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vector-toc-list-item-expanded"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Why_is_Hamas’_claims_of_him_being_alive_given_more_weight_than_the_IDF’s_assertions_he’s_dead?"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">2</span> <span>Why is Hamas’ claims of him being alive given more weight than the IDF’s assertions he’s dead?</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">21 comments</span> <ul id="toc-Why_is_Hamas’_claims_of_him_being_alive_given_more_weight_than_the_IDF’s_assertions_he’s_dead?-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Description_of_Mohammed_Deif" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1 vector-toc-list-item-expanded"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Description_of_Mohammed_Deif"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">3</span> <span>Description of Mohammed Deif</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">3 comments</span> <ul id="toc-Description_of_Mohammed_Deif-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Asharq_Al-Awsat_confirms_Deif's_death." class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1 vector-toc-list-item-expanded"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Asharq_Al-Awsat_confirms_Deif's_death."> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">4</span> <span>Asharq Al-Awsat confirms Deif's death.</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">32 comments</span> <button aria-controls="toc-Asharq_Al-Awsat_confirms_Deif's_death.-sublist" class="cdx-button cdx-button--weight-quiet cdx-button--icon-only vector-toc-toggle"> <span class="vector-icon mw-ui-icon-wikimedia-expand"></span> <span>Toggle Asharq Al-Awsat confirms Deif's death. subsection</span> </button> <ul id="toc-Asharq_Al-Awsat_confirms_Deif's_death.-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> <li id="toc-Both_dead_and_alive" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-2"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Both_dead_and_alive"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">4.1</span> <span>Both dead and alive</span> </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Both_dead_and_alive-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Bizarre_English_and_incorrect_article_link" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1 vector-toc-list-item-expanded"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Bizarre_English_and_incorrect_article_link"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">5</span> <span>Bizarre English and incorrect article link</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">4 comments</span> <ul id="toc-Bizarre_English_and_incorrect_article_link-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Official_list_of_casualties_from_Hamas_health_ministry" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1 vector-toc-list-item-expanded"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Official_list_of_casualties_from_Hamas_health_ministry"> <div 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padding: 1px 3px;"><span class="plainlinks"><i>Find sources:</i> <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://www.google.com/search?as_eq=wikipedia&q=%22Mohammed+Deif%22">Google</a> (<a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://www.google.com/search?tbs=bks:1&q=%22Mohammed+Deif%22+-wikipedia">books</a> <b>·</b> <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://www.google.com/search?tbm=nws&q=%22Mohammed+Deif%22+-wikipedia&tbs=ar:1">news</a> <b>·</b> <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=%22Mohammed+Deif%22">scholar</a> <b>·</b> <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://www.google.com/search?safe=off&tbs=sur:fmc&tbm=isch&q=%22Mohammed+Deif%22+-site:wikipedia.org+-site:wikimedia.org">free images</a> <b>·</b> <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://www.google.com/custom?hl=en&cx=007734830908295939403%3Agalkqgoksq0&cof=FORID%3A13%3BAH%3Aleft%3BCX%3AWikipedia%2520Reference%2520Search&q=%22Mohammed+Deif%22">WP refs</a>) <b>·</b> <span title="Free English newspaper sources" style="border-bottom: 1px dotted;"><a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Free_English_newspaper_sources">FENS</a></span> <b>·</b> <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://www.jstor.org/action/doBasicSearch?Query=%22Mohammed+Deif%22&acc=on&wc=on">JSTOR</a> <b>·</b> <span title="The Wikipedia Library" style="border-bottom: 1px dotted;"><a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://wikipedialibrary.wmflabs.org/search/?q=%22Mohammed+Deif%22">TWL</a></span></span></td></tr><tr><td style="border-top: 1px solid #c0c090; padding: 1px 3px;"><b><a href="/wiki/Help:Archiving_a_talk_page" title="Help:Archiving a talk page">Archives</a>:</b> <a href="/wiki/Talk:Mohammed_Deif/Archive_1" title="Talk:Mohammed Deif/Archive 1">1</a><span style="position: relative; top: 2px; float: right; font-size: 90%; margin-left: 1em;"><style data-mw-deduplicate="TemplateStyles:r1038841319">.mw-parser-output .tooltip-dotted{border-bottom:1px dotted;cursor:help}</style><span class="rt-commentedText tooltip tooltip-dotted" title="Discussions with timestamps are automatically archived by Lowercase sigmabot III after 20 days of inactivity.">Auto-archiving period</span>: <b>20 days</b> <span typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/Help:Archiving_a_talk_page#Automated_archiving" title="Help:Archiving a talk page"><img alt="" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/1/1d/Information_icon4.svg/16px-Information_icon4.svg.png" decoding="async" width="16" height="16" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/1/1d/Information_icon4.svg/24px-Information_icon4.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/1/1d/Information_icon4.svg/32px-Information_icon4.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="620" data-file-height="620"/></a></span></span></td> </tr><tr><td style="border-top: 1px solid #c0c090; padding: 0;"><div> <div class="mw-inputbox-centered" style=""><form name="searchbox" class="searchbox mw-inputbox-form-inline" action="/wiki/Special:Search"><div class="cdx-text-input"><input class="mw-searchInput searchboxInput cdx-text-input__input" name="search" placeholder="" size="50" dir="ltr"/></div><input type="hidden" value="Talk:Mohammed Deif/" name="prefix"/> <input type="submit" name="fulltext" value="Search archives" class="cdx-button"/><input type="hidden" value="Search" name="fulltext"/></form></div> </div></td> </tr> </tbody></table> <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1237879475"><table class="plainlinks tmbox tmbox-notice" role="presentation"><tbody><tr><td class="mbox-empty-cell"></td><td class="mbox-text"><style data-mw-deduplicate="TemplateStyles:r1214851843">.mw-parser-output .hidden-begin{box-sizing:border-box;width:100%;padding:5px;border:none;font-size:95%}.mw-parser-output .hidden-title{font-weight:bold;line-height:1.6;text-align:left}.mw-parser-output .hidden-content{text-align:left}@media all and (max-width:500px){.mw-parser-output .hidden-begin{width:auto!important;clear:none!important;float:none!important}}</style><div class="hidden-begin mw-collapsible autocollapse" style="font-size: 105%"><div class="hidden-title skin-nightmode-reset-color" style="text-align: center"><span class="anchor" id="FAQ"></span><div style="float:left;"><span typeof="mw:File"><a href="//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Mohammed_Deif/FAQ&action=edit&preload=Template:FAQ/Preload" title="?"><img alt="?" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/10/OOjs_UI_icon_help-ltr-progressive.svg/24px-OOjs_UI_icon_help-ltr-progressive.svg.png" decoding="async" width="24" height="24" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/10/OOjs_UI_icon_help-ltr-progressive.svg/36px-OOjs_UI_icon_help-ltr-progressive.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/10/OOjs_UI_icon_help-ltr-progressive.svg/48px-OOjs_UI_icon_help-ltr-progressive.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="20" data-file-height="20"/></a></span> <small><a href="/wiki/Talk:Mohammed_Deif/FAQ" title="Talk:Mohammed Deif/FAQ">view</a> <b>·</b> <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Mohammed_Deif/FAQ&action=edit&preload=Template:FAQ/Preload">edit</a></small></div> Frequently asked questions</div><div class="hidden-content mw-collapsible-content" style=""> <div id="Q1" class="faqrow mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"> <style data-mw-deduplicate="TemplateStyles:r902545367">.mw-parser-output .faqrow{padding:2px 0;font-size:95%}.mw-parser-output .faqrow-title{padding:2px 35px 2px 2px;line-height:1.6em;font-weight:bold}.mw-parser-output .faqrow-body{margin:2px 0 2px 15px;padding:2px}</style> <div class="faqrow-title">Q1: Why is Mohammed Deif shown as alive?</div> <div class="faqrow-body mw-collapsible-content"><b>A1:</b> per <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:BDP" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:BDP">WP:BDP</a>, "<style data-mw-deduplicate="TemplateStyles:r1248585704">@media screen{html.skin-theme-clientpref-night .mw-parser-output .inline-quote-talk{color:#00B785}}@media screen and (prefers-color-scheme:dark){html.skin-theme-clientpref-os .mw-parser-output .inline-quote-talk{color:#00B785}}.mw-parser-output .inline-quote-talk{font-family:Georgia,"DejaVu Serif",serif;color:#008560;quotes:none}.mw-parser-output .inline-quote-talk-italic{font-family:inherit;font-style:italic}.mw-parser-output .inline-quote-talk-marks{quotes:"\"""\""}</style><q class="inline-quote-talk">anyone born within the past 115 years is [considered alive] unless a reliable source has confirmed their death"</q>. Although the Israeli military stated on August 1, 2024 that it has evidence that Deif was successfully assassinated, and on November 2, 2024 <a href="/wiki/Asharq_Al-Awsat" title="Asharq Al-Awsat">a London-based Saudi aligned newspaper</a> reported that his remains have been confirmed, <a href="/wiki/Hamas" title="Hamas">Hamas</a> has denied Deif's death. On November 21, 2024 the <a href="/wiki/International_Criminal_Court_arrest_warrants_for_Israeli_figures" title="International Criminal Court arrest warrants for Israeli figures">International Criminal Court issued an arrest warrant for him</a> with the comment that the warrant would be withdrawn upon the confirmation of Deif's death.<br/>To comply with <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:NPOV" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:NPOV">Wikipedia's neutrality policy</a>, the consensus is to follow the actions of the International Criminal Court which purports to be neutral (having issued arrest warrants to leaders on both sides of the <a href="/wiki/Israel-Hamas_War" class="mw-redirect" title="Israel-Hamas War">Israel-Hamas War</a>).</div></div> <div id="Q2" class="faqrow mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"> <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r902545367"> <div class="faqrow-title">Q2: Does this mean that Hamas's version is given more weight?</div> <div class="faqrow-body mw-collapsible-content"><b>A2:</b> It means that preference is given to the version of the person being alive. Given that a reputable international organization claims that it cannot verify Deif's death, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:BDP" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:BDP">WP:BDP</a> requires the assumption that he's still alive.</div></div> <div id="Q3" class="faqrow mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"> <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r902545367"> <div class="faqrow-title">Q3: What would happen if Hamas were to announce his death but were to provide a different date, location, and cause for his death?</div> <div class="faqrow-body mw-collapsible-content"><b>A3:</b> Unless one side provides stronger evidence than the other side, under such a scenario it would be proper to list both dates, locations, and causes with parenthesis indicating whose date, location, and cause is associated with which version</div></div> <div id="Q4" class="faqrow mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"> <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r902545367"> <div class="faqrow-title">Q4: What could happen in 2080 (115 years after Deif's birth) under the scenario of no new information is made available (i.e. Deif's death is still denied from the Palestinian side, and no new evidence is provided about his death)?</div> <div class="faqrow-body mw-collapsible-content"><b>A4:</b> At that point, it would be permissible to enter the Israeli version of the time, place, and cause of his death with the parenthetical statement that the information is disputed.</div></div> <div id="Q5" class="faqrow mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"> <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r902545367"> <div class="faqrow-title">Q5: How do Wikipedias in other languages handle this issue?</div> <div class="faqrow-body mw-collapsible-content"><b>A5:</b> Each Wikipedia is run differently with different rules, meaning that the consensus reached in other Wikipedias could be different. Not all Wikipedias have <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:BLP" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:BLP">policies regarding biographies of living people</a>, and even those who have such a policy, few have a clause within their policy page on how to handle death announcements.<br/>Since the English Wikipedia has been hit with <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_Seigenthaler_biography_incident" title="Wikipedia Seigenthaler biography incident">an unfortunate incident regarding the biography of a living person as far back as 2005</a>, it has developed the most stringent <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:BLP" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:BLP">policies regarding biographies of living people</a>.</div></div> </div></div></td></tr></tbody></table> <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1237879475"><table class="plainlinks tmbox tmbox-notice" role="presentation"><tbody><tr><td class="mbox-image"><span typeof="mw:File"><span title="Good articles"><img alt="Good articles" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/7f/Symbol_oppose_vote.svg/45px-Symbol_oppose_vote.svg.png" decoding="async" width="45" height="46" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/7f/Symbol_oppose_vote.svg/68px-Symbol_oppose_vote.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/7f/Symbol_oppose_vote.svg/90px-Symbol_oppose_vote.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="180" data-file-height="185"/></span></span></td><td class="mbox-text"><b>Mohammed Deif</b> was nominated as a <i><b><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Good_articles/Social_sciences_and_society" title="Wikipedia:Good articles/Social sciences and society">Social sciences and society good article</a></b></i>, but it did not meet the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Good_article_criteria" title="Wikipedia:Good article criteria">good article criteria</a> at the time (April 10, 2024, <span class="plainlinks"><a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Mohammed_Deif&oldid=1217417357">reviewed version</a></span>). There are suggestions on <b><a href="/wiki/Talk:Mohammed_Deif/GA1" title="Talk:Mohammed Deif/GA1">the review page</a></b> for improving the article. If you can improve it, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Be_bold" title="Wikipedia:Be bold">please do</a>; it may then be <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Good_article_nominations" title="Wikipedia:Good article nominations">renominated</a>.</td></tr></tbody></table> <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1237879475"><table class="plainlinks tmbox tmbox-content wpb-outside banner-shell-outside" role="presentation" style="background: var(--background-color-warning-subtle, #fef6e7); border: 1px solid var(--border-color-base, #a2a9b1); color: inherit;"><tbody><tr><td class="mbox-empty-cell"></td><td class="mbox-text">This article must adhere to the <b><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Biographies_of_living_persons" title="Wikipedia:Biographies of living persons">biographies of living persons</a></b> (<b>BLP</b>) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Verifiability" title="Wikipedia:Verifiability">poorly sourced</a> <b>must be removed immediately</b> from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Libel" title="Wikipedia:Libel">libellous</a>. 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href="/wiki/File:Symbol_b_class.svg" class="mw-file-description" title="B-Class article"><img alt="" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/5/5f/Symbol_b_class.svg/35px-Symbol_b_class.svg.png" decoding="async" width="35" height="36" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/5/5f/Symbol_b_class.svg/53px-Symbol_b_class.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/5/5f/Symbol_b_class.svg/70px-Symbol_b_class.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="180" data-file-height="185"/></a></span></td><td class="banner-shell-header" style="text-align:left;font-weight:normal">This article is rated <b>B-class</b> on Wikipedia's <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Content_assessment" title="Wikipedia:Content assessment">content assessment</a> scale.<br/>It is of interest to multiple <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject">WikiProjects</a>.