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<span>Moving forward...</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">1 comment</span> <ul id="toc-Moving_forward...-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Kim_Carr_image_source_broken?" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1 vector-toc-list-item-expanded"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Kim_Carr_image_source_broken?"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">5</span> <span>Kim Carr image source broken?</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">1 comment</span> <ul id="toc-Kim_Carr_image_source_broken?-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Kim_Il_Carr" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1 vector-toc-list-item-expanded"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Kim_Il_Carr"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">6</span> <span>Kim Il Carr</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">6 comments</span> <ul 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.cs1-visible-error{color:var(--color-error,#d33)}.mw-parser-output .cs1-maint{display:none;color:#085;margin-left:0.3em}.mw-parser-output .cs1-kern-left{padding-left:0.2em}.mw-parser-output .cs1-kern-right{padding-right:0.2em}.mw-parser-output .citation .mw-selflink{font-weight:inherit}@media screen{.mw-parser-output .cs1-format{font-size:95%}html.skin-theme-clientpref-night .mw-parser-output .cs1-maint{color:#18911f}}@media screen and (prefers-color-scheme:dark){html.skin-theme-clientpref-os .mw-parser-output .cs1-maint{color:#18911f}}</style><cite class="citation news cs1">Moses, Asher (2008-07-25). <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="http://www.smh.com.au/news/technology/politicians-wiki-entries-altered/2008/07/24/1216492642258.html">"Politicians' Wiki entries altered"</a>. 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.wpb-header{background-color:#302f2d}html.skin-theme-clientpref-night .mw-parser-output .wpbs .banner-shell-inner{background-color:#2e2505}}@media screen and (prefers-color-scheme:dark){html.skin-theme-clientpref-os .mw-parser-output .wpb-category-box{background-color:#0a0a0a}html.skin-theme-clientpref-os .mw-parser-output .wpbs .wpb .wpb-main,html.skin-theme-clientpref-os .mw-parser-output .wpbs .wpb-header{background-color:#302f2d}html.skin-theme-clientpref-os .mw-parser-output .wpbs .banner-shell-inner{background-color:#2e2505}}</style><table class="tmbox tmbox-notice mw-collapsible innercollapse wpb wpb-table"><tbody><tr class="wpb-header"><td class="wpb-header-icon"><span typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Crystal_personal.svg" class="mw-file-description"><img alt="WikiProject icon" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/2/24/Crystal_personal.svg/25px-Crystal_personal.svg.png" decoding="async" width="25" height="25" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/2/24/Crystal_personal.svg/38px-Crystal_personal.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/2/24/Crystal_personal.svg/50px-Crystal_personal.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="70" data-file-height="70"/></a></span></td><td class="wpb-header-combined"><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Biography" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Biography">Biography</a><span class="wpb-nested-task-force">: <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Biography/Politics_and_government" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Biography/Politics and government">Politics and Government</a></span> </td></tr><tr><td class="mbox-text wpb-main" colspan="2"><table><tbody><tr><td class="mbox-image wpb-image"><span typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Crystal_personal.svg" class="mw-file-description"><img alt="WikiProject icon" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/2/24/Crystal_personal.svg/60px-Crystal_personal.svg.png" decoding="async" width="60" height="60" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/2/24/Crystal_personal.svg/90px-Crystal_personal.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/2/24/Crystal_personal.svg/120px-Crystal_personal.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="70" data-file-height="70"/></a></span></td><td class="mbox-text"><style data-mw-deduplicate="TemplateStyles:r1259569809">.mw-parser-output .portalbox{padding:0;margin:0.5em 0;display:table;box-sizing:border-box;max-width:175px;list-style:none}.mw-parser-output .portalborder{border:1px solid var(--border-color-base,#a2a9b1);padding:0.1em;background:var(--background-color-neutral-subtle,#f8f9fa)}.mw-parser-output .portalbox-entry{display:table-row;font-size:85%;line-height:110%;height:1.9em;font-style:italic;font-weight:bold}.mw-parser-output .portalbox-image{display:table-cell;padding:0.2em;vertical-align:middle;text-align:center}.mw-parser-output .portalbox-link{display:table-cell;padding:0.2em 0.2em 0.2em 0.3em;vertical-align:middle}@media(min-width:720px){.mw-parser-output .portalleft{clear:left;float:left;margin:0.5em 1em 0.5em 0}.mw-parser-output .portalright{clear:right;float:right;margin:0.5em 0 0.5em 1em}}</style><ul role="navigation" aria-label="Portals" class="noprint portalbox portalborder portalright"> <li class="portalbox-entry"><span class="portalbox-image"><span class="noviewer" typeof="mw:File"><span><img alt="" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/6/69/P_vip.svg/28px-P_vip.svg.png" decoding="async" width="28" height="28" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/6/69/P_vip.svg/41px-P_vip.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/6/69/P_vip.svg/55px-P_vip.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="1911" data-file-height="1944"/></span></span></span><span class="portalbox-link"><a href="/wiki/Portal:Biography" title="Portal:Biography">Biography portal</a></span></li></ul>This article is within the scope of <b><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Biography" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Biography">WikiProject Biography</a></b>, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Wikipedia's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Biography/Members" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Biography/Members">join the project</a> and <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Biography" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Biography">contribute to the discussion</a>. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the <a href="/wiki/Template:WikiProject_Biography/doc" title="Template:WikiProject Biography/doc">documentation</a>.<span class="metadata wpb-metadata"><span class="wpb-project">Biography</span><span class="wpb-project_link">Wikipedia:WikiProject Biography</span><span class="wpb-banner_name">Template:WikiProject Biography</span><span class="wpb-assessment_cat">biography</span></span></td><td class="mbox-empty-cell"></td></tr><tr><td><figure class="mw-default-size mw-halign-center" typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:A_coloured_voting_box.svg" class="mw-file-description"><img alt="Taskforce icon" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/0/01/A_coloured_voting_box.svg/25px-A_coloured_voting_box.svg.png" decoding="async" width="25" height="25" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/0/01/A_coloured_voting_box.svg/38px-A_coloured_voting_box.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/0/01/A_coloured_voting_box.svg/50px-A_coloured_voting_box.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="160" data-file-height="160"/></a><figcaption></figcaption></figure></td><td class="mbox-text" colspan="2">This article is supported by <b><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Biography/Politics_and_government" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Biography/Politics and government">the politics and government work group</a></b> (assessed as <a href="/wiki/Category:Low-importance_biography_(politics_and_government)_articles" title="Category:Low-importance biography (politics and government) articles">Low-importance</a>).</td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr></tbody></table> <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1237879475"><link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1259570071"><table class="tmbox tmbox-notice mw-collapsible innercollapse wpb wpb-table"><tbody><tr class="wpb-header"><td class="wpb-header-icon"><span typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Flag_of_Australia.svg" class="mw-file-description"><img alt="WikiProject icon" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/b/b9/Flag_of_Australia.svg/35px-Flag_of_Australia.svg.png" decoding="async" width="35" height="18" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/b/b9/Flag_of_Australia.svg/53px-Flag_of_Australia.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/b/b9/Flag_of_Australia.svg/70px-Flag_of_Australia.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="1280" data-file-height="640"/></a></span></td><td class="wpb-header-combined"><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Australia" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Australia">Australia</a><span class="wpb-nested-task-force">: <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Victoria" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Victoria">Victoria</a> / <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Australian_politics" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Australian politics">Politics</a></span> <span class="wpb-header-bubbles import-mid">Mid‑importance</span> <span class="wpb-header-bubbles"><span class="mw-default-size" typeof="mw:File"><span title="Need help improving this article? Ask a LibrarianWhat's this? at the National Library of Australia, or the State Library of Victoria."><img alt="" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/0b/Question_book-3.png/25px-Question_book-3.png" decoding="async" width="25" height="20" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/0b/Question_book-3.png/38px-Question_book-3.