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id="toc-Civility_aside-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-ArbCom_Elections_2016:_Voting_now_open!" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1 vector-toc-list-item-expanded"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#ArbCom_Elections_2016:_Voting_now_open!"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">6</span> <span>ArbCom Elections 2016: Voting now open!</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">1 comment</span> <ul id="toc-ArbCom_Elections_2016:_Voting_now_open!-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Recategorisation" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1 vector-toc-list-item-expanded"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Recategorisation"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">7</span> <span>Recategorisation</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">5 comments</span> <ul id="toc-Recategorisation-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li 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.tmbox{background-color:#2e2505}html.skin-theme-clientpref-night .mw-parser-output .tmbox-speedy{background-color:#310402}}@media screen and (prefers-color-scheme:dark){html.skin-theme-clientpref-os .mw-parser-output .tmbox{background-color:#2e2505}html.skin-theme-clientpref-os .mw-parser-output .tmbox-speedy{background-color:#310402}}body.skin--responsive .mw-parser-output table.tmbox img{max-width:none!important}</style><table class="plainlinks tmbox tmbox-notice" role="presentation"><tbody><tr><td class="mbox-image"><span typeof="mw:File"><span><img alt="" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/2/2a/Replacement_filing_cabinet.svg/40px-Replacement_filing_cabinet.svg.png" decoding="async" width="40" height="40" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/2/2a/Replacement_filing_cabinet.svg/60px-Replacement_filing_cabinet.svg.png 1.5x, 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title="User talk:Nableezy/Archive 37">Archive 37</a></td><td><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Nableezy/Archive_38" title="User talk:Nableezy/Archive 38">Archive 38</a></td><td><span style="font-size:115%;"><a class="mw-selflink selflink">Archive 39</a></span></td><td><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Nableezy/Archive_40" title="User talk:Nableezy/Archive 40">Archive 40</a></td><td><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Nableezy/Archive_41" title="User talk:Nableezy/Archive 41">Archive 41</a></td><td>→</td><td><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Nableezy/Archive_45" title="User talk:Nableezy/Archive 45">Archive 45</a></td></tr></tbody></table> <meta property="mw:PageProp/toc"/> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Ey!" data-mw-thread-id="h-Ey!-2016-10-09T02:22:00.000Z"><span id="Ey.21"></span><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Ey!-2016-10-09T02:22:00.000Z"></span>Ey!<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Ey!-2016-10-09T02:22:00.000Z"></span></h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Monochrome_Monitor-2016-10-09T02:22:00.000Z-Ey!"></span><style data-mw-deduplicate="TemplateStyles:r1256395271">.mw-parser-output .hidden-archive{box-sizing:border-box;border:1px solid #a2a9b1;width:100%;clear:both;text-align:center;padding:1px;margin:0.2em auto 0;font-size:100%}.mw-parser-output .hat-header{padding:0.25em 1em;line-height:1.5em;text-align:center;background-color:#f2dfce;color:inherit}.mw-parser-output .hat-content{border:solid 1px silver;padding:8px;background-color:#fff4f2;color:inherit;text-align:left}@media screen{html.skin-theme-clientpref-night .mw-parser-output .hat-header{background-color:#492b13}html.skin-theme-clientpref-night .mw-parser-output .hat-content{background-color:#391c19}}@media screen and (prefers-color-scheme:dark){html.skin-theme-clientpref-os .mw-parser-output .hat-header{background-color:#492b13}html.skin-theme-clientpref-os .mw-parser-output .hat-content{background-color:#391c19}}</style> <table class="hidden-archive mw-collapsible mw-archivedtalk mw-collapsed"> <tbody><tr> <th class="hat-header">The end </th></tr> <tr> <td style="font-style:italic;">The following discussion has been closed. <span style="color:var(--color-error, red);"><b>Please do not modify it.</b></span> </td></tr> <tr> <td class="hat-content"> <p>Nice title, right? I get your point about Jerusalem. The template is <i>called</i> "cities in the palestinian territories" which is entirely justifiable, BUT the template happens to say "cities <i>administered</i> by the State of Palestine" and to that end it doesn't include jerusalem. Note I didn't remove the category "cities in the palestinian territories". I'm sure that's why you self-reverted, you realized my intentions? Also I find your infobox disturbing. I don't suspect you're referring to the <a href="/wiki/Jewish_Resistance_Movement" title="Jewish Resistance Movement">Jewish Resistance Movement</a> against the colonial Brits?--<a href="/wiki/User:Monochrome_Monitor" title="User:Monochrome Monitor"><small style="font: 13px Courier New">Monochrome</small></a><big>_</big><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Monochrome_Monitor" title="User talk:Monochrome Monitor"><small style="font: 13px Courier New">Monitor</small></a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Nableezy/Archive_39#c-Monochrome_Monitor-2016-10-09T02:22:00.000Z-Ey!" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:22, 9 October 2016 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Monochrome_Monitor-2016-10-09T02:22:00.000Z-Ey!"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Monochrome_Monitor-2016-10-09T02:22:00.000Z-Ey!"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Nableezy-2016-10-09T04:15:00.000Z-Monochrome_Monitor-2016-10-09T02:22:00.000Z"></span>That is indeed why I self-reverted. In the diff on my watchlist I just saw the name of the template, when I saved the page I saw the title on it. Im not sure why that infobox would be disturbing, the UNGA, by a vote of 71-12, <i>affirm[ed] the legitimacy of the struggle of peoples under colonial and alien domination recognized as being entitled to the right of self-determination to restore to themselves that right <b>by any means at their disposal</b></i> (emphasis added), and has repeatedly reaffirmed the right of an occupied people to achieve their liberation <i>by all available means, <b>including armed struggle</b></i> (emphasis added). As far as I am aware, Britain did not hold Palestine under occupation by the time the Jewish Resistance Movement came into existence, but as a mandate from the League of Nations. Worked out pretty well for the Jewish Resistance Movement if you ask me. <small style="border: 1px solid;padding:1px 3px;white-space:nowrap"><b><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Nableezy" title="User talk:Nableezy"><span style="color:#C11B17;">nableezy</span></a></b> - <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Nableezy/Archive_39#c-Nableezy-2016-10-09T04:15:00.000Z-Monochrome_Monitor-2016-10-09T02:22:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">04:15, 9 October 2016 (UTC)</a></small><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Nableezy-2016-10-09T04:15:00.000Z-Monochrome_Monitor-2016-10-09T02:22:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Nableezy-2016-10-09T04:15:00.000Z-Monochrome_Monitor-2016-10-09T02:22:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Monochrome_Monitor-2016-10-09T13:52:00.000Z-Nableezy-2016-10-09T04:15:00.000Z"></span>By that logic the occupation is not an occupation because <a href="/wiki/British_Mandate_for_Palestine_(legal_instrument)" class="mw-redirect" title="British Mandate for Palestine (legal instrument)">the same mandate from the League of Nations</a> made the land a national home for Jewish people. The "united nations" have never been fond of the Jews anyway. For that matter appealing to a not necessarily moral majority defined with the nebulous term "international community", akin to "Free World", makes those with opposing views into pariahs. Are you just talking about killing soldiers outside the green line? Or do you think killing civilians within Israel is "resistance"? When you define things in black and white oppressors vs oppressed you are ipso facto engaging in dehumanization. Most importantly Jews are not an alien nor a colonial presence, they are, along with the Samaritans, the aboriginal people of Palestine.Even if you don't admit that, Jewish rights in Palestine arise as a natural logical consequence of the existence of the Jewish people, which I'm sure you don't deny. To quote Fatah: <i>"<b>Recognizing the Jewish state implies recognition of a Jewish people and recognition of its right to self-determination.</b> Those who assert this right also assert that the territory historically associated with this right of self-determination (i.e., the self-determination unit) is all of Historic Palestine. Therefore, <b>recognition of the Jewish people and their right of self-determination may lend credence to the Jewish people’s claim to all of Historic Palestine.</b>"</i> <a rel="nofollow" class="external autonumber" href="http://www.ajtransparency.com/en/projects/thepalestinepapers/201218238415476.html">[1]</a> Or to take things even further, <i>"If Israel is the homeland of the Jewish people, then <b>the lands that it occupies today (and perhaps more, for there are as yet no borders to this “homeland”) belong to this people by way of right.</b> And if these lands rightfully comprise the Jewish homeland, then <b>the Arab presence there becomes historically aberrant and contingent; the Palestinians effectively become historic interlopers and trespassers—a transient presence on someone else’s national soil... Indeed, it is the heart of the Zionist claim to Palestine: Palestine belongs to the Jews and their right to the land is antecedent and superior to that of the Arabs.</b> This is what Zionism is all about, and what justifies both the Jewish return to the land and the dispossession of its Arab inhabitants. Clearly, this is not the Palestinian Arab narrative, nor can it be. Palestinians do not believe that the historical Jewish presence in and connection to the land entail a superior claim to it. Palestine as our homeland was established in the course of over fifteen hundred years of continuous Arab-Muslim presence; it was only by superior force and colonial machination that we were eventually dispossessed of it. For us to adopt the Zionist narrative would mean that the homes that our forefathers built, the land that they tilled for centuries, and the sanctuaries they built and prayed at were not really ours at all, and that our defense of them was morally flawed and wrongful: we had no right to any of these to begin with... The demand for the Palestinians to recognize Israel as the homeland of the Jewish people has yet another dimension. It places the moral burden of the conflict on the Palestinians, and consequently, not only exonerates Israel from the dubious moral circumstances of its birth but makes the Palestinians the historical transgressors. Indeed, <b>by refusing to accept the Jewish claim to the land, we are to blame for what has befallen us...from this perspective, it is Arab rejection that caused the conflict and not the Zionist transgression against Arab land and rights.</b>"</i> <a rel="nofollow" class="external autonumber" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20120318065759/http://www.palestine-studies.org/journals.aspx?id=11071&jid=1&href=fulltext">[2]</a> (note he says "Arab land", "Arab presence", with no nonsense about Canaanites.) Personally I disagree with the notion that Arab presence is an "aberration", and I think that no one should be dispossessed. If you think this is all about the occupation (of which I am personally opposed to with the obvious exception of "East Jerusalem") and not about Jewish sovereignty in "Arab lands", I advise you to read the first Palestinian National Charter.<a rel="nofollow" class="external autonumber" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20121023030417/http://www.un.int/wcm/content/site/palestine/pid/12363">[3]</a> "Palestine is an Arab homeland bound by strong Arab national ties to the rest of the Arab Countries and which together form the great Arab homeland... This Organization <b>does not exercise any territorial sovereignty over the West Bank in the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan, on the Gaza Strip or in the Himmah Area.</b>" I'm not trying to make you into a Zionist, I'm trying to make you see the inconsistencies in the "Arab Palestinian" narrative. You can have sympathy for their plight and still recognize the existence of the Jewish people and their indigenousness to Palestine.