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class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">1</span> <span>Wikipedians don't trust the interwiki community anymore?</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">18 comments</span> <ul id="toc-Wikipedians_don't_trust_the_interwiki_community_anymore?-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Fixing_erroneous_information_across_multiple_languages" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1 vector-toc-list-item-expanded"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Fixing_erroneous_information_across_multiple_languages"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">2</span> <span>Fixing erroneous information across multiple languages</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">3 comments</span> <ul id="toc-Fixing_erroneous_information_across_multiple_languages-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Wikipedia:2024_open_letter_to_the_Wikimedia_Foundation" class="vector-toc-list-item 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class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Sign_up_for_the_language_community_meeting_on_November_29th,_16:00_UTC" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1 vector-toc-list-item-expanded"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Sign_up_for_the_language_community_meeting_on_November_29th,_16:00_UTC"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">5</span> <span>Sign up for the language community meeting on November 29th, 16:00 UTC</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">1 comment</span> <ul id="toc-Sign_up_for_the_language_community_meeting_on_November_29th,_16:00_UTC-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> </ul> </div> </div> </nav> </div> </div> <div class="mw-content-container"> <main id="content" class="mw-body"> <header class="mw-body-header vector-page-titlebar"> <nav aria-label="Contents" class="vector-toc-landmark"> <div id="vector-page-titlebar-toc" class="vector-dropdown vector-page-titlebar-toc vector-button-flush-left" 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Please use the Preview button before saving.">edit</span></a></span> </div></div> </div> <style data-mw-deduplicate="TemplateStyles:r27299431">.mw-parser-output .autoarchive-resolved-section{margin-bottom:0.4em;border:1px solid var(--border-color-base,#a2a9b1);background-color:var(--background-color-neutral-subtle,#f8f9fa);color:var(--color-base,#202122)}.mw-parser-output .autoarchive-resolved-section td{width:100%}.mw-parser-output .autoarchive-resolved-section.ars-hide{display:none}.mw-parser-output .autoarchive-resolved-section .ars-icon{padding:2px;width:34px}.mw-parser-output .autoarchive-resolved-section .ars-tracking{display:none}.mw-parser-output .autoarchiv-erledigt-fehler strong{color:red}</style> <table id="autoarchiv-erledigt-baustein" class="autoarchive-resolved-section layouttemplate" dir="ltr" lang="en"> <tbody><tr> <td class="ars-icon"><figure class="mw-halign-center" typeof="mw:File"><span><img alt="" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/94/Filing_cabinet_icon.svg/30px-Filing_cabinet_icon.svg.png" decoding="async" width="30" height="30" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/94/Filing_cabinet_icon.svg/45px-Filing_cabinet_icon.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/94/Filing_cabinet_icon.svg/60px-Filing_cabinet_icon.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="128" data-file-height="128"/></span><figcaption></figcaption></figure></td> <td><a href="/wiki/User:SpBot" title="User:SpBot">SpBot</a> archives all sections tagged with <bdi lang="en"><code>{{<a href="/wiki/Special:MyLanguage/Template:Section_resolved" title="Special:MyLanguage/Template:Section resolved">Section resolved</a>|1=~~~~}}</code></bdi> and sections whose most recent comment is older than 30 days. </td> </tr> </tbody></table> <div style="clear:both;"></div> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Wikipedians_don't_trust_the_interwiki_community_anymore?" data-mw-thread-id="h-Wikipedians_don't_trust_the_interwiki_community_anymore?-20240815205100"><span id="Wikipedians_don.27t_trust_the_interwiki_community_anymore.3F"></span><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Wikipedians_don't_trust_the_interwiki_community_anymore?-20240815205100"></span>Wikipedians don't trust the interwiki community anymore?<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Wikipedians_don't_trust_the_interwiki_community_anymore?-20240815205100"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikimedia_Forum&action=edit&section=1" title="Edit section: Wikipedians don't trust the interwiki community anymore?"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"><span class='ext-discussiontools-init-section-metaitem ext-discussiontools-init-section-timestampLabel'>Latest comment: <a href="#c-Laitonix-20241120221400-Laitonix-20241112205300">2 days ago</a></span><span class='ext-discussiontools-init-section-metaitem ext-discussiontools-init-section-commentCountLabel'>18 comments</span><span class='ext-discussiontools-init-section-metaitem ext-discussiontools-init-section-authorCountLabel'>6 people in discussion</span></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Laitonix-20240815205100-Wikipedians_don't_trust_the_interwiki_community_anymore?"></span>I hope I found an appropriate page to discuss a growing issue I noticed quite a lot, especially in German Wikipedia. German Wikipedia acts as being totally isolated from the international community and other language versions of Wikipedia and assumes all except themselves are totally unreliable. Even the sources have to be from scholars born in their country, otherwise they cannot be trusted. This is knowledge nationalism! Which is insane because knowledge is universal. </p><p>Here is an example: </p><p>There was an attempt to create a similar article to <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/gaza_genocide" class="extiw" title="en:gaza genocide">en:gaza genocide</a> in german wikipedia: <a href="https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/V%C3%B6lkermord-Vorw%C3%BCrfe_gegen_Israel_(Gazakrieg_2023%E2%80%932024)" class="extiw" title="de:Völkermord-Vorwürfe gegen Israel (Gazakrieg 2023–2024)">de:Völkermord-Vorwürfe gegen Israel (Gazakrieg 2023–2024)</a>. It was just a word by word translation by user <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Babel_fish&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Babel fish (page does not exist)">User:Babel fish</a>. </p><p>And here is what happened: The article is nominated for deletion and almost all editors currently vote for deletion. The justification reads like this: the article uses mainly Anglo-American sources. They are not reliable and tendentious, if not antisemitic. The article will only be reliable, German wikipedians claim, if it is sourced on German scholars. Can you believe this? </p><p>There is no trust in the groundwork done by English Wikipedia, the hard work done by their English Wikipedia fellows is worth nothing to them. </p><p>Why can't wikipedians from different language version work together as one team, and appreciate each others hard work? </p><p>How can we foster knowledge exchange across borders and teach respect for knowledge written by scholars of a different country? <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Laitonix&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Laitonix (page does not exist)">Laitonix</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Laitonix" title="User talk:Laitonix">talk</a>) <a href="https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Forum#c-Laitonix-20240815205100-Wikipedians_don't_trust_the_interwiki_community_anymore?" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:51, 15 August 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Laitonix-20240815205100-Wikipedians_don't_trust_the_interwiki_community_anymore?"><span id="ooui-php-1" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button"><span class="oo-ui-iconElement-icon oo-ui-iconElement-noIcon oo-ui-image-progressive"></span><span class="oo-ui-labelElement-label">Reply</span><span class="oo-ui-indicatorElement-indicator oo-ui-indicatorElement-noIndicator oo-ui-image-progressive"></span></a></span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Laitonix-20240815205100-Wikipedians_don't_trust_the_interwiki_community_anymore?"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Pppery-20240816025000-Laitonix-20240815205100"></span>Individual Wikipedias are editorially independent. If the German Wikipedia wants not to trust certain sources, then it's their loss and there's nothing anyone outside the German Wikipedia can do about it. Meta only intervenes in exceptional circumstances which this isn't. <a href="/wiki/User:Pppery" title="User:Pppery">* Pppery *</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Pppery" title="User talk:Pppery"><sub style="color:#800000">it has begun</sub></a> <a href="https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Forum#c-Pppery-20240816025000-Laitonix-20240815205100" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:50, 16 August 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Pppery-20240816025000-Laitonix-20240815205100"><span id="ooui-php-2" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button"><span class="oo-ui-iconElement-icon oo-ui-iconElement-noIcon oo-ui-image-progressive"></span><span class="oo-ui-labelElement-label">Reply</span><span class="oo-ui-indicatorElement-indicator oo-ui-indicatorElement-noIndicator oo-ui-image-progressive"></span></a></span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Pppery-20240816025000-Laitonix-20240815205100"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Laitonix-20240816070500-Pppery-20240816025000"></span>I think in general, Wikimedia Foundation could try to foster the exchange between wikipedians e.g. with international meetups (and funding travel costs), try to build connections across language borders. At the moment, there are none. At least I can tell you this from German Wikipedia. They don't learn from each other. If Wikimedia Foundation with all its funding should have one job, then to unite different fragmented, local groups to leverage the combined "wisdom of the crowd".</dd> <dd>In this specific case, you could even raise the question at which point German Wikipedia becomes complicit in a genocide. Not by purpose but by ignorance of any other opinion from the outside world. German Wikipedia sees only one side. They try everything to make the Palestinian death toll appear less severe, pretend anti-palestinianism does not exist and the Gaza genocide accusations are just disinformation and should have no place to even mention in Wikipedia. Instead, the Israelian war against the Palestinian people is presented as the only logical consequence and no further questions asked. In return, this sways public opinion in Germany to e.g. increase support for exporting more and more weapons to Israel. So yes, the German knowledge isolation can have drastic real life consequences! <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Laitonix&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Laitonix (page does not exist)">Laitonix</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Laitonix" title="User talk:Laitonix">talk</a>) <a href="https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Forum#c-Laitonix-20240816070500-Pppery-20240816025000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">07:05, 16 August 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Laitonix-20240816070500-Pppery-20240816025000"><span id="ooui-php-3" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button"><span class="oo-ui-iconElement-icon oo-ui-iconElement-noIcon oo-ui-image-progressive"></span><span class="oo-ui-labelElement-label">Reply</span><span class="oo-ui-indicatorElement-indicator oo-ui-indicatorElement-noIndicator oo-ui-image-progressive"></span></a></span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Laitonix-20240816070500-Pppery-20240816025000"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Depotadore-20241012060500-Laitonix-20240816070500"></span>I talked to the person (Ambross07) who deleted the page on his talk page and he said "For me it's no question of pro or against Netanyahu, but a question of articles quality. The quality was very bad and not neutral, so delation of this article was the way to go." <a href="/wiki/User:Depotadore" title="User:Depotadore">Depotadore</a> (<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Depotadore&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User talk:Depotadore (page does not exist)">talk</a>) <a href="https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Forum#c-Depotadore-20241012060500-Laitonix-20240816070500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">06:05, 12 October 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Depotadore-20241012060500-Laitonix-20240816070500"><span id="ooui-php-4" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button"><span class="oo-ui-iconElement-icon oo-ui-iconElement-noIcon oo-ui-image-progressive"></span><span class="oo-ui-labelElement-label">Reply</span><span class="oo-ui-indicatorElement-indicator oo-ui-indicatorElement-noIndicator oo-ui-image-progressive"></span></a></span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Depotadore-20241012060500-Laitonix-20240816070500"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Laitonix-20241012094200-Depotadore-20241012060500"></span>That's just an excuse. The article was a very close translation of the English Wikipedia article. Do you really think, all the hundreds of Wikipedians who wrote the English article over several years, did such a bad job that in the end it justifies deletion from Wikipedia? I don't think so. They make up excuses to not be held accountable. Look beyond the surface. <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Laitonix&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Laitonix (page does not exist)">Laitonix</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Laitonix" title="User talk:Laitonix">talk</a>) <a href="https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Forum#c-Laitonix-20241012094200-Depotadore-20241012060500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">09:42, 12 October 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Laitonix-20241012094200-Depotadore-20241012060500"><span id="ooui-php-5" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button"><span class="oo-ui-iconElement-icon oo-ui-iconElement-noIcon oo-ui-image-progressive"></span><span class="oo-ui-labelElement-label">Reply</span><span class="oo-ui-indicatorElement-indicator oo-ui-indicatorElement-noIndicator oo-ui-image-progressive"></span></a></span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Laitonix-20241012094200-Depotadore-20241012060500"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Depotadore-20241001163700-Laitonix-20240815205100"></span>0% logical sense <a href="/wiki/User:Depotadore" title="User:Depotadore">Depotadore</a> (<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Depotadore&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User talk:Depotadore (page does not exist)">talk</a>) <a href="https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Forum#c-Depotadore-20241001163700-Laitonix-20240815205100" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:37, 