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href="#c-Ifly6-20241218020700-2603:6010:100:6E85:20E2:4920:8804:978C-20241217234300">5 hours ago</a> by Ifly6 in topic <a href="#Revision_/_reversion_revisited">Revision / reversion revisited</a></div></div> </div> <div id="bodyContent" class="content"> <div id="mw-content-text" class="mw-body-content"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-lede-button-container"><span id='ooui-php-49' class='ext-discussiontools-init-lede-button oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-buttonWidget' data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"info","label":"Learn more about this page","classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-lede-button"]}'><a role='button' tabindex='0' rel='nofollow' class='oo-ui-buttonElement-button'><span class='oo-ui-iconElement-icon oo-ui-icon-info'></span><span class='oo-ui-labelElement-label'>Learn more about this page</span><span 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img{max-width:none!important}</style> </p> <table id="archivebox" role="presentation" class="tmbox tmbox-notice mbox-small" style="text-align: center; padding: 1em;"> <tbody><tr> <td style="padding:0.6em 0 0.25em;"> <div style="width:100%; overflow:hidden;"><span typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Replacement_filing_cabinet.svg" class="mw-file-description"><img src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/2/2a/Replacement_filing_cabinet.svg/40px-Replacement_filing_cabinet.svg.png" decoding="async" width="40" height="40" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/2/2a/Replacement_filing_cabinet.svg/60px-Replacement_filing_cabinet.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/2/2a/Replacement_filing_cabinet.svg/80px-Replacement_filing_cabinet.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="200" data-file-height="200"></a></span><br><b>Archives</b></div> </td></tr><tr> <td class="plainlinks"> <table style="width: 100%; padding: 0px; text-align: center; background-color: transparent;"><tbody><tr><td><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Ifly6/Archive_1" title="User talk:Ifly6/Archive 1">Archive 1</a></td></tr></tbody></table> </td> </tr><tr><td style="padding-bottom:11px"><div class="mw-inputbox-centered" style=""><form name="searchbox" class="searchbox mw-inputbox-form" action="/wiki/Special:Search"><div class="cdx-text-input"><input class="mw-inputbox-input mw-searchInput searchboxInput cdx-text-input__input" name="search" placeholder="" size="22" dir="ltr"></div><input type="hidden" value="User talk:Ifly6/" name="prefix"><br><input type="submit" name="fulltext" value="Search archives" class="cdx-button"><input type="hidden" value="Search" name="fulltext"></form></div> </td></tr><tr><td style="padding:0px 10px; font-size:11.9px;"> <hr> This page has archives. Sections older than <b>90 days</b> may be automatically archived by <span class="nowraplinks"><a href="/wiki/User:Lowercase_sigmabot_III" title="User:Lowercase sigmabot III">Lowercase sigmabot III</a></span> when more than 4 sections are present.</td></tr> </tbody></table> <div id="toc" class="toc" role="navigation" aria-labelledby="mw-toc-heading"><input type="checkbox" role="button" id="toctogglecheckbox" class="toctogglecheckbox" style="display:none"><div class="toctitle" lang="en" dir="ltr"><h2 id="mw-toc-heading">Contents</h2><span class="toctogglespan"><label class="toctogglelabel" for="toctogglecheckbox"></label></span></div> <ul> <li class="toclevel-1 tocsection-1"><a href="#Barnstar"><span class="tocnumber">1</span> <span class="toctext">Barnstar</span></a></li> <li class="toclevel-1 tocsection-2"><a href="#A_barnstar_for_you!"><span class="tocnumber">2</span> <span class="toctext">A barnstar for you!</span></a></li> <li class="toclevel-1 tocsection-3"><a href="#A_barnstar_for_you!_2"><span class="tocnumber">3</span> <span class="toctext">A barnstar for you!</span></a></li> <li class="toclevel-1 tocsection-4"><a href="#Crisis_of_the_Roman_Republic"><span class="tocnumber">4</span> <span class="toctext">Crisis of the Roman Republic</span></a></li> <li class="toclevel-1 tocsection-5"><a href="#JC_and_M-M"><span class="tocnumber">5</span> <span class="toctext">JC and M-M</span></a></li> <li class="toclevel-1 tocsection-6"><a href="#Disambiguation_link_notification_for_October_19"><span class="tocnumber">6</span> <span class="toctext">Disambiguation link notification for October 19</span></a></li> <li class="toclevel-1 tocsection-7"><a href="#WikiProject_Unreferenced_articles_November_2024_backlog_drive"><span class="tocnumber">7</span> <span class="toctext">WikiProject Unreferenced articles November 2024 backlog drive</span></a></li> <li class="toclevel-1 tocsection-8"><a href="#Invitation_to_participate_in_a_research"><span class="tocnumber">8</span> <span class="toctext">Invitation to participate in a research</span></a></li> <li class="toclevel-1 tocsection-9"><a href="#Feedback_request:_History_and_geography_request_for_comment"><span class="tocnumber">9</span> <span class="toctext">Feedback request: History and geography request for comment</span></a></li> <li class="toclevel-1 tocsection-10"><a href="#George_Floyd_(American_football)"><span class="tocnumber">10</span> <span class="toctext">George Floyd (American football)</span></a></li> <li class="toclevel-1 tocsection-11"><a href="#Reminder_to_participate_in_Wikipedia_research"><span class="tocnumber">11</span> <span class="toctext">Reminder to participate in Wikipedia research</span></a></li> <li class="toclevel-1 tocsection-12"><a href="#Question_regarding_Primary_sources."><span class="tocnumber">12</span> <span class="toctext">Question regarding Primary sources.</span></a></li> <li class="toclevel-1 tocsection-13"><a href="#ArbCom_2024_Elections_voter_message"><span class="tocnumber">13</span> <span class="toctext">ArbCom 2024 Elections voter message</span></a></li> <li class="toclevel-1 tocsection-14"><a href="#New_message_to_Ifly6"><span class="tocnumber">14</span> <span class="toctext">New message to Ifly6</span></a></li> <li class="toclevel-1 tocsection-15"><a href="#First_Mithridatic_War"><span class="tocnumber">15</span> <span class="toctext">First Mithridatic War</span></a></li> <li class="toclevel-1 tocsection-16"><a href="#Feedback_request:_History_and_geography_request_for_comment_2"><span class="tocnumber">16</span> <span class="toctext">Feedback request: History and geography request for comment</span></a></li> <li class="toclevel-1 tocsection-17"><a href="#Revision_/_reversion_revisited"><span class="tocnumber">17</span> <span class="toctext">Revision / reversion revisited</span></a></li> </ul> </div> </section><div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section section-heading" onclick="mfTempOpenSection(1)"><span class="indicator mf-icon mf-icon-expand mf-icon--small"></span><h2 id="Barnstar" data-mw-thread-id="h-Barnstar-20220817225700"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Barnstar-20220817225700"></span>Barnstar<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Barnstar-20220817225700"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"> <a role="button" href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Ifly6&action=edit&section=1" title="Edit section: Barnstar" class="cdx-button cdx-button--size-large cdx-button--fake-button cdx-button--fake-button--enabled cdx-button--icon-only cdx-button--weight-quiet "> <span class="minerva-icon minerva-icon--edit"></span> <span>edit</span> </a> </span> <span id='ooui-php-32' class='ext-discussiontools-init-section-overflowMenuButton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-buttonWidget' data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonMenuSelectWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"ellipsis","data":{"itemConfigs":[{"id":"edit","data":{"id":"edit"},"icon":"edit","label":"Edit"}],"resourceLoaderModules":[]},"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-section-overflowMenuButton"]}'><a role='button' tabindex='0' rel='nofollow' class='oo-ui-buttonElement-button'><span class='oo-ui-iconElement-icon oo-ui-icon-ellipsis'></span><span class='oo-ui-labelElement-label'></span><span class='oo-ui-indicatorElement-indicator oo-ui-indicatorElement-noIndicator'></span></a></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"><span class='ext-discussiontools-init-section-metaitem ext-discussiontools-init-section-timestampLabel'>Latest comment: <a href="#c-Ifly6-20220822142000-Avilich-20220822034100">2 years ago</a></span><span class='ext-discussiontools-init-section-metaitem ext-discussiontools-init-section-commentCountLabel'>4 comments</span><span class='ext-discussiontools-init-section-metaitem ext-discussiontools-init-section-authorCountLabel'>2 people in discussion</span></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div><section class="mf-section-1 collapsible-block" id="mf-section-1"> <table style="border: 1px solid gray; background-color: #fdffe7;"> <tbody><tr> <td rowspan="2" style="vertical-align:middle;"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Avilich-20220817225700-Barnstar"></span><span typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Original_Barnstar.png" class="mw-file-description"><noscript><img src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/27/Original_Barnstar.png/100px-Original_Barnstar.png" decoding="async" width="100" height="96" class="mw-file-element" data-file-width="111" data-file-height="107"></noscript><span class="lazy-image-placeholder" style="width: 100px;height: 96px;" data-src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/27/Original_Barnstar.png/100px-Original_Barnstar.png" data-width="100" data-height="96" data-srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/27/Original_Barnstar.png 1.5x" data-class="mw-file-element"> </span></a></span> </td> <td rowspan="2"> </td> <td style="font-size: x-large; padding: 0; vertical-align: middle; height: 1.1em;"><b>The Original Barnstar</b> </td></tr> <tr> <td style="vertical-align: middle; border-top: 1px solid gray;">For all your contributions relating to the topic of Rome, commendable for both their quality and quantity. <a href="/wiki/User:Avilich" class="mw-redirect" title="User:Avilich">Avilich</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Avilich" title="User talk:Avilich">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Ifly6#c-Avilich-20220817225700-Barnstar" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:57, 17 August 2022 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Avilich-20220817225700-Barnstar"><span id="ooui-php-1" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button"><span class="oo-ui-iconElement-icon oo-ui-icon-share oo-ui-image-progressive"></span><span class="oo-ui-labelElement-label">Reply</span><span class="oo-ui-indicatorElement-indicator oo-ui-indicatorElement-noIndicator oo-ui-image-progressive"></span></a></span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Avilich-20220817225700-Barnstar"></span> </td></tr></tbody></table> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Ifly6-20220818000600-Avilich-20220817225700"></span>Thank you! <a href="/wiki/User:Ifly6" title="User:Ifly6">Ifly6</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Ifly6#c-Ifly6-20220818000600-Avilich-20220817225700" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:06, 18 August 2022 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Ifly6-20220818000600-Avilich-20220817225700"><span