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href="https://www.reddit.com/submit?url=https%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FWikipedia%3AWikipedia_Signpost%2F2024-11-18%2FIn_the_media&title=Summons+issued+for+Wikipedia+editors+by+Indian+court%2C+%22Gaza+genocide%22+RfC+close+in+news%2C+old+admin+Gwern+now+big+AI+guy%2C+and+a+%22spectrum+of+reluctance%22+over+Australian+place+names">Reddit</a></li></ul> </div></div></div><span id="signpost-article-authors" class="signpost-author">By <a href="/wiki/User:Bri" title="User:Bri">Bri</a>, <a href="/wiki/User:Smallbones" title="User:Smallbones">Smallbones</a>, and <a href="/wiki/User:HaeB" title="User:HaeB">Tilman Bayer</a></span></div></div><div class="hidden-piccyembed" style="display:none;"><span typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:NSRW_Map_of_Australia_(cropped).png" class="mw-file-description"><img src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/8d/NSRW_Map_of_Australia_%28cropped%29.png/1px-NSRW_Map_of_Australia_%28cropped%29.png" decoding="async" width="1" height="1" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/8d/NSRW_Map_of_Australia_%28cropped%29.png/2px-NSRW_Map_of_Australia_%28cropped%29.png 1.5x" data-file-width="289" data-file-height="289"/></a></span></div><div class="signpost-article" style="padding: 0 2vw; max-width:80em; margin: 0 auto;"> <style data-mw-deduplicate="TemplateStyles:r1248129851">.mw-parser-output .wp-signpost-block-2{line-height:1.6em}.mw-parser-output .wp-signpost-block-2-full{font-size:1em;font-family:sans-serif,"Helvetica Neue",Helvetica,Arial}.mw-parser-output .wp-signpost-block-2-narrow{max-width:46em}@media(min-width:720px){.mw-parser-output .wp-signpost-block-2{padding-left:2vw}}</style><div class="wp-signpost-block-2 wp-signpost-block-2-narrow"> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading3"><h3 id="Asian_News_International_case_against_Wikimedia_and_Wikipedia_editors" data-mw-thread-id="h-Asian_News_International_case_against_Wikimedia_and_Wikipedia_editors-signpost-article-title"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Asian_News_International_case_against_Wikimedia_and_Wikipedia_editors-signpost-article-title"></span>Asian News International case against Wikimedia and Wikipedia editors<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Asian_News_International_case_against_Wikimedia_and_Wikipedia_editors-signpost-article-title"></span></h3></div> <dl><dd>Background: <a href="/wiki/Asian_News_International_vs._Wikimedia_Foundation" title="Asian News International vs. Wikimedia Foundation">Asian News International vs. Wikimedia Foundation</a> <i>blanked by court order</i>, <a href="/wiki/Litigation_involving_the_Wikimedia_Foundation" title="Litigation involving the Wikimedia Foundation">Litigation involving the Wikimedia Foundation</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/2024-11-06/News_and_notes" title="Wikipedia:Wikipedia Signpost/2024-11-06/News and notes">prior <i>Signpost</i> coverage</a></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading4"><h4 id="Summons_issued_for_Wikipedia_editors_in_ANI_case" data-mw-thread-id="h-Summons_issued_for_Wikipedia_editors_in_ANI_case-Asian_News_International_case_against_Wikimedia_and_Wikipedia_editors"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Summons_issued_for_Wikipedia_editors_in_ANI_case-Asian_News_International_case_against_Wikimedia_and_Wikipedia_editors"></span>Summons issued for Wikipedia editors in ANI case<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Summons_issued_for_Wikipedia_editors_in_ANI_case-Asian_News_International_case_against_Wikimedia_and_Wikipedia_editors"></span></h4></div> <p>Commentary and facts involving the case were published by <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://www.barandbench.com/news/delhi-high-court-issues-summons-wikipedia-users-ani-defamation-suit"><i>Bar and Bench</i></a>, <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://indialegallive.com/constitutional-law-news/courts-news/delhi-high-court-issues-summons-to-users-accused-of-adding-defamatory-statements-about-ani-on-wikipedia-page/">India Legal Live (ENC Network)</a>, <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://www.thehindu.com/news/national/delhi-hc-issues-summons-to-wikipedia-users-who-edited-ani-page/article68868247.ece"><i>The Hindu</i></a>, and <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://www.hindustantimes.com/india-news/court-summons-wiki-users-who-edited-ani-page-101731609939639.html"><i>Hindustan Times</i></a>. At least one source said that according to a summons issued by Delhi High Court, WMF had released or will release email addresses of three editors, "Defendants 2–4". </p><p>According to <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://www.medianama.com/2024/11/223-wikipedia-to-issue-summons-editors-on-behalf-ani-delhi-hc/">MediaNama</a>, one of the defendants signed the on-wiki open letter protesting the case (see <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/2024-11-18/News_and_notes#Open_letter" title="Wikipedia:Wikipedia Signpost/2024-11-18/News and notes">related <i>Signpost</i> coverage</a>). – <span style="font-size:85%;"><a href="/wiki/User:Bri" title="User:Bri">B</a></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading4"><h4 id="Should_Wikipedia_be_treated_like_a_publisher?" data-mw-thread-id="h-Should_Wikipedia_be_treated_like_a_publisher?-Asian_News_International_case_against_Wikimedia_and_Wikipedia_editors"><span id="Should_Wikipedia_be_treated_like_a_publisher.3F"></span><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Should_Wikipedia_be_treated_like_a_publisher?-Asian_News_International_case_against_Wikimedia_and_Wikipedia_editors"></span>Should Wikipedia be treated like a publisher?