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.mw-parser-output .wpbs .wpb .wpb-main,html.skin-theme-clientpref-os .mw-parser-output .wpbs .wpb-header{background-color:#302f2d}html.skin-theme-clientpref-os .mw-parser-output .wpbs .banner-shell-inner{background-color:#2e2505}}</style><table class="tmbox tmbox-notice mw-collapsible innercollapse wpb wpb-table"><tbody><tr class="wpb-header"><td class="wpb-header-icon"><span typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Socrates.png" class="mw-file-description"><img alt="WikiProject icon" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/cd/Socrates.png/16px-Socrates.png" decoding="async" width="16" height="25" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/cd/Socrates.png/25px-Socrates.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/cd/Socrates.png/32px-Socrates.png 2x" data-file-width="326" data-file-height="500" /></a></span></td><td class="wpb-header-combined"><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Philosophy" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Philosophy">Philosophy</a><span class="wpb-nested-task-force">: <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Philosophy/Ethics" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Philosophy/Ethics">Ethics</a> / <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Philosophy/Social_and_political" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Philosophy/Social and political">Social and political</a></span> <span class="wpb-header-bubbles import-low">Low‑importance</span></td></tr><tr><td class="mbox-text wpb-main" colspan="2"><table><tbody><tr><td class="mbox-image wpb-image"><span typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Socrates.png" class="mw-file-description"><img alt="WikiProject icon" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/cd/Socrates.png/50px-Socrates.png" decoding="async" width="50" height="77" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/cd/Socrates.png/75px-Socrates.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/cd/Socrates.png/100px-Socrates.png 2x" data-file-width="326" data-file-height="500" /></a></span></td><td class="mbox-text"><style data-mw-deduplicate="TemplateStyles:r1266661725">.mw-parser-output .portalbox{padding:0;margin:0.5em 0;display:table;box-sizing:border-box;max-width:175px;list-style:none}.mw-parser-output .portalborder{border:1px solid var(--border-color-base,#a2a9b1);padding:0.1em;background:var(--background-color-neutral-subtle,#f8f9fa)}.mw-parser-output .portalbox-entry{display:table-row;font-size:85%;line-height:110%;height:1.9em;font-style:italic;font-weight:bold}.mw-parser-output .portalbox-image{display:table-cell;padding:0.2em;vertical-align:middle;text-align:center}.mw-parser-output .portalbox-link{display:table-cell;padding:0.2em 0.2em 0.2em 0.3em;vertical-align:middle}@media(min-width:720px){.mw-parser-output .portalleft{margin:0.5em 1em 0.5em 0}.mw-parser-output .portalright{clear:right;float:right;margin:0.5em 0 0.5em 1em}}</style><ul role="navigation" aria-label="Portals" class="noprint portalbox portalborder portalright"> <li class="portalbox-entry"><span class="portalbox-image"><span class="noviewer" typeof="mw:File"><span><img alt="" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/cd/Socrates.png/18px-Socrates.png" decoding="async" width="18" height="28" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/cd/Socrates.png/27px-Socrates.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/cd/Socrates.png/36px-Socrates.png 2x" data-file-width="326" data-file-height="500" /></span></span></span><span class="portalbox-link"><a href="/wiki/Portal:Philosophy" title="Portal:Philosophy">Philosophy portal</a></span></li></ul>This article is within the scope of <b><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Philosophy" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Philosophy">WikiProject Philosophy</a></b>, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of content related to <a href="/wiki/Philosophy" title="Philosophy">philosophy</a> on Wikipedia. If you would like to support the project, please visit the project page, where you can get more details on how you can help, and where you can join the <b><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Philosophy" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Philosophy">general discussion</a></b> about philosophy content on Wikipedia.