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comment</span> <ul id="toc-Ass_offensive_in_UK?-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Modern_semantics:_ass" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1 vector-toc-list-item-expanded"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Modern_semantics:_ass"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">5</span> <span>Modern semantics: ass</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">3 comments</span> <ul id="toc-Modern_semantics:_ass-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-picture" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1 vector-toc-list-item-expanded"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#picture"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">6</span> <span>picture</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">4 comments</span> <ul id="toc-picture-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Proposed_move" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1 vector-toc-list-item-expanded"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Proposed_move"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">7</span> <span>Proposed move</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">5 comments</span> <button aria-controls="toc-Proposed_move-sublist" class="cdx-button cdx-button--weight-quiet cdx-button--icon-only vector-toc-toggle"> <span class="vector-icon mw-ui-icon-wikimedia-expand"></span> <span>Toggle Proposed move subsection</span> </button> <ul id="toc-Proposed_move-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> <li id="toc-Survey" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-2"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Survey"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">7.1</span> <span>Survey</span> </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Survey-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-?" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1 vector-toc-list-item-expanded"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#?"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">8</span> <span>?</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">5 comments</span> <ul id="toc-?-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Isn't_this_really_a_dictionary_entry?" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1 vector-toc-list-item-expanded"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Isn't_this_really_a_dictionary_entry?"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">9</span> <span>Isn't this really a dictionary entry?</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">3 comments</span> <ul id="toc-Isn't_this_really_a_dictionary_entry?-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Article_needs_clarification" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1 vector-toc-list-item-expanded"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Article_needs_clarification"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">10</span> <span>Article needs clarification</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">2 comments</span> <ul id="toc-Article_needs_clarification-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Canadian_English_mis-characterized" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1 vector-toc-list-item-expanded"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Canadian_English_mis-characterized"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">11</span> <span>Canadian English mis-characterized</span> </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Canadian_English_mis-characterized-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Irish_Usage" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1 vector-toc-list-item-expanded"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Irish_Usage"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">12</span> <span>Irish Usage</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">1 comment</span> <ul id="toc-Irish_Usage-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Ass_in_the_Commonwealth" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1 vector-toc-list-item-expanded"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Ass_in_the_Commonwealth"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">13</span> <span>Ass in the Commonwealth</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">7 comments</span> <ul id="toc-Ass_in_the_Commonwealth-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-problems_in_"Modern_semantics"" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1 vector-toc-list-item-expanded"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#problems_in_"Modern_semantics""> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">14</span> <span>problems in "Modern semantics"</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">1 comment</span> <ul id="toc-problems_in_"Modern_semantics"-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Pooterus" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1 vector-toc-list-item-expanded"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Pooterus"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">15</span> <span>Pooterus</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">1 comment</span> <ul id="toc-Pooterus-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Etymology" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1 vector-toc-list-item-expanded"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Etymology"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">16</span> <span>Etymology</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">1 comment</span> <ul id="toc-Etymology-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Redirect_to_Arse_(disambiguation)" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1 vector-toc-list-item-expanded"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Redirect_to_Arse_(disambiguation)"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">17</span> 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pages on Wikipedia. If you wish to help, you can <span class="plainlinks"><a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Arse&action=edit">edit the page</a></span> attached to this talk page, or visit the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Disambiguation" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Disambiguation">project page</a>, where you can join the project or contribute to the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Disambiguation" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Disambiguation">discussion</a>.<span class="metadata wpb-metadata"><span class="wpb-project">Disambiguation</span><span class="wpb-project_link">Wikipedia:WikiProject Disambiguation</span><span class="wpb-banner_name">Template:WikiProject Disambiguation</span><span class="wpb-assessment_cat">Disambiguation</span></span></td><td class="mbox-empty-cell"></td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr></tbody></table> <p>-Actually, as a Brit I a can say that to many (most?) brits - certainly here in the midlands - "arse" is considered to be quite rude and certainly you would get a few disapproving looks if loudly vocalised in public. Also, we may not pronounce the "r" in "arse" but we lengthen the "a" to compensate - it makes sense to us, since we also tend to do this in many of our words. Recently on, tv especially, there has been a tendency to use "ass" instead of "arse" as this is not considered to be as offensive by the general public. Seems a bit of a silly distinction to make, really.