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Bohemian Baltimore subsection</span> </button> <ul id="toc-Bohemian_Baltimore-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> <li id="toc-Request_concerning_Bohemian_Baltimore" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-2"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Request_concerning_Bohemian_Baltimore"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">1.1</span> <span>Request concerning Bohemian Baltimore</span> </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Request_concerning_Bohemian_Baltimore-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Discussion_concerning_Bohemian_Baltimore" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-2"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Discussion_concerning_Bohemian_Baltimore"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">1.2</span> <span>Discussion concerning Bohemian Baltimore</span> </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Discussion_concerning_Bohemian_Baltimore-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> <li id="toc-Statement_by_Bohemian_Baltimore" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-3"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Statement_by_Bohemian_Baltimore"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">1.2.1</span> <span>Statement by Bohemian Baltimore</span> </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Statement_by_Bohemian_Baltimore-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Statement_by_Raladic" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-3"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Statement_by_Raladic"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">1.2.2</span> <span>Statement by Raladic</span> </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Statement_by_Raladic-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Statement_by_Valereee" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-3"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Statement_by_Valereee"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">1.2.3</span> <span>Statement by Valereee</span> </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Statement_by_Valereee-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Statement_by_Yuchitown" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-3"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Statement_by_Yuchitown"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">1.2.4</span> <span>Statement by Yuchitown</span> </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Statement_by_Yuchitown-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Statement_by_Aquillion" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-3"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Statement_by_Aquillion"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">1.2.5</span> <span>Statement by Aquillion</span> </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Statement_by_Aquillion-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Statement_by_Clayoquot" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-3"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Statement_by_Clayoquot"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">1.2.6</span> <span>Statement by Clayoquot</span> </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Statement_by_Clayoquot-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Statement_by_Nil_Einne" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-3"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Statement_by_Nil_Einne"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">1.2.7</span> <span>Statement by Nil Einne</span> </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Statement_by_Nil_Einne-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Statement_by_Hemiauchenia" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-3"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Statement_by_Hemiauchenia"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">1.2.8</span> <span>Statement by Hemiauchenia</span> </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Statement_by_Hemiauchenia-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Statement_by_Pingnova" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-3"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Statement_by_Pingnova"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">1.2.9</span> <span>Statement by Pingnova</span> </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Statement_by_Pingnova-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Statement_by_Andrevan" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-3"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Statement_by_Andrevan"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">1.2.10</span> <span>Statement by Andrevan</span> </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Statement_by_Andrevan-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Statement_by_theleekycauldron" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-3"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Statement_by_theleekycauldron"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">1.2.11</span> <span>Statement by theleekycauldron</span> </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Statement_by_theleekycauldron-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Statement_by_(username)" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-3"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Statement_by_(username)"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">1.2.12</span> <span>Statement by (username)</span> </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Statement_by_(username)-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Result_concerning_Bohemian_Baltimore" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-2"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Result_concerning_Bohemian_Baltimore"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">1.3</span> <span>Result concerning Bohemian Baltimore</span> </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Result_concerning_Bohemian_Baltimore-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Request_for_1RR_at_Fascism" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Request_for_1RR_at_Fascism"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">2</span> <span>Request for 1RR at Fascism</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">18 comments</span> <ul id="toc-Request_for_1RR_at_Fascism-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Southasianhistorian8" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Southasianhistorian8"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">3</span> <span>Southasianhistorian8</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">45 comments</span> <button aria-controls="toc-Southasianhistorian8-sublist" class="cdx-button cdx-button--weight-quiet cdx-button--icon-only vector-toc-toggle"> <span class="vector-icon mw-ui-icon-wikimedia-expand"></span> <span>Toggle Southasianhistorian8 subsection</span> </button> <ul id="toc-Southasianhistorian8-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> <li id="toc-Request_concerning_Southasianhistorian8" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-2"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Request_concerning_Southasianhistorian8"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">3.1</span> <span>Request concerning Southasianhistorian8</span> </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Request_concerning_Southasianhistorian8-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Discussion_concerning_Southasianhistorian8" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-2"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Discussion_concerning_Southasianhistorian8"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">3.2</span> <span>Discussion concerning Southasianhistorian8</span> </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Discussion_concerning_Southasianhistorian8-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> <li id="toc-Statement_by_Southasianhistorian8" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-3"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Statement_by_Southasianhistorian8"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">3.2.1</span> <span>Statement by Southasianhistorian8</span> </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Statement_by_Southasianhistorian8-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Statement_by_Southasianhistorian8_2" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-3"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Statement_by_Southasianhistorian8_2"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">3.2.2</span> <span>Statement by Southasianhistorian8</span> </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Statement_by_Southasianhistorian8_2-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Statement_by_(103.251.217.66_(talk))" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-3"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Statement_by_(103.251.217.66_(talk))"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">3.2.3</span> <span>Statement by (103.251.217.66 (talk))</span> </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Statement_by_(103.251.217.66_(talk))-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Statement_by_Simonm223" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-3"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Statement_by_Simonm223"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">3.2.4</span> <span>Statement by Simonm223</span> </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Statement_by_Simonm223-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Statement_by_Swatjester" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-3"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Statement_by_Swatjester"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">3.2.5</span> <span>Statement by Swatjester</span> </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Statement_by_Swatjester-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Statement_by_Black_Kite" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-3"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Statement_by_Black_Kite"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">3.2.6</span> <span>Statement by Black Kite</span> </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Statement_by_Black_Kite-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Statement_by_(username)_2" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-3"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Statement_by_(username)_2"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">3.2.7</span> <span>Statement by (username)</span> </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Statement_by_(username)_2-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Result_concerning_Southasianhistorian8" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-2"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Result_concerning_Southasianhistorian8"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">3.3</span> <span>Result concerning Southasianhistorian8</span> </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Result_concerning_Southasianhistorian8-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-GhostOfDanGurney" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#GhostOfDanGurney"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">4</span> <span>GhostOfDanGurney</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">13 comments</span> <button aria-controls="toc-GhostOfDanGurney-sublist" class="cdx-button cdx-button--weight-quiet cdx-button--icon-only vector-toc-toggle"> <span class="vector-icon mw-ui-icon-wikimedia-expand"></span> <span>Toggle GhostOfDanGurney subsection</span> </button> <ul id="toc-GhostOfDanGurney-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> <li id="toc-Request_concerning_GhostOfDanGurney" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-2"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Request_concerning_GhostOfDanGurney"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">4.1</span> <span>Request concerning GhostOfDanGurney</span> </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Request_concerning_GhostOfDanGurney-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Discussion_concerning_GhostOfDanGurney" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-2"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Discussion_concerning_GhostOfDanGurney"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">4.2</span> <span>Discussion concerning GhostOfDanGurney</span> </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Discussion_concerning_GhostOfDanGurney-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> <li id="toc-Statement_by_GhostOfDanGurney" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-3"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Statement_by_GhostOfDanGurney"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">4.2.1</span> <span>Statement by GhostOfDanGurney</span> </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Statement_by_GhostOfDanGurney-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Statement_by_(username)_3" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-3"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Statement_by_(username)_3"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">4.2.2</span> <span>Statement by (username)</span> </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Statement_by_(username)_3-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Result_concerning_GhostOfDanGurney" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-2"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Result_concerning_GhostOfDanGurney"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">4.3</span> <span>Result concerning GhostOfDanGurney</span> </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Result_concerning_GhostOfDanGurney-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Blockhaj" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Blockhaj"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">5</span> <span>Blockhaj</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">8 comments</span> <button aria-controls="toc-Blockhaj-sublist" class="cdx-button cdx-button--weight-quiet cdx-button--icon-only vector-toc-toggle"> <span class="vector-icon mw-ui-icon-wikimedia-expand"></span> <span>Toggle Blockhaj subsection</span> </button> <ul id="toc-Blockhaj-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> <li id="toc-Request_concerning_Blockhaj" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-2"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Request_concerning_Blockhaj"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">5.1</span> <span>Request concerning Blockhaj</span> </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Request_concerning_Blockhaj-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Discussion_concerning_Blockhaj" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-2"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Discussion_concerning_Blockhaj"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">5.2</span> <span>Discussion concerning Blockhaj</span> </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Discussion_concerning_Blockhaj-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> <li id="toc-Statement_by_Blockhaj" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-3"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Statement_by_Blockhaj"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">5.2.1</span> <span>Statement by Blockhaj</span> </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Statement_by_Blockhaj-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Statement_by_(username)_4" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-3"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Statement_by_(username)_4"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">5.2.2</span> <span>Statement by (username)</span> </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Statement_by_(username)_4-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Result_concerning_Blockhaj" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-2"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Result_concerning_Blockhaj"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">5.3</span> <span>Result concerning Blockhaj</span> </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Result_concerning_Blockhaj-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Arbitration_enforcement_action_appeal_by_Ecrusized" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Arbitration_enforcement_action_appeal_by_Ecrusized"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">6</span> <span>Arbitration enforcement action appeal by Ecrusized</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">10 comments</span> <button aria-controls="toc-Arbitration_enforcement_action_appeal_by_Ecrusized-sublist" class="cdx-button cdx-button--weight-quiet cdx-button--icon-only vector-toc-toggle"> <span class="vector-icon mw-ui-icon-wikimedia-expand"></span> <span>Toggle Arbitration enforcement action appeal by Ecrusized subsection</span> </button> <ul id="toc-Arbitration_enforcement_action_appeal_by_Ecrusized-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> <li id="toc-Statement_by_Ecrusized" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-2"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Statement_by_Ecrusized"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">6.1</span> <span>Statement by Ecrusized</span> </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Statement_by_Ecrusized-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Statement_by_ScottishFinnishRadish" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-2"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Statement_by_ScottishFinnishRadish"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">6.2</span> <span>Statement by ScottishFinnishRadish</span> </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Statement_by_ScottishFinnishRadish-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Statement_by_Red-tailed_hawk" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-2"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Statement_by_Red-tailed_hawk"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">6.3</span> <span>Statement by Red-tailed hawk</span> </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Statement_by_Red-tailed_hawk-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Statement_by_(involved_editor_2)" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-2"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Statement_by_(involved_editor_2)"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">6.4</span> <span>Statement by (involved editor 2)</span> </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Statement_by_(involved_editor_2)-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Discussion_among_uninvolved_editors_about_the_appeal_by_Ecrusized" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-2"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Discussion_among_uninvolved_editors_about_the_appeal_by_Ecrusized"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">6.5</span> <span>Discussion among uninvolved editors about the appeal by Ecrusized</span> </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Discussion_among_uninvolved_editors_about_the_appeal_by_Ecrusized-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> <li id="toc-Statement_by_(uninvolved_editor_1)" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-3"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Statement_by_(uninvolved_editor_1)"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">6.5.1</span> <span>Statement by (uninvolved editor 1)</span> </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Statement_by_(uninvolved_editor_1)-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Statement_by_(uninvolved_editor_2)" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-3"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Statement_by_(uninvolved_editor_2)"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">6.5.2</span> <span>Statement by (uninvolved editor 2)</span> </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Statement_by_(uninvolved_editor_2)-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Result_of_the_appeal_by_Ecrusized" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-2"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Result_of_the_appeal_by_Ecrusized"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">6.6</span> <span>Result of the appeal by Ecrusized</span> </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Result_of_the_appeal_by_Ecrusized-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Carthradge" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Carthradge"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">7</span> <span>Carthradge</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">2 comments</span> <button aria-controls="toc-Carthradge-sublist" class="cdx-button cdx-button--weight-quiet cdx-button--icon-only vector-toc-toggle"> <span class="vector-icon mw-ui-icon-wikimedia-expand"></span> <span>Toggle Carthradge subsection</span> </button> <ul id="toc-Carthradge-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> <li id="toc-Request_concerning_Carthradge" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-2"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Request_concerning_Carthradge"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">7.1</span> <span>Request concerning Carthradge</span> </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Request_concerning_Carthradge-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Discussion_concerning_Carthradge" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-2"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Discussion_concerning_Carthradge"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">7.2</span> <span>Discussion concerning Carthradge</span> </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Discussion_concerning_Carthradge-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> <li id="toc-Statement_by_Carthradge" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-3"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Statement_by_Carthradge"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">7.2.1</span> <span>Statement by Carthradge</span> </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Statement_by_Carthradge-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Statement_by_(username)_5" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-3"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Statement_by_(username)_5"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">7.2.2</span> <span>Statement by (username)</span> </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Statement_by_(username)_5-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Result_concerning_Carthradge" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-2"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Result_concerning_Carthradge"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">7.3</span> <span>Result concerning Carthradge</span> </div> </a> <ul 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colspan="2"><link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1129693374"><style data-mw-deduplicate="TemplateStyles:r1239400231">.mw-parser-output .navbar{display:inline;font-size:88%;font-weight:normal}.mw-parser-output .navbar-collapse{float:left;text-align:left}.mw-parser-output .navbar-boxtext{word-spacing:0}.mw-parser-output .navbar ul{display:inline-block;white-space:nowrap;line-height:inherit}.mw-parser-output .navbar-brackets::before{margin-right:-0.125em;content:"[ "}.mw-parser-output .navbar-brackets::after{margin-left:-0.125em;content:" ]"}.mw-parser-output .navbar li{word-spacing:-0.125em}.mw-parser-output .navbar a>span,.mw-parser-output .navbar a>abbr{text-decoration:inherit}.mw-parser-output .navbar-mini abbr{font-variant:small-caps;border-bottom:none;text-decoration:none;cursor:inherit}.mw-parser-output .navbar-ct-full{font-size:114%;margin:0 7em}.mw-parser-output .navbar-ct-mini{font-size:114%;margin:0 4em}html.skin-theme-clientpref-night .mw-parser-output .navbar li a abbr{color:var(--color-base)!important}@media(prefers-color-scheme:dark){html.skin-theme-clientpref-os .mw-parser-output .navbar li a abbr{color:var(--color-base)!important}}@media print{.mw-parser-output .navbar{display:none!important}}</style><div class="navbar plainlinks hlist navbar-mini"><ul><li class="nv-view"><a href="/wiki/Template:Noticeboard_links" title="Template:Noticeboard links"><abbr title="View this template">v</abbr></a></li><li class="nv-talk"><a href="/wiki/Template_talk:Noticeboard_links" title="Template talk:Noticeboard links"><abbr title="Discuss this template">t</abbr></a></li><li class="nv-edit"><a href="/wiki/Special:EditPage/Template:Noticeboard_links" title="Special:EditPage/Template:Noticeboard links"><abbr title="Edit this template">e</abbr></a></li></ul></div><div id="Noticeboards" style="font-size:114%;margin:0 4em"><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Noticeboards" title="Wikipedia:Noticeboards">Noticeboards</a></div></th></tr><tr><td class="navbox-abovebelow" colspan="2" style="background-color:#CAE1FF;"><div>Wikipedia's centralized <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Request_directory" title="Wikipedia:Request directory">discussion, request, and help venues</a>. For a listing of ongoing discussions and current requests, see the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Dashboard" title="Wikipedia:Dashboard">dashboard</a>. For a related set of forums which do not function as noticeboards see <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Processes#Formal_review" title="Wikipedia:Processes">formal review processes</a>.</div></td></tr><tr><th scope="row" class="navbox-group" style="width:1%;background-color:#CAE1FF;">General</th><td class="navbox-list-with-group navbox-list navbox-odd hlist" style="width:100%;padding:0"><div style="padding:0 0.25em"> <ul><li>Administrators <ul><li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard" title="Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard">Main</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Incidents" title="Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents">Incidents</a></li></ul></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Bots/Noticeboard" title="Wikipedia:Bots/Noticeboard">Bots</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Bureaucrats%27_noticeboard" title="Wikipedia:Bureaucrats' noticeboard">Bureaucrats</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Centralized_discussion" title="Wikipedia:Centralized discussion">Centralized discussion</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Closure_requests" title="Wikipedia:Closure requests">Closure requests</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Education_noticeboard" title="Wikipedia:Education noticeboard">Education</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Interface_administrators%27_noticeboard" title="Wikipedia:Interface administrators' noticeboard">Interface admins</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Main_Page/Errors" title="Wikipedia:Main Page/Errors">Main Page errors</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_on_open_proxies" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject on open proxies">Open proxies</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:VRT_noticeboard" title="Wikipedia:VRT noticeboard">VRT</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Requests_for_oversight" title="Wikipedia:Requests for oversight">Oversight</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Requests_for_permissions" title="Wikipedia:Requests for permissions">User permissions</a></li></ul> </div></td></tr><tr><th scope="row" class="navbox-group" style="width:1%;background-color:#CAE1FF;">Articles and content</th><td class="navbox-list-with-group navbox-list navbox-even hlist" style="width:100%;padding:0"><div style="padding:0 0.25em"> <ul><li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Biographies_of_living_persons/Noticeboard" title="Wikipedia:Biographies of living persons/Noticeboard">Biographies of living persons</a></li> <li>Copyrights <ul><li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Media_copyright_questions" title="Wikipedia:Media copyright questions">Questions on media</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Copyright_problems" title="Wikipedia:Copyright problems">Problems</a></li></ul></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard" title="Wikipedia:Dispute resolution noticeboard">Dispute resolution</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:External_links/Noticeboard" title="Wikipedia:External links/Noticeboard">External links</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Fringe_theories/Noticeboard" title="Wikipedia:Fringe theories/Noticeboard">Fringe theories</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Neutral_point_of_view/Noticeboard" title="Wikipedia:Neutral point of view/Noticeboard">Neutral point of view</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:No_original_research/Noticeboard" title="Wikipedia:No original research/Noticeboard">Original research</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Pending_changes" title="Wikipedia talk:Pending changes">Pending changes</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Reliable_sources/Noticeboard" title="Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Noticeboard">Reliable sources</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Resource_Exchange/Resource_Request" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Resource Exchange/Resource Request">Resource requests</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:SVG_help" title="Wikipedia:SVG help">Scalable vector graphics</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Spam" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Spam">Spam</a> <ul><li><a href="/wiki/MediaWiki_talk:Spam-blacklist" title="MediaWiki talk:Spam-blacklist">Blacklist</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/MediaWiki_talk:Spam-whitelist" title="MediaWiki talk:Spam-whitelist">Whitelist</a></li></ul></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Manual_of_Style" title="Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style">Style</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/MediaWiki_talk:Titleblacklist" title="MediaWiki talk:Titleblacklist">Titleblacklist</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Pages_needing_translation_into_English" title="Wikipedia:Pages needing translation into English">Translation</a></li></ul> </div></td></tr><tr><th scope="row" class="navbox-group" style="width:1%;background-color:#CAE1FF;">Page handling</th><td class="navbox-list-with-group navbox-list navbox-odd hlist" style="width:100%;padding:0"><div style="padding:0 0.25em"> <ul><li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Requests_for_history_merge" title="Wikipedia:Requests for history merge">History merges</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Proposed_article_mergers" title="Wikipedia:Proposed article mergers">Mergers</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Proposed_article_splits" title="Wikipedia:Proposed article splits">Splits</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Requested_moves" title="Wikipedia:Requested moves">Moves</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Requests_for_page_protection" title="Wikipedia:Requests for page protection">Protection</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Requests_for_page_importation" title="Wikipedia:Requests for page importation">Importation</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Deletion_process" title="Wikipedia:Deletion process">XfD</a> <ul><li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion" title="Wikipedia:Articles for deletion">Articles</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Redirects_for_discussion" title="Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion">Redirects</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion" title="Wikipedia:Categories for discussion">Categories</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Templates_for_discussion" title="Wikipedia:Templates for discussion">Templates</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Files_for_discussion" title="Wikipedia:Files for discussion">Files</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Miscellany_for_deletion" title="Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion">Miscellany</a></li></ul></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Requests_for_undeletion" title="Wikipedia:Requests for undeletion">Undeletion</a></li></ul> </div></td></tr><tr><th scope="row" class="navbox-group" style="width:1%;background-color:#CAE1FF;">User conduct</th><td class="navbox-list-with-group navbox-list navbox-even hlist" style="width:100%;padding:0"><div style="padding:0 0.25em"> <ul><li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Conflict_of_interest/Noticeboard" title="Wikipedia:Conflict of interest/Noticeboard">Conflict of interest</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Contributor_copyright_investigations" title="Wikipedia:Contributor copyright investigations">Contributor copyright</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Edit_warring" title="Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Edit warring">Edit warring and 3RR</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Sanctions" title="Wikipedia:Sanctions">Sanctions</a> <ul><li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Editing_restrictions" title="Wikipedia:Editing restrictions">Personal restrictions</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:General_sanctions" title="Wikipedia:General sanctions">General sanctions</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Contentious_topics" title="Wikipedia:Contentious topics">Contentious topics</a></li></ul></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Sockpuppet_investigations" title="Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations">Sockpuppets</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Usernames_for_administrator_attention" title="Wikipedia:Usernames for administrator attention">Usernames</a> (<a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Requests_for_comment/User_names" title="Wikipedia:Requests for comment/User names">Requests for comment</a>)</li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrator_intervention_against_vandalism" title="Wikipedia:Administrator intervention against vandalism">Vandalism</a></li></ul> </div></td></tr><tr><th scope="row" class="navbox-group" style="width:1%;background-color:#CAE1FF;">Other</th><td class="navbox-list-with-group navbox-list navbox-odd hlist" style="width:100%;padding:0"><div style="padding:0 0.25em"> <ul><li>Arbitration <ul><li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration_Committee/Noticeboard" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration Committee/Noticeboard">Committee noticeboard</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests">Requests</a></li> <li><a class="mw-selflink selflink">Enforcement</a></li></ul></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Edit_filter_noticeboard" title="Wikipedia:Edit filter noticeboard">Edit filters</a> <ul><li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Edit_filter/Requested" title="Wikipedia:Edit filter/Requested">Requested</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Edit_filter/False_positives" title="Wikipedia:Edit filter/False positives">False positives</a></li></ul></li> <li>Questions <ul><li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Help_desk" title="Wikipedia:Help desk">Help desk</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Teahouse" title="Wikipedia:Teahouse">Teahouse</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk" title="Wikipedia:Reference desk">Reference desk</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Articles_for_creation/Help_desk" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Articles for creation/Help desk">New articles</a></li></ul></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Requests_for_comment/All" title="Wikipedia:Requests for comment/All">Requests for comment</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Village_pump" title="Wikipedia:Village pump">Village pump</a> <ul><li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Village_pump_(policy)" title="Wikipedia:Village pump (policy)">Policy</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Village_pump_(technical)" title="Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)">Technical</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Village_pump_(proposals)" title="Wikipedia:Village pump (proposals)">Proposals</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Village_pump_(idea_lab)" title="Wikipedia:Village pump (idea lab)">Idea lab</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Village_pump_(WMF)" title="Wikipedia:Village pump (WMF)">WMF</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Village_pump_(miscellaneous)" title="Wikipedia:Village pump (miscellaneous)">Miscellaneous</a></li></ul></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Council/Proposals" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Council/Proposals">WikiProject proposals</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Discussions_for_discussion" title="Wikipedia:Discussions for discussion">Discussions for discussion</a></li></ul> </div></td></tr><tr><td class="navbox-abovebelow" colspan="2" style="background-color:#CAE1FF;"><div><b> <a href="/wiki/Category:Wikipedia_noticeboards" title="Category:Wikipedia noticeboards">Category:Wikipedia noticeboards</a></b></div></td></tr></tbody></table></div><style data-mw-deduplicate="TemplateStyles:r1214005174">body.skin-vector-2022 .mw-parser-output .skip-to-toc,body.skin-timeless .mw-parser-output .skip-to-bottom,.mw-parser-output .skip-to-bottom-timeless{display:none}body.skin-timeless .mw-parser-output .skip-to-bottom-timeless{display:inline}</style> <ul></ul><div class="plainlinks" style="text-align: center; margin: .5em 15%; padding: 0 1em; border: solid #aaa 1px;"> <p><span style="font-size: 125%;"><b><a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:NewSection/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement&preload=Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/preload&editintro=Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/editintro">Click here to add a new enforcement request</a></b></span><br/><b>For appeals: <a href="/wiki/Special:NewSection/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement" title="Special:NewSection/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement">create a new section</a> and use the template <span class="nowrap">{{</span><a href="/wiki/Template:Arbitration_enforcement_appeal" title="Template:Arbitration enforcement appeal">Arbitration enforcement appeal</a><span class="nowrap">}}</span></b><br/> See also: <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration_enforcement_log" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration enforcement log">Logged AE sanctions</a> </p> </div> <div class="plainlinks" style="margin: 1px;"> <style data-mw-deduplicate="TemplateStyles:r1238436933">.mw-parser-output .ombox{margin:4px 0;border-collapse:collapse;border:1px solid #a2a9b1;background-color:var(--background-color-neutral-subtle,#f8f9fa);box-sizing:border-box;color:var(--color-base,#202122)}.mw-parser-output .ombox.mbox-small{font-size:88%;line-height:1.25em}.mw-parser-output .ombox-speedy{border:2px solid #b32424;background-color:#fee7e6}.mw-parser-output .ombox-delete{border:2px solid #b32424}.mw-parser-output .ombox-content{border:1px solid #f28500}.mw-parser-output .ombox-style{border:1px solid #fc3}.mw-parser-output .ombox-move{border:1px solid #9932cc}.mw-parser-output .ombox-protection{border:2px solid #a2a9b1}.mw-parser-output .ombox .mbox-text{border:none;padding:0.25em 0.9em;width:100%}.mw-parser-output .ombox .mbox-image{border:none;padding:2px 0 2px 0.9em;text-align:center}.mw-parser-output .ombox .mbox-imageright{border:none;padding:2px 0.9em 2px 0;text-align:center}.mw-parser-output .ombox .mbox-empty-cell{border:none;padding:0;width:1px}.mw-parser-output .ombox .mbox-invalid-type{text-align:center}@media(min-width:720px){.mw-parser-output .ombox{margin:4px 10%}.mw-parser-output .ombox.mbox-small{clear:right;float:right;margin:4px 0 4px 1em;width:238px}}body.skin--responsive .mw-parser-output table.ombox img{max-width:none!important}@media screen{html.skin-theme-clientpref-night .mw-parser-output .ombox-speedy{background-color:#310402}}@media screen and (prefers-color-scheme:dark){html.skin-theme-clientpref-os .mw-parser-output .ombox-speedy{background-color:#310402}}</style><table class="plainlinks ombox ombox-delete" role="presentation" style="background-color: var(--background-color-destructive-subtle, #ffe9e5); border: 2px solid #c00; margin: 6px; color: inherit;"><tbody><tr><td class="mbox-image"><span typeof="mw:File"><span><img alt="" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/1/15/Ambox_warning_pn.svg/40px-Ambox_warning_pn.svg.png" decoding="async" width="40" height="35" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/1/15/Ambox_warning_pn.svg/60px-Ambox_warning_pn.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/1/15/Ambox_warning_pn.svg/80px-Ambox_warning_pn.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="512" data-file-height="445"/></span></span></td><td class="mbox-text"><span style="font-size: 1.3em; text-decoration: underline;"><b>Important information</b></span><style data-mw-deduplicate="TemplateStyles:r1252059228">.mw-parser-output .module-shortcutboxplain{float:right;margin:0 0 0 1em;border:1px solid var(--border-color-base,#a2a9b1);background-color:var(--background-color-base,#fff);padding:0.3em 0.6em 0.2em 0.6em;text-align:center;font-size:85%}.mw-parser-output .module-shortcutboxleft{float:left;margin:0 1em 0 0}.mw-parser-output .module-shortcutlist{display:inline-block;border-bottom:1px solid var(--border-color-base,#a2a9b1);margin-bottom:0.2em}.mw-parser-output .module-shortcutboxplain ul{font-weight:bold}.mw-parser-output .module-shortcutanchordiv{position:relative;top:-3em}.mw-parser-output li .module-shortcutanchordiv{float:right}.mw-parser-output .mbox-imageright .module-shortcutboxplain{padding:0.4em 1em 0.4em 1em;line-height:1.3;margin:0}</style><div class="module-shortcutanchordiv"><span id="WP:AE"></span><span id="WP:ARE"></span></div><div class="module-shortcutboxplain noprint" role="note"><div class="module-shortcutlist"><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Shortcut" title="Wikipedia:Shortcut">Shortcuts</a></div><style data-mw-deduplicate="TemplateStyles:r1126788409">.mw-parser-output .plainlist ol,.mw-parser-output .plainlist ul{line-height:inherit;list-style:none;margin:0;padding:0}.mw-parser-output .plainlist ol li,.mw-parser-output .plainlist ul li{margin-bottom:0}</style><div class="plainlist"><ul><li><span class="plainlinks"><a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:AE&redirect=no">WP:AE</a></span></li><li><span class="plainlinks"><a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:ARE&redirect=no">WP:ARE</a></span></li></ul></div></div> <p>Please use this page <u>only</u> to: </p> <ul><li>request administrative action against editors violating a remedy (not merely a principle) or an injunction in an Arbitration Committee decision, or a <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:AC/CT" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:AC/CT">contentious topic restriction</a> imposed by an <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators" title="Wikipedia:Administrators">administrator</a>,</li> <li>request contentious topic restrictions against <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:AC/CT#Awareness_of_contentious_topics" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:AC/CT">previously alerted</a> editors who engage in misconduct in a topic area designated as a contentious topic,</li> <li>request <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Contentious_topics#Page_restrictions" title="Wikipedia:Contentious topics">page restrictions</a> (e.g. revert restrictions) on pages that are being disrupted in topic areas designated as contentious topics, or</li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration_Committee/Procedures#Standard_provision:_appeals_and_modifications" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration Committee/Procedures">appeal arbitration enforcement actions</a> (including contentious topic restrictions) to uninvolved administrators.</li></ul> <p>For all other problems, including content disagreements or the enforcement of community-imposed sanctions, please use the other fora described in the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution" title="Wikipedia:Dispute resolution">dispute resolution process</a>. To appeal Arbitration Committee decisions, please use <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:ARCA" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:ARCA">the clarification and amendment noticeboard</a>. </p><p><b>Only <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Autoconfirmed" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:Autoconfirmed">autoconfirmed</a> users may file enforcement requests here;</b> requests filed by IPs or accounts less than four days old or with less than 10 edits will be removed. All users are welcome to comment on requests except where doing so would violate an active restriction (such as an <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:ECR" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:ECR">extended-confirmed restriction</a>). If you make an enforcement request or comment on a request, your own conduct may be examined as well, and you may be sanctioned for it. <b>Enforcement requests and statements in response to them may not exceed <i>500 words and 20 diffs</i></b>, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="http://wordcounttools.com/">(Word Count Tool)</a> Statements must be made in separate sections. Non-compliant contributions may be removed or shortened by administrators. Disruptive contributions such as <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:NPA" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:NPA">personal attacks</a>, or groundless or <a href="/wiki/Vexatious" class="mw-redirect" title="Vexatious">vexatious</a> complaints, may result in blocks or other sanctions. </p><p>To make an enforcement request, click on the link above this box and supply all required information. Incomplete requests may be ignored. Requests reporting diffs older than one week may be declined as stale. To appeal a contentious topic restriction or other enforcement decision, please create a new section and use the template <span class="nowrap">{{</span><a href="/wiki/Template:Arbitration_enforcement_appeal" title="Template:Arbitration enforcement appeal">Arbitration enforcement appeal</a><span class="nowrap">}}</span>. </p> <style data-mw-deduplicate="TemplateStyles:r1256386598">.mw-parser-output .cot-header-mainspace{background:#F0F2F5;color:inherit}.mw-parser-output .cot-header-other{background:#CCFFCC;color:inherit}@media screen{html.skin-theme-clientpref-night .mw-parser-output .cot-header-mainspace{background:#14181F;color:inherit}html.skin-theme-clientpref-night .mw-parser-output .cot-header-other{background:#003500;color:inherit}}@media screen and (prefers-color-scheme:dark){html.skin-theme-clientpref-os .mw-parser-output .cot-header-mainspace{background:#14181F;color:inherit}html.skin-theme-clientpref-os .mw-parser-output .cot-header-other{background:#003500;color:inherit}}</style> <div style="margin-left:0"> <table class="mw-collapsible mw-archivedtalk mw-collapsed" style="color:inherit; background: transparent; text-align: left; border: 1px solid Silver; margin: 0.2em auto auto; width:100%; clear: both; padding: 1px;"> <tbody><tr> <th class="cot-header-other" style="; font-size:87%; padding:0.2em 0.3em; text-align:center;"><div style="font-size:115%;margin:0 4em">Appeals and administrator modifications of contentious topics restrictions</div> </th></tr> <tr> <td style="color:inherit; border: solid 1px Silver; padding: 0.6em; background: var(--background-color-base, #fff);"> <p>The <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration_Committee" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration Committee">Arbitration Committee</a> <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Contentious_topics" title="Wikipedia:Contentious topics">procedures</a> relating to modifications of contentious topic restrictions state the following: </p> <style data-mw-deduplicate="TemplateStyles:r1256334245">.mw-parser-output .ivmbox{margin-bottom:1em;border:1px solid var(--border-color-base,#a2a9b1);background-color:var(--background-color-warning-subtle,#fdf2d5);padding:0.5em;display:flex;align-items:center}@media screen{html.skin-theme-clientpref-night .mw-parser-output .ivmbox[style*="background"]{background-color:var(--background-color-warning-subtle,ivory)!important;color:inherit}}@media screen and (prefers-color-scheme:dark){html.skin-theme-clientpref-os .mw-parser-output .ivmbox[style*="background"]{background-color:var(--background-color-warning-subtle,ivory)!important;color:inherit}}.mw-parser-output .ivmbox-image{padding-left:1px;padding-right:0.5em;max-width:100px;flex:1 0 25px}.mw-parser-output .ivmbox-text{padding:0.5em 0}.mw-parser-output .ivmbox-text>:first-child{margin-top:0}.mw-parser-output .ivmbox-text>:last-child{margin-bottom:0}</style><div class="ivmbox" style=""> <div class="ivmbox-text"> <p>All contentious topic restrictions (and <a href="#Warnings">logged warnings</a>) may be appealed. Only the restricted editor may appeal an editor restriction. Any editor may appeal a page restriction. </p><p>The appeal process has three possible stages. An editor appealing a restriction may: </p> <ol><li>ask the administrator who first made the contentious topic restrictions (the "enforcing administrator") to reconsider their original decision;</li> <li>request review at the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:AE" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:AE">arbitration enforcement noticeboard</a> ("AE") or at the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:AN" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:AN">administrators' noticeboard</a> ("AN"); and</li> <li>submit a <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:ARCA" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:ARCA">request for amendment</a> ("ARCA"). If the editor is blocked, the appeal may be made by <a href="/wiki/User:Arbitration_Committee" title="User:Arbitration Committee">email</a>.</li></ol> <p>Appeals submitted at AE or AN must be submitted using the <a href="/wiki/Template:Arbitration_enforcement_appeal" title="Template:Arbitration enforcement appeal">applicable template</a>. </p><p>A rough consensus of administrators at AE or editors at AN may specify a period of up to one year during which no appeals (other than an appeal to ARCA) may be submitted. </p> <dl><dt>Changing or revoking a contentious topic restriction</dt></dl> <p>An administrator may only modify or revoke a contentious topic restriction if a formal appeal is successful or if one of the following exceptions applies: </p> <ul><li>The administrator who originally imposed the contentious topic restriction (the "enforcing administrator") affirmatively consents to the change,<sup id="cite_ref-1" class="reference"><a href="#cite_note-1"><span class="cite-bracket">[</span>a<span class="cite-bracket">]</span></a></sup> or is no longer an administrator;<sup id="cite_ref-2" class="reference"><a href="#cite_note-2"><span class="cite-bracket">[</span>b<span class="cite-bracket">]</span></a></sup> or</li> <li>The contentious topic restriction was imposed (or last renewed) more than a year ago and: <ul><li>the restriction was imposed by a single administrator, or</li> <li>the restriction was an indefinite block.</li></ul></li></ul> <p>A formal appeal is successful only if one of the following agrees with revoking or changing the contentious topic restriction: </p> <ul><li>a <b>clear</b> consensus of uninvolved administrators at AE,</li> <li>a <b>clear</b> consensus of uninvolved editors at AN,</li> <li>a majority of the Arbitration Committee, acting through a motion at ARCA.</li></ul> <p>Any administrator who revokes or changes a contentious topic restriction out of process (i.e. without the above conditions being met) may, at the discretion of the Arbitration Committee, be desysopped. </p> <dl><dt>Standard of review</dt> <dt>On community review</dt></dl> <p>Uninvolved administrators at the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:AE" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:AE">arbitration enforcement noticeboard</a> ("AE") and uninvolved editors at the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:AN" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:AN">administrators' noticeboard</a> ("AN") should revoke or modify a contentious topic restriction on appeal if: </p> <ol><li>the action was inconsistent with the contentious topics procedure or applicable policy (i.e. the action was out of process),</li> <li>the action was not reasonably necessary to prevent damage or disruption when first imposed, or</li> <li>the action is no longer reasonably necessary to prevent damage or disruption.</li></ol> <dl><dt>On Arbitration Committee review</dt></dl> <p>Arbitrators hearing an appeal at a <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:ARCA" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:ARCA">request for amendment</a> ("ARCA") will generally overturn a contentious topic restriction only if: </p> <ol><li>the action was inconsistent with the contentious topics procedure or applicable policy (i.e. the action was out of process),</li> <li>the action represents an unreasonable exercise of administrative enforcement discretion, or</li> <li>compelling circumstances warrant the full Committee's action.</li></ol> </div> </div> <style data-mw-deduplicate="TemplateStyles:r1239543626">.mw-parser-output .reflist{margin-bottom:0.5em;list-style-type:decimal}@media screen{.mw-parser-output .reflist{font-size:90%}}.mw-parser-output .reflist .references{font-size:100%;margin-bottom:0;list-style-type:inherit}.mw-parser-output .reflist-columns-2{column-width:30em}.mw-parser-output .reflist-columns-3{column-width:25em}.mw-parser-output .reflist-columns{margin-top:0.3em}.mw-parser-output .reflist-columns ol{margin-top:0}.mw-parser-output .reflist-columns li{page-break-inside:avoid;break-inside:avoid-column}.mw-parser-output .reflist-upper-alpha{list-style-type:upper-alpha}.mw-parser-output .reflist-upper-roman{list-style-type:upper-roman}.mw-parser-output .reflist-lower-alpha{list-style-type:lower-alpha}.mw-parser-output .reflist-lower-greek{list-style-type:lower-greek}.mw-parser-output .reflist-lower-roman{list-style-type:lower-roman}</style><div class="reflist reflist-lower-alpha"> <div class="mw-references-wrap"><ol class="references"> <li id="cite_note-1"><span class="mw-cite-backlink"><b><a href="#cite_ref-1">^</a></b></span> <span class="reference-text">The administrator may indicate consent at any time before, during, or after imposition of the restriction.</span> </li> <li id="cite_note-2"><span class="mw-cite-backlink"><b><a href="#cite_ref-2">^</a></b></span> <span class="reference-text">This criterion does not apply if the original action was imposed as a result of rough consensus at the arbitration enforcement noticeboard, as there would be no single enforcing administrator.