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text-align:right;"><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2010_August_13" title="Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2010 August 13">August 13</a> > </th></tr></tbody></table> </div> <meta property="mw:PageProp/toc"/> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading3"><h3 id="August_12" data-mw-thread-id="h-August_12-2010-07-17T22:59:00.000Z">August 12</h3>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2010_August_12&action=edit&section=1" title="Edit section: August 12">edit</a>]</div> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading4"><h4 id="Category:Songs_with_music_by" data-mw-thread-id="h-Category:Songs_with_music_by-August_12-2010-08-13T00:03:00.000Z">Category:Songs with music by</h4>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2010_August_12&action=edit&section=2" title="Edit section: Category:Songs with music by">edit</a>]</div> <div class="boilerplate vfd" style="background:#bff9fc; margin:0 auto; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #AAAAAA;"> <dl><dd>The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Deletion_review" title="Wikipedia:Deletion review">deletion review</a>). No further edits should be made to this section.</dd></dl> <dl><dd>The result of the discussion was: no consensus.--<a href="/wiki/User:Mike_Selinker" title="User:Mike Selinker">Mike Selinker</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Mike_Selinker" title="User talk:Mike Selinker">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2010_August_12#c-Mike_Selinker-2010-08-25T05:32:00.000Z-Category:Songs_with_music_by" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">05:32, 25 August 2010 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd> <dd>Propose renaming <ul><li><a href="/wiki/Category:Songs_with_music_by_Kenny_Dorham" title="Category:Songs with music by Kenny Dorham">Category:Songs with music by Kenny Dorham</a> to <a href="/w/index.php?title=Category:Compositions_by_Kenny_Dorham&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category:Compositions by Kenny Dorham (page does not exist)">Category:Compositions by Kenny Dorham</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Category:Songs_with_music_by_Kenny_Burrell" title="Category:Songs with music by Kenny Burrell">Category:Songs with music by Kenny Burrell</a> to <a href="/w/index.php?title=Category:Compositions_by_Kenny_Burrell&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category:Compositions by Kenny Burrell (page does not exist)">Category:Compositions by Kenny Burrell</a></li></ul></dd> <dd>Nominator's rationale: There are two category trees for musical compositions: <a href="/wiki/Category:Songs_by_composer" title="Category:Songs by composer">songs by composer</a>, which consists of <a href="/wiki/Song" title="Song">songs</a> (ie. musical compositions with lyrics), and <a href="/wiki/Category:Compositions_by_composer" title="Category:Compositions by composer">compositions by composer</a>, which consists of all musical compositions. For example, <a href="/wiki/Miles_Davis" title="Miles Davis">Miles Davis</a> wrote instrumental music, so his music is correctly categorized under "compositions by composer" at <a href="/wiki/Category:Compositions_by_Miles_Davis" title="Category:Compositions by Miles Davis">Category:Compositions by Miles Davis</a>. Similarly <a href="/wiki/Category:Compositions_by_Charles_Mingus" title="Category:Compositions by Charles Mingus">Category:Compositions by Charles Mingus</a>, <a href="/wiki/Category:Compositions_by_John_Coltrane" title="Category:Compositions by John Coltrane">Category:Compositions by John Coltrane</a> etc. On the other hand, <a href="/wiki/George_Gershwin" title="George Gershwin">George Gershwin</a> wrote both instrumental music and songs, so his songs are in <a href="/wiki/Category:Songs_with_music_by_George_Gershwin" title="Category:Songs with music by George Gershwin">Category:Songs with music by George Gershwin</a> while his instrumental composition remain at the parent category <a href="/wiki/Category:Compositions_by_George_Gershwin" title="Category:Compositions by George Gershwin">Category:Compositions by George Gershwin</a>. A similar case is <a href="/wiki/Category:Compositions_by_Duke_Ellington" title="Category:Compositions by Duke Ellington">Category:Compositions by Duke Ellington</a>. Now, the two nominated categories are similar in that they both contain (and are likely to contain) only one composition, which in both cases is instrumental. Therefore, as I have explained before (although there was no consensus <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2010_February_4#Category:Songs_with_music_by_Kenny_Dorham" title="Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2010 February 4">last time</a>), these would be correctly categorized under "compositions by composer", not "songs by composer" as they currently are. <a href="/wiki/User:Jafeluv" title="User:Jafeluv">Jafeluv</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Jafeluv" title="User talk:Jafeluv">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2010_August_12#c-Jafeluv-2010-08-13T00:03:00.000Z-Category:Songs_with_music_by" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:03, 13 August 2010 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl> <ul><li>Suggest that all should be renamed to the form "Songs composed by ...". The counterpart for the lyricist should be "songs written by ...". A head note should make the scope of the category plain. <a href="/wiki/User:Peterkingiron" title="User:Peterkingiron">Peterkingiron</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Peterkingiron" title="User talk:Peterkingiron">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2010_August_12#c-Peterkingiron-2010-08-13T22:44:00.000Z-Category:Songs_with_music_by" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:44, 13 August 2010 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>That would be even more incorrect, wouldn't it? My whole point is that these compositions are not songs. <a href="/wiki/User:Jafeluv" title="User:Jafeluv">Jafeluv</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Jafeluv" title="User talk:Jafeluv">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2010_August_12#c-Jafeluv-2010-08-14T14:45:00.000Z-Peterkingiron-2010-08-13T22:44:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">14:45, 14 August 2010 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></li> <li>Oppose. "Songs" is intuitive, and far more preferable to having 2 categories, as in the case of Duke Ellington and Frank Zappa, especially in the case of Zappa who didn't co-write with a lyricist. Plus should we create a separate category for every songwriter that just happens to put out an instrumental piece of music? What a massive amount of category duplication just because a musical compostion is not a song. A hatnote would suffice when appropriate. <a href="/wiki/User:Richhoncho" title="User:Richhoncho">Richhoncho</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Richhoncho" title="User talk:Richhoncho">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2010_August_12#c-Richhoncho-2010-08-23T12:40:00.000Z-Category:Songs_with_music_by" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">12:40, 23 August 2010 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li></ul> <hr/> <dl><dd>The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Deletion_review" title="Wikipedia:Deletion review">deletion review</a>). No further edits should be made to this section.</dd></dl></div> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading4"><h4 id="Category:Films_distributed_by_Madman_Films" data-mw-thread-id="h-Category:Films_distributed_by_Madman_Films-August_12-2010-08-12T22:26:00.000Z">Category:Films distributed by Madman Films</h4>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2010_August_12&action=edit&section=3" title="Edit section: Category:Films distributed by Madman Films">edit</a>]</div> <div class="boilerplate vfd" style="background:#bff9fc; margin:0 auto; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #AAAAAA;"> <dl><dd>The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Deletion_review" title="Wikipedia:Deletion review">deletion review</a>). No further edits should be made to this section.</dd></dl> <dl><dd>The result of the discussion was: delete all. <a href="/wiki/User:Good_Olfactory" title="User:Good Olfactory">Good Ol’factory</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Good_Olfactory" title="User talk:Good Olfactory">(talk)</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2010_August_12#c-Good_Olfactory-2010-08-23T11:35:00.000Z-Category:Films_distributed_by_Madman_Films" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">11:35, 23 August 2010 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd> <dd><a href="/w/index.php?title=Category:Films_distributed_by_Madman_Films&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category:Films distributed by Madman Films (page does not exist)">Category:Films distributed by Madman Films</a> (<a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Category:Films_distributed_by_Madman_Films&action=edit">edit</a> | <a href="/w/index.php?title=Category_talk:Films_distributed_by_Madman_Films&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category talk:Films distributed by Madman Films (page does not exist)">talk</a> | <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Category:Films_distributed_by_Madman_Films&action=history">history</a> | <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Whatlinkshere/:Category:Films_distributed_by_Madman_Films">links</a> | <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Category:Films_distributed_by_Madman_Films&action=watch">watch</a> | <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Log&page=%3ACategory%3AFilms+distributed+by+Madman+Films">logs</a>) </dd> <dd>Nominator's rationale: Self promotion .</dd> <dd>See also: <ul><li><a href="/w/index.php?title=Category:American_animated_television_series_distributed_by_Madman_Entertainment&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category:American animated television series distributed by Madman Entertainment (page does not exist)">Category:American animated television series distributed by Madman Entertainment</a></li> <li><a href="/w/index.php?title=Category:Anime_distributed_by_Madman_Entertainment&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category:Anime distributed by Madman Entertainment (page does not exist)">Category:Anime distributed by Madman Entertainment</a></li> <li><a href="/w/index.php?title=Category:Manga_distributed_by_Madman_Entertainment&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category:Manga distributed by Madman Entertainment (page does not exist)">Category:Manga distributed by Madman Entertainment</a></li> <li><a href="/w/index.php?title=Category:Manhwa_distributed_by_Madman_Entertainment&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category:Manhwa distributed by Madman Entertainment (page does not exist)">Category:Manhwa distributed by Madman Entertainment</a></li></ul></dd> <dd><a href="/wiki/User:Refudiate" title="User:Refudiate">Refudiate</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Refudiate" title="User talk:Refudiate">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2010_August_12#c-Refudiate-2010-08-12T22:26:00.000Z-Category:Films_distributed_by_Madman_Films" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:26, 12 August 2010 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl> <ul><li>Comment I'm leaning towards delete all, and this would also mean the eponymous main category would not be needed, either. I'm not seeing a Films by distributor master category, however we do also have <a href="/w/index.php?title=Category:Media_Blasters_titles&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category:Media Blasters titles (page does not exist)">Category:Media Blasters titles</a>, created by a different editor. I doubt that simply distributing a title is defining, however I'm more familiar with film distribution, much less so with manga, and so perhaps this branding is of much more importance. <a href="/wiki/User:Shawn_in_Montreal" class="mw-redirect" title="User:Shawn in Montreal">Shawn in Montreal</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Shawn_in_Montreal" class="mw-redirect" title="User talk:Shawn in Montreal">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2010_August_12#c-Shawn_in_Montreal-2010-08-17T18:30:00.000Z-Category:Films_distributed_by_Madman_Films" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:30, 17 August 2010 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li> <li>Delete all. <a href="/w/index.php?title=Category:Films_distributed_by_Madman_Films&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category:Films distributed by Madman Films (page does not exist)">Category:Films distributed by Madman Films</a> and <a href="/w/index.php?title=Category:American_animated_television_series_distributed_by_Madman_Entertainment&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category:American animated television series distributed by Madman Entertainment (page does not exist)">Category:American animated television series distributed by Madman Entertainment</a> are populated with works created by others that Madman just happened to acquire distribution rights for. Not defining in the least. As for Anime, Manga and Manhwa, if someone can convincingly make the case that this not a case of <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:OC#TRIVIAL" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:OC">WP:OC#TRIVIAL</a>, I'll reconsider. <a href="/wiki/User:Shawn_in_Montreal" class="mw-redirect" title="User:Shawn in Montreal">Shawn in Montreal</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Shawn_in_Montreal" class="mw-redirect" title="User talk:Shawn in Montreal">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2010_August_12#c-Shawn_in_Montreal-2010-08-19T18:46:00.000Z-Category:Films_distributed_by_Madman_Films" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:46, 19 August 2010 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li> <li>Delete Films by distribution. - <a href="/wiki/User:Jc37" title="User:Jc37">jc37</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2010_August_12#c-Jc37-2010-08-19T21:37:00.000Z-Category:Films_distributed_by_Madman_Films" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:37, 19 August 2010 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li></ul> <hr/> <dl><dd>The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Deletion_review" title="Wikipedia:Deletion review">deletion review</a>). No further edits should be made to this section.</dd></dl></div> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading4"><h4 id="Category:People_from_Richmond,_Virginia" data-mw-thread-id="h-Category:People_from_Richmond,_Virginia-August_12-2010-08-12T21:14:00.000Z">Category:People from Richmond, Virginia</h4>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2010_August_12&action=edit&section=4" title="Edit section: Category:People from Richmond, Virginia">edit</a>]</div> <div class="boilerplate vfd" style="background:#bff9fc; margin:0 auto; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #AAAAAA;"> <dl><dd>The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Deletion_review" title="Wikipedia:Deletion review">deletion review</a>). No further edits should be made to this section.</dd></dl> <dl><dd>The result of the discussion was: keep and purge. This category should be for people from Richmond, and no one else. A Greater Richmond category is also welcome, for people from the Richmond area.--<a href="/wiki/User:Mike_Selinker" title="User:Mike Selinker">Mike Selinker</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Mike_Selinker" title="User talk:Mike Selinker">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2010_August_12#c-Mike_Selinker-2010-08-25T05:30:00.000Z-Category:People_from_Richmond,_Virginia" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">05:30, 25 August 2010 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl> <dl><dd>Propose renaming <a href="/wiki/Category:People_from_Richmond,_Virginia" title="Category:People from Richmond, Virginia">Category:People from Richmond, Virginia</a> to <a href="/wiki/Category:People_from_the_Greater_Richmond_Region" title="Category:People from the Greater Richmond Region">Category:People from the Greater Richmond Region</a></dd> <dd>Nominator's rationale: Rename. The description given on this page explains that people listed are not just from the city of Richmond, but the Greater Richmond Region. (If this nomination succeeds, the parent category for this category will need to be changed to from <a href="/wiki/Category:Richmond,_Virginia" title="Category:Richmond, Virginia">Category:Richmond, Virginia</a> to <a href="/wiki/Category:Greater_Richmond_Region" title="Category:Greater Richmond Region">Category:Greater Richmond Region</a>.) <a href="/wiki/User:Mayumashu" title="User:Mayumashu">Mayumashu</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Mayumashu" title="User talk:Mayumashu">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2010_August_12#c-Mayumashu-2010-08-12T21:14:00.000Z-Category:People_from_Richmond,_Virginia" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:14, 12 August 2010 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl> <ul><li>Oppose. A quick look through a couple dozen category members found that each of them was associated with the City of Richmond, not the surrounding area. Clean up the description and categorization to limit the category to the city. No objection to creating <a href="/wiki/Category:People_from_the_Greater_Richmond_Region" title="Category:People from the Greater Richmond Region">Category:People from the Greater Richmond Region</a> as a parent category. - <a href="/wiki/User:EurekaLott" title="User:EurekaLott">Eureka Lott</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2010_August_12#c-EurekaLott-2010-08-19T20:59:00.000Z-Category:People_from_Richmond,_Virginia" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:59, 19 August 2010 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li> <li>Oppose. This should be kept as is; people who are physically from inside the city limits of Richmond belong here, while people who are from areas near but not in Richmond proper more correctly belong in the appropriate category for the county (or town, if one exists) that they're actually from. And we most certainly do want to keep a city-level category for Richmond itself rather than smushing everything into a onesie for the entire metropolitan area. <a href="/wiki/User:Bearcat" title="User:Bearcat">Bearcat</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Bearcat" title="User talk:Bearcat">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2010_August_12#c-Bearcat-2010-08-22T05:30:00.000Z-Category:People_from_Richmond,_Virginia" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">05:30, 22 August 2010 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li></ul> <hr/> <dl><dd>The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Deletion_review" title="Wikipedia:Deletion review">deletion review</a>). No further edits should be made to this section.</dd></dl></div> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading4"><h4 id="Category:Equatorial_Guinea_national_football_teams" data-mw-thread-id="h-Category:Equatorial_Guinea_national_football_teams-August_12-2010-08-12T20:42:00.000Z">Category:Equatorial Guinea national football teams</h4>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2010_August_12&action=edit&section=5" title="Edit section: Category:Equatorial Guinea national football teams">edit</a>]</div> <div class="boilerplate vfd" style="background:#bff9fc; margin:0 auto; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #AAAAAA;"> <dl><dd>The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Deletion_review" title="Wikipedia:Deletion review">deletion review</a>). No further edits should be made to this section.</dd></dl> <dl><dd>The result of the discussion was: merge to <a href="/wiki/Category:Equatorial_Guinea_national_football_team" title="Category:Equatorial Guinea national football team">Category:Equatorial Guinea national football team</a>. Also moving <a href="/w/index.php?title=Category:Equatorial_Guinea_women%27s_national_football_teams&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category:Equatorial Guinea women's national football teams (page does not exist)">Category:Equatorial Guinea women's national football teams</a> to <a href="/wiki/Category:Equatorial_Guinea_women%27s_national_football_team" title="Category:Equatorial Guinea women's national football team">Category:Equatorial Guinea women's national football team</a>.--<a href="/wiki/User:Mike_Selinker" title="User:Mike Selinker">Mike Selinker</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Mike_Selinker" title="User talk:Mike Selinker">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2010_August_12#c-Mike_Selinker-2010-08-23T14:52:00.000Z-Category:Equatorial_Guinea_national_football_teams" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">14:52, 23 August 2010 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd> <dd><a href="/w/index.php?title=Category:Equatorial_Guinea_national_football_teams&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category:Equatorial Guinea national football teams (page does not exist)">Category:Equatorial Guinea national football teams</a> (<a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Category:Equatorial_Guinea_national_football_teams&action=edit">edit</a> | <a href="/w/index.php?title=Category_talk:Equatorial_Guinea_national_football_teams&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category talk:Equatorial Guinea national football teams (page does not exist)">talk</a> | <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Category:Equatorial_Guinea_national_football_teams&action=history">history</a> | <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Whatlinkshere/:Category:Equatorial_Guinea_national_football_teams">links</a> | <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Category:Equatorial_Guinea_national_football_teams&action=watch">watch</a> | <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Log&page=%3ACategory%3AEquatorial+Guinea+national+football+teams">logs</a>) </dd> <dd>Nominator's rationale: Redundant with <a href="/wiki/Category:Equatorial_Guinea_national_football_team" title="Category:Equatorial Guinea national football team">Category:Equatorial Guinea national football team</a>. <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/83.84.195.88" title="Special:Contributions/83.84.195.88">83.84.195.88</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:83.84.195.88" title="User talk:83.84.195.88">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2010_August_12#c-83.84.195.88-2010-08-12T20:42:00.000Z-Category:Equatorial_Guinea_national_football_teams" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:42, 12 August 2010 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl> <ul><li>Merge them - not sure which way. <a href="/wiki/User:Peterkingiron" title="User:Peterkingiron">Peterkingiron</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Peterkingiron" title="User talk:Peterkingiron">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2010_August_12#c-Peterkingiron-2010-08-13T22:45:00.000Z-Category:Equatorial_Guinea_national_football_teams" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:45, 13 August 2010 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <ul><li>All the subcategories of <a href="/wiki/Category:African_national_association_football_teams" title="Category:African national association football teams">Category:African national association football teams</a>, <a href="/wiki/Category:European_national_association_football_teams" title="Category:European national association football teams">Category:European national association football teams</a>, etc. use the singular. <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/83.84.195.88" title="Special:Contributions/83.84.195.88">83.84.195.88</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:83.84.195.88" title="User talk:83.84.195.88">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2010_August_12#c-83.84.195.88-2010-08-14T13:17:00.000Z-Peterkingiron-2010-08-13T22:45:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">13:17, 14 August 2010 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li></ul></li></ul> <hr/> <dl><dd>The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Deletion_review" title="Wikipedia:Deletion review">deletion review</a>). No further edits should be made to this section.</dd></dl></div> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading4"><h4 id="Category:Little_Poland" data-mw-thread-id="h-Category:Little_Poland-August_12-2010-08-12T20:19:00.000Z">Category:Little Poland</h4>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2010_August_12&action=edit&section=6" title="Edit section: Category:Little Poland">edit</a>]</div> <div class="boilerplate vfd" style="background:#bff9fc; margin:0 auto; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #AAAAAA;"> <dl><dd>The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Deletion_review" title="Wikipedia:Deletion review">deletion review</a>). No further edits should be made to this section.</dd></dl> <dl><dd>The result of the discussion was: rename. <a href="/wiki/User:Good_Olfactory" title="User:Good Olfactory">Good Ol’factory</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Good_Olfactory" title="User talk:Good Olfactory">(talk)</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2010_August_12#c-Good_Olfactory-2010-08-20T09:29:00.000Z-Category:Little_Poland" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">09:29, 20 August 2010 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd> <dd>Propose renaming <a href="/w/index.php?title=Category:Little_Poland&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category:Little Poland (page does not exist)">Category:Little Poland</a> to <a href="/wiki/Category:Lesser_Poland" title="Category:Lesser Poland">Category:Lesser Poland</a></dd> <dd>Nominator's rationale: Rename to match main article name. <a href="/wiki/User:Darwinek" title="User:Darwinek">Darwinek</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Darwinek" title="User talk:Darwinek">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2010_August_12#c-Darwinek-2010-08-12T20:19:00.000Z-Category:Little_Poland" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:19, 12 August 2010 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl> <ul><li>Rename as proposed, if not speedy rename. Uncontroversial, stable name. <a href="/wiki/User_talk:East_of_Borschov" title="User talk:East of Borschov">East of Borschov</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2010_August_12#c-East_of_Borschov-2010-08-13T11:24:00.000Z-Category:Little_Poland" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">11:24, 13 August 2010 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li></ul> <hr/> <dl><dd>The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Deletion_review" title="Wikipedia:Deletion review">deletion review</a>). No further edits should be made to this section.</dd></dl></div> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading4"><h4 id="Category:Recipients_of_the_Order_of_the_White_Elephant" data-mw-thread-id="h-Category:Recipients_of_the_Order_of_the_White_Elephant-August_12-2010-08-12T18:21:00.000Z">Category:Recipients of the Order of the White Elephant</h4>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2010_August_12&action=edit&section=7" title="Edit section: Category:Recipients of the Order of the White Elephant">edit</a>]</div> <div class="boilerplate vfd" style="background:#bff9fc; margin:0 auto; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #AAAAAA;"> <dl><dd>The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Deletion_review" title="Wikipedia:Deletion review">deletion review</a>). No further edits should be made to this section.