1 October 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Depotadore-20241001163700-Laitonix-20240815205100"><span id="ooui-php-6" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button"><span class="oo-ui-iconElement-icon oo-ui-iconElement-noIcon oo-ui-image-progressive"></span><span class="oo-ui-labelElement-label">Reply</span><span class="oo-ui-indicatorElement-indicator oo-ui-indicatorElement-noIndicator oo-ui-image-progressive"></span></a></span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Depotadore-20241001163700-Laitonix-20240815205100"></span></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-110.37.98.127-20241017032700-Laitonix-20240815205100"></span>It’s understandable that trust issues might arise between Wikipedians and the interwiki community, especially when cross-wiki collaboration brings in different standards, guidelines, and cultural perspectives. A similar dynamic can be observed with <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://therutificador.cl/">Rutificador Chile</a>, a tool that provides easy access to Chilean citizens' RUT (Rol Único Tributario) numbers. This tool sparked debates around data privacy and ethics, as open access to personal information created concerns among users despite the goal of transparency.</dd> <dd>Much like the tension between Wikipedians and the interwiki community, Rutificador’s existence highlights the delicate balance between making information accessible and ensuring it’s used responsibly. Both the Wikipedia ecosystem and Rutificador Chile aim to democratize information but face challenges when that information isn't handled in ways aligned with the community’s expectations and ethical standards.</dd> <dd>In Wikipedia’s case, interwiki communities may prioritize linking and sharing across languages, while Wikipedians often emphasize editorial control, neutrality, and accuracy—leading to friction. Similarly, while Rutificador offers data transparency, it has triggered concerns about how easily accessible information might be misused, eroding public trust.</dd> <dd>Building trust in both scenarios requires open dialogue, better alignment of goals, and clear guidelines for responsible use of shared information. Wikipedians and interwiki communities, much like users and developers of tools like Rutificador, must find common ground to ensure that openness doesn’t compromise ethics and that transparency strengthens rather than weakens trust. <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/110.37.98.127" title="Special:Contributions/110.37.98.127">110.37.98.127</a> <a href="https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Forum#c-110.37.98.127-20241017032700-Laitonix-20240815205100" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">03:27, 17 October 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-110.37.98.127-20241017032700-Laitonix-20240815205100"><span id="ooui-php-7" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button"><span class="oo-ui-iconElement-icon oo-ui-iconElement-noIcon oo-ui-image-progressive"></span><span class="oo-ui-labelElement-label">Reply</span><span class="oo-ui-indicatorElement-indicator oo-ui-indicatorElement-noIndicator oo-ui-image-progressive"></span></a></span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-110.37.98.127-20241017032700-Laitonix-20240815205100"></span></dd></dl> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Laitonix-20240823231200-Wikipedians_don't_trust_the_interwiki_community_anymore?"></span>Outcome: The article has now indeed been deleted. German Wikipedia indeed ignored the international scientific debate about the gaza genocide and just followed the narrative of the Israelien goverment. That's the state of German Wikipedia in 2024: their biased opinion is worth more than scientific sources. Keep an eye on what's happening in German Wikipedia, and always remember: Germany was on the wrong side of the history two times, and there is little evidence that it will be on the right side of history this time: <i>Again</i> Germans are indirectly involved in a genocide. English Wikipedia already has a chapter about it: <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaza_genocide#German_complicity">German complicity in the gaza genocide</a>. It's time for the international community to protect the integrity of Wikipedia, especially in Germany. --<a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Laitonix&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Laitonix (page does not exist)">Laitonix</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Laitonix" title="User talk:Laitonix">talk</a>) <a href="https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Forum#c-Laitonix-20240823231200-Wikipedians_don't_trust_the_interwiki_community_anymore?" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:12, 23 August 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Laitonix-20240823231200-Wikipedians_don't_trust_the_interwiki_community_anymore?"><span id="ooui-php-8" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button"><span class="oo-ui-iconElement-icon oo-ui-iconElement-noIcon oo-ui-image-progressive"></span><span class="oo-ui-labelElement-label">Reply</span><span class="oo-ui-indicatorElement-indicator oo-ui-indicatorElement-noIndicator oo-ui-image-progressive"></span></a></span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Laitonix-20240823231200-Wikipedians_don't_trust_the_interwiki_community_anymore?"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-HirnSpuk-20240911185700-Laitonix-20240823231200"></span>As a german native speaker who checked the process I'd like to offer a second opinion: I also don't like how things are handled in wp:de from time to time, but there are some statements here, that I cannot leave without a comment. I directly refuse the comment: "<i>That's the state of German Wikipedia in 2024: their biased opinion is worth more than scientific sources. Keep an eye on what's happening in German Wikipedia, and always remember: Germany was on the wrong side of the history two times, and there is little evidence that it will be on the right side of history this time</i>"</dd> <dd>Regardless of the work that has been done (and ignored via a deletion): german wikipedia acknowledes the genocide-accusations, compare <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/de:Krieg_in_Israel_und_Gaza_seit_2023#Vorwürfe_wegen_Kriegsverbrechen_und_Völkermord" class="extiw" title="w:de:Krieg in Israel und Gaza seit 2023">w:de:Krieg_in_Israel_und_Gaza_seit_2023#Vorwürfe_wegen_Kriegsverbrechen_und_Völkermord</a> there is even a paragraph <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/de:Krieg_in_Israel_und_Gaza_seit_2023#Klage_Nicaraguas_gegen_Deutschland" class="extiw" title="w:de:Krieg in Israel und Gaza seit 2023">w:de:Krieg_in_Israel_und_Gaza_seit_2023#Klage_Nicaraguas_gegen_Deutschland</a>, which acknowledges the accusations against germany. I would support single articles, but as far as I know the german wikipedia, this is not their way! There are voices that argued: "keep the article" with different reasons and also with acknowledgement for non-german sources. The Opinion "The article will only be reliable, German wikipedians claim, if it is sourced on German scholars" is to be considered wrong from my point of view, because it was clearly asked to "<b>add</b> german sources" (compare <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/de:Spezial:Diff/247666285/247666290" class="extiw" title="w:de:Spezial:Diff/247666285/247666290">w:de:Spezial:Diff/247666285/247666290</a>) before the initial posting here.