</span> </li> </ol></div></div> </td></tr></tbody></table></div> <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1256386598"> <div style="margin-left:0"> <table class="mw-collapsible mw-archivedtalk mw-collapsed" style="color:inherit; background: transparent; text-align: left; border: 1px solid Silver; margin: 0.2em auto auto; width:100%; clear: both; padding: 1px;"> <tbody><tr> <th class="cot-header-other" style="; font-size:87%; padding:0.2em 0.3em; text-align:center;"><div style="font-size:115%;margin:0 4em">Appeals and administrator modifications of non-contentious topics sanctions</div> </th></tr> <tr> <td style="color:inherit; border: solid 1px Silver; padding: 0.6em; background: var(--background-color-base, #fff);"> <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1256334245"><div class="ivmbox" style=""> <div class="ivmbox-text"> <p>The <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration_Committee" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration Committee">Arbitration Committee</a> <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration_Committee/Procedures" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration Committee/Procedures">procedures</a> relating to modifications and appeals state: </p> <dl><dt>Appeals by sanctioned editors</dt></dl> <p>Appeals may be made only by the editor under sanction and only for a currently active sanction. Requests for modification of page restrictions may be made by any editor. The process has three possible stages (see "Important notes" below). The editor may: </p> <ol><li>ask the enforcing administrator to reconsider their original decision;</li> <li>request review at the <a class="mw-selflink selflink">arbitration enforcement noticeboard</a> ("AE") or at the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard" title="Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard">administrators’ noticeboard</a> ("AN"); and</li> <li>submit a request for amendment at the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Clarification_and_Amendment" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Clarification and Amendment">amendment requests page</a> ("ARCA"). If the editor is blocked, the appeal may be made by email through <a href="/wiki/User:Arbitration_Committee" title="User:Arbitration Committee">Special:EmailUser/Arbitration Committee</a> (or, if email access is revoked, to <span class="nowrap">arbcom-en<span class="mw-no-invert"><span class="skin-invert" typeof="mw:File"><span title="@"><img alt="@" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/88/At_sign.svg/15px-At_sign.svg.png" decoding="async" width="15" height="15" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/88/At_sign.svg/23px-At_sign.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/88/At_sign.svg/30px-At_sign.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="145" data-file-height="145"/></span></span></span>wikimedia.org</span>).</li></ol> <dl><dt>Modifications by administrators</dt></dl> <p>No administrator may modify or remove a sanction placed by another administrator without: </p> <ol><li>the explicit prior affirmative consent of the enforcing administrator; or</li> <li>prior affirmative agreement for the modification at (a) AE or (b) AN or (c) ARCA (see "Important notes" below).</li></ol> <p>Administrators modifying sanctions out of process may at the discretion of the committee be desysopped. </p><p>Nothing in this section prevents an administrator from replacing an existing sanction issued by another administrator with a new sanction if fresh misconduct has taken place after the existing sanction was applied. </p><p>Administrators are free to modify sanctions placed by former administrators – that is, editors who do not have the administrator permission enabled (due to a temporary or permanent relinquishment or desysop) – without regard to the requirements of this section. If an administrator modifies a sanction placed by a former administrator, the administrator who made the modification becomes the "enforcing administrator". If a former administrator regains the tools, the provisions of this section again apply to their unmodified enforcement actions. </p><p><b>Important notes</b>: </p> <ol><li>For a request to succeed, either</li></ol> <dl><dd><dl><dd>(i) the clear and substantial consensus of (a) uninvolved administrators at AE or (b) uninvolved editors at AN or</dd> <dd>(ii) a passing motion of arbitrators at ARCA</dd> <dd>is required. If consensus at AE or AN is unclear, the status quo prevails.</dd></dl></dd></dl> <ol><li class="mw-empty-elt"></li><li value="2"> While asking the enforcing administrator and seeking reviews at AN or AE are not mandatory prior to seeking a decision from the committee, once the committee has reviewed a request, further substantive review at any forum is barred. The sole exception is editors under an active sanction who may still request an easing or removal of the sanction on the grounds that said sanction is no longer needed, but such requests may only be made once every six months, or whatever longer period the committee may specify.</li> <li>These provisions apply only to contentious topic restrictions placed by administrators and to blocks placed by administrators to enforce arbitration case decisions. They do not apply to sanctions directly authorized by the committee, and enacted either by arbitrators or by arbitration clerks, or to special functionary blocks of whatever nature.</li> <li>All actions designated as arbitration enforcement actions, including those alleged to be out of process or against existing policy, must first be appealed following arbitration enforcement procedures to establish if such enforcement is inappropriate before the action may be reversed or formally discussed at another venue.</li></ol> </div> </div> </td></tr></tbody></table></div> <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1256386598"> <div style="margin-left:0"> <table class="mw-collapsible mw-archivedtalk mw-collapsed" style="color:inherit; background: transparent; text-align: left; border: 1px solid Silver; margin: 0.2em auto auto; width:100%; clear: both; padding: 1px;"> <tbody><tr> <th class="cot-header-other" style="; font-size:87%; padding:0.2em 0.3em; text-align:center;"><div style="font-size:115%;margin:0 4em">Information for administrators processing requests</div> </th></tr> <tr> <td style="color:inherit; border: solid 1px Silver; padding: 0.6em; background: var(--background-color-base, #fff);"> <p>Thank you for participating in this area. AE works best if there are a variety of admins bringing their expertise to each case. There is no expectation to comment on every case, and the Arbitration Committee (ArbCom) thanks all admins for whatever time they can give. </p><p>A couple of reminders: </p> <ul><li>Before commenting, please familiarise yourself with the referenced ArbCom case. Please also read all the evidence (including diffs) presented in the AE request.</li> <li>When a request widens to include editors beyond the initial request, these editors must be notified and the notifications recorded in the same way as for the initial editor against whom sanctions were requested. Where some part of the outcome is clear, a partial close may be implemented and noted as "Result concerning X".</li> <li>Enforcement measures in arbitration cases should be construed liberally to protect Wikipedia and keep it running efficiently. Some of the behaviour described in an enforcement request might not be restricted by ArbCom. However, it may violate other Wikipedia policies and guidelines; you may use administrative discretion to resolve it.</li> <li>More than one side in a dispute may have ArbCom conduct rulings applicable to them. Please ensure these are investigated.</li></ul> <p>Closing a thread: </p> <ul><li>Once an issue is resolved, enclose it between <span class="nowrap">{{</span><a href="/wiki/Template:Hat" class="mw-redirect" title="Template:Hat">hat</a><span class="nowrap">}}</span> and <span class="nowrap">{{</span><a href="/wiki/Template:Hab" class="mw-redirect" title="Template:Hab">hab</a><span class="nowrap">}}</span> tags. A bot should archive it in 7 days.</li> <li>Please consider <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:ARCA" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:ARCA">referring the case to ARCA</a> if the outcome is a recommendation to do so or the issue regards administrator conduct.</li> <li>You can use the templates <span class="nowrap">{{</span><a href="/wiki/Template:Uw-aeblock" title="Template:Uw-aeblock">uw-aeblock</a><span class="nowrap">}}</span> (for blocks) or <span class="nowrap">{{</span><a href="/wiki/Template:AE_sanction" title="Template:AE sanction">AE sanction</a><span class="nowrap">}}</span> (for other contentious topic restrictions) to give notice of sanctions on user talk pages.</li> <li>Please log sanctions in the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration_enforcement_log" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration enforcement log">Arbitration enforcement log</a>.</li></ul> <p>Thanks again for helping. If you have any questions, please post on the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:AE" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia talk:AE">talk page</a>. </p> </td></tr></tbody></table></div></td></tr></tbody></table></div><div style="float: right; clear: right; margin: 1em 0 1em 1em; text-align: right"> <table class="noprint" style="border: 1px solid #a2a9b1;font-size:85%; line-height:1.2em; margin:0; width:auto; text-align:center"> <tbody><tr> <th style="background:lavender;font-size: 111%; line-height: 1.25em;" colspan="18"> <table> <tbody><tr> <td style="width:100%;padding-left:3em"><a class="mw-selflink selflink">Arbitration enforcement</a> <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive">archives</a></td> <td><link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1129693374"><link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1239400231"><div class="navbar plainlinks hlist navbar-mini"><ul><li class="nv-view"><a href="/wiki/Template:Arbitration_enforcement/Archive_navbox" title="Template:Arbitration enforcement/Archive navbox"><abbr title="View this template">v</abbr></a></li><li class="nv-talk"><a href="/w/index.php?title=Template_talk:Arbitration_enforcement/Archive_navbox&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Template talk:Arbitration enforcement/Archive navbox (page does not exist)"><abbr title="Discuss this template">t</abbr></a></li><li class="nv-edit"><a href="/wiki/Special:EditPage/Template:Arbitration_enforcement/Archive_navbox" title="Special:EditPage/Template:Arbitration enforcement/Archive navbox"><abbr title="Edit this template">e</abbr></a></li></ul></div> </td></tr></tbody></table> </th></tr> <tr> <td><table style="width: 100%; padding: 0px; text-align: center; background-color: transparent;"><tbody><tr><td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive1" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive1">1</a></td><td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive2" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive2">2</a></td><td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive3" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive3">3</a></td><td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive4" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive4">4</a></td><td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive5" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive5">5</a></td><td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive6" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive6">6</a></td><td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive7" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive7">7</a></td><td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive8" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive8">8</a></td><td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive9" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive9">9</a></td><td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive10" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive10">10</a></td><td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive11" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive11">11</a></td><td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive12" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive12">12</a></td><td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive13" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive13">13</a></td><td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive14" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive14">14</a></td><td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive15" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive15">15</a></td><td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive16" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive16">16</a></td><td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive17" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive17">17</a></td><td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive18" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive18">18</a></td><td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive19" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive19">19</a></td><td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive20" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive20">20</a></td></tr><tr><td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive21" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive21">21</a></td><td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive22" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive22">22</a></td><td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive23" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive23">23</a></td><td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive24" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive24">24</a></td><td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive25" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive25">25</a></td><td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive26" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive26">26</a></td><td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive27" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive27">27</a></td><td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive28" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive28">28</a></td><td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive29" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive29">29</a></td><td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive30" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive30">30</a></td><td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive31" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive31">31</a></td><td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive32" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive32">32</a></td><td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive33" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive33">33</a></td><td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive34" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive34">34</a></td><td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive35" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive35">35</a></td><td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive36" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive36">36</a></td><td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive37" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive37">37</a></td><td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive38" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive38">38</a></td><td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive39" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive39">39</a></td><td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive40" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive40">40</a></td></tr><tr><td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive41" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive41">41</a></td><td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive42" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive42">42</a></td><td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive43" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive43">43</a></td><td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive44" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive44">44</a></td><td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive45" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive45">45</a></td><td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive46" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive46">46</a></td><td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive47" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive47">47</a></td><td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive48" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive48">48</a></td><td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive49" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive49">49</a></td><td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive50" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive50">50</a></td><td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive51" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive51">51</a></td><td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive52" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive52">52</a></td><td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive53" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive53">53</a></td><td><a 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title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive60">60</a></td></tr><tr><td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive61" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive61">61</a></td><td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive62" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive62">62</a></td><td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive63" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive63">63</a></td><td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive64" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive64">64</a></td><td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive65" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive65">65</a></td><td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive66" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive66">66</a></td><td><a 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title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive73">73</a></td><td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive74" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive74">74</a></td><td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive75" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive75">75</a></td><td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive76" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive76">76</a></td><td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive77" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive77">77</a></td><td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive78" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive78">78</a></td><td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive79" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive79">79</a></td><td><a 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title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive86">86</a></td><td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive87" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive87">87</a></td><td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive88" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive88">88</a></td><td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive89" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive89">89</a></td><td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive90" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive90">90</a></td><td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive91" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive91">91</a></td><td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive92" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive92">92</a></td><td><a 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title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive99">99</a></td><td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive100" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive100">100</a></td></tr><tr><td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive101" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive101">101</a></td><td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive102" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive102">102</a></td><td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive103" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive103">103</a></td><td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive104" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive104">104</a></td><td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive105" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive105">105</a></td><td><a 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title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive112">112</a></td><td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive113" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive113">113</a></td><td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive114" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive114">114</a></td><td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive115" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive115">115</a></td><td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive116" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive116">116</a></td><td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive117" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive117">117</a></td><td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive118" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive118">118</a></td><td><a 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title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive125">125</a></td><td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive126" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive126">126</a></td><td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive127" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive127">127</a></td><td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive128" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive128">128</a></td><td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive129" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive129">129</a></td><td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive130" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive130">130</a></td><td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive131" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive131">131</a></td><td><a 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title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive138">138</a></td><td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive139" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive139">139</a></td><td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive140" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive140">140</a></td></tr><tr><td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive141" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive141">141</a></td><td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive142" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive142">142</a></td><td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive143" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive143">143</a></td><td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive144" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive144">144</a></td><td><a 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title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive151">151</a></td><td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive152" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive152">152</a></td><td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive153" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive153">153</a></td><td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive154" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive154">154</a></td><td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive155" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive155">155</a></td><td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive156" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive156">156</a></td><td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive157" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive157">157</a></td><td><a 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title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive164">164</a></td><td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive165" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive165">165</a></td><td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive166" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive166">166</a></td><td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive167" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive167">167</a></td><td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive168" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive168">168</a></td><td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive169" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive169">169</a></td><td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive170" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive170">170</a></td><td><a 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title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive190">190</a></td><td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive191" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive191">191</a></td><td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive192" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive192">192</a></td><td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive193" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive193">193</a></td><td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive194" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive194">194</a></td><td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive195" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive195">195</a></td><td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive196" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive196">196</a></td><td><a 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title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive242">242</a></td><td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive243" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive243">243</a></td><td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive244" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive244">244</a></td><td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive245" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive245">245</a></td><td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive246" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive246">246</a></td><td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive247" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive247">247</a></td><td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive248" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive248">248</a></td><td><a 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title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive255">255</a></td><td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive256" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive256">256</a></td><td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive257" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive257">257</a></td><td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive258" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive258">258</a></td><td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive259" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive259">259</a></td><td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive260" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive260">260</a></td></tr><tr><td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive261" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive261">261</a></td><td><a 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title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive268">268</a></td><td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive269" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive269">269</a></td><td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive270" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive270">270</a></td><td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive271" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive271">271</a></td><td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive272" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive272">272</a></td><td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive273" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive273">273</a></td><td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive274" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive274">274</a></td><td><a 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title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive281">281</a></td><td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive282" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive282">282</a></td><td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive283" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive283">283</a></td><td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive284" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive284">284</a></td><td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive285" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive285">285</a></td><td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive286" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive286">286</a></td><td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive287" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive287">287</a></td><td><a 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title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive320">320</a></td></tr><tr><td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive321" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive321">321</a></td><td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive322" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive322">322</a></td><td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive323" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive323">323</a></td><td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive324" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive324">324</a></td><td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive325" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive325">325</a></td><td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive326" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive326">326</a></td><td><a 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title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive333">333</a></td><td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive334" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive334">334</a></td><td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive335" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive335">335</a></td><td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive336" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive336">336</a></td><td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive337" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive337">337</a></td><td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive338" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive338">338</a></td><td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive339" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive339">339</a></td><td><a 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class="cdx-text-input"><input class="mw-searchInput searchboxInput cdx-text-input__input" name="search" placeholder="" size="40" dir="ltr"/></div><input type="hidden" value="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement" name="prefix"/> <input type="submit" name="fulltext" value="Search archives" class="cdx-button"/><input type="hidden" value="Search" name="fulltext"/></form></div> </td></tr></tbody></table> </div><style data-mw-deduplicate="TemplateStyles:r1141322084">@media all and (max-width:720px){.mw-parser-output .tocleft{width:100%!important}}@media all and (min-width:720px){.mw-parser-output .tocleft{float:left;clear:left;width:auto;margin:0 1em 0.5em 0}body.skin-vector-2022 .mw-parser-output .tocleft{margin:0}.mw-parser-output .tocleft-clear-both{clear:both}.mw-parser-output .tocleft-clear-none{clear:none}}</style><style data-mw-deduplicate="TemplateStyles:r886046785">.mw-parser-output .toclimit-2 .toclevel-1 ul,.mw-parser-output .toclimit-3 .toclevel-2 ul,.mw-parser-output .toclimit-4 .toclevel-3 ul,.mw-parser-output .toclimit-5 .toclevel-4 ul,.mw-parser-output .toclimit-6 .toclevel-5 ul,.mw-parser-output .toclimit-7 .toclevel-6 ul{display:none}</style><div class="tocleft toclimit-2" style=""><meta property="mw:PageProp/toc"/></div><div style="clear:both;" class=""></div> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Bohemian_Baltimore" data-mw-thread-id="h-Bohemian_Baltimore-20241030055000"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Bohemian_Baltimore-20241030055000"></span>Bohemian Baltimore<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Bohemian_Baltimore-20241030055000"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement&action=edit&section=1" title="Edit section: Bohemian Baltimore"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-ScottishFinnishRadish-20241115132000-Bohemian_Baltimore"></span><style data-mw-deduplicate="TemplateStyles:r1256395271">.mw-parser-output .hidden-archive{box-sizing:border-box;border:1px solid #a2a9b1;width:100%;clear:both;text-align:center;padding:1px;margin:0.2em auto 0;font-size:100%}.mw-parser-output .hat-header{padding:0.25em 1em;line-height:1.5em;text-align:center;background-color:#f2dfce;color:inherit}.mw-parser-output .hat-content{border:solid 1px silver;padding:8px;background-color:#fff4f2;color:inherit;text-align:left}@media screen{html.skin-theme-clientpref-night .mw-parser-output .hat-header{background-color:#492b13}html.skin-theme-clientpref-night .mw-parser-output .hat-content{background-color:#391c19}}@media screen and (prefers-color-scheme:dark){html.skin-theme-clientpref-os .mw-parser-output .hat-header{background-color:#492b13}html.skin-theme-clientpref-os .mw-parser-output .hat-content{background-color:#391c19}}</style> <table class="hidden-archive mw-collapsible mw-archivedtalk mw-collapsed"> <tbody><tr> <th class="hat-header"><a href="/wiki/User:Bohemian_Baltimore" title="User:Bohemian Baltimore">Bohemian Baltimore</a> is topic banned from the self-identification or citizenship of <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:BLP" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:BLP">living or recently deceased people</a>, broadly construed. They are further warned against making accusations or casting aspersions without evidence. <a href="/wiki/User:ScottishFinnishRadish" title="User:ScottishFinnishRadish">ScottishFinnishRadish</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:ScottishFinnishRadish" title="User talk:ScottishFinnishRadish">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement#c-ScottishFinnishRadish-20241115132000-Bohemian_Baltimore" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">13:20, 15 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-ScottishFinnishRadish-20241115132000-Bohemian_Baltimore"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-ScottishFinnishRadish-20241115132000-Bohemian_Baltimore"></span> </th></tr> <tr> <td style="font-style:italic;">The following discussion has been closed. <span style="color:var(--color-error, red);"><b>Please do not modify it.</b></span> </td></tr> <tr> <td class="hat-content"> <p><small><i>This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. <br/>Requests may not exceed 500 <a href="/wiki/Word_count#Software" title="Word count">words</a> and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.</i></small> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading3"><h3 id="Request_concerning_Bohemian_Baltimore" data-mw-thread-id="h-Request_concerning_Bohemian_Baltimore-Bohemian_Baltimore-20241030055000"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Request_concerning_Bohemian_Baltimore-Bohemian_Baltimore-20241030055000"></span>Request concerning Bohemian Baltimore<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Request_concerning_Bohemian_Baltimore-Bohemian_Baltimore-20241030055000"></span></h3><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement&action=edit&section=2" title="Edit section: Request concerning Bohemian Baltimore"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span></div> <dl><dt><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Morbidthoughts-20241030055000-Request_concerning_Bohemian_Baltimore"></span>User who is submitting this request for enforcement</dt> <dd><a href="/wiki/User:Morbidthoughts" title="User:Morbidthoughts">Morbidthoughts</a> <span class="plainlinks">(<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Morbidthoughts" title="User talk:Morbidthoughts">talk</a> <b>·</b> <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Morbidthoughts" title="Special:Contributions/Morbidthoughts">contribs</a> <b>·</b> <a href="/wiki/Special:DeletedContributions/Morbidthoughts" title="Special:DeletedContributions/Morbidthoughts">deleted contribs</a> <b>·</b> <a href="/wiki/Special:Log/Morbidthoughts" title="Special:Log/Morbidthoughts">logs</a> <b>·</b> <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3AAbuseLog&wpSearchUser=Morbidthoughts">filter log</a> <b>·</b> <a href="/wiki/Special:Block/Morbidthoughts" title="Special:Block/Morbidthoughts">block user</a> <b>·</b> <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3ALog%2Fblock&page=User%3AMorbidthoughts">block log</a>)</span> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement#c-Morbidthoughts-20241030055000-Request_concerning_Bohemian_Baltimore" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">05:50, 30 October 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Morbidthoughts-20241030055000-Request_concerning_Bohemian_Baltimore"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Morbidthoughts-20241030055000-Request_concerning_Bohemian_Baltimore"></span></dd></dl> <dl><dt><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Morbidthoughts-20241102001600-Request_concerning_Bohemian_Baltimore"></span>User against whom enforcement is requested</dt> <dd><a href="/wiki/User:Bohemian_Baltimore" title="User:Bohemian Baltimore">Bohemian Baltimore</a> <span class="plainlinks">(<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Bohemian_Baltimore" title="User talk:Bohemian Baltimore">talk</a> <b>·</b> <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Bohemian_Baltimore" title="Special:Contributions/Bohemian Baltimore">contribs</a> <b>·</b> <a href="/wiki/Special:DeletedContributions/Bohemian_Baltimore" title="Special:DeletedContributions/Bohemian Baltimore">deleted contribs</a> <b>·</b> <a href="/wiki/Special:Log/Bohemian_Baltimore" title="Special:Log/Bohemian Baltimore">logs</a> <b>·</b> <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3AAbuseLog&wpSearchUser=Bohemian+Baltimore">filter log</a> <b>·</b> <a href="/wiki/Special:Block/Bohemian_Baltimore" title="Special:Block/Bohemian Baltimore">block user</a> <b>·</b> <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3ALog%2Fblock&page=User%3ABohemian+Baltimore">block log</a>)</span><p><span class="plainlinks">Search CT alerts<a href="/wiki/Template:Contentious_topics/log" title="Template:Contentious topics/log">:</a> <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Bohemian_Baltimore&action=history&tagfilter=contentious+topics+alert">in user talk history</a> • <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:AbuseLog&wpSearchFilter=602&wpSearchTitle=User+talk%3ABohemian+Baltimore">in system log</a></span></p></dd> <dt>Sanction or remedy to be enforced</dt> <dd><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Requests_for_arbitration/Editing_of_Biographies_of_Living_Persons" title="Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Editing of Biographies of Living Persons">Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Editing of Biographies of Living Persons</a></dd></dl> <dl><dt><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:DIFF" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:DIFF">Diffs</a> of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation <i>how</i> these edits violate it</dt> <dd></dd></dl> <ol><li><a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Grant_Fuhr&diff=prev&oldid=1253400184">19:52, 25 October 2024</a> Adding self-identification category to Grant Fuhr without direct support from article and its cited sources. Reverted by me.</li> <li><a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Pedro_Guanikeyu_Torres&diff=prev&oldid=1253387838">18:35, 25 October 2024</a> Replacing Taino descent category with self-identification category. Was reverted by <a href="/wiki/User:Lewisguile" title="User:Lewisguile">User:Lewisguile</a> noting same issue.</li> <li><a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Joan_Smalls&diff=prev&oldid=1253387756">18:34, 25 October 2024</a> Replacing Taino descent category with self-identification category. Reverted by Lewisguile noting same issue.</li> <li><a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Marc_Yaffee&diff=prev&oldid=1252712366">16:43, 22 October 2024</a> Replacing Navajo People category with self-identification Indigenous Mexican category. Reverted by me because neither article text nor its cited sources verify self-identification.</li></ol> <dl><dt>Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any</dt> <dd></dd></dl> <dl><dt>If <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Contentious_topics" title="Wikipedia:Contentious topics">contentious topics restrictions</a> are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:CTOP#Awareness_of_contentious_topics" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:CTOP">WP:CTOP#Awareness of contentious topics</a>)</dt> <dd></dd></dl> <ul><li>Alerted about discretionary sanctions or contentious topics in the area of conflict, on <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Bohemian_Baltimore&diff=prev&oldid=1226379868">07:49, 30 May 2024</a> (see the system log linked to above).</li></ul> <dl><dt>Additional comments by editor filing complaint</dt> <dd></dd></dl> <p>I first learned about Bohemian Baltimore's disputed edits that introduce a self-identification qualifier to biographies of living people without explicit support from RSes on a May BLP Noticeboard discussion about Patricia Norby.<a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Biographies_of_living_persons/Noticeboard/Archive360#Patricia_Marroquin_Norby">[1]</a> Consensus was against these edits. As far as I can tell, Bohemian Baltimore has made hundreds of this type of edits since 2023, mostly by use of categories.<a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Poison_Waters&diff=prev&oldid=1140552500">[2]</a> The categories are very contentious themselves based on a prior CfD discussion.<a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2024_October_15#Category:American_people_who_self-identify_as_being_of_Native_American_descent">[3]</a> I have reverted many of these edits and previously warned Bohemian Baltimore in August about this.<a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Bohemian_Baltimore&diff=prev&oldid=1239083501">[4]</a><a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Bohemian_Baltimore&diff=next&oldid=1239086672">[5]</a><a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Lorna_Dee_Cervantes&diff=prev&oldid=1238509983">[6]</a> </p><p>I believe Bohemian Baltimore should be barred from BLPs involving Native/Indigenous topics. </p> <dl><dd>Despite YuchiTown's attempt to rationalise the self-identification label, I'd like the reviewing administrators to consider what also happened when the categories were linked to the individual biographies as raised in the CfD discussion. It is not just the word self-identify that is added. When people click on the category page, they can see variations of the following summary about the listed people: "This category page lists notable citizens of the United States who <b>claim</b> to have _____ ancestry but <b>who have no proof of this heritage</b>. In some cases they make the claim despite having been proven to have no ______ heritage at all." with a later <a href="/wiki/Pretendian" title="Pretendian">Pretendian</a> link. BB created these categories and their corresponding summaries<a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Category:American_people_who_self-identify_as_being_of_Shoshone_descent&oldid=1218457304">[7]</a><a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Category:American_people_who_self-identify_as_being_of_Kiowa_descent&oldid=1217337976">[8]</a><a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Category:American_people_who_self-identify_as_being_of_Navajo_descent&oldid=1195861727">[9]</a><a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Category:Puerto_Rican_people_who_self-identify_as_being_of_Ta%C3%ADno_descent&oldid=1218360990">[10]</a> and then linked people to these non-neutral contentions without direct <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:SYN" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:SYN">unchained</a> support from RSes. Think of the impact these unsourced gatekeeping assertions have on people. <a href="/wiki/User:Morbidthoughts" title="User:Morbidthoughts">Morbidthoughts</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Morbidthoughts" title="User talk:Morbidthoughts">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement#c-Morbidthoughts-20241102001600-Request_concerning_Bohemian_Baltimore" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:16, 2 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Morbidthoughts-20241102001600-Request_concerning_Bohemian_Baltimore"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Morbidthoughts-20241102001600-Request_concerning_Bohemian_Baltimore"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Morbidthoughts-20241107171700-Morbidthoughts-20241102001600"></span>@<a href="/wiki/User:Barkeep49" title="User:Barkeep49">Barkeep49</a>,@<a href="/wiki/User:Seraphimblade" title="User:Seraphimblade">Seraphimblade</a>, @<a href="/wiki/User:ScottishFinnishRadish" title="User:ScottishFinnishRadish">ScottishFinnishRadish</a> Similar to <a href="/wiki/User:Hemiauchenia" title="User:Hemiauchenia">Hemiauchenia</a>'s example, I thought it was weird that BB brought up a lack of literacy and racism<a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Oprah_Winfrey&diff=prev&oldid=1239082657">[11]</a> in a discussion about whether a third-party report of a DNA test supported a self-identification of descent category. BB questioned another user's reading comprehension<a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Patricia_Marroquin_Norby&diff=prev&oldid=1226194348">[12]</a> in the Norby talk page discussion when that person objected about self-identification on OR grounds. <a href="/wiki/User:Morbidthoughts" title="User:Morbidthoughts">Morbidthoughts</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Morbidthoughts" title="User talk:Morbidthoughts">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement#c-Morbidthoughts-20241107171700-Morbidthoughts-20241102001600" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:17, 7 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Morbidthoughts-20241107171700-Morbidthoughts-20241102001600"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Morbidthoughts-20241107171700-Morbidthoughts-20241102001600"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl> <dl><dt>Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested</dt> <dd></dd></dl> <p><a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Bohemian_Baltimore&diff=prev&oldid=1254268709">[13]</a> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading3"><h3 id="Discussion_concerning_Bohemian_Baltimore" data-mw-thread-id="h-Discussion_concerning_Bohemian_Baltimore-Bohemian_Baltimore-20241031034800"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Discussion_concerning_Bohemian_Baltimore-Bohemian_Baltimore-20241031034800"></span>Discussion concerning Bohemian Baltimore<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Discussion_concerning_Bohemian_Baltimore-Bohemian_Baltimore-20241031034800"></span></h3><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement&action=edit&section=3" title="Edit section: Discussion concerning Bohemian Baltimore"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span></div> <p><small><i>Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 <a href="/wiki/Word_count#Software" title="Word count">words</a> and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.<br/>Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.