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margin: 0 0 0.5em 0.5em; text-align:left; border: 1px solid #47374a; width:175px;"> <tbody><tr> <td style="font-size: 95%; text-align:center; color:White; background-color:#47374a"><b>Thinking hardly<br />or hardly thinking?</b><br /><a href="/wiki/Philosophy" title="Philosophy"><font size="4" color="White"><b>Philosophy</b></font></a> </td></tr> <tr> <td style="background-color:#f8feff;" align="center"><a href="/wiki/Category:Philosophers" title="Category:Philosophers"><img alt="Icon philosophy.svg" src="/w/images/thumb/d/d0/Icon_philosophy.svg/100px-Icon_philosophy.svg.png" decoding="async" width="100" height="100" srcset="/w/images/thumb/d/d0/Icon_philosophy.svg/150px-Icon_philosophy.svg.png 1.5x, /w/images/thumb/d/d0/Icon_philosophy.svg/200px-Icon_philosophy.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="200" data-file-height="200" /></a> </td></tr> <tr> <td style="font-size: 95%; color:White; background-color:#47374a; text-align:center;"><b>Major trains of thought</b> </td></tr> <tr> <td style="font-size: 95%; background-color:#f8feff;"> <ul><li><a href="/wiki/Logic" title="Logic">Logic</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Morality" title="Morality">Morality</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Reality" title="Reality">Reality</a></li></ul> </td></tr> <tr> <td style="font-size: 95%; color:White; background-color:#47374a; text-align:center;"><b>The good, the bad,<br />and the brain fart</b> </td></tr> <tr> <td style="font-size: 95%; background-color:#f8feff;"> <ul><li><a href="/wiki/Empiricism" title="Empiricism">Empiricism</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Prioritarianism" title="Prioritarianism">Prioritarianism</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Antihumanism" title="Antihumanism">Antihumanism</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Providence_Lost:_A_Critique_of_Darwinism" title="Providence Lost: A Critique of Darwinism">Providence Lost: A Critique of Darwinism</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Tabula_rasa" title="Tabula rasa">Tabula rasa</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Alan_Watts" title="Alan Watts">Alan Watts</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Al-F%C4%81r%C4%81b%C4%AB" title="Al-Fārābī">Al-Fārābī</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Giovanni_Gentile" title="Giovanni Gentile">Giovanni Gentile</a></li></ul> </td></tr> <tr> <td style="font-size: 95%; color:White; background-color:#47374a; text-align:center;"><b>Come to think of it</b> </td></tr> <tr> <td style="font-size: 95%; background-color:#f8feff;"> <ul><li><a href="/wiki/Religion" title="Religion">Religion</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Science" title="Science">Science</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Philosophy_of_science" title="Philosophy of science">Philosophy of science</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Ethics" class="mw-redirect" title="Ethics">Ethics</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Psychology" title="Psychology">Psychology</a></li></ul> <div class="vte plainlinks" style="font-size:smaller; text-align:center;"><a href="/wiki/Template:Philosophy" title="Template:Philosophy">v</a> - <a href="/wiki/Template_talk:Philosophy" title="Template talk:Philosophy">t</a> - <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://rationalwiki.org/w/index.php?title=Template:Philosophy&action=edit">e</a></div> </td></tr></tbody></table> <p><b>Titus Lucretius Carus</b> (circa 99 BCE–circa 55 BCE), often shortened to <b>Lucretius</b> in an attempt to sound casual, was a <a href="/wiki/Roman_Empire" title="Roman Empire">Roman</a> <a href="/wiki/Philosophy" title="Philosophy">philosopher</a> who spent his life trying to popularize the ideas of <a href="/wiki/Epicurus" title="Epicurus">Epicurus</a> in the Roman world. His one surviving work, <i>De Rerum Natura</i> (<i>On The Nature of Things</i>), besides being very good bedtime reading, represents an early attempt to work out the structure of the universe using reason. </p> <div id="toc" class="toc" role="navigation" aria-labelledby="mw-toc-heading"><input