CINXE.COM

<!DOCTYPE html> <html class="client-nojs vector-feature-language-in-header-enabled vector-feature-language-in-main-page-header-disabled vector-feature-sticky-header-disabled vector-feature-page-tools-pinned-disabled vector-feature-toc-pinned-clientpref-1 vector-feature-main-menu-pinned-disabled vector-feature-limited-width-clientpref-1 vector-feature-limited-width-content-enabled vector-feature-custom-font-size-clientpref-1 vector-feature-appearance-pinned-clientpref-1 vector-feature-night-mode-enabled skin-theme-clientpref-day vector-toc-available" lang="en" dir="ltr"> <head> <meta charset="UTF-8"> <title>Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2007 July 5 - Wikipedia</title> <script>(function(){var className="client-js vector-feature-language-in-header-enabled vector-feature-language-in-main-page-header-disabled vector-feature-sticky-header-disabled vector-feature-page-tools-pinned-disabled vector-feature-toc-pinned-clientpref-1 vector-feature-main-menu-pinned-disabled vector-feature-limited-width-clientpref-1 vector-feature-limited-width-content-enabled vector-feature-custom-font-size-clientpref-1 vector-feature-appearance-pinned-clientpref-1 vector-feature-night-mode-enabled skin-theme-clientpref-day vector-toc-available";var cookie=document.cookie.match(/(?:^|; )enwikimwclientpreferences=([^;]+)/);if(cookie){cookie[1].split('%2C').forEach(function(pref){className=className.replace(new RegExp('(^| )'+pref.replace(/-clientpref-\w+$|[^\w-]+/g,'')+'-clientpref-\\w+( |$)'),'$1'+pref+'$2');});}document.documentElement.className=className;}());RLCONF={"wgBreakFrames":false,"wgSeparatorTransformTable":["",""],"wgDigitTransformTable":["",""],"wgDefaultDateFormat":"dmy", "wgMonthNames":["","January","February","March","April","May","June","July","August","September","October","November","December"],"wgRequestId":"5fa2d970-8367-46d7-a5ba-7d6d781374dc","wgCanonicalNamespace":"Project","wgCanonicalSpecialPageName":false,"wgNamespaceNumber":4,"wgPageName":"Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_July_5","wgTitle":"Categories for discussion/Log/2007 July 5","wgCurRevisionId":1078526266,"wgRevisionId":1078526266,"wgArticleId":12029750,"wgIsArticle":true,"wgIsRedirect":false,"wgAction":"view","wgUserName":null,"wgUserGroups":["*"],"wgCategories":[],"wgPageViewLanguage":"en","wgPageContentLanguage":"en","wgPageContentModel":"wikitext","wgRelevantPageName":"Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_July_5","wgRelevantArticleId":12029750,"wgIsProbablyEditable":true,"wgRelevantPageIsProbablyEditable":true,"wgRestrictionEdit":[],"wgRestrictionMove":[],"wgNoticeProject":"wikipedia","wgCiteReferencePreviewsActive":false,"wgFlaggedRevsParams":{"tags":{ "status":{"levels":1}}},"wgMediaViewerOnClick":true,"wgMediaViewerEnabledByDefault":true,"wgPopupsFlags":0,"wgVisualEditor":{"pageLanguageCode":"en","pageLanguageDir":"ltr","pageVariantFallbacks":"en"},"wgMFDisplayWikibaseDescriptions":{"search":true,"watchlist":true,"tagline":false,"nearby":true},"wgWMESchemaEditAttemptStepOversample":false,"wgWMEPageLength":90000,"wgRelatedArticlesCompat":[],"wgCentralAuthMobileDomain":false,"wgEditSubmitButtonLabelPublish":true,"wgDiscussionToolsFeaturesEnabled":{"replytool":true,"newtopictool":true,"sourcemodetoolbar":true,"topicsubscription":false,"autotopicsub":false,"visualenhancements":false,"visualenhancements_reply":false,"visualenhancements_pageframe":false},"wgDiscussionToolsFallbackEditMode":"source","wgULSPosition":"interlanguage","wgULSisCompactLinksEnabled":false,"wgVector2022LanguageInHeader":true,"wgULSisLanguageSelectorEmpty":false,"wgCheckUserClientHintsHeadersJsApi":["brands","architecture","bitness","fullVersionList","mobile", "model","platform","platformVersion"],"GEHomepageSuggestedEditsEnableTopics":true,"wgGETopicsMatchModeEnabled":false,"wgGEStructuredTaskRejectionReasonTextInputEnabled":false,"wgGELevelingUpEnabledForUser":false};RLSTATE={"ext.globalCssJs.user.styles":"ready","site.styles":"ready","user.styles":"ready","ext.globalCssJs.user":"ready","user":"ready","user.options":"loading","ext.discussionTools.init.styles":"ready","oojs-ui-core.styles":"ready","oojs-ui.styles.indicators":"ready","mediawiki.widgets.styles":"ready","oojs-ui-core.icons":"ready","skins.vector.search.codex.styles":"ready","skins.vector.styles":"ready","skins.vector.icons":"ready","ext.wikimediamessages.styles":"ready","ext.visualEditor.desktopArticleTarget.noscript":"ready","ext.uls.interlanguage":"ready","wikibase.client.init":"ready","ext.wikimediaBadges":"ready"};RLPAGEMODULES=["site","mediawiki.page.ready","mediawiki.toc","skins.vector.js","ext.centralNotice.geoIP","ext.centralNotice.startUp", "ext.gadget.ReferenceTooltips","ext.gadget.switcher","ext.urlShortener.toolbar","ext.centralauth.centralautologin","ext.popups","ext.visualEditor.desktopArticleTarget.init","ext.visualEditor.targetLoader","ext.echo.centralauth","ext.discussionTools.init","ext.eventLogging","ext.wikimediaEvents","ext.navigationTiming","ext.uls.interface","ext.cx.eventlogging.campaigns","ext.checkUser.clientHints"];</script> <script>(RLQ=window.RLQ||[]).push(function(){mw.loader.impl(function(){return["user.options@12s5i",function($,jQuery,require,module){mw.user.tokens.set({"patrolToken":"+\\","watchToken":"+\\","csrfToken":"+\\"}); }];});});</script> <link rel="stylesheet" href="/w/load.php?lang=en&modules=ext.discussionTools.init.styles%7Cext.uls.interlanguage%7Cext.visualEditor.desktopArticleTarget.noscript%7Cext.wikimediaBadges%7Cext.wikimediamessages.styles%7Cmediawiki.widgets.styles%7Coojs-ui-core.icons%2Cstyles%7Coojs-ui.styles.indicators%7Cskins.vector.icons%2Cstyles%7Cskins.vector.search.codex.styles%7Cwikibase.client.init&only=styles&skin=vector-2022"> <script async="" src="/w/load.php?lang=en&modules=startup&only=scripts&raw=1&skin=vector-2022"></script> <meta name="ResourceLoaderDynamicStyles" content=""> <link rel="stylesheet" href="/w/load.php?lang=en&modules=site.styles&only=styles&skin=vector-2022"> <meta name="generator" content="MediaWiki 1.44.0-wmf.5"> <meta name="referrer" content="origin"> <meta name="referrer" content="origin-when-cross-origin"> <meta name="robots" content="max-image-preview:standard"> <meta name="format-detection" content="telephone=no"> <meta name="viewport" content="width=1120"> <meta property="og:title" content="Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2007 July 5 - Wikipedia"> <meta property="og:type" content="website"> <link rel="alternate" media="only screen and (max-width: 640px)" href="//en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_July_5"> <link rel="alternate" type="application/x-wiki" title="Edit this page" href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_July_5&action=edit"> <link rel="apple-touch-icon" href="/static/apple-touch/wikipedia.png"> <link rel="icon" href="/static/favicon/wikipedia.ico"> <link rel="search" type="application/opensearchdescription+xml" href="/w/rest.php/v1/search" title="Wikipedia (en)"> <link rel="EditURI" type="application/rsd+xml" href="//en.wikipedia.org/w/api.php?action=rsd"> <link rel="canonical" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_July_5"> <link rel="license" href="https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/deed.en"> <link rel="alternate" type="application/atom+xml" title="Wikipedia Atom feed" href="/w/index.php?title=Special:RecentChanges&feed=atom"> <link rel="dns-prefetch" href="//meta.wikimedia.org" /> <link rel="dns-prefetch" href="//login.wikimedia.org"> </head> <body class="ext-discussiontools-replytool-enabled ext-discussiontools-newtopictool-enabled ext-discussiontools-sourcemodetoolbar-enabled skin--responsive skin-vector skin-vector-search-vue mediawiki ltr sitedir-ltr mw-hide-empty-elt ns-4 ns-subject mw-editable page-Wikipedia_Categories_for_discussion_Log_2007_July_5 rootpage-Wikipedia_Categories_for_discussion skin-vector-2022 action-view"><a class="mw-jump-link" href="#bodyContent">Jump to content</a> <div class="vector-header-container"> <header class="vector-header mw-header"> <div class="vector-header-start"> <nav class="vector-main-menu-landmark" aria-label="Site"> <div id="vector-main-menu-dropdown" class="vector-dropdown vector-main-menu-dropdown vector-button-flush-left vector-button-flush-right" > <input type="checkbox" id="vector-main-menu-dropdown-checkbox" role="button" aria-haspopup="true" data-event-name="ui.dropdown-vector-main-menu-dropdown" class="vector-dropdown-checkbox " aria-label="Main menu" > <label id="vector-main-menu-dropdown-label" for="vector-main-menu-dropdown-checkbox" class="vector-dropdown-label cdx-button cdx-button--fake-button cdx-button--fake-button--enabled cdx-button--weight-quiet cdx-button--icon-only " aria-hidden="true" > Main menu </label> <div class="vector-dropdown-content"> <div id="vector-main-menu-unpinned-container" class="vector-unpinned-container"> <div id="vector-main-menu" class="vector-main-menu vector-pinnable-element"> <div class="vector-pinnable-header vector-main-menu-pinnable-header vector-pinnable-header-unpinned" data-feature-name="main-menu-pinned" data-pinnable-element-id="vector-main-menu" data-pinned-container-id="vector-main-menu-pinned-container" data-unpinned-container-id="vector-main-menu-unpinned-container" > <div class="vector-pinnable-header-label">Main menu</div> <button class="vector-pinnable-header-toggle-button vector-pinnable-header-pin-button" data-event-name="pinnable-header.vector-main-menu.pin">move to sidebar</button> <button class="vector-pinnable-header-toggle-button vector-pinnable-header-unpin-button" data-event-name="pinnable-header.vector-main-menu.unpin">hide</button> </div> <div id="p-navigation" class="vector-menu mw-portlet mw-portlet-navigation" > <div class="vector-menu-heading"> Navigation </div> <div class="vector-menu-content"> <ul class="vector-menu-content-list"> <li id="n-mainpage-description" class="mw-list-item"><a href="/wiki/Main_Page" title="Visit the main page [z]" accesskey="z">Main page</a></li><li id="n-contents" class="mw-list-item"><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Contents" title="Guides to browsing Wikipedia">Contents</a></li><li id="n-currentevents" class="mw-list-item"><a href="/wiki/Portal:Current_events" title="Articles related to current events">Current events</a></li><li id="n-randompage" class="mw-list-item"><a href="/wiki/Special:Random" title="Visit a randomly selected article [x]" accesskey="x">Random article</a></li><li id="n-aboutsite" class="mw-list-item"><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:About" title="Learn about Wikipedia and how it works">About Wikipedia</a></li><li id="n-contactpage" class="mw-list-item"><a href="//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Contact_us" title="How to contact Wikipedia">Contact us</a></li> </ul> </div> </div> <div id="p-interaction" class="vector-menu mw-portlet mw-portlet-interaction" > <div class="vector-menu-heading"> Contribute </div> <div class="vector-menu-content"> <ul class="vector-menu-content-list"> <li id="n-help" class="mw-list-item"><a href="/wiki/Help:Contents" title="Guidance on how to use and edit Wikipedia">Help</a></li><li id="n-introduction" class="mw-list-item"><a href="/wiki/Help:Introduction" title="Learn how to edit Wikipedia">Learn to edit</a></li><li id="n-portal" class="mw-list-item"><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Community_portal" title="The hub for editors">Community portal</a></li><li id="n-recentchanges" class="mw-list-item"><a href="/wiki/Special:RecentChanges" title="A list of recent changes to Wikipedia [r]" accesskey="r">Recent changes</a></li><li id="n-upload" class="mw-list-item"><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:File_upload_wizard" title="Add images or other media for use on Wikipedia">Upload file</a></li> </ul> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </nav> <a href="/wiki/Main_Page" class="mw-logo"> <img class="mw-logo-icon" src="/static/images/icons/wikipedia.png" alt="" aria-hidden="true" height="50" width="50"> <img class="mw-logo-wordmark" alt="Wikipedia" src="/static/images/mobile/copyright/wikipedia-wordmark-en.svg" style="width: 7.5em; height: 1.125em;"> <img class="mw-logo-tagline" alt="The Free Encyclopedia" src="/static/images/mobile/copyright/wikipedia-tagline-en.svg" width="117" height="13" style="width: 7.3125em; height: 0.8125em;"> </a> </div> <div class="vector-header-end"> <div id="p-search" role="search" class="vector-search-box-vue vector-search-box-collapses vector-search-box-show-thumbnail vector-search-box-auto-expand-width vector-search-box"> <a href="/wiki/Special:Search" class="cdx-button cdx-button--fake-button cdx-button--fake-button--enabled cdx-button--weight-quiet cdx-button--icon-only search-toggle" title="Search Wikipedia [f]" accesskey="f"> Search </a> <div class="vector-typeahead-search-container"> <div class="cdx-typeahead-search cdx-typeahead-search--show-thumbnail cdx-typeahead-search--auto-expand-width"> <form action="/w/index.php" id="searchform" class="cdx-search-input cdx-search-input--has-end-button"> <div id="simpleSearch" class="cdx-search-input__input-wrapper" data-search-loc="header-moved"> <div class="cdx-text-input cdx-text-input--has-start-icon"> <input class="cdx-text-input__input" type="search" name="search" placeholder="Search Wikipedia" aria-label="Search Wikipedia" autocapitalize="sentences" title="Search Wikipedia [f]" accesskey="f" id="searchInput" > </div> <input type="hidden" name="title" value="Special:Search"> </div> <button class="cdx-button cdx-search-input__end-button">Search</button> </form> </div> </div> </div> <nav class="vector-user-links vector-user-links-wide" aria-label="Personal tools"> <div class="vector-user-links-main"> <div id="p-vector-user-menu-preferences" class="vector-menu mw-portlet emptyPortlet" > <div class="vector-menu-content"> <ul class="vector-menu-content-list"> </ul> </div> </div> <div id="p-vector-user-menu-userpage" class="vector-menu mw-portlet emptyPortlet" > <div class="vector-menu-content"> <ul class="vector-menu-content-list"> </ul> </div> </div> <nav class="vector-appearance-landmark" aria-label="Appearance"> <div id="vector-appearance-dropdown" class="vector-dropdown " title="Change the appearance of the page's font size, width, and color" > <input type="checkbox" id="vector-appearance-dropdown-checkbox" role="button" aria-haspopup="true" data-event-name="ui.dropdown-vector-appearance-dropdown" class="vector-dropdown-checkbox " aria-label="Appearance" > <label id="vector-appearance-dropdown-label" for="vector-appearance-dropdown-checkbox" class="vector-dropdown-label cdx-button cdx-button--fake-button cdx-button--fake-button--enabled cdx-button--weight-quiet cdx-button--icon-only " aria-hidden="true" > Appearance </label> <div class="vector-dropdown-content"> <div id="vector-appearance-unpinned-container" class="vector-unpinned-container"> </div> </div> </div> </nav> <div id="p-vector-user-menu-notifications" class="vector-menu mw-portlet emptyPortlet" > <div class="vector-menu-content"> <ul class="vector-menu-content-list"> </ul> </div> </div> <div id="p-vector-user-menu-overflow" class="vector-menu mw-portlet" > <div class="vector-menu-content"> <ul class="vector-menu-content-list"> <li id="pt-sitesupport-2" class="user-links-collapsible-item mw-list-item user-links-collapsible-item"><a data-mw="interface" href="https://donate.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:FundraiserRedirector?utm_source=donate&utm_medium=sidebar&utm_campaign=C13_en.wikipedia.org&uselang=en" class="">Donate</a> </li> <li id="pt-createaccount-2" class="user-links-collapsible-item mw-list-item user-links-collapsible-item"><a data-mw="interface" href="/w/index.php?title=Special:CreateAccount&returnto=Wikipedia%3ACategories+for+discussion%2FLog%2F2007+July+5" title="You are encouraged to create an account and log in; however, it is not mandatory" class="">Create account</a> </li> <li id="pt-login-2" class="user-links-collapsible-item mw-list-item user-links-collapsible-item"><a data-mw="interface" href="/w/index.php?title=Special:UserLogin&returnto=Wikipedia%3ACategories+for+discussion%2FLog%2F2007+July+5" title="You're encouraged to log in; however, it's not mandatory. [o]" accesskey="o" class="">Log in</a> </li> </ul> </div> </div> </div> <div id="vector-user-links-dropdown" class="vector-dropdown vector-user-menu vector-button-flush-right vector-user-menu-logged-out" title="Log in and more options" > <input type="checkbox" id="vector-user-links-dropdown-checkbox" role="button" aria-haspopup="true" data-event-name="ui.dropdown-vector-user-links-dropdown" class="vector-dropdown-checkbox " aria-label="Personal tools" > <label id="vector-user-links-dropdown-label" for="vector-user-links-dropdown-checkbox" class="vector-dropdown-label cdx-button cdx-button--fake-button cdx-button--fake-button--enabled cdx-button--weight-quiet cdx-button--icon-only " aria-hidden="true" > Personal tools </label> <div class="vector-dropdown-content"> <div id="p-personal" class="vector-menu mw-portlet mw-portlet-personal user-links-collapsible-item" title="User menu" > <div class="vector-menu-content"> <ul class="vector-menu-content-list"> <li id="pt-sitesupport" class="user-links-collapsible-item mw-list-item"><a href="https://donate.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:FundraiserRedirector?utm_source=donate&utm_medium=sidebar&utm_campaign=C13_en.wikipedia.org&uselang=en">Donate</a></li><li id="pt-createaccount" class="user-links-collapsible-item mw-list-item"><a href="/w/index.php?title=Special:CreateAccount&returnto=Wikipedia%3ACategories+for+discussion%2FLog%2F2007+July+5" title="You are encouraged to create an account and log in; however, it is not mandatory"> Create account</a></li><li id="pt-login" class="user-links-collapsible-item mw-list-item"><a href="/w/index.php?title=Special:UserLogin&returnto=Wikipedia%3ACategories+for+discussion%2FLog%2F2007+July+5" title="You're encouraged to log in; however, it's not mandatory. [o]" accesskey="o"> Log in</a></li> </ul> </div> </div> <div id="p-user-menu-anon-editor" class="vector-menu mw-portlet mw-portlet-user-menu-anon-editor" > <div class="vector-menu-heading"> Pages for logged out editors <a href="/wiki/Help:Introduction" aria-label="Learn more about editing">learn more</a> </div> <div class="vector-menu-content"> <ul class="vector-menu-content-list"> <li id="pt-anoncontribs" class="mw-list-item"><a href="/wiki/Special:MyContributions" title="A list of edits made from this IP address [y]" accesskey="y">Contributions</a></li><li id="pt-anontalk" class="mw-list-item"><a href="/wiki/Special:MyTalk" title="Discussion about edits from this IP address [n]" accesskey="n">Talk</a></li> </ul> </div> </div> </div> </div> </nav> </div> </header> </div> <div class="mw-page-container"> <div class="mw-page-container-inner"> <div class="vector-sitenotice-container"> <div id="siteNotice"></div> </div> <div class="vector-column-start"> <div class="vector-main-menu-container"> <div id="mw-navigation"> <nav id="mw-panel" class="vector-main-menu-landmark" aria-label="Site"> <div id="vector-main-menu-pinned-container" class="vector-pinned-container"> </div> </nav> </div> </div> <div class="vector-sticky-pinned-container"> <nav id="mw-panel-toc" aria-label="Contents" data-event-name="ui.sidebar-toc" class="mw-table-of-contents-container vector-toc-landmark"> <div id="vector-toc-pinned-container" class="vector-pinned-container"> <div id="vector-toc" class="vector-toc vector-pinnable-element"> <div class="vector-pinnable-header vector-toc-pinnable-header vector-pinnable-header-pinned" data-feature-name="toc-pinned" data-pinnable-element-id="vector-toc" > <h2 class="vector-pinnable-header-label">Contents</h2> <button class="vector-pinnable-header-toggle-button vector-pinnable-header-pin-button" data-event-name="pinnable-header.vector-toc.pin">move to sidebar</button> <button class="vector-pinnable-header-toggle-button vector-pinnable-header-unpin-button" data-event-name="pinnable-header.vector-toc.unpin">hide</button> </div> <ul class="vector-toc-contents" id="mw-panel-toc-list"> <li id="toc-mw-content-text" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a href="#" class="vector-toc-link"> <div class="vector-toc-text">(Top)</div> </a> </li> <li id="toc-July_5" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1 vector-toc-list-item-expanded"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#July_5"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 1 July 5 </div> </a> <button aria-controls="toc-July_5-sublist" class="cdx-button cdx-button--weight-quiet cdx-button--icon-only vector-toc-toggle"> Toggle July 5 subsection </button> <ul id="toc-July_5-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> <li id="toc-Category:Chicago_politicians" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-2"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Category:Chicago_politicians"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 1.1 Category:Chicago politicians </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Category:Chicago_politicians-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Category:Lists_of_journalists" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-2"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Category:Lists_of_journalists"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 1.2 Category:Lists of journalists </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Category:Lists_of_journalists-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Eponymous_band_categories_-_W" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-2"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Eponymous_band_categories_-_W"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 1.3 Eponymous band categories - W </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Eponymous_band_categories_-_W-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Category:Buses_in_Hong_Kong" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-2"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Category:Buses_in_Hong_Kong"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 1.4 Category:Buses in Hong Kong </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Category:Buses_in_Hong_Kong-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Category:Bus_companies" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-2"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Category:Bus_companies"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 1.5 Category:Bus companies </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Category:Bus_companies-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Category:Fictional_characters_with_eidetic_memory" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-2"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Category:Fictional_characters_with_eidetic_memory"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 1.6 Category:Fictional characters with eidetic memory </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Category:Fictional_characters_with_eidetic_memory-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Category:Early_(pre-1914)_Association_Football_players" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-2"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Category:Early_(pre-1914)_Association_Football_players"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 1.7 Category:Early (pre-1914) Association Football players </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Category:Early_(pre-1914)_Association_Football_players-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Category:Films_about_coal_mining" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-2"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Category:Films_about_coal_mining"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 1.8 Category:Films about coal mining </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Category:Films_about_coal_mining-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Category:Films_about_cooking" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-2"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Category:Films_about_cooking"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 1.9 Category:Films about cooking </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Category:Films_about_cooking-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Category:Occupation_films" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-2"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Category:Occupation_films"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 1.10 Category:Occupation films </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Category:Occupation_films-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Category:Tottenham_Hotspur_F.C._fans" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-2"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Category:Tottenham_Hotspur_F.C._fans"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 1.11 Category:Tottenham Hotspur F.C. fans </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Category:Tottenham_Hotspur_F.C._fans-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Category:Major_Doctor_Who_Villains" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-2"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Category:Major_Doctor_Who_Villains"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 1.12 Category:Major Doctor Who Villains </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Category:Major_Doctor_Who_Villains-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Category:Youth_Organizations_of_California" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-2"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Category:Youth_Organizations_of_California"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 1.13 Category:Youth Organizations of California </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Category:Youth_Organizations_of_California-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Category:Youth_Organizations_of_San_Diego" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-2"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Category:Youth_Organizations_of_San_Diego"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 1.14 Category:Youth Organizations of San Diego </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Category:Youth_Organizations_of_San_Diego-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Category:Live_Action_films_based_on_Cartoons" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-2"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Category:Live_Action_films_based_on_Cartoons"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 1.15 Category:Live Action films based on Cartoons </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Category:Live_Action_films_based_on_Cartoons-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Category:"A"_Film_Festivals" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-2"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Category:"A"_Film_Festivals"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 1.16 Category:"A" Film Festivals </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Category:"A"_Film_Festivals-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Category:Homophobic_films" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-2"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Category:Homophobic_films"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 1.17 Category:Homophobic films </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Category:Homophobic_films-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Category:Historical_members_of_the_Executive_Council_of_New_Brunswick" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-2"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Category:Historical_members_of_the_Executive_Council_of_New_Brunswick"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 1.18 Category:Historical members of the Executive Council of New Brunswick </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Category:Historical_members_of_the_Executive_Council_of_New_Brunswick-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Category:Historical_women_who_lived_as_male" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-2"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Category:Historical_women_who_lived_as_male"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 1.19 Category:Historical women who lived as male </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Category:Historical_women_who_lived_as_male-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Category:Historical_upper_houses_of_the_United_Kingdom" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-2"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Category:Historical_upper_houses_of_the_United_Kingdom"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 1.20 Category:Historical upper houses of the United Kingdom </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Category:Historical_upper_houses_of_the_United_Kingdom-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Category:Historical_upper_houses" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-2"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Category:Historical_upper_houses"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 1.21 Category:Historical upper houses </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Category:Historical_upper_houses-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Category:Historical_railway_companies_of_Germany" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-2"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Category:Historical_railway_companies_of_Germany"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 1.22 Category:Historical railway companies of Germany </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Category:Historical_railway_companies_of_Germany-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Category:Historical_programming_languages" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-2"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Category:Historical_programming_languages"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 1.23 Category:Historical programming languages </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Category:Historical_programming_languages-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Category:Historical_lower_houses" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-2"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Category:Historical_lower_houses"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 1.24 Category:Historical lower houses </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Category:Historical_lower_houses-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Category:Signatory_of_"A_Scientific_Dissent_From_Darwinism"" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-2"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Category:Signatory_of_"A_Scientific_Dissent_From_Darwinism""> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 1.25 Category:Signatory of "A Scientific Dissent From Darwinism" </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Category:Signatory_of_"A_Scientific_Dissent_From_Darwinism"-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Category:Pages_Needing_to_be_Archived" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-2"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Category:Pages_Needing_to_be_Archived"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 1.26 Category:Pages Needing to be Archived </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Category:Pages_Needing_to_be_Archived-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> </ul> </li> </ul> </div> </div> </nav> </div> </div> <div class="mw-content-container"> <main id="content" class="mw-body"> <header class="mw-body-header vector-page-titlebar"> <nav aria-label="Contents" class="vector-toc-landmark"> <div id="vector-page-titlebar-toc" class="vector-dropdown vector-page-titlebar-toc vector-button-flush-left" > <input type="checkbox" id="vector-page-titlebar-toc-checkbox" role="button" aria-haspopup="true" data-event-name="ui.dropdown-vector-page-titlebar-toc" class="vector-dropdown-checkbox " aria-label="Toggle the table of contents" > <label id="vector-page-titlebar-toc-label" for="vector-page-titlebar-toc-checkbox" class="vector-dropdown-label cdx-button cdx-button--fake-button cdx-button--fake-button--enabled cdx-button--weight-quiet cdx-button--icon-only " aria-hidden="true" > Toggle the table of contents </label> <div class="vector-dropdown-content"> <div id="vector-page-titlebar-toc-unpinned-container" class="vector-unpinned-container"> </div> </div> </div> </nav> <h1 id="firstHeading" class="firstHeading mw-first-heading">Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2007 July 5</h1> <div id="p-lang-btn" class="vector-dropdown mw-portlet mw-portlet-lang" > <input type="checkbox" id="p-lang-btn-checkbox" role="button" aria-haspopup="true" data-event-name="ui.dropdown-p-lang-btn" class="vector-dropdown-checkbox mw-interlanguage-selector" aria-label="This article exist only in this language. Add the article for other languages" > <label id="p-lang-btn-label" for="p-lang-btn-checkbox" class="vector-dropdown-label cdx-button cdx-button--fake-button cdx-button--fake-button--enabled cdx-button--weight-quiet cdx-button--action-progressive mw-portlet-lang-heading-0" aria-hidden="true" > Add languages </label> <div class="vector-dropdown-content"> <div class="vector-menu-content"> <ul class="vector-menu-content-list"> </ul> <div class="after-portlet after-portlet-lang"><a href="https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Special:NewItem?site=enwiki&page=Wikipedia%3ACategories+for+discussion%2FLog%2F2007+July+5" title="Add interlanguage links" class="wbc-editpage">Add links</a></div> </div> </div> </div> </header> <div class="vector-page-toolbar"> <div class="vector-page-toolbar-container"> <div id="left-navigation"> <nav aria-label="Namespaces"> <div id="p-associated-pages" class="vector-menu vector-menu-tabs mw-portlet mw-portlet-associated-pages" > <div class="vector-menu-content"> <ul class="vector-menu-content-list"> <li id="ca-nstab-project" class="selected vector-tab-noicon mw-list-item"><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_July_5" title="View the project page [c]" accesskey="c">Project page</a></li><li id="ca-talk" class="new vector-tab-noicon mw-list-item"><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia_talk:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_July_5&action=edit&redlink=1" rel="discussion" class="new" title="Discuss improvements to the content page (page does not exist) [t]" accesskey="t">Talk</a></li> </ul> </div> </div> <div id="vector-variants-dropdown" class="vector-dropdown emptyPortlet" > <input type="checkbox" id="vector-variants-dropdown-checkbox" role="button" aria-haspopup="true" data-event-name="ui.dropdown-vector-variants-dropdown" class="vector-dropdown-checkbox " aria-label="Change language variant" > <label id="vector-variants-dropdown-label" for="vector-variants-dropdown-checkbox" class="vector-dropdown-label cdx-button cdx-button--fake-button cdx-button--fake-button--enabled cdx-button--weight-quiet" aria-hidden="true" >English </label> <div class="vector-dropdown-content"> <div id="p-variants" class="vector-menu mw-portlet mw-portlet-variants emptyPortlet" > <div