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<style type="text/css">.recentcomments a{display:inline !important;padding:0 !important;margin:0 !important;}</style> <style type="text/css"> .recentcomments a { display: inline !important; padding: 0 !important; margin: 0 !important; } table.recentcommentsavatartop img.avatar, table.recentcommentsavatarend img.avatar { border: 0px; margin: 0; } table.recentcommentsavatartop a, table.recentcommentsavatarend a { border: 0px !important; background-color: transparent !important; } td.recentcommentsavatarend, td.recentcommentsavatartop { padding: 0px 0px 1px 0px; margin: 0px; } td.recentcommentstextend { border: none !important; padding: 0px 0px 2px 10px; } .rtl td.recentcommentstextend { padding: 0px 10px 2px 0px; } td.recentcommentstexttop { border: none; padding: 0px 0px 0px 10px; } .rtl td.recentcommentstexttop { padding: 0px 10px 0px 0px; } </style> <meta name="description" content="5 posts published by Matt Wedel and Mike Taylor during April 2010" /> <script>var _activityPubOptions = {"namespace":"wpcom\/activitypub-1.0","defaultAvatarUrl":"https:\/\/s2.wp.com\/wp-content\/plugins\/activitypub\/5.1.0\/assets\/img\/mp.jpg","enabled":{"site":true,"users":false}};</script></head> <body class="archive date customizer-styles-applied jetpack-reblog-enabled"> <div id="wrap"> <div id="header"> <h1><a href="https://svpow.com/">Sauropod Vertebra Picture of the Week</a></h1> <p class="description">SV-POW! … All sauropod vertebrae, except when we're talking about Open Access. ISSN 3033-3695</p> </div> <div id="content"> <div class="entry entry-1 post-2655 post type-post status-publish format-standard hentry category-cervical category-lazy category-navel-blogging category-rapetosaurus category-titanosaur" id="post-2655"> <div class="entrytitle"> <h2> <a href="https://svpow.com/2010/04/28/ch-ch-ch-changes/" rel="bookmark">Ch-ch-ch-changes</a> </h2> <h3>April 28, 2010</h3> </div> <div class="entrybody"> <p>This one’s mostly a housekeeping post, to keep you abreast of some notable developments with SV-POW!sketeers and friends.</p> <ul> <li><strong>Added April 29</strong> – I’m such a tool, forgot to mention that another awesomely niche-y blog has been unleashed on the paleo-blogosphere: <a href="http://fossilpenguins.wordpress.com/">March of the Fossil Penguins</a>, by our friend and sometime sauropod-describer Dan Ksepka. Go waggle your hydrodynamic forelimbs at him, I’m sure he’ll be happy to regurgitate some tasty posts for you.</li> <li>I’m tired of paying for sauroposeidon.net so I’m letting it lapse at the end of this week. I’ve already migrated my CV and papers to <a href="http://sauroposeidon.wordpress.com/">a new site</a>, where they will hopefully remain forever. As <a href="svpow.wordpress.com/2010/04/08/early-brachiosaurus-art/">previously noted</a>, <a href="http://marsh.dinodb.com/">The Marsh Repository</a> also has a new home.</li> <li><a href="http://www.askabiologist.org.uk/">Ask A Biologist</a> is back! Go make yourselves useful/satisfy your curiosity. Don’t forget to thank your friendly local <a href="http://archosaurmusings.wordpress.com/2010/04/21/yes-more-aab-but-more-general-sci-comms-stuff-too/">Dave Hone</a>.</li> <li>Mike’s new blog, <a href="http://reprog.wordpress.com/">The Reinvigorated Programmer</a>, is all of two months old and has already passed SV-POW! in total hits. So don’t give him any more link traffic. Instead, tell your friends how wonderful SV-POW! is!</li> <li>After two and a half years of weekly posts, we’ve decided to stop being so slavish about our titular obligation and will henceforth blog as frequently or infrequently as we please. We’re keeping the title, though. If you’re offended by that, you can backronym SV-POW! as Sauropod Vertebra Picture of the Whenever.</li> <li>Similarly, we’re going to start posting about sauropod skulls and appendicular bits from time to time. Not that we haven’t been doing that anyway–heck, even <a href="https://svpow.wordpress.com/2009/11/06/things-to-make-and-do-part-3b-wallaby-feet/">wallaby toes</a> are not safe from our roving curiosity–but we’re going to stop marking such posts off-topic and putting in obligatory sauropod vert photos.</li> </ul> <p>Don’t worry, though, we’ll still be mostly sauropod vertebrae, most of the time. And speaking of, here’s something lovely: a cervical of <em>Rapetosaurus</em>, from Curry Rogers (2009:fig. 5). Cool fossae, eh? Also, check out how dinky the centrum is compared to the neural arch.</p> <p><a href="https://svpow.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/rapetosaurus-cervical.jpg"><img data-attachment-id="2657" data-permalink="https://svpow.com/2010/04/28/ch-ch-ch-changes/rapetosaurus-cervical/" data-orig-file="https://svpow.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/rapetosaurus-cervical.jpg" data-orig-size="1441,643" data-comments-opened="1" data-image-meta="{"aperture":"0","credit":"","camera":"","caption":"","created_timestamp":"0","copyright":"","focal_length":"0","iso":"0","shutter_speed":"0","title":""}" data-image-title="Rapetosaurus cervical" data-image-description="" data-image-caption="" data-medium-file="https://svpow.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/rapetosaurus-cervical.jpg?w=300" data-large-file="https://svpow.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/rapetosaurus-cervical.jpg?w=480" class="aligncenter size-full wp-image-2657" title="Rapetosaurus cervical" src="https://svpow.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/rapetosaurus-cervical.jpg?w=480&h=214" alt="" width="480" height="214" srcset="https://svpow.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/rapetosaurus-cervical.jpg?w=480&h=214 480w, https://svpow.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/rapetosaurus-cervical.jpg?w=960&h=428 960w, https://svpow.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/rapetosaurus-cervical.jpg?w=150&h=67 150w, https://svpow.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/rapetosaurus-cervical.jpg?w=300&h=134 300w, https://svpow.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/rapetosaurus-cervical.jpg?w=768&h=343 768w" sizes="(max-width: 480px) 100vw, 480px" /></a></p> <p><strong>Reference</strong></p> <p>Curry Rogers, K. 2009. The postcranial osteology of <em>Rapetosaurus krausei </em>(Sauropoda: Titanosauria) from the Late Cretaceous of Madagascar. Journal of Vertebrate Paleontology 29(4):1046-1086.</p> </div> <div class="entrymeta"> <div class="postinfo"> <span class="postedby">Posted by Matt Wedel</span><br /> <span class="filedto">Filed in <a href="https://svpow.com/category/cervical/" rel="category tag">cervical</a>, <a href="https://svpow.com/category/lazy/" rel="category tag">lazy</a>, <a href="https://svpow.com/category/navel-blogging/" rel="category tag">navel blogging</a>, <a href="https://svpow.com/category/titanosaur/rapetosaurus/" rel="category tag">Rapetosaurus</a>, <a href="https://svpow.com/category/titanosaur/" rel="category tag">titanosaur</a></span><br /> </div> <a href="https://svpow.com/2010/04/28/ch-ch-ch-changes/#comments" class="commentslink" >11 Comments »</a> </div> </div> <div class="commentsblock"> </div> <div class="entry entry-2 post-2642 post type-post status-publish format-standard hentry category-dorsal category-rebbachisaurids category-shiny-digital-future" id="post-2642"> <div class="entrytitle"> <h2> <a href="https://svpow.com/2010/04/21/open-access-becoming-increasingly-inevitable/" rel="bookmark">Open access — becoming increasingly inevitable</a> </h2> <h3>April 21, 2010</h3> </div> <div class="entrybody"> <p>Here at SV-POW! Towers, we have <a href="https://svpow.wordpress.com/2009/06/01/choosing-a-journal-for-the-neck-posture-paper-why-open-access-is-important/">often lamented</a> that so much dinosaur research is <a href="https://svpow.wordpress.com/2009/09/03/right-thats-it-time-for-the-revolution/">locked up behind the paywalls</a> of big for-profit commercial publishers, and that even work that’s been funded by public money is often not available to the public.</p> <p>One of the quiet delights of the last couple of years has been watching the hide-research-from-researchers edifice slowly crumbling, and indeed we have a whole section of the site dedicated to that very thing: the <a href="https://svpow.wordpress.com/the-digital-future/">Shiny Digital Future</a>. The process is slow, which should surprise nobody given that large, powerful, profit-motivated corporations are trying to prevent it, but it does feel <a href="https://svpow.wordpress.com/2009/04/17/off-topic-non-open-academic-publishing-is-dead/">increasingly inevitable</a>.