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class="noprint"></div> <div id="content" class="mw-body" role="main"> <a id="top"></a> <div id="siteNotice"></div> <div class="mw-indicators"> </div> <h1 id="firstHeading" class="firstHeading mw-first-heading"><span class="mw-page-title-namespace">Proposal talk</span><span class="mw-page-title-separator">:</span><span class="mw-page-title-main">Access key</span></h1> <div id="bodyContent" class="vector-body"> <div id="siteSub" class="noprint">From OpenStreetMap Wiki</div> <div id="contentSub"></div> <div id="contentSub2"></div> <div id="jump-to-nav"></div> <a class="mw-jump-link" href="#mw-head">Jump to navigation</a> <a class="mw-jump-link" href="#searchInput">Jump to search</a> <div id="mw-content-text" class="mw-body-content mw-content-ltr" lang="en" dir="ltr"><div class="mw-talkpageheader"> </div><div class="mw-parser-output"><h2><span id="Using_yes_and_master.3F"></span><span class="mw-headline" id="Using_yes_and_master?">Using yes and master?</span></h2> <p>Two of your examples use both yes and master:<br /> > <i>A toilet with a Eurokey system: `amenity=toilets + <b>access_key=yes + access_key=maste</b>r + access_key:operator=eurokey`</i><br /> > A parking space for disabled people with a RADAR key system: `amenity=parking_space + <b>access_key=yes + access_key=master</b> + access_key:operator=radar` <a href="/wiki/User:Nadjita" title="User:Nadjita">Nadjita</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Nadjita" title="User talk:Nadjita">talk</a>) 06:33, 17 October 2024 (UTC) </p><p>> yes, that is right. We chose to do it this way to be able to map all available options - even the ones we are missing to think about at the moment. We could also change it to access_key=private, access_key=master, access_key=no for example. How would you tag a place that uses a key but it is not private and not a master key, such as locked toilets at petrol stations? --<a href="/wiki/User:Isi17" title="User:Isi17">Isi17</a> (<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Isi17&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User talk:Isi17 (page does not exist)">talk</a>) 11:21, 17 October 2024 (UTC) </p> <dl><dd>You cannot tag something with <tt dir="ltr" class="mw-content-ltr" style="background:#EEF;font-size:1em;line-height:1.6"><bdi style="white-space:nowrap"><a href="/w/index.php?title=Key:access_key&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Key:access key (page does not exist)">access_key</a></bdi>=<a href="/w/index.php?title=Tag:access_key%3Dyes&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Tag:access key=yes (page does not exist)"><bdi>yes</bdi></a></tt> and <tt dir="ltr" class="mw-content-ltr" style="background:#EEF;font-size:1em;line-height:1.6"><bdi style="white-space:nowrap"><a href="/w/index.php?title=Key:access_key&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Key:access key (page does not exist)">access_key</a></bdi>=<a href="/w/index.php?title=Tag:access_key%3Dmaster&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Tag:access key=master (page does not exist)"><bdi>master</bdi></a></tt> at the same time, which is what I'm pointing out. If you are giving examples, make sure they are correct. <a href="/wiki/User:Nadjita" title="User:Nadjita">Nadjita</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Nadjita" title="User talk:Nadjita">talk</a>) 04:56, 19 October 2024 (UTC)</dd></dl> <h2><span id="How_is_it_different_from_centralkey.3F"></span><span class="mw-headline" id="How_is_it_different_from_centralkey?">How is it different from centralkey?</span></h2> <p>You're saying that <tt dir="ltr" class="mw-content-ltr" style="background:#EEF;font-size:1em;line-height:1.6"><bdi style="white-space:nowrap"><a href="/w/index.php?title=Key:access_key&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Key:access key (page does not exist)">access_key</a></bdi>=*</tt> "offers a more generic and scalable solution" than <tt dir="ltr" class="mw-content-ltr" style="background:#EEF;font-size:1em;line-height:1.6"><bdi style="white-space:nowrap"><a href="/wiki/Key:centralkey" title="Key:centralkey">centralkey</a></bdi>=*</tt>, yet I don't see anything new that can't be done with <tt dir="ltr" class="mw-content-ltr" style="background:#EEF;font-size:1em;line-height:1.6"><bdi style="white-space:nowrap"><a href="/wiki/Key:centralkey" title="Key:centralkey">centralkey</a></bdi>=*</tt> by introducing something like <tt dir="ltr" class="mw-content-ltr" style="background:#EEF;font-size:1em;line-height:1.6"><bdi style="white-space:nowrap"><a href="/w/index.php?title=Key:centralkey:type&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Key:centralkey:type (page does not exist)">centralkey:type</a></bdi>=<a href="/w/index.php?title=Tag:centralkey:type%3Dmaster/unknown&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Tag:centralkey:type=master/unknown (page does not exist)"><bdi>master/unknown</bdi></a></tt> for unknown systems, and officially allowing <tt dir="ltr" class="mw-content-ltr" style="background:#EEF;font-size:1em;line-height:1.6"><bdi style="white-space:nowrap"><a href="/wiki/Key:centralkey" title="Key:centralkey">centralkey</a></bdi>=<a href="/w/index.php?title=Tag:centralkey%3Dyes/no&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Tag:centralkey=yes/no (page does not exist)"><bdi>yes/no</bdi></a></tt> (which is already in use). A <tt dir="ltr" class="mw-content-ltr" style="background:#EEF;font-size:1em;line-height:1.6"><bdi style="white-space:nowrap"><a href="/w/index.php?title=Key:centralkey:wikidata&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Key:centralkey:wikidata (page does not exist)">centralkey:wikidata</a></bdi>=*</tt> has always been possible.<br /> How exactly is <tt dir="ltr" class="mw-content-ltr" style="background:#EEF;font-size:1em;line-height:1.6"><bdi style="white-space:nowrap"><a href="/w/index.php?title=Key:access_key&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Key:access key (page does not exist)">access_key</a></bdi>=<a href="/w/index.php?title=Tag:access_key%3Dmaster&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Tag:access key=master (page does not exist)"><bdi>master</bdi></a></tt> + <tt dir="ltr" class="mw-content-ltr" style="background:#EEF;font-size:1em;line-height:1.6"><bdi style="white-space:nowrap"><a href="/w/index.php?title=Key:access_key:operator&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Key:access key:operator (page does not exist)">access_key:operator</a></bdi>=<a href="/w/index.php?title=Tag:access_key:operator%3Deurokey&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Tag:access key:operator=eurokey (page does not exist)"><bdi>eurokey</bdi></a></tt> solving anything that <tt dir="ltr" class="mw-content-ltr" style="background:#EEF;font-size:1em;line-height:1.6"><bdi style="white-space:nowrap"><a href="/wiki/Key:centralkey" title="Key:centralkey">centralkey</a></bdi>=<a href="/wiki/Tag:centralkey%3Deurokey" class="mw-redirect" title="Tag:centralkey=eurokey"><bdi>eurokey</bdi></a></tt> + <tt dir="ltr" class="mw-content-ltr" style="background:#EEF;font-size:1em;line-height:1.6"><bdi style="white-space:nowrap"><a href="/w/index.php?title=Key:centralkey:type&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Key:centralkey:type (page does not exist)">centralkey:type</a></bdi>=<a href="/w/index.php?title=Tag:centralkey:type%3Dmaster&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Tag:centralkey:type=master (page does not exist)"><bdi>master</bdi></a></tt> cannot solve? You don't even need the <a href="/w/index.php?title=Template:Tey&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Template:Tey (page does not exist)">Template:Tey</a> if <tt dir="ltr" class="mw-content-ltr" style="background:#EEF;font-size:1em;line-height:1.6"><bdi style="white-space:nowrap"><a href="/wiki/Key:centralkey" title="Key:centralkey">centralkey</a></bdi>=*</tt> has any value other than yes, because anything but <tt dir="ltr" class="mw-content-ltr" style="background:#EEF;font-size:1em;line-height:1.6"><bdi style="white-space:nowrap"><a href="/wiki/Key:centralkey" title="Key:centralkey">centralkey</a></bdi>=<a href="/w/index.php?title=Tag:centralkey%3Dyes&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Tag:centralkey=yes (page does not exist)"><bdi>yes</bdi></a></tt> already implies <tt dir="ltr" class="mw-content-ltr" style="background:#EEF;font-size:1em;line-height:1.6"><bdi style="white-space:nowrap"><a href="/w/index.php?title=Key:centralkey:type&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Key:centralkey:type (page does not exist)">centralkey:type</a></bdi>=<a href="/w/index.php?title=Tag:centralkey:type%3Dmaster&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Tag:centralkey:type=master (page does not exist)"><bdi>master</bdi></a></tt>. </p><p>Right now, it feels more like you want to rename <tt dir="ltr" class="mw-content-ltr" style="background:#EEF;font-size:1em;line-height:1.6"><bdi style="white-space:nowrap"><a href="/wiki/Key:centralkey" title="Key:centralkey">centralkey</a></bdi>=*</tt>, because you dislike the naming. Fair enough, but is it enough reason to break all possibly existing data consumers? <a href="/wiki/User:Nadjita" title="User:Nadjita">Nadjita</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Nadjita" title="User talk:Nadjita">talk</a>) 06:52, 17 