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Why This Founder Took Two Years to Launch - Shopify Canada
<!DOCTYPE html><html lang="en-CA"><head><title>Why This Founder Took Two Years to Launch - Shopify Canada</title><meta charSet="utf-8"/><meta name="viewport" content="width=device-width,initial-scale=1"/><meta name="description" content="Mel Wells was inspired by her roommate's desire for a 1920s styled swimsuit to start Beefcake Swimwear. Mel took two years to find sustainable fabrics and an ethical American manufacturer before launching. In this episode of Shopify Masters, you'll hear from Mel on why it's important to grow at your own pace. "/><meta property="fb:pages" content="20409006880"/><meta property="fb:app_id" content="847460188612391"/><meta property="og:type" content="website"/><meta property="og:site_name" content="Shopify"/><meta property="og:title" content="Why This Founder Took Two Years to Launch - Shopify Canada"/><meta property="og:description" content="Mel Wells was inspired by her roommate's desire for a 1920s styled swimsuit to start Beefcake Swimwear. Mel took two years to find sustainable fabrics and an ethical American manufacturer before launching. In this episode of Shopify Masters, you'll hear from Mel on why it's important to grow at your own pace. "/><meta property="og:image" content="https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0070/7032/articles/Masters_Beefcake_04_58f2b06c-3f54-409e-8ea5-ac2ddceeac4f.jpg?v=1729282271"/><meta property="twitter:image" content="https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0070/7032/articles/Masters_Beefcake_04_58f2b06c-3f54-409e-8ea5-ac2ddceeac4f.jpg?v=1729282271"/><meta property="og:url" content="https://www.shopify.com/ca/blog/beefcake-swimwear-time"/><meta property="twitter:card" content="summary_large_image"/><meta property="twitter:site" content="Shopify"/><meta property="twitter:account_id" content="17136315"/><meta property="twitter:title" content="Why This Founder Took Two Years to Launch - Shopify Canada"/><meta property="twitter:description" content="Mel Wells was inspired by her roommate's desire for a 1920s styled swimsuit to start Beefcake Swimwear. Mel took two years to find sustainable fabrics and an ethical American manufacturer before launching. In this episode of Shopify Masters, you'll hear from Mel on why it's important to grow at your own pace. 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online</div></a></li><li class="flex mb-6 pr-4"><a class="group inline-block w-full text-black hover:text-black" href="/ca/channels"><div class="text-base font-semi-medium"><span class="inline-block arrow-animation">Sell across channels<span class="sr-only">.</span></span></div><div class="text-sm text-shade-70 group-hover:text-black">Reach millions of shoppers and boost sales</div></a></li><li class="flex mb-6 pr-4"><a class="group inline-block w-full text-black hover:text-black" href="/ca/pos"><div class="text-base font-semi-medium"><span class="inline-block arrow-animation">Sell in person<span class="sr-only">.</span></span></div><div class="text-sm text-shade-70 group-hover:text-black">Point of Sale (POS)</div></a></li><li class="flex mb-6 pr-4"><a class="group inline-block w-full text-black hover:text-black" href="/ca/international"><div class="text-base font-semi-medium"><span class="inline-block arrow-animation">Sell globally<span class="sr-only">.</span></span></div><div class="text-sm text-shade-70 group-hover:text-black">International sales</div></a></li><li class="flex mb-6 pr-4"><a class="group inline-block w-full text-black hover:text-black" href="/ca/plus/solutions/b2b-ecommerce"><div class="text-base font-semi-medium"><span class="inline-block arrow-animation">Sell wholesale & direct<span class="sr-only">.</span></span></div><div class="text-sm text-shade-70 group-hover:text-black">Business-to-business (B2B)</div></a></li><li class="flex mb-6 pr-4"><a class="group inline-block w-full text-black hover:text-black" href="/ca/payments"><div class="text-base font-semi-medium"><span class="inline-block arrow-animation">Accept online payments<span class="sr-only">.</span></span></div><div class="text-sm text-shade-70 group-hover:text-black">Set up forms of payment</div></a></li></ul></div><div class="col-span-3 col-start-7 pt-8 -translate-y-[30px]" data-background="white"><div class="flex items-center border-shade-30 mb-6 border-b pb-4 text-lg"><span aria-hidden="true" class="-ml-2 lg:ml-0 mr-3 md:mr-3 inline-block h-10 w-10"><svg width="40" height="40" fill="none"><g clip-path="url(#white_circle_svg__a)"><path d="m12.75 19.25 5.5-5.5m1 2.5v-3.5h-3.5m-2 14.5h.5a1 1 0 0 0 1-1v-2.5a1 1 0 0 0-1-1h-.5a1 1 0 0 0-1 1v2.5a1 1 0 0 0 1 1Zm6 0h.5a1 1 0 0 0 1-1v-5.5a1 1 0 0 0-1-1h-.5a1 1 0 0 0-1 1v5.5a1 1 0 0 0 1 1Zm6 0h.5a1 1 0 0 0 1-1v-12.5a1 1 0 0 0-1-1h-.5a1 1 0 0 0-1 1v12.5a1 1 0 0 0 1 1ZM39.25 20c0 10.631-8.619 19.25-19.25 19.25S.75 30.631.75 20 9.369.75 20 .75 39.25 9.369 39.25 20Z" stroke="url(#market_svg__a)" stroke-width="1.5" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round"></path></g></svg></span><span id="subNavItem-Market" class="text-t7 inline-block">Market</span></div><ul class="pb-2" aria-labelledby="subNavItem-Market"><li class="flex mb-6 pr-4"><a class="group inline-block w-full text-black hover:text-black" href="/ca/marketing"><div class="text-base font-semi-medium"><span class="inline-block arrow-animation">Market your business<span class="sr-only">.</span></span></div><div class="text-sm text-shade-70 group-hover:text-black">Reach & retain customers</div></a></li><li class="flex mb-6 pr-4"><a class="group inline-block w-full text-black hover:text-black" href="/ca/facebook-instagram"><div class="text-base font-semi-medium"><span class="inline-block arrow-animation">Market across social<span class="sr-only">.</span></span></div><div class="text-sm text-shade-70 group-hover:text-black">Social media integrations</div></a></li><li class="flex mb-6 pr-4"><a class="group inline-block w-full text-black hover:text-black" href="/ca/email-marketing"><div class="text-base font-semi-medium"><span class="inline-block arrow-animation">Nurture customers<span class="sr-only">.</span></span></div><div class="text-sm text-shade-70 group-hover:text-black">Shopify Email</div></a></li><li class="flex mb-6 pr-4"><a class="group inline-block w-full text-black hover:text-black" href="/ca/segmentation"><div class="text-base font-semi-medium"><span class="inline-block arrow-animation">Know your audience<span class="sr-only">.</span></span></div><div class="text-sm text-shade-70 group-hover:text-black">Gain customer insights</div></a></li></ul></div><div class="col-span-3 col-start-10 pt-8 -translate-y-[30px]" data-background="white"><div class="flex items-center border-shade-30 mb-6 border-b pb-4 text-lg"><span aria-hidden="true" class="-ml-2 lg:ml-0 mr-3 md:mr-3 inline-block h-10 w-10"><svg width="40" height="40" fill="none"><g clip-path="url(#white_circle_svg__a)"><path d="M12.75 15.75c0 1.243.75 2.5 2.25 2.5s2.5-1.257 2.5-2.5c0 1.243 1 2.5 2.5 2.5s2.5-1.257 2.5-2.5c0 1.243 1 2.5 2.5 2.5s2.25-1.257 2.25-2.5m-12.5 11.5h10.5a2 2 0 0 0 2-2v-9.067a2 2 0 0 0-.179-.827l-.538-1.184A2 2 0 0 0 24.713 13h-9.425a2 2 0 0 0-1.82 1.172l-.538 1.184a2 2 0 0 0-.18.827v9.067a2 2 0 0 0 2 2Zm3-3.5a2 2 0 0 1 2-2h.5a2 2 0 0 1 2 2v3.5h-4.5v-3.5ZM39.25 20c0 10.631-8.619 19.25-19.25 19.25S.75 30.631.75 20 9.369.75 20 .75 39.25 9.369 39.25 20Z" stroke="url(#manage_svg__a)" stroke-width="1.5" stroke-linecap="round"></path></g></svg></span><span id="subNavItem-Manage" class="text-t7 inline-block">Manage</span></div><ul class="pb-2" aria-labelledby="subNavItem-Manage"><li class="flex mb-6 pr-4"><a class="group inline-block w-full text-black hover:text-black" href="/ca/manage"><div class="text-base font-semi-medium"><span class="inline-block arrow-animation">Manage your business<span class="sr-only">.</span></span></div><div class="text-sm text-shade-70 group-hover:text-black">Track sales, orders & analytics</div></a></li><li class="flex mb-6 pr-4"><a class="group inline-block w-full text-black hover:text-black" href="/ca/analytics"><div class="text-base font-semi-medium"><span class="inline-block arrow-animation">Measure your performance<span class="sr-only">.</span></span></div><div class="text-sm text-shade-70 group-hover:text-black">Analytics and Reporting</div></a></li><li class="flex mb-6 pr-4"><a class="group inline-block w-full text-black hover:text-black" href="/ca/shipping"><div class="text-base font-semi-medium"><span class="inline-block arrow-animation">Ship orders faster<span class="sr-only">.</span></span></div><div class="text-sm text-shade-70 group-hover:text-black">Shopify Shipping</div></a></li><li class="flex mb-6 pr-4"><a class="group inline-block w-full text-black hover:text-black" href="/ca/orders"><div class="text-base font-semi-medium"><span class="inline-block arrow-animation">Manage your stock & orders<span class="sr-only">.</span></span></div><div class="text-sm text-shade-70 group-hover:text-black">Inventory & order management</div></a></li><li class="flex mb-6 pr-4"><a class="group inline-block w-full text-black hover:text-black" href="/ca/capital"><div class="text-base font-semi-medium"><span class="inline-block arrow-animation">Secure business funding<span class="sr-only">.</span></span></div><div class="text-sm text-shade-70 group-hover:text-black">Shopify Capital</div></a></li></ul></div></div></div><div class="absolute bottom-0 inset-x-0 overflow-hidden z-20"><div class="container grid grid-cols-4 sm:grid-cols-8 md:grid-cols-12 gap-x-gutter gap-y-0"><div class="col-span-12 col-start-1 scheme-white:bg-shade-10 scheme-transparent-light:bg-shade-10 scheme-black:bg-shade-90 scheme-transparent-dark:bg-shade-90 relative after:absolute after:left-full after:top-[-1px] after:w-[100vw] after:h-[calc(100%+1px)] scheme-white:after:bg-shade-10 scheme-transparent-light:after:bg-shade-10 scheme-black:after:bg-shade-90 scheme-transparent-dark:after:bg-shade-90 scheme-black:text-white scheme-transparent-dark:text-white -ml-[var(--margin)] -mt-8 md:mt-0 pl-[var(--margin)] pt-6 before:content-[''] before:absolute before:right-full before:top-[-1px] before:w-[100vw] before:h-[calc(100%+1px)] scheme-white:before:bg-shade-10 scheme-transparent-light:before:bg-shade-10 scheme-black:before:bg-shade-90 scheme-transparent-dark:before:bg-shade-90 border-t scheme-white:border-shade-20 scheme-transparent-light:border-shade-20 scheme-black:border-shade-70 scheme-transparent-dark:border-shade-70 before:border-t scheme-white:before:border-shade-20 scheme-transparent-light:before:border-shade-20 scheme-black:before:border-shade-70 scheme-transparent-dark:before:border-shade-70 after:border-t scheme-white:after:border-shade-20 scheme-transparent-light:after:border-shade-20 scheme-black:after:border-shade-70 scheme-transparent-dark:after:border-shade-70 -translate-y-[30px]" data-background="white"><ul class="grid grid-cols-12 gap-x-gutter gap-y-0 pb-0"><li class="flex mb-6 pr-4 border-r border-shade-30 last:border-0 col-span-3"><a class="group inline-block w-full text-black hover:text-black" href="https://shopify.dev" aria-label="External source: Shopify Developers . Build with Shopify's powerful APIs"><div class="text-base font-semi-medium"><span class="inline-block arrow-animation">Shopify Developers<span class="sr-only">.</span></span></div><div class="text-sm text-shade-70 group-hover:text-black">Build with Shopify's powerful APIs</div></a></li><li class="flex mb-6 pr-4 border-r border-shade-30 last:border-0 col-span-3"><a class="group inline-block w-full text-black hover:text-black" href="/ca/plus"><div class="text-base font-semi-medium"><span class="inline-block arrow-animation">Plus<span class="sr-only">.</span></span></div><div class="text-sm text-shade-70 group-hover:text-black">A commerce solution for growing digital brands</div></a></li><li class="flex mb-6 pr-4 border-r border-shade-30 last:border-0 col-span-3"><a class="group inline-block w-full text-black hover:text-black" href="/ca/products"><div class="text-base font-semi-medium"><span class="inline-block arrow-animation">All Products<span class="sr-only">.</span></span></div><div class="text-sm text-shade-70 group-hover:text-black">Explore all Shopify products & features</div></a></li></ul></div></div></div></div></li><li class="mr-8 text-base"><div class="flex h-full"><a class="flex items-center hover:underline text-black hover:text-black" href="/ca/pricing">Pricing</a></div></li><li class="mr-8 text-base"><div class="relative flex h-full after:content[""] after:block after:h-[3px] after:w-full after:absolute after:bottom-0 after:scale-0 after:origin-left after:transition-transform after:duration-[350ms] after:ease-[bezier(0.66, 0.66, 0.34, 1.00)] after:motion-reduce:transition-none hover:underline after:bg-black text-black"><button type="button" class="bg-transparent whitespace-nowrap" data-component-name="Resources-toggle-open" aria-controls="ResourcesDesktopMenu" aria-expanded="false" aria-haspopup="true"><span class="mr-3 font-semi-medium">Resources</span><div aria-hidden="true" class="relative inline-block h-[7px] w-3 cursor-pointer"><div class="inline-block rounded border-b-8 h-2 w-[2px] origin-center transition-all ease-[bezier(0.66, 0.66, 0.34, 1.00)] duration-[350ms] motion-reduce:transition-none border-black bg-black -translate-x-[3px] rotate-[135deg]"></div><div class="inline-block rounded border-b-8 h-2 w-[2px] origin-center transition-all ease-[bezier(0.66, 0.66, 0.34, 1.00)] duration-[350ms] motion-reduce:transition-none border-black bg-black -rotate-[135deg]"></div></div></button></div><div id="ResourcesDesktopMenu" class="absolute inset-x-0 top-global-header z-[21] transition-transform duration-[452ms] ease-[cubic-bezier(0.26,1.00,0.48,1.00)] motion-reduce:transition-none before:absolute before:inset-x-0 before:top-0 before:w-full before:h-full before:left-0 before:shadow-xl before:pointer-events-none before:z-10 bg-white text-black bg-white text-black opacity-0 pointer-events-none -translate-y-[10px]"><div class="relative no-scrollbar overflow-y-auto overflow-x-clip max-h-[calc(100vh-72px)] z-20"><div class="container grid grid-cols-4 sm:grid-cols-8 md:grid-cols-12 gap-x-gutter gap-y-0"><div class="col-span-3 col-start-1 pt-8 -translate-y-[30px]" data-background="white"><div class="flex items-center border-shade-30 mb-6 border-b pb-4 text-lg"><span aria-hidden="true" class="-ml-2 lg:ml-0 mr-3 md:mr-3 inline-block h-10 w-10"><svg width="40" height="40" fill="none"><g clip-path="url(#help-and-support_svg__a)"><circle cx="20" cy="20" r="19.25" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="1.5"></circle><path d="M20 20v6" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round"></path><path d="M20 16.5a1.5 1.5 0 1 0 0-3 1.5 1.5 0 0 0 0 3Z" fill="currentColor"></path></g></svg></span><span id="subNavItem-Help and support" class="text-t7 inline-block">Help and support</span></div><ul class="pb-2" aria-labelledby="subNavItem-Help and support"><li class="flex mb-6 pr-4"><a class="group inline-block w-full text-black hover:text-black" href="https://help.shopify.com/en/" aria-label="External source: Help and support . Get 24/7 support"><div class="text-base font-semi-medium"><span class="inline-block arrow-animation">Help and support<span class="sr-only">.</span></span></div><div class="text-sm text-shade-70 group-hover:text-black">Get 24/7 support</div></a></li><li class="flex mb-6 pr-4"><a class="group inline-block w-full text-black hover:text-black" href="/ca/blog/topics/guides"><div class="text-base font-semi-medium"><span class="inline-block arrow-animation">How-to guides<span class="sr-only">.</span></span></div><div class="text-sm text-shade-70 group-hover:text-black">Read in-depth business guides</div></a></li><li class="flex mb-6 pr-4"><a class="group inline-block w-full text-black hover:text-black" href="/ca/blog"><div class="text-base font-semi-medium"><span class="inline-block arrow-animation">Shopify blog<span class="sr-only">.</span></span></div><div class="text-sm text-shade-70 group-hover:text-black">Business strategy tips</div></a></li></ul></div><div class="col-span-6 col-start-4 pt-8 -translate-y-[30px]" data-background="white"><div class="flex items-center border-shade-30 mb-6 border-b pb-4 text-lg"><span aria-hidden="true" class="-ml-2 lg:ml-0 mr-3 md:mr-3 inline-block h-10 w-10"><svg width="40" height="40" fill="none"><g clip-path="url(#white_circle_svg__a)" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="1.5"><circle cx="20" cy="20" r="19.25"></circle><path d="m22.023 15.04 3 3M12.75 27.25l4.25-1 9.95-9.95a1 1 0 0 0 0-1.413l-1.837-1.836a1 1 0 0 0-1.414 0L13.75 23l-1 4.25Z" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round"></path></g></svg></span><span id="subNavItem-Popular topics" class="text-t7 inline-block">Popular topics</span></div><ul class="pb-2 columns-2" aria-labelledby="subNavItem-Popular topics"><li class="flex mb-6 pr-4"><a class="group inline-block w-full text-black hover:text-black" href="/ca/blog/what-is-shopify"><div class="text-base font-semi-medium"><span class="inline-block arrow-animation">What is Shopify?<span class="sr-only">.</span></span></div><div class="text-sm text-shade-70 group-hover:text-black">How our commerce platform works</div></a></li><li class="flex mb-6 pr-4"><a class="group inline-block w-full text-black hover:text-black" href="/ca/editions"><div class="text-base font-semi-medium"><span class="inline-block arrow-animation">Shopify Editions<span class="sr-only">.</span></span></div><div class="text-sm text-shade-70 group-hover:text-black">New, innovative Shopify products</div></a></li><li class="flex mb-6 pr-4"><a class="group inline-block w-full text-black hover:text-black" href="/ca/blog/topics/founder-stories"><div class="text-base font-semi-medium"><span class="inline-block arrow-animation">Founder stories<span class="sr-only">.</span></span></div><div class="text-sm text-shade-70 group-hover:text-black">Learn from successful merchants</div></a></li><li class="flex mb-6 pr-4"><a class="group inline-block w-full text-black hover:text-black" href="/ca/blog/how-to-build-a-brand"><div class="text-base font-semi-medium"><span class="inline-block arrow-animation">Branding<span class="sr-only">.</span></span></div><div class="text-sm text-shade-70 group-hover:text-black">Build your brand from scratch</div></a></li><li class="flex mb-6 pr-4"><a class="group inline-block w-full text-black hover:text-black" href="/ca/blog/marketing-plan"><div class="text-base font-semi-medium"><span class="inline-block arrow-animation">Marketing<span class="sr-only">.</span></span></div><div class="text-sm text-shade-70 group-hover:text-black">Build a marketing plan</div></a></li><li class="flex mb-6 pr-4"><a class="group inline-block w-full text-black hover:text-black" href="/ca/blog/ecommerce-seo-beginners-guide"><div class="text-base font-semi-medium"><span class="inline-block arrow-animation">Ecommerce SEO<span class="sr-only">.</span></span></div><div class="text-sm text-shade-70 group-hover:text-black">Improve your search ranking</div></a></li><li class="flex mb-6 pr-4"><a class="group inline-block w-full text-black hover:text-black" href="/ca/blog/topics/social-media-optimization"><div class="text-base font-semi-medium"><span class="inline-block arrow-animation">Social media strategy<span class="sr-only">.</span></span></div><div class="text-sm text-shade-70 group-hover:text-black">Turn social into sales</div></a></li><li class="flex mb-6 pr-4"><a class="group inline-block w-full text-black hover:text-black" href="/ca/blog/how-to-scale-small-business"><div class="text-base font-semi-medium"><span class="inline-block arrow-animation">Business growth<span class="sr-only">.</span></span></div><div class="text-sm text-shade-70 group-hover:text-black">Scale your business</div></a></li></ul></div><div class="col-span-3 col-start-10 pt-8 scheme-white:bg-shade-10 scheme-transparent-light:bg-shade-10 scheme-black:bg-shade-90 scheme-transparent-dark:bg-shade-90 pl-10 relative after:absolute after:left-full after:top-[-1px] after:w-[100vw] after:h-[calc(100%+1px)] scheme-white:after:bg-shade-10 scheme-transparent-light:after:bg-shade-10 scheme-black:after:bg-shade-90 scheme-transparent-dark:after:bg-shade-90 scheme-black:text-white scheme-transparent-dark:text-white border-l scheme-white:border-shade-20 scheme-transparent-light:border-shade-20 scheme-black:border-shade-70 scheme-transparent-dark:border-shade-70 -translate-y-[30px]" data-background="white"><div class="flex items-center border-shade-30 mb-6 border-b pb-4 text-lg"><span aria-hidden="true" class="-ml-2 lg:ml-0 mr-3 md:mr-3 inline-block h-10 w-10"><svg width="40" height="40" fill="none"><g clip-path="url(#white_circle_svg__a)" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="1.5"><circle cx="20" cy="20" r="19.25"></circle><path d="M16.75 16.75v-2a2 2 0 0 1 2-2h2.5a2 2 0 0 1 2 2v2m-2 4v1.5a1 1 0 0 1-1 1h-.5a1 1 0 0 1-1-1v-1.5m2.5 0a1 1 0 0 0-1-1h-.5a1 1 0 0 0-1 1m2.5 0h6m-8.5 0h-6m2 6.5h10.5a2 2 0 0 0 2-2v-6.5a2 2 0 0 0-2-2h-10.5a2 2 0 0 0-2 2v6.5a2 2 0 0 0 2 2Z"></path></g></svg></span><span id="subNavItem-Essential tools" class="text-t7 inline-block">Essential tools</span></div><ul class="pb-2" aria-labelledby="subNavItem-Essential tools"><li class="flex mb-6 pr-4"><a class="group inline-block w-full text-black hover:text-black" href="/tools/logo-maker"><div class="text-base font-semi-medium"><span class="inline-block arrow-animation">Logo maker<span class="sr-only">.</span></span></div></a></li><li class="flex mb-6 pr-4"><a class="group inline-block w-full text-black hover:text-black" href="https://www.shopify.com/stock-photos" aria-label="External source: Stock photography ."><div class="text-base font-semi-medium"><span class="inline-block arrow-animation">Stock photography<span class="sr-only">.</span></span></div></a></li><li class="flex mb-6 pr-4"><a class="group inline-block w-full text-black hover:text-black" href="/ca/blog/business-plan-template"><div class="text-base font-semi-medium"><span class="inline-block arrow-animation">Business plan template<span class="sr-only">.</span></span></div></a></li><li class="flex mb-6 pr-4"><a class="group inline-block w-full text-black hover:text-black" href="https://www.linkpop.com/" aria-label="External source: Link in bio tool ."><div class="text-base font-semi-medium"><span class="inline-block arrow-animation">Link in bio tool<span class="sr-only">.</span></span></div></a></li><li class="flex mb-6 pr-4"><a class="group inline-block w-full text-black hover:text-black" href="/ca/tools/qr-code-generator"><div class="text-base font-semi-medium"><span class="inline-block arrow-animation">QR code generator<span class="sr-only">.</span></span></div></a></li></ul></div></div></div></div></li><li class="mr-8 text-base"><div class="flex h-full"><a class="flex items-center hover:underline text-black hover:text-black" href="/ca/enterprise">Enterprise</a></div></li><li class="mr-8 text-base"><div class="relative flex h-full after:content[""] after:block after:h-[3px] after:w-full after:absolute after:bottom-0 after:scale-0 after:origin-left after:transition-transform after:duration-[350ms] after:ease-[bezier(0.66, 0.66, 0.34, 1.00)] after:motion-reduce:transition-none hover:underline after:bg-black text-black"><button type="button" class="bg-transparent whitespace-nowrap" data-component-name="What’s new-toggle-open" aria-controls="What’s newDesktopMenu" aria-expanded="false" aria-haspopup="true"><span class="mr-3 font-semi-medium">What’s new</span><div aria-hidden="true" class="relative inline-block h-[7px] w-3 cursor-pointer"><div class="inline-block rounded border-b-8 h-2 w-[2px] origin-center transition-all ease-[bezier(0.66, 0.66, 0.34, 1.00)] duration-[350ms] motion-reduce:transition-none border-black bg-black -translate-x-[3px] rotate-[135deg]"></div><div class="inline-block rounded border-b-8 h-2 w-[2px] origin-center transition-all ease-[bezier(0.66, 0.66, 0.34, 1.00)] duration-[350ms] motion-reduce:transition-none border-black bg-black -rotate-[135deg]"></div></div></button></div><div id="What’s newDesktopMenu" class="absolute inset-x-0 top-global-header z-[21] transition-transform duration-[452ms] ease-[cubic-bezier(0.26,1.00,0.48,1.00)] motion-reduce:transition-none before:absolute before:inset-x-0 before:top-0 before:w-full before:h-full before:left-0 before:shadow-xl before:pointer-events-none before:z-10 bg-white text-black bg-white text-black opacity-0 pointer-events-none -translate-y-[10px]"><div class="relative no-scrollbar overflow-y-auto overflow-x-clip max-h-[calc(100vh-72px)] z-20"><div class="container grid grid-cols-4 sm:grid-cols-8 md:grid-cols-12 gap-x-gutter gap-y-0"><div class="col-span-12 col-start-1 pt-8 -translate-y-[30px]" data-background="white"><ul class="grid grid-cols-12 gap-x-gutter gap-y-0 pb-0"><li class="flex mb-6 pr-4 border-r border-shade-30 last:border-0 col-span-3"><span aria-hidden="true" class="-ml-2 lg:ml-0 mr-3 md:mr-3 inline-block h-10 w-10"><svg width="41" 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tablet-xl:h-[140px] desktop:h-[180px] right-0 tablet-xl:right-[-20px] desktop:right-[20px] top-[-25px] tablet-xl:top-[-30px] desktop:top-[-40px]"><img src="https://cdn.shopify.com/b/shopify-brochure2-assets/05383e2e9b6568812f1ccc7bbc28ac3d.webp?originalWidth=500&originalHeight=641" alt="" loading="lazy" decoding="async" width="500" height="641" srcSet="https://cdn.shopify.com/b/shopify-brochure2-assets/05383e2e9b6568812f1ccc7bbc28ac3d.webp?originalWidth=500&originalHeight=641&width=200 200w, https://cdn.shopify.com/b/shopify-brochure2-assets/05383e2e9b6568812f1ccc7bbc28ac3d.webp?originalWidth=500&originalHeight=641&width=400 400w"/></div><div><img class="absolute rounded-[15px] z-10 w-[90px] tablet-xl:w-[136px] desktop:w-[175px] bottom-[20px] tablet-xl:bottom-[-50px] desktop:bottom-[-70px] right-[-50px] tablet-xl:right-[-70px] desktop:right-[-100px]" src="https://cdn.shopify.com/b/shopify-brochure2-assets/2baeeeb3c9bab2dfbfac6428fad929e1.webp?originalWidth=500&originalHeight=641" alt="" loading="lazy" decoding="async" width="500" height="641" srcSet="https://cdn.shopify.com/b/shopify-brochure2-assets/2baeeeb3c9bab2dfbfac6428fad929e1.webp?originalWidth=500&originalHeight=641&width=200 200w, https://cdn.shopify.com/b/shopify-brochure2-assets/2baeeeb3c9bab2dfbfac6428fad929e1.webp?originalWidth=500&originalHeight=641&width=400 400w"/></div><div class="sm:inset-[auto_0_var(--space-2xl)_auto] sm:bg-transparent sm:pt-9 sm:[&>div>button]:-top-9"></div></div></div><article id="article" itemscope="" itemType="https://schema.org/Article" class="featured-blogs__section"><meta itemProp="mainEntityOfPage" content="/ca/blog/beefcake-swimwear-time"/><meta itemProp="dateModified" content="2019-08-13T03:30:00.000Z"/><div class="relative"><div class="py-10 tablet:text-center desktop:pt-16 desktop:pb-16" data-mode="light"><div class="container desktop:w-9/12 desktop:mx-auto"><div class="uppercase text-shade-100 font-aktivgroteskextended text-[12px] leading-[14px] tracking-[0.01em] font-semibold tablet-xl:font-sans tablet-xl:text-[11px] tablet-xl:leading-[13px] tablet:tracking-[0.5px] tablet:font-bold pb-2"><a href="/ca/blog" class="no-underline hover:text-link-light-hover topic-link">blog</a><span class="richtext px-2.5 text-xs">|</span><a href="/ca/blog/topics/podcasts" class="no-underline hover:text-link-light-hover topic-link">Podcasts</a></div><h1 class="richtext font-medium tracking-[-0.02em] text-[28px] leading-9 tablet-xl:text-[40px] tablet-xl:leading-[48px]" itemProp="headline">Why This Founder Took Two Years to Launch</h1><p class="richtext font-normal tracking-[-0.02em] text-[18px] leading-[26px] tablet-xl:text-[20px] tablet-xl:leading-7 desktop:text-[22px] desktop:leading-8 mt-4 desktop:mt-4">Mel Wells was inspired by her roommate's desire for a 1920s styled swimsuit to start Beefcake Swimwear. Mel took two years to find sustainable fabrics and an ethical American manufacturer before launching. In this episode of Shopify Masters, you'll hear from Mel on why it's important to grow at your own pace.</p><div class="lg:hidden mt-4 tablet-xl:mt-12"><div class="gap-x-1 flex flex-wrap font-bold sm:justify-center !text-lg text-legacy-gray-90 last:[&_>div]:justify-start sm:last:[&_>div]:justify-center"> <!-- -->by <span itemProp="author" itemscope="" itemType="https://schema.org/Person"><a href="/ca/blog/authors/felix-thea" class="no-underline" itemProp="url"><span itemProp="name">Felix Thea</span></a></span></div><div class="text-body-sm text-shade-50">Published on<!