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data-event-name="pinnable-header.vector-toc.pin">move to sidebar</button> <button class="vector-pinnable-header-toggle-button vector-pinnable-header-unpin-button" data-event-name="pinnable-header.vector-toc.unpin">hide</button> </div> <ul class="vector-toc-contents" id="mw-panel-toc-list"> <li id="toc-mw-content-text" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a href="#" class="vector-toc-link"> <div class="vector-toc-text">(Top)</div> </a> </li> <li id="toc-Mongolic_or_Turkic?" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1 vector-toc-list-item-expanded"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Mongolic_or_Turkic?"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">1</span> <span>Mongolic or Turkic?</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">1 comment</span> <ul id="toc-Mongolic_or_Turkic?-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Are_they_yastan?" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1 vector-toc-list-item-expanded"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Are_they_yastan?"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">2</span> <span>Are they yastan?</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">4 comments</span> <ul id="toc-Are_they_yastan?-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-not_tribes" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1 vector-toc-list-item-expanded"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#not_tribes"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">3</span> <span>not tribes</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">1 comment</span> <ul id="toc-not_tribes-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Karakalpaks" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1 vector-toc-list-item-expanded"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Karakalpaks"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">4</span> <span>Karakalpaks</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">1 comment</span> <ul id="toc-Karakalpaks-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Not_really_Mongols" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1 vector-toc-list-item-expanded"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Not_really_Mongols"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">5</span> <span>Not really Mongols</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">2 comments</span> <ul id="toc-Not_really_Mongols-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Tuvans" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1 vector-toc-list-item-expanded"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Tuvans"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">6</span> <span>Tuvans</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">2 comments</span> <ul id="toc-Tuvans-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Links_to_some_ethnic_groups_are_removed" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1 vector-toc-list-item-expanded"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Links_to_some_ethnic_groups_are_removed"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">7</span> <span>Links to some ethnic groups are removed</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">1 comment</span> <ul id="toc-Links_to_some_ethnic_groups_are_removed-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Scope_of_the_template" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1 vector-toc-list-item-expanded"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Scope_of_the_template"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">8</span> <span>Scope of the template</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">9 comments</span> <ul id="toc-Scope_of_the_template-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> </ul> </div> </div> </nav> </div> </div> <div class="mw-content-container"> <main id="content" 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If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Mongols" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Mongols">the discussion</a> and see a list of open tasks.<span class="metadata wpb-metadata"><span class="wpb-project">Mongols</span><span class="wpb-project_link">Wikipedia:WikiProject Mongols</span><span class="wpb-banner_name">Template:WikiProject Mongols</span><span class="wpb-assessment_cat">Mongols articles</span></span></td><td class="mbox-image wpb-image"><span typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Mongols-map.png" class="mw-file-description"><img alt="WikiProject icon" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/7e/Mongols-map.png/80px-Mongols-map.png" decoding="async" width="80" height="66" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/7e/Mongols-map.png/120px-Mongols-map.png 1.5x, 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href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1259570071"><table class="tmbox tmbox-notice mw-collapsible innercollapse wpb wpb-table"><tbody><tr class="wpb-header"><td class="wpb-header-icon"><span typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Zuni-girl-with-jar2.png" class="mw-file-description"><img alt="WikiProject icon" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/d9/Zuni-girl-with-jar2.png/14px-Zuni-girl-with-jar2.png" decoding="async" width="14" height="25" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/d9/Zuni-girl-with-jar2.png/21px-Zuni-girl-with-jar2.