<span class="metadata wpb-metadata"><span class="wpb-project">Philosophy</span><span class="wpb-project_link">Wikipedia:WikiProject Philosophy</span><span class="wpb-banner_name">Template:WikiProject Philosophy</span><span class="wpb-assessment_cat">Philosophy</span></span></td><td class="mbox-empty-cell"></td></tr><tr><td class="assess import-low"><a href="/wiki/Category:Low-importance_Philosophy_articles" title="Category:Low-importance Philosophy articles">Low</a></td><td class="mbox-text" colspan="2">This article has been rated as <b>Low-importance</b> on the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Philosophy/Assessment#Importance_scale" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Philosophy/Assessment">project's importance scale</a>.</td></tr><tr><td colspan="3" class="wpb-collapsed-notes"><table class="mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"><tbody><tr><th colspan="3" class="wpb-collapsed-head">Associated task forces:</th></tr><tr><td class="mbox-image wpb-gutter" style="min-width:50px"><span class="wpb-iefix">/ </span></td><td></td><td></td></tr><tr><td><figure class="mw-halign-center" typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Location_dot_darkred.svg" class="mw-file-description"><img alt="Taskforce icon" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/80/Location_dot_darkred.svg/15px-Location_dot_darkred.svg.png" decoding="async" width="15" height="15" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/80/Location_dot_darkred.svg/23px-Location_dot_darkred.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/80/Location_dot_darkred.svg/30px-Location_dot_darkred.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="64" data-file-height="64" /></a><figcaption></figcaption></figure></td><td class="mbox-text" colspan="2"><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Philosophy/Ethics" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Philosophy/Ethics">Ethics</a></td></tr><tr><td><figure class="mw-halign-center" typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Location_dot_darkred.svg" class="mw-file-description"><img alt="Taskforce icon" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/80/Location_dot_darkred.svg/15px-Location_dot_darkred.svg.png" decoding="async" width="15" height="15" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/80/Location_dot_darkred.svg/23px-Location_dot_darkred.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/80/Location_dot_darkred.svg/30px-Location_dot_darkred.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="64" data-file-height="64" /></a><figcaption></figcaption></figure></td><td class="mbox-text" colspan="2"><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Philosophy/Social_and_political" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Philosophy/Social and political">Social and political philosophy</a></td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr></tbody></table> <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1237879475" /><link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1259570071" /><table class="tmbox tmbox-notice mw-collapsible innercollapse wpb wpb-table"><tbody><tr class="wpb-header"><td class="wpb-header-icon"><span typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Greek_uc_psi_icon.svg" class="mw-file-description"><img alt="WikiProject icon" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/9e/Greek_uc_psi_icon.svg/27px-Greek_uc_psi_icon.svg.png" decoding="async" width="27" height="25" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/9e/Greek_uc_psi_icon.svg/40px-Greek_uc_psi_icon.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/9e/Greek_uc_psi_icon.svg/53px-Greek_uc_psi_icon.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="100" data-file-height="94" /></a></span></td><td class="wpb-header-combined"><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Psychology" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Psychology">Psychology</a> <span class="wpb-header-bubbles import-mid">Mid‑importance</span></td></tr><tr><td class="mbox-text wpb-main" colspan="2"><table><tbody><tr><td class="mbox-image wpb-image"><span typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Greek_uc_psi_icon.svg" class="mw-file-description"><img alt="WikiProject icon" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/9e/Greek_uc_psi_icon.svg/80px-Greek_uc_psi_icon.svg.png" decoding="async" width="80" height="75" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/9e/Greek_uc_psi_icon.svg/120px-Greek_uc_psi_icon.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/9e/Greek_uc_psi_icon.svg/160px-Greek_uc_psi_icon.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="100" data-file-height="94" /></a></span></td><td class="mbox-text"><link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1266661725" /><ul role="navigation" aria-label="Portals" class="noprint portalbox portalborder portalright"> <li class="portalbox-entry"><span class="portalbox-image"><span class="noviewer" typeof="mw:File"><span><img alt="" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/6c/Psi2.svg/28px-Psi2.svg.png" decoding="async" width="28" height="28" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/6c/Psi2.svg/42px-Psi2.