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/0b/Question_book-3.png/51px-Question_book-3.png 2x" data-file-width="252" data-file-height="199"/></span></span></span> <span class="wpb-header-bubbles"><span class="mw-default-size" typeof="mw:File"><span title="The Wikimedia Australia chapter can be contacted via email to helpwikimedia.org.au for non-editorial assistance."><img alt="" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/bb/WMAU_2017_vertical_logo_%28colour%29.svg/27px-WMAU_2017_vertical_logo_%28colour%29.svg.png" decoding="async" width="27" height="20" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/bb/WMAU_2017_vertical_logo_%28colour%29.svg/41px-WMAU_2017_vertical_logo_%28colour%29.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/bb/WMAU_2017_vertical_logo_%28colour%29.svg/54px-WMAU_2017_vertical_logo_%28colour%29.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="95" data-file-height="70"/></span></span></span></td></tr><tr><td class="mbox-text wpb-main" colspan="2"><table><tbody><tr><td class="mbox-image wpb-image"><span typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Flag_of_Australia.svg" class="mw-file-description"><img alt="WikiProject icon" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/b/b9/Flag_of_Australia.svg/80px-Flag_of_Australia.svg.png" decoding="async" width="80" height="40" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/b/b9/Flag_of_Australia.svg/120px-Flag_of_Australia.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/b/b9/Flag_of_Australia.svg/160px-Flag_of_Australia.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="1280" data-file-height="640"/></a></span></td><td class="mbox-text"><link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1259569809"><ul role="navigation" aria-label="Portals" class="noprint portalbox portalborder portalright"> <li class="portalbox-entry"><span class="portalbox-image"><span class="mw-image-border noviewer" typeof="mw:File"><span><img alt="flag" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/b/b9/Flag_of_Australia.svg/32px-Flag_of_Australia.svg.png" decoding="async" width="32" height="16" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/b/b9/Flag_of_Australia.svg/48px-Flag_of_Australia.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/b/b9/Flag_of_Australia.svg/64px-Flag_of_Australia.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="1280" data-file-height="640"/></span></span></span><span class="portalbox-link"><a href="/wiki/Portal:Australia" title="Portal:Australia">Australia portal</a></span></li></ul><b>Kim Carr</b> is within the scope of <b><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Australia" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Australia">WikiProject Australia</a></b>, which aims to improve Wikipedia's coverage of <a href="/wiki/Australia" title="Australia">Australia</a> and <a href="/wiki/Category:Australia" title="Category:Australia">Australia-related topics</a>. If you would like to participate, visit the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Australia" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Australia">project page</a>.<span class="metadata wpb-metadata"><span class="wpb-project">Australia</span><span class="wpb-project_link">Wikipedia:WikiProject Australia</span><span class="wpb-banner_name">Template:WikiProject Australia</span><span class="wpb-assessment_cat">Australia</span></span></td><td class="mbox-empty-cell"></td></tr><tr><td class="assess import-mid"><a href="/wiki/Category:Mid-importance_Australia_articles" title="Category:Mid-importance Australia articles">Mid</a></td><td class="mbox-text" colspan="2">This article has been rated as <b>Mid-importance</b> on the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Australia/Assessment#Importance_scale" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Australia/Assessment">project's importance scale</a>.</td></tr><tr><td><figure class="mw-default-size mw-halign-center" typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Loch_Ard_Gorge_4.jpg" class="mw-file-description"><img alt="Taskforce icon" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/84/Loch_Ard_Gorge_4.jpg/37px-Loch_Ard_Gorge_4.jpg" decoding="async" width="37" height="25" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/84/Loch_Ard_Gorge_4.jpg/57px-Loch_Ard_Gorge_4.jpg 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/84/Loch_Ard_Gorge_4.jpg/75px-Loch_Ard_Gorge_4.jpg 2x" data-file-width="560" data-file-height="376"/></a><figcaption></figcaption></figure></td><td class="mbox-text" colspan="2">This article is supported by <b><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Victoria" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Victoria">WikiProject Victoria</a></b> (assessed as <a href="/wiki/Category:Mid-importance_Victoria_articles" title="Category:Mid-importance Victoria articles">Mid-importance</a>).</td></tr><tr><td><figure class="mw-default-size mw-halign-center" typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Flagpole,_Parliament_House,_Canberra.JPG" class="mw-file-description"><img alt="Taskforce icon" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/38/Flagpole%2C_Parliament_House%2C_Canberra.JPG/33px-Flagpole%2C_Parliament_House%2C_Canberra.JPG" decoding="async" width="33" height="25" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/38/Flagpole%2C_Parliament_House%2C_Canberra.JPG/51px-Flagpole%2C_Parliament_House%2C_Canberra.JPG 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/38/Flagpole%2C_Parliament_House%2C_Canberra.JPG/67px-Flagpole%2C_Parliament_House%2C_Canberra.JPG 2x" data-file-width="1280" data-file-height="960"/></a><figcaption></figcaption></figure></td><td class="mbox-text" colspan="2">This article is supported by <b><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Australian_politics" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Australian politics">WikiProject Australian politics</a></b> (assessed as <a href="/wiki/Category:High-importance_Australian_politics_articles" title="Category:High-importance Australian politics articles">High-importance</a>).</td></tr><tr><td><figure class="mw-default-size mw-halign-center" typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Question_book-3.png" class="mw-file-description"><img alt="Note icon" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/0b/Question_book-3.png/32px-Question_book-3.png" decoding="async" width="32" height="25" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/0b/Question_book-3.png/48px-Question_book-3.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/0b/Question_book-3.png/63px-Question_book-3.png 2x" data-file-width="252" data-file-height="199"/></a><figcaption></figcaption></figure></td><td class="mbox-text" colspan="2">Need help improving this article? 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Please do not revert to the previous bio<a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Feadering&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Feadering (page does not exist)">Feadering</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Feadering" title="User talk:Feadering">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Kim_Carr#c-Feadering-2008-07-23T06:39:00.000Z-Purging" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">06:39, 23 July 2008 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Feadering-2008-07-23T06:39:00.000Z-Purging"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Feadering-2008-07-23T06:39:00.000Z-Purging"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Timeshift9-2008-07-23T07:28:00.000Z-Feadering-2008-07-23T06:39:00.000Z"></span>We do not take the bio from the ministers official website or any official website of anyone for any subject matter. It is plagiarism. I have, however, removed uncited contentious information. <a href="/wiki/User:Timeshift9" title="User:Timeshift9">Timeshift</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Timeshift9" title="User talk:Timeshift9">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Kim_Carr#c-Timeshift9-2008-07-23T07:28:00.000Z-Feadering-2008-07-23T06:39:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">07:28, 23 July 2008 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Timeshift9-2008-07-23T07:28:00.000Z-Feadering-2008-07-23T06:39:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Timeshift9-2008-07-23T07:28:00.000Z-Feadering-2008-07-23T06:39:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Peter_Ballard-2008-07-23T07:56:00.000Z-Timeshift9-2008-07-23T07:28:00.000Z"></span>See the guideline <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Autobiography" title="Wikipedia:Autobiography">Wikipedia:Autobiography</a>, which applies equally to people close to the subject (say, staffers). The proper way to deal with problems with the article (and yes, there were some) is to raise it on the Talk page (i.e. here). <a href="/wiki/User:Peter_Ballard" class="mw-redirect" title="User:Peter Ballard">Peter Ballard</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Peter_Ballard" class="mw-redirect" title="User talk:Peter Ballard">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Kim_Carr#c-Peter_Ballard-2008-07-23T07:56:00.000Z-Timeshift9-2008-07-23T07:28:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">07:56, 23 July 2008 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Peter_Ballard-2008-07-23T07:56:00.000Z-Timeshift9-2008-07-23T07:28:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Peter_Ballard-2008-07-23T07:56:00.000Z-Timeshift9-2008-07-23T07:28:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Feadering-2008-07-24T01:08:00.000Z-Purging"></span>The problem however is the adversarial way the email is written. In <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="http://www.apachost.com/downloads/2a6495c6d662_CE16/wikimp2.jpg">this</a> bit, it notes, and i'm quoting: If your entry is incorrect or contains inappropriate material you should immediately apply for semi-protection or full protection. This will restrict the ability of others to amend your entry. <a href="/wiki/User:Timeshift9" title="User:Timeshift9">Timeshift</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Timeshift9" title="User