</td></tr><tr><td colspan="2" class="banner-shell-inner outercollapse"><link 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class="portalbox-image"><span class="noviewer" typeof="mw:File"><span><img alt="" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/6/69/P_vip.svg/28px-P_vip.svg.png" decoding="async" width="28" height="28" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/6/69/P_vip.svg/41px-P_vip.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/6/69/P_vip.svg/55px-P_vip.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="1911" data-file-height="1944"/></span></span></span><span class="portalbox-link"><a href="/wiki/Portal:Biography" title="Portal:Biography">Biography portal</a></span></li></ul>This article is within the scope of <b><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Biography" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Biography">WikiProject Biography</a></b>, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Wikipedia's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Biography/Members" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Biography/Members">join the project</a> and <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Biography" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Biography">contribute to the discussion</a>. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the <a href="/wiki/Template:WikiProject_Biography/doc" title="Template:WikiProject Biography/doc">documentation</a>.<span class="metadata wpb-metadata"><span class="wpb-project">Biography</span><span class="wpb-project_link">Wikipedia:WikiProject Biography</span><span class="wpb-banner_name">Template:WikiProject Biography</span><span class="wpb-assessment_cat">biography articles</span></span></td><td class="mbox-empty-cell"></td></tr><tr><td><figure class="mw-default-size mw-halign-center" typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Swords.svg" class="mw-file-description"><img alt="Taskforce icon" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/7c/Swords.svg/25px-Swords.svg.png" decoding="async" width="25" height="25" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/7c/Swords.svg/38px-Swords.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/7c/Swords.svg/50px-Swords.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="200" data-file-height="200"/></a><figcaption></figcaption></figure></td><td class="mbox-text" colspan="2">This article is supported by <b><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Biography/Military" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Biography/Military">the military biography work group</a></b> (assessed as <a href="/wiki/Category:Low-importance_biography_(military)_articles" title="Category:Low-importance biography (military) articles">Low-importance</a>).</td></tr><tr><td><figure class="mw-default-size mw-halign-center" typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Camera-photo.svg" class="mw-file-description"><img alt="Note icon" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/8/80/Camera-photo.svg/25px-Camera-photo.svg.png" decoding="async" width="25" height="25" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/8/80/Camera-photo.svg/38px-Camera-photo.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/8/80/Camera-photo.svg/50px-Camera-photo.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="48" data-file-height="48"/></a><figcaption></figcaption></figure></td><td class="mbox-text" colspan="2">An editor has requested that an <b>image</b> or <b>photograph</b> be <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Uploading_images" title="Wikipedia:Uploading images">added</a> to this article.</td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr></tbody></table> <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1237879475"><link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1256394742"><table class="tmbox tmbox-notice mw-collapsible innercollapse wpb wpb-table"><tbody><tr class="wpb-header"><td class="wpb-header-icon"><span typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Flag_of_Palestine.svg" class="mw-file-description"><img alt="WikiProject icon" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/00/Flag_of_Palestine.svg/35px-Flag_of_Palestine.svg.png" decoding="async" width="35" height="18" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/00/Flag_of_Palestine.svg/53px-Flag_of_Palestine.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/00/Flag_of_Palestine.svg/70px-Flag_of_Palestine.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="1200" data-file-height="600"/></a></span></td><td class="wpb-header-combined"><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Palestine" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Palestine">Palestine</a> <span class="wpb-header-bubbles import-mid">Mid‑importance</span></td></tr><tr><td class="mbox-text wpb-main" colspan="2"><table><tbody><tr><td class="mbox-image wpb-image"><span typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Flag_of_Palestine.svg" class="mw-file-description"><img alt="WikiProject icon" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/00/Flag_of_Palestine.svg/80px-Flag_of_Palestine.svg.png" decoding="async" width="80" height="40" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/00/Flag_of_Palestine.svg/120px-Flag_of_Palestine.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/00/Flag_of_Palestine.svg/160px-Flag_of_Palestine.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="1200" data-file-height="600"/></a></span></td><td class="mbox-text"><link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1239009302"><ul role="navigation" aria-label="Portals" class="noprint portalbox portalborder portalright"> <li class="portalbox-entry"><span class="portalbox-image"><span class="mw-image-border noviewer" typeof="mw:File"><span><img alt="flag" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/00/Flag_of_Palestine.svg/32px-Flag_of_Palestine.svg.png" decoding="async" width="32" height="16" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/00/Flag_of_Palestine.svg/48px-Flag_of_Palestine.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/00/Flag_of_Palestine.svg/64px-Flag_of_Palestine.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="1200" data-file-height="600"/></span></span></span><span class="portalbox-link"><a href="/wiki/Portal:Palestine" title="Portal:Palestine">Palestine portal</a></span></li></ul>This article is within the scope of <b><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Palestine" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Palestine">WikiProject Palestine</a></b>, a team effort dedicated to building and maintaining comprehensive, informative and balanced articles related to the geographic <a href="/wiki/Palestine_(region)" title="Palestine (region)">Palestine</a> region, the <a href="/wiki/Palestinian_people" class="mw-redirect" title="Palestinian people">Palestinian people</a> and the <a href="/wiki/State_of_Palestine" title="State of Palestine">State of Palestine</a> on Wikipedia. Join us by visiting <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Palestine" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Palestine">the project page</a>, where you can add your name to the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Palestine/Members" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Palestine/Members">list of members</a> where you can contribute to the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Palestine" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Palestine">discussions</a>.<span class="metadata wpb-metadata"><span class="wpb-project">Palestine</span><span class="wpb-project_link">Wikipedia:WikiProject Palestine</span><span class="wpb-banner_name">Template:WikiProject Palestine</span><span class="wpb-assessment_cat">Palestine-related articles</span></span></td><td class="mbox-empty-cell"></td></tr><tr><td class="assess import-mid"><a href="/wiki/Category:Mid-importance_Palestine-related_articles" title="Category:Mid-importance Palestine-related articles">Mid</a></td><td class="mbox-text" colspan="2">This article has been rated as <b>Mid-importance</b> on the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Palestine/Assessment#Importance_scale" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Palestine/Assessment">project's importance scale</a>.</td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr></tbody></table> <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1237879475"><link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1256394742"><table class="tmbox tmbox-notice mw-collapsible innercollapse wpb wpb-table"><tbody><tr class="wpb-header"><td class="wpb-header-icon"><span typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Arrest.svg" class="mw-file-description"><img alt="WikiProject icon" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/3d/Arrest.svg/25px-Arrest.svg.png" decoding="async" width="25" height="25" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/3d/Arrest.svg/38px-Arrest.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/3d/Arrest.svg/50px-Arrest.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="300" data-file-height="300"/></a></span></td><td class="wpb-header-combined"><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Crime_and_Criminal_Biography" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Crime and Criminal Biography">Crime and Criminal Biography</a><span class="wpb-nested-task-force">: <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Crime_and_Criminal_Biography/Terrorism_task_force" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Crime and Criminal Biography/Terrorism task force">Terrorism</a></span> <span class="wpb-header-bubbles import-low">Low‑importance</span></td></tr><tr><td class="mbox-text wpb-main" colspan="2"><table><tbody><tr><td class="mbox-image wpb-image"><span typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Arrest.svg" class="mw-file-description"><img alt="WikiProject icon" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/3d/Arrest.svg/60px-Arrest.svg.png" decoding="async" width="60" height="60" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/3d/Arrest.svg/90px-Arrest.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/3d/Arrest.svg/120px-Arrest.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="300" data-file-height="300"/></a></span></td><td class="mbox-text">This article is within the scope of <b><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Crime_and_Criminal_Biography" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Crime and Criminal Biography">WikiProject Crime and Criminal Biography</a></b>, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Crime and Criminal Biography articles on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Crime_and_Criminal_Biography" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Crime and Criminal Biography">the discussion</a> and see a list of open tasks.<span class="metadata wpb-metadata"><span class="wpb-project">Crime and Criminal Biography</span><span class="wpb-project_link">Wikipedia:WikiProject Crime and Criminal Biography</span><span class="wpb-banner_name">Template:WikiProject Crime and Criminal Biography</span><span class="wpb-assessment_cat">Crime-related articles</span></span></td><td class="mbox-empty-cell"></td></tr><tr><td class="assess import-low"><a href="/wiki/Category:Low-importance_Crime-related_articles" title="Category:Low-importance Crime-related articles">Low</a></td><td class="mbox-text" colspan="2">This article has been rated as <b>Low-importance</b> on the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Crime_and_Criminal_Biography/Assessment#Importance_scale" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Crime and Criminal Biography/Assessment">project's importance scale</a>.</td></tr><tr><td><figure class="mw-default-size mw-halign-center" typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Bomby_trans.svg" class="mw-file-description"><img alt="Taskforce icon" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/b5/Bomby_trans.svg/30px-Bomby_trans.svg.png" decoding="async" width="30" height="25" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/b5/Bomby_trans.svg/45px-Bomby_trans.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/b5/Bomby_trans.svg/60px-Bomby_trans.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="513" data-file-height="431"/></a><figcaption></figcaption></figure></td><td class="mbox-text" colspan="2">This article is supported by <b><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Crime_and_Criminal_Biography/Terrorism_task_force" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Crime and Criminal Biography/Terrorism task force">the Terrorism task force</a></b> (assessed as <a href="/wiki/Category:Low-importance_Terrorism_articles" title="Category:Low-importance Terrorism articles">Low-importance</a>).</td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr></tbody></table> <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1237879475"><link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1256394742"><table class="tmbox tmbox-notice mw-collapsible innercollapse wpb wpb-table"><tbody><tr class="wpb-header"><td class="wpb-header-icon"><span typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Caucasian_Human_Skull.jpg" class="mw-file-description"><img alt="WikiProject icon" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/37/Caucasian_Human_Skull.jpg/19px-Caucasian_Human_Skull.jpg" decoding="async" width="19" height="25" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/37/Caucasian_Human_Skull.jpg/28px-Caucasian_Human_Skull.jpg 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/37/Caucasian_Human_Skull.jpg/37px-Caucasian_Human_Skull.jpg 2x" data-file-width="405" data-file-height="540"/></a></span></td><td class="wpb-header-combined"><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Death" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Death">Death</a> <span class="wpb-header-bubbles import-low">Low‑importance</span></td></tr><tr><td class="mbox-text wpb-main" colspan="2"><table><tbody><tr><td class="mbox-image wpb-image"><span typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Caucasian_Human_Skull.jpg" class="mw-file-description"><img alt="WikiProject icon" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/37/Caucasian_Human_Skull.jpg/80px-Caucasian_Human_Skull.jpg" decoding="async" width="80" height="107" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/37/Caucasian_Human_Skull.jpg/120px-Caucasian_Human_Skull.jpg 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/37/Caucasian_Human_Skull.jpg/160px-Caucasian_Human_Skull.jpg 2x" data-file-width="405" data-file-height="540"/></a></span></td><td class="mbox-text">This article is within the scope of <b><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Death" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Death">WikiProject Death</a></b>, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of <a href="/wiki/Death" title="Death">Death</a> on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Death" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Death">the discussion</a> and see a list of open tasks.<span class="metadata wpb-metadata"><span class="wpb-project">Death</span><span class="wpb-project_link">Wikipedia:WikiProject Death</span><span class="wpb-banner_name">Template:WikiProject Death</span><span class="wpb-assessment_cat">Death articles</span></span></td><td class="mbox-empty-cell"></td></tr><tr><td class="assess import-low"><a href="/wiki/Category:Low-importance_Death_articles" title="Category:Low-importance Death articles">Low</a></td><td class="mbox-text" colspan="2">This article has been rated as <b>Low-importance</b> on the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Death/Assessment#Importance_scale" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Death/Assessment">project's importance scale</a>.</td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr></tbody></table> <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1237879475"><link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1256394742"><table class="tmbox tmbox-notice mw-collapsible innercollapse wpb wpb-table"><tbody><tr class="wpb-header"><td class="wpb-header-icon"><span typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Waricon.svg" class="mw-file-description"><img alt="WikiProject icon" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/6/65/Waricon.svg/25px-Waricon.svg.png" decoding="async" width="25" height="25" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/6/65/Waricon.svg/38px-Waricon.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/6/65/Waricon.svg/50px-Waricon.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="140" data-file-height="140"/></a></span></td><td class="wpb-header-combined"><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Military_history" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Military history">Military history</a><span class="wpb-nested-task-force">: <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Biography/Military" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Biography/Military">Biography</a> / <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Military_history/Middle_Eastern_military_history_task_force" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Military history/Middle Eastern military history task force">Middle East</a> / <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Military_history/North_American_military_history_task_force" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Military history/North American military history task force">North America</a> / <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Military_history/United_States_military_history_task_force" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Military history/United States military history task force">United States</a> / <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Military_history/Cold_War_task_force" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Military history/Cold War task force">Cold War</a></span> </td></tr><tr><td class="mbox-text wpb-main" colspan="2"><table><tbody><tr><td class="mbox-image wpb-image"><span typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Waricon.svg" class="mw-file-description"><img alt="WikiProject icon" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/6/65/Waricon.svg/50px-Waricon.svg.png" decoding="async" width="50" height="50" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/6/65/Waricon.svg/75px-Waricon.