-- --> <time>Aug 13, 2019</time></div></div></div></div><div class="tablet:container desktop:w-9/12 desktop:mx-auto overflow-hidden flex justify-center"><img class="" src="https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0070/7032/articles/Masters_Beefcake_04_58f2b06c-3f54-409e-8ea5-ac2ddceeac4f.jpg?v=1729282271&originalWidth=1848&originalHeight=782" alt="portrait of beefcake swimwear founder Mel Wells" loading="eager" decoding="async" width="1848" height="782" srcSet="https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0070/7032/articles/Masters_Beefcake_04_58f2b06c-3f54-409e-8ea5-ac2ddceeac4f.jpg?v=1729282271&originalWidth=1848&originalHeight=782&width=200 200w, https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0070/7032/articles/Masters_Beefcake_04_58f2b06c-3f54-409e-8ea5-ac2ddceeac4f.jpg?v=1729282271&originalWidth=1848&originalHeight=782&width=400 400w, https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0070/7032/articles/Masters_Beefcake_04_58f2b06c-3f54-409e-8ea5-ac2ddceeac4f.jpg?v=1729282271&originalWidth=1848&originalHeight=782&width=600 600w, https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0070/7032/articles/Masters_Beefcake_04_58f2b06c-3f54-409e-8ea5-ac2ddceeac4f.jpg?v=1729282271&originalWidth=1848&originalHeight=782&width=800 800w, https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0070/7032/articles/Masters_Beefcake_04_58f2b06c-3f54-409e-8ea5-ac2ddceeac4f.jpg?v=1729282271&originalWidth=1848&originalHeight=782&width=1000 1000w, 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itemProp="articleBody"><div class="hidden leadpage-container leadpage__image leadpage__content marketing-button hide--mobile block--bordered"></div><div><p style="text-align: left;">Mel Wells was inspired by her roommate's desire for a 1920s styled swimsuit to start <a href="https://www.beefcakeswimwear.com/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer">Beefcake Swimwear</a>. Initially sewing pieces herself, Mel then took the time to research and find sustainable fabrics and an ethical American manufacturer. </p> <p>Taking two years before launching, Beefcake Swimwear is a true reflection of Mel's dedication to thoughtfully produce androgynous vintage-inspired swimwear. </p> <p>In this episode of Shopify Masters, you'll hear from Mel Wells of Beefcake Swimwear on why it's important to grow at your own pace and how to create a brand that authentically reflects who you are. </p><div id="text-cta" class="hidden lg:block"></div> <meta charset="utf-8"><meta charset="utf-8"><meta charset="utf-8"> <blockquote class="border-l-2 pl-4 font-aktivgroteskextended text-xl font-medium tracking-tight my-12 [&_p]:mb-4 [&_cite]:font-aktivgroteskextended [&_cite]:text-sm [&_cite]:not-italic [&_cite]:font-medium [&_cite]:tracking-[-0.0175rem] [&_footer]:mt-4 [&_cite::before]:content-["–"] [&_cite::before]:mr-1 border-blog-highlight"> <p><span>I think there's this false narrative of you have to grow, you have to grow fast, you have to grow big.</span></p> </blockquote> <h3>Tune in to learn</h3> <meta charset="utf-8"> <ul> <li>How you can still succeed in business when you’re not a risk-taker</li> <li>What to do if you’re an entrepreneur that likes starting businesses but tend to jump around</li> <li>Why hiring a PR agency is a worthwhile investment </li> </ul> <iframe height="200px" width="100%" frameborder="no" scrolling="no" seamless="" src="https://player.simplecast.com/e074aeee-0d61-4c2f-b9f3-ee64f39208ad?dark=true"></iframe> <div style="text-align: center;"><strong>Don't miss an episode! Subscribe to Shopify Masters.</strong></div> <center> </center> <h3>Show Notes</h3> <ul> <li> <strong>Store:</strong> <a href="https://www.beefcakeswimwear.com/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer">Beefcake Swimwear</a> </li> <li> <strong>Social Profiles:</strong> <a href="https://www.facebook.com/beefcakeswimwear" target="_blank" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer">Facebook</a>, <a href="https://twitter.com/beefcake_swim" target="_blank" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer">Twitter</a>, <a href="http://instagram.com/beefcakeswimwear" target="_blank">Instagram</a> </li> <li> <strong>Recommendations:</strong> <a href="https://www.jld-studios.com/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer">JLD Studios</a>, <a href="https://www.rebelliouspr.com/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer">Rebellious PR</a> </li> </ul> <ul></ul> <p style="text-align: center;"><strong>Transcript </strong></p> <p><strong>Felix: </strong>Today I'm joined by Mel Wells from Beefcake Swimwear. Beefcake Swimwear makes androgynous one-piece 1920s swimsuits in the USA with sustainable manufacturing and inclusive sizing. Was started 2017 and is based out of Missoula, Montana. Welcome, Mel.</p> <p><strong>Mel: </strong>Thank you. I'm happy to be here.</p> <p><strong>Felix: </strong>Awesome. So all of this started with you on a vintage sewing machine in your basement. And it says here that you attempted to replicate a 1920 swimsuit for your roommate. So what were you doing making 1920s swimsuits?</p> <p><strong>Mel: </strong>Well, she really wanted one, but of course they're all vintage and they're all made of wool, which is not great for swimming in. And I grew up like a nerd sewing my own clothes because I was so tall. So I was like, "I know how to do this. I know how to sew clothes. I'll try making one for you." Turns out sewing stretchy fabric is terrible. But along the way, a bunch of other folks said that they were also interested in 1920s swimsuits. And so I started to think it might be a viable business idea. I just knew that I didn't want to do the sewing.</p> <p><strong>Felix: </strong>Right. So first of all, I didn't know that back then it was made out of wool. I see all those photos, but I have no idea that they must've felt so uncomfortable, but I guess they didn't know any better back then. So that's interesting. So when you first made this, I guess very, very first edition, this very first prototype. Were you looking to seek feedback to see if there was a viable business out of it or how did people start noticing your creation?</p> <p><strong>Mel: </strong>It was mostly because I was complaining about it. I lived in a house with a bunch of roommates and was just sewing it in the living room. And so folks would come by and see what I was doing. Or I was talking to my friends that I was making one for, and she was talking to other people. So this weird word of mouth started up where it seemed to be that everybody was really interested in a swimsuit that was masculine, that didn't have a skirt on it but still had some coverage.</p> <p><strong>Felix: </strong>Got it. So you recognize that there might be a viable business model out of it because people were expressing interest in it. And you'd launched us on Kickstarter, which we'll get to in a bit. Did you ever do any validation before that? Did you try selling in any other ways before you took that leap towards investing your time and resource into a Kickstarter campaign?</p> <p><strong>Mel: </strong>I really didn't. I figured a Kickstarter was a low-risk way to see if it would actually work. I did spend about two years and about, I'd say about $5,000 of my own money just researching and prototyping. So I lucked out.</p> <p><strong>Mel: </strong>I found this place in Portland, Oregon that was a manufacturer of activewear that had zero minimums, which in retail is like insane. So I contacted them and asked them about prototyping just to see, cause I knew that this was a good idea. I just didn't know how to do it. And so they were super helpful. It's JLD-Studios in Portland, Oregon and they only do leggings now, but I snuck in and got them to do my swimsuits.</p> <p><strong>Mel: </strong>And we tested on, I think I mailed suits and had probably about 10 or 12 people across the country. Just friends and friends of friends. Try them on, give me feedback on how they fit. Just so I could get as close to, well not perfect, but as close to what I wanted as possible when we did finally launched the Kickstarter.</p> <p><strong>Felix: </strong>Okay. So two years, $5,000 of your own money. This is a pretty big investment for time and money wise for someone that's just ... first of all, was this your first attempt at starting a business?</p> <p><strong>Mel: </strong>I've always been entrepreneurial. In fifth grade, the first time I got called to the principal's office was for selling candy on the playground.</p> <p><strong>Felix: </strong>Rite of passage for an entrepreneur.</p> <p><strong>Mel: </strong>I have a long history.</p> <p><strong>Felix: </strong>Yeah. But even then, two years and 5,000. I mean, I think the two years part is even more of an investment where I would see a lot of, I think that's an accomplishment because I think a lot of people will spend two years or would try to spend two years or something and give up along the way. So you had a plan, obviously, you had this vision in mind for what you wanted, at least perfect to your vision. What were you looking for? What was it that you wanted to see before you felt comfortable moving forward and eventually go on Kickstarter?</p> <p><strong>Mel: </strong>For me, it was so slow because I'm really into research and I'm very much, I like to know what I'm jumping into before I actually take a leap. So part of that was just personal style. I wasn't like struggling for two years. It was researching and doing all this in my spare time. I worked at a nonprofit where my day job was more than full time. And I'm also a little bit of a writer so I had other hobbies going on. So it was just was where I could put time into on the side was part of the reason it took so long.</p> <p><strong>Mel: </strong>For me, I just wanted to make sure that I did it right. I really cared about the people that I would be making these swimsuits for, and I wanted to do it sustainably. And to just kind of grow slow. It really wasn't about making money, it was about doing this thing and doing it right.</p> <p><strong>Felix: </strong>Right. Yeah. I think this is concept what you talk about in the pre-interview, which I definitely want to touch on about going slow, going at a pace that makes sense for you is an important one because a lot of people get burnt out if they think that there's this timeline. They're watching the clock and trying to get somewhere sooner than what's maybe comfortable for them. So how do you keep the momentum going though? Because I think there's this also other side which is where you go enough, you start feeling the friction, you start feeling the drag more of this thing slowing down. [inaudible] basically burning out. Right. And then in any other way. So how did you keep the momentum going to make sure that you were at least stay on track even though you were going at a slower pace?</p> <p><strong>Mel: </strong>I think it was just the excitement whenever I talk to other people about this project. Everyone that I talked to from the initial fitters, the fit testers were just so excited about the swimsuit. It helped me be really excited. And then once we launched the Kickstarter, that blew up and the feedback was incredible, and we had an original goal of raising $10,000. I knew that was my minimum viable make this thing work and not lose my shirt amount. And we raised 35,000. And so that was thrilling.</p> <p><strong>Mel: </strong>And then along the way, we've had people email us saying, "This is the first time I've been in a swimsuit in 10 years," or, "I cried when I put this on because it felt so good." The feedback that we get from folks wearing the swimsuits is what really keeps me excited and motivated even when this is still a part-time job for me. It's still in addition to my day job evenings and weekends, just whenever I can sneak it in.</p> <p><strong>Felix: </strong>Right. I think that's an important thing to look for. Where the journey can be very lonely, especially if you're doing this by yourself, which you are in your case where you're the sole employee, solo founder of this thing. So what you look for is that you look towards the community, right? You look towards the people's lives that you're improving and then using that as fuel. You're saying, sometimes you just need one person, that you're improving their life. It makes it worthwhile for you to spend the time on this. So two years again that you spent on this, how many iterations did it take before you got to that point where you felt comfortable moving forward from this <a href="/ca/blog/what-is-research-and-development" target="_blank">research and development</a> phase?</p> <p><strong>Mel: </strong>Well there was my initial terrible one and then there was the, I think we had two or three that JLD made first that I tried on. I had my friend try on, I had my girlfriend at the time try on. And then we had some feedback and we did one more iteration, and sent those all over the country and had those folks try them on. And then we went for it.</p> <p><strong>Mel: </strong>So we did all the seats with the Kickstarter. We did about, I think it was 350 suits. And then we started selling online. But then I started getting feedback from folks who had supported the Kickstarter that they wanted improvements. And I always viewed the Kickstarter as help us start this thing, give us feedback, help us make it the best product possible.</p> <p><strong>Mel: </strong>So I did a survey of all our Kickstarter backers and tried to really listen to them and see what was working for folks and what wasn't. And one big thing that we did that we stopped doing was a shelf bra. It just didn't work well enough for enough people. So we stopped doing that and we started lining the entire front of the suit. It added probably a couple of dollars worth of material and labor to each suit, but to me, it was worth it.</p> <p><strong>Mel: </strong>We also switched fabrics to something more sustainable. The fabric we use now is imported from Italy. It's some of the most sustainable polyester fabric that you can find. It's 100% recycled polyester. And then the Lycra spandex content is chlorine resistant. So it's some of the best fabric you can find in the world. And so we started making our suits with that fabric, lining the front. Then I felt like okay, now we've really got it right and I feel confident about it.</p> <p><strong>Felix: </strong>Yeah. And so even to this day, are you still getting feedback on ways to improve the product and are planning on implementing those today?</p> <p><strong>Mel: </strong>The bust support is one thing that we have not figured out that a lot of people ask for. It's kind of an engineering problem where you have to find something that will bind up top but will also fit over a person's hips. And we have not figured that out yet in this specific type of swimsuits. So that's something that is always on my mind. But that's probably a few years down the road, to be honest. It's a lot of money to prototype, and right now we're pouring all of our money into just keeping our inventory in stock.</p> <p><strong>Felix: </strong>Got it. Yeah. I think that the important point where there is no, this finalized stage of your product or finalized stage of your business. You're always constantly trying to make improvements or take feedback and implement it, or spending time trying to solve things. I think it's an important point where a lot of times people, "I'm going to launch on Kickstarter, I get the money and I sell the products and that's it." It's usually not the case, right? If you don't like solving problems, you're in the wrong field. This a constant game. I'm sure we'll get into that in a little bit.</p> <p><strong>Felix: </strong>But yeah. Let's talk about Kickstarter. So you mentioned earlier $10,000 was the goal and you ended up raising over 35,000 from 422 backers. So how did it happen? What were you doing pre-Kickstarter now you look back on it, that helped you get this campaign successfully funded?</p> <p><strong>Mel: </strong>I think a lot of my research probably helps. Part of that two years before launching was looking at other Kickstarters, seeing what was successful, seeing who failed, backing some, seeing what rewards I have got, how soon they set their awards. And just making sure that I knew what a really good campaign entailed. Because it seems, I think at the surface level it can seem really easy. But a Kickstarter campaign is a difficult thing to execute and execute well. I get people asking me all the time, "How did you do it?" And I'm like, "Two years of work." And then they don't email me back.</p> <p><strong>Felix: </strong>No. They want to know how you did it overnight is the idea that they want to find out from you. So what were some of the things that you found in about what made a campaign successful? If you were to launch another campaign, what are some things that you'd want to definitely include to at least I guess, shift the odds into your favor?</p> <p><strong>Mel: </strong>Yeah, I think for me having a prototype that was done and like in the video so you could see it in action is really important. I saw a lot of folks who just didn't have anything as a consumer. Reading these Kickstarters campaigns, it didn't seem viable to me or it just didn't seem quite real. So any question whether or not you can pull this off. You have to be able to say, "Yes, we've done it. Here it is."</p> <p><strong>Mel: </strong>The other one was the human connection. For me, my video was not slick. I did it in my office, in my apartment. But it was for me it was very authentic and from my heart. "This is why I'm doing this. This is the person you are giving the money to." And I try really hard to continue that very personal human connection where it's not like I'm the boss and you are my consumers. It's like I'm a person doing this thing that I hope you will like. I'm looking for fans more than customers.</p> <p><strong>Felix: </strong>That's a good perspective. So are there things in your research that you definitely want to avoid including or during your campaign that is likely to cause failure?</p> <p><strong>Mel: </strong>I'd say communicate as often as you possibly can. It's a lot of work, but just a little note to people so they're not hanging really helps. And then sometimes I'd answer something and then we'd see a bump in backers. So I think that people really look to what you're saying even during the campaign to see whether or not they want to support you.</p> <p><strong>Felix: </strong>Got it. And you mentioned that one of the factors that you looked at was the time I guess, the timeline between backing it and getting the, I guess the end of the campaign and getting the reward. Was there an optimal timeline that you saw?</p> <p><strong>Mel: </strong>It was within six months, I'd say. You got to turn things around pretty quickly. And I understand some folks would sell crazy amounts, and I didn't want ... confession, I didn't want to succeed too much because I didn't want to outstrip my ability to deliver. And so I did a shorter campaign. My motto is always under-promise and then over-deliver. So I knew how many suits my manufacturer could make per month and I tried to time the delivery of those rewards accordingly so that everybody wasn't backing and thinking they were all going to get their rewards in the first three months if that makes sense.</p> <p><strong>Felix: </strong>That does. Got it. So once the campaign ended, you successfully broke through, tripled your goal and raised $35,000. What was next? What happened after the campaign ended?</p> <p><strong>Mel: </strong>We started making suits.</p> <p><strong>Felix: </strong>You mentioned that you already had a manufactured lined up at a time, right?</p> <p><strong>Mel: </strong>Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I had their timeline lined up. And I knew that the very end of the campaign, some folks' suits, it was going to be pushing up into October, which is kind of a crappy time to be getting a swimsuit in the United States. But again, I just tried to be as super communicative with folks and let them know, "Hey, I have this manufacturer. They're small, they're woman-owned, they're in the United States. I really believe them and trust them, and enjoy partnering with them. So that's who I'm using. I'm not going to outsource this. You're just going to have to be patient."</p> <p><strong>Felix: </strong>Right. Makes sense. Okay, so you went and manufactured that. Your timeline was also, I guess on the reward that had the longest time. And that was six months?</p> <p><strong>Mel: </strong>Yeah, I think our campaign ended, I think it was April 5th, and I think our final suits shipped a week before thanksgiving, something like that. And then we launched our online store in November. Which is again, such a weird time to launch a swimsuit company online. But it was nice because we didn't have much inventory. We started with about 100 suits because we had spent so much time making all the Kickstarter rewards that it was actually good because then we didn't sell out immediately.</p> <p><strong>Felix: </strong>Okay. Got it. So you basically went almost dark for a bit and just focused on manufacturing these suits to fulfill the orders from the Kickstarter. And then once you got to that phase, you then launched your website with some inventory about 100 suits, and you went live then. What informed your decision on what kind of inventory to stock?</p> <p><strong>Mel: </strong>Well, I'm a spreadsheet nerd. So I made a spreadsheet of which sizes and styles sold on the Kickstarter and then just used that as my guide when I was ordering more suits to keep in stock.</p> <p><strong>Felix: </strong>You basically extrapolated the percent, the breakdown of percentages of people of different sizes over 100 pieces. Okay, got it. Did that match up? The reality between what you sold on Kickstarter matched up with the reality of what you sold on your website?</p> <p><strong>Mel: </strong>Oh yeah. Yeah, yeah. That was a really good indicator of what was going to sell. And even now as I launch new suits, I can align the sizes that I think will sell with what sold previously. Sometimes we get that wrong. Often, we've been marketing more towards plus-sized consumers. So I've been sold out of the larger sizes a lot this summer, unfortunately. But it's been pretty predictive.</p> <p><strong>Felix: </strong>Got it. So when you are selling on your own site, I guess that very first month or so that you were launching your own site, were you doing anything at that time to promote it? How are people finding out about it now that the buzz from Kickstarter might've started to fizzle out?</p> <p><strong>Mel: </strong>It was still just word of mouth. We have an Instagram that has been pretty successful I think. And it was cute because we started getting photos from folks wearing their swimsuits, which was awesome and so fun to see. So I just started re-posting those.</p> <p><strong>Mel: </strong>I think I maybe spent $500 the first year on advertising because we had no budget. Every penny we made went right back into making more inventory.</p> <p><strong>Felix: </strong>Got it. Makes Sense. So you mentioned that your process for launching new suits, I want to learn more about this. How do you decide what to design? How do you know what you should be focused on producing next?</p> <p><strong>Mel: </strong>I try to listen to folks. In one of those Kickstarter surveys, I asked everybody what colors they would most like to see. And those were green and purple. So the next suits that we launched were a green one and a purple one. And honestly, the green one I launched because it was the suit that I wanted. The stone fox, it's very seventies. I was a little worried. I was curious to see how it would go. And that's become our second bestseller after the original in black. So that was pretty exciting to see.</p> <p><strong>Felix: </strong>Makes sense. So you mentioned that you do something interesting, which is that whenever you do sell a product and you ship it out, you insert a card with every purchase asking folks to tag you on social. How has this worked out so far?</p> <p><strong>Mel: </strong>It's been awesome. We do have folks who are really enthusiastic about our suits. It's so funny, we just did a photoshoot the other day and we had a very diverse lineup of people, very different body types and styles, and genders. And they all put on their swimsuits, and people literally walk out of the dressing room dancing. And it's like when was the last time you put on a swimsuit and were excited about it? Swimsuit shopping is horrible. I was worried. I was like maybe you folks won't want to tag us cause posting a picture of yourself in a swimsuit feels kind of vulnerable. But so far people love them and feel comfortable, and strong, and confident in them. And that has been fantastic to see.</p> <p><strong>Felix: </strong>That's amazing. Yeah. The photos on your site are awesome, the product photos and the lifestyle shots are awesome. How was that done? Was that done all in-house? You hire help with creating a photoshoot like this?</p> <p><strong>Mel: </strong>Well with our shoestring budget, our first photoshoot was all friends. Actually, our last one was pretty much all friends too. And then we hire a local photographer and we try to be really cognizant of having a very diverse lineup. And that's really representative of a wide spectrum of folks. And that's all, just we hire a photographer. My wife actually pretty much handles the photoshoots. She herds the cats, and then we just go have a fun party on the beach and take photos.</p> <p><strong>Felix: </strong>That's amazing. So I want to get back to this idea of how you are going at your own pace. And you mentioned that you guys have grown thoughtfully and sustainably, and you're more interested in disrupting the exploitative, harmful business of fast fashion and creating a quality product than you are in terms of making loads of quick cash or being on Shark Tank or trying to get all this buzz on TV. And that's the approach that you want to take. And I think there's again an important counterpoint to the more often seen and heard advice of entrepreneurship, which is to just live on ramen and just spent all your money and stress out every night about your business. Otherwise, you're not an entrepreneur. You're talking about taking a much more mindful and I think saying an approach to running a business. Tell us about, was that difficult for you when you're hearing so much, I guess advise counter to that?</p> <p><strong>Mel: </strong>Yeah. It's been an interesting journey because imposter syndrome is real. I just want to put that out there. And I am cautious because I didn't want to put all my eggs in this basket. I've always known with swimsuits H&M could do a suit like this tomorrow and charge so much less and just kill us. I mean, that would be it. Except for I hope folks would understand the way that we make things and the quality of our product. But let's be honest, retail is cutthroat and it's to me, not somewhere I wanted to invest my whole life. And so it's always kind of been like let's do this thing. Let's do it extremely well, and let's see where it goes.</p> <p><strong>Mel: </strong>And I also, I think there's this false narrative of you have to grow, you have to grow fast, you have to grow big. And I watch companies grow and then die, and then grow and then die because they have so much debt that just one thing makes them really unstable. So for me, it's always been about being really sustainable, not just in an environmentally friendly way, but in an energy way. In a money way for me.</p> <p><strong>Mel: </strong>We've never been in debt. We took out a very, very tiny loan our first year for a little cash flow so we could get some inventory. But other than that, we've been in the black since we started, and that is extremely important to me. I'm not really a risk-taker when it comes to businesses and I think that you're right, there's this narrative of you have to otherwise it's not real. But this is real, and it feels good.</p> <p><strong>Felix: </strong>Yeah. I think I really want to hear more of your story about this, not a risk-taker because again, this is very counter to mainstream entrepreneurship storylines where you have to take a lot of risks. So you're not a risk-taker. Tell us more about your experience because of your comment with that personality, right, where you are risk-averse. Because I think a lot of people hesitate to go into entrepreneurship or start their own business because they think they don't have the guts to take big risks. But you are demonstrating that you can start a business, go at your own pace, and not take crazy risks. Just tell us about maybe the pros and cons of that. What have you been able to do that you think that you would not be able to do? If you weren't so I guess careful with your approach to starting a business.</p> <p><strong>Mel: </strong>Yeah, I think my work-life balance has been a lot better. I'm not eating ramen and living with 14 roommates. I was in my thirties when I started this. I was done with that lifestyle. And I'd been able to have a social life. I would not recommend doing a Kickstarter while you're also planning a wedding, but I did that.</p> <p><strong>Felix: </strong>Which one was harder?</p> <p><strong>Mel: </strong>Oh my God. Probably the wedding, honestly. But I don't know. For me, it's just been a matter of that's my life. I like having a lot of different projects happening. I think I would get bored and burnt out if this was my whole life. And again, I feel like an imposter because I'm not constantly on Instagram talking about entrepreneur life and talking up my business. Because it's not the whole thing about who I am. I'm not saving the world. I know that. I'm just making swimsuits that hopefully make a good, positive difference in people's lives.</p> <p><strong>Mel: </strong>Would it be cool to make $1 million? Yeah. I don't hate money. But I also just don't want to ... I think it's because I got married honestly and I wanted to be a responsible partner. I didn't want to risk all of my money because it would affect my partner doing this thing. So I think she probably helped me be a little more reasonable about what I could and couldn't take on. And that has been really nice. I think I would probably hate this business if it was taking over my life and causing me to lose sleep, and stressing me out all the time. I love that it's really enjoyable, and I think the pace is part of the reason I enjoy it.</p> <p><strong>Felix: </strong>Right. I think it's kind of a balancing act, right? It's not just that you can just start working for a month because you feel like taking a break. There's still a balance of at least maintaining it. Right? There's at least maintenance mode. So what are some things I maybe you said no to? I guess this is more in the concept. What are some opportunities that maybe you said no to or some opportunities that you saw that you decided not to pursue because you wanted to make sure that you wouldn't hate your business at the end of the day?