</i></small> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading4"><h4 id="Statement_by_Bohemian_Baltimore" data-mw-thread-id="h-Statement_by_Bohemian_Baltimore-Discussion_concerning_Bohemian_Baltimore-20241031093800"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Statement_by_Bohemian_Baltimore-Discussion_concerning_Bohemian_Baltimore-20241031093800"></span>Statement by Bohemian Baltimore<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Statement_by_Bohemian_Baltimore-Discussion_concerning_Bohemian_Baltimore-20241031093800"></span></h4><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement&action=edit&section=4" title="Edit section: Statement by Bohemian Baltimore"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Bohemian_Baltimore-20241031100200-Statement_by_Bohemian_Baltimore"></span>I do not appreciate this transparent attempt to harass me and censor my contributions to Wikipedia. Each of these individuals was either adopted or self-identifies as <a href="/wiki/Ta%C3%ADno" title="Taíno">Taíno</a>. None of these people have tribal citizenship; the source of their Indigenous identity is very literally through their own self-identification rather than through any <a href="/wiki/Tribal_sovereignty_in_the_United_States" title="Tribal sovereignty in the United States">tribal citizenship</a>. As for the ArbCom discussion, where is this "consensus"? Where is this stated and by whom? What binding precedent was set or rules established for editing? Please, enlighten me. What exactly am I missing here? It is very disappointing and alarming that this user is deploying strong-arm tactics to permanently suppress the contributions of Native and allied editors. This is not the first time this editor has defamed or harassed me, based on his own idiosyncratic and self-declared definition of self-identification. There are many ways to handle disputes. Trying to get me banned from editing is outrageous and controlling and it undermines Wikipedia's diversity. <a href="/wiki/User:Bohemian_Baltimore" title="User:Bohemian Baltimore">Bohemian Baltimore</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Bohemian_Baltimore" title="User talk:Bohemian Baltimore">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement#c-Bohemian_Baltimore-20241031100200-Statement_by_Bohemian_Baltimore" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">10:02, 31 October 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Bohemian_Baltimore-20241031100200-Statement_by_Bohemian_Baltimore"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Bohemian_Baltimore-20241031100200-Statement_by_Bohemian_Baltimore"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Bohemian_Baltimore-20241031093800-Bohemian_Baltimore-20241031100200"></span>@<a href="/wiki/User:Raladic" title="User:Raladic">Raladic</a> Please stick to the topic. I regard dragging these long dead and irrelevant debates into this conversation as a smear. I made an attempt to improve visibility for gay, lesbian, transgender, and bisexual people; to address erasure and invisibility of LGBT people, as a proud member of the LGBT community. I will not apologize for being queer. <a href="/wiki/User:Bohemian_Baltimore" title="User:Bohemian Baltimore">Bohemian Baltimore</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Bohemian_Baltimore" title="User talk:Bohemian Baltimore">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement#c-Bohemian_Baltimore-20241031093800-Bohemian_Baltimore-20241031100200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">09:38, 31 October 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Bohemian_Baltimore-20241031093800-Bohemian_Baltimore-20241031100200"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Bohemian_Baltimore-20241031093800-Bohemian_Baltimore-20241031100200"></span></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Bohemian_Baltimore-20241031170700-Bohemian_Baltimore-20241031100200"></span>@<a href="/wiki/User:ScottishFinnishRadish" title="User:ScottishFinnishRadish">ScottishFinnishRadish</a> What knowledge do you have of tribal citizenship? Is this a topic you have attempted to research and educate yourself on before declaring that I should be banned? Tribal citizenship is very much verifiable and defining. The fact that the Taino have no tribal citizenship is not "original research". It's simply a fact. <a href="/wiki/User:Bohemian_Baltimore" title="User:Bohemian Baltimore">Bohemian Baltimore</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Bohemian_Baltimore" title="User talk:Bohemian Baltimore">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement#c-Bohemian_Baltimore-20241031170700-Bohemian_Baltimore-20241031100200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:07, 31 October 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Bohemian_Baltimore-20241031170700-Bohemian_Baltimore-20241031100200"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Bohemian_Baltimore-20241031170700-Bohemian_Baltimore-20241031100200"></span></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Bohemian_Baltimore-20241101050800-Bohemian_Baltimore-20241031170700"></span>@<a href="/wiki/User:Valereee" title="User:Valereee">Valereee</a> American Indian tribes under law are sovereign nations with citizens. There are neo-Taíno revivalist organizations that promote Taíno identity and who promote reviving a distinct Taíno culture, which was assimilated into the Spanish-speaking Puerto Rican culture centuries ago. However, these non-profit organizations are not tribes. Typically, they are registered as 501c3s. They have no citizens. They have no sovereignty. The basis of their identity is purely through their own self-identification, rather than any legal status. Whether or not a group <i>should be</i> recognized as a tribe is an opinion. Not that my opinion really matters, but I know of several groups of American Indian descendants who have no recognition as a tribe, but who I think should be recognized. The Taíno revivalists lack of any sovereign nation is a fact, not an opinion. A Puerto Rican who self-identifies as Taíno is simply a US citizen. Whereas, for example, an enrolled Cherokee Nation member is both a citizen of the US and a citizen of the Cherokee Nation. <a href="/wiki/User:Bohemian_Baltimore" title="User:Bohemian Baltimore">Bohemian Baltimore</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Bohemian_Baltimore" title="User talk:Bohemian Baltimore">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement#c-Bohemian_Baltimore-20241101050800-Bohemian_Baltimore-20241031170700" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">05:08, 1 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Bohemian_Baltimore-20241101050800-Bohemian_Baltimore-20241031170700"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Bohemian_Baltimore-20241101050800-Bohemian_Baltimore-20241031170700"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl> <ul><li><dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Bohemian_Baltimore-20241101045500-Bohemian_Baltimore-20241031170700"></span>@<a href="/wiki/User:Newyorkbrad" title="User:Newyorkbrad">Newyorkbrad</a> In the United States, American Indian tribes are defined as "domestic dependent, sovereign nations" under law with government-to-government relationships with the US government. Members of tribes are citizens of sovereign nations. Being Native American is a matter of citizenship and sovereignty, not merely a question of race, color, ethnicity, or ancestry. There are no Taíno tribes in the United States. Due to genocide, disease, assimilation and other factors, the Taíno assimilated into the larger Puerto Rican population. The Taíno language is extinct. The Taíno as a culturally distinct people have not existed for centuries. In recent years, some Puerto Ricans have begun to self-identify as Taíno based on their DNA heritage. These neo-Taínos self-identify as Indigenous due to centuries old Indigenous ancestry. No Taíno group is recognized as a sovereign nation. That is to say, neo-Taíno identity is inherently a question of self-identification rather than citizenship in a sovereign nation. Puerto Ricans who self-identify as neo-Taíno are US citizens and they have no additional tribal citizenship. The term "self-identification", while wrongly perceived by some uninformed white editors as a pejorative term, is actually widely used by Indigenous peoples. The term is used by the <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://www.doi.gov/hawaiian/self-identification-exercise-self-determination">Department of the Interior</a>, the <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://www.un.org/en/fight-racism/vulnerable-groups/indigenous-peoples">United Nations</a>, the <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://www.oas.org/en/sare/documents/DecAmIND.pdf">Organization of American States</a>, and many other bodies. The fact that neo-Taíno revivalists have no recognition as sovereign nations is just that, a fact. The question of whether a neo-Taíno group <i>should</i> be recognized is a separate matter. That's an opinion. Their lack of sovereignty is not an opinion. It is a fact. Right now, historical Taíno people of Puerto Rico who lived during colonial and pre-colonial times are in the category <a href="/wiki/Category:Ta%C3%ADno_people_from_Puerto_Rico" title="Category:Taíno people from Puerto Rico">Category:Taíno people from Puerto Rico</a>. Whereas, neo-Taíno revivalists were listed under <a href="/w/index.php?title=Category:Puerto_Rican_people_who_self-identify_as_being_of_Ta%C3%ADno_descent&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category:Puerto Rican people who self-identify as being of Taíno descent (page does not exist)">Category:Puerto Rican people who self-identify as being of Taíno descent</a>. That category was emptied and nominated for deletion. The people who were in the category are now under <a href="/wiki/Category:Puerto_Rican_people_of_Ta%C3%ADno_descent" title="Category:Puerto Rican people of Taíno descent">Category:Puerto Rican people of Taíno descent</a>. The historic Taíno people are clearly distinct from neo-Taíno revivalists who invoke DNA heritage, and for navigational purposes there should be separate categories for these separate groups of people. <a href="/wiki/User:Bohemian_Baltimore" title="User:Bohemian Baltimore">Bohemian Baltimore</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Bohemian_Baltimore" title="User talk:Bohemian Baltimore">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement#c-Bohemian_Baltimore-20241101045500-Bohemian_Baltimore-20241031170700" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">04:55, 1 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Bohemian_Baltimore-20241101045500-Bohemian_Baltimore-20241031170700"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Bohemian_Baltimore-20241101045500-Bohemian_Baltimore-20241031170700"></span></dd></dl></li></ul> <dl><dd><dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Bohemian_Baltimore-20241101051800-Bohemian_Baltimore-20241031170700"></span>@<a href="/wiki/User:Raladic" title="User:Raladic">Raladic</a> I really despise having to re-hash ancient and irrelevant drama, but some of the categories I created were actually kept. So actually, it was a useful and productive conversation about the visibility of queer people within the ace community, and about the definition of bisexuality (and the "two or more genders" definition I used is actually widespread and normative, despite Wikipedia's fossilized conservatism on these matters). I do not like homophobia. I do not like being subject to homophobic attacks. These old conversations have been irrelevantly thrown in my face, on-Wiki and off-Wiki, by multiple people. Your intent doesn't really make a difference. To assume good faith, I am sure you and Mason <i>think of yourselves</i> as harmlessly correcting mistakes. Whereas, I view it as objectively homophobic as it creates a hostile environment for queer editors. I do not feel welcomed or respected as a queer person on Wikipedia. I feel defamed and excluded. <a href="/wiki/User:Bohemian_Baltimore" title="User:Bohemian Baltimore">Bohemian Baltimore</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Bohemian_Baltimore" title="User talk:Bohemian Baltimore">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement#c-Bohemian_Baltimore-20241101051800-Bohemian_Baltimore-20241031170700" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">05:18, 1 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Bohemian_Baltimore-20241101051800-Bohemian_Baltimore-20241031170700"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Bohemian_Baltimore-20241101051800-Bohemian_Baltimore-20241031170700"></span></dd></dl></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Bohemian_Baltimore-20241113010500-Bohemian_Baltimore-20241031100200"></span>@<a href="/wiki/User:Theleekycauldron" title="User:Theleekycauldron">Theleekycauldron</a> Unbelievable. Name one time there has been a "behavioral problem" in regards to Jewish topics. I'm a queer Jew and I have contributed greatly to queer, Jewish, and queer Jewish topics on Wikipedia. This discussion has clearly gotten out of hand. The proposal was to topic ban me from Indigenous self-identification. Now, I am being told I should basically be banned from almost every topic I focus on. This is just censorship, at this point. <a href="/wiki/User:Bohemian_Baltimore" title="User:Bohemian Baltimore">Bohemian Baltimore</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Bohemian_Baltimore" title="User talk:Bohemian Baltimore">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement#c-Bohemian_Baltimore-20241113010500-Bohemian_Baltimore-20241031100200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:05, 13 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Bohemian_Baltimore-20241113010500-Bohemian_Baltimore-20241031100200"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Bohemian_Baltimore-20241113010500-Bohemian_Baltimore-20241031100200"></span></dd></dl> <ul><li><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Bohemian_Baltimore-20241113023000-Bohemian_Baltimore-20241031100200"></span>@<a href="/wiki/User:Seraphimblade" title="User:Seraphimblade">Seraphimblade</a> I discuss the atmosphere of racism and homophobia on Wikipedia, problems I consider structural rather than individual. This is something Wikipedia acknowledges is a problem, for example, in these articles: <a href="/wiki/Racial_bias_on_Wikipedia" title="Racial bias on Wikipedia">Racial bias on Wikipedia</a>, <a href="/wiki/Gender_bias_on_Wikipedia" title="Gender bias on Wikipedia">Gender bias on Wikipedia</a>. I do not say that a person is a racist or a homophobe in any of the cited examples. My concern here is whether this amounts to <a href="/wiki/Tone_policing" title="Tone policing">tone policing</a> or not, and I worry that clamping down on editors for discussing problems of perceived or actual racial bias or any other kind of bias will create a chilling climate that discourages diverse voices from participating. Particularly when what is widely considered acceptable evidence or an acceptable argument often falls in the favor of the majority group. I think it is also important to remember that perceptions of who is "aggressive" and who is merely assertive or blunt is often colored by biases of various kinds; whether they be sexual, racial, ethnic, religious, or economic. <a href="/wiki/User:Bohemian_Baltimore" title="User:Bohemian Baltimore">Bohemian Baltimore</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Bohemian_Baltimore" title="User talk:Bohemian Baltimore">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement#c-Bohemian_Baltimore-20241113023000-Bohemian_Baltimore-20241031100200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:30, 13 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Bohemian_Baltimore-20241113023000-Bohemian_Baltimore-20241031100200"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Bohemian_Baltimore-20241113023000-Bohemian_Baltimore-20241031100200"></span></li> <li><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Bohemian_Baltimore-20241113012000-Bohemian_Baltimore-20241031100200"></span>@<a href="/wiki/User:Theleekycauldron" title="User:Theleekycauldron">Theleekycauldron</a> I would appreciate factual statements, rather than false statements. Name one time I called anyone an idiot on Wikipedia. Where have I stated that someone was acting in bad faith? I talk about <a href="/wiki/Racial_bias_on_Wikipedia" title="Racial bias on Wikipedia">Racial bias on Wikipedia</a>, and indeed there's a whole article about the problem, because Wikipedia acknowledges that it is a problem. Discussing the problem of racism is not maligning people. And if we are supposed to be quiet and hush about the racial bias on Wikipedia, then that silences the ability of diverse voices to participate and it hold Wikipedia back. Saying that I should be topic banned from basically everything I edit because I'm apparently not nice enough or pleasing enough is addressing my <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Pearl-clutching" title="Wikipedia:Pearl-clutching"> personality</a>, not the substance of what I write. <a href="/wiki/User:Bohemian_Baltimore" title="User:Bohemian Baltimore">Bohemian Baltimore</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Bohemian_Baltimore" title="User talk:Bohemian Baltimore">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement#c-Bohemian_Baltimore-20241113012000-Bohemian_Baltimore-20241031100200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:20, 13 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Bohemian_Baltimore-20241113012000-Bohemian_Baltimore-20241031100200"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Bohemian_Baltimore-20241113012000-Bohemian_Baltimore-20241031100200"></span></li> <li><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Bohemian_Baltimore-20241113020300-Bohemian_Baltimore-20241031100200"></span>@<a href="/wiki/User:ScottishFinnishRadish" title="User:ScottishFinnishRadish">ScottishFinnishRadish</a> As I mentioned and linked above, there's been a whisper campaign on Tumblr to "stop" me and other editors (including @<a href="/wiki/User:Doug_Weller" title="User:Doug Weller">User:Doug Weller</a>, for some inexplicable reason). Pingnova and at least one other Wikipedia editor (prismatic-bell, Wiki username unknown) have participated in this discussion, that we know of. There could be others. The Tumblr user Moniquill (Monique "Blackgoose" Poirier of the <a href="/wiki/Seaconke_Wampanoag_Tribe" title="Seaconke Wampanoag Tribe">Seaconke Wampanoag Tribe</a>) and her followers have insinuated that because they disagree with my Indigenous-related editing, that I'm automatically suspicious on any Jewish or LGBTQ matter. My Jewish editing has never been contested. My LGBTQ editing of many, many years was questioned on one occasion based on a differing opinion on who is LGBTQ (the question was whether asexuals who identify as straight are queer, believe it or not), and some of the categories I created were actually kept in those discussions. So, the idea that I am some "controversial" person is a manufactured idea being promoted by individuals who have a vested interest in a particular Indigenous viewpoint, and vested interests in me being quiet. I think that's wrong and that I'm being unfairly maligned. <a href="/wiki/User:Bohemian_Baltimore" title="User:Bohemian Baltimore">Bohemian Baltimore</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Bohemian_Baltimore" title="User talk:Bohemian Baltimore">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement#c-Bohemian_Baltimore-20241113020300-Bohemian_Baltimore-20241031100200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:03, 13 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Bohemian_Baltimore-20241113020300-Bohemian_Baltimore-20241031100200"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Bohemian_Baltimore-20241113020300-Bohemian_Baltimore-20241031100200"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Bohemian_Baltimore-20241113014200-Bohemian_Baltimore-20241113020300"></span>@<a href="/wiki/User:Vanamonde93" title="User:Vanamonde93">Vanamonde93</a> It's also a long-dead dispute that was decided upon and the decisions of which I respected, and it has not been an issue since. Furthermore, some of the categories I created were actually kept, so not all of the edits I made were contested let alone deleted. I'm concerned that my personality is under scrutiny here when we should be focusing on the subject of Indigenous self-identification. I'm also alarmed that some Wikipedia editors have spoken negatively about me on Tumblr, which makes me fear that canvassing in happening. <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://vaspider.tumblr.com/post/752567133249077248/just-flipping-through-bohemian-baltimores-last">This thread in particular</a> on Tumblr attacks me and insinuates that I might be anti-Jewish or anti-LGBTQ (I'm a queer Jew), simply because they objected to my Native-related edits. So I find it suspicious that all of the issues in that Tumblr thread are being dredged up here, when the issue was narrowly about Indigenous self-identification. The Tumblr user prismatic-bell, who also mentions being a Wikipedia editor, wrote: "Would it be worth it to see if there’s overlap between these malicious editors, and if so, make that an additional angle of approach? I feel like the more groups we can prove are being harmed, the more likely Wikipedia will be to remedy the issue", as well as later writing "And what do we do to stop them, re: the rest?", suggesting they are advocating that something be done against me and other editors. The editor Doug Weller is also singled out for scrutiny. <a href="/wiki/User:Bohemian_Baltimore" title="User:Bohemian Baltimore">Bohemian Baltimore</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Bohemian_Baltimore" title="User talk:Bohemian Baltimore">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement#c-Bohemian_Baltimore-20241113014200-Bohemian_Baltimore-20241113020300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:42, 13 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Bohemian_Baltimore-20241113014200-Bohemian_Baltimore-20241113020300"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Bohemian_Baltimore-20241113014200-Bohemian_Baltimore-20241113020300"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Bohemian_Baltimore-20241113014900-Bohemian_Baltimore-20241113014200"></span>@<a href="/wiki/User:Barkeep49" title="User:Barkeep49">Barkeep49</a> If "aspersions and accusations are important to note", then I would argue that the above mentioned off-wiki whisper campaign to "stop" me and other editors, involving at least two Wikipedia editors (one of whom is right here in this discussion) is also something to be noted. <a href="/wiki/User:Bohemian_Baltimore" title="User:Bohemian Baltimore">Bohemian Baltimore</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Bohemian_Baltimore" title="User talk:Bohemian Baltimore">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement#c-Bohemian_Baltimore-20241113014900-Bohemian_Baltimore-20241113014200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:49, 13 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Bohemian_Baltimore-20241113014900-Bohemian_Baltimore-20241113014200"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Bohemian_Baltimore-20241113014900-Bohemian_Baltimore-20241113014200"></span></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Bohemian_Baltimore-20241113021500-Bohemian_Baltimore-20241113014200"></span>@<a href="/wiki/User:Seraphimblade" title="User:Seraphimblade">Seraphimblade</a> Notifying you of this whisper campaign as well. <a href="/wiki/User:Bohemian_Baltimore" title="User:Bohemian Baltimore">Bohemian Baltimore</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Bohemian_Baltimore" title="User talk:Bohemian Baltimore">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement#c-Bohemian_Baltimore-20241113021500-Bohemian_Baltimore-20241113014200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:15, 13 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Bohemian_Baltimore-20241113021500-Bohemian_Baltimore-20241113014200"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Bohemian_Baltimore-20241113021500-Bohemian_Baltimore-20241113014200"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></li></ul> <ul><li><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Bohemian_Baltimore-20241113025700-Bohemian_Baltimore-20241031100200"></span>I would like to request that @<a href="/wiki/User:Pingnova" title="User:Pingnova">User:Pingnova</a> edit the comment about me to "they". I am not a "he". Thank you. <a href="/wiki/User:Bohemian_Baltimore" title="User:Bohemian Baltimore">Bohemian Baltimore</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Bohemian_Baltimore" title="User talk:Bohemian Baltimore">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement#c-Bohemian_Baltimore-20241113025700-Bohemian_Baltimore-20241031100200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:57, 13 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Bohemian_Baltimore-20241113025700-Bohemian_Baltimore-20241031100200"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Bohemian_Baltimore-20241113025700-Bohemian_Baltimore-20241031100200"></span></li></ul> <dl><dd><dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Bohemian_Baltimore-20241113011000-Bohemian_Baltimore-20241113025700"></span>@<a href="/wiki/User:Yuchitown" title="User:Yuchitown">Yuchitown</a> I think now that we see people expanding the question, and saying that I should be banned from all Indigenous topics and all Jewish topics and all LGBTQ topics, and perhaps even banned from all topics related to any "marginalized peoples", that this is no longer a question of policy. It's a question of personality. Effectively, a number of people are chiming in to advocate that I simply be banned from editing almost every topic I focus on. That's censorship targeting an individual. It's harmful to me, but beyond that, it harms Wikipedia and reduces the diversity of voices here. <a href="/wiki/User:Bohemian_Baltimore" title="User:Bohemian Baltimore">Bohemian Baltimore</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Bohemian_Baltimore" title="User talk:Bohemian Baltimore">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement#c-Bohemian_Baltimore-20241113011000-Bohemian_Baltimore-20241113025700" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:10, 13 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Bohemian_Baltimore-20241113011000-Bohemian_Baltimore-20241113025700"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Bohemian_Baltimore-20241113011000-Bohemian_Baltimore-20241113025700"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl> <ul><li><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Bohemian_Baltimore-20241113024700-Bohemian_Baltimore-20241113011000"></span>@<a href="/wiki/User:ScottishFinnishRadish" title="User:ScottishFinnishRadish">ScottishFinnishRadish</a> When I wrote, "I hope these are mistakes on your part", that is explicitly NOT claiming that the person is racist. And that person agreed that it was a mistake, so I was correct. Furthermore, I never accused the person above of being homophobic themselves. In fact, I explicitly stated that I <i>did not</i> think that person was acting in bad faith. I am surprised that my words are being characterized as overly harsh, when on both occasions I went out of my way to acknowledge that the other person was likely simply mistaken. <a href="/wiki/User:Bohemian_Baltimore" title="User:Bohemian Baltimore">Bohemian Baltimore</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Bohemian_Baltimore" title="User talk:Bohemian Baltimore">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement#c-Bohemian_Baltimore-20241113024700-Bohemian_Baltimore-20241113011000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:47, 13 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Bohemian_Baltimore-20241113024700-Bohemian_Baltimore-20241113011000"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Bohemian_Baltimore-20241113024700-Bohemian_Baltimore-20241113011000"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></li></ul> <ul><li><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Bohemian_Baltimore-20241115031300-Bohemian_Baltimore-20241031100200"></span>@<a href="/wiki/User:ScottishFinnishRadish" title="User:ScottishFinnishRadish">ScottishFinnishRadish</a> I would like to reiterate that you and other admins are aware that there is a canvassing and harassment campaign against me and the issue was never addressed. <a href="/wiki/User:Bohemian_Baltimore" title="User:Bohemian Baltimore">Bohemian Baltimore</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Bohemian_Baltimore" title="User talk:Bohemian Baltimore">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement#c-Bohemian_Baltimore-20241115031300-Bohemian_Baltimore-20241031100200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">03:13, 15 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Bohemian_Baltimore-20241115031300-Bohemian_Baltimore-20241031100200"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Bohemian_Baltimore-20241115031300-Bohemian_Baltimore-20241031100200"></span></li></ul> <ul><li><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Bohemian_Baltimore-20241115031700-Bohemian_Baltimore-20241031100200"></span>@<a href="/wiki/User:ScottishFinnishRadish" title="User:ScottishFinnishRadish">ScottishFinnishRadish</a> I would also like to know why I would be banned from editing on Jewish-related topics. My Jewish-related editing has never been disputed, nor has anyone here given a reason any example of problematic editing around Jews/Judaism. Not examples, let alone a pattern. This is overkill. It's extreme and it makes zero sense. <a href="/wiki/User:Bohemian_Baltimore" title="User:Bohemian Baltimore">Bohemian Baltimore</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Bohemian_Baltimore" title="User talk:Bohemian Baltimore">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement#c-Bohemian_Baltimore-20241115031700-Bohemian_Baltimore-20241031100200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">03:17, 15 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Bohemian_Baltimore-20241115031700-Bohemian_Baltimore-20241031100200"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Bohemian_Baltimore-20241115031700-Bohemian_Baltimore-20241031100200"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Bohemian_Baltimore-20241115032200-Bohemian_Baltimore-20241115031700"></span>@<a href="/wiki/User:ScottishFinnishRadish" title="User:ScottishFinnishRadish">ScottishFinnishRadish</a> Furthermore, what does "self-identification or citizenship of living or recently deceased people" even mean? That's so broad it could mean almost anything. Am I going to be slapped with a warning, for example, if I categorize someone as an "American writer", because that's a reference to citizenship? <a href="/wiki/User:Bohemian_Baltimore" title="User:Bohemian Baltimore">Bohemian Baltimore</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Bohemian_Baltimore" title="User talk:Bohemian Baltimore">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement#c-Bohemian_Baltimore-20241115032200-Bohemian_Baltimore-20241115031700" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">03:22, 15 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Bohemian_Baltimore-20241115032200-Bohemian_Baltimore-20241115031700"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Bohemian_Baltimore-20241115032200-Bohemian_Baltimore-20241115031700"></span></dd></dl></li></ul> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading4"><h4 id="Statement_by_Raladic" data-mw-thread-id="h-Statement_by_Raladic-Discussion_concerning_Bohemian_Baltimore-20241031034800"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Statement_by_Raladic-Discussion_concerning_Bohemian_Baltimore-20241031034800"></span>Statement by Raladic<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Statement_by_Raladic-Discussion_concerning_Bohemian_Baltimore-20241031034800"></span></h4><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement&action=edit&section=5" title="Edit section: Statement by Raladic"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Raladic-20241031034800-Statement_by_Raladic"></span>A similar issue around identities also occurred a few months ago in the LGBTQ space when @BB created a series of erroneous categories and tried to shift categories into sub-categories that would mis-categorize people with different LGBTQ identities. Refer to <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Bohemian_Baltimore#Aromanticism_and_Asexuality_are_the_A_of_LGBTQIA+_and_Intersex_is_the_I_and_is_inherently_an_LGBTQIA+_identity" title="User talk:Bohemian Baltimore">User talk:Bohemian Baltimore#Aromanticism and Asexuality are the A of LGBTQIA+ and Intersex is the I and is inherently an LGBTQIA+ identity</a> and this one <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Bohemian_Baltimore#Pansexuality_is_not_the_same_as_bisexuality" title="User talk:Bohemian Baltimore">User talk:Bohemian Baltimore#Pansexuality is not the same as bisexuality</a> by @<a href="/wiki/User:Mason" title="User:Mason">Mason</a> for context. And the resulting cleanup that had to be made afterwards per <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2024_April_7#Category:LGBT_asexual_people" title="Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2024 April 7">Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2024 April 7#Category:LGBT asexual people</a> these wrong categorizations. So it does appear that the user may have a pattern of, while good-faith, wrong categorizations of BLPs, which are problematic, so a warning to be more careful of working on categorization of BLPs may be appropriate. <a href="/wiki/User:Raladic" title="User:Raladic">Raladic</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Raladic" title="User talk:Raladic">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement#c-Raladic-20241031034800-Statement_by_Raladic" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">03:48, 31 October 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Raladic-20241031034800-Statement_by_Raladic"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Raladic-20241031034800-Statement_by_Raladic"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Raladic-20241031141200-Raladic-20241031034800"></span>No smear is intended, I merely pointed out that as I said above, that while I fully believe you made the changes in good faith, they were clerically incorrect as was pointed out in the subsequent discussions. I also fully appreciate you trying to increase visibility for LGBTQ people, as that is where I spend a lot of my time on Wikipedia as well as a queer person myself. <a href="/wiki/User:Raladic" title="User:Raladic">Raladic</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Raladic" title="User talk:Raladic">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement#c-Raladic-20241031141200-Raladic-20241031034800" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">14:12, 31 October 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Raladic-20241031141200-Raladic-20241031034800"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Raladic-20241031141200-Raladic-20241031034800"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Raladic-20241113025600-Raladic-20241031141200"></span>I am concerned that it appears that BB is doubling down with their latest series of replies today and have still <a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#c-Bohemian_Baltimore-20241101051800-Bohemian_Baltimore-20241031170700">not struck/retracted their accusation here</a>, despite having been asked by @<a href="/wiki/User:Vanamonde93" title="User:Vanamonde93">Vanamonde93</a> several <a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#c-Vanamonde93-20241102153500-Vanamonde93-20241101160500">days ago here</a>. It looks like they are not able to see their own baseless accusations when all the other editors did point out an erroneous categorization on their part and by the looks of <a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#c-Bohemian_Baltimore-20241113020300-Bohemian_Baltimore-20241031100200">this here</a>, they still disagree despite multiple editors having explained their misunderstanding. <a href="/wiki/User:Raladic" title="User:Raladic">Raladic</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Raladic" title="User talk:Raladic">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement#c-Raladic-20241113025600-Raladic-20241031141200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:56, 13 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Raladic-20241113025600-Raladic-20241031141200"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Raladic-20241113025600-Raladic-20241031141200"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading4"><h4 id="Statement_by_Valereee" data-mw-thread-id="h-Statement_by_Valereee-Discussion_concerning_Bohemian_Baltimore-20241031122200"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Statement_by_Valereee-Discussion_concerning_Bohemian_Baltimore-20241031122200"></span>Statement by Valereee<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Statement_by_Valereee-Discussion_concerning_Bohemian_Baltimore-20241031122200"></span></h4><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement&action=edit&section=6" title="Edit section: Statement by Valereee"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Valereee-20241031122200-Statement_by_Valereee"></span>I had similar interactions at <a href="/wiki/Talk:Indigenous_cuisine_of_the_Americas#Content/context_removal?" title="Talk:Indigenous cuisine of the Americas">Talk:Indigenous_cuisine_of_the_Americas#Content/context_removal?</a> regarding removal of identification of individuals as native American in Wikivoice over the tribe not being recognized by federal/state governments, at that article and at <a href="/wiki/Louis_Trevino" title="Louis Trevino">Louis Trevino</a> and <a href="/wiki/Vincent_Medina" title="Vincent Medina">Vincent Medina</a>. BB wanted to insert 'self-identify as'. They did drop it after I pointed out the NYT was calling them <a href="/wiki/Ohlone" title="Ohlone">Ohlone</a> and another editor reverted them, but BB does seem to be pretty focussed on the concept of self-identification (vs. identifying in WV) of BLPs if they don't agree a group officially exists or how it's defined? <a href="/wiki/User:Valereee" title="User:Valereee">Valereee</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Valereee" title="User talk:Valereee">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement#c-Valereee-20241031122200-Statement_by_Valereee" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">12:22, 31 October 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Valereee-20241031122200-Statement_by_Valereee"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Valereee-20241031122200-Statement_by_Valereee"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Valereee-20241031151900-Valereee-20241031122200"></span>NYB, I'd like to hear that explanation w/re: identification of members of <i>any</i> tribe that isn't officially recognized by a government body. <a href="/wiki/User:Valereee" title="User:Valereee">Valereee</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Valereee" title="User talk:Valereee">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement#c-Valereee-20241031151900-Valereee-20241031122200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:19, 31 October 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Valereee-20241031151900-Valereee-20241031122200"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Valereee-20241031151900-Valereee-20241031122200"></span></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Valereee-20241031172300-Valereee-20241031122200"></span>@<a href="/wiki/User:Bohemian_Baltimore" title="User:Bohemian Baltimore">Bohemian Baltimore</a>, so you are saying that if a tribe isn't officially recognized by a government body, Wikipedia should be referring to folks as "self-identified", even if RS are referring to them as tribal members, because no one can actually be a member of a such a tribe? <a href="/wiki/User:Valereee" title="User:Valereee">Valereee</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Valereee" title="User talk:Valereee">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement#c-Valereee-20241031172300-Valereee-20241031122200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:23, 31 October 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Valereee-20241031172300-Valereee-20241031122200"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Valereee-20241031172300-Valereee-20241031122200"></span></dd> <dd><a href="/wiki/Special:PermanentLink/1218457304" title="Special:PermanentLink/1218457304"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Valereee-20241102125400-Valereee-20241031122200"></span>This category page lists notable citizens of the United States who claim to have Shoshone ancestry but who have no proof of this heritage. In some cases they make the claim despite having been proven to have no Shoshone heritage at all</a> is pointy, RGW, and a BLP vio. I'm sympathetic to the fact there are many people out there making such false claims, but I feel like this is basically categorizing people as liars. <a href="/wiki/User:Valereee" title="User:Valereee">Valereee</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Valereee" title="User talk:Valereee">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement#c-Valereee-20241102125400-Valereee-20241031122200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">12:54, 2 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Valereee-20241102125400-Valereee-20241031122200"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Valereee-20241102125400-Valereee-20241031122200"></span></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading4"><h4 id="Statement_by_Yuchitown" data-mw-thread-id="h-Statement_by_Yuchitown-Discussion_concerning_Bohemian_Baltimore-20241101144900"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Statement_by_Yuchitown-Discussion_concerning_Bohemian_Baltimore-20241101144900"></span>Statement by Yuchitown<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Statement_by_Yuchitown-Discussion_concerning_Bohemian_Baltimore-20241101144900"></span></h4><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement&action=edit&section=7" title="Edit section: Statement by Yuchitown"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Yuchitown-20241101144900-Statement_by_Yuchitown"></span>Bohemian Baltimore should not be banned from Native American topics. None of their edits to topics relating to <a href="/wiki/Indian_Country" class="mw-redirect" title="Indian Country">Indian Country</a> have been controversial or contested. Instead, MorbidThoughts has followed Bohemian Baltimore around and decided unilaterally that “self-identified” must be censored with certain individuals from Wikipedia. I was part of the <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Biographies_of_living_persons/Noticeboard#Patricia_Marroquin_Norby">Norby noticeboard discussion</a>; the consensus was that <i>New York Post</i> was not an <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:RS" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:RS">WP:RS</a> and <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:CLAIM" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:CLAIM">WP:CLAIM</a> precludes the use of the word “claim” in BLPs. <a href="/wiki/Native_American_identity_in_the_United_States" title="Native American identity in the United States">Native American identity</a> is controversial and contested; it is a unique political identity in the United States.<a rel="nofollow" class="external autonumber" href="https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/1536504220950395">[14]</a> In published literature about Native American identity, variations of “self-identified” are used freely (<a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Indigenous_peoples_of_North_America#Self-identification" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Indigenous peoples of North America">examples here</a>). Self-identified does not mean “fraud”; it means exactly what the dictionary states: <span style="color:green;">“To identify or describe oneself as belonging to a particular category or group of people; to assign a particular characteristic or categorization to oneself.”</span><a rel="nofollow" class="external autonumber" href="https://www.oed.com/dictionary/self-identify_v?tl=true">[15]</a> A unique phenomenon has evolved in the US of tens of thousands of people believing and stating they have Native American ancestry without substantiating that belief (discussion and citations can be found at <a href="/wiki/Cherokee_descent" title="Cherokee descent">Cherokee descent</a>). Making a statement of Native American descent is self-identification. I’ve yet to see anyone produce a published citation saying that the term “self-identification” is an unacceptable term in regard to statements of Native American descent. If MorbidThoughts would like to propose the censorship of this term as Wikipedia policy, they need to go through that process, as opposed to unilaterally deciding it is Wikipedia policy and attempting to get Bohemian Baltimore topic-banned based on their unsourced, personal feelings. <a href="/wiki/User:Yuchitown" title="User:Yuchitown">Yuchitown</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Yuchitown" title="User talk:Yuchitown">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement#c-Yuchitown-20241101144900-Statement_by_Yuchitown" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">14:49, 1 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Yuchitown-20241101144900-Statement_by_Yuchitown"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Yuchitown-20241101144900-Statement_by_Yuchitown"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Yuchitown-20241110191800-Yuchitown-20241101144900"></span>For those suggesting a topic ban, I'd just like reiterate that Bohemian Baltimore's edits to topics related to <a href="/wiki/Indian_Country" class="mw-redirect" title="Indian Country">Indian Country</a> and to <a href="/wiki/Federally_recognized_tribes" class="mw-redirect" title="Federally recognized tribes">federally recognized tribes</a> have not be remotely controversial and have been extremely helpful. The contested gray area of unrecognized organizations and individuals have been the topic areas where other editors have made pushbacks. It would be a loss to the encyclopedia to lose this editor's contributions to Indian Country topics. These two topic areas are not the same. <a href="/wiki/User:Yuchitown" title="User:Yuchitown">Yuchitown</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Yuchitown" title="User talk:Yuchitown">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement#c-Yuchitown-20241110191800-Yuchitown-20241101144900" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:18, 10 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Yuchitown-20241110191800-Yuchitown-20241101144900"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Yuchitown-20241110191800-Yuchitown-20241101144900"></span></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading4"><h4 id="Statement_by_Aquillion" data-mw-thread-id="h-Statement_by_Aquillion-Discussion_concerning_Bohemian_Baltimore-20241101152400"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Statement_by_Aquillion-Discussion_concerning_Bohemian_Baltimore-20241101152400"></span>Statement by Aquillion<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Statement_by_Aquillion-Discussion_concerning_Bohemian_Baltimore-20241101152400"></span></h4><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement&action=edit&section=8" title="Edit section: Statement by Aquillion"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Aquillion-20241101152400-Statement_by_Aquillion"></span>My concern reading this, conductwise, is <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:FAIT" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:FAIT">WP:FAIT</a> - it is clear from eg. the <a class="external text" href="https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2024_October_15#Category:American_people_who_self-identify_as_being_of_Native_American_descent">CFD discussion</a> (where Baltimore participated) that the categories Bohemian Baltimore created are highly contentious. Numerous other discussions and objections since have made that even more clear. Yet they seem to have taken the no-consensus outcome as a green light to go around making hundreds of replacements, effectively trying to ram through the template's usage via FAIT without ever going through the discussion necessary to do so. Obviously that discussion is now necessary, but since they've shown that they're not going to wait on it, my suggestion is that Bohemian Baltimore be barred from implying that any aspect of someone's identity is self-identified, or creating, using, applying, or reapplying any categories of that nature until / unless a clear affirmative consensus is reached to do so or under what circumstances to do so. I don't think that this is just a content dispute - that would be true if this was just on one or two articles; <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:BOLD" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:BOLD">WP:BOLD</a> protects a few individual edits. But making the sorts of systematic changes that Bohemian Baltimore has been doing after editors have objected is trying to force your opinions through by FAIT and is inappropriate. --<a href="/wiki/User:Aquillion" title="User:Aquillion">Aquillion</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Aquillion" title="User talk:Aquillion">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement#c-Aquillion-20241101152400-Statement_by_Aquillion" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:24, 1 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Aquillion-20241101152400-Statement_by_Aquillion"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Aquillion-20241101152400-Statement_by_Aquillion"></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading4"><h4 id="Statement_by_Clayoquot" data-mw-thread-id="h-Statement_by_Clayoquot-Discussion_concerning_Bohemian_Baltimore-20241101161900"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Statement_by_Clayoquot-Discussion_concerning_Bohemian_Baltimore-20241101161900"></span>Statement by Clayoquot<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Statement_by_Clayoquot-Discussion_concerning_Bohemian_Baltimore-20241101161900"></span></h4><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement&action=edit&section=9" title="Edit section: Statement by Clayoquot"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Clayoquot-20241101161900-Statement_by_Clayoquot"></span>Courtesy ping to <a href="/wiki/U" title="U">HouseBlaster</a> who closed the relevant <a class="external text" href="https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2024_October_15#Category:American_people_who_self-identify_as_being_of_Native_American_descent">CFD discussion</a> as "no consensus, therefore keep". Some of the statements being made here could be read as challenging that closure. <a href="/wiki/User:Clayoquot" title="User:Clayoquot">Clayoquot</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Clayoquot" title="User talk:Clayoquot">talk</a> | <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Clayoquot" title="Special:Contributions/Clayoquot">contribs</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement#c-Clayoquot-20241101161900-Statement_by_Clayoquot" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:19, 1 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Clayoquot-20241101161900-Statement_by_Clayoquot"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Clayoquot-20241101161900-Statement_by_Clayoquot"></span> </p> <dl><dd><a href="/wiki/User:Barkeep49" title="User:Barkeep49"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Clayoquot-20241101165400-Clayoquot-20241101161900"></span>Barkeep49</a> I agree that there's a difference between whether or not a category should exist and how particular editors use it. In practice though, since it's rare for RS to say that a given individual self-identifies as X, requiring RS to use a category is almost the same thing as deleting the category. I like your thinking that a community noticeboard discussion on how to use "self-identify" in BLPs could be fruitful. Many participants in the CfD discussion tried to discuss that issue but it probably wasn't the right venue. <a href="/wiki/User:Clayoquot" title="User:Clayoquot">Clayoquot</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Clayoquot" title="User talk:Clayoquot">talk</a> | <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Clayoquot" title="Special:Contributions/Clayoquot">contribs</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement#c-Clayoquot-20241101165400-Clayoquot-20241101161900" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:54, 1 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Clayoquot-20241101165400-Clayoquot-20241101161900"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Clayoquot-20241101165400-Clayoquot-20241101161900"></span></dd></dl> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Clayoquot-20241101204400-Statement_by_Clayoquot"></span>A core issue seems to be whether "self-identifies as..." is contentious material. In the CfD and on this page I see arguments both ways - to some it seems <i>obviously</i> contentious, and others put forth academically-sourced arguments that it's not contentious at all. A community consensus on whether it is or is not contentious would be helpful. <a href="/wiki/User:Clayoquot" title="User:Clayoquot">Clayoquot</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Clayoquot" title="User talk:Clayoquot">talk</a> | <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Clayoquot" title="Special:Contributions/Clayoquot">contribs</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement#c-Clayoquot-20241101204400-Statement_by_Clayoquot" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:44, 1 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Clayoquot-20241101204400-Statement_by_Clayoquot"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Clayoquot-20241101204400-Statement_by_Clayoquot"></span> </p><p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Clayoquot-20241102193400-Statement_by_Clayoquot"></span>I agree that Bohemian Baltimore's wording in the category pages was a BLP violation. I fixed one just now and noticed that nobody else had tried to do it.<a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Category:American_people_who_self-identify_as_being_of_Shoshone_descent&action=history">[16]</a> For the other non-deleted category pages named in this enforcement request, there has also been no effort made to edit the page to remove BLP problems.<a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Category:American_people_who_self-identify_as_being_of_Kiowa_descent&action=history">[17]</a><a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Category:American_people_who_self-identify_as_being_of_Navajo_descent&action=history">[18]</a> (I will go fix them after I publish this comment). Re-editing a page is the first part of community-based dispute resolution and in some cases it has not been done, which suggests that very little community-based dispute resolution has been tried. Things seem to be headed in the direction of "If the community hasn't decided whether something is a BLP violation, file a complaint and the admins at AE will decide." Is that how Wikipedia is supposed to work? <a href="/wiki/User:Clayoquot" title="User:Clayoquot">Clayoquot</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Clayoquot" title="User talk:Clayoquot">talk</a> | <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Clayoquot" title="Special:Contributions/Clayoquot">contribs</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement#c-Clayoquot-20241102193400-Statement_by_Clayoquot" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:34, 2 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Clayoquot-20241102193400-Statement_by_Clayoquot"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Clayoquot-20241102193400-Statement_by_Clayoquot"></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading4"><h4 id="Statement_by_Nil_Einne" data-mw-thread-id="h-Statement_by_Nil_Einne-Discussion_concerning_Bohemian_Baltimore-20241103074000"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Statement_by_Nil_Einne-Discussion_concerning_Bohemian_Baltimore-20241103074000"></span>Statement by Nil Einne<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Statement_by_Nil_Einne-Discussion_concerning_Bohemian_Baltimore-20241103074000"></span></h4><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement&action=edit&section=10" title="Edit section: Statement by Nil Einne"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Nil_Einne-20241103074000-Statement_by_Nil_Einne"></span>In response to Yuchitown, the BLPN discussion established the obvious. You cannot claim someone "self-identifies" as something unless supported by sources. Whether you want to call it pejorative, it doesn't matter much. BLP policy establishes that we shouldn't be adding unsourced content to articles point blank which includes saying someone self-identifies when it isn't what the sources say is. If sources said something like "according to subject A, they are Navajo" or "subject A has informed us they are of Navajo descent" then perhaps we could count that as self identification. But when the source says <a rel="nofollow" class="external autonumber" href="//www.mysanantonio.com/entertainment/stage/article/marc-yaffee-leading-native-american-comedy-wave-789453.php">[19]</a> "<style data-mw-deduplicate="TemplateStyles:r1248585704">@media screen{html.skin-theme-clientpref-night .mw-parser-output .inline-quote-talk{color:#00B785}}@media screen and (prefers-color-scheme:dark){html.skin-theme-clientpref-os .mw-parser-output .inline-quote-talk{color:#00B785}}.mw-parser-output .inline-quote-talk{font-family:Georgia,"DejaVu Serif",serif;color:#008560;quotes:none}.mw-parser-output .inline-quote-talk-italic{font-family:inherit;font-style:italic}.mw-parser-output .inline-quote-talk-marks{quotes:"\"""\""}</style><q class="inline-quote-talk inline-quote-talk-italic">Only when he was contacted by his birth mother decades later (a Fed-Ex package with photos and a letter) did he learn that his biological father was a Mexican Navajo Indian.</q>"; this isn't the same thing. We assume that sources have done what they feel is necessary to verify claims they present, and this source has said "his biological father was a Mexican Navajo Indian" not "his biological father self-identified" or "the person he believes is his biological father". Therefore we take this claim at face value as being true and don't add our own interpretations. From what I've seen, most of the time, there's no reliable secondary sources on whether the subject has tribal citizenship. So commentary on the lack of tribal citizenship isoften <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:OR" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:OR">WP:OR</a> based on primary sources (i.e. looking into records or worse asking the tribe themselves) or based on non RS (e.g. blogs). That said if RSS do mention lack of tribal citizenship we should present this in our article, and can consider how to handle this in categories. But it's unlikely via a self-identification one. <a href="/wiki/User:Nil_Einne" title="User:Nil Einne">Nil Einne</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Nil_Einne" title="User talk:Nil Einne">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement#c-Nil_Einne-20241103074000-Statement_by_Nil_Einne" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">07:40, 3 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Nil_Einne-20241103074000-Statement_by_Nil_Einne"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Nil_Einne-20241103074000-Statement_by_Nil_Einne"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Nil_Einne-20241103080000-Nil_Einne-20241103074000"></span>Another example of Bohemian Baltimore's problematic editing <a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Hilary_Swank&oldid=1221836836">[20]</a>. Removing the indigenous Mexican category is fine, was nothing in our article supporting it. But they not only added a self-identification category but added text to present the claim. The source they used <a rel="nofollow" class="external autonumber" href="//walkoffame.com/hilary-swank/">[21]</a> only says "<link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1248585704"><q class="inline-quote-talk inline-quote-talk-italic">Her maternal grandmother was of Spanish and Shoshone Native American ancestry</q>". Nothing suggests this self-identification. The Walk of Fame probably doesn't have a reputation for fact checking so we IMO shouldn't present the claim of Shoshone ancestry as true. But we have no idea whether this was from Swank, a publicist or whatever else nor what evidence there is. With no source demonstrating this is a wider concern there's no reason to mention this at all. <a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Hilary_Swank&diff=prev&oldid=1255123639">[22]</a> <a href="/wiki/User:Nil_Einne" title="User:Nil Einne">Nil Einne</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Nil_Einne" title="User talk:Nil Einne">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement#c-Nil_Einne-20241103080000-Nil_Einne-20241103074000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">08:00, 3 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Nil_Einne-20241103080000-Nil_Einne-20241103074000"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Nil_Einne-20241103080000-Nil_Einne-20241103074000"></span></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading4"><h4 id="Statement_by_Hemiauchenia" data-mw-thread-id="h-Statement_by_Hemiauchenia-Discussion_concerning_Bohemian_Baltimore-20241107155000"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Statement_by_Hemiauchenia-Discussion_concerning_Bohemian_Baltimore-20241107155000"></span>Statement by Hemiauchenia<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Statement_by_Hemiauchenia-Discussion_concerning_Bohemian_Baltimore-20241107155000"></span></h4><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement&action=edit&section=11" title="Edit section: Statement by Hemiauchenia"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Hemiauchenia-20241107155000-Statement_by_Hemiauchenia"></span>Although this is not related to the conduct at hand, I was concerned by the baseless personal attacks Bohemian Baltimore made in <a href="/wiki/Talk:African-American_Jews#Merge_Proposal" title="Talk:African-American Jews">Talk:African-American_Jews#Merge_Proposal</a> a few weeks ago, where he without foundation accuses editors in the discussion of displaying <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1248585704"><q class="inline-quote-talk">overt anti-Black racism</q> <a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk%3AAfrican-American_Jews&diff=1251846000&oldid=1251332289">[23]</a> for having the audacity of... proposing that an article BB wrote be merged? Making baseless racism accusations is really unacceptable, especially for an editor with as many edits and as long a tenure as BB. <a href="/wiki/User:Hemiauchenia" title="User:Hemiauchenia">Hemiauchenia</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Hemiauchenia" title="User talk:Hemiauchenia">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement#c-Hemiauchenia-20241107155000-Statement_by_Hemiauchenia" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:50, 7 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Hemiauchenia-20241107155000-Statement_by_Hemiauchenia"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Hemiauchenia-20241107155000-Statement_by_Hemiauchenia"></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading4"><h4 id="Statement_by_Pingnova" data-mw-thread-id="h-Statement_by_Pingnova-Discussion_concerning_Bohemian_Baltimore-20241109034400"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Statement_by_Pingnova-Discussion_concerning_Bohemian_Baltimore-20241109034400"></span>Statement by Pingnova<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Statement_by_Pingnova-Discussion_concerning_Bohemian_Baltimore-20241109034400"></span></h4><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement&action=edit&section=12" title="Edit section: Statement by Pingnova"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span></div> <ul><li><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Pingnova-20241109034400-Statement_by_Pingnova"></span>@<a href="/wiki/User:Barkeep49" title="User:Barkeep49">Barkeep49</a> Here are a couple instances when Bohemian Baltimore has been incivil or disruptive when discussing this topic outside mainspace: <a href="/wiki/Talk:Guain%C3%ADa_Ta%C3%ADno_Tribe" title="Talk:Guainía Taíno Tribe">Talk:Guainía_Taíno_Tribe</a> and <a href="/wiki/Talk:History_of_Georgetown_University#White_supremacy" title="Talk:History of Georgetown University">Talk:History_of_Georgetown_University#White_supremacy</a>.