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id="toc-Tau_propagation" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-2"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Tau_propagation"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">1.1</span> <span>Tau propagation</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">2 comments</span> <ul id="toc-Tau_propagation-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-November_15" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#November_15"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">2</span> <span>November 15</span> </div> </a> <button aria-controls="toc-November_15-sublist" class="cdx-button cdx-button--weight-quiet cdx-button--icon-only vector-toc-toggle"> <span class="vector-icon mw-ui-icon-wikimedia-expand"></span> <span>Toggle November 15 subsection</span> </button> <ul id="toc-November_15-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> <li id="toc-Why_are_Koalas_vulnerable_to_extinction" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-2"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Why_are_Koalas_vulnerable_to_extinction"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">2.1</span> <span>Why are Koalas vulnerable to extinction</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">6 comments</span> <ul id="toc-Why_are_Koalas_vulnerable_to_extinction-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Admiral_Nakhimov" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-2"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Admiral_Nakhimov"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">2.2</span> <span>Admiral Nakhimov</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">2 comments</span> <ul id="toc-Admiral_Nakhimov-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Why_don't_plants_photosynthesize_efficiently?" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-2"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Why_don't_plants_photosynthesize_efficiently?"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">2.3</span> <span>Why don't plants photosynthesize efficiently?</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">11 comments</span> <ul id="toc-Why_don't_plants_photosynthesize_efficiently?-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> <li id="toc-What_about_near_volcanos?" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-3"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#What_about_near_volcanos?"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">2.3.1</span> <span>What about near volcanos?</span> </div> </a> <ul id="toc-What_about_near_volcanos?-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Thermometer_thermal_mass" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-2"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Thermometer_thermal_mass"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">2.4</span> <span>Thermometer thermal mass</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">6 comments</span> <ul id="toc-Thermometer_thermal_mass-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-November_17" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#November_17"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">3</span> <span>November 17</span> </div> </a> <button aria-controls="toc-November_17-sublist" class="cdx-button cdx-button--weight-quiet cdx-button--icon-only vector-toc-toggle"> <span class="vector-icon mw-ui-icon-wikimedia-expand"></span> <span>Toggle November 17 subsection</span> </button> <ul id="toc-November_17-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> <li id="toc-A_lead_zeppelin_is_your_stairway_to_heaven?" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-2"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#A_lead_zeppelin_is_your_stairway_to_heaven?"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">3.1</span> <span>A lead zeppelin is your stairway to heaven?</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">13 comments</span> <ul id="toc-A_lead_zeppelin_is_your_stairway_to_heaven?-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Land_surveying" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-2"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Land_surveying"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">3.2</span> <span>Land surveying</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">11 comments</span> <ul id="toc-Land_surveying-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-How_sampling_rate_in_ADC_adjusted_or_set_?" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-2"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#How_sampling_rate_in_ADC_adjusted_or_set_?"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">3.3</span> <span>How sampling rate in ADC adjusted or set ?</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">6 comments</span> <ul id="toc-How_sampling_rate_in_ADC_adjusted_or_set_?-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-November_18" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#November_18"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">4</span> <span>November 18</span> </div> </a> <button aria-controls="toc-November_18-sublist" class="cdx-button cdx-button--weight-quiet cdx-button--icon-only vector-toc-toggle"> <span class="vector-icon mw-ui-icon-wikimedia-expand"></span> <span>Toggle November 18 subsection</span> </button> <ul id="toc-November_18-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> <li id="toc-Open-air_dust_explosions" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-2"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Open-air_dust_explosions"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">4.1</span> <span>Open-air dust explosions</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">5 comments</span> <ul id="toc-Open-air_dust_explosions-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Delayed_onset_muscle_soreness" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-2"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Delayed_onset_muscle_soreness"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">4.2</span> <span>Delayed onset muscle soreness</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">4 comments</span> <ul id="toc-Delayed_onset_muscle_soreness-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-November_20" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#November_20"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">5</span> <span>November 20</span> </div> </a> <button aria-controls="toc-November_20-sublist" class="cdx-button cdx-button--weight-quiet cdx-button--icon-only vector-toc-toggle"> <span class="vector-icon mw-ui-icon-wikimedia-expand"></span> <span>Toggle November 20 subsection</span> </button> <ul id="toc-November_20-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> <li id="toc-John_Balbus_and_Steven_Balbus" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-2"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#John_Balbus_and_Steven_Balbus"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">5.1</span> <span>John Balbus and Steven Balbus</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">3 comments</span> <ul id="toc-John_Balbus_and_Steven_Balbus-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-November_21" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#November_21"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">6</span> <span>November 21</span> </div> </a> <button aria-controls="toc-November_21-sublist" class="cdx-button cdx-button--weight-quiet cdx-button--icon-only vector-toc-toggle"> <span class="vector-icon mw-ui-icon-wikimedia-expand"></span> <span>Toggle November 21 subsection</span> </button> <ul id="toc-November_21-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> <li id="toc-Griffiths_in_math_and_physics" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-2"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Griffiths_in_math_and_physics"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">6.1</span> <span>Griffiths in math and physics</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">10 comments</span> <ul id="toc-Griffiths_in_math_and_physics-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-November_22" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#November_22"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">7</span> <span>November 22</span> </div> </a> <button aria-controls="toc-November_22-sublist" class="cdx-button cdx-button--weight-quiet cdx-button--icon-only vector-toc-toggle"> <span class="vector-icon mw-ui-icon-wikimedia-expand"></span> <span>Toggle November 22 subsection</span> </button> <ul id="toc-November_22-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> <li id="toc-Heat_of_chillies" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-2"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Heat_of_chillies"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">7.1</span> <span>Heat of chillies</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">7 comments</span> <ul id="toc-Heat_of_chillies-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-November_23" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#November_23"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">8</span> <span>November 23</span> </div> </a> <button aria-controls="toc-November_23-sublist" class="cdx-button cdx-button--weight-quiet cdx-button--icon-only vector-toc-toggle"> <span class="vector-icon mw-ui-icon-wikimedia-expand"></span> <span>Toggle November 23 subsection</span> </button> <ul id="toc-November_23-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> <li id="toc-Before_Puberty,_sex_organs_are_not_functional?" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-2"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Before_Puberty,_sex_organs_are_not_functional?"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">8.1</span> <span>Before Puberty, sex organs are not functional?</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">7 comments</span> <ul id="toc-Before_Puberty,_sex_organs_are_not_functional?-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-November_25" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#November_25"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">9</span> <span>November 25</span> </div> </a> <button aria-controls="toc-November_25-sublist" class="cdx-button cdx-button--weight-quiet cdx-button--icon-only vector-toc-toggle"> <span class="vector-icon mw-ui-icon-wikimedia-expand"></span> <span>Toggle November 25 subsection</span> </button> <ul id="toc-November_25-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> <li id="toc-Is_there_a_cryonic_company_that_will_freeze_me_while_I'm_still_alive_and_healthy,_and_reanimate_me_15_years_later?_If_I_arrest_the_aging_process_for_15_years_this_way,_could_I_then_pass_for_a_Gen_Z?" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-2"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Is_there_a_cryonic_company_that_will_freeze_me_while_I'm_still_alive_and_healthy,_and_reanimate_me_15_years_later?_If_I_arrest_the_aging_process_for_15_years_this_way,_could_I_then_pass_for_a_Gen_Z?"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">9.1</span> <span>Is there a cryonic company that will freeze me while I'm still alive and healthy, and reanimate me 15 years later? If I arrest the aging process for 15 years this way, could I then pass for a Gen Z?</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">5 comments</span> <ul id="toc-Is_there_a_cryonic_company_that_will_freeze_me_while_I'm_still_alive_and_healthy,_and_reanimate_me_15_years_later?_If_I_arrest_the_aging_process_for_15_years_this_way,_could_I_then_pass_for_a_Gen_Z?-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Can_any_insurance_company_make_a_cryonics_bankruptcy_insurance_policy_for_companies_that_preserve_bodies_in_cryogenic_preservation_vats_so_that_even_when_the_company_goes_bankrupt,_their_insurance_policies_will_keep_these_vats_running_and_bodies_preserved?" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-2"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Can_any_insurance_company_make_a_cryonics_bankruptcy_insurance_policy_for_companies_that_preserve_bodies_in_cryogenic_preservation_vats_so_that_even_when_the_company_goes_bankrupt,_their_insurance_policies_will_keep_these_vats_running_and_bodies_preserved?"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">9.2</span> <span>Can any insurance company make a cryonics bankruptcy insurance policy for companies that preserve bodies in cryogenic preservation vats so that even when the company goes bankrupt, their insurance policies will keep these vats running and bodies preserved?</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">8 comments</span> <ul id="toc-Can_any_insurance_company_make_a_cryonics_bankruptcy_insurance_policy_for_companies_that_preserve_bodies_in_cryogenic_preservation_vats_so_that_even_when_the_company_goes_bankrupt,_their_insurance_policies_will_keep_these_vats_running_and_bodies_preserved?-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Where_to_verify_a_chemical_compund_name_synonyms?" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-2"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Where_to_verify_a_chemical_compund_name_synonyms?"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">9.3</span> <span>Where to verify a chemical compund name synonyms?</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">4 comments</span> <ul id="toc-Where_to_verify_a_chemical_compund_name_synonyms?-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-November_27" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#November_27"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">10</span> <span>November 27</span> </div> </a> <button aria-controls="toc-November_27-sublist" class="cdx-button cdx-button--weight-quiet cdx-button--icon-only vector-toc-toggle"> <span class="vector-icon mw-ui-icon-wikimedia-expand"></span> <span>Toggle November 27 subsection</span> </button> <ul id="toc-November_27-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> <li id="toc-Right_whales_and_Left_whales" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-2"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Right_whales_and_Left_whales"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">10.1</span> <span>Right whales and Left whales</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">10 comments</span> <ul id="toc-Right_whales_and_Left_whales-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Lawson_Criterion:_calculating_energy_density_W" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-2"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Lawson_Criterion:_calculating_energy_density_W"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">10.2</span> <span>Lawson Criterion: calculating energy density W</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">3 comments</span> <ul id="toc-Lawson_Criterion:_calculating_energy_density_W-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-stage_4_breast_cancer" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-2"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#stage_4_breast_cancer"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">10.3</span> <span>stage 4 breast cancer</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">2 comments</span> <ul id="toc-stage_4_breast_cancer-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-November_28" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#November_28"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">11</span> <span>November 28</span> </div> </a> <button aria-controls="toc-November_28-sublist" class="cdx-button cdx-button--weight-quiet cdx-button--icon-only vector-toc-toggle"> <span class="vector-icon mw-ui-icon-wikimedia-expand"></span> <span>Toggle November 28 subsection</span> </button> <ul id="toc-November_28-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> <li id="toc-Are_there_any_volatile_gold_compounds?" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-2"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Are_there_any_volatile_gold_compounds?"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">11.1</span> <span>Are there any volatile gold compounds?</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">3 comments</span> <ul id="toc-Are_there_any_volatile_gold_compounds?-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Closure,_does_it_exist_in_physics?" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-2"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Closure,_does_it_exist_in_physics?"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">11.2</span> <span>Closure, does it exist in physics?</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">3 comments</span> <ul id="toc-Closure,_does_it_exist_in_physics?-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> </ul> </li> </ul> </div> </div> </nav> </div> </div> <div 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id="vector-page-titlebar-toc-unpinned-container" class="vector-unpinned-container"> </div> </div> </div> </nav> <h1 id="firstHeading" class="firstHeading mw-first-heading">Wikipedia:Reference desk/Science: Difference between revisions</h1> <div id="p-lang-btn" class="vector-dropdown mw-portlet mw-portlet-lang" > <input type="checkbox" id="p-lang-btn-checkbox" role="button" aria-haspopup="true" data-event-name="ui.dropdown-p-lang-btn" class="vector-dropdown-checkbox mw-interlanguage-selector" aria-label="Go to an article in another language. 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28 November 2024</a> <span class="mw-diff-edit"><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Science&action=edit&oldid=1260038943" title="Wikipedia:Reference desk/Science">edit</a></span><span class="mw-diff-timestamp" data-timestamp="2024-11-28T14:12:36Z"></span></strong></div><div id="mw-diff-otitle2"><a href="/wiki/User:HOTmag" class="mw-userlink" title="User:HOTmag" data-mw-revid="1260038943"><bdi>HOTmag</bdi></a> <span class="mw-usertoollinks">(<a href="/wiki/User_talk:HOTmag" class="mw-usertoollinks-talk" title="User talk:HOTmag">talk</a> | <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/HOTmag" class="mw-usertoollinks-contribs" title="Special:Contributions/HOTmag">contribs</a>)</span><div class="mw-diff-usermetadata"><div class="mw-diff-userroles"><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Extended_confirmed_editors" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:Extended confirmed editors">Extended confirmed users</a></div><div class="mw-diff-usereditcount"><span>8,724</span> edits</div></div></div><div id="mw-diff-otitle3"> <span class="comment comment--without-parentheses"><span class="autocomment"><a href="#Closure,_does_it_exist_in_physics?">→<bdi dir="ltr">Closure, does it exist in physics?</bdi></a>: </span> typo</span></div><div id="mw-diff-otitle5"></div><div id="mw-diff-otitle4"><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Science&diff=prev&oldid=1260038943" title="Wikipedia:Reference desk/Science" id="differences-prevlink">← Previous edit</a></div></td> <td colspan="2" class="diff-ntitle diff-side-added"><div id="mw-diff-ntitle1"><strong><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Science&oldid=1260040545" title="Wikipedia:Reference desk/Science">Revision as of 14:24, 28 November 2024</a> <span class="mw-diff-edit"><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Science&action=edit&oldid=1260040545" title="Wikipedia:Reference desk/Science">edit</a></span><span class="mw-diff-timestamp" data-timestamp="2024-11-28T14:24:18Z"></span> <span class="mw-diff-undo"><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Science&action=edit&undoafter=1260038943&undo=1260040545" title=""Undo" reverts this edit and opens the edit form in preview mode. It allows adding a reason in the summary.">undo</a></span></strong></div><div id="mw-diff-ntitle2"><a href="/wiki/User:AlmostReadytoFly" class="mw-userlink" title="User:AlmostReadytoFly" data-mw-revid="1260040545"><bdi>AlmostReadytoFly</bdi></a> <span class="mw-usertoollinks">(<a href="/wiki/User_talk:AlmostReadytoFly" class="mw-usertoollinks-talk" title="User talk:AlmostReadytoFly">talk</a> | <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/AlmostReadytoFly" class="mw-usertoollinks-contribs" title="Special:Contributions/AlmostReadytoFly">contribs</a>)</span><div class="mw-diff-usermetadata"><div class="mw-diff-userroles"><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Extended_confirmed_editors" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:Extended confirmed editors">Extended confirmed users</a></div><div class="mw-diff-usereditcount"><span>2,279</span> edits</div></div></div><div id="mw-diff-ntitle3"> <span class="comment comment--without-parentheses"><span class="autocomment"><a href="#Closure,_does_it_exist_in_physics?">→<bdi dir="ltr">Closure, does it exist in physics?</bdi></a>: </span> <a href="/wiki/Symmetry_(physics)" title="Symmetry (physics)">Symmetry (physics)</a> and <a href="/wiki/Conservation_law" title="Conservation law">Conservation law</a>?</span></div><div id="mw-diff-ntitle5"></div><div id="mw-diff-ntitle4"><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Science&diff=next&oldid=1260040545" title="Wikipedia:Reference desk/Science" id="differences-nextlink">Next edit →</a></div></td> </tr><tr> <td colspan="2" class="diff-lineno">Line 310:</td> <td colspan="2" class="diff-lineno">Line 310:</td> </tr> <tr> <td class="diff-marker"></td> <td class="diff-context diff-side-deleted"><div>::<small>Yes, I really meant Newton (sometimes people tend to replace weight by mass, but this mistake is so widespread - mainly in daily life, that it should be forgiven when readers understand what the speaker meant). Additionally I didn't want to mention the other forces becuase they are not useful in daily life.</small></div></td> <td class="diff-marker"></td> <td class="diff-context diff-side-added"><div>::<small>Yes, I really meant Newton (sometimes people tend to replace weight by mass, but this mistake is so widespread - mainly in daily life, that it should be forgiven when readers understand what the speaker meant). Additionally I didn't want to mention the other forces becuase they are not useful in daily life.</small></div></td> </tr> <tr> <td class="diff-marker"></td> <td class="diff-context diff-side-deleted"><div>::As for your main response, I didn't fully understand it: Do you claim that there don't exist closures in physics, although there are closures in mathematics? [[User:HOTmag|HOTmag]] ([[User talk:HOTmag|talk]]) 14:08, 28 November 2024 (UTC)</div></td> <td class="diff-marker"></td> <td class="diff-context diff-side-added"><div>::As for your main response, I didn't fully understand it: Do you claim that there don't exist closures in physics, although there are closures in mathematics? [[User:HOTmag|HOTmag]] ([[User talk:HOTmag|talk]]) 14:08, 28 November 2024 (UTC)</div></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" class="diff-empty diff-side-deleted"></td> <td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td> <td class="diff-addedline diff-side-added"><div>Are [[Symmetry (physics)]] and [[Conservation law]] what you're after?</div></td> </tr>  </table><hr class='diff-hr' id='mw-oldid' /> <h2 class='diff-currentversion-title'>Revision as of 14:24, 28 November 2024</h2> <div class="mw-content-ltr mw-parser-output" lang="en" dir="ltr"><div style="position:absolute; z-index:100; right:10px; top:0px;" class="metadata" id="refdesk-help-icon"> <p><span typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk" title="Wikipedia:Reference desk"><img src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/8f/P_question.svg/25px-P_question.svg.png" decoding="async" width="25" height="23" class="mw-file-element" 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Do not edit others' comments and do not give any medical or legal advice.</li></ul> </div> <div class="rd-header">See also:</div> <ul class="rd-box"> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Teahouse" title="Wikipedia:Teahouse">Teahouse</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Help_desk" title="Wikipedia:Help desk">Help desk</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Village_pump" title="Wikipedia:Village pump">Village pump</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Help:Contents" title="Help:Contents">Help manual</a></li> </ul> </div> <p><br/> </p><p><br/> </p> <meta property="mw:PageProp/toc"/> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading1"><h1 id="November_14" data-mw-thread-id="h-November_14-20241114201200"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-November_14-20241114201200"></span>November 14<span data-mw-comment-end="h-November_14-20241114201200"></span></h1></div> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Tau_propagation" data-mw-thread-id="h-Tau_propagation-November_14-20241114201200"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Tau_propagation-November_14-20241114201200"></span>Tau propagation<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Tau_propagation-November_14-20241114201200"></span></h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-ExclusiveEditor-20241114201200-Tau_propagation"></span>Create redirect <a href="/w/index.php?title=Tau_propagation&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Tau propagation (page does not exist)">Tau propagation</a> to <s><a href="/wiki/Tau_protein#Tau_hypothesis_of_Alzheimer's_disease" title="Tau protein">Tau_protein#Tau hypothesis of Alzheimer's disease</a></s> which section of <a href="/wiki/Tau_protein" title="Tau protein">Tau protein</a>? <a href="/wiki/User:ExclusiveEditor" title="User:ExclusiveEditor"><span style="background:Orange;color:White;padding:2px;">Exclusive</span><span style="background:black; color:White; padding:2px;">Editor</span></a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:ExclusiveEditor" title="User talk:ExclusiveEditor"><sub>Notify Me!