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He was previously a staff writer at The Atlantic, where he covered climate change, energy, and technology.","hasCredential":["Fellow in Journalism at University of Chicago"],"image":"https://heatmap.news/media-library/eyJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiIsInR5cCI6IkpXVCJ9.eyJpbWFnZSI6Imh0dHBzOi8vYXNzZXRzLnJibC5tcy8zMjk5MTA3MS9vcmlnaW4uanBnIiwiZXhwaXJlc19hdCI6MTczNDM3NjA5Nn0.s48GUr3_N5SNs1Zdcz7Mtf1582qAWPoh9v1YO97-hec/image.jpg?width=210","jobTitle":"Founding Executive Editor","knowsAbout":["climate change","science","technology","politics","public policy","decarbonization","environmental policy","government"],"memberOf":["Energy Policy Institute at the University of Chicago"],"name":"Robinson Meyer","sameAs":["https://twitter.com/robinsonmeyer"],"url":"https://heatmap.news/u/robinsonmeyer","worksFor":["Heatmap News"]},"dateModified":"2024-10-16T09:10:03Z","datePublished":"2024-10-16T09:10:03Z","description":"\n\tWhat’s next for the Biden administration — and for climate policy in the United States? Should Democrats negotiate with Republicans over permitting reform, even if it means making concessions to fossil fuel interests? And how should the country’s trade policy handle the problem of carbon pollution...","headline":"Talking Permitting Reform, Trade, and More With Biden’s Top Climate Advisor","image":{"@type":"ImageObject","height":600,"url":"https://heatmap.news/media-library/eyJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiIsInR5cCI6IkpXVCJ9.eyJpbWFnZSI6Imh0dHBzOi8vYXNzZXRzLnJibC5tcy81MzgxMjQ1Ni9vcmlnaW4uanBnIiwiZXhwaXJlc19hdCI6MTc0Mjg4MTUyOH0.lFlZ2wtYLL0QL6JbjfLbsOp47y9nJVKoNxME8AkzERo/image.jpg?width=1200&height=600&coordinates=0%2C100%2C0%2C100","width":1200},"keywords":["Podcast","Homepage ","Politics 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tag-ali-zaidi tag-inflation-reduction-act tag-permitting-reform tag-china tag-climate-policy post-section--podcast" data-category="Podcast"><article elid="2669392157" data-frozen-sections="[]" class="clearfix image-article sm-mb-1 quality-HD post-2669392157" data-category="Podcast"><div class="row px10"><div class="rm-col-center col sm-mb-1" style="width:100.0%;"><div class="widget__body clearfix sm-mt-1"><a class="widget__section js-load-brick-on-click" href="https://heatmap.news/podcast">Podcast</a><h1 class="widget__headline h1"><span class="widget__headline-text custom-post-headline" data-type="text"> Talking Permitting Reform, Trade, and More With Biden’s Top Climate Advisor </span></h1><div class="widget__subheadline"><h2 class="widget__subheadline-text h2" data-type="text"><p>Rob interviews Ali Zaidi at Yale.</p></h2></div><div class="snark-line"><div class="post-credentials"><a class="post-author" href="https://heatmap.news/u/robinsonmeyer"> Robinson Meyer </a><span>•</span><div class="post-date">10/16/2024 </div></div></div></div><div class="widget__head"><picture><source srcset="https://heatmap.news/media-library/eyJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiIsInR5cCI6IkpXVCJ9.eyJpbWFnZSI6Imh0dHBzOi8vYXNzZXRzLnJibC5tcy81MzgxMjQ1Ni9vcmlnaW4uanBnIiwiZXhwaXJlc19hdCI6MTc0Mjg4MTUyOH0.lFlZ2wtYLL0QL6JbjfLbsOp47y9nJVKoNxME8AkzERo/image.jpg?width=1200&height=800&quality=80&coordinates=0%2C0%2C0%2C0 3x, https://heatmap.news/media-library/eyJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiIsInR5cCI6IkpXVCJ9.eyJpbWFnZSI6Imh0dHBzOi8vYXNzZXRzLnJibC5tcy81MzgxMjQ1Ni9vcmlnaW4uanBnIiwiZXhwaXJlc19hdCI6MTc0Mjg4MTUyOH0.lFlZ2wtYLL0QL6JbjfLbsOp47y9nJVKoNxME8AkzERo/image.jpg?width=1200&height=800&quality=80&coordinates=0%2C0%2C0%2C0 2x, https://heatmap.news/media-library/eyJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiIsInR5cCI6IkpXVCJ9.eyJpbWFnZSI6Imh0dHBzOi8vYXNzZXRzLnJibC5tcy81MzgxMjQ1Ni9vcmlnaW4uanBnIiwiZXhwaXJlc19hdCI6MTc0Mjg4MTUyOH0.lFlZ2wtYLL0QL6JbjfLbsOp47y9nJVKoNxME8AkzERo/image.jpg?width=1200&height=800&quality=80&coordinates=0%2C0%2C0%2C0 1x"/><img fetchpriority="high" role="img" alt="Robinson Meyer and Ali Zaidi." aria-label="Robinson Meyer and Ali Zaidi." src="https://heatmap.news/media-library/eyJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiIsInR5cCI6IkpXVCJ9.eyJpbWFnZSI6Imh0dHBzOi8vYXNzZXRzLnJibC5tcy81MzgxMjQ1Ni9vcmlnaW4uanBnIiwiZXhwaXJlc19hdCI6MTc0Mjg4MTUyOH0.lFlZ2wtYLL0QL6JbjfLbsOp47y9nJVKoNxME8AkzERo/image.jpg?width=1200&height=800&quality=80&coordinates=0%2C0%2C0%2C0" style="object-fit: cover;" class="rm-lazyloadable-image rm-hero-media" width="1200" height="800"/></picture></div><div class="widget__body clearfix sm-mt-1"><div class="photo-credit"> Heatmap Illustration/Alex Besser </div><span class="js-scroll-trigger" data-target="body" data-triggers="render-rebelbar" data-toggle-class="with-floating-shares"></span><div id="utm_campaign"></div><div class="body js-expandable clearfix js-listicle-body css-listicle-body-2669392157" data-headline="Talking Permitting Reform, Trade, and More With Biden’s Top Climate Advisor"><div class="body-description"><p class="drop-caps"> What’s next for the Biden administration — and for climate policy in the United States? Should Democrats negotiate with Republicans over permitting reform, even if it means making concessions to fossil fuel interests? And how should the country’s trade policy handle the problem of carbon pollution? </p><p> On this week’s episode of Shift Key, Rob speaks with <a href="https://x.com/alizaidi46" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank"><u>Ali Zaidi</u></a>, the national climate advisor to President Joe Biden. Zaidi leads the White House Climate Policy Office, which coordinates domestic climate policy across federal agencies. Before joining the White House in 2021, Zaidi was the state of New York’s deputy secretary for energy and environment. This interview was recorded live on October 10 in New Haven, Connecticut, at the Yale Clean Energy Conference. </p><p> Shift Key is hosted by Robinson Meyer, the founding executive editor of Heatmap, and Jesse Jenkins, a professor of energy systems engineering at Princeton University. Jesse is out this week. </p><p><strong>Subscribe to “Shift Key” and find this episode on <a href="https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/shift-key-with-robinson-meyer-and-jesse-jenkins/id1728932037" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Apple Podcasts</a>, <a href="https://open.spotify.com/show/0war1dXXCEEZNpZ3H7kRid" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Spotify</a>, <a href="https://music.amazon.com/podcasts/d3491bb8-f4c3-429d-b622-b5d9b1329c69/shift-key-with-robinson-meyer-and-jesse-jenkins" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Amazon</a>, or wherever you get your podcasts.</strong></p><p> You can also add <a href="https://feeds.acast.com/public/shows/65bac3af03341c00164bf93b" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">the show’s RSS feed</a> to your podcast app to follow us directly. </p><center><iframe frameborder="0" height="190px" src="https://embed.acast.com/65bac3af03341c00164bf93b/670f1091c9fa3ffd9eba9726" width="100%"></iframe></center><p> Here is an excerpt from our conversation: </p><blockquote><strong>Ali Zaidi: </strong>The conversation in Congress right now makes it seem like transmission is a Democratic policy priority when it boosts reliability and lowers rates. I thought Republicans and Democrats both agreed we need to boost reliability and lower rates. So I don’t know why that needs to be offset by any measure.<br/><br/> That’s thing number one. Thing number two is … <br/><br/><strong>Robinson Meyer: </strong>This is the challenge of talking about things, is that if Democrats say, <em><em>oh, we really value this</em></em>, then suddenly it’s a Democratic priority.<br/><br/><strong>Zaidi: </strong>Yeah. And then the second is, how do we accelerate the siting and permitting of things and then there is a how do we shift more power to the oil and gas industry. The conversation around leasing, happening against a backdrop where the industry itself is moving away from long-cycle investment to short-cycle investment, it’s tough. So I would hope that more of the permitting conversation were a permitting conversation.<br/><br/><strong>Meyer: </strong>Well, one way this sometimes gets reflected is that you’ll hear environmentalists say, any policy that makes the oil and gas industry happy or bigger, we should not take. And that makes making a compromise …<br/><br/><strong>Zaidi: </strong>And I reject that. Yeah, look, if ExxonMobil wants to pay for a pipeline that will help us deliver what was once solar and wind, as a fuel, to help us decarbonize a steel plant, they can be for it and I can be for it. If there is a — Blackstone, for example, has a <a href="https://tallgrass.com/newsroom/press-releases/blackstone-infrastructure-partners-enters-into-definitive-agreement-to-acquire-controlling-interest-in-tallgrass-energy" target="_blank">Project Tallgrass</a> that has converted a pipeline that used to pull hydrocarbons out of the ground. It’s now flipped the pipeline around, and is putting CO2 into the ground.