--<a href="/w/index.php?title=User:81.151.218.59&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:81.151.218.59 (page does not exist)">81.151.218.59</a> 22:46, 13 Apr 2005 (UTC) </p><p>-Wierd thing in America is that "ass" is the taboo way of saying it and "arse" is considered more appro. </p> <meta property="mw:PageProp/toc" /> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Untitled" data-mw-thread-id="h-Untitled-2007-03-11T19:49:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Untitled-2007-03-11T19:49:00.000Z"></span>Untitled<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Untitled-2007-03-11T19:49:00.000Z"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Talk:Arse&action=edit&section=1" title="Edit section: Untitled"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-SmUX-2007-03-11T19:49:00.000Z-Untitled"></span>Don't forget that Americans call their "asses" their "fannies" if they are being polite :-) <a href="/wiki/User:SmUX" title="User:SmUX">SmUX</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Arse#c-SmUX-2007-03-11T19:49:00.000Z-Untitled" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:49, 11 March 2007 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-SmUX-2007-03-11T19:49:00.000Z-Untitled"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-SmUX-2007-03-11T19:49:00.000Z-Untitled"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Kostaki_mou-2008-10-01T21:33:00.000Z-SmUX-2007-03-11T19:49:00.000Z"></span>"Fanny" tends to be a nursery term (though not exclusively). I would say "butt" would be more usual. <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Kostaki_mou&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Kostaki mou (page does not exist)">Kostaki mou</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Kostaki_mou" title="User talk:Kostaki mou">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Arse#c-Kostaki_mou-2008-10-01T21:33:00.000Z-SmUX-2007-03-11T19:49:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:33, 1 October 2008 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Kostaki_mou-2008-10-01T21:33:00.000Z-SmUX-2007-03-11T19:49:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Kostaki_mou-2008-10-01T21:33:00.000Z-SmUX-2007-03-11T19:49:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl> <p>Agreed - although it's become more acceptable in polite speech, there's no way you'd use it in a formal situation or in front of your kids or grandmother. We'd almost always use "bum" instead. I'll amend appropriately. </p><p>-As an american I can say: "Arse" is almost never used in the United States. In fact, Most americans (until they here it spelled) simply think that Brits say the word 'Ass' with extended vowels. Arse is neither appropriate, nor inapropriate....most americans would simply think you made it up (except internet-junkies, and tourists). </p><p>_As a Canadian I'd point out that Arse still receives common use in the Maritime Provinces, namely Newfoundland and Prince Edward Island. Its use is declining in modern times, but would be easily/quickly recognized by older generations across Canada. </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="illustration" data-mw-thread-id="h-illustration-2007-08-15T01:23:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-illustration-2007-08-15T01:23:00.000Z"></span>illustration<span data-mw-comment-end="h-illustration-2007-08-15T01:23:00.000Z"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Talk:Arse&action=edit&section=2" title="Edit section: illustration"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-86.143.51.249-2007-08-15T01:23:00.000Z-illustration"></span>The former similarity of the words is caught in the following verse: </p> <pre>There was a young girl from Madras Who had quite a wonderful ass. Not rounded and pink, as you possibly think, it was grey, had long ears, and ate grass! </pre> <dl><dd>Still works fine if you're a northern Englishman who pronounces Madras and grass with short As! <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:86.143.51.249&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:86.143.51.249 (page does not exist)">86.143.51.249</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Arse#c-86.143.51.249-2007-08-15T01:23:00.000Z-illustration" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:23, 15 August 2007 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-86.143.51.249-2007-08-15T01:23:00.000Z-illustration"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-86.143.51.249-2007-08-15T01:23:00.000Z-illustration"></span></dd></dl> <p><br /><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-98.235.159.187-2009-06-03T16:13:00.000Z-illustration"></span> Well, if it was going to be correct for England, it'd be "grarse". <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">—Preceding <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Signatures" title="Wikipedia:Signatures">unsigned</a> comment added by <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/98.235.159.187" title="Special:Contributions/98.235.159.187">98.235.159.187</a> (<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:98.235.159.187&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User talk:98.235.159.187 (page does not exist)">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Arse#c-98.235.159.187-2009-06-03T16:13:00.000Z-illustration" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:13, 3 June 2009 (UTC)</a></span><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-98.235.159.187-2009-06-03T16:13:00.000Z-illustration"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-98.235.159.187-2009-06-03T16:13:00.000Z-illustration"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Xevious-2009-06-12T18:46:00.000Z-98.235.159.187-2009-06-03T16:13:00.000Z"></span>Nope, I (and most others from the South of England) would pronounce 'grass' in the way anyway. <a href="/wiki/User:Xevious" title="User:Xevious">Tim (Xevious)</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Xevious" title="User talk:Xevious">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Arse#c-Xevious-2009-06-12T18:46:00.000Z-98.235.159.187-2009-06-03T16:13:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:46, 12 June 2009 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Xevious-2009-06-12T18:46:00.000Z-98.235.159.187-2009-06-03T16:13:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Xevious-2009-06-12T18:46:00.000Z-98.235.159.187-2009-06-03T16:13:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Double_Talking" data-mw-thread-id="h-Double_Talking-2006-03-07T13:26:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Double_Talking-2006-03-07T13:26:00.000Z"></span>Double Talking<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Double_Talking-2006-03-07T13:26:00.000Z"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Talk:Arse&action=edit&section=3" title="Edit section: Double Talking"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-The_Font-2006-06-14T23:25:00.000Z-Double_Talking"></span>Somometimes,People may say 'I'm gonna kick your bloody arse!"For "I'm gonna kick your fuckin ass!".odd. -Z.Spy 4 October 2005 </p><p>In what sense is the former <i><b>for</b></i> the latter? (I suspect that the British version is meant more literally.) <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:The_Font&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:The Font (page does not exist)">Grant</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Arse#c-The_Font-2006-06-14T23:25:00.000Z-Double_Talking" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:25, 14 June 2006 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-The_Font-2006-06-14T23:25:00.000Z-Double_Talking"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-The_Font-2006-06-14T23:25:00.000Z-Double_Talking"></span> </p><p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-JayKeaton-2006-03-07T13:26:00.000Z-Double_Talking"></span>Arse is commonly used in Australia, example "Git off your arse!" <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:JayKeaton&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:JayKeaton (page does not exist)">JayKeaton</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Arse#c-JayKeaton-2006-03-07T13:26:00.000Z-Double_Talking" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">13:26, 7 March 2006 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-JayKeaton-2006-03-07T13:26:00.000Z-Double_Talking"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-JayKeaton-2006-03-07T13:26:00.000Z-Double_Talking"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Wakuran-2006-03-15T02:22:00.000Z-JayKeaton-2006-03-07T13:26:00.000Z"></span>Well, Australian English seems to have many similarities with British/Commonwealth English, not surprising. <a href="/wiki/User:Wakuran" title="User:Wakuran">惑乱分からん</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Arse#c-Wakuran-2006-03-15T02:22:00.000Z-JayKeaton-2006-03-07T13:26:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:22, 15 March 2006 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Wakuran-2006-03-15T02:22:00.000Z-JayKeaton-2006-03-07T13:26:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Wakuran-2006-03-15T02:22:00.000Z-JayKeaton-2006-03-07T13:26:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl> <hr /> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Wakuran-2006-03-15T02:22:00.000Z-Double_Talking"></span>What about the american term big-ass? Maybe that's too american and big-arse wouldn't work that way. <a href="/wiki/User:Wakuran" title="User:Wakuran">惑乱分からん</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Arse#c-Wakuran-2006-03-15T02:22:00.000Z-Double_Talking" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:22, 15 March 2006 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Wakuran-2006-03-15T02:22:00.000Z-Double_Talking"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Wakuran-2006-03-15T02:22:00.000Z-Double_Talking"></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Ass_offensive_in_UK?" data-mw-thread-id="h-Ass_offensive_in_UK?