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/d9/Zuni-girl-with-jar2.png/28px-Zuni-girl-with-jar2.png 2x" data-file-width="800" data-file-height="1404"/></a></span></td><td class="wpb-header-combined"><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Ethnic_groups" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Ethnic groups">Ethnic groups</a> </td></tr><tr><td class="mbox-text wpb-main" colspan="2"><table><tbody><tr><td class="mbox-image wpb-image"><span typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Zuni-girl-with-jar2.png" class="mw-file-description"><img alt="WikiProject icon" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/d9/Zuni-girl-with-jar2.png/50px-Zuni-girl-with-jar2.png" decoding="async" width="50" height="88" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/d9/Zuni-girl-with-jar2.png/75px-Zuni-girl-with-jar2.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/d9/Zuni-girl-with-jar2.png/100px-Zuni-girl-with-jar2.png 2x" data-file-width="800" data-file-height="1404"/></a></span></td><td class="mbox-text">This template is within the scope of <b><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Ethnic_groups" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Ethnic groups">WikiProject Ethnic groups</a></b>, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of articles relating to <a href="/wiki/Ethnic_group" class="mw-redirect" title="Ethnic group">ethnic groups</a>, nationalities, and other cultural identities on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Ethnic_groups" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Ethnic groups">the discussion</a> and see a list of open tasks.<span class="metadata wpb-metadata"><span class="wpb-project">Ethnic groups</span><span class="wpb-project_link">Wikipedia:WikiProject Ethnic groups</span><span class="wpb-banner_name">Template:WikiProject Ethnic groups</span><span class="wpb-assessment_cat">Ethnic groups articles</span></span></td><td class="mbox-empty-cell"></td></tr><tr><td colspan="3" style="padding:0"><table class="mw-collapsible mw-collapsed" style="background:transparent;width:100%"><tbody><tr><th style="text-align:left;padding:0.2em 2px 0.2em 0">WikiProject Ethnic groups open tasks:</th></tr><tr><td style="text-align:left;padding:5px;background-color:white;border:1px solid #c0c090;margin-top:5px"> <p><span typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Clipboard.svg" class="mw-file-description"><img src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/1/1f/Clipboard.svg/35px-Clipboard.svg.png" decoding="async" width="35" height="35" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/1/1f/Clipboard.svg/53px-Clipboard.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/1/1f/Clipboard.svg/70px-Clipboard.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="48" data-file-height="48"/></a></span> Here are some open <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Ethnic_groups" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Ethnic groups">WikiProject Ethnic groups</a> tasks: </p> <ul><li>Meta-tasks: <ul><li>Place the <span class="nowrap">{{</span><a href="/wiki/Template:Ethnic_groups" class="mw-redirect" title="Template:Ethnic groups">Ethnic groups</a><span class="nowrap">}}</span> template <b>on the talk page</b> of articles within the scope of this project.</li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Ethnic_groups/Archive_11#How_does_Wikipedia_rate_the_.22importance.22_of_an_ethnic_group.3F" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Ethnic groups/Archive 11">Resolve the disparity in importance rankings among different ethnic groups</a></li></ul></li> <li>Articles about ethnic groups that currently have issues needing resolution: <ul><li><a href="/wiki/Category:Unassessed_Ethnic_groups_articles" title="Category:Unassessed Ethnic groups articles">Category:Unassessed Ethnic groups articles</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Category:Ethnic_groups_articles_needing_merge_action" title="Category:Ethnic groups articles needing merge action">Category:Ethnic groups articles needing merge action</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Category:Ethnic_groups_articles_needing_infoboxes" title="Category:Ethnic groups articles needing infoboxes">Category:Ethnic groups articles needing infoboxes</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Category:Ethnic_groups_articles_needing_reassessment" title="Category:Ethnic groups articles needing reassessment">Category:Ethnic groups articles needing reassessment</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Category:Ethnic_groups_articles_needing_attention" title="Category:Ethnic groups articles needing attention">Category:Ethnic groups articles needing attention</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Iyer" title="Iyer">Iyer</a></li> <li><b><a href="/wiki/Peruvian_people" class="mw-redirect" title="Peruvian people">Peruvian people</a></b></li></ul></li> <li>Start an article: <ul><li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Ethnic_groups/Article_requests" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Ethnic groups/Article requests">Wikipedia:WikiProject Ethnic groups/Article requests</a></li></ul></li></ul> <p>Feel free to <a href="/wiki/Template:WikiProject_Ethnic_groups_tasks" title="Template:WikiProject Ethnic groups tasks">edit this list</a> or <a href="/wiki/Template_talk:WikiProject_Ethnic_groups_tasks" title="Template talk:WikiProject Ethnic groups tasks">discuss these tasks</a>. </p> </td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr></tbody></table> <meta property="mw:PageProp/toc"/> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Mongolic_or_Turkic?" data-mw-thread-id="h-Mongolic_or_Turkic?