<br/><br/> They can be for that. I can be for that — not speaking to the specific project, but conceptually. So I don’t think … It’s not the actor. It’s the question of whether this is directionally consistent with trying to chase down a 1.5 degree future or not. <br/><br/> We are behind as a world, and we need to run faster in that direction. If it’s not directionally consistent, that’s a problem. </blockquote><div class="horizontal-rule"></div><p> This episode of Shift Key is sponsored by … </p><p><div class="middle_leaderboard"></div></p><p><strong>Watershed</strong>’s climate data engine helps companies measure and reduce their emissions, turning the data they already have into an audit-ready carbon footprint backed by the latest climate science. Get the sustainability data you need in weeks, not months. Learn more at <a href="https://watershed.com/" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">watershed.com</a>. </p><p> As a global leader in PV and ESS solutions, <strong>Sungrow</strong> invests heavily in research and development, constantly pushing the boundaries of solar and battery inverter technology. Discover why Sungrow is the essential component of the clean energy transition by visiting <a href="https://en.sungrowpower.com/" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">sungrowpower.com</a>. </p><p><strong>Intersolar & Energy Storage North America</strong> is the premier U.S.-based conference and trade show focused on solar, energy storage, and EV charging infrastructure. To learn more, visit <a href="https://www.intersolar.us/" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">intersolar.us</a>. </p><p> Music for Shift Key is by Adam Kromelow. </p></div></div><span class="" data-elid="2669392157" data-post-url="https://heatmap.news/podcast/shift-key-s2-e10-ali-zaidi" data-authors="Robinson Meyer" data-headline="Talking Permitting Reform, Trade, and More With Biden’s Top Climate Advisor" data-page-title="Talking Permitting Reform, Trade, and More With Biden’s Top Climate Advisor - Heatmap News"></span><div class="widget__shares share-panel"><a href="https://www.facebook.com/sharer/sharer.php?u=https%3A%2F%2Fheatmap.news%2Fpodcast%2Fshift-key-s2-e10-ali-zaidi%3Fxrs%3DRebelMouse_fb%26ts%3D1729069803" target="_blank" data-track-share="Facebook" class="share share-popup share-fb" rel="noopener noreferrer" aria-label="Share on Facebook"><i aria-hidden="true" class="icons-share fb fa fa-facebook"></i></a><a href="https://twitter.com/intent/tweet?url=https://heatmap.news/podcast/shift-key-s2-e10-ali-zaidi&text=Talking%20Permitting%20Reform%2C%20Trade%2C%20and%20More%20With%20Biden%E2%80%99s%20Top%20Climate%20Advisor&" target="_blank" data-track-share="Twitter" class="share share-popup share-tw" rel="noopener noreferrer" aria-label="Share on Twitter"><i aria-hidden="true" class="icons-share tw fa fa-twitter"></i></a><a href="mailto:?subject=Talking%20Permitting%20Reform%2C%20Trade%2C%20and%20More%20With%20Biden%E2%80%99s%20Top%20Climate%20Advisor&body=https://heatmap.news/podcast/shift-key-s2-e10-ali-zaidi" target="_blank" data-track-share="Email" class="share share-popup share-email" rel="noopener noreferrer" aria-label="Share via Email"><i aria-hidden="true" class="icons-share em fa fa-envelope"></i></a><a href="https://heatmap.news/podcast/shift-key-s2-e10-ali-zaidi" data-clipboard-text="https://heatmap.news/podcast/shift-key-s2-e10-ali-zaidi" class="share share-copy-link" title="Copy this link to clipboard"><i class="icons-share" style="width: 60%"><svg aria-hidden="true" data-prefix="far" data-icon="copy" class="svg-inline--fa fa-copy fa-w-14" role="img" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" viewbox="0 0 448 512"><path fill="currentColor" d="M433.941 65.941l-51.882-51.882A48 48 0 0 0 348.118 0H176c-26.51 0-48 21.49-48 48v48H48c-26.51 0-48 21.49-48 48v320c0 26.51 21.49 48 48 48h224c26.51 0 48-21.49 48-48v-48h80c26.51 0 48-21.49 48-48V99.882a48 48 0 0 0-14.059-33.941zM266 464H54a6 6 0 0 1-6-6V150a6 6 0 0 1 6-6h74v224c0 26.51 21.49 48 48 48h96v42a6 6 0 0 1-6 6zm128-96H182a6 6 0 0 1-6-6V54a6 6 0 0 1 6-6h106v88c0 13.255 10.745 24 24 24h88v202a6 6 0 0 1-6 6zm6-256h-64V48h9.632c1.591 0 3.117.632 4.243 1.757l48.368 48.368a6 6 0 0 1 1.757 4.243V112z"></path></svg></i></a></div><div class="custom-field-storytype">Yellow</div></div></div></div><script type="application/json" id="post-context-2669392157" class="post-context post-context-2669392157"> {"customDimensions": {"1":"Robinson Meyer","7":2669392157,"3":"biden, ali zaidi, inflation reduction act, permitting reform, china, climate policy","6":"climate policy","2":"podcast","4":"10/16/2024"}, "post": {"id": 2669392157, "providerId": 0, "sections": [0, 593738281, 593483924, 593483919], "authors": [25916995], "streams": [], "split_testing": {}} } </script></article></div></div></div></div><div class="author-article__container"><div class="author-block"><div class="avatar"><a href="https://heatmap.news/u/robinsonmeyer"><img src="https://heatmap.news/media-library/eyJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiIsInR5cCI6IkpXVCJ9.eyJpbWFnZSI6Imh0dHBzOi8vYXNzZXRzLnJibC5tcy8zMjk5MTA3MS9vcmlnaW4uanBnIiwiZXhwaXJlc19hdCI6MTczNDM3NjA5Nn0.s48GUr3_N5SNs1Zdcz7Mtf1582qAWPoh9v1YO97-hec/image.jpg?width=210" class="author-article__avatar" alt="Robinson Meyer profile image"/></a></div><div class="author-content"><p class="author-article___name"><a class="author-article___name" href="https://heatmap.news/u/robinsonmeyer">Robinson Meyer</a></p><a href="https://heatmap.news/u/robinsonmeyer"><p class="author-article__bio"> Robinson is the founding executive editor of Heatmap. 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setFreshCookie(value) { const date = new Date(); date.setTime(date.getTime() + (articleLimitExpires * 24 * 60 * 60 * 1000)); //30 days document.cookie = "articlesread="+value+"; path=/;expires="+date.toUTCString()+";"; } function setFreshPlusCookie(value) { const date = new Date(); date.setTime(date.getTime() + (articleLimitExpires * 24 * 60 * 60 * 1000)); //30 days document.cookie = "plusarticlesread="+value+"; path=/;expires="+date.toUTCString()+";"; } </script><div class="infeed-ad"></div><div class="related-links"></div><span class="js-brick-description hidden" data-name="Regwall CSS"></span><style> .regwall-container { justify-content: center; } .regwall-container:before { display: flex; justify-content: center; content:''; width:100%; height:49%; position:absolute; left:0; top:0; background:linear-gradient(transparent 244px, white); } .regwall { margin-top: 40px; width: 673px; height: 545px !important; } .regwall-form { display: none; flex-direction: column; align-items: center; } .regwall-fields { display: flex; justify-content: center; flex-wrap: wrap; position: absolute; width: 673px; } .regwall-title { display: flex; justify-content: center; height: 42px; font-family: var(--font-diatype-medium); font-size: 32px; font-weight: 700; } .regwall-subtitle { margin-top: 15px; width: 673px; height: 42px; text-align: center; font-family: var(--font-stanley); font-size: 19px; font-weight: 400; } .regwall-accounts { display:flex; flex-direction:column; width: 100%; } .regwall-accounts .provider-btn { height:54px; background:#FFFFFF; border:1px solid black; display:flex; align-items:center; padding-left: 20px; margin-bottom:10px; font-family: var(--font-diatype); font-size: 19px; font-weight: 400; color: black; } .provider-btn .google:before { background-image: url(data:image/svg+xml;base64,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); } .provider-btn .facebook:before { background-image: url("data:image/svg+xml;base64,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"); } .provider-btn .google, .provider-btn .facebook { display: flex; } .provider-btn div:before { content:""; display:block; background-repeat:no-repeat; background-size:contain; width:24px; height:24px; margin-right: 8px; } .regwall-seperator { display: flex; align-items: center; justify-content: space-between; width: 100%; } .regwall-seperator-line { height: 1px; width: 313px; background: black; } .regwall-seperator-text { font-family: var(--font-diatype); font-size: 19px; font-weight: 400; line-height: 25.19px; } .social-accounts { max-width: unset!important; /*width: 673px;*/ width: 100%; } .social-accounts div { width: 210px!important; font-size: 16px; } .regwall-form { width: 100%; } .regwall-input { width: 96.3%; height: 52px; padding-left: 20px; margin-top: 15px; font-family: var(--font-diatype); font-size: 19px; font-weight: 400; } #regwall-email::placeholder, #regwall-password::placeholder { font-family: var(--font-diatype); font-size: 19px; font-weight: 400; color: black; } .regwall-check-email { width: 100%; max-width: unset; align-items: center; } .regwall-error { display: none; justify-content: center; margin-top: 10px; font-family: var(--font-diatype); font-size: 14px; font-weight: 400; color: var(--accent-red); } .regwall-button-container { display: flex; align-items: center; width: 100%; margin-top: 15px; } .regwall-button { display: flex; justify-content: center; align-items: center; border-radius: 39px; border-width: 0px; background: #689F38; color: #FFF; font-family: var(--font-diatype); font-size: 24px; font-weight: 700; text-align: center; width: 160px; height: 52px; } .regwall-button:hover { color: white; cursor: grab; } .regwall-terms-container { display: flex; margin-top: 15px; width: 100%; font-family: var(--font-stanley); font-size: 14px; font-weight: 400; } .regwall-terms-checkbox { accent-color: black; } .regwall-terms-text { margin-left: 10px; } .regwall-terms-text a { color: black; text-decoration: underline; } .regwall-bottom-seperator { width: 100%; height: 1px; background: black; margin-top: 20px; } .regwall-subscription-text { display: flex; justify-content: center; margin-top: 20px; width: 100%; font-family: var(--font-diatype); font-size: 16px; font-weight: 700; } .regwall-subscription-text a { color: black; text-decoration: underline; } .regwall-bottom-squares { margin-top: 10px; width: 100%; height: 20px; } .regwall-form::before, .regwall-form::after { content: ''; position: absolute; width: 20px; height: 20px; background-color: var(--accent-green); } /* .regwall-fields:before, .regwall-fields:after, .regwall-bottom-squares:before, .regwall-bottom-squares:after { content: ''; position: absolute; width: 20px; height: 