</dd></dl> <dl><dd>The result of the discussion was: rename <a href="/w/index.php?title=Category:Recipients_of_the_Order_of_the_White_Elephant&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category:Recipients of the Order of the White Elephant (page does not exist)">Category:Recipients of the Order of the White Elephant</a> to <a href="/w/index.php?title=Category:Knights_Grand_Cross_of_the_Order_of_the_White_Elephant&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category:Knights Grand Cross of the Order of the White Elephant (page does not exist)">Category:Knights Grand Cross of the Order of the White Elephant</a>. I will leave it to <a href="/wiki/User:AusTerrapin" title="User:AusTerrapin">User:AusTerrapin</a> to finish up implementation of the rest, which he has kindly volunteered to do. <a href="/wiki/User:Good_Olfactory" title="User:Good Olfactory">Good Ol’factory</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Good_Olfactory" title="User talk:Good Olfactory">(talk)</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2010_August_12#c-Good_Olfactory-2010-08-24T08:57:00.000Z-Category:Recipients_of_the_Order_of_the_White_Elephant" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">08:57, 24 August 2010 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl> <hr/> <dl><dd>Propose merging <a href="/w/index.php?title=Category:Recipients_of_the_Order_of_the_White_Elephant&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category:Recipients of the Order of the White Elephant (page does not exist)">Category:Recipients of the Order of the White Elephant</a> to <a href="/w/index.php?title=Category:Members_of_the_Order_of_the_White_Elephant&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category:Members of the Order of the White Elephant (page does not exist)">Category:Members of the Order of the White Elephant</a></dd> <dd>Nominator's rationale: Merge as duplicates. Both categories appear to refer the <a href="/wiki/Order_of_the_White_Elephant" title="Order of the White Elephant">Order of the White Elephant</a>, and I can see no difference between them relating to various ranks of the order. --<a href="/wiki/User:BrownHairedGirl" title="User:BrownHairedGirl">BrownHairedGirl</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:BrownHairedGirl" title="User talk:BrownHairedGirl">(talk)</a> • (<a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/BrownHairedGirl" title="Special:Contributions/BrownHairedGirl">contribs</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2010_August_12#c-BrownHairedGirl-2010-08-12T18:21:00.000Z-Category:Recipients_of_the_Order_of_the_White_Elephant" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:21, 12 August 2010 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl> <ul><li>No strong opinion either way. Clearly, the two should be merged, but the format "Recipients of <article title>" seems to offer some commonality. There are exceptions such as Knights of the Order of Orange-Nassau and Companions of the Distinguished Service Order and others, but "recipients of " is widely used. A common format enables categories to be created and added to easily. So, perhaps the merge should go the other way (despite "Members of " being first created and better populated). Similar arguments apply to Recipients of the Order of the Royal House of Chakri and Recipients of the Order of the Crown of Thailand. <a href="/wiki/User:Folks_at_137" title="User:Folks at 137">Folks at 137</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Folks_at_137" title="User talk:Folks at 137">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2010_August_12#c-Folks_at_137-2010-08-12T20:35:00.000Z-Category:Recipients_of_the_Order_of_the_White_Elephant" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:35, 12 August 2010 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>AFICS from British awards, "recipients of" is used for medals, but a difft style is used for orders, which one cannot technically "receive" (a person becomes a "member" of some grade on an order). See e.g. <a href="/wiki/Category:Recipients_of_the_Victoria_Cross" title="Category:Recipients of the Victoria Cross">Category:Recipients of the Victoria Cross</a> and the other subcats of <a href="/wiki/Category:Recipients_of_United_Kingdom_military_awards_and_decorations" title="Category:Recipients of United Kingdom military awards and decorations">Category:Recipients of United Kingdom military awards and decorations</a> ... whereas orders use "members" of, as shown by the subcats of <a href="/wiki/Category:Recipients_of_United_Kingdom_civil_awards_and_decorations" title="Category:Recipients of United Kingdom civil awards and decorations">Category:Recipients of United Kingdom civil awards and decorations</a>.</dd> <dd>I will notify <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Orders,_Decorations,_and_Medals" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Orders, Decorations, and Medals">WikiProject Orders, Decorations, and Medals</a>. --<a href="/wiki/User:BrownHairedGirl" title="User:BrownHairedGirl">BrownHairedGirl</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:BrownHairedGirl" title="User talk:BrownHairedGirl">(talk)</a> • (<a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/BrownHairedGirl" title="Special:Contributions/BrownHairedGirl">contribs</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2010_August_12#c-BrownHairedGirl-2010-08-12T23:59:00.000Z-Folks_at_137-2010-08-12T20:35:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:59, 12 August 2010 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></li> <li>Rename <a href="/w/index.php?title=Category:Recipients_of_the_Order_of_the_White_Elephant&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category:Recipients of the Order of the White Elephant (page does not exist)">Category:Recipients of the Order of the White Elephant</a> to <a href="/w/index.php?title=Category:Knights_Grand_Cross_of_the_Order_of_the_White_Elephant&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category:Knights Grand Cross of the Order of the White Elephant (page does not exist)">Category:Knights Grand Cross of the Order of the White Elephant</a>. Thanks for notifying WP:ODM. In accordance with WP:ODM practice (I have been quite active in categorisation for the project), 'Recipient of...' is indeed reserved for decorations and medals, and, as noted by BrownHairedGirl, it is quite incorrect to refer to someone as a recipient of an Order. However the solution is not to merge to 'Member of...' For chivalric and merit orders, the preferred WP:ODM practice is to split based on membership grade (and further if the quantity of category members warrants it), this gives the category structure:</li></ul> <dl><dd><a href="/wiki/Category:Orders,_decorations,_and_medals_of_Thailand" title="Category:Orders, decorations, and medals of Thailand">Category:Orders, decorations, and medals of Thailand</a> <ul><li><a href="/w/index.php?title=Category:Order_of_the_White_Elephant&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category:Order of the White Elephant (page does not exist)">Category:Order of the White Elephant</a></li></ul> <dl><dd><ul><li><a href="/w/index.php?title=Category:Knights_Grand_Cordon_of_the_Order_of_the_White_Elephant&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category:Knights Grand Cordon of the Order of the White Elephant (page does not exist)">Category:Knights Grand Cordon of the Order of the White Elephant</a></li> <li><a href="/w/index.php?title=Category:Knights_Grand_Cross_of_the_Order_of_the_White_Elephant&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category:Knights Grand Cross of the Order of the White Elephant (page does not exist)">Category:Knights Grand Cross of the Order of the White Elephant</a></li> <li><a href="/w/index.php?title=Category:Knights_Commander_of_the_Order_of_the_White_Elephant&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category:Knights Commander of the Order of the White Elephant (page does not exist)">Category:Knights Commander of the Order of the White Elephant</a></li> <li><a href="/w/index.php?title=Category:Commanders_of_the_Order_of_the_White_Elephant&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category:Commanders of the Order of the White Elephant (page does not exist)">Category:Commanders of the Order of the White Elephant</a></li> <li><a href="/w/index.php?title=Category:Companions_of_the_Order_of_the_White_Elephant&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category:Companions of the Order of the White Elephant (page does not exist)">Category:Companions of the Order of the White Elephant</a></li> <li><a href="/w/index.php?title=Category:Members_of_the_Order_of_the_White_Elephant&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category:Members of the Order of the White Elephant (page does not exist)">Category:Members of the Order of the White Elephant</a></li> <li>Category:Recipients of the Gold Medal of the Order of the White Elephant</li> <li>Category:Recipients of the Silver Medal of the Order of the White Elephant</li></ul></dd></dl></dd> <dd><a href="/wiki/Category:Knights_by_country" title="Category:Knights by country">Category:Knights by country</a> <ul><li><a href="/wiki/Category:Thai_knights" title="Category:Thai knights">Category:Thai knights</a></li></ul> <dl><dd><ul><li><a href="/w/index.php?title=Category:Knights_Grand_Cordon_of_the_Order_of_the_White_Elephant&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category:Knights Grand Cordon of the Order of the White Elephant (page does not exist)">Category:Knights Grand Cordon of the Order of the White Elephant</a></li> <li><a href="/w/index.php?title=Category:Knights_Grand_Cross_of_the_Order_of_the_White_Elephant&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category:Knights Grand Cross of the Order of the White Elephant (page does not exist)">Category:Knights Grand Cross of the Order of the White Elephant</a></li> <li><a href="/w/index.php?title=Category:Knights_Commander_of_the_Order_of_the_White_Elephant&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category:Knights Commander of the Order of the White Elephant (page does not exist)">Category:Knights Commander of the Order of the White Elephant</a></li></ul></dd></dl></dd> <dd>Distribution of members of the <a href="/w/index.php?title=Category:Recipients_of_the_Order_of_the_White_Elephant&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category:Recipients of the Order of the White Elephant (page does not exist)">Category:Recipients of the Order of the White Elephant</a> is as follows: <ul><li>Knights Grand Cordon - Ibrahim of Johor, Amha Selassie of Ethiopia?</li> <li>Knights Grand Cross - Louis Mountbatten, 1st Earl Mountbatten of Burma; Nathan Farragut Twining?, William Westmoreland</li> <li>Commander - Pham Van Dong</li></ul></dd> <dd>Based on this my recommendation is to Rename <a href="/w/index.php?title=Category:Recipients_of_the_Order_of_the_White_Elephant&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category:Recipients of the Order of the White Elephant (page does not exist)">Category:Recipients of the Order of the White Elephant</a> to <a href="/w/index.php?title=Category:Knights_Grand_Cross_of_the_Order_of_the_White_Elephant&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category:Knights Grand Cross of the Order of the White Elephant (page does not exist)">Category:Knights Grand Cross of the Order of the White Elephant</a> (this will minimise the number of articles to move out), I will then raise additional categories for the various grades as required (based on which will actually be populated) and recategorise articles/sub-categories as appropriate. Given the low number involved and the requirement to move in multiple directions, this will be best done manually. <a href="/w/index.php?title=Category:Members_of_the_Order_of_the_White_Elephant&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category:Members of the Order of the White Elephant (page does not exist)">Category:Members of the Order of the White Elephant</a> should be used exclusively for the Member grade of the order. As can be observed with the categories in issue, this practice has not universally been implemented across all relevant Wikipedia articles yet - it is a work in progress. I think that, early on, the practice of lumping all grades together was seen as expedient by some editors and whilst there were low numbers of people to go in these categories, that worked well enough. The difficulty is that once larger numbers of eligible articles are categorised, this leads to an unwieldy number of articles in a generic category and a significant workload to diffuse them into appropriate sub-categories. Much better to start with an appropriate range of clearly definable sub-categories, even if they are sparsely populated initially. Cheers, <a href="/wiki/User:AusTerrapin" title="User:AusTerrapin">AusTerrapin</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:AusTerrapin" title="User talk:AusTerrapin">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2010_August_12#c-AusTerrapin-2010-08-13T03:25:00.000Z-Category:Recipients_of_the_Order_of_the_White_Elephant" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">03:25, 13 August 2010 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl> <ul><li><dl><dd>Many thanks to AusTerrapin for that detailed analysis. That looks to me like a good structure, although a lot of work ... but if someone is ready to volunteer to do the necessary splitting, a rename to <a href="/w/index.php?title=Category:Knights_Grand_Cross_of_the_Order_of_the_White_Elephant&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category:Knights Grand Cross of the Order of the White Elephant (page does not exist)">Category:Knights Grand Cross of the Order of the White Elephant</a> sounds like the right step to take. --<a href="/wiki/User:BrownHairedGirl" title="User:BrownHairedGirl">BrownHairedGirl</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:BrownHairedGirl" title="User talk:BrownHairedGirl">(talk)</a> • (<a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/BrownHairedGirl" title="Special:Contributions/BrownHairedGirl">contribs</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2010_August_12#c-BrownHairedGirl-2010-08-13T21:38:00.000Z-AusTerrapin-2010-08-13T03:25:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:38, 13 August 2010 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></li></ul> <dl><dd><ul><li><dl><dd>I am volunteering - that's the sort of categorisation work I am already doing, although my main focus to date has been British and Commonwealth orders, decorations and medals...except when I temporarily follow tangential threads, like this one. Sorting out this Order is not that big, although there are a handful of individuals where their grade is not readily identifiable, however it is nowhere near the scale of some of the British Orders where there are typically several hundred to diffuse :) I have tweaked the proposed category names for the Gold and Silver medals of the order - medals of orders are not usually considered to confer small 'm' membership of the order, so in this case the convention per decorations and medals is to refer to them as Recipients of the appropriate medal. Cheers, <a href="/wiki/User:AusTerrapin" title="User:AusTerrapin">AusTerrapin</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:AusTerrapin" title="User talk:AusTerrapin">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2010_August_12#c-AusTerrapin-2010-08-14T06:02:00.000Z-BrownHairedGirl-2010-08-13T21:38:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">06:02, 14 August 2010 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></li></ul></dd></dl> <ul><li>ReOrg per discussion with <a href="/wiki/User:AusTerrapin" title="User:AusTerrapin">AusTerrapin</a>, above. - <a href="/wiki/User:Jc37" title="User:Jc37">jc37</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2010_August_12#c-Jc37-2010-08-19T21:37:00.000Z-Category:Recipients_of_the_Order_of_the_White_Elephant" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:37, 19 August 2010 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li> <li>Given that 7 days have passed and that consensus appears to unanimously support my proposed changes, I have put in place the rest of the category structure and have categorised all articles according. The only people now remaining in <a href="/w/index.php?title=Category:Recipients_of_the_Order_of_the_White_Elephant&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category:Recipients of the Order of the White Elephant (page does not exist)">Category:Recipients of the Order of the White Elephant</a> are Knights Grand Cross of the Order of the White Elephant (per the proposed renaming of the category). I have done a comprehensive search of Wikipedia and have added a bunch of people to the various grade categories as appropriate (including reviewing everyone in <a href="/w/index.php?title=Category:Members_of_the_Order_of_the_White_Elephant&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category:Members of the Order of the White Elephant (page does not exist)">Category:Members of the Order of the White Elephant</a>) - all up 75 people's Wikipedia articles refer to them as having been appointed to the Order and are now categorised by grade, of these 16 pages are now pointing to <a href="/w/index.php?title=Category:Knights_Grand_Cross_of_the_Order_of_the_White_Elephant&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category:Knights Grand Cross of the Order of the White Elephant (page does not exist)">Category:Knights Grand Cross of the Order of the White Elephant</a> in anticipation of the rename. Those now in <a href="/w/index.php?title=Category:Order_of_the_White_Elephant&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category:Order of the White Elephant (page does not exist)">Category:Order of the White Elephant</a>, did not have identifiable grades mentioned in their articles. Cheers, <a href="/wiki/User:AusTerrapin" title="User:AusTerrapin">AusTerrapin</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:AusTerrapin" title="User talk:AusTerrapin">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2010_August_12#c-AusTerrapin-2010-08-20T20:01:00.000Z-Category:Recipients_of_the_Order_of_the_White_Elephant" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:01, 20 August 2010 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li></ul> <hr/> <dl><dd>The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Deletion_review" title="Wikipedia:Deletion review">deletion review</a>). No further edits should be made to this section.</dd></dl></div> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading4"><h4 id="Category:People_accused_of_antisemitism" data-mw-thread-id="h-Category:People_accused_of_antisemitism-August_12-2010-08-12T17:47:00.000Z">Category:People accused of antisemitism</h4>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2010_August_12&action=edit&section=8" title="Edit section: Category:People accused of antisemitism">edit</a>]</div> <div class="boilerplate vfd" style="background:#bff9fc; margin:0 auto; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #AAAAAA;"> <dl><dd>The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Deletion_review" title="Wikipedia:Deletion review">deletion review</a>). No further edits should be made to this section.</dd></dl> <dl><dd>The result of the discussion was: speedy delete. Categories of very similar names have been deleted numerous times before, so this is essentially re-creation of previously deleted material. This tends to come up about once per year. See, eg, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2008_February_20#Category:Alleged_anti-semites" title="Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2008 February 20">here</a> and <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_deletion/Log/2006_August_4#Category:Allegedly_anti-Semitic_people" title="Wikipedia:Categories for deletion/Log/2006 August 4">here</a>, as well as the one pointed out by BrownHairedGirl below. I think it's also clear that articles about people should not be included in <a href="/wiki/Category:Antisemitism" title="Category:Antisemitism">Category:Antisemitism</a> just because they have been accused of having made an antisemitic remark. <a href="/wiki/User:Good_Olfactory" title="User:Good Olfactory">Good Ol’factory</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Good_Olfactory" title="User talk:Good Olfactory">(talk)</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2010_August_12#c-Good_Olfactory-2010-08-12T22:24:00.000Z-Category:People_accused_of_antisemitism" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:24, 12 August 2010 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl> <hr/> <dl><dd><a href="/w/index.php?title=Category:People_accused_of_antisemitism&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category:People accused of antisemitism (page does not exist)">Category:People accused of antisemitism</a> (<a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Category:People_accused_of_antisemitism&action=edit">edit</a> | <a href="/w/index.php?title=Category_talk:People_accused_of_antisemitism&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category talk:People accused of antisemitism (page does not exist)">talk</a> | <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Category:People_accused_of_antisemitism&action=history">history</a> | <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Whatlinkshere/:Category:People_accused_of_antisemitism">links</a> | <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Category:People_accused_of_antisemitism&action=watch">watch</a> | <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Log&page=%3ACategory%3APeople+accused+of+antisemitism">logs</a>) </dd> <dd>Nominator's rationale: This is an inherently POV category, which can be expected to provide hours of pointless arguments, without adding anything of worth to Wikipedia. <a href="/wiki/User:RolandR" title="User:RolandR">RolandR</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:RolandR" title="User talk:RolandR">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2010_August_12#c-RolandR-2010-08-12T17:47:00.000Z-Category:People_accused_of_antisemitism" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:47, 12 August 2010 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl> <ul><li>Delete per nom. — <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Malik_Shabazz&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Malik Shabazz (page does not exist)">Malik Shabazz</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Malik_Shabazz" title="User talk:Malik Shabazz">Talk</a>/<a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Malik_Shabazz" title="Special:Contributions/Malik Shabazz">Stalk</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2010_August_12#c-Malik_Shabazz-2010-08-12T17:48:00.000Z-Category:People_accused_of_antisemitism" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:48, 12 August 2010 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li> <li>Keep. The inclusion criteria is clear and with 428 in the parent cat we really need to take some weight of <a href="/wiki/Category:Antisemitism" title="Category:Antisemitism">Category:Antisemitism</a>. // <a href="/wiki/User:Liftarn" title="User:Liftarn">Liftarn</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Liftarn" title="User talk:Liftarn">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2010_August_12#c-Liftarn-2010-08-12T17:51:00.000Z-Category:People_accused_of_antisemitism" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:51, 12 August 2010 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li> <li>Need Larger Policy Discussion which I've tried to start here: <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Biographies_of_living_persons#Inconsistencies.2Fambiguities_in_categories_about_various_forms_of_bigotry" title="Wikipedia talk:Biographies of living persons">Wikipedia_talk:Biographies_of_living_persons#Inconsistencies.2Fambiguities_in_categories_about_various_forms_of_bigotry</a>. If there are sufficient WP:RS that people are accused of any form of bigotry either a) there should have a category saying so or b) they should not be in a general, vague category on that topic, overloading it and confusing its message. (Of course, some people are in the category because they are opposed to/work against/are victims of that form of bigotry, which is another issue entirely, but also needs addressing, in a less immediate fashion.) <a href="/wiki/User:Carolmooredc" title="User:Carolmooredc">CarolMooreDC</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Carolmooredc" title="User talk:Carolmooredc">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2010_August_12#c-Carolmooredc-2010-08-12T18:04:00.000Z-Category:People_accused_of_antisemitism" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:04, 12 August 2010 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li> <li>Delete - accused is a bit vague for this type of heavy accusation. Parent cat may be in need of diffusion, but deleting this cat and removing the pages from <a href="/wiki/Category:Antisemitism" title="Category:Antisemitism">Category:Antisemitism</a> will take of the same weight as sub-categorizing. <a href="/wiki/User:Jonkerz" title="User:Jonkerz">jonkerz</a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Jonkerz" title="User talk:Jonkerz">♠</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2010_August_12#c-Jonkerz-2010-08-12T18:08:00.000Z-Category:People_accused_of_antisemitism" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:08, 12 August 2010 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li> <li>I would favor deleting any category solely based on accusations. <a href="/wiki/User:Mangoe" title="User:Mangoe">Mangoe</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Mangoe" title="User talk:Mangoe">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2010_August_12#c-Mangoe-2010-08-12T18:34:00.000Z-Category:People_accused_of_antisemitism" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:34, 12 August 2010 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li> <li>Strong delete. This a horrendous basis for a category. A blatantly false and malicious accusation is enough to place someone in here, so long as the the accusation is reported in reliable sources ... yet the fact that the accusation appears prominently at the bottom of the article gives it a lot of weight, and may lead the reader to draw adverse conclusions on the no-smoke-without-fire principle. <a href="/w/index.php?title=Category:Anti-Semitic_people&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category:Anti-Semitic people (page does not exist)">Category:Anti-Semitic people</a> was deleted at <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_March_27#Category:Anti-Semitic_people" title="Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2007 March 27">CFD 2007 March 27</a>, on the grounds of subjectivity: just how anti-semitic do you need to be for inclusion? Is it enough to have said that all things considered, you sometimes don't find Hasidic beards very sexy, or (at the other extreme) do you need to be a fully-fledged mass-murderer? This category carries all those problems of subjectivity, and adds a further layer of subjectivity relating to the significance of the accuser: is it enough to show that the term was once hurled as abuse on the street, or do you need a scholarly biography which makes the charge? --<a href="/wiki/User:BrownHairedGirl" title="User:BrownHairedGirl">BrownHairedGirl</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:BrownHairedGirl" title="User talk:BrownHairedGirl">(talk)</a> • (<a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/BrownHairedGirl" title="Special:Contributions/BrownHairedGirl">contribs</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2010_August_12#c-BrownHairedGirl-2010-08-12T18:37:00.000Z-Category:People_accused_of_antisemitism" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:37, 12 August 2010 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li> <li>Delete per nom. Per <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:UNDUE" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:UNDUE">WP:UNDUE</a>. Per <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:BLPCAT" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:BLPCAT">WP:BLP</a>. Per <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:COMMON" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:COMMON">common sense</a>. <a href="/wiki/User:Chickenmonkey" title="User:Chickenmonkey"> Chicken</a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Chickenmonkey" title="User talk:Chickenmonkey">monkey </a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2010_August_12#c-Chickenmonkey-2010-08-12T19:00:00.000Z-Category:People_accused_of_antisemitism" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:00, 12 August 2010 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li> <li>'Strongest possible delete A POV smear magnet. <a href="/wiki/User:AllyD" title="User:AllyD">AllyD</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:AllyD" title="User talk:AllyD">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2010_August_12#c-AllyD-2010-08-12T20:01:00.000Z-Category:People_accused_of_antisemitism" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:01, 12 August 2010 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li> <li>Delete - Per BrownHairedGirl. <a href="/wiki/User:Garion96" title="User:Garion96">Garion96</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Garion96" title="User talk:Garion96">(talk)</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2010_August_12#c-Garion96-2010-08-12T20:05:00.000Z-Category:People_accused_of_antisemitism" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:05, 12 August 2010 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li></ul> <hr/> <dl><dd>The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Deletion_review" title="Wikipedia:Deletion review">deletion review</a>). No further edits should be made to this section.</dd></dl></div> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading4"><h4 id="Category:Trochilidae" data-mw-thread-id="h-Category:Trochilidae-August_12-2010-08-12T16:54:00.000Z">Category:Trochilidae</h4>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2010_August_12&action=edit&section=9" title="Edit section: Category:Trochilidae">edit</a>]</div> <div class="boilerplate vfd" style="background:#bff9fc; margin:0 auto; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #AAAAAA;"> <dl><dd>The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Deletion_review" title="Wikipedia:Deletion review">deletion review</a>). No further edits should be made to this section.</dd></dl> <dl><dd>The result of the discussion was: keep. However, a merge the other direction might gain more traction, as the Latin name seems to predominate in our taxonomy system.