talk:Timeshift9">talk</a>)</dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <p>This Biography is still completely unreferenced. Statements such as 'Carr is a leading figure in the Victorian Labor Party's Socialist Left faction.' are simply asserted with no reference. <small>—Preceding <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Signatures" title="Wikipedia:Signatures">unsigned</a> comment added by <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Feadering&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Feadering (page does not exist)">Feadering</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Feadering" title="User talk:Feadering">talk</a> • <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Feadering" title="Special:Contributions/Feadering">contribs</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Kim_Carr#c-Feadering-2008-07-24T01:08:00.000Z-Purging" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:08, 24 July 2008 (UTC)</a></small><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Feadering-2008-07-24T01:08:00.000Z-Purging"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Feadering-2008-07-24T01:08:00.000Z-Purging"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Timeshift9-2008-07-24T01:27:00.000Z-Feadering-2008-07-24T01:08:00.000Z"></span>Read <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:COI" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:COI">WP:COI</a> sometime. It is one thing to remove libellious incorrect statements, it is another alltogether to come on as a parliamentary MP/staffer and argue for the removal of something you know to be correct simply to censor the article. <a href="/wiki/User:Timeshift9" title="User:Timeshift9">Timeshift</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Timeshift9" title="User talk:Timeshift9">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Kim_Carr#c-Timeshift9-2008-07-24T01:27:00.000Z-Feadering-2008-07-24T01:08:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:27, 24 July 2008 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Timeshift9-2008-07-24T01:27:00.000Z-Feadering-2008-07-24T01:08:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Timeshift9-2008-07-24T01:27:00.000Z-Feadering-2008-07-24T01:08:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Peter_Ballard-2008-07-24T01:34:00.000Z-Timeshift9-2008-07-24T01:27:00.000Z"></span>I added a ref after about 1 minute's googling. There were several to choose from. But you were right to point it out. <a href="/wiki/User:Peter_Ballard" class="mw-redirect" title="User:Peter Ballard">Peter Ballard</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Peter_Ballard" class="mw-redirect" title="User talk:Peter Ballard">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Kim_Carr#c-Peter_Ballard-2008-07-24T01:34:00.000Z-Timeshift9-2008-07-24T01:27:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:34, 24 July 2008 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Peter_Ballard-2008-07-24T01:34:00.000Z-Timeshift9-2008-07-24T01:27:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Peter_Ballard-2008-07-24T01:34:00.000Z-Timeshift9-2008-07-24T01:27:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Peter_Ballard-2008-07-24T01:38:00.000Z-Timeshift9-2008-07-24T01:27:00.000Z"></span>I should add, at least s/he is raising it on the Talk page now, which is the appropriate way to raise things if one has a COI but has issues with the article. <a href="/wiki/User:Peter_Ballard" class="mw-redirect" title="User:Peter Ballard">Peter Ballard</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Peter_Ballard" class="mw-redirect" title="User talk:Peter Ballard">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Kim_Carr#c-Peter_Ballard-2008-07-24T01:38:00.000Z-Timeshift9-2008-07-24T01:27:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:38, 24 July 2008 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Peter_Ballard-2008-07-24T01:38:00.000Z-Timeshift9-2008-07-24T01:27:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Peter_Ballard-2008-07-24T01:38:00.000Z-Timeshift9-2008-07-24T01:27:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Timeshift9-2008-07-24T01:40:00.000Z-Peter_Ballard-2008-07-24T01:38:00.000Z"></span>Agreed. But considering their distaste for non-official references I wonder if they preferred not to have raised the issue now ;-) <a href="/wiki/User:Timeshift9" title="User:Timeshift9">Timeshift</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Timeshift9" title="User talk:Timeshift9">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Kim_Carr#c-Timeshift9-2008-07-24T01:40:00.000Z-Peter_Ballard-2008-07-24T01:38:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:40, 24 July 2008 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Timeshift9-2008-07-24T01:40:00.000Z-Peter_Ballard-2008-07-24T01:38:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Timeshift9-2008-07-24T01:40:00.000Z-Peter_Ballard-2008-07-24T01:38:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Feadering-2008-07-24T01:53:00.000Z-Purging"></span>The abc reference is three years old. Can a better reference be found? <small>—Preceding <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Signatures" title="Wikipedia:Signatures">unsigned</a> comment added by<a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Feadering&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Feadering (page does not exist)">Feadering</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Feadering" title="User talk:Feadering">talk</a>) 01:53, 24 July 2008 (UTC) <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Feadering&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Feadering (page does not exist)">Feadering</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Feadering" title="User talk:Feadering">talk</a> • <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Feadering" title="Special:Contributions/Feadering">contribs</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Kim_Carr#c-Feadering-2008-07-24T01:53:00.000Z-Purging" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:49, 24 July 2008 (UTC)</a></small><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Feadering-2008-07-24T01:53:00.000Z-Purging"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Feadering-2008-07-24T01:53:00.000Z-Purging"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Timeshift9-2008-07-24T01:54:00.000Z-Feadering-2008-07-24T01:53:00.000Z"></span>Haha, I knew it. What's wrong with this ref? We all know the sentence is true, nobody can deny he is a leading member of the left faction. The cite backs it up. Being 3 years old has no bearing on it. What don't you like exactly? The fact the article isn't all positive and glossy? The fact the ref shows some negativity? <a href="/wiki/User:Timeshift9" title="User:Timeshift9">Timeshift</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Timeshift9" title="User talk:Timeshift9">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Kim_Carr#c-Timeshift9-2008-07-24T01:54:00.000Z-Feadering-2008-07-24T01:53:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:54, 24 July 2008 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Timeshift9-2008-07-24T01:54:00.000Z-Feadering-2008-07-24T01:53:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Timeshift9-2008-07-24T01:54:00.000Z-Feadering-2008-07-24T01:53:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Feadering-2008-07-24T02:25:00.000Z-Purging"></span>Not only is this a weak reference, but it only indicates Kim Carr as a member of the socialist left three years ago. It cannot be used to support the statement 'Carr is a leading figure in the Victorian Labor Party's Socialist Left faction.'. As this is a biography of a living person i would suggest that unless this statement can be supported it should be removed. <small>—Preceding <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Signatures" title="Wikipedia:Signatures">unsigned</a> comment added by <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Feadering&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Feadering (page does not exist)">Feadering</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Feadering" title="User talk:Feadering">talk</a> • <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Feadering" title="Special:Contributions/Feadering">contribs</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Kim_Carr#c-Feadering-2008-07-24T02:25:00.000Z-Purging" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:25, 24 July 2008 (UTC)</a></small><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Feadering-2008-07-24T02:25:00.000Z-Purging"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Feadering-2008-07-24T02:25:00.000Z-Purging"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Timeshift9-2008-07-24T02:58:00.000Z-Feadering-2008-07-24T02:25:00.000Z"></span>I quote: "The leader of Victoria's right faction, Senator Stephen Conroy, and the socialist left's Kim Carr accused each other of heinous crimes against the party." Are you prepared to go on the record to say that Carr is not a leading figure in the left faction? I dare you. <a href="/wiki/User:Timeshift9" title="User:Timeshift9">Timeshift</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Timeshift9" title="User talk:Timeshift9">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Kim_Carr#c-Timeshift9-2008-07-24T02:58:00.000Z-Feadering-2008-07-24T02:25:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:58, 24 July 2008 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Timeshift9-2008-07-24T02:58:00.000Z-Feadering-2008-07-24T02:25:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Timeshift9-2008-07-24T02:58:00.000Z-Feadering-2008-07-24T02:25:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Peter_Ballard-2008-07-24T03:04:00.000Z-Timeshift9-2008-07-24T02:58:00.000Z"></span>I found another cite explicitly calling him a leader. I resisted the temptation to use a later one, the one in which he was accused of being a "factional dalek". <a href="/wiki/User:Peter_Ballard" class="mw-redirect" title="User:Peter Ballard">Peter