type="checkbox" role="button" id="toctogglecheckbox" class="toctogglecheckbox" style="display:none" /><div class="toctitle" lang="en" dir="ltr"><h2 id="mw-toc-heading">Contents</h2><span class="toctogglespan"><label class="toctogglelabel" for="toctogglecheckbox"></label></span></div> <ul> <li class="toclevel-1 tocsection-1"><a href="#Views_on_death"><span class="tocnumber">1</span> <span class="toctext">Views on death</span></a></li> <li class="toclevel-1 tocsection-2"><a href="#Where_he_was_wrong"><span class="tocnumber">2</span> <span class="toctext">Where he was wrong</span></a></li> <li class="toclevel-1 tocsection-3"><a href="#Where_he_was_right"><span class="tocnumber">3</span> <span class="toctext">Where he was right</span></a></li> <li class="toclevel-1 tocsection-4"><a href="#External_links"><span class="tocnumber">4</span> <span class="toctext">External links</span></a></li> <li class="toclevel-1 tocsection-5"><a href="#References"><span class="tocnumber">5</span> <span class="toctext">References</span></a></li> </ul> </div> <h2><span class="mw-headline" id="Views_on_death">Views on death</span><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Lucretius&action=edit&section=1" title="Edit section: Views on death">edit</a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span></h2> <p>In his massive poem <i>De Rerum Natura</i> Lucretius wrote lots of fancy words in order to draw Romans to Epicureanism since Epicurus was only really famous in Greece at the time. In the poem/book, Lucretius takes on the task of persuading people that they should not fear <a href="/wiki/Death" title="Death">death</a>. Death is somewhat worrying for most people, but an attempt to tackle fear of it philosophically is rare. </p><p>Lucretius' philosophy of death is often called the Symmetry Argument and goes as follows: </p> <ul><li>In the time before your birth, you did not exist</li> <li>In the time after your death, you will not exist</li> <li>The existence in both cases is the same</li> <li>Because you don't suffer in the time before you're born, you will not suffer in the time after your death</li> <li>So it doesn't make sense to fear your death</li></ul> <p>He expresses the idea a little more poetically as follows: </p> <table style="margin: auto; border-collapse:collapse; border-style:none; background-color:transparent;" class="cquote"> <tbody><tr> <td><div style="padding:4px 50px;position:relative;"><span style="position:absolute;left:10px;top:-6px;z-index:1;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif;font-weight:bold;color:#B2B7F2;font-size:36px">“</span><span style="position:absolute;right:10px;bottom:-20px;z-index:1;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif;font-weight:bold;color:#B2B7F2;font-size:36px">”</span>Look back now and consider how the bygone ages of eternity that elapsed before our birth were nothing to us. Here, then, is a mirror in which nature shows us the time to come after our death. Do you see anything fearful in it? Do you perceive anything grim? Does it not appear more peaceful than the deepest sleep?<sup id="cite_ref-1" class="reference"><a href="#cite_note-1">[1]</a></sup></div> </td></tr> </tbody></table> <h2><span class="mw-headline" id="Where_he_was_wrong">Where he was wrong</span><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Lucretius&action=edit&section=2" title="Edit section: Where he was wrong">edit</a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span></h2> <p>Almost everything. This is understandable since he (and his society) had the scientific knowledge of a dead whelk. However, even the ideas which were utterly wrong are often amusing and represent a heartening attempt at a rational view of nature in an age that Lucretius saw as one of superstition. For instance, he believed that thunder was caused by clouds being spun into balloons by the wind and then popping, that fire exists in particulate form inside all things and can sometimes be knocked out to create sparks, and that there could be no fundamental force of gravity because then trees would not be able to get water up off the ground without lifting it (you can't really blame him for not knowing about transpiration and capillary action). Sadly, one area where he and other Epicureans promulgated the wrong opinion other intellectuals of the day actually got right is believing <a href="/wiki/Flat_Earth" title="Flat Earth">the earth was flat</a>, plus that the sun is much smaller than its true size.