-2006-05-26T09:41:00.000Z"><span id="Ass_offensive_in_UK.3F"></span><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Ass_offensive_in_UK?-2006-05-26T09:41:00.000Z"></span>Ass offensive in UK?<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Ass_offensive_in_UK?-2006-05-26T09:41:00.000Z"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Talk:Arse&action=edit&section=4" title="Edit section: Ass offensive in UK?"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Tobermory-2006-05-26T09:41:00.000Z-Ass_offensive_in_UK?"></span>Not too sure about this. I think anyone I would speak to would consider "ass" = "donkey" = "fool" over here (unless there was context to indicate otherwise), certainly in any expression "Stop being an ass"/"Stop acting like an ass". I would be quite happy to use the expression in polite society (but I'd say it with a smile). Even <a href="/wiki/Enid_Blyton" title="Enid Blyton">Enid Blyton</a> (to 1960s) uses it (<a href="/wiki/Famous_Five" class="mw-redirect" title="Famous Five">Famous Five</a> - cant recall where, but I'm certain its in there - Susan to Julian, perhaps?), so if there is any coarse "ass" = "anus" association in such a phrase, it certainly didn't first occur in that context during the Victorian period in the UK, otherwise she would not have used it for her children's books a century later; I expect its a US usage imported via film? <a href="/wiki/User:Tobermory" title="User:Tobermory">Tobermory</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Arse#c-Tobermory-2006-05-26T09:41:00.000Z-Ass_offensive_in_UK?" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">09:41, 26 May 2006 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Tobermory-2006-05-26T09:41:00.000Z-Ass_offensive_in_UK?"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Tobermory-2006-05-26T09:41:00.000Z-Ass_offensive_in_UK?"></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Modern_semantics:_ass" data-mw-thread-id="h-Modern_semantics:_ass-2006-06-14T23:25:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Modern_semantics:_ass-2006-06-14T23:25:00.000Z"></span>Modern semantics: ass<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Modern_semantics:_ass-2006-06-14T23:25:00.000Z"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Talk:Arse&action=edit&section=5" title="Edit section: Modern semantics: ass"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-The_Font-2006-06-14T23:25:00.000Z-Modern_semantics:_ass"></span>Not sure what the third bullet point – a) idiot, b) asshole, etc. – is doing in an article about the word 'arse'. In British English, the word 'ass' would not be used to mean buttocks except as a euphemism, i.e. a less offensive word standing for the <i>real</i> word, 'arse'. Generally, a cod American accent would be employed in this case. I would be very interested to see any example where "people in Britain have adopted the American version in writing" (as alleged in the previous bullet point) other than in a purely (pseudo-)American context. An Englishman who was too polite to say 'arse' would say 'bum' or 'bottom'. </p><p>The second bullet point claims (contrary to all sources I have seen) that 'ass' for 'arse' was a British innovation. If so, it must have died out very quickly; as mentioned elsewhere, in Britain it was perfectly acceptable to call someone a 'silly ass' in polite society (and books for young children) without the slightest concern that it might be misconstrued as a reference to a body part – right up to the 1960s (or even 1970s). </p><p>Back to the third bullet point: Either 'ass' for 'arse' came about independently of 'ass' meaning 'donkey' (in which case, why refer to the donkey-derived senses at all in an article about 'arse'?) or it is itself derived from it (in which case, it is ultimately a euphemism even in the US – so why revert 'euphemistic' to 'literal'?). </p><p>I'm minded to revise these two bullet points. Any thoughts on the matter? <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:The_Font&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:The Font (page does not exist)">Grant</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Arse#c-The_Font-2006-06-14T23:25:00.000Z-Modern_semantics:_ass" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:25, 14 June 2006 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-The_Font-2006-06-14T23:25:00.000Z-Modern_semantics:_ass"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-The_Font-2006-06-14T23:25:00.000Z-Modern_semantics:_ass"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Wakuran-2006-07-11T23:06:00.000Z-The_Font-2006-06-14T23:25:00.000Z"></span>I would't find it strange if the -rs- turning -ss- sound shift emerged first in Britain and later was carried over to the USA. <a href="/wiki/User:Wakuran" title="User:Wakuran">惑乱分からん</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Arse#c-Wakuran-2006-07-11T23:06:00.000Z-The_Font-2006-06-14T23:25:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:06, 11 July 2006 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Wakuran-2006-07-11T23:06:00.000Z-The_Font-2006-06-14T23:25:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Wakuran-2006-07-11T23:06:00.000Z-The_Font-2006-06-14T23:25:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-90.199.76.106-2009-02-09T01:09:00.000Z-Modern_semantics:_ass"></span>The Americans seem to have hijacked the article - its supposed to be about arses, no-one says ass in Britain. <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">—Preceding <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Signatures" title="Wikipedia:Signatures">unsigned</a> comment added by <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/90.199.76.106" title="Special:Contributions/90.199.76.106">90.199.76.106</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:90.199.76.106" title="User talk:90.199.76.106">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Arse#c-90.199.76.106-2009-02-09T01:09:00.000Z-Modern_semantics:_ass" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:09, 9 February 2009 (UTC)</a></span><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-90.199.76.106-2009-02-09T01:09:00.000Z-Modern_semantics:_ass"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-90.199.76.106-2009-02-09T01:09:00.000Z-Modern_semantics:_ass"></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="picture" data-mw-thread-id="h-picture-2006-06-19T22:38:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-picture-2006-06-19T22:38:00.000Z"></span>picture<span data-mw-comment-end="h-picture-2006-06-19T22:38:00.000Z"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Talk:Arse&action=edit&section=6" title="Edit section: picture"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Joeyramoney-2006-06-19T22:38:00.000Z-picture"></span>does that photo have any relevancy to the word "arse" specifically? i don't see how it does. <a href="/wiki/User:Joeyramoney" title="User:Joeyramoney">Joeyramoney</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Arse#c-Joeyramoney-2006-06-19T22:38:00.000Z-picture" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:38, 19 June 2006 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Joeyramoney-2006-06-19T22:38:00.000Z-picture"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Joeyramoney-2006-06-19T22:38:00.000Z-picture"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Cherry_blossom_tree-2006-06-19T22:54:00.000Z-Joeyramoney-2006-06-19T22:38:00.000Z"></span>It's of an arse, I suppose. I considered reverting it when it was added but ultimately didn't. It probably should go since it relates to the concept, rather than the word as discussed in this article. --<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Cherry_blossom_tree" title="User talk:Cherry blossom tree">Cherry blossom tree</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Arse#c-Cherry_blossom_tree-2006-06-19T22:54:00.000Z-Joeyramoney-2006-06-19T22:38:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:54, 19 June 2006 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Cherry_blossom_tree-2006-06-19T22:54:00.000Z-Joeyramoney-2006-06-19T22:38:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Cherry_blossom_tree-2006-06-19T22:54:00.000Z-Joeyramoney-2006-06-19T22:38:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Voortle-2006-09-21T00:16:00.000Z-Cherry_blossom_tree-2006-06-19T22:54:00.000Z"></span>Yeah. Pictures should go only in the <a href="/wiki/Buttocks" title="Buttocks">buttocks</a> article, not here. <a href="/wiki/User:Voortle" title="User:Voortle">Voortle</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Arse#c-Voortle-2006-09-21T00:16:00.000Z-Cherry_blossom_tree-2006-06-19T22:54:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:16, 21 September 2006 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Voortle-2006-09-21T00:16:00.000Z-Cherry_blossom_tree-2006-06-19T22:54:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Voortle-2006-09-21T00:16:00.000Z-Cherry_blossom_tree-2006-06-19T22:54:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="boilerplate" style="background-color: #efe; margin: 2em 0 0 0; padding: 0 10px 0 10px; border: 1px dotted #aaa;"> <dl><dd><i><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Wknight94-2006-09-27T19:24:00.000Z-picture"></span>The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposal. <span style="color:red;"><b>Please do not modify it.