</li> <li>Pushing OR: <a href="/wiki/Talk:Bessie_Coleman#Not_Native" title="Talk:Bessie Coleman">Talk:Bessie_Coleman#Not_Native</a> and <a href="/wiki/Talk:Bessie_Coleman#Native_American_claim" title="Talk:Bessie Coleman">Talk:Bessie_Coleman#Native_American_claim</a>. This is only one page, but is a theme with them.</li> <li>They also pushe the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:FRINGE" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:FRINGE">WP:FRINGE</a> theory that Native Americans are not a race or ethnic category: <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2024_October_15#Category:American_people_who_self-identify_as_being_of_Native_American_descent" title="Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2024 October 15">Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2024_October_15#Category:American_people_who_self-identify_as_being_of_Native_American_descent</a>.</li> <li>Bohemian Baltimore seems preoccupied with editing unsupported claims of race fraud into BLPs (and other pages) and has made such edits to hundreds of pages. Their OR frequently includes looking up 100 year old family census records, as with the Bessie Coleman article. These edits are not based on RS. Their editing is extremely disruptive to the topic area. Tracking down and fixing all of them will take some time. The Native American topic area has only a few regular editors. Additionally I think we should take extra caution in this case because they are targeting marginalized people, especially living marginalized people, and are pushing race WP:FRINGE. <a href="/wiki/User:Pingnova" title="User:Pingnova">Pingnova</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Pingnova" title="User talk:Pingnova">talk</a>) 03:44, 9 November 2024 (UTC) <small>Moved comment to own section. Please comment only in this section. <a href="/wiki/User:Seraphimblade" title="User:Seraphimblade">Seraphimblade</a> <small><sup><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Seraphimblade" title="User talk:Seraphimblade">Talk to me</a></sup></small> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement#c-Pingnova-20241109034400-Statement_by_Pingnova" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">05:45, 9 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Pingnova-20241109034400-Statement_by_Pingnova"></span></small><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Pingnova-20241109034400-Statement_by_Pingnova"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span></li></ul> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading4"><h4 id="Statement_by_Andrevan" data-mw-thread-id="h-Statement_by_Andrevan-Discussion_concerning_Bohemian_Baltimore-20241113030500"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Statement_by_Andrevan-Discussion_concerning_Bohemian_Baltimore-20241113030500"></span>Statement by Andrevan<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Statement_by_Andrevan-Discussion_concerning_Bohemian_Baltimore-20241113030500"></span></h4><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement&action=edit&section=13" title="Edit section: Statement by Andrevan"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Andrevan-20241113030500-Statement_by_Andrevan"></span>I'd like to offer <a href="/wiki/Talk:African-American_Jews#Merge_Proposal" title="Talk:African-American Jews">Talk:African-American_Jews#Merge_Proposal</a> from last month, Bohemian Baltimore accused other editors of anti-Black racism<a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:African-American_Jews&diff=prev&oldid=1251846000">[24]</a> because they proposed merging <a href="/wiki/Black_Jews_in_New_York_City" title="Black Jews in New York City">Black Jews in New York City</a> and had extensively edited that article to remove the Black Hebrew Israelite content, based on a discussion at <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Fringe_theories/Noticeboard/Archive_102#Black_Jews_in_New_York_City" title="Wikipedia:Fringe theories/Noticeboard/Archive 102">Fringe noticeboard</a>. Whether or not you disagree with the idea that Black Hebrew Israelites and Black Jews shouldn't be mixed together or whether or not you agree that there is not enough material to have a separate article about Black Jews in New York City versus being part of African-American Jews, I don't think it's really appropriate to accuse editors of racism simply for those editorial content decisions.<b><a href="/wiki/User:Andrevan" class="mw-redirect" title="User:Andrevan">Andre</a></b><span style="border:2px solid #073642;background:rgb(255,156,0);background:linear-gradient(90deg, rgba(255,156,0,1) 0%, rgba(147,0,255,1) 45%, rgba(4,123,134,1) 87%);"><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Andrevan" class="mw-redirect" title="User talk:Andrevan">🚐</a></span> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement#c-Andrevan-20241113030500-Statement_by_Andrevan" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">03:05, 13 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Andrevan-20241113030500-Statement_by_Andrevan"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Andrevan-20241113030500-Statement_by_Andrevan"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Andrevan-20241113030900-Andrevan-20241113030500"></span>Sorry, I see this was already mentioned, I missed it. <b><a href="/wiki/User:Andrevan" class="mw-redirect" title="User:Andrevan">Andre</a></b><span style="border:2px solid #073642;background:rgb(255,156,0);background:linear-gradient(90deg, rgba(255,156,0,1) 0%, rgba(147,0,255,1) 45%, rgba(4,123,134,1) 87%);"><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Andrevan" class="mw-redirect" title="User talk:Andrevan">🚐</a></span> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement#c-Andrevan-20241113030900-Andrevan-20241113030500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">03:09, 13 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Andrevan-20241113030900-Andrevan-20241113030500"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Andrevan-20241113030900-Andrevan-20241113030500"></span></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading4"><h4 id="Statement_by_theleekycauldron" data-mw-thread-id="h-Statement_by_theleekycauldron-Discussion_concerning_Bohemian_Baltimore-20241114081000"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Statement_by_theleekycauldron-Discussion_concerning_Bohemian_Baltimore-20241114081000"></span>Statement by theleekycauldron<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Statement_by_theleekycauldron-Discussion_concerning_Bohemian_Baltimore-20241114081000"></span></h4><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement&action=edit&section=14" title="Edit section: Statement by theleekycauldron"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Theleekycauldron-20241114081000-Statement_by_theleekycauldron"></span>Here's a list of things Bohemian Baltimore has said, all of which are in violation of <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:AGF" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:AGF">WP:AGF</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:NPA" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:NPA">WP:NPA</a>, and/or <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:ASPERSION" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:ASPERSION">WP:ASPERSION</a>: </p> <ul><li><a href="/wiki/Special:Diff/1226194348" title="Special:Diff/1226194348">They questioned CaroleHenson</a> on whether or not they had a "reading comprehension issue".</li> <li>They said everyone in <a href="/wiki/Talk:African-American_Jews#Merge_Proposal" title="Talk:African-American Jews">this thread</a> was "erasing Black Jews" because they wanted to merge <a href="/wiki/Black_Jews_in_New_York_City" title="Black Jews in New York City">Black Jews in New York City</a> to <a href="/wiki/African-American_Jews" title="African-American Jews">African-American Jews</a>. (Which, as Warrenmck tried to explain to them, doesn't erase Black Jews, but <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:IDIDNTHEARTHAT" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:IDIDNTHEARTHAT">they didn't hear that</a>.)</li> <li>They also said in the same thread that Warrenmck was "turn[ing] this into an anti-Black witch hunt" for trying to remove <a href="/wiki/Black_Hebrew_Israelites" title="Black Hebrew Israelites">Black Hebrew Israelites</a> content from <a href="/wiki/Black_Jews_in_New_York_City" title="Black Jews in New York City">Black Jews in New York City</a>.</li> <li><a href="/wiki/Special:Diff/1251171914" title="Special:Diff/1251171914">They said in an edit summary</a> that Warrenmck's removal of content about a Black Orthodox Jew in the midst of the same removal was "smearing" before they had a chance to say, as they did an hour later, that it was a mistake. Never apologized or retracted it. (I believe <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Biographies_of_living_persons/Noticeboard/Archive360#c-Bohemian_Baltimore-20240530062100-Nil_Einne-20240530001700" title="Wikipedia:Biographies of living persons/Noticeboard/Archive360">it was them who said</a> that <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1248585704"><q class="inline-quote-talk">claiming that editors are disingenuous in intention is tantamount to calling them liars.</q>)</li> <li>They referred to this AE filing as a <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1248585704"><q class="inline-quote-talk">transparent attempt to harass me and censor my contributions to Wikipedia</q>, which I see no evidence of.</li> <li>They said the thread filer is <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1248585704"><q class="inline-quote-talk">deploying strong-arm tactics to permanently suppress the contributions of Native and allied editors</q>, which they did not provide evidence for.</li> <li>They implied in this thread that Raladic wants them to <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1248585704"><q class="inline-quote-talk">apologize for being queer</q>, when they haven't come close to saying any such thing.</li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2024_April_7#c-Bohemian_Baltimore-20240410103300-Category:LGBT_asexual_people" title="Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2024 April 7">They insisted</a> that merging <a href="/w/index.php?title=Category:LGBT_asexual_women&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category:LGBT asexual women (page does not exist)">Category:LGBT asexual women</a> to <a href="/wiki/Category:Asexual_women" title="Category:Asexual women">Category:Asexual women</a> was <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1248585704"><q class="inline-quote-talk">erasure of asexual and intersex people who are gay, lesbian, bisexual, or transgender</q> and not a recognition that asexual women are broadly accepted as part of the <a href="/wiki/LGBT_community" class="mw-redirect" title="LGBT community">LGBT community</a>.</li></ul> <p><a href="/wiki/User:Theleekycauldron" title="User:Theleekycauldron">theleekycauldron</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Theleekycauldron" title="User talk:Theleekycauldron">talk</a> • she/her) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement#c-Theleekycauldron-20241114081000-Statement_by_theleekycauldron" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">08:10, 14 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Theleekycauldron-20241114081000-Statement_by_theleekycauldron"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Theleekycauldron-20241114081000-Statement_by_theleekycauldron"></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading4"><h4 id="Statement_by_(username)" data-mw-thread-id="h-Statement_by_(username)-Discussion_concerning_Bohemian_Baltimore"><span id="Statement_by_.28username.29"></span><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Statement_by_(username)-Discussion_concerning_Bohemian_Baltimore"></span>Statement by (username)<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Statement_by_(username)-Discussion_concerning_Bohemian_Baltimore"></span></h4><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement&action=edit&section=15" title="Edit section: Statement by (username)"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span></div> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading3"><h3 id="Result_concerning_Bohemian_Baltimore" data-mw-thread-id="h-Result_concerning_Bohemian_Baltimore-Bohemian_Baltimore-20241030212700"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Result_concerning_Bohemian_Baltimore-Bohemian_Baltimore-20241030212700"></span>Result concerning Bohemian Baltimore<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Result_concerning_Bohemian_Baltimore-Bohemian_Baltimore-20241030212700"></span></h3><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement&action=edit&section=16" title="Edit section: Result concerning Bohemian Baltimore"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span></div> <dl><dd><i><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-ScottishFinnishRadish-20241030212700-Result_concerning_Bohemian_Baltimore"></span>This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.</i></dd></dl> <ul><li>I'm interested in hearing <a href="/wiki/User:Bohemian_Baltimore" title="User:Bohemian Baltimore">Bohemian Baltimore</a>'s response while I go through the background. <a href="/wiki/User:ScottishFinnishRadish" title="User:ScottishFinnishRadish">ScottishFinnishRadish</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:ScottishFinnishRadish" title="User talk:ScottishFinnishRadish">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement#c-ScottishFinnishRadish-20241030212700-Result_concerning_Bohemian_Baltimore" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:27, 30 October 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-ScottishFinnishRadish-20241030212700-Result_concerning_Bohemian_Baltimore"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-ScottishFinnishRadish-20241030212700-Result_concerning_Bohemian_Baltimore"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-ScottishFinnishRadish-20241031113400-ScottishFinnishRadish-20241030212700"></span><link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1248585704"><q class="inline-quote-talk">Each of these individuals was either adopted or self-identifies as Taíno. None of these people have tribal citizenship; the source of their Indigenous identity is very literally through their own self-identification rather than through any tribal citizenship.</q> None of this is covered in the articles, and appears to be <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:OR" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:OR">WP:OR</a>. <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:CATDEFINE" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:CATDEFINE">WP:CATDEFINE</a> says <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1248585704"><q class="inline-quote-talk">A defining characteristic is one that reliable sources commonly and consistently refer to in describing the topic, such as the nationality of a person or the geographic location of a place.</q> These edits clearly fail that bar for categorization. I'm thinking a topic ban from the identification and citizenship of indigenous people. <a href="/wiki/User:ScottishFinnishRadish" title="User:ScottishFinnishRadish">ScottishFinnishRadish</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:ScottishFinnishRadish" title="User talk:ScottishFinnishRadish">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement#c-ScottishFinnishRadish-20241031113400-ScottishFinnishRadish-20241030212700" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">11:34, 31 October 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-ScottishFinnishRadish-20241031113400-ScottishFinnishRadish-20241030212700"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-ScottishFinnishRadish-20241031113400-ScottishFinnishRadish-20241030212700"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-ScottishFinnishRadish-20241101113200-ScottishFinnishRadish-20241031113400"></span>The diffs above are not about tribal citizenship, but about descent. What you say above, <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1248585704"><q class="inline-quote-talk">some Puerto Ricans have begun to self-identify as Taíno based on their DNA heritage</q>, is about being of Taino descent. Everything else you've said about this falls firmly under <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:OR" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:OR">WP:OR</a> as it applies to specific living people. <a href="/wiki/User:ScottishFinnishRadish" title="User:ScottishFinnishRadish">ScottishFinnishRadish</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:ScottishFinnishRadish" title="User talk:ScottishFinnishRadish">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement#c-ScottishFinnishRadish-20241101113200-ScottishFinnishRadish-20241031113400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">11:32, 1 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-ScottishFinnishRadish-20241101113200-ScottishFinnishRadish-20241031113400"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-ScottishFinnishRadish-20241101113200-ScottishFinnishRadish-20241031113400"></span></dd></dl></dd> <dd><a href="/wiki/User:Clayoquot" title="User:Clayoquot"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-ScottishFinnishRadish-20241101210100-ScottishFinnishRadish-20241030212700"></span>Clayoquot</a>, if there is this much disagreement about it then it is fairly plainly contentious. <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:BLP" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:BLP">WP:BLP</a> says <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1248585704"><q class="inline-quote-talk">Contentious material about living persons (or, in some cases, recently deceased) that is unsourced or poorly sourced—whether the material is negative, positive, neutral, or just questionable—must be removed immediately and without waiting for discussion. Users who persistently or egregiously violate this policy may be blocked from editing.</q> Even if the self-identified label is neutral or even positive there is clearly contention about its use. In this situation no sources have been provided using the label, so it is unsourced, and arguments made here about its inclusion amount to <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:OR" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:OR">WP:OR</a>. Content policies, with OR specifically called out, must be <i>strictly</i> followed when dealing with BLPs.</dd> <dd>I agree that there should be a broad community discussion about this, but as it stands applying the label without consensus and sourcing is a violation of our BLP policy. These violations have been persistent, and I would say after the amount of discussion on the topic clearly demonstrating a lack of consensus for inclusion, egregious. <a href="/wiki/User:ScottishFinnishRadish" title="User:ScottishFinnishRadish">ScottishFinnishRadish</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:ScottishFinnishRadish" title="User talk:ScottishFinnishRadish">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement#c-ScottishFinnishRadish-20241101210100-ScottishFinnishRadish-20241030212700" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:01, 1 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-ScottishFinnishRadish-20241101210100-ScottishFinnishRadish-20241030212700"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-ScottishFinnishRadish-20241101210100-ScottishFinnishRadish-20241030212700"></span></dd></dl></li></ul> <ul><li><span class="template-ping"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Newyorkbrad-20241031151400-Result_concerning_Bohemian_Baltimore"></span>@<a href="/wiki/User:Bohemian_Baltimore" title="User:Bohemian Baltimore">Bohemian Baltimore</a>:</span> Before I evaluate this, can you please clarify what you mean by "tribal citizenship" as a member of the Taino people? I am certainly not an expert, but my understanding is that the Taino people are not a legally organized tribe, and that the ongoing efforts to create a registry of Taino citizens are unofficial and are themselves based on self-identification and voluntary registration. What criteria are you using to separate people whom you feel belong in <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1248585704"><q class="inline-quote-talk">Category:Puerto Rican people who self-identify as being of Taíno descent</q> as opposed to <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1248585704"><q class="inline-quote-talk">Category:Puerto Rican people of Taíno descent</q>? <a href="/wiki/User:Newyorkbrad" title="User:Newyorkbrad">Newyorkbrad</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Newyorkbrad" title="User talk:Newyorkbrad">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement#c-Newyorkbrad-20241031151400-Result_concerning_Bohemian_Baltimore" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:14, 31 October 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Newyorkbrad-20241031151400-Result_concerning_Bohemian_Baltimore"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Newyorkbrad-20241031151400-Result_concerning_Bohemian_Baltimore"></span></li> <li><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Barkeep49-20241101150800-Result_concerning_Bohemian_Baltimore"></span>The idea, as Valereee writes, that we can only identify a characteristic of a person if it is government recognized regardless of what RS says (meaning, for instance, we could possibly have to label someone born in Ontario as "self-identified male/female/non-binary" because their birth certificates do not require any gender/sex field<a rel="nofollow" class="external autonumber" href="https://www.ontario.ca/page/register-birth-new-baby#:~:text=Anyone%20whose%20birth%20was%20registered,field%20on%20your%20birth%20certificates.">[25]</a>) strikes me as an extreme position. But I feel we're in content decision territory here rather than BLP contentious topic violations and so this would either need to go to a community noticeboard - where there are more options for an uneasy mixing of the two - or have a content decision on this that Bohemian Baltimore is then violating in order for us to sanction them here. <a href="/wiki/User:Barkeep49" title="User:Barkeep49">Barkeep49</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Barkeep49" title="User talk:Barkeep49">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement#c-Barkeep49-20241101150800-Result_concerning_Bohemian_Baltimore" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:08, 1 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Barkeep49-20241101150800-Result_concerning_Bohemian_Baltimore"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Barkeep49-20241101150800-Result_concerning_Bohemian_Baltimore"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-ScottishFinnishRadish-20241101153700-Barkeep49-20241101150800"></span>Although there is not firmly established consensus, with BLP that defaults to exclude contentious labeling. Bohemian Baltimore is obviously aware of the contentious nature of these edits, and continues to make them without consensus or sourcing. To me that falls far enough on the wrong side of <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:BLP" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:BLP">WP:BLP</a> that a narrow topic ban on the identification of indigenous peoples, even if limited to such a time as consensus supports their position, is called for. Trying to force through contentious labels on BLPs without consensus is disruptive. <a href="/wiki/User:ScottishFinnishRadish" title="User:ScottishFinnishRadish">ScottishFinnishRadish</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:ScottishFinnishRadish" title="User talk:ScottishFinnishRadish">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement#c-ScottishFinnishRadish-20241101153700-Barkeep49-20241101150800" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:37, 1 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-ScottishFinnishRadish-20241101153700-Barkeep49-20241101150800"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-ScottishFinnishRadish-20241101153700-Barkeep49-20241101150800"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Barkeep49-20241101161000-ScottishFinnishRadish-20241101153700"></span>That's a really good point and you've convinced me that we can address the issue here. Per the other feedback, I'm definitely not ready to topic ban them from indigenous people and I wonder if even your narrow topic ban could impact positive work mentioned by some others above. So what if instead we issue a consensus required to change the identification of indigenous people restriction? Obviously we normally apply CR to articles not editors, but in this case I think them needing to get consensus before changing would address the issue at hand while still allowing them to do the other work. And per your comment - should there be a topic wide consensus formed (through an appropriate RfC held at a place like a Village pump) that these kinds of changes are appropriate the restriction effectively goes away. <a href="/wiki/User:Barkeep49" title="User:Barkeep49">Barkeep49</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Barkeep49" title="User talk:Barkeep49">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement#c-Barkeep49-20241101161000-ScottishFinnishRadish-20241101153700" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:10, 1 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Barkeep49-20241101161000-ScottishFinnishRadish-20241101153700"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Barkeep49-20241101161000-ScottishFinnishRadish-20241101153700"></span></dd></dl></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Barkeep49-20241101162200-Barkeep49-20241101150800"></span>@<a href="/wiki/User:Clayoquot" title="User:Clayoquot">Clayoquot</a> there's a difference between whether or not a category should exist and how particular editors use it. The fact that there is not even consensus about its existence - I read that CfD at the time - does actually say to me that a higher degree of care is needed by those who do use it. <a href="/wiki/User:Barkeep49" title="User:Barkeep49">Barkeep49</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Barkeep49" title="User talk:Barkeep49">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement#c-Barkeep49-20241101162200-Barkeep49-20241101150800" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:22, 1 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Barkeep49-20241101162200-Barkeep49-20241101150800"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Barkeep49-20241101162200-Barkeep49-20241101150800"></span></dd></dl></li> <li><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Vanamonde93-20241101160500-Result_concerning_Bohemian_Baltimore"></span>Bohemian Baltimore needs to recognize that whatever their beliefs may be about the logical categorization of people of Taino heritage vs other indigenous groups, Wikipedia cannot apply labels unsupported by reliable sources. Absent such recognition I think the TBAN SFR proposes is necessary. <a href="/wiki/User:Vanamonde93" title="User:Vanamonde93">Vanamonde93</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Vanamonde93" title="User talk:Vanamonde93">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement#c-Vanamonde93-20241101160500-Result_concerning_Bohemian_Baltimore" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:05, 1 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Vanamonde93-20241101160500-Result_concerning_Bohemian_Baltimore"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Vanamonde93-20241101160500-Result_concerning_Bohemian_Baltimore"></span> <dl><dd><a href="/wiki/User:Bohemian_Baltimore" title="User:Bohemian Baltimore"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Vanamonde93-20241102153500-Vanamonde93-20241101160500"></span>Bohemian Baltimore</a> If an editor were engaging in homophobic behavior toward you, they would be sanctioned for it. For that very reason, it's a serious accusation that needs to be backed up by evidence. I'm not seeing anything in <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2024_April_7#Category:LGBT_asexual_people" title="Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2024 April 7">this discussion</a> that constitutes a homophobic attack. Please provide evidence, or retract that claim. <a href="/wiki/User:Vanamonde93" title="User:Vanamonde93">Vanamonde93</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Vanamonde93" title="User talk:Vanamonde93">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement#c-Vanamonde93-20241102153500-Vanamonde93-20241101160500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:35, 2 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Vanamonde93-20241102153500-Vanamonde93-20241101160500"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Vanamonde93-20241102153500-Vanamonde93-20241101160500"></span></dd></dl></li> <li><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Seraphimblade-20241104134000-Result_concerning_Bohemian_Baltimore"></span>I think it should be clear just from reading the discussions over this matter that this is clearly a contentious thing to say about someone. So, we don't need to get into great intricacy of what a rather obscure part of the MOS says, or anything like that. <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:BLP" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:BLP">WP:BLP</a> is very clear on the point: <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1248585704"><q class="inline-quote-talk">Contentious material about living persons (or, in some cases, recently deceased) that is unsourced or poorly sourced—whether the material is negative, positive, neutral, or just questionable—must be removed immediately and without waiting for discussion.</q> Saying "self-identifies" is in this case clearly contentious. If the sources don't unambiguously support that, it must be removed immediately and may not be restored without clear and unambiguous consensus, and anyone who does unilaterally restore it is engaged in sanctionable misconduct. I would also reiterate that there is a difference between the question of a category's existence, and its appropriateness of use. <a href="/wiki/Category:Drug_dealers" title="Category:Drug dealers">Category:Drug dealers</a> exists, and should, but its <i>use</i> on a given article could still most certainly be a violation of BLP unless reliable sources unequivocally back up that it belongs there. Similarly, it seems the issue is not the <i>existence</i> of these categories, but their use in a lot of particular instances where the sources do not seem to back that. As to the instant case, I have no objection to a topic ban for Bohemian Baltimore since they obviously have no plans to stop doing this without such a sanction, but I'm afraid that in itself, that will not solve the BLP issues here, which seem by now to have become quite widespread. I think we might need to consider wider-scale action to address that, but I'm not yet sure what that looks like. I see above that a "consensus required" provision was mentioned, and there is in principle no reason that a "consensus required" sanction could not be added to a category, so perhaps a first step could be a "consensus required" restriction to add (or re-add) these categories to any article? If we did that, topic bans on individuals may not be necessary, provided that they will in fact abide by that restriction. <a href="/wiki/User:Seraphimblade" title="User:Seraphimblade">Seraphimblade</a> <small><sup><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Seraphimblade" title="User talk:Seraphimblade">Talk to me</a></sup></small> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement#c-Seraphimblade-20241104134000-Result_concerning_Bohemian_Baltimore" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">13:40, 4 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Seraphimblade-20241104134000-Result_concerning_Bohemian_Baltimore"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Seraphimblade-20241104134000-Result_concerning_Bohemian_Baltimore"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Vanamonde93-20241105050500-Seraphimblade-20241104134000"></span>I think I could support such a sanction, but surely the first step is simply enforcing <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:NOR" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:NOR">WP:NOR</a>; categories may not be used without supporting sources that are in the article, and doing so is already grounds for sanction. <a href="/wiki/User:Vanamonde93" title="User:Vanamonde93">Vanamonde93</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Vanamonde93" title="User talk:Vanamonde93">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement#c-Vanamonde93-20241105050500-Seraphimblade-20241104134000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">05:05, 5 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Vanamonde93-20241105050500-Seraphimblade-20241104134000"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Vanamonde93-20241105050500-Seraphimblade-20241104134000"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-ScottishFinnishRadish-20241105121700-Vanamonde93-20241105050500"></span>I'm pretty sure we can make that type of sanction at AE with a rough consensus, but I'm with Vanamonde that we should start by enforcing policy around BLPs normally. I would hope that if editors see that we're taking action on this they'll be less likely to engage in the same type of editing. <a href="/wiki/User:ScottishFinnishRadish" title="User:ScottishFinnishRadish">ScottishFinnishRadish</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:ScottishFinnishRadish" title="User talk:ScottishFinnishRadish">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement#c-ScottishFinnishRadish-20241105121700-Vanamonde93-20241105050500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">12:17, 5 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-ScottishFinnishRadish-20241105121700-Vanamonde93-20241105050500"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-ScottishFinnishRadish-20241105121700-Vanamonde93-20241105050500"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Seraphimblade-20241105202800-ScottishFinnishRadish-20241105121700"></span>Well, let's give that a try first then. Hopefully it will suffice, if not we can always look at it again later. <a href="/wiki/User:Seraphimblade" title="User:Seraphimblade">Seraphimblade</a> <small><sup><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Seraphimblade" title="User talk:Seraphimblade">Talk to me</a></sup></small> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement#c-Seraphimblade-20241105202800-ScottishFinnishRadish-20241105121700" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:28, 5 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Seraphimblade-20241105202800-ScottishFinnishRadish-20241105121700"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Seraphimblade-20241105202800-ScottishFinnishRadish-20241105121700"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Barkeep49-20241105203000-Seraphimblade-20241105202800"></span>What is the "this" (that) which e're giving a first try? <a href="/wiki/User:Barkeep49" title="User:Barkeep49">Barkeep49</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Barkeep49" title="User talk:Barkeep49">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement#c-Barkeep49-20241105203000-Seraphimblade-20241105202800" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:30, 5 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Barkeep49-20241105203000-Seraphimblade-20241105202800"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Barkeep49-20241105203000-Seraphimblade-20241105202800"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-ScottishFinnishRadish-20241105213200-Barkeep49-20241105203000"></span><link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1248585704"><q class="inline-quote-talk">A topic ban from the identification and citizenship of indigenous people</q> is what I proposed above. <a href="/wiki/User:ScottishFinnishRadish" title="User:ScottishFinnishRadish">ScottishFinnishRadish</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:ScottishFinnishRadish" title="User talk:ScottishFinnishRadish">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement#c-ScottishFinnishRadish-20241105213200-Barkeep49-20241105203000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:32, 5 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-ScottishFinnishRadish-20241105213200-Barkeep49-20241105203000"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-ScottishFinnishRadish-20241105213200-Barkeep49-20241105203000"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Barkeep49-20241105220400-ScottishFinnishRadish-20241105213200"></span>Do we have evidence of disruption with discussion? Because if not I'd still prefer we allow them that. <a href="/wiki/User:Barkeep49" title="User:Barkeep49">Barkeep49</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Barkeep49" title="User talk:Barkeep49">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement#c-Barkeep49-20241105220400-ScottishFinnishRadish-20241105213200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:04, 5 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Barkeep49-20241105220400-ScottishFinnishRadish-20241105213200"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Barkeep49-20241105220400-ScottishFinnishRadish-20241105213200"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-ScottishFinnishRadish-20241105225300-Barkeep49-20241105220400"></span>I don't think we've been given evidence of that. I'm fine with a article space topic ban, unless evidence of disruption in discussions is provided. <a href="/wiki/User:ScottishFinnishRadish" title="User:ScottishFinnishRadish">ScottishFinnishRadish</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:ScottishFinnishRadish" title="User talk:ScottishFinnishRadish">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement#c-ScottishFinnishRadish-20241105225300-Barkeep49-20241105220400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:53, 5 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-ScottishFinnishRadish-20241105225300-Barkeep49-20241105220400"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-ScottishFinnishRadish-20241105225300-Barkeep49-20241105220400"></span></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-ScottishFinnishRadish-20241107160000-Barkeep49-20241105220400"></span>The link to the discussion provided by <a href="/wiki/User:Hemiauchenia" title="User:Hemiauchenia">Hemiauchenia</a> does show poor behavior, and there was a <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:African-American_Jews&diff=prev&oldid=1251847331">second</a> inappropriate comment. This does (somewhat) fall under the BLP CTOP, but is different than the issue we're discussing here. Combined with the aspersions above of homophobic attacks, I think along with the topic ban we should issue a warning about aspersions and accusations. <a href="/wiki/User:ScottishFinnishRadish" title="User:ScottishFinnishRadish">ScottishFinnishRadish</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:ScottishFinnishRadish" title="User talk:ScottishFinnishRadish">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement#c-ScottishFinnishRadish-20241107160000-Barkeep49-20241105220400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:00, 7 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-ScottishFinnishRadish-20241107160000-Barkeep49-20241105220400"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-ScottishFinnishRadish-20241107160000-Barkeep49-20241105220400"></span> <dl><dd><a href="/wiki/User:Barkeep49" title="User:Barkeep49"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Seraphimblade-20241107163000-ScottishFinnishRadish-20241107160000"></span>Barkeep49</a>, would you see the above as <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1248585704"><q class="inline-quote-talk">evidence of disruption with discussion</q>? I know I certainly do, so I would be more in favor of an overall topic ban, discussion included, than an article-only one. Throwing around baseless accusations like that is quite disruptive to a discussion, and between here and the above article merge discussion, it seems to indicate that's a pattern of behavior, not a one-time mistake. <a href="/wiki/User:Seraphimblade" title="User:Seraphimblade">Seraphimblade</a> <small><sup><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Seraphimblade" title="User talk:Seraphimblade">Talk to me</a></sup></small> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement#c-Seraphimblade-20241107163000-ScottishFinnishRadish-20241107160000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:30, 7 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Seraphimblade-20241107163000-ScottishFinnishRadish-20241107160000"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Seraphimblade-20241107163000-ScottishFinnishRadish-20241107160000"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Barkeep49-20241107163900-Seraphimblade-20241107163000"></span>Yes. That is evidence of disruption during discussions for me. It also is outside of the scope of the proposed topic ban. My bigger thinking is that I think Bohemian Baltimore is doing work the encyclopedia benefits from and so if there are ways we can have them focus on that work I'd like to try it. <a href="/wiki/User:Barkeep49" title="User:Barkeep49">Barkeep49</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Barkeep49" title="User talk:Barkeep49">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement#c-Barkeep49-20241107163900-Seraphimblade-20241107163000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:39, 7 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Barkeep49-20241107163900-Seraphimblade-20241107163000"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Barkeep49-20241107163900-Seraphimblade-20241107163000"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></li> <li><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Newyorkbrad-20241108143100-Result_concerning_Bohemian_Baltimore"></span>I do not think a topic-ban is needed at this time, unless there is evidence of additional problems after this discussion. I perceive the challenged edits as based on a good-faith understanding of the underlying issue, and as being quite defensible as within policy (since any living person's identification as of Taino descent may have a subjective component). Of course there are other arguments against changing the category (because the "self-identified" wording has an unjustified accusatory overtone), and consensus seems to be against doing so, but is there evidence that BB is now disregarding that consensus? If not, a reminder to be circumspect and to maintain civility on these sensitive and difficult topics hopefully should, in my view, be sufficient at this time. <a href="/wiki/User:Newyorkbrad" title="User:Newyorkbrad">Newyorkbrad</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Newyorkbrad" title="User talk:Newyorkbrad">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement#c-Newyorkbrad-20241108143100-Result_concerning_Bohemian_Baltimore" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">14:31, 8 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Newyorkbrad-20241108143100-Result_concerning_Bohemian_Baltimore"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Newyorkbrad-20241108143100-Result_concerning_Bohemian_Baltimore"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Barkeep49-20241110172500-Newyorkbrad-20241108143100"></span>I am surprised you find his answer to your Taino question sufficient @<a href="/wiki/User:Newyorkbrad" title="User:Newyorkbrad">Newyorkbrad</a> as that answer helped push me towards sanction. Ialso find the evidence presented by Nil Einne, Pingnova, and Valeree of problems sufficient for a topic ban. <a href="/wiki/User:Barkeep49" title="User:Barkeep49">Barkeep49</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Barkeep49" title="User talk:Barkeep49">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement#c-Barkeep49-20241110172500-Newyorkbrad-20241108143100" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:25, 10 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Barkeep49-20241110172500-Newyorkbrad-20241108143100"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Barkeep49-20241110172500-Newyorkbrad-20241108143100"></span> <dl><dd><span class="template-ping"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Newyorkbrad-20241111094600-Barkeep49-20241110172500"></span>@<a href="/wiki/User:Barkeep49" title="User:Barkeep49">Barkeep49</a>:</span> The consensus here seems to favor your view. <a href="/wiki/User:Newyorkbrad" title="User:Newyorkbrad">Newyorkbrad</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Newyorkbrad" title="User talk:Newyorkbrad">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement#c-Newyorkbrad-20241111094600-Barkeep49-20241110172500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">09:46, 11 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Newyorkbrad-20241111094600-Barkeep49-20241110172500"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Newyorkbrad-20241111094600-Barkeep49-20241110172500"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></li> <li><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Theleekycauldron-20241110183100-Result_concerning_Bohemian_Baltimore"></span>Bohemian Baltimore's behavior is incredibly aggressive and disruptive. Reading through the diffs in this thread and the thread itself, I can't imagine how people are supposed to collaborate with them when they malign their detractors as idiots, bigots, and bad-faith actors without anything approaching evidence. (Look at Hemiauchenia's thread, the filer diffs, Raladic's thread, and literally this page.) I think the best solution here would be a <b>topic ban from self-identification with marginalized groups, broadly construed</b>, but since that's not a CTOP, i <b>support topic ban per ScottishFinnishRadish</b>. <a href="/wiki/User:Theleekycauldron" title="User:Theleekycauldron">theleekycauldron</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Theleekycauldron" title="User talk:Theleekycauldron">talk</a> • she/her) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement#c-Theleekycauldron-20241110183100-Result_concerning_Bohemian_Baltimore" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:31, 10 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Theleekycauldron-20241110183100-Result_concerning_Bohemian_Baltimore"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Theleekycauldron-20241110183100-Result_concerning_Bohemian_Baltimore"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Barkeep49-20241110185900-Theleekycauldron-20241110183100"></span>I think the self-identification falls under BLP which is a CT and thus something we could do. <a href="/wiki/User:Barkeep49" title="User:Barkeep49">Barkeep49</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Barkeep49" title="User talk:Barkeep49">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement#c-Barkeep49-20241110185900-Theleekycauldron-20241110183100" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:59, 10 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Barkeep49-20241110185900-Theleekycauldron-20241110183100"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Barkeep49-20241110185900-Theleekycauldron-20241110183100"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Theleekycauldron-20241110190900-Barkeep49-20241110185900"></span>a BLP self-identification with marginalized groups TBAN works for me :) <a href="/wiki/User:Theleekycauldron" title="User:Theleekycauldron">theleekycauldron</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Theleekycauldron" title="User talk:Theleekycauldron">talk</a> • she/her) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement#c-Theleekycauldron-20241110190900-Barkeep49-20241110185900" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:09, 10 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Theleekycauldron-20241110190900-Barkeep49-20241110185900"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Theleekycauldron-20241110190900-Barkeep49-20241110185900"></span></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Theleekycauldron-20241110191200-Barkeep49-20241110185900"></span>oh, <span typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/Template:Self-trout" title="Template:Self-trout"><img alt="trout" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/16/Rainbow_trout_transparent.png/20px-Rainbow_trout_transparent.png" decoding="async" width="20" height="20" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/16/Rainbow_trout_transparent.png/30px-Rainbow_trout_transparent.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/16/Rainbow_trout_transparent.png/40px-Rainbow_trout_transparent.png 2x" data-file-width="327" data-file-height="327"/></a></span> <b>Self-trout</b>, I assumed SFR was proposing a topic ban from indigenous groups (which, as it turns out, isn't a CTOP either!), but they've actually proposed one around identification of BLPs with indigenous groups. I would extend it beyond indigenous groups, since they have the same behavioral problems in the Jewish and LGBTQ topic areas, but yes, support that suggestion too. <a href="/wiki/User:Theleekycauldron" title="User:Theleekycauldron">theleekycauldron</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Theleekycauldron" title="User talk:Theleekycauldron">talk</a> • she/her) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement#c-Theleekycauldron-20241110191200-Barkeep49-20241110185900" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:12, 10 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Theleekycauldron-20241110191200-Barkeep49-20241110185900"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Theleekycauldron-20241110191200-Barkeep49-20241110185900"></span> <dl><dd><span class="template-ping"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Theleekycauldron-20241114080800-Theleekycauldron-20241110191200"></span>@<a href="/wiki/User:Bohemian_Baltimore" title="User:Bohemian Baltimore">Bohemian Baltimore</a>:</span> I never said you used the word "idiot", just like I never said you used the words "bad-faith actor". I am going to list what you <em>did</em> say in <a href="#Statement_by_theleekycauldron">a separate statement above</a>, because the list is frankly too long to put here. Would recommend that other admins read it.