</sub></a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Science#c-ExclusiveEditor-20241114201200-Tau_propagation" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:12, 14 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-ExclusiveEditor-20241114201200-Tau_propagation"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-ExclusiveEditor-20241114201200-Tau_propagation"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Lambiam-20241115053800-ExclusiveEditor-20241114201200"></span>It is a controversial hypothesis that cannot be dealt with with a simple redirect. --<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Lambiam#top" title="User talk:Lambiam">Lambiam</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Science#c-Lambiam-20241115053800-ExclusiveEditor-20241114201200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">05:38, 15 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Lambiam-20241115053800-ExclusiveEditor-20241114201200"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Lambiam-20241115053800-ExclusiveEditor-20241114201200"></span></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading1"><h1 id="November_15" data-mw-thread-id="h-November_15-20241115042200"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-November_15-20241115042200"></span>November 15<span data-mw-comment-end="h-November_15-20241115042200"></span></h1></div> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Why_are_Koalas_vulnerable_to_extinction" data-mw-thread-id="h-Why_are_Koalas_vulnerable_to_extinction-November_15-20241115042200"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Why_are_Koalas_vulnerable_to_extinction-November_15-20241115042200"></span>Why are <a href="/wiki/Koala" title="Koala">Koalas</a> vulnerable to extinction<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Why_are_Koalas_vulnerable_to_extinction-November_15-20241115042200"></span></h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-2605:B100:142:A3B7:1D63:4EBE:694C:7BCA-20241115042200-Why_are_Koalas_vulnerable_to_extinction"></span>Hi. I was wondering why Koalas are vulnerable to extinction unlike Kangaroos, which are way more common, and both animals are found in Australia. Please let me know. Thanks. <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/2605:B100:142:A3B7:1D63:4EBE:694C:7BCA" title="Special:Contributions/2605:B100:142:A3B7:1D63:4EBE:694C:7BCA">2605:B100:142:A3B7:1D63:4EBE:694C:7BCA</a> (<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:2605:B100:142:A3B7:1D63:4EBE:694C:7BCA&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User talk:2605:B100:142:A3B7:1D63:4EBE:694C:7BCA (page does not exist)">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Science#c-2605:B100:142:A3B7:1D63:4EBE:694C:7BCA-20241115042200-Why_are_Koalas_vulnerable_to_extinction" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">04:22, 15 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-2605:B100:142:A3B7:1D63:4EBE:694C:7BCA-20241115042200-Why_are_Koalas_vulnerable_to_extinction"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-2605:B100:142:A3B7:1D63:4EBE:694C:7BCA-20241115042200-Why_are_Koalas_vulnerable_to_extinction"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Baseball_Bugs-20241115045400-2605:B100:142:A3B7:1D63:4EBE:694C:7BCA-20241115042200"></span>The article has some information on it. ←<a href="/wiki/User:Baseball_Bugs" title="User:Baseball Bugs">Baseball Bugs</a> <sup><i><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Baseball_Bugs" title="User talk:Baseball Bugs">What's up, Doc?</a></i></sup> <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Baseball_Bugs" title="Special:Contributions/Baseball Bugs">carrots</a>→ <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Science#c-Baseball_Bugs-20241115045400-2605:B100:142:A3B7:1D63:4EBE:694C:7BCA-20241115042200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">04:54, 15 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Baseball_Bugs-20241115045400-2605:B100:142:A3B7:1D63:4EBE:694C:7BCA-20241115042200"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Baseball_Bugs-20241115045400-2605:B100:142:A3B7:1D63:4EBE:694C:7BCA-20241115042200"></span></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Greglocock-20241115051700-2605:B100:142:A3B7:1D63:4EBE:694C:7BCA-20241115042200"></span>Habitat loss, especially lack of connected habitats, chlamidia, overcrowding, dogs. I doubt they are anywhere near extinct. <a href="/wiki/User:Greglocock" title="User:Greglocock">Greglocock</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Greglocock" title="User talk:Greglocock">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Science#c-Greglocock-20241115051700-2605:B100:142:A3B7:1D63:4EBE:694C:7BCA-20241115042200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">05:17, 15 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Greglocock-20241115051700-2605:B100:142:A3B7:1D63:4EBE:694C:7BCA-20241115042200"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Greglocock-20241115051700-2605:B100:142:A3B7:1D63:4EBE:694C:7BCA-20241115042200"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Alansplodge-20241115114400-Greglocock-20241115051700"></span>It might have been quicker to Google your question - this was one of the first results; <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://www.savethekoala.com/about-koalas/threats-to-the-koala/"><i>Threats To The Koala</i></a>. <a href="/wiki/User:Alansplodge" title="User:Alansplodge">Alansplodge</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Alansplodge" title="User talk:Alansplodge">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Science#c-Alansplodge-20241115114400-Greglocock-20241115051700" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">11:44, 15 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Alansplodge-20241115114400-Greglocock-20241115051700"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Alansplodge-20241115114400-Greglocock-20241115051700"></span></dd></dl></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Graeme_Bartlett-20241115235200-2605:B100:142:A3B7:1D63:4EBE:694C:7BCA-20241115042200"></span>Kangaroos are more flexible in what they eat, and can move large distances faster. But koalas are cuter and so have more public awareness and are used as the poster animal, like <a href="/wiki/Giant_panda" title="Giant panda">giant pandas</a>. <a href="/wiki/User:Graeme_Bartlett" title="User:Graeme Bartlett">Graeme Bartlett</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Graeme_Bartlett" title="User talk:Graeme Bartlett">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Science#c-Graeme_Bartlett-20241115235200-2605:B100:142:A3B7:1D63:4EBE:694C:7BCA-20241115042200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:52, 15 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Graeme_Bartlett-20241115235200-2605:B100:142:A3B7:1D63:4EBE:694C:7BCA-20241115042200"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Graeme_Bartlett-20241115235200-2605:B100:142:A3B7:1D63:4EBE:694C:7BCA-20241115042200"></span></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Wardog-20241119124200-2605:B100:142:A3B7:1D63:4EBE:694C:7BCA-20241115042200"></span>More generally, the more specialised an organism is, the less likely it is to go extinct as a result of competition from other species but the more likely it is to be affected by environmental changes. So Koalas aren't going to have to worry about some other similar animal taking over its territory and taking all the eucalyptus for themselves. But they would be vulnerable to anything that killed off the eucalyptus. <a href="/wiki/User:Wardog" title="User:Wardog">Iapetus</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Wardog" title="User talk:Wardog">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Science#c-Wardog-20241119124200-2605:B100:142:A3B7:1D63:4EBE:694C:7BCA-20241115042200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">12:42, 19 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Wardog-20241119124200-2605:B100:142:A3B7:1D63:4EBE:694C:7BCA-20241115042200"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Wardog-20241119124200-2605:B100:142:A3B7:1D63:4EBE:694C:7BCA-20241115042200"></span></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Admiral_Nakhimov" data-mw-thread-id="h-Admiral_Nakhimov-November_15-20241115145000"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Admiral_Nakhimov-November_15-20241115145000"></span>Admiral Nakhimov<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Admiral_Nakhimov-November_15-20241115145000"></span></h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-2601:646:8082:BA0:CD5E:73B7:6DF6:2CF6-20241115145000-Admiral_Nakhimov"></span>In the time leading up to <a href="/wiki/SS_Admiral_Nakhimov#Sinking" title="SS Admiral Nakhimov">the shipwreck in late August 1986</a>, is it known whether Captain Victor Tkachenko of the <i>Petr Vasev</i> had been transferred there from a smaller ship? Because I've read an article a while ago in <a href="/wiki/Science_et_Vie" class="mw-redirect" title="Science et Vie">Science et Vie</a> (the <a href="/wiki/Nauka_i_Zhizn" title="Nauka i Zhizn">Russian version</a>) about the human factors in that disaster, and this would be the only conclusion which would make any sense! <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/2601:646:8082:BA0:CD5E:73B7:6DF6:2CF6" title="Special:Contributions/2601:646:8082:BA0:CD5E:73B7:6DF6:2CF6">2601:646:8082:BA0:CD5E:73B7:6DF6:2CF6</a> (<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:2601:646:8082:BA0:CD5E:73B7:6DF6:2CF6&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User talk:2601:646:8082:BA0:CD5E:73B7:6DF6:2CF6 (page does not exist)">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Science#c-2601:646:8082:BA0:CD5E:73B7:6DF6:2CF6-20241115145000-Admiral_Nakhimov" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">14:50, 15 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-2601:646:8082:BA0:CD5E:73B7:6DF6:2CF6-20241115145000-Admiral_Nakhimov"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-2601:646:8082:BA0:CD5E:73B7:6DF6:2CF6-20241115145000-Admiral_Nakhimov"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-ExclusiveEditor-20241116205600-2601:646:8082:BA0:CD5E:73B7:6DF6:2CF6-20241115145000"></span>I think the question is better suited at <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:RDH" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:RDH">WP:RDH</a>. <a href="/wiki/User:ExclusiveEditor" title="User:ExclusiveEditor"><span style="background:Orange;color:White;padding:2px;">Exclusive</span><span style="background:black; color:White; padding:2px;">Editor</span></a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:ExclusiveEditor" title="User talk:ExclusiveEditor"><sub>Notify Me!</sub></a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Science#c-ExclusiveEditor-20241116205600-2601:646:8082:BA0:CD5E:73B7:6DF6:2CF6-20241115145000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:56, 16 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-ExclusiveEditor-20241116205600-2601:646:8082:BA0:CD5E:73B7:6DF6:2CF6-20241115145000"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-ExclusiveEditor-20241116205600-2601:646:8082:BA0:CD5E:73B7:6DF6:2CF6-20241115145000"></span></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Why_don't_plants_photosynthesize_efficiently?" data-mw-thread-id="h-Why_don't_plants_photosynthesize_efficiently?-November_15-20241115205400"><span id="Why_don.27t_plants_photosynthesize_efficiently.3F"></span><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Why_don't_plants_photosynthesize_efficiently?-November_15-20241115205400"></span>Why don't plants photosynthesize efficiently?<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Why_don't_plants_photosynthesize_efficiently?-November_15-20241115205400"></span></h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><a href="/wiki/Photosynthesis" title="Photosynthesis"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Card_Zero-20241115205400-Why_don't_plants_photosynthesize_efficiently?"></span>Photosynthesis</a> is 6% efficient in green plants, 20% in solar panels. I see hints that it's more efficient in <a href="/wiki/Red_algae" title="Red algae">red algae</a>, but I can't find a figure. They need to be efficient because they live in low light environments. There's a note here at <a href="/wiki/Artificial_photosynthesis#Some_advantages,_disadvantages,_and_efficiency" title="Artificial photosynthesis">Artificial_photosynthesis#Some_advantages,_disadvantages,_and_efficiency</a> which says photosynthesis is typically 1% efficient! What's up with that? Something about not having enough CO2 around in the air to have any use for the energy? I found <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://www.quantamagazine.org/why-are-plants-green-to-reduce-the-noise-in-photosynthesis-20200730/">this article</a> which says <style data-mw-deduplicate="TemplateStyles:r1248585704">@media screen{html.skin-theme-clientpref-night .mw-parser-output .inline-quote-talk{color:#00B785}}@media screen and (prefers-color-scheme:dark){html.skin-theme-clientpref-os .mw-parser-output .inline-quote-talk{color:#00B785}}.mw-parser-output .inline-quote-talk{font-family:Georgia,"DejaVu Serif",serif;color:#008560;quotes:none}.mw-parser-output .inline-quote-talk-italic{font-family:inherit;font-style:italic}.mw-parser-output .inline-quote-talk-marks{quotes:"\"""\""}</style><q class="inline-quote-talk">For the cell, a steady input of electrical energy coupled to a steady output of chemical energy is best: Too few electrons reaching the reaction center can cause an energy failure, while “too much energy will cause free radicals and all sorts of overcharging effects” that damage tissues</q>, but that seems to boil down to "the cells can't do it". <a href="/wiki/User:Card_Zero" title="User:Card Zero"><span style="background-color:#fffff0; border:1px #995; border-style:dotted solid solid dotted;"> Card Zero </span></a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Card_Zero" title="User talk:Card Zero">(talk)</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Science#c-Card_Zero-20241115205400-Why_don't_plants_photosynthesize_efficiently?" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:54, 15 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Card_Zero-20241115205400-Why_don't_plants_photosynthesize_efficiently?"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Card_Zero-20241115205400-Why_don't_plants_photosynthesize_efficiently?"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Baseball_Bugs-20241115225500-Card_Zero-20241115205400"></span>Evolution doesn't necessarily aim for perfection, just for survival. If that 6 percent is good enough for survival, there would likely be no evolutionary pressure to do it "better". ←<a href="/wiki/User:Baseball_Bugs" title="User:Baseball Bugs">Baseball Bugs</a> <sup><i><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Baseball_Bugs" title="User talk:Baseball Bugs">What's up, Doc?</a></i></sup> <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Baseball_Bugs" title="Special:Contributions/Baseball Bugs">carrots</a>→ <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Science#c-Baseball_Bugs-20241115225500-Card_Zero-20241115205400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:55, 15 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Baseball_Bugs-20241115225500-Card_Zero-20241115205400"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Baseball_Bugs-20241115225500-Card_Zero-20241115205400"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Card_Zero-20241115231500-Baseball_Bugs-20241115225500"></span>Trees compete for light, so there's some pressure to grow faster, isn't there? <a href="/wiki/User:Card_Zero" title="User:Card Zero"><span style="background-color:#fffff0; border:1px #995; border-style:dotted solid solid dotted;"> Card Zero </span></a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Card_Zero" title="User talk:Card Zero">(talk)</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Science#c-Card_Zero-20241115231500-Baseball_Bugs-20241115225500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:15, 15 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Card_Zero-20241115231500-Baseball_Bugs-20241115225500"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Card_Zero-20241115231500-Baseball_Bugs-20241115225500"></span></dd></dl></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Graeme_Bartlett-20241115232300-Card_Zero-20241115205400"></span>If you want to compare solar panel effiency, you should compare production of a chemical like glucose from carbon dioxide using electricity. Or should we allow any other reduced and useful carbon compound. As plants do not just produce electricity. <a href="/wiki/User:Graeme_Bartlett" title="User:Graeme Bartlett">Graeme Bartlett</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Graeme_Bartlett" title="User talk:Graeme Bartlett">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Science#c-Graeme_Bartlett-20241115232300-Card_Zero-20241115205400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:23, 15 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Graeme_Bartlett-20241115232300-Card_Zero-20241115205400"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Graeme_Bartlett-20241115232300-Card_Zero-20241115205400"></span></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-176.2.78.14-20241116060200-Card_Zero-20241115205400"></span>Photosynthesis in plants can be very efficient under the right conditions. For instance, from photon to hydrogen/ATP it is nearly 100%,because the difference to really 100% is what destroys the chlorophyll. And replacing destroyed chlorophyll is costly, energywise and sometimes it even costs magnesium. Therefore that part is developed to maximize efficiency. Another goal is in the development of the carbon dioxide capture. For this one must know that chemical reactions with gases are very dependent on the pressure of the gases. Even the direction, that is if it's exothermic or endothermic, depends highly on the pressure. If RuBisCo would be faster the carbon dioxide could not come fast enough onto the site of enzymatic activity and would therefore drop in pressure there. Which in turn would drive the demand for energy up in this pathway. To overcome the RuBisCo-limit the C4 plants were developed. But they have other deficiencies, where they additionally spend energy to capture carbon dioxide for storage, and don't get it back at the RuBisCo.</dd> <dd>Generally plants have too much energy for the amount of water and, most important, carbon dioxide, to synthesize sugar. Some hydrogen has to be dumped into the production of <a href="/wiki/Ethen" title="Ethen">Ethen</a> and <a href="/wiki/Latex" title="Latex">Latex</a> or other hydrocarbons. Of course, the energy for this is typically not counted towards the efficiency of photosynthesis. Moreover some ATP is simply hydrolysed for heating. Or for regeneration of ADP. Whichever is needed where this takes place.</dd> <dd>For comparison there exist bacteria where chemical reactions are driven by 1/16th of a proton, that is 1/64 ATP-Unit. That only works with a large <a href="/wiki/Quantum_state" title="Quantum state">Quantum state</a> in a superposition. If someone would want to maximise the efficiency of the photosynthesis, the recipe is there for the taking. But think of the side effects! <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/176.2.78.14" title="Special:Contributions/176.2.78.14">176.2.78.14</a> (<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:176.2.78.14&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User talk:176.2.78.14 (page does not exist)">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Science#c-176.2.78.14-20241116060200-Card_Zero-20241115205400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">06:02, 16 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-176.2.78.14-20241116060200-Card_Zero-20241115205400"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-176.2.78.14-20241116060200-Card_Zero-20241115205400"></span> <dl><dd><dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Avocado-20241116142100-176.2.78.14-20241116060200"></span>For this one must know that chemical reactions with gases are very dependent on the pressure of the gases. Even the direction, that is if it's exothermic or endothermic, depends highly on the pressure. If RuBisCo would be faster the carbon dioxide could not come fast enough onto the site of enzymatic activity and would therefore drop in pressure there.</dd></dl></dd> <dd>Does this mean that plants photosynthesize more efficiently in environments with elevated air pressure? Can you recommend any resources for learning more about that? Thank you! -- <a href="/wiki/User:Avocado" title="User:Avocado">Avocado</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Avocado" title="User talk:Avocado">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Science#c-Avocado-20241116142100-176.2.78.14-20241116060200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">14:21, 16 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Avocado-20241116142100-176.2.78.14-20241116060200"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Avocado-20241116142100-176.2.78.14-20241116060200"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Michael_D._Turnbull-20241120125700-Avocado-20241116142100"></span>@<a href="/wiki/User:Avocado" title="User:Avocado">Avocado</a> Not air pressure but partial pressure of carbon dioxide. That's standard in greenhouses. See <a href="/wiki/Greenhouse#Carbon_dioxide_enrichment" title="Greenhouse">Greenhouse#Carbon dioxide enrichment</a> for details. <a href="/wiki/User:Michael_D._Turnbull" title="User:Michael D. Turnbull">Mike Turnbull</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Michael_D._Turnbull" title="User talk:Michael D. Turnbull">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Science#c-Michael_D._Turnbull-20241120125700-Avocado-20241116142100" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">12:57, 20 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Michael_D._Turnbull-20241120125700-Avocado-20241116142100"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Michael_D._Turnbull-20241120125700-Avocado-20241116142100"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Avocado-20241120210200-Michael_D._Turnbull-20241120125700"></span>Thank you! Is there any research about elevated air pressure, too? IIRC, humans absorb oxygen more efficiently at higher air pressures (up to a point), so it seems like it might make sense (based on both that and what little I know about gas exchange across membranes) for plants to absorb CO2 better at higher air pressures as well. -- <a href="/wiki/User:Avocado" title="User:Avocado">Avocado</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Avocado" title="User talk:Avocado">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Science#c-Avocado-20241120210200-Michael_D._Turnbull-20241120125700" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:02, 20 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Avocado-20241120210200-Michael_D._Turnbull-20241120125700"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Avocado-20241120210200-Michael_D._Turnbull-20241120125700"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-176.3.66.65-20241122230400-Avocado-20241120210200"></span>humans are developed to an oxygen pressure of 0,22 atm. Over it there are many reactions that disturb the physiology, under it there is to over 0,17 atm no difference as long as no (not the least amount) <a href="/wiki/Carbon_monoxide" title="Carbon monoxide">Carbon monoxide</a> comes into play. But even 0,11 atm is sufficient for up to 2 hours. At this low pressure of oxygen no normal combustion is possible but nobody needs an oxygen mask immediately. In case of a fire that is a great advantage for fire fighting. <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/176.3.66.65" title="Special:Contributions/176.3.66.65">176.3.66.65</a> (<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:176.3.66.65&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User talk:176.3.66.65 (page does not exist)">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Science#c-176.3.66.65-20241122230400-Avocado-20241120210200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:04, 22 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-176.3.66.65-20241122230400-Avocado-20241120210200"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-176.3.66.65-20241122230400-Avocado-20241120210200"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading3"><h3 id="What_about_near_volcanos?" data-mw-thread-id="h-What_about_near_volcanos?-Why_don't_plants_photosynthesize_efficiently?-20241116124200"><span id="What_about_near_volcanos.3F"></span><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-What_about_near_volcanos?-Why_don't_plants_photosynthesize_efficiently?-20241116124200"></span>What about near volcanos?<span data-mw-comment-end="h-What_about_near_volcanos?-Why_don't_plants_photosynthesize_efficiently?-20241116124200"></span></h3></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Card_Zero-20241116124200-What_about_near_volcanos?"></span>Are there specialized plants growing in carbon dioxide rich environments that photosynthesize faster? <a href="/wiki/User:Card_Zero" title="User:Card Zero"><span style="background-color:#fffff0; border:1px #995; border-style:dotted solid solid dotted;"> Card Zero </span></a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Card_Zero" title="User talk:Card Zero">(talk)</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Science#c-Card_Zero-20241116124200-What_about_near_volcanos?" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">12:42, 16 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Card_Zero-20241116124200-What_about_near_volcanos?"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Card_Zero-20241116124200-What_about_near_volcanos?"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Abductive-20241116210700-Card_Zero-20241116124200"></span>No. I heard there are only a few places where there is consistent outgassing of CO<sub>2</sub> and yes, plants grow faster there. The thing is, plants are so starved for CO<sub>2</sub> that increasing CO<sub>2</sub> concentration instantaneously leads to increased sugar production. We think that the current photosynthesis evolved in a time when the atmosphere was like Venus's with perhaps 100 times the partial pressure of CO<sub>2</sub>. Even now, you can put a houseplant in a pure CO<sub>2</sub> atmosphere in a glass vessel, and it does great. Another way of putting this is that there can be no natural selection for specialization in growing in a "carbon dioxide rich environment" since that would entail getting <i>worse</i> at using CO<sub>2</sub>. <span style="font-family: Cambria;"> <a href="/wiki/User:Abductive" title="User:Abductive"><span style="color: teal;"><b>Abductive</b></span></a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Abductive" title="User talk:Abductive">reasoning</a>)</span> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Science#c-Abductive-20241116210700-Card_Zero-20241116124200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:07, 16 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Abductive-20241116210700-Card_Zero-20241116124200"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Abductive-20241116210700-Card_Zero-20241116124200"></span></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Thermometer_thermal_mass" data-mw-thread-id="h-Thermometer_thermal_mass-November_15-20241115221200"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Thermometer_thermal_mass-November_15-20241115221200"></span>Thermometer thermal mass<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Thermometer_thermal_mass-November_15-20241115221200"></span></h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-2601:644:8581:75B0:0:0:0:2CDE-20241115221200-Thermometer_thermal_mass"></span>I'd like to measure the air temperature in a room, outdoors, etc. Ideally by bringing the thermometer, turning it on if it is electronic, and looking at it. All thermometers that I've tried take several minutes to settle, which is annoyingly long. Is that inherent? Are there quicker ones? Don't want to spend a fortune, but "premium" is ok. Thanks. <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/2601:644:8581:75B0:0:0:0:2CDE" title="Special:Contributions/2601:644:8581:75B0:0:0:0:2CDE">2601:644:8581:75B0:0:0:0:2CDE</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:2601:644:8581:75B0:0:0:0:2CDE" title="User talk:2601:644:8581:75B0:0:0:0:2CDE">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Science#c-2601:644:8581:75B0:0:0:0:2CDE-20241115221200-Thermometer_thermal_mass" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:12, 15 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-2601:644:8581:75B0:0:0:0:2CDE-20241115221200-Thermometer_thermal_mass"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-2601:644:8581:75B0:0:0:0:2CDE-20241115221200-Thermometer_thermal_mass"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Graeme_Bartlett-20241115234500-2601:644:8581:75B0:0:0:0:2CDE-20241115221200"></span>For an expensive high-tech solution use <a href="/wiki/Tunable_diode_laser_absorption_spectroscopy" title="Tunable diode laser absorption spectroscopy">tunable diode laser absorption spectroscopy</a> which should measure the temperature in the gas, rather than waiting for it to conduct into a detector. see <a rel="nofollow" class="external free" href="https://www.yokogawa.com/solutions/products-and-services/measurement/analyzers/gas-analyzers/tunable-diode-laser-spectrometer/#Overview">https://www.yokogawa.com/solutions/products-and-services/measurement/analyzers/gas-analyzers/tunable-diode-laser-spectrometer/#Overview</a> for a product. <a href="/wiki/User:Graeme_Bartlett" title="User:Graeme Bartlett">Graeme Bartlett</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Graeme_Bartlett" title="User talk:Graeme Bartlett">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Science#c-Graeme_Bartlett-20241115234500-2601:644:8581:75B0:0:0:0:2CDE-20241115221200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:45, 15 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Graeme_Bartlett-20241115234500-2601:644:8581:75B0:0:0:0:2CDE-20241115221200"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Graeme_Bartlett-20241115234500-2601:644:8581:75B0:0:0:0:2CDE-20241115221200"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-176.2.78.14-20241116013600-Graeme_Bartlett-20241115234500"></span>a really cheap way to go at it would be <a href="/wiki/Resistance_thermometer#Coiled_elements" title="Resistance thermometer">Resistance thermometer</a> of course in <a href="/wiki/Resistance_thermometer#Four-wire_configuration" title="Resistance thermometer">Four-wire configuration</a>. If the coil is very short, which is possible in four wires, then it will get the temperature in under a second. <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/176.2.78.14" title="Special:Contributions/176.2.78.14">176.2.78.14</a> (<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:176.2.78.14&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User talk:176.2.78.14 (page does not exist)">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Science#c-176.2.78.14-20241116013600-Graeme_Bartlett-20241115234500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:36, 16 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-176.2.78.14-20241116013600-Graeme_Bartlett-20241115234500"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-176.2.78.14-20241116013600-Graeme_Bartlett-20241115234500"></span></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-2601:644:8581:75B0:0:0:0:2CDE-20241116024500-Graeme_Bartlett-20241115234500"></span>Thanks both, the resistance thermometer approach sounds promising. The tunable laser page says "request a quote" which means "too expensive for me to think about". <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/2601:644:8581:75B0:0:0:0:2CDE" title="Special:Contributions/2601:644:8581:75B0:0:0:0:2CDE">2601:644:8581:75B0:0:0:0:2CDE</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:2601:644:8581:75B0:0:0:0:2CDE" title="User talk:2601:644:8581:75B0:0:0:0:2CDE">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Science#c-2601:644:8581:75B0:0:0:0:2CDE-20241116024500-Graeme_Bartlett-20241115234500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:45, 16 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-2601:644:8581:75B0:0:0:0:2CDE-20241116024500-Graeme_Bartlett-20241115234500"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-2601:644:8581:75B0:0:0:0:2CDE-20241116024500-Graeme_Bartlett-20241115234500"></span></dd></dl></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-85.76.117.61-20241116154500-2601:644:8581:75B0:0:0:0:2CDE-20241115221200"></span>An <a href="/wiki/Infrared_thermometer" title="Infrared thermometer">infrared thermometer</a> retails at around USD 10, and reacts in less than a second from when you press the button. It doesn't measure air temperature but if you can assume your walls/floors/furniture/etc are about the same temp, it'll work. <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/85.76.117.61" title="Special:Contributions/85.76.117.61">85.76.117.61</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:85.76.117.61" title="User talk:85.76.117.61">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Science#c-85.76.117.61-20241116154500-2601:644:8581:75B0:0:0:0:2CDE-20241115221200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:45, 16 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-85.76.117.61-20241116154500-2601:644:8581:75B0:0:0:0:2CDE-20241115221200"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-85.76.117.61-20241116154500-2601:644:8581:75B0:0:0:0:2CDE-20241115221200"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-2601:644:8581:75B0:0:0:0:2CDE-20241117021300-85.76.117.61-20241116154500"></span>I have one but it is not very consistent between surfaces, and the air temperature can change faster than the furniture temperature. I guess it is better than nothing. Thanks. <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/2601:644:8581:75B0:0:0:0:2CDE" title="Special:Contributions/2601:644:8581:75B0:0:0:0:2CDE">2601:644:8581:75B0:0:0:0:2CDE</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:2601:644:8581:75B0:0:0:0:2CDE" title="User talk:2601:644:8581:75B0:0:0:0:2CDE">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Science#c-2601:644:8581:75B0:0:0:0:2CDE-20241117021300-85.76.117.61-20241116154500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:13, 17 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-2601:644:8581:75B0:0:0:0:2CDE-20241117021300-85.76.117.61-20241116154500"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-2601:644:8581:75B0:0:0:0:2CDE-20241117021300-85.76.117.61-20241116154500"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading1"><h1 id="November_17" data-mw-thread-id="h-November_17-20241117034100"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-November_17-20241117034100"></span>November 17<span data-mw-comment-end="h-November_17-20241117034100"></span></h1></div> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="A_lead_zeppelin_is_your_stairway_to_heaven?" data-mw-thread-id="h-A_lead_zeppelin_is_your_stairway_to_heaven?-November_17-20241117034100"><span id="A_lead_zeppelin_is_your_stairway_to_heaven.3F"></span><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-A_lead_zeppelin_is_your_stairway_to_heaven?-November_17-20241117034100"></span>A <a href="/wiki/Lead_zeppelin" class="mw-redirect" title="Lead zeppelin">lead zeppelin</a> is your <a href="/wiki/Stairway_to_heaven" class="mw-redirect" title="Stairway to heaven">stairway to heaven</a>?<span data-mw-comment-end="h-A_lead_zeppelin_is_your_stairway_to_heaven?-November_17-20241117034100"></span></h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-2601:646:8082:BA0:CD5E:73B7:6DF6:2CF6-20241117034100-A_lead_zeppelin_is_your_stairway_to_heaven?"></span>In terms of fatalities per <a href="/wiki/Passenger-mile" class="mw-redirect" title="Passenger-mile">passenger-mile</a>, and excluding combat losses during <a href="/wiki/World_War_1" class="mw-redirect" title="World War 1">World War 1</a> (but including accidental losses during the same time period), which <a href="/wiki/Airships" class="mw-redirect" title="Airships">airships</a> were more dangerous to fly in, those filled with <a href="/wiki/Hydrogen" title="Hydrogen">hydrogen</a> or with <a href="/wiki/Helium" title="Helium">helium</a>? I'm aware of the argument that helium-filled airships have a narrower <a href="/wiki/Flight_envelope" title="Flight envelope">flight envelope</a>, which causes them <a href="/wiki/USS_Shenandoah" title="USS Shenandoah">to crash</a> <a href="/wiki/USS_Akron" title="USS Akron">more often</a> -- but, on the other hand, the flammability of hydrogen often had the effect of turning an otherwise survivable crash into <a href="/wiki/R-101" class="mw-redirect" title="R-101">one which is fatal for everyone on board</a>, and also created the danger of <a href="/wiki/Dixmude_(airship)" title="Dixmude (airship)">explosion from lightning strike</a> -- so between these two dangers, which one was the greatest? <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/2601:646:8082:BA0:CD5E:73B7:6DF6:2CF6" title="Special:Contributions/2601:646:8082:BA0:CD5E:73B7:6DF6:2CF6">2601:646:8082:BA0:CD5E:73B7:6DF6:2CF6</a> (<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:2601:646:8082:BA0:CD5E:73B7:6DF6:2CF6&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User talk:2601:646:8082:BA0:CD5E:73B7:6DF6:2CF6 (page does not exist)">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Science#c-2601:646:8082:BA0:CD5E:73B7:6DF6:2CF6-20241117034100-A_lead_zeppelin_is_your_stairway_to_heaven?" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">03:41, 17 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-2601:646:8082:BA0:CD5E:73B7:6DF6:2CF6-20241117034100-A_lead_zeppelin_is_your_stairway_to_heaven?"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-2601:646:8082:BA0:CD5E:73B7:6DF6:2CF6-20241117034100-A_lead_zeppelin_is_your_stairway_to_heaven?"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Lambiam-20241117084800-2601:646:8082:BA0:CD5E:73B7:6DF6:2CF6-20241117034100"></span>Is there a source for the claimed explosion? It is not plausible, scientifically. --<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Lambiam#top" title="User talk:Lambiam">Lambiam</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Science#c-Lambiam-20241117084800-2601:646:8082:BA0:CD5E:73B7:6DF6:2CF6-20241117034100" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">08:48, 17 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Lambiam-20241117084800-2601:646:8082:BA0:CD5E:73B7:6DF6:2CF6-20241117034100"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Lambiam-20241117084800-2601:646:8082:BA0:CD5E:73B7:6DF6:2CF6-20241117034100"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Card_Zero-20241117093900-Lambiam-20241117084800"></span>In what way not plausible? If your objection is to do with needing oxygen, that airship probably leaked: six months previously, "many small tears appeared". <a href="/wiki/User:Card_Zero" title="User:Card Zero"><span style="background-color:#fffff0; border:1px #995; border-style:dotted solid solid dotted;"> Card Zero </span></a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Card_Zero" title="User talk:Card Zero">(talk)</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Science#c-Card_Zero-20241117093900-Lambiam-20241117084800" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">09:39, 17 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Card_Zero-20241117093900-Lambiam-20241117084800"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Card_Zero-20241117093900-Lambiam-20241117084800"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Lambiam-20241117101600-Card_Zero-20241117093900"></span>It would leak hydrogen out, not oxygen in. --<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Lambiam#top" title="User talk:Lambiam">Lambiam</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Science#c-Lambiam-20241117101600-Card_Zero-20241117093900" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">10:16, 17 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Lambiam-20241117101600-Card_Zero-20241117093900"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Lambiam-20241117101600-Card_Zero-20241117093900"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Card_Zero-20241117105200-Lambiam-20241117101600"></span>So if a leak of hydrogen into air is hit by lightning, on top of a balloon made from sausage skin that's filled with more hydrogen, how do you imagine events would unfold after that? <a href="/wiki/Hindenburg_disaster#Lightning_hypothesis" title="Hindenburg disaster">Hindenburg_disaster#Lightning_hypothesis</a> says that <i>airship fires have been observed</i> under these kind of circumstances. I'm surprised that they were only fires, it makes the outcome sound mild, like lighting a gas stove. <a href="/wiki/User:Card_Zero" title="User:Card Zero"><span style="background-color:#fffff0; border:1px #995; border-style:dotted solid solid dotted;"> Card Zero </span></a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Card_Zero" title="User talk:Card Zero">(talk)</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Science#c-Card_Zero-20241117105200-Lambiam-20241117101600" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">10:52, 17 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Card_Zero-20241117105200-Lambiam-20241117101600"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Card_Zero-20241117105200-Lambiam-20241117101600"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-PiusImpavidus-20241117140000-Card_Zero-20241117105200"></span>If there's a leak in the gas bags, it's plausible you may get an explosive mixture in the space between the gas bags and the outer hull. What exactly happened to Dixmude may never be known, but whether it was an explosion or rapid burning, too rapid for an orderly emergency landing (Hindenburg burned all its lifting gas in about half a minute), doesn't matter; all on board would be dead anyway. <a href="/wiki/User:PiusImpavidus" title="User:PiusImpavidus">PiusImpavidus</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:PiusImpavidus" title="User talk:PiusImpavidus">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Science#c-PiusImpavidus-20241117140000-Card_Zero-20241117105200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">14:00, 17 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-PiusImpavidus-20241117140000-Card_Zero-20241117105200"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-PiusImpavidus-20241117140000-Card_Zero-20241117105200"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Lambiam-20241117164600-PiusImpavidus-20241117140000"></span>That would indeed explain it. Without prior mixing with oxygen-containing air, hydrogen burns fiercely in a rapidly advancing front, as seen in the Hindenburg disaster, but not so rapid that there is an explosion. --<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Lambiam#top" title="User talk:Lambiam">Lambiam</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Science#c-Lambiam-20241117164600-PiusImpavidus-20241117140000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:46, 17 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Lambiam-20241117164600-PiusImpavidus-20241117140000"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Lambiam-20241117164600-PiusImpavidus-20241117140000"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Lambiam-20241117103000-Lambiam-20241117084800"></span>I found <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://books.google.com/books?id=HHw6AQAAIAAJ&dq=%22the+Dixmude+had+exploded+with+great+violence%22&hl=en">a source</a>, but no explanation. --<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Lambiam#top" title="User talk:Lambiam">Lambiam</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Science#c-Lambiam-20241117103000-Lambiam-20241117084800" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">10:30, 17 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Lambiam-20241117103000-Lambiam-20241117084800"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Lambiam-20241117103000-Lambiam-20241117084800"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Sean.hoyland-20241117103800-Lambiam-20241117103000"></span>According to the footnote in <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://www.theguardian.com/theguardian/2010/dec/29/archive-dixmude-airship-disaster-1923">this</a> republished 1923 article, there was an inquiry in January 1924, so maybe there is a report out there somewhere. <a href="/wiki/User:Sean.hoyland" title="User:Sean.hoyland">Sean.hoyland</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Sean.hoyland" title="User talk:Sean.hoyland">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Science#c-Sean.hoyland-20241117103800-Lambiam-20241117103000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">10:38, 17 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Sean.hoyland-20241117103800-Lambiam-20241117103000"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Sean.hoyland-20241117103800-Lambiam-20241117103000"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-PiusImpavidus-20241117165000-2601:646:8082:BA0:CD5E:73B7:6DF6:2CF6-20241117034100"></span>This is hard to say...</dd> <dd>A helium-filled airship has less lift for the same volume, so it has to compensate somehow: fewer passengers and passenger-kilometres, giving more accidents per passenger-kilometre, or lighter skin, frame or engines or less fuel, all increasing accident rate.</dd> <dd>A helium-filled airship is less likely to burn. The hydrogen fire itself isn't very lethal (except for those sitting high up in the envelope), but it can accelerate the destruction of the airship, leading to a faster crash, and set the skin and fuel on fire, leaving burning wreckage, which can kill passengers.</dd> <dd>A third effect, which you didn't mention, is the <a href="/wiki/Heat_capacity_ratio" title="Heat capacity ratio">heat capacity ratio</a>. Helium has a heat capacity ratio of 1.66, hydrogen of 1.41, just like dry air, and moist air has an even lower heat capacity ratio. This means that on descent, helium heats up by <a href="/wiki/Adiabatic_compression" class="mw-redirect" title="Adiabatic compression">adiabatic compression</a> faster than hydrogen or the surrounding air, increasing the stability of the airship. When flying in slightly superadiabatic dry air, a hydrogen-filled airship is unstable in altitude. If it descends, the lifting gas heats up slower than the surrounding air, decreasing lift and accelerating the descent. This is no problem for helium-filled airships. Those have difficulty changing altitude faster than the time needed to equalise inside and outside temperature.</dd> <dd>When looking at fatalities per passenger-kilometre, it's best to look only at passenger flights. Including military flights, test flights and accidents on the ground will increase the number of accidents without adding passenger-kilometres, making the airship appear more dangerous. Worse, those were the most dangerous occasions for airships. Ground accidents happened when the airship was grounded for bad weather, test flights were obviously more dangerous than regular flights and even when excluding combat damage, military flights were more dangerous as the airship was flown in weather and through manoeuvres that no captain would attempt on a civilian flight. However, excluding all military flights will exclude all helium-filled rigid airships, so no useful statistics are left. The safety record of those four helium-filled rigid airships of the US Navy doesn't appear too good though: three fatal crashes in only a third of the flight hours of Graf Zeppelin. <a href="/wiki/User:PiusImpavidus" title="User:PiusImpavidus">PiusImpavidus</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:PiusImpavidus" title="User talk:PiusImpavidus">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Science#c-PiusImpavidus-20241117165000-2601:646:8082:BA0:CD5E:73B7:6DF6:2CF6-20241117034100" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:50, 17 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-PiusImpavidus-20241117165000-2601:646:8082:BA0:CD5E:73B7:6DF6:2CF6-20241117034100"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-PiusImpavidus-20241117165000-2601:646:8082:BA0:CD5E:73B7:6DF6:2CF6-20241117034100"></span></dd></dl> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Baseball_Bugs-20241117205500-2601:646:8082:BA0:CD5E:73B7:6DF6:2CF6-20241117034100"></span>As noted in <a href="/wiki/List_of_airship_accidents" title="List of airship accidents">List of airship accidents</a>, there is a variety of causes, a number of them being weather-related. The most successful airship was the <a href="/wiki/LZ_127_Graf_Zeppelin" title="LZ 127 Graf Zeppelin">Graf Zeppelin</a>, which was filled with hydrogen, but never burned up or crashed. ←<a href="/wiki/User:Baseball_Bugs" title="User:Baseball Bugs">Baseball Bugs</a> <sup><i><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Baseball_Bugs" title="User talk:Baseball Bugs">What's up, Doc?