class="vector-menu-content"> <ul class="vector-menu-content-list"> </ul> </div> </div> </div> </div> </nav> </div> <div id="right-navigation" class="vector-collapsible"> <nav aria-label="Views"> <div id="p-views" class="vector-menu vector-menu-tabs mw-portlet mw-portlet-views" > <div class="vector-menu-content"> <ul class="vector-menu-content-list"> <li id="ca-view" class="selected vector-tab-noicon mw-list-item"><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_July_5">Read</a></li><li id="ca-edit" class="vector-tab-noicon mw-list-item"><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_July_5&action=edit" title="Edit this page [e]" accesskey="e">Edit</a></li><li id="ca-history" class="vector-tab-noicon mw-list-item"><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_July_5&action=history" title="Past revisions of this page [h]" accesskey="h">View history</a></li> </ul> </div> </div> </nav> <nav class="vector-page-tools-landmark" aria-label="Page tools"> <div id="vector-page-tools-dropdown" class="vector-dropdown vector-page-tools-dropdown" > <input type="checkbox" id="vector-page-tools-dropdown-checkbox" role="button" aria-haspopup="true" data-event-name="ui.dropdown-vector-page-tools-dropdown" class="vector-dropdown-checkbox " aria-label="Tools" > <label id="vector-page-tools-dropdown-label" for="vector-page-tools-dropdown-checkbox" class="vector-dropdown-label cdx-button cdx-button--fake-button cdx-button--fake-button--enabled cdx-button--weight-quiet" aria-hidden="true" >Tools </label> <div class="vector-dropdown-content"> <div id="vector-page-tools-unpinned-container" class="vector-unpinned-container"> <div id="vector-page-tools" class="vector-page-tools vector-pinnable-element"> <div class="vector-pinnable-header vector-page-tools-pinnable-header vector-pinnable-header-unpinned" data-feature-name="page-tools-pinned" data-pinnable-element-id="vector-page-tools" data-pinned-container-id="vector-page-tools-pinned-container" data-unpinned-container-id="vector-page-tools-unpinned-container" > <div class="vector-pinnable-header-label">Tools</div> <button class="vector-pinnable-header-toggle-button vector-pinnable-header-pin-button" data-event-name="pinnable-header.vector-page-tools.pin">move to sidebar</button> <button class="vector-pinnable-header-toggle-button vector-pinnable-header-unpin-button" data-event-name="pinnable-header.vector-page-tools.unpin">hide</button> </div> <div id="p-cactions" class="vector-menu mw-portlet mw-portlet-cactions emptyPortlet vector-has-collapsible-items" title="More options" > <div class="vector-menu-heading"> Actions </div> <div class="vector-menu-content"> <ul class="vector-menu-content-list"> <li id="ca-more-view" class="selected vector-more-collapsible-item mw-list-item"><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_July_5">Read</a></li><li id="ca-more-edit" class="vector-more-collapsible-item mw-list-item"><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_July_5&action=edit" title="Edit this page [e]" accesskey="e">Edit</a></li><li id="ca-more-history" class="vector-more-collapsible-item mw-list-item"><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_July_5&action=history">View history</a></li> </ul> </div> </div> <div id="p-tb" class="vector-menu mw-portlet mw-portlet-tb" > <div class="vector-menu-heading"> General </div> <div class="vector-menu-content"> <ul class="vector-menu-content-list"> <li id="t-whatlinkshere" class="mw-list-item"><a href="/wiki/Special:WhatLinksHere/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_July_5" title="List of all English Wikipedia pages containing links to this page [j]" accesskey="j">What links here</a></li><li id="t-recentchangeslinked" class="mw-list-item"><a href="/wiki/Special:RecentChangesLinked/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_July_5" rel="nofollow" title="Recent changes in pages linked from this page [k]" accesskey="k">Related changes</a></li><li id="t-upload" class="mw-list-item"><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:File_Upload_Wizard" title="Upload files [u]" accesskey="u">Upload file</a></li><li id="t-specialpages" class="mw-list-item"><a href="/wiki/Special:SpecialPages" title="A list of all special pages [q]" accesskey="q">Special pages</a></li><li id="t-permalink" class="mw-list-item"><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_July_5&oldid=1078526266" title="Permanent link to this revision of this page">Permanent link</a></li><li id="t-info" class="mw-list-item"><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_July_5&action=info" title="More information about this page">Page information</a></li><li id="t-urlshortener" class="mw-list-item"><a href="/w/index.php?title=Special:UrlShortener&url=https%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FWikipedia%3ACategories_for_discussion%2FLog%2F2007_July_5">Get shortened URL</a></li><li id="t-urlshortener-qrcode" class="mw-list-item"><a href="/w/index.php?title=Special:QrCode&url=https%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FWikipedia%3ACategories_for_discussion%2FLog%2F2007_July_5">Download QR code</a></li> </ul> </div> </div> <div id="p-coll-print_export" class="vector-menu mw-portlet mw-portlet-coll-print_export" > <div class="vector-menu-heading"> Print/export </div> <div class="vector-menu-content"> <ul class="vector-menu-content-list"> <li id="coll-download-as-rl" class="mw-list-item"><a href="/w/index.php?title=Special:DownloadAsPdf&page=Wikipedia%3ACategories_for_discussion%2FLog%2F2007_July_5&action=show-download-screen" title="Download this page as a PDF file">Download as PDF</a></li><li id="t-print" class="mw-list-item"><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_July_5&printable=yes" title="Printable version of this page [p]" accesskey="p">Printable version</a></li> </ul> </div> </div> <div id="p-wikibase-otherprojects" class="vector-menu mw-portlet mw-portlet-wikibase-otherprojects emptyPortlet" > <div class="vector-menu-heading"> In other projects </div> <div class="vector-menu-content"> <ul class="vector-menu-content-list"> </ul> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </nav> </div> </div> </div> <div class="vector-column-end"> <div class="vector-sticky-pinned-container"> <nav class="vector-page-tools-landmark" aria-label="Page tools"> <div id="vector-page-tools-pinned-container" class="vector-pinned-container"> </div> </nav> <nav class="vector-appearance-landmark" aria-label="Appearance"> <div id="vector-appearance-pinned-container" class="vector-pinned-container"> <div id="vector-appearance" class="vector-appearance vector-pinnable-element"> <div class="vector-pinnable-header vector-appearance-pinnable-header vector-pinnable-header-pinned" data-feature-name="appearance-pinned" data-pinnable-element-id="vector-appearance" data-pinned-container-id="vector-appearance-pinned-container" data-unpinned-container-id="vector-appearance-unpinned-container" > <div class="vector-pinnable-header-label">Appearance</div> <button class="vector-pinnable-header-toggle-button vector-pinnable-header-pin-button" data-event-name="pinnable-header.vector-appearance.pin">move to sidebar</button> <button class="vector-pinnable-header-toggle-button vector-pinnable-header-unpin-button" data-event-name="pinnable-header.vector-appearance.unpin">hide</button> </div> </div> </div> </nav> </div> </div> <div id="bodyContent" class="vector-body" aria-labelledby="firstHeading" data-mw-ve-target-container> <div class="vector-body-before-content"> <div class="mw-indicators"> </div> <div id="siteSub" class="noprint">From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia</div> </div> <div id="contentSub"><div id="mw-content-subtitle"><div class="subpages">< <bdi dir="ltr"><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion" title="Wikipedia:Categories for discussion">Wikipedia:Categories for discussion</a></bdi> | <bdi dir="ltr"><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log">Log</a></bdi></div></div></div> <div id="mw-content-text" class="mw-body-content"><div class="mw-content-ltr mw-parser-output" lang="en" dir="ltr"><div class="boilerplate vfd" style="background-color: #F3F9FF; margin: 0 auto; padding: 0 1px 0 0; border: 1px solid #AAAAAA; font-size:10px"> <table width="100%"> <tbody><tr> <th style="width:50%; text-align:left;">< <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_July_4" title="Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2007 July 4">July 4</a> </th> <th style="width:50%; text-align:right;"><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_July_6" title="Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2007 July 6">July 6</a> > </th></tr></tbody></table> </div> <meta property="mw:PageProp/toc"/> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading3"><h3 id="July_5" data-mw-thread-id="h-July_5-2007-07-05T00:14:00.000Z">July 5</h3>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_July_5&action=edit&section=1" title="Edit section: July 5">edit</a>]</div> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading4"><h4 id="Category:Chicago_politicians" data-mw-thread-id="h-Category:Chicago_politicians-July_5-2007-07-05T23:52:00.000Z">Category:Chicago politicians</h4>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_July_5&action=edit&section=2" title="Edit section: Category:Chicago politicians">edit</a>]</div> <div class="boilerplate vfd" style="background:#bff9fc; margin:0 auto; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #AAAAAA;"> <dl><dd>The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Deletion_review" title="Wikipedia:Deletion review">deletion review</a>). No further edits should be made to this section.</dd></dl> <dl><dd>The result of the discussion was: no rename. <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Radiant!" title="User talk:Radiant!">>Radiant<</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_July_5#c-Radiant!-2007-07-10T13:32:00.000Z-Category:Chicago_politicians" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">13:32, 10 July 2007 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd> <dd>Propose renaming <a href="/w/index.php?title=Category:Chicago_politicians&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category:Chicago politicians (page does not exist)">Category:Chicago politicians</a> to <a href="/wiki/Category:Politicians_from_Chicago" title="Category:Politicians from Chicago">Category:Politicians from Chicago</a></dd> <dd>Nominator's rationale: Rename: Going to be cleaning up the <a href="/wiki/Category:People_from_Chicago" title="Category:People from Chicago">Category:People from Chicago</a> by sorting them. I think this current category name is too narrow, and should be changed to encompass all politicians who are from Chicago no matter where they live now. <a href="/wiki/User:Kranar_drogin" title="User:Kranar drogin">Kranar drogin</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_July_5#c-Kranar_drogin-2007-07-05T23:52:00.000Z-Category:Chicago_politicians" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:52, 5 July 2007 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl> <ul><li>Oppose This should not be changed in isolation. It goes against the whole way that politicians are organised at the local level, which is by where they served/represented, not by place of origin. <a href="/wiki/User:Nathanian" title="User:Nathanian">Nathanian</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_July_5#c-Nathanian-2007-07-05T23:58:00.000Z-Category:Chicago_politicians" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:58, 5 July 2007 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li></ul> <dl><dd>Comment - The reason I would like to make it broader, is rather lumping everyone into a huge Category like People from Chicago, it would be better to seperate them, especially politicians. Right now you have to go through page after page of people to find who/what you are looking for.--<a href="/wiki/User:Kranar_drogin" title="User:Kranar drogin">Kranar drogin</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_July_5#c-Kranar_drogin-2007-07-06T00:13:00.000Z-Category:Chicago_politicians" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:13, 6 July 2007 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl> <ul><li>Oppose. Membership in this category would not be obvious in the article since most of the entries would not be Chicago politicians. Being a politician in some location is a trivial intersection with Chicago. If expanded and this person is a politician and an actor and a musician and a porn star we would also have to add 3 more categories for this person per city where they lived. Given the current problems with too many categories in many people articles, this seems like a bad direction to take. <a href="/wiki/User:Vegaswikian" title="User:Vegaswikian">Vegaswikian</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_July_5#c-Vegaswikian-2007-07-06T00:10:00.000Z-Category:Chicago_politicians" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:10, 6 July 2007 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <ul><li>As a side note, if kept, someone will need to cleanup all of the articles added here that are not politicians in Chicago. I suspect this is not something that a bot can handle. Don't know how many right now, but I know that some were changed. They need to be changed back to <a href="/wiki/Category:People_from_Chicago" title="Category:People from Chicago">Category:People from Chicago</a>. <a href="/wiki/User:Vegaswikian" title="User:Vegaswikian">Vegaswikian</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_July_5#c-Vegaswikian-2007-07-06T05:35:00.000Z-Vegaswikian-2007-07-06T00:10:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">05:35, 6 July 2007 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li></ul></li> <li>Oppose Foo politicians should be politicians working in Foo (serving, trying to get elected, what have you) not those merely born, raised, or schooled there or otherwise not in the Foo political scene. <a href="/wiki/User:Carlossuarez46" title="User:Carlossuarez46">Carlossuarez46</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_July_5#c-Carlossuarez46-2007-07-06T00:19:00.000Z-Category:Chicago_politicians" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:19, 6 July 2007 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li> <li>Oppose Politicians are defined by where they are active, more than by where they are born. <a href="/wiki/User:Ravenhurst" title="User:Ravenhurst">Ravenhurst</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_July_5#c-Ravenhurst-2007-07-06T13:04:00.000Z-Category:Chicago_politicians" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">13:04, 6 July 2007 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li></ul> <hr/> <dl><dd>The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Deletion_review" title="Wikipedia:Deletion review">deletion review</a>). No further edits should be made to this section.</dd></dl></div> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading4"><h4 id="Category:Lists_of_journalists" data-mw-thread-id="h-Category:Lists_of_journalists-July_5-2007-07-05T23:02:00.000Z">Category:Lists of journalists</h4>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_July_5&action=edit&section=3" title="Edit section: Category:Lists of journalists">edit</a>]</div> <div class="boilerplate vfd" style="background:#bff9fc; margin:0 auto; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #AAAAAA;"> <dl><dd>The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Deletion_review" title="Wikipedia:Deletion review">deletion review</a>). No further edits should be made to this section.</dd></dl> <dl><dd>The result of the discussion was: keep for now; iff the individual lists get prodded or otherwise deleted, this can be then be speedied as empty. <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Radiant!" title="User talk:Radiant!">>Radiant<</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_July_5#c-Radiant!-2007-07-10T13:32:00.000Z-Category:Lists_of_journalists" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">13:32, 10 July 2007 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd> <dd><a href="/wiki/Category:Lists_of_journalists" title="Category:Lists of journalists">Category:Lists of journalists</a> (<a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Category:Lists_of_journalists&action=edit">edit</a> | <a href="/wiki/Category_talk:Lists_of_journalists" title="Category talk:Lists of journalists">talk</a> | <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Category:Lists_of_journalists&action=history">history</a> | <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Whatlinkshere/:Category:Lists_of_journalists">links</a> | <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Category:Lists_of_journalists&action=watch">watch</a> | <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Log&page=%3ACategory%3ALists+of+journalists">logs</a>) </dd> <dd>Nominator's rationale: Delete Lightly-populated category of cruft, and each of the individual entries should be prod'd or translated into their own categories instead of as list pages. <a href="/wiki/User:TedFrank" class="mw-redirect" title="User:TedFrank">THF</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_July_5#c-TedFrank-2007-07-05T23:02:00.000Z-Category:Lists_of_journalists" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:02, 5 July 2007 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl> <ul><li>Keep for as long as there are at least two lists of journalists that have not been deleted. And three of the ones currently in the category (which are not necessarily the only ones that exist) have not even been nominated for deletion. <a href="/wiki/User:Nathanian" title="User:Nathanian">Nathanian</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_July_5#c-Nathanian-2007-07-05T23:59:00.000Z-Category:Lists_of_journalists" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:59, 5 July 2007 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li> <li>Keep per Nathanian. You will find that the general feeling here is to turn categories into lists, not the other way around. <a href="/wiki/User:Johnbod" title="User:Johnbod">Johnbod</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_July_5#c-Johnbod-2007-07-06T00:55:00.000Z-Category:Lists_of_journalists" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:55, 6 July 2007 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li></ul> <hr/> <dl><dd>The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Deletion_review" title="Wikipedia:Deletion review">deletion review</a>). No further edits should be made to this section.</dd></dl></div> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading4"><h4 id="Eponymous_band_categories_-_W" data-mw-thread-id="h-Eponymous_band_categories_-_W-July_5-2007-07-05T21:10:00.000Z">Eponymous band categories - W</h4>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_July_5&action=edit&section=4" title="Edit section: Eponymous band categories - W">edit</a>]</div> <div class="boilerplate vfd" style="background:#bff9fc; margin:0 auto; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #AAAAAA;"> <dl><dd>The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Deletion_review" title="Wikipedia:Deletion review">deletion review</a>). No further edits should be made to this section.</dd></dl> <dl><dd>The result of the discussion was: delete except for the zombie</dd> <dd><a href="/w/index.php?title=Category:W.A.S.P.&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category:W.A.S.P. (page does not exist)">Category:W.A.S.P.</a> (<a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Category:W.A.S.P.&action=edit">edit</a> | <a href="/w/index.php?title=Category_talk:W.A.S.P.&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category talk:W.A.S.P. (page does not exist)">talk</a> | <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Category:W.A.S.P.&action=history">history</a> | <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Whatlinkshere/:Category:W.A.S.P.">links</a> | <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Category:W.A.S.P.&action=watch">watch</a> | <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Log&page=%3ACategory%3AW.A.S.P.">logs</a>) </dd> <dd><a href="/w/index.php?title=Category:The_Waboritas&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category:The Waboritas (page does not exist)">Category:The Waboritas</a> (<a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Category:The_Waboritas&action=edit">edit</a> | <a href="/w/index.php?title=Category_talk:The_Waboritas&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category talk:The Waboritas (page does not exist)">talk</a> | <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Category:The_Waboritas&action=history">history</a> | <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Whatlinkshere/:Category:The_Waboritas">links</a> | <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Category:The_Waboritas&action=watch">watch</a> | <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Log&page=%3ACategory%3AThe+Waboritas">logs</a>) </dd> <dd><a href="/wiki/Category:Warrant_(American_band)" title="Category:Warrant (American band)">Category:Warrant (American band)</a> (<a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Category:Warrant_(American_band)&action=edit">edit</a> | <a href="/wiki/Category_talk:Warrant_(American_band)" title="Category talk:Warrant (American band)">talk</a> | <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Category:Warrant_(American_band)&action=history">history</a> | <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Whatlinkshere/:Category:Warrant_(American_band)">links</a> | <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Category:Warrant_(American_band)&action=watch">watch</a> | <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Log&page=%3ACategory%3AWarrant+%28American+band%29">logs</a>) </dd> <dd><a href="/wiki/Category:The_Waterboys" title="Category:The Waterboys">Category:The Waterboys</a> (<a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Category:The_Waterboys&action=edit">edit</a> | <a href="/wiki/Category_talk:The_Waterboys" title="Category talk:The Waterboys">talk</a> | <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Category:The_Waterboys&action=history">history</a> | <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Whatlinkshere/:Category:The_Waterboys">links</a> | <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Category:The_Waterboys&action=watch">watch</a> | <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Log&page=%3ACategory%3AThe+Waterboys">logs</a>) </dd> <dd><a href="/w/index.php?title=Category:The_Wedding_Present&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category:The Wedding Present (page does not exist)">Category:The Wedding Present</a> (<a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Category:The_Wedding_Present&action=edit">edit</a> | <a href="/w/index.php?title=Category_talk:The_Wedding_Present&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category talk:The Wedding Present (page does not exist)">talk</a> | <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Category:The_Wedding_Present&action=history">history</a> | <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Whatlinkshere/:Category:The_Wedding_Present">links</a> | <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Category:The_Wedding_Present&action=watch">watch</a> | <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Log&page=%3ACategory%3AThe+Wedding+Present">logs</a>) </dd> <dd><a href="/wiki/Category:Westlife" title="Category:Westlife">Category:Westlife</a> (<a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Category:Westlife&action=edit">edit</a> | <a href="/wiki/Category_talk:Westlife" title="Category talk:Westlife">talk</a> | <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Category:Westlife&action=history">history</a> | <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Whatlinkshere/:Category:Westlife">links</a> | <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Category:Westlife&action=watch">watch</a> | <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Log&page=%3ACategory%3AWestlife">logs</a>) </dd> <dd><a href="/w/index.php?title=Category:Wham!&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category:Wham! (page does not exist)">Category:Wham!</a> (<a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Category:Wham!&action=edit">edit</a> | <a href="/w/index.php?title=Category_talk:Wham!&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category talk:Wham! (page does not exist)">talk</a> | <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Category:Wham!&action=history">history</a> | <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Whatlinkshere/:Category:Wham!">links</a> | <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Category:Wham!&action=watch">watch</a> | <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Log&page=%3ACategory%3AWham%21">logs</a>) </dd> <dd><a href="/w/index.php?title=Category:What_Is_This%3F&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category:What Is This? (page does not exist)">Category:What Is This?</a> (<a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Category:What_Is_This%3F&action=edit">edit</a> | <a href="/w/index.php?title=Category_talk:What_Is_This%3F&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category talk:What Is This? (page does not exist)">talk</a> | <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Category:What_Is_This%3F&action=history">history</a> | <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Whatlinkshere/:Category:What_Is_This%3F">links</a> | <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Category:What_Is_This%3F&action=watch">watch</a> | <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Log&page=%3ACategory%3AWhat+Is+This%3F">logs</a>) </dd> <dd><a href="/w/index.php?title=Category:White_Lion&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category:White Lion (page does not exist)">Category:White Lion</a> (<a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Category:White_Lion&action=edit">edit</a> | <a href="/w/index.php?title=Category_talk:White_Lion&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category talk:White Lion (page does not exist)">talk</a> | <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Category:White_Lion&action=history">history</a> | <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Whatlinkshere/:Category:White_Lion">links</a> | <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Category:White_Lion&action=watch">watch</a> | <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Log&page=%3ACategory%3AWhite+Lion">logs</a>) </dd> <dd><a href="/w/index.php?title=Category:White_Tiger_(band)&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category:White Tiger (band) (page does not exist)">Category:White Tiger (band)</a> (<a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Category:White_Tiger_(band)&action=edit">edit</a> | <a href="/w/index.php?title=Category_talk:White_Tiger_(band)&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category talk:White Tiger (band) (page does not exist)">talk</a> | <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Category:White_Tiger_(band)&action=history">history</a> | <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Whatlinkshere/:Category:White_Tiger_(band)">links</a> | <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Category:White_Tiger_(band)&action=watch">watch</a> | <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Log&page=%3ACategory%3AWhite+Tiger+%28band%29">logs</a>) </dd> <dd><a href="/wiki/Category:White_Zombie" title="Category:White Zombie">Category:White Zombie</a> (<a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Category:White_Zombie&action=edit">edit</a> | <a href="/w/index.php?title=Category_talk:White_Zombie&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category talk:White Zombie (page does not exist)">talk</a> | <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Category:White_Zombie&action=history">history</a> | <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Whatlinkshere/:Category:White_Zombie">links</a> | <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Category:White_Zombie&action=watch">watch</a> | <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Log&page=%3ACategory%3AWhite+Zombie">logs</a>) </dd> <dd><a href="/w/index.php?title=Category:Barry_White&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category:Barry White (page does not exist)">Category:Barry White</a> (<a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Category:Barry_White&action=edit">edit</a> | <a href="/w/index.php?title=Category_talk:Barry_White&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category talk:Barry White (page does not exist)">talk</a> | <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Category:Barry_White&action=history">history</a> | <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Whatlinkshere/:Category:Barry_White">links</a> | <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Category:Barry_White&action=watch">watch</a> | <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Log&page=%3ACategory%3ABarry+White">logs</a>) </dd> <dd><a href="/wiki/Category:Whitesnake" title="Category:Whitesnake">Category:Whitesnake</a> (<a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Category:Whitesnake&action=edit">edit</a> | <a href="/wiki/Category_talk:Whitesnake" title="Category talk:Whitesnake">talk</a> | <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Category:Whitesnake&action=history">history</a> | <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Whatlinkshere/:Category:Whitesnake">links</a> | <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Category:Whitesnake&action=watch">watch</a> | <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Log&page=%3ACategory%3AWhitesnake">logs</a>) </dd> <dd><a href="/wiki/Category:The_Wiggles" title="Category:The Wiggles">Category:The Wiggles</a> (<a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Category:The_Wiggles&action=edit">edit</a> | <a href="/wiki/Category_talk:The_Wiggles" title="Category talk:The Wiggles">talk</a> | <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Category:The_Wiggles&action=history">history</a> | <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Whatlinkshere/:Category:The_Wiggles">links</a> | <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Category:The_Wiggles&action=watch">watch</a> | <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Log&page=%3ACategory%3AThe+Wiggles">logs</a>) </dd> <dd><a href="/w/index.php?title=Category:Wild_Horses_(American_band)&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category:Wild Horses (American band) (page does not exist)">Category:Wild Horses (American band)</a> (<a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Category:Wild_Horses_(American_band)&action=edit">edit</a> | <a href="/w/index.php?title=Category_talk:Wild_Horses_(American_band)&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category talk:Wild Horses (American band) (page does not exist)">talk</a> | <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Category:Wild_Horses_(American_band)&action=history">history</a> | <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Whatlinkshere/:Category:Wild_Horses_(American_band)">links</a> | <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Category:Wild_Horses_(American_band)&action=watch">watch</a> | <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Log&page=%3ACategory%3AWild+Horses+%28American+band%29">logs</a>) </dd> <dd><a href="/w/index.php?title=Category:Wild_Horses_(British_band)&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category:Wild Horses (British band) (page does not exist)">Category:Wild Horses (British band)</a> (<a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Category:Wild_Horses_(British_band)&action=edit">edit</a> | <a href="/w/index.php?title=Category_talk:Wild_Horses_(British_band)&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category talk:Wild Horses (British band) (page does not exist)">talk</a> | <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Category:Wild_Horses_(British_band)&action=history">history</a> | <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Whatlinkshere/:Category:Wild_Horses_(British_band)">links</a> | <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Category:Wild_Horses_(British_band)&action=watch">watch</a> | <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Log&page=%3ACategory%3AWild+Horses+%28British+band%29">logs</a>) </dd> <dd><a href="/wiki/Category:Robbie_Williams" title="Category:Robbie Williams">Category:Robbie Williams</a> (<a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Category:Robbie_Williams&action=edit">edit</a> | <a href="/wiki/Category_talk:Robbie_Williams" title="Category talk:Robbie Williams">talk</a> | <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Category:Robbie_Williams&action=history">history</a> | <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Whatlinkshere/:Category:Robbie_Williams">links</a> | <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Category:Robbie_Williams&action=watch">watch</a> | <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Log&page=%3ACategory%3ARobbie+Williams">logs</a>) </dd> <dd><a href="/wiki/Category:Stevie_Wonder" title="Category:Stevie Wonder">Category:Stevie Wonder</a> (<a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Category:Stevie_Wonder&action=edit">edit</a> | <a href="/wiki/Category_talk:Stevie_Wonder" title="Category talk:Stevie Wonder">talk</a> | <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Category:Stevie_Wonder&action=history">history</a> | <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Whatlinkshere/:Category:Stevie_Wonder">links</a> | <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Category:Stevie_Wonder&action=watch">watch</a> | <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Log&page=%3ACategory%3AStevie+Wonder">logs</a>) </dd> <dd>Nominator's rationale: Delete all - <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:OC" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:OC">Eponymous overcategorization</a>. Pursuant to <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_June_29#Categories_named_after_musicians_-_A" title="Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2007 June 29">June 29 discussion</a>, these categories consist of nothing but subcategories for albums and songs, in some cases members, and the article for the band and rarely a discography or similar article. Categories are not needed. <a href="/wiki/User:Otto4711" title="User:Otto4711">Otto4711</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_July_5#c-Otto4711-2007-07-05T21:10:00.000Z-Eponymous_band_categories_-_W" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:10, 5 July 2007 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl> <ul><li>Keep all those with at least two subcategories, as those subcategories should be readily accessible in one place to facilitate navigation. <a href="/wiki/User:Nathanian" title="User:Nathanian">Nathanian</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_July_5#c-Nathanian-2007-07-05T23:45:00.000Z-Eponymous_band_categories_-_W" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:45, 5 July 2007 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li></ul> <dl><dd><ul><li>As has been clearly established by what must by now be deletions in the hundreds, having the subcategories does not warrant the category. Close to 100 categories for TV shows have been deleted despite having character and episode subcats. Dozens of musician categories have been deleted despite having album and song subcats. The subcategories are properly categorized in album by artist, song by artist and member by band category structures and the material within them is reachable through the artist's article. Simplisticly counting subcats in no way addresses <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:OC" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:OC">WP:OC</a> and, had you reviewed the links in the nomination, you would have seen that having the subcats has been raised and was not deemed reason enough for the categories. <a href="/wiki/User:Otto4711" title="User:Otto4711">Otto4711</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_July_5#c-Otto4711-2007-07-06T00:01:00.000Z-Nathanian-2007-07-05T23:45:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:01, 6 July 2007 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li></ul></dd></dl> <ul><li>Delete per nom & ample precedent. <a href="/wiki/User:Carlossuarez46" title="User:Carlossuarez46">Carlossuarez46</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_July_5#c-Carlossuarez46-2007-07-06T00:20:00.000Z-Eponymous_band_categories_-_W" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:20, 6 July 2007 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li> <li>Delete unless there are articles other than just albums, songs, discographies, band members and the band itself As above most bands simply don't need their own eponymous category. The main article for the band serves sufficiently as a navigational hub for all the subcategories and articles. Delete all these unless we're overlooking one that has something other than songs, albums, discographies, band members and the band itself in the category. If there is such a case, though, I'd suggest taking a closer look at that particular category as a separate case. <a href="/wiki/User:Dugwiki" title="User:Dugwiki">Dugwiki</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_July_5#c-Dugwiki-2007-07-06T14:57:00.000Z-Eponymous_band_categories_-_W" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">14:57, 6 July 2007 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li> <li>Delete all except: <a href="/wiki/Category:White_Zombie" title="Category:White Zombie">Category:White Zombie</a>, which needs further study. All of the rest, except two, contain no more than two articles (artist and discography) and the three standard subcategories (members, albums and songs), none of which calls for an eponymous category. The two exceptions are <a href="/wiki/Category:The_Wiggles" title="Category:The Wiggles">Category:The Wiggles</a> and <a href="/wiki/Category:Robbie_Williams" title="Category:Robbie Williams">Category:Robbie Williams</a>, which each contain songwriter articles. These, IMO, could easily be put in the members category, but even if that's not considered appropriate, there is more than sufficient linkage between the articles. The White Zombie category, on the other hand, contains numerous articles about individuals who do not seem to also appear in the members subcategory, and I haven't investigated beyond that, so I simply offer no opinion on the category at this time. <a href="/wiki/User:Xtifr" title="User:Xtifr">Xtifr</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Xtifr" title="User talk:Xtifr">tälk</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_July_5#c-Xtifr-2007-07-09T06:35:00.000Z-Eponymous_band_categories_-_W" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">06:35, 9 July 2007 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li></ul> <hr/> <dl><dd>The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Deletion_review" title="Wikipedia:Deletion review">deletion review</a>). No further edits should be made to this section.