--<a href="/wiki/User:Mike_Selinker" title="User:Mike Selinker">Mike Selinker</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Mike_Selinker" title="User talk:Mike Selinker">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2010_August_12#c-Mike_Selinker-2010-08-25T05:29:00.000Z-Category:Trochilidae" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">05:29, 25 August 2010 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl> <dl><dd>Propose merging <a href="/w/index.php?title=Category:Trochilidae&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category:Trochilidae (page does not exist)">Category:Trochilidae</a> to <a href="/wiki/Category:Hummingbirds" title="Category:Hummingbirds">Category:Hummingbirds</a></dd> <dd>Nominator's rationale: Merge. Interchangeable terms. Choosing the common name to match with the main article (<a href="/wiki/Hummingbird" title="Hummingbird">Hummingbird</a>). <a href="/wiki/User:Dawynn" title="User:Dawynn">Dawynn</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Dawynn" title="User talk:Dawynn">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2010_August_12#c-Dawynn-2010-08-12T16:54:00.000Z-Category:Trochilidae" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:54, 12 August 2010 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl> <ul><li>Oppose The category tree appears to be by the classification. That said, I am curious about the various subcats of <a href="/wiki/Category:Birds_by_common_name" title="Category:Birds by common name">Category:Birds by common name</a>. The two category trees appear to be each doing something different. So perhaps some cleanup might be needed here for clarity? - <a href="/wiki/User:Jc37" title="User:Jc37">jc37</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2010_August_12#c-Jc37-2010-08-19T22:07:00.000Z-Category:Trochilidae" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:07, 19 August 2010 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li></ul> <dl><dd><dl><dd>Comment: In general, jc37 is right that the dominant form of categorization for animals and plants is by Latin species names rather than common English ones. However, as they also correctly point out, at various places in the category tree there are exceptions where an English name has been used instead (frex, <a href="/wiki/Category:Orchidaceae" title="Category:Orchidaceae">Category:Orchidaceae</a> is a redirect to <a href="/wiki/Category:Orchids" title="Category:Orchids">Category:Orchids</a>, not vice versa) or where both names exist alongside each other. So I'd agree that some cleanup and/or clarity is needed. <a href="/wiki/User:Bearcat" title="User:Bearcat">Bearcat</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Bearcat" title="User talk:Bearcat">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2010_August_12#c-Bearcat-2010-08-22T05:35:00.000Z-Jc37-2010-08-19T22:07:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">05:35, 22 August 2010 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd></dl> <hr/> <dl><dd>The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Deletion_review" title="Wikipedia:Deletion review">deletion review</a>). No further edits should be made to this section.</dd></dl></div> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading4"><h4 id="Category:Financial_aid" data-mw-thread-id="h-Category:Financial_aid-August_12-2010-08-12T15:39:00.000Z">Category:Financial aid</h4>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2010_August_12&action=edit&section=10" title="Edit section: Category:Financial aid">edit</a>]</div> <div class="boilerplate vfd" style="background:#bff9fc; margin:0 auto; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #AAAAAA;"> <dl><dd>The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Deletion_review" title="Wikipedia:Deletion review">deletion review</a>). No further edits should be made to this section.</dd></dl> <dl><dd>The result of the discussion was: rename. <a href="/wiki/User:Courcelles" title="User:Courcelles">Courcelles</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2010_August_12#c-Courcelles-2010-08-19T23:54:00.000Z-Category:Financial_aid" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:54, 19 August 2010 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl> <hr/> <dl><dd>Propose renaming <a href="/w/index.php?title=Category:Financial_aid&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category:Financial aid (page does not exist)">Category:Financial aid</a> to <a href="/wiki/Category:Student_financial_aid" title="Category:Student financial aid">Category:Student financial aid</a></dd> <dd>Nominator's rationale: to match main article, <a href="/wiki/Student_financial_aid" title="Student financial aid">Student financial aid</a>. In addition, this category could be mixed up with <a href="/wiki/Welfare_(financial_aid)" class="mw-redirect" title="Welfare (financial aid)">Welfare (financial aid)</a>. <a href="/wiki/User:Jonkerz" title="User:Jonkerz">jonkerz</a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Jonkerz" title="User talk:Jonkerz">♠</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2010_August_12#c-Jonkerz-2010-08-12T15:39:00.000Z-Category:Financial_aid" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:39, 12 August 2010 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl> <ul><li>Support rename as proposed. <a href="/wiki/User:Mangoe" title="User:Mangoe">Mangoe</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Mangoe" title="User talk:Mangoe">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2010_August_12#c-Mangoe-2010-08-12T18:35:00.000Z-Category:Financial_aid" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:35, 12 August 2010 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li></ul> <hr/> <dl><dd>The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Deletion_review" title="Wikipedia:Deletion review">deletion review</a>). No further edits should be made to this section.</dd></dl></div> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading4"><h4 id="Category:Former_anti-Islam_activists" data-mw-thread-id="h-Category:Former_anti-Islam_activists-August_12-2010-08-12T05:41:00.000Z">Category:Former anti-Islam activists</h4>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2010_August_12&action=edit&section=11" title="Edit section: Category:Former anti-Islam activists">edit</a>]</div> <div class="boilerplate vfd" style="background:#bff9fc; margin:0 auto; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #AAAAAA;"> <dl><dd>The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Deletion_review" title="Wikipedia:Deletion review">deletion review</a>). No further edits should be made to this section.</dd></dl> <dl><dd>The result of the discussion was: delete. <a href="/wiki/User:Courcelles" title="User:Courcelles">Courcelles</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2010_August_12#c-Courcelles-2010-08-19T23:53:00.000Z-Category:Former_anti-Islam_activists" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:53, 19 August 2010 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl> <hr/> <dl><dd><a href="/w/index.php?title=Category:Former_anti-Islam_activists&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category:Former anti-Islam activists (page does not exist)">Category:Former anti-Islam activists</a> (<a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Category:Former_anti-Islam_activists&action=edit">edit</a> | <a href="/w/index.php?title=Category_talk:Former_anti-Islam_activists&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category talk:Former anti-Islam activists (page does not exist)">talk</a> | <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Category:Former_anti-Islam_activists&action=history">history</a> | <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Whatlinkshere/:Category:Former_anti-Islam_activists">links</a> | <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Category:Former_anti-Islam_activists&action=watch">watch</a> | <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Log&page=%3ACategory%3AFormer+anti-Islam+activists">logs</a>) </dd> <dd>Nominator's rationale: Delete. People sometimes change their minds, I don't think it would be useful to have a lot of "former _____" categories. Also two of the three articles in this category are about figures from the early history of Islam who wouldn't normally be described as "activists." <a href="/wiki/User:Prezbo" title="User:Prezbo">Prezbo</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Prezbo" title="User talk:Prezbo">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2010_August_12#c-Prezbo-2010-08-12T05:41:00.000Z-Category:Former_anti-Islam_activists" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">05:41, 12 August 2010 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>who wouldn't normally be described as "activists." then how? "Activism consists of intentional action to bring about social, political, economic, or environmental change. This action is in support of, or opposition to, one side of an often controversial argument." I think they could be described as this. And I think it's pretty useful category, as it's a very crucial point in the life of a person who became a muslim after he has been opposing Islam. <a href="/wiki/User:Userpd" title="User:Userpd">Userpd</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Userpd" title="User talk:Userpd">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2010_August_12#c-Userpd-2010-08-12T07:12:00.000Z-Prezbo-2010-08-12T05:41:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">07:12, 12 August 2010 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Have you ever seen <a href="/wiki/Umar" title="Umar">Umar</a> described as an "activist"? Wikipedia should describe people the way the rest of the world does. "Activist" is vague enough that you can apply it to anyone if you really wanted to, but generally it's not how people describe the rulers of countries. Wikipedia shouldn't try to convey the full narrative of someone's life through categories; the fact that there are at best three people who fit into this category demonstrates that.<a href="/wiki/User:Prezbo" title="User:Prezbo">Prezbo</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Prezbo" title="User talk:Prezbo">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2010_August_12#c-Prezbo-2010-08-12T07:37:00.000Z-Userpd-2010-08-12T07:12:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">07:37, 12 August 2010 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Then it should be renamed, not deleted, to a proper name (if it's really that necessary as "activist" being a modern name can be still formally applied to people from the past"), since such category seems to be important and needed. <a href="/wiki/User:Userpd" title="User:Userpd">Userpd</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Userpd" title="User talk:Userpd">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2010_August_12#c-Userpd-2010-08-12T18:19:00.000Z-Prezbo-2010-08-12T07:37:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:19, 12 August 2010 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd> <dd>Delete if also delete <a href="/w/index.php?title=Category:Anti-Islam_activists&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category:Anti-Islam activists (page does not exist)">Category:Anti-Islam activists</a> because it is biased to not allow article on other activists versus other religions. Either they all deserve a category or none do. However, if keep the category, keep this one because if someone decides not to be a bigot any more, they should be recognized as such. <a href="/wiki/User:Carolmooredc" title="User:Carolmooredc">CarolMooreDC</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Carolmooredc" title="User talk:Carolmooredc">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2010_August_12#c-Carolmooredc-2010-08-12T18:07:00.000Z-Category:Former_anti-Islam_activists" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:07, 12 August 2010 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Agree. <a href="/wiki/User:Userpd" title="User:Userpd">Userpd</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Userpd" title="User talk:Userpd">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2010_August_12#c-Userpd-2010-08-12T18:21:00.000Z-Carolmooredc-2010-08-12T18:07:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:21, 12 August 2010 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>I really don't think it's necessary to point out in categories that people have repented from their former misguided views. <a href="/wiki/Robert_Byrd" title="Robert Byrd">Robert Byrd</a> is still in <a href="/wiki/Category:Ku_Klux_Klan_members" title="Category:Ku Klux Klan members">Category:Ku Klux Klan members</a>. If you adopt this policy site-wide every objectionable ideology will have a "former ___" category with like one person in it.<a href="/wiki/User:Prezbo" title="User:Prezbo">Prezbo</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Prezbo" title="User talk:Prezbo">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2010_August_12#c-Prezbo-2010-08-12T18:25:00.000Z-Userpd-2010-08-12T18:21:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:25, 12 August 2010 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <ul><li>Delete - we don't generally divide categories by present/former affiliation. If someone thinks there is a problem with <a href="/w/index.php?title=Category:Anti-Islam_activists&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category:Anti-Islam activists (page does not exist)">Category:Anti-Islam activists</a>, then nominate that one for deletion, but this category at least is not a good idea. <a href="/wiki/User:Robofish" title="User:Robofish">Robofish</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Robofish" title="User talk:Robofish">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2010_August_12#c-Robofish-2010-08-13T18:55:00.000Z-Category:Former_anti-Islam_activists" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:55, 13 August 2010 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li></ul> <dl><dd>But wouldn't it seem to be non-neutral if delete this, and leave that. As for "there's no former thing" <a href="/wiki/Category:Former_Jehovah%27s_Witnesses" title="Category:Former Jehovah's Witnesses">check this out</a>. And also type in the search box: "Category: Former and in the drop down menu you would see a lot of results. So Keep. <a href="/wiki/User:Userpd" title="User:Userpd">Userpd</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Userpd" title="User talk:Userpd">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2010_August_12#c-Userpd-2010-08-13T20:13:00.000Z-Category:Former_anti-Islam_activists" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:13, 13 August 2010 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Well, we do categorise by former religion (<a href="/wiki/Category:People_by_former_religion" title="Category:People by former religion">Category:People by former religion</a>). But that's because religious conversion is a major event in a person's life, one easily verifiable and not easily reversible. But how are we supposed to verify if someone is a 'former anti-Islam activist'? In some cases (like with the people in this category at the moment) it's clear, but not always so - what if someone just stops actively campaigning, but privately keeps the same beliefs? As it happens, this category is currently being used to categorise people who converted to Islam who were formerly activists against it, which is fine, but doesn't seem necessary - they're all in <a href="/wiki/Category:Converts_to_Islam" title="Category:Converts to Islam">Category:Converts to Islam</a> already. <a href="/wiki/User:Robofish" title="User:Robofish">Robofish</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Robofish" title="User talk:Robofish">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2010_August_12#c-Robofish-2010-08-14T23:50:00.000Z-Userpd-2010-08-13T20:13:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:50, 14 August 2010 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>"but privately keeps the same beliefs" - then he wouldn't be called "former", he just stopped being "active". So under this category would fall obvious or clearly confirmed persons. As with the same success how can we sure if a person is "<a href="/w/index.php?title=Category:Anti-Islam_activists&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category:Anti-Islam activists (page does not exist)">Anti-Islamic activist</a>"? He may have some disagreements at certain aspects but don't be fully against Islam. <a href="/wiki/User:Userpd" title="User:Userpd">Userpd</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Userpd" title="User talk:Userpd">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2010_August_12#c-Userpd-2010-08-18T11:19:00.000Z-Robofish-2010-08-14T23:50:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">11:19, 18 August 2010 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <ul><li>Delete - Since this really leans on the "when" of when they became "former", this really should be a list, if anything. (plus it allows for references, etc.) - <a href="/wiki/User:Jc37" title="User:Jc37">jc37</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2010_August_12#c-Jc37-2010-08-19T21:37:00.000Z-Category:Former_anti-Islam_activists" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:37, 19 August 2010 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li></ul> <hr/> <dl><dd>The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Deletion_review" title="Wikipedia:Deletion review">deletion review</a>). No further edits should be made to this section.</dd></dl></div> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading4"><h4 id="Category:Eponymous_categories" data-mw-thread-id="h-Category:Eponymous_categories-August_12-2010-08-12T05:24:00.000Z">Category:Eponymous categories</h4>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2010_August_12&action=edit&section=12" title="Edit section: Category:Eponymous categories">edit</a>]</div> <div class="boilerplate vfd" style="background:#bff9fc; margin:0 auto; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #AAAAAA;"> <dl><dd>The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Deletion_review" title="Wikipedia:Deletion review">deletion review</a>). No further edits should be made to this section.</dd></dl> <dl><dd>The result of the discussion was: no consensus. Lots of good points were made, but I can't mine a consensus to take any specific actions based on it. Now can some people help remove the CFD tag from all these categories? <a href="/wiki/User:SchuminWeb" title="User:SchuminWeb">SchuminWeb</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:SchuminWeb" title="User talk:SchuminWeb">Talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2010_August_12#c-SchuminWeb-2010-09-05T02:36:00.000Z-Category:Eponymous_categories" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:36, 5 September 2010 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd> <dd><a href="/wiki/Category:Eponymous_categories" title="Category:Eponymous categories">Category:Eponymous categories</a> (<a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Category:Eponymous_categories&action=edit">edit</a> | <a href="/wiki/Category_talk:Eponymous_categories" title="Category talk:Eponymous categories">talk</a> | <a class="external text" 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title="Category talk:Categories named after populated places in Canada (page does not exist)">talk</a> | <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Category:Categories_named_after_populated_places_in_Canada&action=history">history</a> | <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Whatlinkshere/:Category:Categories_named_after_populated_places_in_Canada">links</a> | <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Category:Categories_named_after_populated_places_in_Canada&action=watch">watch</a> | <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Log&page=%3ACategory%3ACategories+named+after+populated+places+in+Canada">logs</a>) </dd> <dd><a href="/w/index.php?title=Category:Categories_named_after_cities_in_Colombia&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category:Categories named after cities in Colombia (page does not exist)">Category:Categories named after cities in Colombia</a> (<a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Category:Categories_named_after_cities_in_Colombia&action=edit">edit</a> | <a href="/w/index.php?title=Category_talk:Categories_named_after_cities_in_Colombia&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category talk:Categories named after cities in Colombia (page does not exist)">talk</a> | <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Category:Categories_named_after_cities_in_Colombia&action=history">history</a> | <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Whatlinkshere/:Category:Categories_named_after_cities_in_Colombia">links</a> | <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Category:Categories_named_after_cities_in_Colombia&action=watch">watch</a> | <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Log&page=%3ACategory%3ACategories+named+after+cities+in+Colombia">logs</a>) </dd> <dd><a href="/w/index.php?title=Category:Categories_named_after_cities_and_towns_in_Italy&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category:Categories named after cities and towns in Italy (page does not exist)">Category:Categories named after cities and towns in Italy</a> (<a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Category:Categories_named_after_cities_and_towns_in_Italy&action=edit">edit</a> | <a href="/w/index.php?title=Category_talk:Categories_named_after_cities_and_towns_in_Italy&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category talk:Categories named after cities and towns in Italy (page does not exist)">talk</a> | <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Category:Categories_named_after_cities_and_towns_in_Italy&action=history">history</a> | <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Whatlinkshere/:Category:Categories_named_after_cities_and_towns_in_Italy">links</a> | <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Category:Categories_named_after_cities_and_towns_in_Italy&action=watch">watch</a> | <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Log&page=%3ACategory%3ACategories+named+after+cities+and+towns+in+Italy">logs</a>) </dd> <dd><a href="/w/index.php?title=Category:Categories_named_after_populated_places_in_New_Zealand&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category:Categories named after populated places in New Zealand (page does not exist)">Category:Categories named after populated places in New Zealand</a> (<a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Category:Categories_named_after_populated_places_in_New_Zealand&action=edit">edit</a> | <a href="/w/index.php?title=Category_talk:Categories_named_after_populated_places_in_New_Zealand&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category talk:Categories named after populated places in New Zealand (page does not exist)">talk</a> | <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Category:Categories_named_after_populated_places_in_New_Zealand&action=history">history</a> | <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Whatlinkshere/:Category:Categories_named_after_populated_places_in_New_Zealand">links</a> | <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Category:Categories_named_after_populated_places_in_New_Zealand&action=watch">watch</a> | <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Log&page=%3ACategory%3ACategories+named+after+populated+places+in+New+Zealand">logs</a>) </dd> <dd><a href="/w/index.php?title=Category:Categories_named_after_wars&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category:Categories named after wars (page does not exist)">Category:Categories named after wars</a> (<a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Category:Categories_named_after_wars&action=edit">edit</a> | <a href="/w/index.php?title=Category_talk:Categories_named_after_wars&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category talk:Categories named after wars (page does not exist)">talk</a> | <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Category:Categories_named_after_wars&action=history">history</a> | <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Whatlinkshere/:Category:Categories_named_after_wars">links</a> | <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Category:Categories_named_after_wars&action=watch">watch</a> | <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Log&page=%3ACategory%3ACategories+named+after+wars">logs</a>) </dd> <dd><a href="/w/index.php?title=Category:Categories_named_after_vehicle_manufacturing_companies_of_the_United_States&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category:Categories named after vehicle manufacturing companies of the United States (page does not exist)">Category:Categories named after vehicle manufacturing companies of the United States</a> (<a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Category:Categories_named_after_vehicle_manufacturing_companies_of_the_United_States&action=edit">edit</a> | <a href="/w/index.php?title=Category_talk:Categories_named_after_vehicle_manufacturing_companies_of_the_United_States&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category talk:Categories named after vehicle manufacturing companies of the United States (page does not exist)">talk</a> | <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Category:Categories_named_after_vehicle_manufacturing_companies_of_the_United_States&action=history">history</a> | <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Whatlinkshere/:Category:Categories_named_after_vehicle_manufacturing_companies_of_the_United_States">links</a> | <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Category:Categories_named_after_vehicle_manufacturing_companies_of_the_United_States&action=watch">watch</a> | <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Log&page=%3ACategory%3ACategories+named+after+vehicle+manufacturing+companies+of+the+United+States">logs</a>) </dd></dl> </td></tr></tbody></table></div> <dl><dd>Nominator's rationale: Delete all. This category and sub-cats are redundant and serve no purpose. Categories for the eponymous articles already exist so it is needless duplication. In most cases if "Categories named after" is removed from the above categories the more useful category is found. Note that this is probably only a small subset of eponymous categories. -- <a href="/wiki/User:Alan_Liefting" title="User:Alan Liefting">Alan Liefting</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Alan_Liefting" title="User talk:Alan Liefting">talk</a>) - <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2010_August_12#c-Alan_Liefting-2010-08-12T05:24:00.000Z-Category:Eponymous_categories" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">05:24, 12 August 2010 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl> <ul><li>Comment. I am confused as to the nomination's rationale. Why are they redundant? Yes, the eponymous categories already exist, but these categories group multiple eponymous categories, do they not? I personally have found them quite useful for finding various eponymous categories, so I think it might be a stretch to say they "serve no purpose". <a href="/wiki/User:Good_Olfactory" title="User:Good Olfactory">Good Ol’factory</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Good_Olfactory" title="User talk:Good Olfactory">(talk)</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2010_August_12#c-Good_Olfactory-2010-08-12T08:17:00.000Z-Category:Eponymous_categories" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">08:17, 12 August 2010 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li></ul> <dl><dd><ul><li>Are they of use to you as an editor or reader? If it is the former they should be userfied or assigned to a WikiProject. Also, since there are a huge number of eponymous categories this is only a small collection of the total. Will it ever be a complete list? -- <a href="/wiki/User:Alan_Liefting" title="User:Alan Liefting">Alan Liefting</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Alan_Liefting" title="User talk:Alan Liefting">talk</a>) - <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2010_August_12#c-Alan_Liefting-2010-08-12T09:41:00.000Z-Good_Olfactory-2010-08-12T08:17:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">09:41, 12 August 2010 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li></ul> <dl><dd><ul><li>Both, I suppose. I edit while I read, and read while I edit. The categories can reasonably be complete insofar as they would include all the examples of eponymous categories of a certain type that currently exist on WP. <a href="/wiki/User:Good_Olfactory" title="User:Good Olfactory">Good Ol’factory</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Good_Olfactory" title="User talk:Good Olfactory">(talk)</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2010_August_12#c-Good_Olfactory-2010-08-12T22:14:00.000Z-Alan_Liefting-2010-08-12T09:41:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:14, 12 August 2010 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li></ul></dd></dl></dd></dl> <ul><li>Keep – there is no duplication whatever. <a href="/wiki/Category:Kylie_Minogue" title="Category:Kylie Minogue">Category:Kylie Minogue</a> is not a subcat of anything except various possible 'Category:Categories named after xxx' (the article <a href="/wiki/Kylie_Minogue" title="Kylie Minogue">Kylie Minogue</a> is in various categories; the category is not a subcat of these). (They are of use to any reader who is browsing categories.) <a href="/wiki/User:Occuli" class="mw-redirect" title="User:Occuli">Occuli</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Occuli" class="mw-redirect" title="User