CINXE.COM

<!DOCTYPE html> <html class="client-nojs vector-feature-language-in-header-enabled vector-feature-language-in-main-page-header-disabled vector-feature-page-tools-pinned-disabled vector-feature-toc-pinned-clientpref-1 vector-feature-main-menu-pinned-disabled vector-feature-limited-width-clientpref-1 vector-feature-limited-width-content-enabled vector-feature-custom-font-size-clientpref-1 vector-feature-appearance-pinned-clientpref-1 vector-feature-night-mode-enabled skin-theme-clientpref-day vector-sticky-header-enabled vector-toc-available" lang="en" dir="ltr"> <head> <meta charset="UTF-8"> <title>Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard - Wikipedia</title> <script>(function(){var className="client-js vector-feature-language-in-header-enabled vector-feature-language-in-main-page-header-disabled vector-feature-page-tools-pinned-disabled vector-feature-toc-pinned-clientpref-1 vector-feature-main-menu-pinned-disabled vector-feature-limited-width-clientpref-1 vector-feature-limited-width-content-enabled vector-feature-custom-font-size-clientpref-1 vector-feature-appearance-pinned-clientpref-1 vector-feature-night-mode-enabled skin-theme-clientpref-day vector-sticky-header-enabled vector-toc-available";var cookie=document.cookie.match(/(?:^|; )enwikimwclientpreferences=([^;]+)/);if(cookie){cookie[1].split('%2C').forEach(function(pref){className=className.replace(new RegExp('(^| )'+pref.replace(/-clientpref-\w+$|[^\w-]+/g,'')+'-clientpref-\\w+( |$)'),'$1'+pref+'$2');});}document.documentElement.className=className;}());RLCONF={"wgBreakFrames":false,"wgSeparatorTransformTable":["",""],"wgDigitTransformTable":["",""],"wgDefaultDateFormat":"dmy", "wgMonthNames":["","January","February","March","April","May","June","July","August","September","October","November","December"],"wgRequestId":"2d7c73a1-c1c3-4fbd-ac07-1147950502c3","wgCanonicalNamespace":"Project","wgCanonicalSpecialPageName":false,"wgNamespaceNumber":4,"wgPageName":"Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard","wgTitle":"Administrators' noticeboard","wgCurRevisionId":1278641896,"wgRevisionId":1278641896,"wgArticleId":5149102,"wgIsArticle":true,"wgIsRedirect":false,"wgAction":"view","wgUserName":null,"wgUserGroups":["*"],"wgCategories":["Noindexed pages","Wikipedia move-protected project pages","Non-talk pages that are automatically signed","Pages automatically checked for incorrect links","Wikipedia noticeboards"],"wgPageViewLanguage":"en","wgPageContentLanguage":"en","wgPageContentModel":"wikitext","wgRelevantPageName":"Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard","wgRelevantArticleId":5149102,"wgIsProbablyEditable":true,"wgRelevantPageIsProbablyEditable":true, "wgRestrictionEdit":[],"wgRestrictionMove":["sysop"],"wgNoticeProject":"wikipedia","wgCiteReferencePreviewsActive":false,"wgFlaggedRevsParams":{"tags":{"status":{"levels":1}}},"wgMediaViewerOnClick":true,"wgMediaViewerEnabledByDefault":true,"wgPopupsFlags":0,"wgVisualEditor":{"pageLanguageCode":"en","pageLanguageDir":"ltr","pageVariantFallbacks":"en"},"wgMFDisplayWikibaseDescriptions":{"search":true,"watchlist":true,"tagline":false,"nearby":true},"wgWMESchemaEditAttemptStepOversample":false,"wgWMEPageLength":400000,"wgEditSubmitButtonLabelPublish":true,"wgDiscussionToolsFeaturesEnabled":{"replytool":true,"newtopictool":true,"sourcemodetoolbar":true,"topicsubscription":false,"autotopicsub":false,"visualenhancements":false,"visualenhancements_reply":false,"visualenhancements_pageframe":false},"wgDiscussionToolsFallbackEditMode":"source","wgULSPosition":"interlanguage","wgULSisCompactLinksEnabled":false,"wgVector2022LanguageInHeader":true,"wgULSisLanguageSelectorEmpty":false, "wgWikibaseItemId":"Q4580256","wgCheckUserClientHintsHeadersJsApi":["brands","architecture","bitness","fullVersionList","mobile","model","platform","platformVersion"],"GEHomepageSuggestedEditsEnableTopics":true,"wgGETopicsMatchModeEnabled":false,"wgGEStructuredTaskRejectionReasonTextInputEnabled":false,"wgGELevelingUpEnabledForUser":false};RLSTATE={"ext.globalCssJs.user.styles":"ready","site.styles":"ready","user.styles":"ready","ext.globalCssJs.user":"ready","user":"ready","user.options":"loading","ext.inputBox.styles":"ready","ext.discussionTools.init.styles":"ready","oojs-ui-core.styles":"ready","oojs-ui.styles.indicators":"ready","mediawiki.widgets.styles":"ready","oojs-ui-core.icons":"ready","skins.vector.search.codex.styles":"ready","skins.vector.styles":"ready","skins.vector.icons":"ready","jquery.makeCollapsible.styles":"ready","mediawiki.ui.button":"ready","ext.wikimediamessages.styles":"ready","ext.visualEditor.desktopArticleTarget.noscript":"ready","ext.uls.interlanguage": "ready","wikibase.client.init":"ready","ext.wikimediaBadges":"ready"};RLPAGEMODULES=["site","mediawiki.page.ready","jquery.makeCollapsible","mediawiki.toc","skins.vector.js","ext.centralNotice.geoIP","ext.centralNotice.startUp","ext.gadget.ReferenceTooltips","ext.gadget.switcher","ext.urlShortener.toolbar","ext.centralauth.centralautologin","mmv.bootstrap","ext.popups","ext.visualEditor.desktopArticleTarget.init","ext.visualEditor.targetLoader","ext.echo.centralauth","ext.discussionTools.init","ext.eventLogging","ext.wikimediaEvents","ext.navigationTiming","ext.uls.interface","ext.cx.eventlogging.campaigns","wikibase.client.vector-2022","ext.checkUser.clientHints"];</script> <script>(RLQ=window.RLQ||[]).push(function(){mw.loader.impl(function(){return["user.options@12s5i",function($,jQuery,require,module){mw.user.tokens.set({"patrolToken":"+\\","watchToken":"+\\","csrfToken":"+\\"}); }];});});</script> <link rel="stylesheet" href="/w/load.php?lang=en&modules=ext.discussionTools.init.styles%7Cext.inputBox.styles%7Cext.uls.interlanguage%7Cext.visualEditor.desktopArticleTarget.noscript%7Cext.wikimediaBadges%7Cext.wikimediamessages.styles%7Cjquery.makeCollapsible.styles%7Cmediawiki.ui.button%7Cmediawiki.widgets.styles%7Coojs-ui-core.icons%2Cstyles%7Coojs-ui.styles.indicators%7Cskins.vector.icons%2Cstyles%7Cskins.vector.search.codex.styles%7Cwikibase.client.init&only=styles&skin=vector-2022"> <script async="" src="/w/load.php?lang=en&modules=startup&only=scripts&raw=1&skin=vector-2022"></script> <meta name="ResourceLoaderDynamicStyles" content=""> <link rel="stylesheet" href="/w/load.php?lang=en&modules=site.styles&only=styles&skin=vector-2022"> <meta name="generator" content="MediaWiki 1.44.0-wmf.18"> <meta name="referrer" content="origin"> <meta name="referrer" content="origin-when-cross-origin"> <meta name="robots" content="noindex,follow,max-image-preview:standard"> <meta name="format-detection" content="telephone=no"> <meta name="viewport" content="width=1120"> <meta property="og:title" content="Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard - Wikipedia"> <meta property="og:type" content="website"> <link rel="preconnect" href="//upload.wikimedia.org"> <link rel="alternate" media="only screen and (max-width: 640px)" href="//en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard"> <link rel="alternate" type="application/x-wiki" title="Edit this page" href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard&action=edit"> <link rel="apple-touch-icon" href="/static/apple-touch/wikipedia.png"> <link rel="icon" href="/static/favicon/wikipedia.ico"> <link rel="search" type="application/opensearchdescription+xml" href="/w/rest.php/v1/search" title="Wikipedia (en)"> <link rel="EditURI" type="application/rsd+xml" href="//en.wikipedia.org/w/api.php?action=rsd"> <link rel="canonical" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard"> <link rel="license" href="https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/deed.en"> <link rel="alternate" type="application/atom+xml" title="Wikipedia Atom feed" href="/w/index.php?title=Special:RecentChanges&feed=atom"> <link rel="dns-prefetch" href="//meta.wikimedia.org" /> <link rel="dns-prefetch" href="login.wikimedia.org"> </head> <body class="ext-discussiontools-replytool-enabled ext-discussiontools-newtopictool-enabled ext-discussiontools-sourcemodetoolbar-enabled skin--responsive skin-vector skin-vector-search-vue mediawiki ltr sitedir-ltr mw-hide-empty-elt ns-4 ns-subject mw-editable page-Wikipedia_Administrators_noticeboard rootpage-Wikipedia_Administrators_noticeboard skin-vector-2022 action-view"><a class="mw-jump-link" href="#bodyContent">Jump to content</a> <div class="vector-header-container"> <header class="vector-header mw-header"> <div class="vector-header-start"> <nav class="vector-main-menu-landmark" aria-label="Site"> <div id="vector-main-menu-dropdown" class="vector-dropdown vector-main-menu-dropdown vector-button-flush-left vector-button-flush-right" title="Main menu" > <input type="checkbox" id="vector-main-menu-dropdown-checkbox" role="button" aria-haspopup="true" data-event-name="ui.dropdown-vector-main-menu-dropdown" class="vector-dropdown-checkbox " aria-label="Main menu" > <label id="vector-main-menu-dropdown-label" for="vector-main-menu-dropdown-checkbox" class="vector-dropdown-label cdx-button cdx-button--fake-button cdx-button--fake-button--enabled cdx-button--weight-quiet cdx-button--icon-only " aria-hidden="true" > Main menu </label> <div class="vector-dropdown-content"> <div id="vector-main-menu-unpinned-container" class="vector-unpinned-container"> <div id="vector-main-menu" class="vector-main-menu vector-pinnable-element"> <div class="vector-pinnable-header vector-main-menu-pinnable-header vector-pinnable-header-unpinned" data-feature-name="main-menu-pinned" data-pinnable-element-id="vector-main-menu" data-pinned-container-id="vector-main-menu-pinned-container" data-unpinned-container-id="vector-main-menu-unpinned-container" > <div class="vector-pinnable-header-label">Main menu</div> <button class="vector-pinnable-header-toggle-button vector-pinnable-header-pin-button" data-event-name="pinnable-header.vector-main-menu.pin">move to sidebar</button> <button class="vector-pinnable-header-toggle-button vector-pinnable-header-unpin-button" data-event-name="pinnable-header.vector-main-menu.unpin">hide</button> </div> <div id="p-navigation" class="vector-menu mw-portlet mw-portlet-navigation" > <div class="vector-menu-heading"> Navigation </div> <div class="vector-menu-content"> <ul class="vector-menu-content-list"> <li id="n-mainpage-description" class="mw-list-item"><a href="/wiki/Main_Page" title="Visit the main page [z]" accesskey="z">Main page</a></li><li id="n-contents" class="mw-list-item"><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Contents" title="Guides to browsing Wikipedia">Contents</a></li><li id="n-currentevents" class="mw-list-item"><a href="/wiki/Portal:Current_events" title="Articles related to current events">Current events</a></li><li id="n-randompage" class="mw-list-item"><a href="/wiki/Special:Random" title="Visit a randomly selected article [x]" accesskey="x">Random article</a></li><li id="n-aboutsite" class="mw-list-item"><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:About" title="Learn about Wikipedia and how it works">About Wikipedia</a></li><li id="n-contactpage" class="mw-list-item"><a href="//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Contact_us" title="How to contact Wikipedia">Contact us</a></li> </ul> </div> </div> <div id="p-interaction" class="vector-menu mw-portlet mw-portlet-interaction" > <div class="vector-menu-heading"> Contribute </div> <div class="vector-menu-content"> <ul class="vector-menu-content-list"> <li id="n-help" class="mw-list-item"><a href="/wiki/Help:Contents" title="Guidance on how to use and edit Wikipedia">Help</a></li><li id="n-introduction" class="mw-list-item"><a href="/wiki/Help:Introduction" title="Learn how to edit Wikipedia">Learn to edit</a></li><li id="n-portal" class="mw-list-item"><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Community_portal" title="The hub for editors">Community portal</a></li><li id="n-recentchanges" class="mw-list-item"><a href="/wiki/Special:RecentChanges" title="A list of recent changes to Wikipedia [r]" accesskey="r">Recent changes</a></li><li id="n-upload" class="mw-list-item"><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:File_upload_wizard" title="Add images or other media for use on Wikipedia">Upload file</a></li><li id="n-specialpages" class="mw-list-item"><a href="/wiki/Special:SpecialPages">Special pages</a></li> </ul> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </nav> <a href="/wiki/Main_Page" class="mw-logo"> <img class="mw-logo-icon" src="/static/images/icons/wikipedia.png" alt="" aria-hidden="true" height="50" width="50"> <img class="mw-logo-wordmark" alt="Wikipedia" src="/static/images/mobile/copyright/wikipedia-wordmark-en.svg" style="width: 7.5em; height: 1.125em;"> <img class="mw-logo-tagline" alt="The Free Encyclopedia" src="/static/images/mobile/copyright/wikipedia-tagline-en.svg" width="117" height="13" style="width: 7.3125em; height: 0.8125em;"> </a> </div> <div class="vector-header-end"> <div id="p-search" role="search" class="vector-search-box-vue vector-search-box-collapses vector-search-box-show-thumbnail vector-search-box-auto-expand-width vector-search-box"> <a href="/wiki/Special:Search" class="cdx-button cdx-button--fake-button cdx-button--fake-button--enabled cdx-button--weight-quiet cdx-button--icon-only search-toggle" title="Search Wikipedia [f]" accesskey="f"> Search </a> <div class="vector-typeahead-search-container"> <div class="cdx-typeahead-search cdx-typeahead-search--show-thumbnail cdx-typeahead-search--auto-expand-width"> <form action="/w/index.php" id="searchform" class="cdx-search-input cdx-search-input--has-end-button"> <div id="simpleSearch" class="cdx-search-input__input-wrapper" data-search-loc="header-moved"> <div class="cdx-text-input cdx-text-input--has-start-icon"> <input class="cdx-text-input__input" type="search" name="search" placeholder="Search Wikipedia" aria-label="Search Wikipedia" autocapitalize="sentences" title="Search Wikipedia [f]" accesskey="f" id="searchInput" > </div> <input type="hidden" name="title" value="Special:Search"> </div> <button class="cdx-button cdx-search-input__end-button">Search</button> </form> </div> </div> </div> <nav class="vector-user-links vector-user-links-wide" aria-label="Personal tools"> <div class="vector-user-links-main"> <div id="p-vector-user-menu-preferences" class="vector-menu mw-portlet emptyPortlet" > <div class="vector-menu-content"> <ul class="vector-menu-content-list"> </ul> </div> </div> <div id="p-vector-user-menu-userpage" class="vector-menu mw-portlet emptyPortlet" > <div class="vector-menu-content"> <ul class="vector-menu-content-list"> </ul> </div> </div> <nav class="vector-appearance-landmark" aria-label="Appearance"> <div id="vector-appearance-dropdown" class="vector-dropdown " title="Change the appearance of the page's font size, width, and color" > <input type="checkbox" id="vector-appearance-dropdown-checkbox" role="button" aria-haspopup="true" data-event-name="ui.dropdown-vector-appearance-dropdown" class="vector-dropdown-checkbox " aria-label="Appearance" > <label id="vector-appearance-dropdown-label" for="vector-appearance-dropdown-checkbox" class="vector-dropdown-label cdx-button cdx-button--fake-button cdx-button--fake-button--enabled cdx-button--weight-quiet cdx-button--icon-only " aria-hidden="true" > Appearance </label> <div class="vector-dropdown-content"> <div id="vector-appearance-unpinned-container" class="vector-unpinned-container"> </div> </div> </div> </nav> <div id="p-vector-user-menu-notifications" class="vector-menu mw-portlet emptyPortlet" > <div class="vector-menu-content"> <ul class="vector-menu-content-list"> </ul> </div> </div> <div id="p-vector-user-menu-overflow" class="vector-menu mw-portlet" > <div class="vector-menu-content"> <ul class="vector-menu-content-list"> <li id="pt-sitesupport-2" class="user-links-collapsible-item mw-list-item user-links-collapsible-item"><a data-mw="interface" href="https://donate.wikimedia.org/?wmf_source=donate&wmf_medium=sidebar&wmf_campaign=en.wikipedia.org&uselang=en" class="">Donate</a> </li> <li id="pt-createaccount-2" class="user-links-collapsible-item mw-list-item user-links-collapsible-item"><a data-mw="interface" href="/w/index.php?title=Special:CreateAccount&returnto=Wikipedia%3AAdministrators%27+noticeboard" title="You are encouraged to create an account and log in; however, it is not mandatory" class="">Create account</a> </li> <li id="pt-login-2" class="user-links-collapsible-item mw-list-item user-links-collapsible-item"><a data-mw="interface" href="/w/index.php?title=Special:UserLogin&returnto=Wikipedia%3AAdministrators%27+noticeboard" title="You're encouraged to log in; however, it's not mandatory. [o]" accesskey="o" class="">Log in</a> </li> </ul> </div> </div> </div> <div id="vector-user-links-dropdown" class="vector-dropdown vector-user-menu vector-button-flush-right vector-user-menu-logged-out" title="Log in and more options" > <input type="checkbox" id="vector-user-links-dropdown-checkbox" role="button" aria-haspopup="true" data-event-name="ui.dropdown-vector-user-links-dropdown" class="vector-dropdown-checkbox " aria-label="Personal tools" > <label id="vector-user-links-dropdown-label" for="vector-user-links-dropdown-checkbox" class="vector-dropdown-label cdx-button cdx-button--fake-button cdx-button--fake-button--enabled cdx-button--weight-quiet cdx-button--icon-only " aria-hidden="true" > Personal tools </label> <div class="vector-dropdown-content"> <div id="p-personal" class="vector-menu mw-portlet mw-portlet-personal user-links-collapsible-item" title="User menu" > <div class="vector-menu-content"> <ul class="vector-menu-content-list"> <li id="pt-sitesupport" class="user-links-collapsible-item mw-list-item"><a href="https://donate.wikimedia.org/?wmf_source=donate&wmf_medium=sidebar&wmf_campaign=en.wikipedia.org&uselang=en">Donate</a></li><li id="pt-createaccount" class="user-links-collapsible-item mw-list-item"><a href="/w/index.php?title=Special:CreateAccount&returnto=Wikipedia%3AAdministrators%27+noticeboard" title="You are encouraged to create an account and log in; however, it is not mandatory"> Create account</a></li><li id="pt-login" class="user-links-collapsible-item mw-list-item"><a href="/w/index.php?title=Special:UserLogin&returnto=Wikipedia%3AAdministrators%27+noticeboard" title="You're encouraged to log in; however, it's not mandatory. [o]" accesskey="o"> Log in</a></li> </ul> </div> </div> <div id="p-user-menu-anon-editor" class="vector-menu mw-portlet mw-portlet-user-menu-anon-editor" > <div class="vector-menu-heading"> Pages for logged out editors <a href="/wiki/Help:Introduction" aria-label="Learn more about editing">learn more</a> </div> <div class="vector-menu-content"> <ul class="vector-menu-content-list"> <li id="pt-anoncontribs" class="mw-list-item"><a href="/wiki/Special:MyContributions" title="A list of edits made from this IP address [y]" accesskey="y">Contributions</a></li><li id="pt-anontalk" class="mw-list-item"><a href="/wiki/Special:MyTalk" title="Discussion about edits from this IP address [n]" accesskey="n">Talk</a></li> </ul> </div> </div> </div> </div> </nav> </div> </header> </div> <div class="mw-page-container"> <div class="mw-page-container-inner"> <div class="vector-sitenotice-container"> <div id="siteNotice"></div> </div> <div class="vector-column-start"> <div class="vector-main-menu-container"> <div id="mw-navigation"> <nav id="mw-panel" class="vector-main-menu-landmark" aria-label="Site"> <div id="vector-main-menu-pinned-container" class="vector-pinned-container"> </div> </nav> </div> </div> <div class="vector-sticky-pinned-container"> <nav id="mw-panel-toc" aria-label="Contents" data-event-name="ui.sidebar-toc" class="mw-table-of-contents-container vector-toc-landmark"> <div id="vector-toc-pinned-container" class="vector-pinned-container"> <div id="vector-toc" class="vector-toc vector-pinnable-element"> <div class="vector-pinnable-header vector-toc-pinnable-header vector-pinnable-header-pinned" data-feature-name="toc-pinned" data-pinnable-element-id="vector-toc" > <h2 class="vector-pinnable-header-label">Contents</h2> <button class="vector-pinnable-header-toggle-button vector-pinnable-header-pin-button" data-event-name="pinnable-header.vector-toc.pin">move to sidebar</button> <button class="vector-pinnable-header-toggle-button vector-pinnable-header-unpin-button" data-event-name="pinnable-header.vector-toc.unpin">hide</button> </div> <ul class="vector-toc-contents" id="mw-panel-toc-list"> <li id="toc-mw-content-text" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a href="#" class="vector-toc-link"> <div class="vector-toc-text">(Top)</div> </a> </li> <li id="toc-Open_tasks" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Open_tasks"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 1 Open tasks </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Open_tasks-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Arbitration_enforcement_action_appeal_by_Dev0745" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Arbitration_enforcement_action_appeal_by_Dev0745"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 2 Arbitration enforcement action appeal by Dev0745 </div> </a> 21 comments <button aria-controls="toc-Arbitration_enforcement_action_appeal_by_Dev0745-sublist" class="cdx-button cdx-button--weight-quiet cdx-button--icon-only vector-toc-toggle"> Toggle Arbitration enforcement action appeal by Dev0745 subsection </button> <ul id="toc-Arbitration_enforcement_action_appeal_by_Dev0745-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> <li id="toc-Statement_by_Dev0745" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-2"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Statement_by_Dev0745"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 2.1 Statement by Dev0745 </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Statement_by_Dev0745-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Statement_by_Tamzin" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-2"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Statement_by_Tamzin"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 2.2 Statement by Tamzin </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Statement_by_Tamzin-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Statement_by_(involved_editor_1)" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-2"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Statement_by_(involved_editor_1)"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 2.3 Statement by (involved editor 1) </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Statement_by_(involved_editor_1)-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Statement_by_(involved_editor_2)" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-2"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Statement_by_(involved_editor_2)"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 2.4 Statement by (involved editor 2) </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Statement_by_(involved_editor_2)-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Discussion_among_uninvolved_editors_about_the_appeal_by_Dev0745" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-2"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Discussion_among_uninvolved_editors_about_the_appeal_by_Dev0745"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 2.5 Discussion among uninvolved editors about the appeal by Dev0745 </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Discussion_among_uninvolved_editors_about_the_appeal_by_Dev0745-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Banned_user_posting_from_an_IP_address" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Banned_user_posting_from_an_IP_address"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 3 Banned user posting from an IP address </div> </a> 4 comments <ul id="toc-Banned_user_posting_from_an_IP_address-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Query_regarding_MAB" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Query_regarding_MAB"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 4 Query regarding MAB </div> </a> 15 comments <ul id="toc-Query_regarding_MAB-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Request_for_review_of_RfC_closure_at_Talk:Genocide" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Request_for_review_of_RfC_closure_at_Talk:Genocide"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 5 Request for review of RfC closure at Talk:Genocide </div> </a> 21 comments <button aria-controls="toc-Request_for_review_of_RfC_closure_at_Talk:Genocide-sublist" class="cdx-button cdx-button--weight-quiet cdx-button--icon-only vector-toc-toggle"> Toggle Request for review of RfC closure at Talk:Genocide subsection </button> <ul id="toc-Request_for_review_of_RfC_closure_at_Talk:Genocide-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> <li id="toc-Closer_(Genocide_RfC)" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-2"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Closer_(Genocide_RfC)"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 5.1 Closer (Genocide RfC) </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Closer_(Genocide_RfC)-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Non-Participants_(Genocide_RfC)" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-2"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Non-Participants_(Genocide_RfC)"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 5.2 Non-Participants (Genocide RfC) </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Non-Participants_(Genocide_RfC)-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Participants_(Genocide_RfC)" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-2"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Participants_(Genocide_RfC)"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 5.3 Participants (Genocide RfC) </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Participants_(Genocide_RfC)-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Discussion_(Genocide_RfC)" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-2"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Discussion_(Genocide_RfC)"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 5.4 Discussion (Genocide RfC) </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Discussion_(Genocide_RfC)-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Reopening_or_new_RfC" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-2"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Reopening_or_new_RfC"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 5.5 Reopening or new RfC </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Reopening_or_new_RfC-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-RfC_closure_review_request_at_Talk:Republican_Party_(United_States)#Discussion_RfC_Should_"Far-right"_be_used_in_the_infobox" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#RfC_closure_review_request_at_Talk:Republican_Party_(United_States)#Discussion_RfC_Should_"Far-right"_be_used_in_the_infobox"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 6 RfC closure review request at Talk:Republican Party (United States)#Discussion RfC Should "Far-right" be used in the infobox </div> </a> 38 comments <button aria-controls="toc-RfC_closure_review_request_at_Talk:Republican_Party_(United_States)#Discussion_RfC_Should_"Far-right"_be_used_in_the_infobox-sublist" class="cdx-button cdx-button--weight-quiet cdx-button--icon-only vector-toc-toggle"> Toggle RfC closure review request at Talk:Republican Party (United States)#Discussion RfC Should "Far-right" be used in the infobox subsection </button> <ul id="toc-RfC_closure_review_request_at_Talk:Republican_Party_(United_States)#Discussion_RfC_Should_"Far-right"_be_used_in_the_infobox-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> <li id="toc-Closer_(Republican_"far-right"_RfC)" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-2"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Closer_(Republican_"far-right"_RfC)"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 6.1 Closer (Republican "far-right" RfC) </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Closer_(Republican_"far-right"_RfC)-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Non-participants_(Republican_"far-right"_RfC)" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-2"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Non-participants_(Republican_"far-right"_RfC)"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 6.2 Non-participants (Republican "far-right" RfC) </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Non-participants_(Republican_"far-right"_RfC)-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Participants_(Republican_"far-right"_RfC)" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-2"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Participants_(Republican_"far-right"_RfC)"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 6.3 Participants (Republican "far-right" RfC) </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Participants_(Republican_"far-right"_RfC)-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Discussion_(Republican_"far-right"_RfC)" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-2"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Discussion_(Republican_"far-right"_RfC)"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 6.4 Discussion (Republican "far-right" RfC) </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Discussion_(Republican_"far-right"_RfC)-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Kash_Patel_RfC" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Kash_Patel_RfC"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 7 Kash Patel RfC </div> </a> 36 comments <ul id="toc-Kash_Patel_RfC-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Unban_request_from_Elpresidente360" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Unban_request_from_Elpresidente360"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 8 Unban request from Elpresidente360 </div> </a> 7 comments <ul id="toc-Unban_request_from_Elpresidente360-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Threats_and_ad-hominems_being_used_to_bully_editor" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Threats_and_ad-hominems_being_used_to_bully_editor"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 9 Threats and ad-hominems being used to bully editor </div> </a> 50 comments <ul id="toc-Threats_and_ad-hominems_being_used_to_bully_editor-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Arbitration_enforcement_action_appeal_by_Toa_Nidhiki05" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Arbitration_enforcement_action_appeal_by_Toa_Nidhiki05"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 10 Arbitration enforcement action appeal by Toa Nidhiki05 </div> </a> 45 comments <button aria-controls="toc-Arbitration_enforcement_action_appeal_by_Toa_Nidhiki05-sublist" class="cdx-button cdx-button--weight-quiet cdx-button--icon-only vector-toc-toggle"> Toggle Arbitration enforcement action appeal by Toa Nidhiki05 subsection </button> <ul id="toc-Arbitration_enforcement_action_appeal_by_Toa_Nidhiki05-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> <li id="toc-Statement_by_Toa_Nidhiki05" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-2"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Statement_by_Toa_Nidhiki05"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 10.1 Statement by Toa Nidhiki05 </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Statement_by_Toa_Nidhiki05-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Statement_by_Rosguill" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-2"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Statement_by_Rosguill"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 10.2 Statement by Rosguill </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Statement_by_Rosguill-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Statement_by_Barkeep49" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-2"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Statement_by_Barkeep49"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 10.3 Statement by Barkeep49 </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Statement_by_Barkeep49-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Statement_by_Vanamonde" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-2"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Statement_by_Vanamonde"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 10.4 Statement by Vanamonde </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Statement_by_Vanamonde-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Statement_by_Guerillero" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-2"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Statement_by_Guerillero"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 10.5 Statement by Guerillero </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Statement_by_Guerillero-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Statement_by_Seraphimblade" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-2"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Statement_by_Seraphimblade"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 10.6 Statement by Seraphimblade </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Statement_by_Seraphimblade-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Statement_by_Cortador" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-2"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Statement_by_Cortador"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 10.7 Statement by Cortador </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Statement_by_Cortador-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Statement_by_Jessintime" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-2"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Statement_by_Jessintime"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 10.8 Statement by Jessintime </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Statement_by_Jessintime-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Statement_by_BootsED" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-2"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Statement_by_BootsED"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 10.9 Statement by BootsED </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Statement_by_BootsED-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Statement_by_the_Four_Deuces" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-2"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Statement_by_the_Four_Deuces"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 10.10 Statement by the Four Deuces </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Statement_by_the_Four_Deuces-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Discussion_among_uninvolved_editors_about_the_appeal_by_Toa_Nidhiki05" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-2"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Discussion_among_uninvolved_editors_about_the_appeal_by_Toa_Nidhiki05"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 10.11 Discussion among uninvolved editors about the appeal by Toa Nidhiki05 </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Discussion_among_uninvolved_editors_about_the_appeal_by_Toa_Nidhiki05-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Oversight_removed_revisions,_are_some_of_them_lost?" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Oversight_removed_revisions,_are_some_of_them_lost?"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 11 Oversight removed revisions, are some of them lost? </div> </a> 6 comments <ul id="toc-Oversight_removed_revisions,_are_some_of_them_lost?-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Consistently_disruptive_user" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Consistently_disruptive_user"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 12 Consistently disruptive user </div> </a> 3 comments <ul id="toc-Consistently_disruptive_user-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Page_protecting_WP:RA/BAE" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Page_protecting_WP:RA/BAE"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 13 Page protecting WP:RA/BAE </div> </a> 17 comments <ul id="toc-Page_protecting_WP:RA/BAE-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-CheckUser_consultations,_February_2025" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#CheckUser_consultations,_February_2025"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 14 CheckUser consultations, February 2025 </div> </a> 1 comment <ul id="toc-CheckUser_consultations,_February_2025-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Tamzin:_Appeal_of_voluntary_adminning_restriction" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Tamzin:_Appeal_of_voluntary_adminning_restriction"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 15 Tamzin: Appeal of voluntary adminning restriction </div> </a> 19 comments <ul id="toc-Tamzin:_Appeal_of_voluntary_adminning_restriction-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-RfC_closure_review_request_at_Talk:Kash_Patel#RfC:_Whether_to_call_Kash_Patel_a_conspiracy_theorist_in_the_first_sentence" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#RfC_closure_review_request_at_Talk:Kash_Patel#RfC:_Whether_to_call_Kash_Patel_a_conspiracy_theorist_in_the_first_sentence"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 16 RfC closure review request at Talk:Kash_Patel#RfC: Whether to call Kash Patel a conspiracy theorist in the first sentence </div> </a> 54 comments <button aria-controls="toc-RfC_closure_review_request_at_Talk:Kash_Patel#RfC:_Whether_to_call_Kash_Patel_a_conspiracy_theorist_in_the_first_sentence-sublist" class="cdx-button cdx-button--weight-quiet cdx-button--icon-only vector-toc-toggle"> Toggle RfC closure review request at Talk:Kash_Patel#RfC: Whether to call Kash Patel a conspiracy theorist in the first sentence subsection </button> <ul id="toc-RfC_closure_review_request_at_Talk:Kash_Patel#RfC:_Whether_to_call_Kash_Patel_a_conspiracy_theorist_in_the_first_sentence-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> <li id="toc-Closer_(Kash_Patel_RfC)" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-2"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Closer_(Kash_Patel_RfC)"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 16.1 Closer (Kash Patel RfC) </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Closer_(Kash_Patel_RfC)-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Non-participants_(Kash_Patel_RfC)" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-2"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Non-participants_(Kash_Patel_RfC)"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 16.2 Non-participants (Kash Patel RfC) </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Non-participants_(Kash_Patel_RfC)-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Participants_(Kash_Patel_RfC)" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-2"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Participants_(Kash_Patel_RfC)"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 16.3 Participants (Kash Patel RfC) </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Participants_(Kash_Patel_RfC)-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Discussion_(Kash_Patel_RfC)" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-2"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Discussion_(Kash_Patel_RfC)"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 16.4 Discussion (Kash Patel RfC) </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Discussion_(Kash_Patel_RfC)-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Something_fishy" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Something_fishy"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 17 Something fishy </div> </a> 5 comments <ul id="toc-Something_fishy-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Bureaucratic_waste_and_cleanup_of_contentious_topics" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Bureaucratic_waste_and_cleanup_of_contentious_topics"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 18 Bureaucratic waste and cleanup of contentious topics </div> </a> 9 comments <ul id="toc-Bureaucratic_waste_and_cleanup_of_contentious_topics-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Competent_(Legal)_issue_over_the_newer_replacement_of_Sikh_Empire_Map" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Competent_(Legal)_issue_over_the_newer_replacement_of_Sikh_Empire_Map"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 19 Competent (Legal) issue over the newer replacement of Sikh Empire Map </div> </a> 7 comments <ul id="toc-Competent_(Legal)_issue_over_the_newer_replacement_of_Sikh_Empire_Map-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Heritage_Foundation_plans_to_doxx_Wikipedia_editors_and_admins" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Heritage_Foundation_plans_to_doxx_Wikipedia_editors_and_admins"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 20 Heritage Foundation plans to doxx Wikipedia editors and admins </div> </a> 8 comments <ul id="toc-Heritage_Foundation_plans_to_doxx_Wikipedia_editors_and_admins-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Template_update" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Template_update"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 21 Template update </div> </a> 2 comments <ul id="toc-Template_update-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-RfC_closure_review_request_at_Wikipedia:Village_pump_(policy)#Guideline_against_use_of_AI_images_in_BLPs_and_medical_articles?" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#RfC_closure_review_request_at_Wikipedia:Village_pump_(policy)#Guideline_against_use_of_AI_images_in_BLPs_and_medical_articles?"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 22 RfC closure review request at Wikipedia:Village pump (policy)#Guideline against use of AI images in BLPs and medical articles? </div> </a> 14 comments <button aria-controls="toc-RfC_closure_review_request_at_Wikipedia:Village_pump_(policy)#Guideline_against_use_of_AI_images_in_BLPs_and_medical_articles?-sublist" class="cdx-button cdx-button--weight-quiet cdx-button--icon-only vector-toc-toggle"> Toggle RfC closure review request at Wikipedia:Village pump (policy)#Guideline against use of AI images in BLPs and medical articles? subsection </button> <ul id="toc-RfC_closure_review_request_at_Wikipedia:Village_pump_(policy)#Guideline_against_use_of_AI_images_in_BLPs_and_medical_articles?-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> <li id="toc-Closer_(AI_image_RfC)" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-2"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Closer_(AI_image_RfC)"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 22.1 Closer (AI image RfC) </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Closer_(AI_image_RfC)-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Non-participants_(AI_image_RfC)" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-2"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Non-participants_(AI_image_RfC)"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 22.2 Non-participants (AI image RfC) </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Non-participants_(AI_image_RfC)-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Participants_(AI_image_RfC)" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-2"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Participants_(AI_image_RfC)"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 22.3 Participants (AI image RfC) </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Participants_(AI_image_RfC)-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Discussion_(AI_image_RfC)" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-2"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Discussion_(AI_image_RfC)"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 22.4 Discussion (AI image RfC) </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Discussion_(AI_image_RfC)-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Creating_a_Geonotice" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Creating_a_Geonotice"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 23 Creating a Geonotice </div> </a> 4 comments <ul id="toc-Creating_a_Geonotice-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Mattia_Vlad_Morleo_page" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Mattia_Vlad_Morleo_page"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 24 Mattia Vlad Morleo page </div> </a> 3 comments <ul id="toc-Mattia_Vlad_Morleo_page-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Creation_of_page_Jack_Massey_Welsh" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Creation_of_page_Jack_Massey_Welsh"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 25 Creation of page Jack Massey Welsh </div> </a> 8 comments <ul id="toc-Creation_of_page_Jack_Massey_Welsh-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-User:_ZOMG_INCOMING" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#User:_ZOMG_INCOMING"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 26 User: ZOMG INCOMING </div> </a> 2 comments <ul id="toc-User:_ZOMG_INCOMING-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Request_to_unban_my_socks." class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Request_to_unban_my_socks."> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 27 Request to unban my socks. </div> </a> 19 comments <ul id="toc-Request_to_unban_my_socks.-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Caution_:_Paid_editing_in_place" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Caution_:_Paid_editing_in_place"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 28 Caution : Paid editing in place </div> </a> 9 comments <ul id="toc-Caution_:_Paid_editing_in_place-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Admin_Abusing_Power_For_Nepotism" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Admin_Abusing_Power_For_Nepotism"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 29 Admin Abusing Power For Nepotism </div> </a> 5 comments <ul id="toc-Admin_Abusing_Power_For_Nepotism-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Bit_of_a_backlog_at...." class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Bit_of_a_backlog_at...."> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 30 Bit of a backlog at.... </div> </a> 1 comment <ul id="toc-Bit_of_a_backlog_at....-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Improper_WP:NAC_at_FTN" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Improper_WP:NAC_at_FTN"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 31 Improper WP:NAC at FTN </div> </a> 11 comments <button aria-controls="toc-Improper_WP:NAC_at_FTN-sublist" class="cdx-button cdx-button--weight-quiet cdx-button--icon-only vector-toc-toggle"> Toggle Improper WP:NAC at FTN subsection </button> <ul id="toc-Improper_WP:NAC_at_FTN-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> <li id="toc-Involved" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-2"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Involved"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 31.1 Involved </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Involved-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Uninvolved" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-2"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Uninvolved"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 31.2 Uninvolved </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Uninvolved-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Appealing_my_I-ban" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Appealing_my_I-ban"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 32 Appealing my I-ban </div> </a> 16 comments <ul id="toc-Appealing_my_I-ban-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Is_SPI_overwhelmed?" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Is_SPI_overwhelmed?"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 33 Is SPI overwhelmed? </div> </a> 20 comments <ul id="toc-Is_SPI_overwhelmed?-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> </ul> </div> </div> </nav> </div> </div> <div class="mw-content-container"> <main id="content" class="mw-body"> <header class="mw-body-header vector-page-titlebar"> <nav aria-label="Contents" class="vector-toc-landmark"> <div id="vector-page-titlebar-toc" class="vector-dropdown vector-page-titlebar-toc vector-button-flush-left" title="Table of Contents" > <input type="checkbox" id="vector-page-titlebar-toc-checkbox" role="button" aria-haspopup="true" data-event-name="ui.dropdown-vector-page-titlebar-toc" class="vector-dropdown-checkbox " aria-label="Toggle the table of contents" > <label id="vector-page-titlebar-toc-label" for="vector-page-titlebar-toc-checkbox" class="vector-dropdown-label cdx-button cdx-button--fake-button cdx-button--fake-button--enabled cdx-button--weight-quiet cdx-button--icon-only " aria-hidden="true" > Toggle the table of contents </label> <div class="vector-dropdown-content"> <div id="vector-page-titlebar-toc-unpinned-container" class="vector-unpinned-container"> </div> </div> </div> </nav> <h1 id="firstHeading" class="firstHeading mw-first-heading">Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard</h1> <div id="p-lang-btn" class="vector-dropdown mw-portlet mw-portlet-lang" > <input type="checkbox" id="p-lang-btn-checkbox" role="button" aria-haspopup="true" data-event-name="ui.dropdown-p-lang-btn" class="vector-dropdown-checkbox mw-interlanguage-selector" aria-label="Go to an article in another language. Available in 81 languages" > <label id="p-lang-btn-label" for="p-lang-btn-checkbox" class="vector-dropdown-label cdx-button cdx-button--fake-button cdx-button--fake-button--enabled cdx-button--weight-quiet cdx-button--action-progressive mw-portlet-lang-heading-81" aria-hidden="true" > 81 languages </label> <div class="vector-dropdown-content"> <div class="vector-menu-content"> <ul class="vector-menu-content-list"> <li class="interlanguage-link interwiki-ar mw-list-item"><a href="https://ar.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D9%88%D9%8A%D9%83%D9%8A%D8%A8%D9%8A%D8%AF%D9%8A%D8%A7:%D8%A5%D8%AE%D8%B7%D8%A7%D8%B1_%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%A5%D8%AF%D8%A7%D8%B1%D9%8A%D9%8A%D9%86" title="ويكيبيديا:إخطار الإداريين – Arabic" lang="ar" hreflang="ar" data-title="ويكيبيديا:إخطار الإداريين" data-language-autonym="العربية" data-language-local-name="Arabic" class="interlanguage-link-target">العربية</a></li><li class="interlanguage-link interwiki-az mw-list-item"><a href="https://az.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vikipediya:%C4%B0nzibat%C3%A7%C4%B1lara_m%C3%BCraci%C9%99t" title="Vikipediya:İnzibatçılara müraciət – Azerbaijani" lang="az" hreflang="az" data-title="Vikipediya:İnzibatçılara müraciət" data-language-autonym="Azərbaycanca" data-language-local-name="Azerbaijani" class="interlanguage-link-target">Azərbaycanca</a></li><li class="interlanguage-link interwiki-azb mw-list-item"><a href="https://azb.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D9%88%DB%8C%DA%A9%DB%8C%E2%80%8C%D9%BE%D8%AF%DB%8C%D8%A7:%D8%A7%DB%8C%D8%AF%D8%A7%D8%B1%D9%87%E2%80%8C%DA%86%DB%8C%D9%84%D8%B1_%D8%A8%DB%8C%D9%84%D8%AF%DB%8C%D8%B1%DB%8C_%D8%AA%D8%A7%D8%A8%D9%84%D9%88%D8%B3%D9%88" title="ویکی‌پدیا:ایداره‌چیلر بیلدیری تابلوسو – South Azerbaijani" lang="azb" hreflang="azb" data-title="ویکی‌پدیا:ایداره‌چیلر بیلدیری تابلوسو" data-language-autonym="تۆرکجه" data-language-local-name="South Azerbaijani" class="interlanguage-link-target">تۆرکجه</a></li><li class="interlanguage-link interwiki-bn mw-list-item"><a href="https://bn.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E0%A6%89%E0%A6%87%E0%A6%95%E0%A6%BF%E0%A6%AA%E0%A6%BF%E0%A6%A1%E0%A6%BF%E0%A6%AF%E0%A6%BC%E0%A6%BE:%E0%A6%AA%E0%A7%8D%E0%A6%B0%E0%A6%B6%E0%A6%BE%E0%A6%B8%E0%A6%95%E0%A6%A6%E0%A7%87%E0%A6%B0_%E0%A6%86%E0%A6%B2%E0%A7%8B%E0%A6%9A%E0%A6%A8%E0%A6%BE%E0%A6%B8%E0%A6%AD%E0%A6%BE" title="উইকিপিডিয়া:প্রশাসকদের আলোচনাসভা – Bangla" lang="bn" hreflang="bn" data-title="উইকিপিডিয়া:প্রশাসকদের আলোচনাসভা" data-language-autonym="বাংলা" data-language-local-name="Bangla" class="interlanguage-link-target">বাংলা</a></li><li class="interlanguage-link interwiki-bjn mw-list-item"><a href="https://bjn.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipidia:PPP" title="Wikipidia:PPP – Banjar" lang="bjn" hreflang="bjn" data-title="Wikipidia:PPP" data-language-autonym="Banjar" data-language-local-name="Banjar" class="interlanguage-link-target">Banjar</a></li><li class="interlanguage-link interwiki-bh mw-list-item"><a href="https://bh.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E0%A4%B5%E0%A4%BF%E0%A4%95%E0%A4%BF%E0%A4%AA%E0%A5%80%E0%A4%A1%E0%A4%BF%E0%A4%AF%E0%A4%BE:%E0%A4%AA%E0%A5%8D%E0%A4%B0%E0%A4%AC%E0%A4%82%E0%A4%A7%E0%A4%95_%E0%A4%B8%E0%A5%82%E0%A4%9A%E0%A4%A8%E0%A4%BE%E0%A4%AA%E0%A4%9F" title="विकिपीडिया:प्रबंधक सूचनापट – Bhojpuri" lang="bh" hreflang="bh" data-title="विकिपीडिया:प्रबंधक सूचनापट" data-language-autonym="भोजपुरी" data-language-local-name="Bhojpuri" class="interlanguage-link-target">भोजपुरी</a></li><li class="interlanguage-link interwiki-br mw-list-item"><a href="https://br.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Goulenn_ouzh_ar_verourien" title="Wikipedia:Goulenn ouzh ar verourien – Breton" lang="br" hreflang="br" data-title="Wikipedia:Goulenn ouzh ar verourien" data-language-autonym="Brezhoneg" data-language-local-name="Breton" class="interlanguage-link-target">Brezhoneg</a></li><li class="interlanguage-link interwiki-ca mw-list-item"><a href="https://ca.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viquip%C3%A8dia:Sala_dels_administradors" title="Viquipèdia:Sala dels administradors – Catalan" lang="ca" hreflang="ca" data-title="Viquipèdia:Sala dels administradors" data-language-autonym="Català" data-language-local-name="Catalan" class="interlanguage-link-target">Català</a></li><li class="interlanguage-link interwiki-cs mw-list-item"><a href="https://cs.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedie:N%C3%A1st%C4%9Bnka_spr%C3%A1vc%C5%AF" title="Wikipedie:Nástěnka správců – Czech" lang="cs" hreflang="cs" data-title="Wikipedie:Nástěnka správců" data-language-autonym="Čeština" data-language-local-name="Czech" class="interlanguage-link-target">Čeština</a></li><li class="interlanguage-link interwiki-cy mw-list-item"><a href="https://cy.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wicipedia:Negesfwrdd_gweinyddiaeth" title="Wicipedia:Negesfwrdd gweinyddiaeth – Welsh" lang="cy" hreflang="cy" data-title="Wicipedia:Negesfwrdd gweinyddiaeth" data-language-autonym="Cymraeg" data-language-local-name="Welsh" class="interlanguage-link-target">Cymraeg</a></li><li class="interlanguage-link interwiki-pdc mw-list-item"><a href="https://pdc.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrator_Requests" title="Wikipedia:Administrator Requests – Pennsylvania German" lang="pdc" hreflang="pdc" data-title="Wikipedia:Administrator Requests" data-language-autonym="Deitsch" data-language-local-name="Pennsylvania German" class="interlanguage-link-target">Deitsch</a></li><li class="interlanguage-link interwiki-de mw-list-item"><a href="https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administratoren/Notizen" title="Wikipedia:Administratoren/Notizen – German" lang="de" hreflang="de" data-title="Wikipedia:Administratoren/Notizen" data-language-autonym="Deutsch" data-language-local-name="German" class="interlanguage-link-target">Deutsch</a></li><li class="interlanguage-link interwiki-el mw-list-item"><a href="https://el.wikipedia.org/wiki/%CE%92%CE%B9%CE%BA%CE%B9%CF%80%CE%B1%CE%AF%CE%B4%CE%B5%CE%B9%CE%B1:%CE%A3%CE%B7%CE%BC%CE%B5%CE%B9%CF%89%CE%BC%CE%B1%CF%84%CE%AC%CF%81%CE%B9%CE%BF_%CE%B4%CE%B9%CE%B1%CF%87%CE%B5%CE%B9%CF%81%CE%B9%CF%83%CF%84%CF%8E%CE%BD" title="Βικιπαίδεια:Σημειωματάριο διαχειριστών – Greek" lang="el" hreflang="el" data-title="Βικιπαίδεια:Σημειωματάριο διαχειριστών" data-language-autonym="Ελληνικά" data-language-local-name="Greek" class="interlanguage-link-target">Ελληνικά</a></li><li class="interlanguage-link interwiki-es mw-list-item"><a href="https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Tabl%C3%B3n_de_anuncios_de_los_bibliotecarios/Portal/Archivo/Miscel%C3%A1nea/Actual" title="Wikipedia:Tablón de anuncios de los bibliotecarios/Portal/Archivo/Miscelánea/Actual – Spanish" lang="es" hreflang="es" data-title="Wikipedia:Tablón de anuncios de los bibliotecarios/Portal/Archivo/Miscelánea/Actual" data-language-autonym="Español" data-language-local-name="Spanish" class="interlanguage-link-target">Español</a></li><li class="interlanguage-link interwiki-eo mw-list-item"><a href="https://eo.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vikipedio:Diskutejo/Administrejo" title="Vikipedio:Diskutejo/Administrejo – Esperanto" lang="eo" hreflang="eo" data-title="Vikipedio:Diskutejo/Administrejo" data-language-autonym="Esperanto" data-language-local-name="Esperanto" class="interlanguage-link-target">Esperanto</a></li><li class="interlanguage-link interwiki-fa mw-list-item"><a href="https://fa.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D9%88%DB%8C%DA%A9%DB%8C%E2%80%8C%D9%BE%D8%AF%DB%8C%D8%A7:%D8%AA%D8%A7%D8%A8%D9%84%D9%88%DB%8C_%D8%A7%D8%B9%D9%84%D8%A7%D9%86%D8%A7%D8%AA_%D9%85%D8%AF%DB%8C%D8%B1%D8%A7%D9%86" title="ویکی‌پدیا:تابلوی اعلانات مدیران – Persian" lang="fa" hreflang="fa" data-title="ویکی‌پدیا:تابلوی اعلانات مدیران" data-language-autonym="فارسی" data-language-local-name="Persian" class="interlanguage-link-target">فارسی</a></li><li class="interlanguage-link interwiki-fr mw-list-item"><a href="https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikip%C3%A9dia:Bulletin_des_administrateurs" title="Wikipédia:Bulletin des administrateurs – French" lang="fr" hreflang="fr" data-title="Wikipédia:Bulletin des administrateurs" data-language-autonym="Français" data-language-local-name="French" class="interlanguage-link-target">Français</a></li><li class="interlanguage-link interwiki-gl mw-list-item"><a href="https://gl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Taboleiro_dos_administradores" title="Wikipedia:Taboleiro dos administradores – Galician" lang="gl" hreflang="gl" data-title="Wikipedia:Taboleiro dos administradores" data-language-autonym="Galego" data-language-local-name="Galician" class="interlanguage-link-target">Galego</a></li><li class="interlanguage-link interwiki-gu mw-list-item"><a href="https://gu.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E0%AA%B5%E0%AA%BF%E0%AA%95%E0%AA%BF%E0%AA%AA%E0%AB%80%E0%AA%A1%E0%AA%BF%E0%AA%AF%E0%AA%BE:%E0%AA%AA%E0%AB%8D%E0%AA%B0%E0%AA%AC%E0%AA%82%E0%AA%A7%E0%AA%95%E0%AB%8B%E0%AA%A8%E0%AB%81%E0%AA%82_%E0%AA%B8%E0%AB%82%E0%AA%9A%E0%AA%A8%E0%AA%AA%E0%AA%9F" title="વિકિપીડિયા:પ્રબંધકોનું સૂચનપટ – Gujarati" lang="gu" hreflang="gu" data-title="વિકિપીડિયા:પ્રબંધકોનું સૂચનપટ" data-language-autonym="ગુજરાતી" data-language-local-name="Gujarati" class="interlanguage-link-target">ગુજરાતી</a></li><li class="interlanguage-link interwiki-ko mw-list-item"><a href="https://ko.wikipedia.org/wiki/%EC%9C%84%ED%82%A4%EB%B0%B1%EA%B3%BC:%EA%B4%80%EB%A6%AC%EC%9E%90_%EC%95%8C%EB%A6%BC%ED%8C%90" title="위키백과:관리자 알림판 – Korean" lang="ko" hreflang="ko" data-title="위키백과:관리자 알림판" data-language-autonym="한국어" data-language-local-name="Korean" class="interlanguage-link-target">한국어</a></li><li class="interlanguage-link interwiki-hy mw-list-item"><a href="https://hy.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D5%8E%D5%AB%D6%84%D5%AB%D5%BA%D5%A5%D5%A4%D5%AB%D5%A1:%D4%B1%D5%A4%D5%B4%D5%AB%D5%B6%D5%AB%D5%BD%D5%BF%D6%80%D5%A1%D5%BF%D5%B8%D6%80%D5%B6%D5%A5%D6%80%D5%AB_%D5%BF%D5%A5%D5%B2%D5%A5%D5%AF%D5%A1%D5%BF%D5%A1%D5%AD%D5%BF%D5%A1%D5%AF" title="Վիքիպեդիա:Ադմինիստրատորների տեղեկատախտակ – Armenian" lang="hy" hreflang="hy" data-title="Վիքիպեդիա:Ադմինիստրատորների տեղեկատախտակ" data-language-autonym="Հայերեն" data-language-local-name="Armenian" class="interlanguage-link-target">Հայերեն</a></li><li class="interlanguage-link interwiki-hi mw-list-item"><a href="https://hi.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E0%A4%B5%E0%A4%BF%E0%A4%95%E0%A4%BF%E0%A4%AA%E0%A5%80%E0%A4%A1%E0%A4%BF%E0%A4%AF%E0%A4%BE:%E0%A4%AA%E0%A5%8D%E0%A4%B0%E0%A4%AC%E0%A4%A8%E0%A5%8D%E0%A4%A7%E0%A4%95_%E0%A4%B8%E0%A5%82%E0%A4%9A%E0%A4%A8%E0%A4%BE%E0%A4%AA%E0%A4%9F" title="विकिपीडिया:प्रबन्धक सूचनापट – Hindi" lang="hi" hreflang="hi" data-title="विकिपीडिया:प्रबन्धक सूचनापट" data-language-autonym="हिन्दी" data-language-local-name="Hindi" class="interlanguage-link-target">हिन्दी</a></li><li class="interlanguage-link interwiki-hr mw-list-item"><a href="https://hr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedija:Na_pa%C5%BEnju_administratorima" title="Wikipedija:Na pažnju administratorima – Croatian" lang="hr" hreflang="hr" data-title="Wikipedija:Na pažnju administratorima" data-language-autonym="Hrvatski" data-language-local-name="Croatian" class="interlanguage-link-target">Hrvatski</a></li><li class="interlanguage-link interwiki-bpy mw-list-item"><a href="https://bpy.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E0%A6%89%E0%A6%87%E0%A6%95%E0%A6%BF%E0%A6%AA%E0%A6%BF%E0%A6%A1%E0%A6%BF%E0%A6%AF%E0%A6%BC%E0%A6%BE:%E0%A6%AA%E0%A7%8D%E0%A6%B0%E0%A6%B6%E0%A6%BE%E0%A6%B8%E0%A6%95%E0%A6%A6%E0%A7%87%E0%A6%B0_%E0%A6%86%E0%A6%B2%E0%A7%8B%E0%A6%9A%E0%A6%A8%E0%A6%BE%E0%A6%B8%E0%A6%AD%E0%A6%BE" title="উইকিপিডিয়া:প্রশাসকদের আলোচনাসভা – Bishnupriya" lang="bpy" hreflang="bpy" data-title="উইকিপিডিয়া:প্রশাসকদের আলোচনাসভা" data-language-autonym="বিষ্ণুপ্রিয়া মণিপুরী" data-language-local-name="Bishnupriya" class="interlanguage-link-target">বিষ্ণুপ্রিয়া মণিপুরী</a></li><li class="interlanguage-link interwiki-id mw-list-item"><a href="https://id.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Permintaan_perhatian_pengurus" title="Wikipedia:Permintaan perhatian pengurus – Indonesian" lang="id" hreflang="id" data-title="Wikipedia:Permintaan perhatian pengurus" data-language-autonym="Bahasa Indonesia" data-language-local-name="Indonesian" class="interlanguage-link-target">Bahasa Indonesia</a></li><li class="interlanguage-link interwiki-he badge-Q70894304 mw-list-item" title=""><a href="https://he.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D7%95%D7%99%D7%A7%D7%99%D7%A4%D7%93%D7%99%D7%94:AN" title="ויקיפדיה:AN – Hebrew" lang="he" hreflang="he" data-title="ויקיפדיה:AN" data-language-autonym="עברית" data-language-local-name="Hebrew" class="interlanguage-link-target">עברית</a></li><li class="interlanguage-link interwiki-jv mw-list-item"><a href="https://jv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikip%C3%A9dia:Panyuwunan_kawigat%C3%A8n_panata" title="Wikipédia:Panyuwunan kawigatèn panata – Javanese" lang="jv" hreflang="jv" data-title="Wikipédia:Panyuwunan kawigatèn panata" data-language-autonym="Jawa" data-language-local-name="Javanese" class="interlanguage-link-target">Jawa</a></li><li class="interlanguage-link interwiki-ks mw-list-item"><a href="https://ks.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D9%88%D9%90%DA%A9%DB%8C%D9%96%D9%BE%DB%8C%D9%96%DA%88%DB%8C%D8%A7:%D8%A7%D9%90%D9%86%D8%AA%D9%90%D8%B8%D9%B2%D9%85%D8%A0_%D8%A7%D9%90%D8%B7%D9%84%D8%A7%D8%B9_%D8%A7%D9%8E%D9%86%D8%AC%D9%8F%D9%85%D9%8E%D9%86" title="وِکیٖپیٖڈیا:اِنتِظٲمؠ اِطلاع اَنجُمَن – Kashmiri" lang="ks" hreflang="ks" data-title="وِکیٖپیٖڈیا:اِنتِظٲمؠ اِطلاع اَنجُمَن" data-language-autonym="कॉशुर / کٲشُر" data-language-local-name="Kashmiri" class="interlanguage-link-target">कॉशुर / کٲشُر</a></li><li class="interlanguage-link interwiki-kk mw-list-item"><a href="https://kk.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%A3%D0%B8%D0%BA%D0%B8%D0%BF%D0%B5%D0%B4%D0%B8%D1%8F:%D0%A4%D0%BE%D1%80%D1%83%D0%BC/%D0%90%D0%B4%D0%BC%D0%B8%D0%BD%D0%B8%D1%81%D1%82%D1%80%D0%B0%D1%82%D0%BE%D1%80%D0%BB%D0%B0%D1%80_%D1%84%D0%BE%D1%80%D1%83%D0%BC%D1%8B" title="Уикипедия:Форум/Администраторлар форумы – Kazakh" lang="kk" hreflang="kk" data-title="Уикипедия:Форум/Администраторлар форумы" data-language-autonym="Қазақша" data-language-local-name="Kazakh" class="interlanguage-link-target">Қазақша</a></li><li class="interlanguage-link interwiki-lo mw-list-item"><a href="https://lo.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E0%BA%A7%E0%BA%B4%E0%BA%81%E0%BA%B4%E0%BA%9E%E0%BA%B5%E0%BB%80%E0%BA%94%E0%BA%8D:%E0%BB%81%E0%BA%88%E0%BB%89%E0%BA%87%E0%BA%9C%E0%BA%B9%E0%BB%89%E0%BA%94%E0%BA%B9%E0%BB%81%E0%BA%A5%E0%BA%A5%E0%BA%B0%E0%BA%9A%E0%BA%BB%E0%BA%9A" title="ວິກິພີເດຍ:ແຈ້ງຜູ້ດູແລລະບົບ – Lao" lang="lo" hreflang="lo" data-title="ວິກິພີເດຍ:ແຈ້ງຜູ້ດູແລລະບົບ" data-language-autonym="ລາວ" data-language-local-name="Lao" class="interlanguage-link-target">ລາວ</a></li><li class="interlanguage-link interwiki-lv mw-list-item"><a href="https://lv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vikip%C4%93dija:Administratoru_zi%C5%86ojumu_d%C4%93lis" title="Vikipēdija:Administratoru ziņojumu dēlis – Latvian" lang="lv" hreflang="lv" data-title="Vikipēdija:Administratoru ziņojumu dēlis" data-language-autonym="Latviešu" data-language-local-name="Latvian" class="interlanguage-link-target">Latviešu</a></li><li class="interlanguage-link interwiki-hu mw-list-item"><a href="https://hu.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikip%C3%A9dia:Adminisztr%C3%A1torok_%C3%BCzen%C5%91fala" title="Wikipédia:Adminisztrátorok üzenőfala – Hungarian" lang="hu" hreflang="hu" data-title="Wikipédia:Adminisztrátorok üzenőfala" data-language-autonym="Magyar" data-language-local-name="Hungarian" class="interlanguage-link-target">Magyar</a></li><li class="interlanguage-link interwiki-mai mw-list-item"><a href="https://mai.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E0%A4%B5%E0%A4%BF%E0%A4%95%E0%A4%BF%E0%A4%AA%E0%A4%BF%E0%A4%A1%E0%A4%BF%E0%A4%AF%E0%A4%BE:%E0%A4%AA%E0%A5%8D%E0%A4%B0%E0%A4%AC%E0%A4%A8%E0%A5%8D%E0%A4%A7%E0%A4%95_%E0%A4%B8%E0%A5%82%E0%A4%9A%E0%A4%A8%E0%A4%BE%E0%A4%AA%E0%A4%9F%E0%A5%8D%E0%A4%9F" title="विकिपिडिया:प्रबन्धक सूचनापट्ट – Maithili" lang="mai" hreflang="mai" data-title="विकिपिडिया:प्रबन्धक सूचनापट्ट" data-language-autonym="मैथिली" data-language-local-name="Maithili" class="interlanguage-link-target">मैथिली</a></li><li class="interlanguage-link interwiki-mk mw-list-item"><a href="https://mk.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%92%D0%B8%D0%BA%D0%B8%D0%BF%D0%B5%D0%B4%D0%B8%D1%98%D0%B0:%D0%9E%D0%B3%D0%BB%D0%B0%D1%81%D0%BD%D0%B0_%D1%82%D0%B0%D0%B1%D0%BB%D0%B0_%D0%B7%D0%B0_%D0%B0%D0%B4%D0%BC%D0%B8%D0%BD%D0%B8%D1%81%D1%82%D1%80%D0%B0%D1%82%D0%BE%D1%80%D0%B8" title="Википедија:Огласна табла за администратори – Macedonian" lang="mk" hreflang="mk" data-title="Википедија:Огласна табла за администратори" data-language-autonym="Македонски" data-language-local-name="Macedonian" class="interlanguage-link-target">Македонски</a></li><li class="interlanguage-link interwiki-ml mw-list-item"><a href="https://ml.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E0%B4%B5%E0%B4%BF%E0%B4%95%E0%B5%8D%E0%B4%95%E0%B4%BF%E0%B4%AA%E0%B5%80%E0%B4%A1%E0%B4%BF%E0%B4%AF:%E0%B4%95%E0%B4%BE%E0%B4%B0%E0%B5%8D%E0%B4%AF%E0%B4%A8%E0%B4%BF%E0%B5%BC%E0%B4%B5%E0%B4%BE%E0%B4%B9%E0%B4%95%E0%B5%BC%E0%B4%95%E0%B5%8D%E0%B4%95%E0%B5%81%E0%B4%B3%E0%B5%8D%E0%B4%B3_%E0%B4%A8%E0%B5%8B%E0%B4%9F%E0%B5%8D%E0%B4%9F%E0%B5%80%E0%B4%B8%E0%B5%8D_%E0%B4%AC%E0%B5%8B%E0%B5%BC%E0%B4%A1%E0%B5%8D" title="വിക്കിപീഡിയ:കാര്യനിർവാഹകർക്കുള്ള നോട്ടീസ് ബോർഡ് – Malayalam" lang="ml" hreflang="ml" data-title="വിക്കിപീഡിയ:കാര്യനിർവാഹകർക്കുള്ള നോട്ടീസ് ബോർഡ്" data-language-autonym="മലയാളം" data-language-local-name="Malayalam" class="interlanguage-link-target">മലയാളം</a></li><li class="interlanguage-link interwiki-mr mw-list-item"><a href="https://mr.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E0%A4%B5%E0%A4%BF%E0%A4%95%E0%A4%BF%E0%A4%AA%E0%A5%80%E0%A4%A1%E0%A4%BF%E0%A4%AF%E0%A4%BE:%E0%A4%9A%E0%A4%BE%E0%A4%B5%E0%A4%A1%E0%A5%80/%E0%A4%AA%E0%A5%8D%E0%A4%B0%E0%A4%9A%E0%A4%BE%E0%A4%B2%E0%A4%95%E0%A4%BE%E0%A4%82%E0%A4%A8%E0%A4%BE_%E0%A4%A8%E0%A4%BF%E0%A4%B5%E0%A5%87%E0%A4%A6%E0%A4%A8" title="विकिपीडिया:चावडी/प्रचालकांना निवेदन – Marathi" lang="mr" hreflang="mr" data-title="विकिपीडिया:चावडी/प्रचालकांना निवेदन" data-language-autonym="मराठी" data-language-local-name="Marathi" class="interlanguage-link-target">मराठी</a></li><li class="interlanguage-link interwiki-arz mw-list-item"><a href="https://arz.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D9%88%D9%8A%D9%83%D9%8A%D8%A8%D9%8A%D8%AF%D9%8A%D8%A7:%D8%A7%D8%AF%D8%A7%D8%B1%D9%8A%D9%8A%D9%86/%D8%AA%D8%B5%D8%B1%D9%81_%D8%B6%D8%AF_%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%AA%D8%AE%D8%B1%D9%8A%D8%A8" title="ويكيبيديا:اداريين/تصرف ضد التخريب – Egyptian Arabic" lang="arz" hreflang="arz" data-title="ويكيبيديا:اداريين/تصرف ضد التخريب" data-language-autonym="مصرى" data-language-local-name="Egyptian Arabic" class="interlanguage-link-target">مصرى</a></li><li class="interlanguage-link interwiki-mzn mw-list-item"><a href="https://mzn.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D9%88%DB%8C%DA%A9%DB%8C%E2%80%8C%D9%BE%D8%AF%DB%8C%D8%A7:%D9%85%D8%AF%DB%8C%D8%B1%D9%88%D9%86_%D8%A7%D8%B9%D9%84%D8%A7%D9%86%D8%A7%D8%AA_%D8%AA%D8%A7%D8%A8%D9%84%D9%88" title="ویکی‌پدیا:مدیرون اعلانات تابلو – Mazanderani" lang="mzn" hreflang="mzn" data-title="ویکی‌پدیا:مدیرون اعلانات تابلو" data-language-autonym="مازِرونی" data-language-local-name="Mazanderani" class="interlanguage-link-target">مازِرونی</a></li><li class="interlanguage-link interwiki-ms mw-list-item"><a href="https://ms.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Penyelia/Papan_kenyataan" title="Wikipedia:Penyelia/Papan kenyataan – Malay" lang="ms" hreflang="ms" data-title="Wikipedia:Penyelia/Papan kenyataan" data-language-autonym="Bahasa Melayu" data-language-local-name="Malay" class="interlanguage-link-target">Bahasa Melayu</a></li><li class="interlanguage-link interwiki-mwl mw-list-item"><a href="https://mwl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biquip%C3%A9dia:Pedidos_als_admenistradores" title="Biquipédia:Pedidos als admenistradores – Mirandese" lang="mwl" hreflang="mwl" data-title="Biquipédia:Pedidos als admenistradores" data-language-autonym="Mirandés" data-language-local-name="Mirandese" class="interlanguage-link-target">Mirandés</a></li><li class="interlanguage-link interwiki-my mw-list-item"><a href="https://my.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E1%80%9D%E1%80%AE%E1%80%80%E1%80%AE%E1%80%95%E1%80%AE%E1%80%B8%E1%80%92%E1%80%AE%E1%80%B8%E1%80%9A%E1%80%AC%E1%80%B8:%E1%80%85%E1%80%AE%E1%80%99%E1%80%B6%E1%80%81%E1%80%94%E1%80%B7%E1%80%BA%E1%80%81%E1%80%BD%E1%80%B2%E1%80%9E%E1%80%B0%E1%80%99%E1%80%BB%E1%80%AC%E1%80%B8_%E1%80%9E%E1%80%84%E1%80%BA%E1%80%95%E1%80%AF%E1%80%94%E1%80%BA%E1%80%B8" title="ဝီကီပီးဒီးယား:စီမံခန့်ခွဲသူများ သင်ပုန်း – Burmese" lang="my" hreflang="my" data-title="ဝီကီပီးဒီးယား:စီမံခန့်ခွဲသူများ သင်ပုန်း" data-language-autonym="မြန်မာဘာသာ" data-language-local-name="Burmese" class="interlanguage-link-target">မြန်မာဘာသာ</a></li><li class="interlanguage-link interwiki-ja mw-list-item"><a href="https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:%E7%AE%A1%E7%90%86%E8%80%85%E4%BC%9D%E8%A8%80%E6%9D%BF" title="Wikipedia:管理者伝言板 – Japanese" lang="ja" hreflang="ja" data-title="Wikipedia:管理者伝言板" data-language-autonym="日本語" data-language-local-name="Japanese" class="interlanguage-link-target">日本語</a></li><li class="interlanguage-link interwiki-ce mw-list-item"><a href="https://ce.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%92%D0%B8%D0%BA%D0%B8%D0%BF%D0%B5%D0%B4%D0%B8:%D0%90%D0%B4%D0%BC%D0%B8%D0%BD%D0%B8%D1%81%D1%82%D1%80%D0%B0%D1%82%D0%BE%D1%80%D0%B8%D0%B9%D0%BD_%D1%84%D0%BE%D1%80%D1%83%D0%BC" title="Википеди:Администраторийн форум – Chechen" lang="ce" hreflang="ce" data-title="Википеди:Администраторийн форум" data-language-autonym="Нохчийн" data-language-local-name="Chechen" class="interlanguage-link-target">Нохчийн</a></li><li class="interlanguage-link interwiki-no mw-list-item"><a href="https://no.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administratorenes_oppslagstavle" title="Wikipedia:Administratorenes oppslagstavle – Norwegian Bokmål" lang="nb" hreflang="nb" data-title="Wikipedia:Administratorenes oppslagstavle" data-language-autonym="Norsk bokmål" data-language-local-name="Norwegian Bokmål" class="interlanguage-link-target">Norsk bokmål</a></li><li class="interlanguage-link interwiki-nn mw-list-item"><a href="https://nn.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Vaktmeistertenester" title="Wikipedia:Vaktmeistertenester – Norwegian Nynorsk" lang="nn" hreflang="nn" data-title="Wikipedia:Vaktmeistertenester" data-language-autonym="Norsk nynorsk" data-language-local-name="Norwegian Nynorsk" class="interlanguage-link-target">Norsk nynorsk</a></li><li class="interlanguage-link interwiki-oc mw-list-item"><a href="https://oc.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikip%C3%A8dia:Coordinacion_dels_admins" title="Wikipèdia:Coordinacion dels admins – Occitan" lang="oc" hreflang="oc" data-title="Wikipèdia:Coordinacion dels admins" data-language-autonym="Occitan" data-language-local-name="Occitan" class="interlanguage-link-target">Occitan</a></li><li class="interlanguage-link interwiki-mhr mw-list-item"><a href="https://mhr.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%92%D0%B8%D0%BA%D0%B8%D0%BF%D0%B5%D0%B4%D0%B8%D0%B9:%D0%92%D0%B8%D0%BA%D1%82%D0%B0%D1%80%D1%8B%D1%88%D0%B5_%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BA%D0%B5_%D0%B9%D0%BE%D0%B4%D1%8B%D1%88" title="Википедий:Виктарыше деке йодыш – Eastern Mari" lang="mhr" hreflang="mhr" data-title="Википедий:Виктарыше деке йодыш" data-language-autonym="Олык марий" data-language-local-name="Eastern Mari" class="interlanguage-link-target">Олык марий</a></li><li class="interlanguage-link interwiki-uz mw-list-item"><a href="https://uz.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vikipediya:Administratorlar_forumi" title="Vikipediya:Administratorlar forumi – Uzbek" lang="uz" hreflang="uz" data-title="Vikipediya:Administratorlar forumi" data-language-autonym="Oʻzbekcha / ўзбекча" data-language-local-name="Uzbek" class="interlanguage-link-target">Oʻzbekcha / ўзбекча</a></li><li class="interlanguage-link interwiki-ps mw-list-item"><a href="https://ps.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D9%88%D9%8A%DA%A9%D9%8A%D9%BE%DB%90%DA%89%D9%8A%D8%A7:%D8%AF_%D9%BE%D8%A7%D8%B2%D9%88%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%A7%D9%86%D9%88_%D8%AF_%D8%A7%D8%B9%D9%84%D8%A7%D9%86%D8%A7%D8%AA%D9%88_%D8%AA%D8%AE%D8%AA%D9%87" title="ويکيپېډيا:د پازوالانو د اعلاناتو تخته – Pashto" lang="ps" hreflang="ps" data-title="ويکيپېډيا:د پازوالانو د اعلاناتو تخته" data-language-autonym="پښتو" data-language-local-name="Pashto" class="interlanguage-link-target">پښتو</a></li><li class="interlanguage-link interwiki-km mw-list-item"><a href="https://km.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E1%9E%9C%E1%9E%B7%E1%9E%82%E1%9E%B8%E1%9E%97%E1%9E%B8%E1%9E%8C%E1%9E%B6:%E1%9E%87%E1%9E%BC%E1%9E%93%E1%9E%8A%E1%9F%86%E1%9E%8E%E1%9E%B9%E1%9E%84%E1%9E%8A%E1%9E%9B%E1%9F%8B%E1%9E%A2%E1%9F%92%E1%9E%93%E1%9E%80%E1%9E%A2%E1%9E%97%E1%9E%B7%E1%9E%94%E1%9E%B6%E1%9E%9B" title="វិគីភីឌា:ជូនដំណឹងដល់អ្នកអភិបាល – Khmer" lang="km" hreflang="km" data-title="វិគីភីឌា:ជូនដំណឹងដល់អ្នកអភិបាល" data-language-autonym="ភាសាខ្មែរ" data-language-local-name="Khmer" class="interlanguage-link-target">ភាសាខ្មែរ</a></li><li class="interlanguage-link interwiki-pt mw-list-item"><a href="https://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikip%C3%A9dia:Pedidos/Outros" title="Wikipédia:Pedidos/Outros – Portuguese" lang="pt" hreflang="pt" data-title="Wikipédia:Pedidos/Outros" data-language-autonym="Português" data-language-local-name="Portuguese" class="interlanguage-link-target">Português</a></li><li class="interlanguage-link interwiki-ro mw-list-item"><a href="https://ro.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Afi%C8%99ierul_administratorilor" title="Wikipedia:Afișierul administratorilor – Romanian" lang="ro" hreflang="ro" data-title="Wikipedia:Afișierul administratorilor" data-language-autonym="Română" data-language-local-name="Romanian" class="interlanguage-link-target">Română</a></li><li class="interlanguage-link interwiki-ru mw-list-item"><a href="https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%92%D0%B8%D0%BA%D0%B8%D0%BF%D0%B5%D0%B4%D0%B8%D1%8F:%D0%A4%D0%BE%D1%80%D1%83%D0%BC_%D0%B0%D0%B4%D0%BC%D0%B8%D0%BD%D0%B8%D1%81%D1%82%D1%80%D0%B0%D1%82%D0%BE%D1%80%D0%BE%D0%B2" title="Википедия:Форум администраторов – Russian" lang="ru" hreflang="ru" data-title="Википедия:Форум администраторов" data-language-autonym="Русский" data-language-local-name="Russian" class="interlanguage-link-target">Русский</a></li><li class="interlanguage-link interwiki-sah mw-list-item"><a href="https://sah.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%91%D0%B8%D0%BA%D0%B8%D0%BF%D0%B8%D1%8D%D0%B4%D1%8C%D0%B8%D0%B9%D1%8D:%D0%94%D1%8C%D0%B0%D2%BB%D0%B0%D0%B1%D1%8B%D0%BB%D0%BB%D0%B0%D1%80%D0%B3%D0%B0_%D0%BA%D3%A9%D1%80%D0%B4%D3%A9%D0%B1%D2%AF%D0%BB%D0%BB%D1%8D%D1%80" title="Бикипиэдьийэ:Дьаһабылларга көрдөбүллэр – Yakut" lang="sah" hreflang="sah" data-title="Бикипиэдьийэ:Дьаһабылларга көрдөбүллэр" data-language-autonym="Саха тыла" data-language-local-name="Yakut" class="interlanguage-link-target">Саха тыла</a></li><li class="interlanguage-link interwiki-sa mw-list-item"><a href="https://sa.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E0%A4%B5%E0%A4%BF%E0%A4%95%E0%A4%BF%E0%A4%AA%E0%A5%80%E0%A4%A1%E0%A4%BF%E0%A4%AF%E0%A4%BE:%E0%A4%AA%E0%A5%8D%E0%A4%B0%E0%A4%AC%E0%A4%A8%E0%A5%8D%E0%A4%A7%E0%A4%95%E0%A4%B8%E0%A5%82%E0%A4%9A%E0%A4%A8%E0%A4%BE%E0%A4%AA%E0%A4%9F%E0%A4%83" title="विकिपीडिया:प्रबन्धकसूचनापटः – Sanskrit" lang="sa" hreflang="sa" data-title="विकिपीडिया:प्रबन्धकसूचनापटः" data-language-autonym="संस्कृतम्" data-language-local-name="Sanskrit" class="interlanguage-link-target">संस्कृतम्</a></li><li class="interlanguage-link interwiki-skr mw-list-item"><a href="https://skr.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D9%88%DA%A9%DB%8C%D9%BE%DB%8C%DA%88%DB%8C%D8%A7:%D8%A7%DB%8C%DA%88%D9%85%D9%86%D8%B3%D9%B9%D8%B1%DB%8C%D9%B9%D8%B1_%D9%86%D9%88%D9%B9%D8%B3_%D8%A8%D9%88%D8%B1%DA%88" title="وکیپیڈیا:ایڈمنسٹریٹر نوٹس بورڈ – Saraiki" lang="skr" hreflang="skr" data-title="وکیپیڈیا:ایڈمنسٹریٹر نوٹس بورڈ" data-language-autonym="سرائیکی" data-language-local-name="Saraiki" class="interlanguage-link-target">سرائیکی</a></li><li class="interlanguage-link interwiki-sco mw-list-item"><a href="https://sco.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticebuird" title="Wikipedia:Administrators' noticebuird – Scots" lang="sco" hreflang="sco" data-title="Wikipedia:Administrators' noticebuird" data-language-autonym="Scots" data-language-local-name="Scots" class="interlanguage-link-target">Scots</a></li><li class="interlanguage-link interwiki-si mw-list-item"><a href="https://si.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E0%B7%80%E0%B7%92%E0%B6%9A%E0%B7%92%E0%B6%B4%E0%B7%93%E0%B6%A9%E0%B7%92%E0%B6%BA%E0%B7%8F:%E0%B6%B4%E0%B6%BB%E0%B7%92%E0%B6%B4%E0%B7%8F%E0%B6%BD%E0%B6%9A%E0%B7%80%E0%B6%BB%E0%B7%94%E0%B6%B1%E0%B7%8A%E0%B6%9C%E0%B7%9A_%E0%B6%AF%E0%B7%90%E0%B6%B1%E0%B7%8A%E0%B7%80%E0%B7%93%E0%B6%B8%E0%B7%8A_%E0%B6%B4%E0%B7%94%E0%B7%80%E0%B6%BB%E0%B7%94%E0%B7%80" title="විකිපීඩියා:පරිපාලකවරුන්ගේ දැන්වීම් පුවරුව – Sinhala" lang="si" hreflang="si" data-title="විකිපීඩියා:පරිපාලකවරුන්ගේ දැන්වීම් පුවරුව" data-language-autonym="සිංහල" data-language-local-name="Sinhala" class="interlanguage-link-target">සිංහල</a></li><li class="interlanguage-link interwiki-simple mw-list-item"><a href="https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard" title="Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard – Simple English" lang="en-simple" hreflang="en-simple" data-title="Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard" data-language-autonym="Simple English" data-language-local-name="Simple English" class="interlanguage-link-target">Simple English</a></li><li class="interlanguage-link interwiki-sd mw-list-item"><a href="https://sd.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D9%88%DA%AA%D9%8A%D9%BE%D9%8A%DA%8A%D9%8A%D8%A7:%D9%85%D9%86%D8%AA%D8%B8%D9%85%D9%8A%D9%86_%27%D9%86%D9%88%D9%BD%D8%B3_%D8%A8%D9%88%D8%B1%DA%8A" title="وڪيپيڊيا:منتظمين 'نوٽس بورڊ – Sindhi" lang="sd" hreflang="sd" data-title="وڪيپيڊيا:منتظمين 'نوٽس بورڊ" data-language-autonym="سنڌي" data-language-local-name="Sindhi" class="interlanguage-link-target">سنڌي</a></li><li class="interlanguage-link interwiki-sk mw-list-item"><a href="https://sk.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikip%C3%A9dia:N%C3%A1stenka_spr%C3%A1vcov" title="Wikipédia:Nástenka správcov – Slovak" lang="sk" hreflang="sk" data-title="Wikipédia:Nástenka správcov" data-language-autonym="Slovenčina" data-language-local-name="Slovak" class="interlanguage-link-target">Slovenčina</a></li><li class="interlanguage-link interwiki-so mw-list-item"><a href="https://so.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Ogaysiiska_Maamulka" title="Wikipedia:Ogaysiiska Maamulka – Somali" lang="so" hreflang="so" data-title="Wikipedia:Ogaysiiska Maamulka" data-language-autonym="Soomaaliga" data-language-local-name="Somali" class="interlanguage-link-target">Soomaaliga</a></li><li class="interlanguage-link interwiki-ckb mw-list-item"><a href="https://ckb.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D9%88%DB%8C%DA%A9%DB%8C%D9%BE%DB%8C%D8%AF%DB%8C%D8%A7:%DA%86%D8%A7%D9%88%D8%AF%DB%8E%D8%B1%DB%8C%DB%8C_%D8%A8%DB%95%DA%95%DB%8E%D9%88%DB%95%D8%A8%DB%95%D8%B1%D8%A7%DB%8C%DB%95%D8%AA%DB%8C" title="ویکیپیدیا:چاودێریی بەڕێوەبەرایەتی – Central Kurdish" lang="ckb" hreflang="ckb" data-title="ویکیپیدیا:چاودێریی بەڕێوەبەرایەتی" data-language-autonym="کوردی" data-language-local-name="Central Kurdish" class="interlanguage-link-target">کوردی</a></li><li class="interlanguage-link interwiki-sr mw-list-item"><a href="https://sr.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%92%D0%B8%D0%BA%D0%B8%D0%BF%D0%B5%D0%B4%D0%B8%D1%98%D0%B0:%D0%90%D0%B4%D0%BC%D0%B8%D0%BD%D0%B8%D1%81%D1%82%D1%80%D0%B0%D1%82%D0%BE%D1%80%D1%81%D0%BA%D0%B0_%D1%82%D0%B0%D0%B1%D0%BB%D0%B0" title="Википедија:Администраторска табла – Serbian" lang="sr" hreflang="sr" data-title="Википедија:Администраторска табла" data-language-autonym="Српски / srpski" data-language-local-name="Serbian" class="interlanguage-link-target">Српски / srpski</a></li><li class="interlanguage-link interwiki-sh mw-list-item"><a href="https://sh.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedija:Administratorska_tabla" title="Wikipedija:Administratorska tabla – Serbo-Croatian" lang="sh" hreflang="sh" data-title="Wikipedija:Administratorska tabla" data-language-autonym="Srpskohrvatski / српскохрватски" data-language-local-name="Serbo-Croatian" class="interlanguage-link-target">Srpskohrvatski / српскохрватски</a></li><li class="interlanguage-link interwiki-su mw-list-item"><a href="https://su.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Pamundut_perhatosan_kunc%C3%A9n" title="Wikipedia:Pamundut perhatosan kuncén – Sundanese" lang="su" hreflang="su" data-title="Wikipedia:Pamundut perhatosan kuncén" data-language-autonym="Sunda" data-language-local-name="Sundanese" class="interlanguage-link-target">Sunda</a></li><li class="interlanguage-link interwiki-fi mw-list-item"><a href="https://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Yll%C3%A4pit%C3%A4jien_ilmoitustaulu" title="Wikipedia:Ylläpitäjien ilmoitustaulu – Finnish" lang="fi" hreflang="fi" data-title="Wikipedia:Ylläpitäjien ilmoitustaulu" data-language-autonym="Suomi" data-language-local-name="Finnish" class="interlanguage-link-target">Suomi</a></li><li class="interlanguage-link interwiki-sv mw-list-item"><a href="https://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Kommentarer_om_administrationen_av_Wikipedia" title="Wikipedia:Kommentarer om administrationen av Wikipedia – Swedish" lang="sv" hreflang="sv" data-title="Wikipedia:Kommentarer om administrationen av Wikipedia" data-language-autonym="Svenska" data-language-local-name="Swedish" class="interlanguage-link-target">Svenska</a></li><li class="interlanguage-link interwiki-ta mw-list-item"><a href="https://ta.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E0%AE%B5%E0%AE%BF%E0%AE%95%E0%AF%8D%E0%AE%95%E0%AE%BF%E0%AE%AA%E0%AF%8D%E0%AE%AA%E0%AF%80%E0%AE%9F%E0%AE%BF%E0%AE%AF%E0%AE%BE:%E0%AE%A8%E0%AE%BF%E0%AE%B0%E0%AF%81%E0%AE%B5%E0%AE%BE%E0%AE%95%E0%AE%BF%E0%AE%95%E0%AE%B3%E0%AF%81%E0%AE%95%E0%AF%8D%E0%AE%95%E0%AE%BE%E0%AE%A9_%E0%AE%85%E0%AE%B1%E0%AE%BF%E0%AE%B5%E0%AE%BF%E0%AE%AA%E0%AF%8D%E0%AE%AA%E0%AF%81%E0%AE%AA%E0%AF%8D%E0%AE%AA%E0%AE%B2%E0%AE%95%E0%AF%88" title="விக்கிப்பீடியா:நிருவாகிகளுக்கான அறிவிப்புப்பலகை – Tamil" lang="ta" hreflang="ta" data-title="விக்கிப்பீடியா:நிருவாகிகளுக்கான அறிவிப்புப்பலகை" data-language-autonym="தமிழ்" data-language-local-name="Tamil" class="interlanguage-link-target">தமிழ்</a></li><li class="interlanguage-link interwiki-tt mw-list-item"><a href="https://tt.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%92%D0%B8%D0%BA%D0%B8%D0%BF%D0%B5%D0%B4%D0%B8%D1%8F:%D0%98%D0%B4%D0%B0%D1%80%D3%99%D1%87%D0%B5%D0%BB%D3%99%D1%80_%D1%84%D0%BE%D1%80%D1%83%D0%BC%D1%8B" title="Википедия:Идарәчеләр форумы – Tatar" lang="tt" hreflang="tt" data-title="Википедия:Идарәчеләр форумы" data-language-autonym="Татарча / tatarça" data-language-local-name="Tatar" class="interlanguage-link-target">Татарча / tatarça</a></li><li class="interlanguage-link interwiki-te mw-list-item"><a href="https://te.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E0%B0%B5%E0%B0%BF%E0%B0%95%E0%B1%80%E0%B0%AA%E0%B1%80%E0%B0%A1%E0%B0%BF%E0%B0%AF%E0%B0%BE:%E0%B0%A8%E0%B0%BF%E0%B0%B0%E0%B1%8D%E0%B0%B5%E0%B0%BE%E0%B0%B9%E0%B0%95%E0%B1%81%E0%B0%B2_%E0%B0%A8%E0%B1%8B%E0%B0%9F%E0%B1%80%E0%B0%B8%E0%B1%81_%E0%B0%AC%E0%B1%8B%E0%B0%B0%E0%B1%8D%E0%B0%A1%E0%B1%81" title="వికీపీడియా:నిర్వాహకుల నోటీసు బోర్డు – Telugu" lang="te" hreflang="te" data-title="వికీపీడియా:నిర్వాహకుల నోటీసు బోర్డు" data-language-autonym="తెలుగు" data-language-local-name="Telugu" class="interlanguage-link-target">తెలుగు</a></li><li class="interlanguage-link interwiki-th mw-list-item"><a href="https://th.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E0%B8%A7%E0%B8%B4%E0%B8%81%E0%B8%B4%E0%B8%9E%E0%B8%B5%E0%B9%80%E0%B8%94%E0%B8%B5%E0%B8%A2:%E0%B9%81%E0%B8%88%E0%B9%89%E0%B8%87%E0%B8%9C%E0%B8%B9%E0%B9%89%E0%B8%94%E0%B8%B9%E0%B9%81%E0%B8%A5%E0%B8%A3%E0%B8%B0%E0%B8%9A%E0%B8%9A" title="วิกิพีเดีย:แจ้งผู้ดูแลระบบ – Thai" lang="th" hreflang="th" data-title="วิกิพีเดีย:แจ้งผู้ดูแลระบบ" data-language-autonym="ไทย" data-language-local-name="Thai" class="interlanguage-link-target">ไทย</a></li><li class="interlanguage-link interwiki-tg mw-list-item"><a href="https://tg.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%92%D0%B8%D0%BA%D0%B8%D0%BF%D0%B5%D0%B4%D0%B8%D0%B0:%D2%9A%D0%B0%D2%B3%D0%B2%D0%B0%D1%85%D0%BE%D0%BD%D0%B0%D0%B8_%D0%BC%D1%83%D0%B4%D0%B8%D1%80%D0%BE%D0%BD" title="Википедиа:Қаҳвахонаи мудирон – Tajik" lang="tg" hreflang="tg" data-title="Википедиа:Қаҳвахонаи мудирон" data-language-autonym="Тоҷикӣ" data-language-local-name="Tajik" class="interlanguage-link-target">Тоҷикӣ</a></li><li class="interlanguage-link interwiki-tr mw-list-item"><a href="https://tr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vikipedi:Hizmetli_duyuru_panosu" title="Vikipedi:Hizmetli duyuru panosu – Turkish" lang="tr" hreflang="tr" data-title="Vikipedi:Hizmetli duyuru panosu" data-language-autonym="Türkçe" data-language-local-name="Turkish" class="interlanguage-link-target">Türkçe</a></li><li class="interlanguage-link interwiki-tw mw-list-item"><a href="https://tw.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikpedia:Mmoa" title="Wikpedia:Mmoa – Twi" lang="tw" hreflang="tw" data-title="Wikpedia:Mmoa" data-language-autonym="Twi" data-language-local-name="Twi" class="interlanguage-link-target">Twi</a></li><li class="interlanguage-link interwiki-uk mw-list-item"><a href="https://uk.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%92%D1%96%D0%BA%D1%96%D0%BF%D0%B5%D0%B4%D1%96%D1%8F:%D0%9A%D0%BD%D0%B0%D0%B9%D0%BF%D0%B0_(%D0%B0%D0%B4%D0%BC%D1%96%D0%BD%D1%96%D1%81%D1%82%D1%80%D1%83%D0%B2%D0%B0%D0%BD%D0%BD%D1%8F)" title="Вікіпедія:Кнайпа (адміністрування) – Ukrainian" lang="uk" hreflang="uk" data-title="Вікіпедія:Кнайпа (адміністрування)" data-language-autonym="Українська" data-language-local-name="Ukrainian" class="interlanguage-link-target">Українська</a></li><li class="interlanguage-link interwiki-ur mw-list-item"><a href="https://ur.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D9%88%DB%8C%DA%A9%DB%8C%D9%BE%DB%8C%DA%88%DB%8C%D8%A7:%D8%AF%DB%8C%D9%88%D8%A7%D9%86_%D8%AE%D8%A7%D8%B5" title="ویکیپیڈیا:دیوان خاص – Urdu" lang="ur" hreflang="ur" data-title="ویکیپیڈیا:دیوان خاص" data-language-autonym="اردو" data-language-local-name="Urdu" class="interlanguage-link-target">اردو</a></li><li class="interlanguage-link interwiki-vec mw-list-item"><a href="https://vec.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Aministradori/Domande_par_i_aministradori" title="Wikipedia:Aministradori/Domande par i aministradori – Venetian" lang="vec" hreflang="vec" data-title="Wikipedia:Aministradori/Domande par i aministradori" data-language-autonym="Vèneto" data-language-local-name="Venetian" class="interlanguage-link-target">Vèneto</a></li><li class="interlanguage-link interwiki-vi mw-list-item"><a href="https://vi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Tin_nh%E1%BA%AFn_cho_b%E1%BA%A3o_qu%E1%BA%A3n_vi%C3%AAn" title="Wikipedia:Tin nhắn cho bảo quản viên – Vietnamese" lang="vi" hreflang="vi" data-title="Wikipedia:Tin nhắn cho bảo quản viên" data-language-autonym="Tiếng Việt" data-language-local-name="Vietnamese" class="interlanguage-link-target">Tiếng Việt</a></li><li class="interlanguage-link interwiki-zh-yue mw-list-item"><a href="https://zh-yue.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:%E7%AE%A1%E7%90%86%E5%93%A1%E7%95%99%E8%A8%80%E6%9D%BF" title="Wikipedia:管理員留言板 – Cantonese" lang="yue" hreflang="yue" data-title="Wikipedia:管理員留言板" data-language-autonym="粵語" data-language-local-name="Cantonese" class="interlanguage-link-target">粵語</a></li><li class="interlanguage-link interwiki-zh mw-list-item"><a href="https://zh.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:%E7%AE%A1%E7%90%86%E5%91%98%E5%B8%83%E5%91%8A%E6%9D%BF" title="Wikipedia:管理员布告板 – Chinese" lang="zh" hreflang="zh" data-title="Wikipedia:管理员布告板" data-language-autonym="中文" data-language-local-name="Chinese" class="interlanguage-link-target">中文</a></li> </ul> <div class="after-portlet after-portlet-lang"><a href="https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Special:EntityPage/Q4580256#sitelinks-wikipedia" title="Edit interlanguage links" class="wbc-editpage">Edit links</a></div> </div> </div> </div> </header> <div class="vector-page-toolbar"> <div class="vector-page-toolbar-container"> <div id="left-navigation"> <nav aria-label="Namespaces"> <div id="p-associated-pages" class="vector-menu vector-menu-tabs mw-portlet mw-portlet-associated-pages" > <div class="vector-menu-content"> <ul class="vector-menu-content-list"> <li id="ca-nstab-project" class="selected vector-tab-noicon mw-list-item"><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard" title="View the project page [c]" accesskey="c">Project page</a></li><li id="ca-talk" class="vector-tab-noicon mw-list-item"><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Administrators%27_noticeboard" rel="discussion" title="Discuss improvements to the content page [t]" accesskey="t">Talk</a></li> </ul> </div> </div> <div id="vector-variants-dropdown" class="vector-dropdown emptyPortlet" > <input type="checkbox" id="vector-variants-dropdown-checkbox" role="button" aria-haspopup="true" data-event-name="ui.dropdown-vector-variants-dropdown" class="vector-dropdown-checkbox " aria-label="Change language variant" > <label id="vector-variants-dropdown-label" for="vector-variants-dropdown-checkbox" class="vector-dropdown-label cdx-button cdx-button--fake-button cdx-button--fake-button--enabled cdx-button--weight-quiet" aria-hidden="true" >English </label> <div class="vector-dropdown-content"> <div id="p-variants" class="vector-menu mw-portlet mw-portlet-variants emptyPortlet" > <div class="vector-menu-content"> <ul class="vector-menu-content-list"> </ul> </div> </div> </div> </div> </nav> </div> <div id="right-navigation" class="vector-collapsible"> <nav aria-label="Views"> <div id="p-views" class="vector-menu vector-menu-tabs mw-portlet mw-portlet-views" > <div class="vector-menu-content"> <ul class="vector-menu-content-list"> <li id="ca-view" class="selected vector-tab-noicon mw-list-item"><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard">Read</a></li><li id="ca-edit" class="vector-tab-noicon mw-list-item"><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard&action=edit" title="Edit this page [e]" accesskey="e">Edit</a></li><li id="ca-addsection" class="vector-tab-noicon mw-list-item"><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard&action=edit&section=new" title="Start a new section [+]" accesskey="+">Add topic</a></li><li id="ca-history" class="vector-tab-noicon mw-list-item"><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard&action=history" title="Past revisions of this page [h]" accesskey="h">View history</a></li> </ul> </div> </div> </nav> <nav class="vector-page-tools-landmark" aria-label="Page tools"> <div id="vector-page-tools-dropdown" class="vector-dropdown vector-page-tools-dropdown" > <input type="checkbox" id="vector-page-tools-dropdown-checkbox" role="button" aria-haspopup="true" data-event-name="ui.dropdown-vector-page-tools-dropdown" class="vector-dropdown-checkbox " aria-label="Tools" > <label id="vector-page-tools-dropdown-label" for="vector-page-tools-dropdown-checkbox" class="vector-dropdown-label cdx-button cdx-button--fake-button cdx-button--fake-button--enabled cdx-button--weight-quiet" aria-hidden="true" >Tools </label> <div class="vector-dropdown-content"> <div id="vector-page-tools-unpinned-container" class="vector-unpinned-container"> <div id="vector-page-tools" class="vector-page-tools vector-pinnable-element"> <div class="vector-pinnable-header vector-page-tools-pinnable-header vector-pinnable-header-unpinned" data-feature-name="page-tools-pinned" data-pinnable-element-id="vector-page-tools" data-pinned-container-id="vector-page-tools-pinned-container" data-unpinned-container-id="vector-page-tools-unpinned-container" > <div class="vector-pinnable-header-label">Tools</div> <button class="vector-pinnable-header-toggle-button vector-pinnable-header-pin-button" data-event-name="pinnable-header.vector-page-tools.pin">move to sidebar</button> <button class="vector-pinnable-header-toggle-button vector-pinnable-header-unpin-button" data-event-name="pinnable-header.vector-page-tools.unpin">hide</button> </div> <div id="p-cactions" class="vector-menu mw-portlet mw-portlet-cactions emptyPortlet vector-has-collapsible-items" title="More options" > <div class="vector-menu-heading"> Actions </div> <div class="vector-menu-content"> <ul class="vector-menu-content-list"> <li id="ca-more-view" class="selected vector-more-collapsible-item mw-list-item"><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard">Read</a></li><li id="ca-more-edit" class="vector-more-collapsible-item mw-list-item"><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard&action=edit" title="Edit this page [e]" accesskey="e">Edit</a></li><li id="ca-more-addsection" class="vector-more-collapsible-item mw-list-item"><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard&action=edit&section=new">Add topic</a></li><li id="ca-more-history" class="vector-more-collapsible-item mw-list-item"><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard&action=history">View history</a></li> </ul> </div> </div> <div id="p-tb" class="vector-menu mw-portlet mw-portlet-tb" > <div class="vector-menu-heading"> General </div> <div class="vector-menu-content"> <ul class="vector-menu-content-list"> <li id="t-whatlinkshere" class="mw-list-item"><a href="/wiki/Special:WhatLinksHere/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard" title="List of all English Wikipedia pages containing links to this page [j]" accesskey="j">What links here</a></li><li id="t-recentchangeslinked" class="mw-list-item"><a href="/wiki/Special:RecentChangesLinked/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard" rel="nofollow" title="Recent changes in pages linked from this page [k]" accesskey="k">Related changes</a></li><li id="t-upload" class="mw-list-item"><a href="//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:File_Upload_Wizard" title="Upload files [u]" accesskey="u">Upload file</a></li><li id="t-permalink" class="mw-list-item"><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard&oldid=1278641896" title="Permanent link to this revision of this page">Permanent link</a></li><li id="t-info" class="mw-list-item"><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard&action=info" title="More information about this page">Page information</a></li><li id="t-urlshortener" class="mw-list-item"><a href="/w/index.php?title=Special:UrlShortener&url=https%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FWikipedia%3AAdministrators%2527_noticeboard">Get shortened URL</a></li><li id="t-urlshortener-qrcode" class="mw-list-item"><a href="/w/index.php?title=Special:QrCode&url=https%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FWikipedia%3AAdministrators%2527_noticeboard">Download QR code</a></li> </ul> </div> </div> <div id="p-coll-print_export" class="vector-menu mw-portlet mw-portlet-coll-print_export" > <div class="vector-menu-heading"> Print/export </div> <div class="vector-menu-content"> <ul class="vector-menu-content-list"> <li id="coll-download-as-rl" class="mw-list-item"><a href="/w/index.php?title=Special:DownloadAsPdf&page=Wikipedia%3AAdministrators%27_noticeboard&action=show-download-screen" title="Download this page as a PDF file">Download as PDF</a></li><li id="t-print" class="mw-list-item"><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard&printable=yes" title="Printable version of this page [p]" accesskey="p">Printable version</a></li> </ul> </div> </div> <div id="p-wikibase-otherprojects" class="vector-menu mw-portlet mw-portlet-wikibase-otherprojects" > <div class="vector-menu-heading"> In other projects </div> <div class="vector-menu-content"> <ul class="vector-menu-content-list"> <li class="wb-otherproject-link wb-otherproject-commons mw-list-item"><a href="https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Administrators%27_noticeboard" hreflang="en">Wikimedia Commons</a></li><li class="wb-otherproject-link wb-otherproject-mediawiki badge-Q70893996 mw-list-item" title=""><a href="https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Project:Administrators%27_noticeboard" hreflang="en">MediaWiki</a></li><li class="wb-otherproject-link wb-otherproject-species mw-list-item"><a href="https://species.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikispecies:Administrators%27_Noticeboard" hreflang="en">Wikispecies</a></li><li class="wb-otherproject-link wb-otherproject-wikidata mw-list-item"><a href="https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Administrators%27_noticeboard" hreflang="en">Wikidata</a></li><li class="wb-otherproject-link wb-otherproject-wikifunctions mw-list-item"><a href="https://www.wikifunctions.org/wiki/Wikifunctions:Administrators%27_noticeboard" hreflang="en">Wikifunctions</a></li><li class="wb-otherproject-link wb-otherproject-wikiquote mw-list-item"><a href="https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Wikiquote:Administrators%27_noticeboard" hreflang="en">Wikiquote</a></li><li class="wb-otherproject-link wb-otherproject-wikisource mw-list-item"><a href="https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Wikisource:Administrators%27_noticeboard" hreflang="en">Wikisource</a></li><li class="wb-otherproject-link wb-otherproject-wikiversity mw-list-item"><a href="https://en.wikiversity.org/wiki/Wikiversity:Notices_for_custodians" hreflang="en">Wikiversity</a></li><li id="t-wikibase" class="wb-otherproject-link wb-otherproject-wikibase-dataitem mw-list-item"><a href="https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Special:EntityPage/Q4580256" title="Structured data on this page hosted by Wikidata [g]" accesskey="g">Wikidata item</a></li> </ul> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </nav> </div> </div> </div> <div class="vector-column-end"> <div class="vector-sticky-pinned-container"> <nav class="vector-page-tools-landmark" aria-label="Page tools"> <div id="vector-page-tools-pinned-container" class="vector-pinned-container"> </div> </nav> <nav class="vector-appearance-landmark" aria-label="Appearance"> <div id="vector-appearance-pinned-container" class="vector-pinned-container"> <div id="vector-appearance" class="vector-appearance vector-pinnable-element"> <div class="vector-pinnable-header vector-appearance-pinnable-header vector-pinnable-header-pinned" data-feature-name="appearance-pinned" data-pinnable-element-id="vector-appearance" data-pinned-container-id="vector-appearance-pinned-container" data-unpinned-container-id="vector-appearance-unpinned-container" > <div class="vector-pinnable-header-label">Appearance</div> <button class="vector-pinnable-header-toggle-button vector-pinnable-header-pin-button" data-event-name="pinnable-header.vector-appearance.pin">move to sidebar</button> <button class="vector-pinnable-header-toggle-button vector-pinnable-header-unpin-button" data-event-name="pinnable-header.vector-appearance.unpin">hide</button> </div> </div> </div> </nav> </div> </div> <div id="bodyContent" class="vector-body" aria-labelledby="firstHeading" data-mw-ve-target-container> <div class="vector-body-before-content"> <div class="mw-indicators"> <div id="mw-indicator-00skiplinks" class="mw-indicator"><div class="mw-parser-output"><style data-mw-deduplicate="TemplateStyles:r1129693374">.mw-parser-output .hlist dl,.mw-parser-output .hlist ol,.mw-parser-output .hlist ul{margin:0;padding:0}.mw-parser-output .hlist dd,.mw-parser-output .hlist dt,.mw-parser-output .hlist li{margin:0;display:inline}.mw-parser-output .hlist.inline,.mw-parser-output .hlist.inline dl,.mw-parser-output .hlist.inline ol,.mw-parser-output .hlist.inline ul,.mw-parser-output .hlist dl dl,.mw-parser-output .hlist dl ol,.mw-parser-output .hlist dl ul,.mw-parser-output .hlist ol dl,.mw-parser-output .hlist ol ol,.mw-parser-output .hlist ol ul,.mw-parser-output .hlist ul dl,.mw-parser-output .hlist ul ol,.mw-parser-output .hlist ul ul{display:inline}.mw-parser-output .hlist .mw-empty-li{display:none}.mw-parser-output .hlist dt::after{content:": "}.mw-parser-output .hlist dd::after,.mw-parser-output .hlist li::after{content:" · ";font-weight:bold}.mw-parser-output .hlist dd:last-child::after,.mw-parser-output .hlist dt:last-child::after,.mw-parser-output .hlist li:last-child::after{content:none}.mw-parser-output .hlist dd dd:first-child::before,.mw-parser-output .hlist dd dt:first-child::before,.mw-parser-output .hlist dd li:first-child::before,.mw-parser-output .hlist dt dd:first-child::before,.mw-parser-output .hlist dt dt:first-child::before,.mw-parser-output .hlist dt li:first-child::before,.mw-parser-output .hlist li dd:first-child::before,.mw-parser-output .hlist li dt:first-child::before,.mw-parser-output .hlist li li:first-child::before{content:" (";font-weight:normal}.mw-parser-output .hlist dd dd:last-child::after,.mw-parser-output .hlist dd dt:last-child::after,.mw-parser-output .hlist dd li:last-child::after,.mw-parser-output .hlist dt dd:last-child::after,.mw-parser-output .hlist dt dt:last-child::after,.mw-parser-output .hlist dt li:last-child::after,.mw-parser-output .hlist li dd:last-child::after,.mw-parser-output .hlist li dt:last-child::after,.mw-parser-output .hlist li li:last-child::after{content:")";font-weight:normal}.mw-parser-output .hlist ol{counter-reset:listitem}.mw-parser-output .hlist ol>li{counter-increment:listitem}.mw-parser-output .hlist ol>li::before{content:" "counter(listitem)"\a0 "}.mw-parser-output .hlist dd ol>li:first-child::before,.mw-parser-output .hlist dt ol>li:first-child::before,.mw-parser-output .hlist li ol>li:first-child::before{content:" ("counter(listitem)"\a0 "}</style><div class="hlist nomobile metadata noprint" style="border:1px solid #a9a9a9; background:#fff; color:inherit; font-size:90%; padding:1px 4px 0;"><li class="skip-to-toc"> <a href="#toc">Skip to TOC</a></li> <li> <a href="#footer">Skip to bottom</a><a href="#mw-footer">Skip to bottom</a></li> </div></div></div> </div> <div id="siteSub" class="noprint">From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia</div> </div> <div id="contentSub"><div id="mw-content-subtitle"></div></div> <div id="mw-content-text" class="mw-body-content"><div class="mw-content-ltr mw-parser-output" lang="en" dir="ltr"><div class="shortdescription nomobile noexcerpt noprint searchaux" style="display:none">Notices of interest to administrators</div> <div class="navbox-styles"><style data-mw-deduplicate="TemplateStyles:r1129693374">.mw-parser-output .hlist dl,.mw-parser-output .hlist ol,.mw-parser-output .hlist ul{margin:0;padding:0}.mw-parser-output .hlist dd,.mw-parser-output .hlist dt,.mw-parser-output .hlist li{margin:0;display:inline}.mw-parser-output .hlist.inline,.mw-parser-output .hlist.inline dl,.mw-parser-output .hlist.inline ol,.mw-parser-output .hlist.inline ul,.mw-parser-output .hlist dl dl,.mw-parser-output .hlist dl ol,.mw-parser-output .hlist dl ul,.mw-parser-output .hlist ol dl,.mw-parser-output .hlist ol ol,.mw-parser-output .hlist ol ul,.mw-parser-output .hlist ul dl,.mw-parser-output .hlist ul ol,.mw-parser-output .hlist ul ul{display:inline}.mw-parser-output .hlist .mw-empty-li{display:none}.mw-parser-output .hlist dt::after{content:": "}.mw-parser-output .hlist dd::after,.mw-parser-output .hlist li::after{content:" · ";font-weight:bold}.mw-parser-output .hlist dd:last-child::after,.mw-parser-output .hlist dt:last-child::after,.mw-parser-output .hlist li:last-child::after{content:none}.mw-parser-output .hlist dd dd:first-child::before,.mw-parser-output .hlist dd dt:first-child::before,.mw-parser-output .hlist dd li:first-child::before,.mw-parser-output .hlist dt dd:first-child::before,.mw-parser-output .hlist dt dt:first-child::before,.mw-parser-output .hlist dt li:first-child::before,.mw-parser-output .hlist li dd:first-child::before,.mw-parser-output .hlist li dt:first-child::before,.mw-parser-output .hlist li li:first-child::before{content:" (";font-weight:normal}.mw-parser-output .hlist dd dd:last-child::after,.mw-parser-output .hlist dd dt:last-child::after,.mw-parser-output .hlist dd li:last-child::after,.mw-parser-output .hlist dt dd:last-child::after,.mw-parser-output .hlist dt dt:last-child::after,.mw-parser-output .hlist dt li:last-child::after,.mw-parser-output .hlist li dd:last-child::after,.mw-parser-output .hlist li dt:last-child::after,.mw-parser-output .hlist li li:last-child::after{content:")";font-weight:normal}.mw-parser-output .hlist ol{counter-reset:listitem}.mw-parser-output .hlist ol>li{counter-increment:listitem}.mw-parser-output .hlist ol>li::before{content:" "counter(listitem)"\a0 "}.mw-parser-output .hlist dd ol>li:first-child::before,.mw-parser-output .hlist dt ol>li:first-child::before,.mw-parser-output .hlist li ol>li:first-child::before{content:" ("counter(listitem)"\a0 "}</style><style data-mw-deduplicate="TemplateStyles:r1236075235">.mw-parser-output .navbox{box-sizing:border-box;border:1px solid #a2a9b1;width:100%;clear:both;font-size:88%;text-align:center;padding:1px;margin:1em auto 0}.mw-parser-output .navbox .navbox{margin-top:0}.mw-parser-output .navbox+.navbox,.mw-parser-output .navbox+.navbox-styles+.navbox{margin-top:-1px}.mw-parser-output .navbox-inner,.mw-parser-output .navbox-subgroup{width:100%}.mw-parser-output .navbox-group,.mw-parser-output .navbox-title,.mw-parser-output .navbox-abovebelow{padding:0.25em 1em;line-height:1.5em;text-align:center}.mw-parser-output .navbox-group{white-space:nowrap;text-align:right}.mw-parser-output .navbox,.mw-parser-output .navbox-subgroup{background-color:#fdfdfd}.mw-parser-output .navbox-list{line-height:1.5em;border-color:#fdfdfd}.mw-parser-output .navbox-list-with-group{text-align:left;border-left-width:2px;border-left-style:solid}.mw-parser-output tr+tr>.navbox-abovebelow,.mw-parser-output tr+tr>.navbox-group,.mw-parser-output tr+tr>.navbox-image,.mw-parser-output tr+tr>.navbox-list{border-top:2px solid #fdfdfd}.mw-parser-output .navbox-title{background-color:#ccf}.mw-parser-output .navbox-abovebelow,.mw-parser-output .navbox-group,.mw-parser-output .navbox-subgroup .navbox-title{background-color:#ddf}.mw-parser-output .navbox-subgroup .navbox-group,.mw-parser-output .navbox-subgroup .navbox-abovebelow{background-color:#e6e6ff}.mw-parser-output .navbox-even{background-color:#f7f7f7}.mw-parser-output .navbox-odd{background-color:transparent}.mw-parser-output .navbox .hlist td dl,.mw-parser-output .navbox .hlist td ol,.mw-parser-output .navbox .hlist td ul,.mw-parser-output .navbox td.hlist dl,.mw-parser-output .navbox td.hlist ol,.mw-parser-output .navbox td.hlist ul{padding:0.125em 0}.mw-parser-output .navbox .navbar{display:block;font-size:100%}.mw-parser-output .navbox-title .navbar{float:left;text-align:left;margin-right:0.5em}body.skin--responsive .mw-parser-output .navbox-image img{max-width:none!important}@media print{body.ns-0 .mw-parser-output .navbox{display:none!important}}</style></div><div role="navigation" class="navbox" aria-labelledby="Noticeboards468" style="padding:3px"><table class="nowraplinks mw-collapsible expanded navbox-inner" style="border-spacing:0;background:transparent;color:inherit"><tbody><tr><th scope="col" class="navbox-title" colspan="2" style="background-color: #aad1ff;"><link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1129693374" /><style data-mw-deduplicate="TemplateStyles:r1239400231">.mw-parser-output .navbar{display:inline;font-size:88%;font-weight:normal}.mw-parser-output .navbar-collapse{float:left;text-align:left}.mw-parser-output .navbar-boxtext{word-spacing:0}.mw-parser-output .navbar ul{display:inline-block;white-space:nowrap;line-height:inherit}.mw-parser-output .navbar-brackets::before{margin-right:-0.125em;content:"[ "}.mw-parser-output .navbar-brackets::after{margin-left:-0.125em;content:" ]"}.mw-parser-output .navbar li{word-spacing:-0.125em}.mw-parser-output .navbar a>span,.mw-parser-output .navbar a>abbr{text-decoration:inherit}.mw-parser-output .navbar-mini abbr{font-variant:small-caps;border-bottom:none;text-decoration:none;cursor:inherit}.mw-parser-output .navbar-ct-full{font-size:114%;margin:0 7em}.mw-parser-output .navbar-ct-mini{font-size:114%;margin:0 4em}html.skin-theme-clientpref-night .mw-parser-output .navbar li a abbr{color:var(--color-base)!important}@media(prefers-color-scheme:dark){html.skin-theme-clientpref-os .mw-parser-output .navbar li a abbr{color:var(--color-base)!important}}@media print{.mw-parser-output .navbar{display:none!important}}</style><div class="navbar plainlinks hlist navbar-mini"><ul><li class="nv-view"><a href="/wiki/Template:Noticeboard_links" title="Template:Noticeboard links"><abbr title="View this template">v</abbr></a></li><li class="nv-talk"><a href="/wiki/Template_talk:Noticeboard_links" title="Template talk:Noticeboard links"><abbr title="Discuss this template">t</abbr></a></li><li class="nv-edit"><a href="/wiki/Special:EditPage/Template:Noticeboard_links" title="Special:EditPage/Template:Noticeboard links"><abbr title="Edit this template">e</abbr></a></li></ul></div><div id="Noticeboards468" style="font-size:114%;margin:0 4em"><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Noticeboards" title="Wikipedia:Noticeboards">Noticeboards</a></div></th></tr><tr><td class="navbox-abovebelow" colspan="2" style="background-color: #cae1ff;"><div>Wikipedia's centralized <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Request_directory" title="Wikipedia:Request directory">discussion, request, and help venues</a>. For a listing of ongoing discussions and current requests, see the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Dashboard" title="Wikipedia:Dashboard">dashboard</a>. For a related set of forums which do not function as noticeboards see <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Processes#Formal_review" title="Wikipedia:Processes">formal review processes</a>.