</dd></dl></div> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading4"><h4 id="Category:Buses_in_Hong_Kong" data-mw-thread-id="h-Category:Buses_in_Hong_Kong-July_5-2007-07-05T20:46:00.000Z">Category:Buses in Hong Kong</h4>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_July_5&action=edit&section=5" title="Edit section: Category:Buses in Hong Kong">edit</a>]</div> <div class="boilerplate vfd" style="background:#bff9fc; margin:0 auto; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #AAAAAA;"> <dl><dd>The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Deletion_review" title="Wikipedia:Deletion review">deletion review</a>). No further edits should be made to this section.</dd></dl> <dl><dd>The result of the discussion was: rename. <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Radiant!" title="User talk:Radiant!">>Radiant<</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_July_5#c-Radiant!-2007-07-10T13:32:00.000Z-Category:Buses_in_Hong_Kong" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">13:32, 10 July 2007 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd> <dd>Propose renaming <a href="/w/index.php?title=Category:Buses_in_Hong_Kong&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category:Buses in Hong Kong (page does not exist)">Category:Buses in Hong Kong</a> to <a href="/wiki/Category:Bus_transport_in_Hong_Kong" title="Category:Bus transport in Hong Kong">Category:Bus transport in Hong Kong</a></dd> <dd>Nominator's rationale: Rename. To match form for other by country categories. <a href="/wiki/User:Vegaswikian" title="User:Vegaswikian">Vegaswikian</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_July_5#c-Vegaswikian-2007-07-05T20:46:00.000Z-Category:Buses_in_Hong_Kong" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:46, 5 July 2007 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl> <hr/> <dl><dd>The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Deletion_review" title="Wikipedia:Deletion review">deletion review</a>). No further edits should be made to this section.</dd></dl></div> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading4"><h4 id="Category:Bus_companies" data-mw-thread-id="h-Category:Bus_companies-July_5-2007-07-05T20:38:00.000Z">Category:Bus companies</h4>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_July_5&action=edit&section=6" title="Edit section: Category:Bus companies">edit</a>]</div> <div class="boilerplate vfd" style="background:#bff9fc; margin:0 auto; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #AAAAAA;"> <dl><dd>The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Deletion_review" title="Wikipedia:Deletion review">deletion review</a>). No further edits should be made to this section.</dd></dl> <dl><dd>The result of the discussion was: rename. <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Radiant!" title="User talk:Radiant!">>Radiant<</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_July_5#c-Radiant!-2007-07-10T13:32:00.000Z-Category:Bus_companies" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">13:32, 10 July 2007 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd> <dd>Propose renaming <a href="/w/index.php?title=Category:Bus_companies&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category:Bus companies (page does not exist)">Category:Bus companies</a> to <a href="/wiki/Category:Bus_operating_companies" title="Category:Bus operating companies">Category:Bus operating companies</a></dd> <dd>Nominator's rationale: Rename. The current title is unclear as to content. Is it operators or manufactures or rebuilders or whatever? <a href="/wiki/User:Vegaswikian" title="User:Vegaswikian">Vegaswikian</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_July_5#c-Vegaswikian-2007-07-05T20:38:00.000Z-Category:Bus_companies" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:38, 5 July 2007 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl> <ul><li>Rename per nom. "Bus company" is an extremely vague term. <a href="/wiki/User:Szyslak" title="User:Szyslak">szyslak</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_July_5#c-Szyslak-2007-07-07T08:53:00.000Z-Category:Bus_companies" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">08:53, 7 July 2007 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li></ul> <hr/> <dl><dd>The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Deletion_review" title="Wikipedia:Deletion review">deletion review</a>). No further edits should be made to this section.</dd></dl></div> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading4"><h4 id="Category:Fictional_characters_with_eidetic_memory" data-mw-thread-id="h-Category:Fictional_characters_with_eidetic_memory-July_5-2007-07-05T19:28:00.000Z">Category:Fictional characters with eidetic memory</h4>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_July_5&action=edit&section=7" title="Edit section: Category:Fictional characters with eidetic memory">edit</a>]</div> <div class="boilerplate vfd" style="background:#bff9fc; margin:0 auto; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #AAAAAA;"> <dl><dd>The following discussion is an archived debate regarding the category or categories above. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Deletion_review" title="Wikipedia:Deletion review">deletion review</a>). No further edits should be made to this section.</dd></dl> The result of the debate was keep. <a href="/wiki/User:Andrew_c" title="User:Andrew c">Andrew c</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Andrew_c" title="User talk:Andrew c">[talk]</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_July_5#c-Andrew_c-2007-07-10T16:31:00.000Z-Category:Fictional_characters_with_eidetic_memory" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:31, 10 July 2007 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd><a href="/wiki/Category:Fictional_characters_with_eidetic_memory" title="Category:Fictional characters with eidetic memory">Category:Fictional characters with eidetic memory</a> (<a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Category:Fictional_characters_with_eidetic_memory&action=edit">edit</a> | <a href="/wiki/Category_talk:Fictional_characters_with_eidetic_memory" title="Category talk:Fictional characters with eidetic memory">talk</a> | <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Category:Fictional_characters_with_eidetic_memory&action=history">history</a> | <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Whatlinkshere/:Category:Fictional_characters_with_eidetic_memory">links</a> | <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Category:Fictional_characters_with_eidetic_memory&action=watch">watch</a> | <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Log&page=%3ACategory%3AFictional+characters+with+eidetic+memory">logs</a>) </dd> <dd>Nominator's rationale: No clear criteria for inclusion; entries that I recognize on here are there because of <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:OR" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:OR">WP:OR</a> -- no <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:RS" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:RS">WP:RS</a> identifies characters as having eidetic memory, rather an editor's conclusion. <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:EEMeltonIV&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:EEMeltonIV (page does not exist)">EEMeltonIV</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_July_5#c-EEMeltonIV-2007-07-05T19:28:00.000Z-Andrew_c-2007-07-10T16:31:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:28, 5 July 2007 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd> <dd>Strong Keep, this category has already been <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_April_17#Category:Fictional_characters_with_an_eidetic_memory" title="Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2007 April 17">put up for deletion</a> and was subsequently kept. I'll repeat here what I said then, eidetic memory is often an important and defining characteristic for many characters currently in the category. --<a href="/wiki/User:Philip_Stevens" title="User:Philip Stevens">Philip Stevens</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_July_5#c-Philip_Stevens-2007-07-05T21:25:00.000Z-Andrew_c-2007-07-10T16:31:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:25, 5 July 2007 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Comment - How does this category/grouping differentiate between characters whose eidetic memory is a defining characteristic and those for whom it is not? --<a href="/w/index.php?title=User:EEMeltonIV&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:EEMeltonIV (page does not exist)">EEMeltonIV</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_July_5#c-EEMeltonIV-2007-07-06T01:17:00.000Z-Philip_Stevens-2007-07-05T21:25:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:17, 6 July 2007 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd> <dd>Strong Keep, per <a href="/wiki/User:Philip_Stevens" title="User:Philip Stevens">Philip Stevens</a>. Category should be kept, and characters who don't have eidetic memory as their defining attribute should be removed. --<a href="/wiki/User:Piemanmoo" title="User:Piemanmoo">Piemanmoo</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_July_5#c-Piemanmoo-2007-07-06T22:35:00.000Z-Andrew_c-2007-07-10T16:31:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:35, 6 July 2007 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd> <dd>Keep as defining. Inclusion criterion can be simple: Characters explicitly identified in their source material as having eidetic memory. Period. <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Wryspy&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Wryspy (page does not exist)">Wryspy</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_July_5#c-Wryspy-2007-07-08T16:43:00.000Z-Andrew_c-2007-07-10T16:31:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:43, 8 July 2007 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd> <dd>The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Deletion_review" title="Wikipedia:Deletion review">deletion review</a>). No further edits should be made to this section.</dd></dl></div> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading4"><h4 id="Category:Early_(pre-1914)_Association_Football_players" data-mw-thread-id="h-Category:Early_(pre-1914)_Association_Football_players-July_5-2007-07-05T17:49:00.000Z">Category:Early (pre-1914) Association Football players</h4>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_July_5&action=edit&section=8" title="Edit section: Category:Early (pre-1914) Association Football players">edit</a>]</div> <div class="boilerplate vfd" style="background:#bff9fc; margin:0 auto; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #AAAAAA;"> <dl><dd>The following discussion is an archived debate regarding the category or categories above. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Deletion_review" title="Wikipedia:Deletion review">deletion review</a>). No further edits should be made to this section.</dd></dl> The result of the debate was found renamed as nominated --<a href="/wiki/User:Kbdank71" title="User:Kbdank71">Kbdank71</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_July_5#c-Kbdank71-2007-07-11T14:05:00.000Z-Category:Early_(pre-1914)_Association_Football_players" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">14:05, 11 July 2007 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Propose renaming <a href="/w/index.php?title=Category:Early_(pre-1914)_Association_Football_players&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category:Early (pre-1914) Association Football players (page does not exist)">Category:Early (pre-1914) Association Football players</a> to <a href="/w/index.php?title=Category:Pre-1914_Association_Football_players&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category:Pre-1914 Association Football players (page does not exist)">Category:Pre-1914 Association Football players</a></dd> <dd>Nominator's rationale: Rename "Early" is redundant. <a href="/wiki/User:%C3%86thelwold" class="mw-redirect" title="User:Æthelwold">Æthelwold</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_July_5#c-Æthelwold-2007-07-05T17:49:00.000Z-Kbdank71-2007-07-11T14:05:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:49, 5 July 2007 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl> <ul><li>Delete, the 1914 cutoff point appears to be arbitrary. <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Radiant!" title="User talk:Radiant!">>Radiant<</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_July_5#c-Radiant!-2007-07-10T13:32:00.000Z-Kbdank71-2007-07-11T14:05:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">13:32, 10 July 2007 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li></ul> <dl><dd>The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Deletion_review" title="Wikipedia:Deletion review">deletion review</a>). No further edits should be made to this section.</dd></dl></div> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading4"><h4 id="Category:Films_about_coal_mining" data-mw-thread-id="h-Category:Films_about_coal_mining-July_5-2007-07-05T15:58:00.000Z">Category:Films about coal mining</h4>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_July_5&action=edit&section=9" title="Edit section: Category:Films about coal mining">edit</a>]</div> <div class="boilerplate vfd" style="background:#bff9fc; margin:0 auto; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #AAAAAA;"> <dl><dd>The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Deletion_review" title="Wikipedia:Deletion review">deletion review</a>). No further edits should be made to this section.</dd></dl> <dl><dd>The result of the discussion was: delete. Same idea as the next two noms. <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Radiant!" title="User talk:Radiant!">>Radiant<</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_July_5#c-Radiant!-2007-07-10T13:32:00.000Z-Category:Films_about_coal_mining" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">13:32, 10 July 2007 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd> <dd><a href="/w/index.php?title=Category:Films_about_coal_mining&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category:Films about coal mining (page does not exist)">Category:Films about coal mining</a> (<a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Category:Films_about_coal_mining&action=edit">edit</a> | <a href="/w/index.php?title=Category_talk:Films_about_coal_mining&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category talk:Films about coal mining (page does not exist)">talk</a> | <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Category:Films_about_coal_mining&action=history">history</a> | <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Whatlinkshere/:Category:Films_about_coal_mining">links</a> | <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Category:Films_about_coal_mining&action=watch">watch</a> | <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Log&page=%3ACategory%3AFilms+about+coal+mining">logs</a>) </dd> <dd>Nominator's rationale: Documentaries about coal-mining, maybe. But Films? Since when was <a href="/wiki/October_Sky" title="October Sky">October Sky</a> about coal-mining? Extreme <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:OCAT" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:OCAT">WP:OCAT</a> <a href="/wiki/User:Bulldog123" title="User:Bulldog123">Bulldog123</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_July_5#c-Bulldog123-2007-07-05T15:58:00.000Z-Category:Films_about_coal_mining" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:58, 5 July 2007 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl> <ul><li>Delete - These types of "films about" categories do not work. The problem is that films discuss multiple subjects or that some subjects are only discussed peripherally. This leads to a problem where the category either includes any film that mentions the subject, in which case the category does not really identify the subject matter of the film very well or bring together related films, or it is used just for films where the subject is "important", in which case it suffers from subjective inclusion problems that render it useless for categorization. In this case, the category brings together any film that even peripherally mentions coal mining. (Even <a href="/wiki/Billy_Elliot" title="Billy Elliot">Billy Elliot</a> is in this category, although at least <a href="/wiki/Zoolander" title="Zoolander">Zoolander</a> is not included.) It should be deleted. <a href="/wiki/User:Dr._Submillimeter" title="User:Dr. Submillimeter">Dr. Submillimeter</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_July_5#c-Dr._Submillimeter-2007-07-05T16:07:00.000Z-Category:Films_about_coal_mining" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:07, 5 July 2007 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li> <li>Keep Useful intersection of <a href="/wiki/Category:Films" title="Category:Films">category:Films</a> and <a href="/wiki/Category:Coal_mining" title="Category:Coal mining">Category:Coal mining</a>. If this is deleted, are the films supposed to be added back to the latter? If they are, and the number grows (as it could), it will need to be tidied up by creating a category for... films about coal mining. So all that should be done is that any inappropriate articles should be removed. <a href="/wiki/User:Nathanian" title="User:Nathanian">Nathanian</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_July_5#c-Nathanian-2007-07-05T23:49:00.000Z-Category:Films_about_coal_mining" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:49, 5 July 2007 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <ul><li>Are these films about coal mining or does the plot involve coal mining? I think the latter is the case for most of the entries in the category. So their relationship to coal mining is tenuous at best. I suggest that we consider this to be films actually about the subject. Maybe as <a href="/wiki/User:Bulldog123" title="User:Bulldog123">Bulldog123</a> suggests, rename and limit this category and all similar ones to documentaries and rename as required. Right now I'm leaning delete but open to a rename with some specificity from a new name. <a href="/wiki/User:Vegaswikian" title="User:Vegaswikian">Vegaswikian</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_July_5#c-Vegaswikian-2007-07-06T00:18:00.000Z-Nathanian-2007-07-05T23:49:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:18, 6 July 2007 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li> <li>Comment - <a href="/wiki/User:Nathanian" title="User:Nathanian">Nathanian</a> states that this is a useful intersection of <a href="/wiki/Category:Films" title="Category:Films">Category:Films</a> and <a href="/wiki/Category:Coal_mining" title="Category:Coal mining">Category:Coal mining</a>. I cannot believe that some of these films (<a href="/wiki/Billy_Elliot" title="Billy Elliot">Billy Elliot</a>) would be placed in <a href="/wiki/Category:Coal_mining" title="Category:Coal mining">Category:Coal mining</a> in the first place. I would support a category limited to documentaries about coal mining, but I would recommend deleting the "films" category and starting over rather than renaming this "films" category. <a href="/wiki/User:Dr._Submillimeter" title="User:Dr. Submillimeter">Dr. Submillimeter</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_July_5#c-Dr._Submillimeter-2007-07-06T07:37:00.000Z-Nathanian-2007-07-05T23:49:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">07:37, 6 July 2007 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li></ul></li> <li>Delete per nom & because of the inherent problems with "films about": how "about" the subject must the film be, and what reliable sources have to tell us that that is what the film is really "about"? <a href="/wiki/User:Carlossuarez46" title="User:Carlossuarez46">Carlossuarez46</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_July_5#c-Carlossuarez46-2007-07-06T00:23:00.000Z-Category:Films_about_coal_mining" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:23, 6 July 2007 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li></ul> <hr/> <dl><dd>The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Deletion_review" title="Wikipedia:Deletion review">deletion review</a>). No further edits should be made to this section.</dd></dl></div> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading4"><h4 id="Category:Films_about_cooking" data-mw-thread-id="h-Category:Films_about_cooking-July_5-2007-07-05T15:55:00.000Z">Category:Films about cooking</h4>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_July_5&action=edit&section=10" title="Edit section: Category:Films about cooking">edit</a>]</div> <div class="boilerplate vfd" style="background:#bff9fc; margin:0 auto; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #AAAAAA;"> <dl><dd>The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Deletion_review" title="Wikipedia:Deletion review">deletion review</a>). No further edits should be made to this section.</dd></dl> <dl><dd>The result of the discussion was: delete. <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Radiant!" title="User talk:Radiant!">>Radiant<</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_July_5#c-Radiant!-2007-07-10T13:32:00.000Z-Category:Films_about_cooking" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">13:32, 10 July 2007 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd> <dd><a href="/w/index.php?title=Category:Films_about_cooking&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category:Films about cooking (page does not exist)">Category:Films about cooking</a> (<a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Category:Films_about_cooking&action=edit">edit</a> | <a href="/w/index.php?title=Category_talk:Films_about_cooking&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category talk:Films about cooking (page does not exist)">talk</a> | <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Category:Films_about_cooking&action=history">history</a> | <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Whatlinkshere/:Category:Films_about_cooking">links</a> | <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Category:Films_about_cooking&action=watch">watch</a> | <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Log&page=%3ACategory%3AFilms+about+cooking">logs</a>) </dd> <dd>Nominator's rationale: If anyone actually believes that <a href="/wiki/Chocolat" class="mw-disambig" title="Chocolat">Chocolat</a> and <a href="/wiki/Fried_Green_Tomatoes" title="Fried Green Tomatoes">Fried Green Tomatoes</a> are about cooking, we have a seriously problem. And aside from that, categorizing films by what they are loosely about is simply <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:OCAT" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:OCAT">WP:OCAT</a>. The categories would be endless. <a href="/wiki/User:Bulldog123" title="User:Bulldog123">Bulldog123</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_July_5#c-Bulldog123-2007-07-05T15:55:00.000Z-Category:Films_about_cooking" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:55, 5 July 2007 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl> <ul><li>Delete - These types of "films about" categories do not work. The problem is that films discuss multiple subjects or that some subjects are only discussed peripherally. This leads to a problem where the category either includes any film that mentions the subject, in which case the category does not really identify the subject matter of the film very well or bring together related films, or it is used just for films where the subject is "important", in which case it suffers from subjective inclusion problems that render it useless for categorization. This category therefore should be deleted. <a href="/wiki/User:Dr._Submillimeter" title="User:Dr. Submillimeter">Dr. Submillimeter</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_July_5#c-Dr._Submillimeter-2007-07-05T16:08:00.000Z-Category:Films_about_cooking" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:08, 5 July 2007 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li> <li>Keep See comments on the previous listing. Also, there is no reason why films should not be included in several such categories if appropriate. <a href="/wiki/User:Nathanian" title="User:Nathanian">Nathanian</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_July_5#c-Nathanian-2007-07-05T23:50:00.000Z-Category:Films_about_cooking" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:50, 5 July 2007 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li> <li>Delete per nom & see comments on previous listing. <a href="/wiki/User:Carlossuarez46" title="User:Carlossuarez46">Carlossuarez46</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_July_5#c-Carlossuarez46-2007-07-06T00:24:00.000Z-Category:Films_about_cooking" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:24, 6 July 2007 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li> <li>Delete per all the other vague film "about" categories. <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Wryspy&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Wryspy (page does not exist)">Wryspy</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_July_5#c-Wryspy-2007-07-08T16:44:00.000Z-Category:Films_about_cooking" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:44, 8 July 2007 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li></ul> <hr/> <dl><dd>The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Deletion_review" title="Wikipedia:Deletion review">deletion review</a>). No further edits should be made to this section.</dd></dl></div> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading4"><h4 id="Category:Occupation_films" data-mw-thread-id="h-Category:Occupation_films-July_5-2007-07-05T15:21:00.000Z">Category:Occupation films</h4>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_July_5&action=edit&section=11" title="Edit section: Category:Occupation films">edit</a>]</div> <div class="boilerplate vfd" style="background:#bff9fc; margin:0 auto; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #AAAAAA;"> <dl><dd>The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Deletion_review" title="Wikipedia:Deletion review">deletion review</a>). No further edits should be made to this section.</dd></dl> <dl><dd>The result of the discussion was: delete. <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Radiant!" title="User talk:Radiant!">>Radiant<</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_July_5#c-Radiant!-2007-07-10T13:32:00.000Z-Category:Occupation_films" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">13:32, 10 July 2007 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd> <dd><a href="/w/index.php?title=Category:Occupation_films&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category:Occupation films (page does not exist)">Category:Occupation films</a> (<a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Category:Occupation_films&action=edit">edit</a> | <a href="/w/index.php?title=Category_talk:Occupation_films&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category talk:Occupation films (page does not exist)">talk</a> | <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Category:Occupation_films&action=history">history</a> | <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Whatlinkshere/:Category:Occupation_films">links</a> | <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Category:Occupation_films&action=watch">watch</a> | <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Log&page=%3ACategory%3AOccupation+films">logs</a>) </dd> <dd>Nominator's rationale: Delete (though not the three subcategories). Hopelessly vague inclusion criteria; I'm all ears if someone can tell me what Top Gun, Office Space and Almost Famous have in common. <a href="/wiki/User:PC78" title="User:PC78">PC78</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_July_5#c-PC78-2007-07-05T15:21:00.000Z-Category:Occupation_films" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:21, 5 July 2007 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl> <ul><li>Delete Haven't heard of "occupation film" as an entity anyway. <a href="/wiki/User:Bulldog123" title="User:Bulldog123">Bulldog123</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_July_5#c-Bulldog123-2007-07-05T15:50:00.000Z-Category:Occupation_films" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:50, 5 July 2007 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li> <li>Keep but only use as a holdall for suitable subcategories. Remove articles and add a notice that the category should only contain subcategories. <a href="/wiki/User:%C3%86thelwold" class="mw-redirect" title="User:Æthelwold">Æthelwold</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_July_5#c-Æthelwold-2007-07-05T17:51:00.000Z-Category:Occupation_films" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:51, 5 July 2007 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li> <li>Delete - The name is ambiguous. Could refer to films about various occupations (which I gather it does), films about military or other occupations, films made while the filmmaker is under such an occupation, and so on. <a href="/wiki/Category:Films_by_topic" title="Category:Films by topic">Category:Films by topic</a> serves as an appropriate container category; this one is not needed. <a href="/wiki/User:Otto4711" title="User:Otto4711">Otto4711</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_July_5#c-Otto4711-2007-07-05T18:37:00.000Z-Category:Occupation_films" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:37, 5 July 2007 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li> <li>Delete this is about the worst film cat yet: I was expecting films about an occupation (in the sense of France early 1940s), but nooooo; this is about any film where a character has a job! Brilliant, unless the movie has characters limited to the unemployed, retired, or idle rich, it fits here somehow. Which is truly OCAT and not meaningful or defining. <a href="/wiki/User:Carlossuarez46" title="User:Carlossuarez46">Carlossuarez46</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_July_5#c-Carlossuarez46-2007-07-06T00:27:00.000Z-Category:Occupation_films" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:27, 6 July 2007 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li> <li>Delete overcategory. <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Wryspy&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Wryspy (page does not exist)">Wryspy</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_July_5#c-Wryspy-2007-07-08T16:46:00.000Z-Category:Occupation_films" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:46, 8 July 2007 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li></ul> <hr/> <dl><dd>The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Deletion_review" title="Wikipedia:Deletion review">deletion review</a>). No further edits should be made to this section.