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<div id="contentSub"><div id="mw-content-subtitle"></div></div> <div id="mw-content-text" class="mw-body-content"><div class="mw-content-ltr mw-parser-output" lang="en" dir="ltr"><style data-mw-deduplicate="TemplateStyles:r1237879475">.mw-parser-output .tmbox{margin:4px 0;border-collapse:collapse;border:1px solid #c0c090;background-color:#f8eaba;box-sizing:border-box}.mw-parser-output .tmbox.mbox-small{font-size:88%;line-height:1.25em}.mw-parser-output .tmbox-speedy{border:2px solid #b32424;background-color:#fee7e6}.mw-parser-output .tmbox-delete{border:2px solid #b32424}.mw-parser-output .tmbox-content{border:2px solid #f28500}.mw-parser-output .tmbox-style{border:2px solid #fc3}.mw-parser-output .tmbox-move{border:2px solid #9932cc}.mw-parser-output .tmbox .mbox-text{border:none;padding:0.25em 0.9em;width:100%}.mw-parser-output .tmbox .mbox-image{border:none;padding:2px 0 2px 0.9em;text-align:center}.mw-parser-output .tmbox .mbox-imageright{border:none;padding:2px 0.9em 2px 0;text-align:center}.mw-parser-output .tmbox .mbox-empty-cell{border:none;padding:0;width:1px}.mw-parser-output .tmbox .mbox-invalid-type{text-align:center}@media(min-width:720px){.mw-parser-output .tmbox{margin:4px 10%}.mw-parser-output .tmbox.mbox-small{clear:right;float:right;margin:4px 0 4px 1em;width:238px}}@media screen{html.skin-theme-clientpref-night .mw-parser-output .tmbox{background-color:#2e2505}html.skin-theme-clientpref-night .mw-parser-output .tmbox-speedy{background-color:#310402}}@media screen and (prefers-color-scheme:dark){html.skin-theme-clientpref-os .mw-parser-output .tmbox{background-color:#2e2505}html.skin-theme-clientpref-os .mw-parser-output .tmbox-speedy{background-color:#310402}}body.skin--responsive .mw-parser-output table.tmbox img{max-width:none!important}</style><style data-mw-deduplicate="TemplateStyles:r1230750088">.mw-parser-output .talkheader{text-align:center}.mw-parser-output .talkheader-body{display:flex}.mw-parser-output .talkheader-help,.mw-parser-output .talkheader-policies,.mw-parser-output .talkheader-shortcuts{display:flex;align-items:center;padding:0.1em}.mw-parser-output .talkheader-help{flex:2 1 auto;border:1px solid #c0c090;background-color:var(--background-color-base,#ffffff);color:inherit}.mw-parser-output .talkheader-policies{flex:1 1 auto}.mw-parser-output .talkheader-policies+.talkheader-policies{border-left:1px solid #c0c090}.mw-parser-output .talkheader-shortcuts{flex:0 1 auto}.mw-parser-output .talkheader-help>*,.mw-parser-output .talkheader-policies>*,.mw-parser-output .talkheader-shortcuts>*{flex:1 1 auto}.mw-parser-output .talkheader-help ul,.mw-parser-output .talkheader-policies ul{margin:0.1em 0.8em 0 1.6em;text-align:left}@media(min-width:720px){.mw-parser-output .talkheader{min-width:80%}}</style><table role="presentation" class="tmbox tmbox-notice talkheader plainlinks" id="talkheader" style="border-collapse: separate;"><tbody><tr> <td style="border-bottom: 1px solid #c0c090; font-weight: bold;">This is the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Talk_page_guidelines" title="Wikipedia:Talk page guidelines">talk page</a> for discussing improvements to the <a href="/wiki/Bobby_Orr" title="Bobby Orr">Bobby Orr</a> article.<br/> This is <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:What_Wikipedia_is_not#FORUM" title="Wikipedia:What Wikipedia is not">not a forum</a> for general discussion of the article's subject.</td> </tr> <tr> <td> <div class="talkheader-body"> <div class="talkheader-help"> <ul><li>Put new text under old text. <strong><a href="/wiki/Special:NewSection/Talk:Bobby_Orr" title="Special:NewSection/Talk:Bobby Orr">Click here to start a new topic.</a></strong></li> <li>New to Wikipedia? Welcome! <a href="/wiki/Help:Introduction" title="Help:Introduction">Learn to edit</a>; <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Questions" title="Wikipedia:Questions">get help</a>.</li></ul> </div> <div class="talkheader-policies"> <ul><li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Assume_good_faith" title="Wikipedia:Assume good faith">Assume good faith</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Civility" title="Wikipedia:Civility">Be polite</a> and <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:No_personal_attacks" title="Wikipedia:No personal attacks">avoid personal attacks</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Please_do_not_bite_the_newcomers" title="Wikipedia:Please do not bite the newcomers">Be welcoming to newcomers</a></li> <li>Seek <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_requests" title="Wikipedia:Dispute resolution requests">dispute resolution</a> if needed</li></ul> </div><div class="talkheader-policies"> <div><b>Article policies</b> <ul><li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Neutral_point_of_view" title="Wikipedia:Neutral point of view">Neutral point of view</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:No_original_research" title="Wikipedia:No original research">No original research</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Verifiability" title="Wikipedia:Verifiability">Verifiability</a></li></ul> </div> </div> </div> </td> </tr><tr><td style="border-top: 1px solid #c0c090; padding: 1px 3px;"><span class="plainlinks"><i>Find sources:</i> <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://www.google.com/search?as_eq=wikipedia&q=%22Bobby+Orr%22">Google</a> (<a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://www.google.com/search?tbs=bks:1&q=%22Bobby+Orr%22+-wikipedia">books</a> <b>·</b> <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://www.google.com/search?tbm=nws&q=%22Bobby+Orr%22+-wikipedia&tbs=ar:1">news</a> <b>·</b> <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=%22Bobby+Orr%22">scholar</a> <b>·</b> <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://www.google.com/search?safe=off&tbs=sur:fmc&tbm=isch&q=%22Bobby+Orr%22+-site:wikipedia.org+-site:wikimedia.org">free images</a> <b>·</b> <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://www.google.com/custom?hl=en&cx=007734830908295939403%3Agalkqgoksq0&cof=FORID%3A13%3BAH%3Aleft%3BCX%3AWikipedia%2520Reference%2520Search&q=%22Bobby+Orr%22">WP refs</a>) <b>·</b> <span title="Free English newspaper sources" style="border-bottom: 1px dotted;"><a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Free_English_newspaper_sources">FENS</a></span> <b>·</b> <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://www.jstor.org/action/doBasicSearch?Query=%22Bobby+Orr%22&acc=on&wc=on">JSTOR</a> <b>·</b> <span title="The Wikipedia Library" style="border-bottom: 1px dotted;"><a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://wikipedialibrary.wmflabs.org/search/?q=%22Bobby+Orr%22">TWL</a></span></span></td></tr><tr><td style="border-top: 1px solid #c0c090; padding: 1px 3px;"><b><a href="/wiki/Help:Archiving_a_talk_page" title="Help:Archiving a talk page">Archives</a>:</b> <a href="/wiki/Talk:Bobby_Orr/Archive_1" title="Talk:Bobby Orr/Archive 1">1</a><span style="position: relative; top: 2px; float: right; font-size: 90%; margin-left: 1em;"><style data-mw-deduplicate="TemplateStyles:r1038841319">.mw-parser-output .tooltip-dotted{border-bottom:1px dotted;cursor:help}</style><span class="rt-commentedText tooltip tooltip-dotted" title="Discussions with timestamps are automatically archived by Lowercase sigmabot III after 120 days of inactivity when more than 3 threads are present.">Auto-archiving period</span>: <b>4 months</b> <span typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/Help:Archiving_a_talk_page#Automated_archiving" title="Help:Archiving a talk page"><img alt="" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/1/1d/Information_icon4.svg/16px-Information_icon4.svg.png" decoding="async" width="16" height="16" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/1/1d/Information_icon4.svg/24px-Information_icon4.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/1/1d/Information_icon4.svg/32px-Information_icon4.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="620" data-file-height="620"/></a></span></span></td> </tr><tr><td style="border-top: 1px solid #c0c090; padding: 0;"><div> <div class="mw-inputbox-centered" style=""><form name="searchbox" class="searchbox mw-inputbox-form-inline" action="/wiki/Special:Search"><div class="cdx-text-input"><input class="mw-searchInput searchboxInput cdx-text-input__input" name="search" placeholder="" size="50" dir="ltr"/></div><input type="hidden" value="Talk:Bobby Orr/" name="prefix"/> <input type="submit" name="fulltext" value="Search archives" class="cdx-button"/><input type="hidden" value="Search" name="fulltext"/></form></div> </div></td> </tr> </tbody></table> <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1237879475"><table id="cae" class="plainlinks tmbox tmbox-style" role="presentation"><tbody><tr><td class="mbox-image"><span typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Flag_of_Canada.svg" class="mw-file-description"><img src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/c/cf/Flag_of_Canada.svg/50px-Flag_of_Canada.svg.png" decoding="async" width="50" height="25" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/c/cf/Flag_of_Canada.svg/75px-Flag_of_Canada.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/c/cf/Flag_of_Canada.svg/100px-Flag_of_Canada.