[Historical] Make Heir to the Throne the default campaign?

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<dd class="profile-posts"><strong>Posts:</strong> <a href="./search.php?author_id=3&sr=posts&sid=4b60c1cf3c6e7c241e70483cd8ba6d07">7071</a></dd> <dd class="profile-joined"><strong>Joined:</strong> August 17th, 2003, 5:07 am</dd> <dd class="profile-custom-field profile-phpbb_location"><strong>Location:</strong> Seattle</dd> <dd class="profile-contact"> <strong>Contact:</strong> <div class="dropdown-container dropdown-left"> <a href="#" class="dropdown-trigger" title="Contact Dave"> <i class="icon fa-commenting-o fa-fw icon-lg" aria-hidden="true"></i><span class="sr-only">Contact Dave</span> </a> <div class="dropdown"> <div class="pointer"><div class="pointer-inner"></div></div> <div class="dropdown-contents contact-icons"> <div> <a href="http://www.wesnoth.org" title="Website" class="last-cell"> <span class="contact-icon phpbb_website-icon">Website</span> </a> </div> </div> </div> </div> </dd> </dl> <div class="postbody"> <div id="post_content296233"> <h3 class="first"> <a href="./viewtopic.php?p=296233&sid=4b60c1cf3c6e7c241e70483cd8ba6d07#p296233">[Historical] Make Heir to the Throne the default campaign?</a> </h3> <p class="author"> <a class="unread" href="./viewtopic.php?p=296233&sid=4b60c1cf3c6e7c241e70483cd8ba6d07#p296233" title="Post"> <i class="icon fa-file fa-fw icon-lightgray icon-md" aria-hidden="true"></i><span class="sr-only">Post</span> </a> <span class="responsive-hide">by <strong><a href="./memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=3&sid=4b60c1cf3c6e7c241e70483cd8ba6d07" style="color: #D52929;" class="username-coloured">Dave</a></strong> » </span><time datetime="2008-05-01T04:37:25+00:00">May 1st, 2008, 4:37 am</time> </p> <div class="content">I had a discussion with rusty about the campaigns in Wesnoth and how appealing they are to beginners. We feel that Heir to the Throne should be returned to being the top, default campaign listed when one chooses to start a campaign. Our rationale for this is as follows:<br> <br> - Heir to the Throne is welcoming to beginners. It is easy on easy level. It introduces players to units slowly, and introduces them to game concepts slowly and steadily.<br> - It is a fun, exciting campaign. If a new user wants a tutorial they would click on tutorial. They want something they can play and have fun with, while learning at the same time.<br> - Heir to the Throne is higher quality (in my and rusty's opinions, but I'm sure many others would agree) than any of those listed above it.<br> - Heir to the Throne is the original and most canonical storyline in Wesnoth.<br> <br> Any thoughts on this?<br> <br> David</div> <div id="sig296233" class="signature">“At Gambling, the deadly sin is to mistake bad play for bad luck.” -- Ian Fleming</div> </div> </div> <div class="back2top"> <a href="#top" class="top" title="Top"> <i class="icon fa-chevron-circle-up fa-fw icon-gray" aria-hidden="true"></i> <span class="sr-only">Top</span> </a> </div> </div> </div> <div id="p296234" class="post has-profile bg1"> <div class="inner"> <dl class="postprofile" id="profile296234"> <dt class="no-profile-rank no-avatar"> <div class="avatar-container"> </div> <a href="./memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=103642&sid=4b60c1cf3c6e7c241e70483cd8ba6d07" class="username">Jozrael</a> </dt> <dd class="profile-posts"><strong>Posts:</strong> <a href="./search.php?author_id=103642&sr=posts&sid=4b60c1cf3c6e7c241e70483cd8ba6d07">1035</a></dd> <dd class="profile-joined"><strong>Joined:</strong> June 2nd, 2006, 1:39 pm</dd> <dd class="profile-custom-field profile-phpbb_location"><strong>Location:</strong> NJ, USA.</dd> </dl> <div class="postbody"> <div id="post_content296234"> <h3 > <a href="./viewtopic.php?p=296234&sid=4b60c1cf3c6e7c241e70483cd8ba6d07#p296234">Re: Make Heir to the Throne the top/main/default campaign?</a> </h3> <p class="author"> <a class="unread" href="./viewtopic.php?p=296234&sid=4b60c1cf3c6e7c241e70483cd8ba6d07#p296234" title="Post"> <i class="icon fa-file fa-fw icon-lightgray icon-md" aria-hidden="true"></i><span class="sr-only">Post</span> </a> <span class="responsive-hide">by <strong><a href="./memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=103642&sid=4b60c1cf3c6e7c241e70483cd8ba6d07" class="username">Jozrael</a></strong> » </span><time datetime="2008-05-01T04:43:28+00:00">May 1st, 2008, 4:43 am</time> </p> <div class="content">Although I personally think AOI should be the default campaign referred to before HttT, simply because it is a great beginners campaign and preps you quite well for a generic understanding of HttT.<br> <br> This being said...<br> <br> HttT is a much better choice as the top campaign for all of your listed reasons. Just if the tutorial also mentioned AOI as a shorter starting campaign alternative, I think it'd be perfect.<br> <br> HttT certainly should be first.