--<a href="/wiki/User:Monochrome_Monitor" title="User:Monochrome Monitor"><small style="font: 13px Courier New">Monochrome</small></a><big>_</big><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Monochrome_Monitor" title="User talk:Monochrome Monitor"><small style="font: 13px Courier New">Monitor</small></a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Nableezy/Archive_39#c-Monochrome_Monitor-2016-10-09T13:52:00.000Z-Nableezy-2016-10-09T04:15:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">13:52, 9 October 2016 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Monochrome_Monitor-2016-10-09T13:52:00.000Z-Nableezy-2016-10-09T04:15:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Monochrome_Monitor-2016-10-09T13:52:00.000Z-Nableezy-2016-10-09T04:15:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Nableezy-2016-10-09T15:38:00.000Z-Monochrome_Monitor-2016-10-09T13:52:00.000Z"></span>wtf does any of that have to do with a statement that I <i>supports the right of all individuals and groups to violently resist military aggression and occupation by other parties</i>? <small style="border: 1px solid;padding:1px 3px;white-space:nowrap"><b><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Nableezy" title="User talk:Nableezy"><span style="color:#C11B17;">nableezy</span></a></b> - <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Nableezy/Archive_39#c-Nableezy-2016-10-09T15:38:00.000Z-Monochrome_Monitor-2016-10-09T13:52:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:38, 9 October 2016 (UTC)</a><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Nableezy-2016-10-09T15:38:00.000Z-Monochrome_Monitor-2016-10-09T13:52:00.000Z"></span></small><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Nableezy-2016-10-09T15:38:00.000Z-Monochrome_Monitor-2016-10-09T13:52:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Nishidani-2016-10-09T14:19:00.000Z-Monochrome_Monitor-2016-10-09T13:52:00.000Z"></span>It's probably pointless exchanging views on this. The above is unhistorical, and just comes out of standard popular ideological tracts. The PLO declarations you cite, like Zionist declarations, have no relevance to the history of the region. They have relevance only to the history of those movements, rthe PLO declarations being declarations of pan-Arabism because that was the only way to secure funding and geostrategic backing. We deal with facts here,MM. The Zionists called it 'colonization' for 20 years, as any student of the literature from Balfour onwards for some decades knows. And if 90% of the population in 1900 was Arab, they, like the small community of Jews who were there, and Samaritans, were indigenous to the area, etc.etc.etc.etc.etc.etc.etc. Editors are not denied the right to their own belief systems and fideistic attachments to whatever. They are obliged to let them yield ground before the historically determined facts, which are established by scholarly works.<a href="/wiki/User:Nishidani" title="User:Nishidani">Nishidani</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Nishidani" title="User talk:Nishidani">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Nableezy/Archive_39#c-Nishidani-2016-10-09T14:19:00.000Z-Monochrome_Monitor-2016-10-09T13:52:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">14:19, 9 October 2016 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Nishidani-2016-10-09T14:19:00.000Z-Monochrome_Monitor-2016-10-09T13:52:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Nishidani-2016-10-09T14:19:00.000Z-Monochrome_Monitor-2016-10-09T13:52:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Nableezy-2016-10-09T15:37:00.000Z-Nishidani-2016-10-09T14:19:00.000Z"></span>It is indeed pointless. <small style="border: 1px solid;padding:1px 3px;white-space:nowrap"><b><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Nableezy" title="User talk:Nableezy"><span style="color:#C11B17;">nableezy</span></a></b> - <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Nableezy/Archive_39#c-Nableezy-2016-10-09T15:37:00.000Z-Nishidani-2016-10-09T14:19:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:37, 9 October 2016 (UTC)</a></small><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Nableezy-2016-10-09T15:37:00.000Z-Nishidani-2016-10-09T14:19:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Nableezy-2016-10-09T15:37:00.000Z-Nishidani-2016-10-09T14:19:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Monochrome_Monitor-2016-10-11T04:47:00.000Z-Nableezy-2016-10-09T15:37:00.000Z"></span>How did I know Nish would get involved? "Colonization", just like "Palestine", had a wholly different connotation back then- no Zionist pioneer denied that the Jews originate in Israel. I do not agree with the "native vs foreigners" "occupier vs occupied" line of thinking- my point is they have framed the debate as one of natives and foreigners, which is not a paradime working in their favor. I showed that Palestinian nationalist sources acknowledge that if Jews exist as a people then they have the right to self-determination in "historic palestine". "And if 90% of the population in 1900 was Arab, they, like the small community of Jews who were there, and Samaritans, were indigenous to the area" that's complete nonsense. Being indigenous does not mean being in a place prior to a certain time, it means having ancestral roots there- the "small community of Jews who were there" are indistinguishable from later arrivals. Samaritans recognize Jews, not Palestinians, as part of the indigenous Israelite community. It's not simply a matter of DNA testing which shows Palestinians have closer ties to Arabia than to the Jews/Samaritans/Druze but it's a matter of culture- the Palestinian culture has ancestral roots in Arabia, not Palestine, while the very ground attests to the antiquity of Jewish culture in the land. Even the great Aristotle mentions the Jews, "[who are called by] the Syrians <i>Judaei</i>, and took their name from the country they inhabit, which is called <i>Judea</i>; but for the name of their city, it is a very awkward one, for they call it <i>Jerusalem</i>." All of this is quite relevant to what you said about resisting <i>alien</i> occupation- the Jews are the furthest thing from alien, and violence against them is not "resistance to colonialism" but terrorism. I embrace historic scholarship, which just so happens to affirm the antiquity of the Jewish people in their homeland. Obviously you have chosen to ignore the history of the Jewish people or else you wouldn't be so vociferously opposed to their right to self-determination.--<a href="/wiki/User:Monochrome_Monitor" title="User:Monochrome Monitor"><small style="font: 13px Courier New">Monochrome</small></a><big>_</big><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Monochrome_Monitor" title="User talk:Monochrome Monitor"><small style="font: 13px Courier New">Monitor</small></a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Nableezy/Archive_39#c-Monochrome_Monitor-2016-10-11T04:47:00.000Z-Nableezy-2016-10-09T15:37:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">04:47, 11 October 2016 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Monochrome_Monitor-2016-10-11T04:47:00.000Z-Nableezy-2016-10-09T15:37:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Monochrome_Monitor-2016-10-11T04:47:00.000Z-Nableezy-2016-10-09T15:37:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Monochrome_Monitor-2016-10-11T04:54:00.000Z-Monochrome_Monitor-2016-10-09T02:22:00.000Z"></span>On second thought you didn't say "alien" occupation, but you're referring to occupation itself. While not all occupations are alike (and not all terrorism is alike) I can understand this reasoning. It's not the characterization of "occupation", but the "alien" that I object to. Personally I'm opposed to violence where it can be avoided- including Israeli violence. You really should quit smoking, if not for you for than for loved ones. It's not as hard as it used to be with gum and such.--<a href="/wiki/User:Monochrome_Monitor" title="User:Monochrome Monitor"><small style="font: 13px Courier New">Monochrome</small></a><big>_</big><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Monochrome_Monitor" title="User talk:Monochrome Monitor"><small style="font: 13px Courier New">Monitor</small></a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Nableezy/Archive_39#c-Monochrome_Monitor-2016-10-11T04:54:00.000Z-Monochrome_Monitor-2016-10-09T02:22:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">04:54, 11 October 2016 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Monochrome_Monitor-2016-10-11T04:54:00.000Z-Monochrome_Monitor-2016-10-09T02:22:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Monochrome_Monitor-2016-10-11T04:54:00.000Z-Monochrome_Monitor-2016-10-09T02:22:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><dl><dd><blockquote><p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Nishidani-2016-10-11T13:47:00.000Z-Monochrome_Monitor-2016-10-11T04:54:00.000Z"></span>That is called textbook ideological reproduction. It is indeed pointless.</p></blockquote></dd> <dd><blockquote><p>Palestinians have closer ties to Arabia than to the Jews/Samaritans/Druze but it's a matter of culture- the Palestinian culture has ancestral roots in Arabia, not Palestine, while the very ground attests to the antiquity of Jewish culture in the land</p></blockquote></dd> <dd><blockquote><p><a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3543766/">The closest genetic neighbors to most Jewish groups were the Palestinians, Israeli Bedouins, and Druze in addition to the Southern Europeans, including Cypriots. The genetic clusters formed by each of these non-Jewish Middle Eastern groups reflect their own histories of endogamy. Their proximity to one another and to European and Syrian Jews suggested a shared genetic history of related Semitic and non-Semitic Mediterranean ancestors who followed different religious and tribal affiliations. Earlier studies of Israeli Jewish, Palestinian and Druze populations made a similar observation by demonstrating the proximity of these two non-Jewish populations to Ashkenazi and Iraqi Jews (Rosenberg et al. 2001; Kopelman et al. 2009).</a> </p></blockquote></dd> <dd><blockquote><p>The majority of fellahin in Western Palestine are unified in their external appearance and in their origin, and in their veins, without a doubt, flows much Jewish blood . .from the Jewish peasants who in the days of the persecutions and terrible oppression had renounced their tradition and their people in order to maintain their attachment and loyalty to the land of the Jews.' <a href="/wiki/David_Ben-Gurion" title="David Ben-Gurion">David Ben-Gurion</a> 1918 </p></blockquote></dd> <dd>Pointless, quite pointless.<a href="/wiki/User:Nishidani" title="User:Nishidani">Nishidani</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Nishidani" title="User talk:Nishidani">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Nableezy/Archive_39#c-Nishidani-2016-10-11T13:47:00.000Z-Monochrome_Monitor-2016-10-11T04:54:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">13:47, 11 October 2016 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Nishidani-2016-10-11T13:47:00.000Z-Monochrome_Monitor-2016-10-11T04:54:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Nishidani-2016-10-11T13:47:00.000Z-Monochrome_Monitor-2016-10-11T04:54:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Monochrome_Monitor-2016-10-14T14:50:00.000Z-Nishidani-2016-10-11T13:47:00.000Z"></span>First off, I've told you at least twice how it makes me feel when you say my words are "pointless". Next I'm not familiar with the textbook you speak of. If you're speaking of the standard zionist rendition of history, I myself criticize "the narrative". (ie, claiming the land was practically deserted before jews came in significant numbers, overlooking that accounts from travelers saying this were touring in a time of severe poverty in the ottoman empire. claiming that palestinians are essentially foreign arabian hordes. claiming that most palestinian refugees fled because their leaders told them to so, when in fact they were fleeing out of fear esp due to rumors of massacres, real and sensational) Thirdly I'm well aware of the jewish genetic relationship to other levantines. Using that argument Druze (from syria) have more of a right to palestine than palestinians, as they are more closely related to jews. No doubt many are descended from jews (and christians)- to a greater extent than the "lost tribes" we champion. (ie beta israel) I was specifically talking about culture- not genetics. I'm merely saying that in the end they assimilated fully into arab/islamic culture, which originates in arabia. I personally cannot find significant contemporary justification in ancient jewish descent as long as they are hostile to jews, deny jewish history in palestine, and claim the land is fundamentally arab- basically taking up the mantle of foreign conquerers. But that's just my view. Anyway my point was primarily that Jews are not aliens in palestine.