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="1200" data-file-height="600"/></a></span></td><td class="mbox-text">This article is <b>written in <a href="/wiki/Canadian_English" title="Canadian English">Canadian English</a></b>, which has its own spelling conventions (<i>colour</i>, <i>centre</i>, <i>travelled</i>, <i>realize</i>, <i>analyze</i>) and some terms that are used in it may be different or absent from other <a href="/wiki/List_of_dialects_of_English" title="List of dialects of English">varieties of English</a>. According to the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style#National_varieties_of_English" title="Wikipedia:Manual of Style">relevant style guide</a>, this should not be changed without <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Consensus#Levels_of_consensus" title="Wikipedia:Consensus">broad consensus</a>.</td></tr></tbody></table> <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1237879475"><style data-mw-deduplicate="TemplateStyles:r1135653291">@media(min-width:720px){.mw-parser-output .article-history{min-width:80%}}</style><table class="article-history tmbox tmbox-notice"><tbody><tr><td class="mbox-image"><span typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Symbol_support_vote.svg" class="mw-file-description" title="Good article"><img alt="Good article" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/9/94/Symbol_support_vote.svg/40px-Symbol_support_vote.svg.png" decoding="async" width="40" height="41" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/9/94/Symbol_support_vote.svg/60px-Symbol_support_vote.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/9/94/Symbol_support_vote.svg/80px-Symbol_support_vote.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="180" data-file-height="185"/></a></span></td><td class="mbox-text"><b>Bobby Orr</b> has been listed as one of the <i><b><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Good_articles/Sports_and_recreation" title="Wikipedia:Good articles/Sports and recreation">Sports and recreation good articles</a></b></i> under the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Good_article_criteria" title="Wikipedia:Good article criteria">good article criteria</a>. If you can improve it further, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Be_bold" title="Wikipedia:Be bold">please do so</a>. <small><i>If it no longer meets these criteria, you can <b><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Good_article_reassessment" title="Wikipedia:Good article reassessment">reassess</a></b> it</i>.</small></td></tr><tr><td colspan="2" style="width:100%"><table class="article-history-milestones" style="width:100%;font-size:90%"><tbody><tr><th colspan="3" style="font-size:110%">Article milestones</th></tr><tr style="text-align:left"><th>Date</th><th>Process</th><th>Result</th></tr><tr><td><span class="plainlinks"><a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Bobby_Orr&oldid=411995849">February 4, 2011</a></span></td><td><b><a href="/wiki/Talk:Bobby_Orr/GA1" title="Talk:Bobby Orr/GA1">Good article nominee</a></b></td><td>Listed</td></tr><tr><td><span class="plainlinks"><a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Bobby_Orr&oldid=415617509">February 24, 2011</a></span></td><td><b><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Peer_review/Bobby_Orr/archive1" title="Wikipedia:Peer review/Bobby Orr/archive1">Peer review</a></b></td><td>Reviewed</td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr><tr><td colspan="2">Current status: <b>Good article</b></td></tr></tbody></table> <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1237879475"><table class="plainlinks tmbox tmbox-content wpb-outside banner-shell-outside" role="presentation" style="background: var(--background-color-warning-subtle, #fef6e7); border: 1px solid var(--border-color-base, #a2a9b1); color: inherit;"><tbody><tr><td class="mbox-empty-cell"></td><td class="mbox-text">This article must adhere to the <b><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Biographies_of_living_persons" title="Wikipedia:Biographies of living persons">biographies of living persons</a></b> (<b>BLP</b>) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. 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All interested editors are invited to <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Biography/Members" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Biography/Members">join the project</a> and <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Biography" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Biography">contribute to the discussion</a>. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the <a href="/wiki/Template:WikiProject_Biography/doc" title="Template:WikiProject Biography/doc">documentation</a>.<span class="metadata wpb-metadata"><span class="wpb-project">Biography</span><span class="wpb-project_link">Wikipedia:WikiProject Biography</span><span class="wpb-banner_name">Template:WikiProject Biography</span><span class="wpb-assessment_cat">biography articles</span></span></td><td class="mbox-empty-cell"></td></tr><tr><td><figure class="mw-default-size mw-halign-center" typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Sports_and_games.png" class="mw-file-description"><img alt="Taskforce icon" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/3/34/Sports_and_games.png/27px-Sports_and_games.png" decoding="async" width="27" height="25" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/3/34/Sports_and_games.png/41px-Sports_and_games.png 1.5x, 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typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Flag-map_of_the_United_States.svg" class="mw-file-description"><img alt="WikiProject icon" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/f1/Flag-map_of_the_United_States.svg/100px-Flag-map_of_the_United_States.svg.png" decoding="async" width="100" height="63" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/f1/Flag-map_of_the_United_States.svg/150px-Flag-map_of_the_United_States.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/f1/Flag-map_of_the_United_States.svg/200px-Flag-map_of_the_United_States.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="973" data-file-height="609"/></a></span></td><td class="mbox-text"><link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1259569809"><ul role="navigation" aria-label="Portals" class="noprint portalbox portalborder portalright"> <li class="portalbox-entry"><span class="portalbox-image"><span class="mw-image-border noviewer" typeof="mw:File"><span><img alt="flag" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/a/a4/Flag_of_the_United_States.svg/32px-Flag_of_the_United_States.svg.png" decoding="async" width="32" height="17" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/a/a4/Flag_of_the_United_States.svg/48px-Flag_of_the_United_States.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/a/a4/Flag_of_the_United_States.svg/64px-Flag_of_the_United_States.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="1235" data-file-height="650"/></span></span></span><span class="portalbox-link"><a href="/wiki/Portal:United_States" title="Portal:United States">United States portal</a></span></li></ul>This article is within the scope of <b><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_United_States" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject United States">WikiProject United States</a></b>, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of topics relating to the <a href="/wiki/United_States" title="United States">United States of America</a> on Wikipedia. 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href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_United_States/Members" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject United States/Members">Become a Member</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_United_States" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject United States">Project Talk</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_United_States/Article_alerts" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject United States/Article alerts">Alerts</a></li></ul> </div><span class="metadata wpb-metadata"><span class="wpb-project">United States</span><span class="wpb-project_link">Wikipedia:WikiProject United States</span><span class="wpb-banner_name">Template:WikiProject United States</span><span class="wpb-assessment_cat">United States articles</span></span></td><td class="mbox-empty-cell"></td></tr><tr><td class="assess import-low"><a href="/wiki/Category:Low-importance_United_States_articles" title="Category:Low-importance United States articles">Low</a></td><td class="mbox-text" colspan="2">This article has been rated as <b>Low-importance</b> on the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_United_States/Assessment#Importance_scale" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject United States/Assessment">project's importance scale</a>.</td></tr><tr><td><figure class="mw-default-size mw-halign-center" typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Flag_of_Boston.svg" class="mw-file-description"><img alt="Taskforce icon" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/08/Flag_of_Boston.svg/72px-Flag_of_Boston.svg.png" decoding="async" width="72" height="50" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/08/Flag_of_Boston.svg/107px-Flag_of_Boston.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/08/Flag_of_Boston.svg/143px-Flag_of_Boston.