20px; background-color: var(--accent-green); } */ .regwall-form::before, .regwall-fields:before { top: 0; left: 0; } .regwall-form::after, .regwall-fields:after { top: 0; right: 0; } .regwall-bottom-squares { display: none; } .regwall-bottom-squares:before { bottom: 0; left: 0; } .regwall-bottom-squares:after { bottom: 0; right: 0; } .regwall-login-form[style*="display: block"] .regwall-form { display: block; } @media (max-width: 1024px) { .regwall { margin-left: 0px; } } @media (max-width: 768px) { .regwall-form::before, .regwall-form::after { width: 10px; height: 10px; } /* .regwall-fields:before, .regwall-fields:after, .regwall-bottom-squares:before, .regwall-bottom-squares:after { width: 10px; height: 10px; } */ .regwall-container:before { height: 50%; } .regwall { width: 100%; margin-right: 0px; } .regwall-fields { width: 90%; } .regwall-title { font-size: 28px; } .regwall-subtitle { width: 90%; } .regwall-input { width: 92.3%; } .regwall-accounts { margin-top: 35px; } .regwall-seperator-line { width: 44%; } .regwall-subscription-text { font-size: 12px; margin-bottom: 10px; } .share-panel { margin-top: 55px!important; } .paywall-subtitle { font-size: 18px!important; } #yearly-div, #monthly-div { flex-direction: row-reverse; } .regwall-signup-form .headline { font-size: 25px!important; } .regwall-login-form .authentication--goto { text-align: center; } } .regwall-login-form { display: flex; flex-direction: column; } .regwall-login-form, .regwall-signup-form { width: 100%; } .regwall-login-form .headline, .regwall-signup-form .headline { display: flex; justify-content: center; margin: 0; font-family: var(--font-diatype-medium); font-size: 32px; font-weight: 700; } .regwall-login-form .subheadline, .regwall-signup-form .subheadline { display: flex; justify-content: center; margin-top: 15px; font-family: var(--font-stanley); font-size: 19px; font-weight: 400; } .regwall-login-form .authentication--headline { display: none; } .regwall-signup-form .authentication--authorization-module { width: 100%; } .regwall-signup-form .authentication--field-email { width: 100%; } .regwall-signup-form .authentication--field-password { width: 100%; } .regwall-login-form input[type="email"], .regwall-login-form input[type="password"], .regwall-signup-form input[type="email"], .regwall-signup-form input[type="password"] { width: 100%; height: 52px; padding-left: 0px; padding-right: 0px; text-indent: 20px; margin-top: 15px; font-family: var(--font-diatype); font-size: 19px; font-weight: 400; background-color: white; border-width: 1px; } .regwall-login-form .login-form, .regwall-signup-form .authentication--form { max-width: unset; } .regwall-login-form .login-module:has(.authentication--submit), .regwall-signup-form .login-module:has(.authentication--submit) { align-items: center; } .regwall-login-form .authentication--submit, .regwall-signup-form .authentication--submit { display: flex; justify-content: center; align-items: center; margin-top: 15px; border-radius: 39px; border-width: 0px; background: #689F38; color: #FFF; font-family: var(--font-diatype); font-size: 24px; font-weight: 700; text-align: center; width: 160px; height: 52px; } .regwall-login-form .login-form { margin-top: 15px; } .regwall-login-form .authentication--goto { margin-top: 8px; } .regwall-login-form .login-module { margin: unset; } .regwall-login-form .authentication--field-email, .regwall-login-form .authentication--field-password { width: 100%; } .regwall-signup-form .authentication--submit { margin-top: 0px; } .regwall-signup-form .authentication--submit-module { align-items: center; } .regwall-login-form .authentication--message:last-child, .regwall-login-form .forgot-pass { display: none; } .regwall-login-form .reset-module { align-items: center; } .regwall-login-form .reset-form { max-width: unset; } .regwall-login-form .reset-form .authentication--submit { width: 244px; } .regwall-login-form .reset-form .authentication--label { width: 100%; } .regwall-login-form, .regwall-signup-form { display: none; } /* ------------------------ PAYWALL ------------------------ */ .paywall-form { display: none; width: 100%; flex-direction: column; align-items: center; } .paywall-title { font-family: var(--font-diatype); font-size: 24px; font-weight: 700; } .paywall-subtitle { margin-top: 12px; padding-left: 40px; padding-right: 40px; font-family: var(--font-stanley); font-size: 19px; font-weight: 400; text-align: center; } .paywall-offer-subscription { margin-top: 20px; width: 180px; padding:11px 0; font-family:var(--font-diatype); font-weight:700; font-size:24px; text-align:center; border-radius:39px; background-color:var(--accent-green); color:#FFF; } .paywall-subs-offer { display: flex; align-items: center; flex-direction: column!important; margin-top: 44px; } .paywall-cancel-text { margin-top: 13px; font-family: var(--font-diatype); font-size: 14px; font-weight: 400; } .paywall-login-link { margin-top: 5px; font-family: var(--font-diatype); font-size: 12px; font-style: italic; font-weight: 400; cursor: grab; } .paywall-login-link span { text-decoration: underline; } .paywall-legal-text { width: 90%; margin-top: 25px; font-family: var(--font-diatype); font-size: 10px; font-style: italic; font-weight: 400; line-height: 13.26px; text-align: center; } .main-site-subscription .paywall-subs-offer { flex-direction: column; margin-top: 0px; padding: 0 20px; max-width: 340px; width: 100%; margin: auto; } .only-mobile { margin: 0px!important; } .hmnoffer.monthly.is-selected { outline: 6px solid #000; position: relative; } .hmnoffer.annual.is-selected { outline: 6px solid #000; position: relative; } .hmnoffer + .hmnoffer { margin-top: 25px; } .hmnoffer { padding: 70px 0px 50px 20px; box-shadow: 0 6px 13px rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.13); border-radius: 0px; box-sizing: border-box; background-color: #FFF; } .monthly-auto-renew, .annual-auto-renew { color: #000; text-align: center; font-family: var(--font-diatype); font-size: 14px; font-style: italic; font-weight: 400; line-height: normal; display: block; /*margin-left: 59px;*/ } /*.annual-auto-renew { margin-left: 26px; }*/ .total-discounted, .free-month-offer { color: #000; text-align: center; font-family: var(--font-diatype); font-size: 24px; font-style: normal; font-weight: 700; line-height: normal; } #freemonth, #annually { width: 25px; height: 25px; accent-color: #000000; } .become-member { padding-bottom: 0px !important; } .laptop-device { text-align: center; margin: 30px 0px; } .input-class { display: flex; justify-content: center; align-items: flex-start; gap: 25px; } #yearly-div, #monthly-div { display: flex; flex-flow: column nowrap; justify-content: space-between; align-items: stretch; padding: 0 !important; } .yearly-plan, .monthly-plan { padding: 5px 0; font-size: 1.8rem; font-style: italic; text-align: center; } .yearly-plan { background-color: #689F38; color: #ffffff; font-weight: 700; } .monthly-plan { background-color: #E1E1E1; } .input-class { display: flex; flex-grow: 1; justify-content: center; align-items: center; gap: 25px; padding: 10px; } #total-yearly { color: #808080; font-size: 0.8em; font-style: italic; padding-left: 0.4em; position: relative; bottom: 2px; text-decoration-line: line-through; } .labels-class { width: 244px; display: flex; flex-direction: column; justify-content: center; align-items: flex-start; } .mobile-img { max-width: 360px; margin: auto; } @media (min-width: 768px) { .more-story-info { padding: 60px 100px; } .main-wrapper-ele { padding: 60px 100px 1px !important; } .main-site-subscription .paywall-subs-offer { max-width: 1220px !important; } .hmnoffer.annual, .hmnoffer.monthly { height: 120px; width: 480px; } .hmnoffer { padding: 55px 95px 40px !important; } .main-site-subscription .paywall-subs-offer { /*flex-wrap: wrap-reverse !important;*/ } } </style><div id="hmn_sponsored_post" style="min-width: 390px; min-height: 475px;text-align: center; display: none;"></div><div class="infinite-scroll-container" id="sPost_Default_0_0_17_0_0_4_2_0"><div class="mb-2 infinite-scroll-posts infinite-scroll-posts--pro" id="sPost_Default_0_0_17_0_0_4_2_0_0"><div class="posts-custom posts-custom-section section-holder clearfix" data-block="section_1" data-format="posts-custom" data-source="infinity-post" data-source-type="page" data-source-unique="true" data-section-id="" data-is-reordable="false" data-using-stickers="false" data-has-more="true" data-attr-v="2" data-attr-posts_id="sPost_Default_0_0_17_0_0_4_2_0_0" data-attr-source_unique="true" data-attr-without_current="true" data-attr-layout_quality="1" data-attr-header_template="jinja/post/custom-css.html" data-attr-node_id="/root/blocks/block[post_default]/abtests/abtest[1]/choose[2]/otherwise/element_wrapper/posts-" data-attr-source="filtered" data-attr-use_tag_image_for_lead_media="true" data-attr-limit="1" 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data-attr-layout_source_link="bottom" data-attr-source_id="infinity-post" data-attr-layout_snark_line="top" data-attr-layout_custom_field_storytype="bottom" data-attr-layout_photo_caption="bottom" data-attr-layout_photo_credit="bottom" data-attr-from_regular_sections_other_than="sponsored-post,static,newsletter/preview" data-attr-from_primary_sections="{{ subpage.url }}" data-attr-format="posts-custom" data-attr-source_site="parent_site"><div class="posts-wrapper clearfix"><div class="widget tag-ioniq-6 tag-ev9 tag-id-buzz tag-wagoneer-s tag-recon tag-jeep tag-volkswagen tag-kia tag-hyundai tag-los-angeles-auto-show tag-equinox tag-blazer tag-chevrolet tag-ford tag-stellantis tag-dodge tag-charger-daytona tag-inflation-reduction-act-tax-credits tag-30d tag-electric-vehicle-tax-credit tag-wrangler tag-tesla tag-elon-musk tag-ioniq-9 post-section--electric-vehicles" elid="2669974672" data-category="Electric Vehicles"><article elid="2669974672" data-frozen-sections="[]" class="clearfix image-article sm-mb-1 quality-HD post-2669974672"><div class="row px10"><div class="rm-col-center col sm-mb-1" style="width:100.0%;"><div class="widget__body clearfix sm-mt-1"><a class="widget__section js-load-brick-on-click" href="https://heatmap.news/electric-vehicles">Electric Vehicles</a><h2 class="widget__headline h2"><a class="widget__headline-text custom-post-headline" href="https://heatmap.news/electric-vehicles/hyundai-ioniq-9-boring" aria-label="The New Electric Cars Are Boring, and That’s Okay" data-type="text"> The New Electric Cars Are Boring </a></h2><div class="widget__subheadline"><h2 class="widget__subheadline-text h2" data-type="text"><p>Give the people what they want — big, family-friendly EVs.