</dd> <dd>But, no, you're not just "discussing the problem of racism", and no one is saying that you should be "quiet and hush about the racial bias on Wikipedia", and I'm not pearl-clutching ("feigning an overreaction with a typically bad-faith invocation of WP:CIVIL"). You have a pattern of accusing people of intentionally suppressing you and/or marginalized groups simply because they hold views that aren't yours, and that's not acceptable behavior. The reason I think your topic ban shouldn't be limited to Indigenous people is that your accusations and aspersions aren't, either. <a href="/wiki/User:Theleekycauldron" title="User:Theleekycauldron">theleekycauldron</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Theleekycauldron" title="User talk:Theleekycauldron">talk</a> • she/her) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement#c-Theleekycauldron-20241114080800-Theleekycauldron-20241110191200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">08:08, 14 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Theleekycauldron-20241114080800-Theleekycauldron-20241110191200"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Theleekycauldron-20241114080800-Theleekycauldron-20241110191200"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></li> <li><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Vanamonde93-20241111005000-Result_concerning_Bohemian_Baltimore"></span>Though it borders on blasphemy to disagree with <a href="/wiki/User:Newyorkbrad" title="User:Newyorkbrad">Newyorkbrad</a> about arbitration matters, I do disagree. Very basically BB is not showing a willingness to stick to what sources say. That's a problem anywhere, and particularly a problem in this fraught topic. I still support a TBAN with the scope suggested above. I recognize that there have been problems with categories on biographies of queer folk, but I'm leery of a TBAN there simply because it seems to me a recipe for wikilawyering, given that the dispute they were involved in was with respect to the boundaries of "LGBT". <a href="/wiki/User:Vanamonde93" title="User:Vanamonde93">Vanamonde93</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Vanamonde93" title="User talk:Vanamonde93">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement#c-Vanamonde93-20241111005000-Result_concerning_Bohemian_Baltimore" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:50, 11 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Vanamonde93-20241111005000-Result_concerning_Bohemian_Baltimore"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Vanamonde93-20241111005000-Result_concerning_Bohemian_Baltimore"></span> <dl><dd><span class="template-ping"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Newyorkbrad-20241111094600-Vanamonde93-20241111005000"></span>@<a href="/wiki/User:Vanamonde93" title="User:Vanamonde93">Vanamonde93</a>:</span> Please don't worry about disagreeing with me. I probably cast more solo dissenting votes while I was on the Committee than everyone else put together, so why should it stop now? Obviously there is a consensus here that agrees with you. <a href="/wiki/User:Newyorkbrad" title="User:Newyorkbrad">Newyorkbrad</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Newyorkbrad" title="User talk:Newyorkbrad">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement#c-Newyorkbrad-20241111094600-Vanamonde93-20241111005000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">09:46, 11 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Newyorkbrad-20241111094600-Vanamonde93-20241111005000"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Newyorkbrad-20241111094600-Vanamonde93-20241111005000"></span></dd></dl></li> <li><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-ScottishFinnishRadish-20241111132400-Result_concerning_Bohemian_Baltimore"></span>We just need a bit of clarification of where support lies, and we can wrap this up. We have on the table currently: <ol><li>A topic ban on the identification and citizenship of indigenous people, broadly construed</li> <li>A topic ban on the identification and citizenship of indigenous people, mainspace only, broadly construed</li> <li>A topic ban on self-identification of marginalized groups, broadly construed</li> <li>A warning for casting aspersions and accusations</li></ol></li> <li>I think <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1248585704"><q class="inline-quote-talk">marginalized groups</q> is too blurry to make an effective topic ban. I believe there has been enough demonstration of issues with their discussions to go for the full topic ban on identification and citizenship of indigenous people without the allowance for talk discussion, but I'm not so opposed to allowing discussion that I would hold things up over it, although it looks like the rough consensus here covers talk pages as well. At the risk of adding another thing to consider this late into the process there's a <b>topic ban on the self-identification or citizenship of <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:BLP" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:BLP">living or recently deceased people</a></b> <span style="font-size:85%;">(we'll call this 5)</span>, which covers marginalized groups without any blurry edges. If we think there is enough concern to be talking about specific tbans covering marginalized groups, LGBT people, and Jewish people then I think self-identification and citizenship of BLPs is tight enough to allow their editing to continue, but broad enough to stop disruption. Call me in support of 1, 4, and 5. <a href="/wiki/User:ScottishFinnishRadish" title="User:ScottishFinnishRadish">ScottishFinnishRadish</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:ScottishFinnishRadish" title="User talk:ScottishFinnishRadish">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement#c-ScottishFinnishRadish-20241111132400-Result_concerning_Bohemian_Baltimore" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">13:24, 11 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-ScottishFinnishRadish-20241111132400-Result_concerning_Bohemian_Baltimore"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-ScottishFinnishRadish-20241111132400-Result_concerning_Bohemian_Baltimore"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Barkeep49-20241111165700-ScottishFinnishRadish-20241111132400"></span>I support the bolded topic ban proposal (which I see as inclusive of discussion). <a href="/wiki/User:Barkeep49" title="User:Barkeep49">Barkeep49</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Barkeep49" title="User talk:Barkeep49">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement#c-Barkeep49-20241111165700-ScottishFinnishRadish-20241111132400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:57, 11 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Barkeep49-20241111165700-ScottishFinnishRadish-20241111132400"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Barkeep49-20241111165700-ScottishFinnishRadish-20241111132400"></span></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Seraphimblade-20241111203300-ScottishFinnishRadish-20241111132400"></span>I would support 1 and 5, and 4 in addition to but not instead of one of those. <a href="/wiki/User:Seraphimblade" title="User:Seraphimblade">Seraphimblade</a> <small><sup><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Seraphimblade" title="User talk:Seraphimblade">Talk to me</a></sup></small> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement#c-Seraphimblade-20241111203300-ScottishFinnishRadish-20241111132400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:33, 11 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Seraphimblade-20241111203300-ScottishFinnishRadish-20241111132400"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Seraphimblade-20241111203300-ScottishFinnishRadish-20241111132400"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Barkeep49-20241111212300-Seraphimblade-20241111203300"></span>For me we're going beyond the warning with the topic ban we're choosing to enact. But yes the aspersions and accusations are important to note. <a href="/wiki/User:Barkeep49" title="User:Barkeep49">Barkeep49</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Barkeep49" title="User talk:Barkeep49">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement#c-Barkeep49-20241111212300-Seraphimblade-20241111203300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:23, 11 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Barkeep49-20241111212300-Seraphimblade-20241111203300"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Barkeep49-20241111212300-Seraphimblade-20241111203300"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Theleekycauldron-20241112104400-Barkeep49-20241111212300"></span>Support 4 and 5 simultaneously, oppose 1 and 2 as too narrow (although support 1 if 2, 3, and 5 don't gain consensus). <a href="/wiki/User:Theleekycauldron" title="User:Theleekycauldron">theleekycauldron</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Theleekycauldron" title="User talk:Theleekycauldron">talk</a> • she/her) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement#c-Theleekycauldron-20241112104400-Barkeep49-20241111212300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">10:44, 12 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Theleekycauldron-20241112104400-Barkeep49-20241111212300"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Theleekycauldron-20241112104400-Barkeep49-20241111212300"></span></dd> <dd><a href="/wiki/User:Barkeep49" title="User:Barkeep49"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-ScottishFinnishRadish-20241112155900-Barkeep49-20241111212300"></span>Barkeep49</a>, are you opposed to the warning, or just ambivalent? Right now I would say we're on the edge of a consensus about the warning, with a solid consensus for the topic ban on the self-identification of living or recently deceased people. <a href="/wiki/User:ScottishFinnishRadish" title="User:ScottishFinnishRadish">ScottishFinnishRadish</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:ScottishFinnishRadish" title="User talk:ScottishFinnishRadish">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement#c-ScottishFinnishRadish-20241112155900-Barkeep49-20241111212300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:59, 12 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-ScottishFinnishRadish-20241112155900-Barkeep49-20241111212300"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-ScottishFinnishRadish-20241112155900-Barkeep49-20241111212300"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Barkeep49-20241112160200-ScottishFinnishRadish-20241112155900"></span>What is the warning doing here that the topic ban is not? We're not warning them for the other misbehavior they've displayed here - we're topic banning them. <a href="/wiki/User:Barkeep49" title="User:Barkeep49">Barkeep49</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Barkeep49" title="User talk:Barkeep49">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement#c-Barkeep49-20241112160200-ScottishFinnishRadish-20241112155900" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:02, 12 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Barkeep49-20241112160200-ScottishFinnishRadish-20241112155900"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Barkeep49-20241112160200-ScottishFinnishRadish-20241112155900"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-ScottishFinnishRadish-20241112161400-Barkeep49-20241112160200"></span><link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1248585704"><q class="inline-quote-talk">I do not like homophobia. I do not like being subject to homophobic attacks. These old conversations have been irrelevantly thrown in my face, on-Wiki and off-Wiki, by multiple people.</q> is an example from this AE report. <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk%3AAfrican-American_Jews&diff=1251846000&oldid=1251332289">This</a> and <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:African-American_Jews&diff=prev&oldid=1251847331">this</a> are tangentially related. I see the topic ban as addressing the BLPvio, and the warning relating to communication style in general. I support the warning, but I also see that the reason for the warning is why you supported the broader topic ban that covers Talk: as well. <a href="/wiki/User:ScottishFinnishRadish" title="User:ScottishFinnishRadish">ScottishFinnishRadish</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:ScottishFinnishRadish" title="User talk:ScottishFinnishRadish">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement#c-ScottishFinnishRadish-20241112161400-Barkeep49-20241112160200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:14, 12 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-ScottishFinnishRadish-20241112161400-Barkeep49-20241112160200"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-ScottishFinnishRadish-20241112161400-Barkeep49-20241112160200"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Seraphimblade-20241112214800-ScottishFinnishRadish-20241112161400"></span>For me, 1 or 5 (I'm fine with either) addresses the issue of trying to force what has proven to be highly contentious material into BLPs, so that's the misconduct leading to a topic ban (and TBs <i>normally</i> also cover talk page participation, so we're not taking any highly unusual step including that). 4 addresses the issue that, in addition to that, Bohemian Baltimore seems to have gotten into a habit of casting aspersions (and some pretty serious ones; most people would certainly not like to be called racist, homophobic, or the like) in discussions, and will need to drop that habit, not just in this topic area but in any discussions they may participate in going forward. If, going forward, they are going to bring such an accusation against any editor, they will need rock-solid evidence for it, not just to throw it out there. <a href="/wiki/User:Seraphimblade" title="User:Seraphimblade">Seraphimblade</a> <small><sup><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Seraphimblade" title="User talk:Seraphimblade">Talk to me</a></sup></small> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement#c-Seraphimblade-20241112214800-ScottishFinnishRadish-20241112161400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:48, 12 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Seraphimblade-20241112214800-ScottishFinnishRadish-20241112161400"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Seraphimblade-20241112214800-ScottishFinnishRadish-20241112161400"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></li> <li><a href="/wiki/User:Bohemian_Baltimore" title="User:Bohemian Baltimore"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Seraphimblade-20241113024100-Result_concerning_Bohemian_Baltimore"></span>Bohemian Baltimore</a>, I have just had to move several comments from the admin discussion section to yours. Please comment <i>only</i> in your own section going forward. <a href="/wiki/User:Seraphimblade" title="User:Seraphimblade">Seraphimblade</a> <small><sup><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Seraphimblade" title="User talk:Seraphimblade">Talk to me</a></sup></small> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement#c-Seraphimblade-20241113024100-Result_concerning_Bohemian_Baltimore" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:41, 13 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Seraphimblade-20241113024100-Result_concerning_Bohemian_Baltimore"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Seraphimblade-20241113024100-Result_concerning_Bohemian_Baltimore"></span></li> <li><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Zero0000-20241113031800-Result_concerning_Bohemian_Baltimore"></span>I haven't looked at BB's wider edits, but it seems to me that the narrow issue of categories could be satisfactorily resolved with an RfC. It could just be an RfC about categories related to indigenous peoples of North America. Then BB and everyone else will be required to conform to it. I'm dubious of Theleekycauldron's suggestion about a wider RfC as there would be more argument about the scope than about the result. <a href="/wiki/User:Zero0000" title="User:Zero0000">Zero</a><sup><small><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Zero0000" title="User talk:Zero0000">talk</a></small></sup> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement#c-Zero0000-20241113031800-Result_concerning_Bohemian_Baltimore" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">03:18, 13 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Zero0000-20241113031800-Result_concerning_Bohemian_Baltimore"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Zero0000-20241113031800-Result_concerning_Bohemian_Baltimore"></span></li> <li><span class="template-ping"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Red-tailed_hawk-20241113032000-Result_concerning_Bohemian_Baltimore"></span>@<a href="/wiki/User:Bohemian_Baltimore" title="User:Bohemian Baltimore">Bohemian Baltimore</a>:</span> You've alluded to an off-wiki canvassing campaign against you taking place on Tumblr in your comments above. I see that you have provided some links, though I am aware that it can be <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:OUTING" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:OUTING">a bit hard</a> to fully share all of that information on Wikipedia. If there is relevant information you cannot share on-wiki, I do hope that you collect evidence of the off-wiki coordination and send it to the Arbitration Committee, which is competent to review that sort of stuff and to take actions based on off-wiki evidence. — <a href="/wiki/User:Red-tailed_hawk" title="User:Red-tailed hawk"><span style="color: #660000">Red-tailed hawk</span></a> <sub><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Red-tailed_hawk" title="User talk:Red-tailed hawk"><span style="color: #660000">(nest)</span></a></sub> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement#c-Red-tailed_hawk-20241113032000-Result_concerning_Bohemian_Baltimore" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">03:20, 13 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Red-tailed_hawk-20241113032000-Result_concerning_Bohemian_Baltimore"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Red-tailed_hawk-20241113032000-Result_concerning_Bohemian_Baltimore"></span></li> <li><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-ScottishFinnishRadish-20241114130000-Result_concerning_Bohemian_Baltimore"></span>I'm seeing a rough consensus for a topic ban on the self-identification or citizenship of <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:BLP" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:BLP">living or recently deceased people</a> and a warning for casting aspersions and making accusations. Barring any administrator objection I'll close with that result soon. <a href="/wiki/User:ScottishFinnishRadish" title="User:ScottishFinnishRadish">ScottishFinnishRadish</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:ScottishFinnishRadish" title="User talk:ScottishFinnishRadish">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement#c-ScottishFinnishRadish-20241114130000-Result_concerning_Bohemian_Baltimore" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">13:00, 14 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-ScottishFinnishRadish-20241114130000-Result_concerning_Bohemian_Baltimore"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-ScottishFinnishRadish-20241114130000-Result_concerning_Bohemian_Baltimore"></span></li></ul> </td></tr></tbody></table> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Request_for_1RR_at_Fascism" data-mw-thread-id="h-Request_for_1RR_at_Fascism-20241104134700"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Request_for_1RR_at_Fascism-20241104134700"></span>Request for 1RR at Fascism<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Request_for_1RR_at_Fascism-20241104134700"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement&action=edit&section=17" title="Edit section: Request for 1RR at Fascism"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-ScottishFinnishRadish-20241118174900-Request_for_1RR_at_Fascism"></span><link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1256395271"> <table class="hidden-archive mw-collapsible mw-archivedtalk mw-collapsed"> <tbody><tr> <th class="hat-header">1RR removed. <a href="/wiki/User:ScottishFinnishRadish" title="User:ScottishFinnishRadish">ScottishFinnishRadish</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:ScottishFinnishRadish" title="User talk:ScottishFinnishRadish">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement#c-ScottishFinnishRadish-20241118174900-Request_for_1RR_at_Fascism" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:49, 18 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-ScottishFinnishRadish-20241118174900-Request_for_1RR_at_Fascism"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-ScottishFinnishRadish-20241118174900-Request_for_1RR_at_Fascism"></span> </th></tr> <tr> <td style="font-style:italic;"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Firefangledfeathers-20241104134700-Request_for_1RR_at_Fascism"></span>The following discussion has been closed. <span style="color:var(--color-error, red);"><b>Please do not modify it.</b></span> </td></tr> <tr> <td class="hat-content"> <p><span id="Fascism"></span><span class="plainlinks nourlexpansion lx"><a href="/wiki/Fascism" title="Fascism">Fascism</a> (<a href="/wiki/Special:EditPage/Fascism" title="Special:EditPage/Fascism">edit</a> | <a href="/wiki/Talk:Fascism" title="Talk:Fascism">talk</a> | <a href="/wiki/Special:PageHistory/Fascism" title="Special:PageHistory/Fascism">history</a><span class="sysop-show"> | <a href="/wiki/Special:ProtectPage/Fascism" title="Special:ProtectPage/Fascism">protect</a> | <a href="/wiki/Special:DeletePage/Fascism" title="Special:DeletePage/Fascism">delete</a></span> | <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:WhatLinksHere/Fascism&limit=999">links</a> | <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Fascism&action=watch">watch</a> | <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Log&page=Fascism">logs</a> | <a class="external text" href="https://tools.wmflabs.org/pageviews?pages=Fascism&project=en.wikipedia.org">views</a>)</span> </p><p>This article had 1RR imposed indefinitely <a href="/wiki/Talk:Fascism/Archive_30#stop_the_reverting_madness_-_ONE_REVERT_per_editor_effective_immediately" title="Talk:Fascism/Archive 30">in 2009</a>, by <a href="/wiki/User:KrakatoaKatie" title="User:KrakatoaKatie">KrakatoaKatie</a>, as an individual admin action. Judging based on comments so far, there's uncertainty about whether the restriction is enforceable. The options are to leave the restriction in limbo, remove the restriction, or have an admin adopt the restriction explicitly under CT, potentially AmPol. Are any admins willing to do so? There has been recent, AmPol-adjacent disruption of the article. <a href="/wiki/User:Firefangledfeathers" title="User:Firefangledfeathers">Firefangledfeathers</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Firefangledfeathers" title="User talk:Firefangledfeathers">talk</a> / <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Firefangledfeathers" title="Special:Contributions/Firefangledfeathers">contribs</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement#c-Firefangledfeathers-20241104134700-Request_for_1RR_at_Fascism" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">13:47, 4 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Firefangledfeathers-20241104134700-Request_for_1RR_at_Fascism"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Firefangledfeathers-20241104134700-Request_for_1RR_at_Fascism"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Firefangledfeathers-20241107161600-Firefangledfeathers-20241104134700"></span>I think there's a serious issue with an article restriction stuck in limbo like this. Some admins and editors think it's in place and enforceable, and others think it's misplace and unenforceable. We should move in one direction or the other. <a href="/wiki/User:Firefangledfeathers" title="User:Firefangledfeathers">Firefangledfeathers</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Firefangledfeathers" title="User talk:Firefangledfeathers">talk</a> / <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Firefangledfeathers" title="Special:Contributions/Firefangledfeathers">contribs</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement#c-Firefangledfeathers-20241107161600-Firefangledfeathers-20241104134700" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:16, 7 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Firefangledfeathers-20241107161600-Firefangledfeathers-20241104134700"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Firefangledfeathers-20241107161600-Firefangledfeathers-20241104134700"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-ScottishFinnishRadish-20241107162600-Firefangledfeathers-20241107161600"></span>That is a bit of a pickle, since the content being edit warred over isn't <i>really</i> AP2, persay, so placing 1RR as a CTOP action is a bit squirrely. I don't think anyone would object to using AmPol in this way, but if someone did they would have a point that it is a borderline use of CTOP sanctions. <a href="/wiki/User:ScottishFinnishRadish" title="User:ScottishFinnishRadish">ScottishFinnishRadish</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:ScottishFinnishRadish" title="User talk:ScottishFinnishRadish">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement#c-ScottishFinnishRadish-20241107162600-Firefangledfeathers-20241107161600" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:26, 7 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-ScottishFinnishRadish-20241107162600-Firefangledfeathers-20241107161600"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-ScottishFinnishRadish-20241107162600-Firefangledfeathers-20241107161600"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Firefangledfeathers-20241107182200-ScottishFinnishRadish-20241107162600"></span>To make the connection a bit more explicit: <ol><li>The main person recently edit warring to remove "far-right" as a descriptor of fascism is <a href="/wiki/User:Johnny_Spasm" title="User:Johnny Spasm">Johnny Spasm</a>. I'll drop a formal notice at their talk page, but to be clear, I'm not advocating for enforcement action against him. Diffs of removal: <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Fascism&diff=prev&oldid=1253731030">1</a>, <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Fascism&diff=prev&oldid=1253893980">2</a>, <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Fascism&diff=prev&oldid=1254091222">3</a>, <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Fascism&diff=prev&oldid=1254530314">4</a>.</li> <li>JS contextualized this repeated removal as an American-politics-related action in comments at the talk page: <div><ol style="list-style-type:lower-alpha"><li>dismissing the view of another editor and making assertions about their politics because they <style data-mw-deduplicate="TemplateStyles:r1216540955">.mw-parser-output .talk-quote-darker{font-family:Georgia,"DejaVu Serif",serif;color:#007051;quotes:none}.mw-parser-output .talk-quote-darker-italic{font-family:inherit;font-style:italic}.mw-parser-output .talk-quote-darker-marks{quotes:"\"""\""}</style><q class="talk-quote-darker">"live in Seattle, Washington"</q> (<a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Fascism&diff=prev&oldid=1253869229">diff</a>)</li><li>identifying as an <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1216540955"><q class="talk-quote-darker">"American with far right beliefs"</q> and arguing that <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1216540955"><q class="talk-quote-darker">"it is the far left in America that displays more fascist values than the far right"</q>, calling Biden out specifically (<a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk%3AFascism&diff=1254473046&oldid=1253875078">diff</a>)</li><li>Criticizes the descriptor's inclusion while <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1216540955"><q class="talk-quote-darker">"both candidates in the US Presidential election are throwing around the word fascism"</q> (<a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Fascism&diff=prev&oldid=1254505592diff">[26]</a>)</li></ol></div></li></ol></dd> <dd>If that's not enough of a connection, it's unlikely that enforcement of the 1RR could be reasonably connected to any other CT, and the restriction should be removed. Admins here, with experience judging which articles are covered by which CTs, are best placed to make the call to either adopt the restriction or remove it. <a href="/wiki/User:Firefangledfeathers" title="User:Firefangledfeathers">Firefangledfeathers</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Firefangledfeathers" title="User talk:Firefangledfeathers">talk</a> / <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Firefangledfeathers" title="Special:Contributions/Firefangledfeathers">contribs</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement#c-Firefangledfeathers-20241107182200-ScottishFinnishRadish-20241107162600" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:22, 7 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Firefangledfeathers-20241107182200-ScottishFinnishRadish-20241107162600"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Firefangledfeathers-20241107182200-ScottishFinnishRadish-20241107162600"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-ScottishFinnishRadish-20241108235300-Firefangledfeathers-20241107182200"></span>Before assuming this as a CTOP action, has there been much edit warring other than the recent edit warring that resulted in a block? For an indefinite 1RR there should be a substantial history of edit warring. That 1RR looked like it was a response to an edit war almost 15 years ago, so absent more disruption I'd say let it lapse. <a href="/wiki/User:ScottishFinnishRadish" title="User:ScottishFinnishRadish">ScottishFinnishRadish</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:ScottishFinnishRadish" title="User talk:ScottishFinnishRadish">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement#c-ScottishFinnishRadish-20241108235300-Firefangledfeathers-20241107182200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:53, 8 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-ScottishFinnishRadish-20241108235300-Firefangledfeathers-20241107182200"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-ScottishFinnishRadish-20241108235300-Firefangledfeathers-20241107182200"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Valereee-20241109164300-ScottishFinnishRadish-20241108235300"></span>It's pretty actively edited, with multiple reversions in the past week. I have no objection to allowing it to lapse, though, replacing it if needed. KKatie hasn't edited in a week, maybe suspense for a few days as not urgent? <a href="/wiki/User:Valereee" title="User:Valereee">Valereee</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Valereee" title="User talk:Valereee">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement#c-Valereee-20241109164300-ScottishFinnishRadish-20241108235300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:43, 9 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Valereee-20241109164300-ScottishFinnishRadish-20241108235300"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Valereee-20241109164300-ScottishFinnishRadish-20241108235300"></span></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Firefangledfeathers-20241109191300-ScottishFinnishRadish-20241108235300"></span>There has not been any other recent major edit warring. <a href="/wiki/User:Firefangledfeathers" title="User:Firefangledfeathers">Firefangledfeathers</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Firefangledfeathers" title="User talk:Firefangledfeathers">talk</a> / <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Firefangledfeathers" title="Special:Contributions/Firefangledfeathers">contribs</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement#c-Firefangledfeathers-20241109191300-ScottishFinnishRadish-20241108235300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:13, 9 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Firefangledfeathers-20241109191300-ScottishFinnishRadish-20241108235300"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Firefangledfeathers-20241109191300-ScottishFinnishRadish-20241108235300"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Firefangledfeathers-20241113132500-Firefangledfeathers-20241109191300"></span>There was a minor edit war over the same left v. right issue on 10 November. Three editors involved, and one reverted twice. That editor has a brief enough edit history that it's easily gleaned that they are American or have a predominant interest in American topics. Only edit to a political bio is an American political bio.</dd> <dd>Again, I wouldn't object to someone determining that this is not enough disruption and removing the restriction. Either side of this knife's edge would be good. <a href="/wiki/User:Firefangledfeathers" title="User:Firefangledfeathers">Firefangledfeathers</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Firefangledfeathers" title="User talk:Firefangledfeathers">talk</a> / <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Firefangledfeathers" title="Special:Contributions/Firefangledfeathers">contribs</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement#c-Firefangledfeathers-20241113132500-Firefangledfeathers-20241109191300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">13:25, 13 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Firefangledfeathers-20241113132500-Firefangledfeathers-20241109191300"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Firefangledfeathers-20241113132500-Firefangledfeathers-20241109191300"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-ScottishFinnishRadish-20241113142200-Firefangledfeathers-20241113132500"></span>I agree that we should have a decision one way or another, but unless it's pressing I'm willing to wait a bit longer for <a href="/wiki/User:KrakatoaKatie" title="User:KrakatoaKatie">KrakatoaKatie</a> to weigh in. At this point I'm coming down on the side of removing 1RR. <a href="/wiki/User:ScottishFinnishRadish" title="User:ScottishFinnishRadish">ScottishFinnishRadish</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:ScottishFinnishRadish" title="User talk:ScottishFinnishRadish">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement#c-ScottishFinnishRadish-20241113142200-Firefangledfeathers-20241113132500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">14:22, 13 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-ScottishFinnishRadish-20241113142200-Firefangledfeathers-20241113132500"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-ScottishFinnishRadish-20241113142200-Firefangledfeathers-20241113132500"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-KrakatoaKatie-20241113144100-ScottishFinnishRadish-20241113142200"></span>Gosh, I missed this discussion somehow. Sorry, everybody. :-( If there's no need, by all means let's lift it. I remember placing this, which is a minor miracle considering I don't remember to rinse the conditioner from my hair sometimes, and it was a barn burner of an edit war back then. I'm all for lifting stuff that's no longer necessary. <span style="color: #9932CC"><a href="/wiki/User:KrakatoaKatie" title="User:KrakatoaKatie">Katie</a><sup><a href="/wiki/User_talk:KrakatoaKatie" title="User talk:KrakatoaKatie">talk</a></sup></span> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement#c-KrakatoaKatie-20241113144100-ScottishFinnishRadish-20241113142200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">14:41, 13 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-KrakatoaKatie-20241113144100-ScottishFinnishRadish-20241113142200"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-KrakatoaKatie-20241113144100-ScottishFinnishRadish-20241113142200"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Firefangledfeathers-20241118145600-KrakatoaKatie-20241113144100"></span>Pinging <a href="/wiki/User:ScottishFinnishRadish" title="User:ScottishFinnishRadish">ScottishFinnishRadish</a> and <a href="/wiki/User:Valereee" title="User:Valereee">Valereee</a>, who both mentioned wanting to hear from KK. <a href="/wiki/User:Firefangledfeathers" title="User:Firefangledfeathers">Firefangledfeathers</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Firefangledfeathers" title="User talk:Firefangledfeathers">talk</a> / <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Firefangledfeathers" title="Special:Contributions/Firefangledfeathers">contribs</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement#c-Firefangledfeathers-20241118145600-KrakatoaKatie-20241113144100" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">14:56, 18 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Firefangledfeathers-20241118145600-KrakatoaKatie-20241113144100"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Firefangledfeathers-20241118145600-KrakatoaKatie-20241113144100"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Valereee-20241118150300-Firefangledfeathers-20241118145600"></span>I feel like with p-blocks available, we probably can pull the 1RR off and see what happens. It's easy enough to put it back if it turns out it was helping. <a href="/wiki/User:Valereee" title="User:Valereee">Valereee</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Valereee" title="User talk:Valereee">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement#c-Valereee-20241118150300-Firefangledfeathers-20241118145600" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:03, 18 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Valereee-20241118150300-Firefangledfeathers-20241118145600"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Valereee-20241118150300-Firefangledfeathers-20241118145600"></span></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-ScottishFinnishRadish-20241118150300-Firefangledfeathers-20241118145600"></span>I'm fine with lifting it. Is it in an edit notice, or logged anywhere? <a href="/wiki/User:ScottishFinnishRadish" title="User:ScottishFinnishRadish">ScottishFinnishRadish</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:ScottishFinnishRadish" title="User talk:ScottishFinnishRadish">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement#c-ScottishFinnishRadish-20241118150300-Firefangledfeathers-20241118145600" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:03, 18 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-ScottishFinnishRadish-20241118150300-Firefangledfeathers-20241118145600"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-ScottishFinnishRadish-20241118150300-Firefangledfeathers-20241118145600"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Firefangledfeathers-20241118150700-ScottishFinnishRadish-20241118150300"></span>It's at <a href="/wiki/Template:Editnotices/Page/Fascism" title="Template:Editnotices/Page/Fascism">Template:Editnotices/Page/Fascism</a>. No log that I could find. <a href="/wiki/User:Firefangledfeathers" title="User:Firefangledfeathers">Firefangledfeathers</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Firefangledfeathers" title="User talk:Firefangledfeathers">talk</a> / <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Firefangledfeathers" title="Special:Contributions/Firefangledfeathers">contribs</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement#c-Firefangledfeathers-20241118150700-ScottishFinnishRadish-20241118150300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:07, 18 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Firefangledfeathers-20241118150700-ScottishFinnishRadish-20241118150300"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Firefangledfeathers-20241118150700-ScottishFinnishRadish-20241118150300"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-ScottishFinnishRadish-20241118151100-Firefangledfeathers-20241118150700"></span>Removed it with a reference to this discussion. <a href="/wiki/User:ScottishFinnishRadish" title="User:ScottishFinnishRadish">ScottishFinnishRadish</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:ScottishFinnishRadish" title="User talk:ScottishFinnishRadish">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement#c-ScottishFinnishRadish-20241118151100-Firefangledfeathers-20241118150700" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:11, 18 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-ScottishFinnishRadish-20241118151100-Firefangledfeathers-20241118150700"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-ScottishFinnishRadish-20241118151100-Firefangledfeathers-20241118150700"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Firefangledfeathers-20241118151800-ScottishFinnishRadish-20241118151100"></span>Thanks! <a href="/wiki/User:Firefangledfeathers" title="User:Firefangledfeathers">Firefangledfeathers</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Firefangledfeathers" title="User talk:Firefangledfeathers">talk</a> / <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Firefangledfeathers" title="Special:Contributions/Firefangledfeathers">contribs</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement#c-Firefangledfeathers-20241118151800-ScottishFinnishRadish-20241118151100" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:18, 18 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Firefangledfeathers-20241118151800-ScottishFinnishRadish-20241118151100"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Firefangledfeathers-20241118151800-ScottishFinnishRadish-20241118151100"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Johnuniq-20241115011100-Firefangledfeathers-20241104134700"></span>It looks like lifting the restriction is agreed but I checked a couple of recent edits that asserted fascism is a far-left ideology (one editor went on to make the same claim regarding Nazism), and it is crystal-clear that it is an AP issue. I know we're supposed to be nice but edits like that warrant a NOTHERE or CIR indef, IMHO. While we have to welcome new editors, we also have a duty to support established editors who get worn down by the grinding river of ignorance. <a href="/wiki/User:Johnuniq" title="User:Johnuniq">Johnuniq</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Johnuniq" title="User talk:Johnuniq">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement#c-Johnuniq-20241115011100-Firefangledfeathers-20241104134700" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:11, 15 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Johnuniq-20241115011100-Firefangledfeathers-20241104134700"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Johnuniq-20241115011100-Firefangledfeathers-20241104134700"></span></dd></dl> </td></tr></tbody></table> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Southasianhistorian8" data-mw-thread-id="h-Southasianhistorian8-20241114170000"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Southasianhistorian8-20241114170000"></span>Southasianhistorian8<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Southasianhistorian8-20241114170000"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement&action=edit&section=18" title="Edit section: Southasianhistorian8"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><small><i>This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. <br/>Requests may not exceed 500 <a href="/wiki/Word_count#Software" title="Word count">words</a> and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.</i></small> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading3"><h3 id="Request_concerning_Southasianhistorian8" data-mw-thread-id="h-Request_concerning_Southasianhistorian8-Southasianhistorian8-20241114170000"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Request_concerning_Southasianhistorian8-Southasianhistorian8-20241114170000"></span>Request concerning Southasianhistorian8<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Request_concerning_Southasianhistorian8-Southasianhistorian8-20241114170000"></span></h3><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement&action=edit&section=19" title="Edit section: Request concerning Southasianhistorian8"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span></div> <dl><dt><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-GhostOfDanGurney-20241114170000-Request_concerning_Southasianhistorian8"></span>User who is submitting this request for enforcement</dt> <dd><a href="/wiki/User:GhostOfDanGurney" title="User:GhostOfDanGurney">GhostOfDanGurney</a> <span class="plainlinks">(<a href="/wiki/User_talk:GhostOfDanGurney" title="User talk:GhostOfDanGurney">talk</a> <b>·</b> <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/GhostOfDanGurney" title="Special:Contributions/GhostOfDanGurney">contribs</a> <b>·</b> <a href="/wiki/Special:DeletedContributions/GhostOfDanGurney" title="Special:DeletedContributions/GhostOfDanGurney">deleted contribs</a> <b>·</b> <a href="/wiki/Special:Log/GhostOfDanGurney" title="Special:Log/GhostOfDanGurney">logs</a> <b>·</b> <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3AAbuseLog&wpSearchUser=GhostOfDanGurney">filter log</a> <b>·</b> <a href="/wiki/Special:Block/GhostOfDanGurney" title="Special:Block/GhostOfDanGurney">block user</a> <b>·</b> <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3ALog%2Fblock&page=User%3AGhostOfDanGurney">block log</a>)</span> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement#c-GhostOfDanGurney-20241114170000-Request_concerning_Southasianhistorian8" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:00, 14 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-GhostOfDanGurney-20241114170000-Request_concerning_Southasianhistorian8"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-GhostOfDanGurney-20241114170000-Request_concerning_Southasianhistorian8"></span></dd></dl> <dl><dt><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-GhostOfDanGurney-20241114170000-Request_concerning_Southasianhistorian8-1"></span>User against whom enforcement is requested</dt> <dd><a href="/wiki/User:Southasianhistorian8" title="User:Southasianhistorian8">Southasianhistorian8</a> <span class="plainlinks">(<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Southasianhistorian8" title="User talk:Southasianhistorian8">talk</a> <b>·</b> <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Southasianhistorian8" title="Special:Contributions/Southasianhistorian8">contribs</a> <b>·</b> <a href="/wiki/Special:DeletedContributions/Southasianhistorian8" title="Special:DeletedContributions/Southasianhistorian8">deleted contribs</a> <b>·</b> <a href="/wiki/Special:Log/Southasianhistorian8" title="Special:Log/Southasianhistorian8">logs</a> <b>·</b> <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3AAbuseLog&wpSearchUser=Southasianhistorian8">filter log</a> <b>·</b> <a href="/wiki/Special:Block/Southasianhistorian8" title="Special:Block/Southasianhistorian8">block user</a> <b>·</b> <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3ALog%2Fblock&page=User%3ASouthasianhistorian8">block log</a>)</span><p><span class="plainlinks">Search CT alerts<a href="/wiki/Template:Contentious_topics/log" title="Template:Contentious topics/log">:</a> <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Southasianhistorian8&action=history&tagfilter=contentious+topics+alert">in user talk history</a> • <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:AbuseLog&wpSearchFilter=602&wpSearchTitle=User+talk%3ASouthasianhistorian8">in system log</a></span></p></dd></dl> <p><br/> </p> <dl><dt>Sanction or remedy to be enforced</dt> <dd><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:ARBIPA" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:ARBIPA">Wikipedia:ARBIPA</a></dd></dl> <dl><dt><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:DIFF" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:DIFF">Diffs</a> of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation <i>how</i> these edits violate it</dt> <dd></dd></dl> <ol><li><a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Khalistan_movement&diff=prev&oldid=1257032461">21:37, November 12</a> Ignores <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:ONUS" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:ONUS">WP:ONUS</a>, edit warring in order to restore POV-pushing/<a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:COATRACK" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:COATRACK">WP:COATRACK</a> content after that content had been removed by <a href="/wiki/User:Nyttend" title="User:Nyttend">Nyttend</a>.</li> <li><a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Hardeep_Singh_Nijjar&diff=prev&oldid=1257269567">02:11, November 14</a> Repeats the same <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:COATRACK" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:COATRACK">WP:COATRACK</a> behaviour at another article, just over 24hrs after Nyttend (a longstanding administrator) warned them about <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:COATRACK" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:COATRACK">WP:COATRACK</a> on their talk page.</li> <li><a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Southasianhistorian8&diff=prev&oldid=1257318371">08:49 November 14</a> <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:PA" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:PA">Personal attack</a> towards me on their userpage in response to sharing my concern about diff2 and agreeing with Nyttend, claims I'm <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1248585704"><q class="inline-quote-talk">"piling on my t/p over a <b>topic that does not concern you</b> as a form of <b>petty bullying/harassment and revenge</b>."</q> (bolding mine; Nyttend was the only other user with a message on their talk page)</li> <li><a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:GhostOfDanGurney&diff=prev&oldid=1257326122">10:05 November 14</a> Leaves a retaliatory message on my talk page, spurned by my reverting of their edit in diff2.</li></ol> <dl><dt>Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any</dt> <dd></dd></dl> <ol><li><a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Southasianhistorian8&diff=prev&oldid=1090688302">20:47, 2022 May 30</a> Indeff'd for <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:SOCKPUPPETRY" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:SOCKPUPPETRY">abusing multiple accounts</a> in the area of conflict as per <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Sockpuppet_investigations/Suthasianhistorian8/Archive" title="Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Suthasianhistorian8/Archive">Wikipedia:Sockpuppet_investigations/Suthasianhistorian8/Archive</a>. Unblocked in December 2022 following a standard offer.</li> <li><a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Southasianhistorian8&diff=prev&oldid=1054725243">19:06, 2021 November 11</a> 48hrs for edit warring in the area of conflict.</li></ol> <dl><dt>If <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Contentious_topics" title="Wikipedia:Contentious topics">contentious topics restrictions</a> are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:CTOP#Awareness_of_contentious_topics" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:CTOP">WP:CTOP#Awareness of contentious topics</a>)</dt> <dd></dd></dl> <ul><li>Alerted about discretionary sanctions or contentious topics in the area of conflict, on <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Southasianhistorian8&diff=prev&oldid=1057433472">16:31, 2021 November 27</a> (see the system log linked to above).</li></ul> <dl><dt>Additional comments by editor filing complaint</dt> <dd></dd></dl> <p>SAH continues to push their anti-Sikh POV into articles. Diff1 shows them adding repetitive content which was already covered in the article, not to mention that it has <a href="/wiki/Canada%E2%80%93India_diplomatic_row" title="Canada–India diplomatic row">its own article</a>. Repeating in such detail can only be interpreted as an attempt to <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:SYNTH" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:SYNTH">draw a equivalency</a> between <a href="/wiki/Khalistan_movement" title="Khalistan movement">Khalistan movement</a> and the Canada-India row that is not supported by sources. </p><p>Diff2 shows them doing them same at <a href="/wiki/Hardeep_Singh_Nijjar" title="Hardeep Singh Nijjar">Hardeep Singh Nijjar</a>, using that article as a COATRACK to add content about a tangentially relevant person, content which belong in an article about that person, and attempting to further their POV that Nijjar was a "militant". </p><p>Diffs 3 and 4 showcase an unwillingness to self-reflect when conduct concerns are brought up, getting defensive with personal attacks, retaliatory warnings, and digging up of past dirt (which they already mentioned in the last AE thread about them). At no point do they acknowledge <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:COATRACK" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:COATRACK">WP:COATRACK</a> either in response to Nyttend or myself. </p><p>Contribution history shows they nearly-exclusively edit about Sikh topics, suppressing positive information and restoring negative information. Talk page history shows numerous NPOV warnings. At this point, we either have a <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:IDHT" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:IDHT">LISTENing</a> issue or a <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:NOTHERE" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:NOTHERE">WP:NOTHERE</a> issue. ―<span style="background:#368ec9;border:solid 2px;border-radius:5px"> <i><b><a href="/wiki/User_talk:GhostOfDanGurney" title="User talk:GhostOfDanGurney"><span style="color:white">"Ghost of Dan Gurney" (talk)</span></a></b></i> </span> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement#c-GhostOfDanGurney-20241114170000-Request_concerning_Southasianhistorian8-1" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:00, 14 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-GhostOfDanGurney-20241114170000-Request_concerning_Southasianhistorian8-1"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-GhostOfDanGurney-20241114170000-Request_concerning_Southasianhistorian8-1"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span class="template-ping"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-GhostOfDanGurney-20241115011400-GhostOfDanGurney-20241114170000"></span>@<a href="/w/index.php?title=User:103.251.217.66&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:103.251.217.66 (page does not exist)">103.251.217.66</a>:</span> I disagree with your evaluation of this as only a content dispute. I am reporting conduct; specifically violations of <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:EW" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:EW">WP:EW</a> (after the user made an agreement to <b>never edit war</b><a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Southasianhistorian8/Archive_1#Appeal_2">[27]</a> as part of their SOCK unblock request), <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:NPOV" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:NPOV">WP:NPOV</a>, and <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:NPA" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:NPA">WP:NPA</a>. I am aware that AE does not and should never rule on content. ―<span style="background:#368ec9;border:solid 2px;border-radius:5px"> <i><b><a href="/wiki/User_talk:GhostOfDanGurney" title="User talk:GhostOfDanGurney"><span style="color:white">"Ghost of Dan Gurney" (talk)</span></a></b></i> </span> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement#c-GhostOfDanGurney-20241115011400-GhostOfDanGurney-20241114170000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:14, 15 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-GhostOfDanGurney-20241115011400-GhostOfDanGurney-20241114170000"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-GhostOfDanGurney-20241115011400-GhostOfDanGurney-20241114170000"></span></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-GhostOfDanGurney-20241115022600-GhostOfDanGurney-20241114170000"></span>Has SAH gotten a waiver of the word limit that I'm not aware of? They are at 1552 by my count. ―<span style="background:#368ec9;border:solid 2px;border-radius:5px"> <i><b><a href="/wiki/User_talk:GhostOfDanGurney" title="User talk:GhostOfDanGurney"><span style="color:white">"Ghost of Dan Gurney" (talk)</span></a></b></i> </span> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement#c-GhostOfDanGurney-20241115022600-GhostOfDanGurney-20241114170000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:26, 15 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-GhostOfDanGurney-20241115022600-GhostOfDanGurney-20241114170000"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-GhostOfDanGurney-20241115022600-GhostOfDanGurney-20241114170000"></span> <dl><dd><span class="template-ping"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-GhostOfDanGurney-20241116233000-GhostOfDanGurney-20241115022600"></span>@<a href="/wiki/User:Ivanvector" title="User:Ivanvector">Ivanvector</a>:</span> While BLPCRIME is <i><b>a</b></i> reason why I <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Hardeep_Singh_Nijjar&diff=next&oldid=1257269827">reverted</a> diff 2, it was not the <i>only</i> reason, with the other reason being that I felt SAH was pushing a POV using <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:COATRACK" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:COATRACK">WP:COATRACK</a> edits, something they had been warned about 24 hours previously for the edit in diff 1. My issue with the edit to Hardeep Singh Nijjar re: Arsh Dalla is beyond the BLPCRIME issue. It goes into the aspect of using another person's arrest to further a POV that Nijjar was a militant extremist.