<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Should_Wikipedia_be_treated_like_a_publisher?-Asian_News_International_case_against_Wikimedia_and_Wikipedia_editors"></span></h4></div> <p>Aditi Agrawal covers the ANI case for <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://www.hindustantimes.com/india-news/why-should-wiki-not-be-treated-as-publishercentre-101730832662496.html"><i>Hindustan Times</i></a>. The question of Wikipedia's publisher-like status is also addressed in <i>India Today</i><span class="nowrap" style="padding-left:0.1em;">'</span>s Fiiber channel on MSN, <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://www.msn.com/en-in/money/news/why-has-the-indian-government-issued-a-notice-to-wikipedia-explained-in-5-points/ar-AA1tAKmD">"Why has the Indian government issued a notice to Wikipedia, explained in 5 points"</a>. – <span style="font-size:85%;"><a href="/wiki/User:Bri" title="User:Bri">B</a></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading3"><h3 id="Bias_complaint:_the_phantom_menace_/_MIB_is_MIA" data-mw-thread-id="h-Bias_complaint:_the_phantom_menace_/_MIB_is_MIA-signpost-article-title"><span id="Bias_complaint:_the_phantom_menace_.2F_MIB_is_MIA"></span><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Bias_complaint:_the_phantom_menace_/_MIB_is_MIA-signpost-article-title"></span>Bias complaint: the phantom menace / MIB is MIA<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Bias_complaint:_the_phantom_menace_/_MIB_is_MIA-signpost-article-title"></span></h3></div> <p>As we went to press on our last issue <a href="/wiki/Abplive" class="mw-redirect" title="Abplive">abplive</a> <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://news.abplive.com/technology/indian-government-writes-to-wikipedia-bias-inaccuracy-far-left-support-elon-musk-1729123">reported</a> that "According to <a href="/wiki/Asian_News_International" title="Asian News International">ANI</a>, the government has written to Wikipedia highlighting a number of complaints of bias and inaccuracy. In the letter, the Centre pointed out that a small group of people have editorial control over the website." The "Centre" refers to the central Indian government or specifically the <a href="/wiki/Ministry_of_Information_and_Broadcasting_(India)" title="Ministry of Information and Broadcasting (India)">Indian Ministry of Information and Broadcasting</a> (MIB). </p><p>The existence of this letter, or the timing of its issue, has itself been called into question. At <i>The Signpost</i>, we could not find a solid report to base a story on. </p><p>Some media just said there was "a notice" sent, another said unnamed government sources had spoken to one media outlet, and none we could find provided any real details (<a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://news.abplive.com/technology/indian-government-writes-to-wikipedia-bias-inaccuracy-far-left-support-elon-musk-1729123">example</a>, <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/government-puts-wikipedia-on-notice-after-complaints-of-bias-questions-small-group-having-editorial-control/articleshow/114968799.cms">example</a>). Since then, <a href="/wiki/TechCrunch" title="TechCrunch">TechCrunch</a> is also <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://techcrunch.com/2024/11/05/india-issues-notice-to-wikipedia-over-concerns-of-bias/">reporting</a> that no complaint has been found by their staff, either. – <span style="font-size:85%;"><a href="/wiki/User:Bri" title="User:Bri">B</a></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading3"><h3 id="RfC_closure_noted" data-mw-thread-id="h-RfC_closure_noted-signpost-article-title"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-RfC_closure_noted-signpost-article-title"></span>RfC closure noted<span data-mw-comment-end="h-RfC_closure_noted-signpost-article-title"></span></h3></div> <ul><li><a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2024-11-07/ty-article/.premium/wikipedia-editors-add-article-titled-gaza-genocide-to-list-of-genocides-page/00000193-0749-d3a2-a3d7-4f491b760000">"Wikipedia Editors Add Article Titled 'Gaza Genocide' to 'List of Genocides' Page"</a> (<i><a href="/wiki/Haaretz" title="Haaretz">Haaretz</a></i>)</li> <li><a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20241108-its-not-close-israel-committing-genocide-concludes-wikipedia-ending-editorial-debate/">"'It's not close' - Israel committing genocide concludes Wikipedia ending editorial debate"</a> (<i><a href="/wiki/Middle_East_Monitor" title="Middle East Monitor">Middle East Monitor</a></i>)</li></ul> <p><span class="plainlinks"><a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=&diff=prev&oldid=1243802876">This closure</a></span> of a more than month-long Request for comments (RfC) at <a href="/wiki/List_of_genocides" title="List of genocides">List of genocides</a> was noted in several press sources ... </p><p>The RfC confirming the page title follows a Requested move talkpage discussion which initially set the title earlier this year – see <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/2024-09-04/In_the_media#In_brief" title="Wikipedia:Wikipedia Signpost/2024-09-04/In the media">previous <i>Signpost</i> coverage</a>. – <span style="font-size:85%;"><a href="/wiki/User:Bri" title="User:Bri">B</a></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading3"><h3 id="Luckey_Gaetz_Wikipedia" data-mw-thread-id="h-Luckey_Gaetz_Wikipedia-signpost-article-title"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Luckey_Gaetz_Wikipedia-signpost-article-title"></span>Luckey Gaetz Wikipedia<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Luckey_Gaetz_Wikipedia-signpost-article-title"></span></h3></div> <p>There's a bizarre style of biography that