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/6c/Psi2.svg/56px-Psi2.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="100" data-file-height="100" /></span></span></span><span class="portalbox-link"><a href="/wiki/Portal:Psychology" title="Portal:Psychology">Psychology portal</a></span></li></ul>This article is within the scope of <b><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Psychology" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Psychology">WikiProject Psychology</a></b>, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of <a href="/wiki/Psychology" title="Psychology">Psychology</a> on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Psychology" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Psychology">the discussion</a> and see a list of open tasks.<span class="metadata wpb-metadata"><span class="wpb-project">Psychology</span><span class="wpb-project_link">Wikipedia:WikiProject Psychology</span><span class="wpb-banner_name">Template:WikiProject Psychology</span><span class="wpb-assessment_cat">psychology</span></span></td><td class="mbox-empty-cell"></td></tr><tr><td class="assess import-mid"><a href="/wiki/Category:Mid-importance_psychology_articles" title="Category:Mid-importance psychology articles">Mid</a></td><td class="mbox-text" colspan="2">This article has been rated as <b>Mid-importance</b> on the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Psychology/Assessment#Importance_scale" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Psychology/Assessment">project's importance scale</a>.</td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr></tbody></table> <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1237879475" /><table class="plainlinks tmbox tmbox-notice" role="presentation"><tbody><tr><td class="mbox-image"><figure class="mw-halign-none" typeof="mw:File"><span><img alt="" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/8/80/Camera-photo.svg/40px-Camera-photo.svg.png" decoding="async" width="40" height="40" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/8/80/Camera-photo.svg/60px-Camera-photo.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/8/80/Camera-photo.svg/80px-Camera-photo.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="48" data-file-height="48" /></span><figcaption></figcaption></figure></td><td class="mbox-text">It is requested that an <b>image</b> or <b>photograph</b> of <b>Selfishness</b> be <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Uploading_images" title="Wikipedia:Uploading images">included</a> in this article to <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Article_development" title="Wikipedia:Article development">improve its quality</a>. Please replace this template with a more specific <a href="/wiki/Template:Media_request_templates" title="Template:Media request templates">media request template</a> where possible.<br /><small>The <a class="external text" href="https://fist.toolforge.org/fist.php?doit=1&language=en&project=wikipedia&data=Selfishness&datatype=articles&params%5Bcatdepth%5D=0&params%5Brandom%5D=50&params%5Bll_max%5D=5&params%5Bcommons_max%5D=5&params%5Bflickr_max%5D=5&params%5Binclude_flickr_id%5D=1&params%5Bwts_max%5D=5&params%5Bgimp_max%5D=5&params%5Besp_max%5D=5&params%5Besp_skip_flickr%5D=1&params%5Bgeograph_max%5D=5&params%5Bforarticles%5D=noimage&params%5Blessthan_images%5D=3&params%5Bdefault_thumbnail_size%5D=&params%5Bjpeg%5D=1&params%5Bpng%5D=1&params%5Bgif%5D=1&params%5Bsvg%5D=1&params%5Bogg%5D=1&params%5Bmin_width%5D=80&params%5Bmin_height%5D=80&sources%5Blanguagelinks%5D=1&sources%5Bcommons%5D=1&sources%5Bflickr%5D=1">Free Image Search Tool</a> or <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://openverse.org/?q=Selfishness&license=cc0,pdm,by,by-sa">Openverse Creative Commons Search</a> may be able to locate suitable images on <a href="/wiki/Flickr" title="Flickr">Flickr</a> and other web sites.</small></td><td class="mbox-imageright"><span class="plainlinks clickbutton"><a class="external text" href="https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/special:uploadWizard?&descriptionlang=en&description=%5B%5B%3Aen%3ASelfishness%7CSelfishness%5D%5D&categories=%7B%7B%7Bin%7D%7D%7D"><span class="mw-ui-button mw-ui-progressive">Upload</span></a></span></td></tr></tbody></table> <p> <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1237879475" /> </p> <table id="archivebox" role="presentation" class="tmbox tmbox-notice mbox-small" style="text-align: center; padding: 1em;"> <tbody><tr> <td style="padding:0.6em 0 0.25em;"> <div style="width:100%; overflow:hidden;"><span typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Replacement_filing_cabinet.svg" class="mw-file-description"><img alt="Archiving icon" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/2/2a/Replacement_filing_cabinet.svg/40px-Replacement_filing_cabinet.svg.png" decoding="async" width="40" height="40" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/2/2a/Replacement_filing_cabinet.svg/60px-Replacement_filing_cabinet.