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role="presentation" class="tmbox tmbox-notice talkheader plainlinks" id="talkheader" style="border-collapse: separate;"><tbody><tr> <td style="border-bottom: 1px solid #c0c090; font-weight: bold;">This is the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Talk_page_guidelines" title="Wikipedia:Talk page guidelines">talk page</a> for discussing improvements to the <a href="/wiki/Al-Shifa_Hospital_siege" title="Al-Shifa Hospital siege">Al-Shifa Hospital siege</a> article.<br> This is <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:What_Wikipedia_is_not#FORUM" title="Wikipedia:What Wikipedia is not">not a forum</a> for general discussion of the article's subject.</td> </tr> <tr> <td> <div class="talkheader-body"> <div class="talkheader-help"> <ul><li>Put new text under old text. <strong><a href="/wiki/Special:NewSection/Talk:Al-Shifa_Hospital_siege" title="Special:NewSection/Talk:Al-Shifa Hospital siege">Click here to start a new topic.</a></strong></li> <li>New to Wikipedia? Welcome! <a href="/wiki/Help:Introduction" title="Help:Introduction">Learn to edit</a>; <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Questions" title="Wikipedia:Questions">get help</a>.</li></ul> </div> <div class="talkheader-policies"> <ul><li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Assume_good_faith" title="Wikipedia:Assume good faith">Assume good faith</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Civility" title="Wikipedia:Civility">Be polite</a> and <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:No_personal_attacks" title="Wikipedia:No personal attacks">avoid personal attacks</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Please_do_not_bite_the_newcomers" title="Wikipedia:Please do not bite the newcomers">Be welcoming to newcomers</a></li> <li>Seek <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_requests" title="Wikipedia:Dispute resolution requests">dispute resolution</a> if needed</li></ul> </div><div class="talkheader-policies"> <div><b>Article policies</b> <ul><li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Neutral_point_of_view" title="Wikipedia:Neutral point of view">Neutral point of view</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:No_original_research" title="Wikipedia:No original research">No original research</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Verifiability" title="Wikipedia:Verifiability">Verifiability</a></li></ul> </div> </div> </div> </td> </tr><tr><td style="border-top: 1px solid #c0c090; padding: 1px 3px;"><span class="plainlinks"><i>Find sources:</i> <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://www.google.com/search?as_eq=wikipedia&q=%22Al-Shifa+Hospital+siege%22">Google</a> (<a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://www.google.com/search?tbs=bks:1&q=%22Al-Shifa+Hospital+siege%22+-wikipedia">books</a> <b>·</b> <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://www.google.com/search?tbm=nws&q=%22Al-Shifa+Hospital+siege%22+-wikipedia&tbs=ar:1">news</a> <b>·</b> <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=%22Al-Shifa+Hospital+siege%22">scholar</a> <b>·</b> <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://www.google.com/search?safe=off&tbs=sur:fmc&tbm=isch&q=%22Al-Shifa+Hospital+siege%22+-site:wikipedia.org+-site:wikimedia.org">free images</a> <b>·</b> <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://www.google.com/custom?hl=en&cx=007734830908295939403%3Agalkqgoksq0&cof=FORID%3A13%3BAH%3Aleft%3BCX%3AWikipedia%2520Reference%2520Search&q=%22Al-Shifa+Hospital+siege%22">WP refs</a>) <b>·</b> <span title="Free English newspaper sources" style="border-bottom: 1px dotted;"><a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Free_English_newspaper_sources">FENS</a></span> <b>·</b> <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://www.jstor.org/action/doBasicSearch?Query=%22Al-Shifa+Hospital+siege%22&acc=on&wc=on">JSTOR</a> <b>·</b> <span title="The Wikipedia Library" style="border-bottom: 1px dotted;"><a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://wikipedialibrary.wmflabs.org/search/?q=%22Al-Shifa+Hospital+siege%22">TWL</a></span></span></td></tr><tr><td style="border-top: 1px solid #c0c090; padding: 1px 3px;"><b><a href="/wiki/Help:Archiving_a_talk_page" title="Help:Archiving a talk page">Archives</a>:</b> <a href="/wiki/Talk:Al-Shifa_Hospital_siege/Archive_1" title="Talk:Al-Shifa Hospital siege/Archive 1">1</a>, <a href="/wiki/Talk:Al-Shifa_Hospital_siege/Archive_2" title="Talk:Al-Shifa Hospital siege/Archive 2">2</a><span style="position: relative; top: 2px; float: right; font-size: 90%; margin-left: 1em;"><style data-mw-deduplicate="TemplateStyles:r1038841319">.mw-parser-output .tooltip-dotted{border-bottom:1px dotted;cursor:help}</style><span class="rt-commentedText tooltip tooltip-dotted" title="Discussions with timestamps are automatically archived by Lowercase sigmabot III after 14 days of inactivity when more than 5 threads are present.">Auto-archiving period</span>: <b>14 days</b> <span typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/Help:Archiving_a_talk_page#Automated_archiving" title="Help:Archiving a talk page"><img alt="" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/1/1d/Information_icon4.svg/16px-Information_icon4.svg.png" decoding="async" width="16" height="16" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/1/1d/Information_icon4.svg/24px-Information_icon4.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/1/1d/Information_icon4.svg/32px-Information_icon4.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="620" data-file-height="620"></a></span></span></td> </tr><tr><td style="border-top: 1px solid #c0c090; padding: 0;"><div> <div class="mw-inputbox-centered" style=""><form name="searchbox" class="searchbox mw-inputbox-form-inline" action="/wiki/Special:Search"><div class="cdx-text-input"><input class="mw-searchInput searchboxInput cdx-text-input__input" name="search" placeholder="" size="50" dir="ltr"></div><input type="hidden" value="Talk:Al-Shifa Hospital siege/" name="prefix"> <input type="submit" name="fulltext" value="Search archives" class="cdx-button"><input type="hidden" value="Search" name="fulltext"></form></div> </div></td> </tr> </tbody></table> <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1237879475"><table class="plainlinks tmbox tmbox-notice" role="presentation"><tbody><tr><td class="mbox-image"><span typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Clipboard.svg" class="mw-file-description" title="Articles for deletion"><img alt="Articles for deletion" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/1/1f/Clipboard.svg/35px-Clipboard.svg.png" decoding="async" width="35" height="35" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/1/1f/Clipboard.svg/53px-Clipboard.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/1/1f/Clipboard.svg/70px-Clipboard.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="48" data-file-height="48"></a></span></td><td class="mbox-text">This article was nominated for <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Deletion_policy" title="Wikipedia:Deletion policy">deletion</a> on 13 November 2023. The result of <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Al-Shifa_Hospital_siege" title="Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Al-Shifa Hospital siege">the discussion</a> was <b>speedy keep</b>.</td></tr></tbody></table> <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1237879475"><table class="plainlinks tmbox tmbox-move" role="presentation"><tbody><tr><td class="mbox-image"><span typeof="mw:File"><span><img alt="" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/e/e0/Merge-split-transwiki_default.svg/36px-Merge-split-transwiki_default.svg.png" decoding="async" width="36" height="40" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/e/e0/Merge-split-transwiki_default.svg/54px-Merge-split-transwiki_default.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/e/e0/Merge-split-transwiki_default.svg/72px-Merge-split-transwiki_default.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="36" data-file-height="40"></span></span></td><td class="mbox-text">On 15 November 2023, it was proposed that this article be <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Requested_moves" title="Wikipedia:Requested moves">moved</a>. The result of <a href="/wiki/Special:PermanentLink/1186220932#Requested_move_15_November_2023" title="Special:PermanentLink/1186220932">the discussion</a> was <b>not moved</b>.</td></tr></tbody></table> <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1237879475"><table class="plainlinks tmbox tmbox-notice" role="presentation"><tbody><tr><td class="mbox-image"><span typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Commons-emblem-hand.svg" class="mw-file-description"><img src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/16/Commons-emblem-hand.svg/40px-Commons-emblem-hand.svg.png" decoding="async" width="40" height="40" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/16/Commons-emblem-hand.svg/60px-Commons-emblem-hand.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/16/Commons-emblem-hand.svg/80px-Commons-emblem-hand.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="48" data-file-height="48"></a></span></td><td class="mbox-text"><strong style="text-transform: uppercase;">Warning: active arbitration remedies</strong><p>The <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Contentious_topics" title="Wikipedia:Contentious topics">contentious topics</a> procedure applies to this article. This article is related to the <a href="/wiki/Arab%E2%80%93Israeli_conflict" title="Arab–Israeli conflict">Arab–Israeli conflict</a>, which is a contentious topic. Furthermore, the following rules apply when editing this article:</p><b> <div><ul><li>You must be logged-in and <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:User_access_levels#Extendedconfirmed" title="Wikipedia:User access levels">extended-confirmed</a> to edit or discuss this topic on any page (except for <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Edit_requests#Making_requests" title="Wikipedia:Edit requests">making edit requests</a>, provided they are not disruptive)</li><li>You may not make more than 1 revert within 24 hours on any edits related to this topic</li></ul></div></b><p>Editors who repeatedly or seriously fail to adhere to the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Five_pillars" title="Wikipedia:Five pillars">purpose of Wikipedia</a>, any expected <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Etiquette" title="Wikipedia:Etiquette">standards of behaviour</a>, or any <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:List_of_policies" title="Wikipedia:List of policies">normal editorial process</a> may be blocked or restricted by an administrator. Editors are advised to familiarise themselves with the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Contentious_topics" title="Wikipedia:Contentious topics">contentious topics procedures</a> before editing this page.</p> <table class="mw-collapsible mw-archivedtalk mw-collapsed" style="background-color: transparent; text-align: left; border: 1px solid var(--border-color-subtle, #c8ccd1); margin: 0.2em auto auto; width:100%; clear: both; padding: 1px;"> <tbody><tr> <th style="background-color: #EEE8AA; font-size:87%; padding:0.2em 0.3em; text-align: left;"><div style="display: inline; font-size: 115%; color: #202122;">Further information</div> </th></tr> <tr> <td style="border: solid 1px var(--border-color-subtle, #c8ccd1); padding: 8px; background-color: var(--background-color-base, #fff); color: var(--color-base, #202122);"> <div>The exceptions to the extended confirmed restriction are: <ol><li>Non-extended-confirmed editors may use the "Talk:" namespace <strong>only to <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Edit_requests#Making_requests" title="Wikipedia:Edit requests">make edit requests</a></strong> related to articles within the topic area, provided they are not disruptive.</li> <li>Non-extended-confirmed editors may not create new articles, but administrators may exercise discretion when deciding how to enforce this remedy on article creations. 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Contentious topic sanctions can include blocks, topic-bans, or other restrictions.<br> Editors may report violations of these restrictions to the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:AE" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:AE">Arbitration enforcement</a> noticeboard.<br> </p> If you are unsure if your edit is appropriate, discuss it here on this talk page first. 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.banner-shell-inner{background-color:#2e2505}}</style><table class="tmbox tmbox-notice mw-collapsible innercollapse wpb wpb-table"><tbody><tr class="wpb-header"><td class="wpb-header-icon"><span typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Caucasian_Human_Skull.jpg" class="mw-file-description"><img alt="WikiProject icon" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/37/Caucasian_Human_Skull.jpg/19px-Caucasian_Human_Skull.jpg" decoding="async" width="19" height="25" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/37/Caucasian_Human_Skull.jpg/28px-Caucasian_Human_Skull.jpg 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/37/Caucasian_Human_Skull.jpg/37px-Caucasian_Human_Skull.jpg 2x" data-file-width="405" data-file-height="540"></a></span></td><td class="wpb-header-combined"><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Death" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Death">Death</a> <span class="wpb-header-bubbles import-low">Low‑importance</span></td></tr><tr><td class="mbox-text wpb-main" colspan="2"><table><tbody><tr><td class="mbox-image wpb-image"><span typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Caucasian_Human_Skull.jpg" class="mw-file-description"><img alt="WikiProject icon" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/37/Caucasian_Human_Skull.jpg/80px-Caucasian_Human_Skull.jpg" decoding="async" width="80" height="107" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/37/Caucasian_Human_Skull.jpg/120px-Caucasian_Human_Skull.jpg 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/37/Caucasian_Human_Skull.jpg/160px-Caucasian_Human_Skull.jpg 2x" data-file-width="405" data-file-height="540"></a></span></td><td class="mbox-text">This article is within the scope of <b><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Death" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Death">WikiProject Death</a></b>, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of <a href="/wiki/Death" title="Death">Death</a> on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Death" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Death">the discussion</a> and see a list of open tasks.<span class="metadata wpb-metadata"><span class="wpb-project">Death</span><span class="wpb-project_link">Wikipedia:WikiProject Death</span><span class="wpb-banner_name">Template:WikiProject Death</span><span class="wpb-assessment_cat">Death articles</span></span></td><td class="mbox-empty-cell"></td></tr><tr><td class="assess import-low"><a href="/wiki/Category:Low-importance_Death_articles" title="Category:Low-importance Death articles">Low</a></td><td class="mbox-text" colspan="2">This article has been rated as <b>Low-importance</b> on the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Death/Assessment#Importance_scale" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Death/Assessment">project's importance scale</a>.</td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr></tbody></table> <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1237879475"><link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1259570071"><table class="tmbox tmbox-notice mw-collapsible innercollapse wpb wpb-table"><tbody><tr class="wpb-header"><td class="wpb-header-icon"><span typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Hospital_pointer.png" class="mw-file-description"><img alt="WikiProject icon" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/18/Hospital_pointer.png/25px-Hospital_pointer.png" decoding="async" width="25" height="25" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/18/Hospital_pointer.png/38px-Hospital_pointer.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/18/Hospital_pointer.png/50px-Hospital_pointer.png 2x" data-file-width="512" data-file-height="512"></a></span></td><td class="wpb-header-combined"><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Hospitals" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Hospitals">Hospitals</a> <span class="wpb-header-bubbles import-low">Low‑importance</span></td></tr><tr><td class="mbox-text wpb-main" colspan="2"><table><tbody><tr><td class="mbox-image wpb-image"><span typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Hospital_pointer.png" class="mw-file-description"><img alt="WikiProject icon" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/18/Hospital_pointer.png/80px-Hospital_pointer.png" decoding="async" width="80" height="80" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/18/Hospital_pointer.png/120px-Hospital_pointer.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/18/Hospital_pointer.png/160px-Hospital_pointer.png 2x" data-file-width="512" data-file-height="512"></a></span></td><td class="mbox-text">This article is within the scope of <b><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Hospitals" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Hospitals">WikiProject Hospitals</a></b>, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of <a href="/wiki/Hospitals" class="mw-redirect" title="Hospitals">Hospitals</a> on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Hospitals" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Hospitals">the discussion</a> and see a list of open tasks.<span class="metadata wpb-metadata"><span class="wpb-project">Hospitals</span><span class="wpb-project_link">Wikipedia:WikiProject Hospitals</span><span class="wpb-banner_name">Template:WikiProject Hospitals</span><span class="wpb-assessment_cat">Hospital articles</span></span></td><td class="mbox-empty-cell"></td></tr><tr><td class="assess import-low"><a href="/wiki/Category:Low-importance_Hospital_articles" title="Category:Low-importance Hospital articles">Low</a></td><td class="mbox-text" colspan="2">This article has been rated as <b>Low-importance</b> on the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Hospitals/Assessment#Importance_scale" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Hospitals/Assessment">project's importance scale</a>.