-2010-02-28T21:36:00.000Z"><span id="Mongolic_or_Turkic.3F"></span><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Mongolic_or_Turkic?-2010-02-28T21:36:00.000Z"></span>Mongolic or Turkic?<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Mongolic_or_Turkic?-2010-02-28T21:36:00.000Z"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Template_talk:Mongol_ethnic_groups&action=edit&section=1" title="Edit section: Mongolic or Turkic?"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-83.84.148.156-2010-02-28T21:36:00.000Z-Mongolic_or_Turkic?"></span>There are some Turkic (and Tungusic) tribes listed here as Mongol tribes. This is misleading. Are you sure they belong in this list? <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">—Preceding <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Signatures" title="Wikipedia:Signatures">unsigned</a> comment added by <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/83.84.148.156" title="Special:Contributions/83.84.148.156">83.84.148.156</a> (<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:83.84.148.156&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User talk:83.84.148.156 (page does not exist)">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:Mongol_ethnic_groups#c-83.84.148.156-2010-02-28T21:36:00.000Z-Mongolic_or_Turkic?" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:36, 28 February 2010 (UTC)</a></span><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-83.84.148.156-2010-02-28T21:36:00.000Z-Mongolic_or_Turkic?"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-83.84.148.156-2010-02-28T21:36:00.000Z-Mongolic_or_Turkic?"></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Are_they_yastan?" data-mw-thread-id="h-Are_they_yastan?-2007-12-17T11:51:00.000Z"><span id="Are_they_yastan.3F"></span><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Are_they_yastan?-2007-12-17T11:51:00.000Z"></span>Are they yastan?<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Are_they_yastan?-2007-12-17T11:51:00.000Z"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Template_talk:Mongol_ethnic_groups&action=edit&section=2" title="Edit section: Are they yastan?"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Gantuya_eng-2007-12-17T11:51:00.000Z-Are_they_yastan?"></span>The subdivisions of Hazara, Aimek and Mughal: Are those subdivisions yastan or clans or tribes? Is their a difference between the terms "yastan" and "tribe"? <a href="/wiki/User:Gantuya_eng" title="User:Gantuya eng">Gantuya eng</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Gantuya_eng" title="User talk:Gantuya eng">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:Mongol_ethnic_groups#c-Gantuya_eng-2007-12-17T11:51:00.000Z-Are_they_yastan?" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">11:51, 17 December 2007 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Gantuya_eng-2007-12-17T11:51:00.000Z-Are_they_yastan?"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Gantuya_eng-2007-12-17T11:51:00.000Z-Are_they_yastan?"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Dagvadorj-2007-12-17T15:09:00.000Z-Gantuya_eng-2007-12-17T11:51:00.000Z"></span>For Moghul, it is clan and for the other 2 it is tribe. I nonincluded them in display, since I got no sufficient information. There's no difference between "yastan" and "tribe". But according to classification by B.Renchin on Mongolia's yastan, he, i guess, didn't rely on the Northern Yuan tribes or tümen, by including Kazakh and Tsaatan. <a href="/wiki/User:Dagvadorj" title="User:Dagvadorj">Dagvadorj</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Dagvadorj" title="User talk:Dagvadorj">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:Mongol_ethnic_groups#c-Dagvadorj-2007-12-17T15:09:00.000Z-Gantuya_eng-2007-12-17T11:51:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:09, 17 December 2007 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Dagvadorj-2007-12-17T15:09:00.000Z-Gantuya_eng-2007-12-17T11:51:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Dagvadorj-2007-12-17T15:09:00.000Z-Gantuya_eng-2007-12-17T11:51:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Gantuya_eng-2007-12-17T15:26:00.000Z-Dagvadorj-2007-12-17T15:09:00.000Z"></span>But Khalha is also a yastan, but it would be too far pitched to call it a "tribe". There's lots of confusion between the terms "ugsaatan", "undesten", "yastan", "aimag", "omog", "obog", "yas", "elken"... <a href="/wiki/User:Gantuya_eng" title="User:Gantuya eng">Gantuya eng</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Gantuya_eng" title="User talk:Gantuya eng">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:Mongol_ethnic_groups#c-Gantuya_eng-2007-12-17T15:26:00.000Z-Dagvadorj-2007-12-17T15:09:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:26, 17 December 2007 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Gantuya_eng-2007-12-17T15:26:00.000Z-Dagvadorj-2007-12-17T15:09:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Gantuya_eng-2007-12-17T15:26:00.000Z-Dagvadorj-2007-12-17T15:09:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Gantuya_eng-2007-12-17T15:30:00.000Z-Gantuya_eng-2007-12-17T15:26:00.000Z"></span>Are