</dd> <dd>And to provide the reasoning for the deletion in a translation: "<i>There are undoubtedly accusations of genocide, and the topic is fundamentally relevant. However, the present attempt is more than inadequate. The overflowing article reproduces all possible quotes and thus compiles more of a list of accusations. The discourse on the topic is not presented, the responses to the accusations (and by that I do not mean counter-accusations in the sense of "but Hamas did it too") remain unmentioned. However, the neutral presentation is not to be found in the complete and uncommented repetition of all statements against Israel, but rather in the reproduction of the refutations and in the classification based on scientific analysis of the events. Restructuring the article accordingly is more complex than rewriting it properly. It is therefore deleted due to the clear violation of the principle of a neutral standpoint and blatant quality defects.</i>" (feel free to check the translation yourself: <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/de:Spezial:Diff/247964888/247968857" class="extiw" title="w:de:Spezial:Diff/247964888/247968857">w:de:Spezial:Diff/247964888/247968857</a>). Regards <a href="/wiki/User:HirnSpuk" title="User:HirnSpuk">HirnSpuk</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:HirnSpuk" title="User talk:HirnSpuk">talk</a>) <a href="https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Forum#c-HirnSpuk-20240911185700-Laitonix-20240823231200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:57, 11 September 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-HirnSpuk-20240911185700-Laitonix-20240823231200"><span id="ooui-php-9" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button"><span class="oo-ui-iconElement-icon oo-ui-iconElement-noIcon oo-ui-image-progressive"></span><span class="oo-ui-labelElement-label">Reply</span><span class="oo-ui-indicatorElement-indicator oo-ui-indicatorElement-noIndicator oo-ui-image-progressive"></span></a></span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-HirnSpuk-20240911185700-Laitonix-20240823231200"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Laitonix-20240915194700-HirnSpuk-20240911185700"></span>They believed that US sources are by default tendentious. Here is the translation from the initial request: <i>"The article also largely reflects a US-American (or English-language) background and does not include a single German-language source, so it must obviously be tendentious </i>"</dd> <dd>They believe that everything from the outside world is tendentious. ...well, we have had such a mindset several decades ago. It's not good. It should not matter from which country a scientific paper comes from. By making the nationality of the scholars an issue, german wikipedia follows a dark route and violate NPOV very clearly.</dd> <dd>Sure, they asked to "add" german sources, not replace everything with only german scholars. That would be too obvious. Instead, their strategy is to add as many pro-Israelian german sources as possible such that the reader must get the impression that german scholars represent the majority opinion, and the international sources warning about an ongoing genocide are only a blasphemous minority. An article that does not follow this strategy and instead truly reports that the international scholars are actually the majority, must therefore be deleted as quickly as possible. That's what we saw. <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Laitonix&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Laitonix (page does not exist)">Laitonix</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Laitonix" title="User talk:Laitonix">talk</a>) <a href="https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Forum#c-Laitonix-20240915194700-HirnSpuk-20240911185700" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:47, 15 September 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Laitonix-20240915194700-HirnSpuk-20240911185700"><span id="ooui-php-10" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button"><span class="oo-ui-iconElement-icon oo-ui-iconElement-noIcon oo-ui-image-progressive"></span><span class="oo-ui-labelElement-label">Reply</span><span class="oo-ui-indicatorElement-indicator oo-ui-indicatorElement-noIndicator oo-ui-image-progressive"></span></a></span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Laitonix-20240915194700-HirnSpuk-20240911185700"></span></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Laitonix-20241010171600-HirnSpuk-20240911185700"></span>The problem is actually much deeper than just the one article I mentioned. Every article covering Israel or the middle east is completely aligned with the Netanjahu government position on the issue. There is no neutral point of view. You can almost always just do a side by side comparison with the English Wikipedia to reveal the massive anti-palestinian bias exiting in German Wikipedia. --<a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Laitonix&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Laitonix (page does not exist)">Laitonix</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Laitonix" title="User talk:Laitonix">talk</a>) <a href="https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Forum#c-Laitonix-20241010171600-HirnSpuk-20240911185700" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:16, 10 October 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Laitonix-20241010171600-HirnSpuk-20240911185700"><span id="ooui-php-11" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button"><span class="oo-ui-iconElement-icon oo-ui-iconElement-noIcon oo-ui-image-progressive"></span><span class="oo-ui-labelElement-label">Reply</span><span class="oo-ui-indicatorElement-indicator oo-ui-indicatorElement-noIndicator oo-ui-image-progressive"></span></a></span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Laitonix-20241010171600-HirnSpuk-20240911185700"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Depotadore-20241011153700-Laitonix-20241010171600"></span>They break the five basic pillars of Wikipedia which includes "Wikipedia is written from a neutral point of view" and "Wikipedia's editors should treat each other with respect and civility"☝️. <a href="/wiki/User:Depotadore" title="User:Depotadore">Depotadore</a> (<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Depotadore&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User talk:Depotadore (page does not exist)">talk</a>) <a href="https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Forum#c-Depotadore-20241011153700-Laitonix-20241010171600" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:37, 11 October 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Depotadore-20241011153700-Laitonix-20241010171600"><span id="ooui-php-12" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button"><span class="oo-ui-iconElement-icon oo-ui-iconElement-noIcon oo-ui-image-progressive"></span><span class="oo-ui-labelElement-label">Reply</span><span class="oo-ui-indicatorElement-indicator oo-ui-indicatorElement-noIndicator oo-ui-image-progressive"></span></a></span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Depotadore-20241011153700-Laitonix-20241010171600"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-MarcGarver-20241011171400-Laitonix-20240823231200"></span>The preference for sources that are in the language of the project is not in itself unusual. A similar preference can be seen on the English Wikipedia and it is a natural preference because it is much easier to verify a source that is in the same language as that of the contributors. It is probably less problematic on the English language projects because so much scientific1 literature is published in English and / or translated into English. Anyway, if the issue for some contributors to the German Wikipedia is they don't trust