you removed them (aspabroc).<a href="/wiki/User:Emanuele6" title="User:Emanuele6">Emanuele6</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Emanuele6" title="User talk:Emanuele6">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Emanuele6-20241028003900-Theknightwho-20241028002800" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:39, 28 October 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-435" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:Emanuele6" title="User:Emanuele6">Emanuele6</a> All I did was revert your edit which messed the entry up - don't blame me for the mistakes made by some other editor before I touched the page.</dd> <dd><div class="paragraphbreak" style="margin-top:0.5em"></div></dd> <dd>"There is no page for ブロッコリーニ to link" - that is irrelevant. There are plenty of other redlinks on the site. I also fail to see the relevance of <a href="/w/index.php?title=aspabroc&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="aspabroc (page does not exist)">aspabroc</a> to the etymology of <a href="/wiki/broccolini#English" title="broccolini">broccolini</a>, which is why I removed it. <a href="/wiki/User:Theknightwho" title="User:Theknightwho">Theknightwho</a> (<a class="mw-selflink selflink">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Theknightwho-20241028005800-Emanuele6-20241028003900" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:58, 28 October 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-436" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>I am saying that 'aspabroc' was not linked also, and in your edit with the suggestion, you didn't link it either.</dd> <dd><hr/></dd> <dd>But I "blame" you, for reverting my fix, and leaving the page wrong. <a href="/wiki/User:Emanuele6" title="User:Emanuele6">Emanuele6</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Emanuele6" title="User talk:Emanuele6">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Emanuele6-20241028010300-Theknightwho-20241028005800" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:03, 28 October 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-437" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>"I am saying that 'aspabroc' was not linked also, and in your edit with the suggestion, you didn't link it either."</dd> <dd>I't not like you simply reverted my edit on that page, you have also updated the link to link ブロッコリー instead of ブロッコリ + ー. If following your advice would have been to add a red link for ブロッコリーニ, and I didn't follow it, you didn't follow your advice either by not adding a link for 'apabroc'. So it would not have been easy for me to understand that is what you meant. <a href="/wiki/User:Emanuele6" title="User:Emanuele6">Emanuele6</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Emanuele6" title="User talk:Emanuele6">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Emanuele6-20241028011000-Emanuele6-20241028010300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:10, 28 October 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-438" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd> <dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:Emanuele6" title="User:Emanuele6">Emanuele6</a> If the page already contained a mistake, that's nothing to do with me. And no, I removed the link to Japanese altogether - stop focusing on a change that was only there for a few minutes. <a href="/wiki/User:Theknightwho" title="User:Theknightwho">Theknightwho</a> (<a class="mw-selflink selflink">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Theknightwho-20241028013200-Emanuele6-20241028010300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:32, 28 October 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-439" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>OK. Nothing to do with me either. You had enough of an opinion to think that linking ブロッコリ + ー instead of just ブロッコリー was wrong. I think anyone would also think that ブロッコリー + ニ　instead of just red link ブロッコリーニ is also wrong. I did the best I could to address your "restoring your original edit with the other problems I pointed out was unhelpful" concern, but it seems pointless. You even told me to disregard that edit that edit since "was only there for a few minutes". I didn't blindly reverted, I manually reverted conciously adding ブロッコリーニ as a single word, because it is definitely not compound unless you believe "broccoli"+"two".