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/2/2a/Replacement_filing_cabinet.svg/80px-Replacement_filing_cabinet.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="200" data-file-height="200" /></a></span><br /><b>Archives</b></div> </td></tr><tr> <td class="plainlinks"> <p><a href="/wiki/Talk:Selfishness/Archive_1" title="Talk:Selfishness/Archive 1">1</a> </p> </td> </tr><tr><td style="padding-bottom:11px"><div class="mw-inputbox-centered" style=""><form name="searchbox" class="searchbox mw-inputbox-form" action="/wiki/Special:Search"><div class="cdx-text-input"><input class="mw-inputbox-input mw-searchInput searchboxInput cdx-text-input__input" name="search" placeholder="" size="22" dir="ltr" /></div><input type="hidden" value="Talk:Selfishness/" name="prefix" /><br /><input type="submit" name="fulltext" value="Search archives" class="cdx-button" /><input type="hidden" value="Search" name="fulltext" /></form></div> </td></tr><tr><td style="padding:0px 10px; font-size:11.9px;"> <hr /> This page has archives. Sections older than <b>365 days</b> may be automatically archived by <span class="nowraplinks"><a href="/wiki/User:Lowercase_sigmabot_III" title="User:Lowercase sigmabot III">Lowercase sigmabot III</a></span> when more than 5 sections are present.</td></tr> </tbody></table> <meta property="mw:PageProp/toc" /> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Game_theory_section" data-mw-thread-id="h-Game_theory_section-2013-12-15T06:14:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Game_theory_section-2013-12-15T06:14:00.000Z"></span>Game theory section<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Game_theory_section-2013-12-15T06:14:00.000Z"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Talk:Selfishness&action=edit&section=1" title="Edit section: Game theory section"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Paradoctor-2013-12-15T06:14:00.000Z-Game_theory_section"></span>I deleted it again after checking both sources; took me a bit to get ahold of the Palgrave. Result: altruism is defined, somewhat differently, in the SEP entry. Neither the classification nor the individual definitions are contained in either source. These sources do not support the statements in the article, as they have to per <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:BURDEN" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:BURDEN">WP:BURDEN</a>. Since we're concerned with selfishness here, the entire section is inappropriate. If you can find a reliable source supporting the definition of selfishness, please cite it. It is possible that I have overlooked something in the lengthy Palgrave entry, I do not have web access. In that case, please provide a page number/subsection heading and a quotation of the relevant passage, see <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:BURDEN" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:BURDEN">WP:BURDEN</a>. <a href="/wiki/User:Paradoctor" title="User:Paradoctor">Paradoctor</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Paradoctor" title="User talk:Paradoctor">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Selfishness#c-Paradoctor-2013-12-15T06:14:00.000Z-Game_theory_section" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">06:14, 15 December 2013 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Paradoctor-2013-12-15T06:14:00.000Z-Game_theory_section"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Paradoctor-2013-12-15T06:14:00.000Z-Game_theory_section"></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Proposed_merge_with_Egoism" data-mw-thread-id="h-Proposed_merge_with_Egoism-2018-02-06T15:41:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Proposed_merge_with_Egoism-2018-02-06T15:41:00.000Z"></span>Proposed merge with <a href="/wiki/Egoism" title="Egoism">Egoism</a><span data-mw-comment-end="h-Proposed_merge_with_Egoism-2018-02-06T15:41:00.000Z"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Talk:Selfishness&action=edit&section=2" title="Edit section: Proposed merge with Egoism"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <div class="boilerplate discussion-archived mw-archivedtalk" style="background-color: var(--background-color-progressive-subtle, #f5f3ef); color: var(--color-base, inherit); overflow:auto; margin: 1em 0 0 0; padding: 0 10px 0 10px; border: 1px solid var(--border-color-subtle, #aaa)"> <div class="boilerplate-header"> <dl><dd><i><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Mathmitch7-2018-05-10T08:21:00.000Z-Proposed_merge_with_Egoism"></span>The following discussion is closed. <span style="color:var(--color-error, red)"><b>Please do not modify it.