the US (and / or UK) media, then the answer may be to use other sources of which there are plenty. The French media is full of commentary on the conflict that does not reflect the US view and if someone is truly biased, as opposed to just distrusting the US view, then it will quickly become apparent to other contributors when they try and argue away the French, Dutch, Swiss and Swedes as also being tendentious. <a href="/wiki/User:MarcGarver" title="User:MarcGarver">MarcGarver</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:MarcGarver" title="User talk:MarcGarver">talk</a>) <a href="https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Forum#c-MarcGarver-20241011171400-Laitonix-20240823231200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:14, 11 October 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-MarcGarver-20241011171400-Laitonix-20240823231200"><span id="ooui-php-13" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button"><span class="oo-ui-iconElement-icon oo-ui-iconElement-noIcon oo-ui-image-progressive"></span><span class="oo-ui-labelElement-label">Reply</span><span class="oo-ui-indicatorElement-indicator oo-ui-indicatorElement-noIndicator oo-ui-image-progressive"></span></a></span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-MarcGarver-20241011171400-Laitonix-20240823231200"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Laitonix-20241012095300-MarcGarver-20241011171400"></span>That's not how it works. First of all, almost all editors showing some empathy for Palestinian civilians have been blocked. After the article was deleted, there was a tribunal and everyone who was in favor of keeping the Gaza genocide article was in trouble; most of them got blocked. I was blocked a while ago because I contributed to the German version of <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Palestinianism" class="extiw" title="en:Anti-Palestinianism">en:Anti-Palestinianism</a> (the article was deleted as well) So most editors are already afraid to even question the official position of the Netanyahu goverment.</dd> <dd>And it's not that they don't trust only US sources in particular. Every source that is not from a pro-Israel pro-Netanyahu (german) journalist or scholar is viewed with a lot of suspicion.</dd> <dd>They created their own filter bubble where only their opinion is valid, everything else they try to keep out with all means possible. <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Laitonix&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Laitonix (page does not exist)">Laitonix</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Laitonix" title="User talk:Laitonix">talk</a>) <a href="https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Forum#c-Laitonix-20241012095300-MarcGarver-20241011171400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">09:53, 12 October 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Laitonix-20241012095300-MarcGarver-20241011171400"><span id="ooui-php-14" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button"><span class="oo-ui-iconElement-icon oo-ui-iconElement-noIcon oo-ui-image-progressive"></span><span class="oo-ui-labelElement-label">Reply</span><span class="oo-ui-indicatorElement-indicator oo-ui-indicatorElement-noIndicator oo-ui-image-progressive"></span></a></span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Laitonix-20241012095300-MarcGarver-20241011171400"></span></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Laitonix-20241012100000-MarcGarver-20241011171400"></span>One other example is <a href="https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisemitische_Vorf%C3%A4lle_w%C3%A4hrend_des_Krieges_in_Israel_und_Gaza" class="extiw" title="de:Antisemitische Vorfälle während des Krieges in Israel und Gaza">de:Antisemitische Vorfälle während des Krieges in Israel und Gaza</a> ("Antisemitism during the Israel–Hamas war"). In this article, they list everyone protesting against Israel, Netanyahu, war crimes etc. All of that is framed as antisemitic. They don't differentiate between legitimate critique and real antisemitism. When you then question this, you get blocked and your post from the talk page is deleted. Example: <a class="external text" href="https://de.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Diskussion:Antisemitische_Vorf%C3%A4lle_w%C3%A4hrend_des_Krieges_in_Israel_und_Gaza&diff=prev&oldid=248719833">Censorship</a>, <a class="external text" href="https://de.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Spezial:Logbuch&logid=138463444">blocked author</a> (and one last bonus fact: the equivalent article "Anti-Palestinianism during the Israel–Hamas war" was of course deleted as well) <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Laitonix&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Laitonix (page does not exist)">Laitonix</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Laitonix" title="User talk:Laitonix">talk</a>) <a href="https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Forum#c-Laitonix-20241012100000-MarcGarver-20241011171400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">10:00, 12 October 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Laitonix-20241012100000-MarcGarver-20241011171400"><span id="ooui-php-15" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button"><span class="oo-ui-iconElement-icon oo-ui-iconElement-noIcon oo-ui-image-progressive"></span><span class="oo-ui-labelElement-label">Reply</span><span class="oo-ui-indicatorElement-indicator oo-ui-indicatorElement-noIndicator oo-ui-image-progressive"></span></a></span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Laitonix-20241012100000-MarcGarver-20241011171400"></span></dd></dl></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Laitonix-20241015161000-Laitonix-20240823231200"></span>There is one more thing that really should concern you. As I posted earlier, they block and censor everyone critical of Israel. But what happens when, let's say, someone posts a really hateful text <i>against Palestinians</i>? Well, we now have the answer: nothing. You even get a lot of praise and protection for that. Here is the case: one person posted things like <i>"There is also no problem with hunger in Gaza. The people there are doing well, far too well for what they have done."</i> (a real quote, see <a class="external autonumber" href="https://de.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Diskussion:Greta_Thunberg&diff=prev&oldid=249416213">[1]</a>) No problem to post that in German Wikipedia at all. Later, she regret what she posted and wanted it to be deleted. (Kudos for this one person!) But surprise: Her removal was reverted and she was blocked because of "Edit-War" (trying to delete her own hateful post). Not because of the initial hateful post, no, no, but because she wanted to <i>withdraw</i> her post! They like the post so much that they wanted to keep it even against the person's will. Proof: <a class="external autonumber" href="https://de.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Vandalismusmeldung&diff=prev&oldid=249451620">[2]</a> That was the motivation for blocking her. Translated: "<b>Removed</b> third opinion [...]. In addition, this also via Editwar." Again, what she wanted to be removed was this: <a class="external autonumber" href="https://de.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Diskussion:Greta_Thunberg&diff=prev&oldid=249416213">[3]</a> (her own hateful post) Can you believe this?