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data-event-name="pinnable-header.vector-toc.pin">move to sidebar</button> <button class="vector-pinnable-header-toggle-button vector-pinnable-header-unpin-button" data-event-name="pinnable-header.vector-toc.unpin">hide</button> </div> <ul class="vector-toc-contents" id="mw-panel-toc-list"> <li id="toc-mw-content-text" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a href="#" class="vector-toc-link"> <div class="vector-toc-text">(Top)</div> </a> </li> <li id="toc-Untitled" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1 vector-toc-list-item-expanded"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Untitled"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">1</span> <span>Untitled</span> </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Untitled-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-John_Brown" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1 vector-toc-list-item-expanded"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#John_Brown"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">2</span> <span>John Brown</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">1 comment</span> <ul id="toc-John_Brown-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Links_to_here_that_require_fixing" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1 vector-toc-list-item-expanded"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Links_to_here_that_require_fixing"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">3</span> <span>Links to here that require fixing</span> </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Links_to_here_that_require_fixing-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Infamous_raid?" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1 vector-toc-list-item-expanded"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Infamous_raid?"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">4</span> <span>Infamous raid?</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">3 comments</span> <ul id="toc-Infamous_raid?-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-The_link_and/or_description_for_John_Elward_Brown,_Sr._is_incorrect" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1 vector-toc-list-item-expanded"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#The_link_and/or_description_for_John_Elward_Brown,_Sr._is_incorrect"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">5</span> <span>The link and/or description for John Elward Brown, Sr. is incorrect</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">1 comment</span> <ul id="toc-The_link_and/or_description_for_John_Elward_Brown,_Sr._is_incorrect-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-John_Brown's_Body" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1 vector-toc-list-item-expanded"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#John_Brown's_Body"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">6</span> <span>John Brown's Body</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">1 comment</span> <ul id="toc-John_Brown's_Body-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Primary_topic,_John_Brown_abolitionist?" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1 vector-toc-list-item-expanded"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Primary_topic,_John_Brown_abolitionist?"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">7</span> <span>Primary topic, John Brown abolitionist?</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">4 comments</span> <ul id="toc-Primary_topic,_John_Brown_abolitionist?-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-"John._W._Brown"_listed_at_Redirects_for_discussion" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1 vector-toc-list-item-expanded"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#"John._W._Brown"_listed_at_Redirects_for_discussion"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">8</span> <span>"John. W. 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If you wish to help, you can <span class="plainlinks"><a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=John_Brown&action=edit">edit the page</a></span> attached to this talk page, or visit the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Disambiguation" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Disambiguation">project page</a>, where you can join the project or contribute to the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Disambiguation" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Disambiguation">discussion</a>.<span class="metadata wpb-metadata"><span class="wpb-project">Disambiguation</span><span class="wpb-project_link">Wikipedia:WikiProject Disambiguation</span><span class="wpb-banner_name">Template:WikiProject Disambiguation</span><span class="wpb-assessment_cat">Disambiguation articles</span></span></td><td class="mbox-empty-cell"></td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr></tbody></table> <hr/> <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1237879475"><table class="plainlinks tmbox tmbox-move" role="presentation"><tbody><tr><td class="mbox-image"><span typeof="mw:File"><span><img alt="" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/e/e0/Merge-split-transwiki_default.svg/36px-Merge-split-transwiki_default.svg.png" decoding="async" width="36" height="40" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/e/e0/Merge-split-transwiki_default.svg/54px-Merge-split-transwiki_default.