</p> <p><strong>Mel: </strong>I mean, marketing. I just haven't done that much. We finally hired a PR firm this summer and that's been phenomenal because it's something I don't enjoy, but it's something I didn't have money for until this year. And they are really helping us grow, and it's so fun to have people to talk to besides my wife, who are excited about the business, and understand what we're doing, and are trying to help us grow. I wish I could have afforded that the first year because it's been a game-changer for my energy levels and my enjoyment of what I'm doing. So yeah, I said no to that the first year because we just couldn't afford it. And that has made a huge positive difference in what we're doing.</p> <p><strong>Felix: </strong>Right. I'm sure it varies from industry to industry, maybe from city to city, but what are some budgets that you'd need to at least have before you can even think about hiring a PR firm or PR agency?</p> <p><strong>Mel: </strong>Well budgeting wise, I just wanted to do my taxes the first year and see what we even had leftover. Our suits are $42 to make, and that's just fabric and labor. And so a $99 price point is kind of insane in the retail world. And I try to be really transparent about that so that whenever someone objects to our price point because I understand it's way more expensive than Target or Walmart or something. I try to explain no, this is what manufacturing that isn't exploiting people looks like. This is how everything should be priced so that the folks who are making it are receiving fair wages. We're not exploiting the earth, we're not exploiting resources. We're doing this.</p> <p><strong>Mel: </strong>So that first year, we barely were a six-figure company, which all my family was like, "Oh my gosh, you're going to quit your job." And I was like no because our costs are so high, the actual take-home was much lower. And I wasn't sure how taxes were going to work out that first year. So I just kind of didn't know what we even had to work out or to work with. So after we got our tax returns back this year and I was like, "Oh cool, we made a profit last year. I can hire advertising this year."</p> <p><strong>Felix: </strong>That's cool. So basically you definitely need to have, you can't really invest in this rough to bat in the PR agency. It makes sense for you to look at this as a way to celebrate your growth once you have some kind of sustainable business at first. So tell us about what it's like to work with someone that works, I guess with a PR agency. What's their job? What do they do for you?</p> <p><strong>Mel: </strong>Yeah. So we work with a company called Rebellious PR and they are in Portland, Oregon. And they are super queer-friendly, woman-owned, amazing company. And I was also really, really picky about who I wanted to work with, and these guys were my dream team because I feel like they understand what we're doing.</p> <p><strong>Mel: </strong>And they have been accessing reporters that I don't have time or interest in trying to send out a million press releases to everybody. But they have those contacts, they know their writing styles. They can spend time doing that. So that was my number one awesome please do this for me request.</p> <p><strong>Mel: </strong>A fun thing they have been doing is finding some influencers to wear swimsuits. So, Jess who was on Queer Eye, she wore our new suit, the charmer, the rainbow pride suit. And that was the first post anywhere, it was on Instagram. That's how we launched our suit. And that was so fun because I love Jess and the response was so positive. And that would have never happened without these guys.</p> <p><strong>Felix: </strong>That's awesome. Okay. So they found these influencers for you? They found people that work with publications that might want to write about you. What's your involvement? When you hire a PR agency, I'm sure it's not just the wipe your hands clean and they do all your marketing for you. What do you have to do to contribute to the success?</p> <p><strong>Mel: </strong>We have a weekly phone call where we chat about things. We email a couple of times a week. I enjoy writing. I consider myself a writer, so I've been putting together some pitches or just some ideas for pitches for them to send out. And mostly, I'd say just talking through how we want to brand things. And they have little homework assignments for me sometimes. They were actually the ones who connected me with this podcast. So they've been helping me figure out how to position the brand and talk about it and get it out in the world.</p> <p><strong>Felix: </strong>Got it. So I want to talk about the spreadsheets that you seem to love looking at. And I think important that especially because you're looking at this early on because I think a lot of times businesses start off and they don't know their numbers for a long time. And I'm surprised sometimes they can last long enough to have the luxury of not looking at the numbers. But you seem to know your numbers from the very beginning. What are the numbers that people should be paying attention to, especially when you're just starting out? What are the key things to keep a laser focus on to make sure that you're not going to go bankrupt?</p> <p><strong>Mel: </strong>Yeah, I think it's really important to figure out how much it is actually costing you to make a product, and how much you are paying yourself. And having a sort of honest conversation with yourself of am I paying myself enough to not burn out?</p> <p><strong>Mel: </strong>We knew really early exactly how much it would cost to produce a swimsuit, exactly how much the packaging was. And I made a spreadsheet and broke it down into a per swimsuit price, partly for myself and partly so that I could talk to people about it. That $99 price point. Again, if anybody had any pushback, I could go through and explain exactly what is involved in deciding that price point. If we were a luxury, we could probably do a $300 swimsuit, but that's not what I want to do.</p> <p><strong>Mel: </strong>Anyway yeah, just paying attention to how much it's actually costing you to run your business. Hard materials and labor wise, and being honest with yourself about that is really important.</p> <p><strong>Felix: </strong>Are there surprises that you think maybe are not as seasoned at looking at the numbers might run into or might maybe gloss over when they are trying to calculate the cost? Surprises that are like, "Hey surprise you owe more money than you'd think," kind of surprises?</p> <p><strong>Mel: </strong>Well, hiring an accountant is more expensive than you think. That was a surprise. I think just my personality is also pretty optimistic. So I myself will gloss over how much things are really costing because I want them to be otherwise. So for me, I'm not intimidated by numbers. It's pretty simple math. Anyone can do it. If you can add and subtract and if you have a calculator, you shouldn't be intimidated by the numbers. And it's interesting because it's real numbers. This is your life, this is your business. So it's not scary hard math.</p> <p><strong>Mel: </strong>But also, I just had to remember to really take a hard look at what everything was costing. And not just being like, "I can use this roll of packing tape that was leftover from my day job." And it's like no, you need to go buy your own tape and factor it in. It's so silly. It was probably $6. But just little things like that really add up.</p> <p><strong>Felix: </strong>Right. You have to set up your almost financial models for scale where you can't just be like, "I can skimp here because I can find recycled this or recycled that." You actually have to think about if you're running this as a business that was maybe 10 times this size, are these numbers that you would actually care about. So I think that's an important point about how you have to take it seriously. Even if you're just starting out and you bring in nothing. You take it seriously from the start, I think you can make much wiser decisions.</p> <p><strong>Felix: </strong>So I want to talk about the other point which you brought up, which is about how you have to pay yourself enough to not burn out. I love the way you say it. I never heard anyone say before, but I think it's a reality, which is if you are just busting your butt for five years and not make any money at all, you're crazy or you're going to burn out somewhere before that.</p> <p><strong>Felix: </strong>So tell us about how you recognize. I think a lot of the other, I guess advice or storyline of a counter to, or narrative counter to what you're telling us here is that don't pay yourself anything. Pay yourself last and don't make any money from the business. But you're saying to keep this sustainable, to make sure you enjoy this, make sure that you actually are paying yourselves. Did you know that from the beginning or did you discover that along the way?</p> <p><strong>Mel: </strong>I think I knew that from the beginning. I've gotten burnt out at work before at other jobs. We all made bad decisions and burned ourselves. And I think at this point, I recognize that I love starting projects. That's so fun and so interesting, and it's challenging. But then I knew I was going to need something to keep me doing it. And part of that was just straight-up money. I'll buy myself a new pair of shoes and just be like, "You know what, you made money last year. You're in the black, you can buy yourself a freaking pair of shoes and that's okay." You know? And just little things like that where it feels like yes, I'm in this business to make awesome suits and I don't want to exploit people price-wise, but I don't want to exploit myself. So I have to recognize I'm going to need some little carrots along the way to keep myself doing this. And sometimes that's just going to be money.</p> <p><strong>Felix: </strong>Yeah. I think it's important to note that when you burn yourself out, you are doing a disservice to your customers because you're not going to produce a good product but maybe you'll go out of business and you no longer are serving anybody. So I think that's important that you do that.</p> <p><strong>Felix: </strong>So I'm not sure, did you have a methodical approach to arriving at his number? I think people are going to also take this advice and think, what's the bay bare minimum that I could pay myself? And then end up choosing something too small and then burning out because of that. So how do you make sure that you're happy with the number that you choose to pay yourself?</p> <p><strong>Mel: </strong>For me it was like I'm going to start with minimum wage, and just try to see if I can do that. With the idea of if for some reason something happened to me, and this business still needed to run and we had to hire someone. I don't know, I break my arm and I can't package swimsuits or something. Just a hypothetical what would I pay someone else to do this? And if I couldn't get minimum wage in there, then something needed to change our original price by, it was $95 a suit. I worked it out to ideally we'd be about 108 or 115. We're not, we're still at 99. And I am trying my damnedest to keep it under a hundred, but I think we're probably going to have to raise our prices at some point.</p> <p><strong>Felix: </strong>Just because of the cost that it requires for you to run the business?</p> <p><strong>Mel: </strong>Yeah. I barely paid myself minimum wage last year and I'm probably still lying to myself about that number, to be honest. Speaking of don't lie to yourself.</p> <p><strong>Felix: </strong>Yeah. Well, you at least know that you're lying to yourself. So you mentioned also to us that you realize that after the last couple of years, is that starting a business was more complicated and time-consuming than you had imagined. And then you compared to planning a wedding as well. So looking back on it, what were some things that you may be overlooked that surprised you? Because I think complications or things that take more time are usually surprised. Right? So what are some surprises along the way that made this a little more complicated, time-consuming than you had originally thought?</p> <p><strong>Mel: </strong>Yeah, I think customer service emails take a lot more time and energy than I originally thought. I hadn't had a whole lot of experience in retail, to be honest. I've always been on nonprofit, publishing tracks in my career. So that was a surprise. Just budgeting enough time for that. And then again speaking to my I love starting projects thing. We did the Kickstarter and then I was like, "Oh wait, I own a business. I have to keep going. I have to figure out how to design a website." And thank God for the templates on Shopify cause I am not a web designer. So shout out to those. It's been really nice to have a sort of plug and play option that I can just tinker with and do on my own without having to hire someone. Especially in that early part where we just had zero budget for anything.</p> <p><strong>Felix: </strong>Yeah. You said this a couple of times I want to touch on it, which is around the idea that you like starting projects. I think anyone out there that is an entrepreneur that is constantly thinking of ideas has the same issue where starting and then sustaining and then finishing a project are totally different skill sets that ideally one person has or ideally your team has, or you just suffer through it all. So when you are starting a project and you start reaching this point where it's like okay, well the honeymoon phase is starting to wane out. What do you look for? I guess you talk about money a little bit, but what else do you look for to keep, what kind of commitments do you made yourself or what do you do to make sure that you aren't just jumping from project to project?</p> <p><strong>Mel: </strong>Yeah. I think the project like this, it's turned out to be bigger and longer than I had initially thought, which is just blindness on my part. Of course, it was going to keep going. For me. hiring the PR firm and just having other folks be excited about it was so huge. And I look forward to the day that I can actually hire other people. That will probably require, that sounds like a lot of research and time. But it's just nice to have other people who are involved in a project and working on it. And I get energy from having coworkers, I guess is, I get energy from other people working on a project with me. So I knew I had to keep a day job and this couldn't be my full-time job until I can afford to have a team. And so until this company makes enough money to support a team, I just keep a day job, and that is my working with other people outlet. And then I can just hammer this out on my own, a couple of hours a day and that's fine. I don't think I could work by myself 40 to 60 hours a week without other people around who are also excited about it.</p> <p><strong>Felix: </strong>That's interesting. So let's say there's a scenario where you are making enough money where you could replace your day job with the income that you're paying yourself from the business. But you'd have to work on it yourself. You would rather hire people to take your place, and hire people to help continue building and maintain the business while you keep your day job?</p> <p><strong>Mel: </strong>Yeah. Hands down. That's why I hired PR.</p> <p><strong>Felix: </strong>Oh, that makes sense. I guess you've done that already. Okay, that makes sense. So when you are hiring help, I'm assuming you're hiring people to help you with things that you don't enjoy doing.</p> <p><strong>Mel: </strong>Yeah. Which is silly because probably the easiest hire to make would be someone to package and ship the swimsuits. But that is one of the most gratifying parts of this is putting a physical product in an envelope and sending it to someone. Because so much of my work is not tangible and never has been. So I love that part and I should probably just hire someone to do it, but it's so enjoyable for me.</p> <p><strong>Felix: </strong>I feel like it's fueling you. It's fueling you to give you the juice you need to continue running this thing. Even though again, conventional advice would run counter to that and say, "Just spend your time on 'more value-producing activities.'" If you are doing that and then you're burning yourself out, then the whole thing collapses anyway. So I think that's important to not give up the things that fulfill you, and fuel you, and keep you in the game. I think the reason why most people fail on this is because they give up too early, not because something catastrophic happened that's not recoverable from. You're usually giving up first, you know?</p> <p><strong>Felix: </strong>So I think it's important that you hold onto that. And I think that you recognize that and I think it's important advice that you're giving here, which is to hold onto the things that fulfill you and keep you in the game. So I think that you're totally doing the right thing for your situation.</p> <p><strong>Felix: </strong>So you also mentioned that certain skills like emotional intelligence and empathy are just as useful as knowing how to market and how to write good copy, how to organize inventory. So say more about this because this is something new that I haven't heard yet on this podcast, about intelligence and empathy. I feel like I'm a robot asking you, but what is to your emotional intelligence and empathy?</p> <p><strong>Mel: </strong>For me, it was what allowed me to answer customer service emails and do marketing in a way that I don't sound like a robot or I don't just sound like a copy of generic ad copy that's everywhere. So I think first startups where you're going to be doing a lot of stuff on your own in the beginning, you have to have a little heart and you have to be a little vulnerable.</p> <p><strong>Mel: </strong>I'm a huge fan of Brene Brown, the Daring Greatly book about vulnerability and shame. And so, especially being in a business like swimsuits where it is a vulnerable thing to be in a swimsuit. And there's a lot of body shame around it in the world. So I just knew from the get go I was going to have to be very comfortable with this touchy section of the market. And especially trying to be oriented towards an LGBTQ audience and a plus size audience. Again, talk about vulnerability and shame. And I've been in both of those audiences myself. I have to be comfortable talking to other people about these sometimes uncomfortable parts of ourselves and be able to do it authentically and recognize their humanity. Otherwise, what am I doing?</p> <p><strong>Felix: </strong>Yeah. Is it learnable? Vulnerability, emotional intelligence, empathy. Can you learn these skills?</p> <p><strong>Mel: </strong>I think so. Absolutely. I've also been in years of therapy, and I think that that helped me develop more emotional intelligence and develop more ability to be real and authentic with other people because I wasn't scared and hiding.</p> <p><strong>Mel: </strong>The hardest part about being an entrepreneur is just putting myself out there and not taking rejection personally because it's my job to keep an eye on the content, or the comments section. And to read all the customer service emails. And I couldn't be defensive, which is my absolutely natural go-to.</p> <p><strong>Felix: </strong>Most people.</p> <p><strong>Mel: </strong>Yeah, and I'm especially so. If I get embarrassed, I get angry. It's not a good look as my wife has helped me learn. So I knew that I needed to have those skills to run this particular business. There might be businesses that you can run where you don't have to have those things. But for me, they're absolutely necessary for the people I'm interacting with on a daily basis.</p> <p><strong>Felix: </strong>Yeah. I think authenticity and being able to be vulnerable is valuable in this day and age where it's so easy to be behind a mask. And I think it's so easy to slip back into your defenses and put on some mask that's not your true self. So when you are thinking about what you're doing when you're building your brand, when you're communicating with customers, are there certain things that you try to look for? I guess when you're looking at yourself, maybe introspectively to make sure that you are truly being yourself or truly being authentic and truly being vulnerable. And are there things that you look at like, "I'm proud of myself because I've done X, Y, Z today"?</p> <p><strong>Mel: </strong>Yeah. I think if I'm understanding it correctly, it's like how do I check myself to make sure that I'm not being-</p> <p><strong>Felix: </strong>Yeah, exactly.</p> <p><strong>Mel: </strong>Just time. Again, going slow. I'm giving myself room and space to figure it out. Customer service emails, I'm not real timely. I usually see them right when they come in, but I don't answer them right away. Good or bad because I know I need a day or two to digest. And just giving myself that space and time, not just frantically responding to everything in the minute. Our Facebook page will never have that badge of responds in 30 seconds. Because I need time. I'm a slow digester of emotions, both other people's in my owns and that's just who I am. Again, if you have time, go to years of therapy, that was really helpful.</p> <p><strong>Mel: </strong>But in the short term, for me when I write copy or I think about putting something out in the world. I think how would my best friend take this? How would my wife take this? How would someone I care about read this and take this? Because that's my audience is people I care about. So even if a customer, I've never met them before. If I'm thinking about my best friend or something when I'm writing copy or writing a social media post, I hope that it would mean something to them because I'm being my real 'self.'</p> <p><strong>Felix: </strong>Got it. That makes sense. So thank you so much for your time Mel. So Beefcake Swimwear, which is at beefcakeswimwear.com is the website. I'll leave you with this final question. What was the biggest lesson that you learned last year that you want to definitely make sure you apply in this year?</p> <p> </p> <p><strong>Mel: </strong>I'd say trust your gut. Whether it's how to answer someone in an email or what style of swimsuit I wanted to do next, or if I had a bad gut feeling about something that I didn't do. And thank God in hindsight. Just trust your gut and give yourself, again that time and space to listen to yourself. I just don't think that there's anything wrong with, in a world that is super frenetic and super anxious, and super fast, with carving out time to go slow and be thoughtful about things, and to listen to people, and to learn, and then trust your gut.</p> <p><strong>Felix: </strong>I love it. I think that's something that I've been learning too, which is that answers are not always available. The answers that you're asking, questions that you're asking yourself, you don't have the answers always available, right when you ask it, right? It takes time to almost like let it bubble up. It's kind of weird to say, but it's like sometimes we look at ourselves, we feel like we can ask ourselves any question. We know ourselves, why don't we know the answer right away? But I think it's important that like you say, you pause. And I think that's the biggest benefit that I'm hearing from your experience, which is that by taking the time to pause, by going in a slower pace, you let the answers come out. You maybe make less decisions, but they seem to be more decisions that are aligned with the lifestyle that you want to create. And I think that I appreciate you coming on and sharing that because I think it's a different path that is not typically talked about.</p> <p><strong>Felix: </strong>So again, really appreciate you coming on Mel. Good luck with everything. And again, beefcakeswimwear.com is the website. Thank you so much for your time.</p> <p><strong>Mel: </strong>Yeah. Thank you so much for having me. It's been a pleasure.</p><div id=":R0:" data-component-name="blog-read-more" class="marketing-block marketing-block--light marketing-block--padded text-body-sm text-left my-8 tablet:my-16 p-8 bg-marketingBg border-t-2 [&_h2]:text-t5 border-blog-highlight"><h2 class="!mt-0 mb-6 font-aktivgroteskextended">Read more</h2><ul class="!mt-0 !mb-0"><li class="mt-2"><a href="/ca/blog/206934729-how-to-start-a-clothing-line">How to Start a Clothing Line in 12 Steps (2024)</a></li><li class="mt-2"><a href="/ca/blog/niche-markets">Start Selling in a Niche Market Today: 9 Examples</a></li><li class="mt-2"><a href="/ca/blog/back-to-school">4 Merchants Share Their Back to School Strategies</a></li><li class="mt-2"><a href="/ca/blog/overdraft-kaikini-financial-struggle">Overdraft- What Happened When KaiKini’s Debt Quadrupled</a></li><li class="mt-2"><a href="/ca/blog/dah-makan-vc-and-angel-funding">Courting VC and Angel Funding to Scale a Food Startup to 40 Employees</a></li><li class="mt-2"><a 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style=\"text-align: left;\"\u003eMel Wells was inspired by her roommate's desire for a 1920s styled swimsuit to start \u003ca href=\"https://www.beefcakeswimwear.com/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\"\u003eBeefcake Swimwear\u003c/a\u003e. Initially sewing pieces herself, Mel then took the time to research and find sustainable fabrics and an ethical American manufacturer. \u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eTaking two years before launching, Beefcake Swimwear is a true reflection of Mel's dedication to thoughtfully produce androgynous vintage-inspired swimwear. \u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eIn this episode of Shopify Masters, you'll hear from Mel Wells of Beefcake Swimwear on why it's important to grow at your own pace and how to create a brand that authentically reflects who you are. \u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cmeta charset=\"utf-8\"\u003e\u003cmeta charset=\"utf-8\"\u003e\u003cmeta charset=\"utf-8\"\u003e\n\u003cblockquote\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cspan\u003eI think there's this false narrative of you have to grow, you have to grow fast, you have to grow big.\u003c/span\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003c/blockquote\u003e\n\u003ch3\u003eTune in to learn\u003c/h3\u003e\n\u003cmeta charset=\"utf-8\"\u003e\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003eHow you can still succeed in business when you’re not a risk-taker\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003eWhat to do if you’re an entrepreneur that likes starting businesses but tend to jump around\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003eWhy hiring a PR agency is a worthwhile investment \u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\u003ciframe height=\"200px\" width=\"100%\" frameborder=\"no\" scrolling=\"no\" seamless=\"\" src=\"https://player.simplecast.com/e074aeee-0d61-4c2f-b9f3-ee64f39208ad?dark=true\"\u003e\u003c/iframe\u003e\n\u003cdiv style=\"text-align: center;\"\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eDon't miss an episode! Subscribe to Shopify Masters.\u003c/strong\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\n\u003ccenter\u003e\n \n\u003c/center\u003e\n\u003ch3\u003eShow Notes\u003c/h3\u003e\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\n\u003cstrong\u003eStore:\u003c/strong\u003e \u003ca href=\"https://www.beefcakeswimwear.com/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow noopener noreferrer\"\u003eBeefcake Swimwear\u003c/a\u003e\n\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\n\u003cstrong\u003eSocial Profiles:\u003c/strong\u003e \u003ca href=\"https://www.facebook.com/beefcakeswimwear\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow noopener noreferrer\"\u003eFacebook\u003c/a\u003e, \u003ca href=\"https://twitter.com/beefcake_swim\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow noopener noreferrer\"\u003eTwitter\u003c/a\u003e, \u003ca href=\"http://instagram.com/beefcakeswimwear\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow noopener noreferrer\"\u003eInstagram\u003c/a\u003e\n\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\n\u003cstrong\u003eRecommendations:\u003c/strong\u003e \u003ca href=\"https://www.jld-studios.com/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow noopener noreferrer\"\u003eJLD Studios\u003c/a\u003e, \u003ca href=\"https://www.rebelliouspr.com/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow noopener noreferrer\"\u003eRebellious PR\u003c/a\u003e\n\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\u003cul\u003e\u003c/ul\u003e\n\u003cp style=\"text-align: center;\"\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eTranscript \u003c/strong\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eFelix: \u003c/strong\u003eToday I'm joined by Mel Wells from Beefcake Swimwear. Beefcake Swimwear makes androgynous one-piece 1920s swimsuits in the USA with sustainable manufacturing and inclusive sizing. Was started 2017 and is based out of Missoula, Montana. Welcome, Mel.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eMel: \u003c/strong\u003eThank you. I'm happy to be here.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eFelix: \u003c/strong\u003eAwesome. So all of this started with you on a vintage sewing machine in your basement. And it says here that you attempted to replicate a 1920 swimsuit for your roommate. So what were you doing making 1920s swimsuits?\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eMel: \u003c/strong\u003eWell, she really wanted one, but of course they're all vintage and they're all made of wool, which is not great for swimming in. And I grew up like a nerd sewing my own clothes because I was so tall. So I was like, \"I know how to do this. I know how to sew clothes. I'll try making one for you.