</p></h2></div><div class="snark-line"><div class="post-credentials"><div class="profile-inner"><a href="https://heatmap.news/u/andrew-moseman"><img class="social-author__avatar" src="https://heatmap.news/media-library/eyJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiIsInR5cCI6IkpXVCJ9.eyJpbWFnZSI6Imh0dHBzOi8vYXNzZXRzLnJibC5tcy8zMzMyMjYzOS9vcmlnaW4uanBnIiwiZXhwaXJlc19hdCI6MTc2NjA4NjE0Nn0.W8CSv40Inhx9AE_ZjNGy8qV_nEy3S0WxKsuV2QJsmoM/image.jpg?width=210" alt="Andrew Moseman"/></a><div class="inner"><a class="post-author" href="https://heatmap.news/u/andrew-moseman">Andrew Moseman</a></div><div class="post-date">11/26/2024 </div></div></div></div></div><div class="widget__head"><a href="https://heatmap.news/electric-vehicles/hyundai-ioniq-9-boring" aria-label="The New Electric Cars Are Boring, and That’s Okay"><img role="img" type="lazy-image" alt="Boredom and EVs." aria-label="Boredom and EVs." src="data:image/svg+xml,%3Csvg xmlns='http://www.w3.org/2000/svg' viewBox='0 0 1245 700'%3E%3C/svg%3E" data-runner-src="https://heatmap.news/media-library/eyJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiIsInR5cCI6IkpXVCJ9.eyJpbWFnZSI6Imh0dHBzOi8vYXNzZXRzLnJibC5tcy81NDk2ODk5Ny9vcmlnaW4uanBnIiwiZXhwaXJlc19hdCI6MTc4NTgyMDI3NX0.lhrah1-mXi29l-DVLD6yvoVmxTC5T5o5piqtVAeigLk/image.jpg?width=1245&height=700&quality=80&coordinates=0%2C62%2C0%2C63" style="object-fit: cover;" class="rm-lazyloadable-image" width="1245" height="700"/></a></div><div class="widget__body clearfix sm-mt-1"><div class="photo-credit"> Heatmap Illustration/Getty Images, Apple </div><div class="body js-expandable clearfix js-listicle-body css-listicle-body-2669974672" data-headline="The New Electric Cars Are Boring, and That’s Okay"><div class="body-description"><div class="widget__brief"><p class="drop-caps">The star of this year’s Los Angeles Auto Show was the Hyundai Ioniq 9, a rounded-off colossus of an EV that puts Hyundai’s signature EV styling on a three-row SUV cavernous enough to carry seven.</p><p>I was reminded of two years ago, when Hyundai stole the L.A. show with a different EV: The reveal of Ioniq 6, its “streamliner” aerodynamic sedan that looked like nothing else on the market. By comparison, Ioniq 9 is a little more banal. It’s a crucial vehicle that will occupy the large end of Hyundai's excellent and growing lineup of electric cars, and one that may sell in impressive numbers to large families that want to go electric. Even with all the sleek touches, though, it’s not quite <a href="https://heatmap.news/the-most-interesting-evs-are-the-weird-ones" target="_self"><u><em><em>interesting</em></em></u></a>. But it is big, and at this moment in electric vehicles, big is what’s in.</p></div><div class="content-container"></div><div class="js-appear-on-expand"><template><p>The L.A. show is one the major events on the yearly circuit of car shows, where the car companies traditionally reveal new models for the media and show off their whole lineups of vehicles for the public. Given that California is the EV capital of America, carmakers like to talk up their electric models here. </p><p>Hyundai’s brand partner, Kia, debuted a GT performance version of its EV9, adding more horsepower and flashy racing touches to a giant family SUV. Jeep reminded everyone of its upcoming forays into full-size and premium electric SUVs in the form of the Recon and the Wagoneer S. VW trumpeted the ID.Buzz, the long-promised electrified take on the classic VW Microbus that has finally gone on sale in America. The VW is the quirkiest of the lot, but it’s a design we’ve known about since 2017, when the concept version was revealed. </p><p><div class="middle_leaderboard"></div></p><p>Boring isn’t the worst thing in the world. It can be a sign of a maturing industry. At auto shows of old, long before this current EV revolution, car companies would bring exotic, sci-fi concept cars to dial up the intrigue compared to the bread-and-butter, conservatively styled vehicles that actually made them gobs of money. During the early EV years, electrics were the shiny thing to show off at the car show. Now, something of the old dynamic has come to the electric sector. </p><p>Acura and Chrysler brought wild concepts to Los Angeles that were meant to signify the direction of their EVs to come. But most of the EVs in production looked far more familiar. Beyond the new hulking models from Hyundai and Kia, much of what’s on offer includes long-standing models, but in EV (Chevy Equinox and Blazer) or plug-in hybrid (Jeep Grand Cherokee and Wrangler) configurations. One of the most “interesting” EVs on the show floor was the Cybertruck, which sat quietly in a barely-staffed display of Tesla vehicles. (Elon Musk reveals his projects at separate Tesla events, a strategy <a href="https://heatmap.news/electric-vehicles/rivian-suv-r2-r3-r3x" target="_self"><u>more carmakers</u></a> have begun to steal as a way to avoid sharing the spotlight at a car show.)</p><p>The other reason boring isn’t bad: It’s what the people want. The majority of drivers don’t buy an exotic, fun vehicle. They buy a handsome, spacious car they can afford. That last part, of course, is where the problem kicks in.</p><p><div class="middle_leaderboard"></div></p><p>We don’t yet know the price of the <a href="https://cleantechnica.com/2024/11/20/hyundai-ioniq-9-looks-awesome-but-nothing-like-concept-interior/" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank"><u>Ioniq 9</u></a>, but it’s likely to be in the neighborhood of Kia’s three-row electric, the EV9, which starts in the mid-$50,000s and can rise steeply from there. Stellantis’ forthcoming push into the EV market will start with not only pricey premium Jeep SUVs, but also some fun, though relatively expensive, vehicles like the heralded Ramcharger extended-range EV truck and the <a href="https://www.carscoops.com/2024/11/the-dodge-charger-daytona-is-already-the-ev-to-beat-when-it-comes-to-resale-values/" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank"><u>Dodge Charger Daytona</u></a>, an attempt to apply machismo-oozing, alpha-male muscle-car marketing to an electric vehicle.</p><p>You can see the rationale. It costs a lot to build a battery big enough to power a big EV, so they’re going to be priced higher. Helpfully for the car brands, Americans have proven they will pay a premium for size and power. That’s not to say we’re entering an era of nothing but bloated EV battleships. Models such as the overpowered electric Dodge Charger and Kia EV9 GT will reveal the appetite for performance EVs. Smaller models like the revived Chevy Bolt and Kia’s EV3, already on sale overseas, are coming to America, tax credit or not.</p><p>The question for the legacy car companies is where to go from here. It takes years to bring a vehicle from idea to production, so the models on offer today were conceived in a time when big federal support for EVs was in place to buoy the industry through its transition. Now, though, the automakers have some clear uncertainty about what to say. </p><p>Chevy, having revealed new electrics like the Equinox EV elsewhere, did not hold a media conference at the L.A. show. Ford, which is having a hellacious time losing money on its EVs, used its time to talk up combustion vehicles including a new version of the palatial Expedition, one of the oversized gas-guzzlers that defined the first SUV craze of the 1990s.</p><p>If it’s true that the death of federal subsidies will send EV sales into a <a href="https://www.nytimes.com/2024/11/25/business/trump-electric-vehicle-tax-credit.html" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank"><u>slump</u></a>, we may see messaging from Detroit and elsewhere that feels decidedly retro, with very profitable combustion front-and-center and the all-electric future suddenly less of a talking point. Whatever happens at the federal level, EVs aren’t going away. But as they become a core part of the car business, they are going to get less exciting.</p><p><div class="middle_leaderboard"></div></p></template></div><div class="widget__show-more with-primary-color js-keep-reading js-page-view-and-reload-embeds"><span class="show-more js-expand">Keep reading...