</div> </div> </div> <div class="back2top"> <a href="#top" class="top" title="Top"> <i class="icon fa-chevron-circle-up fa-fw icon-gray" aria-hidden="true"></i> <span class="sr-only">Top</span> </a> </div> </div> </div> <div id="p296235" class="post has-profile bg2"> <div class="inner"> <dl class="postprofile" id="profile296235"> <dt class="has-profile-rank no-avatar"> <div class="avatar-container"> </div> <a href="./memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=102572&sid=4b60c1cf3c6e7c241e70483cd8ba6d07" style="color: #AA4444;" class="username-coloured">rusty</a> </dt> <dd class="profile-rank">Inactive Developer</dd> <dd class="profile-posts"><strong>Posts:</strong> <a href="./search.php?author_id=102572&sr=posts&sid=4b60c1cf3c6e7c241e70483cd8ba6d07">21</a></dd> <dd class="profile-joined"><strong>Joined:</strong> January 7th, 2006, 12:26 am</dd> </dl> <div class="postbody"> <div id="post_content296235"> <h3 > <a href="./viewtopic.php?p=296235&sid=4b60c1cf3c6e7c241e70483cd8ba6d07#p296235">Re: Make Heir to the Throne the top/main/default campaign?</a> </h3> <p class="author"> <a class="unread" href="./viewtopic.php?p=296235&sid=4b60c1cf3c6e7c241e70483cd8ba6d07#p296235" title="Post"> <i class="icon fa-file fa-fw icon-lightgray icon-md" aria-hidden="true"></i><span class="sr-only">Post</span> </a> <span class="responsive-hide">by <strong><a href="./memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=102572&sid=4b60c1cf3c6e7c241e70483cd8ba6d07" style="color: #AA4444;" class="username-coloured">rusty</a></strong> » </span><time datetime="2008-05-01T04:44:59+00:00">May 1st, 2008, 4:44 am</time> </p> <div class="content">Definitely agreed, and not just because I cut my teeth on HttT. It serves as a gentle introduction, and would allow the tutorial to be shortened and focussed to "getting them to HttT, which will teach the rest as they go".<br> <br> Rusty.</div> </div> </div> <div class="back2top"> <a href="#top" class="top" title="Top"> <i class="icon fa-chevron-circle-up fa-fw icon-gray" aria-hidden="true"></i> <span class="sr-only">Top</span> </a> </div> </div> </div> <div id="p296247" class="post has-profile bg1"> <div class="inner"> <dl class="postprofile" id="profile296247"> <dt class="no-profile-rank no-avatar"> <div class="avatar-container"> </div> <a href="./memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=103642&sid=4b60c1cf3c6e7c241e70483cd8ba6d07" class="username">Jozrael</a> </dt> <dd class="profile-posts"><strong>Posts:</strong> <a href="./search.php?author_id=103642&sr=posts&sid=4b60c1cf3c6e7c241e70483cd8ba6d07">1035</a></dd> <dd class="profile-joined"><strong>Joined:</strong> June 2nd, 2006, 1:39 pm</dd> <dd class="profile-custom-field profile-phpbb_location"><strong>Location:</strong> NJ, USA.</dd> </dl> <div class="postbody"> <div id="post_content296247"> <h3 > <a href="./viewtopic.php?p=296247&sid=4b60c1cf3c6e7c241e70483cd8ba6d07#p296247">Re: Make Heir to the Throne the top/main/default campaign?</a> </h3> <p class="author"> <a class="unread" href="./viewtopic.php?p=296247&sid=4b60c1cf3c6e7c241e70483cd8ba6d07#p296247" title="Post"> <i class="icon fa-file fa-fw icon-lightgray icon-md" aria-hidden="true"></i><span class="sr-only">Post</span> </a> <span class="responsive-hide">by <strong><a href="./memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=103642&sid=4b60c1cf3c6e7c241e70483cd8ba6d07" class="username">Jozrael</a></strong> » </span><time datetime="2008-05-01T05:54:45+00:00">May 1st, 2008, 5:54 am</time> </p> <div class="content">I like the tutorial <.<</div> </div> </div> <div class="back2top"> <a href="#top" class="top" title="Top"> <i class="icon fa-chevron-circle-up fa-fw icon-gray" aria-hidden="true"></i> <span class="sr-only">Top</span> </a> </div> </div> </div> <div id="p296264" class="post has-profile bg2"> <div class="inner"> <dl class="postprofile" id="profile296264"> <dt class="no-profile-rank no-avatar"> <div class="avatar-container"> </div> <a href="./memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=108162&sid=4b60c1cf3c6e7c241e70483cd8ba6d07" class="username">vicza</a> </dt> <dd class="profile-posts"><strong>Posts:</strong> <a href="./search.php?author_id=108162&sr=posts&sid=4b60c1cf3c6e7c241e70483cd8ba6d07">238</a></dd> <dd class="profile-joined"><strong>Joined:</strong> January 16th, 2008, 11:40 pm</dd> <dd class="profile-custom-field profile-phpbb_location"><strong>Location:</strong> Moscow</dd> </dl> <div class="postbody"> <div id="post_content296264"> <h3 > <a href="./viewtopic.php?p=296264&sid=4b60c1cf3c6e7c241e70483cd8ba6d07#p296264">Re: Make Heir to the Throne the top/main/default campaign?</a> </h3> <p class="author"> <a class="unread" href="./viewtopic.php?p=296264&sid=4b60c1cf3c6e7c241e70483cd8ba6d07#p296264" title="Post"> <i class="icon fa-file fa-fw icon-lightgray icon-md" aria-hidden="true"></i><span class="sr-only">Post</span> </a> <span class="responsive-hide">by <strong><a href="./memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=108162&sid=4b60c1cf3c6e7c241e70483cd8ba6d07" class="username">vicza</a></strong> » </span><time datetime="2008-05-01T06:55:42+00:00">May 1st, 2008, 6:55 am</time> </p> <div class="content"><blockquote><div><cite>Jozrael wrote:</cite>HttT is a much better choice as the top campaign for all of your listed reasons. </div></blockquote> I agree, and I'd also mention another advantage of this campaign: the player encounters during the campaign almost <em class="text-italics">all</em> existing units. It could be useful later.