\" Turns out sewing stretchy fabric is terrible. But along the way, a bunch of other folks said that they were also interested in 1920s swimsuits. And so I started to think it might be a viable business idea. I just knew that I didn't want to do the sewing.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eFelix: \u003c/strong\u003eRight. So first of all, I didn't know that back then it was made out of wool. I see all those photos, but I have no idea that they must've felt so uncomfortable, but I guess they didn't know any better back then. So that's interesting. So when you first made this, I guess very, very first edition, this very first prototype. Were you looking to seek feedback to see if there was a viable business out of it or how did people start noticing your creation?\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eMel: \u003c/strong\u003eIt was mostly because I was complaining about it. I lived in a house with a bunch of roommates and was just sewing it in the living room. And so folks would come by and see what I was doing. Or I was talking to my friends that I was making one for, and she was talking to other people. So this weird word of mouth started up where it seemed to be that everybody was really interested in a swimsuit that was masculine, that didn't have a skirt on it but still had some coverage.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eFelix: \u003c/strong\u003eGot it. So you recognize that there might be a viable business model out of it because people were expressing interest in it. And you'd launched us on Kickstarter, which we'll get to in a bit. Did you ever do any validation before that? Did you try selling in any other ways before you took that leap towards investing your time and resource into a Kickstarter campaign?\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eMel: \u003c/strong\u003eI really didn't. I figured a Kickstarter was a low-risk way to see if it would actually work. I did spend about two years and about, I'd say about $5,000 of my own money just researching and prototyping. So I lucked out.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eMel: \u003c/strong\u003eI found this place in Portland, Oregon that was a manufacturer of activewear that had zero minimums, which in retail is like insane. So I contacted them and asked them about prototyping just to see, cause I knew that this was a good idea. I just didn't know how to do it. And so they were super helpful. It's JLD-Studios in Portland, Oregon and they only do leggings now, but I snuck in and got them to do my swimsuits.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eMel: \u003c/strong\u003eAnd we tested on, I think I mailed suits and had probably about 10 or 12 people across the country. Just friends and friends of friends. Try them on, give me feedback on how they fit. Just so I could get as close to, well not perfect, but as close to what I wanted as possible when we did finally launched the Kickstarter.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eFelix: \u003c/strong\u003eOkay. So two years, $5,000 of your own money. This is a pretty big investment for time and money wise for someone that's just ... first of all, was this your first attempt at starting a business?\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eMel: \u003c/strong\u003eI've always been entrepreneurial. In fifth grade, the first time I got called to the principal's office was for selling candy on the playground.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eFelix: \u003c/strong\u003eRite of passage for an entrepreneur.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eMel: \u003c/strong\u003eI have a long history.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eFelix: \u003c/strong\u003eYeah. But even then, two years and 5,000. I mean, I think the two years part is even more of an investment where I would see a lot of, I think that's an accomplishment because I think a lot of people will spend two years or would try to spend two years or something and give up along the way. So you had a plan, obviously, you had this vision in mind for what you wanted, at least perfect to your vision. What were you looking for? What was it that you wanted to see before you felt comfortable moving forward and eventually go on Kickstarter?\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eMel: \u003c/strong\u003eFor me, it was so slow because I'm really into research and I'm very much, I like to know what I'm jumping into before I actually take a leap. So part of that was just personal style. I wasn't like struggling for two years. It was researching and doing all this in my spare time. I worked at a nonprofit where my day job was more than full time. And I'm also a little bit of a writer so I had other hobbies going on. So it was just was where I could put time into on the side was part of the reason it took so long.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eMel: \u003c/strong\u003eFor me, I just wanted to make sure that I did it right. I really cared about the people that I would be making these swimsuits for, and I wanted to do it sustainably. And to just kind of grow slow. It really wasn't about making money, it was about doing this thing and doing it right.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eFelix: \u003c/strong\u003eRight. Yeah. I think this is concept what you talk about in the pre-interview, which I definitely want to touch on about going slow, going at a pace that makes sense for you is an important one because a lot of people get burnt out if they think that there's this timeline. They're watching the clock and trying to get somewhere sooner than what's maybe comfortable for them. So how do you keep the momentum going though? Because I think there's this also other side which is where you go enough, you start feeling the friction, you start feeling the drag more of this thing slowing down. [inaudible] basically burning out. Right. And then in any other way. So how did you keep the momentum going to make sure that you were at least stay on track even though you were going at a slower pace?\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eMel: \u003c/strong\u003eI think it was just the excitement whenever I talk to other people about this project. Everyone that I talked to from the initial fitters, the fit testers were just so excited about the swimsuit. It helped me be really excited. And then once we launched the Kickstarter, that blew up and the feedback was incredible, and we had an original goal of raising $10,000. I knew that was my minimum viable make this thing work and not lose my shirt amount. And we raised 35,000. And so that was thrilling.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eMel: \u003c/strong\u003eAnd then along the way, we've had people email us saying, \"This is the first time I've been in a swimsuit in 10 years,\" or, \"I cried when I put this on because it felt so good.\" The feedback that we get from folks wearing the swimsuits is what really keeps me excited and motivated even when this is still a part-time job for me. It's still in addition to my day job evenings and weekends, just whenever I can sneak it in.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eFelix: \u003c/strong\u003eRight. I think that's an important thing to look for. Where the journey can be very lonely, especially if you're doing this by yourself, which you are in your case where you're the sole employee, solo founder of this thing. So what you look for is that you look towards the community, right? You look towards the people's lives that you're improving and then using that as fuel. You're saying, sometimes you just need one person, that you're improving their life. It makes it worthwhile for you to spend the time on this. So two years again that you spent on this, how many iterations did it take before you got to that point where you felt comfortable moving forward from this \u003ca href=\"/blog/what-is-research-and-development\" target=\"_blank\"\u003eresearch and development\u003c/a\u003e phase?\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eMel: \u003c/strong\u003eWell there was my initial terrible one and then there was the, I think we had two or three that JLD made first that I tried on. I had my friend try on, I had my girlfriend at the time try on. And then we had some feedback and we did one more iteration, and sent those all over the country and had those folks try them on. And then we went for it.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eMel: \u003c/strong\u003eSo we did all the seats with the Kickstarter. We did about, I think it was 350 suits. And then we started selling online. But then I started getting feedback from folks who had supported the Kickstarter that they wanted improvements. And I always viewed the Kickstarter as help us start this thing, give us feedback, help us make it the best product possible.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eMel: \u003c/strong\u003eSo I did a survey of all our Kickstarter backers and tried to really listen to them and see what was working for folks and what wasn't. And one big thing that we did that we stopped doing was a shelf bra. It just didn't work well enough for enough people. So we stopped doing that and we started lining the entire front of the suit. It added probably a couple of dollars worth of material and labor to each suit, but to me, it was worth it.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eMel: \u003c/strong\u003eWe also switched fabrics to something more sustainable. The fabric we use now is imported from Italy. It's some of the most sustainable polyester fabric that you can find. It's 100% recycled polyester. And then the Lycra spandex content is chlorine resistant. So it's some of the best fabric you can find in the world. And so we started making our suits with that fabric, lining the front. Then I felt like okay, now we've really got it right and I feel confident about it.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eFelix: \u003c/strong\u003eYeah. And so even to this day, are you still getting feedback on ways to improve the product and are planning on implementing those today?\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eMel: \u003c/strong\u003eThe bust support is one thing that we have not figured out that a lot of people ask for. It's kind of an engineering problem where you have to find something that will bind up top but will also fit over a person's hips. And we have not figured that out yet in this specific type of swimsuits. So that's something that is always on my mind. But that's probably a few years down the road, to be honest. It's a lot of money to prototype, and right now we're pouring all of our money into just keeping our inventory in stock.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eFelix: \u003c/strong\u003eGot it. Yeah. I think that the important point where there is no, this finalized stage of your product or finalized stage of your business. You're always constantly trying to make improvements or take feedback and implement it, or spending time trying to solve things. I think it's an important point where a lot of times people, \"I'm going to launch on Kickstarter, I get the money and I sell the products and that's it.\" It's usually not the case, right? If you don't like solving problems, you're in the wrong field. This a constant game. I'm sure we'll get into that in a little bit.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eFelix: \u003c/strong\u003eBut yeah. Let's talk about Kickstarter. So you mentioned earlier $10,000 was the goal and you ended up raising over 35,000 from 422 backers. So how did it happen? What were you doing pre-Kickstarter now you look back on it, that helped you get this campaign successfully funded?\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eMel: \u003c/strong\u003eI think a lot of my research probably helps. Part of that two years before launching was looking at other Kickstarters, seeing what was successful, seeing who failed, backing some, seeing what rewards I have got, how soon they set their awards. And just making sure that I knew what a really good campaign entailed. Because it seems, I think at the surface level it can seem really easy. But a Kickstarter campaign is a difficult thing to execute and execute well. I get people asking me all the time, \"How did you do it?\" And I'm like, \"Two years of work.\" And then they don't email me back.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eFelix: \u003c/strong\u003eNo. They want to know how you did it overnight is the idea that they want to find out from you. So what were some of the things that you found in about what made a campaign successful? If you were to launch another campaign, what are some things that you'd want to definitely include to at least I guess, shift the odds into your favor?\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eMel: \u003c/strong\u003eYeah, I think for me having a prototype that was done and like in the video so you could see it in action is really important. I saw a lot of folks who just didn't have anything as a consumer. Reading these Kickstarters campaigns, it didn't seem viable to me or it just didn't seem quite real. So any question whether or not you can pull this off. You have to be able to say, \"Yes, we've done it. Here it is.\"\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eMel: \u003c/strong\u003eThe other one was the human connection. For me, my video was not slick. I did it in my office, in my apartment. But it was for me it was very authentic and from my heart. \"This is why I'm doing this. This is the person you are giving the money to.\" And I try really hard to continue that very personal human connection where it's not like I'm the boss and you are my consumers. It's like I'm a person doing this thing that I hope you will like. I'm looking for fans more than customers.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eFelix: \u003c/strong\u003eThat's a good perspective. So are there things in your research that you definitely want to avoid including or during your campaign that is likely to cause failure?\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eMel: \u003c/strong\u003eI'd say communicate as often as you possibly can. It's a lot of work, but just a little note to people so they're not hanging really helps. And then sometimes I'd answer something and then we'd see a bump in backers. So I think that people really look to what you're saying even during the campaign to see whether or not they want to support you.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eFelix: \u003c/strong\u003eGot it. And you mentioned that one of the factors that you looked at was the time I guess, the timeline between backing it and getting the, I guess the end of the campaign and getting the reward. Was there an optimal timeline that you saw?\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eMel: \u003c/strong\u003eIt was within six months, I'd say. You got to turn things around pretty quickly. And I understand some folks would sell crazy amounts, and I didn't want ... confession, I didn't want to succeed too much because I didn't want to outstrip my ability to deliver. And so I did a shorter campaign. My motto is always under-promise and then over-deliver. So I knew how many suits my manufacturer could make per month and I tried to time the delivery of those rewards accordingly so that everybody wasn't backing and thinking they were all going to get their rewards in the first three months if that makes sense.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eFelix: \u003c/strong\u003eThat does. Got it. So once the campaign ended, you successfully broke through, tripled your goal and raised $35,000. What was next? What happened after the campaign ended?\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eMel: \u003c/strong\u003eWe started making suits.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eFelix: \u003c/strong\u003eYou mentioned that you already had a manufactured lined up at a time, right?\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eMel: \u003c/strong\u003eYeah, yeah, yeah. And I had their timeline lined up. And I knew that the very end of the campaign, some folks' suits, it was going to be pushing up into October, which is kind of a crappy time to be getting a swimsuit in the United States. But again, I just tried to be as super communicative with folks and let them know, \"Hey, I have this manufacturer. They're small, they're woman-owned, they're in the United States. I really believe them and trust them, and enjoy partnering with them. So that's who I'm using. I'm not going to outsource this. You're just going to have to be patient.\"\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eFelix: \u003c/strong\u003eRight. Makes sense. Okay, so you went and manufactured that. Your timeline was also, I guess on the reward that had the longest time. And that was six months?\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eMel: \u003c/strong\u003eYeah, I think our campaign ended, I think it was April 5th, and I think our final suits shipped a week before thanksgiving, something like that. And then we launched our online store in November. Which is again, such a weird time to launch a swimsuit company online. But it was nice because we didn't have much inventory. We started with about 100 suits because we had spent so much time making all the Kickstarter rewards that it was actually good because then we didn't sell out immediately.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eFelix: \u003c/strong\u003eOkay. Got it. So you basically went almost dark for a bit and just focused on manufacturing these suits to fulfill the orders from the Kickstarter. And then once you got to that phase, you then launched your website with some inventory about 100 suits, and you went live then. What informed your decision on what kind of inventory to stock?\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eMel: \u003c/strong\u003eWell, I'm a spreadsheet nerd. So I made a spreadsheet of which sizes and styles sold on the Kickstarter and then just used that as my guide when I was ordering more suits to keep in stock.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eFelix: \u003c/strong\u003eYou basically extrapolated the percent, the breakdown of percentages of people of different sizes over 100 pieces. Okay, got it. Did that match up? The reality between what you sold on Kickstarter matched up with the reality of what you sold on your website?\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eMel: \u003c/strong\u003eOh yeah. Yeah, yeah. That was a really good indicator of what was going to sell. And even now as I launch new suits, I can align the sizes that I think will sell with what sold previously. Sometimes we get that wrong. Often, we've been marketing more towards plus-sized consumers. So I've been sold out of the larger sizes a lot this summer, unfortunately. But it's been pretty predictive.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eFelix: \u003c/strong\u003eGot it. So when you are selling on your own site, I guess that very first month or so that you were launching your own site, were you doing anything at that time to promote it? How are people finding out about it now that the buzz from Kickstarter might've started to fizzle out?\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eMel: \u003c/strong\u003eIt was still just word of mouth. We have an Instagram that has been pretty successful I think. And it was cute because we started getting photos from folks wearing their swimsuits, which was awesome and so fun to see. So I just started re-posting those.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eMel: \u003c/strong\u003eI think I maybe spent $500 the first year on advertising because we had no budget. Every penny we made went right back into making more inventory.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eFelix: \u003c/strong\u003eGot it. Makes Sense. So you mentioned that your process for launching new suits, I want to learn more about this. How do you decide what to design? How do you know what you should be focused on producing next?\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eMel: \u003c/strong\u003eI try to listen to folks. In one of those Kickstarter surveys, I asked everybody what colors they would most like to see. And those were green and purple. So the next suits that we launched were a green one and a purple one. And honestly, the green one I launched because it was the suit that I wanted. The stone fox, it's very seventies. I was a little worried. I was curious to see how it would go. And that's become our second bestseller after the original in black. So that was pretty exciting to see.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eFelix: \u003c/strong\u003eMakes sense. So you mentioned that you do something interesting, which is that whenever you do sell a product and you ship it out, you insert a card with every purchase asking folks to tag you on social. How has this worked out so far?\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eMel: \u003c/strong\u003eIt's been awesome. We do have folks who are really enthusiastic about our suits. It's so funny, we just did a photoshoot the other day and we had a very diverse lineup of people, very different body types and styles, and genders. And they all put on their swimsuits, and people literally walk out of the dressing room dancing. And it's like when was the last time you put on a swimsuit and were excited about it? Swimsuit shopping is horrible. I was worried. I was like maybe you folks won't want to tag us cause posting a picture of yourself in a swimsuit feels kind of vulnerable. But so far people love them and feel comfortable, and strong, and confident in them. And that has been fantastic to see.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eFelix: \u003c/strong\u003eThat's amazing. Yeah. The photos on your site are awesome, the product photos and the lifestyle shots are awesome. How was that done? Was that done all in-house? You hire help with creating a photoshoot like this?\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eMel: \u003c/strong\u003eWell with our shoestring budget, our first photoshoot was all friends. Actually, our last one was pretty much all friends too. And then we hire a local photographer and we try to be really cognizant of having a very diverse lineup. And that's really representative of a wide spectrum of folks. And that's all, just we hire a photographer. My wife actually pretty much handles the photoshoots. She herds the cats, and then we just go have a fun party on the beach and take photos.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eFelix: \u003c/strong\u003eThat's amazing. So I want to get back to this idea of how you are going at your own pace. And you mentioned that you guys have grown thoughtfully and sustainably, and you're more interested in disrupting the exploitative, harmful business of fast fashion and creating a quality product than you are in terms of making loads of quick cash or being on Shark Tank or trying to get all this buzz on TV. And that's the approach that you want to take. And I think there's again an important counterpoint to the more often seen and heard advice of entrepreneurship, which is to just live on ramen and just spent all your money and stress out every night about your business. Otherwise, you're not an entrepreneur. You're talking about taking a much more mindful and I think saying an approach to running a business. Tell us about, was that difficult for you when you're hearing so much, I guess advise counter to that?\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eMel: \u003c/strong\u003eYeah. It's been an interesting journey because imposter syndrome is real. I just want to put that out there. And I am cautious because I didn't want to put all my eggs in this basket. I've always known with swimsuits H\u0026amp;M could do a suit like this tomorrow and charge so much less and just kill us. I mean, that would be it. Except for I hope folks would understand the way that we make things and the quality of our product. But let's be honest, retail is cutthroat and it's to me, not somewhere I wanted to invest my whole life. And so it's always kind of been like let's do this thing. Let's do it extremely well, and let's see where it goes.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eMel: \u003c/strong\u003eAnd I also, I think there's this false narrative of you have to grow, you have to grow fast, you have to grow big. And I watch companies grow and then die, and then grow and then die because they have so much debt that just one thing makes them really unstable. So for me, it's always been about being really sustainable, not just in an environmentally friendly way, but in an energy way. In a money way for me.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eMel: \u003c/strong\u003eWe've never been in debt. We took out a very, very tiny loan our first year for a little cash flow so we could get some inventory. But other than that, we've been in the black since we started, and that is extremely important to me. I'm not really a risk-taker when it comes to businesses and I think that you're right, there's this narrative of you have to otherwise it's not real. But this is real, and it feels good.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eFelix: \u003c/strong\u003eYeah. I think I really want to hear more of your story about this, not a risk-taker because again, this is very counter to mainstream entrepreneurship storylines where you have to take a lot of risks. So you're not a risk-taker. Tell us more about your experience because of your comment with that personality, right, where you are risk-averse. Because I think a lot of people hesitate to go into entrepreneurship or start their own business because they think they don't have the guts to take big risks. But you are demonstrating that you can start a business, go at your own pace, and not take crazy risks. Just tell us about maybe the pros and cons of that. What have you been able to do that you think that you would not be able to do? If you weren't so I guess careful with your approach to starting a business.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eMel: \u003c/strong\u003eYeah, I think my work-life balance has been a lot better. I'm not eating ramen and living with 14 roommates. I was in my thirties when I started this. I was done with that lifestyle. And I'd been able to have a social life. I would not recommend doing a Kickstarter while you're also planning a wedding, but I did that.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eFelix: \u003c/strong\u003eWhich one was harder?\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eMel: \u003c/strong\u003eOh my God. Probably the wedding, honestly. But I don't know. For me, it's just been a matter of that's my life. I like having a lot of different projects happening. I think I would get bored and burnt out if this was my whole life. And again, I feel like an imposter because I'm not constantly on Instagram talking about entrepreneur life and talking up my business. Because it's not the whole thing about who I am. I'm not saving the world. I know that. I'm just making swimsuits that hopefully make a good, positive difference in people's lives.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eMel: \u003c/strong\u003eWould it be cool to make $1 million? Yeah. I don't hate money. But I also just don't want to ... I think it's because I got married honestly and I wanted to be a responsible partner. I didn't want to risk all of my money because it would affect my partner doing this thing. So I think she probably helped me be a little more reasonable about what I could and couldn't take on. And that has been really nice. I think I would probably hate this business if it was taking over my life and causing me to lose sleep, and stressing me out all the time. I love that it's really enjoyable, and I think the pace is part of the reason I enjoy it.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eFelix: \u003c/strong\u003eRight. I think it's kind of a balancing act, right? It's not just that you can just start working for a month because you feel like taking a break. There's still a balance of at least maintaining it. Right? There's at least maintenance mode. So what are some things I maybe you said no to? I guess this is more in the concept. What are some opportunities that maybe you said no to or some opportunities that you saw that you decided not to pursue because you wanted to make sure that you wouldn't hate your business at the end of the day?\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eMel: \u003c/strong\u003eI mean, marketing. I just haven't done that much. We finally hired a PR firm this summer and that's been phenomenal because it's something I don't enjoy, but it's something I didn't have money for until this year. And they are really helping us grow, and it's so fun to have people to talk to besides my wife, who are excited about the business, and understand what we're doing, and are trying to help us grow. I wish I could have afforded that the first year because it's been a game-changer for my energy levels and my enjoyment of what I'm doing. So yeah, I said no to that the first year because we just couldn't afford it. And that has made a huge positive difference in what we're doing.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eFelix: \u003c/strong\u003eRight. I'm sure it varies from industry to industry, maybe from city to city, but what are some budgets that you'd need to at least have before you can even think about hiring a PR firm or PR agency?