CINXE.COM

<!DOCTYPE html> <html class="client-nojs vector-feature-language-in-header-enabled vector-feature-language-in-main-page-header-disabled vector-feature-sticky-header-disabled vector-feature-page-tools-pinned-disabled vector-feature-toc-pinned-clientpref-1 vector-feature-main-menu-pinned-disabled vector-feature-limited-width-clientpref-1 vector-feature-limited-width-content-enabled vector-feature-custom-font-size-clientpref-1 vector-feature-appearance-pinned-clientpref-1 vector-feature-night-mode-enabled skin-theme-clientpref-day vector-toc-available" lang="en" dir="ltr"> <head> <meta charset="UTF-8"> <title>Wikipedia:Reference desk/Miscellaneous - Wikipedia</title> <script>(function(){var className="client-js vector-feature-language-in-header-enabled vector-feature-language-in-main-page-header-disabled vector-feature-sticky-header-disabled vector-feature-page-tools-pinned-disabled vector-feature-toc-pinned-clientpref-1 vector-feature-main-menu-pinned-disabled vector-feature-limited-width-clientpref-1 vector-feature-limited-width-content-enabled vector-feature-custom-font-size-clientpref-1 vector-feature-appearance-pinned-clientpref-1 vector-feature-night-mode-enabled skin-theme-clientpref-day vector-toc-available";var cookie=document.cookie.match(/(?:^|; )enwikimwclientpreferences=([^;]+)/);if(cookie){cookie[1].split('%2C').forEach(function(pref){className=className.replace(new RegExp('(^| )'+pref.replace(/-clientpref-\w+$|[^\w-]+/g,'')+'-clientpref-\\w+( |$)'),'$1'+pref+'$2');});}document.documentElement.className=className;}());RLCONF={"wgBreakFrames":false,"wgSeparatorTransformTable":["",""],"wgDigitTransformTable":["",""],"wgDefaultDateFormat":"dmy", "wgMonthNames":["","January","February","March","April","May","June","July","August","September","October","November","December"],"wgRequestId":"4dcb450a-8c5d-4649-ba90-f53f3b61aea3","wgCanonicalNamespace":"Project","wgCanonicalSpecialPageName":false,"wgNamespaceNumber":4,"wgPageName":"Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Miscellaneous","wgTitle":"Reference desk/Miscellaneous","wgCurRevisionId":1259397779,"wgRevisionId":1259397779,"wgArticleId":40297,"wgIsArticle":true,"wgIsRedirect":false,"wgAction":"view","wgUserName":null,"wgUserGroups":["*"],"wgCategories":["Non-talk pages that are automatically signed","Pages automatically checked for incorrect links","Wikipedia help pages with dated sections","Wikipedia resources for researchers","Wikipedia help forums","Wikipedia reference desk"],"wgPageViewLanguage":"en","wgPageContentLanguage":"en","wgPageContentModel":"wikitext","wgRelevantPageName":"Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Miscellaneous","wgRelevantArticleId":40297,"wgIsProbablyEditable":true, "wgRelevantPageIsProbablyEditable":true,"wgRestrictionEdit":[],"wgRestrictionMove":["sysop"],"wgNoticeProject":"wikipedia","wgCiteReferencePreviewsActive":false,"wgFlaggedRevsParams":{"tags":{"status":{"levels":1}}},"wgMediaViewerOnClick":true,"wgMediaViewerEnabledByDefault":true,"wgPopupsFlags":0,"wgVisualEditor":{"pageLanguageCode":"en","pageLanguageDir":"ltr","pageVariantFallbacks":"en"},"wgMFDisplayWikibaseDescriptions":{"search":true,"watchlist":true,"tagline":false,"nearby":true},"wgWMESchemaEditAttemptStepOversample":false,"wgWMEPageLength":40000,"wgRelatedArticlesCompat":[],"wgCentralAuthMobileDomain":false,"wgEditSubmitButtonLabelPublish":true,"wgDiscussionToolsFeaturesEnabled":{"replytool":true,"newtopictool":true,"sourcemodetoolbar":true,"topicsubscription":false,"autotopicsub":false,"visualenhancements":false,"visualenhancements_reply":false,"visualenhancements_pageframe":false},"wgDiscussionToolsFallbackEditMode":"source","wgULSPosition":"interlanguage", "wgULSisCompactLinksEnabled":false,"wgVector2022LanguageInHeader":true,"wgULSisLanguageSelectorEmpty":false,"wgWikibaseItemId":"Q27555415","wgCheckUserClientHintsHeadersJsApi":["brands","architecture","bitness","fullVersionList","mobile","model","platform","platformVersion"],"GEHomepageSuggestedEditsEnableTopics":true,"wgGETopicsMatchModeEnabled":false,"wgGEStructuredTaskRejectionReasonTextInputEnabled":false,"wgGELevelingUpEnabledForUser":false};RLSTATE={"ext.globalCssJs.user.styles":"ready","site.styles":"ready","user.styles":"ready","ext.globalCssJs.user":"ready","user":"ready","user.options":"loading","ext.inputBox.styles":"ready","ext.discussionTools.init.styles":"ready","oojs-ui-core.styles":"ready","oojs-ui.styles.indicators":"ready","mediawiki.widgets.styles":"ready","oojs-ui-core.icons":"ready","skins.vector.search.codex.styles":"ready","skins.vector.styles":"ready","skins.vector.icons":"ready","mediawiki.ui.button":"ready","ext.wikimediamessages.styles":"ready", "ext.visualEditor.desktopArticleTarget.noscript":"ready","ext.uls.interlanguage":"ready","wikibase.client.init":"ready","ext.wikimediaBadges":"ready"};RLPAGEMODULES=["mediawiki.page.media","site","mediawiki.page.ready","mediawiki.toc","skins.vector.js","ext.centralNotice.geoIP","ext.centralNotice.startUp","ext.gadget.ReferenceTooltips","ext.gadget.switcher","ext.urlShortener.toolbar","ext.centralauth.centralautologin","mmv.bootstrap","ext.popups","ext.visualEditor.desktopArticleTarget.init","ext.visualEditor.targetLoader","ext.echo.centralauth","ext.discussionTools.init","ext.eventLogging","ext.wikimediaEvents","ext.navigationTiming","ext.uls.interface","ext.cx.eventlogging.campaigns","wikibase.client.vector-2022","ext.checkUser.clientHints","wikibase.sidebar.tracking"];</script> <script>(RLQ=window.RLQ||[]).push(function(){mw.loader.impl(function(){return["user.options@12s5i",function($,jQuery,require,module){mw.user.tokens.set({"patrolToken":"+\\","watchToken":"+\\","csrfToken":"+\\"}); }];});});</script> <link rel="stylesheet" href="/w/load.php?lang=en&modules=ext.discussionTools.init.styles%7Cext.inputBox.styles%7Cext.uls.interlanguage%7Cext.visualEditor.desktopArticleTarget.noscript%7Cext.wikimediaBadges%7Cext.wikimediamessages.styles%7Cmediawiki.ui.button%7Cmediawiki.widgets.styles%7Coojs-ui-core.icons%2Cstyles%7Coojs-ui.styles.indicators%7Cskins.vector.icons%2Cstyles%7Cskins.vector.search.codex.styles%7Cwikibase.client.init&only=styles&skin=vector-2022"> <script async="" src="/w/load.php?lang=en&modules=startup&only=scripts&raw=1&skin=vector-2022"></script> <meta name="ResourceLoaderDynamicStyles" content=""> <link rel="stylesheet" href="/w/load.php?lang=en&modules=site.styles&only=styles&skin=vector-2022"> <meta name="generator" content="MediaWiki 1.44.0-wmf.4"> <meta name="referrer" content="origin"> <meta name="referrer" content="origin-when-cross-origin"> <meta name="robots" content="max-image-preview:standard"> <meta name="format-detection" content="telephone=no"> <meta name="viewport" content="width=1120"> <meta property="og:title" content="Wikipedia:Reference desk/Miscellaneous - Wikipedia"> <meta property="og:type" content="website"> <link rel="preconnect" href="//upload.wikimedia.org"> <link rel="alternate" media="only screen and (max-width: 640px)" href="//en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Miscellaneous"> <link rel="alternate" type="application/x-wiki" title="Edit this page" href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Miscellaneous&action=edit"> <link rel="apple-touch-icon" href="/static/apple-touch/wikipedia.png"> <link rel="icon" href="/static/favicon/wikipedia.ico"> <link rel="search" type="application/opensearchdescription+xml" href="/w/rest.php/v1/search" title="Wikipedia (en)"> <link rel="EditURI" type="application/rsd+xml" href="//en.wikipedia.org/w/api.php?action=rsd"> <link rel="canonical" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Miscellaneous"> <link rel="license" href="https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/deed.en"> <link rel="alternate" type="application/atom+xml" title="Wikipedia Atom feed" href="/w/index.php?title=Special:RecentChanges&feed=atom"> <link rel="dns-prefetch" href="//meta.wikimedia.org" /> <link rel="dns-prefetch" href="//login.wikimedia.org"> </head> <body class="ext-discussiontools-replytool-enabled ext-discussiontools-newtopictool-enabled ext-discussiontools-sourcemodetoolbar-enabled skin--responsive skin-vector skin-vector-search-vue mediawiki ltr sitedir-ltr mw-hide-empty-elt ns-4 ns-subject mw-editable page-Wikipedia_Reference_desk_Miscellaneous rootpage-Wikipedia_Reference_desk skin-vector-2022 action-view"><a class="mw-jump-link" href="#bodyContent">Jump to content</a> <div class="vector-header-container"> <header class="vector-header mw-header"> <div class="vector-header-start"> <nav class="vector-main-menu-landmark" aria-label="Site"> <div id="vector-main-menu-dropdown" class="vector-dropdown vector-main-menu-dropdown vector-button-flush-left vector-button-flush-right" > <input type="checkbox" id="vector-main-menu-dropdown-checkbox" role="button" aria-haspopup="true" data-event-name="ui.dropdown-vector-main-menu-dropdown" class="vector-dropdown-checkbox " aria-label="Main menu" > <label id="vector-main-menu-dropdown-label" for="vector-main-menu-dropdown-checkbox" class="vector-dropdown-label cdx-button cdx-button--fake-button cdx-button--fake-button--enabled cdx-button--weight-quiet cdx-button--icon-only " aria-hidden="true" ><span class="vector-icon mw-ui-icon-menu mw-ui-icon-wikimedia-menu"></span> <span class="vector-dropdown-label-text">Main menu</span> </label> <div class="vector-dropdown-content"> <div id="vector-main-menu-unpinned-container" class="vector-unpinned-container"> <div id="vector-main-menu" class="vector-main-menu vector-pinnable-element"> <div class="vector-pinnable-header vector-main-menu-pinnable-header vector-pinnable-header-unpinned" data-feature-name="main-menu-pinned" data-pinnable-element-id="vector-main-menu" data-pinned-container-id="vector-main-menu-pinned-container" data-unpinned-container-id="vector-main-menu-unpinned-container" > <div class="vector-pinnable-header-label">Main menu</div> <button class="vector-pinnable-header-toggle-button vector-pinnable-header-pin-button" data-event-name="pinnable-header.vector-main-menu.pin">move to sidebar</button> <button class="vector-pinnable-header-toggle-button vector-pinnable-header-unpin-button" data-event-name="pinnable-header.vector-main-menu.unpin">hide</button> </div> <div id="p-navigation" class="vector-menu mw-portlet mw-portlet-navigation" > <div class="vector-menu-heading"> Navigation </div> <div class="vector-menu-content"> <ul class="vector-menu-content-list"> <li id="n-mainpage-description" class="mw-list-item"><a href="/wiki/Main_Page" title="Visit the main page [z]" accesskey="z"><span>Main page</span></a></li><li id="n-contents" class="mw-list-item"><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Contents" title="Guides to browsing Wikipedia"><span>Contents</span></a></li><li id="n-currentevents" class="mw-list-item"><a href="/wiki/Portal:Current_events" title="Articles related to current events"><span>Current events</span></a></li><li id="n-randompage" class="mw-list-item"><a href="/wiki/Special:Random" title="Visit a randomly selected article [x]" accesskey="x"><span>Random article</span></a></li><li id="n-aboutsite" class="mw-list-item"><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:About" title="Learn about Wikipedia and how it works"><span>About Wikipedia</span></a></li><li id="n-contactpage" class="mw-list-item"><a href="//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Contact_us" title="How to contact Wikipedia"><span>Contact us</span></a></li> </ul> </div> </div> <div id="p-interaction" class="vector-menu mw-portlet mw-portlet-interaction" > <div class="vector-menu-heading"> Contribute </div> <div class="vector-menu-content"> <ul class="vector-menu-content-list"> <li id="n-help" class="mw-list-item"><a href="/wiki/Help:Contents" title="Guidance on how to use and edit Wikipedia"><span>Help</span></a></li><li id="n-introduction" class="mw-list-item"><a href="/wiki/Help:Introduction" title="Learn how to edit Wikipedia"><span>Learn to edit</span></a></li><li id="n-portal" class="mw-list-item"><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Community_portal" title="The hub for editors"><span>Community portal</span></a></li><li id="n-recentchanges" class="mw-list-item"><a href="/wiki/Special:RecentChanges" title="A list of recent changes to Wikipedia [r]" accesskey="r"><span>Recent changes</span></a></li><li id="n-upload" class="mw-list-item"><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:File_upload_wizard" title="Add images or other media for use on Wikipedia"><span>Upload file</span></a></li> </ul> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </nav> <a href="/wiki/Main_Page" class="mw-logo"> <img class="mw-logo-icon" src="/static/images/icons/wikipedia.png" alt="" aria-hidden="true" height="50" width="50"> <span class="mw-logo-container skin-invert"> <img class="mw-logo-wordmark" alt="Wikipedia" src="/static/images/mobile/copyright/wikipedia-wordmark-en.svg" style="width: 7.5em; height: 1.125em;"> <img class="mw-logo-tagline" alt="The Free Encyclopedia" src="/static/images/mobile/copyright/wikipedia-tagline-en.svg" width="117" height="13" style="width: 7.3125em; height: 0.8125em;"> </span> </a> </div> <div class="vector-header-end"> <div id="p-search" role="search" class="vector-search-box-vue vector-search-box-collapses vector-search-box-show-thumbnail vector-search-box-auto-expand-width vector-search-box"> <a href="/wiki/Special:Search" class="cdx-button cdx-button--fake-button cdx-button--fake-button--enabled cdx-button--weight-quiet cdx-button--icon-only search-toggle" title="Search Wikipedia [f]" accesskey="f"><span class="vector-icon mw-ui-icon-search mw-ui-icon-wikimedia-search"></span> <span>Search</span> </a> <div class="vector-typeahead-search-container"> <div class="cdx-typeahead-search cdx-typeahead-search--show-thumbnail cdx-typeahead-search--auto-expand-width"> <form action="/w/index.php" id="searchform" class="cdx-search-input cdx-search-input--has-end-button"> <div id="simpleSearch" class="cdx-search-input__input-wrapper" data-search-loc="header-moved"> <div class="cdx-text-input cdx-text-input--has-start-icon"> <input class="cdx-text-input__input" type="search" name="search" placeholder="Search Wikipedia" aria-label="Search Wikipedia" autocapitalize="sentences" title="Search Wikipedia [f]" accesskey="f" id="searchInput" > <span class="cdx-text-input__icon cdx-text-input__start-icon"></span> </div> <input type="hidden" name="title" value="Special:Search"> </div> <button class="cdx-button cdx-search-input__end-button">Search</button> </form> </div> </div> </div> <nav class="vector-user-links vector-user-links-wide" aria-label="Personal tools"> <div class="vector-user-links-main"> <div id="p-vector-user-menu-preferences" class="vector-menu mw-portlet emptyPortlet" > <div class="vector-menu-content"> <ul class="vector-menu-content-list"> </ul> </div> </div> <div id="p-vector-user-menu-userpage" class="vector-menu mw-portlet emptyPortlet" > <div class="vector-menu-content"> <ul class="vector-menu-content-list"> </ul> </div> </div> <nav class="vector-appearance-landmark" aria-label="Appearance"> <div id="vector-appearance-dropdown" class="vector-dropdown " title="Change the appearance of the page's font size, width, and color" > <input type="checkbox" id="vector-appearance-dropdown-checkbox" role="button" aria-haspopup="true" data-event-name="ui.dropdown-vector-appearance-dropdown" class="vector-dropdown-checkbox " aria-label="Appearance" > <label id="vector-appearance-dropdown-label" for="vector-appearance-dropdown-checkbox" class="vector-dropdown-label cdx-button cdx-button--fake-button cdx-button--fake-button--enabled cdx-button--weight-quiet cdx-button--icon-only " aria-hidden="true" ><span class="vector-icon mw-ui-icon-appearance mw-ui-icon-wikimedia-appearance"></span> <span class="vector-dropdown-label-text">Appearance</span> </label> <div class="vector-dropdown-content"> <div id="vector-appearance-unpinned-container" class="vector-unpinned-container"> </div> </div> </div> </nav> <div id="p-vector-user-menu-notifications" class="vector-menu mw-portlet emptyPortlet" > <div class="vector-menu-content"> <ul class="vector-menu-content-list"> </ul> </div> </div> <div id="p-vector-user-menu-overflow" class="vector-menu mw-portlet" > <div class="vector-menu-content"> <ul class="vector-menu-content-list"> <li id="pt-sitesupport-2" class="user-links-collapsible-item mw-list-item user-links-collapsible-item"><a data-mw="interface" href="https://donate.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:FundraiserRedirector?utm_source=donate&utm_medium=sidebar&utm_campaign=C13_en.wikipedia.org&uselang=en" class=""><span>Donate</span></a> </li> <li id="pt-createaccount-2" class="user-links-collapsible-item mw-list-item user-links-collapsible-item"><a data-mw="interface" href="/w/index.php?title=Special:CreateAccount&returnto=Wikipedia%3AReference+desk%2FMiscellaneous" title="You are encouraged to create an account and log in; however, it is not mandatory" class=""><span>Create account</span></a> </li> <li id="pt-login-2" class="user-links-collapsible-item mw-list-item user-links-collapsible-item"><a data-mw="interface" href="/w/index.php?title=Special:UserLogin&returnto=Wikipedia%3AReference+desk%2FMiscellaneous" title="You're encouraged to log in; however, it's not mandatory. [o]" accesskey="o" class=""><span>Log in</span></a> </li> </ul> </div> </div> </div> <div id="vector-user-links-dropdown" class="vector-dropdown vector-user-menu vector-button-flush-right vector-user-menu-logged-out" title="Log in and more options" > <input type="checkbox" id="vector-user-links-dropdown-checkbox" role="button" aria-haspopup="true" data-event-name="ui.dropdown-vector-user-links-dropdown" class="vector-dropdown-checkbox " aria-label="Personal tools" > <label id="vector-user-links-dropdown-label" for="vector-user-links-dropdown-checkbox" class="vector-dropdown-label cdx-button cdx-button--fake-button cdx-button--fake-button--enabled cdx-button--weight-quiet cdx-button--icon-only " aria-hidden="true" ><span class="vector-icon mw-ui-icon-ellipsis mw-ui-icon-wikimedia-ellipsis"></span> <span class="vector-dropdown-label-text">Personal tools</span> </label> <div class="vector-dropdown-content"> <div id="p-personal" class="vector-menu mw-portlet mw-portlet-personal user-links-collapsible-item" title="User menu" > <div class="vector-menu-content"> <ul class="vector-menu-content-list"> <li id="pt-sitesupport" class="user-links-collapsible-item mw-list-item"><a href="https://donate.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:FundraiserRedirector?utm_source=donate&utm_medium=sidebar&utm_campaign=C13_en.wikipedia.org&uselang=en"><span>Donate</span></a></li><li id="pt-createaccount" class="user-links-collapsible-item mw-list-item"><a href="/w/index.php?title=Special:CreateAccount&returnto=Wikipedia%3AReference+desk%2FMiscellaneous" title="You are encouraged to create an account and log in; however, it is not mandatory"><span class="vector-icon mw-ui-icon-userAdd mw-ui-icon-wikimedia-userAdd"></span> <span>Create account</span></a></li><li id="pt-login" class="user-links-collapsible-item mw-list-item"><a href="/w/index.php?title=Special:UserLogin&returnto=Wikipedia%3AReference+desk%2FMiscellaneous" title="You're encouraged to log in; however, it's not mandatory. [o]" accesskey="o"><span class="vector-icon mw-ui-icon-logIn mw-ui-icon-wikimedia-logIn"></span> <span>Log in</span></a></li> </ul> </div> </div> <div id="p-user-menu-anon-editor" class="vector-menu mw-portlet mw-portlet-user-menu-anon-editor" > <div class="vector-menu-heading"> Pages for logged out editors <a href="/wiki/Help:Introduction" aria-label="Learn more about editing"><span>learn more</span></a> </div> <div class="vector-menu-content"> <ul class="vector-menu-content-list"> <li id="pt-anoncontribs" class="mw-list-item"><a href="/wiki/Special:MyContributions" title="A list of edits made from this IP address [y]" accesskey="y"><span>Contributions</span></a></li><li id="pt-anontalk" class="mw-list-item"><a href="/wiki/Special:MyTalk" title="Discussion about edits from this IP address [n]" accesskey="n"><span>Talk</span></a></li> </ul> </div> </div> </div> </div> </nav> </div> </header> </div> <div class="mw-page-container"> <div class="mw-page-container-inner"> <div class="vector-sitenotice-container"> <div id="siteNotice"></div> </div> <div class="vector-column-start"> <div class="vector-main-menu-container"> <div id="mw-navigation"> <nav id="mw-panel" class="vector-main-menu-landmark" aria-label="Site"> <div id="vector-main-menu-pinned-container" class="vector-pinned-container"> </div> </nav> </div> </div> <div class="vector-sticky-pinned-container"> <nav id="mw-panel-toc" aria-label="Contents" data-event-name="ui.sidebar-toc" class="mw-table-of-contents-container vector-toc-landmark"> <div id="vector-toc-pinned-container" class="vector-pinned-container"> <div id="vector-toc" class="vector-toc vector-pinnable-element"> <div class="vector-pinnable-header vector-toc-pinnable-header vector-pinnable-header-pinned" data-feature-name="toc-pinned" data-pinnable-element-id="vector-toc" > <h2 class="vector-pinnable-header-label">Contents</h2> <button class="vector-pinnable-header-toggle-button vector-pinnable-header-pin-button" data-event-name="pinnable-header.vector-toc.pin">move to sidebar</button> <button class="vector-pinnable-header-toggle-button vector-pinnable-header-unpin-button" data-event-name="pinnable-header.vector-toc.unpin">hide</button> </div> <ul class="vector-toc-contents" id="mw-panel-toc-list"> <li id="toc-mw-content-text" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a href="#" class="vector-toc-link"> <div class="vector-toc-text">(Top)</div> </a> </li> <li id="toc-November_12" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1 vector-toc-list-item-expanded"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#November_12"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">1</span> <span>November 12</span> </div> </a> <button aria-controls="toc-November_12-sublist" class="cdx-button