</dd></dl></div> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading4"><h4 id="Category:Tottenham_Hotspur_F.C._fans" data-mw-thread-id="h-Category:Tottenham_Hotspur_F.C._fans-July_5-2007-07-05T13:39:00.000Z"><a href="/w/index.php?title=Category:Tottenham_Hotspur_F.C._fans&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category:Tottenham Hotspur F.C. fans (page does not exist)">Category:Tottenham Hotspur F.C. fans</a></h4>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_July_5&action=edit&section=12" title="Edit section: Category:Tottenham Hotspur F.C. fans">edit</a>]</div> <div class="boilerplate vfd" style="background:#bff9fc; margin:0 auto; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #AAAAAA;"> <dl><dd>The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Deletion_review" title="Wikipedia:Deletion review">deletion review</a>). No further edits should be made to this section.</dd></dl> <dl><dd>The result of the discussion was: delete. <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Radiant!" title="User talk:Radiant!">>Radiant<</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_July_5#c-Radiant!-2007-07-10T13:32:00.000Z-Category:Tottenham_Hotspur_F.C._fans" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">13:32, 10 July 2007 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd> <dd><a href="/w/index.php?title=Category:Tottenham_Hotspur_F.C._fans&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category:Tottenham Hotspur F.C. fans (page does not exist)">Category:Tottenham Hotspur F.C. fans</a> (<a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Category:Tottenham_Hotspur_F.C._fans&action=edit">edit</a> | <a href="/w/index.php?title=Category_talk:Tottenham_Hotspur_F.C._fans&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category talk:Tottenham Hotspur F.C. fans (page does not exist)">talk</a> | <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Category:Tottenham_Hotspur_F.C._fans&action=history">history</a> | <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Whatlinkshere/:Category:Tottenham_Hotspur_F.C._fans">links</a> | <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Category:Tottenham_Hotspur_F.C._fans&action=watch">watch</a> | <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Log&page=%3ACategory%3ATottenham+Hotspur+F.C.+fans">logs</a>)</dd></dl> <dl><dd>Delete Just one entry in this, hasn't been populated. Not needed and might as well be deleted. <a href="/wiki/User:Govvy" title="User:Govvy">Govvy</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_July_5#c-Govvy-2007-07-05T13:39:00.000Z-Category:Tottenham_Hotspur_F.C._fans" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">13:39, 5 July 2007 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl> <ul><li>Delete Being a fan of a football club is not a mark of notability. Such categories have been deleted in the past. <a href="/wiki/User:Piccadilly" title="User:Piccadilly">Piccadilly</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_July_5#c-Piccadilly-2007-07-05T14:38:00.000Z-Category:Tottenham_Hotspur_F.C._fans" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">14:38, 5 July 2007 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li></ul> <hr/> <dl><dd>The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Deletion_review" title="Wikipedia:Deletion review">deletion review</a>). No further edits should be made to this section.</dd></dl></div> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading4"><h4 id="Category:Major_Doctor_Who_Villains" data-mw-thread-id="h-Category:Major_Doctor_Who_Villains-July_5-2007-07-05T13:36:00.000Z"><a href="/w/index.php?title=Category:Major_Doctor_Who_Villains&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category:Major Doctor Who Villains (page does not exist)">Category:Major Doctor Who Villains</a></h4>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_July_5&action=edit&section=13" title="Edit section: Category:Major Doctor Who Villains">edit</a>]</div> <div class="boilerplate vfd" style="background:#bff9fc; margin:0 auto; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #AAAAAA;"> <dl><dd>The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Deletion_review" title="Wikipedia:Deletion review">deletion review</a>). No further edits should be made to this section.</dd></dl> <dl><dd>The result of the discussion was: merge per nom. <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Radiant!" title="User talk:Radiant!">>Radiant<</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_July_5#c-Radiant!-2007-07-10T13:32:00.000Z-Category:Major_Doctor_Who_Villains" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">13:32, 10 July 2007 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd> <dd><a href="/w/index.php?title=Category:Major_Doctor_Who_Villains&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category:Major Doctor Who Villains (page does not exist)">Category:Major Doctor Who Villains</a> (<a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Category:Major_Doctor_Who_Villains&action=edit">edit</a> | <a href="/w/index.php?title=Category_talk:Major_Doctor_Who_Villains&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category talk:Major Doctor Who Villains (page does not exist)">talk</a> | <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Category:Major_Doctor_Who_Villains&action=history">history</a> | <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Whatlinkshere/:Category:Major_Doctor_Who_Villains">links</a> | <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Category:Major_Doctor_Who_Villains&action=watch">watch</a> | <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Log&page=%3ACategory%3AMajor+Doctor+Who+Villains">logs</a>)</dd> <dd>Merge into <a href="/wiki/Category:Doctor_Who_characters" title="Category:Doctor Who characters">Category:Doctor Who characters</a>, or at least Rename to <a href="/w/index.php?title=Category:Doctor_Who_villains&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category:Doctor Who villains (page does not exist)">Category:Doctor Who villains</a>. -- <a href="/wiki/User:ProveIt" title="User:ProveIt">Prove It</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:ProveIt" title="User talk:ProveIt">(talk)</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_July_5#c-ProveIt-2007-07-05T13:36:00.000Z-Category:Major_Doctor_Who_Villains" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">13:36, 5 July 2007 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl> <ul><li>Merge per nom and strong consensus against "villain" categories. <a href="/wiki/User:Otto4711" title="User:Otto4711">Otto4711</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_July_5#c-Otto4711-2007-07-05T13:58:00.000Z-Category:Major_Doctor_Who_Villains" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">13:58, 5 July 2007 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li> <li>Keep and recapitalise The Doctor Who categories require subdivision. <a href="/wiki/User:Piccadilly" title="User:Piccadilly">Piccadilly</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_July_5#c-Piccadilly-2007-07-05T14:39:00.000Z-Category:Major_Doctor_Who_Villains" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">14:39, 5 July 2007 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li></ul> <dl><dd><ul><li><a href="/wiki/Category:Doctor_Who_characters" title="Category:Doctor Who characters">Category:Doctor Who characters</a> has 25 articles, 8 of which are lists. The villains category has 10 articles. Subdivision is not required. <a href="/wiki/User:Otto4711" title="User:Otto4711">Otto4711</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_July_5#c-Otto4711-2007-07-05T18:49:00.000Z-Piccadilly-2007-07-05T14:39:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:49, 5 July 2007 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li></ul></dd></dl> <ul><li>Merge - Characters are not divided into "villain" and "hero" subdivisions, as characters may change allegiances over time. <a href="/wiki/User:Dr._Submillimeter" title="User:Dr. Submillimeter">Dr. Submillimeter</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_July_5#c-Dr._Submillimeter-2007-07-05T14:49:00.000Z-Category:Major_Doctor_Who_Villains" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">14:49, 5 July 2007 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li> <li>Merge per <a href="/wiki/User:Dr._Submillimeter" title="User:Dr. Submillimeter">Dr. Submillimeter</a>. <a href="/wiki/User:Casperonline" title="User:Casperonline">Casperonline</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_July_5#c-Casperonline-2007-07-05T15:09:00.000Z-Category:Major_Doctor_Who_Villains" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:09, 5 July 2007 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li> <li>Delete - unnecessary and unwieldy (what's the definition of "major"?). All of these articles are already properly categorized as "Doctor Who races", except for the Master, who's already properly categorized under a subcategory of "Doctor Who characters". --<a href="/wiki/User:Brian_Olsen" title="User:Brian Olsen">Brian Olsen</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_July_5#c-Brian_Olsen-2007-07-05T19:25:00.000Z-Category:Major_Doctor_Who_Villains" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:25, 5 July 2007 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li> <li>Merge Do not delete in case new items are added. <a href="/wiki/User:Nathanian" title="User:Nathanian">Nathanian</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_July_5#c-Nathanian-2007-07-05T23:56:00.000Z-Category:Major_Doctor_Who_Villains" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:56, 5 July 2007 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li> <li>Hang on a minute In fiction whether or not you team up with the heroes occasionally you're either a villain or you're not. It's not hard to define. I think the Major tag should be removed though and the category renamed "Doctor Who Villains."</li> <li>Delete per nom., precedent against villain categories. <a href="/wiki/User:Dr.Who" title="User:Dr.Who">Dr.Who</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_July_5#c-Dr.Who-2007-07-07T20:11:00.000Z-Category:Major_Doctor_Who_Villains" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:11, 7 July 2007 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li> <li>Didn't you here what I just said per nom?</li> <li>Merge into characters category. Very clear precedent against "Major" and "villain" categories.--<a href="/wiki/User:Mike_Selinker" title="User:Mike Selinker">Mike Selinker</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_July_5#c-Mike_Selinker-2007-07-10T04:27:00.000Z-Category:Major_Doctor_Who_Villains" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">04:27, 10 July 2007 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li></ul> <hr/> <dl><dd>The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Deletion_review" title="Wikipedia:Deletion review">deletion review</a>). No further edits should be made to this section.</dd></dl></div> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading4"><h4 id="Category:Youth_Organizations_of_California" data-mw-thread-id="h-Category:Youth_Organizations_of_California-July_5">Category:Youth Organizations of California</h4>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_July_5&action=edit&section=14" title="Edit section: Category:Youth Organizations of California">edit</a>]</div> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading4"><h4 id="Category:Youth_Organizations_of_San_Diego" data-mw-thread-id="h-Category:Youth_Organizations_of_San_Diego-July_5-2007-07-05T13:35:00.000Z">Category:Youth Organizations of San Diego</h4>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_July_5&action=edit&section=15" title="Edit section: Category:Youth Organizations of San Diego">edit</a>]</div> <div class="boilerplate vfd" style="background:#bff9fc; margin:0 auto; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #AAAAAA;"> <dl><dd>The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Deletion_review" title="Wikipedia:Deletion review">deletion review</a>). No further edits should be made to this section.</dd></dl> <dl><dd>The result of the discussion was: rename x2. <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Radiant!" title="User talk:Radiant!">>Radiant<</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_July_5#c-Radiant!-2007-07-10T13:32:00.000Z-Category:Youth_Organizations_of_San_Diego" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">13:32, 10 July 2007 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd> <dd>Propose renaming <a href="/w/index.php?title=Category:Youth_Organizations_of_California&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category:Youth Organizations of California (page does not exist)">Category:Youth Organizations of California</a> to <a href="/wiki/Category:Youth_organizations_based_in_California" title="Category:Youth organizations based in California">Category:Youth organizations based in California</a></dd> <dd>Propose renaming <a href="/w/index.php?title=Category:Youth_Organizations_of_San_Diego&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category:Youth Organizations of San Diego (page does not exist)">Category:Youth Organizations of San Diego</a> to <a href="/w/index.php?title=Category:Youth_organizations_based_in_San_Diego&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category:Youth organizations based in San Diego (page does not exist)">Category:Youth organizations based in San Diego</a></dd> <dd>Nominator's rationale: Rename, capitalization and standardization ("Based in" is prevalent for categories of organizations. <a href="/wiki/User:Wilchett" title="User:Wilchett">Wilchett</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_July_5#c-Wilchett-2007-07-05T13:35:00.000Z-Category:Youth_Organizations_of_San_Diego" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">13:35, 5 July 2007 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl> <ul><li><ul><li>The San Diego category turns out to be empty, so it should be deleted unless it is populated before closure. <a href="/wiki/User:Wilchett" title="User:Wilchett">Wilchett</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_July_5#c-Wilchett-2007-07-05T13:39:00.000Z-Wilchett-2007-07-05T13:35:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">13:39, 5 July 2007 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li></ul></li> <li>Rename/delete if empty at closure per nom. <a href="/wiki/User:Piccadilly" title="User:Piccadilly">Piccadilly</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_July_5#c-Piccadilly-2007-07-05T14:40:00.000Z-Category:Youth_Organizations_of_San_Diego" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">14:40, 5 July 2007 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li></ul> <hr/> <dl><dd>The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Deletion_review" title="Wikipedia:Deletion review">deletion review</a>). No further edits should be made to this section.</dd></dl></div> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading4"><h4 id="Category:Live_Action_films_based_on_Cartoons" data-mw-thread-id="h-Category:Live_Action_films_based_on_Cartoons-July_5-2007-07-05T13:20:00.000Z"><a href="/w/index.php?title=Category:Live_Action_films_based_on_Cartoons&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category:Live Action films based on Cartoons (page does not exist)">Category:Live Action films based on Cartoons</a></h4>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_July_5&action=edit&section=16" title="Edit section: Category:Live Action films based on Cartoons">edit</a>]</div> <div class="boilerplate vfd" style="background:#bff9fc; margin:0 auto; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #AAAAAA;"> <dl><dd>The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Deletion_review" title="Wikipedia:Deletion review">deletion review</a>). No further edits should be made to this section.</dd></dl> <dl><dd>The result of the discussion was: rename. Would suggest a new debate for deletion of this and several sibling cats. <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Radiant!" title="User talk:Radiant!">>Radiant<</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_July_5#c-Radiant!-2007-07-10T13:32:00.000Z-Category:Live_Action_films_based_on_Cartoons" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">13:32, 10 July 2007 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd> <dd><a href="/w/index.php?title=Category:Live_Action_films_based_on_Cartoons&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category:Live Action films based on Cartoons (page does not exist)">Category:Live Action films based on Cartoons</a> (<a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Category:Live_Action_films_based_on_Cartoons&action=edit">edit</a> | <a href="/w/index.php?title=Category_talk:Live_Action_films_based_on_Cartoons&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category talk:Live Action films based on Cartoons (page does not exist)">talk</a> | <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Category:Live_Action_films_based_on_Cartoons&action=history">history</a> | <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Whatlinkshere/:Category:Live_Action_films_based_on_Cartoons">links</a> | <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Category:Live_Action_films_based_on_Cartoons&action=watch">watch</a> | <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Log&page=%3ACategory%3ALive+Action+films+based+on+Cartoons">logs</a>)</dd> <dd>Rename to <a href="/w/index.php?title=Category:Live_action_films_based_on_cartoons&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category:Live action films based on cartoons (page does not exist)">Category:Live action films based on cartoons</a>, or Delete. -- <a href="/wiki/User:ProveIt" title="User:ProveIt">Prove It</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:ProveIt" title="User talk:ProveIt">(talk)</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_July_5#c-ProveIt-2007-07-05T13:20:00.000Z-Category:Live_Action_films_based_on_Cartoons" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">13:20, 5 July 2007 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl> <ul><li>Which option do you think is best? <a href="/wiki/User:Casperonline" title="User:Casperonline">Casperonline</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_July_5#c-Casperonline-2007-07-05T15:09:00.000Z-Category:Live_Action_films_based_on_Cartoons" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:09, 5 July 2007 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li> <li>Delete and listify as interesting but not categoric. <a href="/wiki/User:Pegship" title="User:Pegship">Her Pegship</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Pegship" title="User talk:Pegship"> (tis herself)</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_July_5#c-Pegship-2007-07-05T20:11:00.000Z-Category:Live_Action_films_based_on_Cartoons" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:11, 5 July 2007 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li> <li>Rename - to fix the capitalization. This seems like a reasonable subcategory of <a href="/wiki/Category:Films_by_source" title="Category:Films by source">Category:Films by source</a> which includes categories for films based on comic strips, comic books and the like. <a href="/wiki/User:Otto4711" title="User:Otto4711">Otto4711</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_July_5#c-Otto4711-2007-07-06T02:15:00.000Z-Category:Live_Action_films_based_on_Cartoons" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:15, 6 July 2007 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li> <li>Rename: seems like a reasonably defining characteristic for these films, and, unlike many bad film categories, this one doesn't seem at all ambiguous, vague or subjective. <a href="/wiki/User:Xtifr" title="User:Xtifr">Xtifr</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Xtifr" title="User talk:Xtifr">tälk</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_July_5#c-Xtifr-2007-07-07T08:33:00.000Z-Category:Live_Action_films_based_on_Cartoons" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">08:33, 7 July 2007 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li> <li>If renamed, it should be "Live-action films based on cartoons", as "live-action" is a compound modifier of "films". --<a href="/w/index.php?title=User:EEMeltonIV&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:EEMeltonIV (page does not exist)">EEMeltonIV</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_July_5#c-EEMeltonIV-2007-07-07T08:36:00.000Z-Category:Live_Action_films_based_on_Cartoons" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">08:36, 7 July 2007 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <ul><li>Actually, <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="http://www.bartleby.com/64/84.html">Bartelby's</a> says, "If there is no possibility of confusion, or if the hyphen would look clumsy, omit the hyphen." <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="http://www.chicagomanualofstyle.org/CMS_FAQ/Compounds/Compounds06.html">The Chicago Manual of Style</a> agrees if the compound is widely used without a hyphen. In this case, I think there is no possibility of confusion ("live film" is a bit of an oxymoron, so there's no danger of reading this as "live action-films"), so that only leaves the question of whether "live action" (no hyphen) is widely used as an adjective. A quick google survey suggests the answer is yes, even by reliable sources, although with-a-hyphen is also widely used. <s>Therefore I neither endorse nor oppose the use of a hyphen here.</s> Correction: after reflection, I mildly oppose the hyphen per Bartleby's. <a href="/wiki/User:Xtifr" title="User:Xtifr">Xtifr</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Xtifr" title="User talk:Xtifr">tälk</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_July_5#c-Xtifr-2007-07-09T08:49:00.000Z-EEMeltonIV-2007-07-07T08:36:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">08:49, 9 July 2007 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li></ul></li> <li>Rename <a href="/w/index.php?title=Category:Live-action_films_based_on_cartoons&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category:Live-action films based on cartoons (page does not exist)">Category:Live-action films based on cartoons</a> - This category describes a defining characteristic of many films, and it can be objectively defined. It should be kept, but the name should be edited to comply with Wikipedia style standards. <a href="/wiki/User:Dr._Submillimeter" title="User:Dr. Submillimeter">Dr. Submillimeter</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_July_5#c-Dr._Submillimeter-2007-07-07T19:03:00.000Z-Category:Live_Action_films_based_on_Cartoons" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:03, 7 July 2007 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <ul><li>Comment - I am flexible regarding the use of the hyphen. <a href="/wiki/User:Dr._Submillimeter" title="User:Dr. Submillimeter">Dr. Submillimeter</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_July_5#c-Dr._Submillimeter-2007-07-09T09:18:00.000Z-Dr._Submillimeter-2007-07-07T19:03:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">09:18, 9 July 2007 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li></ul></li> <li>Delete yet another creation by repeatedly banned user. <a href="/wiki/User:Doczilla" title="User:Doczilla">Doczilla</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_July_5#c-Doczilla-2007-07-07T20:29:00.000Z-Category:Live_Action_films_based_on_Cartoons" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:29, 7 July 2007 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li></ul> <dl><dd><ul><li>Even a blind pig finds the occasional acorn, and a repeatedly banned user can occasionally create a decent category. <a href="/wiki/User:Otto4711" title="User:Otto4711">Otto4711</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_July_5#c-Otto4711-2007-07-07T20:58:00.000Z-Doczilla-2007-07-07T20:29:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:58, 7 July 2007 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li></ul> <dl><dd>Is there a "movies based on books" category? "Movies based on video games" "Movies based on wallpaper" "Movies based on urban legends"? Do movies get cats for every source? <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Wryspy&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Wryspy (page does not exist)">Wryspy</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_July_5#c-Wryspy-2007-07-08T07:05:00.000Z-Doczilla-2007-07-07T20:29:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">07:05, 8 July 2007 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <ul><li>Comment - See <a href="/wiki/Category:Films_by_source" title="Category:Films by source">Category:Films by source</a>. The equivalent categories exist for books, fairy tales, games, comic strips, poems, plays, etc. <a href="/wiki/User:Dr._Submillimeter" title="User:Dr. Submillimeter">Dr. Submillimeter</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_July_5#c-Dr._Submillimeter-2007-07-09T09:18:00.000Z-Wryspy-2007-07-08T07:05:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">09:18, 9 July 2007 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li></ul> <dl><dd>Actually, creation by a banned user is grounds for speedy delete (criterion #5). <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Wryspy&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Wryspy (page does not exist)">Wryspy</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_July_5#c-Wryspy-2007-07-08T16:42:00.000Z-Wryspy-2007-07-08T07:05:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:42, 8 July 2007 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>In order: <ol><li>See: <a href="/wiki/Category:Films_by_source" title="Category:Films by source">Category:Films by source</a> parent of 19 like subs, including books.</li> <li>Speedy is not a guarantee. As pointed out by others, the cat has merit, regardless of who put it up.</li></ol></dd> <dd>- <a href="/wiki/User:J_Greb" title="User:J Greb">J Greb</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_July_5#c-J_Greb-2007-07-09T05:35:00.000Z-Wryspy-2007-07-08T16:42:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">05:35, 9 July 2007 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <ul><li>Comment - This category does not qualify for speedy deletion. Its deletion has already been contested. <a href="/wiki/User:Dr._Submillimeter" title="User:Dr. Submillimeter">Dr. Submillimeter</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_July_5#c-Dr._Submillimeter-2007-07-09T09:18:00.000Z-J_Greb-2007-07-09T05:35:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">09:18, 9 July 2007 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li></ul></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <hr/> <dl><dd>The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Deletion_review" title="Wikipedia:Deletion review">deletion review</a>). No further edits should be made to this section.</dd></dl></div> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading4"><h4 id="Category:"A"_Film_Festivals" data-mw-thread-id="h-Category:"A"_Film_Festivals-July_5-2007-07-05T12:58:00.000Z"><a href="/w/index.php?title=Category:%22A%22_Film_Festivals&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category:"A" Film Festivals (page does not exist)">Category:"A" Film Festivals</a></h4>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_July_5&action=edit&section=17" title="Edit section: Category:"A" Film Festivals">edit</a>]</div> <div class="boilerplate vfd" style="background:#bff9fc; margin:0 auto; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #AAAAAA;"> <dl><dd>The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Deletion_review" title="Wikipedia:Deletion review">deletion review</a>). No further edits should be made to this section.</dd></dl> <dl><dd>The result of the discussion was: merge. <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Radiant!" title="User talk:Radiant!">>Radiant<</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_July_5#c-Radiant!-2007-07-10T13:32:00.000Z-Category:"A"_Film_Festivals" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">13:32, 10 July 2007 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd> <dd><a href="/w/index.php?title=Category:%22A%22_Film_Festivals&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category:"A" Film Festivals (page does not exist)">Category:"A" Film Festivals</a> (<a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Category:%22A%22_Film_Festivals&action=edit">edit</a> | <a href="/w/index.php?title=Category_talk:%22A%22_Film_Festivals&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category talk:"A" Film Festivals (page does not exist)">talk</a> | <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Category:%22A%22_Film_Festivals&action=history">history</a> | <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Whatlinkshere/:Category:%22A%22_Film_Festivals">links</a> | <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Category:%22A%22_Film_Festivals&action=watch">watch</a> | <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Log&page=%3ACategory%3A%26%2334%3BA%26%2334%3B+Film+Festivals">logs</a>)</dd> <dd>Merge into <a href="/wiki/Category:Film_festivals" title="Category:Film festivals">Category:Film festivals</a>, as duplicate. -- <a href="/wiki/User:ProveIt" title="User:ProveIt">Prove It</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:ProveIt" title="User talk:ProveIt">(talk)</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_July_5#c-ProveIt-2007-07-05T12:58:00.000Z-Category:"A"_Film_Festivals" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">12:58, 5 July 2007 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl> <ul><li>Merge. I agree. This category's name is POV. — <a href="/wiki/User:Frecklefoot" title="User:Frecklefoot">Frecklefσσt</a> | <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Frecklefoot" title="User talk:Frecklefoot">Talk</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_July_5#c-Frecklefoot-2007-07-05T13:03:00.000Z-Category:"A"_Film_Festivals" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">13:03, 5 July 2007 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li> <li>Merge - The "A" category appears to separate "prestigious" film festivals from "other" film festivals. The problem with this approach is that it suffers from severe POV problems, as it requires editors to make subjective judgments about which festivals are the most prestigious. (Presumably, everything on Wikipedia is already notable anyway or else it would not be in Wikipedia.) <a href="/wiki/User:Dr._Submillimeter" title="User:Dr. Submillimeter">Dr. Submillimeter</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_July_5#c-Dr._Submillimeter-2007-07-05T13:19:00.000Z-Category:"A"_Film_Festivals" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">13:19, 5 July 2007 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li> <li>Merge POV. There is always merit in being able to identify the leading items in Wikipedia's vast range of articles, and frankly the means for doing so need to be improved a lot (eg by making it possible to browse the articles in a category by number of hits or edits), but this is not an acceptable way to do it. <a href="/wiki/User:Casperonline" title="User:Casperonline">Casperonline</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_July_5#c-Casperonline-2007-07-05T15:08:00.000Z-Category:"A"_Film_Festivals" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:08, 5 July 2007 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li> <li>Delete per nom, clear POV. <a href="/wiki/User:Carlossuarez46" title="User:Carlossuarez46">Carlossuarez46</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_July_5#c-Carlossuarez46-2007-07-06T00:28:00.000Z-Category:"A"_Film_Festivals" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:28, 6 July 2007 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li> <li>Merge per nom. Undeniable and unresolvable POV issues. <a href="/wiki/User:Xtifr" title="User:Xtifr">Xtifr</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Xtifr" title="User talk:Xtifr">tälk</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_July_5#c-Xtifr-2007-07-06T19:45:00.000Z-Category:"A"_Film_Festivals" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:45, 6 July 2007 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li></ul> <hr/> <dl><dd>The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Deletion_review" title="Wikipedia:Deletion review">deletion review</a>). No further edits should be made to this section.</dd></dl></div> <div class="boilerplate vfd" style="background:#bff9fc; margin:0 auto; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #AAAAAA;"> <dl><dd>The following discussion is an archived debate regarding the category or categories above. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Deletion_review" title="Wikipedia:Deletion review">deletion review</a>). No further edits should be made to this section.</dd></dl> The result of the debate was DELETE <a href="/wiki/User:Nick" title="User:Nick">Nick</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_July_5#c-Nick-2007-07-09T18:16:00.000Z-Category:"A"_Film_Festivals" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:16, 9 July 2007 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <div class="mw-heading mw-heading4"><h4 id="Category:Homophobic_films" data-mw-thread-id="h-Category:Homophobic_films-July_5-2007-07-05T12:32:00.000Z">Category:Homophobic films</h4>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_July_5&action=edit&section=18" title="Edit section: Category:Homophobic films">edit</a>]</div> <dl><dd><a href="/w/index.php?title=Category:Homophobic_films&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category:Homophobic films (page does not exist)">Category:Homophobic films</a> (<a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Category:Homophobic_films&action=edit">edit</a> | <a href="/w/index.php?title=Category_talk:Homophobic_films&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category talk:Homophobic films (page does not exist)">talk</a> | <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Category:Homophobic_films&action=history">history</a> | <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Whatlinkshere/:Category:Homophobic_films">links</a> | <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Category:Homophobic_films&action=watch">watch</a> | <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Log&page=%3ACategory%3AHomophobic+films">logs</a>) </dd> <dd>Nominator's rationale: Delete - fatally POV. No possible objective inclusion criteria. <a href="/wiki/User:Otto4711" title="User:Otto4711">Otto4711</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_July_5#c-Otto4711-2007-07-05T12:32:00.000Z-Category:Homophobic_films" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">12:32, 5 July 2007 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl> <ul><li>Delete per nom. <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:AshbyJnr&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:AshbyJnr (page does not exist)">AshbyJnr</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_July_5#c-AshbyJnr-2007-07-05T13:13:00.000Z-Category:Homophobic_films" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">13:13, 5 July 2007 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li> <li>Delete - AshbyJnr says it all. <a href="/wiki/User:Quietvoice" title="User:Quietvoice">Quietvoice</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_July_5#c-Quietvoice-2007-07-05T16:38:00.000Z-Category:Homophobic_films" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:38, 5 July 2007 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li> <li>Delete per nom. Looking through the list, most of the films are not even about gay issues. It's like creating a category on films that at some point make a "Polock" joke or a "blond" joke. Not a defining characteristic by any means.