</span><span class="show-less js-contract">Show less</span></div></div></div><span class="" data-elid="2669974672" data-post-url="https://heatmap.news/electric-vehicles/hyundai-ioniq-9-boring" data-authors="Andrew Moseman" data-headline="The New Electric Cars Are Boring, and That’s Okay" data-page-title="The New Electric Cars Are Boring, and That’s Okay - Heatmap News"></span><div class="custom-field-storytype">Green</div></div></div></div><script type="application/json" id="post-context-2669974672" class="post-context post-context-2669974672"> {"customDimensions": {"1":"Andrew Moseman","7":2669974672,"3":"ioniq 6, ev9, id.buzz, wagoneer s, recon, jeep, volkswagen, kia, hyundai, los angeles 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data-attr-layout_section="top" data-attr-layout_headline="top" data-attr-layout_subheadline="top" data-attr-layout_body="bottom" data-attr-layout_all_image_crop="16x9" data-attr-layout_all_headline_tag="h2" data-attr-layout_all_date_format="%B %d, %Y" data-attr-data-rm-advanced="true" data-attr-use_smart_keep_reading="true" data-attr-layout_source_link="bottom" data-attr-source_id="infinity-post" data-attr-layout_snark_line="top" data-attr-layout_custom_field_storytype="bottom" data-attr-layout_photo_caption="bottom" data-attr-layout_photo_credit="bottom" data-attr-from_regular_sections_other_than="sponsored-post,static,newsletter/preview" data-attr-from_primary_sections="{{ subpage.url }}" data-attr-format="posts-custom" data-attr-source_site="parent_site"><div class="posts-wrapper clearfix"><div class="widget post-section--climate" elid="2670004175" data-category="Climate"><article elid="2670004175" data-frozen-sections="[]" class="clearfix image-article sm-mb-1 quality-HD post-2670004175"><div class="row px10"><div class="rm-col-center col sm-mb-1" style="width:100.0%;"><div class="widget__body clearfix sm-mt-1"><a class="widget__section js-load-brick-on-click" href="https://heatmap.news/climate">Climate</a><h2 class="widget__headline h2"><a class="widget__headline-text custom-post-headline" href="https://heatmap.news/climate/hurricanes-2024-costs-billions" aria-label="The Huge Economic Toll of the 2024 Hurricane Season" data-type="text"> AM Briefing: Hurricane Season Winds Down </a></h2><div class="widget__subheadline"><h2 class="widget__subheadline-text h2" data-type="text"><p>On storm damages, EV tax credits, and Black Friday</p></h2></div><div class="snark-line"><div class="post-credentials"><div class="profile-inner"><a href="https://heatmap.news/u/jessicahullinger"><img class="social-author__avatar" src="https://heatmap.news/media-library/eyJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiIsInR5cCI6IkpXVCJ9.eyJpbWFnZSI6Imh0dHBzOi8vYXNzZXRzLnJibC5tcy80OTQ4NDE0Ni9vcmlnaW4uanBnIiwiZXhwaXJlc19hdCI6MTc2NzM5MDkwNn0.BkpChhURvAmS1Mpwo4-B1x6by7OdaRAqj2ku_SPdWI4/image.jpg?width=210" alt="Jessica Hullinger"/></a><div class="inner"><a class="post-author" href="https://heatmap.news/u/jessicahullinger">Jessica Hullinger</a></div><div class="post-date">11/26/2024 </div></div></div></div></div><div class="widget__head"><a href="https://heatmap.news/climate/hurricanes-2024-costs-billions" aria-label="The Huge Economic Toll of the 2024 Hurricane Season"><img role="img" type="lazy-image" alt="The Huge Economic Toll of the 2024 Hurricane Season" aria-label="The Huge Economic Toll of the 2024 Hurricane Season" src="data:image/svg+xml,%3Csvg xmlns='http://www.w3.org/2000/svg' viewBox='0 0 1245 700'%3E%3C/svg%3E" data-runner-src="https://heatmap.news/media-library/eyJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiIsInR5cCI6IkpXVCJ9.eyJpbWFnZSI6Imh0dHBzOi8vYXNzZXRzLnJibC5tcy81NDk4Mjg2MC9vcmlnaW4uanBnIiwiZXhwaXJlc19hdCI6MTczNjk2NDg2Nn0.aADtAfbc7-WcjvwuxQAu50Qc71Eft_xrpRyI-AeRQ2I/image.jpg?width=1245&height=700&quality=80&coordinates=0%2C62%2C0%2C63" style="object-fit: cover;" class="rm-lazyloadable-image" width="1245" height="700"/></a></div><div class="widget__body clearfix sm-mt-1"><div class="photo-credit"> Heatmap Illustration/Getty Images </div><div class="body js-expandable clearfix js-listicle-body css-listicle-body-2670004175" data-headline="The Huge Economic Toll of the 2024 Hurricane Season"><div class="body-description"><div class="widget__brief"><p><em><strong>Current conditions: </strong>Parts of southwest France that were freezing last week are now experiencing record high temperatures • Forecasters are monitoring a storm system that could become Australia’s first named tropical cyclone of this season • The Colorado Rockies could get several feet of snow today and tomorrow.</em></p><h2>THE TOP FIVE</h2><h3>1. Damages from 2024 hurricane season estimated at $500 billion</h3><p>This year’s Atlantic hurricane season caused an estimated $500 billion in damage and economic losses, <a href="https://www.accuweather.com/en/press/exclusive-report-500-billion-in-damage-and-economic-loss-estimated-after-destructive-and-unprecedented-hurricane-season/1717667?utm_campaign=heatmap_am&utm_source=hs_email&utm_medium=email&_hsenc=p2ANqtz-8BigVNV4NNq_IBGaxEnQFM2c8ZC4p3_eQCirlOktkmTzxqZZtxgfRUYZOlHuUoA0FoSLfj" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">according to</a> AccuWeather. “For perspective, this would equate to nearly 2% of the nation’s gross domestic product,” said AccuWeather Chief Meteorologist Jon Porter. The figure accounts for long-term economic impacts including job losses, medical costs, drops in tourism, and recovery expenses. “The combination of extremely warm water temperatures, a shift toward a La Niña pattern and favorable conditions for development created the perfect storm for what AccuWeather experts called ‘a supercharged hurricane season,’” said AccuWeather lead hurricane expert Alex DaSilva. “This was an exceptionally powerful and destructive year for hurricanes in America, despite an unusual and historic lull during the climatological peak of the season.”</p></div><div class="content-container"></div><div class="js-appear-on-expand"><template><p class="shortcode-media shortcode-media-rebelmouse-image"><img id="c0723" data-rm-shortcode-id="2e3440d27f695dfecfa4f62d828c5c07" data-rm-shortcode-name="rebelmouse-image" class="rm-shortcode rm-lazyloadable-image " lazy-loadable="true" src="data:image/svg+xml,%3Csvg%20xmlns='http://www.w3.org/2000/svg'%20viewBox='0%200%20809%20458'%3E%3C/svg%3E" data-runner-src="https://heatmap.news/media-library/eyJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiIsInR5cCI6IkpXVCJ9.eyJpbWFnZSI6Imh0dHBzOi8vYXNzZXRzLnJibC5tcy81NDk4Mjg2MS9vcmlnaW4ucG5nIiwiZXhwaXJlc19hdCI6MTc4OTQxNjQ2OH0.42ZnhQimIcxsHr9gbsrKTuvu5YaIc30ONUGN03pOvDo/image.png?width=980" width="809" height="458" alt=""/><small class="image-media media-photo-credit" placeholder="Add Photo Credit...">AccuWeather</small></p><p>This year’s hurricane season produced 18 named storms and 11 hurricanes. Five hurricanes made landfall, two of which were major storms. According to <a href="https://www.noaa.gov/news-release/atlantic-hurricane-season-races-to-finish-within-range-of-predicted-number-of-named-storms?utm_campaign=heatmap_am&utm_source=hs_email&utm_medium=email&_hsenc=p2ANqtz-8BigVNV4NNq_IBGaxEnQFM2c8ZC4p3_eQCirlOktkmTzxqZZtxgfRUYZOlHuUoA0FoSLfj" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">NOAA</a>, an “average” season produces 14 named storms, seven hurricanes, and three major hurricanes. The season comes to an end on November 30.</p><p><div class="middle_leaderboard"></div></p><h3>2. Newsom says California might restart EV rebate program if Trump axes federal tax credit</h3><p>California Gov. Gavin Newsom <a href="https://www.gov.ca.gov/2024/11/25/as-california-achieves-historic-milestone-governor-newsom-commits-to-restarting-states-zev-rebate-program-if-federal-tax-credit-is-eliminated/?utm_campaign=heatmap_am&utm_source=hs_email&utm_medium=email&_hsenc=p2ANqtz-8BigVNV4NNq_IBGaxEnQFM2c8ZC4p3_eQCirlOktkmTzxqZZtxgfRUYZOlHuUoA0FoSLfj" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">announced</a> yesterday that if President-elect Donald Trump scraps the $7,500 EV tax credit, California will consider reviving its Clean Vehicle Rebate Program. The CVRP ran from 2010 to 2023 and helped fund nearly 600,000 EV purchases by offering rebates that started at $5,000 and increased to $7,500. But the program as it is now would exclude Tesla’s vehicles, because it is aimed at encouraging market competition, and Tesla already has a large share of the California market. Tesla CEO Elon Musk, who has cozied up to Trump, <a href="https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2024-11-25/california-pledges-ev-buyer-rebate-if-trump-kills-7-500-credit?utm_campaign=heatmap_am&utm_source=hs_email&utm_medium=email&_hsenc=p2ANqtz-8BigVNV4NNq_IBGaxEnQFM2c8ZC4p3_eQCirlOktkmTzxqZZtxgfRUYZOlHuUoA0FoSLfj" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">called</a> California’s potential exclusion of Tesla “insane,” though he has said he’s okay with Trump nixing the federal subsidies. Newsom would need to go through the State Legislature to revive the program.</p><h3>3. Trump threatens China, Canada, Mexico with tariff hikes</h3><p>President-elect Donald Trump said yesterday he would impose steep <a href="https://www.nytimes.com/2024/11/25/business/economy/trump-tariffs-canada-mexico-china.html?utm_campaign=heatmap_am&utm_source=hs_email&utm_medium=email&_hsenc=p2ANqtz-8BigVNV4NNq_IBGaxEnQFM2c8ZC4p3_eQCirlOktkmTzxqZZtxgfRUYZOlHuUoA0FoSLfj" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">new tariffs</a> on all goods imported from China, Canada, and Mexico on day one of his presidency in a bid to stop “drugs” and “illegal aliens” from entering the United States. Specifically, Trump threatened Canada and Mexico each with a 25% tariff, and China with a 10% hike on existing levies. Such moves against three key U.S. trade partners would have major ramifications across many sectors, including the auto industry. Many car companies <a href="https://www.reuters.com/business/companies-that-might-be-affected-by-trumps-promised-tariffs-2024-11-26/?utm_campaign=heatmap_am&utm_source=hs_email&utm_medium=email&_hsenc=p2ANqtz-8BigVNV4NNq_IBGaxEnQFM2c8ZC4p3_eQCirlOktkmTzxqZZtxgfRUYZOlHuUoA0FoSLfj" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">import vehicles and parts</a> from plants in Mexico. The Canadian government responded with a statement reminding everyone that “Canada is essential to U.S. domestic energy supply, and last year <a href="https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=62664&utm_campaign=heatmap_am&utm_source=hs_email&utm_medium=email&_hsenc=p2ANqtz-8BigVNV4NNq_IBGaxEnQFM2c8ZC4p3_eQCirlOktkmTzxqZZtxgfRUYZOlHuUoA0FoSLfj#:~:text=In%202023%2C%2060%25%20of%20U.S.,year%20from%202013%20to%202023." rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">60% of U.S. crude oil imports</a> originated in Canada.” Tariffs would be paid by U.S. companies buying the imported goods, and those costs would likely trickle down to consumers.