<br> <blockquote class="uncited"><div>Just if the tutorial also mentioned AOI as a shorter starting campaign alternative</div></blockquote> I agree with this, too.<br> <br> <br> I'd also suggest, that Delfador advises should be continued. I mean in the 2nd scenario he explains about horsemen: "But horsemen are powerful in a different way. They have no long range attack, but can charge into combat, inflicting double normal damage, though taking double damage in return etc". In the 3rd scenario he says about mages: "Caution, young prince. It is very difficult to train inexperienced magi in combat. When they fight on the front lines of battle, you must protect magi with stronger units else the enemy will make short work of them." <br> He could say something like this in the next scenarios, too, as they meet new allies/enemies. E.g., in Elensefar he could talk about thieves:<br> <blockquote class="uncited"><div>Reglok: "Victory! The thieves of Elensefar will be in your service, my lord."<br> Konrad: "Well, right. But do I really need them? They are weak, even weaker than Elvish Fighters"<br> Delfador: "Don't underestimate thieves, Konrad. They are weak, but they have backstabbing attack. If an ally stands on the opposite side of the enemy, the thief will deal double damage to him etc etc ." </div></blockquote> Or, when he first time meets Lisar: <blockquote class="uncited"><div>Delfador: "Please remember, Konrad, unlike all your previous enemies the Lisar's forces are lawful. This means they fight better during the day. As your elves are neutral, you may prefer to fight them at night. Your outlaw units, like thieves, could also be useful here."</div></blockquote> And so on... Of course, it's only on easy level, as it is now.<br> <br> <br> (And I'd also like that MP and TVofS would be restored. Interesting scenarios, why were they removed, I wonder?.. <img class="smilies" src="./images/smilies/icon_pensive.gif" width="17" height="16" alt=":hmm:" title="Pensive"> )</div> </div> </div> <div class="back2top"> <a href="#top" class="top" title="Top"> <i class="icon fa-chevron-circle-up fa-fw icon-gray" aria-hidden="true"></i> <span class="sr-only">Top</span> </a> </div> </div> </div> <div id="p296380" class="post has-profile bg1"> <div class="inner"> <dl class="postprofile" id="profile296380"> <dt class="has-profile-rank has-avatar"> <div class="avatar-container"> <a href="./memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=104773&sid=4b60c1cf3c6e7c241e70483cd8ba6d07" class="avatar"><img src="//secure.gravatar.com/avatar/3d4e9fedab340332415341b909f4814f?s=100" width="100" height="100" alt="User avatar" /></a> </div> <a href="./memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=104773&sid=4b60c1cf3c6e7c241e70483cd8ba6d07" style="color: #8621FF;" class="username-coloured">Iris</a> </dt> <dd class="profile-rank">Site Administrator</dd> <dd class="profile-posts"><strong>Posts:</strong> <a href="./search.php?author_id=104773&sr=posts&sid=4b60c1cf3c6e7c241e70483cd8ba6d07">6800</a></dd> <dd class="profile-joined"><strong>Joined:</strong> November 14th, 2006, 5:54 pm</dd> <dd class="profile-custom-field profile-phpbb_location"><strong>Location:</strong> Chile</dd> <dd class="profile-contact"> <strong>Contact:</strong> <div class="dropdown-container dropdown-left"> <a href="#" class="dropdown-trigger" title="Contact Iris"> <i class="icon fa-commenting-o fa-fw icon-lg" aria-hidden="true"></i><span class="sr-only">Contact Iris</span> </a> <div class="dropdown"> <div class="pointer"><div class="pointer-inner"></div></div> <div class="dropdown-contents contact-icons"> <div> <a href="https://irydacea.me/" title="Website" class="last-cell"> <span class="contact-icon phpbb_website-icon">Website</span> </a> </div> </div> </div> </div> </dd> </dl> <div class="postbody"> <div id="post_content296380"> <h3 > <a href="./viewtopic.php?p=296380&sid=4b60c1cf3c6e7c241e70483cd8ba6d07#p296380">Re: Make Heir to the Throne the top/main/default campaign?</a> </h3> <p class="author"> <a class="unread" href="./viewtopic.php?p=296380&sid=4b60c1cf3c6e7c241e70483cd8ba6d07#p296380" title="Post"> <i class="icon fa-file fa-fw icon-lightgray icon-md" aria-hidden="true"></i><span class="sr-only">Post</span> </a> <span class="responsive-hide">by <strong><a href="./memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=104773&sid=4b60c1cf3c6e7c241e70483cd8ba6d07" style="color: #8621FF;" class="username-coloured">Iris</a></strong> » </span><time datetime="2008-05-01T17:24:54+00:00">May 1st, 2008, 5:24 pm</time> </p> <div class="content">Secondary explanations about unit types in other scenarios than the first two would be great. And yes, I agree this should be the first campaign of the list (which can easily be achieved tweaking ranks in mainline campaigns dir).