</dd> <dd>I am only trying to tell you it was concious and I didn't disregard any of your mentioned problems. add redlink was never a suggestion. <a href="/wiki/User:Emanuele6" title="User:Emanuele6">Emanuele6</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Emanuele6" title="User talk:Emanuele6">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Emanuele6-20241028013900-Theknightwho-20241028013200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:39, 28 October 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-440" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:Emanuele6" title="User:Emanuele6">Emanuele6</a> Look, if you're just going to tell me I still believe something I self-evidently do not believe because it makes you feel better, then I'm just going to tell you to stay off my userpage. Thanks. <a href="/wiki/User:Theknightwho" title="User:Theknightwho">Theknightwho</a> (<a class="mw-selflink selflink">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Theknightwho-20241028015200-Emanuele6-20241028013900" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:52, 28 October 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-441" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd> <dd>"All I did was revert your edit which messed the entry up - don't blame me for the mistakes made by some other editor before I touched the page."</dd> <dd>Likewise in sì; you didn't just revert the change, you also did other edits <a href="/wiki/User:Emanuele6" title="User:Emanuele6">Emanuele6</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Emanuele6" title="User talk:Emanuele6">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Emanuele6-20241028011200-Theknightwho-20241028005800" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:12, 28 October 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-442" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:Emanuele6" title="User:Emanuele6">Emanuele6</a> Yes, I <a class="external text" href="https://en.wiktionary.org/w/index.php?title=s%C3%AC&diff=82498018&oldid=82405747">corrected your error</a>, and nothing more. Just <a href="/wiki/take_the_L" title="take the L">take the L</a>. <a href="/wiki/User:Theknightwho" title="User:Theknightwho">Theknightwho</a> (<a class="mw-selflink selflink">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Theknightwho-20241028013500-Emanuele6-20241028011200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:35, 28 October 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-443" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>I know I forgot to add an head tag, I see that; if you want to call me an idiot for that that is completely fine.</dd> <dd>I don't have any problem with that.</dd> <dd>You tried to improve that page, but you definitely reverted too much and added back wrong information that was corrected. <a href="/wiki/User:Emanuele6" title="User:Emanuele6">Emanuele6</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Emanuele6" title="User talk:Emanuele6">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Emanuele6-20241028014100-Theknightwho-20241028013500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:41, 28 October 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-444" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>Holy shit dude. <a href="/wiki/User:Theknightwho" title="User:Theknightwho">Theknightwho</a> (<a class="mw-selflink selflink">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Theknightwho-20241028014200-Emanuele6-20241028014100" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:42, 28 October 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-445" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Jecia" data-mw-thread-id="h-Jecia-20241102213800"><a href="/wiki/Jecia" title="Jecia">Jecia</a></h2>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Theknightwho&action=edit&section=86" title="Edit section: Jecia">edit</a>]<div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata">Latest comment: <a href="#c-Arafsymudwr-20241106074900-Theknightwho-20241106041400">21 days ago</a>11 comments2 people in discussion</div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> Hi, could I check what leads you to add <a href="/wiki/Jecia#Welsh" title="Jecia">Jecia</a> as soft mutation of <a href="/wiki/Tsiecia#Welsh" title="Tsiecia">Tsiecia</a>? I definitely don't dispute that Welsh has a ts→j soft mutation, especially in colloquial language - I'm querying this specific word as a very non-everyday word of clear non-native derivation, consequently with less chance of having been assimilated enough to get the mutation, colloquially or not. I myself don't speak Welsh natively but I've queried this with some who do, and the response has been that they wouldn't mutate Tsiecia ("only jokingly" said one). <a href="/wiki/User:Arafsymudwr" title="User:Arafsymudwr">Arafsymudwr</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Arafsymudwr" title="User talk:Arafsymudwr">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Arafsymudwr-20241102213800-Jecia" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:38, 2 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-446" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:Arafsymudwr" title="User:Arafsymudwr">Arafsymudwr</a> I