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Daily chart: How America really chooses its president | The Economist
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Please stay on topic and be respectful of other readers. <a href="/web/20120516042436/http://www.economist.com/legal/terms-of-use#usercontent">Review our comments policy</a>.</p> <div class="box"> <div class="content"><form action="/web/20120516042436/http://www.economist.com/blogs/graphicdetail/2012/05/daily-chart-5#comment-form" accept-charset="UTF-8" method="post" id="comment-form" class="ajax-form comment-forms"> <div><a name="commentForm"></a> <div class="form-item clearfix" id="edit-comment-wrapper"> <label for="edit-comment"><span class="form-required" title="This field is required.">*</span> Add a comment (up to 5,000 characters):</label> <textarea cols="60" rows="8" name="comment" id="edit-comment" class="form-textarea resizable required"></textarea> </div> <input type="hidden" name="form_build_id" id="form-592547d3a01fc336f66867e09d5156f4" value="form-592547d3a01fc336f66867e09d5156f4"/> <input type="hidden" name="form_id" id="edit-comment-form" value="comment_form"/> <input type="hidden" name="mollom[session_id]" id="edit-mollom-session-id" value="" class="mollom-session-id"/> <div style="display: none;"><div class="form-item clearfix" id="edit-mollom-homepage-wrapper"> <input type="text" maxlength="128" name="mollom[homepage]" id="edit-mollom-homepage" size="60" value="" title="Homepage" autocomplete="off" class="form-text"/> </div> </div><input type="submit" name="op" id="edit-submit" value="Post" class="form-submit ajax-trigger"/> </div></form> </div> </div> </div> <div class="sort"><p>Sort:</p><ul class="clearfix" id="sort-comments"><li class="first">Newest first</li> <li class="even"><a href="/web/20120516042436/http://www.economist.com/blogs/graphicdetail/2012/05/daily-chart-5?sort=2#sort-comments" rel="nofollow" class="active">Oldest first</a></li> <li class="last"><a href="/web/20120516042436/http://www.economist.com/blogs/graphicdetail/2012/05/daily-chart-5?sort=3#sort-comments" rel="nofollow" class="active">Readers' most recommended</a></li> </ul></div><div class="pager clearfix"><div class="item-list"><ul class="pager"><li class="pager-current first">1</li> <li class="pager-item even"><a href="/web/20120516042436/http://www.economist.com/blogs/graphicdetail/2012/05/daily-chart-5?page=1#sort-comments" title="Go to page 2" class="active">2</a></li> <li class="pager-item"><a href="/web/20120516042436/http://www.economist.com/blogs/graphicdetail/2012/05/daily-chart-5?page=2#sort-comments" title="Go to page 3" class="active">3</a></li> <li class="pager-next even"><a href="/web/20120516042436/http://www.economist.com/blogs/graphicdetail/2012/05/daily-chart-5?page=1#sort-comments" title="Go to next page" class="active">next ›</a></li> <li class="pager-last last"><a href="/web/20120516042436/http://www.economist.com/blogs/graphicdetail/2012/05/daily-chart-5?page=2#sort-comments" title="Go to last page" class="active">last »</a></li> </ul></div></div><a name="comments"></a> <article id="comment-1417180" class="single-comment"> <header> <div> <a href="/web/20120516042436/http://www.economist.com/users/leftwingcapitalist/comments" title="View LeftWingCapitalist's profile">LeftWingCapitalist</a> <time class="created" title="2012-05-14T23:38:35+00:00">May 14th 2012 23:38 GMT</time> </div> </header> <div class="comment-body"><p>The Electoral College in the United States is a relic of a time when the popular vote was not trusted by the writers of the US Constitution. Presidential electors were to be appointed by each state's Legislature. Also, the Senate, as set up in the Constitution, was not elected by popular vote; it, too, was composed of people appointed by the various State legislatures. </p> <p>The Constitution's establishment of presidential electors--the Constitution does not use the term "electoral college," merely referring to "electors"--compounded the political and governmental power of the wealthier people, especially those in the smaller states.</p> <p>A reasonable solution that does not require a Constitutional Amendment, but which requires acceptance by state legislatures, is slowly gaining ground. It is called National Popular Vote. Once adopted by a sufficient number of States accounting for a majority of the electors, this legislation would award those States' electoral votes entirely to the winner of the popular vote in the national election, without regard to the winner of the vote in any individual State. California, with the largest number of electoral votes, has recently enacted this law.</p> </div> <footer class="clearfix"> <ul class="links"><li class="comment_recommend first"><a href="/web/20120516042436/http://www.economist.com/vote/recommend-comment/1417180?token=a3a41a46958039c26c9e363be091af27&nid=21554449&page=0&sort=0" title="Recommend comment: The Electoral College in the" class="recommend" data-ec-omniture="recommend_comment" rel="nofollow">Recommend</a> <div><span>2</span></div></li> <li class="comment_report_abuse"><a href="/web/20120516042436/http://www.economist.com/report-abuse/comment/21554449/1417180?destination=node%2F21554449" title="Report this comment to our moderators" class="report-anchor secondary-action" data-form-ajax="/ajax/report-abuse/comment/21554449/1417180" rel="nofollow">Report</a></li> <li class="permalink"><a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20120516042436/http://www.economist.com/comment/1417180#comment-1417180" title="Permanent link to this comment" rel="nofollow" class=" secondary-action">Permalink</a></li> <li class="comment_reply last"><a href="/web/20120516042436/http://www.economist.com/comment/reply/21554449/1417180" data-form-ajax="/ajax/comment/reply/21554449/1417180">reply</a></li> </ul> </footer> </article> <article id="comment-1416414" class="single-comment"> <header> <div> <a href="/web/20120516042436/http://www.economist.com/users/luckydogguy/comments" title="View Luckydogguy's profile">Luckydogguy</a> <time class="created" title="2012-05-14T15:05:23+00:00">May 14th 2012 15:05 GMT</time> </div> </header> <div class="comment-body"><p>The constitution is also a relic. Some relics have enduring utility. Don't so essily dismiss this one. Imagine the 2000 US election without the electoral college? We would sill be counting hanging chads.</p> </div> <footer class="clearfix"> <ul class="links"><li class="comment_recommend first"><a href="/web/20120516042436/http://www.economist.com/vote/recommend-comment/1416414?token=f5a61581f74a5b81d4ba17c92929cca6&nid=21554449&page=0&sort=0" title="Recommend comment: The constitution is also a" class="recommend" data-ec-omniture="recommend_comment" rel="nofollow">Recommend</a> <div><span>2</span></div></li> <li class="comment_report_abuse"><a href="/web/20120516042436/http://www.economist.com/report-abuse/comment/21554449/1416414?destination=node%2F21554449" title="Report this comment to our moderators" class="report-anchor secondary-action" data-form-ajax="/ajax/report-abuse/comment/21554449/1416414" rel="nofollow">Report</a></li> <li class="permalink"><a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20120516042436/http://www.economist.com/comment/1416414#comment-1416414" title="Permanent link to this comment" rel="nofollow" class=" secondary-action">Permalink</a></li> <li class="comment_reply last"><a href="/web/20120516042436/http://www.economist.com/comment/reply/21554449/1416414" data-form-ajax="/ajax/comment/reply/21554449/1416414">reply</a></li> </ul> </footer> </article> <article id="comment-1415510" class="single-comment"> <header> <div> <a href="/web/20120516042436/http://www.economist.com/users/stevelaudig/comments" title="View SteveLaudig's profile">SteveLaudig</a> <time class="created" title="2012-05-13T22:45:32+00:00">May 13th 2012 22:45 GMT</time> </div> </header> <div class="comment-body"><p>The electoral college, along with the senate, prevent the federal government of the US from being considered a democracy. They are relics of the politics of protecting slavery. The electoral college is a resetting time bomb that will go off regularly producing increasingly serious disasters. Hayes-Tilden was the warning. W [as in 'Worst'] was the most recent. It is a device that produced the worst president ever, and probably the worst for a long time. Keeping it is large evidence of how broke the US federal government is. The Senate, with its filibuster, provides all the evidence one needs to conclude that, presently, the US political system is incapable of the reforms necessary to keep it from continuing to collapse. It fails to hold its elite accountable in any meaningful way.</p> </div> <footer class="clearfix"> <ul class="links"><li class="comment_recommend first"><a href="/web/20120516042436/http://www.economist.com/vote/recommend-comment/1415510?token=939987c8b97c8f965b9c86832cd50405&nid=21554449&page=0&sort=0" title="Recommend comment: The electoral college, along" class="recommend" data-ec-omniture="recommend_comment" rel="nofollow">Recommend</a> <div><span>9</span></div></li> <li class="comment_report_abuse"><a href="/web/20120516042436/http://www.economist.com/report-abuse/comment/21554449/1415510?destination=node%2F21554449" title="Report this comment to our moderators" class="report-anchor secondary-action" data-form-ajax="/ajax/report-abuse/comment/21554449/1415510" rel="nofollow">Report</a></li> <li class="permalink"><a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20120516042436/http://www.economist.com/comment/1415510#comment-1415510" title="Permanent link to this comment" rel="nofollow" class=" secondary-action">Permalink</a></li> <li class="comment_reply last"><a href="/web/20120516042436/http://www.economist.com/comment/reply/21554449/1415510" data-form-ajax="/ajax/comment/reply/21554449/1415510">reply</a></li> </ul> </footer> </article> <article id="comment-1414581" class="single-comment"> <header> <div> <a href="/web/20120516042436/http://www.economist.com/users/tanstafl/comments" title="View tanstafl's profile">tanstafl</a> <time class="created" title="2012-05-13T03:01:08+00:00">May 13th 2012 3:01 GMT</time> </div> </header> <div class="comment-body"><p>the electoral college keeps this country together. I am a firm believer that a respect, a sense of place is important. Rural,urban,north, south, east and west. This country spans the continent. Its a federal constitutional republic and I like it that way. Two thumbs up for the union of states and the electoral college.</p> </div> <footer class="clearfix"> <ul class="links"><li class="comment_recommend first"><a href="/web/20120516042436/http://www.economist.com/vote/recommend-comment/1414581?token=c2be2521e536efee11fe9f3e5a87d0dd&nid=21554449&page=0&sort=0" title="Recommend comment: the electoral college keeps" class="recommend" data-ec-omniture="recommend_comment" rel="nofollow">Recommend</a> <div><span>5</span></div></li> <li class="comment_report_abuse"><a href="/web/20120516042436/http://www.economist.com/report-abuse/comment/21554449/1414581?destination=node%2F21554449" title="Report this comment to our moderators" class="report-anchor secondary-action" data-form-ajax="/ajax/report-abuse/comment/21554449/1414581" rel="nofollow">Report</a></li> <li class="permalink"><a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20120516042436/http://www.economist.com/comment/1414581#comment-1414581" title="Permanent link to this comment" rel="nofollow" class=" secondary-action">Permalink</a></li> <li class="comment_reply last"><a href="/web/20120516042436/http://www.economist.com/comment/reply/21554449/1414581" data-form-ajax="/ajax/comment/reply/21554449/1414581">reply</a></li> </ul> </footer> </article> <article id="comment-1414226" class="single-comment"> <header> <div> <a href="/web/20120516042436/http://www.economist.com/users/christophercarlson/comments" title="View ChristopherCarlson's profile">ChristopherCarlson</a> <time class="created" title="2012-05-12T20:38:06+00:00">May 12th 2012 20:38 GMT</time> </div> </header> <div class="comment-body"><p>Democracy can be a very dangerous tool, as populism and sensationalism can lead an electorate to do some very treacherous things. The Electoral College is the responsible regulator to raw democracy, and without this system, we cannot have a liable system. Let’s keep the Electoral College so we can assure our democracy remains strong and safe.