</div> <div id="sig296380" class="signature"><span style="font-size:90%;line-height:116%">Author of the unofficial UtBS sequels <a class="postlink" href="//forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?t=43309"><em class="text-italics">Invasion from the Unknown</em></a> and <a class="postlink" href="//forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?t=32091"><em class="text-italics">After the Storm</em></a>.</span></div> </div> </div> <div class="back2top"> <a href="#top" class="top" title="Top"> <i class="icon fa-chevron-circle-up fa-fw icon-gray" aria-hidden="true"></i> <span class="sr-only">Top</span> </a> </div> </div> </div> <div id="p296430" class="post has-profile bg2"> <div class="inner"> <dl class="postprofile" id="profile296430"> <dt class="has-profile-rank has-avatar"> <div class="avatar-container"> <a href="./memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=101688&sid=4b60c1cf3c6e7c241e70483cd8ba6d07" class="avatar"><img class="avatar" src="./download/file.php?avatar=101688_1218321752.png" width="72" height="72" alt="User avatar" /></a> </div> <a href="./memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=101688&sid=4b60c1cf3c6e7c241e70483cd8ba6d07" style="color: #AA4444;" class="username-coloured">Noyga</a> </dt> <dd class="profile-rank">Inactive Developer</dd> <dd class="profile-posts"><strong>Posts:</strong> <a href="./search.php?author_id=101688&sr=posts&sid=4b60c1cf3c6e7c241e70483cd8ba6d07">1790</a></dd> <dd class="profile-joined"><strong>Joined:</strong> September 26th, 2005, 5:56 pm</dd> <dd class="profile-custom-field profile-phpbb_location"><strong>Location:</strong> France</dd> </dl> <div class="postbody"> <div id="post_content296430"> <h3 > <a href="./viewtopic.php?p=296430&sid=4b60c1cf3c6e7c241e70483cd8ba6d07#p296430">Re: Make Heir to the Throne the top/main/default campaign?</a> </h3> <p class="author"> <a class="unread" href="./viewtopic.php?p=296430&sid=4b60c1cf3c6e7c241e70483cd8ba6d07#p296430" title="Post"> <i class="icon fa-file fa-fw icon-lightgray icon-md" aria-hidden="true"></i><span class="sr-only">Post</span> </a> <span class="responsive-hide">by <strong><a href="./memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=101688&sid=4b60c1cf3c6e7c241e70483cd8ba6d07" style="color: #AA4444;" class="username-coloured">Noyga</a></strong> » </span><time datetime="2008-05-01T19:42:51+00:00">May 1st, 2008, 7:42 pm</time> </p> <div class="content">DISCLAIMER: I haven't played HttT recently, so things might have changed since.<br> <blockquote><div><cite>Dave wrote:</cite>I had a discussion with rusty about the campaigns in Wesnoth and how appealing they are to beginners. We feel that Heir to the Throne should be returned to being the top, default campaign listed when one chooses to start a campaign. Our rationale for this is as follows:<br> <br> - Heir to the Throne is welcoming to beginners. It is easy on easy level. It introduces players to units slowly, and introduces them to game concepts slowly and steadily.</div></blockquote> I disagree. At least the South Guard do a better job here. AFAIK the south guard give a lot of advice about how to play your units when you're playing on easy level, which HttT doesn't.<br> Also from my experience, a Tale of Two brother is a Campaign that i found easier to play and is something that a beginer can complete quickly.</div> <div id="sig296430" class="signature">"Ooh, man, my mage had a 30% chance to miss, but he still managed to hit! Awesome!" <img class="smilies" src="./images/smilies/icon_wink.gif" width="15" height="15" alt=";)" title="Wink"> -- xtifr</div> </div> </div> <div class="back2top"> <a href="#top" class="top" title="Top"> <i class="icon fa-chevron-circle-up fa-fw icon-gray" aria-hidden="true"></i> <span class="sr-only">Top</span> </a> </div> </div> </div> <div id="p296437" class="post has-profile bg1"> <div class="inner"> <dl class="postprofile" id="profile296437"> <dt class="has-profile-rank has-avatar"> <div class="avatar-container"> <a href="./memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=914&sid=4b60c1cf3c6e7c241e70483cd8ba6d07" class="avatar"><img class="avatar" src="./download/file.php?avatar=914_1218291216.png" width="84" height="100" alt="User avatar" /></a> </div> <a href="./memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=914&sid=4b60c1cf3c6e7c241e70483cd8ba6d07" style="color: #AA4444;" class="username-coloured">zookeeper</a> </dt> <dd class="profile-rank">WML Wizard</dd> <dd class="profile-posts"><strong>Posts:</strong> <a href="./search.php?author_id=914&sr=posts&sid=4b60c1cf3c6e7c241e70483cd8ba6d07">9742</a></dd> <dd class="profile-joined"><strong>Joined:</strong> September 11th, 2004, 10:40 pm</dd> <dd class="profile-custom-field profile-phpbb_location"><strong>Location:</strong> Finland</dd> </dl> <div class="postbody"> <div id="post_content296437"> <h3 > <a href="./viewtopic.php?p=296437&sid=4b60c1cf3c6e7c241e70483cd8ba6d07#p296437">Re: Make Heir to the Throne the top/main/default campaign?