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/e/e0/Merge-split-transwiki_default.svg/72px-Merge-split-transwiki_default.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="36" data-file-height="40"/></span></span></td><td class="mbox-text">On 13 May 2023, it was proposed that this article be <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Requested_moves" title="Wikipedia:Requested moves">moved</a> to <a href="/wiki/John_Brown_(disambiguation)" class="mw-redirect mw-disambig" title="John Brown (disambiguation)">John Brown (disambiguation)</a>. The result of <a href="/wiki/Special:PermanentLink/1155826667#Requested_move_13_May_2023" title="Special:PermanentLink/1155826667">the discussion</a> was <b>not moved</b>.</td></tr></tbody></table> <meta property="mw:PageProp/toc"/> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Untitled" data-mw-thread-id="h-Untitled"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Untitled"></span>Untitled<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Untitled"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Talk:John_Brown&action=edit&section=1" title="Edit section: Untitled"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span></div> <p>This is an excellent and thorough article. My only suggestion would be to add some reference to the song "John Brown's Body" that emerged after his death (for which new lyrics were written as the "Battle Hymn of the Republic"). </p><p><br/> </p> <hr/> <p>John Brown is a pretty common name. Another one is mentioned in <a href="/wiki/Victoria_of_the_United_Kingdom" class="mw-redirect" title="Victoria of the United Kingdom">Victoria of the United Kingdom</a>. </p><p>Somebody needs to disambiguate this abolitionist John Brown that the song is about from Queen Victoria's John Brown that the movie <i>Mrs. Brown</i> is about and that I have a picture or two of that I want to post. -- <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Isis&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Isis (page does not exist)">isis</a> 26 Aug 2002 </p><p><br/> </p> <dl><dd>Maybe we should disambiguate by year of birth, eg "John Brown (1859)". I don't think we'll ever come up with a satisfying, simple, intuitive qualifier. "John Brown (Queen Victoria)" is a bit long and unwieldy. -- <a href="/wiki/User:Tarquin" title="User:Tarquin">Tarquin</a> 13:52 Aug 26, 2002 (PDT)</dd></dl> <p>I was thinking of birth and death dates in parentheses and/or nationality: Scot and American. The only alternative I can see is to call one a lover and the other a fighter. -- <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Isis&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Isis (page does not exist)">isis</a> </p> <dl><dd>We have used nationality before. See <a href="/wiki/Piet_Hein_(Denmark)" class="mw-redirect" title="Piet Hein (Denmark)">Piet Hein (Denmark)</a> and <a href="/wiki/Piet_Hein_(Netherlands)" class="mw-redirect" title="Piet Hein (Netherlands)">Piet Hein (Netherlands)</a>. <a href="/wiki/User:Rmhermen" title="User:Rmhermen">Rmhermen</a> 16:24 Aug 26, 2002 (PDT)</dd></dl> <p>I would much prefer to use dates to distinguish them, but that's not helpful in this case, because their lives overlapped [(1800 - 1859) for the abolitionist and (1826 - 1883) for the ghillie], so a person who knew the man they were looking up lived in the middle half of the 19th century would not be able to tell which it was. I think the nationality would be more helpful, but I'm not sure someone would know Victoria's John Brown was a Scot (if they just had his name mentioned in passing in some article about her), and Buchanan's John Brown could have been a Scot by birth (tho he wasn't).<br/> So I would like to distinguish them by what they did, which raises the issue of how to label them. I was born and reared in Virginia, and the first epithet that comes to my mind for Buchanan's John Brown is "terrorist," which may not be NPOV enough, altho he WAS executed for treason and murder, and if that's not terrorism, what is? (Same problem with "fanatic," plus the other John Brown was gaga about Victoria, too, and so could merit that description.) I'd like to label Victoria's John Brown "ghillie" and then define that in the article, but that wouldn't help the person looking them up who didn't already know that term.