the <a href="/w/index.php?title=Barlas_Mughal&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Barlas Mughal (page does not exist)">Barlas Mughal</a> related to Tamerlane? <a href="/wiki/User:Gantuya_eng" title="User:Gantuya eng">Gantuya eng</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Gantuya_eng" title="User talk:Gantuya eng">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:Mongol_ethnic_groups#c-Gantuya_eng-2007-12-17T15:30:00.000Z-Gantuya_eng-2007-12-17T15:26:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:30, 17 December 2007 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Gantuya_eng-2007-12-17T15:30:00.000Z-Gantuya_eng-2007-12-17T15:26:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Gantuya_eng-2007-12-17T15:30:00.000Z-Gantuya_eng-2007-12-17T15:26:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="not_tribes" data-mw-thread-id="h-not_tribes-2007-12-18T09:01:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-not_tribes-2007-12-18T09:01:00.000Z"></span>not tribes<span data-mw-comment-end="h-not_tribes-2007-12-18T09:01:00.000Z"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Template_talk:Mongol_ethnic_groups&action=edit&section=3" title="Edit section: not tribes"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Gantuya_eng-2007-12-18T09:01:00.000Z-not_tribes"></span>I really can't agree with the term "tribes" at least in this template. Such groups like Khalha, Buryat, Kazakh can't be called "tribes" although they are yastan. So let's use the term "ethnic group" instead. <a href="/wiki/User:Gantuya_eng" title="User:Gantuya eng">Gantuya eng</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Gantuya_eng" title="User talk:Gantuya eng">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:Mongol_ethnic_groups#c-Gantuya_eng-2007-12-18T09:01:00.000Z-not_tribes" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">09:01, 18 December 2007 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Gantuya_eng-2007-12-18T09:01:00.000Z-not_tribes"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Gantuya_eng-2007-12-18T09:01:00.000Z-not_tribes"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Karakalpaks" data-mw-thread-id="h-Karakalpaks-2009-10-31T18:59:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Karakalpaks-2009-10-31T18:59:00.000Z"></span><a href="/wiki/Karakalpaks" title="Karakalpaks">Karakalpaks</a><span data-mw-comment-end="h-Karakalpaks-2009-10-31T18:59:00.000Z"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Template_talk:Mongol_ethnic_groups&action=edit&section=4" title="Edit section: Karakalpaks"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Bogomolov.PL-2009-10-31T18:59:00.000Z-Karakalpaks"></span>Why this people was included as a Mongols? This people is close related to the Kazakhs, not Mongols. <a href="/wiki/User:Bogomolov.PL" title="User:Bogomolov.PL">Bogomolov.PL</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Bogomolov.PL" title="User talk:Bogomolov.PL">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:Mongol_ethnic_groups#c-Bogomolov.PL-2009-10-31T18:59:00.000Z-Karakalpaks" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:59, 31 October 2009 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Bogomolov.PL-2009-10-31T18:59:00.000Z-Karakalpaks"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Bogomolov.PL-2009-10-31T18:59:00.000Z-Karakalpaks"></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Not_really_Mongols" data-mw-thread-id="h-Not_really_Mongols-2009-11-15T23:46:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Not_really_Mongols-2009-11-15T23:46:00.000Z"></span>Not really Mongols<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Not_really_Mongols-2009-11-15T23:46:00.000Z"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Template_talk:Mongol_ethnic_groups&action=edit&section=5" title="Edit section: Not really Mongols"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Ufwuct-2009-11-15T23:46:00.000Z-Not_really_Mongols"></span>There are several more groups on this template that aren't really Mongols. Some of them are not a Mongol people and others don't even speak a Mongol language. Rather than put dispute or dubious or citation needed tags on them, which would appear in every page, I'll just delete them and post them here. These are: </p> <ul><li>Altay - Turkic people, Turkic language, mostly live in Russia</li> <li>Ewenkis (Evenks) - Tungusic people, Tungusic language, almost all in either Russia or China, and are a Tungusic people in these areas</li> <li>Dukha - speak a Turkic language, not specified if they are Mongol, but they are raising reindeer in the taiga, a few live in Mongolia</li></ul> <p>Some of these groups can be found in Mongolia, but that wouldn't make their ethnic group a Mongol ethnic group any more than, say, 100 French people living in Mongolia would mean French people are a Mongol people. If you intended this template to mean something else, please rename it. Thanks. <a href="/wiki/User:Ufwuct" title="User:Ufwuct">Ufwuct</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Ufwuct" title="User talk:Ufwuct">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:Mongol_ethnic_groups#c-Ufwuct-2009-11-15T23:46:00.000Z-Not_really_Mongols" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:46, 15 November 2009 