commonly appears off-Wiki in the less-than-reliable press with headlines like <i>John Doe Wiki</i>. This week "GhanaCelebrities" provided the best example I've seen <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://www.ghanacelebrities.com/2024/11/14/ginger-luckey-gaetz-wiki-age-career-husband/">"Ginger Luckey Gaetz Wiki, Age, Career, Husband"</a>. The article is so well-written – it doesn't seem to have been authored with either artificial intelligence or natural stupidity – that if provided with references it would take at least a week to delete if it were posted on-Wiki. Luckey Gaetz's main claims to fame – if not notability – are that she has a <a href="/wiki/Palmer_Luckey" title="Palmer Luckey">rich brother</a> and is married to the former congressman and currently nominated <a href="/wiki/U.S._Attorney_General" class="mw-redirect" title="U.S. Attorney General">U.S. Attorney General</a> <a href="/wiki/Matt_Gaetz" title="Matt Gaetz">Matt Gaetz</a>. Mrs. Gaetz, according to the article, is a <a href="/wiki/KPMG" title="KPMG">KPMG</a> manager who has taken some MBA courses through <a href="/wiki/Harvard" class="mw-redirect" title="Harvard">Harvard</a>'s online program and in person at <a href="/wiki/Haas_Business_School" class="mw-redirect" title="Haas Business School">UC Berkeley</a>. Mr. Gaetz's notability includes <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://abcnews.go.com/US/woman-testified-house-ethics-committee-gaetz-sex-17/story?id=115867555">accusations of drug use and paying for sex with minors</a>. </p><p>A completely separate linking of Gaetz with Wikipedia was published as a trivia question in <a href="/wiki/Above_the_Law_(website)" title="Above the Law (website)">Above the Law</a>. Kathryn Rubino <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://abovethelaw.com/2024/11/donald-trumps-unusual-pick-for-attorney-general/">asked</a> "What law school did (Matt) Gaetz attend?" Despite a wealth of official sources that <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://bioguide.congress.gov/search/bio/G000578">she</a> <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/CDIR-2022-10-26/pdf/CDIR-2022-10-26-FL-H-1.pdf">could</a> <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20241106200429/https://gaetz.house.gov/about">have</a> linked to document the answer, she linked to <a href="/wiki/Category:William_%26_Mary_Law_School_alumni" title="Category:William & Mary Law School alumni">Wikipedia</a>. She told <i>The Signpost</i> that she did so "because Wikipedia is the easiest way to encapsulate multiple facts about a source with a single link. In this instance I wanted a reference that Matt Gaetz went to <a href="/wiki/William_%26_Mary_Law_School" title="William & Mary Law School">William & Mary Law</a> as well as the other notable legal figures that went to the law school but never held the position of U.S. Attorney General." – <span style="font-size:85%;"><a href="/wiki/User:Smallbones" title="User:Smallbones">S</a></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading3"><h3 id="Gwern_interview:_How_a_longtime_Wikipedian_became_an_influential_voice_in_AI_—_and_still_remains_anonymous" data-mw-thread-id="h-Gwern_interview:_How_a_longtime_Wikipedian_became_an_influential_voice_in_AI_—-signpost-article-title"><span id="Gwern_interview:_How_a_longtime_Wikipedian_became_an_influential_voice_in_AI_.E2.80.94_and_still_remains_anonymous"></span><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Gwern_interview:_How_a_longtime_Wikipedian_became_an_influential_voice_in_AI_—-signpost-article-title"></span>Gwern interview: How a longtime Wikipedian became an influential voice in AI — and still remains anonymous<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Gwern_interview:_How_a_longtime_Wikipedian_became_an_influential_voice_in_AI_—-signpost-article-title"></span></h3></div> <p>Dwarkesh Patel (a US podcaster who TIME magazine recently <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://time.com/7012877/dwarkesh-patel/">described</a> as one of the 100 most influential people in AI) published an interview titled "<a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://www.dwarkeshpatel.com/p/gwern-branwen">Gwern Branwen - How an Anonymous Researcher Predicted AI's Trajectory</a>". According to Patel, Gwern has "deeply influenced the people building <a href="/wiki/Artificial_general_intelligence" title="Artificial general intelligence">AGI</a>," and "If you've read his <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://gwern.net/">blog</a>, you know he's one of the most interesting polymathic thinkers alive." </p><p><a href="/wiki/User:Gwern" title="User:Gwern">User:Gwern</a> is also a longtime Wikipedian with <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://gwern.net/wikipedia-resume">almost 100k edits</a> on English Wikipedia. While the interview mostly focused on AI and Gwern's life as an independent writer, it also discussed the pivotal role that editing Wikipedia had played for him: </p> <style data-mw-deduplicate="TemplateStyles:r1237805129">.mw-parser-output .talkquote{color:var(--color-base,#202122);background-color:#eaf8f4;border-left:3px solid #008560;padding:0 .8em;margin:0}.mw-parser-output .talkquote-by,.mw-parser-output .talkquote-source{margin-left:1.6em}.mw-parser-output .skin-vector-2022 .talkquote>:last-child{padding-bottom:0}@media screen{html.skin-theme-clientpref-night .mw-parser-output .talkquote{background-color:#0d261f}}@media screen and (prefers-color-scheme:dark){html.skin-theme-clientpref-os .mw-parser-output .talkquote{background-color:#0d261f}}</style><blockquote class="talkquote"> <dl><dt>Dwarkesh Patel</dt></dl> <p>What is it that you are trying to maximize in your life? </p> <dl><dt>Gwern</dt></dl> <p>I maximize rabbit holes. I love more than anything else, falling into a new rabbit hole. That's what I really look forward to. Like this sudden new idea or area that I had no idea about, where I can suddenly fall into a rabbit hole for a while.