<br/> So the best I can suggest, thru gritted teeth, is "abolitionist" and "servant." Can anyone else, please, please, please, do better? -- <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Isis&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Isis (page does not exist)">isis</a> </p><p><br/> </p> <hr/> <p>General discussion at <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Naming_conventions_(people_with_the_same_name)" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia talk:Naming conventions (people with the same name)">Wikipedia talk:Naming conventions (people with the same name)</a> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="John_Brown" data-mw-thread-id="h-John_Brown-2008-05-03T16:45:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-John_Brown-2008-05-03T16:45:00.000Z"></span>John Brown<span data-mw-comment-end="h-John_Brown-2008-05-03T16:45:00.000Z"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Talk:John_Brown&action=edit&section=2" title="Edit section: John Brown"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-155.58.116.247-2008-05-03T16:45:00.000Z-John_Brown"></span>Has anyone heard the saying, "I'll be John Brown!" Both my husband and I, who grew up about 100 miles apart in Arkansas/Louisiana, use this saying. Does anyone know the origin? <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/155.58.116.247" title="Special:Contributions/155.58.116.247">155.58.116.247</a> (<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:155.58.116.247&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User talk:155.58.116.247 (page does not exist)">talk</a>) 16:45, 3 May 2008 (UTC)SSWaites<a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/155.58.116.247" title="Special:Contributions/155.58.116.247">155.58.116.247</a> (<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:155.58.116.247&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User talk:155.58.116.247 (page does not exist)">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:John_Brown#c-155.58.116.247-2008-05-03T16:45:00.000Z-John_Brown" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:45, 3 May 2008 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-155.58.116.247-2008-05-03T16:45:00.000Z-John_Brown"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-155.58.116.247-2008-05-03T16:45:00.000Z-John_Brown"></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Links_to_here_that_require_fixing" data-mw-thread-id="h-Links_to_here_that_require_fixing"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Links_to_here_that_require_fixing"></span>Links to here that require fixing<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Links_to_here_that_require_fixing"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Talk:John_Brown&action=edit&section=3" title="Edit section: Links to here that require fixing"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span></div> <ul><li><a href="/wiki/Encyclop%C3%A6dia_Perthensis" title="Encyclopædia Perthensis">Encyclopædia Perthensis</a> mentions a John Brown (possibly a company, not a person) who was a publisher in Edinburgh in 1816</li> <li><a href="/wiki/Colonial_Heads_of_the_Bahamas" class="mw-redirect" title="Colonial Heads of the Bahamas">Colonial Heads of the Bahamas</a> mentions a John Brown who was acting Governor from 1786 to 1787</li> <li><a href="/wiki/Elections_and_parties_in_Norfolk_Island" title="Elections and parties in Norfolk Island">Elections and parties in Norfolk Island</a> mentions a John Brown who is a member of the Norfolk Legislative Assembly</li> <li><a href="/wiki/Sebastian_Snow" title="Sebastian Snow">Sebastian Snow</a> mentions a John Brown</li> <li><a href="/wiki/Rangers_F.C._Hall_of_Fame" class="mw-redirect" title="Rangers F.C. Hall of Fame">Rangers F.C. Hall of Fame</a> mentions a John Brown who is a football player</li> <li><a href="/wiki/List_of_Members_of_the_Canadian_House_of_Commons_-_B" class="mw-redirect" title="List of Members of the Canadian House of Commons - B">List of Members of the Canadian House of Commons - B</a> mentions a John Brown who was elected in 1891 as Liberal member for Monck, Ontario</li></ul> <p><small>—Preceding <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Signatures" title="Wikipedia:Signatures">unsigned</a> comment added by <a href="/wiki/User:Uncle_G" title="User:Uncle G">Uncle G</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Uncle_G" title="User talk:Uncle G">talk</a> • <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Uncle_G" title="Special:Contributions/Uncle G">contribs</a>) </small> </p> <dl><dd>Thanks for listing them. If you'd contribute a short stub with basic biographical data on one or the other that would be great as well. -- User:Docu</dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Infamous_raid?" data-mw-thread-id="h-Infamous_raid?-2006-04-28T22:11:00.000Z"><span id="Infamous_raid.3F"></span><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Infamous_raid?-2006-04-28T22:11:00.000Z"></span>Infamous raid?<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Infamous_raid?-2006-04-28T22:11:00.000Z"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Talk:John_Brown&action=edit&section=4" title="Edit section: Infamous raid?"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Adam_Keller-2006-04-28T22:11:00.000Z-Infamous_raid?"