</p> </div> <footer class="clearfix"> <ul class="links"><li class="comment_recommend first"><a href="/web/20120516042436/http://www.economist.com/vote/recommend-comment/1414226?token=aad16f7b7d8c840d057b270cf55206b2&nid=21554449&page=0&sort=0" title="Recommend comment: Democracy can be a very" class="recommend" data-ec-omniture="recommend_comment" rel="nofollow">Recommend</a> <div><span>8</span></div></li> <li class="comment_report_abuse"><a href="/web/20120516042436/http://www.economist.com/report-abuse/comment/21554449/1414226?destination=node%2F21554449" title="Report this comment to our moderators" class="report-anchor secondary-action" data-form-ajax="/ajax/report-abuse/comment/21554449/1414226" rel="nofollow">Report</a></li> <li class="permalink"><a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20120516042436/http://www.economist.com/comment/1414226#comment-1414226" title="Permanent link to this comment" rel="nofollow" class=" secondary-action">Permalink</a></li> <li class="comment_reply last"><a href="/web/20120516042436/http://www.economist.com/comment/reply/21554449/1414226" data-form-ajax="/ajax/comment/reply/21554449/1414226">reply</a></li> </ul> </footer> </article> <article id="comment-1413238" class="single-comment"> <header> <div> <a href="/web/20120516042436/http://www.economist.com/users/jfallas/comments" title="View JFallas's profile">JFallas</a> <time class="created" title="2012-05-12T06:35:52+00:00">May 12th 2012 6:35 GMT</time> </div> </header> <div class="comment-body"><p>Yes, it has more than 200 years. And it has proven to be the most succesful and long peaceful mechanism to transfer power. And it gives a bigger mandate to the President than the popular vote. But so do Elections in the Westminster System. In the General Election of 1997, Labour picked 43% of the popular vote but 2/3 of the seats in Parliament.</p> </div> <footer class="clearfix"> <ul class="links"><li class="comment_recommend first"><a href="/web/20120516042436/http://www.economist.com/vote/recommend-comment/1413238?token=b132549ea7d148c3736ad28c334567f4&nid=21554449&page=0&sort=0" title="Recommend comment: Yes, it has more than 200" class="recommend" data-ec-omniture="recommend_comment" rel="nofollow">Recommend</a> <div><span>6</span></div></li> <li class="comment_report_abuse"><a href="/web/20120516042436/http://www.economist.com/report-abuse/comment/21554449/1413238?destination=node%2F21554449" title="Report this comment to our moderators" class="report-anchor secondary-action" data-form-ajax="/ajax/report-abuse/comment/21554449/1413238" rel="nofollow">Report</a></li> <li class="permalink"><a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20120516042436/http://www.economist.com/comment/1413238#comment-1413238" title="Permanent link to this comment" rel="nofollow" class=" secondary-action">Permalink</a></li> <li class="comment_reply last"><a href="/web/20120516042436/http://www.economist.com/comment/reply/21554449/1413238" data-form-ajax="/ajax/comment/reply/21554449/1413238">reply</a></li> </ul> </footer> </article> <article id="comment-1412938" class="single-comment"> <header> <div> <a href="/web/20120516042436/http://www.economist.com/user/2289181/comments" title="View Thatseasy's profile">Thatseasy</a> <time class="created" title="2012-05-12T00:53:06+00:00">May 12th 2012 0:53 GMT</time> </div> </header> <div class="comment-body"><p>I will abstain of cynicism and personal attacks on this thread, just contributing with what we can so that non-Americans can understand better our system.</p> <p>A typical question is "How come a candidate can win the election with less popular vote than the other"? As was the case of GW Bush and other presidents in the US.</p> <p>*** ( please spare me the 2000 elections ranting and the SC etc; I was living in Brevard Co just where the mess happened and Bush was always ahead by 537 votes - he won, that's that).</p> <p>Back to topic: this situation occurs when 2 states with similar EC votes but one more than other, but the one with MORE ECV have less voters than the other state with LESS ECV. </p> <p>For example, lets say that State A has 15 ECVs with a voting population of 4 millions, and State B has 11 ECVS with a voting population of 3 millions. </p> <p>But only 40% of State A show up to vote (so 1.6 millions) and Candidate X wins, while 70% of State B shows up (so 2.1 millions) and Candidate Y wins. </p> <p>The presidential candidate X has LESS popular votes than Candidate Y, but larger ECV than Candidate Y, therefore he has higher chances of achieving the total tally of 270 ECV nationwide.</p> <p>. But in State A only 40% of the population showed up to vote, while in State B,</p> </div> <footer class="clearfix"> <ul class="links"><li class="comment_recommend first"><a href="/web/20120516042436/http://www.economist.com/vote/recommend-comment/1412938?token=97159422773dc06c3b00a921d12ef5ba&nid=21554449&page=0&sort=0" title="Recommend comment: I will abstain of cynicism" class="recommend" data-ec-omniture="recommend_comment" rel="nofollow">Recommend</a> <div><span>11</span></div></li> <li class="comment_report_abuse"><a href="/web/20120516042436/http://www.economist.com/report-abuse/comment/21554449/1412938?destination=node%2F21554449" title="Report this comment to our moderators" class="report-anchor secondary-action" data-form-ajax="/ajax/report-abuse/comment/21554449/1412938" rel="nofollow">Report</a></li> <li class="permalink"><a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20120516042436/http://www.economist.com/comment/1412938#comment-1412938" title="Permanent link to this comment" rel="nofollow" class=" secondary-action">Permalink</a></li> <li class="comment_reply last"><a href="/web/20120516042436/http://www.economist.com/comment/reply/21554449/1412938" data-form-ajax="/ajax/comment/reply/21554449/1412938">reply</a></li> </ul> </footer> <section class="indented"> <article id="comment-1412940" class="single-comment"> <header> <div> <a href="/web/20120516042436/http://www.economist.com/user/2289181/comments" title="View Thatseasy's profile">Thatseasy</a> <a href="/web/20120516042436/http://www.economist.com/comment/1412938#comment-1412938" class="reply-to">in reply to Thatseasy</a> <time class="created" title="2012-05-12T00:55:53+00:00">May 12th 2012 0:55 GMT</time> </div> </header> <div class="comment-body"><p>*** Disregard the last sentence - typing error.</p> </div> <footer class="clearfix"> <ul class="links"><li class="comment_recommend first"><a href="/web/20120516042436/http://www.economist.com/vote/recommend-comment/1412940?token=96b3045685e01e43df78651dd54f8b0a&nid=21554449&page=0&sort=0" title="Recommend comment: *** Disregard the last" class="recommend" data-ec-omniture="recommend_comment" rel="nofollow">Recommend</a> <div><span>9</span></div></li> <li class="comment_report_abuse"><a href="/web/20120516042436/http://www.economist.com/report-abuse/comment/21554449/1412940?destination=node%2F21554449" title="Report this comment to our moderators" class="report-anchor secondary-action" data-form-ajax="/ajax/report-abuse/comment/21554449/1412940" rel="nofollow">Report</a></li> <li class="permalink"><a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20120516042436/http://www.economist.com/comment/1412940#comment-1412940" title="Permanent link to this comment" rel="nofollow" class=" secondary-action">Permalink</a></li> <li class="comment_reply last"><a href="/web/20120516042436/http://www.economist.com/comment/reply/21554449/1412940" data-form-ajax="/ajax/comment/reply/21554449/1412940">reply</a></li> </ul> </footer> </article> </section> </article> <article id="comment-1412902" class="single-comment"> <header> <div> <a href="/web/20120516042436/http://www.economist.com/user/2289181/comments" title="View Thatseasy's profile">Thatseasy</a> <time class="created" title="2012-05-12T00:06:22+00:00">May 12th 2012 0:06 GMT</time> </div> </header> <div class="comment-body"><p>The EC with all its flaw is still the best system there is for a Federation. The EU tried to copy it but in their case the population gaps were immense between their member states - therefore to come out with a formula that would give the 10k people in Luxemburg some saying while having some valid proportionality with the 90millions in Germany was quite a task.</p> <p>In the US the disparity of populations between Wyoming and California are also big but defenetly much smaller than the EUnion members.</p> <p>I still think it was genious idea of the founding fathers to make sure every single state had some weight in the general elections, and that weight it's reflected in the ECV. Yes, the ECVs do not reflect a 100% accurate proportionality, but any other way would be terribly unfair to members of this federation.</p> <p>The current system, whatever the cynics say, IS a democratic one because each state operates like a mini country where the absolute majority (50+1) wins the presidency, except that that totality only becomes part of a larger pool with other states doing the same.</p> <p>It would be terribly unfair if Wyoming and California weighted the same way when California has 30 times a larger population, but it would also be unfair if ONLY California votes counted because they have the most people. In that case, it wouldnt be a Federation just a conglomerate of towns and all the purpose of states autonomy while contributing to the whole wouldnt have any meaning.</p> <p>I dont see any other way of doing it. The popular vote exists at state level. It would be wrong to make it nation wide. If that is the case then those states with less population would to better becoming separate countries.</p> </div> <footer class="clearfix"> <ul class="links"><li class="comment_recommend first"><a href="/web/20120516042436/http://www.economist.com/vote/recommend-comment/1412902?token=29cd2611a3bdafb7a8e2809c14517e6d&nid=21554449&page=0&sort=0" title="Recommend comment: The EC with all its flaw is" class="recommend" data-ec-omniture="recommend_comment" rel="nofollow">Recommend</a> <div><span>7</span></div></li> <li class="comment_report_abuse"><a href="/web/20120516042436/http://www.economist.com/report-abuse/comment/21554449/1412902?destination=node%2F21554449" title="Report this comment to our moderators" class="report-anchor secondary-action" data-form-ajax="/ajax/report-abuse/comment/21554449/1412902" rel="nofollow">Report</a></li> <li class="permalink"><a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20120516042436/http://www.economist.com/comment/1412902#comment-1412902" title="Permanent link to this comment" rel="nofollow" class=" secondary-action">Permalink</a></li> <li class="comment_reply last"><a href="/web/20120516042436/http://www.economist.com/comment/reply/21554449/1412902" data-form-ajax="/ajax/comment/reply/21554449/1412902">reply</a></li> </ul> </footer> <section class="indented"> <article id="comment-1416085" class="single-comment"> <header> <div> <a href="/web/20120516042436/http://www.economist.com/user/4540462/comments" title="View Vozone's profile">Vozone</a> <a href="/web/20120516042436/http://www.economist.com/comment/1412902#comment-1412902" class="reply-to">in reply to Thatseasy</a> <time class="created" title="2012-05-14T10:57:31+00:00">May 14th 2012 10:57 GMT</time> </div> </header> <div class="comment-body"><p>I'm not American, and this video is basically my grasp of the election process in USA. It seems like a pretty solid system but also conveys some ideas that are against democracy.