<sup id="cite_ref-2" class="reference"><a href="#cite_note-2">[2]</a></sup> </p> <h2><span class="mw-headline" id="Where_he_was_right">Where he was right</span><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Lucretius&action=edit&section=3" title="Edit section: Where he was right">edit</a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span></h2> <p>He came up with something uncannily similar to the theory of evolution by natural selection a couple of thousand years ahead of time. Mention of this is often neglected, and it remains unclear how much (if any) impact it had on later science. He also is the first person to describe Brownian motion (in the example of dust particles) and used it as proof that atoms existed. Of course, the existence of atoms is itself something he got right (though things are far more complicated in modern physics), but this predates him by centuries. </p><p>He also believed the universe was infinite and provided a logical proof in <i>De Rerum Natura</i>: Stand at the edge of the universe and shoot an arrow. The arrow either goes on forever, or it hits a wall - so stand on that wall and shoot again. You can keep doing that infinitely. There are only the same two possible outcomes. Therefore, the universe is infinite. It wouldn't be considered scientific these days, but it was good enough back then, and it proved a big inspiration to Giordano Bruno, who got burned at the stake in 1600 for believing such un-Catholic things. Bruno's story, including a delightful animated version of Lucretius' thought experiment, is told in Neil DeGrasse Tyson's <i>Cosmos</i> reboot. </p><p><a href="/wiki/Richard_Carrier" title="Richard Carrier">Richard Carrier</a> has pointed out that if Lucretius' poem were interpreted like religious apologists do with respect to their sacred books on supposed prophetic predictions of scientific facts (see <a href="/wiki/Biblical_scientific_errors" title="Biblical scientific errors">Biblical scientific errors</a> and <a href="/wiki/Qur%27anic_scientific_foreknowledge" title="Qur'anic scientific foreknowledge">Qur'anic scientific foreknowledge</a>), Lucretius predicts a larger number of them (and more rationaly justifed), such as: the existence of the atom (I.265-328) , the law of inertia (II.62-166, II.184-332), photons (II.144-156), the theory of <a href="/wiki/Evolution" title="Evolution">evolution</a> (II.1150-1156, V.790-836), the theory of <a href="/wiki/Relativity" title="Relativity">relativity</a> (I.459-463, II.308-332), quantum indeterminism (II.216-293) and Brownian motion (II.112-141).<sup id="cite_ref-3" class="reference"><a href="#cite_note-3">[3]</a></sup> </p> <h2><span class="mw-headline" id="External_links">External links</span><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Lucretius&action=edit&section=4" title="Edit section: External links">edit</a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span></h2> <ul><li>Works of Lucretius in <a href="https://wikisource.org/wiki/la:Scriptor:Titus_Lucretius_Carus" class="extiw" title="wikisource:la:Scriptor:Titus Lucretius Carus" rel="nofollow">Latin</a> and <a href="https://wikisource.org/wiki/en:Author:Titus_Lucretius_Carus" class="extiw" title="wikisource:en:Author:Titus Lucretius Carus" rel="nofollow">English</a> on Wikisource</li></ul> <h2><span class="mw-headline" id="References">References</span><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Lucretius&action=edit&section=5" title="Edit section: References">edit</a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span></h2> <div class="references-small" style="font-size:90%;"> <div class="mw-references-wrap"><ol class="references"> <li id="cite_note-1"><span class="mw-cite-backlink"><a href="#cite_ref-1">↑</a></span> <span class="reference-text">Lucretius, <i>On The Nature of Things</i>, section 970</span> </li> <li id="cite_note-2"><span class="mw-cite-backlink"><a href="#cite_ref-2">↑</a></span> <span class="reference-text"><style