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class="vector-toc-list"> <li id="toc-Involved_parties" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-2"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Involved_parties"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">1.1</span> <span>Involved parties</span> </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Involved_parties-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Prior_dispute_resolution" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-2"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Prior_dispute_resolution"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">1.2</span> <span>Prior dispute resolution</span> </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Prior_dispute_resolution-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Preliminary_statements" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Preliminary_statements"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">2</span> <span>Preliminary statements</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">47 comments</span> <button aria-controls="toc-Preliminary_statements-sublist" class="cdx-button cdx-button--weight-quiet cdx-button--icon-only vector-toc-toggle"> <span class="vector-icon mw-ui-icon-wikimedia-expand"></span> <span>Toggle Preliminary statements subsection</span> </button> <ul id="toc-Preliminary_statements-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> <li id="toc-Statement_by_Barkeep49" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-2"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Statement_by_Barkeep49"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">2.1</span> <span>Statement by Barkeep49</span> </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Statement_by_Barkeep49-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Statement_by_Colin" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-2"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Statement_by_Colin"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">2.2</span> <span>Statement by Colin</span> </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Statement_by_Colin-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Statement_by_Doc_James" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-2"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Statement_by_Doc_James"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">2.3</span> <span>Statement by Doc James</span> </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Statement_by_Doc_James-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Statement_by_QuackGuru" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-2"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Statement_by_QuackGuru"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">2.4</span> <span>Statement by QuackGuru</span> </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Statement_by_QuackGuru-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Statement_by_SandyGeorgia" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-2"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Statement_by_SandyGeorgia"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">2.5</span> <span>Statement by SandyGeorgia</span> </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Statement_by_SandyGeorgia-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Statement_by_Seraphimblade" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-2"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Statement_by_Seraphimblade"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">2.6</span> <span>Statement by Seraphimblade</span> </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Statement_by_Seraphimblade-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Statement_by_WhatamIdoing" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-2"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Statement_by_WhatamIdoing"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">2.7</span> <span>Statement by WhatamIdoing</span> </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Statement_by_WhatamIdoing-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Statement_by_AlmostFrancis" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-2"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Statement_by_AlmostFrancis"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">2.8</span> <span>Statement by AlmostFrancis</span> </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Statement_by_AlmostFrancis-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Statement_by_Avicenno" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-2"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Statement_by_Avicenno"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">2.9</span> <span>Statement by Avicenno</span> </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Statement_by_Avicenno-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Statement_by_bluerasberry" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-2"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Statement_by_bluerasberry"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">2.10</span> <span>Statement by bluerasberry</span> </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Statement_by_bluerasberry-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Statement_by_CFCF" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-2"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Statement_by_CFCF"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">2.11</span> <span>Statement by CFCF</span> </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Statement_by_CFCF-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Statement_by_Hipal/Ronz" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-2"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Statement_by_Hipal/Ronz"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">2.12</span> <span>Statement by Hipal/Ronz</span> </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Statement_by_Hipal/Ronz-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Statement_by_Ozzie10aaaa" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-2"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Statement_by_Ozzie10aaaa"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">2.13</span> <span>Statement by Ozzie10aaaa</span> </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Statement_by_Ozzie10aaaa-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Statement_by_RexxS" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-2"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Statement_by_RexxS"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">2.14</span> <span>Statement by RexxS</span> </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Statement_by_RexxS-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Statement_by_Levivich" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-2"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Statement_by_Levivich"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">2.15</span> <span>Statement by Levivich</span> </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Statement_by_Levivich-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Statement_by_Thryduulf" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-2"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Statement_by_Thryduulf"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">2.16</span> <span>Statement by Thryduulf</span> </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Statement_by_Thryduulf-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Statement_by_Natureium" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-2"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Statement_by_Natureium"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">2.17</span> <span>Statement by Natureium</span> </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Statement_by_Natureium-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Statement_by_JzG" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-2"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Statement_by_JzG"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">2.18</span> <span>Statement by JzG</span> </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Statement_by_JzG-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Statement_by_Tryptofish" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-2"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Statement_by_Tryptofish"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">2.19</span> <span>Statement by Tryptofish</span> </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Statement_by_Tryptofish-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Statement_by_Masem" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-2"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Statement_by_Masem"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">2.20</span> <span>Statement by Masem</span> </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Statement_by_Masem-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Statement_by_Iridescent" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-2"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Statement_by_Iridescent"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">2.21</span> <span>Statement by Iridescent</span> </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Statement_by_Iridescent-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Statement_by_WereSpielChequers" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-2"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Statement_by_WereSpielChequers"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">2.22</span> <span>Statement by WereSpielChequers</span> </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Statement_by_WereSpielChequers-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Statement_by_Paul_August" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-2"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Statement_by_Paul_August"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">2.23</span> <span>Statement by Paul August</span> </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Statement_by_Paul_August-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Statement_by_Literaturegeek" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-2"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Statement_by_Literaturegeek"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">2.24</span> <span>Statement by Literaturegeek</span> </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Statement_by_Literaturegeek-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Statement_by_Wugapodes" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-2"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Statement_by_Wugapodes"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">2.25</span> <span>Statement by Wugapodes</span> </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Statement_by_Wugapodes-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Statement_by_Robert_McClenon" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-2"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Statement_by_Robert_McClenon"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">2.26</span> <span>Statement by Robert McClenon</span> </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Statement_by_Robert_McClenon-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-S_Marshall" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-2"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#S_Marshall"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">2.27</span> <span>S Marshall</span> </div> </a> <ul id="toc-S_Marshall-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Statement_by_Outriggr" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-2"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Statement_by_Outriggr"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">2.28</span> <span>Statement by Outriggr</span> </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Statement_by_Outriggr-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Statement_by_Amakuru" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-2"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Statement_by_Amakuru"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">2.29</span> <span>Statement by Amakuru</span> </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Statement_by_Amakuru-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Statement_by_Reciprocater" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-2"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Statement_by_Reciprocater"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">2.30</span> <span>Statement by Reciprocater</span> </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Statement_by_Reciprocater-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Preliminary_decision" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Preliminary_decision"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">3</span> <span>Preliminary decision</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">14 comments</span> <button aria-controls="toc-Preliminary_decision-sublist" class="cdx-button cdx-button--weight-quiet cdx-button--icon-only vector-toc-toggle"> <span class="vector-icon mw-ui-icon-wikimedia-expand"></span> <span>Toggle Preliminary decision subsection</span> </button> <ul id="toc-Preliminary_decision-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> <li id="toc-Clerk_notes" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-2"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Clerk_notes"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">3.1</span> <span>Clerk notes</span> </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Clerk_notes-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Arbitrators'_opinions_on_hearing_this_matter_(8/0/0)" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-2"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Arbitrators'_opinions_on_hearing_this_matter_(8/0/0)"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">3.2</span> <span>Arbitrators' opinions on hearing this matter (8/0/0)</span> </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Arbitrators'_opinions_on_hearing_this_matter_(8/0/0)-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Temporary_injunction_(none)" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-2"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Temporary_injunction_(none)"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">3.3</span> <span>Temporary injunction (none)</span> </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Temporary_injunction_(none)-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Final_decision" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Final_decision"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">4</span> <span>Final decision</span> </div> </a> <button aria-controls="toc-Final_decision-sublist" class="cdx-button cdx-button--weight-quiet cdx-button--icon-only vector-toc-toggle"> <span class="vector-icon mw-ui-icon-wikimedia-expand"></span> <span>Toggle Final decision subsection</span> </button> <ul id="toc-Final_decision-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> <li id="toc-Principles" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-2"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Principles"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">4.1</span> <span>Principles</span> </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Principles-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> <li id="toc-Purpose_of_Wikipedia" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-3"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Purpose_of_Wikipedia"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">4.1.1</span> <span>Purpose of Wikipedia</span> </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Purpose_of_Wikipedia-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Neutrality_and_conflicts_of_interest" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-3"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Neutrality_and_conflicts_of_interest"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">4.1.2</span> <span>Neutrality and conflicts of interest</span> </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Neutrality_and_conflicts_of_interest-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Wikipedia_is_not_a_battleground" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-3"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Wikipedia_is_not_a_battleground"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">4.1.3</span> <span>Wikipedia is not a battleground</span> </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Wikipedia_is_not_a_battleground-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Sanctions_and_circumstances" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-3"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Sanctions_and_circumstances"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">4.1.4</span> <span>Sanctions and circumstances</span> </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Sanctions_and_circumstances-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Tendentious_editing" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-3"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Tendentious_editing"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">4.1.5</span> <span>Tendentious editing</span> </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Tendentious_editing-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Fait_accompli" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-3"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Fait_accompli"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">4.1.6</span> <span><i>Fait accompli</i></span> </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Fait_accompli-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Criticism_and_casting_aspersions" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-3"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Criticism_and_casting_aspersions"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">4.1.7</span> <span>Criticism and casting aspersions</span> </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Criticism_and_casting_aspersions-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Existing_policy_on_pricing" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-3"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Existing_policy_on_pricing"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">4.1.8</span> <span>Existing policy on pricing</span> </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Existing_policy_on_pricing-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Clarity_of_consensus" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-3"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Clarity_of_consensus"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">4.1.9</span> <span>Clarity of consensus</span> </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Clarity_of_consensus-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Levels_of_consensus" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-3"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Levels_of_consensus"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">4.1.10</span> <span>Levels of consensus</span> </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Levels_of_consensus-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Role_of_the_Arbitration_Committee" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-3"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Role_of_the_Arbitration_Committee"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">4.1.11</span> <span>Role of the Arbitration Committee</span> </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Role_of_the_Arbitration_Committee-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Findings_of_fact" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-2"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Findings_of_fact"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">4.2</span> <span>Findings of fact</span> </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Findings_of_fact-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> <li id="toc-Locus_of_dispute" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-3"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Locus_of_dispute"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">4.2.1</span> <span>Locus of dispute</span> </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Locus_of_dispute-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Manual_of_Style:_Medicine-related_articles_and_pharmaceutical_drug_prices" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-3"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Manual_of_Style:_Medicine-related_articles_and_pharmaceutical_drug_prices"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">4.2.2</span> <span>Manual of Style: Medicine-related articles and pharmaceutical drug prices</span> </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Manual_of_Style:_Medicine-related_articles_and_pharmaceutical_drug_prices-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Unclear_consensus_of_requests_for_comment_is_not_novel" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-3"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Unclear_consensus_of_requests_for_comment_is_not_novel"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">4.2.3</span> <span>Unclear consensus of requests for comment is not novel</span> </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Unclear_consensus_of_requests_for_comment_is_not_novel-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-CFCF" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-3"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#CFCF"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">4.2.4</span> <span>CFCF</span> </div> </a> <ul id="toc-CFCF-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Colin" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-3"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Colin"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">4.2.5</span> <span>Colin</span> </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Colin-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Doc_James" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-3"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Doc_James"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">4.2.6</span> <span>Doc James</span> </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Doc_James-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-QuackGuru" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-3"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#QuackGuru"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">4.2.7</span> <span>QuackGuru</span> </div> </a> <ul id="toc-QuackGuru-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Remedies" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-2"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Remedies"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">4.3</span> <span>Remedies</span> </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Remedies-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> <li id="toc-Contentious_topic_designation" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-3"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Contentious_topic_designation"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">4.3.1</span> <span>Contentious topic designation</span> </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Contentious_topic_designation-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-CFCF_reminded" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-3"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#CFCF_reminded"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">4.3.2</span> <span>CFCF reminded</span> </div> </a> <ul id="toc-CFCF_reminded-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Doc_James_restricted" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-3"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Doc_James_restricted"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">4.3.3</span> <span>Doc James restricted</span> </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Doc_James_restricted-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-QuackGuru_topic_banned" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-3"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#QuackGuru_topic_banned"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">4.3.4</span> <span>QuackGuru topic banned</span> </div> </a> <ul id="toc-QuackGuru_topic_banned-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Enforcement" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-2"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Enforcement"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">4.4</span> <span>Enforcement</span> </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Enforcement-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> <li id="toc-Enforcement_of_restrictions" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-3"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Enforcement_of_restrictions"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">4.4.1</span> <span>Enforcement of restrictions</span> </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Enforcement_of_restrictions-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Appeals_and_modifications" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-3"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Appeals_and_modifications"> <div 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title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case">Case</a></bdi></div></div></div> <div id="mw-content-text" class="mw-body-content"><div class="mw-content-ltr mw-parser-output" lang="en" dir="ltr"><div class="casenav" style="background-color: var(--background-color-warning-subtle, #fef6e7); color: var(--color-base, #202122); border:1px solid #aaa; margin-bottom:0.5em; font-size: 95%; text-align: center; padding: 0.5em"><div style="margin-right: 1em; float: middle;"><style data-mw-deduplicate="TemplateStyles:r1252059228">.mw-parser-output .module-shortcutboxplain{float:right;margin:0 0 0 1em;border:1px solid var(--border-color-base,#a2a9b1);background-color:var(--background-color-base,#fff);padding:0.3em 0.6em 0.2em 0.6em;text-align:center;font-size:85%}.mw-parser-output .module-shortcutboxleft{float:left;margin:0 1em 0 0}.mw-parser-output .module-shortcutlist{display:inline-block;border-bottom:1px solid var(--border-color-base,#a2a9b1);margin-bottom:0.2em}.mw-parser-output .module-shortcutboxplain ul{font-weight:bold}.mw-parser-output .module-shortcutanchordiv{position:relative;top:-3em}.mw-parser-output li .module-shortcutanchordiv{float:right}.mw-parser-output .mbox-imageright .module-shortcutboxplain{padding:0.4em 1em 0.4em 1em;line-height:1.3;margin:0}</style><div class="module-shortcutanchordiv"><span id="WP:ARBMED"></span></div><div class="module-shortcutboxplain noprint" role="note"><div class="module-shortcutlist"><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Shortcut" title="Wikipedia:Shortcut">Shortcut</a></div><style data-mw-deduplicate="TemplateStyles:r1126788409">.mw-parser-output .plainlist ol,.mw-parser-output .plainlist ul{line-height:inherit;list-style:none;margin:0;padding:0}.mw-parser-output .plainlist ol li,.mw-parser-output .plainlist ul li{margin-bottom:0}</style><div class="plainlist"><ul><li><span class="plainlinks"><a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:ARBMED&redirect=no">WP:ARBMED</a></span></li></ul></div></div></div> <a class="mw-selflink selflink">Main case page</a> <small>(<a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Medicine" title="Wikipedia talk:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Medicine">Talk</a>)</small> — <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Medicine/Evidence" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Medicine/Evidence">Evidence</a> <small>(<a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Medicine/Evidence" title="Wikipedia talk:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Medicine/Evidence">Talk</a>)</small> — <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Medicine/Workshop" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Medicine/Workshop">Workshop</a> <small>(<a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Medicine/Workshop" title="Wikipedia talk:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Medicine/Workshop">Talk</a>)</small> — <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Medicine/Proposed_decision" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Medicine/Proposed decision">Proposed decision</a> <small>(<a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Medicine/Proposed_decision" title="Wikipedia talk:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Medicine/Proposed decision">Talk</a>)</small><p class="mw-empty-elt"></p><p><b>Case clerks</b>: <a href="/wiki/User:Dreamy_Jazz" title="User:Dreamy Jazz">Dreamy Jazz</a> <small>(<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Dreamy_Jazz" title="User talk:Dreamy Jazz">Talk</a>)</small> & <a href="/wiki/User:Guerillero" title="User:Guerillero">Guerillero</a> <small>(<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Guerillero" title="User talk:Guerillero">Talk</a>)</small> <b>Drafting arbitrators</b>: <a href="/wiki/User:Bradv" title="User:Bradv">Bradv</a> <small>(<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Bradv" title="User talk:Bradv">Talk</a>)</small> & <a href="/wiki/User:David_Fuchs" title="User:David Fuchs">David Fuchs</a> <small>(<a href="/wiki/User_talk:David_Fuchs" title="User talk:David Fuchs">Talk</a>)</small> & <a href="/wiki/User:Maxim" title="User:Maxim">Maxim</a> <small>(<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Maxim" title="User talk:Maxim">Talk</a>)</small></p></div><style data-mw-deduplicate="TemplateStyles:r1129693374">.mw-parser-output .hlist dl,.mw-parser-output .hlist ol,.mw-parser-output .hlist ul{margin:0;padding:0}.mw-parser-output .hlist dd,.mw-parser-output .hlist dt,.mw-parser-output .hlist li{margin:0;display:inline}.mw-parser-output .hlist.inline,.mw-parser-output .hlist.inline dl,.mw-parser-output .hlist.inline ol,.mw-parser-output .hlist.inline ul,.mw-parser-output .hlist dl dl,.mw-parser-output .hlist dl ol,.mw-parser-output .hlist dl ul,.mw-parser-output .hlist ol dl,.mw-parser-output .hlist ol ol,.mw-parser-output .hlist ol ul,.mw-parser-output .hlist ul dl,.mw-parser-output .hlist ul ol,.mw-parser-output .hlist ul ul{display:inline}.mw-parser-output .hlist .mw-empty-li{display:none}.mw-parser-output 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src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/0e/Scale_of_justice_2.svg/45px-Scale_of_justice_2.svg.png" decoding="async" width="45" height="46" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/0e/Scale_of_justice_2.svg/68px-Scale_of_justice_2.