\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eMel: \u003c/strong\u003eWell budgeting wise, I just wanted to do my taxes the first year and see what we even had leftover. Our suits are $42 to make, and that's just fabric and labor. And so a $99 price point is kind of insane in the retail world. And I try to be really transparent about that so that whenever someone objects to our price point because I understand it's way more expensive than Target or Walmart or something. I try to explain no, this is what manufacturing that isn't exploiting people looks like. This is how everything should be priced so that the folks who are making it are receiving fair wages. We're not exploiting the earth, we're not exploiting resources. We're doing this.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eMel: \u003c/strong\u003eSo that first year, we barely were a six-figure company, which all my family was like, \"Oh my gosh, you're going to quit your job.\" And I was like no because our costs are so high, the actual take-home was much lower. And I wasn't sure how taxes were going to work out that first year. So I just kind of didn't know what we even had to work out or to work with. So after we got our tax returns back this year and I was like, \"Oh cool, we made a profit last year. I can hire advertising this year.\"\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eFelix: \u003c/strong\u003eThat's cool. So basically you definitely need to have, you can't really invest in this rough to bat in the PR agency. It makes sense for you to look at this as a way to celebrate your growth once you have some kind of sustainable business at first. So tell us about what it's like to work with someone that works, I guess with a PR agency. What's their job? What do they do for you?\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eMel: \u003c/strong\u003eYeah. So we work with a company called Rebellious PR and they are in Portland, Oregon. And they are super queer-friendly, woman-owned, amazing company. And I was also really, really picky about who I wanted to work with, and these guys were my dream team because I feel like they understand what we're doing.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eMel: \u003c/strong\u003eAnd they have been accessing reporters that I don't have time or interest in trying to send out a million press releases to everybody. But they have those contacts, they know their writing styles. They can spend time doing that. So that was my number one awesome please do this for me request.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eMel: \u003c/strong\u003eA fun thing they have been doing is finding some influencers to wear swimsuits. So, Jess who was on Queer Eye, she wore our new suit, the charmer, the rainbow pride suit. And that was the first post anywhere, it was on Instagram. That's how we launched our suit. And that was so fun because I love Jess and the response was so positive. And that would have never happened without these guys.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eFelix: \u003c/strong\u003eThat's awesome. Okay. So they found these influencers for you? They found people that work with publications that might want to write about you. What's your involvement? When you hire a PR agency, I'm sure it's not just the wipe your hands clean and they do all your marketing for you. What do you have to do to contribute to the success?\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eMel: \u003c/strong\u003eWe have a weekly phone call where we chat about things. We email a couple of times a week. I enjoy writing. I consider myself a writer, so I've been putting together some pitches or just some ideas for pitches for them to send out. And mostly, I'd say just talking through how we want to brand things. And they have little homework assignments for me sometimes. They were actually the ones who connected me with this podcast. So they've been helping me figure out how to position the brand and talk about it and get it out in the world.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eFelix: \u003c/strong\u003eGot it. So I want to talk about the spreadsheets that you seem to love looking at. And I think important that especially because you're looking at this early on because I think a lot of times businesses start off and they don't know their numbers for a long time. And I'm surprised sometimes they can last long enough to have the luxury of not looking at the numbers. But you seem to know your numbers from the very beginning. What are the numbers that people should be paying attention to, especially when you're just starting out? What are the key things to keep a laser focus on to make sure that you're not going to go bankrupt?\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eMel: \u003c/strong\u003eYeah, I think it's really important to figure out how much it is actually costing you to make a product, and how much you are paying yourself. And having a sort of honest conversation with yourself of am I paying myself enough to not burn out?\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eMel: \u003c/strong\u003eWe knew really early exactly how much it would cost to produce a swimsuit, exactly how much the packaging was. And I made a spreadsheet and broke it down into a per swimsuit price, partly for myself and partly so that I could talk to people about it. That $99 price point. Again, if anybody had any pushback, I could go through and explain exactly what is involved in deciding that price point. If we were a luxury, we could probably do a $300 swimsuit, but that's not what I want to do.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eMel: \u003c/strong\u003eAnyway yeah, just paying attention to how much it's actually costing you to run your business. Hard materials and labor wise, and being honest with yourself about that is really important.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eFelix: \u003c/strong\u003eAre there surprises that you think maybe are not as seasoned at looking at the numbers might run into or might maybe gloss over when they are trying to calculate the cost? Surprises that are like, \"Hey surprise you owe more money than you'd think,\" kind of surprises?\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eMel: \u003c/strong\u003eWell, hiring an accountant is more expensive than you think. That was a surprise. I think just my personality is also pretty optimistic. So I myself will gloss over how much things are really costing because I want them to be otherwise. So for me, I'm not intimidated by numbers. It's pretty simple math. Anyone can do it. If you can add and subtract and if you have a calculator, you shouldn't be intimidated by the numbers. And it's interesting because it's real numbers. This is your life, this is your business. So it's not scary hard math.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eMel: \u003c/strong\u003eBut also, I just had to remember to really take a hard look at what everything was costing. And not just being like, \"I can use this roll of packing tape that was leftover from my day job.\" And it's like no, you need to go buy your own tape and factor it in. It's so silly. It was probably $6. But just little things like that really add up.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eFelix: \u003c/strong\u003eRight. You have to set up your almost financial models for scale where you can't just be like, \"I can skimp here because I can find recycled this or recycled that.\" You actually have to think about if you're running this as a business that was maybe 10 times this size, are these numbers that you would actually care about. So I think that's an important point about how you have to take it seriously. Even if you're just starting out and you bring in nothing. You take it seriously from the start, I think you can make much wiser decisions.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eFelix: \u003c/strong\u003eSo I want to talk about the other point which you brought up, which is about how you have to pay yourself enough to not burn out. I love the way you say it. I never heard anyone say before, but I think it's a reality, which is if you are just busting your butt for five years and not make any money at all, you're crazy or you're going to burn out somewhere before that.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eFelix: \u003c/strong\u003eSo tell us about how you recognize. I think a lot of the other, I guess advice or storyline of a counter to, or narrative counter to what you're telling us here is that don't pay yourself anything. Pay yourself last and don't make any money from the business. But you're saying to keep this sustainable, to make sure you enjoy this, make sure that you actually are paying yourselves. Did you know that from the beginning or did you discover that along the way?\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eMel: \u003c/strong\u003eI think I knew that from the beginning. I've gotten burnt out at work before at other jobs. We all made bad decisions and burned ourselves. And I think at this point, I recognize that I love starting projects. That's so fun and so interesting, and it's challenging. But then I knew I was going to need something to keep me doing it. And part of that was just straight-up money. I'll buy myself a new pair of shoes and just be like, \"You know what, you made money last year. You're in the black, you can buy yourself a freaking pair of shoes and that's okay.\" You know? And just little things like that where it feels like yes, I'm in this business to make awesome suits and I don't want to exploit people price-wise, but I don't want to exploit myself. So I have to recognize I'm going to need some little carrots along the way to keep myself doing this. And sometimes that's just going to be money.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eFelix: \u003c/strong\u003eYeah. I think it's important to note that when you burn yourself out, you are doing a disservice to your customers because you're not going to produce a good product but maybe you'll go out of business and you no longer are serving anybody. So I think that's important that you do that.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eFelix: \u003c/strong\u003eSo I'm not sure, did you have a methodical approach to arriving at his number? I think people are going to also take this advice and think, what's the bay bare minimum that I could pay myself? And then end up choosing something too small and then burning out because of that. So how do you make sure that you're happy with the number that you choose to pay yourself?\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eMel: \u003c/strong\u003eFor me it was like I'm going to start with minimum wage, and just try to see if I can do that. With the idea of if for some reason something happened to me, and this business still needed to run and we had to hire someone. I don't know, I break my arm and I can't package swimsuits or something. Just a hypothetical what would I pay someone else to do this? And if I couldn't get minimum wage in there, then something needed to change our original price by, it was $95 a suit. I worked it out to ideally we'd be about 108 or 115. We're not, we're still at 99. And I am trying my damnedest to keep it under a hundred, but I think we're probably going to have to raise our prices at some point.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eFelix: \u003c/strong\u003eJust because of the cost that it requires for you to run the business?\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eMel: \u003c/strong\u003eYeah. I barely paid myself minimum wage last year and I'm probably still lying to myself about that number, to be honest. Speaking of don't lie to yourself.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eFelix: \u003c/strong\u003eYeah. Well, you at least know that you're lying to yourself. So you mentioned also to us that you realize that after the last couple of years, is that starting a business was more complicated and time-consuming than you had imagined. And then you compared to planning a wedding as well. So looking back on it, what were some things that you may be overlooked that surprised you? Because I think complications or things that take more time are usually surprised. Right? So what are some surprises along the way that made this a little more complicated, time-consuming than you had originally thought?\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eMel: \u003c/strong\u003eYeah, I think customer service emails take a lot more time and energy than I originally thought. I hadn't had a whole lot of experience in retail, to be honest. I've always been on nonprofit, publishing tracks in my career. So that was a surprise. Just budgeting enough time for that. And then again speaking to my I love starting projects thing. We did the Kickstarter and then I was like, \"Oh wait, I own a business. I have to keep going. I have to figure out how to design a website.\" And thank God for the templates on Shopify cause I am not a web designer. So shout out to those. It's been really nice to have a sort of plug and play option that I can just tinker with and do on my own without having to hire someone. Especially in that early part where we just had zero budget for anything.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eFelix: \u003c/strong\u003eYeah. You said this a couple of times I want to touch on it, which is around the idea that you like starting projects. I think anyone out there that is an entrepreneur that is constantly thinking of ideas has the same issue where starting and then sustaining and then finishing a project are totally different skill sets that ideally one person has or ideally your team has, or you just suffer through it all. So when you are starting a project and you start reaching this point where it's like okay, well the honeymoon phase is starting to wane out. What do you look for? I guess you talk about money a little bit, but what else do you look for to keep, what kind of commitments do you made yourself or what do you do to make sure that you aren't just jumping from project to project?\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eMel: \u003c/strong\u003eYeah. I think the project like this, it's turned out to be bigger and longer than I had initially thought, which is just blindness on my part. Of course, it was going to keep going. For me. hiring the PR firm and just having other folks be excited about it was so huge. And I look forward to the day that I can actually hire other people. That will probably require, that sounds like a lot of research and time. But it's just nice to have other people who are involved in a project and working on it. And I get energy from having coworkers, I guess is, I get energy from other people working on a project with me. So I knew I had to keep a day job and this couldn't be my full-time job until I can afford to have a team. And so until this company makes enough money to support a team, I just keep a day job, and that is my working with other people outlet. And then I can just hammer this out on my own, a couple of hours a day and that's fine. I don't think I could work by myself 40 to 60 hours a week without other people around who are also excited about it.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eFelix: \u003c/strong\u003eThat's interesting. So let's say there's a scenario where you are making enough money where you could replace your day job with the income that you're paying yourself from the business. But you'd have to work on it yourself. You would rather hire people to take your place, and hire people to help continue building and maintain the business while you keep your day job?\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eMel: \u003c/strong\u003eYeah. Hands down. That's why I hired PR.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eFelix: \u003c/strong\u003eOh, that makes sense. I guess you've done that already. Okay, that makes sense. So when you are hiring help, I'm assuming you're hiring people to help you with things that you don't enjoy doing.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eMel: \u003c/strong\u003eYeah. Which is silly because probably the easiest hire to make would be someone to package and ship the swimsuits. But that is one of the most gratifying parts of this is putting a physical product in an envelope and sending it to someone. Because so much of my work is not tangible and never has been. So I love that part and I should probably just hire someone to do it, but it's so enjoyable for me.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eFelix: \u003c/strong\u003eI feel like it's fueling you. It's fueling you to give you the juice you need to continue running this thing. Even though again, conventional advice would run counter to that and say, \"Just spend your time on 'more value-producing activities.'\" If you are doing that and then you're burning yourself out, then the whole thing collapses anyway. So I think that's important to not give up the things that fulfill you, and fuel you, and keep you in the game. I think the reason why most people fail on this is because they give up too early, not because something catastrophic happened that's not recoverable from. You're usually giving up first, you know?\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eFelix: \u003c/strong\u003eSo I think it's important that you hold onto that. And I think that you recognize that and I think it's important advice that you're giving here, which is to hold onto the things that fulfill you and keep you in the game. So I think that you're totally doing the right thing for your situation.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eFelix: \u003c/strong\u003eSo you also mentioned that certain skills like emotional intelligence and empathy are just as useful as knowing how to market and how to write good copy, how to organize inventory. So say more about this because this is something new that I haven't heard yet on this podcast, about intelligence and empathy. I feel like I'm a robot asking you, but what is to your emotional intelligence and empathy?\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eMel: \u003c/strong\u003eFor me, it was what allowed me to answer customer service emails and do marketing in a way that I don't sound like a robot or I don't just sound like a copy of generic ad copy that's everywhere. So I think first startups where you're going to be doing a lot of stuff on your own in the beginning, you have to have a little heart and you have to be a little vulnerable.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eMel: \u003c/strong\u003eI'm a huge fan of Brene Brown, the Daring Greatly book about vulnerability and shame. And so, especially being in a business like swimsuits where it is a vulnerable thing to be in a swimsuit. And there's a lot of body shame around it in the world. So I just knew from the get go I was going to have to be very comfortable with this touchy section of the market. And especially trying to be oriented towards an LGBTQ audience and a plus size audience. Again, talk about vulnerability and shame. And I've been in both of those audiences myself. I have to be comfortable talking to other people about these sometimes uncomfortable parts of ourselves and be able to do it authentically and recognize their humanity. Otherwise, what am I doing?\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eFelix: \u003c/strong\u003eYeah. Is it learnable? Vulnerability, emotional intelligence, empathy. Can you learn these skills?\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eMel: \u003c/strong\u003eI think so. Absolutely. I've also been in years of therapy, and I think that that helped me develop more emotional intelligence and develop more ability to be real and authentic with other people because I wasn't scared and hiding.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eMel: \u003c/strong\u003eThe hardest part about being an entrepreneur is just putting myself out there and not taking rejection personally because it's my job to keep an eye on the content, or the comments section. And to read all the customer service emails. And I couldn't be defensive, which is my absolutely natural go-to.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eFelix: \u003c/strong\u003eMost people.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eMel: \u003c/strong\u003eYeah, and I'm especially so. If I get embarrassed, I get angry. It's not a good look as my wife has helped me learn. So I knew that I needed to have those skills to run this particular business. There might be businesses that you can run where you don't have to have those things. But for me, they're absolutely necessary for the people I'm interacting with on a daily basis.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eFelix: \u003c/strong\u003eYeah. I think authenticity and being able to be vulnerable is valuable in this day and age where it's so easy to be behind a mask. And I think it's so easy to slip back into your defenses and put on some mask that's not your true self. So when you are thinking about what you're doing when you're building your brand, when you're communicating with customers, are there certain things that you try to look for? I guess when you're looking at yourself, maybe introspectively to make sure that you are truly being yourself or truly being authentic and truly being vulnerable. And are there things that you look at like, \"I'm proud of myself because I've done X, Y, Z today\"?\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eMel: \u003c/strong\u003eYeah. I think if I'm understanding it correctly, it's like how do I check myself to make sure that I'm not being-\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eFelix: \u003c/strong\u003eYeah, exactly.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eMel: \u003c/strong\u003eJust time. Again, going slow. I'm giving myself room and space to figure it out. Customer service emails, I'm not real timely. I usually see them right when they come in, but I don't answer them right away. Good or bad because I know I need a day or two to digest. And just giving myself that space and time, not just frantically responding to everything in the minute. Our Facebook page will never have that badge of responds in 30 seconds. Because I need time. I'm a slow digester of emotions, both other people's in my owns and that's just who I am. Again, if you have time, go to years of therapy, that was really helpful.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eMel: \u003c/strong\u003eBut in the short term, for me when I write copy or I think about putting something out in the world. I think how would my best friend take this? How would my wife take this? How would someone I care about read this and take this? Because that's my audience is people I care about. So even if a customer, I've never met them before. If I'm thinking about my best friend or something when I'm writing copy or writing a social media post, I hope that it would mean something to them because I'm being my real 'self.'\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eFelix: \u003c/strong\u003eGot it. That makes sense. So thank you so much for your time Mel. So Beefcake Swimwear, which is at beefcakeswimwear.com is the website. I'll leave you with this final question. What was the biggest lesson that you learned last year that you want to definitely make sure you apply in this year?\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e \u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eMel: \u003c/strong\u003eI'd say trust your gut. Whether it's how to answer someone in an email or what style of swimsuit I wanted to do next, or if I had a bad gut feeling about something that I didn't do. And thank God in hindsight. Just trust your gut and give yourself, again that time and space to listen to yourself. I just don't think that there's anything wrong with, in a world that is super frenetic and super anxious, and super fast, with carving out time to go slow and be thoughtful about things, and to listen to people, and to learn, and then trust your gut.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eFelix: \u003c/strong\u003eI love it. I think that's something that I've been learning too, which is that answers are not always available. The answers that you're asking, questions that you're asking yourself, you don't have the answers always available, right when you ask it, right? It takes time to almost like let it bubble up. It's kind of weird to say, but it's like sometimes we look at ourselves, we feel like we can ask ourselves any question. We know ourselves, why don't we know the answer right away? But I think it's important that like you say, you pause. And I think that's the biggest benefit that I'm hearing from your experience, which is that by taking the time to pause, by going in a slower pace, you let the answers come out. You maybe make less decisions, but they seem to be more decisions that are aligned with the lifestyle that you want to create. And I think that I appreciate you coming on and sharing that because I think it's a different path that is not typically talked about.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eFelix: \u003c/strong\u003eSo again, really appreciate you coming on Mel. Good luck with everything. And again, beefcakeswimwear.com is the website. Thank you so much for your time.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eMel: \u003c/strong\u003eYeah. Thank you so much for having me. It's been a pleasure.\u003c/p\u003e","excerpt":"Mel Wells was inspired by her roommate's desire for a 1920s styled swimsuit to start Beefcake Swimwear. Mel took two years to find sustainable fabrics and an ethical American manufacturer before launching. In this episode of Shopify Masters, you'll hear from Mel on why it's important to grow at your own pace.","excerptHtml":"\u003cp\u003e\u003cimg src=\"//cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0070/7032/files/Masters_Beefcake_04.jpg?v=1576199216\" alt=\"portrait of beefcake swimwear founder Mel Wells\"\u003eMel Wells was inspired by her roommate's desire for a 1920s styled swimsuit to start Beefcake Swimwear. Mel took two years to find sustainable fabrics and an ethical American manufacturer before launching. In this episode of Shopify Masters, you'll hear from Mel on why it's important to grow at your own pace. \u003c/p\u003e","seo":{"__typename":"SEO","title":null,"description":"Mel Wells was inspired by her roommate's desire for a 1920s styled swimsuit to start Beefcake Swimwear. Mel took two years to find sustainable fabrics and an ethical American manufacturer before launching. In this episode of Shopify Masters, you'll hear from Mel on why it's important to grow at your own pace. 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Mel took two years to find sustainable fabrics and an ethical American manufacturer before launching. In this episode of Shopify Masters, you'll hear from Mel on why it's important to grow at your own pace. ","contentHtml":"\u003cp style=\"text-align: left;\"\u003eMel Wells was inspired by her roommate's desire for a 1920s styled swimsuit to start\u0026nbsp;\u003ca href=\"https://www.beefcakeswimwear.com/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow noopener noreferrer\"\u003eBeefcake Swimwear\u003c/a\u003e. Initially sewing pieces herself, Mel then took the time to research and find sustainable fabrics and an ethical American manufacturer.\u0026nbsp;\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eTaking two years before launching, Beefcake Swimwear is a true reflection of Mel's\u0026nbsp;dedication\u0026nbsp;to\u0026nbsp;thoughtfully produce androgynous vintage-inspired swimwear.\u0026nbsp;\u0026nbsp;\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eIn this episode of Shopify Masters, you'll hear from Mel Wells of Beefcake Swimwear on\u0026nbsp;why it's important to grow at your own pace and how to create a brand that authentically reflects who you are.\u0026nbsp;\u003c/p\u003e\u003cdiv id=\"text-cta\" class=\"hidden lg:block\"\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\n\u003cmeta charset=\"utf-8\"\u003e\u003cmeta charset=\"utf-8\"\u003e\u003cmeta charset=\"utf-8\"\u003e\n\u003cblockquote class=\"border-l-2 pl-4 font-aktivgroteskextended text-xl font-medium tracking-tight my-12 [\u0026amp;_p]:mb-4 [\u0026amp;_cite]:font-aktivgroteskextended [\u0026amp;_cite]:text-sm [\u0026amp;_cite]:not-italic [\u0026amp;_cite]:font-medium [\u0026amp;_cite]:tracking-[-0.0175rem] [\u0026amp;_footer]:mt-4 [\u0026amp;_cite::before]:content-[\u0026quot;–\u0026quot;] [\u0026amp;_cite::before]:mr-1 border-blog-highlight\"\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cspan\u003eI think there's this false narrative of you have to grow, you have to grow fast, you have to grow big.\u003c/span\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003c/blockquote\u003e\n\u003ch3\u003eTune in to learn\u003c/h3\u003e\n\u003cmeta charset=\"utf-8\"\u003e\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003eHow you can still succeed in business when you’re not a risk-taker\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003eWhat to do if you’re an entrepreneur that likes starting businesses but tend to jump around\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003eWhy hiring\u0026nbsp;a PR agency\u0026nbsp;is a worthwhile investment\u0026nbsp;\u0026nbsp;\u0026nbsp;\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\u003ciframe height=\"200px\" width=\"100%\" frameborder=\"no\" scrolling=\"no\" seamless=\"\" src=\"https://player.simplecast.com/e074aeee-0d61-4c2f-b9f3-ee64f39208ad?dark=true\"\u003e\u003c/iframe\u003e\n\u003cdiv style=\"text-align: center;\"\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eDon't miss an episode! Subscribe to Shopify Masters.