</a> </h3> <p class="author"> <a class="unread" href="./viewtopic.php?p=296437&sid=4b60c1cf3c6e7c241e70483cd8ba6d07#p296437" title="Post"> <i class="icon fa-file fa-fw icon-lightgray icon-md" aria-hidden="true"></i><span class="sr-only">Post</span> </a> <span class="responsive-hide">by <strong><a href="./memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=914&sid=4b60c1cf3c6e7c241e70483cd8ba6d07" style="color: #AA4444;" class="username-coloured">zookeeper</a></strong> » </span><time datetime="2008-05-01T20:13:42+00:00">May 1st, 2008, 8:13 pm</time> </p> <div class="content"><blockquote><div><cite>Noyga wrote:</cite>Also from my experience, a Tale of Two brother is a Campaign that i found easier to play and is something that a beginer can complete quickly.</div></blockquote> Although IMO TB just isn't a good idea to give to newbies as their first campaign because of the lack of story, bad dialogue and so on. The first campaign experience also needs to be <strong class="text-strong">good</strong> in addition to being easy enough.<br> <br> Personally, I think the only problem with HttT being the first campaign recommended to newbies is that it's so long. A long campaign isn't the best introduction into the game. TSG is of a much more suitable length, and I'd consider it a bit of a better candidate after we've finished polishing up the bandit branch.</div> </div> </div> <div class="back2top"> <a href="#top" class="top" title="Top"> <i class="icon fa-chevron-circle-up fa-fw icon-gray" aria-hidden="true"></i> <span class="sr-only">Top</span> </a> </div> </div> </div> <div id="p296473" class="post has-profile bg2"> <div class="inner"> <dl class="postprofile" id="profile296473"> <dt class="no-profile-rank no-avatar"> <div class="avatar-container"> </div> <a href="./memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=103642&sid=4b60c1cf3c6e7c241e70483cd8ba6d07" class="username">Jozrael</a> </dt> <dd class="profile-posts"><strong>Posts:</strong> <a href="./search.php?author_id=103642&sr=posts&sid=4b60c1cf3c6e7c241e70483cd8ba6d07">1035</a></dd> <dd class="profile-joined"><strong>Joined:</strong> June 2nd, 2006, 1:39 pm</dd> <dd class="profile-custom-field profile-phpbb_location"><strong>Location:</strong> NJ, USA.</dd> </dl> <div class="postbody"> <div id="post_content296473"> <h3 > <a href="./viewtopic.php?p=296473&sid=4b60c1cf3c6e7c241e70483cd8ba6d07#p296473">Re: Make Heir to the Throne the top/main/default campaign?</a> </h3> <p class="author"> <a class="unread" href="./viewtopic.php?p=296473&sid=4b60c1cf3c6e7c241e70483cd8ba6d07#p296473" title="Post"> <i class="icon fa-file fa-fw icon-lightgray icon-md" aria-hidden="true"></i><span class="sr-only">Post</span> </a> <span class="responsive-hide">by <strong><a href="./memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=103642&sid=4b60c1cf3c6e7c241e70483cd8ba6d07" class="username">Jozrael</a></strong> » </span><time datetime="2008-05-01T21:29:57+00:00">May 1st, 2008, 9:29 pm</time> </p> <div class="content">What about AOI <.< =(</div> </div> </div> <div class="back2top"> <a href="#top" class="top" title="Top"> <i class="icon fa-chevron-circle-up fa-fw icon-gray" aria-hidden="true"></i> <span class="sr-only">Top</span> </a> </div> </div> </div> <div id="p296483" class="post has-profile bg1"> <div class="inner"> <dl class="postprofile" id="profile296483"> <dt class="no-profile-rank no-avatar"> <div class="avatar-container"> </div> <a href="./memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=108162&sid=4b60c1cf3c6e7c241e70483cd8ba6d07" class="username">vicza</a> </dt> <dd class="profile-posts"><strong>Posts:</strong> <a href="./search.php?author_id=108162&sr=posts&sid=4b60c1cf3c6e7c241e70483cd8ba6d07">238</a></dd> <dd class="profile-joined"><strong>Joined:</strong> January 16th, 2008, 11:40 pm</dd> <dd class="profile-custom-field profile-phpbb_location"><strong>Location:</strong> Moscow</dd> </dl> <div class="postbody"> <div id="post_content296483"> <h3 > <a href="./viewtopic.php?p=296483&sid=4b60c1cf3c6e7c241e70483cd8ba6d07#p296483">Re: Make Heir to the Throne the top/main/default campaign?</a> </h3> <p class="author"> <a class="unread" href="./viewtopic.php?p=296483&sid=4b60c1cf3c6e7c241e70483cd8ba6d07#p296483" title="Post"> <i class="icon fa-file fa-fw icon-lightgray icon-md" aria-hidden="true"></i><span class="sr-only">Post</span> </a> <span class="responsive-hide">by <strong><a href="./memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=108162&sid=4b60c1cf3c6e7c241e70483cd8ba6d07" class="username">vicza</a></strong> » </span><time datetime="2008-05-01T22:19:00+00:00">May 1st, 2008, 10:19 pm</time> </p> <div class="content"><blockquote><div><cite>Noyga wrote:</cite>I disagree. At least the South Guard do a better job here. AFAIK the south guard give a lot of advice about how to play your units when you're playing on easy level, which HttT doesn't.</div></blockquote> Still... we are talking about beginners, right? TSG on easy is extremely easy, of course (when you have some experience), but only one healer for entire army... and their enemies most time are UD -- rather specific enemy, low vulnerable to usual weapon etc. I don't think it's a best choice for very beginners. And advices -- advices can be added to httt, too, as I suggested already.