</p> <p>This week has brought two more steps towards the open-access utopia: one of them specific and immediate, the other more long term but potentially much more far-reaching.</p> <ul> <li>In the immediate, the New Mexico Museum of Natural History has made all issues of its Bulletin up to 2008 <a href="http://econtent.unm.edu/cdm4/browse.php?CISOROOT=%2Fbulletins&CISOSORT=subjec|f">freely available</a>. Although the quality of the articles in these issues is hugely variable, there is a lot of good and important stuff in there, and it’s a boon to the community that they are now open to anyone who wants to read them.</li> <li>I just heard today about the <a href="http://www.taxpayeraccess.org/issues/frpaa/frpaa_action/10-0416.shtml">Federal Research Public Access Act (HR 5037)</a>, brought before Congress six days ago by a bipartisan group of six representatives (four Democrats and two Republicans). If passed it would ensure that all research funded by eleven U.S. federal agencies was made open-access. If you’re American, follow the link to see what you do to help ensure that it’s passed!</li> </ul> <p>As Galadriel said, the world is changing.</p> <div data-shortcode="caption" id="attachment_2643" style="width: 490px" class="wp-caption alignnone"><a href="https://svpow.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/mannion2010-fig5-nopcsaspondylus.jpeg"><img aria-describedby="caption-attachment-2643" data-attachment-id="2643" data-permalink="https://svpow.com/2010/04/21/open-access-becoming-increasingly-inevitable/mannion2010-fig5-nopcsaspondylus/" data-orig-file="https://svpow.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/mannion2010-fig5-nopcsaspondylus.jpeg" data-orig-size="756,445" data-comments-opened="1" data-image-meta="{"aperture":"0","credit":"","camera":"","caption":"","created_timestamp":"0","copyright":"","focal_length":"0","iso":"0","shutter_speed":"0","title":""}" data-image-title="Mannion2010-fig5-nopcsaspondylus" data-image-description="" data-image-caption="<p>Holotype dorsal vertebra of Nopcsaspondylus</p> " data-medium-file="https://svpow.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/mannion2010-fig5-nopcsaspondylus.jpeg?w=300" data-large-file="https://svpow.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/mannion2010-fig5-nopcsaspondylus.jpeg?w=480" class="size-full wp-image-2643" title="Mannion2010-fig5-nopcsaspondylus" src="https://svpow.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/mannion2010-fig5-nopcsaspondylus.jpeg?w=480&h=282" alt="" width="480" height="282" srcset="https://svpow.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/mannion2010-fig5-nopcsaspondylus.jpeg?w=480&h=282 480w, https://svpow.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/mannion2010-fig5-nopcsaspondylus.jpeg?w=150&h=88 150w, https://svpow.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/mannion2010-fig5-nopcsaspondylus.jpeg?w=300&h=177 300w, https://svpow.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/mannion2010-fig5-nopcsaspondylus.jpeg 756w" sizes="(max-width: 480px) 100vw, 480px" /></a><p id="caption-attachment-2643" class="wp-caption-text">Holotype dorsal vertebra of Nopcsaspondylus, apparently, from Mannion (2010:fig. 5), although it bears little resemblance to Apesteguia (2007:fig. 2) which is the illustration of that element in the paper that named the genus. Mannion's figure seems to be reproduced from Nopcsa (1902), which I really ought to get hold of so I can check this for myself. Ever notice how Haplocanthosaurusy rebbachisaurid dorsals look? Just sayin', is all.</p></div> <p>Finally: I know that whenever we talk about proprietary publishers, I always tell people to go and read <a href="http://www.scottaaronson.com/writings/journal.html">Scott Aaronson’s essay on the subject</a>, but seriously: if you’ve not read it before, go and read it now. It’s brilliant.</p> <h2>Update (22 April 2010)</h2> <p>Thanks to Phil for the clarification below on whether the pictured vertebra is or is not the <em>Nopcsaspondylus holotype</em> (it is). Phil also sent me a scan of Nopcsa’s original figure of this plate, which is rather better than the reduced version that made it into the new paper, so here it is!</p> <div data-shortcode="caption" id="attachment_2652" style="width: 490px" class="wp-caption alignnone"><a href="https://svpow.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/nopcsa0002.jpg"><img aria-describedby="caption-attachment-2652" data-attachment-id="2652" data-permalink="https://svpow.com/2010/04/21/open-access-becoming-increasingly-inevitable/nopcsa0002/" data-orig-file="https://svpow.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/nopcsa0002.jpg" data-orig-size="1746,1267" data-comments-opened="1" data-image-meta="{"aperture":"0","credit":"","camera":"","caption":"","created_timestamp":"0","copyright":"","focal_length":"0","iso":"0","shutter_speed":"0","title":""}" data-image-title="Nopcsa0002" data-image-description="" data-image-caption="<p>Definitely the holotype dorsal vertebra of Nopcsasopondulus, from Nopcsa (1902)</p> " data-medium-file="https://svpow.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/nopcsa0002.jpg?w=300" data-large-file="https://svpow.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/nopcsa0002.jpg?w=480" class="size-full wp-image-2652" title="Nopcsa0002" src="https://svpow.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/nopcsa0002.jpg?w=480&h=348" alt="" width="480" height="348" srcset="https://svpow.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/nopcsa0002.jpg?w=480&h=348 480w, https://svpow.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/nopcsa0002.jpg?w=960&h=696 960w, https://svpow.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/nopcsa0002.jpg?w=150&h=109 150w, https://svpow.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/nopcsa0002.jpg?w=300&h=218 300w, https://svpow.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/nopcsa0002.jpg?w=768&h=557 768w" sizes="(max-width: 480px) 100vw, 480px" /></a><p id="caption-attachment-2652" class="wp-caption-text">Definitely the holotype dorsal vertebra of Nopcsasopondylus, from Nopcsa (1902). Still looking kind of Haplocanthosaurusy. The main differences apparent here seem to be that this vertebra has a more vertically compressed centrum and more medially directed SPOLs than the Haplo dorsals. Still, I find myself wondering how many steps it would take to move Haplo into a basal rebbachisaurid position. Funny, really, Rebbachisauridae is just about the only sauropod clade that it hasn't been referred to.</p></div> </div> <div class="entrymeta"> <div class="postinfo"> <span class="postedby">Posted by Mike Taylor</span><br /> <span class="filedto">Filed in <a href="https://svpow.com/category/dorsal/" rel="category tag">dorsal</a>, <a href="https://svpow.com/category/rebbachisaurids/" rel="category tag">rebbachisaurids</a>, <a href="https://svpow.com/category/shiny-digital-future/" rel="category tag">Shiny digital future</a></span><br /> </div> <a href="https://svpow.com/2010/04/21/open-access-becoming-increasingly-inevitable/#comments" class="commentslink" >8 Comments »</a> </div> </div> <div class="commentsblock"> </div> <div class="entry entry-3 post-2631 post type-post status-publish format-standard hentry category-argentinosaurus category-diplodocids category-dorsal category-mass-estimates category-stinkin-mammals category-supersaurus category-titanosaur" id="post-2631"> <div class="entrytitle"> <h2> <a href="https://svpow.com/2010/04/15/argentinosaurus-smaller-than-you-think/" rel="bookmark"><i>Argentinosaurus</i>: smaller than you think?</a> </h2> <h3>April 15, 2010</h3> </div> <div class="entrybody"> <div data-shortcode="caption" id="attachment_2634" style="width: 370px" class="wp-caption aligncenter"><a href="https://svpow.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/argentinosaurus-and-friends.jpg"><img aria-describedby="caption-attachment-2634" data-attachment-id="2634" data-permalink="https://svpow.com/2010/04/15/argentinosaurus-smaller-than-you-think/argentinosaurus-and-friends/" data-orig-file="https://svpow.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/argentinosaurus-and-friends.jpg" data-orig-size="360,252" data-comments-opened="1" data-image-meta="{"aperture":"0","credit":"","camera":"","caption":"","created_timestamp":"0","copyright":"","focal_length":"0","iso":"0","shutter_speed":"0","title":""}" data-image-title="Argentinosaurus and friends" data-image-description="" data-image-caption="" data-medium-file="https://svpow.