</p><h3>4. Amazon workers to strike over busy Black Friday weekend</h3><p>Amazon workers across the world plan to begin <a href="https://www.theguardian.com/business/2024/nov/25/amazon-protest-strike-black-friday?CMP=bsky_gu&utm_campaign=heatmap_am&utm_source=hs_email&utm_medium=email&_hsenc=p2ANqtz-8BigVNV4NNq_IBGaxEnQFM2c8ZC4p3_eQCirlOktkmTzxqZZtxgfRUYZOlHuUoA0FoSLfj" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">striking and protesting</a> on Black Friday “to <a href="https://thecorbynproject.com/events/make-amazon-pay/?utm_campaign=heatmap_am&utm_source=hs_email&utm_medium=email&_hsenc=p2ANqtz-8BigVNV4NNq_IBGaxEnQFM2c8ZC4p3_eQCirlOktkmTzxqZZtxgfRUYZOlHuUoA0FoSLfj" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">demand</a> justice, fairness, and accountability” from the online retail giant. The protests are organized by the <a href="https://uniglobalunion.org/news/map24/?utm_campaign=heatmap_am&utm_source=hs_email&utm_medium=email&_hsenc=p2ANqtz-8BigVNV4NNq_IBGaxEnQFM2c8ZC4p3_eQCirlOktkmTzxqZZtxgfRUYZOlHuUoA0FoSLfj" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">UNI Global Union’s Make Amazon Pay Campaign</a>, which calls for better working conditions for employees and a commitment to “real environmental sustainability.” Workers in more than 20 countries including the U.S. are expected to join the protests, which will continue through Cyber Monday. Amazon’s carbon emissions last year <a href="https://www.reuters.com/business/environment/amazons-total-emissions-fell-2023-it-meets-renewable-power-goal-2024-07-10/?utm_campaign=heatmap_am&utm_source=hs_email&utm_medium=email&_hsenc=p2ANqtz-8BigVNV4NNq_IBGaxEnQFM2c8ZC4p3_eQCirlOktkmTzxqZZtxgfRUYZOlHuUoA0FoSLfj" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">totalled</a> 68.8 million metric tons. That’s about 3% below 2022 levels, but more than 30% <a href="https://www.seattletimes.com/business/amazon/5-years-into-amazons-climate-pledge-workers-challenge-its-progress/?utm_campaign=heatmap_am&utm_source=hs_email&utm_medium=email&_hsenc=p2ANqtz-8BigVNV4NNq_IBGaxEnQFM2c8ZC4p3_eQCirlOktkmTzxqZZtxgfRUYZOlHuUoA0FoSLfj" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">above</a> 2019 levels.</p><p><div class="middle_leaderboard"></div></p><h3>5. New AI tool shows what an area would look like if flooded</h3><p>Researchers from MIT have <a href="https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/document/10758300?utm_campaign=heatmap_am&utm_source=hs_email&utm_medium=email&_hsenc=p2ANqtz-8BigVNV4NNq_IBGaxEnQFM2c8ZC4p3_eQCirlOktkmTzxqZZtxgfRUYZOlHuUoA0FoSLfj" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">developed</a> an AI tool called the “<a href="https://climate-viz.github.io/?utm_campaign=heatmap_am&utm_source=hs_email&utm_medium=email&_hsenc=p2ANqtz-8BigVNV4NNq_IBGaxEnQFM2c8ZC4p3_eQCirlOktkmTzxqZZtxgfRUYZOlHuUoA0FoSLfj" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Earth Intelligence Engine</a>” that can simulate realistic satellite images to show people what an area would look like if flooded by extreme weather. “Visualizing the potential impacts of a hurricane on people’s homes before it hits can help residents prepare and decide whether to evacuate,” <a href="https://news.mit.edu/2024/new-ai-tool-generates-realistic-satellite-images-future-flooding-1125?utm_campaign=heatmap_am&utm_source=hs_email&utm_medium=email&_hsenc=p2ANqtz-8BigVNV4NNq_IBGaxEnQFM2c8ZC4p3_eQCirlOktkmTzxqZZtxgfRUYZOlHuUoA0FoSLfj" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">wrote</a> Jennifer Chu at <em><em>MIT News</em></em>. The team found that AI alone tended to “hallucinate,” generating images of flooding in areas that aren’t actually susceptible to a deluge. But when combined with a science-backed flood model, the tool became more accurate. “One of the biggest challenges is encouraging people to evacuate when they are at risk,” said MIT’s Björn Lütjens, who led the research. “Maybe this could be another visualization to help increase that readiness.” The tool is still in development and is <a href="https://climate-viz.github.io/?utm_campaign=heatmap_am&utm_source=hs_email&utm_medium=email&_hsenc=p2ANqtz-8BigVNV4NNq_IBGaxEnQFM2c8ZC4p3_eQCirlOktkmTzxqZZtxgfRUYZOlHuUoA0FoSLfj" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">available</a> online. Here is an image it generated of flooding in Texas:</p><p class="shortcode-media shortcode-media-rebelmouse-image"><img id="eff09" data-rm-shortcode-id="f65d56ba2fb377ce851ae0111a437fd2" data-rm-shortcode-name="rebelmouse-image" class="rm-shortcode rm-lazyloadable-image " lazy-loadable="true" src="data:image/svg+xml,%3Csvg%20xmlns='http://www.w3.org/2000/svg'%20viewBox='0%200%20745%20496'%3E%3C/svg%3E" data-runner-src="https://heatmap.news/media-library/eyJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiIsInR5cCI6IkpXVCJ9.eyJpbWFnZSI6Imh0dHBzOi8vYXNzZXRzLnJibC5tcy81NDk4Mjg2My9vcmlnaW4ucG5nIiwiZXhwaXJlc19hdCI6MTc1MDY3NjEwN30.rvsPQAiBMcpxrUG6PlKYL7cWhHCVhrqKl7KjLkVyfm4/image.png?width=980" width="745" height="496" alt=""/><small class="image-media media-photo-credit" placeholder="Add Photo Credit...">Maxar Open Data Program via Gupta et al., CVPR Workshop Proceedings. Lütjens et al., IEEE TGRS</small></p><h2>THE KICKER</h2><p>A new <a href="https://www.ircam.fr/agenda/nature-manifesto/detail?utm_campaign=heatmap_am&utm_source=hs_email&utm_medium=email&_hsenc=p2ANqtz-8BigVNV4NNq_IBGaxEnQFM2c8ZC4p3_eQCirlOktkmTzxqZZtxgfRUYZOlHuUoA0FoSLfj" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">installation</a> at the Centre Pompidou in Paris lets visitors listen to the sounds of endangered and extinct animals – along with the voice of the artist behind the piece, the one and only Björk. </p></template></div><div class="widget__show-more with-primary-color js-keep-reading js-page-view-and-reload-embeds"><span class="show-more js-expand">Keep reading...</span><span class="show-less js-contract">Show less</span></div></div></div><span class="" data-elid="2670004175" data-post-url="https://heatmap.news/climate/hurricanes-2024-costs-billions" data-authors="Jessica Hullinger" data-headline="The Huge Economic Toll of the 2024 Hurricane Season" data-page-title="The Huge Economic Toll of the 2024 Hurricane Season - 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Then Comes the Fire." data-type="text"> First Comes the Hurricane. Then Comes the Fire. </a></h2><div class="widget__subheadline"><h2 class="widget__subheadline-text h2" data-type="text"><p>How Hurricane Helene is still putting the Southeast at risk.</p></h2></div><div class="snark-line"><div class="post-credentials"><div class="profile-inner"><a href="https://heatmap.news/u/colleen-hagerty"><img class="social-author__avatar" src="https://heatmap.news/media-library/eyJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiIsInR5cCI6IkpXVCJ9.eyJpbWFnZSI6Imh0dHBzOi8vYXNzZXRzLnJibC5tcy8zNDMyNjQ3Ny9vcmlnaW4uanBnIiwiZXhwaXJlc19hdCI6MTc3NTg4OTk1Mn0.rpHP4B70uIR9gF7To_PxVyTKyKCUvUzQqtXYeven88o/image.jpg?width=210" alt="Colleen Hagerty"/></a><div class="inner"><a class="post-author" href="https://heatmap.news/u/colleen-hagerty">Colleen Hagerty</a></div><div class="post-date">11/25/2024 </div></div></div></div></div><div class="widget__head"><a href="https://heatmap.news/climate/hurricanes-and-wildfires" aria-label="First Comes the Hurricane. Then Comes the Fire."><img role="img" type="lazy-image" alt="Hurricanes and wildfire." aria-label="Hurricanes and wildfire." src="data:image/svg+xml,%3Csvg xmlns='http://www.w3.org/2000/svg' viewBox='0 0 1245 700'%3E%3C/svg%3E" data-runner-src="https://heatmap.news/media-library/eyJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiIsInR5cCI6IkpXVCJ9.eyJpbWFnZSI6Imh0dHBzOi8vYXNzZXRzLnJibC5tcy81NDc1MDg2OS9vcmlnaW4uanBnIiwiZXhwaXJlc19hdCI6MTc3MDA0MzM0MX0.4f4DorU6Z4Rhzgxi9NBfkT4unlAQ7aOVCbtjqikkfPE/image.jpg?width=1245&height=700&quality=80&coordinates=0%2C62%2C0%2C63" style="object-fit: cover;" class="rm-lazyloadable-image" width="1245" height="700"/></a></div><div class="widget__body clearfix sm-mt-1"><div class="photo-credit"> Heatmap Illustration/Getty Images </div><div class="body js-expandable clearfix js-listicle-body css-listicle-body-2669950964" data-headline="First Comes the Hurricane. Then Comes the Fire."><div class="body-description"><div class="widget__brief"><p class="drop-caps">Less than two months after Hurricane Helene cut a historically devastating course up into the southeastern U.S. from Florida’s Big Bend, drenching a <a href="https://heatmap.news/climate/hurricane-helene-florida-size" target="_self"><u>wide swath</u></a> of states with <a href="https://apnews.com/article/rainfall-helene-carolina-tennessee-georgia-climate-change-flood-fcba634e14a0ffa1a8e1fa85d7e2b390" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank"><u>20 trillion gallons</u></a> of rainfall in just five days, experts are warning of another potential threat. The <a href="https://www.nifc.gov/" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank"><u>National Interagency Fire Center</u></a>’s forecast of fire-risk conditions for the coming months has the <a href="https://www.wtsp.com/article/weather/hurricane/helene/hurricane-helene-storm-path-track-map/67-0dcefd0d-5e64-43cc-8366-2766ae103256" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank"><u>footprint</u></a> of Helene highlighted in red, with the heightened concern stretching into the new year.