think this relates to the wider problem of mutations that's currently the subject of a thread on the Beer Parlour, where there are often mutations which do exist, but may be uncommon for various different reasons (see <a href="/wiki/Wiktionary:Beer_parlour/2024/November#"Note:_Some_of_these_forms_may_be_hypothetical._Not_every_possible_mutated_form_of_every_word_actually_occurs."" title="Wiktionary:Beer parlour/2024/November">here</a>). I certainly know that mutations like Tsieina → Jeina happen, so this isn't any kind of inherent grammatical restriction on country names, though I was under the impression that all tsi- mutations happened with non-native words, since it's a non-native, somewhat-marginal phoneme.</dd> <dd><div class="paragraphbreak" style="margin-top:0.5em"></div></dd> <dd>I was actually in the process of writing a lengthy post on your talkpage relating to revamping some aspects of the mutation template, which I'll finish up shortly. <a href="/wiki/User:Theknightwho" title="User:Theknightwho">Theknightwho</a> (<a class="mw-selflink selflink">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Theknightwho-20241102214200-Arafsymudwr-20241102213800" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:42, 2 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-447" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>I've already joined that discussion actually!</dd> <dd>Still, I'd like to get to the bottom of this specific instance, as words that don't mutate due to being in some sense "abnormal" are not exactly unheard of in Welsh, and this does look to me like a protologistic mutation.</dd> <dd><a href="/wiki/User:Arafsymudwr" title="User:Arafsymudwr">Arafsymudwr</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Arafsymudwr" title="User talk:Arafsymudwr">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Arafsymudwr-20241102214500-Theknightwho-20241102214200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:45, 2 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-448" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:Arafsymudwr" title="User:Arafsymudwr">Arafsymudwr</a> Nothing in particular - I was simply adding it to the relevant lemmas and didn't go seeking it out especially. You're right that some terms don't mutate due to being abnormal, of course, but I don't really see how this is protologistic any more than any inflection of a rare or unusual term is, unless we agree that the colloquial mutation tsi- → j(i)- doesn't occur reliably enough for it to be considered regular in the spoken language. <a href="/wiki/User:Theknightwho" title="User:Theknightwho">Theknightwho</a> (<a class="mw-selflink selflink">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Theknightwho-20241102215200-Arafsymudwr-20241102214500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:52, 2 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-449" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>Yes, I suppose "protologistic" isn't quite the word I'm grasping for - but even so, words like <a href="/wiki/g%C3%AAm#Welsh" title="gêm">gêm</a> are specifically excluded from taking part in soft mutation. To me Tsiecia feels the same, but not undergoing nasal mutation either.</dd> <dd> </dd> <dd>For what it's worth, I really do think mutated forms are less worthy of an entry than say, the first person plural future form of a Welsh verb, or the dative plural of a Latin noun. Because unlike inflections, mutated words don't really mean anything in themselves, outside some specific exceptions like the one I mentioned <a href="/wiki/Wiktionary:Beer_parlour/2024/November#"Note:_Some_of_these_forms_may_be_hypothetical._Not_every_possible_mutated_form_of_every_word_actually_occurs."" title="Wiktionary:Beer parlour/2024/November">here</a> and think should get an entry. After all they arise due to long-ago sandhi phenomena becoming morphologised and can mean any number of things depending on syntax and context.</dd> <dd> </dd> <dd>I do support generally adding mutated forms of ts- words (that mutate) though, as this particular application of soft mutation is quite notable. <a href="/wiki/User:Arafsymudwr" title="User:Arafsymudwr">Arafsymudwr</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Arafsymudwr" title="User talk:Arafsymudwr">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Arafsymudwr-20241102230100-Theknightwho-20241102215200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:01, 2 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-450" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:Arafsymudwr" title="User:Arafsymudwr">Arafsymudwr</a> Hmm, I'm not sure I can agree that it's comparable to <a href="/wiki/g%C3%AAm#Welsh" title="gêm">gêm</a> lacking a soft mutation, as there is cross-linguistic evidence for initial consonants to be much more resistant to deletion than they are to other kinds of mutation. Breit refers to this in Welsh Mutation and Strict Modularity (p. 275), comparing the soft mutation of Welsh g- to Campadanian Sardinian, where a similar aversion developed with borrowed terms that would have otherwise deleted initial voiced plosives under regular conditions. This explains why the soft mutation with g-, and only that mutation with that particular initial, is commonly not used with borrowings. There are reason to treat tsi- initials as special, but I don't think there's anything meaningful in that particular comparison.