</td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr></tbody></table> <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1237879475"><link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1259570071"><table class="tmbox tmbox-notice mw-collapsible innercollapse wpb wpb-table"><tbody><tr class="wpb-header"><td class="wpb-header-icon"><span typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:HumanRightsLogo.svg" class="mw-file-description"><img alt="WikiProject icon" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/d3/HumanRightsLogo.svg/24px-HumanRightsLogo.svg.png" decoding="async" width="24" height="25" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/d3/HumanRightsLogo.svg/36px-HumanRightsLogo.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/d3/HumanRightsLogo.svg/48px-HumanRightsLogo.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="120" data-file-height="125"></a></span></td><td class="wpb-header-combined"><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Human_rights" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Human rights">Human rights</a> <span class="wpb-header-bubbles import-mid">Mid‑importance</span></td></tr><tr><td class="mbox-text wpb-main" colspan="2"><table><tbody><tr><td class="mbox-image wpb-image"><span typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:HumanRightsLogo.svg" class="mw-file-description"><img alt="WikiProject icon" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/d3/HumanRightsLogo.svg/50px-HumanRightsLogo.svg.png" decoding="async" width="50" height="52" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/d3/HumanRightsLogo.svg/75px-HumanRightsLogo.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/d3/HumanRightsLogo.svg/100px-HumanRightsLogo.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="120" data-file-height="125"></a></span></td><td class="mbox-text">This article is within the scope of <b><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Human_rights" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Human rights">WikiProject Human rights</a></b>, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of <a href="/wiki/Human_rights" title="Human rights">Human rights</a> on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Human_rights" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Human rights">the discussion</a> and see a list of open tasks.<span class="metadata wpb-metadata"><span class="wpb-project">Human rights</span><span class="wpb-project_link">Wikipedia:WikiProject Human rights</span><span class="wpb-banner_name">Template:WikiProject Human rights</span><span class="wpb-assessment_cat">Human rights articles</span></span></td><td class="mbox-empty-cell"></td></tr><tr><td class="assess import-mid"><a href="/wiki/Category:Mid-importance_Human_rights_articles" title="Category:Mid-importance Human rights articles">Mid</a></td><td class="mbox-text" colspan="2">This article has been rated as <b>Mid-importance</b> on the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Human_rights/Assessment#Importance_scale" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Human rights/Assessment">project's importance scale</a>.</td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr></tbody></table> <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1237879475"><link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1259570071"><table class="tmbox tmbox-notice mw-collapsible innercollapse wpb wpb-table"><tbody><tr class="wpb-header"><td class="wpb-header-icon"><span typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Flag_of_Israel.svg" class="mw-file-description"><img alt="WikiProject icon" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/d4/Flag_of_Israel.svg/35px-Flag_of_Israel.svg.png" decoding="async" width="35" height="25" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/d4/Flag_of_Israel.svg/52px-Flag_of_Israel.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/d4/Flag_of_Israel.svg/69px-Flag_of_Israel.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="1100" data-file-height="800"></a></span></td><td class="wpb-header-combined"><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Israel" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Israel">Israel</a> <span class="wpb-header-bubbles import-low">Low‑importance</span></td></tr><tr><td class="mbox-text wpb-main" colspan="2"><table><tbody><tr><td class="mbox-image wpb-image"><span typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Flag_of_Israel.svg" class="mw-file-description"><img alt="WikiProject icon" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/d4/Flag_of_Israel.svg/80px-Flag_of_Israel.svg.png" decoding="async" width="80" height="58" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/d4/Flag_of_Israel.svg/120px-Flag_of_Israel.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/d4/Flag_of_Israel.svg/160px-Flag_of_Israel.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="1100" data-file-height="800"></a></span></td><td class="mbox-text"><style data-mw-deduplicate="TemplateStyles:r1259569809">.mw-parser-output .portalbox{padding:0;margin:0.5em 0;display:table;box-sizing:border-box;max-width:175px;list-style:none}.mw-parser-output .portalborder{border:1px solid var(--border-color-base,#a2a9b1);padding:0.1em;background:var(--background-color-neutral-subtle,#f8f9fa)}.mw-parser-output .portalbox-entry{display:table-row;font-size:85%;line-height:110%;height:1.9em;font-style:italic;font-weight:bold}.mw-parser-output .portalbox-image{display:table-cell;padding:0.2em;vertical-align:middle;text-align:center}.mw-parser-output .portalbox-link{display:table-cell;padding:0.2em 0.2em 0.2em 0.3em;vertical-align:middle}@media(min-width:720px){.mw-parser-output .portalleft{clear:left;float:left;margin:0.5em 1em 0.5em 0}.mw-parser-output .portalright{clear:right;float:right;margin:0.5em 0 0.5em 1em}}</style><ul role="navigation" aria-label="Portals" class="noprint portalbox portalborder portalright"> <li class="portalbox-entry"><span class="portalbox-image"><span class="mw-image-border noviewer" typeof="mw:File"><span><img alt="flag" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/d4/Flag_of_Israel.svg/32px-Flag_of_Israel.svg.png" decoding="async" width="32" height="23" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/d4/Flag_of_Israel.svg/48px-Flag_of_Israel.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/d4/Flag_of_Israel.svg/64px-Flag_of_Israel.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="1100" data-file-height="800"></span></span></span><span class="portalbox-link"><a href="/wiki/Portal:Israel" title="Portal:Israel">Israel portal</a></span></li></ul>This article is within the scope of <b><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Israel" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Israel">WikiProject Israel</a></b>, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of <a href="/wiki/Israel" title="Israel">Israel</a> on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Israel" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Israel">the discussion</a> and see a list of open tasks.<span class="metadata wpb-metadata"><span class="wpb-project">Israel</span><span class="wpb-project_link">Wikipedia:WikiProject Israel</span><span class="wpb-banner_name">Template:WikiProject Israel</span><span class="wpb-assessment_cat">Israel-related articles</span></span></td><td class="mbox-empty-cell"></td></tr><tr><td class="assess import-low"><a href="/wiki/Category:Low-importance_Israel-related_articles" title="Category:Low-importance Israel-related articles">Low</a></td><td class="mbox-text" colspan="2">This article has been rated as <b>Low-importance</b> on the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Israel/Assessment#Importance_scale" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Israel/Assessment">project's importance scale</a>.</td></tr><tr><td colspan="3" style="padding:0"><table class="mw-collapsible mw-collapsed" style="background:transparent;width:100%"><tbody><tr><th style="text-align:left;padding:0.2em 2px 0.2em 0">Project Israel To Do:</th></tr><tr><td style="text-align:left;padding:5px;background-color:white;border:1px solid #c0c090;margin-top:5px"><style data-mw-deduplicate="TemplateStyles:r1129693374">.mw-parser-output .hlist dl,.mw-parser-output .hlist ol,.mw-parser-output .hlist ul{margin:0;padding:0}.mw-parser-output .hlist dd,.mw-parser-output .hlist dt,.mw-parser-output .hlist li{margin:0;display:inline}.mw-parser-output .hlist.inline,.mw-parser-output .hlist.inline dl,.mw-parser-output .hlist.inline ol,.mw-parser-output .hlist.inline ul,.mw-parser-output .hlist dl dl,.mw-parser-output .hlist dl ol,.mw-parser-output .hlist dl ul,.mw-parser-output .hlist ol dl,.mw-parser-output .hlist ol ol,.mw-parser-output .hlist ol ul,.mw-parser-output .hlist ul dl,.mw-parser-output .hlist ul ol,.mw-parser-output .hlist ul ul{display:inline}.mw-parser-output .hlist .mw-empty-li{display:none}.mw-parser-output .hlist dt::after{content:": "}.mw-parser-output .hlist dd::after,.mw-parser-output .hlist li::after{content:" · ";font-weight:bold}.mw-parser-output .hlist dd:last-child::after,.mw-parser-output .hlist dt:last-child::after,.mw-parser-output .hlist li:last-child::after{content:none}.mw-parser-output .hlist dd dd:first-child::before,.mw-parser-output .hlist dd dt:first-child::before,.mw-parser-output .hlist dd li:first-child::before,.mw-parser-output .hlist dt dd:first-child::before,.mw-parser-output .hlist dt dt:first-child::before,.mw-parser-output .hlist dt li:first-child::before,.mw-parser-output .hlist li dd:first-child::before,.mw-parser-output .hlist li dt:first-child::before,.mw-parser-output .hlist li li:first-child::before{content:" (";font-weight:normal}.mw-parser-output .hlist dd dd:last-child::after,.mw-parser-output .hlist dd dt:last-child::after,.mw-parser-output .hlist dd li:last-child::after,.mw-parser-output .hlist dt dd:last-child::after,.mw-parser-output .hlist dt dt:last-child::after,.mw-parser-output .hlist dt li:last-child::after,.mw-parser-output .hlist li dd:last-child::after,.mw-parser-output .hlist li dt:last-child::after,.mw-parser-output .hlist li li:last-child::after{content:")";font-weight:normal}.mw-parser-output .hlist ol{counter-reset:listitem}.mw-parser-output .hlist ol>li{counter-increment:listitem}.mw-parser-output .hlist ol>li::before{content:" "counter(listitem)"\a0 "}.mw-parser-output .hlist dd ol>li:first-child::before,.mw-parser-output .hlist dt ol>li:first-child::before,.mw-parser-output .hlist li ol>li:first-child::before{content:" ("counter(listitem)"\a0 "}</style><div class="hlist plainlinks" style="text-align:center;font-size:90%;"><ul><li><a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia%3AWikiProject_Israel%2Fto_do2&action=edit">edit</a></li><li><a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia%3AWikiProject_Israel%2Fto_do2&action=history">history</a></li><li><a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia%3AWikiProject_Israel%2Fto_do2&action=watch">watch</a></li><li><a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia%3AWikiProject_Israel%2Fto_do2&action=purge">purge</a></li></ul> </div> <table style="background:none;color:inherit;width:auto;"> <tbody><tr> <td style="vertical-align:top;"> <span typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Nuvola_apps_korganizer.svg" class="mw-file-description"><img alt="" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/e/e6/Nuvola_apps_korganizer.svg/50px-Nuvola_apps_korganizer.svg.png" decoding="async" width="50" height="50" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/e/e6/Nuvola_apps_korganizer.svg/75px-Nuvola_apps_korganizer.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/e/e6/Nuvola_apps_korganizer.svg/100px-Nuvola_apps_korganizer.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="128" data-file-height="128"></a></span><br><div style="width: 55px; height: 0px;"></div> </td> <td> <div style="position: relative; left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; z-index: 15;">Here are some tasks awaiting attention: <ul style="font-size: 100%; margin: 0px; padding: 0.3em 0px 0.3em 25px;"> <li><b><i><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Content_assessment" title="Wikipedia:Content assessment">Assess</a></i> :</b> Rate the <i><a href="/wiki/Category:Unassessed_Israel-related_articles" title="Category:Unassessed Israel-related articles">Unassessed Israel-related articles</a></i> and <i><a href="/wiki/Category:Unknown-importance_Israel-related_articles" title="Category:Unknown-importance Israel-related articles">Unknown-importance Israel-related articles</a></i>.</li><li><b><i><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Cleanup" title="Wikipedia:Cleanup">Cleanup</a></i> :</b> <a class="external text" href="https://tools.wmflabs.org/bambots/cwb/alpha/Israel.html">Cleanup listing for this project</a> is available. See also <a class="external text" href="https://tools.wmflabs.org/bambots/cwb/bycat/Israel.html">the list by category</a> and <a href="/wiki/User:CleanupWorklistBot" title="User:CleanupWorklistBot">the tool's wiki page</a>.</li><li><b><i><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Collaborations" title="Wikipedia:Collaborations">Collaborate</a></i> :</b> Participate in <i><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Israel_Palestine_Collaboration" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Israel Palestine Collaboration">WikiProject Israel Palestine Collaboration</a></i>.</li><li><b><i><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Basic_copyediting" title="Wikipedia:Basic copyediting">Copyedit</a></i> :</b> <a href="/wiki/Timeline_of_the_Israeli%E2%80%93Palestinian_conflict_in_2005" title="Timeline of the Israeli–Palestinian conflict in 2005">Timeline of the Israeli–Palestinian conflict in 2005</a></li><li><b><i><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Deletion_sorting" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Deletion sorting">Deletion sorting</a></i> :</b> Participate in discussions at <i><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Deletion_sorting/Israel" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Deletion sorting/Israel">WikiProject Deletion sorting/Israel</a></i>.</li><li><b><i><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Writing_better_articles" title="Wikipedia:Writing better articles">Expand</a></i> :</b> <a href="/wiki/Ayala_Procaccia" title="Ayala Procaccia">Ayala Procaccia</a>, <a href="/wiki/Diamond_industry_in_Israel" title="Diamond industry in Israel">Diamond industry in Israel</a>, <a href="/wiki/Edna_Arbel" title="Edna Arbel">Edna Arbel</a>, <a href="/wiki/Levin_Kipnis" title="Levin Kipnis">Levin Kipnis</a>, <a href="/wiki/Rami_Kleinstein" title="Rami Kleinstein">Rami Kleinstein</a>, <a href="/wiki/Sephardic_Haredim" title="Sephardic Haredim">Sephardic Haredim</a>, <a href="/wiki/Zman_Tel_Aviv" class="mw-redirect" title="Zman Tel Aviv">Zman Tel Aviv</a>, <a href="/wiki/Nachum_Heiman" title="Nachum Heiman">Nachum Heiman</a>, <a href="/wiki/Public_Defence_(Israel)" class="mw-redirect" title="Public Defence (Israel)">Public Defence (Israel)</a>, <a href="/wiki/Prisoner_of_Zion" title="Prisoner of Zion">Prisoner of Zion</a>, <a href="/wiki/Trial_of_Benjamin_Netanyahu" title="Trial of Benjamin Netanyahu">Trial of Benjamin Netanyahu</a>, <a href="/wiki/Day_to_Mark_the_Departure_and_Expulsion_of_Jews_from_the_Arab_Countries_and_Iran" title="Day to Mark the Departure and Expulsion of Jews from the Arab Countries and Iran">Day to Mark the Departure and Expulsion of Jews from the Arab Countries and Iran</a>, <a href="/wiki/Aliyah#Pre-modern_aliyah" title="Aliyah">Pre-Modern Aliyah</a> <br>See also <i><a href="/wiki/Category:Articles_needing_translation_from_Hebrew_Wikipedia" title="Category:Articles needing translation from Hebrew Wikipedia">Articles needing translation from Hebrew Wikipedia</a></i>.</li><li><b><i><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Geographical_coordinates" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Geographical coordinates">Geographical coordinates</a></i> :</b> Add geographic coordinates to <i><a href="/wiki/Category:Israel_articles_missing_geocoordinate_data" title="Category:Israel articles missing geocoordinate data">Israel articles missing geocoordinate data</a></i>.</li><li><b><i><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style/Infoboxes" title="Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Infoboxes">Infobox</a></i> :</b> Add infoboxes to <i><a href="/wiki/Category:Israel_articles_needing_infoboxes" title="Category:Israel articles needing infoboxes">Israel articles needing infoboxes</a></i>.</li><li><b><i><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Maintenance" title="Wikipedia:Maintenance">Maintain</a></i> :</b> See <i><a href="/wiki/Category:Israel_articles_needing_attention" title="Category:Israel articles needing attention">Israel articles needing attention</a></i>.</li><li><b><i><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Maps" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Maps">Map</a></i> :</b> See discussion at <a href="/wiki/Module:Location_map/data/Israel" title="Module:Location map/data/Israel">Module:Location map/data/Israel</a>. Add maps to articles in <i><a href="/wiki/Category:Wikipedia_requested_maps_in_Israel" title="Category:Wikipedia requested maps in Israel">Wikipedia requested maps in Israel</a></i>.</li><li><b><i><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Neutral_point_of_view" title="Wikipedia:Neutral point of view">NPOV</a></i> :</b> <a href="/wiki/Jewish_exodus_from_Arab_and_Muslim_countries" class="mw-redirect" title="Jewish exodus from Arab and Muslim countries">Jewish exodus from Arab and Muslim countries</a></li><li><b><i><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Requested_pictures" title="Wikipedia:Requested pictures">Photo</a></i> :</b> Add pictures to articles in <i><a href="/wiki/Category:Wikipedia_requested_photographs_in_Israel" title="Category:Wikipedia requested photographs in Israel">Wikipedia requested photographs in Israel</a></i>.</li><li><b><i><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Stub" title="Wikipedia:Stub">Stubs</a></i> :</b> See <i><a href="/wiki/Category:Israel_stubs" title="Category:Israel stubs">Israel stubs</a></i>.</li><li><b><i><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:As_of" title="Wikipedia:As of">Update</a></i> :</b> <a href="/wiki/Basic_Law_proposal:_Israel_as_the_Nation-State_of_the_Jewish_People" class="mw-redirect" title="Basic Law proposal: Israel as the Nation-State of the Jewish People">Basic Law proposal: Israel as the Nation-State of the Jewish People</a></li><li><b><i>Other</i> :</b> <br> <ul><li><b><i>Translate to Hebrew</i> :</b> <a href="/wiki/David_Bar-Hayim" title="David Bar-Hayim">David Bar-Hayim</a>, <a href="/wiki/Guy_Bavli" title="Guy Bavli">Guy Bavli</a>, and <a href="/wiki/Guy_Oseary" title="Guy Oseary">Guy Oseary</a>.