</div></td></tr><tr><th scope="row" class="navbox-group" style="width:1%;background-color: #cae1ff;">General</th><td class="navbox-list-with-group navbox-list navbox-odd hlist" style="width:100%;padding:0"><div style="padding:0 0.25em"> <ul><li>Administrators <ul><li><a class="mw-selflink selflink">Main</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Incidents" title="Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents">Incidents</a></li></ul></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Bots/Noticeboard" title="Wikipedia:Bots/Noticeboard">Bots</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Bureaucrats%27_noticeboard" title="Wikipedia:Bureaucrats' noticeboard">Bureaucrats</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Centralized_discussion" title="Wikipedia:Centralized discussion">Centralized discussion</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Closure_requests" title="Wikipedia:Closure requests">Closure requests</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Education_noticeboard" title="Wikipedia:Education noticeboard">Education</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Interface_administrators%27_noticeboard" title="Wikipedia:Interface administrators' noticeboard">Interface admins</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Main_Page/Errors" title="Wikipedia:Main Page/Errors">Main Page errors</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Open_proxies" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Open proxies">Open proxies</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:VRT_noticeboard" title="Wikipedia:VRT noticeboard">VRT</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Requests_for_oversight" title="Wikipedia:Requests for oversight">Oversight</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Requests_for_permissions" title="Wikipedia:Requests for permissions">User permissions</a></li></ul> </div></td></tr><tr><th scope="row" class="navbox-group" style="width:1%;background-color: #cae1ff;">Articles, content</th><td class="navbox-list-with-group navbox-list navbox-even hlist" style="width:100%;padding:0"><div style="padding:0 0.25em"> <ul><li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Biographies_of_living_persons/Noticeboard" title="Wikipedia:Biographies of living persons/Noticeboard">Biographies of living persons</a></li> <li>Copyrights <ul><li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Media_copyright_questions" title="Wikipedia:Media copyright questions">Questions on media</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Copyright_problems" title="Wikipedia:Copyright problems">Problems</a></li></ul></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard" title="Wikipedia:Dispute resolution noticeboard">Dispute resolution</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:External_links/Noticeboard" title="Wikipedia:External links/Noticeboard">External links</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Fringe_theories/Noticeboard" title="Wikipedia:Fringe theories/Noticeboard">Fringe theories</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Neutral_point_of_view/Noticeboard" title="Wikipedia:Neutral point of view/Noticeboard">Neutral point of view</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:No_original_research/Noticeboard" title="Wikipedia:No original research/Noticeboard">Original research</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Pending_changes" title="Wikipedia talk:Pending changes">Pending changes</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Reliable_sources/Noticeboard" title="Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Noticeboard">Reliable sources</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Resource_Exchange/Resource_Request" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Resource Exchange/Resource Request">Resource requests</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:SVG_help" title="Wikipedia:SVG help">Scalable vector graphics</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Spam" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Spam">Spam</a> <ul><li><a href="/wiki/MediaWiki_talk:Spam-blacklist" title="MediaWiki talk:Spam-blacklist">Blacklist</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/MediaWiki_talk:Spam-whitelist" title="MediaWiki talk:Spam-whitelist">Whitelist</a></li></ul></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Manual_of_Style" title="Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style">Style</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/MediaWiki_talk:Titleblacklist" title="MediaWiki talk:Titleblacklist">Titleblacklist</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Pages_needing_translation_into_English" title="Wikipedia:Pages needing translation into English">Translation</a></li></ul> </div></td></tr><tr><th scope="row" class="navbox-group" style="width:1%;background-color: #cae1ff;">Page handling</th><td class="navbox-list-with-group navbox-list navbox-odd hlist" style="width:100%;padding:0"><div style="padding:0 0.25em"> <ul><li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Requests_for_history_merge" title="Wikipedia:Requests for history merge">History merges</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Proposed_article_mergers" title="Wikipedia:Proposed article mergers">Mergers</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Proposed_article_splits" title="Wikipedia:Proposed article splits">Splits</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Requested_moves" title="Wikipedia:Requested moves">Moves</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Requests_for_page_protection" title="Wikipedia:Requests for page protection">Protection</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Requests_for_page_importation" title="Wikipedia:Requests for page importation">Importation</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Deletion_process" title="Wikipedia:Deletion process">XfD</a> <ul><li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion" title="Wikipedia:Articles for deletion">Articles</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Redirects_for_discussion" title="Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion">Redirects</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion" title="Wikipedia:Categories for discussion">Categories</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Templates_for_discussion" title="Wikipedia:Templates for discussion">Templates</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Files_for_discussion" title="Wikipedia:Files for discussion">Files</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Miscellany_for_deletion" title="Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion">Miscellany</a></li></ul></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Requests_for_undeletion" title="Wikipedia:Requests for undeletion">Undeletion</a></li></ul> </div></td></tr><tr><th scope="row" class="navbox-group" style="width:1%;background-color: #cae1ff;">User conduct</th><td class="navbox-list-with-group navbox-list navbox-even hlist" style="width:100%;padding:0"><div style="padding:0 0.25em"> <ul><li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Conflict_of_interest/Noticeboard" title="Wikipedia:Conflict of interest/Noticeboard">Conflict of interest</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Contributor_copyright_investigations" title="Wikipedia:Contributor copyright investigations">Contributor copyright</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Edit_warring" title="Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Edit warring">Edit warring and 3RR</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Sanctions" title="Wikipedia:Sanctions">Sanctions</a> <ul><li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Editing_restrictions" title="Wikipedia:Editing restrictions">Personal restrictions</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:General_sanctions" title="Wikipedia:General sanctions">General sanctions</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Contentious_topics" title="Wikipedia:Contentious topics">Contentious topics</a></li></ul></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Sockpuppet_investigations" title="Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations">Sockpuppets</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Usernames_for_administrator_attention" title="Wikipedia:Usernames for administrator attention">Usernames</a> (<a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Requests_for_comment/User_names" title="Wikipedia:Requests for comment/User names">Requests for comment</a>)</li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrator_intervention_against_vandalism" title="Wikipedia:Administrator intervention against vandalism">Vandalism</a></li></ul> </div></td></tr><tr><th scope="row" class="navbox-group" style="width:1%;background-color: #cae1ff;">Other</th><td class="navbox-list-with-group navbox-list navbox-odd hlist" style="width:100%;padding:0"><div style="padding:0 0.25em"> <ul><li>Arbitration <ul><li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration_Committee/Noticeboard" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration Committee/Noticeboard">Committee noticeboard</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests">Requests</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement">Enforcement</a></li></ul></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Edit_filter_noticeboard" title="Wikipedia:Edit filter noticeboard">Edit filters</a> <ul><li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Edit_filter/Requested" title="Wikipedia:Edit filter/Requested">Requested</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Edit_filter/False_positives" title="Wikipedia:Edit filter/False positives">False positives</a></li></ul></li> <li>Questions <ul><li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Help_desk" title="Wikipedia:Help desk">Help desk</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Teahouse" title="Wikipedia:Teahouse">Teahouse</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk" title="Wikipedia:Reference desk">Reference desk</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Articles_for_creation/Help_desk" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Articles for creation/Help desk">New articles</a></li></ul></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Requests_for_comment/All" title="Wikipedia:Requests for comment/All">Requests for comment</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Village_pump" title="Wikipedia:Village pump">Village pump</a> <ul><li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Village_pump_(policy)" title="Wikipedia:Village pump (policy)">Policy</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Village_pump_(technical)" title="Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)">Technical</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Village_pump_(proposals)" title="Wikipedia:Village pump (proposals)">Proposals</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Village_pump_(idea_lab)" title="Wikipedia:Village pump (idea lab)">Idea lab</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Village_pump_(WMF)" title="Wikipedia:Village pump (WMF)">WMF</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Village_pump_(miscellaneous)" title="Wikipedia:Village pump (miscellaneous)">Miscellaneous</a></li></ul></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Council/Proposals" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Council/Proposals">WikiProject proposals</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Discussions_for_discussion" title="Wikipedia:Discussions for discussion">Discussions for discussion</a></li></ul> </div></td></tr><tr><td class="navbox-abovebelow" colspan="2" style="background-color: #cae1ff;"><div> <a href="/wiki/Category:Wikipedia_noticeboards" title="Category:Wikipedia noticeboards">Category:Wikipedia noticeboards</a></div></td></tr></tbody></table></div><style data-mw-deduplicate="TemplateStyles:r1214005174">body.skin-vector-2022 .mw-parser-output .skip-to-toc,body.skin-timeless .mw-parser-output .skip-to-bottom,.mw-parser-output .skip-to-bottom-timeless{display:none}body.skin-timeless .mw-parser-output .skip-to-bottom-timeless{display:inline}</style> <ul></ul> <div style="margin: 2px 0 0.5em; padding: 0.5em; border: 1px solid #A0A5AD; background-color: var(--background-color-progressive-subtle, #eaf3ff); color: inherit;"> <div style="padding: 0.25em 0; text-align: center; font-size: 120%; border-radius: 3px; font-weight: bold; background-color: var(--background-color-content-added, #aad1ff); color: inherit;">Welcome — post issues of interest to <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators" title="Wikipedia:Administrators">administrators</a>.</div> <div style="margin: 0.5em 0;"><style data-mw-deduplicate="TemplateStyles:r1252059228">.mw-parser-output .module-shortcutboxplain{float:right;margin:0 0 0 1em;border:1px solid var(--border-color-base,#a2a9b1);background-color:var(--background-color-base,#fff);padding:0.3em 0.6em 0.2em 0.6em;text-align:center;font-size:85%}.mw-parser-output .module-shortcutboxleft{float:left;margin:0 1em 0 0}.mw-parser-output .module-shortcutlist{display:inline-block;border-bottom:1px solid var(--border-color-base,#a2a9b1);margin-bottom:0.2em}.mw-parser-output .module-shortcutboxplain ul{font-weight:bold}.mw-parser-output .module-shortcutanchordiv{position:relative;top:-3em}.mw-parser-output li .module-shortcutanchordiv{float:right}.mw-parser-output .mbox-imageright .module-shortcutboxplain{padding:0.4em 1em 0.4em 1em;line-height:1.3;margin:0}</style><div class="module-shortcutanchordiv"></div><div class="module-shortcutboxplain noprint" role="note"><div class="module-shortcutlist"><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Shortcut" title="Wikipedia:Shortcut">Shortcuts</a></div><style data-mw-deduplicate="TemplateStyles:r1126788409">.mw-parser-output .plainlist ol,.mw-parser-output .plainlist ul{line-height:inherit;list-style:none;margin:0;padding:0}.mw-parser-output .plainlist ol li,.mw-parser-output .plainlist ul li{margin-bottom:0}</style><div class="plainlist"><ul><li><a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:AN&redirect=no">WP:AN</a></li><li><a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:ANB&redirect=no">WP:ANB</a></li></ul></div></div></div> <ul><li>For urgent incidents and chronic, intractable behavioral problems, use <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Incidents" title="Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents">Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents</a>.</li> <li>To request review of an administrator's action or other use of advanced permissions, use <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrative_action_review" title="Wikipedia:Administrative action review">Wikipedia:Administrative action review</a>.</li> <li>If you are new, try the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Teahouse" title="Wikipedia:Teahouse">Teahouse</a> instead.</li> <li>Do not report breaches of personal information on this highly visible page – instead, follow the instructions on <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Requests_for_oversight" title="Wikipedia:Requests for oversight">Wikipedia:Requests for oversight</a>.</li> <li>For administrative backlogs add <code>{{<a href="/wiki/Template:Admin_backlog" title="Template:Admin backlog">Admin backlog</a>}}</code> to the backlogged page; post here only if urgent.</li> <li>Do not post <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Requests_for_page_protection" title="Wikipedia:Requests for page protection">requests for page protection</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:XfD" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:XfD">deletion requests</a>, or <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:BLOCKREQ" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:BLOCKREQ">block requests</a> here.</li> <li>Just want an admin? Contact a <a class="external text" href="https://apersonbot.toolforge.org/recently-active/?admins">recently active admin</a> directly.</li> <li>If you want to challenge the closure of a <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Requests_for_comment" title="Wikipedia:Requests for comment">request for comment</a>, use <code>{{<a href="/wiki/Template:RfC_closure_review" title="Template:RfC closure review">RfC closure review</a>}}</code></li></ul> <div class="skin-invert" style="width: 70%; margin: 1em auto; padding: 0 1em; border: 2px solid #ff0000; text-align: center; background-color: #ffeeee; color: #000000;"> When you start a discussion about an editor, you must leave a notice on their talk page. <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:PING" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:PING">Pinging</a> is <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Archive281#Difference_between_a_ping_and_a_noticeboard_notice" title="Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Archive281">not enough</a>. You may use <code>{{<a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Substitution" title="Wikipedia:Substitution">subst</a>:<a href="/wiki/Template:AN-notice" title="Template:AN-notice">AN-notice</a>}} ~~~~</code> to do so. </div> <a href="/wiki/File:Symbol_information_vote.svg" class="mw-file-description"><img alt="information" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/8c/Symbol_information_vote.svg/18px-Symbol_information_vote.svg.png" decoding="async" width="18" height="19" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/8c/Symbol_information_vote.svg/27px-Symbol_information_vote.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/8c/Symbol_information_vote.svg/36px-Symbol_information_vote.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="180" data-file-height="185" /></a> Sections inactive for over seven days are <a href="/wiki/Help:Archiving_a_talk_page" title="Help:Archiving a talk page">archived</a> by <a href="/wiki/User:Lowercase_sigmabot_III" title="User:Lowercase sigmabot III">Lowercase sigmabot III</a>.<style data-mw-deduplicate="TemplateStyles:r1150407293">body:not(.skin-minerva) .mw-parser-output .ifmobile>.mobile{display:none}body.skin-minerva .mw-parser-output .ifmobile>.nomobile{display:inherit;display:initial}</style>(<a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Archives" title="Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Archives">archives</a>, <a href="/wiki/Template:Administrators%27_noticeboard_archives/Search" title="Template:Administrators' noticeboard archives/Search">search</a>) <div style="font-size:125%; text-align:center;"><a href="/wiki/Special:NewSection/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard" title="Special:NewSection/Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard">Start a new discussion</a></div> <div style="clear:both;" class=""></div></div> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Open_tasks" data-mw-thread-id="h-Open_tasks">Open tasks</h2>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard&action=edit&section=1" title="Edit section: Open tasks">edit</a>]</div> <style data-mw-deduplicate="TemplateStyles:r1246091330">.mw-parser-output .sidebar{width:22em;float:right;clear:right;margin:0.5em 0 1em 1em;background:var(--background-color-neutral-subtle,#f8f9fa);border:1px solid var(--border-color-base,#a2a9b1);padding:0.2em;text-align:center;line-height:1.4em;font-size:88%;border-collapse:collapse;display:table}body.skin-minerva .mw-parser-output .sidebar{display:table!important;float:right!important;margin:0.5em 0 1em 1em!important}.mw-parser-output .sidebar-subgroup{width:100%;margin:0;border-spacing:0}.mw-parser-output .sidebar-left{float:left;clear:left;margin:0.5em 1em 1em 0}.mw-parser-output .sidebar-none{float:none;clear:both;margin:0.5em 1em 1em 0}.mw-parser-output .sidebar-outer-title{padding:0 0.4em 0.2em;font-size:125%;line-height:1.2em;font-weight:bold}.mw-parser-output .sidebar-top-image{padding:0.4em}.mw-parser-output .sidebar-top-caption,.mw-parser-output .sidebar-pretitle-with-top-image,.mw-parser-output .sidebar-caption{padding:0.2em 0.4em 0;line-height:1.2em}.mw-parser-output .sidebar-pretitle{padding:0.4em 0.4em 0;line-height:1.2em}.mw-parser-output .sidebar-title,.mw-parser-output .sidebar-title-with-pretitle{padding:0.2em 0.8em;font-size:145%;line-height:1.2em}.mw-parser-output .sidebar-title-with-pretitle{padding:0.1em 0.4em}.mw-parser-output .sidebar-image{padding:0.2em 0.4em 0.4em}.mw-parser-output .sidebar-heading{padding:0.1em 0.4em}.mw-parser-output .sidebar-content{padding:0 0.5em 0.4em}.mw-parser-output .sidebar-content-with-subgroup{padding:0.1em 0.4em 0.2em}.mw-parser-output .sidebar-above,.mw-parser-output .sidebar-below{padding:0.3em 0.8em;font-weight:bold}.mw-parser-output .sidebar-collapse .sidebar-above,.mw-parser-output .sidebar-collapse .sidebar-below{border-top:1px solid #aaa;border-bottom:1px solid #aaa}.mw-parser-output .sidebar-navbar{text-align:right;font-size:115%;padding:0 0.4em 0.4em}.mw-parser-output .sidebar-list-title{padding:0 0.4em;text-align:left;font-weight:bold;line-height:1.6em;font-size:105%}.mw-parser-output .sidebar-list-title-c{padding:0 0.4em;text-align:center;margin:0 3.3em}@media(max-width:640px){body.mediawiki .mw-parser-output .sidebar{width:100%!important;clear:both;float:none!important;margin-left:0!important;margin-right:0!important}}body.skin--responsive .mw-parser-output .sidebar a>img{max-width:none!important}@media screen{html.skin-theme-clientpref-night .mw-parser-output .sidebar:not(.notheme) .sidebar-list-title,html.skin-theme-clientpref-night .mw-parser-output .sidebar:not(.notheme) .sidebar-title-with-pretitle{background:transparent!important}html.skin-theme-clientpref-night .mw-parser-output .sidebar:not(.notheme) .sidebar-title-with-pretitle a{color:var(--color-progressive)!important}}@media screen and (prefers-color-scheme:dark){html.skin-theme-clientpref-os .mw-parser-output .sidebar:not(.notheme) .sidebar-list-title,html.skin-theme-clientpref-os .mw-parser-output .sidebar:not(.notheme) .sidebar-title-with-pretitle{background:transparent!important}html.skin-theme-clientpref-os .mw-parser-output .sidebar:not(.notheme) .sidebar-title-with-pretitle a{color:var(--color-progressive)!important}}@media print{body.ns-0 .mw-parser-output .sidebar{display:none!important}}</style><style data-mw-deduplicate="TemplateStyles:r1232920458">.mw-parser-output .centralized-discussion{width:45%;min-width:10em;border:1px solid var(--border-color-base,#a2a9b1);font-weight:bold;background-color:var(--background-color-base,#fff);color:var(--color-base,#202122);font-size:100%;padding:0;line-height:inherit;display:block}body.skin-minerva .mw-parser-output .centralized-discussion{display:block!important}.mw-parser-output .centralized-discussion-center{float:none;clear:both;margin:0 auto}.mw-parser-output .centralized-discussion-title{background-color:#D6EFFC;padding:3px 5px;font-size:larger}.mw-parser-output .centralized-discussion-image{border-bottom:1px solid var(--border-color-base,#a2a9b1);padding:3px 5px}.mw-parser-output .centralized-discussion-vps{background-color:#D6EFFC;font-size:85%;padding-bottom:0.2em}.mw-parser-output .centralized-discussion-list{border-top:1px solid var(--border-color-base,#a2a9b1);font-size:90%;font-weight:normal;text-align:left}.mw-parser-output .centralized-discussion-local{margin:0 5px}.mw-parser-output .centralized-discussion-meta{border-top:1px solid var(--border-color-base,#a2a9b1);margin:0 5px}.mw-parser-output .centralized-discussion-ongoing{padding-bottom:0.2em;line-height:1.3em;border-top:1px solid var(--border-color-base,#a2a9b1);font-style:italic;font-weight:bold;text-align:center}.mw-parser-output .centralized-discussion-navbar{border-top:1px solid var(--border-color-base,#a2a9b1);background-color:#D6EFFC;padding:0 5px;font-size:85%;text-align:center}html.skin-theme-clientpref-night .mw-parser-output .centralized-discussion-title,html.skin-theme-clientpref-night .mw-parser-output .centralized-discussion-vps,html.skin-theme-clientpref-night .mw-parser-output .centralized-discussion-navbar{background-color:#082849}html.skin-theme-clientpref-night .mw-parser-output .centralized-discussion-image{filter:brightness(0.6)}@media screen and (prefers-color-scheme:dark){html.skin-theme-clientpref-os .mw-parser-output .centralized-discussion-title,html.skin-theme-clientpref-os .mw-parser-output .centralized-discussion-vps,html.skin-theme-clientpref-os .mw-parser-output .centralized-discussion-navbar{background-color:#082849}html.skin-theme-clientpref-os .mw-parser-output .centralized-discussion-image{filter:brightness(0.6)}}</style> <div role="navigation" aria-label="centralized-discussion-label" class="sidebar sidebar-wraplinks centralized-discussion sidebar-left"> <div id="centralized-discussion-label" class="centralized-discussion-title"><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Centralized_discussion" title="Wikipedia:Centralized discussion">Centralized discussion</a></div> <div class="centralized-discussion-list"> <div class="centralized-discussion-local"> <ul><li>A <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Requests_for_adminship#About_RfB" title="Wikipedia:Requests for adminship">request for bureaucratship</a> is open for discussion.</li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Requests_for_comment/AI_images#Relist_with_broader_question:_Ban_all_AI_images?" title="Wikipedia:Requests for comment/AI images">Banning AI-generated images in articles</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Requests_for_adminship/2024_review/Phase_III/Administrator_elections" title="Wikipedia:Requests for adminship/2024 review/Phase III/Administrator elections">Future administrator elections</a></li></ul> </div> </div> </div> <div style="float: right; clear: right; margin: 0 0 1em 1em; text-align: right"> <table class="noprint skin-invert" style="background-color: #fdfdfd; clear: both; padding: 1px; box-sizing: border-box; border: 1px solid #a2a9b1; font-size:88%; line-height:1.2em; margin:0; width:auto; text-align:center"> <caption>Noticeboard archives </caption> <tbody><tr> <th style="background-color: #ccf; font-size: 111%; line-height: 1.25em;" colspan="10"><a class="mw-selflink selflink">Administrators'</a> (<a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Archives" title="Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Archives">archives</a>, <a href="/wiki/Template:Administrators%27_noticeboard_archives/Search" title="Template:Administrators' noticeboard archives/Search">search</a>) </th></tr> <tr> <td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Archive350" title="Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Archive350">350</a> </td> <td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Archive351" title="Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Archive351">351</a> </td> <td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Archive352" title="Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Archive352">352</a> </td> <td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Archive353" title="Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Archive353">353</a> </td> <td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Archive354" title="Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Archive354">354</a> </td> <td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Archive355" title="Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Archive355">355</a> </td> <td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Archive356" title="Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Archive356">356</a> </td> <td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Archive357" title="Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Archive357">357</a> </td> <td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Archive358" title="Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Archive358">358</a> </td> <td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Archive359" title="Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Archive359">359</a> </td></tr> <tr> <td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Archive360" title="Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Archive360">360</a> </td> <td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Archive361" title="Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Archive361">361</a> </td> <td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Archive362" title="Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Archive362">362</a> </td> <td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Archive363" title="Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Archive363">363</a> </td> <td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Archive364" title="Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Archive364">364</a> </td> <td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Archive365" title="Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Archive365">365</a> </td> <td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Archive366" title="Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Archive366">366</a> </td> <td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Archive367" title="Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Archive367">367</a> </td> <td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Archive368" title="Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Archive368">368</a> </td> <td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Archive369" title="Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Archive369">369</a> </td></tr> <tr> <th style="background-color: #ccf; font-size: 111%; line-height: 1.25em;" colspan="10"><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Incidents" title="Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents">Incidents</a> (<a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/IncidentArchives" title="Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/IncidentArchives">archives</a>, <a href="/wiki/Template:Administrators%27_noticeboard_archives/Search" title="Template:Administrators' noticeboard archives/Search">search</a>) </th></tr> <tr> <td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/IncidentArchive1162" title="Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/IncidentArchive1162">1162</a> </td> <td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/IncidentArchive1163" title="Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/IncidentArchive1163">1163</a> </td> <td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/IncidentArchive1164" title="Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/IncidentArchive1164">1164</a> </td> <td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/IncidentArchive1165" title="Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/IncidentArchive1165">1165</a> </td> <td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/IncidentArchive1166" title="Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/IncidentArchive1166">1166</a> </td> <td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/IncidentArchive1167" title="Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/IncidentArchive1167">1167</a> </td> <td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/IncidentArchive1168" title="Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/IncidentArchive1168">1168</a> </td> <td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/IncidentArchive1169" title="Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/IncidentArchive1169">1169</a> </td> <td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/IncidentArchive1170" title="Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/IncidentArchive1170">1170</a> </td> <td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/IncidentArchive1171" title="Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/IncidentArchive1171">1171</a> </td></tr> <tr> <td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/IncidentArchive1172" title="Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/IncidentArchive1172">1172</a> </td> <td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/IncidentArchive1173" title="Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/IncidentArchive1173">1173</a> </td> <td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/IncidentArchive1174" title="Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/IncidentArchive1174">1174</a> </td> <td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/IncidentArchive1175" title="Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/IncidentArchive1175">1175</a> </td> <td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/IncidentArchive1176" title="Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/IncidentArchive1176">1176</a> </td> <td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/IncidentArchive1177" title="Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/IncidentArchive1177">1177</a> </td> <td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/IncidentArchive1178" title="Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/IncidentArchive1178">1178</a> </td> <td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/IncidentArchive1179" title="Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/IncidentArchive1179">1179</a> </td> <td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/IncidentArchive1180" title="Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/IncidentArchive1180">1180</a> </td> <td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/IncidentArchive1181" title="Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/IncidentArchive1181">1181</a> </td></tr> <tr> <th style="background-color: #ccf; font-size: 111%; line-height: 1.25em;" colspan="10"><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Edit_warring" title="Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Edit warring">Edit-warring/3RR</a> (<a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/3RRArchives" title="Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/3RRArchives">archives</a>, <a href="/wiki/Template:Administrators%27_noticeboard_archives/Search" title="Template:Administrators' noticeboard archives/Search">search</a>) </th></tr> <tr> <td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/3RRArchive474" title="Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/3RRArchive474">474</a> </td> <td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/3RRArchive475" title="Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/3RRArchive475">475</a> </td> <td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/3RRArchive476" title="Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/3RRArchive476">476</a> </td> <td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/3RRArchive477" title="Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/3RRArchive477">477</a> </td> <td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/3RRArchive478" title="Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/3RRArchive478">478</a> </td> <td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/3RRArchive479" title="Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/3RRArchive479">479</a> </td> <td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/3RRArchive480" title="Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/3RRArchive480">480</a> </td> <td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/3RRArchive481" title="Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/3RRArchive481">481</a> </td> <td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/3RRArchive482" title="Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/3RRArchive482">482</a> </td> <td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/3RRArchive483" title="Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/3RRArchive483">483</a> </td></tr> <tr> <td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/3RRArchive484" title="Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/3RRArchive484">484</a> </td> <td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/3RRArchive485" title="Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/3RRArchive485">485</a> </td> <td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/3RRArchive486" title="Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/3RRArchive486">486</a> </td> <td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/3RRArchive487" title="Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/3RRArchive487">487</a> </td> <td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/3RRArchive488" title="Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/3RRArchive488">488</a> </td> <td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/3RRArchive489" title="Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/3RRArchive489">489</a> </td> <td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/3RRArchive490" title="Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/3RRArchive490">490</a> </td> <td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/3RRArchive491" title="Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/3RRArchive491">491</a> </td> <td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/3RRArchive492" title="Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/3RRArchive492">492</a> </td> <td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/3RRArchive493" title="Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/3RRArchive493">493</a> </td></tr> <tr> <th style="background-color: #ccf; font-size: 111%; line-height: 1.25em;" colspan="10"><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement">Arbitration enforcement</a> (<a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive">archives</a>) </th></tr> <tr> <td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive330" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive330">330</a> </td> <td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive331" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive331">331</a> </td> <td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive332" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive332">332</a> </td> <td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive333" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive333">333</a> </td> <td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive334" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive334">334</a> </td> <td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive335" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive335">335</a> </td> <td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive336" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive336">336</a> </td> <td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive337" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive337">337</a> </td> <td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive338" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive338">338</a> </td> <td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive339" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive339">339</a> </td></tr> <tr> <td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive340" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive340">340</a> </td> <td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive341" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive341">341</a> </td> <td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive342" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive342">342</a> </td> <td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive343" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive343">343</a> </td> <td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive344" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive344">344</a> </td> <td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive345" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive345">345</a> </td> <td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive346" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive346">346</a> </td> <td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive347" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive347">347</a> </td> <td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive348" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive348">348</a> </td> <td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive349" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive349">349</a> </td></tr> <tr> <th style="background-color: #ccf; font-size: 111%; line-height: 1.25em;" colspan="10">Other links </th></tr> <tr> <td colspan="10" style="text-align: center;"><link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1129693374" /><div class="hlist"><ul><li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Administrators%27_noticeboard" title="Wikipedia talk:Administrators' noticeboard">Talk</a></li><li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Sockpuppet_investigations" title="Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations">Sockpuppet investigations</a></li><li><a href="/wiki/Category:Administrative_backlog" title="Category:Administrative backlog">Backlog</a></li></ul></div> </td></tr> <tr> <th colspan="10" style="white-space: nowrap;"><div class="mw-inputbox-centered" style=""><form name="searchbox" class="searchbox mw-inputbox-form-inline" action="/wiki/Special:Search"><div class="cdx-text-input"><input class="mw-searchInput searchboxInput cdx-text-input__input" name="search" placeholder="Search noticeboards archives" size="32" dir="ltr" /></div><input type="hidden" value="Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard" name="prefix" /> <input type="submit" name="fulltext" value="Search" class="cdx-button" /><input type="hidden" value="Search" name="fulltext" /></form></div> </th></tr></tbody></table> </div> <div style="clear:both;" class=""></div> <style data-mw-deduplicate="TemplateStyles:r1158435425">.mw-parser-output .xfd-backlog{font-size:92%;text-align:center}.mw-parser-output .xfd-backlog tr td:last-child{font-weight:bold}@media(min-width:720px){.mw-parser-output .xfd-backlog{width:20em;margin:0 1em 1em 1em}.mw-parser-output .xfd-backlog-right{float:right;margin:0 0 1em 1em;clear:right}.mw-parser-output .xfd-backlog-left{float:left;margin:0 1em 1em 0}}</style> <table class="wikitable xfd-backlog xfd-backlog-left"> <caption>XFD backlog </caption> <tbody><tr> <th scope="col"><abbr title="Venue">V</abbr> </th> <th scope="col">Dec </th> <th scope="col">Jan </th> <th scope="col">Feb </th> <th scope="col">Mar </th> <th scope="col">Total </th></tr> <tr> <th scope="row"><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion" title="Wikipedia:Categories for discussion">CfD</a> </th> <td>0 </td> <td>0 </td> <td>39 </td> <td>0 </td> <td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion#Discussions_awaiting_closure" title="Wikipedia:Categories for discussion">39</a> </td></tr> <tr> <th scope="row"><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Templates_for_discussion" title="Wikipedia:Templates for discussion">TfD</a> </th> <td>0 </td> <td>0 </td> <td>13 </td> <td>0 </td> <td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Templates_for_discussion#Old_discussions" title="Wikipedia:Templates for discussion">13</a> </td></tr> <tr> <th scope="row"><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Miscellany_for_deletion" title="Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion">MfD</a> </th> <td>0 </td> <td>0 </td> <td>6 </td> <td>0 </td> <td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Miscellany_for_deletion#Old_business" title="Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion">6</a> </td></tr> <tr> <th scope="row"><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Files_for_discussion" title="Wikipedia:Files for discussion">FfD</a> </th> <td>0 </td> <td>0 </td> <td>1 </td> <td>0 </td> <td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Files_for_discussion#Old_discussions" title="Wikipedia:Files for discussion">1</a> </td></tr> <tr> <th scope="row"><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Redirects_for_discussion" title="Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion">RfD</a> </th> <td>0 </td> <td>0 </td> <td>73 </td> <td>0 </td> <td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Redirects_for_discussion#February_23" title="Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion">73</a> </td></tr> <tr> <th scope="row"><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion" title="Wikipedia:Articles for deletion">AfD</a> </th> <td>0 </td> <td>0 </td> <td>9 </td> <td>0 </td> <td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion#Old_discussions_(open)" title="Wikipedia:Articles for deletion">9</a> </td></tr></tbody></table> <style data-mw-deduplicate="TemplateStyles:r1184024115">.mw-parser-output .div-col{margin-top:0.3em;column-width:30em}.mw-parser-output .div-col-small{font-size:90%}.mw-parser-output .div-col-rules{column-rule:1px solid #aaa}.mw-parser-output .div-col dl,.mw-parser-output .div-col ol,.mw-parser-output .div-col ul{margin-top:0}.mw-parser-output .div-col li,.mw-parser-output .div-col dd{page-break-inside:avoid;break-inside:avoid-column}</style><div class="div-col" style="column-width: 20em;"> <ul><li>19 <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Usernames_for_administrator_attention/Bot" title="Wikipedia:Usernames for administrator attention/Bot">bot-reported usernames for administrator attention</a></li> <li>5 <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Usernames_for_administrator_attention" title="Wikipedia:Usernames for administrator attention">user-reported usernames for administrator attention</a></li> <li>0 <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrator_intervention_against_vandalism/TB2" title="Wikipedia:Administrator intervention against vandalism/TB2">bot-generated requests for intervention against vandalism</a></li> <li>1 <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrator_intervention_against_vandalism" title="Wikipedia:Administrator intervention against vandalism">user-generated requests for intervention against vandalism</a></li> <li>101 <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Sockpuppet_investigations" title="Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations">sockpuppet investigations</a></li> <li>10 <a href="/wiki/Category:Candidates_for_speedy_deletion" title="Category:Candidates for speedy deletion">Candidates for speedy deletion</a></li> <li>3 <a href="/wiki/User:AnomieBOT/PERTable" title="User:AnomieBOT/PERTable">Fully protected edit requests</a></li> <li>0 <a href="/wiki/Category:Candidates_for_history_merging" title="Category:Candidates for history merging">Candidates for history merging</a></li> <li>0 <a href="/wiki/Category:Requested_RD1_redactions" title="Category:Requested RD1 redactions">requests for RD1 redaction</a></li> <li>63 <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Requested_moves/Current_discussions#Elapsed_listings" title="Wikipedia:Requested moves/Current discussions">elapsed requested moves</a></li> <li>8 <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Move_review#Active_discussions" title="Wikipedia:Move review">Pages at move review</a></li> <li>12 <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Closure_requests" title="Wikipedia:Closure requests">requested closures</a></li> <li>39 <a href="/wiki/Category:Requests_for_unblock" title="Category:Requests for unblock">requests for unblock</a></li> <li>0 <a href="/wiki/Category:Wikipedians_looking_for_help_from_administrators" title="Category:Wikipedians looking for help from administrators">Wikipedians looking for help from administrators</a></li> <li>24 <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Copyright_problems" title="Wikipedia:Copyright problems">Copyright problems</a></li></ul> </div> <div style="clear:both;" class=""></div> <meta property="mw:PageProp/toc" /> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Arbitration_enforcement_action_appeal_by_Dev0745" data-mw-thread-id="h-Arbitration_enforcement_action_appeal_by_Dev0745-20250213021300">Arbitration enforcement action appeal by Dev0745</h2>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard&action=edit&section=2" title="Edit section: Arbitration enforcement action appeal by Dev0745">edit</a>]<div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <style data-mw-deduplicate="TemplateStyles:r1250141580">.mw-parser-output .archive-top{background-color:#EDEAFF;color:inherit;padding:0 0.6em;border:1px solid #8779DD}.mw-parser-output .archive-top-result .side-box-abovebelow{background-color:#c3c3c3;color:inherit;text-align:center;font-size:110%;font-weight:bold}@media screen{html.skin-theme-clientpref-night .mw-parser-output .archive-top{background-color:#181424;border:1px solid #8072d6;color:#fff}html.skin-theme-clientpref-night .mw-parser-output .archive-top-result .side-box-abovebelow{background-color:#141126;color:#fff}}@media screen and (prefers-color-scheme:dark){html.skin-theme-clientpref-os .mw-parser-output .archive-top{background-color:#181424;border:1px solid #8072d6;color:#fff}html.skin-theme-clientpref-os .mw-parser-output .archive-top-result .side-box-abovebelow{background-color:#141126;color:#fff}}@media(min-width:640px){.mw-parser-output .archive-top-result{width:30%}}</style><div class="boilerplate archived archive-top mw-archivedtalk" style=""><style data-mw-deduplicate="TemplateStyles:r1235681985">.mw-parser-output .side-box{margin:4px 0;box-sizing:border-box;border:1px solid #aaa;font-size:88%;line-height:1.25em;background-color:var(--background-color-interactive-subtle,#f8f9fa);display:flow-root}.mw-parser-output .side-box-abovebelow,.mw-parser-output .side-box-text{padding:0.25em 0.9em}.mw-parser-output .side-box-image{padding:2px 0 2px 0.9em;text-align:center}.mw-parser-output .side-box-imageright{padding:2px 0.9em 2px 0;text-align:center}@media(min-width:500px){.mw-parser-output .side-box-flex{display:flex;align-items:center}.mw-parser-output .side-box-text{flex:1;min-width:0}}@media(min-width:720px){.mw-parser-output .side-box{width:238px}.mw-parser-output .side-box-right{clear:right;float:right;margin-left:1em}.mw-parser-output .side-box-left{margin-right:1em}}</style><div class="side-box metadata side-box-right archive-top-result" style="padding: 10px; line-height: inherit;"> <div class="side-box-abovebelow" style="padding: 0;"> APPEAL UNSUCCESSFUL</div> <div class="side-box-flex"> <div class="side-box-text" style="padding: 0;">By consensus of the community and admission of the requestor, the topic ban is not lifted. - <a href="/wiki/User:The_Bushranger" title="User:The Bushranger">The Bushranger</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:The_Bushranger" title="User talk:The Bushranger">One ping only</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-The_Bushranger-20250226233000-Arbitration_enforcement_action_appeal_by_Dev0745" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:30, 26 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</div></div> </div> <div class="boilerplate-header" style="margin-left: 1.6em; font-style: italic;"> The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion. </div> <hr /> Procedural notes: Per the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration_Committee/Procedures#Enforcement" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration Committee/Procedures">rules governing arbitration enforcement appeals</a>, a "clear and substantial consensus of uninvolved editors" is required to overturn an arbitration enforcement action. To help determine any such consensus, involved editors may make brief statements in separate sections. Other editors may comment below. Editors are normally considered involved if they are in a current dispute with the sanctioning or sanctioned editor, or have taken part in disputes (if any) related to the contested enforcement action. Administrators having taken administrative actions are not normally considered involved for this reason alone (see <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:UNINVOLVED" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:UNINVOLVED">WP:UNINVOLVED</a>). <dl><dt>Appealing user</dt> <dd><a href="/wiki/User:Dev0745" title="User:Dev0745">Dev0745</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Dev0745" title="User talk:Dev0745">talk</a> · <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Dev0745" title="Special:Contributions/Dev0745">contribs</a> · <a href="/wiki/Special:DeletedContributions/Dev0745" title="Special:DeletedContributions/Dev0745">deleted contribs</a> · <a href="/wiki/Special:Log/Dev0745" title="Special:Log/Dev0745">logs</a> · <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3AAbuseLog&wpSearchUser=Dev0745">filter log</a> · <a href="/wiki/Special:Block/Dev0745" title="Special:Block/Dev0745">block user</a> · <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3ALog%2Fblock&page=User%3ADev0745">block log</a>)</dd></dl> <dl><dt>Sanction being appealed</dt> <dd>Per <a href="/wiki/Special:PermanentLink/1267943278#Dev0745:_accept_fait_accompli,_or_indef?" title="Special:PermanentLink/1267943278">informal admin colloquy</a>, it is noted that Dev0745's edits since [the earlier, broader] topic ban's imposition have largely violated it, but also largely been acceptable, and as such imposing a sanction for these violations would not serve a preventative purpose. Instead, the ban is narrowed to all pages related to politics, religion, and culture in India and Pakistan, broadly construed; Dev0745 is warned that this new scope covers some of the edits they had been making, which they must take care to avoid in the future.</dd></dl> <dl><dt>Administrator imposing the sanction</dt> <dd><a href="/wiki/User:Tamzin" title="User:Tamzin">Tamzin</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Tamzin" title="User talk:Tamzin">talk</a> · <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Tamzin" title="Special:Contributions/Tamzin">contribs</a> · <a href="/wiki/Special:Log/block/Tamzin" title="Special:Log/block/Tamzin">blocks</a> · <a href="/wiki/Special:Log/protect/Tamzin" title="Special:Log/protect/Tamzin">protections</a> · <a href="/wiki/Special:Log/delete/Tamzin" title="Special:Log/delete/Tamzin">deletions</a> · <a href="/wiki/Special:Log/move/Tamzin" title="Special:Log/move/Tamzin">page moves</a> · <a href="/wiki/Special:Log/rights/Tamzin" title="Special:Log/rights/Tamzin">rights</a> · <a href="/wiki/Special:PrefixIndex/Wikipedia:Requests_for_adminship/Tamzin" title="Special:PrefixIndex/Wikipedia:Requests for adminship/Tamzin">RfA</a>)</dd></dl> <dl><dt>Notification of that administrator</dt> <dd>Waived. -- <a href="/wiki/User:Tamzin" title="User:Tamzin">Tamzin</a>[<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Tamzin" title="User talk:Tamzin">cetacean needed</a>] (<a href="/wiki/User:Tamzin/%F0%9F%A4%B7" class="mw-redirect" title="User:Tamzin/🤷">they|xe|🤷</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Tamzin-20250213044600-Arbitration_enforcement_action_appeal_by_Dev0745" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">04:46, 13 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading3"><h3 id="Statement_by_Dev0745" data-mw-thread-id="h-Statement_by_Dev0745-Arbitration_enforcement_action_appeal_by_Dev0745-20250213021300">Statement by Dev0745</h3>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard&action=edit&section=3" title="Edit section: Statement by Dev0745">edit</a>]</div> Hello, I got banned by <a href="/wiki/User:Tamzin" title="User:Tamzin">Tamzin</a> on 10 May 2023 for continued use of low-quality sources, misrepresentation of sources, and improper synthesis of sources. See <a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.m.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Dev0745&diff=prev&oldid=1154177443">[1]</a>. Since then I have learned considerably about how to find proper sources. Then, Tamzin narrowed the ban to all pages related to politics, religion, and culture in India and Pakistan, broadly construed on 11 January 2025. See <a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.m.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?diff=1268853743&markasread=333506967&markasreadwiki=enwiki&oldid=prev&title=Wikipedia:Arbitration_enforcement_log/2023">[2]</a>. I request to uplift the ban from all pages related to politics, religion, and culture in India and Pakistan since I have learned considerably about how to find proper sources and write them. <a href="/wiki/User:Dev0745" title="User:Dev0745">Dev0745</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Dev0745" title="User talk:Dev0745">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Dev0745-20250213021300-Statement_by_Dev0745" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:13, 13 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd><dl><dd><a href="/wiki/User:Tamzin" title="User:Tamzin">Tamzin</a>, In the article of <a href="/wiki/Love_jihad" class="mw-redirect" title="Love jihad">love jihad</a>, what I wrote was that <a href="/wiki/Popular_Front_of_India" title="Popular Front of India">Popular Front of India</a> was under scanner by NIA for conversion cases. Later banned for links with SIMI, a terrorist group banned by Indian government which were clearly mentioned in those articles. Whether they found any evidence of love jihad or evidence of coercion is different thing. I was only mentioned they were under investigation by NIA for conversion in 2017. Later banned for links with terrorist groups in 2021. I don't know that not writing about India Today media report of not finding coercion is against Wikipedia policy. I will ensure that I will follow Wikipedia policy properly. <a href="/wiki/User:Dev0745" title="User:Dev0745">Dev0745</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Dev0745" title="User talk:Dev0745">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Dev0745-20250215053400-Dev0745-20250213021300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">05:34, 15 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd> <dd>PFI do conversion by running centre to convert non-muslim by indoctrination as per NIA. see news articles:<a rel="nofollow" class="external autonumber" href="https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/pfi-run-centre-indoctrinated-recruits-with-hypnosis-nia/articleshow/63251998.cms">[3]</a>, <a rel="nofollow" class="external autonumber" href="https://www.udayavani.com/english-news/mangaluru-pfi-operated-shaheen-gang-to-carryout-love-jihad-says-nia">[4]</a>, <a rel="nofollow" class="external autonumber" href="https://m.economictimes.com/news/india/explainer-what-is-the-pfi-and-why-it-is-perceived-as-a-threat/articleshow/94584378.cms">[5]</a>, <a rel="nofollow" class="external autonumber" href="https://m.economictimes.com/news/india/pfis-real-objective-is-to-carry-out-jihad-wage-a-civil-war-ed/articleshow/114381707.cms">[6]</a>. Religious conversion is not a crime in India unless it is force conversion.</dd></dl></dd></dl> <dl><dd><a href="/wiki/User:Rsjaffe" title="User:Rsjaffe">Rsjaffe</a> is saying that I wrote PFI was under scanner for love jihad cases. Actually I wrote PFI was scanner for conversion cases. The Wikimedia page love jihad mentioned incident of 2017 where NIA didn't find any organised plan of conversion and not mentioned about ban of PFI in 2022 for links with Terrorist groups. So I wrote PFI was under scanner for conversion cases in 2017. And later got banned in 2022 for links with terrorist groups. I have accepted by fault, if that was violation of Wikimedia policy due to ommison of not finding coercion in conversion by NIA. <a href="/wiki/User:Dev0745" title="User:Dev0745">Dev0745</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Dev0745" title="User talk:Dev0745">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Dev0745-20250217051700-Dev0745-20250213021300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">05:17, 17 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd><a href="/wiki/User:Bonadea" title="User:Bonadea">Bonadea</a>, I accepted that I have done mistake by ommison. In original edit, I wrote that PFI was under scanner for conversion. But I written love jihad in palce of conversion in appeal section as I didn't written exact sentence which I have written in love jihad article page. I have been banned since 10 May 2023 and learned considerably about finding reliable sources and will try to follow Wikipedia policy. I want unban from religion, politics and culture related articles. But if you guys are not in favour unbanning from all banned articles, at least unban from politics and culture related articles. Thanks. <a href="/wiki/User:Dev0745" title="User:Dev0745">Dev0745</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Dev0745" title="User talk:Dev0745">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Dev0745-20250218105700-Dev0745-20250217051700" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">10:57, 18 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>I didn't know that discussion in talk page is also ban and creating page about singer is also ban. I thought person or biographical articles including plaback singer don't fall under politics, religion culture related articles. In India, generally cinema don't represent tradition. There is overlap between tradition and culture. I thought cinema is not part of culture, but I was wrong as tradition and culture and different thing. Now I am thinking that I am banned from page related to Culture which I earlier thought include tradition and religion. But Culture include wide range of topics including Sports, Media which also includes Cinema, Philosophy, Education which never thought. <a href="/wiki/User:Dev0745" title="User:Dev0745">Dev0745</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Dev0745" title="User talk:Dev0745">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Dev0745-20250220082500-Dev0745-20250218105700" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">08:25, 20 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd>I realised my mistakes that I have not followed topic ban properly due to my ignorance. Here most Admin are against unban due to this reason. I will appeal again next year. Thanks to everyone. <a href="/wiki/User:Dev0745" title="User:Dev0745">Dev0745</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Dev0745" title="User talk:Dev0745">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Dev0745-20250225160300-Dev0745-20250217051700" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:03, 25 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading3"><h3 id="Statement_by_Tamzin" data-mw-thread-id="h-Statement_by_Tamzin-Arbitration_enforcement_action_appeal_by_Dev0745-20250213044600">Statement by Tamzin</h3>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard&action=edit&section=4" title="Edit section: Statement by Tamzin">edit</a>]</div> <ul><li>No comment at this time, other than to note <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Archive352#Review_of_Topic_ban_(Dev0745)" title="Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Archive352">the previous unsuccessful appeal</a>. That was filed shortly after the initial ban, so shouldn't have much bearing now, but still ought to be noted. Also, this was posted without using <a href="/wiki/Template:Arbitration_enforcement_appeal" title="Template:Arbitration enforcement appeal">the template</a> that ArbCom requires, so I've taken the liberty of fixing that. -- <a href="/wiki/User:Tamzin" title="User:Tamzin">Tamzin</a>[<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Tamzin" title="User talk:Tamzin">cetacean needed</a>] (<a href="/wiki/User:Tamzin/%F0%9F%A4%B7" class="mw-redirect" title="User:Tamzin/🤷">they|xe|🤷</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Tamzin-20250213044600-Statement_by_Tamzin" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">04:46, 13 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Oh also, courtesy pings to @<a href="/wiki/User:Bishonen" title="User:Bishonen">Bishonen</a> and @<a href="/wiki/User:RegentsPark" title="User:RegentsPark">RegentsPark</a> per involvement in <a href="/wiki/Special:PermanentLink/1267943278#Dev0745:_accept_fait_accompli,_or_indef?" title="Special:PermanentLink/1267943278">Special:Permalink/1267943278 § Dev0745: accept fait accompli, or indef?</a>. -- <a href="/wiki/User:Tamzin" title="User:Tamzin">Tamzin</a>[<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Tamzin" title="User talk:Tamzin">cetacean needed</a>] (<a href="/wiki/User:Tamzin/%F0%9F%A4%B7" class="mw-redirect" title="User:Tamzin/🤷">they|xe|🤷</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Tamzin-20250213044800-Tamzin-20250213044600" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">04:48, 13 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:Liz" title="User:Liz">Liz</a>: I imposed the TBAN as an individual admin action for reasons explained initially <a href="/wiki/Special:PermanentLink/1154177567#Notice_that_you_are_now_subject_to_an_arbitration_enforcement_sanction" title="Special:PermanentLink/1154177567">here</a> and at greater length <a href="/wiki/Special:Diff/1154188162" title="Special:Diff/1154188162">here</a>. -- <a href="/wiki/User:Tamzin" title="User:Tamzin">Tamzin</a>[<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Tamzin" title="User talk:Tamzin">cetacean needed</a>] (<a href="/wiki/User:Tamzin/%F0%9F%A4%B7" class="mw-redirect" title="User:Tamzin/🤷">they|xe|🤷</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Tamzin-20250213071900-Tamzin-20250213044800" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">07:19, 13 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:Dev0745" title="User:Dev0745">Dev0745</a>: Since no one's supported or opposed yet, I'll try to get the ball rolling. In my mind, the biggest issue with your conduct was that you <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Love_jihad_conspiracy_theory&diff=prev&oldid=1154175686">wrote</a> <style data-mw-deduplicate="TemplateStyles:r1248585704">@media screen{html.skin-theme-clientpref-night .mw-parser-output .inline-quote-talk{color:#00B785}}@media screen and (prefers-color-scheme:dark){html.skin-theme-clientpref-os .mw-parser-output .inline-quote-talk{color:#00B785}}.mw-parser-output .inline-quote-talk{font-family:Georgia,"DejaVu Serif",serif;color:#008560;quotes:none}.mw-parser-output .inline-quote-talk-italic{font-family:inherit;font-style:italic}.mw-parser-output .inline-quote-talk-marks{quotes:"\"""\""}</style><q class="inline-quote-talk inline-quote-talk-marks">In 2017, PFI was under scanner of <a href="/wiki/National_Investigation_Agency" title="National Investigation Agency">National Investigation Agency</a> for carrying out conversion of hindu women and marrying them to muslim men</q>, citing <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://theprint.in/india/what-is-pfi-how-its-linked-to-banned-terror-outfit-simi-why-its-on-every-agencys-hit-list/1138862/">a source</a> that includes the sentence <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1248585704" /><q class="inline-quote-talk inline-quote-talk-marks">However, the agency concluded its probe in October 2018 after it found no 'evidence of coercion' that could result in prosecution</q>, a fact you completely omitted from your edit. In your first appeal, your response to the charge of misrepresentation by omission was <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1248585704" /><q class="inline-quote-talk inline-quote-talk-marks">I never read it at any Wikipedia policy</q>, which triggered <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Archive352#c-192.76.8.84-20230512164500-Dev0745-20230512053200" title="Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Archive352">a rather incredulous response</a> from the Oxford IP: <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1248585704" /><q class="inline-quote-talk inline-quote-talk-marks">Do you seriously need 'don't misrepresent what sources say' to be spelled out in policy for you? I'm shocked, that is such a fundamental and common sense statement. If you genuinely didn't know that misrepresenting sources is wrong that points to there being serious <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:CIR" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:CIR">WP:CIR</a> issues at play here.</q><div class="paragraphbreak" style="margin-top:0.5em"></div>Two years later, do you feel you have a better grasp on why it's such a big deal to selectively omit details from a source like that? Do you think that, if unbanned, you could ensure you wouldn't repeat that behavior? -- <a href="/wiki/User:Tamzin" title="User:Tamzin">Tamzin</a>[<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Tamzin" title="User talk:Tamzin">cetacean needed</a>] (<a href="/wiki/User:Tamzin/%F0%9F%A4%B7" class="mw-redirect" title="User:Tamzin/🤷">they|xe|🤷</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Tamzin-20250215051200-Tamzin-20250213071900" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">05:12, 15 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:Dev0745" title="User:Dev0745">Dev0745</a>: Please don't edit comments people have replied to. Just make a new comment.<div class="paragraphbreak" style="margin-top:0.5em"></div>That said, based on <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard&diff=1277170407&oldid=1277164644">the edits Dev made</a>, which show Dev misunderstood the modified TBAN's scope, I don't think @<a href="/wiki/User:Pppery" title="User:Pppery">Pppery</a>'s proposal of an indef is needed. To be clear, Dev, "politics, religion, and culture" covers most human activity. The only reason I didn't word your ban as "human activity in India, Pakistan, and Afghanistan," was I didn't want to prevent you from discussing human impact or conservation efforts in the zoology articles you edit. But yeah, most things humans do are politics, religion, or culture. -- <a href="/wiki/User:Tamzin" title="User:Tamzin">Tamzin</a>[<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Tamzin" title="User talk:Tamzin">cetacean needed</a>] (<a href="/wiki/User:Tamzin/%F0%9F%A4%B7" class="mw-redirect" title="User:Tamzin/🤷">they|xe|🤷</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Tamzin-20250223025900-Tamzin-20250215051200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:59, 23 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></li></ul> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading3"><h3 id="Statement_by_(involved_editor_1)" data-mw-thread-id="h-Statement_by_(involved_editor_1)-Arbitration_enforcement_action_appeal_by_Dev0745">Statement by (involved editor 1)</h3>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard&action=edit&section=5" title="Edit section: Statement by (involved editor 1)">edit</a>]</div> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading3"><h3 id="Statement_by_(involved_editor_2)" data-mw-thread-id="h-Statement_by_(involved_editor_2)-Arbitration_enforcement_action_appeal_by_Dev0745">Statement by (involved editor 2)</h3>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard&action=edit&section=6" title="Edit section: Statement by (involved editor 2)">edit</a>]</div> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading3"><h3 id="Discussion_among_uninvolved_editors_about_the_appeal_by_Dev0745" data-mw-thread-id="h-Discussion_among_uninvolved_editors_about_the_appeal_by_Dev0745-Arbitration_enforcement_action_appeal_by_Dev0745-20250213071100">Discussion among uninvolved editors about the appeal by Dev0745</h3>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard&action=edit&section=7" title="Edit section: Discussion among uninvolved editors about the appeal by Dev0745">edit</a>]</div> <ul><li>I find it useful to have links to previous AE discussions so here are several, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive263#Dev0745" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive263">Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive263#Dev0745</a> and <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive313#Dev0745" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive313">Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive313#Dev0745</a>. It looks like the topic ban wasn't imposed as a result of an AE discussion. <a href="/wiki/User:Liz" title="User:Liz">Liz</a> <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Liz" title="Special:Contributions/Liz">Read!</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Liz" title="User talk:Liz">Talk!</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Liz-20250213071100-Discussion_among_uninvolved_editors_about_the_appeal_by_Dev0745" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">07:11, 13 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li></ul> <dl><dd><dl><dd>I think there is a general lack of admin activity and response to most discussion threads in AN that is disappointing. Or maybe I have higher expectations. There is also a decrease in activity I've noticed in AFDs. We seem to be seeing a decrease of editors in some very important areas of the project and it's not even the holidays or summer. <a href="/wiki/User:Liz" title="User:Liz">Liz</a> <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Liz" title="Special:Contributions/Liz">Read!</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Liz" title="User talk:Liz">Talk!</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Liz-20250215053900-Liz-20250213071100" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">05:39, 15 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd></dl> <ul><li>The sanctions were narrowed a month ago so this may be a bit too soon but I'm willing to give it a shot. The edits since the ban was narrowed appear to be mostly gnomish and what references I've seen look reasonable.<a href="/wiki/User:RegentsPark" title="User:RegentsPark">RegentsPark</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:RegentsPark" title="User talk:RegentsPark">comment</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-RegentsPark-20250216160700-Discussion_among_uninvolved_editors_about_the_appeal_by_Dev0745" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:07, 16 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li> <li>I find the reply to Tamzin's question about the Love Jihad article edits totally unsatisfactory. <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1248585704" /><q class="inline-quote-talk inline-quote-talk-marks">what I wrote was that Popular Front of India was under scanner by NIA for love jihad cases ... Whether they found any evidence of love jihad or evidence of coercion is different thing. I was only mentioned they were under investigation by NIA for conversion in 2017.</q> That is distortion by omission and I see no recognition of the problem by Dev0745. Given that, I am against the appeal. — <a href="/wiki/User:Rsjaffe" title="User:Rsjaffe">rsjaffe</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Rsjaffe" title="User talk:Rsjaffe">🗣️</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Rsjaffe-20250216200200-Discussion_among_uninvolved_editors_about_the_appeal_by_Dev0745" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:02, 16 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li> <li>I think the narrowed topic ban needs to remain, based on Dev0745's responses to Tamzin and rsjaffe above. <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1248585704" /><q class="inline-quote-talk">I don't know that not writing about India Today media report of not finding coercion is against Wikipedia policy.</q> doesn't do anything to convince me that they do understand what the problem is. An additional problem is the fact that Dev0745 edited their reply to Tamzin after rsjaffe had quoted it (<a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia%3AAdministrators%27_noticeboard&diff=1275809823&oldid=1275807447">Dev's original reply</a>, <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard&diff=prev&oldid=1276084011">rsjaffe's comment</a>, <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard&diff=prev&oldid=1276151514">Dev changes original reply</a>) and then <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard&diff=next&oldid=1276151514">accused rsjaffe of misquoting</a>. The basic meaning of the original response is the same whether Dev used the phrase "love jihad" or "conversion", and so the distortion-by-omission problem is still there, but it should be obvious to an editor with as much experience as Dev0745 has that tampering with a post that has been replied to is inappropriate. Tampering with a post that's been quoted, and saying that the quoting editor was wrong is more than inappropriate (and indeed another form of source misrepresentation!) --<a href="/wiki/User:Bonadea" title="User:Bonadea">bonadea</a> <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Bonadea" title="Special:Contributions/Bonadea">contributions</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Bonadea" title="User talk:Bonadea">talk</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Bonadea-20250217123400-Discussion_among_uninvolved_editors_about_the_appeal_by_Dev0745" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">12:34, 17 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Dev0745, you are topic banned from <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1248585704" /><q class="inline-quote-talk">all pages related to politics, religion, and culture in India and Pakistan, broadly construed</q><a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Arbitration_enforcement_log/2023&oldid=1268853743#Individual_sanctions_(IPA)">[7]</a>. And in <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?oldid=1267943278#Dev0745:_accept_fait_accompli,_or_indef?">this discussion</a> on <a href="/wiki/User:Bishonen" title="User:Bishonen">Bishonen</a>'s user talk page, <a href="/wiki/User:Tamzin" title="User:Tamzin">Tamzin</a> explicitly pointed out that the ban includes edits about tribes, and that you <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1248585704" /><q class="inline-quote-talk">need to stop editing about ethnic and social groups in India</q>. That linked discussion includes a post from 6 January where you acknowledged this limit. Since then, you have made almost 30 edits to <a href="/wiki/Talk:Kudmi_Mahato" title="Talk:Kudmi Mahato">Talk:Kudmi Mahato</a>, participating in multiple discussions about whether that community is a tribe or not: <a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk%3AKudmi_Mahato&diff=1276377006&oldid=1263609511">[8]</a>. Your argument about Raj-era ethnographers is valid, but that doesn't matter – a topic ban means that there shouldn't be any edits at all about social/tribal/caste/ethnic groups in India. Your topic ban includes culture in India, so the fact that you created a new article about an Indian singer (<a href="/wiki/Pawan_Roy" title="Pawan Roy">Pawan Roy</a>) today would also appear to be a topic ban violation. --<a href="/wiki/User:Bonadea" title="User:Bonadea">bonadea</a> <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Bonadea" title="Special:Contributions/Bonadea">contributions</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Bonadea" title="User talk:Bonadea">talk</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Bonadea-20250218162400-Bonadea-20250217123400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:24, 18 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></li> <li>Decline this appeal and indef Dev0745 for showing unwillingness to respect the topic ban in the first place. We've been fooled once before, we shouldn't be fooled again. <a href="/wiki/User:Pppery" title="User:Pppery">* Pppery *</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Pppery" title="User talk:Pppery">it has begun...</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Pppery-20250221043800-Discussion_among_uninvolved_editors_about_the_appeal_by_Dev0745" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">04:38, 21 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Replying to Tamzin above, I don't see how the edits Bonadea points out can be the result of a good faith misunderstanding. This is someone who was topic banned once, rampantly violated it, and managed by sheer luck to avoid being punished for that (I'm against the entire concept of adverse possession unblocks, by the way). And now they've squandered that chance by violating that topic ban again. Sorry, that's the end of the line for me. <a href="/wiki/User:Pppery" title="User:Pppery">* Pppery *</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Pppery" title="User talk:Pppery">it has begun...</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Pppery-20250223030500-Pppery-20250221043800" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">03:05, 23 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></li></ul> <div style="padding-left: 1.6em; font-style: italic; border-top: 1px solid #a2a9b1; margin: 0.5em 0; padding-top: 0.5em">The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.</div> </div><div style="clear:both;" class=""></div> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Banned_user_posting_from_an_IP_address" data-mw-thread-id="h-Banned_user_posting_from_an_IP_address-20250219130400">Banned user posting from an IP address</h2>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard&action=edit&section=8" title="Edit section: Banned user posting from an IP address">edit</a>]<div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1250141580" /><div class="boilerplate archived archive-top mw-archivedtalk" style=""><link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1235681985" /><div class="side-box metadata side-box-right archive-top-result" style="padding: 10px; line-height: inherit;"> <div class="side-box-abovebelow" style="padding: 0;"> STABLE AND BLOCKED</div> <div class="side-box-flex"> <div class="side-box-text" style="padding: 0;">Blocked for two years. - <a href="/wiki/User:The_Bushranger" title="User:The Bushranger">The Bushranger</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:The_Bushranger" title="User talk:The Bushranger">One ping only</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-The_Bushranger-20250225002600-Banned_user_posting_from_an_IP_address" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:26, 25 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</div></div> </div> <div class="boilerplate-header" style="margin-left: 1.6em; font-style: italic;"> The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion. </div> <hr /> Hello, I wanted to bring something to your attention. I noticed that an anonymous user posting from the IP address <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:32.209.69.24&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:32.209.69.24 (page does not exist)">32.209.69.24</a> is the banned user <a href="/wiki/User:Joseph_A._Spadaro" title="User:Joseph A. Spadaro">Joseph A. Spadaro</a>. The posting style and range of interests are unmistakable. I have already left a note on the IP's talk page. I also alerted an admin, Acroterion, who temporarily blocked the IP a few weeks ago. --<a href="/wiki/User:Viennese_Waltz" title="User:Viennese Waltz">Viennese Waltz</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Viennese_Waltz-20250219130400-Banned_user_posting_from_an_IP_address" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">13:04, 19 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd><a class="external text" href="https://intersect-contribs.toolforge.org/index.php?project=enwiki&namespaceFilter=all&users%5B%5D=32.209.69.24&users%5B%5D=Joseph+A.+Spadaro&users%5B%5D=&users%5B%5D=&users%5B%5D=&users%5B%5D=&users%5B%5D=&users%5B%5D=&sort=0">Yup</a>. <a href="/wiki/User:Polygnotus" title="User:Polygnotus">Polygnotus</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Polygnotus" title="User talk:Polygnotus">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Polygnotus-20250219155000-Viennese_Waltz-20250219130400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:50, 19 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Thank you, <a href="/wiki/User:Viennese_Waltz" title="User:Viennese Waltz">Viennese Waltz</a> and <a href="/wiki/User:Polygnotus" title="User:Polygnotus">Polygnotus</a>. I have blocked the IP address for two years. That's a long time to block an IP but I believe it is justified since Spadaro has been using this IP to evade his ban since December 2023, and has made well over 1000 edits from this IP. <a href="/wiki/User:Cullen328" title="User:Cullen328">Cullen328</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Cullen328" title="User talk:Cullen328">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Cullen328-20250220093500-Polygnotus-20250219155000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">09:35, 20 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd></dl> <div style="padding-left: 1.6em; font-style: italic; border-top: 1px solid #a2a9b1; margin: 0.5em 0; padding-top: 0.5em">The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.</div> </div><div style="clear:both;" class=""></div> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Query_regarding_MAB" data-mw-thread-id="h-Query_regarding_MAB-20250220024100">Query regarding MAB</h2>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard&action=edit&section=9" title="Edit section: Query regarding MAB">edit</a>]<div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1250141580" /><div class="boilerplate archived archive-top mw-archivedtalk" style=""><link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1235681985" /><div class="side-box metadata side-box-right archive-top-result" style="padding: 10px; line-height: inherit;"> <div class="side-box-flex"> <div class="side-box-text" style="padding: 0;">Closing this as there has been a lack of recent activity. I posted this query, hoping to establish a guideline for a normative block duration for a sockpuppet's IP accounts but found that the issue was more complicated than I expected. So, further discussion is unlikely to lead to a definitive and simple answer. <a href="/wiki/User:Liz" title="User:Liz">Liz</a> <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Liz" title="Special:Contributions/Liz">Read!</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Liz" title="User talk:Liz">Talk!</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Liz-20250224195500-Query_regarding_MAB" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:55, 24 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</div></div> </div> <div class="boilerplate-header" style="margin-left: 1.6em; font-style: italic;"> The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion. </div> <hr /> Hey, fellow admins, For some unknown reasons, I actually look at all of the IP accounts that vandalize our project pages on behalf of MidAtlanticBaby. And I noticed something today. Responding admins have a wide variety of responses to this troll, I saw one IP account blocked today for two years and others that were blocked for 1 or 2 weeks. In the cases I looked at, these vandalistic edits were the only edits of these IP accounts so I don't think there is any collateral damage. I realize that "consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds" (someone can correct this quote) but it seems like this is a troll who daily causes trouble, that we don't seem able to stop, maybe we should agree on a proper length of an IP account block in response when this happens. If this is BEANS and should be a discussion happening elsewhere, feel free to move this discussion. It's just such a predictable event that regularly occurs and we have random admins called to respond, it would be helpful to have a standard response we could execute. <a href="/wiki/User:Liz" title="User:Liz">Liz</a> <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Liz" title="Special:Contributions/Liz">Read!</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Liz" title="User talk:Liz">Talk!</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Liz-20250220024100-Query_regarding_MAB" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:41, 20 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Did you come across any indication that MAB ever reuses addresses? My sense is that they don't, and that thus it doesn't really matter beyond a few days' time. signed, <a href="/wiki/User:Rosguill" title="User:Rosguill">Rosguill</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Rosguill" title="User talk:Rosguill">talk</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Rosguill-20250220024800-Liz-20250220024100" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:48, 20 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd> <dd>The block length I give depends upon how sure I am that an open proxy was being used. The length of the block is set to block the proxy, not just MAB. — <a href="/wiki/User:Rsjaffe" title="User:Rsjaffe">rsjaffe</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Rsjaffe" title="User talk:Rsjaffe">🗣️</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Rsjaffe-20250220025000-Liz-20250220024100" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:50, 20 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>That makes sense. The IP geolocation tool used to state whether an IP address is static or not but the page doesn't seem to include that information any longer so I'm not sure how to judge whether it's a proxy. My guess is when admins are confronted, once again, by this persistent gadfly, admins just seek to shut down the account as swiftly as possible. <a href="/wiki/User:Liz" title="User:Liz">Liz</a> <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Liz" title="Special:Contributions/Liz">Read!</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Liz" title="User talk:Liz">Talk!</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Liz-20250220033900-Rsjaffe-20250220025000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">03:39, 20 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Usually it's VPNGate that is being used. Spur will report that. — <a href="/wiki/User:Rsjaffe" title="User:Rsjaffe">rsjaffe</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Rsjaffe" title="User talk:Rsjaffe">🗣️</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Rsjaffe-20250220034400-Liz-20250220033900" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">03:44, 20 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd> <dd>The IPs in question may be anything. <a href="/wiki/VPN_Gate" class="mw-redirect" title="VPN Gate">VPN Gate</a> is run on a network of computers owned by people who want to use a cannot-be-shut-down proxy to do whatever they want. People with normal at-home (or at university or whatever) computers sign up and anyone can use their IP to do whatever. No one wanting to fix a typo at Wikipedia will use that system. <a href="/wiki/User:Johnuniq" title="User:Johnuniq">Johnuniq</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Johnuniq" title="User talk:Johnuniq">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Johnuniq-20250220040700-Liz-20250220033900" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">04:07, 20 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd> <dd>"I'm not sure how to judge whether it's a proxy." <a rel="nofollow" class="external free" href="https://spur.us/context/">https://spur.us/context/</a>[add IP here after url] works most of the time. - <a href="/wiki/User:Ratnahastin" title="User:Ratnahastin">Ratnahastin</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Ratnahastin" title="User talk:Ratnahastin">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Ratnahastin-20250220041200-Liz-20250220033900" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">04:12, 20 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd> <dd>Yes, I would assume the longer blocks are being given out to the open proxies and a cursory glance tells me that is the case. In cases where the IP address is unlikely to be used twice by the same LTA then a shorter block is preferable as it could be used by a good faith editor later down the line. <a href="/wiki/User:Patient_Zero" title="User:Patient Zero">Patient Zero</a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Patient_Zero" title="User talk:Patient Zero">talk</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Patient_Zero-20250220034000-Rsjaffe-20250220025000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">03:40, 20 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd> <dd>I did the two-year block as an open proxy based on <a href="/wiki/Special:Diff/1276644504" title="Special:Diff/1276644504">this report</a> by <a href="/wiki/User:MolecularPilot" title="User:MolecularPilot">MolecularPilot</a>. I normally block for one year but I have seen two-year blocks several times recently. These are IPs that are designed to be used when someone knows that their actions will lead to a block–the IPs are different from proxies of the past. I happen to know of one IP that was reused after a short block (<a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Log/block&page=User:121.168.242.248">[9]</a>), and I've seen a small number of others. The LTA is not necessarily trying to reuse an IP—they just use the open proxy network to get any IP and some of the reuse would be accidental. MolecularPilot is collecting IPs (see <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Bots/Requests_for_approval/MolecularBot" title="Wikipedia:Bots/Requests for approval/MolecularBot">BRFA</a>) and that list might be used to block many of these IPs in advance. Times are changed from when Wikipedia started in 2001. <a href="/wiki/User:Johnuniq" title="User:Johnuniq">Johnuniq</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Johnuniq" title="User talk:Johnuniq">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Johnuniq-20250220040100-Liz-20250220024100" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">04:01, 20 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Yes, I was able to connect to VPNgate and use that IP as an egress IP so I commented at AIV that I've confirmed it's an open proxy. The way VPNgate works (the fact that anyone can start and stop volunteering their computer as a node at any time) means that most often the IP addresses used as "egress IPs" for the network are ephemeral and rotate regularly (unlike other open proxies), escalating blocks starting at a few weeks seems reasonable in my (purely technical) opinion. I've definitely seen 2 year blocks recently as well, perhaps the admins making those know something we don't? <a href="/wiki/User:MolecularPilot" title="User:MolecularPilot">MolecularPilot</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:MolecularPilot" title="User talk:MolecularPilot">🧪️</a><a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/MolecularPilot" title="Special:Contributions/MolecularPilot">✈️</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-MolecularPilot-20250220045000-Johnuniq-20250220040100" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">04:50, 20 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd> <dd>I don't believe we should be looking for consistency, the same for any other IPs. My go-to length is 3 months for an OpenVPN IP with no evidence of reuse. Most of these IPs are highly dynamic, since they are usually just regular ISP clients. A previous block log, or previous use as a proxy can get this extended. My maximum is probably about 2 years for a previously blocked reused proxy (it usually takes some skillz to identify it as a reused proxy), These things can get reused, and they can also get used by accounts. MAB/DarwinandBrianEdits is also known to create and use sleepers on these IPs, which is why I don't anon-only. I've even seen many of these IPs used by 2 or more LTAs in the same week. I suggest an immediate 2 year block without these factors is a bit overkill, and 31 hours is a bit short, but let's please not aim for consistency. -- <a href="/wiki/User:Zzuuzz" title="User:Zzuuzz">zzuuzz</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Zzuuzz" title="User talk:Zzuuzz">(talk)</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Zzuuzz-20250220043000-Liz-20250220024100" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">04:30, 20 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>I concur with this statement due to the nature of VPNgate, as it's possible for anyone to start volunteering their computer to VPNgate, and stop whenever they like, and most of these people who volunteer have dynamic IPs, so IPs used by the VPNgate network to communicate with the outside world rotates quite regularly. Around the time of the BRFA, I did some back of the napkin math and came to this conclusion re ideal block lengths, assuming an automated bot is always checking the hourly list of 98 randomly selected nodes for their "egress" IP addresses used to communicate with Wikipedia:</dd> <dd><style data-mw-deduplicate="TemplateStyles:r1244412712">.mw-parser-output .templatequote{overflow:hidden;margin:1em 0;padding:0 32px}.mw-parser-output .templatequotecite{line-height:1.5em;text-align:left;margin-top:0}@media(min-width:500px){.mw-parser-output .templatequotecite{padding-left:1.6em}}</style><blockquote class="templatequote">[blocks should start at] 2.5 days/60 hours (because VPNgate has 6000 active volunteers on average, divided by approx 100 volunteer hosts checked [by the bot] every hour [note: exactly it's 98, that's how many they make avaliable to check per hour, see linked discussion for more on this], minimum time to ensure the IP has truly stopped [being a VPNgate volunteer]) ... but ramps up exponentially if it's seen again as an egress IP again until we're talking like 6months - 2 years blocks.<div class="templatequotecite">— <cite>Me in January</cite></div></blockquote></dd> <dd>I also strongly recommend reading <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Village_pump_(technical)/Archive_217#VPNgate_blocking_bot" title="Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)/Archive 217">Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)/Archive 217#VPNgate blocking bot</a> (especially the "Discussion" section) for anyone who is interested in the technical elements of VPNgate, such as "ingress" vs "egress" IP addresses, I did a lot of investigation into how it works and have discussed what I found with other contributors there. The bot is currently stalled on me requesting access to Cloud VPS from the WMF, as it turned out to not be possible to run it on toolforge.</dd> <dd>As an additional note, I have developed {{<a href="/wiki/Template:Blocked_VPNgate" title="Template:Blocked VPNgate">Blocked VPNgate</a>}} for use when blocking a VPNgate/MAB IP, it contains language that's more relevant to the volunteer nature of VPNgate rather than traditonal proxies. <a href="/wiki/User:MolecularPilot" title="User:MolecularPilot">MolecularPilot</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:MolecularPilot" title="User talk:MolecularPilot">🧪️</a><a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/MolecularPilot" title="Special:Contributions/MolecularPilot">✈️</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-MolecularPilot-20250220050600-Zzuuzz-20250220043000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">05:06, 20 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Considering how MAB has continued to be a problem (more so than I expected) and how I have a bunch of Azure credits I get for free because I am under 18/a high school student (it's a program they have) that I never use, I've spun up an Azure VM (it would only cost $7/month and I get $100/year in free credit because I'm a student and I never spend it anyway) and deployed the bot code on there to keep it up permanently. Any administrator interested in developing the admin bot to block detected (by this bot) egress IPs increasingly severely (there is already consensus for this at VPT and all you'd need to do is deploy my blocking code on your toolforge [that part would work on toolforge] and file a BRFA) would be very much appreciated (you can leave a message for me on talk or reply here if you'd like). :) <a href="/wiki/User:MolecularPilot" title="User:MolecularPilot">MolecularPilot</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:MolecularPilot" title="User talk:MolecularPilot">🧪️</a><a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/MolecularPilot" title="Special:Contributions/MolecularPilot">✈️</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-MolecularPilot-20250220053800-MolecularPilot-20250220050600" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">05:38, 20 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd></dl> <ul><li>I was really seeking to simplify this process and have a general guideline for admins to follow but I'll admit that I'm more confused than I was when I first posted this. At this point, I feel like leaving it to others to determine an appropriate duration for an IP account block. This is not blaming anyone, I appreciate the information provided, it's just more complicated than I thought. <a href="/wiki/User:Liz" title="User:Liz">Liz</a> <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Liz" title="Special:Contributions/Liz">Read!</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Liz" title="User talk:Liz">Talk!</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Liz-20250220175800-Zzuuzz-20250220043000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:58, 20 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li></ul></dd></dl> <div style="padding-left: 1.6em; font-style: italic; border-top: 1px solid #a2a9b1; margin: 0.5em 0; padding-top: 0.5em">The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.</div> </div><div style="clear:both;" class=""></div> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Request_for_review_of_RfC_closure_at_Talk:Genocide" data-mw-thread-id="h-Request_for_review_of_RfC_closure_at_Talk:Genocide-20250220161300">Request for review of RfC closure at <a href="/wiki/Talk:Genocide" title="Talk:Genocide">Talk:Genocide</a></h2>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard&action=edit&section=10" title="Edit section: Request for review of RfC closure at Talk:Genocide">edit</a>]<div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Genocide&oldid=1276123070#RfC:_History_section,_adding_native_American_and_Australian_genocides_as_examples">This RfC</a> was closed by <a href="/wiki/User:AirshipJungleman29" title="User:AirshipJungleman29">AirshipJungleman29</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:AirshipJungleman29" title="User talk:AirshipJungleman29">talk</a> · <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/AirshipJungleman29" title="Special:Contributions/AirshipJungleman29">contribs</a> · <a href="/wiki/Special:DeletedContributions/AirshipJungleman29" title="Special:DeletedContributions/AirshipJungleman29">deleted contribs</a> · <a href="/wiki/Special:Log/AirshipJungleman29" title="Special:Log/AirshipJungleman29">logs</a> · <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3AAbuseLog&wpSearchUser=AirshipJungleman29">filter log</a> · <a href="/wiki/Special:Block/AirshipJungleman29" title="Special:Block/AirshipJungleman29">block user</a> · <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3ALog%2Fblock&page=User%3AAirshipJungleman29">block log</a>) on 25 January 2025. I have discussed the closure with them at their talk page: <a href="/wiki/User_talk:AirshipJungleman29/Archive_8#RfC_Closure_at_Talk:Genocide" title="User talk:AirshipJungleman29/Archive 8">Part 1</a> and <a href="/wiki/User_talk:AirshipJungleman29#RfC_Closure_at_Talk:Genocide_Part_2" title="User talk:AirshipJungleman29">Part 2</a>, but I was busy earlier and couldn't bring it here. AirshipJungleman29 was also recently on vacation <a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk%3AAirshipJungleman29&diff=1276754835&oldid=1276754768">[10]</a>. This RfC followed a previous attempt at <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:DRN" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:DRN">WP:DRN</a>: <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard/Archive_251#Genocide" title="Wikipedia:Dispute resolution noticeboard/Archive 251">Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard/Archive_251#Genocide</a> Main issues for review include: 1. Strength of arguments. There were quotes from introductory chapters of high-quality <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Secondary" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:Secondary">WP:Secondary</a> overview sources, such as the Oxford Handbook of Genocide Studies. There were also quotes from genocide entries in <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Tertiary" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:Tertiary">WP:Tertiary</a> sources such as the Social Science Encyclopedia. This should be clear in terms of <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:DUE" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:DUE">WP:DUE</a> 2. Potential misrepresentation of my position. I was also in favor of a general expansion, not just adding two more examples <a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk%3AGenocide&diff=1257572602&oldid=1257571322">[11]</a> <a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk%3AGenocide&diff=1263976980&oldid=1263976637">[12]</a>. One of the options in the RfC was about general expansion. 