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/argentinosaurus-and-friends.jpg?w=300" data-large-file="https://svpow.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/argentinosaurus-and-friends.jpg?w=360" loading="lazy" class="size-full wp-image-2634" title="Argentinosaurus and friends" src="https://svpow.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/argentinosaurus-and-friends.jpg?w=480" alt="" srcset="https://svpow.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/argentinosaurus-and-friends.jpg 360w, https://svpow.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/argentinosaurus-and-friends.jpg?w=150&h=105 150w, https://svpow.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/argentinosaurus-and-friends.jpg?w=300&h=210 300w" sizes="(max-width: 360px) 100vw, 360px" /></a><p id="caption-attachment-2634" class="wp-caption-text">Dorsal vertebrae from Argentinosaurus (center) and Supersaurus (either side). The vert on the left is the holotype of Ultrasauros, and the one on the right is the holotype of Dystylosaurus, but both of those taxa have been sunk into Supersaurus. Found on teh intert00bz.</p></div> <p style="text-align:center;"> <p>As often happens here, a comment thread got to be more interesting than the original post and ended up deserving a post of its own. In this case, I’m talking about the thread following the recent <a href="https://svpow.wordpress.com/2010/03/30/mamenchisaurus-tail-club-again/"><em>Mamenchisaurus </em>tail club post</a>, which got into some interesting territory regarding mass estimates for the largest sauropods. This post was inspired by a couple of comments in particular.</p> <p>Zach Armstrong <a href="https://svpow.wordpress.com/2010/03/30/mamenchisaurus-tail-club-again/#comment-6416">wrote</a>:</p> <blockquote><p>I don’t trust Mazzetta et al.’s (2004) estimate, because it is based off of logarithmic-based regression analyses of certain bone lengths, which a recent paper by Packard et al. (2009) have shown to overestimate the mass by as much as 100 percent! This would mean the estimate of 73 tonnes given my Mazzetta would be reduced to 36 tonnes.</p></blockquote> <p>To which Mike <a href="https://svpow.wordpress.com/2010/03/30/mamenchisaurus-tail-club-again/#comment-6420">replied</a>:</p> <blockquote><p>Zach, Mazzetta et al. used a variety of different techniques in arriving at their <em>Argentinosaurus </em>mass estimate, cross-checked them against each other and tested their lines for quality of fit. I am not saying their work is perfect (whose is?) but I would certainly not write it off as readily as you seem to have.</p></blockquote> <p>Weeeeell…Mazzetta et al. did use a variety of measurements to make their mass estimates, but they did it in a way that hardly puts them above criticism. First, their estimates are based on limb-bone allometry, which is known to have fairly low accuracy and precision (like, often off by a factor of 2, as Zach noted in his comment). Second, the “raw data” for their allometric equation consists of <em>volumetric</em> mass estimates. So their primary estimation method was calibrated against…more estimates. Maybe I’m just lazy, but I would have skipped the second step and just used volumetric methods throughout. Still, I can see the logic in it for critters like <em>Argentinosaurus</em> where we have limb bones but no real idea of the overall form or proportions of the entire animal.</p> <p>Anyway, the accuracy of their allometric estimates is intertwingled with their volumetric results, so if their volumetric estimates are off…. The volumetric estimates used a specific gravity of 0.95, which to me is unrealistically high. Taking into account the skeletal pneumaticity alone would lower that to 0.85 or 0.8, and if the critter had air sacs comparable to those of birds, 0.75 or even 0.7 is not beyond the bounds of possibility (as discussed <a href="https://svpow.wordpress.com/2009/03/16/brachiosaurus-both-bigger-and-smaller-than-you-think-incomplete/">here</a> and also covered by Zach in his comment).</p> <p>Now, Mazzetta et al. (2004) were not ignorant of the potential effects of pneumaticity. Here’s what they wrote about density (p. 5):</p> <blockquote><p>The values from Christiansen (1997) were recalculated using a slightly higher overall density (950 kg/m^3), as the 900 kg/m^3 used in that paper may be slightly too low. Most neosauropods have extensively pneumatised vertebrae, particularly the cervicals, which would tend to lower overall density. However, these animals are also very large, implying a proportionally greater amount of skeletal tissue (Christiansen, 2002), particularly appendicular skeletal tissue, and consequently, they should have had a higher overall density.</p></blockquote> <p>This is pretty interesting: they are arguing that the positive allometry of skeletal mass as a fraction of body mass–which is well documented in extant critters–would offset the mass reduction from pneumaticity in animals as big as sauropods. I haven’t given that enough thought, and I definitely need to. My guess–and it is a guess–is that the effects of skeletal allometry were not enough to undo the lightening imposed by both PSP (~10%) and pulmonary air sacs (another ~10%, separate from the lungs), but I haven’t done any math on this yet. Fodder for another post, I reckon.</p> <p>Getting back to Mazzetta et al., some of the volumes themselves strike me as too high, like ~41,500 liters for HM SII. That’s a LOT more voluminous than Greg Paul, Don Henderson, or Mike found for the same critter. The 16 metric ton <em>Diplodocus </em>and 20.6 metric ton <em>Apatosaurus </em>used by Mazzetta et al. are also outside the bounds of other recent and careful estimates. Not necessarily wrong, but definitely at the upper end of the current spectrum.</p> <p>Mazzetta et al. got a mass estimate of 73,000 kg for <em>Argentinosaurus</em>, but (1) they used a density that I <em>think </em>is probably too high even if skeletal allometry is considered, (2) at least some of the volumetric mass estimates that form the “data” for the limb-bone regressions are probably too high, and (3) even if those problems were dealt with, there is still the general untrustworthiness of limb-bone regression as a mass estimation technique. 1 and 2, if fixed to my satisfaction, would tend to push the estimated mass of <em>Argentinosaurus </em>down, perhaps significantly (the effect of 3 is, if not unknowable, at least unknown to me). Given that, Zach’s ~52 metric ton estimate for <em>Argentinosaurus </em>is very defensible. (Probably worth remembering that I am a sparse-wing fanatic, though.)</p> <p>None of this means that Mazzetta et al. (2004) were sloppy or that their estimate is wrong. Indeed, one of the reasons that we can have such a deep discussion of these points is that every link in their chain is so well documented. And there is room for honest disagreement in areas where the fossils don’t constrain things as much as we’d like. You cannot simply take a skeleton, even a complete one, and get a single whole-body volume. The body masses of wild animals often fluctuate by a <em>third </em>over the course of a single year, which pretty well buries any hope of getting precise estimates based on skeletons alone. And no one knows how dense–or sparse–sauropods were. I haven’t actually done any math to gauge the competing effects of skeletal allometry on one hand and PSP and air sacs on the other–and, AFAIK, no one else has either (Mazzetta et al. were guessing about pneumaticity as much as I’m guessing about skeletal allometry). Finally, <em>Argentinosaurus </em>is known from a handful of vertebrae and a handful of limb bones and that’s all, at least for now. If we can’t get a single body volume even when we have a complete skeleton, we have to get real about how precise we can be in cases where we have far less material.</p> <p>The upshot is not that <em>Argentinosaurus </em>massed 73 metric tons or 52 or any other specific number. As usual, the two-part take home message is that (1) mass estimates of sauropods <a href="https://svpow.wordpress.com/2010/02/19/how-big-was-amphicoelias-fragillimus-i-mean-really/">are <em>inherently </em>imprecise</a>, so all we can do is make our assumptions as clear as possible, and (2) even the biggest sauropods might have been <a href="https://svpow.wordpress.com/2009/03/16/brachiosaurus-both-bigger-and-smaller-than-you-think-incomplete/">smaller than you think</a>. ;-)</p> <p><strong>Reference</strong></p> <p>Mazzetta, G.V., Christiansen, P., and Farina, R.A. 2004. Giants and bizarres: body size of some southern South American Cretaceous dinosaurs. Historical Biology 2004:1-13.