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/0e/Scale_of_justice_2.svg/90px-Scale_of_justice_2.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="204" data-file-height="208"/></a></span></td></tr><tr><td class="sidebar-content"> <div class="plainlist padding-top"> <ul><li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration">About arbitration</a><div style="float: right;"><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Arbitration/Requests" title="Wikipedia talk:Arbitration/Requests">Talk</a></div></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Policy" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Policy">Arbitration policy</a> <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration_Committee/CheckUser_and_Oversight" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration 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template">v</abbr></a></li><li class="nv-talk"><a href="/wiki/Template_talk:ArbCom_sidebar" class="mw-redirect" title="Template talk:ArbCom sidebar"><abbr title="Discuss this template">t</abbr></a></li><li class="nv-edit"><a href="/wiki/Special:EditPage/Template:ArbCom_sidebar" title="Special:EditPage/Template:ArbCom sidebar"><abbr title="Edit this template">e</abbr></a></li></ul></div></td></tr></tbody></table> <p><big><b>Case opened</b> on 19:53, 7 April 2020 (UTC)</big> </p><p><big><b>Case closed</b> on 14:58, 3 June 2020 (UTC)</big> </p><p><big><b>Case amended by <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration_Committee/Discretionary_sanctions/2021-22_review#Administrative_provisions" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration Committee/Discretionary sanctions/2021-22 review">motion</a></b> on 21:36, 14 December 2022 (UTC)</big> </p><p><big><b>Case amended by <a href="/wiki/Special:PermanentLink/1180830171#Pruning_remedies" title="Special:PermanentLink/1180830171">motion</a></b> on 03:15, 19 October 2023 (UTC)</big> </p> <div style="text-align: right;"><small><span style="background-color: White">Watchlist all case (and talk) pages: <span class="plainlinks"><a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Medicine&action=watch"><b>Front</b></a>, <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Medicine/Evidence&action=watch"><b>Ev.</b></a>, <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Medicine/Workshop&action=watch"><b>Wshp.</b></a>, <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Medicine/Proposed_decision&action=watch"><b>PD.</b></a></span></span></small></div> <style data-mw-deduplicate="TemplateStyles:r1238436933">.mw-parser-output .ombox{margin:4px 0;border-collapse:collapse;border:1px solid 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.mbox-invalid-type{text-align:center}@media(min-width:720px){.mw-parser-output .ombox{margin:4px 10%}.mw-parser-output .ombox.mbox-small{clear:right;float:right;margin:4px 0 4px 1em;width:238px}}body.skin--responsive .mw-parser-output table.ombox img{max-width:none!important}@media screen{html.skin-theme-clientpref-night .mw-parser-output .ombox-speedy{background-color:#310402}}@media screen and (prefers-color-scheme:dark){html.skin-theme-clientpref-os .mw-parser-output .ombox-speedy{background-color:#310402}}</style><table class="plainlinks ombox ombox-notice" role="presentation"><tbody><tr><td class="mbox-image"><span typeof="mw:File"><span><img src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/26/Nuvola_apps_important_blue.svg/55px-Nuvola_apps_important_blue.svg.png" decoding="async" width="55" height="46" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/26/Nuvola_apps_important_blue.svg/83px-Nuvola_apps_important_blue.svg.png 1.5x, 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No edits should be made to this page except by clerks or arbitrators.</b> <ul><li>Any violations of the remedies passed in the case should be raised at <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement">Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement</a>.</li> <li>Specific requests for amendment or clarification about the decision should be raised at <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Clarification_and_Amendment" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Clarification and Amendment">Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Clarification and Amendment</a>.</li> <li>General questions can be raised at <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Arbitration_Committee" title="Wikipedia talk:Arbitration Committee">Wikipedia talk:Arbitration Committee</a>.</li> <li>Actions taken to enforce remedies authorised in the case (if applicable) are to be logged at the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration_enforcement_log" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration enforcement log">centralised arbitration enforcement log</a>.</li></ul></td></tr></tbody></table> <meta property="mw:PageProp/toc"/> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Case_information" data-mw-thread-id="h-Case_information"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Case_information"></span>Case information<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Case_information"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Medicine&action=edit&section=1" title="Edit section: Case information"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span></div> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading3"><h3 id="Involved_parties" data-mw-thread-id="h-Involved_parties-Case_information"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Involved_parties-Case_information"></span>Involved parties<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Involved_parties-Case_information"></span></h3><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Medicine&action=edit&section=2" title="Edit section: Involved parties"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span></div> <ul><li><a href="/wiki/User:Barkeep49" title="User:Barkeep49">Barkeep49</a> <span class="plainlinks">(<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Barkeep49" title="User talk:Barkeep49">talk</a> <b>·</b> <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Barkeep49" title="Special:Contributions/Barkeep49">contribs</a> <b>·</b> <a href="/wiki/Special:Log/block/Barkeep49" title="Special:Log/block/Barkeep49">blocks</a> <b>·</b> <a href="/wiki/Special:Log/protect/Barkeep49" title="Special:Log/protect/Barkeep49">protections</a> <b>·</b> <a href="/wiki/Special:Log/delete/Barkeep49" title="Special:Log/delete/Barkeep49">deletions</a> <b>·</b> <a href="/wiki/Special:Log/move/Barkeep49" title="Special:Log/move/Barkeep49">page moves</a> <b>·</b> <a href="/wiki/Special:Log/rights/Barkeep49" title="Special:Log/rights/Barkeep49">rights</a> <b>·</b> <a href="/wiki/Special:PrefixIndex/Wikipedia:Requests_for_adminship/Barkeep49" title="Special:PrefixIndex/Wikipedia:Requests for adminship/Barkeep49">RfA</a>)</span>, <i>filing party</i></li> <li><a href="/wiki/User:Colin" title="User:Colin">Colin</a> <span class="plainlinks">(<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Colin" title="User talk:Colin">talk</a> <b>·</b> <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Colin" title="Special:Contributions/Colin">contribs</a> <b>·</b> <a href="/wiki/Special:DeletedContributions/Colin" title="Special:DeletedContributions/Colin">deleted contribs</a> <b>·</b> <a href="/wiki/Special:Log/Colin" title="Special:Log/Colin">logs</a> <b>·</b> <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3AAbuseLog&wpSearchUser=Colin">filter log</a> <b>·</b> <a href="/wiki/Special:Block/Colin" title="Special:Block/Colin">block user</a> <b>·</b> <a class="external 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href="/wiki/Special:PrefixIndex/Wikipedia:Requests_for_adminship/Doc_James" title="Special:PrefixIndex/Wikipedia:Requests for adminship/Doc James">RfA</a>)</span></li> <li><a href="/wiki/User:QuackGuru" title="User:QuackGuru">QuackGuru</a> <span class="plainlinks">(<a href="/wiki/User_talk:QuackGuru" title="User talk:QuackGuru">talk</a> <b>·</b> <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/QuackGuru" title="Special:Contributions/QuackGuru">contribs</a> <b>·</b> <a href="/wiki/Special:DeletedContributions/QuackGuru" title="Special:DeletedContributions/QuackGuru">deleted contribs</a> <b>·</b> <a href="/wiki/Special:Log/QuackGuru" title="Special:Log/QuackGuru">logs</a> <b>·</b> <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3AAbuseLog&wpSearchUser=QuackGuru">filter log</a> <b>·</b> <a href="/wiki/Special:Block/QuackGuru" title="Special:Block/QuackGuru">block user</a> <b>·</b> <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3ALog%2Fblock&page=User%3AQuackGuru">block log</a>)</span></li> <li><a href="/wiki/User:SandyGeorgia" title="User:SandyGeorgia">SandyGeorgia</a> <span class="plainlinks">(<a href="/wiki/User_talk:SandyGeorgia" title="User talk:SandyGeorgia">talk</a> <b>·</b> <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/SandyGeorgia" title="Special:Contributions/SandyGeorgia">contribs</a> <b>·</b> <a href="/wiki/Special:DeletedContributions/SandyGeorgia" title="Special:DeletedContributions/SandyGeorgia">deleted contribs</a> <b>·</b> <a href="/wiki/Special:Log/SandyGeorgia" title="Special:Log/SandyGeorgia">logs</a> <b>·</b> <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3AAbuseLog&wpSearchUser=SandyGeorgia">filter log</a> <b>·</b> <a href="/wiki/Special:Block/SandyGeorgia" title="Special:Block/SandyGeorgia">block user</a> <b>·</b> <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3ALog%2Fblock&page=User%3ASandyGeorgia">block log</a>)</span></li> <li><a href="/wiki/User:Seraphimblade" title="User:Seraphimblade">Seraphimblade</a> <span class="plainlinks">(<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Seraphimblade" title="User talk:Seraphimblade">talk</a> <b>·</b> <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Seraphimblade" title="Special:Contributions/Seraphimblade">contribs</a> <b>·</b> <a href="/wiki/Special:Log/block/Seraphimblade" title="Special:Log/block/Seraphimblade">blocks</a> <b>·</b> <a href="/wiki/Special:Log/protect/Seraphimblade" title="Special:Log/protect/Seraphimblade">protections</a> <b>·</b> <a href="/wiki/Special:Log/delete/Seraphimblade" title="Special:Log/delete/Seraphimblade">deletions</a> <b>·</b> <a href="/wiki/Special:Log/move/Seraphimblade" title="Special:Log/move/Seraphimblade">page moves</a> <b>·</b> <a href="/wiki/Special:Log/rights/Seraphimblade" title="Special:Log/rights/Seraphimblade">rights</a> <b>·</b> <a href="/wiki/Special:PrefixIndex/Wikipedia:Requests_for_adminship/Seraphimblade" title="Special:PrefixIndex/Wikipedia:Requests for adminship/Seraphimblade">RfA</a>)</span></li> <li><a href="/wiki/User:WhatamIdoing" title="User:WhatamIdoing">WhatamIdoing</a> <span class="plainlinks">(<a href="/wiki/User_talk:WhatamIdoing" title="User talk:WhatamIdoing">talk</a> <b>·</b> <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/WhatamIdoing" title="Special:Contributions/WhatamIdoing">contribs</a> <b>·</b> <a href="/wiki/Special:DeletedContributions/WhatamIdoing" title="Special:DeletedContributions/WhatamIdoing">deleted contribs</a> <b>·</b> <a href="/wiki/Special:Log/WhatamIdoing" title="Special:Log/WhatamIdoing">logs</a> <b>·</b> <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3AAbuseLog&wpSearchUser=WhatamIdoing">filter log</a> <b>·</b> <a href="/wiki/Special:Block/WhatamIdoing" title="Special:Block/WhatamIdoing">block user</a> <b>·</b> <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3ALog%2Fblock&page=User%3AWhatamIdoing">block log</a>)</span></li> <li><a href="/w/index.php?title=User:AlmostFrancis&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:AlmostFrancis (page does not exist)">AlmostFrancis</a> <span class="plainlinks">(<a href="/wiki/User_talk:AlmostFrancis" title="User talk:AlmostFrancis">talk</a> <b>·</b> <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/AlmostFrancis" title="Special:Contributions/AlmostFrancis">contribs</a> <b>·</b> <a href="/wiki/Special:DeletedContributions/AlmostFrancis" title="Special:DeletedContributions/AlmostFrancis">deleted contribs</a> <b>·</b> <a href="/wiki/Special:Log/AlmostFrancis" title="Special:Log/AlmostFrancis">logs</a> <b>·</b> <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3AAbuseLog&wpSearchUser=AlmostFrancis">filter log</a> <b>·</b> <a href="/wiki/Special:Block/AlmostFrancis" title="Special:Block/AlmostFrancis">block user</a> <b>·</b> <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3ALog%2Fblock&page=User%3AAlmostFrancis">block log</a>)</span></li> <li><a href="/wiki/User:Avicenno" title="User:Avicenno">Avicenno</a> <span class="plainlinks">(<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Avicenno" title="User talk:Avicenno">talk</a> <b>·</b> <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Avicenno" title="Special:Contributions/Avicenno">contribs</a> <b>·</b> <a href="/wiki/Special:DeletedContributions/Avicenno" title="Special:DeletedContributions/Avicenno">deleted contribs</a> <b>·</b> <a href="/wiki/Special:Log/Avicenno" title="Special:Log/Avicenno">logs</a> <b>·</b> <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3AAbuseLog&wpSearchUser=Avicenno">filter log</a> <b>·</b> <a href="/wiki/Special:Block/Avicenno" title="Special:Block/Avicenno">block user</a> <b>·</b> <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3ALog%2Fblock&page=User%3AAvicenno">block log</a>)</span></li> <li><a href="/wiki/User:Bluerasberry" title="User:Bluerasberry">Bluerasberry</a> <span class="plainlinks">(<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Bluerasberry" title="User talk:Bluerasberry">talk</a> <b>·</b> <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Bluerasberry" title="Special:Contributions/Bluerasberry">contribs</a> <b>·</b> <a href="/wiki/Special:DeletedContributions/Bluerasberry" title="Special:DeletedContributions/Bluerasberry">deleted contribs</a> <b>·</b> <a href="/wiki/Special:Log/Bluerasberry" title="Special:Log/Bluerasberry">logs</a> <b>·</b> <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3AAbuseLog&wpSearchUser=Bluerasberry">filter log</a> <b>·</b> <a href="/wiki/Special:Block/Bluerasberry" title="Special:Block/Bluerasberry">block user</a> <b>·</b> <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3ALog%2Fblock&page=User%3ABluerasberry">block log</a>)</span></li> <li><a href="/wiki/User:CFCF" class="mw-redirect" title="User:CFCF">CFCF</a> <span class="plainlinks">(<a href="/wiki/User_talk:CFCF" title="User talk:CFCF">talk</a> <b>·</b> <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/CFCF" title="Special:Contributions/CFCF">contribs</a> <b>·</b> <a href="/wiki/Special:DeletedContributions/CFCF" title="Special:DeletedContributions/CFCF">deleted contribs</a> <b>·</b> <a href="/wiki/Special:Log/CFCF" title="Special:Log/CFCF">logs</a> <b>·</b> <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3AAbuseLog&wpSearchUser=CFCF">filter log</a> <b>·</b> <a href="/wiki/Special:Block/CFCF" title="Special:Block/CFCF">block user</a> <b>·</b> <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3ALog%2Fblock&page=User%3ACFCF">block log</a>)</span></li> <li><a href="/wiki/User:Hipal" title="User:Hipal">Hipal</a> <span class="plainlinks">(<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Hipal" title="User talk:Hipal">talk</a> <b>·</b> <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Hipal" title="Special:Contributions/Hipal">contribs</a> <b>·</b> <a href="/wiki/Special:DeletedContributions/Hipal" title="Special:DeletedContributions/Hipal">deleted contribs</a> <b>·</b> <a href="/wiki/Special:Log/Hipal" title="Special:Log/Hipal">logs</a> <b>·</b> <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3AAbuseLog&wpSearchUser=Hipal">filter log</a> <b>·</b> <a href="/wiki/Special:Block/Hipal" title="Special:Block/Hipal">block user</a> <b>·</b> <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3ALog%2Fblock&page=User%3AHipal">block log</a>)</span> (formerly Ronz)</li> <li><a href="/wiki/User:Ozzie10aaaa" title="User:Ozzie10aaaa">Ozzie10aaaa</a> <span class="plainlinks">(<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Ozzie10aaaa" title="User talk:Ozzie10aaaa">talk</a> <b>·</b> <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Ozzie10aaaa" title="Special:Contributions/Ozzie10aaaa">contribs</a> <b>·</b> <a href="/wiki/Special:DeletedContributions/Ozzie10aaaa" title="Special:DeletedContributions/Ozzie10aaaa">deleted contribs</a> <b>·</b> <a href="/wiki/Special:Log/Ozzie10aaaa" title="Special:Log/Ozzie10aaaa">logs</a> <b>·</b> <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3AAbuseLog&wpSearchUser=Ozzie10aaaa">filter log</a> <b>·</b> <a href="/wiki/Special:Block/Ozzie10aaaa" title="Special:Block/Ozzie10aaaa">block user</a> <b>·</b> <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3ALog%2Fblock&page=User%3AOzzie10aaaa">block log</a>)</span></li> <li><a href="/wiki/User:RexxS" title="User:RexxS">RexxS</a> <span class="plainlinks">(<a href="/wiki/User_talk:RexxS" title="User talk:RexxS">talk</a> <b>·</b> <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/RexxS" title="Special:Contributions/RexxS">contribs</a> <b>·</b> <a href="/wiki/Special:Log/block/RexxS" title="Special:Log/block/RexxS">blocks</a> <b>·</b> <a href="/wiki/Special:Log/protect/RexxS" title="Special:Log/protect/RexxS">protections</a> <b>·</b> <a href="/wiki/Special:Log/delete/RexxS" title="Special:Log/delete/RexxS">deletions</a> <b>·</b> <a href="/wiki/Special:Log/move/RexxS" title="Special:Log/move/RexxS">page moves</a> <b>·</b> <a href="/wiki/Special:Log/rights/RexxS" title="Special:Log/rights/RexxS">rights</a> <b>·</b> <a href="/wiki/Special:PrefixIndex/Wikipedia:Requests_for_adminship/RexxS" title="Special:PrefixIndex/Wikipedia:Requests for adminship/RexxS">RfA</a>)</span></li></ul> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading3"><h3 id="Prior_dispute_resolution" data-mw-thread-id="h-Prior_dispute_resolution-Case_information"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Prior_dispute_resolution-Case_information"></span>Prior dispute resolution<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Prior_dispute_resolution-Case_information"></span></h3><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Medicine&action=edit&section=3" title="Edit section: Prior dispute resolution"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span></div> <ul><li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Manual_of_Style/Medicine-related_articles/Archive_11" title="Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style/Medicine-related articles/Archive 11">Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style/Medicine-related articles/Archive 11</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Manual_of_Style/Medicine-related_articles/Archive_12" title="Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style/Medicine-related articles/Archive 12">Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style/Medicine-related articles/Archive 12</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Manual_of_Style/Medicine-related_articles/Archive_13" title="Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style/Medicine-related articles/Archive 13">Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style/Medicine-related articles/Archive 13</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_130#MEDPRICE" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Medicine/Archive 130">Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Medicine/Archive 130#MEDPRICE</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/IncidentArchive1025#User:Colin" title="Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/IncidentArchive1025">Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard/IncidentArchive1025#User:Colin</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Barkeep49/Archives/3#AN/I_close" title="User talk:Barkeep49/Archives/3">User_talk:Barkeep49/Archives/3#AN/I_close</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style/Medicine-related_articles/RFC_on_pharmaceutical_drug_prices" title="Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Medicine-related articles/RFC on pharmaceutical drug prices">Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Medicine-related articles/RFC on pharmaceutical drug prices</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine#RFC_on_pharmaceutical_drug_prices" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Medicine">Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine#RFC_on_pharmaceutical_drug_prices</a> <ul><li><a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Simvastatin&action=history">Simvastatin's article history</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Talk:Ethosuximide" title="Talk:Ethosuximide">Talk:Ethosuximide</a></li></ul></li></ul> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Preliminary_statements" data-mw-thread-id="h-Preliminary_statements-2020-03-31T04:33:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Preliminary_statements-2020-03-31T04:33:00.000Z"></span>Preliminary statements<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Preliminary_statements-2020-03-31T04:33:00.000Z"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Medicine&action=edit&section=4" title="Edit section: Preliminary statements"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading3"><h3 id="Statement_by_Barkeep49" data-mw-thread-id="h-Statement_by_Barkeep49-Preliminary_statements-2020-03-31T05:32:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Statement_by_Barkeep49-Preliminary_statements-2020-03-31T05:32:00.000Z"></span>Statement by Barkeep49<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Statement_by_Barkeep49-Preliminary_statements-2020-03-31T05:32:00.000Z"></span></h3><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Medicine&action=edit&section=5" title="Edit section: Statement by Barkeep49"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Barkeep49-2020-03-31T05:32:00.000Z-Statement_by_Barkeep49"></span>This is a dispute over what kind of information about pricing of drugs and medicines belongs in articles that goes back years. The community made an admirable attempt to solve this dispute at the most recent <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/IncidentArchive1025#User:Colin" title="Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/IncidentArchive1025">ANI thread</a> which I closed and then attempted to implement as an uninvolved administrator. This lead to an <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style/Medicine-related_articles/RFC_on_pharmaceutical_drug_prices" title="Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Medicine-related articles/RFC on pharmaceutical drug prices">RfC</a> which was recently closed. However, the RfC, despite finding consensus in some areas has not stopped the conflict as shown at <a href="/wiki/Simvastatin" title="Simvastatin">Simvastatin</a> and <a href="/wiki/Ethosuximide" title="Ethosuximide">Ethosuximide</a>. While at the core a content dispute and a dispute about our policies, there is enough disruptive behavior that an ArbCom case could lead to a structure or remedies to allow the disruptive behavior to end and our dispute resolution mechanism, which have been tried to their fullest, to stick. I have named the maximum number participants in this discussion/dispute that the template allows but there are several others who could be included and I have simply included those as parties who seem most involved (with a slight bias towards administrators) and I believe some of the listed parties have committed no behavioral issues while a couple of unlisted parties have exhibited behavior that could be sanctioned. 3:31, March 30, 2020‎ (UTC) </p> <dl><dd><span class="plainlinks"><a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Newyorkbrad">Newyorkbrad</a></span> if the discussion were merely happening at the Medicine WikiProject trying to sort everything out, even if that got a bit contentious, I would say of course not. However, Simvastatin's article history points to edit warring involving a quite a few editors. And then at a different article the response to an edit being challenged was to immediately open another RfC seemingly re-litigating elements of the last RfC. I don't know if this was the right time. I wish these editors were focused on pandemic related content. But that wish is't the reality I'm seeing and I do not have hope that another RfC, narrower in scope than the last one and thus not likely to do more than achieve consensus at a particular article, is going to be effective dispute resolution for a conflict which is hundreds of articles in scope and has active edit warring among a non-limited set of editors. Best, <a href="/wiki/User:Barkeep49" title="User:Barkeep49">Barkeep49</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Barkeep49" title="User talk:Barkeep49">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Medicine#c-Barkeep49-2020-03-31T05:32:00.000Z-Statement_by_Barkeep49" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">05:32, 31 March 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Barkeep49-2020-03-31T05:32:00.000Z-Statement_by_Barkeep49"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Barkeep49-2020-03-31T05:32:00.000Z-Statement_by_Barkeep49"></span></dd> <dd><span class="template-ping"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Barkeep49-2020-03-31T18:42:00.000Z-Barkeep49-2020-03-31T05:32:00.000Z"></span>@<a href="/wiki/User:DGG" title="User:DGG">DGG</a>:</span> Obviously you can't and shouldn't solve the areas the community left to no consensus. However, the RfC decided a fair bit more than just whether it should be in the lead. It's evidence of edit warring over those elements, and the immediate rush to a new RfC which I see not as a dispute resolution mechanism but to "win" their way, that suggests to me that the past behavior which I believe to fall short of community expectations is going to continue. Even in the midst of a global pandemic when I would think editors in this topic might have better things to do. Best, <a href="/wiki/User:Barkeep49" title="User:Barkeep49">Barkeep49</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Barkeep49" title="User talk:Barkeep49">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Medicine#c-Barkeep49-2020-03-31T18:42:00.000Z-Barkeep49-2020-03-31T05:32:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:42, 31 March 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Barkeep49-2020-03-31T18:42:00.000Z-Barkeep49-2020-03-31T05:32:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Barkeep49-2020-03-31T18:42:00.000Z-Barkeep49-2020-03-31T05:32:00.000Z"></span></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Barkeep49-2020-04-01T16:25:00.000Z-Barkeep49-2020-03-31T05:32:00.000Z"></span>Re:other parties, Sandy covered the other people I considered as parties minus Rexx who has also been active in the area. I would just like to repeat, so people don't get the wrong idea about my adding Rexx, about my view that not all the parties listed have done anything against policy but are parties simply because they are active in this dispute. Best, <a href="/wiki/User:Barkeep49" title="User:Barkeep49">Barkeep49</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Barkeep49" title="User talk:Barkeep49">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Medicine#c-Barkeep49-2020-04-01T16:25:00.000Z-Barkeep49-2020-03-31T05:32:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:25, 1 April 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Barkeep49-2020-04-01T16:25:00.000Z-Barkeep49-2020-03-31T05:32:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Barkeep49-2020-04-01T16:25:00.000Z-Barkeep49-2020-03-31T05:32:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading3"><h3 id="Statement_by_Colin" data-mw-thread-id="h-Statement_by_Colin-Preliminary_statements"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Statement_by_Colin-Preliminary_statements"></span>Statement by Colin<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Statement_by_Colin-Preliminary_statements"></span></h3><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Medicine&action=edit&section=6" title="Edit section: Statement by Colin"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span></div> <p>James has singled-handedly <a href="/wiki/User:Colin/PriceEdits" title="User:Colin/PriceEdits">inserted prices into the lead of over 530 drug articles</a> over the past five years, rejecting long-standing <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:NOTPRICES" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:NOTPRICES">WP:NOTPRICES</a> policy forbidding this, and ignoring two RFCs on the matter. The first <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_84#Price_of_medications" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Medicine/Archive 84">in 2016</a> found no consensus to add prices, except when sources note significance. Despite this RFC rejection of routine drug price inclusion, James cited it <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style/Medicine-related_articles&diff=918868308&oldid=918082394">when adding prices to the MEDMOS guideline in September 2019</a>. QuackGuru then <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style/Medicine-related_articles&diff=919066283&oldid=918868308">added to MEDMOS</a> an advocacy statement against the pharmaceutical industry as justification for including prices. This is what sparked the dispute that led to the second RFC <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style/Medicine-related_articles/RFC_on_pharmaceutical_drug_prices" title="Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Medicine-related articles/RFC on pharmaceutical drug prices">in 2020</a>. That RFC also re-affirmed the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:NOTPRICES" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:NOTPRICES">WP:NOTPRICES</a> requirement for extensive discussion in secondary sources, and went further to disallow prices in the article lead, and the use of primary source price databases as the sole source of a price figure. This RFC conclusion satisfies the core of the dispute, and has been <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia_talk%3AWikiProject_Medicine&type=revision&diff=948487304&oldid=948480323">confirmed again by the closing admin</a> </p><p>The edit warring by James and <a href="/wiki/User:Ozzie10aaaa" title="User:Ozzie10aaaa">Ozzie10aaaa</a> that sparked Barkeep's request is not a recent feature (and previously involved the currently blocked <a href="/wiki/User:QuackGuru" title="User:QuackGuru">QuackGuru</a>). <a href="/wiki/User:Colin/PriceEdits" title="User:Colin/PriceEdits">There have been two dozen conflicts</a> over many years, where multiple editors have had their policy-based attempts to remove prices from drug articles thwarted by a swift revert by James. The edit war at <a href="/wiki/Simvastatin" title="Simvastatin">Simvastatin</a> on the 30th was a disgraceful rejection of the RFC result. The five editors that James and Ozzie10aaaa reverted (<a href="/wiki/User:WhatamIdoing" title="User:WhatamIdoing">WhatamIdoing</a>, <a href="/wiki/User:SandyGeorgia" title="User:SandyGeorgia">SandyGeorgia</a>, <a href="/wiki/User:Graham_Beards" title="User:Graham Beards">Graham Beards</a>, <a href="/wiki/User:Hipal" title="User:Hipal">Hipal/Ronz</a>, <a href="/wiki/User:Seraphimblade" title="User:Seraphimblade">Seraphimblade</a>) are James's peers, equals, and have collectively decades of Wikipedia wisdom, experience and hard earned respect in editing medical topics. James showed them no respect, reverting them all (with Ozzie10aaaa's per-Doc-James help). My own <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Ethosuximide&diff=948010701&oldid=936680663">single edit</a> to <a href="/wiki/Ethosuximide" title="Ethosuximide">Ethosuximide</a> was made after extensive discussion at the RFC and <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine&diff=948000893&oldid=948000780">unanimous (including James) support that the price claim made was untenable</a>. It was rejected and the claim <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Ethosuximide&diff=948066374&oldid=948010701">restored by James</a> within hours -- edit summary "Adjusted". </p><p>James frequently takes an idiosyncratic interpretation of our sources and policy. Where <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:NOTPRICES" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:NOTPRICES">policy</a> requires commentary in mainstream media sources and rejects passing mention, James <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Ethosuximide&diff=948083844&oldid=814816850">offers</a> passing mention in a specialist textbook and a single Italian retail price from twenty years ago. When the RFC disallowed the use of a primary source database of product prices, James <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine&diff=948232647&oldid=948231501">took the PDF export of that database</a> and claimed it was a "recognised standard textbook by experts in a field" (i.e., a tertiary source). </p><p>James believes "<a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Ivermectin#Price">we have a very strong lobby which wishes to suppress pricing information but we are not censored</a>", and he is engaged in a battle to include prices on all drug articles. Editors who remove prices are "<a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_130#MEDPRICE">pushing the industry position to try to WP:CENSOR Wikipedia</a>". James claims "<a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Ivermectin#Price">Ongoing lawsuits by industry to prevent having to disclose the price in commercials. Obviously that demonstrates that they are of encyclopedic value</a>". The battle justifies edit warring with peers, ignoring policy and rejecting the outcome of two RFCs. </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading3"><h3 id="Statement_by_Doc_James" data-mw-thread-id="h-Statement_by_Doc_James-Preliminary_statements"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Statement_by_Doc_James-Preliminary_statements"></span>Statement by Doc James<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Statement_by_Doc_James-Preliminary_statements"></span></h3><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Medicine&action=edit&section=7" title="Edit section: Statement by Doc James"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span></div> <p>Thanks <a href="/wiki/User:Barkeep49" title="User:Barkeep49">User:Barkeep49</a> for opening this. While the prior <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style/Medicine-related_articles/RFC_on_pharmaceutical_drug_prices">RfC</a> came to a conclusion against including numerical prices in the lead. The conclusion was not for removal of all pricing information generally (despite this some appear to interpret the conclusion that way). Additionally it does not come to a conclusion around using none numerical expressions of cost in the lead. Hopefully the current RfCs will clarify some of that. </p><p>With respect to behavioral issues, they stretch much farther back than this issue as discussed at <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/IncidentArchive1025#User%3AColin">the ANI in Dec of 2019 with respect to Colin</a>. Unfortunately the behavioral issues were refactored as a content issue. An atmosphere has been created over the last number of months / years at WPMED that makes many editors hesitant to engage in discussions as they are concerned that the great attention Colin directs towards me will be turned their direction. </p><p>On Dec 2nd I requested that Colin stop pinging me.(<a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine&type=revision&diff=928955269&oldid=928950820&diffmode=source">Dec 2nd at 19:04</a>) I had previously requested, a number of years back that they not post on my talk page, which they also did not follow. Colin "<a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine&diff=next&oldid=928964052&diffmode=source">replied</a> to this request: <a href="/wiki/User:Doc_James" title="User:Doc James">James</a> As long as you won't drop this issue, you'll get pinged whenever I mention your name." and he not only pinged me in the reply but continued pinging.<a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine&type=revision&diff=929092774&oldid=929091888&diffmode=source">[1]</a> </p><p>After being brought to ANI and being threatened with a block they backed down. SandyGeorgia was the first one to respond and did not appear to have any concerns with their behavior. She has continued on the pinging tradition with 6 pings today, all to bring my attention to a single discussion I was obviously watching.<a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine&oldid=prev&diff=948249692&diffmode=source">[2]</a><a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine&oldid=prev&diff=948248228&diffmode=source">[3]</a><a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine&oldid=prev&diff=948246306&diffmode=source">[4]</a><a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine&oldid=prev&diff=948243283&diffmode=source">[5]</a><a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine&oldid=prev&diff=948236512&diffmode=source">[6]</a><a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine&oldid=prev&diff=948236126&diffmode=source">[7]</a> Sandy has criticized me multiple times for requesting unwanted pings to stop, today stating "<a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine&type=revision&diff=948251744&oldid=948251075&diffmode=source">you disallowed pings and were not keeping up with discussion</a>". </p><p>When the harassment team initial stated they were developing a tool to silence unwanted pings, I did not think such as thing was needed as I assumed all one would ever have to do was politely ask. I have now changed my position on this and fully support the development of such a tool. </p><p>@<a href="/wiki/User:Newyorkbrad" title="User:Newyorkbrad">User:Newyorkbrad</a> agree not the best timing for some of us. @Agree with <a href="/wiki/User:DGG" title="User:DGG">User:DGG</a>. We are also having a disagreement over what language such as "little" means with some claiming a multiple page discussion of prices is still "little". Some are attempting to apply to this topic area "rules" we would never apply to anything else just because some editors do not like this content. </p><p>Other issues include... Disagreement with the position to write for a general audience. Some disagree with ongoing work to collaborate between languages. Some disagree with attempts to innovate around the types of content we provide. And some disagree with my involvement generally. If we decide to address this after the current pandemic that is not unreasonable but I imagine we will be back to address the ongoing behavioral problems. The speed at which, by who, and with the degree of pointedness that the <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine#RFC_on_pharmaceutical_drug_prices">RfC conclusions were raised at WT:MED</a> makes that clear. </p><p>Parsing this sentence "Where secondary sources discuss pricing extensively (insulin being a frequently cited example), that information may be worth including in the article; where there is little discussion of pricing in secondary sources, it generally should not be included." I interpret it to mean as long as we have secondary sources that extensively discussion costs / prices it can be included. </p><p>This "Where pricing information is included, claims should be sourced to reliable, secondary sources and not solely primary source data from price databases." I do not take that to mean that the price database cannot be used ever. If that was the case it would say this source published by the World Health Organization<a rel="nofollow" class="external autonumber" href="https://www.msh.org/sites/default/files/msh-2015-international-medical-products-price-guide.pdf">[8]</a> should never be used despite MEDRS stating source from the WHO are among the ideal. </p><p>Yes WAID's summary of the close is completely different than how I would interpret the summary. It is interesting to note that 24% of text in the prior RfC was from Colin, 22% from WAID and 15% from Sandy (three people wrote >60% of the bytes).<a rel="nofollow" class="external autonumber" href="https://xtools.wmflabs.org/articleinfo/en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style/Medicine-related_articles/RFC_on_pharmaceutical_drug_prices">[9]</a> Easy to see how that may not represent community consensus or how suppressing other opinions may be occurring. </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading3"><h3 id="Statement_by_QuackGuru" data-mw-thread-id="h-Statement_by_QuackGuru-Preliminary_statements"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Statement_by_QuackGuru-Preliminary_statements"></span>Statement by QuackGuru<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Statement_by_QuackGuru-Preliminary_statements"></span></h3><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Medicine&action=edit&section=8" title="Edit section: Statement by QuackGuru"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span></div> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading3"><h3 id="Statement_by_SandyGeorgia" data-mw-thread-id="h-Statement_by_SandyGeorgia-Preliminary_statements-2020-04-01T17:07:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Statement_by_SandyGeorgia-Preliminary_statements-2020-04-01T17:07:00.000Z"></span>Statement by SandyGeorgia<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Statement_by_SandyGeorgia-Preliminary_statements-2020-04-01T17:07:00.000Z"></span></h3><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Medicine&action=edit&section=9" title="Edit section: Statement by SandyGeorgia"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span></div><p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-SandyGeorgia-2020-04-01T17:07:00.000Z-Statement_by_SandyGeorgia"></span> Go forward, with flexibility for COVID-related timing issues. <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Doc_James&diff=947838814&oldid=947838595">James has time;</a> if not, he could make time by leaving space for others to edit, rather than exercising control across the spectrum of medical content. The drug pricing dispute is the latest symptom (among many) of OWNERSHIP affecting WPMED, with behavior furthered by enablers, who showup with no policy-based reasoning in James' RFC proliferation where !voting is preferenced over discussion,<a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Simvastatin&diff=prev&oldid=948316442">[10]</a> <a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style/Medicine-related_articles/RFC_on_pharmaceutical_drug_prices&diff=prev&oldid=939486693">[11]</a> <a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style/Medicine-related_articles/RFC_on_lead_guideline_for_medicine-related_articles&diff=prev&oldid=935394589">[12]</a> <a class="external autonumber" href="https://tools.wmflabs.org/sigma/editorinteract.py?users=Ozzie10aaaa&users=Doc+James&users=&startdate=&enddate=&ns=&server=enwiki">[13]</a> <a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Doc_James&diff=948241900&oldid=948195669">[14]</a> and <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case&oldid=948413268#Statement_by_Barkeep49">winning</a> is preferenced over policy. Driving this division-- and desire to "win" over content in the lead of Every Single Medical Article-- are differences about on-en.Wikipedia policy-based editing <a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style/Medicine-related_articles/RFC_on_pharmaceutical_drug_prices&diff=940283746&oldid=940281711https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style/Medicine-related_articles/RFC_on_pharmaceutical_drug_prices&diff=940283746&oldid=940281711">[15]</a> versus <span style="color:black;background:yellow">external (non-en.Wikipedia) projects</span>, that use leads only of medical articles, and expect them to be written differently than Wikipedia policy supports. <a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Manual_of_Style/Medicine-related_articles/Archive_10#Lead">[16]</a> Proponents are typically convinced they are saving lives by re-writing leads to the neglect of overall content, and justify that as the reason for ignoring policy. </p><div class="paragraphbreak" style="margin-top:0.5em"></div><p>The case name is inadequate; this advocacy editing extends beyond drug pricing, and disallows others from enjoying editing to produce policy-based and accurate, timely medical text-- something the Medicine Project once excelled at.<a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Incidents&diff=prev&oldid=929333660">[17]</a><a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine&oldid=948534682#Featured_article_removal_candidates">[18]</a> One editor has exercised control over inconceivable amounts of content, often edit warring, editing always too quickly, making customary editing errors while trying to do too much, too fast<a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine&oldid=948419857#Ethosuximide">[19]</a><a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine&oldid=948419857#Pyrimethamine">[20]</a> counting on RFC !voting whenever pushback occurs, and furthering inaccurate representations<a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Incidents&diff=prev&oldid=929581033">[21]</a> <a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:SandyGeorgia/arch105#Prostate">[22]</a> of others' behavior (example, the <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case&oldid=948413268#Statement_by_Doc_James">misrepresented pinging description</a>). </p><div class="paragraphbreak" style="margin-top:0.5em"></div><p> Granting "exceptional"<a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Incidents&diff=prev&oldid=833136499">[23]</a> leeway on timing to one editor will further the long-standing problems. Dozens of editors spent FOUR months formulating and participating in an RFC. One group scarcely engaged, so the <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case&oldid=948413268#Statement_by_Tryptofish">"need to act on that" time</a> is upon us. Deferring to an editor who scarcely engaged in DR about <a href="/wiki/User:Colin/PriceEdits" title="User:Colin/PriceEdits">volumes of non-policy-compliant text added by him</a> will not address the recurring behavioral issues proliferating across all areas of medical content, and causing several experienced editors (including editors who helped form the history and reputation of WPMED) to stop editing.</p><div class="paragraphbreak" style="margin-top:0.5em"></div><p> I advocated a methodical approach to implementation <a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine&oldid=948333685#Implementation">[24]</a> of a useful RFC. <a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia_talk%3AWikiProject_Medicine&type=revision&diff=948481344&oldid=948479027">[25]</a> James disregarded the community-wide RFC,<a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine&oldid=948372532#Conclusions">[26]</a> launching two new RFCs of his own. In good faith, when specifically asked at the ANI if James should be topic banned, I suggested trying an RFC.<a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Incidents&diff=prev&oldid=929514688">[27]</a> Only as the RFC evolved did I understand that the alleged broad drug pricing dispute never existed; it was only two editors (Bluerasberry and Doc James, in a few instances backed in editwarring by QuackGuru and Ozzie10aaaa, sometimes by Jytdog), and we should have been examining that behavior.<a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia_talk:Prices&diff=933521350&oldid=933521065">[28]</a><a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia_talk:Prices&diff=next&oldid=933521350">[29]</a><a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Prices&oldid=684270341">[30]</a><a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User:Colin/PriceEdits&oldid=937493445">[31]</a> <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case&oldid=948413268#Statement_by_Tryptofish">No more RFCs.</a> </p><div class="paragraphbreak" style="margin-top:0.5em"></div><p> There are considerable issues going back many years. Measures to address one aspect of a larger problem have proven unsuccessful. Considering the number of parties and issues, word limits will be a problem. </p><ul><li><span class="template-ping">@<a href="/wiki/User:DGG" title="User:DGG">DGG</a>:</span>, I don't know if I am allowed to respond to you, since I am at my word limit. Could someone please explain how word limits apply to responding to arb queries? Re <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case&diff=948545587&oldid=948542614">deferring on timing,</a> that is precisely what I mean about preferencing "exceptional" editors who didn't bother to participate in the RFC over all of the rest of us who gave four months to this-- our Thanksgiving, Christmas, New Year's and Valentine's-- while James and others largely ignored the RFC. Those editors who are supposedly SO busy are overtaxed because of the very OWNERSHIP issue, that has caused the rest of us to leave the Medicine Project, which has caused medical content OVERALL, including coronavirus, to suffer. We All Count. The truth is MOST medical editors are not involved in COVID editing, which is largely not medical content at this point-- it's politics and tallying numbers. It is unfair, after we gave four solid months, that we would be expected to continue editing in such a toxic environment, or that our time should be devalued, or that we should now be expected to ALSO give up our summers, at a time when we may be released from stay-at-home. And this furthers the "exceptional" treatment often granted to one user. No, I do not want to give my entire summer to another attempt to break through a solid wall of IDHT. Please do not postpone this case; that will only continue the misery. <a href="/wiki/User:SandyGeorgia" title="User:SandyGeorgia"><b>Sandy</b><span style="color: green;">Georgia</span></a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:SandyGeorgia" title="User talk:SandyGeorgia">Talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Medicine#c-SandyGeorgia-2020-04-01T17:07:00.000Z-Statement_by_SandyGeorgia" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:07, 1 April 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-SandyGeorgia-2020-04-01T17:07:00.000Z-Statement_by_SandyGeorgia"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-SandyGeorgia-2020-04-01T17:07:00.000Z-Statement_by_SandyGeorgia"></span></li></ul> <dl><dd><ul><li><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-SandyGeorgia-2020-04-01T18:21:00.000Z-SandyGeorgia-2020-04-01T17:07:00.000Z"></span>When summer comes along, and you all are ready to address the case, while I am away at my cabin, are you then going to also allow me an exception, and extend the case until winter, when I have editing time? <a href="/wiki/User:SandyGeorgia" title="User:SandyGeorgia"><b>Sandy</b><span style="color: green;">Georgia</span></a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:SandyGeorgia" title="User talk:SandyGeorgia">Talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Medicine#c-SandyGeorgia-2020-04-01T18:21:00.000Z-SandyGeorgia-2020-04-01T17:07:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:21, 1 April 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-SandyGeorgia-2020-04-01T18:21:00.000Z-SandyGeorgia-2020-04-01T17:07:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-SandyGeorgia-2020-04-01T18:21:00.000Z-SandyGeorgia-2020-04-01T17:07:00.000Z"></span></li></ul></dd></dl> <ul><li><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-SandyGeorgia-2020-04-01T17:19:00.000Z-SandyGeorgia-2020-04-01T17:07:00.000Z"></span>Also, <a href="/wiki/User:DGG" title="User:DGG">DGG</a> could we get an arb injunction now on James' RFC's, because the same tactics could affect coronavirus content (don't discuss adequately, "ok, I'll start an RFC", we'll have a quick !vote in which certain parties are guaranteed to show with a "per Doc James" !vote, stifling discussion and consensus building). <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:2019%E2%80%9320_coronavirus_pandemic/Archive_22#RfC_on_the_sources_we_can_use_to_support_numbers_of_cases">This is a sample: who has ever heard of a consensus approach that says "Any source that gets more than 50% support can be used"</a>? <div class="paragraphbreak" style="margin-top:0.5em"></div>And "as we speak", James is editwarring/owning his inappropriate RFC at <a href="/wiki/Talk:Simvastatin" title="Talk:Simvastatin">Talk:Simvastatin</a>. <a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Simvastatin&action=history">[32]</a> <a href="/wiki/User:SandyGeorgia" title="User:SandyGeorgia"><b>Sandy</b><span style="color: green;">Georgia</span></a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:SandyGeorgia" title="User talk:SandyGeorgia">Talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Medicine#c-SandyGeorgia-2020-04-01T17:19:00.000Z-SandyGeorgia-2020-04-01T17:07:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:19, 1 April 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-SandyGeorgia-2020-04-01T17:19:00.000Z-SandyGeorgia-2020-04-01T17:07:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-SandyGeorgia-2020-04-01T17:19:00.000Z-SandyGeorgia-2020-04-01T17:07:00.000Z"></span></li></ul> <dl><dd><dl><dd><span class="template-ping"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-SandyGeorgia-2020-04-04T18:18:00.000Z-SandyGeorgia-2020-04-01T17:19:00.000Z"></span>@<a href="/wiki/User:Beeblebrox" class="mw-redirect" title="User:Beeblebrox">Beeblebrox</a>:</span> the reasons this cannot be solved by motion are too extensive to explain in a 500-word limit. Any kind of motion to stop the impediments to dispute resolution will not address the bigger picture, which is long-standing issues due to non-en.wikipedia factors dominating en.Wikipedia dispute resolution processes and content. <a href="/wiki/User:SandyGeorgia" title="User:SandyGeorgia"><b>Sandy</b><span style="color: green;">Georgia</span></a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:SandyGeorgia" title="User talk:SandyGeorgia">Talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Medicine#c-SandyGeorgia-2020-04-04T18:18:00.000Z-SandyGeorgia-2020-04-01T17:19:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:18, 4 April 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-SandyGeorgia-2020-04-04T18:18:00.000Z-SandyGeorgia-2020-04-01T17:19:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-SandyGeorgia-2020-04-04T18:18:00.000Z-SandyGeorgia-2020-04-01T17:19:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl> <span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Guerillero-2020-04-07T19:05:00.000Z-Statement_by_SandyGeorgia"></span><style data-mw-deduplicate="TemplateStyles:r1256395271">.mw-parser-output .hidden-archive{box-sizing:border-box;border:1px solid #a2a9b1;width:100%;clear:both;text-align:center;padding:1px;margin:0.2em auto 0;font-size:100%}.mw-parser-output .hat-header{padding:0.25em 1em;line-height:1.5em;text-align:center;background-color:#f2dfce;color:inherit}.mw-parser-output .hat-content{border:solid 1px silver;padding:8px;background-color:#fff4f2;color:inherit;text-align:left}@media screen{html.skin-theme-clientpref-night .mw-parser-output .hat-header{background-color:#492b13}html.skin-theme-clientpref-night .mw-parser-output .hat-content{background-color:#391c19}}@media screen and (prefers-color-scheme:dark){html.skin-theme-clientpref-os .mw-parser-output .hat-header{background-color:#492b13}html.skin-theme-clientpref-os .mw-parser-output .hat-content{background-color:#391c19}}</style> <table class="hidden-archive mw-collapsible mw-archivedtalk mw-collapsed"> <tbody><tr> <th class="hat-header">Back and forth about SandyGeorgia's request for DGG's recusal.<br/><br/>DGG has refused to recuse. The next step is for SandyGeorgia to email arbcom-l to "<span class="example" style="font-family: Georgia, 'DejaVu Serif', serif; color: var(--color-content-added, #006400);">refer the request to the Committee for a ruling</span>" if she would like to appeal DGG's refusal. --<a href="/wiki/User:Guerillero" title="User:Guerillero"><span style="color: #0b0080">Guerillero</span></a> | <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Guerillero" title="User talk:Guerillero"><span style="color: green;">Parlez Moi</span></a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Medicine#c-Guerillero-2020-04-07T19:05:00.000Z-Statement_by_SandyGeorgia" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:05, 7 April 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Guerillero-2020-04-07T19:05:00.000Z-Statement_by_SandyGeorgia"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Guerillero-2020-04-07T19:05:00.000Z-Statement_by_SandyGeorgia"></span> </th></tr> <tr> <td style="font-style:italic;"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-SandyGeorgia-2020-04-06T17:18:00.000Z-Statement_by_SandyGeorgia"></span>The following discussion has been closed. <span style="color:var(--color-error, red);"><b>Please do not modify it.