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/6/65/Waricon.svg/100px-Waricon.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="140" data-file-height="140"/></a></span></td><td class="mbox-text">This article is within the scope of the <b><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Military_history" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Military history">Military history WikiProject</a></b>. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the project and see a <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Military_history/Open_tasks" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Military history/Open tasks">list of open tasks</a>. To use this banner, please see the <a href="/wiki/Template:WikiProject_Military_history" title="Template:WikiProject Military history">full instructions</a>.<span class="metadata wpb-metadata"><span class="wpb-project">Military history</span><span class="wpb-project_link">Wikipedia:WikiProject Military history</span><span class="wpb-banner_name">Template:WikiProject Military history</span><span class="wpb-assessment_cat">military history articles</span></span></td><td class="mbox-empty-cell"></td></tr><tr><td class="assess-b" style="padding-bottom:5px"><figure class="mw-halign-center" typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Content_assessment/B-Class_criteria" title="Wikipedia:Content assessment/B-Class criteria"><img alt="B checklist" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/2/25/Bclass-checklist.svg/20px-Bclass-checklist.svg.png" decoding="async" width="20" height="20" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/2/25/Bclass-checklist.svg/30px-Bclass-checklist.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/2/25/Bclass-checklist.svg/40px-Bclass-checklist.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="100" data-file-height="100"/></a><figcaption></figcaption></figure></td><td class="wpb-collapsed-notes"><table class="plainlinks mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"><tbody><tr><th class="wpb-collapsed-head mbox-text" colspan="3" style="font-weight:normal">This article has been checked against the following <b><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Military_history/Assessment#Quality_scale" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Military history/Assessment">criteria</a></b> for B-class status:</th><td style="min-width:3em"></td></tr><tr><td style="font-size:90%"><ol><li><span typeof="mw:File"><span><img alt="" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/03/Green_check.svg/16px-Green_check.svg.png" decoding="async" width="16" height="16" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/03/Green_check.svg/24px-Green_check.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/03/Green_check.svg/32px-Green_check.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="600" data-file-height="600"/></span></span> Referencing and citation: <span style="font-style:italic">criterion met</span></li><li><span typeof="mw:File"><span><img alt="" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/03/Green_check.svg/16px-Green_check.svg.png" decoding="async" width="16" height="16" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/03/Green_check.svg/24px-Green_check.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/03/Green_check.svg/32px-Green_check.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="600" data-file-height="600"/></span></span> Coverage and accuracy: <span style="font-style:italic">criterion met</span></li><li><span typeof="mw:File"><span><img alt="" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/03/Green_check.svg/16px-Green_check.svg.png" decoding="async" width="16" height="16" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/03/Green_check.svg/24px-Green_check.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/03/Green_check.svg/32px-Green_check.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="600" data-file-height="600"/></span></span> Structure: <span style="font-style:italic">criterion met</span></li><li><span typeof="mw:File"><span><img alt="" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/03/Green_check.svg/16px-Green_check.svg.png" decoding="async" width="16" height="16" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/03/Green_check.svg/24px-Green_check.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/03/Green_check.svg/32px-Green_check.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="600" data-file-height="600"/></span></span> Grammar and style: <span style="font-style:italic">criterion met</span></li><li><span typeof="mw:File"><span><img alt="" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/03/Green_check.svg/16px-Green_check.svg.png" decoding="async" width="16" height="16" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/03/Green_check.svg/24px-Green_check.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/03/Green_check.svg/32px-Green_check.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="600" data-file-height="600"/></span></span> Supporting materials: <span style="font-style:italic">criterion met</span></li></ol></td><td style="font-size:88%"></td><td class="empty-cell"></td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr><tr><td colspan="3" class="wpb-collapsed-notes"><table class="mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"><tbody><tr><th colspan="3" class="wpb-collapsed-head">Associated task forces:</th></tr><tr><td class="mbox-image wpb-gutter" style="min-width:50px"><span class="wpb-iefix">/ </span></td><td></td><td></td></tr><tr><td><figure class="mw-halign-center" typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Crystal_personal.svg" class="mw-file-description"><img alt="Taskforce icon" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/2/24/Crystal_personal.svg/30px-Crystal_personal.svg.png" decoding="async" width="30" height="30" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/2/24/Crystal_personal.svg/45px-Crystal_personal.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/2/24/Crystal_personal.svg/60px-Crystal_personal.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="70" data-file-height="70"/></a><figcaption></figcaption></figure></td><td class="mbox-text" colspan="2"><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Biography/Military" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Biography/Military">Military biography task force</a></td></tr><tr><td><figure class="mw-halign-center" typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Middle_East_geographic.jpg" class="mw-file-description"><img alt="Taskforce icon" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/f9/Middle_East_geographic.jpg/34px-Middle_East_geographic.jpg" decoding="async" width="34" height="30" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/f9/Middle_East_geographic.jpg/50px-Middle_East_geographic.jpg 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/f9/Middle_East_geographic.jpg/67px-Middle_East_geographic.jpg 2x" data-file-width="1026" data-file-height="918"/></a><figcaption></figcaption></figure></td><td class="mbox-text" colspan="2"><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Military_history/Middle_Eastern_military_history_task_force" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Military history/Middle Eastern military history task force">Middle Eastern military history task force</a></td></tr><tr><td><figure class="mw-halign-center" typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:North_America_satellite_orthographic.jpg" class="mw-file-description"><img alt="Taskforce icon" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/29/North_America_satellite_orthographic.jpg/28px-North_America_satellite_orthographic.jpg" decoding="async" width="28" height="30" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/29/North_America_satellite_orthographic.jpg/42px-North_America_satellite_orthographic.jpg 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/29/North_America_satellite_orthographic.jpg/56px-North_America_satellite_orthographic.jpg 2x" data-file-width="1624" data-file-height="1748"/></a><figcaption></figcaption></figure></td><td class="mbox-text" colspan="2"><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Military_history/North_American_military_history_task_force" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Military history/North American military history task force">North American military history task force</a></td></tr><tr><td><figure class="mw-halign-center" typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:United_States_Arms.svg" class="mw-file-description"><img alt="Taskforce icon" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/28/United_States_Arms.svg/27px-United_States_Arms.svg.png" decoding="async" width="27" height="30" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/28/United_States_Arms.svg/41px-United_States_Arms.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/28/United_States_Arms.svg/54px-United_States_Arms.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="600" data-file-height="660"/></a><figcaption></figcaption></figure></td><td class="mbox-text" colspan="2"><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Military_history/United_States_military_history_task_force" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Military history/United States military history task force">United States military history task force</a></td></tr><tr><td><figure class="mw-halign-center" typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Cold_War_Map_1959.svg" class="mw-file-description"><img alt="Taskforce icon" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/15/Cold_War_Map_1959.svg/43px-Cold_War_Map_1959.svg.png" decoding="async" width="43" height="22" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/15/Cold_War_Map_1959.svg/65px-Cold_War_Map_1959.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/15/Cold_War_Map_1959.svg/86px-Cold_War_Map_1959.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="940" data-file-height="477"/></a><figcaption></figcaption></figure></td><td class="mbox-text" colspan="2"><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Military_history/Cold_War_task_force" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Military history/Cold War task force">Cold War task force</a> (c. 1945 – c. 1989)</td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr></tbody></table> <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1237879475"><table class="plainlinks tmbox tmbox-notice" role="presentation"><tbody><tr><td class="mbox-image"><span typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Commons-emblem-hand.svg" class="mw-file-description"><img src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/16/Commons-emblem-hand.svg/40px-Commons-emblem-hand.svg.png" decoding="async" width="40" height="40" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/16/Commons-emblem-hand.svg/60px-Commons-emblem-hand.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/16/Commons-emblem-hand.svg/80px-Commons-emblem-hand.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="48" data-file-height="48"/></a></span></td><td class="mbox-text"><strong style="text-transform: uppercase;">Warning: active arbitration remedies</strong><p>The <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Contentious_topics" title="Wikipedia:Contentious topics">contentious topics</a> procedure applies to this article. This article is related to the <a href="/wiki/Arab%E2%80%93Israeli_conflict" title="Arab–Israeli conflict">Arab–Israeli conflict</a>, which is a contentious topic. Furthermore, the following rules apply when editing this article:</p><b> <div><ul><li>You must be logged-in and <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:User_access_levels#Extendedconfirmed" title="Wikipedia:User access levels">extended-confirmed</a> to edit or discuss this topic on any page (except for <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Edit_requests#Making_requests" title="Wikipedia:Edit requests">making edit requests</a>, provided they are not disruptive)</li><li>You may not make more than 1 revert within 24 hours on any edits related to this topic</li></ul></div></b><p>Editors who repeatedly or seriously fail to adhere to the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Five_pillars" title="Wikipedia:Five pillars">purpose of Wikipedia</a>, any expected <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Etiquette" title="Wikipedia:Etiquette">standards of behaviour</a>, or any <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:List_of_policies" title="Wikipedia:List of policies">normal editorial process</a> may be blocked or restricted by an administrator. Editors are advised to familiarise themselves with the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Contentious_topics" title="Wikipedia:Contentious topics">contentious topics procedures</a> before editing this page.</p> <table class="mw-collapsible mw-archivedtalk mw-collapsed" style="background-color: transparent; text-align: left; border: 1px solid var(--border-color-subtle, #c8ccd1); margin: 0.2em auto auto; width:100%; clear: both; padding: 1px;"> <tbody><tr> <th style="background-color: #EEE8AA; font-size:87%; padding:0.2em 0.3em; text-align: left;"><div style="display: inline; font-size: 115%; color: #202122;">Further information</div> </th></tr> <tr> <td style="border: solid 1px var(--border-color-subtle, #c8ccd1); padding: 8px; background-color: var(--background-color-base, #fff); color: var(--color-base, #202122);"> <div>The exceptions to the extended confirmed restriction are: <ol><li>Non-extended-confirmed editors may use the "Talk:" namespace <strong>only to <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Edit_requests#Making_requests" title="Wikipedia:Edit requests">make edit requests</a></strong> related to articles within the topic area, provided they are not disruptive.</li> <li>Non-extended-confirmed editors may not create new articles, but administrators may exercise discretion when deciding how to enforce this remedy on article creations. 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When in doubt, don't revert!</div> </td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr></tbody></table> <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1237879475"><table id="refideas-anchor" class="tmbox tmbox-notice" role="presentation"><tbody><tr><td class="mbox-image"><span typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Nuvola_apps_package_editors.png" class="mw-file-description"><img src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/bd/Nuvola_apps_package_editors.png/50px-Nuvola_apps_package_editors.png" decoding="async" width="50" height="50" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/bd/Nuvola_apps_package_editors.png/75px-Nuvola_apps_package_editors.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/bd/Nuvola_apps_package_editors.png/100px-Nuvola_apps_package_editors.png 2x" data-file-width="128" data-file-height="128"/></a></span></td><td class="mbox-text">The following references may be useful when improving this article in the future:<br/> <ul><li><style data-mw-deduplicate="TemplateStyles:r1238218222">.mw-parser-output cite.citation{font-style:inherit;word-wrap:break-word}.mw-parser-output .citation q{quotes:"\"""\"""'""'"}.mw-parser-output .citation:target{background-color:rgba(0,127,255,0.133)}.mw-parser-output .id-lock-free.id-lock-free a{background:url("//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/65/Lock-green.svg")right 0.1em center/9px no-repeat}.mw-parser-output .id-lock-limited.id-lock-limited a,.mw-parser-output .id-lock-registration.id-lock-registration a{background:url("//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d6/Lock-gray-alt-2.svg")right 0.1em center/9px no-repeat}.mw-parser-output .id-lock-subscription.id-lock-subscription a{background:url("//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/aa/Lock-red-alt-2.svg")right 0.1em center/9px no-repeat}.mw-parser-output .cs1-ws-icon a{background:url("//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4c/Wikisource-logo.svg")right 0.1em center/12px no-repeat}body:not(.skin-timeless):not(.skin-minerva) .mw-parser-output .id-lock-free a,body:not(.skin-timeless):not(.skin-minerva) .mw-parser-output .id-lock-limited a,body:not(.skin-timeless):not(.skin-minerva) .mw-parser-output .id-lock-registration a,body:not(.skin-timeless):not(.skin-minerva) .mw-parser-output .id-lock-subscription a,body:not(.skin-timeless):not(.skin-minerva) .mw-parser-output .cs1-ws-icon a{background-size:contain;padding:0 1em 0 0}.mw-parser-output .cs1-code{color:inherit;background:inherit;border:none;padding:inherit}.mw-parser-output .cs1-hidden-error{display:none;color:var(--color-error,#d33)}.mw-parser-output .cs1-visible-error{color:var(--color-error,#d33)}.mw-parser-output .cs1-maint{display:none;color:#085;margin-left:0.3em}.mw-parser-output .cs1-kern-left{padding-left:0.2em}.mw-parser-output .cs1-kern-right{padding-right:0.2em}.mw-parser-output .citation .mw-selflink{font-weight:inherit}@media screen{.mw-parser-output .cs1-format{font-size:95%}html.skin-theme-clientpref-night .mw-parser-output .cs1-maint{color:#18911f}}@media screen and (prefers-color-scheme:dark){html.skin-theme-clientpref-os .mw-parser-output .cs1-maint{color:#18911f}}</style><cite class="citation news cs1"><a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://www.icc-cpi.int/news/situation-state-palestine-icc-pre-trial-chamber-i-rejects-state-israels-challenges">"Situation in the State of Palestine: ICC Pre-Trial Chamber I rejects the State of Israel's challenges to jurisdiction and issues warrants of arrest for Benjamin Netanyahu and Yoav Gallant Image"</a>. <i>www.icc-cpi.int</i>. 