</b></span> Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.</i> <i>A summary of the conclusions reached follows.</i> <dl><dd>The result of this discussion was to take no action for the time being an <b>not merge,</b> due to the reasons described by <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/174.24.15.101" title="Special:Contributions/174.24.15.101">174.24.15.101</a>. Instead, the two articles ought to be made more distinct. - - <b><a href="/wiki/User:Mathmitch7" title="User:Mathmitch7">mathmitch7</a></b> <sup>(<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Mathmitch7" title="User talk:Mathmitch7">talk</a>/<a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Mathmitch7" title="Special:Contributions/Mathmitch7">contribs</a>)</sup> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Selfishness#c-Mathmitch7-2018-05-10T08:21:00.000Z-Proposed_merge_with_Egoism" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">08:21, 10 May 2018 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Mathmitch7-2018-05-10T08:21:00.000Z-Proposed_merge_with_Egoism"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Mathmitch7-2018-05-10T08:21:00.000Z-Proposed_merge_with_Egoism"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl> <hr /> </div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Farang_Rak_Tham-2018-02-06T15:41:00.000Z-Proposed_merge_with_Egoism"></span>Content in this article is limited, and the two concepts are very similar. <a href="/wiki/User:Farang_Rak_Tham" title="User:Farang Rak Tham">Farang Rak Tham</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Farang_Rak_Tham" title="User talk:Farang Rak Tham">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Selfishness#c-Farang_Rak_Tham-2018-02-06T15:41:00.000Z-Proposed_merge_with_Egoism" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:41, 6 February 2018 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Farang_Rak_Tham-2018-02-06T15:41:00.000Z-Proposed_merge_with_Egoism"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Farang_Rak_Tham-2018-02-06T15:41:00.000Z-Proposed_merge_with_Egoism"></span> </p><p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-174.24.15.101-2018-02-11T01:34:00.000Z-Proposed_merge_with_Egoism"></span>- </p><p>Absolutely not. The concepts are completely different and are already confused far too frequently. While the <a href="/wiki/Egoism" title="Egoism">Egoism</a> page lacks much of its own content, note how it links to the pages <a href="/wiki/Ethical_egoism" title="Ethical egoism">Ethical egoism</a>, <a href="/wiki/Psychological_egoism" title="Psychological egoism">Psychological egoism</a>, <a href="/wiki/Rational_egoism" title="Rational egoism">Rational egoism</a>, etc. </p><p>I feel that there is already much detraction in page quality due to the common notion that any word remotely connected to egotistic or egocentric should be immediately taken to mean the same thing, with images of an arrogant, selfish prick coming to mind. "Egotism" already describes that fine, and it needs to be recognized that "egoism" refers to something else. For example, someone may believe in psychological egoism and describe themselves as egoistic, but be extremely altruistic and caring towards others. They would simply believe that their actions are ultimately derived from self-interest, perhaps to improve their mood or increase social lability. </p><p>The first sentence of the <a href="/wiki/Psychological_egoism" title="Psychological egoism">Psychological egoism</a> page: "Psychological egoism is the view that humans are always motivated by self-interest, <b>even in what seem to be acts of altruism</b>." </p><p>The second sentence of the <a href="/wiki/Selfishness" title="Selfishness">Selfishness</a> page: "Selfishness is the opposite of altruism[.]" </p><p>Why on earth would these different and contrasting concepts ever be merged? <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/174.24.15.101" title="Special:Contributions/174.24.15.101">174.24.15.101</a> (<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:174.24.15.101&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User talk:174.24.15.101 (page does not exist)">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Selfishness#c-174.24.15.101-2018-02-11T01:34:00.000Z-Proposed_merge_with_Egoism" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:34, 11 February 2018 