</p> </div> <div class="entrymeta"> <div class="postinfo"> <span class="postedby">Posted by Matt Wedel</span><br /> <span class="filedto">Filed in <a href="https://svpow.com/category/titanosaur/argentinosaurus/" rel="category tag">Argentinosaurus</a>, <a href="https://svpow.com/category/diplodocids/" rel="category tag">diplodocids</a>, <a href="https://svpow.com/category/dorsal/" rel="category tag">dorsal</a>, <a href="https://svpow.com/category/mass-estimates/" rel="category tag">mass estimates</a>, <a href="https://svpow.com/category/stinkin-mammals/" rel="category tag">stinkin' mammals</a>, <a href="https://svpow.com/category/diplodocids/supersaurus/" rel="category tag">Supersaurus</a>, <a href="https://svpow.com/category/titanosaur/" rel="category tag">titanosaur</a></span><br /> </div> <a href="https://svpow.com/2010/04/15/argentinosaurus-smaller-than-you-think/#comments" class="commentslink" >20 Comments »</a> </div> </div> <div class="commentsblock"> </div> <div class="entry entry-4 post-2114 post type-post status-publish format-standard hentry category-brachiosaurus category-life-restorations category-skeletal-reconstructions" id="post-2114"> <div class="entrytitle"> <h2> <a href="https://svpow.com/2010/04/08/early-brachiosaurus-art/" rel="bookmark">Early Brachiosaurus art</a> </h2> <h3>April 8, 2010</h3> </div> <div class="entrybody"> <p>Most people think of Janensch’s (1950b) plate VIII as being the first skeletal reconstruction of “<em>Brachiosaurus</em>” (although Janensch’s species “<em>Brachiosaurus</em>” <em>brancai</em> is <a href="https://svpow.wordpress.com/2009/09/09/brachiosaurus-brancai-is-not-brachiosaurus/">now referred to the separate genus </a><em><a href="https://svpow.wordpress.com/2009/09/09/brachiosaurus-brancai-is-not-brachiosaurus/">Giraffatitan</a></em>). And it certainly is a classic:</p> <div data-shortcode="caption" id="attachment_2616" style="width: 490px" class="wp-caption alignnone"><a href="https://svpow.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/janensch1950b-plate-viii-brachiosaurus-brancai-reconstruction.jpeg"><img aria-describedby="caption-attachment-2616" data-attachment-id="2616" data-permalink="https://svpow.com/2010/04/08/early-brachiosaurus-art/janensch1950b-plate-viii-brachiosaurus-brancai-reconstruction-2/" data-orig-file="https://svpow.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/janensch1950b-plate-viii-brachiosaurus-brancai-reconstruction.jpeg" data-orig-size="1280,881" data-comments-opened="1" data-image-meta="{"aperture":"0","credit":"","camera":"","caption":"","created_timestamp":"0","copyright":"","focal_length":"0","iso":"0","shutter_speed":"0","title":""}" data-image-title="Janensch1950b-plate-VIII-brachiosaurus-brancai-reconstruction" data-image-description="" data-image-caption="<p>“Brachiosaurus” brancai (i.e. Giraffatitan) classic skeletal reconstruction (Janensch 1950b: plate VIII)</p> " data-medium-file="https://svpow.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/janensch1950b-plate-viii-brachiosaurus-brancai-reconstruction.jpeg?w=300" data-large-file="https://svpow.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/janensch1950b-plate-viii-brachiosaurus-brancai-reconstruction.jpeg?w=480" loading="lazy" class="size-full wp-image-2616" title="Janensch1950b-plate-VIII-brachiosaurus-brancai-reconstruction" src="https://svpow.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/janensch1950b-plate-viii-brachiosaurus-brancai-reconstruction.jpeg?w=480&h=330" alt="" width="480" height="330" srcset="https://svpow.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/janensch1950b-plate-viii-brachiosaurus-brancai-reconstruction.jpeg?w=480&h=330 480w, https://svpow.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/janensch1950b-plate-viii-brachiosaurus-brancai-reconstruction.jpeg?w=960&h=660 960w, https://svpow.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/janensch1950b-plate-viii-brachiosaurus-brancai-reconstruction.jpeg?w=150&h=103 150w, https://svpow.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/janensch1950b-plate-viii-brachiosaurus-brancai-reconstruction.jpeg?w=300&h=206 300w, https://svpow.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/janensch1950b-plate-viii-brachiosaurus-brancai-reconstruction.jpeg?w=768&h=529 768w" sizes="(max-width: 480px) 100vw, 480px" /></a><p id="caption-attachment-2616" class="wp-caption-text">"Brachiosaurus" brancai (i.e. Giraffatitan) classic skeletal reconstruction (Janensch 1950b: plate VIII)</p></div> <p>But the reconstruction published in 1950 is modelled on the physical mount of the specimen HMN SII, which not only was constructed much earlier, but was even published as a photograph in Janensch’s (1938) earlier paper on the mass of his species. Comparing the drawing (above) with the photograph (below), it’s easy to see how closely they resemble each other, not only in proportions but in pose:</p> <div data-shortcode="caption" id="attachment_2617" style="width: 489px" class="wp-caption alignnone"><a href="https://svpow.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/janensch1938-fig1-brachiosaurus-mount.jpeg"><img aria-describedby="caption-attachment-2617" data-attachment-id="2617" data-permalink="https://svpow.com/2010/04/08/early-brachiosaurus-art/janensch1938-fig1-brachiosaurus-mount/" data-orig-file="https://svpow.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/janensch1938-fig1-brachiosaurus-mount.jpeg" data-orig-size="1606,1140" data-comments-opened="1" data-image-meta="{"aperture":"0","credit":"","camera":"","caption":"","created_timestamp":"0","copyright":"","focal_length":"0","iso":"0","shutter_speed":"0","title":""}" data-image-title="Janensch1938-fig1-brachiosaurus-mount" data-image-description="" data-image-caption="<p>J38</p> " data-medium-file="https://svpow.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/janensch1938-fig1-brachiosaurus-mount.jpeg?w=300" data-large-file="https://svpow.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/janensch1938-fig1-brachiosaurus-mount.jpeg?w=480" loading="lazy" class="size-full wp-image-2617" title="Janensch1938-fig1-brachiosaurus-mount" src="https://svpow.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/janensch1938-fig1-brachiosaurus-mount.jpeg?w=480" alt="" srcset="https://svpow.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/janensch1938-fig1-brachiosaurus-mount.jpeg?w=479&h=340 479w, https://svpow.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/janensch1938-fig1-brachiosaurus-mount.jpeg?w=958&h=680 958w, https://svpow.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/janensch1938-fig1-brachiosaurus-mount.jpeg?w=150&h=106 150w, https://svpow.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/janensch1938-fig1-brachiosaurus-mount.jpeg?w=300&h=213 300w, https://svpow.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/janensch1938-fig1-brachiosaurus-mount.jpeg?w=768&h=545 768w" sizes="(max-width: 479px) 100vw, 479px" /></a><p id="caption-attachment-2617" class="wp-caption-text">"Brachiosaurus" brancai (i.e. Giraffatitan) mounted skeleton in the Humboldt Museum fur Naturkunde, Berlin; photograph from Janensch (1938: fig 1)</p></div> <p>Yet less well known is that when the mount was completed, shortly before the start of World War II, it was unveiled against a backdrop of Nazi banners. I have not been able to find a photograph of this (and if anyone has one, please do let me know), but I do have this drawing of the event, taken from an Italian magazine and dated 23rd December 1937. Since the date stamp is marked “Zoolog. Museum Berlin”, I guess that is the date that a museum artist executed the drawing, or maybe when a copy was released by the museum to the magazine. Once again, I don’t know, and would welcome clarification. Anyway, here it is:</p> <p><a href="https://svpow.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/giraffatitan-skeleton-unveiled-with-nazi-banners.jpeg"><img data-attachment-id="2620" data-permalink="https://svpow.com/2010/04/08/early-brachiosaurus-art/giraffatitan-skeleton-unveiled-with-nazi-banners/" data-orig-file="https://svpow.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/giraffatitan-skeleton-unveiled-with-nazi-banners.jpeg" data-orig-size="1296,1851" data-comments-opened="1" data-image-meta="{"aperture":"0","credit":"","camera":"","caption":"","created_timestamp":"0","copyright":"","focal_length":"0","iso":"0","shutter_speed":"0","title":""}" data-image-title="Giraffatitan-skeleton-unveiled-with-nazi-banners" data-image-description="" data-image-caption="" data-medium-file="https://svpow.