Ballard</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Peter_Ballard" class="mw-redirect" title="User talk:Peter Ballard">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Kim_Carr#c-Peter_Ballard-2008-07-24T03:04:00.000Z-Timeshift9-2008-07-24T02:58:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">03:04, 24 July 2008 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Peter_Ballard-2008-07-24T03:04:00.000Z-Timeshift9-2008-07-24T02:58:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Peter_Ballard-2008-07-24T03:04:00.000Z-Timeshift9-2008-07-24T02:58:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Timeshift9-2008-07-24T03:21:00.000Z-Peter_Ballard-2008-07-24T03:04:00.000Z"></span>"The leader of the Left, federal frontbencher Kim Carr"<a rel="nofollow" class="external autonumber" href="http://www.theage.com.au/news/National/ALP-turmoil-as-factional-fight-spreads/2005/05/23/1116700598080.html">[1]</a>. I'll say it just once more - I dare him to say on the record that it's untrue. Because at the moment it's not about making the article factual and removing any potential libel, it's all about censoring the article from facts they know to be true but want to take it out of the public domain as much as possible as it isn't electorally appealing. And that won't be tolerated. <a href="/wiki/User:Timeshift9" title="User:Timeshift9">Timeshift</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Timeshift9" title="User talk:Timeshift9">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Kim_Carr#c-Timeshift9-2008-07-24T03:21:00.000Z-Peter_Ballard-2008-07-24T03:04:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">03:21, 24 July 2008 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Timeshift9-2008-07-24T03:21:00.000Z-Peter_Ballard-2008-07-24T03:04:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Timeshift9-2008-07-24T03:21:00.000Z-Peter_Ballard-2008-07-24T03:04:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Feadering-2008-07-24T04:07:00.000Z-Purging"></span>My objection still stands. To substantiate the claim I would hope for a reference sometime since the change of government at least.<a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Feadering&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Feadering (page does not exist)">Feadering</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Feadering" title="User talk:Feadering">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Kim_Carr#c-Feadering-2008-07-24T04:07:00.000Z-Purging" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">04:07, 24 July 2008 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Feadering-2008-07-24T04:07:00.000Z-Purging"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Feadering-2008-07-24T04:07:00.000Z-Purging"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Timeshift9-2008-07-24T04:29:00.000Z-Feadering-2008-07-24T04:07:00.000Z"></span>See us not care. It's true, it's reliably referenced, and I still note you argue for it's removal but refuse to say right here that it's false. You're simply here to censor the article, but it won't work as there's no policy for you to stand on. <a href="/wiki/User:Timeshift9" title="User:Timeshift9">Timeshift</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Timeshift9" title="User talk:Timeshift9">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Kim_Carr#c-Timeshift9-2008-07-24T04:29:00.000Z-Feadering-2008-07-24T04:07:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">04:29, 24 July 2008 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Timeshift9-2008-07-24T04:29:00.000Z-Feadering-2008-07-24T04:07:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Timeshift9-2008-07-24T04:29:00.000Z-Feadering-2008-07-24T04:07:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Feadering-2008-07-24T05:01:00.000Z-Purging"></span>Just some Wikipedia policy on Biographies of living persons. Neutral point of view (NPOV) <b>Verifiability</b> No original research <b>We must get the article right.[1] Be very firm about the use of high quality references. Unsourced or poorly sourced contentious material about living persons — whether the material is negative, positive, or just questionable — should be removed immediately and without waiting for discussion,</b> from Wikipedia articles, talk pages, user pages, and project space.[2] </p><p>Biographies of living persons (BLPs) must be written conservatively, with regard for the subject's privacy. Wikipedia is an encyclopedia, not a tabloid; it is not our job to be sensationalist, or to be the primary vehicle for the spread of titillating claims about people's lives. An important rule of thumb when writing biographical material about living persons is "do no harm". </p><p>This policy applies equally to biographies of living persons and to biographical material about living persons on other pages. <b>The burden of evidence for any edit on Wikipedia, but especially for edits about living persons, rests firmly on the shoulders of the person who adds or restores the material.</b><a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Feadering&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Feadering (page does not exist)">Feadering</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Feadering" title="User talk:Feadering">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Kim_Carr#c-Feadering-2008-07-24T05:01:00.000Z-Purging" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">05:01, 24 July 2008 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Feadering-2008-07-24T05:01:00.000Z-Purging"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Feadering-2008-07-24T05:01:00.000Z-Purging"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Jmount-2008-07-24T05:06:00.000Z-Feadering-2008-07-24T05:01:00.000Z"></span>And as far as i can see, the claims have been more than adequately referenced. <a href="/wiki/User:Jmount" class="mw-redirect" title="User:Jmount">Jmount</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Jmount" class="mw-redirect" title="User talk:Jmount">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Kim_Carr#c-Jmount-2008-07-24T05:06:00.000Z-Feadering-2008-07-24T05:01:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">05:06, 24 July 2008 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Jmount-2008-07-24T05:06:00.000Z-Feadering-2008-07-24T05:01:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Jmount-2008-07-24T05:06:00.000Z-Feadering-2008-07-24T05:01:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Timeshift9-2008-07-24T05:07:00.000Z-Jmount-2008-07-24T05:06:00.000Z"></span>Indeed. Nothing has changed, Feadering is wrong, the status quo will remain. Feadering, read your talkpage warning. Your conflict of interest is going to get you in hot water, mark my words. <a href="/wiki/User:Timeshift9" title="User:Timeshift9">Timeshift</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Timeshift9" title="User talk:Timeshift9">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Kim_Carr#c-Timeshift9-2008-07-24T05:07:00.000Z-Jmount-2008-07-24T05:06:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">05:07, 24 July 2008 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Timeshift9-2008-07-24T05:07:00.000Z-Jmount-2008-07-24T05:06:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Timeshift9-2008-07-24T05:07:00.000Z-Jmount-2008-07-24T05:06:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Gimboid13-2008-07-26T00:21:00.000Z-Purging"></span>Today's Canberra Times has some interesting stuff about recent contributions to Wikipedia by Parliamentary Library staff. See: </p> <ul><li><a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="http://www.canberratimes.com.au/news/opinion/editorial/general/addendum-history-manipulators-have-readers-over-their-shoulders/1227304.aspx">Addendum: History manipulators have readers over their shoulders</a></li> <li><a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="http://www.canberratimes.com.au/news/national/national/general/politicians-wiki-entries-altered/1226233.aspx">Politicians' Wiki entries altered</a></li></ul> <p>- <a href="/wiki/User:Gimboid13" title="User:Gimboid13">Gimboid13</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Gimboid13" title="User talk:Gimboid13">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Kim_Carr#c-Gimboid13-2008-07-26T00:21:00.000Z-Purging" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:21, 26 July 2008 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Gimboid13-2008-07-26T00:21:00.000Z-Purging"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Gimboid13-2008-07-26T00:21:00.000Z-Purging"></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Photo" data-mw-thread-id="h-Photo-2008-07-23T07:09:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Photo-2008-07-23T07:09:00.000Z"></span>Photo<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Photo-2008-07-23T07:09:00.000Z"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Talk:Kim_Carr&action=edit&section=2" title="Edit section: Photo"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Feadering-2008-07-24T23:38:00.000Z-Photo"></span>I have reposted the photo again and the license is supplied. Please if there are any more problems with the photo please post on discussion page first rather than deleting as every effort has been made to prove no copyright violations. <small>—Preceding <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Signatures" title="Wikipedia:Signatures">unsigned</a> comment added by <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Feadering&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Feadering (page does not exist)">Feadering</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Feadering" title="User talk:Feadering">talk</a> • <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Feadering" title="Special:Contributions/Feadering">contribs</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Kim_Carr#c-Feadering-2008-07-24T23:38:00.000Z-Photo" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:38, 24 July 2008 (UTC)</a></small><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Feadering-2008-07-24T23:38:00.000Z-Photo"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Feadering-2008-07-24T23:38:00.000Z-Photo"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Timeshift9-2008-07-24T23:44:00.000Z-Feadering-2008-07-24T23:38:00.000Z"></span>And it will continue to be removed. How do we know the license is for real? We do not. An acceptable licensing solution was already outlined below which you have ignored. Your images will continue to be deleted while you continue on your current licensing method. <a href="/wiki/User:Timeshift9" title="User:Timeshift9">Timeshift</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Timeshift9" title="User talk:Timeshift9">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Kim_Carr#c-Timeshift9-2008-07-24T23:44:00.000Z-Feadering-2008-07-24T23:38:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:44, 24 July 2008 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Timeshift9-2008-07-24T23:44:00.000Z-Feadering-2008-07-24T23:38:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Timeshift9-2008-07-24T23:44:00.000Z-Feadering-2008-07-24T23:38:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Timeshift9-2008-07-23T07:09:00.000Z-Photo"></span>The current photo has been released from the Ministers office. It is for public use and is not a copyright infringement.