id="ooui-php-2" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button"><span class="oo-ui-iconElement-icon oo-ui-icon-share oo-ui-image-progressive"></span><span class="oo-ui-labelElement-label">Reply</span><span class="oo-ui-indicatorElement-indicator oo-ui-indicatorElement-noIndicator oo-ui-image-progressive"></span></a></span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Ifly6-20220818000600-Avilich-20220817225700"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Avilich-20220822034100-Ifly6-20220818000600"></span>That was quick, congrats on the GA for Catilinarian consp. <a href="/wiki/User:Avilich" class="mw-redirect" title="User:Avilich">Avilich</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Avilich" title="User talk:Avilich">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Ifly6#c-Avilich-20220822034100-Ifly6-20220818000600" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">03:41, 22 August 2022 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Avilich-20220822034100-Ifly6-20220818000600"><span id="ooui-php-3" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button"><span class="oo-ui-iconElement-icon oo-ui-icon-share oo-ui-image-progressive"></span><span class="oo-ui-labelElement-label">Reply</span><span class="oo-ui-indicatorElement-indicator oo-ui-indicatorElement-noIndicator oo-ui-image-progressive"></span></a></span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Avilich-20220822034100-Ifly6-20220818000600"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Ifly6-20220822142000-Avilich-20220822034100"></span>Thanks! <a href="/wiki/User:Ifly6" title="User:Ifly6">Ifly6</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Ifly6#c-Ifly6-20220822142000-Avilich-20220822034100" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">14:20, 22 August 2022 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Ifly6-20220822142000-Avilich-20220822034100"><span id="ooui-php-4" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button"><span class="oo-ui-iconElement-icon oo-ui-icon-share oo-ui-image-progressive"></span><span class="oo-ui-labelElement-label">Reply</span><span class="oo-ui-indicatorElement-indicator oo-ui-indicatorElement-noIndicator oo-ui-image-progressive"></span></a></span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Ifly6-20220822142000-Avilich-20220822034100"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> </section><div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section section-heading" onclick="mfTempOpenSection(2)"><span class="indicator mf-icon mf-icon-expand mf-icon--small"></span><h2 id="A_barnstar_for_you!" data-mw-thread-id="h-A_barnstar_for_you!-20220821234700"><span id="A_barnstar_for_you.21"></span><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-A_barnstar_for_you!-20220821234700"></span>A barnstar for you!<span data-mw-comment-end="h-A_barnstar_for_you!-20220821234700"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"> <a role="button" href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Ifly6&action=edit&section=2" title="Edit section: A barnstar for you!" class="cdx-button cdx-button--size-large cdx-button--fake-button cdx-button--fake-button--enabled cdx-button--icon-only cdx-button--weight-quiet "> <span class="minerva-icon minerva-icon--edit"></span> <span>edit</span> </a> </span> <span id='ooui-php-33' class='ext-discussiontools-init-section-overflowMenuButton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-buttonWidget' data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonMenuSelectWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"ellipsis","data":{"itemConfigs":[{"id":"edit","data":{"id":"edit"},"icon":"edit","label":"Edit"}],"resourceLoaderModules":[]},"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-section-overflowMenuButton"]}'><a role='button' tabindex='0' rel='nofollow' class='oo-ui-buttonElement-button'><span class='oo-ui-iconElement-icon oo-ui-icon-ellipsis'></span><span class='oo-ui-labelElement-label'></span><span class='oo-ui-indicatorElement-indicator oo-ui-indicatorElement-noIndicator'></span></a></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"><span class='ext-discussiontools-init-section-metaitem ext-discussiontools-init-section-timestampLabel'>Latest comment: <a href="#c-Iazyges-20220821234700-A_barnstar_for_you!">2 years ago</a></span><span class='ext-discussiontools-init-section-metaitem ext-discussiontools-init-section-commentCountLabel'>1 comment</span><span class='ext-discussiontools-init-section-metaitem ext-discussiontools-init-section-authorCountLabel'>1 person in discussion</span></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div><section class="mf-section-2 collapsible-block" id="mf-section-2"> <table style="background-color: #fdffe7; border: 1px solid #fceb92;"> <tbody><tr> <td rowspan="2" style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 5px;"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Iazyges-20220821234700-A_barnstar_for_you!"></span><span typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Writers_Barnstar_Hires.png" class="mw-file-description"><noscript><img src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/8c/Writers_Barnstar_Hires.png/100px-Writers_Barnstar_Hires.png" decoding="async" width="100" height="95" class="mw-file-element" data-file-width="2000" data-file-height="1900"></noscript><span class="lazy-image-placeholder" style="width: 100px;height: 95px;" data-src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/8c/Writers_Barnstar_Hires.png/100px-Writers_Barnstar_Hires.png" data-width="100" data-height="95" data-srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/8c/Writers_Barnstar_Hires.png/150px-Writers_Barnstar_Hires.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/8c/Writers_Barnstar_Hires.png/200px-Writers_Barnstar_Hires.png 2x" data-class="mw-file-element"> </span></a></span> </td> <td style="font-size: x-large; padding: 3px 3px 0 3px; height: 1.5em;"><b>The Writer's Barnstar</b> </td></tr> <tr> <td style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 3px;">For bringing <a href="/wiki/Catilinarian_conspiracy" title="Catilinarian conspiracy">Catilinarian conspiracy</a> to GA, at long-last. Great work! <a href="/wiki/User:Iazyges" title="User:Iazyges"><span style="color:#838996">Iazyges</span></a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Iazyges" title="User talk:Iazyges"><span style="color:#838996">Consermonor</span></a> <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Iazyges" title="Special:Contributions/Iazyges"><span style="color:#838996">Opus meum</span></a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Ifly6#c-Iazyges-20220821234700-A_barnstar_for_you!" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:47, 21 August 2022 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Iazyges-20220821234700-A_barnstar_for_you!"><span id="ooui-php-5" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button"><span class="oo-ui-iconElement-icon oo-ui-icon-share oo-ui-image-progressive"></span><span class="oo-ui-labelElement-label">Reply</span><span class="oo-ui-indicatorElement-indicator oo-ui-indicatorElement-noIndicator oo-ui-image-progressive"></span></a></span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Iazyges-20220821234700-A_barnstar_for_you!"></span> </td></tr></tbody></table> </section><div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section section-heading" onclick="mfTempOpenSection(3)"><span class="indicator mf-icon mf-icon-expand mf-icon--small"></span><h2 id="A_barnstar_for_you!_2" data-mw-thread-id="h-A_barnstar_for_you!_2-20230424220700"><span id="A_barnstar_for_you.21_2"></span><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-A_barnstar_for_you!_2-20230424220700"></span>A barnstar for you!<span data-mw-comment-end="h-A_barnstar_for_you!_2-20230424220700"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"> <a role="button" href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Ifly6&action=edit&section=3" title="Edit section: A barnstar for you!" class="cdx-button cdx-button--size-large cdx-button--fake-button cdx-button--fake-button--enabled cdx-button--icon-only cdx-button--weight-quiet "> <span class="minerva-icon minerva-icon--edit"></span> <span>edit</span> </a> </span> <span id='ooui-php-34' class='ext-discussiontools-init-section-overflowMenuButton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-buttonWidget' data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonMenuSelectWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"ellipsis","data":{"itemConfigs":[{"id":"edit","data":{"id":"edit"},"icon":"edit","label":"Edit"}],"resourceLoaderModules":[]},"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-section-overflowMenuButton"]}'><a role='button' tabindex='0' rel='nofollow' class='oo-ui-buttonElement-button'><span class='oo-ui-iconElement-icon oo-ui-icon-ellipsis'></span><span class='oo-ui-labelElement-label'></span><span class='oo-ui-indicatorElement-indicator oo-ui-indicatorElement-noIndicator'></span></a></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"><span class='ext-discussiontools-init-section-metaitem ext-discussiontools-init-section-timestampLabel'>Latest comment: <a href="#c-Buidhe-20230424220700-A_barnstar_for_you!_2">1 year ago</a></span><span class='ext-discussiontools-init-section-metaitem ext-discussiontools-init-section-commentCountLabel'>1 comment</span><span class='ext-discussiontools-init-section-metaitem ext-discussiontools-init-section-authorCountLabel'>1 person in discussion</span></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div><section class="mf-section-3 collapsible-block" id="mf-section-3"> <table style="background-color: #fdffe7; border: 1px solid #fceb92;"> <tbody><tr> <td rowspan="2" style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 5px;"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Buidhe-20230424220700-A_barnstar_for_you!_2"></span><span typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Team_Barnstar_Hires.png" class="mw-file-description"><noscript><img src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/27/Team_Barnstar_Hires.png/100px-Team_Barnstar_Hires.png" decoding="async" width="100" height="95" class="mw-file-element" data-file-width="2000" data-file-height="1900"></noscript><span class="lazy-image-placeholder" style="width: 100px;height: 95px;" data-src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/27/Team_Barnstar_Hires.png/100px-Team_Barnstar_Hires.png" data-width="100" data-height="95" data-srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/27/Team_Barnstar_Hires.png/150px-Team_Barnstar_Hires.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/27/Team_Barnstar_Hires.png/200px-Team_Barnstar_Hires.png 2x" data-class="mw-file-element"> </span></a></span> </td> <td style="font-size: x-large; padding: 3px 3px 0 3px; height: 1.5em;"><b>The Teamwork Barnstar</b> </td></tr> <tr> <td style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 3px;">Here is the award you deserve for doing the most detailed GAN review by a new reviewer in the last month, in my view, at <a href="/wiki/Talk:Battle_of_New_Carthage/GA1" title="Talk:Battle of New Carthage/GA1">Talk:Battle of New Carthage/GA1</a>. (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Buidhe" title="User talk:Buidhe">t</a> · <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Buidhe" title="Special:Contributions/Buidhe">c</a>) <b><a href="/wiki/User:Buidhe" title="User:Buidhe"><span style="color: black">buidhe</span></a></b> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Ifly6#c-Buidhe-20230424220700-A_barnstar_for_you!