talk:Occuli">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2010_August_12#c-Occuli-2010-08-12T14:00:00.000Z-Category:Eponymous_categories" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">14:00, 12 August 2010 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li></ul> <dl><dd><ul><li>The fact that <a href="/wiki/Category:Kylie_Minogue" title="Category:Kylie Minogue">Category:Kylie Minogue</a> is only in the category in question is not a rationale for keeping the category. Also, <a href="/wiki/Category:Kylie_Minogue" title="Category:Kylie Minogue">Category:Kylie Minogue</a> can be in any of the categories that the <a href="/wiki/Kylie_Minogue" title="Kylie Minogue">Kylie Minogue</a> article is in. -- <a href="/wiki/User:Alan_Liefting" title="User:Alan Liefting">Alan Liefting</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Alan_Liefting" title="User talk:Alan Liefting">talk</a>) - <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2010_August_12#c-Alan_Liefting-2010-08-12T19:53:00.000Z-Occuli-2010-08-12T14:00:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:53, 12 August 2010 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li></ul> <dl><dd><ul><li>Exactly. --<a href="/wiki/User:Piotrus" title="User:Piotrus">Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus</a>|<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Piotrus" title="User talk:Piotrus"> talk </a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2010_August_12#c-Piotrus-2010-08-14T16:15:00.000Z-Alan_Liefting-2010-08-12T19:53:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:15, 14 August 2010 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li> <li>Actually, I tend to disagree. It's logical for <a href="/wiki/Kylie_Minogue" title="Kylie Minogue">Kylie Minogue</a> to be in <a href="/w/index.php?title=Category:Australian_female_singers&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category:Australian female singers (page does not exist)">Category:Australian female singers</a>, but it would make no sense for <a href="/wiki/Category:Kylie_Minogue" title="Category:Kylie Minogue">Category:Kylie Minogue</a> to be a subcategory of <a href="/w/index.php?title=Category:Australian_female_singers&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category:Australian female singers (page does not exist)">Category:Australian female singers</a> since not all articles in <a href="/wiki/Category:Kylie_Minogue" title="Category:Kylie Minogue">Category:Kylie Minogue</a> are Australian female singers. <a href="/wiki/User:Jafeluv" title="User:Jafeluv">Jafeluv</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Jafeluv" title="User talk:Jafeluv">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2010_August_12#c-Jafeluv-2010-09-01T11:38:00.000Z-Alan_Liefting-2010-08-12T19:53:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">11:38, 1 September 2010 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li></ul></dd></dl></dd></dl> <ul><li>Keep - I'll repeat the 2nd comment above: I am confused as to the nomination's rationale. —The Nominators "opinion" says it all: "This category and sub-cats are redundant and serve no purpose." One person's opinion, and I think I know what will become of it: There is, or should be a "Category:Eponymous categories", because I know of the category for "Eponymous named Scientific Laws", whatever the correct category name is... and that is one that goes under the Master category of "Category:Eponymous categories. And, the reason I added: (2 categories I made) <a href="/wiki/Category:Sierra_Madre_Occidental" title="Category:Sierra Madre Occidental">Category:Sierra Madre Occidental</a>, and <a href="/wiki/Category:Sierra_Madre_Oriental" title="Category:Sierra Madre Oriental">Category:Sierra Madre Oriental</a> to the cat: Categories named after mountain ranges, was because they were left out of the Category. (I have made other mountain range categories, and others, related.) And: Where else do you find "categories named after mountain ranges, except at: <a href="/w/index.php?title=Category:Categories_named_after_mountain_ranges&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category:Categories named after mountain ranges (page does not exist)">Category:Categories named after mountain ranges</a>, ? <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Mmcannis&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Mmcannis (page does not exist)">Mmcannis</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Mmcannis" title="User talk:Mmcannis">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2010_August_12#c-Mmcannis-2010-08-12T14:51:00.000Z-Category:Eponymous_categories" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">14:51, 12 August 2010 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li></ul> <dl><dd><ul><li>The contents of <a href="/w/index.php?title=Category:Categories_named_after_mountain_ranges&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category:Categories named after mountain ranges (page does not exist)">Category:Categories named after mountain ranges</a> is admirably served by <a href="/wiki/Category:Mountain_ranges" title="Category:Mountain ranges">Category:Mountain ranges</a> and all of its subcategories. -- <a href="/wiki/User:Alan_Liefting" title="User:Alan Liefting">Alan Liefting</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Alan_Liefting" title="User talk:Alan Liefting">talk</a>) - <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2010_August_12#c-Alan_Liefting-2010-08-12T19:53:00.000Z-Mmcannis-2010-08-12T14:51:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:53, 12 August 2010 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li></ul></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd><ul><li>You don't get it, as well as the confusion over, eponymous. Under <a href="/wiki/Category:Mountain_ranges" title="Category:Mountain ranges">Category:Mountain ranges</a>, there will Always be literally thousands, or tens of thousands of listed articles for "a mountain range". To imply that there should also be thousands of categories, so that each range is covered in its own cat is ridiculous. That's why the person, (or individuals) so quickly made the Categories, for Lakes, Mountain ranges, Valleys(Not Done), Religious texts, (I think there were 2 or 3 others I saw, all quickly created, and almost immediatley 90-95 PerCent populated)-(I doubt "categories named after mountain ranges" will ever exceed 2-4 percent of the Total, (or 1-2.5,percent)(pick a small number)...IMHO, all those categories were overdue, and like I say, the reason i(sic) added <a href="/wiki/Category:Sierra_Madre_Occidental" title="Category:Sierra Madre Occidental">category:Sierra Madre Occidental</a>, is that it is a Cordilleran mountain range. How else does the world know that it is also in a category of its own? You'd prefer to force an individual go look for it?. There it is. Right in a "small, exclusive, never to be very large category".) There are others yet to be done(created) in Mexico.. (Why do you think the Rocky Mountains has a category-?), but the <a href="/wiki/Dome_Rock_Mountains" title="Dome Rock Mountains">Dome Rock Mountains</a> of Arizona, will probably never have a category-? (it has some minerals, and history, but that's about it.)<a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Mmcannis&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Mmcannis (page does not exist)">Mmcannis</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Mmcannis" title="User talk:Mmcannis">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2010_August_12#c-Mmcannis-2010-08-13T02:16:00.000Z-Alan_Liefting-2010-08-12T19:53:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:16, 13 August 2010 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li></ul></dd></dl></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd><ul><li>Isn't there a purpose for each of these categories-?, (all needing to be judged individually). Calling them all eponymous is quite foolhardy, and not what was intended by the person that started all this. I suspect more than one person should own up to the 'eponymous' madness. Like I say, there is a category for Laws named after an individuals name, i.e. "eponymous".<a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Mmcannis&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Mmcannis (page does not exist)">Mmcannis</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Mmcannis" title="User talk:Mmcannis">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2010_August_12#c-Mmcannis-2010-08-13T02:21:00.000Z-Alan_Liefting-2010-08-12T19:53:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:21, 13 August 2010 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li></ul> <dl><dd><ul><li>I am not sure what are you trying to argue above, but there is a difference between categories named after... and laws named after. Laws are notable, categories aren't. I see the categories named after... as useful as if we were to have a category:Wikipedia pages named after article titles :> --<a href="/wiki/User:Piotrus" title="User:Piotrus">Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus</a>|<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Piotrus" title="User talk:Piotrus"> talk </a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2010_August_12#c-Piotrus-2010-08-14T16:15:00.000Z-Mmcannis-2010-08-13T02:21:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:15, 14 August 2010 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li></ul></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <ul><li><s>Delete There are certain categories in which the things in question invariably have proper names, and every category about such things is almost with exception going to be eponymous. For example, essentially every entry in <a href="/wiki/Category:Wars" title="Category:Wars">Category:Wars</a> and its subcategories, <a href="/wiki/Category:Novels" title="Category:Novels">Category:Novels</a> and its subcategories, <a href="/wiki/Category:Religious_texts" title="Category:Religious texts">Category:Religious texts</a>, museums, schools, companies, etc. I don't see why we need a separate set of categories to emphasize this; it's in the nature of the thing. It doesn't even rise to the level of trivia. <a href="/wiki/User:Mangoe" title="User:Mangoe">Mangoe</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Mangoe" title="User talk:Mangoe">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2010_August_12#c-Mangoe-2010-08-12T15:04:00.000Z-Category:Eponymous_categories" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:04, 12 August 2010 (UTC)</a></s>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li></ul> <dl><dd><ul><li>Nothing visible at the top level of <a href="/wiki/Category:Wars" title="Category:Wars">Category:Wars</a> is an eponymous category. There is no (independent) article <a href="/wiki/Wars" class="mw-redirect" title="Wars">Wars</a>, there is no article <a href="/w/index.php?title=Wars_by_country&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Wars by country (page does not exist)">Wars by country</a> etc. <a href="/wiki/Category:War" title="Category:War">Category:War</a> is eponymous and could be put in <a href="/wiki/Category:Eponymous_categories" title="Category:Eponymous categories">Category:Eponymous categories</a> (but <a href="/wiki/Category:War" title="Category:War">Category:War</a> has several valid parents). (IMO <a href="/w/index.php?title=Category:Categories_named_after_wars&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category:Categories named after wars (page does not exist)">Category:Categories named after wars</a> is not a subcat of <a href="/wiki/Category:Wars" title="Category:Wars">Category:Wars</a> and instead the two should be linked using {{<a href="/wiki/Template:CatRel" class="mw-redirect" title="Template:CatRel">CatRel</a>}} on both categories.) <a href="/wiki/User:Occuli" class="mw-redirect" title="User:Occuli">Occuli</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Occuli" class="mw-redirect" title="User talk:Occuli">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2010_August_12#c-Occuli-2010-08-12T15:52:00.000Z-Mangoe-2010-08-12T15:04:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:52, 12 August 2010 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li></ul> <dl><dd><ul><li>That's because there is for the most part a thick layer of classification between that category and any category about a specific war. One need only go down one level, however, and find that essentially every category within <a href="/wiki/Category:Global_conflicts" title="Category:Global conflicts">Category:Global conflicts</a> is eponymous, because the categories at that level are almost all about specific wars. Most categories under <a href="/wiki/Category:Wars_involving_the_United_States" title="Category:Wars involving the United States">Category:Wars involving the United States</a> are also eponymous, again because they are mostly for specific wars. Categories about specific things that have names are going to be eponymous, but I don't see how the various kinds of things that are given names have anything in common. After all, below this there should be a categorization of articles for <a href="/w/index.php?title=Category:Things_with_proper_names&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category:Things with proper names (page does not exist)">Category:Things with proper names</a> which would include articles on <a href="/wiki/War" title="War">War</a>, <a href="/wiki/Film" title="Film">film</a>, <a href="/wiki/Novel" title="Novel">novel</a>, <a href="/wiki/Ship" title="Ship">ship</a>, <a href="/wiki/Continent" title="Continent">continent</a>, <a href="/wiki/Planet" title="Planet">planet</a>, etc. <a href="/wiki/User:Mangoe" title="User:Mangoe">Mangoe</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Mangoe" title="User talk:Mangoe">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2010_August_12#c-Mangoe-2010-08-12T18:33:00.000Z-Occuli-2010-08-12T15:52:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:33, 12 August 2010 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li></ul></dd></dl></dd></dl> <ul><li>Rename all to <a href="/w/index.php?title=Category:Eponymous_categories_for_...&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category:Eponymous categories for ... (page does not exist)">Category:Eponymous categories for ...</a>. The categories are better described as sharing the name of the person or thing in question, that is being eponymous for (s)he/it, than they are 'named after' (s)he/it. <a href="/wiki/User:Mayumashu" title="User:Mayumashu">Mayumashu</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Mayumashu" title="User talk:Mayumashu">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2010_August_12#c-Mayumashu-2010-08-12T21:28:00.000Z-Category:Eponymous_categories" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:28, 12 August 2010 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li></ul> <dl><dd><ul><li>But that will not solve the problem. They will still be redundant and of little use. -- <a href="/wiki/User:Alan_Liefting" title="User:Alan Liefting">Alan Liefting</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Alan_Liefting" title="User talk:Alan Liefting">talk</a>) - <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2010_August_12#c-Alan_Liefting-2010-08-12T21:57:00.000Z-Mayumashu-2010-08-12T21:28:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:57, 12 August 2010 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li></ul> <dl><dd>I dont know that there is a problem in having them, per points raised by the 'keepers' here. <a href="/wiki/User:Mayumashu" title="User:Mayumashu">Mayumashu</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Mayumashu" title="User talk:Mayumashu">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2010_August_12#c-Mayumashu-2010-08-17T14:22:00.000Z-Mayumashu-2010-08-12T21:28:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">14:22, 17 August 2010 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd>Reasons include clutter, confusion and the need for ongoing maintenance. -- <a href="/wiki/User:Alan_Liefting" title="User:Alan Liefting">Alan Liefting</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Alan_Liefting" title="User talk:Alan Liefting">talk</a>) - <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2010_August_12#c-Alan_Liefting-2010-08-20T09:17:00.000Z-Mayumashu-2010-08-17T14:22:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">09:17, 20 August 2010 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <ul><li>Keep per Occuli. I must be thick, because I still can't understand how there is a redundancy here. Oftentimes, we don't want <a href="/wiki/Category:Kylie_Minogue" title="Category:Kylie Minogue">Category:Kylie Minogue</a> to be a subcategory of all of the categories that apply to <a href="/wiki/Kylie_Minogue" title="Kylie Minogue">Kylie Minogue</a>. Would we put <a href="/wiki/Category:Kylie_Minogue" title="Category:Kylie Minogue">Category:Kylie Minogue</a> in <a href="/wiki/Category:1968_births" title="Category:1968 births">Category:1968 births</a>? No, because not everything contained in <a href="/wiki/Category:Kylie_Minogue" title="Category:Kylie Minogue">Category:Kylie Minogue</a> was a person born in 1968—it only applies to the article of the same name, not the entire category. These eponymous categories are a solution to this problem, and although they may be annoying or perplexing to some users, they do serve a purpose to readers and editors. <a href="/wiki/User:Good_Olfactory" title="User:Good Olfactory">Good Ol’factory</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Good_Olfactory" title="User talk:Good Olfactory">(talk)</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2010_August_12#c-Good_Olfactory-2010-08-12T22:18:00.000Z-Category:Eponymous_categories" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:18, 12 August 2010 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li></ul> <dl><dd><ul><li>Hmmm, I can see Kylie Minogue is a bit of a glitch. Obliously it will not go in all the related categories and if it is put in <a href="/w/index.php?title=Category:Australian_female_singers&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category:Australian female singers (page does not exist)">Category:Australian female singers</a> it will stick out like a sore thumb. Note that <a href="/wiki/Category:Buddy_Holly" title="Category:Buddy Holly">Category:Buddy Holly</a> by way of example is in <a href="/wiki/Category:Rockabilly_musicians" title="Category:Rockabilly musicians">Category:Rockabilly musicians</a>. -- <a href="/wiki/User:Alan_Liefting" title="User:Alan Liefting">Alan Liefting</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Alan_Liefting" title="User talk:Alan Liefting">talk</a>) - <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2010_August_12#c-Alan_Liefting-2010-08-12T23:24:00.000Z-Good_Olfactory-2010-08-12T22:18:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:24, 12 August 2010 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li></ul> <dl><dd><ul><li>The argument is that the Minogue one is done properly and the Holly one is done improperly, hence the need for these categories to provide a home for eponymous categories of the same type. <a href="/wiki/User:Good_Olfactory" title="User:Good Olfactory">Good Ol’factory</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Good_Olfactory" title="User talk:Good Olfactory">(talk)</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2010_August_12#c-Good_Olfactory-2010-08-13T00:31:00.000Z-Alan_Liefting-2010-08-12T23:24:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:31, 13 August 2010 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li></ul> <dl><dd><ul><li>If I understand your point correctly, you are saying that getting rid of the CnaKM cat and moving all KM article cats to a KM category would result in a wrong overcats to subcats (such as year of birth to a subcat of songs written by...). It has a merit. On the other hand, from a category navigator perspective, if you have a Category:French musicians and in it you have only the article KM, and not her category, there is no link between that category and the songs written by KM category, unless one creates <a href="/w/index.php?title=Category:Songs_by_French_musicians&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category:Songs by French musicians (page does not exist)">Category:Songs by French musicians</a>. Second, the category system is already full of such problems. Let's take one of the categoris of the KM article, <a href="/wiki/Category:Grammy_Award_winners" title="Category:Grammy Award winners">Category:Grammy Award winners</a>. Winners are people - but if you look up, they are also assigned to Category:Grammy Awards (but they are not awards...), and if you go high enough, they are parts of Category:Members of the North Atlantic Treaty Organization and so on :) We should accept that if you go up the levels of categories, think become part of the big picture, which is not necessarily correct for all articles categorized x-levels underneath. Unless somebody can fix the entire system, having eponymous categories only makes things more confusing. As long as Grammy Winners are Members of the NATO, I see no reason why her songs cannot have a year of birth :) --<a href="/wiki/User:Piotrus" title="User:Piotrus">Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus</a>|<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Piotrus" title="User talk:Piotrus"> talk </a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2010_August_12#c-Piotrus-2010-08-14T16:39:00.000Z-Good_Olfactory-2010-08-13T00:31:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:39, 14 August 2010 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li></ul></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <ul><li>Keep per patient explanations of Occuli & Good Olfactory -- one of whom will hopefully recall a previous very similar CFD discussion (perhaps 1-1/2 years back) that I would have sworn was for this category but doesn't show in the edit history, so I guess it must have been for another related category (probably one of the sub-cats). Btw, am I missing something or is there really a good reason for <a href="/wiki/Category:Hemp" title="Category:Hemp">Category:Hemp</a>, <a href="/wiki/Category:Wood" title="Category:Wood">Category:Wood</a>, and <a href="/wiki/Category:Oil_palm" title="Category:Oil palm">Category:Oil palm</a> to be listed here? <a href="/wiki/User:Cgingold" title="User:Cgingold">Cgingold</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Cgingold" title="User talk:Cgingold">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2010_August_12#c-Cgingold-2010-08-12T22:36:00.000Z-Category:Eponymous_categories" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:36, 12 August 2010 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li></ul> <dl><dd><dl><dd><ul><li>Just to clarify: the CFD I'm referring to was much more recent than the one mentioned immediately below by Cow of Pain. <a href="/wiki/User:Cgingold" title="User:Cgingold">Cgingold</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Cgingold" title="User talk:Cgingold">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2010_August_12#c-Cgingold-2010-08-12T23:51:00.000Z-Cgingold-2010-08-12T22:36:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:51, 12 August 2010 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li></ul></dd></dl> <ul><li>Upmerge all - I believe you mean <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_November_4#Eponymous_categories_and_similar_subcategories" title="Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2007 November 4">this discussion</a> which was indeed about several of these. The only reason for keeping any <a href="/w/index.php?title=Category:Categories_named_after_Foo&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category:Categories named after Foo (page does not exist)">Category:Categories named after Foo</a> is to keep eponymous categories out of <a href="/w/index.php?title=Category:Foos&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category:Foos (page does not exist)">Category:Foos</a>. I'm not really not seeing why these need to be separate structures and what's so awful about having categories named for Foos in the Foos category. Just taking one example, <a href="/wiki/Category:Falkland_Islands" title="Category:Falkland Islands">Category:Falkland Islands</a>, it's parented in <a href="/w/index.php?title=Category:Categories_named_after_islands&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category:Categories named after islands (page does not exist)">Category:Categories named after islands</a> but it's also parented in <a href="/w/index.php?title=Category:Archipelagoes_in_the_Atlantic_Ocean&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category:Archipelagoes in the Atlantic Ocean (page does not exist)">Category:Archipelagoes in the Atlantic Ocean</a>, <a href="/wiki/Category:Disputed_islands" title="Category:Disputed islands">Category:Disputed islands</a>, <a href="/wiki/Category:British_Overseas_Territories" title="Category:British Overseas Territories">Category:British Overseas Territories</a>, <a href="/wiki/Category:Special_territories_of_the_European_Union" title="Category:Special territories of the European Union">Category:Special territories of the European Union</a>, <a href="/w/index.php?title=Category:Sub-Antarctic_islands&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category:Sub-Antarctic islands (page does not exist)">Category:Sub-Antarctic islands</a> and <a href="/wiki/Category:Dependent_territories_in_South_America" title="Category:Dependent territories in South America">Category:Dependent territories in South America</a>. There is nothing to be gained by parking it in a category that serves no purpose but to tell us that a category called "Falkland Islands" is named for an island, which, it's already right there in the name. As far as not wanting to put every eponymous category into every category that applies to its eponym, that may or may not be the case but any concerns about such categorization can be handled on a case-by-case basis without the existence of these categories. Would we want <a href="/wiki/Category:Kylie_Minogue" title="Category:Kylie Minogue">Category:Kylie Minogue</a> in <a href="/wiki/Category:1968_births" title="Category:1968 births">Category:1968 births</a>? Probably not, but wouldn't we want it in <a href="/wiki/Category:Australian_singers" title="Category:Australian singers">Category:Australian singers</a>? The argument that not everything in <a href="/wiki/Category:Kylie_Minogue" title="Category:Kylie Minogue">Category:Kylie Minogue</a> is Kylie Minogue is specious. The <a href="/wiki/Chicago_Annenberg_Challenge" title="Chicago Annenberg Challenge">Chicago Annenberg Challenge</a> isn't a 21st Century American President but no one seems to be taking issue with its being a level down in that category through its inclusion in <a href="/wiki/Category:Barack_Obama" title="Category:Barack Obama">Category:Barack Obama</a>. By that logic <a href="/wiki/Category:Kylie_Minogue_albums" title="Category:Kylie Minogue albums">Category:Kylie Minogue albums</a> shouldn't be parented in <a href="/wiki/Category:Kylie_Minogue" title="Category:Kylie Minogue">Category:Kylie Minogue</a> because an album is not a person, the only thing that should be in the category is Kylie herself because she's the only thing that is Kylie and <a href="/wiki/Category:Kylie_Minogue" title="Category:Kylie Minogue">Category:Kylie Minogue</a> shouldn't be in <a href="/w/index.php?title=Category:Categories_named_after_musicians&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category:Categories named after musicians (page does not exist)">Category:Categories named after musicians</a> because not everything in it is a category named for a musician. <a href="/wiki/User:Are_You_The_Cow_Of_Pain%3F" title="User:Are You The Cow Of Pain?">Are You The Cow Of Pain?</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Are_You_The_Cow_Of_Pain%3F" title="User talk:Are You The Cow Of Pain?">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2010_August_12#c-Are_You_The_Cow_Of_Pain?