--<a href="/wiki/User:Monochrome_Monitor" title="User:Monochrome Monitor"><small style="font: 13px Courier New">Monochrome</small></a><big>_</big><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Monochrome_Monitor" title="User talk:Monochrome Monitor"><small style="font: 13px Courier New">Monitor</small></a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Nableezy/Archive_39#c-Monochrome_Monitor-2016-10-14T14:50:00.000Z-Nishidani-2016-10-11T13:47:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">14:50, 14 October 2016 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Monochrome_Monitor-2016-10-14T14:50:00.000Z-Nishidani-2016-10-11T13:47:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Monochrome_Monitor-2016-10-14T14:50:00.000Z-Nishidani-2016-10-11T13:47:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Nishidani-2016-10-14T15:39:00.000Z-Monochrome_Monitor-2016-10-11T04:54:00.000Z"></span>I've been reading this stuff for a half a century. It is absolutely unbelievably how trite, repetitive, commonplace and dull all these themes are: they resist time, thought, research, reality. Take anyone you mention and do a google search of it for theme, and it will go back a century. When I read these things at your age it was new to me, and book after book filled in angles. After a few years of desultory reading, there was nothing new any more: over four decades, I just kept and keep seeing memes mouthed. They've basically disappeared from serious scholarship, but newspapers, agitprop and popular opinion still thrive on them. Nothing peculiar to Zionism. Whwen I did a Russian course, my teachers taught us all the preliminary roundabout formulaic phrases that cluttered the introduction and last pages of anything, newspapers, articles etc. It's just to con the censor. In the Orient, idem: meme reproduction; in the 'Zionist' question, another ideology, meme replication. It's the same closed mental universe. The word 'alien' cogs the dice. Jewish culture privileged 'Jerusalem': rabbis 'eretz israel': Idem Christian bible bashers down to the 20th century. Yawn. Most Christians, and most Jews didn't go round for 2,000 years thinking from Afghanistan to Lemba territory to Iceland, or beyond:'Rats, when can I go home?'. National identitarian obsessionjs like this are silly, as the joke runs:</dd> <dd><blockquote><p>There are six authors: French, English, American, German, Russian and Polish. The Frenchman writes on the love life of the elephant, the Englishman on how to conquer the elephant and the American on how to make bigger and better elephants. The German produces a 10-volume preliminary outline for an introductory essay on the elephant, the Russian writes a metaphysical essay entitled, <i>Does the elephant really exist?</i> and the Pole (the punch line is almost the same) writes on the elephant and the Polish question.In this one, there are six authors: French, English, American, German, Russian and Polish. The Frenchman writes on the love life of the elephant, the Englishman on how to conquer the elephant and the American on how to make bigger and better elephants. The German produces a 10-volume preliminary outline for an introductory essay on the elephant, the Russian writes a metaphysical essay entitled, <i>Does the elephant really exist?</i> and the Pole (the punch line is almost the same) writes on the elephant and the Polish question.(If there was a Jewish seventh, by analogy, he would write an encyclopedia on the elephant and the Jewish/Palestine question.)</p></blockquote></dd> <dd>None of those Poles, French, Germans, Yanks, Jews, Poms, are anything other than a mad caricature of some little cliché about cultural obsessions occasionally met. If I were a German, I'd write haiku, if a Frenchman a lyric on the joys of impotence, if an American, I'd expatiate on the genius of miniaturization. Why? To avoid being self-spitted on a stupid stereotype associated with one of the group labels attached to me, not by my choice.<a href="/wiki/User:Nishidani" title="User:Nishidani">Nishidani</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Nishidani" title="User talk:Nishidani">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Nableezy/Archive_39#c-Nishidani-2016-10-14T15:39:00.000Z-Monochrome_Monitor-2016-10-11T04:54:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:39, 14 October 2016 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Nishidani-2016-10-14T15:39:00.000Z-Monochrome_Monitor-2016-10-11T04:54:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Nishidani-2016-10-14T15:39:00.000Z-Monochrome_Monitor-2016-10-11T04:54:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> </td></tr></tbody></table> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Epson_S." data-mw-thread-id="h-Epson_S.-2016-10-15T09:45:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Epson_S.-2016-10-15T09:45:00.000Z"></span>Epson S.<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Epson_S.-2016-10-15T09:45:00.000Z"></span></h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Perplexed566-2016-10-15T09:45:00.000Z-Epson_S."></span>Thank you for your efforts to identify him as a sock. I've had to deal with his disruptions for some time. </p><p>I did notice that in the last couple of days -- as you were presenting your case -- that another account that hadn't been active in some time popped up, ramped up to 500 edits, and started editing some of the same pages with some of the same aggressive style and POV-pushing, complete with jumping down my throat on my talk page; (Epson had taken to stalking my edits). See the new guy <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/Knowitall369">here</a>. I don't want to make willy-nilly accusations, but it does seem like it's someone gaming the system. How would one go about determining if this is the same editor as Epson? <a href="/wiki/User:Perplexed566" title="User:Perplexed566">[[PPX]]</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Perplexed566" title="User talk:Perplexed566">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Nableezy/Archive_39#c-Perplexed566-2016-10-15T09:45:00.000Z-Epson_S." class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">09:45, 15 October 2016 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Perplexed566-2016-10-15T09:45:00.000Z-Epson_S."></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Perplexed566-2016-10-15T09:45:00.000Z-Epson_S."></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Nableezy-2016-10-15T18:16:00.000Z-Perplexed566-2016-10-15T09:45:00.000Z"></span>Doesnt look like the same person to me. <small style="border: 1px solid;padding:1px 3px;white-space:nowrap"><b><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Nableezy" title="User talk:Nableezy"><span style="color:#C11B17;">nableezy</span></a></b> - <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Nableezy/Archive_39#c-Nableezy-2016-10-15T18:16:00.000Z-Perplexed566-2016-10-15T09:45:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:16, 15 October 2016 (UTC)</a></small><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Nableezy-2016-10-15T18:16:00.000Z-Perplexed566-2016-10-15T09:45:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Nableezy-2016-10-15T18:16:00.000Z-Perplexed566-2016-10-15T09:45:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Perplexed566-2016-10-16T18:37:00.000Z-Nableezy-2016-10-15T18:16:00.000Z"></span>Thanks.<a href="/wiki/User:Perplexed566" title="User:Perplexed566">[[PPX]]</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Perplexed566" title="User talk:Perplexed566">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Nableezy/Archive_39#c-Perplexed566-2016-10-16T18:37:00.000Z-Nableezy-2016-10-15T18:16:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:37, 16 October 2016 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Perplexed566-2016-10-16T18:37:00.000Z-Nableezy-2016-10-15T18:16:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Perplexed566-2016-10-16T18:37:00.000Z-Nableezy-2016-10-15T18:16:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="About_E.M._Gregory" data-mw-thread-id="h-About_E.M._Gregory-2016-10-22T22:05:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-About_E.M._Gregory-2016-10-22T22:05:00.000Z"></span>About E.M. Gregory<span data-mw-comment-end="h-About_E.M._Gregory-2016-10-22T22:05:00.000Z"></span></h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Parsley_Man-2016-10-22T22:05:00.000Z-About_E.M._Gregory"></span>I think you should report him to <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:ANI" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:ANI">WP:ANI</a>. I've noticed that he has had a history of <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:BLUDGEON" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:BLUDGEON">WP:BLUDGEON</a> behavior during AfDs every time someone posts an opposing opinion, which I'm sure you're aware of to some degree, considering you've been a major player at <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/2016_Ramadan_attacks" title="Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/2016 Ramadan attacks">Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/2016 Ramadan attacks</a>. I wish I could do that myself, but last time I did, he managed to convince the admins I was stalking him and I could get indeffed if I report him again. <a href="/wiki/User:Parsley_Man" title="User:Parsley Man">Parsley Man</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Parsley_Man" title="User talk:Parsley Man">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Nableezy/Archive_39#c-Parsley_Man-2016-10-22T22:05:00.000Z-About_E.M._Gregory" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:05, 22 October 2016 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Parsley_Man-2016-10-22T22:05:00.000Z-About_E.M._Gregory"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Parsley_Man-2016-10-22T22:05:00.000Z-About_E.M._Gregory"></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Deletion_of_Bill_Clinton_adds" data-mw-thread-id="h-Deletion_of_Bill_Clinton_adds-2016-11-08T22:27:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Deletion_of_Bill_Clinton_adds-2016-11-08T22:27:00.000Z"></span>Deletion of Bill Clinton adds<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Deletion_of_Bill_Clinton_adds-2016-11-08T22:27:00.000Z"></span></h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Hipgnostic-2016-11-08T22:27:00.000Z-Deletion_of_Bill_Clinton_adds"></span>Fair enough, will wait for that to happen. <a href="/wiki/User:Hipgnostic" title="User:Hipgnostic">Hipgnostic</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Hipgnostic" title="User talk:Hipgnostic">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Nableezy/Archive_39#c-Hipgnostic-2016-11-08T22:27:00.000Z-Deletion_of_Bill_Clinton_adds" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:27, 8 November 2016 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Hipgnostic-2016-11-08T22:27:00.000Z-Deletion_of_Bill_Clinton_adds"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Hipgnostic-2016-11-08T22:27:00.000Z-Deletion_of_Bill_Clinton_adds"></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Civility_aside" data-mw-thread-id="h-Civility_aside-2016-11-15T01:34:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Civility_aside-2016-11-15T01:34:00.000Z"></span>Civility aside<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Civility_aside-2016-11-15T01:34:00.000Z"></span></h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Bolter21-2016-11-15T01:34:00.000Z-Civility_aside"></span>I thought about what you wrote to Debresser: "And for somebody who has repeatedly made complaints about civility, your dig is a bit hypocritical." </p><p>I had to get out of bed, pick my phone and write it to you. </p><p>Please avoid those remarks. Be "professional" and simply ignore behaviors you deem as uncivil or hypocritical and focus your words on your interest: getting an English book citation. No reason to start a war for that. </p><p>Don't wait for your "adversary's" next unlawfull move to then rush to some noticeboard, as he might"ve done with Huldra, according to your response. </p><p>I am 18 years old with high school education, so I don't have the guts the tell older people with BDs and PhDs to "grow up" and "be mature", as it would probably boomerang back at my face and might make me lose some people's respect. </p><p>So I'll give you my teacher's advice at sixth grade and: be mature and ignore other people's bad behaviors. If you get mad [or in your case, have a bad atmosphere] you punish your self for other people's actions. </p><p>With Debresser's case, it seems like stubborness and frustration over reverts and the fact he is facing three agenda-allied editors against his good faith. The best you can do is not to tell him "by the way you are uncivil" and mention a word that can be a casus belli to war: "hypocrite". </p><p>And I hate to take sides or sound like I am taking sides, especially when me and Debresser share a blue ID, but I had to tell you this because I fear another wikiwar might start in the next hours, though Debresser is probably in bed right now, if he lives in Israel. </p><p>Not patronizing--<a href="/wiki/User:Bolter21" title="User:Bolter21"><b>Bolter21</b></a> <small><i>(<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Bolter21" title="User talk:Bolter21">talk to me</a>)</i></small> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Nableezy/Archive_39#c-Bolter21-2016-11-15T01:34:00.000Z-Civility_aside" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:34, 15 November 2016 