</p><p>While the flip from intense precipitation to wildfire warnings might seem strange, experts say it speaks to the <a href="https://e360.yale.edu/features/climate-whiplash-wild-swings-in-extreme-weather-are-on-the-rise" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank"><u>weather whiplash</u></a> we’re now seeing regularly. “What we expect from climate change is this layering of weather extremes creating really dangerous situations,” Robert Scheller, a professor of forestry and environmental resources at North Carolina State University, explained to me. </p></div><div class="content-container"></div><div class="js-appear-on-expand"><template><p>Scheuller said North Carolina had been experiencing drought conditions early in the year, followed by intense rain leading up to Helene’s landfall. Then it went dry again — according to the <a href="https://droughtmonitor.unl.edu/CurrentMap/StateDroughtMonitor.aspx?NC" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank"><u>U.S. Drought Monitor</u></a>, much of the state was back to some level of drought condition as of mid-November. The NIFC forecast <a href="https://www.nifc.gov/nicc-files/predictive/outlooks/monthly_seasonal_outlook.pdf" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank"><u>report</u></a> says the same is true for much of the region, including Florida, despite its having been hit by Hurricane Milton soon after Helene. </p><p><div class="middle_leaderboard"></div></p><p>That dryness is a particular concern due to the amount of debris left in Helene’s wake — another major risk factor for fire. The storm’s winds, which reached more than 100 miles per hour in some areas, wreaked havoc on <a href="https://gatrees.org/forest-management-conservation/natural-disaster-recovery/hurricane-helene-recovery-assistance/" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank"><u>millions</u></a> of acres of forested land. In North Carolina alone, the state’s <a href="https://www.ncforestservice.gov/forest_health/pdf/HurricaneHelene_DamageAssessment_10_25_FINAL.pdf" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank"><u>Forest Service</u></a> estimates over 820,000 acres of timberland were damaged. </p><p class="shortcode-media shortcode-media-rebelmouse-image"><img id="d5172" data-rm-shortcode-id="05a26a66ed1c5bffff35bd0868505292" data-rm-shortcode-name="rebelmouse-image" class="rm-shortcode rm-lazyloadable-image " lazy-loadable="true" src="data:image/svg+xml,%3Csvg%20xmlns='http://www.w3.org/2000/svg'%20viewBox='0%200%203300%202550'%3E%3C/svg%3E" data-runner-src="https://heatmap.news/media-library/eyJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiIsInR5cCI6IkpXVCJ9.eyJpbWFnZSI6Imh0dHBzOi8vYXNzZXRzLnJibC5tcy81NDk3MDA3Ny9vcmlnaW4ucG5nIiwiZXhwaXJlc19hdCI6MTc2NTM1MTY2MH0.aBBWohIzIVPE9o1jj8fCqhHTwPaFB_-qNosGYXk0YgE/image.png?width=980" width="3300" height="2550" alt="Fire map for February 2025"/></p><p>“When you have a catastrophic storm like [Helene], all of the stuff that was standing upright — your trees — they might be snapped off or blown over,” fire ecologist David Godwin told me. “All of a sudden, that material is now on the forest floor, and so you have a really tremendous rearrangement of the fuels and the vegetation within ecosystems that can change the dynamics of how fire behaves in those sites.”</p><p>Godwin is the director of the Southern Fire Exchange for the University of Florida, a program that connects wildland firefighters, prescribed burners, and natural resources managers across the Southeast with fire science and tools. He says the Southeast sees <a href="https://southernwildfire.net/about" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank"><u>frequent, unplanned fires</u></a>, but that active ecosystem management helps keep the fires that do spark from becoming conflagrations. But an increase like this in fallen or dead vegetation — what Godwin refers to as fire “fuel” — can take this risk to the next level, particularly as it dries out. </p><p>Godwin offered an example from another storm, 2018’s Hurricane Michael, which rapidly intensified before making landfall in Northern Florida and continuing inland, similar to Hurricane Helene. In its aftermath, there was a <a href="https://www.stateforesters.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/Hurricane-Michael-TPs.pdf" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank"><u>10-fold increase</u></a> in the amount of fuel on the ground, with <a href="https://www.stateforesters.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/Hurricane-Michael-TPs.pdf" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank"><u>72 million tons of timber</u></a> damaged in Florida. Three years later, the <a href="https://www.newsherald.com/story/news/local/2022/03/11/wildfire-update-bertha-swamp-fire-size-panama-city-lynn-haven-bay-county/6999790001/" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank"><u>Bertha Swamp Road Fire</u></a> filled the storm’s Florida footprint with flames, which consumed more than 30,000 acres filled with dried out forest fuel. One Florida official <a href="https://www.kezi.com/news/florida-wildfire-that-has-scorched-over-34-000-acres-endangers-community-previously-hit-by-hurricane/article_18a4ce52-6af7-578a-97be-0c26a1ed0ca5.html" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank"><u>called</u></a> the wildfire the “ghost” of Michael, nodding to the overlap of the impacted areas and speaking to the environmental threat the storm posed even years later. </p><p><div class="middle_leaderboard"></div></p><p>Not only does this fuel increase the risk of fire, it changes the character of the fires that do ignite, Godwin said. Given ample ground fuel, flame lengths can grow longer, allowing them to burn higher into the canopy. That’s why people setting prescribed fires will take steps like raking leaf piles, which helps keep the fire intensity low. </p><p>These fires can also produce more smoke, Godwin said, which can mix with the mountainous fog in the region to deadly effect. According to the NIFC, mountainous areas incurred the most damage from Helene, not only due to downed vegetation, but also because of “washed out roads and trails” and “slope destabilization” from the winds and rain. If there is a fire in these areas, all these factors will also make it more challenging for firefighters to address it, the report adds. </p><p>In addition to the natural debris fire experts worry about, Helene caused extensive damage to the built environment, wrecking homes, businesses, and other infrastructure. Try imagining four-and-a-half football fields stacked 10 feet tall with debris — that’s what <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lkebQIJPs5U" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">officials have removed</a> so far just in Asheville, North Carolina. In Florida’s Treasure Island, there were piles <a href="https://www.aol.com/florida-towns-50-foot-tall-191337038.html" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank"><u>50 feet high</u></a> of assorted scrap materials. Officials have <a href="https://www.instagram.com/p/DCjxwHTpnGo/?img_index=1" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank"><u>warned</u></a> that some common household items, such as the lithium-ion batteries used in e-bikes and electric vehicles, can be particularly flammable after exposure to floodwaters. They are also <a href="https://www.buncombecounty.org/countycenter/news-detail.aspx?id=21815" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank"><u>advising against</u></a> burning debris as a means of managing it due to all the compounding risks.</p><p>Larry Pierson, deputy chief of the Swannanoa Fire Department in North Carolina, told <a href="https://www.bpr.org/bpr-news/2024-11-12/higher-risk-of-wildfire-as-downed-trees-dry-weather-follows-hurricane-helene" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank"><u>Blueridge Public Radio</u></a> that his department’s work has “grown exponentially since the storm.” While cooler, wetter winter weather could offer some relief, Scheuller said the area will likely see heightened fire behavior for <em><em>years</em></em> after the storm, particularly if the swings between particularly wet and particularly dry periods continue. </p><p>Part of the challenge moving forward, then, is to find ways to mitigate risk on this now-hazardous terrain. For homeowners, that might mean exercising caution when dealing with debris and considering wildfire risk as part of rebuilding plans, particularly in more wooded areas. On a larger forest management scale, this means prioritizing safe debris collection and finding ways to continue the practice of prescribed burns, which are utilized more in the <a href="https://southernwildfire.net/about" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank"><u>Southeast</u></a> than in any other U.S. region. Without focused mitigation efforts, Godwin told me the area’s overall fire outlook would be much different. </p><p><div class="middle_leaderboard"></div></p><p>“We would have a really big wildfire issue,” he said, “perhaps even bigger than what we might see in parts of the West.”</p></template></div><div class="widget__show-more with-primary-color js-keep-reading js-page-view-and-reload-embeds"><span class="show-more js-expand">Keep reading...