_2" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:07, 24 April 2023 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Buidhe-20230424220700-A_barnstar_for_you!_2"><span id="ooui-php-6" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button"><span class="oo-ui-iconElement-icon oo-ui-icon-share oo-ui-image-progressive"></span><span class="oo-ui-labelElement-label">Reply</span><span class="oo-ui-indicatorElement-indicator oo-ui-indicatorElement-noIndicator oo-ui-image-progressive"></span></a></span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Buidhe-20230424220700-A_barnstar_for_you!_2"></span> </td></tr></tbody></table> </section><div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section section-heading" onclick="mfTempOpenSection(4)"><span class="indicator mf-icon mf-icon-expand mf-icon--small"></span><h2 id="Crisis_of_the_Roman_Republic" data-mw-thread-id="h-Crisis_of_the_Roman_Republic-20240921185300"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Crisis_of_the_Roman_Republic-20240921185300"></span><a href="/wiki/Crisis_of_the_Roman_Republic" title="Crisis of the Roman Republic">Crisis of the Roman Republic</a><span data-mw-comment-end="h-Crisis_of_the_Roman_Republic-20240921185300"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"> <a role="button" href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Ifly6&action=edit&section=4" title="Edit section: Crisis of the Roman Republic" class="cdx-button cdx-button--size-large cdx-button--fake-button cdx-button--fake-button--enabled cdx-button--icon-only cdx-button--weight-quiet "> <span class="minerva-icon minerva-icon--edit"></span> <span>edit</span> </a> </span> <span id='ooui-php-35' class='ext-discussiontools-init-section-overflowMenuButton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-buttonWidget' data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonMenuSelectWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"ellipsis","data":{"itemConfigs":[{"id":"edit","data":{"id":"edit"},"icon":"edit","label":"Edit"}],"resourceLoaderModules":[]},"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-section-overflowMenuButton"]}'><a role='button' tabindex='0' rel='nofollow' class='oo-ui-buttonElement-button'><span class='oo-ui-iconElement-icon oo-ui-icon-ellipsis'></span><span class='oo-ui-labelElement-label'></span><span class='oo-ui-indicatorElement-indicator oo-ui-indicatorElement-noIndicator'></span></a></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"><span class='ext-discussiontools-init-section-metaitem ext-discussiontools-init-section-timestampLabel'>Latest comment: <a href="#c-Bearian-20240921185300-Crisis_of_the_Roman_Republic">2 months ago</a></span><span class='ext-discussiontools-init-section-metaitem ext-discussiontools-init-section-commentCountLabel'>1 comment</span><span class='ext-discussiontools-init-section-metaitem ext-discussiontools-init-section-authorCountLabel'>1 person in discussion</span></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div><section class="mf-section-4 collapsible-block" id="mf-section-4"> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Bearian-20240921185300-Crisis_of_the_Roman_Republic"></span>I would like work with you on this article. What are the best first steps? <a href="/wiki/User:Bearian" title="User:Bearian">Bearian</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Bearian" title="User talk:Bearian">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Ifly6#c-Bearian-20240921185300-Crisis_of_the_Roman_Republic" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:53, 21 September 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Bearian-20240921185300-Crisis_of_the_Roman_Republic"><span id="ooui-php-7" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button"><span class="oo-ui-iconElement-icon oo-ui-icon-share oo-ui-image-progressive"></span><span class="oo-ui-labelElement-label">Reply</span><span class="oo-ui-indicatorElement-indicator oo-ui-indicatorElement-noIndicator oo-ui-image-progressive"></span></a></span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Bearian-20240921185300-Crisis_of_the_Roman_Republic"></span> </p> </section><div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section section-heading" onclick="mfTempOpenSection(5)"><span class="indicator mf-icon mf-icon-expand mf-icon--small"></span><h2 id="JC_and_M-M" data-mw-thread-id="h-JC_and_M-M-20241016160800"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-JC_and_M-M-20241016160800"></span>JC and M-M<span data-mw-comment-end="h-JC_and_M-M-20241016160800"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"> <a role="button" href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Ifly6&action=edit&section=5" title="Edit section: JC and M-M" class="cdx-button cdx-button--size-large cdx-button--fake-button cdx-button--fake-button--enabled cdx-button--icon-only cdx-button--weight-quiet "> <span class="minerva-icon minerva-icon--edit"></span> <span>edit</span> </a> </span> <span id='ooui-php-36' class='ext-discussiontools-init-section-overflowMenuButton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-buttonWidget' data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonMenuSelectWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"ellipsis","data":{"itemConfigs":[{"id":"edit","data":{"id":"edit"},"icon":"edit","label":"Edit"}],"resourceLoaderModules":[]},"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-section-overflowMenuButton"]}'><a role='button' tabindex='0' rel='nofollow' class='oo-ui-buttonElement-button'><span class='oo-ui-iconElement-icon oo-ui-icon-ellipsis'></span><span class='oo-ui-labelElement-label'></span><span class='oo-ui-indicatorElement-indicator oo-ui-indicatorElement-noIndicator'></span></a></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"><span class='ext-discussiontools-init-section-metaitem ext-discussiontools-init-section-timestampLabel'>Latest comment: <a href="#c-Ifly6-20241030004500-NebY-20241018174400">1 month ago</a></span><span class='ext-discussiontools-init-section-metaitem ext-discussiontools-init-section-commentCountLabel'>7 comments</span><span class='ext-discussiontools-init-section-metaitem ext-discussiontools-init-section-authorCountLabel'>2 people in discussion</span></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div><section class="mf-section-5 collapsible-block" id="mf-section-5"> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-NebY-20241016160800-JC_and_M-M"></span>It took a while for print-on-demand, but at last I've finished Julius Caesar and the Roman People and it's a delight and a masterclass. If not for your citations and that discussion I'd have missed it, so thank you! <a href="/wiki/User:NebY" title="User:NebY">NebY</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:NebY" title="User talk:NebY">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Ifly6#c-NebY-20241016160800-JC_and_M-M" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:08, 16 October 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-NebY-20241016160800-JC_and_M-M"><span id="ooui-php-8" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button"><span class="oo-ui-iconElement-icon oo-ui-icon-share oo-ui-image-progressive"></span><span class="oo-ui-labelElement-label">Reply</span><span class="oo-ui-indicatorElement-indicator oo-ui-indicatorElement-noIndicator oo-ui-image-progressive"></span></a></span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-NebY-20241016160800-JC_and_M-M"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Ifly6-20241016183700-NebY-20241016160800"></span>I think it's a great book, especially when it gets into the details of what's going on in the procedural and political contexts of Caesar's first consulship and the opening of the civil war. I think MM's got the much stronger side of both arguments there. That said, I'm not as sanguine as MM is when it comes to Caesar's death. That many people (obviously not all) saw Caesar as a tyrant is, I think, unavoidable. MM's semi-apologism that citizens could distinguish freedom for people and for senators even if true isn't that relevant. I think the backlash had to do with the <i>act</i> rather than the aim. <a href="/wiki/User:Ifly6" title="User:Ifly6">Ifly6</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Ifly6#c-Ifly6-20241016183700-NebY-20241016160800" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:37, 16 October 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Ifly6-20241016183700-NebY-20241016160800"><span id="ooui-php-9" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button"><span class="oo-ui-iconElement-icon oo-ui-icon-share oo-ui-image-progressive"></span><span class="oo-ui-labelElement-label">Reply</span><span class="oo-ui-indicatorElement-indicator oo-ui-indicatorElement-noIndicator oo-ui-image-progressive"></span></a></span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Ifly6-20241016183700-NebY-20241016160800"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-NebY-20241018174400-Ifly6-20241016183700"></span>That's interesting; I was receiving a picture of Caesar as very much failing, while hurrying to make arrangements for his departure, to appreciate how badly he was managing his popular perception, and such attempts as he did make backfiring - rather reminding me of modern politicians who flourish in opposition but stumble in government. (I'd often been thinking how relevant <i>How Democracies Die</i> was, so that long discussion of it was very satisfying.) I didn't always follow MM's arguments, such as that the Senate forced Caesar's incursion, but I might on re-reading and I'm certainly totally open to blaming Cato for pretty much anything. Meanwhile MM's quite transformed my understanding of the People's role in the constitution of the late Republic, generally and in specifics like <i>contiones</i>. Ah, I could go on - but having appreciated MM's ateleogical rigour, I have <i>Hindsight in Greek and Roman History</i><a rel="nofollow" class="external autonumber" href="http://www.classicalpressofwales.co.uk/hindsight.htm">[1]</a> lined up! <a href="/wiki/User:NebY" title="User:NebY">NebY</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:NebY" title="User talk:NebY">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Ifly6#c-NebY-20241018174400-Ifly6-20241016183700" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:44, 18 October 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-NebY-20241018174400-Ifly6-20241016183700"><span id="ooui-php-10" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button"><span class="oo-ui-iconElement-icon oo-ui-icon-share oo-ui-image-progressive"></span><span class="oo-ui-labelElement-label">Reply</span><span class="oo-ui-indicatorElement-indicator oo-ui-indicatorElement-noIndicator oo-ui-image-progressive"></span></a></span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-NebY-20241018174400-Ifly6-20241016183700"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Ifly6-20241018224100-NebY-20241018174400"></span>Re MM and 49, see App'x 4, which discusses an essentially game-theoretic approach for why nobody was willing to give in. Frankly I think it's the most convincing explanation of the start of the war. Though, I wouldn't say it was "the senate" or "Caesar" which was to blame. They were stuck in a cycle of mistrust. Even Caesar's realisation that his position was essentially military intimidation and his following adjustment late in the crisis (Pompey should withdraw to Spain and Caesar keeps one legion in Illyricum) doesn't feel entirely sufficient.