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Bolter21-2016-11-15T01:34:00.000Z-Civility_aside"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Bolter21-2016-11-15T01:34:00.000Z-Civility_aside"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Nableezy-2016-11-15T16:15:00.000Z-Bolter21-2016-11-15T01:34:00.000Z"></span>I have a thing for people who cry about this and that and then do this and that. So, no, I dont just ignore it. If Debresser would like to stop bringing people to AE because he thinks they were condescending to him then he shouldnt be straight up uncivil to others. And when he is I will call him out on it. And re my response at Huldra's page, I was asking him to report it because he would be blocked. The absurdity of violating the 1RR and then threatening others with it is too much for me to bear. I have a low tolerance for hypocrisy, and there were two examples there. So, sorry, but I dont see my attitude or responses to that changing. <small style="border: 1px solid;padding:1px 3px;white-space:nowrap"><b><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Nableezy" title="User talk:Nableezy"><span style="color:#C11B17;">nableezy</span></a></b> - <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Nableezy/Archive_39#c-Nableezy-2016-11-15T16:15:00.000Z-Bolter21-2016-11-15T01:34:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:15, 15 November 2016 (UTC)</a></small><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Nableezy-2016-11-15T16:15:00.000Z-Bolter21-2016-11-15T01:34:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Nableezy-2016-11-15T16:15:00.000Z-Bolter21-2016-11-15T01:34:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Bolter21-2016-11-15T17:49:00.000Z-Nableezy-2016-11-15T16:15:00.000Z"></span>Hypocracy is not a crime. If Debresser will go to WP:AE for things that will boomerang back at his face, according to you, so let it happen. You should have two options, either to ignore, or to report him. If you are willing to do neither, there is no function to calling him out, other than bad atmosphere. Do you want Debresser blocked? Report him. But if that is not the case, there is no point in calling him out on an article's talkpage. I think that your only userbox in your userpage is worse than whatever Debresser might"ve said to you or to other people. Will I change you? No. Will I get you banned? No. Then there is no function for me to criticize your userbox. But maybe at least, I can convince you to avoid calling people out in article's talkpages and I care to say it to you mainly because it does not constitue any kind of violation of Wikipedia's laws and it wouldn't matter to me, if there were less WP:AE complaints in the I/P topic area and the majority of them do not concern Debresser. Peace.--<a href="/wiki/User:Bolter21" title="User:Bolter21"><b>Bolter21</b></a> <small><i>(<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Bolter21" title="User talk:Bolter21">talk to me</a>)</i></small> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Nableezy/Archive_39#c-Bolter21-2016-11-15T17:49:00.000Z-Nableezy-2016-11-15T16:15:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:49, 15 November 2016 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Bolter21-2016-11-15T17:49:00.000Z-Nableezy-2016-11-15T16:15:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Bolter21-2016-11-15T17:49:00.000Z-Nableezy-2016-11-15T16:15:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Nableezy-2016-11-15T18:19:00.000Z-Bolter21-2016-11-15T17:49:00.000Z"></span>I did not say it was a crime. Can you convince me? Probably not. Look, you seem to be a fine young man with a genuine interest in writing factual, neutral, well sourced articles, and I applaud you for that. But your concern here, is in my view, misplaced. Debresser has repeatedly called others uncivil and sought sanctions against them. Somebody who feels that being uncivil is worth an AE report should not be saying such things as lack of mental faculties regarding other people. Now I dont actually give a shit if somebody insults me. I think Ive brought a personal attack to a noticeboard once, and that was when somebody said I <i>advocated for the destruction of every Jew</i> because I replaced a dead link to a report from the Office of the Mayor of London. So I have a fairly high tolerance for such things, but I dont when somebody who has sought sanctions against who I think to be one of the best people around here because there were "uncivil" then acts in the same manner. As far as the userbox, funnily enough banning me over it, or deleting my user page over, has in fact been tried. The question on whether or not it is a valid use of userspace is settled, and Im still kinda dumbfounded when somebody says it is offensive. I get some people dont like the colors for obvious reasons, but the internet is a big place, and not everybody is a Zionist. <small style="border: 1px solid;padding:1px 3px;white-space:nowrap"><b><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Nableezy" title="User talk:Nableezy"><span style="color:#C11B17;">nableezy</span></a></b> - <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Nableezy/Archive_39#c-Nableezy-2016-11-15T18:19:00.000Z-Bolter21-2016-11-15T17:49:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:19, 15 November 2016 (UTC)</a></small><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Nableezy-2016-11-15T18:19:00.000Z-Bolter21-2016-11-15T17:49:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Nableezy-2016-11-15T18:19:00.000Z-Bolter21-2016-11-15T17:49:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Bolter21-2016-11-15T20:02:00.000Z-Nableezy-2016-11-15T18:19:00.000Z"></span>I don't have a serious problem with people or organizations who are "anti-Zionist", especially when they are honest and fair. I have problem with people and organizations who physically oppose Zionism, especially when they say they want to Jews to gather in Israel so they wouldn't have to hunt them down globally.</dd> <dd>Anyway I said what I had to say, and it was said out of a fear that another wikiwar would start yesterday at 3:00AM and not in order to try to change you approach. So now as nothing happened, I assume there is no need to talk about it too much. Take care.--<a href="/wiki/User:Bolter21" title="User:Bolter21"><b>Bolter21</b></a> <small><i>(<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Bolter21" title="User talk:Bolter21">talk to me</a>)</i></small> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Nableezy/Archive_39#c-Bolter21-2016-11-15T20:02:00.000Z-Nableezy-2016-11-15T18:19:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:02, 15 November 2016 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Bolter21-2016-11-15T20:02:00.000Z-Nableezy-2016-11-15T18:19:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Bolter21-2016-11-15T20:02:00.000Z-Nableezy-2016-11-15T18:19:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Huldra-2016-11-15T20:33:00.000Z-Bolter21-2016-11-15T20:02:00.000Z"></span>Yeah, well, the "If they [the Jews] all gather in Israel, it will save us the trouble of going after them worldwide" -quote has often been attributed to <a href="/wiki/Hassan_Nasrallah" title="Hassan Nasrallah">Hassan Nasrallah</a>, but is (most likely) a hoax. But I agree with you about civility ;) <a href="/wiki/User:Huldra" title="User:Huldra">Huldra</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Huldra" title="User talk:Huldra">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Nableezy/Archive_39#c-Huldra-2016-11-15T20:33:00.000Z-Bolter21-2016-11-15T20:02:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:33, 15 November 2016 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Huldra-2016-11-15T20:33:00.000Z-Bolter21-2016-11-15T20:02:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Huldra-2016-11-15T20:33:00.000Z-Bolter21-2016-11-15T20:02:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Bolter21-2016-11-15T21:22:00.000Z-Huldra-2016-11-15T20:33:00.000Z"></span>Whether he said that or not, what bothers me more is the bag of explosive that some 5 residents of Ghajar were given by Hezbollah and lost near Afula.--<a href="/wiki/User:Bolter21" title="User:Bolter21"><b>Bolter21</b></a> <small><i>(<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Bolter21" title="User talk:Bolter21">talk to me</a>)</i></small> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Nableezy/Archive_39#c-Bolter21-2016-11-15T21:22:00.000Z-Huldra-2016-11-15T20:33:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:22, 15 November 2016 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Bolter21-2016-11-15T21:22:00.000Z-Huldra-2016-11-15T20:33:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Bolter21-2016-11-15T21:22:00.000Z-Huldra-2016-11-15T20:33:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Nishidani-2016-11-16T17:20:00.000Z-Nableezy-2016-11-15T16:15:00.000Z"></span>Well bolter, watch your Christian Zionists in the Republican party, many of them anti-Semites considering the concentration of Jews in Israel a prelude to the hoped-for apocalypse, and <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="http://forward.com/news/354530/why-these-jewish-mystics-think-god-helped-trump-win/?attribution=home-hero-item-text-3">compare them to these guys in Israel</a>. I don't think Hezbollah (or Hamas for that matter) pose any threat to Israel compared to these kinds of friends. They tend to respect strategic 'rationality', and their worse behavior is no worse than that of their enemies.<a href="/wiki/User:Nishidani" title="User:Nishidani">Nishidani</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Nishidani" title="User talk:Nishidani">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Nableezy/Archive_39#c-Nishidani-2016-11-16T17:20:00.000Z-Nableezy-2016-11-15T16:15:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:20, 16 November 2016 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Nishidani-2016-11-16T17:20:00.000Z-Nableezy-2016-11-15T16:15:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Nishidani-2016-11-16T17:20:00.000Z-Nableezy-2016-11-15T16:15:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Bolter21-2016-11-17T22:59:00.000Z-Nishidani-2016-11-16T17:20:00.000Z"></span>The biggest threat to Israels comes from <a href="/wiki/Naftali_Bennett" title="Naftali Bennett">this guy</a>.--<a href="/wiki/User:Bolter21" title="User:Bolter21"><b>Bolter21</b></a> <small><i>(<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Bolter21" title="User talk:Bolter21">talk to me</a>)</i></small> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Nableezy/Archive_39#c-Bolter21-2016-11-17T22:59:00.000Z-Nishidani-2016-11-16T17:20:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:59, 17 November 2016 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Bolter21-2016-11-17T22:59:00.000Z-Nishidani-2016-11-16T17:20:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Bolter21-2016-11-17T22:59:00.000Z-Nishidani-2016-11-16T17:20:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="ArbCom_Elections_2016:_Voting_now_open!" data-mw-thread-id="h-ArbCom_Elections_2016:_Voting_now_open!-2016-11-21T22:08:00.000Z"><span id="ArbCom_Elections_2016:_Voting_now_open.21"></span><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-ArbCom_Elections_2016:_Voting_now_open!-2016-11-21T22:08:00.000Z"></span><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:ACE2016" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:ACE2016">ArbCom Elections 2016</a>: Voting now open!<span data-mw-comment-end="h-ArbCom_Elections_2016:_Voting_now_open!-2016-11-21T22:08:00.000Z"></span></h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-MediaWiki_message_delivery-2016-11-21T22:08:00.000Z-ArbCom_Elections_2016:_Voting_now_open!"></span><style data-mw-deduplicate="TemplateStyles:r1256334245">.mw-parser-output .ivmbox{margin-bottom:1em;border:1px solid var(--border-color-base,#a2a9b1);background-color:var(--background-color-warning-subtle,#fdf2d5);padding:0.5em;display:flex;align-items:center}@media screen{html.skin-theme-clientpref-night .mw-parser-output .ivmbox[style*="background"]{background-color:var(--background-color-warning-subtle,ivory)!important;color:inherit}}@media screen and (prefers-color-scheme:dark){html.skin-theme-clientpref-os .mw-parser-output .ivmbox[style*="background"]{background-color:var(--background-color-warning-subtle,ivory)!important;color:inherit}}.mw-parser-output .ivmbox-image{padding-left:1px;padding-right:0.5em;max-width:100px;flex:1 0 25px}.mw-parser-output .ivmbox-text{padding:0.5em 0}.mw-parser-output .ivmbox-text>:first-child{margin-top:0}.mw-parser-output .ivmbox-text>:last-child{margin-bottom:0}</style><div class="ivmbox" style=""> <div class="ivmbox-image" style="flex-basis: 40px"><span typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Scale_of_justice_2.svg" class="mw-file-description"><img src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/0e/Scale_of_justice_2.svg/40px-Scale_of_justice_2.svg.png" decoding="async" width="40" height="41" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/0e/Scale_of_justice_2.svg/60px-Scale_of_justice_2.