<a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Feadering&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Feadering (page does not exist)">Feadering</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Feadering" title="User talk:Feadering">talk</a>) </p> <dl><dd>I see no license to that effect. Show us where the license is acceptable per wikipedia image standards, and there won't be an issue and i'll personally assist fixing it - because there's nothing i'd like more than to have all ministers, even MPs, with their official photos. <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Photo_-_Andrew_Evans.JPG">This</a> is an example of an acceptable license, note the <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="http://www.sa.familyfirst.org.au/creativecommonslicence.html">source link</a> indicating the license. <a href="/wiki/User:Timeshift9" title="User:Timeshift9">Timeshift</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Timeshift9" title="User talk:Timeshift9">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Kim_Carr#c-Timeshift9-2008-07-23T07:09:00.000Z-Photo" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">07:09, 23 July 2008 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Timeshift9-2008-07-23T07:09:00.000Z-Photo"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Timeshift9-2008-07-23T07:09:00.000Z-Photo"></span></dd></dl> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Timeshift9-2008-07-23T08:16:00.000Z-Timeshift9-2008-07-23T07:09:00.000Z"></span>In addition, to be brutally honest, I know the image is not exactly electorally appealing. But a free image is a free image. <a href="/wiki/User:Timeshift9" title="User:Timeshift9">Timeshift</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Timeshift9" title="User talk:Timeshift9">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Kim_Carr#c-Timeshift9-2008-07-23T08:16:00.000Z-Timeshift9-2008-07-23T07:09:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">08:16, 23 July 2008 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Timeshift9-2008-07-23T08:16:00.000Z-Timeshift9-2008-07-23T07:09:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Timeshift9-2008-07-23T08:16:00.000Z-Timeshift9-2008-07-23T07:09:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Orderinchaos-2008-07-23T08:32:00.000Z-Timeshift9-2008-07-23T08:16:00.000Z"></span>Easiest way is, if you know the Minister, to get a photo taken of him on a digital camera which can then specifically be released under the creative commons licence. (The photo of Andrew Laming on his page was done exactly that way, and a Wikipedia adminstrator helped him get it online.) <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Orderinchaos" title="User talk:Orderinchaos">Orderinchaos</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Kim_Carr#c-Orderinchaos-2008-07-23T08:32:00.000Z-Timeshift9-2008-07-23T08:16:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">08:32, 23 July 2008 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Orderinchaos-2008-07-23T08:32:00.000Z-Timeshift9-2008-07-23T08:16:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Orderinchaos-2008-07-23T08:32:00.000Z-Timeshift9-2008-07-23T08:16:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Timeshift9-2008-07-23T08:40:00.000Z-Orderinchaos-2008-07-23T08:32:00.000Z"></span>The <a class="external text" href="https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:080040_-_015_Sen_Kim_Carr_24_Jan_08.jpg">image</a> looks high enough quality to be an original, but the license is blatently unacceptable. <a href="/wiki/User:Timeshift9" title="User:Timeshift9">Timeshift</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Timeshift9" title="User talk:Timeshift9">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Kim_Carr#c-Timeshift9-2008-07-23T08:40:00.000Z-Orderinchaos-2008-07-23T08:32:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">08:40, 23 July 2008 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Timeshift9-2008-07-23T08:40:00.000Z-Orderinchaos-2008-07-23T08:32:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Timeshift9-2008-07-23T08:40:00.000Z-Orderinchaos-2008-07-23T08:32:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Timeshift9-2008-07-24T03:02:00.000Z-Photo"></span>The image has been deleted for the third time, and will continue to be deleted. I will again make it clear - the licensing you are using is unacceptable. <a href="/wiki/User:Timeshift9" title="User:Timeshift9">Timeshift</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Timeshift9" title="User talk:Timeshift9">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Kim_Carr#c-Timeshift9-2008-07-24T03:02:00.000Z-Photo" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">03:02, 24 July 2008 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Timeshift9-2008-07-24T03:02:00.000Z-Photo"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Timeshift9-2008-07-24T03:02:00.000Z-Photo"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Jmount-2008-07-24T23:47:00.000Z-Timeshift9-2008-07-24T03:02:00.000Z"></span>Surely <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="http://minister.innovation.gov.au/Pages/creativecommonslicense.aspx">this</a> is now enough? It would be in any other case. <a href="/wiki/User:Jmount" class="mw-redirect" title="User:Jmount">Jmount</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Jmount" class="mw-redirect" title="User talk:Jmount">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Kim_Carr#c-Jmount-2008-07-24T23:47:00.000Z-Timeshift9-2008-07-24T03:02:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:47, 24 July 2008 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Jmount-2008-07-24T23:47:00.000Z-Timeshift9-2008-07-24T03:02:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Jmount-2008-07-24T23:47:00.000Z-Timeshift9-2008-07-24T03:02:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Matilda-2008-07-24T23:48:00.000Z-Photo"></span>Although the image has been released under creative commons at <a rel="nofollow" class="external free" href="http://minister.innovation.gov.au/Pages/creativecommonslicense.aspx">http://minister.innovation.gov.au/Pages/creativecommonslicense.aspx</a> it claims the image is a self-portrait? It doesn't appear to be so. Failing to give correct attribution to the photographer invalidates the claim of releasing it. It appears to be a copyright breach - who owns the copyright that it can be released? I have tagged at Commons as disputing the license.--<a href="/wiki/User:Matilda" title="User:Matilda">Matilda</a> <sup><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Matilda" title="User talk:Matilda">talk</a></sup> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Kim_Carr#c-Matilda-2008-07-24T23:48:00.000Z-Photo" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:48, 24 July 2008 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Matilda-2008-07-24T23:48:00.000Z-Photo"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Matilda-2008-07-24T23:48:00.000Z-Photo"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Timeshift9-2008-07-25T00:03:00.000Z-Matilda-2008-07-24T23:48:00.000Z"></span>I see no issues at all with the image being on wikipedia now that we have <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="http://minister.innovation.gov.au/Pages/creativecommonslicense.aspx">this</a>. Does it matter what they claim? It's an image of Kim Carr, on the ministers site, with a cc-by-2.5 license. <a href="/wiki/User:Timeshift9" title="User:Timeshift9">Timeshift</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Timeshift9" title="User talk:Timeshift9">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Kim_Carr#c-Timeshift9-2008-07-25T00:03:00.000Z-Matilda-2008-07-24T23:48:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:03, 25 July 2008 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Timeshift9-2008-07-25T00:03:00.000Z-Matilda-2008-07-24T23:48:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Timeshift9-2008-07-25T00:03:00.000Z-Matilda-2008-07-24T23:48:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Timeshift9-2008-07-25T00:15:00.000Z-Timeshift9-2008-07-25T00:03:00.000Z"></span>Fixed the image. There is no longer any issue with it. <a href="/wiki/User:Timeshift9" title="User:Timeshift9">Timeshift</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Timeshift9" title="User talk:Timeshift9">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Kim_Carr#c-Timeshift9-2008-07-25T00:15:00.000Z-Timeshift9-2008-07-25T00:03:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:15, 25 July 2008 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Timeshift9-2008-07-25T00:15:00.000Z-Timeshift9-2008-07-25T00:03:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Timeshift9-2008-07-25T00:15:00.000Z-Timeshift9-2008-07-25T00:03:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl> <ul><li><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Matilda-2008-07-25T00:45:00.000Z-Matilda-2008-07-24T23:48:00.000Z"></span>I