</p> <p>Like communism, democracy is an ideal whose feasibility depends on certain factors that are very difficult to achieve, in the case of democracy, that everyone makes a rational and educated decision when going to the ballots. Most people don't and follow sensationalism and populism as has been mentioned here in the comments and that is where the system fails. Undeserving candidates win elections when others who are actually better choices fail for not having the strongest slogan or the right look.</p> <p>What I find confusing is the false sense of unity that the ECV's represent. Since most states with the exceptions stated in the video deposit all their votes on the winning candidate, on paper it looks like there's unanimous and unopposed support to that candidate. </p> <p>Why isn't there a proportionate number of ECV's and seats that go to the opposition based on state level results? Just because Obama wins in California, you can't possibly conceive that every Californian voter supports him. Maybe ECV's for the losing candidate wouldn't be exactly proportionate according to popular vote but maybe have a threshold that would grant a certain amount of ECV's without undermining the winning candidate's position.</p> </div> <footer class="clearfix"> <ul class="links"><li class="comment_recommend first"><a href="/web/20120516042436/http://www.economist.com/vote/recommend-comment/1416085?token=44484be9dc5250a0eff2bb7f8753c619&nid=21554449&page=0&sort=0" title="Recommend comment: I'm not American, and this" class="recommend" data-ec-omniture="recommend_comment" rel="nofollow">Recommend</a> <div><span>3</span></div></li> <li class="comment_report_abuse"><a href="/web/20120516042436/http://www.economist.com/report-abuse/comment/21554449/1416085?destination=node%2F21554449" title="Report this comment to our moderators" class="report-anchor secondary-action" data-form-ajax="/ajax/report-abuse/comment/21554449/1416085" rel="nofollow">Report</a></li> <li class="permalink"><a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20120516042436/http://www.economist.com/comment/1416085#comment-1416085" title="Permanent link to this comment" rel="nofollow" class=" secondary-action">Permalink</a></li> <li class="comment_reply last"><a href="/web/20120516042436/http://www.economist.com/comment/reply/21554449/1416085" data-form-ajax="/ajax/comment/reply/21554449/1416085">reply</a></li> </ul> </footer> </article> </section> </article> <article id="comment-1412823" class="single-comment"> <header> <div> <a href="/web/20120516042436/http://www.economist.com/users/everafter/comments" title="View everafter's profile">everafter</a> <time class="created" title="2012-05-11T22:46:51+00:00">May 11th 2012 22:46 GMT</time> </div> </header> <div class="comment-body"><p>Yes, yes you have it right regarding how it works. What is astounding is that it was seen many years ago that the people on both coasts would fall off the tracks and need those still attached to the land to help guide them.</p> </div> <footer class="clearfix"> <ul class="links"><li class="comment_recommend first"><a href="/web/20120516042436/http://www.economist.com/vote/recommend-comment/1412823?token=b52057d7145d962db825b827bf45281c&nid=21554449&page=0&sort=0" title="Recommend comment: Yes, yes you have it right" class="recommend" data-ec-omniture="recommend_comment" rel="nofollow">Recommend</a> <div><span>9</span></div></li> <li class="comment_report_abuse"><a href="/web/20120516042436/http://www.economist.com/report-abuse/comment/21554449/1412823?destination=node%2F21554449" title="Report this comment to our moderators" class="report-anchor secondary-action" data-form-ajax="/ajax/report-abuse/comment/21554449/1412823" rel="nofollow">Report</a></li> <li class="permalink"><a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20120516042436/http://www.economist.com/comment/1412823#comment-1412823" title="Permanent link to this comment" rel="nofollow" class=" secondary-action">Permalink</a></li> <li class="comment_reply last"><a href="/web/20120516042436/http://www.economist.com/comment/reply/21554449/1412823" data-form-ajax="/ajax/comment/reply/21554449/1412823">reply</a></li> </ul> </footer> </article> <article id="comment-1411650" class="single-comment"> <header> <div> <a href="/web/20120516042436/http://www.economist.com/user/1362618/comments" title="View ginmartini's profile">ginmartini</a> <time class="created" title="2012-05-11T11:29:56+00:00">May 11th 2012 11:29 GMT</time> </div> </header> <div class="comment-body"><p>If the founding fathers came back to life suddenly, they would probably be in favor of scrapping the Constitution and creating a new document. Things have changed. We are not a collection of sovereign states anymore.</p> </div> <footer class="clearfix"> <ul class="links"><li class="comment_recommend first"><a href="/web/20120516042436/http://www.economist.com/vote/recommend-comment/1411650?token=c31c6a5dda1120b5b868215f586d36d0&nid=21554449&page=0&sort=0" title="Recommend comment: If the founding fathers came" class="recommend" data-ec-omniture="recommend_comment" rel="nofollow">Recommend</a> <div><span>11</span></div></li> <li class="comment_report_abuse"><a href="/web/20120516042436/http://www.economist.com/report-abuse/comment/21554449/1411650?destination=node%2F21554449" title="Report this comment to our moderators" class="report-anchor secondary-action" data-form-ajax="/ajax/report-abuse/comment/21554449/1411650" rel="nofollow">Report</a></li> <li class="permalink"><a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20120516042436/http://www.economist.com/comment/1411650#comment-1411650" title="Permanent link to this comment" rel="nofollow" class=" secondary-action">Permalink</a></li> <li class="comment_reply last"><a href="/web/20120516042436/http://www.economist.com/comment/reply/21554449/1411650" data-form-ajax="/ajax/comment/reply/21554449/1411650">reply</a></li> </ul> </footer> <section class="indented"> <article id="comment-1411852" class="single-comment"> <header> <div> <a href="/web/20120516042436/http://www.economist.com/users/michael-dunne/comments" title="View Michael Dunne's profile">Michael Dunne</a> <a href="/web/20120516042436/http://www.economist.com/comment/1411650#comment-1411650" class="reply-to">in reply to ginmartini</a> <time class="created" title="2012-05-11T13:51:02+00:00">May 11th 2012 13:51 GMT</time> </div> </header> <div class="comment-body"><p>We were rarely a collection of sovereign states. </p> <p>From the declaration of independence to Washington's getting sworn in as president, you are only talking about 13 years.</p> <p>And a good number of those 13 years was dominated by a confederation.</p> </div> <footer class="clearfix"> <ul class="links"><li class="comment_recommend first"><a href="/web/20120516042436/http://www.economist.com/vote/recommend-comment/1411852?token=53479d15dfeca35fb8b7729a11537b25&nid=21554449&page=0&sort=0" title="Recommend comment: We were rarely a collection" class="recommend" data-ec-omniture="recommend_comment" rel="nofollow">Recommend</a> <div><span>9</span></div></li> <li class="comment_report_abuse"><a href="/web/20120516042436/http://www.economist.com/report-abuse/comment/21554449/1411852?destination=node%2F21554449" title="Report this comment to our moderators" class="report-anchor secondary-action" data-form-ajax="/ajax/report-abuse/comment/21554449/1411852" rel="nofollow">Report</a></li> <li class="permalink"><a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20120516042436/http://www.economist.com/comment/1411852#comment-1411852" title="Permanent link to this comment" rel="nofollow" class=" secondary-action">Permalink</a></li> <li class="comment_reply last"><a href="/web/20120516042436/http://www.economist.com/comment/reply/21554449/1411852" data-form-ajax="/ajax/comment/reply/21554449/1411852">reply</a></li> </ul> </footer> </article> <article id="comment-1412812" class="single-comment"> <header> <div> <a href="/web/20120516042436/http://www.economist.com/users/gh1618/comments" title="View GH1618's profile">GH1618</a> <a href="/web/20120516042436/http://www.economist.com/comment/1411650#comment-1411650" class="reply-to">in reply to ginmartini</a> <time class="created" title="2012-05-11T22:40:17+00:00">May 11th 2012 22:40 GMT</time> </div> </header> <div class="comment-body"><p>I doubt it, but it's pointless to argue what the founding fathers would think today, as if anybody could know (although many people do, anyway). I expect they would be satisfied that their work has lasted so long with so little modification, and would be awestruck at all the changes in modern civilization generally.</p> </div> <footer class="clearfix"> <ul class="links"><li class="comment_recommend first"><a href="/web/20120516042436/http://www.economist.com/vote/recommend-comment/1412812?token=9f9023493fa681443cafb13966cec576&nid=21554449&page=0&sort=0" title="Recommend comment: I doubt it, but it's" class="recommend" data-ec-omniture="recommend_comment" rel="nofollow">Recommend</a> <div><span>9</span></div></li> <li class="comment_report_abuse"><a href="/web/20120516042436/http://www.economist.com/report-abuse/comment/21554449/1412812?destination=node%2F21554449" title="Report this comment to our moderators" class="report-anchor secondary-action" data-form-ajax="/ajax/report-abuse/comment/21554449/1412812" rel="nofollow">Report</a></li> <li class="permalink"><a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20120516042436/http://www.economist.com/comment/1412812#comment-1412812" title="Permanent link to this comment" rel="nofollow" class=" secondary-action">Permalink</a></li> <li class="comment_reply last"><a href="/web/20120516042436/http://www.economist.com/comment/reply/21554449/1412812" data-form-ajax="/ajax/comment/reply/21554449/1412812">reply</a></li> </ul> </footer> </article> <article id="comment-1413703" class="single-comment deep-reply"> <header> <div> <a href="/web/20120516042436/http://www.economist.com/user/2896191/comments" title="View DarthSidious's profile">DarthSidious</a> <a href="/web/20120516042436/http://www.economist.com/comment/1411852#comment-1411852" class="reply-to">in reply to Michael Dunne</a> <time class="created" title="2012-05-12T14:39:31+00:00">May 12th 2012 14:39 GMT</time> </div> </header> <div class="comment-body"><p>Europe's mistake is that it has been stuck in a Confederation for 50+ years. They never managed to draw up a proper Constitution, but just went from one confederation to another. The Electoral College system could easily be made to work if Europe elected a single president.