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/giraffatitan-skeleton-unveiled-with-nazi-banners.jpeg?w=210" data-large-file="https://svpow.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/giraffatitan-skeleton-unveiled-with-nazi-banners.jpeg?w=480" loading="lazy" class="alignnone size-full wp-image-2620" title="Giraffatitan-skeleton-unveiled-with-nazi-banners" src="https://svpow.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/giraffatitan-skeleton-unveiled-with-nazi-banners.jpeg?w=480&h=685" alt="" width="480" height="685" srcset="https://svpow.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/giraffatitan-skeleton-unveiled-with-nazi-banners.jpeg?w=480&h=685 480w, https://svpow.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/giraffatitan-skeleton-unveiled-with-nazi-banners.jpeg?w=960&h=1370 960w, https://svpow.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/giraffatitan-skeleton-unveiled-with-nazi-banners.jpeg?w=105&h=150 105w, https://svpow.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/giraffatitan-skeleton-unveiled-with-nazi-banners.jpeg?w=210&h=300 210w, https://svpow.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/giraffatitan-skeleton-unveiled-with-nazi-banners.jpeg?w=768&h=1097 768w, https://svpow.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/giraffatitan-skeleton-unveiled-with-nazi-banners.jpeg?w=717&h=1024 717w" sizes="(max-width: 480px) 100vw, 480px" /></a></p> <p>So we have a published photograph and a published drawing of a brachiosaur skeleton that predate Janensch’s (1950b) reconstruction, but was there an earlier actual skeletal reconstruction? Indeed there was: Matthew’s (1915) popular book included what I believe was the first ever brachiosaur reconstruction, and here it is:</p> <div data-shortcode="caption" id="attachment_2615" style="width: 490px" class="wp-caption alignnone"><a href="https://svpow.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/matthew1915-fig24-brachiosaurus.jpeg"><img aria-describedby="caption-attachment-2615" data-attachment-id="2615" data-permalink="https://svpow.com/2010/04/08/early-brachiosaurus-art/matthew1915-fig24-brachiosaurus/" data-orig-file="https://svpow.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/matthew1915-fig24-brachiosaurus.jpeg" data-orig-size="900,692" data-comments-opened="1" data-image-meta="{"aperture":"0","credit":"","camera":"","caption":"","created_timestamp":"0","copyright":"","focal_length":"0","iso":"0","shutter_speed":"0","title":""}" data-image-title="Matthew1915-fig24-brachiosaurus" data-image-description="" data-image-caption="<p>Brachiosaurus skeletal reconstruction, from Matthew (1915: fig. 24)</p> " data-medium-file="https://svpow.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/matthew1915-fig24-brachiosaurus.jpeg?w=300" data-large-file="https://svpow.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/matthew1915-fig24-brachiosaurus.jpeg?w=480" loading="lazy" class="size-full wp-image-2615" title="Matthew1915-fig24-brachiosaurus" src="https://svpow.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/matthew1915-fig24-brachiosaurus.jpeg?w=480&h=369" alt="" width="480" height="369" srcset="https://svpow.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/matthew1915-fig24-brachiosaurus.jpeg?w=480&h=369 480w, https://svpow.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/matthew1915-fig24-brachiosaurus.jpeg?w=150&h=115 150w, https://svpow.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/matthew1915-fig24-brachiosaurus.jpeg?w=300&h=231 300w, https://svpow.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/matthew1915-fig24-brachiosaurus.jpeg?w=768&h=591 768w, https://svpow.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/matthew1915-fig24-brachiosaurus.jpeg 900w" sizes="(max-width: 480px) 100vw, 480px" /></a><p id="caption-attachment-2615" class="wp-caption-text">Composite Brachiosaurus skeletal reconstruction, from Matthew (1915: fig. 24)</p></div> <p>Matthew’s caption to this figure says that it is “from specimens in the Field Museum in Chicago and the Natural History Museum in Berlin”, i.e. it incorporates elements from both <em>Brachiosaurus</em> proper (<em>B</em>. <em>altithorax</em>) and the Tanzanian species “<em>Brachiosaurus</em>” <em>brancai</em>. And if you’re familiar with the fossils in question, that’s evidently the case: for example, the scapula is clearly based on HMN Sa 9, and the posterior dorsals are unmistakably those of FMNH P25107. [The inclusion of those dorsals fulfils our weekly sauropod-vertebra picture mandate, in case you were wondering.]</p> <p>This is pretty impressive work, especially given that it was published one year after Janensch’s (1914) preliminary short paper on the Tendaguru Formation’s fossils. Since that initial report did not figure the scapula Sa 9, it’s tempting to imagine that Matthew or his artist must have visited Berlin and seen the material in person; but as this was in the middle of World War I, that seems unlikely. Does anyone know the story here?</p> <p>And finally, we come to what is probably the first life restoration of <em>Brachiosaurus</em> or any brachiosaur. It’s the work of Abel, and I found it in Young (1975: page 4):</p> <div data-shortcode="caption" id="attachment_2614" style="width: 490px" class="wp-caption alignnone"><a href="https://svpow.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/young1975-p4-brachiosaurus-from-abel.jpeg"><img aria-describedby="caption-attachment-2614" data-attachment-id="2614" data-permalink="https://svpow.com/2010/04/08/early-brachiosaurus-art/young1975-p4-brachiosaurus-from-abel/" data-orig-file="https://svpow.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/young1975-p4-brachiosaurus-from-abel.jpeg" data-orig-size="672,909" data-comments-opened="1" data-image-meta="{"aperture":"0","credit":"","camera":"","caption":"","created_timestamp":"0","copyright":"","focal_length":"0","iso":"0","shutter_speed":"0","title":""}" data-image-title="Young1975-p4-brachiosaurus-from-abel" data-image-description="" data-image-caption="<p>Abel’s restoration of Brachiosaurus, undated, from Young (1975) page 4</p> " data-medium-file="https://svpow.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/young1975-p4-brachiosaurus-from-abel.jpeg?w=222" data-large-file="https://svpow.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/young1975-p4-brachiosaurus-from-abel.jpeg?w=480" loading="lazy" class="size-full wp-image-2614" title="Young1975-p4-brachiosaurus-from-abel" src="https://svpow.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/young1975-p4-brachiosaurus-from-abel.jpeg?w=480&h=649" alt="" width="480" height="649" srcset="https://svpow.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/young1975-p4-brachiosaurus-from-abel.jpeg?w=480&h=649 480w, https://svpow.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/young1975-p4-brachiosaurus-from-abel.jpeg?w=111&h=150 111w, https://svpow.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/young1975-p4-brachiosaurus-from-abel.jpeg?w=222&h=300 222w, https://svpow.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/young1975-p4-brachiosaurus-from-abel.jpeg 672w" sizes="(max-width: 480px) 100vw, 480px" /></a><p id="caption-attachment-2614" class="wp-caption-text">Abel's restoration of Brachiosaurus, undated, from Young (1975) page 4</p></div> <p>Infuriatingly, Young does not say anything whatsoever about the provenance of this restoration — for all I know, it might have been done in 1974 by a talentless artist who ignored the previous sixty years’ work. But it seems more likely that it’s very early work, and therefore of great historical importance. Once more (and believe me, I am getting embarrassed at how often I’ve said this), I welcome any further information.</p> <h3>And in other news …</h3> <p>Many of you will have used PDFs downloaded from the O. C. Marsh archive at <a href="http://sauroposeidon.net/marsh.html">http://sauroposeidon.net/marsh.html</a>. That address will become inoperative at the end of this month, and the archive is now hosted at <a href="http://marsh.dinodb.com/">http://marsh.dinodb.com/</a> — Please update your bookmarks, links, etc.</p> <h2>References</h2> <div id="_mcePaste"> <ul> <li>Janensch, Werner. 1914. Ubersicht uber der Wirbeltierfauna der Tendaguru-Schichten nebst einer kurzen Charakterisierung der neu aufgefuhrten Arten von Sauropoden. <em>Archiv fur Biontologie</em>, Berlin, III, 1 (1), pp. 81-110.</li> <li>Janensch, Werner. 1938. Gestalt und Grösse von <em>Brachiosaurus</em> und anderen riesenwüchsigen Sauropoden. <em>Biologe</em> 7: 130-134, 2 figs.</li> <li>Janensch, Werner. 