21 November 2024<span class="reference-accessdate">. Retrieved <span class="nowrap">21 November</span> 2024</span>.</cite><span title="ctx_ver=Z39.88-2004&rft_val_fmt=info%3Aofi%2Ffmt%3Akev%3Amtx%3Ajournal&rft.genre=article&rft.jtitle=www.icc-cpi.int&rft.atitle=Situation+in+the+State+of+Palestine%3A+ICC+Pre-Trial+Chamber+I+rejects+the+State+of+Israel%E2%80%99s+challenges+to+jurisdiction+and+issues+warrants+of+arrest+for+Benjamin+Netanyahu+and+Yoav+Gallant+Image&rft.date=2024-11-21&rft_id=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.icc-cpi.int%2Fnews%2Fsituation-state-palestine-icc-pre-trial-chamber-i-rejects-state-israels-challenges&rfr_id=info%3Asid%2Fen.wikipedia.org%3ATalk%3AMohammed+Deif" class="Z3988"></span></li> <li><link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1238218222"><cite class="citation audio-visual cs1"><a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n0f361ucubk&ab_channel=BBCNews"><i>Arrest warrants issued for Netanyahu, Gallant and Hamas commander over alleged war crimes | BBC News</i></a>. 21 November 2024<span class="reference-accessdate">. Retrieved <span class="nowrap">21 November</span> 2024</span>.</cite><span title="ctx_ver=Z39.88-2004&rft_val_fmt=info%3Aofi%2Ffmt%3Akev%3Amtx%3Abook&rft.genre=unknown&rft.btitle=Arrest+warrants+issued+for+Netanyahu%2C+Gallant+and+Hamas+commander+over+alleged+war+crimes+%7C+BBC+News&rft.date=2024-11-21&rft_id=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3Dn0f361ucubk%26ab_channel%3DBBCNews&rfr_id=info%3Asid%2Fen.wikipedia.org%3ATalk%3AMohammed+Deif" class="Z3988"></span></li> <li><link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1238218222"><cite class="citation news cs1"><a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/what-icc-said-arrest-warrants-against-gallant-netanyahu-hamas-leader-deif-2024-11-21/">"What the ICC said on the arrest warrants against Gallant, Netanyahu and Hamas leader Deif"</a>. <i><a href="/wiki/Reuters" title="Reuters">Reuters</a></i>. 22 November 2024<span class="reference-accessdate">. Retrieved <span class="nowrap">21 November</span> 2024</span>. <q><small>The Chamber found that the alleged conduct of Mr Netanyahu and Mr Gallant concerned the activities of Israeli government bodies and the armed forces against the civilian population in Palestine, more specifically civilians in Gaza.</small></q></cite><span title="ctx_ver=Z39.88-2004&rft_val_fmt=info%3Aofi%2Ffmt%3Akev%3Amtx%3Ajournal&rft.genre=article&rft.jtitle=Reuters&rft.atitle=What+the+ICC+said+on+the+arrest+warrants+against+Gallant%2C+Netanyahu+and+Hamas+leader+Deif&rft.date=2024-11-22&rft_id=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.reuters.com%2Fworld%2Fmiddle-east%2Fwhat-icc-said-arrest-warrants-against-gallant-netanyahu-hamas-leader-deif-2024-11-21%2F&rfr_id=info%3Asid%2Fen.wikipedia.org%3ATalk%3AMohammed+Deif" class="Z3988"></span></li> <li><link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1238218222"><cite class="citation news cs1"><a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://www.france24.com/en/live-news/20241121-icc-issues-arrest-warrants-for-netanyahu-gallant-deif">"ICC issues arrest warrants for Netanyahu, Gallant, Deif"</a>. <i>www.france24.com <a href="/wiki/France_24" title="France 24">France 24</a></i>. 21 November 2024<span class="reference-accessdate">. Retrieved <span class="nowrap">21 November</span> 2024</span>.</cite><span title="ctx_ver=Z39.88-2004&rft_val_fmt=info%3Aofi%2Ffmt%3Akev%3Amtx%3Ajournal&rft.genre=article&rft.jtitle=www.france24.com+France+24&rft.atitle=ICC+issues+arrest+warrants+for+Netanyahu%2C+Gallant%2C+Deif&rft.date=2024-11-21&rft_id=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.france24.com%2Fen%2Flive-news%2F20241121-icc-issues-arrest-warrants-for-netanyahu-gallant-deif&rfr_id=info%3Asid%2Fen.wikipedia.org%3ATalk%3AMohammed+Deif" class="Z3988"></span></li> <li><link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1238218222"><cite id="CITEREFNick_Spicer2024" class="citation news cs1">Nick Spicer (21 November 2024). <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://www.npr.org/2024/11/21/g-s1-35169/icc-israel-hamas-arrest-warrants-gaza">"The International Criminal Court has issued arrest warrants for Netanyahu and Gallant"</a>. <i>www.npr.org <a href="/wiki/NPR" title="NPR">NPR</a></i><span class="reference-accessdate">. Retrieved <span class="nowrap">21 November</span> 2024</span>. <q><small>Israel rejects the court's allegations, which include the use of starvation as a weapon of war and "intentionally directing an attack against the civilian population." The ICC also issued a warrant Thursday for the arrest of Muhammad Deif, Hamas' military chief.</small></q></cite><span title="ctx_ver=Z39.88-2004&rft_val_fmt=info%3Aofi%2Ffmt%3Akev%3Amtx%3Ajournal&rft.genre=article&rft.jtitle=www.npr.org+NPR&rft.atitle=The+International+Criminal+Court+has+issued+arrest+warrants+for+Netanyahu+and+Gallant&rft.date=2024-11-21&rft.au=Nick+Spicer&rft_id=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.npr.org%2F2024%2F11%2F21%2Fg-s1-35169%2Ficc-israel-hamas-arrest-warrants-gaza&rfr_id=info%3Asid%2Fen.wikipedia.org%3ATalk%3AMohammed+Deif" class="Z3988"></span><br/></li></ul></td></tr></tbody></table> <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1237879475"> <table id="archivebox" role="presentation" class="tmbox tmbox-notice" style="text-align: center; padding: 1em; min-width:80%;"> <tbody><tr> <td rowspan="3" class="mbox-image" style="width:52px;"> <p><span typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Replacement_filing_cabinet.svg" class="mw-file-description"><img src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/2/2a/Replacement_filing_cabinet.svg/40px-Replacement_filing_cabinet.svg.png" decoding="async" width="40" height="40" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/2/2a/Replacement_filing_cabinet.svg/60px-Replacement_filing_cabinet.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/2/2a/Replacement_filing_cabinet.svg/80px-Replacement_filing_cabinet.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="200" data-file-height="200"/></a></span> </p> </td> <td class="plainlinks mbox-text"> <p>Archives: <a href="/wiki/Talk:Mohammed_Deif/Archive_1" title="Talk:Mohammed Deif/Archive 1">1</a> </p> </td> </tr><tr><td style="padding-bottom:11px"><div class="mw-inputbox-centered" style=""><form name="searchbox" class="searchbox mw-inputbox-form-inline" action="/wiki/Special:Search"><div class="cdx-text-input"><input class="mw-searchInput searchboxInput cdx-text-input__input" name="search" placeholder="" size="50" dir="ltr"/></div><input type="hidden" value="Talk:Mohammed Deif/" name="prefix"/> <input type="submit" name="fulltext" value="Search archives" class="cdx-button"/><input type="hidden" value="Search" name="fulltext"/></form></div> </td></tr><tr><td colspan="2" style="padding:0px 10px; font-size:11.9px; text-align:center;"> <hr/> This page has archives. Sections older than <b>20 days</b> may be automatically archived by <span class="nowraplinks"><a href="/wiki/User:Lowercase_sigmabot_III" title="User:Lowercase sigmabot III">Lowercase sigmabot III</a></span>.</td></tr> </tbody></table> <p class="mw-empty-elt"> </p> <meta property="mw:PageProp/toc"/> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Survived_5_other_attacks?" data-mw-thread-id="h-Survived_5_other_attacks?"><span id="Survived_5_other_attacks.3F"></span><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Survived_5_other_attacks?"></span>Survived 5 other attacks?<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Survived_5_other_attacks?"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Talk:Mohammed_Deif&action=edit&section=1" title="Edit section: Survived 5 other attacks?"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span></div> <p>If this is true and not hearsay, a reference should be included. </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Why_is_Hamas’_claims_of_him_being_alive_given_more_weight_than_the_IDF’s_assertions_he’s_dead?" data-mw-thread-id="h-Why_is_Hamas’_claims_of_him_being_alive_given_more_weight_than_the_IDF’s_ass-20240825114100"><span id="Why_is_Hamas.E2.80.99_claims_of_him_being_alive_given_more_weight_than_the_IDF.E2.80.99s_assertions_he.E2.80.99s_dead.3F"></span><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Why_is_Hamas’_claims_of_him_being_alive_given_more_weight_than_the_IDF’s_ass-20240825114100"></span>Why is Hamas’ claims of him being alive given more weight than the IDF’s assertions he’s dead?<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Why_is_Hamas’_claims_of_him_being_alive_given_more_weight_than_the_IDF’s_ass-20240825114100"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Talk:Mohammed_Deif&action=edit&section=2" title="Edit section: Why is Hamas’ claims of him being alive given more weight than the IDF’s assertions he’s dead?"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-2401:D002:8705:D400:E947:7A4C:5443:534D-20240825114100-Why_is_Hamas’_claims_of_him_being_alive_given_more_weight_than_the_IDF’s_ass"></span>Hamas is a terrorist group that has nothing to gain by confirming his death. It will only hurt their morale. On the other hand, the IDF’s intelligence confirming Deif was eliminated in the strike seems pretty well supported. For what it’s worth, Hamas hasn’t confirmed Marwan Issa’s death either but that’s still confirmed according to Wikipedia. So why the double standard for Deif? <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/2401:D002:8705:D400:E947:7A4C:5443:534D" title="Special:Contributions/2401:D002:8705:D400:E947:7A4C:5443:534D">2401:D002:8705:D400:E947:7A4C:5443:534D</a> (<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:2401:D002:8705:D400:E947:7A4C:5443:534D&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User talk:2401:D002:8705:D400:E947:7A4C:5443:534D (page does not exist)">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Mohammed_Deif#c-2401:D002:8705:D400:E947:7A4C:5443:534D-20240825114100-Why_is_Hamas’_claims_of_him_being_alive_given_more_weight_than_the_IDF’s_ass" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">11:41, 25 August 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-2401:D002:8705:D400:E947:7A4C:5443:534D-20240825114100-Why_is_Hamas’_claims_of_him_being_alive_given_more_weight_than_the_IDF’s_ass"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-2401:D002:8705:D400:E947:7A4C:5443:534D-20240825114100-Why_is_Hamas’_claims_of_him_being_alive_given_more_weight_than_the_IDF’s_ass"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-2600:1700:E255:10:5C12:F40:3B57:33BD-20240826214200-2401:D002:8705:D400:E947:7A4C:5443:534D-20240825114100"></span>Because it's Wikipedia. It's not supposed to make sense. <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/2600:1700:E255:10:5C12:F40:3B57:33BD" title="Special:Contributions/2600:1700:E255:10:5C12:F40:3B57:33BD">2600:1700:E255:10:5C12:F40:3B57:33BD</a> (<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:2600:1700:E255:10:5C12:F40:3B57:33BD&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User talk:2600:1700:E255:10:5C12:F40:3B57:33BD (page does not exist)">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Mohammed_Deif#c-2600:1700:E255:10:5C12:F40:3B57:33BD-20240826214200-2401:D002:8705:D400:E947:7A4C:5443:534D-20240825114100" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:42, 26 August 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-2600:1700:E255:10:5C12:F40:3B57:33BD-20240826214200-2401:D002:8705:D400:E947:7A4C:5443:534D-20240825114100"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-2600:1700:E255:10:5C12:F40:3B57:33BD-20240826214200-2401:D002:8705:D400:E947:7A4C:5443:534D-20240825114100"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-2603:9008:2101:E2F3:425:A6EF:6530:D9C3-20240828040400-2600:1700:E255:10:5C12:F40:3B57:33BD-20240826214200"></span>So true. <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/2603:9008:2101:E2F3:425:A6EF:6530:D9C3" title="Special:Contributions/2603:9008:2101:E2F3:425:A6EF:6530:D9C3">2603:9008:2101:E2F3:425:A6EF:6530:D9C3</a> (<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:2603:9008:2101:E2F3:425:A6EF:6530:D9C3&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User talk:2603:9008:2101:E2F3:425:A6EF:6530:D9C3 (page does not exist)">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Mohammed_Deif#c-2603:9008:2101:E2F3:425:A6EF:6530:D9C3-20240828040400-2600:1700:E255:10:5C12:F40:3B57:33BD-20240826214200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">04:04, 28 August 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-2603:9008:2101:E2F3:425:A6EF:6530:D9C3-20240828040400-2600:1700:E255:10:5C12:F40:3B57:33BD-20240826214200"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-2603:9008:2101:E2F3:425:A6EF:6530:D9C3-20240828040400-2600:1700:E255:10:5C12:F40:3B57:33BD-20240826214200"></span></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-LesbianTiamat-20241103175900-2600:1700:E255:10:5C12:F40:3B57:33BD-20240826214200"></span>Hamas admitted it.</dd> <dd>No reason for this discussion to continue.</dd> <dd>Citation: <a rel="nofollow" class="external free" href="https://www.timesofisrael.com/hamas-now-accepts-israel-killed-muhammad-deif-has-arrested-2-people-sources-tell-paper/">https://www.timesofisrael.com/hamas-now-accepts-israel-killed-muhammad-deif-has-arrested-2-people-sources-tell-paper/</a></dd> <dd><a href="/wiki/User:LesbianTiamat" title="User:LesbianTiamat">LesbianTiamat (She/Her)</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:LesbianTiamat" title="User talk:LesbianTiamat">troll/pester</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Mohammed_Deif#c-LesbianTiamat-20241103175900-2600:1700:E255:10:5C12:F40:3B57:33BD-20240826214200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:59, 3 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-LesbianTiamat-20241103175900-2600:1700:E255:10:5C12:F40:3B57:33BD-20240826214200"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-LesbianTiamat-20241103175900-2600:1700:E255:10:5C12:F40:3B57:33BD-20240826214200"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-The_Mountain_of_Eden-20241103191200-LesbianTiamat-20241103175900"></span>Awesome work, @<a href="/wiki/User:LesbianTiamat" title="User:LesbianTiamat">LesbianTiamat</a>. Thank you. <a href="/wiki/User:The_Mountain_of_Eden" title="User:The Mountain of Eden">The Mountain of Eden</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:The_Mountain_of_Eden" title="User talk:The Mountain of Eden">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Mohammed_Deif#c-The_Mountain_of_Eden-20241103191200-LesbianTiamat-20241103175900" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:12, 3 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-The_Mountain_of_Eden-20241103191200-LesbianTiamat-20241103175900"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-The_Mountain_of_Eden-20241103191200-LesbianTiamat-20241103175900"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-The_Great_Mule_of_Eupatoria-20240828122500-2401:D002:8705:D400:E947:7A4C:5443:534D-20240825114100"></span>When the idf can show us his body, and his exact picture at the moment they dropped a one-tonne bomb in an area where civilians were sheltering in tents then we can talk <a href="/wiki/User:The_Great_Mule_of_Eupatoria" title="User:The Great Mule of Eupatoria">The Great Mule of Eupatoria</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:The_Great_Mule_of_Eupatoria" title="User talk:The Great Mule of Eupatoria">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Mohammed_Deif#c-The_Great_Mule_of_Eupatoria-20240828122500-2401:D002:8705:D400:E947:7A4C:5443:534D-20240825114100" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">12:25, 28 August 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-The_Great_Mule_of_Eupatoria-20240828122500-2401:D002:8705:D400:E947:7A4C:5443:534D-20240825114100"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-The_Great_Mule_of_Eupatoria-20240828122500-2401:D002:8705:D400:E947:7A4C:5443:534D-20240825114100"></span></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-160.78.149.35-20240828155600-The_Great_Mule_of_Eupatoria-20240828122500"></span>His body was blown to smithereens, so it won't be showed. It would be much easier for Hamas to diffuse an audio or video proving he is alive, no? --<a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/160.78.149.35" title="Special:Contributions/160.78.149.35">160.78.149.35</a> (<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:160.78.149.35&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User talk:160.78.149.35 (page does not exist)">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Mohammed_Deif#c-160.78.149.35-20240828155600-The_Great_Mule_of_Eupatoria-20240828122500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:56, 28 August 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-160.78.149.35-20240828155600-The_Great_Mule_of_Eupatoria-20240828122500"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-160.78.149.35-20240828155600-The_Great_Mule_of_Eupatoria-20240828122500"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-The_Great_Mule_of_Eupatoria-20240828170600-160.78.149.35-20240828155600"></span>Israel is the accuser. The burden of proof is on them. Their silly infographics won’t work and have numerous times proven to be false <a href="/wiki/User:The_Great_Mule_of_Eupatoria" title="User:The Great Mule of Eupatoria">The Great Mule of Eupatoria</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:The_Great_Mule_of_Eupatoria" title="User talk:The Great Mule of Eupatoria">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Mohammed_Deif#c-The_Great_Mule_of_Eupatoria-20240828170600-160.78.149.35-20240828155600" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:06, 28 August 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-The_Great_Mule_of_Eupatoria-20240828170600-160.78.149.35-20240828155600"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-The_Great_Mule_of_Eupatoria-20240828170600-160.78.149.35-20240828155600"></span></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Deus_vult_fratres!