</dd> <dd>The fact that SAH filed a report about Simonm223 to AN today<a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard&diff=prev&oldid=1257729734">[28]</a> for simply <i>trying to engage with SAH at SAH's talk page</i><a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Southasianhistorian8&diff=prev&oldid=1257415994">[29]</a>, then <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:BADGER" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:BADGER">WP:BADGERed</a> voorts at voort's talk page after voorts closed the thread<a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Voorts&diff=prev&oldid=1257794737">[30]</a> shows that SAH's conduct is the primary issue, not the content of any article. ―<span style="background:#368ec9;border:solid 2px;border-radius:5px"> <i><b><a href="/wiki/User_talk:GhostOfDanGurney" title="User talk:GhostOfDanGurney"><span style="color:white">"Ghost of Dan Gurney" (talk)</span></a></b></i> </span> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement#c-GhostOfDanGurney-20241116233000-GhostOfDanGurney-20241115022600" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:30, 16 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-GhostOfDanGurney-20241116233000-GhostOfDanGurney-20241115022600"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-GhostOfDanGurney-20241116233000-GhostOfDanGurney-20241115022600"></span> <dl><dd><span class="template-ping"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-GhostOfDanGurney-20241121025100-GhostOfDanGurney-20241116233000"></span>@<a href="/wiki/User:ScottishFinnishRadish" title="User:ScottishFinnishRadish">ScottishFinnishRadish</a>:</span> it is at DRN <a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard#Zeroth_statement_by_possible_moderator_(Hardeep_Singh_Nijjar)">[31]</a> on referral by <a href="/wiki/User:Voorts" title="User:Voorts">Voorts</a> after SAH made a thread reporting <a href="/wiki/User:Simonm223" title="User:Simonm223">Simonm223</a> at ANI <a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/IncidentArchive1172#Persistent_IDHT_and_disruptive_fabrication_of_Wikipedia_policy">[32]</a>, was warned for forum shopping, then badgered voorts at their talk page<a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Voorts&oldid=1257797878#Question_about_ANI_closure">[33]</a> The DRN has new posts tonight that I still need to catch up on. ―<span style="background:#368ec9;border:solid 2px;border-radius:5px"> <i><b><a href="/wiki/User_talk:GhostOfDanGurney" title="User talk:GhostOfDanGurney"><span style="color:white">"Ghost of Dan Gurney" (talk)</span></a></b></i> </span> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement#c-GhostOfDanGurney-20241121025100-GhostOfDanGurney-20241116233000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:51, 21 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-GhostOfDanGurney-20241121025100-GhostOfDanGurney-20241116233000"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-GhostOfDanGurney-20241121025100-GhostOfDanGurney-20241116233000"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-GhostOfDanGurney-20241121025800-GhostOfDanGurney-20241121025100"></span>...Okay, seriously, this is getting out of hand now. SAH's response to being asked to <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1248585704"><q class="inline-quote-talk inline-quote-talk-marks">state concisely what they want to change that another editor wants to leave the same</q> at DRN is to post a wall of text outlining their entire rationale to insert what they call "a brief few sentences or paragraphs" (huh?). Is this not <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:BLUDGEONING" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:BLUDGEONING">WP:BLUDGEONING</a> of a discussion?<a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard&oldid=1258697329#Zeroth_statements_by_editors_(Hardeep_Singh_Nijjar)">[34]</a> ―<span style="background:#368ec9;border:solid 2px;border-radius:5px"> <i><b><a href="/wiki/User_talk:GhostOfDanGurney" title="User talk:GhostOfDanGurney"><span style="color:white">"Ghost of Dan Gurney" (talk)</span></a></b></i> </span> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement#c-GhostOfDanGurney-20241121025800-GhostOfDanGurney-20241121025100" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:58, 21 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-GhostOfDanGurney-20241121025800-GhostOfDanGurney-20241121025100"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-GhostOfDanGurney-20241121025800-GhostOfDanGurney-20241121025100"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <dl><dt>Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested</dt> <dd></dd></dl> <p><a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Southasianhistorian8&diff=prev&oldid=1257382749">[35]</a> </p><p><br/> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading3"><h3 id="Discussion_concerning_Southasianhistorian8" data-mw-thread-id="h-Discussion_concerning_Southasianhistorian8-Southasianhistorian8-20241114192700"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Discussion_concerning_Southasianhistorian8-Southasianhistorian8-20241114192700"></span>Discussion concerning Southasianhistorian8<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Discussion_concerning_Southasianhistorian8-Southasianhistorian8-20241114192700"></span></h3><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement&action=edit&section=20" title="Edit section: Discussion concerning Southasianhistorian8"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span></div> <p><small><i>Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 <a href="/wiki/Word_count#Software" title="Word count">words</a> and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.<br/>Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.</i></small> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading4"><h4 id="Statement_by_Southasianhistorian8" data-mw-thread-id="h-Statement_by_Southasianhistorian8-Discussion_concerning_Southasianhistorian8"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Statement_by_Southasianhistorian8-Discussion_concerning_Southasianhistorian8"></span>Statement by Southasianhistorian8<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Statement_by_Southasianhistorian8-Discussion_concerning_Southasianhistorian8"></span></h4><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement&action=edit&section=21" title="Edit section: Statement by Southasianhistorian8"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span></div> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading4"><h4 id="Statement_by_Southasianhistorian8_2" data-mw-thread-id="h-Statement_by_Southasianhistorian8_2-Discussion_concerning_Southasianhistorian8-20241114192700"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Statement_by_Southasianhistorian8_2-Discussion_concerning_Southasianhistorian8-20241114192700"></span>Statement by Southasianhistorian8<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Statement_by_Southasianhistorian8_2-Discussion_concerning_Southasianhistorian8-20241114192700"></span></h4><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement&action=edit&section=22" title="Edit section: Statement by Southasianhistorian8"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span></div> <ul><li><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Bishonen-20241121091100-Statement_by_Southasianhistorian8_2"></span>(Note, below is SAH's original statement, the one people have commented on. The altered statement, where he removed/changed the things others had criticised, so that their criticism no longer made sense, can be found <a href="/wiki/Special:Diff/1258714448" title="Special:Diff/1258714448">here</a>. See my comment down in the admin section (in a moment from now) for why I've put their original statement back. <a href="/wiki/User:Bishonen" title="User:Bishonen">Bishonen</a> | <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Bishonen" title="User talk:Bishonen">tålk</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement#c-Bishonen-20241121091100-Statement_by_Southasianhistorian8_2" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">09:11, 21 November 2024 (UTC)</a>.)<span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Bishonen-20241121091100-Statement_by_Southasianhistorian8_2"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Bishonen-20241121091100-Statement_by_Southasianhistorian8_2"></span></li></ul> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Southasianhistorian8-20241114192700-Statement_by_Southasianhistorian8_2"></span>Talk about desperation. Any outsider can take a look at my handling on <a href="/wiki/Khalistan_movement" title="Khalistan movement">Khalistan movement</a> and see that I handled myself very responsibly as opposed to GhostofDanGurney who keeps lobbing personal attacks at editors he dislikes. I <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Khalistan_movement&action=history">only made one revert</a>, and when Nyttend posted on my t/p, <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Southasianhistorian8">I told him I would not revert further,</a> <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Khalistan_movement#Canada-India_diplomatic_row">and initiated a discussion on the t/p</a>. The content I added was literally a direct result of the killing of Hardeep Singh Nijjar, a Khalistan activist, and the RCMP's allegations of India's operations against Khalistan activists, so clearly the event is relevant to the page at least to some degree and I'm extremely confident that editors at 3O or DRN will agree. The content there wasn't even authored by me, I copied it (with attribution) from the <a href="/wiki/Canada-India_diplomatic_row" class="mw-redirect" title="Canada-India diplomatic row">Canada-India diplomatic row</a>. If I was so biased, wouldn't I be trying to suppress this information? I figured that precluding such a consequential event would be irresponsible and make it appear as though the page was skewed towards a pro-India narrative. What more do you want from me? </p><p>Now, in line with GhostofDanGurney hastily making edits to get one over me such as here-<a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Canada%E2%80%93India_diplomatic_row&diff=prev&oldid=1253449989">where he engaged in interpretation of a primary source to publicy discredit a figure, as confirmed by ScottishFinnishRadish on A/E</a>, <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement&diff=prev&oldid=1253487149">here where he falsely accused me of plagiarizing his work</a><a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Hardeep_Singh_Nijjar&diff=prev&oldid=1257312443">Now he falsely called Arsh Dalla a "low profile" individual thus wrongly invoking BLPCRIME; Ghost could have spent at least 10 minutes researching this guy or at least initiated a respectful discussion on the t/p instead of piling attacks on my t/p</a>. <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Southasianhistorian8&diff=prev&oldid=1257317133">Instead he made a rude condescending post on my t/p, threatening to escalate matters and stating that I need to confirm whether I understand Wikipedia's policies to him, as if he's my boss or something</a>. <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Hardeep_Singh_Nijjar#Arsh_Dalla">He has yet to engage in the t/p of the article where I laid out sources and arguments</a>, instead coming here to again win a content dispute illegitimately. </p><p><a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement#Southasianhistorian8">Now just days after his failed A/E request where he was also criticized for making personal attacks and making nonconstructive edits, he's again wasting everyone's tie over this drama</a>. This ridiculous BATTLEGROUND behaviour should not be given carte-blanche here.<a href="/wiki/User:Southasianhistorian8" title="User:Southasianhistorian8">Southasianhistorian8</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Southasianhistorian8" title="User talk:Southasianhistorian8">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement#c-Southasianhistorian8-20241114192700-Statement_by_Southasianhistorian8_2" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:27, 14 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Southasianhistorian8-20241114192700-Statement_by_Southasianhistorian8_2"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Southasianhistorian8-20241114192700-Statement_by_Southasianhistorian8_2"></span> </p><p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Southasianhistorian8-20241115030200-Statement_by_Southasianhistorian8_2"></span>@GhostofDanGurney- Is one revert on the Khalistan movement page, in which I believed the removal from Nyttend to be a simple misunderstanding and subsequently went on the t/p, and zero reverts on the Hardeep Singh Nijjar page - for a grand total of<b> one revert</b> considered "edit warring". If so, you've edit warred hundreds of times as well Ghost. You've also told people to <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:GhostOfDanGurney&diff=prev&oldid=846616405">"fuck themselves"</a>, called them <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:GhostOfDanGurney&diff=prev&oldid=839161588">"thots"</a> and "hypocrites" and more; I've never come close to saying something like that. Again, I strongly urge admins to issue a block for these juvenile insults. Literally every disagreement on his t/p is met with a nasty response-<a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:GhostOfDanGurney&diff=prev&oldid=1181175680">[36]</a>, <a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:GhostOfDanGurney&diff=prev&oldid=1176557150">[37]</a>. This ill-researched statement is like the last time <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement&diff=prev&oldid=1253487149">when you falsely accused me of plagiarizing your work.</a> </p><p>Regarding, allegations of BLPCRIME or Dalla's low-profile/non public figure status-I've laid out a comprehensive case here-<a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Hardeep_Singh_Nijjar#Response_to_claims_of_Dalla's_low_profile_+_non_public_figure">which shows extensive media coverage surrounding Dalla + sources in which Dalla clearly gave interviews to the media thus making him a high profile person as per Wiki policy</a>. <a href="/wiki/User:Southasianhistorian8" title="User:Southasianhistorian8">Southasianhistorian8</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Southasianhistorian8" title="User talk:Southasianhistorian8">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement#c-Southasianhistorian8-20241115030200-Statement_by_Southasianhistorian8_2" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">03:02, 15 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Southasianhistorian8-20241115030200-Statement_by_Southasianhistorian8_2"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Southasianhistorian8-20241115030200-Statement_by_Southasianhistorian8_2"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Southasianhistorian8-20241118034800-Southasianhistorian8-20241115030200"></span>@<a href="/wiki/User:Black_Kite" title="User:Black Kite">Black Kite</a>, I saw a <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Hardeep_Singh_Nijjar#change_in_lede_of_the_article">thread on the article's t/p</a> in which two editors expressed a desire to move the paragraph about the diplomatic row in the lead of the article. I removed the paragraph from the lead, and intended to move it <i>and expand on it</i> in the body of the article, but was unexpectedly called away before I could. By the time I returned, you had reverted me. In hindsight, I should have made my 2nd intended edit immediately afterwards and linked the t/p discussion, so my apologies for that. <a href="/wiki/User:Southasianhistorian8" title="User:Southasianhistorian8">Southasianhistorian8</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Southasianhistorian8" title="User talk:Southasianhistorian8">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement#c-Southasianhistorian8-20241118034800-Southasianhistorian8-20241115030200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">03:48, 18 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Southasianhistorian8-20241118034800-Southasianhistorian8-20241115030200"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Southasianhistorian8-20241118034800-Southasianhistorian8-20241115030200"></span></dd></dl> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Southasianhistorian8-20241121042000-Statement_by_Southasianhistorian8_2"></span>(End of original statement) </p> <dl><dd><dl><dd><span class="template-ping">@<a href="/wiki/User:Bishonen" title="User:Bishonen">Bishonen</a>:</span>, those year old edit summaries are part of a <i>continuing pattern</i> of Ghost's hostility to anyone who disagrees with him, even as recent. The underlying behaviour hasn't changed at all, he was making inflammatory edit summaries, which SFR acknowledged in the first A/E not too long ago-<a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Canada%E2%80%93India_relations&diff=prev&oldid=1253300634">[38]</a> + <a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Canada%E2%80%93India_relations&action=history">[39]</a>, then right after that he <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Canada%E2%80%93India_diplomatic_row&diff=prev&oldid=1253449989">took a quote from a primary source and framed it in a very inflammatory way (also acknowledged by SFR) to clearly cause irritation</a>. His t/p reveals numerous attacks against people who disagree with him as recent as 2023-<a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:GhostOfDanGurney&diff=prev&oldid=1181175680">ironically it was him who did not have consensus</a> and <a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:GhostOfDanGurney&diff=prev&oldid=1176557150">[40]</a>. He also admitted to messaging Kautilya3 on Twitter after a heated content dispute, which is pretty absurd.</dd> <dd>As for this edit-<a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Hardeep_Singh_Nijjar&diff=prev&oldid=1258026783">[41]</a>, I explicitly stated that it shouldn't have been in the <i>lead</i>-<link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1248585704"><q class="inline-quote-talk">Please gain WP:CONSENSUS to add this to the article's <b>lead</b></q>, in accordance with the t/p discussion. I already apologized for the poor communication on my part here (I should have stated my intention to move and expand the para and linked the t/p discussion) and admit that I should take care to not add WIP edits, but I feel like AGF should apply here, especially when I already apologized and it involves my private life. I'm willing to own up to when I make a mistake.<a href="/wiki/User:Southasianhistorian8" title="User:Southasianhistorian8">Southasianhistorian8</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Southasianhistorian8" title="User talk:Southasianhistorian8">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement#c-Southasianhistorian8-20241121042000-Statement_by_Southasianhistorian8_2" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">04:20, 21 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Southasianhistorian8-20241121042000-Statement_by_Southasianhistorian8_2"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Southasianhistorian8-20241121042000-Statement_by_Southasianhistorian8_2"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Southasianhistorian8-20241121050900-Southasianhistorian8-20241121042000"></span>In all, I think that a good solution to this conflict(s) would be a 2 way IBAN between Ghost and myself, <i>after</i> the DRN or any other consensus building forum has concluded. Our editing seems to primarily intersect at two pages-<a href="/wiki/Hardeep_Singh_Nijjar" title="Hardeep Singh Nijjar">Hardeep Singh Nijjar</a> and <a href="/wiki/Canada-India_diplomatic_row" class="mw-redirect" title="Canada-India diplomatic row">Canada-India diplomatic row</a> out of the many hundreds of pages we've edited, the C-I row is not a page I'm particularly interested in anymore. There may be more developments on those two pages surrounding the ongoing criminal investigation, but that's not something I'm too interested in and will likely not make edits towards. I'm committed to resolving the Nijjar content dispute peacefully through consensus, and I hope Ghost will too, and I'll also commit to avoiding GoDG as much as possible from hereon. <a href="/wiki/User:Southasianhistorian8" title="User:Southasianhistorian8">Southasianhistorian8</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Southasianhistorian8" title="User talk:Southasianhistorian8">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement#c-Southasianhistorian8-20241121050900-Southasianhistorian8-20241121042000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">05:09, 21 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Southasianhistorian8-20241121050900-Southasianhistorian8-20241121042000"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Southasianhistorian8-20241121050900-Southasianhistorian8-20241121042000"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Southasianhistorian8-20241121070400-Southasianhistorian8-20241121050900"></span>@<a href="/wiki/User:Liz" title="User:Liz">Liz</a>, I agree, but a lot of my earlier thoughts/responses were unorganized as this a pretty complicated, high stress dispute. Would me linking my earlier responses be a good solution? <a href="/wiki/User:Southasianhistorian8" title="User:Southasianhistorian8">Southasianhistorian8</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Southasianhistorian8" title="User talk:Southasianhistorian8">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement#c-Southasianhistorian8-20241121070400-Southasianhistorian8-20241121050900" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">07:04, 21 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Southasianhistorian8-20241121070400-Southasianhistorian8-20241121050900"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Southasianhistorian8-20241121070400-Southasianhistorian8-20241121050900"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Southasianhistorian8-20241121071200-Southasianhistorian8-20241121070400"></span>Note: This was my previous statement(s) up until 21 November 4:38 , I substantially altered it for length and because a lot of the responses were spur of the moment/unorganized-<a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement&oldid=1258709728#Statement_by_Southasianhistorian8">[42]</a>. <a href="/wiki/User:Southasianhistorian8" title="User:Southasianhistorian8">Southasianhistorian8</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Southasianhistorian8" title="User talk:Southasianhistorian8">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement#c-Southasianhistorian8-20241121071200-Southasianhistorian8-20241121070400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">07:12, 21 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Southasianhistorian8-20241121071200-Southasianhistorian8-20241121070400"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Southasianhistorian8-20241121071200-Southasianhistorian8-20241121070400"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Southasianhistorian8-20241121101000-Southasianhistorian8-20241121071200"></span>Would also like to point that Bishonen is not an uninvolved administrator and is posting in the wrong section. We've had disagreements in the past regarding a blocked user's sock/meat status-<a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Festivalfalcon873#Unblock_conditions_offered">[43]</a>. That was a case in which I and another administrator believed the blocked account to be a sock, while Bishonen believed them to be a m/p.<a href="/wiki/User:Southasianhistorian8" title="User:Southasianhistorian8">Southasianhistorian8</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Southasianhistorian8" title="User talk:Southasianhistorian8">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement#c-Southasianhistorian8-20241121101000-Southasianhistorian8-20241121071200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">10:10, 21 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Southasianhistorian8-20241121101000-Southasianhistorian8-20241121071200"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Southasianhistorian8-20241121101000-Southasianhistorian8-20241121071200"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Southasianhistorian8-20241121114900-Southasianhistorian8-20241121101000"></span>We've had <b>2</b> disagreements in the past over users alleged to be <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Sockpuppet_investigations/HaughtonBrit/Archive#10_May_2024">HaughtonBrit socks</a> barely a few months ago. In the other case, a user who was initially deemed to be "unrelated" to HaughtonBrit, was later deemed a "possible indicator of sockpuppetry" after my report highlighted significant developments in their editing patterns. I believed the user to be a sock, Bishonen stated that she believed that they weren't. Given the contested nature of the latter disagreement, I dont think Bishonen counts as uninvolved administrator. This is what WP:UNINVOLVED states:<link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1248585704"><q class="inline-quote-talk">Involvement is construed broadly by the community to include current or <b>past</b> conflicts with an editor (or editors), and disputes on topics, <b>regardless of the nature, age, or outcome of the dispute</b>.</q></dd> <dd>The sockmaster in question was also someone whose sock reports sometimes faced significant opposition from admins, and it turned I was correct multiple times-<a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Sockpuppet_investigations/HaughtonBrit&diff=prev&oldid=1136095962">in this case for example, an admin was looking to close my report</a>, and it turned out that the user reported was making numerous edits logged out in violation of their block, which they themselves admitted to on their t/p-<a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:MehmoodS&diff=prev&oldid=1136523307">[44]</a> <a href="/wiki/User:Southasianhistorian8" title="User:Southasianhistorian8">Southasianhistorian8</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Southasianhistorian8" title="User talk:Southasianhistorian8">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement#c-Southasianhistorian8-20241121114900-Southasianhistorian8-20241121101000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">11:49, 21 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Southasianhistorian8-20241121114900-Southasianhistorian8-20241121101000"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Southasianhistorian8-20241121114900-Southasianhistorian8-20241121101000"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Southasianhistorian8-20241121121500-Southasianhistorian8-20241121114900"></span>@<a href="/wiki/User:ScottishFinnishRadish" title="User:ScottishFinnishRadish">ScottishFinnishRadish</a>, could you provide your view on this? <a href="/wiki/User:Southasianhistorian8" title="User:Southasianhistorian8">Southasianhistorian8</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Southasianhistorian8" title="User talk:Southasianhistorian8">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement#c-Southasianhistorian8-20241121121500-Southasianhistorian8-20241121114900" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">12:15, 21 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Southasianhistorian8-20241121121500-Southasianhistorian8-20241121114900"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Southasianhistorian8-20241121121500-Southasianhistorian8-20241121114900"></span> <dl><dd><span class="template-ping"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Southasianhistorian8-20241121124300-Southasianhistorian8-20241121121500"></span>@<a href="/wiki/User:ScottishFinnishRadish" title="User:ScottishFinnishRadish">ScottishFinnishRadish</a>:</span>, I feel like a topic ban is unnecessary. It shouldn't be ignored that this A/E request is primarily based of a content dispute which is currently underway at DRN-<a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard#Zeroth_statements_by_editors_(Hardeep_Singh_Nijjar)">[45]</a>. It should also be highlighted that I provided detailed and policy backed reasons for my proposed changes there, whereas G and Simonm gave curt one sentence responses. Is that not telling? I sincerely request that I be allowed to participate in the consensus building. It should also be noted that I did not edit war anywhere, and am making sincere efforts to gain consensus for my changes.</dd> <dd>I also do a lot of work in cleaning up articles in this topic area, which is inundated with POV pushing, poor sourcing and lackluster content. Could you please consider allowing the DRN to conclude and a later IBAN between me and Ghost? I strongly believe that would cease any further conflicts. <a href="/wiki/User:Southasianhistorian8" title="User:Southasianhistorian8">Southasianhistorian8</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Southasianhistorian8" title="User talk:Southasianhistorian8">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement#c-Southasianhistorian8-20241121124300-Southasianhistorian8-20241121121500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">12:43, 21 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Southasianhistorian8-20241121124300-Southasianhistorian8-20241121121500"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Southasianhistorian8-20241121124300-Southasianhistorian8-20241121121500"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Southasianhistorian8-20241121130000-Southasianhistorian8-20241121124300"></span>I also feel like my inexperience and mistakes at A/E shouldn't dictate the fate of my editing in the Wikipedia mainspace, which are vastly different from each other. The vast majority of my editing in the main space and on talk pages is productive, and I've worked to arrive consensuses consistently over the past 2 years. The dispute between Ghost and myself became so acrimonious and litigious, that it's impossible to handle both discussing on the article t/p, DRN, and handling numerous dogpiles on A/E. Again @<a href="/wiki/User:ScottishFinnishRadish" title="User:ScottishFinnishRadish">ScottishFinnishRadish</a>, please consider an alternative. <a href="/wiki/User:Southasianhistorian8" title="User:Southasianhistorian8">Southasianhistorian8</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Southasianhistorian8" title="User talk:Southasianhistorian8">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement#c-Southasianhistorian8-20241121130000-Southasianhistorian8-20241121124300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">13:00, 21 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Southasianhistorian8-20241121130000-Southasianhistorian8-20241121124300"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Southasianhistorian8-20241121130000-Southasianhistorian8-20241121124300"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Southasianhistorian8-20241121133700-Southasianhistorian8-20241121130000"></span>@<a href="/wiki/User:ScottishFinnishRadish" title="User:ScottishFinnishRadish">ScottishFinnishRadish</a>, could you please let me know if something else other than a topic ban is on the table? Again, I find it punitive when I'm contributing substantially to the DRN and trying to seek a consensus there. Can we at least not see the assessment of other editors in that content dispute and what they make of Ghost and Simon's BLP/coatrack claims? <a href="/wiki/User:Southasianhistorian8" title="User:Southasianhistorian8">Southasianhistorian8</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Southasianhistorian8" title="User talk:Southasianhistorian8">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement#c-Southasianhistorian8-20241121133700-Southasianhistorian8-20241121130000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">13:37, 21 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Southasianhistorian8-20241121133700-Southasianhistorian8-20241121130000"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Southasianhistorian8-20241121133700-Southasianhistorian8-20241121130000"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Southasianhistorian8-20241121143400-Southasianhistorian8-20241121133700"></span>Scratch that. Honestly, after seeing the immense toxicity on this site, where numerous editors dog-pile on you, lob false accusations against you, gaslight you and arm-twist you into believing their falsehoods, and just in general playing favourites with those in their own clique, all to get one over someone else in a content dispute, I've realized that Wikipedia is no longer a suitable place for me.</dd> <dd>I would request an indef site ban for myself, and I do not intend to make any more edits here. <a href="/wiki/User:Southasianhistorian8" title="User:Southasianhistorian8">Southasianhistorian8</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Southasianhistorian8" title="User talk:Southasianhistorian8">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement#c-Southasianhistorian8-20241121143400-Southasianhistorian8-20241121133700" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">14:34, 21 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Southasianhistorian8-20241121143400-Southasianhistorian8-20241121133700"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Southasianhistorian8-20241121143400-Southasianhistorian8-20241121133700"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Southasianhistorian8-20241121163400-Southasianhistorian8-20241121143400"></span>@<a href="/wiki/User:Bishonen" title="User:Bishonen">Bishonen</a> An indef site block would be good, and allow me to start a new chapter in life. <a href="/wiki/User:Southasianhistorian8" title="User:Southasianhistorian8">Southasianhistorian8</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Southasianhistorian8" title="User talk:Southasianhistorian8">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement#c-Southasianhistorian8-20241121163400-Southasianhistorian8-20241121143400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:34, 21 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Southasianhistorian8-20241121163400-Southasianhistorian8-20241121143400"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Southasianhistorian8-20241121163400-Southasianhistorian8-20241121143400"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading4"><h4 id="Statement_by_(103.251.217.66_(talk))" data-mw-thread-id="h-Statement_by_(103.251.217.66_(talk))-Discussion_concerning_Southasianhistorian8"><span id="Statement_by_.28103.251.217.66_.28talk.29.29"></span><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Statement_by_(103.251.217.66_(talk))-Discussion_concerning_Southasianhistorian8"></span>Statement by (<a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/103.251.217.66" title="Special:Contributions/103.251.217.66">103.251.217.66</a> (<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:103.251.217.66&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User talk:103.251.217.66 (page does not exist)">talk</a>))<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Statement_by_(103.251.217.66_(talk))-Discussion_concerning_Southasianhistorian8"></span></h4><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement&action=edit&section=23" title="Edit section: Statement by (103.251.217.66 (talk))"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span></div> <ul><li>I think both needs to calm down. both should talk on the article talk page before making changes to the article and stop reverting changes.</li> <li>I see this is only as content dispute... I don't think Southasianhistorian8 is attacking you op.. <a class="external free" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:GhostOfDanGurney&diff=prev&oldid=1255952101">https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:GhostOfDanGurney&diff=prev&oldid=1255952101</a> you should assume good faith.. and you are also trying gatekeep article it seems to me... <a class="external free" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Canada%E2%80%93India_diplomatic_row#NPOV">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Canada%E2%80%93India_diplomatic_row#NPOV</a></li></ul> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading4"><h4 id="Statement_by_Simonm223" data-mw-thread-id="h-Statement_by_Simonm223-Discussion_concerning_Southasianhistorian8-20241114194600"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Statement_by_Simonm223-Discussion_concerning_Southasianhistorian8-20241114194600"></span>Statement by Simonm223<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Statement_by_Simonm223-Discussion_concerning_Southasianhistorian8-20241114194600"></span></h4><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement&action=edit&section=24" title="Edit section: Statement by Simonm223"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span></div> <p><s><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Simonm223-20241114194600-Statement_by_Simonm223"></span>I would concur that both editors should probably both get some space from each other for a few days. A short-duration 2-way iBan might be a reasonable remedy here.</s> Most of the edits in contention from both editors don't seem disruptive although both could be a bit more careful with sourcing to avoid primary sources and to ensure that secondary sources are included in major edits. The only point of contention I'd take with either's position (as I don't think either is actually entirely <i>wrong</i> so much as operating at cross-purposes) surrounds the interpretation of <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:BLPCRIME" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:BLPCRIME">WP:BLPCRIME</a>. Arsh Dalla is not a public figure per the definition laid out by <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:PUBLICFIGURE" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:PUBLICFIGURE">WP:PUBLICFIGURE</a> because his notoriety is <i>entirely</i> from the circumstances of him having been accused of a crime. As such the guidance, <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1248585704"><q class="inline-quote-talk">editors must seriously consider not including material—in any article—that suggests the person has committed or is accused of having committed a crime, unless a conviction has been secured for that crime</q> very much applies here. <a href="/wiki/User:Simonm223" title="User:Simonm223">Simonm223</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Simonm223" title="User talk:Simonm223">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement#c-Simonm223-20241114194600-Statement_by_Simonm223" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:46, 14 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Simonm223-20241114194600-Statement_by_Simonm223"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Simonm223-20241114194600-Statement_by_Simonm223"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Simonm223-20241114200800-Simonm223-20241114194600"></span>@<a href="/wiki/User:Southasianhistorian8" title="User:Southasianhistorian8">Southasianhistorian8</a> there is a key difference between Bishnoi and Dalla. Bishnoi stood trial and was convicted. My understanding is that Canada has declined to arrest and extradite Dalla. As such, since he is a free person and considered innocent both under Canadian law and by Wikipedia's standards, and since all the media coverage around him is about whether he did any criminal acts, we should not be commenting on him on Wikipedia. I hope this clarifies <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:BLPCRIME" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:BLPCRIME">WP:BLPCRIME</a> for you. <a href="/wiki/User:Simonm223" title="User:Simonm223">Simonm223</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Simonm223" title="User talk:Simonm223">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement#c-Simonm223-20241114200800-Simonm223-20241114194600" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:08, 14 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Simonm223-20241114200800-Simonm223-20241114194600"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Simonm223-20241114200800-Simonm223-20241114194600"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Simonm223-20241114231800-Simonm223-20241114200800"></span>Honestly my attempt to provide some friendly help regarding the BLPCRIME issue has left me a bit more concerned about <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:IDHT" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:IDHT">WP:IDHT</a> than I was at the outset. Especially since <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:OSE" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:OSE">WP:OSE</a> statements do not override BLP policy. <a href="/wiki/User:Simonm223" title="User:Simonm223">Simonm223</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Simonm223" title="User talk:Simonm223">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement#c-Simonm223-20241114231800-Simonm223-20241114200800" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:18, 14 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Simonm223-20241114231800-Simonm223-20241114200800"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Simonm223-20241114231800-Simonm223-20241114200800"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Simonm223-20241121133000-Simonm223-20241114231800"></span>Hopefully my last comment here I just want to apologize to @<a href="/wiki/User:GhostOfDanGurney" title="User:GhostOfDanGurney">GhostOfDanGurney</a> for originally interpreting this as a two-way interaction problem. I saw this and tried to sincerely help Southasianhistorian8 and the result was an ANI complaint, a DRN page and several <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:TLDR" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:TLDR">repetitive textwalls</a>. This is much more of a <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:BATTLEGROUND" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:BATTLEGROUND">WP:BATTLEGROUND</a> situation than I initially assumed with Southasianhistorian8 specifically and, what's worse, they appear to assume any attempt <i>to assist them</i> is an attack. I have struck my initial comments about a 2-way i-ban as I no longer believe that would be an effective remedy. <a href="/wiki/User:Simonm223" title="User:Simonm223">Simonm223</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Simonm223" title="User talk:Simonm223">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement#c-Simonm223-20241121133000-Simonm223-20241114231800" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">13:30, 21 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Simonm223-20241121133000-Simonm223-20241114231800"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Simonm223-20241121133000-Simonm223-20241114231800"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading4"><h4 id="Statement_by_Swatjester" data-mw-thread-id="h-Statement_by_Swatjester-Discussion_concerning_Southasianhistorian8-20241114212400"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Statement_by_Swatjester-Discussion_concerning_Southasianhistorian8-20241114212400"></span>Statement by Swatjester<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Statement_by_Swatjester-Discussion_concerning_Southasianhistorian8-20241114212400"></span></h4><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement&action=edit&section=25" title="Edit section: Statement by Swatjester"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Swatjester-20241114212400-Statement_by_Swatjester"></span>Regardless of which side is correct on the merits of the arguments, it does *not* help SAH's case that they've presented their opposition to Ghost of Dan Gurney in an uncivil and excessively inflammatory manner. <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:ScottishFinnishRadish&diff=prev&oldid=1257410714">"he clearly has an extreme vendetta against and is desperate to hound me off this page"</a> fails to assume good faith. So does accusing them of having "a long history of suppressing any critical information on the page... saw this opportunity and rushed to try to hound me further." Vaguely handwaving at a previous report does not suffice to make that anything less than an aspersion. Saying "I find it reprehensible that this bullying behaviour has carte-blanche on Wikipedia" is both uncivil, inflammatory, and presumes that the behavior is 1) bullying, and 2) has "carte-blanche" despite this AE request existing and there having been discussion about it in multiple talk page forums already. Regardless of how this AE gets decided, I'd admonish SAH to find a more constructive, less inflammatory way of expressing their positions. I think all involved would do well to be reminded that in a contentious topic area you need to be on your best behavior. <a href="/wiki/User:Swatjester" title="User:Swatjester"><span style="color:red">⇒</span></a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Swatjester" title="User talk:Swatjester"><span style="font-family:Serif"><span style="color:black">SWAT</span><span style="color:goldenrod">Jester</span></span></a> <small><sup>Shoot Blues, Tell VileRat!</sup></small> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement#c-Swatjester-20241114212400-Statement_by_Swatjester" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:24, 14 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Swatjester-20241114212400-Statement_by_Swatjester"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Swatjester-20241114212400-Statement_by_Swatjester"></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading4"><h4 id="Statement_by_Black_Kite" data-mw-thread-id="h-Statement_by_Black_Kite-Discussion_concerning_Southasianhistorian8-20241117210400"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Statement_by_Black_Kite-Discussion_concerning_Southasianhistorian8-20241117210400"></span>Statement by Black Kite<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Statement_by_Black_Kite-Discussion_concerning_Southasianhistorian8-20241117210400"></span></h4><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement&action=edit&section=26" title="Edit section: Statement by Black Kite"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Black_Kite-20241117210400-Statement_by_Black_Kite"></span>SAH is still - whilst this AE is continuing <i>and</i> having <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard#Talk:Hardeep_Singh_Nijjar" title="Wikipedia:Dispute resolution noticeboard">started a DRN</a> on the topic themselves - removing sourced and DUE information at <a href="/wiki/Hardeep_Singh_Nijjar" title="Hardeep Singh Nijjar">Hardeep Singh Nijjar</a> <a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Hardeep_Singh_Nijjar&diff=1258026783&oldid=1257312443">[46]</a>. Quite bizarre behaviour, almost like they <i>want</i> to be sanctioned. <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Black_Kite" title="User talk:Black Kite">Black Kite (talk)</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement#c-Black_Kite-20241117210400-Statement_by_Black_Kite" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:04, 17 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Black_Kite-20241117210400-Statement_by_Black_Kite"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Black_Kite-20241117210400-Statement_by_Black_Kite"></span> </p> <ul><li><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Black_Kite-20241121113500-Black_Kite-20241117210400"></span>The claim that Bishonen is not uninvolved here is so ridiculous that it's verging on <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:CIR" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:CIR">WP:CIR</a>. <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Black_Kite" title="User talk:Black Kite">Black Kite (talk)</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement#c-Black_Kite-20241121113500-Black_Kite-20241117210400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">11:35, 21 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Black_Kite-20241121113500-Black_Kite-20241117210400"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Black_Kite-20241121113500-Black_Kite-20241117210400"></span></li></ul> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading4"><h4 id="Statement_by_(username)_2" data-mw-thread-id="h-Statement_by_(username)_2-Discussion_concerning_Southasianhistorian8"><span id="Statement_by_.28username.29_2"></span><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Statement_by_(username)_2-Discussion_concerning_Southasianhistorian8"></span>Statement by (username)<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Statement_by_(username)_2-Discussion_concerning_Southasianhistorian8"></span></h4><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement&action=edit&section=27" title="Edit section: Statement by (username)"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span></div> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading3"><h3 id="Result_concerning_Southasianhistorian8" data-mw-thread-id="h-Result_concerning_Southasianhistorian8-Southasianhistorian8-20241115024300"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Result_concerning_Southasianhistorian8-Southasianhistorian8-20241115024300"></span>Result concerning Southasianhistorian8<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Result_concerning_Southasianhistorian8-Southasianhistorian8-20241115024300"></span></h3><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement&action=edit&section=28" title="Edit section: Result concerning Southasianhistorian8"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span></div> <dl><dd><i><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-ScottishFinnishRadish-20241115024300-Result_concerning_Southasianhistorian8"></span>This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.</i></dd></dl> <ul><li><a href="/wiki/User:Southasianhistorian8" title="User:Southasianhistorian8">Southasianhistorian8</a>, you're at three times your limit and no admins have commented yet. You need to trim about a thousand words. <a href="/wiki/User:ScottishFinnishRadish" title="User:ScottishFinnishRadish">ScottishFinnishRadish</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:ScottishFinnishRadish" title="User talk:ScottishFinnishRadish">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement#c-ScottishFinnishRadish-20241115024300-Result_concerning_Southasianhistorian8" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:43, 15 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-ScottishFinnishRadish-20241115024300-Result_concerning_Southasianhistorian8"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-ScottishFinnishRadish-20241115024300-Result_concerning_Southasianhistorian8"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-ScottishFinnishRadish-20241121005800-ScottishFinnishRadish-20241115024300"></span>I haven't had the time to look into this in-depth, but I plan to in the next couple days. In the meantime, has anyone started a thread at BLPN? <a href="/wiki/User:ScottishFinnishRadish" title="User:ScottishFinnishRadish">ScottishFinnishRadish</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:ScottishFinnishRadish" title="User talk:ScottishFinnishRadish">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement#c-ScottishFinnishRadish-20241121005800-ScottishFinnishRadish-20241115024300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:58, 21 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-ScottishFinnishRadish-20241121005800-ScottishFinnishRadish-20241115024300"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-ScottishFinnishRadish-20241121005800-ScottishFinnishRadish-20241115024300"></span></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-ScottishFinnishRadish-20241121122600-ScottishFinnishRadish-20241115024300"></span>Okay, I've looked into this a bit more, but even based on their behavior at this report, the bludgeoning and walls of text, the incivility, and the retaliatory filing below I'm thinking at least a 3-6 month and 500 edit topic ban for tendentious editing with the hope that it will be enough of a sanction that their behavior will be better when they return. I'm also open to an indef topic ban if other admins believe that they should have to offer some proof of constructive editing to return to the topic area.</dd> <dd><a href="/wiki/User:Bishonen" title="User:Bishonen">Bishonen</a>, what SAH linked to was a discussion of your administrative actions and fulfilling <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:ADMINACCT" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:ADMINACCT">WP:ADMINACCT</a> does not make you involved. I don't see any issues with involvement here. <a href="/wiki/User:ScottishFinnishRadish" title="User:ScottishFinnishRadish">ScottishFinnishRadish</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:ScottishFinnishRadish" title="User talk:ScottishFinnishRadish">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement#c-ScottishFinnishRadish-20241121122600-ScottishFinnishRadish-20241115024300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">12:26, 21 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-ScottishFinnishRadish-20241121122600-ScottishFinnishRadish-20241115024300"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-ScottishFinnishRadish-20241121122600-ScottishFinnishRadish-20241115024300"></span></dd></dl></li> <li><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Ivanvector-20241116153500-Result_concerning_Southasianhistorian8"></span>This seems like a plain dispute over interpretation of BLPCRIME with respect to an edit that was made <i>yesterday</i>, but instead of a discussion at <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:BLPN" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:BLPN">WP:BLPN</a>, there are three enforcement threads visible on this page and another at <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:AN" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:AN">WP:AN</a>. Perhaps the editors involved should try BLPN first, or other forms of <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:DR" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:DR">dispute resolution</a>, instead of running here to get each other banned? <a href="/wiki/User:Ivanvector" title="User:Ivanvector">Ivanvector</a> (<sup><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Ivanvector" title="User talk:Ivanvector">Talk</a></sup>/<sub><a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Ivanvector" title="Special:Contributions/Ivanvector">Edits</a></sub>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement#c-Ivanvector-20241116153500-Result_concerning_Southasianhistorian8" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:35, 16 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Ivanvector-20241116153500-Result_concerning_Southasianhistorian8"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Ivanvector-20241116153500-Result_concerning_Southasianhistorian8"></span></li> <li><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Voorts-20241121030900-Result_concerning_Southasianhistorian8"></span>I encouraged these editors to take their dispute to DRN. I think everyone needs to de-escalate, step away from the article, and let the process at DRN play out. If that fails and this acrimony continues, IBANs, TBANs, or page restrictions might be needed. <a href="/wiki/User:Voorts" title="User:Voorts">voorts</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Voorts" title="User talk:Voorts">talk</a>/<a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Voorts" title="Special:Contributions/Voorts">contributions</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement#c-Voorts-20241121030900-Result_concerning_Southasianhistorian8" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">03:09, 21 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Voorts-20241121030900-Result_concerning_Southasianhistorian8"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Voorts-20241121030900-Result_concerning_Southasianhistorian8"></span></li> <li><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Bishonen-20241121040000-Result_concerning_Southasianhistorian8"></span>I also haven't had time to research this properly, but I've noticed without difficulty that SAH's behaviour on this very page is poor. SAH, you point out that GhostOfDanGurney told someone to go fuck themselves <i>in 2018</i>, (near the beginning of their Wikipedia career) called somebody else a thot in the same year, and you "strongly urge admins to issue a block for these juvenile insults". A block? Six years after the fact? Please don't air ancient history at AE, especially when it has nothing to do with the matter in hand. I see you offer the same diffs and others from your historical collection in the retaliatory report below, too. I'm also interested to see <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement#c-Southasianhistorian8-20241118034800-Southasianhistorian8-20241115030200">your explanation</a> of Black Kite's point that <i>during</i> this AE, you removed sourced and DUE information at <a href="/wiki/Hardeep_Singh_Nijjar" title="Hardeep Singh Nijjar">Hardeep Singh Nijjar</a>, 'almost like [you] <i>want</i> to be sanctioned'. You explain that two editors on Talk wanted to "move" the information, and therefore you <b>re</b>-moved it, intending to move it to the body and even, virtuously, expand on it there, but were interrupted at this very point. This statement of yours flies in the face of a) your edit summary for the removal,<a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Hardeep_Singh_Nijjar&diff=1258026783&oldid=1257312443">[47]</a> and b) what you yourself said about it on Talk.