</a></i></sup> <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Baseball_Bugs" title="Special:Contributions/Baseball Bugs">carrots</a>→ <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Science#c-Baseball_Bugs-20241117205500-2601:646:8082:BA0:CD5E:73B7:6DF6:2CF6-20241117034100" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:55, 17 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Baseball_Bugs-20241117205500-2601:646:8082:BA0:CD5E:73B7:6DF6:2CF6-20241117034100"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Baseball_Bugs-20241117205500-2601:646:8082:BA0:CD5E:73B7:6DF6:2CF6-20241117034100"></span></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Alansplodge-20241119155600-Baseball_Bugs-20241117205500"></span>There were no helium-filled passenger airships - they were all operated for naval reconnaisance. <a href="/wiki/User:Alansplodge" title="User:Alansplodge">Alansplodge</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Alansplodge" title="User talk:Alansplodge">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Science#c-Alansplodge-20241119155600-Baseball_Bugs-20241117205500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:56, 19 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Alansplodge-20241119155600-Baseball_Bugs-20241117205500"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Alansplodge-20241119155600-Baseball_Bugs-20241117205500"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-PiusImpavidus-20241121095700-Alansplodge-20241119155600"></span>There are some modern helium-filled non-rigid or semi-rigid passenger airships, used for sightseeing, but there are no hydrogen-filled modern airships, so there's no useful comparison possible. There are both helium-filled and hydrogen-filled gas balloons, but that isn't really the same thing. <a href="/wiki/User:PiusImpavidus" title="User:PiusImpavidus">PiusImpavidus</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:PiusImpavidus" title="User talk:PiusImpavidus">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Science#c-PiusImpavidus-20241121095700-Alansplodge-20241119155600" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">09:57, 21 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-PiusImpavidus-20241121095700-Alansplodge-20241119155600"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-PiusImpavidus-20241121095700-Alansplodge-20241119155600"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Land_surveying" data-mw-thread-id="h-Land_surveying-November_17-20241117160100"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Land_surveying-November_17-20241117160100"></span>Land surveying<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Land_surveying-November_17-20241117160100"></span></h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-40bus-20241117160100-Land_surveying"></span>Does modern land surveying (such as placement of streets after another, width of roads and blocks etc.) in take place using metric units in countries such as Canada, Australia and New Zealand, which have used metric distances for many decades now? Is there any English-speaking country that had already metricated when first surveys for 19th-century cities were done? Are there any downtown grids in English-speaking areas where streets are placed exactly 100 metres apart, and there are ten streets per one kilometre? In grids that place 16 streets per mile, the number of metres passed eventually deviates from number of 100 metres (hectometres) passed, since one mile is not exactly 1,600 metres. Placing ten streets per mile indicates number of miles passed by fourth-to last digit of house numbers, but does not indicate number of feet (or any other imperial unit) passed by whole number. By contrast, placing ten streets per kilometre indicates both number of kilometres passed by fourt-to last digit of house numbers and number of metres passed by whole house numbers. This placing is common in Argentina, but does it occur in any English-speaking country? --<a href="/wiki/User:40bus" title="User:40bus">40bus</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:40bus" title="User talk:40bus">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Science#c-40bus-20241117160100-Land_surveying" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:01, 17 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-40bus-20241117160100-Land_surveying"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-40bus-20241117160100-Land_surveying"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Sagittarian_Milky_Way-20241118054800-40bus-20241117160100"></span>There are 100 meter blocks in Melbourne, Australia if I remember correctly. Mile/km/block-based addresses is not the original England way which was to count plots or buildings and call an unexpected new building in between the address of its neighbor suffixed with a letter or fraction. Manhattan's a hybrid: 1 address pair per 20ft plot of ownable (non-street) distance except 1 axis is 100 per block causing gaps like 153, 155, 201 except 3LPM5's 100 per 2 blocks cause Lex+Mad are new. <a href="/wiki/User:Sagittarian_Milky_Way" title="User:Sagittarian Milky Way">Sagittarian Milky Way</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Sagittarian_Milky_Way" title="User talk:Sagittarian Milky Way">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Science#c-Sagittarian_Milky_Way-20241118054800-40bus-20241117160100" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">05:48, 18 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Sagittarian_Milky_Way-20241118054800-40bus-20241117160100"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Sagittarian_Milky_Way-20241118054800-40bus-20241117160100"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Alansplodge-20241119153800-Sagittarian_Milky_Way-20241118054800"></span>The Melbourne blocks are 200 metres and then only by a coincidence; they are actually 10 <a href="/wiki/Chain_(unit)" title="Chain (unit)">chains</a> or 660 feet, which happily converts to 201.17 metres. See <a href="/wiki/Hoddle_Grid" title="Hoddle Grid">Hoddle Grid</a> for the details. <a href="/wiki/User:Alansplodge" title="User:Alansplodge">Alansplodge</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Alansplodge" title="User talk:Alansplodge">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Science#c-Alansplodge-20241119153800-Sagittarian_Milky_Way-20241118054800" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:38, 19 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Alansplodge-20241119153800-Sagittarian_Milky_Way-20241118054800"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Alansplodge-20241119153800-Sagittarian_Milky_Way-20241118054800"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-TrogWoolley-20241118094100-Alansplodge-20241119153800"></span>This is a new South Australian development near to where I live and the blocks are measured in metres, but not in nice whole metres. Zoom in and move the map to see details of the blocks. <a rel="nofollow" class="external free" href="https://villawoodproperties.com.au/community/oakden-rise/find-buy/interactive-masterplan/">https://villawoodproperties.com.au/community/oakden-rise/find-buy/interactive-masterplan/</a> <a href="/wiki/User:TrogWoolley" title="User:TrogWoolley">TrogWoolley</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:TrogWoolley" title="User talk:TrogWoolley">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Science#c-TrogWoolley-20241118094100-Alansplodge-20241119153800" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">09:41, 18 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-TrogWoolley-20241118094100-Alansplodge-20241119153800"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-TrogWoolley-20241118094100-Alansplodge-20241119153800"></span></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Sagittarian_Milky_Way-20241120012900-Alansplodge-20241119153800"></span>The same inaccuracy as 16 per mile then. <a href="/wiki/User:Sagittarian_Milky_Way" title="User:Sagittarian Milky Way">Sagittarian Milky Way</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Sagittarian_Milky_Way" title="User talk:Sagittarian Milky Way">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Science#c-Sagittarian_Milky_Way-20241120012900-Alansplodge-20241119153800" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:29, 20 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Sagittarian_Milky_Way-20241120012900-Alansplodge-20241119153800"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Sagittarian_Milky_Way-20241120012900-Alansplodge-20241119153800"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Alansplodge-20241119155400-40bus-20241117160100"></span>Just to note that Australia, South Africa, New Zealand and Canada all began <a href="/wiki/Metrication" title="Metrication">metrication</a> in the 1960s or very early 1970s, so using metric measurements for any official purposes in the 19th-century would be highly improbable. <a href="/wiki/User:Alansplodge" title="User:Alansplodge">Alansplodge</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Alansplodge" title="User talk:Alansplodge">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Science#c-Alansplodge-20241119155400-40bus-20241117160100" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:54, 19 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Alansplodge-20241119155400-40bus-20241117160100"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Alansplodge-20241119155400-40bus-20241117160100"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-40bus-20241119212000-Alansplodge-20241119155400"></span>Is the any English-speaking country that already used metric measurement for official purposes in the 19th century? Was there anything that was measured in metric during <a href="/wiki/Victorian_times" class="mw-redirect" title="Victorian times">Victorian times</a> in the UK? --<a href="/wiki/User:40bus" title="User:40bus">40bus</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:40bus" title="User talk:40bus">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Science#c-40bus-20241119212000-Alansplodge-20241119155400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:20, 19 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-40bus-20241119212000-Alansplodge-20241119155400"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-40bus-20241119212000-Alansplodge-20241119155400"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Card_Zero-20241120062600-40bus-20241119212000"></span>There was apparently a 6 mm government cartridge specification, the <a href="/wiki/6mm_Lee_Navy" title="6mm Lee Navy">6mm Lee Navy</a>. I haven't dug up a contemporary source using mm, but it looks like it was so named even in 1895. (Note though the alternate .236 name.) <a href="/wiki/User:Card_Zero" title="User:Card Zero"><span style="background-color:#fffff0; border:1px #995; border-style:dotted solid solid dotted;"> Card Zero </span></a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Card_Zero" title="User talk:Card Zero">(talk)</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Science#c-Card_Zero-20241120062600-40bus-20241119212000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">06:26, 20 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Card_Zero-20241120062600-40bus-20241119212000"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Card_Zero-20241120062600-40bus-20241119212000"></span> <dl><dd><dl><dd><a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=oR9BAQAAMAAJ&pg=PA480"><i><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Alansplodge-20241120124400-Card_Zero-20241120062600"></span>The Abridgment: Containing Messages of the President of the United States to the Two Houses of Congress</i> (1898) p. 480</a>:</dd> <dd><span class="example" style="font-family: Georgia, 'DejaVu Serif', serif; color: var(--color-content-added, #006400);">"Ten thousand 6 mm. Lee straight pull rifles have been supplied..."</span> <a href="/wiki/User:Alansplodge" title="User:Alansplodge">Alansplodge</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Alansplodge" title="User talk:Alansplodge">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Science#c-Alansplodge-20241120124400-Card_Zero-20241120062600" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">12:44, 20 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Alansplodge-20241120124400-Card_Zero-20241120062600"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Alansplodge-20241120124400-Card_Zero-20241120062600"></span></dd></dl></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Alansplodge-20241120123300-Card_Zero-20241120062600"></span>On the subject of weapons, the <a href="/wiki/QF_2-pounder_naval_gun" title="QF 2-pounder naval gun">QF 2-pounder naval gun</a> of 1915 was made by the very British firm of <a href="/wiki/Vickers" title="Vickers">Vickers</a> and had a calibre of exactly 40 mm, but was known in British service by the weight of its shell in Imperial measure. The use of metric units here may be connected with the acquisition by Vickers of the <a href="/wiki/Maxim_Nordenfelt_Guns_and_Ammunition_Company" title="Maxim Nordenfelt Guns and Ammunition Company">Maxim Nordenfelt Guns and Ammunition Company</a> in 1897, which although a British company, had its origin in the company owned by <a href="/wiki/Thorsten_Nordenfelt" title="Thorsten Nordenfelt">Thorsten Nordenfelt</a>, a Swedish inventor. <a href="/wiki/User:Alansplodge" title="User:Alansplodge">Alansplodge</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Alansplodge" title="User talk:Alansplodge">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Science#c-Alansplodge-20241120123300-Card_Zero-20241120062600" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">12:33, 20 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Alansplodge-20241120123300-Card_Zero-20241120062600"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Alansplodge-20241120123300-Card_Zero-20241120062600"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-PiusImpavidus-20241119193100-Alansplodge-20241119155400"></span>A near miss though. Québec was a French colony using French units until 1763, switched to Imperial units after that, which was only 32 years before France metricated.</dd> <dd>South Africa is an even nearer miss. It (or at least, the Cape Colony) was a Dutch colony until 1795, which is the year when the Netherlands metricated. The British then introduced Imperial units as they took over. Dutch rule was briefly restored in 1803–1806, but it appears this was too short to make the switch to metric. The Boers went their own way, continuing the use of traditional Dutch units (no longer used in the Netherlands) until Imperial units were made the standard in 1922: one of the last countries to switch to Imperial units. <a href="/wiki/User:PiusImpavidus" title="User:PiusImpavidus">PiusImpavidus</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:PiusImpavidus" title="User talk:PiusImpavidus">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Science#c-PiusImpavidus-20241119193100-Alansplodge-20241119155400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:31, 19 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-PiusImpavidus-20241119193100-Alansplodge-20241119155400"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-PiusImpavidus-20241119193100-Alansplodge-20241119155400"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="How_sampling_rate_in_ADC_adjusted_or_set_?" data-mw-thread-id="h-How_sampling_rate_in_ADC_adjusted_or_set_?-November_17-20241117183600"><span id="How_sampling_rate_in_ADC_adjusted_or_set_.3F"></span><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-How_sampling_rate_in_ADC_adjusted_or_set_?-November_17-20241117183600"></span>How sampling rate in ADC adjusted or set ?<span data-mw-comment-end="h-How_sampling_rate_in_ADC_adjusted_or_set_?-November_17-20241117183600"></span></h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-HarryOrange-20241117183600-How_sampling_rate_in_ADC_adjusted_or_set_?"></span>I am interested to learn how sampling rate in <a href="/wiki/Analog-to-digital_converter" title="Analog-to-digital converter">Analog-to-digital converter</a> adjusted or set ? This page: <a href="/wiki/Sampling_(signal_processing)" title="Sampling (signal processing)">Sampling (signal processing)</a> didn't explain how it was adjusted. <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:HarryOrange&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:HarryOrange (page does not exist)">HarryOrange</a> (<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:HarryOrange&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User talk:HarryOrange (page does not exist)">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Science#c-HarryOrange-20241117183600-How_sampling_rate_in_ADC_adjusted_or_set_?" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:36, 17 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-HarryOrange-20241117183600-How_sampling_rate_in_ADC_adjusted_or_set_?"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-HarryOrange-20241117183600-How_sampling_rate_in_ADC_adjusted_or_set_?"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Greglocock-20241117220000-HarryOrange-20241117183600"></span>Do you mean on a black box ADC (the sort of thing you have in a lab), or do you mean on an adc chip? <a href="/wiki/User:Greglocock" title="User:Greglocock">Greglocock</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Greglocock" title="User talk:Greglocock">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Science#c-Greglocock-20241117220000-HarryOrange-20241117183600" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:00, 17 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Greglocock-20241117220000-HarryOrange-20241117183600"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Greglocock-20241117220000-HarryOrange-20241117183600"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-HarryOrange-20241118050300-Greglocock-20241117220000"></span>@<a href="/wiki/User:Greglocock" title="User:Greglocock">Greglocock</a> I mean any typical ADC chip. How Sampling rate is adjusted? <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:HarryOrange&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:HarryOrange (page does not exist)">HarryOrange</a> (<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:HarryOrange&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User talk:HarryOrange (page does not exist)">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Science#c-HarryOrange-20241118050300-Greglocock-20241117220000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">05:03, 18 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-HarryOrange-20241118050300-Greglocock-20241117220000"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-HarryOrange-20241118050300-Greglocock-20241117220000"></span></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Greglocock-20241118060400-Greglocock-20241117220000"></span>I guess you read the data sheet for the chip. eg p41 and 42 here <a rel="nofollow" class="external free" href="https://www.analog.com/media/en/technical-documentation/data-sheets/ad7768-7768-4.pdf">https://www.analog.com/media/en/technical-documentation/data-sheets/ad7768-7768-4.pdf</a> <a href="/wiki/User:Greglocock" title="User:Greglocock">Greglocock</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Greglocock" title="User talk:Greglocock">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Science#c-Greglocock-20241118060400-Greglocock-20241117220000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">06:04, 18 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Greglocock-20241118060400-Greglocock-20241117220000"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Greglocock-20241118060400-Greglocock-20241117220000"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Philvoids-20241119201700-Greglocock-20241118060400"></span>An ADC sampling rate is determined by the data rate of the desired digital audio format. <a href="/wiki/Sampling_(signal_processing)" title="Sampling (signal processing)">This article</a> gives many examples of which 44.1 kHz, 48 kHz, 88.2 kHz and 96 kHz are typical. A designer simply ensures that an ADC chip receives a digital clock signal at appropriate frequency. <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Philvoids&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Philvoids (page does not exist)">Philvoids</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Philvoids" title="User talk:Philvoids">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Science#c-Philvoids-20241119201700-Greglocock-20241118060400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:17, 19 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Philvoids-20241119201700-Greglocock-20241118060400"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Philvoids-20241119201700-Greglocock-20241118060400"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Greglocock-20241119215500-Philvoids-20241119201700"></span>Which is almost irrelevant to the question. An ADC chip or lab instrument can sample at many different rates. <a href="/wiki/User:Greglocock" title="User:Greglocock">Greglocock</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Greglocock" title="User talk:Greglocock">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Science#c-Greglocock-20241119215500-Philvoids-20241119201700" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:55, 19 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Greglocock-20241119215500-Philvoids-20241119201700"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Greglocock-20241119215500-Philvoids-20241119201700"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading1"><h1 id="November_18" data-mw-thread-id="h-November_18-20241118000900"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-November_18-20241118000900"></span>November 18<span data-mw-comment-end="h-November_18-20241118000900"></span></h1></div> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Open-air_dust_explosions" data-mw-thread-id="h-Open-air_dust_explosions-November_18-20241118000900"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Open-air_dust_explosions-November_18-20241118000900"></span>Open-air dust explosions<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Open-air_dust_explosions-November_18-20241118000900"></span></h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><a href="/wiki/Dust_explosion#Conditions_required" title="Dust explosion"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Card_Zero-20241118000900-Open-air_dust_explosions"></span>Dust explosion#Conditions required</a> says <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1248585704"><q class="inline-quote-talk">There are five necessary conditions for a dust explosion</q>. It even has a pointless diagram that arranges the five conditions in a pentagon with "dust explosion" in the middle. Condition 5 is confinement. But further down the page, <a href="/wiki/Dust_explosion#Mechanism" title="Dust explosion">Dust_explosion#Mechanism</a> has a series of photographs demonstrating a dust explosion in open air. And <a href="/wiki/Thermobaric_weapons" class="mw-redirect" title="Thermobaric weapons">thermobaric weapons</a>, although more effective at killing people in confined spaces, seem to explode just fine in the open. So is condition 5, as a "necessary condition", plain wrong, perhaps an exaggeration of the fact that confinement makes a dust explosion more likely? </p><p>Supplementary question: I hear residents of Lahore and Delhi are wondering if their very sooty smog might one day explode. Is this at all plausible? <a href="/wiki/User:Card_Zero" title="User:Card Zero"><span style="background-color:#fffff0; border:1px #995; border-style:dotted solid solid dotted;"> Card Zero </span></a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Card_Zero" title="User talk:Card Zero">(talk)</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Science#c-Card_Zero-20241118000900-Open-air_dust_explosions" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:09, 18 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Card_Zero-20241118000900-Open-air_dust_explosions"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Card_Zero-20241118000900-Open-air_dust_explosions"></span> </p> <dl><dd><dl><dd><span style="font-size:85%;"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Lambiam-20241118065300-Card_Zero-20241118000900"></span>Pointless? It is a five-pointed diagram. --<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Lambiam#top" title="User talk:Lambiam">Lambiam</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Science#c-Lambiam-20241118065300-Card_Zero-20241118000900" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">06:53, 18 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Lambiam-20241118065300-Card_Zero-20241118000900"></span></span><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Lambiam-20241118065300-Card_Zero-20241118000900"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span></dd></dl></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Lambiam-20241118090500-Card_Zero-20241118000900"></span>In general, not only for dust, for <a href="/wiki/Detonation" title="Detonation">detonation</a> to occur, a mix of fuel and oxygen within the <a href="/wiki/Explosive_limits" class="mw-redirect" title="Explosive limits">explosive limits</a> has to be present in a compact largish volume. Upon detonation, the pressure in this volume will rapidly increase tremendously within (typically) microseconds. If the volume is not confined by an enclosure, the gases resulting from the combustion will expand supersonically with a shock wave that may or may not cause damage, depending on the power released and the environment. If the volume is confined by an enclosure, the enclosure may be able to withstand the pressure and contain the gases – possibly with controlled release through <a href="/wiki/Safety_valve" title="Safety valve">safety valves</a>. (See e.g. <a href="/wiki/Pyr%C3%A9olophore" title="Pyréolophore">Pyréolophore</a>.) Otherwise, if the enclosure is broached, the gases will also expand explosively.</dd> <dd>The OSHA fact sheet that is the source of our five-pointed list of conditions is actually about another scenario. It considers the case in which ignition merely leads to <a href="/wiki/Deflagration" title="Deflagration">deflagration</a>, which is much more likely to occur – the mix only has to be within <a href="/wiki/Inflammability_limits" class="mw-redirect" title="Inflammability limits">inflammability limits</a>. The combustion is much slower and does by itself not cause a shock wave. However, although the pressure rises less rapidly, the rise is still dramatic, especially if the volume is contained by an enclosure. If the enclosure cannot withstand the pressure, the gases will also expand explosively, as before.