></span>The term used here is not objective </p><p>John Brown (abolitionist) (1800–1859), famous abolitionist who led an infamous raid on Harper's Ferry </p><p>There were at the time, and are today, enough people who think that this raid was not infamous (a very negative term) but rather glorious, and wonderful, and admirable, and what have you. Of course any of these terms would not be very objcetive either. I suggest cahnging it to </p><p>John Brown (abolitionist) (1800–1859), famous abolitionist who led a controversial raid on Harper's Ferry </p><p>There can be no question that the raid was controversial, that is an objective fact whether you are in favor of it or against it. </p><p>Comments, anybody? </p><p><a href="/wiki/User:Adam_Keller" title="User:Adam Keller">Adam Keller</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:John_Brown#c-Adam_Keller-2006-04-28T22:11:00.000Z-Infamous_raid?" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:11, 28 April 2006 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Adam_Keller-2006-04-28T22:11:00.000Z-Infamous_raid?"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Adam_Keller-2006-04-28T22:11:00.000Z-Infamous_raid?"></span> </p><p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Vultur-2007-05-23T17:45:00.000Z-Infamous_raid?"></span>Sounds good. Yeah, John Brown is a very controversial figure and any value judgment wll be very easily contested. I'll do it. <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Vultur&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Vultur (page does not exist)">Vultur</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:John_Brown#c-Vultur-2007-05-23T17:45:00.000Z-Infamous_raid?" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:45, 23 May 2007 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Vultur-2007-05-23T17:45:00.000Z-Infamous_raid?"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Vultur-2007-05-23T17:45:00.000Z-Infamous_raid?"></span> </p><p><br/><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-63.152.103.93-2016-04-10T15:14:00.000Z-Infamous_raid?"></span> I think the term Terrorist would be the most objective albeit likely unfavorable due to our post 9/11 anti-Muslim prejudice that makes a deluded segment of modern America unable to accept the fact that their hero is more morally akin to the Daesh than to the persona created to mask the true nature of the agressor state. John Brown's terrorist act was undertaken as an attempt to cause millions of people, including almost all "slaves"(i.e. defacto Serfs/peasents since slaves don't reproduce at replacement rates) and southern townsfolk, to be killed in a senseless slaughter that, if it occurred, would've been more like the Cambodian genocide with families being forced to murder their members as the extermination of "Uncle Toms", in a society where master-peasant relations were more akin to familial ties than business arrangements, would've wiped out 80+% of blacks in America. If Osama Bin Laden, a man who wanted to kill no more than ~500 Americans to incite a coup/revolution in Saudi Arabia, is a terrorist, then John Brown is the absolute pinnacle of terrorist leaders. Osama didn't want to target women and children but John Brown wanted to exterminate all southern civilians. Racism is, at its core, a fear of competition from a self-sustaining group that one cannot join. The extermination of blacks and southern whites in America would've been very popular to the northerners who saw manumissions as a constant source of competition. John Brown would've been very convenient to the north if his terrorist attack succeeded. <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/63.152.103.93" title="Special:Contributions/63.152.103.93">63.152.103.93</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:63.152.103.93" title="User talk:63.152.103.93">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:John_Brown#c-63.152.103.93-2016-04-10T15:14:00.000Z-Infamous_raid?" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:14, 10 April 2016 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-63.152.103.93-2016-04-10T15:14:00.000Z-Infamous_raid?"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-63.152.103.93-2016-04-10T15:14:00.000Z-Infamous_raid?"></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="The_link_and/or_description_for_John_Elward_Brown,_Sr._is_incorrect" data-mw-thread-id="h-The_link_and/or_description_for_John_Elward_Brown,_Sr._is_incorrect-2008-02-15T08:33:00.000Z"><span id="The_link_and.2For_description_for_John_Elward_Brown.2C_Sr._is_incorrect"></span><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-The_link_and/or_description_for_John_Elward_Brown,_Sr._is_incorrect-2008-02-15T08:33:00.000Z"></span>The link and/or description for John Elward Brown, Sr. is incorrect<span data-mw-comment-end="h-The_link_and/or_description_for_John_Elward_Brown,_Sr._is_incorrect-2008-02-15T08:33:00.000Z"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Talk:John_Brown&action=edit&section=5" title="Edit section: The link and/or description for John