-20240907222200-160.78.149.35-20240828155600"></span>As always, history repeats itself! The article mentions how Israel claimed Deif was assasinated in 2014, which was disproven in 2015... I just think it will take time for Deif to be confirmed alive <a href="/wiki/User:Deus_vult_fratres!" title="User:Deus vult fratres!">Deus vult fratres!</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Deus_vult_fratres!" title="User talk:Deus vult fratres!">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Mohammed_Deif#c-Deus_vult_fratres!-20240907222200-160.78.149.35-20240828155600" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:22, 7 September 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Deus_vult_fratres!-20240907222200-160.78.149.35-20240828155600"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Deus_vult_fratres!-20240907222200-160.78.149.35-20240828155600"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Jesse_Flynn_(pseudonym)-20241018020600-Deus_vult_fratres!-20240907222200"></span>The article currently states:</dd> <dd>In August 2014, during the <a href="/wiki/2014_Gaza_War" title="2014 Gaza War">2014 Gaza War</a>, the Israeli air force attempted to assassinate him with an airstrike on the Deif family home in <a href="/wiki/Sheikh_Radwan" title="Sheikh Radwan">Sheikh Radwan</a> in <a href="/wiki/Gaza_City" title="Gaza City">Gaza City</a>. Hamas denied that Deif was killed, and his survival was confirmed by Israeli intelligence in 2015.</dd> <dd>If Israel falsely claimed that Deif was assassinated, that should definitely be explicitly stated <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Jesse_Flynn_(pseudonym)&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Jesse Flynn (pseudonym) (page does not exist)">Jesse Flynn (pseudonym)</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Jesse_Flynn_(pseudonym)" title="User talk:Jesse Flynn (pseudonym)">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Mohammed_Deif#c-Jesse_Flynn_(pseudonym)-20241018020600-Deus_vult_fratres!-20240907222200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:06, 18 October 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Jesse_Flynn_(pseudonym)-20241018020600-Deus_vult_fratres!-20240907222200"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Jesse_Flynn_(pseudonym)-20241018020600-Deus_vult_fratres!-20240907222200"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Deus_vult_fratres!-20241018180100-Jesse_Flynn_(pseudonym)-20241018020600"></span>Weird, I think I didn't read this on Wikipedia ... or that the article was edited <a href="/wiki/User:Deus_vult_fratres!" title="User:Deus vult fratres!">Deus vult fratres!</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Deus_vult_fratres!" title="User talk:Deus vult fratres!">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Mohammed_Deif#c-Deus_vult_fratres!-20241018180100-Jesse_Flynn_(pseudonym)-20241018020600" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:01, 18 October 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Deus_vult_fratres!-20241018180100-Jesse_Flynn_(pseudonym)-20241018020600"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Deus_vult_fratres!-20241018180100-Jesse_Flynn_(pseudonym)-20241018020600"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-2603:9008:2101:E2F3:425:A6EF:6530:D9C3-20240828163400-The_Great_Mule_of_Eupatoria-20240828122500"></span>I love how you felt the need to bring up the civilians as though it's relevant to this too, lmao. Yeah you're not biased at all, Mule <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/2603:9008:2101:E2F3:425:A6EF:6530:D9C3" title="Special:Contributions/2603:9008:2101:E2F3:425:A6EF:6530:D9C3">2603:9008:2101:E2F3:425:A6EF:6530:D9C3</a> (<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:2603:9008:2101:E2F3:425:A6EF:6530:D9C3&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User talk:2603:9008:2101:E2F3:425:A6EF:6530:D9C3 (page does not exist)">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Mohammed_Deif#c-2603:9008:2101:E2F3:425:A6EF:6530:D9C3-20240828163400-The_Great_Mule_of_Eupatoria-20240828122500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:34, 28 August 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-2603:9008:2101:E2F3:425:A6EF:6530:D9C3-20240828163400-The_Great_Mule_of_Eupatoria-20240828122500"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-2603:9008:2101:E2F3:425:A6EF:6530:D9C3-20240828163400-The_Great_Mule_of_Eupatoria-20240828122500"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-The_Great_Mule_of_Eupatoria-20240828170600-2603:9008:2101:E2F3:425:A6EF:6530:D9C3-20240828163400"></span>Maybe because the people bombed were civilians? I don’t know, maybe where you’re at you’re taught Palestinians are animals that can be slaughtered in any number and not actual human beings. My bias (more like common sense really) doesn’t matter here <a href="/wiki/User:The_Great_Mule_of_Eupatoria" title="User:The Great Mule of Eupatoria">The Great Mule of Eupatoria</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:The_Great_Mule_of_Eupatoria" title="User talk:The Great Mule of Eupatoria">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Mohammed_Deif#c-The_Great_Mule_of_Eupatoria-20240828170600-2603:9008:2101:E2F3:425:A6EF:6530:D9C3-20240828163400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:06, 28 August 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-The_Great_Mule_of_Eupatoria-20240828170600-2603:9008:2101:E2F3:425:A6EF:6530:D9C3-20240828163400"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-The_Great_Mule_of_Eupatoria-20240828170600-2603:9008:2101:E2F3:425:A6EF:6530:D9C3-20240828163400"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-2603:9008:2101:E2F3:425:A6EF:6530:D9C3-20240831010800-The_Great_Mule_of_Eupatoria-20240828170600"></span>Riiiiiight. Well, I won't say more since apparently your outrageous bias and false accusations are allowed here but responses to it get deleted, so I'll just wish you luck with that BS, Mule. <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/2603:9008:2101:E2F3:425:A6EF:6530:D9C3" title="Special:Contributions/2603:9008:2101:E2F3:425:A6EF:6530:D9C3">2603:9008:2101:E2F3:425:A6EF:6530:D9C3</a> (<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:2603:9008:2101:E2F3:425:A6EF:6530:D9C3&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User talk:2603:9008:2101:E2F3:425:A6EF:6530:D9C3 (page does not exist)">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Mohammed_Deif#c-2603:9008:2101:E2F3:425:A6EF:6530:D9C3-20240831010800-The_Great_Mule_of_Eupatoria-20240828170600" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:08, 31 August 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-2603:9008:2101:E2F3:425:A6EF:6530:D9C3-20240831010800-The_Great_Mule_of_Eupatoria-20240828170600"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-2603:9008:2101:E2F3:425:A6EF:6530:D9C3-20240831010800-The_Great_Mule_of_Eupatoria-20240828170600"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <p><a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Mohammed_Deif&diff=prev&oldid=1242634160"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-The_Mountain_of_Eden-20240828182400-Why_is_Hamas’_claims_of_him_being_alive_given_more_weight_than_the_IDF’s_ass"></span>I fixed it</a> by writing into the infobox details about his death with the parenthetical statement that it's disputed by Hamas. <a href="/wiki/User:The_Mountain_of_Eden" title="User:The Mountain of Eden">The Mountain of Eden</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:The_Mountain_of_Eden" title="User talk:The Mountain of Eden">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Mohammed_Deif#c-The_Mountain_of_Eden-20240828182400-Why_is_Hamas’_claims_of_him_being_alive_given_more_weight_than_the_IDF’s_ass" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:24, 28 August 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-The_Mountain_of_Eden-20240828182400-Why_is_Hamas’_claims_of_him_being_alive_given_more_weight_than_the_IDF’s_ass"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-The_Mountain_of_Eden-20240828182400-Why_is_Hamas’_claims_of_him_being_alive_given_more_weight_than_the_IDF’s_ass"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-PrimaPrime-20240829163100-The_Mountain_of_Eden-20240828182400"></span>FWIW Al-Arabiya has for a couple weeks had a report citing a <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://www.alarabiya.net/arab-and-world/2024/08/12/%D8%B3%D8%A7%D8%B9%D9%8A-%D8%A8%D8%B1%D9%8A%D8%AF-%D9%85%D9%86-%D8%A7%D9%84%D9%82%D8%B3%D8%A7%D9%85-%D9%83%D8%A7%D9%86-%D9%88%D8%B1%D8%A7%D8%A1-%D8%A7%D8%BA%D8%AA%D9%8A%D8%A7%D9%84-%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%B6%D9%8A%D9%81-%D9%85%D8%B5%D8%A7%D8%AF%D8%B1-%D8%AA%D9%83%D8%B4%D9%81">"Hamas source" as having confirmed</a> Deif's death. This would support your approach. <a href="/wiki/User:PrimaPrime" title="User:PrimaPrime">PrimaPrime</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:PrimaPrime" title="User talk:PrimaPrime">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Mohammed_Deif#c-PrimaPrime-20240829163100-The_Mountain_of_Eden-20240828182400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:31, 29 August 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-PrimaPrime-20240829163100-The_Mountain_of_Eden-20240828182400"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-PrimaPrime-20240829163100-The_Mountain_of_Eden-20240828182400"></span> <dl><dd><a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Mohammed_Deif&diff=1244001253&oldid=1243572152"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-The_Mountain_of_Eden-20240908014900-PrimaPrime-20240829163100"></span>This sequence of edits (along with the edit summary)</a> seems to establish a new standard that unless Hamas officially confirms the death of its leaders, Wikipedia will not use other references that do confirm a death. I would think that would be a gross violation of <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:NPOV" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:NPOV">WP:NPOV</a>? <a href="/wiki/User:The_Mountain_of_Eden" title="User:The Mountain of Eden">The Mountain of Eden</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:The_Mountain_of_Eden" title="User talk:The Mountain of Eden">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Mohammed_Deif#c-The_Mountain_of_Eden-20240908014900-PrimaPrime-20240829163100" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:49, 8 September 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-The_Mountain_of_Eden-20240908014900-PrimaPrime-20240829163100"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-The_Mountain_of_Eden-20240908014900-PrimaPrime-20240829163100"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-The_Great_Mule_of_Eupatoria-20240911111900-The_Mountain_of_Eden-20240908014900"></span>I am not a participant in that sequence, however for example leaders which Hamas did not confirm the assassination of are still listed as killed (most notably Marwan Issa, Hamas did not confirm his death).</dd> <dd>the reason Mohammad deif’s “assassination” is so controversial is that there are two parties involved already clashing with each other on wether he was killed, the lack of conclusive evidence of this supposed assassination and most controversially the manner of this “assassination” where 90 civilians were killed because Israel dropped several 1-tonne bombs (gladly supplied by America) over areas where civilians were sheltering <a href="/wiki/User:The_Great_Mule_of_Eupatoria" title="User:The Great Mule of Eupatoria">The Great Mule of Eupatoria</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:The_Great_Mule_of_Eupatoria" title="User talk:The Great Mule of Eupatoria">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Mohammed_Deif#c-The_Great_Mule_of_Eupatoria-20240911111900-The_Mountain_of_Eden-20240908014900" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">11:19, 11 September 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-The_Great_Mule_of_Eupatoria-20240911111900-The_Mountain_of_Eden-20240908014900"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-The_Great_Mule_of_Eupatoria-20240911111900-The_Mountain_of_Eden-20240908014900"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="outdent-template" style="position:relative;left:1px;"><span style="display:block;width:16em;height:0.5em;border-bottom:1px solid #a2a9b1;border-right:1px solid #a2a9b1;"></span><span style="display:block;width:16em;height:0.5em;border-left:1px solid #a2a9b1;"></span></div> <p><a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Mohammed_Deif&diff=prev&oldid=1246761570"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-The_Mountain_of_Eden-20240920231100-Why_is_Hamas’_claims_of_him_being_alive_given_more_weight_than_the_IDF’s_ass"></span>Per edit summary in this edit</a>, Deif will continue to be shown on Wikipedia as alive until 2080, unless Hamas confirms his death before that. <br/> But it may be possible that we could shave 6 years off of that, allowing Wikipedia to show Deif as dead as soon as 2074. The IDF obviously has evidence that Deif is dead, otherwise they wouldn't confirm his death — they would continue to put him on their most wanted list. As far as I understand, all military secrets in Israel are declassified after 50 years, so the evidence may be declassified in 2074 (but there may be a mechanism to extend the classifications of certain classified material by another 25 years, I'm not really sure).<br/><br/> Until then, let Deif live his life on Wikipedia. <a href="/wiki/User:The_Mountain_of_Eden" title="User:The Mountain of Eden">The Mountain of Eden</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:The_Mountain_of_Eden" title="User talk:The Mountain of Eden">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Mohammed_Deif#c-The_Mountain_of_Eden-20240920231100-Why_is_Hamas’_claims_of_him_being_alive_given_more_weight_than_the_IDF’s_ass" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:11, 20 September 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-The_Mountain_of_Eden-20240920231100-Why_is_Hamas’_claims_of_him_being_alive_given_more_weight_than_the_IDF’s_ass"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-The_Mountain_of_Eden-20240920231100-Why_is_Hamas’_claims_of_him_being_alive_given_more_weight_than_the_IDF’s_ass"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-The_Great_Mule_of_Eupatoria-20240923051200-The_Mountain_of_Eden-20240920231100"></span>When the sole party alleging to have “assassinated” him has a track record of lying when they <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://apnews.com/article/israel-hamas-mideast-latest-06-07-2024-cbc1aa84bc30b5f27dc1823155448f86#">Bomb civilians and claim to target individual militants</a>, then the thing someone with common sense would do is to treat their allegations as nothing more than allegations <a href="/wiki/User:The_Great_Mule_of_Eupatoria" title="User:The Great Mule of Eupatoria">The Great Mule of Eupatoria</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:The_Great_Mule_of_Eupatoria" title="User talk:The Great Mule of Eupatoria">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Mohammed_Deif#c-The_Great_Mule_of_Eupatoria-20240923051200-The_Mountain_of_Eden-20240920231100" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">05:12, 23 September 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-The_Great_Mule_of_Eupatoria-20240923051200-The_Mountain_of_Eden-20240920231100"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-The_Great_Mule_of_Eupatoria-20240923051200-The_Mountain_of_Eden-20240920231100"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-The_Mountain_of_Eden-20240930192800-The_Great_Mule_of_Eupatoria-20240923051200"></span>Take a look at the <a href="/wiki/Talk:Mohammed_Deif/FAQ" title="Talk:Mohammed Deif/FAQ">FAQ</a> for a more detailed analysis. <a href="/wiki/User:The_Mountain_of_Eden" title="User:The Mountain of Eden">The Mountain of Eden</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:The_Mountain_of_Eden" title="User talk:The Mountain of Eden">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Mohammed_Deif#c-The_Mountain_of_Eden-20240930192800-The_Great_Mule_of_Eupatoria-20240923051200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:28, 30 September 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-The_Mountain_of_Eden-20240930192800-The_Great_Mule_of_Eupatoria-20240923051200"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-The_Mountain_of_Eden-20240930192800-The_Great_Mule_of_Eupatoria-20240923051200"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Description_of_Mohammed_Deif" data-mw-thread-id="h-Description_of_Mohammed_Deif-20241005132300"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Description_of_Mohammed_Deif-20241005132300"></span>Description of Mohammed Deif<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Description_of_Mohammed_Deif-20241005132300"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Talk:Mohammed_Deif&action=edit&section=3" title="Edit section: Description of Mohammed Deif"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Dori1951-20241005132300-Description_of_Mohammed_Deif"></span>In the first paragraph of the main article Mohammed Deif is described as a "militant". This is BBC language. He is/was a terrorist and should be described as such. His al-Qassam Brigades were nothing other than a terrorist group. <a href="/wiki/User:Dori1951" title="User:Dori1951">Dori1951</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Dori1951" title="User talk:Dori1951">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Mohammed_Deif#c-Dori1951-20241005132300-Description_of_Mohammed_Deif" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">13:23, 5 October 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Dori1951-20241005132300-Description_of_Mohammed_Deif"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Dori1951-20241005132300-Description_of_Mohammed_Deif"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Ïvana-20241005191000-Dori1951-20241005132300"></span><span class="nowrap"><span typeof="mw:File"><span><img alt="" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a2/X_mark.svg/18px-X_mark.svg.png" decoding="async" width="18" height="21" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a2/X_mark.svg/27px-X_mark.