disagree that there are no longer any issues with the photo's licensing. I have disputed the licensing at Commons. see <a href="https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image_talk:080040_-_015_Sen_Kim_Carr_24_Jan_08.jpg" class="extiw" title="commons:Image talk:080040 - 015 Sen Kim Carr 24 Jan 08.jpg">commons:Image talk:080040 - 015 Sen Kim Carr 24 Jan 08.jpg</a> . --<a href="/wiki/User:Matilda" title="User:Matilda">Matilda</a> <sup><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Matilda" title="User talk:Matilda">talk</a></sup> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Kim_Carr#c-Matilda-2008-07-25T00:45:00.000Z-Matilda-2008-07-24T23:48:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:45, 25 July 2008 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Matilda-2008-07-25T00:45:00.000Z-Matilda-2008-07-24T23:48:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Matilda-2008-07-25T00:45:00.000Z-Matilda-2008-07-24T23:48:00.000Z"></span></li> <li><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Matilda-2008-07-25T01:22:00.000Z-Matilda-2008-07-24T23:48:00.000Z"></span>The photo has been tagged as a copyright violation as per <br/></li></ul> <dl><dd><dl><dd>Despite the claim that the image is released under creative commons, the copyright is held by the Commonwealth of Australia and is not freely licensed. Uploader admits Commonwealth holds copyright <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Matilda&diff=227739622&oldid=227731436">here</a>. The copyright relating to the image is explained <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="http://minister.innovation.gov.au/pages/ITRMinister_CopyRight.aspx">here</a>. The image is also used at <a rel="nofollow" class="external free" href="https://www.pm.gov.au/team/cabinet.cfm">http://www.pm.gov.au/team/cabinet.cfm</a> where copyright again is held by the Commonwealth of Australia and explained quite clearly at <a rel="nofollow" class="external free" href="https://www.pm.gov.au/copyright.cfm">http://www.pm.gov.au/copyright.cfm</a> <br/> --<a href="/wiki/User:Matilda" title="User:Matilda">Matilda</a> <sup><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Matilda" title="User talk:Matilda">talk</a></sup> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Kim_Carr#c-Matilda-2008-07-25T01:22:00.000Z-Matilda-2008-07-24T23:48:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:22, 25 July 2008 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Matilda-2008-07-25T01:22:00.000Z-Matilda-2008-07-24T23:48:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Matilda-2008-07-25T01:22:00.000Z-Matilda-2008-07-24T23:48:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Timeshift9-2008-07-25T01:26:00.000Z-Matilda-2008-07-25T01:22:00.000Z"></span>However, it is an image of the minister, on the official ministerial page, <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="http://minister.innovation.gov.au/Pages/creativecommonslicense.aspx">explicitly released</a> under cc-by-2.5. I continue to see no issue here. <a href="/wiki/User:Timeshift9" title="User:Timeshift9">Timeshift</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Timeshift9" title="User talk:Timeshift9">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Kim_Carr#c-Timeshift9-2008-07-25T01:26:00.000Z-Matilda-2008-07-25T01:22:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:26, 25 July 2008 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Timeshift9-2008-07-25T01:26:00.000Z-Matilda-2008-07-25T01:22:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Timeshift9-2008-07-25T01:26:00.000Z-Matilda-2008-07-25T01:22:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <ul><li><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Matilda-2008-07-25T01:37:00.000Z-Matilda-2008-07-24T23:48:00.000Z"></span>The copyright is held by the Commonwealth of Australia. I don't believe there was proper authority to release the image under creative commons. The uploader has admitted the copyright is held by the Commonwealth - there is also the small matter of the image being used on the cabinet page with copyright clearly explained there too. As per <a href="https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Licensing" class="extiw" title="commons:Commons:Licensing">commons:Commons:Licensing</a> it can't be uploaded to Commons under the constraints of CofA copyright. --<a href="/wiki/User:Matilda" title="User:Matilda">Matilda</a> <sup><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Matilda" title="User talk:Matilda">talk</a></sup> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Kim_Carr#c-Matilda-2008-07-25T01:37:00.000Z-Matilda-2008-07-24T23:48:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:37, 25 July 2008 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Matilda-2008-07-25T01:37:00.000Z-Matilda-2008-07-24T23:48:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Matilda-2008-07-25T01:37:00.000Z-Matilda-2008-07-24T23:48:00.000Z"></span> <ul><li><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Matilda-2008-07-25T05:29:00.000Z-Matilda-2008-07-25T01:37:00.000Z"></span>Being discussed for deletion at <a href="https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Deletion_requests/Image:080040_-_015_Sen_Kim_Carr_24_Jan_08.jpg" class="extiw" title="commons:Commons:Deletion requests/Image:080040 - 015 Sen Kim Carr 24 Jan 08.jpg">commons:Commons:Deletion requests/Image:080040 - 015 Sen Kim Carr 24 Jan 08.jpg</a> --<a href="/wiki/User:Matilda" title="User:Matilda">Matilda</a> <sup><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Matilda" title="User talk:Matilda">talk</a></sup> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Kim_Carr#c-Matilda-2008-07-25T05:29:00.000Z-Matilda-2008-07-25T01:37:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">05:29, 25 July 2008 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Matilda-2008-07-25T05:29:00.000Z-Matilda-2008-07-25T01:37:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Matilda-2008-07-25T05:29:00.000Z-Matilda-2008-07-25T01:37:00.000Z"></span></li></ul></li></ul> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Page_affected_by_parliamentary_library_email" data-mw-thread-id="h-Page_affected_by_parliamentary_library_email-2008-07-23T07:14:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Page_affected_by_parliamentary_library_email-2008-07-23T07:14:00.000Z"></span>Page affected by parliamentary library email<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Page_affected_by_parliamentary_library_email-2008-07-23T07:14:00.000Z"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Talk:Kim_Carr&action=edit&section=3" title="Edit section: Page affected by parliamentary library email"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Timeshift9-2008-07-23T07:14:00.000Z-Page_affected_by_parliamentary_library_email"></span>Per <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="http://andrewlanderyou.blogspot.com/2008/07/exclusive-federal-mp-tutored-in-art-of.html">this</a> story. Current user editting page is one of them. It is pity that the parliamentary library, in it's infinate wisdom *cough*, didn't also include the information at <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:COI" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:COI">WP:COI</a>. These MPs and staffers simply should not be editting pages related to them. <a href="/wiki/User:Timeshift9" title="User:Timeshift9">Timeshift</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Timeshift9" title="User talk:Timeshift9">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Kim_Carr#c-Timeshift9-2008-07-23T07:14:00.000Z-Page_affected_by_parliamentary_library_email" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">07:14, 23 July 2008 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Timeshift9-2008-07-23T07:14:00.000Z-Page_affected_by_parliamentary_library_email"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Timeshift9-2008-07-23T07:14:00.000Z-Page_affected_by_parliamentary_library_email"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Peter_Ballard-2008-07-23T07:28:00.000Z-Timeshift9-2008-07-23T07:14:00.000Z"></span>True. However the article did suffer <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:BLP" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:BLP">WP:BLP</a> problems, so I have removed some unsourced material. They can of course be put back if sources can be found. <a href="/wiki/User:Peter_Ballard" class="mw-redirect" title="User:Peter Ballard">Peter Ballard</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Peter_Ballard" class="mw-redirect" title="User talk:Peter Ballard">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Kim_Carr#c-Peter_Ballard-2008-07-23T07:28:00.000Z-Timeshift9-2008-07-23T07:14:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">07:28, 23 July 2008 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Peter_Ballard-2008-07-23T07:28:00.000Z-Timeshift9-2008-07-23T07:14:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Peter_Ballard-2008-07-23T07:28:00.000Z-Timeshift9-2008-07-23T07:14:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Timeshift9-2008-07-23T07:33:00.000Z-Peter_Ballard-2008-07-23T07:28:00.000Z"></span>I've taken a razor to the article. <a href="/wiki/User:Timeshift9" title="User:Timeshift9">Timeshift</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Timeshift9" title="User talk:Timeshift9">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Kim_Carr#c-Timeshift9-2008-07-23T07:33:00.000Z-Peter_Ballard-2008-07-23T07:28:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">07:33, 23 July 2008 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Timeshift9-2008-07-23T07:33:00.000Z-Peter_Ballard-2008-07-23T07:28:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Timeshift9-2008-07-23T07:33:00.000Z-Peter_Ballard-2008-07-23T07:28:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Orderinchaos-2008-07-23T08:33:00.000Z-Timeshift9-2008-07-23T07:33:00.000Z"></span>Yes, there's a saying somewhere about that. The new