</li></ul> </li></ul> </div> </td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr></tbody></table> <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1237879475"><link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1259570071"><table class="tmbox tmbox-notice mw-collapsible innercollapse wpb wpb-table"><tbody><tr class="wpb-header"><td class="wpb-header-icon"><span typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Israel-Palestine_peace.svg" class="mw-file-description"><img alt="WikiProject icon" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/7f/Israel-Palestine_peace.svg/35px-Israel-Palestine_peace.svg.png" decoding="async" width="35" height="15" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/7f/Israel-Palestine_peace.svg/53px-Israel-Palestine_peace.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/7f/Israel-Palestine_peace.svg/70px-Israel-Palestine_peace.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="1054" data-file-height="457"></a></span></td><td class="wpb-header-combined"><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Israel_Palestine_Collaboration" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Israel Palestine Collaboration">Israel Palestine Collaboration</a> </td></tr><tr><td class="mbox-text wpb-main" colspan="2"><table><tbody><tr><td class="mbox-image wpb-image"><span typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Israel-Palestine_peace.svg" class="mw-file-description"><img alt="WikiProject icon" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/7f/Israel-Palestine_peace.svg/100px-Israel-Palestine_peace.svg.png" decoding="async" width="100" height="43" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/7f/Israel-Palestine_peace.svg/150px-Israel-Palestine_peace.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/7f/Israel-Palestine_peace.svg/200px-Israel-Palestine_peace.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="1054" data-file-height="457"></a></span></td><td class="mbox-text">This article is within the scope of the <b><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Israel_Palestine_Collaboration" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Israel Palestine Collaboration">WikiProject Israel Palestine Collaboration</a></b>, a collaborative, bipartisan effort to improve Wikipedia's coverage of the <a href="/wiki/Israeli%E2%80%93Palestinian_conflict" title="Israeli–Palestinian conflict">Israeli–Palestinian conflict</a>. For guidelines and a participants list see the project page. See also <span class="nowrap">{{</span><a href="/wiki/Template:Palestine-Israel_enforcement" class="mw-redirect" title="Template:Palestine-Israel enforcement">Palestine-Israel enforcement</a><span class="nowrap">}}</span>, the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration_Committee" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration Committee">ArbCom</a>-authorized <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Requests_for_arbitration/Palestine-Israel_articles#Discretionary_sanctions" title="Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Palestine-Israel articles">discretionary sanctions</a>, the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Requests_for_arbitration/Palestine-Israel_articles#Log_of_blocks_and_bans" title="Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Palestine-Israel articles">log of blocks and bans</a>, and <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Working_group_on_ethnic_and_cultural_edit_wars" title="Wikipedia:Working group on ethnic and cultural edit wars">Working group on ethnic and cultural edit wars</a>. You can discuss the project at its <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Israel_Palestine_Collaboration" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Israel Palestine Collaboration">talk page</a>.<span class="metadata wpb-metadata"><span class="wpb-project">Israel Palestine Collaboration</span><span class="wpb-project_link">Wikipedia:WikiProject Israel Palestine Collaboration</span><span class="wpb-banner_name">Template:WikiProject Israel Palestine Collaboration</span><span class="wpb-assessment_cat">Israel Palestine Collaboration articles</span></span></td><td class="mbox-empty-cell"></td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr></tbody></table> <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1237879475"><link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1259570071"><table class="tmbox tmbox-notice mw-collapsible innercollapse wpb wpb-table"><tbody><tr class="wpb-header"><td class="wpb-header-icon"><span typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Waricon.svg" class="mw-file-description"><img alt="WikiProject icon" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/6/65/Waricon.svg/25px-Waricon.svg.png" decoding="async" width="25" height="25" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/6/65/Waricon.svg/38px-Waricon.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/6/65/Waricon.svg/50px-Waricon.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="140" data-file-height="140"></a></span></td><td class="wpb-header-combined"><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Military_history" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Military history">Military history</a><span class="wpb-nested-task-force">: <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Military_history/Middle_Eastern_military_history_task_force" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Military history/Middle Eastern military history task force">Middle East</a> / <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Military_history/Post-Cold_War_task_force" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Military history/Post-Cold War task force">Post-Cold War</a></span> <span class="wpb-header-bubbles class-c">C‑class</span></td></tr><tr><td class="mbox-text wpb-main" colspan="2"><table><tbody><tr><td class="mbox-image wpb-image"><span typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Waricon.svg" class="mw-file-description"><img alt="WikiProject icon" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/6/65/Waricon.svg/50px-Waricon.svg.png" decoding="async" width="50" height="50" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/6/65/Waricon.svg/75px-Waricon.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/6/65/Waricon.svg/100px-Waricon.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="140" data-file-height="140"></a></span></td><td class="mbox-text">This article is within the scope of the <b><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Military_history" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Military history">Military history WikiProject</a></b>. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the project and see a <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Military_history/Open_tasks" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Military history/Open tasks">list of open tasks</a>. To use this banner, please see the <a href="/wiki/Template:WikiProject_Military_history" title="Template:WikiProject Military history">full instructions</a>.<span class="metadata wpb-metadata"><span class="wpb-project">Military history</span><span class="wpb-project_link">Wikipedia:WikiProject Military history</span><span class="wpb-banner_name">Template:WikiProject Military history</span><span class="wpb-assessment_cat">military history articles</span></span></td><td class="mbox-empty-cell"></td></tr><tr><td class="assess class-c"><a href="/wiki/Category:C-Class_military_history_articles" title="Category:C-Class military history articles">C</a></td><td class="mbox-text" colspan="2">This article has been rated as <b>C-class</b> on the project's <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Military_history/Assessment#Quality_scale" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Military history/Assessment">quality scale</a>.</td></tr><tr><td class="assess-b" style="padding-bottom:5px"><figure class="mw-halign-center" typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Content_assessment/B-Class_criteria" title="Wikipedia:Content assessment/B-Class criteria"><img alt="B checklist" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/2/25/Bclass-checklist.svg/20px-Bclass-checklist.svg.png" decoding="async" width="20" height="20" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/2/25/Bclass-checklist.svg/30px-Bclass-checklist.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/2/25/Bclass-checklist.svg/40px-Bclass-checklist.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="100" data-file-height="100"></a><figcaption></figcaption></figure></td><td class="wpb-collapsed-notes"><table class="plainlinks mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"><tbody><tr><th class="wpb-collapsed-head mbox-text" colspan="3" style="font-weight:normal">This article has been checked against the following <b><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Military_history/Assessment#Quality_scale" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Military history/Assessment">criteria</a></b> for B-class status:</th><td style="min-width:3em"></td></tr><tr><td style="font-size:90%"><ol><li><span typeof="mw:File"><span><img alt="" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/03/Green_check.svg/16px-Green_check.svg.png" decoding="async" width="16" height="16" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/03/Green_check.svg/24px-Green_check.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/03/Green_check.svg/32px-Green_check.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="600" data-file-height="600"></span></span> Referencing and citation: <span style="font-style:italic">criterion met</span></li><li><span typeof="mw:File"><span><img alt="" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/b/ba/Red_x.svg/16px-Red_x.svg.png" decoding="async" width="16" height="16" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/b/ba/Red_x.svg/24px-Red_x.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/b/ba/Red_x.svg/32px-Red_x.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="600" data-file-height="600"></span></span> Coverage and accuracy: <span style="font-style:italic">criterion not met</span></li><li><span typeof="mw:File"><span><img alt="" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/03/Green_check.svg/16px-Green_check.svg.png" decoding="async" width="16" height="16" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/03/Green_check.svg/24px-Green_check.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/03/Green_check.svg/32px-Green_check.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="600" data-file-height="600"></span></span> Structure: <span style="font-style:italic">criterion met</span></li><li><span typeof="mw:File"><span><img alt="" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/03/Green_check.svg/16px-Green_check.svg.png" decoding="async" width="16" height="16" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/03/Green_check.svg/24px-Green_check.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/03/Green_check.svg/32px-Green_check.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="600" data-file-height="600"></span></span> Grammar and style: <span style="font-style:italic">criterion met</span></li><li><span typeof="mw:File"><span><img alt="" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/03/Green_check.svg/16px-Green_check.svg.png" decoding="async" width="16" height="16" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/03/Green_check.svg/24px-Green_check.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/03/Green_check.svg/32px-Green_check.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="600" data-file-height="600"></span></span> Supporting materials: <span style="font-style:italic">criterion met</span></li></ol></td><td style="font-size:88%"></td><td class="empty-cell"></td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr><tr><td colspan="3" class="wpb-collapsed-notes"><table class="mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"><tbody><tr><th colspan="3" class="wpb-collapsed-head">Associated task forces:</th></tr><tr><td class="mbox-image wpb-gutter" style="min-width:50px"><span class="wpb-iefix">/ </span></td><td></td><td></td></tr><tr><td><figure class="mw-halign-center" typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Middle_East_geographic.jpg" class="mw-file-description"><img alt="Taskforce icon" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/f9/Middle_East_geographic.jpg/34px-Middle_East_geographic.jpg" decoding="async" width="34" height="30" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/f9/Middle_East_geographic.jpg/50px-Middle_East_geographic.jpg 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/f9/Middle_East_geographic.jpg/67px-Middle_East_geographic.jpg 2x" data-file-width="1026" data-file-height="918"></a><figcaption></figcaption></figure></td><td class="mbox-text" colspan="2"><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Military_history/Middle_Eastern_military_history_task_force" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Military history/Middle Eastern military history task force">Middle Eastern military history task force</a></td></tr><tr><td><figure class="mw-halign-center" typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:West_and_East_Germans_at_the_Brandenburg_Gate_in_1989.jpg" class="mw-file-description"><img alt="Taskforce icon" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/1c/West_and_East_Germans_at_the_Brandenburg_Gate_in_1989.jpg/40px-West_and_East_Germans_at_the_Brandenburg_Gate_in_1989.jpg" decoding="async" width="40" height="30" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/1c/West_and_East_Germans_at_the_Brandenburg_Gate_in_1989.jpg/60px-West_and_East_Germans_at_the_Brandenburg_Gate_in_1989.jpg 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/1c/West_and_East_Germans_at_the_Brandenburg_Gate_in_1989.jpg/80px-West_and_East_Germans_at_the_Brandenburg_Gate_in_1989.jpg 2x" data-file-width="661" data-file-height="498"></a><figcaption></figcaption></figure></td><td class="mbox-text" colspan="2"><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Military_history/Post-Cold_War_task_force" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Military history/Post-Cold War task force">Post-Cold War task force</a></td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr></tbody></table> <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1237879475"><link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1259570071"><table class="tmbox tmbox-notice mw-collapsible innercollapse wpb wpb-table"><tbody><tr class="wpb-header"><td class="wpb-header-icon"><span typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Flag_of_Palestine.svg" class="mw-file-description"><img alt="WikiProject icon" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/00/Flag_of_Palestine.svg/35px-Flag_of_Palestine.svg.png" decoding="async" width="35" height="18" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/00/Flag_of_Palestine.svg/53px-Flag_of_Palestine.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/00/Flag_of_Palestine.svg/70px-Flag_of_Palestine.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="1200" data-file-height="600"></a></span></td><td class="wpb-header-combined"><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Palestine" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Palestine">Palestine</a> <span class="wpb-header-bubbles import-low">Low‑importance</span></td></tr><tr><td class="mbox-text wpb-main" colspan="2"><table><tbody><tr><td class="mbox-image wpb-image"><span typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Flag_of_Palestine.svg" class="mw-file-description"><img alt="WikiProject icon" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/00/Flag_of_Palestine.svg/80px-Flag_of_Palestine.svg.png" decoding="async" width="80" height="40" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/00/Flag_of_Palestine.svg/120px-Flag_of_Palestine.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/00/Flag_of_Palestine.svg/160px-Flag_of_Palestine.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="1200" data-file-height="600"></a></span></td><td class="mbox-text"><link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1259569809"><ul role="navigation" aria-label="Portals" class="noprint portalbox portalborder portalright"> <li class="portalbox-entry"><span class="portalbox-image"><span class="mw-image-border noviewer" typeof="mw:File"><span><img alt="flag" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/00/Flag_of_Palestine.svg/32px-Flag_of_Palestine.svg.png" decoding="async" width="32" height="16" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/00/Flag_of_Palestine.svg/48px-Flag_of_Palestine.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/00/Flag_of_Palestine.svg/64px-Flag_of_Palestine.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="1200" data-file-height="600"></span></span></span><span class="portalbox-link"><a href="/wiki/Portal:Palestine" title="Portal:Palestine">Palestine portal</a></span></li></ul>This article is within the scope of <b><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Palestine" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Palestine">WikiProject Palestine</a></b>, a team effort dedicated to building and maintaining comprehensive, informative and balanced articles related to the geographic <a href="/wiki/Palestine_(region)" title="Palestine (region)">Palestine</a> region, the <a href="/wiki/Palestinian_people" class="mw-redirect" title="Palestinian people">Palestinian people</a> and the <a href="/wiki/State_of_Palestine" title="State of Palestine">State of Palestine</a> on Wikipedia. Join us by visiting <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Palestine" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Palestine">the project page</a>, where you can add your name to the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Palestine/Members" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Palestine/Members">list of members</a> where you can contribute to the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Palestine" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Palestine">discussions</a>.