</p> </div> <footer class="clearfix"> <ul class="links"><li class="comment_recommend first"><a href="/web/20120516042436/http://www.economist.com/vote/recommend-comment/1413703?token=cb0d6bdd845e6eaf23ba46ad776de325&nid=21554449&page=0&sort=0" title="Recommend comment: Europe's mistake is that it" class="recommend" data-ec-omniture="recommend_comment" rel="nofollow">Recommend</a> <div><span>7</span></div></li> <li class="comment_report_abuse"><a href="/web/20120516042436/http://www.economist.com/report-abuse/comment/21554449/1413703?destination=node%2F21554449" title="Report this comment to our moderators" class="report-anchor secondary-action" data-form-ajax="/ajax/report-abuse/comment/21554449/1413703" rel="nofollow">Report</a></li> <li class="permalink"><a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20120516042436/http://www.economist.com/comment/1413703#comment-1413703" title="Permanent link to this comment" rel="nofollow" class=" secondary-action">Permalink</a></li> <li class="comment_reply last"><a href="/web/20120516042436/http://www.economist.com/comment/reply/21554449/1413703" data-form-ajax="/ajax/comment/reply/21554449/1413703">reply</a></li> </ul> </footer> </article> </section> </article> <article id="comment-1411279" class="single-comment"> <header> <div> <a href="/web/20120516042436/http://www.economist.com/users/abdelkader-hamdaoui/comments" title="View Abdelkader Hamdaoui's profile">Abdelkader Hamdaoui</a> <time class="created" title="2012-05-11T05:45:44+00:00">May 11th 2012 5:45 GMT</time> </div> </header> <div class="comment-body"><p>Americans live in the past and are quite happy doing so right into the future. All that is require to win an election is to concentrate on the States with the highest population and the most electors, starting with California, Texas, New York, Florida, Illinois, Pennsylvania, Ohio, Michigan, Georgia, North Carolina, New Jersey, Virginia and a few others, forget about Alaska, Delaware, Montana, North Dakota, South Dakota, Vermont and Wyoming.</p> </div> <footer class="clearfix"> <ul class="links"><li class="comment_recommend first"><a href="/web/20120516042436/http://www.economist.com/vote/recommend-comment/1411279?token=ec0f197d705288d875065f9e2438b346&nid=21554449&page=0&sort=0" title="Recommend comment: Americans live in the past" class="recommend" data-ec-omniture="recommend_comment" rel="nofollow">Recommend</a> <div><span>12</span></div></li> <li class="comment_report_abuse"><a href="/web/20120516042436/http://www.economist.com/report-abuse/comment/21554449/1411279?destination=node%2F21554449" title="Report this comment to our moderators" class="report-anchor secondary-action" data-form-ajax="/ajax/report-abuse/comment/21554449/1411279" rel="nofollow">Report</a></li> <li class="permalink"><a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20120516042436/http://www.economist.com/comment/1411279#comment-1411279" title="Permanent link to this comment" rel="nofollow" class=" secondary-action">Permalink</a></li> <li class="comment_reply last"><a href="/web/20120516042436/http://www.economist.com/comment/reply/21554449/1411279" data-form-ajax="/ajax/comment/reply/21554449/1411279">reply</a></li> </ul> </footer> </article> <article id="comment-1411181" class="single-comment"> <header> <div> <a href="/web/20120516042436/http://www.economist.com/users/vffm4r5nlm/comments" title="View vffM4r5nLm's profile">vffM4r5nLm</a> <time class="created" title="2012-05-11T04:26:13+00:00">May 11th 2012 4:26 GMT</time> </div> </header> <div class="comment-body"><p>One of the features of the Electoral College has not been much discussed, the issue of deliberation and decision-making. Originally, the electors were independent of any obligation. Given the difficulties of communication and travel at the time the College was created, the intent was to provide sufficient opportunity for the Electors to convene, to deliberate and to make a determination of who was most suitable for the Presidency. Curiously, in this day of instant communication, I believe that delay and opportunity to deliberate continues as a major advantage of the system. We all have experience or knowledge of initial positions taken with regard to issues that, with the passage of time, become unsustainable. Think of any rush to judgement that is later shown to be incorrect. With instant communication, "viral" communication can sweep the electorate at the last minute--one would expect this tactic to become "de rigeur" with the two major parties. However, unencumbered Electors, in the College, have the opportunity and time to move beyond these waves of sentiment.</p> <p>The Electoral College was, as I understand, deliberately crafted to avoid direct elections, a popular democracy, as the Founders created a republic that attempted to balance power among the citizens and responsibility and authority among the elected officials. I believe that need still exists as most of us do not spend the requisite time and energy to familiarize ourselves with important aspects of most issues. We are, truly, a validation of the wisdom of the crowd. But, we can be swayed irrationally.</p> <p>The Electoral College is not perfect, but it does represent a structure that responded to the shortcomings of the European system of governance from which most founders came. I believe that, curiously, the biggest problem in the system is not structural, but is in the apathy of all of us citizens who do not make much time for the importance of our elections. </p> <p>As to the issue of a popular vote including illegally resident persons, I believe any of the authors touting such a scheme would be opposed to massive numbers of US citizens moving into their native countries and voting "en mass" to create a system they prefer. I prefer the Electoral College to remain as is, to reflect the votes of US citizens, and allow the States, which regulate Electors, to continue structuring how their Electors will vote. I do not favor a popularly-elected national leadership (President, vice-President).</p> </div> <footer class="clearfix"> <ul class="links"><li class="comment_recommend first"><a href="/web/20120516042436/http://www.economist.com/vote/recommend-comment/1411181?token=e98c6e7fab41959d8320607ec1a09a70&nid=21554449&page=0&sort=0" title="Recommend comment: One of the features of the" class="recommend" data-ec-omniture="recommend_comment" rel="nofollow">Recommend</a> <div><span>12</span></div></li> <li class="comment_report_abuse"><a href="/web/20120516042436/http://www.economist.com/report-abuse/comment/21554449/1411181?destination=node%2F21554449" title="Report this comment to our moderators" class="report-anchor secondary-action" data-form-ajax="/ajax/report-abuse/comment/21554449/1411181" rel="nofollow">Report</a></li> <li class="permalink"><a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20120516042436/http://www.economist.com/comment/1411181#comment-1411181" title="Permanent link to this comment" rel="nofollow" class=" secondary-action">Permalink</a></li> <li class="comment_reply last"><a href="/web/20120516042436/http://www.economist.com/comment/reply/21554449/1411181" data-form-ajax="/ajax/comment/reply/21554449/1411181">reply</a></li> </ul> </footer> <section class="indented"> <article id="comment-1412256" class="single-comment"> <header> <div> <a href="/web/20120516042436/http://www.economist.com/user/2980669/comments" title="View mvymvy's profile">mvymvy</a> <a href="/web/20120516042436/http://www.economist.com/comment/1411181#comment-1411181" class="reply-to">in reply to vffM4r5nLm</a> <time class="created" title="2012-05-11T17:16:31+00:00">May 11th 2012 17:16 GMT</time> </div> </header> <div class="comment-body"><p>The current system does not provide some kind of check on the "mobs." There have been 22,000 electoral votes cast since presidential elections became competitive (in 1796), and only 10 have been cast for someone other than the candidate nominated by the elector's own political party. The electors now are dedicated party activists of the winning party who meet briefly in mid-December to cast their totally predictable rubberstamped votes in accordance with their pre-announced pledges. </p> <p>Prior to arriving at the eventual wording of section 1 of Article II, the Constitutional Convention specifically voted against a number of different methods for selecting the President, including<br/> ● having state legislatures choose the President,<br/> ● having governors choose the President, and<br/> ● a national popular vote.<br/> After these (and other) methods were debated and rejected, the Constitutional Convention decided to leave the entire matter to the states.</p> <p>The Founding Fathers in the Constitution did not require states to allow their citizens to vote for president, much less award all their electoral votes based upon the vote of their citizens. </p> <p>The presidential election system we have today is not in the Constitution. State-by-state winner-take-all laws to award Electoral College votes, were eventually enacted by states, using their exclusive power to do so, AFTER the Founding Fathers wrote the Constitution. </p> <p>Unable to agree on any particular method for selecting presidential electors, the Founding Fathers left the choice of method exclusively to the states in section 1 of Article II of the U.S. Constitution-- "Each State shall appoint, in such Manner as the Legislature thereof may direct, a Number of Electors . . ." The U.S. Supreme Court has repeatedly characterized the authority of the state legislatures over the manner of awarding their electoral votes as "plenary" and "exclusive."</p> <p>The constitution does not prohibit any of the methods that were debated and rejected. Indeed, a majority of the states appointed their presidential electors using two of the rejected methods in the nation's first presidential election in 1789 (i.e., appointment by the legislature and by the governor and his cabinet). Presidential electors were appointed by state legislatures for almost a century. </p> <p>Neither of the two most important features of the current system of electing the President (namely, universal suffrage, and the 48 state-by-state winner-take-all method) are in the U.S. Constitution. Neither was the choice of the Founders when they went back to their states to organize the nation's first presidential election.</p> <p>In 1789, in the nation's first election, the people had no vote for President in most states, only men who owned a substantial amount of property could vote, and only three states used the state-by-state winner-take-all method to award electoral votes.</p> <p>The current 48 state-by-state winner-take-all method is not entitled to any special deference based on history or the historical meaning of the words in the U.S. Constitution. It is not mentioned in the U.S. Constitution, the debates of the Constitutional Convention, or the Federalist Papers. The actions taken by the Founding Fathers make it clear that they never gave their imprimatur to the winner-take-all method.</p> <p>The constitutional wording does not encourage, discourage, require, or prohibit the use of any particular method for awarding the state's electoral votes.</p> <p>As a result of changes in state laws enacted since 1789, the people have the right to vote for presidential electors in 100% of the states, there are no property requirements for voting in any state, and the state-by-state winner-take-all method is used by 48 of the 50 states. States can, and frequently have, changed their method of awarding electoral votes over the years. </p> <p>The precariousness of the current state-by-state winner-take-all system of awarding electoral votes is highlighted by the fact that a shift of a few thousand voters in one or two states would have elected the second-place candidate in 4 of the 13 presidential elections since World War II. Near misses are now frequently common. There have been 6 consecutive non-landslide presidential elections (1988, 1992, 1996, 2000, 2004, and 2008). 