</dd> <dd>If you're Cato et al: this rogue governor has been trying to militarily intimidate you and rabble-rouse at Rome for the last year. Can you really believe him when he says he's going to give up all but one legion? Will he actually do it while you send away your only hope to defend Italy through <i>his</i> territory? You don't trust Caesar; assume bad faith and this turns from an offer into a ploy. "It's one of those ploys he's been playing on Gauls, Germans, and Britons for the last decade. Does he think we're stupid enough to fall for traps like those barbarians?" <a href="/wiki/User:Ifly6" title="User:Ifly6">Ifly6</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Ifly6#c-Ifly6-20241018224100-NebY-20241018174400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:41, 18 October 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Ifly6-20241018224100-NebY-20241018174400"><span id="ooui-php-11" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button"><span class="oo-ui-iconElement-icon oo-ui-icon-share oo-ui-image-progressive"></span><span class="oo-ui-labelElement-label">Reply</span><span class="oo-ui-indicatorElement-indicator oo-ui-indicatorElement-noIndicator oo-ui-image-progressive"></span></a></span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Ifly6-20241018224100-NebY-20241018174400"></span></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Ifly6-20241018230400-NebY-20241018174400"></span>Also about <i>Hindsight</i>. I think the fact that the republic fell in ... some year between 49 BC and AD 14 has hugely coloured historians' perspectives on it. Imagine a world where the republic did not fall from, say, the time of Cicero. What kind of things would have had to have happened? Certainly the middle and late 50s BC were not a great time for the republic but after 52 and the restoration of order these problems may have been on their way out. The new law on provincial assignments were just coming into effect and probably would have helped to stabilise politics.</dd> <dd>Part of the weakness of the Sullan republic was the death of essentially the entire <i>real</i> political elite in the Social and Sullan wars. Another decade and there would finally be enough ex-consuls to return to a state of normalcy and an end to the state of affairs where the darling of the senate is an ex-praetor (Cato lost his only bid for the consulship). Actually assigning someone to the forests and country lanes of Italy (derided in Caesar's first consulship as a ploy) really was something that was necessary given the mobs of bandits patrolling the peninsula; time enough would have aged such men out.</dd> <dd>The republic's fall was within the context of the disruptions of the Social and Sullan wars. If it had had more time for those disruptions to ease, if there weren't a Caesarian civil war, or maybe even if Antony had just bit it like Hirtius and Pansa during the <a href="/wiki/Mutina_war" class="mw-redirect" title="Mutina war">Mutina war</a>, we would probably be talking of a very different course for Roman history. Maybe the republic would even have fallen in the third century (amid plague and climate change) instead of in this last half century BC. Nobody knows. <a href="/wiki/User:Ifly6" title="User:Ifly6">Ifly6</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Ifly6#c-Ifly6-20241018230400-NebY-20241018174400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:04, 18 October 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Ifly6-20241018230400-NebY-20241018174400"><span id="ooui-php-12" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button"><span class="oo-ui-iconElement-icon oo-ui-icon-share oo-ui-image-progressive"></span><span class="oo-ui-labelElement-label">Reply</span><span class="oo-ui-indicatorElement-indicator oo-ui-indicatorElement-noIndicator oo-ui-image-progressive"></span></a></span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Ifly6-20241018230400-NebY-20241018174400"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-NebY-20241020223800-Ifly6-20241018230400"></span>Yes, the Prisoner's Dilemma appendix is very good, and the overall picture of escalating mistrust and inventive gambits (Cato, Bibulus) - so reminiscent of <i>How Democracies Die</i>. I wasn't fully persuaded in the main chapters that the preservation of Caesar's <i>dignitas </i>was so vital as to necessitate marching into Italy with legions but that might be my failure to read MM thoughtfully enough or to grasp Roman psychology, or reflect some pusillanimous mildness of my own. I don't really mind, because I can just be enthralled without having to make my mind up (cf Brian May "astronomy's much more fun when you're not an astronomer").</dd> <dd>And yes, that mistrust and gambiting was in part the product of the losses of the Social and Sullan wars, wiping out many of the gatekeepers and fatally interrupting the maintenance of the norms that are (<i>HDD</i> again) as or more important than the constitution. MM keeps his thought experiment brief, but if Caesar had survived to fight the Parthian campaign and Rome had experienced three years of not even fighting elections, we might be looking back on his <i>clementia</i> as a key component of the republic's recovery.</dd> <dd>I blame the meddling time-travellers. Octavian's survival is just taking the piss. <a href="/wiki/User:NebY" title="User:NebY">NebY</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:NebY" title="User talk:NebY">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Ifly6#c-NebY-20241020223800-Ifly6-20241018230400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:38, 20 October 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-NebY-20241020223800-Ifly6-20241018230400"><span id="ooui-php-13" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button"><span class="oo-ui-iconElement-icon oo-ui-icon-share oo-ui-image-progressive"></span><span class="oo-ui-labelElement-label">Reply</span><span class="oo-ui-indicatorElement-indicator oo-ui-indicatorElement-noIndicator oo-ui-image-progressive"></span></a></span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-NebY-20241020223800-Ifly6-20241018230400"></span></dd></dl></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Ifly6-20241030004500-NebY-20241018174400"></span>Again on <i>Hindsight</i>. The chapter by Powell, "Anticipating Octavian's failure: from Tauromenium to the death of Cleopatra", is some rather interesting reading. I think I would have wanted to see some chapters on the republic (like what if Lepidus had won in 79, Pompey was victorious in 48, etc) but of course there's probably insufficient information for a compelling counterfactual. <a href="/wiki/User:Ifly6" title="User:Ifly6">Ifly6</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Ifly6#c-Ifly6-20241030004500-NebY-20241018174400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:45, 30 October 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Ifly6-20241030004500-NebY-20241018174400"><span id="ooui-php-14" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" 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data-mw-comment-end="h-Feedback_request:_History_and_geography_request_for_comment-20241029213100"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"> <a role="button" href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Ifly6&action=edit&section=9" title="Edit section: Feedback request: History and geography request for comment" class="cdx-button cdx-button--size-large cdx-button--fake-button cdx-button--fake-button--enabled cdx-button--icon-only cdx-button--weight-quiet "> <span class="minerva-icon minerva-icon--edit"></span> <span>edit</span> </a> </span> <span id='ooui-php-40' class='ext-discussiontools-init-section-overflowMenuButton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-buttonWidget' data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonMenuSelectWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"ellipsis","data":{"itemConfigs":[{"id":"edit","data":{"id":"edit"},"icon":"edit","label":"Edit"}],"resourceLoaderModules":[]},"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-section-overflowMenuButton"]}'><a role='button' tabindex='0' rel='nofollow' class='oo-ui-buttonElement-button'><span class='oo-ui-iconElement-icon oo-ui-icon-ellipsis'></span><span class='oo-ui-labelElement-label'></span><span class='oo-ui-indicatorElement-indicator oo-ui-indicatorElement-noIndicator'></span></a></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"><span class='ext-discussiontools-init-section-metaitem ext-discussiontools-init-section-timestampLabel'>Latest comment: <a href="#c-Naypta-20241029213100-Feedback_request:_History_and_geography_request_for_comment">1 month ago</a></span><span class='ext-discussiontools-init-section-metaitem ext-discussiontools-init-section-commentCountLabel'>1 comment</span><span class='ext-discussiontools-init-section-metaitem ext-discussiontools-init-section-authorCountLabel'>1 person in discussion</span></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div><section class="mf-section-9 collapsible-block" id="mf-section-9"> <span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Naypta-20241029213100-Feedback_request:_History_and_geography_request_for_comment"></span><figure class="mw-halign-left" typeof="mw:File"><span><noscript><img alt="" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/39/Internet-group-chat.svg/48px-Internet-group-chat.svg.png" decoding="async" width="48" height="48" class="mw-file-element" data-file-width="48" data-file-height="48"></noscript><span class="lazy-image-placeholder" style="width: 48px;height: 48px;" data-src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/39/Internet-group-chat.svg/48px-Internet-group-chat.svg.png" data-alt="" data-width="48" data-height="48" data-srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/39/Internet-group-chat.svg/72px-Internet-group-chat.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/39/Internet-group-chat.svg/96px-Internet-group-chat.svg.png 2x" data-class="mw-file-element"> </span></span><figcaption></figcaption></figure><p>Your feedback is requested at <a href="/wiki/Talk:List_of_common_misconceptions#rfc_3305547" title="Talk:List of common misconceptions"><b>Talk:List of common misconceptions</b> on a "History and geography" request for comment</a>. Thank you for helping out!<br><small>You were randomly selected to receive this invitation from the list of <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:FRS" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:FRS">Feedback Request Service</a> subscribers. If you'd like not to receive these messages any more, you can opt out at any time by <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:FRS" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:FRS">removing your name</a>.