-2010-08-12T23:18:00.000Z-Cgingold-2010-08-12T22:36:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:18, 12 August 2010 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li></ul></dd></dl> <dl><dd><ul><li><a href="/wiki/Category:Hemp" title="Category:Hemp">Category:Hemp</a>, <a href="/wiki/Category:Wood" title="Category:Wood">Category:Wood</a>, and <a href="/wiki/Category:Oil_palm" title="Category:Oil palm">Category:Oil palm</a> highligh the fact that the parent category does not have a subcat for proper names. To make this parent category useful there are 1000s of eponymous categories that will need categorising under it. I feel that to do this would be a fruitless exercise and may encounter opposition from other editors. -- <a href="/wiki/User:Alan_Liefting" title="User:Alan Liefting">Alan Liefting</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Alan_Liefting" title="User talk:Alan Liefting">talk</a>) - <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2010_August_12#c-Alan_Liefting-2010-08-12T23:24:00.000Z-Cgingold-2010-08-12T22:36:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:24, 12 August 2010 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li></ul></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd><ul><li>The few categories such as <a href="/wiki/Category:Hemp" title="Category:Hemp">Category:Hemp</a> etc highlight the fact that few editors think it useful to categorise all eponymous categories as such (unlike the ones that have been so categorised in numbers in subcats). The similar one was perhaps <a href="/w/index.php?title=Category:Categories_named_after_criminals&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category:Categories named after criminals (page does not exist)">Category:Categories named after criminals</a> which was merged (ludicrously) in <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2009_March_25#Category:Categories_named_after_criminals" title="Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2009 March 25">this cfd</a>. The Bovine Query seems to have absorbed Otto4711's misunderstandings of the category system almost word for word. <a href="/wiki/Category:Kylie_Minogue" title="Category:Kylie Minogue">Category:Kylie Minogue</a> is for articles related to KM: some are albums, some are songs, some are images, hardly any were born in 1968, hardly any were Australian. <a href="/wiki/Barack_Obama" title="Barack Obama">Barack Obama</a> is a 21st century president, but <a href="/wiki/Category:Barack_Obama" title="Category:Barack Obama">Category:Barack Obama</a> should not be parented by <a href="/wiki/Category:21st-century_presidents_of_the_United_States" title="Category:21st-century presidents of the United States">Category:21st-century presidents of the United States</a> as this is a list category which should contain 3 articles and no subcats. (There are thousands of incorrect category inclusions throughout category space. I take issue with some of them and am often reverted.) <a href="/wiki/User:Occuli" class="mw-redirect" title="User:Occuli">Occuli</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Occuli" class="mw-redirect" title="User talk:Occuli">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2010_August_12#c-Occuli-2010-08-12T23:58:00.000Z-Alan_Liefting-2010-08-12T23:24:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:58, 12 August 2010 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li></ul></dd></dl></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><ul><li>Can you show me where it's written that <a href="/wiki/Category:21st-century_presidents_of_the_United_States" title="Category:21st-century presidents of the United States">Category:21st-century presidents of the United States</a> is a "list category" (whatever that even means, since categories are not lists, lists are not categories, and categories for lists are generally called <a href="/w/index.php?title=Category:Lists_of_Foos&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category:Lists of Foos (page does not exist)">Category:Lists of Foos</a>) and that it shall contain no sub-categories? Upon whose authority are you basing this decree? Is Barack Obama somehow less closely associated with the Presidency of the United States in the 21st Century than <a href="/wiki/The_Loco-Motion" title="The Loco-Motion">The Loco-Motion</a> is with Kylie Minogue? The contents of the KM sub-categories are associated with <a href="/w/index.php?title=Category:Australian_female_singers&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category:Australian female singers (page does not exist)">Category:Australian female singers</a> by their association with KM. Every single article that has a grandparent category does not need to be categorizable directly in the grandparent as well as the parent. <a href="/wiki/User:Are_You_The_Cow_Of_Pain%3F" title="User:Are You The Cow Of Pain?">Are You The Cow Of Pain?</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Are_You_The_Cow_Of_Pain%3F" title="User talk:Are You The Cow Of Pain?">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2010_August_12#c-Are_You_The_Cow_Of_Pain?-2010-08-14T23:05:00.000Z-Occuli-2010-08-12T23:58:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:05, 14 August 2010 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li></ul></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd>>Can you show me where it's written that <a href="/wiki/Category:21st-century_presidents_of_the_United_States" title="Category:21st-century presidents of the United States">Category:21st-century presidents of the United States</a> is a "list category"</dd> <dd>According to the naming convention in <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:CAT#The_category_system" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:CAT">WP:CAT#The category system</a>, the plural "presidents" indicates that the category is a "set category". There was a <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:CAT" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:CAT">WP:CAT</a> discussion some time ago where most people seemed to use the term "list category" to mean what the guideline calls a "set category", which is defined as only the presidents themselves, not other subjects that are related to them.</dd> <dd>>Every single article that has a grandparent category does not need to be categorizable directly in the grandparent as well as the parent.</dd> <dd>That depends on how you define the word "category". WP:CAT defines two kinds of "categories", and the "set" type is defined more narrowly than what you've been talking about.</dd> <dd>—<a href="/wiki/User:Codrdan" class="mw-redirect" title="User:Codrdan">Codrdan</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Codrdan" class="mw-redirect" title="User talk:Codrdan">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2010_August_12#c-Codrdan-2010-08-15T00:34:00.000Z-Are_You_The_Cow_Of_Pain?-2010-08-14T23:05:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:34, 15 August 2010 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><ul><li>Well, the only reason one could possibly call <a href="/wiki/Category:Hemp" title="Category:Hemp">Category:Hemp</a> "eponymous" is because "hemp" doesn't take a plural form, which I suppose is why <a href="/wiki/Category:Cats" title="Category:Cats">Category:Cats</a> cannot be called "eponymous" even though "cat" and "hemp" are both garden variety nouns. Therefore <a href="/wiki/Category:Cotton" title="Category:Cotton">Category:Cotton</a>, <a href="/wiki/Category:Jute" title="Category:Jute">Category:Jute</a>, and <a href="/wiki/Category:Coal" title="Category:Coal">Category:Coal</a> should also be tagged as eponymous, as well as <a href="/wiki/Category:Sheep" title="Category:Sheep">Category:Sheep</a> but not <a href="/wiki/Category:Dogs" title="Category:Dogs">Category:Dogs</a>. I can hardly imagine that "eponymous" should be intended to indicate a mere grammatical/usage quirk. And if we don't care about the plural form, then essentially every category fits, or at least all those with a parent article of the same name. None of this mitigates the issue that every category about a particular film is eponymous, or about a particular book, or about a person, or about anything else that has a name. <a href="/wiki/User:Mangoe" title="User:Mangoe">Mangoe</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Mangoe" title="User talk:Mangoe">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2010_August_12#c-Mangoe-2010-08-13T00:37:00.000Z-Occuli-2010-08-12T23:58:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:37, 13 August 2010 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li></ul> <dl><dd><ul><li>Those odd-ball categories referred to by Cgingold were recently added to <a href="/wiki/Category:Eponymous_categories" title="Category:Eponymous categories">Category:Eponymous categories</a> by Vegaswikian. Why don't we just ask him why he added them? <a href="/wiki/User:Good_Olfactory" title="User:Good Olfactory">Good Ol’factory</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Good_Olfactory" title="User talk:Good Olfactory">(talk)</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2010_August_12#c-Good_Olfactory-2010-08-13T00:38:00.000Z-Mangoe-2010-08-13T00:37:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:38, 13 August 2010 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li></ul> <dl><dd><ul><li>Well they were added after reviewing <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Categorization#Eponymous_categories" title="Wikipedia:Categorization">Wikipedia:Categorization#Eponymous categories</a>. The question arises as to whether eponymous categories should be placed in (made subcategories of) the categories which their corresponding articles belong to. Logically they usually should not (for example, France belongs to Category:European countries, but Category:France does not constitute a subset of European countries). However, by convention, many categories do contain their articles' eponymous categories as subcategories, even though they are not "true" subcategories. In any case, an article should not be excluded from any set category on the grounds that its eponymous category is made a "subcategory" of that category. As far as I know most of those are not set categories. Based on this, eponymous categories provide a logical home for categories that don't belong in other parents since they fail under When making one category a subcategory of another, ensure that the members of the first really can be expected (with possibly a few exceptions) to belong to the second also. When categories contain vastly different contents related to the eponymous name, they really don't have a good parent under the guideline. So they should be simply an eponymous category. Using the hemp category as an example, when you have people, legislation, products, raw material, festivals, diseases, workers, museums and vehicles, there are no categories that really cover all of that, so the only reasonable parent is something in the eponymous tree. <a href="/wiki/User:Vegaswikian" title="User:Vegaswikian">Vegaswikian</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Vegaswikian" title="User talk:Vegaswikian">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2010_August_12#c-Vegaswikian-2010-08-13T19:55:00.000Z-Good_Olfactory-2010-08-13T00:38:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:55, 13 August 2010 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li></ul> <dl><dd><ul><li>The only problem with the argument made in the guideline is that the very example it gives, of <a href="/wiki/Category:France" title="Category:France">Category: France</a>, violates the principle it wishes to establish! And I didn't check them all, but it seems fairly safe that there is a category for every European country in <a href="/wiki/Category:European_countries" title="Category:European countries">Category: European countries</a>. This would imply that the rule hidden inside the guideline-- that any page which is a member of a category must also properly be a member of any supercategory of that category-- is not generally accepted. It looks to me as though the rule that actually is being followed is: "A category should be a subcategory of any category of which its parent article is a member." Insofar as such a rule is observed, there's no use for a separate hierarchy of eponymic categories. <a href="/wiki/User:Mangoe" title="User:Mangoe">Mangoe</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Mangoe" title="User talk:Mangoe">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2010_August_12#c-Mangoe-2010-08-13T20:56:00.000Z-Vegaswikian-2010-08-13T19:55:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:56, 13 August 2010 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li></ul> <dl><dd><ul><li>And the problem with your position of inclusion is that we would be including multitudes of articles into incorrect article trees. Take the case of a category where one entry is a film and the other 99 articles are about albums and tours and people. Why would it be considered correct to place those 99 categories into films that don't belong in to this tree? Better to under categorize then to over categorize. <a href="/wiki/User:Vegaswikian" title="User:Vegaswikian">Vegaswikian</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Vegaswikian" title="User talk:Vegaswikian">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2010_August_12#c-Vegaswikian-2010-08-14T01:21:00.000Z-Mangoe-2010-08-13T20:56:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:21, 14 August 2010 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li></ul> <dl><dd><ul><li>It's not necessarily my position; what it does seem to be is a lot of other people's position. What I sense is that there are conflicting theories: a top-down theory, in which subcategories are diffused from a single master category, and thus the subcategories inherit membership from higher up; and a article-like theory, in which the subcategories inherit membership from their parent articles. <a href="/wiki/User:Mangoe" title="User:Mangoe">Mangoe</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Mangoe" title="User talk:Mangoe">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2010_August_12#c-Mangoe-2010-08-14T03:29:00.000Z-Vegaswikian-2010-08-14T01:21:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">03:29, 14 August 2010 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li></ul></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <ul><li>Delete all this is pure self reference; why would anyone look for this in the real world outside the wiki? "Oh, I see that so-and-so has a category named after him/her, I wonder who else in Wikipedia is so honored." Why not a category for biographies of less than a certain size so we can see who Wikipedia honors with real content and which are merely "he/she exists/-ed" Puh-lease. <a href="/wiki/User:Carlossuarez46" title="User:Carlossuarez46">Carlossuarez46</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Carlossuarez46" title="User talk:Carlossuarez46">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2010_August_12#c-Carlossuarez46-2010-08-13T00:52:00.000Z-Category:Eponymous_categories" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:52, 13 August 2010 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <ul><li>I think Carlos's point above is relevant. I have noticed that often more inexperienced users will create an eponymous category for an individual not because the content warrants it, but because they say something like, "well, I saw XXXX had a category, so I thought that surely YYYY should have one too." It's a real problem with these. <a href="/wiki/User:Good_Olfactory" title="User:Good Olfactory">Good Ol’factory</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Good_Olfactory" title="User talk:Good Olfactory">(talk)</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2010_August_12#c-Good_Olfactory-2010-08-13T01:06:00.000Z-Carlossuarez46-2010-08-13T00:52:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:06, 13 August 2010 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li></ul></li></ul> <ul><li><s>Delete all, but properly categorize the contents first I gave this some thought, and I admit I also don't see the point except for usefulness to CfD, and I think we can get by without these. For most other purposes, a category about a mountain range can just go under the particular "by continent" category, and a category about a musician can just go under the "by nationality" category. <a href="/wiki/Category:Kylie_Minogue" title="Category:Kylie Minogue">Category:Kylie Minogue</a> suggests some of the categories are not under their obvious parents, so we'll need to make sure they all get to the right homes if we go this route.</s>--<a href="/wiki/User:Mike_Selinker" title="User:Mike Selinker">Mike Selinker</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Mike_Selinker" title="User talk:Mike Selinker">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2010_August_12#c-Mike_Selinker-2010-08-13T15:55:00.000Z-Category:Eponymous_categories" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:55, 13 August 2010 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <ul><li>Yeah, I'm a hypocrite. Three years ago, in the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_November_4#Eponymous_categories_and_similar_subcategories" title="Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2007 November 4">same type of nomination</a>, I wrote: "Keep. The ability to go through these types of categories is highly useful for me, especially when we're doing things like subcategorizing Category:Musicians by band. It would be harder to do such things without these, so I'd like them to stay." So I used them for their utility, and it makes no sense for me to argue that other editors should not. I'm withdrawing my comment from before.--<a href="/wiki/User:Mike_Selinker" title="User:Mike Selinker">Mike Selinker</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Mike_Selinker" title="User talk:Mike Selinker">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2010_August_12#c-Mike_Selinker-2010-08-14T08:49:00.000Z-Mike_Selinker-2010-08-13T15:55:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">08:49, 14 August 2010 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li></ul></li></ul> <ul><li><ul><li><ul><li>The ones of interest could be listified and put in project or user namespace. -- <a href="/wiki/User:Alan_Liefting" title="User:Alan Liefting">Alan Liefting</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Alan_Liefting" title="User talk:Alan Liefting">talk</a>) - <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2010_August_12#c-Alan_Liefting-2010-08-20T09:17:00.000Z-Mike_Selinker-2010-08-14T08:49:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">09:17, 20 August 2010 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li></ul></li></ul></li></ul> <dl><dt>What exactly is an eponymous category</dt></dl> Further thinking on this has prompted me to conclude that essentially all categories are in some sense eponymous. Would anyone else like to explain what they think differentiates an eponymous category from some other category? <a href="/wiki/User:Mangoe" title="User:Mangoe">Mangoe</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Mangoe" title="User talk:Mangoe">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2010_August_12#c-Mangoe-2010-08-13T15:31:00.000Z-Category:Eponymous_categories" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:31, 13 August 2010 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>An eponymous category is a category of articles connected with some topic (where that topic has an article; the categories are called "eponymous" because they tend to have the same name as the article). The other kind are categories of articles about a certain kind of thing. So <a href="/wiki/Category:France" title="Category:France">Category:France</a> is eponymous, <a href="/wiki/Category:French_actors" title="Category:French actors">Category:French actors</a> is not. --<a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Kotniski&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Kotniski (page does not exist)">Kotniski</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Kotniski" title="User talk:Kotniski">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2010_August_12#c-Kotniski-2010-08-14T17:02:00.000Z-Mangoe-2010-08-13T15:31:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:02, 14 August 2010 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl> <ul><li>Delete all - try as I might, I can't see any obvious use for these. When does it help to know a category is 'eponymous'? <a href="/wiki/User:Robofish" title="User:Robofish">Robofish</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Robofish" title="User talk:Robofish">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2010_August_12#c-Robofish-2010-08-13T18:58:00.000Z-Mangoe-2010-08-13T15:31:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:58, 13 August 2010 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li> <li>Keep All as an effective means of organizing this structure. <a href="/wiki/User:Alansohn" title="User:Alansohn">Alansohn</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Alansohn" title="User talk:Alansohn">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2010_August_12#c-Alansohn-2010-08-13T23:17:00.000Z-Mangoe-2010-08-13T15:31:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:17, 13 August 2010 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li> <li>Delete. But what to do, for example, with <a href="/wiki/Category:Boeing" title="Category:Boeing">Category:Boeing</a> - which at this point is categorized only as <a href="/w/index.php?title=Category:Categories_named_after_vehicle_manufacturing_companies_of_the_United_States&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category:Categories named after vehicle manufacturing companies of the United States (page does not exist)">Category:Categories named after vehicle manufacturing companies of the United States</a> (! - also I note that this cat is not listed for deletion; it should be (tree level too far down?)). Presumably, recategorize Boening to whatever categories are present in <a href="/wiki/Boeing" title="Boeing">Boeing</a>, right? Anyway, I blame existence of eponymous categories for this problem; in a proper system, Cat:Boeing would be connected to correct over cats (type of company, etc.). --<a href="/wiki/User:Piotrus" title="User:Piotrus">Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus</a>|<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Piotrus" title="User talk:Piotrus"> talk </a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2010_August_12#c-Piotrus-2010-08-14T16:11:00.000Z-Mangoe-2010-08-13T15:31:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:11, 14 August 2010 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li></ul> <dl><dd><ul><li><a href="/w/index.php?title=Category:Categories_named_after_vehicle_manufacturing_companies_of_the_United_States&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category:Categories named after vehicle manufacturing companies of the United States (page does not exist)">Category:Categories named after vehicle manufacturing companies of the United States</a> is now added to the list. -- <a href="/wiki/User:Alan_Liefting" title="User:Alan Liefting">Alan Liefting</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Alan_Liefting" title="User talk:Alan Liefting">talk</a>) - <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2010_August_12#c-Alan_Liefting-2010-08-15T06:07:00.000Z-Piotrus-2010-08-14T16:11:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">06:07, 15 August 2010 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li></ul></dd></dl> <ul><li>Keep - unless someone has a better way of organizing these. (Certain individual ones might be redundant, I suppose.)--<a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Kotniski&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Kotniski (page does not exist)">Kotniski</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Kotniski" title="User talk:Kotniski">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2010_August_12#c-Kotniski-2010-08-14T17:02:00.000Z-Mangoe-2010-08-13T15:31:00.000Z-1" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:02, 14 August 2010 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li></ul> <dl><dd><ul><li>The better way to organize them would be to place relevant categories in appropriate parents and not group them just because they happened to be named for a particular thing or person. Categories in the vast majority of instances should be about the person/thing/concept being categorized, not a characteristic of the category itself. Everyone seems to agree that we shouldn't have categories like <a href="/w/index.php?title=Category:Schools_named_after_George_Washington&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category:Schools named after George Washington (page does not exist)">Category:Schools named after George Washington</a> or <a href="/w/index.php?title=Category:Airports_named_after_presidents&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category:Airports named after presidents (page does not exist)">Category:Airports named after presidents</a> or <a href="/w/index.php?title=Category:Chemical_elements_named_after_scientists&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category:Chemical elements named after scientists (page does not exist)">Category:Chemical elements named after scientists</a> so how is <a href="/wiki/Category:Categories_named_after_people" title="Category:Categories named after people">Category:Categories named after people</a> any different? If "named after Foo" is not defining of anything else, why is it defining of categories? <a href="/wiki/User:Are_You_The_Cow_Of_Pain%3F" title="User:Are You The Cow Of Pain?">Are You The Cow Of Pain?</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Are_You_The_Cow_Of_Pain%3F" title="User talk:Are You The Cow Of Pain?">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2010_August_12#c-Are_You_The_Cow_Of_Pain?-2010-08-14T20:22:00.000Z-Kotniski-2010-08-14T17:02:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:22, 14 August 2010 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li></ul></dd></dl> <ul><li>Change "Categories named after Xs" to "X topics" or "Topics based on Xs": See <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Categorization#Topics_and_eponymous_categories:_confusion_due_to_poor_explanation" title="Wikipedia talk:Categorization">this discussion</a> for reference. A regular category contains only articles about things that share some defining property. For example, <a href="/wiki/Bermuda" title="Bermuda">Bermuda</a> is a member of <a href="/wiki/Category:Island_countries" title="Category:Island countries">Category:Island countries</a> and <a href="/w/index.php?title=Category:Islands_in_the_North_Atlantic&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category:Islands in the North Atlantic (page does not exist)">Category:Islands in the North Atlantic</a>, because Bermuda is a North Atlantic island country. But Bermuda is notable in and of itself, so there's a <a href="/wiki/Category:Bermuda" title="Category:Bermuda">Category:Bermuda</a> that contains articles about the history, government, geography, and other aspects of Bermuda. These articles are about history, government, and geography, so they can't be members of a category that contains only islands. The articles are related to the topic of Bermuda, but being related to an island isn't the same thing as actually being an island. —<a href="/wiki/User:Codrdan" class="mw-redirect" title="User:Codrdan">Codrdan</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Codrdan" class="mw-redirect" title="User talk:Codrdan">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2010_August_12#c-Codrdan-2010-08-14T20:41:00.000Z-Mangoe-2010-08-13T15:31:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:41, 14 August 2010 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li></ul> <dl><dd><ul><li>By this reasoning <a href="/wiki/Category:United_States" title="Category:United States">Category:United States</a> can't be in <a href="/w/index.php?title=Category:Northern_American_countries&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category:Northern American countries (page does not exist)">Category:Northern American countries</a> because it contains sub-categories US law, American people and the like. The idea that an island category can't be categorized as an island because it contains articles and sub-cats that aren't specifically about the land mass would taken to its logical extreme cripple our ability to categorize across a huge range of subjects. There's absolutely no reason why <a href="/wiki/Category:Bermuda" title="Category:Bermuda">Category:Bermuda</a> can't be directly in <a href="/wiki/Category:Island_countries" title="Category:Island countries">Category:Island countries</a> just because it contains articles that aren't about physical aspects of the island itself. <a href="/wiki/User:Are_You_The_Cow_Of_Pain%3F" title="User:Are You The Cow Of Pain?">Are You The Cow Of Pain?</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Are_You_The_Cow_Of_Pain%3F" title="User talk:Are You The Cow Of Pain?">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2010_August_12#c-Are_You_The_Cow_Of_Pain?-2010-08-14T20:57:00.000Z-Codrdan-2010-08-14T20:41:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:57, 14 August 2010 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li></ul></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd>><a href="/wiki/Category:United_States" title="Category:United States">Category:United States</a> can't be in <a href="/w/index.php?title=Category:Northern_American_countries&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category:Northern American countries (page does not exist)">Category:Northern American countries</a></dd> <dd>Exactly. <a href="/wiki/Category:European_countries" title="Category:European countries">Category:European countries</a> has the same problem.</dd> <dd>>The idea that an island category can't be categorized as an island ... would ... cripple our ability to categorize</dd> <dd>We don't really want a category system, we want a navigation system. Categories are only part of that; the other part is topics. This whole discussion is based on a confusion between categories and topics. In addition to <a href="/wiki/Category:Islands" title="Category:Islands">Category:Islands</a> for island articles, there should be something like <a href="/w/index.php?title=Topic:Islands&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Topic:Islands (page does not exist)">Topic:Islands</a> or <a href="/w/index.php?title=Category:Island_topics&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category:Island topics (page does not exist)">Category:Island topics</a> for articles about other subjects that are related to islands.</dd> <dd>—<a href="/wiki/User:Codrdan" class="mw-redirect" title="User:Codrdan">Codrdan</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Codrdan" class="mw-redirect" title="User talk:Codrdan">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2010_August_12#c-Codrdan-2010-08-14T21:54:00.000Z-Are_You_The_Cow_Of_Pain?