537 popular votes won Florida and the White House for Bush in 2000 despite Gore's lead of 537,179 (1,000 times more) popular votes nationwide. A shift of 60,000 voters in Ohio in 2004 would have defeated President Bush despite his nationwide lead of over 3 million votes. </p> <p>The National Popular Vote bill has nothing to do with allowing illegal residents to vote. It preserves the Electoral College and state control of elections.</p> <p>The bill would change existing state winner-take-all laws, to a system guaranteeing the majority of Electoral College votes for, and the Presidency to, the candidate getting the most popular votes in the entire country.</p> </div> <footer class="clearfix"> <ul class="links"><li class="comment_recommend first"><a href="/web/20120516042436/http://www.economist.com/vote/recommend-comment/1412256?token=43e5a1bdff42c9436679c8de4fbdbf30&nid=21554449&page=0&sort=0" title="Recommend comment: The current system does not" class="recommend" data-ec-omniture="recommend_comment" rel="nofollow">Recommend</a> <div><span>11</span></div></li> <li class="comment_report_abuse"><a href="/web/20120516042436/http://www.economist.com/report-abuse/comment/21554449/1412256?destination=node%2F21554449" title="Report this comment to our moderators" class="report-anchor secondary-action" data-form-ajax="/ajax/report-abuse/comment/21554449/1412256" rel="nofollow">Report</a></li> <li class="permalink"><a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20120516042436/http://www.economist.com/comment/1412256#comment-1412256" title="Permanent link to this comment" rel="nofollow" class=" secondary-action">Permalink</a></li> <li class="comment_reply last"><a href="/web/20120516042436/http://www.economist.com/comment/reply/21554449/1412256" data-form-ajax="/ajax/comment/reply/21554449/1412256">reply</a></li> </ul> </footer> </article> </section> </article> <article id="comment-1410251" class="single-comment"> <header> <div> <a href="/web/20120516042436/http://www.economist.com/user/3033579/comments" title="View ramananrv123's profile">ramananrv123</a> <time class="created" title="2012-05-10T19:48:58+00:00">May 10th 2012 19:48 GMT</time> </div> </header> <div class="comment-body"><p>Thanks for trying to help me understand this, but in vain, I should say.</p> </div> <footer class="clearfix"> <ul class="links"><li class="comment_recommend first"><a href="/web/20120516042436/http://www.economist.com/vote/recommend-comment/1410251?token=fcb189a57495ba03f55233f430f3d09c&nid=21554449&page=0&sort=0" title="Recommend comment: Thanks for trying to help me" class="recommend" data-ec-omniture="recommend_comment" rel="nofollow">Recommend</a> <div><span>14</span></div></li> <li class="comment_report_abuse"><a href="/web/20120516042436/http://www.economist.com/report-abuse/comment/21554449/1410251?destination=node%2F21554449" title="Report this comment to our moderators" class="report-anchor secondary-action" data-form-ajax="/ajax/report-abuse/comment/21554449/1410251" rel="nofollow">Report</a></li> <li class="permalink"><a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20120516042436/http://www.economist.com/comment/1410251#comment-1410251" title="Permanent link to this comment" rel="nofollow" class=" secondary-action">Permalink</a></li> <li class="comment_reply last"><a href="/web/20120516042436/http://www.economist.com/comment/reply/21554449/1410251" data-form-ajax="/ajax/comment/reply/21554449/1410251">reply</a></li> </ul> </footer> <section class="indented"> <article id="comment-1412923" class="single-comment"> <header> <div> <a href="/web/20120516042436/http://www.economist.com/user/2289181/comments" title="View Thatseasy's profile">Thatseasy</a> <a href="/web/20120516042436/http://www.economist.com/comment/1410251#comment-1410251" class="reply-to">in reply to ramananrv123</a> <time class="created" title="2012-05-12T00:29:14+00:00">May 12th 2012 0:29 GMT</time> </div> </header> <div class="comment-body"><p>It is really not difficult. Imagine 5 tribes which live close by and decide to share resources and commerce; they have different number of people but decide to operate under one general assembly for everything that is common to all, like having an army, a system of basic laws that applies to all, and so on.</p> <p>The first tribe has 30 members. The 2nd has 25, the 3rd has 20 and the remaining 2, 15 and 3 respectively. They will all contribute to the assembly, therefore they ALL need to be represented. It is agreed that for every 5 members of a tribe represent ONE vote (let's call it EC) in the election of the assembly leader. </p> <p>So Tribe 1 will with 30 people has 6 votes.<br/> Tribe 2 (25 people) has 5; Tribe 3 (20 people) has 4, Tribe 4 (15 people) has 3. </p> <p>But tribe 5 with just 3 people, mathematically has none, as for you cant break a person. So it's decided that 5 or less get 1 vote. </p> <p>The election: </p> <p>All 30 members in Tribe 1 vote for the candidates. Candidate A gets 16 votes so wins all 6 votes of that tribe. </p> <p>The process is then repeated to all other tribes in proportion to their members, and their "EC" votes are tallied. The candidate with the most tallied "EC" votes wins.</p> <p>Helps?</p> </div> <footer class="clearfix"> <ul class="links"><li class="comment_recommend first"><a href="/web/20120516042436/http://www.economist.com/vote/recommend-comment/1412923?token=1c21b23d8537a0283f071901b3dbfaf9&nid=21554449&page=0&sort=0" title="Recommend comment: It is really not difficult." class="recommend" data-ec-omniture="recommend_comment" rel="nofollow">Recommend</a> <div><span>9</span></div></li> <li class="comment_report_abuse"><a href="/web/20120516042436/http://www.economist.com/report-abuse/comment/21554449/1412923?destination=node%2F21554449" title="Report this comment to our moderators" class="report-anchor secondary-action" data-form-ajax="/ajax/report-abuse/comment/21554449/1412923" rel="nofollow">Report</a></li> <li class="permalink"><a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20120516042436/http://www.economist.com/comment/1412923#comment-1412923" title="Permanent link to this comment" rel="nofollow" class=" secondary-action">Permalink</a></li> <li class="comment_reply last"><a href="/web/20120516042436/http://www.economist.com/comment/reply/21554449/1412923" data-form-ajax="/ajax/comment/reply/21554449/1412923">reply</a></li> </ul> </footer> </article> </section> </article> <article id="comment-1410095" class="single-comment"> <header> <div> <a href="/web/20120516042436/http://www.economist.com/user/2980669/comments" title="View mvymvy's profile">mvymvy</a> <time class="created" title="2012-05-10T18:44:51+00:00">May 10th 2012 18:44 GMT</time> </div> </header> <div class="comment-body"><p>Overall support for a national popular vote in states ranges from 68% to 81%. </p> <p>In state polls of voters, with</p> <p>Question 1: "How do you think we should elect the President: Should it be the candidate who gets the most votes in all 50 states, or the current Electoral College system?"</p> <p>and a second question</p> <p>Question 2: "Do you think it more important that a state's electoral votes be cast for the presidential candidate who receives the most popular votes in that state, or is it more important to guarantee that the candidate who receives the most popular votes in all 50 states becomes president?"</p> <p>there was only a 4-8% decrease of support.</p> <p>South Dakota -- 75% for Question 1, 67% for Question 2.<br/> Connecticut -- 74% for Question 1, 68% for Question 2.<br/> Utah -- 70% for Question 1, 66% for Question 2.</p> <p>NationalPopularVote</p> </div> <footer class="clearfix"> <ul class="links"><li class="comment_recommend first"><a href="/web/20120516042436/http://www.economist.com/vote/recommend-comment/1410095?token=7eb0c7364a25c4ff453c66350c3e5512&nid=21554449&page=0&sort=0" title="Recommend comment: Overall support for a" class="recommend" data-ec-omniture="recommend_comment" rel="nofollow">Recommend</a> <div><span>16</span></div></li> <li class="comment_report_abuse"><a href="/web/20120516042436/http://www.economist.com/report-abuse/comment/21554449/1410095?destination=node%2F21554449" title="Report this comment to our moderators" class="report-anchor secondary-action" data-form-ajax="/ajax/report-abuse/comment/21554449/1410095" rel="nofollow">Report</a></li> <li class="permalink"><a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20120516042436/http://www.economist.com/comment/1410095#comment-1410095" title="Permanent link to this comment" rel="nofollow" class=" secondary-action">Permalink</a></li> <li class="comment_reply last"><a href="/web/20120516042436/http://www.economist.com/comment/reply/21554449/1410095" data-form-ajax="/ajax/comment/reply/21554449/1410095">reply</a></li> </ul> </footer> </article> <article id="comment-1409631" class="single-comment"> <header> <div> <a href="/web/20120516042436/http://www.economist.com/users/michael-dunne/comments" title="View Michael Dunne's profile">Michael Dunne</a> <time class="created" title="2012-05-10T15:34:31+00:00">May 10th 2012 15:34 GMT</time> </div> </header> <div class="comment-body"><p>Maybe proportional representation on a state by state basis would work in determining allocation of votes? Provide a more effective medium between the current system and treating the whole country as one big electoral district?</p> <p>Now the congressional district method used by Maine and Nebraska sounds interesting. This is how it is described on the Fair Vote site:</p> <p>"Since electors are awarded to each state based on the number of House seats plus the number of Senate seats (always two), the congressional district method allocated one electoral vote to each congressional district. The winner of each district is awarded one electoral vote, and the winner of the state-wide vote is then awarded the state's remaining two electoral votes."</p> <p>The one, big worry would be gerrymandering of congressional districts in big states....</p> <p>Maybe have proportional representation based on state-wide votes, with rules on rounding to address multiple candidates and/or states with few electors?</p> </div> <footer class="clearfix"> <ul class="links"><li class="comment_recommend first"><a href="/web/20120516042436/http://www.economist.com/vote/recommend-comment/1409631?token=6b6f1207d1020689fb02e87b4c06107f&nid=21554449&page=0&sort=0" title="Recommend comment: Maybe proportional" class="recommend" data-ec-omniture="recommend_comment" rel="nofollow">Recommend</a> <div><span>10</span></div></li> <li class="comment_report_abuse"><a href="/web/20120516042436/http://www.economist.com/report-abuse/comment/21554449/1409631?destination=node%2F21554449" title="Report this comment to our moderators" class="report-anchor secondary-action" data-form-ajax="/ajax/report-abuse/comment/21554449/1409631" rel="nofollow">Report</a></li> <li class="permalink"><a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20120516042436/http://www.economist.com/comment/1409631#comment-1409631" title="Permanent link to this comment" rel="nofollow" class=" secondary-action">Permalink</a></li> <li class="comment_reply last"><a href="/web/20120516042436/http://www.economist.com/comment/reply/21554449/1409631" data-form-ajax="/ajax/comment/reply/21554449/1409631">reply</a></li> </ul> </footer> <section class="indented"> <article id="comment-1409949" class="single-comment"> <header> <div> <a href="/web/20120516042436/http://www.economist.com/user/2980669/comments" title="View mvymvy's profile">mvymvy</a> <a href="/web/20120516042436/http://www.economist.com/comment/1409631#comment-1409631" class="reply-to">in reply to Michael Dunne</a> <time class="created" title="2012-05-10T17:50:33+00:00">May 10th 2012 17:50 GMT</time> </div> </header> <div class="comment-body"><p>An analysis of the whole number proportional plan and congressional district systems of awarding electoral votes, evaluated the systems "on the basis of whether they promote majority rule, make elections more nationally competitive, reduce incentives for partisan machinations, and make all votes count equally. . . .