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从思考性，到思考爱——一场始于极限的问题讨论（始于极限）书评
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src="//img3.doubanio.com/dae/accounts/resources/851ead1/book/bundle.js" defer="defer"></script> <div id="wrapper" class="book-content review-wrapper"> <div id="content"> <div class="grid-16-8 clearfix"> <div class="article"> <h1> <span property="v:summary">从思考性，到思考爱——一场始于极限的问题讨论</span> </h1> <div> <div class="main" id="14722723"> <a class="avatar author-avatar left" href="https://www.douban.com/people/MuChalll/"><img width="48" height="48" src="https://img2.doubanio.com/icon/u189416169-81.jpg"></a> <header class="main-hd"> <a href="https://www.douban.com/people/MuChalll/"> <span>མི་རྟག་པ།</span> </a> 评论 <a href="https://book.douban.com/subject/35966120/">始于极限</a> <span class="allstar50 main-title-rating" title="力荐"></span> <span class="main-title-hide">5</span> <div class="main-meta"> <span content="2022-10-22">2022-10-22 22:40:39</span> <span>浙江</span> </div> <script type="application/ld+json"> { "@context": "http://schema.org/", "@type": "Review", "datePublished": "2022-10-22T22:40:39", "reviewBody": "《始于极限》读书整理： 思考：我们是否陷入了某种独立女性陷阱？ 一、 情色资本 1、“始于极限”标题暗指：立于极限的我（铃木凉美）从自己所在之处审视过去。 2、铃木的困境1：拥有前av女演员的身份，但不愿意...", "description": "{ review.abstract(200) }", "itemReviewed": { "@type": "Book", "name": "始于极限", "url": "/subject/35966120/", "sameAs": "https://book.douban.com/subject/35966120/", "image": "https://img9.doubanio.com/view/subject/l/public/s34300626.jpg" }, "publisher": { "@type": "Organization", "name": "豆瓣(Douban)" }, "author": { "@type": "Person", "url": "https://www.douban.com/people/MuChalll/", "name": "མི་རྟག་པ།", "sameAs": "https://www.douban.com/people/MuChalll/" }, "reviewRating": { "@type": "Rating", "ratingValue": "5" } } </script> </header> <link rel="stylesheet" href="https://img1.doubanio.com/f/zerkalo/00ff9bf8b07d831cbe53185984b51cdaa428fbf5/css/review/list.css"> <link rel="stylesheet" href="https://img1.doubanio.com/f/zerkalo/c7323fce7e9167c8bdd415abc3acf3b458e83bba/css/review/rich_content.css"> <link rel="stylesheet" href="https://img1.doubanio.com/f/zerkalo/3aeb281ab0e4f2c7050458684acfeb6838441de9/css/review/editor/ng/setting_standalone.css" /> <div class="main-bd" id="review-14722723-content" data-ad-ext="有用62 · 没用0"> <p class="main-title-tip"> 这篇书评可能有关键情节透露 </p> <div id="link-report-14722723"> <div class="review-content clearfix" data-author="མི་རྟག་པ།" data-url="https://book.douban.com/review/14722723/" data-original="0"> <p data-align="" data-page="0">《始于极限》读书整理：</p><p data-page="0">思考：我们是否陷入了某种独立女性陷阱？</p><p data-page="0">一、 情色资本</p><p data-page="0">1、“始于极限”标题暗指：立于极限的我（铃木凉美）从自己所在之处审视过去。