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Ufwuct-2009-11-15T23:46:00.000Z-Not_really_Mongols"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Ufwuct-2009-11-15T23:46:00.000Z-Not_really_Mongols"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Dagvadorj-2011-05-25T11:28:00.000Z-Ufwuct-2009-11-15T23:46:00.000Z"></span>As for the French, they would not be included because they are not indigenous to Mongolia proper, duh! <a href="/wiki/User:Dagvadorj" title="User:Dagvadorj">Dagvadorj</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Dagvadorj" title="User talk:Dagvadorj">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:Mongol_ethnic_groups#c-Dagvadorj-2011-05-25T11:28:00.000Z-Ufwuct-2009-11-15T23:46:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">11:28, 25 May 2011 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Dagvadorj-2011-05-25T11:28:00.000Z-Ufwuct-2009-11-15T23:46:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Dagvadorj-2011-05-25T11:28:00.000Z-Ufwuct-2009-11-15T23:46:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Tuvans" data-mw-thread-id="h-Tuvans-2010-04-09T13:31:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Tuvans-2010-04-09T13:31:00.000Z"></span>Tuvans<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Tuvans-2010-04-09T13:31:00.000Z"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Template_talk:Mongol_ethnic_groups&action=edit&section=6" title="Edit section: Tuvans"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><a href="/wiki/Tuvans" title="Tuvans"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-193.140.180.223-2010-04-09T13:31:00.000Z-Tuvans"></span>Tuvans</a> are Turkic people. --<a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/193.140.180.223" title="Special:Contributions/193.140.180.223">193.140.180.223</a> (<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:193.140.180.223&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User talk:193.140.180.223 (page does not exist)">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:Mongol_ethnic_groups#c-193.140.180.223-2010-04-09T13:31:00.000Z-Tuvans" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">13:31, 9 April 2010 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-193.140.180.223-2010-04-09T13:31:00.000Z-Tuvans"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-193.140.180.223-2010-04-09T13:31:00.000Z-Tuvans"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-虞海-2011-08-23T13:06:00.000Z-193.140.180.223-2010-04-09T13:31:00.000Z"></span>Yep. So what? ––<a href="/wiki/User:%E8%99%9E%E6%B5%B7" title="User:虞海"><span lang="zh-Hant">虞海</span> (<span class="Unicode">Yú Hǎi</span>)</a> <big><a href="/wiki/User_talk:%E8%99%9E%E6%B5%B7#top" title="User talk:虞海"><span class="Unicode">✍</span></a></big> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:Mongol_ethnic_groups#c-虞海-2011-08-23T13:06:00.000Z-193.140.180.223-2010-04-09T13:31:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">13:06, 23 August 2011 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-虞海-2011-08-23T13:06:00.000Z-193.140.180.223-2010-04-09T13:31:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-虞海-2011-08-23T13:06:00.000Z-193.140.180.223-2010-04-09T13:31:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Links_to_some_ethnic_groups_are_removed" data-mw-thread-id="h-Links_to_some_ethnic_groups_are_removed-2011-05-23T14:06:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Links_to_some_ethnic_groups_are_removed-2011-05-23T14:06:00.000Z"></span>Links to some ethnic groups are removed<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Links_to_some_ethnic_groups_are_removed-2011-05-23T14:06:00.000Z"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Template_talk:Mongol_ethnic_groups&action=edit&section=7" title="Edit section: Links to some ethnic groups are removed"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Dagvadorj-2011-05-23T14:06:00.000Z-Links_to_some_ethnic_groups_are_removed"></span>Seems like links to the articles about the Daurs and Bonans and maybe some other stuff has been removed. Would the user who removed it, please provide us about the causes? Otherwise, the links will be re-added. <small><span class="autosigned">—Preceding <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Signatures" title="Wikipedia:Signatures">unsigned</a> comment added by <a href="/wiki/User:Dagvadorj" title="User:Dagvadorj">Dagvadorj</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Dagvadorj" title="User talk:Dagvadorj">talk</a> • <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Dagvadorj" title="Special:Contributions/Dagvadorj">contribs</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:Mongol_ethnic_groups#c-Dagvadorj-2011-05-23T14:06:00.000Z-Links_to_some_ethnic_groups_are_removed" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">14:06, 23 May 2011 (UTC)</a></span></small><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Dagvadorj-2011-05-23T14:06:00.000Z-Links_to_some_ethnic_groups_are_removed"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Dagvadorj-2011-05-23T14:06:00.000Z-Links_to_some_ethnic_groups_are_removed"></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Scope_of_the_template" data-mw-thread-id="h-Scope_of_the_template-2015-03-10T13:31:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Scope_of_the_template-2015-03-10T13:31:00.000Z"></span>Scope of the template<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Scope_of_the_template-2015-03-10T13:31:00.000Z"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Template_talk:Mongol_ethnic_groups&action=edit&section=8" title="Edit