\u003c/strong\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\n\u003ccenter\u003e\n\u0026nbsp;\u0026nbsp;\n\u003c/center\u003e\n\u003ch3\u003eShow Notes\u003c/h3\u003e\n\u003cul\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\n\u003cstrong\u003eStore:\u003c/strong\u003e\u0026nbsp;\u003ca href=\"https://www.beefcakeswimwear.com/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow noopener noreferrer\"\u003eBeefcake Swimwear\u003c/a\u003e\n\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\n\u003cstrong\u003eSocial Profiles:\u003c/strong\u003e\u0026nbsp;\u003ca href=\"https://www.facebook.com/beefcakeswimwear\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow noopener noreferrer\"\u003eFacebook\u003c/a\u003e,\u0026nbsp;\u003ca href=\"https://twitter.com/beefcake_swim\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow noopener noreferrer\"\u003eTwitter\u003c/a\u003e,\u0026nbsp;\u003ca href=\"http://instagram.com/beefcakeswimwear\" target=\"_blank\"\u003eInstagram\u003c/a\u003e\n\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003cli\u003e\n\u003cstrong\u003eRecommendations:\u003c/strong\u003e\u0026nbsp;\u003ca href=\"https://www.jld-studios.com/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow noopener noreferrer\"\u003eJLD Studios\u003c/a\u003e,\u0026nbsp;\u003ca href=\"https://www.rebelliouspr.com/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow noopener noreferrer\"\u003eRebellious PR\u003c/a\u003e\n\u003c/li\u003e\n\u003c/ul\u003e\n\u003cul\u003e\u003c/ul\u003e\n\u003cp style=\"text-align: center;\"\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eTranscript\u0026nbsp;\u003c/strong\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eFelix: \u003c/strong\u003eToday I'm joined by Mel Wells from Beefcake Swimwear. Beefcake Swimwear makes androgynous one-piece 1920s swimsuits in the USA with sustainable manufacturing and inclusive sizing. Was started 2017 and is based out of Missoula, Montana. Welcome, Mel.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eMel: \u003c/strong\u003eThank you. I'm happy to be here.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eFelix: \u003c/strong\u003eAwesome. So all of this started with you on a vintage sewing machine in your basement. And it says here that you attempted to replicate a 1920 swimsuit for your roommate. So what were you doing making 1920s swimsuits?\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eMel: \u003c/strong\u003eWell, she really wanted one, but of course they're all vintage and they're all made of wool, which is not great for swimming in. And I grew up like a nerd sewing my own clothes because I was so tall. So I was like, \"I know how to do this. I know how to sew clothes. I'll try making one for you.\" Turns out sewing stretchy fabric is terrible. But along the way, a bunch of other folks said that they were also interested in 1920s swimsuits. And so I started to think it might be a viable business idea. I just knew that I didn't want to do the sewing.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eFelix: \u003c/strong\u003eRight. So first of all, I didn't know that back then it was made out of wool. I see all those photos, but I have no idea that they must've felt so uncomfortable, but I guess they didn't know any better back then. So that's interesting. So when you first made this, I guess very, very first edition, this very first prototype. Were you looking to seek feedback to see if there was a viable business out of it or how did people start noticing your creation?\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eMel: \u003c/strong\u003eIt was mostly because I was complaining about it. I lived in a house with a bunch of roommates and was just sewing it in the living room. And so folks would come by and see what I was doing. Or I was talking to my friends that I was making one for, and she was talking to other people. So this weird word of mouth started up where it seemed to be that everybody was really interested in a swimsuit that was masculine, that didn't have a skirt on it but still had some coverage.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eFelix: \u003c/strong\u003eGot it. So you recognize that there might be a viable business model out of it because people were expressing interest in it. And you'd launched us on Kickstarter, which we'll get to in a bit. Did you ever do any validation before that? Did you try selling in any other ways before you took that leap towards investing your time and resource into a Kickstarter campaign?\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eMel: \u003c/strong\u003eI really didn't. I figured a Kickstarter was a low-risk way to see if it would actually work. I did spend about two years and about, I'd say about $5,000 of my own money just researching and prototyping. So I lucked out.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eMel: \u003c/strong\u003eI found this place in Portland, Oregon that was a manufacturer of activewear that had zero minimums, which in retail is like insane. So I contacted them and asked them about prototyping just to see, cause I knew that this was a good idea. I just didn't know how to do it. And so they were super helpful. It's JLD-Studios in Portland, Oregon and they only do leggings now, but I snuck in and got them to do my swimsuits.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eMel: \u003c/strong\u003eAnd we tested on, I think I mailed suits and had probably about 10 or 12 people across the country. Just friends and friends of friends. Try them on, give me feedback on how they fit. Just so I could get as close to, well not perfect, but as close to what I wanted as possible when we did finally launched the Kickstarter.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eFelix: \u003c/strong\u003eOkay. So two years, $5,000 of your own money. This is a pretty big investment for time and money wise for someone that's just ... first of all, was this your first attempt at starting a business?\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eMel: \u003c/strong\u003eI've always been entrepreneurial. In fifth grade, the first time I got called to the principal's office was for selling candy on the playground.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eFelix: \u003c/strong\u003eRite of passage for an entrepreneur.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eMel: \u003c/strong\u003eI have a long history.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eFelix: \u003c/strong\u003eYeah. But even then, two years and 5,000. I mean, I think the two years part is even more of an investment where I would see a lot of, I think that's an accomplishment because I think a lot of people will spend two years or would try to spend two years or something and give up along the way. So you had a plan, obviously, you had this vision in mind for what you wanted, at least perfect to your vision. What were you looking for? What was it that you wanted to see before you felt comfortable moving forward and eventually go on Kickstarter?\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eMel: \u003c/strong\u003eFor me, it was so slow because I'm really into research and I'm very much, I like to know what I'm jumping into before I actually take a leap. So part of that was just personal style. I wasn't like struggling for two years. It was researching and doing all this in my spare time. I worked at a nonprofit where my day job was more than full time. And I'm also a little bit of a writer so I had other hobbies going on. So it was just was where I could put time into on the side was part of the reason it took so long.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eMel: \u003c/strong\u003eFor me, I just wanted to make sure that I did it right. I really cared about the people that I would be making these swimsuits for, and I wanted to do it sustainably. And to just kind of grow slow. It really wasn't about making money, it was about doing this thing and doing it right.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eFelix: \u003c/strong\u003eRight. Yeah. I think this is concept what you talk about in the pre-interview, which I definitely want to touch on about going slow, going at a pace that makes sense for you is an important one because a lot of people get burnt out if they think that there's this timeline. They're watching the clock and trying to get somewhere sooner than what's maybe comfortable for them. So how do you keep the momentum going though? Because I think there's this also other side which is where you go enough, you start feeling the friction, you start feeling the drag more of this thing slowing down. [inaudible] basically burning out. Right. And then in any other way. So how did you keep the momentum going to make sure that you were at least stay on track even though you were going at a slower pace?\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eMel: \u003c/strong\u003eI think it was just the excitement whenever I talk to other people about this project. Everyone that I talked to from the initial fitters, the fit testers were just so excited about the swimsuit. It helped me be really excited. And then once we launched the Kickstarter, that blew up and the feedback was incredible, and we had an original goal of raising $10,000. I knew that was my minimum viable make this thing work and not lose my shirt amount. And we raised 35,000. And so that was thrilling.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eMel: \u003c/strong\u003eAnd then along the way, we've had people email us saying, \"This is the first time I've been in a swimsuit in 10 years,\" or, \"I cried when I put this on because it felt so good.\" The feedback that we get from folks wearing the swimsuits is what really keeps me excited and motivated even when this is still a part-time job for me. It's still in addition to my day job evenings and weekends, just whenever I can\u0026nbsp;sneak it in.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eFelix: \u003c/strong\u003eRight. I think that's an important thing to look for. Where the journey can be very lonely, especially if you're doing this by yourself, which you are in your case where you're the sole employee, solo founder of this thing. So what you look for is that you look towards the community, right? You look towards the people's lives that you're improving and then using that as fuel. You're saying, sometimes you just need one person, that you're improving their life. It makes it worthwhile for you to spend the time on this. So two years again that you spent on this, how many iterations did it take before you got to that point where you felt comfortable moving forward from this \u003ca href=\"/ca/blog/what-is-research-and-development\" target=\"_blank\"\u003eresearch and development\u003c/a\u003e phase?\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eMel: \u003c/strong\u003eWell there was my initial terrible one and then there was the, I think we had two or three that JLD made first that I tried on. I had my friend try on, I had my girlfriend at the time try on. And then we had some feedback and we did one more iteration, and sent those all over the country and had those folks try them on. And then we went for it.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eMel: \u003c/strong\u003eSo we did all the seats with the Kickstarter. We did about, I think it was 350 suits. And then we started selling online. But then I started getting feedback from folks who had supported the Kickstarter that they wanted improvements. And I always viewed the Kickstarter as help us start this thing, give us feedback, help us make it the best product possible.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eMel: \u003c/strong\u003eSo I did a survey of all our Kickstarter backers and tried to really listen to them and see what was working for folks and what wasn't. And one big thing that we did that we stopped doing was a shelf bra. It just didn't work well enough for enough people. So we stopped doing that and we started lining the entire front of the suit. It added probably a couple of dollars worth of material and labor to each suit, but to me, it was worth it.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eMel: \u003c/strong\u003eWe also switched fabrics to something more sustainable. The fabric we use now is imported from Italy. It's some of the most sustainable polyester fabric that you can find. It's 100% recycled polyester. And then the Lycra spandex content is chlorine resistant. So it's some of the best fabric you can find in the world. And so we started making our suits with that fabric, lining the front. Then I felt like okay, now we've really got it right and I feel confident about it.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eFelix: \u003c/strong\u003eYeah. And so even to this day, are you still getting feedback on ways to improve the product and are planning on implementing those today?\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eMel: \u003c/strong\u003eThe bust support is one thing that we have not figured out that a lot of people ask for. It's kind of an engineering problem where you have to find something that will bind up top but will also fit over a person's hips. And we have not figured that out yet in this specific type of swimsuits. So that's something that is always on my mind. But that's probably a few years down the road, to be honest. It's a lot of money to prototype, and right now we're pouring all of our money into just keeping our inventory in stock.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eFelix: \u003c/strong\u003eGot it. Yeah. I think that the important point where there is no, this finalized stage of your product or finalized stage of your business. You're always constantly trying to make improvements or take feedback and implement it, or spending time trying to solve things. I think it's an important point where a lot of times people, \"I'm going to launch on Kickstarter, I get the money and I sell the products and that's it.\" It's usually not the case, right? If you don't like solving problems, you're in the wrong field. This a constant game. I'm sure we'll get into that in a little bit.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eFelix: \u003c/strong\u003eBut yeah. Let's talk about Kickstarter. So you mentioned earlier $10,000 was the goal and you ended up raising over 35,000 from 422 backers. So how did it happen? What were you doing pre-Kickstarter now you look back on it, that helped you get this campaign successfully funded?\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eMel: \u003c/strong\u003eI think a lot of my research probably helps. Part of that two years before launching was looking at other Kickstarters, seeing what was successful, seeing who failed, backing some, seeing what rewards I have got, how soon they set their awards. And just making sure that I knew what a really good campaign entailed. Because it seems, I think at the surface level it can seem really easy. But a Kickstarter campaign is a difficult thing to execute and execute well. I get people asking me all the time, \"How did you do it?\" And I'm like, \"Two years of work.\" And then they don't email me back.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eFelix: \u003c/strong\u003eNo. They want to know how you did it overnight is the idea that they want to find out from you. So what were some of the things that you found in about what made a campaign successful? If you were to launch another campaign, what are some things that you'd want to definitely include to at least I guess, shift the odds into your favor?\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eMel: \u003c/strong\u003eYeah, I think for me having a prototype that was done and like in the video so you could see it in action is really important. I saw a lot of folks who just didn't have anything as a consumer. Reading these Kickstarters campaigns, it didn't seem viable to me or it just didn't seem quite real. So any question whether or not you can pull this off. You have to be able to say, \"Yes, we've done it. Here it is.\"\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eMel: \u003c/strong\u003eThe other one was the human connection. For me, my video was not slick. I did it in my office, in my apartment. But it was for me it was very authentic and from my heart. \"This is why I'm doing this. This is the person you are giving the money to.\" And I try really hard to continue that very personal human connection where it's not like I'm the boss and you are my consumers. It's like I'm a person doing this thing that I hope you will like. I'm looking for fans more than customers.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eFelix: \u003c/strong\u003eThat's a good perspective. So are there things in your research that you definitely want to avoid including or during your campaign that is likely to cause failure?\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eMel: \u003c/strong\u003eI'd say communicate as often as you possibly can. It's a lot of work, but just a little note to people so they're not hanging really helps. And then sometimes I'd answer something and then we'd see a bump in backers. So I think that people really look to what you're saying even during the campaign to see whether or not they want to support you.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eFelix: \u003c/strong\u003eGot it. And you mentioned that one of the factors that you looked at was the time I guess, the timeline between backing it and getting the, I guess the end of the campaign and getting the reward. Was there an optimal timeline that you saw?\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eMel: \u003c/strong\u003eIt was within six months, I'd say. You got to turn things around pretty quickly. And I understand some folks would sell crazy amounts, and I didn't want ... confession, I didn't want to succeed too much because I didn't want to outstrip my ability to deliver. And so I did a shorter campaign. My motto is always under-promise and then over-deliver. So I knew how many suits my manufacturer could make per month and I tried to time the delivery of those rewards accordingly so that everybody wasn't backing and thinking they were all going to get their rewards in the first three months if that makes sense.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eFelix: \u003c/strong\u003eThat does. Got it. So once the campaign ended, you successfully broke through, tripled your goal and raised $35,000. What was next? What happened after the campaign ended?\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eMel: \u003c/strong\u003eWe started making suits.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eFelix: \u003c/strong\u003eYou mentioned that you already had a manufactured lined up at a time, right?\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eMel: \u003c/strong\u003eYeah, yeah, yeah. And I had their timeline lined up. And I knew that the very end of the campaign, some folks' suits, it was going to be pushing up into October, which is kind of a crappy time to be getting a swimsuit in the United States. But again, I just tried to be as super communicative with folks and let them know, \"Hey, I have this manufacturer. They're small, they're woman-owned, they're in the United States. I really believe them and trust them, and enjoy partnering with them. So that's who I'm using. I'm not going to outsource this. You're just going to have to be patient.\"\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eFelix: \u003c/strong\u003eRight. Makes sense. Okay, so you went and manufactured that. Your timeline was also, I guess on the reward that had the longest time. And that was six months?\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eMel: \u003c/strong\u003eYeah, I think our campaign ended, I think it was April 5th, and I think our final suits shipped a week before thanksgiving, something like that. And then we launched our online store in November. Which is again, such a weird time to launch a swimsuit company online. But it was nice because we didn't have much inventory. We started with about 100 suits because we had spent so much time making all the Kickstarter rewards that it was actually good because then we didn't sell out immediately.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eFelix: \u003c/strong\u003eOkay. Got it. So you basically went almost dark for a bit and just focused on manufacturing these suits to fulfill the orders from the Kickstarter. And then once you got to that phase, you then launched your website with some inventory about 100 suits, and you went live then. What informed your decision on what kind of inventory to stock?\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eMel: \u003c/strong\u003eWell, I'm a spreadsheet nerd. So I made a spreadsheet of which sizes and styles sold on the Kickstarter and then just used that as my guide when I was ordering more suits to keep in stock.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eFelix: \u003c/strong\u003eYou basically extrapolated the percent, the breakdown of percentages of people of different sizes over 100 pieces. Okay, got it. Did that match up? The reality between what you sold on Kickstarter matched up with the reality of what you sold on your website?\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eMel: \u003c/strong\u003eOh yeah. Yeah, yeah. That was a really good indicator of what was going to sell. And even now as I launch new suits, I can align the sizes that I think will sell with what sold previously. Sometimes we get that wrong. Often, we've been marketing more towards plus-sized consumers. So I've been sold out of the larger sizes a lot this summer, unfortunately. But it's been pretty predictive.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eFelix: \u003c/strong\u003eGot it. So when you are selling on your own site, I guess that very first month or so that you were launching your own site, were you doing anything at that time to promote it? How are people finding out about it now that the buzz from Kickstarter might've started to fizzle out?\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eMel: \u003c/strong\u003eIt was still just word of mouth. We have an Instagram that has been pretty successful I think. And it was cute because we started getting photos from folks wearing their swimsuits, which was awesome and so fun to see. So I just started re-posting those.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eMel: \u003c/strong\u003eI think I maybe spent $500 the first year on advertising because we had no budget. Every penny we made went right back into making more inventory.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eFelix: \u003c/strong\u003eGot it. Makes Sense. So you mentioned that your process for launching new suits, I want to learn more about this. How do you decide what to design? How do you know what you should be focused on producing next?\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eMel: \u003c/strong\u003eI try to listen to folks. In one of those Kickstarter surveys, I asked everybody what colors they would most like to see. And those were green and purple. So the next suits that we launched were a green one and a purple one. And honestly, the green one I launched because it was the suit that I wanted. The stone fox, it's very seventies. I was a little worried. I was curious to see how it would go. And that's become our second bestseller after the original in black. So that was pretty exciting to see.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eFelix: \u003c/strong\u003eMakes sense. So you mentioned that you do something interesting, which is that whenever you do sell a product and you ship it out, you insert a card with every purchase asking folks to tag you on social. How has this worked out so far?\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eMel: \u003c/strong\u003eIt's been awesome. We do have folks who are really enthusiastic about our suits. It's so funny, we just did a photoshoot the other day and we had a very diverse lineup of people, very different body types and styles, and genders. And they all put on their swimsuits, and people literally walk out of the dressing room dancing. And it's like when was the last time you put on a swimsuit and were excited about it? Swimsuit shopping is horrible. I was worried. I was like maybe you folks won't want to tag us cause posting a picture of yourself in a swimsuit feels kind of vulnerable. But so far people love them and feel comfortable, and strong, and confident in them. And that has been fantastic to see.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eFelix: \u003c/strong\u003eThat's amazing. Yeah. The photos on your site are awesome, the product photos and the lifestyle shots are awesome. How was that done? Was that done all in-house? You hire help with creating a photoshoot like this?\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eMel: \u003c/strong\u003eWell with our shoestring budget, our first photoshoot was all friends. Actually, our last one was pretty much all friends too. And then we hire a local photographer and we try to be really cognizant of having a very diverse lineup. And that's really representative of a wide spectrum of folks. And that's all, just we hire a photographer. My wife actually pretty much handles the photoshoots. She herds the cats, and then we just go have a fun party on the beach and take photos.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eFelix: \u003c/strong\u003eThat's amazing. So I want to get back to this idea of how you are going at your own pace. And you mentioned that you guys have grown thoughtfully and sustainably, and you're more interested in disrupting the exploitative, harmful business of fast fashion and creating a quality product than you are in terms of making loads of quick cash or being on Shark Tank or trying to get all this buzz on TV. And that's the approach that you want to take. And I think there's again an important counterpoint to the more often seen and heard advice of entrepreneurship, which is to just live on ramen and just spent all your money and stress out every night about your business. Otherwise, you're not an entrepreneur. You're talking about taking a much more mindful and I think saying an approach to running a business. Tell us about, was that difficult for you when you're hearing so much, I guess advise counter to that?\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eMel: \u003c/strong\u003eYeah. It's been an interesting journey because imposter syndrome is real. I just want to put that out there. And I am cautious because I didn't want to put all my eggs in this basket. I've always known with swimsuits H\u0026amp;M could do a suit like this tomorrow and charge so much less and just kill us. I mean, that would be it. Except for I hope folks would understand the way that we make things and the quality of our product. But let's be honest, retail is cutthroat and it's to me, not somewhere I wanted to invest my whole life. And so it's always kind of been like let's do this thing. Let's do it extremely well, and let's see where it goes.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eMel: \u003c/strong\u003eAnd I also, I think there's this false narrative of you have to grow, you have to grow fast, you have to grow big. And I watch companies grow and then die, and then grow and then die because they have so much debt that just one thing makes them really unstable. So for me, it's always been about being really sustainable, not just in an environmentally friendly way, but in an energy way. In a money way for me.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eMel: \u003c/strong\u003eWe've never been in debt. We took out a very, very tiny loan our first year for a little cash flow so we could get some inventory. But other than that, we've been in the black since we started, and that is extremely important to me. I'm not really a risk-taker when it comes to businesses and I think that you're right, there's this narrative of you have to otherwise it's not real. But this is real, and it feels good.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eFelix: \u003c/strong\u003eYeah. I think I really want to hear more of your story about this, not a risk-taker because again, this is very counter to mainstream entrepreneurship storylines where you have to take a lot of risks. So you're not a risk-taker. Tell us more about your experience because of your comment with that personality, right, where you are risk-averse. Because I think a lot of people hesitate to go into entrepreneurship or start their own business because they think they don't have the guts to take big risks. But you are demonstrating that you can start a business, go at your own pace, and not take crazy risks. Just tell us about maybe the pros and cons of that. What have you been able to do that you think that you would not be able to do? If you weren't so I guess careful with your approach to starting a business.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eMel: \u003c/strong\u003eYeah, I think my work-life balance has been a lot better. I'm not eating ramen and living with 14 roommates. I was in my thirties when I started this. I was done with that lifestyle. And I'd been able to have a social life. I would not recommend doing a Kickstarter while you're also planning a wedding, but I did that.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eFelix: \u003c/strong\u003eWhich one was harder?