Elward Brown, Sr. is incorrect"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-SJCarlson22-2008-02-15T08:33:00.000Z-The_link_and/or_description_for_John_Elward_Brown,_Sr._is_incorrect"></span>The page redirects incorrectly. Somebody please fix/correct this. <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:SJCarlson22&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:SJCarlson22 (page does not exist)">SJCarlson22</a> (<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:SJCarlson22&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User talk:SJCarlson22 (page does not exist)">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:John_Brown#c-SJCarlson22-2008-02-15T08:33:00.000Z-The_link_and/or_description_for_John_Elward_Brown,_Sr._is_incorrect" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">08:33, 15 February 2008 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-SJCarlson22-2008-02-15T08:33:00.000Z-The_link_and/or_description_for_John_Elward_Brown,_Sr._is_incorrect"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-SJCarlson22-2008-02-15T08:33:00.000Z-The_link_and/or_description_for_John_Elward_Brown,_Sr._is_incorrect"></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="John_Brown's_Body" data-mw-thread-id="h-John_Brown's_Body-2008-07-24T01:00:00.000Z"><span id="John_Brown.27s_Body"></span><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-John_Brown's_Body-2008-07-24T01:00:00.000Z"></span>John Brown's Body<span data-mw-comment-end="h-John_Brown's_Body-2008-07-24T01:00:00.000Z"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Talk:John_Brown&action=edit&section=6" title="Edit section: John Brown's Body"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Jeremytrewindixon-2008-07-24T01:00:00.000Z-John_Brown's_Body"></span>I've just deleted claim on the intro of this page that "<a href="/wiki/John_Brown%27s_Body" title="John Brown's Body">John Brown's Body</a>" "orignally referred to "another person". If you go to the Body page it will be seen that (a) the reference is to one theory and (b) it is a misleading reference even to that theory. I suppose there should be some referenc eto the song though.<a href="/wiki/User:Jeremytrewindixon" title="User:Jeremytrewindixon">Jeremy</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Jeremytrewindixon" title="User talk:Jeremytrewindixon">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:John_Brown#c-Jeremytrewindixon-2008-07-24T01:00:00.000Z-John_Brown's_Body" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:00, 24 July 2008 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Jeremytrewindixon-2008-07-24T01:00:00.000Z-John_Brown's_Body"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Jeremytrewindixon-2008-07-24T01:00:00.000Z-John_Brown's_Body"></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Primary_topic,_John_Brown_abolitionist?" data-mw-thread-id="h-Primary_topic,_John_Brown_abolitionist?-2008-10-22T12:54:00.000Z"><span id="Primary_topic.2C_John_Brown_abolitionist.3F"></span><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Primary_topic,_John_Brown_abolitionist?-2008-10-22T12:54:00.000Z"></span>Primary topic, John Brown abolitionist?<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Primary_topic,_John_Brown_abolitionist?-2008-10-22T12:54:00.000Z"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Talk:John_Brown&action=edit&section=7" title="Edit section: Primary topic, John Brown abolitionist?"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Tassedethe-2008-10-22T12:54:00.000Z-Primary_topic,_John_Brown_abolitionist?"></span>The proper procedure if you believe <a href="/wiki/John_Brown_(abolitionist)" title="John Brown (abolitionist)">John Brown (abolitionist)</a> is the primary topic is to use <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Requested_moves" title="Wikipedia:Requested moves">WP:Requested moves</a>, so that <a href="/wiki/John_Brown" class="mw-disambig" title="John Brown">John Brown</a> can be moved to <a href="/wiki/John_Brown_(disambiguation)" class="mw-redirect mw-disambig" title="John Brown (disambiguation)">John Brown (disambiguation)</a>. It is not proper to cut & paste John Brown to John Brown (disambiguation), which is why I reverted it before. <a href="/wiki/User:Tassedethe" title="User:Tassedethe">Tassedethe</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Tassedethe" title="User talk:Tassedethe">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:John_Brown#c-Tassedethe-2008-10-22T12:54:00.000Z-Primary_topic,_John_Brown_abolitionist?" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">12:54, 22 October 2008 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Tassedethe-2008-10-22T12:54:00.000Z-Primary_topic,_John_Brown_abolitionist?"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Tassedethe-2008-10-22T12:54:00.000Z-Primary_topic,_John_Brown_abolitionist?"