</b></span> </td></tr> <tr> <td class="hat-content"> <dl><dd><b>Note to arbs</b>: Per <a class="external text" href="https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wiki_Project_Med/Membership#Membership_current_until_Dec_31st_2020">this list (which I just discovered)</a>, I request the recusal of <a href="/wiki/User:DGG" title="User:DGG">DGG</a>, as part of a core issue of the central dispute. Secondary to the core dispute is DGG's recusal in the Jytdog case, as issues there are also relevant here. <a href="/wiki/User:SandyGeorgia" title="User:SandyGeorgia"><b>Sandy</b><span style="color: green;">Georgia</span></a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:SandyGeorgia" title="User talk:SandyGeorgia">Talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Medicine#c-SandyGeorgia-2020-04-06T17:18:00.000Z-Statement_by_SandyGeorgia" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:18, 6 April 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-SandyGeorgia-2020-04-06T17:18:00.000Z-Statement_by_SandyGeorgia"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-SandyGeorgia-2020-04-06T17:18:00.000Z-Statement_by_SandyGeorgia"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-DGG-2020-04-07T00:51:00.000Z-SandyGeorgia-2020-04-06T17:18:00.000Z"></span>. I am certainly not going to recuse here. I gave a single comment about the timing--I can see both sides of that, and I am not sure I have the same opinion I did at the first, partly because I realize, as do you, that COVID will be a long extended situation. I am a member of Project Med, as are many other people. The project consists of those interested in the subject of improving medical content in Wikipedia, not of only those who take a particular approach to it. <b><a href="/wiki/User:DGG" title="User:DGG"> DGG</a></b> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:DGG" title="User talk:DGG"> talk </a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Medicine#c-DGG-2020-04-07T00:51:00.000Z-SandyGeorgia-2020-04-06T17:18:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:51, 7 April 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-DGG-2020-04-07T00:51:00.000Z-SandyGeorgia-2020-04-06T17:18:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-DGG-2020-04-07T00:51:00.000Z-SandyGeorgia-2020-04-06T17:18:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><a href="/wiki/User:DGG" title="User:DGG"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-SandyGeorgia-2020-04-07T01:18:00.000Z-DGG-2020-04-07T00:51:00.000Z"></span>DGG</a> Just to be clear that you understood the link I gave and the question I raise: that is not a member list for <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:MED" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:MED">Wikipedia:Wikiproject Medicine</a> (WP:MED); it is the separate <a class="external text" href="https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wiki_Project_Med">Wiki Project Med Foundation</a> (WPMEDF), which has its own <a class="external text" href="https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wiki_Project_Med/Board">governing board</a> and <a class="external text" href="https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wiki_Project_Med/Bylaws">bylaws</a> and its own external-to-en.Wikipedia <a class="external text" href="https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wiki_Project_Med/Projects">projects, aims, applications and interests</a>. That Foundation is a key part of the WP:MED tension (I have highlighted a word in my original statement for clarity), because the aims of that Project, and some of its members, are frequently at odds with Wikipedia policies and guidelines. There is separately, also, your recusal on the Jytdog case; an editor who is also part of this dispute. <a href="/wiki/User:SandyGeorgia" title="User:SandyGeorgia"><b>Sandy</b><span style="color: green;">Georgia</span></a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:SandyGeorgia" title="User talk:SandyGeorgia">Talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Medicine#c-SandyGeorgia-2020-04-07T01:18:00.000Z-DGG-2020-04-07T00:51:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:18, 7 April 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-SandyGeorgia-2020-04-07T01:18:00.000Z-DGG-2020-04-07T00:51:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-SandyGeorgia-2020-04-07T01:18:00.000Z-DGG-2020-04-07T00:51:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-DGG-2020-04-07T04:24:00.000Z-SandyGeorgia-2020-04-07T01:18:00.000Z"></span>Yes; I'm a member.; I do not consider its aims incompatible with WP, though some of them would be inappropriate on Wikipedia; for example, some of its advocacy. This does not imply I agree with everything all of its members do, any more than my being a member of arb com implies I automatically agree with every decision it makes, let alone everything any of its other people say. There is nothing likely to occur in this case with respect to jytdog for which I need to recuse; I recused in the jytdog case because I thought I might want to testify, though in the end I decided not to. <b><a href="/wiki/User:DGG" title="User:DGG"> DGG</a></b> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:DGG" title="User talk:DGG"> talk </a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Medicine#c-DGG-2020-04-07T04:24:00.000Z-SandyGeorgia-2020-04-07T01:18:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">04:24, 7 April 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-DGG-2020-04-07T04:24:00.000Z-SandyGeorgia-2020-04-07T01:18:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-DGG-2020-04-07T04:24:00.000Z-SandyGeorgia-2020-04-07T01:18:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span class="template-ping"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-SandyGeorgia-2020-04-07T15:31:00.000Z-DGG-2020-04-07T04:24:00.000Z"></span>@<a href="/wiki/User:DGG" title="User:DGG">DGG</a>:</span> thank you for the response regarding Jytdog, which I understand and accept. But regarding WPMEDF, I hope you will reconsider, as it is an <a class="external text" href="https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wiki_Project_Med/Projects#Advocacy_and_policy">advocacy organization</a> and the use of Wikipedia-- at times and by some members in breach of core policies and guidelines-- to advance external aims are the core of this dispute, of which drug advocacy is only the latest of many issues. Examining the effect of this organization's advocacy on editors, content, and the deteriorating WP:MED situation <i>is</i> an important feature of what this dispute and case is about. <a href="/wiki/User:SandyGeorgia" title="User:SandyGeorgia"><b>Sandy</b><span style="color: green;">Georgia</span></a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:SandyGeorgia" title="User talk:SandyGeorgia">Talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Medicine#c-SandyGeorgia-2020-04-07T15:31:00.000Z-DGG-2020-04-07T04:24:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:31, 7 April 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-SandyGeorgia-2020-04-07T15:31:00.000Z-DGG-2020-04-07T04:24:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-SandyGeorgia-2020-04-07T15:31:00.000Z-DGG-2020-04-07T04:24:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-DGG-2020-04-07T18:56:00.000Z-SandyGeorgia-2020-04-06T17:18:00.000Z"></span>If you think the aims of WP and WPMEDF incompatible, I will certainly listen to your argument.<b><a href="/wiki/User:DGG" title="User:DGG"> DGG</a></b> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:DGG" title="User talk:DGG"> talk </a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Medicine#c-DGG-2020-04-07T18:56:00.000Z-SandyGeorgia-2020-04-06T17:18:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:56, 7 April 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-DGG-2020-04-07T18:56:00.000Z-SandyGeorgia-2020-04-06T17:18:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-DGG-2020-04-07T18:56:00.000Z-SandyGeorgia-2020-04-06T17:18:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl> </td></tr></tbody></table> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading3"><h3 id="Statement_by_Seraphimblade" data-mw-thread-id="h-Statement_by_Seraphimblade-Preliminary_statements-2020-03-31T04:33:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Statement_by_Seraphimblade-Preliminary_statements-2020-03-31T04:33:00.000Z"></span>Statement by Seraphimblade<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Statement_by_Seraphimblade-Preliminary_statements-2020-03-31T04:33:00.000Z"></span></h3><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Medicine&action=edit&section=10" title="Edit section: Statement by Seraphimblade"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Seraphimblade-2020-03-31T04:33:00.000Z-Statement_by_Seraphimblade"></span>A lengthy RfC was just concluded a couple of days ago. However, its effects are substantial and apparently still in some cases unclear, so that is still being sorted. Since that is at heart a content matter, I do not see how arbitration will be anything but an impediment to that process. <a href="/wiki/User:Seraphimblade" title="User:Seraphimblade">Seraphimblade</a> <small><sup><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Seraphimblade" title="User talk:Seraphimblade">Talk to me</a></sup></small> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Medicine#c-Seraphimblade-2020-03-31T04:33:00.000Z-Statement_by_Seraphimblade" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">04:33, 31 March 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Seraphimblade-2020-03-31T04:33:00.000Z-Statement_by_Seraphimblade"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Seraphimblade-2020-03-31T04:33:00.000Z-Statement_by_Seraphimblade"></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading3"><h3 id="Statement_by_WhatamIdoing" data-mw-thread-id="h-Statement_by_WhatamIdoing-Preliminary_statements-2020-04-01T16:26:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Statement_by_WhatamIdoing-Preliminary_statements-2020-04-01T16:26:00.000Z"></span>Statement by WhatamIdoing<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Statement_by_WhatamIdoing-Preliminary_statements-2020-04-01T16:26:00.000Z"></span></h3><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Medicine&action=edit&section=11" title="Edit section: Statement by WhatamIdoing"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span></div> <p><b><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-WhatamIdoing-2020-04-01T16:26:00.000Z-Statement_by_WhatamIdoing"></span>Timing:</b> Some of us apparently have time to edit-war and to start multiple RFCs to try to vote against the RFC, so we have time to talk about it. </p><p><b>Whether we should be here yet:</b> I don't think so. If you look at Doc James' comment here, which mentions only the first of the 10 sentences in the closing statement, and his recent editing, which does seem to mostly ignore the other nine sentences, I think it shows how this might be solvable without ArbCom's intervention. This would require a few hours from <a href="/wiki/User:Wugapodes" title="User:Wugapodes">User:Wugapodes</a> and <a href="/wiki/User:Ymblanter" title="User:Ymblanter">User:Ymblanter</a> to re-write the closing statement in <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:BRADSPEAK" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:BRADSPEAK">WP:BRADSPEAK</a>, as a list of required or prohibited statements. For example, it could be re-written something like this (NB purely an example of style, not real content): </p> <table class="wikitable sortable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"> <tbody><tr> <th>Original first bullet point</th> <th>Potentially clearer version </th></tr> <tr> <td style="vertical-align: top;"> <ul><li>Editors are generally opposed to inclusion of prices in the lede. While basic calculations are not considered <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:OR" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:OR">original research</a>, the pricing statements in the examples require interpretation of primary sources that may not be straightforward. This makes the editorial claims difficult to <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:V" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:V">verify</a>, and especially so for drugs whose prices are not widely discussed in published sources. In addition, there are concerns that proper explanation of the situation for the indicated price would give the price <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WEIGHT" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:WEIGHT">undue weight</a>.</li></ul> </td> <td> <ol><li><b>Content of the lede:</b> <ul><li>Drug prices may not be mentioned in the lede in most articles about drugs. Prices may be mentioned in the lede only under exceptional circumstances, such as an especially high price or claims of price gouging. For the avoidance of doubt, "exceptional circumstances" are likely to be present in less than 10% of drug articles.</li> <li>Prices may not be mentioned in the lede unless the price is already discussed in significantly greater detail in the body of the article.</li></ul></li> <li><b>Use of MSH's <a href="/wiki/International_Medical_Products_Price_Guide" title="International Medical Products Price Guide">International Medical Products Price Guide</a> database:</b> Remove all uses of this database. There is a clear consensus that using this complex, primary-source drug price database requires interpretation by Wikipedia editors that is not straightforward, and therefore using that source is not permitted under the core content policies. The good-faith attempt to use it has led to widespread WP:V, WP:OR, and WP:NOTPRICE violations. Using it accurately would require a lengthy description in articles, which would result in WP:WEIGHT violations. Editors therefore may not use the IMPPG database to support drug price content in any article. <ul><li>Editors may, however, cite other reliable sources that use this database.</li></ul></li></ol> </td></tr></tbody></table> <p>The end result would be long, but it would make it easier for editors to understand what to do, and it would clear up theconfusion about whether the deprecated database can be "redeemed" by adding another sentence that's cited to a NOTPRICE-compliant source. </p><p><b>The level of confusion:</b> I particularly hope that ArbCom members will look at <a href="/wiki/Talk:Simvastatin#In_depth_discussion" title="Talk:Simvastatin">this short discussion</a>. The relevant facts are: </p> <ul><li>The second sentence from the RFC conclusion is "While basic calculations are not considered <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:OR" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:OR">original research</a>, the pricing statements in the examples [i.e., content sourced to the IMPPG database] require interpretation of primary sources that may not be straightforward."</li> <li><a href="/wiki/Simvastatin" title="Simvastatin">Simvastatin</a> had a sentence sourced to the IMPPG. As it's not allowed per the second sentence, I removed it.</li> <li>Doc James restored it because he didn't think that picking and choosing which parts of which database records we took the content from counted as "interpretation" of the database. The discussion at <a href="/wiki/Talk:Simvastatin#In_depth_discussion" title="Talk:Simvastatin">Talk:Simvastatin#In depth discussion</a> is me listing off all the interpretations he made (plus one outright error).</li></ul> <p>That's where we are right now. Aside from perhaps lending their moral weight to say that the outcome really is the outcome, I think ArbCom's intervention will be less useful than expanding the RFC closing statement. <a href="/wiki/User:WhatamIdoing" title="User:WhatamIdoing">WhatamIdoing</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:WhatamIdoing" title="User talk:WhatamIdoing">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Medicine#c-WhatamIdoing-2020-04-01T16:26:00.000Z-Statement_by_WhatamIdoing" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:26, 1 April 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-WhatamIdoing-2020-04-01T16:26:00.000Z-Statement_by_WhatamIdoing"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-WhatamIdoing-2020-04-01T16:26:00.000Z-Statement_by_WhatamIdoing"></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading3"><h3 id="Statement_by_AlmostFrancis" data-mw-thread-id="h-Statement_by_AlmostFrancis-Preliminary_statements-2020-04-06T02:29:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Statement_by_AlmostFrancis-Preliminary_statements-2020-04-06T02:29:00.000Z"></span>Statement by AlmostFrancis<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Statement_by_AlmostFrancis-Preliminary_statements-2020-04-06T02:29:00.000Z"></span></h3><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Medicine&action=edit&section=12" title="Edit section: Statement by AlmostFrancis"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-AlmostFrancis-2020-04-06T02:29:00.000Z-Statement_by_AlmostFrancis"></span>It looks like this will be accepted but I would ask the arbitrators to really think how they would explain this to people indifferent to the inner workings of Wikipedia. You have decided to take the time of an ER doctor in the middle of a pandemic who happens to spend his free time updating the world on the ongoing pandemic, which they do without pay. The only reason there has not been an article in the press on this is because the ER Doc happens to care more about Wikipedia than his own well being. I implore you in every possible way to accept this case if you feel it is necessary but to delay it until August. Pass whatever temp content ban you need. As someone who spends little time on Wikipedia I implore you to consider how working against a pandemic will cause real harm to actual people. Sorry it has come to this and I wish you and your families well. <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:AlmostFrancis&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:AlmostFrancis (page does not exist)">AlmostFrancis</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:AlmostFrancis" title="User talk:AlmostFrancis">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Medicine#c-AlmostFrancis-2020-04-06T02:29:00.000Z-Statement_by_AlmostFrancis" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:29, 6 April 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-AlmostFrancis-2020-04-06T02:29:00.000Z-Statement_by_AlmostFrancis"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-AlmostFrancis-2020-04-06T02:29:00.000Z-Statement_by_AlmostFrancis"></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading3"><h3 id="Statement_by_Avicenno" data-mw-thread-id="h-Statement_by_Avicenno-Preliminary_statements"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Statement_by_Avicenno-Preliminary_statements"></span>Statement by Avicenno<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Statement_by_Avicenno-Preliminary_statements"></span></h3><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Medicine&action=edit&section=13" title="Edit section: Statement by Avicenno"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span></div> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading3"><h3 id="Statement_by_bluerasberry" data-mw-thread-id="h-Statement_by_bluerasberry-Preliminary_statements-2020-03-31T13:21:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Statement_by_bluerasberry-Preliminary_statements-2020-03-31T13:21:00.000Z"></span>Statement by bluerasberry<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Statement_by_bluerasberry-Preliminary_statements-2020-03-31T13:21:00.000Z"></span></h3><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Medicine&action=edit&section=14" title="Edit section: Statement by bluerasberry"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Bluerasberry-2020-03-31T13:21:00.000Z-Statement_by_bluerasberry"></span>I would like to request delay on this topic until further notice due to COVID-19. This issue concerns WikiProject Medicine and the focus of that project right now is COVID-19. The primary outcome of this issue being discussed anywhere will be distraction from developing COVID-19 content. The matter of price is not urgent and has been pending for years. No harm comes from postponement. <a href="/wiki/User:Bluerasberry" title="User:Bluerasberry"><span style="background:#cedff2;color:#11e"><b> Blue Rasberry </b></span></a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Bluerasberry" title="User talk:Bluerasberry"><span style="background:#cedff2;color:#11e">(talk)</span></a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Medicine#c-Bluerasberry-2020-03-31T13:21:00.000Z-Statement_by_bluerasberry" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">13:21, 31 March 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Bluerasberry-2020-03-31T13:21:00.000Z-Statement_by_bluerasberry"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Bluerasberry-2020-03-31T13:21:00.000Z-Statement_by_bluerasberry"></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading3"><h3 id="Statement_by_CFCF" data-mw-thread-id="h-Statement_by_CFCF-Preliminary_statements-2020-04-01T14:45:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Statement_by_CFCF-Preliminary_statements-2020-04-01T14:45:00.000Z"></span>Statement by CFCF<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Statement_by_CFCF-Preliminary_statements-2020-04-01T14:45:00.000Z"></span></h3><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Medicine&action=edit&section=15" title="Edit section: Statement by CFCF"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span></div> <p><s><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-CFCF-2020-04-01T14:45:00.000Z-Statement_by_CFCF"></span>I will request <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Courtesy_vanishing" title="Wikipedia:Courtesy vanishing">Wikipedia:Courtesy vanishing</a>. I no longer have the time or energy to edit Wikipedia. <a href="/wiki/User:CFCF" class="mw-redirect" title="User:CFCF"><span style="color:#014225;font-family: sans-serif;background:#D0F0C0"><b>Carl Fredrik</b></span></a><span style="font-size: .90em;"><a href="/wiki/User_talk:CFCF" title="User talk:CFCF"><sup> talk</sup></a></span> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Medicine#c-CFCF-2020-04-01T14:45:00.000Z-Statement_by_CFCF" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">14:45, 1 April 2020 (UTC)</a></s><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-CFCF-2020-04-01T14:45:00.000Z-Statement_by_CFCF"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-CFCF-2020-04-01T14:45:00.000Z-Statement_by_CFCF"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-CFCF-2020-04-03T18:45:00.000Z-CFCF-2020-04-01T14:45:00.000Z"></span>I have taken a few days to rethink. My hospital is operating at 200% ICU capacity, soon to open an exhibition hall south of Stockholm with 1000+ beds. I have offered my help from March 16 ahead of the predicted peak. This is a stressful time for me — in which I had planned to prepare by getting some COVID-19 editing done. I anticipate not being able to edit soon.</dd></dl> <dl><dd>In the newly opened WT:MED discussion I indicated that the current timing might cause systematic bias and potentially lead to incomplete consensus. I asked Colin and others to proceed with caution, preferably delaying much needed discussion. I was castigated by SandyGeorgia for "personalizing",<span class="plainlinks"><a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=&diff=prev&oldid=947987807">[33]</a></span> with Colin expressing: <style data-mw-deduplicate="TemplateStyles:r1248585704">@media screen{html.skin-theme-clientpref-night .mw-parser-output .inline-quote-talk{color:#00B785}}@media screen and (prefers-color-scheme:dark){html.skin-theme-clientpref-os .mw-parser-output .inline-quote-talk{color:#00B785}}.mw-parser-output .inline-quote-talk{font-family:Georgia,"DejaVu Serif",serif;color:#008560;quotes:none}.mw-parser-output .inline-quote-talk-italic{font-family:inherit;font-style:italic}.mw-parser-output .inline-quote-talk-marks{quotes:"\"""\""}</style><q class="inline-quote-talk">Carl, it is clear what you are doing here. Get over it, move on. I do not intend to discuss the matter further with you.</q><span class="plainlinks"><a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=&diff=prev&oldid=947950623">[34]</a></span></dd> <dd>If ArbCom chooses to take this up, I will likely not take part, but would hope for a broad scope.</dd> <dd><a href="/wiki/User:CFCF" class="mw-redirect" title="User:CFCF"><span style="color:#014225;font-family: sans-serif;background:#D0F0C0"><b>Carl Fredrik</b></span></a><span style="font-size: .90em;"><a href="/wiki/User_talk:CFCF" title="User talk:CFCF"><sup> talk</sup></a></span> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Medicine#c-CFCF-2020-04-03T18:45:00.000Z-CFCF-2020-04-01T14:45:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:45, 3 April 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-CFCF-2020-04-03T18:45:00.000Z-CFCF-2020-04-01T14:45:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-CFCF-2020-04-03T18:45:00.000Z-CFCF-2020-04-01T14:45:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading3"><h3 id="Statement_by_Hipal/Ronz" data-mw-thread-id="h-Statement_by_Hipal/Ronz-Preliminary_statements-2020-03-31T17:44:00.000Z"><span id="Statement_by_Hipal.2FRonz"></span><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Statement_by_Hipal/Ronz-Preliminary_statements-2020-03-31T17:44:00.000Z"></span>Statement by Hipal/Ronz<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Statement_by_Hipal/Ronz-Preliminary_statements-2020-03-31T17:44:00.000Z"></span></h3><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Medicine&action=edit&section=16" title="Edit section: Statement by Hipal/Ronz"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Hipal-2020-03-31T17:44:00.000Z-Statement_by_Hipal/Ronz"></span><link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1248585704"><q class="inline-quote-talk">I'm stunned by the behavior I've been seeing related to pricing across Wikipedia in order to support some sort of broad exception to content policies. It needs to stop, but it appears ArbCom is the only way it's going to.</q><a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Incidents&diff=prev&oldid=929331119">[35]</a> --<a href="/wiki/User:Hipal" title="User:Hipal">Hipal/Ronz</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Hipal" title="User talk:Hipal">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Medicine#c-Hipal-2020-03-31T17:44:00.000Z-Statement_by_Hipal/Ronz" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:44, 31 March 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Hipal-2020-03-31T17:44:00.000Z-Statement_by_Hipal/Ronz"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Hipal-2020-03-31T17:44:00.000Z-Statement_by_Hipal/Ronz"></span> </p><p><span class="template-ping"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Hipal-2020-03-31T20:19:00.000Z-Statement_by_Hipal/Ronz"></span>@<a href="/wiki/User:DGG" title="User:DGG">DGG</a>:</span> I believe editors are ignoring and misrepresenting the results of the RfC (even in this Case page) in order to continue to push article content against consensus and policy, including pricing content in the lede of articles. --<a href="/wiki/User:Hipal" title="User:Hipal">Hipal/Ronz</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Hipal" title="User talk:Hipal">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Medicine#c-Hipal-2020-03-31T20:19:00.000Z-Statement_by_Hipal/Ronz" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:19, 31 March 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Hipal-2020-03-31T20:19:00.000Z-Statement_by_Hipal/Ronz"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Hipal-2020-03-31T20:19:00.000Z-Statement_by_Hipal/Ronz"></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading3"><h3 id="Statement_by_Ozzie10aaaa" data-mw-thread-id="h-Statement_by_Ozzie10aaaa-Preliminary_statements-2020-04-01T15:48:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Statement_by_Ozzie10aaaa-Preliminary_statements-2020-04-01T15:48:00.000Z"></span>Statement by Ozzie10aaaa<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Statement_by_Ozzie10aaaa-Preliminary_statements-2020-04-01T15:48:00.000Z"></span></h3><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Medicine&action=edit&section=17" title="Edit section: Statement by Ozzie10aaaa"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Ozzie10aaaa-2020-04-01T15:48:00.000Z-Statement_by_Ozzie10aaaa"></span>I would indicate the wise statement from Blue Rasberry <i>would like to request delay on this topic until further notice due to COVID-19. This issue concerns WikiProject Medicine and the focus of that project right now is COVID-19. The primary outcome of this issue being discussed anywhere will be distraction from developing COVID-19 content.