3. Potential for <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Involved" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:Involved">WP:Involved</a>. When I brought some of these genocides at <a href="/wiki/Talk:Human_history/GA2" title="Talk:Human history/GA2">Talk:Human history/GA2</a>, AirshipJungleman29 seemed sceptical <a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk%3AHuman_history%2FGA2&diff=1227751979&oldid=1227739299">[13]</a>. Following further discussion, some of these were later added into the article <a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Human_history&diff=1227883465&oldid=1227869812">[14]</a> <a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Human_history&diff=next&oldid=1227883465">[15]</a>. Additionally, the RfC closure includes comments on editors. I have never seen an RfC closed this way. Usually, it's just about content. My questions to other editors such as this <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Genocide&diff=next&oldid=1263977820">this</a> were also called "<a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:BADGER" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:BADGER">WP:BADGERing</a>". My aim was simply this: <a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk%3AGenocide&diff=1263980779&oldid=1263980318">[16]</a>. <a href="/wiki/User:Bogazicili" title="User:Bogazicili">Bogazicili</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Bogazicili" title="User talk:Bogazicili">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Bogazicili-20250220161300-Request_for_review_of_RfC_closure_at_Talk:Genocide" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:13, 20 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] AirshipJungleman29 was notified about this discussion. <a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk%3AAirshipJungleman29&diff=1276763304&oldid=1276762789">[17]</a> <a href="/wiki/User:Bogazicili" title="User:Bogazicili">Bogazicili</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Bogazicili" title="User talk:Bogazicili">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Bogazicili-20250220170300-Request_for_review_of_RfC_closure_at_Talk:Genocide" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:03, 20 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <div class="mw-heading mw-heading3"><h3 id="Closer_(Genocide_RfC)" data-mw-thread-id="h-Closer_(Genocide_RfC)-Request_for_review_of_RfC_closure_at_Talk:Genocide-20250228091500">Closer (Genocide RfC)</h3>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard&action=edit&section=11" title="Edit section: Closer (Genocide RfC)">edit</a>]</div> <ul><li>@<a href="/wiki/User:Barkeep49" title="User:Barkeep49">Barkeep49</a> and <a href="/wiki/User:Vanamonde93" title="User:Vanamonde93">Vanamonde93</a>: your comments from a different close review below <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Isaidnoway-20250225160100-Non-Participants">have been cited</a> by <a href="/wiki/User:Isaidnoway" title="User:Isaidnoway">Isaidnoway</a> in their closure endorsement, recommending me to refrain from behavior evaluation in future closes.</li></ul> <dl><dd><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:ACD" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:ACD">WP:ACD</a>, while an essay, is widely cited; it advises that "Some closures may also require understanding of Wikipedia’s culture, dispute resolution procedures, behavioral standards, etc." (emphasis mine). It goes on to suggest that POV-pushing, a behavioral issue, might be a reason for a closure to state that consensus is unevaluatable. I have <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?&diff=1240936222">previously closed one RfC</a> in that manner.</dd> <dd>My position is that in exceptional circumstances, behavioural issues have to be considered by the closer. I would rather that this not happen, but sometimes it has to be done. Do you disagree? <a href="/wiki/User:AirshipJungleman29" title="User:AirshipJungleman29">~~ AirshipJungleman29</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:AirshipJungleman29" title="User talk:AirshipJungleman29">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-AirshipJungleman29-20250228091500-Closer_(Genocide_RfC)" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">09:15, 28 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Speaking for myself, I don't take any issue with that closure, but I would not generalize such a principle. My argument below is that participants' failures to follow behavioral expectations should not, in and of itself, devalue their arguments, which should be handled on the merits. For instance, I would not devalue a comment because its author bludgeoned the discussion, though I may separately consider sanctions. Most of the matters you mention are either procedural (RFCNEUTRAL) or directly weigh on the strength of argument (COPYVIO in a proposed addition). More generally, some aspects of RfC participation may both affect strength of argument and be conduct issues, because there is substantial overlap between content and conduct, but I would not invalidate an otherwise strong argument on the basis of purely conduct issues. <a href="/wiki/User:Vanamonde93" title="User:Vanamonde93">Vanamonde93</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Vanamonde93" title="User talk:Vanamonde93">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Vanamonde93-20250228171400-AirshipJungleman29-20250228091500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:14, 28 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading3"><h3 id="Non-Participants_(Genocide_RfC)" data-mw-thread-id="h-Non-Participants_(Genocide_RfC)-Request_for_review_of_RfC_closure_at_Talk:Genocide-20250221030200">Non-Participants (Genocide RfC)</h3>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard&action=edit&section=12" title="Edit section: Non-Participants (Genocide RfC)">edit</a>]</div> <ul><li>Endorse. The evaluation of consensus was correct, such as it was. That said, for an article this important, we ought to have much more participation than just seven editors (I had no awareness of the discussion). As a personal matter, I would have probably !voted to include if it just meant a small intrusion in the text, just to give readers links to examples of how this type of genocide occurred. The closer might want to consider reopening for further feedback. <a href="/wiki/User:Szmenderowiecki" title="User:Szmenderowiecki">Szmenderowiecki</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Szmenderowiecki" title="User talk:Szmenderowiecki">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Szmenderowiecki-20250221030200-Non-Participants_(Genocide_RfC)" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">03:02, 21 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li> <li>Endorse The close was just fine. The RfC went off the rails because of problematic behavior by Bogazicili. A fresh RfC would be a better idea, with Bogazicili avoiding bludgeoning and badgering. <a href="/wiki/User:Cullen328" title="User:Cullen328">Cullen328</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Cullen328" title="User talk:Cullen328">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Cullen328-20250221050000-Non-Participants_(Genocide_RfC)" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">05:00, 21 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li> <li>Endorse, as the only reasonable outcome. The matter is important enough to need more input, there were multiple problems with the RfC, including bludgeoning by the OP, and the outcome that had the most numerical support is not the outcome being advocated for here. Strength of argument matters more, but for a closer to find consensus for an option supported by two out of seven participants, there would have to have been some truly meaningless arguments on the other side. Bogazicili, the fact that you opened a close review here to argue that the closer should have found consensus for a position supported by you and one other editor, and substantively opposed by five others, is an indication to me that you have lost perspective and need to recalibrate. <a href="/wiki/User:Vanamonde93" title="User:Vanamonde93">Vanamonde93</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Vanamonde93" title="User talk:Vanamonde93">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Vanamonde93-20250222163900-Non-Participants_(Genocide_RfC)" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:39, 22 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li> <li>Endorse The consensus was clear and evaluated correctly. As to the point - <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1248585704" /><q class="inline-quote-talk">the RfC closure includes comments on editors</q> - I agree with comments made below in another thread - <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia%3AAdministrators%27_noticeboard&diff=1277337671&oldid=1277337618">an RfC closer</a> shouldn't really be reading with behavioral conduct in mind, followed up with and re-iterated, <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia%3AAdministrators%27_noticeboard&diff=1277340097&oldid=1277338250">an RfC closure</a> should not be engaging with behavioral issues when assessing consensus, which is good advice that AirshipJungleman29 should attempt to follow when closing any future RfCs.<a href="/wiki/User:Isaidnoway" title="User:Isaidnoway"> Isaidnoway </a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Isaidnoway" title="User talk:Isaidnoway">(talk)</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Isaidnoway-20250225160100-Non-Participants_(Genocide_RfC)" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:01, 25 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li></ul> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading3"><h3 id="Participants_(Genocide_RfC)" data-mw-thread-id="h-Participants_(Genocide_RfC)-Request_for_review_of_RfC_closure_at_Talk:Genocide">Participants (Genocide RfC)</h3>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard&action=edit&section=13" title="Edit section: Participants (Genocide RfC)">edit</a>]</div> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading3"><h3 id="Discussion_(Genocide_RfC)" data-mw-thread-id="h-Discussion_(Genocide_RfC)-Request_for_review_of_RfC_closure_at_Talk:Genocide-20250220184400">Discussion (Genocide RfC)</h3>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard&action=edit&section=14" title="Edit section: Discussion (Genocide RfC)">edit</a>]</div> <ul><li>Well, it does look like bludgeoning was going on and the entire RFC could be seen as a Discussion, not just the section labeled "Discussion". Typically, the first section of an RFC are editors weighing in on the options presented and perhaps offering a short explanation which is not what happened here. You really were a very large part of this discussion, Bogazicili. It looked like you either posted or were refered toby name ~37 times in this RFC. And, before you think to object, when you open a discussion like this, the focus is not necessarily just on the discussion closure but on the RFC, too. And, please, Bogazicili, do not comment on every comment made here. <a href="/wiki/User:Liz" title="User:Liz">Liz</a> <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Liz" title="Special:Contributions/Liz">Read!</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Liz" title="User talk:Liz">Talk!</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Liz-20250220184400-Discussion_(Genocide_RfC)" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:44, 20 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Sure but I'll just acknowledge in retrospect that I wasn't as concise as I would like. <a href="/wiki/User:Bogazicili" title="User:Bogazicili">Bogazicili</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Bogazicili" title="User talk:Bogazicili">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Bogazicili-20250220185400-Liz-20250220184400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:54, 20 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></li> <li>That discussion was virtually un-closeable. It was high-importance and sensitive, but it had low participation and some of those who did participate were overly invested in the decision. Therefore it shouldn't have had an outcome, and it didn't, so to that extent it does fit in the "no consensus" box. I'd suggest re-running it with a listing on <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:CENT" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:CENT">WP:CENT</a>, and encourage Bogazicili not to participate in the re-run. At all.—<a href="/wiki/User:S_Marshall" title="User:S Marshall">S Marshall</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:S_Marshall" title="User talk:S Marshall">T</a>/<a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/S_Marshall" title="Special:Contributions/S Marshall">C</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-S_Marshall-20250222162300-Discussion_(Genocide_RfC)" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:23, 22 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li> <li>Bogazicili's history of bludgeoning goes beyond what has already been mentioned. When this RFC was closed with the result Bogazicili didn't want, Bogazicili want on the closer's talk page not <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:AirshipJungleman29/Archive_8#RfC_Closure_at_Talk:Genocide">once</a> but <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:AirshipJungleman29#RfC_Closure_at_Talk:Genocide_Part_2">twice</a> to complain the consensus was misrepresented. There is also another RFC on <a href="/wiki/Human_history" title="Human history">Human history</a> that Bogazicili has been "bumping" since August 2024 to prevent it from being archived,<a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Human_history&diff=prev&oldid=1241358363">[18]</a><a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Human_history&diff=prev&oldid=1250119022">[19]</a><a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Human_history&diff=prev&oldid=1260635140">[20]</a><a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Human_history&diff=prev&oldid=1272044726">[21]</a> because that RFC also has a consensus that is not what Bogazicili wanted. Lastly, <a class="external text" href="https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Turkey/Archive_43#h-RfC_on_massacres_and_genocides_in_the_lead-20241008175400">in this RFC</a>, Bogazicili’s bludgeoning was perhaps at its worst among some other issues. Later Bogazicili even <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Closure_requests&diff=prev&oldid=1262675491">stalled</a> under my closure request of the same RFC, a month after it. <a href="/wiki/User:KhndzorUtogh" title="User:KhndzorUtogh">KhndzorUtogh</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:KhndzorUtogh" title="User talk:KhndzorUtogh">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-KhndzorUtogh-20250224083100-Discussion_(Genocide_RfC)" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">08:31, 24 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>In Human history topic, <a href="/wiki/Talk:Human_history#Coverage_of_genocides_and_atrocities" title="Talk:Human history">Talk:Human_history#Coverage_of_genocides_and_atrocities</a>, there was no RfC. I have reached consensus with the editors responsible for GA promotion. The reason for bumping is I am going to return to it, following <a href="/wiki/User:KhndzorUtogh" title="User:KhndzorUtogh">User:KhndzorUtogh</a> and another editors opposition to one of the issues. I just didn't have the time.</dd> <dd>The RfC in Turkey reached a rough consensus and was closed by an admin. <a href="/wiki/User:Bogazicili" title="User:Bogazicili">Bogazicili</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Bogazicili" title="User talk:Bogazicili">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Bogazicili-20250224152800-KhndzorUtogh-20250224083100" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:28, 24 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>The <a href="/wiki/Talk:Human_history#Coverage_of_genocides_and_atrocities" title="Talk:Human history">Talk:Human_history#Coverage_of_genocides_and_atrocities</a> is as close to an RFC as it can get and has had a consensus for basically half a year now (not just based on votes but arguments from editors who didn't vote too). But yes, if we're being technical, it's missing the RFC template. The core of my point doesn't change though and it's telling that you choose to deflect from it to a minor technicality.</dd> <dd>The Turkey RFC has been <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Voorts#RfC_close">challenged</a> on the closer's talk and they agreed to reopen it <a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Voorts&diff=prev&oldid=1277425051">[22]</a>. <a href="/wiki/User:KhndzorUtogh" title="User:KhndzorUtogh">KhndzorUtogh</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:KhndzorUtogh" title="User talk:KhndzorUtogh">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-KhndzorUtogh-20250224160800-Bogazicili-20250224152800" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:08, 24 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd></dl></li></ul> <dl><dd>(moved from wrong section above) AirshipJungleman29's personal comments in the closure seemed questionable to me, especially since it came a few weeks after this interaction at <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review/Byzantine_Empire/archive3" title="Wikipedia:Featured article review/Byzantine Empire/archive3">Wikipedia:Featured article review/Byzantine Empire/archive3</a>: <a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia%3AFeatured_article_review%2FByzantine_Empire%2Farchive3&diff=1267328485&oldid=1267321836">[23]</a> <a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia%3AFeatured_article_review%2FByzantine_Empire%2Farchive3&diff=1267352918&oldid=1267328485">[24]</a> <a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia%3AFeatured_article_review%2FByzantine_Empire%2Farchive3&diff=1267564206&oldid=1267389571">[25]</a>. So I don't know how uninvolved they were. <dl><dd>Personally, I would have preferred RfC closure only sticking to content issues. AirshipJungleman29 could have mentioned bludgeoning etc in my talk page. That seems to be more in line with usual Wikipedia practice. <a href="/wiki/User:Bogazicili" title="User:Bogazicili">Bogazicili</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Bogazicili" title="User talk:Bogazicili">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Bogazicili-20250301163700-Discussion_(Genocide_RfC)" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:37, 1 March 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading3"><h3 id="Reopening_or_new_RfC" data-mw-thread-id="h-Reopening_or_new_RfC-Request_for_review_of_RfC_closure_at_Talk:Genocide-20250225212600">Reopening or new RfC</h3>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard&action=edit&section=15" title="Edit section: Reopening or new RfC">edit</a>]</div> It seems clear to me that the RfC closure was endorsed. 3 people above seem to have suggested reopening or a fresh RfC. Is there any consensus for repeating the RfC about the general expansion of <a href="/wiki/Genocide#History" title="Genocide">Genocide#History</a> section with more examples, or specifically about these two examples (an RfC about examples in the second paragraph of <a href="/wiki/Genocide#History" title="Genocide">Genocide#History</a> section), or coverage of these issues article-wide? If repeated or reopened, I'm planning a more limited role at most, perhaps such as just quoting the sources. I'd appreciate if someone else can take the lead. <a href="/wiki/User:Bogazicili" title="User:Bogazicili">Bogazicili</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Bogazicili" title="User talk:Bogazicili">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Bogazicili-20250225212600-Reopening_or_new_RfC" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:26, 25 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Definitely start a new RfC rather than trying to reopen the old one. The old one is so messy that it would scare off potential participants. <a href="/wiki/User:Lepricavark" class="mw-redirect" title="User:Lepricavark">LEPRICAVARK</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Lepricavark#top" title="User talk:Lepricavark">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Lepricavark-20250226143300-Bogazicili-20250225212600" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">14:33, 26 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>The reason I'm asking is that sometimes starting a new RfC short after an RfC is closed is seen as disruptive. <a href="/wiki/User:Bogazicili" title="User:Bogazicili">Bogazicili</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Bogazicili" title="User talk:Bogazicili">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Bogazicili-20250226180900-Lepricavark-20250226143300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:09, 26 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd><a href="/wiki/User:Bogazicili" title="User:Bogazicili">Bogazicili</a>, you started this review of an RFC closure and now you're proposing a new RFC before this review is even closed? You're kind of jumping the gun here. If you are satisfied with the discussion here, you can request this conversation be closed but do not start a new RFC while a review of a previous RFC closure is still occurring. <a href="/wiki/User:Liz" title="User:Liz">Liz</a> <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Liz" title="Special:Contributions/Liz">Read!</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Liz" title="User talk:Liz">Talk!</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Liz-20250227022900-Bogazicili-20250226180900" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:29, 27 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:Liz" title="User:Liz">Liz</a>: no. I wasn't planning to restart a RfC right away, just like I wasn't planning to respond to every message.</dd> <dd>The RfC was closed as "no consensus". That seems to have been endorsed here. Do we need a formal closure for that?</dd> <dd>What doesn't seem clear to me is if there is a consensus for a new RfC. That's why I started this section. I will wait for comments and then ask for closure. If there is consensus for another RfC, I'll ask someone else to start the RfC.</dd> <dd>Do you want me to ask for closure for the above part before asking if there is consensus for a new RfC? <a href="/wiki/User:Bogazicili" title="User:Bogazicili">Bogazicili</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Bogazicili" title="User talk:Bogazicili">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Bogazicili-20250227173700-Liz-20250227022900" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:37, 27 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>No, I don't think that is necessary. You're the OP and it seems like you are okay with a closure, other editors are endorsing the RFC closure that is being reviewed, it's up to an admin reviewing disussions to close this one unless there are objections. I expect this to be closed in the near future unless there are objections raised. <a href="/wiki/User:Liz" title="User:Liz">Liz</a> <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Liz" title="Special:Contributions/Liz">Read!</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Liz" title="User talk:Liz">Talk!</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Liz-20250228005200-Bogazicili-20250227173700" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:52, 28 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="RfC_closure_review_request_at_Talk:Republican_Party_(United_States)#Discussion_RfC_Should_"Far-right"_be_used_in_the_infobox" data-mw-thread-id="h-RfC_closure_review_request_at_Talk:Republican_Party_(United_States)#Discussion_R-20250221072400">RfC closure review request at <a href="/wiki/Talk:Republican_Party_(United_States)#Discussion_RfC_Should_"Far-right"_be_used_in_the_infobox" title="Talk:Republican Party (United States)">Talk:Republican Party (United States)#Discussion RfC Should "Far-right" be used in the infobox</a></h2>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard&action=edit&section=16" title="Edit section: RfC closure review request at Talk:Republican Party (United States)#Discussion RfC Should "Far-right" be used in the infobox">edit</a>]<div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <dl><dd><a href="/wiki/Republican_Party_(United_States)" title="Republican Party (United States)">Republican Party (United States)</a> (<a href="/wiki/Talk:Republican_Party_(United_States)" title="Talk:Republican Party (United States)">talk</a><kbd>|</kbd><a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Republican_Party_(United_States)&action=edit">edit</a><kbd>|</kbd><a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Republican_Party_(United_States)&action=history">history</a><kbd>|</kbd><a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Log&page=Republican+Party+%28United+States%29">logs</a><kbd>|</kbd><a href="/wiki/Special:WhatLinksHere/Republican_Party_(United_States)" title="Special:WhatLinksHere/Republican Party (United States)">links</a><kbd>|</kbd><a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20200101010101///en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republican_Party_(United_States)">cache</a><kbd>|</kbd><a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Republican_Party_(United_States)&action=watch">watch</a>) (<a href="/wiki/Talk:Republican_Party_(United_States)#Discussion_RfC_Should_"Far-right"_be_used_in_the_infobox" title="Talk:Republican Party (United States)">RfC closure in question</a>) (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Chetsford#Republican_Party_RfC_closure" title="User talk:Chetsford">Discussion with closer</a>)</dd></dl> Closer: <a href="/wiki/User:Chetsford" title="User:Chetsford">Chetsford</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Chetsford" title="User talk:Chetsford">talk</a> · <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Chetsford" title="Special:Contributions/Chetsford">contribs</a> · <a href="/wiki/Special:DeletedContributions/Chetsford" title="Special:DeletedContributions/Chetsford">deleted contribs</a> · <a href="/wiki/Special:Log/Chetsford" title="Special:Log/Chetsford">logs</a> · <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3AAbuseLog&wpSearchUser=Chetsford">filter log</a> · <a href="/wiki/Special:Block/Chetsford" title="Special:Block/Chetsford">block user</a> · <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3ALog%2Fblock&page=User%3AChetsford">block log</a>) Notified: <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk%3AChetsford&diff=1276871296&oldid=1276865157">1</a> Reasoning: I request a review of <a href="/wiki/Talk:Republican_Party_(United_States)#Discussion_RfC_Should_"Far-right"_be_used_in_the_infobox" title="Talk:Republican Party (United States)">this RfC</a> at the Republican Party (United States) talk page. My reason is as follows: a number of arguments were made during the discussion, and Chetsford, as per their closure statement, determined that one argument from the exclude side was relevant: news sourcing are insufficient here, and academic sources are needed. They also determined that one argument from the include side was relevant: the level of academic sourcing is sufficient. Chetsford concluded that there is no consensus to exclude or include the information, which resulted in exclusion by default (since that was the status quo). When I asked them for clarification regarding this, Chetsford stated that they disregarded the sourcing, and instead "divine[d] whether or not the community felt the sourcing was sufficient or insufficient" (as per <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Chetsford#Republican_Party_RfC_closure" title="User talk:Chetsford">this discussion</a> on their talk page). This line of reasoning fails to take strength of arguments into account: if editors demand a certain level of sourcing and the sourced are then provided, they have to make a case why the sources are still insufficient. Merely "feeling" that the sourcing is insufficient isn't a valid argument. Nine academic sources (not just the three mentioned in the closure statement) were brought up, which would provide a very high level of sourcing - higher than anything else in the entire article. Naturally, there is no specific hard number of sources that guarantees inclusion of information in an article. However, if the level of sourcing - the core of both the include and exclude arguments - is not taken into account, the closure boils down to vote counting. <a href="/wiki/User:Cortador" title="User:Cortador">Cortador</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Cortador" title="User talk:Cortador">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Cortador-20250221072400-RfC_closure_review_request_at_Talk:Republican_Party_(United_States)#Discussion_R" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">07:24, 21 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <div class="mw-heading mw-heading3"><h3 id="Closer_(Republican_"far-right"_RfC)" data-mw-thread-id="h-Closer_(Republican_"far-right"_RfC)-RfC_closure_review_request_at_Talk:Republican_Party_(United_States)#Discussion_R-20250221081100">Closer (Republican "far-right" RfC)</h3>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard&action=edit&section=17" title="Edit section: Closer (Republican "far-right" RfC)">edit</a>]</div> The RfC ended with No Consensus (as opposed to consensus for Support, or consensus for Oppose). The opinion of the challenger here is that an RfC ending with a 50/50 split of "<a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:NHC" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:NHC">responsible Wikipedians</a>" — with both sides making equally valid policy arguments — <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:CON" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:CON">constitutes "as wide an agreement as can be reached"</a> for Support. As <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Chetsford#Republican_Party_RfC_closure" title="User talk:Chetsford">I communicated to them</a>, I reject the accuracy of that calculus. <ul><li>"Chetsford stated that they disregarded the sourcing" This is correct to the extent that I did not sit in singular judgment of the sources as this was not an evidentiary hearing and I am not a judge. It is not for a neutral closer to determine whether or not X# of sources meets an arbitrary threshold they independently determine. Rather, the closer's role is merely to evaluate the strength of policy-based arguments made by the editors as to why the sources are or are not of sufficient quality and quantity.</li> <li>"if the level of sourcing ... is not taken into account" No editor presented a policy-based argument in the RfC as to why X# of sources would vanquish the "overwhelming" criterion set by the Oppose side in their <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:YESPOV" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:YESPOV">WP:YESPOV</a> argument. This position of the Oppose camp was strengthened by three additional discussions from the summer of 2024 that were incorporated by reference and satisfactorily provided a superior quantity of sources that established an existing consensus that "academic sources do not widely or generally or even often refer to the party as far-right, which is typically associated with literal fascism or Nazism" (per Toa Nidhiki05).<div class="paragraphbreak" style="margin-top:0.5em"></div>While there are many ways of establishing a sourcing threshold, the Support camp didn't try any of them and, apparently, were either relying on the closer to cogitate the arguments for them or were depending on me to arbitrarily decree 2, 20, or 200 sources was sufficient. And though Support failed to establish a threshold, the Oppose camp did -- that level which would overcome the conclusion of their incorporated discussions (as noted, they're not obligated to transcribe them into the RfC, and they can incorporate by reference). Indeed, not only did Support fail to set a threshold, they didn't even make an attempt to rebut or address the sources from the incorporated discussions. To my great surprise, they simply forfeited the entire question to Oppose.</li></ul> After applying <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:DISCARD" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:DISCARD">WP:DISCARD</a> and de-weighting <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:VAGUEWAVE" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:VAGUEWAVE">WP:VAGUEWAVEs</a>, I determined that the two sides presented equally valid arguments (given the aforementioned forfeiture of Support to the most potent rebuttal of Oppose). In these cases <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:NHC" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:NHC">WP:NHC</a> directs that "if the discussion shows that some people think one policy is controlling, and some another, the closer is expected to close by judging which view has the predominant number of responsible Wikipedians supporting it". In this case, with both sides presenting roughly equally valid arguments rooted in policy and with an equal split of editors who supported and editors who opposed the proposition, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:NOCON" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:NOCON">WP:NOCON</a> was the only possible result. <a href="/wiki/User:Chetsford" title="User:Chetsford">Chetsford</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Chetsford" title="User talk:Chetsford">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Chetsford-20250221081100-Closer_(Republican_"far-right"_RfC)" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">08:11, 21 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <div class="mw-heading mw-heading3"><h3 id="Non-participants_(Republican_"far-right"_RfC)" data-mw-thread-id="h-Non-participants_(Republican_"far-right"_RfC)-RfC_closure_review_request_at_Talk:Republican_Party_(United_States)#Discussion_R-20250221092100">Non-participants (Republican "far-right" RfC)</h3>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard&action=edit&section=18" title="Edit section: Non-participants (Republican "far-right" RfC)">edit</a>]</div> <ul><li>Overturn. There are enough WP:RS, both primary and secondary sources, that justify adding "Far-right" as a faction of the Republican party. Cortador linked many <a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Republican_Party_(United_States)#c-Cortador-20250114095400-HadesTTW-20250113162400">[26]</a> <a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Republican_Party_(United_States)#c-Cortador-20250122101400-Cortador-20250114095400">[27]</a> in addition to others <a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Republican_Party_(United_States)#c-Warrenmck-20250111115200-Discussion_(RfC:_Should_%22Far-right%22_be_mentioned_as_a_minor_ideology_in_the_info">[28]</a> in the thread. The editors opposed to the change haven't argued why the many WP:RS should be ignored or provided WP:RS in rebuttal. Furthermore, Freedom caucus is listed as part of the Republican party in the infobox and they are considered far-right <a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Republican_Party_(United_States)#c-GlowstoneUnknown-20250115123800-Warrenmck-20250111115200">[29]</a>. An editor mentioned the small size of the far-right faction<a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Republican_Party_(United_States)#c-Toa_Nidhiki05-20250112155700-Warrenmck-20250112073600">[30]</a> but I did not see an argument or discussion whether the faction is so small as to be irrelevant and therefore not subject to inclusion per Wikipedia policy. <a href="/wiki/User:TurboSuperA%2B" title="User:TurboSuperA+">TurboSuperA+</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:TurboSuperA%2B" title="User talk:TurboSuperA+">☏</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-TurboSuperA+-20250221092100-Non-participants_(Republican_"far-right"_RfC)" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">09:21, 21 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li> <li>endorse close as this is an infobox entry that has to make a great reduction of context to come up with an entry. There was no agreement about this. Just because some sources exist is not sufficient reason. Absense of use on many other references s also important. But any way no agreement (not surprising) so that is a no consensus. <a href="/wiki/User:Graeme_Bartlett" title="User:Graeme Bartlett">Graeme Bartlett</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Graeme_Bartlett" title="User talk:Graeme Bartlett">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Graeme_Bartlett-20250222064000-Non-participants_(Republican_"far-right"_RfC)" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">06:40, 22 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li> <li>Endorse. There was no clear overarching policy here - there was an editorial decision to be made (a la <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:DUE" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:DUE">due weight</a>) as to whether it should be in the infobox. And there was no consensus if the burden was met or not. Sources existing does not mean something is due weight for inclusion in the infobox. The only possible outcome of this RfC was no consensus. -bɜ:ʳkənhɪmez | <a href="/wiki/User:Berchanhimez" title="User:Berchanhimez">me</a> | <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Berchanhimez" title="User talk:Berchanhimez">talk to me!</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Berchanhimez-20250222065900-Non-participants_(Republican_"far-right"_RfC)" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">06:59, 22 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Noting that, whether coincidentally or not, a new-ish editor claiming to be an IP editor has purported to close a similar RfC on the same talk page (<a href="/wiki/Republican_Party_(United_States)#RfC:_Should_center-right_be_removed_from_the_infobox?" title="Republican Party (United States)">Republican Party (United States) § RfC: Should center-right be removed from the infobox?</a> with an outcome of "overwhelming consensus to list the Republican Party as a far-right party in the infobox". I will <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:AGF" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:AGF">assume this is merely a mistake</a> in thinking that consensus can override the clear no-consensus here, but I cannot help but think that second RfC was started because someone observed this RfC under question not going their way, so they were trying to <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:CIVILPOV" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:CIVILPOV">shoehorn their desired POV</a> into the article through another RfC. Ultimately, that second RfC should never have been started while this one was going on since the questions were so similar... but at this point, it's a huge mess. So while I stand by endorsing this closure, it may very well be better to simply "relist" it as a brand new RfC, from scratch, asking editors what term (or terms) the party should be described as in the infobox, if at all. -bɜ:ʳkənhɪmez | <a href="/wiki/User:Berchanhimez" title="User:Berchanhimez">me</a> | <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Berchanhimez" title="User talk:Berchanhimez">talk to me!</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Berchanhimez-20250222075300-Berchanhimez-20250222065900" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">07:53, 22 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></li> <li>Endorse. I would have closed the same way, and I see the opposing view as untenable.—<a href="/wiki/User:S_Marshall" title="User:S Marshall">S Marshall</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:S_Marshall" title="User talk:S Marshall">T</a>/<a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/S_Marshall" title="Special:Contributions/S Marshall">C</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-S_Marshall-20250222093500-Non-participants_(Republican_"far-right"_RfC)" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">09:35, 22 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li> <li>Endorse, noting that Chetsford explicitly did not find consensus in either direction, leaving open the possibility of continued discussion. Many arguments in that RfC are poor, with little or no reference to Wikipedia's policies, and this was not restricted to only one side of the argument. Applying fairly strict weighting I see more policy-based support for inclusion than exclusion, but not necessarily enough to call a consensus. If the RfC had been framed well it could possibly have resulted in a more nuanced outcome such as including "far-right" under positions, which had a little more support - but these options didn't receive enough attention. The RfC was also marked by some bludgeoning, particularly from the "oppose" side, but that's a behavioral issue that needs to be handled separately. <a href="/wiki/User:Vanamonde93" title="User:Vanamonde93">Vanamonde93</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Vanamonde93" title="User talk:Vanamonde93">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Vanamonde93-20250222170900-Non-participants_(Republican_"far-right"_RfC)" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:09, 22 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li> <li>Endorse close, as the arguments put forward by Springee, Nemov et al. <a href="/wiki/User:Halbared" title="User:Halbared">Halbared</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Halbared" title="User talk:Halbared">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Halbared-20250225221700-Non-participants_(Republican_"far-right"_RfC)" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:17, 25 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li> <li>Endorse close, per <a href="/wiki/User:Graeme_Bartlett" title="User:Graeme Bartlett">Graeme Bartlett</a>, <a href="/wiki/User:Berchanhimez" title="User:Berchanhimez">berchanhimez</a>, <a href="/wiki/User:S_Marshall" title="User:S Marshall">S Marshall</a>, and <a href="/wiki/User:Vanamonde93" title="User:Vanamonde93">Vanamonde93</a>. <a href="/wiki/User:JacktheBrown" title="User:JacktheBrown">JacktheBrown</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:JacktheBrown" title="User talk:JacktheBrown">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-JacktheBrown-20250226230600-Non-participants_(Republican_"far-right"_RfC)" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:06, 26 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li> <li>Weak overturn. I could see this being NC, but given the closer's stated reliance on Toa's "evidence from past discussions" that, per @<a href="/wiki/User:Aquillion" title="User:Aquillion">Aquillion</a>, not only appears to be very weak/misrepresented but was part of a behavioral issue that got Toa TBANNED from this topic, I think a reassessment of consensus would be warranted. <a href="/wiki/User:JoelleJay" title="User:JoelleJay">JoelleJay</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:JoelleJay" title="User talk:JoelleJay">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-JoelleJay-20250227192100-Non-participants_(Republican_"far-right"_RfC)" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:21, 27 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li></ul> Endorse close The close is within the discretion of the closer and per <a href="/wiki/User:S_Marshall" title="User:S Marshall">S Marshall</a>, and <a href="/wiki/User:Vanamonde93" title="User:Vanamonde93">Vanamonde93</a>.<a href="/wiki/User:Pharaoh_of_the_Wizards" title="User:Pharaoh of the Wizards">Pharaoh of the Wizards</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Pharaoh_of_the_Wizards" title="User talk:Pharaoh of the Wizards">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Pharaoh_of_the_Wizards-20250228184200-Non-participants_(Republican_"far-right"_RfC)" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:42, 28 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <div class="mw-heading mw-heading3"><h3 id="Participants_(Republican_"far-right"_RfC)" data-mw-thread-id="h-Participants_(Republican_"far-right"_RfC)-RfC_closure_review_request_at_Talk:Republican_Party_(United_States)#Discussion_R-20250221083300">Participants (Republican "far-right" RfC)</h3>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard&action=edit&section=19" title="Edit section: Participants (Republican "far-right" RfC)">edit</a>]</div> <dl><dd>I have not participated in the discussion, but I closed a couple of related discussions, including at <a href="/wiki/Donald_Trump" title="Donald Trump">Donald Trump</a>, so I guess I'd be safer in this section.</dd> <dd>Overturn. Supporters have demonstrated that there is ample sourcing to support the contention that at least a faction of the GOP is far-right, both in the media and the academia, which is the main metric that matters. They put up with the effort. As to the opponents... I would have expected them to say - these sources are bad, here are some academic articles saying that the Republicans are not in fact far-right/do not have far-right factions, decent news articles to the same effect. All I saw was baseless assertions that this is not how the academic mainstream sees the GOP, and that the <a href="/wiki/Freedom_Caucus" title="Freedom Caucus">Freedom Caucus</a> is already labelled as right-wing to far-right, so no point to repeat this in the main GOP party infobox, and even then some of these folks agreed that maybe we should include the far-right label under "factions". There is a miscount of !votes in the closure, and the strength of arguments was wrongly assessed.</dd> <dd>There was quite a bit of bludgeoning in the discussion from the supporters, but this doesn't change the overall picture for me: the sourcing is there, the opponents didn't really engage with the sources proposed, and objections ranged from personal opinions to esthetics of bloated infoboxes, but did not really discuss whether the reader stands to benefit from the omission in terms of whether the omission makes the article more informative, trustworthy, honest and neutral (or if they did, they were a minority). <a href="/wiki/User:Szmenderowiecki" title="User:Szmenderowiecki">Szmenderowiecki</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Szmenderowiecki" title="User talk:Szmenderowiecki">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Szmenderowiecki-20250221083300-Participants_(Republican_"far-right"_RfC)" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">08:33, 21 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>I specifically read the three discussions mentioned by Chetsford, and only the second one makes a real effort at evaluating sources. The sources support the notion that there is a far-right element in the GOP, but not that the Republicans as a whole are far-right. The other two discussions do not analyse sources but for the most part simply express opinions.</dd> <dd>In contentious topics like these, I expect editors to engage in a discussion like this:</dd> <dd>It's right to call the GOP far right, my sources are: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7...</dd> <dd>OK, source 1 and 3 are academic and fine, source 2 is a blog, 4-7 are news and are OK-ish. But here's my sources to counter yours: 8, 9, 10, 11... Clearly, there is no agreement</dd> <dd>Well, look, I agree with the opponent, I also have sources 12, 13, 14... to back this up.</dd> <dd>That's not what was happening for the most part. What we need to reflect in the articles is the consensus of sources, not what editors think about US politics. <a href="/wiki/User:Szmenderowiecki" title="User:Szmenderowiecki">Szmenderowiecki</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Szmenderowiecki" title="User talk:Szmenderowiecki">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Szmenderowiecki-20250221103800-Szmenderowiecki-20250221083300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">10:38, 21 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd></dl> <ul><li>Weak Overturn I was a participant in the discussion and advocated to include far-right in some form to the infobox. I do understand where Chetsford was coming from with the close - those of us who wanted to include far-right were unable to persuade the excluders. However Chetsford missed that I actually provided 8 academic sources, not merely 3 before I lost my appetite for reading about the Republican party. Chetsford also failed to note that one of the principal editors on the exclude side of the RfC was topic banned from AP2 for disruptive behaviour including their behaviour at the RfC. They were the one who claimed there were insufficient academic sources and these claims were pretty clearly demonstrated to show a double-standard. Consensus cannot be formed with someone who is going to ignore any evidence contrary to their position. For these reasons I think that Chetsford is, with this decision, allowing that an article can be kept in perpetual status quo so long as the most obstinate page-watchers just say "no," regardless of strength of argument. <a href="/wiki/User:Simonm223" title="User:Simonm223">Simonm223</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Simonm223" title="User talk:Simonm223">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Simonm223-20250221145500-Participants_(Republican_"far-right"_RfC)" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">14:55, 21 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li> <li>Overturn. It's baffling that they put so much weight on Toa Nidhiki05's comments, especially the flatly misrepresented discussions <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1248585704" /><q class="inline-quote-talk">incorporated by reference</q> (their misrepresentation of the consensus in those discussions, and their refusal to engage with the sources that debunked the arguments they made there and elsewhere, was one of the things that specifically <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement&oldid=1276883659#Toa_Nidhiki05">got them topic-banned</a>). It's also alarming that Chetsford put so much focus on the fact that, past a certain point, nobody bothered to continue replying to them. This was not a sign that the side for inclusion <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1248585704" /><q class="inline-quote-talk">surrendered the point</q>, it was because Toa Nidhiki05 was <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:BLUDGEON" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:BLUDGEON">WP:BLUDGEONing</a> the discussion with weak and duplicative arguments, which relied on flatly misrepresenting the contents of previous discussions in a way that was immediately obvious at a glance. Taking the position that every such vague and handwavy "nah the sources support me" comment must be replied to (even when so clearly and unequivocally misrepresenting the "incorporating discussions" that the person making them got topic-banned over it!) to would give too much force to bludgeoning. Discussions are decided based on the strength of arguments, not based on exhausting the opposition's willingness to continue. A closer obviously can't evaluate the sources in-depth, but when they feel that someone has caused another discussion to be <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1248585704" /><q class="inline-quote-talk">incorporated by reference</q>, there is some obligation to at least glance at the incorporated discussion to see if it could plausibly support their argument and therefore whether the incorporation is a weak or strong argument - which Chetsford clearly failed to do here given that (again!) Toa Nidhiki05's misrepresentation of those discussions actually got them topic-banned. Again, just looking between how scathingly Toa Nidhiki05's comments and interactions are described <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement&oldid=1276883659#Toa_Nidhiki05">in the topic ban</a>, as someone who bludgeoned the discussion while ignoring all arguments, and the glowing way Chetsford describes them here as if they made coherent points that went unrebutted, simply gives one whiplash. --<a href="/wiki/User:Aquillion" title="User:Aquillion">Aquillion</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Aquillion" title="User talk:Aquillion">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Aquillion-20250221174300-Participants_(Republican_"far-right"_RfC)" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:43, 21 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li> <li>Support This was an overly long discussion but there are two factors at play. At the end of the day this is a case where what should be placed in the info box is a mix of editorial judgement and sourcing. This isn't a case where editors were arguing that this material couldn't be included in the article body. Rather the question was should such material be in a very high level summary box that by it's very nature doesn't allow for context etc. The closer correctly noted that just because some sources, even once published via scholarship, make a claim, that doesn't show this is a consensus view of scholars. In particular the closing comment that sources are more likely to say X is Y vs the negative would apply here. Second, when you have this many editors, a number who were not participants in the discussion, weigh in we can't just discount that editors felt this wasn't material that should go in this particular location. <a href="/wiki/User:Springee" title="User:Springee">Springee</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Springee" title="User talk:Springee">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Springee-20250221201500-Participants_(Republican_"far-right"_RfC)" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:15, 21 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li> <li>Endorse close - I’m baffled by the arguments for overturning this close. The discussion wasn’t about whether to include the information in the article — it was specifically about placing it in the infobox. There is no policy requiring this information to be in the infobox, and the RFC discussion clearly lacked consensus for its inclusion. I’m disappointed that anyone would suggest otherwise. The RFCs about politics really cause loose interpretation of policy. <a href="/wiki/User:Nemov" title="User:Nemov">Nemov</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Nemov" title="User talk:Nemov">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Nemov-20250222044500-Participants_(Republican_"far-right"_RfC)" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">04:45, 22 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li></ul> <ul><li>Endorse close. I think it's fairly obvious the discussion ended with no consensus. In my view, the discussion below is proving that. Not loving that many RfCs I am in are making appearances here! <a href="/wiki/User:Carlp941" title="User:Carlp941">Carlp941</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Carlp941" title="User talk:Carlp941">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Carlp941-20250227172100-Participants_(Republican_"far-right"_RfC)" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:21, 27 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li></ul> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading3"><h3 id="Discussion_(Republican_"far-right"_RfC)" data-mw-thread-id="h-Discussion_(Republican_"far-right"_RfC)-RfC_closure_review_request_at_Talk:Republican_Party_(United_States)#Discussion_R-20250221085800">Discussion (Republican "far-right" RfC)</h3>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard&action=edit&section=20" title="Edit section: Discussion (Republican "far-right" RfC)">edit</a>]</div> Responding to Chetsford's comments above: with both sides making equally valid policy arguments This is a misrepresentation of my case. The case I made above is that the arguments brought forward are not equally valid. The exclude side demanded sources, the include side provided sources, and the exclude side did not provide a reason why these sources are insufficient. In fact, no direct replies were made to the comments in which Simon223 and I provided said sources explaining why they are insufficient. Furthermore did never claim that a split RfC should result in an include. My argument is that - based on arguments made and not votes - there is no 50/50 split. No editor presented a policy-based argument in the RfC as to why X# of sources would vanquish the "overwhelming" criterion set by the Oppose side in their WP:YESPOV argument. I fail to understand why the include side bringing forward sources seemingly doesn't matter, yet the exclude side setting a vague "overwhelming" threshold needs to be argued against specifically (and not just by simply providing a high number of high-quality sources).<a href="/wiki/User:Cortador" title="User:Cortador">Cortador</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Cortador" title="User talk:Cortador">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Cortador-20250221085800-Discussion_(Republican_"far-right"_RfC)" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">08:58, 21 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <ul><li>"The exclude side demanded sources, the include side provided sources, and the exclude side did not provide a reason why these sources are insufficient.", I describe above -- and in my many other communications -- that this is simply not true. Toa Nidhiki05 (for instance) did, in fact, provide a reason they these were insufficient. And, to my shock and surprise, the entire Oppose camp simply surrendered the point, even though it would not have been a too difficult argument to overcome. Unfortunately, it's not appropriate for the closer to "fill in the blanks". Merely thinking a rebuttal is not sufficient, nor is enunciating it after the fact; one has to actually type it out before the close. I can't make arguments for you.<div class="paragraphbreak" style="margin-top:0.5em"></div>with both sides making equally valid policy arguments This is a misrepresentation of my case. The case I made above is that the arguments brought forward are not equally valid. I'm not trying to represent your case, I'm making a statement as the closer. This seems to be an enduring issue of misunderstanding -- the expectation that I should be acting to further your interests. <a href="/wiki/User:Chetsford" title="User:Chetsford">Chetsford</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Chetsford" title="User talk:Chetsford">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Chetsford-20250221091500-Cortador-20250221085800" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">09:15, 21 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Toa Nidhiki05 did not provide any arguments why the sourcing is insufficient. They made the following arguments: the RfC is unnecessary, far right would be a label, the sources aren't academic, the Freedom Caucus is also described as right-wing, academic sources actually describe the party as centre-right/right-wing, not enough academics support this (without providing sources), the Freedom Caucus is already listed, and the RfC is actually about describing the whole party (which is was not). Those are all the arguments they made, and I failed to see how these counter the argument that there is enough sourcing.</dd> <dd>You stated above: The opinion of the challenger here is that an RfC ending with a 50/50 split of "responsible Wikipedians" — with both sides making equally valid policy arguments — constitutes "as wide an agreement as can be reached" for Support.</dd></dl></li></ul> That is what you claimed is my opinion, and this is how you presented by case, and it is not an accurate representation. <a href="/wiki/User:Cortador" title="User:Cortador">Cortador</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Cortador" title="User talk:Cortador">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Cortador-20250221093300-Discussion_(Republican_"far-right"_RfC)" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">09:33, 21 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd><dl><dd><ul><li>"Toa Nidhiki05 did not provide any arguments why the sourcing is insufficient." You must have missed this: "academic sources do not widely or generally or even often refer to the party as far-right, which is typically associated with literal fascism or Nazism". They bulwarked this statement by incorporating all of the sources in these three separate threads <a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Republican_Party_(United_States)/Archive_34">[31]</a>, <a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Republican_Party_(United_States)/Archive_33">[32]</a>, <a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Republican_Party_(United_States)/Archive_35#%22Center-right%22,_Center-right_to_right-wing%22,_or_%22center-right_to_far-right%22">[33]</a>. You chose not to respond or explain why the sourcing you had cited would overcome the voluminous sourcing the Oppose camp provided by invocation, instead spending your time on arguing against the more irrelevant positions of the Oppose side like their Freedom Caucus OR (in fact, you continue to argue exclusively against their weakest and most irrelevant arguments even here, ignoring their core presentation).That is what you claimed is my opinion, and this is how you presented by case, and it is not an accurate representation. I was making a statement of fact, not a representation of your opinion. I'm sorry if I wasn't clear about that. <a href="/wiki/User:Chetsford" title="User:Chetsford">Chetsford</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Chetsford" title="User talk:Chetsford">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Chetsford-20250221094800-Cortador-20250221093300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">09:48, 21 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>I was making a statement of fact, not a representation of your opinion. You literally wrote: The opinion of the challenger here is That is how you chose to word this, and what you wrote is neither my opinion nor a "statement of fact". I never claimed that a 50/50 split should result in inclusion.</dd> <dd>Two of those links don't link to any specific threads, just to an archive page in general. The first one has one discussion ("Please change to "centre-right to far-right". Here are the sources.") that only features sources in support for there being a far-right faction. A second discussion ("Centre-right and far-right faction") doesn't list any sources that contradict that the GOP has a far-right faction. The second link likewise doesn't link to any specific discussion. It has one discussion ("Proposal: "Big tent" for both parties") where Toa Nidhiki05 claims that there's academic consensus that the party isn't far right. They don't provide any sources for this supposed academic consensus, and also state that part of the party is far-right. Another editor, Viriditas provided a source that the party as a whole drifted to the far right. The third discussion ("Center-right", Center-right to right-wing", or "center-right to far-right") contains no sources except for one NYT opinion piece.</dd> <dd>I can't see whatever "voluminous sourcing" there supposedly is - unless you just took an editor's claim that there is sourcing at face value without the supposed sources actually having been provided. <a href="/wiki/User:Cortador" title="User:Cortador">Cortador</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Cortador" title="User talk:Cortador">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Cortador-20250221101700-Chetsford-20250221094800" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">10:17, 21 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></li></ul> <dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd>It is a statement of fact that the RfC ended "with a 50/50 split of 'responsible Wikipedians' — with both sides making equally valid policy arguments". Your opinion is that this constitutes support, with which I disagree.</dd> <dd>Except to say that I believe these are woefully inadequate characterizations, I can't address your other points, I'm afraid, as they are relitigations of the RfC, as opposed to challenges of the closing rationale. <a href="/wiki/User:Chetsford" title="User:Chetsford">Chetsford</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Chetsford" title="User talk:Chetsford">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Chetsford-20250221172500-Cortador-20250221101700" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:25, 21 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>I never claimed that a split means consensus for support. This is something you (charitably) misread, and quite frankly I don't understand why you keep repeating it. If you think I did, please point to the exact sentence where I said so.</dd> <dd>I believe you can't address the other points because, as other editors also pointed out, there's nothing to address. There is no "voluminous sourcing" in the links provided.</dd> <dd>I also find it concerning that you were happy to repeat TN's argument that there are sources in the links, but when it comes to substanting it, you suddenly "can't address" it. This comes across as just accepting one side's arguments without assessing whether they are valid. <a href="/wiki/User:Cortador" title="User:Cortador">Cortador</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Cortador" title="User talk:Cortador">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Cortador-20250221190500-Chetsford-20250221172500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:05, 21 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>"I never claimed that a split means consensus for support." Then I guess I'm not entirely sure what the point of this close challenge is, if you don't think there's a consensus for Support. <a href="/wiki/User:Chetsford" title="User:Chetsford">Chetsford</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Chetsford" title="User talk:Chetsford">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Chetsford-20250221191000-Cortador-20250221190500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:10, 21 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>The point is that there is a case for inclusion based strength of arguments. I don't see how you could possibly conclude from that that I think support for a chance should be the consensus if the mere vote count is split.</dd> <dd>Also, please point to the sources that TN supposedly brought up with those links. <a href="/wiki/User:Cortador" title="User:Cortador">Cortador</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Cortador" title="User talk:Cortador">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Cortador-20250221192700-Chetsford-20250221191000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:27, 21 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>If the question was "do any sources call parts of the GOP far-right" then the strength of the arguments would win. If the question was, "can we mention far-right in the body of the article" then I would agree. However, this is a question about putting an arguably contentious LABEL in the info box where context isn't provided. In that case editorial judgement is critical and editorial judgement didn't support inclusion in the info box. <a href="/wiki/User:Springee" title="User:Springee">Springee</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Springee" title="User talk:Springee">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Springee-20250221202200-Cortador-20250221192700" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:22, 21 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd> <dd>The discussion was very long, winding and often hard to follow but Toa Nidhiki05 did provide reasons why a number of the scholarship sources provided at various points during the long discussions failed WP:V for the claims for which they were offered. However, the where and how "far-right" was to be included seemed to drift over time so it would be easy to see how a source dismissed for one use might be sufficient for another. <a href="/wiki/User:Springee" title="User:Springee">Springee</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Springee" title="User talk:Springee">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Springee-20250221202000-Cortador-20250221093300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:20, 21 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl> <a href="/wiki/User:TurboSuperA%2B" title="User:TurboSuperA+">TurboSuperA+</a> - two questions: <ul><li>You said "there are enough sources". For my edification for the future, what number is "enough"?</li> <li>You said "The editors opposed to the change haven't argued why the many WP:RS should be ignored or provided WP:RS in rebuttal." For my edification for the future, can you describe why the three threads from 2024 that Toa Nidhiki05 incorporated by reference into the discussion with counter-sources and his argument as to the sufficiency of the sources provided, don't constitute a rebuttal?</li></ul> <a href="/wiki/User:Chetsford" title="User:Chetsford">Chetsford</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Chetsford" title="User talk:Chetsford">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Chetsford-20250221092800-Discussion_(Republican_"far-right"_RfC)" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">09:28, 21 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd><ol><li>In <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Republican_Party_(United_States)/Archive_34#Please_change_to_%22centre-right_to_far-right%22._Here_are_the_sources.">this source</a> several academic sources are provided for far-right. Toa Nidhiki05 made a throw-away comment that there was a prior consensus. No sources provided to support.</li> <li><a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Republican_Party_(United_States)/Archive_33#Proposal:_%22Big_tent%22_for_both_parties">In the second source</a>, Toa Nidhiki05 points to a prior consensus but does not specify what evidentary basis it has. Viriditas provided several sources to remove "centre-right" from the article.</li> <li>In <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Republican_Party_(United_States)/Archive_35#%22Center-right%22,_Center-right_to_right-wing%22,_or_%22center-right_to_far-right%22">the third source</a> Toa Nidhiki05 claims academic reliable sources support center right and not far-right but doesn't identify any such sources. So, no, there were no sources in these links of TN05's that supported their position. They were just spamming links that referred to them making the same argument sans evidence in the past.<a href="/wiki/User:Simonm223" title="User:Simonm223">Simonm223</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Simonm223" title="User talk:Simonm223">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Simonm223-20250221150400-Chetsford-20250221092800" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:04, 21 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>And that is why nobody addressed TN's "sources" - there were none to address. That came up a lot in the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement#Toa_Nidhiki05" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement">AE discussion</a>. <a href="/wiki/User:Simonm223" title="User:Simonm223">Simonm223</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Simonm223" title="User talk:Simonm223">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Simonm223-20250221151500-Simonm223-20250221150400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:15, 21 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></li></ol> <dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd>I very much disagree with this interpretation of the linked discussions, but have to leave it at that, unfortunately, as a point-by-point analysis gets into a relitigation of the RfC, unfortunately, as opposed to a challenge of the closing rationale. <a href="/wiki/User:Chetsford" title="User:Chetsford">Chetsford</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Chetsford" title="User talk:Chetsford">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Chetsford-20250221172500-Simonm223-20250221151500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:25, 21 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Please then tell me what reliable sources TN05 brought up in any of these three threads. Because you asked for an interpretation, one was given, then you said "well I disagree but I won't get into it."</dd> <dd>No, please, get into it. <a href="/wiki/User:Simonm223" title="User:Simonm223">Simonm223</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Simonm223" title="User talk:Simonm223">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Simonm223-20250221180600-Chetsford-20250221172500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:06, 21 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>I'd like to add to this that TN brought up those links to demonstrate that academic sources "broadly refer to the party as center-right or right-wing". Even ignoring that no actual sources were provided, just vague links, the RfC wasn't about party position, but the ideology of a faction within the party (which was pointed out by another editor). Taking this single comment that doesn't even address the question of the RfC and stating that it somehow has equal weight to all other sources that were actually linked to (and thus qualifies as an argument against inclusion) is beyond baffling. <a href="/wiki/User:Cortador" title="User:Cortador">Cortador</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Cortador" title="User talk:Cortador">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Cortador-20250222131100-Simonm223-20250221180600" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">13:11, 22 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd><dl><dd>The extent to which we're relitigating the RfC here is bothering me. The view from 30,000 feet is that this RFC expired without consensus. Parsing it individual source by individual source is distinctly unhelpful.—<a href="/wiki/User:S_Marshall" title="User:S Marshall">S Marshall</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:S_Marshall" title="User talk:S Marshall">T</a>/<a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/S_Marshall" title="Special:Contributions/S Marshall">C</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-S_Marshall-20250226125800-Cortador-20250222131100" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">12:58, 26 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>What sources? Nobody has been able to provide the supposed sources in the past discussions. Relying on sources that can't be shown to exist to demonstrate strength of arguments isn’t acceptable. <a href="/wiki/User:Cortador" title="User:Cortador">Cortador</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Cortador" title="User talk:Cortador">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Cortador-20250228213300-S_Marshall-20250226125800" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:33, 28 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Kash_Patel_RfC" data-mw-thread-id="h-Kash_Patel_RfC-20250222052100">Kash Patel RfC</h2>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard&action=edit&section=21" title="Edit section: Kash Patel RfC">edit</a>]<div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1250141580" /><div class="boilerplate archived archive-top mw-archivedtalk" style=""><link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1235681985" /><div class="side-box metadata side-box-right archive-top-result" style="padding: 10px; line-height: inherit;"> <div class="side-box-flex"> <div class="side-box-text" style="padding: 0;">RfC closed by Szmenderowiecki. - <a href="/wiki/User:The_Bushranger" title="User:The Bushranger">The Bushranger</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:The_Bushranger" title="User talk:The Bushranger">One ping only</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-The_Bushranger-20250225002500-Kash_Patel_RfC" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:25, 25 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</div></div> </div> <div class="boilerplate-header" style="margin-left: 1.6em; font-style: italic;"> The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion. </div> <hr /> <ul><li><a href="/wiki/Kash_Patel" title="Kash Patel">Kash Patel</a> (<a href="/wiki/Special:EditPage/Kash_Patel" title="Special:EditPage/Kash Patel">edit</a> | <a href="/wiki/Talk:Kash_Patel" title="Talk:Kash Patel">talk</a> | <a href="/wiki/Special:PageHistory/Kash_Patel" title="Special:PageHistory/Kash Patel">history</a> | <a href="/wiki/Special:ProtectPage/Kash_Patel" title="Special:ProtectPage/Kash Patel">protect</a> | <a href="/wiki/Special:DeletePage/Kash_Patel" title="Special:DeletePage/Kash Patel">delete</a> | <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:WhatLinksHere/Kash_Patel&limit=999">links</a> | <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Kash_Patel&action=watch">watch</a> | <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Log&page=Kash+Patel">logs</a> | <a class="external text" href="https://tools.wmflabs.org/pageviews?pages=Kash_Patel&project=en.wikipedia.org">views</a>)</li></ul> there is an open RfC asking "Whether to call Kash Patel a conspiracy theorist in the first sentence"<a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Kash_Patel#RfC:_Whether_to_call_Kash_Patel_a_conspiracy_theorist_in_the_first_sentence">[34]</a> two editors, <a href="/wiki/User:CapnJackSp" title="User:CapnJackSp">CapnJackSp</a><a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Kash_Patel&diff=prev&oldid=1276877614">[35]</a> and <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Npsaltos428&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Npsaltos428 (page does not exist)">Npsaltos428</a><a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Kash_Patel&diff=prev&oldid=1276992172">[36]</a> appear to have unilaterally decided that the answer is 'no' and have removed content accordingly. one editor came to my Talk page asking me to explain why I reverted their improper removal of content. I believe their edits improperly circumvent the RfC. I have attempted to discuss this at article Talk, with an apparent response of "get over it, he's in office now, so it's moot." I ask the open RfC be enforced. <a href="/wiki/User:Soibangla" title="User:Soibangla">soibangla</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Soibangla" title="User talk:Soibangla">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Soibangla-20250222052100-Kash_Patel_RfC" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">05:21, 22 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <ul><li>(Non-Admin Comment) – Here is a <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Kash_Patel&oldid=1272067318">reversion</a> of the article about 1 week before the RFC began. “Conspiracy theories” was noted in the lead paragraphs (third one), however, the first sentence was “<link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1248585704" /><q class="inline-quote-talk">Kashyap Pramod Vinod Patel[1][2] (born February 25, 1980) is an American lawyer and former federal prosecutor at the U.S. Department of Justice.</q>” Per <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:ONUS" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:ONUS">WP:ONUS</a> – “The responsibility for achieving consensus for inclusion is on those seeking to include disputed content.” If I understand ONUS correctly, until the conclusion of the RFC, the term “conspiracy theories” should not appear in the first sentence at all, as there is no consensus to include it yet. As a non-administrator I would say those two reversions were poor judgement ones (i.e. shouldn’t have happened), but the term should not appear in the first sentence until the RFC ends. The <a href="/wiki/User:WeatherWriter" title="User:WeatherWriter">Weather Event Writer</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:WeatherWriter" title="User talk:WeatherWriter">Talk Page)</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-WeatherWriter-20250222072200-Soibangla-20250222052100" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">07:22, 22 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li></ul> I should also add that the "conspiracy theorist" term existed prior to the RfC, and the RfC creator, who was also deeply involved in opposition to inclusion, unilaterally and improperly closed the RfC (and another regarding RFK Jr) and was admonished by editors and admins that their actions were potentially sanctionable.<a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Incidents#Heavy_bludgeoning">[37]</a>] I hope the integrity of the RfC process can be maintained. <a href="/wiki/User:Soibangla" title="User:Soibangla">soibangla</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Soibangla" title="User talk:Soibangla">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Soibangla-20250222081900-Kash_Patel_RfC" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">08:19, 22 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>You would indeed be correct. Here is a timeline I have researched: <ul><li><a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Kash_Patel&diff=prev&oldid=1272867728">Jan 30, 15:09</a> term “conspiracy theorist” added to first sentence with the reasoning, "<link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1248585704" /><q class="inline-quote-talk">Fix</q>".</li> <li><a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Kash_Patel&diff=prev&oldid=1272892497">Jan 30, 17:57</a> term “conspiracy theorist” removed from first sentence by Wikieditor662 with the reasoning, "<link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1248585704" /><q class="inline-quote-talk">Unnecessary for the first sentence</q>".</li> <li><a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Kash_Patel&diff=prev&oldid=1272965022">Jan 31, 01:58</a> term “conspiracy theory promoter” added to first sentence by Soibangla with the reasoning, “<link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1248585704" /><q class="inline-quote-talk">see body for extensive "conspiracy theory promoter" documentation</q>”</li> <li><a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Kash_Patel&diff=prev&oldid=1273097001">Jan 31, 17:56</a> term changed from “conspiracy theory promoter” to “conspiracy theorist”.</li> <li><a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Kash_Patel&diff=prev&oldid=1273226851">Feb 1, 10:30</a> term “conspiracy theorist” removed from first sentence with the reasoning, “<link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1248585704" /><q class="inline-quote-talk">Pending consensus as discussed on TALK page. Requested an RfC from ~ ToBeFree (talk): I think we need an RfC regarding removing "and conspiracy theorist"** from the opening sentence, since there seems to be an edit war on it. Thanks.</q>”</li> <li><a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Kash_Patel&diff=prev&oldid=1273228350">Feb 1, 10:51</a> term “Conspiracy theorist” readded to first sentence by Soibangla with the reasoning, “<link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1248585704" /><q class="inline-quote-talk">if you "think we need an RfC regarding removing "and conspiracy theorist"** from the opening sentence," please maintain the status quo pending that RfC</q>”</li> <li><a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Kash_Patel&diff=prev&oldid=1273904800">Feb 4, 13:57</a> term “Conspiracy theorist” removed from first sentence with the reasoning, “<link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1248585704" /><q class="inline-quote-talk">Removed a speculative Democratic Party accusation against a Republican public figure.</q>”</li> <li><a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Kash_Patel&diff=prev&oldid=1273961803">Feb 4, 20:09</a> term “Conspiracy theorist” readded to first sentence by Soibangla With the reasoning, “<link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1248585704" /><q class="inline-quote-talk">and conspiracy theorist</q>”.</li> <li><a href="/wiki/Talk:Kash_Patel#RfC:_Whether_to_call_Kash_Patel_a_conspiracy_theorist_in_the_first_sentence" title="Talk:Kash Patel">RFC Start</a> at Feb 5, 23:04 by Wikieditor662.</li></ul></dd> <dd>While you are correct that it was in the article before the RFC, it was not an uncontested item. At least in the week leading up to the RFC, the term was added and removed 3 different times. Subsequently, one editor was the re-adding editor on all 3 of those occasions. <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:ONUS" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:ONUS">WP:ONUS</a> still honestly plays a role in my opinion. Just based on this timeline, it is clear there is no clear consensus to add the term to the first sentence, so the status quo of pre-RFC as well as pre-edit dispute would be to have it removed from the first sentence until the RFC concludes. The <a href="/wiki/User:WeatherWriter" title="User:WeatherWriter">Weather Event Writer</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:WeatherWriter" title="User talk:WeatherWriter">Talk Page)</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-WeatherWriter-20250222083900-Soibangla-20250222081900" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">08:39, 22 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd> <dd>Given Soibangla's history of <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:BATTLEGROUND" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:BATTLEGROUND">WP:BATTLEGROUND</a> behavior in this topic area, including at many points casting aspersions towards other editors, and this incident, where they've been reinstating contested BLP content in violation of <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:BLPRESTORE" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:BLPRESTORE">WP:BLPRESTORE</a>, I've indefinitely topic-banned them from <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:CT/AP" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:CT/AP">WP:CT/AP</a> as an <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:AE" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:AE">arbitration enforcement</a> action. <a href="/wiki/User:Elli" title="User:Elli">Elli</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Elli" title="User talk:Elli">talk</a> | <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Elli" title="Special:Contributions/Elli">contribs</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Elli-20250222084600-Soibangla-20250222081900" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">08:46, 22 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Thanks. I tried to talk to them on their T/P about the edit which was clearly a BLP vio, but they refused to offer any explanation. <a href="/wiki/User:CapnJackSp" title="User:CapnJackSp">Captain Jack Sparrow</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:CapnJackSp" title="User talk:CapnJackSp">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-CapnJackSp-20250222113000-Elli-20250222084600" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">11:30, 22 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd><a href="/wiki/User:CapnJackSp" title="User:CapnJackSp">CapnJackSp</a> had you mentioned a BLP vio it would have caught my attention and I would have engaged you and reversed my action if I concluded you were correct, but that's not what you did. <a href="/wiki/User:Soibangla" title="User:Soibangla">soibangla</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Soibangla" title="User talk:Soibangla">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Soibangla-20250222114300-CapnJackSp-20250222113000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">11:43, 22 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd><link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1248585704" /><q class="inline-quote-talk">You sure that this revert was appropriate? This isnt something I care enough about to get into reverting reverts, but adding contentious stuff to a high notice BLP page is just inviting trouble. Would you be willing to explain why you felt that the phrase must be included before the RFC for its inclusion finishes?</q> <a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk%3ASoibangla&diff=1276950486&oldid=1276950178">[38]</a> Huh. <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/100.36.106.199" title="Special:Contributions/100.36.106.199">100.36.106.199</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:100.36.106.199" title="User talk:100.36.106.199">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-100.36.106.199-20250222123300-Soibangla-20250222114300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">12:33, 22 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>This whole dispute is very silly. Read <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:LEADFOLLOWSBODY" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:LEADFOLLOWSBODY">WP:LEADFOLLOWSBODY</a>. We have a whole section of the article about his conspiracy theories. That should be summarized in the lead. <a href="/wiki/User:Simonm223" title="User:Simonm223">Simonm223</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Simonm223" title="User talk:Simonm223">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Simonm223-20250222211000-100.36.106.199-20250222123300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:10, 22 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Like am I missing something here? The "personal views" section has two sub-headings. One is a brief account of him feuding with Musk. The other is an extensive enumeration of the conspiracy theories he subscribes to publicly. How is it a BLP violation for the lede to accurately summarize the body of the same article? <a href="/wiki/User:Simonm223" title="User:Simonm223">Simonm223</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Simonm223" title="User talk:Simonm223">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Simonm223-20250222212500-Simonm223-20250222211000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:25, 22 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>I'm under the impression that the dispute is about the first sentence, not the entire lede. The conspiracy theories are mentioned in the third paragraph of lede. <a href="/wiki/User:ARandomName123" title="User:ARandomName123">ARandomName123</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:ARandomName123" title="User talk:ARandomName123">talk</a>)Ping me! <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-ARandomName123-20250222214000-Simonm223-20250222212500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:40, 22 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>But again that isn't a BLP concern - at most it's a MOS question. And frankly it's kind of absurd to have an RfC over something as trivial as whether to summarize something in para 1 or para 3 of a lede. But also most of the oppose !votes are opposing his characterization as a conspiracy theorist. Has anyone told them the RfC really won't change that? I am so tired of this silliness in AP2. It is going to be a long 4 years. <a href="/wiki/User:Simonm223" title="User:Simonm223">Simonm223</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Simonm223" title="User talk:Simonm223">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Simonm223-20250222220500-ARandomName123-20250222214000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:05, 22 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:Simonm223" title="User:Simonm223">Simonm223</a>: The RFC is about if it should be kept in the first sentence or later in the lead. The long standing is not the first sentence and thus you should not of restored it. Please revert. <a href="/wiki/User:PackMecEng" title="User:PackMecEng">PackMecEng</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:PackMecEng" title="User talk:PackMecEng">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-PackMecEng-20250222221100-Simonm223-20250222220500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:11, 22 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>I did. Almost immediately. My self-revert was subsequently reverted. <a href="/wiki/User:Simonm223" title="User:Simonm223">Simonm223</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Simonm223" title="User talk:Simonm223">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Simonm223-20250222221900-PackMecEng-20250222221100" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:19, 22 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Ack, sorry about that, I meant <a href="/wiki/User:BootsED" title="User:BootsED">BootsED</a>. <a href="/wiki/User:PackMecEng" title="User:PackMecEng">PackMecEng</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:PackMecEng" title="User talk:PackMecEng">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-PackMecEng-20250222222200-Simonm223-20250222221900" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:22, 22 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>That was my mistake! I was trying to restore it and apparently there was a mix up. <a href="/wiki/User:BootsED" title="User:BootsED">BootsED</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:BootsED" title="User talk:BootsED">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-BootsED-20250222222900-PackMecEng-20250222222200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:29, 22 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd> <dd>I believe the concern isn't so much the fact that adding it violates BLP (though people are arguing it does, per the "must be written conservatively" part of BLP), it's the fact that the article is a BLP article, and has to follow <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:BLPRESTORE" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:BLPRESTORE">WP:BLPRESTORE</a>. Disputed material must achieve consensus before being readded. So the BLP concern is about the reversions and the dispute itself, not necessarily about whether he is a conspiracy theorist or not. <a href="/wiki/User:ARandomName123" title="User:ARandomName123">ARandomName123</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:ARandomName123" title="User talk:ARandomName123">talk</a>)Ping me! <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-ARandomName123-20250222223800-Simonm223-20250222220500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:38, 22 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Ok but is there any policy driven ground to exclude? Because if not this whole RfC is still essentially <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:CRYBLP" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:CRYBLP">WP:CRYBLP</a> just wearing a hat. <a href="/wiki/User:Simonm223" title="User:Simonm223">Simonm223</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Simonm223" title="User talk:Simonm223">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Simonm223-20250222230800-ARandomName123-20250222223800" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:08, 22 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Maybe <a href="/wiki/MOS:LEADSENTENCE" class="mw-redirect" title="MOS:LEADSENTENCE">MOS:LEADSENTENCE</a>? What I believe the main focus of this RfC is not whether or not he has promoted conspiracies or not, he has, it's whether his promotion of conspiracies is so central to him that it should be included in the first sentence. You evidently believe so, but others do not. <a href="/wiki/User:ARandomName123" title="User:ARandomName123">ARandomName123</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:ARandomName123" title="User talk:ARandomName123">talk</a>)Ping me! <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-ARandomName123-20250222232800-Simonm223-20250222230800" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:28, 22 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>He ran a conspiracy podcast so it was literally his job to a certain extent. I'd say it's pretty central. Again this whole RfC strikes me as unnecessary in the extreme. <a href="/wiki/User:Simonm223" title="User:Simonm223">Simonm223</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Simonm223" title="User talk:Simonm223">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Simonm223-20250222233800-ARandomName123-20250222232800" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:38, 22 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd><link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1248585704" /><q class="inline-quote-talk">I'd say it's pretty central.</q> and others disagree, hence the RfC. <a href="/wiki/User:ARandomName123" title="User:ARandomName123">ARandomName123</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:ARandomName123" title="User talk:ARandomName123">talk</a>)Ping me! <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-ARandomName123-20250222234600-Simonm223-20250222233800" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:46, 22 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Do they? On what grounds exactly? What policy reason is there to downplay this man's many extremely fringe beliefs? <a href="/wiki/User:Simonm223" title="User:Simonm223">Simonm223</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Simonm223" title="User talk:Simonm223">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Simonm223-20250223014400-ARandomName123-20250222234600" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:44, 23 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>It ends up being a due weight issue. How important it is in defining him as a person, some say its super important, others less so. So the policy reason is <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:DUE" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:DUE">WP:DUE</a>, but there is no hard and fast metric besides editorial judgment. <a href="/wiki/User:PackMecEng" title="User:PackMecEng">PackMecEng</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:PackMecEng" title="User talk:PackMecEng">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-PackMecEng-20250223015200-Simonm223-20250223014400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:52, 23 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Ok that's fair. I still don't like this RfC but that is at least a policy-based response rather than pure <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:IDONTLIKEIT" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:IDONTLIKEIT">WP:IDONTLIKEIT</a>. <a href="/wiki/User:Simonm223" title="User:Simonm223">Simonm223</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Simonm223" title="User talk:Simonm223">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Simonm223-20250223140300-PackMecEng-20250223015200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">14:03, 23 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd> <dd>That kind of consensus is needed for the body, not the lead paragraph. The lead paragraph follows the body.</dd> <dd>If editors believe that this is a BLP issue, they need to challenge what the article body says. Questioning the lead paragraph can only be done if it doesn't accurately represent the body. <a href="/wiki/User:Cortador" title="User:Cortador">Cortador</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Cortador" title="User talk:Cortador">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Cortador-20250222231500-ARandomName123-20250222223800" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:15, 22 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>This is about the lead sentence, not lead paragraph. Most do not dispute that it should be mentioned somewhere in the lead. <a href="/wiki/User:ARandomName123" title="User:ARandomName123">ARandomName123</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:ARandomName123" title="User talk:ARandomName123">talk</a>)Ping me! <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-ARandomName123-20250222233200-Cortador-20250222231500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:32, 22 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>That changes nothing. What does into that sentence is likewise determined by the makeup of the article body. <a href="/wiki/User:Cortador" title="User:Cortador">Cortador</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Cortador" title="User talk:Cortador">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Cortador-20250223160200-ARandomName123-20250222233200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:02, 23 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>I mean sure, but you have to keep in mind that we can't make the first sentence be infinitely long, to include every important detail form the body. We have to pick and choose what goes into the first sentence, and that's what the RfC is about. <a href="/wiki/User:ARandomName123" title="User:ARandomName123">ARandomName123</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:ARandomName123" title="User talk:ARandomName123">talk</a>)Ping me! <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-ARandomName123-20250223180000-Cortador-20250223160200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:00, 23 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>I mean... <a href="/wiki/Lucy_Ellmann" title="Lucy Ellmann">Lucy Ellmann</a> took a fair try at an infinite first sentence. <a href="/wiki/User:Simonm223" title="User:Simonm223">Simonm223</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Simonm223" title="User talk:Simonm223">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Simonm223-20250223221000-ARandomName123-20250223180000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:10, 23 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>I mean we could resolve the issue by replacing all the periods in the article with "<a href="/wiki/Ducks,_Newburyport" title="Ducks, Newburyport">the fact that</a>" if you want to go that route.  :) <a href="/wiki/User:ARandomName123" title="User:ARandomName123">ARandomName123</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:ARandomName123" title="User talk:ARandomName123">talk</a>)Ping me! <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-ARandomName123-20250223231800-Simonm223-20250223221000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:18, 23 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>I mean... having only one sentence in the article would cut through the gordian knot of this RfC.<a href="/wiki/User:Simonm223" title="User:Simonm223">Simonm223</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Simonm223" title="User talk:Simonm223">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Simonm223-20250223232200-ARandomName123-20250223231800" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:22, 23 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>I see we're in agreement. brb, going to close the RfC rn. <a href="/wiki/User:ARandomName123" title="User:ARandomName123">ARandomName123</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:ARandomName123" title="User talk:ARandomName123">talk</a>)Ping me! <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-ARandomName123-20250223232600-Simonm223-20250223232200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:26, 23 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd> <dd>That is not how that works and it is mentioned in the lead. The RFC is about where in the lead. The position in the lead, specifically the first sentence, has undue weight implications because the <a href="/wiki/MOS:FIRST" class="mw-redirect" title="MOS:FIRST">first sentence</a> is what main thing the subject is known for, while the rest of the lead is a summary of the article. Undue weight on something in a BLP, is a BLP violation. <a href="/wiki/User:PackMecEng" title="User:PackMecEng">PackMecEng</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:PackMecEng" title="User talk:PackMecEng">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-PackMecEng-20250223161500-Cortador-20250222231500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:15, 23 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <ul><li>Is there any admin action that needs to be taken here or have things been resolved? It seems like this discussion has evolved into a conversation about the RFC. That doesn't need to happen on this noticeboard. <a href="/wiki/User:Liz" title="User:Liz">Liz</a> <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Liz" title="Special:Contributions/Liz">Read!</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Liz" title="User talk:Liz">Talk!</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Liz-20250224002400-CapnJackSp-20250222113000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:24, 24 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd><a href="/wiki/User:Liz" title="User:Liz">Liz</a>, I don't think there needs to be any admin action here, at least for now. I have reclosed the RfC. <a href="/wiki/User:Szmenderowiecki" title="User:Szmenderowiecki">Szmenderowiecki</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Szmenderowiecki" title="User talk:Szmenderowiecki">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Szmenderowiecki-20250224161500-Liz-20250224002400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:15, 24 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></li></ul></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div style="padding-left: 1.6em; font-style: italic; border-top: 1px solid #a2a9b1; margin: 0.5em 0; padding-top: 0.5em">The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.</div> </div><div style="clear:both;" class=""></div> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Unban_request_from_Elpresidente360" data-mw-thread-id="h-Unban_request_from_Elpresidente360-20250223064900">Unban request from Elpresidente360</h2>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard&action=edit&section=22" title="Edit section: Unban request from Elpresidente360">edit</a>]<div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <a href="/wiki/User:Elpresidente360" title="User:Elpresidente360">Elpresidente360</a> posted the following unban request on their talk page at 21:35 (UTC) on 21 February 2025: <dl><dd>I am writing to ask for a review on my ban. First off I want to start off by stating that I was blocked on October 2023 for over editing on a page and then got banned for multiple block evasion consequently.</dd> <dd>After I was blocked on ‘Elpresidente360’, the followings accounts: Parislondoner, Chengqingy, Mike Janetta - were opened and operated by me.</dd> <dd>I apologize for my wrongdoings and feel so ashamed for myself knowing that I was defaulting the community’s regulations on over-editing, block and evasion rules.</dd> <dd>I have taken time off to reflect on what is required of users on Wikipedia and now eager to stick by it. I hope the community would accept me back. Thank you.