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="500" data-file-height="350"/></a><figcaption></figcaption></figure></td><td class="mbox-text" colspan="2"><link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1259569809"><ul role="navigation" aria-label="Portals" class="noprint portalbox portalborder portalright" style="margin:0"> <li class="portalbox-entry"><span class="portalbox-image"><span class="mw-image-border noviewer" typeof="mw:File"><span><img alt="flag" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/f2/Flag_of_Massachusetts.svg/32px-Flag_of_Massachusetts.svg.png" decoding="async" width="32" height="19" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/f2/Flag_of_Massachusetts.svg/48px-Flag_of_Massachusetts.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/f2/Flag_of_Massachusetts.svg/64px-Flag_of_Massachusetts.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="1500" data-file-height="900"/></span></span></span><span class="portalbox-link"><a href="/wiki/Portal:Massachusetts" title="Portal:Massachusetts">Massachusetts portal</a></span></li></ul>This article is supported by <b><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Boston" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Boston">WikiProject Massachusetts - Boston</a></b> (assessed as <a href="/wiki/Category:Low-importance_Boston_articles" title="Category:Low-importance Boston articles">Low-importance</a>).</td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr></tbody></table> <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1237879475"><link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1259570071"><table class="tmbox tmbox-notice mw-collapsible innercollapse wpb wpb-table"><tbody><tr class="wpb-header"><td class="wpb-header-icon"><span typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Seal_of_Chicago,_Illinois.svg" class="mw-file-description"><img alt="WikiProject icon" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/fa/Seal_of_Chicago%2C_Illinois.svg/25px-Seal_of_Chicago%2C_Illinois.svg.png" decoding="async" width="25" height="25" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/fa/Seal_of_Chicago%2C_Illinois.svg/38px-Seal_of_Chicago%2C_Illinois.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/fa/Seal_of_Chicago%2C_Illinois.svg/50px-Seal_of_Chicago%2C_Illinois.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="460" data-file-height="460"/></a></span></td><td class="wpb-header-combined"><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Chicago" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Chicago">Chicago</a> <span class="wpb-header-bubbles import-low">Low‑importance</span></td></tr><tr><td class="mbox-text wpb-main" colspan="2"><table><tbody><tr><td class="mbox-image wpb-image"><span typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Seal_of_Chicago,_Illinois.svg" class="mw-file-description"><img alt="WikiProject icon" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/fa/Seal_of_Chicago%2C_Illinois.svg/65px-Seal_of_Chicago%2C_Illinois.svg.png" decoding="async" width="65" height="65" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/fa/Seal_of_Chicago%2C_Illinois.svg/98px-Seal_of_Chicago%2C_Illinois.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/fa/Seal_of_Chicago%2C_Illinois.svg/130px-Seal_of_Chicago%2C_Illinois.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="460" data-file-height="460"/></a></span></td><td class="mbox-text"><link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1259569809"><ul role="navigation" aria-label="Portals" class="noprint portalbox portalborder portalright"> <li class="portalbox-entry"><span class="portalbox-image"><span class="noviewer" typeof="mw:File"><span><img alt="" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/9b/Flag_of_Chicago%2C_Illinois.svg/32px-Flag_of_Chicago%2C_Illinois.svg.png" decoding="async" width="32" height="21" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/9b/Flag_of_Chicago%2C_Illinois.svg/48px-Flag_of_Chicago%2C_Illinois.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/9b/Flag_of_Chicago%2C_Illinois.svg/64px-Flag_of_Chicago%2C_Illinois.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="720" data-file-height="480"/></span></span></span><span class="portalbox-link"><a href="/wiki/Portal:Chicago" title="Portal:Chicago">Chicago portal</a></span></li></ul>This article is within the scope of <i><b><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Chicago" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Chicago">WikiProject Chicago</a></b></i>, which aims to improve all articles or pages related to <a href="/wiki/Chicago" title="Chicago">Chicago</a> or the <a href="/wiki/Chicago_metropolitan_area" title="Chicago metropolitan area">Chicago metropolitan area</a>.<span class="metadata wpb-metadata"><span class="wpb-project">Chicago</span><span class="wpb-project_link">Wikipedia:WikiProject Chicago</span><span class="wpb-banner_name">Template:WikiProject Chicago</span><span class="wpb-assessment_cat">Chicago articles</span></span></td><td class="mbox-empty-cell"></td></tr><tr><td class="assess import-low"><a href="/wiki/Category:Low-importance_Chicago_articles" title="Category:Low-importance Chicago articles">Low</a></td><td class="mbox-text" colspan="2">This article has been rated as <b>Low-importance</b> on the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Chicago/Assessment#Importance_scale" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Chicago/Assessment">project's importance scale</a>.</td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr></tbody></table> <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1237879475"><link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1259570071"><table class="tmbox tmbox-notice mw-collapsible innercollapse wpb wpb-table"><tbody><tr class="wpb-header"><td class="wpb-header-icon"><span typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:WikiProject_Ice_Hockey_logo.svg" class="mw-file-description"><img alt="WikiProject icon" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/2f/WikiProject_Ice_Hockey_logo.svg/29px-WikiProject_Ice_Hockey_logo.svg.png" decoding="async" width="29" height="25" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/2f/WikiProject_Ice_Hockey_logo.svg/43px-WikiProject_Ice_Hockey_logo.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/2f/WikiProject_Ice_Hockey_logo.svg/57px-WikiProject_Ice_Hockey_logo.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="501" data-file-height="439"/></a></span></td><td class="wpb-header-combined"><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Ice_Hockey" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Ice Hockey">Ice Hockey</a> </td></tr><tr><td class="mbox-text wpb-main" colspan="2"><table><tbody><tr><td class="mbox-image wpb-image"><span typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:WikiProject_Ice_Hockey_logo.svg" class="mw-file-description"><img alt="WikiProject icon" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/2f/WikiProject_Ice_Hockey_logo.svg/90px-WikiProject_Ice_Hockey_logo.svg.png" decoding="async" width="90" height="79" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/2f/WikiProject_Ice_Hockey_logo.svg/135px-WikiProject_Ice_Hockey_logo.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/2f/WikiProject_Ice_Hockey_logo.svg/180px-WikiProject_Ice_Hockey_logo.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="501" data-file-height="439"/></a></span></td><td class="mbox-text"><link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1259569809"><ul role="navigation" aria-label="Portals" class="noprint portalbox portalborder portalright"> <li class="portalbox-entry"><span class="portalbox-image"><span class="noviewer" typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:2hockeypucks.jpg" class="mw-file-description"><img alt="icon" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/af/2hockeypucks.jpg/32px-2hockeypucks.jpg" decoding="async" width="32" height="24" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/af/2hockeypucks.jpg/48px-2hockeypucks.jpg 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/af/2hockeypucks.jpg/64px-2hockeypucks.jpg 2x" data-file-width="2048" data-file-height="1536"/></a></span></span><span class="portalbox-link"><a href="/wiki/Portal:Ice_hockey" title="Portal:Ice hockey">Ice hockey portal</a></span></li></ul>This article is within the scope of <b><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Ice_Hockey" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Ice Hockey">WikiProject Ice Hockey</a></b>, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of <a href="/wiki/Ice_hockey" title="Ice hockey">ice hockey</a> on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Ice_Hockey" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Ice Hockey">the discussion</a> and see a list of open tasks.<span class="metadata wpb-metadata"><span class="wpb-project">Ice Hockey</span><span class="wpb-project_link">Wikipedia:WikiProject Ice Hockey</span><span class="wpb-banner_name">Template:WikiProject Ice Hockey</span><span class="wpb-assessment_cat">Ice Hockey articles</span></span></td><td class="mbox-empty-cell"></td></tr><tr><td colspan="3" class="wpb-collapsed-notes"><table class="mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"><tbody><tr><th colspan="3" class="wpb-collapsed-head">Associated task forces:</th></tr><tr><td class="mbox-image wpb-gutter" style="min-width:90px"><span class="wpb-iefix">/ </span></td><td></td><td></td></tr><tr><td><figure class="mw-default-size mw-halign-center" typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:BOS_Bamsefar75.png" class="mw-file-description"><img alt="Taskforce icon" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/3b/BOS_Bamsefar75.png/40px-BOS_Bamsefar75.png" decoding="async" width="40" height="25" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/3b/BOS_Bamsefar75.png 1.5x" data-file-width="44" data-file-height="28"/></a><figcaption></figcaption></figure></td><td class="mbox-text" colspan="2">This article is supported by <b><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Ice_Hockey/Boston_Bruins_task_force" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Ice Hockey/Boston Bruins task force">Boston Bruins task force</a></b>.