-2010-08-14T20:57:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:54, 14 August 2010 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd>But that's exactly it. It's not a problem that categories named after countries in Europe are categorized as European countries. The idea that they can't be directly categorized there because two or three or four levels down in the category system there are articles that are about various aspects of the countries is just profoundly and unconscionably silly. It is no barrier to navigation to have <a href="/wiki/Category:Bermuda" title="Category:Bermuda">Category:Bermuda</a> directly in <a href="/wiki/Category:Island_countries" title="Category:Island countries">Category:Island countries</a>. Certainly you would not put the article <a href="/wiki/Bermuda_shorts" title="Bermuda shorts">Bermuda shorts</a> directly in <a href="/wiki/Category:Island_countries" title="Category:Island countries">Category:Island countries</a> but the presence of that article in <a href="/wiki/Category:Bermuda" title="Category:Bermuda">Category:Bermuda</a> is not a barrier to placing that category directly into its logical parent. I agree that we want a navigation system and the current building block that we have for navigating in this fashion is categories. Categorizing on the basis of what categories are named after does not aid in navigation especially if its basis is the counter-intuitive "related articles down the category tree demand uprooting from logical parents". Whether there should or shouldn't be a <a href="/w/index.php?title=Topic:Foos&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Topic:Foos (page does not exist)">Topic:Foos</a> navigation scheme in place is not relevant to the discussion because for now there isn't and there can't be. Ultimately every category is named after something. <a href="/wiki/User:Are_You_The_Cow_Of_Pain%3F" title="User:Are You The Cow Of Pain?">Are You The Cow Of Pain?</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Are_You_The_Cow_Of_Pain%3F" title="User talk:Are You The Cow Of Pain?">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2010_August_12#c-Are_You_The_Cow_Of_Pain?-2010-08-14T22:49:00.000Z-Codrdan-2010-08-14T21:54:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:49, 14 August 2010 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd>>It's not a problem that categories named after countries in Europe are categorized as European countries.</dd> <dd>I don't think the word "category" is defined that broadly. The way you're using it, "category" and "topic" are basically synonyms.</dd> <dd>The idea ... is just profoundly and unconscionably silly. </dd> <dd>This entire conversation is silly if we're going to throw words around without agreeing on their meaning. I define "category" more narrowly as only things that share a defining property. Whatever terminology we use, we need to distinguish between (a) sets of things that share a property and (b) other things that are more generally related.</dd> <dd>>Categorizing on the basis of what categories are named after does not aid in navigation</dd> <dd>You're right, those categories should be modified. General topic categories would be more useful. There should be an island-related "topic category" that would include everything that has anything to do with islands, in addition to a "set category" of only the islands themselves. Island-related topics would be a superset of Categories named after islands.</dd> <dd>>Whether there should or shouldn't be a Topic:Foos navigation scheme in place is not relevant to the discussion</dd> <dd>No, of course not. That's a technical issue. But there needs to be some way to isolate sets of things sharing a specific property from subjects that are secondarily related to those things. It's not convenient for readers to have to wade through all sorts of island-related miscellany if all they want is articles about the islands themselves.</dd> <dd>—<a href="/wiki/User:Codrdan" class="mw-redirect" title="User:Codrdan">Codrdan</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Codrdan" class="mw-redirect" title="User talk:Codrdan">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2010_August_12#c-Codrdan-2010-08-15T00:14:00.000Z-Are_You_The_Cow_Of_Pain?-2010-08-14T22:49:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:14, 15 August 2010 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> Note - The related template is up for deletion at <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Templates_for_discussion/Log/2010_August_12#Template:Eponymous_category" title="Wikipedia:Templates for discussion/Log/2010 August 12">Wikipedia:Templates_for_discussion/Log/2010_August_12#Template:Eponymous_category</a>. -- <a href="/wiki/User:Alan_Liefting" title="User:Alan Liefting">Alan Liefting</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Alan_Liefting" title="User talk:Alan Liefting">talk</a>) - <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2010_August_12#c-Alan_Liefting-2010-08-14T23:30:00.000Z-Category:Eponymous_categories" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:30, 14 August 2010 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <ul><li>Keep Some might be redundant and unnecessary, but others are quite useful. <a href="/w/index.php?title=Category:Categories_named_after_anime_and_manga_series&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category:Categories named after anime and manga series (page does not exist)">Category:Categories_named_after_anime_and_manga_series</a> list all the many categories that are related to the various anime and manga series. You don't find that listed anywhere else. <a href="/wiki/Category:Anime_series" title="Category:Anime series">Category:Anime series</a> only list the individual anime series, not all the articles related to them. If you want to find every article concerning anime and manga at all, the only way to do that is to use <a href="/w/index.php?title=Category:Categories_named_after_anime_and_manga_series&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category:Categories named after anime and manga series (page does not exist)">Category:Categories_named_after_anime_and_manga_series</a>. I found it quite helpful for finding all the categories I needed to export content from over to the manga wikia. <a href="/wiki/User:Dream_Focus" title="User:Dream Focus"> Dream Focus</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2010_August_12#c-Dream_Focus-2010-08-18T20:16:00.000Z-Alan_Liefting-2010-08-14T23:30:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:16, 18 August 2010 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li></ul> <dl><dd><ul><li>You could have a <a href="/w/index.php?title=Category:Anime_and_manga_series&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category:Anime and manga series (page does not exist)">Category:Anime_and_manga_series</a>. -- <a href="/wiki/User:Alan_Liefting" title="User:Alan Liefting">Alan Liefting</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Alan_Liefting" title="User talk:Alan Liefting">talk</a>) - <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2010_August_12#c-Alan_Liefting-2010-08-19T06:47:00.000Z-Dream_Focus-2010-08-18T20:16:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">06:47, 19 August 2010 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li></ul></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd><ul><li><s>The overall category should be called <a href="/wiki/Category:Anime_and_manga" title="Category:Anime and manga">Category:Anime and manga</a>.</s> I created <a href="/w/index.php?title=Category:Japanese_pop_art&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category:Japanese pop art (page does not exist)">Category:Japanese pop art</a> to hold overall anime and manga categories. Assuming "series" is intended to be plural here, a category whose name ends in "series" should contain only articles about the series themselves, not other related subjects as eponymous categories do. I would object to categories-of-categories on the basis of a guideline in <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:CAT#Categorizing_pages" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:CAT">WP:CAT#Categorizing pages</a>: "Categorize articles by characteristics of the topic, not characteristics of the article." It's not an exact fit, but maybe it should apply to all pages instead of just articles. —<a href="/wiki/User:Codrdan" class="mw-redirect" title="User:Codrdan">Codrdan</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Codrdan" class="mw-redirect" title="User talk:Codrdan">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2010_August_12#c-Codrdan-2010-08-19T08:20:00.000Z-Alan_Liefting-2010-08-19T06:47:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">08:20, 19 August 2010 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li></ul></dd></dl></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><ul><li>Completely oppose this. The current categorization of anime and manga articles is just fine. I've undone all of your re-categorizations because it was done without a discussion or gaining consensus. If you wish to empty out <a href="/wiki/Category:Anime" title="Category:Anime">Category:Anime</a> and <a href="/wiki/Category:Manga" title="Category:Manga">Category:Manga</a>, then you need to start a separate CfD and notify <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:ANIME" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:ANIME">WP:ANIME</a>. —<a href="/wiki/User:TheFarix" title="User:TheFarix">Farix</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:TheFarix" title="User talk:TheFarix">t</a> | <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/TheFarix" title="Special:Contributions/TheFarix">c</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2010_August_12#c-TheFarix-2010-08-19T12:06:00.000Z-Codrdan-2010-08-19T08:20:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">12:06, 19 August 2010 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li></ul></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><ul><li>>The current categorization of anime and manga articles is just fine. The current categorization of anime and manga articles is just plain wrong, and if you can't see that, you should do Wikipedia a favor and stay away from the category system altogether. There's already a consensus about how the category system should be organized, and the anime and manga articles obviously don't adhere to it. —<a href="/wiki/User:Codrdan" class="mw-redirect" title="User:Codrdan">Codrdan</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Codrdan" class="mw-redirect" title="User talk:Codrdan">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2010_August_12#c-Codrdan-2010-08-19T12:47:00.000Z-TheFarix-2010-08-19T12:06:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">12:47, 19 August 2010 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li></ul></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><ul><li>There is nothing "wrong" with how the anime and manga categories are organized. If you think they are wrong, then perhaps it is YOU who should stay way from the anime and manga category system altogether. —<a href="/wiki/User:TheFarix" title="User:TheFarix">Farix</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:TheFarix" title="User talk:TheFarix">t</a> | <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/TheFarix" title="Special:Contributions/TheFarix">c</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2010_August_12#c-TheFarix-2010-08-19T13:20:00.000Z-Codrdan-2010-08-19T12:47:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">13:20, 19 August 2010 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li></ul></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><ul><li>>There is nothing "wrong" with ... the anime and manga categories You have no idea what you're talking about. Please do us all a favor and ask about this on <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Categorization" title="Wikipedia talk:Categorization">Wikipedia talk:Categorization</a>. —<a href="/wiki/User:Codrdan" class="mw-redirect" title="User:Codrdan">Codrdan</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Codrdan" class="mw-redirect" title="User talk:Codrdan">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2010_August_12#c-Codrdan-2010-08-19T14:28:00.000Z-TheFarix-2010-08-19T13:20:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">14:28, 19 August 2010 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li></ul></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <ul><li>Keep per Above, this will impact alot of wikiprojects and a mass delete like this can only lead to a <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Warcraft_character_articles" title="Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Warcraft character articles">WP:Trainwreck</a>. - <a href="/wiki/User:Knowledgekid87" title="User:Knowledgekid87">Knowledgekid87</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Knowledgekid87" title="User talk:Knowledgekid87">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2010_August_12#c-Knowledgekid87-2010-08-18T20:50:00.000Z-Alan_Liefting-2010-08-14T23:30:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:50, 18 August 2010 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li></ul> <ul><li>Trainwreck in progress This mass nomination is simply bad, in part because the rational is so confusing, but also because not all of these categories are the same. Looking at <a href="/w/index.php?title=Categories_named_after_anime_and_manga_series&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Categories named after anime and manga series (page does not exist)">Categories named after anime and manga series</a>, I've noticed that it was inappropriately renamed from <a href="/w/index.php?title=Category:Anime_and_manga_series_categories&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category:Anime and manga series categories (page does not exist)">Category:Anime and manga series categories</a> without a discussion or consensus. Now it is wrapped up in this ill-conceived mass nomination. There may be a legitimate argument over the usefulness of a category holding all categories relating to specific anime and manga series, but, I don't think such an argument can be had in a discussion like this. —<a href="/wiki/User:TheFarix" title="User:TheFarix">Farix</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:TheFarix" title="User talk:TheFarix">t</a> | <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/TheFarix" title="Special:Contributions/TheFarix">c</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2010_August_12#c-TheFarix-2010-08-18T21:29:00.000Z-Alan_Liefting-2010-08-14T23:30:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:29, 18 August 2010 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li></ul> <dl><dd>Can anything like reverting be done to fix all of this and get a proper consensus done? I really feel like this is a huge mess. - <a href="/wiki/User:Knowledgekid87" title="User:Knowledgekid87">Knowledgekid87</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Knowledgekid87" title="User talk:Knowledgekid87">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2010_August_12#c-Knowledgekid87-2010-08-19T00:04:00.000Z-Alan_Liefting-2010-08-14T23:30:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:04, 19 August 2010 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd>What needs reverting? Nothing has been done yet. Whats wrong with trying to get a consensus here? -- <a href="/wiki/User:Alan_Liefting" title="User:Alan Liefting">Alan Liefting</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Alan_Liefting" title="User talk:Alan Liefting">talk</a>) - <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2010_August_12#c-Alan_Liefting-2010-08-19T06:47:00.000Z-Knowledgekid87-2010-08-19T00:04:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">06:47, 19 August 2010 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd>Some of the Categories were changed names without consensus and as for this deletion discussion there is so much up for deletion that so many discussions on what should and what should not be deleted are taking place at once here. - <a href="/wiki/User:Knowledgekid87" title="User:Knowledgekid87">Knowledgekid87</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Knowledgekid87" title="User talk:Knowledgekid87">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2010_August_12#c-Knowledgekid87-2010-08-19T15:19:00.000Z-Alan_Liefting-2010-08-19T06:47:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:19, 19 August 2010 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd>That is outside the scope of this CfD. Renaming to a category name that does not include "Categories named after" is fine by me. -- <a href="/wiki/User:Alan_Liefting" title="User:Alan Liefting">Alan Liefting</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Alan_Liefting" title="User talk:Alan Liefting">talk</a>) - <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2010_August_12#c-Alan_Liefting-2010-08-20T09:17:00.000Z-Knowledgekid87-2010-08-19T15:19:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">09:17, 20 August 2010 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <ul><li>*is confused* So ... we are talking about the set of all categories that contain themselves or the category of all sets that are named after themselves? And if so, why is which one an ontological issue? —<a href="/wiki/User:Quasirandom" title="User:Quasirandom">Quasirandom</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Quasirandom" title="User talk:Quasirandom">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2010_August_12#c-Quasirandom-2010-08-19T14:19:00.000Z-Alan_Liefting-2010-08-14T23:30:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">14:19, 19 August 2010 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li></ul> <dl><dd>This CfD is for all the categories with "Categories named after" in their name. -- <a href="/wiki/User:Alan_Liefting" title="User:Alan Liefting">Alan Liefting</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Alan_Liefting" title="User talk:Alan Liefting">talk</a>) - <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2010_August_12#c-Alan_Liefting-2010-08-20T09:17:00.000Z-Alan_Liefting-2010-08-14T23:30:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">09:17, 20 August 2010 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl> <ul><li>Comment - Just a heads up, there is a current discussion going on reguarding the deletion and possible renaming of the category: <a href="/w/index.php?title=Category:Categories_named_after_anime_and_manga_series&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category:Categories named after anime and manga series (page does not exist)">Category:Categories named after anime and manga series</a> the discussion can be found here: <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Anime_and_manga#Anime-and-manga_pages_are_miscategorized" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Anime and manga">Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Anime and manga#Anime-and-manga pages are miscategorized</a>. - <a href="/wiki/User:Knowledgekid87" title="User:Knowledgekid87">Knowledgekid87</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Knowledgekid87" title="User talk:Knowledgekid87">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2010_August_12#c-Knowledgekid87-2010-08-19T16:38:00.000Z-Alan_Liefting-2010-08-14T23:30:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:38, 19 August 2010 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li></ul> <ul><li>Keep/Oppose/Don't do - Per many good arguments above, Mike Selinker's in particular. - <a href="/wiki/User:Jc37" title="User:Jc37">jc37</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2010_August_12#c-Jc37-2010-08-19T21:37:00.000Z-Alan_Liefting-2010-08-14T23:30:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:37, 19 August 2010 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li></ul> <dl><dd>The ones of interest could be listified and put in project or user namespace. -- <a href="/wiki/User:Alan_Liefting" title="User:Alan Liefting">Alan Liefting</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Alan_Liefting" title="User talk:Alan Liefting">talk</a>) - <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2010_August_12#c-Alan_Liefting-2010-08-20T09:17:00.000Z-Alan_Liefting-2010-08-14T23:30:00.000Z-1" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">09:17, 20 August 2010 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd>Alsn I agree that some of these should most likely go, just be sure they do not impact too much and that people want them gone. As I have seen deletion works better when more people are involved and a discussion is held on everything or most being deleted before the deletion process begins. - <a href="/wiki/User:Knowledgekid87" title="User:Knowledgekid87">Knowledgekid87</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Knowledgekid87" title="User talk:Knowledgekid87">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2010_August_12#c-Knowledgekid87-2010-08-20T14:34:00.000Z-Alan_Liefting-2010-08-20T09:17:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">14:34, 20 August 2010 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd></dl> <ul><li>Delete the fact that so many editors are confused by the purpose of the category indicates to me that its not a helpful navigational aid. A good navigational aid should be clear to all readers. It also seems to be against the spirt of <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:SELF" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:SELF">WP:SELF</a> in that they are based on how wikipedia chooses to categorise things rather than the things themselves. Perhaps making them hidden categories might be an option.--<a href="/wiki/User:Salix_alba" title="User:Salix alba">Salix</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Salix_alba" title="User talk:Salix alba">talk</a>): <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2010_August_12#c-Salix_alba-2010-08-21T08:41:00.000Z-Alan_Liefting-2010-08-14T23:30:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">08:41, 21 August 2010 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li></ul> <dl><dd><ul><li>The categories aren't unhelpful, they just have stupid names. A category named after an article is just a topic category, and topic categories need to be organized just as much as set categories do. —<a href="/wiki/User:Codrdan" class="mw-redirect" title="User:Codrdan">Codrdan</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Codrdan" class="mw-redirect" title="User talk:Codrdan">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2010_August_12#c-Codrdan-2010-08-21T11:46:00.000Z-Salix_alba-2010-08-21T08:41:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">11:46, 21 August 2010 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li></ul></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd><ul><li>All categories are on topics, or sets of topics or lists of topics. -- <a href="/wiki/User:Alan_Liefting" title="User:Alan Liefting">Alan Liefting</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Alan_Liefting" title="User talk:Alan Liefting">talk</a>) - <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2010_August_12#c-Alan_Liefting-2010-08-21T22:33:00.000Z-Codrdan-2010-08-21T11:46:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:33, 21 August 2010 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li></ul></dd></dl></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><ul><li>Please read <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:CAT#The_category_system" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:CAT">WP:CAT#The_category_system</a> more carefully, Alan. You're creating a lot of confusion over a misunderstanding of the terminology. Categories aren't "on" anything, and there are two distinct kinds. Eponymous categories are "topic categories" that provide a useful organization of loosely related articles, while categories with plural names are "set categories" that contain only articles about specific classes of things. —<a href="/wiki/User:Codrdan" class="mw-redirect" title="User:Codrdan">Codrdan</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Codrdan" class="mw-redirect" title="User talk:Codrdan">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2010_August_12#c-Codrdan-2010-08-22T00:13:00.000Z-Alan_Liefting-2010-08-21T22:33:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:13, 22 August 2010 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li></ul> <dl><dd><ul><li>This is the "Crux of the Problem" right here. The above "topic categories" and "set categories" defines the entire problem. (This Eponymous Category stuff i believe is a little bit bogus). I see now that the "Category: Eponymous laws" (laws, 'maxims', etc, named after an individual was "listified", but I recall they used to be in a Category. The problem as I see it, One, or Wikipedia can list all the <a href="/w/index.php?title=Category:Categories_named_after_mountain_ranges&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category:Categories named after mountain ranges (page does not exist)">Category:Categories named after mountain ranges</a> into a <a href="/w/index.php?title=List_of_mountain_ranges_with_its_own_category&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="List of mountain ranges with its own category (page does not exist)">List of mountain ranges with its own category</a>, in other words "listify", but in a table one can add some relevant information. I see that as the only purpose for putting it in a list. As i said (ineloquently) above-(in other scatttered comments), Very few mountain ranges would have a category"... (maybe 5-15 in Arizona, maybe 10 in New Mexico, maybe 40 in USA). I just made <a href="/wiki/Category:Jemez_Mountains" title="Category:Jemez Mountains">Category:Jemez Mountains</a>, and had to change a discussion of the <a href="/wiki/List_of_mountain_ranges_of_New_Mexico" title="List of mountain ranges of New Mexico">List of mountain ranges of New Mexico</a>, because then.... I better understood what the deal was with <a href="/wiki/Valles_Caldera" title="Valles Caldera">Valles Caldera</a>, (the basic center of<a href="/wiki/Jemez_Mountains" title="Jemez Mountains">Jemez Mountains</a>, and (<a href="/wiki/Sierra_Nacimien" class="mw-redirect" title="Sierra Nacimien">Sierra Nacimien</a>-<a href="/wiki/San_Pedro_Mountains" class="mw-redirect" title="San Pedro Mountains">San Pedro Mountains</a> a redirect to the Nacimiento's). The purpose of the "Category" is so that it can be developed. (As is much of Wikipedia, still)...(And what again is this reference to FOO-?)<a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Mmcannis&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Mmcannis (page does not exist)">Mmcannis</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Mmcannis" title="User talk:Mmcannis">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2010_August_12#c-Mmcannis-2010-08-30T21:55:00.000Z-Codrdan-2010-08-22T00:13:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:55, 30 August 2010 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li></ul></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <ul><li>Keep per arguments by Occuli, Good Ol’factory, Mike Selinker etc. <a href="/wiki/User:Beagel" title="User:Beagel">Beagel</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Beagel" title="User talk:Beagel">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2010_August_12#c-Beagel-2010-08-21T13:44:00.000Z-Alan_Liefting-2010-08-14T23:30:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">13:44, 21 August 2010 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li></ul> <ul><li>Send to centralized discussion It's obvious that there are profound differences here about categorization which need to be addressed. <a href="/wiki/User:Mangoe" title="User:Mangoe">Mangoe</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Mangoe" title="User talk:Mangoe">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2010_August_12#c-Mangoe-2010-08-21T17:12:00.000Z-Alan_Liefting-2010-08-14T23:30:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:12, 21 August 2010 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li></ul> <dl><dd>Yes, it looks like that is a good idea but we should let the CfD run its course first. -- <a href="/wiki/User:Alan_Liefting" title="User:Alan Liefting">Alan Liefting</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Alan_Liefting" title="User talk:Alan Liefting">talk</a>) - <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2010_August_12#c-Alan_Liefting-2010-08-21T22:33:00.000Z-Alan_Liefting-2010-08-14T23:30:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:33, 21 August 2010 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd>Well, four days ago I saw no sign of this reaching any consensus, and none has developed in the meantime. I'd say it's time to give up on this and take this to a more general level. <a href="/wiki/User:Mangoe" title="User:Mangoe">Mangoe</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Mangoe" title="User talk:Mangoe">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2010_August_12#c-Mangoe-2010-08-25T15:56:00.000Z-Alan_Liefting-2010-08-21T22:33:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:56, 25 August 2010 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd></dl> Please give reasons for keeping. I put these categories up for deletion for a variety of reasons including redundancy, no apparent purpose, clutter, reader confusion, and the need for ongoing maintenance. None of the editors have given a clear reason as to why this series of categories should be kept to assist the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:READER" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:READER">reader</a>. To say they are of use is too vague. I want to know what are they useful for to the reader? If they are of use to editors only then they should be shoved in project space or made into hidden categories. -- <a href="/wiki/User:Alan_Liefting" title="User:Alan Liefting">Alan Liefting</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Alan_Liefting" title="User talk:Alan Liefting">talk</a>) - <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2010_August_12#c-Alan_Liefting-2010-08-21T22:33:00.000Z-Category:Eponymous_categories" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:33, 21 August 2010 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>I'll use the example that first brought me here, which was <a href="/w/index.php?title=Category:Categories_named_after_populated_places_in_Canada&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category:Categories named after populated places in Canada (page does not exist)">Category:Categories named after populated places in Canada</a>, to explain how these may be useful. The parent, <a href="/wiki/Category:Populated_places_in_Canada" title="Category:Populated places in Canada">Category:Populated places in Canada</a>, is subdivided in a number of ways (by type of populated place, by the province or territory that they're located in, etc.) — so as a diffused category, in its current form it does not provide a way to directly access a one-stop shop for "all populated places in Canada which have their own eponymous categories". If that's what you're looking for, you need <a href="/w/index.php?title=Category:Categories_named_after_populated_places_in_Canada&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category:Categories named after populated places in Canada (page does not exist)">Category:Categories named after populated places in Canada</a>, or something which has a different name but is serving the same function. It would not be desirable or navigationally useful for each individual category to be filed directly in <a href="/wiki/Category:Populated_places_in_Canada" title="Category:Populated places in Canada">Category:Populated places in Canada</a> in addition to <a href="/wiki/Category:Cities_in_Ontario" title="Category:Cities in Ontario">Category:Cities in Ontario</a> or <a href="/wiki/Category:Towns_in_Alberta" title="Category:Towns in Alberta">Category:Towns in Alberta</a> or whatever, but the comprehensive set is a useful thing to have somewhere else in the category tree.