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/0e/Scale_of_justice_2.svg/80px-Scale_of_justice_2.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="204" data-file-height="208"/></a></span></div> <div class="ivmbox-text"> <p>Hello, Nableezy. Voting in the <b><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:ACE2016" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:ACE2016">2016 Arbitration Committee elections</a></b> is open from Monday, 00:00, 21 November through Sunday, 23:59, 4 December to all unblocked users who have registered an account before Wednesday, 00:00, 28 October 2016 and have made at least 150 mainspace edits before Sunday, 00:00, 1 November 2016. </p><p>The <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:ARBCOM" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:ARBCOM">Arbitration Committee</a> is the panel of editors responsible for conducting the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration">Wikipedia arbitration process</a>. It has the authority to impose binding solutions to disputes between editors, primarily for serious conduct disputes the community has been unable to resolve. This includes the authority to impose <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:BAN" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:BAN">site bans</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:TBAN" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:TBAN">topic bans</a>, editing restrictions, and other measures needed to maintain our editing environment. The <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Policy" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Policy">arbitration policy</a> describes the Committee's roles and responsibilities in greater detail. </p><p>If you wish to participate in the 2016 election, please review <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration_Committee_Elections_December_2016/Candidates" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration Committee Elections December 2016/Candidates">the candidates' statements</a> and submit your choices on <b><a href="/wiki/Special:SecurePoll/vote/399" title="Special:SecurePoll/vote/399">the voting page</a></b>. <a href="/wiki/User:MediaWiki_message_delivery" title="User:MediaWiki message delivery">MediaWiki message delivery</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:MediaWiki_message_delivery" title="User talk:MediaWiki message delivery">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Nableezy/Archive_39#c-MediaWiki_message_delivery-2016-11-21T22:08:00.000Z-ArbCom_Elections_2016:_Voting_now_open!" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:08, 21 November 2016 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-MediaWiki_message_delivery-2016-11-21T22:08:00.000Z-ArbCom_Elections_2016:_Voting_now_open!"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-MediaWiki_message_delivery-2016-11-21T22:08:00.000Z-ArbCom_Elections_2016:_Voting_now_open!"></span> </p> </div> </div> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Recategorisation" data-mw-thread-id="h-Recategorisation-2016-11-24T17:36:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Recategorisation-2016-11-24T17:36:00.000Z"></span>Recategorisation<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Recategorisation-2016-11-24T17:36:00.000Z"></span></h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Number_57-2016-11-24T17:36:00.000Z-Recategorisation"></span>Could you stop your recategorisation and start a discussion somewhere (your edit to Nofei Prat appeared on my watchlist). I'm not really fussed either way, but my understanding is that the "XXXX establishments in Fooland" should refer to the authority overseeing an area at the relevant time, so "Palestinian territories" only becomes relevant from 1994 onwards – prior to that it was either <a href="/wiki/Category:Establishments_in_the_Israeli_Military_Governorate_by_year" title="Category:Establishments in the Israeli Military Governorate by year">Israeli Military Governorate by year</a> or <a href="/wiki/Category:Establishments_in_the_Israeli_Civil_Administration_area_by_year" title="Category:Establishments in the Israeli Civil Administration area by year">Israeli Civil Administration area by year</a>. Plus the former is used to cover both the Golan and the Palestinian territories until the end of the 1970s. </p><p>This needs discussion before wholescale changes are issued (and yes, it appears someone changed some of these categories, but the majority appear to have been stable for some time now). Your best bet is to go through a proper CfD and invite participation from the relevant project members. Cheers, <a href="/wiki/User:Number_57" title="User:Number 57"><span style="color:orange;">Number</span></a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Number_57" title="User talk:Number 57"><span style="color:green;">5</span></a><a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Number_57" title="Special:Contributions/Number 57"><span style="color:blue;">7</span></a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Nableezy/Archive_39#c-Number_57-2016-11-24T17:36:00.000Z-Recategorisation" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:36, 24 November 2016 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Number_57-2016-11-24T17:36:00.000Z-Recategorisation"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Number_57-2016-11-24T17:36:00.000Z-Recategorisation"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Nableezy-2016-11-24T17:40:00.000Z-Number_57-2016-11-24T17:36:00.000Z"></span>It was changed without discussion to begin with based on it being anachronistic where it very clearly is not. And by the method above, where it is authority overseeing the area, we would now have what for a 1997 establishment in the Golan? established in Israel? Because Israel doesnt claim the Golan as being in any military or civil administration besides the state itself. <small style="border: 1px solid;padding:1px 3px;white-space:nowrap"><b><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Nableezy" title="User talk:Nableezy"><span style="color:#C11B17;">nableezy</span></a></b> - <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Nableezy/Archive_39#c-Nableezy-2016-11-24T17:40:00.000Z-Number_57-2016-11-24T17:36:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:40, 24 November 2016 (UTC)</a></small><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Nableezy-2016-11-24T17:40:00.000Z-Number_57-2016-11-24T17:36:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Nableezy-2016-11-24T17:40:00.000Z-Number_57-2016-11-24T17:36:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Number_57-2016-11-24T17:42:00.000Z-Nableezy-2016-11-24T17:40:00.000Z"></span>Yes, but improper behaviour by another editor in the past doesn't excuse it by you now. And I think it's an issue that actually needs proper discussion. No idea about post-annexation Golan, that's probably a whole other topic for discussion. <a href="/wiki/User:Number_57" title="User:Number 57"><span style="color:orange;">Number</span></a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Number_57" title="User talk:Number 57"><span style="color:green;">5</span></a><a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Number_57" title="Special:Contributions/Number 57"><span style="color:blue;">7</span></a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Nableezy/Archive_39#c-Number_57-2016-11-24T17:42:00.000Z-Nableezy-2016-11-24T17:40:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:42, 24 November 2016 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Number_57-2016-11-24T17:42:00.000Z-Nableezy-2016-11-24T17:40:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Number_57-2016-11-24T17:42:00.000Z-Nableezy-2016-11-24T17:40:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Nableezy-2016-11-24T17:44:00.000Z-Number_57-2016-11-24T17:42:00.000Z"></span>But the original improper behavior has the impact of creating a new status quo that the inevitable "no consensus" discussion defaults to. Ive stopped though, Ill try to start something after Thanksgiving. <small style="border: 1px solid;padding:1px 3px;white-space:nowrap"><b><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Nableezy" title="User talk:Nableezy"><span style="color:#C11B17;">nableezy</span></a></b> - <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Nableezy/Archive_39#c-Nableezy-2016-11-24T17:44:00.000Z-Number_57-2016-11-24T17:42:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:44, 24 November 2016 (UTC)</a></small><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Nableezy-2016-11-24T17:44:00.000Z-Number_57-2016-11-24T17:42:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Nableezy-2016-11-24T17:44:00.000Z-Number_57-2016-11-24T17:42:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Number_57-2016-11-24T17:46:00.000Z-Nableezy-2016-11-24T17:44:00.000Z"></span>Speaking from experience, the admin closing the discussion will take into account any previous improper moves and, if the new discussion ends in no consensus, should restore the original arrangements. Cheers, <a href="/wiki/User:Number_57" title="User:Number 57"><span style="color:orange;">Number</span></a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Number_57" title="User talk:Number 57"><span style="color:green;">5</span></a><a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Number_57" title="Special:Contributions/Number 57"><span style="color:blue;">7</span></a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Nableezy/Archive_39#c-Number_57-2016-11-24T17:46:00.000Z-Nableezy-2016-11-24T17:44:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:46, 24 November 2016 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Number_57-2016-11-24T17:46:00.000Z-Nableezy-2016-11-24T17:44:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Number_57-2016-11-24T17:46:00.000Z-Nableezy-2016-11-24T17:44:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="WP:AE#Kamel_Tebaast" data-mw-thread-id="h-WP:AE#Kamel_Tebaast-2016-12-08T18:58:00.000Z"><span id="WP:AE.23Kamel_Tebaast"></span><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-WP:AE#Kamel_Tebaast-2016-12-08T18:58:00.000Z"></span><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:AE#Kamel_Tebaast" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:AE">WP:AE#Kamel Tebaast</a><span data-mw-comment-end="h-WP:AE#Kamel_Tebaast-2016-12-08T18:58:00.000Z"></span></h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-EdJohnston-2016-12-08T18:58:00.000Z-WP:AE#Kamel_Tebaast"></span>Judging from all the comments, it looks like this one might be closed with no action, as a slip-up that wasn't very important. In your section you said "the more substantive complaint requires an email to the arbitration committee for privacy reasons". Are you able to say anything here about the nature of your more substantive complaint? Thanks, <a href="/wiki/User:EdJohnston" title="User:EdJohnston">EdJohnston</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:EdJohnston" title="User talk:EdJohnston">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Nableezy/Archive_39#c-EdJohnston-2016-12-08T18:58:00.000Z-WP:AE#Kamel_Tebaast" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:58, 8 December 2016 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-EdJohnston-2016-12-08T18:58:00.000Z-WP:AE#Kamel_Tebaast"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-EdJohnston-2016-12-08T18:58:00.000Z-WP:AE#Kamel_Tebaast"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Nableezy-2016-12-08T23:38:00.000Z-EdJohnston-2016-12-08T18:58:00.000Z"></span>I'm on a business trip right now, I'll send you an email tomorrow if that's all right with you. <small style="border: 1px solid;padding:1px 3px;white-space:nowrap"><b><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Nableezy" title="User talk:Nableezy"><span style="color:#C11B17;">nableezy</span></a></b> - <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Nableezy/Archive_39#c-Nableezy-2016-12-08T23:38:00.000Z-EdJohnston-2016-12-08T18:58:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:38, 8 December 2016 (UTC)</a></small><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Nableezy-2016-12-08T23:38:00.000Z-EdJohnston-2016-12-08T18:58:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Nableezy-2016-12-08T23:38:00.000Z-EdJohnston-2016-12-08T18:58:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Nableezy-2016-12-09T22:29:00.000Z-Nableezy-2016-12-08T23:38:00.000Z"></span>Ed, I just sent the email to Lankiviel as that just seemed a better idea as he has oversight. <small style="border: 1px solid;padding:1px 3px;white-space:nowrap"><b><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Nableezy" title="User talk:Nableezy"><span style="color:#C11B17;">nableezy</span></a></b> - <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Nableezy/Archive_39#c-Nableezy-2016-12-09T22:29:00.000Z-Nableezy-2016-12-08T23:38:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:29, 9 December 2016 (UTC)</a><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Nableezy-2016-12-09T22:29:00.000Z-Nableezy-2016-12-08T23:38:00.000Z"></span></small><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Nableezy-2016-12-09T22:29:00.000Z-Nableezy-2016-12-08T23:38:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Editor_of_the_Week_seeking_nominations_(and_a_new_facilitator)" data-mw-thread-id="h-Editor_of_the_Week_seeking_nominations_(and_a_new_facilitator)-2016-12-30T05:19:00.000Z"><span id="Editor_of_the_Week_seeking_nominations_.28and_a_new_facilitator.29"></span><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Editor_of_the_Week_seeking_nominations_(and_a_new_facilitator)-2016-12-30T05:19:00.000Z"></span><i>Editor of the Week</i> seeking nominations (and a new facilitator)<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Editor_of_the_Week_seeking_nominations_(and_a_new_facilitator)-2016-12-30T05:19:00.000Z"></span></h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-MediaWiki_message_delivery-2016-12-30T05:19:00.000Z-Editor_of_the_Week_seeking_nominations_(and_a_new_facilitator)"></span>The <i><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Editor_Retention/Editor_of_the_Week" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Editor Retention/Editor of the Week">Editor of the Week</a></i> initiative has been recognizing editors since 2013 for their hard work and dedication. Editing Wikipedia can be disheartening and tedious at times; the weekly <i>Editor of the Week</i> award lets its recipients know that their positive behaviour and collaborative spirit is appreciated. The <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Editor_Retention/Editor_of_the_Week/Recipient_response" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Editor Retention/Editor of the Week/Recipient response">response from the honorees</a> has been enthusiastic and thankful. </p><p>The list of nominees is running short, and so new nominations are needed for consideration. Have you come across someone in your editing circle who deserves a pat on the back for improving article prose regularly, making it easier to understand? Or perhaps someone has stepped in to mediate a contentious dispute, and did an excellent job. Do you know someone who hasn't received many accolades and is deserving of greater renown? Is there an editor who does lots of little tasks well, such as cleaning up citations? </p><p>Please help us thank editors who display sustained patterns of excellence, working tirelessly in the background out of the spotlight, by <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Editor_Retention/Editor_of_the_Week/Nominations" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Editor Retention/Editor of the Week/Nominations">submitting your nomination for <i>Editor of the Week</i></a> today! </p><p><small>In addition, the WikiProject is seeking a new facilitator/coordinator to handle the logistics of the award. Please contact <span class="plainlinks"><a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:L235">L235</a></span> if you are interested in helping with the logistics of running the award in any capacity. Remove your name from <a href="/wiki/User:Buster7/WER_Nomination_mass_mailing" title="User:Buster7/WER Nomination mass mailing">here</a> to unsubscribe from further EotW-related messages. </small> Thanks, <b><a href="/wiki/User:L235" title="User:L235">Kevin</a></b> (<small>aka</small> <a href="/wiki/User:L235" title="User:L235">L235</a> <b>·</b> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:L235#top" title="User talk:L235">t</a> <b>·</b> <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/L235" title="Special:Contributions/L235">c</a>) via <a href="/wiki/User:MediaWiki_message_delivery" title="User:MediaWiki message delivery">MediaWiki message delivery</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:MediaWiki_message_delivery" title="User talk:MediaWiki message delivery">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Nableezy/Archive_39#c-MediaWiki_message_delivery-2016-12-30T05:19:00.000Z-Editor_of_the_Week_seeking_nominations_(and_a_new_facilitator)" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">05:19, 30 December 2016 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-MediaWiki_message_delivery-2016-12-30T05:19:00.000Z-Editor_of_the_Week_seeking_nominations_(and_a_new_facilitator)"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-MediaWiki_message_delivery-2016-12-30T05:19:00.000Z-Editor_of_the_Week_seeking_nominations_(and_a_new_facilitator)"></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Hello:_request_for_feedback_on_proposal_for_"Palestine-Israel_conflict"_article" data-mw-thread-id="h-Hello:_request_for_feedback_on_proposal_for_"Palestine-Israel_conflict"_article-2017-04-20T15:36:00.000Z"><span id="Hello:_request_for_feedback_on_proposal_for_.22Palestine-Israel_conflict.22_article"></span><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Hello:_request_for_feedback_on_proposal_for_"Palestine-Israel_conflict"_article-2017-04-20T15:36:00.000Z"></span>Hello: request for feedback on proposal for "Palestine-Israel conflict" article<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Hello:_request_for_feedback_on_proposal_for_"Palestine-Israel_conflict"_article-2017-04-20T15:36:00.000Z"></span></h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Sinsearach-2017-04-20T15:36:00.000Z-Hello:_request_for_feedback_on_proposal_for_"Palestine-Israel_conflict"_article"></span>I noticed you are a relatively frequent editor of that article and so..... since I am very new here to "serious" contributing on WP and so rather than just try to go and create what I propose and then submit it; I instead wish for feedback on how substantive and possibly useful what I suggest might be, here is what I am thinking: <a class="external free" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Israeli%E2%80%93Palestinian_conflict#Hello.2C_new_here.2C_and_I_perceive_a_GRAVE_.28.26_not_even_mentioned_offhand.29_total-omission_of_the_possible_actual_ancient_root_of_this_conflict">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Israeli%E2%80%93Palestinian_conflict#Hello.2C_new_here.2C_and_I_perceive_a_GRAVE_.28.26_not_even_mentioned_offhand.29_total-omission_of_the_possible_actual_ancient_root_of_this_conflict</a> </p><p>Yes I now realize the word "grave" is too much. Tell me what you think. Thank you for time and attention. <a href="/wiki/User:Sinsearach" title="User:Sinsearach">Sinsearach</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Sinsearach" title="User talk:Sinsearach">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Nableezy/Archive_39#c-Sinsearach-2017-04-20T15:36:00.000Z-Hello:_request_for_feedback_on_proposal_for_"Palestine-Israel_conflict"_article" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:36, 20 April 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Sinsearach-2017-04-20T15:36:00.000Z-Hello:_request_for_feedback_on_proposal_for_"Palestine-Israel_conflict"_article"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Sinsearach-2017-04-20T15:36:00.000Z-Hello:_request_for_feedback_on_proposal_for_"Palestine-Israel_conflict"_article"></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Need_sources?" data-mw-thread-id="h-Need_sources?-2017-06-09T03:16:00.000Z"><span id="Need_sources.3F"></span><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Need_sources?-2017-06-09T03:16:00.000Z"></span>Need sources?<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Need_sources?-2017-06-09T03:16:00.000Z"></span></h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-BU_Rob13-2017-06-09T03:16:00.000Z-Need_sources?"></span>I noticed that you're waiting on approval for access to JSTOR at the Wikipedia Library. JSTOR currently has a waitlist due to lack of available accounts. In the meantime, the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:RX" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:RX">Resource Exchange</a> can help! We connect content creators with reliable sources. If you need a specific article or passage from a book that you don't have access to, drop by and leave a request. We're happy to help you access paywalled and print sources to the extent allowable by copyright law. Please let me know if you have any questions. ~ <a href="/wiki/User:BU_Rob13" title="User:BU Rob13"><b>Rob</b><small><sub>13</sub></small></a><sup style="margin-left:-1.0ex;"><a href="/wiki/User_talk:BU_Rob13" title="User talk:BU Rob13">Talk</a></sup> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Nableezy/Archive_39#c-BU_Rob13-2017-06-09T03:16:00.000Z-Need_sources?" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">03:16, 9 June 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-BU_Rob13-2017-06-09T03:16:00.000Z-Need_sources?"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-BU_Rob13-2017-06-09T03:16:00.000Z-Need_sources?"></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="WP:_AE_notification" data-mw-thread-id="h-WP:_AE_notification-2017-06-19T00:48:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-WP:_AE_notification-2017-06-19T00:48:00.000Z"></span>WP: AE notification<span data-mw-comment-end="h-WP:_AE_notification-2017-06-19T00:48:00.000Z"></span></h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Davidbena-2017-06-19T00:48:00.000Z-WP:_AE_notification"></span>Please see <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement#Nableezy" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement">Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement#Nableezy</a>, where I asked for admin input on what is believed to be an infringement by you of stated Wikipedia policy, and where you wantonly engaged in <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Gaming_the_system" title="Wikipedia:Gaming the system">WP:Gaming the system</a> to advance your own political views and agenda, and to delete sourced material.<a href="/wiki/User:Davidbena" title="User:Davidbena">Davidbena</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Davidbena" title="User talk:Davidbena">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Nableezy/Archive_39#c-Davidbena-2017-06-19T00:48:00.000Z-WP:_AE_notification" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:48, 19 June 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Davidbena-2017-06-19T00:48:00.000Z-WP:_AE_notification"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Davidbena-2017-06-19T00:48:00.000Z-WP:_AE_notification"></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Have_You_Seen_This_Editorial?" data-mw-thread-id="h-Have_You_Seen_This_Editorial?-2017-07-05T18:59:00.000Z"><span id="Have_You_Seen_This_Editorial.3F"></span><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Have_You_Seen_This_Editorial?-2017-07-05T18:59:00.000Z"></span>Have You Seen This Editorial?<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Have_You_Seen_This_Editorial?-2017-07-05T18:59:00.000Z"></span></h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Davidbena-2017-07-05T18:59:00.000Z-Have_You_Seen_This_Editorial?"></span><link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1256395271"> <table class="hidden-archive mw-collapsible mw-archivedtalk mw-collapsed"> <tbody><tr> <th class="hat-header">Cant make somebody actually reply to the point, but can control when this ends </th></tr> <tr> <td style="font-style:italic;">The following discussion has been closed. <span style="color:var(--color-error, red);"><b>Please do not modify it.</b></span> </td></tr> <tr> <td class="hat-content"> <p>Just to show you how the word "occupying power" is used derogatorily, take a look at this article: <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="http://www.foxnews.com/world/2017/07/05/israel-slams-unesco-vote-that-calls-it-occupying-power.html">Israel slams UNESCO vote that calls it 'occupying power'</a>, published on 5 July 2017 by Fox News.---<a href="/wiki/User:Davidbena" title="User:Davidbena">Davidbena</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Davidbena" title="User talk:Davidbena">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Nableezy/Archive_39#c-Davidbena-2017-07-05T18:59:00.000Z-Have_You_Seen_This_Editorial?" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:59, 5 July 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Davidbena-2017-07-05T18:59:00.000Z-Have_You_Seen_This_Editorial?"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Davidbena-2017-07-05T18:59:00.000Z-Have_You_Seen_This_Editorial?"