</dd> <dd><div class="paragraphbreak" style="margin-top:0.5em"></div></dd> <dd>I'm also not super convinced that they are less worthy of entries, either. Isn't this directly comparable to vowel harmony (we could call mutation "consonant harmony", I guess), where certain terms will vary under the surrounding phonological conditions? We still create entries for them, at the end of the day. Admittedly, there aren't as many of them. <a href="/wiki/User:Theknightwho" title="User:Theknightwho">Theknightwho</a> (<a class="mw-selflink selflink">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Theknightwho-20241102231500-Arafsymudwr-20241102230100" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:15, 2 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-451" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>Mutation definitely isn't consonant harmony. It WAS sandhi in (early) Brittonic but now it isn't. The minimal pair of ei march (her horse) and ei farch (his horse) shows mutation isn't just due to surrounding phonological conditions in the modern (or medieval) language.</dd> <dd> </dd> <dd>NGL my instinct would indeed be to fold into one entry vowel harmony variants of affixes in languages that have those. Perhaps it's just as well that I don't concern myself with those languages! <a href="/wiki/User:Arafsymudwr" title="User:Arafsymudwr">Arafsymudwr</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Arafsymudwr" title="User talk:Arafsymudwr">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Arafsymudwr-20241102232700-Theknightwho-20241102231500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:27, 2 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-452" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:Arafsymudwr" title="User:Arafsymudwr">Arafsymudwr</a> I've no objection to them being non-lemmas - it would be ridiculous to spread stuff over multiple entries. Alright - I'm going to add that post on your user talkpage. I was going to do some mock-up examples of the changes, but it's proving a bit faffy and isn't something I want to dedicate time to getting right unless I'm actually going to implement it. <a href="/wiki/User:Theknightwho" title="User:Theknightwho">Theknightwho</a> (<a class="mw-selflink selflink">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Theknightwho-20241103001100-Arafsymudwr-20241102232700" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:11, 3 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-453" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>Further to this matter - one of my native speaker informants suggested that Jecia could stay up, but with something to indicate humour. Based on that, I'd propose changing (<a href="/wiki/Appendix:Glossary#colloquial" title="Appendix:Glossary">colloquial</a>) (which gives the impression that it is normative in colloquial speech even though it isn't) to (<a href="/wiki/humorous" title="humorous">humorous</a>, <a href="/wiki/Appendix:Glossary#nonstandard" title="Appendix:Glossary">nonstandard</a>) - by analogy with how English <a href="/wiki/thunk#Welsh" title="thunk">thunk</a> (verb) is treated. Same with Tsieceg, Tsiecaid, Tsieciad.</dd> <dd>Worth noting that colloquial and nonstandard are absolutely not synonyms in Welsh - the Literary/Colloquial opposition is far more like the Katharevousa/Demotic split in Greek than anything we have in English. <a href="/wiki/User:Arafsymudwr" title="User:Arafsymudwr">Arafsymudwr</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Arafsymudwr" title="User talk:Arafsymudwr">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Arafsymudwr-20241103212800-Theknightwho-20241103001100" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:28, 3 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-454" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:Arafsymudwr" title="User:Arafsymudwr">Arafsymudwr</a> I agree that colloquial and nonstandard aren't synonyms. I think they're both fine, but perhaps "nonstandard, colloquial or humorous" might be best: it's always nonstandard (since it's not part of the literary language), but I think it's probably possible to draw a distinction between colloquial use (pronunciation spelling) vs humorous use (intentionally mutating the written form for humorous effect). Should we apply this to all tsi- → j- mutations? The balance may differ from term to term, but the sense I get is that this is one of those things that people tend to pronounce more than they're necessarily aware, as is often the case with colloquialisms in other languages, too. <a href="/wiki/User:Theknightwho" title="User:Theknightwho">Theknightwho</a> (<a class="mw-selflink selflink">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Theknightwho-20241106041400-Arafsymudwr-20241103212800" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">04:14, 6 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-455" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>Not everything in Welsh that is not Literary is "nonstandard". Most Welsh that you see written and spoken today on Newyddion S4C, BBC Cymru etc. is in standard Colloquial Welsh, which is distinct from Literary - doesn't use the Literary verb conjugations or the second person plural <a href="/wiki/chwi#Welsh" title="chwi">chwi</a> for example. Some writers might import some Literaryisms like impersonal verb forms.</dd> <dd>I would be against anything that suggests Jecia etc. are normative in Colloquial Welsh.</dd> <dd>I'd be more comfortable about keeping it in for forms like jiwawa, but I'll get back to you on what others think. <a href="/wiki/User:Arafsymudwr" title="User:Arafsymudwr">Arafsymudwr</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Arafsymudwr" title="User talk:Arafsymudwr">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Arafsymudwr-20241106074900-Theknightwho-20241106041400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">07:49, 6 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-456" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Theknightwho_pronunciation" data-mw-thread-id="h-Theknightwho_pronunciation-20241103000100">Theknightwho pronunciation</h2>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Theknightwho&action=edit&section=87" title="Edit section: Theknightwho pronunciation">edit</a>]<div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata">Latest comment: <a href="#c-Theknightwho-20241103090200-Flame,_not_lame-20241103000100">24 days ago</a>2 comments2 people in discussion</div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> Hello, Is this pronunciation correct? <ul><li><style data-mw-deduplicate="TemplateStyles:r50165410">.mw-parser-output .k-player .k-attribution{visibility:hidden}</style><table class="audiotable" style="vertical-align: middle; display: inline-block; list-style: none; line-height: 1em; border-collapse: collapse; margin: 0;"><tbody><tr><td>Audio (<a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_English" class="extiw" title="w:American English">US</a>):</td><td class="audiofile"><audio id="mwe_player_0" controls="" preload="none" data-mw-tmh="" class="mw-file-element" width="175" style="width:175px;" data-durationhint="2" data-mwtitle="LL-Q1860_(eng)-Flame,_not_lame-Theknightwho.wav" data-mwprovider="wikimediacommons"><source src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/transcoded/0/04/LL-Q1860_%28eng%29-Flame%2C_not_lame-Theknightwho.wav/LL-Q1860_%28eng%29-Flame%2C_not_lame-Theknightwho.wav.ogg" type="audio/ogg; codecs="vorbis"" data-transcodekey="ogg" data-width="0" data-height="0"/><source src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/transcoded/0/04/LL-Q1860_%28eng%29-Flame%2C_not_lame-Theknightwho.wav/LL-Q1860_%28eng%29-Flame%2C_not_lame-Theknightwho.wav.mp3" type="audio/mpeg" data-transcodekey="mp3" data-width="0" data-height="0"/><source src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/04/LL-Q1860_%28eng%29-Flame%2C_not_lame-Theknightwho.wav" type="audio/wav" data-width="0" data-height="0"/></audio></td><td class="audiometa" style="font-size: 80%;">(<a href="/wiki/File:LL-Q1860_(eng)-Flame,_not_lame-Theknightwho.wav" title="File:LL-Q1860 (eng)-Flame, not lame-Theknightwho.wav">file</a>)</td></tr></tbody></table></li></ul> Thank you <a href="/wiki/User:Flame,_not_lame" title="User:Flame, not lame">Flame, not lame</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Flame,_not_lame" title="User talk:Flame, not lame">Don't talk to me.