cdx-button--weight-quiet cdx-button--icon-only vector-toc-toggle"> <span class="vector-icon mw-ui-icon-wikimedia-expand"></span> <span>Toggle November 12 subsection</span> </button> <ul id="toc-November_12-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> <li id="toc-Military_budget_of_the_USSR" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-2"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Military_budget_of_the_USSR"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">1.1</span> <span>Military budget of the USSR</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">10 comments</span> <ul id="toc-Military_budget_of_the_USSR-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-November_14" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1 vector-toc-list-item-expanded"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#November_14"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">2</span> <span>November 14</span> </div> </a> <button aria-controls="toc-November_14-sublist" class="cdx-button cdx-button--weight-quiet cdx-button--icon-only vector-toc-toggle"> <span class="vector-icon mw-ui-icon-wikimedia-expand"></span> <span>Toggle November 14 subsection</span> </button> <ul id="toc-November_14-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> <li id="toc-Air_travel_by_ethnicity_in_the_USA_in_the_1960s" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-2"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Air_travel_by_ethnicity_in_the_USA_in_the_1960s"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">2.1</span> <span>Air travel by ethnicity in the USA in the 1960s</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">13 comments</span> <ul id="toc-Air_travel_by_ethnicity_in_the_USA_in_the_1960s-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-November_15" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1 vector-toc-list-item-expanded"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#November_15"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">3</span> <span>November 15</span> </div> </a> <button aria-controls="toc-November_15-sublist" class="cdx-button cdx-button--weight-quiet cdx-button--icon-only vector-toc-toggle"> <span class="vector-icon mw-ui-icon-wikimedia-expand"></span> <span>Toggle November 15 subsection</span> </button> <ul id="toc-November_15-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> <li id="toc-History_of_skiplagging" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-2"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#History_of_skiplagging"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">3.1</span> <span>History of skiplagging</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">9 comments</span> <ul id="toc-History_of_skiplagging-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-November_16" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1 vector-toc-list-item-expanded"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#November_16"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">4</span> <span>November 16</span> </div> </a> <button aria-controls="toc-November_16-sublist" class="cdx-button cdx-button--weight-quiet cdx-button--icon-only vector-toc-toggle"> <span class="vector-icon mw-ui-icon-wikimedia-expand"></span> <span>Toggle November 16 subsection</span> </button> <ul id="toc-November_16-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> <li id="toc-Equivalents_to_boba_liberals" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-2"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Equivalents_to_boba_liberals"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">4.1</span> <span>Equivalents to boba liberals</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">1 comment</span> <ul id="toc-Equivalents_to_boba_liberals-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-November_18" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1 vector-toc-list-item-expanded"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#November_18"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">5</span> <span>November 18</span> </div> </a> <button aria-controls="toc-November_18-sublist" class="cdx-button cdx-button--weight-quiet cdx-button--icon-only vector-toc-toggle"> <span class="vector-icon mw-ui-icon-wikimedia-expand"></span> <span>Toggle November 18 subsection</span> </button> <ul id="toc-November_18-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> <li id="toc-Please_give_me_some_ideas_of_accomplishments_I_could_make_for_me_to_become_notable_enough_to_meet_WP:N" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-2"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Please_give_me_some_ideas_of_accomplishments_I_could_make_for_me_to_become_notable_enough_to_meet_WP:N"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">5.1</span> <span>Please give me some ideas of accomplishments I could make for me to become notable enough to meet WP:N</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">14 comments</span> <ul id="toc-Please_give_me_some_ideas_of_accomplishments_I_could_make_for_me_to_become_notable_enough_to_meet_WP:N-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-November_20" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1 vector-toc-list-item-expanded"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#November_20"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">6</span> <span>November 20</span> </div> </a> <button aria-controls="toc-November_20-sublist" class="cdx-button cdx-button--weight-quiet cdx-button--icon-only vector-toc-toggle"> <span class="vector-icon mw-ui-icon-wikimedia-expand"></span> <span>Toggle November 20 subsection</span> </button> <ul id="toc-November_20-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> <li id="toc-Static_technology" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-2"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Static_technology"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">6.1</span> <span>Static technology</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">4 comments</span> <ul id="toc-Static_technology-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-November_21" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1 vector-toc-list-item-expanded"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#November_21"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">7</span> <span>November 21</span> </div> </a> <button aria-controls="toc-November_21-sublist" class="cdx-button cdx-button--weight-quiet cdx-button--icon-only vector-toc-toggle"> <span class="vector-icon mw-ui-icon-wikimedia-expand"></span> <span>Toggle November 21 subsection</span> </button> <ul id="toc-November_21-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> <li id="toc-Integrated_LUFS_calculation" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-2"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Integrated_LUFS_calculation"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">7.1</span> <span>Integrated LUFS calculation</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">2 comments</span> <ul id="toc-Integrated_LUFS_calculation-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-November_22" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1 vector-toc-list-item-expanded"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#November_22"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">8</span> <span>November 22</span> </div> </a> <button aria-controls="toc-November_22-sublist" class="cdx-button cdx-button--weight-quiet cdx-button--icon-only vector-toc-toggle"> <span class="vector-icon mw-ui-icon-wikimedia-expand"></span> <span>Toggle November 22 subsection</span> </button> <ul id="toc-November_22-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> <li id="toc-Arctic_snow_removal" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-2"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Arctic_snow_removal"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">8.1</span> <span>Arctic snow removal</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">7 comments</span> <ul id="toc-Arctic_snow_removal-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-November_23" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1 vector-toc-list-item-expanded"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#November_23"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">9</span> <span>November 23</span> </div> </a> <button aria-controls="toc-November_23-sublist" class="cdx-button cdx-button--weight-quiet cdx-button--icon-only vector-toc-toggle"> <span class="vector-icon mw-ui-icon-wikimedia-expand"></span> <span>Toggle November 23 subsection</span> </button> <ul id="toc-November_23-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> <li id="toc-Odd_snow_traces" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-2"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Odd_snow_traces"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">9.1</span> <span>Odd snow traces</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">3 comments</span> <ul id="toc-Odd_snow_traces-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-November_24" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1 vector-toc-list-item-expanded"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#November_24"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">10</span> <span>November 24</span> </div> </a> <button aria-controls="toc-November_24-sublist" class="cdx-button cdx-button--weight-quiet cdx-button--icon-only vector-toc-toggle"> <span class="vector-icon mw-ui-icon-wikimedia-expand"></span> <span>Toggle November 24 subsection</span> </button> <ul id="toc-November_24-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> <li id="toc-US_clothing_requirements_circa_1914" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-2"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#US_clothing_requirements_circa_1914"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">10.1</span> <span>US clothing requirements circa 1914</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">2 comments</span> <ul id="toc-US_clothing_requirements_circa_1914-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-1930s_leukemia_treatment" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-2"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#1930s_leukemia_treatment"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">10.2</span> <span>1930s leukemia treatment</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">1 comment</span> <ul id="toc-1930s_leukemia_treatment-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> </ul> </li> </ul> </div> </div> </nav> </div> </div> <div class="mw-content-container"> <main id="content" class="mw-body"> <header class="mw-body-header vector-page-titlebar"> <nav aria-label="Contents" class="vector-toc-landmark"> <div id="vector-page-titlebar-toc" class="vector-dropdown vector-page-titlebar-toc vector-button-flush-left" > <input type="checkbox" id="vector-page-titlebar-toc-checkbox" role="button" aria-haspopup="true" data-event-name="ui.dropdown-vector-page-titlebar-toc" class="vector-dropdown-checkbox " aria-label="Toggle the table of contents" > <label id="vector-page-titlebar-toc-label" for="vector-page-titlebar-toc-checkbox" class="vector-dropdown-label cdx-button cdx-button--fake-button cdx-button--fake-button--enabled cdx-button--weight-quiet cdx-button--icon-only " aria-hidden="true" ><span class="vector-icon mw-ui-icon-listBullet mw-ui-icon-wikimedia-listBullet"></span> <span class="vector-dropdown-label-text">Toggle the table of contents</span> </label> <div class="vector-dropdown-content"> <div id="vector-page-titlebar-toc-unpinned-container" class="vector-unpinned-container"> </div> </div> </div> </nav> <h1 id="firstHeading" class="firstHeading mw-first-heading"><span class="mw-page-title-namespace">Wikipedia</span><span class="mw-page-title-separator">:</span><span class="mw-page-title-main">Reference desk/Miscellaneous</span></h1> <div id="p-lang-btn" class="vector-dropdown mw-portlet mw-portlet-lang" > <input type="checkbox" id="p-lang-btn-checkbox" role="button" aria-haspopup="true" data-event-name="ui.dropdown-p-lang-btn" class="vector-dropdown-checkbox mw-interlanguage-selector" aria-label="Go to an article in another language. Available in 1 language" > <label id="p-lang-btn-label" for="p-lang-btn-checkbox" class="vector-dropdown-label cdx-button cdx-button--fake-button cdx-button--fake-button--enabled cdx-button--weight-quiet cdx-button--action-progressive mw-portlet-lang-heading-1" aria-hidden="true" ><span class="vector-icon mw-ui-icon-language-progressive mw-ui-icon-wikimedia-language-progressive"></span> <span class="vector-dropdown-label-text">1 language</span> </label> <div class="vector-dropdown-content"> <div class="vector-menu-content"> <ul class="vector-menu-content-list"> <li class="interlanguage-link interwiki-th mw-list-item"><a href="https://th.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E0%B8%A7%E0%B8%B4%E0%B8%81%E0%B8%B4%E0%B8%9E%E0%B8%B5%E0%B9%80%E0%B8%94%E0%B8%B5%E0%B8%A2:%E0%B8%9B%E0%B8%B8%E0%B8%88%E0%B8%89%E0%B8%B2-%E0%B8%A7%E0%B8%B4%E0%B8%AA%E0%B8%B1%E0%B8%8A%E0%B8%99%E0%B8%B2/%E0%B8%88%E0%B8%B4%E0%B8%9B%E0%B8%B2%E0%B8%96%E0%B8%B0" title="วิกิพีเดีย:ปุจฉา-วิสัชนา/จิปาถะ – Thai" lang="th" hreflang="th" data-title="วิกิพีเดีย:ปุจฉา-วิสัชนา/จิปาถะ" data-language-autonym="ไทย" data-language-local-name="Thai" class="interlanguage-link-target"><span>ไทย</span></a></li> </ul> <div class="after-portlet after-portlet-lang"><span class="wb-langlinks-edit wb-langlinks-link"><a href="https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Special:EntityPage/Q27555415#sitelinks-wikipedia" title="Edit interlanguage links" class="wbc-editpage">Edit links</a></span></div> </div> </div> </div> </header> <div class="vector-page-toolbar"> <div class="vector-page-toolbar-container"> <div id="left-navigation"> <nav aria-label="Namespaces"> <div id="p-associated-pages" class="vector-menu vector-menu-tabs mw-portlet mw-portlet-associated-pages" > <div class="vector-menu-content"> <ul class="vector-menu-content-list"> <li id="ca-nstab-project" class="selected vector-tab-noicon mw-list-item"><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Miscellaneous" title="View the project page [c]" accesskey="c"><span>Project page</span></a></li><li id="ca-talk" class="vector-tab-noicon mw-list-item"><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Reference_desk/Miscellaneous" rel="discussion" class="mw-redirect" title="Discuss improvements to the content page [t]" accesskey="t"><span>Talk</span></a></li> </ul> </div> </div> <div id="vector-variants-dropdown" class="vector-dropdown emptyPortlet" > <input type="checkbox" id="vector-variants-dropdown-checkbox" role="button" aria-haspopup="true" data-event-name="ui.dropdown-vector-variants-dropdown" class="vector-dropdown-checkbox " aria-label="Change language variant" > <label id="vector-variants-dropdown-label" for="vector-variants-dropdown-checkbox" class="vector-dropdown-label cdx-button cdx-button--fake-button cdx-button--fake-button--enabled cdx-button--weight-quiet" aria-hidden="true" ><span class="vector-dropdown-label-text">English</span> </label> <div class="vector-dropdown-content"> <div id="p-variants" class="vector-menu mw-portlet mw-portlet-variants emptyPortlet" > <div class="vector-menu-content"> <ul class="vector-menu-content-list"> </ul> </div> </div> </div> </div> </nav> </div> <div id="right-navigation" class="vector-collapsible"> <nav aria-label="Views"> <div id="p-views" class="vector-menu vector-menu-tabs mw-portlet mw-portlet-views" > <div class="vector-menu-content"> <ul class="vector-menu-content-list"> <li id="ca-view" class="selected vector-tab-noicon mw-list-item"><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Miscellaneous"><span>Read</span></a></li><li id="ca-edit" class="vector-tab-noicon mw-list-item"><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Miscellaneous&action=edit" title="Edit this page [e]" accesskey="e"><span>Edit</span></a></li><li id="ca-addsection" class="vector-tab-noicon mw-list-item"><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Miscellaneous&action=edit&section=new" title="Start a new section [+]" accesskey="+"><span>Add topic</span></a></li><li id="ca-history" class="vector-tab-noicon mw-list-item"><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Miscellaneous&action=history" title="Past revisions of this page [h]" accesskey="h"><span>View history</span></a></li> </ul> </div> </div> </nav> <nav class="vector-page-tools-landmark" aria-label="Page tools"> <div id="vector-page-tools-dropdown" class="vector-dropdown vector-page-tools-dropdown" > <input type="checkbox" id="vector-page-tools-dropdown-checkbox" role="button" aria-haspopup="true" data-event-name="ui.dropdown-vector-page-tools-dropdown" class="vector-dropdown-checkbox " aria-label="Tools" > <label id="vector-page-tools-dropdown-label" for="vector-page-tools-dropdown-checkbox" class="vector-dropdown-label cdx-button cdx-button--fake-button cdx-button--fake-button--enabled cdx-button--weight-quiet" aria-hidden="true" ><span class="vector-dropdown-label-text">Tools</span> </label> <div class="vector-dropdown-content"> <div id="vector-page-tools-unpinned-container" class="vector-unpinned-container"> <div id="vector-page-tools" class="vector-page-tools vector-pinnable-element"> <div class="vector-pinnable-header vector-page-tools-pinnable-header vector-pinnable-header-unpinned" data-feature-name="page-tools-pinned" data-pinnable-element-id="vector-page-tools" data-pinned-container-id="vector-page-tools-pinned-container" data-unpinned-container-id="vector-page-tools-unpinned-container" > <div class="vector-pinnable-header-label">Tools</div> <button class="vector-pinnable-header-toggle-button vector-pinnable-header-pin-button" data-event-name="pinnable-header.vector-page-tools.pin">move to sidebar</button> <button class="vector-pinnable-header-toggle-button vector-pinnable-header-unpin-button" data-event-name="pinnable-header.vector-page-tools.unpin">hide</button> </div> <div id="p-cactions" class="vector-menu mw-portlet mw-portlet-cactions emptyPortlet vector-has-collapsible-items" title="More options" > <div class="vector-menu-heading"> Actions </div> <div class="vector-menu-content"> <ul class="vector-menu-content-list"> <li id="ca-more-view" class="selected vector-more-collapsible-item mw-list-item"><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Miscellaneous"><span>Read</span></a></li><li id="ca-more-edit" class="vector-more-collapsible-item mw-list-item"><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Miscellaneous&action=edit" title="Edit this page [e]" accesskey="e"><span>Edit</span></a></li><li id="ca-more-addsection" class="vector-more-collapsible-item mw-list-item"><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Miscellaneous&action=edit&section=new"><span>Add topic</span></a></li><li id="ca-more-history" class="vector-more-collapsible-item mw-list-item"><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Miscellaneous&action=history"><span>View history</span></a></li> </ul> </div> </div> <div id="p-tb" class="vector-menu mw-portlet mw-portlet-tb" > <div class="vector-menu-heading"> General </div> <div class="vector-menu-content"> <ul class="vector-menu-content-list"> <li id="t-whatlinkshere" class="mw-list-item"><a href="/wiki/Special:WhatLinksHere/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Miscellaneous" title="List of all English Wikipedia pages containing links to this page [j]" accesskey="j"><span>What links here</span></a></li><li id="t-recentchangeslinked" class="mw-list-item"><a href="/wiki/Special:RecentChangesLinked/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Miscellaneous" rel="nofollow" title="Recent changes in pages linked from this page [k]" accesskey="k"><span>Related changes</span></a></li><li id="t-upload" class="mw-list-item"><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:File_Upload_Wizard" title="Upload files [u]" accesskey="u"><span>Upload file</span></a></li><li id="t-specialpages" class="mw-list-item"><a href="/wiki/Special:SpecialPages" title="A list of all special pages [q]" accesskey="q"><span>Special pages</span></a></li><li id="t-permalink" class="mw-list-item"><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Miscellaneous&oldid=1259397779" title="Permanent link to this revision of this page"><span>Permanent link</span></a></li><li id="t-info" class="mw-list-item"><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Miscellaneous&action=info" title="More information about this page"><span>Page information</span></a></li><li id="t-urlshortener" class="mw-list-item"><a href="/w/index.php?title=Special:UrlShortener&url=https%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FWikipedia%3AReference_desk%2FMiscellaneous"><span>Get shortened URL</span></a></li><li id="t-urlshortener-qrcode" class="mw-list-item"><a href="/w/index.php?title=Special:QrCode&url=https%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FWikipedia%3AReference_desk%2FMiscellaneous"><span>Download QR code</span></a></li> </ul> </div> </div> <div id="p-coll-print_export" class="vector-menu mw-portlet mw-portlet-coll-print_export" > <div class="vector-menu-heading"> Print/export </div> <div class="vector-menu-content"> <ul class="vector-menu-content-list"> <li id="coll-download-as-rl" class="mw-list-item"><a href="/w/index.php?title=Special:DownloadAsPdf&page=Wikipedia%3AReference_desk%2FMiscellaneous&action=show-download-screen" title="Download this page as a PDF file"><span>Download as PDF</span></a></li><li id="t-print" class="mw-list-item"><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Miscellaneous&printable=yes" title="Printable version of this page [p]" accesskey="p"><span>Printable version</span></a></li> </ul> </div> </div> <div id="p-wikibase-otherprojects" class="vector-menu mw-portlet mw-portlet-wikibase-otherprojects" > <div class="vector-menu-heading"> In other projects </div> <div class="vector-menu-content"> <ul class="vector-menu-content-list"> <li id="t-wikibase" class="wb-otherproject-link wb-otherproject-wikibase-dataitem mw-list-item"><a href="https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Special:EntityPage/Q27555415" title="Structured data on this page hosted by Wikidata [g]" accesskey="g"><span>Wikidata item</span></a></li> </ul> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </nav> </div> </div> </div> <div class="vector-column-end"> <div class="vector-sticky-pinned-container"> <nav class="vector-page-tools-landmark" aria-label="Page tools"> <div id="vector-page-tools-pinned-container" class="vector-pinned-container"> </div> </nav> <nav class="vector-appearance-landmark" aria-label="Appearance"> <div id="vector-appearance-pinned-container" class="vector-pinned-container"> <div id="vector-appearance" class="vector-appearance vector-pinnable-element"> <div class="vector-pinnable-header vector-appearance-pinnable-header vector-pinnable-header-pinned" data-feature-name="appearance-pinned" data-pinnable-element-id="vector-appearance" data-pinned-container-id="vector-appearance-pinned-container" data-unpinned-container-id="vector-appearance-unpinned-container" > <div class="vector-pinnable-header-label">Appearance</div> <button class="vector-pinnable-header-toggle-button vector-pinnable-header-pin-button" data-event-name="pinnable-header.vector-appearance.pin">move to sidebar</button> <button class="vector-pinnable-header-toggle-button vector-pinnable-header-unpin-button" data-event-name="pinnable-header.vector-appearance.unpin">hide</button> </div> </div> </div> </nav> </div> </div> <div id="bodyContent" class="vector-body" aria-labelledby="firstHeading" data-mw-ve-target-container> <div class="vector-body-before-content"> <div class="mw-indicators"> </div> <div id="siteSub" class="noprint">From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia</div> </div> <div id="contentSub"><div id="mw-content-subtitle"><div class="subpages">< <bdi dir="ltr"><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk" title="Wikipedia:Reference desk">Wikipedia:Reference desk</a></bdi></div></div></div> <div id="mw-content-text" class="mw-body-content"><div class="mw-content-ltr mw-parser-output" lang="en" dir="ltr"><div class="shortdescription nomobile noexcerpt noprint searchaux" style="display:none">Wikimedia Project Page</div> <div style="position:absolute; z-index:100; right:10px; top:0px;" class="metadata" id="refdesk-help-icon"> <p><span typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk" title="Wikipedia:Reference desk"><img src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/8f/P_question.svg/25px-P_question.svg.png" decoding="async" width="25" height="23" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/8f/P_question.svg/38px-P_question.