section: Scope of the template"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Evecurid-2015-03-10T13:31:00.000Z-Scope_of_the_template"></span>I think we need to decide the actual scope of this template, i.e. whether it is a representation of the <i>Mongolic</i> ethnic groups or the <i>Mongolian</i> ethnic groups. If it is a representation of the former, then other non-Mongol ethnic groups should be removed from this template; if it is a representation of the latter, then we need to list the Mongols as an ethnic group just like the other Mongolic groups such as the Khitans, not in so many categories such as "Eastern Mongols" and "Northern Mongols" etc. --<a href="/wiki/User:Evecurid" title="User:Evecurid">Evecurid</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Evecurid" title="User talk:Evecurid">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:Mongol_ethnic_groups#c-Evecurid-2015-03-10T13:31:00.000Z-Scope_of_the_template" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">13:31, 10 March 2015 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Evecurid-2015-03-10T13:31:00.000Z-Scope_of_the_template"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Evecurid-2015-03-10T13:31:00.000Z-Scope_of_the_template"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Evecurid-2015-03-11T14:54:00.000Z-Evecurid-2015-03-10T13:31:00.000Z"></span>Since almost all later major changes were made by blocked Ancientsteppe or one of his sock-puppets, I have reverted to the stable version before his edits. --<a href="/wiki/User:Evecurid" title="User:Evecurid">Evecurid</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Evecurid" title="User talk:Evecurid">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:Mongol_ethnic_groups#c-Evecurid-2015-03-11T14:54:00.000Z-Evecurid-2015-03-10T13:31:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">14:54, 11 March 2015 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Evecurid-2015-03-11T14:54:00.000Z-Evecurid-2015-03-10T13:31:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Evecurid-2015-03-11T14:54:00.000Z-Evecurid-2015-03-10T13:31:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Cartakes-2015-06-30T15:56:00.000Z-Scope_of_the_template"></span>By the way, terms such as the "Northern Mongols" are very ambiguous. For example, the book "Nationalism and Revolution in Mongolia" (p7), "March of Central Asia" (p52) and "Imperial Rule" (p194) all consider the "Northern Mongols" to mean the Khalkha Mongols rather than the Buryats. Now it uses the the classification in the earlier versions of the template instead. --<a href="/wiki/User:Cartakes" title="User:Cartakes">Cartakes</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Cartakes" title="User talk:Cartakes">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:Mongol_ethnic_groups#c-Cartakes-2015-06-30T15:56:00.000Z-Scope_of_the_template" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:56, 30 June 2015 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Cartakes-2015-06-30T15:56:00.000Z-Scope_of_the_template"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Cartakes-2015-06-30T15:56:00.000Z-Scope_of_the_template"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-G_Purevdorj-2015-06-30T20:54:00.000Z-Cartakes-2015-06-30T15:56:00.000Z"></span>One question: <b>Is it better to order Mongolian tribes according to tribal affiliation, linguistic affiliation of geographic position?</b> I do understand that geography is somewhat impeccable and easy to handle, but it destroys groups such as the Western Mongols who usually identify as Oirat. The template suggested <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Template:Mongol_ethnic_groups&oldid=669287004">here</a> is quite interesting and does not deserve to be abandoned without discussion. Linguistically, "Eastern" and "Southern" here is still extremely problematic, and I would suggest a linguistic distinction between Eastern (Khorchin etc.) and Central (Khalkha, Chakhar etc.) groups following Janhunen 2003 on Mongol dialects in his most abstracted reading. Furthermore, I don't currently understand your motivation for not listing Inner Mongolian groups such as the Abaga at all. And I don't see a point in writing "people" or "Mongols" in some list items, but not in others. A list needs to be consistent as far as convention is concerned (and even more so than the somewhat inconsistent article naming for which - in some cases - one may have motivations). <a href="/wiki/User:G_Purevdorj" title="User:G Purevdorj">G Purevdorj</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:G_Purevdorj" title="User talk:G Purevdorj">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:Mongol_ethnic_groups#c-G_Purevdorj-2015-06-30T20:54:00.000Z-Cartakes-2015-06-30T15:56:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:54, 30 June 2015 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-G_Purevdorj-2015-06-30T20:54:00.000Z-Cartakes-2015-06-30T15:56:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-G_Purevdorj-2015-06-30T20:54:00.000Z-Cartakes-2015-06-30T15:56:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Cartakes-2015-06-30T21:30:00.000Z-G_Purevdorj-2015-06-30T20:54:00.000Z"></span>The problem however is that the version mentioned <a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Template:Mongol_ethnic_groups&oldid=669287004">[1]</a> is in fact itself a