</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Flame,_not_lame-20241103000100-Theknightwho_pronunciation" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:01, 3 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-457" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:Flame,_not_lame" title="User:Flame, not lame">Flame, not lame</a> Yep, that's right! <a href="/wiki/User:Theknightwho" title="User:Theknightwho">Theknightwho</a> (<a class="mw-selflink selflink">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Theknightwho-20241103090200-Flame,_not_lame-20241103000100" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">09:02, 3 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-458" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Heads_up_about_deleted_category" data-mw-thread-id="h-Heads_up_about_deleted_category-20241115145400">Heads up about deleted category</h2>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Theknightwho&action=edit&section=88" title="Edit section: Heads up about deleted category">edit</a>]<div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata">Latest comment: <a href="#c-Theknightwho-20241115152200-Koavf-20241115145400">12 days ago</a>2 comments2 people in discussion</div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> Similar to <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Geshiza#User_categories" title="User talk:Geshiza">User_talk:Geshiza#User_categories</a>, I deleted a category you had in your userspace as a part of routine maintenance without prejudice to it being recreated as long as it's properly categorized. —<a href="/wiki/User:Koavf" title="User:Koavf">Justin (koavf)</a>❤<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Koavf" title="User talk:Koavf">T</a>☮<a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Koavf" title="Special:Contributions/Koavf">C</a>☺<a href="/wiki/Special:EmailUser/Koavf" title="Special:EmailUser/Koavf">M</a>☯ <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Koavf-20241115145400-Heads_up_about_deleted_category" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">14:54, 15 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-459" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>Okay. <a href="/wiki/User:Theknightwho" title="User:Theknightwho">Theknightwho</a> (<a class="mw-selflink selflink">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Theknightwho-20241115152200-Koavf-20241115145400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:22, 15 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-460" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Chinese_character_entries_with_errors" data-mw-thread-id="h-Chinese_character_entries_with_errors-20241116020700">Chinese character entries with errors</h2>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Theknightwho&action=edit&section=89" title="Edit section: Chinese character entries with errors">edit</a>]<div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata">Latest comment: <a href="#c-Chuck_Entz-20241116020700-Chinese_character_entries_with_errors">11 days ago</a>1 comment1 person in discussion</div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> I know it's the wee hours where you are, but when you do get around to looking at <a href="/wiki/Category:E" class="mw-redirect" title="Category:E">CAT:E</a>: the Chinese character entries there are all showing errors in <a href="/wiki/Module:hak-pron" title="Module:hak-pron">Module:hak-pron</a>, but I checked the revision histories for everything in the transclusion list for one of them, and the only changes in the last 24 hours were your edits to <a href="/wiki/Module:fun" title="Module:fun">Module:fun</a> and <a href="/wiki/Module:table" title="Module:table">Module:table</a>. Another thing I noticed while clearing a module error at <a href="/wiki/it" title="it">it</a>: there's a template loop in the translation tables there that's apparently caused by Chinese translations. Pretty much everything in <a href="/wiki/Category:Pages_with_template_loops" title="Category:Pages with template loops">CAT:Pages with template loops</a> contains a link to a Chinese character entry. All the Latin-script entries had a something like a translation table or etymology section with links to Chinese character entries. They all showed the template loops when I previewd those sections, and the template loops disappeared when I previewed them with the links removed. In the case of <a href="/wiki/%D1%8E%D0%B0%D0%BD" title="юан">юан</a>, it links to Chinese <a href="/wiki/%E5%9C%93#Chinese" title="圓">圓</a>／<a href="/wiki/%E5%9C%86#Chinese" title="圆">圆</a> (yuán), which doesn't link back to <a href="/wiki/%D1%8E%D0%B0%D0%BD" title="юан">юан</a> at all. In the past I've seen at least one case where <code style="white-space:pre-wrap">{{<a href="/wiki/Template:ja-see#top" title="Template:ja-see">ja-see</a>}}</code> or <code style="white-space:pre-wrap">{{<a href="/wiki/Template:zh-see#top" title="Template:zh-see">zh-see</a>}}</code> linked to a Chinese character entry where there was a similar template linking to another section on the first page, but these are just linking templates like <code style="white-space:pre-wrap">{{<a href="/wiki/Template:t#top" title="Template:t">t</a>}}</code>, <code style="white-space:pre-wrap">{{<a href="/wiki/Template:derived#top" title="Template:derived">der</a>}}</code> and <code style="white-space:pre-wrap">{{<a