\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eMel: \u003c/strong\u003eOh my God. Probably the wedding, honestly. But I don't know. For me, it's just been a matter of that's my life. I like having a lot of different projects happening. I think I would get bored and burnt out if this was my whole life. And again, I feel like an imposter because I'm not constantly on Instagram talking about entrepreneur life and talking up my business. Because it's not the whole thing about who I am. I'm not saving the world. I know that. I'm just making swimsuits that hopefully make a good, positive difference in people's lives.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eMel: \u003c/strong\u003eWould it be cool to make $1 million? Yeah. I don't hate money. But I also just don't want to ... I think it's because I got married honestly and I wanted to be a responsible partner. I didn't want to risk all of my money because it would affect my partner doing this thing. So I think she probably helped me be a little more reasonable about what I could and couldn't take on. And that has been really nice. I think I would probably hate this business if it was taking over my life and causing me to lose sleep, and stressing me out all the time. I love that it's really enjoyable, and I think the pace is part of the reason I enjoy it.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eFelix: \u003c/strong\u003eRight. I think it's kind of a balancing act, right? It's not just that you can just start working for a month because you feel like taking a break. There's still a balance of at least maintaining it. Right? There's at least maintenance mode. So what are some things I maybe you said no to? I guess this is more in the concept. What are some opportunities that maybe you said no to or some opportunities that you saw that you decided not to pursue because you wanted to make sure that you wouldn't hate your business at the end of the day?\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eMel: \u003c/strong\u003eI mean, marketing. I just haven't done that much. We finally hired a PR firm this summer and that's been phenomenal because it's something I don't enjoy, but it's something I didn't have money for until this year. And they are really helping us grow, and it's so fun to have people to talk to besides my wife, who are excited about the business, and understand what we're doing, and are trying to help us grow. I wish I could have afforded that the first year because it's been a game-changer for my energy levels and my enjoyment of what I'm doing. So yeah, I said no to that the first year because we just couldn't afford it. And that has made a huge positive difference in what we're doing.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eFelix: \u003c/strong\u003eRight. I'm sure it varies from industry to industry, maybe from city to city, but what are some budgets that you'd need to at least have before you can even think about hiring a PR firm or PR agency?\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eMel: \u003c/strong\u003eWell budgeting wise, I just wanted to do my taxes the first year and see what we even had leftover. Our suits are $42 to make, and that's just fabric and labor. And so a $99 price point is kind of insane in the retail world. And I try to be really transparent about that so that whenever someone objects to our price point because I understand it's way more expensive than Target or Walmart or something. I try to explain no, this is what manufacturing that isn't exploiting people looks like. This is how everything should be priced so that the folks who are making it are receiving fair wages. We're not exploiting the earth, we're not exploiting resources. We're doing this.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eMel: \u003c/strong\u003eSo that first year, we barely were a six-figure company, which all my family was like, \"Oh my gosh, you're going to quit your job.\" And I was like no because our costs are so high, the actual take-home was much lower. And I wasn't sure how taxes were going to work out that first year. So I just kind of didn't know what we even had to work out or to work with. So after we got our tax returns back this year and I was like, \"Oh cool, we made a profit last year. I can hire advertising this year.\"\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eFelix: \u003c/strong\u003eThat's cool. So basically you definitely need to have, you can't really invest in this rough to bat in the PR agency. It makes sense for you to look at this as a way to celebrate your growth once you have some kind of sustainable business at first. So tell us about what it's like to work with someone that works, I guess with a PR agency. What's their job? What do they do for you?\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eMel: \u003c/strong\u003eYeah. So we work with a company called Rebellious PR and they are in Portland, Oregon. And they are super queer-friendly, woman-owned, amazing company. And I was also really, really picky about who I wanted to work with, and these guys were my dream team because I feel like they understand what we're doing.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eMel: \u003c/strong\u003eAnd they have been accessing reporters that I don't have time or interest in trying to send out a million press releases to everybody. But they have those contacts, they know their writing styles. They can spend time doing that. So that was my number one awesome please do this for me request.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eMel: \u003c/strong\u003eA fun thing they have been doing is finding some influencers to wear swimsuits. So, Jess who was on Queer Eye, she wore our new suit, the charmer, the rainbow pride suit. And that was the first post anywhere, it was on Instagram. That's how we launched our suit. And that was so fun because I love Jess and the response was so positive. And that would have never happened without these guys.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eFelix: \u003c/strong\u003eThat's awesome. Okay. So they found these influencers for you? They found people that work with publications that might want to write about you. What's your involvement? When you hire a PR agency, I'm sure it's not just the wipe your hands clean and they do all your marketing for you. What do you have to do to contribute to the success?\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eMel: \u003c/strong\u003eWe have a weekly phone call where we chat about things. We email a couple of times a week. I enjoy writing. I consider myself a writer, so I've been putting together some pitches or just some ideas for pitches for them to send out. And mostly, I'd say just talking through how we want to brand things. And they have little homework assignments for me sometimes. They were actually the ones who connected me with this podcast. So they've been helping me figure out how to position the brand and talk about it and get it out in the world.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eFelix: \u003c/strong\u003eGot it. So I want to talk about the spreadsheets that you seem to love looking at. And I think important that especially because you're looking at this early on because I think a lot of times businesses start off and they don't know their numbers for a long time. And I'm surprised sometimes they can last long enough to have the luxury of not looking at the numbers. But you seem to know your numbers from the very beginning. What are the numbers that people should be paying attention to, especially when you're just starting out? What are the key things to keep a laser focus on to make sure that you're not going to go bankrupt?\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eMel: \u003c/strong\u003eYeah, I think it's really important to figure out how much it is actually costing you to make a product, and how much you are paying yourself. And having a sort of honest conversation with yourself of am I paying myself enough to not burn out?\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eMel: \u003c/strong\u003eWe knew really early exactly how much it would cost to produce a swimsuit, exactly how much the packaging was. And I made a spreadsheet and broke it down into a per swimsuit price, partly for myself and partly so that I could talk to people about it. That $99 price point. Again, if anybody had any pushback, I could go through and explain exactly what is involved in deciding that price point. If we were a luxury, we could probably do a $300 swimsuit, but that's not what I want to do.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eMel: \u003c/strong\u003eAnyway yeah, just paying attention to how much it's actually costing you to run your business. Hard materials and labor wise, and being honest with yourself about that is really important.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eFelix: \u003c/strong\u003eAre there surprises that you think maybe are not as seasoned at looking at the numbers might run into or might maybe gloss over when they are trying to calculate the cost? Surprises that are like, \"Hey surprise you owe more money than you'd think,\" kind of surprises?\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eMel: \u003c/strong\u003eWell, hiring an accountant is more expensive than you think. That was a surprise. I think just my personality is also pretty optimistic. So I myself will gloss over how much things are really costing because I want them to be otherwise. So for me, I'm not intimidated by numbers. It's pretty simple math. Anyone can do it. If you can add and subtract and if you have a calculator, you shouldn't be intimidated by the numbers. And it's interesting because it's real numbers. This is your life, this is your business. So it's not scary hard math.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eMel: \u003c/strong\u003eBut also, I just had to remember to really take a hard look at what everything was costing. And not just being like, \"I can use this roll of packing tape that was leftover from my day job.\" And it's like no, you need to go buy your own tape and factor it in. It's so silly. It was probably $6. But just little things like that really add up.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eFelix: \u003c/strong\u003eRight. You have to set up your almost financial models for scale where you can't just be like, \"I can skimp here because I can find recycled this or recycled that.\" You actually have to think about if you're running this as a business that was maybe 10 times this size, are these numbers that you would actually care about. So I think that's an important point about how you have to take it seriously. Even if you're just starting out and you bring in nothing. You take it seriously from the start, I think you can make much wiser decisions.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eFelix: \u003c/strong\u003eSo I want to talk about the other point which you brought up, which is about how you have to pay yourself enough to not burn out. I love the way you say it. I never heard anyone say before, but I think it's a reality, which is if you are just busting your butt for five years and not make any money at all, you're crazy or you're going to burn out somewhere before that.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eFelix: \u003c/strong\u003eSo tell us about how you recognize. I think a lot of the other, I guess advice or storyline of a counter to, or narrative counter to what you're telling us here is that don't pay yourself anything. Pay yourself last and don't make any money from the business. But you're saying to keep this sustainable, to make sure you enjoy this, make sure that you actually are paying yourselves. Did you know that from the beginning or did you discover that along the way?\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eMel: \u003c/strong\u003eI think I knew that from the beginning. I've gotten burnt out at work before at other jobs. We all made bad decisions and burned ourselves. And I think at this point, I recognize that I love starting projects. That's so fun and so interesting, and it's challenging. But then I knew I was going to need something to keep me doing it. And part of that was just straight-up money. I'll buy myself a new pair of shoes and just be like, \"You know what, you made money last year. You're in the black, you can buy yourself a freaking pair of shoes and that's okay.\" You know? And just little things like that where it feels like yes, I'm in this business to make awesome suits and I don't want to exploit people price-wise, but I don't want to exploit myself. So I have to recognize I'm going to need some little carrots along the way to keep myself doing this. And sometimes that's just going to be money.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eFelix: \u003c/strong\u003eYeah. I think it's important to note that when you burn yourself out, you are doing a disservice to your customers because you're not going to produce a good product but maybe you'll go out of business and you no longer are serving anybody. So I think that's important that you do that.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eFelix: \u003c/strong\u003eSo I'm not sure, did you have a methodical approach to arriving at his number? I think people are going to also take this advice and think, what's the bay bare minimum that I could pay myself? And then end up choosing something too small and then burning out because of that. So how do you make sure that you're happy with the number that you choose to pay yourself?\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eMel: \u003c/strong\u003eFor me it was like I'm going to start with minimum wage, and just try to see if I can do that. With the idea of if for some reason something happened to me, and this business still needed to run and we had to hire someone. I don't know, I break my arm and I can't package swimsuits or something. Just a hypothetical what would I pay someone else to do this? And if I couldn't get minimum wage in there, then something needed to change our original price by, it was $95 a suit. I worked it out to ideally we'd be about 108 or 115. We're not, we're still at 99. And I am trying my damnedest to keep it under a hundred, but I think we're probably going to have to raise our prices at some point.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eFelix: \u003c/strong\u003eJust because of the cost that it requires for you to run the business?\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eMel: \u003c/strong\u003eYeah. I barely paid myself minimum wage last year and I'm probably still lying to myself about that number, to be honest. Speaking of don't lie to yourself.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eFelix: \u003c/strong\u003eYeah. Well, you at least know that you're lying to yourself. So you mentioned also to us that you realize that after the last couple of years, is that starting a business was more complicated and time-consuming than you had imagined. And then you compared to planning a wedding as well. So looking back on it, what were some things that you may be overlooked that surprised you? Because I think complications or things that take more time are usually surprised. Right? So what are some surprises along the way that made this a little more complicated, time-consuming than you had originally thought?\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eMel: \u003c/strong\u003eYeah, I think customer service emails take a lot more time and energy than I originally thought. I hadn't had a whole lot of experience in retail, to be honest. I've always been on nonprofit, publishing tracks in my career. So that was a surprise. Just budgeting enough time for that. And then again speaking to my I love starting projects thing. We did the Kickstarter and then I was like, \"Oh wait, I own a business. I have to keep going. I have to figure out how to design a website.\" And thank God for the templates on Shopify cause I am not a web designer. So shout out to those. It's been really nice to have a sort of plug and play option that I can just tinker with and do on my own without having to hire someone. Especially in that early part where we just had zero budget for anything.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eFelix: \u003c/strong\u003eYeah. You said this a couple of times I want to touch on it, which is around the idea that you like starting projects. I think anyone out there that is an entrepreneur that is constantly thinking of ideas has the same issue where starting and then sustaining and then finishing a project are totally different skill sets that ideally one person has or ideally your team has, or you just suffer through it all. So when you are starting a project and you start reaching this point where it's like okay, well the honeymoon phase is starting to wane out. What do you look for? I guess you talk about money a little bit, but what else do you look for to keep, what kind of commitments do you made yourself or what do you do to make sure that you aren't just jumping from project to project?\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eMel: \u003c/strong\u003eYeah. I think the project like this, it's turned out to be bigger and longer than I had initially thought, which is just blindness on my part. Of course, it was going to keep going. For me. hiring the PR firm and just having other folks be excited about it was so huge. And I look forward to the day that I can actually hire other people. That will probably require, that sounds like a lot of research and time. But it's just nice to have other people who are involved in a project and working on it. And I get energy from having coworkers, I guess is, I get energy from other people working on a project with me. So I knew I had to keep a day job and this couldn't be my full-time job until I can afford to have a team. And so until this company makes enough money to support a team, I just keep a day job, and that is my working with other people outlet. And then I can just hammer this out on my own, a couple of hours a day and that's fine. I don't think I could work by myself 40 to 60 hours a week without other people around who are also excited about it.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eFelix: \u003c/strong\u003eThat's interesting. So let's say there's a scenario where you are making enough money where you could replace your day job with the income that you're paying yourself from the business. But you'd have to work on it yourself. You would rather hire people to take your place,\u0026nbsp;and hire people to help continue building and maintain the business while you keep your day job?\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eMel: \u003c/strong\u003eYeah. Hands down. That's why I hired PR.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eFelix: \u003c/strong\u003eOh, that makes sense. I guess you've done that already. Okay, that makes sense. So when you are hiring help, I'm assuming you're hiring people to help you with things that you don't enjoy doing.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eMel: \u003c/strong\u003eYeah. Which is silly because probably the easiest hire to make would be someone to package and ship the swimsuits. But that is one of the most gratifying parts of this is putting a physical product in an envelope and sending it to someone. Because so much of my work is not tangible and never has been. So I love that part and I should probably just hire someone to do it, but it's so enjoyable for me.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eFelix: \u003c/strong\u003eI feel like it's fueling you. It's fueling you to give you the juice you need to continue running this thing. Even though again, conventional advice would run counter to that and say, \"Just spend your time on 'more value-producing activities.'\" If you are doing that and then you're burning yourself out, then the whole thing collapses anyway. So I think that's important to not give up the things that fulfill you, and fuel you, and keep you in the game. I think the reason why most people fail on this is because they give up too early, not because something catastrophic happened that's not recoverable from. You're usually giving up first, you know?\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eFelix: \u003c/strong\u003eSo I think it's important that you hold onto that. And I think that you recognize that and I think it's important advice that you're giving here, which is to hold onto the things that fulfill you and keep you in the game. So I think that you're totally doing the right thing for your situation.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eFelix: \u003c/strong\u003eSo you also mentioned that certain skills like emotional intelligence and empathy are just as useful as knowing how to market and how to write good copy, how to organize inventory. So say more about this because this is something new that I haven't heard yet on this podcast, about intelligence and empathy. I feel like I'm a robot asking you, but what is to your emotional intelligence and empathy?\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eMel: \u003c/strong\u003eFor me, it was what allowed me to answer customer service emails and do marketing in a way that I don't sound like a robot or I don't just sound like a copy of generic ad copy that's everywhere. So I think first startups where you're going to be doing a lot of stuff on your own in the beginning, you have to have a little heart and you have to be a little vulnerable.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eMel: \u003c/strong\u003eI'm a huge fan of Brene Brown, the Daring Greatly book about vulnerability and shame. And so, especially being in a business like swimsuits where it is a vulnerable thing to be in a swimsuit. And there's a lot of body shame around it in the world. So I just knew from the get go I was going to have to be very comfortable with this touchy section of the market. And especially trying to be oriented towards an LGBTQ audience and a plus size audience. Again, talk about vulnerability and shame. And I've been in both of those audiences myself. I have to be comfortable talking to other people about these sometimes uncomfortable parts of ourselves and be able to do it authentically and recognize their humanity. Otherwise, what am I doing?\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eFelix: \u003c/strong\u003eYeah. Is it learnable? Vulnerability, emotional intelligence, empathy. Can you learn these skills?\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eMel: \u003c/strong\u003eI think so. Absolutely. I've also been in years of therapy, and I think that that helped me develop more emotional intelligence and develop more ability to be real and authentic with other people because I wasn't scared and hiding.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eMel: \u003c/strong\u003eThe hardest part about being an entrepreneur is just putting myself out there and not taking rejection personally because it's my job to keep an eye on the content, or the comments section. And to read all the customer service emails. And I couldn't be defensive, which is my absolutely natural go-to.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eFelix: \u003c/strong\u003eMost people.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eMel: \u003c/strong\u003eYeah, and I'm especially so. If I get embarrassed, I get angry. It's not a good look as my wife has helped me learn. So I knew that I needed to have those skills to run this particular business. There might be businesses that you can run where you don't have to have those things. But for me, they're absolutely necessary for the people I'm interacting with on a daily basis.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eFelix: \u003c/strong\u003eYeah. I think authenticity and being able to be vulnerable is valuable in this day and age where it's so easy to be behind a mask. And I think it's so easy to slip back into your defenses and put on some mask that's not your true self. So when you are thinking about what you're doing when you're building your brand, when you're communicating with customers, are there certain things that you try to look for? I guess when you're looking at yourself, maybe introspectively to make sure that you are truly being yourself or truly being authentic and truly being vulnerable. And are there things that you look at like, \"I'm proud of myself because I've done X, Y, Z today\"?\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eMel: \u003c/strong\u003eYeah. I think if I'm understanding it correctly, it's like how do I check myself to make sure that I'm not being-\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eFelix: \u003c/strong\u003eYeah, exactly.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eMel: \u003c/strong\u003eJust time. Again, going slow. I'm giving myself room and space to figure it out. Customer service emails, I'm not real timely. I usually see them right when they come in, but I don't answer them right away. Good or bad because I know I need a day or two to digest. And just giving myself that space and time, not just frantically responding to everything in the minute. Our Facebook page will never have that badge of responds in 30 seconds. Because I need time. I'm a slow digester of emotions, both other people's in my owns and that's just who I am. Again, if you have time, go to years of therapy, that was really helpful.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eMel: \u003c/strong\u003eBut in the short term, for me when I write copy or I think about putting something out in the world. I think how would my best friend take this? How would my wife take this? How would someone I care about read this and take this? Because that's my audience is people I care about. So even if a customer, I've never met them before. If I'm thinking about my best friend or something when I'm writing copy or writing a social media post, I hope that it would mean something to them because I'm being my real 'self.'\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eFelix: \u003c/strong\u003eGot it. That makes sense. So thank you so much for your time Mel. So Beefcake Swimwear, which is at beefcakeswimwear.com is the website. I'll leave you with this final question. What was the biggest lesson that you learned last year that you want to definitely make sure you apply in this year?\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u0026nbsp;\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eMel: \u003c/strong\u003eI'd say trust your gut. Whether it's how to answer someone in an email or what style of swimsuit I wanted to do next, or if I had a bad gut feeling about something that I didn't do. And thank God in hindsight. Just trust your gut and give yourself, again that time and space to listen to yourself. I just don't think that there's anything wrong with, in a world that is super frenetic and super anxious, and super fast, with carving out time to go slow and be thoughtful about things, and to listen to people, and to learn, and then trust your gut.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eFelix: \u003c/strong\u003eI love it. I think that's something that I've been learning too, which is that answers are not always available. The answers that you're asking, questions that you're asking yourself, you don't have the answers always available, right when you ask it, right? It takes time to almost like let it bubble up. It's kind of weird to say, but it's like sometimes we look at ourselves, we feel like we can ask ourselves any question. We know ourselves, why don't we know the answer right away? But I think it's important that like you say, you pause. And I think that's the biggest benefit that I'm hearing from your experience, which is that by taking the time to pause, by going in a slower pace, you let the answers come out. You maybe make less decisions, but they seem to be more decisions that are aligned with the lifestyle that you want to create. And I think that I appreciate you coming on and sharing that because I think it's a different path that is not typically talked about.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eFelix: \u003c/strong\u003eSo again, really appreciate you coming on Mel. Good luck with everything. And again, beefcakeswimwear.com is the website. Thank you so much for your time.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eMel: \u003c/strong\u003eYeah. Thank you so much for having me. It's been a pleasure.