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Nableezy-2017-07-05T19:09:00.000Z-Davidbena-2017-07-05T18:59:00.000Z"></span>Israel does not determine what is fact and what is not on Wikipedia. You seem to be under the impression that because you dislike something that it cannot be used. Again, there are plenty of Palestinians that say all of Israeli is stolen land. Does that mean that the article <a href="/wiki/Tel_Aviv" title="Tel Aviv">Tel Aviv</a> can not say that it is a city in Israel? It should say it is a city in "disputed territory"? Answer those questions for me and Ill be happy to continue the discussion. Otherwise I dont really see the point. <small style="border: 1px solid;padding:1px 3px;white-space:nowrap"><b><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Nableezy" title="User talk:Nableezy"><span style="color:#C11B17;">nableezy</span></a></b> - <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Nableezy/Archive_39#c-Nableezy-2017-07-05T19:09:00.000Z-Davidbena-2017-07-05T18:59:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:09, 5 July 2017 (UTC)</a></small><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Nableezy-2017-07-05T19:09:00.000Z-Davidbena-2017-07-05T18:59:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Nableezy-2017-07-05T19:09:00.000Z-Davidbena-2017-07-05T18:59:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Davidbena-2017-07-05T21:59:00.000Z-Nableezy-2017-07-05T19:09:00.000Z"></span>Nableezy, here we're dealing with many issues. Yes, some of the land was expropriated for military needs (security), some of the land was legally purchased, and some of the land was abandoned by its tenants after war and conflict; land acquisitions being a very complex subject. We might even go back to the time before Israeli rule, during the British Mandate and Ottoman Turk period, and you may find that not all land tenants were legal land tenants. Take, for example, Silwan (Shiloah), where Yemenite Jews actually bought houses there in the late 19th and early 20th centuries, yet fled their homes during the Arab-Israeli War. Will you call their usurping occupants legal tenants? Of course not! They're thieves! You see, the matter is very complex. Nevertheless, what we're talking about here is current political rule over the country and its inhabitants. We say it is legal, but you say it is not. That makes it a dispute, and that makes Wikipedia treading between a hard and soft place. Be well.<a href="/wiki/User:Davidbena" title="User:Davidbena">Davidbena</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Davidbena" title="User talk:Davidbena">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Nableezy/Archive_39#c-Davidbena-2017-07-05T21:59:00.000Z-Nableezy-2017-07-05T19:09:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:59, 5 July 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Davidbena-2017-07-05T21:59:00.000Z-Nableezy-2017-07-05T19:09:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Davidbena-2017-07-05T21:59:00.000Z-Nableezy-2017-07-05T19:09:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Huldra-2017-07-05T22:13:00.000Z-Davidbena-2017-07-05T21:59:00.000Z"></span>Would you call the inhabitants of the Israeli settlement on <a href="/wiki/Template:Palestinian_Arab_villages_depopulated_during_the_1948_Palestinian_exodus" title="Template:Palestinian Arab villages depopulated during the 1948 Palestinian exodus">these villages</a> for thieves? <a href="/wiki/User:Huldra" title="User:Huldra">Huldra</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Huldra" title="User talk:Huldra">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Nableezy/Archive_39#c-Huldra-2017-07-05T22:13:00.000Z-Davidbena-2017-07-05T21:59:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:13, 5 July 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Huldra-2017-07-05T22:13:00.000Z-Davidbena-2017-07-05T21:59:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Huldra-2017-07-05T22:13:00.000Z-Davidbena-2017-07-05T21:59:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><del><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Davidbena-2017-07-06T01:34:00.000Z-Huldra-2017-07-05T22:13:00.000Z"></span>Hahaha! That was a funny link,</del> but considering that Jews were evicted from their land by the Romans (during incessant wars) and the land was exposed to sale by <a href="/wiki/Vespasian" title="Vespasian">Vespasian</a> (just as we learn in <i><a href="/wiki/The_Jewish_War" title="The Jewish War">The Jewish War</a></i>, VII.6.6 [VII, 216]), it is no wonder then that so many vagrant farmers, or people looking for work, came and settled the country. There's a place for them too. I'm not arguing against that. Still, the history of the people of Israel in its own land cannot be denied.<a href="/wiki/User:Davidbena" title="User:Davidbena">Davidbena</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Davidbena" title="User talk:Davidbena">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Nableezy/Archive_39#c-Davidbena-2017-07-06T01:34:00.000Z-Huldra-2017-07-05T22:13:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:34, 6 July 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Davidbena-2017-07-06T01:34:00.000Z-Huldra-2017-07-05T22:13:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Davidbena-2017-07-06T01:34:00.000Z-Huldra-2017-07-05T22:13:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Nableezy-2017-07-06T04:00:00.000Z-Davidbena-2017-07-06T01:34:00.000Z"></span>I really dont see what is funny about an ethnic cleansing of a native population, but thats just me. <small style="border: 1px solid;padding:1px 3px;white-space:nowrap"><b><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Nableezy" title="User talk:Nableezy"><span style="color:#C11B17;">nableezy</span></a></b> - <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Nableezy/Archive_39#c-Nableezy-2017-07-06T04:00:00.000Z-Davidbena-2017-07-06T01:34:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">04:00, 6 July 2017 (UTC)</a></small><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Nableezy-2017-07-06T04:00:00.000Z-Davidbena-2017-07-06T01:34:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Nableezy-2017-07-06T04:00:00.000Z-Davidbena-2017-07-06T01:34:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Davidbena-2017-07-06T10:03:00.000Z-Nableezy-2017-07-06T04:00:00.000Z"></span>No, may God forbid, I was not laughing at that. I see these villagers as being very unfortunate, but let's remember what caused their situation. I was laughing, rather, at the way she is trying so hard to dispute the claim of Israel's sovereignty over the land. As for the displacement of these people, anyone familiar with the history of the Arab-Israeli conflict can tell you that had these Arab villagers been at peace with Israel, had they not resisted Jewish immigration, had they welcomed Jews in their midst who had possessed Palestinian citizenship and not fought against them, often under the incitement and war-like rhetoric of Sheikh <a href="/wiki/Amin_al-Husseini" title="Amin al-Husseini">Amin al-Husseini</a>, then all of these villagers would have remained in their place. These are the unfortunate circumstances of hostility between the two ethnic-groups living in Palestine.<a href="/wiki/User:Davidbena" title="User:Davidbena">Davidbena</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Davidbena" title="User talk:Davidbena">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Nableezy/Archive_39#c-Davidbena-2017-07-06T10:03:00.000Z-Nableezy-2017-07-06T04:00:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">10:03, 6 July 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Davidbena-2017-07-06T10:03:00.000Z-Nableezy-2017-07-06T04:00:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Davidbena-2017-07-06T10:03:00.000Z-Nableezy-2017-07-06T04:00:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Nableezy-2017-07-06T03:59:00.000Z-Huldra-2017-07-05T22:13:00.000Z"></span>David, you have a serious misunderstanding, at best, of what is at issue here. But you again seem to avoid my point. That saying a village in the West Bank is "in occupied territory" has the same fact basis as saying Tel Aviv is "in Israel", and you only wish to change one of these things. Palestinians dispute Tel Aviv as being "Israel", but that dispute does not render moot the international consensus that Tel Aviv is in fact in Israel. Just as Israel disputing the status of the West Bank does not render moot the international consensus that the West Bank, including East Jerusalem, is occupied Palestinian territory. You only seem to be concerned with advancing the Israeli position with seemingly no interest in the converse dispute. If Israel disputing something means we cannot say it is true then the Palestinians disputing something should likewise mean we cannot say it is true. If the West Bank is not "occupied Palestinian territory" because Israel disputes that then Tel Aviv is not "Israeli territory" because Hamas disputes that. Again, try to see this from outside of an Israel-centric perspective. Wikipedia does not bow to the views of Israel or the Palestinians, we base our articles on reliable sources. The end. <small style="border: 1px solid;padding:1px 3px;white-space:nowrap"><b><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Nableezy" title="User talk:Nableezy"><span style="color:#C11B17;">nableezy</span></a></b> - <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Nableezy/Archive_39#c-Nableezy-2017-07-06T03:59:00.000Z-Huldra-2017-07-05T22:13:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">03:59, 6 July 2017 (UTC)</a></small><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Nableezy-2017-07-06T03:59:00.000Z-Huldra-2017-07-05T22:13:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Nableezy-2017-07-06T03:59:00.000Z-Huldra-2017-07-05T22:13:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Davidbena-2017-07-06T10:30:00.000Z-Nableezy-2017-07-06T03:59:00.000Z"></span>That is incorrect, Nableezy. I have no dispute with you, nor with Wikipedia, on naming conventions, such as "West Bank" and "Israel" as used in their respective places. However, "occupied territory" is NOT a naming convention, but a derogatory adjective that carries a one-sided political message. The matter of whether or not the country currently claimed and held by Israel is "occupied territory" is a matter that is disputed. During the British Mandate and Ottoman Turk rule over Palestine, Jews were also Palestinian citizens. <a href="/wiki/Golda_Meir" title="Golda Meir">Golda Meir</a> was a Palestinian citizen! If you have any complaint, you can say that it is because of what Jewish-Palestinian citizens did to the country after <a href="/wiki/Jordanian_occupation" class="mw-redirect" title="Jordanian occupation">Jordanian occupation</a> of the "West Bank," and what has now come to be known as "occupation in the view of the <a href="/wiki/United_Nations" title="United Nations">United Nations</a>." While Article 49 of the <a href="/wiki/Fourth_Geneva_Convention" title="Fourth Geneva Convention">Fourth Geneva Convention</a>[vi] explicitly prohibits an “Occupying Power” (Israel) from transferring any part of its own civilian population into the territory it occupies, former Israeli Chief Justice of the Supreme Court <a href="/wiki/Meir_Shamgar" title="Meir Shamgar">Meir Shamgar</a> wrote in the 1970s that there is no <i><a href="/wiki/De_jure" title="De jure">de jure</a></i> applicability of the 1949 Fourth Geneva Convention regarding occupied territories to the case of the <a href="/wiki/West_Bank" title="West Bank">West Bank</a> and <a href="/wiki/Gaza_Strip" title="Gaza Strip">Gaza Strip</a> since the Convention "is based on the assumption that there had been a sovereign who was ousted and that he had been a legitimate sovereign." See article: <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="http://www.jcpa.org/jl/vp470.htm"><i>From `Occupied Territories` to `Disputed Territories`</i></a>, by <a href="/wiki/Dore_Gold" title="Dore Gold">Dore Gold</a>, of the <a href="/wiki/Jerusalem_Center_for_Public_Affairs" title="Jerusalem Center for Public Affairs">Jerusalem Center for Public Affairs</a> (Israeli Security, Regional Diplomacy, and International Law). Israeli diplomat, Dore Gold, has stated that the language of "occupation" has allowed Palestinian spokesmen to obfuscate this history. By repeatedly pointing to "occupation," they manage to reverse the causality of the conflict, especially in front of Western audiences. Thus, the current territorial dispute is allegedly the result of an Israeli decision "to occupy," rather than a result of a war imposed on Israel by a coalition of Arab states in 1967 (ibid.). You see, the issue of "occupation," as it relates to Israel and its claim over the country, is a matter of dispute. Accordingly, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:IMPARTIAL" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:IMPARTIAL">WP:IMPARTIAL</a> would apply in our edits here, on Wikipedia, when referring to the term "occupied territory," so as not to take sides in this dispute.