<br/> [...] </p> <dl><dt>Dwarkesh Patel</dt></dl> <p>What were you doing with all these rabbit holes before you started blogging? Was there a place where you would compile them? </p> <dl><dt>Gwern</dt></dl> <p>Before I started blogging, I was editing Wikipedia.<br/> That was really gwern.net before gwern.net. Everything I do now with my site, I would have done on English Wikipedia. If you go and read some of the articles I am still very proud of—like the Wikipedia article on <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fujiwara_no_Teika">Fujiwara no Teika</a>—and you would think pretty quickly to yourself, “Ah yes, Gwern wrote this, didn't he?” </p> <dl><dt>Dwarkesh Patel</dt></dl> <p>Is it fair to say that the training that required to make gwern.net happened on Wikipedia? </p> <dl><dt>Gwern</dt></dl> <p>Yeah. I think so. I have learned far more from editing Wikipedia than I learned from any of my school or college training. Everything I learned about writing I learned by editing Wikipedia. [...] For me it was beneficial to combine rabbit-holing with Wikipedia, because Wikipedia would generally not have many good articles on the thing that I was rabbit-holing on.<br/> </p><p> It was a very natural progression from the relatively passive experience of rabbit-holing—where you just read everything you can about a topic—to compiling that and synthesizing it on Wikipedia. You go from piecemeal, a little bit here and there, to writing full articles. Once you are able to write good full Wikipedia articles and summarize all your work, now you can go off on your own and pursue entirely different kinds of writing now that you have learned to complete things and get them across the finish line.</p></blockquote> <p>However, echoing concerns Gwern had already detailed in a 2009 essay titled <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://gwern.net/inclusionism">In Defense of Inclusionism</a>, he cautioned that </p> <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1237805129"><blockquote class="talkquote"><p>It would be difficult to do that with the current English Wikipedia. It's objectively just a much larger Wikipedia than it was back in like 2004. But not only are there far more articles filled in at this point, the editing community is also much more hostile to content contribution, particularly very detailed, obsessive, rabbit hole-y kind of research projects. They would just delete it or tell you that this is not for original research or that you're not using approved sources.</p></blockquote> <p>He also recalled other ways in which Wikipedia was different in its earlier years: </p> <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1237805129"><blockquote class="talkquote"> <dl><dt>Gwern</dt></dl> <p>I got started on Wikipedia in late middle school or possibly early high school.<br/> It was kind of funny. I started skipping lunch in the cafeteria and just going to the computer lab in the library and alternating between <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neopets">Neopets</a> and Wikipedia. I had Neopets in one tab and my Wikipedia watch lists in the other. </p> <dl><dt>Dwarkesh Patel<br/></dt></dl> <p>Were there other kids in middle school or high school who were into this kind of stuff? </p> <dl><dt>Gwern</dt></dl> <p>No, I think I was the only editor there, except for the occasional jerks who would vandalize Wikipedia. I would know that because I would check the IP to see what edits were coming from the school library IP addresses. Kids being kids thought they would be jerks and vandalize Wikipedia.<br/> </p><p> For a while it was kind of trendy. Early on, Wikipedia was breaking through to mass awareness and controversy. It’s like the way LLMs are now. A teacher might say, “My student keeps reading Wikipedia and relying on it. How can it be trusted?”</p></blockquote> <p>"Gwern Branwen" is a pseudonym. Of interest to Wikipedians who are conscientious about keeping their real name separated from their public editing activity (see also coverage of a current open letter in <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/2024-11-18/News_and_notes#Open_letter" title="Wikipedia:Wikipedia Signpost/2024-11-18/News and notes">this issue's <i>News and notes</i></a>), the interview also discusses benefits of maintaining anonymity. While it was conducted in person, responses were re-recorded by a different person, and for the customary video of the interview, an AI-generated avatar was created as a stand-in. </p><p>In other parts of the interview that might likewise resonate with Wikipedians who devote large amounts of unpaid work to their hobby, Patel asked various probing questions about Gwern's personal finances, again starting from his Wikipedia volunteering: </p> <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1237805129"><blockquote class="talkquote"> <dl><dt>Dwarkesh Patel</dt></dl> <p>When you were an editor on Wikipedia, was that your full-time occupation? </p> <dl><dt>Gwern</dt></dl><p> It would eat as much time as I let it. I could easily spend 8 hours a day reviewing edits and improving articles while I was rabbit-holing. But otherwise I would just neglect it and only review the most suspicious diffs on articles that I was particularly interested in on my watchlist. I might only spend like 20 minutes a day. It was sort of like going through morning email.