October 2024 (UTC) </p><p>We wanted to show an interest in the discussion from the last (centralkey) proposal where people said "centralkey" is a germanicism and would not be understood or used by the English speaking community. We then tried to find a word, that describes the feature of a (central) locking system. We as wheelmap.org want to use this tagging system mainly for toilets that use the eurokey or RADAR key, but we want to find a way to tag this without missing other systems. What term would you suggest? --<a href="/wiki/User:Isi17" title="User:Isi17">Isi17</a> (<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Isi17&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User talk:Isi17 (page does not exist)">talk</a>) 11:21, 17 October 2024 (UTC) </p> <dl><dd>A "central key" gives you access to doors with a "central cylinder". A central cylinder is often used in common areas of big apartment houses (attic, garages, main door, laundry), so that everyone can access their own apartment, plus garages, main door, attic, and probably toilets. You can have several areas in an apartment complex that have different central cylinder locks, and a single key can give you access to more than one of these areas. This type of key won't allow you access to other people's apartments, though.<br />A "master key" on the other hand, is a key that will unlock each and every door in a building. It's a central key, and more.<br />I just wanted to explain the actual meaning, so we're all on the same page. But: even if "centralkey" was a germanicism (I guess translated from "Zentralschlüssel", which would be translated to "master key". But having the term "master" or even "slave" in a tag is prooobably even worse than a "germanicism", plus the word is actually wrong, because these keys don't give you access like a master key), this would not be strong enough for me to accept what appears to be mainly a renaming proposal. We have much worse tags (<tt dir="ltr" class="mw-content-ltr" style="background:#EEF;font-size:1em;line-height:1.6"><bdi style="white-space:nowrap"><a href="/wiki/Key:highway" title="Key:highway">highway</a></bdi>=<a href="/wiki/Tag:highway%3Dsteps" title="Tag:highway=steps"><bdi>steps</bdi></a></tt> anyone?), and unless you're adding something on top of "just a new name", I don't see this proposal passing. <a href="/wiki/User:Nadjita" title="User:Nadjita">Nadjita</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Nadjita" title="User talk:Nadjita">talk</a>) 05:25, 19 October 2024 (UTC) <dl><dd>Thanks for the details and explanations! For context: The proposal comes from the Wheelmap team, to date we are the main data consumer of wheelchair-related tags (we're in contact with OnWheels from time to time for synchronization). The tag is only used 1356 times right now and kind of unmaintained. We want to change this by simplifying toilet tagging in the near future, but ensure first that the format is agreed on. --<a href="/wiki/User:Hypo808" title="User:Hypo808">Hypo808</a> (<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Hypo808&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User talk:Hypo808 (page does not exist)">talk</a>) 09:32, 24 January 2025 (UTC)</dd></dl></dd></dl> <h2><span class="mw-headline" id="Rework_and_reaccomodate">Rework and reaccomodate</span></h2> <ul><li><tt dir="ltr" class="mw-content-ltr" style="background:#EEF;font-size:1em;line-height:1.6"><bdi style="white-space:nowrap"><a href="/w/index.php?title=Key:access_key&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Key:access key (page does not exist)">access_key</a></bdi>=*</tt> : As mentioned by others, this has no significant difference with <tt dir="ltr" class="mw-content-ltr" style="background:#EEF;font-size:1em;line-height:1.6"><bdi style="white-space:nowrap"><a href="/wiki/Key:centralkey" title="Key:centralkey">centralkey</a></bdi>=*</tt> to offer substantial improvements. There's already a dozen <tt dir="ltr" class="mw-content-ltr" style="background:#EEF;font-size:1em;line-height:1.6"><bdi style="white-space:nowrap"><a href="/w/index.php?title=Key:authentication:key&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Key:authentication:key (page does not exist)">authentication:key</a></bdi>=*</tt> . It can be augmented by <tt dir="ltr" class="mw-content-ltr" style="background:#EEF;font-size:1em;line-height:1.6"><bdi style="white-space:nowrap"><a href="/w/index.php?title=Key:authentication:key&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Key:authentication:key (page does not exist)">authentication:key</a></bdi>=<a href="/w/index.php?title=Tag:authentication:key%3Dcentralkey&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Tag:authentication:key=centralkey (page does not exist)"><bdi>centralkey</bdi></a></tt> . This allows continued use of <tt dir="ltr" class="mw-content-ltr" style="background:#EEF;font-size:1em;line-height:1.6"><bdi style="white-space:nowrap"><a href="/wiki/Key:centralkey" title="Key:centralkey">centralkey</a></bdi>=*</tt> with it. ( <tt dir="ltr" class="mw-content-ltr" style="background:#EEF;font-size:1em;line-height:1.6"><bdi style="white-space:nowrap"><a href="/w/index.php?title=Key:barrier:*&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Key:barrier:* (page does not exist)">barrier:*</a></bdi>=*</tt> is only suitable for <tt dir="ltr" class="mw-content-ltr" style="background:#EEF;font-size:1em;line-height:1.6"><bdi style="white-space:nowrap"><a href="/wiki/Key:barrier" title="Key:barrier">barrier</a></bdi>=*</tt> )</li> <li><tt dir="ltr" class="mw-content-ltr" style="background:#EEF;font-size:1em;line-height:1.6"><bdi style="white-space:nowrap"><a href="/w/index.php?title=Key:access_key&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Key:access key (page does not exist)">access_key</a></bdi>=<a href="/w/index.php?title=Tag:access_key%3Dno&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Tag:access key=no (page does not exist)"><bdi>no</bdi></a></tt> : This is <tt dir="ltr" class="mw-content-ltr" style="background:#EEF;font-size:1em;line-height:1.6"><bdi style="white-space:nowrap"><a href="/wiki/Key:locked" title="Key:locked">locked</a></bdi>=<a href="/wiki/Tag:locked%3Dno" class="mw-redirect" title="Tag:locked=no"><bdi>no</bdi></a></tt> ?</li> <li><tt dir="ltr" class="mw-content-ltr" style="background:#EEF;font-size:1em;line-height:1.6"><bdi style="white-space:nowrap"><a href="/w/index.php?title=Key:access_key:operator&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Key:access key:operator (page does not exist)">access_key:operator</a></bdi>=*</tt> : Eurokey, and RADAR, aren't <tt dir="ltr" class="mw-content-ltr" style="background:#EEF;font-size:1em;line-height:1.6"><bdi style="white-space:nowrap"><a href="/w/index.php?title=Key:*:operator&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Key:*:operator (page does not exist)">*:operator</a></bdi>=*</tt> . They are a <tt dir="ltr" class="mw-content-ltr" style="background:#EEF;font-size:1em;line-height:1.6"><bdi style="white-space:nowrap"><a href="/w/index.php?title=Key:*:brand&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Key:*:brand (page does not exist)">*:brand</a></bdi>=*</tt> , <tt dir="ltr" class="mw-content-ltr" style="background:#EEF;font-size:1em;line-height:1.6"><bdi style="white-space:nowrap"><a href="/wiki/Key:network" title="Key:network">network</a></bdi>=*</tt> / <tt dir="ltr" class="mw-content-ltr" style="background:#EEF;font-size:1em;line-height:1.6"><bdi style="white-space:nowrap"><a href="/w/index.php?title=Key:*:network&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Key:*:network (page does not exist)">*:network</a></bdi>=*</tt> , or <tt dir="ltr" class="mw-content-ltr" style="background:#EEF;font-size:1em;line-height:1.6"><bdi style="white-space:nowrap"><a href="/w/index.php?title=Key:*:model&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Key:*:model (page does not exist)">*:model</a></bdi>=*</tt> etc.</li></ul> <p><br /> —— <a href="/wiki/User:Kovposch" title="User:Kovposch">Kovposch</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Kovposch" title="User talk:Kovposch">talk</a>) 07:42, 17 October 2024 (UTC) </p> <dl><dd><dl><dd>I agree, this seems to overlap with <tt dir="ltr" class="mw-content-ltr" style="background:#EEF;font-size:1em;line-height:1.6"><bdi style="white-space:nowrap"><a href="/wiki/Key:centralkey" title="Key:centralkey">centralkey</a></bdi>=*</tt>, and would lead to tagging fragmentation. I also don't think the term "access key" is suitable to describe the concept well (any key is for locking and unlocking, and most of the times it is about access, while the characteristics here are that the keys are universal and distributed or issued to a certain group of people who meet the requirements). --<a href="/wiki/User:Dieterdreist" title="User:Dieterdreist">Dieterdreist</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Dieterdreist" title="User talk:Dieterdreist">talk</a>) 09:56, 17 October 2024 (UTC)</dd></dl></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd>Thanks for these suggestions! I think you are right with the idea that it is better to use a word that describes the physical present fixed object (the lock) and not something mobile you have to bring yourself (the key). The <tt dir="ltr" class="mw-content-ltr" style="background:#EEF;font-size:1em;line-height:1.6"><bdi