</small> </p><div class="paragraphbreak" style="margin-top:0.5em"></div><p> Message delivered to you with love by <a href="/wiki/User:Yapperbot" title="User:Yapperbot">Yapperbot</a> :) | Is this wrong? Contact <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Naypta" title="User talk:Naypta">my bot operator</a>. | Sent at <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Ifly6#c-Naypta-20241029213100-Feedback_request:_History_and_geography_request_for_comment" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:31, 29 October 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Naypta-20241029213100-Feedback_request:_History_and_geography_request_for_comment"><span id="ooui-php-18" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button"><span class="oo-ui-iconElement-icon oo-ui-icon-share oo-ui-image-progressive"></span><span class="oo-ui-labelElement-label">Reply</span><span class="oo-ui-indicatorElement-indicator oo-ui-indicatorElement-noIndicator oo-ui-image-progressive"></span></a></span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Naypta-20241029213100-Feedback_request:_History_and_geography_request_for_comment"></span> </p></section><div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section section-heading" onclick="mfTempOpenSection(10)"><span class="indicator mf-icon mf-icon-expand mf-icon--small"></span><h2 id="George_Floyd_(American_football)" data-mw-thread-id="h-George_Floyd_(American_football)-20241109112400"><span id="George_Floyd_.28American_football.29"></span><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-George_Floyd_(American_football)-20241109112400"></span><a href="/wiki/George_Floyd_(American_football)" title="George Floyd (American football)">George Floyd (American football)</a><span data-mw-comment-end="h-George_Floyd_(American_football)-20241109112400"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"> <a role="button" href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Ifly6&action=edit&section=10" title="Edit section: George Floyd (American football)" class="cdx-button cdx-button--size-large cdx-button--fake-button cdx-button--fake-button--enabled cdx-button--icon-only cdx-button--weight-quiet "> <span class="minerva-icon minerva-icon--edit"></span> <span>edit</span> </a> </span> <span id='ooui-php-41' class='ext-discussiontools-init-section-overflowMenuButton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-buttonWidget' data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonMenuSelectWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"ellipsis","data":{"itemConfigs":[{"id":"edit","data":{"id":"edit"},"icon":"edit","label":"Edit"}],"resourceLoaderModules":[]},"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-section-overflowMenuButton"]}'><a role='button' tabindex='0' rel='nofollow' class='oo-ui-buttonElement-button'><span class='oo-ui-iconElement-icon oo-ui-icon-ellipsis'></span><span class='oo-ui-labelElement-label'></span><span class='oo-ui-indicatorElement-indicator oo-ui-indicatorElement-noIndicator'></span></a></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"><span class='ext-discussiontools-init-section-metaitem ext-discussiontools-init-section-timestampLabel'>Latest comment: <a href="#c-JeffSpaceman-20241109112400-George_Floyd_(American_football)">1 month ago</a></span><span class='ext-discussiontools-init-section-metaitem ext-discussiontools-init-section-commentCountLabel'>1 comment</span><span class='ext-discussiontools-init-section-metaitem ext-discussiontools-init-section-authorCountLabel'>1 person in discussion</span></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div><section class="mf-section-10 collapsible-block" id="mf-section-10"> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-JeffSpaceman-20241109112400-George_Floyd_(American_football)"></span>Hello, I see that you added a hatnote on this page. I reverted this, because of the guidelines present at <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:NAMB" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:NAMB">WP:NAMB</a>. It is generally not recommended to include a hatnote when there is a clear distinction in the article title, and given that <a href="/wiki/George_Floyd" title="George Floyd">George Floyd</a> does not redirect to this article, it does not belong on here. I just wanted to let you know that I reverted it as a courtesy, since I saw you add this hatnote, and I am positive you did this in good faith. Thank you. <a href="/wiki/User:JeffSpaceman" title="User:JeffSpaceman">JeffSpaceman</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:JeffSpaceman" title="User talk:JeffSpaceman">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Ifly6#c-JeffSpaceman-20241109112400-George_Floyd_(American_football)" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">11:24, 9 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-JeffSpaceman-20241109112400-George_Floyd_(American_football)"><span id="ooui-php-19" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button"><span class="oo-ui-iconElement-icon oo-ui-icon-share oo-ui-image-progressive"></span><span class="oo-ui-labelElement-label">Reply</span><span class="oo-ui-indicatorElement-indicator oo-ui-indicatorElement-noIndicator oo-ui-image-progressive"></span></a></span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-JeffSpaceman-20241109112400-George_Floyd_(American_football)"></span> </p> </section><div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section section-heading" onclick="mfTempOpenSection(11)"><span class="indicator mf-icon mf-icon-expand mf-icon--small"></span><h2 id="Reminder_to_participate_in_Wikipedia_research" data-mw-thread-id="h-Reminder_to_participate_in_Wikipedia_research-20241113004100"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Reminder_to_participate_in_Wikipedia_research-20241113004100"></span>Reminder to participate in Wikipedia research<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Reminder_to_participate_in_Wikipedia_research-20241113004100"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"> <a role="button" href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Ifly6&action=edit&section=11" title="Edit section: Reminder to participate in Wikipedia research" class="cdx-button cdx-button--size-large cdx-button--fake-button cdx-button--fake-button--enabled cdx-button--icon-only cdx-button--weight-quiet "> <span class="minerva-icon minerva-icon--edit"></span> <span>edit</span> </a> </span> <span id='ooui-php-42' class='ext-discussiontools-init-section-overflowMenuButton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-buttonWidget' data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonMenuSelectWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"ellipsis","data":{"itemConfigs":[{"id":"edit","data":{"id":"edit"},"icon":"edit","label":"Edit"}],"resourceLoaderModules":[]},"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-section-overflowMenuButton"]}'><a role='button' tabindex='0' rel='nofollow' class='oo-ui-buttonElement-button'><span class='oo-ui-iconElement-icon oo-ui-icon-ellipsis'></span><span class='oo-ui-labelElement-label'></span><span class='oo-ui-indicatorElement-indicator oo-ui-indicatorElement-noIndicator'></span></a></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"><span class='ext-discussiontools-init-section-metaitem ext-discussiontools-init-section-timestampLabel'>Latest comment: <a href="#c-BGerdemann_(WMF)-20241113004100-Reminder_to_participate_in_Wikipedia_research">1 month ago</a></span><span class='ext-discussiontools-init-section-metaitem ext-discussiontools-init-section-commentCountLabel'>1 comment</span><span class='ext-discussiontools-init-section-metaitem ext-discussiontools-init-section-authorCountLabel'>1 person in discussion</span></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div><section class="mf-section-11 collapsible-block" id="mf-section-11"> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-BGerdemann_(WMF)-20241113004100-Reminder_to_participate_in_Wikipedia_research"></span>Hello, </p><p>I recently invited you to take a survey about administration on Wikipedia. If you haven’t yet had a chance, there is still time to participate– we’d truly appreciate your feedback. The survey is anonymous and should take about 10-15 minutes to complete. You may read more about the study on its <a href="https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:MyLanguage/Research:Wikipedia_Administrator_Recruitment,_Retention,_and_Attrition" class="extiw" title="m:Special:MyLanguage/Research:Wikipedia Administrator Recruitment, Retention, and Attrition">Meta page</a> and view its <a href="https://foundation.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:MyLanguage/Legal:Administrator_Experiences_2024_Survey_Privacy_Statement" class="extiw" title="wmf:Special:MyLanguage/Legal:Administrator Experiences 2024 Survey Privacy Statement">privacy statement</a>. </p><p>Take the survey <b><a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://wikimediafoundation.limesurvey.net/962595?lang=en">here</a></b>. </p><p>Kind Regards, </p><p><a href="https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Special:MyLanguage/Wikimedia_Research" class="extiw" title="mw:Special:MyLanguage/Wikimedia Research">WMF Research Team</a> </p><p><bdi lang="en" dir="ltr"><a href="/wiki/User:BGerdemann_(WMF)" title="User:BGerdemann (WMF)">BGerdemann (WMF)</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:BGerdemann_(WMF)" title="User talk:BGerdemann (WMF)">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Ifly6#c-BGerdemann_(WMF)-20241113004100-Reminder_to_participate_in_Wikipedia_research" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:41, 13 November 2024 (UTC)</a> </bdi><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-BGerdemann_(WMF)-20241113004100-Reminder_to_participate_in_Wikipedia_research"><span id="ooui-php-20" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button"><span class="oo-ui-iconElement-icon oo-ui-icon-share oo-ui-image-progressive"></span><span class="oo-ui-labelElement-label">Reply</span><span class="oo-ui-indicatorElement-indicator oo-ui-indicatorElement-noIndicator oo-ui-image-progressive"></span></a></span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-BGerdemann_(WMF)-20241113004100-Reminder_to_participate_in_Wikipedia_research"></span> </p> </section><div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section section-heading" onclick="mfTempOpenSection(12)"><span class="indicator mf-icon mf-icon-expand mf-icon--small"></span><h2 id="Question_regarding_Primary_sources." data-mw-thread-id="h-Question_regarding_Primary_sources.-20241114221100"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Question_regarding_Primary_sources.-20241114221100"></span>Question regarding Primary sources.<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Question_regarding_Primary_sources.-20241114221100"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"> <a role="button" href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Ifly6&action=edit&section=12" title="Edit section: Question regarding Primary sources." class="cdx-button cdx-button--size-large cdx-button--fake-button cdx-button--fake-button--enabled cdx-button--icon-only cdx-button--weight-quiet "> <span class="minerva-icon minerva-icon--edit"></span> <span>edit</span> </a> </span> <span id='ooui-php-43' class='ext-discussiontools-init-section-overflowMenuButton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-buttonWidget' data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonMenuSelectWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"ellipsis","data":{"itemConfigs":[{"id":"edit","data":{"id":"edit"},"icon":"edit","label":"Edit"}],"resourceLoaderModules":[]},"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-section-overflowMenuButton"]}'><a role='button' tabindex='0' rel='nofollow' class='oo-ui-buttonElement-button'><span class='oo-ui-iconElement-icon oo-ui-icon-ellipsis'></span><span class='oo-ui-labelElement-label'></span><span class='oo-ui-indicatorElement-indicator oo-ui-indicatorElement-noIndicator'></span></a></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"><span class='ext-discussiontools-init-section-metaitem ext-discussiontools-init-section-timestampLabel'>Latest comment: <a href="#c-Ifly6-20241115001800-2600:4040:2C9D:3000:B10E:8A5E:5EA3:9C1A-20241114221100">1 month ago</a></span><span class='ext-discussiontools-init-section-metaitem ext-discussiontools-init-section-commentCountLabel'>2 comments</span><span class='ext-discussiontools-init-section-metaitem ext-discussiontools-init-section-authorCountLabel'>2 people in discussion</span></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div><section class="mf-section-12 collapsible-block" id="mf-section-12"> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-2600:4040:2C9D:3000:B10E:8A5E:5EA3:9C1A-20241114221100-Question_regarding_Primary_sources."