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/8f/P_question.svg/50px-P_question.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="400" data-file-height="360"/></a></span> </p> </div><style data-mw-deduplicate="TemplateStyles:r1249241195">.mw-parser-output .rd-header{color:var(--color-base,#202122);background-color:var(--background-color-neutral,#eaecf0);border:1px solid var(--border-color-base,#a2a9b1);font:bold 20px arial,helvetica,sans-serif;text-align:center;margin-top:0;margin-bottom:6px;margin-left:0;padding:3px}.mw-parser-output .rd-box{border:1px solid #aaa;box-sizing:border-box;background-color:var(--background-color-neutral-subtle,#f5f5f5);color:var(--color-base,#202122);margin:0 0 6px 0;padding:8px;text-align:left;width:100%}.mw-parser-output ul.rd-box{display:flex;flex-wrap:wrap;justify-content:space-evenly;padding:0}.mw-parser-output .rd-box>li{display:block;font-size:larger;margin:0}.mw-parser-output .rd-box>li>a{background-color:var(--background-color-neutral-subtle,#eaecf0);display:block;margin:0;padding:8px}.mw-parser-output .rd-box>li>.selflink{border-bottom:3px solid #aaa;padding-bottom:0}.mw-parser-output .rd-header a:link,.mw-parser-output .rd-header a:visited,.mw-parser-output .rd-header a:hover,.mw-parser-output ul.rd-box a:link,.mw-parser-output ul.rd-box a:visited,.mw-parser-output ul.rd-box a:hover{color:#00f}@media screen and (max-width:719px){.mw-parser-output #refdesk-help-icon{display:none}.mw-parser-output ul.rd-box li{display:flex;flex:1;justify-content:center;white-space:pre}}@media screen and (min-width:720px){.mw-parser-output .rd-grid{display:grid;grid-template-columns:auto 8px 14em;grid-template-rows:auto auto auto auto auto}.mw-parser-output .rd-grid>:nth-child(2),.mw-parser-output .rd-grid>:nth-child(3),.mw-parser-output .rd-grid>:nth-child(4),.mw-parser-output .rd-grid>:nth-child(6),.mw-parser-output .rd-grid>:nth-child(7){grid-column:3}.mw-parser-output .rd-grid>:nth-child(5){grid-row:2/7}.mw-parser-output ul.rd-box{flex-direction:column}.mw-parser-output .rd-box>li>.selflink{background-color:var(--background-color-neutral,#eaecf0);border-left:3px solid #aaa;padding-left:5px;border-bottom:0;padding-bottom:0}.mw-parser-output .rd-ask-button{justify-content:start!important}}@media screen and (min-width:720px)and (max-width:1024px){.mw-parser-output .rd-box input{max-width:350px}}@supports not (display:grid){.mw-parser-output ul.rd-box.rd-box{flex-direction:row}}</style><div class="rd-grid"> <div class="rd-header">Welcome to the miscellaneous section<br/>of the Wikipedia reference desk.</div> <div class="rd-header"><a href="#footer">skip to bottom</a></div> <div class="rd-header">Select a section:</div> <ul class="rd-box"> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Computing" title="Wikipedia:Reference desk/Computing">Computing</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Entertainment" title="Wikipedia:Reference desk/Entertainment">Entertainment</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Humanities" title="Wikipedia:Reference desk/Humanities">Humanities</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Language" title="Wikipedia:Reference desk/Language">Language</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Mathematics" title="Wikipedia:Reference desk/Mathematics">Mathematics</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Science" title="Wikipedia:Reference desk/Science">Science</a></li> <li><a class="mw-selflink selflink">Miscellaneous</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Archives" title="Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives">Archives</a></li> </ul> <div class="rd-box"> <style data-mw-deduplicate="TemplateStyles:r1252059228">.mw-parser-output .module-shortcutboxplain{float:right;margin:0 0 0 1em;border:1px solid var(--border-color-base,#a2a9b1);background-color:var(--background-color-base,#fff);padding:0.3em 0.6em 0.2em 0.6em;text-align:center;font-size:85%}.mw-parser-output .module-shortcutboxleft{float:left;margin:0 1em 0 0}.mw-parser-output .module-shortcutlist{display:inline-block;border-bottom:1px solid var(--border-color-base,#a2a9b1);margin-bottom:0.2em}.mw-parser-output .module-shortcutboxplain ul{font-weight:bold}.mw-parser-output .module-shortcutanchordiv{position:relative;top:-3em}.mw-parser-output li .module-shortcutanchordiv{float:right}.mw-parser-output .mbox-imageright .module-shortcutboxplain{padding:0.4em 1em 0.4em 1em;line-height:1.3;margin:0}</style><div class="module-shortcutanchordiv"><span id="WP:RD/M"></span></div><div class="module-shortcutboxplain noprint" role="note"><div class="module-shortcutlist"><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Shortcut" title="Wikipedia:Shortcut">Shortcut</a></div><style data-mw-deduplicate="TemplateStyles:r1126788409">.mw-parser-output .plainlist ol,.mw-parser-output .plainlist ul{line-height:inherit;list-style:none;margin:0;padding:0}.mw-parser-output .plainlist ol li,.mw-parser-output .plainlist ul li{margin-bottom:0}</style><div class="plainlist"><ul><li><span class="plainlinks"><a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:RD/M&redirect=no">WP:RD/M</a></span></li></ul></div></div> <span style="font-size:120%"><b>Want a faster answer?</b></span> <p><i>Main page: <a href="/wiki/Help:Searching" title="Help:Searching">Help searching Wikipedia</a></i> </p> <div style="display:inline-table"> <div class="mw-inputbox-centered" style=""><form name="searchbox" class="searchbox mw-inputbox-form-inline" action="/wiki/Special:Search"><div class="cdx-text-input"><input class="mw-searchInput searchboxInput cdx-text-input__input" name="search" placeholder="Search Wikipedia" size="30" dir="ltr"/></div> <input type="submit" name="fulltext" value="🔍" class="cdx-button"/><input type="hidden" value="Search" name="fulltext"/></form></div> </div> <div style="display:inline-table"> <p> </p> </div> <div style="display:inline-table"> <div style="height:5px"></div> <div class="mw-inputbox-centered" style=""><form name="searchbox" class="searchbox mw-inputbox-form-inline" action="/wiki/Special:Search"><div class="cdx-text-input"><input class="mw-searchInput searchboxInput cdx-text-input__input" name="search" placeholder="Search miscellaneous archives" size="30" dir="ltr"/></div><input type="hidden" value="Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Miscellaneous" name="prefix"/> <input type="submit" name="fulltext" value="🔍" class="cdx-button"/><input type="hidden" value="Search" name="fulltext"/></form></div> </div> <div style="clear:both;" class=""></div> <p><span style="font-size:120%"><b>How can I get my question answered?</b></span> </p> <ul><li>Select the section of the desk that best fits the general topic of your question (see the navigation column to the right).</li> <li>Post your question to only one section, providing a short header that gives the topic of your question.</li> <li>Type '~~~~' (that is, four <i><a href="/wiki/Tilde" title="Tilde">tilde</a></i> characters) at the end – this signs and dates your contribution so we know who wrote what and when.</li> <li>Don't post personal contact information – it will be removed. Any answers will be provided here.</li> <li>Please be as specific as possible, and include all relevant context – the usefulness of answers may depend on the context.</li> <li>Note: <ul><li>We don't answer (and may remove) questions that require medical diagnosis or legal advice.</li> <li>We don't answer requests for opinions, predictions or debate.</li> <li>We don't do your homework for you, though we'll help you past the stuck point.</li> <li>We don't conduct original research or provide a free source of ideas, but we'll help you find information you need.</li></ul></li></ul> <p><br/> </p> <div class="rd-ask-button" style="display: flex; justify-content: center;"> <div class="mw-ui-button mw-ui-progressive plainlinks"><a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?action=edit&preload=&editintro=&preloadtitle=&section=new&title=Wikipedia%3AReference+desk%2FMiscellaneous&create=Ready%3F+Ask+a+new+question!"><span style="height:36px;color:#ffffff;">Ready? Ask a new question!</span></a></div></div> <p><br/> <span style="font-size:120%"><b>How do I answer a question?</b></span> </p><p><i>Main page: <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Guidelines" title="Wikipedia:Reference desk/Guidelines">Wikipedia:Reference desk/Guidelines</a></i> </p> <ul><li>The best answers address the question directly, and back up facts with <a href="/wiki/Wikilink" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikilink">wikilinks</a> and links to sources. Do not edit others' comments and do not give any medical or legal advice.</li></ul> </div> <div class="rd-header">See also:</div> <ul class="rd-box"> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Teahouse" title="Wikipedia:Teahouse">Teahouse</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Help_desk" title="Wikipedia:Help desk">Help desk</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Village_pump" title="Wikipedia:Village pump">Village pump</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Help:Contents" title="Help:Contents">Help manual</a></li> </ul> </div> <p><br/> </p> <meta property="mw:PageProp/toc"/> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading1"><h1 id="November_12" data-mw-thread-id="h-November_12-20241112162400"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-November_12-20241112162400"></span>November 12<span data-mw-comment-end="h-November_12-20241112162400"></span></h1><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Miscellaneous&action=edit&section=1" title="Edit section: November 12"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span></div> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Military_budget_of_the_USSR" data-mw-thread-id="h-Military_budget_of_the_USSR-November_12-20241112162400"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Military_budget_of_the_USSR-November_12-20241112162400"></span>Military budget of the USSR<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Military_budget_of_the_USSR-November_12-20241112162400"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Miscellaneous&action=edit&section=2" title="Edit section: Military budget of the USSR"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-2601:646:8082:BA0:90B6:D6C1:A446:513E-20241112162400-Military_budget_of_the_USSR"></span>At its all-time historical peak during <a href="/wiki/World_War_2" class="mw-redirect" title="World War 2">World War 2</a>, what percentage of the <a href="/wiki/Soviet_Union" title="Soviet Union">Soviet Union</a>'s <a href="/wiki/GDP" class="mw-redirect" title="GDP">GDP</a> (or <a href="/wiki/GNP" class="mw-redirect" title="GNP">GNP</a>) was its military budget? <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/2601:646:8082:BA0:90B6:D6C1:A446:513E" title="Special:Contributions/2601:646:8082:BA0:90B6:D6C1:A446:513E">2601:646:8082:BA0:90B6:D6C1:A446:513E</a> (<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:2601:646:8082:BA0:90B6:D6C1:A446:513E&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User talk:2601:646:8082:BA0:90B6:D6C1:A446:513E (page does not exist)">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Miscellaneous#c-2601:646:8082:BA0:90B6:D6C1:A446:513E-20241112162400-Military_budget_of_the_USSR" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:24, 12 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-2601:646:8082:BA0:90B6:D6C1:A446:513E-20241112162400-Military_budget_of_the_USSR"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-2601:646:8082:BA0:90B6:D6C1:A446:513E-20241112162400-Military_budget_of_the_USSR"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-DOR_(HK)-20241112200400-2601:646:8082:BA0:90B6:D6C1:A446:513E-20241112162400"></span>It is highly unlikely that there is a useful answer to this question. It would require knowing the size of the USSR economy, defining those parts that are strictly part of the budget (as different from, say, survival consumption), and then defining those parts that were strictly reserved for the military (which may / may not include non-military security forces). The key issue is why do you want to know, and what might be a reasonable substitute for this particular answer? <a href="/wiki/User:DOR_(HK)" title="User:DOR (HK)">DOR (ex-HK)</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:DOR_(HK)" title="User talk:DOR (HK)">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Miscellaneous#c-DOR_(HK)-20241112200400-2601:646:8082:BA0:90B6:D6C1:A446:513E-20241112162400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:04, 12 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-DOR_(HK)-20241112200400-2601:646:8082:BA0:90B6:D6C1:A446:513E-20241112162400"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-DOR_(HK)-20241112200400-2601:646:8082:BA0:90B6:D6C1:A446:513E-20241112162400"></span></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Stanleykswong-20241112225800-2601:646:8082:BA0:90B6:D6C1:A446:513E-20241112162400"></span>According to CIA (<a rel="nofollow" class="external free" href="https://www.cia.gov/readingroom/docs/CIA-RDP80-00809A000700230019-4.pdf">https://www.cia.gov/readingroom/docs/CIA-RDP80-00809A000700230019-4.pdf</a>), the defense budget of USSR in 1940 and 1941 were 57.1 billion rubles and 70.9 billion rubles respectively.</dd> <dd>According to <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://warwick.ac.uk/fac/soc/economics/staff/mharrison/public/totalwar2005.pdf">“Harrison, M (2005) Why Didn't the Soviet Economy Collapse in 1942?”</a>, GDP of USSR in 1940 and 1941 were US$417 billion and US$359 billion respectively.</dd> <dd>If you could find the exchange rate of US$ to rubles in 1940 and 1941, then you would find the answer. <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Stanleykswong&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Stanleykswong (page does not exist)">Stanleykswong</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Stanleykswong" title="User talk:Stanleykswong">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Miscellaneous#c-Stanleykswong-20241112225800-2601:646:8082:BA0:90B6:D6C1:A446:513E-20241112162400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:58, 12 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Stanleykswong-20241112225800-2601:646:8082:BA0:90B6:D6C1:A446:513E-20241112162400"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Stanleykswong-20241112225800-2601:646:8082:BA0:90B6:D6C1:A446:513E-20241112162400"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Lambiam-20241112232600-Stanleykswong-20241112225800"></span>Presumably the black-market exchange rate, not the official one. --<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Lambiam#top" title="User talk:Lambiam">Lambiam</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Miscellaneous#c-Lambiam-20241112232600-Stanleykswong-20241112225800" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:26, 12 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Lambiam-20241112232600-Stanleykswong-20241112225800"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Lambiam-20241112232600-Stanleykswong-20241112225800"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Stanleykswong-20241113094900-Lambiam-20241112232600"></span>You're right, but it is difficult to estimate the size of black-market. <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Stanleykswong&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Stanleykswong (page does not exist)">Stanleykswong</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Stanleykswong" title="User talk:Stanleykswong">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Miscellaneous#c-Stanleykswong-20241113094900-Lambiam-20241112232600" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">09:49, 13 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Stanleykswong-20241113094900-Lambiam-20241112232600"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Stanleykswong-20241113094900-Lambiam-20241112232600"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-2601:646:8082:BA0:90B6:D6C1:A446:513E-20241114054400-Stanleykswong-20241113094900"></span>Actually, I just did find the exchange rate -- 5.3 rubles to a dollar (this was the official figure, but it squares pretty well with the figures from later years that I know with certainty), which makes the percentage -- <b>WHAT</b>?! Only 3.7 percent?! Are my own calculations off by one zero somewhere, or is the exchange rate way off??? <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/2601:646:8082:BA0:90B6:D6C1:A446:513E" title="Special:Contributions/2601:646:8082:BA0:90B6:D6C1:A446:513E">2601:646:8082:BA0:90B6:D6C1:A446:513E</a> (<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:2601:646:8082:BA0:90B6:D6C1:A446:513E&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User talk:2601:646:8082:BA0:90B6:D6C1:A446:513E (page does not exist)">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Miscellaneous#c-2601:646:8082:BA0:90B6:D6C1:A446:513E-20241114054400-Stanleykswong-20241113094900" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">05:44, 14 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-2601:646:8082:BA0:90B6:D6C1:A446:513E-20241114054400-Stanleykswong-20241113094900"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-2601:646:8082:BA0:90B6:D6C1:A446:513E-20241114054400-Stanleykswong-20241113094900"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-PiusImpavidus-20241114090400-Stanleykswong-20241112225800"></span>Also, in an economy not based on trade, there's no need to express everything in money. There was quite a lot of trade going on in the Soviet Union (it was certainly not a fully communist economy), but still, things like budgets and GDP could to some extend be arbitrary. <a href="/wiki/User:PiusImpavidus" title="User:PiusImpavidus">PiusImpavidus</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:PiusImpavidus" title="User talk:PiusImpavidus">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Miscellaneous#c-PiusImpavidus-20241114090400-Stanleykswong-20241112225800" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">09:04, 14 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-PiusImpavidus-20241114090400-Stanleykswong-20241112225800"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-PiusImpavidus-20241114090400-Stanleykswong-20241112225800"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Lambiam-20241114111800-PiusImpavidus-20241114090400"></span>The transfer of industrially manufactured commodities in the economy of USSR was also based on trade. <a href="/wiki/Barter" title="Barter">Barter</a> played a minor role in the whole economy. A reasonably accurate way of describing the economic system of the USSR is as <a href="/wiki/State_capitalism" title="State capitalism">state capitalism</a>: like capitalism, but with one difference with Western capitalism: the enterprises are not privately owned but <a href="/wiki/State-owned_enterprise" title="State-owned enterprise">owned by