</td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr></tbody></table> <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1237879475"><link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1259570071"><table class="tmbox tmbox-notice mw-collapsible innercollapse wpb wpb-table"><tbody><tr class="wpb-header"><td class="wpb-header-icon"><span typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:WP_Canada_Logo-.svg" class="mw-file-description"><img alt="WikiProject icon" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/0/08/WP_Canada_Logo-.svg/21px-WP_Canada_Logo-.svg.png" decoding="async" width="21" height="25" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/0/08/WP_Canada_Logo-.svg/31px-WP_Canada_Logo-.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/0/08/WP_Canada_Logo-.svg/41px-WP_Canada_Logo-.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="98" data-file-height="118"/></a></span></td><td class="wpb-header-combined"><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Canada" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Canada">Canada</a><span class="wpb-nested-task-force">: <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Ontario" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Ontario">Ontario</a> / <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Canadian_sport" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Canadian sport">Sport</a></span> <span class="wpb-header-bubbles import-high">High‑importance</span></td></tr><tr><td class="mbox-text wpb-main" colspan="2"><table><tbody><tr><td class="mbox-image wpb-image"><span typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:WP_Canada_Logo-.svg" class="mw-file-description"><img alt="WikiProject icon" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/0/08/WP_Canada_Logo-.svg/80px-WP_Canada_Logo-.svg.png" decoding="async" width="80" height="96" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/0/08/WP_Canada_Logo-.svg/120px-WP_Canada_Logo-.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/0/08/WP_Canada_Logo-.svg/160px-WP_Canada_Logo-.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="98" data-file-height="118"/></a></span></td><td class="mbox-text"><link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1259569809"><ul role="navigation" aria-label="Portals" class="noprint portalbox portalborder portalright"> <li class="portalbox-entry"><span class="portalbox-image"><span class="noviewer" typeof="mw:File"><span><img alt="flag" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/fc/Maple_Leaf_%28from_roundel%29.svg/25px-Maple_Leaf_%28from_roundel%29.svg.png" decoding="async" width="25" height="28" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/fc/Maple_Leaf_%28from_roundel%29.svg/37px-Maple_Leaf_%28from_roundel%29.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/fc/Maple_Leaf_%28from_roundel%29.svg/50px-Maple_Leaf_%28from_roundel%29.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="305" data-file-height="343"/></span></span></span><span class="portalbox-link"><a href="/wiki/Portal:Canada" title="Portal:Canada">Canada portal</a></span></li></ul>This article is within the scope of <b><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Canada" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Canada">WikiProject Canada</a></b>, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of <a href="/wiki/Canada" title="Canada">Canada</a> on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Canada" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Canada">the discussion</a> and see a list of open tasks.<span class="metadata wpb-metadata"><span class="wpb-project">Canada</span><span class="wpb-project_link">Wikipedia:WikiProject Canada</span><span class="wpb-banner_name">Template:WikiProject Canada</span><span class="wpb-assessment_cat">Canada-related articles</span></span></td><td class="mbox-empty-cell"></td></tr><tr><td class="assess import-high"><a href="/wiki/Category:High-importance_Canada-related_articles" title="Category:High-importance Canada-related articles">High</a></td><td class="mbox-text" colspan="2">This article has been rated as <b>High-importance</b> on the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Canada/Assessment#Importance_scale" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Canada/Assessment">project's importance scale</a>.</td></tr><tr><td><figure class="mw-default-size mw-halign-center" typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Flag-map_of_Ontario.svg" class="mw-file-description"><img alt="Taskforce icon" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a5/Flag-map_of_Ontario.svg/22px-Flag-map_of_Ontario.svg.png" decoding="async" width="22" height="25" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a5/Flag-map_of_Ontario.svg/34px-Flag-map_of_Ontario.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a5/Flag-map_of_Ontario.svg/44px-Flag-map_of_Ontario.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="445" data-file-height="501"/></a><figcaption></figcaption></figure></td><td class="mbox-text" colspan="2"><link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1259569809"><ul role="navigation" aria-label="Portals" class="noprint portalbox portalborder portalright" style="margin:0"> <li class="portalbox-entry"><span class="portalbox-image"><span class="mw-image-border noviewer" typeof="mw:File"><span><img alt="flag" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/88/Flag_of_Ontario.svg/32px-Flag_of_Ontario.svg.png" decoding="async" width="32" height="16" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/88/Flag_of_Ontario.svg/48px-Flag_of_Ontario.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/88/Flag_of_Ontario.svg/64px-Flag_of_Ontario.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="2400" data-file-height="1200"/></span></span></span><span class="portalbox-link"><a href="/wiki/Portal:Ontario" title="Portal:Ontario">Ontario portal</a></span></li></ul>This article is supported by <b><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Ontario" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Ontario">WikiProject Ontario</a></b>.</td></tr><tr><td><figure class="mw-default-size mw-halign-center" typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:CanadaSoccer.svg" class="mw-file-description"><img alt="Taskforce icon" 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If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Illinois" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Illinois">the discussion</a> and see a list of open tasks.<span class="metadata wpb-metadata"><span class="wpb-project">Illinois</span><span class="wpb-project_link">Wikipedia:WikiProject Illinois</span><span class="wpb-banner_name">Template:WikiProject Illinois</span><span class="wpb-assessment_cat">WikiProject Illinois articles</span></span></td><td class="mbox-empty-cell"></td></tr><tr><td class="assess import-low"><a href="/wiki/Category:Low-importance_WikiProject_Illinois_articles" title="Category:Low-importance WikiProject Illinois articles">Low</a></td><td class="mbox-text" colspan="2">This article has been rated as <b>Low-importance</b> on the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Illinois/Assessment#Importance_scale" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Illinois/Assessment">project's importance scale</a>.</td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr></tbody></table> <p class="mw-empty-elt"> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Newspaper_ad_for_Trump" data-mw-thread-id="h-Newspaper_ad_for_Trump-2020-11-01T18:39:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Newspaper_ad_for_Trump-2020-11-01T18:39:00.000Z"></span>Newspaper ad for Trump<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Newspaper_ad_for_Trump-2020-11-01T18:39:00.000Z"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Talk:Bobby_Orr&action=edit&section=1" title="Edit section: Newspaper ad for Trump"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Killashaw-2020-11-01T18:39:00.000Z-Newspaper_ad_for_Trump"></span>The article should mention the newspaper ad he placed endorsing President Trump.--<a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Killashaw&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Killashaw (page does not exist)">Killashaw</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Killashaw" title="User talk:Killashaw">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Bobby_Orr#c-Killashaw-2020-11-01T18:39:00.000Z-Newspaper_ad_for_Trump" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:39, 1 November 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Killashaw-2020-11-01T18:39:00.000Z-Newspaper_ad_for_Trump"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Killashaw-2020-11-01T18:39:00.000Z-Newspaper_ad_for_Trump"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Vaselineeeeeeee-2020-11-01T20:48:00.000Z-Killashaw-2020-11-01T18:39:00.000Z"></span>See <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:UNDUE" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:UNDUE">WP:UNDUE</a>. <b><a href="/wiki/User:Vaselineeeeeeee" title="User:Vaselineeeeeeee"><b style="color:black">Vaseline</b><b style="color:lightgrey">eeeeeee</b></a><sup><small><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Vaselineeeeeeee" title="User talk:Vaselineeeeeeee"><span style="color:gold">★★★</span></a></small></sup></b> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Bobby_Orr#c-Vaselineeeeeeee-2020-11-01T20:48:00.000Z-Killashaw-2020-11-01T18:39:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:48, 1 November 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Vaselineeeeeeee-2020-11-01T20:48:00.000Z-Killashaw-2020-11-01T18:39:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Vaselineeeeeeee-2020-11-01T20:48:00.000Z-Killashaw-2020-11-01T18:39:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Killashaw-2020-11-01T21:00:00.000Z-Vaselineeeeeeee-2020-11-01T20:48:00.000Z"></span>What viewpoint are you worried may get undue weight?