<span class="metadata wpb-metadata"><span class="wpb-project">Palestine</span><span class="wpb-project_link">Wikipedia:WikiProject Palestine</span><span class="wpb-banner_name">Template:WikiProject Palestine</span><span class="wpb-assessment_cat">Palestine-related articles</span></span></td><td class="mbox-empty-cell"></td></tr><tr><td class="assess import-low"><a href="/wiki/Category:Low-importance_Palestine-related_articles" title="Category:Low-importance Palestine-related articles">Low</a></td><td class="mbox-text" colspan="2">This article has been rated as <b>Low-importance</b> on the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Palestine/Assessment#Importance_scale" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Palestine/Assessment">project's importance scale</a>.</td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr></tbody></table> <p class="mw-empty-elt"> </p> <div id="toc" class="toc" role="navigation" aria-labelledby="mw-toc-heading"><input type="checkbox" role="button" id="toctogglecheckbox" class="toctogglecheckbox" style="display:none"><div class="toctitle" lang="en" dir="ltr"><h2 id="mw-toc-heading">Contents</h2><span class="toctogglespan"><label class="toctogglelabel" for="toctogglecheckbox"></label></span></div> <ul> <li class="toclevel-1 tocsection-1"><a href="#POV_tag"><span class="tocnumber">1</span> <span class="toctext">POV tag</span></a></li> <li class="toclevel-1 tocsection-2"><a href="#Split_proposed"><span class="tocnumber">2</span> <span class="toctext">Split proposed</span></a></li> <li class="toclevel-1 tocsection-3"><a href="#Edit_request_-_clarify_casualties_in_the_info_box"><span class="tocnumber">3</span> <span class="toctext">Edit request - clarify casualties in the info box</span></a></li> <li class="toclevel-1 tocsection-4"><a href="#200+_Militants_Killed?"><span class="tocnumber">4</span> <span class="toctext">200+ Militants Killed?</span></a></li> <li class="toclevel-1 tocsection-5"><a href="#Extended-confirmed-protected_edit_request_on_12_November_2024"><span class="tocnumber">5</span> <span class="toctext">Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 12 November 2024</span></a></li> </ul> </div> </section><div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section section-heading" onclick="mfTempOpenSection(1)"><span class="indicator mf-icon mf-icon-expand mf-icon--small"></span><h2 id="POV_tag" data-mw-thread-id="h-POV_tag-20240408093600"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-POV_tag-20240408093600"></span>POV tag<span data-mw-comment-end="h-POV_tag-20240408093600"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"> <a role="button" href="/w/index.php?title=Talk:Al-Shifa_Hospital_siege&action=edit&section=1" title="Edit section: POV tag" class="cdx-button cdx-button--size-large cdx-button--fake-button cdx-button--fake-button--enabled cdx-button--icon-only cdx-button--weight-quiet "> <span class="minerva-icon minerva-icon--edit"></span> <span>edit</span> </a> </span> <span id='ooui-php-55' class='ext-discussiontools-init-section-overflowMenuButton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-buttonWidget' data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonMenuSelectWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"ellipsis","data":{"itemConfigs":[{"id":"edit","data":{"id":"edit"},"icon":"edit","label":"Edit"}],"resourceLoaderModules":[]},"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-section-overflowMenuButton"]}'><a role='button' tabindex='0' rel='nofollow' class='oo-ui-buttonElement-button'><span class='oo-ui-iconElement-icon oo-ui-icon-ellipsis'></span><span class='oo-ui-labelElement-label'></span><span class='oo-ui-indicatorElement-indicator oo-ui-indicatorElement-noIndicator'></span></a></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"><span class='ext-discussiontools-init-section-metaitem ext-discussiontools-init-section-timestampLabel'>Latest comment: <a href="#c-Alaexis-20240818115500-Wafflefrites-20240410234500">3 months ago</a></span><span class='ext-discussiontools-init-section-metaitem ext-discussiontools-init-section-commentCountLabel'>15 comments</span><span class='ext-discussiontools-init-section-metaitem ext-discussiontools-init-section-authorCountLabel'>4 people in discussion</span></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div><section class="mf-section-1 collapsible-block" id="mf-section-1"> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Makeandtoss-20240408093600-POV_tag"></span>The lede is written in such a way to distract, overwhelm and obscure straightforward facts about the siege; that it was committed with an Israeli propaganda campaign on the existence of a vast command center below the hospital, which has never been found. This news media says this; Israel says that; this website says this; it is a mess that blurs the distinction between propaganda (as reported by RS) with facts. <a href="/wiki/User:Makeandtoss" title="User:Makeandtoss">Makeandtoss</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Makeandtoss" title="User talk:Makeandtoss">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Al-Shifa_Hospital_siege#c-Makeandtoss-20240408093600-POV_tag" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">09:36, 8 April 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Makeandtoss-20240408093600-POV_tag"><span id="ooui-php-1" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button"><span class="oo-ui-iconElement-icon oo-ui-icon-share oo-ui-image-progressive"></span><span class="oo-ui-labelElement-label">Reply</span><span class="oo-ui-indicatorElement-indicator oo-ui-indicatorElement-noIndicator oo-ui-image-progressive"></span></a></span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Makeandtoss-20240408093600-POV_tag"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Wafflefrites-20240408134000-Makeandtoss-20240408093600"></span>I checked all the non paywalled sources used in the lead. 5 say “propaganda” but attribute it to Hamas accusing Israel of propaganda. The only source that actually accuses Israel of propaganda is Jeremy Scahill, which I have appropriately attributed and avoided wikivoice. The previous lead used wiki voice where not appropriate and editorializing words identified by Wikipedia’s Manual of Style. Reliable sources do not call it propaganda. They just say the evidence provided by Israel fall short it’s original claims of there being a vast command center, for example:</dd> <dd>“The evidence produced so far falls well short of that. IDF videos have shown only modest collections of small arms, mostly assault rifles, recovered from the extensive medical complex.</dd> <dd>That <i><b>suggests</b></i> an armed presence, but not the sort of elaborate nerve centre depicted in animated graphics presented to the media before al-Shifa was seized, portraying a network of well-equipped subterranean chambers.”<a rel="nofollow" class="external autonumber" href="https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/nov/17/idf-evidence-so-far-falls-well-short-of-al-shifa-hospital-being-hamas-hq">[1]</a> <a href="/wiki/User:Wafflefrites" title="User:Wafflefrites">Wafflefrites</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Wafflefrites" title="User talk:Wafflefrites">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Al-Shifa_Hospital_siege#c-Wafflefrites-20240408134000-Makeandtoss-20240408093600" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">13:40, 8 April 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Wafflefrites-20240408134000-Makeandtoss-20240408093600"><span id="ooui-php-2" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button"><span class="oo-ui-iconElement-icon oo-ui-icon-share oo-ui-image-progressive"></span><span class="oo-ui-labelElement-label">Reply</span><span class="oo-ui-indicatorElement-indicator oo-ui-indicatorElement-noIndicator oo-ui-image-progressive"></span></a></span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Wafflefrites-20240408134000-Makeandtoss-20240408093600"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Selfstudier-20240408135000-Wafflefrites-20240408134000"></span>Did you read the section Israel media campaign? The whole thing was predicated on Israeli (and US) propaganda, start to finish. <a href="/wiki/User:Selfstudier" title="User:Selfstudier">Selfstudier</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Selfstudier" title="User talk:Selfstudier">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Al-Shifa_Hospital_siege#c-Selfstudier-20240408135000-Wafflefrites-20240408134000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">13:50, 8 April 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Selfstudier-20240408135000-Wafflefrites-20240408134000"><span id="ooui-php-3" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button"><span class="oo-ui-iconElement-icon oo-ui-icon-share oo-ui-image-progressive"></span><span class="oo-ui-labelElement-label">Reply</span><span class="oo-ui-indicatorElement-indicator oo-ui-indicatorElement-noIndicator oo-ui-image-progressive"></span></a></span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Selfstudier-20240408135000-Wafflefrites-20240408134000"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Wafflefrites-20240408140000-Selfstudier-20240408135000"></span>I will check the sources in that section and get back to you. I actually didn’t change the lead much, if you look through my edit history. I fixed the <a href="/wiki/MOS:EDITORIAL" class="mw-redirect" title="MOS:EDITORIAL">MOS:EDITORIAL</a>, issues and moved a sentence that was in the third paragraph to the second paragraph.</dd> <dd>If editors would like the 2023 military siege to be about propaganda, than maybe more sources saying that it was propaganda needs to be placed in the lead. <a href="/wiki/User:Wafflefrites" title="User:Wafflefrites">Wafflefrites</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Wafflefrites" title="User talk:Wafflefrites">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Al-Shifa_Hospital_siege#c-Wafflefrites-20240408140000-Selfstudier-20240408135000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">14:00, 8 April 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Wafflefrites-20240408140000-Selfstudier-20240408135000"><span id="ooui-php-4" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button"><span class="oo-ui-iconElement-icon oo-ui-icon-share oo-ui-image-progressive"></span><span class="oo-ui-labelElement-label">Reply</span><span class="oo-ui-indicatorElement-indicator oo-ui-indicatorElement-noIndicator oo-ui-image-progressive"></span></a></span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Wafflefrites-20240408140000-Selfstudier-20240408135000"></span></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Wafflefrites-20240408140600-Selfstudier-20240408135000"></span>Ok, I did a quick source check in that section. From the non paywalled sources that I able to check, only 3 use the word “propaganda”: <i>The Nation, Democracy Now,</i> and <i>The New Arab.</i> <a href="/wiki/User:Wafflefrites" title="User:Wafflefrites">Wafflefrites</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Wafflefrites" title="User talk:Wafflefrites">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Al-Shifa_Hospital_siege#c-Wafflefrites-20240408140600-Selfstudier-20240408135000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">14:06, 8 April 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Wafflefrites-20240408140600-Selfstudier-20240408135000"><span id="ooui-php-5" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button"><span class="oo-ui-iconElement-icon oo-ui-icon-share oo-ui-image-progressive"></span><span class="oo-ui-labelElement-label">Reply</span><span class="oo-ui-indicatorElement-indicator oo-ui-indicatorElement-noIndicator oo-ui-image-progressive"></span></a></span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Wafflefrites-20240408140600-Selfstudier-20240408135000"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Selfstudier-20240408141000-Wafflefrites-20240408140600"></span>Yes and then there all the sources saying that it was basically lies and misrepresentation (whether they used those words or not), that's what propaganda is. <a href="/wiki/User:Selfstudier" title="User:Selfstudier">Selfstudier</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Selfstudier" title="User talk:Selfstudier">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Al-Shifa_Hospital_siege#c-Selfstudier-20240408141000-Wafflefrites-20240408140600" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">14:10, 8 April 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Selfstudier-20240408141000-Wafflefrites-20240408140600"><span id="ooui-php-6" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button"><span class="oo-ui-iconElement-icon oo-ui-icon-share oo-ui-image-progressive"></span><span class="oo-ui-labelElement-label">Reply</span><span class="oo-ui-indicatorElement-indicator oo-ui-indicatorElement-noIndicator oo-ui-image-progressive"></span></a></span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Selfstudier-20240408141000-Wafflefrites-20240408140600"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Makeandtoss-20240408141100-Wafflefrites-20240408134000"></span>This just further proves the point how the WP article is written in a misleading way; the article (seems to have been) published by the Intercept and should be attributed to the Intercept; not to a random investigative journalist named Scahill. Also we don't need to exactly use the word propaganda; many RS have said that Israel is outright lying, so this is another issue of semantics. <a href="/wiki/User:Makeandtoss" title="User:Makeandtoss">Makeandtoss</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Makeandtoss" title="User talk:Makeandtoss">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Al-Shifa_Hospital_siege#c-Makeandtoss-20240408141100-Wafflefrites-20240408134000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">14:11, 8 April 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Makeandtoss-20240408141100-Wafflefrites-20240408134000"><span id="ooui-php-7" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button"><span class="oo-ui-iconElement-icon oo-ui-icon-share oo-ui-image-progressive"></span><span class="oo-ui-labelElement-label">Reply</span><span class="oo-ui-indicatorElement-indicator oo-ui-indicatorElement-noIndicator oo-ui-image-progressive"></span></a></span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Makeandtoss-20240408141100-Wafflefrites-20240408134000"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Wafflefrites-20240408141400-Makeandtoss-20240408141100"></span>All right, I am not opposed to others putting a sentence summarizing the body in the lead about lies and misrepresentation. It would make things more organized. <a href="/wiki/User:Wafflefrites" title="User:Wafflefrites">Wafflefrites</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Wafflefrites" title="User talk:Wafflefrites">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Al-Shifa_Hospital_siege#c-Wafflefrites-20240408141400-Makeandtoss-20240408141100" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">14:14, 8 April 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Wafflefrites-20240408141400-Makeandtoss-20240408141100"><span id="ooui-php-8" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button"><span class="oo-ui-iconElement-icon oo-ui-icon-share oo-ui-image-progressive"></span><span class="oo-ui-labelElement-label">Reply</span><span class="oo-ui-indicatorElement-indicator oo-ui-indicatorElement-noIndicator oo-ui-image-progressive"></span></a></span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Wafflefrites-20240408141400-Makeandtoss-20240408141100"></span></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Wafflefrites-20240408141900-Makeandtoss-20240408141100"></span>The Intercept article was written by Jeremy Scahill. <a href="/wiki/User:Wafflefrites" title="User:Wafflefrites">Wafflefrites</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Wafflefrites" title="User talk:Wafflefrites">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Al-Shifa_Hospital_siege#c-Wafflefrites-20240408141900-Makeandtoss-20240408141100" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">14:19, 8 April 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Wafflefrites-20240408141900-Makeandtoss-20240408141100"><span id="ooui-php-9" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button"><span class="oo-ui-iconElement-icon oo-ui-icon-share oo-ui-image-progressive"></span><span class="oo-ui-labelElement-label">Reply</span><span class="oo-ui-indicatorElement-indicator oo-ui-indicatorElement-noIndicator oo-ui-image-progressive"></span></a></span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Wafflefrites-20240408141900-Makeandtoss-20240408141100"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Makeandtoss-20240408151700-Wafflefrites-20240408141900"></span>Yes in that case then the attribution would be to the Intercept, which readers would take more seriously than a person named Scahill, so this is just one example how there are problems of neutrality here. <a href="/wiki/User:Makeandtoss" title="User:Makeandtoss">Makeandtoss</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Makeandtoss" title="User talk:Makeandtoss">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Al-Shifa_Hospital_siege#c-Makeandtoss-20240408151700-Wafflefrites-20240408141900" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:17, 8 April 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Makeandtoss-20240408151700-Wafflefrites-20240408141900"><span id="ooui-php-10" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button"><span class="oo-ui-iconElement-icon oo-ui-icon-share oo-ui-image-progressive"></span><span class="oo-ui-labelElement-label">Reply</span><span class="oo-ui-indicatorElement-indicator oo-ui-indicatorElement-noIndicator oo-ui-image-progressive"></span></a></span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Makeandtoss-20240408151700-Wafflefrites-20240408141900"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Wafflefrites-20240408154500-Makeandtoss-20240408151700"></span>Maybe, also that sentence is not following <a href="/wiki/MOS:ACCUSED" class="mw-redirect" title="MOS:ACCUSED">MOS:ACCUSED</a>. Since you are the one who put up the neutrality tag, please feel free to make changes. <a href="/wiki/User:Wafflefrites" title="User:Wafflefrites">Wafflefrites</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Wafflefrites" title="User talk:Wafflefrites">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Al-Shifa_Hospital_siege#c-Wafflefrites-20240408154500-Makeandtoss-20240408151700" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:45, 8 April 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Wafflefrites-20240408154500-Makeandtoss-20240408151700"><span id="ooui-php-11" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button"><span class="oo-ui-iconElement-icon oo-ui-icon-share oo-ui-image-progressive"></span><span class="oo-ui-labelElement-label">Reply</span><span class="oo-ui-indicatorElement-indicator oo-ui-indicatorElement-noIndicator oo-ui-image-progressive"></span></a></span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Wafflefrites-20240408154500-Makeandtoss-20240408151700"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Alaexis-20240409112300-Makeandtoss-20240408093600"></span>The "vast command center" wasn't found but the presence of Hamas fighters in and of tunnels under the hospitals in supported by multiple RS and should not be obscured in the lede. <a href="/wiki/User:Alaexis" title="User:Alaexis">Alaexis</a><sub><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Alaexis" title="User talk:Alaexis">¿question?