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style="display:inline-block;height:100%;width:100%;overflow:hidden;border-radius:4px;background-color:#A9B8AD" class="coverImgContainer"><img style="display:inline-block;opacity:1;width:100%;height:100%" src="https://static.libsyn.com/p/assets/4/9/e/b/49eb67ffbcb18a0a27a2322813b393ee/GeriPal_EP328_forLibsyn.jpg" class="cover" alt="Images of the Dying: A Podcast with Wendy MacNaughton, Lingsheng Li, and Frank Ostaseski" title="Images of the Dying: A Podcast with Wendy MacNaughton, Lingsheng Li, and Frank Ostaseski"/></div></div><div class="trackinfo-titleBox"><h1 title="Images of the Dying: A Podcast with Wendy MacNaughton, Lingsheng Li, and Frank Ostaseski" class="trackinfo-title"><div id="box-pro-ellipsis-173979577318865" class="box-ellipsis box-ellipsis-lineClamp"><style>#box-pro-ellipsis-173979577318865{-webkit-line-clamp:2;}</style><span>Images of the Dying: A Podcast with Wendy MacNaughton, Lingsheng Li, and Frank Ostaseski</span></div></h1><div class="trackinfo-con-des"><span class="item">Update: 2024-10-03</span><span class="item"></span></div><div class="trackinfo-ctrls"><div class="player_play_btn pause loading " style="display:inline-block;cursor:pointer;margin-right:20px"></div><span><div class="sharePageBtn">Share</div></span></div></div><div class="trackinfo-des-title-wrapper"><p class="trackinfo-des-title ">Description</p></div><div class="trackinfo-des"><span class="box-ellipsis"><div><p>Can death be portrayed as beautiful?</p> <p>In this episode, we share the joy of talking with <a rel="nofollow"href="https://www.wendymacnaughton.com/about">Wendy MacNaughton</a> (artist, author, graphic journalist) and <a rel="nofollow"href="https://frankostaseski.com/">Frank Ostaseski</a> (Buddhist teacher, author, founder of the <a rel="nofollow"href="https://www.mettainstitute.org/">Metta Institute</a> and Zen Hospice Project) about using drawings and images as tools for creating human connections and processing death and dying.</p> <p>You may know Wendy as the talented artist behind <a rel="nofollow"href="https://www.chroniclebooks.com/products/meanwhile-in-san-francisco?srsltid=AfmBOoqppXSgr7fwIyrHFdO1T_a96xeaQt1GgbCTjEb9OpzLH918miuK"> Meanwhile in San Francisco</a> or <a rel="nofollow"href="https://www.saltfatacidheat.com/">Salt Fat Acid Heat</a>. Our focus today, however, was on her most recently published book titled <a rel="nofollow"href="https://bookshop.org/p/books/how-to-say-goodbye-wendy-macnaughton/18777984?ean=9781639730858"> How to Say Goodbye</a>. This beautiful book began as a very personal project for Wendy while she was the artist-in-residence at Zen Hospice. As BJ MIller writes in the foreword, “May this book be a portal -- a way for us to move beyond the unwise territory of trying to ‘do it right’ and into the transcendent terrain of noticing what we can notice, loving who we love, and letting death -- like life --surprise us with its ineffable beauty.”</p> <p><strong>Some highlights from our conversation: </strong></p> <ul> <li> <p>The role of art in humanizing the dying process. </p> </li> </ul> <ul> <li> <p>How the act of drawing can help us sloooow down, pay attention to the people and world around us, and ultimately let go… </p> </li> <li> <p>The possibility of incorporating drawings in research and even clinical care. </p> </li> <li> <p>The wisdom and experiences of hospice caregivers (who are often underpaid and undervalued).</p> </li> <li> <p>How to use the “Five Things” as a framework for a “conversation of love, respect, and closure” with someone who is dying.</p> </li> </ul> <p>And finally, Wendy offers a drawing lesson and ONE-MINUTE drawing assignment to help us (and our listeners) be more present and connect with one another. You can read more about this blind contour exercise from Wendy’s <a rel="nofollow"href="https://www.wendymacnaughton.com/drawtogether-strangers">DrawTogether Strangers project</a>. The rules are really quite simple: </p> <ul> <li> <p>Find another person.</p> </li> <li> <p>Sit down and draw each other for only one minute.</p> </li> <ul> <li> <p>NEVER lift up your pen/pencil (draw with a continuous line) </p> </li> <li> <p>NEVER look down at your paper</p> </li> </ul> </ul> <p>That’s it! While the creative process is what truly matters, we think that the outcome is guaranteed to be awesome and definitely worth sharing. We invite you to post your drawings on twitter and tag us @GeriPalBlog!</p> <p>Happy listening and drawing,</p> <p>Lingsheng <a rel="nofollow"href="https://x.com/lingshengli">@lingshengli </a></p> <p><br /> <strong>Additional info: </strong></p> <ul> <li> <p>For weekly lessons on drawing and the art of paying attention from Wendy, you can subscribe to her Substack <a rel="nofollow"href="https://club.drawtogether.studio/">DrawTogether with WendyMac</a> and join the <a rel="nofollow"href="https://club.drawtogether.studio/s/dt-grown-ups-table">Grown-Ups Table (GUT)</a>! </p> </li> <li> <p>To learn more about Frank’s teaching and philosophy on end-of-life care, read his book <a rel="nofollow"href="https://fiveinvitations.com/the-book/">The Five Invitations </a></p> </li> </ul> <p> </p> <p><strong><img style="max-width:60%;max-height:60%;margin:0"src="https://geripal.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/11/LOGO_for_Palliative_Medicine.jpg" alt width="300" height="56" /></strong></p> <p><strong>This episode of the GeriPal Podcast is sponsored by</strong> <a rel="nofollow"title="https://palliativemedicine.ucsf.edu/" href="https://palliativemedicine.ucsf.edu/" target="_blank">UCSF’s Division of Palliative Medicine</a>, an amazing group doing world-class palliative care. They are looking to build on both their research and clinical programs and are interviewing candidates for the <a rel="nofollow"title="https://aprecruit.ucsf.edu/JPF05240" href="https://aprecruit.ucsf.edu/JPF05240" target="_blank">Associate Chief of Research</a> and for<a rel="nofollow"title="https://aprecruit.ucsf.edu/JPF05235" href="https://aprecruit.ucsf.edu/JPF05235" target="_blank"> full-time physician faculty to join them in the inpatient and outpatient setting</a>. To learn more about job opportunities, please click here: <a rel="nofollow"title="https://palliativemedicine.ucsf.edu/job-openings" href="https://palliativemedicine.ucsf.edu/job-openings" target="_blank">https://<wbr />palliativemedicine.ucsf.edu/<wbr />job-openings</a></p> <p> </p> <p>** This podcast is not CME eligible. To learn more about CME for other GeriPal episodes, <a rel="nofollow"href="https://geripal.org/cme/">click here</a>.</p></div></span></div><div class="seeMorebtn seeMorebtn_up"><img class="img" src="data:image/png;base64,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"/></div></div><div class="trackPlay-comment"><div id="comments" 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Alex Smith and Eric Widera</h1></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><div class="Toastify"></div></div></div> <script> window.__INITIAL_STATE__ = 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