the state</a>. The consequence is that there is a single all-encompassing <a href="/wiki/Monopoly" title="Monopoly">monopoly</a>; domestic market competition is ruled out. For the rest, it is business as usual. In particular, the separate enterprises were required to make a profit, otherwise their management would be replaced. --<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Lambiam#top" title="User talk:Lambiam">Lambiam</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Miscellaneous#c-Lambiam-20241114111800-PiusImpavidus-20241114090400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">11:18, 14 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Lambiam-20241114111800-PiusImpavidus-20241114090400"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Lambiam-20241114111800-PiusImpavidus-20241114090400"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-2601:646:8082:BA0:CD5E:73B7:6DF6:2CF6-20241115123800-2601:646:8082:BA0:90B6:D6C1:A446:513E-20241112162400"></span>[un-indent] As for why I want to know this: I'm trying to find out the approximate maximum for military spending as a % of GDP which can be sustained without causing widespread starvation, and given the USSR's experience during World War 2, the percentage they had would be close to it! But the percentage I calculated based on the 5.3 rubles per dollar exchange ratio is <b>obviously wrong</b> (it's simply not conceivable that the Soviet population would suffer so much with their military budget being a mere 3.7% of their GDP, while we Americans spent <b>forty</b> percent of our GDP on our military with <b>much less</b> hardship, even taking into account the obvious inefficiency of the Soviet economy, and in fact it's inconceivable even that they would spend so little of their budget on their military while literally fighting for their very survival), so I guess the exchange ratio was way off! (Of course, if someone here knows of another example of a nation which had to suffer severe hardship due to being forced to spend most of their GDP on war, you're welcome to share it here as well -- but it would have to be from the last 2 centuries or so, because <a href="/wiki/Total_war" title="Total war">total war</a> is a fairly recent phenomenon!) <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/2601:646:8082:BA0:CD5E:73B7:6DF6:2CF6" title="Special:Contributions/2601:646:8082:BA0:CD5E:73B7:6DF6:2CF6">2601:646:8082:BA0:CD5E:73B7:6DF6:2CF6</a> (<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:2601:646:8082:BA0:CD5E:73B7:6DF6:2CF6&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User talk:2601:646:8082:BA0:CD5E:73B7:6DF6:2CF6 (page does not exist)">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Miscellaneous#c-2601:646:8082:BA0:CD5E:73B7:6DF6:2CF6-20241115123800-2601:646:8082:BA0:90B6:D6C1:A446:513E-20241112162400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">12:38, 15 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-2601:646:8082:BA0:CD5E:73B7:6DF6:2CF6-20241115123800-2601:646:8082:BA0:90B6:D6C1:A446:513E-20241112162400"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-2601:646:8082:BA0:CD5E:73B7:6DF6:2CF6-20241115123800-2601:646:8082:BA0:90B6:D6C1:A446:513E-20241112162400"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-PiusImpavidus-20241115172100-2601:646:8082:BA0:CD5E:73B7:6DF6:2CF6-20241115123800"></span>The USA entered the industrial age about a century before Russia. The US spent the entire 19th century developing coal mines, ore mines, steel mills, railways, education centres, modern farming methods, oil refineries etc. Russia had not much of that until the communists rose to power, so the industrial base that could be repurposed to the war effort was much weaker; a far larger fraction of their economy was just producing food.</dd> <dd>Actually, they closed the gap rather quickly, going from a mostly agrarian country to a space-faring nuclear-armed superpower in just 40 years. And so did China. Something about copying western technology, avoiding the errors western countries made, a bit of good planning.</dd> <dd>As for countries spending a lot of their economy on the military, consider North Korea. I remember reading something like 20% some years ago. Maybe it would be better to look at the number of people working in defense, as this is harder to manipulate the the amount of money involved. <a href="/wiki/User:PiusImpavidus" title="User:PiusImpavidus">PiusImpavidus</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:PiusImpavidus" title="User talk:PiusImpavidus">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Miscellaneous#c-PiusImpavidus-20241115172100-2601:646:8082:BA0:CD5E:73B7:6DF6:2CF6-20241115123800" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:21, 15 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-PiusImpavidus-20241115172100-2601:646:8082:BA0:CD5E:73B7:6DF6:2CF6-20241115123800"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-PiusImpavidus-20241115172100-2601:646:8082:BA0:CD5E:73B7:6DF6:2CF6-20241115123800"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading1"><h1 id="November_14" data-mw-thread-id="h-November_14-20241114080600"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-November_14-20241114080600"></span>November 14<span data-mw-comment-end="h-November_14-20241114080600"></span></h1><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Miscellaneous&action=edit&section=3" title="Edit section: November 14"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span></div> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Air_travel_by_ethnicity_in_the_USA_in_the_1960s" data-mw-thread-id="h-Air_travel_by_ethnicity_in_the_USA_in_the_1960s-November_14-20241114080600"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Air_travel_by_ethnicity_in_the_USA_in_the_1960s-November_14-20241114080600"></span>Air travel by ethnicity in the USA in the 1960s<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Air_travel_by_ethnicity_in_the_USA_in_the_1960s-November_14-20241114080600"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Miscellaneous&action=edit&section=4" title="Edit section: Air travel by ethnicity in the USA in the 1960s"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Viennese_Waltz-20241114080600-Air_travel_by_ethnicity_in_the_USA_in_the_1960s"></span>What data is available on the breakdown by ethnicity of people in the USA taking commercial flights in the 1960s? I'm mostly interested in long-haul flights, but domestic flights could be useful too. Thanks, --<a href="/wiki/User:Viennese_Waltz" title="User:Viennese Waltz">Viennese Waltz</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Miscellaneous#c-Viennese_Waltz-20241114080600-Air_travel_by_ethnicity_in_the_USA_in_the_1960s" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">08:06, 14 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Viennese_Waltz-20241114080600-Air_travel_by_ethnicity_in_the_USA_in_the_1960s"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Viennese_Waltz-20241114080600-Air_travel_by_ethnicity_in_the_USA_in_the_1960s"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Lambiam-20241114105300-Viennese_Waltz-20241114080600"></span>When booking a flight, one's ethnicity is not recorded, so it would be surprising if any remotely reliable data exists. --<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Lambiam#top" title="User talk:Lambiam">Lambiam</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Miscellaneous#c-Lambiam-20241114105300-Viennese_Waltz-20241114080600" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">10:53, 14 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Lambiam-20241114105300-Viennese_Waltz-20241114080600"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Lambiam-20241114105300-Viennese_Waltz-20241114080600"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Viennese_Waltz-20241114151700-Lambiam-20241114105300"></span>Well, there's <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://www.statista.com/statistics/316368/air-travel-frequency-us-by-ethnicity/">this</a>, which relates to 2015. The source of that data seems to be a survey, not information recorded at the time of booking. It would be good to know if any similar survey was carried out in the 1960s. --<a href="/wiki/User:Viennese_Waltz" title="User:Viennese Waltz">Viennese Waltz</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Miscellaneous#c-Viennese_Waltz-20241114151700-Lambiam-20241114105300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:17, 14 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Viennese_Waltz-20241114151700-Lambiam-20241114105300"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Viennese_Waltz-20241114151700-Lambiam-20241114105300"></span></dd></dl></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Nanonic-20241114172900-Viennese_Waltz-20241114080600"></span>See <a rel="nofollow" class="external autonumber" href="https://airandspace.si.edu/stories/editorial/desegregation-airports-american-south">[1]</a>, <a rel="nofollow" class="external autonumber" href="https://www.cntraveler.com/story/how-black-travelers-fought-discrimination-while-flying-in-the-jim-crow-era">[2]</a>, <a rel="nofollow" class="external autonumber" href="https://airandspace.si.edu/explore/stories/social-change-airline-industry">[3]</a>, <a rel="nofollow" class="external autonumber" href="https://www.smithsonianmag.com/air-space-magazine/segregated-airport-terminals-180970285/">[4]</a> for some general discussion on the topic but very few stats. <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Nanonic&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Nanonic (page does not exist)">Nanonic</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Nanonic" title="User talk:Nanonic">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Miscellaneous#c-Nanonic-20241114172900-Viennese_Waltz-20241114080600" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:29, 14 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Nanonic-20241114172900-Viennese_Waltz-20241114080600"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Nanonic-20241114172900-Viennese_Waltz-20241114080600"></span></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-68.187.174.155-20241114173300-Viennese_Waltz-20241114080600"></span>1960s is long before deregulation. Flight costs were very high. If you could afford a ticket, regardless of ethnicity, you could purchase one and fly. Most people could not afford tickets at the time. <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/68.187.174.155" title="Special:Contributions/68.187.174.155">68.187.174.155</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:68.187.174.155" title="User talk:68.187.174.155">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Miscellaneous#c-68.187.174.155-20241114173300-Viennese_Waltz-20241114080600" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:33, 14 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-68.187.174.155-20241114173300-Viennese_Waltz-20241114080600"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-68.187.174.155-20241114173300-Viennese_Waltz-20241114080600"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Khajidha-20241115165500-68.187.174.155-20241114173300"></span>Yes, but there's also the question of what would actually happen. Civil rights activists from the time could give some insight into that. At least, those that weren't killed for doing things that were actually legal (or for helping others do them). --<a href="/wiki/User:Khajidha" title="User:Khajidha">User:Khajidha</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Khajidha" title="User talk:Khajidha">talk</a>) (<a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Khajidha" title="Special:Contributions/Khajidha">contributions</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Miscellaneous#c-Khajidha-20241115165500-68.187.174.155-20241114173300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:55, 15 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Khajidha-20241115165500-68.187.174.155-20241114173300"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Khajidha-20241115165500-68.187.174.155-20241114173300"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-68.187.174.155-20241115193300-Khajidha-20241115165500"></span>Yes. Regardless of skin color, passengers could fly if they could afford a ticket. In the 1960s, it was not profitable for airlines to turn customers away. I feel that the point that airlines were regulated in the 1960s is being overlooked or there is a lack of understanding about how expensive tickets were during regulation. It was nothing at all like modern air travel. <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/68.187.174.155" title="Special:Contributions/68.187.174.155">68.187.174.155</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:68.187.174.155" title="User talk:68.187.174.155">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Miscellaneous#c-68.187.174.155-20241115193300-Khajidha-20241115165500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:33, 15 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-68.187.174.155-20241115193300-Khajidha-20241115165500"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-68.187.174.155-20241115193300-Khajidha-20241115165500"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Viennese_Waltz-20241116064500-68.187.174.155-20241115193300"></span>I don't know why you keep bringing up regulation and pricing. You say that "if you could afford a ticket, regardless of ethnicity, you could purchase one and fly", which is undoubtedly true. But that still holds true today, and it doesn't get us anywhere closer to answering my question of what percentage of air passengers in the 1960s were white, black, Asian etc. I think Lambiam is right that there is no reliable data on this. --<a href="/wiki/User:Viennese_Waltz" title="User:Viennese Waltz">Viennese Waltz</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Miscellaneous#c-Viennese_Waltz-20241116064500-68.187.174.155-20241115193300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">06:45, 16 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Viennese_Waltz-20241116064500-68.187.174.155-20241115193300"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Viennese_Waltz-20241116064500-68.187.174.155-20241115193300"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-68.187.174.155-20241120184000-Viennese_Waltz-20241116064500"></span>I keep bringing it up because I do not believe it is understood. In the 1960s, being able to fly was based on money, not race, ethnicity, religion, gender, etc... All minorities that were mostly middle-class or below were unable to afford tickets. It is not accurate to claim that there was a wide-spread policy to refuse airline tickets based on skin color. It is accurate to claim that there was a wide-spread policy to refuse to sell tickets to people who didn't have enough money to purchase them. <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/68.187.174.155" title="Special:Contributions/68.187.174.155">68.187.174.155</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:68.187.174.155" title="User talk:68.187.174.155">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Miscellaneous#c-68.187.174.155-20241120184000-Viennese_Waltz-20241116064500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:40, 20 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-68.187.174.155-20241120184000-Viennese_Waltz-20241116064500"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-68.187.174.155-20241120184000-Viennese_Waltz-20241116064500"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Viennese_Waltz-20241120184500-68.187.174.155-20241120184000"></span>That's all very interesting, but it has absolutely nothing to do with the question I asked. --<a href="/wiki/User:Viennese_Waltz" title="User:Viennese Waltz">Viennese Waltz</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Miscellaneous#c-Viennese_Waltz-20241120184500-68.187.174.155-20241120184000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:45, 20 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Viennese_Waltz-20241120184500-68.187.174.155-20241120184000"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Viennese_Waltz-20241120184500-68.187.174.155-20241120184000"></span></dd></dl></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Alansplodge-20241118175700-Viennese_Waltz-20241116064500"></span>You may be interested in:</dd> <dd><a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://www.smithsonianmag.com/air-space-magazine/segregated-airport-terminals-180970285/"><i>As Late as 1963, Some U.S. Airports Were Still Segregated</i></a></dd> <dd><a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://airandspace.si.edu/explore/stories/social-change-airline-industry"><i>Social Changes in the Airline Industry</i></a></dd> <dd><a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://www.cntraveler.com/story/how-black-travelers-fought-discrimination-while-flying-in-the-jim-crow-era"><i>What It Was Like to Fly as a Black Traveler in the Jim Crow Era</i></a></dd> <dd><a href="/wiki/User:Alansplodge" title="User:Alansplodge">Alansplodge</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Alansplodge" title="User talk:Alansplodge">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Miscellaneous#c-Alansplodge-20241118175700-Viennese_Waltz-20241116064500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:57, 18 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Alansplodge-20241118175700-Viennese_Waltz-20241116064500"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Alansplodge-20241118175700-Viennese_Waltz-20241116064500"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Viennese_Waltz-20241118181800-Alansplodge-20241118175700"></span>Thanks, but Nanonic already provided all three of those links. --<a href="/wiki/User:Viennese_Waltz" title="User:Viennese Waltz">Viennese Waltz</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Miscellaneous#c-Viennese_Waltz-20241118181800-Alansplodge-20241118175700" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:18, 18 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Viennese_Waltz-20241118181800-Alansplodge-20241118175700"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Viennese_Waltz-20241118181800-Alansplodge-20241118175700"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Alansplodge-20241119152600-Viennese_Waltz-20241118181800"></span>D'oh! <a href="/wiki/User:Alansplodge" title="User:Alansplodge">Alansplodge</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Alansplodge" title="User talk:Alansplodge">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Miscellaneous#c-Alansplodge-20241119152600-Viennese_Waltz-20241118181800" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:26, 19 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Alansplodge-20241119152600-Viennese_Waltz-20241118181800"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Alansplodge-20241119152600-Viennese_Waltz-20241118181800"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading1"><h1 id="November_15" data-mw-thread-id="h-November_15-20241115193300"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-November_15-20241115193300"></span>November 15<span data-mw-comment-end="h-November_15-20241115193300"></span></h1><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Miscellaneous&action=edit&section=5" title="Edit section: November 15"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span></div> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="History_of_skiplagging" data-mw-thread-id="h-History_of_skiplagging-November_15-20241115193300"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-History_of_skiplagging-November_15-20241115193300"></span>History of skiplagging<span data-mw-comment-end="h-History_of_skiplagging-November_15-20241115193300"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Miscellaneous&action=edit&section=6" title="Edit section: History of skiplagging"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><a href="/wiki/Airline_booking_ploys" title="Airline booking ploys"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Edison-20241115193300-History_of_skiplagging"></span>Airline booking ploys</a> describes the odd practice of airlines making it cheaper to buy a ticket from A to C with a stopover at B, than to buy a ticket from A to B. If the passenger just doesn't get back on the plane or the connecting flight from B to C, he saves money and the airline gets angry and wants to punish him. The article does not explain why prices are set that way. or what harm there is to the airline, if the skip lagger doesn't leave checked luggage on the plane. I'm pretty sure they never incur many delays waiting for him to reboard. Family emergencies, business crises, getting lost in an airport, or medical issues might cause an innocent passenger not to rebound. I can't find evidence of such a pricing or punishment practice in, say Greyhound buses or Amtrak trains. </p><p>The CAB apparently regulated US airline prices before 1978. Did they price multipart trips this way under regulation? Did they or airlines seek to punish passengers before 1978 who did not complete a multistage trip? Is the word "skiplag" of long standing in this usage, or just a pun from "skip a leg" of a trip? I got no help with Google book search or asking LLMs <a href="/wiki/User:Edison" title="User:Edison">Edison</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Edison" title="User talk:Edison">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Miscellaneous#c-Edison-20241115193300-History_of_skiplagging" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:33, 15 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Edison-20241115193300-History_of_skiplagging"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Edison-20241115193300-History_of_skiplagging"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-68.187.174.155-20241115200300-Edison-20241115193300"></span>Why does skiplagging exist? Assume you are an airline. You have a flight from A to C with a layover in B. You have no problem selling tickets from A to B, so you can charge a premium for those. However, you have trouble selling from A to C (or even B to C). There is enough to keep the flight going, but not enough to keep a good profit going. So, you discount A to C to get more people to take that flight. You might even add an extra flight from A to B at an even higher premium. As this continues, there will be a point at which the A to C is discounted to a price less than A to B.