</a></sub> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Al-Shifa_Hospital_siege#c-Alaexis-20240409112300-Makeandtoss-20240408093600" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">11:23, 9 April 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Alaexis-20240409112300-Makeandtoss-20240408093600"><span id="ooui-php-12" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button"><span class="oo-ui-iconElement-icon oo-ui-icon-share oo-ui-image-progressive"></span><span class="oo-ui-labelElement-label">Reply</span><span class="oo-ui-indicatorElement-indicator oo-ui-indicatorElement-noIndicator oo-ui-image-progressive"></span></a></span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Alaexis-20240409112300-Makeandtoss-20240408093600"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Wafflefrites-20240410234500-Alaexis-20240409112300"></span>That was not clear to me. I didn’t know that. I think most English RS just mostly focused on how there wasn’t a vast command center. <a href="/wiki/User:Wafflefrites" title="User:Wafflefrites">Wafflefrites</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Wafflefrites" title="User talk:Wafflefrites">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Al-Shifa_Hospital_siege#c-Wafflefrites-20240410234500-Alaexis-20240409112300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:45, 10 April 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Wafflefrites-20240410234500-Alaexis-20240409112300"><span id="ooui-php-13" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button"><span class="oo-ui-iconElement-icon oo-ui-icon-share oo-ui-image-progressive"></span><span class="oo-ui-labelElement-label">Reply</span><span class="oo-ui-indicatorElement-indicator oo-ui-indicatorElement-noIndicator oo-ui-image-progressive"></span></a></span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Wafflefrites-20240410234500-Alaexis-20240409112300"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Selfstudier-20240411101700-Wafflefrites-20240410234500"></span>You didn't know because it isn't precisely true, there was a tunnel that might have been built by Israel and no Hamas fighters (or show me sources saying the contrary). At any rate, nothing approaching sufficient evidence of a military use to justify attacking a hospital and killing civilians in the process. <a href="/wiki/User:Selfstudier" title="User:Selfstudier">Selfstudier</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Selfstudier" title="User talk:Selfstudier">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Al-Shifa_Hospital_siege#c-Selfstudier-20240411101700-Wafflefrites-20240410234500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">10:17, 11 April 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Selfstudier-20240411101700-Wafflefrites-20240410234500"><span id="ooui-php-14" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button"><span class="oo-ui-iconElement-icon oo-ui-icon-share oo-ui-image-progressive"></span><span class="oo-ui-labelElement-label">Reply</span><span class="oo-ui-indicatorElement-indicator oo-ui-indicatorElement-noIndicator oo-ui-image-progressive"></span></a></span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Selfstudier-20240411101700-Wafflefrites-20240410234500"></span></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Alaexis-20240818115500-Wafflefrites-20240410234500"></span>@<a href="/wiki/User:Wafflefrites" title="User:Wafflefrites">Wafflefrites</a> I just realised I didn't respond to your comment in April. This <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://www.france24.com/en/tv-shows/truth-or-fake/20231130-al-shifa-hospital-where-the-tunnels-discovered-by-israel-built-by-israel">France24</a> report discusses the tunnels under the hospital and who likely built them. It's present in the article already. <a href="/wiki/User:Alaexis" title="User:Alaexis">Alaexis</a><sub><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Alaexis" title="User talk:Alaexis">¿question?</a></sub> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Al-Shifa_Hospital_siege#c-Alaexis-20240818115500-Wafflefrites-20240410234500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">11:55, 18 August 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Alaexis-20240818115500-Wafflefrites-20240410234500"><span id="ooui-php-15" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button"><span class="oo-ui-iconElement-icon oo-ui-icon-share oo-ui-image-progressive"></span><span class="oo-ui-labelElement-label">Reply</span><span class="oo-ui-indicatorElement-indicator oo-ui-indicatorElement-noIndicator oo-ui-image-progressive"></span></a></span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Alaexis-20240818115500-Wafflefrites-20240410234500"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> </section><div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section section-heading" onclick="mfTempOpenSection(2)"><span class="indicator mf-icon mf-icon-expand mf-icon--small"></span><h2 id="Split_proposed" data-mw-thread-id="h-Split_proposed-20240412031000"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Split_proposed-20240412031000"></span>Split proposed<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Split_proposed-20240412031000"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"> <a role="button" href="/w/index.php?title=Talk:Al-Shifa_Hospital_siege&action=edit&section=2" title="Edit section: Split proposed" class="cdx-button cdx-button--size-large cdx-button--fake-button cdx-button--fake-button--enabled cdx-button--icon-only cdx-button--weight-quiet "> <span class="minerva-icon minerva-icon--edit"></span> <span>edit</span> </a> </span> <span id='ooui-php-56' class='ext-discussiontools-init-section-overflowMenuButton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-buttonWidget' data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonMenuSelectWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"ellipsis","data":{"itemConfigs":[{"id":"edit","data":{"id":"edit"},"icon":"edit","label":"Edit"}],"resourceLoaderModules":[]},"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-section-overflowMenuButton"]}'><a role='button' tabindex='0' rel='nofollow' class='oo-ui-buttonElement-button'><span class='oo-ui-iconElement-icon oo-ui-icon-ellipsis'></span><span class='oo-ui-labelElement-label'></span><span class='oo-ui-indicatorElement-indicator oo-ui-indicatorElement-noIndicator'></span></a></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"><span class='ext-discussiontools-init-section-metaitem ext-discussiontools-init-section-timestampLabel'>Latest comment: <a href="#c-Selfstudier-20241121192300-Split_proposed">6 days ago</a></span><span class='ext-discussiontools-init-section-metaitem ext-discussiontools-init-section-commentCountLabel'>34 comments</span><span class='ext-discussiontools-init-section-metaitem ext-discussiontools-init-section-authorCountLabel'>10 people in discussion</span></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div><section class="mf-section-2 collapsible-block" id="mf-section-2"> <span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Selfstudier-20241121192300-Split_proposed"></span><style data-mw-deduplicate="TemplateStyles:r1250141580">.mw-parser-output .archive-top{background-color:#EDEAFF;color:inherit;padding:0 0.6em;border:1px solid #8779DD}.mw-parser-output .archive-top-result .side-box-abovebelow{background-color:#c3c3c3;color:inherit;text-align:center;font-size:110%;font-weight:bold}@media screen{html.skin-theme-clientpref-night .mw-parser-output .archive-top{background-color:#181424;border:1px solid #8072d6;color:#fff}html.skin-theme-clientpref-night .mw-parser-output .archive-top-result .side-box-abovebelow{background-color:#141126;color:#fff}}@media screen and (prefers-color-scheme:dark){html.skin-theme-clientpref-os .mw-parser-output .archive-top{background-color:#181424;border:1px solid #8072d6;color:#fff}html.skin-theme-clientpref-os .mw-parser-output .archive-top-result .side-box-abovebelow{background-color:#141126;color:#fff}}@media(min-width:640px){.mw-parser-output .archive-top-result{width:30%}}</style><div class="boilerplate archived archive-top mw-archivedtalk" style=""><style data-mw-deduplicate="TemplateStyles:r1235681985">.mw-parser-output .side-box{margin:4px 0;box-sizing:border-box;border:1px solid #aaa;font-size:88%;line-height:1.25em;background-color:var(--background-color-interactive-subtle,#f8f9fa);display:flow-root}.mw-parser-output .side-box-abovebelow,.mw-parser-output .side-box-text{padding:0.25em 0.9em}.mw-parser-output .side-box-image{padding:2px 0 2px 0.9em;text-align:center}.mw-parser-output .side-box-imageright{padding:2px 0.9em 2px 0;text-align:center}@media(min-width:500px){.mw-parser-output .side-box-flex{display:flex;align-items:center}.mw-parser-output .side-box-text{flex:1;min-width:0}}@media(min-width:720px){.mw-parser-output .side-box{width:238px}.mw-parser-output .side-box-right{clear:right;float:right;margin-left:1em}.mw-parser-output .side-box-left{margin-right:1em}}</style><div class="side-box metadata side-box-right archive-top-result" style="padding: 10px; line-height: inherit;"> <div class="side-box-flex"> <div class="side-box-text" style="padding: 0;">No consensus to split. <a href="/wiki/User:Selfstudier" title="User:Selfstudier">Selfstudier</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Selfstudier" title="User talk:Selfstudier">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Al-Shifa_Hospital_siege#c-Selfstudier-20241121192300-Split_proposed" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:23, 21 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Selfstudier-20241121192300-Split_proposed"><span id="ooui-php-16" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button"><span class="oo-ui-iconElement-icon oo-ui-icon-share oo-ui-image-progressive"></span><span class="oo-ui-labelElement-label">Reply</span><span class="oo-ui-indicatorElement-indicator oo-ui-indicatorElement-noIndicator oo-ui-image-progressive"></span></a></span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Selfstudier-20241121192300-Split_proposed"></span></div></div> </div> <div class="boilerplate-header" style="margin-left: 1.6em; font-style: italic;"> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Dylanvt-20240412031000-Split_proposed"></span>The following discussion is closed. <strong style="color: var(--color-error, red);">Please do not modify it.</strong> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion. </p> </div> <hr> <p>Many sources are reporting that the March "siege" was a massacre, with hundreds of civilians killed by israeli forces. This is clearly significant enough to warrant a separate article. <a href="/wiki/User:Dylanvt" title="User:Dylanvt">Dylanvt</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Dylanvt" title="User talk:Dylanvt">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Al-Shifa_Hospital_siege#c-Dylanvt-20240412031000-Split_proposed" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">03:10, 12 April 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Dylanvt-20240412031000-Split_proposed"><span id="ooui-php-17" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button"><span class="oo-ui-iconElement-icon oo-ui-icon-share oo-ui-image-progressive"></span><span class="oo-ui-labelElement-label">Reply</span><span class="oo-ui-indicatorElement-indicator oo-ui-indicatorElement-noIndicator oo-ui-image-progressive"></span></a></span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Dylanvt-20240412031000-Split_proposed"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Dylanvt-20240412031700-Dylanvt-20240412031000"></span>Here are some examples: <ol><li><a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://www.ohchr.org/en/statements-and-speeches/2024/04/israelgaza-un-experts-deplore-attacks-al-shifa-hospital-urge-states">Israel/Gaza: UN experts deplore attacks on Al-Shifa Hospital, urge States to stop the massacre</a></li> <li><a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://reliefweb.int/report/occupied-palestinian-territory/al-shifa-medical-complex-witnesses-one-largest-massacres-palestinian-history-enar">Al-Shifa Medical Complex witnesses one of the largest massacres in Palestinian history</a></li> <li><a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://reliefweb.int/report/occupied-palestinian-territory/gaza-al-shifa-medical-complex-massacre-provides-proof-israeli-army-engaged-full-fledged-crimes-enar">Gaza: Al-Shifa Medical Complex massacre provides proof that the Israeli army engaged in full-fledged crimes</a></li> <li><a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://mondoweiss.net/2024/04/come-out-you-animals-how-the-massacre-at-al-shifa-hospital-happened/">‘Come out, you animals’: how the massacre at al-Shifa Hospital happened</a></li> <li><a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://jacobin.com/2024/04/al-shifa-hospital-siege-gaza-massacre">Israel’s Horrific Massacre at Gaza’s Largest Hospital</a></li> <li><a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://www.thenation.com/article/world/israel-al-shifa-massacre-denialism/">Israel’s Brutality Is Increasing—and So Is Its Denialism</a></li> <li><a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2024/04/02/aauk-a02.html">White House defends Shifa hospital massacre that killed over 400</a></li> <li><a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://electronicintifada.net/blogs/nora-barrows-friedman/al-shifa-hospital-ruins">Al-Shifa Hospital in ruins</a></li> <li><a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://mondoweiss.net/2024/04/israel-destroyed-al-shifa-hospital-to-accelerate-social-collapse-in-gaza/">Israel destroyed al-Shifa Hospital to accelerate social collapse in Gaza</a></li> <li><a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://www.icjpalestine.com/2024/04/02/israels-massacre-at-al-shifa-hospital-and-targeting-of-aid-providers-are-emblematic-of-its-campaign-of-systematic-destruction-of-life-in-gaza/">Israel’s massacre at Al-Shifa hospital and targeting of aid providers are emblematic of its campaign of systematic destruction of life in Gaza</a></li> <li><a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://muslimmirror.com/eng/gaza-horrific-scenes-from-the-al-shifa-hospital-massacre/">Gaza : Horrific scenes from the Al-Shifa Hospital Massacre</a> (<a href="/wiki/Trauma_trigger" title="Trauma trigger">cw</a>)</li></ol></dd> <dd><a href="/wiki/User:Dylanvt" title="User:Dylanvt">Dylanvt</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Dylanvt" title="User talk:Dylanvt">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Al-Shifa_Hospital_siege#c-Dylanvt-20240412031700-Dylanvt-20240412031000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">03:17, 12 April 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Dylanvt-20240412031700-Dylanvt-20240412031000"><span id="ooui-php-18" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button"><span class="oo-ui-iconElement-icon oo-ui-icon-share oo-ui-image-progressive"></span><span class="oo-ui-labelElement-label">Reply</span><span class="oo-ui-indicatorElement-indicator oo-ui-indicatorElement-noIndicator oo-ui-image-progressive"></span></a></span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Dylanvt-20240412031700-Dylanvt-20240412031000"></span> <dl><dd><b><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Wafflefrites-20240412034400-Dylanvt-20240412031700"></span>Comment:</b> You have Euro-Med Monitor via ReliefWeb up there twice, as well as Mondoweiss twice. One of your sources is The Electronic Intifada, which is not a reliable source per Wikipedia. Personally, I do not think the English sources you provided are very mainstream. If more mainstream sources like <i>CNN, The New York Times, AP News, Reuters, WSJ</i> are naming it "massacre", then I would agree per <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:COMMONNAME" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:COMMONNAME">WP:COMMONNAME</a>, but it seems the mainstream sources are still calling it a "seige" or a "raid. <a href="/wiki/User:Wafflefrites" title="User:Wafflefrites">Wafflefrites</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Wafflefrites" title="User talk:Wafflefrites">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Al-Shifa_Hospital_siege#c-Wafflefrites-20240412034400-Dylanvt-20240412031700" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">03:44, 12 April 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Wafflefrites-20240412034400-Dylanvt-20240412031700"><span id="ooui-php-19" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button"><span class="oo-ui-iconElement-icon oo-ui-icon-share oo-ui-image-progressive"></span><span class="oo-ui-labelElement-label">Reply</span><span class="oo-ui-indicatorElement-indicator oo-ui-indicatorElement-noIndicator oo-ui-image-progressive"></span></a></span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Wafflefrites-20240412034400-Dylanvt-20240412031700"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Dylanvt-20240412040900-Wafflefrites-20240412034400"></span>Yet is anybody denying the fact that hundreds of civilians were killed by an occupying military force? Is that not a massacre? Besides, the crux of this is not the specific wording, but the fact that the March event was significant and distinct from the November one and should have its own article. <a href="/wiki/User:Dylanvt" title="User:Dylanvt">Dylanvt</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Dylanvt" title="User talk:Dylanvt">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Al-Shifa_Hospital_siege#c-Dylanvt-20240412040900-Wafflefrites-20240412034400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">04:09, 12 April 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Dylanvt-20240412040900-Wafflefrites-20240412034400"><span id="ooui-php-20" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button"><span class="oo-ui-iconElement-icon oo-ui-icon-share oo-ui-image-progressive"></span><span class="oo-ui-labelElement-label">Reply</span><span class="oo-ui-indicatorElement-indicator