</p><p data-page="0">2、铃木的困境1：拥有前av女演员的身份，但不愿意以“受害者”的姿态为实际所受的伤害定罪（上野称这种心理为“恐弱”）</p><p data-page="0">3、凯瑟琳·哈基姆的“情色资本论”认为性吸引力具备商品价值，上野反对这个观点，认为：资本是可以通过努力来获得并实现积累的，且资本的所有者对于资本是具备控制权的，而“情色资本”则无法做到。情色价值被评估者强行赋予，又被强行剥夺，情色价值的所有者无法拥有控制权，因而将情色价值视为一种资本显然是对于“年轻漂亮更易被占便宜”这一事实的一种学术粉饰，本质上是将自我的性价值物质化、商品化。</p><p data-page="0">4、性市场建立在经济资本压倒性的性别不对称上。除极少数例外，性市场是“属于男人、由男人主导、为男人服务的市场”。</p><p data-page="0">5、上野曾将“与不尊重自己的男人随便发生性关系”比作“把身体和灵魂扔进阴沟”。</p><p data-page="0">6、自称受害者并不是软弱的表现，反而是强大的证明。（以伊藤诗织女士为例，她在反复地痛苦与挣扎中选择抛头露面，勇敢地向公众讲述她“被强暴”的悲惨遭遇）</p><p data-page="0">7、“自由是一种令人眩晕的失重状态。”——上野千鹤子</p><p data-page="0">二、 母女</p><p data-page="0">1、 铃木坦言自己过早地探索夜世界，实际上是在挑战一种稳定的母女关系，并且试图将自己逼近母女紧张关系的极限——考验母亲绝对的爱和成为妓女。</p><p data-page="0">2、 为什么铃木难以将自己置身于受害者处境？从某种程度上来说，她进入夜世界的理由并非是为生活所困，“误入歧途”是她主动选择的结果，因而她始终觉得自己能够为自己的行为负责。然而，“无法忍受自己为弱者”恰好能够为男人不负责任的态度免责。</p><p data-page="0">3、 铃木凉美：“我总觉得被这样对待是成为AV女演员或陪酒女郎的必然代价。”——从侧面反映出，置身性产业的从业者长期以来所受的剥削导致道德底线被不断降低，形成了基本的行业认同。</p><p data-page="0">4、 铃木的困境2：认清了部分男性的阴暗面后，转而对男性群体失望，无法真正面对恋爱，也放弃了结婚的打算。</p><p data-page="0">三、 恋爱与性</p><p data-page="0">1、 上野：我至今相信，恋爱是谈了比不谈好。因为在恋爱的游戏场上，人能够深入学习自己和他人。恋爱会帮助我们了解自己的欲望、嫉妒、控制欲、利己心、宽容和超脱。 </p><p data-page="0">恋爱是斗争的平台，你要夺取对方的自我，并放弃自己的自我。我从不认为恋爱是一种放纵的体验 。在恋爱的过程中，我们受到伤害，也互相伤害，借此艰难地摸清无论如何都不能让渡给他人的自我防线，以及对方那条无法逾线的自我界限。 </p><p data-page="0">我向来认为恋爱不会蒙蔽一个人的双眼，恰恰相反，恋爱是一种“面对对方时极度清醒，以至于在旁人看来无比疯狂”的状态。跟爱上一个窝囊废的女人列举男方的多少缺点都是徒劳，因为她早就一清二楚。正因为对情人的弱点了如指掌，才能比其他人更残酷地伤害对方。 </p><p data-page="0">能使你充盈、教你认识自己的，是“爱”而非“被爱”，是“欲想”而非“被欲想”。没有性和爱，人也活得下去，但“有”比“没有”确实更能丰富人生的经历。</p><p data-page="0">2、 恋爱绝不是死死捍卫自我界限的游戏，而是通过狠狠品味与自己不同的他人的反应，同时了解自己和他人的过程。</p><p data-page="0">四、 婚姻</p><p data-page="0">1、上野：“人怎么能忍住不搞婚外恋的？”</p><p data-page="0">五、 认可需求（社会认可：男性往往表现在权力金钱，女性则表现在婚姻）</p><p data-page="0">1、 交易性行为（求生性行为）：包括经济资源、权力、特权、认可在内的所有资源都不平均地分配给了男性群体，劣势玩家被迫回应有条件的爱，以寻求经济报酬和社会认可（以非洲加纳为例）。</p><p data-page="0">2、 认可需求是一种被动的需求，即“想要被认可”和“想要被爱”。弗洛姆在《爱的艺术》指出，爱是一种积极主动的行为，而积极主动的行为正是自主的标志。</p><p data-page="0">六、 能力</p><p data-page="0">1、 铃木：“我们这一代所处的环境太过优越，仅靠男人的认可无法得到满足；但我们的自我意识又太过贫瘠，没了男人的认可就无法满足。”</p><p data-page="0">2、 即使一个人享有各种能力和资源，只要执着于“被爱”、不愿放弃男人的认可，就无法从容地选择“爱”一个人。</p><p data-page="0">3、 上野：“把易碎品当作易碎品对待。”每个人都会变老，而这也就意味着每个人都会成为残障者，因此精神和身体都将成为易碎品，易碎品就得享受易碎品的待遇，不要作贱自己。</p><p data-page="0">4、 思考：什么是独立女性陷阱？——上野称自己年轻时把自己的“肉体和精神扔进阴沟”的性事是为了让身体屈服于精神，然而这样做是否真的达成了效果？还是反过来实际对自己造成了伤害却浑然不知？独立女性并不等于性解放。</p><p data-page="0">5、 性是性，爱是爱，两者可能一致，也可能不一致。</p><p data-page="0">七、 工作</p><p data-page="0">八、 独立</p><p data-page="0">1、 上野：“女儿最大的叛逆，就是狠狠糟蹋父母无比珍视的自己。”</p><p data-page="0">九、 团结</p><p data-page="0">1、 独立女性所面临选择的矛盾：兼顾家庭与事业的矛盾：在工作中表现的出色与优秀并不能填补单身的空白、婚姻年龄的焦虑。</p><p data-page="0">2、 人生路上有人陪伴，这也许是幸运的，也可能是不幸的。