</dd></dl> Elpresidente360 was blocked as a promotion-only, single-purpose account on 17 October 2023, then reblocked for sockpuppetry later that day (see <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Sockpuppet_investigations/Elpresidente360" title="Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Elpresidente360">Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Elpresidente360</a>). A cu check from <a href="/wiki/User:Jpgordon" title="User:Jpgordon">jpgordon</a> at 2:00 (UTC) on 22 February 2025 came back clean. <a href="/wiki/User:Significa_liberdade" title="User:Significa liberdade">Significa liberdade (she/her)</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Significa_liberdade" title="User talk:Significa liberdade">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Significa_liberdade-20250223064900-Unban_request_from_Elpresidente360" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">06:49, 23 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <ul><li>Question User claims they were blocked "for over editing on a page". This is not accurate. I blocked them for being a "<a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:SPAM" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:SPAM">Promotion</a> / <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:NOTADVERTISING" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:NOTADVERTISING">advertising</a>-only account: <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:SPA" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:SPA">WP:SPA</a> around P Square". Elpresidente360, do you care to address this? You may want to read <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:TOPICBAN" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:TOPICBAN">WP:TOPICBAN</a> before responding. --<a href="/wiki/User:Yamla" title="User:Yamla">Yamla</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Yamla" title="User talk:Yamla">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Yamla-20250223114800-Significa_liberdade-20250223064900" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">11:48, 23 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li></ul> <dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd>Yes you are right, I was finding the exact word the block was tagged - ‘Promotion’</dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd>Firstly, I joined Wikipedia with a niche interest on just things I was familiar then - music, artistes, footballers and other things.</dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd>I was not paid nor was I advocating for anybody or thing. I feel those areas of interest were my range then, which might come off as promotion or advocacy in Administrator’s perspective.</dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd>One of Wikipedia’s goal is to expand a topic with reliable sources, but if editing on ‘P-Square’ page will attract further and unexpected penalty to me, I will totally desist from editing anything about the page or related to it. Reply by Elpresidente360 posted by <a href="/wiki/User:PhilKnight" title="User:PhilKnight">PhilKnight</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:PhilKnight" title="User talk:PhilKnight">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-PhilKnight-20250223170600-Yamla-20250223114800" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:06, 23 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <ul><li>Support unban, given that user is willing to avoid writing about P-Square. At the time of the original block, there was a lot of undisclosed but (if I remember correctly) confirmed paid editing around P-Square. --<a href="/wiki/User:Yamla" title="User:Yamla">Yamla</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Yamla" title="User talk:Yamla">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Yamla-20250223171400-Significa_liberdade-20250223064900" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:14, 23 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li></ul> <ul><li>Tentative and hopeful Support per my <a href="/wiki/User:Yamla" title="User:Yamla">my colleague</a> above.<a href="/wiki/User:Deepfriedokra" title="User:Deepfriedokra">-- Deepfriedokra</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Deepfriedokra" title="User talk:Deepfriedokra">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Deepfriedokra-20250223184400-Significa_liberdade-20250223064900" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:44, 23 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li></ul> <ul><li>Bumping this to avoid archiving so there is hopefully more input. - <a href="/wiki/User:The_Bushranger" title="User:The Bushranger">The Bushranger</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:The_Bushranger" title="User talk:The Bushranger">One ping only</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-The_Bushranger-20250228225200-Significa_liberdade-20250223064900" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:52, 28 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li> <li>Support - sure, why not? <a href="/wiki/User:Jauerback" title="User:Jauerback">Jauerback</a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Jauerback" title="User talk:Jauerback">dude?</a>/<a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Jauerback" title="Special:Contributions/Jauerback">dude.</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Jauerback-20250301000900-Significa_liberdade-20250223064900" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:09, 1 March 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li></ul> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Threats_and_ad-hominems_being_used_to_bully_editor" data-mw-thread-id="h-Threats_and_ad-hominems_being_used_to_bully_editor-20250223191200">Threats and ad-hominems being used to bully editor</h2>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard&action=edit&section=23" title="Edit section: Threats and ad-hominems being used to bully editor">edit</a>]<div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1250141580" /><div class="boilerplate archived archive-top mw-archivedtalk" style=""><link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1235681985" /><div class="side-box metadata side-box-right archive-top-result" style="padding: 10px; line-height: inherit;"> <div class="side-box-flex"> <div class="side-box-text" style="padding: 0;">I am taking action and closing this discussion even though there are still outstanding complaints. First, I don't see a reason why this complaint was posted on <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:AN" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:AN">WP:AN</a> and I would suggest that if there are still concerns about specific "incidents", that the editors open a case on <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:ANI" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:ANI">WP:ANI</a>. This complaint was originally about Kovcszaln6 and Simonm223 but over time, it became a discussion to post complaints about other editors which made it a distraction and it also became a general discussion on civility which should really occur on a policy talk page. I'll just remind all editors, that's ALL editors, that being snippy, glib or uncivil (or is it "incivil") with your fellow editors never works as persuasion for them to adjust their opinions or behavior and can just make an editor look smug which is the opposite of how we should appear to other editors, especially less experienced ones. It can be time-consuming to reiterate the same policy-based arguments to questions that are brought up repeatedly but that's part of the job you signed up for when you became an editor. Now, be well and go edit! <a href="/wiki/User:Liz" title="User:Liz">Liz</a> <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Liz" title="Special:Contributions/Liz">Read!</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Liz" title="User talk:Liz">Talk!</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Liz-20250227021100-Threats_and_ad-hominems_being_used_to_bully_editor" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:11, 27 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</div></div> </div> <div class="boilerplate-header" style="margin-left: 1.6em; font-style: italic;"> The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion. </div> <hr /> Hi there, I recently used the dispute resolution board in good faith to try to clarify/fix some issues with a contentious page. Two users subsequently attacked me on the dispute resolution board and seemingly deleted my request for dispute resolution A few things I read which made me believe Dispute Resolution was a good place to go: "This is an early stop for most disputes on Wikipedia", "If we can't help you, a volunteer will point you in the right direction." (this did not happen, I was attacked and the post was deleted) A few instructions from the dispute resolution page: "Be civil". "Discussions should be <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Civility" title="Wikipedia:Civility">civil</a>, calm, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Too_long;_didn%27t_read" title="Wikipedia:Too long; didn't read">concise</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Neutral_point_of_view" title="Wikipedia:Neutral point of view">neutral</a>, objective and as nice as possible." A few of the things they said which I believe are clear violations of those rules: User Kovcszaln6 (<a href="/wiki/User:Kovcszaln6" title="User:Kovcszaln6">User:Kovcszaln6</a>): "this dispute is ridiculous" "continued rambling" "if you continue with your behavior, expect to be blocked" None of these statements are appropriate or conducive, and they attack and threaten me personally. I should not be afraid to try to use a tool that I believe is supposed to be there to help solve problems under threat of being banned. That is the exact behavior that I'm trying to bring the dispute resolution team in to help with, in fact. Further, calling my opinions or concerns "ridiculous" or the things that I write as "ramblings" are clearly against the rules of both the dispute resolution and other general Wiki rules to treat people with dignity and respect. User Simonm223 <a href="/wiki/User:Simonm223" title="User:Simonm223">User:Simonm223</a>: "I am tired of people..." "Lincoln2020 and certain other very new editors don't appear willing to accept" Also, unacceptable and ad-hominem based. I'm not quite sure how to link directly to it and the edits these editors made, but personally I'm able to find it here: <a class="external free" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia%3ADispute_resolution_noticeboard&oldid=prev&diff=1277113869">https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia%3ADispute_resolution_noticeboard&oldid=prev&diff=1277113869</a> and then search "Gulf of Mexico". <a href="/wiki/User:Lincoln2020" title="User:Lincoln2020">Lincoln2020</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Lincoln2020" title="User talk:Lincoln2020">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Lincoln2020-20250223191200-Threats_and_ad-hominems_being_used_to_bully_editor" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:12, 23 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Can you please stop bothering people about an RfC not going your way? At this point you've been told several times about how this works on Wikipedia but still you won't let it rest. This has become willfully disruptive. <a href="/wiki/User:Simonm223" title="User:Simonm223">Simonm223</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Simonm223" title="User talk:Simonm223">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Simonm223-20250223192400-Lincoln2020-20250223191200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:24, 23 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>And <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Lincoln2020&diff=prev&oldid=1277275658">this comment</a> is closer to a personal attack than me pointing out you won't drop the stick over the Gulf of Mexico RfC. <a href="/wiki/User:Simonm223" title="User:Simonm223">Simonm223</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Simonm223" title="User talk:Simonm223">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Simonm223-20250223193000-Simonm223-20250223192400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:30, 23 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>The dictatorial comments continue, even in an admin complaint board. I'm tired of your threats, Simonm223. You aren't going to bully me out of being "bold", as Wiki encourages us to. If I think something was done incorrectly and people (like yourself) bullied other people in order to keep a page how your political beliefs *clearly* lean, I will say so. So you can "drop the stick" over silencing me, because I'm going to stand up for myself and the others who you try to "aggressively clerk", as you put it.</dd> <dd>The RfC was done incorrectly on multiple levels, and my DRN attempted to bring non-biased third party arbitrators into the discussion. Frankly I'd love to be uninvolved because I'm tired of feeling threatened. <a href="/wiki/User:Lincoln2020" title="User:Lincoln2020">Lincoln2020</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Lincoln2020" title="User talk:Lincoln2020">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Lincoln2020-20250224160000-Simonm223-20250223193000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:00, 24 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>And to anyone else seeing this for the first time, sorry for the exasperation evident in my response. His recent post and subsequent posts and threats on Gulf of Mexico including his "Moratorium on this nonsense" are extremely rude and condescending. To constantly start off conversations with the faulty premise that anyone else's views are "nonsense" should be universally accepted to be inappropriate here. <a href="/wiki/User:Lincoln2020" title="User:Lincoln2020">Lincoln2020</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Lincoln2020" title="User talk:Lincoln2020">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Lincoln2020-20250224160200-Lincoln2020-20250224160000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:02, 24 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd> <dd><a class="external free" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard/Archive_254#Gulf_of_Mexico">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard/Archive_254#Gulf_of_Mexico</a>, for convenience of editors. <a href="/wiki/User:C809" title="User:C809">✏️ C809 ⌨️</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:C809" title="User talk:C809">let's chat</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-C809-20250223211000-Lincoln2020-20250223191200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:10, 23 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>I guess the question now is will Lincoln2020 drop the stick or should we start looking at a boomerang? <a href="/wiki/User:Simonm223" title="User:Simonm223">Simonm223</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Simonm223" title="User talk:Simonm223">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Simonm223-20250223214600-C809-20250223211000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:46, 23 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>I don't quite understand why this DRN request was closed and archived so quickly. <a href="/wiki/User:Liz" title="User:Liz">Liz</a> <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Liz" title="Special:Contributions/Liz">Read!</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Liz" title="User talk:Liz">Talk!</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Liz-20250223222800-Simonm223-20250223214600" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:28, 23 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Probably because DRN explicitly cannot be used to overturned RfC results. <a href="/wiki/User:Simonm223" title="User:Simonm223">Simonm223</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Simonm223" title="User talk:Simonm223">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Simonm223-20250223231200-Liz-20250223222800" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:12, 23 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd> <dd>While it's not really the topic of this complaint, although I guess it kind of is, the point of the argument in the DRN is that proper protocol for an RfC was not followed, and in fact it appears, at least to me, that an RfC wasn't actually done. So, if an RfC wasn't actually run (because the alleged RfC was run incorrectly), then why wouldn't a DRN be the place to look at that?</dd> <dd>The RfC wasn't in the archives and didn't appear to follow procedures. That said, I haven't actually seen anywhere in the rules for DRN that you can't ask for resolution on something if an RfC is present (but of course I may be ignorant of the fact). Further, as stated in this complaint, I'm really concerned that, instead of helping like the DRN rules state, personal attacks were made. If there's a better place to contest what I believe to be a faulty and potentially incorrectly run RfC, the DRN rules state volunteers should point me in the right direction. Frankly I have no idea if there's a better place, and none of their attacks helped me understand better. <a href="/wiki/User:Lincoln2020" title="User:Lincoln2020">Lincoln2020</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Lincoln2020" title="User talk:Lincoln2020">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Lincoln2020-20250224154700-Liz-20250223222800" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:47, 24 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd> <dd>I actually agree with <a href="/wiki/User:Lincoln2020" title="User:Lincoln2020">Lincoln2020</a>. <a href="/wiki/User:Simonm223" title="User:Simonm223">Simonm223</a>, you haven't followed our civility policies at <a href="/wiki/Talk:Gulf_of_Mexico" title="Talk:Gulf of Mexico">Talk:Gulf of Mexico</a> and reading your edit history, you consistently use threats to get your way with new editors. You started off the recent "Moratorium on this nonsense" section by saying:<a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Gulf_of_Mexico&diff=prev&oldid=1275179655">[39]</a></dd> <dd><style data-mw-deduplicate="TemplateStyles:r1237805129">.mw-parser-output .talkquote{color:var(--color-base,#202122);background-color:#eaf8f4;border-left:3px solid #008560;padding:0 .8em;margin:0}.mw-parser-output .talkquote-by,.mw-parser-output .talkquote-source{margin-left:1.6em}.mw-parser-output .skin-vector-2022 .talkquote>:last-child{padding-bottom:0}@media screen{html.skin-theme-clientpref-night .mw-parser-output .talkquote{background-color:#0d261f}}@media screen and (prefers-color-scheme:dark){html.skin-theme-clientpref-os .mw-parser-output .talkquote{background-color:#0d261f}}</style><blockquote class="talkquote">I think we're going to be stuck fielding whatabouts from the people who erroneously believe that the United States should be allowed to rewrite reality like O'Brien from 1984 for a very long time if we don't start aggressively clerking this page.</blockquote></dd> <dd>Saying that editors who disagree with you are like the bad guys in 1984 is textbook <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:BATTLEGROUND" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:BATTLEGROUND">WP:BATTLEGROUND</a> behaviour. You then said to Lincoln2020 that:<a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Gulf_of_Mexico&diff=prev&oldid=1275392859">[40]</a></dd> <dd><link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1237805129" /><blockquote class="talkquote">Wikipedia isn't debate club. Tendentious argument about a closed RfC is disruptive.</blockquote></dd> <dd>You can't start a discussion about a moratorium and accuse editors of being disruptive for opposing that moratorium. The fact you proposed banning additional discussions shows that you don't believe the consensus is obvious. Accusing Lincoln2020 of being disruptive for going to the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard" title="Wikipedia:Dispute resolution noticeboard">WP:dispute resolution noticeboard</a> is uncivil for the same reasons.<a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard&diff=prev&oldid=1276541184">[41]</a> They're a new editor, and instead of going in circles with you, Lincoln2020 sought outside opinions from others at DRN. That is exactly the kind of mentality we should be encouraging, but you refused to <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:AGF" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:AGF">WP:AGF</a> and accused them of being tendentious. Even if it was procedurally incorrect, I don't see how it was disruptive.</dd> <dd>To expand, at <a href="/wiki/Talk:Soka_School_System" title="Talk:Soka School System">Talk:Soka School System</a> less than a week ago, you resorted to threats in an attempt to resolve a dispute between two inexperienced editors:<a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Soka_School_System&oldid=1276845230">[42]</a></dd> <dd><link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1237805129" /><blockquote class="talkquote">@Raoul mishima and @Kelvintjy you are both engaged in a slow-motion edit war. I am going to revert this page into whatever version it was in before the two of you started. If you continue edit warring after that point I will be filing a report to WP:ANEW regarding both of you. Please come to talk and discuss your edits.</blockquote></dd> <dd>Followed by:</dd> <dd><link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1237805129" /><blockquote class="talkquote">OK, seriously, both of you are just talking past each other and casting aspersions. Frankly I'm starting to wonder if the best solution would be for both of you to accept a voluntary edit restriction from anything to do with Japanese New Religious Movements.</blockquote></dd> <dd>You are not an admin and that talk page was not an AE thread. You are not empowered to threaten editing restrictions. Even if you were an admin, I would consider it poor judgement to immediately move to a harsh threatening tone with two editors who have clearly never heard of the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Edit_warring" title="Wikipedia:Edit warring">WP:edit warring</a> policy (because anyone who had would've run to <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:ANEW" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:ANEW">WP:ANEW</a> by that point). But in this case, you're using your understanding of our policies and guidelines to put yourself in a position of authority/power over editors who are unfamiliar with them, a role the community never granted you. Experienced editors that imply "I know how to work the system, so you'll do what I say" is what turns a lot of people off from this website.</dd> <dd>I can give more examples, like when a certain user assumed that you were an admin, and you replied <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1248585704" /><q class="inline-quote-talk">Please note that, while I am a very experienced editor, I have chosen not to be an admin at this time</q> to imply that you're so experienced, you basically could be an admin if you really wanted to.<a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Melledelle&diff=prev&oldid=1271541389">[43]</a> You then mentioned their faulty assumption of your admin status as a <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Competence_is_required" title="Wikipedia:Competence is required">WP:competence is required</a> violation when taking that user to <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:AE" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:AE">WP:AE</a>.<a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive347#Melledelle">[44]</a> If another editor assumes you're an admin, you should politely correct them, not imply you have the social status of an admin without actually being one.</dd> <dd>Or finally, when you give "some private advice" at <a href="/wiki/User_talk:YuelinLee1959" title="User talk:YuelinLee1959">User talk:YuelinLee1959</a> in November of last year <a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:YuelinLee1959&oldid=1256004843">[45]</a> that:</dd> <dd><link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1237805129" /><blockquote class="talkquote">As a friendly word of advice, I'd suggest you go and do some editing somewhere that isn't culture-war adjacent video game articles... Experienced editors are likely to start suggesting you are <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:NOTHERE" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:NOTHERE">not really interested in the project of building an encyclopedia.</a> I'd gently suggest you visit <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:PUMP" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:PUMP">WP:PUMP</a> and do some reading on participation in Wikipedia including basic policies such as <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:RS" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:RS">WP:RS</a> instead of keeping an AN/I thread unnecessarily alive.</blockquote></dd> <dd>When you assert "experienced editors are likely to start suggesting you're <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:NOTHERE" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:NOTHERE">WP:NOTHERE</a>", you're implying that editors with more social capital will try to get that editor blocked if they don't get out of the topic area. Like, when you say "it'd be better for you if you leave this area" and make reference to a misfortune this editor might encounter, that is a veiled threat in the style of a movie.</dd> <dd>These are all in the last four months. Threatening/intimidating new editors is a violation of the civility policy, regardless of whether you are "right" about the underlying conduct/content issues.</dd> <dd>Full disclosure to admins, I disagree with Simonm223 in the underlying content dispute at <a href="/wiki/Talk:Gulf_of_Mexico" title="Talk:Gulf of Mexico">Talk:Gulf of Mexico</a> so I am involved. <a href="/wiki/User:Liz" title="User:Liz">Liz</a>, what do you think? <a href="/wiki/User:Chess" title="User:Chess">Chess</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Chess" title="User talk:Chess">talk</a>) (please <a href="/wiki/Help:Talk_pages#Notifications" title="Help:Talk pages">mention</a> me on reply) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Chess-20250224015300-Lincoln2020-20250223191200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:53, 24 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Well, I think any discussion of this incident has to involve <a href="/wiki/User:Kovcszaln6" title="User:Kovcszaln6">User:Kovcszaln6</a> who closed the DRN and asserted that if the editor persisted they could "expect to be blocked". I do think this is pretty damning evidence against Simonm223 but I'd like to hear his response to this. I've noticed Simonm223 became more assertive and active in administrative activities after the ARBCOM2024 elections and, for my part, I've generally appreciated his increased involvement. And I think editors that work in contentious areas like American politics, where there are a lot of drive-by new editors, can easily become impatient with newbies that arrive with the similar questions that have been debated before. But we can't be BITEY even when we hear the same argument for the Nth time. If editors do not have the patience for this, they should find other areas of the project to work in.</dd> <dd>I will just add that this is just my opinion as an editor/admin. It's recently been suggested to me that I become less involved in noticeboard discussions since I'm serving on the Committee now and my remarks reflect my opinion on general editor conduct, not an opinion on disputes in this subject area. <a href="/wiki/User:Liz" title="User:Liz">Liz</a> <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Liz" title="Special:Contributions/Liz">Read!</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Liz" title="User talk:Liz">Talk!</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Liz-20250224023300-Chess-20250224015300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:33, 24 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Kovcszaln6 wasn't notified of this discussion so I have done so. <a href="/wiki/User:Liz" title="User:Liz">Liz</a> <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Liz" title="Special:Contributions/Liz">Read!</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Liz" title="User talk:Liz">Talk!</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Liz-20250224023700-Liz-20250224023300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:37, 24 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Notified the people that I mentioned as being threatened.<a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:YuelinLee1959&diff=prev&oldid=1277345169">[46]</a><a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Melledelle&diff=prev&oldid=1277345338">[47]</a><a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Raoul_mishima&diff=prev&oldid=1277345630">[48]</a><a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Kelvintjy&diff=prev&oldid=1277345675">[49]</a> <a href="/wiki/User:Chess" title="User:Chess">Chess</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Chess" title="User talk:Chess">talk</a>) (please <a href="/wiki/Help:Talk_pages#Notifications" title="Help:Talk pages">mention</a> me on reply) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Chess-20250224031700-Liz-20250224023700" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">03:17, 24 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd> <dd>I do apologize for what I've said. It was incivil, and I should not have said that. However, DRN is not the right place to overturn the closure of the RfC nor discussing about the proposed moratorium. <a href="/wiki/User:Kovcszaln6" title="User:Kovcszaln6">Kovcszaln6</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Kovcszaln6" title="User talk:Kovcszaln6">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Kovcszaln6-20250224151800-Liz-20250224023700" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:18, 24 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Thank you, Kovcszaln6. I'm not trying to be difficult, or a d***. I just don't think it was done correctly, and wanted another opinion / someone from the outside to come and look in on the process. I thought DRN was the right place to do so. <a href="/wiki/User:Lincoln2020" title="User:Lincoln2020">Lincoln2020</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Lincoln2020" title="User talk:Lincoln2020">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Lincoln2020-20250224160500-Kovcszaln6-20250224151800" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:05, 24 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd> <dd>I'd like to point out that Kovcszaln6 was notified (at least on my end, with a refresh, it was present) - I'm not sure if he removed it from his talk page perhaps. I made sure to do that for both of them since they rushed to close my DRN over the technicality that I did in fact then miss the memo on notifying everyone (and I did run into 1 issue with Kov's page automatically classifying the notification as spam, so I tried it again and it appeared successful). <a href="/wiki/User:Lincoln2020" title="User:Lincoln2020">Lincoln2020</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Lincoln2020" title="User talk:Lincoln2020">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Lincoln2020-20250224155600-Liz-20250224023700" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:56, 24 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>You didn't put the notice on his talk page, you put it on his user page. You also did that to Simonm223. --<a href="/wiki/User:Super_Goku_V" title="User:Super Goku V">Super Goku V</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Super_Goku_V" title="User talk:Super Goku V">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Super_Goku_V-20250225103700-Lincoln2020-20250224155600" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">10:37, 25 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Ah, got it. Thanks. <a href="/wiki/User:Lincoln2020" title="User:Lincoln2020">Lincoln2020</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Lincoln2020" title="User talk:Lincoln2020">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Lincoln2020-20250225141200-Super_Goku_V-20250225103700" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">14:12, 25 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd> <dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:Liz" title="User:Liz">Liz</a>: <a href="/wiki/Soka_School_System" title="Soka School System">Soka School System</a> is not under <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:CTOP" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:CTOP">WP:CTOP</a>, despite being the most egregious example. That is what makes me concerned that this is something more than the average contentious topics civility violation. <a href="/wiki/User:Chess" title="User:Chess">Chess</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Chess" title="User talk:Chess">talk</a>) (please <a href="/wiki/Help:Talk_pages#Notifications" title="Help:Talk pages">mention</a> me on reply) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Chess-20250224042500-Liz-20250224023300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">04:25, 24 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Can you checked the the incident that involved <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Raoul_mishima&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Raoul mishima (page does not exist)">Raoul mishima</a> and me? Until now, he is still making edit after MIA for a few days to weeks before making a lot of edit after making may editor to lose interest to talking with him? Until now, no action is being taken. Even <a href="/wiki/User:Aaron_Liu" title="User:Aaron Liu"> Aaron Liu</a> suggested that I be banned from editing in all <a href="/wiki/Soka_Gakkai" title="Soka Gakkai">Soka Gakkai</a> or <a href="/wiki/Daisaku_Ikeda" title="Daisaku Ikeda">Daisaku Ikeda</a> related article. That's mean you all need to ban me from more than 30 related articles that are related. [<a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Incidents#Raoul_mishima_and_Kelvintjy_-_slow_edit_warring_and_non-communicativeness%7CIncidents">[50]</a>] <a href="/wiki/User:Kelvintjy" title="User:Kelvintjy">Kelvintjy</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Kelvintjy" title="User talk:Kelvintjy">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Kelvintjy-20250226025900-Chess-20250224042500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:59, 26 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>1. <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Topic_ban" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:Topic ban">WP:Topic bans</a> are not enforced by the software. How they work is that if you violate the ban, someone will block you manually. 2. Chess is not an admin. <a href="/wiki/User:Aaron_Liu" title="User:Aaron Liu">Aaron Liu</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Aaron_Liu#top" title="User talk:Aaron Liu">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Aaron_Liu-20250226030900-Kelvintjy-20250226025900" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">03:09, 26 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd><a href="/wiki/User:Kelvintjy" title="User:Kelvintjy">Kelvintjy</a>, you stuck an unrelated comment in the middle of a very long discussion that is on the verge of being closed any time now. I'm shocked that Aaron even noticed your remark. I'd advise you to respond to the existing discussion about the dispute you are in the middle of or start a new discussion thread. This one is not about your problem. <a href="/wiki/User:Liz" title="User:Liz">Liz</a> <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Liz" title="Special:Contributions/Liz">Read!</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Liz" title="User talk:Liz">Talk!</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Liz-20250226031700-Aaron_Liu-20250226030900" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">03:17, 26 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>I mean, I was pinged. <a href="/wiki/User:Aaron_Liu" title="User:Aaron Liu">Aaron Liu</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Aaron_Liu#top" title="User talk:Aaron Liu">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Aaron_Liu-20250226122900-Liz-20250226031700" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">12:29, 26 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd> <dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:Chess" title="User:Chess">Chess</a>, I disagree with the aspects related to the Gulf of America/Mexico dispute. Regarding the quote of <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1248585704" /><q class="inline-quote-talk inline-quote-talk-marks">Wikipedia isn't debate club. Tendentious argument about a closed RfC is disruptive.</q>, this is in response to Lincoln2020's comment that claimed that users abused the RfC process in a prior discussion. This didn't have much to do with the current discussion of putting a moratorium on the subject for a period of time.</dd> <dd>Regarding your claim that <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1248585704" /><q class="inline-quote-talk inline-quote-talk-marks">The fact you proposed banning additional discussions shows that you don't believe the consensus is obvious.</q> is a borderline false accusation. You claim that another user is acting in bad faith to shut down discussions because you believe that they think there isn't actually a consensus regarding the dispute. This is your claim despite there now being 90 archived discussion in the last two months that mainly talk about changing the article name or some other edit to the article regarding the Gulf of America executive order. This despite the repeated vandalism leading to the talk page getting semi protecting more than once. This despite known canvassing on the talk page. This despite users being banned for their actions that have broken our rules and guidelines. Maybe Chess, it is the disruption on the talk page that has lead to the moratorium discussion. (As an aside, I would advise that you strike out that text, unless you plan to back up your allegation.)</dd> <dd>Regarding <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1248585704" /><q class="inline-quote-talk inline-quote-talk-marks">Saying that editors who disagree with you are like the bad guys in 1984 is textbook WP:BATTLEGROUND behaviour</q>, I believe you should re-look at that sentence as you would see that Simonm223 claimed the US is rewriting reality, not editors they disagree with. <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1248585704" /><q class="inline-quote-talk">I think we're going to be stuck fielding whatabouts from the people who erroneously believe that the United States should be allowed to rewrite reality like O'Brien from 1984 for a very long time if we don't start aggressively clerking this page. (Both emphasis mine.)</q> From my perspective, Simonm223's words are that the US is the one rewriting reality, not the editors. I believe you still have a claim that the comment as posted still should not have been posted, but the framing that Simonm223 is saying that those people are like the bad guys feels off in my opinion. --<a href="/wiki/User:Super_Goku_V" title="User:Super Goku V">Super Goku V</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Super_Goku_V" title="User talk:Super Goku V">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Super_Goku_V-20250225094800-Chess-20250224015300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">09:48, 25 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd> <dd>     Finally, your text regarding Lincoln2020 doing the right thing is very incorrect in my personal opinion. In fact, I would suggest that we should not be encouraging Lincoln2020's behavior with any sort of praise or positivity. To start with the 12th, Lincoln2020 made 11 minor edits in a span of 19 minutes to a variety of articles, granting them <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:AUTOCONFIRM" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:AUTOCONFIRM">AUTOCONFIRM</a> status. Lincoln2020 then proceeds to edit <a href="/wiki/Talk:Gulf_of_Mexico" title="Talk:Gulf of Mexico">Talk:Gulf of Mexico</a> 12 times in a span of under four hours, which was at the time and currently is semi-protected. (Per <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:PGAME" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:PGAME">WP:PGAME</a>, editors are not permitted to make trivial edits in order to gain the autoconfirmed or extended confirmed rights.) As for their edits to the talk page, you have their first edit which is <a href="/wiki/Special:Diff/1275368000" title="Special:Diff/1275368000">their accusations that others are committing wrongdoing:</a> <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1248585704" /><q class="inline-quote-talk inline-quote-talk-marks">This attempt to artificially halt debate reveals a concerning pattern of selective policy enforcement that undermines Wikipedia's collaborative foundation. When other geographical name changes occurred (Denali, etc), these same advocates rapidly implemented updates, citing WP:COMMONNAME as justification. Now, faced with a naming convention that doesn't align with their preferences, they're attempting to manipulate process controls to prevent legitimate discourse, misusing the term "consensus" in the process. (Emphasis mine.)</q> Their next reply was <a href="/wiki/Special:Diff/1275391196" title="Special:Diff/1275391196">to tell Valereee to assume good faith</a> when she was attempting to determine who directed a user to participate in the moratorium discussion, which <a href="/wiki/Special:Diff/1275393465" title="Special:Diff/1275393465">did lead to them apologizing to Valereee later on when she pointed it out.</a> Speaking of Valereee, when she pointed out the PGAME issue, <a href="/wiki/Special:Diff/1275391369" title="Special:Diff/1275391369">Lincoln2020 replied to her with the following:</a> <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1248585704" /><q class="inline-quote-talk inline-quote-talk-marks">Please let me know which of my points are illogical or invalid, otherwise let's perhaps stop with the ad hominems.</q></dd> <dd>To speed this up a bit, <a href="/wiki/Special:Diff/1275391970" title="Special:Diff/1275391970">Lincoln2020's fourth non-minor edit to the talk page was more allegations of wrongdoing by others and some uncivility:</a> <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1248585704" /><q class="inline-quote-talk inline-quote-talk-marks">If debate were 'allowed' (...) one side of this debate has been engaging in abuses of the process (...) when in fact they were thinly veiled partisan attacks. (...) there is most definitely a compromise and consensus to be made amongst reasonable people. (Emphasis mine.)</q> Sixth edit was the claim that there was no consensus nine days after the RfC closed: <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1248585704" /><q class="inline-quote-talk inline-quote-talk-marks">And also, the entire point is that a consensus hasn't been made. A consensus would look like "Gulf of Mexico (Gulf of America)" with some acknowledgement of the fact that the largest map source in the world, all official sources of the government with the largest population and control of the body of water, and the only English-speaking nation bordering the body of water, all call it "Gulf of America". (...) It's clear something has to give, and some compromise has to be made ... the inability to make any compromise at all is the antithesis of "consensus".</q> Eight was <a href="/wiki/Special:Diff/1275394935" title="Special:Diff/1275394935">saying in the moratorium discussion that the article should be renamed per COMMONNAME.</a> (Again, the RfC had been closed for nine days at this point.) Their tenth and final non-minor edit that day was a reply after they were told by Simonm223 that they were <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1248585704" /><q class="inline-quote-talk inline-quote-talk-marks">litigating a closed RfC</q> and that they thought Lincoln2020 had reached the point of disruptive editing and told by Departure– that <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1248585704" /><q class="inline-quote-talk inline-quote-talk-marks">(...) consensus will not be made by re-opening an RFC.</q> <a href="/wiki/Special:Diff/1275396022" title="Special:Diff/1275396022">Lincoln2020 used their reply to mention that Google claimed there had been double the publications for Gulf of America over Gulf of Mexico</a> before ending with this: <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1248585704" /><q class="inline-quote-talk inline-quote-talk-marks">Like it or not, a moratorium seems to be a desperate attempt to delay the inevitable. We're going to have to come to a consensus, so why is one side of this argument so unwilling to make any compromise? (Emphasis mine.)</q></dd> <dd>Lincoln2020 would leave the talk page briefly at that point, but returned on the 18th twice more with additional uncivil behavior and allegations. <a href="/wiki/Special:Diff/1276409279" title="Special:Diff/1276409279">First edit from the 18th:</a> <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1248585704" /><q class="inline-quote-talk inline-quote-talk-marks">(...) Also, there very clearly is no consensus to do nothing. Just saying it doesn't make it true; there was not vote, poll, or otherwise, just a pretty typical ultra-political push from Wikipedians void of logic or actual efforts to find consensus which destroys people's trust in the platform. (Emphasis mine.)</q> <a href="/wiki/Special:Diff/1276409618" title="Special:Diff/1276409618">Second edit from the 18th:</a> <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1248585704" /><q class="inline-quote-talk inline-quote-talk-marks">This, of course, is spot on, and far too rational for this discussion.</q> After that, <a href="/wiki/Special:Diff/1276537810" title="Special:Diff/1276537810">they went to DRN the next day</a> where they claimed Valereee closed the RfC improperly and made "some policy violations." When the DRN was closed as out of process and they were warned that their behavior up to this point might lead to a block, they went silent until 48 hours ago. In that time, they told Simonm223 that <a href="/wiki/Special:Diff/1277275658" title="Special:Diff/1277275658">"your opinion is meaningless"</a>; made this discussion; improperly edited the user pages of Simonm223 and Kovcszaln6; <a href="/wiki/Special:Diff/1277424308" title="Special:Diff/1277424308">Simultaneously claim that "an RfC wasn't actually done" and that the RfC "didn't appear to follow procedures" along with accusing users of attacks</a>; <a href="/wiki/Special:Diff/1277425829" title="Special:Diff/1277425829">they go after Simonm223 again with claims that they are being silenced by Simonm223 and add an additional claim regarding the RfC, "[t]he RfC was done incorrectly on multiple levels"</a>; and finally <a href="/wiki/Special:Diff/1277426915" title="Special:Diff/1277426915">claiming Simonm223 was uncivil at the Gulf of Mexico talk page, ending with the following:</a> <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1248585704" /><q class="inline-quote-talk inline-quote-talk-marks">To constantly start off conversations with the faulty premise that anyone else's views are "nonsense" should be universally accepted to be inappropriate here.</q></dd> <dd>Chess, I don't see much in the way of encouraging here with most of it being disruptive. Most of what I have seen is evidence that they need to take at least a month away from <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:CT/AP" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:CT/AP">American politics</a>, possibly longer. The only encouraging edits were the few they have made to articles, though most of the edits were minor with at least one that can be considered partially reverted. If you want to continue your complaint against Simonm223, then you obviously can continue, but I think you should consider not referring to things involving both Simonm223 and Lincoln2020. Additionally, you might want to re-review the other editors you believe that they threatened or intimidated to ensure that there are no similar problems. --<a href="/wiki/User:Super_Goku_V" title="User:Super Goku V">Super Goku V</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Super_Goku_V" title="User talk:Super Goku V">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Super_Goku_V-20250225094800-Chess-20250224015300-1" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">09:48, 25 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Can confirm that it is difficult to stick to neutral language when a faulty premise is included in a moratorium post ("moratorium on this nonsense"). I suppose coming here or reporting the abuses I was seeing would have been better than discussing them on the "talk" page first, although I suppose I still believe that a "talk" page is still a good place to "talk" about things like that. Ultimately I did attempt to create a DRN to bring some neutrality into the conversation as it was obviously heated and contentious.</dd> <dd>I was forced to come here with my complaints, and I stick by the complaints. I wholeheartedly believe that some people, including Simonm223, are attempting to abuse the process by attacking people and abusing processes (like biased moratorium arguments), and the "aggressive clerking" threats make that pretty clear, in my opinion. This was made even more clear when they inappropriately closed my attempt to have the DRN help the situation.</dd> <dd>So from my perspective, I've attempted this whole time to use the processes that Wikipedia gives us to use in order to settle contentious debates. Meanwhile others have used condescending, threatening, and abusive language consistently. I want to have these issues arbitrated and believe the greater Wiki community can help make the discussions constructive, while they seem to prefer anyone who disagrees with them stop participating. <a href="/wiki/User:Lincoln2020" title="User:Lincoln2020">Lincoln2020</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Lincoln2020" title="User talk:Lincoln2020">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Lincoln2020-20250225142200-Super_Goku_V-20250225094800" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">14:22, 25 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Also, rereading this ... it seems as though Super Goku V is trying to frame my true statements (generally responses to what I believe are policy violations and intimidation tactics) as the issue.</dd> <dd>A saying comes to mind: "The truth is an absolute defense against defamation." Likewise, I believe my statements are accurate and the facts will show them to be; perhaps one or two have some opinion behind them, but reading over many of the comments in Gulf of Mexico, I still wholeheartedly believe most reasonable people would agree that the conversation is politicized and out of control (hence starting my quashed DRN). Most of those opinions - of which I am allowed to have even if you don't agree with them - were not geared toward any one person, and were civil. I believe the only one which was perhaps not was in response to an editor who took to my talk page to threaten me, and I replied that their threats won't intimidate me. I then immediately came here.</dd> <dd>"To constantly start off conversations with the faulty premise that anyone else's views are "nonsense" should be universally accepted to be inappropriate here." - I would love to know how this opinion is "uncivil" as you claim so that I can correct it and make it more civil. I'll add that in the actual post accompanying that title, they compared those who disagree with them with villains from 1984, used phrases like "erroneously believe", and threatened to "aggressively clerk" people. <a href="/wiki/User:Lincoln2020" title="User:Lincoln2020">Lincoln2020</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Lincoln2020" title="User talk:Lincoln2020">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Lincoln2020-20250225145900-Lincoln2020-20250225142200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">14:59, 25 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Lincoln2020, I believe you are part of the issue and are partly at fault here. I personally believe your actions qualify for a <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:BOOMERANG" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:BOOMERANG">BOOMERANG</a>. To give you an explanation of what I am referring to: <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Don%27t_shoot_yourself_in_the_foot#Background" title="Wikipedia:Don't shoot yourself in the foot">In other cases, a person might complain about another editor's behavior in an incident, yet during the events of that incident they've committed far worse infractions themselves. In both cases, such editors will usually find sanctions brought against themselves rather than the people they've sought to report.</a> Basically, I don't think you have clean hands here and have not followed <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Civility" title="Wikipedia:Civility">Civility</a>. Reading your first reply says that you had a difficult time sticking to using neutral language and an admission that the discussion was heated and contentious, before backtracking in your second reply by saying that most of your opinions were civil. You can try to claim that 'your true statements' were without issue, but I have linked to most of your replies above and given reasons as to why they were problematic.</dd> <dd>If you claim that the issue of "stick[ing] to neutral language" was only when you participated in the discussion at Talk:Gulf of Mexico, then why were there issues I linked above from your talk page with your reply to Simonm223 and linked from this discussion? Can you address them? Your claim that you went to DRN for neutrality. I can agree that you went there to try to get some sort of resolution and for help on the situation. However, can you clarify <a href="/wiki/Special:Diff/1276539346" title="Special:Diff/1276539346">this edit then? It is the one where you added Chess and Chessrat as involved users.</a> I don't see how they were tied to your dispute resolution regarding either the RfC or the moratorium when it looks like they never replied to you on the talk page. Am I missing something obvious here?</dd> <dd>I am asking these questions because my perspective does not agree with <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1248585704" /><q class="inline-quote-talk">I've attempted this whole time to use the processes that Wikipedia gives us to use in order to settle contentious debates.</q> In my view, your words have been contentious and have crossed the line at times into <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:UNCIVIL" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:UNCIVIL">uncivil behavior</a>. You didn't have <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:CLEANHANDS" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:CLEANHANDS">CLEANHANDS</a> when starting the DRN process. Plus, even in these response you still seem to have an Us vs. Them mentality. You keep going after other users rather than addressing your own behavior. Personally, I don't believe you have gotten a grasp of how <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Contentious_topics" title="Wikipedia:Contentious topics">Contentious topics</a> work on Wikipedia. I believe you should avoid <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Contentious_topics/American_politics" title="Wikipedia:Contentious topics/American politics">American politics that are considered contentious topics</a> for a month or more and focus on other parts of the Wiki. I don't think you are ready for it based on your responses. --<a href="/wiki/User:Super_Goku_V" title="User:Super Goku V">Super Goku V</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Super_Goku_V" title="User talk:Super Goku V">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Super_Goku_V-20250226004100-Lincoln2020-20250225145900" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:41, 26 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd></dl></dd> <dd>I don't think Lincoln2020 is entirely without blame. Many of the new editors that Simonm223 has interacted with in negative ways have had issues. But at the same time, if another editor is violating guidelines, threatening is not an appropriate response. Ignoring the interactions between Simonm223 and Lincoln2020 because both parties have been uncivil isn't a good mentality. <ul><li>With respect to the specific points you make, Lincoln2020 did not violate <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:PGAME" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:PGAME">WP:PGAME</a>. My experience at <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:AE" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:AE">WP:AE</a> is that making simple-but-constructive edits is not permission gaming. <a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive344#Butterscotch_Beluga">[51]</a></li> <li>I never said the moratorium was an attempt to shut down discussions in bad faith. I agree that there should be a discussion on the moratorium before its actually enforced, but that calling people disruptive for opposing the moratorium at that discussion is unjustified.</li> <li>So Simonm223 didn't accuse others of literally being 1984. They implied that other editors supported a 1984-like situation. That's still wrong.</li> <li>Arguing that a proposal would selectively enforce our policies is a valid criticism to make in a content dispute. When Lincoln2020 accused someone of intentionally manipulating the system, that was disruptive. However, simply calling out a double standard is not, because a double standard can happen for a variety of good-faith reasons including <a href="/wiki/Implicit_bias" class="mw-redirect" title="Implicit bias">implicit bias</a>.</li></ul></dd> <dd>However, what our policies consistently tell editors to do when encountering uncivil or disruptive behaviour is to bring it to <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration_Enforcement" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration Enforcement">WP:Arbitration Enforcement</a>/<a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:DRAMABOARD" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:DRAMABOARD">WP:DRAMABOARD</a>. Responding yourself with incivility is generally not acceptable. You haven't really shown anything in your comments except "Lincoln2020 is also at fault", I don't really see you defending what Simonm223 has said in the many other examples I've provided either. I regularly see the mentality in contentious areas that because someone else is doing something wrong, a specific editor should be let off the hook. I am dismissive of that because it turns topic areas into vast wastelands where it is considered acceptable behaviour for editors to violate the rules to gain an advantage solely because others do it as well. <a href="/wiki/User:Chess" title="User:Chess">Chess</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Chess" title="User talk:Chess">talk</a>) (please <a href="/wiki/Help:Talk_pages#Notifications" title="Help:Talk pages">mention</a> me on reply) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Chess-20250225175500-Super_Goku_V-20250225094800" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:55, 25 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>In reverse order to address something: <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1248585704" /><q class="inline-quote-talk">I don't really see you defending what Simonm223 has said in the many other examples I've provided either.</q> I do not understand why you said this. I already said at the start of the two replies that I was posting with regard to the aspects related to the Gulf of America/Mexico dispute. I never touched upon anything outside of the Gulf talk pages for a reason as I did not participate at those other venues nor do I have any familiarity with their subjects to my current knowledge. I wrote at the end of the two replies that you could still continue your complaint, but you should consider not focusing on the stuff involving both Simonm223 and Lincoln2020 and that, if you did, you should re-review the situations with the other editors to ensure that there were not similar issues that I felt diminished your arguments. To go back to normal order, if you don't feel that it is a good mentality to put it to the side, then fine, but I feel that it bogs things down when it isn't as cut and dry. At the least, it shouldn't be the focus if this goes elsewhere.</dd> <dd>Looking at that AE thread, one of the points I am seeing is that there was significant substance in their edits and that they were not trivial ones. As I mentioned, the edits made above were primarily minor ones with at least one reverted. <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3AContributions&target=Lincoln2020&namespace=0&tagfilter=&start=2025-02-10&end=2025-02-12&limit=25">You can review them here,</a> but I still say that they are minor overall like "balanced with production" → "balanced by the production" or changing "pre-Cambrian" → "precambrian" and getting indirectly reverted the following day. (Additionally, if they kept making those changes then it wouldn't be gaming, but they stopped an edit after they received the permission and have made only three other edits to the mainspace since. I don't think it fits with what Seraphimblade said in that case.)</dd> <dd>Chess, how else am I suppose to take, "<link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1248585704" /><q class="inline-quote-talk">The fact you proposed banning additional discussions shows that you don't believe the consensus is obvious</q>?" Your prior sentence mentions Simonm223 starting the moratorium discussion, which I feel is reflected in the 'you proposed banning additional discussions' part. The only other reading I can possibly see is that your saying that he doesn't believe the consensus is obvious in regards to the moratorium discussion itself, which hasn't closed yet at the present time.</dd> <dd>I agree with your third bullet-point, though am slightly confused by you telling me that it is still wrong. Again, my wording above was that I thought you still could have a claim here that the comments should not have been posted. I was disagreeing with you on how it was framed.</dd> <dd>I believe your fourth bullet point is about the DRN discussion. If so, I have two problems with it. First is that it was the third time they had gone after another user in a week, this being Valereee. The second is alleging that she had somehow improperly concluded the RfC while simultaneously claiming that there never was an RfC. Even yesterday they said, <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1248585704" /><q class="inline-quote-talk inline-quote-talk-marks">and in fact it appears, at least to me, that an RfC wasn't actually done.</q> How can a user claim that someone violated policy when they closed an RfC and then go on to say that there was never an RfC in the first place?</dd> <dd>Anyways to wrap up, I don't fully agree with your take on Simonm223 above, but that's just my opinion. I do hope you will consider what I wrote at the least going forward. --<a href="/wiki/User:Super_Goku_V" title="User:Super Goku V">Super Goku V</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Super_Goku_V" title="User talk:Super Goku V">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Super_Goku_V-20250225232400-Chess-20250225175500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:24, 25 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd> <dd>One thing I don't understand, why do we say everywhere like the FAQ and in the closed DRN that there was consensus against including it in the lead when the closing statement was no consensus? <a href="/wiki/User:Nil_Einne" title="User:Nil Einne">Nil Einne</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Nil_Einne" title="User talk:Nil Einne">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Nil_Einne-20250224041000-Lincoln2020-20250223191200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">04:10, 24 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Never mind I worked it out. The closing statement was later modified but for some reason the FAQ still links to the original one. I'm fairly sure this is causing a lot of confusion so can someone fix this ASAP? I'm on mobile and so can't be bothered finding the right permalink. <a href="/wiki/User:Nil_Einne" title="User:Nil Einne">Nil Einne</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Nil_Einne" title="User talk:Nil Einne">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Nil_Einne-20250224041900-Nil_Einne-20250224041000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">04:19, 24 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>I've fixed it myself now that I'm on desktop. <a href="/wiki/User:Nil_Einne" title="User:Nil Einne">Nil Einne</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Nil_Einne" title="User talk:Nil Einne">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Nil_Einne-20250224083900-Nil_Einne-20250224041900" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">08:39, 24 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd> <dd>Ah, fudge. That was my fault. I never considered changing the link when I edited the FAQ text. --<a href="/wiki/User:Super_Goku_V" title="User:Super Goku V">Super Goku V</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Super_Goku_V" title="User talk:Super Goku V">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Super_Goku_V-20250225054700-Nil_Einne-20250224041900" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">05:47, 25 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Stuff happens and it's probably not as bad as I feared. Main reason I thought it was causing a lot of confusion beyond myself was because I saw a lot of people referring to no consensus in the moratorium proposal, but I later realised that most or all of these came before the clarification (and in fact these comments moratorium seems to have been one of the reasons for the clarification). <a href="/wiki/User:Nil_Einne" title="User:Nil Einne">Nil Einne</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Nil_Einne" title="User talk:Nil Einne">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Nil_Einne-20250225230200-Super_Goku_V-20250225054700" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:02, 25 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd> <dd>From a largely outsider perspective, while I can understand the frustrations of dealing with new editors blustering all over the place, I do think a greater level of patience will help a great deal. For example, in the closed RfC, Lincoln2020 was criticised for their I do not see an RfC comment. But reading it in context I'm fairly sure what they were saying is that they feel the RfC was improperly conducted because it was not listed in our RfC lists. I guess they checked <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Requests_for_comment/All" title="Wikipedia:Requests for comment/All">Wikipedia:Requests for comment/All</a> and <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Centralized_discussion/Archive" title="Wikipedia:Centralized discussion/Archive">Wikipedia:Centralized discussion/Archive</a> and didn't see it listed. Maybe they even checked the <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Requests_for_comment/All&action=history">edit history of the all page</a> or something else and found it wasn't there either. In this case a simple explanation could have been offered. Something like: it wasn't listed in the centralised discussion list because it wasn't important enough for there something which seems reasonable. It was in the history and geography <a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Requests_for_comment/History_and_geography&diff=prev&oldid=1270984401">[52]</a> <a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Requests_for_comment/History_and_geography&diff=prev&oldid=1275282840">[53]</a> and politics, government and law <a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Requests_for_comment/Politics,_government,_and_law&diff=prev&oldid=1270984405">[54]</a> <a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Requests_for_comment/Politics,_government,_and_law&diff=prev&oldid=1275282842">[55]</a> RfC lists until it expired which was a while after the initial closure which happened before the 30 day mark. This means it would have been in the all page but doesn't show up in the edit history as that page just shows stuff listed elsewhere. So it was properly listed as with all general RfCs. The level of attendance suggests it was very well known about in any case. <a href="/wiki/User:Nil_Einne" title="User:Nil Einne">Nil Einne</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Nil_Einne" title="User talk:Nil Einne">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Nil_Einne-20250224050500-Lincoln2020-20250223191200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">05:05, 24 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Just a note, I had the idea I might have said something somewhere about this, and have now confirmed I did ask a single clarifying comment in that RfC. I still consider myself largely uninvolved as I didn't express an opinion and my question could be interpreted benefit either "side" depending on the result which I had no idea what it would be. (I did express an opinion on the loosely related <a href="/wiki/Denali" title="Denali">Denali</a> RM. <a href="/wiki/User:Nil_Einne" title="User:Nil Einne">Nil Einne</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Nil_Einne" title="User talk:Nil Einne">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Nil_Einne-20250224084100-Nil_Einne-20250224050500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">08:41, 24 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Woke up to quite a few pings. Yes, since the arbcom election I have been very active at admin noticeboards. In part this is because the feedback I got there was somewhat encouraging that I might want to consider being an admin but that is something I don't know if I want. In the case of Soka School I honestly went into that conflict trying to tamp down an edit dispute that was out of hand. I was sadly unsuccessful but certainly was not trying to bully. As for Gulf of Mexico: I am simply very tired of the argument and would like to see a stable article. As far as I was concerned: there was an RfC and it had a clear outcome. That should have been the end of it. I was tagged into DRN. At the time I asked Lincoln2020 to close it as out of order. It was closed for them first and asked them to take the closer's recommendations onboard. This is not bullying. This is wanting the argument to stop. I would actually like to disengage from Lincoln2020 but they keep bringing this dispute, which I saw as settled, up in different venues. I'm not sure how I am at fault that another editor keeps trying to pull me back into this dispute. <a href="/wiki/User:Simonm223" title="User:Simonm223">Simonm223</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Simonm223" title="User talk:Simonm223">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Simonm223-20250224112100-Nil_Einne-20250224084100" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">11:21, 24 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd><a href="/wiki/User:Simonm223" title="User:Simonm223">Simonm223</a>, I agree with you that you're not bullying, and I believe you would make a fine admin. AFAIC, Chess is casting aspersions (such as <a href="/wiki/Special:Diff/1277336964" title="Special:Diff/1277336964">"you're using your understanding of our policies and guidelines to put yourself in a position of authority/power over editors who are unfamiliar with them, a role the community never granted you. Experienced editors that imply "I know how to work the system, so you'll do what I say" is what turns a lot of people off from this website."</a>) and complaining about very normal comments from you. I don't see a "harsh threatening tone", and you are perfectly well "empowered", as are all editors, to suggest editing restrictions. <a href="/wiki/User:Bishonen" title="User:Bishonen">Bishonen</a> | <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Bishonen" title="User talk:Bishonen">tålk</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Bishonen-20250224121700-Simonm223-20250224112100" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">12:17, 24 February 2025 (UTC)</a>.[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>I thank you for the words of support Bishonen.</dd> <dd>However, now that I am more fully awake I do want to revisit what happened at Soka School a bit and ask a few questions to the admins here regarding my own conduct. Because, in that case, I didn't come into that conflict with a strong opinion on content and was sincerely trying to be helpful.</dd> <dd>I'm not going to tag the other involved editors because this post isn't supposed to be relitigating their conduct but rather this is me asking for feedback on my own. I came to that situation seeing two editors involved in a conflict of a type I see often at admin noticeboards and, because it was a conflict on a minor subset of pages to do with Buddhism, I recognized it as the sort of thing that often gets lost in the noise of AN/I. However I know from my prior experience in the Falun Gong CTOP that, if I had called a member of that new religious movement a cultist, I would be quite rightly topic banned from editing FLG articles.</dd> <dd>East Asian new religious movements, particularly those that come from Buddhist or Taoist backgrounds, are something of a specialty of mine. I did a lot of sociological work on the subject when I was a student and have continued reading on the topic throughout my life since. As such, when I saw an editor being called a cultist in that context I felt it was somewhere where I could help and, I hoped at the time, avoid the need for admin intervention.</dd> <dd>What I found was a complicated situation involving two editors who did have very strong feelings about the topic. I tried to encourage both of them to article talk, as well as warning them about the likely consequences of continuing as they were, because I was trying to get them to talk to each other. And if you look at my comportment there most of my messages to them at article talk were asking them to cease edit warring, come to article talk and engage with each other.</dd> <dd>About all I managed to do was to get the one who had been previously accused of being a cultist to listen to me. The other editor pretty much just ignored my advise and carried on.</dd> <dd>At all steps I reported back to AN/I if something happened that might actually require an admin's intervention.</dd> <dd>What I was trying to do was handle an entrenched editor conflict while knowing I did not have admin tools. If I choose to become an admin I want to know that I have the skills to do that. I honestly was somewhat discouraged by the results. But I certainly never intended to bully either party. So my question to admins here is this:</dd> <dd>How should a person who is considering becoming an admin and wants to practice the skills admins require comport themselves in a similar situation? I had sincere, and helpful, motivations for my actions there and I'm actually somewhat aghast at myself that this isn't what was seen by others. I would like to do better at this. I don't personally consider my actions at Soka School to be successful. <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Incidents&diff=prev&oldid=1277239161">This edit</a> was effectively me admitting I had not been able to solve the problem there.</dd> <dd>I'm sincerely sorry if I over-reached in that case. What would be a more appropriate way to engage these skills in the future? <a href="/wiki/User:Simonm223" title="User:Simonm223">Simonm223</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Simonm223" title="User talk:Simonm223">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Simonm223-20250224124700-Bishonen-20250224121700" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">12:47, 24 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd> <dd>For clarity I meant in the closed DRN, sorry for any confusion. <a href="/wiki/User:Nil_Einne" title="User:Nil Einne">Nil Einne</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Nil_Einne" title="User talk:Nil Einne">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Nil_Einne-20250224151500-Nil_Einne-20250224050500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:15, 24 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd></dl> <ul><li>Comment - I see a metric ton of text about some bland "insults" that wouldn't get a grade schooler in trouble. There's barely any smoke, let alone fire. Is there anything if substance here in the piles of quoted mild rudeness? <a href="/wiki/User:EvergreenFir" title="User:EvergreenFir">EvergreenFir</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:EvergreenFir" title="User talk:EvergreenFir">(talk)</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-EvergreenFir-20250226005200-Lincoln2020-20250223191200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:52, 26 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <ul><li>No, <a href="/wiki/User:EvergreenFir" title="User:EvergreenFir">EvergreenFir</a>, but you get a cookie for reading through this entire complaint! Two cookies if you looked at all of the diffs, too. How about this discussion be closed with a reminder to all editors to remember to be civil even (or especially) with editors you disagree? <a href="/wiki/User:Liz" title="User:Liz">Liz</a> <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Liz" title="Special:Contributions/Liz">Read!</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Liz" title="User talk:Liz">Talk!</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Liz-20250226010200-EvergreenFir-20250226005200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:02, 26 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>I would also agree with that. <a href="/wiki/User:Chess" title="User:Chess">Chess</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Chess" title="User talk:Chess">talk</a>) (please <a href="/wiki/Help:Talk_pages#Notifications" title="Help:Talk pages">mention</a> me on reply) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Chess-20250226012700-Liz-20250226010200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:27, 26 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd> <dd>I concede my callout (16:36, Feb 12) was misplaced—new to WP:AE, I should’ve used admin boards sooner, although my central complaint here is that they abused the admin board to silence my attempt to find neutrality. Just like they promised to do - "aggressively clerking".</dd> <dd>Simonm223’s process misuse persists despite him being a veteran here: my DRN (faced a block threat), and my talk page got an aggressive threat. His 'if nobody can take away the US president's crayons we may have to suffer through four years of nonsense like this. Best to show early on that reality does not bend to the whims of a fool with an army.’, "absurdity of the request", (Jan 29, 01:33) and ‘aggressive clerking’ (Feb 11, 14:57) breach WP:CIVIL/WP:NPA/WP:NPOV and imply that he's willing to be an activist here to prevent future edits. This bias—e.g., ‘warm bodies’ on Trump’s GOP (Feb 25, 13:52)—risks WP:NPOV on Trump-related pages like Gulf, or Donald Trump, or the other vast number of ultra political articles he's participating on, meriting oversight beyond Gulf conduct. Not to mention the myriad of well researched and documented issues Chess brought up.</dd> <dd>His behavior very clearly warrants a 'moratorium for his nonsense'. And please - come at me for calling it nonsense, because he has a huge post on Gulf claiming anyone who disagrees with him and their views are nonsense. I'd welcome the double standard at this point. If you don't like that people are getting defensive and angry because someone is being a bully - handle the bully. And the irony is that he has a civility barnstar. Perhaps a week or two break from contentious articles would help him remember why he earned that in 2018. <a href="/wiki/User:Lincoln2020" title="User:Lincoln2020">Lincoln2020</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Lincoln2020" title="User talk:Lincoln2020">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Lincoln2020-20250226151700-Liz-20250226010200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:17, 26 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>I'm trying to stay quiet here and listen but I do want to provide a diff for my warm bodies comment <a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk%3ARepublican_Party_%28United_States%29&diff=1277577849&oldid=1277573758">[56]</a>. Apologies for the length. <a href="/wiki/User:Simonm223" title="User:Simonm223">Simonm223</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Simonm223" title="User talk:Simonm223">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Simonm223-20250226154100-Lincoln2020-20250226151700" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:41, 26 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd></dl></li></ul> <dl><dd>Also ... grade schoolers don't have to abide by WP:CIVIL, WP:NPA, WP:NPOV. While your point holds that these things would be mild in most contexts, it's the fact that it's a pattern of intimidation tactics and bias bleeding into web pages with millions of viewers, with nothing less than the credibility of Wikipedia on the line. We should hold ourselves to higher standards than grade schoolers, should we not? <a href="/wiki/User:Lincoln2020" title="User:Lincoln2020">Lincoln2020</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Lincoln2020" title="User talk:Lincoln2020">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Lincoln2020-20250226152200-EvergreenFir-20250226005200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:22, 26 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></li></ul> <div style="padding-left: 1.6em; font-style: italic; border-top: 1px solid #a2a9b1; margin: 0.5em 0; padding-top: 0.5em">The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.</div> </div><div style="clear:both;" class=""></div> Noting that the original complaint has now been refiled at ANI: <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Incidents#Intimidation_tactics,_suppression_and_other_violations_from_Simonm223" title="Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents">Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard/Incidents#Intimidation_tactics,_suppression_and_other_violations_from_Simonm223</a> signed, <a href="/wiki/User:Rosguill" title="User:Rosguill">Rosguill</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Rosguill" title="User talk:Rosguill">talk</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Rosguill-20250227160600-Threats_and_ad-hominems_being_used_to_bully_editor" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:06, 27 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Arbitration_enforcement_action_appeal_by_Toa_Nidhiki05" data-mw-thread-id="h-Arbitration_enforcement_action_appeal_by_Toa_Nidhiki05-20250223235200">Arbitration enforcement action appeal by Toa Nidhiki05</h2>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard&action=edit&section=24" title="Edit section: Arbitration enforcement action appeal by Toa Nidhiki05">edit</a>]<div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> Procedural notes: Per the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Contentious_topics#Changing_or_revoking_a_contentious_topic_restriction" title="Wikipedia:Contentious topics">rules governing arbitration enforcement appeals</a>, "a clear consensus of uninvolved editors at AN"... should revoke or modify a contentious topic restriction on appeal if: <ol><li>the action was inconsistent with the contentious topics procedure or applicable policy (i.e. the action was out of process),</li> <li>the action was not reasonably necessary to prevent damage or disruption when first imposed, or</li> <li>the action is no longer reasonably necessary to prevent damage or disruption.</li></ol> To help determine any such consensus, involved editors may make brief statements in separate sections. Other editors may comment below. Editors are normally considered involved if they are in a current dispute with the sanctioning or sanctioned editor, or have taken part in disputes (if any) related to the contested enforcement action. Administrators having taken administrative actions are not normally considered involved for this reason alone (see WP:UNINVOLVED). <dl><dt>Appealing user</dt> <dd><a href="/wiki/User:Toa_Nidhiki05" title="User:Toa Nidhiki05">User:Toa Nidhiki05</a></dd></dl> <dl><dt>Sanction being appealed</dt> <dd><a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?diff=1276376055#Toa_Nidhiki05">Indefinite topic ban from AP/2</a></dd></dl> <dl><dt>Administrator imposing the sanction</dt> <dd><a href="/wiki/User:Rosguill" title="User:Rosguill">User:Rosguill</a></dd></dl> <dl><dt>Notification of that administrator</dt> <dd><a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk%3ARosguill&diff=1277320508&oldid=1277290995">[57]</a></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading3"><h3 id="Statement_by_Toa_Nidhiki05" data-mw-thread-id="h-Statement_by_Toa_Nidhiki05-Arbitration_enforcement_action_appeal_by_Toa_Nidhiki05-20250223235200">Statement by Toa Nidhiki05</h3>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard&action=edit&section=25" title="Edit section: Statement by Toa Nidhiki05">edit</a>]</div> I had debated making an immediate appeal, as I felt the decision was not in line with the facts of the case. The recent closure of the <a href="/wiki/Talk:Republican_Party_(United_States)#Discussion_RfC_Should_"Far-right"_be_used_in_the_infobox" title="Talk:Republican Party (United States)">relevant RfC</a>, where my arguments were <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Chetsford#Republican_Party_RfC_closure" title="User talk:Chetsford">directly cited by the closing admin</a>, have given me reason to appeal. The essential gist behind this topic ban, as I understand it, is that I refused to engage with sources and was pushing a point of view in a <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Request_for_comment" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:Request for comment">request for comment</a> at <a href="/wiki/Talk:Republican_Party_(United_States)#Discussion_RfC_Should_"Far-right"_be_used_in_the_infobox" title="Talk:Republican Party (United States)">Talk:Republican_Party_(United_States)</a>. I argued that previous discussions on the page resulted in a <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:LOCALCON" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:LOCALCON">local consensus</a> for what the infobox should say about political positions, and that there is no academic consensus on whether the Republican Party is far-right, or at least enough to include it as a faction in the infobox. Like a dozen other editors, I opposed including it; the closing admin found no consensus for or against conclusion, and has cited my arguments in the closure. I did not edit war in regards to this subject, and there was no disruptive editing to the page in question; only discussion on the talk page. As the closing admin for the RfC <a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#RfC_closure_review_request_at_Talk:Republican_Party_(United_States)#Discussion_RfC_Should_"Far-right"_be_used_in_the_infobox">repeatedly has noted in the closure review for the RfC</a>, I <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard&diff=prev&oldid=1276884393">did use and engage with sources</a>. Moreover, the biggest example used by administrators to justify the topic ban - a refusal to engage with sources provided by <a href="/wiki/User:Simonm223" title="User:Simonm223">Simonm223</a> - is not accurate. You can see the context in <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk%3ARepublican_Party_%28United_States%29&diff=1270657782&oldid=1270657113">this diff</a> and <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk%3ARepublican_Party_%28United_States%29&diff=1270890190&oldid=1270881624h">this diff</a>; in neither one am I even near the conversation, and yet Simonmn223 somehow holds me responsible for not responding. Simonm never linked me to where sources were provided; when they gave sources to me in a <a href="/wiki/Talk:Republican_Party_(United_States)#Let's_find_better_sources_for_the_"shift_to_right-wing_populism"" title="Talk:Republican Party (United States)">separate discussion</a>, not only did I like the sources, I suggested they be used in the article. Essentially: I do not think it is fair to hold me responsible for not responding to a single editor's sources, in an RfC involving over two dozen editors - especially when said editor never presented the sources to me at any point, nor did they tag me in them, or even direct me to their location. In the original AN/I thread, numerous uninvolved editors felt that my conduct on the page <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Incidents&diff=prev&oldid=1270660676">contained "no wrongdoing"</a> or <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Incidents&diff=prev&oldid=1270921617">expressed outright confusion over what the behavior issue supposedly was</a>. Other editors identified it as a <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Incidents&diff=prev&oldid=1270657665">content dispute</a>. Even some of the administrators who ultimately supported a topic ban felt my behavior was "an opinion on a content dispute, not on editor behavior" or that they "[didn't] see much separating Toa's behavior from the crowd". I contend that I didn't engage in wrongdoing here, and certainly not worthy of a topic ban. I was topic banned from AP/2 years ago; I fully take responsibility for my behavior then. However, I cannot take responsibility for things I have not done, and if my arguments at the RfC were compelling enough to be cited by the RfC closer, I don't think they can be called plainly disruptive. <a href="/wiki/User:Toa_Nidhiki05" title="User:Toa Nidhiki05">Toa</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Toa_Nidhiki05" title="User talk:Toa Nidhiki05">Nidhiki05</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Toa_Nidhiki05-20250223235200-Statement_by_Toa_Nidhiki05" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:52, 23 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>I don't want to bludgeon, but I want to ask a question, <a href="/wiki/User:Barkeep49" title="User:Barkeep49">Barkeep49</a>. Can you please point to an actual example of me, on the page, being presented with academic sources, and immediately switching gears? In the AE thread, you based your comment on this about Simonmn's claim about presenting me sources. But, they never actually did this, as I showed above - they posted a handful of sources in a 25-person RfC in response to other people, and never pinged me, never tagged me, and never directed me to said sources.</dd> <dd>I went back and looked at all my comments actively on the page - I looked at the RfC, and I can't find an example of me actively denying a source when presented it. My general point was I didn't think the academic consensus backed the claim, not that no sources existed - I think? Can you please show diffs of this happening? This would provide some clarity to me. <a href="/wiki/User:Toa_Nidhiki05" title="User:Toa Nidhiki05">Toa</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Toa_Nidhiki05" title="User talk:Toa Nidhiki05">Nidhiki05</a> <dl><dd><s>I might be blind but, I've scanned this multiple times and at least at the point in the thread you linked to, I don't see any sources provided by Simonm, let alone to me? At least at where you linked to (I'm assuming the discussion below, which is about the Tea Party), I don't see any sources presented by Simonmn. There are a few by Theofunny, about the Tea Party, but I'm hardly the only person to not respond in that specific comment chain - frankly, nothing said contradicted what I said (a chunk of the Tea Party became Trumpist).</s></dd> <dd>I'm not demanding diffs for any malicious reason, and you're clearly not persuadable, so I'm not going to try to. I just don't believe that's an accurate reflection of what happened. I'm not going to acknowledge something I don't believe happened, let alone apologize for it, if that makes sense. Again, I don't want to bludgeon, and you probably think this is some sort of civil attempt at something malicious, so this is the last I'll talk about it, but it's genuinely frustrating. <a href="/wiki/User:Toa_Nidhiki05" title="User:Toa Nidhiki05">Toa</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Toa_Nidhiki05" title="User talk:Toa Nidhiki05">Nidhiki05</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Toa_Nidhiki05-20250224035800-Toa_Nidhiki05-20250223235200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">03:58, 24 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Ah, I think I see what the context is. I did respond in an area, close to sources Simonmn provided. Except, it's not in that discussion - it's in a separate comment chain, nearly a day after, on an entirely unrelated subject. This was also the first time I commented in that thread since January 13 (eight days prior). So no, I wasn't actively involved in Simonm's discussion beforehand, so I'm not sure why a direct rebuttal of sources given to someone else would be expected?</dd> <dd>Anyway, that's the last I'll say there. It's clear that there won't be any budging from either of us on this. But I felt I needed to make this clarification so you knew I had actually seen it eventually. <a href="/wiki/User:Toa_Nidhiki05" title="User:Toa Nidhiki05">Toa</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Toa_Nidhiki05" title="User talk:Toa Nidhiki05">Nidhiki05</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Toa_Nidhiki05-20250224043100-Toa_Nidhiki05-20250224035800" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">04:31, 24 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <dl><dd><a href="/wiki/User:Chess" title="User:Chess">Chess</a>, I don't think you are accurately describing the situation. <ul><li>My <a href="/wiki/Talk:Republican_Party_(United_States)/Archive_35" title="Talk:Republican Party (United States)/Archive 35">argument</a> was that previous discussions (<a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Republican_Party_(United_States)/Archive_34">[58]</a> <a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Republican_Party_(United_States)/Archive_33">[59]</a> <a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Republican_Party_(United_States)/Archive_35#%22Center-right%22,_Center-right_to_right-wing%22,_or_%22center-right_to_far-right%22">[60]</a>) yielded a local consensus for center-right to right-wing, backed by reliable sources, and that Warrenmck's proposal (adding "far-right" and "anti-intellectualism" to the infobox) and sources weren't convincing, especially when said changes had been rejected in numerous other discussions. Moreover, I <a href="/wiki/Talk:Republican_Party_(United_States)#RfC_on_inclusion_of_"Far-right"_as_faction_ideology_in_sidebar" title="Talk:Republican Party (United States)">agreed with suggestions for a moratorium on changes</a>, as the topic of changing the political position comes up almost daily on the talk page (I also supported instituting a <a href="/wiki/Talk:Republican_Party_(United_States)#Moratorium" title="Talk:Republican Party (United States)">moratorium on changes</a> following the closure of the RfCs in question, regardless of the outcome).</li> <li>I reject Rosguill's claims that I misled. In fact, Rosguill's analysis is lacking, or in some cases, in error; for example, they claimed that I gave a diff as evidence of Warrenmck doing something, but the diff was not of Warrenmck. However, the diff in question wasn't of Warrenmck doing anything - if was of another user <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Incidents&diff=prev&oldid=1271843805">acknowledging a local consensus existed</a>, something Warrenmck denied. Essentially: Rosguill misread what I said, and when I <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Rosguill#Just_a_note" title="User talk:Rosguill">pointed this out</a>, they essentially shrugged it off as the "vague recollection of the prior discussion" without acknowledging they misread to begin with.</li> <li>Much of the rest of Rosguill's case is arguing previous discussions didn't show a local consensus - but this is their opinion, and other editors (like BootsED) have disagreed on the matter. Regardless, it had been established on the article for over half a year, meaning it pretty unquestionably was a status quo. Rosguill also argued I didn't provide sources, when I did, from the previous discussions; Chetsford actually cited this in their closure (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#RfC_closure_review_request_at_Talk:Republican_Party_(United_States)#Discussion_RfC_Should_"Far-right"_be_used_in_the_infobox">"For my edification for the future, can you describe why the three threads from 2024 that Toa Nidhiki05 incorporated by reference into the discussion with counter-sources and his argument as to the sufficiency of the sources provided, don't constitute a rebuttal?"</a>).</li> <li>When Simonm223 added their sources, it was to their initial vote on January 20; I had not participated in the discussion since January 13, and did not comment again until the 22nd. Simonmn223 did not give their sources in response to me, they never responded to any of my comments with them, and they never linked me to them or tagged me to them. It should not be a surprise, then that I didn't respond to them. Compare this to a separate discussion on a separate topic where they did do those things, I <a href="/wiki/Talk:Republican_Party_(United_States)#Let's_find_better_sources_for_the_"shift_to_right-wing_populism"" title="Talk:Republican Party (United States)">liked their sources and suggested adding them to the article</a>. In fact, you can find numerous other discussions where I actively worked with and collaborated over sourcing - both during the run of the RfC, and in the prior discussions, where I was actively involved in finding the best sources. If I was refusing to engage with sources, why did I not only engage with sources from editors I was in conflict with, but approve of them?</li> <li>Essentially: I don't think Rosguill's case established I lied. I also don't think Rosguill claimed that, either - they claimed I misled. But I don't think I did that, either, and I don't think the evidence backs it up. <a href="/wiki/User:Toa_Nidhiki05" title="User:Toa Nidhiki05">Toa</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Toa_Nidhiki05" title="User talk:Toa Nidhiki05">Nidhiki05</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Toa_Nidhiki05-20250224141400-Toa_Nidhiki05-20250223235200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">14:14, 24 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li></ul></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd><a href="/wiki/User:Chess" title="User:Chess">Chess</a>: <ul><li>To your first point: Rosguill misread what I said, or the situation. Here's the link to the <a href="/wiki/Talk:Republican_Party_(United_States)/Archive_31#Poll:_Should_the_article_include_a_political_position_for_the_Republican_Party_in_the_infobox?" title="Talk:Republican Party (United States)/Archive 31">relevant RfC</a> that gave an initial consensus for right-wing. The closer's wording was very specific: there was a consensus to include a political position, and to include right-wing, provided reliable sources were given. Take a look at the RfC and you'll see the issue. By my count, only one user - <a href="/wiki/User:Springee" title="User:Springee">Springee</a> - gave a source in the entire discussion. This is the opposite of how things are supposed to work. You don't don't decide what to write first and then find sources - you look up sources first, and write based on what they say. So, an immediate discussion after this (<a href="/wiki/Talk:Republican_Party_(United_States)/Archive_32#Souces_for_"right-wing"" title="Talk:Republican Party (United States)/Archive 32">this one</a>) was about what sources to use. We ultimately found a lot of sources to back up the claim - but we also found a lot of sources for center-right. In <a href="/wiki/Talk:Republican_Party_(United_States)/Archive_33#Political_positions_being_reinstated_once_again" title="Talk:Republican Party (United States)/Archive 33">this very large thread</a>, editors ultimately worked together to find sources for both, and this stuck for about six months as a <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:LOCALCON" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:LOCALCON">local conensus</a>. Those are the three discussions I've used when referring to what editors ultimately agreed to, although they aren't the only discussions on the matter.</li> <li>To your second: I'm referring to the local consensus that was created. To be clear, I was not saying there was an RfC, nor was I saying there was unanimous agreement. But there ultimately was a wording that was agreed upon by enough editors to stick for six months on a very contentious topic. That's the consensus I'm referring to. This doesn't preclude discussions or additional findings - this is just what me, and a bunch of editors, found while working on the page. A similar process happened at <a href="/wiki/Democratic_Party_(United_States)" title="Democratic Party (United States)">Democratic Party (United States)</a>, where the broad agreement was that <a href="/wiki/Center-left_politics" class="mw-redirect" title="Center-left politics">center-left</a> on its own was the appropriate descriptor. The last year saw, after two decades of not having a position listed, rough agreements on what the political positions should be - as well as over factions. I participated in both, and I'm reasonably proud of how editors came together on both pages.</li> <li>For the third: What I was referring to was a frequent claim <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Warrenmck&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Warrenmck (page does not exist)">Warrenmck</a> (the editor who brought the AE complaint) made - that there was no consensus at all. They referred to it as a "mythical previous consensus" in their <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?diff=1276376055#Toa_Nidhiki05">opening statement</a>. My <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Incidents&diff=prev&oldid=1271843805">presented diff</a> was, essentially, entirely misunderstood by Rosguill. I used it to debunk Warrenmck by pointing out another editor involved in the discussion corroborated what I was saying (that there were multiple discussions that resulted in a consensus). In contrast, Rosguill looked at the diff, saw Warrenmck wasn't involved at all, and said "The diff... does not demonstrate evidence of Warrenmck doing anything in particular" - and even after I explained it to Rosguill, they didn't seem to understand. Rosguill used this as a key argument to prove I was misleading people - but what actually happened is Rosguill just misunderstood what I said.</li> <li>Hopefully this was helpful, <a href="/wiki/User:Chess" title="User:Chess">Chess</a>. <a href="/wiki/User:Toa_Nidhiki05" title="User:Toa Nidhiki05">Toa</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Toa_Nidhiki05" title="User talk:Toa Nidhiki05">Nidhiki05</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Toa_Nidhiki05-20250224223500-Toa_Nidhiki05-20250224141400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:35, 24 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li></ul> <dl><dd><ul><li><a href="/wiki/User:Chess" title="User:Chess">Chess</a>:</li> <li>The closer of the RfC, <a href="/wiki/User:Mdann52" title="User:Mdann52">Mdann52</a>, explicitly confirmed what I am saying in <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Mdann52&diff=prev&oldid=1228338460">this diff where they elaborated on the close</a> ("I don't recall any mention of sources in that discussion, so I haven't considered them, and hence that caveat. If there had been discussion of sourcing, I would have worded it more like "as backed up by the sources cited below" or similar, but there was no discussion of sources so I deemed that appropriate for another discussion"). I would personally consider this sufficient, but I think, broadly, the (at minimum) two additional discussions on sourcing also drive forward this point. Among the thread, myself and users <a href="/wiki/User:Moxy" title="User:Moxy">Moxy</a> ("Yes need academic sources that go into detail and explain things... and not connected to the United States directly"), <a href="/wiki/User:DMacks" title="User:DMacks">DMacks</a> ("As several have mentioned (and the closer has confirmed[1]), the consensus you keep pointing to does not rule that that these refs support the text") and <a href="/wiki/User:Carlp941" title="User:Carlp941">Carlp941</a> ("I agree that the initial sourcing was thin. I have added better sources, quoted and bolded the relevant texts that I believe call the Republican Party right wing in some form") felt a look or addition of sources was needed; only one user, <a href="/wiki/User:Cortador" title="User:Cortador">Cortador</a>, disagreed and said that "If you believe that sourcing wasn't strong enough, the time to bring that up as the now-closed discussion above".</li> <li>For the second discussion - I think it's fair to question whether the thread resulted in a consensus on the matter, in hindsight. There wasn't a formatted RfC, and many users only commented once. I'll note that of those who participated more than once, three (myself, <a href="/wiki/User:BootsED" title="User:BootsED">BootsED</a>, and <a href="/wiki/User:Carlp941" title="User:Carlp941">Carlp941</a>) felt there were sources for both, while <a href="/wiki/User:JohnAdams1800" title="User:JohnAdams1800">JohnAdams1800</a> supported having right-wing, with a note saying there are center-right and far-right factions. <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Mhoat&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Mhoat (page does not exist)">Mhoat</a> and <a href="/wiki/User:Viriditas" title="User:Viriditas">Viriditas</a> did engage generally in opposition, but I don't think either really gave a vote; <a href="/wiki/User:The_Four_Deuces" title="User:The Four Deuces">The Four Deuces</a> has always opposed having a position listed at all. Ultimately, the discussion did result in center-right to right-wing sticking on the page for six months - I don't think there's any real debate on that front. I consider that a fairly stable local consensus, which is what I'm referring to - especially given how contentious the page is. But if you're looking for the discussion to firmly end in a decision... yeah, it's fair to say it kind of trailed off, without closure.</li> <li>I'd be happy to elaborate further if needed. <a href="/wiki/User:Toa_Nidhiki05" title="User:Toa Nidhiki05">Toa</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Toa_Nidhiki05" title="User talk:Toa Nidhiki05">Nidhiki05</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Toa_Nidhiki05-20250301033200-Toa_Nidhiki05-20250224223500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">03:32, 1 March 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li></ul></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading3"><h3 id="Statement_by_Rosguill" data-mw-thread-id="h-Statement_by_Rosguill-Arbitration_enforcement_action_appeal_by_Toa_Nidhiki05-20250224013300">Statement by Rosguill</h3>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard&action=edit&section=26" title="Edit section: Statement by Rosguill">edit</a>]</div> I don't think this appeal addresses the bulk of the evidence and discussion at <a href="/wiki/Special:Diff/1276375953#Result_concerning_Toa_Nidhiki05" title="Special:Diff/1276375953">Special:Diff/1276375953#Result_concerning_Toa_Nidhiki05</a>. To that end, it's worth noting that despite the layout of this appeal, the decision to impose a tban was made by a consensus of 5 admins in discussion, with <a href="/wiki/User:Vanamonde93" title="User:Vanamonde93">Vanamonde93</a>, the sole dissent, stating <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1248585704" /><q class="inline-quote-talk">We should close with a TBAN. I don't feel the conduct rises to the level of a TBAN but I do feel there has been misconduct, and as such this isn't a hill I will die on.