oo-ui-indicatorElement-noIndicator oo-ui-image-progressive"></span></a></span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Dylanvt-20240412040900-Wafflefrites-20240412034400"></span></dd></dl></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Dylanvt-20240413220900-Dylanvt-20240412031700"></span>Apologies, I didn't notice the section above that already had discussion on this, as there wasn't a tag in the article itself before I added one. <a href="/wiki/User:Dylanvt" title="User:Dylanvt">Dylanvt</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Dylanvt" title="User talk:Dylanvt">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Al-Shifa_Hospital_siege#c-Dylanvt-20240413220900-Dylanvt-20240412031700" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:09, 13 April 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Dylanvt-20240413220900-Dylanvt-20240412031700"><span id="ooui-php-21" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button"><span class="oo-ui-iconElement-icon oo-ui-icon-share oo-ui-image-progressive"></span><span class="oo-ui-labelElement-label">Reply</span><span class="oo-ui-indicatorElement-indicator oo-ui-indicatorElement-noIndicator oo-ui-image-progressive"></span></a></span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Dylanvt-20240413220900-Dylanvt-20240412031700"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl> <p><s><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-MWQs-20240611173400-Split_proposed"></span>::<b>Sulport</b> a split, the article is getting very long, and the recent obliteration was independently notable. <a href="/wiki/User:MWQs" title="User:MWQs">MWQs</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:MWQs" title="User talk:MWQs">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Al-Shifa_Hospital_siege#c-MWQs-20240611173400-Split_proposed" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:34, 11 June 2024 (UTC)</a></s><small>Sock</small><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-MWQs-20240611173400-Split_proposed"><span id="ooui-php-22" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button"><span class="oo-ui-iconElement-icon oo-ui-icon-share oo-ui-image-progressive"></span><span class="oo-ui-labelElement-label">Reply</span><span class="oo-ui-indicatorElement-indicator oo-ui-indicatorElement-noIndicator oo-ui-image-progressive"></span></a></span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-MWQs-20240611173400-Split_proposed"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-The_Great_Mule_of_Eupatoria-20240416042000-MWQs-20240611173400"></span>Best to split. This seems to have stemmed from a "continuation" or "renewal" of the November operation, which was a siege and was initally the only one covered by the article <a href="/wiki/User:The_Great_Mule_of_Eupatoria" title="User:The Great Mule of Eupatoria">The Great Mule of Eupatoria</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:The_Great_Mule_of_Eupatoria" title="User talk:The Great Mule of Eupatoria">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Al-Shifa_Hospital_siege#c-The_Great_Mule_of_Eupatoria-20240416042000-MWQs-20240611173400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">04:20, 16 April 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-The_Great_Mule_of_Eupatoria-20240416042000-MWQs-20240611173400"><span id="ooui-php-23" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button"><span class="oo-ui-iconElement-icon oo-ui-icon-share oo-ui-image-progressive"></span><span class="oo-ui-labelElement-label">Reply</span><span class="oo-ui-indicatorElement-indicator oo-ui-indicatorElement-noIndicator oo-ui-image-progressive"></span></a></span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-The_Great_Mule_of_Eupatoria-20240416042000-MWQs-20240611173400"></span></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><b><s><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Wafflefrites-20240412041900-The_Great_Mule_of_Eupatoria-20240416042000"></span>Support split and</s> Oppose name</b> “Al-Shifa Hospital massacre” per <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:COMMONNAME" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:COMMONNAME">WP:COMMONNAME</a> and lack of its use in mainstream reliable sources. I would support a name like “Al Shifa Hospital March 2024 siege” or “2024 Al-Shifa Hospital siege”.</dd> <dd><a href="/wiki/User:Wafflefrites" title="User:Wafflefrites">Wafflefrites</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Wafflefrites" title="User talk:Wafflefrites">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Al-Shifa_Hospital_siege#c-Wafflefrites-20240412041900-The_Great_Mule_of_Eupatoria-20240416042000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">04:19, 12 April 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Wafflefrites-20240412041900-The_Great_Mule_of_Eupatoria-20240416042000"><span id="ooui-php-24" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button"><span class="oo-ui-iconElement-icon oo-ui-icon-share oo-ui-image-progressive"></span><span class="oo-ui-labelElement-label">Reply</span><span class="oo-ui-indicatorElement-indicator oo-ui-indicatorElement-noIndicator oo-ui-image-progressive"></span></a></span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Wafflefrites-20240412041900-The_Great_Mule_of_Eupatoria-20240416042000"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Selfstudier-20240412120000-Wafflefrites-20240412041900"></span>The problem with siege is the implication that all the Israeli forces surrounded but did not enter the hospital, which they did initially but not for the entirety of the episode. Attack is better and I think that is in fact what it was, Israel claimed the presence of enemy forces in the hospital as justification for it. Whether that actually holds up as an excuse I cannot say until I have looked at the sourcing a bit more closely but on past performance I doubt it.<a href="/wiki/User:Selfstudier" title="User:Selfstudier">Selfstudier</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Selfstudier" title="User talk:Selfstudier">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Al-Shifa_Hospital_siege#c-Selfstudier-20240412120000-Wafflefrites-20240412041900" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">12:00, 12 April 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Selfstudier-20240412120000-Wafflefrites-20240412041900"><span id="ooui-php-25" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button"><span class="oo-ui-iconElement-icon oo-ui-icon-share oo-ui-image-progressive"></span><span class="oo-ui-labelElement-label">Reply</span><span class="oo-ui-indicatorElement-indicator oo-ui-indicatorElement-noIndicator oo-ui-image-progressive"></span></a></span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Selfstudier-20240412120000-Wafflefrites-20240412041900"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Wafflefrites-20240412130900-Selfstudier-20240412120000"></span>I think you are right about the siege definition. This probably means that the current COMMONNAME is not accurate. The reliable sources really need to get better at naming. <a href="/wiki/User:Wafflefrites" title="User:Wafflefrites">Wafflefrites</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Wafflefrites" title="User talk:Wafflefrites">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Al-Shifa_Hospital_siege#c-Wafflefrites-20240412130900-Selfstudier-20240412120000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">13:09, 12 April 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Wafflefrites-20240412130900-Selfstudier-20240412120000"><span id="ooui-php-26" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button"><span class="oo-ui-iconElement-icon oo-ui-icon-share oo-ui-image-progressive"></span><span class="oo-ui-labelElement-label">Reply</span><span class="oo-ui-indicatorElement-indicator oo-ui-indicatorElement-noIndicator oo-ui-image-progressive"></span></a></span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Wafflefrites-20240412130900-Selfstudier-20240412120000"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-MWQs-20240611174400-Wafflefrites-20240412130900"></span>Al Shifa massacre is a very common name. <a href="/wiki/User:MWQs" title="User:MWQs">MWQs</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:MWQs" title="User talk:MWQs">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Al-Shifa_Hospital_siege#c-MWQs-20240611174400-Wafflefrites-20240412130900" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:44, 11 June 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-MWQs-20240611174400-Wafflefrites-20240412130900"><span id="ooui-php-27" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button"><span class="oo-ui-iconElement-icon oo-ui-icon-share oo-ui-image-progressive"></span><span class="oo-ui-labelElement-label">Reply</span><span class="oo-ui-indicatorElement-indicator oo-ui-indicatorElement-noIndicator oo-ui-image-progressive"></span></a></span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-MWQs-20240611174400-Wafflefrites-20240412130900"></span></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-MWQs-20240611174400-Wafflefrites-20240412130900-1"></span>You could argue it's not neutral, but it's very common. <a href="/wiki/User:MWQs" title="User:MWQs">MWQs</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:MWQs" title="User talk:MWQs">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Al-Shifa_Hospital_siege#c-MWQs-20240611174400-Wafflefrites-20240412130900-1" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:44, 11 June 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-MWQs-20240611174400-Wafflefrites-20240412130900-1"><span id="ooui-php-28" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button"><span class="oo-ui-iconElement-icon oo-ui-icon-share oo-ui-image-progressive"></span><span class="oo-ui-labelElement-label">Reply</span><span class="oo-ui-indicatorElement-indicator oo-ui-indicatorElement-noIndicator oo-ui-image-progressive"></span></a></span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-MWQs-20240611174400-Wafflefrites-20240412130900-1"></span></dd></dl></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-The_Great_Mule_of_Eupatoria-20240416041900-Selfstudier-20240412120000"></span>"Siege" here does accurately refer to the first operation, where israeli forces circled the hospital in november for four days before raiding it. In the march operation, the hospital was immediately raided and because of the time gap and different type of operation which led to the hispital's destruction, it is distinct enough to warrant its own article <a href="/wiki/User:The_Great_Mule_of_Eupatoria" title="User:The Great Mule of Eupatoria">The Great Mule of Eupatoria</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:The_Great_Mule_of_Eupatoria" title="User talk:The Great Mule of Eupatoria">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Al-Shifa_Hospital_siege#c-The_Great_Mule_of_Eupatoria-20240416041900-Selfstudier-20240412120000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">04:19, 16 April 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-The_Great_Mule_of_Eupatoria-20240416041900-Selfstudier-20240412120000"><span id="ooui-php-29" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button"><span class="oo-ui-iconElement-icon oo-ui-icon-share oo-ui-image-progressive"></span><span class="oo-ui-labelElement-label">Reply</span><span class="oo-ui-indicatorElement-indicator oo-ui-indicatorElement-noIndicator oo-ui-image-progressive"></span></a></span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-The_Great_Mule_of_Eupatoria-20240416041900-Selfstudier-20240412120000"></span></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-MWQs-20240611174100-Selfstudier-20240412120000"></span>@<a href="/wiki/User:Selfstudier" title="User:Selfstudier">Selfstudier</a> other hospital articles are called that, maybe they should be changed to invasion or attack? I can't think of a word that sounds like the right scale. <a href="/wiki/User:MWQs" title="User:MWQs">MWQs</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:MWQs" title="User talk:MWQs">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Al-Shifa_Hospital_siege#c-MWQs-20240611174100-Selfstudier-20240412120000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:41, 11 June 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-MWQs-20240611174100-Selfstudier-20240412120000"><span id="ooui-php-30" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button"><span class="oo-ui-iconElement-icon oo-ui-icon-share oo-ui-image-progressive"></span><span class="oo-ui-labelElement-label">Reply</span><span class="oo-ui-indicatorElement-indicator oo-ui-indicatorElement-noIndicator oo-ui-image-progressive"></span></a></span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-MWQs-20240611174100-Selfstudier-20240412120000"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-MWQs-20240611174600-MWQs-20240611174100"></span>"raid" maybe works? <a rel="nofollow" class="external free" href="https://www.pbs.org/newshour/world/after-2-weeks-of-raids-at-shifa-hospital-gazas-largest-israeli-troops-withdraw">https://www.pbs.org/newshour/world/after-2-weeks-of-raids-at-shifa-hospital-gazas-largest-israeli-troops-withdraw</a> <a href="/wiki/User:MWQs" title="User:MWQs">MWQs</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:MWQs" title="User talk:MWQs">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Al-Shifa_Hospital_siege#c-MWQs-20240611174600-MWQs-20240611174100" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:46, 11 June 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-MWQs-20240611174600-MWQs-20240611174100"><span id="ooui-php-31" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button"><span class="oo-ui-iconElement-icon oo-ui-icon-share oo-ui-image-progressive"></span><span class="oo-ui-labelElement-label">Reply</span><span class="oo-ui-indicatorElement-indicator oo-ui-indicatorElement-noIndicator oo-ui-image-progressive"></span></a></span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-MWQs-20240611174600-MWQs-20240611174100"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd> <dd><b><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Alaexis-20240412093500-MWQs-20240611173400"></span>Oppose</b>. The majority of reliable sources use words like "battle" or "fighting" <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://www.scmp.com/news/world/middle-east/article/3257528/death-and-ruins-gazas-al-shifa-hospital-after-2-week-battle-between-hamas-and-israeli-troops-ends">SCMP</a> <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/in-the-israel-hamas-war-an-emblematic-battle-for-al-shifa-hospital/ar-BB1kL8AD">France24</a> <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://www.nytimes.com/2024/04/01/world/middleeast/gaza-al-shifa-hospital.html">NYT</a> <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/gazas-al-shifa-hospital-devastated-in-two-week-battle/ar-BB1kRfat">AFP</a>. <a href="/wiki/User:Alaexis" title="User:Alaexis">Alaexis</a><sub><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Alaexis" title="User talk:Alaexis">¿question?</a></sub> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Al-Shifa_Hospital_siege#c-Alaexis-20240412093500-MWQs-20240611173400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">09:35, 12 April 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Alaexis-20240412093500-MWQs-20240611173400"><span id="ooui-php-32" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button"><span class="oo-ui-iconElement-icon oo-ui-icon-share oo-ui-image-progressive"></span><span class="oo-ui-labelElement-label">Reply</span><span class="oo-ui-indicatorElement-indicator oo-ui-indicatorElement-noIndicator oo-ui-image-progressive"></span></a></span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Alaexis-20240412093500-MWQs-20240611173400"></span> <ol><li><a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://www.newarab.com/news/al-shifa-hospital-witnesses-reveal-bloodshed-israeli-raid"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Selfstudier-20240412124000-Alaexis-20240412093500"></span>Al-Shifa Hospital witnesses reveal bloodshed of Israeli raids</a> Today from the New Arab. <a href="/wiki/User:Selfstudier" title="User:Selfstudier">Selfstudier</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Selfstudier" title="User talk:Selfstudier">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Al-Shifa_Hospital_siege#c-Selfstudier-20240412124000-Alaexis-20240412093500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">12:40, 12 April 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Selfstudier-20240412124000-Alaexis-20240412093500"><span id="ooui-php-33" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button"><span class="oo-ui-iconElement-icon oo-ui-icon-share oo-ui-image-progressive"></span><span class="oo-ui-labelElement-label">Reply</span><span class="oo-ui-indicatorElement-indicator oo-ui-indicatorElement-noIndicator oo-ui-image-progressive"></span></a></span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Selfstudier-20240412124000-Alaexis-20240412093500"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Wafflefrites-20240412131400-Selfstudier-20240412124000"></span>The New Arab uses “raids” in its headlines and “second siege” in the body. <a href="/wiki/User:Wafflefrites" title="User:Wafflefrites">Wafflefrites</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Wafflefrites" title="User talk:Wafflefrites">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Al-Shifa_Hospital_siege#c-Wafflefrites-20240412131400-Selfstudier-20240412124000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">13:14, 12 April 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Wafflefrites-20240412131400-Selfstudier-20240412124000"><span id="ooui-php-34" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button"><span class="oo-ui-iconElement-icon oo-ui-icon-share oo-ui-image-progressive"></span><span class="oo-ui-labelElement-label">Reply</span><span class="oo-ui-indicatorElement-indicator oo-ui-indicatorElement-noIndicator oo-ui-image-progressive"></span></a></span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Wafflefrites-20240412131400-Selfstudier-20240412124000"></span></dd></dl></li></ol></dd> <dd><b><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Reenem-20240418092900-MWQs-20240611173400"></span>Support Split and Oppose Name</b> There were two separate raids on the hospital so the article should be branched off into two articles, each covering one particular raid. I strongly oppose the term "massacre", since there is no mainstream consensus that it was a massacre rather than a battle. Many of the sources provided here to back up the "massacre" claim are blatantly partisan, such as Electronic Intifada, Jacobin, Mondoweiss, and ICJPalestine. It should be "First Raid on Al-Shifa" and "Second Raid on Al-Shifa" or "First Battle of Al-Shifa" and "Second Battle of Al-Shifa". The massacre allegations can be covered within the articles but they should not be presented as indisputable fact.