</p></blockquote> <p>and later </p> <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1237805129"><blockquote class="talkquote"> <dl><dt>Dwarkesh Patel</dt></dl> <p>How do you sustain yourself while writing full time? </p> <dl><dt>Gwern</dt></dl> <p><a href="/wiki/Patreon" title="Patreon">Patreon</a> and savings. I have a Patreon which does around $900-$1000/month, and then I cover the rest with my savings. [...] So I try to spend as little as possible to make it last.<br/> I should probably advertise the Patreon more, but I'm too proud to shill it harder.<br/> [...]<br/> </p><p> I live in the middle of nowhere. I don't travel much, or eat out, or have health insurance, or anything like that. [...] I live like a grad student, but with better ramen. I don't mind it much since I spend all my time reading anyway.</p></blockquote> <p>The interview then took a rather consequential turn: </p> <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1237805129"><blockquote class="talkquote"> <dl><dt>Dwarkesh Patel</dt></dl> <p>It seems like you’ve enjoyed this recent trip to San Francisco [home of several AI labs mentioned earlier in the interview, like OpenAI and Anthropic]? What would it take to get you to move here? </p> <dl><dt>Gwern</dt></dl> <p>Yeah, it is mostly just money stopping me at this point. I probably should bite the bullet and move anyway. But I'm a <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/miser" class="extiw" title="wikt:miser">miser</a> at heart and I hate thinking of how many months of writing runway I'd have to give up for each month in San Francisco.<br/> </p><p> If someone wanted to give me, I don’t know, $50–100K/year to move to SF and continue writing full-time like I do now, I'd take it in a heartbeat.</p></blockquote> <p>Patel then encouraged him to share contact information for potential donors, and <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://x.com/dwarkesh_sp/status/1857630404787974353">two days after the interview' release</a> noted that these had indeed been found and that Gwern would be moving to San Francisco. </p><p>– <span style="font-size:85%;"><a href="/wiki/User:HaeB" title="User:HaeB">H</a></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading3"><h3 id="In_brief" data-mw-thread-id="h-In_brief-signpost-article-title"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-In_brief-signpost-article-title"></span>In brief<span data-mw-comment-end="h-In_brief-signpost-article-title"></span></h3></div> <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1240928998"></div><div class="signpost-sidebar signpost-sidebar-fillerimage"><figure class="mw-halign-center" typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Whale_WikiWorld.png" class="mw-file-description"><img src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/32/Whale_WikiWorld.png/300px-Whale_WikiWorld.png" decoding="async" width="300" height="377" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/32/Whale_WikiWorld.png/450px-Whale_WikiWorld.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/32/Whale_WikiWorld.png 2x" data-file-width="600" data-file-height="753"/></a><figcaption></figcaption></figure><div class="signpost-fillerimage"><a href="/wiki/Exploding_whale" title="Exploding whale">Exploding whale</a> coverage in <i>The Signpost</i></div></div><link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1248129851"><div class="wp-signpost-block-2 wp-signpost-block-2-narrow"> <ul><li><a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://www.oregonlive.com/travel/2024/11/exploding-whale-day-now-a-full-fledged-holiday-on-the-oregon-coast-heres-how-to-celebrate.html"><i>Exploding Whale Day</i></a> (including video coverage) was celebrated in Exploding Whale Memorial Park in <a href="/wiki/Florence,_Oregon" title="Florence, Oregon">Florence, Oregon</a> and reported in <i><a href="/wiki/The_Oregonian" title="The Oregonian">The Oregonian</a></i>. See <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/2007-11-12/WikiWorld" title="Wikipedia:Wikipedia Signpost/2007-11-12/WikiWorld">previous Signpost coverage here</a> or just click on the illustration on the right. Pageviews of <a href="/wiki/Exploding_whale" title="Exploding whale">Exploding whale</a>, of course, went up 60x over the median on the anniversary.</li> <li><a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://news.exeter.ac.uk/faculty-of-environment-science-and-economy/climate-change-researchers-make-100-improvements-to-wikipedia-ahead-of-cop29/">"Climate change researchers make 100 improvements to Wikipedia ahead of COP29"</a> (<a href="/wiki/University_of_Exeter" title="University of Exeter">University of Exeter</a> News)</li> <li>itsnicethat.com tells us how <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://www.itsnicethat.com/articles/chantal-jahchan-editorial-commissions-graphic-design-project-071124">'Wikipedia rabbit holes' are the backbone of Chantal Jahchan's intricate editorial collages</a>.</li> <li><b>Digital gravestones for lost species</b>: Wikipedia articles about extinct species are a "place people return to in order to remember, or perhaps discover, what we once had", according to a study <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://theconversation.com/people-do-care-about-extinct-species-but-not-for-long-new-study-242979">highlighted</a> at <i><a href="/wiki/The_Conversation_(website)" title="The Conversation (website)">The Conversation</a></i>.</li> <li><b>Busybody, hunter, dancer: which one are you?