</dd> <dd>Did this happen before deregulation? Most likely not because the government set routes and prices. They would set the route from A to B. They would set the route from A to C which may be direct and not allow a layover in B. They would set the price. They don't care about profit or popularity. They just regulate. Keep in mind that a hidden agenda of airline regulation was to keep trains and busses a viable alternative for transportation. So, they don't want planes to be cheap or routes sensible.</dd> <dd>Now, you have A to C (with a B layover) cheaper at your airline than A to B. So, Joe the Skiplagger buys a ticket for A to C and back. He hops off at B and doesn't get back on the flight. Then, on the return flight, he tries to get back on at B even though he wasn't on the plane from C to B. What could possibly be a problem? <ul><li>His luggage will go to C, not B. He will complain that his luggage is lost. It will be lost. Nobody will pick it up at C. Now, you, as the airline, have to hunt down his bags and get them to him.</li> <li>FAA reporting will be wrong. You, as the airline, must report exactly who is in each seat. If you report incorrectly, you can be fined. Add up all the fines for every skiplagger. Do you want to take on that cost?</li> <li>You want to turn a profit. You know that if you sell 100 tickets, only about 80 people will show up for the flight. So, you sell 120 tickets and you have people on standby to keep the plane full. On the return flight from C to B, Joe the Skiplagger didn't show up. You put someone in his seat. Then, at B, Joe shows up and tries to board. There is no seat. He has a tantrum. Social media trends that your airline refuses to seat paying customers. No point in trying to explain it because everyone knows that skiplagging isn't a problem and airlines should be happy to have as many skiplaggers as possible. Perhaps it was a bad idea to start your airline.</li> <li>Back to the return flight. Joe the Skiplagger has to check in to be able to get on at B. The flight has to keep calling him at C. Joe? Where are you Joe? Your seat is here Joe? We're going to give it away if you don't show up Joe. The plane sits and waits. Joe never shows up because he is in B, not C. Finally, the gate people let someone take his seat. That means that have to "uncheck" Joe and check in another passenger. Everyone has to wait for that passenger to get on the plane, hunt for a place to put baggage, and find a seat when the plane should be pulling away from the gate. And, just because it is your airline, you get the fine from the airport for spending too many minutes at the gate. Why did you get into the airline business in the first place?</li> <li>What if Joe bought a ticket for A to B instead of A to C and didn't skiplag? You'd know that the seat from B to C was empty. You could sell it. But, what is more important? Should Joe save %10 by skiplagging or should you be able to sell a $100 seat?</li> <li>This list is not complete. I am only covering the main points that you need to know so you realize you don't want to run an airline.</li></ul></dd> <dd>If you look at it from the skiplagger's point of view, they are not doing anything illegal and it is the airline's fault for making the process available. If you look at it from the airline's point of view, they are losing money, increasing hassle, and dealing with FAA regulations. <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/68.187.174.155" title="Special:Contributions/68.187.174.155">68.187.174.155</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:68.187.174.155" title="User talk:68.187.174.155">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Miscellaneous#c-68.187.174.155-20241115200300-Edison-20241115193300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:03, 15 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-68.187.174.155-20241115200300-Edison-20241115193300"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-68.187.174.155-20241115200300-Edison-20241115193300"></span> <dl><dd><dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-HiLo48-20241115231300-68.187.174.155-20241115200300"></span>Lots of mention of the FAA here. Is this purely an American problem? <a href="/wiki/User:HiLo48" title="User:HiLo48">HiLo48</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:HiLo48" title="User talk:HiLo48">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Miscellaneous#c-HiLo48-20241115231300-68.187.174.155-20241115200300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:13, 15 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-HiLo48-20241115231300-68.187.174.155-20241115200300"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-HiLo48-20241115231300-68.187.174.155-20241115200300"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-85.76.117.61-20241116153000-HiLo48-20241115231300"></span>Probably mostly a US thing. You need a widely used <a href="/wiki/Airline_hub" title="Airline hub">hub and spokes</a> system for this to become common. <a href="/wiki/Airline_booking_ploys#Hidden-city_ticketing" title="Airline booking ploys">Hidden-city ticketing</a> mentions New Zealand for COVID-19 restrictions shenanigans and British Rail. <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/85.76.117.61" title="Special:Contributions/85.76.117.61">85.76.117.61</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:85.76.117.61" title="User talk:85.76.117.61">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Miscellaneous#c-85.76.117.61-20241116153000-HiLo48-20241115231300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:30, 16 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-85.76.117.61-20241116153000-HiLo48-20241115231300"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-85.76.117.61-20241116153000-HiLo48-20241115231300"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Hassocks5489-20241118122500-85.76.117.61-20241116153000"></span>Further to this, in relation to ticketing on <a href="/wiki/National_Rail" title="National Rail">National Rail</a> (the British railway system): it is permissible to do this (i.e. skiplagging) with "walk-up" (non-Advance) tickets, but it is explicitly prohibited if using an Advance ticket. Attempting to do this with an Advance ticket makes the passenger liable to a <a href="/wiki/Penalty_fare#National_Rail_services_in_Great_Britain" title="Penalty fare">penalty fare</a> or, potentially, prosecution. Advance tickets are quota-controlled and are issued for a specific service, and usually have a specific seat allocated (although some <a href="/wiki/Train_operating_company" title="Train operating company">train operating companies</a> do not offer reservable seating), whereas "walk-up" tickets such as Off-Peak Returns and Anytime Day Returns can be used on any service, sometimes subject to time restrictions. Anomalies in the fare system such that an A–C via B ticket is cheaper than A–B are not particularly common, but there are a few. <span style="font-family: Helvetica;"><a href="/wiki/User:Hassocks5489" title="User:Hassocks5489"><b style="color: #00BFFF;">Hassocks</b></a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Hassocks5489" title="User talk:Hassocks5489"><span style="color: #228B22;">5489</span><span style="color: #C71585;"><small> (Floreat Hova!)</small></span></a></span> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Miscellaneous#c-Hassocks5489-20241118122500-85.76.117.61-20241116153000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">12:25, 18 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Hassocks5489-20241118122500-85.76.117.61-20241116153000"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Hassocks5489-20241118122500-85.76.117.61-20241116153000"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-JuniperChill-20241118191200-Hassocks5489-20241118122500"></span>And its even possible to claim <a href="/w/index.php?title=Delay_repay&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Delay repay (page does not exist)">delay repay</a> on this (compensation when passengers arrive to their destination at least 30 mins late, or 15 for specific operators). The relevant operator will ask whether you hold multiple tickets to make a claim. Additionally, its possible to claim compensation even outside the operators' control, unlike <a href="/wiki/EU261" class="mw-redirect" title="EU261">EU261</a>. Using Trainline and possible <a href="/wiki/ScotRail" title="ScotRail">ScotRail</a> will give you the option of using split tickets, as well as Trainsplit.</dd> <dd>And you didn't point out that if you have a ticket from A-B and B-C, it has to stop at station B for it to be valid. <a href="/wiki/User:JuniperChill" title="User:JuniperChill">JuniperChill</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:JuniperChill" title="User talk:JuniperChill">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Miscellaneous#c-JuniperChill-20241118191200-Hassocks5489-20241118122500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:12, 18 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-JuniperChill-20241118191200-Hassocks5489-20241118122500"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-JuniperChill-20241118191200-Hassocks5489-20241118122500"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Hassocks5489-20241118220300-JuniperChill-20241118191200"></span>That's true, with the slightly obscure exception that if one of the tickets held is a <a href="/wiki/Season_ticket" title="Season ticket">season ticket</a> between A and B (or B and C), the A–C train doesn't have to stop at B as long as at least one train operated by that train operating company does stop at B. (I think that's right!) <span style="font-family: Helvetica;"><a href="/wiki/User:Hassocks5489" title="User:Hassocks5489"><b style="color: #00BFFF;">Hassocks</b></a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Hassocks5489" title="User talk:Hassocks5489"><span style="color: #228B22;">5489</span><span style="color: #C71585;"><small> (Floreat Hova!)</small></span></a></span> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Miscellaneous#c-Hassocks5489-20241118220300-JuniperChill-20241118191200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:03, 18 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Hassocks5489-20241118220300-JuniperChill-20241118191200"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Hassocks5489-20241118220300-JuniperChill-20241118191200"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-JuniperChill-20241119003400-Hassocks5489-20241118220300"></span>Looking at <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://assets.nationalrail.co.uk/e8xgegruud3g/77fuBWp62YPSrGwBP1mNQX/5f912e6484a2dc7efbad3b4ed0c9b383/National_Rail_Conditions_of_Travel_2024.pdf">NRCOT section 14</a>, (specifically 14.3) it does seem like that's one exception I didn't know about. <a href="/wiki/User:JuniperChill" title="User:JuniperChill">JuniperChill</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:JuniperChill" title="User talk:JuniperChill">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Miscellaneous#c-JuniperChill-20241119003400-Hassocks5489-20241118220300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:34, 19 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-JuniperChill-20241119003400-Hassocks5489-20241118220300"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-JuniperChill-20241119003400-Hassocks5489-20241118220300"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Amble-20241118213700-Edison-20241115193300"></span>It doesn't seem like the airline loses anything if you assume the alternatives are 1) "passenger pays for flight A->B->C and flies A->B->C" or 2) "passenger pays for flight A->B->C and flies A->B". Then the price is fixed and the destination is negotiable. But that isn't how passengers work: they need to get to a particular place, and they want to pay the least possible fare. So the passenger wants to choose between 2) "passenger pays less for flight A->B->C and flies A->B" or 3) "passenger pays more for flight A->B and flies A->B". The passenger would like to pay the lower fare, but the airline would like to collect the higher fare. The airline wants the passenger to choose between 3) "passenger pays more for flight A->B and flies A->B" and 4) "passenger doesn't fly", because they believe that sufficient passengers on this route will pay the higher price if their alternative is to stay home. So the cost to the airline of skiplagging is that they lose the ability to collect the higher fare. It's then a form of <a href="/wiki/Price_discrimination#Travel_industry" title="Price discrimination">price discrimination</a>, which generally requires some mechanism to segment consumers by ability to pay rather than by the cost of providing the goods or services. --<a href="/wiki/User:Amble" title="User:Amble">Amble</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Amble" title="User talk:Amble">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Miscellaneous#c-Amble-20241118213700-Edison-20241115193300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:37, 18 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Amble-20241118213700-Edison-20241115193300"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Amble-20241118213700-Edison-20241115193300"></span></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading1"><h1 id="November_16" data-mw-thread-id="h-November_16-20241116230500"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-November_16-20241116230500"></span>November 16<span data-mw-comment-end="h-November_16-20241116230500"></span></h1><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Miscellaneous&action=edit&section=7" title="Edit section: November 16"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span></div> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Equivalents_to_boba_liberals" data-mw-thread-id="h-Equivalents_to_boba_liberals-November_16-20241116230500"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Equivalents_to_boba_liberals-November_16-20241116230500"></span>Equivalents to <a href="/wiki/Boba_liberal" title="Boba liberal">boba liberals</a><span data-mw-comment-end="h-Equivalents_to_boba_liberals-November_16-20241116230500"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Miscellaneous&action=edit&section=8" title="Edit section: Equivalents to boba liberals"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Donmust90-20241116230500-Equivalents_to_boba_liberals"></span>Is there an equivalent to boba liberals who are a) South Asian, b) African-immigrant, c) Hispanic, d) Middle Eastern or West Asian, e) Central Asian? <a href="/wiki/User:Donmust90" title="User:Donmust90">Donmust90</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Donmust90" title="User talk:Donmust90">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Miscellaneous#c-Donmust90-20241116230500-Equivalents_to_boba_liberals" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:05, 16 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Donmust90-20241116230500-Equivalents_to_boba_liberals"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Donmust90-20241116230500-Equivalents_to_boba_liberals"></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading1"><h1 id="November_18" data-mw-thread-id="h-November_18-20241118114600"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-November_18-20241118114600"></span>November 18<span data-mw-comment-end="h-November_18-20241118114600"></span></h1><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Miscellaneous&action=edit&section=9" title="Edit section: November 18"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span></div> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Please_give_me_some_ideas_of_accomplishments_I_could_make_for_me_to_become_notable_enough_to_meet_WP:N" data-mw-thread-id="h-Please_give_me_some_ideas_of_accomplishments_I_could_make_for_me_to_become_notab-November_18-20241118114600"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Please_give_me_some_ideas_of_accomplishments_I_could_make_for_me_to_become_notab-November_18-20241118114600"></span>Please give me some ideas of accomplishments I could make for me to become notable enough to meet WP:N<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Please_give_me_some_ideas_of_accomplishments_I_could_make_for_me_to_become_notab-November_18-20241118114600"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Miscellaneous&action=edit&section=10" title="Edit section: Please give me some ideas of accomplishments I could make for me to become notable enough to meet WP:N"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Félix_An-20241118114600-Please_give_me_some_ideas_of_accomplishments_I_could_make_for_me_to_become_notab"></span>I am well aware of <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:N" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:N">WP:N</a>, and I most definitely won't write an article about myself and violate <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:AB" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:AB">WP:AB</a>. Therefore, what accomplishments could I try to achieve to have myself covered enough in <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:RS" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:RS">WP:RS</a> sources, thus making myself eligible to pass <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:N" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:N">WP:N</a>? I know this is a very open-ended question, but I think having a Wikipedia article about myself would be a fun accomplishment in my life, and I would like to do it the "correct"/"proper" way by actually making a notable accomplishment in my life, instead of the hundreds of new editors rushing onto <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:AFC" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:AFC">WP:AFC</a> to write an <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:AB" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:AB">WP:AB</a> about themselves. Please help suggest some ideas of accomplishments (e.g. sports, programming, careers, digital content/media) I could attempt that <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:RS" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:RS">WP:RS</a> would pick up on, thus making myself notable enough for editors to write an article about myself. Thanks! <a href="/wiki/User:F%C3%A9lix_An" title="User:Félix An">Félix An</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:F%C3%A9lix_An" title="User talk:Félix An">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Miscellaneous#c-Félix_An-20241118114600-Please_give_me_some_ideas_of_accomplishments_I_could_make_for_me_to_become_notab" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">11:46, 18 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Félix_An-20241118114600-Please_give_me_some_ideas_of_accomplishments_I_could_make_for_me_to_become_notab"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Félix_An-20241118114600-Please_give_me_some_ideas_of_accomplishments_I_could_make_for_me_to_become_notab"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-68.187.174.155-20241118140300-Félix_An-20241118114600"></span>You don't need to do anything at all. You need people, unrelated to you, to publish notable things about you. How often have you shown up in newspaper articles, magazine articles, television news programs? Has a movie been made about you? Have books been written about you? It isn't about what you have done. It is about what all those authors have done. The point of Wikipedia is to say "This guy has been discussed in media. This is a summary of what it all said. Here are the links to the original media sources."