</dd> <dd>I do grant that perhaps they might be more useful in project space than in article space, and probably not all of them are necessary even under the reason I've outlined — the test should be "is this category providing access across a set that's already been diffused out of the common parent?", not just "is this just a way to shove these eponymous categories into the back closet?" — but they are useful in certain circumstances. <a href="/wiki/User:Bearcat" title="User:Bearcat">Bearcat</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Bearcat" title="User talk:Bearcat">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2010_August_12#c-Bearcat-2010-08-22T05:26:00.000Z-Alan_Liefting-2010-08-21T22:33:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">05:26, 22 August 2010 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl> <dl><dd>>what are they useful for to the reader?</dd> <dd>Eponymous categories contain lots of articles that readers might be interested in but don't belong in the set categories that contain the core articles (the ones the eponymous cats are named after). That can be very useful to readers if the core articles themselves don't cover the subjects fully enough. "Categories named after Xs" is not redundant to the category "Xs", because Cat:Xs contains only articles about Xs, while Categories named after Xs contains articles that are related to Xs but are not about the Xs themselves. —<a href="/wiki/User:Codrdan" class="mw-redirect" title="User:Codrdan">Codrdan</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Codrdan" class="mw-redirect" title="User talk:Codrdan">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2010_August_12#c-Codrdan-2010-08-22T09:23:00.000Z-Alan_Liefting-2010-08-21T22:33:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">09:23, 22 August 2010 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl> <ul><li>Split discussion and give time That simply too big to chew and swallow. Split into as many discussions as necessary and give it time. Just by observing the discussion at <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Anime_and_manga#Anime-and-manga_pages_are_miscategorized" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Anime and manga">Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Anime_and_manga#Anime-and-manga_pages_are_miscategorized</a> is a good example of my point. This CfD is turning into trench warfare and acrimony is increasing. I should note on a humorous tone that this one is a good opportunity for some editors to unlock the "I have a feud with a whole wiki project" achievement. --<a href="/wiki/User:KrebMarkt" title="User:KrebMarkt">KrebMarkt</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:KrebMarkt" title="User talk:KrebMarkt">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2010_August_12#c-KrebMarkt-2010-08-22T07:10:00.000Z-Alan_Liefting-2010-08-21T22:33:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">07:10, 22 August 2010 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li></ul> Keep Very usefull for locating articles. <a href="/wiki/User:Dimadick" title="User:Dimadick">Dimadick</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Dimadick" title="User talk:Dimadick">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2010_August_12#c-Dimadick-2010-08-27T11:51:00.000Z-Category:Eponymous_categories" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">11:51, 27 August 2010 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] Comment Has a consensus been reached yet on this? This debate has been up for over 3 weeks now. - <a href="/wiki/User:Knowledgekid87" title="User:Knowledgekid87">Knowledgekid87</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Knowledgekid87" title="User talk:Knowledgekid87">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2010_August_12#c-Knowledgekid87-2010-09-02T22:55:00.000Z-Category:Eponymous_categories" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:55, 2 September 2010 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <ul><li>Keep as least awful way to categorize eponymous categories. <a href="/wiki/User:Pichpich" title="User:Pichpich">Pichpich</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Pichpich" title="User talk:Pichpich">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2010_August_12#c-Pichpich-2010-09-03T15:00:00.000Z-Knowledgekid87-2010-09-02T22:55:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:00, 3 September 2010 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li> <li>Delete, either by upmerging or straight deletion. I was convinced by Jafeluv's argument above: It's logical for <a href="/wiki/Kylie_Minogue" title="Kylie Minogue">Kylie Minogue</a> to be in <a href="/w/index.php?title=Category:Australian_female_singers&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category:Australian female singers (page does not exist)">Category:Australian female singers</a>, but it would make no sense for <a href="/wiki/Category:Kylie_Minogue" title="Category:Kylie Minogue">Category:Kylie Minogue</a> to be a subcategory of <a href="/w/index.php?title=Category:Australian_female_singers&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category:Australian female singers (page does not exist)">Category:Australian female singers</a> since not all articles in <a href="/wiki/Category:Kylie_Minogue" title="Category:Kylie Minogue">Category:Kylie Minogue</a> are Australian female singers. I'm looking at, specifically, <a href="/wiki/Category:Andreanof_Islands" title="Category:Andreanof Islands">Category:Andreanof Islands</a>. It makes no sense for that to be a subcat of <a href="/w/index.php?title=Category:Categories_named_after_islands&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category:Categories named after islands (page does not exist)">Category:Categories named after islands</a>, since not all articles in <a href="/wiki/Category:Andreanof_Islands" title="Category:Andreanof Islands">Category:Andreanof Islands</a> are categories named after islands. All of the articles are islands, not categories. <a href="/wiki/Category:Andreanof_Islands" title="Category:Andreanof Islands">Category:Andreanof Islands</a> should be in <a href="/wiki/Category:Islands" title="Category:Islands">Category:Islands</a>. --<a href="/wiki/User:Kbdank71" title="User:Kbdank71">Kbdank71</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2010_August_12#c-Kbdank71-2010-09-03T18:07:00.000Z-Knowledgekid87-2010-09-02T22:55:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:07, 3 September 2010 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li></ul> <dl><dd><dl><dd>So are categories such as <a href="/wiki/Category:Kylie_Minogue" title="Category:Kylie Minogue">Category:Kylie Minogue</a> to be deleted as well under the CFD or is it just to be a category without a parent? I'd be fine with all of them being deleted but if they're kept, they need to fit under some sort of categorization scheme, don't they? --<a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Starcheerspeaksnewslostwars&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Starcheerspeaksnewslostwars (page does not exist)">Starcheerspeaksnewslostwars</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Starcheerspeaksnewslostwars" title="User talk:Starcheerspeaksnewslostwars">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2010_August_12#c-Starcheerspeaksnewslostwars-2010-09-03T23:24:00.000Z-Kbdank71-2010-09-03T18:07:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:24, 3 September 2010 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd></dl> <hr/> <dl><dd>The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Deletion_review" title="Wikipedia:Deletion review">deletion review</a>). No further edits should be made to this section.</dd></dl></div> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading4"><h4 id="Category:Sustainment_brigades_of_the_United_States_Army_and_Category:Sustainment_Brigades_of_the_United_States_Army" data-mw-thread-id="h-Category:Sustainment_brigades_of_the_United_States_Army_and_Category:Sustainment-August_12-2010-08-12T05:06:00.000Z">Category:Sustainment brigades of the United States Army and Category:Sustainment Brigades of the United States Army</h4>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2010_August_12&action=edit&section=13" title="Edit section: Category:Sustainment brigades of the United States Army and Category:Sustainment Brigades of the United States Army">edit</a>]</div> <div class="boilerplate vfd" style="background:#bff9fc; margin:0 auto; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #AAAAAA;"> <dl><dd>The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Deletion_review" title="Wikipedia:Deletion review">deletion review</a>). No further edits should be made to this section.</dd></dl> <dl><dd>The result of the discussion was: merge to <a href="/wiki/Category:Sustainment_Brigades_of_the_United_States_Army" title="Category:Sustainment Brigades of the United States Army">Category:Sustainment Brigades of the United States Army</a>.--<a href="/wiki/User:Mike_Selinker" title="User:Mike Selinker">Mike Selinker</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Mike_Selinker" title="User talk:Mike Selinker">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2010_August_12#c-Mike_Selinker-2010-08-23T14:55:00.000Z-Category:Sustainment_brigades_of_the_United_States_Army_and_Category:Sustainment" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">14:55, 23 August 2010 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd> <dd><a href="/w/index.php?title=Category:Sustainment_brigades_of_the_United_States_Army&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category:Sustainment brigades of the United States Army (page does not exist)">Category:Sustainment brigades of the United States Army</a> (<a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Category:Sustainment_brigades_of_the_United_States_Army&action=edit">edit</a> | <a href="/w/index.php?title=Category_talk:Sustainment_brigades_of_the_United_States_Army&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category talk:Sustainment brigades of the United States Army (page does not exist)">talk</a> | <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Category:Sustainment_brigades_of_the_United_States_Army&action=history">history</a> | <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Whatlinkshere/:Category:Sustainment_brigades_of_the_United_States_Army">links</a> | <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Category:Sustainment_brigades_of_the_United_States_Army&action=watch">watch</a> | <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Log&page=%3ACategory%3ASustainment+brigades+of+the+United+States+Army">logs</a>) </dd> <dd><a href="/wiki/Category:Sustainment_Brigades_of_the_United_States_Army" title="Category:Sustainment Brigades of the United States Army">Category:Sustainment Brigades of the United States Army</a> (<a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Category:Sustainment_Brigades_of_the_United_States_Army&action=edit">edit</a> | <a href="/wiki/Category_talk:Sustainment_Brigades_of_the_United_States_Army" title="Category talk:Sustainment Brigades of the United States Army">talk</a> | <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Category:Sustainment_Brigades_of_the_United_States_Army&action=history">history</a> | <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Whatlinkshere/:Category:Sustainment_Brigades_of_the_United_States_Army">links</a> | <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Category:Sustainment_Brigades_of_the_United_States_Army&action=watch">watch</a> | <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Log&page=%3ACategory%3ASustainment+Brigades+of+the+United+States+Army">logs</a>) </dd> <dd>Nominator's rationale: Merge. --<a href="/wiki/User:Pascal666" title="User:Pascal666">Pascal</a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Pascal666" title="User talk:Pascal666">666</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2010_August_12#c-Pascal666-2010-08-12T05:06:00.000Z-Category:Sustainment_brigades_of_the_United_States_Army_and_Category:Sustainment" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">05:06, 12 August 2010 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl> <ul><li>merge to which? <a href="/wiki/User:Hmains" title="User:Hmains">Hmains</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Hmains" title="User talk:Hmains">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2010_August_12#c-Hmains-2010-08-14T17:39:00.000Z-Category:Sustainment_brigades_of_the_United_States_Army_and_Category:Sustainment" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:39, 14 August 2010 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li></ul> <ul><li>Merge to Category:Sustainment Brigades of the United States Army - <a href="/wiki/User:Knowledgekid87" title="User:Knowledgekid87">Knowledgekid87</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Knowledgekid87" title="User talk:Knowledgekid87">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2010_August_12#c-Knowledgekid87-2010-08-19T01:10:00.000Z-Category:Sustainment_brigades_of_the_United_States_Army_and_Category:Sustainment" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:10, 19 August 2010 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li></ul> <hr/> <dl><dd>The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Deletion_review" title="Wikipedia:Deletion review">deletion review</a>). No further edits should be made to this section.</dd></dl></div> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading4"><h4 id="Category:Air_defense_artillery_brigades_of_the_United_States_Army_and_Category:Air_Defense_Artillery_Brigades_of_the_United_States_Army" data-mw-thread-id="h-Category:Air_defense_artillery_brigades_of_the_United_States_Army_and_Category:A-August_12-2010-08-12T05:06:00.000Z">Category:Air defense artillery brigades of the United States Army and Category:Air Defense Artillery Brigades of the United States Army</h4>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2010_August_12&action=edit&section=14" title="Edit section: Category:Air defense artillery brigades of the United States Army and Category:Air Defense Artillery Brigades of the United States Army">edit</a>]</div> <div class="boilerplate vfd" style="background:#bff9fc; margin:0 auto; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #AAAAAA;"> <dl><dd>The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Deletion_review" title="Wikipedia:Deletion review">deletion review</a>). No further edits should be made to this section.</dd></dl> <dl><dd>The result of the discussion was: merge to <a href="/w/index.php?title=Category:Air_Defense_Artillery_Brigades_of_the_United_States_Army&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category:Air Defense Artillery Brigades of the United States Army (page does not exist)">Category:Air Defense Artillery Brigades of the United States Army</a>.--<a href="/wiki/User:Mike_Selinker" title="User:Mike Selinker">Mike Selinker</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Mike_Selinker" title="User talk:Mike Selinker">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2010_August_12#c-Mike_Selinker-2010-08-23T14:56:00.000Z-Category:Air_defense_artillery_brigades_of_the_United_States_Army_and_Category:A" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">14:56, 23 August 2010 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd> <dd><a href="/wiki/Category:Air_defense_artillery_brigades_of_the_United_States_Army" title="Category:Air defense artillery brigades of the United States Army">Category:Air defense artillery brigades of the United States Army</a> (<a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Category:Air_defense_artillery_brigades_of_the_United_States_Army&action=edit">edit</a> | <a href="/wiki/Category_talk:Air_defense_artillery_brigades_of_the_United_States_Army" title="Category talk:Air defense artillery brigades of the United States Army">talk</a> | <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Category:Air_defense_artillery_brigades_of_the_United_States_Army&action=history">history</a> | <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Whatlinkshere/:Category:Air_defense_artillery_brigades_of_the_United_States_Army">links</a> | <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Category:Air_defense_artillery_brigades_of_the_United_States_Army&action=watch">watch</a> | <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Log&page=%3ACategory%3AAir+defense+artillery+brigades+of+the+United+States+Army">logs</a>) </dd> <dd><a href="/w/index.php?title=Category:Air_Defense_Artillery_Brigades_of_the_United_States_Army&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category:Air Defense Artillery Brigades of the United States Army (page does not exist)">Category:Air Defense Artillery Brigades of the United States Army</a> (<a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Category:Air_Defense_Artillery_Brigades_of_the_United_States_Army&action=edit">edit</a> | <a href="/w/index.php?title=Category_talk:Air_Defense_Artillery_Brigades_of_the_United_States_Army&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category talk:Air Defense Artillery Brigades of the United States Army (page does not exist)">talk</a> | <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Category:Air_Defense_Artillery_Brigades_of_the_United_States_Army&action=history">history</a> | <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Whatlinkshere/:Category:Air_Defense_Artillery_Brigades_of_the_United_States_Army">links</a> | <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Category:Air_Defense_Artillery_Brigades_of_the_United_States_Army&action=watch">watch</a> | <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Log&page=%3ACategory%3AAir+Defense+Artillery+Brigades+of+the+United+States+Army">logs</a>) </dd> <dd>Nominator's rationale: Merge. --<a href="/wiki/User:Pascal666" title="User:Pascal666">Pascal</a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Pascal666" title="User talk:Pascal666">666</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2010_August_12#c-Pascal666-2010-08-12T05:06:00.000Z-Category:Air_defense_artillery_brigades_of_the_United_States_Army_and_Category:A" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">05:06, 12 August 2010 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl> <ul><li>merge to which? <a href="/wiki/User:Hmains" title="User:Hmains">Hmains</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Hmains" title="User talk:Hmains">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2010_August_12#c-Hmains-2010-08-14T17:40:00.000Z-Category:Air_defense_artillery_brigades_of_the_United_States_Army_and_Category:A" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:40, 14 August 2010 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li></ul> <hr/> <dl><dd>The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Deletion_review" title="Wikipedia:Deletion review">deletion review</a>). No further edits should be made to this section.</dd></dl></div> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading4"><h4 id="Category:Royal_Navy_Post-ships_and_Category:Royal_Navy_post_ships" data-mw-thread-id="h-Category:Royal_Navy_Post-ships_and_Category:Royal_Navy_post_ships-August_12-2010-08-12T05:06:00.000Z">Category:Royal Navy Post-ships and Category:Royal Navy post ships</h4>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2010_August_12&action=edit&section=15" title="Edit section: Category:Royal Navy Post-ships and Category:Royal Navy post ships">edit</a>]</div> <div class="boilerplate vfd" style="background:#bff9fc; margin:0 auto; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #AAAAAA;"> <dl><dd>The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Deletion_review" title="Wikipedia:Deletion review">deletion review</a>). No further edits should be made to this section.</dd></dl> <dl><dd>The result of the discussion was: Merge to <a href="/w/index.php?title=Category:Royal_Navy_post_ships&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category:Royal Navy post ships (page does not exist)">Category:Royal Navy post ships</a>. <a href="/wiki/User:Ruslik0" title="User:Ruslik0">Ruslik</a>_<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Ruslik0" title="User talk:Ruslik0">Zero</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2010_August_12#c-Ruslik0-2010-08-21T19:19:00.000Z-Category:Royal_Navy_Post-ships_and_Category:Royal_Navy_post_ships" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:19, 21 August 2010 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd> <dd><a href="/w/index.php?title=Category:Royal_Navy_Post-ships&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category:Royal Navy Post-ships (page does not exist)">Category:Royal Navy Post-ships</a> (<a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Category:Royal_Navy_Post-ships&action=edit">edit</a> | <a href="/w/index.php?title=Category_talk:Royal_Navy_Post-ships&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category talk:Royal Navy Post-ships (page does not exist)">talk</a> | <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Category:Royal_Navy_Post-ships&action=history">history</a> | <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Whatlinkshere/:Category:Royal_Navy_Post-ships">links</a> | <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Category:Royal_Navy_Post-ships&action=watch">watch</a> | <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Log&page=%3ACategory%3ARoyal+Navy+Post-ships">logs</a>) </dd> <dd><a href="/w/index.php?title=Category:Royal_Navy_post_ships&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category:Royal Navy post ships (page does not exist)">Category:Royal Navy post ships</a> (<a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Category:Royal_Navy_post_ships&action=edit">edit</a> | <a href="/w/index.php?title=Category_talk:Royal_Navy_post_ships&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category talk:Royal Navy post ships (page does not exist)">talk</a> | <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Category:Royal_Navy_post_ships&action=history">history</a> | <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Whatlinkshere/:Category:Royal_Navy_post_ships">links</a> | <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Category:Royal_Navy_post_ships&action=watch">watch</a> | <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Log&page=%3ACategory%3ARoyal+Navy+post+ships">logs</a>) </dd> <dd>Nominator's rationale: Merge. --<a href="/wiki/User:Pascal666" title="User:Pascal666">Pascal</a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Pascal666" title="User talk:Pascal666">666</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2010_August_12#c-Pascal666-2010-08-12T05:06:00.000Z-Category:Royal_Navy_Post-ships_and_Category:Royal_Navy_post_ships" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">05:06, 12 August 2010 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl> <ul><li>Merge to <a href="/w/index.php?title=Category:Royal_Navy_post_ships&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category:Royal Navy post ships (page does not exist)">Category:Royal Navy post ships</a>. <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Twiceuponatime&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Twiceuponatime (page does not exist)">Twiceuponatime</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Twiceuponatime" title="User talk:Twiceuponatime">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2010_August_12#c-Twiceuponatime-2010-08-12T08:14:00.000Z-Category:Royal_Navy_Post-ships_and_Category:Royal_Navy_post_ships" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">08:14, 12 August 2010 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li></ul> <hr/> <dl><dd>The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Deletion_review" title="Wikipedia:Deletion review">deletion review</a>). No further edits should be made to this section.</dd></dl></div> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading4"><h4 id="Category:Korean-language_education_and_Category:Korean_language_education" data-mw-thread-id="h-Category:Korean-language_education_and_Category:Korean_language_education-August_12-2010-08-12T05:06:00.000Z">Category:Korean-language education and Category:Korean language education</h4>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2010_August_12&action=edit&section=16" title="Edit section: Category:Korean-language education and Category:Korean language education">edit</a>]</div> <div class="boilerplate vfd" style="background:#bff9fc; margin:0 auto; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #AAAAAA;"> <dl><dd>The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Deletion_review" title="Wikipedia:Deletion review">deletion review</a>). No further edits should be made to this section.</dd></dl> <dl><dd>The result of the discussion was: Merge <a href="/w/index.php?title=Category:Korean_language_education&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category:Korean language education (page does not exist)">Category:Korean language education</a> into <a href="/wiki/Category:Korean-language_education" title="Category:Korean-language education">Category:Korean-language education</a>. <a href="/wiki/User:Od_Mishehu" title="User:Od Mishehu">עוד מישהו</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Od_Mishehu" title="User talk:Od Mishehu">Od Mishehu</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2010_August_12#c-Od_Mishehu-2010-08-19T08:03:00.000Z-Category:Korean-language_education_and_Category:Korean_language_education" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">08:03, 19 August 2010 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd> <dd><a href="/wiki/Category:Korean-language_education" title="Category:Korean-language education">Category:Korean-language education</a> (<a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Category:Korean-language_education&action=edit">edit</a> | <a href="/wiki/Category_talk:Korean-language_education" title="Category talk:Korean-language education">talk</a> | <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Category:Korean-language_education&action=history">history</a> | <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Whatlinkshere/:Category:Korean-language_education">links</a> | <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Category:Korean-language_education&action=watch">watch</a> | <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Log&page=%3ACategory%3AKorean-language+education">logs</a>) </dd> <dd><a href="/w/index.php?title=Category:Korean_language_education&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category:Korean language education (page does not exist)">Category:Korean language education</a> (<a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Category:Korean_language_education&action=edit">edit</a> | <a href="/w/index.php?title=Category_talk:Korean_language_education&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category talk:Korean language education (page does not exist)">talk</a> | <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Category:Korean_language_education&action=history">history</a> | <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Whatlinkshere/:Category:Korean_language_education">links</a> | <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Category:Korean_language_education&action=watch">watch</a> | <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Log&page=%3ACategory%3AKorean+language+education">logs</a>) </dd> <dd>Nominator's rationale: Merge. --<a href="/wiki/User:Pascal666" title="User:Pascal666">Pascal</a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Pascal666" title="User talk:Pascal666">666</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2010_August_12#c-Pascal666-2010-08-12T05:06:00.000Z-Category:Korean-language_education_and_Category:Korean_language_education" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">05:06, 12 August 2010 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl> <ul><li>Speedy merge, keep hyphenated. <a href="/wiki/User:Jonkerz" title="User:Jonkerz">jonkerz</a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Jonkerz" title="User talk:Jonkerz">♠</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2010_August_12#c-Jonkerz-2010-08-12T16:41:00.000Z-Category:Korean-language_education_and_Category:Korean_language_education" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:41, 12 August 2010 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li></ul> <hr/> <dl><dd>The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Deletion_review" title="Wikipedia:Deletion review">deletion review</a>). No further edits should be made to this section.