</b>: <i><a href="/wiki/The_New_Indian_Express" title="The New Indian Express">The New Indian Express</a></i> <a rel="nofollow" class="external autonumber" href="https://www.newindianexpress.com/lifestyle/tech/2024/Nov/09/going-down-wikipedia-rabbit-hole">[1]</a>, <i><a href="/wiki/Nature_(journal)" title="Nature (journal)">Nature</a></i> briefing blog <a rel="nofollow" class="external autonumber" href="https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-024-03537-5">[2]</a>, <a href="/wiki/RealClearScience" class="mw-redirect" title="RealClearScience">RealClearScience</a> <a rel="nofollow" class="external autonumber" href="https://www.realclearscience.com/articles/2024/10/26/the_three_ways_of_going_down_a_wikipedia_rabbit_hole_1067836.html">[3]</a>, Australia's National Tribune website <a rel="nofollow" class="external autonumber" href="https://www.nationaltribune.com.au/going-down-a-wikipedia-rabbit-hole-science-says-you-re-one-of-these-three-types/">[4]</a>, and <i>The Conversation</i> <a rel="nofollow" class="external autonumber" href="https://theconversation.com/going-down-a-wikipedia-rabbit-hole-science-says-youre-one-of-these-three-types-242018">[5]</a> covered new research that outlines styles of information-gathering Wikipedia user employ, using catchy nicknames.</li> <li><b>Troubled effort to address Australian place names</b>: As covered in <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/2024-11-06/In_the_media#In_brief" title="Wikipedia:Wikipedia Signpost/2024-11-06/In the media">the previous <i>Signpost</i> issue</a>, representation of Australia place names has had some trouble. Now the <a href="/wiki/Australian_Computer_Society" title="Australian Computer Society">Australian Computer Society</a><span class="nowrap" style="padding-left:0.1em;">'</span>s <i>Information Age</i> <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://ia.acs.org.au/article/2024/really-frustrating-aussie-wikipedia-editors-burn-out.html">reports</a> on research findings of "a spectrum of reluctance, hesitation, discomfort, sanitisation and also active resistance and racism" in the topic area. They also said, "Despite researchers' attempts to find a diversity of editors to interview, only one who took part identified as a woman, while one identified as non-binary, and none were First Nations people... [researchers found] that 'basically any non-white experiences or non-dominant experiences' were omitted from many Australian Wikipedia articles".</li> <li><b>Goldstar does not get a gold star from Wikipedia</b>: According to the article, <a href="/wiki/Goldstar_Air" title="Goldstar Air">Goldstar Air</a> was a "fake airline". Yet newsghana.com <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://newsghana.com.gh/goldstar-air-urges-increased-investment-in-aviation-refutes-wikipedias-misleading-edits/">says</a> that editors describing it as such are "saboteurs [who] hatched an evil plot". You be the judge.</li></ul> <p><br/><br/> </p> <div style="text-align:center"><small><i>Do you want to contribute to "In the media" by writing a story or even just an "in brief" item? Edit next week's edition in the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/Newsroom" title="Wikipedia:Wikipedia Signpost/Newsroom">Newsroom</a> or leave a tip on the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/Newsroom/Suggestions" title="Wikipedia:Wikipedia Signpost/Newsroom/Suggestions">suggestions page</a>.</i></small></div> <p><br/> </p> </div> <div style="clear:both"></div></div> <style data-mw-deduplicate="TemplateStyles:r1236342446">.mw-parser-output .signpost-article-footer{clear:both;display:flex;flex-direction:row;flex-wrap:wrap;margin-top:4em}.mw-parser-output .signpost-succession{border-bottom:1px solid #CCC;box-sizing:border-box;clear:both;display:flex;flex:0 0 100%;flex-wrap:wrap;font-size:116%;font-family:Georgia,Palatino,"Palatino Linotype",Times,"Times New Roman",serif;font-style:italic;justify-content:space-between;padding:0.5em 0}.mw-parser-output .signpost-succession-next{margin-left:auto}.mw-parser-output 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(prefers-color-scheme:dark){html.skin-theme-clientpref-os .mw-parser-output .signpost-inthisissue>div,html.skin-theme-clientpref-os .mw-parser-output .signpost-inthisissue-heading>span,html.skin-theme-clientpref-os .mw-parser-output .signpost-inthisissue-toc,html.skin-theme-clientpref-os .mw-parser-output .signpost-inthisissue-toc>span:first-child,html.skin-theme-clientpref-os .mw-parser-output .signpost-comments-discuss,html.skin-theme-clientpref-os .mw-parser-output .signpost-comments-heading{color:#bbb}}</style><div class="signpost-article-footer"><div class="signpost-succession"><div class="signpost-succession-prev"><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/2024-11-06/In_the_media" title="Wikipedia:Wikipedia Signpost/2024-11-06/In the media">← <span class="signpost-succession-casing">Previous</span> "In the media"</a></div></div><div class="signpost-inthisissue"><div><div class="signpost-inthisissue-heading"><figure class="mw-halign-right skin-invert-image" typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost" title="Wikipedia:Wikipedia Signpost"><img alt="S" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/4c/WikipediaSignpostIcon.svg/40px-WikipediaSignpostIcon.svg.png" decoding="async" width="40" height="48" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/4c/WikipediaSignpostIcon.svg/60px-WikipediaSignpostIcon.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/4c/WikipediaSignpostIcon.svg/80px-WikipediaSignpostIcon.