</p> <p>Awarding electoral votes by a proportional or congressional district method fails to promote majority rule, greater competitiveness or voter equality. Pursued at a state level, both reforms dramatically increase incentives for partisan machinations. If done nationally, the congressional district system has a sharp partisan tilt toward the Republican Party, while the whole number proportional system sharply increases the odds of no candidate getting the majority of electoral votes needed, leading to the selection of the president by the U.S. House of Representatives.</p> <p>For states seeking to exercise their responsibility under the U.S. Constitution to choose a method of allocating electoral votes that best serves their state’s interest and that of the national interest, both alternatives fall far short of the National Popular Vote plan, a third reform option which is under consideration in a number of state."</p> <p><a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20120516042436/http://www.fairvote.org/fuzzy-math-wrong-way-reforms-for-allocating-electoral-college-votes" title="http://www.fairvote.org/fuzzy-math-wrong-way-reforms-for-allocating-electoral-college-votes" rel="nofollow">http://www.fairvote.org/fuzzy-math-wrong-way-reforms-for-allocating-elec...</a></p> </div> <footer class="clearfix"> <ul class="links"><li class="comment_recommend first"><a href="/web/20120516042436/http://www.economist.com/vote/recommend-comment/1409949?token=44aa97f10b000615d5fdfa6fa639edd5&nid=21554449&page=0&sort=0" title="Recommend comment: An analysis of the whole" class="recommend" data-ec-omniture="recommend_comment" rel="nofollow">Recommend</a> <div><span>11</span></div></li> <li class="comment_report_abuse"><a href="/web/20120516042436/http://www.economist.com/report-abuse/comment/21554449/1409949?destination=node%2F21554449" title="Report this comment to our moderators" class="report-anchor secondary-action" data-form-ajax="/ajax/report-abuse/comment/21554449/1409949" rel="nofollow">Report</a></li> <li class="permalink"><a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20120516042436/http://www.economist.com/comment/1409949#comment-1409949" title="Permanent link to this comment" rel="nofollow" class=" secondary-action">Permalink</a></li> <li class="comment_reply last"><a href="/web/20120516042436/http://www.economist.com/comment/reply/21554449/1409949" data-form-ajax="/ajax/comment/reply/21554449/1409949">reply</a></li> </ul> </footer> </article> </section> </article> <article id="comment-1409514" class="single-comment"> <header> <div> <a href="/web/20120516042436/http://www.economist.com/users/legatuswashington/comments" title="View LegatusWashington's profile">LegatusWashington</a> <time class="created" title="2012-05-10T14:26:02+00:00">May 10th 2012 14:26 GMT</time> </div> </header> <div class="comment-body"><p>If it ain't broke, don't fix it.</p> <p>The good ol' US of A is still the best country in the world. We don't need to start changing things just because they seem strange to the foreigners.</p> </div> <footer class="clearfix"> <ul class="links"><li class="comment_recommend first"><a href="/web/20120516042436/http://www.economist.com/vote/recommend-comment/1409514?token=8846c3c8043ac1251b1affe49e4fad5d&nid=21554449&page=0&sort=0" title="Recommend comment: If it ain't broke, don't fix" class="recommend" data-ec-omniture="recommend_comment" rel="nofollow">Recommend</a> <div><span>9</span></div></li> <li class="comment_report_abuse"><a href="/web/20120516042436/http://www.economist.com/report-abuse/comment/21554449/1409514?destination=node%2F21554449" title="Report this comment to our moderators" class="report-anchor secondary-action" data-form-ajax="/ajax/report-abuse/comment/21554449/1409514" rel="nofollow">Report</a></li> <li class="permalink"><a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20120516042436/http://www.economist.com/comment/1409514#comment-1409514" title="Permanent link to this comment" rel="nofollow" class=" secondary-action">Permalink</a></li> <li class="comment_reply last"><a href="/web/20120516042436/http://www.economist.com/comment/reply/21554449/1409514" data-form-ajax="/ajax/comment/reply/21554449/1409514">reply</a></li> </ul> </footer> <section class="indented"> <article id="comment-1409915" class="single-comment"> <header> <div> <a href="/web/20120516042436/http://www.economist.com/users/steedley/comments" title="View A Steedley's profile">A Steedley</a> <a href="/web/20120516042436/http://www.economist.com/comment/1409514#comment-1409514" class="reply-to">in reply to LegatusWashington</a> <time class="created" title="2012-05-10T17:31:33+00:00">May 10th 2012 17:31 GMT</time> </div> </header> <div class="comment-body"><p>From those of us expats actually living overseas, its clear to the rest of the world that the US is not the best country in the world on many dimensions, and the sooner we dissuade ourselves of that illusion, the better off we will be, much less the rest of the world who unfortunately too often bears the brunt of our disillusion. And its not a matter of what seems strange to foreigners, its what seems strange within a country where 80% of the population live in cities, still contorting its will to an anachronistic system that equates the 500 000 people that live in Wyoming to the 12 million that live New York City. </p> <p>The world itself is urbanizing, immigrating, educating and investing itself to strength, and surpassing the US in many, many ways - economic growth rates (we rank among the lowest), health outcomes (among the worst), poverty and GINI indexes (the worst), graduation rates and test scores (the worse decline), incarceration rates (world's highest) and drug addiction rates (among the world's highest), defense spending (world's highest), and per-capita education spending (among the world's lowest). What part of the US in that respect is NOT broken?? What are we winning? A more representative electoral system might reflect a better sense of equity and fairness, and a more optimistic, nuanced and inclusive future.</p> </div> <footer class="clearfix"> <ul class="links"><li class="comment_recommend first"><a href="/web/20120516042436/http://www.economist.com/vote/recommend-comment/1409915?token=0e4517f0a6de739d80f8b92491e421e8&nid=21554449&page=0&sort=0" title="Recommend comment: From those of us expats" class="recommend" data-ec-omniture="recommend_comment" rel="nofollow">Recommend</a> <div><span>23</span></div></li> <li class="comment_report_abuse"><a href="/web/20120516042436/http://www.economist.com/report-abuse/comment/21554449/1409915?destination=node%2F21554449" title="Report this comment to our moderators" class="report-anchor secondary-action" data-form-ajax="/ajax/report-abuse/comment/21554449/1409915" rel="nofollow">Report</a></li> <li class="permalink"><a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20120516042436/http://www.economist.com/comment/1409915#comment-1409915" title="Permanent link to this comment" rel="nofollow" class=" secondary-action">Permalink</a></li> <li class="comment_reply last"><a href="/web/20120516042436/http://www.economist.com/comment/reply/21554449/1409915" data-form-ajax="/ajax/comment/reply/21554449/1409915">reply</a></li> </ul> </footer> </article> <article id="comment-1409950" class="single-comment"> <header> <div> <a href="/web/20120516042436/http://www.economist.com/users/terrestri/comments" title="View terrestri's profile">terrestri</a> <a href="/web/20120516042436/http://www.economist.com/comment/1409915#comment-1409915" class="reply-to">in reply to A Steedley</a> <time class="created" title="2012-05-10T17:50:51+00:00">May 10th 2012 17:50 GMT</time> </div> </header> <div class="comment-body"><p>so one of you says keep the system because the USA is the best nation, and the other says scrap the system because the USA is behind?</p> <p>how about this: each state in the union has autonomy, and indeed many states entered the union as fully fledged nation-states. the system is deliberately designed to give smaller population states a disproportionate say in electing the president so that the majorities in say, New York, don't completely overwhelm the people's rights in Wyoming.</p> <p>Same goes for the Senate giving Wyoming and New York equal representation in the Senate; each state is equal in their relationship in the federal government - having more people doesn't automatically grant additional influence, except in the house, and this people-effect is dulled for the electoral college.</p> <p>This is the United States of America, and its worth saying that line carefully, pausing after each word, to feel the impact and intent of the meaning.</p> </div> <footer class="clearfix"> <ul class="links"><li class="comment_recommend first"><a href="/web/20120516042436/http://www.economist.com/vote/recommend-comment/1409950?token=8325699721894bed660ee2c112912f7d&nid=21554449&page=0&sort=0" title="Recommend comment: so one of you says keep the" class="recommend" data-ec-omniture="recommend_comment" rel="nofollow">Recommend</a> <div><span>14</span></div></li> <li class="comment_report_abuse"><a href="/web/20120516042436/http://www.economist.com/report-abuse/comment/21554449/1409950?destination=node%2F21554449" title="Report this comment to our moderators" class="report-anchor secondary-action" data-form-ajax="/ajax/report-abuse/comment/21554449/1409950" rel="nofollow">Report</a></li> <li class="permalink"><a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20120516042436/http://www.economist.com/comment/1409950#comment-1409950" title="Permanent link to this comment" rel="nofollow" class=" secondary-action">Permalink</a></li> <li class="comment_reply last"><a href="/web/20120516042436/http://www.economist.com/comment/reply/21554449/1409950" data-form-ajax="/ajax/comment/reply/21554449/1409950">reply</a></li> </ul> </footer> </article> <article id="comment-1409956" class="single-comment deep-reply"> <header> <div> <a href="/web/20120516042436/http://www.economist.com/user/2980669/comments" title="View mvymvy's profile">mvymvy</a> <a href="/web/20120516042436/http://www.economist.com/comment/1409915#comment-1409915" class="reply-to">in reply to A Steedley</a> <time class="created" title="2012-05-10T17:53:17+00:00">May 10th 2012 17:53 GMT</time> </div> </header> <div class="comment-body"><p>Most Americans don't care whether their presidential candidate wins or loses in their state. . . they care whether he/she wins the White House. Voters want to know, that even if they were on the losing side, their vote actually was directly and equally counted and mattered to their candidate. Most Americans think it's wrong for the candidate with the most popular votes to lose. We don't allow this in any other election in our representative republic.