</div> </div> </div> <div class="back2top"> <a href="#top" class="top" title="Top"> <i class="icon fa-chevron-circle-up fa-fw icon-gray" aria-hidden="true"></i> <span class="sr-only">Top</span> </a> </div> </div> </div> <div id="p296527" class="post has-profile bg2"> <div class="inner"> <dl class="postprofile" id="profile296527"> <dt class="no-profile-rank no-avatar"> <div class="avatar-container"> </div> <a href="./memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=103642&sid=4b60c1cf3c6e7c241e70483cd8ba6d07" class="username">Jozrael</a> </dt> <dd class="profile-posts"><strong>Posts:</strong> <a href="./search.php?author_id=103642&sr=posts&sid=4b60c1cf3c6e7c241e70483cd8ba6d07">1035</a></dd> <dd class="profile-joined"><strong>Joined:</strong> June 2nd, 2006, 1:39 pm</dd> <dd class="profile-custom-field profile-phpbb_location"><strong>Location:</strong> NJ, USA.</dd> </dl> <div class="postbody"> <div id="post_content296527"> <h3 > <a href="./viewtopic.php?p=296527&sid=4b60c1cf3c6e7c241e70483cd8ba6d07#p296527">Re: Make Heir to the Throne the top/main/default campaign?</a> </h3> <p class="author"> <a class="unread" href="./viewtopic.php?p=296527&sid=4b60c1cf3c6e7c241e70483cd8ba6d07#p296527" title="Post"> <i class="icon fa-file fa-fw icon-lightgray icon-md" aria-hidden="true"></i><span class="sr-only">Post</span> </a> <span class="responsive-hide">by <strong><a href="./memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=103642&sid=4b60c1cf3c6e7c241e70483cd8ba6d07" class="username">Jozrael</a></strong> » </span><time datetime="2008-05-02T01:36:15+00:00">May 2nd, 2008, 1:36 am</time> </p> <div class="content">AOIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII</div> </div> </div> <div class="back2top"> <a href="#top" class="top" title="Top"> <i class="icon fa-chevron-circle-up fa-fw icon-gray" aria-hidden="true"></i> <span class="sr-only">Top</span> </a> </div> </div> </div> <div id="p296531" class="post has-profile bg1"> <div class="inner"> <dl class="postprofile" id="profile296531"> <dt class="has-profile-rank has-avatar"> <div class="avatar-container"> <a href="./memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=176&sid=4b60c1cf3c6e7c241e70483cd8ba6d07" class="avatar"><img class="avatar" src="./download/file.php?avatar=176_1218484969.png" width="96" height="84" alt="User avatar" /></a> </div> <a href="./memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=176&sid=4b60c1cf3c6e7c241e70483cd8ba6d07" style="color: #AA4444;" class="username-coloured">turin</a> </dt> <dd class="profile-rank">Lord of the East</dd> <dd class="profile-posts"><strong>Posts:</strong> <a href="./search.php?author_id=176&sr=posts&sid=4b60c1cf3c6e7c241e70483cd8ba6d07">11662</a></dd> <dd class="profile-joined"><strong>Joined:</strong> January 11th, 2004, 7:17 pm</dd> <dd class="profile-custom-field profile-phpbb_location"><strong>Location:</strong> Texas</dd> <dd class="profile-contact"> <strong>Contact:</strong> <div class="dropdown-container dropdown-left"> <a href="#" class="dropdown-trigger" title="Contact turin"> <i class="icon fa-commenting-o fa-fw icon-lg" aria-hidden="true"></i><span class="sr-only">Contact turin</span> </a> <div class="dropdown"> <div class="pointer"><div class="pointer-inner"></div></div> <div class="dropdown-contents contact-icons"> <div> <a href="http://turinhurinson.wordpress.com/" title="Website" class="last-cell"> <span class="contact-icon phpbb_website-icon">Website</span> </a> </div> </div> </div> </div> </dd> </dl> <div class="postbody"> <div id="post_content296531"> <h3 > <a href="./viewtopic.php?p=296531&sid=4b60c1cf3c6e7c241e70483cd8ba6d07#p296531">Re: Make Heir to the Throne the top/main/default campaign?</a> </h3> <p class="author"> <a class="unread" href="./viewtopic.php?p=296531&sid=4b60c1cf3c6e7c241e70483cd8ba6d07#p296531" title="Post"> <i class="icon fa-file fa-fw icon-lightgray icon-md" aria-hidden="true"></i><span class="sr-only">Post</span> </a> <span class="responsive-hide">by <strong><a href="./memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=176&sid=4b60c1cf3c6e7c241e70483cd8ba6d07" style="color: #AA4444;" class="username-coloured">turin</a></strong> » </span><time datetime="2008-05-02T01:50:13+00:00">May 2nd, 2008, 1:50 am</time> </p> <div class="content"><blockquote><div><cite>Jozrael wrote:</cite>AOIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII</div></blockquote> Dude, we got it - you think AOI (An Orcish Incursion, right?) would be a good beginner campaign. Quit spamming this thread about it.</div> <div id="sig296531" class="signature">For I am <a href="http://turinhurinson.wordpress.com" class="postlink">Turin Turambar</a> - Master of Doom, by doom mastered. On permanent Wesbreak. Will not respond to private messages. Sorry!<br> <span style="font-size:75%;line-height:116%">And I hate stupid people.