version is much improved. <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Orderinchaos" title="User talk:Orderinchaos">Orderinchaos</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Kim_Carr#c-Orderinchaos-2008-07-23T08:33:00.000Z-Timeshift9-2008-07-23T07:33:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">08:33, 23 July 2008 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Orderinchaos-2008-07-23T08:33:00.000Z-Timeshift9-2008-07-23T07:33:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Orderinchaos-2008-07-23T08:33:00.000Z-Timeshift9-2008-07-23T07:33:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Timeshift9-2008-07-23T07:54:00.000Z-Page_affected_by_parliamentary_library_email"></span>See <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Requests_for_page_protection#Kim_Carr_.28edit.7Ctalk.7Chistory.7Clinks.7Cwatch.7Clogs.29">here</a> for the staffer's request for protection. <a href="/wiki/User:Timeshift9" title="User:Timeshift9">Timeshift</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Timeshift9" title="User talk:Timeshift9">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Kim_Carr#c-Timeshift9-2008-07-23T07:54:00.000Z-Page_affected_by_parliamentary_library_email" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">07:54, 23 July 2008 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Timeshift9-2008-07-23T07:54:00.000Z-Page_affected_by_parliamentary_library_email"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Timeshift9-2008-07-23T07:54:00.000Z-Page_affected_by_parliamentary_library_email"></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Moving_forward..." data-mw-thread-id="h-Moving_forward...-2008-07-30T21:40:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Moving_forward...-2008-07-30T21:40:00.000Z"></span>Moving forward...<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Moving_forward...-2008-07-30T21:40:00.000Z"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Talk:Kim_Carr&action=edit&section=4" title="Edit section: Moving forward..."><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Timeshift9-2008-07-30T21:40:00.000Z-Moving_forward..."></span>Ok, things have settled down, staffers have gotten over their parliamentary library email. At the time I took the razor to the article when this problem was becoming apparent, but as one news article noted, the branch stacking stuff had been removed. I'm just putting <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Kim_Carr&diff=228595157&oldid=227275142">a diff</a> out from before this started, until now, so changes since then can be reviewed, and added back correctly in a <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:V" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:V">WP:V</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:NPOV" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:NPOV">WP:NPOV</a> way, with citations, if someone believes something shouldn't have been removed. <a href="/wiki/User:Timeshift9" title="User:Timeshift9">Timeshift</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Timeshift9" title="User talk:Timeshift9">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Kim_Carr#c-Timeshift9-2008-07-30T21:40:00.000Z-Moving_forward..." class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:40, 30 July 2008 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Timeshift9-2008-07-30T21:40:00.000Z-Moving_forward..."><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Timeshift9-2008-07-30T21:40:00.000Z-Moving_forward..."></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Kim_Carr_image_source_broken?" data-mw-thread-id="h-Kim_Carr_image_source_broken?-2008-09-10T07:25:00.000Z"><span id="Kim_Carr_image_source_broken.3F"></span><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Kim_Carr_image_source_broken?-2008-09-10T07:25:00.000Z"></span>Kim Carr image source broken?<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Kim_Carr_image_source_broken?-2008-09-10T07:25:00.000Z"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Talk:Kim_Carr&action=edit&section=5" title="Edit section: Kim Carr image source broken?"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Timeshift9-2008-09-10T07:25:00.000Z-Kim_Carr_image_source_broken?"></span>I can't access the link, can anyone else? <a href="/wiki/User:Timeshift9" title="User:Timeshift9">Timeshift</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Timeshift9" title="User talk:Timeshift9">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Kim_Carr#c-Timeshift9-2008-09-10T07:25:00.000Z-Kim_Carr_image_source_broken?" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">07:25, 10 September 2008 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Timeshift9-2008-09-10T07:25:00.000Z-Kim_Carr_image_source_broken?"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Timeshift9-2008-09-10T07:25:00.000Z-Kim_Carr_image_source_broken?"></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Kim_Il_Carr" data-mw-thread-id="h-Kim_Il_Carr-2010-10-10T11:28:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Kim_Il_Carr-2010-10-10T11:28:00.000Z"></span>Kim Il Carr<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Kim_Il_Carr-2010-10-10T11:28:00.000Z"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Talk:Kim_Carr&action=edit&section=6" title="Edit section: Kim Il Carr"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Silent_Billy-2010-10-10T11:28:00.000Z-Kim_Il_Carr"></span>When a note of this commonly used nickname was included in this article, an editor stated it was <i>"Trivial and wp:npov"</i>. </p><p>Plenty of other articles on politicians include such nicknames including those on prominent ones who have actually achieved something, eg the one on Baroness Thatcher includes: </p> <ol><li><i>This provoked a storm of protest from the Labour party and the press, and led to the unflattering moniker "Margaret Thatcher, Milk Snatcher".</i></li> <li><i>She was later nicknamed "Attila the Hen" as well.</i></li></ol> <p>This nickname for Carr might not suit some politically motivated editors but they do add some colour to the article, indicate that his opponents within and without the ALP to do not hold his views in high regard. Whatever the nickname is its inclusion does not breach wp:npov given that the wide use of the nickname is not an opinion but a documented fact. <a href="/wiki/User:Silent_Billy" title="User:Silent Billy">Silent Billy</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Silent_Billy" title="User talk:Silent Billy">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Kim_Carr#c-Silent_Billy-2010-10-10T11:28:00.000Z-Kim_Il_Carr" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">11:28, 10 October 2010 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Silent_Billy-2010-10-10T11:28:00.000Z-Kim_Il_Carr"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Silent_Billy-2010-10-10T11:28:00.000Z-Kim_Il_Carr"></span> </p> <dl><dd><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Timeshift9-2010-10-10T11:30:00.000Z-Silent_Billy-2010-10-10T11:28:00.000Z"></span>WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS</a> is not a valid argument. <a href="/wiki/User:Timeshift9" title="User:Timeshift9">Timeshift</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Timeshift9" title="User talk:Timeshift9">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Kim_Carr#c-Timeshift9-2010-10-10T11:30:00.000Z-Silent_Billy-2010-10-10T11:28:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">11:30, 10 October 2010 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Timeshift9-2010-10-10T11:30:00.000Z-Silent_Billy-2010-10-10T11:28:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Timeshift9-2010-10-10T11:30:00.000Z-Silent_Billy-2010-10-10T11:28:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd><i><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Silent_Billy-2010-10-10T21:28:00.000Z-Timeshift9-2010-10-10T11:30:00.000Z"></span> It is not a Wikipedia policy or guideline</i> just some meandering rationalisations from deletionists. So how about a proper argument rather than dredging up furphies in an attempt to "protect" an article about which you appear to have some proprietorial interest in? Noting the use of a nickname is merely an attempt to put material into the article that will give it a wider historical and social context rather than reading like a hand out given to the bruvvers at a pre-selection meeting. <a href="/wiki/User:Silent_Billy" title="User:Silent Billy">Silent Billy</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Silent_Billy" title="User talk:Silent Billy">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Kim_Carr#c-Silent_Billy-2010-10-10T21:28:00.000Z-Timeshift9-2010-10-10T11:30:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:28, 10 October 2010 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Silent_Billy-2010-10-10T21:28:00.000Z-Timeshift9-2010-10-10T11:30:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Silent_Billy-2010-10-10T21:28:00.000Z-Timeshift9-2010-10-10T11:30:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Timeshift9-2010-10-11T01:17:00.000Z-Silent_Billy-2010-10-10T21:28:00.000Z"></span>Talk about a lack of <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:AGF" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:AGF">WP:AGF</a>. Because of your attitude, i'm gonna get nastier. You don't have <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:CONSENSUS" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:CONSENSUS">WP:CONSENSUS</a> for your changes, as such you cannot re-add it until you have consensus on this talk page. As you don't have it... i'm outta here! Enjoy your day. <a href="/wiki/User:Timeshift9" title="User:Timeshift9">Timeshift</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Timeshift9" title="User talk:Timeshift9">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Kim_Carr#c-Timeshift9-2010-10-11T01:17:00.000Z-Silent_Billy-2010-10-10T21:28:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:17, 11 October 2010 