1950b. Die Skelettrekonstruktion von <em>Brachiosaurus brancai</em>. <em>Palaeontographica</em> (Suppl. 7) 3: 97-103.</li> <li>Matthew, W. D. 1915. <em>Dinosaurs, with special reference to the American Museum collections</em>. American Museum of Natural History, New York. 164 pages.</li> <li>Young, D. 1975. <em>Brachiosaurus</em>, the biggest dinosaur of them all. <em>Field Museum of Natural History Bulletin</em> 46(1):3-9.</li> </ul> </div> </div> <div class="entrymeta"> <div class="postinfo"> <span class="postedby">Posted by Mike Taylor</span><br /> <span class="filedto">Filed in <a href="https://svpow.com/category/brachiosaurs/brachiosaurus/" rel="category tag">Brachiosaurus</a>, <a href="https://svpow.com/category/life-restorations/" rel="category tag">life restorations</a>, <a href="https://svpow.com/category/skeletal-reconstructions/" rel="category tag">skeletal reconstructions</a></span><br /> </div> <a href="https://svpow.com/2010/04/08/early-brachiosaurus-art/#comments" class="commentslink" >24 Comments »</a> </div> </div> <div class="commentsblock"> </div> <div class="entry entry-5 post-2604 post type-post status-publish format-standard hentry category-100-totally-real category-brachiosaurs category-brachiosaurus category-media-fail category-predation category-sauroposeidon category-skeletal-reconstructions category-stinkin-aliens category-stinkin-heads category-stinkin-mammals" id="post-2604"> <div class="entrytitle"> <h2> <a href="https://svpow.com/2010/04/01/the-even-more-enigmatic-taphonomy-of-sauroposeidon/" rel="bookmark">The <i>even more</i> enigmatic taphonomy of <i>Sauroposeidon</i></a> </h2> <h3>April 1, 2010</h3> </div> <div class="entrybody"> <p><a href="https://svpow.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/omgrunforyerlives.jpg"><img data-attachment-id="2605" data-permalink="https://svpow.com/2010/04/01/the-even-more-enigmatic-taphonomy-of-sauroposeidon/omgrunforyerlives/" data-orig-file="https://svpow.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/omgrunforyerlives.jpg" data-orig-size="1200,1350" data-comments-opened="1" data-image-meta="{"aperture":"0","credit":"","camera":"","caption":"","created_timestamp":"0","copyright":"","focal_length":"0","iso":"0","shutter_speed":"0","title":""}" data-image-title="OMGrunforyerlives" data-image-description="" data-image-caption="" data-medium-file="https://svpow.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/omgrunforyerlives.jpg?w=267" data-large-file="https://svpow.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/omgrunforyerlives.jpg?w=480" loading="lazy" class="aligncenter size-full wp-image-2605" title="OMGrunforyerlives" src="https://svpow.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/omgrunforyerlives.jpg?w=480&h=540" alt="" width="480" height="540" srcset="https://svpow.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/omgrunforyerlives.jpg?w=480&h=540 480w, https://svpow.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/omgrunforyerlives.jpg?w=960&h=1080 960w, https://svpow.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/omgrunforyerlives.jpg?w=133&h=150 133w, https://svpow.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/omgrunforyerlives.jpg?w=267&h=300 267w, https://svpow.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/omgrunforyerlives.jpg?w=768&h=864 768w, https://svpow.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/omgrunforyerlives.jpg?w=910&h=1024 910w" sizes="(max-width: 480px) 100vw, 480px" /></a></p> <p><strong>Update</strong></p> <p>This is an actual page from the late, lamented <em><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weekly_World_News">Weekly World News</a></em>, from December 14, 1999. I always thought it was pretty darned funny that they had the alien remains discovered in the “belly” of an animal known only from neck vertebrae. Now, subjecting a tabloid story to technical scrutiny really is like dancing about architecture, but…it just tickles me. As does the entire story. I haven’t been able to get hold of Dr. Posvby to confirm his findings, but it’s been over a decade and he still hasn’t published, so I’m not holding my breath.</p> <p>Incidentally, the WWN archives are available on Google Books: <a href="http://books.google.com/books/serial/ISSN:0199574X?rview=1&lr=&sa=N&start=0/">go here</a> to read about <a href="http://books.google.com/books?id=PvQDAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA24&dq=bat+boy+saddam&lr=&rview=1&cd=1#v=onepage&q=bat%20boy%20saddam&f=false">Bat Boy</a> siring a <a href="http://books.google.com/books?id=jOwDAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA45&dq=weekly+world+news+three-headed&lr=&rview=1&cd=2#v=onepage&q=weekly%20world%20news%20three-headed&f=false">3-headed</a> <a href="http://books.google.com/books?id=I_MDAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA4&dq=weekly+world+news+alien&lr=&rview=1&cd=2#v=onepage&q=weekly%20world%20news%20alien&f=false">alien</a> <a href="http://books.google.com/books?id=cu4DAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA3&dq=weekly+world+news+elvis+baby&lr=&rview=1&cd=2#v=onepage&q=weekly%20world%20news%20elvis%20baby&f=false">Elvis</a> baby on a female <a href="http://books.google.com/books?id=GfADAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA26&dq=weekly+world+news+sasquatch&lr=&rview=1&cd=3#v=onepage&q=weekly%20world%20news%20sasquatch&f=false">Sasquatch</a>. Or <a href="http://books.google.com/books?id=rPIDAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA25&dq=weekly+world+news+nessie&lr=&rview=1&cd=1#v=onepage&q=weekly%20world%20news%20nessie&f=false">something to that effect</a>.</p> </div> <div class="entrymeta"> <div class="postinfo"> <span class="postedby">Posted by Matt Wedel</span><br /> <span class="filedto">Filed in <a href="https://svpow.com/category/100-totally-real/" rel="category tag">100% totally real</a>, <a href="https://svpow.com/category/brachiosaurs/" rel="category tag">brachiosaurids</a>, <a href="https://svpow.com/category/brachiosaurs/brachiosaurus/" rel="category tag">Brachiosaurus</a>, <a href="https://svpow.com/category/media-fail/" rel="category tag">media FAIL</a>, <a href="https://svpow.com/category/predation/" rel="category tag">predation</a>, <a href="https://svpow.com/category/brachiosaurs/sauroposeidon/" rel="category tag">Sauroposeidon</a>, <a href="https://svpow.com/category/skeletal-reconstructions/" rel="category tag">skeletal reconstructions</a>, <a href="https://svpow.com/category/stinkin-aliens/" rel="category tag">stinkin' aliens</a>, <a href="https://svpow.com/category/stinkin-heads/" rel="category tag">stinkin' heads</a>, <a href="https://svpow.com/category/stinkin-mammals/" rel="category tag">stinkin' mammals</a></span><br /> </div> <a href="https://svpow.com/2010/04/01/the-even-more-enigmatic-taphonomy-of-sauroposeidon/#comments" class="commentslink" >9 Comments »</a> </div> </div> <div class="commentsblock"> </div> <div class="navigation"> <div class="alignleft"></div> <div class="alignright"></div> </div> </div> <ul id="sidebar"> <li id="custom_html-3" class="widget_text widget widget_custom_html"><h2 class="widgettitle">Support SV-POW!</h2> <div class="textwidget custom-html-widget"><a href="https://www.patreon.com/bePatron?u=23092575"><img src="https://svpow.files.wordpress.com/2019/08/become_a_patron_button.png" alt="Become a Patron!" height="41" width="174"></a> <p /></div></li> <li id="search-2" class="widget widget_search"><h2 class="widgettitle">Search</h2> <form role="search" method="get" id="searchform" class="searchform" action="https://svpow.com/"> <div> <label class="screen-reader-text" for="s">Search for:</label> <input type="text" value="" name="s" id="s" /> <input type="submit" id="searchsubmit" value="Search" /> </div> </form></li> <li id="recent-posts-2" class="widget widget_recent_entries"> <h2 class="widgettitle">Recent Posts</h2> <ul> <li> <a href="https://svpow.com/2025/02/18/burn-it-all-down/">Burn it all down</a> </li> <li> <a href="https://svpow.com/2025/02/14/if-you-believe-in-artificial-intelligence-take-five-minutes-to-ask-it-about-stuff-you-know-well/">If you believe in “Artificial Intelligence”, take five minutes to ask it about stuff you know well</a> </li> <li> <a href="https://svpow.com/2025/02/11/dear-royal-society-please-stop-lending-legitimacy-to-elon-musk/">Dear Royal Society: please stop lending legitimacy to Elon Musk</a> </li> <li> <a href="https://svpow.com/2025/02/04/new-paper-review-of-the-supernumerary-muscles-of-the-human-leg-and-foot/">New paper: review of the supernumerary muscles of the human leg and foot</a> </li> <li> <a href="https://svpow.com/2025/01/29/new-paper-out-today-boisvert-et-al-2025-on-all-the-haplos/">New paper out today: Boisvert et al. 