</dd></dl></div> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading4"><h4 id="Category:Wikipedia_Featured_Picture_contributors_and_Category:Wikipedia_Featured_picture_contributors" data-mw-thread-id="h-Category:Wikipedia_Featured_Picture_contributors_and_Category:Wikipedia_Featured-August_12-2010-08-12T05:06:00.000Z">Category:Wikipedia Featured Picture contributors and Category:Wikipedia Featured picture contributors</h4>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2010_August_12&action=edit&section=17" title="Edit section: Category:Wikipedia Featured Picture contributors and Category:Wikipedia Featured picture contributors">edit</a>]</div> <div class="boilerplate vfd" style="background:#bff9fc; margin:0 auto; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #AAAAAA;"> <dl><dd>The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Deletion_review" title="Wikipedia:Deletion review">deletion review</a>). No further edits should be made to this section.</dd></dl> <dl><dd>The result of the discussion was: Merge to <a href="/w/index.php?title=Category:Wikipedia_Featured_picture_contributors&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category:Wikipedia Featured picture contributors (page does not exist)">Category:Wikipedia Featured picture contributors</a>. <a href="/wiki/User:Ruslik0" title="User:Ruslik0">Ruslik</a>_<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Ruslik0" title="User talk:Ruslik0">Zero</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2010_August_12#c-Ruslik0-2010-08-21T19:21:00.000Z-Category:Wikipedia_Featured_Picture_contributors_and_Category:Wikipedia_Featured" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:21, 21 August 2010 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd> <dd><a href="/w/index.php?title=Category:Wikipedia_Featured_Picture_contributors&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category:Wikipedia Featured Picture contributors (page does not exist)">Category:Wikipedia Featured Picture contributors</a> (<a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Category:Wikipedia_Featured_Picture_contributors&action=edit">edit</a> | <a href="/w/index.php?title=Category_talk:Wikipedia_Featured_Picture_contributors&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category talk:Wikipedia Featured Picture contributors (page does not exist)">talk</a> | <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Category:Wikipedia_Featured_Picture_contributors&action=history">history</a> | <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Whatlinkshere/:Category:Wikipedia_Featured_Picture_contributors">links</a> | <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Category:Wikipedia_Featured_Picture_contributors&action=watch">watch</a> | <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Log&page=%3ACategory%3AWikipedia+Featured+Picture+contributors">logs</a>) </dd> <dd><a href="/w/index.php?title=Category:Wikipedia_Featured_picture_contributors&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category:Wikipedia Featured picture contributors (page does not exist)">Category:Wikipedia Featured picture contributors</a> (<a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Category:Wikipedia_Featured_picture_contributors&action=edit">edit</a> | <a href="/w/index.php?title=Category_talk:Wikipedia_Featured_picture_contributors&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category talk:Wikipedia Featured picture contributors (page does not exist)">talk</a> | <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Category:Wikipedia_Featured_picture_contributors&action=history">history</a> | <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Whatlinkshere/:Category:Wikipedia_Featured_picture_contributors">links</a> | <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Category:Wikipedia_Featured_picture_contributors&action=watch">watch</a> | <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Log&page=%3ACategory%3AWikipedia+Featured+picture+contributors">logs</a>) </dd> <dd>Nominator's rationale: Merge. --<a href="/wiki/User:Pascal666" title="User:Pascal666">Pascal</a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Pascal666" title="User talk:Pascal666">666</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2010_August_12#c-Pascal666-2010-08-12T05:06:00.000Z-Category:Wikipedia_Featured_Picture_contributors_and_Category:Wikipedia_Featured" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">05:06, 12 August 2010 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl> <ul><li>merge to which? <a href="/wiki/User:Hmains" title="User:Hmains">Hmains</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Hmains" title="User talk:Hmains">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2010_August_12#c-Hmains-2010-08-14T17:41:00.000Z-Category:Wikipedia_Featured_Picture_contributors_and_Category:Wikipedia_Featured" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:41, 14 August 2010 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li></ul> <hr/> <dl><dd>The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Deletion_review" title="Wikipedia:Deletion review">deletion review</a>). No further edits should be made to this section.</dd></dl></div> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading4"><h4 id="Category:Subtemplates_of_Template_ft2_to_m2_and_Category:Subtemplates_of_Template_Ft2_to_m2" data-mw-thread-id="h-Category:Subtemplates_of_Template_ft2_to_m2_and_Category:Subtemplates_of_Templat-August_12-2010-08-12T05:06:00.000Z">Category:Subtemplates of Template ft2 to m2 and Category:Subtemplates of Template Ft2 to m2</h4>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2010_August_12&action=edit&section=18" title="Edit section: Category:Subtemplates of Template ft2 to m2 and Category:Subtemplates of Template Ft2 to m2">edit</a>]</div> <div class="boilerplate vfd" style="background:#bff9fc; margin:0 auto; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #AAAAAA;"> <dl><dd>The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Deletion_review" title="Wikipedia:Deletion review">deletion review</a>). No further edits should be made to this section.</dd></dl> <dl><dd>The result of the discussion was: merge to <a href="/w/index.php?title=Category:Subtemplates_of_Template_ft2_to_m2&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category:Subtemplates of Template ft2 to m2 (page does not exist)">Category:Subtemplates of Template ft2 to m2</a> per the related <a href="/w/index.php?title=Category:Subtemplates_of_Template_ft_to_m&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category:Subtemplates of Template ft to m (page does not exist)">Category:Subtemplates of Template ft to m</a>.--<a href="/wiki/User:Mike_Selinker" title="User:Mike Selinker">Mike Selinker</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Mike_Selinker" title="User talk:Mike Selinker">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2010_August_12#c-Mike_Selinker-2010-08-23T14:59:00.000Z-Category:Subtemplates_of_Template_ft2_to_m2_and_Category:Subtemplates_of_Templat" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">14:59, 23 August 2010 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd> <dd><a href="/w/index.php?title=Category:Subtemplates_of_Template_ft2_to_m2&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category:Subtemplates of Template ft2 to m2 (page does not exist)">Category:Subtemplates of Template ft2 to m2</a> (<a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Category:Subtemplates_of_Template_ft2_to_m2&action=edit">edit</a> | <a href="/w/index.php?title=Category_talk:Subtemplates_of_Template_ft2_to_m2&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category talk:Subtemplates of Template ft2 to m2 (page does not exist)">talk</a> | <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Category:Subtemplates_of_Template_ft2_to_m2&action=history">history</a> | <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Whatlinkshere/:Category:Subtemplates_of_Template_ft2_to_m2">links</a> | <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Category:Subtemplates_of_Template_ft2_to_m2&action=watch">watch</a> | <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Log&page=%3ACategory%3ASubtemplates+of+Template+ft2+to+m2">logs</a>) </dd> <dd><a href="/w/index.php?title=Category:Subtemplates_of_Template_Ft2_to_m2&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category:Subtemplates of Template Ft2 to m2 (page does not exist)">Category:Subtemplates of Template Ft2 to m2</a> (<a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Category:Subtemplates_of_Template_Ft2_to_m2&action=edit">edit</a> | <a href="/w/index.php?title=Category_talk:Subtemplates_of_Template_Ft2_to_m2&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category talk:Subtemplates of Template Ft2 to m2 (page does not exist)">talk</a> | <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Category:Subtemplates_of_Template_Ft2_to_m2&action=history">history</a> | <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Whatlinkshere/:Category:Subtemplates_of_Template_Ft2_to_m2">links</a> | <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Category:Subtemplates_of_Template_Ft2_to_m2&action=watch">watch</a> | <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Log&page=%3ACategory%3ASubtemplates+of+Template+Ft2+to+m2">logs</a>) </dd> <dd>Nominator's rationale: Merge. --<a href="/wiki/User:Pascal666" title="User:Pascal666">Pascal</a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Pascal666" title="User talk:Pascal666">666</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2010_August_12#c-Pascal666-2010-08-12T05:06:00.000Z-Category:Subtemplates_of_Template_ft2_to_m2_and_Category:Subtemplates_of_Templat" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">05:06, 12 August 2010 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl> <ul><li>merge to which? <a href="/wiki/User:Hmains" title="User:Hmains">Hmains</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Hmains" title="User talk:Hmains">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2010_August_12#c-Hmains-2010-08-14T17:41:00.000Z-Category:Subtemplates_of_Template_ft2_to_m2_and_Category:Subtemplates_of_Templat" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:41, 14 August 2010 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li></ul> <hr/> <dl><dd>The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Deletion_review" title="Wikipedia:Deletion review">deletion review</a>). No further edits should be made to this section.</dd></dl></div> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading4"><h4 id="Category:Drag_queens" data-mw-thread-id="h-Category:Drag_queens-August_12-2010-07-17T22:59:00.000Z">Category:Drag queens</h4>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2010_August_12&action=edit&section=19" title="Edit section: Category:Drag queens">edit</a>]</div> <div class="boilerplate vfd" style="background:#bff9fc; margin:0 auto; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #AAAAAA;"> <dl><dd>The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Deletion_review" title="Wikipedia:Deletion review">deletion review</a>). No further edits should be made to this section.</dd></dl> <dl><dd>The result of the discussion was: consensus not to rename/merge. <a href="/wiki/User:Angusmclellan" title="User:Angusmclellan">Angus McLellan</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Angusmclellan" title="User talk:Angusmclellan">(Talk)</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2010_August_12#c-Angusmclellan-2010-08-29T00:08:00.000Z-Category:Drag_queens" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:08, 29 August 2010 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd> <dd>Propose renaming <a href="/wiki/Category:Drag_queens" title="Category:Drag queens">Category:Drag queens</a> to <a href="/wiki/Category:Drag_performers" title="Category:Drag performers">Category:Drag performers</a></dd> <dd>Propose merging or renaming <a href="/wiki/Category:American_female_impersonators" title="Category:American female impersonators">Category:American female impersonators</a></dd> <dd>Nominator's rationale: Rename - The term "drag queen" carries with it a connotation, which I of course view in no way negative, that the person so described is gay. There are performers in this category (e.g. <a href="/wiki/T._C._Jones" title="T. C. Jones">T. C. Jones</a>, <a href="/wiki/Julian_Eltinge" title="Julian Eltinge">Julian Eltinge</a>, <a href="/wiki/Charles_Pierce_(female_impersonator)" title="Charles Pierce (female impersonator)">Charles Pierce</a>) who during their lives would have (and in some cases did) object to being labeled a "drag queen". Some performers (e.g. <a href="/wiki/Milton_Berle" title="Milton Berle">Milton Berle</a>, <a href="/wiki/Barry_Humphries" title="Barry Humphries">Barry Humphries</a>) who are very well-known for performing in drag are not included, probably because of the homosexual connotation. Renaming to "performers" neutralizes the POV, is a better descriptor and allows for the appropriate inclusion of some currently absent articles. As for the American subcategory, I'm not persuaded that with a parent category of under 200 that splitting out by nationality is necessary at this time so my first preference is to merge back to the parent. If sub-division is desired then rename to <a href="/wiki/Category:American_drag_performers" title="Category:American drag performers">Category:American drag performers</a> per my proposed rename of the parent. <a href="/wiki/User:Otto4711" title="User:Otto4711">Otto4711</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Otto4711" class="mw-redirect" title="User talk:Otto4711">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2010_August_12#c-Otto4711-2010-07-17T22:59:00.000Z-Category:Drag_queens" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:59, 17 July 2010 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <ul><li>Alternate proposal - I wonder if <a href="/w/index.php?title=Category:Drag_artists&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category:Drag artists (page does not exist)">Category:Drag artists</a> would be better than performers. The two terms are used interchangeably in the <a href="/wiki/Drag_queen" title="Drag queen">Drag queen</a> article with artist being a redirect. <a href="/wiki/User:Beeswaxcandle" title="User:Beeswaxcandle">Beeswaxcandle</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Beeswaxcandle" title="User talk:Beeswaxcandle">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2010_August_12#c-Beeswaxcandle-2010-07-18T00:04:00.000Z-Otto4711-2010-07-17T22:59:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:04, 18 July 2010 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li></ul></dd></dl> <ul><li>Rename both categories per nom. The US subcat should be kept, not merely in order to group those articles together but, as always, to make it possible for readers to see which articles are NOT about Americans. <a href="/wiki/User:Cgingold" title="User:Cgingold">Cgingold</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Cgingold" title="User talk:Cgingold">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2010_August_12#c-Cgingold-2010-07-18T01:47:00.000Z-Category:Drag_queens" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:47, 18 July 2010 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li></ul> <dl><dd><ul><li>Comment - 12 of the 22 articles in the subcat are also in the main cat so the subcat is not being used for this purpose. <a href="/wiki/User:Otto4711" title="User:Otto4711">Otto4711</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Otto4711" class="mw-redirect" title="User talk:Otto4711">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2010_August_12#c-Otto4711-2010-07-18T02:33:00.000Z-Cgingold-2010-07-18T01:47:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:33, 18 July 2010 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li></ul> <dl><dd><ul><li>I'm not surprised to hear that, given the radically different category names. And I'm sure there are quite a few in the main cat that should be moved into the subcat. <a href="/wiki/User:Cgingold" title="User:Cgingold">Cgingold</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Cgingold" title="User talk:Cgingold">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2010_August_12#c-Cgingold-2010-07-18T06:19:00.000Z-Otto4711-2010-07-18T02:33:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">06:19, 18 July 2010 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li></ul></dd></dl></dd></dl> <ul><li>Oppose. 'Drag queen' gets 20 times the hits of 'Drag performer'. Drag queen is in common use and well known. The issue with connotation is addressed in the first paragraph of the main article. <a href="/wiki/User:Vegaswikian" title="User:Vegaswikian">Vegaswikian</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Vegaswikian" title="User talk:Vegaswikian">talk</a>) 16:41, July 18, 2010</li></ul> <dl><dd><ul><li>So rather than having a name that doesn't carry a connotation we should keep the current name and expect everyone who sees the category at the bottom of an article to navigate to the main article to find the (uncited) sentence that supposedly clears it all up. <a href="/wiki/User:Otto4711" title="User:Otto4711">Otto4711</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Otto4711" class="mw-redirect" title="User talk:Otto4711">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2010_August_12#c-Otto4711-2010-07-19T19:33:00.000Z-Category:Drag_queens" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:33, 19 July 2010 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li></ul> <dl><dd><ul><li>Yes for all of those who do not jump to incorrect conclusions about what a drag queen is. Do we actually know how many readers don't know the correct usage here? <a href="/wiki/User:Vegaswikian" title="User:Vegaswikian">Vegaswikian</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Vegaswikian" title="User talk:Vegaswikian">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2010_August_12#c-Vegaswikian-2010-07-19T23:12:00.000Z-Otto4711-2010-07-19T19:33:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:12, 19 July 2010 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li></ul> <dl><dd><ul><li>I think it would be helpful to frame this discussion a little differently: It's not a question of which term has more ghits, but rather which term yields a more useful category. The real point, I think, is that "drag performers" is a slightly broader and more inclusive term than "drag queens", and is therefore preferable. <a href="/wiki/User:Cgingold" title="User:Cgingold">Cgingold</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Cgingold" title="User talk:Cgingold">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2010_August_12#c-Cgingold-2010-07-20T20:02:00.000Z-Vegaswikian-2010-07-19T23:12:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:02, 20 July 2010 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li></ul></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <ul><li>Question: Would a rename have any effect on <a href="/wiki/Category:Drag_kings" title="Category:Drag kings">Category:Drag kings</a>? <a href="/wiki/User:Gobonobo" title="User:Gobonobo">Gobonobo</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Gobonobo" title="User talk:Gobonobo">T</a> <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Gobonobo" title="Special:Contributions/Gobonobo">C</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2010_August_12#c-Gobonobo-2010-07-19T00:25:00.000Z-Category:Drag_queens" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:25, 19 July 2010 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li> <li>Oppose rename of category unless consensus determines that <a href="/wiki/Drag_queen" title="Drag queen">Drag queen</a> should also be renamed. --<a href="/wiki/User:SarekOfVulcan" title="User:SarekOfVulcan">SarekOfVulcan</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:SarekOfVulcan" title="User talk:SarekOfVulcan">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2010_August_12#c-SarekOfVulcan-2010-07-20T02:41:00.000Z-Category:Drag_queens" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:41, 20 July 2010 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li></ul> <dl><dd><ul><li>There is no absolute requirement that the names of the category and its main article be identical. <a href="/wiki/User:Cgingold" title="User:Cgingold">Cgingold</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Cgingold" title="User talk:Cgingold">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2010_August_12#c-Cgingold-2010-07-20T20:05:00.000Z-SarekOfVulcan-2010-07-20T02:41:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:05, 20 July 2010 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li></ul></dd></dl> <ul><li>keep as is. Connotation is what differentiates the subjects of this category from mere performers. <a href="/wiki/User_talk:East_of_Borschov" title="User talk:East of Borschov">East of Borschov</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2010_August_12#c-East_of_Borschov-2010-07-20T20:09:00.000Z-Category:Drag_queens" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:09, 20 July 2010 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li></ul> <dl><dd><ul><li>So you're suggesting what, that only gay men who wear dresses should be included? I don't understand your comment at all. <a href="/wiki/User:Otto4711" title="User:Otto4711">Otto4711</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Otto4711" class="mw-redirect" title="User talk:Otto4711">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2010_August_12#c-Otto4711-2010-07-23T16:33:00.000Z-East_of_Borschov-2010-07-20T20:09:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:33, 23 July 2010 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li></ul></dd></dl> <ul><li>Rename this and <a href="/wiki/Category:Drag_kings" title="Category:Drag kings">Category:Drag kings</a> to <a href="/wiki/Category:Drag_performers" title="Category:Drag performers">Category:Drag performers</a>. "Drag queen" does sound like an antiquated and unlikable term to me, anyway.--<a href="/wiki/User:Mike_Selinker" title="User:Mike Selinker">Mike Selinker</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Mike_Selinker" title="User talk:Mike Selinker">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2010_August_12#c-Mike_Selinker-2010-07-25T03:28:00.000Z-Category:Drag_queens" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">03:28, 25 July 2010 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li></ul> <hr style="width:50%;"/> <dl><dd><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:RELIST" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:RELIST">Relisted</a> to generate a more thorough discussion so consensus may be reached. Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, <a href="/wiki/User:Courcelles" title="User:Courcelles">Courcelles</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2010_August_12#c-Courcelles-2010-08-12T04:31:00.000Z-Category:Drag_queens" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">04:31, 12 August 2010 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl> <ul><li>Oppose. Drag queen is a term that most of these people wear proudly on their sleeves. They have been through the very difficult process of coming out to the society, and they are not going to hide themselves again behind terms like "drag performers". --<a href="/wiki/User:Refudiate" title="User:Refudiate">Refudiate</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Refudiate" title="User talk:Refudiate">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2010_August_12#c-Refudiate-2010-08-13T02:13:00.000Z-Category:Drag_queens" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:13, 13 August 2010 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li> <li>Oppose. From the discussion to date, it appears that <a href="/wiki/Category:Drag_queens" title="Category:Drag queens">Category:Drag queens</a> and <a href="/wiki/Category:Drag_kings" title="Category:Drag kings">Category:Drag kings</a> are legitimate sub-categories that should be associated with a parent category such as <a href="/w/index.php?title=Category:Gender_impersonators&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category:Gender impersonators (page does not exist)">Category:Gender impersonators</a> or <a href="/wiki/Category:Drag_performers" title="Category:Drag performers">Category:Drag performers</a> (the former implies non-performers could be included while the later is restricted to entertainers of some description). Other sub-categories could then be raised, where appropriate, to cover those articles where the categorisation term Drag queen or Drag king are not appropriate. Cheers, <a href="/wiki/User:AusTerrapin" title="User:AusTerrapin">AusTerrapin</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:AusTerrapin" title="User talk:AusTerrapin">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2010_August_12#c-AusTerrapin-2010-08-13T04:17:00.000Z-Category:Drag_queens" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">04:17, 13 August 2010 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li> <li>Support Mike Selinger's suggestion - merge both Queens and Kings to nominated target <a href="/wiki/User:Mayumashu" title="User:Mayumashu">Mayumashu</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Mayumashu" title="User talk:Mayumashu">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2010_August_12#c-Mayumashu-2010-08-17T14:18:00.000Z-Category:Drag_queens" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">14:18, 17 August 2010 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li> <li>Oppose - I'm not certain of the need to conflate/combine anyone who has ever dressed in drag into a single category. That would seem to put this into <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:OC" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:OC">WP:OC</a> realm of performer by performance. While <a href="/wiki/Drag_queen" title="Drag queen">Drag queen</a> and <a href="/wiki/Drag_King" class="mw-redirect" title="Drag King">Drag King</a> would appear to be more than just performer by performance. Perhaps an effort should be made to keep these cats clear? - <a href="/wiki/User:Jc37" title="User:Jc37">jc37</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2010_August_12#c-Jc37-2010-08-19T21:37:00.000Z-Category:Drag_queens" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:37, 19 August 2010 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li></ul> <hr/> <dl><dd>The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Deletion_review" title="Wikipedia:Deletion review">deletion review</a>). No further edits should be made to this section.</dd></dl></div>    </div><noscript><img src="https://login.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:CentralAutoLogin/start?type=1x1&useformat=desktop" alt="" width="1" height="1" style="border: none; position: absolute;"></noscript> <div class="printfooter" data-nosnippet="">Retrieved from "<a dir="ltr" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2010_August_12&oldid=1141928318">https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2010_August_12&oldid=1141928318</a>"</div></div> <div id="catlinks" class="catlinks catlinks-allhidden" data-mw="interface"></div> </div> </main> </div> <div class="mw-footer-container"> <footer id="footer" class="mw-footer" > <ul id="footer-info"> <li id="footer-info-lastmod"> This page was last edited on 27 February 2023, at 16:18 (UTC).</li> <li id="footer-info-copyright">Text is available under the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Text_of_the_Creative_Commons_Attribution-ShareAlike_4.0_International_License" title="Wikipedia:Text of the Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike 4.0 International License">Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike 4.0 License</a>; additional terms may apply. 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