</b></span> Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section. </i></dd></dl> <p>The result of the debate was <b>Do Not Move</b>. —<a href="/wiki/User:Wknight94" title="User:Wknight94">Wknight94</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Wknight94" title="User talk:Wknight94">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Arse#c-Wknight94-2006-09-27T19:24:00.000Z-picture" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:24, 27 September 2006 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Wknight94-2006-09-27T19:24:00.000Z-picture"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Wknight94-2006-09-27T19:24:00.000Z-picture"></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Proposed_move" data-mw-thread-id="h-Proposed_move-2006-09-21T00:20:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Proposed_move-2006-09-21T00:20:00.000Z"></span>Proposed move<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Proposed_move-2006-09-21T00:20:00.000Z"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Talk:Arse&action=edit&section=7" title="Edit section: Proposed move"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><a href="/wiki/Arse" class="mw-disambig" title="Arse"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Voortle-2006-09-21T00:20:00.000Z-Proposed_move"></span>arse</a> to <a href="/wiki/Ass_and_arse" class="mw-redirect mw-disambig" title="Ass and arse">ass and arse</a>. The article should be at this title (or at <a href="/w/index.php?title=Arse_and_ass&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Arse and ass (page does not exist)">arse and ass</a>) because it discusses both words, not just one, similar to the <a href="/wiki/Shall_and_will" title="Shall and will">shall and will</a> article, which is not at either <a href="/wiki/Will" class="mw-disambig" title="Will">will</a> or <a href="/wiki/Shall" class="mw-redirect" title="Shall">shall</a>. <a href="/wiki/User:Voortle" title="User:Voortle">Voortle</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Arse#c-Voortle-2006-09-21T00:20:00.000Z-Proposed_move" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:20, 21 September 2006 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Voortle-2006-09-21T00:20:00.000Z-Proposed_move"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Voortle-2006-09-21T00:20:00.000Z-Proposed_move"></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading3"><h3 id="Survey" data-mw-thread-id="h-Survey-Proposed_move-2006-09-21T08:19:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Survey-Proposed_move-2006-09-21T08:19:00.000Z"></span>Survey<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Survey-Proposed_move-2006-09-21T08:19:00.000Z"></span></h3><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Talk:Arse&action=edit&section=8" title="Edit section: Survey"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span></div> <ul><li><b><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Serge_Issakov-2006-09-21T08:19:00.000Z-Survey"></span>Oppose</b>. I agree there is a problem, but disagree with the proposed solution. The most common name used to reference the subject of the article is <a href="/wiki/Ass" class="mw-disambig" title="Ass">ass</a>, but that is (rightfully) a disambiguation page. So I would support <b>Arse</b> -> <b>Ass (arse)</b>, which specifies the most common name (ass), and disambiguates with the British term (arse). --<a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Serge_Issakov&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Serge Issakov (page does not exist)">Serge</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Arse#c-Serge_Issakov-2006-09-21T08:19:00.000Z-Survey" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">08:19, 21 September 2006 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Serge_Issakov-2006-09-21T08:19:00.000Z-Survey"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Serge_Issakov-2006-09-21T08:19:00.000Z-Survey"></span></li> <li><b><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Cherry_blossom_tree-2006-09-21T10:05:00.000Z-Survey"></span>Oppose</b>. The analogy to <a href="/wiki/Shall_and_will" title="Shall and will">shall and will</a> doesn't work because they are different words with subtly different meanings and the article discusses these differences. Ass and arse are just regional variants of each other - the article discusses their shared etymology and usage. I'm also not sure what benefit moving it to <a href="/w/index.php?title=Ass_(arse)&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Ass (arse) (page does not exist)">ass (arse)</a> would have. It's a more complex title and it breaks the disambiguation convention of using <a href="/w/index.php?title=Term_(description)&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Term (description) (page does not exist)">term (description)</a> to use <a href="/w/index.php?title=Term_(synonym)&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Term (synonym) (page does not exist)">term (synonym)</a>, both of which make it more difficult to guess at the title of the article. On top of that, it is basically moving from one form of English to another, which is not done. --<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Cherry_blossom_tree" title="User talk:Cherry blossom tree">Cherry blossom tree</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Arse#c-Cherry_blossom_tree-2006-09-21T10:05:00.000Z-Survey" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">10:05, 21 September 2006 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Cherry_blossom_tree-2006-09-21T10:05:00.000Z-Survey"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Cherry_blossom_tree-2006-09-21T10:05:00.000Z-Survey"></span></li> <li><b><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Fastifex-2006-09-21T11:29:00.000Z-Survey"></span>Oppose</b>. Since ass is absolutely not synonymous with arse, but the etymology-semantics constitute quite a complex word history, each needs a page of its own <a href="/wiki/User:Fastifex" title="User:Fastifex">Fastifex</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Arse#c-Fastifex-2006-09-21T11:29:00.000Z-Survey" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">11:29, 21 September 2006 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Fastifex-2006-09-21T11:29:00.000Z-Survey"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Fastifex-2006-09-21T11:29:00.000Z-Survey"></span></li> <li><b><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Asterion-2006-09-23T17:25:00.000Z-Survey"></span>Oppose</b>. As per above. --<a href="/wiki/User:Asterion" title="User:Asterion"><span style="color:Blue;"><b>Asterion</b></span></a><sup><small><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Asterion" title="User talk:Asterion"><span style="color:Green;"><b>talk</b></span></a></small></sup> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Arse#c-Asterion-2006-09-23T17:25:00.000Z-Survey" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:25, 23 September 2006 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Asterion-2006-09-23T17:25:00.000Z-Survey"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Asterion-2006-09-23T17:25:00.000Z-Survey"></span></li></ul> <dl><dd><i>The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. <span style="color:red;"><b>Please do not modify it.</b></span> Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.</i></dd></dl></div> <p><br /> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="?" data-mw-thread-id="h-?-2006-10-22T03:18:00.000Z"><span id=".3F"></span><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-?-2006-10-22T03:18:00.000Z"></span>?<span data-mw-comment-end="h-?-2006-10-22T03:18:00.000Z"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Talk:Arse&action=edit&section=9" title="Edit section: ?"