\u003c/p\u003e\u003cdiv id=\":R0:\" data-component-name=\"blog-read-more\" class=\"marketing-block marketing-block--light marketing-block--padded text-body-sm text-left my-8 tablet:my-16 p-8 bg-marketingBg border-t-2 [\u0026amp;_h2]:text-t5 border-blog-highlight\"\u003e\u003ch2 class=\"!mt-0 mb-6 font-aktivgroteskextended\"\u003eRead more\u003c/h2\u003e\u003cul class=\"!mt-0 !mb-0\"\u003e\u003cli class=\"mt-2\"\u003e\u003ca href=\"/ca/blog/206934729-how-to-start-a-clothing-line\"\u003eHow to Start a Clothing Line in 12 Steps (2024)\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\u003cli class=\"mt-2\"\u003e\u003ca href=\"/ca/blog/niche-markets\"\u003eStart Selling in a Niche Market Today: 9 Examples\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\u003cli class=\"mt-2\"\u003e\u003ca href=\"/ca/blog/back-to-school\"\u003e4 Merchants Share Their Back to School Strategies\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\u003cli class=\"mt-2\"\u003e\u003ca href=\"/ca/blog/overdraft-kaikini-financial-struggle\"\u003eOverdraft- What Happened When KaiKini’s Debt Quadrupled\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\u003cli class=\"mt-2\"\u003e\u003ca href=\"/ca/blog/dah-makan-vc-and-angel-funding\"\u003eCourting VC and Angel Funding to Scale a Food Startup to 40 Employees\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\u003cli class=\"mt-2\"\u003e\u003ca href=\"/ca/blog/194985545-coquette-couture-physical-store\"\u003eWhy Coquette Couture Opened a Physical Store to Grow Their Online Presence\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\u003cli class=\"mt-2\"\u003e\u003ca href=\"/ca/blog/72729989-how-persistence-got-natural-force-to-1-million-in-sales\"\u003eHow Persistence Got Natural Force to $1 Million in Sales\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\u003cli class=\"mt-2\"\u003e\u003ca href=\"/ca/blog/brumate-pivot\"\u003eWhy Pivoting Your Business is Vital\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\u003cli class=\"mt-2\"\u003e\u003ca href=\"/ca/blog/199517065-minaal-digital-nomad-business\"\u003eHow These Digital Nomads Run a 100% Remote Business\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\u003cli class=\"mt-2\"\u003e\u003ca href=\"/ca/blog/120646021-colorit-amazon-validate-product\"\u003eHow ColorIt Used Amazon as a Proving Ground to Build Its $2.5 Million Business\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/li\u003e\u003c/ul\u003e\u003c/div\u003e","latestArticles":[],"contentNavigationLinks":[],"blogHandle":"blog","settings":{"topSectionImages":[{"src":"https://cdn.shopify.com/b/shopify-brochure2-assets/b57973373cb5af3ba8e59f0b966065e7.webp?originalWidth=500\u0026originalHeight=641"},{"src":"https://cdn.shopify.com/b/shopify-brochure2-assets/05383e2e9b6568812f1ccc7bbc28ac3d.webp?originalWidth=500\u0026originalHeight=641"},{"src":"https://cdn.shopify.com/b/shopify-brochure2-assets/2baeeeb3c9bab2dfbfac6428fad929e1.webp?originalWidth=500\u0026originalHeight=641"}],"images":{"guides-modal-default":"https://cdn.shopify.com/shopifycloud/brochure/assets/content-marketing/blog/guides/default-popup-small-507879111d55acdd759b202ab869ea0b8bd0f4af9f9aaa7c540efe59b8e046db.jpg","guides-modal-photography":"https://cdn.shopify.com/b/shopify-brochure2-assets/1bd4b072dc187a774c9af650d0f16d0b.jpg","guides-modal-seo":"https://cdn.shopify.com/b/shopify-brochure2-assets/63781344c2932de6e553a54b02291692.jpg","subscription":{"image":{"en":"https://cdn.shopify.com/b/shopify-brochure2-assets/c46f986d892538f4b0a15f25692330f7.png?originalWidth=1420\u0026originalHeight=1040"}},"rightColSideBannerImg":"https://cdn.shopify.com/b/shopify-brochure2-assets/c8790c0f3c1fa91ccc845e45ce067bbe.png","rightColSideBannerGetInTouchImg":"https://cdn.shopify.com/b/shopify-brochure2-assets/e2a124c9e2e7ae76119a66cfc515535b.png","articleNavigation":{"banner":{"en":"https://cdn.shopify.com/b/shopify-brochure2-assets/e570727d45209fec56c410f802faa0fe.png"}}},"subscription":{"settings":{"subscriptionId":"DE84EF61-2A02-4778-8807-F01B108DE974"}},"citation":{"high-ticket-affiliate-programs":[{"text":"Zip Recruiter - 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Use this guide to ask the right questions during the interview process to ensure you hire the right people for your store.","cta":"Get the free guide now","modal_headline":"Get our guide Interview Questions for Hiring Retail Employees delivered right to your inbox.","modal_success_heading":"Thanks for downloading. You'll receive your free download soon. In the meantime, start building your store with a free trial of Shopify."},"holiday_selling_2021":{"heading":"Free Holiday Selling Guide: Top 10 Holiday Selling Tips for Retail Stores","content":"A sale can happen anywhere, at any time. Use our top 10 strategies to unify your customer touch points and set yourself up for holiday success.","cta":"Get the free guide now","modal_headline":"Get our Top 10 Holiday Selling Tips for Retail Stores delivered right to your inbox.","modal_success_heading":"Thanks for downloading. You'll receive your free download soon. In the meantime, start building your store with a free trial of Shopify."},"international_shipping":{"heading":"Free International Shipping Checklist","content":"Expand your business globally with confidence. This free checklist ensures you have everything in place for smooth and compliant shipments.","cta":"Download now","modal_headline":"Get the checklist delivered right to your inbox.","modal_success_heading":"Thanks for downloading. You'll receive your free checklist soon. In the meantime, start building your store with a free trial of Shopify."},"inventory_templates":{"heading":"5 Free Templates to Better Understand Your Inventory","content":"Calculate your businesses cost of goods sold, sell through rate, inventory turnover, saftey stock, economic order quantity, or reorder point with ease using these custom templates. (No math required!)","cta":"Get your free templates","modal_headline":"Get your Inventory Templates delivered right to your inbox.","modal_success_heading":"Thanks for downloading. You'll receive your free templates soon. In the meantime, start building your store with a free trial of Shopify."},"keyword_research_template":{"heading":"Free keyword research template","content":"Use this free keyword research template to unlock opportunities and manage your SEO strategy. Drive targeted traffic to your website by tracking search volume, ranking difficulty, user intent, and content ideas.","cta":"Download template","modal_headline":"Get the template delivered right to your inbox."},"marketing_plan":{"heading":"Free Marketing Plan Template","content":"Create a detailed marketing plan that gets results. Our template helps you design strategies and actions to effectively reach your audience.","cta":"Download template","modal_headline":"Get your marketing plan template delivered right to your inbox.","modal_success_heading":"Thanks for downloading. You'll receive your free templates soon. In the meantime, start building your store with a free trial of Shopify."},"marketing_proposal":{"heading":"Free Marketing Proposal Template","content":"Impress with a professional marketing proposal. This free template provides a clear structure and essential elements to help you create compelling proposals.","cta":"Download template","modal_headline":"Get your template delivered right to your inbox.","modal_success_heading":"Thanks for downloading. You'll receive your free template soon. In the meantime, start building your store with a free trial of Shopify."},"okr_template":{"heading":"Free OKR Template","content":"Align your team and boost performance. This simple template helps you set clear objectives and track key results for measurable success.","cta":"Get the template now","modal_headline":"Get your template delivered right to your inbox.","modal_success_heading":"Thanks for downloading. You'll receive your free template soon. In the meantime, start building your store with a free trial of Shopify."},"one_pager":{"heading":"Free One Pager Template","content":"Present your ideas clearly and concisely. This template helps you summarize your key points perfectly.","cta":"Get the template now","modal_headline":"Get your template delivered right to your inbox.","modal_success_heading":"Thanks for downloading. You'll receive your free template soon. In the meantime, start building your store with a free trial of Shopify."},"opening_closing_checklist":{"heading":"Free Checklist for Opening and Closing Your Store","content":"Ensure all protocols and procedures are completed each time you open and close your store with this handy, easy-to-follow checklist.","cta":"Get the free checklist","modal_headline":"Get our Opening and Closing Checklist delivered right to your inbox.","modal_success_heading":"Thanks for downloading. You'll receive your free download soon. In the meantime, start building your store with a free trial of Shopify."},"optimization":{"heading":"Free Reading List: Conversion Optimization for Beginners","content":"Turn more website visitors into customers by getting a crash course in conversion optimization. Access our free, curated list of high-impact articles below.","cta":"Get the free reading list","modal_headline":"Get our Conversion Optimization reading list delivered right to your inbox."},"packaging_calculator":{"heading":"Calculate your packaging costs","content":"Use this free calculator to estimate your packaging expenses. Get insights into labor, materials, and design costs to make informed decisions for your business.","cta":"Download calculator","modal_headline":"Get the calculator delivered right to your inbox."},"packing_slip":{"heading":"Free Packing Slip Template","content":"Save time and effort by ensuring proper delivery of your products. Our free packing slip template helps you get started.","cta":"Get the template now","modal_headline":"Get the packing slip template delivered right to your inbox."},"parentpreneur":{"heading":"Playbook for the Aspiring Parentpreneur","content":"Unleash your creativity and turn your passion into a thriving business with our Parentprenuer brainstorming guide. Discover new ideas, set realistic goals, and map out a plan for success.","cta":"Download now","modal_headline":"Check your inbox for your copy of the Parentpreneur Playbook."},"persona_template":{"heading":"Free User Persona Template","content":"Maximize your product’s potential. Unlock insights to fine-tune your offerings and impress users. Our template makes it easy.","cta":"Download template","modal_headline":"Get our template delivered right to your inbox.","modal_success_heading":"Thanks for downloading. You'll receive your free download soon. In the meantime, start building your store with a free trial of Shopify."},"phonecases":{"heading":"Get a Free Phone Case Business in a Box","content":"Free high quality phone case stock photos and a list of some places you can look to find phone case suppliers to work with.","cta":"Download startup bundle","modal_headline":"Get our startup bundle delivered right to your inbox."},"photobrief":{"heading":"Get perfect product photography","content":"This free template will help you write detailed, professional creative briefs that help photographers know exactly what you're looking for.","cta":"Download template","modal_headline":"Get the template delivered right to your inbox."},"photochecklist":{"heading":"All the images your store needs","content":"This free photo shot list helps you plan every image for your online store, from homepage banners to product cards.","cta":"Download shot list","modal_headline":"Get the shot list delivered right to your inbox."},"photographer_checklist":{"heading":"Make your next photo shoot a success","content":"Use this free checklist to help you hire the perfect photographer for your product photos—complete with budget tips and outreach email templates.","cta":"Download checklist","modal_headline":"Get the checklist delivered right to your inbox."},"photography":{"heading":"Free Guide: DIY Product Photography","content":"Learn how to take beautiful product photos on a budget with our free, comprehensive video guide.","cta":"Get your free guide","modal_headline":"Get our DIY Guide to Beautiful Product Photography delivered right to your inbox."},"popup_guide":{"heading":"Pop-Up Shop Quickstart Guide","content":"Thinking about hosting a Pop-Up Shop? This free guide includes 3 checklists that help frame what you're looking to accomplish through your Pop-Up Shop, different types of Pop-Up Shops, and design ideas to help get you started.","cta":"Get your free guide","modal_headline":"Get your Pop-Up Shop Quickstart Guide delivered right to your inbox.","modal_success_heading":"Thanks for downloading. You'll receive your free download soon. In the meantime, start building your store with a free trial of Shopify."},"pp_template":{"heading":"Free PowerPoint Template","content":"Capture attention with business presentations that pop! Our customizable template makes it easy to showcase your ideas clearly.","cta":"Download template","modal_headline":"Get the template delivered right to your inbox.","modal_success_heading":"Thanks for downloading. You'll receive your free download soon. In the meantime, start building your store with a free trial of Shopify."},"press_kit":{"heading":"Free Press Kit Template","content":"Get your business the spotlight it deserves. Our all-in-one template makes it a breeze for journalists and media to share your story.","cta":"Download template","modal_headline":"Get the template delivered right to your inbox.","modal_success_heading":"Thanks for downloading. You'll receive your free download soon. In the meantime, start building your store with a free trial of Shopify."},"pressrelease":{"heading":"Free: Press Release Template","content":"To help you get started, we put together this template to help you structure your story using a common press release format. You can replace each component with your own information and adapt it according to your needs.","cta":"Get the template now","modal_headline":"Get the press release template delivered right to your inbox."},"problem_statement":{"heading":"Free Problem Statement Template","content":"See your challenges clearly. This simple template helps you create powerful problem statements that lead to meaningful solutions.","cta":"Get the template now","modal_headline":"Get the template delivered right to your inbox.","modal_success_heading":"Thanks for downloading. You'll receive your free download soon. In the meantime, start building your store with a free trial of Shopify."},"process_map":{"heading":"Free Process Mapping Template","content":"Simplify your operations with a clear picture of your processes. This template helps you outline and improve workflows for more productivity.","cta":"Get the template now","modal_headline":"Get the template delivered right to your inbox.","modal_success_heading":"Thanks for downloading. You'll receive your free download soon. In the meantime, start building your store with a free trial of Shopify."},"productivity":{"heading":"Free Reading List: Ecommerce Motivation","content":"Having trouble focusing on growing your small business? Get access to our free, curated list of high-impact productivity articles.","cta":"Get the free reading list","modal_headline":"Get our Ecommerce Motivation reading list delivered right to your inbox."},"products":{"heading":"Free Guide: How to Find a Profitable Product to Sell Online","content":"Excited about starting a business, but not sure where to start? This free, comprehensive guide will teach you how to find great, newly trending products with high sales potential.","cta":"Get the free guide","modal_headline":"Get How To Find A Product To Sell Online: The Definitive Guide PDF delivered right to your inbox."},"product_vision":{"heading":"Free Product Vision Template","content":"Developing a new product? This free template will help give you a clear picture of your product’s future, by defining effective goals and strategies.","cta":"Get the template now","modal_headline":"Get the template delivered right to your inbox.","modal_success_heading":"Thanks for downloading. You'll receive your free download soon. In the meantime, start building your store with a free trial of Shopify."},"profit_loss":{"heading":"Free Profit and Loss Statement Template","content":"Need help keeping an eye on your business's financial performance? Our free, user-friendly template will help you make informed decisions with ease.","cta":"Get the template now","modal_headline":"Thanks for downloading. You'll receive your free download soon. In the meantime, start building your store with a free trial of Shopify."},"purchase_order":{"heading":"Create a purchase order","content":"Use this free template to create clear, detailed purchase orders for your business. Keep all your information organized and easy to understand.","cta":"Download template","modal_headline":"Get the template delivered right to your inbox."},"retail_marketing":{"heading":"Free Download: From Clicks to Customers: How to Measure Your Retail Store's Marketing Success","content":"Every marketing campaign is an investment of your time, energy, and money. Do you ever wonder if your efforts were worth it? Read this guide and build a framework to plan, track, and measure the success of retail marketing campaigns.","cta":"Get your free guide","modal_headline":"Get your free Retail Marketing Success PDF delivered right to your inbox.","modal_success_heading":"Thanks for downloading. You'll receive your free download soon. In the meantime, start building your store with a free trial of Shopify."},"retention_audit":{"heading":"Free Download: Retention Audit Checklist","content":"Struggling with customer retention? This free checklist will help you build a retention mindset throughout your company by auditing retention strategies at every level of your business.","cta":"Get your free checklist","modal_headline":"Get this free Retention Audit Checklist PDF delivered right to your inbox.","modal_success_heading":"Thanks for downloading. You'll receive your free download soon. In the meantime, start building your store with a free trial of Shopify."},"rfp_template":{"heading":"Free RFP Template","content":"Make writing requests for proposals easier and faster with our free RFP template.","cta":"Get the template now","modal_headline":"Get the RFP template delivered right to your inbox."},"root_cause":{"heading":"Free Root Cause Analysis Template","content":"Get to the heart of your business problems and find effective solutions. This template helps you find and address the underlying causes.","cta":"Get the template now","modal_headline":"Get this free template delivered right to your inbox.","modal_success_heading":"Thanks for downloading. You'll receive your free download soon. In the meantime, start building your store with a free trial of Shopify."},"rotating_schedules":{"heading":"Free Download: Rotating Schedules Templates","content":"Struggling to keep your stores fully staffed and running smoothly? Consider implementing a rotating shift program. Download these free templates to find the right schedule for you and your employees.","cta":"Get your free templates","modal_headline":"Get these free Rotating Schedules Templates delivered right to your inbox.","modal_success_heading":"Thanks for downloading. You'll receive your free download soon. In the meantime, start building your store with a free trial of Shopify."},"sales_email":{"heading":"Free Sales Email Templates","content":"Craft compelling emails that convert! Our customizable templates help you engage prospects and close deals.","cta":"Get your free templates","modal_headline":"Get these free templates delivered right to your inbox.","modal_success_heading":"Thanks for downloading. You'll receive your free download soon. In the meantime, start building your store with a free trial of Shopify."},"sales_funnel_template":{"heading":"Free Sales Funnel Template","content":"Make your sales process smoother and close deals faster. Our template maps out each stage, so you never miss an opportunity.","cta":"Download template","modal_headline":"Get this free sales funnel template delivered right to your inbox.","modal_success_heading":"Thanks for downloading. You'll receive your free download soon. In the meantime, start building your store with a free trial of Shopify."},"sales_plan_template":{"heading":"Free Sales Planning Template","content":"Supercharge your sales strategy with our all-in-one planning tool. Set your targets, track your progress, and reach your goals with confidence and ease.","cta":"Get the template now","modal_headline":"Get this free sales planning template delivered right to your inbox.","modal_success_heading":"Thanks for downloading. You'll receive your free download soon. In the meantime, start building your store with a free trial of Shopify."},"scope_template":{"heading":"Free Scope of Work Template","content":"Set clear expectations and ensure project success. This template provides a simple outline to help you define project deliverables and run programs smoothly.","cta":"Get the template now","modal_headline":"Get this free template delivered right to your inbox.","modal_success_heading":"Thanks for downloading. You'll receive your free download soon. In the meantime, start building your store with a free trial of Shopify."},"seo":{"heading":"Free Download: SEO Checklist","content":"Want to rank higher in search results? Get access to our free, checklist on search engine optimization.","cta":"Get the free checklist","modal_headline":"Get our SEO Checklist delivered right to your inbox."},"services_price":{"heading":"Your Time is Valuable, so Price it Right","content":"Ensure your business is profitable with this easy-to-use pricing calculator. This free tool helps you find the right pricing strategy for your services, so you can maximize your time and your earnings.","cta":"Download calculator","modal_headline":"Get this calculator delivered right to your inbox.","modal_success_heading":"Thanks for downloading. You'll receive your free copy soon. In the meantime, start building your store with a free trial of Shopify."},"sfn_interview":{"heading":"Free Checklist: How to Interview a Third Party Logistics Provider","content":"Outsourcing fulfillment is a significant investment. Here’s a checklist of questions to ask in preparation of choosing the right fulfillment provider and transitioning your business.","cta":"Get the free checklist","modal_headline":"Get the checklist delivered right to your inbox."},"sfn_outsource":{"heading":"Free Checklist: Are You Ready to Outsource Your Fulfillment?","content":"Trusting a third party logistics (3PL) provider with your inventory and your customer experience is a significant investment. These questions will help determine if it's time to outsource your fulfillment and take the next step in growing your business.","cta":"Get the free checklist","modal_headline":"Get the checklist delivered right to your inbox."},"shipping":{"heading":"The Shopify guide to shipping and fulfillment","content":"Boost customer satisfaction while driving sales growth for your ecommerce business with an effective shipping and fulfillment strategy. 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In the meantime, start building your store with a free trial of Shopify."},"social":{"heading":"Social media strategy and planning templates","content":"Ready to get started with your social media strategy? These free, customizable templates give you tools to plan and execute a strategy that connects you with your target audience while keeping your content calendar organized.","cta":"Download now and start seeing results","modal_headline":"Get your social media strategy and planning templates delivered right to your inbox.","modal_success_heading":"Thanks for downloading. You'll receive your free copy soon. In the meantime, start building your store with a free trial of Shopify."},"social_media_kit":{"heading":"Free Social Media Toolkit","content":"Boost your engagement and grow your audience with this free toolkit. Get templates, best practices, and tips to help you create compelling content that engages and converts.","cta":"Download now","modal_headline":"Get your social media strategy toolkit delivered right to your inbox.","modal_success_heading":"Thanks for downloading. You'll receive your toolkit copy soon. In the meantime, start building your store with a free trial of Shopify."},"social_template":{"heading":"Social media strategy and planning templates","content":"Ready to get started with your social media strategy? These free, customizable templates give you tools to plan and execute a strategy that connects you with your target audience while keeping your content calendar organized.","cta":"Download now and start seeing results","modal_headline":"Get social media strategy and planning templates delivered right to your inbox.","modal_success_heading":"Thanks for downloading. You'll receive your free download soon. In the meantime, start building your store with a free trial of Shopify."},"sop_template":{"heading":"Free SOP Template","content":"Turn your tangle of tasks into simple steps anyone can follow. Our user-friendly template makes it a breeze.","cta":"Download template","modal_headline":"Get our template delivered right to your inbox.","modal_success_heading":"Thanks for downloading. You'll receive your free download soon. In the meantime, start building your store with a free trial of Shopify."},"store_layouts":{"heading":"Free Download: Store Layout Templates","content":"Trying to decide which layout is right for your store? Download these free templates to learn which types of layouts work best for different industries and draw inspiration for your own design.","cta":"Get your free templates","modal_headline":"Get these free templates delivered right to your inbox.","modal_success_heading":"Thanks for downloading. You'll receive your free download soon. In the meantime, start building your store with a free trial of Shopify."},"swot":{"heading":"Free: SWOT Analysis Template","content":"Get your free SWOT Analysis Template. Use this free PDF to future-proof your business by identifying your strengths, weaknesses, opportunities, and threats.","cta":"Get the template now","modal_headline":"Get the SWOT analysis template delivered right to your inbox."},"tax_season":{"heading":"Free Download: 6 Steps to Get Your Business Ready for Tax Season","content":"Tax season is stressful for any business owner. This guide will go through the process of filing income taxes in America and provide you with checklists to keep you organized and prepared.","cta":"Get your free guide now","modal_headline":"Get your free guide","modal_success_heading":"Thanks for downloading. You'll receive your free copy soon. In the meantime, start building your store with a free trial of Shopify."},"trust":{"heading":"Free: Shopify Store Trust Checklist","content":"Shopify’s research team conducted a series of in-depth interviews with North American shoppers to learn how customer trust is formed in online stores. This checklist is a summary of their findings, created to help business owners understand what essential aspects of their online store experience creates trust among customers, along with the trust-busting mistakes to avoid.","cta":"Get the checklist now","modal_headline":"Get the checklist delivered right to your inbox."},"tshirt_guide":{"heading":"Your Complete Guide To Starting a T-Shirt Business","content":"Turn your passion for fashion into a thriving business. This free comprehensive guide walks you through each step of launching your own T-shirt business, from design to sales.","cta":"Download now","modal_headline":"Get the guide delivered right to your inbox.","modal_success_heading":"Thanks for downloading. You'll receive your free copy soon. In the meantime, start building your store with a free trial of Shopify."},"ttp_guide":{"heading":"Free Download: The Online Sellers Guide to In-Person Sales","content":"In-person selling is more approachable than ever. This guide covers why selling in person can reduce customer acquisition costs, how to build a plan that will scale with your business, and tactics from ecommerce sellers that made the move successfully.","cta":"Get your free guide now","modal_headline":"Get your free guide","modal_success_heading":"Thanks for downloading. You'll receive your free copy soon. In the meantime, start building your store with a free trial of Shopify."},"twitter":{"heading":"Free Ebook: Twitter Marketing for Small Businesses","content":"This guide will teach you everything from earning your first followers to getting the most out of Twitter’s advertising platform. Claim your free download to get instant access.","cta":"Get the free ebook now","modal_headline":"Get Twitter Marketing for Small Businesses delivered right to your inbox."},"use_case_template":{"heading":"Free Use Case Template","content":"Do your products hold hidden value? Use this free template to spot new sales opportunities.","cta":"Download template","modal_headline":"Get our template delivered right to your inbox.","modal_success_heading":"Thanks for downloading. You'll receive your free download soon. In the meantime, start building your store with a free trial of Shopify."},"value_chain":{"heading":"Free Value Chain Template","content":"Explore your business activities and discover new ways to lower costs and improve quality. This template helps you analyze each step for better performance.","cta":"Get the template now","modal_headline":"Get our template delivered right to your inbox.","modal_success_heading":"Thanks for downloading. You'll receive your free download soon. In the meantime, start building your store with a free trial of Shopify."},"value_prop_template":{"heading":"Free Value Proposition Template","content":"Share what makes your brand stand out. Convince customers to consider, click, and buy. Our template makes it easy.","cta":"Download template","modal_headline":"Get the template delivered right to your inbox.","modal_success_heading":"Thanks for downloading. You'll receive your free download soon. In the meantime, start building your store with a free trial of Shopify."},"video":{"heading":"Free Reading List: Video Marketing Tips and Tricks","content":"Video marketing is a powerful tool you can’t afford to ignore. Get a crash course with our free, curated list of high-impact articles.","cta":"Get the free reading list","modal_headline":"Get the reading list delivered right to your inbox."},"white_paper_template":{"heading":"Free White Paper Template","content":"Share your experience and establish your authority. This template offers a framework for creating compelling, trustworthy white papers.","cta":"Get the template now","modal_headline":"Get the template delivered right to your inbox.","modal_success_heading":"Thanks for downloading. You'll receive your free download soon. 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