--<a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Killashaw&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Killashaw (page does not exist)">Killashaw</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Killashaw" title="User talk:Killashaw">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Bobby_Orr#c-Killashaw-2020-11-01T21:00:00.000Z-Vaselineeeeeeee-2020-11-01T20:48:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:00, 1 November 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Killashaw-2020-11-01T21:00:00.000Z-Vaselineeeeeeee-2020-11-01T20:48:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Killashaw-2020-11-01T21:00:00.000Z-Vaselineeeeeeee-2020-11-01T20:48:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Ravenswing-2020-11-02T06:13:00.000Z-Killashaw-2020-11-01T21:00:00.000Z"></span>The existence of the incident at all, in the broad sweep of Orr's history. Quite a few athletes and entertainers support various politicians. Were Orr directly working for the campaign -- a bit awkward that, him being a Canadian citizen -- that would probably pass the bar. <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Ravenswing" title="User talk:Ravenswing"><b><span style="background:#2B22AA;color:#E285FF"> <i> Ravenswing </i> </span></b> </a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Bobby_Orr#c-Ravenswing-2020-11-02T06:13:00.000Z-Killashaw-2020-11-01T21:00:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">06:13, 2 November 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Ravenswing-2020-11-02T06:13:00.000Z-Killashaw-2020-11-01T21:00:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Ravenswing-2020-11-02T06:13:00.000Z-Killashaw-2020-11-01T21:00:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Killashaw-2020-11-02T08:22:00.000Z-Ravenswing-2020-11-02T06:13:00.000Z"></span>The existence of the ad isn't a viewpoint so your comments aren't relevant to <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:UNDUE" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:UNDUE">WP:UNDUE</a>.</dd> <dd>When notable athletes and entertainers do something as significant as buying a full page ad in a newspaper to support a politician, I think it is usually in their articles. What do you mean by "directly working for the campaign"? How could his endorsement have been more direct? I don't understand what his being Canadian has to do with it "passing the bar".--<a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Killashaw&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Killashaw (page does not exist)">Killashaw</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Killashaw" title="User talk:Killashaw">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Bobby_Orr#c-Killashaw-2020-11-02T08:22:00.000Z-Ravenswing-2020-11-02T06:13:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">08:22, 2 November 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Killashaw-2020-11-02T08:22:00.000Z-Ravenswing-2020-11-02T06:13:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Killashaw-2020-11-02T08:22:00.000Z-Ravenswing-2020-11-02T06:13:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Ravenswing-2020-11-03T00:43:00.000Z-Killashaw-2020-11-02T08:22:00.000Z"></span>Well, among other things, Canadian citizens don't get a vote in this country. Ummm ... I'd think it was fairly obvious what "directly working" for a political campaign is: working for it. Is Orr a paid political consultant? On the campaign staff? "I think it is usually in their articles" -- do you have some examples to proffer? <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Ravenswing" title="User talk:Ravenswing"><b><span style="background:#2B22AA;color:#E285FF"> <i> Ravenswing </i> </span></b> </a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Bobby_Orr#c-Ravenswing-2020-11-03T00:43:00.000Z-Killashaw-2020-11-02T08:22:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:43, 3 November 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Ravenswing-2020-11-03T00:43:00.000Z-Killashaw-2020-11-02T08:22:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Ravenswing-2020-11-03T00:43:00.000Z-Killashaw-2020-11-02T08:22:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Killashaw-2020-11-03T21:56:00.000Z-Ravenswing-2020-11-03T00:43:00.000Z"></span>Canadians who become American citizens get a vote. I assume Orr has. Isn't there a law against foreigners interfering in our elections?</dd> <dd>That's a heck of a "bar" you invented. Has any wealthy athlete or entertainer ever become a paid political consultant?</dd> <dd>Some examples: <a href="/wiki/Brett_Favre" title="Brett Favre">Brett Favre</a>, <a href="/wiki/Mike_Tyson" title="Mike Tyson">Mike Tyson</a>, <a href="/wiki/Eminem" title="Eminem">Eminem</a>--<a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Killashaw&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Killashaw (page does not exist)">Killashaw</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Killashaw" title="User talk:Killashaw">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Bobby_Orr#c-Killashaw-2020-11-03T21:56:00.000Z-Ravenswing-2020-11-03T00:43:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:56, 3 November 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Killashaw-2020-11-03T21:56:00.000Z-Ravenswing-2020-11-03T00:43:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Killashaw-2020-11-03T21:56:00.000Z-Ravenswing-2020-11-03T00:43:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Vaselineeeeeeee-2020-11-02T14:42:00.000Z-Killashaw-2020-11-01T18:39:00.000Z"></span>"Giving due weight and avoiding giving undue weight means articles should not give minority views or aspects as much of or as detailed a description as more widely held views or widely supported aspects." Other than this instance, Orr has not been cited as being in political activism. Therefore, this instance is an isolated case and will mean nothing in a very short amount of time, thereby giving undue weight to this viewpoint if we include it in the article. Contrast this with <a href="/wiki/Jennifer_Lopez#Political_activism" title="Jennifer Lopez">Jennifer Lopez#Political activism</a> where she is known for being a political activist for several different events. <b><a href="/wiki/User:Vaselineeeeeeee" title="User:Vaselineeeeeeee"><b style="color:black">Vaseline</b><b style="color:lightgrey">eeeeeee</b></a><sup><small><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Vaselineeeeeeee" title="User talk:Vaselineeeeeeee"><span style="color:gold">★★★</span></a></small></sup></b> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Bobby_Orr#c-Vaselineeeeeeee-2020-11-02T14:42:00.000Z-Killashaw-2020-11-01T18:39:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">14:42, 2 November 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Vaselineeeeeeee-2020-11-02T14:42:00.000Z-Killashaw-2020-11-01T18:39:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Vaselineeeeeeee-2020-11-02T14:42:00.000Z-Killashaw-2020-11-01T18:39:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Ravenswing-2020-11-03T00:43:00.000Z-Vaselineeeeeeee-2020-11-02T14:42:00.000Z"></span>Or with Tom Brady, who's had extensive coverage over the years questioning whether him being a personal friend of Trump's translates into a political endorsement. (More than once, Brady and/or his wife has stated that it doesn't.) <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Ravenswing" title="User talk:Ravenswing"><b><span style="background:#2B22AA;color:#E285FF"> <i> Ravenswing </i> </span></b> </a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Bobby_Orr#c-Ravenswing-2020-11-03T00:43:00.000Z-Vaselineeeeeeee-2020-11-02T14:42:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:43, 3 November 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Ravenswing-2020-11-03T00:43:00.000Z-Vaselineeeeeeee-2020-11-02T14:42:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Ravenswing-2020-11-03T00:43:00.000Z-Vaselineeeeeeee-2020-11-02T14:42:00.000Z"></span></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Killashaw-2020-11-03T22:07:00.000Z-Vaselineeeeeeee-2020-11-02T14:42:00.000Z"></span>@Vaselineeeeeeee, I thought I was following your argument until you mentioned "viewpoint". What viewpoint are you worried may get undue weight?