</dd> <dd>I have wondered why nobody has started a "Get me a Wikipedia article" campaign. Hit up every news organization asking them to interview you about your campaign to get a Wikipedia article. Then, eventually, you will be notable in the fact that you are trying to be notable, except there are many resources published to show your notability (or lack of notability, which makes you notable for being well published as not notable). <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/68.187.174.155" title="Special:Contributions/68.187.174.155">68.187.174.155</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:68.187.174.155" title="User talk:68.187.174.155">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Miscellaneous#c-68.187.174.155-20241118140300-Félix_An-20241118114600" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">14:03, 18 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-68.187.174.155-20241118140300-Félix_An-20241118114600"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-68.187.174.155-20241118140300-Félix_An-20241118114600"></span></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Clarityfiend-20241119030400-Félix_An-20241118114600"></span>With the exception of 68's suggestion, how could we possibly do that? We don't know anything about you, your strengths or background (and don't post any of that stuff here). Besides, if we had a good idea, why would we share it with you rather than do it ourselves? <a href="/wiki/User:Clarityfiend" title="User:Clarityfiend">Clarityfiend</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Clarityfiend" title="User talk:Clarityfiend">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Miscellaneous#c-Clarityfiend-20241119030400-Félix_An-20241118114600" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">03:04, 19 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Clarityfiend-20241119030400-Félix_An-20241118114600"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Clarityfiend-20241119030400-Félix_An-20241118114600"></span></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Lambiam-20241119044900-Félix_An-20241118114600"></span>Of the things you enjoy doing, which one do you predictably enjoy most? Or do you have a dream, like tackling some really tough problem? Concentrate on that one thing, putting all your energy and enthousiasm into getting very good at it. Better yet, do this because you enjoy it, not for possible recognition. --<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Lambiam#top" title="User talk:Lambiam">Lambiam</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Miscellaneous#c-Lambiam-20241119044900-Félix_An-20241118114600" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">04:49, 19 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Lambiam-20241119044900-Félix_An-20241118114600"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Lambiam-20241119044900-Félix_An-20241118114600"></span> <dl><dd><small><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Card_Zero-20241119055900-Lambiam-20241119044900"></span>I enjoy getting a Wikipedia article about myself! Also eating cake and sleeping past noon. <a href="/wiki/User:Card_Zero" title="User:Card Zero"><span style="background-color:#fffff0; border:1px #995; border-style:dotted solid solid dotted;"> Card Zero </span></a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Card_Zero" title="User talk:Card Zero">(talk)</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Miscellaneous#c-Card_Zero-20241119055900-Lambiam-20241119044900" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">05:59, 19 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Card_Zero-20241119055900-Lambiam-20241119044900"></span></small><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Card_Zero-20241119055900-Lambiam-20241119044900"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Félix_An-20241119120700-Lambiam-20241119044900"></span>Probably something to do with creating media. I wouldn't consider myself very athletic. I had an idea for writing a stage play/musical inspired by the incidents in this article, and I personally know someone who experienced the school in question: <a rel="nofollow" class="external free" href="https://thewalrus.ca/robert-land-academy/">https://thewalrus.ca/robert-land-academy/</a> <a href="/wiki/User:F%C3%A9lix_An" title="User:Félix An">Félix An</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:F%C3%A9lix_An" title="User talk:Félix An">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Miscellaneous#c-Félix_An-20241119120700-Lambiam-20241119044900" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">12:07, 19 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Félix_An-20241119120700-Lambiam-20241119044900"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Félix_An-20241119120700-Lambiam-20241119044900"></span></dd></dl></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Card_Zero-20241119060900-Félix_An-20241118114600"></span>I looked at your profile, and came up with a scheme where you take up <a href="/wiki/Ski_mountaineering" title="Ski mountaineering">ski mountaineering</a> and the <a href="/wiki/Canadian_Olympic_Committee" title="Canadian Olympic Committee">Canadian Olympic Committee</a> selects you for the <a href="/wiki/2026_Winter_Olympics" title="2026 Winter Olympics">2026 Winter Olympics</a> because it's a new olympic sport and nobody else was available. Then you perform really poorly but get a stub article anyway. But I suppose there <i>are</i> accomplished Canadian ski mountaineers already. I wish the world <a href="/wiki/Stone_skipping" title="Stone skipping">stone skipping</a> champions were notable, but that one's more of an idea for myself. <a href="/wiki/User:Card_Zero" title="User:Card Zero"><span style="background-color:#fffff0; border:1px #995; border-style:dotted solid solid dotted;"> Card Zero </span></a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Card_Zero" title="User talk:Card Zero">(talk)</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Miscellaneous#c-Card_Zero-20241119060900-Félix_An-20241118114600" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">06:09, 19 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Card_Zero-20241119060900-Félix_An-20241118114600"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Card_Zero-20241119060900-Félix_An-20241118114600"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Félix_An-20241119120300-Card_Zero-20241119060900"></span>No, these people beat me to it: <a rel="nofollow" class="external free" href="https://smcc.ski/team-canada/">https://smcc.ski/team-canada/</a> <a href="/wiki/User:F%C3%A9lix_An" title="User:Félix An">Félix An</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:F%C3%A9lix_An" title="User talk:Félix An">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Miscellaneous#c-Félix_An-20241119120300-Card_Zero-20241119060900" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">12:03, 19 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Félix_An-20241119120300-Card_Zero-20241119060900"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Félix_An-20241119120300-Card_Zero-20241119060900"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Nil_Einne-20241124223000-Félix_An-20241119120300"></span>Note that in any case <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:NOLYMPICS" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:NOLYMPICS">WP:NOLYMPICS</a> no longer presumes notability for mere participants in the olympics. You need to be a medalist, or at least perform very well (depending on the sport); or otherwise get significant coverage. See <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Notability_(sports)/Archive_43#Formal_proposal:_Olympic_athletes" title="Wikipedia talk:Notability (sports)/Archive 43">Wikipedia talk:Notability (sports)/Archive 43#Formal proposal: Olympic athletes</a>. I think we still have quite a few articles on mere participants created before the change, but I'm fairly sure new articles are likely to be deleted quickly if they don't provide more evidence of notability. Of course it's possible that the story of an athlete performing very poorly because there was no one better in this new sport and the athlete only took up the sport just over a year ago with the sole desire to get a Wikipedia article might be enough to get significant coverage so perhaps this would still work but this wouldn't come simply from participation. <a href="/wiki/User:Nil_Einne" title="User:Nil Einne">Nil Einne</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Nil_Einne" title="User talk:Nil Einne">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Miscellaneous#c-Nil_Einne-20241124223000-Félix_An-20241119120300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:30, 24 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Nil_Einne-20241124223000-Félix_An-20241119120300"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Nil_Einne-20241124223000-Félix_An-20241119120300"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Shantavira-20241119181700-Félix_An-20241118114600"></span>@<a href="/wiki/User:F%C3%A9lix_An" title="User:Félix An">Félix An</a> I urge you to read <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:An_article_about_yourself_isn%27t_necessarily_a_good_thing" title="Wikipedia:An article about yourself isn't necessarily a good thing">Wikipedia:An article about yourself isn't necessarily a good thing</a>. <a href="/wiki/User:Shantavira" title="User:Shantavira">Shantavira</a>|<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Shantavira" title="User talk:Shantavira"><sup>feed me</sup></a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Miscellaneous#c-Shantavira-20241119181700-Félix_An-20241118114600" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:17, 19 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Shantavira-20241119181700-Félix_An-20241118114600"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Shantavira-20241119181700-Félix_An-20241118114600"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Félix_An-20241120065300-Shantavira-20241119181700"></span>I read that essay, and it seems to be targeted towards people who would perform <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:COI" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:COI">WP:COI</a> or <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:AB" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:AB">WP:AB</a> writing. I don't mind, since I know people are going to write very embarrassing things about me, but as the old quote goes, I think "there's no such thing as bad publicity", and I definitely wouldn't violate <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:COI" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:COI">WP:COI</a> or <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:AB" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:AB">WP:AB</a>. <a href="/wiki/User:F%C3%A9lix_An" title="User:Félix An">Félix An</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:F%C3%A9lix_An" title="User talk:Félix An">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Miscellaneous#c-Félix_An-20241120065300-Shantavira-20241119181700" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">06:53, 20 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Félix_An-20241120065300-Shantavira-20241119181700"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Félix_An-20241120065300-Shantavira-20241119181700"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-JackofOz-20241120183900-Félix_An-20241120065300"></span>You could write a song like "<a href="/wiki/When_Will_I_Be_Famous%3F" title="When Will I Be Famous?">When Will I Be Famous?</a>". -- <a href="/wiki/User:JackofOz" title="User:JackofOz"><span style="font-family: Papyrus;">Jack of Oz</span></a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:JackofOz#top" title="User talk:JackofOz"><span style="font-size:85%; font-family: Verdana;"><sup>[pleasantries]</sup></span></a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Miscellaneous#c-JackofOz-20241120183900-Félix_An-20241120065300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:39, 20 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-JackofOz-20241120183900-Félix_An-20241120065300"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-JackofOz-20241120183900-Félix_An-20241120065300"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Baseball_Bugs-20241120232300-Félix_An-20241120065300"></span>Or you could write a book that's sufficiently far-fetched that it would get attention, as per the section just below. ←<a href="/wiki/User:Baseball_Bugs" title="User:Baseball Bugs">Baseball Bugs</a> <sup><i><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Baseball_Bugs" title="User talk:Baseball Bugs">What's up, Doc?</a></i></sup> <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Baseball_Bugs" title="Special:Contributions/Baseball Bugs">carrots</a>→ <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Miscellaneous#c-Baseball_Bugs-20241120232300-Félix_An-20241120065300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:23, 20 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Baseball_Bugs-20241120232300-Félix_An-20241120065300"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Baseball_Bugs-20241120232300-Félix_An-20241120065300"></span></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Nil_Einne-20241124215000-Félix_An-20241120065300"></span>As a regular at <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:BLP/N" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:BLP/N">WP:BLP/N</a> I can say many people have come to disagree your "no such thing as bad publicity" take. In fact many people want the article on them deleted once it's clear the section on some scandal isn't likely to be removed. This is particularly ironic when the history of the article strongly suggests there was a time when this person definitely wanted an article on them; but of course it happens even when that wasn't the case. <a href="/wiki/User:Nil_Einne" title="User:Nil Einne">Nil Einne</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Nil_Einne" title="User talk:Nil Einne">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Miscellaneous#c-Nil_Einne-20241124215000-Félix_An-20241120065300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:50, 24 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Nil_Einne-20241124215000-Félix_An-20241120065300"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Nil_Einne-20241124215000-Félix_An-20241120065300"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading1"><h1 id="November_20" data-mw-thread-id="h-November_20-20241120205600"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-November_20-20241120205600"></span>November 20<span data-mw-comment-end="h-November_20-20241120205600"></span></h1><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Miscellaneous&action=edit&section=11" title="Edit section: November 20"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span></div> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Static_technology" data-mw-thread-id="h-Static_technology-November_20-20241120205600"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Static_technology-November_20-20241120205600"></span>Static technology<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Static_technology-November_20-20241120205600"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Miscellaneous&action=edit&section=12" title="Edit section: Static technology"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-ApricotPine-20241120205600-Static_technology"></span>In the future, could we have another planet that is very similar to Earth, except progress is not allowed, so the population are required to remain at <a href="/wiki/Neolithic" title="Neolithic">Neolithic</a> levels of technology? (The population are not informed about the outside world.) </p><p>The reason I ask is because of <a href="/wiki/The_Meat_Eaters" title="The Meat Eaters">this essay</a>. <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:ApricotPine&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:ApricotPine (page does not exist)">ApricotPine</a> (<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:ApricotPine&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User talk:ApricotPine (page does not exist)">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Miscellaneous#c-ApricotPine-20241120205600-Static_technology" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:56, 20 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-ApricotPine-20241120205600-Static_technology"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-ApricotPine-20241120205600-Static_technology"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Lambiam-20241120234300-ApricotPine-20241120205600"></span>For one thing, we are not supposed to offer predictions. Anything could happen in the future unless impossible by the <a href="/wiki/Logic" title="Logic">laws of reason</a> or by the <a href="/wiki/Scientific_law" title="Scientific law">laws of nature</a>. So we can only discuss whether scenarios exist leading to this outcome while not violating known laws.</dd> <dd>It is unclear who, in the sketched dystopia (or eutopia, depending on one's views), is enforcing the proscription of progress. Is this a culturally accepted restriction, in which the traditional way of life is revered so much that even the act of suggesting innovations is considered an abomination? In that case it is irrelevant whether they know about technologically advanced societies. Or are they ignorant about science, with an outside force eliminating people with an sharp mind who might discover and develop new technologies improving the way of life? --<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Lambiam#top" title="User talk:Lambiam">Lambiam</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Miscellaneous#c-Lambiam-20241120234300-ApricotPine-20241120205600" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:43, 20 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Lambiam-20241120234300-ApricotPine-20241120205600"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Lambiam-20241120234300-ApricotPine-20241120205600"></span></dd> <dd><a href="/wiki/Peter_J._Bowler" title="Peter J. Bowler"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Card_Zero-20241121040900-ApricotPine-20241120205600"></span>Peter J. Bowler</a> wrote a book called <i>The invention of progress,</i> and <a href="/wiki/Robert_Nisbet" title="Robert Nisbet">Robert Nisbet</a> wrote <i>A history of the idea of progress.</i> I haven't read either of these, but would like to. Clearly <a href="/wiki/Progress#Philosophy" title="Progress">Progress#Philosophy</a> <i>is</i> an idea, which a culture can become aware of and mythologize. Prior to this awareness, the culture may believe itself to be static, to exist in eternal golden stability as a <a href="/w/index.php?title=Static_society&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Static society (page does not exist)">static society</a>, and may mythologize <i>that.</i> As Lambiam indicated, if progress is considered sufficiently sinful, it may be successfully prevented indefinitely, even in the face of other cultures that embrace innovations. The <a href="/wiki/Amish" title="Amish">Amish</a> provide a kind of example, although they're more conservative about innovation than completely opposed to it. I've heard the interesting suggestion that the reason for the apparent excruciatingly slow rate of progress throughout the <a href="/wiki/Paleolithic_era" class="mw-redirect" title="Paleolithic era">paleolithic era</a> and to some extent the <a href="/wiki/Neolithic" title="Neolithic">neolithic</a> was that a lot of creative effort went into <i>preventing innovation from taking place,</i> because creativity is not identical to innovation.</dd> <dd>But what does all this have to do with the essay about meat-eating? <a href="/wiki/User:Card_Zero" title="User:Card Zero"><span style="background-color:#fffff0; border:1px #995; border-style:dotted solid solid dotted;"> Card Zero </span></a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Card_Zero" title="User talk:Card Zero">(talk)</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Miscellaneous#c-Card_Zero-20241121040900-ApricotPine-20241120205600" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">04:09, 21 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Card_Zero-20241121040900-ApricotPine-20241120205600"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Card_Zero-20241121040900-ApricotPine-20241120205600"></span></dd></dl> <dl><dd><span class="template-ping"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Viriditas-20241124204800-ApricotPine-20241120205600"></span>@<a href="/w/index.php?title=User:ApricotPine&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:ApricotPine (page does not exist)">ApricotPine</a>:</span> This was the subject of multiple <i>Star Trek</i> episodes throughout the history of the franchise. It never turned out well. Ironically, (and take this with a grain of salt, please) there is amusing speculation among enthusiasts of the <a href="/wiki/Fermi_paradox" title="Fermi paradox">Fermi paradox</a> (as a <a href="/wiki/Thought_experiment" title="Thought experiment">thought experiment</a>), that one of these solutions, the <a href="/wiki/Zoo_hypothesis" title="Zoo hypothesis">Zoo hypothesis</a>, however unlikely, implies that <i>we</i>, humans on Earth, are the species where "progress" (see the <a href="/wiki/Kardashev_scale" title="Kardashev scale">Kardashev scale</a>) is not "allowed". While most people will dismiss this as total nonsense, something weird is going on with these numbers: our species has been around for 6 million years, modern humans evolved 200k years ago, and civilization is only 6k years old. From one POV, we've had plenty of time to adapt and overcome our limitations and progress as a species, and we've basically done nothing. We are still, pretty much the same hairless apes with the same biases and preferences and weird hopes and dreams. So in a way, we are the people you describe, Zoo hypothesis or not. Our values have not changed in 6000 years. <a href="/wiki/User:Viriditas" title="User:Viriditas">Viriditas</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Viriditas" title="User talk:Viriditas">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Miscellaneous#c-Viriditas-20241124204800-ApricotPine-20241120205600" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:48, 24 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Viriditas-20241124204800-ApricotPine-20241120205600"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Viriditas-20241124204800-ApricotPine-20241120205600"></span></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading1"><h1 id="November_21" data-mw-thread-id="h-November_21-20241121035700"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-November_21-20241121035700"></span>November 21<span data-mw-comment-end="h-November_21-20241121035700"></span></h1><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Miscellaneous&action=edit&section=13" title="Edit section: November 21"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span></div> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Integrated_LUFS_calculation" data-mw-thread-id="h-Integrated_LUFS_calculation-November_21-20241121035700"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Integrated_LUFS_calculation-November_21-20241121035700"></span>Integrated <a href="/wiki/LUFS" title="LUFS">LUFS</a> calculation<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Integrated_LUFS_calculation-November_21-20241121035700"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Miscellaneous&action=edit&section=14" title="Edit section: Integrated LUFS calculation"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-2001:448A:3070:DF97:6CA1:FCBB:A642:E2B2-20241121035700-Integrated_LUFS_calculation"></span>Is it correct that the integrated LUFS is based on the momentary loudness rather than individual samples? BTW, I've have already implemented an option to select a source (either individual samples, momentary, or even short-term) to use for the integrated LUFS calculation on the loudness (LUFS) meter part of <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://codepen.io/TF3RDL/pen/gONWJby">my own peakmeter</a> so this can be tested. <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/2001:448A:3070:DF97:6CA1:FCBB:A642:E2B2" title="Special:Contributions/2001:448A:3070:DF97:6CA1:FCBB:A642:E2B2">2001:448A:3070:DF97:6CA1:FCBB:A642:E2B2</a> (<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:2001:448A:3070:DF97:6CA1:FCBB:A642:E2B2&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User talk:2001:448A:3070:DF97:6CA1:FCBB:A642:E2B2 (page does not exist)">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Miscellaneous#c-2001:448A:3070:DF97:6CA1:FCBB:A642:E2B2-20241121035700-Integrated_LUFS_calculation" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">03:57, 21 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-2001:448A:3070:DF97:6CA1:FCBB:A642:E2B2-20241121035700-Integrated_LUFS_calculation"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-2001:448A:3070:DF97:6CA1:FCBB:A642:E2B2-20241121035700-Integrated_LUFS_calculation"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Philvoids-20241121114600-2001:448A:3070:DF97:6CA1:FCBB:A642:E2B2-20241121035700"></span><figure class="mw-default-size" typeof="mw:File/Thumb"><a href="/wiki/File:VU-meter-reponse-graph.svg" class="mw-file-description"><img src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/f0/VU-meter-reponse-graph.svg/220px-VU-meter-reponse-graph.svg.png" decoding="async" width="220" height="150" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/f0/VU-meter-reponse-graph.svg/330px-VU-meter-reponse-graph.