style="white-space:nowrap"><a href="/w/index.php?title=Key:*:network&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Key:*:network (page does not exist)">*:network</a></bdi>=*</tt> idea sounds like an improvement, too. Do I understand correctly that we'd be better of using <tt dir="ltr" class="mw-content-ltr" style="background:#EEF;font-size:1em;line-height:1.6"><bdi style="white-space:nowrap"><a href="/w/index.php?title=Key:locked:network:wikidata&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Key:locked:network:wikidata (page does not exist)">locked:network:wikidata</a></bdi>=*</tt> etc.? --<a href="/wiki/User:Hypo808" title="User:Hypo808">Hypo808</a> (<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Hypo808&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User talk:Hypo808 (page does not exist)">talk</a>) 09:42, 24 January 2025 (UTC)</dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <p>Please see my comment above at "How is it different from centralkey?" --<a href="/wiki/User:Isi17" title="User:Isi17">Isi17</a> (<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Isi17&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User talk:Isi17 (page does not exist)">talk</a>) 11:21, 17 October 2024 (UTC) </p>    </div> <div class="printfooter" data-nosnippet="">Retrieved from "<a dir="ltr" href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Proposal_talk:Access_key&oldid=2803986">https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Proposal_talk:Access_key&oldid=2803986</a>"</div></div> <div id="catlinks" class="catlinks catlinks-allhidden" data-mw="interface"></div> </div> </div> <div id="mw-navigation"> <h2>Navigation menu</h2> <div id="mw-head"> <nav id="p-personal" class="vector-menu mw-portlet mw-portlet-personal vector-user-menu-legacy" aria-labelledby="p-personal-label" role="navigation" > <h3 id="p-personal-label" class="vector-menu-heading " > <span class="vector-menu-heading-label">Personal tools</span> </h3> <div class="vector-menu-content"> <ul class="vector-menu-content-list"><li id="pt-uls" class="mw-list-item active"><a class="uls-trigger" href="#"><span>English</span></a></li><li id="pt-createaccount" class="mw-list-item"><a href="/w/index.php?title=Special:CreateAccount&returnto=Proposal+talk%3AAccess+key" title="You are encouraged to create an account and log in; however, it is not mandatory"><span>Create account</span></a></li><li id="pt-login" class="mw-list-item"><a href="/w/index.php?title=Special:UserLogin&returnto=Proposal+talk%3AAccess+key" title="You are encouraged to log in; however, it is not mandatory [o]" accesskey="o"><span>Log in</span></a></li></ul> </div> </nav> <div id="left-navigation"> <nav id="p-namespaces" class="vector-menu mw-portlet mw-portlet-namespaces vector-menu-tabs vector-menu-tabs-legacy" aria-labelledby="p-namespaces-label" role="navigation" > <h3 id="p-namespaces-label" class="vector-menu-heading " > <span class="vector-menu-heading-label">Namespaces</span> </h3> <div class="vector-menu-content"> <ul class="vector-menu-content-list"><li id="ca-nstab-proposal" class="mw-list-item"><a href="/wiki/Proposal:Access_key" title="[c]" accesskey="c"><span>Proposal</span></a></li><li id="ca-talk" class="selected mw-list-item"><a href="/wiki/Proposal_talk:Access_key" rel="discussion" title="Discussion about the content page [t]" accesskey="t"><span>Discussion</span></a></li></ul> </div> </nav> <nav id="p-variants" class="vector-menu mw-portlet mw-portlet-variants emptyPortlet vector-menu-dropdown" aria-labelledby="p-variants-label" role="navigation" > <input type="checkbox" id="p-variants-checkbox" role="button" aria-haspopup="true" data-event-name="ui.dropdown-p-variants" class="vector-menu-checkbox" aria-labelledby="p-variants-label" /> <label id="p-variants-label" aria-label="Change language variant" class="vector-menu-heading " > <span class="vector-menu-heading-label">English</span> </label> <div class="vector-menu-content"> <ul class="vector-menu-content-list"></ul> </div> </nav> </div> <div id="right-navigation"> <nav id="p-views" class="vector-menu mw-portlet mw-portlet-views vector-menu-tabs vector-menu-tabs-legacy" aria-labelledby="p-views-label" role="navigation" > <h3 id="p-views-label" class="vector-menu-heading " > <span class="vector-menu-heading-label">Views</span> </h3> <div class="vector-menu-content"> <ul class="vector-menu-content-list"><li id="ca-view" class="selected mw-list-item"><a href="/wiki/Proposal_talk:Access_key"><span>Read</span></a></li><li id="ca-viewsource" class="mw-list-item"><a href="/w/index.php?title=Proposal_talk:Access_key&action=edit" title="This page is protected.
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