--<a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Killashaw&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Killashaw (page does not exist)">Killashaw</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Killashaw" title="User talk:Killashaw">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Bobby_Orr#c-Killashaw-2020-11-03T22:07:00.000Z-Vaselineeeeeeee-2020-11-02T14:42:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:07, 3 November 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Killashaw-2020-11-03T22:07:00.000Z-Vaselineeeeeeee-2020-11-02T14:42:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Killashaw-2020-11-03T22:07:00.000Z-Vaselineeeeeeee-2020-11-02T14:42:00.000Z"></span></dd> <dd><span class="template-ping"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Killashaw-2020-11-18T22:49:00.000Z-Vaselineeeeeeee-2020-11-02T14:42:00.000Z"></span>@<a href="/wiki/User:Vaselineeeeeeee" title="User:Vaselineeeeeeee">Vaselineeeeeeee</a>:</span> Are you able to answer? <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Killashaw&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Killashaw (page does not exist)">Killashaw</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Killashaw" title="User talk:Killashaw">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Bobby_Orr#c-Killashaw-2020-11-18T22:49:00.000Z-Vaselineeeeeeee-2020-11-02T14:42:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:49, 18 November 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Killashaw-2020-11-18T22:49:00.000Z-Vaselineeeeeeee-2020-11-02T14:42:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Killashaw-2020-11-18T22:49:00.000Z-Vaselineeeeeeee-2020-11-02T14:42:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Vaselineeeeeeee-2020-11-18T22:54:00.000Z-Killashaw-2020-11-18T22:49:00.000Z"></span>Political viewpoint in this BLP is undue given the limited and isolated scope of coverage. <b><a href="/wiki/User:Vaselineeeeeeee" title="User:Vaselineeeeeeee"><b style="color:black">Vaseline</b><b style="color:lightgrey">eeeeeee</b></a><sup><small><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Vaselineeeeeeee" title="User talk:Vaselineeeeeeee"><span style="color:gold">★★★</span></a></small></sup></b> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Bobby_Orr#c-Vaselineeeeeeee-2020-11-18T22:54:00.000Z-Killashaw-2020-11-18T22:49:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:54, 18 November 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Vaselineeeeeeee-2020-11-18T22:54:00.000Z-Killashaw-2020-11-18T22:49:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Vaselineeeeeeee-2020-11-18T22:54:00.000Z-Killashaw-2020-11-18T22:49:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Killashaw-2020-11-18T22:57:00.000Z-Vaselineeeeeeee-2020-11-18T22:54:00.000Z"></span>What political viewpoint?--<a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Killashaw&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Killashaw (page does not exist)">Killashaw</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Killashaw" title="User talk:Killashaw">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Bobby_Orr#c-Killashaw-2020-11-18T22:57:00.000Z-Vaselineeeeeeee-2020-11-18T22:54:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:57, 18 November 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Killashaw-2020-11-18T22:57:00.000Z-Vaselineeeeeeee-2020-11-18T22:54:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Killashaw-2020-11-18T22:57:00.000Z-Vaselineeeeeeee-2020-11-18T22:54:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Vaselineeeeeeee-2020-11-18T23:33:00.000Z-Killashaw-2020-11-18T22:57:00.000Z"></span>Doesn't matter. <b><a href="/wiki/User:Vaselineeeeeeee" title="User:Vaselineeeeeeee"><b style="color:black">Vaseline</b><b style="color:lightgrey">eeeeeee</b></a><sup><small><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Vaselineeeeeeee" title="User talk:Vaselineeeeeeee"><span style="color:gold">★★★</span></a></small></sup></b> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Bobby_Orr#c-Vaselineeeeeeee-2020-11-18T23:33:00.000Z-Killashaw-2020-11-18T22:57:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:33, 18 November 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Vaselineeeeeeee-2020-11-18T23:33:00.000Z-Killashaw-2020-11-18T22:57:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Vaselineeeeeeee-2020-11-18T23:33:00.000Z-Killashaw-2020-11-18T22:57:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Killashaw-2020-11-18T23:52:00.000Z-Vaselineeeeeeee-2020-11-18T23:33:00.000Z"></span>When you wrote "giving undue weight to this viewpoint" are you using "viewpoint" differently than than what <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:NPOV" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:NPOV">WP:NPOV</a> is? The existence of the newspaper ad is not what <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:NPOV" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:NPOV">WP:NPOV</a> is talking about as a viewpoint. It's a fact.--<a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Killashaw&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Killashaw (page does not exist)">Killashaw</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Killashaw" title="User talk:Killashaw">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Bobby_Orr#c-Killashaw-2020-11-18T23:52:00.000Z-Vaselineeeeeeee-2020-11-18T23:33:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:52, 18 November 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Killashaw-2020-11-18T23:52:00.000Z-Vaselineeeeeeee-2020-11-18T23:33:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Killashaw-2020-11-18T23:52:00.000Z-Vaselineeeeeeee-2020-11-18T23:33:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Ravenswing-2020-11-19T01:13:00.000Z-Killashaw-2020-11-18T23:52:00.000Z"></span>Killashaw, you're just arguing for the sake of arguing at this point, and increasingly impenetrably and disingenuously. "What political viewpoint?" Seriously? That's right up there with your unfounded assumption that Orr is an American citizen, which he is not and never has been. In any event, as was quite predictable, this business came and went from the 24-hour newscycle like the ephemeral flash it was, and you've attracted no support to your premise that it is a significant and memorable event in Orr's history. Time to drop the stick, the horse is dead. <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Ravenswing" title="User talk:Ravenswing"><b><span style="background:#2B22AA;color:#E285FF"> <i> Ravenswing </i> </span></b> </a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Bobby_Orr#c-Ravenswing-2020-11-19T01:13:00.000Z-Killashaw-2020-11-18T23:52:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:13, 19 November 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Ravenswing-2020-11-19T01:13:00.000Z-Killashaw-2020-11-18T23:52:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Ravenswing-2020-11-19T01:13:00.000Z-Killashaw-2020-11-18T23:52:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Danny_B_MT-2021-08-05T20:10:00.000Z-Newspaper_ad_for_Trump"></span>I know it's not popular to criticize #4 for anything, but agree with <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Killashaw&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Killashaw (page does not exist)">Killashaw</a> on this one. It seems that many here are more interested in doing public relations for Bobby Orr than in conveying the truth in his biographical article. There is no disputing the fact that he took out a full page add in the New Hampshire Union Leader endorsing the former president and everything I wrote in my edit (which resulted in my being temporarily blocked and criticized for not making more contributions here) is verifiably true. As to whether it is newsworthy, I would argue it is based solely on the fact that it was so seemingly out-of-character for Mr. Orr to endorse such a divisive political figure. He took a risk of damaging his carefully-honed reputation when he took out that advertisement and many of his supporters voiced their shock and surprise in his support for Trump, some going so far as to write editorials and to discard their valued memorabilia. Regardless of how it is portrayed here and whether the gatekeepers will allow an honest assessment of Orr's personal life to appear here on Wikipedia, the event was certainly a "significant and memorable" event in Orr's personal history. </p><p>I was also attacked as having an anti-Orr agenda. My only agenda is honesty and in presenting Mr. Orr as he is rather than as he and his fans may wish him to be portrayed. Bobby has been my hero for the past 48 years. I have a great deal of admiration for him as a hockey player, for all his good works in the community, and for his strong character. This is why I found the incident so upsetting and noteworthy. His support for such a polarizing (and yes, sexist and racist) figure as Donald Trump was so shocking to my conscious and why I believe it should not be swept under the rug. But if gatekeepers such as <a href="/wiki/User:Vaselineeeeeeee" title="User:Vaselineeeeeeee">Vaselineeeeeeee</a> and <a href="/wiki/User:Ravenswing" title="User:Ravenswing">Ravenswing</a> are so intent on presenting only the sanitized version of Mr. Orr to the world, there is little I can do to change it. Their actions do, however, erode my faith in Wikipedia as an "open sourced" platform where one can turn to learn the truth, warts and all. <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Danny_B_MT&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Danny B MT (page does not exist)">Danny B MT</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Danny_B_MT" title="User talk:Danny B MT">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Bobby_Orr#c-Danny_B_MT-2021-08-05T20:10:00.000Z-Newspaper_ad_for_Trump" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:10, 5 August 2021 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Danny_B_MT-2021-08-05T20:10:00.000Z-Newspaper_ad_for_Trump"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Danny_B_MT-2021-08-05T20:10:00.000Z-Newspaper_ad_for_Trump"></span> </p> <ul><li><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Ravenswing-2021-08-05T21:28:00.000Z-Danny_B_MT-2021-08-05T20:10:00.000Z"></span>I'll reiterate a few of the things I said on your talk page. First off, the objection remains, as was stated before, that both <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:UNDUE" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:UNDUE">WP:UNDUE</a> and <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:BLP" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:BLP">WP:BLP</a> place strict constraints on isolated and ephemeral incidents in a public figure's career. Orr is not a political activist, nor is commonly known for the same (and as much to the point, the degree to which a Canadian citizen can be a credible activist in American elections is limited). This was not an enduring news story -- the overwhelming number of news articles about the endorsement <a rel="nofollow" class="external autonumber" href="https://www.google.com/search?q=trump+endorsement+%22bobby+orr%22&lr=&hl=en&source=lnms&tbm=nws&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjrv7Ok5ZryAhUeIDQIHWPwCw0Q_AUoAXoECAEQAw&biw=917&bih=612">[1]</a> petered out by November 3rd. That Orr did make that endorsement (something no one, of course, refutes) is beside the point. Those policies, and those objections, debar this incident from mention here.