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="46" data-file-height="55"/></a><figcaption></figcaption></figure><span>In this issue</span></div><div class="signpost-inthisissue-toc"><span><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/Archives/2024-11-18" title="Wikipedia:Wikipedia Signpost/Archives/2024-11-18">18 November 2024</a></span> <span class="signpost-comments-disclaimer">(<a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Wikipedia_Signpost/Single/2024-11-18" title="Wikipedia talk:Wikipedia Signpost/Single/2024-11-18">all comments</a>)<br/></span><li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/2024-11-18/News_and_notes" title="Wikipedia:Wikipedia Signpost/2024-11-18/News and notes">News and notes</a> </li><li><b style="color: var(--color-base--hover, #404244)">In the media</b> </li><li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/2024-11-18/Recent_research" title="Wikipedia:Wikipedia Signpost/2024-11-18/Recent research">Recent research</a> </li><li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/2024-11-18/News_from_the_WMF" title="Wikipedia:Wikipedia Signpost/2024-11-18/News from the WMF">News from the WMF</a> </li><li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/2024-11-18/Traffic_report" title="Wikipedia:Wikipedia Signpost/2024-11-18/Traffic report">Traffic report</a></li></div></div></div><div id="comments" class="signpost-comments"><div class="signpost-comments-heading"><div><span class="signpost-comments-add plainlinks"><a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?editintro=Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/Templates/Comment-editnotice&title=Wikipedia_talk:Wikipedia_Signpost/2024-11-18/In_the_media&action=edit&preload=Wikipedia:Signpost/Templates/Signpost-article-comments-end/preload">+ Add a comment</a></span><h2 id="Discuss_this_story" id="Discuss_this_story" class="signpost-comments-discuss" data-mw-thread-id="h-Discuss_this_story-20241119001200"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Discuss_this_story-20241119001200"></span>Discuss this story<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Discuss_this_story-20241119001200"></span></h2></div></div><div class="signpost-comments-disclaimer"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Liz-20241119001200-Discuss_this_story"></span>These comments are automatically <a href="/wiki/Help:Transclusion" title="Help:Transclusion">transcluded</a> from this article's <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Wikipedia_Signpost/2024-11-18/In_the_media" title="Wikipedia talk:Wikipedia Signpost/2024-11-18/In the media">talk page</a>. To follow comments, <span class="plainlinks"><a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia_talk:Wikipedia_Signpost/2024-11-18/In_the_media&action=watch">add the page to your watchlist</a>.</span> If your comment has not appeared here, you can try <span class="noprint plainlinks purgelink"><a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/2024-11-18/In_the_media&action=purge"><span title="Purge this page">purging the cache</span></a></span>.</div><link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1240928998"><div class="nomobile"></div> <ul><li>I understand the high level of interest that exists on this project about the ANI vs. WikiMedia case but I think we have to use the same guidelines we use in content creation to determine the reliability of the sources of information we come across to learn new developments on this case. There are articles claiming that WikiMedia has turned over the personal information of these 3 editors to the Indian court but buried in <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://www.medianama.com/2024/11/223-wikipedia-to-issue-summons-editors-on-behalf-ani-delhi-hc/">this story you cite</a>, WMF states that they have not turned over any information nor sent notifications to these editors yet. With so much contradictory information circulating oline, I think editors have to use their considerable editing skills to assess what is going on in this case in these days before December 16th, the next court date, so as not fall prey to disinformation. <span style="font-family:Papyrus; color:#800080;"><a href="/wiki/User:Liz" title="User:Liz"><i><b>L</b></i>iz</a></span> <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;"><a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Liz" title="Special:Contributions/Liz"><i><b>Read!</b></i></a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Liz" title="User talk:Liz"><i><b>Talk!</b></i></a></sup> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/2024-11-18/In_the_media#c-Liz-20241119001200-Discuss_this_story" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:12, 19 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Liz-20241119001200-Discuss_this_story"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Liz-20241119001200-Discuss_this_story"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Bri-20241119002000-Liz-20241119001200"></span>This has been one of the most difficult stories to cover as a <i>Signpost</i> editor, and I wrote up the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/2019-06-30/Discussion_report" title="Wikipedia:Wikipedia Signpost/2019-06-30/Discussion report">Framgate "constitutional crisis" synopsis</a>! There's a combination of community pre-pushback on covering legal matters, opacity from the Foundation, press intentionally muddying the waters (IMHO), threat of <a href="/wiki/SLAPP_lawsuit" class="mw-redirect" title="SLAPP lawsuit">SLAPP lawsuits</a>, and a lack of <i>Signpost</i> staff to adequately chase down everything we would like to do. In the interest of the community knowledge about this crucial matter, I've pushed for the last two issues to include whatever information that we had at hand, even if it's not perfectly polished. ☆ <span style="white-space:nowrap;font-family: Papyrus"><a href="/wiki/User:Bri" title="User:Bri">Bri</a></span> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Bri" title="User talk:Bri">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/2024-11-18/In_the_media#c-Bri-20241119002000-Liz-20241119001200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:20, 19 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Bri-20241119002000-Liz-20241119001200"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Bri-20241119002000-Liz-20241119001200"></span></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Ijon-20241119165400-Liz-20241119001200"></span>(<a