</i>....I thank you for your time--<a href="/wiki/User:Ozzie10aaaa" title="User:Ozzie10aaaa">Ozzie10aaaa</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Ozzie10aaaa" title="User talk:Ozzie10aaaa">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Medicine#c-Ozzie10aaaa-2020-04-01T15:48:00.000Z-Statement_by_Ozzie10aaaa" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:48, 1 April 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Ozzie10aaaa-2020-04-01T15:48:00.000Z-Statement_by_Ozzie10aaaa"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Ozzie10aaaa-2020-04-01T15:48:00.000Z-Statement_by_Ozzie10aaaa"></span> </p><p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Ozzie10aaaa-2020-04-02T13:43:00.000Z-Statement_by_Ozzie10aaaa"></span>(With regard to Colin's indication ...I <i>agree w/ Doc James</i>, it should be checked in my edits that 1. I have on several occasions <i>"agree w/ WAID [WhatAmIDoing]"</i> (on other articles/matters) , 2. as well as many other editors...I don't/never will write a "wall of text", I usually keep it simple, 3. and most important I don't always agree w/ Doc James, therefore I do not support<a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Template_talk:2019%E2%80%9320_coronavirus_pandemic&diff=943709269&oldid=943687979">[36]</a>/do not comment on the article/matter whatever it might be, thank you--<a href="/wiki/User:Ozzie10aaaa" title="User:Ozzie10aaaa">Ozzie10aaaa</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Ozzie10aaaa" title="User talk:Ozzie10aaaa">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Medicine#c-Ozzie10aaaa-2020-04-02T13:43:00.000Z-Statement_by_Ozzie10aaaa" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">13:43, 2 April 2020 (UTC)</a>)<span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Ozzie10aaaa-2020-04-02T13:43:00.000Z-Statement_by_Ozzie10aaaa"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Ozzie10aaaa-2020-04-02T13:43:00.000Z-Statement_by_Ozzie10aaaa"></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading3"><h3 id="Statement_by_RexxS" data-mw-thread-id="h-Statement_by_RexxS-Preliminary_statements-2020-04-01T17:26:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Statement_by_RexxS-Preliminary_statements-2020-04-01T17:26:00.000Z"></span>Statement by RexxS<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Statement_by_RexxS-Preliminary_statements-2020-04-01T17:26:00.000Z"></span></h3><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Medicine&action=edit&section=18" title="Edit section: Statement by RexxS"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-RexxS-2020-04-01T17:26:00.000Z-Statement_by_RexxS"></span>I was involved in a lot of the discussion and prior to the RfC, and had several unpleasant arguments with <a href="/wiki/User:Colin" title="User:Colin">Colin</a> as usual. I wasn't happy with the leading nature of the RfC questions, which invited a particular conclusion. However, the RfC started when I was busy with other things, and by the time I had time to look at the RfC, I found that Colin was bludgeoning editors who opposed his proposal as usual, and I didn't feel I had the time for the usual back-and-forth that everybody who disagrees with Colin has to go through. I see that the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style/Medicine-related_articles/RFC_on_pharmaceutical_drug_prices" title="Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Medicine-related articles/RFC on pharmaceutical drug prices">RfC concluded with 40 comments from Colin</a>. </p><p>As for the immediate complaint, like many other medical editors, I think that the cost of a drug (or range of costs) is an encyclopedic fact. The reason that <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:NOT" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:NOT">WP:NOT</a> mentions prices is to avoid the encyclopedia being turned into a series of adverts where "Acme widgets at $4.95" are being touted as cheaper than "Vanilla widgets at $5.00". It is not meant as a weapon to suppress valid reader interest in what drugs might actually cost to purchase, either wholesale or retail. Of course, we need quality sources to support any factual claim in an encyclopedia, but once we have prices being discussed in reliable independent sources, we should be able to incorporate those discussions into Wikipedia. </p><p> The second bullet point in the close of the RfC states <style data-mw-deduplicate="TemplateStyles:r1237805129">.mw-parser-output .talkquote{color:var(--color-base,#202122);background-color:#eaf8f4;border-left:3px solid #008560;padding:0 .8em;margin:0}.mw-parser-output .talkquote-by,.mw-parser-output .talkquote-source{margin-left:1.6em}.mw-parser-output .skin-vector-2022 .talkquote>:last-child{padding-bottom:0}@media screen{html.skin-theme-clientpref-night .mw-parser-output .talkquote{background-color:#0d261f}}@media screen and (prefers-color-scheme:dark){html.skin-theme-clientpref-os .mw-parser-output .talkquote{background-color:#0d261f}}</style></p><blockquote class="talkquote"><p>There is no consensus on whether drug prices should be included in articles at all. Where secondary sources discuss pricing extensively (insulin being a frequently cited example), that information may be worth including in the article; where there is little discussion of pricing in secondary sources, it generally should not be included. Drugs which fall into the grey area between these extremes should be discussed on a case-by-case basis. Where pricing information is included, claims should be sourced to reliable, secondary sources and not solely primary source data from price databases.</p></blockquote><p> and that's where the contention continues. James and Colin have very different interpretations of "information may be worth including", "discussed on a case-by-case basis" and "should be sourced to reliable, secondary sources". The understanding of what those mean in particular cases needs to be established by consensus at affected articles, and any request for arbitration should not be undertaken until those consensuses have been established. You only have to look at <span class="plainlinks"><a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=&oldid=948548809#Clarification_of_RfC">Talk:Simvastatin</a></span> to see how even innocuous statements like "Simvastatin is relatively low cost" are being challenged by editors wanting to remove all discussion of pricing. Those sort of content issues need to be resolved first. </p><p>Unless ArbCom want to rule on content and clarify in detail the meaning of the RfC closure, I contend that there's nothing behavioural that is ripe for arbitration at present. --<a href="/wiki/User:RexxS" title="User:RexxS">RexxS</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:RexxS" title="User talk:RexxS">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Medicine#c-RexxS-2020-04-01T17:26:00.000Z-Statement_by_RexxS" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:26, 1 April 2020 (UTC)</a> <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1256395271"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-RexxS-2020-04-01T17:26:00.000Z-Statement_by_RexxS"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-RexxS-2020-04-01T17:26:00.000Z-Statement_by_RexxS"></span> </p> <table class="hidden-archive mw-collapsible mw-archivedtalk mw-collapsed"> <tbody><tr> <th class="hat-header">Preliminary statements by uninvolved editors. </th></tr> <tr> <td style="font-style:italic;">The following discussion has been closed. <span style="color:var(--color-error, red);"><b>Please do not modify it.</b></span> </td></tr> <tr> <td class="hat-content"> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading3"><h3 id="Statement_by_Levivich" data-mw-thread-id="h-Statement_by_Levivich-Preliminary_statements-2020-03-31T05:53:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Statement_by_Levivich-Preliminary_statements-2020-03-31T05:53:00.000Z"></span>Statement by Levivich<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Statement_by_Levivich-Preliminary_statements-2020-03-31T05:53:00.000Z"></span></h3><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Medicine&action=edit&section=19" title="Edit section: Statement by Levivich"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Levivich-2020-03-31T05:53:00.000Z-Statement_by_Levivich"></span>When a "coronavirus drug" is made, it will be sold around the world at different prices, and the disruption around pharmaceutical pricing will visit articles that have 1,000+ editors. It would be good to get ahead of it. A motion in lieu of a full case would reduce the demand on editor time. <a href="/wiki/User:Levivich" title="User:Levivich">Levivich</a> <sup style="white-space:nowrap;">[<i><a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Levivich" title="Special:Contributions/Levivich">dubious</a> – <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Levivich" title="User talk:Levivich">discuss</a></i>]</sup> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Medicine#c-Levivich-2020-03-31T05:53:00.000Z-Statement_by_Levivich" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">05:53, 31 March 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Levivich-2020-03-31T05:53:00.000Z-Statement_by_Levivich"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Levivich-2020-03-31T05:53:00.000Z-Statement_by_Levivich"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span class="template-ping"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Levivich-2020-03-31T14:45:00.000Z-Levivich-2020-03-31T05:53:00.000Z"></span>@<a href="/wiki/User:Newyorkbrad" title="User:Newyorkbrad">Newyorkbrad</a>:</span> I would ask the editors and admin who are more heavily involved than I about specific remedies, but options that come to mind are a sourcing restriction (perhaps enforcing the recent RFC result through a sourcing restriction, or passing a broader or narrower sourcing restriction), authorizing DS or other editing restrictions like 1RR, consensus required, or enforced BRD. Possibly suggesting another RFC. Possibly tbanning or otherwise sanctioning editors if there is clear evidence supporting it that wouldn't require a full case to analyze (I'm not sure if this is the case). Currently the community doesn't seem to have the tools available to it, or a process available to it, to resolve content disputes about drug pricing. Edit warring is obviously not the answer, but RFCs don't appear to be resolving the disruption either. For example, does disputed price content stay in or out of the article while an RFC runs? (In per <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:SILENCE" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:SILENCE">WP:SILENCE</a>, or out per <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:ONUS" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:ONUS">WP:ONUS</a>, or second mover advantage per <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:BRD" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:BRD">WP:BRD</a>?) We have no answer to this, hence the edit warring at the articles mentioned in the report. Arbcom can't decide the content dispute but it might be able to quickly lay down some ground rules for this area of conflict. <a href="/wiki/User:Levivich" title="User:Levivich">Levivich</a> <sup style="white-space:nowrap;">[<i><a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Levivich" title="Special:Contributions/Levivich">dubious</a> – <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Levivich" title="User talk:Levivich">discuss</a></i>]</sup> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Medicine#c-Levivich-2020-03-31T14:45:00.000Z-Levivich-2020-03-31T05:53:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">14:45, 31 March 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Levivich-2020-03-31T14:45:00.000Z-Levivich-2020-03-31T05:53:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Levivich-2020-03-31T14:45:00.000Z-Levivich-2020-03-31T05:53:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Levivich-2020-03-31T14:53:00.000Z-Statement_by_Levivich"></span>By the way, regarding "we don't having time for this because of COVID-19", given the edit warring and talk page walls of text surrounding pricing disputes just in the last week, it's obvious that editors <b>do</b> have the time for this, or that it's <b>already</b> distracting from COVID-19 editing. Resolving this will free up editor time, not waste it. It will also free up admin time so they can focus on mopping up at COVID-19 articles instead of mopping up pricing disputes. <a href="/wiki/User:Levivich" title="User:Levivich">Levivich</a> <sup style="white-space:nowrap;">[<i><a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Levivich" title="Special:Contributions/Levivich">dubious</a> – <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Levivich" title="User talk:Levivich">discuss</a></i>]</sup> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Medicine#c-Levivich-2020-03-31T14:53:00.000Z-Statement_by_Levivich" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">14:53, 31 March 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Levivich-2020-03-31T14:53:00.000Z-Statement_by_Levivich"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Levivich-2020-03-31T14:53:00.000Z-Statement_by_Levivich"></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading3"><h3 id="Statement_by_Thryduulf" data-mw-thread-id="h-Statement_by_Thryduulf-Preliminary_statements-2020-03-31T14:22:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Statement_by_Thryduulf-Preliminary_statements-2020-03-31T14:22:00.000Z"></span>Statement by Thryduulf<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Statement_by_Thryduulf-Preliminary_statements-2020-03-31T14:22:00.000Z"></span></h3><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Medicine&action=edit&section=20" title="Edit section: Statement by Thryduulf"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Thryduulf-2020-03-31T14:22:00.000Z-Statement_by_Thryduulf"></span>Just a note that <a href="/wiki/User:QuackGuru" title="User:QuackGuru">QuackGuru</a> is listed as a party to this case but they are currently in the middle of a 3-month arbitration enforcement block (expires 19 May) and so will not be able to participate in this request. The AE block was related to conduct in the e-cigs topic area <a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?diff=941577627&diffmode=source#QuackGuru">[37]</a> and does not at first glance appear to be related to this dispute. <a href="/wiki/User:Thryduulf" title="User:Thryduulf">Thryduulf</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Thryduulf" title="User talk:Thryduulf">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Medicine#c-Thryduulf-2020-03-31T14:22:00.000Z-Statement_by_Thryduulf" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">14:22, 31 March 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Thryduulf-2020-03-31T14:22:00.000Z-Statement_by_Thryduulf"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Thryduulf-2020-03-31T14:22:00.000Z-Statement_by_Thryduulf"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Thryduulf-2020-04-01T12:48:00.000Z-Thryduulf-2020-03-31T14:22:00.000Z"></span>My comment above relates to the narrow "medical pricing" dispute. QG's conduct in the e-cigs area <i>might</i> be relevant if an accepted case has a wider scope. <a href="/wiki/User:Thryduulf" title="User:Thryduulf">Thryduulf</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Thryduulf" title="User talk:Thryduulf">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Medicine#c-Thryduulf-2020-04-01T12:48:00.000Z-Thryduulf-2020-03-31T14:22:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">12:48, 1 April 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Thryduulf-2020-04-01T12:48:00.000Z-Thryduulf-2020-03-31T14:22:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Thryduulf-2020-04-01T12:48:00.000Z-Thryduulf-2020-03-31T14:22:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Thryduulf-2020-04-07T09:14:00.000Z-Statement_by_Thryduulf"></span>Regarding <a href="/wiki/User:DGG" title="User:DGG">DGG</a>, I agree with <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Outriggr&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Outriggr (page does not exist)">Outriggr</a> that <a href="/wiki/User:SandyGeorgia" title="User:SandyGeorgia">SandyGeorgia</a>'s request for recusal is a reasonable one and encourage DGG to reconsider his decision. Being a member of the arbitration committee, an on-wiki group whose goals are unrelated to the specifics of Wikipedia content is a <i>very</i> different matter to being a member of a formal off-wiki organisation whose purpose is directly related to the content of Wikipedia articles at the centre of this dispute. Whatever DGG's views about that organisation, its members or its goals it is important that there be no appearance of a conflict of interest. When I was an arbitrator I recused on matters where Wikimedia UK was tangentially related because of my involvement with that organisation, even though both I and WMUK were much less closely related to the dispute than is the case here. I view this as being the same principle. <a href="/wiki/User:Thryduulf" title="User:Thryduulf">Thryduulf</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Thryduulf" title="User talk:Thryduulf">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Medicine#c-Thryduulf-2020-04-07T09:14:00.000Z-Statement_by_Thryduulf" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">09:14, 7 April 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Thryduulf-2020-04-07T09:14:00.000Z-Statement_by_Thryduulf"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Thryduulf-2020-04-07T09:14:00.000Z-Statement_by_Thryduulf"></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading3"><h3 id="Statement_by_Natureium" data-mw-thread-id="h-Statement_by_Natureium-Preliminary_statements-2020-03-31T15:54:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Statement_by_Natureium-Preliminary_statements-2020-03-31T15:54:00.000Z"></span>Statement by Natureium<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Statement_by_Natureium-Preliminary_statements-2020-03-31T15:54:00.000Z"></span></h3><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Medicine&action=edit&section=21" title="Edit section: Statement by Natureium"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Natureium-2020-03-31T15:54:00.000Z-Statement_by_Natureium"></span>My assumption when I first saw this was that there would be calls for delaying due to coronavirus efforts involving WPMED. However, if there's time to edit war on the involved (non-COVID related) articles, surely there's time for this. <a href="/wiki/User:Natureium" title="User:Natureium">Natureium</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Natureium" title="User talk:Natureium">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Medicine#c-Natureium-2020-03-31T15:54:00.000Z-Statement_by_Natureium" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:54, 31 March 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Natureium-2020-03-31T15:54:00.000Z-Statement_by_Natureium"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Natureium-2020-03-31T15:54:00.000Z-Statement_by_Natureium"></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading3"><h3 id="Statement_by_JzG" data-mw-thread-id="h-Statement_by_JzG-Preliminary_statements-2020-03-31T17:52:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Statement_by_JzG-Preliminary_statements-2020-03-31T17:52:00.000Z"></span>Statement by JzG<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Statement_by_JzG-Preliminary_statements-2020-03-31T17:52:00.000Z"></span></h3><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Medicine&action=edit&section=22" title="Edit section: Statement by JzG"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-JzG-2020-03-31T17:52:00.000Z-Statement_by_JzG"></span>This dispute involves experienced and highly valued contributors who have a fundamental disagreement over what constitutes encyclopaedic coverage of a significant but specific (and geographically variable) facet of content. </p><p>What it <i>needs</i> is for someone to definitively rule one way or the other. If the RfC is taken as being that determination then I guess we can move to enforcement but I suspect what will actually happen is that the the same parties will try to litigate the content issue through Arbitration. I think the claim of COVID-19 as a reason to delay is spurious (though at least one party is an ER doctor), the parties appear still to have plenty of time for edit warring. </p><p>Kudos to Barkeep for trying to fix this festering sore. <b><a href="/wiki/User:JzG" title="User:JzG">Guy</a></b> <small>(<a href="/wiki/User_talk:JzG" title="User talk:JzG">help!</a>)</small> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Medicine#c-JzG-2020-03-31T17:52:00.000Z-Statement_by_JzG" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:52, 31 March 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-JzG-2020-03-31T17:52:00.000Z-Statement_by_JzG"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-JzG-2020-03-31T17:52:00.000Z-Statement_by_JzG"></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading3"><h3 id="Statement_by_Tryptofish" data-mw-thread-id="h-Statement_by_Tryptofish-Preliminary_statements-2020-03-31T22:30:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Statement_by_Tryptofish-Preliminary_statements-2020-03-31T22:30:00.000Z"></span>Statement by Tryptofish<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Statement_by_Tryptofish-Preliminary_statements-2020-03-31T22:30:00.000Z"></span></h3><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Medicine&action=edit&section=23" title="Edit section: Statement by Tryptofish"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Tryptofish-2020-03-31T22:30:00.000Z-Statement_by_Tryptofish"></span>I fear that I will regret making this statement. I've been trying to retire from Wikipedia <i>because of</i> my unhappiness over this very issue, and I would likely not say anything here had I not just made a few Workshop comments in another unrelated case. To my recollection, I've never done any editing about prices on med pages. But I had commented at the ANI discussion that Barkeep links to in his statement, and having done that, I tried to help design the RfC that is also linked to above. And what happened there made me decide that it would be in everyone's best interests for me to separate myself from Wikipedia, and that's what I really want to do. You should decline this case request. You should also expect that a case will in fact be needed a few months from now. The problem is that the community decided at ANI that there should be an RfC that would settle the question of whether or not to have prices on med pages – but the RfC that resulted ended in "no consensus" about the central question. So here you have some editors interpreting the RfC results to mean one thing, and other editors interpreting it to mean the opposite. Before you will be able to evaluate any conduct issues, the community will need to figure out the content issue. (Otherwise, what Guy predicts just above, with parties trying to litigate content through the case, is exactly what will happen.) ArbCom clearly cannot parse "no consensus" into a consensus. So the community needs to try again, to get a consensus where a consensus did not emerge so far. It's very possible to do that, but it will require an RfC that is designed to do so (and please leave me out of it). There will be three possible outcomes: (1) the community will find a consensus that is generally agreed upon, and the dispute will resolve itself, (2) there will be a consensus, but some editors refuse to abide by it, in which case ArbCom will need to act, or (3) editors will not cooperate in creating the RfC, and ArbCom will need to act on <i>that</i>. --<a href="/wiki/User:Tryptofish" title="User:Tryptofish">Tryptofish</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Tryptofish" title="User talk:Tryptofish">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Medicine#c-Tryptofish-2020-03-31T22:30:00.000Z-Statement_by_Tryptofish" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:30, 31 March 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Tryptofish-2020-03-31T22:30:00.000Z-Statement_by_Tryptofish"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Tryptofish-2020-03-31T22:30:00.000Z-Statement_by_Tryptofish"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Tryptofish-2020-04-01T18:41:00.000Z-Tryptofish-2020-03-31T22:30:00.000Z"></span>I want to caution against approaching this case as though the recent RfC yielded a sufficient consensus to fault editors for interpreting it differently. It was very clear during the RfC drafting that many of the editors doing the drafting intended this RfC to be <i>the first of two</i> RfCs, and that it would <i>not</i> resolve the overall issue,<sup>1</sup> just start the process of resolving an array of issues, and that there was disagreement about whether having more than one RfC was a good idea: <a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia_talk:Manual_of_Style/Medicine-related_articles&diff=next&oldid=934357083">[38]</a>, <a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia_talk%3AManual_of_Style%2FMedicine-related_articles&type=revision&diff=934457157&oldid=934456313">[39]</a>, <a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia_talk%3AManual_of_Style%2FMedicine-related_articles&type=revision&diff=934466650&oldid=934465971">[40]</a>, <a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia_talk%3AManual_of_Style%2FMedicine-related_articles&type=revision&diff=934494231&oldid=934493826">[41]</a>, <a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia_talk%3AManual_of_Style%2FMedicine-related_articles&type=revision&diff=934522930&oldid=934522508">[42]</a>. (And, just now, <a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk%3ASimvastatin&type=revision&diff=948555340&oldid=948553807">[43]</a>, <a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk%3ASimvastatin&type=revision&diff=948560769&oldid=948559411">[44]</a>.) And the RfC page actually <i>says</i> that it <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style/Medicine-related_articles/RFC_on_pharmaceutical_drug_prices#Background" title="Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Medicine-related articles/RFC on pharmaceutical drug prices">"is likely that there will be at least one more RFC related to this subject area."</a> --<a href="/wiki/User:Tryptofish" title="User:Tryptofish">Tryptofish</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Tryptofish" title="User talk:Tryptofish">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Medicine#c-Tryptofish-2020-04-01T18:41:00.000Z-Tryptofish-2020-03-31T22:30:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:41, 1 April 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Tryptofish-2020-04-01T18:41:00.000Z-Tryptofish-2020-03-31T22:30:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Tryptofish-2020-04-01T18:41:00.000Z-Tryptofish-2020-03-31T22:30:00.000Z"></span></dd> <dd><sup><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Tryptofish-2020-04-01T19:40:00.000Z-Tryptofish-2020-03-31T22:30:00.000Z"></span>1</sup>Adding: "overall issue" includes whether or not Doc James' approach has consensus. --<a href="/wiki/User:Tryptofish" title="User:Tryptofish">Tryptofish</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Tryptofish" title="User talk:Tryptofish">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Medicine#c-Tryptofish-2020-04-01T19:40:00.000Z-Tryptofish-2020-03-31T22:30:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:40, 1 April 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Tryptofish-2020-04-01T19:40:00.000Z-Tryptofish-2020-03-31T22:30:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Tryptofish-2020-04-01T19:40:00.000Z-Tryptofish-2020-03-31T22:30:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Tryptofish-2020-04-02T19:38:00.000Z-Tryptofish-2020-04-01T19:40:00.000Z"></span>Among the many things that sadden and discourage me, I'm seeing on this page that allegedly Doc James singlehandedly made edits that are supported by almost no one else – and that other named parties are being added because they supported Doc James. So he acted unilaterally with support from multiple others? If I count up the editors on each "side", the numbers are approximately equal. Nobody here has had a consensus, and there has never <i>really</i> been a consensus to be edited against. --<a href="/wiki/User:Tryptofish" title="User:Tryptofish">Tryptofish</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Tryptofish" title="User talk:Tryptofish">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Medicine#c-Tryptofish-2020-04-02T19:38:00.000Z-Tryptofish-2020-04-01T19:40:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:38, 2 April 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Tryptofish-2020-04-02T19:38:00.000Z-Tryptofish-2020-04-01T19:40:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Tryptofish-2020-04-02T19:38:00.000Z-Tryptofish-2020-04-01T19:40:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading3"><h3 id="Statement_by_Masem" data-mw-thread-id="h-Statement_by_Masem-Preliminary_statements-2020-04-01T14:42:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Statement_by_Masem-Preliminary_statements-2020-04-01T14:42:00.000Z"></span>Statement by Masem<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Statement_by_Masem-Preliminary_statements-2020-04-01T14:42:00.000Z"></span></h3><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Medicine&action=edit&section=24" title="Edit section: Statement by Masem"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Masem-2020-04-01T14:42:00.000Z-Statement_by_Masem"></span>I am commenting only in that I was involved in earlier discussions at <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:NOT" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia talk:NOT">WT:NOT</a> related to when pricing information <i>in general</i> (see <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:What_Wikipedia_is_not/Archive_57#Clarification_requested_for_product_pricing_(Sales_catalogues)" title="Wikipedia talk:What Wikipedia is not/Archive 57">Wikipedia talk:What Wikipedia is not/Archive 57#Clarification requested for product pricing (Sales catalogues)</a>) where I tried to provide the way it was done from the tech industry (eg when the next iPhone or video game console goes on sale, a big deal will be made about pricing, and thus generally we have the sources to explain why we discuss pricing). I do understand the concerns around the drug pricing issue on both directions. I cannot comment on the behavior issues that have happened since and while Arbcom is not going to delegate on content issues, I do believe, should they see something in terms of unifying the approach, it would be helpful for the case to flesh that out too; as pointed out in a few previous comments, with eyes of the world on a cure for conoravirus, the cost of that cure will likely be of major interest so how to deal with pricing will be a factor. --<a href="/wiki/User:Masem" title="User:Masem">M<span style="font-variant: small-caps">asem</span></a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Masem" title="User