</q> Ironically, one of the issues from that AE that I personally found most concerning and necessitating sanctions was Toa's tendency to misrepresent past discussions. signed, <a href="/wiki/User:Rosguill" title="User:Rosguill">Rosguill</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Rosguill" title="User talk:Rosguill">talk</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Rosguill-20250224013300-Statement_by_Rosguill" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:33, 24 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Pinging the remaining admins that participated in that decision, <a href="/wiki/User:Seraphimblade" title="User:Seraphimblade">Seraphimblade</a>, <a href="/wiki/User:Barkeep49" title="User:Barkeep49">Barkeep49</a>, <a href="/wiki/User:Guerillero" title="User:Guerillero">Guerillero</a>. as well as <a href="/wiki/User:Liz" title="User:Liz">Liz</a> who chimed in but deliberately avoided asserting opinions. signed, <a href="/wiki/User:Rosguill" title="User:Rosguill">Rosguill</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Rosguill" title="User talk:Rosguill">talk</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Rosguill-20250224013600-Rosguill-20250224013300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:36, 24 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd><a href="/wiki/User:Chess" title="User:Chess">Chess</a> regarding the last bullet point about accusing Warrenmck of denying past discussion without evidence, my concern was that the diff attached to the claim did not provide evidence concerning Warrenmck's behavior, and as such the accusation was essentially an unsupported allegation. Toa removed the claim while rewording responses, so I would consider that issue retracted and settled. signed, <a href="/wiki/User:Rosguill" title="User:Rosguill">Rosguill</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Rosguill" title="User talk:Rosguill">talk</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Rosguill-20250224213500-Rosguill-20250224013600" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:35, 24 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading3"><h3 id="Statement_by_Barkeep49" data-mw-thread-id="h-Statement_by_Barkeep49-Arbitration_enforcement_action_appeal_by_Toa_Nidhiki05-20250224015900">Statement by Barkeep49</h3>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard&action=edit&section=27" title="Edit section: Statement by Barkeep49">edit</a>]</div> I am not surprised Toa's comments were cited by the closer. Many of them were good and an RfC closer shouldn't really be reading with behavioral conduct in mind. In the same way AE admins shouldn't be engaging with content. But, as I noted at <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement#c-Barkeep49-20250205195200-Barkeep49-20250205164200" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement">AE</a> he also engaged in what I believe was <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:CPUSH" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:CPUSH">Civil POV pushing</a> at the RFC with the clearest example being around the moving of goalposts when it came to academic sources - first claiming that they needed to be produced and then changing gears when they were. Examining his behavior in a vaccuum I'd have supported a logged warning. However, we're less than 6 months removed from a topic ban being loosened. That is what separated Toa's conduct from "the crowd" in my mind. I look forward to reading what other editors think, but will repeat a point Rosguill made above: this was endorsed by 4 admins with a 5th finding misconduct but supporting a lesser sanction and a 6th offering a general assessment. This stands in contrast to many AE threads which end up with ~3 admins deciding the case. <a href="/wiki/User:Barkeep49" title="User:Barkeep49">Barkeep49</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Barkeep49" title="User talk:Barkeep49">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Barkeep49-20250224015900-Statement_by_Barkeep49" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:59, 24 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Toa: I formed my belief of your civil POV pushing after reading the entire discussion (and parts of the prediscussion). And by providing single diffs it could inaccurately suggest that whatever limited diffs I present are the only reason why I came to the conclusion I did rather than in the context of a much longer discsussion. But since you have started this by saying you're not interested in bludgeoning and thus are, I would presume, unlikely to try and play that game, I will gladly present you a diffs in answer to your request. <a href="/wiki/Talk:Republican_Party_(United_States)#c-Toa_Nidhiki05-20250122181200-Theofunny-20250122174700" title="Talk:Republican Party (United States)">Here you are</a> replying in discussion of evidence Simon presented around discussion of academic, making no effort to acknowledge what has been presented. <a href="/wiki/User:Barkeep49" title="User:Barkeep49">Barkeep49</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Barkeep49" title="User talk:Barkeep49">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Barkeep49-20250224033300-Barkeep49-20250224015900" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">03:33, 24 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading3"><h3 id="Statement_by_Vanamonde" data-mw-thread-id="h-Statement_by_Vanamonde-Arbitration_enforcement_action_appeal_by_Toa_Nidhiki05-20250224021700">Statement by Vanamonde</h3>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard&action=edit&section=28" title="Edit section: Statement by Vanamonde">edit</a>]</div> I weakly opposed a TBAN at AE not because Toa's conduct was acceptable but because there was considerable misconduct of the same sort in the discussions we were examining. Having re-read the RfC referred to above in the context of the close review referred to above (where, for the record, I endorsed the closure) I am not willing to grant an appeal on the basis of the sanction being wrong; Toa was unquestionably engaged in civil pov-pushing and gatekeeping, and a failure to recognize any misconduct is an indication to me that the TBAN was the appropriate outcome at AE. I also second BK49's statement that an RfC closure should not be engaging with behavioral issues when assessing consensus, and as such the persuasiveness of Toa's arguments in that RfC are a non sequitur. <a href="/wiki/User:Vanamonde93" title="User:Vanamonde93">Vanamonde93</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Vanamonde93" title="User talk:Vanamonde93">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Vanamonde93-20250224021700-Statement_by_Vanamonde" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:17, 24 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <div class="mw-heading mw-heading3"><h3 id="Statement_by_Guerillero" data-mw-thread-id="h-Statement_by_Guerillero-Arbitration_enforcement_action_appeal_by_Toa_Nidhiki05-20250224105400">Statement by Guerillero</h3>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard&action=edit&section=29" title="Edit section: Statement by Guerillero">edit</a>]</div> Nothing about this appeal has changed my mind that reinstating the topic ban from American politics that was loosened less than a year ago was a reasonable action by myself and the other AE admins to limit disruption in a contentious area of the project. --<a href="/wiki/User:Guerillero" title="User:Guerillero">Guerillero</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Guerillero" title="User talk:Guerillero">Parlez Moi</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Guerillero-20250224105400-Statement_by_Guerillero" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">10:54, 24 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <div class="mw-heading mw-heading3"><h3 id="Statement_by_Seraphimblade" data-mw-thread-id="h-Statement_by_Seraphimblade-Arbitration_enforcement_action_appeal_by_Toa_Nidhiki05-20250224185800">Statement by Seraphimblade</h3>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard&action=edit&section=30" title="Edit section: Statement by Seraphimblade">edit</a>]</div> I don't think I've got much to add that has not been said. My primary concern was not that Toa Nidhiki05 was engaged in conduct particularly more egregious than anyone else warned here, but rather that he had already been recently banned from the topic area, and had the ban lifted recently. I think having been already sanctioned is more than warning enough, and I cannot imagine additional warnings being effective in such a scenario, so the only real options were to either do nothing or reinstate the sanction. <a href="/wiki/User:Seraphimblade" title="User:Seraphimblade">Seraphimblade</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Seraphimblade" title="User talk:Seraphimblade">Talk to me</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Seraphimblade-20250224185800-Statement_by_Seraphimblade" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:58, 24 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <div class="mw-heading mw-heading3"><h3 id="Statement_by_Cortador" data-mw-thread-id="h-Statement_by_Cortador-Arbitration_enforcement_action_appeal_by_Toa_Nidhiki05-20250225132300">Statement by Cortador</h3>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard&action=edit&section=31" title="Edit section: Statement by Cortador">edit</a>]</div> I'll post this here (as opposed to the uninvolved section below) since I was part of the discussion that led to the ANI discussion (though not the ANi discussion itself). TN has not address the primary reason for the ban with this appeal, and due to the previous ban, this ban does not stand in isolation. The reason brought up below to lift or shorten the ban are insufficient. "Other editors are problematic too" is an argument to sanction other editors, not to not sanction TN. Shortening the ban needs a reason, and none was given. Lastly, TN did not engage with the sources provided in that discussion, and merely claimed that there was already consensus in archived threads they linked to. The links did not contain sources supporting his arguments. <a href="/wiki/User:Cortador" title="User:Cortador">Cortador</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Cortador" title="User talk:Cortador">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Cortador-20250225132300-Statement_by_Cortador" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">13:23, 25 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <div class="mw-heading mw-heading3"><h3 id="Statement_by_Jessintime" data-mw-thread-id="h-Statement_by_Jessintime-Arbitration_enforcement_action_appeal_by_Toa_Nidhiki05-20250225165000">Statement by Jessintime</h3>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard&action=edit&section=32" title="Edit section: Statement by Jessintime">edit</a>]</div> Has the definition of uninvolved changed? Several of those commenting below took part in either the AE thread in question, at various American politics-related pages, or both. ~~ <a href="/wiki/User:Jessintime" title="User:Jessintime">Jessintime</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Jessintime" title="User talk:Jessintime">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Jessintime-20250225165000-Statement_by_Jessintime" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:50, 25 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] I'd like to add that my first interaction with Tao was at <a href="/wiki/Talk:National_Football_League#Change_the_term_club_back_to_team" title="Talk:National Football League">Talk:National_Football_League#Change_the_term_club_back_to_team</a>. While it's obviously not a contentious topic area, his behavior in that thread was far from ideal. ~~ <a href="/wiki/User:Jessintime" title="User:Jessintime">Jessintime</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Jessintime" title="User talk:Jessintime">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Jessintime-20250301143200-Statement_by_Jessintime" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">14:32, 1 March 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <div class="mw-heading mw-heading3"><h3 id="Statement_by_BootsED" data-mw-thread-id="h-Statement_by_BootsED-Arbitration_enforcement_action_appeal_by_Toa_Nidhiki05-20250301034900">Statement by BootsED</h3>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard&action=edit&section=33" title="Edit section: Statement by BootsED">edit</a>]</div> I'm not sure if I qualify as an involved editor or not, but I have been heavily engaged in several discussions with Toa on the pages for the Republican and the Democratic Party pages and in a prior noticeboard about him. I want to speak to Toa's character. I found Toa to be very civil and insightful in conversations I had with him. While I did not always agree with him, I found he based his reasons in policy and did not engage in emotional, personal attacks. I can see why some would see his behavior as civil POV pushing, but I would disagree that there was any ill intent and that such actions were misinterpreted. Talk pages on politics can get very heated, and at times individuals push blatantly wrong or loaded assertions and misinterpretations of policy. I noticed that Toa always tried to stay civil and calm. A lot of the conversations and allegations of misinterpreting past discussions, I believe, are not due to ill intent, but the simple fact that such discussions happened over so many months over so many talk sections that they tended to all blur together. I can also easily see how Toa did not intend to misinterpret any prior discussions, but sincerely believed that he was correct in his recollection of prior conversations. Several prior discussions regarding whether to call the Republican Party "center-right" and disagreements over consensus had me confused, as I also had a similar understanding to Toa that such prior consensus had been reached. I don't believe that Toa should be topic banned, as he did some very good work on other political pages, such as helping solve the long-standing debate over whether to call the Democratic Party "center-left" and assisting myself in grading the sources I had found on this topic. If a ban is necessary, I would propose a temporary topic ban, not a permanent one. We need more good editors on Wikipedia. <a href="/wiki/User:BootsED" title="User:BootsED">BootsED</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:BootsED" title="User talk:BootsED">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-BootsED-20250301034900-Statement_by_BootsED" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">03:49, 1 March 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <div class="mw-heading mw-heading3"><h3 id="Statement_by_the_Four_Deuces" data-mw-thread-id="h-Statement_by_the_Four_Deuces-Arbitration_enforcement_action_appeal_by_Toa_Nidhiki05-20250301192400">Statement by the Four Deuces</h3>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard&action=edit&section=34" title="Edit section: Statement by the Four Deuces">edit</a>]</div> I looked through the last 15 years to see what the info-box said for political position and put my findings below. They include today's version and the one's for the end of each quarter. I apologize if any errors were made. The position in the political spectrum field was blank for over a decade before editors decided to re-add it last year. During that time, adding specific descriptions were discussed and rejected and sometimes edit-warring occured. Anyone who has followed the page during that time, including Toa would be correct in determining that there was consensus against each and every one of the possible descriptions. That's why the field was left blank. It would be onerous on them to go through 36 pages of talk page discussions and thousands of article edits and pinpoint where exactly each consensus was formed. In any case, anyone who disagreed on content can always say that consensus can change. It does not stop them from arguing for change to the article. While the outcome of an RfC was to re-add the field, there was no consensus for what it should say. I was in opposition in that RfC because the terms can denote different things, depending on context. Right-wing and far right usually mean more right-wing than the speaker considers acceptable, while center-right, centrist, center-left and left-wing usually mean within the acceptable range of political views. In any case, the finding of fact in the RfC on how to describe the position of the Republican Party on the political spectrum proves that TN was correct in their assessment. This is a content dispute and should be treated as such. <a href="/wiki/User:The_Four_Deuces" title="User:The Four Deuces">TFD</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:The_Four_Deuces" title="User talk:The Four Deuces">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-The_Four_Deuces-20250301192400-Statement_by_the_Four_Deuces" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:24, 1 March 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <ul><li>"Right-wing" [15:44, 1 March 2025]<a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Republican_Party_(United_States)&oldid=1278287859">[61]</a></li> <li>"Center-right to right-wing" [31 December 2024]<a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Republican_Party_(United_States)&oldid=1266320830">[62]</a></li> <li>"Center-right to right-wing" [30 September 2024]<a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Republican_Party_(United_States)&oldid=1248688878">[63]</a></li> <li>"Center-right to right-wing" [30 June 2024]<a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Republican_Party_(United_States)&oldid=1231707310">[64]</a></li> <li>(Field blank) [31 March 2024]<a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Republican_Party_(United_States)&oldid=1216559258">[65]</a></li> <li>(Field blank) [31 December 2023)<a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Republican_Party_(United_States)&oldid=1192843939">[66]</a></li> <li>(Field blank) [30 September 2023)<a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Republican_Party_(United_States)&oldid=1177882930">[67]</a></li> <li>(Field blank) [30 June 2023)<a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Republican_Party_(United_States)&oldid=1162740130">[68]</a></li> <li>(Field blank) [31 March 2023]<a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Republican_Party_(United_States)&oldid=1147445263">[69]</a></li> <li>(Field blank) [27 December 2022]<a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Republican_Party_(United_States)&oldid=1129881208">[70]</a></li> <li>(Field blank) [28 September 2022]<a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Republican_Party_(United_States)&oldid=1112926570">[71]</a></li> <li>(Field blank) [30 June 2022]<a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Republican_Party_(United_States)&oldid=1095850593">[72]</a></li> <li>(Field blank) [28 March 2022]<a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Republican_Party_(United_States)&oldid=1079693634">[73]</a></li> <li>(Field blank) [30 December 2021]<a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Republican_Party_(United_States)&oldid=1062769019">[74]</a></li> <li>(Field blank) [27 September 2021]<a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Republican_Party_(United_States)&oldid=1046752136">[75]</a></li> <li>(Field blank) [29 June 2021]<a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Republican_Party_(United_States)&oldid=1031080853">[76]</a></li> <li>(Field blank) [31 March 2021]<a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Republican_Party_(United_States)&oldid=1015346786">[77]</a></li> <li>(Field blank) [28 December 2020]<a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Republican_Party_(United_States)&oldid=996862863">[78]</a></li> <li>(Field blank) [30 June 2020]<a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Republican_Party_(United_States)&oldid=965277923">[79]</a></li> <li>(Field blank) [28 March 2020)<a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Republican_Party_(United_States)&oldid=947837164">[80]</a></li> <li>(Field blank) [30 December 2019]<a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Republican_Party_(United_States)&oldid=933202217">[81]</a></li> <li>(Field blank) [30 September 2019)<a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Republican_Party_(United_States)&oldid=980905540">[82]</a></li> <li>(Field blank) [30 June 2019]<a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Republican_Party_(United_States)&oldid=904229976">[83]</a></li> <li>(Field blank) [31 March 2019]<a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Republican_Party_(United_States)&oldid=890252186">[84]</a></li> <li>(Field blank) [28 December 2018]<a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Republican_Party_(United_States)&oldid=876205891">[85]</a></li> <li>(Field blank) [27 September 2018)<a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Republican_Party_(United_States)&oldid=861504853">[86]</a></li> <li>(Field blank) [30 June 2018]<a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Republican_Party_(United_States)&oldid=848212605">[87]</a></li> <li>(Field blank) [30 March 2018]<a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Republican_Party_(United_States)&oldid=833338986">[88]</a></li> <li>(Field blank) [28 December 2017]<a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Republican_Party_(United_States)&oldid=817468693">[89]</a></li> <li>(Field blank) [28 September 2017]<a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Republican_Party_(United_States)&oldid=802866439">[90]</a></li> <li>(Field blank) [30 June 2017]<a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Republican_Party_(United_States)&oldid=788240965">[91]</a></li> <li>(Field blank) [31 March 2017]<a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Republican_Party_(United_States)&oldid=773187185">[92]</a></li> <li>(Field blank) [31 December 2016)<a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Republican_Party_(United_States)&oldid=757419085">[93]</a></li> <li>(Field blank) [26 September 2016]<a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Republican_Party_(United_States)&oldid=741295569">[94]</a></li> <li>(Field blank) [23 June 2016]<a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Republican_Party_(United_States)&oldid=726687025">[95]</a></li> <li>(Field blank) [31 March 2016]<a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Republican_Party_(United_States)&oldid=712849561">[96]</a></li> <li>(Field blank) [29 December 2015]<a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Republican_Party_(United_States)&oldid=697292010">[97]</a></li> <li>(Field blank) [29 September 2015]<a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Republican_Party_(United_States)&oldid=683322587">[98]</a></li> <li>(Field blank) [29 June 2015]<a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Republican_Party_(United_States)&oldid=669147475">[99]</a></li> <li>(Field blank) [30 March 2015]<a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Republican_Party_(United_States)&oldid=654125268">[100]</a></li> <li>(Field blank) [31 December 2014]<a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Republican_Party_(United_States)&oldid=640434947">[101]</a></li> <li>(Field blank) [27 September 2014]<a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Republican_Party_(United_States)&oldid=627314521">[102]</a></li> <li>(Field blank) [30 June 2014]<a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Republican_Party_(United_States)&oldid=614997109">[103]</a></li> <li>(Field blank) [30 March 2014]<a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Republican_Party_(United_States)&oldid=601929243">[104]</a></li> <li>(Field blank) [27 December 2013]<a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Republican_Party_(United_States)&oldid=587976700">[105]</a></li> <li>(Field blank) [30 September 2013]<a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Republican_Party_(United_States)&oldid=575203766">[106]</a></li> <li>(Field blank) [25 June 2013]<a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Republican_Party_(United_States)&oldid=561446275">[107]</a></li> <li>(Field blank) [29 March 2013]<a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Republican_Party_(United_States)&oldid=547702861">[108]</a></li> <li>(Field blank) [31 December 2012]<a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Republican_Party_(United_States)&oldid=530596291">[109]</a></li> <li>{Field blank) [30 September 2012]<a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Republican_Party_(United_States)&oldid=515244990">[110]</a></li> <li>(Field blank) [30 June 2012]<a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Republican_Party_(United_States)&oldid=500088386">[111]</a></li> <li>"(Position in national political spectrum) Center-right" [31 March 2012]<a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Republican_Party_(United_States)&oldid=484872474">[112]</a></li> <li>(Field blank) [31 December 2011]<a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Republican_Party_(United_States)&oldid=468304491">[113]</a></li> <li>"Center-right" [26 September 2011]<a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Republican_Party_(United_States)&oldid=452596483">[114]</a></li> <li>"Center-right" [19 June 2011]<a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Republican_Party_(United_States)&oldid=435177411">[115]</a></li> <li>"Fiscal: Center-right/Social: Center-right" [31 March 2011]<a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Republican_Party_(United_States)&oldid=421604543">[116]</a></li> <li>"Fiscal: Center-right/Social: Center-right" [27 December 2010]<a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Republican_Party_(United_States)&oldid=404409908">[117]</a></li> <li>"Fiscal: Center-right/Social: Center-right" [29 September 2010]<a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Republican_Party_(United_States)&oldid=387777416">[118]</a></li> <li>"Fiscal: Center-right/Social: Center-right" [30 June 2010]<a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Republican_Party_(United_States)&oldid=371031297387777416">[119]</a></li> <li>(Field blank) [30 March 2010]<a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Republican_Party_(United_States)&oldid=352882066">[120]</a></li></ul> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading3"><h3 id="Discussion_among_uninvolved_editors_about_the_appeal_by_Toa_Nidhiki05" data-mw-thread-id="h-Discussion_among_uninvolved_editors_about_the_appeal_by_Toa_Nidhiki05-Arbitration_enforcement_action_appeal_by_Toa_Nidhiki05-20250224062900">Discussion among uninvolved editors about the appeal by Toa Nidhiki05</h3>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard&action=edit&section=35" title="Edit section: Discussion among uninvolved editors about the appeal by Toa Nidhiki05">edit</a>]</div> <ul><li>I think it's fair for Toa to ask for the specific evidence and the rationale used. One of the purposes of an appeal is to determine whether or not the admin team's decision was supported by the evidence. Rosguill is the admin that gave the most comprehensive explanation, so I'll pattern after that: <ul><li>The first issue is whether or not Toa accurately represented past talk page discussions, including the state of past consensus. <ul><li>In this appeal, Toa agrees that they argued that past consensus was to exclude the term "far-right"... and doesn't actually provide a defence here. At the AE thread, Rosguill analyzed several diffs that demonstrated Toa lied about past discussions, not just about the strength or state of consensus but about actions other editors have taken.</li> <li>In contrast, the most I can read into Toa's appeal is a claim that Chetsford's close endorsed their view. Chetsford endorsed that a no consensus result means the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:STATUSQUO" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:STATUSQUO">WP:STATUSQUO</a>. This is not an endorsement of whether Toa accurately summarized consensus, it's an acknowledgement that the article did not have "far-right" in the infobox before the RfC. For it to be an endorsement of Toa's position, it would have to explain that the status quo is a result of a specific discussion. I'll get into more detail about this later.</li> <li>Lying to influence discussions is generally considered disruptive behaviour warranting of a topic ban. Because Toa has not (yet) given reasons as to why they haven't lied, I will take Rosguill's assessment of the situation at face value, so that justifies the topic ban.</li></ul></li> <li>The second issue Toa brings up is that <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1248585704" /><q class="inline-quote-talk">the biggest example used by administrators to justify the topic ban - a refusal to engage with sources provided by Simonm223 - is not accurate.</q> <ul><li>This does not appear to be an accurate representation of the AE thread. Quoting Rosguill (emphasis added):</li> <li><link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1237805129" /><blockquote class="talkquote">Refusing to engage substantively with the sources provided by Simonm223 is not sanctionable on its own. However, taken together with the other issues identified here, and the continued general participation in proceeding discussion, it is very bad form and a missed opportunity for Toa Nidhiki05 to demonstrate good faith editing.</blockquote></li> <li>Rosguill has explicitly said that Toa's refusal to engage with Simonm223 is not the main reason for the topic-ban. Instead, Rosguill appears to be saying that if Toa displayed more collaborative behaviour elsewhere in the discussion (e.g. by conceding Simonm223 brought legitimate, peer-reviewed articles or by refuting them), that would be a mitigating factor.</li> <li>I would side with Rosguill here. Editors that consistently go out of their way to collaborate with others should get the benefit of the doubt. But let's say I completely agree with Toa's logic that this is a completely unrealistic expectation and mentally delete those paragraphs. That does not invalidate the original reason for the topic ban, which was lying about past discussions. It only invalidates a mitigating circumstance that could've gotten Toa off the hook. To be convinced, I'd have to hear from Toa how they did engage with other editors' sources.</li></ul></li> <li>Toa also cites various editors at ANI who think a topic-ban would be unjustifiable. That is unconvincing because it doesn't provide any reasoning as to why it's unjustified beyond "other people said so".</li> <li>The final argument is that because Chetsford endorsed Toa's reasoning, that makes the topic-ban unjustified. The problem with that (and I stated this above) is that Chetsford mainly endorsed Toa's reasoning that there should be a strong sourcing requirement of academic articles. That does not automatically entail endorsing everything Toa said, and as I explained above, Chetsford did not endorse the untruths about past consensus.</li></ul></li> <li>To conclude, I would endorse the t-ban. Toa's ban was primarily based on lying about past discussions, which is disruptive behaviour. Toa has not given a justification about why they did not lie about past discussions. While Toa disputes other aspects of the AE thread, failing to address the main reason one was topic-banned means the topic ban was probably justified. I'm not an admin and I'm mostly uninvolved in American politics (with the exception of <a href="/wiki/Talk:List_of_nicknames_used_by_Donald_Trump" title="Talk:List of nicknames used by Donald Trump">Talk:List of nicknames used by Donald Trump</a> and closing some RfCs). <a href="/wiki/User:Chess" title="User:Chess">Chess</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Chess" title="User talk:Chess">talk</a>) (please <a href="/wiki/Help:Talk_pages#Notifications" title="Help:Talk pages">mention</a> me on reply) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Chess-20250224062900-Discussion_among_uninvolved_editors_about_the_appeal_by_Toa_Nidhiki05" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">06:29, 24 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:Toa_Nidhiki05" title="User:Toa Nidhiki05">Toa Nidhiki05</a>: The dispute over whether you engaged with Simonm223's sources was not the main justification for the topic-ban, so adding more information on that won't convince me.</dd> <dd>Your burden (in my mind) is to show that Rosguill was wrong about the three examples cited at the AE thread of you misleading other editors. That means I disagree with Barkeep49's position that <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1248585704" /><q class="inline-quote-talk">by providing single diffs it could inaccurately suggest that whatever limited diffs I present are the only reason why I came to the conclusion I did rather than in the context of a much longer discsussion</q>: I believe it is a requirement that closers/admins should explain the reasons for their decision and explain what evidence they relied upon so others can effectively challenge the process, so I'm not giving weight to views that aren't reasoned from evidence. Point by point, your most recent comment doesn't refute Rosguill's three examples: <ul><li>Rosguill said <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1248585704" /><q class="inline-quote-talk">It is highly misleading to summarize <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Republican_Party_(United_States)/Archive_32#Souces_for_%22right-wing%22">this discussion</a> as "agreed that the initial consensus didn’t actually look at sources"</q>. I understand that your argument is that there was consensus as a result of that discussion (and others). But you haven't explained how your specific word choices were not misleading, such as the claim that the "consensus didn't actually look at sources". You'd have to give me a detailed explanation of what happened at that discussion and what part of Rosguill's point is invalid as a result.</li> <li>Rosguill said <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1248585704" /><q class="inline-quote-talk">Similarly, the <a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Republican_Party_(United_States)/Archive_33#Political_positions_being_reinstated_once_again">[121]</a> discussion which is summarized as "a later discussion found that reliable sources also say the party is center-right, and that this should be included as well" shows extensive disagreement as to whether center-right belongs in the article.</q> You haven't explained here how, at that specific article, there actually was a consensus among editors about the term "center-right".</li> <li>Rosguill said <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1248585704" /><q class="inline-quote-talk">The diff given to support "Warrenck, who did not participate in any of these to be clear, insists this never happened, despite being directed to it numerous times", does not demonstrate evidence of Warrenmck doing anything in particular.</q> Can you give the full context of what you said here, and why Rosguill misread it? This one I see your point on, and would appreciate Rosguill's clarification about.</li></ul></dd> <dd><a href="/wiki/User:Chess" title="User:Chess">Chess</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Chess" title="User talk:Chess">talk</a>) (please <a href="/wiki/Help:Talk_pages#Notifications" title="Help:Talk pages">mention</a> me on reply) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Chess-20250224212400-Chess-20250224062900" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:24, 24 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>I think Toa and Rosguill agree that the third point probably shouldn't play a role in the topic-ban. That being said, I'm not convinced by <a href="/wiki/User:Toa_Nidhiki05" title="User:Toa Nidhiki05">Toa Nidhiki05</a> that the first and second points were accurate. <ul><li>Specifically, your first point argues that this RfC<a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Republican_Party_(United_States)/Archive_31#Poll:_Should_the_article_include_a_political_position_for_the_Republican_Party_in_the_infobox?">[122]</a> didn't actually look at sources. You didn't get the t-ban for arguing that, you got the t-ban for representing that there was wide agreement with your view. So, the burden in my mind is to show that your description of <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Republican_Party_(United_States)/Archive_32#Souces_for_%22right-wing%22">this follow-up discussion</a> as <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1248585704" /><q class="inline-quote-talk">"agreed that the initial consensus didn’t actually look at sources"</q> was accurate. I'd like you to explain specifically, cited to quotes (or diffs), what parts of that discussion show an agreement the initial consensus didn't look at sources.</li> <li>Your second point again asserts that a consensus was created at <a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Republican_Party_(United_States)/Archive_33#Political_positions_being_reinstated_once_again">[123]</a>, and that the consensus stuck for 6 months. That's a <a href="/w/index.php?title=Conclusory_statement&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Conclusory statement (page does not exist)">conclusory statement</a>, because you're not explaining how, based on that discussion, a consensus was formed.</li></ul></dd> <dd><a href="/wiki/User:Chess" title="User:Chess">Chess</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Chess" title="User talk:Chess">talk</a>) (please <a href="/wiki/Help:Talk_pages#Notifications" title="Help:Talk pages">mention</a> me on reply) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Chess-20250301025400-Chess-20250224212400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:54, 1 March 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd></dl></li> <li>I really don't see much here to warrant a topic ban. Distorting/misrepresenting (if not outright lying) about sources and so on are things I've seen happen in just about every talk page discussion here. (Not to mention the gatekeeping stuff, which is occurring on a lot of pages.) What is interesting (at least to me) is the fact that this type of thing typically happens to the right-wingers here, and nothing ever happens to left-wingers. Outside of vandals, I can't think of the last time I've seen this happen to someone POV pushing left-wing talking points.<a href="/wiki/User:Rja13ww33" title="User:Rja13ww33">Rja13ww33</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Rja13ww33" title="User talk:Rja13ww33">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Rja13ww33-20250224183900-Discussion_among_uninvolved_editors_about_the_appeal_by_Toa_Nidhiki05" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:39, 24 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>"Nobody follows the rules anyways, so we should give up on enforcing the rules" doesn't explain how the t-ban failed to prevent disruption in the American Politics area, so it's not reasoning that can play a role in closing the thread. The current policy is that if one feels a left-wing editor is POV-pushing and lying about sources, one should bring that editor to <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:AE" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:AE">WP:AE</a>. <a href="/wiki/User:Chess" title="User:Chess">Chess</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Chess" title="User talk:Chess">talk</a>) (please <a href="/wiki/Help:Talk_pages#Notifications" title="Help:Talk pages">mention</a> me on reply) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Chess-20250224203500-Rja13ww33-20250224183900" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:35, 24 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Well the rules don't mean much if they are selectively enforced (or reported). <a href="/wiki/User:Rja13ww33" title="User:Rja13ww33">Rja13ww33</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Rja13ww33" title="User talk:Rja13ww33">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Rja13ww33-20250224212200-Chess-20250224203500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:22, 24 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Do something about it then. Call someone out and risk your social capital/status by filing a <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:AE" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:AE">WP:AE</a> complaint. The rules are meaningless if they're not enforced at all. <a href="/wiki/User:Chess" title="User:Chess">Chess</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Chess" title="User talk:Chess">talk</a>) (please <a href="/wiki/Help:Talk_pages#Notifications" title="Help:Talk pages">mention</a> me on reply) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Chess-20250227023600-Rja13ww33-20250224212200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:36, 27 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd></dl></dd> <dd>Yet just 3 days ago someone who generally seems to have a left-wing PoV and is not a vandal was topic banned in a thread above. And that wasn't even their first topic ban. <a href="/wiki/User:Nil_Einne" title="User:Nil Einne">Nil Einne</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Nil_Einne" title="User talk:Nil Einne">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Nil_Einne-20250224211200-Rja13ww33-20250224183900" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:12, 24 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Who are we talking about here? <a href="/wiki/User:Rja13ww33" title="User:Rja13ww33">Rja13ww33</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Rja13ww33" title="User talk:Rja13ww33">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Rja13ww33-20250224212400-Nil_Einne-20250224211200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:24, 24 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>The articles affected have been stagnant for some time...... let's see what other editors can do with the sources rather than being overwhelmed. <a href="/wiki/User:Moxy" title="User:Moxy">Moxy</a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Moxy" title="User talk:Moxy">🍁</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Moxy-20250225001700-Rja13ww33-20250224212400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:17, 25 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd> <dd>Nil Einne, I think a difference here is the editor I believe you are mentioning has quite a history of trying to push negative, partisan material into articles and also has a history of ignoring things like BRD while expressing hostility towards editors who object. As individual edits they don't obviously cross CIVIL but the sum over time is significant. <a href="/wiki/User:Springee" title="User:Springee">Springee</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Springee" title="User talk:Springee">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Springee-20250225125200-Nil_Einne-20250224211200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">12:52, 25 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>I don't want to compare the two as it's not of much relevanceto the appeal, one reason I didn't link to the thread or mention the name. My sole point is that it's ridiculous for Rja13ww3 to complain about "I can't think of the last time I've seen this happen to someone POV pushing left-wing talking points" when it happened a few days ago on this very board which is or was still visible at the time. And this editor has been topic banned before a few months ago further it isn't some non occurrence. <a href="/wiki/User:Nil_Einne" title="User:Nil Einne">Nil Einne</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Nil_Einne" title="User talk:Nil Einne">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Nil_Einne-20250225205000-Springee-20250225125200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:50, 25 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>So how about name who we are talking about so we can see how ridiculous my complaint is (second request)?<a href="/wiki/User:Rja13ww33" title="User:Rja13ww33">Rja13ww33</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Rja13ww33" title="User talk:Rja13ww33">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Rja13ww33-20250225210200-Nil_Einne-20250225205000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:02, 25 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>No for the reasons stated. Springee has established that it did happen if you doubt it. If you can't figure it out on your own, maybe just accept that AE topic bans happen all the time many without even making it to ARE or AN and you don't know about them all? They are of course always logged. <a href="/wiki/User:Nil_Einne" title="User:Nil Einne">Nil Einne</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Nil_Einne" title="User talk:Nil Einne">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Nil_Einne-20250225212000-Rja13ww33-20250225210200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:20, 25 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Well I guess I'll have to ask Springee (although he has noted some issues with this comparison, whatever it may be).<a href="/wiki/User:Rja13ww33" title="User:Rja13ww33">Rja13ww33</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Rja13ww33" title="User talk:Rja13ww33">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Rja13ww33-20250225213400-Nil_Einne-20250225212000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:34, 25 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd> <dd>(<a href="/wiki/Help:Edit_conflict" title="Help:Edit conflict">edit conflict</a>) BTW having looked at the logs for 2024 and 2025, for AP only there were less individual sanctions than I expected but also I challenge anyone to argue it's only right wingers who are sanctioned. If anything I saw more editors who seem to have a left-wing PoV there and at least it's about 50-50. Of course we're talking under 15 editors so any stats are fairly silly anyway <a href="/wiki/User:Nil_Einne" title="User:Nil Einne">Nil Einne</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Nil_Einne" title="User talk:Nil Einne">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Nil_Einne-20250225214300-Nil_Einne-20250225212000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:43, 25 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>I sure haven't seen it. The sanctions I have typically seen against left-wingers here (at least on the American politics pages I monitor) are almost always cut and dried stuff (like 3RR and so on). Or we are talking about trolls with not much of a posting history. I (almost never) see the kind of charges brought against Toa leveled against left-wingers.<a href="/wiki/User:Rja13ww33" title="User:Rja13ww33">Rja13ww33</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Rja13ww33" title="User talk:Rja13ww33">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Rja13ww33-20250225220000-Nil_Einne-20250225214300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:00, 25 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>{{<a href="/w/index.php?title=Template:UnpopularOpinionPuffin&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Template:UnpopularOpinionPuffin (page does not exist)">UnpopularOpinionPuffin</a>}} Just going to note here that even if this is absolutely true, there's an alternative hypothesis to 'Wikipedia is biased': that people on one side of the political spectrum are more likely to step in it than the other. - <a href="/wiki/User:The_Bushranger" title="User:The Bushranger">The Bushranger</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:The_Bushranger" title="User talk:The Bushranger">One ping only</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-The_Bushranger-20250226021200-Rja13ww33-20250225220000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:12, 26 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>This is important to keep in mind. Wikipedia's core policies are affected by <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:ACADEMICBIAS" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:ACADEMICBIAS">WP:ACADEMICBIAS</a> - we treat high-impact academic sources, and the mainstream media, as being generally neutral and reliable; conversely, while some sources may be very high-quality and considered the paper of record or a gold standard in their topic area or the like, no individual source is given absolute authority (which particularly means religious sources.) If you look at the current political alignments in the United States, this is going to frustrate people on the American right, since their political alliances contain many more people who reject academia and the mainstream media, or who believe that religious writings should be the ultimate source of truth. People like that, editing here, are going to have to constantly grind their teeth as they're forced to accept that the New York Times is a better source than Fox News, or that a peer-reviewed paper by Nikole Hannah-Jones is a better source than Newsmax, or that a big pile of academics and historians can have more weight than what they consider divinely-ordained truth, or that we need to take a global viewpoint as opposed to a nationalist one. And a lot of them are unable to cope with that to the point where they're just not able to fit in here - if someone can't work with those things then they're literally <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:NOTHERE" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:NOTHERE">not here</a> to write an encyclopedia, as we describe it. Obviously there's a wide range of people out there with a wide range of views and we get good editors or bad ones from all over the political spectrum (the list of banned left-leaning editors contains plenty of people who eg. reject the mainstream media, too); but in terms of its basic structure and viewpoint, the focus of the American Right, as it is now, is structured in a way that creates a core tension with trying to write a neutral, global encyclopedia based on high-quality academic sources and mainstream papers of record, which means it wouldn't be surprising for us to get more <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:NOTHERE" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:NOTHERE">WP:NOTHERE</a> editors from the right. And this also creates, I think, a sense among some right-leaning editors that they're being oppressed even when eg. the statistics show we're nonetheless banning people roughly evenly - because the core of Wikipedia's purpose is, in fact, sometimes incompatible with their outlook and beliefs. Their reaction is similar to the reaction they have to academia, which is inevitable given that Wikipedia is fundimentially academic in structure - they see their ideas and beliefs being, in their eyes, disrespected, and to them this refusal to engage in <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:FALSEBALANCE" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:FALSEBALANCE">WP:FALSEBALANCE</a> is evidence of bias. --<a href="/wiki/User:Aquillion" title="User:Aquillion">Aquillion</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Aquillion" title="User talk:Aquillion">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Aquillion-20250227150100-The_Bushranger-20250226021200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:01, 27 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>There is truth there but I didn't think that covers all of the topic. When it comes to behavioral issues there is a perception and concern that being aligned with the general majority results in more latitude given to otherwise the same behaviors. There are quite a few discussions about the unlockable editors, the editors who are often uncivil but it's "ok because they do good work". The same behavior in an editor who is going against the majority would be quickly squashed. There is also a concern that articles move from impartial to negative based on how much emphasis wiki editors place on RS'ed content they feel is DUE. See the debate about Patel and conspiracies theorist in the opening sentence. I know I've been accused of white washing right wing figures but that isn't my intent. Though it happens far less I've also rejected such content on left wing topics/people. This is why I often think it's worth looking at En. Britannica as a reference not for specific content but rather for tone and weight. When editors are fighting to make an article more negative we should err on the side of caution left or right. That's the difference between an encyclopedia entry and a commentary article. <a href="/wiki/User:Springee" title="User:Springee">Springee</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Springee" title="User talk:Springee">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Springee-20250227153100-Aquillion-20250227150100" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:31, 27 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Well put Springee. <a href="/wiki/User:Rja13ww33" title="User:Rja13ww33">Rja13ww33</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Rja13ww33" title="User talk:Rja13ww33">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Rja13ww33-20250227184900-Springee-20250227153100" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:49, 27 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd> <dd>Well anyone can claim they did or did not see something in their experience. It's fairly useless as evidence for anything. As I said if we examine the evidence it tells a different story. This year 2025 there have been 7 editors with logged actions on AP <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration_enforcement_log/2025" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration enforcement log/2025">Wikipedia:Arbitration enforcement log/2025</a>. 3 of these have under 250 edits so I think we can ignore them as insignificant. Of the remaining, one of them only received a warning, actually this was at the same time as Toa's sanction I believe. Another only received a 1 week partial block so again seems to be whatever. So of the two remaining editors there's Toa and an editor who largely edits from the left. Going back to 2024 <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration_enforcement_log/2024" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration enforcement log/2024">Wikipedia:Arbitration enforcement log/2024</a>, I count logged actions involving 14 editors. Two of them have now been blocked as sockpuppeters, so I think we can ignore these two. One has under 200 edits and was eventually indefed for spending all their time arguing while another with under 150 edits was indeffed for making legal threata, again I think we can ignore these two as well. Another just received a warning, again seems reasonable to ignore it. Another received just a one week partial block, so seems fair to ignore it. One initially received a 24 hour block later converted to an ordinary block, again seems fair to ignore it. (This editor was later indeffed as an ordinary admin action then eventual found to have socked anyway.) One received a 24 hour block again can be ignored especially since they were later found to have socked. So that's 8 editors. Of the remaining 6. One left leaning editor received a 90 day topic ban from a specific article, we could ignore this but it's the same editor who generally seems to have a left-wing PoV, who was recently indefinitely topic banned, they also received a warning in 2024 so seems fair to count it them to me. Another editor who again seems to have generally a left-wing PoV received 6 month topic bans. And yet another who seems to generally have a left-wing PoV received a voluntarily but enforceable ban for 6 months. AFAIS, none of these cases were 3RR or anything that simple. One editor who I'd say has more right-wing PoV successfully appealed a topic ban. Another who's PoV I really have no idea successfully appealed a topic ban. Toa of course also successfully appealed their topic ban. (To be clear, all these appealed topic bans don't show up in the 2024 log, I assume they were from before.) So again where's the evidence for your claim? Note I am not interested in discussing Springee's claim that editors who operate from a right wing PoV are generally sanctioned more severely. That's a much more sophisticated claim which requires careful analysis of the relative behaviours etc which IMO seems clearly offtopic here. However the claim that left-leaning editors are never sanctioned is IMO clearly silly when we examine the evidence. I only did a quickish analysis so perhaps I missed one editor or two. And this is only editors sanctioned under CTOP for AP rather than those who receive a community ban or whatever; and any of those blocked as an ordinary admin action. And I guess some might quibble with excluding those editors with very limited sanctions feeling they need to be counted. (Although I'd note I'm unconvinced even if we count these there's a clear bias.) Likewise I guess some may suggest we drove those who were socks into socking due to unfair treatment or those who had very few edits would have made brilliant editors but they gave up or whatever. However this seems to cut both ways. One reason it seems to me fair to exclude them is because the initial statement said "outside of vandals" so IMO it's fair to exclude anyone who doesn't seem to have fairly engaged with wikipedia or who have very few edits even if they're not vandals. Of course even an editor who has socked can make it back, in fact the editor who's PoV I don't know who successfully appealed their ban did get in trouble for socking in prior years, but redeemed themselves enough that they managed to appeal their ban and have so far not received any further ban. However those editors who got in trouble last year, haven't yet managed to do so. <a href="/wiki/User:Nil_Einne" title="User:Nil Einne">Nil Einne</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Nil_Einne" title="User talk:Nil Einne">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Nil_Einne-20250301125300-Rja13ww33-20250225220000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">12:53, 1 March 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Well no offense, but pardon me if I don't take your word for those situations.....considering the fact you wouldn't reveal the comparison you made here <a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia%3AAdministrators%27_noticeboard&diff=1277640381&oldid=1277640265">[124]</a>....and I don't blame you (now that Springee has told me who you are comparing), considering those situations really aren't that comparable. <a href="/wiki/User:Rja13ww33" title="User:Rja13ww33">Rja13ww33</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Rja13ww33" title="User talk:Rja13ww33">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Rja13ww33-20250303053100-Nil_Einne-20250301125300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">05:31, 3 March 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></li> <li>IMHO, his t-ban should be lifted. At the very least, shorten the t-ban to six months. <a href="/wiki/User:GoodDay" title="User:GoodDay">GoodDay</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:GoodDay" title="User talk:GoodDay">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-GoodDay-20250225002100-Discussion_among_uninvolved_editors_about_the_appeal_by_Toa_Nidhiki05" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:21, 25 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li> <li>I don't think a tban was warranted here. If admins felt some type of sanction was warranted I would suggest something that slowed down the number of rapid fire replies vs an outright Tban. TN did engage with the sources presented to them on the talk page. In particular a large number of sources were presented as "proof" for one of the discussions. TN took the time to review the sources and explain why most failed WP:V. That is exactly the sort of thing we want an editor to be willing to do. I don't see the claim of prior consensus as a critical issue since, during a rapid fire series of responses, a case where an editor is basically being tag teamed, it's easy to overstate the outcome of discussions buried in the talk archives. This is especially true when some of the involved editors, including the one who brought the original complaint, were making questionable article level edits rather than getting consensus first. If I was going to be critical of TN's actions I would say the worst thing they did was reply too quickly, too often. TN was civil the whole time (something even the complainant admitted). If a sanction is needed I would suggest something like a daily reply limit. That keeps the flood of replies down and often forces the limited person to more carefully weigh their replies since they can't fire off a large number of short replies. I suggested this to, I think, <a href="/wiki/User:Barkeep49" title="User:Barkeep49">Barkeep49</a> at the time and would suggest it again as a minimum sanction needed to address the problem. <a href="/wiki/User:Springee" title="User:Springee">Springee</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Springee" title="User talk:Springee">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Springee-20250225124800-Discussion_among_uninvolved_editors_about_the_appeal_by_Toa_Nidhiki05" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">12:48, 25 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Several editors have said TN doesn't look at sources added by others. Here is an example where they reviewed a whole list of sources added to the article. I'm not sure why it was already in the archive since the discussion related to the far-right sources <a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Republican_Party_(United_States)/Archive_36#Addition_of_new_content_that_doesn't_back_up_claims">[125]</a> and the discussion was just just a month back. I haven't traced through the article edits to see who added these to the article. Regardless, other than the rapid fire discussion getting in the way, TN clearly is willing to review sources and engage in discussions of the same. Around the this of these accusations there was so much rapid fire editing that is was hard to follow all of it and take the time needed for detailed replies. <a href="/wiki/User:Springee" title="User:Springee">Springee</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Springee" title="User talk:Springee">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Springee-20250225145500-Springee-20250225124800" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">14:55, 25 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></li></ul> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Oversight_removed_revisions,_are_some_of_them_lost?" data-mw-thread-id="h-Oversight_removed_revisions,_are_some_of_them_lost?-20250224183700">Oversight removed revisions, are some of them lost?</h2>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard&action=edit&section=36" title="Edit section: Oversight removed revisions, are some of them lost?">edit</a>]<div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1250141580" /><div class="boilerplate archived archive-top mw-archivedtalk" style=""><link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1235681985" /><div class="side-box metadata side-box-right archive-top-result" style="padding: 10px; line-height: inherit;"> <div class="side-box-flex"> <div class="side-box-text" style="padding: 0;">Query addressed. <a href="/wiki/User:Liz" title="User:Liz">Liz</a> <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Liz" title="Special:Contributions/Liz">Read!</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Liz" title="User talk:Liz">Talk!</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Liz-20250224195900-Oversight_removed_revisions,_are_some_of_them_lost?" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:59, 24 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</div></div> </div> <div class="boilerplate-header" style="margin-left: 1.6em; font-style: italic;"> The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion. </div> <hr /> Something <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:BLP" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:BLP">WP:BLP</a> related happened here: <a class="external free" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Department_of_Government_Efficiency&action=history">https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Department_of_Government_Efficiency&action=history</a> It looks like there was at least one new section unrelated to the BLP thing plus a few other unrelated replies? Are those toast? Should the users be notified to redo their comments on a clean talk page? -- <a href="/wiki/User:Very_Polite_Person" title="User:Very Polite Person">Very Polite Person</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Very_Polite_Person" title="User talk:Very Polite Person">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Very_Polite_Person-20250224183700-Oversight_removed_revisions,_are_some_of_them_lost?" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:37, 24 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>If the new section is still present on more recent revisions than those Suppression touched, then no. If that isn't the case (i.e. the section is collateral damage) then inviting the editor to re-do the section or asking a Suppressor to restore the section specifically is a good idea. —<a href="/wiki/User:J%C3%A9sk%C3%A9_Couriano" title="User:Jéské Couriano">Jéské Couriano</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:J%C3%A9sk%C3%A9_Couriano" title="User talk:Jéské Couriano">v^_^v</a> <a href="/wiki/User:J%C3%A9sk%C3%A9_Couriano/AG" class="mw-redirect" title="User:Jéské Couriano/AG">threads</a> <a href="/wiki/User:J%C3%A9sk%C3%A9_Couriano/Decode" title="User:Jéské Couriano/Decode">critiques</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Jéské_Couriano-20250224184200-Very_Polite_Person-20250224183700" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:42, 24 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>The offending content has been removed. The intervening edits to the page history where this content was visible have been suppressed. All of the other edits made in the intervening time between when the content was posted and when it was removed are fine. <a href="/wiki/User:Liz" title="User:Liz">Liz</a> <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Liz" title="Special:Contributions/Liz">Read!</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Liz" title="User talk:Liz">Talk!</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Liz-20250224191900-Jéské_Couriano-20250224184200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:19, 24 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Thanks, so nothing to do? -- <a href="/wiki/User:Very_Polite_Person" title="User:Very Polite Person">Very Polite Person</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Very_Polite_Person" title="User talk:Very Polite Person">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Very_Polite_Person-20250224192500-Liz-20250224191900" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:25, 24 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>No, <a href="/wiki/User:Very_Polite_Person" title="User:Very Polite Person">Very Polite Person</a>, I don't believe so. Suppression of content on this project is very infrequent and is targeted so that any other comments on a talk page are preserved. <a href="/wiki/User:Liz" title="User:Liz">Liz</a> <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Liz" title="Special:Contributions/Liz">Read!</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Liz" title="User talk:Liz">Talk!</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Liz-20250224194100-Very_Polite_Person-20250224192500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:41, 24 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div style="padding-left: 1.6em; font-style: italic; border-top: 1px solid #a2a9b1; margin: 0.5em 0; padding-top: 0.5em">The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.</div> </div><div style="clear:both;" class=""></div> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Consistently_disruptive_user" data-mw-thread-id="h-Consistently_disruptive_user-20250224204100">Consistently disruptive user</h2>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard&action=edit&section=37" title="Edit section: Consistently disruptive user">edit</a>]<div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> I'd like to request that a particularly disruptive user please be dealt with. <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/2405:201:5506:9105:71AF:4BCE:DC10:5BB5" title="Special:Contributions/2405:201:5506:9105:71AF:4BCE:DC10:5BB5">Special:Contributions/2405:201:5506:9105:71AF:4BCE:DC10:5BB5</a> is one IP in particular which I suspect is just one of many from the same user, who in particular causes disruptions on Bollywood-related pages. It's been ongoing for a long while at this point and adds nothing of substance to Wikipedia <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Theudariks_2.0&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Theudariks 2.0 (page does not exist)">Theudariks 2.0</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Theudariks_2.0" title="User talk:Theudariks 2.0">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Theudariks_2.0-20250224204100-Consistently_disruptive_user" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:41, 24 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd><a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Theudariks_2.0&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Theudariks 2.0 (page does not exist)">Theudariks 2.0</a>, can you please provide <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:DIFF" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:DIFF">diffs</a> of three or four obviously disruptive edits? Thanks. <a href="/wiki/User:Cullen328" title="User:Cullen328">Cullen328</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Cullen328" title="User talk:Cullen328">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Cullen328-20250225003300-Theudariks_2.0-20250224204100" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:33, 25 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Here are a few <a class="external free" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=List_of_Dharma_Productions_films&diff=prev&oldid=1277375373">https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=List_of_Dharma_Productions_films&diff=prev&oldid=1277375373</a> , <a class="external free" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Jolly_LLB_3&diff=prev&oldid=1277403381">https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Jolly_LLB_3&diff=prev&oldid=1277403381</a> , ...and I say it's repetitive because this has happened before. Bearing in mind the fact that these actors are not reported to have been involved with one film here in particular (I've searched myself), [<a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Jolly_LLB_3&diff=1258728377&oldid=1258727535%7Cthis">link</a>] from an different IP address from November last year edited the page and included many of the same additions as a much more recent one. It can't be coincidental — Preceding <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Signatures" title="Wikipedia:Signatures">unsigned</a> comment added by <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Theudariks_2.0&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Theudariks 2.0 (page does not exist)">Theudariks 2.0</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Theudariks_2.0#top" title="User talk:Theudariks 2.0">talk</a> • <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Theudariks_2.0" title="Special:Contributions/Theudariks 2.0">contribs</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Theudariks_2.0-20250225021800-Cullen328-20250225003300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:18, 25 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Page_protecting_WP:RA/BAE" data-mw-thread-id="h-Page_protecting_WP:RA/BAE-20250224234300">Page protecting <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:RA/BAE" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:RA/BAE">WP:RA/BAE</a></h2>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard&action=edit&section=38" title="Edit section: Page protecting WP:RA/BAE">edit</a>]<div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> Moving discussion here from <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Requests_for_page_protection/Archive/2025/02#Wikipedia:Requested_articles" title="Wikipedia:Requests for page protection/Archive/2025/02">WP:RPPI</a> by recommendation. (Given the inactivity of the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Requested_articles" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Requested articles">WikiProject Requested articles</a>,) some of the subpages of <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:RA" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:RA">WP:RA</a> are unmoderated and prone to accumulating cruft. I assumed it might be an issue across the entire project, but <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Requested_articles/Business_and_economics" title="Wikipedia:Requested articles/Business and economics">Wikipedia:Requested articles/Business and economics</a> stands out as exceptionally unmoderated, with the occasional attempted intervention to little long-term success; I echo <a href="/wiki/User:CactusWriter" title="User:CactusWriter">CactusWriter</a>'s <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Log&logid=167266387">assessment</a> (from another subpage) that this has been "unpreventable by pending changes setting". I encourage browsing the last year or so of contributions to <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:RA/BAE" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:RA/BAE">WP:RA/BAE</a>. I am requesting semi-protection on <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:RA/BAE" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:RA/BAE">WP:RA/BAE</a> and all its subpages. I initially proposed protection on the entire project (partly based on IP users simply gravitating to the next unprotected subpage), but upon review, it seems like the majority of the other pages are cultivated more actively. <a href="/wiki/User:Tule-hog" title="User:Tule-hog">Tule-hog</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Tule-hog" title="User talk:Tule-hog">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Tule-hog-20250224234300-Page_protecting_WP:RA/BAE" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:43, 24 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Don't we want those pages to accumulate cruft? Their essentially sole purpose is as a place to divert some COI editors to in lieu of spamming—with the worst bits conveniently subpaged off and not transcluded, so that anyone actually looking for an article to write about a business topic doesn't even need to look at them. A better proposal might just be having a bot remove entries after a year, when whichever hapless intern added the entry to show their boss "See, I did it" has hopefully moved on to some other company. -- <a href="/wiki/User:Tamzin" title="User:Tamzin">Tamzin</a>[<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Tamzin" title="User talk:Tamzin">cetacean needed</a>] (<a href="/wiki/User:Tamzin/%F0%9F%A4%B7" class="mw-redirect" title="User:Tamzin/🤷">they|xe|🤷</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Tamzin-20250224234700-Tule-hog-20250224234300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:47, 24 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>There's one IPv6/64 that's made over 4500 new article requests. That goes beyond being diverted. I've now blocked them from <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Requested_articles" title="Wikipedia:Requested articles">Wikipedia:Requested articles</a>. I don't know if that block covers the subpages. If not, it can be readjusted.</dd> <dd>Maybe that'll help. Their favorite target was business and economics. 2804:14C:5BB1:9473:0:0:0:0/64 — <a href="/wiki/User:Rsjaffe" title="User:Rsjaffe">rsjaffe</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Rsjaffe" title="User talk:Rsjaffe">🗣️</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Rsjaffe-20250225012400-Tamzin-20250224234700" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:24, 25 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Ehh. I changed the block to the Wikipedia namespace. Looks like each of the requested articles subpages are separately listed.</dd> <dd>This /64 has also been sniping at @<a href="/wiki/User:Tule-hog" title="User:Tule-hog">Tule-hog</a>, which is how I started picking up on this issue. For example, there's a report at UAA: <a href="/wiki/Special:PermanentLink/1261179669#User-reported_2" title="Special:PermanentLink/1261179669">Special:Permalink/1261179669#User-reported 2</a> I've notified the last active member of the /64 of this discussion. — <a href="/wiki/User:Rsjaffe" title="User:Rsjaffe">rsjaffe</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Rsjaffe" title="User talk:Rsjaffe">🗣️</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Rsjaffe-20250225013600-Rsjaffe-20250225012400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:36, 25 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Was writing a response and collected some diffs but no need for that now I suppose. Might be feasible to permit requests via the talk pages, as they have made some meaningful requests.</dd> <dd>Thanks for pointing me to the report - I was certainly confused about <a href="/wiki/Special:Diff/1277365616" title="Special:Diff/1277365616">these</a> <a href="/wiki/Special:Diff/1277365878" title="Special:Diff/1277365878">edits</a> (funnily enough, just brushed them off as a dog whistle I wasn't picking up on).</dd> <dd>Is it a checkuser/admin feature to check a /64 range edit count (of IP users), or is that public somewhere? <a href="/wiki/User:Tule-hog" title="User:Tule-hog">Tule-hog</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Tule-hog" title="User talk:Tule-hog">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Tule-hog-20250225015300-Rsjaffe-20250225013600" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:53, 25 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Huh, I had no idea XTools could do this, but apparently <a rel="nofollow" class="external autonumber" href="https://xtools.wmcloud.org/ec/en.wikipedia.org/ipr-2804:14C:5BB1:9473:0:0:0:0/64">[126]</a> works. It says the /64 has 4,869 edits, 85% of them to projectspace. -- <a href="/wiki/User:Tamzin" title="User:Tamzin">Tamzin</a>[<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Tamzin" title="User talk:Tamzin">cetacean needed</a>] (<a href="/wiki/User:Tamzin/%F0%9F%A4%B7" class="mw-redirect" title="User:Tamzin/🤷">they|xe|🤷</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Tamzin-20250225015700-Tule-hog-20250225015300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:57, 25 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>3,359 edits to <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Requested_articles/Business_and_economics" title="Wikipedia:Requested articles/Business and economics">Wikipedia:Requested articles/Business and economics</a>! If you did want them to have access to the associated talk pages, I could change the block to the 10 most-used pages of that /64.</dd> <dd>If you look at article space, this /64 is also problematic. I think the IP hopping nature of IPv6 is causing trouble in detecting long-term issues, as each individual member of the /64 range is usually viewed separately when looking at contributions. — <a href="/wiki/User:Rsjaffe" title="User:Rsjaffe">rsjaffe</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Rsjaffe" title="User talk:Rsjaffe">🗣️</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Rsjaffe-20250225021800-Tamzin-20250225015700" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:18, 25 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:Rsjaffe" title="User:Rsjaffe">Rsjaffe</a>: A block from WPspace doesn't affect WTspace, so the block as-is should work fine. And yeah, this is a longstanding issue with fast-rotating IPv6s. For better or for worse, it'll be addressed once we switch to <a href="https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Trust_and_Safety_Product/Temporary_Accounts" class="extiw" title="mw:Trust and Safety Product/Temporary Accounts">temporary accounts</a>, as those are cookie-based rather than IP-based. -- <a href="/wiki/User:Tamzin" title="User:Tamzin">Tamzin</a>[<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Tamzin" title="User talk:Tamzin">cetacean needed</a>] (<a href="/wiki/User:Tamzin/%F0%9F%A4%B7" class="mw-redirect" title="User:Tamzin/🤷">they|xe|🤷</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Tamzin-20250225023000-Rsjaffe-20250225021800" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:30, 25 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd> <dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:Rsjaffe" title="User:Rsjaffe">Rsjaffe</a> <a href="/wiki/Special:Diff/1277518873" title="Special:Diff/1277518873">Special:Diff/1277518873</a> could be a coincidence but unlikely given <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/103.152.255.235" title="Special:Contributions/103.152.255.235">103.152.255.235</a>'s block log and <a href="/wiki/Anti-Muslim_propaganda_on_Facebook" title="Anti-Muslim propaganda on Facebook">interacting with the same page</a> as the /64. <a href="/wiki/User:Tule-hog" title="User:Tule-hog">Tule-hog</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Tule-hog" title="User talk:Tule-hog">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Tule-hog-20250225031500-Tule-hog-20250224234300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">03:15, 25 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Goodness the team over at <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Sockpuppet_investigations/TyMega/Archive" title="Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/TyMega/Archive">SPI</a> does some deep digging. Officially filing <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Sockpuppet_investigations/TyMega" title="Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/TyMega">there</a>. <a href="/wiki/User:Tule-hog" title="User:Tule-hog">Tule-hog</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Tule-hog" title="User talk:Tule-hog">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Tule-hog-20250225032000-Tule-hog-20250225031500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">03:20, 25 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd> <dd>That IPv4 is unlikely to be connected to the IPv6. Different continents, though there is proxy use on the IPv4. The redirect changes are a bit different between the IPv4 and IPv6. The IPv6 user is probably a native Spanish speaker and is interested in fascism and socialism. TyMega IPs are typically on a different continent than either the IPv4 or the IPv6. But, no harm in asking. They won't be able to announce whether checkuser links the IP users to TyMega for privacy purposes. — <a href="/wiki/User:Rsjaffe" title="User:Rsjaffe">rsjaffe</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Rsjaffe" title="User talk:Rsjaffe">🗣️</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Rsjaffe-20250225033000-Tule-hog-20250225031500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">03:30, 25 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>The IPv4 is a VPN, now blocked. — <a href="/wiki/User:Malcolmxl5" title="User:Malcolmxl5">Malcolmxl5</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Malcolmxl5" title="User talk:Malcolmxl5">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Malcolmxl5-20250226132800-Rsjaffe-20250225033000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">13:28, 26 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>User still <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Sockpuppet_investigations/2804:14C:5BB1:9473:0:0:0:0" title="Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/2804:14C:5BB1:9473:0:0:0:0">skirting block via proxy</a>. <a href="/wiki/User:Tule-hog" title="User:Tule-hog">Tule-hog</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Tule-hog" title="User talk:Tule-hog">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Tule-hog-20250226152700-Malcolmxl5-20250226132800" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:27, 26 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd> <dd>I agree with Tule-hog that these backwater "Requested biography article" pages can be problematic -- not just packed with cruft but persistently loaded with BLP issues. They are also rarely watched. I worked on cleaning up the BLP problems about 15 years ago then moved on and only recently returned to remove a lot of questionable entries. <a href="/wiki/User:Wizardman" title="User:Wizardman">Wizardman</a> has also done a lot of work there and instituted pending changes to some pages <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Log&logid=62496988">10 years ago.</a> But I find that the pending changes are being too readily accepted -- especially when a single IP jams in dozens of entries at a time -- and are no longer effective at keeping out the bad entries. And the one particular IPv6 mentioned rotates so quickly that any blocks seem ineffective. Instead, I chose to restrict access to only autoconfirmed accounts with short term protections (30 days). I think it may be best to extend these protections indefinitely. — <a href="/wiki/User:CactusWriter" title="User:CactusWriter">CactusWriter </a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:CactusWriter" title="User talk:CactusWriter">(talk)</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-CactusWriter-20250226175600-Tule-hog-20250224234300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:56, 26 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd> <dd>I have semi-protected <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:RA/BAE" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:RA/BAE">WP:RA/BAE</a>, since the block doesn't seem to be working. <a href="/wiki/User:Pppery" title="User:Pppery">* Pppery *</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Pppery" title="User talk:Pppery">it has begun...</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Pppery-20250227175900-Tule-hog-20250224234300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:59, 27 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Thanks. I may request protection of the following subpages in future as well, depending on the efficacy of protecting the main page: <ul><li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Requested_articles/Business_and_economics/Organizations" title="Wikipedia:Requested articles/Business and economics/Organizations">/Organizations</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Requested_articles/Business_and_economics/People_in_business" title="Wikipedia:Requested articles/Business and economics/People in business">/People in business</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Requested_articles/Business_and_economics/Companies/A-E" title="Wikipedia:Requested articles/Business and economics/Companies/A-E">/Companies/A-E</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Requested_articles/Business_and_economics/Companies/F-L" title="Wikipedia:Requested articles/Business and economics/Companies/F-L">/Companies/F-L</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Requested_articles/Business_and_economics/Companies/M-S" title="Wikipedia:Requested articles/Business and economics/Companies/M-S">/Companies/M-S</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Requested_articles/Business_and_economics/Companies/T-Z" title="Wikipedia:Requested articles/Business and economics/Companies/T-Z">/Companies/T-Z</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Requested_articles/Business_and_economics/Economic_theory_and_history" title="Wikipedia:Requested articles/Business and economics/Economic theory and history">/Economic theory and history</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Requested_articles/Business_and_economics/Finance" title="Wikipedia:Requested articles/Business and economics/Finance">/Finance</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Requested_articles/Business_and_economics/Economics_terminology" title="Wikipedia:Requested articles/Business and economics/Economics terminology">/Economics terminology</a></li></ul></dd> <dd><a href="/wiki/User:Tule-hog" title="User:Tule-hog">Tule-hog</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Tule-hog" title="User talk:Tule-hog">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Tule-hog-20250227182000-Pppery-20250227175900" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:20, 27 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Collecting RA pages with recent block evasion by the IP user: <ul><li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Requested_articles/Mathematics" title="Wikipedia:Requested articles/Mathematics">/Mathematics</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Requested_articles/Social_sciences" title="Wikipedia:Requested articles/Social sciences">/Social sciences</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Requested_articles/Applied_arts_and_sciences/Technology_and_tools" title="Wikipedia:Requested articles/Applied arts and sciences/Technology and tools">/Applied arts and sciences/Technology and tools</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Requested_articles/Social_sciences/Religion" title="Wikipedia:Requested articles/Social sciences/Religion">/Social sciences/Religion</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Requested_articles/Natural_sciences/Physics" title="Wikipedia:Requested articles/Natural sciences/Physics">/Natural sciences/Physics</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Requested_articles/Medicine" title="Wikipedia:Requested articles/Medicine">/Medicine</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Requested_articles/Social_sciences/History" title="Wikipedia:Requested articles/Social sciences/History">/Social sciences/History</a></li></ul></dd> <dd><a href="/wiki/User:Tule-hog" title="User:Tule-hog">Tule-hog</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Tule-hog" title="User talk:Tule-hog">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Tule-hog-20250228160900-Tule-hog-20250227182000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:09, 28 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="CheckUser_consultations,_February_2025" data-mw-thread-id="h-CheckUser_consultations,_February_2025-20250225010900">CheckUser consultations, February 2025</h2>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard&action=edit&section=39" title="Edit section: CheckUser consultations, February 2025">edit</a>]<div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> The Arbitration Committee has received applications for <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:CheckUser" title="Wikipedia:CheckUser">CheckUser</a> access and has reviewed them in consultation with the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Functionaries" title="Wikipedia:Functionaries">functionaries team</a>. The Community is invited to evaluate the candidacies and comment at <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration_Committee/CheckUser_and_Oversight/Rolling_appointments/February_2025" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration Committee/CheckUser and Oversight/Rolling appointments/February 2025">the CheckUser consultations</a> until the end of 3 March 2025 (UTC). On behalf of the Committee, <a href="/wiki/User:Primefac" title="User:Primefac">Primefac</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Primefac" title="User talk:Primefac">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Primefac-20250225010900-CheckUser_consultations,_February_2025" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:09, 25 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Discuss this at: <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Arbitration_Committee/Noticeboard#CheckUser_consultations,_February_2025" title="Wikipedia talk:Arbitration Committee/Noticeboard">Wikipedia talk:Arbitration Committee/Noticeboard § CheckUser consultations, February 2025</a></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Tamzin:_Appeal_of_voluntary_adminning_restriction" data-mw-thread-id="h-Tamzin:_Appeal_of_voluntary_adminning_restriction-20250225013600">Tamzin: Appeal of voluntary adminning restriction</h2>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard&action=edit&section=40" title="Edit section: Tamzin: Appeal of voluntary adminning restriction">edit</a>]<div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1250141580" /><div class="boilerplate archived archive-top mw-archivedtalk" style=""><link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1235681985" /><div class="side-box metadata side-box-right archive-top-result" style="padding: 10px; line-height: inherit;"> <div class="side-box-flex"> <div class="side-box-text" style="padding: 0;">There is clear support for Tamzin's appeal of their/xyr self imposed restriction. <a href="/wiki/User:Star_Mississippi" title="User:Star Mississippi">Star</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Star_Mississippi" title="User talk:Star Mississippi">Mississippi</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Star_Mississippi-20250226025400-Tamzin:_Appeal_of_voluntary_adminning_restriction" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:54, 26 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</div></div> </div> <div class="boilerplate-header" style="margin-left: 1.6em; font-style: italic;"> The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion. </div> <hr /> During my RfA 3 years ago, I <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Requests_for_adminship/Tamzin#A18" title="Wikipedia:Requests for adminship/Tamzin">pledged</a> <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1248585704" /><q class="inline-quote-talk inline-quote-talk-marks">I would not take administrative action in disputes that substantially pertain to Donald Trump or users who advertise their support for him, outside of super-blatant disruption like someone spamming an anti- or pro-Trump catchphrase across a bunch of talk pages</q>. While RfA promises are not binding, I have nonetheless treated this like a TBAN imposed by the community. In that spirit, I would like to now appeal the restriction to the community. Like many people who appeal TBANs, I am appealing less because I want to do the exact thing restricted, and more because of the chilling effect it causes. When I made this pledge, Donald Trump was a former president at perhaps his 10-year nadir in relevance. Complying with my restriction meant not taking action if I happened to learn someone was a Trump supporter, but this rarely came up; it's not like I was checking every user's userpage for pro-Trump userboxen, and I did not infer support for Trump based on other political views. But now Trump is—in case any of y'all missed this—the president, and that complicates things. I recently for the first time ran into <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Drmies/Archive_151#Quick_A134_sockblock" title="User talk:Drmies/Archive 151">a situation</a> where I was prevented from blocking a sockpuppet because of it. A few weeks later, I went to clerk <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Sockpuppet_investigations/Kentuckian" title="Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Kentuckian">an SPI</a> where userpage similarities were part of the evidence, but one user's Trump userbox prevents me from resolving it with the AGF warning I'd otherwise give. But more common than these two direct cases are ones where I worry that some admin action (for instance, my protection of <a href="/wiki/Linda_L._Fagan" title="Linda L. Fagan">Linda L. Fagan</a> from serious BLP violations) might be construed as breaking that promise, especially because a number of people have misremembered my recusal as broader than it was. As Trump has become an increasingly significant subject of discussion on-wiki, the restriction has increasingly felt like a limitation on doing my role effectively as a user-conduct admin. I think that over the past 3 years, I've shown I am able to judge where I can and cannot admin neutrally, including by successfully adminning in some parts of the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:GENSEX" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:GENSEX">GENSEX</a> and <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:AMPOL" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:AMPOL">AMPOL</a> topic areas while recusing from those parts where I have expressed opinions publicly. I am aware that the lifting of this restriction would not exempt me from <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:INVOLVED" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:INVOLVED">WP:INVOLVED</a>, and, to borrow a phrase I recently saw in someone else's TBAN appeal and liked, I welcome that scrutiny. -- <a href="/wiki/User:Tamzin" title="User:Tamzin">Tamzin</a>[<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Tamzin" title="User talk:Tamzin">cetacean needed</a>] (<a href="/wiki/User:Tamzin/%F0%9F%A4%B7" class="mw-redirect" title="User:Tamzin/🤷">they|xe|🤷</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Tamzin-20250225013600-Tamzin:_Appeal_of_voluntary_adminning_restriction" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:36, 25 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Support appeal All of us, particularly those who live in the US, have an opinion on Donald Trump, and many of those opinions are strongly-held. It is not whether you have a position, but rather whether you let your position taint your objectivity in dealing with issues. By being clear about your position, you are one of the few administrators whose actions can be readily scrutinized by those looking for bias. In short, go ahead, and, as all of us must be, be careful. — <a href="/wiki/User:Rsjaffe" title="User:Rsjaffe">rsjaffe</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Rsjaffe" title="User talk:Rsjaffe">🗣️</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Rsjaffe-20250225014200-Tamzin-20250225013600" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:42, 25 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd> <dd>Support appeal – I recall no incidents where Tamzin has used admin powers in a manner that'd give me pause here. <a href="/wiki/User:Remsense" title="User:Remsense">Remsense</a> ‥ <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Remsense" title="User talk:Remsense">论</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Remsense-20250225020500-Tamzin-20250225013600" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:05, 25 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd> <dd>Support appeal - I don't recall any administrative misbehavior. <a href="/wiki/User:GoodDay" title="User:GoodDay">GoodDay</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:GoodDay" title="User talk:GoodDay">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-GoodDay-20250225021100-Tamzin-20250225013600" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:11, 25 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd> <dd>The <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:GAB" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:GAB">standard advice for Wikipedia editors appealing a t-ban</a> is to explain why they received the t-ban and why that reason is no longer applicable. I don't see that explanation. From my perspective, it was because you said supporters of Donald Trump was incompatible with a position of trust in the community, and many editors felt like you would judge Trump supporters differently when performing administrative actions. Instead, you're saying it was a tactical move as "Donald Trump was a former president at perhaps his 10-year nadir in relevance" as you didn't think he'd remain relevant, but you point to your editing history as a whole as proof you wouldn't be biased.</dd> <dd>I would like further detail on how you'll handle certain situations brought up in the context of your self-imposed editing restriction before !voting support. As an example, Question 27 at your RfA brought up <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:PERM" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:PERM">WP:PERM</a> in that you might deny someone permissions for being a Trump supporter. Your answer is unclear now, because you said you wouldn't deny permissions to pro-Trump users (which was encompassed in your self-imposed t-ban), but there is still room for character judgements based on on-wiki conduct.</dd> <dd>So, if this t-ban was revoked, would someone's support of Trump factor into whether you'd grant or deny that person permissions at <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:PERM" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:PERM">WP:PERM</a>? <a href="/wiki/User:Chess" title="User:Chess">Chess</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Chess" title="User talk:Chess">talk</a>) (please <a href="/wiki/Help:Talk_pages#Notifications" title="Help:Talk pages">mention</a> me on reply) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Chess-20250225040500-Tamzin-20250225013600" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">04:05, 25 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Not wrong for @<a href="/wiki/User:Chess" title="User:Chess">Chess</a>: to ask—though fwiw I think it's fairly clear their answer would be "no" to this question given that would be required by site policy, so I feel the heuristic reason for support is sufficient. Given they are an admin, it's expected that they know policy. <a href="/wiki/User:Remsense" title="User:Remsense">Remsense</a> ‥ <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Remsense" title="User talk:Remsense">论</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Remsense-20250225040700-Chess-20250225040500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">04:07, 25 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd> <dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:Chess" title="User:Chess">Chess</a>: I didn't say it was a tactical move. My point is it was a less impactful restriction in 2022 than it is in 2025. As to why I received (or, in this case, self-imposed) the restriction, my stated reason was <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1248585704" /><q class="inline-quote-talk inline-quote-talk-marks">to avoid any appearance of impropriety</q> regarding <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1248585704" /><q class="inline-quote-talk inline-quote-talk-marks">topics within American politics that I've expressed opinions about on-wiki, which as far as I can recall is a class of one: my opposition to Mr. Trump</q>. I believe that that reason is no longer applicable because my record as an administrator makes clear that, as I wrote in the same answer, <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1248585704" /><q class="inline-quote-talk inline-quote-talk-marks">when it comes to administrative matters I pick no favorites</q>, and thus there is no reasonable appearance of impropriety, any more than for the average left-of-center admin. I have blocked liberals and conservatives, leftists and nationalists, some over things I strongly disagreed with, some over things I strongly agreed with. I've <a href="/wiki/Special:Redirect/logid/149378086" title="Special:Redirect/logid/149378086">unblocked</a> a sitting Republican member of Congress. I can't recall any user in good standing ever complaining that I was politically biased in my admin decisions. I've had people I blocked call me a biased communist because they were conservatives, and I've also had people I blocked call me a biased fascist because they were liberals. The largest politics-related drama I've gotten into since RfA was because I was opposed to how openly some Wikipedians were celebrating the death of Henry Kissinger. I can honestly tell you that, in all this time, the question of whether a given admin action would be good or bad for Donald Trump has never crossed my mind. I care about this site and enforcing its policies and values. And I think my record shows that.<div class="paragraphbreak" style="margin-top:0.5em"></div>As to Q27, I think you must have misread my answer: <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1248585704" /><q class="inline-quote-talk inline-quote-talk-marks">'Are you going to go around denying permission requests from people with pro-Trump userboxen?': ... No. ... Granting or declining a permission request at PERM is an administrative action, not an expression of personal preference, and there is no leeway in it for character judgments, other than character judgments based on someone's on-wiki conduct.