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Timeshift9-2010-10-11T01:17:00.000Z-Silent_Billy-2010-10-10T21:28:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Timeshift9-2010-10-11T01:17:00.000Z-Silent_Billy-2010-10-10T21:28:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Silent_Billy-2010-10-12T04:10:00.000Z-Timeshift9-2010-10-10T11:30:00.000Z"></span>I didn't suggest that I have consensus. As for "Good Faith" coming from you that's rich seeing as on any article you have edited you argue the toss on the contributions of others that might not reflect anything other than a perfect light on the subject of your hero worship or where you feel that you have been one-upped. Have you forgotten the nasty way you bullied the editor who added the image of <a href="/wiki/Nathan_Rees" title="Nathan Rees">Nathan Rees</a> with your carping comments until the poor fellow practically had to do handstands to get your grudging acceptance of the image? <a href="/wiki/User:Silent_Billy" title="User:Silent Billy">Silent Billy</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Silent_Billy" title="User talk:Silent Billy">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Kim_Carr#c-Silent_Billy-2010-10-12T04:10:00.000Z-Timeshift9-2010-10-10T11:30:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">04:10, 12 October 2010 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Silent_Billy-2010-10-12T04:10:00.000Z-Timeshift9-2010-10-10T11:30:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Silent_Billy-2010-10-12T04:10:00.000Z-Timeshift9-2010-10-10T11:30:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Timeshift9-2010-10-12T04:32:00.000Z-Silent_Billy-2010-10-12T04:10:00.000Z"></span>I suggest you build a bridge and get over yourself. Enjoy your day. <a href="/wiki/User:Timeshift9" title="User:Timeshift9">Timeshift</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Timeshift9" title="User talk:Timeshift9">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Kim_Carr#c-Timeshift9-2010-10-12T04:32:00.000Z-Silent_Billy-2010-10-12T04:10:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">04:32, 12 October 2010 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Timeshift9-2010-10-12T04:32:00.000Z-Silent_Billy-2010-10-12T04:10:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Timeshift9-2010-10-12T04:32:00.000Z-Silent_Billy-2010-10-12T04:10:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="External_links_modified" data-mw-thread-id="h-External_links_modified-2017-05-05T21:51:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-External_links_modified-2017-05-05T21:51:00.000Z"></span>External links modified<span data-mw-comment-end="h-External_links_modified-2017-05-05T21:51:00.000Z"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Talk:Kim_Carr&action=edit&section=7" title="Edit section: External links modified"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-InternetArchiveBot-2017-05-05T21:51:00.000Z-External_links_modified"></span>Hello fellow Wikipedians, </p><p>I have just modified 4 external links on <a href="/wiki/Kim_Carr" title="Kim Carr">Kim Carr</a>. Please take a moment to review <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?diff=prev&oldid=778905092">my edit</a>. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit <a href="/wiki/User:Cyberpower678/FaQs#InternetArchiveBot" title="User:Cyberpower678/FaQs">this simple FaQ</a> for additional information. I made the following changes: </p> <ul><li>Added archive <a rel="nofollow" class="external free" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20080721002318/http://minister.industry.gov.au/SenatortheHonKimCarr/Pages/BiographicalInfo.aspx">https://web.archive.org/web/20080721002318/http://minister.industry.gov.au/SenatortheHonKimCarr/Pages/BiographicalInfo.aspx</a> to <a rel="nofollow" class="external free" href="http://minister.industry.gov.au/SenatortheHonKimCarr/Pages/BiographicalInfo.aspx">http://minister.industry.gov.au/SenatortheHonKimCarr/Pages/BiographicalInfo.aspx</a></li> <li>Added archive <a rel="nofollow" class="external free" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20100922052909/http://www.aph.gov.au/Library/parl/43/ministry/ministry.htm">https://web.archive.org/web/20100922052909/http://www.aph.gov.au/Library/parl/43/ministry/ministry.htm</a> to <a rel="nofollow" class="external free" href="http://www.aph.gov.au/Library/parl/43/ministry/ministry.htm">http://www.aph.gov.au/Library/parl/43/ministry/ministry.htm</a></li> <li>Added archive <a rel="nofollow" class="external free" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20120318173557/http://www.pm.gov.au/press-office/changes-ministry">https://web.archive.org/web/20120318173557/http://www.pm.gov.au/press-office/changes-ministry</a> to <a rel="nofollow" class="external free" href="https://www.pm.gov.au/press-office/changes-ministry">http://www.pm.gov.au/press-office/changes-ministry</a></li> <li>Added archive <a rel="nofollow" class="external free" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20120316203911/http://www.pm.gov.au/press-office/changes-ministry-0">https://web.archive.org/web/20120316203911/http://www.pm.gov.au/press-office/changes-ministry-0</a> to <a rel="nofollow" class="external free" href="https://www.pm.gov.au/press-office/changes-ministry-0">http://www.pm.gov.au/press-office/changes-ministry-0</a></li></ul> <p>When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs. </p><p>This message was posted before February 2018. <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Village_pump_(proposals)/Archive_145#Disable_messages_left_by_InternetArchiveBot" title="Wikipedia:Village pump (proposals)/Archive 145">After February 2018</a>, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by <b><span style="color:darkgrey;font-family:monospace">InternetArchiveBot</span></b>. 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Please take a moment to review <a href="/wiki/Special:Diff/816282669" title="Special:Diff/816282669">my edit</a>. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit <a href="/wiki/User:Cyberpower678/FaQs#InternetArchiveBot" title="User:Cyberpower678/FaQs">this simple FaQ</a> for additional information. I made the following changes: </p> <ul><li>Added archive <a rel="nofollow" class="external free" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20080718211820/http://minister.innovation.gov.au/SenatortheHonKimCarr/Pages/BiographicalInfo.aspx">https://web.archive.org/web/20080718211820/http://minister.innovation.gov.au/SenatortheHonKimCarr/Pages/BiographicalInfo.aspx</a> to <a rel="nofollow" class="external free" href="http://minister.innovation.gov.au/SenatortheHonKimCarr/Pages/BiographicalInfo.aspx">http://minister.innovation.gov.au/SenatortheHonKimCarr/Pages/BiographicalInfo.aspx</a></li> <li>Added archive <a rel="nofollow" class="external free" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20080725071245/http://www.aph.gov.au/Senate/senators/homepages/senators.asp?id=AW5">https://web.archive.org/web/20080725071245/http://www.aph.gov.au/Senate/senators/homepages/senators.asp?id=AW5</a> to <a rel="nofollow" class="external free" href="http://www.aph.gov.au/Senate/senators/homepages/senators.asp?id=AW5">http://www.aph.gov.au/Senate/senators/homepages/senators.asp?id=AW5</a></li> <li>Added archive <a rel="nofollow" class="external free" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20080723230448/http://www.alp.org.au/people/carr_kim.php">https://web.archive.org/web/20080723230448/http://www.alp.org.au/people/carr_kim.php</a> to <a rel="nofollow" class="external free" href="http://www.alp.org.au/people/carr_kim.php">http://www.alp.org.au/people/carr_kim.php</a></li></ul> <p>When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs. </p><p>This message was posted before February 2018. <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Village_pump_(proposals)/Archive_145#Disable_messages_left_by_InternetArchiveBot" title="Wikipedia:Village pump (proposals)/Archive 145">After February 2018</a>, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by <b><span style="color:darkgrey;font-family:monospace">InternetArchiveBot</span></b>. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:V" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:V">regular verification</a> using the archive tool instructions below. Editors <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Village_pump_(proposals)/Archive_150#RfC:_Delete_IABot_talk_page_posts?" title="Wikipedia:Village pump (proposals)/Archive 150">have permission</a> to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Village_pump_(proposals)/Archive_150#RfC:_Delete_IABot_talk_page_posts?" title="Wikipedia:Village pump (proposals)/Archive 150">RfC</a> before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template <code>{{<a href="/wiki/Template:Source_check" title="Template:Source check">source check</a>}}</code> <small>(last update: 5 June 2024)</small>. </p> <ul><li>If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://iabot.wmcloud.org/index.php?page=reportfalsepositive">this tool</a>.</li> <li>If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://iabot.wmcloud.org/index.php?page=manageurlsingle">this tool</a>.</li></ul> <p>Cheers.—<a href="/wiki/User:InternetArchiveBot" title="User:InternetArchiveBot"><b><span style="color:darkgrey;font-family:monospace">InternetArchiveBot</span></b></a> <span style="color:green;font-family:Rockwell">(<a href="/wiki/User_talk:InternetArchiveBot" title="User talk:InternetArchiveBot">Report bug</a>)</span> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Kim_Carr#c-InternetArchiveBot-2017-12-20T11:10:00.000Z-External_links_modified_2" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">11:10, 20 December 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-InternetArchiveBot-2017-12-20T11:10:00.000Z-External_links_modified_2"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-InternetArchiveBot-2017-12-20T11:10:00.000Z-External_links_modified_2"></span> </p>    </div><noscript><img src="https://login.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:CentralAutoLogin/start?useformat=desktop&type=1x1&usesul3=0" alt="" width="1" height="1" style="border: none; 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