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/f0/VU-meter-reponse-graph.svg/440px-VU-meter-reponse-graph.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="375" data-file-height="255"/></a><figcaption>The response of a moving-coil VU meter (black line) compared to an electronic PPM indicator (grey area) of a <a href="/wiki/Drum_beat" title="Drum beat">drum beat</a>. Level is in <a href="/wiki/Decibel" title="Decibel">dB</a> and time is in seconds</figcaption></figure> Audio samples have pressure amplitudes but do not individually exhibit <a href="/wiki/Loudness" title="Loudness">Loudness</a> that must be calculated by summation of energy in <a href="/wiki/Critical_band" title="Critical band">critical bands</a>. See the EBU reference <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://tech.ebu.ch/docs/r/r128.pdf">LOUDNESS NORMALISATION AND PERMITTED MAXIMUM LEVEL OF AUDIO SIGNALS</a>. An estimate of momentarily perceived peak loudness in broadcasting is meaningful only if it integrates over long enough time to properly resolve the critical band containing the lowest audio frequency component that may be 20 Hz. Note that many broadcasting sound engineers prefer the ballistic response of VU meters with which they are familiar, see illustration. <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Philvoids&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Philvoids (page does not exist)">Philvoids</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Philvoids" title="User talk:Philvoids">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Miscellaneous#c-Philvoids-20241121114600-2001:448A:3070:DF97:6CA1:FCBB:A642:E2B2-20241121035700" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">11:46, 21 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Philvoids-20241121114600-2001:448A:3070:DF97:6CA1:FCBB:A642:E2B2-20241121035700"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Philvoids-20241121114600-2001:448A:3070:DF97:6CA1:FCBB:A642:E2B2-20241121035700"></span></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading1"><h1 id="November_22" data-mw-thread-id="h-November_22-20241122013200"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-November_22-20241122013200"></span>November 22<span data-mw-comment-end="h-November_22-20241122013200"></span></h1><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Miscellaneous&action=edit&section=15" title="Edit section: November 22"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span></div> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Arctic_snow_removal" data-mw-thread-id="h-Arctic_snow_removal-November_22-20241122013200"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Arctic_snow_removal-November_22-20241122013200"></span>Arctic snow removal<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Arctic_snow_removal-November_22-20241122013200"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Miscellaneous&action=edit&section=16" title="Edit section: Arctic snow removal"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-68.187.174.155-20241122013200-Arctic_snow_removal"></span>In arctic cities where there is no sun to melt snow for weeks and it can snow multiple inches each day, where do they put the snow? Is it just pushed to the edge of town as a massive snow wall? Do they truck it to a temporary snow fill? Do they snow melting facilities? <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/68.187.174.155" title="Special:Contributions/68.187.174.155">68.187.174.155</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:68.187.174.155" title="User talk:68.187.174.155">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Miscellaneous#c-68.187.174.155-20241122013200-Arctic_snow_removal" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:32, 22 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-68.187.174.155-20241122013200-Arctic_snow_removal"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-68.187.174.155-20241122013200-Arctic_snow_removal"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Baseball_Bugs-20241122014200-68.187.174.155-20241122013200"></span>In larger cities, at least, they pile the snow in public parking lots and such. ←<a href="/wiki/User:Baseball_Bugs" title="User:Baseball Bugs">Baseball Bugs</a> <sup><i><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Baseball_Bugs" title="User talk:Baseball Bugs">What's up, Doc?</a></i></sup> <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Baseball_Bugs" title="Special:Contributions/Baseball Bugs">carrots</a>→ <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Miscellaneous#c-Baseball_Bugs-20241122014200-68.187.174.155-20241122013200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:42, 22 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Baseball_Bugs-20241122014200-68.187.174.155-20241122013200"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Baseball_Bugs-20241122014200-68.187.174.155-20241122013200"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-94.1.211.243-20241122074400-Baseball_Bugs-20241122014200"></span>And in some they include, in and between the buildings, walkways and retail outlets, etc. one floor level above the ground, from which snow can be swept, so they don't need to use the outdoor snow-buried ground. [Ob pers: Helsinki.] {The poster formerly known as 87.812.230.195} <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/94.1.211.243" title="Special:Contributions/94.1.211.243">94.1.211.243</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:94.1.211.243" title="User talk:94.1.211.243">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Miscellaneous#c-94.1.211.243-20241122074400-Baseball_Bugs-20241122014200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">07:44, 22 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-94.1.211.243-20241122074400-Baseball_Bugs-20241122014200"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-94.1.211.243-20241122074400-Baseball_Bugs-20241122014200"></span></dd></dl></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Amble-20241122180900-68.187.174.155-20241122013200"></span>Here is a video of snow removal in <a href="/wiki/Troms%C3%B8_(city)" title="Tromsø (city)">Tromsø</a>, the third largest city in the Arctic Circle: <a rel="nofollow" class="external autonumber" href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hhr2PiKvPqk">[5]</a>. You can see a few options including "spray it into the trees", but most of the snow in the video is collected into large dump trucks and then unloaded into the water of the straits surrounding the city. --<a href="/wiki/User:Amble" title="User:Amble">Amble</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Amble" title="User talk:Amble">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Miscellaneous#c-Amble-20241122180900-68.187.174.155-20241122013200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:09, 22 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Amble-20241122180900-68.187.174.155-20241122013200"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Amble-20241122180900-68.187.174.155-20241122013200"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Philvoids-20241122182100-Amble-20241122180900"></span>During the snow season end of November to end of March <a href="/wiki/Reykyavik" class="mw-redirect" title="Reykyavik">Reykyavik</a>, Iceland has a <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://reykjavik.is/en/snow">contingency plan</a> for snow clearing whose priorities are 1: Main roads, important connecting roads for emergency services, busy collecting roads, and bus routes; 2: Other collecting roads and access to preschools and primary schools and 3: Residential streets. Roads are cleared by snow-removing machines that clear ice using salt or preferably brine to ensure safety with as little salt as possible. The city provides depots where residents can collect sand and salt for use in their neighborhoods and driveways. The <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://reykjavik.is/en/snow">reference</a> gives service details and maps in English. National snow forecasts are <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://www.snow-forecast.com/maps/dynamic/iceland">shown here</a> with past climate data in the first rerferenced article. <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Philvoids&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Philvoids (page does not exist)">Philvoids</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Philvoids" title="User talk:Philvoids">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Miscellaneous#c-Philvoids-20241122182100-Amble-20241122180900" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:21, 22 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Philvoids-20241122182100-Amble-20241122180900"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Philvoids-20241122182100-Amble-20241122180900"></span></dd></dl></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Ghirlandajo-20241123221600-68.187.174.155-20241122013200"></span>In Moscow and St. Petersburg snow is transported by lorries to snow-melting machines. In ordinary Russian cities they transport piles of snow to huge snow dumps in the countryside. This transportation is a rather costly enterprise, so smaller towns and neighbourhoods just leave a pile of snow in each yard to wait until the sun melts it in late April. <a href="/wiki/User:Ghirlandajo" title="User:Ghirlandajo">Ghirla</a><sup><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Ghirlandajo" title="User talk:Ghirlandajo">-трёп-</a></sup> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Miscellaneous#c-Ghirlandajo-20241123221600-68.187.174.155-20241122013200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:16, 23 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Ghirlandajo-20241123221600-68.187.174.155-20241122013200"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Ghirlandajo-20241123221600-68.187.174.155-20241122013200"></span> <dl><dd><a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q5Stlkhw1c8"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Ghirlandajo-20241123221700-Ghirlandajo-20241123221600"></span>That's how they deal with snow in Alaska</a> <a href="/wiki/User:Ghirlandajo" title="User:Ghirlandajo">Ghirla</a><sup><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Ghirlandajo" title="User talk:Ghirlandajo">-трёп-</a></sup> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Miscellaneous#c-Ghirlandajo-20241123221700-Ghirlandajo-20241123221600" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:17, 23 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Ghirlandajo-20241123221700-Ghirlandajo-20241123221600"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Ghirlandajo-20241123221700-Ghirlandajo-20241123221600"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading1"><h1 id="November_23" data-mw-thread-id="h-November_23-20241123134400"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-November_23-20241123134400"></span>November 23<span data-mw-comment-end="h-November_23-20241123134400"></span></h1><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Miscellaneous&action=edit&section=17" title="Edit section: November 23"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span></div> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Odd_snow_traces" data-mw-thread-id="h-Odd_snow_traces-November_23-20241123134400"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Odd_snow_traces-November_23-20241123134400"></span>Odd snow traces<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Odd_snow_traces-November_23-20241123134400"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Miscellaneous&action=edit&section=18" title="Edit section: Odd snow traces"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Brandmeister-20241123134400-Odd_snow_traces"></span>I've recently noticed <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://imgur.com/a/FFwugeA">these strange dot-like traces on snow</a> where I live. The place is outside of tree cover and my second guess were rain drops, but on the second photo below the traces appear only on the fringe of snow cover. What could form them? <a href="/wiki/User:Brandmeister" title="User:Brandmeister">Brandmeister</a><sup><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Brandmeister" title="User talk:Brandmeister">talk</a></sup> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Miscellaneous#c-Brandmeister-20241123134400-Odd_snow_traces" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">13:44, 23 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Brandmeister-20241123134400-Odd_snow_traces"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Brandmeister-20241123134400-Odd_snow_traces"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-142.112.149.206-20241123141100-Brandmeister-20241123134400"></span>The "dotted" area looks to me as if someone scattered <a href="/wiki/Road_salt" title="Road salt">road salt</a> over that part of the snow, either by hand or machine. Especially at the bottom of the top photo, you can see some of the individual pieces of salt in each "dot". In the second photo, the snowless area could have been a strip cleared by use of a larger amount of salt and maybe it was not scattered evenly and spread into the "dotted" area. --<a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/142.112.149.206" title="Special:Contributions/142.112.149.206">142.112.149.206</a> (<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:142.112.149.206&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User talk:142.112.149.206 (page does not exist)">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Miscellaneous#c-142.112.149.206-20241123141100-Brandmeister-20241123134400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">14:11, 23 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-142.112.149.206-20241123141100-Brandmeister-20241123134400"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-142.112.149.206-20241123141100-Brandmeister-20241123134400"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Brandmeister-20241123161000-142.112.149.206-20241123141100"></span>Sounds plausible, thanks. <a href="/wiki/User:Brandmeister" title="User:Brandmeister">Brandmeister</a><sup><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Brandmeister" title="User talk:Brandmeister">talk</a></sup> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Miscellaneous#c-Brandmeister-20241123161000-142.112.149.206-20241123141100" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:10, 23 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Brandmeister-20241123161000-142.112.149.206-20241123141100"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Brandmeister-20241123161000-142.112.149.206-20241123141100"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading1"><h1 id="November_24" data-mw-thread-id="h-November_24-20241124210200"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-November_24-20241124210200"></span>November 24<span data-mw-comment-end="h-November_24-20241124210200"></span></h1><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Miscellaneous&action=edit&section=19" title="Edit section: November 24"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span></div> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="US_clothing_requirements_circa_1914" data-mw-thread-id="h-US_clothing_requirements_circa_1914-November_24-20241124210200"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-US_clothing_requirements_circa_1914-November_24-20241124210200"></span>US clothing requirements circa 1914<span data-mw-comment-end="h-US_clothing_requirements_circa_1914-November_24-20241124210200"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Miscellaneous&action=edit&section=20" title="Edit section: US clothing requirements circa 1914"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Viriditas-20241124210200-US_clothing_requirements_circa_1914"></span>I'm reading about the California Impressionists circa 1914, and I can't get over the photos of these artists painting en plein air in full, three-piece suits. To my eyes in 2024, it seems absolutely ridiculous, but I am curious about the social conventions behind this. Was it considered improper for a "gentleman" to paint outside in a shirt and shorts? Why? And who was behind enforcing this? The whole thing makes no sense to me. <a href="/wiki/User:Viriditas" title="User:Viriditas">Viriditas</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Viriditas" title="User talk:Viriditas">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Miscellaneous#c-Viriditas-20241124210200-US_clothing_requirements_circa_1914" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:02, 24 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Viriditas-20241124210200-US_clothing_requirements_circa_1914"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Viriditas-20241124210200-US_clothing_requirements_circa_1914"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Alansplodge-20241124225500-Viriditas-20241124210200"></span>Appearing in your shirt without a jacket was definitely the mark of a labourer in the 19th-century. A saying was "From shirtsleeves to shirtsleeves in three generations" which meant that the wealth accumulated by one generation was likely to be squandered by their grandchildren. <a rel="nofollow" class="external autonumber" href="https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=IYOcAQAAQBAJ&pg=PA44">[6]</a> This formality was a long time in passing; in the City of London office where I started work in the 1970s, a business suit was required for males and you were expected to put on your jacket if you were meeting a customer or even a manager (there was no air conditioning). <a href="/wiki/User:Alansplodge" title="User:Alansplodge">Alansplodge</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Alansplodge" title="User talk:Alansplodge">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Miscellaneous#c-Alansplodge-20241124225500-Viriditas-20241124210200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:55, 24 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Alansplodge-20241124225500-Viriditas-20241124210200"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Alansplodge-20241124225500-Viriditas-20241124210200"></span></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="1930s_leukemia_treatment" data-mw-thread-id="h-1930s_leukemia_treatment-November_24-20241124215000"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-1930s_leukemia_treatment-November_24-20241124215000"></span>1930s leukemia treatment<span data-mw-comment-end="h-1930s_leukemia_treatment-November_24-20241124215000"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Miscellaneous&action=edit&section=21" title="Edit section: 1930s leukemia treatment"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-86.130.15.246-20241124215000-1930s_leukemia_treatment"></span>Were there treatments for leukemia in the 1930s? <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/86.130.15.246" title="Special:Contributions/86.130.15.246">86.130.15.246</a> (<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:86.130.15.246&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User talk:86.130.15.246 (page does not exist)">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Miscellaneous#c-86.130.15.246-20241124215000-1930s_leukemia_treatment" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:50, 24 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-86.130.15.246-20241124215000-1930s_leukemia_treatment"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-86.130.15.246-20241124215000-1930s_leukemia_treatment"></span> </p>    </div><noscript><img src="https://login.