</dd> <dd>In German Wikipedia there is a massive problem with Anti-Palestinian sentiment. Posting hate-speech against Palestinians: no problem. Posting critique on Israels war: direct block. This in turn leads to massively biased articles. And it should be something the international community should be <u>very, very concerned about</u>. --<a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Laitonix&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Laitonix (page does not exist)">Laitonix</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Laitonix" title="User talk:Laitonix">talk</a>) <a href="https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Forum#c-Laitonix-20241015161000-Laitonix-20240823231200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:10, 15 October 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Laitonix-20241015161000-Laitonix-20240823231200"><span id="ooui-php-16" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button"><span class="oo-ui-iconElement-icon oo-ui-iconElement-noIcon oo-ui-image-progressive"></span><span class="oo-ui-labelElement-label">Reply</span><span class="oo-ui-indicatorElement-indicator oo-ui-indicatorElement-noIndicator oo-ui-image-progressive"></span></a></span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Laitonix-20241015161000-Laitonix-20240823231200"></span></dd></dl> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Laitonix-20241112205300-Wikipedians_don't_trust_the_interwiki_community_anymore?"></span>Latest news: Another article is on the trail for deletion. This time: <a href="https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ausschreitungen_in_Amsterdam_im_November_2024" class="extiw" title="de:Ausschreitungen in Amsterdam im November 2024">de:Ausschreitungen in Amsterdam im November 2024</a> (from <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/November_2024_Amsterdam_attacks" class="extiw" title="en:November 2024 Amsterdam attacks">en:November 2024 Amsterdam attacks</a>). Why do they want to have the article deleted, you may ask? Well, because some Israelian fans shouted racist slurs before the attacks and this doesn't fit so nicely into their narrative of the Israelis as innocent victims. And because they cannot remove that information from the article (they tried, but other users insist it should be included, luckily!), they now try to delete the article completely. They cannot allow that any article says something negative about Israelian people. Because all Israelis are decent and ethical people! Any article which says otherwise must be deleted, and the information must be eradicated from public knowledge.<br/> Ideological bias outweighs freedom of information. And of course, users have been blocked. Everyone in favor of the article is threatened with a ban. Even users registered in 2018, having hundreds of contributions. Some users are blocked because they are Moslem. --<a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Laitonix&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Laitonix (page does not exist)">Laitonix</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Laitonix" title="User talk:Laitonix">talk</a>) <a href="https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Forum#c-Laitonix-20241112205300-Wikipedians_don't_trust_the_interwiki_community_anymore?" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:53, 12 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Laitonix-20241112205300-Wikipedians_don't_trust_the_interwiki_community_anymore?"><span id="ooui-php-17" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button"><span class="oo-ui-iconElement-icon oo-ui-iconElement-noIcon oo-ui-image-progressive"></span><span class="oo-ui-labelElement-label">Reply</span><span class="oo-ui-indicatorElement-indicator oo-ui-indicatorElement-noIndicator oo-ui-image-progressive"></span></a></span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Laitonix-20241112205300-Wikipedians_don't_trust_the_interwiki_community_anymore?"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Laitonix-20241120221400-Laitonix-20241112205300"></span>Oh, I just noticed the article was not deleted. This time, a lot of sane authors actually worked to improve the article. Finally, regular users notice what's going on and speak up. Not all hope is lost.</dd> <dd>However, they now try to double down on user blocks. They even try to establish a kind of collective punishment for all authors of Arab origin. <a class="external text" href="https://de.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Sperrpr%C3%BCfung&diff=prev&oldid=250518882">Here is someone</a> suggesting that an Arab user should be blocked until Hamas stops their terror attacks, only because the user is Arab. Making him responsible for the actions of the Hamas only because he is Arab. He said quote: "[lock him up] Let's say until Hamas, Hezbollah and the other guys on the scene renounce terror."</dd> <dd>So the situation is still very concerning, should be monitored further. <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Laitonix&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Laitonix (page does not exist)">Laitonix</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Laitonix" title="User talk:Laitonix">talk</a>) <a href="https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Forum#c-Laitonix-20241120221400-Laitonix-20241112205300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:14, 20 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Laitonix-20241120221400-Laitonix-20241112205300"><span id="ooui-php-18" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button"><span class="oo-ui-iconElement-icon oo-ui-iconElement-noIcon oo-ui-image-progressive"></span><span class="oo-ui-labelElement-label">Reply</span><span class="oo-ui-indicatorElement-indicator oo-ui-indicatorElement-noIndicator oo-ui-image-progressive"></span></a></span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Laitonix-20241120221400-Laitonix-20241112205300"></span></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Fixing_erroneous_information_across_multiple_languages" data-mw-thread-id="h-Fixing_erroneous_information_across_multiple_languages-20241025121700"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Fixing_erroneous_information_across_multiple_languages-20241025121700"></span>Fixing erroneous information across multiple languages<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Fixing_erroneous_information_across_multiple_languages-20241025121700"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikimedia_Forum&action=edit&section=2" title="Edit section: Fixing erroneous information across multiple languages"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"><span class='ext-discussiontools-init-section-metaitem ext-discussiontools-init-section-timestampLabel'>Latest comment: <a href="#c-103.66.132.62-20241025125000-Xaosflux-20241025124500">29 days ago</a></span><span class='ext-discussiontools-init-section-metaitem ext-discussiontools-init-section-commentCountLabel'>3 comments</span><span class='ext-discussiontools-init-section-metaitem ext-discussiontools-init-section-authorCountLabel'>2 people in discussion</span></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-103.66.132.62-20241025121700-Fixing_erroneous_information_across_multiple_languages"></span>A user at <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Help_desk#Fixing_erroneous_information_across_multiple_languages." class="extiw" title="en:Wikipedia:Help desk">en help desk</a> advised this might be a place to ask. As stated at the help desk, an erroneous name spreaded presumably from enwiki to multiple other pages on other language wikis, a list that I made can be found <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Chinese_reusable_experimental_spacecraft#The_abbriviation_of_this_thing" class="extiw" title="en:Talk:Chinese reusable experimental spacecraft">here</a>. If there is a better place to ask, please direct me there, otherwise, I would like to ask for assistance