</span><span class="show-less js-contract">Show less</span></div></div></div><span class="" data-elid="2669950964" data-post-url="https://heatmap.news/climate/hurricanes-and-wildfires" data-authors="Colleen Hagerty" data-headline="First Comes the Hurricane. Then Comes the Fire." data-page-title="First Comes the Hurricane. Then Comes the Fire. - Heatmap News"></span><div class="custom-field-storytype">Blue</div></div></div></div><script type="application/json" id="post-context-2669950964" class="post-context post-context-2669950964"> {"customDimensions": {"1":"Colleen Hagerty","7":2669950964,"3":"hurricanes, fires, wildfires, north carolina, florida, national interagency fire center, wildland fires, drought, u.s. drought monitor, hurricane helene","6":"hurricane helene","2":"climate","4":"11/25/2024"}, "post": {"id": 2669950964, "providerId": 0, "sections": [0, 593483924, 593483917], "authors": [26303432], "streams": [], "split_testing": {}} } </script></article></div></div></div></div><div class="infinite-container"></div><script>(function(t,e,s,o){var 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localStorage.setItem('userName',`${email.split("@")[0].trim()}`); if(window.REBELMOUSE_STDLIB.getDevice() == "mobile") { document.querySelector('.display-paywall .infeed-ad').style.marginBottom = "132px"; } } else { let login = document.querySelectorAll('.login-block'); let free = document.querySelectorAll('.free-member'); login.forEach(item => {item.querySelector('.login-form input[name="email"]').setAttribute('value', `${email}`)}) login.forEach(item => {item.classList.remove('hidden')}); free.forEach(item => item.classList.add('hidden')) //btn.closest('.register-block').classList.add('hidden') if(window.REBELMOUSE_STDLIB.getDevice() == "mobile") { document.querySelector('.display-paywall .infeed-ad').style.marginBottom = "95px"; } } } } xhr.open('GET',`/core/users/checkemail/?email=${email}`); xhr.setRequestHeader('X-Requested-With', 'XMLHttpRequest'); xhr.send(); } else { el.querySelector('.error-msn').classList.remove('hidden'); } }) }) }); window.REBELMOUSE_ACTIVE_TASKS_QUEUE.push(function(){ REBELMOUSE_STDLIB.createElementChangeListener(".widget", function(post) { let storyType = post.querySelector('.custom-field-storytype'); if (!storyType) { post.classList.add('red-block'); return false; } storyType = storyType.innerText; switch (storyType) { case 'Optimistic': case 'Green': post.classList.add('green-block'); break; case 'Neutral': case 'Yellow': post.classList.add('neutral-block', 'yellow-block'); break; case 'Blue': post.classList.add('neutral-block', 'blue-block'); break; default: post.classList.add('red-block'); } }); }); window.REBELMOUSE_ACTIVE_TASKS_QUEUE.push(function(){ let HBScript = document.createElement("script"); HBScript.setAttribute("id", "hs-script-loader"); HBScript.setAttribute("src", "//js.hs-scripts.com/23917781.js"); document.body.appendChild(HBScript); }); window.REBELMOUSE_ACTIVE_TASKS_QUEUE.push(function(){ window.REBELMOUSE_STDLIB.loadExternalScript("https://s.skimresources.com/js/250792X1734613.skimlinks.js", function() { }); }); window.REBELMOUSE_ACTIVE_TASKS_QUEUE.push(function(){ REBELMOUSE_STDLIB.createElementChangeListener(".regwall-signup-form .signup-form", function(el){ let registerBtn = el.querySelector('.authentication--submit'); registerBtn.addEventListener('click', function(e) { setTimeout(function() { let successMsg = el.querySelector('.authentication--feedback-module .authentication--success-feedback'); if (successMsg.textContent) { console.log("signup success" + successMsg.textContent); location.reload(); } }, 1000) }) }); REBELMOUSE_STDLIB.createElementChangeListener(".regwall-login-form .login-signup-wrapper", function(el) { let registerBtn = el.querySelector('.authentication--submit-module button'); registerBtn.addEventListener('click', function(e) { setTimeout(function() { let successMsg = el.querySelector('.authentication--feedback-module .authentication--success-feedback'); if (successMsg.textContent) { console.log("login success" + successMsg.textContent); //document.querySelector('.regwall-container').style.display = "none!important;"; location.reload(); } }, 1000); }) }); REBELMOUSE_STDLIB.createElementChangeListener(".regwall-check-email", function(el){ let btn = el.querySelector('.regwall-button'); // add click function to button btn.addEventListener('click', function() { let email = el.querySelector('input').value; // check input empty if(email.length > 0) { el.querySelector('.regwall-error').style.display = "none"; // check email is in DB const regwallForm = document.querySelector('.regwall-form'); const signupForm = document.querySelector('.regwall-signup-form'); const loginForm = document.querySelector('.regwall-login-form'); const signupFormEmail = document.querySelectorAll('.regwall-signup-form .authentication--field-email .authentication--input'); const loginFormEmail = 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item.querySelector('.media-photo-credit p'); if(caption && credit) { caption.innerHTML = `${caption.textContent} <span>${credit.textContent}</span>` } }) }) }); window.REBELMOUSE_ACTIVE_TASKS_QUEUE.push(function(){ REBELMOUSE_STDLIB.createElementChangeListener(".widget", function(post) { let storyType = post.querySelector('.custom-field-storytype'); if (!storyType) { post.classList.add('red-block'); return false; } storyType = storyType.innerText; switch (storyType) { case 'Optimistic': case 'Green': post.classList.add('green-block'); break; case 'Neutral': case 'Yellow': post.classList.add('neutral-block', 'yellow-block'); break; case 'Blue': post.classList.add('neutral-block', 'blue-block'); break; default: post.classList.add('red-block'); } }); });</script><script class="rm-i-script" id="user-javascript-lowest" type="text"> window.REBELMOUSE_LOWEST_TASKS_QUEUE.push(function(){ window.REBELMOUSE_STDLIB.loadExternalScript("https://securepubads.g.doubleclick.net/tag/js/gpt.js", function() { }); }); window.REBELMOUSE_LOWEST_TASKS_QUEUE.push(function(){ //Figure out if the reg or paywall is on and disable ads further down if it is let regwallOn = false; if (getCookie("freePosts2")) { regwallOn = true; } /*Get Cookie*/ function getCookie(cname) { let name = cname + "="; let decodedCookie = decodeURIComponent(document.cookie); let ca = decodedCookie.split(';'); for(let i = 0; i <ca.length; i++) { let c = ca[i]; while (c.charAt(0) == ' ') { c = c.substring(1); } if (c.indexOf(name) == 0) { return c.substring(name.length, c.length); } } return ""; } window.googletag = window.googletag || {cmd: []}; googletag.cmd.push(function() { var size_mapping = googletag.sizeMapping(). addSize([1024, 0], [[970, 250], [1000, 800]]). //desktop addSize([0, 0], [[300, 300], [300, 250], [390, 475]]). //mobile build(); googletag.defineSlot('/22891141306/hmn_bottom_leaderboard', [[970, 250], [300, 300], [300, 250]], 'bottom_leaderboard').defineSizeMapping(size_mapping).addService(googletag.pubads()); googletag.defineSlot('/22891141306/hmn_middle_leaderboard', [[970, 250], [300, 300], [300, 250]], 'middle_leaderboard').defineSizeMapping(size_mapping).addService(googletag.pubads()); googletag.defineSlot('/22891141306/hmn_sponsored_post', [[1000, 800], [390, 475]], 'hmn_sponsored_post').defineSizeMapping(size_mapping).addService(googletag.pubads()); googletag.cmd.push(function() {}); googletag.pubads() .setTargeting('hmn_tags', ["biden", "ali zaidi", "inflation reduction act", "permitting reform", "china", "climate policy"]) .setTargeting('hmn_postid', '2669392157') .setTargeting('hmn_section', 'Podcast') if (!regwallOn) { console.log("showing ads"); googletag.pubads().enableSingleRequest(); googletag.pubads().enableLazyLoad({ fetchMarginPercent: 400, // Fetch slots within 4 viewports. renderMarginPercent: 200, // Render slots within 2 viewports. mobileScaling: 2.0 // Double the above values on mobile. }); googletag.enableServices(); googletag.display('bottom_leaderboard'); googletag.display('middle_leaderboard'); } else { console.log("hiding ads"); } // ------------------- Post ---------------------------- // // -------------------- Newsletter ------------------------ // // -------------------- Newsletter ------------------------ // // ------------------- Section ---------------------------- // // ------------------- Section ---------------------------- // /* googletag.cmd.push(function() {}); googletag.pubads() googletag.pubads().enableSingleRequest(); googletag.enableServices(); //googletag.display('top_leaderboard'); //googletag.display('bottom_leaderboard'); //googletag.display('middle_leaderboard'); googletag.pubads().enableSingleRequest(); // googletag.pubads().setTargeting('hmn_section', 'Insert section dynamically'); // googletag.pubads().setTargeting('hmn_tags', 'Insert tags dynamically'); // googletag.pubads().setTargeting('hmn_postid', 'Insert post_id 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window.REBELMOUSE_LOWEST_TASKS_QUEUE.push(function(){ const menuToggle = () => { const menuButtons = Array.from(document.querySelectorAll('.menu-button')); const menu = document.querySelector('.menu:not(.hidden)'); const glassOverlay = document.querySelector('.glass-overlay'); const showHideMenu = function () { this.classList.toggle('menu-button--close'); glassOverlay.classList.toggle('active'); return menu.classList.toggle('active'); } return menuButtons.map(button => { button.addEventListener('click', showHideMenu); }); } menuToggle(); }); window.REBELMOUSE_LOWEST_TASKS_QUEUE.push(function(){ // create the Keywee Tracker tag (function (w, d) { w.kwa || (w.kwa = function () { (w.kwa.q = w.kwa.q || []).push(arguments); }); s = d.createElement('script'); s.src = '//cdn.keywee.co/dist/analytics.min.js'; s.async = true; f = d.scripts[0]; f.parentNode.insertBefore(s, f); })(window, document); // initialize the Keywee Tracker kwa('initialize',5357); }); 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