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a2/X_mark.svg/36px-X_mark.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="525" data-file-height="600"/></span></span> <b>Not done</b></span>, see <a href="/wiki/MOS:TERRORIST" class="mw-redirect" title="MOS:TERRORIST">MOS:TERRORIST</a>. - <a href="/wiki/User:%C3%8Fvana" title="User:Ïvana">Ïvana</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:%C3%8Fvana" title="User talk:Ïvana">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Mohammed_Deif#c-Ïvana-20241005191000-Dori1951-20241005132300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:10, 5 October 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Ïvana-20241005191000-Dori1951-20241005132300"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Ïvana-20241005191000-Dori1951-20241005132300"></span></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-The_Mountain_of_Eden-20241008142300-Dori1951-20241005132300"></span>You can also take a look at <a href="/wiki/One_man%E2%80%99s_terrorist_is_another_man%E2%80%99s_freedom_fighter" class="mw-redirect" title="One man’s terrorist is another man’s freedom fighter">One man’s terrorist is another man’s freedom fighter</a>. <a href="/wiki/User:The_Mountain_of_Eden" title="User:The Mountain of Eden">The Mountain of Eden</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:The_Mountain_of_Eden" title="User talk:The Mountain of Eden">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Mohammed_Deif#c-The_Mountain_of_Eden-20241008142300-Dori1951-20241005132300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">14:23, 8 October 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-The_Mountain_of_Eden-20241008142300-Dori1951-20241005132300"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-The_Mountain_of_Eden-20241008142300-Dori1951-20241005132300"></span></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Asharq_Al-Awsat_confirms_Deif's_death." data-mw-thread-id="h-Asharq_Al-Awsat_confirms_Deif's_death.-20241102230200"><span id="Asharq_Al-Awsat_confirms_Deif.27s_death."></span><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Asharq_Al-Awsat_confirms_Deif's_death.-20241102230200"></span>Asharq Al-Awsat confirms Deif's death.<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Asharq_Al-Awsat_confirms_Deif's_death.-20241102230200"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Talk:Mohammed_Deif&action=edit&section=4" title="Edit section: Asharq Al-Awsat confirms Deif's death."><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-ULLIRALDMOOR-20241102230200-Asharq_Al-Awsat_confirms_Deif's_death."></span>Here is the source linked to the Saudi Arabia owned newspaper: <a rel="nofollow" class="external free" href="https://english.aawsat.com/arab-world/5077358-new-evidence-suggests-death-qassam-brigades-leader">https://english.aawsat.com/arab-world/5077358-new-evidence-suggests-death-qassam-brigades-leader</a> <a href="/wiki/User:ULLIRALDMOOR" title="User:ULLIRALDMOOR">ULLIRALDMOOR</a> (<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:ULLIRALDMOOR&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User talk:ULLIRALDMOOR (page does not exist)">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Mohammed_Deif#c-ULLIRALDMOOR-20241102230200-Asharq_Al-Awsat_confirms_Deif's_death." class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:02, 2 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-ULLIRALDMOOR-20241102230200-Asharq_Al-Awsat_confirms_Deif's_death."><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-ULLIRALDMOOR-20241102230200-Asharq_Al-Awsat_confirms_Deif's_death."></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-The_Mountain_of_Eden-20241103192000-ULLIRALDMOOR-20241102230200"></span>Good work. I have <a href="/wiki/Special:Diff/1255213406" title="Special:Diff/1255213406">incorporated this reference into the article</a>. <a href="/wiki/User:The_Mountain_of_Eden" title="User:The Mountain of Eden">The Mountain of Eden</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:The_Mountain_of_Eden" title="User talk:The Mountain of Eden">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Mohammed_Deif#c-The_Mountain_of_Eden-20241103192000-ULLIRALDMOOR-20241102230200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:20, 3 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-The_Mountain_of_Eden-20241103192000-ULLIRALDMOOR-20241102230200"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-The_Mountain_of_Eden-20241103192000-ULLIRALDMOOR-20241102230200"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Pachu_Kannan-20241104122800-The_Mountain_of_Eden-20241103192000"></span>Hamas denied this per <a rel="nofollow" class="external free" href="https://www.thestar.com.my/news/nation/2024/11/03/hamas-denies-martyrdom-of-its-military-leader-mohammed-deif">https://www.thestar.com.my/news/nation/2024/11/03/hamas-denies-martyrdom-of-its-military-leader-mohammed-deif</a> <a href="/wiki/User:Pachu_Kannan" title="User:Pachu Kannan">Pachu Kannan</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Pachu_Kannan" title="User talk:Pachu Kannan">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Mohammed_Deif#c-Pachu_Kannan-20241104122800-The_Mountain_of_Eden-20241103192000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">12:28, 4 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Pachu_Kannan-20241104122800-The_Mountain_of_Eden-20241103192000"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Pachu_Kannan-20241104122800-The_Mountain_of_Eden-20241103192000"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading3"><h3 id="Both_dead_and_alive" data-mw-thread-id="h-Both_dead_and_alive-Asharq_Al-Awsat_confirms_Deif's_death.-20241104145400"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Both_dead_and_alive-Asharq_Al-Awsat_confirms_Deif's_death.-20241104145400"></span>Both dead and alive<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Both_dead_and_alive-Asharq_Al-Awsat_confirms_Deif's_death.-20241104145400"></span></h3><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Talk:Mohammed_Deif&action=edit&section=5" title="Edit section: Both dead and alive"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-The_Mountain_of_Eden-20241104145400-Both_dead_and_alive"></span>So we now have a source, <i><a href="/wiki/Asharq_Al-Awsat" title="Asharq Al-Awsat">Asharq Al-Awsat</a></i>, saying that Hamas has acknowledged Deif's death, with another source saying that they are still denying his death. <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:RSP" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:RSP">WP:RSP</a> does not have a listing for <i><a href="/wiki/Asharq_Al-Awsat" title="Asharq Al-Awsat">Asharq Al-Awsat</a></i>, so I don't know if there are reliability issues with it. Assuming <i><a href="/wiki/Asharq_Al-Awsat" title="Asharq Al-Awsat">Asharq Al-Awsat</a></i> has no reliability issues, I would say that Deif should continue to be listed as dead, with Hamas disputing the reports that it has internally acknowledged his death. <a href="/wiki/User:The_Mountain_of_Eden" title="User:The Mountain of Eden">The Mountain of Eden</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:The_Mountain_of_Eden" title="User talk:The Mountain of Eden">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Mohammed_Deif#c-The_Mountain_of_Eden-20241104145400-Both_dead_and_alive" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">14:54, 4 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-The_Mountain_of_Eden-20241104145400-Both_dead_and_alive"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-The_Mountain_of_Eden-20241104145400-Both_dead_and_alive"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Ïvana-20241115005300-The_Mountain_of_Eden-20241104145400"></span>I don't think one newspaper citing anonymous sources is strong enough to state definitively in wiki voice that he is dead. Per <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:BLP" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:BLP">WP:BLP</a>, people are presumed to be living unless a reliable source has confirmed their death. The burden of proof lies with those making the assertions. This newspaper only mentions "sources close to Deif". Moreover, Hamas has explicitly denied these claims. So we're back to square one: the IDF (and now one newspaper) claim he is dead, and Hamas says he's not. In the absence of concrete evidence affirming otherwise, he should be presumed to be alive. - <a href="/wiki/User:%C3%8Fvana" title="User:Ïvana">Ïvana</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:%C3%8Fvana" title="User talk:Ïvana">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Mohammed_Deif#c-Ïvana-20241115005300-The_Mountain_of_Eden-20241104145400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:53, 15 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Ïvana-20241115005300-The_Mountain_of_Eden-20241104145400"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Ïvana-20241115005300-The_Mountain_of_Eden-20241104145400"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-The_Mountain_of_Eden-20241115045800-Ïvana-20241115005300"></span>I don't think we are back to square one. It's one newspaper saying that Hamas is privately acknowledging that he's dead. To the best of my knowledge, the newspaper has not recanted its story. Unless we can impeach the credibility of the newspaper, then there really is no dispute that he is dead. Hamas accusing the newspaper of falsehood is not an impeachment of the credibility of the newspaper. <a href="/wiki/User:The_Mountain_of_Eden" title="User:The Mountain of Eden">The Mountain of Eden</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:The_Mountain_of_Eden" title="User talk:The Mountain of Eden">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Mohammed_Deif#c-The_Mountain_of_Eden-20241115045800-Ïvana-20241115005300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">04:58, 15 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-The_Mountain_of_Eden-20241115045800-Ïvana-20241115005300"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-The_Mountain_of_Eden-20241115045800-Ïvana-20241115005300"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Ïvana-20241115125300-The_Mountain_of_Eden-20241115045800"></span>We have a newspaper asserting Hamas said something and Hamas explicitly deniying it. Why would the newspaper unverified claim have more weight that a statement coming from them? - <a href="/wiki/User:%C3%8Fvana" title="User:Ïvana">Ïvana</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:%C3%8Fvana" title="User talk:Ïvana">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Mohammed_Deif#c-Ïvana-20241115125300-The_Mountain_of_Eden-20241115045800" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">12:53, 15 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Ïvana-20241115125300-The_Mountain_of_Eden-20241115045800"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Ïvana-20241115125300-The_Mountain_of_Eden-20241115045800"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-The_Mountain_of_Eden-20241115152300-Ïvana-20241115125300"></span>I'm not sure if you read the reference, but the reference is quite unequivocal. Here are some key sentences from the reference. <ol><li><i><link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1248585704"><q class="inline-quote-talk">new evidence points to the assassination of Mohammed Deif</q></i></li> <li><i><link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1248585704"><q class="inline-quote-talk">Samples were taken from the body, and it was later buried in Khan Younis. Tests on these samples reportedly confirmed the remains likely belonged to Deif</q></i></li> <li><i><link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1248585704"><q class="inline-quote-talk">after prolonged silence and a complete communication cutoff, Qassam leaders are now convinced Deif was killed.</q></i></li></ol></dd> <dd>Unless you can impeach the credibility of <a href="/wiki/Asharq_Al-Awsat" title="Asharq Al-Awsat">Asharq Al-Awsat</a>, the article has to show him as dead with Hamas refusing to publicly acknowledge it. <a href="/wiki/User:The_Mountain_of_Eden" title="User:The Mountain of Eden">The Mountain of Eden</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:The_Mountain_of_Eden" title="User talk:The Mountain of Eden">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Mohammed_Deif#c-The_Mountain_of_Eden-20241115152300-Ïvana-20241115125300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:23, 15 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-The_Mountain_of_Eden-20241115152300-Ïvana-20241115125300"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-The_Mountain_of_Eden-20241115152300-Ïvana-20241115125300"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Ïvana-20241115233600-The_Mountain_of_Eden-20241115152300"></span>I did read the piece. It boils down to the newspaper making unverified claims based on anonymous sources. The newspaper itself doesn't definitively confirm that he is dead; it only suggests that he likely is, citing al-Qassam, a confirmation that they explicitly denied making. This directly contradicts the claims made in the article. I don't think that's strong enough for a BLP and for us to say that he is dead as a matter of fact. The truth is that we don't know, and while his status is unconfirmed he should be presumed to be alive. That's how BLPs operate. - <a href="/wiki/User:%C3%8Fvana" title="User:Ïvana">Ïvana</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:%C3%8Fvana" title="User talk:Ïvana">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Mohammed_Deif#c-Ïvana-20241115233600-The_Mountain_of_Eden-20241115152300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:36, 15 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Ïvana-20241115233600-The_Mountain_of_Eden-20241115152300"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Ïvana-20241115233600-The_Mountain_of_Eden-20241115152300"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-The_Mountain_of_Eden-20241116042200-Ïvana-20241115233600"></span>We do know that he is dead. There's a body, and the body has been confirmed to belong to Deif. That's really all that's required to confirm a death. <a href="/wiki/User:The_Mountain_of_Eden" title="User:The Mountain of Eden">The Mountain of Eden</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:The_Mountain_of_Eden" title="User talk:The Mountain of Eden">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Mohammed_Deif#c-The_Mountain_of_Eden-20241116042200-Ïvana-20241115233600" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">04:22, 16 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-The_Mountain_of_Eden-20241116042200-Ïvana-20241115233600"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-The_Mountain_of_Eden-20241116042200-Ïvana-20241115233600"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Ïvana-20241116060300-The_Mountain_of_Eden-20241116042200"></span>The article relies entirely on testimony Hamas has explicitly denied making, meaning the assertions in it are completely unreliable. - <a href="/wiki/User:%C3%8Fvana" title="User:Ïvana">Ïvana</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:%C3%8Fvana" title="User talk:Ïvana">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Mohammed_Deif#c-Ïvana-20241116060300-The_Mountain_of_Eden-20241116042200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">06:03, 16 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Ïvana-20241116060300-The_Mountain_of_Eden-20241116042200"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Ïvana-20241116060300-The_Mountain_of_Eden-20241116042200"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-The_Mountain_of_Eden-20241116183700-Ïvana-20241116060300"></span>You may be a little confused. The article relies on testimony by knowledgeable elements inside Hamas. It is the Hamas information ministry that is making the denials for public relations purposes.