</dd> <dd>So I think a fuel–oxygen explosion can occur in open air, but for this to be an explosion in the strict sense of causing shock waves, the right conditions will only very rarely be fulfilled accidentally. (In thermobaric weapons, they are fulfilled by design.) --<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Lambiam#top" title="User talk:Lambiam">Lambiam</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Science#c-Lambiam-20241118090500-Card_Zero-20241118000900" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">09:05, 18 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Lambiam-20241118090500-Card_Zero-20241118000900"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Lambiam-20241118090500-Card_Zero-20241118000900"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-176.3.66.65-20241122151000-Lambiam-20241118090500"></span>But in the conditions there is no requirement of an accidental event?! <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/176.3.66.65" title="Special:Contributions/176.3.66.65">176.3.66.65</a> (<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:176.3.66.65&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User talk:176.3.66.65 (page does not exist)">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Science#c-176.3.66.65-20241122151000-Lambiam-20241118090500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:10, 22 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-176.3.66.65-20241122151000-Lambiam-20241118090500"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-176.3.66.65-20241122151000-Lambiam-20241118090500"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Lambiam-20241123120000-176.3.66.65-20241122151000"></span>The OSHA fact sheet does not deal with ways to mitigate the risk of intentional explosions, such as may be caused by weapons. You are free to see this as an omission; I doubt though they will agree. --<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Lambiam#top" title="User talk:Lambiam">Lambiam</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Science#c-Lambiam-20241123120000-176.3.66.65-20241122151000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">12:00, 23 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Lambiam-20241123120000-176.3.66.65-20241122151000"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Lambiam-20241123120000-176.3.66.65-20241122151000"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Delayed_onset_muscle_soreness" data-mw-thread-id="h-Delayed_onset_muscle_soreness-November_18-20241118165300"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Delayed_onset_muscle_soreness-November_18-20241118165300"></span><a href="/wiki/Delayed_onset_muscle_soreness" title="Delayed onset muscle soreness">Delayed onset muscle soreness</a><span data-mw-comment-end="h-Delayed_onset_muscle_soreness-November_18-20241118165300"></span></h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-CometVolcano-20241118165300-Delayed_onset_muscle_soreness"></span>How long does it last and how to recover from it? <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:CometVolcano&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:CometVolcano (page does not exist)">CometVolcano</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:CometVolcano" title="User talk:CometVolcano">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Science#c-CometVolcano-20241118165300-Delayed_onset_muscle_soreness" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:53, 18 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-CometVolcano-20241118165300-Delayed_onset_muscle_soreness"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-CometVolcano-20241118165300-Delayed_onset_muscle_soreness"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Amble-20241118171100-CometVolcano-20241118165300"></span>According to the article: "It peaks from 24 to 72 hours, then subsides and disappears up to seven days after exercise." --<a href="/wiki/User:Amble" title="User:Amble">Amble</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Amble" title="User talk:Amble">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Science#c-Amble-20241118171100-CometVolcano-20241118165300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:11, 18 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Amble-20241118171100-CometVolcano-20241118165300"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Amble-20241118171100-CometVolcano-20241118165300"></span></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-AndrewWTaylor-20241119141500-CometVolcano-20241118165300"></span>From the top of this page: <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1248585704"><q class="inline-quote-talk">We don't answer (and may remove) questions that require medical diagnosis..</q>. <a href="/wiki/User:AndrewWTaylor" title="User:AndrewWTaylor">AndrewWTaylor</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:AndrewWTaylor" title="User talk:AndrewWTaylor">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Science#c-AndrewWTaylor-20241119141500-CometVolcano-20241118165300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">14:15, 19 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-AndrewWTaylor-20241119141500-CometVolcano-20241118165300"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-AndrewWTaylor-20241119141500-CometVolcano-20241118165300"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Abductive-20241120102700-AndrewWTaylor-20241119141500"></span>It is said that the soreness is helped by consuming protein. <span style="font-family: Cambria;"> <a href="/wiki/User:Abductive" title="User:Abductive"><span style="color: teal;"><b>Abductive</b></span></a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Abductive" title="User talk:Abductive">reasoning</a>)</span> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Science#c-Abductive-20241120102700-AndrewWTaylor-20241119141500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">10:27, 20 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Abductive-20241120102700-AndrewWTaylor-20241119141500"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Abductive-20241120102700-AndrewWTaylor-20241119141500"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading1"><h1 id="November_20" data-mw-thread-id="h-November_20-20241120194300"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-November_20-20241120194300"></span>November 20<span data-mw-comment-end="h-November_20-20241120194300"></span></h1></div> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="John_Balbus_and_Steven_Balbus" data-mw-thread-id="h-John_Balbus_and_Steven_Balbus-November_20-20241120194300"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-John_Balbus_and_Steven_Balbus-November_20-20241120194300"></span>John Balbus and Steven Balbus<span data-mw-comment-end="h-John_Balbus_and_Steven_Balbus-November_20-20241120194300"></span></h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-178.51.16.158-20241120194300-John_Balbus_and_Steven_Balbus"></span>Are <a href="/wiki/Steven_Balbus" title="Steven Balbus">Steven Balbus</a> (Oxford University astrophysicist) and John Balbus (Head of Office of Climate Change and Health Equity in Biden's <a href="/wiki/United_States_Department_of_Health_and_Human_Services" title="United States Department of Health and Human Services">HHS</a>) related? <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/178.51.16.158" title="Special:Contributions/178.51.16.158">178.51.16.158</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:178.51.16.158" title="User talk:178.51.16.158">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Science#c-178.51.16.158-20241120194300-John_Balbus_and_Steven_Balbus" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:43, 20 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-178.51.16.158-20241120194300-John_Balbus_and_Steven_Balbus"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-178.51.16.158-20241120194300-John_Balbus_and_Steven_Balbus"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-94.1.211.243-20241121021300-178.51.16.158-20241120194300"></span>Given their mutual association with Philadelphia and their strong physical resemblance, it seems very likely, but I haven't been able to find any source confirming it with a cursory web search, so this might take some deep digging (better suited to someone in the USA, not Europe). John Balbus, incidentally, seems to me to be a good candidate for a Wikipedia article. {The poster formerly known as 87.812.230.195} <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/94.1.211.243" title="Special:Contributions/94.1.211.243">94.1.211.243</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:94.1.211.243" title="User talk:94.1.211.243">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Science#c-94.1.211.243-20241121021300-178.51.16.158-20241120194300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:13, 21 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-94.1.211.243-20241121021300-178.51.16.158-20241120194300"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-94.1.211.243-20241121021300-178.51.16.158-20241120194300"></span></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Lambiam-20241121100900-178.51.16.158-20241120194300"></span>They are brothers, with a third brother named Peter.<sup><a rel="nofollow" class="external autonumber" href="https://www.penncharter.com/about-us/news-media/news-details-page/~board/alumni/post/pc-profile-john-balbus-opc78">[1]</a></sup> <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://issuu.com/penncharter/docs/pc_2023fallmagazine_final"><u>Here</u></a> on p. 33 is a photo of Steven en John side by side. Their father was Theodore G. Balbus,<sup><a rel="nofollow" class="external autonumber" href="https://www.legacy.com/us/obituaries/inquirer/name/theodore-balbus-obituary?id=10391295">[2]</a></sup> a radiologist, and their mother Rita S. Frucht.<sup><a rel="nofollow" class="external autonumber" href="https://www.nytimes.com/1952/01/28/archives/rita-s-frucht-married-bride-of-dr-theodore-g-balbus-at-ceremony-in.html">[3]</a></sup> A bio of the father is found <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://lm0610.wordpress.com/"><u>here</u></a>, where you can also find that Peter runs a consulting firm called Pragmaxis. --<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Lambiam#top" title="User talk:Lambiam">Lambiam</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Science#c-Lambiam-20241121100900-178.51.16.158-20241120194300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">10:09, 21 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Lambiam-20241121100900-178.51.16.158-20241120194300"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Lambiam-20241121100900-178.51.16.158-20241120194300"></span></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading1"><h1 id="November_21" data-mw-thread-id="h-November_21-20241121193700"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-November_21-20241121193700"></span>November 21<span data-mw-comment-end="h-November_21-20241121193700"></span></h1></div> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Griffiths_in_math_and_physics" data-mw-thread-id="h-Griffiths_in_math_and_physics-November_21-20241121193700"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Griffiths_in_math_and_physics-November_21-20241121193700"></span>Griffiths in math and physics<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Griffiths_in_math_and_physics-November_21-20241121193700"></span></h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Gongula_Spring-20241121193700-Griffiths_in_math_and_physics"></span>There's something called the <a href="https://arxiv.org/abs/1009.0395" class="extiw" title="arxiv:1009.0395">Griffiths phase</a>. If you search for griffiths phase activity <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://arxiv.org/search/?query=griffiths+phase+activity&searchtype=all&source=header">so</a>, you'll find things with similar names. A Griffiths singularity, Griffiths effects, there's probably more than one thing people call Griffiths' formula since there's a physicist called <a href="/wiki/Phillip_Griffiths" title="Phillip Griffiths">Phillip</a> and two named <a href="/wiki/David_J._Griffiths" title="David J. Griffiths">David J. Griffiths</a>. How many things are we dealing with under this name? Is there a book where they're all listed right next to each other? <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Gongula_Spring&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Gongula Spring (page does not exist)">Gongula Spring</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Gongula_Spring" title="User talk:Gongula Spring">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Science#c-Gongula_Spring-20241121193700-Griffiths_in_math_and_physics" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:37, 21 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Gongula_Spring-20241121193700-Griffiths_in_math_and_physics"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Gongula_Spring-20241121193700-Griffiths_in_math_and_physics"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Lambiam-20241121234300-Gongula_Spring-20241121193700"></span>The concept of a Griffiths phase is named after theoretical physicist <a href="/wiki/Robert_B._Griffiths" class="mw-redirect" title="Robert B. Griffiths">Robert B. Griffiths</a>, who was the first to describe the appearance of such phases in an <a href="/wiki/Ising_model" title="Ising model">Ising model</a> of <a href="/wiki/Ferromagnetism" title="Ferromagnetism">ferromagnetism</a>.<sup><a rel="nofollow" class="external autonumber" href="https://journals.aps.org/prl/abstract/10.1103/PhysRevLett.23.17">[4]</a></sup> He is also the eponym of the <a href="/wiki/Griffiths_inequality" title="Griffiths inequality">Griffiths inequality</a>. Most uses of <i>Griffiths singularity</i> and <i>Griffiths effect</i> appear to be related. "Griffiths' formula" is a very general name that may refer to various formulas found by mathematicians with the surname Griffiths, such as Griffiths' integral formula for the <a href="/wiki/Milnor_number" title="Milnor number">Milnor number</a> of an isolated hypersurface singularity, found by pure mathematician <a href="/wiki/Philip_A._Griffiths" class="mw-redirect" title="Philip A. Griffiths">Philip A. Griffiths</a>, also the eponym of the <a href="/wiki/Griffiths_group" title="Griffiths group">Griffiths group</a>. See also <a href="/wiki/Griffiths%27_theorem" title="Griffiths' theorem">Griffiths' theorem</a>, named after yet another Griffiths. --<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Lambiam#top" title="User talk:Lambiam">Lambiam</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Science#c-Lambiam-20241121234300-Gongula_Spring-20241121193700" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:43, 21 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Lambiam-20241121234300-Gongula_Spring-20241121193700"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Lambiam-20241121234300-Gongula_Spring-20241121193700"></span> <dl><dd><a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10704-024-00786-3"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Askedonty-20241122001300-Lambiam-20241121234300"></span>That formulation</a> seems at least superficially be leading to references to <a href="/wiki/Alan_Arnold_Griffith" title="Alan Arnold Griffith">Alan Arnold Griffith</a>. Formulas like <i>ohmic or non ohmic dissipation in metallic griffiths phases</i> used at <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://allthingsfsu.blogspot.com/2017/08/fsu-lab-sets-new-magnet-strength-record.html">the National High Magnetic Field Laboratory</a> then tend to appear ambiguous to that effect too. Most other examples are deeply plunging into statistical quanta states thus unambiguously associated with Robert B. Griffiths instead. --<a href="/wiki/User:Askedonty" title="User:Askedonty">Askedonty</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Askedonty" title="User talk:Askedonty">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Science#c-Askedonty-20241122001300-Lambiam-20241121234300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:13, 22 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Askedonty-20241122001300-Lambiam-20241121234300"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Askedonty-20241122001300-Lambiam-20241121234300"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Lambiam-20241122084700-Askedonty-20241122001300"></span>The bracketing is not as in ((Griffith phase) field theory) but like (Griffith ((phase field) theory)), a theory of fracture, based on a phase-field model, developed by Griffith. --<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Lambiam#top" title="User talk:Lambiam">Lambiam</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Science#c-Lambiam-20241122084700-Askedonty-20241122001300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">08:47, 22 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Lambiam-20241122084700-Askedonty-20241122001300"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Lambiam-20241122084700-Askedonty-20241122001300"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Askedonty-20241122105100-Lambiam-20241122084700"></span>The interesting thing is that those approaches are leading us very near of a (a least to me ) finally rather satisfying view of the problematics induced by the idea of <a href="/wiki/Action_at_a_distance" title="Action at a distance">Action at a distance</a>. --<a href="/wiki/User:Askedonty" title="User:Askedonty">Askedonty</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Askedonty" title="User talk:Askedonty">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Science#c-Askedonty-20241122105100-Lambiam-20241122084700" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">10:51, 22 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Askedonty-20241122105100-Lambiam-20241122084700"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Askedonty-20241122105100-Lambiam-20241122084700"></span></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Askedonty-20241122110000-Lambiam-20241122084700"></span>So much that you only have to think about it and what do you get? <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://arxiv.org/pdf/1111.5364#:~:text=Robert%20Griffiths%20begins%20his%20recent%20paper%20Quantum%20Locality,long%20distances%2C%20in%20apparent%20contradiction%20to%20special%20relativity%E2%80%9D.">Long distances in apparent contradiction to..</a> --<a href="/wiki/User:Askedonty" title="User:Askedonty">Askedonty</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Askedonty" title="User talk:Askedonty">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Science#c-Askedonty-20241122110000-Lambiam-20241122084700" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">11:00, 22 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Askedonty-20241122110000-Lambiam-20241122084700"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Askedonty-20241122110000-Lambiam-20241122084700"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Gongula_Spring-20241122155400-Askedonty-20241122110000"></span>I'm not sure if these long distances anticipate my next question, which is what does "long-range" mean in the <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://arxiv.org/search/?query=griffiths+phase+activity&searchtype=all&source=header">search</a> results above?</dd> <dd><a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Gongula_Spring&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Gongula Spring (page does not exist)">Gongula Spring</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Gongula_Spring" title="User talk:Gongula Spring">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Science#c-Gongula_Spring-20241122155400-Askedonty-20241122110000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:54, 22 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Gongula_Spring-20241122155400-Askedonty-20241122110000"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Gongula_Spring-20241122155400-Askedonty-20241122110000"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Askedonty-20241122163900-Gongula_Spring-20241122155400"></span>Perhaps, as in #16 from that request as I get it "Temporal disorder in discontinuous non-equilibrium phase transitions: general results". The "long distances" discussion above being from 2002 by contrast. --<a href="/wiki/User:Askedonty" title="User:Askedonty">Askedonty</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Askedonty" title="User talk:Askedonty">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Science#c-Askedonty-20241122163900-Gongula_Spring-20241122155400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:39, 22 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Askedonty-20241122163900-Gongula_Spring-20241122155400"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Askedonty-20241122163900-Gongula_Spring-20241122155400"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Gongula_Spring-20241122170500-Askedonty-20241122163900"></span>Number 16 uses "temporal" and "critical" terms, are we getting toward <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="http://criticaloscillations.org/publications.html">ideas</a> <a href="//doi.org/10.1101/2022.12.14.519751" class="extiw" title="doi:10.1101/2022.12.14.519751">about</a> long-range temporal correlations in critical brain dynamics? Are they spooky?</dd> <dd><a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Gongula_Spring&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Gongula Spring (page does not exist)">Gongula Spring</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Gongula_Spring" title="User talk:Gongula Spring">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Science#c-Gongula_Spring-20241122170500-Askedonty-20241122163900" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:05, 22 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Gongula_Spring-20241122170500-Askedonty-20241122163900"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Gongula_Spring-20241122170500-Askedonty-20241122163900"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Askedonty-20241123210300-Gongula_Spring-20241122170500"></span>I don't think so. Or not so directly anyway. Number 16 seem to be about logic and geometry: distance in that context is fact, and can also be manipulated. Relevant quote if there was one regarding our subject - but their process define a temporal Griffiths inactive phase some time - relevant would be (see their pdf): <i></i> <dl><dd>Disorder due to spatial or temporal inhomogeneities is almost an unavoidable ingredient in many real systems, it is then desirable to understand their effects on these phase transitions. For continuous phase transitions, it was earlier recognized that spatial and temporal disorder changes the critical behavior whenever the generalized Harris criterion is violated [11, 12]: quenched spatial disorder is relevant whenever dν⊥ > 2 is violated while temporal disorder is relevant when νk = zν⊥ > 2 is violated; with ν⊥, νk and z being critical exponents of the clean phase transition and d being the number of spatial dimensions. Since the critical exponents of the directed percolation universality class violate the Harris criterion, it was then argued that this was the reason why it was <b>never seen</b> in experiments [13] (see however Ref. 14).<i></i></dd></dl></dd> <dd>(They describe their purpose as: <i>Non-equilibrium phase transitions have constituted a rich and lively topic of research for many years. They occur in a wide variety of models in ecology [1], epidemic spreading [2], sociophysics [3], catalytic reactions [4], depinning interface growth [5, 6], turbulent flow [7], among other fields [8–10].</i>) [8–10] refer to Nonequilibrium Phase Transitions in Lattice Models. Sociophysics is a product of <a href="/wiki/Positivism#Logical_positivism" title="Positivism">Positivism#Logical positivism</a> ( perhaps note there a <i>spooky</i> "component not derived from observation" ) --<a href="/wiki/User:Askedonty" title="User:Askedonty">Askedonty</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Askedonty" title="User talk:Askedonty">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Science#c-Askedonty-20241123210300-Gongula_Spring-20241122170500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:03, 23 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Askedonty-20241123210300-Gongula_Spring-20241122170500"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Askedonty-20241123210300-Gongula_Spring-20241122170500"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading1"><h1 id="November_22" data-mw-thread-id="h-November_22-20241122012700"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-November_22-20241122012700"></span>November 22<span data-mw-comment-end="h-November_22-20241122012700"></span></h1></div> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Heat_of_chillies" data-mw-thread-id="h-Heat_of_chillies-November_22-20241122012700"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Heat_of_chillies-November_22-20241122012700"></span>Heat of chillies<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Heat_of_chillies-November_22-20241122012700"></span></h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-146.90.140.99-20241122012700-Heat_of_chillies"></span>How hot, in terms of Scovilles, does a chilli need to be before a parrot can feel the burn? I just saw a video on Facebook of a macaw eating a ghost pepper without the slightest care. From what I read, parrots are extremely resistant to the capsicum from chillies. Or is it because we have thousands of taste buds and parrots have tens, which is also true. <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/146.90.140.99" title="Special:Contributions/146.90.140.99">146.90.140.99</a> (<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:146.90.140.99&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User talk:146.90.140.99 (page does not exist)">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Science#c-146.90.140.99-20241122012700-Heat_of_chillies" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:27, 22 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-146.90.140.99-20241122012700-Heat_of_chillies"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-146.90.140.99-20241122012700-Heat_of_chillies"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Card_Zero-20241122032200-146.90.140.99-20241122012700"></span><link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1248585704"><q class="inline-quote-talk">“The seeds of Capsicum plants are dispersed predominantly by birds. In birds, the TRPV1 channel does not respond to <a href="/wiki/Capsaicin" title="Capsaicin">capsaicin</a> or related chemicals but mammalian TRPV1 is very sensitive to it. This is advantageous to the plant, as chili pepper seeds consumed by birds pass through the digestive tract and can germinate later, whereas mammals have molar teeth which destroy such seeds and prevent them from germinating.”