from editors of those wikis to help fix the erroneous information, thank you. <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/103.66.132.62" title="Special:Contributions/103.66.132.62">103.66.132.62</a> <a href="https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Forum#c-103.66.132.62-20241025121700-Fixing_erroneous_information_across_multiple_languages" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">12:17, 25 October 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-103.66.132.62-20241025121700-Fixing_erroneous_information_across_multiple_languages"><span id="ooui-php-19" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button"><span class="oo-ui-iconElement-icon oo-ui-iconElement-noIcon oo-ui-image-progressive"></span><span class="oo-ui-labelElement-label">Reply</span><span class="oo-ui-indicatorElement-indicator oo-ui-indicatorElement-noIndicator oo-ui-image-progressive"></span></a></span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-103.66.132.62-20241025121700-Fixing_erroneous_information_across_multiple_languages"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Xaosflux-20241025124500-103.66.132.62-20241025121700"></span>It sounds like you know what is wrong, and what needs to be done to fix it? If so, just go make the changes - these are wiki's after all. — <a href="/wiki/User:Xaosflux" title="User:Xaosflux"><span style="color:#FF9933; font-weight:bold; font-family:monotype;">xaosflux</span></a> <sup><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Xaosflux" title="User talk:Xaosflux"><span style="color:#009933;">Talk</span></a></sup> <a href="https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Forum#c-Xaosflux-20241025124500-103.66.132.62-20241025121700" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">12:45, 25 October 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Xaosflux-20241025124500-103.66.132.62-20241025121700"><span id="ooui-php-20" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button"><span class="oo-ui-iconElement-icon oo-ui-iconElement-noIcon oo-ui-image-progressive"></span><span class="oo-ui-labelElement-label">Reply</span><span class="oo-ui-indicatorElement-indicator oo-ui-indicatorElement-noIndicator oo-ui-image-progressive"></span></a></span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Xaosflux-20241025124500-103.66.132.62-20241025121700"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-103.66.132.62-20241025125000-Xaosflux-20241025124500"></span>Main problem is that I don't speak those languages, so it is very difficult to do some of the changes myself.(for example on ar and fa, also I don't know what would be a proper translation in those languages, some pages needs to be moved, etc.) <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/103.66.132.62" title="Special:Contributions/103.66.132.62">103.66.132.62</a> <a href="https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Forum#c-103.66.132.62-20241025125000-Xaosflux-20241025124500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">12:50, 25 October 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-103.66.132.62-20241025125000-Xaosflux-20241025124500"><span id="ooui-php-21" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button"><span class="oo-ui-iconElement-icon oo-ui-iconElement-noIcon oo-ui-image-progressive"></span><span class="oo-ui-labelElement-label">Reply</span><span class="oo-ui-indicatorElement-indicator oo-ui-indicatorElement-noIndicator oo-ui-image-progressive"></span></a></span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-103.66.132.62-20241025125000-Xaosflux-20241025124500"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Wikipedia:2024_open_letter_to_the_Wikimedia_Foundation" data-mw-thread-id="h-Wikipedia:2024_open_letter_to_the_Wikimedia_Foundation-20241109203400"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Wikipedia:2024_open_letter_to_the_Wikimedia_Foundation-20241109203400"></span>Wikipedia:2024 open letter to the Wikimedia Foundation<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Wikipedia:2024_open_letter_to_the_Wikimedia_Foundation-20241109203400"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikimedia_Forum&action=edit&section=3" title="Edit section: Wikipedia:2024 open letter to the Wikimedia Foundation"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"><span class='ext-discussiontools-init-section-metaitem ext-discussiontools-init-section-timestampLabel'>Latest comment: <a href="#c-Commander_Keane-20241109203400-Wikipedia:2024_open_letter_to_the_Wikimedia_Foundation">13 days ago</a></span><span class='ext-discussiontools-init-section-metaitem ext-discussiontools-init-section-commentCountLabel'>1 comment</span><span class='ext-discussiontools-init-section-metaitem ext-discussiontools-init-section-authorCountLabel'>1 person in discussion</span></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Commander_Keane-20241109203400-Wikipedia:2024_open_letter_to_the_Wikimedia_Foundation"></span>The <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:2024_open_letter_to_the_Wikimedia_Foundation" class="extiw" title="en:Wikipedia:2024 open letter to the Wikimedia Foundation">2024 open letter to the Wikimedia Foundation</a> on English Wikipedia is open for signatures. My summary is that it is about concern over the Foundation considering disclosing identifying private information about volunteer editors to the Delhi High Court and the wider implications that may affect all Wikimedia contributors. <a href="/wiki/User:Commander_Keane" title="User:Commander Keane">Commander Keane</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Commander_Keane" title="User talk:Commander Keane">talk</a>) <a href="https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Forum#c-Commander_Keane-20241109203400-Wikipedia:2024_open_letter_to_the_Wikimedia_Foundation" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:34, 9 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Commander_Keane-20241109203400-Wikipedia:2024_open_letter_to_the_Wikimedia_Foundation"><span id="ooui-php-22" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button"><span class="oo-ui-iconElement-icon oo-ui-iconElement-noIcon oo-ui-image-progressive"></span><span class="oo-ui-labelElement-label">Reply</span><span class="oo-ui-indicatorElement-indicator oo-ui-indicatorElement-noIndicator oo-ui-image-progressive"></span></a></span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Commander_Keane-20241109203400-Wikipedia:2024_open_letter_to_the_Wikimedia_Foundation"></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="WMF_should_switch_from_X_to_Blue_Sky_or_Mastodon" data-mw-thread-id="h-WMF_should_switch_from_X_to_Blue_Sky_or_Mastodon-20241120070800"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-WMF_should_switch_from_X_to_Blue_Sky_or_Mastodon-20241120070800"></span>WMF should switch from X to Blue Sky or Mastodon<span data-mw-comment-end="h-WMF_should_switch_from_X_to_Blue_Sky_or_Mastodon-20241120070800"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikimedia_Forum&action=edit&section=4" title="Edit section: WMF should switch from X to Blue Sky or Mastodon"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"><span class='ext-discussiontools-init-section-metaitem ext-discussiontools-init-section-timestampLabel'>Latest comment: <a href="#c-Nosferattus-20241120070800-WMF_should_switch_from_X_to_Blue_Sky_or_Mastodon">3 days ago</a></span><span class='ext-discussiontools-init-section-metaitem ext-discussiontools-init-section-commentCountLabel'>1 comment</span><span class='ext-discussiontools-init-section-metaitem ext-discussiontools-init-section-authorCountLabel'>1 person in discussion</span></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Nosferattus-20241120070800-WMF_should_switch_from_X_to_Blue_Sky_or_Mastodon"></span>I