</dd> <dd>The Hamas information ministry does not invalidate the reliability of the source. <a href="/wiki/User:The_Mountain_of_Eden" title="User:The Mountain of Eden">The Mountain of Eden</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:The_Mountain_of_Eden" title="User talk:The Mountain of Eden">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Mohammed_Deif#c-The_Mountain_of_Eden-20241116183700-Ïvana-20241116060300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:37, 16 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-The_Mountain_of_Eden-20241116183700-Ïvana-20241116060300"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-The_Mountain_of_Eden-20241116183700-Ïvana-20241116060300"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Ïvana-20241117062400-The_Mountain_of_Eden-20241116183700"></span>That is not mentioned at all in any of the articles linked above so it sounds like <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:SYNTH" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:SYNTH">WP:SYNTH</a>. al-Awsat says <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1248585704"><q class="inline-quote-talk">Hamas sources have indicated that new evidence points to the assassination of Mohammed Deif</q> and later that those sources are <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1248585704"><q class="inline-quote-talk">close to Deif</q>. Nothing more than that. And the Star says <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1248585704"><q class="inline-quote-talk">Hamas has dismissed a report by the London-based Asharq al-Awsat newspaper</q> and <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1248585704"><q class="inline-quote-talk">Hamas said in a statement on Saturday (Nov 2) that the report is untrue and called on all media outlets to act accurately and professionally. The reaction came after Asharq al-Awsat, citing Hamas sources, alleged that the movement had confirmed Deif lost his life</q>. So my point remains valid. - <a href="/wiki/User:%C3%8Fvana" title="User:Ïvana">Ïvana</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:%C3%8Fvana" title="User talk:Ïvana">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Mohammed_Deif#c-Ïvana-20241117062400-The_Mountain_of_Eden-20241116183700" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">06:24, 17 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Ïvana-20241117062400-The_Mountain_of_Eden-20241116183700"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Ïvana-20241117062400-The_Mountain_of_Eden-20241116183700"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-The_Mountain_of_Eden-20241117063700-Ïvana-20241117062400"></span>Official Hamas statements are put out by the Hamas Information ministry. Sounds like you are doing some <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:SYNTH" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:SYNTH">WP:SYNTH</a> of your own when you say that Hamas is contradicting itself. <a href="/wiki/User:The_Mountain_of_Eden" title="User:The Mountain of Eden">The Mountain of Eden</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:The_Mountain_of_Eden" title="User talk:The Mountain of Eden">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Mohammed_Deif#c-The_Mountain_of_Eden-20241117063700-Ïvana-20241117062400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">06:37, 17 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-The_Mountain_of_Eden-20241117063700-Ïvana-20241117062400"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-The_Mountain_of_Eden-20241117063700-Ïvana-20241117062400"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Ïvana-20241117064700-The_Mountain_of_Eden-20241117063700"></span>I'm quoting directly from the articles. Both mention <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1248585704"><q class="inline-quote-talk">Hamas sources</q> without much detail. There's no evidence of contradiction; al-Awsat says Hamas confirmed one thing, and then Hamas officially denied it. - <a href="/wiki/User:%C3%8Fvana" title="User:Ïvana">Ïvana</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:%C3%8Fvana" title="User talk:Ïvana">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Mohammed_Deif#c-Ïvana-20241117064700-The_Mountain_of_Eden-20241117063700" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">06:47, 17 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Ïvana-20241117064700-The_Mountain_of_Eden-20241117063700"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Ïvana-20241117064700-The_Mountain_of_Eden-20241117063700"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-The_Mountain_of_Eden-20241117155300-Ïvana-20241117064700"></span>We are in agreement. Hamas is internally acknowledging that Deif is dead, but publicly denying it. Both are listed in the article.</dd> <dd>Since <i><link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1248585704"><q class="inline-quote-talk">samples reportedly confirmed the remains likely belonged to Deif</q></i>, there is no more presumption that he is alive, which is why the article shows him as dead and notes that Hamas is officially disputing it. <a href="/wiki/User:The_Mountain_of_Eden" title="User:The Mountain of Eden">The Mountain of Eden</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:The_Mountain_of_Eden" title="User talk:The Mountain of Eden">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Mohammed_Deif#c-The_Mountain_of_Eden-20241117155300-Ïvana-20241117064700" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:53, 17 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-The_Mountain_of_Eden-20241117155300-Ïvana-20241117064700"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-The_Mountain_of_Eden-20241117155300-Ïvana-20241117064700"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Ïvana-20241117173600-The_Mountain_of_Eden-20241117155300"></span>I feel like I'm talking in circles. Both articles only mention <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1248585704"><q class="inline-quote-talk">Hamas sources</q>. The entire report from al-Awsat relies on testimony provided by these sources, testimony that Hamas has stated it did not give. What's confusing about that? You're assuming that the parties providing the testimony and denying it are different, but that distinction doesn't come from any of the articles. They only refer to Hamas. - <a href="/wiki/User:%C3%8Fvana" title="User:Ïvana">Ïvana</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:%C3%8Fvana" title="User talk:Ïvana">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Mohammed_Deif#c-Ïvana-20241117173600-The_Mountain_of_Eden-20241117155300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:36, 17 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Ïvana-20241117173600-The_Mountain_of_Eden-20241117155300"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Ïvana-20241117173600-The_Mountain_of_Eden-20241117155300"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-The_Mountain_of_Eden-20241117174500-Ïvana-20241117173600"></span>Perhaps this will clear things up for you. The reference saying that Hamas is denying the report in <a href="/wiki/Asharq_Al-Awsat" title="Asharq Al-Awsat">Asharq Al-Awsat</a> relies on an official statement from Hamas. The report in <a href="/wiki/Asharq_Al-Awsat" title="Asharq Al-Awsat">Asharq Al-Awsat</a> does not claim that it came from an official statement from Hamas. It cites sources within Hamas.</dd> <dd>It is therefore a <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:SYNTH" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:SYNTH">WP:SYNTH</a> on your part to presume that the sources in <a href="/wiki/Asharq_Al-Awsat" title="Asharq Al-Awsat">Asharq Al-Awsat</a> are the same as the ones who composed the official statement from Hamas. <a href="/wiki/User:The_Mountain_of_Eden" title="User:The Mountain of Eden">The Mountain of Eden</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:The_Mountain_of_Eden" title="User talk:The Mountain of Eden">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Mohammed_Deif#c-The_Mountain_of_Eden-20241117174500-Ïvana-20241117173600" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:45, 17 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-The_Mountain_of_Eden-20241117174500-Ïvana-20241117173600"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-The_Mountain_of_Eden-20241117174500-Ïvana-20241117173600"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Ïvana-20241118030500-The_Mountain_of_Eden-20241117174500"></span>Obviously if the report from al-Awsat was based on an official statement from Hamas we wouldn't be having this discussion. Hamas didn't make two contradicting statements. The newspaper claims Hamas said one thing, and Hamas put out one statement denying it. There's nothing SYNTHy about that interpretation. - <a href="/wiki/User:%C3%8Fvana" title="User:Ïvana">Ïvana</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:%C3%8Fvana" title="User talk:Ïvana">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Mohammed_Deif#c-Ïvana-20241118030500-The_Mountain_of_Eden-20241117174500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">03:05, 18 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Ïvana-20241118030500-The_Mountain_of_Eden-20241117174500"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Ïvana-20241118030500-The_Mountain_of_Eden-20241117174500"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-The_Mountain_of_Eden-20241118030900-Ïvana-20241118030500"></span>You're still missing the point.</dd> <dd><i><link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1248585704"><q class="inline-quote-talk">The newspaper claims Hamas said one thing</q>.</i></dd> <dd>No, <a href="/wiki/Asharq_Al-Awsat" title="Asharq Al-Awsat">Asharq Al-Awsat</a> did not attribute anything to Hamas. The newspaper attributed their findings to sources within Hamas. There is a big difference between official statements that come from Hamas, and statements made by individual operatives. <a href="/wiki/User:The_Mountain_of_Eden" title="User:The Mountain of Eden">The Mountain of Eden</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:The_Mountain_of_Eden" title="User talk:The Mountain of Eden">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Mohammed_Deif#c-The_Mountain_of_Eden-20241118030900-Ïvana-20241118030500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">03:09, 18 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-The_Mountain_of_Eden-20241118030900-Ïvana-20241118030500"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-The_Mountain_of_Eden-20241118030900-Ïvana-20241118030500"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Ïvana-20241119042000-The_Mountain_of_Eden-20241118030900"></span>This is clearly going nowhere. I linked this discussion in the BLP noticeboard (and pinged you there) to see if any uninvolved editor with experience in BLPs feels like giving their two cents. Hope that's ok. - <a href="/wiki/User:%C3%8Fvana" title="User:Ïvana">Ïvana</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:%C3%8Fvana" title="User talk:Ïvana">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Mohammed_Deif#c-Ïvana-20241119042000-The_Mountain_of_Eden-20241118030900" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">04:20, 19 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Ïvana-20241119042000-The_Mountain_of_Eden-20241118030900"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Ïvana-20241119042000-The_Mountain_of_Eden-20241118030900"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-The_Mountain_of_Eden-20241119210400-Ïvana-20241119042000"></span>I was going to suggest that as the next step. <a href="/wiki/User:The_Mountain_of_Eden" title="User:The Mountain of Eden">The Mountain of Eden</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:The_Mountain_of_Eden" title="User talk:The Mountain of Eden">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Mohammed_Deif#c-The_Mountain_of_Eden-20241119210400-Ïvana-20241119042000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:04, 19 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-The_Mountain_of_Eden-20241119210400-Ïvana-20241119042000"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-The_Mountain_of_Eden-20241119210400-Ïvana-20241119042000"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Vice_regent-20241115210900-The_Mountain_of_Eden-20241104145400"></span>@<a href="/wiki/User:The_Mountain_of_Eden" title="User:The Mountain of Eden">The Mountain of Eden</a> if you want to see an example, go to <a href="/wiki/Massoud_Rajavi" title="Massoud Rajavi">Massoud Rajavi</a>, someone who has been both death and alive for two decades.<b><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Vice_regent" title="User talk:Vice regent">VR</a></b> <sub>(Please <a href="/wiki/Template:Ping" class="mw-redirect" title="Template:Ping">ping</a> on reply)</sub> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Mohammed_Deif#c-Vice_regent-20241115210900-The_Mountain_of_Eden-20241104145400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:09, 15 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Vice_regent-20241115210900-The_Mountain_of_Eden-20241104145400"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Vice_regent-20241115210900-The_Mountain_of_Eden-20241104145400"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-The_Mountain_of_Eden-20241116042300-Vice_regent-20241115210900"></span>A person who has disappeared is not the same as this case in which a person has been confirmed to be dead, but there is a group that continues to deny the death. <a href="/wiki/User:The_Mountain_of_Eden" title="User:The Mountain of Eden">The Mountain of Eden</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:The_Mountain_of_Eden" title="User talk:The Mountain of Eden">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Mohammed_Deif#c-The_Mountain_of_Eden-20241116042300-Vice_regent-20241115210900" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">04:23, 16 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-The_Mountain_of_Eden-20241116042300-Vice_regent-20241115210900"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-The_Mountain_of_Eden-20241116042300-Vice_regent-20241115210900"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Skornezy-20241120114000-The_Mountain_of_Eden-20241116042300"></span>@<a href="/wiki/User:%C3%8Fvana" title="User:Ïvana">Ïvana</a> is right. Anonymous <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1248585704"><q class="inline-quote-talk">"Hamas sources"</q> is nowhere close enough to be able to definitely confirm that Deif died. Moreover, I challenge the reliability of <a href="/wiki/Asharq_Al-Awsat" title="Asharq Al-Awsat">Asharq Al-Awsat</a> because <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1248585704"><q class="inline-quote-talk">"Although published under the name of a private company, <a href="/wiki/Saudi_Research_and_Marketing_Group" class="mw-redirect" title="Saudi Research and Marketing Group">Saudi Research and Marketing Group</a> (SRMG), the paper was founded with the approval of the Saudi royal family and government ministers, and is noted for its support of the Saudi government. The newspaper is owned by <a href="/wiki/Faisal_bin_Salman_bin_Abdulaziz_Al_Saud" class="mw-redirect" title="Faisal bin Salman bin Abdulaziz Al Saud">Faisal bin Salman bin Abdulaziz Al Saud</a>, a member of the Saudi royal family."