-<a href="/wiki/User:Andrew_c" title="User:Andrew c">Andrew c</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Andrew_c" title="User talk:Andrew c">[talk]</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_July_5#c-Andrew_c-2007-07-05T17:05:00.000Z-Category:Homophobic_films" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:05, 5 July 2007 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li> <li>Delete per <a href="/wiki/User:Andrew_c" title="User:Andrew c">Andrew c</a>. <a href="/wiki/User:Nathanian" title="User:Nathanian">Nathanian</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_July_5#c-Nathanian-2007-07-05T23:51:00.000Z-Category:Homophobic_films" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:51, 5 July 2007 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li> <li>Delete per nom. <a href="/wiki/User:Carlossuarez46" title="User:Carlossuarez46">Carlossuarez46</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_July_5#c-Carlossuarez46-2007-07-06T00:29:00.000Z-Category:Homophobic_films" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:29, 6 July 2007 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li> <li>Delete — Obvious POV. Some of these films - like Blacula, Coonskin, Dune and She's Gotta Have It are guilty only of having gay characters, and aren't necessarily homophobic. (<a href="/wiki/User:Ibaranoff24" class="mw-redirect" title="User:Ibaranoff24">Ibaranoff24</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_July_5#c-Ibaranoff24-2007-07-06T13:30:00.000Z-Category:Homophobic_films" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">13:30, 6 July 2007 (UTC)</a>)[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li> <li>delete per Otto, Andrew and Ibaranoff. To expand on Ibaranoff's example, Dune seems to be here because one of the villains is a pedophile. <a href="/wiki/User:JoshuaZ" title="User:JoshuaZ">JoshuaZ</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_July_5#c-JoshuaZ-2007-07-06T15:39:00.000Z-Category:Homophobic_films" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:39, 6 July 2007 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li> <li>Delete per nom. Impossible to be NPOV. --<a href="/wiki/User:Piemanmoo" title="User:Piemanmoo">Piemanmoo</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_July_5#c-Piemanmoo-2007-07-06T22:33:00.000Z-Category:Homophobic_films" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:33, 6 July 2007 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li> <li>Delete as inherently POV. <a href="/wiki/User:Fordmadoxfraud" title="User:Fordmadoxfraud">Ford MF</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_July_5#c-Fordmadoxfraud-2007-07-07T01:43:00.000Z-Category:Homophobic_films" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:43, 7 July 2007 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li> <li>Delete POV. Also, it's a terrible name. People can be homophobic. A film cannot. <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Wryspy&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Wryspy (page does not exist)">Wryspy</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_July_5#c-Wryspy-2007-07-08T07:02:00.000Z-Category:Homophobic_films" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">07:02, 8 July 2007 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li> <li>Delete non-defined inclusion criteria - horribly POV - thought this was a bad joke, sadly 'taint. <a href="/wiki/User:SkierRMH" class="mw-redirect" title="User:SkierRMH">SkierRMH</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_July_5#c-SkierRMH-2007-07-08T07:15:00.000Z-Category:Homophobic_films" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">07:15, 8 July 2007 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li> <li>Delete Having one or two gay jokes does not make a film homophobic. And as others have said, it's horribly POV.<a href="/wiki/User:Raymondluxuryacht" title="User:Raymondluxuryacht">Raymondluxuryacht</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_July_5#c-Raymondluxuryacht-2007-07-08T22:01:00.000Z-Category:Homophobic_films" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:01, 8 July 2007 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li> <li>Delete Homophobic film? Why not claustrophobic film? <a href="/wiki/User:Stedder" title="User:Stedder">Tex</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_July_5#c-Stedder-2007-07-09T02:31:00.000Z-Category:Homophobic_films" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:31, 9 July 2007 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li></ul> <dl><dd>The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Deletion_review" title="Wikipedia:Deletion review">deletion review</a>). No further edits should be made to this section.</dd></dl></div> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading4"><h4 id="Category:Historical_members_of_the_Executive_Council_of_New_Brunswick" data-mw-thread-id="h-Category:Historical_members_of_the_Executive_Council_of_New_Brunswick-July_5-2007-07-05T09:29:00.000Z">Category:Historical members of the Executive Council of New Brunswick</h4>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_July_5&action=edit&section=19" title="Edit section: Category:Historical members of the Executive Council of New Brunswick">edit</a>]</div> <div class="boilerplate vfd" style="background:#bff9fc; margin:0 auto; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #AAAAAA;"> <dl><dd>The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Deletion_review" title="Wikipedia:Deletion review">deletion review</a>). No further edits should be made to this section.</dd></dl> <dl><dd>The result of the discussion was: merge. <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Radiant!" title="User talk:Radiant!">>Radiant<</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_July_5#c-Radiant!-2007-07-10T13:32:00.000Z-Category:Historical_members_of_the_Executive_Council_of_New_Brunswick" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">13:32, 10 July 2007 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd> <dd>Suggest merging <a href="/w/index.php?title=Category:Historical_members_of_the_Executive_Council_of_New_Brunswick&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category:Historical members of the Executive Council of New Brunswick (page does not exist)">Category:Historical members of the Executive Council of New Brunswick</a> to <a href="/wiki/Category:Members_of_the_Executive_Council_of_New_Brunswick" title="Category:Members of the Executive Council of New Brunswick">Category:Members of the Executive Council of New Brunswick</a></dd> <dd>Nominator's rationale: Merge - People are generally not sorted according to status ("alive", "dead", "retired", "active", etc.). Therefore, this category should be merged into its parent category. <a href="/wiki/User:Dr._Submillimeter" title="User:Dr. Submillimeter">Dr. Submillimeter</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_July_5#c-Dr._Submillimeter-2007-07-05T09:29:00.000Z-Category:Historical_members_of_the_Executive_Council_of_New_Brunswick" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">09:29, 5 July 2007 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl> <ul><li>Merge per nom. <a href="/wiki/User:Casperonline" title="User:Casperonline">Casperonline</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_July_5#c-Casperonline-2007-07-05T15:06:00.000Z-Category:Historical_members_of_the_Executive_Council_of_New_Brunswick" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:06, 5 July 2007 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li></ul> <hr/> <dl><dd>The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Deletion_review" title="Wikipedia:Deletion review">deletion review</a>). No further edits should be made to this section.</dd></dl></div> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading4"><h4 id="Category:Historical_women_who_lived_as_male" data-mw-thread-id="h-Category:Historical_women_who_lived_as_male-July_5-2007-07-05T09:27:00.000Z">Category:Historical women who lived as male</h4>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_July_5&action=edit&section=20" title="Edit section: Category:Historical women who lived as male">edit</a>]</div> <div class="boilerplate vfd" style="background:#bff9fc; margin:0 auto; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #AAAAAA;"> <dl><dd>The following discussion is an archived debate regarding the category or categories above. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Deletion_review" title="Wikipedia:Deletion review">deletion review</a>). No further edits should be made to this section.</dd></dl> The result of the debate was delete --<a href="/wiki/User:Kbdank71" title="User:Kbdank71">Kbdank71</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_July_5#c-Kbdank71-2007-07-11T14:11:00.000Z-Category:Historical_women_who_lived_as_male" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">14:11, 11 July 2007 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Propose renaming <a href="/w/index.php?title=Category:Historical_women_who_lived_as_male&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category:Historical women who lived as male (page does not exist)">Category:Historical women who lived as male</a> to <a href="/w/index.php?title=Category:Women_who_lived_as_men&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category:Women who lived as men (page does not exist)">Category:Women who lived as men</a></dd> <dd>Nominator's rationale: Rename - This category was nominated for deletion on <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_June_28#Category:Historical_women_who_lived_as_male" title="Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2007 June 28">28 Jun 2007</a> with no decision as to whether to keep or delete it. Several people commented that the category needs to be renamed if kept, but no consensus was reached on this. I suggest removing the term "historical", as this term has multiple meanings (such as "retired", or some arbitrary age, or living so many years ago). I also suggest changing "male" to "men", as this will improve the English in the title. <a href="/wiki/User:Dr._Submillimeter" title="User:Dr. Submillimeter">Dr. Submillimeter</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_July_5#c-Dr._Submillimeter-2007-07-05T09:27:00.000Z-Kbdank71-2007-07-11T14:11:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">09:27, 5 July 2007 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl> The reason I used the term "historical" is because modern "women" who live as men are called trans men and are considered men. But historically some women lived as male maybe only to get the rights and social privileges that only men had, and they were sort of radical feminists of the time. Or maybe some of them were indeed transgender males. But we'll never know today, because it was a different context back then, hence the need for this special category for historical women who lived as male.--<a href="/wiki/User:Sonjaaa" title="User:Sonjaaa">Sonjaaa</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_July_5#c-Sonjaaa-2007-07-05T12:07:00.000Z-Category:Historical_women_who_lived_as_male" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">12:07, 5 July 2007 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <ul><li>Comment - Yes, but what do "historical" and "modern" mean? What is the dividing line between the two? 1950? WWII? 1900? 1980? Is "historical" for dead people and "modern" for living people? The term "historical" needs to be defined better. I know from experience that the term has a broad range of uses here on Wikipedia. Just look at the other nominations of "historical" categories on this page. <a href="/wiki/User:Dr._Submillimeter" title="User:Dr. Submillimeter">Dr. Submillimeter</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_July_5#c-Dr._Submillimeter-2007-07-05T13:14:00.000Z-Sonjaaa-2007-07-05T12:07:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">13:14, 5 July 2007 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li> <li>Comment I do think this needs keeping seperate, per Sonjaa. Perhaps 1950 is a suitable arbitary cut-off? <a href="/wiki/User:Johnbod" title="User:Johnbod">Johnbod</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_July_5#c-Johnbod-2007-07-05T13:27:00.000Z-Sonjaaa-2007-07-05T12:07:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">13:27, 5 July 2007 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li> <li>Rename per nom; trying to define a difference between "historical" and "modern" is impossible or just someone's POV. <a href="/wiki/User:Carlossuarez46" title="User:Carlossuarez46">Carlossuarez46</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_July_5#c-Carlossuarez46-2007-07-06T00:30:00.000Z-Sonjaaa-2007-07-05T12:07:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:30, 6 July 2007 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li> <li>Strong delete I examined this category today, and it contains 4 articles and a subcat (I think the subcat is fine, and shouldn't be deleted, so I won't discuss it). One is about a woman who smoked a pipe and wore mens clothing before it was fashionable to do so. She clearly still identified as female, and the word "disguise" is used in quotes. Another article is about a female pharaoh, who adapted the male term for "King", because there was no equivalent of "Queen" in ancient Egyptian. She still identified as female. Then there are two 20th century transgender individuals who are already categorized in related LGBT categories. So no one in this cat currently belongs there, the word "historical" is strange, and the proposal to just leave it "Women who lived as men" doesn't seem like a valid categorization. Are there individuals that currently aren't in this category that belong there? -<a href="/wiki/User:Andrew_c" title="User:Andrew c">Andrew c</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Andrew_c" title="User talk:Andrew c">[talk]</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_July_5#c-Andrew_c-2007-07-07T23:28:00.000Z-Sonjaaa-2007-07-05T12:07:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:28, 7 July 2007 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li></ul> <dl><dd><dl><dd>The contents now in fact seem to have changed completely, but still lack famous figures like <a href="/wiki/Pope_Joan" title="Pope Joan">Pope Joan</a>, <a href="/wiki/St._Mary_of_Alexandria" class="mw-redirect" title="St. Mary of Alexandria">St. Mary of Alexandria</a> and others. I agree the sub-cat is essentially ok, although the name is odd, and might perhaps usefully divided between the career and the emergency cross-dressers. <a href="/wiki/User:Johnbod" title="User:Johnbod">Johnbod</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_July_5#c-Johnbod-2007-07-08T01:10:00.000Z-Andrew_c-2007-07-07T23:28:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:10, 8 July 2007 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd></dl> <ul><li>Comment - Why do the contents of this category seem to change every time that I look at it? People voting to "keep" in the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_June_28#Category:Historical_women_who_lived_as_male" title="Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2007 June 28">28 Jun 2007</a> discussion stated that the category was well defined. If that is so, then why is the category so unstable? Maybe a more stringent category name is needed. <a href="/wiki/User:Dr._Submillimeter" title="User:Dr. Submillimeter">Dr. Submillimeter</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_July_5#c-Dr._Submillimeter-2007-07-08T06:59:00.000Z-Sonjaaa-2007-07-05T12:07:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">06:59, 8 July 2007 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li></ul> <dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><a href="/wiki/George_Sand" title="George Sand">George Sand</a> was removed from it by this <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=George_Sand&diff=143188395&oldid=142746610">diff</a> with a strange non-sequitur edit summary. I don't think she belonged here, but disapprove of depopulating categories under discussion. <a href="/wiki/User:Johnbod" title="User:Johnbod">Johnbod</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_July_5#c-Johnbod-2007-07-08T12:07:00.000Z-Dr._Submillimeter-2007-07-08T06:59:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">12:07, 8 July 2007 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <ul><li>Delete & Listify per Andrew's rationale, plus the fact that the category content appears to be disputed and/or ill-defined, as judged by its instability. An annotated list is better for explaining the circumstances for these people. <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Radiant!" title="User talk:Radiant!">>Radiant<</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_July_5#c-Radiant!-2007-07-10T13:32:00.000Z-Sonjaaa-2007-07-05T12:07:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">13:32, 10 July 2007 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li></ul> <dl><dd>The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Deletion_review" title="Wikipedia:Deletion review">deletion review</a>). No further edits should be made to this section.</dd></dl></div> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading4"><h4 id="Category:Historical_upper_houses_of_the_United_Kingdom" data-mw-thread-id="h-Category:Historical_upper_houses_of_the_United_Kingdom-July_5-2007-07-05T09:21:00.000Z">Category:Historical upper houses of the United Kingdom</h4>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_July_5&action=edit&section=21" title="Edit section: Category:Historical upper houses of the United Kingdom">edit</a>]</div> <div class="boilerplate vfd" style="background:#bff9fc; margin:0 auto; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #AAAAAA;"> <dl><dd>The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Deletion_review" title="Wikipedia:Deletion review">deletion review</a>). No further edits should be made to this section.</dd></dl> <dl><dd>The result of the discussion was: delete. <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Radiant!" title="User talk:Radiant!">>Radiant<</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_July_5#c-Radiant!-2007-07-10T13:32:00.000Z-Category:Historical_upper_houses_of_the_United_Kingdom" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">13:32, 10 July 2007 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd> <dd><a href="/w/index.php?title=Category:Historical_upper_houses_of_the_United_Kingdom&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category:Historical upper houses of the United Kingdom (page does not exist)">Category:Historical upper houses of the United Kingdom</a> (<a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Category:Historical_upper_houses_of_the_United_Kingdom&action=edit">edit</a> | <a href="/w/index.php?title=Category_talk:Historical_upper_houses_of_the_United_Kingdom&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category talk:Historical upper houses of the United Kingdom (page does not exist)">talk</a> | <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Category:Historical_upper_houses_of_the_United_Kingdom&action=history">history</a> | <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Whatlinkshere/:Category:Historical_upper_houses_of_the_United_Kingdom">links</a> | <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Category:Historical_upper_houses_of_the_United_Kingdom&action=watch">watch</a> | <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Log&page=%3ACategory%3AHistorical+upper+houses+of+the+United+Kingdom">logs</a>) </dd> <dd>Nominator's rationale: Delete - In the case of <a href="/w/index.php?title=Category:Historical_upper_houses&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category:Historical upper houses (page does not exist)">Category:Historical upper houses</a> and <a href="/w/index.php?title=Category:Historical_lower_houses&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category:Historical lower houses (page does not exist)">Category:Historical lower houses</a>, the term "historical" is actually used as a synonym for "defunct"; see the nominations below. <a href="/w/index.php?title=Category:Historical_upper_houses_of_the_United_Kingdom&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category:Historical upper houses of the United Kingdom (page does not exist)">Category:Historical upper houses of the United Kingdom</a>, however, contains nothing but <a href="/wiki/Category:House_of_Lords" title="Category:House of Lords">Category:House of Lords</a>, which is an entity that still functions as a legislative body (unless <a href="/wiki/Gordon_Brown" title="Gordon Brown">Gordon Brown</a> has proposed some radical government changes that I am not aware of). So, "historic" in this case is not a synonym for "defunct". My best guess is that it is being used as a synonym for "old". Still, the term "historic" could cause confusion. Also, I cannot conceive of a situation where more articles would be added to this category. I recommend just deleting it, as it looks unnecessary and as the term "historic" could cause confusion. <a href="/wiki/User:Dr._Submillimeter" title="User:Dr. Submillimeter">Dr. Submillimeter</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_July_5#c-Dr._Submillimeter-2007-07-05T09:21:00.000Z-Category:Historical_upper_houses_of_the_United_Kingdom" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">09:21, 5 July 2007 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl> <ul><li>Delete per nom <a href="/wiki/User:Johnbod" title="User:Johnbod">Johnbod</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_July_5#c-Johnbod-2007-07-05T13:29:00.000Z-Category:Historical_upper_houses_of_the_United_Kingdom" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">13:29, 5 July 2007 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li> <li>Delete The House of Lords is still functioning. <a href="/wiki/User:Casperonline" title="User:Casperonline">Casperonline</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_July_5#c-Casperonline-2007-07-05T15:06:00.000Z-Category:Historical_upper_houses_of_the_United_Kingdom" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:06, 5 July 2007 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li></ul> <hr/> <dl><dd>The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Deletion_review" title="Wikipedia:Deletion review">deletion review</a>). No further edits should be made to this section.</dd></dl></div> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading4"><h4 id="Category:Historical_upper_houses" data-mw-thread-id="h-Category:Historical_upper_houses-July_5-2007-07-05T09:10:00.000Z">Category:Historical upper houses</h4>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_July_5&action=edit&section=22" title="Edit section: Category:Historical upper houses">edit</a>]</div> <div class="boilerplate vfd" style="background:#bff9fc; margin:0 auto; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #AAAAAA;"> <dl><dd>The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Deletion_review" title="Wikipedia:Deletion review">deletion review</a>). No further edits should be made to this section.</dd></dl> <dl><dd>The result of the discussion was: rename. <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Radiant!" title="User talk:Radiant!">>Radiant<</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_July_5#c-Radiant!-2007-07-10T13:32:00.000Z-Category:Historical_upper_houses" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">13:32, 10 July 2007 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd> <dd>Propose renaming <a href="/w/index.php?title=Category:Historical_upper_houses&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category:Historical upper houses (page does not exist)">Category:Historical upper houses</a> to <a href="/wiki/Category:Defunct_upper_houses" title="Category:Defunct upper houses">Category:Defunct upper houses</a></dd> <dd>Nominator's rationale: Rename - This category is for upper (governmental) houses that no longer exist. The term "defunct" communicates this much more clearly than "historic", as "historic" has multiple meanings, including "old" and "notable". The category should therefore be renamed. <a href="/wiki/User:Dr._Submillimeter" title="User:Dr. Submillimeter">Dr. Submillimeter</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_July_5#c-Dr._Submillimeter-2007-07-05T09:10:00.000Z-Category:Historical_upper_houses" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">09:10, 5 July 2007 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl> <ul><li>Rename to <a href="/w/index.php?title=Category:Former_upper_legislative_houses&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category:Former upper legislative houses (page does not exist)">Category:Former upper legislative houses</a> for maximum clarity and accuracy. <a href="/wiki/User:Johnbod" title="User:Johnbod">Johnbod</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_July_5#c-Johnbod-2007-07-05T13:30:00.000Z-Category:Historical_upper_houses" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">13:30, 5 July 2007 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li></ul> <ul><li>Rename to <a href="/w/index.php?title=Category:Former_upper_legislative_houses&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category:Former upper legislative houses (page does not exist)">Category:Former upper legislative houses</a> per <a href="/wiki/User:Johnbod" title="User:Johnbod">Johnbod</a>. <a href="/wiki/User:Piccadilly" title="User:Piccadilly">Piccadilly</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_July_5#c-Piccadilly-2007-07-05T14:40:00.000Z-Category:Historical_upper_houses" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">14:40, 5 July 2007 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li></ul> <ul><li>Comment - Is there a reason for choosing "former" over "defunct" here? <a href="/wiki/User:Dr._Submillimeter" title="User:Dr. Submillimeter">Dr. Submillimeter</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_July_5#c-Dr._Submillimeter-2007-07-05T14:50:00.000Z-Category:Historical_upper_houses" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">14:50, 5 July 2007 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li> <li>Rename to <a href="/w/index.php?title=Category:Former_lower_legislative_houses&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category:Former lower legislative houses (page does not exist)">Category:Former lower legislative houses</a>. "Defunct" is unnecessarily colourful, it sound almost as if wikipedia is celebrating seeing the back of them. that it not quite neutral in a political context. <a href="/wiki/User:Casperonline" title="User:Casperonline">Casperonline</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_July_5#c-Casperonline-2007-07-05T15:05:00.000Z-Category:Historical_upper_houses" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:05, 5 July 2007 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li> <li>Rename as defunct - The 1st through 109th Congresses of the United States are "former" legislative bodies but they are not "defunct." "Former" is ambiguous. "Defunct" is not. I am mystified as to why this prejudice against the word "defunct" exists. It's a perfectly cromulent word. <a href="/wiki/User:Otto4711" title="User:Otto4711">Otto4711</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_July_5#c-Otto4711-2007-07-05T17:50:00.000Z-Category:Historical_upper_houses" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:50, 5 July 2007 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li> <li>Rename to <a href="/w/index.php?title=Category:Former_upper_legislative_houses&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category:Former upper legislative houses (page does not exist)">Category:Former upper legislative houses</a>. The 1st through 109th Congresses of the United States are not former legislative bodies, they are past sessions of a current legislative body. <a href="/wiki/User:Nathanian" title="User:Nathanian">Nathanian</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_July_5#c-Nathanian-2007-07-05T23:53:00.000Z-Category:Historical_upper_houses" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:53, 5 July 2007 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li></ul> <hr/> <dl><dd>The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Deletion_review" title="Wikipedia:Deletion review">deletion review</a>). No further edits should be made to this section.</dd></dl></div> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading4"><h4 id="Category:Historical_railway_companies_of_Germany" data-mw-thread-id="h-Category:Historical_railway_companies_of_Germany-July_5-2007-07-05T09:04:00.000Z">Category:Historical railway companies of Germany</h4>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_July_5&action=edit&section=23" title="Edit section: Category:Historical railway companies of Germany">edit</a>]</div> <div class="boilerplate vfd" style="background:#bff9fc; margin:0 auto; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #AAAAAA;"> <dl><dd>The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Deletion_review" title="Wikipedia:Deletion review">deletion review</a>). No further edits should be made to this section.</dd></dl> <dl><dd>The result of the discussion was: rename. <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Radiant!" title="User talk:Radiant!">>Radiant<</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_July_5#c-Radiant!-2007-07-10T13:32:00.000Z-Category:Historical_railway_companies_of_Germany" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">13:32, 10 July 2007 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd> <dd>Propose renaming <a href="/w/index.php?title=Category:Historical_railway_companies_of_Germany&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category:Historical railway companies of Germany (page does not exist)">Category:Historical railway companies of Germany</a> to <a href="/wiki/Category:Defunct_railway_companies_of_Germany" title="Category:Defunct railway companies of Germany">Category:Defunct railway companies of Germany</a></dd> <dd>Nominator's rationale: Rename - The term "historical" could mean many things in this context. It could be used to indicate that the railways are old, that they have received some type of "historic" designation from the German government for preservation purposes, or that the railroads are set up to take tourists on train rides in vintage (19th century) trains. In this case, "historic" is used to indicate that the railroads no longer exist as orgnaizations. I suggest using "defunct" instead of "historic", as the interpretation of "defunct" is much less ambiguous. <a href="/wiki/User:Dr._Submillimeter" title="User:Dr. Submillimeter">Dr. Submillimeter</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_July_5#c-Dr._Submillimeter-2007-07-05T09:04:00.000Z-Category:Historical_railway_companies_of_Germany" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">09:04, 5 July 2007 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl> <ul><li>Rename per nom. <a href="/wiki/User:Nathanian" title="User:Nathanian">Nathanian</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_July_5#c-Nathanian-2007-07-05T23:54:00.000Z-Category:Historical_railway_companies_of_Germany" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:54, 5 July 2007 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li></ul> <hr/> <dl><dd>The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Deletion_review" title="Wikipedia:Deletion review">deletion review</a>). No further edits should be made to this section.</dd></dl></div> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading4"><h4 id="Category:Historical_programming_languages" data-mw-thread-id="h-Category:Historical_programming_languages-July_5-2007-07-05T09:01:00.000Z">Category:Historical programming languages</h4>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_July_5&action=edit&section=24" title="Edit section: Category:Historical programming languages">edit</a>]</div> <div class="boilerplate vfd" style="background:#bff9fc; margin:0 auto; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #AAAAAA;"> <dl><dd>The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Deletion_review" title="Wikipedia:Deletion review">deletion review</a>). No further edits should be made to this section.</dd></dl> <dl><dd>The result of the discussion was: merge. <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Radiant!" title="User talk:Radiant!">>Radiant<</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_July_5#c-Radiant!-2007-07-10T13:32:00.000Z-Category:Historical_programming_languages" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">13:32, 10 July 2007 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd> <dd>Suggest merging <a href="/w/index.php?title=Category:Historical_programming_languages&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category:Historical programming languages (page does not exist)">Category:Historical programming languages</a> to <a href="/wiki/Category:Programming_languages" title="Category:Programming languages">Category:Programming languages</a></dd> <dd>Nominator's rationale: Merge - According to the description in <a href="/w/index.php?title=Category:Historical_programming_languages&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category:Historical programming languages (page does not exist)">Category:Historical programming languages</a>, it contains "programming languages which are of historical interest but are not used significantly in industry or academia". The categories inclusion criteria are too subjective, as it requires editors to assess which languages are of "historical interest" and which are not "used significantly". Because of these problems, the category should be merged into its parent category. <a href="/wiki/User:Dr._Submillimeter" title="User:Dr. Submillimeter">Dr. Submillimeter</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_July_5#c-Dr._Submillimeter-2007-07-05T09:01:00.000Z-Category:Historical_programming_languages" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">09:01, 5 July 2007 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl> <ul><li>Merge per nom. <a href="/wiki/User:Casperonline" title="User:Casperonline">Casperonline</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_July_5#c-Casperonline-2007-07-05T15:03:00.000Z-Category:Historical_programming_languages" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:03, 5 July 2007 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li> <li>Merge per nom. <a href="/wiki/User:Nathanian" title="User:Nathanian">Nathanian</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_July_5#c-Nathanian-2007-07-05T23:55:00.000Z-Category:Historical_programming_languages" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:55, 5 July 2007 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li> <li>Merge per nom. <a href="/wiki/User:Vegaswikian" title="User:Vegaswikian">Vegaswikian</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_July_5#c-Vegaswikian-2007-07-06T02:17:00.000Z-Category:Historical_programming_languages" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:17, 6 July 2007 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li> <li>keep/do not merge It shouldn't be hard to make an objective criterion, like the presence of reliable sources saying that the language is no longer extensively used. It shouldn't be hard to source that <a href="/wiki/B_(programming_language)" title="B (programming language)">B (programming language)</a> and <a href="/wiki/ALGO" title="ALGO">ALGO</a> have not much use now. <a href="/wiki/User:JoshuaZ" title="User:JoshuaZ">JoshuaZ</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_July_5#c-JoshuaZ-2007-07-06T15:44:00.000Z-Category:Historical_programming_languages" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:44, 6 July 2007 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <ul><li>Comment - "No longer extensively used" is still a subjective criterion. How much use must be made of the language before it crosses the threshold between "extensively used" and "not extensively used"? <a href="/wiki/User:Dr._Submillimeter" title="User:Dr. Submillimeter">Dr. Submillimeter</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_July_5#c-Dr._Submillimeter-2007-07-06T19:24:00.000Z-JoshuaZ-2007-07-06T15:44:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:24, 6 July 2007 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li></ul></li></ul> <hr/> <dl><dd>The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Deletion_review" title="Wikipedia:Deletion review">deletion review</a>). No further edits should be made to this section.