</q> <a href="/wiki/User:Card_Zero" title="User:Card Zero"><span style="background-color:#fffff0; border:1px #995; border-style:dotted solid solid dotted;"> Card Zero </span></a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Card_Zero" title="User talk:Card Zero">(talk)</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Science#c-Card_Zero-20241122032200-146.90.140.99-20241122012700" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">03:22, 22 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Card_Zero-20241122032200-146.90.140.99-20241122012700"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Card_Zero-20241122032200-146.90.140.99-20241122012700"></span></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Sean.hoyland-20241122033200-146.90.140.99-20241122012700"></span>Yes, as Card Zero says, birds have different <a href="/wiki/TRPV" title="TRPV">TRPV</a> receptors (for <a href="/wiki/Vanilloids" class="mw-redirect" title="Vanilloids">vanilloids</a> like capsaicin) than mammals. I guess chillis want their seeds distributed far and wide by birds. On the other hand, I've never seen anything eat the chillis that accidentally grow in my garden. Interestingly, my dog appears to have different TRPV receptors than me as they don't seem to notice very spicy chilli seeds on food and they won't be damaging the seeds. <a href="/wiki/User:Sean.hoyland" title="User:Sean.hoyland">Sean.hoyland</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Sean.hoyland" title="User talk:Sean.hoyland">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Science#c-Sean.hoyland-20241122033200-146.90.140.99-20241122012700" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">03:32, 22 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Sean.hoyland-20241122033200-146.90.140.99-20241122012700"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Sean.hoyland-20241122033200-146.90.140.99-20241122012700"></span></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Shantavira-20241122092300-146.90.140.99-20241122012700"></span>Indeed, one of the most effective ways to keep squirrels off my bird feeder is to sprinkle the birdseed with chilli powder. <a href="/wiki/User:Shantavira" title="User:Shantavira">Shantavira</a>|<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Shantavira" title="User talk:Shantavira"><sup>feed me</sup></a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Science#c-Shantavira-20241122092300-146.90.140.99-20241122012700" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">09:23, 22 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Shantavira-20241122092300-146.90.140.99-20241122012700"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Shantavira-20241122092300-146.90.140.99-20241122012700"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-HiLo48-20241122100800-Shantavira-20241122092300"></span>My entire home crop of capsicums (bell peppers to Americans), and some chillis disappeared in one night last summer right after a colony of fruit bats arrived in my local park. Fruit bats, of course, are mammals. <a href="/wiki/User:HiLo48" title="User:HiLo48">HiLo48</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:HiLo48" title="User talk:HiLo48">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Science#c-HiLo48-20241122100800-Shantavira-20241122092300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">10:08, 22 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-HiLo48-20241122100800-Shantavira-20241122092300"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-HiLo48-20241122100800-Shantavira-20241122092300"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Sean.hoyland-20241122155000-HiLo48-20241122100800"></span>That's interesting because there are many bats here. They often sleep individually or in small groups inside young banana leaves that haven't unfurled yet. They sometimes crash into me at night if I'm moving. I guess in bat-world tree-like things don't move. They seem to have a chilli-free diet but might eat some of the other fruit. Plenty of insects to eat. Bat teeth <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-023-40158-4">seem to be quite diverse</a> molar-wise. Chilli is the only thing that survives the wildlife. It's a multi-belligerent fruit-based forever war over resources with the birds, squirrels, rats, countless insects, fungi, bacteria and viruses. <a href="/wiki/User:Sean.hoyland" title="User:Sean.hoyland">Sean.hoyland</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Sean.hoyland" title="User talk:Sean.hoyland">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Science#c-Sean.hoyland-20241122155000-HiLo48-20241122100800" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:50, 22 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Sean.hoyland-20241122155000-HiLo48-20241122100800"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Sean.hoyland-20241122155000-HiLo48-20241122100800"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-NadVolum-20241125212300-Sean.hoyland-20241122155000"></span>Insect eating bats are very different from the fruit bats. There's a theory that peppers have the same sort of relation to fruit bats as chillis do to birds so I can easily imagine a fruit bat being partial to a couple of chillis even if it does find them rather hot. <a href="/wiki/User:NadVolum" title="User:NadVolum">NadVolum</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:NadVolum" title="User talk:NadVolum">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Science#c-NadVolum-20241125212300-Sean.hoyland-20241122155000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:23, 25 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-NadVolum-20241125212300-Sean.hoyland-20241122155000"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-NadVolum-20241125212300-Sean.hoyland-20241122155000"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading1"><h1 id="November_23" data-mw-thread-id="h-November_23-20241123072400"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-November_23-20241123072400"></span>November 23<span data-mw-comment-end="h-November_23-20241123072400"></span></h1></div> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Before_Puberty,_sex_organs_are_not_functional?" data-mw-thread-id="h-Before_Puberty,_sex_organs_are_not_functional?-November_23-20241123072400"><span id="Before_Puberty.2C_sex_organs_are_not_functional.3F"></span><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Before_Puberty,_sex_organs_are_not_functional?-November_23-20241123072400"></span>Before <a href="/wiki/Puberty" title="Puberty">Puberty</a>, sex organs are not functional?<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Before_Puberty,_sex_organs_are_not_functional?-November_23-20241123072400"></span></h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-HarryOrange-20241123072400-Before_Puberty,_sex_organs_are_not_functional?"></span>How do sex organs function in both genders before puberty in humans? Not after <a href="/wiki/Puberty" title="Puberty">Puberty</a>. <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:HarryOrange&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:HarryOrange (page does not exist)">HarryOrange</a> (<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:HarryOrange&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User talk:HarryOrange (page does not exist)">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Science#c-HarryOrange-20241123072400-Before_Puberty,_sex_organs_are_not_functional?" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">07:24, 23 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-HarryOrange-20241123072400-Before_Puberty,_sex_organs_are_not_functional?"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-HarryOrange-20241123072400-Before_Puberty,_sex_organs_are_not_functional?"></span> </p> <dl><dd><a href="/wiki/Sexual_maturity" title="Sexual maturity"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Lambiam-20241123115100-HarryOrange-20241123072400"></span>Sexual maturity</a> is only reached during <a href="/wiki/Puberty" title="Puberty">puberty</a>. Before it is reached, the sex organs are not (or not yet fully) functional. See also <a href="/wiki/Sex_organ#Development" title="Sex organ">Sex organ § Development</a> and <a href="/wiki/Precocious_puberty" title="Precocious puberty">Precocious puberty</a>. --<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Lambiam#top" title="User talk:Lambiam">Lambiam</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Science#c-Lambiam-20241123115100-HarryOrange-20241123072400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">11:51, 23 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Lambiam-20241123115100-HarryOrange-20241123072400"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Lambiam-20241123115100-HarryOrange-20241123072400"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Abductive-20241124093900-Lambiam-20241123115100"></span>They're functional. It's just that their functions are generally under the headings of "basic maintenance" and "not atrophying". <span style="font-family: Cambria;"> <a href="/wiki/User:Abductive" title="User:Abductive"><span style="color: teal;"><b>Abductive</b></span></a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Abductive" title="User talk:Abductive">reasoning</a>)</span> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Science#c-Abductive-20241124093900-Lambiam-20241123115100" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">09:39, 24 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Abductive-20241124093900-Lambiam-20241123115100"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Abductive-20241124093900-Lambiam-20241123115100"></span></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-94.1.211.243-20241124094600-Lambiam-20241123115100"></span>To my understanding (which may be deficient), <a href="/wiki/Testicle" title="Testicle">testicles</a> prior to puberty are secreting <i>some</i> levels of <a href="/wiki/Androgen" title="Androgen">androgens</a> (including testosterone) <i>and</i> <a href="/wiki/Estrogen" title="Estrogen">estrogens</a>, which contribute to the male body's normal development, even though these levels are well below what they become during and after puberty. I imagine (perhaps wrongly) that similar considerations apply to the <a href="/wiki/Ovary" title="Ovary">ovaries</a>.</dd> <dd>Our immediately relevant articles seem not very informative about pre-pubertal operations of the sex organs. Perhaps someone more knowlegable could take a look at them. <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/94.1.211.243" title="Special:Contributions/94.1.211.243">94.1.211.243</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:94.1.211.243" title="User talk:94.1.211.243">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Science#c-94.1.211.243-20241124094600-Lambiam-20241123115100" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">09:46, 24 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-94.1.211.243-20241124094600-Lambiam-20241123115100"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-94.1.211.243-20241124094600-Lambiam-20241123115100"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Abductive-20241124100800-94.1.211.243-20241124094600"></span>I did take a look, I always do before answering a question. Here is a representative article; <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://academic.oup.com/humrep/article/29/1/97/629238">The immature human ovary shows loss of abnormal follicles and increasing follicle developmental competence through childhood and adolescence</a>. The word "competence" means that <i>in vitro</i> the ovary tissue does a better job of taking on adult functionality the older the girl, but <i>in vivo</i> such activity is suppressed. <span style="font-family: Cambria;"> <a href="/wiki/User:Abductive" title="User:Abductive"><span style="color: teal;"><b>Abductive</b></span></a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Abductive" title="User talk:Abductive">reasoning</a>)</span> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Science#c-Abductive-20241124100800-94.1.211.243-20241124094600" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">10:08, 24 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Abductive-20241124100800-94.1.211.243-20241124094600"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Abductive-20241124100800-94.1.211.243-20241124094600"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-94.1.211.243-20241124133600-Abductive-20241124100800"></span>Nevertheless, if I've understood the peripheral hints I've encountered, those pre-pubertal levels of androgen and estrogen (and steroid, etc.) secretions <i>are</i> necessary <i>at the time</i> (the pre-pubertal period) for ongoing normal development, which is kinda what the OP asked about. Of course, all this is well above my pay grade. {The poster formerly known as 87.81 230.195} <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/94.1.211.243" title="Special:Contributions/94.1.211.243">94.1.211.243</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:94.1.211.243" title="User talk:94.1.211.243">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Science#c-94.1.211.243-20241124133600-Abductive-20241124100800" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">13:36, 24 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-94.1.211.243-20241124133600-Abductive-20241124100800"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-94.1.211.243-20241124133600-Abductive-20241124100800"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Nil_Einne-20241124204600-94.1.211.243-20241124133600"></span>This discussion seems to have focused on the testicles and ovaries but the <a href="/wiki/Penis" title="Penis">penis</a> is also a sex organ and is capable of an <a href="/wiki/Erection" title="Erection">erection</a> before puberty. This is mentioned in our erection article in a sort of weird way given the flow on sentence. <a href="/wiki/Ejaculation" title="Ejaculation">Ejaculation</a> however only happens after puberty. I assume there is similarly some level of function in female sex organs. As mentioned in our <a href="/wiki/Masturbation" title="Masturbation">masturbation</a> article it's normal in children even in infancy and may even happen in the womb and is only a concern when there are indications it may relate to sexual abuse. <a href="/wiki/User:Nil_Einne" title="User:Nil Einne">Nil Einne</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Nil_Einne" title="User talk:Nil Einne">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Science#c-Nil_Einne-20241124204600-94.1.211.243-20241124133600" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:46, 24 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Nil_Einne-20241124204600-94.1.211.243-20241124133600"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Nil_Einne-20241124204600-94.1.211.243-20241124133600"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <p><br/> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading1"><h1 id="November_25" data-mw-thread-id="h-November_25-20241125014800"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-November_25-20241125014800"></span>November 25<span data-mw-comment-end="h-November_25-20241125014800"></span></h1></div> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Is_there_a_cryonic_company_that_will_freeze_me_while_I'm_still_alive_and_healthy,_and_reanimate_me_15_years_later?_If_I_arrest_the_aging_process_for_15_years_this_way,_could_I_then_pass_for_a_Gen_Z?" data-mw-thread-id="h-Is_there_a_cryonic_company_that_will_freeze_me_while_I'm_still_alive_and_healthy-November_25-20241125014800"><span id="Is_there_a_cryonic_company_that_will_freeze_me_while_I.27m_still_alive_and_healthy.2C_and_reanimate_me_15_years_later.3F_If_I_arrest_the_aging_process_for_15_years_this_way.2C_could_I_then_pass_for_a_Gen_Z.3F"></span><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Is_there_a_cryonic_company_that_will_freeze_me_while_I'm_still_alive_and_healthy-November_25-20241125014800"></span>Is there a cryonic company that will freeze me while I'm still alive and healthy, and reanimate me 15 years later? If I arrest the aging process for 15 years this way, could I then pass for a Gen Z?<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Is_there_a_cryonic_company_that_will_freeze_me_while_I'm_still_alive_and_healthy-November_25-20241125014800"></span></h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-2600:100A:B005:AFD5:B08A:71E6:8521:5D8E-20241125014800-Is_there_a_cryonic_company_that_will_freeze_me_while_I'm_still_alive_and_healthy"></span>Could I have myself cryofrozen (without dying of another reason first) in 2025 with instructions to reanimate me in 2040 so that I could more convincingly pass for and live like someone born in the Gen Z generation? </p><p>What companies cryofreeze people who ask for it while still alive and healthy? </p><p>Or does such a cryonic plan and company exist anywhere in the world? </p><p>I wanted to be born in 2000, not the year I was actually born in. So if I get cryofrozen for enough years, I'll look as young as a Gen Z when I'm reanimated. </p><p>Lastly, Reddit's r/Cryonics subreddit's automoderator keeps glitching out because it keeps autoremoving any content of mine from there. I tried posting this question and above summary to other subreddits but their automod keeps autoremoving it too. Their persistent glitches kept bugging me enough to dust off the Wikipedian reference desk and post here again for the first time in many years. I used to be a regular on the refdesk, then moved to Reddit, and now I'm back. --<a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/2600:100A:B005:AFD5:B08A:71E6:8521:5D8E" title="Special:Contributions/2600:100A:B005:AFD5:B08A:71E6:8521:5D8E">2600:100A:B005:AFD5:B08A:71E6:8521:5D8E</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:2600:100A:B005:AFD5:B08A:71E6:8521:5D8E" title="User talk:2600:100A:B005:AFD5:B08A:71E6:8521:5D8E">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Science#c-2600:100A:B005:AFD5:B08A:71E6:8521:5D8E-20241125014800-Is_there_a_cryonic_company_that_will_freeze_me_while_I'm_still_alive_and_healthy" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:48, 25 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-2600:100A:B005:AFD5:B08A:71E6:8521:5D8E-20241125014800-Is_there_a_cryonic_company_that_will_freeze_me_while_I'm_still_alive_and_healthy"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-2600:100A:B005:AFD5:B08A:71E6:8521:5D8E-20241125014800-Is_there_a_cryonic_company_that_will_freeze_me_while_I'm_still_alive_and_healthy"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Graeme_Bartlett-20241125015900-2600:100A:B005:AFD5:B08A:71E6:8521:5D8E-20241125014800"></span>Short answer: No. As currently freezing a human adult, results in their death, as no resuscitation is possible. It would be some kind of murder to perform this, so only a crime syndicate would be willing. And then could you trust them for 15 years? <a href="/wiki/User:Graeme_Bartlett" title="User:Graeme Bartlett">Graeme Bartlett</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Graeme_Bartlett" title="User talk:Graeme Bartlett">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Science#c-Graeme_Bartlett-20241125015900-2600:100A:B005:AFD5:B08A:71E6:8521:5D8E-20241125014800" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:59, 25 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Graeme_Bartlett-20241125015900-2600:100A:B005:AFD5:B08A:71E6:8521:5D8E-20241125014800"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Graeme_Bartlett-20241125015900-2600:100A:B005:AFD5:B08A:71E6:8521:5D8E-20241125014800"></span> <dl><dd><span style="font-size:85%;"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Clarityfiend-20241125083400-Graeme_Bartlett-20241125015900"></span>In 15 years, you'd be just as deceased, pushing up daisies, no more, pining for the fjords. So what's trust got to do with it? <a href="/wiki/User:Clarityfiend" title="User:Clarityfiend">Clarityfiend</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Clarityfiend" title="User talk:Clarityfiend">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Science#c-Clarityfiend-20241125083400-Graeme_Bartlett-20241125015900" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">08:34, 25 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Clarityfiend-20241125083400-Graeme_Bartlett-20241125015900"></span></span><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Clarityfiend-20241125083400-Graeme_Bartlett-20241125015900"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span></dd></dl></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd><span style="font-size:85%;"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-NadVolum-20241125211500-Graeme_Bartlett-20241125015900"></span>At this point I feel bound to recommend that you watch <i><a href="/wiki/Sleeper_(1973_film)" title="Sleeper (1973 film)">Sleeper</a></i>.<a href="/wiki/User:Shantavira" title="User:Shantavira">Shantavira</a></span></dd></dl></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd>Terraforming a planet around some distant star and setting up a population there sounds far easier and actually doable to me. Perhaps in the far future it'll be possible to create a new body and copy the brain fom one of those frozen blocks for it, or maybe set up an android with an artificial copied brain - but why would any people who could do that bother with anyone from this time, would it be ethical for us to try and make a Neanderthal clone? <a href="/wiki/User:NadVolum" title="User:NadVolum">NadVolum</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:NadVolum" title="User talk:NadVolum">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Science#c-NadVolum-20241125211500-Graeme_Bartlett-20241125015900" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:15, 25 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-NadVolum-20241125211500-Graeme_Bartlett-20241125015900"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-NadVolum-20241125211500-Graeme_Bartlett-20241125015900"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Alansplodge-20241126115300-NadVolum-20241125211500"></span>By way of a reference, try <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://www.livescience.com/health/death/we-dont-yet-have-the-know-how-to-properly-maintain-a-corpse-brain-why-cryonics-is-a-non-starter-in-our-quest-for-immortality">'<i>We don't yet have the know-how to properly maintain a corpse brain': Why cryonics is a non-starter in our quest for immortality</i></a>. <a href="/wiki/User:Alansplodge" title="User:Alansplodge">Alansplodge</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Alansplodge" title="User talk:Alansplodge">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Science#c-Alansplodge-20241126115300-NadVolum-20241125211500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">11:53, 26 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Alansplodge-20241126115300-NadVolum-20241125211500"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Alansplodge-20241126115300-NadVolum-20241125211500"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Can_any_insurance_company_make_a_cryonics_bankruptcy_insurance_policy_for_companies_that_preserve_bodies_in_cryogenic_preservation_vats_so_that_even_when_the_company_goes_bankrupt,_their_insurance_policies_will_keep_these_vats_running_and_bodies_preserved?" data-mw-thread-id="h-Can_any_insurance_company_make_a_cryonics_bankruptcy_insurance_policy_for_compan-November_25-20241125014800"><span id="Can_any_insurance_company_make_a_cryonics_bankruptcy_insurance_policy_for_companies_that_preserve_bodies_in_cryogenic_preservation_vats_so_that_even_when_the_company_goes_bankrupt.2C_their_insurance_policies_will_keep_these_vats_running_and_bodies_preserved.3F"></span><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Can_any_insurance_company_make_a_cryonics_bankruptcy_insurance_policy_for_compan-November_25-20241125014800"></span>Can any insurance company make a cryonics bankruptcy insurance policy for companies that preserve bodies in cryogenic preservation vats so that even when the company goes bankrupt, their insurance policies will keep these vats running and bodies preserved?