talk:Masem">t</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Medicine#c-Masem-2020-04-01T14:42:00.000Z-Statement_by_Masem" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">14:42, 1 April 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Masem-2020-04-01T14:42:00.000Z-Statement_by_Masem"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Masem-2020-04-01T14:42:00.000Z-Statement_by_Masem"></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading3"><h3 id="Statement_by_Iridescent" data-mw-thread-id="h-Statement_by_Iridescent-Preliminary_statements-2020-04-01T15:05:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Statement_by_Iridescent-Preliminary_statements-2020-04-01T15:05:00.000Z"></span>Statement by Iridescent<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Statement_by_Iridescent-Preliminary_statements-2020-04-01T15:05:00.000Z"></span></h3><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Medicine&action=edit&section=25" title="Edit section: Statement by Iridescent"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Iridescent-2020-04-01T15:05:00.000Z-Statement_by_Iridescent"></span>{I have never added or removed a drug price, get on fine AFAIK with all the participants, and have no horse in this race nor a preferred outcome.) This may look like a content dispute, but it isn't; it's a meta-issue over to what extent RFC results are binding, whether the spirit of RFC closures should be respected or whether it's only the exact wording which needs to be complied with, and on whether it constitutes disruptive editing to edit against consensus when one genuinely believes the consensus is wrong. As such, it's exactly the kind of thing where arbitration—in both the WikiSpeak and the everyone-else-in-the-world senses of the term—is going to be the best solution. As a general aside, speaking as the closer of <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Village_pump_(policy)/Archive_126#RfC:_Religion_in_biographical_infoboxes" title="Wikipedia:Village pump (policy)/Archive 126">the "Religion in biographical infoboxes" RFC</a> (which covered the intersection of the three most toxic topics on the 'pedia), I can confirm that it <em>is</em> possible for all the participants to abide by the result of an RFC closure, even the people with strong personalities who genuinely believe that the closure was the wrong conclusion. ‑ <a href="/wiki/User:Iridescent" class="mw-redirect" title="User:Iridescent">Iridescent</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Medicine#c-Iridescent-2020-04-01T15:05:00.000Z-Statement_by_Iridescent" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:05, 1 April 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Iridescent-2020-04-01T15:05:00.000Z-Statement_by_Iridescent"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Iridescent-2020-04-01T15:05:00.000Z-Statement_by_Iridescent"></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading3"><h3 id="Statement_by_WereSpielChequers" data-mw-thread-id="h-Statement_by_WereSpielChequers-Preliminary_statements-2020-04-01T18:12:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Statement_by_WereSpielChequers-Preliminary_statements-2020-04-01T18:12:00.000Z"></span>Statement by WereSpielChequers<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Statement_by_WereSpielChequers-Preliminary_statements-2020-04-01T18:12:00.000Z"></span></h3><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Medicine&action=edit&section=26" title="Edit section: Statement by WereSpielChequers"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-WereSpielChequers-2020-04-01T18:12:00.000Z-Statement_by_WereSpielChequers"></span>As a Brit I really don't have skin in this game, there aren't many areas of life where we can be so smug. But I can appreciate that for our readers in large parts of the World it is really useful information to know whether a drug is worth an international trip to buy more cheaply. However, as others have pointed out, this really really isn't the time for us to distract our medical editors with an Arbcom case. I suggest that the committee accept the case, but defer it for at least a few months. <i><a href="/wiki/User:WereSpielChequers" title="User:WereSpielChequers"><span style="color:DarkGreen">Ϣere</span></a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:WereSpielChequers" title="User talk:WereSpielChequers"><span style="color:DarkRed">Spiel</span></a><span style="color:#CC5500">Chequers</span></i> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Medicine#c-WereSpielChequers-2020-04-01T18:12:00.000Z-Statement_by_WereSpielChequers" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:12, 1 April 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-WereSpielChequers-2020-04-01T18:12:00.000Z-Statement_by_WereSpielChequers"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-WereSpielChequers-2020-04-01T18:12:00.000Z-Statement_by_WereSpielChequers"></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading3"><h3 id="Statement_by_Paul_August" data-mw-thread-id="h-Statement_by_Paul_August-Preliminary_statements-2020-04-01T18:47:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Statement_by_Paul_August-Preliminary_statements-2020-04-01T18:47:00.000Z"></span>Statement by Paul August<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Statement_by_Paul_August-Preliminary_statements-2020-04-01T18:47:00.000Z"></span></h3><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Medicine&action=edit&section=27" title="Edit section: Statement by Paul August"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Paul_August-2020-04-01T18:47:00.000Z-Statement_by_Paul_August"></span>Please accept. Now more than ever it is important to get control of this issue. I am sure that some of the involved editors, in the belief that they know best, are willing to do whatever it takes to do what they feel they know to be right, consensus/policy be damned. <b>That needs to be stopped.</b> <a href="/wiki/User:Paul_August" title="User:Paul August">Paul August</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Paul_August" title="User talk:Paul August">☎</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Medicine#c-Paul_August-2020-04-01T18:47:00.000Z-Statement_by_Paul_August" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:47, 1 April 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Paul_August-2020-04-01T18:47:00.000Z-Statement_by_Paul_August"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Paul_August-2020-04-01T18:47:00.000Z-Statement_by_Paul_August"></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading3"><h3 id="Statement_by_Literaturegeek" data-mw-thread-id="h-Statement_by_Literaturegeek-Preliminary_statements-2020-04-01T18:50:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Statement_by_Literaturegeek-Preliminary_statements-2020-04-01T18:50:00.000Z"></span>Statement by Literaturegeek<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Statement_by_Literaturegeek-Preliminary_statements-2020-04-01T18:50:00.000Z"></span></h3><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Medicine&action=edit&section=28" title="Edit section: Statement by Literaturegeek"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Literaturegeek-2020-04-01T18:50:00.000Z-Statement_by_Literaturegeek"></span>I am uninvolved in this matter, I did not comment on the RfC or any discussion because I just, to be bluntly honest, did not really care much about whether drug pricing is mentioned or not in the lead. However, I did follow some of the arguments and as an outsider looking in I believe the dispute involves old ego battles and grudges between one set of editors versus another set as much as it involves a content dispute. With that said, I do not believe that ArbCom should proceed with a case at this juncture as I suspect that the best resolution is for further RfC’s to be held on areas where the original RfC did not find consensus or where loopholes and points of dispute exist. If follow up RfCs fail to resolve the dispute then at that point an ArbCom case should be held. Also the COVID-19 pandemic is further reason to stall the case given doctors are involved in this dispute, particularly Doc James who is an A&E consultant doctor. So one or possibly two follow up RfCs could resolve this dispute much quicker and more soundly than an ArbCom case which could worsen grudges, etc. The decision to hold a case now, during an acute phase of a pandemic, could actually cause real harm or even cost people’s lives if we switch medical editors and medical doctors attention away from COVID-19 and onto an ArbCom case, vote carefully. If an ArbCom case does proceed, I suggest that they conclude further RfCs be held on remaining points of dispute/uncertainty. Please consider striking votes to accept and hold off on a case.--<a href="/wiki/User:Literaturegeek" title="User:Literaturegeek"><span style="color:blue">Literaturegeek</span></a> | <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Literaturegeek" title="User talk:Literaturegeek"><span style="color:blue"><i>T@1k?</i></span></a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Medicine#c-Literaturegeek-2020-04-01T18:50:00.000Z-Statement_by_Literaturegeek" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:50, 1 April 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Literaturegeek-2020-04-01T18:50:00.000Z-Statement_by_Literaturegeek"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Literaturegeek-2020-04-01T18:50:00.000Z-Statement_by_Literaturegeek"></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading3"><h3 id="Statement_by_Wugapodes" data-mw-thread-id="h-Statement_by_Wugapodes-Preliminary_statements"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Statement_by_Wugapodes-Preliminary_statements"></span>Statement by Wugapodes<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Statement_by_Wugapodes-Preliminary_statements"></span></h3><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Medicine&action=edit&section=29" title="Edit section: Statement by Wugapodes"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span></div> <p>I speak only for myself and only to provide information as a closer of the RfC that seems to have precipitated this. I echo <a href="/wiki/User:Tryptofish" title="User:Tryptofish">Tryptofish</a> who says <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1248585704"><q class="inline-quote-talk">It was very clear during the RfC drafting that many of the editors doing the drafting intended this RfC to be the first of two RfCs, and that it would not resolve the overall issue</q>, and it was clear to me that the role of the closure was to provide direction for a future RfC, not definitively decide this point once and for all. I also agree with <a href="/wiki/User:Literaturegeek" title="User:Literaturegeek">Literaturegeek</a>'s assessment that <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1248585704"><q class="inline-quote-talk">I believe the dispute involves old ego battles and grudges between one set of editors versus another set as much as it involves a content dispute.</q> From reading through the RfC, it is clear that some editors have more skin in the game than others, and it seems that the discussion has <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:NOTFACTIONS" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:NOTFACTIONS">polarized into camps</a> with few willing to compromise. This polarization is the heart of the no consensus conclusion; I doubt further discussion will clarify the point because the <a href="http://meatballwiki.org/wiki/CommunityDoesNotAgree" class="extiw" title="meatball:CommunityDoesNotAgree">CommunityDoesNotAgree</a> and any community solution will be frustrated by the sizeable opposition on either side. Even if we were to phrase the close in a completely unambiguous and definitive way as <a href="/wiki/User:WhatamIdoing" title="User:WhatamIdoing">WhatamIdoing</a> suggests, it will not work in practice. Our policies are descriptive, not prescriptive, and what will occur (and to some degree already has) is that those on one side will frustrate attempts by the other to enforce a policy that does not actually have consensus of the community. </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading3"><h3 id="Statement_by_Robert_McClenon" data-mw-thread-id="h-Statement_by_Robert_McClenon-Preliminary_statements-2020-04-05T03:00:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Statement_by_Robert_McClenon-Preliminary_statements-2020-04-05T03:00:00.000Z"></span>Statement by Robert McClenon<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Statement_by_Robert_McClenon-Preliminary_statements-2020-04-05T03:00:00.000Z"></span></h3><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Medicine&action=edit&section=30" title="Edit section: Statement by Robert McClenon"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Robert_McClenon-2020-04-05T03:00:00.000Z-Statement_by_Robert_McClenon"></span>I see that ArbCom is about to accept this case, and I agree that the case should be accepted, with no particular assumptions as to the schedule of decision. ArbCom should usually accept a case when there are arguments both to accept and to decline. There have been more issues where the decision by ArbCom not to accept a case, which might have then had to be accepted later, has been a mistake, than cases where accepting the case was a mistake. ArbCom can always postpone or dismiss a case (and is currently considering a case that was postponed for years). If quick action turns out to be needed, it will be better to have the case open than to have to open it. If the case has to be kept in process for months due to the pandemic, there is no harm in opening it. <a href="/wiki/User:Robert_McClenon" title="User:Robert McClenon">Robert McClenon</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Robert_McClenon" title="User talk:Robert McClenon">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Medicine#c-Robert_McClenon-2020-04-05T03:00:00.000Z-Statement_by_Robert_McClenon" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">03:00, 5 April 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Robert_McClenon-2020-04-05T03:00:00.000Z-Statement_by_Robert_McClenon"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Robert_McClenon-2020-04-05T03:00:00.000Z-Statement_by_Robert_McClenon"></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading3"><h3 id="S_Marshall" data-mw-thread-id="h-S_Marshall-Preliminary_statements-2020-04-06T11:00:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-S_Marshall-Preliminary_statements-2020-04-06T11:00:00.000Z"></span>S Marshall<span data-mw-comment-end="h-S_Marshall-Preliminary_statements-2020-04-06T11:00:00.000Z"></span></h3><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Medicine&action=edit&section=31" title="Edit section: S Marshall"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-S_Marshall-2020-04-06T11:00:00.000Z-S_Marshall"></span>I was at most peripherally involved with the subject RFC, except for making one edit as a participant. If Arbcom accepts the case narrowly, focused on this specific matter, then I shall keep quiet. But if Arbcom accepts the case as <i>conduct in RFCs involving medicine</i>, then I will wish to introduce some diffs. </p><p>There is potentially scope to discuss RFCs in general: how binding are they? How prescriptive can a closing statement be, which is another way of asking, how much authority attaches to the closer? The community could use some direction on that, too.—<a href="/wiki/User:S_Marshall" title="User:S Marshall"><b style="font-family: Verdana; color: Maroon;">S Marshall</b></a> <small><a href="/wiki/User_talk:S_Marshall" title="User talk:S Marshall">T</a>/<a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/S_Marshall" title="Special:Contributions/S Marshall">C</a></small> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Medicine#c-S_Marshall-2020-04-06T11:00:00.000Z-S_Marshall" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">11:00, 6 April 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-S_Marshall-2020-04-06T11:00:00.000Z-S_Marshall"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-S_Marshall-2020-04-06T11:00:00.000Z-S_Marshall"></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading3"><h3 id="Statement_by_Outriggr" data-mw-thread-id="h-Statement_by_Outriggr-Preliminary_statements-2020-04-07T03:12:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Statement_by_Outriggr-Preliminary_statements-2020-04-07T03:12:00.000Z"></span>Statement by Outriggr<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Statement_by_Outriggr-Preliminary_statements-2020-04-07T03:12:00.000Z"></span></h3><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Medicine&action=edit&section=32" title="Edit section: Statement by Outriggr"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Outriggr-2020-04-07T03:12:00.000Z-Statement_by_Outriggr"></span>I have followed the talk page of Wikiproject Medicine for some time, if not generally participated in it. (The same can be said for pages like this. ;) The influence of organized entities outside the English Wikipedia itself has been a continuing subject of tension on the talk page of Wikiproject Medicine. For this reason, I find <a href="/wiki/User:SandyGeorgia" title="User:SandyGeorgia">SandyGeorgia</a>'s request that an arbitrator recuse—an arbitrator who is listed as a current member of such an external organization (one formal enough to be a tax exempt <a class="external autonumber" href="https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wiki_Project_Med">[45]</a>) related to Wikipedia medical content—to be completely reasonable. A hypothetical active member of that organization would be reasonably expected to interpret claims about the behavior of other members of that organization—which one or more parties to this case are also members of—differently than a neutral party. I don't know if DGG is a particularly involved member, but it shouldn't matter. As always, it is about avoiding even the appearance or possibility of a conflict of interest. <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Outriggr&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Outriggr (page does not exist)">Outriggr</a> (<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Outriggr&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User talk:Outriggr (page does not exist)">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Medicine#c-Outriggr-2020-04-07T03:12:00.000Z-Statement_by_Outriggr" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">03:12, 7 April 2020 (UTC)</a> it<span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Outriggr-2020-04-07T03:12:00.000Z-Statement_by_Outriggr"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Outriggr-2020-04-07T03:12:00.000Z-Statement_by_Outriggr"></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading3"><h3 id="Statement_by_Amakuru" data-mw-thread-id="h-Statement_by_Amakuru-Preliminary_statements-2020-04-07T09:59:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Statement_by_Amakuru-Preliminary_statements-2020-04-07T09:59:00.000Z"></span>Statement by Amakuru<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Statement_by_Amakuru-Preliminary_statements-2020-04-07T09:59:00.000Z"></span></h3><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Medicine&action=edit&section=33" title="Edit section: Statement by Amakuru"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Amakuru-2020-04-07T09:59:00.000Z-Statement_by_Amakuru"></span>I don't have a strong opinion on the rights and wrongs of the case itself right now, but I'm just going to echo what Outriggr has said above, and Thryduulf and SandyGeorgia too. <a href="/wiki/User:DGG" title="User:DGG">DGG</a> needs to recuse from this case, as being a member of a foundation closely related to the matter under consideration certainly looks like a conflict of interest, even if DGG feels it isn't. And in the interests of fairness to all participants, avoiding the possibility of COI is paramount here even if ultimately it wouldn't have transpired. I also agree with SandyGeorgia that the case should be heard now, not at some unspecified point in the future after COVID-19 dies down. The issues concerned are affecting day-to-day editing right now. — <a href="/wiki/User:Amakuru" title="User:Amakuru">Amakuru</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Amakuru" title="User talk:Amakuru">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Medicine#c-Amakuru-2020-04-07T09:59:00.000Z-Statement_by_Amakuru" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">09:59, 7 April 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Amakuru-2020-04-07T09:59:00.000Z-Statement_by_Amakuru"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Amakuru-2020-04-07T09:59:00.000Z-Statement_by_Amakuru"></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading3"><h3 id="Statement_by_Reciprocater" data-mw-thread-id="h-Statement_by_Reciprocater-Preliminary_statements-2020-04-07T11:16:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Statement_by_Reciprocater-Preliminary_statements-2020-04-07T11:16:00.000Z"></span>Statement by Reciprocater<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Statement_by_Reciprocater-Preliminary_statements-2020-04-07T11:16:00.000Z"></span></h3><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Medicine&action=edit&section=34" title="Edit section: Statement by Reciprocater"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span></div> <ul><li><a href="/wiki/MOS:LEAD" class="mw-redirect" title="MOS:LEAD"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Reciprocater-2020-04-07T11:16:00.000Z-Statement_by_Reciprocater"></span>MOS:LEAD</a>: <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1248585704"><q class="inline-quote-talk">Apart from basic facts, significant information should not appear in the lead if it is not covered in the remainder of the article.</q> <b>Nevertheless</b> if drug prices are added to the lead for the sake of basic human rights of the ill, poor and making our society more equal, which prevents Capitalism gains what Democracy loses. I strongly recommend that Wikipedia make the most of its noble discretion to act in utmost good faith and maximize its positive influence on the world in order to seek a win-win for both sides. --<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Reciprocater" title="User talk:Reciprocater"><span style="color:#014225;font-family:Comic Sans MS;background:#e8f8e0;border:1px solid #a0a040;padding-left:2px;padding-right:2px;box-shadow:1px 2px 3px #acf3ac">Reciprocater (Talk)</span></a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Medicine#c-Reciprocater-2020-04-07T11:16:00.000Z-Statement_by_Reciprocater" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">11:16, 7 April 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Reciprocater-2020-04-07T11:16:00.000Z-Statement_by_Reciprocater"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Reciprocater-2020-04-07T11:16:00.000Z-Statement_by_Reciprocater"></span></li></ul> </td></tr></tbody></table> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Preliminary_decision" data-mw-thread-id="h-Preliminary_decision-2020-03-31T04:59:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Preliminary_decision-2020-03-31T04:59:00.000Z"></span>Preliminary decision<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Preliminary_decision-2020-03-31T04:59:00.000Z"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Medicine&action=edit&section=35" title="Edit section: Preliminary decision"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading3"><h3 id="Clerk_notes" data-mw-thread-id="h-Clerk_notes-Preliminary_decision"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Clerk_notes-Preliminary_decision"></span>Clerk notes<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Clerk_notes-Preliminary_decision"></span></h3><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Medicine&action=edit&section=36" title="Edit section: Clerk notes"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span></div> <dl><dd><i>This area is used for notes by the clerks (including clerk recusals).</i></dd></dl> <ul><li class="mw-empty-elt"></li></ul> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading3"><h3 id="Arbitrators'_opinions_on_hearing_this_matter_(8/0/0)" data-mw-thread-id="h-Arbitrators'_opinions_on_hearing_this_matter_(8/0/0)-Preliminary_decision-2020-03-31T04:59:00.000Z"><span id="Arbitrators.27_opinions_on_hearing_this_matter_.288.2F0.2F0.29"></span><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Arbitrators'_opinions_on_hearing_this_matter_(8/0/0)-Preliminary_decision-2020-03-31T04:59:00.000Z"></span>Arbitrators' opinions on hearing this matter (8/0/0)<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Arbitrators'_opinions_on_hearing_this_matter_(8/0/0)-Preliminary_decision-2020-03-31T04:59:00.000Z"></span></h3><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Medicine&action=edit&section=37" title="Edit section: Arbitrators' opinions on hearing this matter (8/0/0)"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span></div> <p><span class="anchor" id="Medical_pricing:_Arbitrators'_opinion_on_hearing_this_matter"></span><small><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Newyorkbrad-2020-03-31T04:59:00.000Z-Arbitrators'_opinions_on_hearing_this_matter_(8/0/0)"></span>Vote key: (Accept/decline/recuse)</small> </p> <ul><li>Before reaching the substance of the request, is this the best timing given the obvious other issues currently preoccupying editors of medical articles? <a href="/wiki/User:Newyorkbrad" title="User:Newyorkbrad">Newyorkbrad</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Newyorkbrad" title="User talk:Newyorkbrad">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Medicine#c-Newyorkbrad-2020-03-31T04:59:00.000Z-Arbitrators'_opinions_on_hearing_this_matter_(8/0/0)" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">04:59, 31 March 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Newyorkbrad-2020-03-31T04:59:00.000Z-Arbitrators'_opinions_on_hearing_this_matter_(8/0/0)"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Newyorkbrad-2020-03-31T04:59:00.000Z-Arbitrators'_opinions_on_hearing_this_matter_(8/0/0)"></span> <ul><li><span class="template-ping"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Newyorkbrad-2020-03-31T13:12:00.000Z-Newyorkbrad-2020-03-31T04:59:00.000Z"></span>@<a href="/wiki/User:Levivich" title="User:Levivich">Levivich</a>:</span> A motion saying what? <a href="/wiki/User:Newyorkbrad" title="User:Newyorkbrad">Newyorkbrad</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Newyorkbrad" title="User talk:Newyorkbrad">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Medicine#c-Newyorkbrad-2020-03-31T13:12:00.000Z-Newyorkbrad-2020-03-31T04:59:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">13:12, 31 March 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Newyorkbrad-2020-03-31T13:12:00.000Z-Newyorkbrad-2020-03-31T04:59:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Newyorkbrad-2020-03-31T13:12:00.000Z-Newyorkbrad-2020-03-31T04:59:00.000Z"></span></li></ul></li></ul> <ul><li><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-DGG-2020-03-31T18:24:00.000Z-Newyorkbrad-2020-03-31T04:59:00.000Z"></span>I would like to confirm that I understand the question at issue: the RfC seems to have settled that prices were not to be included in the lede nor, usually, in the infobox. It left unresolved the question of whether they should be covered in the article, or to what extent. The recent disputes have been over that issue. Are we being asked to resolve that?