</dd></dl></div> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading4"><h4 id="Category:Historical_lower_houses" data-mw-thread-id="h-Category:Historical_lower_houses-July_5-2007-07-05T08:55:00.000Z">Category:Historical lower houses</h4>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_July_5&action=edit&section=25" title="Edit section: Category:Historical lower houses">edit</a>]</div> <div class="boilerplate vfd" style="background:#bff9fc; margin:0 auto; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #AAAAAA;"> <dl><dd>The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Deletion_review" title="Wikipedia:Deletion review">deletion review</a>). No further edits should be made to this section.</dd></dl> <dl><dd>The result of the discussion was: rename. <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Radiant!" title="User talk:Radiant!">>Radiant<</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_July_5#c-Radiant!-2007-07-10T13:32:00.000Z-Category:Historical_lower_houses" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">13:32, 10 July 2007 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd> <dd>Propose renaming <a href="/w/index.php?title=Category:Historical_lower_houses&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category:Historical lower houses (page does not exist)">Category:Historical lower houses</a> to <a href="/wiki/Category:Defunct_lower_houses" title="Category:Defunct lower houses">Category:Defunct lower houses</a></dd> <dd>Nominator's rationale: Rename - This category is for lower (governmental) houses that no longer exist. The term "defunct" communicates this much more clearly than "historic", as "historic" has multiple meanings, including "old" and "notable". The category should therefore be renamed. <a href="/wiki/User:Dr._Submillimeter" title="User:Dr. Submillimeter">Dr. Submillimeter</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_July_5#c-Dr._Submillimeter-2007-07-05T08:55:00.000Z-Category:Historical_lower_houses" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">08:55, 5 July 2007 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl> <ul><li>Rename to <a href="/w/index.php?title=Category:Former_lower_legislative_houses&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category:Former lower legislative houses (page does not exist)">Category:Former lower legislative houses</a> for maximum clarity and accuracy. <a href="/wiki/User:Johnbod" title="User:Johnbod">Johnbod</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_July_5#c-Johnbod-2007-07-05T13:30:00.000Z-Category:Historical_lower_houses" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">13:30, 5 July 2007 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <ul><li>Comment - Is there a reason for choosing "former" over "defunct" here? <a href="/wiki/User:Dr._Submillimeter" title="User:Dr. Submillimeter">Dr. Submillimeter</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_July_5#c-Dr._Submillimeter-2007-07-05T14:50:00.000Z-Johnbod-2007-07-05T13:30:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">14:50, 5 July 2007 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li></ul></li> <li>Rename to <a href="/w/index.php?title=Category:Former_lower_legislative_houses&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category:Former lower legislative houses (page does not exist)">Category:Former lower legislative houses</a>. "Defunct" is unnecessarily colourful, it sound almost as if wikipedia is celebrating seeing the back of them. <a href="/wiki/User:Casperonline" title="User:Casperonline">Casperonline</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_July_5#c-Casperonline-2007-07-05T15:05:00.000Z-Category:Historical_lower_houses" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:05, 5 July 2007 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li> <li>Rename as defunct - The 1st through 109th Congresses of the United States are "former" legislative bodies but they are not "defunct." "Former" is ambiguous. "Defunct" is not. I am mystified as to why this prejudice against the word "defunct" exists. It's a perfectly cromulent word. <a href="/wiki/User:Otto4711" title="User:Otto4711">Otto4711</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_July_5#c-Otto4711-2007-07-05T17:50:00.000Z-Category:Historical_lower_houses" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:50, 5 July 2007 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li></ul> <dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd>Conceivably this is a American/British difference, but I find the use of "defunct", especially as a leading ardjective, for things that were not living organisms, odd and (lets say) grating, though I agree there is a shortage of terms here. Closer please note this category should be consistent with the "upper" one above, where a consensus for "former" seems to be forming. <a href="/wiki/User:Johnbod" title="User:Johnbod">Johnbod</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_July_5#c-Johnbod-2007-07-06T10:59:00.000Z-Otto4711-2007-07-05T17:50:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">10:59, 6 July 2007 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <ul><li>Comment - I believe that <a href="/wiki/User:Otto4711" title="User:Otto4711">Otto4711</a> is a British person, and he supported using "defunct" in the "upper houses" nomination up above. <a href="/wiki/User:Dr._Submillimeter" title="User:Dr. Submillimeter">Dr. Submillimeter</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_July_5#c-Dr._Submillimeter-2007-07-08T10:58:00.000Z-Johnbod-2007-07-06T10:59:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">10:58, 8 July 2007 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li></ul> <dl><dd><ul><li>Otto4711 is a red-blooded American. Sorry to undermine the argument... <a href="/wiki/User:Otto4711" title="User:Otto4711">Otto4711</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_July_5#c-Otto4711-2007-07-10T04:14:00.000Z-Dr._Submillimeter-2007-07-08T10:58:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">04:14, 10 July 2007 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li></ul></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <hr/> <dl><dd>The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Deletion_review" title="Wikipedia:Deletion review">deletion review</a>). No further edits should be made to this section.</dd></dl></div> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading4"><h4 id="Category:Signatory_of_"A_Scientific_Dissent_From_Darwinism"" data-mw-thread-id="h-Category:Signatory_of_"A_Scientific_Dissent_From_Darwinism"-July_5-2007-07-05T01:42:00.000Z">Category:Signatory of "A Scientific Dissent From Darwinism"</h4>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_July_5&action=edit&section=26" title="Edit section: Category:Signatory of "A Scientific Dissent From Darwinism"">edit</a>]</div> <div class="boilerplate vfd" style="background:#bff9fc; margin:0 auto; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #AAAAAA;"> <dl><dd>The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Deletion_review" title="Wikipedia:Deletion review">deletion review</a>). No further edits should be made to this section.</dd></dl> <dl><dd>The result of the discussion was: delete. Signing a document is not a defining characteristic, no matter how you twist it. If people think the list clutters the article, that is not automatic grounds for making a category out of the clutter. A list article would arguably be better, as it could e.g. include relevant degrees held by the signing people. <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Radiant!" title="User talk:Radiant!">>Radiant<</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_July_5#c-Radiant!-2007-07-10T13:32:00.000Z-Category:Signatory_of_"A_Scientific_Dissent_From_Darwinism"" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">13:32, 10 July 2007 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd> <dd><a href="/w/index.php?title=Category:Signatory_of_%22A_Scientific_Dissent_From_Darwinism%22&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category:Signatory of "A Scientific Dissent From Darwinism" (page does not exist)">Category:Signatory of "A Scientific Dissent From Darwinism"</a> (<a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Category:Signatory_of_%22A_Scientific_Dissent_From_Darwinism%22&action=edit">edit</a> | <a href="/w/index.php?title=Category_talk:Signatory_of_%22A_Scientific_Dissent_From_Darwinism%22&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category talk:Signatory of "A Scientific Dissent From Darwinism" (page does not exist)">talk</a> | <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Category:Signatory_of_%22A_Scientific_Dissent_From_Darwinism%22&action=history">history</a> | <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Whatlinkshere/:Category:Signatory_of_%22A_Scientific_Dissent_From_Darwinism%22">links</a> | <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Category:Signatory_of_%22A_Scientific_Dissent_From_Darwinism%22&action=watch">watch</a> | <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Log&page=%3ACategory%3ASignatory+of+%26%2334%3BA+Scientific+Dissent+From+Darwinism%26%2334%3B">logs</a>) </dd> <dd>Nominator's rationale: Delete This category is for signatories of a proclamation. Not defining. <a href="/wiki/User:%C3%86thelwold" class="mw-redirect" title="User:Æthelwold">Æthelwold</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_July_5#c-Æthelwold-2007-07-05T01:42:00.000Z-Category:Signatory_of_"A_Scientific_Dissent_From_Darwinism"" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:42, 5 July 2007 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl> <ul><li><s>Delete/listify</s> - If categories were added for every proclamation that these people signed or every document that they supported, the list of categories at the bottom of each article would be very cluttered and very difficult to use for navigation. <s>This should probably be converted into a list, possibly in <a href="/wiki/A_Scientific_Dissent_From_Darwinism" class="mw-redirect" title="A Scientific Dissent From Darwinism">A Scientific Dissent From Darwinism</a> or possibly on a separate page.</s> <a href="/wiki/User:Dr._Submillimeter" title="User:Dr. Submillimeter">Dr. Submillimeter</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_July_5#c-Dr._Submillimeter-2007-07-05T08:26:00.000Z-Category:Signatory_of_"A_Scientific_Dissent_From_Darwinism"" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">08:26, 5 July 2007 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <ul><li><s>Merge into <a href="/wiki/Category:Intelligent_design_advocates" title="Category:Intelligent design advocates">Category:Intelligent design advocates</a></s> - After some discussion below, it appears that this is a lengthy, growing list of people who cannot be listified easily. However, I really see no difference between these specific intelligent design advocates and intelligent design advocates who have not signed the document, so I just recommend merging everyone into <a href="/wiki/Category:Intelligent_design_advocates" title="Category:Intelligent design advocates">Category:Intelligent design advocates</a>. <a href="/wiki/User:Dr._Submillimeter" title="User:Dr. Submillimeter">Dr. Submillimeter</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_July_5#c-Dr._Submillimeter-2007-07-06T10:21:00.000Z-Dr._Submillimeter-2007-07-05T08:26:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">10:21, 6 July 2007 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <ul><li>Delete/listify - After further discussion below, it appears that these people are not all intelligent design advocates, but the parent categories added to this "signatory" category certainly give that impression. I therefore am shifting back to my original recommendation that the category be deleted. Again, these people have probably signed many documents and will probably sign many more, so this particular document is not necessarily the most definitive one that states their positions. Again, a list would probably be appropriate, and it could even explain more details about people's motivations for signing the document. Also, making a list with 700 names is not too difficult, especially if broken up into subpages. <a href="/wiki/User:Dr._Submillimeter" title="User:Dr. Submillimeter">Dr. Submillimeter</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_July_5#c-Dr._Submillimeter-2007-07-09T15:41:00.000Z-Dr._Submillimeter-2007-07-06T10:21:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:41, 9 July 2007 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <ul><li>Comment: I can see no point in reproducing the full 700+ list, as it already exists at <a rel="nofollow" class="external autonumber" href="http://www.discovery.org/scripts/viewDB/filesDB-download.php?command=download&id=660">[1]</a>. There is also the question of the copyright status of reproducing it in its entirety. A category that contains the articles on signatories that are notable enough for inclusion in Wikipedia on the other hand is useful, and has no potential copyright problems. <a href="/wiki/User:Hrafn42" class="mw-redirect" title="User:Hrafn42">Hrafn42</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_July_5#c-Hrafn42-2007-07-09T16:59:00.000Z-Dr._Submillimeter-2007-07-09T15:41:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:59, 9 July 2007 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li></ul></li></ul></li></ul></li> <li>Keep - The argument against a list of signatories in the <a href="/wiki/A_Scientific_Dissent_From_Darwinism" class="mw-redirect" title="A Scientific Dissent From Darwinism">A Scientific Dissent From Darwinism</a> article itself was that the article would get cluttered (maybe there are 30+ notable persons who signed the proclamation). There are also categories about <a href="/wiki/Category:Discovery_Institute_fellows_and_advisors" title="Category:Discovery Institute fellows and advisors">Category:Discovery Institute fellows and advisors</a> <a href="/wiki/Category:Intelligent_design_advocates" title="Category:Intelligent design advocates">Category:Intelligent design advocates</a> If the cat Signatory of "A Scientific Dissent From Darwinism" is deleted, what about those? If "delete" is the consensus, then we would at least need to make a separate page. <a href="/wiki/User:Northfox" title="User:Northfox">Northfox</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_July_5#c-Northfox-2007-07-05T11:44:00.000Z-Category:Signatory_of_"A_Scientific_Dissent_From_Darwinism"" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">11:44, 5 July 2007 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <ul><li>Comment - It is not always necessary to create a category as a solution to removing a lengthy list from an article. Adding these names to a new article entitled <a href="/w/index.php?title=List_of_signatories_of_%22A_Scientific_Dissent_From_Darwinism%22&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="List of signatories of "A Scientific Dissent From Darwinism" (page does not exist)">List of signatories of "A Scientific Dissent From Darwinism"</a> would probably be more appropriate than this category. <a href="/wiki/User:Dr._Submillimeter" title="User:Dr. Submillimeter">Dr. Submillimeter</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_July_5#c-Dr._Submillimeter-2007-07-05T11:54:00.000Z-Northfox-2007-07-05T11:44:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">11:54, 5 July 2007 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <ul><li>Comment: A list was one of the options contemplated when the formation of a category was originally discussed. Is there some rule that requires the use of a list in preference to a category, where feasible? <a href="/wiki/User:Hrafn42" class="mw-redirect" title="User:Hrafn42">Hrafn42</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_July_5#c-Hrafn42-2007-07-06T04:59:00.000Z-Dr._Submillimeter-2007-07-05T11:54:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">04:59, 6 July 2007 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <ul><li>Comment - No actual hard-set rule has been set, although some guidelines have been written up at <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:CLS" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:CLS">WP:CLS</a> and <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:OC" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:OC">WP:OC</a>. Given that this signatories list is a short, finite list and that this may be one of many expressions of support for the intelligent design movement by these people, then creating a list just seems more appropriate. <a href="/wiki/User:Dr._Submillimeter" title="User:Dr. Submillimeter">Dr. Submillimeter</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_July_5#c-Dr._Submillimeter-2007-07-06T07:57:00.000Z-Hrafn42-2007-07-06T04:59:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">07:57, 6 July 2007 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <ul><li><ul><li>Comment: Then what "guidelines" does this category violate? The actual list of signatories is 700+ long and increasing, but most of its membership aren't notable so don't have articles, so aren't included in the category, which therefore just includes the notable ones (notable generally for being notorious fringe scientists, pseudo-scientists and/or cranks). And no, it is not "one of many expressions of support for the intelligent design movement by these people," it is one of the main <a href="/wiki/Discovery_Institute_intelligent_design_campaigns" title="Discovery Institute intelligent design campaigns">Discovery Institute intelligent design campaigns</a> and in <a href="/wiki/Category:Discovery_Institute_campaigns" title="Category:Discovery Institute campaigns">Category:Discovery Institute campaigns</a>. <a href="/wiki/User:Hrafn42" class="mw-redirect" title="User:Hrafn42">Hrafn42</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_July_5#c-Hrafn42-2007-07-06T09:20:00.000Z-Dr._Submillimeter-2007-07-06T07:57:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">09:20, 6 July 2007 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <ul><li>Comment - I did not realize that the list was so long. Still, categories are not needed to specify how people support intelligent design. How many other documents will these people sign to indicate their support for this viewpoint? At this point, I would just say that the people who sign the document are going to be intelligent design advocates anyway, so I would recommend merging into <a href="/wiki/Category:Intelligent_design_advocates" title="Category:Intelligent design advocates">Category:Intelligent design advocates</a>. <a href="/wiki/User:Dr._Submillimeter" title="User:Dr. Submillimeter">Dr. Submillimeter</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_July_5#c-Dr._Submillimeter-2007-07-06T10:21:00.000Z-Hrafn42-2007-07-06T09:20:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">10:21, 6 July 2007 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <ul><li>Comment:"How many other documents will these people sign to indicate their support for this viewpoint?" How many documents that are in <a href="/wiki/Category:Discovery_Institute_campaigns" title="Category:Discovery Institute campaigns">Category:Discovery Institute campaigns</a>, and thus (as the DI is by far the largest and best-funded promoter of ID) notable? Potentially, only one: signatories who have both an MD & a PhD could conceivably also sign the <a href="/wiki/Physicians_and_Surgeons_for_Scientific_Integrity" class="mw-redirect" title="Physicians and Surgeons for Scientific Integrity">Physicians and Surgeons for Scientific Integrity</a>. <a href="/wiki/User:Hrafn42" class="mw-redirect" title="User:Hrafn42">Hrafn42</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_July_5#c-Hrafn42-2007-07-06T10:46:00.000Z-Dr._Submillimeter-2007-07-06T10:21:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">10:46, 6 July 2007 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li> <li>Comment: Keep in mind not all the people who signed the document actually support intelligent design or creationism. Some of them didn't know what the discovery institute was when they signed. Mainly the category was created to solve disputes over whether or not the article should go into detail about what qualifications or affiliations the signatories had, and allow the reader to see for themselves. <a href="/wiki/User:ConfuciusOrnis" title="User:ConfuciusOrnis">ornis</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_July_5#c-ConfuciusOrnis-2007-07-08T16:38:00.000Z-Dr._Submillimeter-2007-07-06T10:21:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:38, 8 July 2007 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li></ul></li></ul></li></ul></li></ul></li></ul></li></ul></li></ul></li> <li>Delete Not category material. The list isn't that long, and if you list the names left to right, rather than one per line, it will only take up about five or six lines. <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:AshbyJnr&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:AshbyJnr (page does not exist)">AshbyJnr</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_July_5#c-AshbyJnr-2007-07-05T13:15:00.000Z-Category:Signatory_of_"A_Scientific_Dissent_From_Darwinism"" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">13:15, 5 July 2007 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li> <li>Delete/listify per the Dr. Categories are for the most notable aspects of a person's life/career. Signing onto this document isn't notable enough for categorization, however retaining this information in an independent list could be beneficial.-<a href="/wiki/User:Andrew_c" title="User:Andrew c">Andrew c</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Andrew_c" title="User talk:Andrew c">[talk]</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_July_5#c-Andrew_c-2007-07-05T17:01:00.000Z-Category:Signatory_of_"A_Scientific_Dissent_From_Darwinism"" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:01, 5 July 2007 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li> <li>Delete per nom, w/o prejudice to list of signers article. <a href="/wiki/User:Carlossuarez46" title="User:Carlossuarez46">Carlossuarez46</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_July_5#c-Carlossuarez46-2007-07-06T00:32:00.000Z-Category:Signatory_of_"A_Scientific_Dissent_From_Darwinism"" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:32, 6 July 2007 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li> <li>Comment Alright, I've moved the names to a <a href="/wiki/List_of_signatories_to_%22A_Scientific_Dissent_From_Darwinism%22" class="mw-redirect" title="List of signatories to "A Scientific Dissent From Darwinism"">list</a>, as seems to be consensus of this discussion. <a href="/wiki/User:ConfuciusOrnis" title="User:ConfuciusOrnis">ornis</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_July_5#c-ConfuciusOrnis-2007-07-06T00:43:00.000Z-Category:Signatory_of_"A_Scientific_Dissent_From_Darwinism"" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:43, 6 July 2007 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li> <li>Strong Keep When the list is complete, it will have many more than 30 entries. This is being done gradually because of the effort involved. For most of these people, signing this list is one of the main things that makes them notable, because it identifies them as being a leader or prominent member of the <a href="/wiki/Intelligent_design_movement" title="Intelligent design movement">intelligent design movement</a>. For most of these people, that is the only reason they are notable.--<a href="/wiki/User:Filll" title="User:Filll">Filll</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_July_5#c-Filll-2007-07-06T00:47:00.000Z-Category:Signatory_of_"A_Scientific_Dissent_From_Darwinism"" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:47, 6 July 2007 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li></ul> <dl><dd><dl><dd>Comment/Listify. Filll, isn't your last point actually an argument for deleting the category? If most people are only notable because they are signatories, would this justify a whole category? I think that Ornis' idea of making a list is better. More background info about the signatories can be added easily. Information that is not covered in the original <a href="/wiki/Discovery_Institute" title="Discovery Institute">Discovery Institute</a> list. <a href="/wiki/User:Northfox" title="User:Northfox">Northfox</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_July_5#c-Northfox-2007-07-06T05:27:00.000Z-Filll-2007-07-06T00:47:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">05:27, 6 July 2007 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd><dl><dd>Response: No, I disagree. It is possible that some of the signatories are not notable for this reason, but not the category itself. However, since this is a very important component of the Discovery Institute campaigns and the most celebrated and longest of the half dozen or more creationist lists of its kind, this list is unique and special and I think deserves to be singled out.--<a href="/wiki/User:Filll" title="User:Filll">Filll</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_July_5#c-Filll-2007-07-06T14:10:00.000Z-Northfox-2007-07-06T05:27:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">14:10, 6 July 2007 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd> <dd>Comment: Their anti-evolutionary/Creationist advocacy is generally what makes them notable. Membership in this category is the most easily verifiable indication of such advocacy. If you want details on an individual signatory, it is easy enough to follow the link to the signatory's article. Being in this category is also a good indication of the signatory being on the fringe of science, and is useful information on the signatory, which would be lost if the category were to be replaced by a list. <a href="/wiki/User:Hrafn42" class="mw-redirect" title="User:Hrafn42">Hrafn42</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_July_5#c-Hrafn42-2007-07-06T05:39:00.000Z-Northfox-2007-07-06T05:27:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">05:39, 6 July 2007 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <ul><li>Strong Keep Being a signatory to this petition is a strong and verifiable indicator of affiliation to the <a href="/wiki/Intelligent_design_movement" title="Intelligent design movement">Intelligent design movement</a>. This is frequently "defining" as it tends to colour the signatory's views on <a href="/wiki/Methodological_naturalism" class="mw-redirect" title="Methodological naturalism">Methodological naturalism</a>, the <a href="/wiki/Scientific_method" title="Scientific method">Scientific method</a> and <a href="/wiki/Science" title="Science">Science</a>. <a href="/wiki/User:Hrafn42" class="mw-redirect" title="User:Hrafn42">Hrafn42</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_July_5#c-Hrafn42-2007-07-06T02:30:00.000Z-Category:Signatory_of_"A_Scientific_Dissent_From_Darwinism"" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:30, 6 July 2007 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li></ul> <dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd>Addendum: Of the 23 signatories currently in this category, 18 have mention in their articles of Creationist and/or ID affiliation or of anti-evolutionary statements, and one further signatory has his signing explicitly mentioned in the text of his article. Of the four remaining signatories, two hold otherwise idiosyncratic views on science (argued that living creatures do not obey the second law of thermodynamics, author of an anti-global warming petition). I think this is a good indication that the petition is "defining." <a href="/wiki/User:Hrafn42" class="mw-redirect" title="User:Hrafn42">Hrafn42</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_July_5#c-Hrafn42-2007-07-06T03:04:00.000Z-Hrafn42-2007-07-06T02:30:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">03:04, 6 July 2007 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd> <dd>Addendum: On further reflection, SDFD would be a subcategory of Anti-Evolutionists (should such a category be brought into existence) and, arguably of Pseudoscientists. It will contain (some, but never all) ID advocates (which, given that it is promoted by the DI, will be the largest group of notable signatories), Creationists affiliated to groups (e.g. ICR) unaffiliated to the ID movement, anti-evolutionists unaffiliated to any specific Creationist movement, and fringe/pseudo-scientists attached to a number of fringe/pseudo-scientific ideas. A list would be superfluous, such a list already exists maintained by the DI. What is useful is a category containing those signatories who are sufficiently notable to have articles on them on Wikipedia. Also useful is to have the category-tag on the signatory's articles, indicating that they are likely to have an idiosyncratic understanding of science, and that their opinions may be unreliable (and, as far as I know, this is the only PhD-only anti-Evolution petition, and undoubtedly the most notable one). It should thus be neither deleted, 'listified' nor merged with ID Advocates. <a href="/wiki/User:Hrafn42" class="mw-redirect" title="User:Hrafn42">Hrafn42</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_July_5#c-Hrafn42-2007-07-07T04:14:00.000Z-Hrafn42-2007-07-06T02:30:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">04:14, 7 July 2007 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <ul><li>Keep - as Hrafn42 mentioned, signing this petition is an important piece of information about the signatories - it puts them in a small group far outside of the scientific mainstream. Signing this petition is a very strong political statement and is highly informative about the signatories. <a href="/wiki/User:Guettarda" title="User:Guettarda">Guettarda</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_July_5#c-Guettarda-2007-07-06T03:28:00.000Z-Category:Signatory_of_"A_Scientific_Dissent_From_Darwinism"" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">03:28, 6 July 2007 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li> <li>Delete there are better ways of putting people in a category than simply whether or not they have signed a particular letter. this is enshrining the importance of the letter.It would be better to have a more generally named category, specifying the letter as one of the criteria for inclusion. <a href="/wiki/User:DGG" title="User:DGG">DGG</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_July_5#c-DGG-2007-07-06T03:33:00.000Z-Category:Signatory_of_"A_Scientific_Dissent_From_Darwinism"" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">03:33, 6 July 2007 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <ul><li><s>Comment: Any "generally named category" is likely to cause considerable ongoing controversy (as does anything not entirely cut-and-dry in the field of Creationism). The most likely candidate would be 'Intelligent design advocate,' but I have run into considerable disagreement in the past calling <a href="/wiki/Richard_Sternberg" class="mw-redirect" title="Richard Sternberg">Richard Sternberg</a> such, in spite of the fact that not only is he a signatory, but he is also a member of the ISCID & has presented at RAPID. A category with a simple, unambiguous, verifiable criteria for inclusion is best for this, IMO. <a href="/wiki/User:Hrafn42" class="mw-redirect" title="User:Hrafn42">Hrafn42</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_July_5#c-Hrafn42-2007-07-06T08:56:00.000Z-DGG-2007-07-06T03:33:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">08:56, 6 July 2007 (UTC)</a></s>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li></ul></li> <li>Strong Keep Per Hrafn, Filll, and Guettarda. This is critical reference material for several articles. <a href="/wiki/User:Orangemarlin" title="User:Orangemarlin">Orangemarlin</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_July_5#c-Orangemarlin-2007-07-06T03:38:00.000Z-Category:Signatory_of_"A_Scientific_Dissent_From_Darwinism"" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">03:38, 6 July 2007 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li> <li>Comment: Of the those expressing an opinion to date, those who I remember as being active on the <a href="/wiki/A_Scientific_Dissent_From_Darwinism" class="mw-redirect" title="A Scientific Dissent From Darwinism">A Scientific Dissent From Darwinism</a> parent article and/or other Creationism-related articles have been consistently in favour of keeping the article, I do not remember any of the editors in favour of deletion as being active in these areas. Odd. <a href="/wiki/User:Hrafn42" class="mw-redirect" title="User:Hrafn42">Hrafn42</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_July_5#c-Hrafn42-2007-07-06T04:52:00.000Z-Category:Signatory_of_"A_Scientific_Dissent_From_Darwinism"" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">04:52, 6 July 2007 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <ul><li>Comment - The editors in favor of deletion are all people who frequently work on general category maintenance or who regularly comment on WP:CFD discussions. We have seen a lot of categories like this one. Occasionally, editors from a specific project do not realize that their categorization scheme goes against the convention used at Wikipedia or that their categories are poorly named. This then leads to debates like this one here at Wikipedia. Does this explain the disagreement? (The nature of the debate here may be comparable to the "retired NASCAR drivers" category that was merged into its parent category a few months ago. Several people from a NASCAR WikiProject protested the idea, but other WP:CFD regulars indicated that the division of people into "retired" and "active" people was against convention for Wikipedia in general.) <a href="/wiki/User:Dr._Submillimeter" title="User:Dr. Submillimeter">Dr. Submillimeter</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_July_5#c-Dr._Submillimeter-2007-07-06T07:48:00.000Z-Hrafn42-2007-07-06T04:52:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">07:48, 6 July 2007 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <ul><li>Comment: "Does this explain the disagreement?" No it does not. (1) Why was this nomination-for-deletion not notified on <a href="/wiki/Talk:A_Scientific_Dissent_From_Darwinism" class="mw-redirect" title="Talk:A Scientific Dissent From Darwinism">Talk:A Scientific Dissent From Darwinism</a>? (2) How is this category "against the convention used at Wikipedia"? (3) What efforts did these "people who frequently work on general category maintenance or who regularly comment on WP:CFD discussions" go to to familiarise themselves with the place of the SDFD in the ID movement, before opining that it was "not defining" or just one of "every proclamation that these people signed" (neither characterisation strikes me as accurate)? Your comparison to NASCAR drivers seems to be way off point (beyond a somewhat patronising "we know best" implication; though I notice that there likewise, you fail to clearly identify which "convention" is being violated), which does not suggest a high understanding of the specifics of this category. <a href="/wiki/User:Hrafn42" class="mw-redirect" title="User:Hrafn42">Hrafn42</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_July_5#c-Hrafn42-2007-07-06T08:37:00.000Z-Dr._Submillimeter-2007-07-06T07:48:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">08:37, 6 July 2007 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <ul><li>Comment - 1) I do not understand why the nominator did not place a notification at <a href="/wiki/Talk:A_Scientific_Dissent_From_Darwinism" class="mw-redirect" title="Talk:A Scientific Dissent From Darwinism">Talk:A Scientific Dissent From Darwinism</a>. However, talk pages for specific articles are not always the best place to leave notifications about WP:CFD discussions. (WikiProjects and possibly individual editors' pages are better notification areas.) 