<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Can_any_insurance_company_make_a_cryonics_bankruptcy_insurance_policy_for_compan-November_25-20241125014800"></span></h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-2600:100A:B005:AFD5:B08A:71E6:8521:5D8E-20241125014800-Can_any_insurance_company_make_a_cryonics_bankruptcy_insurance_policy_for_compan"></span>...So that we can continue the hope and possibility of reanimating these bodies back to life when medical science advances and finds cures to reverse whatever they died from? </p><p>This topic was also autoremoved from r/Cryonics so that's why I'm bringing it here too. Thanks in advance. --<a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/2600:100A:B005:AFD5:B08A:71E6:8521:5D8E" title="Special:Contributions/2600:100A:B005:AFD5:B08A:71E6:8521:5D8E">2600:100A:B005:AFD5:B08A:71E6:8521:5D8E</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:2600:100A:B005:AFD5:B08A:71E6:8521:5D8E" title="User talk:2600:100A:B005:AFD5:B08A:71E6:8521:5D8E">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Science#c-2600:100A:B005:AFD5:B08A:71E6:8521:5D8E-20241125014800-Can_any_insurance_company_make_a_cryonics_bankruptcy_insurance_policy_for_compan" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:48, 25 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-2600:100A:B005:AFD5:B08A:71E6:8521:5D8E-20241125014800-Can_any_insurance_company_make_a_cryonics_bankruptcy_insurance_policy_for_compan"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-2600:100A:B005:AFD5:B08A:71E6:8521:5D8E-20241125014800-Can_any_insurance_company_make_a_cryonics_bankruptcy_insurance_policy_for_compan"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Lambiam-20241125025300-2600:100A:B005:AFD5:B08A:71E6:8521:5D8E-20241125014800"></span>An <a href="/wiki/Insurance_policy" title="Insurance policy">insurance policy</a> defines the <u>amount of money</u> to be paid to the holder of the policy when a specified contingency occurs. If the contingency is <a href="/wiki/Bankruptcy" title="Bankruptcy">bankruptcy</a> and the idea is to keep the company running, the amount should be larger than the prospectively unknowable debt to <a href="/wiki/Preferential_creditor" title="Preferential creditor">preferential creditors</a>. It should be obvious that no insurance company can offer a policy with an unlimited payout. Apart from this, even an insurance for a sufficiently large amount cannot guarantee that the company or <a href="/wiki/Trustee_in_bankruptcy" title="Trustee in bankruptcy">trustee</a> will use the money paid out for the intended purpose. --<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Lambiam#top" title="User talk:Lambiam">Lambiam</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Science#c-Lambiam-20241125025300-2600:100A:B005:AFD5:B08A:71E6:8521:5D8E-20241125014800" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:53, 25 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Lambiam-20241125025300-2600:100A:B005:AFD5:B08A:71E6:8521:5D8E-20241125014800"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Lambiam-20241125025300-2600:100A:B005:AFD5:B08A:71E6:8521:5D8E-20241125014800"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-NadVolum-20241125210000-Lambiam-20241125025300"></span>Who would be a creditor? They're all dead and have no rights. <a href="/wiki/User:NadVolum" title="User:NadVolum">NadVolum</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:NadVolum" title="User talk:NadVolum">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Science#c-NadVolum-20241125210000-Lambiam-20241125025300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:00, 25 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-NadVolum-20241125210000-Lambiam-20241125025300"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-NadVolum-20241125210000-Lambiam-20241125025300"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Lambiam-20241126114300-NadVolum-20241125210000"></span>Creditors of Instant Immortality (the bankrupt cryonics company, for short II) could be: (1) the tax office; (2) II's bank; (3) the company from which II hired its cryogenic equipment; (4) II's provider of liquid nitrogen; (5) II's lawyers; (6) scores of estates of frozen clients, legally presumed dead, who won a class action lawsuit against II. --<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Lambiam#top" title="User talk:Lambiam">Lambiam</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Science#c-Lambiam-20241126114300-NadVolum-20241125210000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">11:43, 26 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Lambiam-20241126114300-NadVolum-20241125210000"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Lambiam-20241126114300-NadVolum-20241125210000"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Baseball_Bugs-20241126010000-2600:100A:B005:AFD5:B08A:71E6:8521:5D8E-20241125014800"></span>Wow, is it April 1 already? ←<a href="/wiki/User:Baseball_Bugs" title="User:Baseball Bugs">Baseball Bugs</a> <sup><i><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Baseball_Bugs" title="User talk:Baseball Bugs">What's up, Doc?</a></i></sup> <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Baseball_Bugs" title="Special:Contributions/Baseball Bugs">carrots</a>→ <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Science#c-Baseball_Bugs-20241126010000-2600:100A:B005:AFD5:B08A:71E6:8521:5D8E-20241125014800" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:00, 26 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Baseball_Bugs-20241126010000-2600:100A:B005:AFD5:B08A:71E6:8521:5D8E-20241125014800"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Baseball_Bugs-20241126010000-2600:100A:B005:AFD5:B08A:71E6:8521:5D8E-20241125014800"></span></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Shantavira-20241126093300-2600:100A:B005:AFD5:B08A:71E6:8521:5D8E-20241125014800"></span>Cryonics is such a blatant scam I don't understand how it is legal. <a href="/wiki/User:Shantavira" title="User:Shantavira">Shantavira</a>|<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Shantavira" title="User talk:Shantavira"><sup>feed me</sup></a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Science#c-Shantavira-20241126093300-2600:100A:B005:AFD5:B08A:71E6:8521:5D8E-20241125014800" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">09:33, 26 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Shantavira-20241126093300-2600:100A:B005:AFD5:B08A:71E6:8521:5D8E-20241125014800"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Shantavira-20241126093300-2600:100A:B005:AFD5:B08A:71E6:8521:5D8E-20241125014800"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Clarityfiend-20241126100600-Shantavira-20241126093300"></span>More blatant than (also legal) <a href="/wiki/Homeopathy" title="Homeopathy">homeopathy</a>? <a href="/wiki/User:Clarityfiend" title="User:Clarityfiend">Clarityfiend</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Clarityfiend" title="User talk:Clarityfiend">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Science#c-Clarityfiend-20241126100600-Shantavira-20241126093300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">10:06, 26 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Clarityfiend-20241126100600-Shantavira-20241126093300"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Clarityfiend-20241126100600-Shantavira-20241126093300"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Alansplodge-20241126114500-Can_any_insurance_company_make_a_cryonics_bankruptcy_insurance_policy_for_compan"></span>A marginally better idea might be to create a <a href="/wiki/Testamentary_trust" title="Testamentary trust">testamentary trust</a> fund, if you could find a willing trustee. I'm not sure how far into the future you might want this to extend (do frozen corpses have a "best before" date?) but a legal expert might advise on how to extend the trust beyond the lifetime of the trustee, and what incentives might be required for another person to accept that role. <a href="/wiki/User:Alansplodge" title="User:Alansplodge">Alansplodge</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Alansplodge" title="User talk:Alansplodge">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Science#c-Alansplodge-20241126114500-Can_any_insurance_company_make_a_cryonics_bankruptcy_insurance_policy_for_compan" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">11:45, 26 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Alansplodge-20241126114500-Can_any_insurance_company_make_a_cryonics_bankruptcy_insurance_policy_for_compan"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Alansplodge-20241126114500-Can_any_insurance_company_make_a_cryonics_bankruptcy_insurance_policy_for_compan"></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Where_to_verify_a_chemical_compund_name_synonyms?" data-mw-thread-id="h-Where_to_verify_a_chemical_compund_name_synonyms?-November_25-20241125080900"><span id="Where_to_verify_a_chemical_compund_name_synonyms.3F"></span><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Where_to_verify_a_chemical_compund_name_synonyms?-November_25-20241125080900"></span>Where to verify a chemical compund name synonyms?<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Where_to_verify_a_chemical_compund_name_synonyms?-November_25-20241125080900"></span></h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-CiaPan-20241125080900-Where_to_verify_a_chemical_compund_name_synonyms?"></span>The <a href="/wiki/ARM390" title="ARM390">ARM390</a> compound has multiple IDs, (some of?) which can be found at PubChem here: </p> <dl><dd><a rel="nofollow" class="external free" href="https://pubchem.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/compound/9841259#section=Synonyms">https://pubchem.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/compound/9841259#section=Synonyms</a></dd></dl> <p>There are two among them, which differ with one <i>zero</i> only: <a href="/wiki/AR-M1000390" class="mw-redirect" title="AR-M1000390">AR-M1000390</a> and <a href="/wiki/AR-M100390" class="mw-redirect" title="AR-M100390">AR-M100390</a>. The difference seems too small to be just a coincidence, it looks like one must be a typo modification of the other. </p><p>Is there any way for a non-chemistry/medicine-professional to trace the origin of those specific symbols and learn whether they are actually the same, or genuinely different? --<a href="/wiki/User:CiaPan" title="User:CiaPan">CiaPan</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:CiaPan" title="User talk:CiaPan">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Science#c-CiaPan-20241125080900-Where_to_verify_a_chemical_compund_name_synonyms?" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">08:09, 25 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-CiaPan-20241125080900-Where_to_verify_a_chemical_compund_name_synonyms?"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-CiaPan-20241125080900-Where_to_verify_a_chemical_compund_name_synonyms?"></span> </p><p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Michael_D._Turnbull-20241125121400-Where_to_verify_a_chemical_compund_name_synonyms?"></span>PS. The motivation for publishing this question here is it's not only me in doubt – another user called for discussion at <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Redirects_for_discussion/Log/2024_November_24#AR-M100390" title="Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2024 November 24">Redirect discussion: AR-M100390</a>. The sources refer to both names, so from the Wikpedia point of view both are valid, but... Out of curiosity, I just would like to know: are they independent, truly different? <a href="/wiki/User:CiaPan" title="User:CiaPan">CiaPan</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:CiaPan" title="User talk:CiaPan">talk</a>) </p> <dl><dd>Usually, I would trust <a href="/wiki/ChemSpider" title="ChemSpider">ChemSpider</a> to validate such synonyms and that's where I'd send a non-expert. In this particular case, Chemspider seems to prefer AR-M1000390 but one possible source of misinformation/typo is <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC2672171/">this paper</a>, which consistently uses AR-M100390 in the text <i>but</i> AR-M1000390 in the citation #23, which is correct at <a href="//doi.org/10.1016/S0024-3205(03)00489-2" class="extiw" title="doi:10.1016/S0024-3205(03)00489-2">doi:10.1016/S0024-3205(03)00489-2</a>. <a href="/wiki/User:Michael_D._Turnbull" title="User:Michael D. Turnbull">Mike Turnbull</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Michael_D._Turnbull" title="User talk:Michael D. Turnbull">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Science#c-Michael_D._Turnbull-20241125121400-Where_to_verify_a_chemical_compund_name_synonyms?" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">12:14, 25 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Michael_D._Turnbull-20241125121400-Where_to_verify_a_chemical_compund_name_synonyms?"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Michael_D._Turnbull-20241125121400-Where_to_verify_a_chemical_compund_name_synonyms?"></span></dd></dl> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Lambiam-20241125200200-Michael_D._Turnbull-20241125121400"></span>The earliest use of the name AR-M1000390 seems to be in a PhD thesis from 2003.<sup><a rel="nofollow" class="external autonumber" href="https://theses.fr/2003PA05P602">[5]</a></sup> The same name was used in a 2003 journal article in <i><a href="/wiki/Life_Sciences_(journal)" title="Life Sciences (journal)">Life Sciences</a></i> describing the results of this PhD thesis.<sup><a rel="nofollow" class="external autonumber" href="https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0024320503004892?via%3Dihub">[6]</a></sup> The substance was synthesized by researchers from AstraZeneca R&D; their paper describing the design, synthesis, and pharmacological evaluation of the drug, published in 2000, does not use this name, but only the systemic name <i>N</i>,<i>N</i>-diethyl-4-(phenylpiperidin-4-ylidenemethyl)benzamide.<sup><a rel="nofollow" class="external autonumber" href="https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/11052794/">[7]</a></sup> Plausibly, the "AR" bit is short for "AstraZeneca R&D" and the whole was originally a code for internal use in the AstraZeneca lab. Subsequently: <ul><li><b>AR-M1000390</b> was deposited on 2016-02-05; the source was the <a href="/wiki/Guide_to_Pharmacology" title="Guide to Pharmacology">IUPHAR/BPS Guide to PHARMACOLOGY</a>,<sup><a rel="nofollow" class="external autonumber" href="https://pubchem.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/substance/310264783/version/1">[8]</a></sup> which references the 2003 <i>Life Sciences</i> article.<sup><a rel="nofollow" class="external autonumber" href="https://www.guidetopharmacology.org/GRAC/LigandDisplayForward?ligandId=9005">[9]</a></sup></li> <li>The synonym <b>ar-m100390</b> was deposited on 2017-09-13 by Springer Nature.<sup><a rel="nofollow" class="external autonumber" href="https://pubchem.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/substance/341355739">[10]</a></sup></li> <li>Yet another synonym: <b>AR-M 1000390</b>, deposited on 2024-11-14 by a chemical vendor.<sup><a rel="nofollow" class="external autonumber" href="https://pubchem.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/substance/504088734">[11]</a></sup></li></ul></dd> <dd>--<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Lambiam#top" title="User talk:Lambiam">Lambiam</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Science#c-Lambiam-20241125200200-Michael_D._Turnbull-20241125121400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:02, 25 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Lambiam-20241125200200-Michael_D._Turnbull-20241125121400"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Lambiam-20241125200200-Michael_D._Turnbull-20241125121400"></span></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-CiaPan-20241126072400-Lambiam-20241125200200"></span>Thank you both, <a href="/wiki/User:Michael_D._Turnbull" title="User:Michael D. Turnbull">Mike Turnbull</a> and <a href="/wiki/User:Lambiam" title="User:Lambiam">Lambiam</a>, for detailed info. <abbr title="Grinning face" style="border-bottom: none;"><span typeof="mw:File"><span><img src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/bc/Face-grin.svg/18px-Face-grin.svg.png" decoding="async" width="18" height="18" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/bc/Face-grin.svg/27px-Face-grin.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/bc/Face-grin.svg/36px-Face-grin.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="48" data-file-height="48"/></span></span></abbr> <a href="/wiki/User:CiaPan" title="User:CiaPan">CiaPan</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:CiaPan" title="User talk:CiaPan">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Science#c-CiaPan-20241126072400-Lambiam-20241125200200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">07:24, 26 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-CiaPan-20241126072400-Lambiam-20241125200200"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-CiaPan-20241126072400-Lambiam-20241125200200"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading1"><h1 id="November_27" data-mw-thread-id="h-November_27-20241127090500"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-November_27-20241127090500"></span>November 27<span data-mw-comment-end="h-November_27-20241127090500"></span></h1></div> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Right_whales_and_Left_whales" data-mw-thread-id="h-Right_whales_and_Left_whales-November_27-20241127090500"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Right_whales_and_Left_whales-November_27-20241127090500"></span>Right whales and Left whales<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Right_whales_and_Left_whales-November_27-20241127090500"></span></h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Someone_who's_wrong_on_the_internet-20241127090500-Right_whales_and_Left_whales"></span>Why are there <a href="/wiki/Right_whale" title="Right whale">right whales</a>, but not <a href="/w/index.php?title=Left_whale&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Left whale (page does not exist)">left whales</a>? <a href="/wiki/User:Someone_who%27s_wrong_on_the_internet" title="User:Someone who's wrong on the internet">Someone who's wrong on the internet</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Someone_who%27s_wrong_on_the_internet" title="User talk:Someone who's wrong on the internet">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Science#c-Someone_who's_wrong_on_the_internet-20241127090500-Right_whales_and_Left_whales" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">09:05, 27 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Someone_who's_wrong_on_the_internet-20241127090500-Right_whales_and_Left_whales"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Someone_who's_wrong_on_the_internet-20241127090500-Right_whales_and_Left_whales"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Sean.hoyland-20241127093200-Someone_who's_wrong_on_the_internet-20241127090500"></span>Perhaps there's a naming dispute in the whale courts over brand names, a left vs wrong case. <a href="/wiki/User:Sean.hoyland" title="User:Sean.hoyland">Sean.hoyland</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Sean.hoyland" title="User talk:Sean.hoyland">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Science#c-Sean.hoyland-20241127093200-Someone_who's_wrong_on_the_internet-20241127090500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">09:32, 27 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Sean.hoyland-20241127093200-Someone_who's_wrong_on_the_internet-20241127090500"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Sean.hoyland-20241127093200-Someone_who's_wrong_on_the_internet-20241127090500"></span></dd></dl> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Baseball_Bugs-20241127100000-Someone_who's_wrong_on_the_internet-20241127090500"></span>You're thinking of the <a href="/wiki/Narwhal" title="Narwhal">Narwhal</a>. ←<a href="/wiki/User:Baseball_Bugs" title="User:Baseball Bugs">Baseball Bugs</a> <sup><i><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Baseball_Bugs" title="User talk:Baseball Bugs">What's up, Doc?</a></i></sup> <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Baseball_Bugs" title="Special:Contributions/Baseball Bugs">carrots</a>→ <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Science#c-Baseball_Bugs-20241127100000-Someone_who's_wrong_on_the_internet-20241127090500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">10:00, 27 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Baseball_Bugs-20241127100000-Someone_who's_wrong_on_the_internet-20241127090500"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Baseball_Bugs-20241127100000-Someone_who's_wrong_on_the_internet-20241127090500"></span></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-PiusImpavidus-20241127101000-Someone_who's_wrong_on_the_internet-20241127090500"></span>Not right versus left, but right versus wrong. This was the right species to catch. <a href="/wiki/User:PiusImpavidus" title="User:PiusImpavidus">PiusImpavidus</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:PiusImpavidus" title="User talk:PiusImpavidus">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Science#c-PiusImpavidus-20241127101000-Someone_who's_wrong_on_the_internet-20241127090500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">10:10, 27 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-PiusImpavidus-20241127101000-Someone_who's_wrong_on_the_internet-20241127090500"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-PiusImpavidus-20241127101000-Someone_who's_wrong_on_the_internet-20241127090500"></span></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Shantavira-20241127112700-Someone_who's_wrong_on_the_internet-20241127090500"></span>Th answer is in the article you linked: <a href="/wiki/Right_whale#Naming" title="Right whale">Right_whale#Naming</a>. <a href="/wiki/User:Shantavira" title="User:Shantavira">Shantavira</a>|<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Shantavira" title="User talk:Shantavira"><sup>feed me</sup></a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Science#c-Shantavira-20241127112700-Someone_who's_wrong_on_the_internet-20241127090500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">11:27, 27 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Shantavira-20241127112700-Someone_who's_wrong_on_the_internet-20241127090500"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Shantavira-20241127112700-Someone_who's_wrong_on_the_internet-20241127090500"></span></dd></dl> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Baseball_Bugs-20241127151100-Someone_who's_wrong_on_the_internet-20241127090500"></span>If a member of a group of whales manages to beach itself, and the others swim on, then the one on the beach would be a left whale. ←<a href="/wiki/User:Baseball_Bugs" title="User:Baseball Bugs">Baseball Bugs</a> <sup><i><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Baseball_Bugs" title="User talk:Baseball Bugs">What's up, Doc?</a></i></sup> <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Baseball_Bugs" title="Special:Contributions/Baseball Bugs">carrots</a>→ <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Science#c-Baseball_Bugs-20241127151100-Someone_who's_wrong_on_the_internet-20241127090500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:11, 27 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Baseball_Bugs-20241127151100-Someone_who's_wrong_on_the_internet-20241127090500"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Baseball_Bugs-20241127151100-Someone_who's_wrong_on_the_internet-20241127090500"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Someone_who's_wrong_on_the_internet-20241127231900-Baseball_Bugs-20241127151100"></span>What is a <a href="/w/index.php?title=Wrong_whale&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Wrong whale (page does not exist)">wrong whale</a> exactly? <a href="/wiki/User:Someone_who%27s_wrong_on_the_internet" title="User:Someone who's wrong on the internet">Someone who's wrong on the internet</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Someone_who%27s_wrong_on_the_internet" title="User talk:Someone who's wrong on the internet">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Science#c-Someone_who's_wrong_on_the_internet-20241127231900-Baseball_Bugs-20241127151100" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:19, 27 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Someone_who's_wrong_on_the_internet-20241127231900-Baseball_Bugs-20241127151100"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Someone_who's_wrong_on_the_internet-20241127231900-Baseball_Bugs-20241127151100"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Baseball_Bugs-20241127234200-Someone_who's_wrong_on_the_internet-20241127231900"></span>The ones that don't fit the definition given in the article. ←<a href="/wiki/User:Baseball_Bugs" title="User:Baseball Bugs">Baseball Bugs</a> <sup><i><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Baseball_Bugs" title="User talk:Baseball Bugs">What's up, Doc?</a></i></sup> <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Baseball_Bugs" title="Special:Contributions/Baseball Bugs">carrots</a>→ <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Science#c-Baseball_Bugs-20241127234200-Someone_who's_wrong_on_the_internet-20241127231900" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:42, 27 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Baseball_Bugs-20241127234200-Someone_who's_wrong_on_the_internet-20241127231900"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Baseball_Bugs-20241127234200-Someone_who's_wrong_on_the_internet-20241127231900"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Baseball_Bugs-20241127234500-Baseball_Bugs-20241127234200"></span>There's also this:<a rel="nofollow" class="external autonumber" href="https://x.com/davidcoverdale/status/1153914897987538946">[12]</a> ←<a href="/wiki/User:Baseball_Bugs" title="User:Baseball Bugs">Baseball Bugs</a> <sup><i><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Baseball_Bugs" title="User talk:Baseball Bugs">What's up, Doc?