--because I cannot see how that's within our scope. <b><a href="/wiki/User:DGG" title="User:DGG"> DGG</a></b> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:DGG" title="User talk:DGG"> talk </a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Medicine#c-DGG-2020-03-31T18:24:00.000Z-Newyorkbrad-2020-03-31T04:59:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:24, 31 March 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-DGG-2020-03-31T18:24:00.000Z-Newyorkbrad-2020-03-31T04:59:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-DGG-2020-03-31T18:24:00.000Z-Newyorkbrad-2020-03-31T04:59:00.000Z"></span></li></ul> <dl><dd><dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Beeblebrox-2020-03-31T21:08:00.000Z-DGG-2020-03-31T18:24:00.000Z"></span>Agreed, I would also like it to be made clearer exactly what we are being asked to decide, we certainly aren't going to start meddling with content. <a href="/wiki/User:Beeblebrox" class="mw-redirect" title="User:Beeblebrox">Beeblebrox</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Beeblebrox" class="mw-redirect" title="User talk:Beeblebrox">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Medicine#c-Beeblebrox-2020-03-31T21:08:00.000Z-DGG-2020-03-31T18:24:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:08, 31 March 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Beeblebrox-2020-03-31T21:08:00.000Z-DGG-2020-03-31T18:24:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Beeblebrox-2020-03-31T21:08:00.000Z-DGG-2020-03-31T18:24:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl> <ul><li><b><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Joe_Roe-2020-04-01T10:08:00.000Z-Newyorkbrad-2020-03-31T04:59:00.000Z"></span>Accept</b> as <i>Medicine</i>. We can't directly settle the content dispute of course, but there are clearly also long-running conduct disputes here, and problems like how to edit in the absence of consensus are subject to relevant conduct policies. A broader scope looking at conduct around the medicine topic, and especially WP:MED, seems appropriate, and might help divert the focus from a specific content dispute. <span class="template-ping">@<a href="/wiki/User:Barkeep49" title="User:Barkeep49">Barkeep49</a>:</span> I think you (or others) can feel free to add more involved parties directly to the case request. – <a href="/wiki/User:Joe_Roe" title="User:Joe Roe">Joe</a> <small>(<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Joe_Roe" title="User talk:Joe Roe">talk</a>)</small> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Medicine#c-Joe_Roe-2020-04-01T10:08:00.000Z-Newyorkbrad-2020-03-31T04:59:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">10:08, 1 April 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Joe_Roe-2020-04-01T10:08:00.000Z-Newyorkbrad-2020-03-31T04:59:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Joe_Roe-2020-04-01T10:08:00.000Z-Newyorkbrad-2020-03-31T04:59:00.000Z"></span></li></ul> <dl><dd><dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Joe_Roe-2020-04-01T10:08:00.000Z-Joe_Roe-2020-04-01T10:08:00.000Z"></span>The timing is not great, but unfortunately I think if we postpone until the COVID crisis is over, we will be essentially postponing indefinitely. We can always extend the usual deadlines if that makes things easier for the parties. – <a href="/wiki/User:Joe_Roe" title="User:Joe Roe">Joe</a> <small>(<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Joe_Roe" title="User talk:Joe Roe">talk</a>)</small> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Medicine#c-Joe_Roe-2020-04-01T10:08:00.000Z-Joe_Roe-2020-04-01T10:08:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">10:08, 1 April 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Joe_Roe-2020-04-01T10:08:00.000Z-Joe_Roe-2020-04-01T10:08:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Joe_Roe-2020-04-01T10:08:00.000Z-Joe_Roe-2020-04-01T10:08:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl> <ul><li><b><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Casliber-2020-04-01T11:41:00.000Z-Newyorkbrad-2020-03-31T04:59:00.000Z"></span>Accept</b> - agree arbcom does not rule on content, but what we have here is a protracted problem area with numerous attempts at resolution. What we <i>do</i> review and sanction is behaviour that stymies attempts at consensus-building. <a href="/wiki/User:Casliber" title="User:Casliber">Cas Liber</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Casliber" title="User talk:Casliber">talk</a> <b>·</b> <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Casliber" title="Special:Contributions/Casliber">contribs</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Medicine#c-Casliber-2020-04-01T11:41:00.000Z-Newyorkbrad-2020-03-31T04:59:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">11:41, 1 April 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Casliber-2020-04-01T11:41:00.000Z-Newyorkbrad-2020-03-31T04:59:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Casliber-2020-04-01T11:41:00.000Z-Newyorkbrad-2020-03-31T04:59:00.000Z"></span></li> <li><b><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Maxim-2020-04-01T14:03:00.000Z-Newyorkbrad-2020-03-31T04:59:00.000Z"></span>Accept</b> <b><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Maxim" title="User talk:Maxim"><span style="font-family:Arial; color:#FF7133;">Maxim</span><sub><small><span style="color:blue;">(talk)</span></small></sub></a></b> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Medicine#c-Maxim-2020-04-01T14:03:00.000Z-Newyorkbrad-2020-03-31T04:59:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">14:03, 1 April 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Maxim-2020-04-01T14:03:00.000Z-Newyorkbrad-2020-03-31T04:59:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Maxim-2020-04-01T14:03:00.000Z-Newyorkbrad-2020-03-31T04:59:00.000Z"></span></li></ul> <dl><dd><dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-DGG-2020-04-01T16:49:00.000Z-Maxim-2020-04-01T14:03:00.000Z"></span>If we are going to have a broad scope, we may need to delay it at least a month in order not to burden editors involved with the current emergency -- we might consider a preliminary injunction<b><a href="/wiki/User:DGG" title="User:DGG"> DGG</a></b> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:DGG" title="User talk:DGG"> talk </a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Medicine#c-DGG-2020-04-01T16:49:00.000Z-Maxim-2020-04-01T14:03:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:49, 1 April 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-DGG-2020-04-01T16:49:00.000Z-Maxim-2020-04-01T14:03:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-DGG-2020-04-01T16:49:00.000Z-Maxim-2020-04-01T14:03:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl> <ul><li><b><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-KrakatoaKatie-2020-04-02T13:11:00.000Z-Newyorkbrad-2020-03-31T04:59:00.000Z"></span>Accept</b> per Cas. <span style="color: #9932CC"><a href="/wiki/User:KrakatoaKatie" title="User:KrakatoaKatie">Katie</a><sup><a href="/wiki/User_talk:KrakatoaKatie" title="User talk:KrakatoaKatie">talk</a></sup></span> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Medicine#c-KrakatoaKatie-2020-04-02T13:11:00.000Z-Newyorkbrad-2020-03-31T04:59:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">13:11, 2 April 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-KrakatoaKatie-2020-04-02T13:11:00.000Z-Newyorkbrad-2020-03-31T04:59:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-KrakatoaKatie-2020-04-02T13:11:00.000Z-Newyorkbrad-2020-03-31T04:59:00.000Z"></span></li> <li><b><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Bradv-2020-04-04T15:17:00.000Z-Newyorkbrad-2020-03-31T04:59:00.000Z"></span>Accept</b> as <i>Medicine</i>, particularly to look at the broader conduct issues that may be getting in the way of consensus-building throughout the medicine topic area. As far as timing goes I think we should start the case now, with the understanding that if we need to draw things out to accommodate people's busy schedules we have the ability to do so. – <a href="/wiki/User:Bradv" title="User:Bradv"><span style="color:#333"><b>brad<i>v</i></b></span></a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Bradv" title="User talk:Bradv"><span style="color:transparent;text-shadow:0 0 0 red;font-size:80%">🍁</span></a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Medicine#c-Bradv-2020-04-04T15:17:00.000Z-Newyorkbrad-2020-03-31T04:59:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:17, 4 April 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Bradv-2020-04-04T15:17:00.000Z-Newyorkbrad-2020-03-31T04:59:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Bradv-2020-04-04T15:17:00.000Z-Newyorkbrad-2020-03-31T04:59:00.000Z"></span></li> <li><b><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-David_Fuchs-2020-04-04T16:43:00.000Z-Newyorkbrad-2020-03-31T04:59:00.000Z"></span>Accept</b> — while it does look like further consensus-building would be helpful to solve the content issues, there appears to be enough friction interrupting that meriting a case. <a href="/wiki/User:David_Fuchs" title="User:David Fuchs"><span style="color: #cc6600;">Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs</span></a> <sup><small><a href="/wiki/User_talk:David_Fuchs" title="User talk:David Fuchs"><span style="color: #cc6600;">talk</span></a></small></sup> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Medicine#c-David_Fuchs-2020-04-04T16:43:00.000Z-Newyorkbrad-2020-03-31T04:59:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:43, 4 April 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-David_Fuchs-2020-04-04T16:43:00.000Z-Newyorkbrad-2020-03-31T04:59:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-David_Fuchs-2020-04-04T16:43:00.000Z-Newyorkbrad-2020-03-31T04:59:00.000Z"></span></li> <li><b><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Beeblebrox-2020-04-04T17:58:00.000Z-Newyorkbrad-2020-03-31T04:59:00.000Z"></span>Accept</b>. I'm reasonably convinced that there is a problem here that needs our intervention to resolve it, but also open to the idea that we might not need a full case and we may be able to do something by motion that would be effective. <a href="/wiki/User:Beeblebrox" class="mw-redirect" title="User:Beeblebrox">Beeblebrox</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Beeblebrox" class="mw-redirect" title="User talk:Beeblebrox">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Medicine#c-Beeblebrox-2020-04-04T17:58:00.000Z-Newyorkbrad-2020-03-31T04:59:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:58, 4 April 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Beeblebrox-2020-04-04T17:58:00.000Z-Newyorkbrad-2020-03-31T04:59:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Beeblebrox-2020-04-04T17:58:00.000Z-Newyorkbrad-2020-03-31T04:59:00.000Z"></span></li> <li><b><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-GorillaWarfare-2020-04-04T19:19:00.000Z-Newyorkbrad-2020-03-31T04:59:00.000Z"></span>Accept</b>. I'm certainly willing to be flexible with timing wrt the COVID-19 situation. <a href="/wiki/User:GorillaWarfare" title="User:GorillaWarfare">GorillaWarfare</a> <small><a href="/wiki/User_talk:GorillaWarfare" title="User talk:GorillaWarfare">(talk)</a></small> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Medicine#c-GorillaWarfare-2020-04-04T19:19:00.000Z-Newyorkbrad-2020-03-31T04:59:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:19, 4 April 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-GorillaWarfare-2020-04-04T19:19:00.000Z-Newyorkbrad-2020-03-31T04:59:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-GorillaWarfare-2020-04-04T19:19:00.000Z-Newyorkbrad-2020-03-31T04:59:00.000Z"></span></li></ul> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading3"><h3 id="Temporary_injunction_(none)" data-mw-thread-id="h-Temporary_injunction_(none)-Preliminary_decision"><span id="Temporary_injunction_.28none.29"></span><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Temporary_injunction_(none)-Preliminary_decision"></span>Temporary injunction (none)<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Temporary_injunction_(none)-Preliminary_decision"></span></h3><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Medicine&action=edit&section=38" title="Edit section: Temporary injunction (none)"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span></div> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading1"><h1 id="Final_decision" data-mw-thread-id="h-Final_decision"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Final_decision"></span>Final decision<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Final_decision"></span></h1><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Medicine&action=edit&section=39" title="Edit section: Final decision"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span></div> <p><i>All tallies are based the votes at <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Medicine/Proposed_decision" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Medicine/Proposed decision">/Proposed decision</a>, where comments and discussion from the voting phase is also available.</i> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Principles" data-mw-thread-id="h-Principles-Final_decision"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Principles-Final_decision"></span>Principles<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Principles-Final_decision"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Medicine&action=edit&section=40" title="Edit section: Principles"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span></div> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading3"><h3 id="Purpose_of_Wikipedia" data-mw-thread-id="h-Purpose_of_Wikipedia-Principles"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Purpose_of_Wikipedia-Principles"></span>Purpose of Wikipedia<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Purpose_of_Wikipedia-Principles"></span></h3><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Medicine&action=edit&section=41" title="Edit section: Purpose of Wikipedia"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span></div> <p>1) The purpose of Wikipedia is to create a high-quality, free-content encyclopedia in an atmosphere of camaraderie and mutual respect among contributors. Contributors whose actions are detrimental to that goal may be asked to refrain from them, even when these actions are undertaken in good faith; and good faith actions, where disruptive, may still result in sanctions. </p> <dl><dd><i>Passed 8 to 0 at 14:57, 3 June 2020 (UTC)</i></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading3"><h3 id="Neutrality_and_conflicts_of_interest" data-mw-thread-id="h-Neutrality_and_conflicts_of_interest-Principles"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Neutrality_and_conflicts_of_interest-Principles"></span>Neutrality and conflicts of interest<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Neutrality_and_conflicts_of_interest-Principles"></span></h3><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Medicine&action=edit&section=42" title="Edit section: Neutrality and conflicts of interest"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span></div> <p>2) Wikipedia adopts a <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:NPOV" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:NPOV">neutral point of view</a>, and <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:What_Wikipedia_is_not#Wikipedia_is_not_a_soapbox" title="Wikipedia:What Wikipedia is not">advocacy</a> for any particular view is prohibited. In particular, Wikipedia's <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Conflict_of_interest" title="Wikipedia:Conflict of interest">conflict of interest</a> guidelines strongly discourage editors contributing "in order to promote their own interests." Neutrality is non-negotiable and requires that, whatever their personal feelings, all editors must strive to ensure articles accurately reflect all significant viewpoints published by reliable sources and give prominence to such viewpoints in proportion to the weight of the source. Editors may contribute to Wikipedia only if they comply with Wikipedia's <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:PILLARS" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:PILLARS">key policies</a>. </p> <dl><dd><i>Passed 8 to 0 at 14:57, 3 June 2020 (UTC)</i></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading3"><h3 id="Wikipedia_is_not_a_battleground" data-mw-thread-id="h-Wikipedia_is_not_a_battleground-Principles"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Wikipedia_is_not_a_battleground-Principles"></span>Wikipedia is not a battleground<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Wikipedia_is_not_a_battleground-Principles"></span></h3><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Medicine&action=edit&section=43" title="Edit section: Wikipedia is not a battleground"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span></div> <p>3) Wikipedia is <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:BATTLE" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:BATTLE">not a place</a> to hold grudges or insult, harass, or intimidate those with whom you have a disagreement. Editors should approach issues intelligently and engage in polite discussion. Editors who consistently find themselves in disputes with each other when they interact on Wikipedia, and who are unable to resolve their differences, should seek to minimise the extent of any unnecessary interactions between them. <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:IBAN" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:IBAN">Interaction bans</a> may be used to force editors to do so. </p> <dl><dd><i>Passed 8 to 0 at 14:57, 3 June 2020 (UTC)</i></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading3"><h3 id="Sanctions_and_circumstances" data-mw-thread-id="h-Sanctions_and_circumstances-Principles"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Sanctions_and_circumstances-Principles"></span>Sanctions and circumstances<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Sanctions_and_circumstances-Principles"></span></h3><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Medicine&action=edit&section=44" title="Edit section: Sanctions and circumstances"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span></div> <p>4) In deciding what sanctions to impose against an administrator or other editor, the Arbitration Committee will consider the editor's overall record of participation, behavioral history, and other relevant circumstances. An editor's positive and valuable contributions in one aspect of his or her participation on Wikipedia do not excuse misbehavior or questionable judgment in another aspect of participation, but may be considered in determining the sanction to be imposed. </p> <dl><dd><i>Passed 8 to 0 at 14:57, 3 June 2020 (UTC)</i></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading3"><h3 id="Tendentious_editing" data-mw-thread-id="h-Tendentious_editing-Principles"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Tendentious_editing-Principles"></span>Tendentious editing<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Tendentious_editing-Principles"></span></h3><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Medicine&action=edit&section=45" title="Edit section: Tendentious editing"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span></div> <p>5) Users who <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Tendentious_editing" title="Wikipedia:Tendentious editing">disrupt the editing</a> of articles by engaging in sustained aggressive editing that frustrates proper editorial processes or discussions may be banned from the affected articles. In extreme cases, they may be banned from the site. </p> <dl><dd><i>Passed 8 to 0 at 14:57, 3 June 2020 (UTC)</i></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading3"><h3 id="Fait_accompli" data-mw-thread-id="h-Fait_accompli-Principles"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Fait_accompli-Principles"></span><i>Fait accompli</i><span data-mw-comment-end="h-Fait_accompli-Principles"></span></h3><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Medicine&action=edit&section=46" title="Edit section: Fait accompli"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span></div> <p>6) Editors who are collectively or individually making large numbers of similar edits, and are apprised that those edits are controversial or disputed, are expected to attempt to resolve the dispute through discussion. It is inappropriate to use repetition or volume to present opponents with a fait accompli or to exhaust their ability to contest the change. This applies to many editors making a few edits each, as well as a few editors making many edits. </p> <dl><dd><i>Passed 8 to 0 at 14:57, 3 June 2020 (UTC)</i></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading3"><h3 id="Criticism_and_casting_aspersions" data-mw-thread-id="h-Criticism_and_casting_aspersions-Principles"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Criticism_and_casting_aspersions-Principles"></span>Criticism and casting aspersions<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Criticism_and_casting_aspersions-Principles"></span></h3><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Medicine&action=edit&section=47" title="Edit section: Criticism and casting aspersions"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span></div> <p>7) An editor must not accuse another of inappropriate conduct without evidence, especially when the accusations are repeated or severe. Comments should not be personalised, but should instead be directed at content and specific actions. Disparaging an editor or casting aspersions can be considered a personal attack. If accusations are made, they should be raised, with evidence, on the user talk page of the editor they concern or in the appropriate dispute resolution forum. </p> <dl><dd><i>Passed 8 to 0 at 14:57, 3 June 2020 (UTC)</i></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading3"><h3 id="Existing_policy_on_pricing" data-mw-thread-id="h-Existing_policy_on_pricing-Principles"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Existing_policy_on_pricing-Principles"></span>Existing policy on pricing<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Existing_policy_on_pricing-Principles"></span></h3><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Medicine&action=edit&section=48" title="Edit section: Existing policy on pricing"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span></div> <p>8) The Wikipedia policy <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:NOTCATALOG" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:NOTCATALOG">What Wikipedia is not</a> includes, "an article should not include product pricing or availability information unless there is an independent source and a justified reason for the mention [...] Wikipedia is not a price comparison service to be used to compare the prices of competing products, or the prices of a single product from different vendors." The policy on pricing has existed in almost its exact wording for a decade.<a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:What_Wikipedia_is_not&oldid=376866843#Wikipedia_is_not_a_directory">[46]</a> </p> <dl><dd><i>Passed 8 to 0 at 14:57, 3 June 2020 (UTC)</i></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading3"><h3 id="Clarity_of_consensus" data-mw-thread-id="h-Clarity_of_consensus-Principles"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Clarity_of_consensus-Principles"></span>Clarity of consensus<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Clarity_of_consensus-Principles"></span></h3><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Medicine&action=edit&section=49" title="Edit section: Clarity of consensus"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span></div> <p>9) Consensus is Wikipedia's fundamental model for editorial decision-making. In most cases, consensus is an implicit process, where undisputed edits—either in article or project space—are <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Silence_and_consensus" title="Wikipedia:Silence and consensus">assumed to have consensus</a>. In cases where consensus is unclear, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:CAREFUL" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:CAREFUL">extra care</a> must be taken to avoid stirring up unnecessary conflict. From both a broad behavioral and content standpoint, there exist situations on Wikipedia where it preferable to be <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:CAUTIOUS" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:CAUTIOUS">cautious</a> and seek consensus <i>prior</i> to an edit instead of editing <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:BOLD" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:BOLD">boldly</a> as is common in uncontroversial areas of the project. </p> <dl><dd><i>Passed 7 to 0 at 14:57, 3 June 2020 (UTC)</i></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading3"><h3 id="Levels_of_consensus" data-mw-thread-id="h-Levels_of_consensus-Principles"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Levels_of_consensus-Principles"></span>Levels of consensus<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Levels_of_consensus-Principles"></span></h3><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Medicine&action=edit&section=50" title="Edit section: Levels of consensus"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span></div> <p>10) Local consensus among a limited group of editors, such as through a Wikiproject or talk page discussion, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:CONLIMITED" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:CONLIMITED">does not override wider community consensus</a>. Advice pages that have not been accepted as a policy or guideline should be treated as <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Essays" title="Wikipedia:Essays">essays</a>. </p> <dl><dd><i>Passed 8 to 0 at 14:57, 3 June 2020 (UTC)</i></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading3"><h3 id="Role_of_the_Arbitration_Committee" data-mw-thread-id="h-Role_of_the_Arbitration_Committee-Principles"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Role_of_the_Arbitration_Committee-Principles"></span>Role of the Arbitration Committee<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Role_of_the_Arbitration_Committee-Principles"></span></h3><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Medicine&action=edit&section=51" title="Edit section: Role of the Arbitration Committee"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span></div> <p>11) It is not the role of the Arbitration Committee to settle good-faith content disputes among editors. </p> <dl><dd><i>Passed 8 to 0 at 14:57, 3 June 2020 (UTC)</i></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Findings_of_fact" data-mw-thread-id="h-Findings_of_fact-Final_decision"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Findings_of_fact-Final_decision"></span>Findings of fact<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Findings_of_fact-Final_decision"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Medicine&action=edit&section=52" title="Edit section: Findings of fact"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span></div> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading3"><h3 id="Locus_of_dispute" data-mw-thread-id="h-Locus_of_dispute-Findings_of_fact"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Locus_of_dispute-Findings_of_fact"></span>Locus of dispute<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Locus_of_dispute-Findings_of_fact"></span></h3><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Medicine&action=edit&section=53" title="Edit section: Locus of dispute"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span></div> <p>1) The locus of this dispute centres on medical articles. While the case was filed following a dispute related to the insertion of pharmaceutical drug prices into article leads and infoboxes, there exists a variety of long-standing or historical disputes between multiple editors highly active on medical articles, which form a particularly sensitive topic on Wikipedia. Not unlike editing <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:BLP" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:BLP">biographies of living people</a>, editing medical articles brings forth a particular responsibility to exercise the greatest care and attention to verifiability, neutrality, and avoidance of original research. </p> <dl><dd><i>Passed 8 to 0 at 14:57, 3 June 2020 (UTC)</i></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading3"><h3 id="Manual_of_Style:_Medicine-related_articles_and_pharmaceutical_drug_prices" data-mw-thread-id="h-Manual_of_Style:_Medicine-related_articles_and_pharmaceutical_drug_prices-Findings_of_fact"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Manual_of_Style:_Medicine-related_articles_and_pharmaceutical_drug_prices-Findings_of_fact"></span>Manual of Style: Medicine-related articles and pharmaceutical drug prices<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Manual_of_Style:_Medicine-related_articles_and_pharmaceutical_drug_prices-Findings_of_fact"></span></h3><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Medicine&action=edit&section=54" title="Edit section: Manual of Style: Medicine-related articles and pharmaceutical drug prices"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span></div> <p>2) A manual of style for medicine-related articles was started in 2006, and accepted as a guideline in 2007. Discussions about changes to the manual's prescriptions for the inclusion or exclusion of pharmaceutical drug prices have become increasingly acrimonious. A recent RfC was closed as no consensus on the blanket inclusion of pharmaceutical drug prices in articles.<a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Medicine/Evidence#Timeline_of_MOS_Dispute">[47]</a> </p> <dl><dd><i>Passed 6 to 0 at 14:57, 3 June 2020 (UTC)</i></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading3"><h3 id="Unclear_consensus_of_requests_for_comment_is_not_novel" data-mw-thread-id="h-Unclear_consensus_of_requests_for_comment_is_not_novel-Findings_of_fact"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Unclear_consensus_of_requests_for_comment_is_not_novel-Findings_of_fact"></span>Unclear consensus of requests for comment is not novel<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Unclear_consensus_of_requests_for_comment_is_not_novel-Findings_of_fact"></span></h3><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Medicine&action=edit&section=55" title="Edit section: Unclear consensus of requests for comment is not novel"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span></div> <p>3) The lack of clear consensus produces an untenable situation where any article edits and subsequent discussions in this topic area readily devolve into further rancorous disputes that fail to yield consensus. Such situations are not unique to medicine articles; for example, the Arbitration Committee heard a case on <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Infoboxes" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Infoboxes">infoboxes</a> in 2013 where unclear consensus on the inclusion or exclusion of infoboxes in article resulted in similar disputes. </p> <dl><dd><i>Passed 6 to 1 with 1 abstention at 14:57, 3 June 2020 (UTC)</i></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading3"><h3 id="CFCF" data-mw-thread-id="h-CFCF-Findings_of_fact"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-CFCF-Findings_of_fact"></span>CFCF<span data-mw-comment-end="h-CFCF-Findings_of_fact"></span></h3><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Medicine&action=edit&section=56" title="Edit section: CFCF"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span></div> <p>4) <a href="/wiki/User:CFCF" class="mw-redirect" title="User:CFCF">CFCF</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:CFCF" title="User talk:CFCF">talk</a> <b>·</b> <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/CFCF" title="Special:Contributions/CFCF">contribs</a>) has degraded discussions with unsupported accusations.