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-174.24.15.101-2018-02-11T01:34:00.000Z-Proposed_merge_with_Egoism"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-174.24.15.101-2018-02-11T01:34:00.000Z-Proposed_merge_with_Egoism"></span> </p><p><b><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Mathmitch7-2018-05-10T08:15:00.000Z-Proposed_merge_with_Egoism"></span>Strong oppose</b> egoism is not selfishness, I believe this is apparent from the articles in their current form. Given the lack of discussion on this, I'm closing the proposed merge. - - <b><a href="/wiki/User:Mathmitch7" title="User:Mathmitch7">mathmitch7</a></b> <sup>(<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Mathmitch7" title="User talk:Mathmitch7">talk</a>/<a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Mathmitch7" title="Special:Contributions/Mathmitch7">contribs</a>)</sup> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Selfishness#c-Mathmitch7-2018-05-10T08:15:00.000Z-Proposed_merge_with_Egoism" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">08:15, 10 May 2018 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Mathmitch7-2018-05-10T08:15:00.000Z-Proposed_merge_with_Egoism"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Mathmitch7-2018-05-10T08:15:00.000Z-Proposed_merge_with_Egoism"></span> </p> <div style="padding-left: 1.6em; font-style: italic; border-top: 1px solid #a2a9b1; margin: 0.5em 0; padding-top: 0.5em">The discussion above is closed. <b style="color: var(--color-error, red);">Please do not modify it.</b> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.</div> </div><div style="clear:both;" class=""></div> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Unclear_term_"commercial_society"" data-mw-thread-id="h-Unclear_term_"commercial_society"-20221114080500"><span id="Unclear_term_.22commercial_society.22"></span><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Unclear_term_"commercial_society"-20221114080500"></span>Unclear term "commercial society"<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Unclear_term_"commercial_society"-20221114080500"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Talk:Selfishness&action=edit&section=3" title="Edit section: Unclear term "commercial society""><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-2A00:23C6:549D:C301:5D9E:1F2E:F4E9:BCFC-20221114080500-Unclear_term_"commercial_society""></span>The phrase "With the emergence of a commercial society, Bernard Mandevile proposed etc" is undefined. By implication it seems to be the British or Dutch society, and perhaps during the lifetime of Mandeville (1670-1733), but perhaps not. Could someone clarify please, or even better provide a Wikipedia link to a "commercial society"? <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/2A00:23C6:549D:C301:5D9E:1F2E:F4E9:BCFC" title="Special:Contributions/2A00:23C6:549D:C301:5D9E:1F2E:F4E9:BCFC">2A00:23C6:549D:C301:5D9E:1F2E:F4E9:BCFC</a> (<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:2A00:23C6:549D:C301:5D9E:1F2E:F4E9:BCFC&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User talk:2A00:23C6:549D:C301:5D9E:1F2E:F4E9:BCFC (page does not exist)">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Selfishness#c-2A00:23C6:549D:C301:5D9E:1F2E:F4E9:BCFC-20221114080500-Unclear_term_"commercial_society"" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">08:05, 14 November 2022 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-2A00:23C6:549D:C301:5D9E:1F2E:F4E9:BCFC-20221114080500-Unclear_term_"commercial_society""><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-2A00:23C6:549D:C301:5D9E:1F2E:F4E9:BCFC-20221114080500-Unclear_term_"commercial_society""></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Wiki_Education_assignment:_BISC_2_Genetics,_Ecology,_and_Evolution" data-mw-thread-id="h-Wiki_Education_assignment:_BISC_2_Genetics,_Ecology,_and_Evolution-20231110220900"><span id="Wiki_Education_assignment:_BISC_2_Genetics.2C_Ecology.2C_and_Evolution"></span><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Wiki_Education_assignment:_BISC_2_Genetics,_Ecology,_and_Evolution-20231110220900"></span>Wiki Education assignment: BISC 2 Genetics, Ecology, and Evolution<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Wiki_Education_assignment:_BISC_2_Genetics,_Ecology,_and_Evolution-20231110220900"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Talk:Selfishness&action=edit&section=4" title="Edit section: Wiki Education assignment: BISC 2 Genetics, Ecology, and Evolution"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-20carnesa-20231110220900-Wiki_Education_assignment:_BISC_2_Genetics,_Ecology,_and_Evolution"></span><span typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Sciences_humaines.svg" class="mw-file-description"><img src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/3f/Sciences_humaines.svg/40px-Sciences_humaines.svg.png" decoding="async" width="40" height="40" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/3f/Sciences_humaines.svg/60px-Sciences_humaines.