version made without any discussion, not the opposite. It was first made by blocked <a href="/wiki/User:Ancientsteppe" title="User:Ancientsteppe">User:Ancientsteppe</a> or one of his sock-puppets, who changed the classification from "In Mongolia/China/Russia etc" to "Northern/Southern/Eastern/Western Mongols etc" (see the version right before Ancientsteppe'edits (<a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Template:Mongol_ethnic_groups&oldid=553824964">[2]</a>) without discussion. I agree that terms such as "Western Mongols" would work, but not "Northern Mongols" etc, which are ambiguous. As for Inner Mongolian groups etc you mentioned, I was in fact simply using the version right before IP 91.200.122.230's edits (see <a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Template:Mongol_ethnic_groups&oldid=667026489">[3]</a>) with the section "Overview" added on the top with absolutely nothing changed, so I believe there must be some misunderstandings here, since it was basically a revert rather than changing to a version completely made by myself. The group listings edited by IP 91.200.122.230 obviously would not work, since even peoples such as Xiongnu are listed as Mongolic peoples in the template, but this is clearly never confirmed. If IP user wants to change to a version under different classifications from the current one, he/she needs to discuss first, since the current classification is the one that existed before Ancientsteppe's undiscussed changes, *as well as* the classification made by the original creator of this template (i.e. User:Dagvadorj, see <a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Template:Mongol_ethnic_groups&oldid=171638936">[4]</a> and <a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Template:Mongol_ethnic_groups&oldid=171882989">[5]</a>), not the opposite. --<a href="/wiki/User:Cartakes" title="User:Cartakes">Cartakes</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Cartakes" title="User talk:Cartakes">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:Mongol_ethnic_groups#c-Cartakes-2015-06-30T21:30:00.000Z-G_Purevdorj-2015-06-30T20:54:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:30, 30 June 2015 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Cartakes-2015-06-30T21:30:00.000Z-G_Purevdorj-2015-06-30T20:54:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Cartakes-2015-06-30T21:30:00.000Z-G_Purevdorj-2015-06-30T20:54:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-G_Purevdorj-2015-06-30T22:02:00.000Z-Cartakes-2015-06-30T21:30:00.000Z"></span>Yeah, the glorious Proto-Mongolic history is of course a problem. "Unidentified groups possibly relatable to Mongols" might be a good label, though this might not merit inclusion into the template. Khitan and Tabghach ARE proven to be Proto-Mongolic (not beyond any doubt in the latter case, but to the extent that it's the best explanation of facts that we have, and a fairly good one at that), so including them might be appropriate, right? On the next point: Western AND Northern are fairly unproblematic. (Thinking of it, I do remember a use of “Northern Mongol(ian)s” that pertains to the Khalkhas in linguistic literature from the first decade of the 20th century. In contemporary linguistic literature, this use seems to be outdated, and I would suggest ignoring it. <b>If</b>, of course, we speak in a dichotomy of Inner and Outer Mongolia, <b>then</b> a North/South distinction that renders the Khalkhas North is OK, e.g. ar vs. övör mongolchuud, but this only derives from context. You wouldn’t talk like that in a classification of all Mongolic tribes or peoples.) Southern and Eastern are not, but I would like to go for a revision along the lines Central Mongolian, Eastern Mongolian and Southern Mongolic (~Shirongolic). I could execute that and provide sources, if needed. Khamnigan, Darkhat and Ordos will be a problem in any linguistic approach, and a cultural approach would require groups to be overlapping: Khamnigan dialect, for instance, has strong Khalkha and Buryat features.) The Afghan and Pakistan tribes can perhaps form a unit. Dagur requires a branch of its own, too. The Mongols in Southern China that don't speak any Mongolic anymore would perhaps have to be sui generis as well. What about such an approach? <a href="/wiki/User:G_Purevdorj" title="User:G Purevdorj">G Purevdorj</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:G_Purevdorj" title="User talk:G Purevdorj">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:Mongol_ethnic_groups#c-G_Purevdorj-2015-06-30T22:02:00.000Z-Cartakes-2015-06-30T21:30:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:02, 30 June 2015 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-G_Purevdorj-2015-06-30T22:02:00.000Z-Cartakes-2015-06-30T21:30:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-G_Purevdorj-2015-06-30T22:02:00.000Z-Cartakes-2015-06-30T21:30:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-G_Purevdorj-2015-06-30T22:06:00.000Z-G_Purevdorj-2015-06-30T22:02:00.000Z"></span>I do admit that a merely geographical approach is less problematic in some details, but I think it is less informative, too. <a href="/wiki/User:G_Purevdorj" title="User:G Purevdorj">G Purevdorj</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:G_Purevdorj" title="User talk:G Purevdorj">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:Mongol_ethnic_groups#c-G_Purevdorj-2015-06-30T22:06:00.000Z-G_Purevdorj-2015-06-30T22:02:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:06, 