<a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Hardeep_Singh_Nijjar&diff=prev&oldid=1258042974">[48]</a> In view of that, the drama where you are "unexpectedly called away" is unfortunately not credible. <a href="/wiki/User:Bishonen" title="User:Bishonen">Bishonen</a> | <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Bishonen" title="User talk:Bishonen">tålk</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement#c-Bishonen-20241121040000-Result_concerning_Southasianhistorian8" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">04:00, 21 November 2024 (UTC)</a>.<span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Bishonen-20241121040000-Result_concerning_Southasianhistorian8"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Bishonen-20241121040000-Result_concerning_Southasianhistorian8"></span></li> <li><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Liz-20241121065700-Result_concerning_Southasianhistorian8"></span>Just noting that I think Southasianhistorian8 has rewritten much of their statement here today. Many comments others have referred to are now absent from their statement. I know that the length of their content was a concern but I don't think a participant should basically rewrite their original statement in response to other editors' complaints. It's confusing when one tries to understand the flow of the discussion. <span style="font-family:Papyrus; color:#800080;"><a href="/wiki/User:Liz" title="User:Liz"><i><b>L</b></i>iz</a></span> <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;"><a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Liz" title="Special:Contributions/Liz"><i><b>Read!</b></i></a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Liz" title="User talk:Liz"><i><b>Talk!</b></i></a></sup> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement#c-Liz-20241121065700-Result_concerning_Southasianhistorian8" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">06:57, 21 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Liz-20241121065700-Result_concerning_Southasianhistorian8"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Liz-20241121065700-Result_concerning_Southasianhistorian8"></span></li></ul> <dl><dd><ul><li><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Bishonen-20241121091500-Liz-20241121065700"></span>Yes, indeed they have, and that's not acceptable. Before I commented, I counted SAH's words to see if they had complied with shortening their statement. Yes, they had, it was 554 words. Then, after I had complained about poor behaviour, specifically asking admins to block G over ancient diffs, and trying to explain away Black Kite's complaint of disruption during this case, they "<link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1248585704"><q class="inline-quote-talk">substantially altered it for length and because a lot of the responses were spur of the moment/unorganized</q>". That's one way of putting it. Another would be that after my criticism and Simon223's, they removed the things we criticized. That's unacceptable on talkpages, and just as unacceptable here. Linking to the old version doesn't help much. You simply shouldn't have done it. I have restored the version I commented on, with a link to your new, massaged, less "spur of the moment" version. The time to think is before you post here, not after people have told you what's wrong with it. Note, if you decide to no longer offer an argument that's been criticized, you may of course disown it. But that's done by <s>crossing it out, like this</s>. <i>Not</i> by removing it. <a href="/wiki/User:Bishonen" title="User:Bishonen">Bishonen</a> | <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Bishonen" title="User talk:Bishonen">tålk</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement#c-Bishonen-20241121091500-Liz-20241121065700" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">09:15, 21 November 2024 (UTC)</a>.<span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Bishonen-20241121091500-Liz-20241121065700"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Bishonen-20241121091500-Liz-20241121065700"></span></li></ul> <dl><dd><dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Bishonen-20241121112900-Bishonen-20241121091500"></span>SAH now <a href="/wiki/Special:Diff/1258734826/1258741464" title="Special:Diff/1258734826/1258741464">suggests</a> I'm not an uninvolved admin. I think I am, and I hope one or more admin/user here will please follow SAH's link to evaluate this putative involvement. <a href="/wiki/User:Bishonen" title="User:Bishonen">Bishonen</a> | <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Bishonen" title="User talk:Bishonen">tålk</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement#c-Bishonen-20241121112900-Bishonen-20241121091500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">11:29, 21 November 2024 (UTC)</a>.<span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Bishonen-20241121112900-Bishonen-20241121091500"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Bishonen-20241121112900-Bishonen-20241121091500"></span> <dl><dd><a href="/wiki/User:ScottishFinnishRadish" title="User:ScottishFinnishRadish"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Bishonen-20241121132200-Bishonen-20241121112900"></span>ScottishFinnishRadish</a>, I'm not sure what the "500 edit" means in your proposed t-ban? <a href="/wiki/User:Bishonen" title="User:Bishonen">Bishonen</a> | <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Bishonen" title="User talk:Bishonen">tålk</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement#c-Bishonen-20241121132200-Bishonen-20241121112900" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">13:22, 21 November 2024 (UTC)</a>.<span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Bishonen-20241121132200-Bishonen-20241121112900"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Bishonen-20241121132200-Bishonen-20241121112900"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-ScottishFinnishRadish-20241121133100-Bishonen-20241121132200"></span>The need to both wait 3 or 6 months <i>and</i> make 500 edits outside of the topic area. This way they have to demonstrate constructive editing elsewhere rather than waiting out the tban. <a href="/wiki/User:ScottishFinnishRadish" title="User:ScottishFinnishRadish">ScottishFinnishRadish</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:ScottishFinnishRadish" title="User talk:ScottishFinnishRadish">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement#c-ScottishFinnishRadish-20241121133100-Bishonen-20241121132200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">13:31, 21 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-ScottishFinnishRadish-20241121133100-Bishonen-20241121132200"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-ScottishFinnishRadish-20241121133100-Bishonen-20241121132200"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <ul><li><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Ealdgyth-20241121140300-Result_concerning_Southasianhistorian8"></span>I am good with SFR's suggested 3 or 6 months (I lean 6) topic ban AND making 500 substantial edits outside the topic area (by "substantial" I mean not just adding commas or moving around stuff, but engaging with content and showing that they understand how to use reliable sources and how to edit collaboratively) <a href="/wiki/User:Ealdgyth" title="User:Ealdgyth">Ealdgyth</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Ealdgyth" title="User talk:Ealdgyth">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement#c-Ealdgyth-20241121140300-Result_concerning_Southasianhistorian8" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">14:03, 21 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Ealdgyth-20241121140300-Result_concerning_Southasianhistorian8"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Ealdgyth-20241121140300-Result_concerning_Southasianhistorian8"></span></li> <li><b><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Bishonen-20241121160300-Result_concerning_Southasianhistorian8"></span>Indef now?</b> In view of <a href="/wiki/Special:Diff/1258766669" title="Special:Diff/1258766669">this post</a> by SAH, is it time for an indef block? Or (my preference) should we instead give them a chance to calm down? <a href="/wiki/User:Bishonen" title="User:Bishonen">Bishonen</a> | <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Bishonen" title="User talk:Bishonen">tålk</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement#c-Bishonen-20241121160300-Result_concerning_Southasianhistorian8" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:03, 21 November 2024 (UTC)</a>.<span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Bishonen-20241121160300-Result_concerning_Southasianhistorian8"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Bishonen-20241121160300-Result_concerning_Southasianhistorian8"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-ScottishFinnishRadish-20241121163900-Bishonen-20241121160300"></span>I would give them a chance to calm down. <a href="/wiki/User:ScottishFinnishRadish" title="User:ScottishFinnishRadish">ScottishFinnishRadish</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:ScottishFinnishRadish" title="User talk:ScottishFinnishRadish">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement#c-ScottishFinnishRadish-20241121163900-Bishonen-20241121160300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:39, 21 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-ScottishFinnishRadish-20241121163900-Bishonen-20241121160300"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-ScottishFinnishRadish-20241121163900-Bishonen-20241121160300"></span></dd></dl></li> <li><a href="/wiki/User:Southasianhistorian8" title="User:Southasianhistorian8"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Liz-20241122043300-Result_concerning_Southasianhistorian8"></span>Southasianhistorian8</a>, you don't need to quit editing or be indefinitely blocked. You just have to continue to be a productive editor without getting yourself into disputes. I don't see any favoritism here in this discussion. But when I look over your most recent 200 edits in your contribution history, almost all have to do with arguments with other editors. Can you coexist with editors you don't agree with? That's what the rest of us do. And, believe me, there are longtime editors here who have had disagreements with each other that are deeper and longer-lasting than your dispute with GhostOfDanGurney...we just keep a distance between us and do not provoke each other. Remember, this is not just an editing project but a collaborative one so you have to be able to collaborate even when not agreeing. Can you do that? <span style="font-family:Papyrus; color:#800080;"><a href="/wiki/User:Liz" title="User:Liz"><i><b>L</b></i>iz</a></span> <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;"><a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Liz" title="Special:Contributions/Liz"><i><b>Read!</b></i></a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Liz" title="User talk:Liz"><i><b>Talk!</b></i></a></sup> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement#c-Liz-20241122043300-Result_concerning_Southasianhistorian8" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">04:33, 22 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Liz-20241122043300-Result_concerning_Southasianhistorian8"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Liz-20241122043300-Result_concerning_Southasianhistorian8"></span></li></ul> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="GhostOfDanGurney" data-mw-thread-id="h-GhostOfDanGurney-20241115040300"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-GhostOfDanGurney-20241115040300"></span>GhostOfDanGurney<span data-mw-comment-end="h-GhostOfDanGurney-20241115040300"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement&action=edit&section=29" title="Edit section: GhostOfDanGurney"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-ScottishFinnishRadish-20241121121700-GhostOfDanGurney"></span><link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1256395271"> <table class="hidden-archive mw-collapsible mw-archivedtalk mw-collapsed"> <tbody><tr> <th class="hat-header">No action, being looked into in another report. <a href="/wiki/User:ScottishFinnishRadish" title="User:ScottishFinnishRadish">ScottishFinnishRadish</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:ScottishFinnishRadish" title="User talk:ScottishFinnishRadish">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement#c-ScottishFinnishRadish-20241121121700-GhostOfDanGurney" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">12:17, 21 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-ScottishFinnishRadish-20241121121700-GhostOfDanGurney"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-ScottishFinnishRadish-20241121121700-GhostOfDanGurney"></span> </th></tr> <tr> <td style="font-style:italic;">The following discussion has been closed. <span style="color:var(--color-error, red);"><b>Please do not modify it.</b></span> </td></tr> <tr> <td class="hat-content"> <p><small><i>This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. <br/>Requests may not exceed 500 <a href="/wiki/Word_count#Software" title="Word count">words</a> and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.</i></small> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading3"><h3 id="Request_concerning_GhostOfDanGurney" data-mw-thread-id="h-Request_concerning_GhostOfDanGurney-GhostOfDanGurney-20241115040300"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Request_concerning_GhostOfDanGurney-GhostOfDanGurney-20241115040300"></span>Request concerning GhostOfDanGurney<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Request_concerning_GhostOfDanGurney-GhostOfDanGurney-20241115040300"></span></h3><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement&action=edit&section=30" title="Edit section: Request concerning GhostOfDanGurney"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span></div> <dl><dt><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Southasianhistorian8-20241115040300-Request_concerning_GhostOfDanGurney"></span>User who is submitting this request for enforcement</dt> <dd><a href="/wiki/User:Southasianhistorian8" title="User:Southasianhistorian8">Southasianhistorian8</a> <span class="plainlinks">(<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Southasianhistorian8" title="User talk:Southasianhistorian8">talk</a> <b>·</b> <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Southasianhistorian8" title="Special:Contributions/Southasianhistorian8">contribs</a> <b>·</b> <a href="/wiki/Special:DeletedContributions/Southasianhistorian8" title="Special:DeletedContributions/Southasianhistorian8">deleted contribs</a> <b>·</b> <a href="/wiki/Special:Log/Southasianhistorian8" title="Special:Log/Southasianhistorian8">logs</a> <b>·</b> <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3AAbuseLog&wpSearchUser=Southasianhistorian8">filter log</a> <b>·</b> <a href="/wiki/Special:Block/Southasianhistorian8" title="Special:Block/Southasianhistorian8">block user</a> <b>·</b> <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3ALog%2Fblock&page=User%3ASouthasianhistorian8">block log</a>)</span> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement#c-Southasianhistorian8-20241115040300-Request_concerning_GhostOfDanGurney" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">04:03, 15 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Southasianhistorian8-20241115040300-Request_concerning_GhostOfDanGurney"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Southasianhistorian8-20241115040300-Request_concerning_GhostOfDanGurney"></span></dd></dl> <dl><dt><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Southasianhistorian8-20241115045500-Request_concerning_GhostOfDanGurney"></span>User against whom enforcement is requested</dt> <dd><a href="/wiki/User:GhostOfDanGurney" title="User:GhostOfDanGurney">GhostOfDanGurney</a> <span class="plainlinks">(<a href="/wiki/User_talk:GhostOfDanGurney" title="User talk:GhostOfDanGurney">talk</a> <b>·</b> <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/GhostOfDanGurney" title="Special:Contributions/GhostOfDanGurney">contribs</a> <b>·</b> <a href="/wiki/Special:DeletedContributions/GhostOfDanGurney" title="Special:DeletedContributions/GhostOfDanGurney">deleted contribs</a> <b>·</b> <a href="/wiki/Special:Log/GhostOfDanGurney" title="Special:Log/GhostOfDanGurney">logs</a> <b>·</b> <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3AAbuseLog&wpSearchUser=GhostOfDanGurney">filter log</a> <b>·</b> <a href="/wiki/Special:Block/GhostOfDanGurney" title="Special:Block/GhostOfDanGurney">block user</a> <b>·</b> <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3ALog%2Fblock&page=User%3AGhostOfDanGurney">block log</a>)</span><p><span class="plainlinks">Search CT alerts<a href="/wiki/Template:Contentious_topics/log" title="Template:Contentious topics/log">:</a> <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:GhostOfDanGurney&action=history&tagfilter=contentious+topics+alert">in user talk history</a> • <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:AbuseLog&wpSearchFilter=602&wpSearchTitle=User+talk%3AGhostOfDanGurney">in system log</a></span></p></dd></dl> <p><br/> </p> <dl><dt>Sanction or remedy to be enforced</dt> <dd>Topic ban on India, Pakistan, and Afghanistan related topics.</dd></dl> <dl><dt><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:DIFF" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:DIFF">Diffs</a> of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation <i>how</i> these edits violate it</dt> <dd></dd></dl> <ol><li><a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Air_India_Flight_182&diff=prev&oldid=1176135567">19 September 2023</a> Tendentious edit warring alleging "anti-Canada POV pushing" despite numerous editors' objections and RS</li> <li><a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?diff=1181222775">21 October 2023</a> Admits to harassing another user he was in a content dispute with on Twitter.</li> <li><a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Canada%E2%80%93India_relations&diff=prev&oldid=1253300634">25 October 2024</a> <s>Personal attacks</s> Inflammatory edit summary, accusing of cherrypicking and being without evidence, even though most of the article included content for which evidence was not publicly disclosed and WP:OWN behaviour</li> <li><a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Canada%E2%80%93India_relations&diff=prev&oldid=1252677040">22 October 2024</a> More <s>personal attacks</s> inflammatory edit summaries, also acknolwedged by ScottishFinnishRadish in the 1st AE</li> <li><a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Canada%E2%80%93India_diplomatic_row&diff=prev&oldid=1253449989">26 October 2024</a> Replaces neutrally worded sentence with an inflammatory and tendentious interpretation of a primary source as acknowledged by ScottishFinnishRadish, clearly attempting to publicly discredit the diplomat, thus violating WP:BLP. Also a clear case of WP:HOUNDING and WP:OWN behaviour. (Also the impetus to this while conflict)</li> <li><a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement#Southasianhistorian8">26 October 2024</a> Files an A/E request over a content dispute, wasting a large amount of community time</li> <li><a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement&diff=prev&oldid=1253480401">26 October 2024</a> Falsely claimed I plagiarized his work</li> <li><a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Hardeep_Singh_Nijjar&diff=prev&oldid=1257477980">15 November 2024</a> WP:IDHT, brazenly ignoring sources right above him which explicitly state that Dalla's alleged criminal network was linked to Khalistani militancy</li> <li><a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Southasianhistorian8&diff=prev&oldid=1257317133">14 November 2024</a> Makes an inflammatory and condescending post on my talk page, accusing me of WP:NPOV violations and threatening to escalate matters before engaging on the t/p.</li> <li><a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement&diff=prev&oldid=1257383186">14 November 2024</a> Files another A/E request days after his first failed one over 1(!) revert and me responding to his escalation on my t/p. Instead of following WP:BRD, Ghost is filing frivolous reports forcing this platform to be a substitute for content issues. He did not engage with my arguments on the t/p of the Nijjar page which I laid out right after he reverted me, instead he immediately filed a 2nd report, then waited multiple hours to respond to my points on the t/p. He cannot even abide by Wikipedia's most fundamental policy which is to <b>discuss</b> when you have a disagreement with someone, not intimidate them through reports.</li> <li><a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement&diff=prev&oldid=1257467026">15 November 2024</a> Falsely claimed I was in violation of edit warring, citing a total of <b>one</b> revert.</li> <li><a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement&diff=prev&oldid=1258667371">20 November 2024</a> Further exhibits bizarre, unprovoked aggression despite a <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard&diff=prev&oldid=1258627850">DRN being underway</a>, where editors are expected to try to reach a consensus civilly.</li></ol> <dl><dt>Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any</dt> <dd></dd></dl> <ol><li><a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:GhostOfDanGurney&diff=prev&oldid=972926748">14 August 2020</a> Blocked for personal attacks</li> <li><a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:GhostOfDanGurney&diff=prev&oldid=846612788">19 June 2018</a> Blocked for edit warring</li></ol> <dl><dt>If <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Contentious_topics" title="Wikipedia:Contentious topics">contentious topics restrictions</a> are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:CTOP#Awareness_of_contentious_topics" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:CTOP">WP:CTOP#Awareness of contentious topics</a>)</dt> <dd></dd></dl> <ul><li>Previously given a discretionary sanction or contentious topic restriction or warned for conduct in the area of conflict on <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:GhostOfDanGurney&diff=prev&oldid=1181174355">21 October 2023</a> by <span class="plainlinks"><a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Kautilya3">Kautilya3</a></span>.</li> <li>Gave CTOPS warning in this topic area on <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:%E0%A4%B0%E0%A4%BE%E0%A4%9C%E0%A4%95%E0%A5%81%E0%A4%AE%E0%A4%BE%E0%A4%B0&diff=prev&oldid=1252075237">19 October 2024</a></li></ul> <dl><dt>Additional comments by editor filing complaint</dt> <dd></dd></dl> <p>GhostOfDanGurney has a history of being incredibly rude and juvenile when engaged in content disputes. He regularly calls people names, assumes bad faith or incites drama through his inflammatory bheaviour-<a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:GhostOfDanGurney&diff=prev&oldid=839161588">Be gone thot</a>, <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:GhostOfDanGurney&diff=prev&oldid=1052051049">Actually, I'll let people see how much of a hypocrite you are for posting this fucking bullshit.</a>, <a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:GhostOfDanGurney&diff=prev&oldid=1041986090">[49]</a>, <a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:GhostOfDanGurney&diff=prev&oldid=846616405">[50]</a>, <a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:GhostOfDanGurney&diff=prev&oldid=1176557150">[51]</a>, <a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:GhostOfDanGurney&diff=prev&oldid=1181175680">[52]</a>, among numerous other diffs. Constantly exhibits tendentious and WP:OWN behaviour in articles-<a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Canada%E2%80%93India_diplomatic_row&diff=prev&oldid=1253449989">[53]</a>, <a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Canada%E2%80%93India_relations&diff=prev&oldid=1253300634">[54]</a>, <a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Hardeep_Singh_Nijjar&diff=prev&oldid=1257312443">[55]</a> + <a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?diff=1096595768">[56]</a>, <a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?diff=1089463806">[57]</a>, <a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?diff=1090979909">[58]</a>. </p> <dl><dd>Even barring the personal attacks, how is it fair that he's non stop filing frivolous reports against me-in the most recent A/E he filed, it was literally over one revert, content he personally didn't like, and me responding to his escalation on my t/p (pretty ironic considering what he says on his own t/p). Instead of engaging with my points on the article's t/p, he filed a 2nd A/E. How is that not brazen harassment and bullying and a major waste of time? How in the world is that not a weaponization of A/E to get one over an editor they dislike? <a href="/wiki/User:Southasianhistorian8" title="User:Southasianhistorian8">Southasianhistorian8</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Southasianhistorian8" title="User talk:Southasianhistorian8">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement#c-Southasianhistorian8-20241115045500-Request_concerning_GhostOfDanGurney" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">04:55, 15 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Southasianhistorian8-20241115045500-Request_concerning_GhostOfDanGurney"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Southasianhistorian8-20241115045500-Request_concerning_GhostOfDanGurney"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Southasianhistorian8-20241115073800-Southasianhistorian8-20241115045500"></span>@<a href="/wiki/User:GhostOfDanGurney" title="User:GhostOfDanGurney">GhostOfDanGurney</a> The definition of militancy is as follows: "the use of confrontational or violent methods in support of a political or social cause." Militancy almost always involves criminal behaviour and actions, does it not? Otherwise it wouldn't be called militancy, it'd be called activism. A criminal network alleged to be close the Khalistan movement apparently does not mean violent actions taken out in order to support the movement? <a href="/wiki/User:Southasianhistorian8" title="User:Southasianhistorian8">Southasianhistorian8</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Southasianhistorian8" title="User talk:Southasianhistorian8">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement#c-Southasianhistorian8-20241115073800-Southasianhistorian8-20241115045500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">07:38, 15 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Southasianhistorian8-20241115073800-Southasianhistorian8-20241115045500"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Southasianhistorian8-20241115073800-Southasianhistorian8-20241115045500"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Southasianhistorian8-20241120233000-Southasianhistorian8-20241115073800"></span>@<a href="/wiki/User:GhostOfDanGurney" title="User:GhostOfDanGurney">GhostOfDanGurney</a> <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Contributions/GhostOfDanGurney&target=GhostOfDanGurney&offset=20241118032954">your A/E request against me</a>- stated that I have a WP:LISTENing (IDHT) problem. Please give me examples in the past 2 years where I <i>specifically</i> acted against or ignored <b>community consensus</b> in terms of a content dispute. If you are unable to do so, it'll be overly clear that you're just throwing anything on the wall against me, as a substitute for engaging on the t/p, despite yourself<b> far more </b>being guilty of the same accusations you throw out. <a href="/wiki/User:Southasianhistorian8" title="User:Southasianhistorian8">Southasianhistorian8</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Southasianhistorian8" title="User talk:Southasianhistorian8">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement#c-Southasianhistorian8-20241120233000-Southasianhistorian8-20241115073800" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:30, 20 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Southasianhistorian8-20241120233000-Southasianhistorian8-20241115073800"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Southasianhistorian8-20241120233000-Southasianhistorian8-20241115073800"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Southasianhistorian8-20241120233300-Southasianhistorian8-20241120233000"></span>Now that a DRN is underway, it would be nice for you to at least temporarily stop inciting conflict and work towards a consensus there. If you are unable to do so, admins should issue an immediate block for failing to discuss despite initiating a content dispute and battleground behaviour. <a href="/wiki/User:Southasianhistorian8" title="User:Southasianhistorian8">Southasianhistorian8</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Southasianhistorian8" title="User talk:Southasianhistorian8">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement#c-Southasianhistorian8-20241120233300-Southasianhistorian8-20241120233000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:33, 20 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Southasianhistorian8-20241120233300-Southasianhistorian8-20241120233000"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Southasianhistorian8-20241120233300-Southasianhistorian8-20241120233000"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Southasianhistorian8-20241121000400-Southasianhistorian8-20241120233300"></span>@<a href="/wiki/User:GhostOfDanGurney" title="User:GhostOfDanGurney">GhostOfDanGurney</a>, an A/E report was well overdue given your lengthy and egregious WP:OWN and inflammatory conduct on various articles. You constantly using this platform as a substitute for BRD pushed it over the edge, <i>and in of itself is sanctionable.</i> The desperation to bar anyone from examining his atrocious conduct is telling. <a href="/wiki/User:Southasianhistorian8" title="User:Southasianhistorian8">Southasianhistorian8</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Southasianhistorian8" title="User talk:Southasianhistorian8">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement#c-Southasianhistorian8-20241121000400-Southasianhistorian8-20241120233300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:04, 21 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Southasianhistorian8-20241121000400-Southasianhistorian8-20241120233300"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Southasianhistorian8-20241121000400-Southasianhistorian8-20241120233300"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <dl><dt>Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested</dt> <dd><a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:GhostOfDanGurney&diff=prev&oldid=1257487887">[59]</a></dd></dl> <p><br/> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading3"><h3 id="Discussion_concerning_GhostOfDanGurney" data-mw-thread-id="h-Discussion_concerning_GhostOfDanGurney-GhostOfDanGurney-20241115071800"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Discussion_concerning_GhostOfDanGurney-GhostOfDanGurney-20241115071800"></span>Discussion concerning GhostOfDanGurney<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Discussion_concerning_GhostOfDanGurney-GhostOfDanGurney-20241115071800"></span></h3><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement&action=edit&section=31" title="Edit section: Discussion concerning GhostOfDanGurney"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span></div> <p><small><i>Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 <a href="/wiki/Word_count#Software" title="Word count">words</a> and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.<br/>Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.</i></small> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading4"><h4 id="Statement_by_GhostOfDanGurney" data-mw-thread-id="h-Statement_by_GhostOfDanGurney-Discussion_concerning_GhostOfDanGurney-20241115071800"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Statement_by_GhostOfDanGurney-Discussion_concerning_GhostOfDanGurney-20241115071800"></span>Statement by GhostOfDanGurney<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Statement_by_GhostOfDanGurney-Discussion_concerning_GhostOfDanGurney-20241115071800"></span></h4><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement&action=edit&section=32" title="Edit section: Statement by GhostOfDanGurney"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-GhostOfDanGurney-20241115071800-Statement_by_GhostOfDanGurney"></span>In their statement in the above request against them, they said, <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1248585704"><q class="inline-quote-talk">"He has yet to engage in the t/p of the article where I laid out sources and arguments"</q>. So I commented on the talk page,<a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Hardeep_Singh_Nijjar&diff=prev&oldid=1257477980">[60]</a> saying that I opposed the content as (in addition to the BLPCRIME issue) there was already adequate sourced content on <a href="/wiki/Hardeep_Singh_Nijjar#Allegations_of_militant_activity" title="Hardeep Singh Nijjar">Hardeep Singh Nijjar#Allegations of militant activity</a> (it's already the largest section of the article). This had nothing to do with the additional sources SAH presented to the talk page after I had removed the content. </p><p>I then wrote a sentence on the wording "criminal network" as used by SAH in their <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1248585704"><q class="inline-quote-talk">>greentext</q> proposal which made no corroboration to any militancy, just allusions to "gangsters". It did not mention the KTF by name, and the preceding quote they posted only mentions "the Khalistan cause". An IDHT charge here is a <i>long</i> stretch that shows a misunderstanding of the policy, and to use the phrase <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1248585704"><q class="inline-quote-talk">"brazenly ignoring"</q> here is an assumption of bad faith. If my above request doesn't result in sanctions against SAH, this frivolous request should. ―<span style="background:#368ec9;border:solid 2px;border-radius:5px"> <i><b><a href="/wiki/User_talk:GhostOfDanGurney" title="User talk:GhostOfDanGurney"><span style="color:white">"Ghost of Dan Gurney" (talk)</span></a></b></i> </span> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement#c-GhostOfDanGurney-20241115071800-Statement_by_GhostOfDanGurney" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">07:18, 15 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-GhostOfDanGurney-20241115071800-Statement_by_GhostOfDanGurney"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-GhostOfDanGurney-20241115071800-Statement_by_GhostOfDanGurney"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-GhostOfDanGurney-20241115083200-GhostOfDanGurney-20241115071800"></span>What does any of that re: militancy have to do with me <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1248585704"><q class="inline-quote-talk">"act[ing] as though [my] point must be accepted by the community when [I] have been told otherwise."</q>, per <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:IDHT" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:IDHT">WP:IDHT</a>? I don't understand at all how my talk page comment violates IDHT. What about that specific comment is actionable here? ―<span style="background:#368ec9;border:solid 2px;border-radius:5px"> <i><b><a href="/wiki/User_talk:GhostOfDanGurney" title="User talk:GhostOfDanGurney"><span style="color:white">"Ghost of Dan Gurney" (talk)</span></a></b></i> </span> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement#c-GhostOfDanGurney-20241115083200-GhostOfDanGurney-20241115071800" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">08:32, 15 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-GhostOfDanGurney-20241115083200-GhostOfDanGurney-20241115071800"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-GhostOfDanGurney-20241115083200-GhostOfDanGurney-20241115071800"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-GhostOfDanGurney-20241120224700-GhostOfDanGurney-20241115083200"></span>Is SAH is unable or unwilling to answer the above question, this retaliatory attempt at a <i><a href="/wiki/Tu_quoque" title="Tu quoque">tu quoque</a></i> style of ad hominem should be closed with a <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:BOOMERANG" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:BOOMERANG">WP:BOOMERANG</a>. ―<span style="background:#368ec9;border:solid 2px;border-radius:5px"> <i><b><a href="/wiki/User_talk:GhostOfDanGurney" title="User talk:GhostOfDanGurney"><span style="color:white">"Ghost of Dan Gurney" (talk)</span></a></b></i> </span> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement#c-GhostOfDanGurney-20241120224700-GhostOfDanGurney-20241115083200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:47, 20 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-GhostOfDanGurney-20241120224700-GhostOfDanGurney-20241115083200"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-GhostOfDanGurney-20241120224700-GhostOfDanGurney-20241115083200"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-GhostOfDanGurney-20241120234500-GhostOfDanGurney-20241120224700"></span>That's twice now I've asked this question and gotten no response. It's obvious that this retaliatory request is a backdoor way to get around the 500-word limit that you ignored before <span class="template-ping">@<a href="/wiki/User:ScottishFinnishRadish" title="User:ScottishFinnishRadish">ScottishFinnishRadish</a>:</span> told you to trim it. ―<span style="background:#368ec9;border:solid 2px;border-radius:5px"> <i><b><a href="/wiki/User_talk:GhostOfDanGurney" title="User talk:GhostOfDanGurney"><span style="color:white">"Ghost of Dan Gurney" (talk)</span></a></b></i> </span> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement#c-GhostOfDanGurney-20241120234500-GhostOfDanGurney-20241120224700" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:45, 20 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-GhostOfDanGurney-20241120234500-GhostOfDanGurney-20241120224700"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-GhostOfDanGurney-20241120234500-GhostOfDanGurney-20241120224700"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading4"><h4 id="Statement_by_(username)_3" data-mw-thread-id="h-Statement_by_(username)_3-Discussion_concerning_GhostOfDanGurney"><span id="Statement_by_.28username.29_3"></span><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Statement_by_(username)_3-Discussion_concerning_GhostOfDanGurney"></span>Statement by (username)<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Statement_by_(username)_3-Discussion_concerning_GhostOfDanGurney"></span></h4><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement&action=edit&section=33" title="Edit section: Statement by (username)"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span></div> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading3"><h3 id="Result_concerning_GhostOfDanGurney" data-mw-thread-id="h-Result_concerning_GhostOfDanGurney-GhostOfDanGurney-20241115042200"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Result_concerning_GhostOfDanGurney-GhostOfDanGurney-20241115042200"></span>Result concerning GhostOfDanGurney<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Result_concerning_GhostOfDanGurney-GhostOfDanGurney-20241115042200"></span></h3><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement&action=edit&section=34" title="Edit section: Result concerning GhostOfDanGurney"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span></div> <dl><dd><i><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Swatjester-20241115042200-Result_concerning_GhostOfDanGurney"></span>This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.</i></dd></dl> <ul><li class="mw-empty-elt"></li></ul> <p>This is unnecessary, and retaliatory. Spot checking of the diffs alleging personal attacks, I don't see anything remotely of the sort. Going back and digging up diffs from 2018 and 2021 is likewise unhelpful and represents a battleground mentality towards weaponizing an AE action that is deeply concerning. Honestly if SAH thought this was a good idea after not listening to the advice about dropping the stick and behaving more civilly on the other AE request, it probably merits <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:BOOMERANG" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:BOOMERANG">boomerang sanctions</a> to stop the disruption. <a href="/wiki/User:Swatjester" title="User:Swatjester"><span style="color:red">⇒</span></a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Swatjester" title="User talk:Swatjester"><span style="font-family:Serif"><span style="color:black">SWAT</span><span style="color:goldenrod">Jester</span></span></a> <small><sup>Shoot Blues, Tell VileRat!</sup></small> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement#c-Swatjester-20241115042200-Result_concerning_GhostOfDanGurney" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">04:22, 15 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Swatjester-20241115042200-Result_concerning_GhostOfDanGurney"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Swatjester-20241115042200-Result_concerning_GhostOfDanGurney"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Swatjester-20241115044700-Swatjester-20241115042200"></span>SAH, I've looked at the diffs. The ones from 2024 don't appear actionable, and I think your characterizations of them as personal attacks are a stretch. The "thots" and "go fuck themselves" diffs were, as I mentioned, from 2018 and 2021, not directed at you, and were comments from his own talk page (which is a space where he is entitled to ask people to stop/leave within the confines of <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:USERTALKSTOP" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:USERTALKSTOP">WP:USERTALKSTOP</a>, and though it doesn't excuse the incivility of the language, we tend to give a degree of leeway in those cases.) So I don't see the relevance of those edits to your dispute with GhostofDanGurney today. <a href="/wiki/User:Swatjester" title="User:Swatjester"><span style="color:red">⇒</span></a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Swatjester" title="User talk:Swatjester"><span style="font-family:Serif"><span style="color:black">SWAT</span><span style="color:goldenrod">Jester</span></span></a> <small><sup>Shoot Blues, Tell VileRat!</sup></small> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement#c-Swatjester-20241115044700-Swatjester-20241115042200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">04:47, 15 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Swatjester-20241115044700-Swatjester-20241115042200"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Swatjester-20241115044700-Swatjester-20241115042200"></span></dd></dl> </td></tr></tbody></table> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Blockhaj" data-mw-thread-id="h-Blockhaj-20241116113300"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Blockhaj-20241116113300"></span>Blockhaj<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Blockhaj-20241116113300"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement&action=edit&section=35" title="Edit section: Blockhaj"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-ScottishFinnishRadish-20241118175100-Blockhaj"></span><link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1256395271"> <table class="hidden-archive mw-collapsible mw-archivedtalk mw-collapsed"> <tbody><tr> <th class="hat-header"><a href="/wiki/User:Blockhaj" title="User:Blockhaj">Blockhaj</a> is indefinitely topic banned from <a href="/wiki/Yasuke" title="Yasuke">Yasuke</a>, broadly construed. <a href="/wiki/User:ScottishFinnishRadish" title="User:ScottishFinnishRadish">ScottishFinnishRadish</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:ScottishFinnishRadish" title="User talk:ScottishFinnishRadish">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement#c-ScottishFinnishRadish-20241118175100-Blockhaj" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:51, 18 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-ScottishFinnishRadish-20241118175100-Blockhaj"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-ScottishFinnishRadish-20241118175100-Blockhaj"></span> </th></tr> <tr> <td style="font-style:italic;">The following discussion has been closed. <span style="color:var(--color-error, red);"><b>Please do not modify it.</b></span> </td></tr> <tr> <td class="hat-content"> <p><small><i>This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. <br/>Requests may not exceed 500 <a href="/wiki/Word_count#Software" title="Word count">words</a> and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.</i></small> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading3"><h3 id="Request_concerning_Blockhaj" data-mw-thread-id="h-Request_concerning_Blockhaj-Blockhaj-20241116113300"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Request_concerning_Blockhaj-Blockhaj-20241116113300"></span>Request concerning Blockhaj<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Request_concerning_Blockhaj-Blockhaj-20241116113300"></span></h3><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement&action=edit&section=36" title="Edit section: Request concerning Blockhaj"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span></div> <dl><dt><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Gitz6666-20241116113300-Request_concerning_Blockhaj"></span>User who is submitting this request for enforcement</dt> <dd><a href="/wiki/User:Gitz6666" title="User:Gitz6666">Gitz6666</a> <span class="plainlinks">(<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Gitz6666" title="User talk:Gitz6666">talk</a> <b>·</b> <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Gitz6666" title="Special:Contributions/Gitz6666">contribs</a> <b>·</b> <a href="/wiki/Special:DeletedContributions/Gitz6666" title="Special:DeletedContributions/Gitz6666">deleted contribs</a> <b>·</b> <a href="/wiki/Special:Log/Gitz6666" title="Special:Log/Gitz6666">logs</a> <b>·</b> <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3AAbuseLog&wpSearchUser=Gitz6666">filter log</a> <b>·</b> <a href="/wiki/Special:Block/Gitz6666" title="Special:Block/Gitz6666">block user</a> <b>·</b> <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3ALog%2Fblock&page=User%3AGitz6666">block log</a>)</span> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement#c-Gitz6666-20241116113300-Request_concerning_Blockhaj" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">11:33, 16 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Gitz6666-20241116113300-Request_concerning_Blockhaj"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Gitz6666-20241116113300-Request_concerning_Blockhaj"></span></dd></dl> <dl><dt>User against whom enforcement is requested</dt> <dd><a href="/wiki/User:Blockhaj" title="User:Blockhaj">Blockhaj</a> <span class="plainlinks">(<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Blockhaj" title="User talk:Blockhaj">talk</a> <b>·</b> <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Blockhaj" title="Special:Contributions/Blockhaj">contribs</a> <b>·</b> <a href="/wiki/Special:DeletedContributions/Blockhaj" title="Special:DeletedContributions/Blockhaj">deleted contribs</a> <b>·</b> <a href="/wiki/Special:Log/Blockhaj" title="Special:Log/Blockhaj">logs</a> <b>·</b> <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3AAbuseLog&wpSearchUser=Blockhaj">filter log</a> <b>·</b> <a href="/wiki/Special:Block/Blockhaj" title="Special:Block/Blockhaj">block user</a> <b>·</b> <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3ALog%2Fblock&page=User%3ABlockhaj">block log</a>)</span><p><span class="plainlinks">Search CT alerts<a href="/wiki/Template:Contentious_topics/log" title="Template:Contentious topics/log">:</a> <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Blockhaj&action=history&tagfilter=contentious+topics+alert">in user talk history</a> • <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:AbuseLog&wpSearchFilter=602&wpSearchTitle=User+talk%3ABlockhaj">in system log</a></span></p></dd></dl> <dl><dt>Sanction or remedy to be enforced</dt> <dd><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Yasuke" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Yasuke">Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Yasuke</a></dd> <dt><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:DIFF" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:DIFF">Diffs</a> of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation <i>how</i> these edits violate it</dt> <dd></dd></dl> <ol><li><a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Yasuke&diff=prev&oldid=1257604391">20:11, 15 November 2024</a>. Blockhaj adds <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1248585704"><q class="inline-quote-talk">according to some historians</q> against clear <a href="/wiki/Talk:Yasuke/Archive_8#RfC_on_Yasuke_Samurai_Status" title="Talk:Yasuke/Archive 8">RFC consensus</a> (<link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1248585704"><q class="inline-quote-talk">There exists a consensus to refer to Yasuke as a samurai without qualification</q>), plus tag bombing.</li> <li><a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Yasuke&diff=prev&oldid=1257630638">22:54, 15 November 2024 </a>. More POV-pushing - <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1248585704"><q class="inline-quote-talk">further neutralising the text</q>, Blockhaj removes sourced content on the samurai status (<link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1248585704"><q class="inline-quote-talk">Nobunaga (...) made him the first recorded foreigner to receive the rank of samurai</q>).</li> <li><a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Yasuke&diff=prev&oldid=1257633485">23:11, 15 November 2024</a>. Blockhaj explains their reasons, <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1248585704"><q class="inline-quote-talk">That rfc is not neutral</q>, after I opened a discusssion on the talk page (<a href="/wiki/Talk:Yasuke#Recent_edits" title="Talk:Yasuke">Recent edits</a>).</li> <li><a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Yasuke&diff=prev&oldid=1257639548">23:47, 15 November 2024</a>. Blockhaj restores their edits after <a href="/wiki/User:Silver_seren" title="User:Silver seren">Silver seren</a> undid them at <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?diff=1257635923">23:24, 15 November 2024</a>.</li></ol> <dl><dt>Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any</dt> <dd></dd> <dt>If <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Contentious_topics" title="Wikipedia:Contentious topics">contentious topics restrictions</a> are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:CTOP#Awareness_of_contentious_topics" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:CTOP">WP:CTOP#Awareness of contentious topics</a>)</dt> <dd></dd></dl> <ul><li>Alerted about discretionary sanctions or contentious topics in the area of conflict, on <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Blockhaj&diff=prev&oldid=1257631612">23:00, 15 November 2024</a>.</li></ul> <dl><dt>Additional comments by editor filing complaint</dt> <dd></dd></dl> <p>Both edit N° 1 and edit N° 2 are reverts (undoing <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?diff=prev&oldid=1231823282">this edit</a> and <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Yasuke&diff=prev&oldid=1232372503">this edit</a> respectively); Blockhaj violated <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:1RR" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:1RR">WP:1RR</a> by restoring their preferred version with edit N° 4. Besides, disregard for RfC consensus (<a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:IDHT" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:IDHT">WP:IDHT</a>) and POV-pushing are pretty clear. There may be a lack of knowledge of WP:RULES, as suggested by their behaviour during the Yasuke case (between <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Yasuke/Proposed_decision&diff=prev&oldid=1256517559">08:57, 10 November 2024</a> and <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Yasuke/Proposed_decision&diff=prev&oldid=1256518958">09:10, 10 November 2024</a>, Blockhaj added their !votes to the Proposed Decision and got reverted by <a href="/wiki/User:ScottishFinnishRadish" title="User:ScottishFinnishRadish">ScottishFinnishRadish</a> <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Yasuke/Proposed_decision&diff=prev&oldid=1256546015">here</a>) and by this <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:OTHERSCOMMENTS" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:OTHERSCOMMENTS">unwarranted removal</a> of another user's comment: <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Yasuke&diff=prev&oldid=1257601428">19:53, 15 November 2024</a>. Still, it's disruptive. </p><p>With the 1RR restriction now in place, their preferred description for Yasuke is <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Yasuke&oldid=1257639548">now still in the first sentence</a> of the lead section. </p> <dl><dt>Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested</dt> <dd></dd></dl> <p><a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Blockhaj&action=history">11:30, 16 November 2024</a> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading3"><h3 id="Discussion_concerning_Blockhaj" data-mw-thread-id="h-Discussion_concerning_Blockhaj-Blockhaj-20241116121300"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Discussion_concerning_Blockhaj-Blockhaj-20241116121300"></span>Discussion concerning Blockhaj<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Discussion_concerning_Blockhaj-Blockhaj-20241116121300"></span></h3><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement&action=edit&section=37" title="Edit section: Discussion concerning Blockhaj"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span></div> <p><small><i>Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 <a href="/wiki/Word_count#Software" title="Word count">words</a> and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.<br/>Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.</i></small> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading4"><h4 id="Statement_by_Blockhaj" data-mw-thread-id="h-Statement_by_Blockhaj-Discussion_concerning_Blockhaj-20241116121300"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Statement_by_Blockhaj-Discussion_concerning_Blockhaj-20241116121300"></span>Statement by Blockhaj<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Statement_by_Blockhaj-Discussion_concerning_Blockhaj-20241116121300"></span></h4><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement&action=edit&section=38" title="Edit section: Statement by Blockhaj"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Blockhaj-20241116121300-Statement_by_Blockhaj"></span>Im sorta done with the Yasuke discussion since there is a clear motive by particularly focused edditors to not improve the page based on arbitrary systems rather than direct discussion. </p><p>As for the complaints: </p> <ol><li>20:11, 15 November 2024. Blockhaj adds according to some historians against clear RFC consensus (There exists a consensus to refer to Yasuke as a samurai without qualification), plus tag bombing.