would like to propose that the <a href="/wiki/Social_media" title="Social media">Wikimedia Foundation Communications Team</a> stop posting to X and switch to Blue Sky or Mastodon. The WMF's excuse has generally been "But we get a lot of engagement when we post to X." [paraphrasing] (1) That isn't even true any more. For the last 10 comments posted to X, the average number of comments was 7, the average number of reposts was 6, and the average number of likes was 27. That's hardly a rousing amount of engagement! Target had 2 million followers and they left. Stephen King had 7 million followers. The Guardian had over 10 million followers. In comparison the WMF has a paltry 600,000. Half of those are probably gone now anyway. (2) Even if the WMF had millions of followers and robust engagement, that would only be a stronger reason to leave. Every time they make a post, they are generating money for a platform that is about as counter to <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://wikimediafoundation.org/about/values/">our values</a> as possible, especially when it comes to spreading misinformation and hate speech. Couldn't we try something different? <a href="/wiki/User:Nosferattus" title="User:Nosferattus">Nosferattus</a> (<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Nosferattus&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User talk:Nosferattus (page does not exist)">talk</a>) <a href="https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Forum#c-Nosferattus-20241120070800-WMF_should_switch_from_X_to_Blue_Sky_or_Mastodon" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">07:08, 20 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Nosferattus-20241120070800-WMF_should_switch_from_X_to_Blue_Sky_or_Mastodon"><span id="ooui-php-23" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button"><span class="oo-ui-iconElement-icon oo-ui-iconElement-noIcon oo-ui-image-progressive"></span><span class="oo-ui-labelElement-label">Reply</span><span class="oo-ui-indicatorElement-indicator oo-ui-indicatorElement-noIndicator oo-ui-image-progressive"></span></a></span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Nosferattus-20241120070800-WMF_should_switch_from_X_to_Blue_Sky_or_Mastodon"></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Sign_up_for_the_language_community_meeting_on_November_29th,_16:00_UTC" data-mw-thread-id="h-Sign_up_for_the_language_community_meeting_on_November_29th,_16:00_UTC-20241121195300"><span id="Sign_up_for_the_language_community_meeting_on_November_29th.2C_16:00_UTC"></span><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Sign_up_for_the_language_community_meeting_on_November_29th,_16:00_UTC-20241121195300"></span>Sign up for the language community meeting on November 29th, 16:00 UTC<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Sign_up_for_the_language_community_meeting_on_November_29th,_16:00_UTC-20241121195300"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikimedia_Forum&action=edit&section=5" title="Edit section: Sign up for the language community meeting on November 29th, 16:00 UTC"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"><span class='ext-discussiontools-init-section-metaitem ext-discussiontools-init-section-timestampLabel'>Latest comment: <a href="#c-SSethi_(WMF)-20241121195300-Sign_up_for_the_language_community_meeting_on_November_29th,_16:00_UTC">1 day ago</a></span><span class='ext-discussiontools-init-section-metaitem ext-discussiontools-init-section-commentCountLabel'>1 comment</span><span class='ext-discussiontools-init-section-metaitem ext-discussiontools-init-section-authorCountLabel'>1 person in discussion</span></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-SSethi_(WMF)-20241121195300-Sign_up_for_the_language_community_meeting_on_November_29th,_16:00_UTC"></span>Hello everyone, </p><p>The next language community meeting is coming up next week, on November 29th, at 16:00 UTC (Zonestamp! For your timezone <<a class="external free" href="https://zonestamp.toolforge.org/1732896000">https://zonestamp.toolforge.org/1732896000</a>>). If you're interested in joining, you can sign up on this wiki page: <<a class="external free" href="https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Language_and_Product_Localization/Community_meetings#29_November_2024">https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Language_and_Product_Localization/Community_meetings#29_November_2024</a>>. </p><p>This participant-driven meeting will be organized by the Wikimedia Foundation’s Language Product Localization team and the Language Diversity Hub. There will be presentations on topics like developing language keyboards, the creation of the Moore Wikipedia, and the language support track at Wiki Indaba. We will also have members from the Wayuunaiki community joining us to share their experiences with the Incubator and as a new community within our movement. This meeting will have a Spanish interpretation. </p><p>Looking forward to seeing you at the language community meeting! Cheers, <a href="/wiki/User:SSethi_(WMF)" title="User:SSethi (WMF)">Srishti</a> <a href="https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Forum#c-SSethi_(WMF)-20241121195300-Sign_up_for_the_language_community_meeting_on_November_29th,_16:00_UTC" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:53, 21 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-SSethi_(WMF)-20241121195300-Sign_up_for_the_language_community_meeting_on_November_29th,_16:00_UTC"><span id="ooui-php-24" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button"><span class="oo-ui-iconElement-icon oo-ui-iconElement-noIcon oo-ui-image-progressive"></span><span class="oo-ui-labelElement-label">Reply</span><span class="oo-ui-indicatorElement-indicator oo-ui-indicatorElement-noIndicator oo-ui-image-progressive"></span></a></span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-SSethi_(WMF)-20241121195300-Sign_up_for_the_language_community_meeting_on_November_29th,_16:00_UTC"></span> </p>    </div><noscript><img src="https://login.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:CentralAutoLogin/start?type=1x1" alt="" width="1" height="1" style="border: none; position: absolute;"></noscript> <div class="printfooter" data-nosnippet="">Retrieved from "<a dir="ltr" href="https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikimedia_Forum&oldid=27842640">https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikimedia_Forum&oldid=27842640</a>"</div></div> <div id="catlinks" class="catlinks" data-mw="interface"><div id="mw-normal-catlinks" class="mw-normal-catlinks"><a href="/wiki/Special:Categories" title="Special:Categories">Categories</a>: <ul><li><a href="/wiki/Category:Wikimedia_Forum" title="Category:Wikimedia Forum">Wikimedia Forum</a></li><li><a href="/wiki/Category:Noticeboards" title="Category:Noticeboards">Noticeboards</a></li><li><a href="/wiki/Category:Communication" title="Category:Communication">Communication</a></li><li><a href="/wiki/Category:Meta-Wiki_organisation" title="Category:Meta-Wiki organisation">Meta-Wiki organisation</a></li><li><a href="/wiki/Category:Multilingualism" title="Category:Multilingualism">Multilingualism</a></li></ul></div></div> </div> </main> </div> <div class="mw-footer-container"> <footer id="footer" class="mw-footer" > <ul id="footer-info"> <li id="footer-info-lastmod"> This page was last edited on 23 November 2024, at 07:09.</li> <li id="footer-info-copyright">Text is available under the <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/deed.en">Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike License</a>; additional terms may apply. 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