href="/wiki/Template:mention#top" title="Template:mention">m</a>}}</code>. I'm not sure if it's related to the first issue, or even how long it's been like this. Thanks! <a href="/wiki/User:Chuck_Entz" title="User:Chuck Entz">Chuck Entz</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Chuck_Entz" title="User talk:Chuck Entz">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Chuck_Entz-20241116020700-Chinese_character_entries_with_errors" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:07, 16 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-461" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="duplicate_entry_under_"grad"" data-mw-thread-id="h-duplicate_entry_under_"grad"-20241124161900">duplicate entry under "grad"</h2>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Theknightwho&action=edit&section=90" title="Edit section: duplicate entry under "grad"">edit</a>]<div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata">Latest comment: <a href="#c-Theknightwho-20241124162400-Sdiabhon_Sdiamhon-20241124161900">3 days ago</a>2 comments2 people in discussion</div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> I deleted the 'abbr' line under "grad" because it is a duplicate of the 'abbreviation of' line above it. You restored the duplicate. It should be deleted again. <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Sdiabhon_Sdiamhon&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Sdiabhon Sdiamhon (page does not exist)">Sdiabhon Sdiamhon</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Sdiabhon_Sdiamhon" title="User talk:Sdiabhon Sdiamhon">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Sdiabhon_Sdiamhon-20241124161900-duplicate_entry_under_"grad"" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:19, 24 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-462" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>@<a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Sdiabhon_Sdiamhon&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Sdiabhon Sdiamhon (page does not exist)">Sdiabhon Sdiamhon</a> I already fixed it at the time - look at my next edit. Thanks. <a href="/wiki/User:Theknightwho" title="User:Theknightwho">Theknightwho</a> (<a class="mw-selflink selflink">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Theknightwho-20241124162400-Sdiabhon_Sdiamhon-20241124161900" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:24, 24 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-463" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Hindustani_2" data-mw-thread-id="h-Hindustani_2-20241127210800">Hindustani</h2>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Theknightwho&action=edit&section=91" title="Edit section: Hindustani">edit</a>]<div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata">Latest comment: <a href="#c-Foreverknowledge-20241127210800-Hindustani_2">1 hour ago</a>1 comment1 person in discussion</div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> Hi. Can you specify why you reinstated the Urdu sense but not the Hindi sense? The Hindi sense had a supporting reference and was there for many months.<a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Foreverknowledge&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Foreverknowledge (page does not exist)">Foreverknowledge</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Foreverknowledge" title="User talk:Foreverknowledge">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User_talk:Theknightwho#c-Foreverknowledge-20241127210800-Hindustani_2" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:08, 27 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-464" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a>    </div><noscript><img src="https://login.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:CentralAutoLogin/start?type=1x1" alt="" width="1" height="1" style="border: none; position: absolute;"></noscript> <div class="printfooter" data-nosnippet="">Retrieved from "<a dir="ltr" href="https://en.wiktionary.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Theknightwho&oldid=82778600">https://en.wiktionary.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Theknightwho&oldid=82778600</a>"</div></div> <div id="catlinks" class="catlinks catlinks-allhidden" data-mw="interface"></div> </div> </main> </div> <div class="mw-footer-container"> <footer id="footer" class="mw-footer" > <ul id="footer-info"> <li id="footer-info-lastmod"> This page was last edited on 27 November 2024, at 21:10.</li> <li id="footer-info-copyright">Definitions and other text are available under the <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="//creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/">Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike License</a>; additional terms may apply. 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