></span>Just a question, can you actually read Latin or Greek? I'm noticing you seem to overly rely on secondary sources, and seem antagonistic towards the use and interpretation of primaries. Your opinions and narratives come off as incredibly forceful for ancient history with this in mind, modern social historian like really. It's a little jarring considering from what I can tell you have little background beyond being a hobbyist. <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/2600:4040:2C9D:3000:B10E:8A5E:5EA3:9C1A" title="Special:Contributions/2600:4040:2C9D:3000:B10E:8A5E:5EA3:9C1A">2600:4040:2C9D:3000:B10E:8A5E:5EA3:9C1A</a> (<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:2600:4040:2C9D:3000:B10E:8A5E:5EA3:9C1A&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User talk:2600:4040:2C9D:3000:B10E:8A5E:5EA3:9C1A (page does not exist)">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Ifly6#c-2600:4040:2C9D:3000:B10E:8A5E:5EA3:9C1A-20241114221100-Question_regarding_Primary_sources." class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:11, 14 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-2600:4040:2C9D:3000:B10E:8A5E:5EA3:9C1A-20241114221100-Question_regarding_Primary_sources."><span id="ooui-php-21" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button"><span class="oo-ui-iconElement-icon oo-ui-icon-share oo-ui-image-progressive"></span><span class="oo-ui-labelElement-label">Reply</span><span class="oo-ui-indicatorElement-indicator oo-ui-indicatorElement-noIndicator oo-ui-image-progressive"></span></a></span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-2600:4040:2C9D:3000:B10E:8A5E:5EA3:9C1A-20241114221100-Question_regarding_Primary_sources."></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Ifly6-20241115001800-2600:4040:2C9D:3000:B10E:8A5E:5EA3:9C1A-20241114221100"></span>My main positions with regard to the primary sources emerge from Wikipedia policy: <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:PRIMARY" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:PRIMARY">WP:PRIMARY</a> is foremost, which essentially makes it impossible for someone to <style data-mw-deduplicate="TemplateStyles:r1248585704">@media screen{html.skin-theme-clientpref-night .mw-parser-output .inline-quote-talk{color:#00B785}}@media screen and (prefers-color-scheme:dark){html.skin-theme-clientpref-os .mw-parser-output .inline-quote-talk{color:#00B785}}.mw-parser-output .inline-quote-talk{font-family:Georgia,"DejaVu Serif",serif;color:#008560;quotes:none}.mw-parser-output .inline-quote-talk-italic{font-family:inherit;font-style:italic}.mw-parser-output .inline-quote-talk-marks{quotes:"\"""\""}</style><q class="inline-quote-talk">overly rely on secondary sources</q>. The core question is <i>what should be added</i> and it is not <i>whatever some random person says or interprets [some source or whatever] to say</i>. Although I can read Latin (and don't read Greek) – such as when I read <i>PIR</i>, <i>CIL</i>, or pre-1990s <i>OCT</i> prefaces, all of which are secondary sources in terms of commentary, – language skills are <i>irrelevant</i> as to what Wikipedia sourcing policies require. <span style="font-size:85%;">(This is orthogonal to the language skills needed to understand what, say, <i>PIR</i> is saying about Cicero Minor, since Wikipedia does not discriminate against sources in other languages.)</span></dd> <dd>Re <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1248585704"><q class="inline-quote-talk">antagonistic towards... interpretation of primaries</q>, doing that is proscribed original research. If you are interested in doing interpretation of primary sources and putting them on Wikipedia, get them published first. Debating what Livy means when he discusses a <i>praetor maximus</i> and the like is suitable for <a href="/wiki/Historia:_Zeitschrift_f%C3%BCr_Alte_Geschichte" class="mw-redirect" title="Historia: Zeitschrift für Alte Geschichte"><i>Historia</i></a>. Wikipedia is here <i>only</i> to report on what others have said on it with due weight (itself debatable) for what those authors have said. <a href="/wiki/User:Ifly6" title="User:Ifly6">Ifly6</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Ifly6#c-Ifly6-20241115001800-2600:4040:2C9D:3000:B10E:8A5E:5EA3:9C1A-20241114221100" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:18, 15 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Ifly6-20241115001800-2600:4040:2C9D:3000:B10E:8A5E:5EA3:9C1A-20241114221100"><span id="ooui-php-22" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button"><span class="oo-ui-iconElement-icon oo-ui-icon-share oo-ui-image-progressive"></span><span class="oo-ui-labelElement-label">Reply</span><span class="oo-ui-indicatorElement-indicator oo-ui-indicatorElement-noIndicator oo-ui-image-progressive"></span></a></span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Ifly6-20241115001800-2600:4040:2C9D:3000:B10E:8A5E:5EA3:9C1A-20241114221100"></span></dd></dl> </section><div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section section-heading" onclick="mfTempOpenSection(13)"><span class="indicator mf-icon mf-icon-expand mf-icon--small"></span><h2 id="ArbCom_2024_Elections_voter_message" data-mw-thread-id="h-ArbCom_2024_Elections_voter_message-20241119002000"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-ArbCom_2024_Elections_voter_message-20241119002000"></span>ArbCom 2024 Elections voter message<span data-mw-comment-end="h-ArbCom_2024_Elections_voter_message-20241119002000"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"> <a role="button" href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Ifly6&action=edit&section=13" title="Edit section: ArbCom 2024 Elections voter message" class="cdx-button cdx-button--size-large cdx-button--fake-button cdx-button--fake-button--enabled cdx-button--icon-only cdx-button--weight-quiet "> <span class="minerva-icon minerva-icon--edit"></span> <span>edit</span> </a> </span> <span id='ooui-php-44' class='ext-discussiontools-init-section-overflowMenuButton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-buttonWidget' data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonMenuSelectWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"ellipsis","data":{"itemConfigs":[{"id":"edit","data":{"id":"edit"},"icon":"edit","label":"Edit"}],"resourceLoaderModules":[]},"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-section-overflowMenuButton"]}'><a role='button' tabindex='0' rel='nofollow' class='oo-ui-buttonElement-button'><span class='oo-ui-iconElement-icon oo-ui-icon-ellipsis'></span><span class='oo-ui-labelElement-label'></span><span class='oo-ui-indicatorElement-indicator oo-ui-indicatorElement-noIndicator'></span></a></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"><span class='ext-discussiontools-init-section-metaitem ext-discussiontools-init-section-timestampLabel'>Latest comment: <a href="#c-MediaWiki_message_delivery-20241119002000-ArbCom_2024_Elections_voter_message">29 days ago</a></span><span class='ext-discussiontools-init-section-metaitem ext-discussiontools-init-section-commentCountLabel'>1 comment</span><span class='ext-discussiontools-init-section-metaitem ext-discussiontools-init-section-authorCountLabel'>1 person in discussion</span></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div><section class="mf-section-13 collapsible-block" id="mf-section-13"> <div class="ivmbox" style="margin-bottom: 1em; border: 1px solid #a2a9b1; background-color: #fdf2d5; padding: 0.5em; display: flex; align-items: center;"> <div class="ivmbox-image noresize" style="padding-left:1px; padding-right:0.5em;"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-MediaWiki_message_delivery-20241119002000-ArbCom_2024_Elections_voter_message"></span><span typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Scale_of_justice_2.svg" class="mw-file-description"><noscript><img src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/0e/Scale_of_justice_2.svg/40px-Scale_of_justice_2.svg.png" decoding="async" width="40" height="41" class="mw-file-element" data-file-width="204" data-file-height="208"></noscript><span class="lazy-image-placeholder" style="width: 40px;height: 41px;" data-src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/0e/Scale_of_justice_2.svg/40px-Scale_of_justice_2.svg.png" data-width="40" data-height="41" data-srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/0e/Scale_of_justice_2.svg/60px-Scale_of_justice_2.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/0e/Scale_of_justice_2.svg/80px-Scale_of_justice_2.svg.png 2x" data-class="mw-file-element"> </span></a></span></div> <div class="ivmbox-text"> <p>Hello! Voting in the <b><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:ACE2024" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:ACE2024">2024 Arbitration Committee elections</a></b> is now open until 23:59 (UTC) on Monday, 2 December 2024. All <b><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration_Committee_Elections_December_2024#Election_timeline" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration Committee Elections December 2024">eligible users</a></b> are allowed to vote. Users with alternate accounts may only vote once. </p><p>The <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:ARBCOM" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:ARBCOM">Arbitration Committee</a> is the panel of editors responsible for conducting the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration">Wikipedia arbitration process</a>. It has the authority to impose binding solutions to disputes between editors, primarily for serious conduct disputes the community has been unable to resolve. 