--<a href="/wiki/User:Reenem" title="User:Reenem">RM</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Reenem" title="User talk:Reenem">Be my friend</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Al-Shifa_Hospital_siege#c-Reenem-20240418092900-MWQs-20240611173400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">09:29, 18 April 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Reenem-20240418092900-MWQs-20240611173400"><span id="ooui-php-35" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button"><span class="oo-ui-iconElement-icon oo-ui-icon-share oo-ui-image-progressive"></span><span class="oo-ui-labelElement-label">Reply</span><span class="oo-ui-indicatorElement-indicator oo-ui-indicatorElement-noIndicator oo-ui-image-progressive"></span></a></span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Reenem-20240418092900-MWQs-20240611173400"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Selfstudier-20240420111000-Reenem-20240418092900"></span>The second attack involves at least 200 dead militants according to the IDF but the reports from the other side speak of 381 bodies and another 15 a week later. This whole affair probably needs a complete investigation to uncover what occurred. The name of the second should not be merely number 2 or anything like that because it is at least clear that the death and destruction are on a completely different level and idk, massacre may in fact be appropriate. There should definitely be a split and the sources rounded up and examined further. <a href="/wiki/User:Selfstudier" title="User:Selfstudier">Selfstudier</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Selfstudier" title="User talk:Selfstudier">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Al-Shifa_Hospital_siege#c-Selfstudier-20240420111000-Reenem-20240418092900" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">11:10, 20 April 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Selfstudier-20240420111000-Reenem-20240418092900"><span id="ooui-php-36" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button"><span class="oo-ui-iconElement-icon oo-ui-icon-share oo-ui-image-progressive"></span><span class="oo-ui-labelElement-label">Reply</span><span class="oo-ui-indicatorElement-indicator oo-ui-indicatorElement-noIndicator oo-ui-image-progressive"></span></a></span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Selfstudier-20240420111000-Reenem-20240418092900"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Reenem-20240421061200-Selfstudier-20240420111000"></span>No, massacre is not appropriate. It was an extended battle. If you want to call it a "massacre" prove that it's widely acknowledged as being such in the mainstream. <a href="/wiki/User:Reenem" title="User:Reenem">RM</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Reenem" title="User talk:Reenem">Be my friend</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Al-Shifa_Hospital_siege#c-Reenem-20240421061200-Selfstudier-20240420111000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">06:12, 21 April 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Reenem-20240421061200-Selfstudier-20240420111000"><span id="ooui-php-37" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button"><span class="oo-ui-iconElement-icon oo-ui-icon-share oo-ui-image-progressive"></span><span class="oo-ui-labelElement-label">Reply</span><span class="oo-ui-indicatorElement-indicator oo-ui-indicatorElement-noIndicator oo-ui-image-progressive"></span></a></span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Reenem-20240421061200-Selfstudier-20240420111000"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Wafflefrites-20240423133100-MWQs-20240611173400"></span>I changed my mind about splitting the article. <b>I don’t think it should be split due to continuity and context reasons</b>. One example is the mass grave that was dug in the courtyard during the 2023 siege. Later in the 2024 siege, the IDF bulldozed the courtyard, according to the AJ liveblog source (which doesn’t provide context other than the courtyard was bulldozed). A better source may be needed but this is a continuity and context issue because only this Wikipedia article with the combined sieges provided the context that there was a mass grave in the courtyard that was bulldozed. <a href="/wiki/User:Wafflefrites" title="User:Wafflefrites">Wafflefrites</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Wafflefrites" title="User talk:Wafflefrites">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Al-Shifa_Hospital_siege#c-Wafflefrites-20240423133100-MWQs-20240611173400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">13:31, 23 April 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Wafflefrites-20240423133100-MWQs-20240611173400"><span id="ooui-php-38" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button"><span class="oo-ui-iconElement-icon oo-ui-icon-share oo-ui-image-progressive"></span><span class="oo-ui-labelElement-label">Reply</span><span class="oo-ui-indicatorElement-indicator oo-ui-indicatorElement-noIndicator oo-ui-image-progressive"></span></a></span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Wafflefrites-20240423133100-MWQs-20240611173400"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Selfstudier-20240611180300-Wafflefrites-20240423133100"></span>After some time to reflect, I think you are right, mainly because of the continuity argument, we would lose something of that in the process of a split. <a href="/wiki/User:Selfstudier" title="User:Selfstudier">Selfstudier</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Selfstudier" title="User talk:Selfstudier">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Al-Shifa_Hospital_siege#c-Selfstudier-20240611180300-Wafflefrites-20240423133100" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:03, 11 June 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Selfstudier-20240611180300-Wafflefrites-20240423133100"><span id="ooui-php-39" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button"><span class="oo-ui-iconElement-icon oo-ui-icon-share oo-ui-image-progressive"></span><span class="oo-ui-labelElement-label">Reply</span><span class="oo-ui-indicatorElement-indicator oo-ui-indicatorElement-noIndicator oo-ui-image-progressive"></span></a></span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Selfstudier-20240611180300-Wafflefrites-20240423133100"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Iskandar323-20240611180800-Selfstudier-20240611180300"></span>Continuity can be woven in with interlinks. That's not a reason to keep two separate, discrete events four months apart bound together. <a href="/wiki/User:Iskandar323" class="mw-redirect" title="User:Iskandar323">Iskandar323</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Iskandar323" title="User talk:Iskandar323">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Al-Shifa_Hospital_siege#c-Iskandar323-20240611180800-Selfstudier-20240611180300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:08, 11 June 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Iskandar323-20240611180800-Selfstudier-20240611180300"><span id="ooui-php-40" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button"><span class="oo-ui-iconElement-icon oo-ui-icon-share oo-ui-image-progressive"></span><span class="oo-ui-labelElement-label">Reply</span><span class="oo-ui-indicatorElement-indicator oo-ui-indicatorElement-noIndicator oo-ui-image-progressive"></span></a></span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Iskandar323-20240611180800-Selfstudier-20240611180300"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Selfstudier-20240611181400-Iskandar323-20240611180800"></span>Of course that's true in theory but even tho I have been around here for a while now, I still sometimes find the discontinuity in certain articles a little bit jarring, I sort of feel all the info should be together in one place. In this particular instance I am also more interested in the legal issues than the precise details of the attacks but that's just me. <a href="/wiki/User:Selfstudier" title="User:Selfstudier">Selfstudier</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Selfstudier" title="User talk:Selfstudier">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Al-Shifa_Hospital_siege#c-Selfstudier-20240611181400-Iskandar323-20240611180800" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:14, 11 June 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Selfstudier-20240611181400-Iskandar323-20240611180800"><span id="ooui-php-41" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button"><span class="oo-ui-iconElement-icon oo-ui-icon-share oo-ui-image-progressive"></span><span class="oo-ui-labelElement-label">Reply</span><span class="oo-ui-indicatorElement-indicator oo-ui-indicatorElement-noIndicator oo-ui-image-progressive"></span></a></span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Selfstudier-20240611181400-Iskandar323-20240611180800"></span></dd></dl></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Wafflefrites-20240611182700-Selfstudier-20240611180300"></span>I think both events should be in the article and the article should be renamed “Sieges on Al-Shifa Hospital in the Israel-Hamas War” or similar. Also, there more than two sieges. <a href="/wiki/User:Wafflefrites" title="User:Wafflefrites">Wafflefrites</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Wafflefrites" title="User talk:Wafflefrites">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Al-Shifa_Hospital_siege#c-Wafflefrites-20240611182700-Selfstudier-20240611180300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:27, 11 June 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Wafflefrites-20240611182700-Selfstudier-20240611180300"><span id="ooui-php-42" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button"><span class="oo-ui-iconElement-icon oo-ui-icon-share oo-ui-image-progressive"></span><span class="oo-ui-labelElement-label">Reply</span><span class="oo-ui-indicatorElement-indicator oo-ui-indicatorElement-noIndicator oo-ui-image-progressive"></span></a></span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Wafflefrites-20240611182700-Selfstudier-20240611180300"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Wafflefrites-20240611185700-Wafflefrites-20240611182700"></span>I can no longer find the source but I believe I read somewhere that the hospital had been raided multiple times. Now the more recent sources just focus on the two raids. <a href="/wiki/User:Wafflefrites" title="User:Wafflefrites">Wafflefrites</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Wafflefrites" title="User talk:Wafflefrites">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Al-Shifa_Hospital_siege#c-Wafflefrites-20240611185700-Wafflefrites-20240611182700" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:57, 11 June 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Wafflefrites-20240611185700-Wafflefrites-20240611182700"><span id="ooui-php-43" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button"><span class="oo-ui-iconElement-icon oo-ui-icon-share oo-ui-image-progressive"></span><span class="oo-ui-labelElement-label">Reply</span><span class="oo-ui-indicatorElement-indicator oo-ui-indicatorElement-noIndicator oo-ui-image-progressive"></span></a></span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Wafflefrites-20240611185700-Wafflefrites-20240611182700"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd> <dd><b><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Iskandar323-20240611181300-MWQs-20240611173400"></span>Support:</b> This material was originally clustered as events unfolded because it was unclear how significantly subsequent events would build upon the initial events. As it turns out they build upon it significantly and the page is now of a length that is more than some pretty in-depth topics. As the material has expanded, the splicing together of events four months apart as if they are one event has become more untenable and artificial. <a href="/wiki/User:Iskandar323" class="mw-redirect" title="User:Iskandar323">Iskandar323</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Iskandar323" title="User talk:Iskandar323">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Al-Shifa_Hospital_siege#c-Iskandar323-20240611181300-MWQs-20240611173400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:13, 11 June 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Iskandar323-20240611181300-MWQs-20240611173400"><span id="ooui-php-44" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button"><span class="oo-ui-iconElement-icon oo-ui-icon-share oo-ui-image-progressive"></span><span class="oo-ui-labelElement-label">Reply</span><span class="oo-ui-indicatorElement-indicator oo-ui-indicatorElement-noIndicator oo-ui-image-progressive"></span></a></span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Iskandar323-20240611181300-MWQs-20240611173400"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Selfstudier-20240611182000-Iskandar323-20240611181300"></span>A lot of stuff should be (or is) in <a href="/wiki/Alleged_military_use_of_al-Shifa_hospital" title="Alleged military use of al-Shifa hospital">Alleged military use of al-Shifa hospital</a>. At some point, that article needs to cleaned up and put in proper order (on my list of stuff I really should be doing). <a href="/wiki/User:Selfstudier" title="User:Selfstudier">Selfstudier</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Selfstudier" title="User talk:Selfstudier">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Al-Shifa_Hospital_siege#c-Selfstudier-20240611182000-Iskandar323-20240611181300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:20, 11 June 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Selfstudier-20240611182000-Iskandar323-20240611181300"><span id="ooui-php-45" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button"><span class="oo-ui-iconElement-icon oo-ui-icon-share oo-ui-image-progressive"></span><span class="oo-ui-labelElement-label">Reply</span><span class="oo-ui-indicatorElement-indicator oo-ui-indicatorElement-noIndicator oo-ui-image-progressive"></span></a></span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Selfstudier-20240611182000-Iskandar323-20240611181300"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Iskandar323-20240611185500-Selfstudier-20240611182000"></span>This page title should perhaps disambiguate to the two sieges. <a href="/wiki/User:Iskandar323" class="mw-redirect" title="User:Iskandar323">Iskandar323</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Iskandar323" title="User talk:Iskandar323">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Al-Shifa_Hospital_siege#c-Iskandar323-20240611185500-Selfstudier-20240611182000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:55, 11 June 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Iskandar323-20240611185500-Selfstudier-20240611182000"><span id="ooui-php-46" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button"><span class="oo-ui-iconElement-icon oo-ui-icon-share oo-ui-image-progressive"></span><span class="oo-ui-labelElement-label">Reply</span><span class="oo-ui-indicatorElement-indicator oo-ui-indicatorElement-noIndicator oo-ui-image-progressive"></span></a></span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Iskandar323-20240611185500-Selfstudier-20240611182000"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd> <dd><b><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Relspas-20240616055500-MWQs-20240611173400"></span>Oppose</b> - The term massacre is frequently defined as primarily civilian death, and as <a href="/wiki/User:Selfstudier" title="User:Selfstudier">Selfstudier</a> says, many of those who were killed were militants according to IDF: see <a rel="nofollow" class="external free" href="https://edition.cnn.com/2024/04/09/middleeast/israel-gaza-mass-graves-al-shifa-hospital-intl">https://edition.cnn.com/2024/04/09/middleeast/israel-gaza-mass-graves-al-shifa-hospital-intl</a>. There needs to be consensus to use this term. As multiple others are saying, siege is not an agreed upon term for the second IDF operation performed at the Al-Shifa hospital either, considering it is used more infrequently than "raid" among other news sources. A title rework would be in order if the page is split out. I oppose the page being split given the reasons provided by <a href="/wiki/User:Wafflefrites" title="User:Wafflefrites">Wafflefrites</a> and <a href="/wiki/User:Selfstudier" title="User:Selfstudier">Selfstudier</a>; primarily due to lost context. This section also needs rework before ever considering a migration: it is unclear whether content for each date was added because the relevant content added is bona fide, or just in order to have a news item that happens on every day, no matter its level of significance. The timeline of the Gaza-War has similar event density. This timeline style is not wiki-prose and should probably only be used in pages titled "Timeline of ..." <a href="/wiki/User:Relspas" title="User:Relspas">Relspas</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Relspas" title="User talk:Relspas">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Al-Shifa_Hospital_siege#c-Relspas-20240616055500-MWQs-20240611173400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">05:55, 16 June 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Relspas-20240616055500-MWQs-20240611173400"><span id="ooui-php-47" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button"><span class="oo-ui-iconElement-icon oo-ui-icon-share oo-ui-image-progressive"></span><span class="oo-ui-labelElement-label">Reply</span><span class="oo-ui-indicatorElement-indicator oo-ui-indicatorElement-noIndicator oo-ui-image-progressive"></span></a></span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Relspas-20240616055500-MWQs-20240611173400"></span></dd></dl> <p><s><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-FourPi-20240818032600-Split_proposed"></span>:<b>Strong support -</b> article is getting too long as the March events warrant their own page. Both should refer to each other in a hat note. <a href="/wiki/User:FourPi" title="User:FourPi">FourPi</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:FourPi" title="User talk:FourPi">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Al-Shifa_Hospital_siege#c-FourPi-20240818032600-Split_proposed" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">03:26, 18 August 2024 (UTC)</a></s><small>Sock</small><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-FourPi-20240818032600-Split_proposed"><span id="ooui-php-48" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button"><span class="oo-ui-iconElement-icon oo-ui-icon-share oo-ui-image-progressive"></span><span class="oo-ui-labelElement-label">Reply</span><span class="oo-ui-indicatorElement-indicator oo-ui-indicatorElement-noIndicator oo-ui-image-progressive"></span></a></span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-FourPi-20240818032600-Split_proposed"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Selfstudier-20241113184500-FourPi-20240818032600"></span>I said above I would prefer a split, it's not critical however and I don't think much is lost leaving it as is, so unless someone has some strong objection and even tho I am involved, I intend to close this as nocon after a week or so.