2) Most people are not categorized as to whether they signed specific documents, petitions, etc., although people are categorized as advocates of specific issues. This category simply seems too specific. 3) I do not know about other people, but I did look at <a href="/wiki/A_Scientific_Dissent_From_Darwinism" class="mw-redirect" title="A Scientific Dissent From Darwinism">A Scientific Dissent From Darwinism</a> briefly. I really do not see the difference between that document and any other document that anyone else signs in favor of anything else (with the exceptions of a few documents (the <a href="/wiki/United_States_Declaration_of_Independence" title="United States Declaration of Independence">United States Declaration of Independence</a> and the <a href="/wiki/United_States_Constitution" class="mw-redirect" title="United States Constitution">United States Constitution</a>, for example). I would also nominate for deletion a similar category for anti-creationists who signed any specific document. This category is just too much detail on how these people are intelligent design advocates. <a href="/wiki/User:Dr._Submillimeter" title="User:Dr. Submillimeter">Dr. Submillimeter</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_July_5#c-Dr._Submillimeter-2007-07-06T10:21:00.000Z-Hrafn42-2007-07-06T08:37:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">10:21, 6 July 2007 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <ul><li>Comment"However, talk pages for specific articles are not always the best place to leave notifications about WP:CFD discussions. (WikiProjects and possibly individual editors' pages are better notification areas.)" As far as I can tell (from inspecting their contributions), the nominator did not notify this nomination anywhere other than placing the CFD template in the category page itself. This leads to the implication that CFD runs as a 'closed shop,' with little consultation of the users of the categories that they are 'discussing.' I think this cavalier attitude needs modification. <a href="/wiki/User:Hrafn42" class="mw-redirect" title="User:Hrafn42">Hrafn42</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_July_5#c-Hrafn42-2007-07-08T06:23:00.000Z-Dr._Submillimeter-2007-07-06T10:21:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">06:23, 8 July 2007 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li></ul></li></ul></li></ul></li></ul></li> <li>Keep It's notable and useful, the only two criteria that matter. <a href="/wiki/User:FeloniousMonk" title="User:FeloniousMonk">FeloniousMonk</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_July_5#c-FeloniousMonk-2007-07-06T05:25:00.000Z-Category:Signatory_of_"A_Scientific_Dissent_From_Darwinism"" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">05:25, 6 July 2007 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li> <li>Delete per DGG and the Dr, although the fact should be mentioned in all the relevant articles, with explanations for those who have subsequently said they thought it was something other than it is. The list is potentially much more useful. <a href="/wiki/User:Johnbod" title="User:Johnbod">Johnbod</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_July_5#c-Johnbod-2007-07-06T10:51:00.000Z-Category:Signatory_of_"A_Scientific_Dissent_From_Darwinism"" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">10:51, 6 July 2007 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li> <li>keep per Guettarda. (although Dr. Submillimeter makes a good argument for merging) <a href="/wiki/User:JoshuaZ" title="User:JoshuaZ">JoshuaZ</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_July_5#c-JoshuaZ-2007-07-06T13:26:00.000Z-Category:Signatory_of_"A_Scientific_Dissent_From_Darwinism"" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">13:26, 6 July 2007 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li> <li>Merge into <a href="/wiki/Category:Intelligent_design_advocates" title="Category:Intelligent design advocates">Category:Intelligent design advocates</a> I agree with Doc's reasoning above. Presumably anybody or almost anybody who signed this document is also an active Intelligent design advocate, so merging into that category makes sense. The actual literal signatories themselves should be done as a list, though, not as a category because it's quite possible for people to sign multiple petitions and advocate multiple political and scientific positions. Prolific or famous individuals in particular will have their name affiliated with potentially hundreds of causes, and if you were to create individual categories for every major petition they signed and event they took part in it would create a massive category clutter. Moreover signing a major petition is similar in many ways to being an active member of a voluntary organization, and in most cases we use list articles, not categories, to identify members of organizations. <a href="/wiki/User:Dugwiki" title="User:Dugwiki">Dugwiki</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_July_5#c-Dugwiki-2007-07-06T15:04:00.000Z-Category:Signatory_of_"A_Scientific_Dissent_From_Darwinism"" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:04, 6 July 2007 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <ul><li>Comment: Not all SDFD signatories are ID advocates (see my 2nd addendum above), nor are all ID advocates SDFD signatories (as many lack the qualifying PhD). Also, I suspect it is unlikely that signatories of it would be "affiliated with potentially hundreds of causes," but rather with a small number of fringe/pseudo-scientific and/or Religious Right causes often closely correlated with anti-evolutionism/creationism (e.g. HIV/AIDS-denial, Global Warming denial). <a href="/wiki/User:Hrafn42" class="mw-redirect" title="User:Hrafn42">Hrafn42</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_July_5#c-Hrafn42-2007-07-07T04:37:00.000Z-Dugwiki-2007-07-06T15:04:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">04:37, 7 July 2007 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <ul><li>Comment. No merge. A merge would be inaccurate and useless as not all members of Category:Signatory of "A Scientific Dissent From Darwinism" would be members of Category:Intelligent design advocates, and having all the signatories of "A Scientific Dissent From Darwinism" who have Wikipedia articles in one category is very handy; remember, information wants to be useful. <a href="/wiki/User:FeloniousMonk" title="User:FeloniousMonk">FeloniousMonk</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_July_5#c-FeloniousMonk-2007-07-08T03:52:00.000Z-Hrafn42-2007-07-07T04:37:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">03:52, 8 July 2007 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <ul><li>Comment - I would believe that this was true if <a href="/w/index.php?title=Category:Signatory_of_%22A_Scientific_Dissent_From_Darwinism%22&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category:Signatory of "A Scientific Dissent From Darwinism" (page does not exist)">Category:Signatory of "A Scientific Dissent From Darwinism"</a> was not a subcategory of <a href="/wiki/Category:Intelligent_design" title="Category:Intelligent design">Category:Intelligent design</a>. However, givfen that the signatory category is a subcategory of the intelligent design category, I am forced to conclude that these people are intelligent design advocates. <a href="/wiki/User:Dr._Submillimeter" title="User:Dr. Submillimeter">Dr. Submillimeter</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_July_5#c-Dr._Submillimeter-2007-07-08T07:03:00.000Z-FeloniousMonk-2007-07-08T03:52:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">07:03, 8 July 2007 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <ul><li>Comment: Submillimeter is incorrect. Over one quarter of the current members of this category are not known ID advocates: <a href="/wiki/John_Baumgardner" title="John Baumgardner">John Baumgardner</a> (a member of the <a href="/wiki/Institute_for_Creation_Research" title="Institute for Creation Research">Institute for Creation Research</a>, an organisation which rejects ID's stripped-down <a href="/wiki/Neo-creationism" title="Neo-creationism">Neo-creationism</a>), <a href="/wiki/Maciej_Giertych" title="Maciej Giertych">Maciej Giertych</a>, <a href="/wiki/Israel_Hanukoglu" title="Israel Hanukoglu">Israel Hanukoglu</a>, <a href="/wiki/Mae-Wan_Ho" title="Mae-Wan Ho">Mae-Wan Ho</a>, <a href="/wiki/Arthur_B._Robinson" class="mw-redirect" title="Arthur B. Robinson">Arthur B. Robinson</a>, <a href="/wiki/James_Tour" title="James Tour">James Tour</a>. <a href="/wiki/User:Hrafn42" class="mw-redirect" title="User:Hrafn42">Hrafn42</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_July_5#c-Hrafn42-2007-07-08T07:40:00.000Z-Dr._Submillimeter-2007-07-08T07:03:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">07:40, 8 July 2007 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <ul><li>Comment - Since some of the people do not specifically support intelligent design, I suggest having a separate category for creationism advocates. This signatory category is still set up to give the impression that these people specifically support intelligent design (as the signatory category is a subcategory of <a href="/wiki/Category:Intelligent_design" title="Category:Intelligent design">Category:Intelligent design</a>), and I am beginning to wonder if it is being used to somehow promote the standpoint of the <a href="/wiki/Discovery_Institute" title="Discovery Institute">Discovery Institute</a> over other pro-creationist groups. <a href="/wiki/User:Dr._Submillimeter" title="User:Dr. Submillimeter">Dr. Submillimeter</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_July_5#c-Dr._Submillimeter-2007-07-08T11:06:00.000Z-Hrafn42-2007-07-08T07:40:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">11:06, 8 July 2007 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <ul><li>Comment: The SDFD is a legitimate subcategory of ID because it is one of the <a href="/wiki/Discovery_Institute_intelligent_design_campaigns" title="Discovery Institute intelligent design campaigns">Discovery Institute intelligent design campaigns</a>(<a href="/wiki/Category:Discovery_Institute_campaigns" title="Category:Discovery Institute campaigns">Category:Discovery Institute campaigns</a>). That does not mean that all signatories are ID advocates, or even explicit Creationists (only two of the six I listed above are). ID <a href="/wiki/Neo-creationism" title="Neo-creationism">Neo-creationism</a> is a strategic position rather than a theological one. Some <a href="/wiki/Young_Earth_Creationism" class="mw-redirect" title="Young Earth Creationism">Young Earth Creationists</a> agree with that strategy and have joined ID's 'big tent,' others disagree and remain in organisations outside the 'tent' (e.g. ICR, <a href="/wiki/Answers_in_Genesis" title="Answers in Genesis">Answers in Genesis</a>), but sharing an opposition to Evolution (which is why some of them, as well as anti-evolutionists with no known Creationist ties, are willing to sign the SDFD). While the DI is not the only Creationist organisation active, it has by far the highest recent profile, being involved in <a href="/wiki/Kitzmiller_v._Dover_Area_School_District" title="Kitzmiller v. Dover Area School District">Kitzmiller v. Dover Area School District</a>, the <a href="/wiki/Kansas_evolution_hearings" title="Kansas evolution hearings">Kansas evolution hearings</a>, and the <a href="/wiki/Santorum_Amendment" title="Santorum Amendment">Santorum Amendment</a>, as well as numerous lesser controversies. <a href="/wiki/User:Hrafn42" class="mw-redirect" title="User:Hrafn42">Hrafn42</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_July_5#c-Hrafn42-2007-07-08T13:49:00.000Z-Dr._Submillimeter-2007-07-08T11:06:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">13:49, 8 July 2007 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li></ul></li></ul></li></ul></li></ul></li></ul></li></ul></li> <li>Keep And the existing name is accurate and useful. <a href="/wiki/User:Odd_nature" title="User:Odd nature">Odd nature</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_July_5#c-Odd_nature-2007-07-06T21:12:00.000Z-Category:Signatory_of_"A_Scientific_Dissent_From_Darwinism"" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:12, 6 July 2007 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li> <li>Delete and listify. Non-definitive, and irrelevant to the specific fields of expertise of most of the signatories. -<a href="/wiki/User:Gtrmp" title="User:Gtrmp">Sean Curtin</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_July_5#c-Gtrmp-2007-07-09T01:50:00.000Z-Category:Signatory_of_"A_Scientific_Dissent_From_Darwinism"" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:50, 9 July 2007 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li> <li>Keep This kind of thing is good evidence that the insanity of the Creationists has infected the anti-Creationists. <a href="/wiki/User:Steve_Dufour" title="User:Steve Dufour">Steve Dufour</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_July_5#c-Steve_Dufour-2007-07-09T05:44:00.000Z-Category:Signatory_of_"A_Scientific_Dissent_From_Darwinism"" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">05:44, 9 July 2007 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li></ul> <hr/> <dl><dd>The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Deletion_review" title="Wikipedia:Deletion review">deletion review</a>). No further edits should be made to this section.</dd></dl></div> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading4"><h4 id="Category:Pages_Needing_to_be_Archived" data-mw-thread-id="h-Category:Pages_Needing_to_be_Archived-July_5-2007-07-05T00:14:00.000Z">Category:Pages Needing to be Archived</h4>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_July_5&action=edit&section=27" title="Edit section: Category:Pages Needing to be Archived">edit</a>]</div> <div class="boilerplate vfd" style="background:#bff9fc; margin:0 auto; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #AAAAAA;"> <dl><dd>The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Deletion_review" title="Wikipedia:Deletion review">deletion review</a>). No further edits should be made to this section.</dd></dl> <dl><dd>The result of the discussion was: rename. <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Radiant!" title="User talk:Radiant!">>Radiant<</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_July_5#c-Radiant!-2007-07-10T13:32:00.000Z-Category:Pages_Needing_to_be_Archived" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">13:32, 10 July 2007 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd> <dd>Propose renaming <a href="/w/index.php?title=Category:Pages_Needing_to_be_Archived&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category:Pages Needing to be Archived (page does not exist)">Category:Pages Needing to be Archived</a> to <a href="/w/index.php?title=Category:Talk_pages_needing_to_be_archived&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category:Talk pages needing to be archived (page does not exist)">Category:Talk pages needing to be archived</a></dd> <dd>Nominator's rationale: I would nominate this for speedy renaming due to its capitalization, but I think the word "talk" should be added for clarity. <a href="/wiki/User:Szyslak" title="User:Szyslak">szyslak</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_July_5#c-Szyslak-2007-07-05T00:14:00.000Z-Category:Pages_Needing_to_be_Archived" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:14, 5 July 2007 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl> <ul><li>Rename per nom. <a href="/wiki/User:Piccadilly" title="User:Piccadilly">Piccadilly</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_July_5#c-Piccadilly-2007-07-05T14:41:00.000Z-Category:Pages_Needing_to_be_Archived" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">14:41, 5 July 2007 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li></ul> <s>*Question - isn't it up to the owner of the talk page to decide whether or not to archive it? <a href="/wiki/User:Otto4711" title="User:Otto4711">Otto4711</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_July_5#c-Otto4711-2007-07-05T18:32:00.000Z-Category:Pages_Needing_to_be_Archived" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:32, 5 July 2007 (UTC)</a></s>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <ul><li>Rename - per nom. Never mind, for some reason I was thinking this was about specifically user talk pages. <a href="/wiki/User:Otto4711" title="User:Otto4711">Otto4711</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_July_5#c-Otto4711-2007-07-05T19:18:00.000Z-Otto4711-2007-07-05T18:32:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:18, 5 July 2007 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li></ul> <hr/> <dl><dd>The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Deletion_review" title="Wikipedia:Deletion review">deletion review</a>). No further edits should be made to this section.</dd></dl></div>    </div><noscript><img src="https://login.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:CentralAutoLogin/start?type=1x1" alt="" width="1" height="1" style="border: none; position: absolute;"></noscript> <div class="printfooter" data-nosnippet="">Retrieved from "<a dir="ltr" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_July_5&oldid=1078526266">https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_July_5&oldid=1078526266</a>"</div></div> <div id="catlinks" class="catlinks catlinks-allhidden" data-mw="interface"></div> </div> </main> </div> <div class="mw-footer-container"> <footer id="footer" class="mw-footer" > <ul id="footer-info"> <li id="footer-info-lastmod"> This page was last edited on 22 March 2022, at 01:17 (UTC).</li> <li id="footer-info-copyright">Text is available under the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Text_of_the_Creative_Commons_Attribution-ShareAlike_4.0_International_License" title="Wikipedia:Text of the Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike 4.0 International License">Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike 4.0 License</a>; additional terms may apply. By using this site, you agree to the <a href="https://foundation.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:MyLanguage/Policy:Terms_of_Use" class="extiw" title="foundation:Special:MyLanguage/Policy:Terms of Use">Terms of Use</a> and <a href="https://foundation.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:MyLanguage/Policy:Privacy_policy" class="extiw" title="foundation:Special:MyLanguage/Policy:Privacy policy">Privacy Policy</a>. Wikipedia® is a registered trademark of the <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://wikimediafoundation.org/">Wikimedia Foundation, Inc.</a>, a non-profit organization.</li> </ul> <ul id="footer-places"> <li id="footer-places-privacy"><a href="https://foundation.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:MyLanguage/Policy:Privacy_policy">Privacy policy</a></li> <li id="footer-places-about"><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:About">About Wikipedia</a></li> <li id="footer-places-disclaimers"><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:General_disclaimer">Disclaimers</a></li> <li id="footer-places-contact"><a href="//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Contact_us">Contact Wikipedia</a></li> <li id="footer-places-wm-codeofconduct"><a href="https://foundation.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:MyLanguage/Policy:Universal_Code_of_Conduct">Code of Conduct</a></li> <li id="footer-places-developers"><a href="https://developer.wikimedia.org">Developers</a></li> <li id="footer-places-statslink"><a href="https://stats.wikimedia.org/#/en.wikipedia.org">Statistics</a></li> <li id="footer-places-cookiestatement"><a href="https://foundation.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:MyLanguage/Policy:Cookie_statement">Cookie statement</a></li> <li id="footer-places-mobileview"><a href="//en.m.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_July_5&mobileaction=toggle_view_mobile" class="noprint stopMobileRedirectToggle">Mobile view</a></li> </ul> <ul id="footer-icons" class="noprint"> <li id="footer-copyrightico"><a href="https://wikimediafoundation.org/" class="cdx-button cdx-button--fake-button cdx-button--size-large cdx-button--fake-button--enabled"><img src="/static/images/footer/wikimedia-button.svg" width="84" height="29" alt="Wikimedia Foundation" loading="lazy"></a></li> <li id="footer-poweredbyico"><a href="https://www.mediawiki.org/" class="cdx-button cdx-button--fake-button cdx-button--size-large cdx-button--fake-button--enabled"><img src="/w/resources/assets/poweredby_mediawiki.svg" alt="Powered by MediaWiki" width="88" height="31" loading="lazy"></a></li> </ul> </footer> </div> </div> </div> <div class="vector-settings" id="p-dock-bottom"> <ul></ul> </div><script>(RLQ=window.RLQ||[]).push(function(){mw.config.set({"wgHostname":"mw-web.codfw.main-847495b4dd-2n5kv","wgBackendResponseTime":154,"wgDiscussionToolsPageThreads":[{"headingLevel":3,"name":"h-Szyslak-2007-07-05T00:14:00.000Z","type":"heading","level":0,"id":"h-July_5-2007-07-05T00:14:00.000Z","replies":[{"headingLevel":4,"name":"h-Kranar_drogin-2007-07-05T23:52:00.000Z","type":"heading","level":0,"id":"h-Category:Chicago_politicians-July_5-2007-07-05T23:52:00.000Z","replies":[{"timestamp":"2007-07-10T13:32:00.000Z","author":"Radiant!","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Radiant!-2007-07-10T13:32:00.000Z-Category:Chicago_politicians","replies":[]},{"timestamp":"2007-07-05T23:52:00.000Z","author":"Kranar drogin","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Kranar_drogin-2007-07-05T23:52:00.000Z-Category:Chicago_politicians","replies":[]},{"timestamp":"2007-07-05T23:58:00.000Z","author":"Nathanian","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Nathanian-2007-07-05T23:58:00.000Z-Category:Chicago_politicians","replies":[]},{"timestamp":"2007-07-06T00:13:00.000Z","author":"Kranar drogin","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Kranar_drogin-2007-07-06T00:13:00.000Z-Category:Chicago_politicians","replies":[]},{"timestamp":"2007-07-06T00:10:00.000Z","author":"Vegaswikian","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Vegaswikian-2007-07-06T00:10:00.000Z-Category:Chicago_politicians","replies":[{"timestamp":"2007-07-06T05:35:00.000Z","author":"Vegaswikian","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Vegaswikian-2007-07-06T05:35:00.000Z-Vegaswikian-2007-07-06T00:10:00.000Z","replies":[]}]},{"timestamp":"2007-07-06T00:19:00.000Z","author":"Carlossuarez46","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Carlossuarez46-2007-07-06T00:19:00.000Z-Category:Chicago_politicians","replies":[]},{"timestamp":"2007-07-06T13:04:00.000Z","author":"Ravenhurst","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Ravenhurst-2007-07-06T13:04:00.000Z-Category:Chicago_politicians","replies":[]}]},{"headingLevel":4,"name":"h-TedFrank-2007-07-05T23:02:00.000Z","type":"heading","level":0,"id":"h-Category:Lists_of_journalists-July_5-2007-07-05T23:02:00.000Z","replies":[{"timestamp":"2007-07-10T13:32:00.000Z","author":"Radiant!","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Radiant!-2007-07-10T13:32:00.000Z-Category:Lists_of_journalists","replies":[]},{"timestamp":"2007-07-05T23:02:00.000Z","author":"TedFrank","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-TedFrank-2007-07-05T23:02:00.000Z-Category:Lists_of_journalists","replies":[],"displayName":"THF"},{"timestamp":"2007-07-05T23:59:00.000Z","author":"Nathanian","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Nathanian-2007-07-05T23:59:00.000Z-Category:Lists_of_journalists","replies":[]},{"timestamp":"2007-07-06T00:55:00.000Z","author":"Johnbod","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Johnbod-2007-07-06T00:55:00.000Z-Category:Lists_of_journalists","replies":[]}]},{"headingLevel":4,"name":"h-Otto4711-2007-07-05T21:10:00.000Z","type":"heading","level":0,"id":"h-Eponymous_band_categories_-_W-July_5-2007-07-05T21:10:00.000Z","replies":[{"timestamp":"2007-07-05T21:10:00.000Z","author":"Otto4711","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Otto4711-2007-07-05T21:10:00.000Z-Eponymous_band_categories_-_W","replies":[]},{"timestamp":"2007-07-05T23:45:00.000Z","author":"Nathanian","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Nathanian-2007-07-05T23:45:00.000Z-Eponymous_band_categories_-_W","replies":[{"timestamp":"2007-07-06T00:01:00.000Z","author":"Otto4711","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Otto4711-2007-07-06T00:01:00.000Z-Nathanian-2007-07-05T23:45:00.000Z","replies":[]}]},{"timestamp":"2007-07-06T00:20:00.000Z","author":"Carlossuarez46","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Carlossuarez46-2007-07-06T00:20:00.000Z-Eponymous_band_categories_-_W","replies":[]},{"timestamp":"2007-07-06T14:57:00.000Z","author":"Dugwiki","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Dugwiki-2007-07-06T14:57:00.000Z-Eponymous_band_categories_-_W","replies":[]},{"timestamp":"2007-07-09T06:35:00.000Z","author":"Xtifr","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Xtifr-2007-07-09T06:35:00.000Z-Eponymous_band_categories_-_W","replies":[]}]},{"headingLevel":4,"name":"h-Vegaswikian-2007-07-05T20:46:00.000Z","type":"heading","level":0,"id":"h-Category:Buses_in_Hong_Kong-July_5-2007-07-05T20:46:00.000Z","replies":[{"timestamp":"2007-07-10T13:32:00.000Z","author":"Radiant!","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Radiant!-2007-07-10T13:32:00.000Z-Category:Buses_in_Hong_Kong","replies":[]},{"timestamp":"2007-07-05T20:46:00.000Z","author":"Vegaswikian","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Vegaswikian-2007-07-05T20:46:00.000Z-Category:Buses_in_Hong_Kong","replies":[]}]},{"headingLevel":4,"name":"h-Vegaswikian-2007-07-05T20:38:00.000Z","type":"heading","level":0,"id":"h-Category:Bus_companies-July_5-2007-07-05T20:38:00.000Z","replies":[{"timestamp":"2007-07-10T13:32:00.000Z","author":"Radiant!","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Radiant!-2007-07-10T13:32:00.000Z-Category:Bus_companies","replies":[]},{"timestamp":"2007-07-05T20:38:00.000Z","author":"Vegaswikian","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Vegaswikian-2007-07-05T20:38:00.000Z-Category:Bus_companies","replies":[]},{"timestamp":"2007-07-07T08:53:00.000Z","author":"Szyslak","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Szyslak-2007-07-07T08:53:00.000Z-Category:Bus_companies","replies":[]}]},{"headingLevel":4,"name":"h-EEMeltonIV-2007-07-05T19:28:00.000Z","type":"heading","level":0,"id":"h-Category:Fictional_characters_with_eidetic_memory-July_5-2007-07-05T19:28:00.000Z","replies":[{"timestamp":"2007-07-10T16:31:00.000Z","author":"Andrew c","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Andrew_c-2007-07-10T16:31:00.000Z-Category:Fictional_characters_with_eidetic_memory","replies":[{"timestamp":"2007-07-05T19:28:00.000Z","author":"EEMeltonIV","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-EEMeltonIV-2007-07-05T19:28:00.000Z-Andrew_c-2007-07-10T16:31:00.000Z","replies":[]},{"timestamp":"2007-07-05T21:25:00.000Z","author":"Philip Stevens","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Philip_Stevens-2007-07-05T21:25:00.000Z-Andrew_c-2007-07-10T16:31:00.000Z","replies":[{"timestamp":"2007-07-06T01:17:00.000Z","author":"EEMeltonIV","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-EEMeltonIV-2007-07-06T01:17:00.000Z-Philip_Stevens-2007-07-05T21:25:00.000Z","replies":[]}]},{"timestamp":"2007-07-06T22:35:00.000Z","author":"Piemanmoo","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Piemanmoo-2007-07-06T22:35:00.000Z-Andrew_c-2007-07-10T16:31:00.000Z","replies":[]},{"timestamp":"2007-07-08T16:43:00.000Z","author":"Wryspy","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Wryspy-2007-07-08T16:43:00.000Z-Andrew_c-2007-07-10T16:31:00.000Z","replies":[]}],"displayName":"Andrew c"}]},{"headingLevel":4,"name":"h-Æthelwold-2007-07-05T17:49:00.000Z","type":"heading","level":0,"id":"h-Category:Early_(pre-1914)_Association_Football_players-July_5-2007-07-05T17:49:00.000Z","replies":[{"timestamp":"2007-07-11T14:05:00.000Z","author":"Kbdank71","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Kbdank71-2007-07-11T14:05:00.000Z-Category:Early_(pre-1914)_Association_Football_players","replies":[{"timestamp":"2007-07-05T17:49:00.000Z","author":"Æthelwold","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Æthelwold-2007-07-05T17:49:00.000Z-Kbdank71-2007-07-11T14:05:00.000Z","replies":[]},{"timestamp":"2007-07-10T13:32:00.000Z","author":"Radiant!","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Radiant!-2007-07-10T13:32:00.000Z-Kbdank71-2007-07-11T14:05:00.000Z","replies":[]}]}]},{"headingLevel":4,"name":"h-Bulldog123-2007-07-05T15:58:00.000Z","type":"heading","level":0,"id":"h-Category:Films_about_coal_mining-July_5-2007-07-05T15:58:00.000Z","replies":[{"timestamp":"2007-07-10T13:32:00.000Z","author":"Radiant!","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Radiant!-2007-07-10T13:32:00.000Z-Category:Films_about_coal_mining","replies":[]},{"timestamp":"2007-07-05T15:58:00.000Z","author":"Bulldog123","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Bulldog123-2007-07-05T15:58:00.000Z-Category:Films_about_coal_mining","replies":[]},{"timestamp":"2007-07-05T16:07:00.000Z","author":"Dr. Submillimeter","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Dr._Submillimeter-2007-07-05T16:07:00.000Z-Category:Films_about_coal_mining","replies":[]},{"timestamp":"2007-07-05T23:49:00.000Z","author":"Nathanian","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Nathanian-2007-07-05T23:49:00.000Z-Category:Films_about_coal_mining","replies":[{"timestamp":"2007-07-06T00:18:00.000Z","author":"Vegaswikian","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Vegaswikian-2007-07-06T00:18:00.000Z-Nathanian-2007-07-05T23:49:00.000Z","replies":[]},{"timestamp":"2007-07-06T07:37:00.000Z","author":"Dr. Submillimeter","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Dr._Submillimeter-2007-07-06T07:37:00.000Z-Nathanian-2007-07-05T23:49:00.000Z","replies":[]}]},{"timestamp":"2007-07-06T00:23:00.000Z","author":"Carlossuarez46","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Carlossuarez46-2007-07-06T00:23:00.000Z-Category:Films_about_coal_mining","replies":[]}]},{"headingLevel":4,"name":"h-Bulldog123-2007-07-05T15:55:00.000Z","type":"heading","level":0,"id":"h-Category:Films_about_cooking-July_5-2007-07-05T15:55:00.000Z","replies":[{"timestamp":"2007-07-10T13:32:00.000Z","author":"Radiant!","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Radiant!-2007-07-10T13:32:00.000Z-Category:Films_about_cooking","replies":[]},{"timestamp":"2007-07-05T15:55:00.000Z","author":"Bulldog123","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Bulldog123-2007-07-05T15:55:00.000Z-Category:Films_about_cooking","replies":[]},{"timestamp":"2007-07-05T16:08:00.000Z","author":"Dr. Submillimeter","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Dr._Submillimeter-2007-07-05T16:08:00.000Z-Category:Films_about_cooking","replies":[]},{"timestamp":"2007-07-05T23:50:00.000Z","author":"Nathanian","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Nathanian-2007-07-05T23:50:00.000Z-Category:Films_about_cooking","replies":[]},{"timestamp":"2007-07-06T00:24:00.000Z","author":"Carlossuarez46","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Carlossuarez46-2007-07-06T00:24:00.000Z-Category:Films_about_cooking","replies":[]},{"timestamp":"2007-07-08T16:44:00.000Z","author":"Wryspy","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Wryspy-2007-07-08T16:44:00.000Z-Category:Films_about_cooking","replies":[]}]},{"headingLevel":4,"name":"h-PC78-2007-07-05T15:21:00.000Z","type":"heading","level":0,"id":"h-Category:Occupation_films-July_5-2007-07-05T15:21:00.000Z","replies":[{"timestamp":"2007-07-10T13:32:00.000Z","author":"Radiant!","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Radiant!-2007-07-10T13:32:00.000Z-Category:Occupation_films","replies":[]},{"timestamp":"2007-07-05T15:21:00.000Z","author":"PC78","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-PC78-2007-07-05T15:21:00.000Z-Category:Occupation_films","replies":[]},{"timestamp":"2007-07-05T15:50:00.000Z","author":"Bulldog123","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Bulldog123-2007-07-05T15:50:00.000Z-Category:Occupation_films","replies":[]},{"timestamp":"2007-07-05T17:51:00.000Z","author":"Æthelwold","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Æthelwold-2007-07-05T17:51:00.000Z-Category:Occupation_films","replies":[]},{"timestamp":"2007-07-05T18:37:00.000Z","author":"Otto4711","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Otto4711-2007-07-05T18:37:00.000Z-Category:Occupation_films","replies":[]},{"timestamp":"2007-07-06T00:27:00.000Z","author":"Carlossuarez46","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Carlossuarez46-2007-07-06T00:27:00.000Z-Category:Occupation_films","replies":[]},{"timestamp":"2007-07-08T16:46:00.000Z","author":"Wryspy","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Wryspy-2007-07-08T16:46:00.000Z-Category:Occupation_films","replies":[]}]},{"headingLevel":4,"name":"h-Govvy-2007-07-05T13:39:00.000Z","type":"heading","level":0,"id":"h-Category:Tottenham_Hotspur_F.C._fans-July_5-2007-07-05T13:39:00.000Z","replies":[{"timestamp":"2007-07-10T13:32:00.000Z","author":"Radiant!","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Radiant!