</li></ol> <dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd>The rfc cannot be taken seriously by anyone interested in history. It is not a neutral statement and goes against basic principles of such subjects like Yasuke. We have very few sources on Yasuke, and educated guesses about his status, especially judgmental terms such as samurai, should not be portrayed as unanimous by historians to any degree of imagination. This is a case of <a href="/wiki/Echo_chamber_(media)" title="Echo chamber (media)">echochambering</a>. The rfc was full of users with no previous edits on Wikipedia, and the larger coherent "edit gathering" coincided with Ubisofts announcement and following damage control of their new game portraying Yasuke as a full-fledged samurai. I do not claim that every new editor there was hired by Ubisoft, but it was clearly corelated to some degree and biased in favour of the company's agenda.--<a href="/wiki/User:Blockhaj" title="User:Blockhaj">Blockhaj</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Blockhaj" title="User talk:Blockhaj">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement#c-Blockhaj-20241116121300-Statement_by_Blockhaj" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">12:13, 16 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Blockhaj-20241116121300-Statement_by_Blockhaj"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Blockhaj-20241116121300-Statement_by_Blockhaj"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Blockhaj-20241116121300-Blockhaj-20241116121300"></span>As for the "tag bombing" (how can 2 related tags be classified as tag bombing?), they reflect the discussion which has been going on under the section: <a href="/wiki/Talk:Yasuke#Full_section_regarding_the_definition_of_samurai" title="Talk:Yasuke">Talk:Yasuke#Full_section_regarding_the_definition_of_samurai</a>.--<a href="/wiki/User:Blockhaj" title="User:Blockhaj">Blockhaj</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Blockhaj" title="User talk:Blockhaj">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement#c-Blockhaj-20241116121300-Blockhaj-20241116121300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">12:13, 16 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Blockhaj-20241116121300-Blockhaj-20241116121300"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Blockhaj-20241116121300-Blockhaj-20241116121300"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <ol><li><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Blockhaj-20241116121300-Blockhaj-20241116121300-1"></span>22:54, 15 November 2024 . More POV-pushing - further neutralising the text, Blockhaj removes sourced content on the samurai status (Nobunaga (...) made him the first recorded foreigner to receive the rank of samurai).</li></ol> <dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd>This paragraph was out of place because it is covered later in the text with better formatting and is thus superfluous and somewhat disruptive to the latter flow.--<a href="/wiki/User:Blockhaj" title="User:Blockhaj">Blockhaj</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Blockhaj" title="User talk:Blockhaj">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement#c-Blockhaj-20241116121300-Blockhaj-20241116121300-1" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">12:13, 16 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Blockhaj-20241116121300-Blockhaj-20241116121300-1"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Blockhaj-20241116121300-Blockhaj-20241116121300-1"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <ol><li><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Blockhaj-20241116121300-Blockhaj-20241116121300-2"></span>23:11, 15 November 2024. Blockhaj explains their reasons, That rfc is not neutral, after I opened a discusssion on the talk page (Recent edits).</li></ol> <dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd>This one is self-explanatory above.--<a href="/wiki/User:Blockhaj" title="User:Blockhaj">Blockhaj</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Blockhaj" title="User talk:Blockhaj">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement#c-Blockhaj-20241116121300-Blockhaj-20241116121300-2" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">12:13, 16 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Blockhaj-20241116121300-Blockhaj-20241116121300-2"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Blockhaj-20241116121300-Blockhaj-20241116121300-2"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <ol><li><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Blockhaj-20241116121300-Blockhaj-20241116121300-3"></span>23:47, 15 November 2024. Blockhaj restores their edits after Silver seren undid them at 23:24, 15 November 2024.</li></ol> <dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd>Silver seren reverted various edits in one swoop without checking them, reintroducing various textual errors from previous erronous edits which i had fixed.--<a href="/wiki/User:Blockhaj" title="User:Blockhaj">Blockhaj</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Blockhaj" title="User talk:Blockhaj">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement#c-Blockhaj-20241116121300-Blockhaj-20241116121300-3" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">12:13, 16 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Blockhaj-20241116121300-Blockhaj-20241116121300-3"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Blockhaj-20241116121300-Blockhaj-20241116121300-3"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading4"><h4 id="Statement_by_(username)_4" data-mw-thread-id="h-Statement_by_(username)_4-Discussion_concerning_Blockhaj"><span id="Statement_by_.28username.29_4"></span><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Statement_by_(username)_4-Discussion_concerning_Blockhaj"></span>Statement by (username)<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Statement_by_(username)_4-Discussion_concerning_Blockhaj"></span></h4><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement&action=edit&section=39" title="Edit section: Statement by (username)"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span></div> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading3"><h3 id="Result_concerning_Blockhaj" data-mw-thread-id="h-Result_concerning_Blockhaj-Blockhaj-20241116165800"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Result_concerning_Blockhaj-Blockhaj-20241116165800"></span>Result concerning Blockhaj<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Result_concerning_Blockhaj-Blockhaj-20241116165800"></span></h3><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement&action=edit&section=40" title="Edit section: Result concerning Blockhaj"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span></div> <dl><dd><i><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-ScottishFinnishRadish-20241116165800-Result_concerning_Blockhaj"></span>This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.</i></dd></dl> <ul><li>I'm thinking indef topic ban, although I'll give this a bit to see if there's any objection. Ignoring an RFC and edit warring after an arb case just wrapped up is definitely the wrong call. <a href="/wiki/User:ScottishFinnishRadish" title="User:ScottishFinnishRadish">ScottishFinnishRadish</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:ScottishFinnishRadish" title="User talk:ScottishFinnishRadish">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement#c-ScottishFinnishRadish-20241116165800-Result_concerning_Blockhaj" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:58, 16 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-ScottishFinnishRadish-20241116165800-Result_concerning_Blockhaj"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-ScottishFinnishRadish-20241116165800-Result_concerning_Blockhaj"></span></li></ul> </td></tr></tbody></table> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Arbitration_enforcement_action_appeal_by_Ecrusized" data-mw-thread-id="h-Arbitration_enforcement_action_appeal_by_Ecrusized-20241116150000"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Arbitration_enforcement_action_appeal_by_Ecrusized-20241116150000"></span>Arbitration enforcement action appeal by Ecrusized<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Arbitration_enforcement_action_appeal_by_Ecrusized-20241116150000"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement&action=edit&section=41" title="Edit section: Arbitration enforcement action appeal by Ecrusized"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Femke-20241123154800-Arbitration_enforcement_action_appeal_by_Ecrusized"></span><link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1256395271"> <table class="hidden-archive mw-collapsible mw-archivedtalk mw-collapsed"> <tbody><tr> <th class="hat-header">Appeal declined. <a href="/wiki/User:Femke" title="User:Femke">—Femke 🐦</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Femke" title="User talk:Femke">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement#c-Femke-20241123154800-Arbitration_enforcement_action_appeal_by_Ecrusized" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:48, 23 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Femke-20241123154800-Arbitration_enforcement_action_appeal_by_Ecrusized"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Femke-20241123154800-Arbitration_enforcement_action_appeal_by_Ecrusized"></span> </th></tr> <tr> <td style="font-style:italic;"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Ecrusized-20241116150000-Arbitration_enforcement_action_appeal_by_Ecrusized"></span>The following discussion has been closed. <span style="color:var(--color-error, red);"><b>Please do not modify it.</b></span> </td></tr> <tr> <td class="hat-content"> <p><small><i>Procedural notes: The rules governing arbitration enforcement appeals are found <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration_Committee/Procedures#Enforcement" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration Committee/Procedures">here</a>. According to the procedures, a "clear and substantial consensus of uninvolved administrators" is required to overturn an arbitration enforcement action.</i></small> </p><p><small><i>To help determine any such consensus, involved editors may make brief statements in separate sections<span class="nowrap"> </span>but should not edit the section for discussion among uninvolved editors. Editors are normally considered involved if they are in a current dispute with the sanctioning or sanctioned editor, or have taken part in disputes (if any) related to the contested enforcement action. Administrators having taken administrative actions are not normally considered involved for this reason alone (see <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:UNINVOLVED" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:UNINVOLVED">WP:UNINVOLVED</a>).</i></small> </p> <dl><dt>Appealing user</dt> <dd><a href="/wiki/User:Ecrusized" title="User:Ecrusized">Ecrusized</a> <span class="plainlinks">(<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Ecrusized" title="User talk:Ecrusized">talk</a> <b>·</b> <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Ecrusized" title="Special:Contributions/Ecrusized">contribs</a> <b>·</b> <a href="/wiki/Special:DeletedContributions/Ecrusized" title="Special:DeletedContributions/Ecrusized">deleted contribs</a> <b>·</b> <a href="/wiki/Special:Log/Ecrusized" title="Special:Log/Ecrusized">logs</a> <b>·</b> <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3AAbuseLog&wpSearchUser=Ecrusized">filter log</a> <b>·</b> <a href="/wiki/Special:Block/Ecrusized" title="Special:Block/Ecrusized">block user</a> <b>·</b> <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3ALog%2Fblock&page=User%3AEcrusized">block log</a>)</span> – <a href="/wiki/User:Ecrusized" title="User:Ecrusized">Ecrusized</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Ecrusized" title="User talk:Ecrusized">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement#c-Ecrusized-20241116150000-Arbitration_enforcement_action_appeal_by_Ecrusized" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:00, 16 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Ecrusized-20241116150000-Arbitration_enforcement_action_appeal_by_Ecrusized"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Ecrusized-20241116150000-Arbitration_enforcement_action_appeal_by_Ecrusized"></span></dd></dl> <dl><dt>Sanction being appealed</dt> <dd><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:CT/A-I" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:CT/A-I">WP:CT/A-I</a></dd></dl> <p>Sanction notice on user talk page. Diff: <a class="external free" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Ecrusized&diff=prev&oldid=1224781735">https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Ecrusized&diff=prev&oldid=1224781735</a> </p><p>Discussion leading to the block: <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/IncidentArchive1157#WP:BATTLEGROUND_User:BilledMammal" title="Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/IncidentArchive1157">Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/IncidentArchive1157#WP:BATTLEGROUND User:BilledMammal</a> </p> <dl><dt>Administrator imposing the sanction</dt> <dd><a href="/wiki/User:ScottishFinnishRadish" title="User:ScottishFinnishRadish">ScottishFinnishRadish</a> <span class="plainlinks">(<a href="/wiki/User_talk:ScottishFinnishRadish" title="User talk:ScottishFinnishRadish">talk</a> <b>·</b> <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/ScottishFinnishRadish" title="Special:Contributions/ScottishFinnishRadish">contribs</a> <b>·</b> <a href="/wiki/Special:Log/block/ScottishFinnishRadish" title="Special:Log/block/ScottishFinnishRadish">blocks</a> <b>·</b> <a href="/wiki/Special:Log/protect/ScottishFinnishRadish" title="Special:Log/protect/ScottishFinnishRadish">protections</a> <b>·</b> <a href="/wiki/Special:Log/delete/ScottishFinnishRadish" title="Special:Log/delete/ScottishFinnishRadish">deletions</a> <b>·</b> <a href="/wiki/Special:Log/move/ScottishFinnishRadish" title="Special:Log/move/ScottishFinnishRadish">page moves</a> <b>·</b> <a href="/wiki/Special:Log/rights/ScottishFinnishRadish" title="Special:Log/rights/ScottishFinnishRadish">rights</a> <b>·</b> <a href="/wiki/Special:PrefixIndex/Wikipedia:Requests_for_adminship/ScottishFinnishRadish" title="Special:PrefixIndex/Wikipedia:Requests for adminship/ScottishFinnishRadish">RfA</a>)</span></dd></dl> <dl><dt>Notification of that administrator</dt> <dd><i>The appealing editor is asked to notify the administrator who made the enforcement action of this appeal, and then to replace this text with a <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:DIFF" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:DIFF">diff</a> of that notification. The appeal may not be processed otherwise. If a block is appealed, the editor moving the appeal to this board should make the notification.</i></dd></dl> <p>Diff: <a class="external free" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:ScottishFinnishRadish&diff=prev&oldid=1257767232">https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:ScottishFinnishRadish&diff=prev&oldid=1257767232</a> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading3"><h3 id="Statement_by_Ecrusized" data-mw-thread-id="h-Statement_by_Ecrusized-Arbitration_enforcement_action_appeal_by_Ecrusized-20241116214200"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Statement_by_Ecrusized-Arbitration_enforcement_action_appeal_by_Ecrusized-20241116214200"></span>Statement by Ecrusized<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Statement_by_Ecrusized-Arbitration_enforcement_action_appeal_by_Ecrusized-20241116214200"></span></h3><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement&action=edit&section=42" title="Edit section: Statement by Ecrusized"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Ecrusized-20241116214200-Statement_by_Ecrusized"></span>Greetings all. Today is precisely the 180th day since the filing of my indefinite topic ban on the Arab-Israeli conflict. I was sanctioned for <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:BATTLEGROUND" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:BATTLEGROUND">WP:BATTLEGROUND</a> editing, not understanding the arbitration rules, (including 1RR). As well as a <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=&diff=prev&oldid=1223777044%7Cpersonal">commentary towards other editors</a>. During the past 6 months, I have completely refrained from editing any and all topics linked to the Arab-Israeli conflict on English Wikipedia. I have updated the maps of the Israel-Hamas war, and Israel-Hezbollah conflict, on Commons, after confirming with <a href="/wiki/User:ScottishFinnishRadish" title="User:ScottishFinnishRadish">ScottishFinnishRadar</a>, the administrator who sanctioned me, that editing commons was not in violation of my topic ban. I would like to appeal my topic ban in this area because I have now learned about the 1RR rule, what the arbitration commitee is and how its rules work. As well as my personal commentary towards other editors in the topic area. I believe my appeal is just as I have observed all of my sanctions rules since its enforcement, and I have waited 6 months to file this very first appeal on the ban as its required. Thank you all. </p><p><b>Ecrusized response to Red-tailed hawk</b> </p><p>Dear <a href="/wiki/User:Red-tailed_hawk" title="User:Red-tailed hawk">Red-tailed hawk</a>, neither of the two articles you've linked, which I have edited during my topic ban, are sanctioned under <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:CT/A-I" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:CT/A-I">WP:CT/A-I</a>. During the time of my sanctioning from the topic, I have checked the talk page header of every article I was editing to confirm beforehand that I was not violating my topic ban. <a href="/wiki/2024_missile_strikes_in_Yemen" title="2024 missile strikes in Yemen">2024 missile strikes in Yemen</a> is an article about US and British strikes on Yemen. The article is not linked to the Arab-Israeli conflict on its talk page header in any way. Instead, it is applied to enforcement for <i>post-1978 Iranian politics</i>. For which I was not placed under restriction for. Regarding the now deleted article, <a href="/w/index.php?title=2024_Turkish_Hostage_Crisis&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="2024 Turkish Hostage Crisis (page does not exist)">2024 Turkish Hostage Crisis</a> which I nominated for deletion. It was a news story citing Turkish language sources, once again, not linked to the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:CT/A-I" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:CT/A-I">WP:CT/A-I</a> nor in the scope of that topic. Both of the articles are also not linked Israel, or Arab-Israeli conflict in their categories. Additionally, I was told my the administrator giving me my sanction that I must refrain from editing topics involving Arab-Israeli conflict, which is what I did. I was not told that I must also refrain from editing topics that <i>might</i> be related to that topic area. This is why I am asking for an appeal, and giving a bold statement saying <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1248585704"><q class="inline-quote-talk">During the past 6 months, I have completely refrained from editing any and all topics linked to the Arab-Israeli conflict on English Wikipedia</q>. If there are clear lines defining this topic ban, I believe I have completely abided by them. <a href="/wiki/User:Ecrusized" title="User:Ecrusized">Ecrusized</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Ecrusized" title="User talk:Ecrusized">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement#c-Ecrusized-20241116214200-Statement_by_Ecrusized" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:42, 16 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Ecrusized-20241116214200-Statement_by_Ecrusized"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Ecrusized-20241116214200-Statement_by_Ecrusized"></span> </p><p><b><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Ecrusized-20241117104100-Statement_by_Ecrusized"></span>Ecrusized 2nd response to Red-tailed hawk</b> </p><p>Dear <a href="/wiki/User:Red-tailed_hawk" title="User:Red-tailed hawk">Red-tailed hawk</a> you are indeed correct that <a href="/wiki/2024_missile_strikes_in_Yemen" title="2024 missile strikes in Yemen">2024 missile strikes in Yemen</a> was sanctioned under <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:ARBPIA" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:ARBPIA">WP:ARBPIA</a> at the time of my editing. However, this was not mentined in the talk page header where arbitration enforcements are generally written, and in my notion, without a guideline stating it as such, I did not consider US-UK strikes on Yemen within the scope of Arab-Israeli conflict. This does not appear to be a deliberate or blatant violation of my sanctioning from the topic area, but a misidentification of the enforcement, and its mandated expression. I believe I am asking my appeal in good faith. As an user who was previously heavily involved in editing Arab-Israeli conflict articles, I have nearly completely refrained from editing them, apart from one or two articles where the enforcement was not directly visible. <a href="/wiki/User:Ecrusized" title="User:Ecrusized">Ecrusized</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Ecrusized" title="User talk:Ecrusized">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement#c-Ecrusized-20241117104100-Statement_by_Ecrusized" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">10:41, 17 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Ecrusized-20241117104100-Statement_by_Ecrusized"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Ecrusized-20241117104100-Statement_by_Ecrusized"></span> </p><p><b><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Ecrusized-20241123103000-Statement_by_Ecrusized"></span>Ecrusized response to Extraordinary Writ</b> </p><p>Dear <a href="/wiki/User:Extraordinary_Writ" title="User:Extraordinary Writ">Extraordinary Writ</a>, can you tell me about when I can make this appeal again, given that I will have refrained from any further violations or edit warring in other topic areas by then? Would it be another 6 months in minimum, or can I make an appeal, in say, 3 months from now? Thanks. <a href="/wiki/User:Ecrusized" title="User:Ecrusized">Ecrusized</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Ecrusized" title="User talk:Ecrusized">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement#c-Ecrusized-20241123103000-Statement_by_Ecrusized" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">10:30, 23 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Ecrusized-20241123103000-Statement_by_Ecrusized"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Ecrusized-20241123103000-Statement_by_Ecrusized"></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading3"><h3 id="Statement_by_ScottishFinnishRadish" data-mw-thread-id="h-Statement_by_ScottishFinnishRadish-Arbitration_enforcement_action_appeal_by_Ecrusized"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Statement_by_ScottishFinnishRadish-Arbitration_enforcement_action_appeal_by_Ecrusized"></span>Statement by ScottishFinnishRadish<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Statement_by_ScottishFinnishRadish-Arbitration_enforcement_action_appeal_by_Ecrusized"></span></h3><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement&action=edit&section=43" title="Edit section: Statement by ScottishFinnishRadish"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span></div> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading3"><h3 id="Statement_by_Red-tailed_hawk" data-mw-thread-id="h-Statement_by_Red-tailed_hawk-Arbitration_enforcement_action_appeal_by_Ecrusized-20241116203300"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Statement_by_Red-tailed_hawk-Arbitration_enforcement_action_appeal_by_Ecrusized-20241116203300"></span>Statement by Red-tailed hawk<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Statement_by_Red-tailed_hawk-Arbitration_enforcement_action_appeal_by_Ecrusized-20241116203300"></span></h3><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement&action=edit&section=44" title="Edit section: Statement by Red-tailed hawk"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Red-tailed_hawk-20241116203300-Statement_by_Red-tailed_hawk"></span>I am going to note that the user continued to make edits to articles relating to the <a href="/wiki/2024_missile_strikes_in_Yemen" title="2024 missile strikes in Yemen">2024 missile strikes in Yemen</a>, a topic very much within the scope of the ongoing war (see <a href="/wiki/Israel%E2%80%93Hamas_war#Yemen_and_the_Red_Sea" title="Israel–Hamas war">Israel–Hamas war#Yemen and the Red Sea</a>) after the topic ban was issued on 20 May. These edits include: </p> <ol><li><a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=2024_missile_strikes_in_Yemen&diff=prev&oldid=1226550410">A substantial edit</a> to <a href="/wiki/2024_missile_strikes_in_Yemen" title="2024 missile strikes in Yemen">2024 missile strikes in Yemen</a> made on 31 May;</li> <li>A <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=30_May_2024_Yemen_strikes&diff=prev&oldid=1226709768">page</a> <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=2024_Sanaa_strikes&oldid=1226709769">move</a> and associated <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:30_May_2024_Yemen_strikes&diff=prev&oldid=1226709770">talk page</a> <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:2024_Sanaa_strikes&oldid=1226709771">move</a> related to a specific missile strike in Yemen that was moved on 1 June;</li> <li>Another <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=2024_missile_strikes_in_Yemen&diff=prev&oldid=122936955">set</a> <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=2024_missile_strikes_in_Yemen&diff=prev&oldid=1229369652">of</a> <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=2024_missile_strikes_in_Yemen&diff=prev&oldid=1229377184">edits</a> to <a href="/wiki/2024_missile_strikes_in_Yemen" title="2024 missile strikes in Yemen">2024 missile strikes in Yemen</a> on 16 June.</li> <li>The user <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/2024_Turkish_hostage_crisis&oldid=1232748451">created</a> an AfD for <a href="/wiki/2024_Turkish_hostage_crisis" title="2024 Turkish hostage crisis">2024 Turkish hostage crisis</a> on 5 July. The article was about a <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://apnews.com/article/factory-hostages-turkey-proctor-gamble-gaza-d246a7853e0982d589a1b1e0d7390380">hostage taking scenario</a> that was a protest against Israeli actions in Gaza.</li></ol> <p>As such, I am skeptical of the appellant's statement from above, where the appellant said <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1248585704"><q class="inline-quote-talk">During the past 6 months, I have completely refrained from editing any and all topics linked to the Arab-Israeli conflict on English Wikipedia</q>. — <a href="/wiki/User:Red-tailed_hawk" title="User:Red-tailed hawk"><span style="color: #660000">Red-tailed hawk</span></a> <sub><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Red-tailed_hawk" title="User talk:Red-tailed hawk"><span style="color: #660000">(nest)</span></a></sub> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement#c-Red-tailed_hawk-20241116203300-Statement_by_Red-tailed_hawk" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:33, 16 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Red-tailed_hawk-20241116203300-Statement_by_Red-tailed_hawk"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Red-tailed_hawk-20241116203300-Statement_by_Red-tailed_hawk"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Red-tailed_hawk-20241117022400-Red-tailed_hawk-20241116203300"></span>In response to <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement&diff=prev&oldid=1257834717">this comment</a>: <ol><li>With respect to <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1248585704"><q class="inline-quote-talk">neither of the two articles you've linked, which I have edited during my topic ban, are sanctioned under WP:CT/A-I</q>, I will note that <a href="/wiki/2024_missile_strikes_in_Yemen" title="2024 missile strikes in Yemen">2024 missile strikes in Yemen</a> is <i>extended confirmed protected per <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:ARBPIA" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:ARBPIA">WP:ARBPIA</a></i> (see <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration_enforcement_log/2024#c-Daniel_Quinlan-20240112211300-January%E2%80%93March">this comment</a> at <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:AELOG/2024#PIA" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:AELOG/2024">WP:AELOG/2024#PIA</a>), and that the infobox of <a href="/wiki/30_May_2024_Yemen_strikes" title="30 May 2024 Yemen strikes">30 May 2024 Yemen strikes</a> <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=30_May_2024_Yemen_strikes&diff=prev&oldid=1226709768">at the time of the page move</a> indicated that this was part of the "spillover of the Israel–Hamas war". I do not understand how you reason that neither of these are within the scope of the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:BROADLY" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:BROADLY">WP:BROADLY</a> construed Arab-Israeli conflict.</li> <li>With respect to the deleted article, I have requested it be temporarily undeleted to show the text to everybody. However, it is quite clear to me that an article about a protest action <i>against Israel's actions in the ongoing war</i> would be within the scope of the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:BROADLY" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:BROADLY">WP:BROADLY</a> construed <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:PIA" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:PIA">WP:PIA</a> tban.</li></ol></dd> <dd>— <a href="/wiki/User:Red-tailed_hawk" title="User:Red-tailed hawk"><span style="color: #660000">Red-tailed hawk</span></a> <sub><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Red-tailed_hawk" title="User talk:Red-tailed hawk"><span style="color: #660000">(nest)</span></a></sub> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement#c-Red-tailed_hawk-20241117022400-Red-tailed_hawk-20241116203300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:24, 17 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Red-tailed_hawk-20241117022400-Red-tailed_hawk-20241116203300"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Red-tailed_hawk-20241117022400-Red-tailed_hawk-20241116203300"></span></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Red-tailed_hawk-20241117024000-Red-tailed_hawk-20241116203300"></span>I will note that <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=2024_Turkish_hostage_crisis&diff=prev&oldid=1257882406">2024 Turkish hostage crisis</a> has now been restored temporarily for the purposes of this discussion. — <a href="/wiki/User:Red-tailed_hawk" title="User:Red-tailed hawk"><span style="color: #660000">Red-tailed hawk</span></a> <sub><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Red-tailed_hawk" title="User talk:Red-tailed hawk"><span style="color: #660000">(nest)</span></a></sub> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement#c-Red-tailed_hawk-20241117024000-Red-tailed_hawk-20241116203300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:40, 17 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Red-tailed_hawk-20241117024000-Red-tailed_hawk-20241116203300"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Red-tailed_hawk-20241117024000-Red-tailed_hawk-20241116203300"></span></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading3"><h3 id="Statement_by_(involved_editor_2)" data-mw-thread-id="h-Statement_by_(involved_editor_2)-Arbitration_enforcement_action_appeal_by_Ecrusized"><span id="Statement_by_.28involved_editor_2.29"></span><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Statement_by_(involved_editor_2)-Arbitration_enforcement_action_appeal_by_Ecrusized"></span>Statement by (involved editor 2)<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Statement_by_(involved_editor_2)-Arbitration_enforcement_action_appeal_by_Ecrusized"></span></h3><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement&action=edit&section=45" title="Edit section: Statement by (involved editor 2)"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span></div> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading3"><h3 id="Discussion_among_uninvolved_editors_about_the_appeal_by_Ecrusized" data-mw-thread-id="h-Discussion_among_uninvolved_editors_about_the_appeal_by_Ecrusized-Arbitration_enforcement_action_appeal_by_Ecrusized"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Discussion_among_uninvolved_editors_about_the_appeal_by_Ecrusized-Arbitration_enforcement_action_appeal_by_Ecrusized"></span>Discussion among uninvolved editors about the appeal by Ecrusized<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Discussion_among_uninvolved_editors_about_the_appeal_by_Ecrusized-Arbitration_enforcement_action_appeal_by_Ecrusized"></span></h3><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement&action=edit&section=46" title="Edit section: Discussion among uninvolved editors about the appeal by Ecrusized"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span></div> <p><small><i>Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 <a href="/wiki/Word_count#Software" title="Word count">words</a> and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. <br/>Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.</i></small> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading4"><h4 id="Statement_by_(uninvolved_editor_1)" data-mw-thread-id="h-Statement_by_(uninvolved_editor_1)-Discussion_among_uninvolved_editors_about_the_appeal_by_Ecrusized"><span id="Statement_by_.28uninvolved_editor_1.29"></span><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Statement_by_(uninvolved_editor_1)-Discussion_among_uninvolved_editors_about_the_appeal_by_Ecrusized"></span>Statement by (uninvolved editor 1)<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Statement_by_(uninvolved_editor_1)-Discussion_among_uninvolved_editors_about_the_appeal_by_Ecrusized"></span></h4><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement&action=edit&section=47" title="Edit section: Statement by (uninvolved editor 1)"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span></div> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading4"><h4 id="Statement_by_(uninvolved_editor_2)" data-mw-thread-id="h-Statement_by_(uninvolved_editor_2)-Discussion_among_uninvolved_editors_about_the_appeal_by_Ecrusized"><span id="Statement_by_.28uninvolved_editor_2.29"></span><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Statement_by_(uninvolved_editor_2)-Discussion_among_uninvolved_editors_about_the_appeal_by_Ecrusized"></span>Statement by (uninvolved editor 2)<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Statement_by_(uninvolved_editor_2)-Discussion_among_uninvolved_editors_about_the_appeal_by_Ecrusized"></span></h4><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement&action=edit&section=48" title="Edit section: Statement by (uninvolved editor 2)"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span></div> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading3"><h3 id="Result_of_the_appeal_by_Ecrusized" data-mw-thread-id="h-Result_of_the_appeal_by_Ecrusized-Arbitration_enforcement_action_appeal_by_Ecrusized-20241122025000"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Result_of_the_appeal_by_Ecrusized-Arbitration_enforcement_action_appeal_by_Ecrusized-20241122025000"></span>Result of the appeal by Ecrusized<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Result_of_the_appeal_by_Ecrusized-Arbitration_enforcement_action_appeal_by_Ecrusized-20241122025000"></span></h3><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement&action=edit&section=49" title="Edit section: Result of the appeal by Ecrusized"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span></div> <dl><dd><i><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Extraordinary_Writ-20241122025000-Result_of_the_appeal_by_Ecrusized"></span>This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.</i></dd></dl> <ul><li>Even putting RTH's concerns to the side, we still have <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Incidents&diff=prev&oldid=1242856170">two</a> <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Ecrusized#Formal_warning_about_edit_warring">warnings</a> recently about 1RR/edit-warring issues—the very same issues that led to the topic ban. I can't support this appeal without a much better track record of avoiding revert-related problems. <a href="/wiki/User:Extraordinary_Writ" title="User:Extraordinary Writ">Extraordinary Writ</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Extraordinary_Writ" title="User talk:Extraordinary Writ">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement#c-Extraordinary_Writ-20241122025000-Result_of_the_appeal_by_Ecrusized" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:50, 22 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Extraordinary_Writ-20241122025000-Result_of_the_appeal_by_Ecrusized"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Extraordinary_Writ-20241122025000-Result_of_the_appeal_by_Ecrusized"></span></li> <li><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Femke-20241123154000-Result_of_the_appeal_by_Ecrusized"></span>In response to the question about a possible re-appeal, please wait at least 6 months. I see you have scaled down your activity since the start of the topic ban, making it a bit more difficult to demonstrate a track record of unproblematic edits within 6 months. Note that further violations of your topic ban may lead to escalating blocks, so please read <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Topic_ban" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:Topic ban">WP:topic ban</a> again to fully understand what broadly construed means (and ask the enforcing admin / any other admin when in doubt). <a href="/wiki/User:Femke" title="User:Femke">—Femke 🐦</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Femke" title="User talk:Femke">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement#c-Femke-20241123154000-Result_of_the_appeal_by_Ecrusized" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:40, 23 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Femke-20241123154000-Result_of_the_appeal_by_Ecrusized"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Femke-20241123154000-Result_of_the_appeal_by_Ecrusized"></span></li></ul> </td></tr></tbody></table> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Carthradge" data-mw-thread-id="h-Carthradge-20241117155800"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Carthradge-20241117155800"></span>Carthradge<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Carthradge-20241117155800"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement&action=edit&section=50" title="Edit section: Carthradge"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-ScottishFinnishRadish-20241117182000-Carthradge"></span><link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1256395271"> <table class="hidden-archive mw-collapsible mw-archivedtalk mw-collapsed"> <tbody><tr> <th class="hat-header">Stale, and the reporting editor had their EC permission pulled for gaming. <a href="/wiki/User:ScottishFinnishRadish" title="User:ScottishFinnishRadish">ScottishFinnishRadish</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:ScottishFinnishRadish" title="User talk:ScottishFinnishRadish">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement#c-ScottishFinnishRadish-20241117182000-Carthradge" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:20, 17 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-ScottishFinnishRadish-20241117182000-Carthradge"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-ScottishFinnishRadish-20241117182000-Carthradge"></span> </th></tr> <tr> <td style="font-style:italic;">The following discussion has been closed. <span style="color:var(--color-error, red);"><b>Please do not modify it.</b></span> </td></tr> <tr> <td class="hat-content"> <p><small><i>This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. <br/>Requests may not exceed 500 <a href="/wiki/Word_count#Software" title="Word count">words</a> and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.</i></small> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading3"><h3 id="Request_concerning_Carthradge" data-mw-thread-id="h-Request_concerning_Carthradge-Carthradge-20241117155800"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Request_concerning_Carthradge-Carthradge-20241117155800"></span>Request concerning Carthradge<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Request_concerning_Carthradge-Carthradge-20241117155800"></span></h3><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement&action=edit&section=51" title="Edit section: Request concerning Carthradge"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span></div> <dl><dt><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-IdanST-20241117155800-Request_concerning_Carthradge"></span>User who is submitting this request for enforcement</dt> <dd><a href="/wiki/User:IdanST" title="User:IdanST">IdanST</a> <span class="plainlinks">(<a href="/wiki/User_talk:IdanST" title="User talk:IdanST">talk</a> <b>·</b> <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/IdanST" title="Special:Contributions/IdanST">contribs</a> <b>·</b> <a href="/wiki/Special:DeletedContributions/IdanST" title="Special:DeletedContributions/IdanST">deleted contribs</a> <b>·</b> <a href="/wiki/Special:Log/IdanST" title="Special:Log/IdanST">logs</a> <b>·</b> <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3AAbuseLog&wpSearchUser=IdanST">filter log</a> <b>·</b> <a href="/wiki/Special:Block/IdanST" title="Special:Block/IdanST">block user</a> <b>·</b> <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3ALog%2Fblock&page=User%3AIdanST">block log</a>)</span> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement#c-IdanST-20241117155800-Request_concerning_Carthradge" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:58, 17 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-IdanST-20241117155800-Request_concerning_Carthradge"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-IdanST-20241117155800-Request_concerning_Carthradge"></span></dd></dl> <dl><dt>User against whom enforcement is requested</dt> <dd><a href="/wiki/User:Carthradge" title="User:Carthradge">Carthradge</a> <span class="plainlinks">(<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Carthradge" title="User talk:Carthradge">talk</a> <b>·</b> <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Carthradge" title="Special:Contributions/Carthradge">contribs</a> <b>·</b> <a href="/wiki/Special:DeletedContributions/Carthradge" title="Special:DeletedContributions/Carthradge">deleted contribs</a> <b>·</b> <a href="/wiki/Special:Log/Carthradge" title="Special:Log/Carthradge">logs</a> <b>·</b> <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3AAbuseLog&wpSearchUser=Carthradge">filter log</a> <b>·</b> <a href="/wiki/Special:Block/Carthradge" title="Special:Block/Carthradge">block user</a> <b>·</b> <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3ALog%2Fblock&page=User%3ACarthradge">block log</a>)</span><p><span class="plainlinks">Search CT alerts<a href="/wiki/Template:Contentious_topics/log" title="Template:Contentious topics/log">:</a> <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Carthradge&action=history&tagfilter=contentious+topics+alert">in user talk history</a> • <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:AbuseLog&wpSearchFilter=602&wpSearchTitle=User+talk%3ACarthradge">in system log</a></span></p></dd></dl> <dl><dt>Sanction or remedy to be enforced</dt> <dd><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:ARBPIA4" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:ARBPIA4">Wikipedia:ARBPIA4</a></dd></dl> <dl><dt><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:DIFF" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:DIFF">Diffs</a> of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation <i>how</i> these edits violate it</dt> <dd></dd></dl> <ul><li><a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Ole_S%C3%A6ter&diff=prev&oldid=1247174676">04:45, 23 September 2024</a> blatant <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:NPOV" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:NPOV">WP:NPOV</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:ECR" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:ECR">WP:ECR</a> and <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:PIA" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:PIA">WP:PIA</a> violations, while lying it's "Replacing link with more relevant direct link to topic".</li> <li><a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Ole_S%C3%A6ter&diff=prev&oldid=1247281275">16:42, 23 September 2024</a> <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WAR" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:WAR">WP:WAR</a> violation, edit war with IvanScrooge98.</li> <li><a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Ole_S%C3%A6ter&diff=prev&oldid=1251001320">20:09, 13 October 2024</a> edit war continuation, blatantly violating <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WAR" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:WAR">WP:WAR</a>, reverting again, this time edit war with me (that I reverted once to before he started this edit war).</li> <li><a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User%20talk:ScottishFinnishRadish&diff=prev&oldid=1251004560">20:32, 13 October 2024</a> personal attack, violating <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:NPA" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:NPA">WP:NPA</a>, while falsely claiming "they used minor edits with misleading descriptions to remove references to Gaza Genocide", despite he was the one that actually added that while he had no right to and engaged with multiple edit wars while violating <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:NPOV" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:NPOV">WP:NPOV</a> and <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WAR" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:WAR">WP:WAR</a>.</li> <li><a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User%20talk:ScottishFinnishRadish&diff=prev&oldid=1251030644">00:18, 14 October 2024</a> he acknowledged SFR warning, that SFR reverted the edits, and later SFR even warned him twice <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User%20talk:Carthradge">here</a>.</li> <li><a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User%20talk:IvanScrooge98&diff=prev&oldid=1251639513">05:55, 17 October 2024</a> just 5 hours later he resumed <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:ECR" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:ECR">WP:ECR</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:PIA" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:PIA">WP:PIA</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:NPOV" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:NPOV">WP:NPOV</a> and <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WAR" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:WAR">WP:WAR</a> violations, while ignoring SFR warnings.</li> <li><a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Ole_S%C3%A6ter&diff=prev&oldid=1254790517">18:18, 1 November 2024</a> as usual, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:ECR" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:ECR">WP:ECR</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WAR" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:WAR">WP:WAR</a> and <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:NPOV" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:NPOV">WP:NPOV</a> blatant violations.</li> <li><a href="/wiki/Ole_S%C3%A6ter" title="Ole Sæter">Link</a> now this page is ECR protected because that non-ECR editor didn't stop vandalising the page while ignoring admins warnings regarding his violations. There is a fair chance he'll keep vandalising, but in other articles.</li></ul> <dl><dt>Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any</dt> <dd></dd></dl> <dl><dt>If <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Contentious_topics" title="Wikipedia:Contentious topics">contentious topics restrictions</a> are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:CTOP#Awareness_of_contentious_topics" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:CTOP">WP:CTOP#Awareness of contentious topics</a>)</dt> <dd></dd></dl> <p><a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Carthradge&diff=next&oldid=1251006949">Here</a> </p> <dl><dt>Additional comments by editor filing complaint</dt> <dd></dd></dl> <p>These are also nearly all the edits the user has made over the past 6 months. I believe this user is <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:NOTHERE" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:NOTHERE">WP:NOTHERE</a>. </p> <dl><dt>Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested</dt> <dd></dd></dl> <ul><li><a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Carthradge&oldid=1257995379">16:10, 17 November 2024</a></li></ul> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading3"><h3 id="Discussion_concerning_Carthradge" data-mw-thread-id="h-Discussion_concerning_Carthradge-Carthradge"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Discussion_concerning_Carthradge-Carthradge"></span>Discussion concerning Carthradge<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Discussion_concerning_Carthradge-Carthradge"></span></h3><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement&action=edit&section=52" title="Edit section: Discussion concerning Carthradge"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span></div> <p><small><i>Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 <a href="/wiki/Word_count#Software" title="Word count">words</a> and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.<br/>Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.</i></small> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading4"><h4 id="Statement_by_Carthradge" data-mw-thread-id="h-Statement_by_Carthradge-Discussion_concerning_Carthradge"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Statement_by_Carthradge-Discussion_concerning_Carthradge"></span>Statement by Carthradge<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Statement_by_Carthradge-Discussion_concerning_Carthradge"></span></h4><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement&action=edit&section=53" title="Edit section: Statement by Carthradge"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span></div> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading4"><h4 id="Statement_by_(username)_5" data-mw-thread-id="h-Statement_by_(username)_5-Discussion_concerning_Carthradge"><span id="Statement_by_.28username.29_5"></span><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Statement_by_(username)_5-Discussion_concerning_Carthradge"></span>Statement by (username)<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Statement_by_(username)_5-Discussion_concerning_Carthradge"></span></h4><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement&action=edit&section=54" title="Edit section: Statement by (username)"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span></div> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading3"><h3 id="Result_concerning_Carthradge" data-mw-thread-id="h-Result_concerning_Carthradge-Carthradge"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Result_concerning_Carthradge-Carthradge"></span>Result concerning Carthradge<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Result_concerning_Carthradge-Carthradge"></span></h3><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement&action=edit&section=55" title="Edit section: Result concerning Carthradge"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span></div> <dl><dd><i>This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.</i></dd></dl> <ul><li class="mw-empty-elt"></li></ul> </td></tr></tbody></table>    </div><noscript><img src="https://login.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:CentralAutoLogin/start?type=1x1" alt="" width="1" height="1" style="border: none; position: absolute;"></noscript> <div class="printfooter" data-nosnippet="">Retrieved from "<a dir="ltr" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement&oldid=1259137520">https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement&oldid=1259137520</a>"</div></div> <div id="catlinks" class="catlinks catlinks-allhidden" data-mw="interface"><div id="mw-hidden-catlinks" class="mw-hidden-catlinks mw-hidden-cats-hidden">Hidden category: <ul><li><a href="/wiki/Category:Wikipedia_move-protected_project_pages" title="Category:Wikipedia move-protected project pages">Wikipedia move-protected project pages</a></li></ul></div></div> </div> </main> </div> <div class="mw-footer-container"> <footer id="footer" class="mw-footer" > <ul id="footer-info"> <li id="footer-info-lastmod"> This page was last edited on 23 November 2024, at 15:48<span class="anonymous-show"> (UTC)</span>.</li> <li id="footer-info-copyright">Text is available under the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Text_of_the_Creative_Commons_Attribution-ShareAlike_4.0_International_License" title="Wikipedia:Text of the Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike 4.0 International License">Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike 4.0 License</a>; additional terms may apply. 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</div><script>(RLQ=window.RLQ||[]).push(function(){mw.config.set({"wgHostname":"mw-web.codfw.main-f69cdc8f6-pqfbt","wgBackendResponseTime":179,"wgDiscussionToolsPageThreads":[{"headingLevel":2,"name":"h-Morbidthoughts-20241030055000","type":"heading","level":0,"id":"h-Bohemian_Baltimore-20241030055000","replies":[{"timestamp":"20241115132000","author":"ScottishFinnishRadish","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-ScottishFinnishRadish-20241115132000-Bohemian_Baltimore","replies":[]},{"headingLevel":3,"name":"h-Morbidthoughts-20241030055000","type":"heading","level":0,"id":"h-Request_concerning_Bohemian_Baltimore-Bohemian_Baltimore-20241030055000","replies":[{"timestamp":"20241030055000","author":"Morbidthoughts","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Morbidthoughts-20241030055000-Request_concerning_Bohemian_Baltimore","replies":[]},{"timestamp":"20241102001600","author":"Morbidthoughts","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Morbidthoughts-20241102001600-Request_concerning_Bohemian_Baltimore","replies":[{"timestamp":"20241107171700","author":"Morbidthoughts","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Morbidthoughts-20241107171700-Morbidthoughts-20241102001600","replies":[]}]}]},{"headingLevel":3,"name":"h-Raladic-20241031034800","type":"heading","level":0,"id":"h-Discussion_concerning_Bohemian_Baltimore-Bohemian_Baltimore-20241031034800","replies":[{"headingLevel":4,"name":"h-Bohemian_Baltimore-20241031093800","type":"heading","level":0,"id":"h-Statement_by_Bohemian_Baltimore-Discussion_concerning_Bohemian_Baltimore-20241031093800","replies":[{"timestamp":"20241031100200","author":"Bohemian 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