href="/wiki/User:Liz" title="User:Liz">Liz</a>: it's <a href="/wiki/Wikimedia" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikimedia">Wikimedia</a>, not WikiMedia.) <a href="/wiki/User:Ijon" title="User:Ijon">Ijon</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Ijon" title="User talk:Ijon">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/2024-11-18/In_the_media#c-Ijon-20241119165400-Liz-20241119001200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:54, 19 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Ijon-20241119165400-Liz-20241119001200"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Ijon-20241119165400-Liz-20241119001200"></span></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-AryKun-20241122202500-Liz-20241119001200"></span>One of the problems is that Indian news is beyond useless when it comes to trying to having the faintest idea about the stuff they report on. I doubt a single one of the reporters writing about this case have a clue how Wikipedia works or what they're actually typing. They're just trying to get their quota of articles about currently trending topics filled. <a href="/wiki/User:AryKun" title="User:AryKun">AryKun</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:AryKun" title="User talk:AryKun">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/2024-11-18/In_the_media#c-AryKun-20241122202500-Liz-20241119001200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:25, 22 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-AryKun-20241122202500-Liz-20241119001200"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-AryKun-20241122202500-Liz-20241119001200"></span><br/><div style="clear:both;"></div></dd></dl></li></ul></div></div><style data-mw-deduplicate="TemplateStyles:r1240929115">.mw-parser-output .signpost-footer{padding-top:2em}.mw-parser-output .signpost-issue-navigation,.mw-parser-output .signpost-ticker,.mw-parser-output .signpost-linkbar{box-sizing:border-box;clear:both;font-family:Georgia,Palatino,Palatino Linotype,Times,Times New Roman,serif;width:100%}.mw-parser-output .signpost-issue-navigation{font-size:116%;display:flex;flex-direction:row;flex-wrap:wrap;font-style:italic;gap:1em;justify-content:space-between;padding:0 2vw;margin:0.5em 0}.mw-parser-output .signpost-issue-nav-casing{font-size:80%;text-transform:uppercase}.mw-parser-output .signpost-ticker{border-top:3px double #BBB;color:var(--color-subtle,#333);font-size:110%;padding:5px 2vw;text-align:center;text-transform:uppercase}.mw-parser-output .signpost-linkbar{border-top:1px solid #999;padding:3px 2vw}.mw-parser-output .signpost-linkbar>div{color:#444;display:flex;flex-flow:row wrap;flex-wrap:wrap;justify-content:center;font-size:90%;margin:0 auto;max-width:80em;text-align:center}.mw-parser-output .signpost-linkbar>div>div{display:inline-block;flex:1 1 auto;min-width:6em}</style> <div class="signpost-footer"> <div class="signpost-issue-navigation noprint"></div> <div class="signpost-ticker">Explore Wikipedia history by browsing <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/Archives" title="Wikipedia:Wikipedia Signpost/Archives"><i>The Signpost</i> archives</a>.</div> <div class="signpost-linkbar"> <div> <div><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost" title="Wikipedia:Wikipedia Signpost">Home</a></div> <div><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/About" title="Wikipedia:Wikipedia Signpost/About">About</a></div> <div><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/Archives" title="Wikipedia:Wikipedia Signpost/Archives">Archives</a></div> <div><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/Newsroom" title="Wikipedia:Wikipedia Signpost/Newsroom">Newsroom</a></div> <div><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/Subscribe" title="Wikipedia:Wikipedia Signpost/Subscribe">Subscribe</a></div> <div><span class="plainlinks"><a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/Newsroom/Suggestions">Suggestions</a></span></div> </div></div></div>    </div><noscript><img src="https://login.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:CentralAutoLogin/start?type=1x1" alt="" width="1" height="1" style="border: none; position: absolute;"></noscript> <div class="printfooter" data-nosnippet="">Retrieved from "<a dir="ltr" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/2024-11-18/In_the_media&oldid=1258437083">https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/2024-11-18/In_the_media&oldid=1258437083</a>"</div></div> <div id="catlinks" class="catlinks" data-mw="interface"><div id="mw-normal-catlinks" class="mw-normal-catlinks"><a href="/wiki/Help:Category" title="Help:Category">Categories</a>: <ul><li><a href="/wiki/Category:Wikipedia_Signpost_archives_2024-11" title="Category:Wikipedia Signpost archives 2024-11">Wikipedia Signpost archives 2024-11</a></li><li><a href="/wiki/Category:Wikipedia_Signpost_RSS_feed" title="Category:Wikipedia Signpost RSS feed">Wikipedia Signpost RSS feed</a></li></ul></div></div> </div> </main> </div> <div class="mw-footer-container"> <footer id="footer" class="mw-footer" > <ul id="footer-info"> <li id="footer-info-lastmod"> This page was last edited on 19 November 2024, at 18:56<span class="anonymous-show"> (UTC)</span>.</li> <li id="footer-info-copyright">Text is available under the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Text_of_the_Creative_Commons_Attribution-ShareAlike_4.0_International_License" title="Wikipedia:Text of the Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike 4.0 International License">Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike 4.0 License</a>; additional terms may apply. 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