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Macarion-2006-10-22T03:18:00.000Z-?"></span>Why is this article called arse, but <a href="/wiki/Asshole" title="Asshole">asshole</a> is called asshole and not arsehole? --<a href="/wiki/User:Macarion" title="User:Macarion">Macarion</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Arse#c-Macarion-2006-10-22T03:18:00.000Z-?" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">03:18, 22 October 2006 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Macarion-2006-10-22T03:18:00.000Z-?"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Macarion-2006-10-22T03:18:00.000Z-?"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-SmUX-2007-06-03T19:30:00.000Z-Macarion-2006-10-22T03:18:00.000Z"></span>In England we use the word arse. We call people arseholes. We say 'you are making an arse of youself'. In america (for whatever reason, this isn't a language debate) you replace every arse with ass. They are language differences only. In my experience and an Englishman, here in England the word ass is rarely used except for the following circumstances: <ul><li><b>Jackass</b>: i.e. the television show and film. This is <b>mispronounced</b> <i>jackarse</i> by some people but is should be kept as <i>jackass</i> because the ass here doesn't refer to... well... an arse.</li> <li><b>Americanisms</b>: when either making fun of Americans or mimicking americans, one might say <i>ass</i> instead of <i>arse</i>.</li></ul> <dl><dd>Also, Jackass and ass are totally different in the US. What we in the UK consider an ass to be (the donkey derivative) is what the US call a Jackass...that's why we still call the show "Jackass" <a href="/wiki/User:SmUX" title="User:SmUX">SmUX</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Arse#c-SmUX-2007-06-03T19:30:00.000Z-Macarion-2006-10-22T03:18:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:30, 3 June 2007 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-SmUX-2007-06-03T19:30:00.000Z-Macarion-2006-10-22T03:18:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-SmUX-2007-06-03T19:30:00.000Z-Macarion-2006-10-22T03:18:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Mawkish1983-2007-04-16T14:03:00.000Z-?"></span>(<a href="/wiki/User:Mawkish1983" title="User:Mawkish1983">Mawkish1983</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Arse#c-Mawkish1983-2007-04-16T14:03:00.000Z-?" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">14:03, 16 April 2007 (UTC)</a>)<span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Mawkish1983-2007-04-16T14:03:00.000Z-?"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Mawkish1983-2007-04-16T14:03:00.000Z-?"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Beardo-2006-11-27T02:05:00.000Z-Mawkish1983-2007-04-16T14:03:00.000Z"></span>Because there is something else already at <a href="/wiki/Ass" class="mw-disambig" title="Ass">ass</a>. -- <a href="/wiki/User:Beardo" title="User:Beardo">Beardo</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Arse#c-Beardo-2006-11-27T02:05:00.000Z-Mawkish1983-2007-04-16T14:03:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:05, 27 November 2006 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Beardo-2006-11-27T02:05:00.000Z-Mawkish1983-2007-04-16T14:03:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Beardo-2006-11-27T02:05:00.000Z-Mawkish1983-2007-04-16T14:03:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-SmUX-2007-06-03T19:30:00.000Z-?"></span>You can just taste the ignorance. (unsigned) </p><p>The word "arsehole" is used, I can guarantee the user Macarion who posted it is from the US and showing usual US blind ignorance of other countries and cultures...just because the US doesn't use the word "arsehole" doesn't mean it isn't used...I fired up google (.co.uk) and searched..."Results 1 - 10 of about 546,000 for arsehole"...546k results, and it's not a used word? <a href="/wiki/User:SmUX" title="User:SmUX">SmUX</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Arse#c-SmUX-2007-06-03T19:30:00.000Z-?" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:30, 3 June 2007 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-SmUX-2007-06-03T19:30:00.000Z-?"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-SmUX-2007-06-03T19:30:00.000Z-?"></span> </p><p>I can guarantee that the user SumUX is from the UK, is showing usual UK arrogance and is holding the typical UK idea that British English is superior to the English of other countries and cultures. See, we can all make comments about ridiculous cultural stereotypes, but that just makes people angry and does not help contribute to Wikipedia. So Macarion was wrong about the word "arsehole." That's no reason to insult Americans and use stupid stereotypes. Don't be an asshole, Americans are no more ignorant about other cultures than the British, and you're just perpetuating the stereotype that all English people are pompous arseholes who think they're better than their brethren across the pond. I am aware that is is poorly written and slightly hypocritical, but I think I get my point across. </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Isn't_this_really_a_dictionary_entry?" data-mw-thread-id="h-Isn't_this_really_a_dictionary_entry?-2007-04-19T11:18:00.000Z"><span id="Isn.27t_this_really_a_dictionary_entry.3F"></span><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Isn't_this_really_a_dictionary_entry?-2007-04-19T11:18:00.000Z"></span>Isn't this really a dictionary entry?<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Isn't_this_really_a_dictionary_entry?-2007-04-19T11:18:00.000Z"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Talk:Arse&action=edit&section=10" title="Edit section: Isn't this really a dictionary entry?"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Woblosch-2007-04-19T11:18:00.000Z-Isn't_this_really_a_dictionary_entry?"></span>I'm not clear why this entry is here at all. It seems to me to be all about the <i>word</i>, its usages and definitions, not about the <i>thing itself</i>. <a href="/wiki/User:Woblosch" title="User:Woblosch">Woblosch</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Arse#c-Woblosch-2007-04-19T11:18:00.000Z-Isn't_this_really_a_dictionary_entry?" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">11:18, 19 April 2007 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Woblosch-2007-04-19T11:18:00.000Z-Isn't_this_really_a_dictionary_entry?"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Woblosch-2007-04-19T11:18:00.000Z-Isn't_this_really_a_dictionary_entry?"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Myles325a-2007-07-12T04:06:00.000Z-Woblosch-2007-04-19T11:18:00.000Z"></span>Well, it may be too fine a point, but words are "things" just like bath plugs, WW11, Neptune and Nestorianism, and a comprehensive dictionary is nothing more than a specialised encyclopedia of language matters. OTOH, if your dictionary does not extend to historical and regional treatments of a word, and there is sufficient public interest in such matters in the case of a specific word, then it belongs in Wikipedia quite naturally. <a href="/wiki/User:Myles325a" title="User:Myles325a">Myles325a</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Arse#c-Myles325a-2007-07-12T04:06:00.000Z-Woblosch-2007-04-19T11:18:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">04:06, 12 July 2007 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Myles325a-2007-07-12T04:06:00.000Z-Woblosch-2007-04-19T11:18:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Myles325a-2007-07-12T04:06:00.000Z-Woblosch-2007-04-19T11:18:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl> <p><br /><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Herbys-2007-05-19T04:29:00.000Z-Isn't_this_really_a_dictionary_entry?"></span> Well, for one it doesn't even include a definition for the word. <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Herbys&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Herbys (page does not exist)">Herbys</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Arse#c-Herbys-2007-05-19T04:29:00.000Z-Isn't_this_really_a_dictionary_entry?" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">04:29, 19 May 2007 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Herbys-2007-05-19T04:29:00.000Z-Isn't_this_really_a_dictionary_entry?"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Herbys-2007-05-19T04:29:00.000Z-Isn't_this_really_a_dictionary_entry?"