</span><br> <a href="http://www.exong.net/orbivm/" class="postlink">The World of Orbivm</a></div> </div> </div> <div class="back2top"> <a href="#top" class="top" title="Top"> <i class="icon fa-chevron-circle-up fa-fw icon-gray" aria-hidden="true"></i> <span class="sr-only">Top</span> </a> </div> </div> </div> <div id="p296532" class="post has-profile bg2"> <div class="inner"> <dl class="postprofile" id="profile296532"> <dt class="has-profile-rank has-avatar"> <div class="avatar-container"> <a href="./memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=105502&sid=4b60c1cf3c6e7c241e70483cd8ba6d07" class="avatar"><img class="avatar" src="./download/file.php?avatar=105502_1218290391.png" width="60" height="60" alt="User avatar" /></a> </div> <a href="./memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=105502&sid=4b60c1cf3c6e7c241e70483cd8ba6d07" style="color: #AA4444;" class="username-coloured">Mist</a> </dt> <dd class="profile-rank">Inactive Developer</dd> <dd class="profile-posts"><strong>Posts:</strong> <a href="./search.php?author_id=105502&sr=posts&sid=4b60c1cf3c6e7c241e70483cd8ba6d07">753</a></dd> <dd class="profile-joined"><strong>Joined:</strong> February 15th, 2007, 8:44 am</dd> <dd class="profile-custom-field profile-phpbb_location"><strong>Location:</strong> Milton Keynes, UK</dd> </dl> <div class="postbody"> <div id="post_content296532"> <h3 > <a href="./viewtopic.php?p=296532&sid=4b60c1cf3c6e7c241e70483cd8ba6d07#p296532">Re: Make Heir to the Throne the top/main/default campaign?</a> </h3> <p class="author"> <a class="unread" href="./viewtopic.php?p=296532&sid=4b60c1cf3c6e7c241e70483cd8ba6d07#p296532" title="Post"> <i class="icon fa-file fa-fw icon-lightgray icon-md" aria-hidden="true"></i><span class="sr-only">Post</span> </a> <span class="responsive-hide">by <strong><a href="./memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=105502&sid=4b60c1cf3c6e7c241e70483cd8ba6d07" style="color: #AA4444;" class="username-coloured">Mist</a></strong> » </span><time datetime="2008-05-02T01:50:35+00:00">May 2nd, 2008, 1:50 am</time> </p> <div class="content">I don't mind having HttT at the top, at the moment it's if not the best (tastes vary, I rate UtBS higher on story gampelay and replayability) then the most polished campaign we have. I'd probably feel better if at the same time we suggested playing AOI instead of TB at the end of tutorial. <blockquote><div><cite>Jozrael wrote:</cite>AOIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII</div></blockquote> Firstly, it sucks storywise, not as much as Two Brothers do, but it might discourage players that look for something behind all the fighting. Secondly, new players are expected to play the tutorial, and that's the place we should suggest AOI. Thirdly some of the 'advices' in AOI are misleading because ai is crude and doesn't play along, that needs t be fixed before we push it to the fore. Fourthly it completely lacks it's own art.</div> <div id="sig296532" class="signature">Somewhere, between the sacred silence and sleep.<br> Disorder.</div> </div> </div> <div class="back2top"> <a href="#top" class="top" title="Top"> <i class="icon fa-chevron-circle-up fa-fw icon-gray" aria-hidden="true"></i> <span class="sr-only">Top</span> </a> </div> </div> </div> <div id="p296536" class="post has-profile bg1"> <div class="inner"> <dl class="postprofile" id="profile296536"> <dt class="has-profile-rank has-avatar"> <div class="avatar-container"> <a href="./memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=176&sid=4b60c1cf3c6e7c241e70483cd8ba6d07" class="avatar"><img class="avatar" src="./download/file.php?avatar=176_1218484969.png" width="96" height="84" alt="User avatar" /></a> </div> <a href="./memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=176&sid=4b60c1cf3c6e7c241e70483cd8ba6d07" style="color: #AA4444;" class="username-coloured">turin</a> </dt> <dd class="profile-rank">Lord of the East</dd> <dd class="profile-posts"><strong>Posts:</strong> <a href="./search.php?author_id=176&sr=posts&sid=4b60c1cf3c6e7c241e70483cd8ba6d07">11662</a></dd> <dd class="profile-joined"><strong>Joined:</strong> January 11th, 2004, 7:17 pm</dd> <dd class="profile-custom-field profile-phpbb_location"><strong>Location:</strong> Texas</dd> <dd class="profile-contact"> <strong>Contact:</strong> <div class="dropdown-container dropdown-left"> <a href="#" class="dropdown-trigger" title="Contact turin"> <i class="icon fa-commenting-o fa-fw icon-lg" aria-hidden="true"></i><span class="sr-only">Contact turin</span> </a> <div class="dropdown"> <div class="pointer"><div class="pointer-inner"></div></div> <div class="dropdown-contents contact-icons"> <div> <a href="http://turinhurinson.wordpress.com/" title="Website" class="last-cell"> <span class="contact-icon phpbb_website-icon">Website</span> </a> </div> </div> </div> </div> </dd> </dl> <div class="postbody"> <div id="post_content296536"> <h3 > <a href="./viewtopic.php?p=296536&sid=4b60c1cf3c6e7c241e70483cd8ba6d07#p296536">Re: Make Heir to the Throne the top/main/default campaign?