</q> But if that answer was unclear, then I'll be more explicit: No. I would not deny a request at PERM because the user is a Trump supporter, and I've never said that I would. That is anathema to my view on the role of an administrator. -- <a href="/wiki/User:Tamzin" title="User:Tamzin">Tamzin</a>[<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Tamzin" title="User talk:Tamzin">cetacean needed</a>] (<a href="/wiki/User:Tamzin/%F0%9F%A4%B7" class="mw-redirect" title="User:Tamzin/🤷">they|xe|🤷</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Tamzin-20250225050200-Chess-20250225040500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">05:02, 25 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd></dl> Support appeal. I was #14 among the opposes during Tamzin's RfA and several other editors mentioned my oppose when they later opposed. I still believe that Tamzin made a mistake in how they openly expressed their opposition to any Trump voter ever becoming an administrator. I otherwise considered Tamzin highly qualified, and the RfA succeeded with very heavy turnout and 75% support. At that point, I considered the matter over and done with, and still feel that way. Since then, Tamzin has been an excellent and thoughtful and even-handed administrator. With Trump back in the White House and engaging in highly controversial actions every day, and inexperienced new editors joining the fray, we need administrators of all political perspectives to keep an eye on every aspect of the Trump era. I trust Tamzin to do the right thing. <a href="/wiki/User:Cullen328" title="User:Cullen328">Cullen328</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Cullen328" title="User talk:Cullen328">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Cullen328-20250225052500-Tamzin:_Appeal_of_voluntary_adminning_restriction" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">05:25, 25 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] Support appeal. I trust Tamzin to approach the whatever situation in a generally reasonable manner. <a href="/wiki/User:Gr%C3%A5bergs_Gr%C3%A5a_S%C3%A5ng" title="User:Gråbergs Gråa Sång">Gråbergs Gråa Sång</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Gr%C3%A5bergs_Gr%C3%A5a_S%C3%A5ng" title="User talk:Gråbergs Gråa Sång">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Gråbergs_Gråa_Sång-20250225095500-Tamzin:_Appeal_of_voluntary_adminning_restriction" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">09:55, 25 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <ul><li>Support and it's very commendable that you've gone about it this way rather than just, as I think most people would do, quietly dropping your RfA commitment. – <a href="/wiki/User:Joe_Roe" title="User:Joe Roe">Joe</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Joe_Roe" title="User talk:Joe Roe">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Joe_Roe-20250225103500-Gråbergs_Gråa_Sång-20250225095500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">10:35, 25 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li> <li>Support Based on the Trump comments I was also concerned about Tamzin becoming an admin. However, since they RfA I've been impressed that their actions seem very well considered even in cases where I suspect their personal feeling and their admin... er wikilaw... actions don't align. I've also seen cases where they have tried to understand and reach out to editors who were acting less than ideally but likely out of frustration rather than because they were an overall problematic editor. The ability to gently pull an editor, who's opinions/views they likely don't share, back from the tban or worse edge vs simply letting them cross then acting is something I've admired in Tamzin and wished more admins would adopt. I have seen other admins do this but I feel it's the exception rather than the rule. Given that Trump won the last US election I think it would be hard to have to strictly abstain from any case involving Trump for the next couple of years. If nothing else, this does seem like a practical concern. <a href="/wiki/User:Springee" title="User:Springee">Springee</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Springee" title="User talk:Springee">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Springee-20250225123700-Gråbergs_Gråa_Sång-20250225095500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">12:37, 25 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li> <li>Support The world is very different in 2025. I have absolutely no concerns that Tamzin will act abusively if we lift this restriction. Given Tamzin's history, I think it's more likely they'd take a break or voluntarily reimpose a restriction if they felt necessary. --<a href="/wiki/User:Yamla" title="User:Yamla">Yamla</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Yamla" title="User talk:Yamla">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Yamla-20250225125500-Gråbergs_Gråa_Sång-20250225095500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">12:55, 25 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li> <li>Principled Support to a principled request, as Tamzin was not topic banned but gave themself a self-ban. Very nice use of this discussion page. I also support in principle with the hope and belief that Tamzin will give extra thought to their actions on the Trump pages in order to lay aside both their and other's personal feelings about the overall topic-range. Thanks. <a href="/wiki/User:Randy_Kryn" title="User:Randy Kryn">Randy Kryn</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Randy_Kryn" title="User talk:Randy Kryn">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Randy_Kryn-20250225130200-Gråbergs_Gråa_Sång-20250225095500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">13:02, 25 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li> <li>Suppport: I trust your judgement, and you've given us all good reason to. Based on our discussions and what I've seen from you I trust that you're able to recognize when you're unable to be entirely unbiased and recuse yourself if necessary. <a href="/wiki/User:Hey_man_im_josh" title="User:Hey man im josh">Hey man im josh</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Hey_man_im_josh" title="User talk:Hey man im josh">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Hey_man_im_josh-20250225144300-Gråbergs_Gråa_Sång-20250225095500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">14:43, 25 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li> <li>Support, no concerns here. --<a href="/wiki/User_talk:SarekOfVulcan" title="User talk:SarekOfVulcan">SarekOfVulcan (talk)</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-SarekOfVulcan-20250225150300-Gråbergs_Gråa_Sång-20250225095500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:03, 25 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li> <li>Support, the desire to tread cautiously and be open to feedback are welcome attributes, and are evidenced by the making of this request. <a href="/wiki/User:Chipmunkdavis" title="User:Chipmunkdavis">CMD</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Chipmunkdavis" title="User talk:Chipmunkdavis">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Chipmunkdavis-20250225153700-Gråbergs_Gråa_Sång-20250225095500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:37, 25 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li> <li>Support. I did not believe this would be a problem then, and I still do not believe it to be one now. -- <a href="/wiki/User:Asilvering" title="User:Asilvering">asilvering</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Asilvering" title="User talk:Asilvering">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Asilvering-20250225154300-Gråbergs_Gråa_Sång-20250225095500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:43, 25 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li> <li>Support on the principle that administrators should be individuals who can be trusted to act neutrally in cases where there may be disagreements on political views and similar (I do believe the line should be firmly drawn at <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:NONAZIS" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:NONAZIS">WP:NONAZIS</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:NORACISTS" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:NORACISTS">WP:NORACISTS</a> and people whose views are in contradiction of <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:CHILDPROTECT" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:CHILDPROTECT">WP:CHILDPROTECT</a>, of course!). Tamzin has proven they can do this in other respects and therefore I have no concerns. <a href="/wiki/User:Patient_Zero" title="User:Patient Zero">Patient Zero</a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Patient_Zero" title="User talk:Patient Zero">talk</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Patient_Zero-20250226010500-Gråbergs_Gråa_Sång-20250225095500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:05, 26 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li></ul> <div style="padding-left: 1.6em; font-style: italic; border-top: 1px solid #a2a9b1; margin: 0.5em 0; padding-top: 0.5em">The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.</div> </div><div style="clear:both;" class=""></div> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="RfC_closure_review_request_at_Talk:Kash_Patel#RfC:_Whether_to_call_Kash_Patel_a_conspiracy_theorist_in_the_first_sentence" data-mw-thread-id="h-RfC_closure_review_request_at_Talk:Kash_Patel#RfC:_Whether_to_call_Kash_Patel_a-20250225024300">RfC closure review request at <a href="/wiki/Talk:Kash_Patel#RfC:_Whether_to_call_Kash_Patel_a_conspiracy_theorist_in_the_first_sentence" title="Talk:Kash Patel">Talk:Kash_Patel#RfC: Whether to call Kash Patel a conspiracy theorist in the first sentence</a></h2>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard&action=edit&section=41" title="Edit section: RfC closure review request at Talk:Kash_Patel#RfC: Whether to call Kash Patel a conspiracy theorist in the first sentence">edit</a>]<div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <dl><dd>(<a href="/wiki/Talk:Kash_Patel#RfC:_Whether_to_call_Kash_Patel_a_conspiracy_theorist_in_the_first_sentence" title="Talk:Kash Patel">RfC closure in question</a>) (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Szmenderowiecki#Please_unclose_RFC_on_Kash_Patel" title="User talk:Szmenderowiecki">Discussion with closer</a>)</dd></dl> Closer: <a href="/wiki/User:Szmenderowiecki" title="User:Szmenderowiecki">Szmenderowiecki</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Szmenderowiecki" title="User talk:Szmenderowiecki">talk</a> · <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Szmenderowiecki" title="Special:Contributions/Szmenderowiecki">contribs</a> · <a href="/wiki/Special:DeletedContributions/Szmenderowiecki" title="Special:DeletedContributions/Szmenderowiecki">deleted contribs</a> · <a href="/wiki/Special:Log/Szmenderowiecki" title="Special:Log/Szmenderowiecki">logs</a> · <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3AAbuseLog&wpSearchUser=Szmenderowiecki">filter log</a> · <a href="/wiki/Special:Block/Szmenderowiecki" title="Special:Block/Szmenderowiecki">block user</a> · <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3ALog%2Fblock&page=User%3ASzmenderowiecki">block log</a>) User requesting review: <a href="/wiki/User:Bluethricecreamman" title="User:Bluethricecreamman">Bluethricecreamman</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Bluethricecreamman" title="User talk:Bluethricecreamman">talk</a> · <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Bluethricecreamman" title="Special:Contributions/Bluethricecreamman">contribs</a> · <a href="/wiki/Special:DeletedContributions/Bluethricecreamman" title="Special:DeletedContributions/Bluethricecreamman">deleted contribs</a> · <a href="/wiki/Special:Log/Bluethricecreamman" title="Special:Log/Bluethricecreamman">logs</a> · <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3AAbuseLog&wpSearchUser=Bluethricecreamman">filter log</a> · <a href="/wiki/Special:Block/Bluethricecreamman" title="Special:Block/Bluethricecreamman">block user</a> · <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3ALog%2Fblock&page=User%3ABluethricecreamman">block log</a>). Posted at <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Bluethricecreamman-20250225024300-RfC_closure_review_request_at_Talk:Kash_Patel#RfC:_Whether_to_call_Kash_Patel_a" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:43, 25 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] Notified: <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Szmenderowiecki#Notice_of_noticeboard_discussion" title="User talk:Szmenderowiecki">User_talk:Szmenderowiecki#Notice_of_noticeboard_discussion</a> Reasoning: The RFC was closed a week early despite votes still coming in, as acknowledged in the close discussion. I'm counting by rough math at least 5 to 1 for oppose vs. support, but saw that it closed with no consensus. Would like to confirm math behind discarding the votes like that. <div class="mw-heading mw-heading3"><h3 id="Closer_(Kash_Patel_RfC)" data-mw-thread-id="h-Closer_(Kash_Patel_RfC)-RfC_closure_review_request_at_Talk:Kash_Patel#RfC:_Whether_to_call_Kash_Patel_a-20250225042800">Closer (Kash Patel RfC)</h3>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard&action=edit&section=42" title="Edit section: Closer (Kash Patel RfC)">edit</a>]</div> <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1248585704" /><q class="inline-quote-talk">I'm not even reading the justification for the close, editors simply shouldn't close contentious RfC's early</q> -> who gets to decide what is "too soon?" There is an <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WHENCLOSE" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:WHENCLOSE">informal rule of thumb</a> saying you generally shouldn't do that before 7 days have passed, but here we have 19 days. There is nothing wrong with letting discussions go even for two months, but this is really becoming a big timesink, the returns are diminishing and I think that we should just move on. The result is very unlikely to have changed within that week or so. If there is any problem with the merits, I'm ready to address it. <a href="/wiki/User:Szmenderowiecki" title="User:Szmenderowiecki">Szmenderowiecki</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Szmenderowiecki" title="User talk:Szmenderowiecki">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Szmenderowiecki-20250225042800-Closer_(Kash_Patel_RfC)" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">04:28, 25 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd><a href="/wiki/User:Springee" title="User:Springee">Springee</a> It doesn't say that. <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:RFC" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:RFC">The page about requests for comment</a> says this:</dd> <dd><link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1248585704" /><q class="inline-quote-talk">An RfC should last until enough comment has been received that consensus is reached, or until it is apparent that it won't be. There is no required minimum or maximum duration; however, Legobot assumes an RfC has been forgotten and automatically ends it (removes the {{rfc}} tag) 30 days after it begins, to avoid a buildup of stale discussions cluttering the lists and wasting commenters' time.</q></dd> <dd>Emphasis mine.</dd> <dd>There definitely is more than enough comment at this stage to make a proper determination. 30 days is an arbitrary threshold that Legobot uses to sort discussions which should be stale/mature from all other discussions. It doesn't mean that a 30-day old discussion is stale or mature, or that a discussion younger than 30 days is not ripe for closure. RfCs can last for 10 days or 60 days, but what matters is the amount of comment. My determination is that running it further is going to be a waste of editors' resources that could have been more productively spent on editing or creating articles. And anyway, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:BUREAUCRACY" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:BUREAUCRACY">we don't have to stick rigidly to most rules</a>; with the exception of some basic non-negotiable principles.</dd> <dd>I invite any parties that believe that there are some arguments that haven't been mentioned yet but should be to reach out to me or here. I said just that in the closure. <a href="/wiki/User:Szmenderowiecki" title="User:Szmenderowiecki">Szmenderowiecki</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Szmenderowiecki" title="User talk:Szmenderowiecki">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Szmenderowiecki-20250225053300-Szmenderowiecki-20250225042800" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">05:33, 25 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl> <a href="/wiki/User:Dw31415" title="User:Dw31415">Dw31415</a>, the "KO" comment was just an analogy. It was not meant to make you fight and stand your ground till the bitter end (in fact, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:BATTLEGROUND" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:BATTLEGROUND">you shouldn't</a> - if you feel that "my cause lost and I shall make sure it is victorious at the end of the day", you <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:STICK" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:STICK">should seriously reconsider</a> if editing Wikipedia is appropriate for you). What I only meant is to clarify that consensus means "fairly obvious the proposal is rejected/confirmed", and that's not how I saw the discussion unrolling, after making corrections for apparent efforts to manipulate the decision-building process - just like it's normally obvious that a person who delivered a knock-out won, but when the boxers stay for full 12 rounds, it is often not that clear who won. Also, as stated in the closure and as I clarified on my talk page, in articles about living people, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:BLPRESTORE" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:BLPRESTORE">only content for which there is consensus</a> can stay, and anything short of that mandates removal. The only practical difference is that relitigating the issue without substantial new information may be considered more disruptive/more often considered disruptive if there was consensus against the proposal - complaining about time sinks, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:ICANTHEARYOU" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:ICANTHEARYOU">WP:ICANTHEARYOU</a> and all that. However, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:CCC" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:CCC">consensus can change</a>, so even a "consensus against" outcome, which is not applicable here, does not prohibit you from trying to advance new arguments that may reasonably change other people's minds. <a href="/wiki/User:Szmenderowiecki" title="User:Szmenderowiecki">Szmenderowiecki</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Szmenderowiecki" title="User talk:Szmenderowiecki">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Szmenderowiecki-20250302113000-Closer_(Kash_Patel_RfC)" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">11:30, 2 March 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Good day, @<a href="/wiki/User:Szmenderowiecki" title="User:Szmenderowiecki">Szmenderowiecki</a>, I'm replying to clarify my position, not to request a reply or action on your part. In the RfC, I oppose the inclusion of "conspiracy theorist", so I'm not seeking to overturn the result. I understood your KO analogy (and even enjoyed the quality of the writing), but I don't think it's helpful since the closing text can lean on <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Consensus" title="Wikipedia:Consensus">Wikipedia:Consensus</a> and <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:BLPRESTORE" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:BLPRESTORE">Wikipedia:BLPRESTORE</a> without a bloody analogy. If it were just the two of us, I'd offer a specific edit to improve the closure statement and leave it to you to decide. I think the key questions for an admin to review are (and why more than a single "horse" is on the track): <ol><li>Whether and how to address that "conspiracy theorist" remained in the opening during the RfC, but BLP Restore indicates that it shouldn't. Maybe a process note could be added to the closure. Assuming there was an edit war about it, what venue was appropriate to resolve that while the RfC carried on?</li> <li>Whether the degree of bludgeoning in the discussion (or other factors) warrant reopening to avoid the appearance of a rush to judgement.</li> <li>Whether skipping the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Closure_requests" title="Wikipedia:Closure requests">Wikipedia:Closure requests</a> step is permissible or wise. (I think it was skipped, but please correct me if I'm wrong).</li></ol></dd> <dd>I share the sentiment that you clearly did a lot of good work in writing the closing and I appreciate it. <a href="/wiki/User:Dw31415" title="User:Dw31415">Dw31415</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Dw31415#top" title="User talk:Dw31415">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Dw31415-20250302135900-Szmenderowiecki-20250302113000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">13:59, 2 March 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading3"><h3 id="Non-participants_(Kash_Patel_RfC)" data-mw-thread-id="h-Non-participants_(Kash_Patel_RfC)-RfC_closure_review_request_at_Talk:Kash_Patel#RfC:_Whether_to_call_Kash_Patel_a-20250225024600">Non-participants (Kash Patel RfC)</h3>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard&action=edit&section=43" title="Edit section: Non-participants (Kash Patel RfC)">edit</a>]</div> Reopen - Again, RFC should be open for a full month. In other words, one more week. <a href="/wiki/User:GoodDay" title="User:GoodDay">GoodDay</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:GoodDay" title="User talk:GoodDay">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-GoodDay-20250225024600-Non-participants_(Kash_Patel_RfC)" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:46, 25 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] Reopen I'm not even reading the justification for the close, editors simply shouldn't close contentious RfC's early. Looking at the list of replies this clearly isn't a SNOW case and given the dispute this is a contentious topic. Closing the RfC early is something that should not be done absent a SNOW case, even if the final close is identical to the close in question. In the event of a SNOW closing, if someone protests the SNOW closing, it's not a SNOW closing. There is no harm in letting the process (and timer) play out. Note my comments here do not otherwise reflect on the quality of the close, only the premature closure. <a href="/wiki/User:Springee" title="User:Springee">Springee</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Springee" title="User talk:Springee">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Springee-20250225031800-Non-participants_(Kash_Patel_RfC)" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">03:18, 25 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Szmenderowiecki, in response to your question, the standard RfC period is 1 month. I see no benefit to closing early and certainly drawbacks such as editors being unhappy about the early close. If the RfC is closed early participants may feel "their side" didn't get the chance for all their views to be presented. Net result is discontent. Early closes can also look like a type of gaming the system because, at least sometimes, they are. I don't mean you had any ill intent. However, delaying until the RfC has run avoids event the appearance that a RfC might have been closed early for strategic reasons which would again result is discontent. <a href="/wiki/User:Springee" title="User:Springee">Springee</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Springee" title="User talk:Springee">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Springee-20250225051500-Springee-20250225031800" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">05:15, 25 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Additionally, there was an initial closure by the opener of the RfC, plainly against policy! So many reasons to let this one run its course, in my opinion. <a href="/wiki/User:Carlp941" title="User:Carlp941">Carlp941</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Carlp941" title="User talk:Carlp941">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Carlp941-20250227235400-Springee-20250225051500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:54, 27 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Is 30 days an unwritten norm? I’m new to this. <a href="/wiki/User:Dw31415" title="User:Dw31415">Dw31415</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Dw31415" title="User talk:Dw31415">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Dw31415-20250228001600-Carlp941-20250227235400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:16, 28 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>not strictly a rule, but from <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:RFCEND" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:RFCEND">WP:RFCEND</a></dd> <dd>An RfC should last until enough comment has been received that consensus is reached, or until it is apparent that it won't be. There is no required minimum or maximum duration; however, Legobot assumes an RfC has been forgotten and automatically ends it (removes the {{rfc}} tag) 30 days after it begins, to avoid a buildup of stale discussions cluttering the lists and wasting commenters' time.</dd> <dd>IMO, if those involved with the discussion still have plenty to say and believe a consensus can be reached, 30 days is appropriate. <a href="/wiki/User:Carlp941" title="User:Carlp941">Carlp941</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Carlp941" title="User talk:Carlp941">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Carlp941-20250228005900-Dw31415-20250228001600" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:59, 28 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>I'd be right there with you if there was evidence that <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1248585704" /><q class="inline-quote-talk">those involved with the discussion still have plenty to say</q>, but I just double checked @<a href="/wiki/User:Szmenderowiecki" title="User:Szmenderowiecki">Szmenderowiecki</a>'s talk page and I don't see any Support editors claiming their arguments were not accounted for. My read of the Support opinions is that they were willing to accept treatment short of conspiracy theorist in the first sentence. The objection to closure seems to be a process related objection. I expect that the closer would be open to adjusting their closure statement upon request. There is a lot to find fault with in this RfC and I hope the community can learn from this one. The narrow question of this RfC and a finding of "no consensus" means there's plenty of room for further discussion in a new, broader topic or RfC. Also, I hope that a fresh discussion, in the absence of a good faith BLP/NPOV challenge of the current content (and absence of IP quipping) might yield more productive results. Thank you so much for listening to my thoughts on the matter. <a href="/wiki/User:Dw31415" title="User:Dw31415">Dw31415</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Dw31415" title="User talk:Dw31415">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Dw31415-20250228034900-Carlp941-20250228005900" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">03:49, 28 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> Comment: Perhaps either the Duration section or the Reasons and ways to end RfCs section at <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:RFC" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:RFC">WP:RFC</a> needs a slight rewrite then. As it is written, it seems to me that it is acceptable to close an RfC early when it is guaranteed that there will not be a consensus by the reading of WP:RFC. When what is written is out of alignment with practice, it is likely best to attempt to have the written portion be re-aligned. --<a href="/wiki/User:Super_Goku_V" title="User:Super Goku V">Super Goku V</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Super_Goku_V" title="User talk:Super Goku V">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Super_Goku_V-20250225104000-Non-participants_(Kash_Patel_RfC)" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">10:40, 25 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>I agree with this take. It does not seem to me like <a href="/wiki/User:Szmenderowiecki" title="User:Szmenderowiecki">Szmenderowiecki</a>'s closure runs afoul of the "norms" as currently written on that page. And, if <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1248585704" /><q class="inline-quote-talk">the standard RfC period is 1 month</q>, and anything else, especially a shorter duration in a contentious discussion, is viewed as a generally unacceptable duration, then that needs to be made clear to editors. <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:NewBorders&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:NewBorders (page does not exist)">NewBorders</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:NewBorders" title="User talk:NewBorders">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-NewBorders-20250225125600-Super_Goku_V-20250225104000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">12:56, 25 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd> <dd>Comment: I agree that further revision of the RfC page would be helpful and I’m happy to participate in that after this RfC is resolved. Specific questions (for later consideration): <ol><li>Can an “uninvolved editor” of any experience or role judge that the discussion has run it’s course?</li> <li>Can a single editor determine the consensus of 50 other editors?</li> <li>Does the content in question remain frozen during the RfC period?</li> <li>Is it helpful to the community to have an RfC narrowly defined to two words in a single sentence?</li> <li>Do issues with NPOV have a different consensus threshold (aka a Knockout threshold as used in this closure)?</li></ol></dd> <dd>Note: I previously requested closure within the RfC discussion, but hope this is the right spot for my comment. I look forward to the admin’s decision and really appreciate your work. <a href="/wiki/User:Dw31415" title="User:Dw31415">Dw31415</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Dw31415" title="User talk:Dw31415">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Dw31415-20250225182900-Super_Goku_V-20250225104000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:29, 25 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading3"><h3 id="Participants_(Kash_Patel_RfC)" data-mw-thread-id="h-Participants_(Kash_Patel_RfC)-RfC_closure_review_request_at_Talk:Kash_Patel#RfC:_Whether_to_call_Kash_Patel_a-20250225130300">Participants (Kash Patel RfC)</h3>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard&action=edit&section=44" title="Edit section: Participants (Kash Patel RfC)">edit</a>]</div> <ul><li><s>Endorse Closure I wish the RfC demonstrated a clear consensus to include this information in the first sentence of the lede - but there was no consensus coming out of that discussion and another week isn't likely to change that. I don't see any reason to keep the RfC going for another week when the end result - a maintenance of article status quo - will be the result.</s> <a href="/wiki/User:Simonm223" title="User:Simonm223">Simonm223</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Simonm223" title="User talk:Simonm223">talk</a>) 13:03, 25 February 2025 (UTC) I've been taking in some of the arguments from the people advocating to re-open the RfC. I had assumed a status-quo would be effectively the same as an oppose consensus - with the language being in the third para of the lede rather than the first. While I'd supported first para in the RfC I didn't see it as being particularly high-stakes and so didn't want to be seen as trying to fight past a consensus against movement. If, however, status quo is to restore the language to the first para then, considering the numerical balance, it is more important that a closer be very careful to assess the weight of arguments accordingly. A !vote is not a numbers game but those arguments that were made should be shown to have been seen. As such I'm changing my !vote here to reopen not on the basis of the time the RfC was open for (which I think is a non-issue) so much as on the basis of the lack of sufficient adjudication of arguments in the closure notice. <a href="/wiki/User:Simonm223" title="User:Simonm223">Simonm223</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Simonm223" title="User talk:Simonm223">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Simonm223-20250225130300-Participants_(Kash_Patel_RfC)" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">13:03, 26 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Tank you for these comments and clear rationale. Your comments get to the heart of the ambiguity. What should the state of the first sentence be during the RfC and what does a result of “no consensus” mean for the sentence? ScottishFinnishRadish says that BLPRESTORE applies. I think @<a href="/wiki/User:Bluethricecreamman" title="User:Bluethricecreamman">Bluethricecreamman</a>‘s criticism of the closing has some merits. I’d prefer that the closing statement lean more heavily on BLPRESTORE than establishing a new “KO” threshold. @<a href="/wiki/User:Szmenderowiecki" title="User:Szmenderowiecki">Szmenderowiecki</a>, are you open to modifying the closure statement? <a href="/wiki/User:Dw31415" title="User:Dw31415">Dw31415</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Dw31415" title="User talk:Dw31415">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Dw31415-20250228154300-Simonm223-20250225130300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:43, 28 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></li></ul> <ul><li>Endorse Closure per the closure's reasoning, where their argument quotes from the RfC information article, which says: <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1248585704" /><q class="inline-quote-talk">An RfC should last until enough comment has been received that consensus is reached, or until it is apparent that it won't be.</q></li></ul> <dl><dd>At this point, with everyone in the RfC repeating the same arguments and nobody changing their mind, it's clear that 1) we have reached a consensus and 2) keeping the discussion open will only be a timesink for everyone and not benefit the discussion in any way. <a href="/wiki/User:Wikieditor662" title="User:Wikieditor662">Wikieditor662</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Wikieditor662" title="User talk:Wikieditor662">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Wikieditor662-20250225185000-Participants_(Kash_Patel_RfC)" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:50, 25 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>I understand that thinking but what if more editors join? If say 20 more editors join all on one side of the debate vs the other does that change things. I do get that such a question could be asked the day after a 1 month close. I have seen cases where a later argument was put forth and editor after that point were clearly swayed. I'm such cases it's useful to let things play out. <a href="/wiki/User:Springee" title="User:Springee">Springee</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Springee" title="User talk:Springee">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Springee-20250225192400-Wikieditor662-20250225185000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:24, 25 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>The close was no consensus, despite there being at least 5x as many opposes as supports. even assuming that as it currently stands, 4/5ths of the oppose votes had to be discarded, and none of the supports, the continuing trickling in of oppose votes could easily have changed no-consensus. <a href="/wiki/User:Bluethricecreamman" title="User:Bluethricecreamman">User:Bluethricecreamman</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Bluethricecreamman" title="User talk:Bluethricecreamman">Talk</a>·<a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Bluethricecreamman" title="Special:Contributions/Bluethricecreamman">Contribs</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Bluethricecreamman-20250225193300-Springee-20250225192400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:33, 25 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>That would be the same outcome though. My understanding was that the status quo was that the text was in the third para rather than the first. A no consensus close enforces the status quo which is the same result as a successful oppose !vote. As such, even if 100% of oppose !votes were considered the end result would have been the same. <a href="/wiki/User:Simonm223" title="User:Simonm223">Simonm223</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Simonm223" title="User talk:Simonm223">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Simonm223-20250225195700-Bluethricecreamman-20250225193300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:57, 25 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>not quite. <ul><li>its easier to point to "consensus was oppose" if someone were to try to start an rfc in future. if there was no consensus, bit harder to argue the matter settled.</li> <li>i don't see summarization of some arguments. for example many of the oppose votes agree on inclusion of info about kash patel as a conspiracy theorist somewhere in the lede, just not in first sentence or even first paragraph.</li> <li>the current close is transparently a <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:SUPERVOTE" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:SUPERVOTE">WP:SUPERVOTE</a>.</li></ul> <dl><dd><ul><li>the first 2.5 paragraphs are closers own thoughts.</li> <li>closer summarizes the responses in the next 1.5 paragraphs, but includes significant synthesis and commentary from closer.</li> <li>final paragraph is just asking community to bring more evidence to discussion in future. quite literally wasting more time.</li></ul></dd></dl></dd> <dd><a href="/wiki/User:Bluethricecreamman" title="User:Bluethricecreamman">User:Bluethricecreamman</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Bluethricecreamman" title="User talk:Bluethricecreamman">Talk</a>·<a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Bluethricecreamman" title="Special:Contributions/Bluethricecreamman">Contribs</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Bluethricecreamman-20250225204500-Simonm223-20250225195700" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:45, 25 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd> <dd>My recollection is that “conspiracy theorist” was in the first sentence when the RfC was started. As I recall, @<a href="/wiki/User:Wikieditor662" title="User:Wikieditor662">Wikieditor662</a> started the RfC with the intent to remove it. A previous discussion topic was unable to resolve the question. That discussion dates from Dec 1<a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Kash_Patel#c-82.117.29.169-20241201100300-%22Conspiracy_theorist%22">[127]</a>. In my opinion, there is some harm to Wikipedia’s NPOV if the RfC is reopened and “theorist” is restored to the first sentence while another 8 days pass. <a href="/wiki/User:Dw31415" title="User:Dw31415">Dw31415</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Dw31415" title="User talk:Dw31415">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Dw31415-20250225211900-Simonm223-20250225195700" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:19, 25 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Content that has been subject to a good faith BLP objection cannot be restored without consensus to include it. See <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:BLPRESTORE" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:BLPRESTORE">WP:BLPRESTORE</a>. <a href="/wiki/User:ScottishFinnishRadish" title="User:ScottishFinnishRadish">ScottishFinnishRadish</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:ScottishFinnishRadish" title="User talk:ScottishFinnishRadish">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-ScottishFinnishRadish-20250226135500-Dw31415-20250225211900" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">13:55, 26 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Interesting. In retrospect, it would have made for a calmer discussion if “theorist” were removed at the start of the RfC. Even better if a proponent of “theorist” was the one to open it. Maybe the RfC description could give better guidance on inclusion of contentious content having the burden of consensus. <a href="/wiki/User:Dw31415" title="User:Dw31415">Dw31415</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Dw31415" title="User talk:Dw31415">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Dw31415-20250226150700-ScottishFinnishRadish-20250226135500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:07, 26 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd> <dd>You said: <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1248585704" /><q class="inline-quote-talk">If say 20 more editors join all on one side of the debate vs the other does that change things.</q></dd> <dd>That's theoretically possible, but there's a <a href="/wiki/List_of_idioms_of_improbability#Tasks_that_are_difficult_or_impossible_to_perform" title="List of idioms of improbability">snowball's chance in hell</a> of that happening, and <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:SNOW" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:SNOW">WP:SNOW</a> states <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1248585704" /><q class="inline-quote-talk">If an issue has a <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/snowball%27s_chance_in_hell" class="extiw" title="wiktionary:snowball's chance in hell">snowball's chance in hell</a> of being accepted by a certain process, there's no need to run it through the entire process.</q> <a href="/wiki/User:Wikieditor662" title="User:Wikieditor662">Wikieditor662</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Wikieditor662" title="User talk:Wikieditor662">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Wikieditor662-20250226034300-Springee-20250225192400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">03:43, 26 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <ul><li>Endorse closure, for <a href="/wiki/User:Wikieditor662" title="User:Wikieditor662">Wikieditor662</a>'s very correct reasoning. <a href="/wiki/User:JacktheBrown" title="User:JacktheBrown">JacktheBrown</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:JacktheBrown" title="User talk:JacktheBrown">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-JacktheBrown-20250226222900-Participants_(Kash_Patel_RfC)" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:29, 26 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li></ul> <ul><li>Endorse re-open, but requesting admin clarity on... everything The closure's reasoning falls outside Wikipedia policy. If "Both arguments are strong and valid so I can't declare a KO for either "team"." is true, then wouldn't that support going back to previous consensus? The closure is saying that neither side won a "KO" (a poor framing for any content dispute), but they are taking the side of Oppose. We can't have it both ways. To me that reads like a <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:SUPERVOTE" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:SUPERVOTE">WP:SUPERVOTE</a>. Frankly, this RfC process has been a disaster. I think it was poorly formed to start with, then it was closed by the editor who made it, then it was closed with an unclear, contentious outcome. Unfortunately I think any result will be <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:FOTPT" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:FOTPT">fruit of the poisonous tree.</a> <a href="/wiki/User:Carlp941" title="User:Carlp941">Carlp941</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Carlp941" title="User talk:Carlp941">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Carlp941-20250226233700-Participants_(Kash_Patel_RfC)" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:37, 26 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:Carlp941" title="User:Carlp941">Carlp941</a>: the "previous consensus" didn't exist, since the terms were added without consensus about a month ago, which is why we opened an RfC; therefore, the terms should have been removed anyway. <a href="/wiki/User:JacktheBrown" title="User:JacktheBrown">JacktheBrown</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:JacktheBrown" title="User talk:JacktheBrown">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-JacktheBrown-20250227151700-Carlp941-20250226233700" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:17, 27 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:BLP" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:BLP">WP:BLP</a> is clear that consensus is required to include contentious BLP material. No consensus defaults to removal in BLPs. <a href="/wiki/User:ScottishFinnishRadish" title="User:ScottishFinnishRadish">ScottishFinnishRadish</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:ScottishFinnishRadish" title="User talk:ScottishFinnishRadish">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-ScottishFinnishRadish-20250227152400-JacktheBrown-20250227151700" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:24, 27 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:ScottishFinnishRadish" title="User:ScottishFinnishRadish">ScottishFinnishRadish</a>: exactly what I wrote in my comment, but you've explained it more accurately and concisely. <a href="/wiki/User:JacktheBrown" title="User:JacktheBrown">JacktheBrown</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:JacktheBrown" title="User talk:JacktheBrown">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-JacktheBrown-20250227154100-ScottishFinnishRadish-20250227152400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:41, 27 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>hmmmm. seems reasonable to me. thanks for the clarification. I wish the closure didn't bury that under several paragraphs of text. <a href="/wiki/User:Carlp941" title="User:Carlp941">Carlp941</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Carlp941" title="User talk:Carlp941">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Carlp941-20250227165400-JacktheBrown-20250227154100" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:54, 27 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd> <dd><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:PUBLICFIGURE" title="Wikipedia:PUBLICFIGURE">WP:PUBLICFIGURE</a> applies, and the <a href="/wiki/Kash_Patel#Conspiracy_theories" title="Kash Patel">article includes multiple mentions, with well sourced citations, about Kash Patel promoting various conspiracy theories</a>.</dd> <dd>From my understanding of the RFC, the main issue was <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:DUE" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:DUE">WP:DUEness</a> around where that information belongs in the lede, or if it even belongs in lede. <a href="/wiki/User:Bluethricecreamman" title="User:Bluethricecreamman">User:Bluethricecreamman</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Bluethricecreamman" title="User talk:Bluethricecreamman">Talk</a>·<a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Bluethricecreamman" title="Special:Contributions/Bluethricecreamman">Contribs</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Bluethricecreamman-20250227155300-ScottishFinnishRadish-20250227152400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:53, 27 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd></dl></dd> <dd>I've been informed by @<a href="/wiki/User:JacktheBrown" title="User:JacktheBrown">JacktheBrown</a> of the BLP policy that is underdiscussed in the closure reasoning. In line with BLP, I believe the contentious material should not be restored under any outcome here.</dd> <dd>This RfC was initially prematurely closed in clear violation of policy, and that puts a bad stink on the process. A bunch of unsigned IPs and editors who made accounts just to skew discussion puts more stink on the process, and it makes me think <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:SNOWBALL" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:SNOWBALL">WP:SNOWBALL</a> doesn't apply here. I do think it will lower tensions to let it run a little longer. <a href="/wiki/User:Carlp941" title="User:Carlp941">Carlp941</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Carlp941" title="User talk:Carlp941">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Carlp941-20250227171400-Carlp941-20250226233700" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:14, 27 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></li> <li>Comment: After taking some time to review <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Consensus" title="Wikipedia:Consensus">Wikipedia:Consensus</a> and <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:RfC" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:RfC">Wikipedia:RfC</a>, I initially concluded that this RfC should remain closed and the current state of the introduction should be considered the current consensus. I’ve modified my position. Given (a) the heavy bludgeoning in the initial period of the RfC, especially by IP editors, and (b) the closer’s apparent unwillingness to improve the closure statement based on the discussion here, I could see the benefit in reopening. In any reopening, the admin should note that “conspiracy theorist” should remain absent the first sentence per BLPRESTORE. (My deleted, but now restored with strikethrough follows) <del>Endorse Closure: After taking some time to review Wikipedia:Consensus and Wikipedia:RfC, I conclude that this RfC should remain closed and the current state of the introduction should be considered the current consensus. Editors wanting to treat the subject’s support of conspiracy theories more prominently in the introduction should start fresh with a bold edit and proceed afresh through the consensus building process. The bold edit should not include “conspiracy theorist” in the first sentence because there is clearly not consensus support for it. Rationale: Individual administrators should not be asked to adjudicate fine grained content assessments. The closer followed documented rationale for closing an RfC and the RfC process does not define 30 days as a default period, rather An RfC should last until enough comment has been received that consensus is reached, or until it is apparent that it won't be. There is no required minimum or maximum duration. For editors that object to the summary of the closer and want to establish for the record a different summary, perhaps they could document their assessment of the consensus in a new talk section (such as RfC - Other summaries). Personal note: While I’m a 19 year editor of Wikipedia, this is the first RfC that I’ve participated in. My above proposal reflects how I’d like to see this process work than any longstanding norms than I’ve observed.</del> Edited per request <a href="/wiki/User:Dw31415" title="User:Dw31415">Dw31415</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Dw31415#top" title="User talk:Dw31415">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Dw31415-20250302040800-Participants_(Kash_Patel_RfC)" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">04:08, 2 March 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd><a href="/wiki/User:Dw31415" title="User:Dw31415">Dw31415</a>, please do not delete content from a discussion, instead "strike" your comments that no longer represent your perspective. <a href="/wiki/User:Liz" title="User:Liz">Liz</a> <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Liz" title="Special:Contributions/Liz">Read!</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Liz" title="User talk:Liz">Talk!</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Liz-20250302024200-Dw31415-20250302040800" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:42, 2 March 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Will do. Thanks. <a href="/wiki/User:Dw31415" title="User:Dw31415">Dw31415</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Dw31415#top" title="User talk:Dw31415">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Dw31415-20250302025400-Liz-20250302024200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:54, 2 March 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd></dl></li></ul> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading3"><h3 id="Discussion_(Kash_Patel_RfC)" data-mw-thread-id="h-Discussion_(Kash_Patel_RfC)-RfC_closure_review_request_at_Talk:Kash_Patel#RfC:_Whether_to_call_Kash_Patel_a-20250225024300">Discussion (Kash Patel RfC)</h3>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard&action=edit&section=45" title="Edit section: Discussion (Kash Patel RfC)">edit</a>]</div> would like an admin review at this point. appreciate the work done by original closer, regardless. <a href="/wiki/User:Bluethricecreamman" title="User:Bluethricecreamman">User:Bluethricecreamman</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Bluethricecreamman" title="User talk:Bluethricecreamman">Talk</a>·<a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Bluethricecreamman" title="Special:Contributions/Bluethricecreamman">Contribs</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Bluethricecreamman-20250225024300-Discussion_(Kash_Patel_RfC)" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:43, 25 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>If the review results in a reopen, I request the admin please make clear that “conspiracy theorist” should not be added back to the first sentence during the remaining RfC period (provided that the admin agrees with @<a href="/wiki/User:ScottishFinnishRadish" title="User:ScottishFinnishRadish">ScottishFinnishRadish</a>’s comments here about BLPRESTORE). I say that because some editors involved have already expressed a strong expectation that “conspiracy theorist” remains until after the RfC closes. Thanks! <a href="/wiki/User:Dw31415" title="User:Dw31415">Dw31415</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Dw31415" title="User talk:Dw31415">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Dw31415-20250226212200-Bluethricecreamman-20250225024300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:22, 26 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl> <style data-mw-deduplicate="TemplateStyles:r1256395271">.mw-parser-output .hidden-archive{box-sizing:border-box;border:1px solid #a2a9b1;width:100%;clear:both;text-align:center;padding:1px;margin:0.2em auto 0;font-size:100%}.mw-parser-output .hat-header{padding:0.25em 1em;line-height:1.5em;text-align:center;background-color:#f2dfce;color:inherit}.mw-parser-output .hat-content{border:solid 1px silver;padding:8px;background-color:#fff4f2;color:inherit;text-align:left}@media screen{html.skin-theme-clientpref-night .mw-parser-output .hat-header{background-color:#492b13}html.skin-theme-clientpref-night .mw-parser-output .hat-content{background-color:#391c19}}@media screen and (prefers-color-scheme:dark){html.skin-theme-clientpref-os .mw-parser-output .hat-header{background-color:#492b13}html.skin-theme-clientpref-os .mw-parser-output .hat-content{background-color:#391c19}}</style> <table class="hidden-archive mw-collapsible mw-archivedtalk mw-collapsed"> <tbody><tr> <th class="hat-header">friendly clarification <a href="/wiki/User:Dw31415" title="User:Dw31415">Dw31415</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Dw31415" title="User talk:Dw31415">talk</a>) </th></tr> <tr> <td style="font-style:italic;">The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. </td></tr> <tr> <td class="hat-content"> <dl><dd><dl><dd>Do you mean <a href="/wiki/Conspiracy_theorist" class="mw-redirect" title="Conspiracy theorist">conspiracy theorist</a>, or just <a href="/wiki/Theorist" class="mw-redirect" title="Theorist">theorist</a>? <a href="/wiki/User:Wikieditor662" title="User:Wikieditor662">Wikieditor662</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Wikieditor662" title="User talk:Wikieditor662">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Wikieditor662-20250226214500-Discussion_(Kash_Patel_RfC)" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:45, 26 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Edited above. Thanks. <a href="/wiki/User:Dw31415" title="User:Dw31415">Dw31415</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Dw31415" title="User talk:Dw31415">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Dw31415-20250226215000-Wikieditor662-20250226214500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:50, 26 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> </td></tr></tbody></table> Software question: I'm trying to understand why this edit<a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard&diff=next&oldid=1277520344">[128]</a> to my comment also resulted in the "user requesting review" to change to my name (scroll down to the actual text to see the change). The edit diff doesn't show a change but in the previous and next edit the requestor is Tule-hog. In that one edit it shows me as the requestor. <a href="/wiki/User:Springee" title="User:Springee">Springee</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Springee" title="User talk:Springee">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Springee-20250225033500-Discussion_(Kash_Patel_RfC)" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">03:35, 25 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>It must be a bug with <a href="/wiki/Template:RfC_closure_review" title="Template:RfC closure review">Template:RfC closure review</a>. I thought it worked OK <a href="/wiki/User:Szmenderowiecki" title="User:Szmenderowiecki">Szmenderowiecki</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Szmenderowiecki" title="User talk:Szmenderowiecki">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Szmenderowiecki-20250225033800-Springee-20250225033500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">03:38, 25 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Thanks. It appears to show the last editor as the requestor (you are it until I hit reply). Perhaps the original requestor, <a href="/wiki/User:Bluethricecreamman" title="User:Bluethricecreamman">Bluethricecreamman</a>, is OK with manually inserting their name? <a href="/wiki/User:Springee" title="User:Springee">Springee</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Springee" title="User talk:Springee">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Springee-20250225034100-Szmenderowiecki-20250225033800" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">03:41, 25 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>I will do that manually, since they are the ones who requested review. I'm not sure how to fix it though, as I thought that substing {{<a href="/wiki/Template:REVISIONUSER2" title="Template:REVISIONUSER2">REVISIONUSER2</a>}} should have done the job. <a href="/wiki/User:Szmenderowiecki" title="User:Szmenderowiecki">Szmenderowiecki</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Szmenderowiecki" title="User talk:Szmenderowiecki">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Szmenderowiecki-20250225034500-Springee-20250225034100" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">03:45, 25 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Fixed. <a href="/wiki/User:Voorts" title="User:Voorts">voorts</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Voorts" title="User talk:Voorts">talk</a>/<a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Voorts" title="Special:Contributions/Voorts">contributions</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Voorts-20250225034500-Szmenderowiecki-20250225034500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">03:45, 25 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>As a procedural note, some participants have !voted as non-participants. This is a minor process thing but, in a review largely about process, it would probably be wise for the participants to move their !vote comments to the "participant" section. I'm getting lonely there. <a href="/wiki/User:Simonm223" title="User:Simonm223">Simonm223</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Simonm223" title="User talk:Simonm223">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Simonm223-20250226130600-Voorts-20250225034500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">13:06, 26 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>I noticed the same thing. To my recollection @<a href="/wiki/User:Super_Goku_V" title="User:Super Goku V">User:Super Goku V</a> was a non-participant. My comment builds on theirs so I’d like to keep it were it is (it’s also a comment, not a !vote). <a href="/wiki/User:Dw31415" title="User:Dw31415">Dw31415</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Dw31415" title="User talk:Dw31415">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Dw31415-20250226134500-Simonm223-20250226130600" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">13:45, 26 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Yeah I just meant the !votes. I have a threaded comment up there too. <a href="/wiki/User:Simonm223" title="User:Simonm223">Simonm223</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Simonm223" title="User talk:Simonm223">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Simonm223-20250226135600-Dw31415-20250226134500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">13:56, 26 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd> <dd>That is correct. I came across the RfC when I saw this closure review, though I don't plan on participating if the RfC ends up reopened. --<a href="/wiki/User:Super_Goku_V" title="User:Super Goku V">Super Goku V</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Super_Goku_V" title="User talk:Super Goku V">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Super_Goku_V-20250228050100-Dw31415-20250226134500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">05:01, 28 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd> <dd>What makes someone a participant? Is it someone who voted in the RfC, someone who started the RfC, or only those who closed the RfC and challenged the closure? <a href="/wiki/User:Wikieditor662" title="User:Wikieditor662">Wikieditor662</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Wikieditor662" title="User talk:Wikieditor662">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Wikieditor662-20250226200300-Simonm223-20250226130600" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:03, 26 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Yes if you !voted in the RfC then you're a participant. <a href="/wiki/User:Simonm223" title="User:Simonm223">Simonm223</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Simonm223" title="User talk:Simonm223">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Simonm223-20250226202800-Wikieditor662-20250226200300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:28, 26 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Alright, I moved my vote from the non participant to participant section. Thank you. <a href="/wiki/User:Wikieditor662" title="User:Wikieditor662">Wikieditor662</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Wikieditor662" title="User talk:Wikieditor662">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Wikieditor662-20250226203200-Simonm223-20250226202800" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:32, 26 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Thanks. Now I don't have to feel so lonely. ;) <a href="/wiki/User:Simonm223" title="User:Simonm223">Simonm223</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Simonm223" title="User talk:Simonm223">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Simonm223-20250226203300-Wikieditor662-20250226203200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:33, 26 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Something_fishy" data-mw-thread-id="h-Something_fishy-20250225062200">Something fishy</h2>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard&action=edit&section=46" title="Edit section: Something fishy">edit</a>]<div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1250141580" /><div class="boilerplate archived archive-top mw-archivedtalk" style=""><link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1235681985" /><div class="side-box metadata side-box-right archive-top-result" style="padding: 10px; line-height: inherit;"> <div class="side-box-flex"> <div class="side-box-text" style="padding: 0;"><a href="/wiki/User:Electricmemory" title="User:Electricmemory">Electricmemory</a>, being summoned to a noticeboard can be stressful, especially for a brand new editor. Do not open a complaint on a fellow editor based on suspicions but because there is evidence of misconduct. That means presenting diffs that demonstrate the problem which you haven't done. This summary is already longer than your initial comment. Remember AN/ANI are for chronic, intractable problems, not just wonderings about behavior that "seems off". <a href="/wiki/User:Liz" title="User:Liz">Liz</a> <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Liz" title="Special:Contributions/Liz">Read!</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Liz" title="User talk:Liz">Talk!</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Liz-20250225175300-Something_fishy" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:53, 25 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</div></div> </div> <div class="boilerplate-header" style="margin-left: 1.6em; font-style: italic;"> The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion. </div> <hr /> <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Klaphinnae&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Klaphinnae (page does not exist)">User:Klaphinnae</a>'s edits seem off somehow to me, like it's a bot or something trying to learn Wikipedia. I may be totally wrong, but someone else should take a look... <a href="/wiki/User:Electricmemory" title="User:Electricmemory">Electricmemory</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Electricmemory" title="User talk:Electricmemory">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Electricmemory-20250225062200-Something_fishy" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">06:22, 25 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>No brother i'm not a bot, actually its my first time working on it but im trying my best way to do it! <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Klaphinnae&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Klaphinnae (page does not exist)">Klaphinnae</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Klaphinnae" title="User talk:Klaphinnae">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Klaphinnae-20250225091400-Electricmemory-20250225062200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">09:14, 25 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd> <dd>I don't think they've made enough edits to show a pattern of fishiness. Many people start out with a bit of silliness. <a href="/wiki/User:Phil_Bridger" class="mw-redirect" title="User:Phil Bridger">Phil Bridger</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Phil_Bridger" title="User talk:Phil Bridger">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Phil_Bridger-20250225092300-Electricmemory-20250225062200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">09:23, 25 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Indeed. Some of us don't realize at first that Wikipedia has no sense of humor it is aware. <a href="/wiki/User:Deepfriedokra" title="User:Deepfriedokra">-- Deepfriedokra</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Deepfriedokra" title="User talk:Deepfriedokra">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Deepfriedokra-20250225123000-Phil_Bridger-20250225092300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">12:30, 25 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd></dl> <div style="padding-left: 1.6em; font-style: italic; border-top: 1px solid #a2a9b1; margin: 0.5em 0; padding-top: 0.5em">The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.</div> </div><div style="clear:both;" class=""></div> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Bureaucratic_waste_and_cleanup_of_contentious_topics" data-mw-thread-id="h-Bureaucratic_waste_and_cleanup_of_contentious_topics-20250226042900">Bureaucratic waste and cleanup of contentious topics</h2>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard&action=edit&section=47" title="Edit section: Bureaucratic waste and cleanup of contentious topics">edit</a>]<div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1250141580" /><div class="boilerplate archived archive-top mw-archivedtalk" style=""><link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1235681985" /><div class="side-box metadata side-box-right archive-top-result" style="padding: 10px; line-height: inherit;"> <div class="side-box-flex"> <div class="side-box-text" style="padding: 0;">I don't see any strong support for this editor's suggestion. If you wish to take this further, I'd follow the advice given by Extraordinary Writ and focus on one set of sanctions and bringing a proposal to VP. <a href="/wiki/User:Liz" title="User:Liz">Liz</a> <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Liz" title="Special:Contributions/Liz">Read!</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Liz" title="User talk:Liz">Talk!</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Liz-20250228004100-Bureaucratic_waste_and_cleanup_of_contentious_topics" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:41, 28 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</div></div> </div> <div class="boilerplate-header" style="margin-left: 1.6em; font-style: italic;"> The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion. </div> <hr /> Many contentious topics are hardly ever mentioned about on Wikipedia or in real life and it is a bureaucratic waste to have them as contentious topics. Some have entire logs that administrators who sanction a user have to put a log in which only wastes bureaucracy. Many pages under so called "contentious topics" that if were fully unprotected, would not experience vandalism. That is why I request that these community-authorized sanctions are removed: <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:General_sanctions/Syrian_Civil_War_and_Islamic_State_of_Iraq_and_the_Levant" title="Wikipedia:General sanctions/Syrian Civil War and Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant">GS/SCW&ISIL</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:General_sanctions/Units_in_the_United_Kingdom" title="Wikipedia:General sanctions/Units in the United Kingdom">GS/UKU</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:General_sanctions/Blockchain_and_cryptocurrencies" title="Wikipedia:General sanctions/Blockchain and cryptocurrencies">GS/CRYPTO</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:General_sanctions/Professional_wrestling" title="Wikipedia:General sanctions/Professional wrestling">GS/PW</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:General_sanctions/Beauty_pageants" title="Wikipedia:General sanctions/Beauty pageants">GS/PAGEANT</a>. <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/135.180.61.27" title="Special:Contributions/135.180.61.27">135.180.61.27</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:135.180.61.27" title="User talk:135.180.61.27">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-135.180.61.27-20250226042900-Bureaucratic_waste_and_cleanup_of_contentious_topics" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">04:29, 26 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>There may even be a case for <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:General_sanctions/Michael_Jackson" title="Wikipedia:General sanctions/Michael Jackson">GS/Michael Jackson</a>. <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/135.180.61.27" title="Special:Contributions/135.180.61.27">135.180.61.27</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:135.180.61.27" title="User talk:135.180.61.27">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-135.180.61.27-20250226042900-135.180.61.27-20250226042900" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">04:29, 26 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:VPPR" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:VPPR">WP:VPPR</a> is now the place for making these sorts of proposals (see <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:GS#Community_sanctions" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:GS">WP:GS#Community sanctions</a>). If you do decide to go that route, I would suggest picking one topic and explaining in detail why sanctions are no longer necessary. I would probably be on board with repealing some of these, but the community <a href="/wiki/Special:PermanentLink/952449825#Removal_of_community_general_sanctions_on_Units_in_the_United_Kingdom" title="Special:PermanentLink/952449825">has been pretty hesitant to get rid of even the most sparsely used ones</a>. <a href="/wiki/User:Extraordinary_Writ" title="User:Extraordinary Writ">Extraordinary Writ</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Extraordinary_Writ" title="User talk:Extraordinary Writ">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Extraordinary_Writ-20250226050300-135.180.61.27-20250226042900" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">05:03, 26 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>The case for keeping <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:GS/CRYPTO" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:GS/CRYPTO">WP:GS/CRYPTO</a> is still very strong; crypto/Nasty Fucking Thievery/Web3 spam hasn't gone away. —<a href="/wiki/User:J%C3%A9sk%C3%A9_Couriano" title="User:Jéské Couriano">Jéské Couriano</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:J%C3%A9sk%C3%A9_Couriano" title="User talk:Jéské Couriano">v^_^v</a> <a href="/wiki/User:J%C3%A9sk%C3%A9_Couriano/AG" class="mw-redirect" title="User:Jéské Couriano/AG">threads</a> <a href="/wiki/User:J%C3%A9sk%C3%A9_Couriano/Decode" title="User:Jéské Couriano/Decode">critiques</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Jéské_Couriano-20250226074100-Extraordinary_Writ-20250226050300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">07:41, 26 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Looking at the OP's edit history I have to raise an eyebrow as to the reasoning for their request. - <a href="/wiki/User:The_Bushranger" title="User:The Bushranger">The Bushranger</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:The_Bushranger" title="User talk:The Bushranger">One ping only</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-The_Bushranger-20250226092300-Jéské_Couriano-20250226074100" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">09:23, 26 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>The crypto GS were discussed about ~7 months ago where the community affirmed the need for them <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Archive363#Crypto_General_Sanctions_Review" title="Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Archive363">Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Archive363#Crypto General Sanctions Review</a>. While there weren't that many participants and the proposer probably didn't help the proposal (although this seems the same), it seems to me it was enough to suggest it's not worth discussing now 7 months later since GS isn't the sort of thing where it will be clear enough that it's settled down in such a short period. And crypto in particular seems an area, where if anything it's heated up again with the trend of meme coins combined with rug pulls, and the occasional pump and dump. I do wonder if it might be worth considering something for GS like arbcom's automated expiration of GS in the absence of logged actions over a 2 year period, but perhaps this isn't the thread to start that discussion. <a href="/wiki/User:Nil_Einne" title="User:Nil Einne">Nil Einne</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Nil_Einne" title="User talk:Nil Einne">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Nil_Einne-20250226102600-The_Bushranger-20250226092300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">10:26, 26 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>I'd agree that most general sanctions exist for good reasons and, if the topic areas aren't being disrupted, that generally suggests that GS is doing its job. I would also support that the GS on cryptocurrency is particularly vital. <a href="/wiki/User:Simonm223" title="User:Simonm223">Simonm223</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Simonm223" title="User talk:Simonm223">talk</a>) <a href="/wiki/User:Simonm223" title="User:Simonm223">Simonm223</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Simonm223" title="User talk:Simonm223">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Simonm223-20250226142400-Nil_Einne-20250226102600" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">14:24, 26 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd> <dd>Sadly I would not describe the pageant or pro wrestling sanctions as a 'bureaucratic waste', but needed protection against the worst of the worst (whom I've dealt with and are very unpleasant to reason with); there's very good reason we have them for those topics, and some of them cross right into the fake Internet money sphere without a sweat. <a href="/wiki/User:Nathannah" title="User:Nathannah">Nathannah</a> • <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Nathannah" title="User talk:Nathannah">📮</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Nathannah-20250226223900-135.180.61.27-20250226042900" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:39, 26 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd></dl> <div style="padding-left: 1.6em; font-style: italic; border-top: 1px solid #a2a9b1; margin: 0.5em 0; padding-top: 0.5em">The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.</div> </div><div style="clear:both;" class=""></div> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Competent_(Legal)_issue_over_the_newer_replacement_of_Sikh_Empire_Map" data-mw-thread-id="h-Competent_(Legal)_issue_over_the_newer_replacement_of_Sikh_Empire_Map-20250226045300">Competent (Legal) issue over the newer replacement of <a href="/wiki/Sikh_Empire" title="Sikh Empire">Sikh Empire</a> Map</h2>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard&action=edit&section=48" title="Edit section: Competent (Legal) issue over the newer replacement of Sikh Empire Map">edit</a>]<div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1250141580" /><div class="boilerplate archived archive-top mw-archivedtalk" style=""><link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1235681985" /><div class="side-box metadata side-box-right archive-top-result" style="padding: 10px; line-height: inherit;"> <div class="side-box-flex"> <div class="side-box-text" style="padding: 0;">There doesn't seem to be a good reason for this discussion, such as it is, to be happening at <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:AN" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:AN">WP:AN</a> rather than on the article or file talk page. <a href="/wiki/User:Liz" title="User:Liz">Liz</a> <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Liz" title="Special:Contributions/Liz">Read!</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Liz" title="User talk:Liz">Talk!</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Liz-20250227022100-Competent_(Legal)_issue_over_the_newer_replacement_of_Sikh_Empire_Map" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:21, 27 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</div></div> </div> <div class="boilerplate-header" style="margin-left: 1.6em; font-style: italic;"> The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion. </div> <hr /> It looks like a legal threat is looming, so I feel I need to speak up because this situation has gotten out of hand. Recently, in a discussion about the this ambivalent case, a user named @<a href="/wiki/User:Rawn3012" title="User:Rawn3012">Rawn3012</a> <a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.m.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Sikh_Empire&action=history">[129]</a> kept reasserting a cartographical changes to a <a href="/wiki/Sikh_Empire" title="Sikh Empire">Sikh Empire</a> map without any conclusive discussion<a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.m.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Sikh_Empire&diff=prev&oldid=1235595709">[130]</a>. The problem is that historical maps shouldn’t be changed back and forth without proper discussion, but he continued doing so without any reassurance. This made the situation worse because only a specific group with extended confirmed rights is allowed to make such changes. I thought about posting this issue on the administrator noticeboard, hoping that whatever decision comes from the consensus will be final and accepted. Now, we just have to wait and see what happens in the end. <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/2409:40D6:103:7C1E:2051:7A59:FF58:9232" title="Special:Contributions/2409:40D6:103:7C1E:2051:7A59:FF58:9232">2409:40D6:103:7C1E:2051:7A59:FF58:9232</a> (<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:2409:40D6:103:7C1E:2051:7A59:FF58:9232&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User talk:2409:40D6:103:7C1E:2051:7A59:FF58:9232 (page does not exist)">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-2409:40D6:103:7C1E:2051:7A59:FF58:9232-20250226045300-Competent_(Legal)_issue_over_the_newer_replacement_of_Sikh_Empire_Map" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">04:53, 26 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd><a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/2409:40D6:103:7C1E:2051:7A59:FF58:9232" title="Special:Contributions/2409:40D6:103:7C1E:2051:7A59:FF58:9232">2409:40D6:103:7C1E:2051:7A59:FF58:9232</a>, you did post this issue on the Administrators' Noticeboard, right here. <a href="/wiki/User:Liz" title="User:Liz">Liz</a> <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Liz" title="Special:Contributions/Liz">Read!</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Liz" title="User talk:Liz">Talk!</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Liz-20250226050200-2409:40D6:103:7C1E:2051:7A59:FF58:9232-20250226045300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">05:02, 26 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Did i done something wrong for now or it’s suddenly flicking on this interface @<a href="/wiki/User:Liz" title="User:Liz">Liz</a> <a href="/wiki/File:Emojione_1F603.svg" class="mw-file-description"><img alt="😃" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/7f/Emojione_1F603.svg/16px-Emojione_1F603.svg.png" decoding="async" width="16" height="16" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/7f/Emojione_1F603.svg/24px-Emojione_1F603.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/7f/Emojione_1F603.svg/32px-Emojione_1F603.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="512" data-file-height="512" /></a> <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/2409:40D6:103:7C1E:2051:7A59:FF58:9232" title="Special:Contributions/2409:40D6:103:7C1E:2051:7A59:FF58:9232">2409:40D6:103:7C1E:2051:7A59:FF58:9232</a> (<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:2409:40D6:103:7C1E:2051:7A59:FF58:9232&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User talk:2409:40D6:103:7C1E:2051:7A59:FF58:9232 (page does not exist)">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-2409:40D6:103:7C1E:2051:7A59:FF58:9232-20250226051500-Liz-20250226050200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">05:15, 26 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd> <dd>I am not able to understand what is wrong with these new IPs(If they are not same). First, they commented on the article's <a href="/wiki/Talk:Sikh_Empire" title="Talk:Sikh Empire">talk</a> page, and when I replied, they didn't respond and the same they did on Sutyarashi's <a class="external text" href="https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Sutyarashi?markasread=334660420&markasreadwiki=enwiki">talk</a> page, and when responded again they did not answer me with a proper reply. Now, when I have been pinged here I would reply with the thing I said earlier both the maps old and new were created by me only and the map upgrade was simply intended to solve the concern raised <a href="/wiki/Talk:Hoysala_Kingdom" title="Talk:Hoysala Kingdom">here</a>. (Last discussion)</dd> <dd>Regards</dd> <dd><a href="/wiki/User:Rawn3012" title="User:Rawn3012">Rawn3012</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Rawn3012" title="User talk:Rawn3012">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Rawn3012-20250226055100-Liz-20250226050200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">05:51, 26 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd></dl> <ul><li>What I don't understand here is why there would be a legal issue over which map is the more visually appealing for the article? It's not as if the two versions display any information that is different. I also note that there has been a lot of activity from sockpuppets of banned editors on this article recently. <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Black_Kite" title="User talk:Black Kite">Black Kite (talk)</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Black_Kite-20250226100500-2409:40D6:103:7C1E:2051:7A59:FF58:9232-20250226045300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">10:05, 26 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li> <li>This looks like a content dispute - which map is preferred in the article (I count at least five different ones in the history) - and should be resolved by discussion on the article talk page. Though 2409:40D6:103:7C1E:2051:7A59:FF58:9232 should explain their comment that it "looks like a legal threat is looming". --<a href="/wiki/User:Malcolmxl5" title="User:Malcolmxl5">Malcolmxl5</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Malcolmxl5" title="User talk:Malcolmxl5">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Malcolmxl5-20250226141600-2409:40D6:103:7C1E:2051:7A59:FF58:9232-20250226045300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">14:16, 26 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li></ul> <div style="padding-left: 1.6em; font-style: italic; border-top: 1px solid #a2a9b1; margin: 0.5em 0; padding-top: 0.5em">The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.</div> </div><div style="clear:both;" class=""></div> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Heritage_Foundation_plans_to_doxx_Wikipedia_editors_and_admins" data-mw-thread-id="h-Heritage_Foundation_plans_to_doxx_Wikipedia_editors_and_admins-20250227181600">Heritage Foundation plans to doxx Wikipedia editors and admins</h2>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard&action=edit&section=49" title="Edit section: Heritage Foundation plans to doxx Wikipedia editors and admins">edit</a>]<div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1250141580" /><div class="boilerplate archived archive-top mw-archivedtalk" style=""><link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1235681985" /><div class="side-box metadata side-box-right archive-top-result" style="padding: 10px; line-height: inherit;"> <div class="side-box-abovebelow" style="padding: 0;"> WE'RE AWARE</div> <div class="side-box-flex"> <div class="side-box-text" style="padding: 0;">This has been discussed here and at VPP previously. - <a href="/wiki/User:The_Bushranger" title="User:The Bushranger">The Bushranger</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:The_Bushranger" title="User talk:The Bushranger">One ping only</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-The_Bushranger-20250228002000-Heritage_Foundation_plans_to_doxx_Wikipedia_editors_and_admins" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:20, 28 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</div></div> </div> <div class="boilerplate-header" style="margin-left: 1.6em; font-style: italic;"> The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion. </div> <hr /> <ul><li>News: <a rel="nofollow" class="external free" href="https://www.techdirt.com/2025/02/26/heritage-foundation-presentation-details-plans-to-doxx-and-target-wikipeda-editors-it-claims-are-abusing-their-position">https://www.techdirt.com/2025/02/26/heritage-foundation-presentation-details-plans-to-doxx-and-target-wikipeda-editors-it-claims-are-abusing-their-position</a></li></ul> <ul><li><a href="/wiki/The_Heritage_Foundation" title="The Heritage Foundation">The Heritage Foundation</a></li></ul> <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1256395271" /> <table class="hidden-archive mw-collapsible mw-archivedtalk mw-collapsed"> <tbody><tr> <th class="hat-header">Hatting this. I'm not sure if <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:BEANS" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:BEANS">WP:BEANS</a> applies but... - <a href="/wiki/User:The_Bushranger" title="User:The Bushranger">The Bushranger</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:The_Bushranger" title="User talk:The Bushranger">One ping only</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-The_Bushranger-20250228002000-Heritage_Foundation_plans_to_doxx_Wikipedia_editors_and_admins-1" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:20, 28 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] </th></tr> <tr> <td style="font-style:italic;">The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. </td></tr> <tr> <td class="hat-content"> Heritage details: <dl><dd>The Heritage Foundation (sometimes referred to simply as "Heritage") is an American conservative think tank based in Washington, D.C. Founded in 1973, it took a leading role in the conservative movement in the 1980s during the presidency of Ronald Reagan, whose policies were taken from Heritage Foundation studies, including its Mandate for Leadership.</dd></dl> <dl><dd>The Heritage Foundation has had significant influence in U.S. public policy making, and has historically been ranked among the most influential public policy organizations in the United States. In 2010, it founded a sister organization, Heritage Action, an influential activist force in conservative and Republican politics.</dd></dl> <dl><dd>Heritage leads the 2025 Presidential Transition Project, also known as Project 2025, an extensive plan that includes appointing ideologically aligned civil servants, restricting abortion access, opposing LGBTQ+ rights, transforming federal agencies for political purposes, and imposing strict immigration policies. The New York Times reported The Heritage Foundation posted misinformation about the 2024 US election and crafted faked videos claiming that noncitizens would rig the 2024 US election.</dd></dl> Heritage Wikipedian Doxxing Plan details <ul><li>Wikipedia editor targeting: <a rel="nofollow" class="external free" href="https://forward.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/01/Heritage-Wikipedia-Oversight-Project-Forward.pdf">https://forward.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/01/Heritage-Wikipedia-Oversight-Project-Forward.pdf</a></li> <li>Archive of that: <a rel="nofollow" class="external free" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20250108002135/https://forward.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/01/Heritage-Wikipedia-Oversight-Project-Forward.pdf">https://web.archive.org/web/20250108002135/https://forward.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/01/Heritage-Wikipedia-Oversight-Project-Forward.pdf</a></li></ul> From PDF: Overview: <ul><li>Identify and target Wikipedia editors abusing their position by analyzing text patterns, usernames, and technical data through data breach analysis, fingerprinting, HUMINT, and technical targeting.</li></ul> Fingerprinting: <ul><li>Text Analysis: Use NLP to identify writing style, repeated phrases, and content patterns.</li> <li>Cross-Article Comparison: Detect similarities in multiple articles, focusing on propagandist themes.</li> <li>Behavioral Patterns: Analyze edit frequency, topic focus, and collaboration behavior.</li> <li>Historical Comparison: Track revert-and-restore behavior for coordinated agenda.</li></ul> Username Analysis and Dataset Correlation: <ul><li>Username Profiling: Analyze naming patterns and cross-reference usernames across platforms.</li> <li>Reuse in Breached Data: Search breached datasets for reused names, emails, and online identities.</li> <li>Cross-Platform Analysis: Identify connections between usernames and other online activities.</li></ul> Technical Fingerprinting (Controlled Domain Redirects): <ul><li>Controlled Links: Use redirects to capture IP addresses, browser fingerprints, and device data through a combination of in browser fingerprinting scripts and HTML5 canvas techniques * * * Technical Data Collection: Track geolocation, ISP, and network details from clicked links</li> <li>Cross-Session Tracking: Follow device or browser sessions through repeated visits by setting cookies. User is only on domain for < 2 seconds prior to redirection</li></ul> Online Human Intelligence (HUMINT): <ul><li>Persona Engagement: Engage curated sock puppet accounts to reveal patterns and provoke reactions, information disclosure</li> <li>Behavioral Manipulation: Push specific topics to expose more identity related details</li> <li>Cross-Community Targeting: Interact across platforms to gather intelligence from other sources.</li></ul> </td></tr></tbody></table> Sharing if needed to be discussed or communicated to editors if there is legal, personal, civil, political or physical risk to editing Wikipedia now in the USA due to conservatives. -- <a href="/wiki/User:Very_Polite_Person" title="User:Very Polite Person">Very Polite Person</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Very_Polite_Person" title="User talk:Very Polite Person">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Very_Polite_Person-20250227181600-Heritage_Foundation_plans_to_doxx_Wikipedia_editors_and_admins" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:16, 27 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>This has been discussed <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Village_pump_(miscellaneous)/Archive_80#Heritage_Foundation_intending_to_"identify_and_target"_editors" title="Wikipedia:Village pump (miscellaneous)/Archive 80">here</a>. Btw the original post here looks very much like it was generated by an LLM. <a href="/wiki/User:Phil_Bridger" class="mw-redirect" title="User:Phil Bridger">Phil Bridger</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Phil_Bridger" title="User talk:Phil Bridger">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Phil_Bridger-20250227183200-Very_Polite_Person-20250227181600" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:32, 27 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>I did not use any LLM here. The bulk is literally copy-pasted straight out of the Heritage Foundation plan document which I linked. -- <a href="/wiki/User:Very_Polite_Person" title="User:Very Polite Person">Very Polite Person</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Very_Polite_Person" title="User talk:Very Polite Person">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Very_Polite_Person-20250227183500-Phil_Bridger-20250227183200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:35, 27 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>I see now. Sorry for maligning you incorrectly. <a href="/wiki/User:Phil_Bridger" class="mw-redirect" title="User:Phil Bridger">Phil Bridger</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Phil_Bridger" title="User talk:Phil Bridger">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Phil_Bridger-20250227185500-Very_Polite_Person-20250227183500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:55, 27 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <ul><li>But the subject was already brought up at the VP. It's good to be informed about these plots but I'm not sure what the admin community should be doing about this strategy by an outside group. They aren't the first organization that has sought to use Wikipedia for their own purposes. Media organizations, PR agencies, groups on discussion boards and websites, governments and private individuals have tried tracking articles and editors in the past. <a href="/wiki/User:Liz" title="User:Liz">Liz</a> <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Liz" title="Special:Contributions/Liz">Read!</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Liz" title="User talk:Liz">Talk!</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Liz-20250227192100-Phil_Bridger-20250227185500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:21, 27 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Just for the edification of @<a href="/wiki/User:Very_Polite_Person" title="User:Very Polite Person">Very Polite Person</a> the community has taken some steps here already - the Heritage Foundation has been added to the spam blacklist and Wikipedia editors will not be able to link directly to Heritage Foundation URLs. They're also now considered an unreliable source. Beyond that, at VPP and other places, knowledge has been shared with editors on digital privacy and protecting themselves in the event of a dox or similar incident. <a href="/wiki/User:Simonm223" title="User:Simonm223">Simonm223</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Simonm223" title="User talk:Simonm223">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Simonm223-20250227192400-Liz-20250227192100" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:24, 27 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></li></ul></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div style="padding-left: 1.6em; font-style: italic; border-top: 1px solid #a2a9b1; margin: 0.5em 0; padding-top: 0.5em">The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.</div> </div><div style="clear:both;" class=""></div> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Template_update" data-mw-thread-id="h-Template_update-20250228003400">Template update</h2>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard&action=edit&section=50" title="Edit section: Template update">edit</a>]<div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> Hello. Would an administrator please update <a href="/wiki/Template:Editnotices/Page/List_of_NHL_statistical_leaders" title="Template:Editnotices/Page/List of NHL statistical leaders">Template:Editnotices/Page/List of NHL statistical leaders</a>, as we're now in the 2024–25 NHL season <a href="/wiki/User:GoodDay" title="User:GoodDay">GoodDay</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:GoodDay" title="User talk:GoodDay">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-GoodDay-20250228003400-Template_update" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:34, 28 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd><img alt="" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/f/fb/Yes_check.svg/18px-Yes_check.svg.png" decoding="async" width="18" height="18" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/f/fb/Yes_check.svg/27px-Yes_check.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/f/fb/Yes_check.svg/36px-Yes_check.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="600" data-file-height="600" /> Done <a href="/wiki/User:Voorts" title="User:Voorts">voorts</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Voorts" title="User talk:Voorts">talk</a>/<a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Voorts" title="Special:Contributions/Voorts">contributions</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Voorts-20250228005800-GoodDay-20250228003400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:58, 28 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="RfC_closure_review_request_at_Wikipedia:Village_pump_(policy)#Guideline_against_use_of_AI_images_in_BLPs_and_medical_articles?" data-mw-thread-id="h-RfC_closure_review_request_at_Wikipedia:Village_pump_(policy)#Guideline_against-20250228014700">RfC closure review request at Wikipedia:Village pump (policy)#Guideline against use of AI images in BLPs and medical articles?</h2>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard&action=edit&section=51" title="Edit section: RfC closure review request at Wikipedia:Village pump (policy)#Guideline against use of AI images in BLPs and medical articles?">edit</a>]<div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1250141580" /><div class="boilerplate archived archive-top mw-archivedtalk" style=""><link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1235681985" /><div class="side-box metadata side-box-right archive-top-result" style="padding: 10px; line-height: inherit;"> <div class="side-box-abovebelow" style="padding: 0;"> REÖPENED; RECLOSING</div> <div class="side-box-flex"> <div class="side-box-text" style="padding: 0;">Close self-reverted by closer. I'll take a stab at reclosing in the next few hours. -- <a href="/wiki/User:Tamzin" title="User:Tamzin">Tamzin</a>[<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Tamzin" title="User talk:Tamzin">cetacean needed</a>] (<a href="/wiki/User:Tamzin/%F0%9F%A4%B7" class="mw-redirect" title="User:Tamzin/🤷">they|xe|🤷</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Tamzin-20250228052000-RfC_closure_review_request_at_Wikipedia:Village_pump_(policy)#Guideline_against" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">05:20, 28 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Partially closed. Partially relisted. -- <a href="/wiki/User:Tamzin" title="User:Tamzin">Tamzin</a>[<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Tamzin" title="User talk:Tamzin">cetacean needed</a>] (<a href="/wiki/User:Tamzin/%F0%9F%A4%B7" class="mw-redirect" title="User:Tamzin/🤷">they|xe|🤷</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Tamzin-20250228063100-Tamzin-20250228052000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">06:31, 28 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></div></div> </div> <div class="boilerplate-header" style="margin-left: 1.6em; font-style: italic;"> The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion. </div> <hr /> <dl><dd><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Image_use_policy" title="Wikipedia:Image use policy">Wikipedia:Image use policy</a> (<a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Image_use_policy" title="Wikipedia talk:Image use policy">talk</a><kbd>|</kbd><a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Image_use_policy&action=edit">edit</a><kbd>|</kbd><a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Image_use_policy&action=history">history</a><kbd>|</kbd><a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Log&page=Wikipedia%3AImage+use+policy">logs</a><kbd>|</kbd><a href="/wiki/Special:WhatLinksHere/Wikipedia:Image_use_policy" title="Special:WhatLinksHere/Wikipedia:Image use policy">links</a><kbd>|</kbd><a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20200101010101///en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Image_use_policy">cache</a><kbd>|</kbd><a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Image_use_policy&action=watch">watch</a>) (<a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Village_pump_(policy)#Guideline_against_use_of_AI_images_in_BLPs_and_medical_articles?" title="Wikipedia:Village pump (policy)">RfC closure in question</a>) (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:TurboSuperA%2B#Recent_VP_closure" title="User talk:TurboSuperA+">Discussion with closer</a>)</dd></dl> Closer: <a href="/wiki/User:TurboSuperA%2B" title="User:TurboSuperA+">TurboSuperA+</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:TurboSuperA%2B" title="User talk:TurboSuperA+">talk</a> · <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/TurboSuperA%2B" title="Special:Contributions/TurboSuperA+">contribs</a> · <a href="/wiki/Special:DeletedContributions/TurboSuperA%2B" title="Special:DeletedContributions/TurboSuperA+">deleted contribs</a> · <a href="/wiki/Special:Log/TurboSuperA%2B" title="Special:Log/TurboSuperA+">logs</a> · <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3AAbuseLog&wpSearchUser=TurboSuperA%2B">filter log</a> · <a href="/wiki/Special:Block/TurboSuperA%2B" title="Special:Block/TurboSuperA+">block user</a> · <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3ALog%2Fblock&page=User%3ATurboSuperA%2B">block log</a>) User requesting review: <a href="/wiki/User:Voorts" title="User:Voorts">voorts</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Voorts" title="User talk:Voorts">talk</a> · <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/voorts" title="Special:Contributions/voorts">contribs</a> · <a href="/wiki/Special:DeletedContributions/voorts" title="Special:DeletedContributions/voorts">deleted contribs</a> · <a href="/wiki/Special:Log/voorts" title="Special:Log/voorts">logs</a> · <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3AAbuseLog&wpSearchUser=voorts">filter log</a> · <a href="/wiki/Special:Block/voorts" title="Special:Block/voorts">block user</a> · <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3ALog%2Fblock&page=User%3Avoorts">block log</a>). Posted at <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Voorts-20250228014700-RfC_closure_review_request_at_Wikipedia:Village_pump_(policy)#Guideline_against" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:47, 28 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] Notified: <a href="/wiki/Special:Diff/1278023207" title="Special:Diff/1278023207">Special:Diff/1278023207</a> Reasoning: The close merely restated the positions of the opposing sides in this RfC. It did not weigh between the arguments and explain how the closer reached their conclusion. Additionally, while there is clearly consensus for the BLP aspect (per <a href="/wiki/Special:PermanentLink/1277894436#BLPs" title="Special:PermanentLink/1277894436">this close</a> of a subsidary discussion), the consensus for barring all AI-generated medical images is not at all clear. <div class="mw-heading mw-heading3"><h3 id="Closer_(AI_image_RfC)" data-mw-thread-id="h-Closer_(AI_image_RfC)-RfC_closure_review_request_at_Wikipedia:Village_pump_(policy)#Guideline_against-20250228041300">Closer (AI image RfC)</h3>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard&action=edit&section=52" title="Edit section: Closer (AI image RfC)">edit</a>]</div> <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1248585704" /><q class="inline-quote-talk">"It did not weigh between the arguments and explain how the closer reached their conclusion.</q> Because the consensus was very clear, as you yourself have said. An editor even asked why the RfC consensus wasn't closed in a way to ban AI-generated images site wide<a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:TurboSuperA%2B#AI-generated_imagery_close">[131]</a>. <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1248585704" /><q class="inline-quote-talk">"the consensus for barring all AI-generated medical images is not at all clear."</q> On my talk page you never said that you don't think there was a consensus for banning AI-generated medical images. You simply reiterated your point about missing arguments. <a href="/wiki/User:TurboSuperA%2B" title="User:TurboSuperA+">TurboSuperA+</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:TurboSuperA%2B" title="User talk:TurboSuperA+">☏</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-TurboSuperA+-20250228041300-Closer_(AI_image_RfC)" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">04:13, 28 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <div class="mw-heading mw-heading3"><h3 id="Non-participants_(AI_image_RfC)" data-mw-thread-id="h-Non-participants_(AI_image_RfC)-RfC_closure_review_request_at_Wikipedia:Village_pump_(policy)#Guideline_against-20250228044100">Non-participants (AI image RfC)</h3>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard&action=edit&section=53" title="Edit section: Non-participants (AI image RfC)">edit</a>]</div> <ul><li>Reopen: Upon a quick review while waiting for admin review of another matter, I reviewed this closure. The closure commentary did not give adequate weight to supporters of limited use of AI images in medical contexts. There is an argument (the 1 in 100 baseball example) that is particularly compelling but unaddressed in the closure statement. I recommend a review of the closure logic or a reopening of the RfC. — Preceding <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Signatures" title="Wikipedia:Signatures">unsigned</a> comment added by <a href="/wiki/User:Dw31415" title="User:Dw31415">Dw31415</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Dw31415#top" title="User talk:Dw31415">talk</a> • <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Dw31415" title="Special:Contributions/Dw31415">contribs</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Dw31415-20250228044100-Non-participants_(AI_image_RfC)" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">04:41, 28 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li></ul> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading3"><h3 id="Participants_(AI_image_RfC)" data-mw-thread-id="h-Participants_(AI_image_RfC)-RfC_closure_review_request_at_Wikipedia:Village_pump_(policy)#Guideline_against">Participants (AI image RfC)</h3>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard&action=edit&section=54" title="Edit section: Participants (AI image RfC)">edit</a>]</div> <ul><li class="mw-empty-elt"></li></ul> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading3"><h3 id="Discussion_(AI_image_RfC)" data-mw-thread-id="h-Discussion_(AI_image_RfC)-RfC_closure_review_request_at_Wikipedia:Village_pump_(policy)#Guideline_against-20250228021800">Discussion (AI image RfC)</h3>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard&action=edit&section=55" title="Edit section: Discussion (AI image RfC)">edit</a>]</div> <ul><li>There was <s>only limited</s> discussion with the closer before this was posted but it can be found at <a href="/wiki/User_talk:TurboSuperA%2B#AI-generated_imagery_close" title="User talk:TurboSuperA+">User talk:TurboSuperA+#AI-generated imagery close</a>. <a href="/wiki/User:Liz" title="User:Liz">Liz</a> <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Liz" title="Special:Contributions/Liz">Read!</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Liz" title="User talk:Liz">Talk!</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Liz-20250228021800-Discussion_(AI_image_RfC)" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:18, 28 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>I don't agree with your characterization of the discussion (which has 18 comments over two days) as <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1248585704" /><q class="inline-quote-talk">limited</q>. Several editors raised objections, and Turbo refused to budge. Further discussion was unlikely to lead to Turbo reverting their close. <a href="/wiki/User:Voorts" title="User:Voorts">voorts</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Voorts" title="User talk:Voorts">talk</a>/<a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Voorts" title="Special:Contributions/Voorts">contributions</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Voorts-20250228022700-Liz-20250228021800" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:27, 28 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd><link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1248585704" /><q class="inline-quote-talk">"Turbo refused to budge."