<a href="/wiki/User:Davidbena" title="User:Davidbena">Davidbena</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Davidbena" title="User talk:Davidbena">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Nableezy/Archive_39#c-Davidbena-2017-07-06T10:30:00.000Z-Nableezy-2017-07-06T03:59:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">10:30, 6 July 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Davidbena-2017-07-06T10:30:00.000Z-Nableezy-2017-07-06T03:59:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Davidbena-2017-07-06T10:30:00.000Z-Nableezy-2017-07-06T03:59:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><dl><dd><span class="template-ping"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Kingsindian-2017-07-06T14:57:00.000Z-Davidbena-2017-07-06T10:30:00.000Z"></span>@<a href="/wiki/User:Davidbena" title="User:Davidbena">Davidbena</a>:</span> "Occupied Palestinian Territories" is a well-known and accepted name for the West Bank and Gaza. See this UN OHCHR <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="http://www.ohchr.org/EN/Countries/MENARegion/Pages/PSIndex.aspx">page</a>, for instance. <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://www.un.org/press/en/2016/ga11861.doc.htm">Here</a> are the latest UN General Assembly resolutions on Palestine from last November (the votes were 150 to 6 or something like that -- so it's not just "western audiences"); just search for "occupied" or "occupation" or "occupying" and you'll see plenty of hits. You are free to think whatever you want about the history, but when we write on WP, we go by the internationally accepted convention, which considers the West Bank and Gaza as Israeli-occupied territory. <a href="/wiki/User:Kingsindian" title="User:Kingsindian">Kingsindian</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Kingsindian" title="User talk:Kingsindian">♝</a> <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Kingsindian" title="Special:Contributions/Kingsindian">♚</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Nableezy/Archive_39#c-Kingsindian-2017-07-06T14:57:00.000Z-Davidbena-2017-07-06T10:30:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">14:57, 6 July 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Kingsindian-2017-07-06T14:57:00.000Z-Davidbena-2017-07-06T10:30:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Kingsindian-2017-07-06T14:57:00.000Z-Davidbena-2017-07-06T10:30:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Davidbena-2017-07-06T15:12:00.000Z-Kingsindian-2017-07-06T14:57:00.000Z"></span>Thanks, <a href="/wiki/User:Kingsindian" title="User:Kingsindian">Kingsindian</a>. I wasn't denying that "occupied territory" is often used for territories held by Israel in the "West Bank." What I <i>was</i> saying, however, is that the wording takes on a certain political tone, almost critical of Israel, when the matter is actually disputed, especially by the government here in Israel. Rewording a text to read, "such-and-such a place has been under Israeli occupation, according to the international community," would mitigate the tone, and still be faithful to its widespread connotation. The difference is, by rewording the text as I suggested, we steer clear from infringement on <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:IMPARTIAL" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:IMPARTIAL">WP:IMPARTIAL</a>.<a href="/wiki/User:Davidbena" title="User:Davidbena">Davidbena</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Davidbena" title="User talk:Davidbena">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Nableezy/Archive_39#c-Davidbena-2017-07-06T15:12:00.000Z-Kingsindian-2017-07-06T14:57:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:12, 6 July 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Davidbena-2017-07-06T15:12:00.000Z-Kingsindian-2017-07-06T14:57:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Davidbena-2017-07-06T15:12:00.000Z-Kingsindian-2017-07-06T14:57:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> </td></tr></tbody></table> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="ArbCom_2017_election_voter_message" data-mw-thread-id="h-ArbCom_2017_election_voter_message-2017-12-03T18:42:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-ArbCom_2017_election_voter_message-2017-12-03T18:42:00.000Z"></span>ArbCom 2017 election voter message<span data-mw-comment-end="h-ArbCom_2017_election_voter_message-2017-12-03T18:42:00.000Z"></span></h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-MediaWiki_message_delivery-2017-12-03T18:42:00.000Z-ArbCom_2017_election_voter_message"></span><link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1256334245"><div class="ivmbox" style=""> <div class="ivmbox-image" style="flex-basis: 40px"><span typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Scale_of_justice_2.svg" class="mw-file-description"><img src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/0e/Scale_of_justice_2.svg/40px-Scale_of_justice_2.svg.png" decoding="async" width="40" height="41" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/0e/Scale_of_justice_2.svg/60px-Scale_of_justice_2.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/0e/Scale_of_justice_2.svg/80px-Scale_of_justice_2.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="204" data-file-height="208"/></a></span></div> <div class="ivmbox-text"> <p>Hello, Nableezy. Voting in the <b><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:ACE2017" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:ACE2017">2017 Arbitration Committee elections</a></b> is now open until 23.59 on Sunday, 10 December. All users who registered an account before Saturday, 28 October 2017, made at least 150 mainspace edits before Wednesday, 1 November 2017 and are not currently blocked are eligible to vote. Users with alternate accounts may only vote once. </p><p>The <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:ARBCOM" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:ARBCOM">Arbitration Committee</a> is the panel of editors responsible for conducting the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration">Wikipedia arbitration process</a>. It has the authority to impose binding solutions to disputes between editors, primarily for serious conduct disputes the community has been unable to resolve. This includes the authority to impose <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:BAN" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:BAN">site bans</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:TBAN" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:TBAN">topic bans</a>, editing restrictions, and other measures needed to maintain our editing environment. The <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Policy" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Policy">arbitration policy</a> describes the Committee's roles and responsibilities in greater detail. </p><p>If you wish to participate in the 2017 election, please review <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration_Committee_Elections_December_2017/Candidates" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration Committee Elections December 2017/Candidates">the candidates</a> and submit your choices on the <b><a href="/wiki/Special:SecurePoll/vote/400" title="Special:SecurePoll/vote/400">voting page</a></b>. <a href="/wiki/User:MediaWiki_message_delivery" title="User:MediaWiki message delivery">MediaWiki message delivery</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:MediaWiki_message_delivery" title="User talk:MediaWiki message delivery">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Nableezy/Archive_39#c-MediaWiki_message_delivery-2017-12-03T18:42:00.000Z-ArbCom_2017_election_voter_message" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:42, 3 December 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-MediaWiki_message_delivery-2017-12-03T18:42:00.000Z-ArbCom_2017_election_voter_message"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-MediaWiki_message_delivery-2017-12-03T18:42:00.000Z-ArbCom_2017_election_voter_message"></span> </p> </div> </div> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Regarding_Azmi_Bishara's_article" data-mw-thread-id="h-Regarding_Azmi_Bishara's_article-2018-02-22T14:53:00.000Z"><span id="Regarding_Azmi_Bishara.27s_article"></span><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Regarding_Azmi_Bishara's_article-2018-02-22T14:53:00.000Z"></span>Regarding Azmi Bishara's article<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Regarding_Azmi_Bishara's_article-2018-02-22T14:53:00.000Z"></span></h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Zeidan87-2018-02-22T14:53:00.000Z-Regarding_Azmi_Bishara's_article"></span>Dear Nableezy, hope this finds u well. Can u plz help me in reviewing my edits for <a href="/wiki/Azmi_Bishara" title="Azmi Bishara">Azmi Bishara</a> article? I have done the edits at my <a href="/wiki/User:Zeidan87/sandbox" title="User:Zeidan87/sandbox">sandbox</a> because of 500/30 rule. If my edits are OK, plz move it to the article if u accept helping me in that. Thanks in advance.--<a href="/wiki/User:Zeidan87" title="User:Zeidan87">Zeidan87</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Zeidan87" title="User talk:Zeidan87">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Nableezy/Archive_39#c-Zeidan87-2018-02-22T14:53:00.000Z-Regarding_Azmi_Bishara's_article" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">14:53, 22 February 2018 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Zeidan87-2018-02-22T14:53:00.000Z-Regarding_Azmi_Bishara's_article"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Zeidan87-2018-02-22T14:53:00.000Z-Regarding_Azmi_Bishara's_article"></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Thank_you" data-mw-thread-id="h-Thank_you-2018-06-06T04:49:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Thank_you-2018-06-06T04:49:00.000Z"></span>Thank you<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Thank_you-2018-06-06T04:49:00.000Z"></span></h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Debresser-2018-06-06T04:49:00.000Z-Thank_you"></span>Thank you for <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement&diff=844568203&oldid=844567410">this</a>. That was a nice gesture. <a href="/wiki/User:Debresser" title="User:Debresser">Debresser</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Debresser" title="User talk:Debresser">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Nableezy/Archive_39#c-Debresser-2018-06-06T04:49:00.000Z-Thank_you" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">04:49, 6 June 2018 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Debresser-2018-06-06T04:49:00.000Z-Thank_you"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Debresser-2018-06-06T04:49:00.000Z-Thank_you"></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Nonsense" data-mw-thread-id="h-Nonsense-2018-06-08T20:35:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Nonsense-2018-06-08T20:35:00.000Z"></span>Nonsense<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Nonsense-2018-06-08T20:35:00.000Z"></span></h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-OtterAM-2018-06-08T20:35:00.000Z-Nonsense"></span>I would appreciate it if you would keep the nonsense off my user page. If you have something to say, make sure it is factually correct first. <a href="/wiki/User:OtterAM" title="User:OtterAM">OtterAM</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:OtterAM" title="User talk:OtterAM">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Nableezy/Archive_39#c-OtterAM-2018-06-08T20:35:00.000Z-Nonsense" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:35, 8 June 2018 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-OtterAM-2018-06-08T20:35:00.000Z-Nonsense"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-OtterAM-2018-06-08T20:35:00.000Z-Nonsense"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Nableezy-2018-06-08T20:57:00.000Z-OtterAM-2018-06-08T20:35:00.000Z"></span>Asked and answered there. <small style="border: 1px solid;padding:1px 3px;white-space:nowrap"><b><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Nableezy" title="User talk:Nableezy"><span style="color:#C11B17;">nableezy</span></a></b> - <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Nableezy/Archive_39#c-Nableezy-2018-06-08T20:57:00.000Z-OtterAM-2018-06-08T20:35:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:57, 8 June 2018 (UTC)</a><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Nableezy-2018-06-08T20:57:00.000Z-OtterAM-2018-06-08T20:35:00.000Z"></span></small><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Nableezy-2018-06-08T20:57:00.000Z-OtterAM-2018-06-08T20:35:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl>    </div><noscript><img src="https://login.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:CentralAutoLogin/start?type=1x1" alt="" width="1" height="1" style="border: none; position: absolute;"></noscript> <div class="printfooter" data-nosnippet="">Retrieved from "<a dir="ltr" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Nableezy/Archive_39&oldid=1079467238">https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Nableezy/Archive_39&oldid=1079467238</a>"</div></div> <div id="catlinks" class="catlinks catlinks-allhidden" data-mw="interface"></div> </div> </main> </div> <div class="mw-footer-container"> <footer id="footer" class="mw-footer" > <ul id="footer-info"> <li id="footer-info-lastmod"> This page was last edited on 26 March 2022, at 23:20<span class="anonymous-show"> (UTC)</span>.</li> <li id="footer-info-copyright">Text is available under the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Text_of_the_Creative_Commons_Attribution-ShareAlike_4.0_International_License" title="Wikipedia:Text of the Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike 4.0 International License">Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike 4.0 License</a>; additional terms may apply. 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