</a> </h3> <p class="author"> <a class="unread" href="./viewtopic.php?p=296536&sid=4b60c1cf3c6e7c241e70483cd8ba6d07#p296536" title="Post"> <i class="icon fa-file fa-fw icon-lightgray icon-md" aria-hidden="true"></i><span class="sr-only">Post</span> </a> <span class="responsive-hide">by <strong><a href="./memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=176&sid=4b60c1cf3c6e7c241e70483cd8ba6d07" style="color: #AA4444;" class="username-coloured">turin</a></strong> » </span><time datetime="2008-05-02T02:01:37+00:00">May 2nd, 2008, 2:01 am</time> </p> <div class="content"><blockquote><div><cite>Mist wrote:</cite>I don't mind having HttT at the top, at the moment it's if not the best (tastes vary, I rate UtBS higher on story gampelay and replayability) then the most polished campaign we have.</div></blockquote> So as to not get too OT, I'll leave it at this - tastes do indeed vary. <img class="smilies" src="./images/smilies/icon_laugh.gif" width="16" height="16" alt=":lol2:" title="Laughing"> But yeah, I too think HttT is the best choice for the "default" campaign, which is what people seem to treat the first campaign in the list as...</div> <div id="sig296536" class="signature">For I am <a href="http://turinhurinson.wordpress.com" class="postlink">Turin Turambar</a> - Master of Doom, by doom mastered. On permanent Wesbreak. Will not respond to private messages. Sorry!<br> <span style="font-size:75%;line-height:116%">And I hate stupid people.</span><br> <a href="http://www.exong.net/orbivm/" class="postlink">The World of Orbivm</a></div> </div> </div> <div class="back2top"> <a href="#top" class="top" title="Top"> <i class="icon fa-chevron-circle-up fa-fw icon-gray" aria-hidden="true"></i> <span class="sr-only">Top</span> </a> </div> </div> </div> <div id="p296543" class="post has-profile bg2"> <div class="inner"> <dl class="postprofile" id="profile296543"> <dt class="has-profile-rank has-avatar"> <div class="avatar-container"> <a href="./memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=103155&sid=4b60c1cf3c6e7c241e70483cd8ba6d07" class="avatar"><img class="avatar" src="./download/file.php?avatar=103155_1238682913.jpg" width="99" height="99" alt="User avatar" /></a> </div> <a href="./memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=103155&sid=4b60c1cf3c6e7c241e70483cd8ba6d07" style="color: #AA4444;" class="username-coloured">Wintermute</a> </dt> <dd class="profile-rank">Inactive Developer</dd> <dd class="profile-posts"><strong>Posts:</strong> <a href="./search.php?author_id=103155&sr=posts&sid=4b60c1cf3c6e7c241e70483cd8ba6d07">840</a></dd> <dd class="profile-joined"><strong>Joined:</strong> March 23rd, 2006, 10:28 pm</dd> <dd class="profile-custom-field profile-phpbb_location"><strong>Location:</strong> On IRC as "happygrue" at: #wesnoth-mp</dd> </dl> <div class="postbody"> <div id="post_content296543"> <h3 > <a href="./viewtopic.php?p=296543&sid=4b60c1cf3c6e7c241e70483cd8ba6d07#p296543">Re: Make Heir to the Throne the top/main/default campaign?</a> </h3> <p class="author"> <a class="unread" href="./viewtopic.php?p=296543&sid=4b60c1cf3c6e7c241e70483cd8ba6d07#p296543" title="Post"> <i class="icon fa-file fa-fw icon-lightgray icon-md" aria-hidden="true"></i><span class="sr-only">Post</span> </a> <span class="responsive-hide">by <strong><a href="./memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=103155&sid=4b60c1cf3c6e7c241e70483cd8ba6d07" style="color: #AA4444;" class="username-coloured">Wintermute</a></strong> » </span><time datetime="2008-05-02T02:16:57+00:00">May 2nd, 2008, 2:16 am</time> </p> <div class="content"><blockquote><div><cite>zookeeper wrote:</cite>Although IMO TB just isn't a good idea to give to newbies as their first campaign because of the lack of story, bad dialogue and so on. The first campaign experience also needs to be <strong class="text-strong">good</strong> in addition to being easy enough.</div></blockquote> I agree. HttT made me want to play more Wesnoth. As a 'first' campaign, that seems to be a pretty important goal. It is long, and that might be a problem for some, though it wasn't for me. One advantage of being long, perhaps, is that by the end of it you really have learned quite a bit about the game. Still, I could see wanting a shorter campaign as the default.</div> <div id="sig296543" class="signature">"I just started playing this game a few days ago, and I already see some balance issues."</div> </div> </div> <div class="back2top"> <a href="#top" class="top" title="Top"> <i class="icon fa-chevron-circle-up fa-fw icon-gray" aria-hidden="true"></i> <span class="sr-only">Top</span> </a> </div> </div> </div> <div class="action-bar bar-bottom"> <a href="./posting.php?mode=reply&t=21179&sid=4b60c1cf3c6e7c241e70483cd8ba6d07" class="button" title="This topic is locked, you cannot edit posts or make further replies."> <span>Locked</span> <i class="icon fa-lock fa-fw" aria-hidden="true"></i> </a> <form method="post" action="./viewtopic.php?t=21179&sid=4b60c1cf3c6e7c241e70483cd8ba6d07"> <div class="dropdown-container dropdown-container-left dropdown-button-control sort-tools"> <span title="Display and sorting options" class="button button-secondary dropdown-trigger dropdown-select"> <i 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[Historical] Make Heir to the Throne the default campaign? - The Battle for Wesnoth Forums