data-mw-deduplicate="TemplateStyles:r2708880">/* Errors processing stylesheet [[:Module:Citation/CS1/styles.css]] (rev 2708880): • Invalid or unsupported value for property ⧼code⧽background⧼/code⧽ at line 44 character 14. • Invalid or unsupported value for property ⧼code⧽background⧼/code⧽ at line 50 character 14. • Invalid or unsupported value for property ⧼code⧽background⧼/code⧽ at line 55 character 14. • Invalid or unsupported value for property ⧼code⧽background⧼/code⧽ at line 64 character 14. • Invalid or unsupported value for property ⧼code⧽color⧼/code⧽ at line 96 character 9. • Invalid or unsupported value for property ⧼code⧽color⧼/code⧽ at line 100 character 9. • Invalid media query at line 138 character 8. */ .mw-parser-output cite.citation{font-style:inherit;word-wrap:break-word}.mw-parser-output .citation q{quotes:"\"""\"""'""'"}.mw-parser-output .citation:target{background-color:rgba(0,127,255,0.133)}.mw-parser-output .id-lock-free.id-lock-free a{}.mw-parser-output .id-lock-limited.id-lock-limited a,.mw-parser-output .id-lock-registration.id-lock-registration a{}.mw-parser-output .id-lock-subscription.id-lock-subscription a{}.mw-parser-output .cs1-ws-icon a{}body:not(.skin-timeless):not(.skin-minerva) .mw-parser-output .id-lock-free a,body:not(.skin-timeless):not(.skin-minerva) .mw-parser-output .id-lock-limited a,body:not(.skin-timeless):not(.skin-minerva) .mw-parser-output .id-lock-registration a,body:not(.skin-timeless):not(.skin-minerva) .mw-parser-output .id-lock-subscription a,body:not(.skin-timeless):not(.skin-minerva) .mw-parser-output .cs1-ws-icon a{background-size:contain;padding:0 1em 0 0}.mw-parser-output .cs1-code{color:inherit;background:inherit;border:none;padding:inherit}.mw-parser-output .cs1-hidden-error{display:none}.mw-parser-output .cs1-visible-error{}.mw-parser-output .cs1-maint{display:none;color:#085;margin-left:0.3em}.mw-parser-output .cs1-kern-left{padding-left:0.2em}.mw-parser-output .cs1-kern-right{padding-right:0.2em}.mw-parser-output .citation .mw-selflink{font-weight:inherit}@media screen{.mw-parser-output .cs1-format{font-size:95%}html.skin-theme-clientpref-night .mw-parser-output .cs1-maint{color:#18911f}}</style><cite class="citation web cs1"><a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus:text:1999.02.0131:book=1:card=1052">"Lucretius, De Rerum Natura, BOOK I, line 1052"</a>.</cite><span title="ctx_ver=Z39.88-2004&rft_val_fmt=info%3Aofi%2Ffmt%3Akev%3Amtx%3Abook&rft.genre=unknown&rft.btitle=Lucretius%2C+De+Rerum+Natura%2C+BOOK+I%2C+line+1052&rft_id=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.perseus.tufts.edu%2Fhopper%2Ftext%3Fdoc%3DPerseus%3Atext%3A1999.02.0131%3Abook%3D1%3Acard%3D1052&rfr_id=info%3Asid%2Frationalwiki.org%3ALucretius" class="Z3988"></span></span> </li> <li id="cite_note-3"><span class="mw-cite-backlink"><a href="#cite_ref-3">↑</a></span> <span class="reference-text"><link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r2708880"/><cite id="CITEREFCarrier2004" class="citation web cs1">Carrier, Richard (2004). <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://infidels.org/kiosk/article/predicting-modern-science-epicurus-vs-mohammed/">"Predicting Modern Science: Epicurus vs. Mohammed » Internet Infidels"</a>. <i>Internet Infidels</i>.</cite><span title="ctx_ver=Z39.88-2004&rft_val_fmt=info%3Aofi%2Ffmt%3Akev%3Amtx%3Ajournal&rft.genre=unknown&rft.jtitle=Internet+Infidels&rft.atitle=Predicting+Modern+Science%3A+Epicurus+vs.+Mohammed+%C2%BB+Internet+Infidels&rft.date=2004&rft.aulast=Carrier&rft.aufirst=Richard&rft_id=https%3A%2F%2Finfidels.org%2Fkiosk%2Farticle%2Fpredicting-modern-science-epicurus-vs-mohammed%2F&rfr_id=info%3Asid%2Frationalwiki.org%3ALucretius" class="Z3988"></span></span> </li> </ol></div></div>    </div></div><div class="printfooter">Retrieved from "<a dir="ltr" href="https://rationalwiki.org/w/index.php?title=Lucretius&oldid=2530671">https://rationalwiki.org/w/index.php?title=Lucretius&oldid=2530671</a>"</div> <div id="catlinks" class="catlinks" data-mw="interface"><div id="mw-normal-catlinks" class="mw-normal-catlinks"><a href="/wiki/Special:Categories" title="Special:Categories">Categories</a>: <ul><li><a href="/wiki/Category:Philosophers" 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