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/3f/Sciences_humaines.svg/80px-Sciences_humaines.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="256" data-file-height="256" /></a></span> This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between <span class="mw-formatted-date" title="2023-08-21">21 August 2023</span> and <span class="mw-formatted-date" title="2023-12-15">15 December 2023</span>. Further details are available <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Wiki_Ed/Penn_State_University_-_Behrend/BISC_2_Genetics,_Ecology,_and_Evolution_(Fall_2023)" title="Wikipedia:Wiki Ed/Penn State University - Behrend/BISC 2 Genetics, Ecology, and Evolution (Fall 2023)">on the course page</a>. Student editor(s): <a href="/wiki/User:Tmx5027" title="User:Tmx5027">Tmx5027</a> (<a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://xtools.wmflabs.org/topedits/en.wikipedia.org/Tmx5027/0/Selfishness">article contribs</a>). Peer reviewers: <a href="/wiki/User:IRiptide" title="User:IRiptide">IRiptide</a>, <a href="/wiki/User:JoeDer415" title="User:JoeDer415">JoeDer415</a>. </p><p><span class="wikied-assignment" style="font-size:85%;">— Assignment last updated by <a href="/wiki/User:20carnesa" title="User:20carnesa">20carnesa</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:20carnesa" title="User talk:20carnesa">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Selfishness#c-20carnesa-20231110220900-Wiki_Education_assignment:_BISC_2_Genetics,_Ecology,_and_Evolution" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:09, 10 November 2023 (UTC)</a></span><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-20carnesa-20231110220900-Wiki_Education_assignment:_BISC_2_Genetics,_Ecology,_and_Evolution"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-20carnesa-20231110220900-Wiki_Education_assignment:_BISC_2_Genetics,_Ecology,_and_Evolution"></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Perspective_in_ecology" data-mw-thread-id="h-Perspective_in_ecology-20231020205300"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Perspective_in_ecology-20231020205300"></span>Perspective in ecology<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Perspective_in_ecology-20231020205300"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Talk:Selfishness&action=edit&section=5" title="Edit section: Perspective in ecology"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Tmx5027-20231020205300-Perspective_in_ecology"></span>In ecology, species sometimes would cooperate each other, which would considers as a mutualistic behavior. But species choose to have mutualistic behaviors, because the mutualistic behaviors could provide them more benefits to fit in the environment, which ultimately is a selfishness behavior. For example, animal cooperation exists in wild dogs community. They hunt together, for hunt large mammals easier. During the hunting, each individuals would have specific roles, like chase the prey toward a cliff and make other individuals easy to hunt. <a href="/wiki/User:Tmx5027" title="User:Tmx5027">Tmx5027</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Tmx5027" title="User talk:Tmx5027">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Selfishness#c-Tmx5027-20231020205300-Perspective_in_ecology" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:53, 20 October 2023 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Tmx5027-20231020205300-Perspective_in_ecology"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Tmx5027-20231020205300-Perspective_in_ecology"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Hamamelis-20241120134000-Tmx5027-20231020205300"></span>The example used isn't an example of <a href="/wiki/Mutualism_(biology)" title="Mutualism (biology)">mutualism</a>, as mutualism describes a relationship <i><style data-mw-deduplicate="TemplateStyles:r1248585704">@media screen{html.skin-theme-clientpref-night .mw-parser-output .inline-quote-talk{color:#00B785}}@media screen and (prefers-color-scheme:dark){html.skin-theme-clientpref-os .mw-parser-output .inline-quote-talk{color:#00B785}}.mw-parser-output .inline-quote-talk{font-family:Georgia,"DejaVu Serif",serif;color:#008560;quotes:none}.mw-parser-output .inline-quote-talk-italic{font-family:inherit;font-style:italic}.mw-parser-output .inline-quote-talk-marks{quotes:"\"""\""}</style><q class="inline-quote-talk">between two or more species.