<p>But that being said, you are very ready to ascribe sinister motives to anyone who opposes you. You describe the other editors here as biased, and you described both the administrator who blocked you for BLP and edit warring violations and the one who refused your unblock request as censors. Yet these editors have made hundreds and even thousands of edits for every one they've made here, and neither of those two admins have edited this article at all, ever. <i>You</i>, by contrast, have made no other edits for twelve years save to this article and your talk page, related to this dispute. <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:SPA" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:SPA">Pushing THIS agenda <i>is</i> your sole purpose here</a>, and you cannot credibly deny it. You have attempted to link no other athletes to their political endorsements, even to slap on the spurious <a href="/w/index.php?title=Enablers_of_Donald_Trump&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Enablers of Donald Trump (page does not exist)">Enablers of Donald Trump</a> tag you tried to do here. Further, whatever you may think of Trump -- and trust me, you cannot think worse of him than I do -- endorsing an incumbent politician for reelection, something that millions of people do, is not a <i>prima facie</i> infamous or egregious act. <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:SOAPBOX" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:SOAPBOX">Wikipedia is not your soapbox</a>. <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Ravenswing" title="User talk:Ravenswing"><b><span style="background:#2B22AA;color:#E285FF"> <i> Ravenswing </i> </span></b> </a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Bobby_Orr#c-Ravenswing-2021-08-05T21:28:00.000Z-Danny_B_MT-2021-08-05T20:10:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:28, 5 August 2021 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Ravenswing-2021-08-05T21:28:00.000Z-Danny_B_MT-2021-08-05T20:10:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Ravenswing-2021-08-05T21:28:00.000Z-Danny_B_MT-2021-08-05T20:10:00.000Z"></span></p></li></ul> <dl><dd><dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Killashaw-2021-08-28T21:18:00.000Z-Ravenswing-2021-08-05T21:28:00.000Z"></span>Appropriate weight is a matter of judgment. 2 people think it is undue and 2 think it isn't. How do we break the tie?--<a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Killashaw&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Killashaw (page does not exist)">Killashaw</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Killashaw" title="User talk:Killashaw">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Bobby_Orr#c-Killashaw-2021-08-28T21:18:00.000Z-Ravenswing-2021-08-05T21:28:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:18, 28 August 2021 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Killashaw-2021-08-28T21:18:00.000Z-Ravenswing-2021-08-05T21:28:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Killashaw-2021-08-28T21:18:00.000Z-Ravenswing-2021-08-05T21:28:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-72.86.135.155-20230131202200-Newspaper_ad_for_Trump"></span>The blowback Orr got for his endorsement was broad in both Canada and US, and grew in intensity over time as Trump refused to concede his loss and provoked a Jan. 6 coup attempt. It included pro hockey players. Derek Sanderson sprang to his defense, while admitting that neither he nor Orr could vote in US elections. It is simply untrue to pretend that referencing the highest profile thing Orr has done since his retirement is to give it "undue" weight. I saw this old and unconvincing discussion after I had already added a couple of sentences on the matter to his page. <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/72.86.135.155" title="Special:Contributions/72.86.135.155">72.86.135.155</a> (<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:72.86.135.155&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User talk:72.86.135.155 (page does not exist)">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Bobby_Orr#c-72.86.135.155-20230131202200-Newspaper_ad_for_Trump" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:22, 31 January 2023 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-72.86.135.155-20230131202200-Newspaper_ad_for_Trump"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-72.86.135.155-20230131202200-Newspaper_ad_for_Trump"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-72.86.132.254-20230205010900-72.86.135.155-20230131202200"></span>I see that one of the page's "gatekeepers", Vasileneeeeeeee, is edit warring against my contribution without explanation. This appears to be a pattern. Same person opined here that including the bare facts of Orr's endorsement controversy was inherently giving undue weight to marginal/minority viewpoints. No explanation offered for that extraordinary claim. Same person also refused to be drawn when asked what "viewpoint" was being promoted by describing the facts - simply stopped responding to the query that obviously could not be answered. I think there can be no reasonable doubt that the Trump-endorsement episode and its long, controversial aftermath gained more public attention than pretty much anything Orr has done since retirement. So any way you look at it, the appeal to WP:UNDUE fails. This appears to be not at all about suppressing minority viewpoints, and everything about suppressing information that some editors don't much like. <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/72.86.132.254" title="Special:Contributions/72.86.132.254">72.86.132.254</a> (<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:72.86.132.254&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User talk:72.86.132.254 (page does not exist)">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Bobby_Orr#c-72.86.132.254-20230205010900-72.86.135.155-20230131202200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:09, 5 February 2023 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-72.86.132.254-20230205010900-72.86.135.155-20230131202200"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-72.86.132.254-20230205010900-72.86.135.155-20230131202200"></span></dd></dl> <p><span class="template-ping"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Vaselineeeeeeee-20230206012000-Newspaper_ad_for_Trump"></span>@<a href="/wiki/User:Ravenswing" title="User:Ravenswing">Ravenswing</a>:</span> It seems like an IP and a user want to restart this conversation without taking to talk. Can you keep an eye here. <b><a href="/wiki/User:Vaselineeeeeeee" title="User:Vaselineeeeeeee"><b style="color:black">Vaseline</b><b style="color:lightgrey">eeeeeee</b></a><sup><small><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Vaselineeeeeeee" title="User talk:Vaselineeeeeeee"><span style="color:gold">★★★</span></a></small></sup></b> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Bobby_Orr#c-Vaselineeeeeeee-20230206012000-Newspaper_ad_for_Trump" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:20, 6 February 2023 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Vaselineeeeeeee-20230206012000-Newspaper_ad_for_Trump"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Vaselineeeeeeee-20230206012000-Newspaper_ad_for_Trump"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Ravenswing-20230206063200-Vaselineeeeeeee-20230206012000"></span>Yeah, there's still not a consensus behind the changes, and UNDUE still applies, whether or not the anon IP likes it. As far as "failure to respond" to the latest screed goes, one does dislike repeating oneself, over and over and over again. <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Ravenswing" title="User talk:Ravenswing"><b><span style="background:#2B22AA;color:#E285FF"> <i> Ravenswing </i> </span></b> </a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Bobby_Orr#c-Ravenswing-20230206063200-Vaselineeeeeeee-20230206012000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">06:32, 6 February 2023 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Ravenswing-20230206063200-Vaselineeeeeeee-20230206012000"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Ravenswing-20230206063200-Vaselineeeeeeee-20230206012000"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-72.86.136.83-20230206175800-Ravenswing-20230206063200"></span>Neither