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Kauffner-2008-10-22T16:09:00.000Z-Tassedethe-2008-10-22T12:54:00.000Z"></span>After clicking on John Browns, I can report that the abolitionist seems to be the only one with a significant write up. It makes no sense to have him hidden deep in the article. <a href="/wiki/User:Kauffner" title="User:Kauffner">Kauffner</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Kauffner" title="User talk:Kauffner">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:John_Brown#c-Kauffner-2008-10-22T16:09:00.000Z-Tassedethe-2008-10-22T12:54:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:09, 22 October 2008 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Kauffner-2008-10-22T16:09:00.000Z-Tassedethe-2008-10-22T12:54:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Kauffner-2008-10-22T16:09:00.000Z-Tassedethe-2008-10-22T12:54:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Tassedethe-2008-10-23T07:26:00.000Z-Kauffner-2008-10-22T16:09:00.000Z"></span>I agree, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:MOSDAB" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:MOSDAB">WP:MOSDAB</a> guidelines say that the most important items should be at the top of the list. Unfortunately the way it is laid out at the moment contradicts some other guidelines. I am going to put a note at the MOS talk page to request some help with this as I have never had to separate out several entries due to <i>importance</i>, most pages are ordered like this one (by occupation) or by birth date. <a href="/wiki/User:Tassedethe" title="User:Tassedethe">Tassedethe</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Tassedethe" title="User talk:Tassedethe">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:John_Brown#c-Tassedethe-2008-10-23T07:26:00.000Z-Kauffner-2008-10-22T16:09:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">07:26, 23 October 2008 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Tassedethe-2008-10-23T07:26:00.000Z-Kauffner-2008-10-22T16:09:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Tassedethe-2008-10-23T07:26:00.000Z-Kauffner-2008-10-22T16:09:00.000Z"></span></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Tassedethe-2008-10-23T07:38:00.000Z-Kauffner-2008-10-22T16:09:00.000Z"></span>I have added a help request at the talk page <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:MOSDAB#Help_with_John_Brown" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia talk:MOSDAB">here</a>. I hope I have clearly laid out your concerns. <a href="/wiki/User:Tassedethe" title="User:Tassedethe">Tassedethe</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Tassedethe" title="User talk:Tassedethe">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:John_Brown#c-Tassedethe-2008-10-23T07:38:00.000Z-Kauffner-2008-10-22T16:09:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">07:38, 23 October 2008 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Tassedethe-2008-10-23T07:38:00.000Z-Kauffner-2008-10-22T16:09:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Tassedethe-2008-10-23T07:38:00.000Z-Kauffner-2008-10-22T16:09:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id=""John._W._Brown"_listed_at_Redirects_for_discussion" data-mw-thread-id="h-"John._W._Brown"_listed_at_Redirects_for_discussion-2020-03-03T19:42:00.000Z"><span id=".22John._W._Brown.22_listed_at_Redirects_for_discussion"></span><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-"John._W._Brown"_listed_at_Redirects_for_discussion-2020-03-03T19:42:00.000Z"></span>"John. W. Brown" listed at <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Redirects_for_discussion" title="Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion">Redirects for discussion</a><span data-mw-comment-end="h-"John._W._Brown"_listed_at_Redirects_for_discussion-2020-03-03T19:42:00.000Z"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Talk:John_Brown&action=edit&section=8" title="Edit section: "John. W. Brown" listed at Redirects for discussion"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Hog_Farm-2020-03-03T19:42:00.000Z-"John._W._Brown"_listed_at_Redirects_for_discussion"></span><figure class="mw-halign-left" typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Information.svg" class="mw-file-description"><img src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/2/28/Information.svg/30px-Information.svg.png" decoding="async" width="30" height="30" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/2/28/Information.svg/45px-Information.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/2/28/Information.svg/60px-Information.