</q> Given Saudi Arabia's generally poor relations with Hamas, and the fact that Saudi Arabia is one of the <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Censorship_in_Saudi_Arabia">worst countries in terms of freedom of the press</a>, I'd have to question the reliability of any media organization from Saudi Arabia, especially when it comes to politics. <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Skornezy&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Skornezy (page does not exist)">Skornezy</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Skornezy" title="User talk:Skornezy">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Mohammed_Deif#c-Skornezy-20241120114000-The_Mountain_of_Eden-20241116042300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">11:40, 20 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Skornezy-20241120114000-The_Mountain_of_Eden-20241116042300"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Skornezy-20241120114000-The_Mountain_of_Eden-20241116042300"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Ïvana-20241121140100-Skornezy-20241120114000"></span>I think the fact that the ICC issued an arrest warrant for him today is also relevant. According to them they are "not in a position to determine whether [he] has been killed or remains alive" which is the same position we should be assuming. Which means we should not be asserting in our own voice that he is dead. - <a href="/wiki/User:%C3%8Fvana" title="User:Ïvana">Ïvana</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:%C3%8Fvana" title="User talk:Ïvana">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Mohammed_Deif#c-Ïvana-20241121140100-Skornezy-20241120114000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">14:01, 21 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Ïvana-20241121140100-Skornezy-20241120114000"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Ïvana-20241121140100-Skornezy-20241120114000"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Skornezy-20241121151600-Ïvana-20241121140100"></span>Good point. <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Skornezy&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Skornezy (page does not exist)">Skornezy</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Skornezy" title="User talk:Skornezy">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Mohammed_Deif#c-Skornezy-20241121151600-Ïvana-20241121140100" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:16, 21 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Skornezy-20241121151600-Ïvana-20241121140100"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Skornezy-20241121151600-Ïvana-20241121140100"></span></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Oriential_Smith-20241121162400-Ïvana-20241121140100"></span>Personally, I think all evidence points to the fact that this guy is dead. Until proven alive, let's just leave him at presumed dead, but not confirmed by hamas themselves. <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:OrientialSmith&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:OrientialSmith (page does not exist)">Oriential Smith</a> (<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Oriential_Smith&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User talk:Oriential Smith (page does not exist)">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Mohammed_Deif#c-Oriential_Smith-20241121162400-Ïvana-20241121140100" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:24, 21 November 2024 (UTC)</a> <small class="autosigned">— Preceding <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Signatures" title="Wikipedia:Signatures">unsigned</a> comment added by <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:OrientalSmith&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:OrientalSmith (page does not exist)">OrientalSmith</a> (<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:OrientalSmith&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User talk:OrientalSmith (page does not exist)">talk</a> • <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/OrientalSmith" title="Special:Contributions/OrientalSmith">contribs</a>) </small><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Oriential_Smith-20241121162400-Ïvana-20241121140100"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Oriential_Smith-20241121162400-Ïvana-20241121140100"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Ïvana-20241121215000-Oriential_Smith-20241121162400"></span>That's not how it works tho. According to <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:BLP" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:BLP">WP:BLP</a> everyone is presumed to be alive until a RS can confirm their death. It is not our responsibility to prove that he's alive, but rather for the IDF (or anyone else) to prove that he is dead. A person could be missing for 50 years and still be considered alive under BLP. Per <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:BDP" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:BDP">WP:BDP</a>, someone is only presumed dead if they are over 115 years old. Deif is 58/59 so he has quite a bit of time left. - <a href="/wiki/User:%C3%8Fvana" title="User:Ïvana">Ïvana</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:%C3%8Fvana" title="User talk:Ïvana">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Mohammed_Deif#c-Ïvana-20241121215000-Oriential_Smith-20241121162400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:50, 21 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Ïvana-20241121215000-Oriential_Smith-20241121162400"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Ïvana-20241121215000-Oriential_Smith-20241121162400"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Gotitbro-20241122090900-Ïvana-20241121215000"></span>Coming here from <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:ITN" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:ITN">WP:ITN</a>. From what I can see in the article's body and discussion here, the death date should nowhere be near the infobox or short description here (in any form [alleged etc.]); no one except the IDF has acknowledged his death. A lone newspaper report confirming his death, regardless of its reliability, notwithstanding.</dd> <dd>Also compare the reactions to the <a href="/wiki/13_July_2024_al-Mawasi_attack" title="13 July 2024 al-Mawasi attack">13 July 2024 al-Mawasi attack</a> to <a href="/wiki/Reactions_to_the_killing_of_Osama_bin_Laden" title="Reactions to the killing of Osama bin Laden">Reactions to the killing of Osama bin Laden</a>, where in the latter multiple third parties acknowledged his death, in the former the reactions are more about allegations of war crimes absent any mention of Deif.</dd> <dd>He might very well be dead but Wikipedia as an encyclopedia and a teritary source has to <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WEIGHT" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:WEIGHT">weight</a> the sources and a proclamation of his death by us so prominently is not supported by the sources and is as of now <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:UNDUE" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:UNDUE">WP:UNDUE</a>. We can and should wait for any third-party confirmation (US, EU etc.); instead we have international bodies saying they cannot confirm the IDF's claims. <a href="/wiki/User:Gotitbro" title="User:Gotitbro">Gotitbro</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Gotitbro" title="User talk:Gotitbro">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Mohammed_Deif#c-Gotitbro-20241122090900-Ïvana-20241121215000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">09:09, 22 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Gotitbro-20241122090900-Ïvana-20241121215000"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Gotitbro-20241122090900-Ïvana-20241121215000"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Gotitbro-20241122191200-Gotitbro-20241122090900"></span>Also note that newspapers reported his death in 2002 which turned out to be false; he was also reported to be dead in the 2014 <a href="/wiki/Deif_family_killings" title="Deif family killings">Deif family killings</a> which again was untrue.</dd> <dd>This is why third-party confirmation (not mere newspaper reports) becomes important and necessary. <a href="/wiki/User:Gotitbro" title="User:Gotitbro">Gotitbro</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Gotitbro" title="User talk:Gotitbro">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Mohammed_Deif#c-Gotitbro-20241122191200-Gotitbro-20241122090900" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:12, 22 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Gotitbro-20241122191200-Gotitbro-20241122090900"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Gotitbro-20241122191200-Gotitbro-20241122090900"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Oriential_Smith-20241124162400-Ïvana-20241121140100"></span>Ok well even if Deif isn't confirmed dead, could we at least change the 'is' in the first sentence to 'is or was' since it could be misleading to some of them. <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:OrientialSmith&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:OrientialSmith (page does not exist)">Oriential Smith</a> (<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Oriential_Smith&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User talk:Oriential Smith (page does not exist)">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Mohammed_Deif#c-Oriential_Smith-20241124162400-Ïvana-20241121140100" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:24, 24 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Oriential_Smith-20241124162400-Ïvana-20241121140100"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Oriential_Smith-20241124162400-Ïvana-20241121140100"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Bizarre_English_and_incorrect_article_link" data-mw-thread-id="h-Bizarre_English_and_incorrect_article_link-20241114124600"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Bizarre_English_and_incorrect_article_link-20241114124600"></span>Bizarre English and incorrect article link<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Bizarre_English_and_incorrect_article_link-20241114124600"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Talk:Mohammed_Deif&action=edit&section=6" title="Edit section: Bizarre English and incorrect article link"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Ieditthethings-20241114124600-Bizarre_English_and_incorrect_article_link"></span>Pseudonym is a common enough word in English lexicon that it should be used over the French presented here. Additionally "US banknotes" were only a thing until the early 20th century. He was holding US dollars. The linked wiki article makes this seem like he got a hold of unusable currency. The dollar facing the camera contains the large head enhancement from the early 21st century. </p><p><br/> This feels like it was created by someone using a poor translator. Happy to help edit but it's protected. If there's a way to submit a draft, please let me know. I'm new to protected articles but this was too egregious. <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Ieditthethings&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Ieditthethings (page does not exist)">Ieditthethings</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Ieditthethings" title="User talk:Ieditthethings">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Mohammed_Deif#c-Ieditthethings-20241114124600-Bizarre_English_and_incorrect_article_link" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">12:46, 14 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Ieditthethings-20241114124600-Bizarre_English_and_incorrect_article_link"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Ieditthethings-20241114124600-Bizarre_English_and_incorrect_article_link"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span class="template-ping"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Ïvana-20241115000900-Ieditthethings-20241114124600"></span>@<a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Ieditthethings&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Ieditthethings (page does not exist)">Ieditthethings</a>:</span> I changed banknotes to dollars as you suggested, but kept "nom de guerre" because it specifically denotes an alias adopted for use in militant activities, so it seems more appropiate. The word is wikilinked anyways so any doubt can be cleared up by reading the linked article. - <a href="/wiki/User:%C3%8Fvana" title="User:Ïvana">Ïvana</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:%C3%8Fvana" title="User talk:Ïvana">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Mohammed_Deif#c-Ïvana-20241115000900-Ieditthethings-20241114124600" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:09, 15 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Ïvana-20241115000900-Ieditthethings-20241114124600"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Ïvana-20241115000900-Ieditthethings-20241114124600"></span></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-WP_Ludicer-20241122093700-Ieditthethings-20241114124600"></span>While I don't really care about the change, "US banknotes" very obviously refers to <a href="/wiki/Federal_Reserve_Note" title="Federal Reserve Note">Federal Reserve Notes</a>, i.e., "bills". "Dollars" are currency but are not exclusively banknotes. The money in your bank account is also in dollars, but not in banknotes. <a href="/wiki/User:WP_Ludicer" title="User:WP Ludicer">WP Ludicer</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:WP_Ludicer" title="User talk:WP Ludicer">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Mohammed_Deif#c-WP_Ludicer-20241122093700-Ieditthethings-20241114124600" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">09:37, 22 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-WP_Ludicer-20241122093700-Ieditthethings-20241114124600"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-WP_Ludicer-20241122093700-Ieditthethings-20241114124600"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Ieditthethings-20241122214000-WP_Ludicer-20241122093700"></span>I'll concede. When I first read the <a href="/wiki/Banknotes_of_the_United_States_dollar" title="Banknotes of the United States dollar">Banknotes of the United States dollar</a> page, I only saw the references to the 1700s. I did not realize it expanded into <i>current</i> banknotes as well.</dd> <dd>My mistake. <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Ieditthethings&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Ieditthethings (page does not exist)">Ieditthethings</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Ieditthethings" title="User talk:Ieditthethings">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Mohammed_Deif#c-Ieditthethings-20241122214000-WP_Ludicer-20241122093700" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:40, 22 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Ieditthethings-20241122214000-WP_Ludicer-20241122093700"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Ieditthethings-20241122214000-WP_Ludicer-20241122093700"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Official_list_of_casualties_from_Hamas_health_ministry" data-mw-thread-id="h-Official_list_of_casualties_from_Hamas_health_ministry-20241122113700"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Official_list_of_casualties_from_Hamas_health_ministry-20241122113700"></span>Official list of casualties from Hamas health ministry<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Official_list_of_casualties_from_Hamas_health_ministry-20241122113700"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Talk:Mohammed_Deif&action=edit&section=7" title="Edit section: Official list of casualties from Hamas health ministry"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-2405:6E00:421:BF7F:3CFA:3E38:C579:97CF-20241122113700-Official_list_of_casualties_from_Hamas_health_ministry"></span>Does anyone have access to the official list of fatalities provided by Hamas? I was just wondering if Sinwar and other prominent figures were on the list, and maybe accidentally Deif. Alternatively, I wonder if a "martyrs and missing persons" form was filled out and if this information is published for public viewing. <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/2405:6E00:421:BF7F:3CFA:3E38:C579:97CF" title="Special:Contributions/2405:6E00:421:BF7F:3CFA:3E38:C579:97CF">2405:6E00:421:BF7F:3CFA:3E38:C579:97CF</a> (<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:2405:6E00:421:BF7F:3CFA:3E38:C579:97CF&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User talk:2405:6E00:421:BF7F:3CFA:3E38:C579:97CF (page does not exist)">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Mohammed_Deif#c-2405:6E00:421:BF7F:3CFA:3E38:C579:97CF-20241122113700-Official_list_of_casualties_from_Hamas_health_ministry" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">11:37, 22 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-2405:6E00:421:BF7F:3CFA:3E38:C579:97CF-20241122113700-Official_list_of_casualties_from_Hamas_health_ministry"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-2405:6E00:421:BF7F:3CFA:3E38:C579:97CF-20241122113700-Official_list_of_casualties_from_Hamas_health_ministry"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-The_Great_Mule_of_Eupatoria-20241123074200-2405:6E00:421:BF7F:3CFA:3E38:C579:97CF-20241122113700"></span>The Gaza health ministry death toll is based mainly on medical records, so it’s safe to assume most if not all of the deaths reported by them are civilian as militants killed in battle would be on the battlefield</dd> <dd>the last publication of the Gaza health ministry was 31 August, 649 pages with 34,000 names including cases with notoriety like <a href="/wiki/Killing_of_Hind_Rajab" title="Killing of Hind Rajab">Hind rajab</a></dd> <dd>this is the PDF of the names</dd> <dd><a rel="nofollow" class="external free" href="https://drive.google.com/file/d/16dyrQ5sEm4KkLx1bXyjsLW16fH-hXhBF/view">https://drive.google.com/file/d/16dyrQ5sEm4KkLx1bXyjsLW16fH-hXhBF/view</a> <a href="/wiki/User:The_Great_Mule_of_Eupatoria" title="User:The Great Mule of Eupatoria">The Great Mule of Eupatoria</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:The_Great_Mule_of_Eupatoria" title="User talk:The Great Mule of Eupatoria">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Mohammed_Deif#c-The_Great_Mule_of_Eupatoria-20241123074200-2405:6E00:421:BF7F:3CFA:3E38:C579:97CF-20241122113700" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">07:42, 23 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-The_Great_Mule_of_Eupatoria-20241123074200-2405:6E00:421:BF7F:3CFA:3E38:C579:97CF-20241122113700"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-The_Great_Mule_of_Eupatoria-20241123074200-2405:6E00:421:BF7F:3CFA:3E38:C579:97CF-20241122113700"></span></dd></dl>    </div><noscript><img src="https://login.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:CentralAutoLogin/start?type=1x1" alt="" width="1" height="1" style="border: none; position: absolute;"></noscript> <div class="printfooter" data-nosnippet="">Retrieved from "<a dir="ltr" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Mohammed_Deif&oldid=1259239164">https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Mohammed_Deif&oldid=1259239164</a>"</div></div> <div id="catlinks" class="catlinks" data-mw="interface"><div id="mw-normal-catlinks" class="mw-normal-catlinks"><a href="/wiki/Help:Category" title="Help:Category">Categories</a>: <ul><li><a href="/wiki/Category:Former_good_article_nominees" title="Category:Former good article nominees">Former good article 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