></span> </p><p><br /> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Article_needs_clarification" data-mw-thread-id="h-Article_needs_clarification-2007-07-12T04:18:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Article_needs_clarification-2007-07-12T04:18:00.000Z"></span>Article needs clarification<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Article_needs_clarification-2007-07-12T04:18:00.000Z"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Talk:Arse&action=edit&section=11" title="Edit section: Article needs clarification"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Myles325a-2007-07-12T04:18:00.000Z-Article_needs_clarification"></span>This article needs some work in that the concepts of "words" and "terms" are confused with each other throughout. </p><p>First, there should be an introductory note explaining that there are two separate terms that share the same word “ass”: buttocks; and "ass": donkey; and that these are not etymologically related by derivation from the beginning, although each of the two words has had a historical influence on the other. </p><p>Second, regional variations in the pronunciation of “arse” are complex, and some attempt should be made to define them succinctly. In Britain, and most of the Commonwealth (certainly in Australia) it is said so as to rhyme with “farce”, whereas in the United States it rhymes with “gas”. (Although I believe that Northern parts of Britain still continue to pronounce words like past, last, grass etc the way the Americans do, that is, rhyming with “gas”. I’ll make a few clarifications, but I’ll need some help here. <a href="/wiki/User:Myles325a" title="User:Myles325a">Myles325a</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Arse#c-Myles325a-2007-07-12T04:18:00.000Z-Article_needs_clarification" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">04:18, 12 July 2007 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Myles325a-2007-07-12T04:18:00.000Z-Article_needs_clarification"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Myles325a-2007-07-12T04:18:00.000Z-Article_needs_clarification"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-167.1.176.4-2008-03-27T14:14:00.000Z-Myles325a-2007-07-12T04:18:00.000Z"></span>Well as someone from the northern half (pronounced haff) of Britain i can confirm that i too pronounce grass, last and pass with a short 'a' sound, however as Arse has an 'R' in it, it does not rhyme with grass or pass. <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/167.1.176.4" title="Special:Contributions/167.1.176.4">167.1.176.4</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:167.1.176.4" title="User talk:167.1.176.4">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Arse#c-167.1.176.4-2008-03-27T14:14:00.000Z-Myles325a-2007-07-12T04:18:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">14:14, 27 March 2008 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-167.1.176.4-2008-03-27T14:14:00.000Z-Myles325a-2007-07-12T04:18:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-167.1.176.4-2008-03-27T14:14:00.000Z-Myles325a-2007-07-12T04:18:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Canadian_English_mis-characterized" data-mw-thread-id="h-Canadian_English_mis-characterized"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Canadian_English_mis-characterized"></span>Canadian English mis-characterized<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Canadian_English_mis-characterized"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Talk:Arse&action=edit&section=12" title="Edit section: Canadian English mis-characterized"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span></div> <p>The term "arse" is quite common in Canada along with its variant, "arse-hole". This word is used more than the more American "ass" in some regions in Canada, the Atlantic provinces in particular. Some regions favour one term, others favour the others, and many use them interchangably depending on the desired humorous effect. </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Irish_Usage" data-mw-thread-id="h-Irish_Usage-2008-06-11T02:35:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Irish_Usage-2008-06-11T02:35:00.000Z"></span>Irish Usage<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Irish_Usage-2008-06-11T02:35:00.000Z"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Talk:Arse&action=edit&section=13" title="Edit section: Irish Usage"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Kostaki_mou-2008-06-11T02:35:00.000Z-Irish_Usage"></span>I have heard both "ass" and "arse" in Ireland (from Irish). "Ass" is used in John B. Keane's play <i>The Chastitute</i>, for example (at least, in the production I saw in Dublin). (Of course, one or two Irish have lived in the States.) <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Kostaki_mou&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Kostaki mou (page does not exist)">Kostaki mou</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Kostaki_mou" title="User talk:Kostaki mou">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Arse#c-Kostaki_mou-2008-06-11T02:35:00.000Z-Irish_Usage" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:35, 11 June 2008 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Kostaki_mou-2008-06-11T02:35:00.000Z-Irish_Usage"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Kostaki_mou-2008-06-11T02:35:00.000Z-Irish_Usage"></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Ass_in_the_Commonwealth" data-mw-thread-id="h-Ass_in_the_Commonwealth-2007-10-07T20:08:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Ass_in_the_Commonwealth-2007-10-07T20:08:00.000Z"></span>Ass in the Commonwealth<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Ass_in_the_Commonwealth-2007-10-07T20:08:00.000Z"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Talk:Arse&action=edit&section=14" title="Edit section: Ass in the Commonwealth"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-MichiganCharms-2007-10-07T20:08:00.000Z-Ass_in_the_Commonwealth"></span>I know quite a few (mainly younger) Commonwealth English speakers who use 'ass' instead of 'arse', they mostly attribute it to American influence but it's certainly preferred. I doubt this is limited to the people *I* know. -<a href="/wiki/User:MichiganCharms" title="User:MichiganCharms">MichiganCharms</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Arse#c-MichiganCharms-2007-10-07T20:08:00.000Z-Ass_in_the_Commonwealth" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:08, 7 October 2007 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-MichiganCharms-2007-10-07T20:08:00.000Z-Ass_in_the_Commonwealth"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-MichiganCharms-2007-10-07T20:08:00.000Z-Ass_in_the_Commonwealth"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Gazh-2007-10-15T20:28:00.000Z-MichiganCharms-2007-10-07T20:08:00.000Z"></span>This is also somewhat prevalent in the UK, however i would say it is mostly a passing phase that kids grow out of, i can distinctly remember using this word instead of arse when i was a teenager mostly because i thought Eminem and Limp Bizkit were cool, and ofcourse because my mates used it. And can safely say however that upon maturing that all my friends (and myself) have thankfully reverted to using arse. <a href="/wiki/User:Gazh" title="User:Gazh">Gazh</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Arse#c-Gazh-2007-10-15T20:28:00.000Z-MichiganCharms-2007-10-07T20:08:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:28, 15 October 2007 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Gazh-2007-10-15T20:28:00.000Z-MichiganCharms-2007-10-07T20:08:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Gazh-2007-10-15T20:28:00.000Z-MichiganCharms-2007-10-07T20:08:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Kostaki_mou-2008-10-01T21:25:00.000Z-Gazh-2007-10-15T20:28:00.000Z"></span>I fail to see why one usage should be regarded as more or less mature than the other. It is only natural that speakers of different varieties of a language should be influenced by each other--often in ways they are not aware of. They are not hermetically sealed from one another. <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Kostaki_mou&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Kostaki mou (page does not exist)">Kostaki mou</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Kostaki_mou" title="User talk:Kostaki mou">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Arse#c-Kostaki_mou-2008-10-01T21:25:00.000Z-Gazh-2007-10-15T20:28:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:25, 1 October 2008 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Kostaki_mou-2008-10-01T21:25:00.000Z-Gazh-2007-10-15T20:28:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Kostaki_mou-2008-10-01T21:25:00.000Z-Gazh-2007-10-15T20:28:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Gazh-2009-03-23T09:56:00.000Z-Kostaki_mou-2008-10-01T21:25:00.000Z"></span>One term itself is no more mature