<a href="/wiki/User:Selfstudier" title="User:Selfstudier">Selfstudier</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Selfstudier" title="User talk:Selfstudier">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Al-Shifa_Hospital_siege#c-Selfstudier-20241113184500-FourPi-20240818032600" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:45, 13 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Selfstudier-20241113184500-FourPi-20240818032600"><span id="ooui-php-49" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button"><span class="oo-ui-iconElement-icon oo-ui-icon-share oo-ui-image-progressive"></span><span class="oo-ui-labelElement-label">Reply</span><span class="oo-ui-indicatorElement-indicator oo-ui-indicatorElement-noIndicator oo-ui-image-progressive"></span></a></span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Selfstudier-20241113184500-FourPi-20240818032600"></span></dd></dl> <div style="padding-left: 1.6em; font-style: italic; border-top: 1px solid #a2a9b1; margin: 0.5em 0; padding-top: 0.5em">The discussion above is closed. <b style="color: var(--color-error, red);">Please do not modify it.</b> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.</div> </div><div style="clear:both;" class=""></div> </section><div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section section-heading" onclick="mfTempOpenSection(3)"><span class="indicator mf-icon mf-icon-expand mf-icon--small"></span><h2 id="Edit_request_-_clarify_casualties_in_the_info_box" data-mw-thread-id="h-Edit_request_-_clarify_casualties_in_the_info_box-20240630153600"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Edit_request_-_clarify_casualties_in_the_info_box-20240630153600"></span>Edit request - clarify casualties in the info box<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Edit_request_-_clarify_casualties_in_the_info_box-20240630153600"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"> <a role="button" href="/w/index.php?title=Talk:Al-Shifa_Hospital_siege&action=edit&section=3" title="Edit section: Edit request - clarify casualties in the info box" class="cdx-button cdx-button--size-large cdx-button--fake-button cdx-button--fake-button--enabled cdx-button--icon-only cdx-button--weight-quiet "> <span class="minerva-icon minerva-icon--edit"></span> <span>edit</span> </a> </span> <span id='ooui-php-57' class='ext-discussiontools-init-section-overflowMenuButton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-buttonWidget' data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonMenuSelectWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"ellipsis","data":{"itemConfigs":[{"id":"edit","data":{"id":"edit"},"icon":"edit","label":"Edit"}],"resourceLoaderModules":[]},"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-section-overflowMenuButton"]}'><a role='button' tabindex='0' rel='nofollow' class='oo-ui-buttonElement-button'><span class='oo-ui-iconElement-icon oo-ui-icon-ellipsis'></span><span class='oo-ui-labelElement-label'></span><span class='oo-ui-indicatorElement-indicator oo-ui-indicatorElement-noIndicator'></span></a></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"><span class='ext-discussiontools-init-section-metaitem ext-discussiontools-init-section-timestampLabel'>Latest comment: <a href="#c-Guy_Haddad_1-20240630153600-Edit_request_-_clarify_casualties_in_the_info_box">4 months ago</a></span><span class='ext-discussiontools-init-section-metaitem ext-discussiontools-init-section-commentCountLabel'>1 comment</span><span class='ext-discussiontools-init-section-metaitem ext-discussiontools-init-section-authorCountLabel'>1 person in discussion</span></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div><section class="mf-section-3 collapsible-block" id="mf-section-3"> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Guy_Haddad_1-20240630153600-Edit_request_-_clarify_casualties_in_the_info_box"></span>Please add to the casualties section in the info box that the listed casualties are from the second raid. Currently the info box creates wrong impression as these casualties are from the entire siege / 2 raids, and not only from the second one. </p><p>Justification: Both sources (<a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://www.nytimes.com/2024/04/01/world/middleeast/gaza-al-shifa-hospital.html">17</a>, <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://www.timesofisrael.com/idf-ends-shifa-hospital-raid-after-arresting-or-killing-hundreds-of-terror-operatives/">18</a>) clearly reference only the second raid, and not the entire siege / both raids. <a href="/wiki/User:Guy_Haddad_1" title="User:Guy Haddad 1">Guy Haddad 1</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Guy_Haddad_1" title="User talk:Guy Haddad 1">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Al-Shifa_Hospital_siege#c-Guy_Haddad_1-20240630153600-Edit_request_-_clarify_casualties_in_the_info_box" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:36, 30 June 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Guy_Haddad_1-20240630153600-Edit_request_-_clarify_casualties_in_the_info_box"><span id="ooui-php-50" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button"><span class="oo-ui-iconElement-icon oo-ui-icon-share oo-ui-image-progressive"></span><span class="oo-ui-labelElement-label">Reply</span><span class="oo-ui-indicatorElement-indicator oo-ui-indicatorElement-noIndicator oo-ui-image-progressive"></span></a></span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Guy_Haddad_1-20240630153600-Edit_request_-_clarify_casualties_in_the_info_box"></span> </p> </section><div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section section-heading" onclick="mfTempOpenSection(4)"><span class="indicator mf-icon mf-icon-expand mf-icon--small"></span><h2 id="200+_Militants_Killed?" data-mw-thread-id="h-200+_Militants_Killed?-20241109160700"><span id="200.2B_Militants_Killed.3F"></span><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-200+_Militants_Killed?-20241109160700"></span>200+ Militants Killed?<span data-mw-comment-end="h-200+_Militants_Killed?-20241109160700"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"> <a role="button" href="/w/index.php?title=Talk:Al-Shifa_Hospital_siege&action=edit&section=4" title="Edit section: 200+ Militants Killed?" class="cdx-button cdx-button--size-large cdx-button--fake-button cdx-button--fake-button--enabled cdx-button--icon-only cdx-button--weight-quiet "> <span class="minerva-icon minerva-icon--edit"></span> <span>edit</span> </a> </span> <span id='ooui-php-58' class='ext-discussiontools-init-section-overflowMenuButton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-buttonWidget' data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonMenuSelectWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"ellipsis","data":{"itemConfigs":[{"id":"edit","data":{"id":"edit"},"icon":"edit","label":"Edit"}],"resourceLoaderModules":[]},"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-section-overflowMenuButton"]}'><a role='button' tabindex='0' rel='nofollow' class='oo-ui-buttonElement-button'><span class='oo-ui-iconElement-icon oo-ui-icon-ellipsis'></span><span class='oo-ui-labelElement-label'></span><span class='oo-ui-indicatorElement-indicator oo-ui-indicatorElement-noIndicator'></span></a></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"><span class='ext-discussiontools-init-section-metaitem ext-discussiontools-init-section-timestampLabel'>Latest comment: <a href="#c-Sean.hoyland-20241109161200-24.229.111.34-20241109160700">18 days ago</a></span><span class='ext-discussiontools-init-section-metaitem ext-discussiontools-init-section-commentCountLabel'>2 comments</span><span class='ext-discussiontools-init-section-metaitem ext-discussiontools-init-section-authorCountLabel'>2 people in discussion</span></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div><section class="mf-section-4 collapsible-block" id="mf-section-4"> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-24.229.111.34-20241109160700-200+_Militants_Killed?"></span>This articles makes the claim that 200+ militants were killed by the IDF, using the IDF as a source. This has not been confirmed via independent investigation and therefore should not be taken as fact. The IDF has proven itself to be a completely unreliable source in relation to Al-Shifa given, frankly, its lies and propaganda surrounding the hospital’s status as a part of Hamas’ military infrastructure. Suggest changing this and other aspects of the article which seems to intentionally give the misleading impression that this was a setpiece battle between Hamas and the IDF. <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/24.229.111.34" title="Special:Contributions/24.229.111.34">24.229.111.34</a> (<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:24.229.111.34&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User talk:24.229.111.34 (page does not exist)">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Al-Shifa_Hospital_siege#c-24.229.111.34-20241109160700-200+_Militants_Killed?" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:07, 9 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-24.229.111.34-20241109160700-200+_Militants_Killed?"><span id="ooui-php-51" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button"><span class="oo-ui-iconElement-icon oo-ui-icon-share oo-ui-image-progressive"></span><span class="oo-ui-labelElement-label">Reply</span><span class="oo-ui-indicatorElement-indicator oo-ui-indicatorElement-noIndicator oo-ui-image-progressive"></span></a></span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-24.229.111.34-20241109160700-200+_Militants_Killed?"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Sean.hoyland-20241109161200-24.229.111.34-20241109160700"></span>In both instances, in the infobox and the text, the information about 200 militants is attributed to the Israeli military. That is how it works in Wikipedia. People can decide for themselves what to make of that. If there are alternative numbers from other sources, those can be included with attribution too. <a href="/wiki/User:Sean.hoyland" title="User:Sean.hoyland">Sean.hoyland</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Sean.hoyland" title="User talk:Sean.hoyland">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Al-Shifa_Hospital_siege#c-Sean.hoyland-20241109161200-24.229.111.34-20241109160700" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:12, 9 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Sean.hoyland-20241109161200-24.229.111.34-20241109160700"><span id="ooui-php-52" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button"><span class="oo-ui-iconElement-icon oo-ui-icon-share oo-ui-image-progressive"></span><span class="oo-ui-labelElement-label">Reply</span><span class="oo-ui-indicatorElement-indicator oo-ui-indicatorElement-noIndicator oo-ui-image-progressive"></span></a></span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Sean.hoyland-20241109161200-24.229.111.34-20241109160700"></span></dd></dl> </section><div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section section-heading" onclick="mfTempOpenSection(5)"><span class="indicator mf-icon mf-icon-expand mf-icon--small"></span><h2 id="Extended-confirmed-protected_edit_request_on_12_November_2024" data-mw-thread-id="h-Extended-confirmed-protected_edit_request_on_12_November_2024-20241112094200"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Extended-confirmed-protected_edit_request_on_12_November_2024-20241112094200"></span>Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 12 November 2024<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Extended-confirmed-protected_edit_request_on_12_November_2024-20241112094200"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"> <a role="button" href="/w/index.php?title=Talk:Al-Shifa_Hospital_siege&action=edit&section=5" title="Edit section: Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 12 November 2024" class="cdx-button cdx-button--size-large cdx-button--fake-button cdx-button--fake-button--enabled cdx-button--icon-only cdx-button--weight-quiet "> <span class="minerva-icon minerva-icon--edit"></span> <span>edit</span> </a> </span> <span id='ooui-php-59' class='ext-discussiontools-init-section-overflowMenuButton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-buttonWidget' data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonMenuSelectWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"ellipsis","data":{"itemConfigs":[{"id":"edit","data":{"id":"edit"},"icon":"edit","label":"Edit"}],"resourceLoaderModules":[]},"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-section-overflowMenuButton"]}'><a role='button' tabindex='0' rel='nofollow' class='oo-ui-buttonElement-button'><span class='oo-ui-iconElement-icon oo-ui-icon-ellipsis'></span><span class='oo-ui-labelElement-label'></span><span class='oo-ui-indicatorElement-indicator oo-ui-indicatorElement-noIndicator'></span></a></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"><span class='ext-discussiontools-init-section-metaitem ext-discussiontools-init-section-timestampLabel'>Latest comment: <a href="#c-M.Bitton-20241112153000-Reallygreatoaktree-20241112094200">15 days ago</a></span><span class='ext-discussiontools-init-section-metaitem ext-discussiontools-init-section-commentCountLabel'>2 comments</span><span class='ext-discussiontools-init-section-metaitem ext-discussiontools-init-section-authorCountLabel'>2 people in discussion</span></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div><section class="mf-section-5 collapsible-block" id="mf-section-5"> <span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Reallygreatoaktree-20241112094200-Extended-confirmed-protected_edit_request_on_12_November_2024"></span><link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1237879475"><table class="plainlinks tmbox mbox-small tmbox-notice editrequest" role="presentation" data-origlevel="extended"><tbody><tr><td class="mbox-image"><span typeof="mw:File"><span><noscript><img alt="" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/1/1d/Information_icon4.svg/30px-Information_icon4.svg.png" decoding="async" width="30" height="30" class="mw-file-element" data-file-width="620" data-file-height="620"></noscript><span class="lazy-image-placeholder" style="width: 30px;height: 30px;" data-src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/1/1d/Information_icon4.svg/30px-Information_icon4.svg.png" data-alt="" data-width="30" data-height="30" data-srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/1/1d/Information_icon4.svg/45px-Information_icon4.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/1/1d/Information_icon4.svg/60px-Information_icon4.svg.png 2x" data-class="mw-file-element"> </span></span></span></td><td class="mbox-text">This <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Edit_requests" title="Wikipedia:Edit requests">edit request</a> has been answered. Set the <code style="white-space: nowrap;">|answered=</code> or <code style="white-space: nowrap;">|ans=</code> parameter to <b>no</b> to reactivate your request.</td></tr></tbody></table> <p>Under Section Initial clashes and siege: Later a Palestinian doctor stated that 7 people had died following the strikes.[90] On the same day, it was reported that Israeli forces were at the gates of the hospital.[76] to Later a Palestinian doctor stated that 7 people had died following the strikes.[90] On the next day, it was reported that Israeli forces were at the gates of the hospital.[76] </p><p>(It was reported that the IDF brought the war to the gates on Saturday not Friday) <a href="/wiki/User:Reallygreatoaktree" title="User:Reallygreatoaktree">Reallygreatoaktree</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Reallygreatoaktree" title="User talk:Reallygreatoaktree">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Al-Shifa_Hospital_siege#c-Reallygreatoaktree-20241112094200-Extended-confirmed-protected_edit_request_on_12_November_2024" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">09:42, 12 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Reallygreatoaktree-20241112094200-Extended-confirmed-protected_edit_request_on_12_November_2024"><span id="ooui-php-53" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button"><span class="oo-ui-iconElement-icon oo-ui-icon-share oo-ui-image-progressive"></span><span class="oo-ui-labelElement-label">Reply</span><span class="oo-ui-indicatorElement-indicator oo-ui-indicatorElement-noIndicator oo-ui-image-progressive"></span></a></span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Reallygreatoaktree-20241112094200-Extended-confirmed-protected_edit_request_on_12_November_2024"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-M.Bitton-20241112153000-Reallygreatoaktree-20241112094200"></span><span typeof="mw:File"><span><noscript><img alt="" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/ea/Red_question_icon_with_gradient_background.svg/20px-Red_question_icon_with_gradient_background.svg.png" decoding="async" width="20" height="20" class="mw-file-element" data-file-width="62" data-file-height="62"></noscript><span class="lazy-image-placeholder" style="width: 20px;height: 20px;" data-src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/ea/Red_question_icon_with_gradient_background.svg/20px-Red_question_icon_with_gradient_background.svg.png" data-alt="" data-width="20" data-height="20" data-srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/ea/Red_question_icon_with_gradient_background.svg/30px-Red_question_icon_with_gradient_background.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/ea/Red_question_icon_with_gradient_background.svg/40px-Red_question_icon_with_gradient_background.svg.png 2x" data-class="mw-file-element"> </span></span></span> <b>Not done</b>: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. 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