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width:48px;"><img alt='' src='https://1.gravatar.com/avatar/a5a663942bb5209760e100a055890a7ad6e8d344b2341f90ccffff92a90502c7?s=48&d=monsterid&r=G' srcset='https://1.gravatar.com/avatar/a5a663942bb5209760e100a055890a7ad6e8d344b2341f90ccffff92a90502c7?s=48&d=monsterid&r=G 1x, https://1.gravatar.com/avatar/a5a663942bb5209760e100a055890a7ad6e8d344b2341f90ccffff92a90502c7?s=72&d=monsterid&r=G 1.5x, https://1.gravatar.com/avatar/a5a663942bb5209760e100a055890a7ad6e8d344b2341f90ccffff92a90502c7?s=96&d=monsterid&r=G 2x, https://1.gravatar.com/avatar/a5a663942bb5209760e100a055890a7ad6e8d344b2341f90ccffff92a90502c7?s=144&d=monsterid&r=G 3x, https://1.gravatar.com/avatar/a5a663942bb5209760e100a055890a7ad6e8d344b2341f90ccffff92a90502c7?s=192&d=monsterid&r=G 4x' class='avatar avatar-48' height='48' width='48' loading='lazy' decoding='async' /></td><td class="recentcommentstextend" style="">Thomas Munro on <a href="https://svpow.com/2025/02/14/if-you-believe-in-artificial-intelligence-take-five-minutes-to-ask-it-about-stuff-you-know-well/#comment-271353">If you believe in “Artif…</a></td></tr> </table> </li> <li id="pages-2" class="widget widget_pages"><h2 class="widgettitle">Pages</h2> <ul> <li class="page_item page-item-2"><a href="https://svpow.com/about/">About SV-POW!</a></li> <li class="page_item page-item-1703"><a href="https://svpow.com/what-theyre-saying/">What they’re saying about SV-POW!</a></li> <li class="page_item page-item-950"><a href="https://svpow.com/tutorials/">Tutorials</a></li> <li class="page_item page-item-1706"><a href="https://svpow.com/the-digital-future/">The Shiny Digital Future</a></li> <li class="page_item page-item-2513"><a href="https://svpow.com/things-to-make-and-do/">Things to Make and Do</a></li> <li class="page_item page-item-22419"><a href="https://svpow.com/videos-by-sv-powsketeers/">Videos by SV-POW!sketeers</a></li> <li class="page_item page-item-4460"><a href="https://svpow.com/human-anatomy-study-materials/">Human anatomy study materials</a></li> <li class="page_item page-item-16096"><a href="https://svpow.com/supersaurus-and-co-in-2019/"><i>Supersaurus</i>, <i>Ultrasaurus</i> and <i>Dystylosaurus</i> in the 21st Century</a></li> <li class="page_item page-item-577"><a href="https://svpow.com/your-x-is-y/">Your <i>noun</i> is <i>adjective</i></a></li> <li class="page_item page-item-3708"><a href="https://svpow.com/how-adjective-was-taxon/">How <i>adjective</i> was <i>taxon</i>?</a></li> <li class="page_item page-item-11780"><a href="https://svpow.com/engaging-with-the-media/">Engaging with the media</a></li> <li class="page_item page-item-4783"><a href="https://svpow.com/posts-on-paleo-art/">Posts on Paleoart</a></li> <li class="page_item page-item-17867"><a href="https://svpow.com/mikes-open-projects/">Mike’s open projects</a></li> <li class="page_item page-item-20933"><a href="https://svpow.com/neural-canal-projects/">Neural canal projects</a></li> <li class="page_item page-item-11552"><a href="https://svpow.com/all-the-museum-abbreviations/">All the Museum Abbreviations</a></li> <li class="page_item page-item-3373"><a href="https://svpow.com/checklist-for-new-zoological-genus-and-species-names-draft/">Checklist for new zoological genus and species names [DRAFT v3]</a></li> <li class="page_item page-item-1131"><a href="https://svpow.com/open-access-bio-and-paleo/">Open Access Bio and Paleo [UNMAINTAINED]</a></li> <li class="page_item page-item-1116 page_item_has_children"><a href="https://svpow.com/papers-by-sv-powsketeers/">Papers by SV-POW!sketeers</a> <ul class='children'> <li class="page_item page-item-23241"><a href="https://svpow.com/papers-by-sv-powsketeers/boisvert-et-al-2025-haplocanthosaurus-census/">Boisvert et al. 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(2022) on respiratory infection in a sauropod</a></li> <li class="page_item page-item-12577"><a href="https://svpow.com/papers-by-sv-powsketeers/taylor-2015-on-incomplete-necks/">Taylor (2022) on incomplete necks</a></li> <li class="page_item page-item-19533"><a href="https://svpow.com/papers-by-sv-powsketeers/aureliano-et-al-2021-on-saltasaur-pneumaticity/">Aureliano et al. (2021) on saltasaur pneumaticity</a></li> <li class="page_item page-item-19106"><a href="https://svpow.com/papers-by-sv-powsketeers/kay-estes-and-wedel-2021-on-variation-in-the-peroneus-tertius-muscle/">Kay, Estes, and Wedel (2021) on variation in the peroneus tertius muscle (PT)</a></li> <li class="page_item page-item-22500"><a href="https://svpow.com/papers-by-sv-powsketeers/amedeo-et-al-2021-on-variation-in-human-leg-muscles/">Amedeo et al (2021) on variation in human leg muscles</a></li> <li class="page_item page-item-18959"><a href="https://svpow.com/papers-by-sv-powsketeers/wedel-et-al-2021-on-expanded-neural-canals-in-the-snowmass-haplocanthosaurus/">Wedel et al. (2021) on expanded neural canals in the Snowmass <i>Haplocanthosaurus</i></a></li> <li class="page_item page-item-18339"><a href="https://svpow.com/papers-by-sv-powsketeers/taylor-and-wedel-2021-on-pneumatic-variation/">Taylor and Wedel (2021) on pneumatic variation</a></li> <li class="page_item page-item-22534"><a href="https://svpow.com/papers-by-sv-powsketeers/staples-et-al-2019-on-long-cutaneous-branches-of-the-obturator-nerve-in-humans/">Staples et al (2019) on long cutaneous branches of the obturator nerve in humans</a></li> <li class="page_item page-item-14521"><a href="https://svpow.com/papers-by-sv-powsketeers/taylor-2018-on-xenoposeidon-as-a-rebbachisaurid/">Taylor (2018) on <i>Xenoposeidon</i> as a rebbachisaurid</a></li> <li class="page_item page-item-8940"><a href="https://svpow.com/papers-by-sv-powsketeers/taylor-and-wedel-2013-on-the-neck-of-barosaurus/">Taylor and Wedel (2016) on the neck of <i>Barosaurus</i></a></li> <li class="page_item page-item-13662"><a href="https://svpow.com/papers-by-sv-powsketeers/hallett-and-wedel-2016-the-sauropod-dinosaurs-life-in-the-age-of-giants/">Hallett and Wedel (2016), <i>The Sauropod Dinosaurs: Life in the Age of Giants</i></a></li> <li class="page_item page-item-13611"><a href="https://svpow.com/papers-by-sv-powsketeers/ansolabehere-et-al-2016-on-moral-dimensions-of-open/">Ansolabehere et al. (2016) on moral dimensions of open</a></li> <li class="page_item page-item-12849"><a href="https://svpow.com/papers-by-sv-powsketeers/hone-farke-and-wedel-2016-on-dinosaur-ontogenetic-stages/">Hone, Farke, and Wedel (2016) on dinosaur ontogenetic stages</a></li> <li class="page_item page-item-12768"><a href="https://svpow.com/papers-by-sv-powsketeers/taylor-2016-on-evaluating-research/">Taylor (2016) on evaluating research</a></li> <li class="page_item page-item-12408"><a href="https://svpow.com/papers-by-sv-powsketeers/wedel-et-al-on-apatosaur-neck-combat/">Wedel et al. on apatosaur neck combat</a></li> <li class="page_item page-item-12081"><a href="https://svpow.com/papers-by-sv-powsketeers/upchurch-mannion-and-taylor-2015-on-haestasaurus-becklesii/">Upchurch, Mannion and Taylor (2015) on <i>Haestasaurus becklesii</i></a></li> <li class="page_item page-item-11607"><a href="https://svpow.com/papers-by-sv-powsketeers/kraatz-sherratt-bumacod-and-wedel-2015-on-rabbit-skulls/">Kraatz, Sherratt, Bumacod, and Wedel (2015) on rabbit skulls</a></li> <li class="page_item page-item-11009"><a href="https://svpow.com/papers-by-sv-powsketeers/taylor-2014-on-quantifying-neck-cartilage/">Taylor (2014) on quantifying neck cartilage</a></li> <li class="page_item page-item-11200"><a href="https://svpow.com/papers-by-sv-powsketeers/foster-and-wedel-2014-on-the-snowmass-haplocanthosaurus/">Foster and Wedel (2014) on the Snowmass <i>Haplocanthosaurus</i></a></li> <li class="page_item page-item-11139"><a href="https://svpow.com/papers-by-sv-powsketeers/farke-cifelli-maxwell-and-wedel-2014-on-aquilops/">Farke, Cifelli, Maxwell, and Wedel (2014) on <i>Aquilops</i></a></li> <li class="page_item page-item-22490"><a href="https://svpow.com/papers-by-sv-powsketeers/penera-et-al-2014-on-the-perforating-branch-of-the-peroneal-artery/">Penera et al (2014) on the perforating branch of the peroneal artery</a></li> <li class="page_item page-item-10591"><a href="https://svpow.com/papers-by-sv-powsketeers/taylor-2014-for-2004-on-dinosaur-diversity/">Taylor (2014 for 2004) on dinosaur diversity</a></li> <li class="page_item page-item-9184"><a href="https://svpow.com/papers-by-sv-powsketeers/wedel-and-taylor-2013b-on-caudal-pneumaticity/">Wedel and Taylor (2013b) on caudal pneumaticity</a></li> <li