</q></dd> <dd>I asked voorts to name an argument I missed and why that argument was important to be mentioned. Their response was: <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1248585704" /><q class="inline-quote-talk">"The issue is that I don't know what arguments you missed or didn't because you didn't summarize them"</q>.</dd> <dd>I said that doesn't make sense, especially after an RfC with a clear consensus (and voorts admits the consensus was clear). <a href="/wiki/User:TurboSuperA%2B" title="User:TurboSuperA+">TurboSuperA+</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:TurboSuperA%2B" title="User talk:TurboSuperA+">☏</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-TurboSuperA+-20250228041900-Voorts-20250228022700" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">04:19, 28 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>I said the consensus RE BLPs is clear – but it was already clear before your close because someone else had already closed that discussion. The consensus about medical images, however, was not. I can't name an argument you missed because you didn't summarize the arguments. As I said on your talk page, it is literally impossible for me to know what arguments you did or did not consider because you didn't state them. <a href="/wiki/User:Voorts" title="User:Voorts">voorts</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Voorts" title="User talk:Voorts">talk</a>/<a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Voorts" title="Special:Contributions/Voorts">contributions</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Voorts-20250228042800-TurboSuperA+-20250228041900" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">04:28, 28 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd><link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1248585704" /><q class="inline-quote-talk">"The consensus about medical images, however, was not."</q></dd> <dd>That is the first time you bring this up. And if the consensus wasn't clear, then how come an editor asked me why the RfC close didn't say that there was a consensus to ban AI-generated imagery in general?<a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:TurboSuperA%2B#c-JoelleJay-20250227180900-AI-generated_imagery_close">[132]</a> <a href="/wiki/User:TurboSuperA%2B" title="User:TurboSuperA+">TurboSuperA+</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:TurboSuperA%2B" title="User talk:TurboSuperA+">☏</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-TurboSuperA+-20250228043900-Voorts-20250228042800" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">04:39, 28 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Joelle <a href="/wiki/Special:Diff/1277963274" title="Special:Diff/1277963274">also suggested</a> self-reverting your close. <a href="/wiki/User:Voorts" title="User:Voorts">voorts</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Voorts" title="User talk:Voorts">talk</a>/<a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Voorts" title="Special:Contributions/Voorts">contributions</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Voorts-20250228044400-TurboSuperA+-20250228043900" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">04:44, 28 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Yes, because they said there was consensus to ban all AI-imagery site-wide (the opposite of your complaint in this thread that there wasn't a consensus for banning AI-generated imagery in medical contexts).</dd> <dd>I actually missed that comment. I'm going to revert my close, but I think this close review should still happen, so that the next closing editor can avoid a close review. It seems that no matter the outcome, someone will be unhappy. So far the two complaints are: 1) there isn't a consensus to ban all medical-related AI-imagery, 2) there is a consensus to ban all AI-generated imagery site-wide. The two are at odds with one another, perhaps more editors need to weigh in on what the consensus actually is. <a href="/wiki/User:TurboSuperA%2B" title="User:TurboSuperA+">TurboSuperA+</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:TurboSuperA%2B" title="User talk:TurboSuperA+">☏</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-TurboSuperA+-20250228045200-Voorts-20250228044400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">04:52, 28 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd> <dd>Liz, there's another section of discussion at <a href="/wiki/User_talk:TurboSuperA%2B#Recent_VP_closure" title="User talk:TurboSuperA+">User talk:TurboSuperA+#Recent VP closure</a>. <a href="/wiki/User:Extraordinary_Writ" title="User:Extraordinary Writ">Extraordinary Writ</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Extraordinary_Writ" title="User talk:Extraordinary Writ">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Extraordinary_Writ-20250228022900-Liz-20250228021800" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:29, 28 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Thank you for pointing that out, Extraordinary Writ. Adjective struck, Voorts. <a href="/wiki/User:Liz" title="User:Liz">Liz</a> <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Liz" title="Special:Contributions/Liz">Read!</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Liz" title="User talk:Liz">Talk!</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Liz-20250228023200-Extraordinary_Writ-20250228022900" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:32, 28 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd></dl></li></ul> <div style="padding-left: 1.6em; font-style: italic; border-top: 1px solid #a2a9b1; margin: 0.5em 0; padding-top: 0.5em">The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.</div> </div><div style="clear:both;" class=""></div> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Creating_a_Geonotice" data-mw-thread-id="h-Creating_a_Geonotice-20250228185200">Creating a Geonotice</h2>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard&action=edit&section=56" title="Edit section: Creating a Geonotice">edit</a>]<div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> I am trying to create a Geonotice for an American Academy of Religion Editathon at Arizona State for March 15 from 2:45 to 3:45. I need permission to post? How do I set up URL and is there a template? Thanks <a href="/wiki/User:RosPost" title="User:RosPost">RosPost</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-RosPost-20250228185200-Creating_a_Geonotice" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:52, 28 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>It looks like you need to put in a request at <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Geonotice" title="Wikipedia:Geonotice">WP:Geonotice</a>, for which you need the coordinates for which you want this message to display. <a href="/wiki/User:Phil_Bridger" class="mw-redirect" title="User:Phil Bridger">Phil Bridger</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Phil_Bridger" title="User talk:Phil Bridger">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Phil_Bridger-20250228201700-RosPost-20250228185200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:17, 28 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Specifically, it's an {{<a href="/wiki/Template:FPER" class="mw-redirect" title="Template:FPER">FPER</a>}} on <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Geonotice/list.json" title="Wikipedia talk:Geonotice/list.json">Wikipedia talk:Geonotice/list.json</a>. <a href="/wiki/User:Primefac" title="User:Primefac">Primefac</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Primefac" title="User talk:Primefac">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Primefac-20250228202100-Phil_Bridger-20250228201700" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:21, 28 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Are you sure about that? <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Geonotice" title="Wikipedia:Geonotice">WP:Geonotice</a> says 'To propose a geonotice, simply create a new third level section (using ===) under the "Requests" section, using the boilerplate text below, and follow the instructions in this section', and says nothing about an {{<a href="/wiki/Template:FPER" class="mw-redirect" title="Template:FPER">FPER</a>}}, nor can I see any evidence of that page being fully protected. <a href="/wiki/User:Phil_Bridger" class="mw-redirect" title="User:Phil Bridger">Phil Bridger</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Phil_Bridger" title="User talk:Phil Bridger">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Phil_Bridger-20250228211000-Primefac-20250228202100" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:10, 28 February 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Mattia_Vlad_Morleo_page" data-mw-thread-id="h-Mattia_Vlad_Morleo_page-20250301155600">Mattia Vlad Morleo page</h2>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard&action=edit&section=57" title="Edit section: Mattia Vlad Morleo page">edit</a>]<div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1250141580" /><div class="boilerplate archived archive-top mw-archivedtalk" style=""><link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1235681985" /><div class="side-box metadata side-box-right archive-top-result" style="padding: 10px; line-height: inherit;"> <div class="side-box-flex"> <div class="side-box-text" style="padding: 0;">Referred to AFC. <a href="/wiki/User:Asilvering" title="User:Asilvering">asilvering</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Asilvering" title="User talk:Asilvering">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Asilvering-20250302232900-Mattia_Vlad_Morleo_page" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:29, 2 March 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</div></div> </div> <div class="boilerplate-header" style="margin-left: 1.6em; font-style: italic;"> The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion. </div> <hr /> Hello, I am trying to create an English language page for the Italian composer and pianist Mattia Vlad Morleo. I am his music manager, but I also know how to create neutral wikipedia pages. I have declared a COI, but now I can't add anything to the page. Also ther was a pop up that said the listing was blacklisted. I do not know / understand why or how to remove this blacklisting so I can create the page. Please advise what needs to be done. I am happy for someone else to create the page if preferred. Thank you <a href="/wiki/User:PMFlack" title="User:PMFlack">PMFlack</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:PMFlack" title="User talk:PMFlack">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-PMFlack-20250301155600-Mattia_Vlad_Morleo_page" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:56, 1 March 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Hello, <a href="/wiki/User:PMFlack" title="User:PMFlack">PMFlack</a>,</dd> <dd>You are not blocked and there is no protection on <a href="/w/index.php?title=Mattia_Vlad_Morleo&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Mattia Vlad Morleo (page does not exist)">Mattia Vlad Morleo</a> but if you really want to pursue this, you should create a draft version at <a href="/w/index.php?title=Draft:Mattia_Vlad_Morleo&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Draft:Mattia Vlad Morleo (page does not exist)">Draft:Mattia Vlad Morleo</a> and, when you are ready, submit it to <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:AFC" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:AFC">Articles for Creation</a> for review. I don't see anything that has been "blacklisted" here.</dd> <dd>A better place to bring your questions is the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Articles_for_creation/Help_desk" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Articles for creation/Help desk">AFC Help Desk</a> or <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Teahouse" title="Wikipedia:Teahouse">the Teahouse</a> as this doesn't involve the administrators' community. <a href="/wiki/User:Liz" title="User:Liz">Liz</a> <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Liz" title="Special:Contributions/Liz">Read!</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Liz" title="User talk:Liz">Talk!</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Liz-20250301175100-PMFlack-20250301155600" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:51, 1 March 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl> <div style="padding-left: 1.6em; font-style: italic; border-top: 1px solid #a2a9b1; margin: 0.5em 0; padding-top: 0.5em">The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.</div> </div><div style="clear:both;" class=""></div> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Creation_of_page_Jack_Massey_Welsh" data-mw-thread-id="h-Creation_of_page_Jack_Massey_Welsh-20250302031400">Creation of page Jack Massey Welsh</h2>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard&action=edit&section=58" title="Edit section: Creation of page Jack Massey Welsh">edit</a>]<div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1250141580" /><div class="boilerplate archived archive-top mw-archivedtalk" style=""><link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1235681985" /><div class="side-box metadata side-box-right archive-top-result" style="padding: 10px; line-height: inherit;"> <div class="side-box-flex"> <div class="side-box-text" style="padding: 0;">User advised of next steps for potential unsalting. This draft clearly will not be approved. <a href="/wiki/User:Star_Mississippi" title="User:Star Mississippi">Star</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Star_Mississippi" title="User talk:Star Mississippi">Mississippi</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Star_Mississippi-20250302153000-Creation_of_page_Jack_Massey_Welsh" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:30, 2 March 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</div></div> </div> <div class="boilerplate-header" style="margin-left: 1.6em; font-style: italic;"> The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion. </div> <hr /> Hi, I am writing regarding the "Jack Massey Welsh" page, which was previously created, vandalized, and permanently banned from Wikipedia over five years ago. I understand the concerns that led to its protection, likely stemming from insufficient sourcing and failing <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:GNG" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:GNG">WP:GNG</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:NWEB" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:NWEB">WP:NWEB</a>, etc. Since then, significant time has passed, and Jack Massey Welsh has gained substantial recognition, supported by reliable, independent sources. I have drafted a revised version in my sandbox, adhering to Wikipedia’s notability and verifiability guidelines with updated citations from mainstream media and authoritative outlets. I kindly request you review this draft in <a href="/wiki/User:RavenM3/sandbox" title="User:RavenM3/sandbox"> my sandbox</a> to assess its eligibility for reinstatement, as I believe it now meets the required standards. Thank you for your consideration - <a href="/wiki/User:RavenM3" title="User:RavenM3">RavenM3</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:RavenM3" title="User talk:RavenM3">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-RavenM3-20250302031400-Creation_of_page_Jack_Massey_Welsh" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">03:14, 2 March 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Did you use AI to write this?<div class="paragraphbreak" style="margin-top:0.5em"></div><link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1248585704" /><q class="inline-quote-talk">This diversification reflects Massey’s adaptability, allowing him to explore varied content while maintaining a unified persona across his brand. His success with these channels demonstrates his ability to identify and capitalize on niche markets within YouTube’s vast ecosystem, a strategy that has kept him relevant in an ever-evolving digital landscape.</q><div class="paragraphbreak" style="margin-top:0.5em"></div>I will not be moving this to mainspace or lifting the SALT. <a href="/wiki/User:Voorts" title="User:Voorts">voorts</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Voorts" title="User talk:Voorts">talk</a>/<a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Voorts" title="Special:Contributions/Voorts">contributions</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Voorts-20250302034000-RavenM3-20250302031400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">03:40, 2 March 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Whether or not an AI was used, the press release tone is making me awkward. <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1248585704" /><q class="inline-quote-talk">his adeptness at digital content creation suggests a self-taught proficiency in technology and media production, honed through years of experimentation and online engagement</q> - please no. It's supposed to be a neutrally toned biography article. 0x<a href="/wiki/User:0xDeadbeef" title="User:0xDeadbeef">Deadbeef</a>→∞ (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:0xDeadbeef#top" title="User talk:0xDeadbeef">talk to me</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-0xDeadbeef-20250302040200-Voorts-20250302034000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">04:02, 2 March 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>No I didn’t use AI - I did however use Grammarly to change some words around to sound a tiny bit more interesting… to say the least - mainly as this is completely out of my area of editing haha.</dd> <dd>Honestly though, the content is there with credible citations if things are changed and fixed, I don’t see any reason to why it shouldn’t be accepted with a semi-protected lock to prevent his community from vandalising.</dd> <dd>- <a href="/wiki/User:RavenM3" title="User:RavenM3">RavenM3</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:RavenM3" title="User talk:RavenM3">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-RavenM3-20250302051100-0xDeadbeef-20250302040200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">05:11, 2 March 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>The citations are not <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1248585704" /><q class="inline-quote-talk">credible</q>, particularly for a <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:BLP" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:BLP">BLP</a>. Getting a <a href="/wiki/Guinness_World_Record" class="mw-redirect" title="Guinness World Record">Guinness World Record</a> doesn't establish notability and the records themselves are unreliable because anyone can just purchase one. The NY Post and Metro are both considered <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:GUNREL" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:GUNREL">generally unreliable</a>. Wikitubia is <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:UGC" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:UGC">user-generated content</a>. Etc. <a href="/wiki/User:Voorts" title="User:Voorts">voorts</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Voorts" title="User talk:Voorts">talk</a>/<a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Voorts" title="Special:Contributions/Voorts">contributions</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Voorts-20250302053800-RavenM3-20250302051100" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">05:38, 2 March 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>I also just did some googling, and did not see any sources that would indicate that this YouTuber is notable. Having a lot of viewers does not mean someone should have a Wikipedia article about them. <a href="/wiki/User:Voorts" title="User:Voorts">voorts</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Voorts" title="User talk:Voorts">talk</a>/<a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Voorts" title="Special:Contributions/Voorts">contributions</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Voorts-20250302054000-Voorts-20250302053800" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">05:40, 2 March 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <ul><li><a href="/wiki/User:RavenM3" title="User:RavenM3">RavenM3</a>, the standard step for a deleted article is to write a draft and submit it to <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:AFC" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:AFC">AFC</a> for review by an AFC reviewer. Protection will not be lifted before it is approved by an AFC reviewer. <a href="/wiki/User:Liz" title="User:Liz">Liz</a> <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Liz" title="Special:Contributions/Liz">Read!</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Liz" title="User talk:Liz">Talk!</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Liz-20250302053800-RavenM3-20250302031400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">05:38, 2 March 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li></ul> <div style="padding-left: 1.6em; font-style: italic; border-top: 1px solid #a2a9b1; margin: 0.5em 0; padding-top: 0.5em">The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.</div> </div><div style="clear:both;" class=""></div> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="User:_ZOMG_INCOMING" data-mw-thread-id="h-User:_ZOMG_INCOMING-20250302061200">User: ZOMG INCOMING</h2>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard&action=edit&section=59" title="Edit section: User: ZOMG INCOMING">edit</a>]<div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1250141580" /><div class="boilerplate archived archive-top mw-archivedtalk" style=""><link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1235681985" /><div class="side-box metadata side-box-right archive-top-result" style="padding: 10px; line-height: inherit;"> <div class="side-box-flex"> <div class="side-box-text" style="padding: 0;">This does not require urgent administrative attention. Please provide sufficient warnings to the editor and then bring them to <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:AIV" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:AIV">WP:AIV</a> if they continue to vandalize articles. <a href="/wiki/User:Voorts" title="User:Voorts">voorts</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Voorts" title="User talk:Voorts">talk</a>/<a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Voorts" title="Special:Contributions/Voorts">contributions</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Voorts-20250302061500-User:_ZOMG_INCOMING" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">06:15, 2 March 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</div></div> </div> <div class="boilerplate-header" style="margin-left: 1.6em; font-style: italic;"> The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion. </div> <hr /> @<a href="/w/index.php?title=User:ZOMG_INCOMING&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:ZOMG INCOMING (page does not exist)">ZOMG INCOMING</a> It all started with the page <a href="/wiki/Sunny_Bunnies" title="Sunny Bunnies">Sunny Bunnies</a>. I basically act as the caretaker of this page (see the edit history) and a couple days back this user ZOMG INCOMING made 4 pretty strange distruptive edits where the user claimed the creator of the cartoon show was <a href="/wiki/Zane_Steckler" class="mw-redirect" title="Zane Steckler">Zane Steckler</a>. I did revert those edits and left a warning on their talk page. But checking the history of the user page, I found that he said this on his sandbox before blanking it out: "ZOMG SEE ZOMG IS A ZEPPELIN FROM BTD5 BLOONS MONKEY CITY BTD6 BTDB2 SEE ITS IS A ZEPPELIN WITH A SKULL ON TOP OF IT AND WITH GREEN STRIPES ON IT NEAR THE FANS THAT MOVE IT IT IS VERY COOL DO NOT POP IT SEE THAT IT WAS THE STONGST IN BTD5 AND BLOONS MONKEY CITY BUT NOW IN BTD6 AND BTDB2 THE BAD IS NOW THE STONGST AND I DONT LIKE THE BAD AT ALL AND ZOMG MEANS ZEPPELIN OF MIGHTY GARGANTUANESS AND IT IS MADE UP OF BFBS WHICH ARE MADE UP OF MOABS WHICH MADE UP OF BLOONS". This user has been around for a year and the only edits he made are those edits to Sunny Bunnies and his strange sandbox. Seems like a case of <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:NOTHERE" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:NOTHERE">WP:NOTHERE</a> but it's just too early to make any assumptions; but this user is definitely a suspect. I'm a relatively new Wikipedian so I don't exactly know what to do with this user.<a href="/wiki/User:Yelps" title="User:Yelps">Yelps</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Yelps" title="User talk:Yelps">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Yelps-20250302061200-User:_ZOMG_INCOMING" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">06:12, 2 March 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <div style="padding-left: 1.6em; font-style: italic; border-top: 1px solid #a2a9b1; margin: 0.5em 0; padding-top: 0.5em">The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.</div> </div><div style="clear:both;" class=""></div> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Request_to_unban_my_socks." data-mw-thread-id="h-Request_to_unban_my_socks.-20250302102500">Request to unban my socks.</h2>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard&action=edit&section=60" title="Edit section: Request to unban my socks.">edit</a>]<div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1250141580" /><div class="boilerplate archived archive-top mw-archivedtalk" style=""><link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1235681985" /><div class="side-box metadata side-box-right archive-top-result" style="padding: 10px; line-height: inherit;"> <div class="side-box-flex"> <div class="side-box-text" style="padding: 0;">These socks will not be unblocked. Michaelshea04, please go edit an article and do not worry about old comments made. It's best to forget the existence of these accounts. <a href="/wiki/User:Star_Mississippi" title="User:Star Mississippi">Star</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Star_Mississippi" title="User talk:Star Mississippi">Mississippi</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Star_Mississippi-20250302153200-Request_to_unban_my_socks." class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:32, 2 March 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</div></div> </div> <div class="boilerplate-header" style="margin-left: 1.6em; font-style: italic;"> The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion. </div> <hr /> This may be an unusual request and for that reason may be declined but I am requesting my sock accounts to be unbanned for a few reasons, first is because I was unbanned I don't think there would be much point to leaving my sock accounts banned anyway. The other reason is that my orginal account Michaelshea2004 is still banned according to the user page even though my active account that I am editing from now was unbanned. This is a bit confusing. I know it is policy to leave sock accounts permanently, as in forever, blocked/banned regardless if the user is unbanned or not, but can exceptions be made?. Is there a specific reason as to why the policy that sockpuppet accounts are to be blocked forever is in place even though the user has been unbanned?. I understand it would be to prevent potential abuse but would there be much point if the user is unbanned?. Please forgive me if I sound a bit argumentative or demanding. <a class="external free" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Wikipedia_sockpuppets_of_Michaelshea2004">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Wikipedia_sockpuppets_of_Michaelshea2004</a> <a href="/wiki/User:Michaelshea04" title="User:Michaelshea04">Michaelshea04</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Michaelshea04" title="User talk:Michaelshea04">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Michaelshea04-20250302102500-Request_to_unban_my_socks." class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">10:25, 2 March 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:Michaelshea04" title="User:Michaelshea04">Michaelshea04</a>: let me get this straight... you're saying you want to go back to operating those ten sock accounts of yours? -- <a href="/wiki/User:DoubleGrazing" title="User:DoubleGrazing">DoubleGrazing</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:DoubleGrazing" title="User talk:DoubleGrazing">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-DoubleGrazing-20250302110500-Michaelshea04-20250302102500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">11:05, 2 March 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>No. I just want them unbanned. It's a very unusual request I know. <a href="/wiki/User:Michaelshea04" title="User:Michaelshea04">Michaelshea04</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Michaelshea04" title="User talk:Michaelshea04">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Michaelshea04-20250302110800-DoubleGrazing-20250302110500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">11:08, 2 March 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>If you're not going to use them, why would they need to be useable? Am I missing something here? -- <a href="/wiki/User:DoubleGrazing" title="User:DoubleGrazing">DoubleGrazing</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:DoubleGrazing" title="User talk:DoubleGrazing">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-DoubleGrazing-20250302111200-Michaelshea04-20250302110800" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">11:12, 2 March 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>They don't, but I also didn't mention, there is some very embarrassing messages from me that may not be able to be deleted if they are still blocked. <a href="/wiki/User:Michaelshea04" title="User:Michaelshea04">Michaelshea04</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Michaelshea04" title="User talk:Michaelshea04">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Michaelshea04-20250302111800-DoubleGrazing-20250302111200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">11:18, 2 March 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>You say "I know it is policy to leave sock accounts permanently, as in forever, blocked/banned regardless if the user is unbanned or not, but can exceptions be made?" but you've given pretty slim grounds for an exception, if it was done here, it'd need to be done all the time. No one forced you to make comments you deem embarrassing and trying to remove them only draws more attention to them(<a href="/wiki/Streisand_effect" title="Streisand effect">Streisand effect</a>). Personally I would just let it go. If there's something really bad that should be removed, maybe we can deal with that a different way. <a href="/wiki/User:331dot" title="User:331dot">331dot</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:331dot" title="User talk:331dot">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-331dot-20250302112800-Michaelshea04-20250302111800" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">11:28, 2 March 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>I know, but going back to those messages that, yes, I did write, and knowing that and how immature I was is very humiliating to me, and I would be hoping they can be cleared out for my privacy. <a href="/wiki/User:Michaelshea04" title="User:Michaelshea04">Michaelshea04</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Michaelshea04" title="User talk:Michaelshea04">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Michaelshea04-20250302113700-331dot-20250302112800" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">11:37, 2 March 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Michael, I'm sure that these messages, whatever they are, have now been read by more people that they ever would if you had kept quiet about them. If you try to get them deleted even more people will read them. Anyway, if you really want to go down that path you can delete them or ask for them to be deleted from this account. There is no need for you to use a sockpuppet. <a href="/wiki/User:Phil_Bridger" class="mw-redirect" title="User:Phil Bridger">Phil Bridger</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Phil_Bridger" title="User talk:Phil Bridger">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Phil_Bridger-20250302114800-Michaelshea04-20250302113700" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">11:48, 2 March 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Thank you very much for your advice, I really do appreciate it but I may not be allowed to delete them if it is blocked, even though they are very much my messages, as I know modifying block notices is prohibitied while the block itself is active. And deleting accounts isn't even technically possible anyway and I can't vanish them but continue to use this account, so that's not an option. <a href="/wiki/User:Michaelshea04" title="User:Michaelshea04">Michaelshea04</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Michaelshea04" title="User talk:Michaelshea04">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Michaelshea04-20250302123500-Phil_Bridger-20250302114800" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">12:35, 2 March 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>I think you misunderstand. You can tell us which edits you'd like hidden from view. As we know they were from your sock accounts, you can ask us to take action on those accounts. You're right that the account itself cannot be vanished, but that's not what we're proposing, we can conceal the edits themselves.</dd> <dd>That said, as Phil notes, by starting this discussion far more people are seeing them than if you had said nothing. Please consider letting this go. <a href="/wiki/User:331dot" title="User:331dot">331dot</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:331dot" title="User talk:331dot">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-331dot-20250302125300-Michaelshea04-20250302123500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">12:53, 2 March 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd> <dd>We ban socks regardless. <a href="/wiki/User:Secretlondon" title="User:Secretlondon">Secretlondon</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Secretlondon" title="User talk:Secretlondon">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Secretlondon-20250302112800-Michaelshea04-20250302110800" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">11:28, 2 March 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>forever blocked?. <a href="/wiki/User:Michaelshea04" title="User:Michaelshea04">Michaelshea04</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Michaelshea04" title="User talk:Michaelshea04">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Michaelshea04-20250302113700-Secretlondon-20250302112800" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">11:37, 2 March 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Generally, yes. <a href="/wiki/User:331dot" title="User:331dot">331dot</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:331dot" title="User talk:331dot">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-331dot-20250302125400-Michaelshea04-20250302113700" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">12:54, 2 March 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd> <dd>(<a href="/wiki/Help:Edit_conflict" title="Help:Edit conflict">edit conflict</a>)s. I'm afraid you do sound a bit argumentative and demanding. What is the point in unblocking? I suppose that the ban, which applies to the person, has technically been lifted. What do you intend to edit with the sock accounts? <a href="/wiki/User:Phil_Bridger" class="mw-redirect" title="User:Phil Bridger">Phil Bridger</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Phil_Bridger" title="User talk:Phil Bridger">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Phil_Bridger-20250302112000-Michaelshea04-20250302102500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">11:20, 2 March 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>If I am expected to use them as well as this account, I would generally use them in the same topics as I have been. <a href="/wiki/User:Michaelshea04" title="User:Michaelshea04">Michaelshea04</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Michaelshea04" title="User talk:Michaelshea04">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Michaelshea04-20250302112600-Phil_Bridger-20250302112000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">11:26, 2 March 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>You would certainly not be expected, in any sense of the word, to operate 11 accounts. -- <a href="/wiki/User:DoubleGrazing" title="User:DoubleGrazing">DoubleGrazing</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:DoubleGrazing" title="User talk:DoubleGrazing">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-DoubleGrazing-20250302113000-Michaelshea04-20250302112600" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">11:30, 2 March 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Honestly, Michaelshea04, the best you can do right now is to give up your attempt to get the socks unblocked. Otherwise, a <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:BOOMERANG" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:BOOMERANG">WP:BOOMERANG</a> may hit and you might end up getting blocked again. Asking to have your sockpuppet accounts unblocked when you just last month got unbanned for your abusive sockpuppetry is such a monumentally terrible idea. --<a href="/wiki/User:Yamla" title="User:Yamla">Yamla</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Yamla" title="User talk:Yamla">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Yamla-20250302130000-DoubleGrazing-20250302113000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">13:00, 2 March 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd> <dd>In fact, given the history here, I think you would be expected to operate at most one account. You have one unblocked account, there are just shy of 7 million articles here. Go be a constructive contributor. <a href="/wiki/User:DMacks" title="User:DMacks">DMacks</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:DMacks" title="User talk:DMacks">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-DMacks-20250302132000-DoubleGrazing-20250302113000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">13:20, 2 March 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div style="padding-left: 1.6em; font-style: italic; border-top: 1px solid #a2a9b1; margin: 0.5em 0; padding-top: 0.5em">The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.</div> </div><div style="clear:both;" class=""></div> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Caution_:_Paid_editing_in_place" data-mw-thread-id="h-Caution_:_Paid_editing_in_place-20250302170700">Caution : Paid editing in place</h2>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard&action=edit&section=61" title="Edit section: Caution : Paid editing in place">edit</a>]<div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1250141580" /><div class="boilerplate archived archive-top mw-archivedtalk" style=""><link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1235681985" /><div class="side-box metadata side-box-right archive-top-result" style="padding: 10px; line-height: inherit;"> <div class="side-box-flex"> <div class="side-box-text" style="padding: 0;">Thank you for flagging. No admin action needed at this stage, and UPE can be handled through the usual channels if a draft eventuates. <a href="/wiki/User:Star_Mississippi" title="User:Star Mississippi">Star</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Star_Mississippi" title="User talk:Star Mississippi">Mississippi</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Star_Mississippi-20250303002000-Caution_:_Paid_editing_in_place" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:20, 3 March 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</div></div> </div> <div class="boilerplate-header" style="margin-left: 1.6em; font-style: italic;"> The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion. </div> <hr /> There is a job notification at <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://freelancer.com">freelancer.com</a> titled "<a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://www.freelancer.com/projects/copywriting/wiki-for-actor-author/details">wiki for actor author -- 2</a>" which states that the recruiter is looking for an individual who would make an article about an Ben Cable, which is, of course paid editing to which 55 bids have already been in place. I am not that much active at Wikipedia (more at Commons) so I took the opportunity to notify the administrators about this here so they can take appropriate action when this article is published + on the account which publishes the article. Also, the title suggests that this is the second time the recruiter has done this, so people can investigate and find out what article has been published which is an obvious paid editing. Thank you for reading, <a href="/wiki/User:Contributor2020" title="User:Contributor2020">Contributor2020</a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Contributor2020" title="User talk:Contributor2020">Talk to me here!</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Contributor2020-20250302170700-Caution_:_Paid_editing_in_place" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:07, 2 March 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Thanks for the heads up. Paid editing is allowed so long as it's properly declared. In any event, it's unlikely anyone will remember this post if they ever try to publish an article. <a href="/wiki/User:Voorts" title="User:Voorts">voorts</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Voorts" title="User talk:Voorts">talk</a>/<a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Voorts" title="Special:Contributions/Voorts">contributions</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Voorts-20250302173600-Contributor2020-20250302170700" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:36, 2 March 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>We have an existing <a href="/wiki/Benjamin_T._Cable" title="Benjamin T. Cable">Benjamin T. Cable</a>. The most notable current Ben Cable appears to be <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://www.imdb.com/name/nm7152201/">this guy with an IMDb page</a>, known for roles such as "Dude at Strip Club" and "Pajama Party Guest". <a href="/wiki/User:BD2412" title="User:BD2412">BD2412</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:BD2412" title="User talk:BD2412">T</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-BD2412-20250302174300-Voorts-20250302173600" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:43, 2 March 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>He was brilliant in both roles. <a href="/wiki/User:Voorts" title="User:Voorts">voorts</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Voorts" title="User talk:Voorts">talk</a>/<a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Voorts" title="Special:Contributions/Voorts">contributions</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Voorts-20250302180000-BD2412-20250302174300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:00, 2 March 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Just for clarification, I have no idea whether this is the Ben Cable at issue here. It could be some company CEO or the like. This is just the most prominent one that comes up. <a href="/wiki/User:BD2412" title="User:BD2412">BD2412</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:BD2412" title="User talk:BD2412">T</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-BD2412-20250302192000-Voorts-20250302180000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:20, 2 March 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>The listing says "actor/author Ben Cable" " Ben Cable is well known for both acting and writing" "Ben Cable has had a successful career in short films, music videos, and most recently as an author. For example, his most recent short film, "Everything I Could,” explores a deep conversation and subject between father and daughter." "his challenge to the State of California for gay marriage in 1993" etc... Its not ambiguous, I have no idea how you came to the conclusion that we don't know which Ben Cable is being talked about but you're wrong. This is the best I can find for sigcov<a rel="nofollow" class="external autonumber" href="https://www.ebar.com/story.php?ch=news&id=246642">[133]</a> although there are likely some archived articles from 1993. Overall I don't feel that there is really a path to notability here for Cable, the lawsuit might be notable though (especially if its been mentioned in academic legal coverage). <a href="/wiki/User:Horse_Eye%27s_Back" title="User:Horse Eye's Back">Horse Eye's Back</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Horse_Eye%27s_Back" title="User talk:Horse Eye's Back">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Horse_Eye's_Back-20250302194800-BD2412-20250302192000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:48, 2 March 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Well, I can't find a draft on this subject unless it is placed on a user sandbox somewhere. <a href="/wiki/User:Liz" title="User:Liz">Liz</a> <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Liz" title="Special:Contributions/Liz">Read!</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Liz" title="User talk:Liz">Talk!</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Liz-20250302215500-Horse_Eye's_Back-20250302194800" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:55, 2 March 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Yes. OP said it's still a listing on freelance.com. <a href="/wiki/User:Voorts" title="User:Voorts">voorts</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Voorts" title="User talk:Voorts">talk</a>/<a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Voorts" title="Special:Contributions/Voorts">contributions</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Voorts-20250302220600-Liz-20250302215500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:06, 2 March 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div style="padding-left: 1.6em; font-style: italic; border-top: 1px solid #a2a9b1; margin: 0.5em 0; padding-top: 0.5em">The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.</div> </div><div style="clear:both;" class=""></div> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Admin_Abusing_Power_For_Nepotism" data-mw-thread-id="h-Admin_Abusing_Power_For_Nepotism-20250303010300">Admin Abusing Power For Nepotism</h2>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard&action=edit&section=62" title="Edit section: Admin Abusing Power For Nepotism">edit</a>]<div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1250141580" /><div class="boilerplate archived archive-top mw-archivedtalk" style=""><link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1235681985" /><div class="side-box metadata side-box-right archive-top-result" style="padding: 10px; line-height: inherit;"> <div class="side-box-flex"> <div class="side-box-text" style="padding: 0;">I wasn't going to close this but now the editor is indefinitely blocked so no further discussion is necessary here. <a href="/wiki/User:Liz" title="User:Liz">Liz</a> <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Liz" title="Special:Contributions/Liz">Read!</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Liz" title="User talk:Liz">Talk!</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Liz-20250303022300-Admin_Abusing_Power_For_Nepotism" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:23, 3 March 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</div></div> </div> <div class="boilerplate-header" style="margin-left: 1.6em; font-style: italic;"> The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion. </div> <hr /> @bbb23 threatened to ban me over his nepotistic support of David Gerard. This equates to an admin gang bang where the 1st was just an editor but his own Wikipedia shows a strong bias against the subject matter (or part of it) and the 2nd decided to join in without any justification and threaten a ban. <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Muckraker2018&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Muckraker2018 (page does not exist)">Muckraker2018</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Muckraker2018" title="User talk:Muckraker2018">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Muckraker2018-20250303010300-Admin_Abusing_Power_For_Nepotism" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:03, 3 March 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>You need to notify Bbb23 of tbis discussion, if you really want to proceed. You're more likely to get a <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:BOOMERANG" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:BOOMERANG">WP:BOOMERANG</a> block(not a <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:BAN" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:BAN">ban</a>, which is different) than something happening to Bbb23. I suggest you withdraw this. <a href="/wiki/User:331dot" title="User:331dot">331dot</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:331dot" title="User talk:331dot">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-331dot-20250303010900-Muckraker2018-20250303010300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:09, 3 March 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>OP blocked for personal attacks. <a href="/wiki/User:331dot" title="User:331dot">331dot</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:331dot" title="User talk:331dot">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-331dot-20250303011100-331dot-20250303010900" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:11, 3 March 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>To be clear, not just the insults here, but the same and worse on their talk page. Unless there is a come to Jesus moment very soon, this will be increased to indef with no talk page access. <a href="/wiki/User:Floquenbeam" title="User:Floquenbeam">Floquenbeam</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Floquenbeam" title="User talk:Floquenbeam">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Floquenbeam-20250303021400-331dot-20250303011100" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:14, 3 March 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div style="padding-left: 1.6em; font-style: italic; border-top: 1px solid #a2a9b1; margin: 0.5em 0; padding-top: 0.5em">The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.</div> </div><div style="clear:both;" class=""></div> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Bit_of_a_backlog_at...." data-mw-thread-id="h-Bit_of_a_backlog_at....-20250303035300">Bit of a backlog at....</h2>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard&action=edit&section=63" title="Edit section: Bit of a backlog at....">edit</a>]<div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Requests_for_page_protection" title="Wikipedia:Requests for page protection">Wikipedia:Requests for page protection</a> <a href="/wiki/User:Moxy" title="User:Moxy">Moxy</a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Moxy" title="User talk:Moxy">🍁</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Moxy-20250303035300-Bit_of_a_backlog_at...." class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">03:53, 3 March 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Improper_WP:NAC_at_FTN" data-mw-thread-id="h-Improper_WP:NAC_at_FTN-20250303035400">Improper <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:NAC" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:NAC">WP:NAC</a> at FTN</h2>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard&action=edit&section=64" title="Edit section: Improper WP:NAC at FTN">edit</a>]<div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1250141580" /><div class="boilerplate archived archive-top mw-archivedtalk" style=""><link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1235681985" /><div class="side-box metadata side-box-right archive-top-result" style="padding: 10px; line-height: inherit;"> <div class="side-box-flex"> <div class="side-box-text" style="padding: 0;">Overturned by closer. There's more I'd like to say, but I probably should just take Liz's advice from... not even a week ago. An empty watchlist is indeed boring, but better boring than turning in an incomplete assignment 4 minutes after the deadline. <a href="/wiki/User:Guninvalid" title="User:Guninvalid">guninvalid</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Guninvalid" title="User talk:Guninvalid">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Guninvalid-20250303055600-Improper_WP:NAC_at_FTN" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">05:56, 3 March 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</div></div> </div> <div class="boilerplate-header" style="margin-left: 1.6em; font-style: italic;"> The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion. </div> <hr /> About an hour ago, <a href="/wiki/User:Guninvalid" title="User:Guninvalid">guninvalid</a> closed <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Fringe_theories/Noticeboard#RfC_about_the_pathologization_of_trans_identities" title="Wikipedia:Fringe theories/Noticeboard">this RFC</a> over at <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:FTN" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:FTN">WP:FTN</a> as "procedural close, bad RFC". However, the vast majority of the people participating in the RFC disagree with this opinion, and in fact all agree with the same position on the underlying RFC, to the point several people were calling for a <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:SNOW" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:SNOW">WP:SNOW</a> close. <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Guninvalid#Your_trans_pathologization_close" title="User talk:Guninvalid">This has been brought up at Guninvalid's talk</a>, and their responses have been quite combative, such as <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1248585704" /><q class="inline-quote-talk">If you cornered me and forced me to pick Yes or No, then yes, I would WP:SNOWBALL close it for Yes, because as I said, no one even tried to vote No. But what would that actually mean for Wikipedia? Which articles would have their content changed?</q> This sounds to me like the definition of a <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:SUPERVOTE" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:SUPERVOTE">WP:SUPERVOTE</a>, and frankly a sign that guninvalid should not be allowed to close discussions. <a href="/wiki/User:LokiTheLiar" title="User:LokiTheLiar">Loki</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:LokiTheLiar" title="User talk:LokiTheLiar">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-LokiTheLiar-20250303035400-Improper_WP:NAC_at_FTN" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">03:54, 3 March 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd><link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1248585704" /><q class="inline-quote-talk">guninvalid should not be allowed to close discussions</q> You might be right about that. This is my fourth time being dragged to AN in three months. Maybe I need a one-month block from closing discussions or something. Maybe I should just finish the assignment I have due in 62 minutes... <a href="/wiki/User:Guninvalid" title="User:Guninvalid">guninvalid</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Guninvalid" title="User talk:Guninvalid">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Guninvalid-20250303035800-LokiTheLiar-20250303035400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">03:58, 3 March 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading3"><h3 id="Involved" data-mw-thread-id="h-Involved-Improper_WP:NAC_at_FTN-20250303040300">Involved</h3>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard&action=edit&section=65" title="Edit section: Involved">edit</a>]</div> Support own close. I'm going to leave this here for now and log off Wikipedia because I do actually need to get back to my homework. My overall reasoning for the close was that pretty much every thread longer than three messages had regressed into some level of <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:ABF" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:ABF">WP:ABF</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:ADHOMINEM" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:ADHOMINEM">WP:ADHOMINEM</a>, or some level of gatekeeping for not having read the whole RfC. The Yes votes, on the other hand, had basically no discussion because there was effectively nothing to discuss. Instead, all of the discussion focused on what any particular word of the question means when the question should've been better worded to begin with. <a href="/wiki/User:Guninvalid" title="User:Guninvalid">guninvalid</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Guninvalid" title="User talk:Guninvalid">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Guninvalid-20250303040300-Involved" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">04:03, 3 March 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] Overturn I <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Guninvalid&diff=prev&oldid=1278552837">already laid out detailed objections on Gunvalid's talkpage</a> (and others said similar things), but I would like emphasise that what seems to have happened is that disruptive editors defending a fringe theory used some well-known tactics to bog down discussion, and unfortunately, they succeeded in bamboozling the closer. <a href="/wiki/User:OsFish" title="User:OsFish">OsFish</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:OsFish" title="User talk:OsFish">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-OsFish-20250303041400-Involved" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">04:14, 3 March 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Just to give more detail for convenience sake (see link in my first comment) - the suggested RFC reformulations suggest the closer hadn't understood the discussion, because those reformulations had no basis in any disputes in the discussion. I also think the closer's decision to admonish editors for asking people to look at the reliable sources in the RFCBEFORE was genuinely strange. We should want editors to read the sources. <a href="/wiki/User:OsFish" title="User:OsFish">OsFish</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:OsFish" title="User talk:OsFish">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-OsFish-20250303043100-OsFish-20250303041400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">04:31, 3 March 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl> Overturn. Thanks Loki, I was preparing my own close review appeal when I saw this. Simply put, this close was not a reasonable summation of the discussion. By my count this RfC had 18 “Yes” !votes and 4 “procedural opposes”. It was closed as a procedural close by guninvalid largely on the basis that the question was too vague to be answered, the evidence for this being that every major word of the question had been inconclusively litigated. But the only reason for the extensive litigation is that editors were engaging with objections raised by those vocal few “procedural oppose” !voters (and others) in good faith. Meanwhile, YFNS, the OP, had provided extensive top-quality sources to support their case. From the point of view of the vast majority of participants, this really was an open-and-shut case in favor of “yes”. <a href="/wiki/User:Generalrelative" title="User:Generalrelative">Generalrelative</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Generalrelative" title="User talk:Generalrelative">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Generalrelative-20250303042200-Involved" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">04:22, 3 March 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Overturn: While I disagree with the opening statement that the quotes were "combative" ("cornered me and forced me to" seems like an attempt to conjure up the words "had me"), they do clearly reflect a lack of understanding of either the discussion or the principle of consensus. There are only two ways I can reason up such a close: either with an extremely literal interpretation of "consensus", or feeling that the opinions of 2 (the 2 other oppose !votes were "per x" IIRC) were substantially stronger than the 18 who understood, half of which presented refutals. I simply have yet to see any way the latter could be true. <a href="/wiki/User:Aaron_Liu" title="User:Aaron Liu">Aaron Liu</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Aaron_Liu#top" title="User talk:Aaron Liu">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Aaron_Liu-20250303054100-Generalrelative-20250303042200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">05:41, 3 March 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading3"><h3 id="Uninvolved" data-mw-thread-id="h-Uninvolved-Improper_WP:NAC_at_FTN-20250303044100">Uninvolved</h3>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard&action=edit&section=66" title="Edit section: Uninvolved">edit</a>]</div> <ul><li>Reopen: I briefly considered closing this RfC as the second one that I’ve done since it was advertised as an easy close. The consensus seemed very clear among the respondents but there was a procedural objection that I didn’t feel experienced enough to address. Namely, the result of the RfC was not a specific edit, but rather seems like an attempt to bank a general consensus position in advance against the opinion that the consensus considers a fringe opinion (a position I’m inclined to agree with). I don’t have enough experience to know if that is a norm within RfC’s. I think the closer was well intentioned, but I’d encourage them to listen to the feedback here and reopen the RfC so someone more experienced can close. <a href="/wiki/User:Dw31415" title="User:Dw31415">Dw31415</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Dw31415#top" title="User talk:Dw31415">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Dw31415-20250303044100-Uninvolved" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">04:41, 3 March 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:OsFish" title="User:OsFish">OsFish</a> provided me a link to an RfC from 4 years ago. I’m including here because I think it’s a valuable precedent in considering how this RfC should be treated. <a class="external text" href="https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Fringe_theories/Noticeboard/Archive_70#RfC_on_race_and_intelligence">Race and Intelligence Fringe Theory RfC</a> <a href="/wiki/User:Dw31415" title="User:Dw31415">Dw31415</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Dw31415#top" title="User talk:Dw31415">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Dw31415-20250303050000-Dw31415-20250303044100" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">05:00, 3 March 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd> <dd>It looks like the RfC was opened after one procedural opposer argued in an RfC about a specific article that they needed an RfC on the theory itself before discussing a specific source and thus the specific article. <a href="/wiki/User:Aaron_Liu" title="User:Aaron Liu">Aaron Liu</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Aaron_Liu#top" title="User talk:Aaron Liu">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Aaron_Liu-20250303053800-Dw31415-20250303044100" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">05:38, 3 March 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></li></ul> <div style="padding-left: 1.6em; font-style: italic; border-top: 1px solid #a2a9b1; margin: 0.5em 0; padding-top: 0.5em">The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.</div> </div><div style="clear:both;" class=""></div> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Appealing_my_I-ban" data-mw-thread-id="h-Appealing_my_I-ban-20250303064300">Appealing my I-ban</h2>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard&action=edit&section=67" title="Edit section: Appealing my I-ban">edit</a>]<div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1250141580" /><div class="boilerplate archived archive-top mw-archivedtalk" style=""><link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1235681985" /><div class="side-box metadata side-box-right archive-top-result" style="padding: 10px; line-height: inherit;"> <div class="side-box-flex"> <div class="side-box-text" style="padding: 0;">@<a href="/wiki/User:DoctorWhoFan91" title="User:DoctorWhoFan91">DoctorWhoFan91</a>: I'm going to do you a favor and close this thread before it starts in earnest, because it is not going to go anywhere good for you. Nil Einne has given you some very good advice here. I suggest you heed it. You have a choice: learn to edit in the topic area while following your IBAN, don't edit in the topic area, or violate the IBAN and get blocked. I suggest picking one of the first two options. I'll also note that <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:BANEX" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:BANEX">WP:BANEX</a> is not an absolute entitlement to complain about someone you're IBANned from just because you say you're appealing; if you continue to use the appeal process as a way to criticize Alex, someone is likely to find that to be <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:GAME" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:GAME">gaming the system</a> and block you for violating the ban. -- <a href="/wiki/User:Tamzin" title="User:Tamzin">Tamzin</a>[<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Tamzin" title="User talk:Tamzin">cetacean needed</a>] (<a href="/wiki/User:Tamzin/%F0%9F%A4%B7" class="mw-redirect" title="User:Tamzin/🤷">they|xe|🤷</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Tamzin-20250303085000-Appealing_my_I-ban" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">08:50, 3 March 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</div></div> </div> <div class="boilerplate-header" style="margin-left: 1.6em; font-style: italic;"> The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion. </div> <hr /> I have an voluntary 1 way IBAN with <a href="/wiki/User:Alex_21" title="User:Alex 21">Alex 21</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Alex_21" title="User talk:Alex 21">talk</a> · <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Alex_21" title="Special:Contributions/Alex 21">contribs</a> · <a href="/wiki/Special:DeletedContributions/Alex_21" title="Special:DeletedContributions/Alex 21">deleted contribs</a> · <a href="/wiki/Special:Log/Alex_21" title="Special:Log/Alex 21">logs</a> · <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3AAbuseLog&wpSearchUser=Alex+21">filter log</a> · <a href="/wiki/Special:Block/Alex_21" title="Special:Block/Alex 21">block user</a> · <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3ALog%2Fblock&page=User%3AAlex+21">block log</a>) per <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/IncidentArchive1179#Continuous_arguements" title="Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/IncidentArchive1179">ANI here</a> and <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Archive368#Query_to_admins" title="Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Archive368">AN here</a>. Recently on <a href="/wiki/Doctor_Who_series_15" title="Doctor Who series 15">Doctor Who series 15</a> there was a flurry of activity and Alex added an unneccesary note to the table. As it was in a flurry of edits, I [<a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Doctor_Who_series_15&diff=prev&oldid=1277811985">undid it</a>] without seeing the username of the editor. Alex then [<a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Doctor_Who_series_15&diff=prev&oldid=127782180">reverted it</a>] citing my iban, so I [<a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Doctor_Who_series_15&diff=prev&oldid=1277971844">asked</a>] at the talk page whether the note was necessary, as similar articles do not have it. Alex [<a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Alex_21&diff=prev&oldid=1277974034">reported</a>] this action of mine, so I [<a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Doctor_Who_series_15&diff=next&oldid=1277971844">clarified</a>] my intentions on the next edit to the talk page. I [<a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Doctor_Who_series_15&diff=prev&oldid=1278502915">moved</a>] the location of the note yesterday, given that moving isn't reverting and the text of it is still on the article, though Alex[<a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Alex_21&diff=prev&oldid=1278513730">disagreed</a>]. This all was <a href="/wiki/User_talk:DoctorWhoFan91#IBan" title="User talk:DoctorWhoFan91">considered</a> as me having a discussion with him by an admin and as a definite IBan violation. As this seems too restrictive to me, that I can't ask questions regarding what even Alex must know is an incorrect edit (seeing that it was not added to this article before, though by the same logic it should, nor on <a href="/wiki/Doctor_Who_2023_specials" class="mw-redirect" title="Doctor Who 2023 specials">Doctor Who 2023 specials</a> or any WP:TV article in a similar situation), I have come to appeal the IBAN, as Alex is usually the one who makes the drafts for new Doctor Who episodes first, and I feel like any edit on these pages could be brought up as a violation, regardless of how correct it might be. Seeing that the situation may once again become like that before the Iban, I also wanted to ask if in the case I take the editor to ANI again, would it be considered correct to inform <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:DRWHO" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:DRWHO">WP:DRWHO</a>, or would that be considered canvassing. <a href="/wiki/User:DoctorWhoFan91" title="User:DoctorWhoFan91">DWF91</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:DoctorWhoFan91#top" title="User talk:DoctorWhoFan91">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-DoctorWhoFan91-20250303064300-Appealing_my_I-ban" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">06:43, 3 March 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>TL;DR, I strongly suggest you drop this since the more likely result is some sort of expanded sanction rather than a removal of the iban. For more detail, when you have an iban, it's sort of your responsibility to ensure you're not reverting the editor you had an iban with especially if it's a very recent edit so should be obvious. But even if we excuse the first edit as an honest mistake, this doesn't explain your continued violations after it was pointed out to you. You agreed to an iban less than a month ago and you should have learnt then what it entailed or at least in the followup AN where it was explained to you. But even if we also excuse you for still not understanding what the iban means for your editing, once you were called out rather than making all those other obvious iban violations, you should have been seeking further guidance on what your iban means since you were confused. Finally from my brief look at the original discussion it seems like a big part of the problem was that you were always so convinced that you're right and Alex 21 was completely wrong, that you started to lash out. While perhaps you didn't really lash out here earlier, your statement here that "Alex must know is an incorrect edit" is highly problematic. You're effectively accusing Alex 21 of vandalism. And I see zero reason why you should think that. I haven't even looked at the precise edit but it seems obvious from your description it's a fairly run of the mill content dispute. While similar articles often follow similar patterns, there can be various reasons why they may diverge in particular ways. Alex 21 might feel that applies here or maybe they just disagree with the normal pattern. Or perhaps they're just genuinely confused about something like what's normally done, why it was and wasn't done in some way etc. The question over what to do in this particular case would normally be resolved by discussion, whether with the two of you and anyone else who joined or perhaps seeking some sort of <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution" title="Wikipedia:Dispute resolution">WP:Dispute resolution</a>; without edit warring and without editors lashing out, and with each editor <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:AGF" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:AGF">assuming the other one is trying to better Wikipedia</a> but they just disagree on what is the best. In this case, you cannot be part of that discussion, so you'll have to leave it to others. But your statement makes me think that it's not a bad thing you're excluded since you're assuming for no apparent reason that the editor is trying to harm Wikipedia which means you're contributions to the discussion are likely to end up unproductive. Generally every editor should be able to accept they're wrong and should be very careful against convincing themselves too much that they're surely right or the other editor is surely wrong. <a href="/wiki/User:Nil_Einne" title="User:Nil Einne">Nil Einne</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Nil_Einne" title="User talk:Nil Einne">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Nil_Einne-20250303080300-DoctorWhoFan91-20250303064300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">08:03, 3 March 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>(<a href="/wiki/Help:Edit_conflict" title="Help:Edit conflict">edit conflict</a>) Also just for clarity a lot of the time no one is clearly wrong or right. Editors might reasonably disagree on how to handle something and might never agree. The main thing is they need to be willing to discuss and accept when consensus is against them. And learn if consensus is generally against them and adapt their editing so it's generally in line with consensus even when they disagree with said consensus. Them continuing to disagree with consensus isn't harmful or wrong, provided it doesn't make them edit in harmful ways. <a href="/wiki/User:Nil_Einne" title="User:Nil Einne">Nil Einne</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Nil_Einne" title="User talk:Nil Einne">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Nil_Einne-20250303081300-Nil_Einne-20250303080300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">08:13, 3 March 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>We aren't disagreeing, he is wrong- I can create another ANI discussion to prove that if necessary. <a href="/wiki/User:DoctorWhoFan91" title="User:DoctorWhoFan91">DWF91</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:DoctorWhoFan91#top" title="User talk:DoctorWhoFan91">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-DoctorWhoFan91-20250303082400-Nil_Einne-20250303081300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">08:24, 3 March 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Also, if you don't want to read how the situation arose, don't reply with generic stuff like "most of the time, no one is wrong", and "you have to believe that you can be wrong too": I came here to see a conflict solved, not to hear people paraphrase "dispute resolution" and AGF and editor conduct policies and etc etc. <a href="/wiki/User:DoctorWhoFan91" title="User:DoctorWhoFan91">DWF91</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:DoctorWhoFan91#top" title="User talk:DoctorWhoFan91">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-DoctorWhoFan91-20250303083600-DoctorWhoFan91-20250303082400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">08:36, 3 March 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd> <dd>As the editor DWF91 voluntarily requested an IBAN against, I would request to see it maintained. The timeline leading to this discussion occurs: <ul><li><a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Doctor_Who_series_15&diff=prev&oldid=1277810756">This</a> edit of mine, reverted by DWF91 during their IBAN <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Doctor_Who_series_15&diff=prev&oldid=1277811985">here</a>, was not an "accidental" revert, it was a manual revert of the exact same content, just note the note they are claiming, but the reference as well, violating <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:IBAN" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:IBAN">WP:IBAN</a> #5. This can be seen <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Doctor+Who+series+15&date-range-to=2025-02-26&tagfilter=&action=history&limit=5">here</a>, in that the byte size difference between the ideas is identical.</li> <li>They then started a discussion <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Doctor_Who_series_15&diff=cur&oldid=1277043173">here</a>, asking another editor to revert it, and directed referred to the IBAN <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Doctor_Who_series_15&diff=cur&oldid=1277971844">here</a>.</li> <li>A further direct modification of my edit occurred <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Doctor_Who_series_15&diff=prev&oldid=1278502915">here</a>, this time being directly aware of the content.</li> <li>When I brought this to the enforcing admin <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Liz&diff=prev&oldid=1278513933">here</a>, the editor <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:DoctorWhoFan91&diff=prev&oldid=1278557000">here</a> stated <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1248585704" /><q class="inline-quote-talk">the other editor's words aren't gospel</q>, thus requesting them to disregard my comments despite having provided the above diffs to the admin <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk%3AAlex_21&diff=1277995182&oldid=1277719498">here</a>.</li></ul></dd> <dd>Looking at the above request, <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1248585704" /><q class="inline-quote-talk">As this seems too restrictive to me, that I can't ask questions regarding what even Alex must know is an incorrect edit</q>, this indicate that they are very much observing my edits, and requesting it be removed so that they can continue to directly revert my edits.</dd> <dd>The line <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1248585704" /><q class="inline-quote-talk">Seeing that the situation may once again become like that before the Iban, I also wanted to ask if in the case I take the editor to ANI again</q>, again, this shows that they are requesting it be lifted solely to escalate the situation once more. This is why I request it be maintained, to prevent dragging this apparent situation through the mud even further. -- <a href="/wiki/User:Alex_21" title="User:Alex 21">Alex_21</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Alex_21" title="User talk:Alex 21">TALK</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Alex_21-20250303081100-DoctorWhoFan91-20250303064300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">08:11, 3 March 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd><ul><li>I said I didn't see the username, not that I pressed "undo"</li> <li>I brought attention to the content of the page, which I saw you had an issue with (I look into the edits of all WP:DRWHO contributors now and then, to see if I had missed any AfD or FfD or talk page discussions etc, so I saw that), so I clarified it, for an admin to see</li> <li>Iban doesn't say I can't modify an article just bcs you edited that part of it.</li> <li>The "gospel" part is to you calling the moving of the note as "reverting"</li> <li>Have you not read any other part of the paragraph, or have you forgotten what context is? Such editing coflicts would arise any time a season airs, and this is a more restrictive reading of the iban then I inferred it to be</li> <li>I am not trying to escalate the situation, I am asking in the case "if" the situation becomes like that again. <a href="/wiki/User:DoctorWhoFan91" title="User:DoctorWhoFan91">DWF91</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:DoctorWhoFan91#top" title="User talk:DoctorWhoFan91">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-DoctorWhoFan91-20250303083200-Alex_21-20250303081100" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">08:32, 3 March 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd><link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1248585704" /><q class="inline-quote-talk">I said I didn't see the username, not that I pressed "undo"</q> - You directly reverted the exact edit, note and further content, via undo or any other means. See IBAN #5.</dd> <dd><link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1248585704" /><q class="inline-quote-talk">Such editing coflicts would arise any time a season airs, and this is a more restrictive reading of the iban then I inferred it to be</q> - Then you should have read IBAN more clearly before requesting one. There is no conflict, there is directly reverting an edit.</dd> <dd><link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1248585704" /><q class="inline-quote-talk">We aren't disagreeing, he is wrong</q> - This is just confrontational, that continues to be the issue behind this IBAN.</dd> <dd><link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1248585704" /><q class="inline-quote-talk">seeing that it was not added to this article before, though by the same logic it should, nor on Doctor Who 2023 specials or any WP:TV article in a similar situation</q> - The fact that a note like this might not exist on another article is not a reason to never include the edit. Doctor Who is also the only WP:TV article to use story number rather than overall episode number, but I don't see that being an issue. However, that actually remains wrong. As of this moment, <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?search=insource%3A%22Episode+list%22+insource%3A%22airdateR%22+insource%3A%22efn%22+insource%3A%22airdateR.*%3Fefn%22&title=Special%3ASearch&profile=advanced&fulltext=1&ns0=1">111 articles</a> use a note in the airdate column, including notes to airtimes in different timezones, such as the article <a href="/wiki/Chernobyl_(miniseries)" title="Chernobyl (miniseries)">Chernobyl (miniseries)</a> (I could find more, but it not being in "any WP:TV article" is simply incorrect.</dd> <dd>Furthermore...</dd> <dd>The editor tried to cheat the system at <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Files_for_discussion/2025_February_7" title="Wikipedia:Files for discussion/2025 February 7">Wikipedia:Files for discussion/2025 February 7</a>, where I responded <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Files_for_discussion/2025_February_7&diff=prev&oldid=1275591576">here</a> concerning a direct policy, and the editor above replied <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Files_for_discussion/2025_February_7&diff=prev&oldid=1275664709">here</a>, very clearly replying to my comment, but keeping the indentation away from appearing to reply to me. This request to remove the IBAN simply stems from a desire to be allowed to be confrontational with me, which is why it was implemented in the first place. Another editor has already suggested they drop the issue, but instead they continue to argue and dismiss their response as "generic". -- <a href="/wiki/User:Alex_21" title="User:Alex 21">Alex_21</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Alex_21" title="User talk:Alex 21">TALK</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Alex_21-20250303084800-DoctorWhoFan91-20250303083200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">08:48, 3 March 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></li></ul></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div style="padding-left: 1.6em; font-style: italic; border-top: 1px solid #a2a9b1; margin: 0.5em 0; padding-top: 0.5em">The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.</div> </div><div style="clear:both;" class=""></div> <dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><ul><li><dl><dd>that is also in separate dates, but whatever, keep manipulating and lying and acting obtuse until someone finally actually have had enough. <a href="/wiki/User:DoctorWhoFan91" title="User:DoctorWhoFan91">DWF91</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:DoctorWhoFan91#top" title="User talk:DoctorWhoFan91">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-DoctorWhoFan91-20250303090900-Appealing_my_I-ban" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">09:09, 3 March 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></li></ul></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> I disagree with the closing statement of Nil's advice being good, but I will try to do as has been said in the statement. <a href="/wiki/User:DoctorWhoFan91" title="User:DoctorWhoFan91">DWF91</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:DoctorWhoFan91#top" title="User talk:DoctorWhoFan91">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-DoctorWhoFan91-20250303090900-Appealing_my_I-ban-1" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">09:09, 3 March 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Don't add posts inside the closed thread. I have moved your post out of that portion of the thread. Since you insist on keeping this thread going, here's my take: <ul><li>It's a bad idea to keep this going when the closing admin has already told you that it's being closed <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1248585704" /><q class="inline-quote-talk">because it is not going to go anywhere good for you</q> and that the closing admin thinks the initial response you got of <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1248585704" /><q class="inline-quote-talk">I strongly suggest you drop this since the more likely result is some sort of expanded sanction rather than a removal of the iban.</q> is good advice.</li> <li>It's a really bad idea to continue this by violating your one-way Iban by making the personal attacks <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1248585704" /><q class="inline-quote-talk">manipulating and lying and acting obtuse</q> on the subject of your Iban.</li></ul></dd> <dd>Since DoctorWhoFan91 has refused to <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:DROPTHESTICK" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:DROPTHESTICK">WP:DROPTHESTICK</a>, and has doubled down by egregiously violating their Iban with personal attacks I suggest that a block is in order. <a href="/wiki/User:Meters" title="User:Meters">Meters</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Meters" title="User talk:Meters">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Meters-20250303095000-DoctorWhoFan91-20250303090900" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">09:50, 3 March 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>I was just replying to what he said just before the thread closed, I wasn't trying to keep it going; my reply was factual.</dd> <dd>On what basis are you suggesting a block, is this "general editor's suggestion noticeboard"? <a href="/wiki/User:DoctorWhoFan91" title="User:DoctorWhoFan91">DWF91</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:DoctorWhoFan91#top" title="User talk:DoctorWhoFan91">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-DoctorWhoFan91-20250303104400-Meters-20250303095000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">10:44, 3 March 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>You were not <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1248585704" /><q class="inline-quote-talk">just replying to what he said</q>. The thread had ben closed, and you have a one-way Iban with them so you should not be replying to them at all, let alone by adding a blatant personal attack.</dd> <dd>More than one person has told you to drop this. You were explicitly told that this was being closed before you could get into more trouble. What does it take? <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:DROPTHESTICK" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:DROPTHESTICK">WP:DROPTHESTICK</a>. Do yourself a favour and do not reply again. <a href="/wiki/User:Meters" title="User:Meters">Meters</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Meters" title="User talk:Meters">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Meters-20250303110400-DoctorWhoFan91-20250303104400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">11:04, 3 March 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd> <dd>I don't think we're at a point where that would be beneficial. My understanding is DWF91 intends to adhere to the iban, and a block at this point wouldn't be helping anybody. <a href="/wiki/User:Hey_man_im_josh" title="User:Hey man im josh">Hey man im josh</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Hey_man_im_josh" title="User talk:Hey man im josh">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Hey_man_im_josh-20250303141300-Meters-20250303095000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">14:13, 3 March 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd> <dd>I concur with [nil Hey man im josh]]. Blocking DWF91 would shortsightedly deprive the project of an editor with a positive history of improvement and collaboration beyond this issue. Removing the IBAN, though, likely causes another ANI thread down the line—future positive collaborations between the two does not seem likely at this point. DWF91 should work within the restrictions created by it across the topic area both editors share, exercising caution when selecting battles to pick (or hills to die on, as sentiment has been across the 2 historic threads). — <a href="/wiki/User:ImaginesTigers" title="User:ImaginesTigers">ImaginesTigers</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:ImaginesTigers" title="User talk:ImaginesTigers">talk</a>∙<a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/ImaginesTigers" title="Special:Contributions/ImaginesTigers">contribs</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-ImaginesTigers-20250303155100-Meters-20250303095000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:51, 3 March 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Is_SPI_overwhelmed?" data-mw-thread-id="h-Is_SPI_overwhelmed?-20250303112500">Is SPI overwhelmed?</h2>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard&action=edit&section=68" title="Edit section: Is SPI overwhelmed?">edit</a>]<div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> Is SPI overwhelmed? Two consecutive reports at <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Sockpuppet_investigations/Loveforwiki" title="Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Loveforwiki">Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Loveforwiki</a> are languishing with CU requested on 17 February and 23 February, with no response other than the usual "An SPI clerk will shortly look at the case and endorse or decline the request". Are these normal waits? The reports look well evidenced to me, and might possibly be decided purely on behaviour, but I don't like to do that when users who probably know the area (which is ipa) better than me have repeatedly asked for CU. <a href="/wiki/User:Bishonen" title="User:Bishonen">Bishonen</a> | <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Bishonen" title="User talk:Bishonen">tålk</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Bishonen-20250303112500-Is_SPI_overwhelmed?" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">11:25, 3 March 2025 (UTC)</a>.[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>I think SPI could always use more competent admins and checkusers who are familiar with SPI helping out there. Reduced wait times would certainly be an improvement. <a href="/wiki/User:Hey_man_im_josh" title="User:Hey man im josh">Hey man im josh</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Hey_man_im_josh" title="User talk:Hey man im josh">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Hey_man_im_josh-20250303140800-Bishonen-20250303112500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">14:08, 3 March 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>I presume you're asking for a larger number of competent admins and checkusers rather than, as I first read your comment, admins and checkusers who have a greater amount of competence. <a href="/wiki/User:Phil_Bridger" class="mw-redirect" title="User:Phil Bridger">Phil Bridger</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Phil_Bridger" title="User talk:Phil Bridger">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Phil_Bridger-20250303142400-Hey_man_im_josh-20250303140800" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">14:24, 3 March 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Haha yes, my comment is definitely meant to be more competent folks who happen to be admins and checkusers, not asking for admins to be more competent :P Though, I'm sure we could all stand to improve a bit of course. <a href="/wiki/User:Hey_man_im_josh" title="User:Hey man im josh">Hey man im josh</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Hey_man_im_josh" title="User talk:Hey man im josh">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Hey_man_im_josh-20250303172000-Phil_Bridger-20250303142400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:20, 3 March 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd></dl></dd> <dd><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Sockpuppet_investigations/Rubbaband_Mang" title="Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Rubbaband Mang">Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Rubbaband Mang</a>, which was initially opened on January 23, has been sitting untouched since requested diffs were provided on February 5. I'd say yes, SPI has quite a bit of a backlog. <a href="/wiki/User:The_Kip" title="User:The Kip">The</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:The_Kip" title="User talk:The Kip">Kip</a> (<a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/The_Kip" title="Special:Contributions/The Kip">contribs</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-The_Kip-20250303165300-Bishonen-20250303112500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:53, 3 March 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd><dl><dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:The_Kip" title="User:The Kip">The Kip</a>: You might try pinging <a href="/wiki/User:Izno" title="User:Izno">Izno</a>.--<a href="/wiki/User:Bbb23" title="User:Bbb23">Bbb23</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Bbb23" title="User talk:Bbb23">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Bbb23-20250303172600-The_Kip-20250303165300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:26, 3 March 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Fair point. <a href="/wiki/User:The_Kip" title="User:The Kip">The</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:The_Kip" title="User talk:The Kip">Kip</a> (<a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/The_Kip" title="Special:Contributions/The Kip">contribs</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-The_Kip-20250303172700-Bbb23-20250303172600" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:27, 3 March 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>I have a user talk page discussion that I need to respond to before I return to SPI. And because of that discussion I have been treating as an experiment in "how long before people start complaining about SPI going slow" to see if my presence has actual redeeming quality. :') <a href="/wiki/User:Izno" title="User:Izno">Izno</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Izno" title="User talk:Izno">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Izno-20250303180100-The_Kip-20250303172700" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:01, 3 March 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd> <dd>Separately, if the investigation is in "Open", that means that anyone can take a look at it. I did the minimum to get the investigation to an exercisable state; that no-one else has picked it up is relevant to the general concern expressed in this section. <a href="/wiki/User:Izno" title="User:Izno">Izno</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Izno" title="User talk:Izno">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Izno-20250303180300-The_Kip-20250303172700" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:03, 3 March 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>I thought of that possibility, <a href="/wiki/User:Izno" title="User:Izno">Izno</a>, and it makes total sense. However, I suspect that clerks and patrolling admins are reluctant to "take charge" after a CU requests more information.--<a href="/wiki/User:Bbb23" title="User:Bbb23">Bbb23</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Bbb23" title="User talk:Bbb23">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Bbb23-20250303180800-Izno-20250303180300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:08, 3 March 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>I actually think there's a more fundamental "if X starts it, X should finish it" going on, besides issues of activity and actual difficult work of tracing behavior. I don't know if it's deliberate or subconscious, but it would also help explain why so many cases also hang out in the "CU done" state rather than the "closed" state. Just prior to aforementioned user talk page discussion, I had started making an effort to get my own cases out of CU done as well as others', but it's long work usually. <a href="/wiki/User:Izno" title="User:Izno">Izno</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Izno" title="User talk:Izno">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Izno-20250303181400-Bbb23-20250303180800" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:14, 3 March 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd> <dd>Do CU's need to be an admin? <a href="/wiki/User:Knitsey" title="User:Knitsey">Knitsey</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Knitsey" title="User talk:Knitsey">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Knitsey-20250303170100-The_Kip-20250303165300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:01, 3 March 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>IIRC, technically no, but in practice, thank god, yes.--<a href="/wiki/User:Bbb23" title="User:Bbb23">Bbb23</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Bbb23" title="User talk:Bbb23">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Bbb23-20250303171600-Knitsey-20250303170100" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:16, 3 March 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>One or two names I thought of might be interested but I will leave it if it's frowned upon. Thank you for the answer. <a href="/wiki/User:Knitsey" title="User:Knitsey">Knitsey</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Knitsey" title="User talk:Knitsey">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Knitsey-20250303171800-Bbb23-20250303171600" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:18, 3 March 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd> <dd>Yeah I think Bbb23 is correct. Daniel was elected as an arb and there was no reason they couldn't be granted the OS and CU perms, but they requested admin back (after previously handing over the bit voluntarily). <a href="/wiki/User:Hey_man_im_josh" title="User:Hey man im josh">Hey man im josh</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Hey_man_im_josh" title="User talk:Hey man im josh">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Hey_man_im_josh-20250303172100-Bbb23-20250303171600" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:21, 3 March 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd> <dd>To expand marginally, the last time ArbCom put a non-admin up for CU appointment feedback, there was a generally negative community response. Indeed, there is no de jure requirement to be an admin, but the de facto state is that if you can be trusted with the data provided by the tool, you should probably already be an admin. <a href="/wiki/User:Izno" title="User:Izno">Izno</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Izno" title="User talk:Izno">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Izno-20250303180900-Bbb23-20250303171600" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:09, 3 March 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>That makes sense @<a href="/wiki/User:Izno" title="User:Izno">Izno</a>, a couple of names that just failed to scrape through the 'mass' admin application I was going to suggest (to them first) if it was acceptable but as it isn't, then I am happy to leave it. Thanks everyone for explaining. <a href="/wiki/User:Knitsey" title="User:Knitsey">Knitsey</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Knitsey" title="User talk:Knitsey">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Knitsey-20250303181900-Izno-20250303180900" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:19, 3 March 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <ul><li>SPI is often backlogged, goes up and down, depending on how active CUs, clerks, and patrolling admins are, and there ain't much to be done about it. It's been this way for a very long time. One thing that could be better enforced, though - and I believe I've mentioned this before but it was largely ignored - is too many checks are requested without an explanation as to why they are needed.--<a href="/wiki/User:Bbb23" title="User:Bbb23">Bbb23</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Bbb23" title="User talk:Bbb23">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Bbb23-20250303171000-Bishonen-20250303112500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:10, 3 March 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Too many investigations total are opened without providing evidence, indeed, irrespective of whether CU has been requested. <a href="/wiki/User:Izno" title="User:Izno">Izno</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Izno" title="User talk:Izno">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Izno-20250303180200-Bbb23-20250303171000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:02, 3 March 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd> <dd>I agree with all of this and think "why a request is needed" is a place where if we had more clerks it would be helpful. Best, <a href="/wiki/User:Barkeep49" title="User:Barkeep49">Barkeep49</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Barkeep49" title="User talk:Barkeep49">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#c-Barkeep49-20250303180800-Bbb23-20250303171000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:08, 3 March 2025 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></li></ul>    </div><noscript><img src="https://login.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:CentralAutoLogin/start?useformat=desktop&type=1x1&usesul3=0" alt="" width="1" height="1" style="border: none; position: absolute;"></noscript> <div class="printfooter" data-nosnippet="">Retrieved from "<a dir="ltr" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard&oldid=1278641896">https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard&oldid=1278641896</a>"</div></div> <div id="catlinks" class="catlinks" data-mw="interface"><div id="mw-normal-catlinks" class="mw-normal-catlinks"><a href="/wiki/Help:Category" title="Help:Category">Category</a>: <ul><li><a href="/wiki/Category:Wikipedia_noticeboards" title="Category:Wikipedia noticeboards">Wikipedia noticeboards</a></li></ul></div><div id="mw-hidden-catlinks" class="mw-hidden-catlinks mw-hidden-cats-hidden">Hidden categories: <ul><li><a href="/wiki/Category:Noindexed_pages" title="Category:Noindexed pages">Noindexed pages</a></li><li><a href="/wiki/Category:Wikipedia_move-protected_project_pages" title="Category:Wikipedia move-protected project pages">Wikipedia move-protected project pages</a></li><li><a href="/wiki/Category:Non-talk_pages_that_are_automatically_signed" title="Category:Non-talk pages that are automatically signed">Non-talk pages that are automatically signed</a></li><li><a href="/wiki/Category:Pages_automatically_checked_for_incorrect_links" title="Category:Pages automatically checked for incorrect links">Pages automatically checked for incorrect links</a></li></ul></div></div> </div> </main> </div> <div class="mw-footer-container"> <footer id="footer" class="mw-footer" > <ul id="footer-info"> <li id="footer-info-lastmod"> This page was last edited on 3 March 2025, at 18:19 (UTC).</li> <li id="footer-info-copyright">Text is available under the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Text_of_the_Creative_Commons_Attribution-ShareAlike_4.0_International_License" title="Wikipedia:Text of the Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike 4.0 International License">Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike 4.0 License</a>; additional terms may apply. By using this site, you agree to the <a href="https://foundation.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:MyLanguage/Policy:Terms_of_Use" class="extiw" title="foundation:Special:MyLanguage/Policy:Terms of Use">Terms of Use</a> and <a href="https://foundation.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:MyLanguage/Policy:Privacy_policy" class="extiw" title="foundation:Special:MyLanguage/Policy:Privacy policy">Privacy Policy</a>. Wikipedia® is a registered trademark of the <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://wikimediafoundation.org/">Wikimedia Foundation, Inc.</a>, a non-profit organization.</li> </ul> <ul id="footer-places"> <li id="footer-places-privacy"><a href="https://foundation.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:MyLanguage/Policy:Privacy_policy">Privacy policy</a></li> <li id="footer-places-about"><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:About">About Wikipedia</a></li> <li id="footer-places-disclaimers"><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:General_disclaimer">Disclaimers</a></li> <li id="footer-places-contact"><a href="//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Contact_us">Contact Wikipedia</a></li> <li id="footer-places-wm-codeofconduct"><a href="https://foundation.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:MyLanguage/Policy:Universal_Code_of_Conduct">Code of Conduct</a></li> <li id="footer-places-developers"><a href="https://developer.wikimedia.org">Developers</a></li> <li id="footer-places-statslink"><a href="https://stats.wikimedia.org/#/en.wikipedia.org">Statistics</a></li> <li id="footer-places-cookiestatement"><a href="https://foundation.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:MyLanguage/Policy:Cookie_statement">Cookie statement</a></li> <li id="footer-places-mobileview"><a href="//en.m.