of you has even attempted to justify your UNDUE claim; Vasiline flatly refused to do so when asked. There are no minority opinions being promoted by the addition of factual information. Neither is the information itself obscure or trivial by any reasonable measure, if that is what you actually meant. As a point of reference for trivia, the paragraph that precedes my edit is wall to wall trivia that virtually nobody could care about (jigsaw puzzles, really?!), and yet instead you are aggressively seeking to shield WP readers from seeing any information regarding a high profile controversy specific to Orr. It is plain that what you both are doing is insisting on imposing your personal preferences. As regards consensus, the majority of people who weighed in here have advocated for inclusion of this material. So it is only you 2 who are both against it and not coincidentally who both declare that there is no consensus against your own preferences. You are wrong and inconsistent on every single point you've raised to try to keep this info off of Orr's page. <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/72.86.136.83" title="Special:Contributions/72.86.136.83">72.86.136.83</a> (<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:72.86.136.83&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User talk:72.86.136.83 (page does not exist)">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Bobby_Orr#c-72.86.136.83-20230206175800-Ravenswing-20230206063200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:58, 6 February 2023 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-72.86.136.83-20230206175800-Ravenswing-20230206063200"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-72.86.136.83-20230206175800-Ravenswing-20230206063200"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Ravenswing-20230210213900-72.86.136.83-20230206175800"></span>Yeah, we can see where <i>your</i> sympathies are at, edit warring to expand this further into a colossal deal. Enjoy your block. <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Ravenswing" title="User talk:Ravenswing"><b><span style="background:#2B22AA;color:#E285FF"> <i> Ravenswing </i> </span></b> </a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Bobby_Orr#c-Ravenswing-20230210213900-72.86.136.83-20230206175800" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:39, 10 February 2023 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Ravenswing-20230210213900-72.86.136.83-20230206175800"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Ravenswing-20230210213900-72.86.136.83-20230206175800"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="One_of_two_to_win_four_major_awards?" data-mw-thread-id="h-One_of_two_to_win_four_major_awards?-2022-04-29T11:22:00.000Z"><span id="One_of_two_to_win_four_major_awards.3F"></span><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-One_of_two_to_win_four_major_awards?-2022-04-29T11:22:00.000Z"></span>One of two to win four major awards?<span data-mw-comment-end="h-One_of_two_to_win_four_major_awards?-2022-04-29T11:22:00.000Z"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Talk:Bobby_Orr&action=edit&section=2" title="Edit section: One of two to win four major awards?"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-104.219.133.109-2022-04-29T11:22:00.000Z-One_of_two_to_win_four_major_awards?"></span>In 85 Gretzky won the Hart, the Art Ross, the Lester B Pearson award and the Conn Smythe. Lafleur has also won these same awards in one year. <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/104.219.133.109" title="Special:Contributions/104.219.133.109">104.219.133.109</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:104.219.133.109" title="User talk:104.219.133.109">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Bobby_Orr#c-104.219.133.109-2022-04-29T11:22:00.000Z-One_of_two_to_win_four_major_awards?" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">11:22, 29 April 2022 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-104.219.133.109-2022-04-29T11:22:00.000Z-One_of_two_to_win_four_major_awards?"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-104.219.133.109-2022-04-29T11:22:00.000Z-One_of_two_to_win_four_major_awards?"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Killashaw-2022-05-01T23:31:00.000Z-104.219.133.109-2022-04-29T11:22:00.000Z"></span>The sentence says "major NHL awards" which shouldn't include the Pearson since it was awarded by the NHLPA. What qualifies as major? Let's avoid that issue and just say that he is the first to win four NHL awards in a season.--<a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Killashaw&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Killashaw (page does not exist)">Killashaw</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Killashaw" title="User talk:Killashaw">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Bobby_Orr#c-Killashaw-2022-05-01T23:31:00.000Z-104.219.133.109-2022-04-29T11:22:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:31, 1 May 2022 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Killashaw-2022-05-01T23:31:00.000Z-104.219.133.109-2022-04-29T11:22:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Killashaw-2022-05-01T23:31:00.000Z-104.219.133.109-2022-04-29T11:22:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl> <ul><li><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Ravenswing-2022-05-02T00:50:00.000Z-104.219.133.109-2022-04-29T11:22:00.000Z"></span>Mm, there's no issue to avoid. As you say, the Pearson is not an NHL award, nor is recognized as one. Neither Gretzky nor Lafleur count here. <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Ravenswing" title="User talk:Ravenswing"><b><span style="background:#2B22AA;color:#E285FF"> <i> Ravenswing </i> </span></b> </a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Bobby_Orr#c-Ravenswing-2022-05-02T00:50:00.000Z-104.219.133.109-2022-04-29T11:22:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:50, 2 May 2022 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Ravenswing-2022-05-02T00:50:00.000Z-104.219.133.109-2022-04-29T11:22:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Ravenswing-2022-05-02T00:50:00.000Z-104.219.133.109-2022-04-29T11:22:00.000Z"></span></li></ul> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Killashaw-2022-05-19T17:09:00.000Z-104.219.133.109-2022-04-29T11:22:00.000Z"></span>So we should remove the sentence about Ovechkin since his four include the Pearson.--<a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Killashaw&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Killashaw (page does not exist)">Killashaw</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Killashaw" title="User talk:Killashaw">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Bobby_Orr#c-Killashaw-2022-05-19T17:09:00.000Z-104.219.133.109-2022-04-29T11:22:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:09, 19 May 2022 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Killashaw-2022-05-19T17:09:00.000Z-104.219.133.109-2022-04-29T11:22:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Killashaw-2022-05-19T17:09:00.000Z-104.219.133.109-2022-04-29T11:22:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Killashaw-2022-06-01T19:54:00.000Z-Killashaw-2022-05-19T17:09:00.000Z"></span>Done--<a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Killashaw&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Killashaw (page does not exist)">Killashaw</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Killashaw" title="User talk:Killashaw">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Bobby_Orr#c-Killashaw-2022-06-01T19:54:00.000Z-Killashaw-2022-05-19T17:09:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:54, 1 June 2022 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Killashaw-2022-06-01T19:54:00.000Z-Killashaw-2022-05-19T17:09:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Killashaw-2022-06-01T19:54:00.000Z-Killashaw-2022-05-19T17:09:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Double_usage." data-mw-thread-id="h-Double_usage.-20230117064400"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Double_usage.-20230117064400"></span>Double usage.<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Double_usage.-20230117064400"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Talk:Bobby_Orr&action=edit&section=3" title="Edit section: Double usage."><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-KirkCliff2-20230117064400-Double_usage."></span>The same picture of Orr’s skates on display at the HHOF is used twice in the article, with slightly different descriptions. While it may not necessarily be a violation of MOS guidelines or anything like that, it is unusual. <a href="/wiki/User:KirkCliff2" title="User:KirkCliff2">KirkCliff2</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:KirkCliff2" title="User talk:KirkCliff2">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Bobby_Orr#c-KirkCliff2-20230117064400-Double_usage." class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">06:44, 17 January 2023 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-KirkCliff2-20230117064400-Double_usage."><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-KirkCliff2-20230117064400-Double_usage."></span> </p>    </div><noscript><img src="https://login.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:CentralAutoLogin/start?type=1x1&useformat=desktop" alt="" width="1" 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