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="256" data-file-height="256"/></a><figcaption></figcaption></figure> <p>An editor has asked for a discussion to address the redirect <a href="/w/index.php?title=John._W._Brown&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="John. W. Brown (page does not exist)">John. W. Brown</a>. Please participate in <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Redirects_for_discussion/Log/2020_March_3#John._W._Brown" title="Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2020 March 3">the redirect discussion</a> if you wish to do so. <a href="/wiki/User:Hog_Farm" title="User:Hog Farm">Hog Farm</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Hog_Farm" title="User talk:Hog Farm">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:John_Brown#c-Hog_Farm-2020-03-03T19:42:00.000Z-"John._W._Brown"_listed_at_Redirects_for_discussion" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:42, 3 March 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Hog_Farm-2020-03-03T19:42:00.000Z-"John._W._Brown"_listed_at_Redirects_for_discussion"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Hog_Farm-2020-03-03T19:42:00.000Z-"John._W._Brown"_listed_at_Redirects_for_discussion"></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Move_discussion_in_progress" data-mw-thread-id="h-Move_discussion_in_progress-2020-06-13T02:46:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Move_discussion_in_progress-2020-06-13T02:46:00.000Z"></span>Move discussion in progress<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Move_discussion_in_progress-2020-06-13T02:46:00.000Z"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Talk:John_Brown&action=edit&section=9" title="Edit section: Move discussion in progress"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-RMCD_bot-2020-06-13T02:46:00.000Z-Move_discussion_in_progress"></span>There is a move discussion in progress on <a href="/wiki/Talk:John_Brown_(abolitionist)#Requested_move_13_June_2020" title="Talk:John Brown (abolitionist)">Talk:John Brown (abolitionist)</a> which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —<a href="/wiki/User:RMCD_bot" title="User:RMCD bot">RMCD bot</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:John_Brown#c-RMCD_bot-2020-06-13T02:46:00.000Z-Move_discussion_in_progress" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:46, 13 June 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-RMCD_bot-2020-06-13T02:46:00.000Z-Move_discussion_in_progress"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-RMCD_bot-2020-06-13T02:46:00.000Z-Move_discussion_in_progress"></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Move_discussion_in_progress_2" data-mw-thread-id="h-Move_discussion_in_progress_2-20230513091500"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Move_discussion_in_progress_2-20230513091500"></span>Move discussion in progress<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Move_discussion_in_progress_2-20230513091500"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Talk:John_Brown&action=edit&section=10" title="Edit section: Move discussion in progress"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-RMCD_bot-20230513091500-Move_discussion_in_progress_2"></span>There is a move discussion in progress on <a href="/wiki/Talk:John_Brown_(abolitionist)#Requested_move_13_May_2023" title="Talk:John Brown (abolitionist)">Talk:John Brown (abolitionist)</a> which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —<a href="/wiki/User:RMCD_bot" title="User:RMCD bot">RMCD bot</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:John_Brown#c-RMCD_bot-20230513091500-Move_discussion_in_progress_2" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">09:15, 13 May 2023 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-RMCD_bot-20230513091500-Move_discussion_in_progress_2"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-RMCD_bot-20230513091500-Move_discussion_in_progress_2"></span> </p>    </div><noscript><img src="https://login.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:CentralAutoLogin/start?type=1x1" alt="" width="1" height="1" style="border: none; position: absolute;"></noscript> <div class="printfooter" data-nosnippet="">Retrieved from "<a dir="ltr" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:John_Brown&oldid=1200393746">https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:John_Brown&oldid=1200393746</a>"</div></div> <div id="catlinks" class="catlinks" data-mw="interface"><div id="mw-normal-catlinks" class="mw-normal-catlinks"><a href="/wiki/Help:Category" title="Help:Category">Categories</a>: <ul><li><a href="/wiki/Category:Disambig-Class_biography_articles" title="Category:Disambig-Class biography articles">Disambig-Class biography articles</a></li><li><a href="/wiki/Category:WikiProject_Disambiguation_pages" title="Category:WikiProject Disambiguation pages">WikiProject Disambiguation pages</a></li></ul></div></div> </div> </main> </div> <div class="mw-footer-container"> <footer id="footer" class="mw-footer" > <ul id="footer-info"> <li id="footer-info-lastmod"> This page was last edited on 29 January 2024, at 11:30<span class="anonymous-show"> (UTC)</span>.</li> <li id="footer-info-copyright">Text is available under the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Text_of_the_Creative_Commons_Attribution-ShareAlike_4.0_International_License" title="Wikipedia:Text of the Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike 4.0 International License">Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike 4.0 License</a>; additional terms may apply. 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