不过到头来终究是“孤身一人”,区别不过早晚而已。</p><p data-page="0">3、 不要急于将无依无靠的心转向婚姻和家庭。婚姻也好，家庭也罢，都不是女性的人生安全保障品。</p><p data-page="0">十、 女性主义</p><p data-page="0">1、 铃木：“女性主义的魅力就在于，它像一块宽大的地毯，五颜六色的丝线穿插其中，你可以在既有的观点的基础上接触到它，而它并不要求你为之反省。”</p><p data-page="0">2、 上野：“女性主义是热火朝天的言论竞技场。没有异端审判，也没有除名。”</p><p data-page="0">3、 人的好与坏取决于关系。恶意会牵出恶意，善意则会得到善意的回报。权力会滋生揣摩上意与阿谀奉承，无助会催生出傲慢与自大。</p><p data-page="0">4、 是否自称女性主义者并不重要，关键不在于名头，而在于实质。</p><p data-page="0">5、 女性运动也是运动，它形成的前提条件就是“我们女性”这一集体身份认知的确立。</p><p data-page="0">6、 上野：“女性主义是一个自我申报的概念，自称女性主义者就是女性主义者，女性主义不存在正确和错误之分。女性主义是一种没有政党中央、没有教堂和牧师，也没有中心的运动，所以没有异端审判，也没有除名。”</p><p data-page="0">十一、自由</p><p data-page="0">1、 铃木：“自由和争议总是有冲突的，也有许多表达在众人的惋惜中被禁播禁售。不是所有的东西都应该得到保护，抗议也不都是合理的，我甚至觉得试图建立某种标准也很荒唐，但仍然希望人们更果敢地发出适度的抗议，并且更勇敢地接受抗议。”</p><p data-page="0">十二、男人</p><p data-page="0">1、 铃木：“我殷切希望，社会变革和追求个人幸福可以越来越容易兼容，变革者能够在幸福生活的同时对社会提出抗议，而不至于陷入危险。”</p><p data-page="0">2、 上野：“活着就是孤独地面对自身的利己主义。只有建立起彼此自我对等的纠葛，男女之间才能有正经的恋爱。”</p><p data-page="0">3、 上野：“‘你现在是谁’，比‘你过去是谁’重要得多。”</p><p data-page="0">4、 女性主义的利女思维：将自身利益放在首位的女性定能改写女人的生存策略。</p><p data-page="0">拓展阅读：</p><p data-page="0">1、 艾里希·弗洛姆，《爱的艺术》</p><p data-page="0">2、 上野千鹤子，《序章：战争与性暴力比较史的视角》</p><p data-page="0">3、 上野千鹤子，《厌女》</p><p data-page="0">4、 伊藤诗织，《黑箱》</p><p data-page="0">5、 铃木凉美，《“AV女演员”的社会学》</p> </div> </div> <div class="main-author"> </div> <div class="main-panel-useful" data-rid="14722723" data-is_owner="false" data-can_vote="true"> <button class="btn useful_count j a_show_login" data-rid="14722723"> 有用 62 </button> <button class="btn useless_count j a_show_login" data-rid="14722723"> 没用 0 </button> </div> </div> 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class="info-item-key">作者:</span> <span class="info-item-val">[日] 上野千鹤子 / [日] 铃木凉美</span> </li> <li class="info-item"> <span class="info-item-key">出版:</span> <span class="info-item-val">新星出版社</span> </li> <li class="info-item"> <span class="info-item-key">定价:</span> <span class="info-item-val">59.00元</span> </li> <li class="info-item"> <span class="info-item-key">装帧:</span> <span class="info-item-val">平装</span> </li> <li class="info-item"> <span class="info-item-key">页数:</span> <span class="info-item-val">304</span> </li> <li class="info-item"> <span class="info-item-key">时间:</span> <span class="info-item-val">2022-9-20</span> </li> </ul> </div> </div> </div> <div class="extra"> </div> </div> </div> <div id="footer"> <div class="footer-extra"></div> <span id="icp" class="fleft gray-link"> © 2005-2025 douban.com, all rights reserved 北京豆网科技有限公司 </span> <a href="https://www.douban.com/hnypt/variformcyst.py" style="display: none;"></a> <span class="fright"> <a 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