than than the other, but it's usage is out of place and is/was often used because it was prevelant on <i>cool</i> American TV shows or music, there is a massive growing awareness within the youth of Britain that the American media outlets are/were having a huge influence on the youth here and as a result a <i>reverse</i> of this trend is seemingly in motion. When i say ass, i usually say it in a broad American accent, when i say arse, i say it in my own accent. It's as much as a nod to being British and different from Americans than anything else. <a href="/wiki/User:Gazh" title="User:Gazh">Gazh</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Gazh" title="User talk:Gazh">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Arse#c-Gazh-2009-03-23T09:56:00.000Z-Kostaki_mou-2008-10-01T21:25:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">09:56, 23 March 2009 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Gazh-2009-03-23T09:56:00.000Z-Kostaki_mou-2008-10-01T21:25:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Gazh-2009-03-23T09:56:00.000Z-Kostaki_mou-2008-10-01T21:25:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Kostaki_mou-2009-03-23T22:01:00.000Z-Gazh-2009-03-23T09:56:00.000Z"></span>If you want to purge your speech of Americanisms, you'd have to do an awful lot more than using "arse" instead of "ass." American influence on English speech (and vice versa) has been going on for a long time. There are countless American usages current in England whose origins most English people are no longer conscious of. Of course, some "Americanisms" are only usages that had remained in use in the States after they became obsolete in England ("gotten" being an example). <small><span class="autosigned">—Preceding <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Signatures" title="Wikipedia:Signatures">unsigned</a> comment added by <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Kostaki_mou&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Kostaki mou (page does not exist)">Kostaki mou</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Kostaki_mou" title="User talk:Kostaki mou">talk</a> • <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Kostaki_mou" title="Special:Contributions/Kostaki mou">contribs</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Arse#c-Kostaki_mou-2009-03-23T22:01:00.000Z-Gazh-2009-03-23T09:56:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:01, 23 March 2009 (UTC)</a></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Kostaki_mou-2009-03-23T22:01:00.000Z-Gazh-2009-03-23T09:56:00.000Z"></span></small><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Kostaki_mou-2009-03-23T22:01:00.000Z-Gazh-2009-03-23T09:56:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Gazh-2009-03-24T11:23:00.000Z-Kostaki_mou-2009-03-23T22:01:00.000Z"></span>Hmm, <i>Americanisms</i> of old are a part of our speech though - so we wouldn't be as concerned over them, though i'd doubt there are many true <i>Americanisms</i> that have not remained in England without dying out, gotten has always been used in the region i'm from as have many many obselete words, pronunciations and grammatical <i>errors</i> that no longer exists in the US and indeed a good 90% of England. Ass remains a blantant <i>Americanism</i> though and only kids or people impersonating an American would use it. <a href="/wiki/User:Gazh" title="User:Gazh">Gazh</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Gazh" title="User talk:Gazh">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Arse#c-Gazh-2009-03-24T11:23:00.000Z-Kostaki_mou-2009-03-23T22:01:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">11:23, 24 March 2009 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Gazh-2009-03-24T11:23:00.000Z-Kostaki_mou-2009-03-23T22:01:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Gazh-2009-03-24T11:23:00.000Z-Kostaki_mou-2009-03-23T22:01:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-75.17.142.244-2007-10-17T02:09:00.000Z-Ass_in_the_Commonwealth"></span>A tag has been placed on <a href="/wiki/Arse" class="mw-disambig" title="Arse">Arse</a>, requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:CSD#Articles" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:CSD">criteria for speedy deletion</a>, because the article seems to be blatant advertising which only promotes a company, product, group, service or person and would need to be fundamentally rewritten in order to become an encyclopedia article. Please read <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Criteria_for_speedy_deletion#G11" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:Criteria for speedy deletion">the general criteria for speedy deletion</a>, particularly item 11, as well as <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:SPAM" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:SPAM">the guidelines on spam</a>. </p><p>If you can indicate why the subject of this article is not blatant advertising, you may contest the tagging. To do this, please add <code><span class="nowrap">{{</span><a href="/wiki/Template:Hangon" title="Template:Hangon">hangon</a><span class="nowrap">}}</span></code> on the top of the article and leave a note on <a class="mw-selflink selflink">the article's talk page</a> explaining your position. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag yourself, but don't hesitate to add information to the article that would help make it encyclopedic, as well as adding any <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Citing_sources" title="Wikipedia:Citing sources">citations</a> from <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Reliable_sources" title="Wikipedia:Reliable sources">reliable sources</a> to ensure that the article will be <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Verifiability" title="Wikipedia:Verifiability">verifiable</a>. Feel free to leave a note on my talk page if you have any questions about this. <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:75.17.142.244&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:75.17.142.244 (page does not exist)">75.17.142.244</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Arse#c-75.17.142.244-2007-10-17T02:09:00.000Z-Ass_in_the_Commonwealth" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:09, 17 October 2007 (UTC)</a> Game Suspect to be Spam<span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-75.17.142.244-2007-10-17T02:09:00.000Z-Ass_in_the_Commonwealth"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-75.17.142.244-2007-10-17T02:09:00.000Z-Ass_in_the_Commonwealth"></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="problems_in_"Modern_semantics"" data-mw-thread-id="h-problems_in_"Modern_semantics"-2007-10-20T14:30:00.000Z"><span id="problems_in_.22Modern_semantics.22"></span><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-problems_in_"Modern_semantics"-2007-10-20T14:30:00.000Z"></span>problems in "Modern semantics"<span data-mw-comment-end="h-problems_in_"Modern_semantics"-2007-10-20T14:30:00.000Z"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Talk:Arse&action=edit&section=15" title="Edit section: problems in "Modern semantics""><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Espoo-2007-10-20T14:30:00.000Z-problems_in_"Modern_semantics""></span>Apparently the pronunciation "ass" instead of "arse" is not a euphemism due to US prudishness, as a common urban legend claims. It in fact developed before the existence of the American colonies and is part of a linguistic process that can be observed in many other words too (e.g. burst/bust, curse/cuss, horse/hoss, barse/bass). The main cause seems to have been the arrival of non-rhotic pronunciation that made "arse" sound like "ass". Some of these changes happened as early as in late Middle English, when barse became bass, for example. "Bust" in the sense and pronunciation derived from "burst" was specifically a US invention, which happened in the mid 18th century (New Oxford), so it seems that r dropping was pretty normal in US English at the time. I always thought r dropping was a UK specialty and never happened in the American colonies, so I'll have to look for info about when that development stopped and reversed in the US since <a href="/wiki/Rhotic_and_non-rhotic_accents" class="mw-redirect" title="Rhotic and non-rhotic accents">Rhotic and non-rhotic accents</a> provides no info on this. </p><p>It would seem that it's pretty important that "arse" was rarely seen and mostly heard. This could perhaps explain why the apparent reversal of r dropping that happened in the US in other words didn't affect a word that sounded like it didn't have an r (anymore). </p><p>The euphemism related to ass/arse is elsewhere, in the use of "donkey" instead of "ass", but this seems to have been a mostly or entirely British development predating the existence or the linguistic independence of the American colonies. Since "ass" had already been replaced by "donkey" for a long time in English, US Americans could use it to unequivocally refer to the pejorative senses of donkey and buttocks. </p><p>Both this WP article and the <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?search=ass&searchmode=none">etymology dictionary</a> in the references have some illogical statements that are apparently simple confusions and sloppiness: </p><p>1) The dictionary says "ass (2) ...from Amer.Eng. pronunciation of arse", but that makes no sense, since r dropping was no doubt not more common in the American colonies than in the UK. </p><p>2) Instead of </p><p>"Although before World War I they were similar, the English pronunciations of "ass" /æs/ and "arse" /ɑːs/ are now quite different apart from in American English speaking countries, although arse is commonly used in Atlantic Canada, west of the Ottawa river, ass is more idiomatic." </p><p>is this what is meant?: </p><p>Although before World War I they were similar, the British English pronunciations of "ass" /æs/ and "arse" /ɑːs/ are now quite different. In American English, they were also pronounced quite similarly in the past when non-rhotic pronunciation ("r dropping") was more common. Since "ass" was replaced by "donkey" (in both UK and US English), it became possible for US Americans to use "ass" only for the pejorative meanings of both words. Although "arse" is commonly used in Atlantic Canada, "ass" is more idiomatic west of the Ottawa river. --<a href="/wiki/User:Espoo" title="User:Espoo">Espoo</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Arse#c-Espoo-2007-10-20T14:30:00.000Z-problems_in_"Modern_semantics"" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">14:30, 20 October 2007 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Espoo-2007-10-20T14:30:00.000Z-problems_in_"Modern_semantics""><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Espoo-2007-10-20T14:30:00.000Z-problems_in_"Modern_semantics""></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Pooterus" data-mw-thread-id="h-Pooterus-2008-02-01T22:11:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Pooterus-2008-02-01T22:11:00.000Z"></span>Pooterus<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Pooterus-2008-02-01T22:11:00.000Z"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Talk:Arse&action=edit&section=16" title="Edit section: Pooterus"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Cherry_blossom_tree-2008-02-01T22:11:00.000Z-Pooterus"></span>I can's find any supporting reference for the inclusion if this term. If anyone can, please list it rather than simply inserting it again. Thanks. --<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Cherry_blossom_tree" title="User talk:Cherry blossom tree">Cherry blossom tree</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Arse#c-Cherry_blossom_tree-2008-02-01T22:11:00.000Z-Pooterus" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:11, 1 February 2008 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Cherry_blossom_tree-2008-02-01T22:11:00.000Z-Pooterus"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Cherry_blossom_tree-2008-02-01T22:11:00.000Z-Pooterus"></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Etymology" data-mw-thread-id="h-Etymology-2008-12-28T01:16:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Etymology-2008-12-28T01:16:00.000Z"></span>Etymology<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Etymology-2008-12-28T01:16:00.000Z"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Talk:Arse&action=edit&section=17" title="Edit section: Etymology"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-116.28.1.191-2008-12-28T01:16:00.000Z-Etymology"></span>"which meaning ass" Apart from the poor English here, the wikilink on 'ass' is to a disambiguation page.<a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/116.28.1.191" title="Special:Contributions/116.28.1.191">116.28.1.191</a> (<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:116.28.1.191&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User talk:116.28.1.191 (page does not exist)">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Arse#c-116.28.1.191-2008-12-28T01:16:00.000Z-Etymology" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:16, 28 December 2008 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-116.28.1.191-2008-12-28T01:16:00.000Z-Etymology"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-116.28.1.191-2008-12-28T01:16:00.000Z-Etymology"></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Redirect_to_Arse_(disambiguation)" data-mw-thread-id="h-Redirect_to_Arse_(disambiguation)-2009-08-30T18:26:00.000Z"><span id="Redirect_to_Arse_.28disambiguation.29"></span><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Redirect_to_Arse_(disambiguation)-2009-08-30T18:26:00.000Z"></span>Redirect to <a href="/wiki/Arse_(disambiguation)" class="mw-redirect mw-disambig" title="Arse (disambiguation)">Arse (disambiguation)</a><span data-mw-comment-end="h-Redirect_to_Arse_(disambiguation)-2009-08-30T18:26:00.000Z"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Talk:Arse&action=edit&section=18" title="Edit section: Redirect to Arse (disambiguation)"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-LtPowers-2009-08-30T18:26:00.000Z-Redirect_to_Arse_(disambiguation)"></span>My redirection of this page to <a href="/wiki/Arse_(disambiguation)" class="mw-redirect mw-disambig" title="Arse (disambiguation)">Arse (disambiguation)</a> was <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Arse&curid=501251&diff=310903637&oldid=310160750">reverted</a> with a request for discussion. This article is nothing more than a dictionary entry, containing definition, etymology, and usage notes. There is nothing encyclopedic here that isn't already covered in <a href="/wiki/Buttocks#Synonyms" title="Buttocks">Buttocks#Synonyms</a>. Note that we do not have an article for the American equivalent, "Ass" (it's a disambiguation page). <a href="/wiki/User:LtPowers" title="User:LtPowers">Powers</a> <sup><small><small><a href="/wiki/User_talk:LtPowers" title="User talk:LtPowers">T</a></small></small></sup> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Arse#c-LtPowers-2009-08-30T18:26:00.000Z-Redirect_to_Arse_(disambiguation)" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:26, 30 August 2009 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-LtPowers-2009-08-30T18:26:00.000Z-Redirect_to_Arse_(disambiguation)"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-LtPowers-2009-08-30T18:26:00.000Z-Redirect_to_Arse_(disambiguation)"></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Use_in_Canada" data-mw-thread-id="h-Use_in_Canada"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Use_in_Canada"></span>Use in Canada<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Use_in_Canada"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Talk:Arse&action=edit&section=19" title="Edit section: Use in Canada"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span></div>    </div><noscript><img src="https://login.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:CentralAutoLogin/start?useformat=desktop&type=1x1&usesul3=0" alt="" width="1" height="1" style="border: none; position: absolute;"></noscript> <div class="printfooter" data-nosnippet="">Retrieved from "<a dir="ltr" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Arse&oldid=1243801529">https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Arse&oldid=1243801529</a>"</div></div> <div id="catlinks" class="catlinks" data-mw="interface"><div id="mw-normal-catlinks" class="mw-normal-catlinks"><a href="/wiki/Help:Category" title="Help:Category">Category</a>: <ul><li><a href="/wiki/Category:WikiProject_Disambiguation_pages" title="Category:WikiProject Disambiguation pages">WikiProject Disambiguation pages</a></li></ul></div></div> </div> </main> </div> <div class="mw-footer-container"> <footer id="footer" class="mw-footer" > <ul id="footer-info"> <li id="footer-info-lastmod"> This page was last edited on 3 September 2024, at 14:32<span class="anonymous-show"> (UTC)</span>.</li> <li id="footer-info-copyright">Text is available under the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Text_of_the_Creative_Commons_Attribution-ShareAlike_4.0_International_License" title="Wikipedia:Text of the Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike 4.0 International License">Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike 4.0 License</a>; additional terms may apply. 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