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard&mobileaction=toggle_view_mobile" class="noprint stopMobileRedirectToggle">Mobile view</a></li> </ul> <ul id="footer-icons" class="noprint"> <li id="footer-copyrightico"><a href="https://wikimediafoundation.org/" class="cdx-button cdx-button--fake-button cdx-button--size-large cdx-button--fake-button--enabled"><picture><source media="(min-width: 500px)" srcset="/static/images/footer/wikimedia-button.svg" width="84" height="29"><img src="/static/images/footer/wikimedia.svg" width="25" height="25" alt="Wikimedia Foundation" lang="en" loading="lazy"></picture></a></li> <li id="footer-poweredbyico"><a href="https://www.mediawiki.org/" class="cdx-button cdx-button--fake-button cdx-button--size-large cdx-button--fake-button--enabled"><picture><source media="(min-width: 500px)" srcset="/w/resources/assets/poweredby_mediawiki.svg" width="88" height="31"><img src="/w/resources/assets/mediawiki_compact.svg" alt="Powered by MediaWiki" lang="en" width="25" height="25" loading="lazy"></picture></a></li> </ul> </footer> </div> </div> </div> <div class="vector-header-container vector-sticky-header-container"> <div id="vector-sticky-header" class="vector-sticky-header"> <div class="vector-sticky-header-start"> <div class="vector-sticky-header-icon-start vector-button-flush-left vector-button-flush-right" aria-hidden="true"> <button class="cdx-button cdx-button--weight-quiet cdx-button--icon-only vector-sticky-header-search-toggle" tabindex="-1" data-event-name="ui.vector-sticky-search-form.icon"> Search </button> </div> <div role="search" class="vector-search-box-vue vector-search-box-show-thumbnail vector-search-box"> <div class="vector-typeahead-search-container"> <div class="cdx-typeahead-search cdx-typeahead-search--show-thumbnail"> <form action="/w/index.php" id="vector-sticky-search-form" class="cdx-search-input cdx-search-input--has-end-button"> <div class="cdx-search-input__input-wrapper" data-search-loc="header-moved"> <div class="cdx-text-input cdx-text-input--has-start-icon"> <input class="cdx-text-input__input" type="search" name="search" placeholder="Search Wikipedia"> </div> <input type="hidden" name="title" value="Special:Search"> </div> <button class="cdx-button cdx-search-input__end-button">Search</button> </form> </div> </div> </div> <div class="vector-sticky-header-context-bar"> <nav aria-label="Contents" class="vector-toc-landmark"> <div id="vector-sticky-header-toc" class="vector-dropdown mw-portlet mw-portlet-sticky-header-toc vector-sticky-header-toc vector-button-flush-left" > <input type="checkbox" id="vector-sticky-header-toc-checkbox" role="button" aria-haspopup="true" data-event-name="ui.dropdown-vector-sticky-header-toc" class="vector-dropdown-checkbox " aria-label="Toggle the table of contents" > <label id="vector-sticky-header-toc-label" for="vector-sticky-header-toc-checkbox" class="vector-dropdown-label cdx-button cdx-button--fake-button cdx-button--fake-button--enabled cdx-button--weight-quiet cdx-button--icon-only " aria-hidden="true" > Toggle the table of contents </label> <div class="vector-dropdown-content"> <div id="vector-sticky-header-toc-unpinned-container" class="vector-unpinned-container"> </div> </div> </div> </nav> <div class="vector-sticky-header-context-bar-primary" aria-hidden="true" >Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard</div> </div> </div> <div class="vector-sticky-header-end" aria-hidden="true"> <div class="vector-sticky-header-icons"> <a href="#" class="cdx-button cdx-button--fake-button cdx-button--fake-button--enabled cdx-button--weight-quiet cdx-button--icon-only" id="ca-talk-sticky-header" tabindex="-1" data-event-name="talk-sticky-header"> </a> <a href="#" class="cdx-button cdx-button--fake-button cdx-button--fake-button--enabled cdx-button--weight-quiet cdx-button--icon-only" id="ca-subject-sticky-header" tabindex="-1" data-event-name="subject-sticky-header"> </a> <a href="#" class="cdx-button cdx-button--fake-button cdx-button--fake-button--enabled cdx-button--weight-quiet cdx-button--icon-only" id="ca-history-sticky-header" tabindex="-1" data-event-name="history-sticky-header"> </a> <a href="#" class="cdx-button cdx-button--fake-button cdx-button--fake-button--enabled cdx-button--weight-quiet cdx-button--icon-only mw-watchlink" id="ca-watchstar-sticky-header" tabindex="-1" data-event-name="watch-sticky-header"> </a> <a href="#" class="cdx-button cdx-button--fake-button cdx-button--fake-button--enabled cdx-button--weight-quiet cdx-button--icon-only" id="ca-edit-sticky-header" tabindex="-1" data-event-name="wikitext-edit-sticky-header"> </a> <a href="#" class="cdx-button cdx-button--fake-button cdx-button--fake-button--enabled cdx-button--weight-quiet cdx-button--icon-only" id="ca-ve-edit-sticky-header" tabindex="-1" data-event-name="ve-edit-sticky-header"> </a> <a href="#" class="cdx-button cdx-button--fake-button cdx-button--fake-button--enabled cdx-button--weight-quiet cdx-button--icon-only" id="ca-viewsource-sticky-header" tabindex="-1" data-event-name="ve-edit-protected-sticky-header"> </a> </div> <div class="vector-sticky-header-buttons"> <button class="cdx-button cdx-button--weight-quiet mw-interlanguage-selector" id="p-lang-btn-sticky-header" tabindex="-1" data-event-name="ui.dropdown-p-lang-btn-sticky-header"> 81 languages </button> <a href="#" class="cdx-button cdx-button--fake-button cdx-button--fake-button--enabled cdx-button--weight-quiet cdx-button--action-progressive" id="ca-addsection-sticky-header" tabindex="-1" data-event-name="addsection-sticky-header"> Add topic </a> </div> <div class="vector-sticky-header-icon-end"> <div class="vector-user-links"> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> <div class="mw-portlet mw-portlet-dock-bottom emptyPortlet" id="p-dock-bottom"> <ul> </ul> </div> <script>(RLQ=window.RLQ||[]).push(function(){mw.log.warn("This page is using the deprecated ResourceLoader module \"mediawiki.ui.button\".\n[1.41] Please use Codex. See migration guidelines: https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Codex/Migrating_from_MediaWiki_UI");mw.config.set({"wgHostname":"mw-web.codfw.main-7c4c86c76b-b5mkh","wgBackendResponseTime":516,"wgDiscussionToolsPageThreads":[{"headingLevel":2,"name":"h-","type":"heading","level":0,"id":"h-Open_tasks","replies":[]},{"headingLevel":2,"name":"h-Dev0745-20250213021300","type":"heading","level":0,"id":"h-Arbitration_enforcement_action_appeal_by_Dev0745-20250213021300","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250226233000","author":"The Bushranger","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-The_Bushranger-20250226233000-Arbitration_enforcement_action_appeal_by_Dev0745","replies":[]},{"timestamp":"20250213044600","author":"Tamzin","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Tamzin-20250213044600-Arbitration_enforcement_action_appeal_by_Dev0745","replies":[]},{"headingLevel":3,"name":"h-Dev0745-20250213021300","type":"heading","level":0,"id":"h-Statement_by_Dev0745-Arbitration_enforcement_action_appeal_by_Dev0745-20250213021300","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250213021300","author":"Dev0745","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Dev0745-20250213021300-Statement_by_Dev0745","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250215053400","author":"Dev0745","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Dev0745-20250215053400-Dev0745-20250213021300","replies":[]},{"timestamp":"20250217051700","author":"Dev0745","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Dev0745-20250217051700-Dev0745-20250213021300","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250218105700","author":"Dev0745","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Dev0745-20250218105700-Dev0745-20250217051700","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250220082500","author":"Dev0745","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Dev0745-20250220082500-Dev0745-20250218105700","replies":[]}]},{"timestamp":"20250225160300","author":"Dev0745","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Dev0745-20250225160300-Dev0745-20250217051700","replies":[]}]}]}]},{"headingLevel":3,"name":"h-Tamzin-20250213044600","type":"heading","level":0,"id":"h-Statement_by_Tamzin-Arbitration_enforcement_action_appeal_by_Dev0745-20250213044600","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250213044600","author":"Tamzin","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Tamzin-20250213044600-Statement_by_Tamzin","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250213044800","author":"Tamzin","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Tamzin-20250213044800-Tamzin-20250213044600","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250213071900","author":"Tamzin","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Tamzin-20250213071900-Tamzin-20250213044800","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250215051200","author":"Tamzin","type":"comment","level":5,"id":"c-Tamzin-20250215051200-Tamzin-20250213071900","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250223025900","author":"Tamzin","type":"comment","level":6,"id":"c-Tamzin-20250223025900-Tamzin-20250215051200","replies":[]}]}]}]}]}]},{"headingLevel":3,"name":"h-","type":"heading","level":0,"id":"h-Statement_by_(involved_editor_1)-Arbitration_enforcement_action_appeal_by_Dev0745","replies":[]},{"headingLevel":3,"name":"h-","type":"heading","level":0,"id":"h-Statement_by_(involved_editor_2)-Arbitration_enforcement_action_appeal_by_Dev0745","replies":[]},{"headingLevel":3,"name":"h-Liz-20250213071100","type":"heading","level":0,"id":"h-Discussion_among_uninvolved_editors_about_the_appeal_by_Dev0745-Arbitration_enforcement_action_appeal_by_Dev0745-20250213071100","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250213071100","author":"Liz","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Liz-20250213071100-Discussion_among_uninvolved_editors_about_the_appeal_by_Dev0745","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250215053900","author":"Liz","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Liz-20250215053900-Liz-20250213071100","replies":[]}]},{"timestamp":"20250216160700","author":"RegentsPark","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-RegentsPark-20250216160700-Discussion_among_uninvolved_editors_about_the_appeal_by_Dev0745","replies":[]},{"timestamp":"20250216200200","author":"Rsjaffe","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Rsjaffe-20250216200200-Discussion_among_uninvolved_editors_about_the_appeal_by_Dev0745","replies":[]},{"timestamp":"20250217123400","author":"Bonadea","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Bonadea-20250217123400-Discussion_among_uninvolved_editors_about_the_appeal_by_Dev0745","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250218162400","author":"Bonadea","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Bonadea-20250218162400-Bonadea-20250217123400","replies":[]}]},{"timestamp":"20250221043800","author":"Pppery","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Pppery-20250221043800-Discussion_among_uninvolved_editors_about_the_appeal_by_Dev0745","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250223030500","author":"Pppery","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Pppery-20250223030500-Pppery-20250221043800","replies":[],"displayName":"* Pppery *"}],"displayName":"* Pppery *"}]}]},{"headingLevel":2,"name":"h-Viennese_Waltz-20250219130400","type":"heading","level":0,"id":"h-Banned_user_posting_from_an_IP_address-20250219130400","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250225002600","author":"The Bushranger","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-The_Bushranger-20250225002600-Banned_user_posting_from_an_IP_address","replies":[]},{"timestamp":"20250219130400","author":"Viennese Waltz","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Viennese_Waltz-20250219130400-Banned_user_posting_from_an_IP_address","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250219155000","author":"Polygnotus","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Polygnotus-20250219155000-Viennese_Waltz-20250219130400","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250220093500","author":"Cullen328","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Cullen328-20250220093500-Polygnotus-20250219155000","replies":[]}]}]}]},{"headingLevel":2,"name":"h-Liz-20250220024100","type":"heading","level":0,"id":"h-Query_regarding_MAB-20250220024100","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250224195500","author":"Liz","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Liz-20250224195500-Query_regarding_MAB","replies":[]},{"timestamp":"20250220024100","author":"Liz","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Liz-20250220024100-Query_regarding_MAB","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250220024800","author":"Rosguill","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Rosguill-20250220024800-Liz-20250220024100","replies":[]},{"timestamp":"20250220025000","author":"Rsjaffe","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Rsjaffe-20250220025000-Liz-20250220024100","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250220033900","author":"Liz","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Liz-20250220033900-Rsjaffe-20250220025000","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250220034400","author":"Rsjaffe","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Rsjaffe-20250220034400-Liz-20250220033900","replies":[]},{"timestamp":"20250220040700","author":"Johnuniq","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Johnuniq-20250220040700-Liz-20250220033900","replies":[]},{"timestamp":"20250220041200","author":"Ratnahastin","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Ratnahastin-20250220041200-Liz-20250220033900","replies":[]}]},{"timestamp":"20250220034000","author":"Patient Zero","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Patient_Zero-20250220034000-Rsjaffe-20250220025000","replies":[]}]},{"timestamp":"20250220040100","author":"Johnuniq","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Johnuniq-20250220040100-Liz-20250220024100","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250220045000","author":"MolecularPilot","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-MolecularPilot-20250220045000-Johnuniq-20250220040100","replies":[]}]},{"timestamp":"20250220043000","author":"Zzuuzz","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Zzuuzz-20250220043000-Liz-20250220024100","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250220050600","author":"MolecularPilot","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-MolecularPilot-20250220050600-Zzuuzz-20250220043000","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250220053800","author":"MolecularPilot","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-MolecularPilot-20250220053800-MolecularPilot-20250220050600","replies":[]}]},{"timestamp":"20250220175800","author":"Liz","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Liz-20250220175800-Zzuuzz-20250220043000","replies":[]}]}]}]},{"headingLevel":2,"name":"h-Bogazicili-20250220161300","type":"heading","level":0,"id":"h-Request_for_review_of_RfC_closure_at_Talk:Genocide-20250220161300","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250220161300","author":"Bogazicili","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Bogazicili-20250220161300-Request_for_review_of_RfC_closure_at_Talk:Genocide","replies":[]},{"timestamp":"20250220170300","author":"Bogazicili","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Bogazicili-20250220170300-Request_for_review_of_RfC_closure_at_Talk:Genocide","replies":[]},{"headingLevel":3,"name":"h-AirshipJungleman29-20250228091500","type":"heading","level":0,"id":"h-Closer_(Genocide_RfC)-Request_for_review_of_RfC_closure_at_Talk:Genocide-20250228091500","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250228091500","author":"AirshipJungleman29","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-AirshipJungleman29-20250228091500-Closer_(Genocide_RfC)","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250228171400","author":"Vanamonde93","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Vanamonde93-20250228171400-AirshipJungleman29-20250228091500","replies":[]}],"displayName":"~~ AirshipJungleman29"}]},{"headingLevel":3,"name":"h-Szmenderowiecki-20250221030200","type":"heading","level":0,"id":"h-Non-Participants_(Genocide_RfC)-Request_for_review_of_RfC_closure_at_Talk:Genocide-20250221030200","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250221030200","author":"Szmenderowiecki","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Szmenderowiecki-20250221030200-Non-Participants_(Genocide_RfC)","replies":[]},{"timestamp":"20250221050000","author":"Cullen328","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Cullen328-20250221050000-Non-Participants_(Genocide_RfC)","replies":[]},{"timestamp":"20250222163900","author":"Vanamonde93","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Vanamonde93-20250222163900-Non-Participants_(Genocide_RfC)","replies":[]},{"timestamp":"20250225160100","author":"Isaidnoway","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Isaidnoway-20250225160100-Non-Participants_(Genocide_RfC)","replies":[]}]},{"headingLevel":3,"name":"h-","type":"heading","level":0,"id":"h-Participants_(Genocide_RfC)-Request_for_review_of_RfC_closure_at_Talk:Genocide","replies":[]},{"headingLevel":3,"name":"h-Liz-20250220184400","type":"heading","level":0,"id":"h-Discussion_(Genocide_RfC)-Request_for_review_of_RfC_closure_at_Talk:Genocide-20250220184400","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250220184400","author":"Liz","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Liz-20250220184400-Discussion_(Genocide_RfC)","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250220185400","author":"Bogazicili","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Bogazicili-20250220185400-Liz-20250220184400","replies":[]}]},{"timestamp":"20250222162300","author":"S Marshall","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-S_Marshall-20250222162300-Discussion_(Genocide_RfC)","replies":[],"displayName":"S Marshall"},{"timestamp":"20250224083100","author":"KhndzorUtogh","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-KhndzorUtogh-20250224083100-Discussion_(Genocide_RfC)","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250224152800","author":"Bogazicili","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Bogazicili-20250224152800-KhndzorUtogh-20250224083100","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250224160800","author":"KhndzorUtogh","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-KhndzorUtogh-20250224160800-Bogazicili-20250224152800","replies":[]}]}]},{"timestamp":"20250301163700","author":"Bogazicili","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Bogazicili-20250301163700-Discussion_(Genocide_RfC)","replies":[]}]},{"headingLevel":3,"name":"h-Bogazicili-20250225212600","type":"heading","level":0,"id":"h-Reopening_or_new_RfC-Request_for_review_of_RfC_closure_at_Talk:Genocide-20250225212600","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250225212600","author":"Bogazicili","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Bogazicili-20250225212600-Reopening_or_new_RfC","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250226143300","author":"Lepricavark","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Lepricavark-20250226143300-Bogazicili-20250225212600","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250226180900","author":"Bogazicili","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Bogazicili-20250226180900-Lepricavark-20250226143300","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250227022900","author":"Liz","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Liz-20250227022900-Bogazicili-20250226180900","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250227173700","author":"Bogazicili","type":"comment","level":5,"id":"c-Bogazicili-20250227173700-Liz-20250227022900","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250228005200","author":"Liz","type":"comment","level":6,"id":"c-Liz-20250228005200-Bogazicili-20250227173700","replies":[]}]}]}]}]}]}]}]},{"headingLevel":2,"name":"h-Cortador-20250221072400","type":"heading","level":0,"id":"h-RfC_closure_review_request_at_Talk:Republican_Party_(United_States)#Discussion_R-20250221072400","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250221072400","author":"Cortador","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Cortador-20250221072400-RfC_closure_review_request_at_Talk:Republican_Party_(United_States)#Discussion_R","replies":[]},{"headingLevel":3,"name":"h-Chetsford-20250221081100","type":"heading","level":0,"id":"h-Closer_(Republican_\"far-right\"_RfC)-RfC_closure_review_request_at_Talk:Republican_Party_(United_States)#Discussion_R-20250221081100","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250221081100","author":"Chetsford","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Chetsford-20250221081100-Closer_(Republican_\"far-right\"_RfC)","replies":[]}]},{"headingLevel":3,"name":"h-TurboSuperA+-20250221092100","type":"heading","level":0,"id":"h-Non-participants_(Republican_\"far-right\"_RfC)-RfC_closure_review_request_at_Talk:Republican_Party_(United_States)#Discussion_R-20250221092100","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250221092100","author":"TurboSuperA+","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-TurboSuperA+-20250221092100-Non-participants_(Republican_\"far-right\"_RfC)","replies":[]},{"timestamp":"20250222064000","author":"Graeme Bartlett","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Graeme_Bartlett-20250222064000-Non-participants_(Republican_\"far-right\"_RfC)","replies":[]},{"timestamp":"20250222065900","author":"Berchanhimez","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Berchanhimez-20250222065900-Non-participants_(Republican_\"far-right\"_RfC)","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250222075300","author":"Berchanhimez","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Berchanhimez-20250222075300-Berchanhimez-20250222065900","replies":[],"displayName":"me"}],"displayName":"me"},{"timestamp":"20250222093500","author":"S Marshall","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-S_Marshall-20250222093500-Non-participants_(Republican_\"far-right\"_RfC)","replies":[],"displayName":"S Marshall"},{"timestamp":"20250222170900","author":"Vanamonde93","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Vanamonde93-20250222170900-Non-participants_(Republican_\"far-right\"_RfC)","replies":[]},{"timestamp":"20250225221700","author":"Halbared","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Halbared-20250225221700-Non-participants_(Republican_\"far-right\"_RfC)","replies":[]},{"timestamp":"20250226230600","author":"JacktheBrown","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-JacktheBrown-20250226230600-Non-participants_(Republican_\"far-right\"_RfC)","replies":[]},{"timestamp":"20250227192100","author":"JoelleJay","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-JoelleJay-20250227192100-Non-participants_(Republican_\"far-right\"_RfC)","replies":[]},{"timestamp":"20250228184200","author":"Pharaoh of the Wizards","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Pharaoh_of_the_Wizards-20250228184200-Non-participants_(Republican_\"far-right\"_RfC)","replies":[]}]},{"headingLevel":3,"name":"h-Szmenderowiecki-20250221083300","type":"heading","level":0,"id":"h-Participants_(Republican_\"far-right\"_RfC)-RfC_closure_review_request_at_Talk:Republican_Party_(United_States)#Discussion_R-20250221083300","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250221083300","author":"Szmenderowiecki","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Szmenderowiecki-20250221083300-Participants_(Republican_\"far-right\"_RfC)","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250221103800","author":"Szmenderowiecki","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Szmenderowiecki-20250221103800-Szmenderowiecki-20250221083300","replies":[]}]},{"timestamp":"20250221145500","author":"Simonm223","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Simonm223-20250221145500-Participants_(Republican_\"far-right\"_RfC)","replies":[]},{"timestamp":"20250221174300","author":"Aquillion","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Aquillion-20250221174300-Participants_(Republican_\"far-right\"_RfC)","replies":[]},{"timestamp":"20250221201500","author":"Springee","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Springee-20250221201500-Participants_(Republican_\"far-right\"_RfC)","replies":[]},{"timestamp":"20250222044500","author":"Nemov","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Nemov-20250222044500-Participants_(Republican_\"far-right\"_RfC)","replies":[]},{"timestamp":"20250227172100","author":"Carlp941","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Carlp941-20250227172100-Participants_(Republican_\"far-right\"_RfC)","replies":[]}]},{"headingLevel":3,"name":"h-Cortador-20250221085800","type":"heading","level":0,"id":"h-Discussion_(Republican_\"far-right\"_RfC)-RfC_closure_review_request_at_Talk:Republican_Party_(United_States)#Discussion_R-20250221085800","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250221085800","author":"Cortador","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Cortador-20250221085800-Discussion_(Republican_\"far-right\"_RfC)","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250221091500","author":"Chetsford","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Chetsford-20250221091500-Cortador-20250221085800","replies":[]}]},{"timestamp":"20250221093300","author":"Cortador","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Cortador-20250221093300-Discussion_(Republican_\"far-right\"_RfC)","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250221094800","author":"Chetsford","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Chetsford-20250221094800-Cortador-20250221093300","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250221101700","author":"Cortador","type":"comment","level":5,"id":"c-Cortador-20250221101700-Chetsford-20250221094800","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250221172500","author":"Chetsford","type":"comment","level":6,"id":"c-Chetsford-20250221172500-Cortador-20250221101700","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250221190500","author":"Cortador","type":"comment","level":7,"id":"c-Cortador-20250221190500-Chetsford-20250221172500","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250221191000","author":"Chetsford","type":"comment","level":8,"id":"c-Chetsford-20250221191000-Cortador-20250221190500","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250221192700","author":"Cortador","type":"comment","level":9,"id":"c-Cortador-20250221192700-Chetsford-20250221191000","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250221202200","author":"Springee","type":"comment","level":10,"id":"c-Springee-20250221202200-Cortador-20250221192700","replies":[]}]}]}]}]}]}]},{"timestamp":"20250221202000","author":"Springee","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Springee-20250221202000-Cortador-20250221093300","replies":[]}]},{"timestamp":"20250221092800","author":"Chetsford","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Chetsford-20250221092800-Discussion_(Republican_\"far-right\"_RfC)","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250221150400","author":"Simonm223","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Simonm223-20250221150400-Chetsford-20250221092800","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250221151500","author":"Simonm223","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Simonm223-20250221151500-Simonm223-20250221150400","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250221172500","author":"Chetsford","type":"comment","level":6,"id":"c-Chetsford-20250221172500-Simonm223-20250221151500","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250221180600","author":"Simonm223","type":"comment","level":7,"id":"c-Simonm223-20250221180600-Chetsford-20250221172500","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250222131100","author":"Cortador","type":"comment","level":8,"id":"c-Cortador-20250222131100-Simonm223-20250221180600","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250226125800","author":"S Marshall","type":"comment","level":10,"id":"c-S_Marshall-20250226125800-Cortador-20250222131100","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250228213300","author":"Cortador","type":"comment","level":11,"id":"c-Cortador-20250228213300-S_Marshall-20250226125800","replies":[]}],"displayName":"S Marshall"}]}]}]}]}]}]}]}]},{"headingLevel":2,"name":"h-Soibangla-20250222052100","type":"heading","level":0,"id":"h-Kash_Patel_RfC-20250222052100","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250225002500","author":"The Bushranger","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-The_Bushranger-20250225002500-Kash_Patel_RfC","replies":[]},{"timestamp":"20250222052100","author":"Soibangla","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Soibangla-20250222052100-Kash_Patel_RfC","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250222072200","author":"WeatherWriter","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-WeatherWriter-20250222072200-Soibangla-20250222052100","replies":[],"displayName":"Weather Event Writer"}]},{"timestamp":"20250222081900","author":"Soibangla","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Soibangla-20250222081900-Kash_Patel_RfC","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250222083900","author":"WeatherWriter","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-WeatherWriter-20250222083900-Soibangla-20250222081900","replies":[],"displayName":"Weather Event Writer"},{"timestamp":"20250222084600","author":"Elli","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Elli-20250222084600-Soibangla-20250222081900","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250222113000","author":"CapnJackSp","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-CapnJackSp-20250222113000-Elli-20250222084600","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250222114300","author":"Soibangla","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Soibangla-20250222114300-CapnJackSp-20250222113000","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250222123300","author":"100.36.106.199","type":"comment","level":5,"id":"c-100.36.106.199-20250222123300-Soibangla-20250222114300","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250222211000","author":"Simonm223","type":"comment","level":6,"id":"c-Simonm223-20250222211000-100.36.106.199-20250222123300","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250222212500","author":"Simonm223","type":"comment","level":7,"id":"c-Simonm223-20250222212500-Simonm223-20250222211000","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250222214000","author":"ARandomName123","type":"comment","level":8,"id":"c-ARandomName123-20250222214000-Simonm223-20250222212500","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250222220500","author":"Simonm223","type":"comment","level":9,"id":"c-Simonm223-20250222220500-ARandomName123-20250222214000","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250222221100","author":"PackMecEng","type":"comment","level":10,"id":"c-PackMecEng-20250222221100-Simonm223-20250222220500","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250222221900","author":"Simonm223","type":"comment","level":11,"id":"c-Simonm223-20250222221900-PackMecEng-20250222221100","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250222222200","author":"PackMecEng","type":"comment","level":12,"id":"c-PackMecEng-20250222222200-Simonm223-20250222221900","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250222222900","author":"BootsED","type":"comment","level":13,"id":"c-BootsED-20250222222900-PackMecEng-20250222222200","replies":[]}]}]}]},{"timestamp":"20250222223800","author":"ARandomName123","type":"comment","level":10,"id":"c-ARandomName123-20250222223800-Simonm223-20250222220500","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250222230800","author":"Simonm223","type":"comment","level":11,"id":"c-Simonm223-20250222230800-ARandomName123-20250222223800","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250222232800","author":"ARandomName123","type":"comment","level":12,"id":"c-ARandomName123-20250222232800-Simonm223-20250222230800","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250222233800","author":"Simonm223","type":"comment","level":13,"id":"c-Simonm223-20250222233800-ARandomName123-20250222232800","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250222234600","author":"ARandomName123","type":"comment","level":14,"id":"c-ARandomName123-20250222234600-Simonm223-20250222233800","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250223014400","author":"Simonm223","type":"comment","level":15,"id":"c-Simonm223-20250223014400-ARandomName123-20250222234600","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250223015200","author":"PackMecEng","type":"comment","level":16,"id":"c-PackMecEng-20250223015200-Simonm223-20250223014400","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250223140300","author":"Simonm223","type":"comment","level":17,"id":"c-Simonm223-20250223140300-PackMecEng-20250223015200","replies":[]}]}]}]}]}]}]},{"timestamp":"20250222231500","author":"Cortador","type":"comment","level":11,"id":"c-Cortador-20250222231500-ARandomName123-20250222223800","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250222233200","author":"ARandomName123","type":"comment","level":12,"id":"c-ARandomName123-20250222233200-Cortador-20250222231500","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250223160200","author":"Cortador","type":"comment","level":13,"id":"c-Cortador-20250223160200-ARandomName123-20250222233200","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250223180000","author":"ARandomName123","type":"comment","level":14,"id":"c-ARandomName123-20250223180000-Cortador-20250223160200","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250223221000","author":"Simonm223","type":"comment","level":15,"id":"c-Simonm223-20250223221000-ARandomName123-20250223180000","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250223231800","author":"ARandomName123","type":"comment","level":16,"id":"c-ARandomName123-20250223231800-Simonm223-20250223221000","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250223232200","author":"Simonm223","type":"comment","level":17,"id":"c-Simonm223-20250223232200-ARandomName123-20250223231800","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250223232600","author":"ARandomName123","type":"comment","level":18,"id":"c-ARandomName123-20250223232600-Simonm223-20250223232200","replies":[]}]}]}]}]}]}]},{"timestamp":"20250223161500","author":"PackMecEng","type":"comment","level":12,"id":"c-PackMecEng-20250223161500-Cortador-20250222231500","replies":[]}]}]}]}]}]}]}]}]},{"timestamp":"20250224002400","author":"Liz","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Liz-20250224002400-CapnJackSp-20250222113000","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250224161500","author":"Szmenderowiecki","type":"comment","level":5,"id":"c-Szmenderowiecki-20250224161500-Liz-20250224002400","replies":[]}]}],"displayName":"Captain Jack Sparrow"}]}]}]},{"headingLevel":2,"name":"h-Significa_liberdade-20250223064900","type":"heading","level":0,"id":"h-Unban_request_from_Elpresidente360-20250223064900","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250223064900","author":"Significa liberdade","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Significa_liberdade-20250223064900-Unban_request_from_Elpresidente360","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250223114800","author":"Yamla","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Yamla-20250223114800-Significa_liberdade-20250223064900","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250223170600","author":"PhilKnight","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-PhilKnight-20250223170600-Yamla-20250223114800","replies":[]}]},{"timestamp":"20250223171400","author":"Yamla","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Yamla-20250223171400-Significa_liberdade-20250223064900","replies":[]},{"timestamp":"20250223184400","author":"Deepfriedokra","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Deepfriedokra-20250223184400-Significa_liberdade-20250223064900","replies":[],"displayName":"-- Deepfriedokra"},{"timestamp":"20250228225200","author":"The Bushranger","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-The_Bushranger-20250228225200-Significa_liberdade-20250223064900","replies":[]},{"timestamp":"20250301000900","author":"Jauerback","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Jauerback-20250301000900-Significa_liberdade-20250223064900","replies":[]}],"displayName":"Significa liberdade (she/her)"}]},{"headingLevel":2,"name":"h-Lincoln2020-20250223191200","type":"heading","level":0,"id":"h-Threats_and_ad-hominems_being_used_to_bully_editor-20250223191200","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250227021100","author":"Liz","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Liz-20250227021100-Threats_and_ad-hominems_being_used_to_bully_editor","replies":[]},{"timestamp":"20250223191200","author":"Lincoln2020","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Lincoln2020-20250223191200-Threats_and_ad-hominems_being_used_to_bully_editor","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250223192400","author":"Simonm223","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Simonm223-20250223192400-Lincoln2020-20250223191200","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250223193000","author":"Simonm223","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Simonm223-20250223193000-Simonm223-20250223192400","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250224160000","author":"Lincoln2020","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Lincoln2020-20250224160000-Simonm223-20250223193000","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250224160200","author":"Lincoln2020","type":"comment","level":5,"id":"c-Lincoln2020-20250224160200-Lincoln2020-20250224160000","replies":[]}]}]}]},{"timestamp":"20250223211000","author":"C809","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-C809-20250223211000-Lincoln2020-20250223191200","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250223214600","author":"Simonm223","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Simonm223-20250223214600-C809-20250223211000","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250223222800","author":"Liz","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Liz-20250223222800-Simonm223-20250223214600","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250223231200","author":"Simonm223","type":"comment","level":5,"id":"c-Simonm223-20250223231200-Liz-20250223222800","replies":[]},{"timestamp":"20250224154700","author":"Lincoln2020","type":"comment","level":5,"id":"c-Lincoln2020-20250224154700-Liz-20250223222800","replies":[]}]}]}],"displayName":"✏️ C809 ⌨️"},{"timestamp":"20250224015300","author":"Chess","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Chess-20250224015300-Lincoln2020-20250223191200","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250224023300","author":"Liz","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Liz-20250224023300-Chess-20250224015300","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250224023700","author":"Liz","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Liz-20250224023700-Liz-20250224023300","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250224031700","author":"Chess","type":"comment","level":5,"id":"c-Chess-20250224031700-Liz-20250224023700","replies":[]},{"timestamp":"20250224151800","author":"Kovcszaln6","type":"comment","level":5,"id":"c-Kovcszaln6-20250224151800-Liz-20250224023700","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250224160500","author":"Lincoln2020","type":"comment","level":6,"id":"c-Lincoln2020-20250224160500-Kovcszaln6-20250224151800","replies":[]}]},{"timestamp":"20250224155600","author":"Lincoln2020","type":"comment","level":5,"id":"c-Lincoln2020-20250224155600-Liz-20250224023700","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250225103700","author":"Super Goku V","type":"comment","level":6,"id":"c-Super_Goku_V-20250225103700-Lincoln2020-20250224155600","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250225141200","author":"Lincoln2020","type":"comment","level":7,"id":"c-Lincoln2020-20250225141200-Super_Goku_V-20250225103700","replies":[]}]}]}]},{"timestamp":"20250224042500","author":"Chess","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Chess-20250224042500-Liz-20250224023300","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250226025900","author":"Kelvintjy","type":"comment","level":5,"id":"c-Kelvintjy-20250226025900-Chess-20250224042500","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250226030900","author":"Aaron Liu","type":"comment","level":6,"id":"c-Aaron_Liu-20250226030900-Kelvintjy-20250226025900","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250226031700","author":"Liz","type":"comment","level":7,"id":"c-Liz-20250226031700-Aaron_Liu-20250226030900","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250226122900","author":"Aaron Liu","type":"comment","level":8,"id":"c-Aaron_Liu-20250226122900-Liz-20250226031700","replies":[]}]}]}]}]}]},{"timestamp":"20250225094800","author":"Super Goku V","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Super_Goku_V-20250225094800-Chess-20250224015300","replies":[]},{"timestamp":"20250225094800","author":"Super Goku V","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Super_Goku_V-20250225094800-Chess-20250224015300-1","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250225142200","author":"Lincoln2020","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Lincoln2020-20250225142200-Super_Goku_V-20250225094800","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250225145900","author":"Lincoln2020","type":"comment","level":5,"id":"c-Lincoln2020-20250225145900-Lincoln2020-20250225142200","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250226004100","author":"Super Goku V","type":"comment","level":6,"id":"c-Super_Goku_V-20250226004100-Lincoln2020-20250225145900","replies":[]}]}]},{"timestamp":"20250225175500","author":"Chess","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Chess-20250225175500-Super_Goku_V-20250225094800","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250225232400","author":"Super Goku V","type":"comment","level":5,"id":"c-Super_Goku_V-20250225232400-Chess-20250225175500","replies":[]}]}]}]},{"timestamp":"20250224041000","author":"Nil Einne","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Nil_Einne-20250224041000-Lincoln2020-20250223191200","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250224041900","author":"Nil Einne","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Nil_Einne-20250224041900-Nil_Einne-20250224041000","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250224083900","author":"Nil Einne","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Nil_Einne-20250224083900-Nil_Einne-20250224041900","replies":[]},{"timestamp":"20250225054700","author":"Super Goku V","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Super_Goku_V-20250225054700-Nil_Einne-20250224041900","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250225230200","author":"Nil Einne","type":"comment","level":5,"id":"c-Nil_Einne-20250225230200-Super_Goku_V-20250225054700","replies":[]}]}]}]},{"timestamp":"20250224050500","author":"Nil Einne","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Nil_Einne-20250224050500-Lincoln2020-20250223191200","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250224084100","author":"Nil Einne","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Nil_Einne-20250224084100-Nil_Einne-20250224050500","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250224112100","author":"Simonm223","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Simonm223-20250224112100-Nil_Einne-20250224084100","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250224121700","author":"Bishonen","type":"comment","level":5,"id":"c-Bishonen-20250224121700-Simonm223-20250224112100","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250224124700","author":"Simonm223","type":"comment","level":6,"id":"c-Simonm223-20250224124700-Bishonen-20250224121700","replies":[]}]}]}]},{"timestamp":"20250224151500","author":"Nil Einne","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Nil_Einne-20250224151500-Nil_Einne-20250224050500","replies":[]}]},{"timestamp":"20250226005200","author":"EvergreenFir","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-EvergreenFir-20250226005200-Lincoln2020-20250223191200","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250226010200","author":"Liz","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Liz-20250226010200-EvergreenFir-20250226005200","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250226012700","author":"Chess","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Chess-20250226012700-Liz-20250226010200","replies":[]},{"timestamp":"20250226151700","author":"Lincoln2020","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Lincoln2020-20250226151700-Liz-20250226010200","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250226154100","author":"Simonm223","type":"comment","level":5,"id":"c-Simonm223-20250226154100-Lincoln2020-20250226151700","replies":[]}]}]},{"timestamp":"20250226152200","author":"Lincoln2020","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Lincoln2020-20250226152200-EvergreenFir-20250226005200","replies":[]}]}]},{"timestamp":"20250227160600","author":"Rosguill","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Rosguill-20250227160600-Threats_and_ad-hominems_being_used_to_bully_editor","replies":[]}]},{"headingLevel":2,"name":"h-Toa_Nidhiki05-20250223235200","type":"heading","level":0,"id":"h-Arbitration_enforcement_action_appeal_by_Toa_Nidhiki05-20250223235200","replies":[{"headingLevel":3,"name":"h-Toa_Nidhiki05-20250223235200","type":"heading","level":0,"id":"h-Statement_by_Toa_Nidhiki05-Arbitration_enforcement_action_appeal_by_Toa_Nidhiki05-20250223235200","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250223235200","author":"Toa Nidhiki05","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Toa_Nidhiki05-20250223235200-Statement_by_Toa_Nidhiki05","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250224035800","author":"Toa Nidhiki05","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Toa_Nidhiki05-20250224035800-Toa_Nidhiki05-20250223235200","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250224043100","author":"Toa Nidhiki05","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Toa_Nidhiki05-20250224043100-Toa_Nidhiki05-20250224035800","replies":[],"displayName":"Toa"}],"displayName":"Toa"},{"timestamp":"20250224141400","author":"Toa Nidhiki05","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Toa_Nidhiki05-20250224141400-Toa_Nidhiki05-20250223235200","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250224223500","author":"Toa Nidhiki05","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Toa_Nidhiki05-20250224223500-Toa_Nidhiki05-20250224141400","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250301033200","author":"Toa Nidhiki05","type":"comment","level":5,"id":"c-Toa_Nidhiki05-20250301033200-Toa_Nidhiki05-20250224223500","replies":[],"displayName":"Toa"}],"displayName":"Toa"}],"displayName":"Toa"}],"displayName":"Toa"}]},{"headingLevel":3,"name":"h-Rosguill-20250224013300","type":"heading","level":0,"id":"h-Statement_by_Rosguill-Arbitration_enforcement_action_appeal_by_Toa_Nidhiki05-20250224013300","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250224013300","author":"Rosguill","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Rosguill-20250224013300-Statement_by_Rosguill","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250224013600","author":"Rosguill","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Rosguill-20250224013600-Rosguill-20250224013300","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250224213500","author":"Rosguill","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Rosguill-20250224213500-Rosguill-20250224013600","replies":[]}]}]}]},{"headingLevel":3,"name":"h-Barkeep49-20250224015900","type":"heading","level":0,"id":"h-Statement_by_Barkeep49-Arbitration_enforcement_action_appeal_by_Toa_Nidhiki05-20250224015900","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250224015900","author":"Barkeep49","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Barkeep49-20250224015900-Statement_by_Barkeep49","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250224033300","author":"Barkeep49","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Barkeep49-20250224033300-Barkeep49-20250224015900","replies":[]}]}]},{"headingLevel":3,"name":"h-Vanamonde93-20250224021700","type":"heading","level":0,"id":"h-Statement_by_Vanamonde-Arbitration_enforcement_action_appeal_by_Toa_Nidhiki05-20250224021700","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250224021700","author":"Vanamonde93","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Vanamonde93-20250224021700-Statement_by_Vanamonde","replies":[]}]},{"headingLevel":3,"name":"h-Guerillero-20250224105400","type":"heading","level":0,"id":"h-Statement_by_Guerillero-Arbitration_enforcement_action_appeal_by_Toa_Nidhiki05-20250224105400","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250224105400","author":"Guerillero","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Guerillero-20250224105400-Statement_by_Guerillero","replies":[]}]},{"headingLevel":3,"name":"h-Seraphimblade-20250224185800","type":"heading","level":0,"id":"h-Statement_by_Seraphimblade-Arbitration_enforcement_action_appeal_by_Toa_Nidhiki05-20250224185800","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250224185800","author":"Seraphimblade","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Seraphimblade-20250224185800-Statement_by_Seraphimblade","replies":[]}]},{"headingLevel":3,"name":"h-Cortador-20250225132300","type":"heading","level":0,"id":"h-Statement_by_Cortador-Arbitration_enforcement_action_appeal_by_Toa_Nidhiki05-20250225132300","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250225132300","author":"Cortador","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Cortador-20250225132300-Statement_by_Cortador","replies":[]}]},{"headingLevel":3,"name":"h-Jessintime-20250225165000","type":"heading","level":0,"id":"h-Statement_by_Jessintime-Arbitration_enforcement_action_appeal_by_Toa_Nidhiki05-20250225165000","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250225165000","author":"Jessintime","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Jessintime-20250225165000-Statement_by_Jessintime","replies":[]},{"timestamp":"20250301143200","author":"Jessintime","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Jessintime-20250301143200-Statement_by_Jessintime","replies":[]}]},{"headingLevel":3,"name":"h-BootsED-20250301034900","type":"heading","level":0,"id":"h-Statement_by_BootsED-Arbitration_enforcement_action_appeal_by_Toa_Nidhiki05-20250301034900","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250301034900","author":"BootsED","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-BootsED-20250301034900-Statement_by_BootsED","replies":[]}]},{"headingLevel":3,"name":"h-The_Four_Deuces-20250301192400","type":"heading","level":0,"id":"h-Statement_by_the_Four_Deuces-Arbitration_enforcement_action_appeal_by_Toa_Nidhiki05-20250301192400","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250301192400","author":"The Four Deuces","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-The_Four_Deuces-20250301192400-Statement_by_the_Four_Deuces","replies":[],"displayName":"TFD"}]},{"headingLevel":3,"name":"h-Chess-20250224062900","type":"heading","level":0,"id":"h-Discussion_among_uninvolved_editors_about_the_appeal_by_Toa_Nidhiki05-Arbitration_enforcement_action_appeal_by_Toa_Nidhiki05-20250224062900","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250224062900","author":"Chess","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Chess-20250224062900-Discussion_among_uninvolved_editors_about_the_appeal_by_Toa_Nidhiki05","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250224212400","author":"Chess","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Chess-20250224212400-Chess-20250224062900","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250301025400","author":"Chess","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Chess-20250301025400-Chess-20250224212400","replies":[]}]}]},{"timestamp":"20250224183900","author":"Rja13ww33","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Rja13ww33-20250224183900-Discussion_among_uninvolved_editors_about_the_appeal_by_Toa_Nidhiki05","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250224203500","author":"Chess","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Chess-20250224203500-Rja13ww33-20250224183900","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250224212200","author":"Rja13ww33","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Rja13ww33-20250224212200-Chess-20250224203500","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250227023600","author":"Chess","type":"comment","level":5,"id":"c-Chess-20250227023600-Rja13ww33-20250224212200","replies":[]}]}]},{"timestamp":"20250224211200","author":"Nil Einne","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Nil_Einne-20250224211200-Rja13ww33-20250224183900","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250224212400","author":"Rja13ww33","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Rja13ww33-20250224212400-Nil_Einne-20250224211200","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250225001700","author":"Moxy","type":"comment","level":5,"id":"c-Moxy-20250225001700-Rja13ww33-20250224212400","replies":[]}]},{"timestamp":"20250225125200","author":"Springee","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Springee-20250225125200-Nil_Einne-20250224211200","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250225205000","author":"Nil Einne","type":"comment","level":5,"id":"c-Nil_Einne-20250225205000-Springee-20250225125200","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250225210200","author":"Rja13ww33","type":"comment","level":6,"id":"c-Rja13ww33-20250225210200-Nil_Einne-20250225205000","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250225212000","author":"Nil Einne","type":"comment","level":7,"id":"c-Nil_Einne-20250225212000-Rja13ww33-20250225210200","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250225213400","author":"Rja13ww33","type":"comment","level":8,"id":"c-Rja13ww33-20250225213400-Nil_Einne-20250225212000","replies":[]},{"timestamp":"20250225214300","author":"Nil Einne","type":"comment","level":8,"id":"c-Nil_Einne-20250225214300-Nil_Einne-20250225212000","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250225220000","author":"Rja13ww33","type":"comment","level":9,"id":"c-Rja13ww33-20250225220000-Nil_Einne-20250225214300","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250226021200","author":"The Bushranger","type":"comment","level":10,"id":"c-The_Bushranger-20250226021200-Rja13ww33-20250225220000","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250227150100","author":"Aquillion","type":"comment","level":11,"id":"c-Aquillion-20250227150100-The_Bushranger-20250226021200","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250227153100","author":"Springee","type":"comment","level":12,"id":"c-Springee-20250227153100-Aquillion-20250227150100","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250227184900","author":"Rja13ww33","type":"comment","level":13,"id":"c-Rja13ww33-20250227184900-Springee-20250227153100","replies":[]}]}]}]},{"timestamp":"20250301125300","author":"Nil Einne","type":"comment","level":10,"id":"c-Nil_Einne-20250301125300-Rja13ww33-20250225220000","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250303053100","author":"Rja13ww33","type":"comment","level":11,"id":"c-Rja13ww33-20250303053100-Nil_Einne-20250301125300","replies":[]}]}]}]}]}]}]}]}]}]},{"timestamp":"20250225002100","author":"GoodDay","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-GoodDay-20250225002100-Discussion_among_uninvolved_editors_about_the_appeal_by_Toa_Nidhiki05","replies":[]},{"timestamp":"20250225124800","author":"Springee","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Springee-20250225124800-Discussion_among_uninvolved_editors_about_the_appeal_by_Toa_Nidhiki05","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250225145500","author":"Springee","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Springee-20250225145500-Springee-20250225124800","replies":[]}]}]}]},{"headingLevel":2,"name":"h-Very_Polite_Person-20250224183700","type":"heading","level":0,"id":"h-Oversight_removed_revisions,_are_some_of_them_lost?-20250224183700","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250224195900","author":"Liz","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Liz-20250224195900-Oversight_removed_revisions,_are_some_of_them_lost?","replies":[]},{"timestamp":"20250224183700","author":"Very Polite Person","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Very_Polite_Person-20250224183700-Oversight_removed_revisions,_are_some_of_them_lost?","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250224184200","author":"Jéské Couriano","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Jéské_Couriano-20250224184200-Very_Polite_Person-20250224183700","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250224191900","author":"Liz","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Liz-20250224191900-Jéské_Couriano-20250224184200","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250224192500","author":"Very Polite Person","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Very_Polite_Person-20250224192500-Liz-20250224191900","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250224194100","author":"Liz","type":"comment","level":5,"id":"c-Liz-20250224194100-Very_Polite_Person-20250224192500","replies":[]}]}]}]}]}]},{"headingLevel":2,"name":"h-Theudariks_2.0-20250224204100","type":"heading","level":0,"id":"h-Consistently_disruptive_user-20250224204100","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250224204100","author":"Theudariks 2.0","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Theudariks_2.0-20250224204100-Consistently_disruptive_user","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250225003300","author":"Cullen328","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Cullen328-20250225003300-Theudariks_2.0-20250224204100","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250225021800","author":"Theudariks 2.0","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Theudariks_2.0-20250225021800-Cullen328-20250225003300","replies":[]}]}]}]},{"headingLevel":2,"name":"h-Tule-hog-20250224234300","type":"heading","level":0,"id":"h-Page_protecting_WP:RA/BAE-20250224234300","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250224234300","author":"Tule-hog","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Tule-hog-20250224234300-Page_protecting_WP:RA/BAE","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250224234700","author":"Tamzin","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Tamzin-20250224234700-Tule-hog-20250224234300","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250225012400","author":"Rsjaffe","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Rsjaffe-20250225012400-Tamzin-20250224234700","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250225013600","author":"Rsjaffe","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Rsjaffe-20250225013600-Rsjaffe-20250225012400","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250225015300","author":"Tule-hog","type":"comment","level":5,"id":"c-Tule-hog-20250225015300-Rsjaffe-20250225013600","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250225015700","author":"Tamzin","type":"comment","level":6,"id":"c-Tamzin-20250225015700-Tule-hog-20250225015300","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250225021800","author":"Rsjaffe","type":"comment","level":7,"id":"c-Rsjaffe-20250225021800-Tamzin-20250225015700","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250225023000","author":"Tamzin","type":"comment","level":8,"id":"c-Tamzin-20250225023000-Rsjaffe-20250225021800","replies":[]}]}]}]}]}]}]},{"timestamp":"20250225031500","author":"Tule-hog","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Tule-hog-20250225031500-Tule-hog-20250224234300","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250225032000","author":"Tule-hog","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Tule-hog-20250225032000-Tule-hog-20250225031500","replies":[]},{"timestamp":"20250225033000","author":"Rsjaffe","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Rsjaffe-20250225033000-Tule-hog-20250225031500","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250226132800","author":"Malcolmxl5","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Malcolmxl5-20250226132800-Rsjaffe-20250225033000","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250226152700","author":"Tule-hog","type":"comment","level":5,"id":"c-Tule-hog-20250226152700-Malcolmxl5-20250226132800","replies":[]}]}]}]},{"timestamp":"20250226175600","author":"CactusWriter","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-CactusWriter-20250226175600-Tule-hog-20250224234300","replies":[]},{"timestamp":"20250227175900","author":"Pppery","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Pppery-20250227175900-Tule-hog-20250224234300","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250227182000","author":"Tule-hog","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Tule-hog-20250227182000-Pppery-20250227175900","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250228160900","author":"Tule-hog","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Tule-hog-20250228160900-Tule-hog-20250227182000","replies":[]}]}],"displayName":"* Pppery *"}]}]},{"headingLevel":2,"name":"h-Primefac-20250225010900","type":"heading","level":0,"id":"h-CheckUser_consultations,_February_2025-20250225010900","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250225010900","author":"Primefac","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Primefac-20250225010900-CheckUser_consultations,_February_2025","replies":[]}]},{"headingLevel":2,"name":"h-Tamzin-20250225013600","type":"heading","level":0,"id":"h-Tamzin:_Appeal_of_voluntary_adminning_restriction-20250225013600","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250226025400","author":"Star Mississippi","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Star_Mississippi-20250226025400-Tamzin:_Appeal_of_voluntary_adminning_restriction","replies":[],"displayName":"Star"},{"timestamp":"20250225013600","author":"Tamzin","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Tamzin-20250225013600-Tamzin:_Appeal_of_voluntary_adminning_restriction","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250225014200","author":"Rsjaffe","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Rsjaffe-20250225014200-Tamzin-20250225013600","replies":[]},{"timestamp":"20250225020500","author":"Remsense","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Remsense-20250225020500-Tamzin-20250225013600","replies":[]},{"timestamp":"20250225021100","author":"GoodDay","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-GoodDay-20250225021100-Tamzin-20250225013600","replies":[]},{"timestamp":"20250225040500","author":"Chess","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Chess-20250225040500-Tamzin-20250225013600","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250225040700","author":"Remsense","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Remsense-20250225040700-Chess-20250225040500","replies":[]},{"timestamp":"20250225050200","author":"Tamzin","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Tamzin-20250225050200-Chess-20250225040500","replies":[]}]}]},{"timestamp":"20250225052500","author":"Cullen328","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Cullen328-20250225052500-Tamzin:_Appeal_of_voluntary_adminning_restriction","replies":[]},{"timestamp":"20250225095500","author":"Gråbergs Gråa Sång","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Gråbergs_Gråa_Sång-20250225095500-Tamzin:_Appeal_of_voluntary_adminning_restriction","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250225103500","author":"Joe Roe","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Joe_Roe-20250225103500-Gråbergs_Gråa_Sång-20250225095500","replies":[],"displayName":"Joe"},{"timestamp":"20250225123700","author":"Springee","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Springee-20250225123700-Gråbergs_Gråa_Sång-20250225095500","replies":[]},{"timestamp":"20250225125500","author":"Yamla","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Yamla-20250225125500-Gråbergs_Gråa_Sång-20250225095500","replies":[]},{"timestamp":"20250225130200","author":"Randy Kryn","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Randy_Kryn-20250225130200-Gråbergs_Gråa_Sång-20250225095500","replies":[]},{"timestamp":"20250225144300","author":"Hey man im josh","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Hey_man_im_josh-20250225144300-Gråbergs_Gråa_Sång-20250225095500","replies":[]},{"timestamp":"20250225150300","author":"SarekOfVulcan","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-SarekOfVulcan-20250225150300-Gråbergs_Gråa_Sång-20250225095500","replies":[]},{"timestamp":"20250225153700","author":"Chipmunkdavis","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Chipmunkdavis-20250225153700-Gråbergs_Gråa_Sång-20250225095500","replies":[],"displayName":"CMD"},{"timestamp":"20250225154300","author":"Asilvering","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Asilvering-20250225154300-Gråbergs_Gråa_Sång-20250225095500","replies":[]},{"timestamp":"20250226010500","author":"Patient Zero","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Patient_Zero-20250226010500-Gråbergs_Gråa_Sång-20250225095500","replies":[]}]}]},{"headingLevel":2,"name":"h-Bluethricecreamman-20250225024300","type":"heading","level":0,"id":"h-RfC_closure_review_request_at_Talk:Kash_Patel#RfC:_Whether_to_call_Kash_Patel_a-20250225024300","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250225024300","author":"Bluethricecreamman","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Bluethricecreamman-20250225024300-RfC_closure_review_request_at_Talk:Kash_Patel#RfC:_Whether_to_call_Kash_Patel_a","replies":[]},{"headingLevel":3,"name":"h-Szmenderowiecki-20250225042800","type":"heading","level":0,"id":"h-Closer_(Kash_Patel_RfC)-RfC_closure_review_request_at_Talk:Kash_Patel#RfC:_Whether_to_call_Kash_Patel_a-20250225042800","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250225042800","author":"Szmenderowiecki","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Szmenderowiecki-20250225042800-Closer_(Kash_Patel_RfC)","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250225053300","author":"Szmenderowiecki","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Szmenderowiecki-20250225053300-Szmenderowiecki-20250225042800","replies":[]}]},{"timestamp":"20250302113000","author":"Szmenderowiecki","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Szmenderowiecki-20250302113000-Closer_(Kash_Patel_RfC)","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250302135900","author":"Dw31415","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Dw31415-20250302135900-Szmenderowiecki-20250302113000","replies":[]}]}]},{"headingLevel":3,"name":"h-GoodDay-20250225024600","type":"heading","level":0,"id":"h-Non-participants_(Kash_Patel_RfC)-RfC_closure_review_request_at_Talk:Kash_Patel#RfC:_Whether_to_call_Kash_Patel_a-20250225024600","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250225024600","author":"GoodDay","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-GoodDay-20250225024600-Non-participants_(Kash_Patel_RfC)","replies":[]},{"timestamp":"20250225031800","author":"Springee","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Springee-20250225031800-Non-participants_(Kash_Patel_RfC)","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250225051500","author":"Springee","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Springee-20250225051500-Springee-20250225031800","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250227235400","author":"Carlp941","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Carlp941-20250227235400-Springee-20250225051500","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250228001600","author":"Dw31415","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Dw31415-20250228001600-Carlp941-20250227235400","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250228005900","author":"Carlp941","type":"comment","level":5,"id":"c-Carlp941-20250228005900-Dw31415-20250228001600","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250228034900","author":"Dw31415","type":"comment","level":6,"id":"c-Dw31415-20250228034900-Carlp941-20250228005900","replies":[]}]}]}]}]}]},{"timestamp":"20250225104000","author":"Super Goku V","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Super_Goku_V-20250225104000-Non-participants_(Kash_Patel_RfC)","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250225125600","author":"NewBorders","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-NewBorders-20250225125600-Super_Goku_V-20250225104000","replies":[]},{"timestamp":"20250225182900","author":"Dw31415","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Dw31415-20250225182900-Super_Goku_V-20250225104000","replies":[]}]}]},{"headingLevel":3,"name":"h-Simonm223-20250225130300","type":"heading","level":0,"id":"h-Participants_(Kash_Patel_RfC)-RfC_closure_review_request_at_Talk:Kash_Patel#RfC:_Whether_to_call_Kash_Patel_a-20250225130300","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250225130300","author":"Simonm223","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Simonm223-20250225130300-Participants_(Kash_Patel_RfC)","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250228154300","author":"Dw31415","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Dw31415-20250228154300-Simonm223-20250225130300","replies":[]}]},{"timestamp":"20250225185000","author":"Wikieditor662","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Wikieditor662-20250225185000-Participants_(Kash_Patel_RfC)","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250225192400","author":"Springee","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Springee-20250225192400-Wikieditor662-20250225185000","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250225193300","author":"Bluethricecreamman","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Bluethricecreamman-20250225193300-Springee-20250225192400","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250225195700","author":"Simonm223","type":"comment","level":5,"id":"c-Simonm223-20250225195700-Bluethricecreamman-20250225193300","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250225204500","author":"Bluethricecreamman","type":"comment","level":6,"id":"c-Bluethricecreamman-20250225204500-Simonm223-20250225195700","replies":[],"displayName":"User:Bluethricecreamman"},{"timestamp":"20250225211900","author":"Dw31415","type":"comment","level":6,"id":"c-Dw31415-20250225211900-Simonm223-20250225195700","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250226135500","author":"ScottishFinnishRadish","type":"comment","level":7,"id":"c-ScottishFinnishRadish-20250226135500-Dw31415-20250225211900","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250226150700","author":"Dw31415","type":"comment","level":8,"id":"c-Dw31415-20250226150700-ScottishFinnishRadish-20250226135500","replies":[]}]}]}]}],"displayName":"User:Bluethricecreamman"},{"timestamp":"20250226034300","author":"Wikieditor662","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Wikieditor662-20250226034300-Springee-20250225192400","replies":[]}]}]},{"timestamp":"20250226222900","author":"JacktheBrown","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-JacktheBrown-20250226222900-Participants_(Kash_Patel_RfC)","replies":[]},{"timestamp":"20250226233700","author":"Carlp941","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Carlp941-20250226233700-Participants_(Kash_Patel_RfC)","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250227151700","author":"JacktheBrown","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-JacktheBrown-20250227151700-Carlp941-20250226233700","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250227152400","author":"ScottishFinnishRadish","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-ScottishFinnishRadish-20250227152400-JacktheBrown-20250227151700","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250227154100","author":"JacktheBrown","type":"comment","level":5,"id":"c-JacktheBrown-20250227154100-ScottishFinnishRadish-20250227152400","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250227165400","author":"Carlp941","type":"comment","level":6,"id":"c-Carlp941-20250227165400-JacktheBrown-20250227154100","replies":[]}]},{"timestamp":"20250227155300","author":"Bluethricecreamman","type":"comment","level":5,"id":"c-Bluethricecreamman-20250227155300-ScottishFinnishRadish-20250227152400","replies":[],"displayName":"User:Bluethricecreamman"}]}]},{"timestamp":"20250227171400","author":"Carlp941","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Carlp941-20250227171400-Carlp941-20250226233700","replies":[]}]},{"timestamp":"20250302040800","author":"Dw31415","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Dw31415-20250302040800-Participants_(Kash_Patel_RfC)","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250302024200","author":"Liz","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Liz-20250302024200-Dw31415-20250302040800","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250302025400","author":"Dw31415","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Dw31415-20250302025400-Liz-20250302024200","replies":[]}]}]}]},{"headingLevel":3,"name":"h-Bluethricecreamman-20250225024300","type":"heading","level":0,"id":"h-Discussion_(Kash_Patel_RfC)-RfC_closure_review_request_at_Talk:Kash_Patel#RfC:_Whether_to_call_Kash_Patel_a-20250225024300","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250225024300","author":"Bluethricecreamman","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Bluethricecreamman-20250225024300-Discussion_(Kash_Patel_RfC)","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250226212200","author":"Dw31415","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Dw31415-20250226212200-Bluethricecreamman-20250225024300","replies":[]}],"displayName":"User:Bluethricecreamman"},{"timestamp":"20250226214500","author":"Wikieditor662","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Wikieditor662-20250226214500-Discussion_(Kash_Patel_RfC)","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250226215000","author":"Dw31415","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Dw31415-20250226215000-Wikieditor662-20250226214500","replies":[]}]},{"timestamp":"20250225033500","author":"Springee","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Springee-20250225033500-Discussion_(Kash_Patel_RfC)","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250225033800","author":"Szmenderowiecki","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Szmenderowiecki-20250225033800-Springee-20250225033500","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250225034100","author":"Springee","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Springee-20250225034100-Szmenderowiecki-20250225033800","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250225034500","author":"Szmenderowiecki","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Szmenderowiecki-20250225034500-Springee-20250225034100","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250225034500","author":"Voorts","type":"comment","level":5,"id":"c-Voorts-20250225034500-Szmenderowiecki-20250225034500","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250226130600","author":"Simonm223","type":"comment","level":6,"id":"c-Simonm223-20250226130600-Voorts-20250225034500","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250226134500","author":"Dw31415","type":"comment","level":7,"id":"c-Dw31415-20250226134500-Simonm223-20250226130600","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250226135600","author":"Simonm223","type":"comment","level":8,"id":"c-Simonm223-20250226135600-Dw31415-20250226134500","replies":[]},{"timestamp":"20250228050100","author":"Super Goku V","type":"comment","level":8,"id":"c-Super_Goku_V-20250228050100-Dw31415-20250226134500","replies":[]}]},{"timestamp":"20250226200300","author":"Wikieditor662","type":"comment","level":7,"id":"c-Wikieditor662-20250226200300-Simonm223-20250226130600","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250226202800","author":"Simonm223","type":"comment","level":8,"id":"c-Simonm223-20250226202800-Wikieditor662-20250226200300","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250226203200","author":"Wikieditor662","type":"comment","level":9,"id":"c-Wikieditor662-20250226203200-Simonm223-20250226202800","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250226203300","author":"Simonm223","type":"comment","level":10,"id":"c-Simonm223-20250226203300-Wikieditor662-20250226203200","replies":[]}]}]}]}]}]}]}]}]}]}]}]},{"headingLevel":2,"name":"h-Electricmemory-20250225062200","type":"heading","level":0,"id":"h-Something_fishy-20250225062200","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250225175300","author":"Liz","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Liz-20250225175300-Something_fishy","replies":[]},{"timestamp":"20250225062200","author":"Electricmemory","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Electricmemory-20250225062200-Something_fishy","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250225091400","author":"Klaphinnae","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Klaphinnae-20250225091400-Electricmemory-20250225062200","replies":[]},{"timestamp":"20250225092300","author":"Phil Bridger","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Phil_Bridger-20250225092300-Electricmemory-20250225062200","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250225123000","author":"Deepfriedokra","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Deepfriedokra-20250225123000-Phil_Bridger-20250225092300","replies":[],"displayName":"-- Deepfriedokra"}]}]}]},{"headingLevel":2,"name":"h-135.180.61.27-20250226042900","type":"heading","level":0,"id":"h-Bureaucratic_waste_and_cleanup_of_contentious_topics-20250226042900","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250228004100","author":"Liz","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Liz-20250228004100-Bureaucratic_waste_and_cleanup_of_contentious_topics","replies":[]},{"timestamp":"20250226042900","author":"135.180.61.27","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-135.180.61.27-20250226042900-Bureaucratic_waste_and_cleanup_of_contentious_topics","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250226042900","author":"135.180.61.27","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-135.180.61.27-20250226042900-135.180.61.27-20250226042900","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250226050300","author":"Extraordinary Writ","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Extraordinary_Writ-20250226050300-135.180.61.27-20250226042900","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250226074100","author":"Jéské Couriano","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Jéské_Couriano-20250226074100-Extraordinary_Writ-20250226050300","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250226092300","author":"The Bushranger","type":"comment","level":5,"id":"c-The_Bushranger-20250226092300-Jéské_Couriano-20250226074100","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250226102600","author":"Nil Einne","type":"comment","level":6,"id":"c-Nil_Einne-20250226102600-The_Bushranger-20250226092300","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250226142400","author":"Simonm223","type":"comment","level":7,"id":"c-Simonm223-20250226142400-Nil_Einne-20250226102600","replies":[]}]}]}]}]},{"timestamp":"20250226223900","author":"Nathannah","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Nathannah-20250226223900-135.180.61.27-20250226042900","replies":[]}]}]}]},{"headingLevel":2,"name":"h-2409:40D6:103:7C1E:2051:7A59:FF58:9232-20250226045300","type":"heading","level":0,"id":"h-Competent_(Legal)_issue_over_the_newer_replacement_of_Sikh_Empire_Map-20250226045300","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250227022100","author":"Liz","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Liz-20250227022100-Competent_(Legal)_issue_over_the_newer_replacement_of_Sikh_Empire_Map","replies":[]},{"timestamp":"20250226045300","author":"2409:40D6:103:7C1E:2051:7A59:FF58:9232","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-2409:40D6:103:7C1E:2051:7A59:FF58:9232-20250226045300-Competent_(Legal)_issue_over_the_newer_replacement_of_Sikh_Empire_Map","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250226050200","author":"Liz","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Liz-20250226050200-2409:40D6:103:7C1E:2051:7A59:FF58:9232-20250226045300","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250226051500","author":"2409:40D6:103:7C1E:2051:7A59:FF58:9232","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-2409:40D6:103:7C1E:2051:7A59:FF58:9232-20250226051500-Liz-20250226050200","replies":[]},{"timestamp":"20250226055100","author":"Rawn3012","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Rawn3012-20250226055100-Liz-20250226050200","replies":[]}]},{"timestamp":"20250226100500","author":"Black Kite","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Black_Kite-20250226100500-2409:40D6:103:7C1E:2051:7A59:FF58:9232-20250226045300","replies":[]},{"timestamp":"20250226141600","author":"Malcolmxl5","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Malcolmxl5-20250226141600-2409:40D6:103:7C1E:2051:7A59:FF58:9232-20250226045300","replies":[]}]}]},{"headingLevel":2,"name":"h-Very_Polite_Person-20250227181600","type":"heading","level":0,"id":"h-Heritage_Foundation_plans_to_doxx_Wikipedia_editors_and_admins-20250227181600","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250228002000","author":"The Bushranger","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-The_Bushranger-20250228002000-Heritage_Foundation_plans_to_doxx_Wikipedia_editors_and_admins","replies":[]},{"timestamp":"20250228002000","author":"The Bushranger","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-The_Bushranger-20250228002000-Heritage_Foundation_plans_to_doxx_Wikipedia_editors_and_admins-1","replies":[]},{"timestamp":"20250227181600","author":"Very Polite Person","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Very_Polite_Person-20250227181600-Heritage_Foundation_plans_to_doxx_Wikipedia_editors_and_admins","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250227183200","author":"Phil Bridger","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Phil_Bridger-20250227183200-Very_Polite_Person-20250227181600","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250227183500","author":"Very Polite Person","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Very_Polite_Person-20250227183500-Phil_Bridger-20250227183200","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250227185500","author":"Phil Bridger","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Phil_Bridger-20250227185500-Very_Polite_Person-20250227183500","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250227192100","author":"Liz","type":"comment","level":5,"id":"c-Liz-20250227192100-Phil_Bridger-20250227185500","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250227192400","author":"Simonm223","type":"comment","level":6,"id":"c-Simonm223-20250227192400-Liz-20250227192100","replies":[]}]}]}]}]}]}]},{"headingLevel":2,"name":"h-GoodDay-20250228003400","type":"heading","level":0,"id":"h-Template_update-20250228003400","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250228003400","author":"GoodDay","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-GoodDay-20250228003400-Template_update","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250228005800","author":"Voorts","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Voorts-20250228005800-GoodDay-20250228003400","replies":[]}]}]},{"headingLevel":2,"name":"h-Voorts-20250228014700","type":"heading","level":0,"id":"h-RfC_closure_review_request_at_Wikipedia:Village_pump_(policy)#Guideline_against-20250228014700","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250228052000","author":"Tamzin","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Tamzin-20250228052000-RfC_closure_review_request_at_Wikipedia:Village_pump_(policy)#Guideline_against","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250228063100","author":"Tamzin","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Tamzin-20250228063100-Tamzin-20250228052000","replies":[]}]},{"timestamp":"20250228014700","author":"Voorts","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Voorts-20250228014700-RfC_closure_review_request_at_Wikipedia:Village_pump_(policy)#Guideline_against","replies":[]},{"headingLevel":3,"name":"h-TurboSuperA+-20250228041300","type":"heading","level":0,"id":"h-Closer_(AI_image_RfC)-RfC_closure_review_request_at_Wikipedia:Village_pump_(policy)#Guideline_against-20250228041300","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250228041300","author":"TurboSuperA+","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-TurboSuperA+-20250228041300-Closer_(AI_image_RfC)","replies":[]}]},{"headingLevel":3,"name":"h-Dw31415-20250228044100","type":"heading","level":0,"id":"h-Non-participants_(AI_image_RfC)-RfC_closure_review_request_at_Wikipedia:Village_pump_(policy)#Guideline_against-20250228044100","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250228044100","author":"Dw31415","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Dw31415-20250228044100-Non-participants_(AI_image_RfC)","replies":[]}]},{"headingLevel":3,"name":"h-","type":"heading","level":0,"id":"h-Participants_(AI_image_RfC)-RfC_closure_review_request_at_Wikipedia:Village_pump_(policy)#Guideline_against","replies":[]},{"headingLevel":3,"name":"h-Liz-20250228021800","type":"heading","level":0,"id":"h-Discussion_(AI_image_RfC)-RfC_closure_review_request_at_Wikipedia:Village_pump_(policy)#Guideline_against-20250228021800","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250228021800","author":"Liz","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Liz-20250228021800-Discussion_(AI_image_RfC)","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250228022700","author":"Voorts","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Voorts-20250228022700-Liz-20250228021800","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250228041900","author":"TurboSuperA+","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-TurboSuperA+-20250228041900-Voorts-20250228022700","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250228042800","author":"Voorts","type":"comment","level":5,"id":"c-Voorts-20250228042800-TurboSuperA+-20250228041900","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250228043900","author":"TurboSuperA+","type":"comment","level":6,"id":"c-TurboSuperA+-20250228043900-Voorts-20250228042800","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250228044400","author":"Voorts","type":"comment","level":7,"id":"c-Voorts-20250228044400-TurboSuperA+-20250228043900","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250228045200","author":"TurboSuperA+","type":"comment","level":8,"id":"c-TurboSuperA+-20250228045200-Voorts-20250228044400","replies":[]}]}]}]}]}]},{"timestamp":"20250228022900","author":"Extraordinary Writ","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Extraordinary_Writ-20250228022900-Liz-20250228021800","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250228023200","author":"Liz","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Liz-20250228023200-Extraordinary_Writ-20250228022900","replies":[]}]}]}]}]},{"headingLevel":2,"name":"h-RosPost-20250228185200","type":"heading","level":0,"id":"h-Creating_a_Geonotice-20250228185200","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250228185200","author":"RosPost","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-RosPost-20250228185200-Creating_a_Geonotice","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250228201700","author":"Phil Bridger","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Phil_Bridger-20250228201700-RosPost-20250228185200","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250228202100","author":"Primefac","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Primefac-20250228202100-Phil_Bridger-20250228201700","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250228211000","author":"Phil Bridger","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Phil_Bridger-20250228211000-Primefac-20250228202100","replies":[]}]}]}]}]},{"headingLevel":2,"name":"h-PMFlack-20250301155600","type":"heading","level":0,"id":"h-Mattia_Vlad_Morleo_page-20250301155600","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250302232900","author":"Asilvering","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Asilvering-20250302232900-Mattia_Vlad_Morleo_page","replies":[]},{"timestamp":"20250301155600","author":"PMFlack","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-PMFlack-20250301155600-Mattia_Vlad_Morleo_page","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250301175100","author":"Liz","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Liz-20250301175100-PMFlack-20250301155600","replies":[]}]}]},{"headingLevel":2,"name":"h-RavenM3-20250302031400","type":"heading","level":0,"id":"h-Creation_of_page_Jack_Massey_Welsh-20250302031400","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250302153000","author":"Star Mississippi","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Star_Mississippi-20250302153000-Creation_of_page_Jack_Massey_Welsh","replies":[],"displayName":"Star"},{"timestamp":"20250302031400","author":"RavenM3","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-RavenM3-20250302031400-Creation_of_page_Jack_Massey_Welsh","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250302034000","author":"Voorts","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Voorts-20250302034000-RavenM3-20250302031400","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250302040200","author":"0xDeadbeef","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-0xDeadbeef-20250302040200-Voorts-20250302034000","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250302051100","author":"RavenM3","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-RavenM3-20250302051100-0xDeadbeef-20250302040200","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250302053800","author":"Voorts","type":"comment","level":5,"id":"c-Voorts-20250302053800-RavenM3-20250302051100","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250302054000","author":"Voorts","type":"comment","level":6,"id":"c-Voorts-20250302054000-Voorts-20250302053800","replies":[]}]}]}],"displayName":"Deadbeef"}]},{"timestamp":"20250302053800","author":"Liz","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Liz-20250302053800-RavenM3-20250302031400","replies":[]}]}]},{"headingLevel":2,"name":"h-Yelps-20250302061200","type":"heading","level":0,"id":"h-User:_ZOMG_INCOMING-20250302061200","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250302061500","author":"Voorts","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Voorts-20250302061500-User:_ZOMG_INCOMING","replies":[]},{"timestamp":"20250302061200","author":"Yelps","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Yelps-20250302061200-User:_ZOMG_INCOMING","replies":[]}]},{"headingLevel":2,"name":"h-Michaelshea04-20250302102500","type":"heading","level":0,"id":"h-Request_to_unban_my_socks.-20250302102500","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250302153200","author":"Star Mississippi","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Star_Mississippi-20250302153200-Request_to_unban_my_socks.","replies":[],"displayName":"Star"},{"timestamp":"20250302102500","author":"Michaelshea04","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Michaelshea04-20250302102500-Request_to_unban_my_socks.","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250302110500","author":"DoubleGrazing","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-DoubleGrazing-20250302110500-Michaelshea04-20250302102500","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250302110800","author":"Michaelshea04","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Michaelshea04-20250302110800-DoubleGrazing-20250302110500","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250302111200","author":"DoubleGrazing","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-DoubleGrazing-20250302111200-Michaelshea04-20250302110800","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250302111800","author":"Michaelshea04","type":"comment","level":5,"id":"c-Michaelshea04-20250302111800-DoubleGrazing-20250302111200","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250302112800","author":"331dot","type":"comment","level":6,"id":"c-331dot-20250302112800-Michaelshea04-20250302111800","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250302113700","author":"Michaelshea04","type":"comment","level":7,"id":"c-Michaelshea04-20250302113700-331dot-20250302112800","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250302114800","author":"Phil Bridger","type":"comment","level":8,"id":"c-Phil_Bridger-20250302114800-Michaelshea04-20250302113700","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250302123500","author":"Michaelshea04","type":"comment","level":9,"id":"c-Michaelshea04-20250302123500-Phil_Bridger-20250302114800","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250302125300","author":"331dot","type":"comment","level":10,"id":"c-331dot-20250302125300-Michaelshea04-20250302123500","replies":[]}]}]}]}]}]}]},{"timestamp":"20250302112800","author":"Secretlondon","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Secretlondon-20250302112800-Michaelshea04-20250302110800","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250302113700","author":"Michaelshea04","type":"comment","level":5,"id":"c-Michaelshea04-20250302113700-Secretlondon-20250302112800","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250302125400","author":"331dot","type":"comment","level":6,"id":"c-331dot-20250302125400-Michaelshea04-20250302113700","replies":[]}]}]}]}]},{"timestamp":"20250302112000","author":"Phil Bridger","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Phil_Bridger-20250302112000-Michaelshea04-20250302102500","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250302112600","author":"Michaelshea04","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Michaelshea04-20250302112600-Phil_Bridger-20250302112000","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250302113000","author":"DoubleGrazing","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-DoubleGrazing-20250302113000-Michaelshea04-20250302112600","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250302130000","author":"Yamla","type":"comment","level":5,"id":"c-Yamla-20250302130000-DoubleGrazing-20250302113000","replies":[]},{"timestamp":"20250302132000","author":"DMacks","type":"comment","level":5,"id":"c-DMacks-20250302132000-DoubleGrazing-20250302113000","replies":[]}]}]}]}]}]},{"headingLevel":2,"name":"h-Contributor2020-20250302170700","type":"heading","level":0,"id":"h-Caution_:_Paid_editing_in_place-20250302170700","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250303002000","author":"Star Mississippi","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Star_Mississippi-20250303002000-Caution_:_Paid_editing_in_place","replies":[],"displayName":"Star"},{"timestamp":"20250302170700","author":"Contributor2020","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Contributor2020-20250302170700-Caution_:_Paid_editing_in_place","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250302173600","author":"Voorts","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Voorts-20250302173600-Contributor2020-20250302170700","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250302174300","author":"BD2412","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-BD2412-20250302174300-Voorts-20250302173600","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250302180000","author":"Voorts","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Voorts-20250302180000-BD2412-20250302174300","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250302192000","author":"BD2412","type":"comment","level":5,"id":"c-BD2412-20250302192000-Voorts-20250302180000","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250302194800","author":"Horse Eye's Back","type":"comment","level":6,"id":"c-Horse_Eye's_Back-20250302194800-BD2412-20250302192000","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250302215500","author":"Liz","type":"comment","level":7,"id":"c-Liz-20250302215500-Horse_Eye's_Back-20250302194800","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250302220600","author":"Voorts","type":"comment","level":8,"id":"c-Voorts-20250302220600-Liz-20250302215500","replies":[]}]}]}]}]}]}]}]}]},{"headingLevel":2,"name":"h-Muckraker2018-20250303010300","type":"heading","level":0,"id":"h-Admin_Abusing_Power_For_Nepotism-20250303010300","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250303022300","author":"Liz","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Liz-20250303022300-Admin_Abusing_Power_For_Nepotism","replies":[]},{"timestamp":"20250303010300","author":"Muckraker2018","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Muckraker2018-20250303010300-Admin_Abusing_Power_For_Nepotism","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250303010900","author":"331dot","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-331dot-20250303010900-Muckraker2018-20250303010300","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250303011100","author":"331dot","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-331dot-20250303011100-331dot-20250303010900","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250303021400","author":"Floquenbeam","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Floquenbeam-20250303021400-331dot-20250303011100","replies":[]}]}]}]}]},{"headingLevel":2,"name":"h-Moxy-20250303035300","type":"heading","level":0,"id":"h-Bit_of_a_backlog_at....-20250303035300","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250303035300","author":"Moxy","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Moxy-20250303035300-Bit_of_a_backlog_at....","replies":[]}]},{"headingLevel":2,"name":"h-LokiTheLiar-20250303035400","type":"heading","level":0,"id":"h-Improper_WP:NAC_at_FTN-20250303035400","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250303055600","author":"Guninvalid","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Guninvalid-20250303055600-Improper_WP:NAC_at_FTN","replies":[]},{"timestamp":"20250303035400","author":"LokiTheLiar","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-LokiTheLiar-20250303035400-Improper_WP:NAC_at_FTN","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250303035800","author":"Guninvalid","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Guninvalid-20250303035800-LokiTheLiar-20250303035400","replies":[]}],"displayName":"Loki"},{"headingLevel":3,"name":"h-Guninvalid-20250303040300","type":"heading","level":0,"id":"h-Involved-Improper_WP:NAC_at_FTN-20250303040300","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250303040300","author":"Guninvalid","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Guninvalid-20250303040300-Involved","replies":[]},{"timestamp":"20250303041400","author":"OsFish","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-OsFish-20250303041400-Involved","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250303043100","author":"OsFish","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-OsFish-20250303043100-OsFish-20250303041400","replies":[]}]},{"timestamp":"20250303042200","author":"Generalrelative","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Generalrelative-20250303042200-Involved","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250303054100","author":"Aaron Liu","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Aaron_Liu-20250303054100-Generalrelative-20250303042200","replies":[]}]}]},{"headingLevel":3,"name":"h-Dw31415-20250303044100","type":"heading","level":0,"id":"h-Uninvolved-Improper_WP:NAC_at_FTN-20250303044100","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250303044100","author":"Dw31415","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Dw31415-20250303044100-Uninvolved","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250303050000","author":"Dw31415","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Dw31415-20250303050000-Dw31415-20250303044100","replies":[]},{"timestamp":"20250303053800","author":"Aaron Liu","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Aaron_Liu-20250303053800-Dw31415-20250303044100","replies":[]}]}]}]},{"headingLevel":2,"name":"h-DoctorWhoFan91-20250303064300","type":"heading","level":0,"id":"h-Appealing_my_I-ban-20250303064300","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250303085000","author":"Tamzin","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Tamzin-20250303085000-Appealing_my_I-ban","replies":[]},{"timestamp":"20250303064300","author":"DoctorWhoFan91","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-DoctorWhoFan91-20250303064300-Appealing_my_I-ban","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250303080300","author":"Nil Einne","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Nil_Einne-20250303080300-DoctorWhoFan91-20250303064300","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250303081300","author":"Nil Einne","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Nil_Einne-20250303081300-Nil_Einne-20250303080300","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250303082400","author":"DoctorWhoFan91","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-DoctorWhoFan91-20250303082400-Nil_Einne-20250303081300","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250303083600","author":"DoctorWhoFan91","type":"comment","level":5,"id":"c-DoctorWhoFan91-20250303083600-DoctorWhoFan91-20250303082400","replies":[],"displayName":"DWF91"}],"displayName":"DWF91"}]}]},{"timestamp":"20250303081100","author":"Alex 21","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Alex_21-20250303081100-DoctorWhoFan91-20250303064300","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250303083200","author":"DoctorWhoFan91","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-DoctorWhoFan91-20250303083200-Alex_21-20250303081100","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250303084800","author":"Alex 21","type":"comment","level":5,"id":"c-Alex_21-20250303084800-DoctorWhoFan91-20250303083200","replies":[],"displayName":"Alex_21"}],"displayName":"DWF91"}],"displayName":"Alex_21"}],"displayName":"DWF91"},{"timestamp":"20250303090900","author":"DoctorWhoFan91","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-DoctorWhoFan91-20250303090900-Appealing_my_I-ban","replies":[],"displayName":"DWF91"},{"timestamp":"20250303090900","author":"DoctorWhoFan91","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-DoctorWhoFan91-20250303090900-Appealing_my_I-ban-1","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250303095000","author":"Meters","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Meters-20250303095000-DoctorWhoFan91-20250303090900","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250303104400","author":"DoctorWhoFan91","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-DoctorWhoFan91-20250303104400-Meters-20250303095000","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250303110400","author":"Meters","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Meters-20250303110400-DoctorWhoFan91-20250303104400","replies":[]}],"displayName":"DWF91"},{"timestamp":"20250303141300","author":"Hey man im josh","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Hey_man_im_josh-20250303141300-Meters-20250303095000","replies":[]},{"timestamp":"20250303155100","author":"ImaginesTigers","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-ImaginesTigers-20250303155100-Meters-20250303095000","replies":[]}]}],"displayName":"DWF91"}]},{"headingLevel":2,"name":"h-Bishonen-20250303112500","type":"heading","level":0,"id":"h-Is_SPI_overwhelmed?-20250303112500","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250303112500","author":"Bishonen","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Bishonen-20250303112500-Is_SPI_overwhelmed?","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250303140800","author":"Hey man im josh","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Hey_man_im_josh-20250303140800-Bishonen-20250303112500","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250303142400","author":"Phil Bridger","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Phil_Bridger-20250303142400-Hey_man_im_josh-20250303140800","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250303172000","author":"Hey man im josh","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Hey_man_im_josh-20250303172000-Phil_Bridger-20250303142400","replies":[]}]}]},{"timestamp":"20250303165300","author":"The Kip","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-The_Kip-20250303165300-Bishonen-20250303112500","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250303172600","author":"Bbb23","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Bbb23-20250303172600-The_Kip-20250303165300","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250303172700","author":"The Kip","type":"comment","level":5,"id":"c-The_Kip-20250303172700-Bbb23-20250303172600","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250303180100","author":"Izno","type":"comment","level":6,"id":"c-Izno-20250303180100-The_Kip-20250303172700","replies":[]},{"timestamp":"20250303180300","author":"Izno","type":"comment","level":6,"id":"c-Izno-20250303180300-The_Kip-20250303172700","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250303180800","author":"Bbb23","type":"comment","level":7,"id":"c-Bbb23-20250303180800-Izno-20250303180300","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250303181400","author":"Izno","type":"comment","level":8,"id":"c-Izno-20250303181400-Bbb23-20250303180800","replies":[]}]}]}],"displayName":"The"}]},{"timestamp":"20250303170100","author":"Knitsey","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Knitsey-20250303170100-The_Kip-20250303165300","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250303171600","author":"Bbb23","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Bbb23-20250303171600-Knitsey-20250303170100","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250303171800","author":"Knitsey","type":"comment","level":5,"id":"c-Knitsey-20250303171800-Bbb23-20250303171600","replies":[]},{"timestamp":"20250303172100","author":"Hey man im josh","type":"comment","level":5,"id":"c-Hey_man_im_josh-20250303172100-Bbb23-20250303171600","replies":[]},{"timestamp":"20250303180900","author":"Izno","type":"comment","level":5,"id":"c-Izno-20250303180900-Bbb23-20250303171600","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250303181900","author":"Knitsey","type":"comment","level":6,"id":"c-Knitsey-20250303181900-Izno-20250303180900","replies":[]}]}]}]}],"displayName":"The"},{"timestamp":"20250303171000","author":"Bbb23","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Bbb23-20250303171000-Bishonen-20250303112500","replies":[{"timestamp":"20250303180200","author":"Izno","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Izno-20250303180200-Bbb23-20250303171000","replies":[]},{"timestamp":"20250303180800","author":"Barkeep49","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Barkeep49-20250303180800-Bbb23-20250303171000","replies":[]}]}]}]}],"wgPageParseReport":{"discussiontools":{"limitreport-timeusage":"0.325"},"limitreport":{"cputime":"1.796","walltime":"2.338","ppvisitednodes":{"value":11460,"limit":1000000},"postexpandincludesize":{"value":678972,"limit":2097152},"templateargumentsize":{"value":66172,"limit":2097152},"expansiondepth":{"value":18,"limit":100},"expensivefunctioncount":{"value":85,"limit":500},"unstrip-depth":{"value":0,"limit":20},"unstrip-size":{"value":113353,"limit":5000000},"entityaccesscount":{"value":0,"limit":400},"timingprofile":["100.00% 1254.444 1 -total"," 34.49% 432.618 1 Template:Admin_tasks"," 26.87% 337.115 1 Template:XfD_backlog"," 14.82% 185.969 1 Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard/Header"," 13.14% 164.825 1 Template:Noticeboard_header"," 9.05% 113.466 64 Template:Tq"," 7.73% 97.003 1 Template:Noticeboard_links"," 7.61% 95.452 84 Template:Encodefirst"," 7.18% 90.065 20 Template:Atop"," 5.87% 73.677 1 Template:Administrators'_noticeboard_archives"]},"scribunto":{"limitreport-timeusage":{"value":"0.539","limit":"10.000"},"limitreport-memusage":{"value":5709085,"limit":52428800}},"cachereport":{"origin":"mw-api-int.codfw.main-665d9859b9-6wm5d","timestamp":"20250303182937","ttl":864000,"transientcontent":true}}});});</script> </body> </html>