</q></i> Wild dogs are <i><link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1248585704" /><q class="inline-quote-talk">one species</q></i> that have a <a href="/wiki/Cooperation" title="Cooperation">cooperative</a> relationship among members of the same species. It is true that each participating dog potentially benefits from its cooperating behavior (and that any one dog alone couldn't accomplish what a pack can in cooperation) and so, could be considered a self-interested party. But then the article section should be re-written to either give an actual example of mutualism, or use the current example to show how cooperation can be shown to display selfish behavior. Or, <i>both</i> can be used.</dd> <dd>By the way, since the link through Yuzu no longer works, I found an alternative link through the internet archive, here, (chapter 12.2, pages 267-272) -->> <a rel="nofollow" class="external free" href="https://archive.org/details/ecologyevolution0000kroh/page/267/mode/2up?view=theater">https://archive.org/details/ecologyevolution0000kroh/page/267/mode/2up?view=theater</a></dd></dl> <dl><dd><a href="/wiki/User:Hamamelis" title="User:Hamamelis">Hamamelis</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Hamamelis" title="User talk:Hamamelis">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Selfishness#c-Hamamelis-20241120134000-Tmx5027-20231020205300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">13:40, 20 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Hamamelis-20241120134000-Tmx5027-20231020205300"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Hamamelis-20241120134000-Tmx5027-20231020205300"></span></dd></dl>    </div><noscript><img src="https://login.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:CentralAutoLogin/start?useformat=desktop&type=1x1&usesul3=0" alt="" width="1" height="1" style="border: none; position: absolute;"></noscript> <div class="printfooter" data-nosnippet="">Retrieved from "<a dir="ltr" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Selfishness&oldid=1258578986">https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Selfishness&oldid=1258578986</a>"</div></div> <div id="catlinks" class="catlinks" data-mw="interface"><div id="mw-normal-catlinks" class="mw-normal-catlinks"><a href="/wiki/Help:Category" title="Help:Category">Categories</a>: <ul><li><a href="/wiki/Category:C-Class_Philosophy_articles" title="Category:C-Class Philosophy articles">C-Class Philosophy articles</a></li><li><a href="/wiki/Category:Low-importance_Philosophy_articles" title="Category:Low-importance Philosophy articles">Low-importance Philosophy articles</a></li><li><a href="/wiki/Category:C-Class_ethics_articles" title="Category:C-Class ethics articles">C-Class ethics articles</a></li><li><a href="/wiki/Category:Low-importance_ethics_articles" title="Category:Low-importance ethics articles">Low-importance ethics articles</a></li><li><a href="/wiki/Category:Ethics_task_force_articles" title="Category:Ethics task force articles">Ethics task force articles</a></li><li><a href="/wiki/Category:C-Class_social_and_political_philosophy_articles" title="Category:C-Class social and political philosophy articles">C-Class social and political philosophy articles</a></li><li><a href="/wiki/Category:Low-importance_social_and_political_philosophy_articles" title="Category:Low-importance social and political philosophy articles">Low-importance social and political philosophy articles</a></li><li><a href="/wiki/Category:Social_and_political_philosophy_task_force_articles" title="Category:Social and political philosophy task force articles">Social and political philosophy task force articles</a></li><li><a href="/wiki/Category:C-Class_psychology_articles" title="Category:C-Class psychology articles">C-Class psychology articles</a></li><li><a href="/wiki/Category:Mid-importance_psychology_articles" title="Category:Mid-importance psychology articles">Mid-importance psychology articles</a></li><li><a href="/wiki/Category:WikiProject_Psychology_articles" title="Category:WikiProject Psychology articles">WikiProject Psychology articles</a></li><li><a href="/wiki/Category:Wikipedia_requested_images" title="Category:Wikipedia requested images">Wikipedia requested images</a></li></ul></div></div> </div> </main> </div> <div class="mw-footer-container"> <footer id="footer" class="mw-footer" > <ul id="footer-info"> <li id="footer-info-lastmod"> This page was last edited on 20 November 2024, at 13:52<span class="anonymous-show"> (UTC)</span>.</li> <li id="footer-info-copyright">Text is available under the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Text_of_the_Creative_Commons_Attribution-ShareAlike_4.0_International_License" title="Wikipedia:Text of the Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike 4.0 International License">Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike 4.0 License</a>; additional terms may apply. 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