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:CentralAutoLogin/start?type=1x1" alt="" width="1" height="1" style="border: none; position: absolute;"></noscript> <div class="printfooter" data-nosnippet="">Retrieved from "<a dir="ltr" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Miscellaneous&oldid=1259397779">https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Miscellaneous&oldid=1259397779</a>"</div></div> <div id="catlinks" class="catlinks" data-mw="interface"><div id="mw-normal-catlinks" class="mw-normal-catlinks"><a href="/wiki/Help:Category" title="Help:Category">Categories</a>: <ul><li><a href="/wiki/Category:Wikipedia_resources_for_researchers" title="Category:Wikipedia resources for researchers">Wikipedia resources for researchers</a></li><li><a href="/wiki/Category:Wikipedia_help_forums" title="Category:Wikipedia help forums">Wikipedia help forums</a></li><li><a href="/wiki/Category:Wikipedia_reference_desk" title="Category:Wikipedia reference desk">Wikipedia reference desk</a></li></ul></div><div id="mw-hidden-catlinks" class="mw-hidden-catlinks mw-hidden-cats-hidden">Hidden categories: <ul><li><a href="/wiki/Category:Non-talk_pages_that_are_automatically_signed" title="Category:Non-talk pages that are automatically signed">Non-talk pages that are automatically signed</a></li><li><a href="/wiki/Category:Pages_automatically_checked_for_incorrect_links" title="Category:Pages automatically checked for incorrect links">Pages automatically checked for incorrect links</a></li><li><a href="/wiki/Category:Wikipedia_help_pages_with_dated_sections" title="Category:Wikipedia help pages with dated sections">Wikipedia help pages with dated sections</a></li></ul></div></div> </div> </main> </div> <div class="mw-footer-container"> <footer id="footer" class="mw-footer" > <ul id="footer-info"> <li id="footer-info-lastmod"> This page was last edited on 24 November 2024, at 22:55<span class="anonymous-show"> (UTC)</span>.</li> <li id="footer-info-copyright">Text is available under the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Text_of_the_Creative_Commons_Attribution-ShareAlike_4.0_International_License" title="Wikipedia:Text of the Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike 4.0 International License">Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike 4.0 License</a>; additional terms may apply. By using this site, you agree to the <a href="https://foundation.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:MyLanguage/Policy:Terms_of_Use" class="extiw" title="foundation:Special:MyLanguage/Policy:Terms of Use">Terms of Use</a> and <a href="https://foundation.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:MyLanguage/Policy:Privacy_policy" class="extiw" title="foundation:Special:MyLanguage/Policy:Privacy policy">Privacy Policy</a>. Wikipedia® is a registered trademark of the <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://wikimediafoundation.org/">Wikimedia Foundation, Inc.</a>, a non-profit organization.</li> </ul> <ul id="footer-places"> <li id="footer-places-privacy"><a href="https://foundation.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:MyLanguage/Policy:Privacy_policy">Privacy policy</a></li> <li id="footer-places-about"><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:About">About Wikipedia</a></li> <li id="footer-places-disclaimers"><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:General_disclaimer">Disclaimers</a></li> <li id="footer-places-contact"><a href="//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Contact_us">Contact Wikipedia</a></li> <li id="footer-places-wm-codeofconduct"><a href="https://foundation.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:MyLanguage/Policy:Universal_Code_of_Conduct">Code of Conduct</a></li> <li id="footer-places-developers"><a href="https://developer.wikimedia.org">Developers</a></li> <li id="footer-places-statslink"><a href="https://stats.wikimedia.org/#/en.wikipedia.org">Statistics</a></li> <li id="footer-places-cookiestatement"><a href="https://foundation.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:MyLanguage/Policy:Cookie_statement">Cookie statement</a></li> <li id="footer-places-mobileview"><a href="//en.m.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Miscellaneous&mobileaction=toggle_view_mobile" class="noprint stopMobileRedirectToggle">Mobile view</a></li> </ul> <ul id="footer-icons" class="noprint"> <li id="footer-copyrightico"><a href="https://wikimediafoundation.org/" class="cdx-button cdx-button--fake-button cdx-button--size-large cdx-button--fake-button--enabled"><img src="/static/images/footer/wikimedia-button.svg" width="84" height="29" alt="Wikimedia Foundation" loading="lazy"></a></li> <li id="footer-poweredbyico"><a href="https://www.mediawiki.org/" class="cdx-button cdx-button--fake-button cdx-button--size-large cdx-button--fake-button--enabled"><img src="/w/resources/assets/poweredby_mediawiki.svg" alt="Powered by MediaWiki" width="88" height="31" loading="lazy"></a></li> </ul> </footer> </div> </div> </div> <div class="vector-settings" id="p-dock-bottom"> <ul></ul> </div><script>(RLQ=window.RLQ||[]).push(function(){mw.log.warn("This page is using the deprecated ResourceLoader module \"mediawiki.ui.button\".\n[1.41] Please use Codex. See migration guidelines: https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Codex/Migrating_from_MediaWiki_UI");mw.config.set({"wgHostname":"mw-web.codfw.main-f69cdc8f6-qpbcg","wgBackendResponseTime":122,"wgDiscussionToolsPageThreads":[{"headingLevel":1,"name":"h-2601:646:8082:BA0:90B6:D6C1:A446:513E-20241112162400","type":"heading","level":0,"id":"h-November_12-20241112162400","replies":[{"headingLevel":2,"name":"h-2601:646:8082:BA0:90B6:D6C1:A446:513E-20241112162400","type":"heading","level":0,"id":"h-Military_budget_of_the_USSR-November_12-20241112162400","replies":[{"timestamp":"20241112162400","author":"2601:646:8082:BA0:90B6:D6C1:A446:513E","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-2601:646:8082:BA0:90B6:D6C1:A446:513E-20241112162400-Military_budget_of_the_USSR","replies":[{"timestamp":"20241112200400","author":"DOR (HK)","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-DOR_(HK)-20241112200400-2601:646:8082:BA0:90B6:D6C1:A446:513E-20241112162400","replies":[],"displayName":"DOR (ex-HK)"},{"timestamp":"20241112225800","author":"Stanleykswong","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Stanleykswong-20241112225800-2601:646:8082:BA0:90B6:D6C1:A446:513E-20241112162400","replies":[{"timestamp":"20241112232600","author":"Lambiam","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Lambiam-20241112232600-Stanleykswong-20241112225800","replies":[{"timestamp":"20241113094900","author":"Stanleykswong","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Stanleykswong-20241113094900-Lambiam-20241112232600","replies":[{"timestamp":"20241114054400","author":"2601:646:8082:BA0:90B6:D6C1:A446:513E","type":"comment","level":5,"id":"c-2601:646:8082:BA0:90B6:D6C1:A446:513E-20241114054400-Stanleykswong-20241113094900","replies":[]}]}]},{"timestamp":"20241114090400","author":"PiusImpavidus","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-PiusImpavidus-20241114090400-Stanleykswong-20241112225800","replies":[{"timestamp":"20241114111800","author":"Lambiam","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Lambiam-20241114111800-PiusImpavidus-20241114090400","replies":[]}]}]},{"timestamp":"20241115123800","author":"2601:646:8082:BA0:CD5E:73B7:6DF6:2CF6","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-2601:646:8082:BA0:CD5E:73B7:6DF6:2CF6-20241115123800-2601:646:8082:BA0:90B6:D6C1:A446:513E-20241112162400","replies":[{"timestamp":"20241115172100","author":"PiusImpavidus","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-PiusImpavidus-20241115172100-2601:646:8082:BA0:CD5E:73B7:6DF6:2CF6-20241115123800","replies":[]}]}]}]}]},{"headingLevel":1,"name":"h-Viennese_Waltz-20241114080600","type":"heading","level":0,"id":"h-November_14-20241114080600","replies":[{"headingLevel":2,"name":"h-Viennese_Waltz-20241114080600","type":"heading","level":0,"id":"h-Air_travel_by_ethnicity_in_the_USA_in_the_1960s-November_14-20241114080600","replies":[{"timestamp":"20241114080600","author":"Viennese Waltz","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Viennese_Waltz-20241114080600-Air_travel_by_ethnicity_in_the_USA_in_the_1960s","replies":[{"timestamp":"20241114105300","author":"Lambiam","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Lambiam-20241114105300-Viennese_Waltz-20241114080600","replies":[{"timestamp":"20241114151700","author":"Viennese Waltz","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Viennese_Waltz-20241114151700-Lambiam-20241114105300","replies":[]}]},{"timestamp":"20241114172900","author":"Nanonic","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Nanonic-20241114172900-Viennese_Waltz-20241114080600","replies":[]},{"timestamp":"20241114173300","author":"68.187.174.155","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-68.187.174.155-20241114173300-Viennese_Waltz-20241114080600","replies":[{"timestamp":"20241115165500","author":"Khajidha","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Khajidha-20241115165500-68.187.174.155-20241114173300","replies":[{"timestamp":"20241115193300","author":"68.187.174.155","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-68.187.174.155-20241115193300-Khajidha-20241115165500","replies":[{"timestamp":"20241116064500","author":"Viennese Waltz","type":"comment","level":5,"id":"c-Viennese_Waltz-20241116064500-68.187.174.155-20241115193300","replies":[{"timestamp":"20241120184000","author":"68.187.174.155","type":"comment","level":6,"id":"c-68.187.174.155-20241120184000-Viennese_Waltz-20241116064500","replies":[{"timestamp":"20241120184500","author":"Viennese Waltz","type":"comment","level":7,"id":"c-Viennese_Waltz-20241120184500-68.187.174.155-20241120184000","replies":[]}]},{"timestamp":"20241118175700","author":"Alansplodge","type":"comment","level":6,"id":"c-Alansplodge-20241118175700-Viennese_Waltz-20241116064500","replies":[{"timestamp":"20241118181800","author":"Viennese Waltz","type":"comment","level":7,"id":"c-Viennese_Waltz-20241118181800-Alansplodge-20241118175700","replies":[{"timestamp":"20241119152600","author":"Alansplodge","type":"comment","level":8,"id":"c-Alansplodge-20241119152600-Viennese_Waltz-20241118181800","replies":[]}]}]}]}]}],"displayName":"User:Khajidha"}]}]}]}]},{"headingLevel":1,"name":"h-Edison-20241115193300","type":"heading","level":0,"id":"h-November_15-20241115193300","replies":[{"headingLevel":2,"name":"h-Edison-20241115193300","type":"heading","level":0,"id":"h-History_of_skiplagging-November_15-20241115193300","replies":[{"timestamp":"20241115193300","author":"Edison","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Edison-20241115193300-History_of_skiplagging","replies":[{"timestamp":"20241115200300","author":"68.187.174.155","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-68.187.174.155-20241115200300-Edison-20241115193300","replies":[{"timestamp":"20241115231300","author":"HiLo48","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-HiLo48-20241115231300-68.187.174.155-20241115200300","replies":[{"timestamp":"20241116153000","author":"85.76.117.61","type":"comment","level":5,"id":"c-85.76.117.61-20241116153000-HiLo48-20241115231300","replies":[{"timestamp":"20241118122500","author":"Hassocks5489","type":"comment","level":6,"id":"c-Hassocks5489-20241118122500-85.76.117.61-20241116153000","replies":[{"timestamp":"20241118191200","author":"JuniperChill","type":"comment","level":7,"id":"c-JuniperChill-20241118191200-Hassocks5489-20241118122500","replies":[{"timestamp":"20241118220300","author":"Hassocks5489","type":"comment","level":8,"id":"c-Hassocks5489-20241118220300-JuniperChill-20241118191200","replies":[{"timestamp":"20241119003400","author":"JuniperChill","type":"comment","level":9,"id":"c-JuniperChill-20241119003400-Hassocks5489-20241118220300","replies":[]}],"displayName":"Hassocks"}]}],"displayName":"Hassocks"}]}]}]},{"timestamp":"20241118213700","author":"Amble","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Amble-20241118213700-Edison-20241115193300","replies":[]}]}]}]},{"headingLevel":1,"name":"h-Donmust90-20241116230500","type":"heading","level":0,"id":"h-November_16-20241116230500","replies":[{"headingLevel":2,"name":"h-Donmust90-20241116230500","type":"heading","level":0,"id":"h-Equivalents_to_boba_liberals-November_16-20241116230500","replies":[{"timestamp":"20241116230500","author":"Donmust90","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Donmust90-20241116230500-Equivalents_to_boba_liberals","replies":[]}]}]},{"headingLevel":1,"name":"h-Félix_An-20241118114600","type":"heading","level":0,"id":"h-November_18-20241118114600","replies":[{"headingLevel":2,"name":"h-Félix_An-20241118114600","type":"heading","level":0,"id":"h-Please_give_me_some_ideas_of_accomplishments_I_could_make_for_me_to_become_notab-November_18-20241118114600","replies":[{"timestamp":"20241118114600","author":"Félix An","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Félix_An-20241118114600-Please_give_me_some_ideas_of_accomplishments_I_could_make_for_me_to_become_notab","replies":[{"timestamp":"20241118140300","author":"68.187.174.155","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-68.187.174.155-20241118140300-Félix_An-20241118114600","replies":[]},{"timestamp":"20241119030400","author":"Clarityfiend","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Clarityfiend-20241119030400-Félix_An-20241118114600","replies":[]},{"timestamp":"20241119044900","author":"Lambiam","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Lambiam-20241119044900-Félix_An-20241118114600","replies":[{"timestamp":"20241119055900","author":"Card Zero","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Card_Zero-20241119055900-Lambiam-20241119044900","replies":[],"displayName":"Card Zero"},{"timestamp":"20241119120700","author":"Félix An","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Félix_An-20241119120700-Lambiam-20241119044900","replies":[]}]},{"timestamp":"20241119060900","author":"Card Zero","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Card_Zero-20241119060900-Félix_An-20241118114600","replies":[{"timestamp":"20241119120300","author":"Félix An","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Félix_An-20241119120300-Card_Zero-20241119060900","replies":[{"timestamp":"20241124223000","author":"Nil Einne","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Nil_Einne-20241124223000-Félix_An-20241119120300","replies":[]}]}],"displayName":"Card Zero"},{"timestamp":"20241119181700","author":"Shantavira","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Shantavira-20241119181700-Félix_An-20241118114600","replies":[{"timestamp":"20241120065300","author":"Félix An","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Félix_An-20241120065300-Shantavira-20241119181700","replies":[{"timestamp":"20241120183900","author":"JackofOz","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-JackofOz-20241120183900-Félix_An-20241120065300","replies":[],"displayName":"Jack of Oz"},{"timestamp":"20241120232300","author":"Baseball Bugs","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Baseball_Bugs-20241120232300-Félix_An-20241120065300","replies":[]},{"timestamp":"20241124215000","author":"Nil Einne","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Nil_Einne-20241124215000-Félix_An-20241120065300","replies":[]}]}]}]}]}]},{"headingLevel":1,"name":"h-ApricotPine-20241120205600","type":"heading","level":0,"id":"h-November_20-20241120205600","replies":[{"headingLevel":2,"name":"h-ApricotPine-20241120205600","type":"heading","level":0,"id":"h-Static_technology-November_20-20241120205600","replies":[{"timestamp":"20241120205600","author":"ApricotPine","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-ApricotPine-20241120205600-Static_technology","replies":[{"timestamp":"20241120234300","author":"Lambiam","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Lambiam-20241120234300-ApricotPine-20241120205600","replies":[]},{"timestamp":"20241121040900","author":"Card Zero","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Card_Zero-20241121040900-ApricotPine-20241120205600","replies":[],"displayName":"Card Zero"},{"timestamp":"20241124204800","author":"Viriditas","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Viriditas-20241124204800-ApricotPine-20241120205600","replies":[]}]}]}]},{"headingLevel":1,"name":"h-2001:448A:3070:DF97:6CA1:FCBB:A642:E2B2-20241121035700","type":"heading","level":0,"id":"h-November_21-20241121035700","replies":[{"headingLevel":2,"name":"h-2001:448A:3070:DF97:6CA1:FCBB:A642:E2B2-20241121035700","type":"heading","level":0,"id":"h-Integrated_LUFS_calculation-November_21-20241121035700","replies":[{"timestamp":"20241121035700","author":"2001:448A:3070:DF97:6CA1:FCBB:A642:E2B2","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-2001:448A:3070:DF97:6CA1:FCBB:A642:E2B2-20241121035700-Integrated_LUFS_calculation","replies":[{"timestamp":"20241121114600","author":"Philvoids","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Philvoids-20241121114600-2001:448A:3070:DF97:6CA1:FCBB:A642:E2B2-20241121035700","replies":[]}]}]}]},{"headingLevel":1,"name":"h-68.187.174.155-20241122013200","type":"heading","level":0,"id":"h-November_22-20241122013200","replies":[{"headingLevel":2,"name":"h-68.187.174.155-20241122013200","type":"heading","level":0,"id":"h-Arctic_snow_removal-November_22-20241122013200","replies":[{"timestamp":"20241122013200","author":"68.187.174.155","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-68.187.174.155-20241122013200-Arctic_snow_removal","replies":[{"timestamp":"20241122014200","author":"Baseball Bugs","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Baseball_Bugs-20241122014200-68.187.174.155-20241122013200","replies":[{"timestamp":"20241122074400","author":"94.1.211.243","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-94.1.211.243-20241122074400-Baseball_Bugs-20241122014200","replies":[]}]},{"timestamp":"20241122180900","author":"Amble","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Amble-20241122180900-68.187.174.155-20241122013200","replies":[{"timestamp":"20241122182100","author":"Philvoids","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Philvoids-20241122182100-Amble-20241122180900","replies":[]}]},{"timestamp":"20241123221600","author":"Ghirlandajo","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Ghirlandajo-20241123221600-68.187.174.155-20241122013200","replies":[{"timestamp":"20241123221700","author":"Ghirlandajo","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Ghirlandajo-20241123221700-Ghirlandajo-20241123221600","replies":[],"displayName":"Ghirla"}],"displayName":"Ghirla"}]}]}]},{"headingLevel":1,"name":"h-Brandmeister-20241123134400","type":"heading","level":0,"id":"h-November_23-20241123134400","replies":[{"headingLevel":2,"name":"h-Brandmeister-20241123134400","type":"heading","level":0,"id":"h-Odd_snow_traces-November_23-20241123134400","replies":[{"timestamp":"20241123134400","author":"Brandmeister","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Brandmeister-20241123134400-Odd_snow_traces","replies":[{"timestamp":"20241123141100","author":"142.112.149.206","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-142.112.149.206-20241123141100-Brandmeister-20241123134400","replies":[{"timestamp":"20241123161000","author":"Brandmeister","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Brandmeister-20241123161000-142.112.149.206-20241123141100","replies":[]}]}]}]}]},{"headingLevel":1,"name":"h-Viriditas-20241124210200","type":"heading","level":0,"id":"h-November_24-20241124210200","replies":[{"headingLevel":2,"name":"h-Viriditas-20241124210200","type":"heading","level":0,"id":"h-US_clothing_requirements_circa_1914-November_24-20241124210200","replies":[{"timestamp":"20241124210200","author":"Viriditas","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Viriditas-20241124210200-US_clothing_requirements_circa_1914","replies":[{"timestamp":"20241124225500","author":"Alansplodge","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Alansplodge-20241124225500-Viriditas-20241124210200","replies":[]}]}]},{"headingLevel":2,"name":"h-86.130.15.246-20241124215000","type":"heading","level":0,"id":"h-1930s_leukemia_treatment-November_24-20241124215000","replies":[{"timestamp":"20241124215000","author":"86.130.15.246","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-86.130.15.246-20241124215000-1930s_leukemia_treatment","replies":[]}]}]}],"wgPageParseReport":{"discussiontools":{"limitreport-timeusage":"0.043"},"limitreport":{"cputime":"0.214","walltime":"0.284","ppvisitednodes":{"value":541,"limit":1000000},"postexpandincludesize":{"value":12085,"limit":2097152},"templateargumentsize":{"value":414,"limit":2097152},"expansiondepth":{"value":8,"limit":100},"expensivefunctioncount":{"value":2,"limit":500},"unstrip-depth":{"value":0,"limit":20},"unstrip-size":{"value":4463,"limit":5000000},"entityaccesscount":{"value":0,"limit":400},"timingprofile":["100.00% 140.837 1 -total"," 65.56% 92.331 1 Wikipedia:Reference_desk/header"," 36.97% 52.067 1 Wikipedia:Reference_desk/header/leftside"," 30.52% 42.988 1 Template:Short_description"," 26.12% 36.793 1 Template:Shortcut"," 21.85% 30.767 1 Template:Pagetype"," 7.01% 9.878 1 Wikipedia:Reference_desk/header/howtoask"," 3.69% 5.190 1 Template:Yo"," 2.17% 3.055 1 Wikipedia:Reference_desk/header/nav"," 2.02% 2.850 1 Wikipedia:Reference_desk/header/skip"]},"scribunto":{"limitreport-timeusage":{"value":"0.037","limit":"10.000"},"limitreport-memusage":{"value":1264642,"limit":52428800}},"cachereport":{"origin":"mw-api-ext.codfw.main-7556f8b5dd-nnjgb","timestamp":"20241124225556","ttl":864000,"transientcontent":true}}});});</script> </body> </html>