</a></i></sup> <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Baseball_Bugs" title="Special:Contributions/Baseball Bugs">carrots</a>→ <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Science#c-Baseball_Bugs-20241127234500-Baseball_Bugs-20241127234200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:45, 27 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Baseball_Bugs-20241127234500-Baseball_Bugs-20241127234200"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Baseball_Bugs-20241127234500-Baseball_Bugs-20241127234200"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd> <dd><small><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Wardog-20241128120100-Someone_who's_wrong_on_the_internet-20241127090500"></span>Maybe <a href="https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/The_Man_Who_Was_Thursday#Ch._II_:_The_Secret_of_Gabriel_Syme" class="extiw" title="wikiquote:The Man Who Was Thursday">Gregory and Syme</a> got to them. <a href="/wiki/User:Wardog" title="User:Wardog">Iapetus</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Wardog" title="User talk:Wardog">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Science#c-Wardog-20241128120100-Someone_who's_wrong_on_the_internet-20241127090500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">12:01, 28 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Wardog-20241128120100-Someone_who's_wrong_on_the_internet-20241127090500"></span></small><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Wardog-20241128120100-Someone_who's_wrong_on_the_internet-20241127090500"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Lawson_Criterion:_calculating_energy_density_W" data-mw-thread-id="h-Lawson_Criterion:_calculating_energy_density_W-November_27-20241127112800"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Lawson_Criterion:_calculating_energy_density_W-November_27-20241127112800"></span>Lawson Criterion: calculating energy density W<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Lawson_Criterion:_calculating_energy_density_W-November_27-20241127112800"></span></h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><a href="/wiki/Lawson_Criterion" class="mw-redirect" title="Lawson Criterion"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Shouldputsomethinginterestinghere-20241127112800-Lawson_Criterion:_calculating_energy_density_W"></span>Lawson Criterion</a> </p><p> The article states: <style data-mw-deduplicate="TemplateStyles:r1244412712">.mw-parser-output .templatequote{overflow:hidden;margin:1em 0;padding:0 32px}.mw-parser-output .templatequotecite{line-height:1.5em;text-align:left;margin-top:0}@media(min-width:500px){.mw-parser-output .templatequotecite{padding-left:1.6em}}</style></p><blockquote class="templatequote"><p>Ion density then equals electron density and the energy density of both electrons and ions together is given by </p><p> <span class="mwe-math-element"><span class="mwe-math-mathml-inline mwe-math-mathml-a11y" style="display: none;"><math xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1998/Math/MathML" alttext="{\displaystyle W=3nT}"> <semantics> <mrow class="MJX-TeXAtom-ORD"> <mstyle displaystyle="true" scriptlevel="0"> <mi>W</mi> <mo>=</mo> <mn>3</mn> <mi>n</mi> <mi>T</mi> </mstyle> </mrow> <annotation encoding="application/x-tex">{\displaystyle W=3nT}</annotation> </semantics> </math></span><img src="https://wikimedia.org/api/rest_v1/media/math/render/svg/eeb59049c0815eb6894ba42a69664f29c06a5436" class="mwe-math-fallback-image-inline mw-invert skin-invert" aria-hidden="true" style="vertical-align: -0.338ex; width:9.727ex; height:2.176ex;" alt="{\displaystyle W=3nT}"/></span> </p><p> where <span class="mwe-math-element"><span class="mwe-math-mathml-inline mwe-math-mathml-a11y" style="display: none;"><math xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1998/Math/MathML" alttext="{\displaystyle T}"> <semantics> <mrow class="MJX-TeXAtom-ORD"> <mstyle displaystyle="true" scriptlevel="0"> <mi>T</mi> </mstyle> </mrow> <annotation encoding="application/x-tex">{\displaystyle T}</annotation> </semantics> </math></span><img src="https://wikimedia.org/api/rest_v1/media/math/render/svg/ec7200acd984a1d3a3d7dc455e262fbe54f7f6e0" class="mwe-math-fallback-image-inline mw-invert skin-invert" aria-hidden="true" style="vertical-align: -0.338ex; width:1.636ex; height:2.176ex;" alt="{\displaystyle T}"/></span> is the temperature in electronvolt (eV) and <span class="mwe-math-element"><span class="mwe-math-mathml-inline mwe-math-mathml-a11y" style="display: none;"><math xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1998/Math/MathML" alttext="{\displaystyle n}"> <semantics> <mrow class="MJX-TeXAtom-ORD"> <mstyle displaystyle="true" scriptlevel="0"> <mi>n</mi> </mstyle> </mrow> <annotation encoding="application/x-tex">{\displaystyle n}</annotation> </semantics> </math></span><img src="https://wikimedia.org/api/rest_v1/media/math/render/svg/a601995d55609f2d9f5e233e36fbe9ea26011b3b" class="mwe-math-fallback-image-inline mw-invert skin-invert" aria-hidden="true" style="vertical-align: -0.338ex; width:1.395ex; height:1.676ex;" alt="{\displaystyle n}"/></span> is the particle density.</p></blockquote> <p>However, there is no clear explanation given as to why the energy density equals 3nT, rather than 2nT or just nT. If the electrons and ions are in equal parts within the plasma, shouldn't it equal 2nT? </p><p>Is there any source that clears this up? <small class="autosigned">— Preceding <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Signatures" title="Wikipedia:Signatures">unsigned</a> comment added by <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Shouldputsomethinginterestinghere&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Shouldputsomethinginterestinghere (page does not exist)">Shouldputsomethinginterestinghere</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Shouldputsomethinginterestinghere#top" title="User talk:Shouldputsomethinginterestinghere">talk</a> • <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Shouldputsomethinginterestinghere" title="Special:Contributions/Shouldputsomethinginterestinghere">contribs</a>) 11:28, 27 November 2024 (UTC)</small> <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Shouldputsomethinginterestinghere&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Shouldputsomethinginterestinghere (page does not exist)">Shouldputsomethinginterestinghere</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Shouldputsomethinginterestinghere" title="User talk:Shouldputsomethinginterestinghere">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Science#c-Shouldputsomethinginterestinghere-20241127112800-Lawson_Criterion:_calculating_energy_density_W" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">11:27, 27 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Shouldputsomethinginterestinghere-20241127112800-Lawson_Criterion:_calculating_energy_density_W"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Shouldputsomethinginterestinghere-20241127112800-Lawson_Criterion:_calculating_energy_density_W"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Ruslik0-20241127205600-Shouldputsomethinginterestinghere-20241127112800"></span>The energy density of a <a href="/wiki/Monoatomic_gas" class="mw-redirect" title="Monoatomic gas">monoatomic gas</a> is <span class="mwe-math-element"><span class="mwe-math-mathml-inline mwe-math-mathml-a11y" style="display: none;"><math xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1998/Math/MathML" alttext="{\displaystyle E={\frac {3}{2}}nT}"> <semantics> <mrow class="MJX-TeXAtom-ORD"> <mstyle displaystyle="true" scriptlevel="0"> <mi>E</mi> <mo>=</mo> <mrow class="MJX-TeXAtom-ORD"> <mfrac> <mn>3</mn> <mn>2</mn> </mfrac> </mrow> <mi>n</mi> <mi>T</mi> </mstyle> </mrow> <annotation encoding="application/x-tex">{\displaystyle E={\frac {3}{2}}nT}</annotation> </semantics> </math></span><img src="https://wikimedia.org/api/rest_v1/media/math/render/svg/4a39c9d28adc6cf8ba5a55acbf07519e10282197" class="mwe-math-fallback-image-inline mw-invert skin-invert" aria-hidden="true" style="vertical-align: -1.838ex; width:9.904ex; height:5.176ex;" alt="{\displaystyle E={\frac {3}{2}}nT}"/></span>. Both electrons and ions can be considered monoatomic gases, so the total energy density is double of that value. <a href="/wiki/User:Ruslik0" title="User:Ruslik0">Ruslik</a>_<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Ruslik0" title="User talk:Ruslik0"><span style="color:red">Zero</span></a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Science#c-Ruslik0-20241127205600-Shouldputsomethinginterestinghere-20241127112800" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:56, 27 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Ruslik0-20241127205600-Shouldputsomethinginterestinghere-20241127112800"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Ruslik0-20241127205600-Shouldputsomethinginterestinghere-20241127112800"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Wrongfilter-20241127213900-Ruslik0-20241127205600"></span>Depends on what <i>n</i> is precisely. If <i>n</i> is the ion density (equal to the electron density), then <span class="mwe-math-element"><span class="mwe-math-mathml-inline mwe-math-mathml-a11y" style="display: none;"><math xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1998/Math/MathML" alttext="{\displaystyle 2\cdot {\frac {3}{2}}nT}"> <semantics> <mrow class="MJX-TeXAtom-ORD"> <mstyle displaystyle="true" scriptlevel="0"> <mn>2</mn> <mo>⋅</mo> <mrow class="MJX-TeXAtom-ORD"> <mfrac> <mn>3</mn> <mn>2</mn> </mfrac> </mrow> <mi>n</mi> <mi>T</mi> </mstyle> </mrow> <annotation encoding="application/x-tex">{\displaystyle 2\cdot {\frac {3}{2}}nT}</annotation> </semantics> </math></span><img src="https://wikimedia.org/api/rest_v1/media/math/render/svg/6ebb16b521c2d2d93eab73fbe9e79cc9683630a7" class="mwe-math-fallback-image-inline mw-invert skin-invert" aria-hidden="true" style="vertical-align: -1.838ex; width:7.871ex; height:5.176ex;" alt="{\displaystyle 2\cdot {\frac {3}{2}}nT}"/></span> is correct. If taken literally as "particle density" (i.e. ions and electrons combined), then it should still be <span class="mwe-math-element"><span class="mwe-math-mathml-inline mwe-math-mathml-a11y" style="display: none;"><math xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1998/Math/MathML" alttext="{\displaystyle {\frac {3}{2}}nT}"> <semantics> <mrow class="MJX-TeXAtom-ORD"> <mstyle displaystyle="true" scriptlevel="0"> <mrow class="MJX-TeXAtom-ORD"> <mfrac> <mn>3</mn> <mn>2</mn> </mfrac> </mrow> <mi>n</mi> <mi>T</mi> </mstyle> </mrow> <annotation encoding="application/x-tex">{\displaystyle {\frac {3}{2}}nT}</annotation> </semantics> </math></span><img src="https://wikimedia.org/api/rest_v1/media/math/render/svg/6c419a18a8664d5c1b901cf9ff2680850be4938b" class="mwe-math-fallback-image-inline mw-invert skin-invert" aria-hidden="true" style="vertical-align: -1.838ex; width:5.03ex; height:5.176ex;" alt="{\displaystyle {\frac {3}{2}}nT}"/></span>. I assume that the former is meant, but the formulation seems ambiguous. --<a href="/wiki/User:Wrongfilter" title="User:Wrongfilter">Wrongfilter</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Wrongfilter" title="User talk:Wrongfilter">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Science#c-Wrongfilter-20241127213900-Ruslik0-20241127205600" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:39, 27 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Wrongfilter-20241127213900-Ruslik0-20241127205600"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Wrongfilter-20241127213900-Ruslik0-20241127205600"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="stage_4_breast_cancer" data-mw-thread-id="h-stage_4_breast_cancer-November_27-20241127222200"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-stage_4_breast_cancer-November_27-20241127222200"></span>stage 4 breast cancer<span data-mw-comment-end="h-stage_4_breast_cancer-November_27-20241127222200"></span></h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-2601:644:8581:75B0:0:0:0:6B00-20241127222200-stage_4_breast_cancer"></span>I'm not seeking medical advice, but stage 4 cancer means you're gonna die from it imminently, can someone confirm? Or is it <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/former-mtv-vj-ananda-lewis-184257672.html">wait, what??</a> Maybe I'm confused. Thanks. <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/2601:644:8581:75B0:0:0:0:6B00" title="Special:Contributions/2601:644:8581:75B0:0:0:0:6B00">2601:644:8581:75B0:0:0:0:6B00</a> (<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:2601:644:8581:75B0:0:0:0:6B00&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User talk:2601:644:8581:75B0:0:0:0:6B00 (page does not exist)">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Science#c-2601:644:8581:75B0:0:0:0:6B00-20241127222200-stage_4_breast_cancer" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:22, 27 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-2601:644:8581:75B0:0:0:0:6B00-20241127222200-stage_4_breast_cancer"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-2601:644:8581:75B0:0:0:0:6B00-20241127222200-stage_4_breast_cancer"></span> </p> <ul><li><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Abductive-20241128065200-2601:644:8581:75B0:0:0:0:6B00-20241127222200"></span>According to <a href="/wiki/Breast_cancer_classification" title="Breast cancer classification">breast cancer classification</a>, Stage IV means the cancer has <a href="/wiki/Metastasized" class="mw-redirect" title="Metastasized">metastasized</a>, that is, tumors that have "broken off" of the original tumor have appeared elsewhere in the body. "<a href="/wiki/Metastatic_breast_cancer" title="Metastatic breast cancer">Metastatic breast cancer</a> has a less favorable <a href="/wiki/Prognosis" title="Prognosis">prognosis</a>." <span style="font-family: Cambria;"> <a href="/wiki/User:Abductive" title="User:Abductive"><span style="color: teal;"><b>Abductive</b></span></a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Abductive" title="User talk:Abductive">reasoning</a>)</span> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Science#c-Abductive-20241128065200-2601:644:8581:75B0:0:0:0:6B00-20241127222200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">06:52, 28 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Abductive-20241128065200-2601:644:8581:75B0:0:0:0:6B00-20241127222200"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Abductive-20241128065200-2601:644:8581:75B0:0:0:0:6B00-20241127222200"></span></li></ul> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading1"><h1 id="November_28" data-mw-thread-id="h-November_28-20241128031100"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-November_28-20241128031100"></span>November 28<span data-mw-comment-end="h-November_28-20241128031100"></span></h1></div> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Are_there_any_volatile_gold_compounds?" data-mw-thread-id="h-Are_there_any_volatile_gold_compounds?-November_28-20241128031100"><span id="Are_there_any_volatile_gold_compounds.3F"></span><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Are_there_any_volatile_gold_compounds?-November_28-20241128031100"></span>Are there any volatile gold compounds?<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Are_there_any_volatile_gold_compounds?-November_28-20241128031100"></span></h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Double_sharp-20241128031100-Are_there_any_volatile_gold_compounds?"></span>Title. Let's say "boiling point under 500°C" counts (as long as it actually boils and doesn't decompose). :) <a href="/wiki/User:Double_sharp" title="User:Double sharp">Double sharp</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Double_sharp" title="User talk:Double sharp">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Science#c-Double_sharp-20241128031100-Are_there_any_volatile_gold_compounds?" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">03:11, 28 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Double_sharp-20241128031100-Are_there_any_volatile_gold_compounds?"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Double_sharp-20241128031100-Are_there_any_volatile_gold_compounds?"></span> </p> <dl><dd><a href="/wiki/Gold(III)_fluoride" title="Gold(III) fluoride"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-DMacks-20241128035800-Double_sharp-20241128031100"></span>Gold(III) fluoride</a> apparently undergoes "sublimation above 300 °C". Tracing the dewiki article's data suggests this comes from CRC 10th ed. <a href="//doi.org/10.1016/0022-328X(87)80355-8" class="extiw" title="doi:10.1016/0022-328X(87)80355-8">doi:10.1016/0022-328X(87)80355-8</a> is a lead article about volatile gold compounds, but these (and others I found) are generally about transferring as a vapor for CVD, nanoparticle formation, or other short-timeframe processes, so probably low pressure and maybe not highly stable in the vapor phase. <a href="/wiki/User:DMacks" title="User:DMacks">DMacks</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:DMacks" title="User talk:DMacks">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Science#c-DMacks-20241128035800-Double_sharp-20241128031100" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">03:58, 28 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-DMacks-20241128035800-Double_sharp-20241128031100"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-DMacks-20241128035800-Double_sharp-20241128031100"></span></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Leiem-20241128042400-Double_sharp-20241128031100"></span>The compound [Me<sub>2</sub>AuOSiMe<sub>3</sub>]<sub>2</sub> sublimes at 40 °C (0.001 mmHg) without decomposition. (<a href="//doi.org/10.1002/anie.196706831" class="extiw" title="doi:10.1002/anie.196706831">doi:10.1002/anie.196706831</a>) --<a href="/wiki/User:Leiem" title="User:Leiem">Leiem</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Leiem" title="User talk:Leiem">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Science#c-Leiem-20241128042400-Double_sharp-20241128031100" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">04:24, 28 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Leiem-20241128042400-Double_sharp-20241128031100"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Leiem-20241128042400-Double_sharp-20241128031100"></span></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Closure,_does_it_exist_in_physics?" data-mw-thread-id="h-Closure,_does_it_exist_in_physics?-November_28-20241128083500"><span id="Closure.2C_does_it_exist_in_physics.3F"></span><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Closure,_does_it_exist_in_physics?-November_28-20241128083500"></span><a href="/wiki/Closure_(mathematics)" title="Closure (mathematics)">Closure</a>, does it exist in physics?<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Closure,_does_it_exist_in_physics?-November_28-20241128083500"></span></h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-HOTmag-20241128083500-Closure,_does_it_exist_in_physics?"></span>In mathematics, closures are pretty common, e.g. a sum of positive/negative numbers is a positive/negative sum - respectively, and a space of two/three dimensional bodies is a two/three dimensional space - respectively, and so forth. </p><p>I wonder if closures also exist in physics, i.e. when the closed properties are physical rather than mathematical, i.e. I'm not interested in applying mathematical properties - like a sum or a space - in physics: e.g. when we say that "a <b>sum</b> of two electric forces is an electric force": It's a bad example for closures in physics, because a "sum" is a methematical property, whereas I'm only interested in purely physical examples. </p><p>The above-mentioned example for closures in physics is bad also for another reason: Whereas there is a concrete difference between an electric field and a magnetic field (e.g. by how they influence a stationary body), there is no concrete difference between an electric force and a magnetic force: They influence a given body by the same way, e.g. if their value is 1 <s>kg</s> N they will accelerate a given body by the same acceleration, so the only difference (if at all) between an electric force and a magnetic force and a gravitaional force is "historical", i.e. it only tells us whether the source of that force, was an electric field or a magnetic field or a gravitational field. </p><p><a href="/wiki/User:HOTmag" title="User:HOTmag">HOTmag</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:HOTmag" title="User talk:HOTmag">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Science#c-HOTmag-20241128083500-Closure,_does_it_exist_in_physics?" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">08:35, 28 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-HOTmag-20241128083500-Closure,_does_it_exist_in_physics?"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-HOTmag-20241128083500-Closure,_does_it_exist_in_physics?"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Philvoids-20241128134000-HOTmag-20241128083500"></span>1 <a href="/wiki/Kilogram" title="Kilogram">kg</a> is the unit of mass and not of force for which physicists have another unit <a href="/wiki/Newton_(unit)" title="Newton (unit)">Newton (the force to accelerate 1 kg at 1 m/s<sup>2)</sup></a> and your <a href="/wiki/Greengrocer" title="Greengrocer">Greengrocer</a> uses a scale that displays W(kg)=mg. Mathematical <a href="/wiki/Addition" title="Addition">Addition</a> (or summation), whether of scalar or vector quantities, is defined in abstract symbols. Those symbols may represent any physically real quantities and the summation result is equally real. That is no set-limited exercise or example-setting in <a href="/wiki/Set_theory" title="Set theory">Set theory</a> and physical science is well enough aware that that there can be four (not just 3) <a href="/wiki/Fundamental_interaction" title="Fundamental interaction">fundamental forces viz. gravity, electromagnetism, weak interaction and strong interaction</a> that act in combination and cease to be explicitly separable in the result. <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Philvoids&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Philvoids (page does not exist)">Philvoids</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Philvoids" title="User talk:Philvoids">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Science#c-Philvoids-20241128134000-HOTmag-20241128083500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">13:40, 28 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Philvoids-20241128134000-HOTmag-20241128083500"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Philvoids-20241128134000-HOTmag-20241128083500"></span> <dl><dd><small><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-HOTmag-20241128140800-Philvoids-20241128134000"></span>Yes, I really meant Newton (sometimes people tend to replace weight by mass, but this mistake is so widespread - mainly in daily life, that it should be forgiven when readers understand what the speaker meant). Additionally I didn't want to mention the other forces becuase they are not useful in daily life.</small></dd> <dd>As for your main response, I didn't fully understand it: Do you claim that there don't exist closures in physics, although there are closures in mathematics? <a href="/wiki/User:HOTmag" title="User:HOTmag">HOTmag</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:HOTmag" title="User talk:HOTmag">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Science#c-HOTmag-20241128140800-Philvoids-20241128134000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">14:08, 28 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-HOTmag-20241128140800-Philvoids-20241128134000"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-HOTmag-20241128140800-Philvoids-20241128134000"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl> <p>Are <a href="/wiki/Symmetry_(physics)" title="Symmetry (physics)">Symmetry (physics)</a> and <a href="/wiki/Conservation_law" title="Conservation law">Conservation law</a> what you're after? </p></div><noscript><img src="https://login.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:CentralAutoLogin/start?type=1x1&useformat=desktop" alt="" width="1" height="1" style="border: none; position: absolute;"></noscript> <div class="printfooter" data-nosnippet="">Retrieved from "<a dir="ltr" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Science&oldid=1260040545">https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Science&oldid=1260040545</a>"</div></div> <div id="catlinks" class="catlinks" data-mw="interface"><div id="mw-normal-catlinks" class="mw-normal-catlinks"><a href="/wiki/Help:Category" title="Help:Category">Categories</a>: <ul><li><a href="/wiki/Category:Wikipedia_resources_for_researchers" title="Category:Wikipedia resources for researchers">Wikipedia resources for researchers</a></li><li><a href="/wiki/Category:Wikipedia_help_forums" title="Category:Wikipedia help forums">Wikipedia help forums</a></li><li><a href="/wiki/Category:Wikipedia_reference_desk" title="Category:Wikipedia reference desk">Wikipedia reference desk</a></li></ul></div><div id="mw-hidden-catlinks" class="mw-hidden-catlinks mw-hidden-cats-hidden">Hidden categories: <ul><li><a href="/wiki/Category:Non-talk_pages_that_are_automatically_signed" title="Category:Non-talk pages that are automatically signed">Non-talk pages that are automatically signed</a></li><li><a href="/wiki/Category:Pages_automatically_checked_for_incorrect_links" title="Category:Pages automatically checked for incorrect links">Pages automatically checked for incorrect links</a></li><li><a href="/wiki/Category:Wikipedia_help_pages_with_dated_sections" title="Category:Wikipedia help pages with dated sections">Wikipedia help pages with dated sections</a></li></ul></div></div> </div> </main> </div> <div class="mw-footer-container"> <footer id="footer" class="mw-footer" > <ul id="footer-info"> <li id="footer-info-lastmod"> This page was last edited on 28 November 2024, at 14:24<span class="anonymous-show"> (UTC)</span>.</li> <li id="footer-info-copyright"><span class="nowraplinks">This version of the page has been <a href="/wiki/Help:Page_history" title="Help:Page history">revised</a>. 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