-2007-07-10T13:32:00.000Z-Category:Tottenham_Hotspur_F.C._fans","replies":[]},{"timestamp":"2007-07-05T13:39:00.000Z","author":"Govvy","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Govvy-2007-07-05T13:39:00.000Z-Category:Tottenham_Hotspur_F.C._fans","replies":[]},{"timestamp":"2007-07-05T14:38:00.000Z","author":"Piccadilly","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Piccadilly-2007-07-05T14:38:00.000Z-Category:Tottenham_Hotspur_F.C._fans","replies":[]}]},{"headingLevel":4,"name":"h-ProveIt-2007-07-05T13:36:00.000Z","type":"heading","level":0,"id":"h-Category:Major_Doctor_Who_Villains-July_5-2007-07-05T13:36:00.000Z","replies":[{"timestamp":"2007-07-10T13:32:00.000Z","author":"Radiant!","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Radiant!-2007-07-10T13:32:00.000Z-Category:Major_Doctor_Who_Villains","replies":[]},{"timestamp":"2007-07-05T13:36:00.000Z","author":"ProveIt","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-ProveIt-2007-07-05T13:36:00.000Z-Category:Major_Doctor_Who_Villains","replies":[],"displayName":"Prove It"},{"timestamp":"2007-07-05T13:58:00.000Z","author":"Otto4711","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Otto4711-2007-07-05T13:58:00.000Z-Category:Major_Doctor_Who_Villains","replies":[]},{"timestamp":"2007-07-05T14:39:00.000Z","author":"Piccadilly","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Piccadilly-2007-07-05T14:39:00.000Z-Category:Major_Doctor_Who_Villains","replies":[{"timestamp":"2007-07-05T18:49:00.000Z","author":"Otto4711","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Otto4711-2007-07-05T18:49:00.000Z-Piccadilly-2007-07-05T14:39:00.000Z","replies":[]}]},{"timestamp":"2007-07-05T14:49:00.000Z","author":"Dr. Submillimeter","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Dr._Submillimeter-2007-07-05T14:49:00.000Z-Category:Major_Doctor_Who_Villains","replies":[]},{"timestamp":"2007-07-05T15:09:00.000Z","author":"Casperonline","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Casperonline-2007-07-05T15:09:00.000Z-Category:Major_Doctor_Who_Villains","replies":[]},{"timestamp":"2007-07-05T19:25:00.000Z","author":"Brian Olsen","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Brian_Olsen-2007-07-05T19:25:00.000Z-Category:Major_Doctor_Who_Villains","replies":[]},{"timestamp":"2007-07-05T23:56:00.000Z","author":"Nathanian","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Nathanian-2007-07-05T23:56:00.000Z-Category:Major_Doctor_Who_Villains","replies":[]},{"timestamp":"2007-07-07T20:11:00.000Z","author":"Dr.Who","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Dr.Who-2007-07-07T20:11:00.000Z-Category:Major_Doctor_Who_Villains","replies":[]},{"timestamp":"2007-07-10T04:27:00.000Z","author":"Mike Selinker","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Mike_Selinker-2007-07-10T04:27:00.000Z-Category:Major_Doctor_Who_Villains","replies":[]}]},{"headingLevel":4,"name":"h-","type":"heading","level":0,"id":"h-Category:Youth_Organizations_of_California-July_5","replies":[]},{"headingLevel":4,"name":"h-Wilchett-2007-07-05T13:35:00.000Z","type":"heading","level":0,"id":"h-Category:Youth_Organizations_of_San_Diego-July_5-2007-07-05T13:35:00.000Z","replies":[{"timestamp":"2007-07-10T13:32:00.000Z","author":"Radiant!","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Radiant!-2007-07-10T13:32:00.000Z-Category:Youth_Organizations_of_San_Diego","replies":[]},{"timestamp":"2007-07-05T13:35:00.000Z","author":"Wilchett","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Wilchett-2007-07-05T13:35:00.000Z-Category:Youth_Organizations_of_San_Diego","replies":[{"timestamp":"2007-07-05T13:39:00.000Z","author":"Wilchett","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Wilchett-2007-07-05T13:39:00.000Z-Wilchett-2007-07-05T13:35:00.000Z","replies":[]}]},{"timestamp":"2007-07-05T14:40:00.000Z","author":"Piccadilly","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Piccadilly-2007-07-05T14:40:00.000Z-Category:Youth_Organizations_of_San_Diego","replies":[]}]},{"headingLevel":4,"name":"h-ProveIt-2007-07-05T13:20:00.000Z","type":"heading","level":0,"id":"h-Category:Live_Action_films_based_on_Cartoons-July_5-2007-07-05T13:20:00.000Z","replies":[{"timestamp":"2007-07-10T13:32:00.000Z","author":"Radiant!","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Radiant!-2007-07-10T13:32:00.000Z-Category:Live_Action_films_based_on_Cartoons","replies":[]},{"timestamp":"2007-07-05T13:20:00.000Z","author":"ProveIt","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-ProveIt-2007-07-05T13:20:00.000Z-Category:Live_Action_films_based_on_Cartoons","replies":[],"displayName":"Prove It"},{"timestamp":"2007-07-05T15:09:00.000Z","author":"Casperonline","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Casperonline-2007-07-05T15:09:00.000Z-Category:Live_Action_films_based_on_Cartoons","replies":[]},{"timestamp":"2007-07-05T20:11:00.000Z","author":"Pegship","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Pegship-2007-07-05T20:11:00.000Z-Category:Live_Action_films_based_on_Cartoons","replies":[],"displayName":"Her Pegship"},{"timestamp":"2007-07-06T02:15:00.000Z","author":"Otto4711","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Otto4711-2007-07-06T02:15:00.000Z-Category:Live_Action_films_based_on_Cartoons","replies":[]},{"timestamp":"2007-07-07T08:33:00.000Z","author":"Xtifr","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Xtifr-2007-07-07T08:33:00.000Z-Category:Live_Action_films_based_on_Cartoons","replies":[]},{"timestamp":"2007-07-07T08:36:00.000Z","author":"EEMeltonIV","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-EEMeltonIV-2007-07-07T08:36:00.000Z-Category:Live_Action_films_based_on_Cartoons","replies":[{"timestamp":"2007-07-09T08:49:00.000Z","author":"Xtifr","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Xtifr-2007-07-09T08:49:00.000Z-EEMeltonIV-2007-07-07T08:36:00.000Z","replies":[]}]},{"timestamp":"2007-07-07T19:03:00.000Z","author":"Dr. Submillimeter","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Dr._Submillimeter-2007-07-07T19:03:00.000Z-Category:Live_Action_films_based_on_Cartoons","replies":[{"timestamp":"2007-07-09T09:18:00.000Z","author":"Dr. Submillimeter","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Dr._Submillimeter-2007-07-09T09:18:00.000Z-Dr._Submillimeter-2007-07-07T19:03:00.000Z","replies":[]}]},{"timestamp":"2007-07-07T20:29:00.000Z","author":"Doczilla","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Doczilla-2007-07-07T20:29:00.000Z-Category:Live_Action_films_based_on_Cartoons","replies":[{"timestamp":"2007-07-07T20:58:00.000Z","author":"Otto4711","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Otto4711-2007-07-07T20:58:00.000Z-Doczilla-2007-07-07T20:29:00.000Z","replies":[]},{"timestamp":"2007-07-08T07:05:00.000Z","author":"Wryspy","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Wryspy-2007-07-08T07:05:00.000Z-Doczilla-2007-07-07T20:29:00.000Z","replies":[{"timestamp":"2007-07-09T09:18:00.000Z","author":"Dr. Submillimeter","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Dr._Submillimeter-2007-07-09T09:18:00.000Z-Wryspy-2007-07-08T07:05:00.000Z","replies":[]},{"timestamp":"2007-07-08T16:42:00.000Z","author":"Wryspy","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Wryspy-2007-07-08T16:42:00.000Z-Wryspy-2007-07-08T07:05:00.000Z","replies":[{"timestamp":"2007-07-09T05:35:00.000Z","author":"J Greb","type":"comment","level":5,"id":"c-J_Greb-2007-07-09T05:35:00.000Z-Wryspy-2007-07-08T16:42:00.000Z","replies":[{"timestamp":"2007-07-09T09:18:00.000Z","author":"Dr. Submillimeter","type":"comment","level":6,"id":"c-Dr._Submillimeter-2007-07-09T09:18:00.000Z-J_Greb-2007-07-09T05:35:00.000Z","replies":[]}]}]}]}]}]},{"headingLevel":4,"name":"h-ProveIt-2007-07-05T12:58:00.000Z","type":"heading","level":0,"id":"h-Category:\"A\"_Film_Festivals-July_5-2007-07-05T12:58:00.000Z","replies":[{"timestamp":"2007-07-10T13:32:00.000Z","author":"Radiant!","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Radiant!-2007-07-10T13:32:00.000Z-Category:\"A\"_Film_Festivals","replies":[]},{"timestamp":"2007-07-05T12:58:00.000Z","author":"ProveIt","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-ProveIt-2007-07-05T12:58:00.000Z-Category:\"A\"_Film_Festivals","replies":[],"displayName":"Prove It"},{"timestamp":"2007-07-05T13:03:00.000Z","author":"Frecklefoot","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Frecklefoot-2007-07-05T13:03:00.000Z-Category:\"A\"_Film_Festivals","replies":[],"displayName":"Frecklefσσt"},{"timestamp":"2007-07-05T13:19:00.000Z","author":"Dr. Submillimeter","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Dr._Submillimeter-2007-07-05T13:19:00.000Z-Category:\"A\"_Film_Festivals","replies":[]},{"timestamp":"2007-07-05T15:08:00.000Z","author":"Casperonline","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Casperonline-2007-07-05T15:08:00.000Z-Category:\"A\"_Film_Festivals","replies":[]},{"timestamp":"2007-07-06T00:28:00.000Z","author":"Carlossuarez46","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Carlossuarez46-2007-07-06T00:28:00.000Z-Category:\"A\"_Film_Festivals","replies":[]},{"timestamp":"2007-07-06T19:45:00.000Z","author":"Xtifr","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Xtifr-2007-07-06T19:45:00.000Z-Category:\"A\"_Film_Festivals","replies":[]},{"timestamp":"2007-07-09T18:16:00.000Z","author":"Nick","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Nick-2007-07-09T18:16:00.000Z-Category:\"A\"_Film_Festivals","replies":[]}]},{"headingLevel":4,"name":"h-Otto4711-2007-07-05T12:32:00.000Z","type":"heading","level":0,"id":"h-Category:Homophobic_films-July_5-2007-07-05T12:32:00.000Z","replies":[{"timestamp":"2007-07-05T12:32:00.000Z","author":"Otto4711","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Otto4711-2007-07-05T12:32:00.000Z-Category:Homophobic_films","replies":[]},{"timestamp":"2007-07-05T13:13:00.000Z","author":"AshbyJnr","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-AshbyJnr-2007-07-05T13:13:00.000Z-Category:Homophobic_films","replies":[]},{"timestamp":"2007-07-05T16:38:00.000Z","author":"Quietvoice","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Quietvoice-2007-07-05T16:38:00.000Z-Category:Homophobic_films","replies":[]},{"timestamp":"2007-07-05T17:05:00.000Z","author":"Andrew c","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Andrew_c-2007-07-05T17:05:00.000Z-Category:Homophobic_films","replies":[],"displayName":"Andrew c"},{"timestamp":"2007-07-05T23:51:00.000Z","author":"Nathanian","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Nathanian-2007-07-05T23:51:00.000Z-Category:Homophobic_films","replies":[]},{"timestamp":"2007-07-06T00:29:00.000Z","author":"Carlossuarez46","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Carlossuarez46-2007-07-06T00:29:00.000Z-Category:Homophobic_films","replies":[]},{"timestamp":"2007-07-06T13:30:00.000Z","author":"Ibaranoff24","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Ibaranoff24-2007-07-06T13:30:00.000Z-Category:Homophobic_films","replies":[]},{"timestamp":"2007-07-06T15:39:00.000Z","author":"JoshuaZ","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-JoshuaZ-2007-07-06T15:39:00.000Z-Category:Homophobic_films","replies":[]},{"timestamp":"2007-07-06T22:33:00.000Z","author":"Piemanmoo","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Piemanmoo-2007-07-06T22:33:00.000Z-Category:Homophobic_films","replies":[]},{"timestamp":"2007-07-07T01:43:00.000Z","author":"Fordmadoxfraud","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Fordmadoxfraud-2007-07-07T01:43:00.000Z-Category:Homophobic_films","replies":[],"displayName":"Ford MF"},{"timestamp":"2007-07-08T07:02:00.000Z","author":"Wryspy","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Wryspy-2007-07-08T07:02:00.000Z-Category:Homophobic_films","replies":[]},{"timestamp":"2007-07-08T07:15:00.000Z","author":"SkierRMH","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-SkierRMH-2007-07-08T07:15:00.000Z-Category:Homophobic_films","replies":[]},{"timestamp":"2007-07-08T22:01:00.000Z","author":"Raymondluxuryacht","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Raymondluxuryacht-2007-07-08T22:01:00.000Z-Category:Homophobic_films","replies":[]},{"timestamp":"2007-07-09T02:31:00.000Z","author":"Stedder","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Stedder-2007-07-09T02:31:00.000Z-Category:Homophobic_films","replies":[],"displayName":"Tex"}]},{"headingLevel":4,"name":"h-Dr._Submillimeter-2007-07-05T09:29:00.000Z","type":"heading","level":0,"id":"h-Category:Historical_members_of_the_Executive_Council_of_New_Brunswick-July_5-2007-07-05T09:29:00.000Z","replies":[{"timestamp":"2007-07-10T13:32:00.000Z","author":"Radiant!","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Radiant!-2007-07-10T13:32:00.000Z-Category:Historical_members_of_the_Executive_Council_of_New_Brunswick","replies":[]},{"timestamp":"2007-07-05T09:29:00.000Z","author":"Dr. Submillimeter","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Dr._Submillimeter-2007-07-05T09:29:00.000Z-Category:Historical_members_of_the_Executive_Council_of_New_Brunswick","replies":[]},{"timestamp":"2007-07-05T15:06:00.000Z","author":"Casperonline","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Casperonline-2007-07-05T15:06:00.000Z-Category:Historical_members_of_the_Executive_Council_of_New_Brunswick","replies":[]}]},{"headingLevel":4,"name":"h-Dr._Submillimeter-2007-07-05T09:27:00.000Z","type":"heading","level":0,"id":"h-Category:Historical_women_who_lived_as_male-July_5-2007-07-05T09:27:00.000Z","replies":[{"timestamp":"2007-07-11T14:11:00.000Z","author":"Kbdank71","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Kbdank71-2007-07-11T14:11:00.000Z-Category:Historical_women_who_lived_as_male","replies":[{"timestamp":"2007-07-05T09:27:00.000Z","author":"Dr. Submillimeter","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Dr._Submillimeter-2007-07-05T09:27:00.000Z-Kbdank71-2007-07-11T14:11:00.000Z","replies":[]}]},{"timestamp":"2007-07-05T12:07:00.000Z","author":"Sonjaaa","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Sonjaaa-2007-07-05T12:07:00.000Z-Category:Historical_women_who_lived_as_male","replies":[{"timestamp":"2007-07-05T13:14:00.000Z","author":"Dr. Submillimeter","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Dr._Submillimeter-2007-07-05T13:14:00.000Z-Sonjaaa-2007-07-05T12:07:00.000Z","replies":[]},{"timestamp":"2007-07-05T13:27:00.000Z","author":"Johnbod","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Johnbod-2007-07-05T13:27:00.000Z-Sonjaaa-2007-07-05T12:07:00.000Z","replies":[]},{"timestamp":"2007-07-06T00:30:00.000Z","author":"Carlossuarez46","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Carlossuarez46-2007-07-06T00:30:00.000Z-Sonjaaa-2007-07-05T12:07:00.000Z","replies":[]},{"timestamp":"2007-07-07T23:28:00.000Z","author":"Andrew c","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Andrew_c-2007-07-07T23:28:00.000Z-Sonjaaa-2007-07-05T12:07:00.000Z","replies":[{"timestamp":"2007-07-08T01:10:00.000Z","author":"Johnbod","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Johnbod-2007-07-08T01:10:00.000Z-Andrew_c-2007-07-07T23:28:00.000Z","replies":[]}],"displayName":"Andrew c"},{"timestamp":"2007-07-08T06:59:00.000Z","author":"Dr. Submillimeter","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Dr._Submillimeter-2007-07-08T06:59:00.000Z-Sonjaaa-2007-07-05T12:07:00.000Z","replies":[{"timestamp":"2007-07-08T12:07:00.000Z","author":"Johnbod","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Johnbod-2007-07-08T12:07:00.000Z-Dr._Submillimeter-2007-07-08T06:59:00.000Z","replies":[]}]},{"timestamp":"2007-07-10T13:32:00.000Z","author":"Radiant!","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Radiant!-2007-07-10T13:32:00.000Z-Sonjaaa-2007-07-05T12:07:00.000Z","replies":[]}]}]},{"headingLevel":4,"name":"h-Dr._Submillimeter-2007-07-05T09:21:00.000Z","type":"heading","level":0,"id":"h-Category:Historical_upper_houses_of_the_United_Kingdom-July_5-2007-07-05T09:21:00.000Z","replies":[{"timestamp":"2007-07-10T13:32:00.000Z","author":"Radiant!","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Radiant!-2007-07-10T13:32:00.000Z-Category:Historical_upper_houses_of_the_United_Kingdom","replies":[]},{"timestamp":"2007-07-05T09:21:00.000Z","author":"Dr. Submillimeter","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Dr._Submillimeter-2007-07-05T09:21:00.000Z-Category:Historical_upper_houses_of_the_United_Kingdom","replies":[]},{"timestamp":"2007-07-05T13:29:00.000Z","author":"Johnbod","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Johnbod-2007-07-05T13:29:00.000Z-Category:Historical_upper_houses_of_the_United_Kingdom","replies":[]},{"timestamp":"2007-07-05T15:06:00.000Z","author":"Casperonline","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Casperonline-2007-07-05T15:06:00.000Z-Category:Historical_upper_houses_of_the_United_Kingdom","replies":[]}]},{"headingLevel":4,"name":"h-Dr._Submillimeter-2007-07-05T09:10:00.000Z","type":"heading","level":0,"id":"h-Category:Historical_upper_houses-July_5-2007-07-05T09:10:00.000Z","replies":[{"timestamp":"2007-07-10T13:32:00.000Z","author":"Radiant!","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Radiant!-2007-07-10T13:32:00.000Z-Category:Historical_upper_houses","replies":[]},{"timestamp":"2007-07-05T09:10:00.000Z","author":"Dr. Submillimeter","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Dr._Submillimeter-2007-07-05T09:10:00.000Z-Category:Historical_upper_houses","replies":[]},{"timestamp":"2007-07-05T13:30:00.000Z","author":"Johnbod","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Johnbod-2007-07-05T13:30:00.000Z-Category:Historical_upper_houses","replies":[]},{"timestamp":"2007-07-05T14:40:00.000Z","author":"Piccadilly","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Piccadilly-2007-07-05T14:40:00.000Z-Category:Historical_upper_houses","replies":[]},{"timestamp":"2007-07-05T14:50:00.000Z","author":"Dr. Submillimeter","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Dr._Submillimeter-2007-07-05T14:50:00.000Z-Category:Historical_upper_houses","replies":[]},{"timestamp":"2007-07-05T15:05:00.000Z","author":"Casperonline","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Casperonline-2007-07-05T15:05:00.000Z-Category:Historical_upper_houses","replies":[]},{"timestamp":"2007-07-05T17:50:00.000Z","author":"Otto4711","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Otto4711-2007-07-05T17:50:00.000Z-Category:Historical_upper_houses","replies":[]},{"timestamp":"2007-07-05T23:53:00.000Z","author":"Nathanian","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Nathanian-2007-07-05T23:53:00.000Z-Category:Historical_upper_houses","replies":[]}]},{"headingLevel":4,"name":"h-Dr._Submillimeter-2007-07-05T09:04:00.000Z","type":"heading","level":0,"id":"h-Category:Historical_railway_companies_of_Germany-July_5-2007-07-05T09:04:00.000Z","replies":[{"timestamp":"2007-07-10T13:32:00.000Z","author":"Radiant!","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Radiant!-2007-07-10T13:32:00.000Z-Category:Historical_railway_companies_of_Germany","replies":[]},{"timestamp":"2007-07-05T09:04:00.000Z","author":"Dr. Submillimeter","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Dr._Submillimeter-2007-07-05T09:04:00.000Z-Category:Historical_railway_companies_of_Germany","replies":[]},{"timestamp":"2007-07-05T23:54:00.000Z","author":"Nathanian","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Nathanian-2007-07-05T23:54:00.000Z-Category:Historical_railway_companies_of_Germany","replies":[]}]},{"headingLevel":4,"name":"h-Dr._Submillimeter-2007-07-05T09:01:00.000Z","type":"heading","level":0,"id":"h-Category:Historical_programming_languages-July_5-2007-07-05T09:01:00.000Z","replies":[{"timestamp":"2007-07-10T13:32:00.000Z","author":"Radiant!","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Radiant!-2007-07-10T13:32:00.000Z-Category:Historical_programming_languages","replies":[]},{"timestamp":"2007-07-05T09:01:00.000Z","author":"Dr. Submillimeter","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Dr._Submillimeter-2007-07-05T09:01:00.000Z-Category:Historical_programming_languages","replies":[]},{"timestamp":"2007-07-05T15:03:00.000Z","author":"Casperonline","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Casperonline-2007-07-05T15:03:00.000Z-Category:Historical_programming_languages","replies":[]},{"timestamp":"2007-07-05T23:55:00.000Z","author":"Nathanian","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Nathanian-2007-07-05T23:55:00.000Z-Category:Historical_programming_languages","replies":[]},{"timestamp":"2007-07-06T02:17:00.000Z","author":"Vegaswikian","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Vegaswikian-2007-07-06T02:17:00.000Z-Category:Historical_programming_languages","replies":[]},{"timestamp":"2007-07-06T15:44:00.000Z","author":"JoshuaZ","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-JoshuaZ-2007-07-06T15:44:00.000Z-Category:Historical_programming_languages","replies":[{"timestamp":"2007-07-06T19:24:00.000Z","author":"Dr. Submillimeter","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Dr._Submillimeter-2007-07-06T19:24:00.000Z-JoshuaZ-2007-07-06T15:44:00.000Z","replies":[]}]}]},{"headingLevel":4,"name":"h-Dr._Submillimeter-2007-07-05T08:55:00.000Z","type":"heading","level":0,"id":"h-Category:Historical_lower_houses-July_5-2007-07-05T08:55:00.000Z","replies":[{"timestamp":"2007-07-10T13:32:00.000Z","author":"Radiant!","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Radiant!-2007-07-10T13:32:00.000Z-Category:Historical_lower_houses","replies":[]},{"timestamp":"2007-07-05T08:55:00.000Z","author":"Dr. Submillimeter","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Dr._Submillimeter-2007-07-05T08:55:00.000Z-Category:Historical_lower_houses","replies":[]},{"timestamp":"2007-07-05T13:30:00.000Z","author":"Johnbod","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Johnbod-2007-07-05T13:30:00.000Z-Category:Historical_lower_houses","replies":[{"timestamp":"2007-07-05T14:50:00.000Z","author":"Dr. Submillimeter","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Dr._Submillimeter-2007-07-05T14:50:00.000Z-Johnbod-2007-07-05T13:30:00.000Z","replies":[]}]},{"timestamp":"2007-07-05T15:05:00.000Z","author":"Casperonline","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Casperonline-2007-07-05T15:05:00.000Z-Category:Historical_lower_houses","replies":[]},{"timestamp":"2007-07-05T17:50:00.000Z","author":"Otto4711","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Otto4711-2007-07-05T17:50:00.000Z-Category:Historical_lower_houses","replies":[{"timestamp":"2007-07-06T10:59:00.000Z","author":"Johnbod","type":"comment","level":5,"id":"c-Johnbod-2007-07-06T10:59:00.000Z-Otto4711-2007-07-05T17:50:00.000Z","replies":[{"timestamp":"2007-07-08T10:58:00.000Z","author":"Dr. Submillimeter","type":"comment","level":6,"id":"c-Dr._Submillimeter-2007-07-08T10:58:00.000Z-Johnbod-2007-07-06T10:59:00.000Z","replies":[{"timestamp":"2007-07-10T04:14:00.000Z","author":"Otto4711","type":"comment","level":7,"id":"c-Otto4711-2007-07-10T04:14:00.000Z-Dr._Submillimeter-2007-07-08T10:58:00.000Z","replies":[]}]}]}]}]},{"headingLevel":4,"name":"h-Æthelwold-2007-07-05T01:42:00.000Z","type":"heading","level":0,"id":"h-Category:Signatory_of_\"A_Scientific_Dissent_From_Darwinism\"-July_5-2007-07-05T01:42:00.000Z","replies":[{"timestamp":"2007-07-10T13:32:00.000Z","author":"Radiant!","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Radiant!-2007-07-10T13:32:00.000Z-Category:Signatory_of_\"A_Scientific_Dissent_From_Darwinism\"","replies":[]},{"timestamp":"2007-07-05T01:42:00.000Z","author":"Æthelwold","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Æthelwold-2007-07-05T01:42:00.000Z-Category:Signatory_of_\"A_Scientific_Dissent_From_Darwinism\"","replies":[]},{"timestamp":"2007-07-05T08:26:00.000Z","author":"Dr. Submillimeter","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Dr._Submillimeter-2007-07-05T08:26:00.000Z-Category:Signatory_of_\"A_Scientific_Dissent_From_Darwinism\"","replies":[{"timestamp":"2007-07-06T10:21:00.000Z","author":"Dr. Submillimeter","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Dr._Submillimeter-2007-07-06T10:21:00.000Z-Dr._Submillimeter-2007-07-05T08:26:00.000Z","replies":[{"timestamp":"2007-07-09T15:41:00.000Z","author":"Dr. Submillimeter","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Dr._Submillimeter-2007-07-09T15:41:00.000Z-Dr._Submillimeter-2007-07-06T10:21:00.000Z","replies":[{"timestamp":"2007-07-09T16:59:00.000Z","author":"Hrafn42","type":"comment","level":5,"id":"c-Hrafn42-2007-07-09T16:59:00.000Z-Dr._Submillimeter-2007-07-09T15:41:00.000Z","replies":[]}]}]}]},{"timestamp":"2007-07-05T11:44:00.000Z","author":"Northfox","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Northfox-2007-07-05T11:44:00.000Z-Category:Signatory_of_\"A_Scientific_Dissent_From_Darwinism\"","replies":[{"timestamp":"2007-07-05T11:54:00.000Z","author":"Dr. Submillimeter","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Dr._Submillimeter-2007-07-05T11:54:00.000Z-Northfox-2007-07-05T11:44:00.000Z","replies":[{"timestamp":"2007-07-06T04:59:00.000Z","author":"Hrafn42","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Hrafn42-2007-07-06T04:59:00.000Z-Dr._Submillimeter-2007-07-05T11:54:00.000Z","replies":[{"timestamp":"2007-07-06T07:57:00.000Z","author":"Dr. Submillimeter","type":"comment","level":5,"id":"c-Dr._Submillimeter-2007-07-06T07:57:00.000Z-Hrafn42-2007-07-06T04:59:00.000Z","replies":[{"timestamp":"2007-07-06T09:20:00.000Z","author":"Hrafn42","type":"comment","level":7,"id":"c-Hrafn42-2007-07-06T09:20:00.000Z-Dr._Submillimeter-2007-07-06T07:57:00.000Z","replies":[{"timestamp":"2007-07-06T10:21:00.000Z","author":"Dr. Submillimeter","type":"comment","level":8,"id":"c-Dr._Submillimeter-2007-07-06T10:21:00.000Z-Hrafn42-2007-07-06T09:20:00.000Z","replies":[{"timestamp":"2007-07-06T10:46:00.000Z","author":"Hrafn42","type":"comment","level":9,"id":"c-Hrafn42-2007-07-06T10:46:00.000Z-Dr._Submillimeter-2007-07-06T10:21:00.000Z","replies":[]},{"timestamp":"2007-07-08T16:38:00.000Z","author":"ConfuciusOrnis","type":"comment","level":9,"id":"c-ConfuciusOrnis-2007-07-08T16:38:00.000Z-Dr._Submillimeter-2007-07-06T10:21:00.000Z","replies":[],"displayName":"ornis"}]}]}]}]}]}]},{"timestamp":"2007-07-05T13:15:00.000Z","author":"AshbyJnr","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-AshbyJnr-2007-07-05T13:15:00.000Z-Category:Signatory_of_\"A_Scientific_Dissent_From_Darwinism\"","replies":[]},{"timestamp":"2007-07-05T17:01:00.000Z","author":"Andrew c","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Andrew_c-2007-07-05T17:01:00.000Z-Category:Signatory_of_\"A_Scientific_Dissent_From_Darwinism\"","replies":[],"displayName":"Andrew c"},{"timestamp":"2007-07-06T00:32:00.000Z","author":"Carlossuarez46","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Carlossuarez46-2007-07-06T00:32:00.000Z-Category:Signatory_of_\"A_Scientific_Dissent_From_Darwinism\"","replies":[]},{"timestamp":"2007-07-06T00:43:00.000Z","author":"ConfuciusOrnis","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-ConfuciusOrnis-2007-07-06T00:43:00.000Z-Category:Signatory_of_\"A_Scientific_Dissent_From_Darwinism\"","replies":[],"displayName":"ornis"},{"timestamp":"2007-07-06T00:47:00.000Z","author":"Filll","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Filll-2007-07-06T00:47:00.000Z-Category:Signatory_of_\"A_Scientific_Dissent_From_Darwinism\"","replies":[{"timestamp":"2007-07-06T05:27:00.000Z","author":"Northfox","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Northfox-2007-07-06T05:27:00.000Z-Filll-2007-07-06T00:47:00.000Z","replies":[{"timestamp":"2007-07-06T14:10:00.000Z","author":"Filll","type":"comment","level":5,"id":"c-Filll-2007-07-06T14:10:00.000Z-Northfox-2007-07-06T05:27:00.000Z","replies":[]},{"timestamp":"2007-07-06T05:39:00.000Z","author":"Hrafn42","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Hrafn42-2007-07-06T05:39:00.000Z-Northfox-2007-07-06T05:27:00.000Z","replies":[]}]}]},{"timestamp":"2007-07-06T02:30:00.000Z","author":"Hrafn42","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Hrafn42-2007-07-06T02:30:00.000Z-Category:Signatory_of_\"A_Scientific_Dissent_From_Darwinism\"","replies":[{"timestamp":"2007-07-06T03:04:00.000Z","author":"Hrafn42","type":"comment","level":5,"id":"c-Hrafn42-2007-07-06T03:04:00.000Z-Hrafn42-2007-07-06T02:30:00.000Z","replies":[]},{"timestamp":"2007-07-07T04:14:00.000Z","author":"Hrafn42","type":"comment","level":5,"id":"c-Hrafn42-2007-07-07T04:14:00.000Z-Hrafn42-2007-07-06T02:30:00.000Z","replies":[]}]},{"timestamp":"2007-07-06T03:28:00.000Z","author":"Guettarda","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Guettarda-2007-07-06T03:28:00.000Z-Category:Signatory_of_\"A_Scientific_Dissent_From_Darwinism\"","replies":[]},{"timestamp":"2007-07-06T03:33:00.000Z","author":"DGG","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-DGG-2007-07-06T03:33:00.000Z-Category:Signatory_of_\"A_Scientific_Dissent_From_Darwinism\"","replies":[{"timestamp":"2007-07-06T08:56:00.000Z","author":"Hrafn42","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Hrafn42-2007-07-06T08:56:00.000Z-DGG-2007-07-06T03:33:00.000Z","replies":[]}]},{"timestamp":"2007-07-06T03:38:00.000Z","author":"Orangemarlin","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Orangemarlin-2007-07-06T03:38:00.000Z-Category:Signatory_of_\"A_Scientific_Dissent_From_Darwinism\"","replies":[]},{"timestamp":"2007-07-06T04:52:00.000Z","author":"Hrafn42","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Hrafn42-2007-07-06T04:52:00.000Z-Category:Signatory_of_\"A_Scientific_Dissent_From_Darwinism\"","replies":[{"timestamp":"2007-07-06T07:48:00.000Z","author":"Dr. Submillimeter","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Dr._Submillimeter-2007-07-06T07:48:00.000Z-Hrafn42-2007-07-06T04:52:00.000Z","replies":[{"timestamp":"2007-07-06T08:37:00.000Z","author":"Hrafn42","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Hrafn42-2007-07-06T08:37:00.000Z-Dr._Submillimeter-2007-07-06T07:48:00.000Z","replies":[{"timestamp":"2007-07-06T10:21:00.000Z","author":"Dr. Submillimeter","type":"comment","level":5,"id":"c-Dr._Submillimeter-2007-07-06T10:21:00.000Z-Hrafn42-2007-07-06T08:37:00.000Z","replies":[{"timestamp":"2007-07-08T06:23:00.000Z","author":"Hrafn42","type":"comment","level":6,"id":"c-Hrafn42-2007-07-08T06:23:00.000Z-Dr._Submillimeter-2007-07-06T10:21:00.000Z","replies":[]}]}]}]}]},{"timestamp":"2007-07-06T05:25:00.000Z","author":"FeloniousMonk","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-FeloniousMonk-2007-07-06T05:25:00.000Z-Category:Signatory_of_\"A_Scientific_Dissent_From_Darwinism\"","replies":[]},{"timestamp":"2007-07-06T10:51:00.000Z","author":"Johnbod","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Johnbod-2007-07-06T10:51:00.000Z-Category:Signatory_of_\"A_Scientific_Dissent_From_Darwinism\"","replies":[]},{"timestamp":"2007-07-06T13:26:00.000Z","author":"JoshuaZ","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-JoshuaZ-2007-07-06T13:26:00.000Z-Category:Signatory_of_\"A_Scientific_Dissent_From_Darwinism\"","replies":[]},{"timestamp":"2007-07-06T15:04:00.000Z","author":"Dugwiki","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Dugwiki-2007-07-06T15:04:00.000Z-Category:Signatory_of_\"A_Scientific_Dissent_From_Darwinism\"","replies":[{"timestamp":"2007-07-07T04:37:00.000Z","author":"Hrafn42","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Hrafn42-2007-07-07T04:37:00.000Z-Dugwiki-2007-07-06T15:04:00.000Z","replies":[{"timestamp":"2007-07-08T03:52:00.000Z","author":"FeloniousMonk","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-FeloniousMonk-2007-07-08T03:52:00.000Z-Hrafn42-2007-07-07T04:37:00.000Z","replies":[{"timestamp":"2007-07-08T07:03:00.000Z","author":"Dr. Submillimeter","type":"comment","level":5,"id":"c-Dr._Submillimeter-2007-07-08T07:03:00.000Z-FeloniousMonk-2007-07-08T03:52:00.000Z","replies":[{"timestamp":"2007-07-08T07:40:00.000Z","author":"Hrafn42","type":"comment","level":6,"id":"c-Hrafn42-2007-07-08T07:40:00.000Z-Dr._Submillimeter-2007-07-08T07:03:00.000Z","replies":[{"timestamp":"2007-07-08T11:06:00.000Z","author":"Dr. Submillimeter","type":"comment","level":7,"id":"c-Dr._Submillimeter-2007-07-08T11:06:00.000Z-Hrafn42-2007-07-08T07:40:00.000Z","replies":[{"timestamp":"2007-07-08T13:49:00.000Z","author":"Hrafn42","type":"comment","level":8,"id":"c-Hrafn42-2007-07-08T13:49:00.000Z-Dr._Submillimeter-2007-07-08T11:06:00.000Z","replies":[]}]}]}]}]}]}]},{"timestamp":"2007-07-06T21:12:00.000Z","author":"Odd nature","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Odd_nature-2007-07-06T21:12:00.000Z-Category:Signatory_of_\"A_Scientific_Dissent_From_Darwinism\"","replies":[]},{"timestamp":"2007-07-09T01:50:00.000Z","author":"Gtrmp","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Gtrmp-2007-07-09T01:50:00.000Z-Category:Signatory_of_\"A_Scientific_Dissent_From_Darwinism\"","replies":[],"displayName":"Sean Curtin"},{"timestamp":"2007-07-09T05:44:00.000Z","author":"Steve Dufour","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Steve_Dufour-2007-07-09T05:44:00.000Z-Category:Signatory_of_\"A_Scientific_Dissent_From_Darwinism\"","replies":[]}]},{"headingLevel":4,"name":"h-Szyslak-2007-07-05T00:14:00.000Z","type":"heading","level":0,"id":"h-Category:Pages_Needing_to_be_Archived-July_5-2007-07-05T00:14:00.000Z","replies":[{"timestamp":"2007-07-10T13:32:00.000Z","author":"Radiant!","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Radiant!-2007-07-10T13:32:00.000Z-Category:Pages_Needing_to_be_Archived","replies":[]},{"timestamp":"2007-07-05T00:14:00.000Z","author":"Szyslak","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Szyslak-2007-07-05T00:14:00.000Z-Category:Pages_Needing_to_be_Archived","replies":[]},{"timestamp":"2007-07-05T14:41:00.000Z","author":"Piccadilly","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Piccadilly-2007-07-05T14:41:00.000Z-Category:Pages_Needing_to_be_Archived","replies":[]},{"timestamp":"2007-07-05T18:32:00.000Z","author":"Otto4711","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Otto4711-2007-07-05T18:32:00.000Z-Category:Pages_Needing_to_be_Archived","replies":[{"timestamp":"2007-07-05T19:18:00.000Z","author":"Otto4711","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Otto4711-2007-07-05T19:18:00.000Z-Otto4711-2007-07-05T18:32:00.000Z","replies":[]}]}]}]}],"wgPageParseReport":{"discussiontools":{"limitreport-timeusage":"0.107"},"limitreport":{"cputime":"0.279","walltime":"0.330","ppvisitednodes":{"value":2625,"limit":1000000},"postexpandincludesize":{"value":68719,"limit":2097152},"templateargumentsize":{"value":7134,"limit":2097152},"expansiondepth":{"value":7,"limit":100},"expensivefunctioncount":{"value":0,"limit":500},"unstrip-depth":{"value":0,"limit":20},"unstrip-size":{"value":0,"limit":5000000},"entityaccesscount":{"value":0,"limit":400},"timingprofile":["100.00% 30.017 1 -total"," 92.52% 27.771 30 Template:Lc"," 73.25% 21.988 30 Template:Lx"]},"cachereport":{"origin":"mw-api-int.codfw.main-cff54ddb8-rgs4z","timestamp":"20241107032733","ttl":2592000,"transientcontent":false}}});});</script> </body> </html>