<a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Medicine/Evidence#CFCF">[48]</a> They were previously warned as part of an arbitration case.<a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Editor_conduct_in_e-cigs_articles">[49]</a> CFCF has <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Medicine/Evidence#Evidence_presented_by_CFCF">apologized for their behavior</a> in regards to the scope of this case. </p> <dl><dd><i>Passed 8 to 0 at 14:57, 3 June 2020 (UTC)</i></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading3"><h3 id="Colin" data-mw-thread-id="h-Colin-Findings_of_fact"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Colin-Findings_of_fact"></span>Colin<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Colin-Findings_of_fact"></span></h3><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Medicine&action=edit&section=57" title="Edit section: Colin"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span></div> <p>5) <a href="/wiki/User:Colin" title="User:Colin">Colin</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Colin" title="User talk:Colin">talk</a> <b>·</b> <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Colin" title="Special:Contributions/Colin">contribs</a>) has degraded discussions by baseless accusations of bad faith and needless antagonism, e.g. <a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Doc_James&diff=prev&oldid=834240966&diffmode=source">[50]</a><a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine&diff=next&oldid=928964052&diffmode=source">[51]</a><a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Incidents&type=revision&diff=929405610&oldid=929405393&diffmode=source">[52]</a> </p> <dl><dd><i>Passed 4 to 1 with 2 abstentions at 14:57, 3 June 2020 (UTC)</i></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading3"><h3 id="Doc_James" data-mw-thread-id="h-Doc_James-Findings_of_fact"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Doc_James-Findings_of_fact"></span>Doc James<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Doc_James-Findings_of_fact"></span></h3><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Medicine&action=edit&section=58" title="Edit section: Doc James"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span></div> <p>6) <a href="/wiki/User:Doc_James" title="User:Doc James">Doc James</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Doc_James" title="User talk:Doc James">talk</a> <b>·</b> <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Doc_James" title="Special:Contributions/Doc James">contribs</a>) has repeatedly edit-warred<a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Medicine/Evidence&oldid=952310800#Case_study:_Schizophrenia,_James_editwars_with_senior_editors_and_content_experts">[53]</a><a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Medicine/Evidence#Timeline_of_MOS_Dispute">[54]</a> to add or retain pricing information in articles, despite repeated RfCs that closed with no consensus for blanket inclusion.<a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine&diff=729026823&oldid=729012811&diffmode=source">[55]</a><a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style/Medicine-related_articles/RFC_on_lead_guideline_for_medicine-related_articles&oldid=938008845">[56]</a><a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style/Medicine-related_articles/RFC_on_pharmaceutical_drug_prices&oldid=947686699">[57]</a> Their low usage of edit summaries has contributed to problems in collaborative editing.<a rel="nofollow" class="external autonumber" href="https://xtools.wmflabs.org/editsummary/en.wikipedia.org/Doc%20James">[58]</a><a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Medicine/Evidence#Inadequate_use_of_edit_summaries_contributing_to_tension">[59]</a> They were previously the subject of an editing restriction as the result of an arbitration case.<a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/ADHD#Jmh649_restricted">[60]</a> </p> <dl><dd><i>Passed 8 to 0 at 14:57, 3 June 2020 (UTC)</i></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading3"><h3 id="QuackGuru" data-mw-thread-id="h-QuackGuru-Findings_of_fact"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-QuackGuru-Findings_of_fact"></span>QuackGuru<span data-mw-comment-end="h-QuackGuru-Findings_of_fact"></span></h3><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Medicine&action=edit&section=59" title="Edit section: QuackGuru"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span></div> <p>7) <a href="/wiki/User:QuackGuru" title="User:QuackGuru">QuackGuru</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:QuackGuru" title="User talk:QuackGuru">talk</a> <b>·</b> <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/QuackGuru" title="Special:Contributions/QuackGuru">contribs</a>) has acted disruptively and participated in edit wars regarding drug pricing,<a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Medicine/Evidence#Evidence_presented_by_Barkeep49">[61]</a><a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User:Colin/PriceEdits&oldid=950498526#Ivermectin">[62]</a> They have previously been topic-banned by the community<a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?oldid=796830504#User:QuackGuru_and_Judeo-Christian_related_articles">[63]</a> and were warned as the result of an arbitration case,<a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Editor_conduct_in_e-cigs_articles#QuackGuru">[64]</a> for which they were later blocked.<a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement&oldid=941577627#QuackGuru">[65]</a> </p> <dl><dd><i>Passed 8 to 0 at 14:57, 3 June 2020 (UTC)</i></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Remedies" data-mw-thread-id="h-Remedies-Final_decision"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Remedies-Final_decision"></span>Remedies<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Remedies-Final_decision"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Medicine&action=edit&section=60" title="Edit section: Remedies"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span></div> <p><small><i>Note: All remedies that refer to a period of time, for example to a ban of X months or a revert parole of Y months, are to run concurrently unless otherwise stated.</i></small> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading3"><h3 id="Contentious_topic_designation" data-mw-thread-id="h-Contentious_topic_designation-Remedies"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Contentious_topic_designation-Remedies"></span>Contentious topic designation<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Contentious_topic_designation-Remedies"></span></h3><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Medicine&action=edit&section=61" title="Edit section: Contentious topic designation"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span></div> <style data-mw-deduplicate="TemplateStyles:r1256386598">.mw-parser-output .cot-header-mainspace{background:#F0F2F5;color:inherit}.mw-parser-output .cot-header-other{background:#CCFFCC;color:inherit}@media screen{html.skin-theme-clientpref-night .mw-parser-output .cot-header-mainspace{background:#14181F;color:inherit}html.skin-theme-clientpref-night .mw-parser-output .cot-header-other{background:#003500;color:inherit}}@media screen and (prefers-color-scheme:dark){html.skin-theme-clientpref-os .mw-parser-output .cot-header-mainspace{background:#14181F;color:inherit}html.skin-theme-clientpref-os .mw-parser-output .cot-header-other{background:#003500;color:inherit}}</style> <div style="margin-left:0"> <table class="mw-collapsible mw-archivedtalk mw-collapsed" style="color:inherit; background: transparent; text-align: left; border: 1px solid Silver; margin: 0.2em auto auto; width:100%; clear: both; padding: 1px;"> <tbody><tr> <th class="cot-header-other" style="; font-size:87%; padding:0.2em 0.3em; text-align:center;"><div style="font-size:115%;margin:0 4em">Superseded version</div> </th></tr> <tr> <td style="color:inherit; border: solid 1px Silver; padding: 0.6em; background: var(--background-color-base, #fff);"> <style data-mw-deduplicate="TemplateStyles:r1236090951">.mw-parser-output .hatnote{font-style:italic}.mw-parser-output div.hatnote{padding-left:1.6em;margin-bottom:0.5em}.mw-parser-output .hatnote i{font-style:normal}.mw-parser-output .hatnote+link+.hatnote{margin-top:-0.5em}@media print{body.ns-0 .mw-parser-output .hatnote{display:none!important}}</style><div role="note" class="hatnote navigation-not-searchable">Former title: "Standard discretionary sanctions".</div> <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1252059228"><div class="module-shortcutanchordiv"><span id="WP:ARBMEDDS"></span><span id="WP:MEDDS"></span></div><div class="module-shortcutboxplain noprint" role="note"><div class="module-shortcutlist"><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Shortcut" title="Wikipedia:Shortcut">Shortcuts</a></div><link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1126788409"><div class="plainlist"><ul><li><span class="plainlinks"><a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:ARBMEDDS&redirect=no">WP:ARBMEDDS</a></span></li><li><span class="plainlinks"><a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:MEDDS&redirect=no">WP:MEDDS</a></span></li></ul></div></div> <p>2) <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration_Committee/Procedures#Discretionary_sanctions" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration Committee/Procedures">Standard discretionary sanctions</a> are authorized for all discussions about pharmaceutical drug prices and pricing and for edits adding, changing, or removing pharmaceutical drug prices or pricing from articles. Any uninvolved administrator may apply sanctions as an arbitration enforcement action to users editing in this topic area, after an initial warning. </p> <dl><dd><i>Passed 7 to 1 at 14:57, 3 June 2020 (UTC)</i> <dl><dd><i>Superseded by <a href="#Motion:_contentious_topic_designation_(December_2022)">motion</a> at 21:36, 14 December 2022 (UTC)</i></dd></dl></dd></dl> </td></tr></tbody></table></div> <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1256386598"> <div style="margin-left:0"> <table class="mw-collapsible mw-archivedtalk mw-collapsed" style="color:inherit; background: transparent; text-align: left; border: 1px solid Silver; margin: 0.2em auto auto; width:100%; clear: both; padding: 1px;"> <tbody><tr> <th class="cot-header-other" style="; font-size:87%; padding:0.2em 0.3em; text-align:center;"><div style="font-size:115%;margin:0 4em">Rescinded by <a href="#Motion:_Removal_of_Unused_Contentious_Topics,_Medicine_(October_2023)">motion</a></div> </th></tr> <tr> <td style="color:inherit; border: solid 1px Silver; padding: 0.6em; background: var(--background-color-base, #fff);"> <p>2) All discussions about pharmaceutical drug prices and pricing and for edits adding, changing, or removing pharmaceutical drug prices or pricing from articles, are designated as a <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:CTOP" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:CTOP">contentious topic</a>. </p> </td></tr></tbody></table></div> <dl><dd><i>Amended by <a href="#Motion:_contentious_topic_designation_(December_2022)">motion</a> at 21:36, 14 December 2022 (UTC)</i> <dl><dd><i>Rescinded by <a href="#Motion:_Removal_of_Unused_Contentious_Topics,_Medicine_(October_2023)">motion</a> at 03:15, 19 October 2023 (UTC)</i></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading3"><h3 id="CFCF_reminded" data-mw-thread-id="h-CFCF_reminded-Remedies"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-CFCF_reminded-Remedies"></span>CFCF reminded<span data-mw-comment-end="h-CFCF_reminded-Remedies"></span></h3><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Medicine&action=edit&section=62" title="Edit section: CFCF reminded"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span></div> <p>3) CFCF is reminded to avoid casting aspersions and similar conduct in the future. </p> <dl><dd><i>Passed 7 to 0 at 14:57, 3 June 2020 (UTC)</i></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading3"><h3 id="Doc_James_restricted" data-mw-thread-id="h-Doc_James_restricted-Remedies"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Doc_James_restricted-Remedies"></span>Doc James restricted<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Doc_James_restricted-Remedies"></span></h3><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Medicine&action=edit&section=63" title="Edit section: Doc James restricted"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span></div> <p>5) Doc James is prohibited from making any edits relating to pharmaceutical drug prices or pricing in the article namespace. </p> <dl><dd><i>Passed 8 to 0 at 14:57, 3 June 2020 (UTC)</i></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading3"><h3 id="QuackGuru_topic_banned" data-mw-thread-id="h-QuackGuru_topic_banned-Remedies"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-QuackGuru_topic_banned-Remedies"></span>QuackGuru topic banned<span data-mw-comment-end="h-QuackGuru_topic_banned-Remedies"></span></h3><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Medicine&action=edit&section=64" title="Edit section: QuackGuru topic banned"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span></div> <p>6) QuackGuru is indefinitely <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:TBAN" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:TBAN">topic-banned</a> from articles relating to medicine, broadly construed. </p> <dl><dd><i>Passed 8 to 0 at 14:57, 3 June 2020 (UTC)</i></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Enforcement" data-mw-thread-id="h-Enforcement-Final_decision"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Enforcement-Final_decision"></span>Enforcement<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Enforcement-Final_decision"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Medicine&action=edit&section=65" title="Edit section: Enforcement"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span></div> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading3"><h3 id="Enforcement_of_restrictions" data-mw-thread-id="h-Enforcement_of_restrictions-Enforcement"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Enforcement_of_restrictions-Enforcement"></span>Enforcement of restrictions<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Enforcement_of_restrictions-Enforcement"></span></h3></div> <p>0) Should any user subject to a restriction in this case violate that restriction, that user may be blocked, initially for up to one month, and then with blocks increasing in duration to a maximum of one year. </p> <dl><dd><i>In accordance with the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration_Committee/Procedures#Standard_provision:_enforcement_of_restrictions" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration Committee/Procedures">procedure for the standard enforcement provision</a> adopted 3 May 2014, this provision did not require a vote.</i></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading3"><h3 id="Appeals_and_modifications" data-mw-thread-id="h-Appeals_and_modifications-Enforcement"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Appeals_and_modifications-Enforcement"></span>Appeals and modifications<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Appeals_and_modifications-Enforcement"></span></h3></div> <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1256386598"> <div style="margin-left:0"> <table class="mw-collapsible mw-archivedtalk mw-collapsed" style="color:inherit; background: transparent; text-align: left; border: 1px solid Silver; margin: 0.2em auto auto; width:100%; clear: both; padding: 1px;"> <tbody><tr> <th class="cot-header-other" style="background:#DCDCDC; font-size:87%; padding:0.2em 0.3em; text-align:left; color:#202122"><div style="font-size:115%;">0) Appeals and modifications</div> </th></tr> <tr> <td style="color:inherit; border: solid 1px Silver; padding: 0.6em; background: var(--background-color-base, #fff);"> <p><i>This procedure applies to appeals related to, and modifications of, actions taken by administrators to enforce the Committee's remedies. It does not apply to appeals related to the remedies directly enacted by the Committee.</i> </p> <dl><dt>Appeals by sanctioned editors</dt></dl> <p>Appeals may be made only by the editor under sanction and only for a currently active sanction. Requests for modification of page restrictions may be made by any editor. The process has three possible stages (see "Important notes" below). The editor may: </p> <ol><li>ask the enforcing administrator to reconsider their original decision;</li> <li>request review at the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement">arbitration enforcement noticeboard</a> ("AE") or at the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard" title="Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard">administrators’ noticeboard</a> ("AN"); and</li> <li>submit a request for amendment at <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Clarification_and_Amendment" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Clarification and Amendment">"ARCA"</a>. If the editor is blocked, the appeal may be made by email through <a href="/wiki/User:Arbitration_Committee" title="User:Arbitration Committee">Special:EmailUser/Arbitration Committee</a> (or, if email access is revoked, to <span class="nowrap">arbcom-en<span class="mw-no-invert"><span class="skin-invert" typeof="mw:File"><span title="@"><img alt="@" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/88/At_sign.svg/15px-At_sign.svg.png" decoding="async" width="15" height="15" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/88/At_sign.svg/23px-At_sign.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/88/At_sign.svg/30px-At_sign.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="145" data-file-height="145"/></span></span></span>wikimedia.org</span>).</li></ol> <dl><dt>Modifications by administrators</dt></dl> <p>No administrator may modify or remove a sanction placed by another administrator without: </p> <ol><li>the explicit prior affirmative consent of the enforcing administrator; or</li> <li>prior affirmative agreement for the modification at (a) AE or (b) AN or (c) ARCA (see "Important notes" below).</li></ol> <p>Administrators modifying sanctions out of process may at the discretion of the committee be desysopped. </p><p>Nothing in this section prevents an administrator from replacing an existing sanction issued by another administrator with a new sanction if fresh misconduct has taken place after the existing sanction was applied. </p><p>Administrators are free to modify sanctions placed by former administrators – that is, editors who do not have the administrator permission enabled (due to a temporary or permanent relinquishment or desysop) – without regard to the requirements of this section. If an administrator modifies a sanction placed by a former administrator, the administrator who made the modification becomes the "enforcing administrator". If a former administrator regains the tools, the provisions of this section again apply to their unmodified enforcement actions. </p><p><b>Important notes</b>: </p> <ol><li>For a request to succeed, either</li></ol> <dl><dd><dl><dd>(i) the clear and substantial consensus of (a) uninvolved administrators at AE or (b) uninvolved editors at AN or</dd> <dd>(ii) a passing motion of arbitrators at ARCA</dd> <dd>is required. If consensus at AE or AN is unclear, the status quo prevails.</dd></dl></dd></dl> <ol><li class="mw-empty-elt"></li><li value="2"> While asking the enforcing administrator and seeking reviews at AN or AE are not mandatory prior to seeking a decision from the committee, once the committee has reviewed a request, further substantive review at any forum is barred. The sole exception is editors under an active sanction who may still request an easing or removal of the sanction on the grounds that said sanction is no longer needed, but such requests may only be made once every six months, or whatever longer period the committee may specify.</li> <li>These provisions apply only to contentious topics placed by administrators and to blocks placed by administrators to enforce arbitration case decisions. They do not apply to sanctions directly authorised by the committee, and enacted either by arbitrators or by arbitration clerks, or to special functionary blocks of whatever nature.</li> <li>All actions designated as arbitration enforcement actions, including those alleged to be out of process or against existing policy, must first be appealed following arbitration enforcement procedures to establish if such enforcement is inappropriate before the action may be reversed or formally discussed at another venue.</li></ol> </td></tr></tbody></table></div> <dl><dd><i>In accordance with the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration_Committee/Procedures#Standard_provision:_appeals_and_modifications" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration Committee/Procedures">procedure for the standard appeals and modifications provision</a> adopted 3 May 2014, this provision did not require a vote.</i></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Amendments" data-mw-thread-id="h-Amendments-Final_decision"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Amendments-Final_decision"></span>Amendments<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Amendments-Final_decision"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Medicine&action=edit&section=66" title="Edit section: Amendments"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span></div> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading3"><h3 id="Motion:_contentious_topic_designation_(December_2022)" data-mw-thread-id="h-Motion:_contentious_topic_designation_(December_2022)-Amendments"><span id="Motion:_contentious_topic_designation_.28December_2022.29"></span><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Motion:_contentious_topic_designation_(December_2022)-Amendments"></span>Motion: contentious topic designation (December 2022)<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Motion:_contentious_topic_designation_(December_2022)-Amendments"></span></h3><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Medicine&action=edit&section=67" title="Edit section: Motion: contentious topic designation (December 2022)"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span></div> <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1236090951"><div role="note" class="hatnote navigation-not-searchable">As part of the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:CT2022" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:CT2022">2022 adoption of the contentious topics procedure</a>, the Arbitration Committee adopted the following <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration_Committee/Discretionary_sanctions/2021-22_review#Administrative_provisions" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration Committee/Discretionary sanctions/2021-22 review">motion</a> to re-designate existing discretionary sanctions remedies as contentious topic designations.</div> <style data-mw-deduplicate="TemplateStyles:r1256334245">.mw-parser-output .ivmbox{margin-bottom:1em;border:1px solid var(--border-color-base,#a2a9b1);background-color:var(--background-color-warning-subtle,#fdf2d5);padding:0.5em;display:flex;align-items:center}@media screen{html.skin-theme-clientpref-night .mw-parser-output .ivmbox[style*="background"]{background-color:var(--background-color-warning-subtle,ivory)!important;color:inherit}}@media screen and (prefers-color-scheme:dark){html.skin-theme-clientpref-os .mw-parser-output .ivmbox[style*="background"]{background-color:var(--background-color-warning-subtle,ivory)!important;color:inherit}}.mw-parser-output .ivmbox-image{padding-left:1px;padding-right:0.5em;max-width:100px;flex:1 0 25px}.mw-parser-output .ivmbox-text{padding:0.5em 0}.mw-parser-output .ivmbox-text>:first-child{margin-top:0}.mw-parser-output .ivmbox-text>:last-child{margin-bottom:0}</style><div class="ivmbox" style=""> <div class="ivmbox-text"> <p>21) Each reference to the prior <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:AC/DS" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:AC/DS">discretionary sanctions procedure</a> shall be treated as a reference to the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:AC/CT" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:AC/CT">contentious topics procedure</a>. The arbitration clerks are directed to amend all existing remedies authorizing discretionary sanctions to instead designate contentious topics. </p> </div> </div> <dl><dd><i>Passed 10 to 0 with 1 abstention by <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration_Committee/Discretionary_sanctions/2021-22_review#Administrative_provisions" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration Committee/Discretionary sanctions/2021-22 review">motion</a> at 21:36, 14 December 2022 (UTC)</i></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading3"><h3 id="Motion:_Removal_of_Unused_Contentious_Topics,_Medicine_(October_2023)" data-mw-thread-id="h-Motion:_Removal_of_Unused_Contentious_Topics,_Medicine_(October_2023)-Amendments"><span id="Motion:_Removal_of_Unused_Contentious_Topics.2C_Medicine_.28October_2023.29"></span><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Motion:_Removal_of_Unused_Contentious_Topics,_Medicine_(October_2023)-Amendments"></span>Motion: Removal of Unused Contentious Topics, Medicine (October 2023)<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Motion:_Removal_of_Unused_Contentious_Topics,_Medicine_(October_2023)-Amendments"></span></h3><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Medicine&action=edit&section=68" title="Edit section: Motion: Removal of Unused Contentious Topics, Medicine (October 2023)"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span></div> <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1256334245"><div class="ivmbox" style=""> <div class="ivmbox-text"> <p><a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#Contentious_topic_designation">Remedy 2</a> of <i>Medicine</i> ("Contentious topic designation") is rescinded. Any actions previously taken in accordance with the contentious topic authorization remain in force and are governed by the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:CTOP" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:CTOP">procedures</a>. </p> </div> </div> <dl><dd><i>Passed 7 to 0 with 2 abstentions by <a href="/wiki/Special:PermanentLink/1180830171#Motion:_Removal_of_Unused_Contentious_Topics,_Medicine" title="Special:PermanentLink/1180830171">motion</a> at 03:15, 19 October 2023 (UTC)</i></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Enforcement_log" data-mw-thread-id="h-Enforcement_log-Final_decision"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Enforcement_log-Final_decision"></span>Enforcement log<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Enforcement_log-Final_decision"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Medicine&action=edit&section=69" title="Edit section: Enforcement log"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span></div> <p><span class="anchor" id="Log_of_blocks,_bans,_and_restrictions"></span> <b>Any block, restriction, ban, or sanction performed under the authorisation of a remedy for this case must be logged at <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration_enforcement_log" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration enforcement log">Wikipedia:Arbitration enforcement log</a>, not here.</b> </p>    </div><noscript><img src="https://login.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:CentralAutoLogin/start?type=1x1" alt="" width="1" height="1" style="border: none; position: absolute;"></noscript> <div class="printfooter" data-nosnippet="">Retrieved from "<a dir="ltr" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Medicine&oldid=1180831915">https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Medicine&oldid=1180831915</a>"</div></div> <div id="catlinks" class="catlinks" data-mw="interface"><div id="mw-normal-catlinks" class="mw-normal-catlinks"><a href="/wiki/Help:Category" title="Help:Category">Category</a>: <ul><li><a href="/wiki/Category:Wikipedia_arbitration_cases" title="Category:Wikipedia arbitration cases">Wikipedia arbitration cases</a></li></ul></div><div id="mw-hidden-catlinks" class="mw-hidden-catlinks mw-hidden-cats-hidden">Hidden category: <ul><li><a href="/wiki/Category:Noindexed_pages" title="Category:Noindexed pages">Noindexed pages</a></li></ul></div></div> </div> </main> </div> <div class="mw-footer-container"> <footer id="footer" class="mw-footer" > <ul id="footer-info"> <li id="footer-info-lastmod"> This page was last edited on 19 October 2023, at 03:29<span class="anonymous-show"> (UTC)</span>.</li> <li id="footer-info-copyright">Text is available under the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Text_of_the_Creative_Commons_Attribution-ShareAlike_4.0_International_License" title="Wikipedia:Text of the Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike 4.0 International License">Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike 4.0 License</a>; additional terms may apply. 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