30 June 2015 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-G_Purevdorj-2015-06-30T22:06:00.000Z-G_Purevdorj-2015-06-30T22:02:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-G_Purevdorj-2015-06-30T22:06:00.000Z-G_Purevdorj-2015-06-30T22:02:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Cartakes-2015-06-30T22:16:00.000Z-G_Purevdorj-2015-06-30T22:06:00.000Z"></span>I think you may be correct. I in fact have no strong personal preference that the geographical approach must be used in this template, as long as there is in fact a discussion that leads to consensus before such major changes. The changes made by blocked User:Ancientsteppe and IP 91.200.122.230 obviously never discussed before the changes took place. --<a href="/wiki/User:Cartakes" title="User:Cartakes">Cartakes</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Cartakes" title="User talk:Cartakes">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:Mongol_ethnic_groups#c-Cartakes-2015-06-30T22:16:00.000Z-G_Purevdorj-2015-06-30T22:06:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:16, 30 June 2015 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Cartakes-2015-06-30T22:16:00.000Z-G_Purevdorj-2015-06-30T22:06:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Cartakes-2015-06-30T22:16:00.000Z-G_Purevdorj-2015-06-30T22:06:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Cartakes-2015-06-30T22:43:00.000Z-G_Purevdorj-2015-06-30T22:02:00.000Z"></span>As for a classification itself, I think it will be great to find a reliable source that provides such classifications. It will be easier to get to a good classification and consensus with sources. But if such a source cannot be found, then we'd try to clean them up by ourselves. --<a href="/wiki/User:Cartakes" title="User:Cartakes">Cartakes</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Cartakes" title="User talk:Cartakes">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:Mongol_ethnic_groups#c-Cartakes-2015-06-30T22:43:00.000Z-G_Purevdorj-2015-06-30T22:02:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:43, 30 June 2015 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Cartakes-2015-06-30T22:43:00.000Z-G_Purevdorj-2015-06-30T22:02:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Cartakes-2015-06-30T22:43:00.000Z-G_Purevdorj-2015-06-30T22:02:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl>    </div><noscript><img src="https://login.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:CentralAutoLogin/start?type=1x1&useformat=desktop" alt="" width="1" height="1" style="border: none; position: absolute;"></noscript> <div class="printfooter" data-nosnippet="">Retrieved from "<a dir="ltr" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Template_talk:Mongol_ethnic_groups&oldid=1189475699">https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Template_talk:Mongol_ethnic_groups&oldid=1189475699</a>"</div></div> <div id="catlinks" class="catlinks" data-mw="interface"><div id="mw-normal-catlinks" class="mw-normal-catlinks"><a href="/wiki/Help:Category" title="Help:Category">Categories</a>: <ul><li><a href="/wiki/Category:Template-Class_China-related_articles" title="Category:Template-Class China-related articles">Template-Class China-related articles</a></li><li><a href="/wiki/Category:NA-importance_China-related_articles" title="Category:NA-importance China-related articles">NA-importance China-related articles</a></li><li><a href="/wiki/Category:Template-Class_China-related_articles_of_NA-importance" title="Category:Template-Class China-related articles of NA-importance">Template-Class China-related articles of NA-importance</a></li><li><a href="/wiki/Category:WikiProject_China_articles" title="Category:WikiProject China articles">WikiProject China articles</a></li><li><a href="/wiki/Category:Template-Class_Mongols_articles" title="Category:Template-Class Mongols articles">Template-Class Mongols articles</a></li><li><a href="/wiki/Category:NA-importance_Mongols_articles" title="Category:NA-importance Mongols articles">NA-importance Mongols articles</a></li><li><a href="/wiki/Category:WikiProject_Mongols_articles" title="Category:WikiProject Mongols articles">WikiProject Mongols articles</a></li><li><a href="/wiki/Category:NA-Class_Ethnic_groups_articles" title="Category:NA-Class Ethnic groups articles">NA-Class Ethnic groups articles</a></li><li><a href="/wiki/Category:NA-importance_Ethnic_groups_articles" title="Category:NA-importance Ethnic groups articles">NA-importance Ethnic groups articles</a></li><li><a href="/wiki/Category:WikiProject_Ethnic_groups_articles" title="Category:WikiProject Ethnic groups articles">WikiProject Ethnic groups articles</a></li></ul></div></div> </div> </main> </div> <div class="mw-footer-container"> <footer id="footer" class="mw-footer" > <ul id="footer-info"> <li id="footer-info-lastmod"> This page was last edited on 12 December 2023, at 02:15<span class="anonymous-show"> (UTC)</span>.</li> <li id="footer-info-copyright">Text is available under the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Text_of_the_Creative_Commons_Attribution-ShareAlike_4.0_International_License" title="Wikipedia:Text of the Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike 4.0 International License">Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike 4.0 License</a>; additional terms may apply. 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