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If you no longer wish to receive these messages, you may add <code>{{<a href="/wiki/Template:NoACEMM" class="mw-redirect" title="Template:NoACEMM">NoACEMM</a>}}</code> to your user talk page. <small><a href="/wiki/User:MediaWiki_message_delivery" title="User:MediaWiki message delivery">MediaWiki message delivery</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:MediaWiki_message_delivery" title="User talk:MediaWiki message delivery">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Ifly6#c-MediaWiki_message_delivery-20241119002000-ArbCom_2024_Elections_voter_message" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:20, 19 November 2024 (UTC)</a></small><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-MediaWiki_message_delivery-20241119002000-ArbCom_2024_Elections_voter_message"><span id="ooui-php-23" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button"><span class="oo-ui-iconElement-icon oo-ui-icon-share oo-ui-image-progressive"></span><span class="oo-ui-labelElement-label">Reply</span><span class="oo-ui-indicatorElement-indicator oo-ui-indicatorElement-noIndicator oo-ui-image-progressive"></span></a></span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-MediaWiki_message_delivery-20241119002000-ArbCom_2024_Elections_voter_message"></span> </p> </div> </div> </section><div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section section-heading" onclick="mfTempOpenSection(14)"><span class="indicator mf-icon mf-icon-expand mf-icon--small"></span><h2 id="New_message_to_Ifly6" data-mw-thread-id="h-New_message_to_Ifly6-20241204140500"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-New_message_to_Ifly6-20241204140500"></span>New message to Ifly6<span data-mw-comment-end="h-New_message_to_Ifly6-20241204140500"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"> <a role="button" href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Ifly6&action=edit&section=14" title="Edit section: New message to Ifly6" class="cdx-button cdx-button--size-large cdx-button--fake-button cdx-button--fake-button--enabled cdx-button--icon-only cdx-button--weight-quiet "> <span class="minerva-icon minerva-icon--edit"></span> <span>edit</span> </a> </span> <span id='ooui-php-45' class='ext-discussiontools-init-section-overflowMenuButton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-buttonWidget' data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonMenuSelectWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"ellipsis","data":{"itemConfigs":[{"id":"edit","data":{"id":"edit"},"icon":"edit","label":"Edit"}],"resourceLoaderModules":[]},"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-section-overflowMenuButton"]}'><a role='button' tabindex='0' rel='nofollow' class='oo-ui-buttonElement-button'><span class='oo-ui-iconElement-icon oo-ui-icon-ellipsis'></span><span class='oo-ui-labelElement-label'></span><span class='oo-ui-indicatorElement-indicator oo-ui-indicatorElement-noIndicator'></span></a></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"><span class='ext-discussiontools-init-section-metaitem ext-discussiontools-init-section-timestampLabel'>Latest comment: <a href="#c-Remsense-20241204142400-Ifly6-20241204141800">13 days ago</a></span><span class='ext-discussiontools-init-section-metaitem ext-discussiontools-init-section-commentCountLabel'>3 comments</span><span class='ext-discussiontools-init-section-metaitem ext-discussiontools-init-section-authorCountLabel'>2 people in discussion</span></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div><section class="mf-section-14 collapsible-block" id="mf-section-14"> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Remsense-20241204140500-New_message_to_Ifly6"></span>I've no idea whether you'd know about this particular aspect of this particular period, but I'm curious whether you have any insight whether the characterization of the Severans as Berber is (1) mainstream, and (2) potentially worth a mention at all on Septimus's and Geta's articles, as an editor would like to add them and my feeling is no to both but I'm unsure. Thanks in advance! <span style="border-radius:2px;padding:3px;background:#1E816F"><a href="/wiki/User:Remsense" title="User:Remsense"><span style="color:#fff"><b>Remsense</b></span></a><span style="color:#fff"> ‥ </span><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Remsense" title="User talk:Remsense"><span lang="zh" style="color:#fff"><b>论</b></span></a></span> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Ifly6#c-Remsense-20241204140500-New_message_to_Ifly6" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">14:05, 4 December 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Remsense-20241204140500-New_message_to_Ifly6"><span id="ooui-php-24" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button"><span class="oo-ui-iconElement-icon oo-ui-icon-share oo-ui-image-progressive"></span><span class="oo-ui-labelElement-label">Reply</span><span class="oo-ui-indicatorElement-indicator oo-ui-indicatorElement-noIndicator oo-ui-image-progressive"></span></a></span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Remsense-20241204140500-New_message_to_Ifly6"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Ifly6-20241204141800-Remsense-20241204140500"></span>If by <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1248585704"><q class="inline-quote-talk">Berber</q> you mean Punic or North African, that's certainly mainstream. See OCD<sup>Online</sup> <a rel="nofollow" class="external free" href="https://oxfordre.com/classics/display/10.1093/acrefore/9780199381135.001.0001/acrefore-9780199381135-e-5836">https://oxfordre.com/classics/display/10.1093/acrefore/9780199381135.001.0001/acrefore-9780199381135-e-5836</a>, first sentence. As to the details of imperial biography, however, I lose interest just as the memory of the republic fades. <a href="/wiki/User:Ifly6" title="User:Ifly6">Ifly6</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Ifly6#c-Ifly6-20241204141800-Remsense-20241204140500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">14:18, 4 December 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Ifly6-20241204141800-Remsense-20241204140500"><span id="ooui-php-25" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button"><span class="oo-ui-iconElement-icon oo-ui-icon-share oo-ui-image-progressive"></span><span class="oo-ui-labelElement-label">Reply</span><span class="oo-ui-indicatorElement-indicator oo-ui-indicatorElement-noIndicator oo-ui-image-progressive"></span></a></span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Ifly6-20241204141800-Remsense-20241204140500"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Remsense-20241204142400-Ifly6-20241204141800"></span>Would you mind reposting this for posterity at <a href="/wiki/Talk:Geta_(emperor)" title="Talk:Geta (emperor)">Talk:Geta (emperor)</a>? Much appreciated in any case! <span style="border-radius:2px;padding:3px;background:#1E816F"><a href="/wiki/User:Remsense" title="User:Remsense"><span style="color:#fff"><b>Remsense</b></span></a><span style="color:#fff"> ‥ </span><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Remsense" title="User talk:Remsense"><span lang="zh" style="color:#fff"><b>论</b></span></a></span> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Ifly6#c-Remsense-20241204142400-Ifly6-20241204141800" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">14:24, 4 December 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Remsense-20241204142400-Ifly6-20241204141800"><span id="ooui-php-26" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button"><span class="oo-ui-iconElement-icon oo-ui-icon-share oo-ui-image-progressive"></span><span class="oo-ui-labelElement-label">Reply</span><span class="oo-ui-indicatorElement-indicator oo-ui-indicatorElement-noIndicator oo-ui-image-progressive"></span></a></span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Remsense-20241204142400-Ifly6-20241204141800"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl> </section><div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section section-heading" onclick="mfTempOpenSection(15)"><span class="indicator mf-icon mf-icon-expand mf-icon--small"></span><h2 id="First_Mithridatic_War" data-mw-thread-id="h-First_Mithridatic_War-20241213083900"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-First_Mithridatic_War-20241213083900"></span>First Mithridatic War<span data-mw-comment-end="h-First_Mithridatic_War-20241213083900"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"> <a role="button" href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Ifly6&action=edit&section=15" title="Edit section: First Mithridatic War" class="cdx-button cdx-button--size-large cdx-button--fake-button cdx-button--fake-button--enabled cdx-button--icon-only cdx-button--weight-quiet "> <span class="minerva-icon minerva-icon--edit"></span> <span>edit</span> </a> </span> <span id='ooui-php-46' class='ext-discussiontools-init-section-overflowMenuButton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-buttonWidget' data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonMenuSelectWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"ellipsis","data":{"itemConfigs":[{"id":"edit","data":{"id":"edit"},"icon":"edit","label":"Edit"}],"resourceLoaderModules":[]},"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-section-overflowMenuButton"]}'><a role='button' tabindex='0' rel='nofollow' class='oo-ui-buttonElement-button'><span class='oo-ui-iconElement-icon oo-ui-icon-ellipsis'></span><span class='oo-ui-labelElement-label'></span><span class='oo-ui-indicatorElement-indicator oo-ui-indicatorElement-noIndicator'></span></a></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"><span class='ext-discussiontools-init-section-metaitem ext-discussiontools-init-section-timestampLabel'>Latest comment: <a href="#c-Ifly6-20241213165500-T8612-20241213083900">4 days ago</a></span><span class='ext-discussiontools-init-section-metaitem ext-discussiontools-init-section-commentCountLabel'>2 comments</span><span class='ext-discussiontools-init-section-metaitem ext-discussiontools-init-section-authorCountLabel'>2 people in discussion</span></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div><section class="mf-section-15 collapsible-block" id="mf-section-15"> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-T8612-20241213083900-First_Mithridatic_War"></span>Hi, I've almost finished a rewrite of the page. Have you written anything yet? <a href="/wiki/User:T8612" title="User:T8612"><span style="color:yellow;background-color:navy">T8612</span></a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:T8612" title="User talk:T8612">(talk)</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Ifly6#c-T8612-20241213083900-First_Mithridatic_War" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">08:39, 13 December 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-T8612-20241213083900-First_Mithridatic_War"><span id="ooui-php-27" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button"><span class="oo-ui-iconElement-icon oo-ui-icon-share oo-ui-image-progressive"></span><span class="oo-ui-labelElement-label">Reply</span><span class="oo-ui-indicatorElement-indicator oo-ui-indicatorElement-noIndicator oo-ui-image-progressive"></span></a></span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-T8612-20241213083900-First_Mithridatic_War"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Ifly6-20241213165500-T8612-20241213083900"></span>I've not even started beyond putting in a few ILL requests for some background reading. If you're done already, then I suppose there's very little for me to do! <a href="/wiki/User:Ifly6" title="User:Ifly6">Ifly6</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Ifly6#c-Ifly6-20241213165500-T8612-20241213083900" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:55, 13 December 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Ifly6-20241213165500-T8612-20241213083900"><span id="ooui-php-28" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button"><span class="oo-ui-iconElement-icon oo-ui-icon-share oo-ui-image-progressive"></span><span class="oo-ui-labelElement-label">Reply</span><span class="oo-ui-indicatorElement-indicator oo-ui-indicatorElement-noIndicator