</p> <p>In Gallup polls since 1944, only about 20% of the public has supported the current system of awarding all of a state's electoral votes to the presidential candidate who receives the most votes in each separate state (with about 70% opposed and about 10% undecided). Support for a national popular vote is strong among Republicans, Democrats, and Independent voters, as well as every demographic group in virtually every state surveyed in recent polls in closely divided Battleground states: CO – 68%, FL – 78%, IA 75%, MI – 73%, MO – 70%, NH – 69%, NV – 72%, NM– 76%, NC – 74%, OH – 70%, PA – 78%, VA – 74%, and WI – 71%; in Small states (3 to 5 electoral votes): AK – 70%, DC – 76%, DE – 75%, ID – 77%, ME – 77%, MT – 72%, NE 74%, NH – 69%, NV – 72%, NM – 76%, OK – 81%, RI – 74%, SD – 71%, UT – 70%, VT – 75%, WV – 81%, and WY – 69%; in Southern and Border states: AR – 80%,, KY- 80%, MS – 77%, MO – 70%, NC – 74%, OK – 81%, SC – 71%, TN – 83%, VA – 74%, and WV – 81%; and in other states polled: AZ – 67%, CA – 70%, CT – 74%, MA – 73%, MN – 75%, NY – 79%, OR – 76%, and WA – 77%. </p> <p>NationalPopularVote</p> </div> <footer class="clearfix"> <ul class="links"><li class="comment_recommend first"><a href="/web/20120516042436/http://www.economist.com/vote/recommend-comment/1409956?token=30f5c2c98c21d2f9719f089d87ea2887&nid=21554449&page=0&sort=0" title="Recommend comment: Most Americans don't care" class="recommend" data-ec-omniture="recommend_comment" rel="nofollow">Recommend</a> <div><span>13</span></div></li> <li class="comment_report_abuse"><a href="/web/20120516042436/http://www.economist.com/report-abuse/comment/21554449/1409956?destination=node%2F21554449" title="Report this comment to our moderators" class="report-anchor secondary-action" data-form-ajax="/ajax/report-abuse/comment/21554449/1409956" rel="nofollow">Report</a></li> <li class="permalink"><a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20120516042436/http://www.economist.com/comment/1409956#comment-1409956" title="Permanent link to this comment" rel="nofollow" class=" secondary-action">Permalink</a></li> <li class="comment_reply last"><a href="/web/20120516042436/http://www.economist.com/comment/reply/21554449/1409956" data-form-ajax="/ajax/comment/reply/21554449/1409956">reply</a></li> </ul> </footer> </article> <article id="comment-1411083" class="single-comment deep-reply"> <header> <div> <a href="/web/20120516042436/http://www.economist.com/users/legatuswashington/comments" title="View LegatusWashington's profile">LegatusWashington</a> <a href="/web/20120516042436/http://www.economist.com/comment/1409915#comment-1409915" class="reply-to">in reply to A Steedley</a> <time class="created" title="2012-05-11T03:04:43+00:00">May 11th 2012 3:04 GMT</time> </div> </header> <div class="comment-body"><p>I'm no expat, but I know the world is a lot bigger than the USA and Europe. We've got untold millions of people starving and dying of diseases in Africa and India. Muslims blowing each other up in the Middle East. People working like slaves under tyrants in China. And the Latin America is a violent land of drug cartels and corrupt cops. </p> <p>The only place that even comes close is Europe: the land of over educated, disarmed, socialists. I'm sure those countries are great in many ways, but how many of them are still using the same constitution now that they were 200 years ago? Zero. And the reason why the can afoord all of their fancy socialist policies is because they can rely on the USA to protect them. That's a good thing for everyone because they already started two world wars in the past 100 hundred years and we shouldn't trust them with the equipment to start another one.</p> </div> <footer class="clearfix"> <ul class="links"><li class="comment_recommend first"><a href="/web/20120516042436/http://www.economist.com/vote/recommend-comment/1411083?token=263f115b804972512b8cf1196d384b1d&nid=21554449&page=0&sort=0" title="Recommend comment: I'm no expat, but I know the" class="recommend" data-ec-omniture="recommend_comment" rel="nofollow">Recommend</a> <div><span>10</span></div></li> <li class="comment_report_abuse"><a href="/web/20120516042436/http://www.economist.com/report-abuse/comment/21554449/1411083?destination=node%2F21554449" title="Report this comment to our moderators" class="report-anchor secondary-action" data-form-ajax="/ajax/report-abuse/comment/21554449/1411083" rel="nofollow">Report</a></li> <li class="permalink"><a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20120516042436/http://www.economist.com/comment/1411083#comment-1411083" title="Permanent link to this comment" rel="nofollow" class=" secondary-action">Permalink</a></li> <li class="comment_reply last"><a href="/web/20120516042436/http://www.economist.com/comment/reply/21554449/1411083" data-form-ajax="/ajax/comment/reply/21554449/1411083">reply</a></li> </ul> </footer> </article> <article id="comment-1411914" class="single-comment deep-reply"> <header> <div> <a href="/web/20120516042436/http://www.economist.com/users/cranman67/comments" title="View Cranman67's profile">Cranman67</a> <a href="/web/20120516042436/http://www.economist.com/comment/1411083#comment-1411083" class="reply-to">in reply to LegatusWashington</a> <time class="created" title="2012-05-11T14:22:42+00:00">May 11th 2012 14:22 GMT</time> </div> </header> <div class="comment-body"><p>Have you ever visited Canada? Much closer (in both lifestyle and distance) than Europe.</p> </div> <footer class="clearfix"> <ul class="links"><li class="comment_recommend first"><a href="/web/20120516042436/http://www.economist.com/vote/recommend-comment/1411914?token=c95431182586c46f901b4cb98ba35721&nid=21554449&page=0&sort=0" title="Recommend comment: Have you ever visited Canada?" class="recommend" data-ec-omniture="recommend_comment" rel="nofollow">Recommend</a> <div><span>8</span></div></li> <li class="comment_report_abuse"><a href="/web/20120516042436/http://www.economist.com/report-abuse/comment/21554449/1411914?destination=node%2F21554449" title="Report this comment to our moderators" class="report-anchor secondary-action" data-form-ajax="/ajax/report-abuse/comment/21554449/1411914" rel="nofollow">Report</a></li> <li class="permalink"><a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20120516042436/http://www.economist.com/comment/1411914#comment-1411914" title="Permanent link to this comment" rel="nofollow" class=" secondary-action">Permalink</a></li> <li class="comment_reply last"><a href="/web/20120516042436/http://www.economist.com/comment/reply/21554449/1411914" data-form-ajax="/ajax/comment/reply/21554449/1411914">reply</a></li> </ul> </footer> </article> <article id="comment-1412114" class="single-comment deep-reply"> <header> <div> <a href="/web/20120516042436/http://www.economist.com/users/legatuswashington/comments" title="View LegatusWashington's profile">LegatusWashington</a> <a href="/web/20120516042436/http://www.economist.com/comment/1411914#comment-1411914" class="reply-to">in reply to Cranman67</a> <time class="created" title="2012-05-11T16:10:38+00:00">May 11th 2012 16:10 GMT</time> </div> </header> <div class="comment-body"><p>No, I've never been to the Maple Leaf state; despite leaving in Illinois for most of my life. But the fact that Canada is the Maple Leaf state basically says it all. I'm sure that Canada is basically the same as the USA, but still; where do the ambitious Canadians move to when they want jobs in Hollywood or anywhere else?</p> </div> <footer class="clearfix"> <ul class="links"><li class="comment_recommend first"><a href="/web/20120516042436/http://www.economist.com/vote/recommend-comment/1412114?token=0424cd172a6baff5cc7f234e95243da8&nid=21554449&page=0&sort=0" title="Recommend comment: No, I've never been to the" class="recommend" data-ec-omniture="recommend_comment" rel="nofollow">Recommend</a> <div><span>8</span></div></li> <li class="comment_report_abuse"><a href="/web/20120516042436/http://www.economist.com/report-abuse/comment/21554449/1412114?destination=node%2F21554449" title="Report this comment to our moderators" class="report-anchor secondary-action" data-form-ajax="/ajax/report-abuse/comment/21554449/1412114" rel="nofollow">Report</a></li> <li class="permalink"><a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20120516042436/http://www.economist.com/comment/1412114#comment-1412114" title="Permanent link to this comment" rel="nofollow" class=" secondary-action">Permalink</a></li> <li class="comment_reply last"><a href="/web/20120516042436/http://www.economist.com/comment/reply/21554449/1412114" data-form-ajax="/ajax/comment/reply/21554449/1412114">reply</a></li> </ul> </footer> </article> <article id="comment-1412140" class="single-comment deep-reply"> <header> <div> <a href="/web/20120516042436/http://www.economist.com/users/cranman67/comments" title="View Cranman67's profile">Cranman67</a> <a href="/web/20120516042436/http://www.economist.com/comment/1412114#comment-1412114" class="reply-to">in reply to LegatusWashington</a> <time class="created" title="2012-05-11T16:20:59+00:00">May 11th 2012 16:20 GMT</time> </div> </header> <div class="comment-body"><p>To answer your question I would say Alberta. Although I agree that Canadians are probably disproportionately over represented in the US entertainment industry. That being due mostly to our growing up watching it on cable TV.</p> <p>I think the USA is a great country. I know that is why many would like to move there from all over the world. I think its just the unfortunate stereotypical "in your face" bragging about it that puts most foreigners off a bit.</p> </div> <footer class="clearfix"> <ul class="links"><li class="comment_recommend first"><a href="/web/20120516042436/http://www.economist.com/vote/recommend-comment/1412140?token=624a26e3a9ed33f54659c2cde440b269&nid=21554449&page=0&sort=0" title="Recommend comment: To answer your question I" class="recommend" data-ec-omniture="recommend_comment" rel="nofollow">Recommend</a> <div><span>8</span></div></li> <li class="comment_report_abuse"><a href="/web/20120516042436/http://www.economist.com/report-abuse/comment/21554449/1412140?destination=node%2F21554449" title="Report this comment to our moderators" class="report-anchor secondary-action" data-form-ajax="/ajax/report-abuse/comment/21554449/1412140" rel="nofollow">Report</a></li> <li class="permalink"><a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20120516042436/http://www.economist.com/comment/1412140#comment-1412140" 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blind funding of Israel,Egypt,Pakistan and other toxic allies ,arms industry,tax breaks for the rich and a Supreme court able to choose presidents as in 2001,rather tha a second democratic poll.<br/> Sadly it is factors like this that allow fascistic totalitarian murderers in China ,Iran,Syria etc an excuse to take the high moral ground.The life expectancy of African- Americans is the best measure of the sad decline of a once great nation,raped by shameless bankers and their republican and democrat apologists.<br/> There is a health insurance industry that leeches on the sick like vampires.For all its faults Europeans can have sick children without dieing from stress so can Thais, Canadians even Cubans .<br/> No wonder the electoral college is irrelevant while it is awhore to vested interests.