class="page_item page-item-9180"><a href="https://svpow.com/papers-by-sv-powsketeers/taylor-and-wedel-2013c-on-neck-cartilage/">Taylor and Wedel (2013b) on neck cartilage</a></li> <li class="page_item page-item-7996"><a href="https://svpow.com/papers-by-sv-powsketeers/wedel-and-taylor-2013-on-sauropod-neural-spine-bifurcation/">Wedel and Taylor (2013a) on sauropod neural spine bifurcation</a></li> <li class="page_item page-item-6799"><a href="https://svpow.com/papers-by-sv-powsketeers/taylor-and-wedel-2012-on-sauropod-neck-anatomy/">Taylor and Wedel (2013a) on sauropod neck anatomy</a></li> <li class="page_item page-item-4125"><a href="https://svpow.com/papers-by-sv-powsketeers/wedel-2011-on-long-nerves-of-sauropods/">Wedel (2012) on long nerves of sauropods</a></li> <li class="page_item page-item-3808"><a href="https://svpow.com/papers-by-sv-powsketeers/yates-wedel-and-bonnan-2011-on-prosauropod-pneumaticity/">Yates, Wedel, and Bonnan (2012) on prosauropod pneumaticity</a></li> <li class="page_item page-item-4061"><a href="https://svpow.com/papers-by-sv-powsketeers/taylor-hone-wedel-and-naish-2011-on-sexual-selection-of-sauropod-necks/">Taylor, Hone, Wedel and Naish (2011) on sexual selection of sauropod necks</a></li> <li class="page_item page-item-3541"><a href="https://svpow.com/papers-by-sv-powsketeers/taylor-wedel-and-cifelli-2011-on-brontomerus/">Taylor, Wedel and Cifelli (2011) on <i>Brontomerus</i></a></li> <li class="page_item page-item-3032"><a href="https://svpow.com/papers-by-sv-powsketeers/taylor-2010-on-the-history-of-sauropod-research/">Taylor (2010) on the history of sauropod research</a></li> <li class="page_item page-item-2175"><a href="https://svpow.com/papers-by-sv-powsketeers/taylor-2009-on-the-inevitability-of-electronic-publishing-of-nomenclatural-acts/">Taylor (2009) on the inevitability of electronic publishing of nomenclatural acts</a></li> <li class="page_item page-item-2089"><a href="https://svpow.com/papers-by-sv-powsketeers/taylor-2009-on-brachiosaurus-and-giraffatitan/">Taylor (2009) on <i>Brachiosaurus</i> and <i>Giraffatitan</i></a></li> <li class="page_item page-item-1341"><a href="https://svpow.com/papers-by-sv-powsketeers/taylor-et-al-2009-on-neck-posture/">Taylor, Wedel and Naish (2009) on neck posture</a></li> <li class="page_item page-item-1495"><a href="https://svpow.com/papers-by-sv-powsketeers/upchurch-martin-and-taylor-2009-on-cetiosaurus-nomenclature/">Upchurch, Martin, and Taylor (2009) on <i>Cetiosaurus</i> nomenclature</a></li> <li class="page_item page-item-867"><a href="https://svpow.com/papers-by-sv-powsketeers/wedel-2009-on-air-sacs/">Wedel (2009) on air sacs</a></li> <li class="page_item page-item-571"><a href="https://svpow.com/papers-by-sv-powsketeers/xenoposeidon-week/">Taylor and Naish (2007) on <i>Xenoposeidon</i></a></li> </ul> </li> </ul> </li> <li id="tag_cloud-2" class="widget widget_tag_cloud"><h2 class="widgettitle">Categories</h2> <div style="overflow: hidden;"><a href="https://svpow.com/category/100-totally-real/" style="font-size: 100%; padding: 1px; margin: 1px;" title="100% totally real (68)">100% totally real</a> <a href="https://svpow.com/category/diplodocids/apatosaurus/" style="font-size: 148.125%; padding: 1px; margin: 1px;" title="Apatosaurus (134)">Apatosaurus</a> <a href="https://svpow.com/category/art/" style="font-size: 163.4375%; padding: 1px; margin: 1px;" title="Art (155)">Art</a> <a href="https://svpow.com/category/brachiosaurs/" style="font-size: 166.35416666667%; padding: 1px; margin: 1px;" title="brachiosaurids (159)">brachiosaurids</a> <a 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href='https://svpow.com/2024/03/'>March 2024</a></li> <li><a href='https://svpow.com/2024/02/'>February 2024</a></li> <li><a href='https://svpow.com/2024/01/'>January 2024</a></li> <li><a href='https://svpow.com/2023/12/'>December 2023</a></li> <li><a href='https://svpow.com/2023/11/'>November 2023</a></li> <li><a href='https://svpow.com/2023/10/'>October 2023</a></li> <li><a href='https://svpow.com/2023/09/'>September 2023</a></li> <li><a href='https://svpow.com/2023/08/'>August 2023</a></li> <li><a href='https://svpow.com/2023/07/'>July 2023</a></li> <li><a href='https://svpow.com/2023/06/'>June 2023</a></li> <li><a href='https://svpow.com/2023/05/'>May 2023</a></li> <li><a href='https://svpow.com/2023/04/'>April 2023</a></li> <li><a href='https://svpow.com/2023/03/'>March 2023</a></li> <li><a href='https://svpow.com/2023/02/'>February 2023</a></li> <li><a href='https://svpow.com/2023/01/'>January 2023</a></li> <li><a href='https://svpow.com/2022/12/'>December 2022</a></li> <li><a href='https://svpow.com/2022/11/'>November 2022</a></li> <li><a href='https://svpow.com/2022/10/'>October 2022</a></li> <li><a href='https://svpow.com/2022/09/'>September 2022</a></li> <li><a href='https://svpow.com/2022/08/'>August 2022</a></li> <li><a href='https://svpow.com/2022/07/'>July 2022</a></li> <li><a href='https://svpow.com/2022/06/'>June 2022</a></li> <li><a href='https://svpow.com/2022/05/'>May 2022</a></li> <li><a href='https://svpow.com/2022/04/'>April 2022</a></li> <li><a href='https://svpow.com/2022/03/'>March 2022</a></li> <li><a href='https://svpow.com/2022/02/'>February 2022</a></li> <li><a href='https://svpow.com/2022/01/'>January 2022</a></li> <li><a href='https://svpow.com/2021/12/'>December 2021</a></li> <li><a href='https://svpow.com/2021/11/'>November 2021</a></li> <li><a href='https://svpow.com/2021/10/'>October 2021</a></li> <li><a href='https://svpow.com/2021/09/'>September 2021</a></li> <li><a href='https://svpow.com/2021/08/'>August 2021</a></li> <li><a href='https://svpow.com/2021/06/'>June 2021</a></li> <li><a href='https://svpow.com/2021/05/'>May 2021</a></li> <li><a href='https://svpow.com/2021/04/'>April 2021</a></li> <li><a href='https://svpow.com/2021/03/'>March 2021</a></li> <li><a href='https://svpow.com/2021/02/'>February 2021</a></li> <li><a href='https://svpow.com/2021/01/'>January 2021</a></li> <li><a href='https://svpow.com/2020/12/'>December 2020</a></li> <li><a href='https://svpow.com/2020/11/'>November 2020</a></li> <li><a href='https://svpow.com/2020/10/'>October 2020</a></li> <li><a href='https://svpow.com/2020/09/'>September 2020</a></li> <li><a href='https://svpow.com/2020/08/'>August 2020</a></li> <li><a href='https://svpow.com/2020/07/'>July 2020</a></li> <li><a href='https://svpow.com/2020/06/'>June 2020</a></li> <li><a href='https://svpow.com/2020/05/'>May 2020</a></li> <li><a href='https://svpow.com/2020/04/'>April 2020</a></li> <li><a href='https://svpow.com/2020/03/'>March 2020</a></li> <li><a href='https://svpow.com/2020/02/'>February 2020</a></li> <li><a href='https://svpow.com/2020/01/'>January 2020</a></li> <li><a href='https://svpow.com/2019/12/'>December 2019</a></li> <li><a href='https://svpow.com/2019/11/'>November 2019</a></li> <li><a href='https://svpow.com/2019/10/'>October 2019</a></li> <li><a href='https://svpow.com/2019/09/'>September 2019</a></li> <li><a href='https://svpow.com/2019/08/'>August 2019</a></li> <li><a href='https://svpow.com/2019/07/'>July 2019</a></li> <li><a href='https://svpow.com/2019/06/'>June 2019</a></li> <li><a href='https://svpow.com/2019/05/'>May 2019</a></li> <li><a href='https://svpow.com/2019/04/'>April 2019</a></li> <li><a href='https://svpow.com/2019/03/'>March 2019</a></li> <li><a href='https://svpow.com/2019/02/'>February 2019</a></li> <li><a href='https://svpow.com/2019/01/'>January 2019</a></li> <li><a href='https://svpow.com/2018/12/'>December 2018</a></li> <li><a href='https://svpow.com/2018/11/'>November 2018</a></li> <li><a href='https://svpow.com/2018/10/'>October 2018</a></li> <li><a href='https://svpow.com/2018/09/'>September 2018</a></li> <li><a href='https://svpow.com/2018/08/'>August 2018</a></li> <li><a href='https://svpow.com/2018/07/'>July 2018</a></li> <li><a href='https://svpow.com/2018/06/'>June 2018</a></li> <li><a href='https://svpow.com/2018/05/'>May 2018</a></li> <li><a href='https://svpow.com/2018/04/'>April 2018</a></li> <li><a href='https://svpow.com/2018/03/'>March 2018</a></li> <li><a href='https://svpow.com/2018/02/'>February 2018</a></li> <li><a href='https://svpow.com/2018/01/'>January 2018</a></li> <li><a href='https://svpow.com/2017/12/'>December 2017</a></li> <li><a href='https://svpow.com/2017/11/'>November 2017</a></li> <li><a href='https://svpow.com/2017/10/'>October 2017</a></li> <li><a href='https://svpow.com/2017/09/'>September 2017</a></li> <li><a href='https://svpow.com/2017/08/'>August 2017</a></li> <li><a href='https://svpow.com/2017/07/'>July 2017</a></li> <li><a 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