oo-ui-image-progressive"></span></a></span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Ifly6-20241213165500-T8612-20241213083900"></span></dd></dl> </section><div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section section-heading" onclick="mfTempOpenSection(16)"><span class="indicator mf-icon mf-icon-expand mf-icon--small"></span><h2 id="Feedback_request:_History_and_geography_request_for_comment_2" data-mw-thread-id="h-Feedback_request:_History_and_geography_request_for_comment_2-20241215103000"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Feedback_request:_History_and_geography_request_for_comment_2-20241215103000"></span>Feedback request: History and geography request for comment<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Feedback_request:_History_and_geography_request_for_comment_2-20241215103000"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"> <a role="button" href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Ifly6&action=edit&section=16" title="Edit section: Feedback request: History and geography request for comment" class="cdx-button cdx-button--size-large cdx-button--fake-button cdx-button--fake-button--enabled cdx-button--icon-only cdx-button--weight-quiet "> <span class="minerva-icon minerva-icon--edit"></span> <span>edit</span> </a> </span> <span id='ooui-php-47' class='ext-discussiontools-init-section-overflowMenuButton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-buttonWidget' data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonMenuSelectWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"ellipsis","data":{"itemConfigs":[{"id":"edit","data":{"id":"edit"},"icon":"edit","label":"Edit"}],"resourceLoaderModules":[]},"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-section-overflowMenuButton"]}'><a role='button' tabindex='0' rel='nofollow' class='oo-ui-buttonElement-button'><span class='oo-ui-iconElement-icon oo-ui-icon-ellipsis'></span><span class='oo-ui-labelElement-label'></span><span class='oo-ui-indicatorElement-indicator oo-ui-indicatorElement-noIndicator'></span></a></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"><span class='ext-discussiontools-init-section-metaitem ext-discussiontools-init-section-timestampLabel'>Latest comment: <a href="#c-Naypta-20241215103000-Feedback_request:_History_and_geography_request_for_comment_2">2 days ago</a></span><span class='ext-discussiontools-init-section-metaitem ext-discussiontools-init-section-commentCountLabel'>1 comment</span><span class='ext-discussiontools-init-section-metaitem ext-discussiontools-init-section-authorCountLabel'>1 person in discussion</span></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div><section class="mf-section-16 collapsible-block" id="mf-section-16"> <span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Naypta-20241215103000-Feedback_request:_History_and_geography_request_for_comment_2"></span><figure class="mw-halign-left" typeof="mw:File"><span><noscript><img alt="" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/39/Internet-group-chat.svg/48px-Internet-group-chat.svg.png" decoding="async" width="48" height="48" class="mw-file-element" data-file-width="48" data-file-height="48"></noscript><span class="lazy-image-placeholder" style="width: 48px;height: 48px;" data-src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/39/Internet-group-chat.svg/48px-Internet-group-chat.svg.png" data-alt="" data-width="48" data-height="48" data-srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/39/Internet-group-chat.svg/72px-Internet-group-chat.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/39/Internet-group-chat.svg/96px-Internet-group-chat.svg.png 2x" data-class="mw-file-element"> </span></span><figcaption></figcaption></figure><p>Your feedback is requested at <a href="/wiki/Talk:Sabiha_G%C3%B6k%C3%A7en#rfc_BC60F4D" title="Talk:Sabiha Gökçen"><b>Talk:Sabiha Gökçen</b> on a "History and geography" request for comment</a>. Thank you for helping out!<br><small>You were randomly selected to receive this invitation from the list of <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:FRS" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:FRS">Feedback Request Service</a> subscribers. If you'd like not to receive these messages any more, you can opt out at any time by <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:FRS" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:FRS">removing your name</a>.</small> </p><div class="paragraphbreak" style="margin-top:0.5em"></div><p> Message delivered to you with love by <a href="/wiki/User:Yapperbot" title="User:Yapperbot">Yapperbot</a> :) | Is this wrong? Contact <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Naypta" title="User talk:Naypta">my bot operator</a>. | Sent at <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Ifly6#c-Naypta-20241215103000-Feedback_request:_History_and_geography_request_for_comment_2" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">10:30, 15 December 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Naypta-20241215103000-Feedback_request:_History_and_geography_request_for_comment_2"><span id="ooui-php-29" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button"><span class="oo-ui-iconElement-icon oo-ui-icon-share oo-ui-image-progressive"></span><span class="oo-ui-labelElement-label">Reply</span><span class="oo-ui-indicatorElement-indicator oo-ui-indicatorElement-noIndicator oo-ui-image-progressive"></span></a></span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Naypta-20241215103000-Feedback_request:_History_and_geography_request_for_comment_2"></span> </p></section><div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section section-heading" onclick="mfTempOpenSection(17)"><span class="indicator mf-icon mf-icon-expand mf-icon--small"></span><h2 id="Revision_/_reversion_revisited" data-mw-thread-id="h-Revision_/_reversion_revisited-20241217234300"><span id="Revision_.2F_reversion_revisited"></span><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Revision_/_reversion_revisited-20241217234300"></span>Revision / reversion revisited<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Revision_/_reversion_revisited-20241217234300"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"> <a role="button" href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Ifly6&action=edit&section=17" title="Edit section: Revision / reversion revisited" class="cdx-button cdx-button--size-large cdx-button--fake-button cdx-button--fake-button--enabled cdx-button--icon-only cdx-button--weight-quiet "> <span class="minerva-icon minerva-icon--edit"></span> <span>edit</span> </a> </span> <span id='ooui-php-48' class='ext-discussiontools-init-section-overflowMenuButton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-buttonWidget' data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonMenuSelectWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"ellipsis","data":{"itemConfigs":[{"id":"edit","data":{"id":"edit"},"icon":"edit","label":"Edit"}],"resourceLoaderModules":[]},"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-section-overflowMenuButton"]}'><a role='button' tabindex='0' rel='nofollow' class='oo-ui-buttonElement-button'><span class='oo-ui-iconElement-icon oo-ui-icon-ellipsis'></span><span class='oo-ui-labelElement-label'></span><span class='oo-ui-indicatorElement-indicator oo-ui-indicatorElement-noIndicator'></span></a></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"><span class='ext-discussiontools-init-section-metaitem ext-discussiontools-init-section-timestampLabel'>Latest comment: <a href="#c-Ifly6-20241218020700-2603:6010:100:6E85:20E2:4920:8804:978C-20241217234300">5 hours ago</a></span><span class='ext-discussiontools-init-section-metaitem ext-discussiontools-init-section-commentCountLabel'>2 comments</span><span class='ext-discussiontools-init-section-metaitem ext-discussiontools-init-section-authorCountLabel'>2 people in discussion</span></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div><section class="mf-section-17 collapsible-block" id="mf-section-17"> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-2603:6010:100:6E85:20E2:4920:8804:978C-20241217234300-Revision_/_reversion_revisited"></span>In the article on Cicero, I recently changed the clause "where more of his writings survived than any other Latin author" to "where more of his writings survived than any other Latin author's." Within a few days, you changed it back. I'm writing to revisit that revision / reversion with you. Let's see whether I can win you over to my revision. </p><p>The question that the sentence at issue aims to answer is, Which was there more of? Cicero's surviving writings or any other Latin author's surviving writings? </p><p>The question that it actually answers, by contrast, is, Which was there more of? Cicero's surviving writings or any other Latin author? </p><p>The present locution's syntactic illogic might be easier to recognize if you substitute a specific Latin author for the hypothetical one. It would make sense to compare Cicero's surviving writings to, for example, Virgil's surviving writings, and to say which one's surviving writings outnumber the other's. But it makes no sense to compare Cicero's surviving writings to Virgil himself, or, as the locution you have restored does, to "any other Latin author." </p><p>Forgive me, but I enjoy this sort of thing. Just as you have a hankering to share your insight into ancient Rome (Bravo, by the way!), I get fidgety about incorrect grammar, syntax, and usage. </p><p>If I've persuaded you, please say so. I will then joyously restore my revision. But if I haven't persuaded you, I promise to shut up and go away. <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/2603:6010:100:6E85:20E2:4920:8804:978C" title="Special:Contributions/2603:6010:100:6E85:20E2:4920:8804:978C">2603:6010:100:6E85:20E2:4920:8804:978C</a> (<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:2603:6010:100:6E85:20E2:4920:8804:978C&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User talk:2603:6010:100:6E85:20E2:4920:8804:978C (page does not exist)">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Ifly6#c-2603:6010:100:6E85:20E2:4920:8804:978C-20241217234300-Revision_/_reversion_revisited" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:43, 17 December 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-2603:6010:100:6E85:20E2:4920:8804:978C-20241217234300-Revision_/_reversion_revisited"><span id="ooui-php-30" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button"><span class="oo-ui-iconElement-icon oo-ui-icon-share oo-ui-image-progressive"></span><span class="oo-ui-labelElement-label">Reply</span><span class="oo-ui-indicatorElement-indicator oo-ui-indicatorElement-noIndicator oo-ui-image-progressive"></span></a></span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-2603:6010:100:6E85:20E2:4920:8804:978C-20241217234300-Revision_/_reversion_revisited"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Ifly6-20241218020700-2603:6010:100:6E85:20E2:4920:8804:978C-20241217234300"></span>I see. Restore your revision. <a href="/wiki/User:Ifly6" title="User:Ifly6">Ifly6</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Ifly6#c-Ifly6-20241218020700-2603:6010:100:6E85:20E2:4920:8804:978C-20241217234300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:07, 18 December 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Ifly6-20241218020700-2603:6010:100:6E85:20E2:4920:8804:978C-20241217234300"><span id="ooui-php-31" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" 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