</p> </div> <footer class="clearfix"> <ul class="links"><li class="comment_recommend first"><a href="/web/20120516042436/http://www.economist.com/vote/recommend-comment/1409028?token=b3bc61589f8c6ba6b316010713b6ad42&nid=21554449&page=0&sort=0" title="Recommend comment: If voting changed power it" class="recommend" data-ec-omniture="recommend_comment" rel="nofollow">Recommend</a> <div><span>14</span></div></li> <li class="comment_report_abuse"><a href="/web/20120516042436/http://www.economist.com/report-abuse/comment/21554449/1409028?destination=node%2F21554449" title="Report this comment to our moderators" class="report-anchor secondary-action" data-form-ajax="/ajax/report-abuse/comment/21554449/1409028" rel="nofollow">Report</a></li> <li class="permalink"><a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20120516042436/http://www.economist.com/comment/1409028#comment-1409028" title="Permanent link to this comment" rel="nofollow" class=" secondary-action">Permalink</a></li> <li class="comment_reply last"><a href="/web/20120516042436/http://www.economist.com/comment/reply/21554449/1409028" data-form-ajax="/ajax/comment/reply/21554449/1409028">reply</a></li> </ul> </footer> </article> <article id="comment-1408891" class="single-comment"> <header> <div> <a href="/web/20120516042436/http://www.economist.com/users/creativemind/comments" title="View creativemind's profile">creativemind</a> <time class="created" title="2012-05-10T05:43:02+00:00">May 10th 2012 5:43 GMT</time> </div> </header> <div class="comment-body"><p>The Electoral College system was probably introduced for various reasons which have lost importance now.America should get rid of this system so that Americans can elect a president by popular votes in order to avoid election of a person like G W Bush Jr.Bush was neither elected by popular votes or by the Electoral College.He was elected by the Supreme Court of America dominated by the Justices appointed by the Republican Presidents!!</p> </div> <footer class="clearfix"> <ul class="links"><li class="comment_recommend first"><a 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data-form-ajax="/ajax/comment/reply/21554449/1408891">reply</a></li> </ul> </footer> </article> <article id="comment-1408886" class="single-comment"> <header> <div> <a href="/web/20120516042436/http://www.economist.com/users/guest-ilamowl/comments" title="View guest-ilamowl's profile">guest-ilamowl</a> <time class="created" title="2012-05-10T05:36:13+00:00">May 10th 2012 5:36 GMT</time> </div> </header> <div class="comment-body"><p>so there is not Democracy in US.Time to change old system.Why dont we take some experience from Europe?<br/> the difference between US system and European is:Euro politicians are for the people,US system; people are for politicians.</p> </div> <footer class="clearfix"> <ul class="links"><li class="comment_recommend first"><a href="/web/20120516042436/http://www.economist.com/vote/recommend-comment/1408886?token=b45f4903d8f792fd3f53a83a704d84ce&nid=21554449&page=0&sort=0" title="Recommend comment: so there is not Democracy in" class="recommend" data-ec-omniture="recommend_comment" rel="nofollow">Recommend</a> <div><span>13</span></div></li> <li class="comment_report_abuse"><a href="/web/20120516042436/http://www.economist.com/report-abuse/comment/21554449/1408886?destination=node%2F21554449" title="Report this comment to our moderators" class="report-anchor secondary-action" data-form-ajax="/ajax/report-abuse/comment/21554449/1408886" rel="nofollow">Report</a></li> <li class="permalink"><a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20120516042436/http://www.economist.com/comment/1408886#comment-1408886" title="Permanent link to this comment" rel="nofollow" class=" secondary-action">Permalink</a></li> <li class="comment_reply last"><a href="/web/20120516042436/http://www.economist.com/comment/reply/21554449/1408886" data-form-ajax="/ajax/comment/reply/21554449/1408886">reply</a></li> </ul> </footer> <section class="indented"> <article id="comment-1409124" class="single-comment"> <header> <div> <a href="/web/20120516042436/http://www.economist.com/users/urasawa/comments" title="View Urasawa's profile">Urasawa</a> <a href="/web/20120516042436/http://www.economist.com/comment/1408886#comment-1408886" class="reply-to">in reply to guest-ilamowl</a> <time class="created" title="2012-05-10T09:11:03+00:00">May 10th 2012 9:11 GMT</time> </div> </header> <div class="comment-body"><p>Euro politicians are far from being for the people.</p> </div> <footer class="clearfix"> <ul class="links"><li class="comment_recommend first"><a href="/web/20120516042436/http://www.economist.com/vote/recommend-comment/1409124?token=72f1525fa2598f386e655eb023f7fb15&nid=21554449&page=0&sort=0" title="Recommend comment: Euro politicians are far from" class="recommend" data-ec-omniture="recommend_comment" rel="nofollow">Recommend</a> <div><span>12</span></div></li> <li class="comment_report_abuse"><a href="/web/20120516042436/http://www.economist.com/report-abuse/comment/21554449/1409124?destination=node%2F21554449" title="Report this comment to our moderators" class="report-anchor secondary-action" data-form-ajax="/ajax/report-abuse/comment/21554449/1409124" rel="nofollow">Report</a></li> <li class="permalink"><a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20120516042436/http://www.economist.com/comment/1409124#comment-1409124" title="Permanent link to this comment" rel="nofollow" class=" secondary-action">Permalink</a></li> <li class="comment_reply last"><a href="/web/20120516042436/http://www.economist.com/comment/reply/21554449/1409124" data-form-ajax="/ajax/comment/reply/21554449/1409124">reply</a></li> </ul> </footer> </article> </section> </article> <article id="comment-1408635" class="single-comment"> <header> <div> <a href="/web/20120516042436/http://www.economist.com/user/3158746/comments" title="View SmarTony's profile">SmarTony</a> <time class="created" title="2012-05-10T01:55:50+00:00">May 10th 2012 1:55 GMT</time> </div> </header> <div class="comment-body"><p>This stupid narrator has its stupid voice disappear at the end of each sentence</p> </div> <footer class="clearfix"> <ul class="links"><li class="comment_recommend first"><a href="/web/20120516042436/http://www.economist.com/vote/recommend-comment/1408635?token=103395adf151c401d023b9a7ce314e48&nid=21554449&page=0&sort=0" title="Recommend comment: This stupid narrator has its" class="recommend" data-ec-omniture="recommend_comment" rel="nofollow">Recommend</a> <div><span>15</span></div></li> <li class="comment_report_abuse"><a href="/web/20120516042436/http://www.economist.com/report-abuse/comment/21554449/1408635?destination=node%2F21554449" title="Report this comment to our moderators" class="report-anchor secondary-action" data-form-ajax="/ajax/report-abuse/comment/21554449/1408635" rel="nofollow">Report</a></li> <li class="permalink"><a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20120516042436/http://www.economist.com/comment/1408635#comment-1408635" title="Permanent link to this comment" rel="nofollow" class=" secondary-action">Permalink</a></li> <li class="comment_reply last"><a href="/web/20120516042436/http://www.economist.com/comment/reply/21554449/1408635" data-form-ajax="/ajax/comment/reply/21554449/1408635">reply</a></li> </ul> </footer> <section class="indented"> <article id="comment-1409200" class="single-comment"> <header> <div> <a href="/web/20120516042436/http://www.economist.com/users/martin5000/comments" title="View Martin5000's profile">Martin5000</a> <a href="/web/20120516042436/http://www.economist.com/comment/1408635#comment-1408635" class="reply-to">in reply to SmarTony</a> <time class="created" title="2012-05-10T10:39:44+00:00">May 10th 2012 10:39 GMT</time> </div> </header> <div class="comment-body"><p>Ironically you didn't finish your sentence properly (with a full stop). The narration is clear and efficient.</p> </div> <footer class="clearfix"> <ul class="links"><li class="comment_recommend first"><a href="/web/20120516042436/http://www.economist.com/vote/recommend-comment/1409200?token=af666178026dbfcbb1f970df51e1c56f&nid=21554449&page=0&sort=0" title="Recommend comment: Ironically you didn't finish" class="recommend" data-ec-omniture="recommend_comment" rel="nofollow">Recommend</a> <div><span>17</span></div></li> <li class="comment_report_abuse"><a href="/web/20120516042436/http://www.economist.com/report-abuse/comment/21554449/1409200?destination=node%2F21554449" title="Report this comment to our moderators" class="report-anchor secondary-action" data-form-ajax="/ajax/report-abuse/comment/21554449/1409200" rel="nofollow">Report</a></li> <li class="permalink"><a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20120516042436/http://www.economist.com/comment/1409200#comment-1409200" title="Permanent link to this comment" rel="nofollow" class=" secondary-action">Permalink</a></li> <li class="comment_reply last"><a href="/web/20120516042436/http://www.economist.com/comment/reply/21554449/1409200" data-form-ajax="/ajax/comment/reply/21554449/1409200">reply</a></li> </ul> </footer> </article> </section> </article> <div class="pager clearfix"><div class="item-list"><ul class="pager"><li class="pager-current first">1</li> <li class="pager-item even"><a href="/web/20120516042436/http://www.economist.com/blogs/graphicdetail/2012/05/daily-chart-5?page=1#sort-comments" title="Go to page 2" class="active">2</a></li> <li class="pager-item"><a href="/web/20120516042436/http://www.economist.com/blogs/graphicdetail/2012/05/daily-chart-5?page=2#sort-comments" title="Go to page 3" class="active">3</a></li> <li class="pager-next even"><a href="/web/20120516042436/http://www.economist.com/blogs/graphicdetail/2012/05/daily-chart-5?page=1#sort-comments" title="Go to next page" class="active">next ›</a></li> <li class="pager-last last"><a href="/web/20120516042436/http://www.economist.com/blogs/graphicdetail/2012/05/daily-chart-5?page=2#sort-comments" title="Go to last page" class="active">last »</a></li> </ul></div></div> </section> </div> <!-- /#column-content --> <div id="column-right" class="grid-6 clearfix"> <div id="block-ec_components-page_tools_compact" class="block block-ec_components"> <div class="content clearfix"> <ul class="ec-page-tools ec-pt-compact clearfix"><li class="pt-comment first"><a href="/web/20120516042436/http://www.economist.com/blogs/graphicdetail/2012/05/daily-chart-5#comments" class="view-comments active" data-ec-omniture="go_to_comments">Comment (161)</a></li> <li class="pt-print even"><a href="/web/20120516042436/http://www.economist.com/blogs/graphicdetail/2012/05/daily-chart-5/print" rel="nofollow" title="Printer friendly version" data-ec-omniture="print_content">Print</a></li> <li class="pt-email"><a href="/web/20120516042436/http://www.economist.com/blogs/graphicdetail/2012/05/daily-chart-5/email" rel="nofollow" title="E-mail this to a friend">E-mail</a></li> <li class="pt-permalink even" data-ec-omniture="permalink"><a href="/web/20120516042436/http://www.economist.com/node/21554449" rel="nofollow" class="active">Permalink</a></li> <li class="pt-randr"><a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20120516042436/http://s100.copyright.com/AppDispatchServlet?publisherName=economist&publication=economist&title=How%20America%20really%20chooses%20its%20president&publicationDate=20120509&contentID=21554449&type=BL&orderBeanReset=0&srTitle=" data-ec-omniture="reprints_permissions">Reprints & permissions</a></li> <li class="even last"></li> </ul> </div> </div><div id="block-ec_blogs-ec_blogs_block_bloginfo" class="block block-ec_blogs"> <div class="content clearfix"> <div class="title"> About Graphic detail</div> <div class="about"><p>On this blog we publish a new chart or map every working day, highlight our interactive-data features and provide links to interesting sources of data around the web. 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